Cool News
Score News on X-MEN and THE PATRIOT - UPDATED!
HARRY HERE... As I read the below 16 words... I'm not sure what he meant... But... I do know that Glen called me up to correct the notion that JOHN WILLIAMS IS.... DOING PATRIOT... and rather that he's 'ahem' In the running and that David Arnold isn't COMPLETELY out yet. So... In that case... it sort of sounds like... Well... maybe he'll fight Apollo and maybe he won't. The fun thing is... Devlin and Emmerich wanted Williams way back when on STARGATE... but weren't given the budget to afford him... So they gambled on this talented young composer named David Arnold... and created one helluva fine score. We'll keep an eye on this...
Hey folks, Harry here. The news concerning John Williams and Emmerich's THE PATRIOT has been floating about for a while now, but I do believe that that new site that is under the careful gaze of somebody named GLEN OLIVER (yeah... that Coaxial guy) called FilmForce.Net (yeah some of those TheForce.Net guys are in league with him too. Well, in a preview of coming glories they'll be bringing us, dropped the line that John Williams is set to score THE PATRIOT for Emmerich and Devlin because David Arnold is busy in England at the moment on something very dear to his heart. Now... while I was initially heartbroken at the concept of losing a new David Arnold score... My heart SOARED at the news of Williams. His score for 1941 is fun as hell, and I loved his AMISTAD score... both dealing with Patriotic and/or Early America stuff. HOWEVER... The news about Michael Kamen signing on with Bryan Singer for X-MEN in place of John Ottman is a fucking terrible blow in my opinion. Early gossip had Danny Elfman in place. Now... I have enjoyed Michael Kamen in the past... BUT there is an extreme chance that he might just phone this in. My
excitement level for this movie is dropping quickly because of this news. SCORE is of absolute CAPITOL IMPORTANCE for this movie. For me... the only flaw with THE IRON GIANT is the lack of a absolute CLASSIC score that every being on the planet would hum and say... "THE IRON GIANT" after a single bar. On the otherhand this is Kamen's chance to create a piece of music like Elfman's BATMAN or Williams' SUPERMAN that becomes one of the iconic film scores... Or... he could just phone it in. Here's the scoop...
Just happened to check out www.soundtrackmag.com where they've posted the following:
Soundtrackmag.com has confirmed that Michael Kamen has been signed to score the 20th Century Fox film THE X-MEN, directed by Bryan Singer. In addition we have received several reports that John Williams will be tapped to score the new Mel Gibson film THE PATRIOT.
Ummm...a Roland Emmerich film without a David Arnold score? Though John Williams is an exciting proposition, I smell trouble. Now on the subject of Michael Kamen; there's no doubt that he is one of the most talented composers out there. The problem I have with him is that his works lack a strong, hummible theme. And the X-Men must have a musical motif that instantaneously becomes synonomous with the characters, ala Elfman's Batman or Williams's Superman. Anyhow, just thought you might be curious.
The Egotist
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I don't like Kamen's work.
IMHO his only very good score was THE DEAD ZONE and some tracks from HIGHLANDER.
In THE IRON GIANT the only mediocre thing was the music. It has no themes.
Kamen is right for DIE HARD and LETHAL WEAPON, not for THE X-MEN.
Please, Mr. Singer, choose another composer, for the good health of your show.
Ciao from Italy. -
Get my Idol John Williams to do the score for X-men... and we're in business... GOD!... the man gave "Nixon" a score i still haven't forgotten... John Williams: Jaws, Superman, Star Wars, Forrest Gump, Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park, i could go on and on and on... Someone tell me that they wouldn't recognize the score to one of those films... Williams can MAKE a movie worth watching all by himself... C.K.
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This is bloody terrible. Can't they just get Danny Elfman to do it, that would be great!
and yeah, I'm first! -
I think that the X-Men could do with a really beautiful schwangy number from the likes of Celine Dion!! It would suit all of the TITanic lovers out there and bring a whole new audience for what looks like one of the FUCKIN best films this year.
Then again, why don't we all go to Waco and shoot ourselves in the heads!!
Come on David Arnold - he would be great for the X-Men after his successes with the Bond films - fuck Michael Kamen -
The only ones at his same level are Mancini and Hermann. Then Williams and Elfman (man, "Sleepy Hollow" just opened here and IT FUCKING ROCKS!!)
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First, the totally bland, fucking useless costumes and now this. Sure, Kamen can compose excellent incidental music, eg: Die Hard & Lethal Weapon, but he can't compose GRAND MELODIC THEMES. Kamen's scores are usually generic with little depth and texture. What a freakin disappointment. I'm trying really hard to stay open-minded about this film, but it aint easy. By the way, what the fuck is Singer smoking?
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any conductor that would work with scumbag past-their-prime losers like Aerosmith or Metallica, or have anything to do with a bird dropping like Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves isn't worth commenting on (how hypocritical I am). Michael Kamen is a loser who decided to gain popularity by working with music biz has-beens than composing serious scores for good films. Whoever suggested this guy work on X-Men has a dollar bill-wrapped dildo through his rectum, and should be drawn and quartered at the next sunrise.
