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Andolusion Dreamer raves about U-571 Test Screening in Sacramento Last Night!!!
Hey folks, Harry here.... Maaaan... Being a submarine film lover from way way waaaaay back. You see... My Uncle has been a Commanding Officer on a U.S. Submarine ever since I was a kid. He even took me in it once up in Norfolk... and I got to look at the nuclear missles and just have that... "Does this mean I can glow in the dark now?" look on my face. But he used to tell me stories about the early days of Submarine warfare... and then when I first saw DAS BOOT... I imagined that that was the 'day to day life' of my uncle. Naive Harry.... Hmmm... not much has changed. Personally, this is a film I've been dying to see... as I have felt that after BREAKDOWN, this director, Jonathon Mostow, was meant for pretty darn wonderful things.... I loved BREAKDOWN btw... it had problems... but it also kicked ass. Well, here's that lucky devil.... Andolusion Dreamer...
Harry - just returned from a special screening of a new movie called U-571
here in Sacramento - a film that screams DAS BOOT, but has a little feeling
of THE HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER and CRIMSON TIDE. Matthew McConaughey, Bill
Paxton, Harvey Keitel, Jon Bon Jovi(should I keep going?), the guy who plays
Dr. Dave from ER and the fake-polio victim guy from SOMETHING ABOUT MARY all
star in this film. I'm sure I'm leaving others out but just on that cast
alone, you get a feel of how good the movie could be. Well - it was better!
The film takes place during World War II in the height of the Nazi U-boat
onslaught that is happening in the Atlantic. You see, the Nazis have this
secret code that the Allies are unable to break and they're pretty much on
the verge of losing the war. They know they must somehow get their hands on
one of the decoders. Well, you just can't pick up a Nazi decoder at you
corner Radio Shack - they're on the Nazi's U-boats - and that's where our
American submarine crew comes in. Not only do they have to attempt the
capture of the top-secret decoder, but they also have to do it without the
enemy's knowledge (bring in the crescendo!).
The film starts out with a battle between a Nazi U-boat and the Allied
forces. The U-boat is able to sink the Allied boat, but is disabled in the
process. On board this U-boat is the Enigma - THE encryption decoder of the
Nazis. And here this U-boat sits completely dead in the water, the German
crew waiting for their ride home. Somehow, the American special intelligence
forces are able to find this information out and entrust the help of a
reluctant Bill Paxton and Matthew McConaughey and their submarine crew. Led
by Marine special intelligence officer David Keith, they are able to take
over the disabled U-boat and intercept the Enigma - but not without some
extraordinary and spoiler-filled scenes that set the film's roller-coaster,
edge of your seat, white knuckled (insert any other descriptive metaphor)
story. And here's a little hint - a couple of characters are killed
in this scene - something that really surprised and caught me off guard - and
killed in very graphic war-like ways.
Matthew McConaughey is great in this film as Bill Paxton's first in charge.
His intensity is very believable. You find out that he is passed up to
command his own sub and realizes the decision-making breaker was that of his
current captain, Paxton. Harvey Keitel plays an older officer who is happy in
his current position and is more like a mentor than a submissive to his
commanding officer, McConaughey. And Jon Bon Jovi plays Matthew's good friend
and Sergeant. And he really does a great job of acting in this film - another
thing I was surprised at. All in all, the casting was perfect for this film.
I kind of got the feel of watching SAVING PRIVATE RYAN where you had a great
famous lead actor and a superb, but not as well known, supporting cast. U-571
has this element to it.
But what I liked most about this movie was the way it was filmed. Close,
intense shots are throughout the film, but there are also those wide
beautiful shots that tell the story without words. The battle scenes are
extremely well done with this kind of filmmaking. For instance, one scene has
a Nazi Destroyer above the American submarine. The Destroyer begins to drop
depth charges into the water, which completely surround the submarine - a
scene where you feel that all is going to be over rather soon for the
American crew. Then it will jump to the panicked look of one of crew who
hears the splashes