John Williams may be good, but hey, he's not thrashing his grey mullet around in the new Metallica video for "No Leaf Clover". Kamen: Die, you fucking insult to orchestral music. -
He's worked with Pink Floyd and Bon Jovi as well. Actually, he did do one GREAT score, for Terry Gilliam's Brazil ... but that was mainly orchestral variations on a pre-existing song. Hmm. Oh, and The Dead Zone was good, but Cronenberg usually uses Howard Shore, who is the BEST guy around. As well as doing Cronenberg movies (can you imagine? Cronenberg: Well, it's about twin gynaecologists who are psycopathic and share a mistress / Shore: I'll have a score for you by tomorrow), he also did Burton's Ed Wood (better homage to monster movie music than Danny Elfman did for Mars Attacks) and David Fincher's The Game (really nasty and haunting). Oh well, I guess it's still possible that Kamen could do a good job. PLEASE, MICHAEL KAMEN, IF YOU'RE READING THIS, DON'T PHONE THIS SCORE IN! THE X-MEN IS TOO IMPORTANT A MOVIE TO US FANS TO HAVE A MEDIOCRE SCORE!
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Intruder! John Williams didn't do Forrest Gump... that was Alan Silvestri!
And btw Silvestri could do the X-Men soundtrack... he's great! -
I keep hearing a certain amount of hope in your scratchy little throat, Harry, but we all know that this movie has been lowballed from the get-go. After an article I read yesterday, I contacted a couple of contacts left at the Marvel offices where I used to freelance. They got to see about 15-20 minutes of stuff. They called it more of a behind the scenes thing. Two words were all I kept hearing, "THIS BLOWS"! These guys are first and foremos comic book fans and I can tell you NO ONE wants to see this movie succeed more than they do, anything to get the sales out of the shitter. Unfortunately this isn't going to happen. One guy told me this should end up on the shelf right next to the often bootlegged shit slinging contest that was the "Fantastic 4". Because of these reactions I hold out absolutely NO hope for this piece of flotsam and do hope that you take the blow now a little better. The music in this movie could be an old Winger song, it couldn't get any worse.
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When not simply phoning in scores as both Jerry Goldsmith and Ennio Morricone are known to do, these guys are still the masters out there. Listen to "Freud," "Star Trek: The Motion Picture," "Gremlins," "Twilight Zone: The Movie" or "L.A. Confidential" to get a feel for the "real" Goldsmith. As for Morricone, fuck, check out anything from "The Untouchables" to "Once Upon a Time in the West" to "Tie Me Up, Tie Me Down," to "The Bird With the Crystal Plumage" to the "Fistful of Dollars" trilogy. Either one, if so interested, could easily score the hell out "X-Men." But, if they didn't give a fuck, it could become the lackluster score to "Deep Rising" or the movie-killing score of "Wolf."
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He folks! Glen Oliver from FILMFORCE here! There seems to be some confusion re: the attribution of the David Arnold / John Williams information in Harry's post, I'm hoping he'll re-work his story to get it all sorted out. In the meantime, I thought I'd "cut and pate" a snippet of an e-mail I just sent to him, hopefully it will make things a little clearer: {{{"FilmForce (http://www.filmforce.ign.com) **does not** indicate John Williams will be scoring "The Patriot". FilmForce indicates John Williams is "in the running" to score the film, and that Mr. Arnold is still very much a contender to score "The Patriot" as well. The point of our story was that the only solid news re: "The Patriot" score at the moment was the possibility Mr. Arnold wouldn't be scoring a major Centropolis release for the first time in the company's history. Past that, nothing has been set in stone, which I felt we'd reflected rather clearly in our piece. The source of the confusion? Our facts seem to be getting mixed-up with another site called soundtrackmag.com (http://www.soundtrackmag.com), which *has* indicated Mr. Arnold is definitely off the project -- and has characterized Mr. William's involvement as a done deal. Again, FilmForce has only indicated this is a *possible scenario* -- and FilmForce believes saying anything more certain about "The Patriot" score at this moment would be premature, at best.}}} Anyways, so there you go. Thanks for your attention, and all the best! - Glen Oliver, FilmForce (http://www.filmforce.ign.com)
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As I've said before on the Gladiator trailer talkback, the new Conan movie talkback and countless other talkbacks, BASIL PELDOURIS' CONAN SCORE IS THE BEST THING SINCE THEY INVENTED SLICED BREAD! The theme tune from it should be every country's national anthem, the soundtrack album should be in everybody's CD player, Todd should stop writing about THE IRON GIANT and start writing about the Conan soundtrack instead, and Conan the Barbarian should be reissued as soon as possible in a spanking new print with crystal clear sound! MY GOD I LOVE THAT MUSIC
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Pick up the soundtrack from BRAZIL. Yes, he was working with a pre-established piece, but his permutations and arrangements of it are utterly brilliant. He should do OK with THE X-MEN.
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And here...amid all of the early reports that this movie was going to suck the Incredible Hulk's ass...I kept clinging to the notion that "at least it will have a fantastic Danny Elfman score." My dreams are shattered. There is nothing left to look forward to. I am going to crawl into my old X-Men comics and drown my sorrows.
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Listen to the Dawn of the Dead soundtrack and tell me this sort of thing wouldn't go extremely well with an X-Men movie. Or maybe I'm just weird...
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that the only time Montag606 posts on *any* subject is when he says something negative about THE PATRIOT? gotta ax to grind, bubby? somebody step on your little toesys? your 30 seconds on film get cut 7 years ago and your still upset about it????
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Here's a quote from someone who was on the set of THE PATRIOT:
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I mean, he's a superhero too, y'know!
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Kamen's Robin Hood theme was great, the only good part of that movie. I don't see a reason to despair just yet...Jimmer was slagging Alan Silvestri as being generic. I must disagree. Back to the Future I,II,III, Forrest Gump, Fandango, and Father of the Bride are all very distinctive, terrific scores. He is one of the best working today. Danny Elfman is a great composer, no doubt, but I find a lot of his work is very derivative of itself. His scores for Batman, Dick Tracy, Men in Black, Addams Family, even the Simpsons Theme are all very similar: The oompa-oompa base line and and a lot of dark brass sounds. I wish he would expand his sound a bit more, as he did with his scores for Good Will Hunting and Midnight Run. John Williams is a God among men. He is without peer.
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With the exception of the first Die Hard, and parts of Robin Hood, Kamen's scores have been unexceptional. However, I'm not sure if the X-Men needs a hummable theme ala Superman or Batman. The fact that you have more than one protagonist might not justify a single hero theme. A more subtle, Matrix type score would be more appropriate. So where the hell is Don Davis? You'd think after Universal Soldier: The Return he'd jump at this movie. Kamen's just too bland. Also, though I'm generally not a fan of techno music scores, I do think a film like this could support a less traditional film score rather well. Just please don't use the Propellerheads. They've been done to death already!!!
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...was one of the best scores I have ever heard in my life. The recurring themes, such as the ones used during the opening credits and the botched Kobayashi assassination scenes, are among the few moments from any movie score that I find constantly wafting through my head. Then again, perhaps that's because I'm sincerely fucked up. By the way, since someone mentioned Orbital, has anyone heard the soundtrack for The Beach yet? It is fucking SUBLIME! Orbital remixes Angelo Badalamenti, new songs from Faithless, Leftfield, Underworld, and (Oh thank you Jesus in Heaven) NEWORDER! Plus, although the idea of Sugar Ray covering Brian Eno by way of Jimmy Buffett sounds completely revolting, the result is actually one of the best songs I've heard all year. Do yourself a favor and check this CD out (even though I still believe that the movie will suck).
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He's no John Williams, but I think his style is great for The X-Men.
The Die Hard & Lethal Weapon tunes were great. -
Just be thankful that their not going to throw in some Britney Spears, Madonna, Korn, N'Sync, Third Eye Blind, Blink 182, Sugar Ray... You get the idea. Come on baby, come on, whose your favorite New Kid, huh? Mmmm do you like Donnie?
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My love for Poledouris' Conan score knows no bounds, but he wouldn't be right for the X-Men. Offhand, I know he did Robocop, Starship Troopers, maybe Hunt for Red October(?), and I think he's just too brassy and bombastic for the X-Men. Danny Elfman is a poor choice too. Again, great composer, but not necessarily the guy you want on EVERY superhero movie. His music has too much gothic fairy tale ambience. John Williams, were he available, might be able to pull it off. In his heyday, he had no peer for scoring action flicks, but of late he's seemed pretty watered-down (see 'Saving Private Ryan'). Williams' last great score was for JFK. Now every man and his brother loves to criticize James Horner, but his work speaks for itself: Aliens, Star Trek II, Braveheart, Glory, and Mask of Zorro, to name a few. He'd be my off-hand pick. Hmm...anybody know anything about the guy who scored Singer's The Usual Suspects, John Ottman? That had some quite memorable themes, enough to compell me to pick up the CD. And he's worked with Singer before...
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I see no reason why he shouldn't lend his talents to THE X-MEN. I love the theme to ROBIN HOOD (though I loathe the movie,) and enjoy his HUDSON HAWK score, too. Also, if I was a betting man (and, as my many broken fingers and thrice-broken nose bear out, I am,) I'd say that there absolutely will be an X-MEN CD featuring "hot new tracks" from Korn, Blink 182, and a reunited Pure Prarie League.
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Yeah, Poledouris fucking rocks, but I have to agree with an earlier poster that Kamen is merely competent as is Silvestri. The score to "X-Men" should be Elfman if they want a good film, but after "Sleepy Hollow's" score, which I wasn't impressed with at all, it would be interesting to see what Elfman does next. Elfman is the most interesting composer in film today, honestly, but his stuff for "Dead Presidents," "Sleepy Hollow," and "Mission: Impossible" were hardly as memorable as "Batman" or any of the other scads of great work he's done (even "MIB"). I think Poledouris would do wonders for "X-Men," actually. Kamen will just be a suck-tologist (yes, that makes no sense).
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I heard the same about Pure Prairie League, something about a Pure Prairie League - 10cc mega-group getting together with Ronnie James Dio singing on the bridge halfway through the song. The track's being written by the same guy who wrote the Celine Dion song for "Titanic" and will be produced by Don Was and Daniel Lanois. If I'm not incorrect, they'll be recording it in a school bus on the outskirts of Amsterdam just "for the effect."
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! NOT MICHAEL KAMEN!!!!
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Harry, why would you mention Williams' scores to bombs like 1941 and Amistad and not his more famous scores for films like Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan and, oh yeah, Star Wars? Williams is one of the great musical minds of the 20th century and that ain't hyperbole. The scores for the aforementioned films, especially Star Wars, have become integral parts of American pop culture. Personally, I thought the SPR score was one of the best and most underrated scores of the past few years. It is not only one of the most hummable scores I've ever heard but also sounds a bit like a funeral hymn, which was perfect for that film. Other great scores you'll find for The Piano, Braveheart and Leaving Las Vegas(if you listen carefully, the lyrics of Sting's background music comment on what is going on in the movie.) Scores are just as important as the acting and directing becuase movies are a complete sensory experience, meaning we hear them as much as we see them.
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i am telling you that this giant robot is the musical mastermind of the universe. so lets all join hands and sway to the tunes of musical giant as storm causes a hurricane or something lik that.
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Hey guys, we all know that we want John Williams to score it. He's really great with character themes and emotional type scores. But you gotta realize that this kind of composer is worth way too much money. X-men can only afford around 1 million I read somewhere on the internet. So i'm gonna give this new composer a chance even though I really hated the Leathal Weapon and Die hard scores. So i'll wait until the movie comes out and see if he pulled it off. I really hope that he can create memorable character themes for at least Wolverine, Rogue and of course the X-men team music.
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Harry -
To some degree I agree with you concerning the Iron Giant score. On the other hand much of the film-going audience is to 'melody' dependant. Having a great melody is not the only determining factor in a great score. Be that as it may, I believe Mr. Kamen to be one of the most underrated composers working today. Contrast the rock/jazz-fusion of the Lethal Weapon films with the classic symphony of Mr. Holland's Opus. Or contrast the driving era music form Robin Hood to the much of the soaring fanfare from Highlander. I concur with your comments that this could be Kamen's Superman or Batman. His break out film is still on the horizon.
Thanks,
John Kelly -
Sorry about that earlier blank glitch. Yeah, I have noticed that Montag606 always has to mouth off about Emmerich/Devlin. Only thing I can figure, is it must be personal. He/she probably was an extra that didn't make the final cut in ID4, so now it's war. And, no, Montag606 - I don't care to get into a pissing match here in Talk Back. I just wish that if you had something to say - negative or not - at you'd least back it up with FACTS, not some personal b.s. diatribe. On a separate note (all puns intended), I think the prospect of a Williams score on "The Patriot" would be manna from heaven. The epic scale that this film will offer definitely deserves the Williams "royal carpet" to usher it into the theaters.
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I think the signing of Michael Kamen as composer for the X-Men movie is a major mistake. His music whilst sometimes nice, just isn't strong enough for this type of movie. I would enroll the best soundtrack composer there is and give him free run on the movie score - JOHN BARRY!! I know he can be a bit of a handful now, but the man has created some of the most famous and beautiful scores ever. If he won't do it or no-one agrees, then I would opt for a newish composer named Craig Armstrong - he was the composer for Romeo and Juliet, Plunkett and Macleane, Best Laid Plans and The Bone Collector...he has dramtic flair, but can also introduce a raw, techno side to his music, which is just superb...he is by far the best of the new composers around and will be a name on everyone's lips before long....that and he is Scottish, so he deserves a chance just because of that!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Does anyone know of any sites which detail production costs of studio movies? There are tons of box office listings, but based on an initial search, I haven't been able to find any (free) film sites which list this kind of info. I'd especially be interested in getting breakdowns of the production costs on studio flicks (how much did FX cost, costumes, production design, above-the-line and below-the-line talent, etc.). Can anyone help out? Thanks.
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I just got off the phone with my friend Chris McQuarrie about a couple hours ago. As many of you may know, Chris is very close to Bryan Singer and tells me things could not be going any smoother up there in Toronto in regards to the film (except for the fact that it's freezing up there). Singer has been especially pleased with the performances of the cast. They KNEW they were gonna get top-notch turns from the likes of McKellen and Stewart, but they were very pleasantly surprised with the likes of Marsden, Jackman, and Rojman Stamos. He said the art direction is utterly fantastic. Singer and his production company really did a bang-up job with the city scenery. He was laughing about that 'giant laser' plot rumor (which I'm sure all of you know by now IS NOT true). And he really thinks dedicated X-fans are gonna be shocked to see how cool the uniforms look in action sequences. I asked if he could EMail me a picture of Anna Paquin in costume, and he said he will try to get a hold of one. Another interesting note.....When they are just hanging out, Chris told me that he and Singer are constantly talking about the film's sequel (something they are both POSITIVE will happen). I asked him in what regard, and he told me mostly in context of new characters, such as Nightcrawler and Beast. I asked him about Colossus and he said that would take great creativity on the part of the FX people, but was worth considering. Finally, I asked Chris about DeSantos' and Donner's choice of Michael Kamen to score, and he said that Kamen was Singer's second choice after Elfman (take that as you will). He also had no info of when the trailer is due to come out. I'm sure some of you will doubt my association with Chris and 20th Century Fox....but that's ok....I love reading the talk-backs of you skeptics anyway. Take care everyone!
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Just a quick message regarding another composer I just remembered would be excellent for the X-Men movie - Carter Burwell....he has the John Barry style of composing, but where JB no longer has big action pieces in his scores, Burwell is the perfect guy to take that over - see Mercury Rising....It should be one of the three I have mentioned....well I can but hope!!
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You are obviously a man of wealth and taste, and I would like to give you and others another small piece of information of Mr. Craig Armstrong: he is the composer of all the orchestral music used by the reknowned British group known as Massive Attack. This group is by far one of the most amazing and innovative forces in music today, and their 1991 album Blue Lines still sounds ahead of (our) time. As for Mr. Burwell, he is also the composer for the music of Three Kings (one of my favorite scores of 1999) as well as all of the Coen Bros. films. Finally, may I throw one last name into the ring: that of MOBY. Has anyone heard is albums "Everything is Wrong" or "Play"? Somebody give this guy free reign over any musical score he wants, and quickly.
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It was Marc Shaiman! And Kamen`s "Brazil" score is one of my all-time favorites.
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Harry, first of all, I am a big fan of your site, and I read it every day, a few times a day. Second of all, I am an aspiring film composer who is just breaking into some independent films. I loved Iron Giant as much as you did, maybe more. But I disagree with you that Michale Kamen's score wasn't up to par. I'm sick of the prerequisite for action/Sci-fi films to be that it must be overly thematic and bombastic! IMHO, Kamen does a wonderful job of creating a picturesque score that is musically brilliant (I would say the best of his carrer), following the mood changes in the picture and heighhtening the climax. For him to come on board the X-Men would hardly be a 'fucking blow,' and I cannot believe that you of all people would say that!!!! You, who is almost always open-minded! You, who stands up for movies that other people love to trash! You, who, I had thought, watch and listen with an open mind. I have defended you several times in the past, Harry. Don't make me out to be a fool for doing so.
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...who insist you know all about Michael Kamen, you know dick! He has been in the business for over 20 years, and he has a more well-rounded career than any one else OUT THERE!!!!! He did the orchestrations and conducted the orchestra for "The Wall," has recently worked with Metallica, and has extensive classicla training. Sure, he doesn't have that many scores that stand out, but check out IG and the way he works in the 'Superman' motif, the music for the climax, and the opening sequence music. Why the hell does everyone want John Williams doing everything. The man is a genius, and I respect him immensely, but if he did every God Damn decent score out there, every thing would sound the SAME!!!!!!
BTW, to whomever was inquiring about John Barry, he did 'Dances with Wolves' in 90 or 91.. whenever that movie came out. -
I don't see any reason to start sounding alarm bells here. His score for South Park is perfect for that film, I don't see any reason why he can't switch genres and do a good job here with X-Men.
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If Singer doesn't like the score, he can get somebody better than Kamen--it happens all the time, and quickly. I agree with Harry, Kamen is WRONG WRONG WRONG! He is just not devoted to it, and although I think that Kamen did a fine job with Iron Giant, I admit that it was not as memorable as it should have been. Kamen doesn't do theme music very well. Leathal Weapon, Die Hard, neither had memorable themes as much as styles. Style over substance is the way Kamen has gone, and danit, this just sucks that HE was given the score to such a cool movie. David Arnold is not doing the Patriot, so why didn't they get him for X-Men? Godzilla was not a failure for the score, don't blame him for that, Hollywood!
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You are absolutely right, Marc Shaiman scored Addams family. I would have to say, however, that his score was rather Elfman-ish. Allow me to clarify an earlier poster's (houndog's) mistake. Kamen did not do the score for this summer's Southpark:BLU. Shaiman did. Shaiman is a great composer (City Slickers, The American President, Misery) who definitely deserves an Oscar nod for his work on the Southpark film. It seems a few of us have mistaken his work for someone else's today. Sorry.
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Feb 02, 2000 3:55:26 PM CST
"Robin Hood" score great, but Kamen usually produces very weak,
by caligari
'Nuff said.
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Any of these three would do a good job scoring the X-men movie. My personal choice would have be be Elfman, though. My adoration of him goes way back to Oingo Boingo.
-Allie -
Man, does your pissin' and moanin' ever end? Did Emmerich or Devlin wrong you in another life? I'm all for jumping on films/filmmakers that try and shove dung our way, but with you and Centroplois, it never ends. And FYI, I don't work for Centropolis. Never met Roland or Dean. Don't even own any of their films. (not my taste) I'm only defending them because people like you vomit out this venom (see any of your above posts) for no reason. Everybody has different tastes. Yours are no better than mine. We get your point already, ok? Jeeze, dude, go take that anger and do something constructive, with it. Fight for the homeless or take on city hall. (i.e., get a life.)
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Which is really titled "URBAN LEGENDS: THE FINAL CUT". So evidently he thinks working on that horror/slasher is more important than another collaboration with Singer. Forgive me, but if YOU were an award-winning young film composer, would you take a pass on X-MEN just so you could direct a non-sequel sequel to a bad B-movie?? I sense a disturbance in the Force. So what if Bryan Singer is a bad tempered ego-freak and difficult to work with, like everybody in L.A. says... STILL, I wouldn't pass up getting my name on the X-MEN poster and contributing to the most eagerly anticipated film of the year! Not for something so low-profile as URBAN LEGEND 2 which may end up straight-to-video. Yowza!
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Kamen could do it. There are some really dark musical moments in Event Horizon (lets not speak of the movie itself) that would translate to the feel of xmen. Hes certainly capable of pulling out that feel. As per Williams, hes done great work, but i just cant look past the degree he 'Burrows' from other composers. At least horner rips himself off more then anyone else. Williams SPR = Coplands 'Lincoln Portrait'. And Elfmans Batman couldnt be much closer to Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky. 80% of Elfmans work sounds just like "Battle on the ice" from said work. Im digressing, for X-men to work, there must be a dark strife ridden feel, grounded in a rough real gritty feel. If its camp ridden dreck like Batman & Robin, no score will matter. Morricone or Pouledouris would be excellent choices.
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I am very sorry but I'm sick and tired of the repeated insults sent in their direction. I am a filmmaker myself and can easily tell they have put a lot of work and effort into their films. I'll never say that they deserve an Oscar but I'll sure as hell never say there not any good. I'm setting myself up for insults right now but I really enjoyed Godzilla. Anyone who didn't was expecting another film--what film I don't know. I would be proud to someday work with them, and if that doesn't show my respect nothing does. I am eagerly looking forward to Patriot, and you should too. On the X-Men front, while I love Kamen's scores I have a deep feeling he isn't right for this film. Harry explained my opinion already, but I would love to see (hear) a score by Don Davis, Hans Zimmer (Media Ventures collaborating would be better actually) or Danny Elfman. --BenDavid (M:I-2 -- A BDG Fansite http://www.angelfire.com/az/ScarabNET/main2mi.html)
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If you want to talk about film music ripping off film music, then go ahead and say that people like Prokofiev and Shostakovich had their "influences." Hell, modern composers like Henryk Gorecki rip off Shostakovich and Penderecki right and left, but who cares? In film, everything is up for grabs and I feel that it should be that way. As classical composition in American becomes so marginalized that more people can hum the theme from "Star Wars" (not knocking "Star Wars," of course) than Beethoven's 7th, well, film music will become bigger and bigger, but at the same time, more and more derivative. Except in rare instance like how popular musics are being used to score films like "Splendor" or "Pi."
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Man. I don't believe all of the negativity I'm seeing here. Okay, I take that back. Seeing POSITIVE attitudes here would be the surprising thing.
As far as Michael Kamen's scoring ability goes, all you bashers can go fuck yourselves, alright? This man has the ability to successfully underscore dramatic tension and emotional situations far better--that's FAR better--than many other composers. Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, Highlander, Robin Hood:Prince of Thieves, The Dead Zone, The Iron Giant-- all GREAT scores. And about an identifiable main theme? Maybe hard to find in Die Hard or Lethal Weapon, but if you asked me, I'd be able to hum the main theme from Highlander and Robin Hood. Danny Elfman? Come on. I guarantee that he would drop back into the Batman/Darkman/The Flash mode of scoring, since it's a superhero film. I'm not saying that he is a BAD composer, or that those are bad scores, I'm just saying that I don't want to hear them AGAIN! They all sound so similar it's not even funny.
Don't bash Michael Kamen. He has created many fine scores. And he is capable of creating musical identity for this film.
Could anyone sense the imposing threat of nuclear armageddon at the hands of an insane President Greg Stillson once Johnny Smith shook his hand? I did.
Did anyone feel the exhilaration of the Quickening as Connor MacLeod felt the heart of the stag beating, his blood coursing through his veins as he sprinted across the seashore of the Scottish Highlands? I did.
Did anyone clench their fists at the hopelessness of being outmanned and outgunned by General MacAlister and Mr. Joshua at the Libertyville flats? Or feel the rage at learning that Riggs' wife was murdered, then finding Rika's lifeless body at the bottom of the pier? I did.
Was anyone on the edge of their seats when the Huey gunships were closing in on Nakatomi Plaza, and John McClane had run out of places to go? I was.
Did anyone shed a tear for the Iron Giant when he chose to sacrifice himself for the people of Rockwell? I did. And Michael Kamen helped me shed it. The same way he helped each of the scenes above seem that much stronger.
If the X-movie contains any semblance of dramatic elements like these, then that's why I think he's as good a choice as anyone. -
Alright everybody, get a grip. You guys have been raggin' on X -men from the get-go and it's really starting to get pathetic. First It was outrage that Bryan Singer would be directing, then Horror when they didn't use Joss Whedon's draft. THEN, you gripe and groan when Hugh Jackman is cast as Wolverine. Of course, then the costume pics are released and you scream bloody murder once again. Now the score? FUCK THE SCORE. I gotta tell you all, that with your attitudes, you will NEVER be satisfied with the outcome. If it isn't one thing, it's another. Besides, Danny Elfman makes the same friggin' score for every film he makes. I didn't even know he made the music for Sleepy Hollow but I knew it as soon as I heard it in the first 5 minutes. Seriously though, in your minds, the film is already a failure, so either forget about it or accept the news you hear. I'm done...
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I will wretch if the movie does not maintain the theme song established on the animated series. That was sooo perfect. In fact, I am going to e-mail Michael Kamen right now to voice that urgence!
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I got to admit that the score for The Dead Zone was a powerful score indeed. And the ending music of The Iron Giant, when all the pieces of the robot are finding thier way back to him, almost made me cry like a friggin baby. What a beautifull piece of music. I hope there are parts of the X-men that made me feel that way.
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So fuckin' what if Kamen/Williams/Elfman or Kenny G does the score....if they don't fill it up with some high octane juice pumping tunes that capture the Zeitgeist of the period and the high action visuals, a la Matrix and Ruz Lola, then it'll be shite anyway....Get David Holmes, BT or Aphex Twin to do it, but tell them the direction and let them loose.....
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Now before anyone shits a brick and says, "Phillip Glass...what the hell are you on," I'd like to say that my first choice of composer is Berkhard Dallwitz. The guy's fresh and oh so inventive. Give the guy the chance to blow us away a second time. The opening piano piece to The Truman Show is amazingly simplistic but one of the best composed filmic pieces of the decade. Also, kudos to everyone who's suggesting Basil Poledouris, I mean, after all, both him and Singer went to USC. Morricone would be cool too.
My final suggestions(After Dallwitz):
1) Get Maurice Jarre and tell him to Lawrence of Arabia his ass.
2) Get Wendy Carlos (Walter, to those who knew him before the sex reassignment) to compose something '00s. No switched on classical this time. When it comes to mood, just listen to The Shining. Spooky. Love to see some Carlos action music.
Here are my reasons for not wanting to see Williams do The Patriot:
1) The man desperately needs his score to Episode II to be better than the last one. I say he should starting working now, before he even sees a script.
2) David Arnold=Stargate. David Arnold=British. Who fought the Americans in the Revolutionary War? Uh huh.
3) Williams=Stepmom
I love his work, don't get me wrong. But I can just hear the obligatory drum beat, yankee doodle dandy music now.
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just go and see american movie. it will kick the shit out of the patriot any day. by the way, roland emmerich sucks (but, i did like independence day and stargate).
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I totally forgot about Shaiman`s work on the "South Park" movie! I don`t really remember the score itself, but the SONGS were friggin` great! A hilarious kick-in-the-balls to every sappy crappy Disney sing-along.
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I'm tired of hear people trashing Elfman's job.
You guys don't know how much various his music can be.
You've listen to only a few of his scores and really cannot imagine how talented the man is.
His style is changed a lot since BATMAN or DARKMAN: he's now a mature and complex composer.
I've heard someone proposing Zimmer... That's not a composer! He's an arrogant impostor! He made his own "musical factory"...
All of his musicians sound the same... They're cloning themself day after day.
In any case, I don't think Elfman never score THE X-MEN. Instead, he's a probable choice for SPIDER-MAN if Raimi doesn't loose his mind! ;)
I really hope Singer changes idea about Kamen. I pray the director can choose a more talented and creative musician for the score of this long awaited film.
If not, I hope Kamen will be blessed by Heaven with some genial ideas for the show.
Ciao from Italy. -
What do you care if that guy is arrogant or whatever. Don't you think it's the music that counts? I think he did some great scores.
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I never trashed him. In fact, I enjoy his work greatly. Pee-Wee, Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, Mars Attacks, Men in Black, Family Dog, and lately,
Instinct and A Simple Plan! I just don't think he's the man for this show. He's done his bit for the superhero genre. Now he should stick to what he does best--the surreal, the macabre, and the gothic fable. Sleepy Hollow? A fine score, the ideal composer. A Simple Plan? Very different sound, and that's good. But think about the material. Burton's twisted world, twice removed from our own. Raimi's morality play, told in an almost surrealistic Coen Bros.-esque mold. I think he thrives in this type of material. It suits him.
And I have to agree with Tyler. Zimmer has made some really good music in the past, whether he has created a "music factory" or not. While we're on the subject, I'll toss out one of my favorite "theme" composers('though his body of varied work is not all that large)--Joseph LoDuca. Highly underrated composer with a flair for the heroic. He'd definitely create a memorable "X-Men theme". -
I never trashed him. In fact, I enjoy his work greatly. Pee-Wee, Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, Mars Attacks, Men in Black, Family Dog, and lately,
Instinct and A Simple Plan! I just don't think he's the man for this show. He's done his bit for the superhero genre. Now he should stick to what he does best--the surreal, the macabre, and the gothic fable. Sleepy Hollow? A fine score, the ideal composer. A Simple Plan? Very different sound, and that's good. But think about the material. Burton's twisted world, twice removed from our own. Raimi's morality play, told in an almost surrealistic Coen Bros.-esque mold. I think he thrives in this type of material. It suits him.
And I have to agree with Tyler. Zimmer has made some really good music in the past, whether he has created a "music factory" or not. While we're on the subject, I'll toss out one of my favorite "theme" composers('though his body of varied work is not all that large)--Joseph LoDuca. Highly underrated composer with a flair for the heroic. He'd definitely create a memorable "X-Men theme". -
any body think about
maybe using Philip Glass to score X men. I think his music would give the movie a hypnotic yet exhilirating feel that you don't often get in sci-fi/fantasy films.
as for The Patriot, james Horner and john williams seems to be too obvious a choice.
what about john brion who just did an amazing job w/ Magnolia or thomas newman who seems to be the guy to go to lately. and what about eliot gouldenthal (sp)
has anyone heard his oratorio "Fire Paper Water"
he uses a bit of schoenburgesque serialism that would be perfect for x-men, not so much the patriot
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If Kamen is doing it, Kirk Hammet has been quoted in saying he'd help Kamen with any soundtrack, no matter how big or small the job. Maybe Metallica would contribute in some capacity... I'm giddy just thinking about it!
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The light in my eyes fades with each successive blurb regarding the progress of the X-Men movie. The X-Men and their spinoff titles constitute a milestone in the comics industry, and they are my favorite reads. I've been a lifelong fan, and as this film goes I've been bitterly disappointed each step of the way. However, I remind myself of the excitement and anticipation with which I walked into Star Wars: Episode One; and I remind myself of feeling sodomized as I left the theater. Let's face it: none of us can predict how this movie is going to turn out. Let's just cross our fingers that all of the elements somehow come together, and see what happens. As Episode One proved in more ways than should have been possible, the actual flick can surprise you. Don't believe the hype. Selah.
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Sorry, but It's hard to explain what I think in English.
I was meaning that, for his own admission, Zimmer is not even able to write notes on a score.
All of his music sounds really the same. One of the few I liked was THE PRINCE OF EGYPT, because it was not the same "Zimmer March" of always. Someone here told Elfman is repetetive... And so, what can we say about Zimmer?
About his arrogance... A guy who create a "music factory" of his clones is a killer of the art. Listen to Harry Gregson-Williams, Nick Glennie Smith, John Powell, Trevor Rabin, etc... ALL THE SAME MUSIC!!! And when they try to do something different (as in ANTS where they copy Elfman's style), they imitate other more talented composers. If that is the future of movie music we are going to be really disappointed.
Sorry for my poor English.
Ciao from Italy. -
My English isn't that great either Simon, but here goes:
Well ok I have to agree the music from Zimmer (and his "students") sounds the same a lot. But I like the Zimmer style music and the music isn't so much the same that is bothers me.
The Rock Soundtrack (he did that with Harry Gregson-Williams & Nick Glennie Smith) had some great music I think. But that was also the first soundtrack that interested me, so maybe I like it because of the nostalgia. :) -
I agree with you darthvegas - I have been a fan of Craig Armstrong when he was working with Massive Attack and others i.e. Madonna. But his album The Space Between Us, was an excellent, well crafted piece of music. Different styles, from dance to film score, the album had everything. Moby is also a name I look for - his latest album Play, has to be one of the best albums of 1999 (that and Travis's album) as it also contains different styles and some of the most lovely pieces of music I have heard outside of a film score in a long time. Carter Burwell is a younger John Barry - and I don't think I can say anything else, which would prove how good a composer he is than that.....
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Williams's score to 1941 is one of his BEST! Don't confuse the crap on screen with the sound in your speakers.
Get the DVD and click on the SOUNDTRACK ONLY option. The end credits are about the best Johnny's ever done. (well, except for the Lost in Space and Time Tunnel themes.)
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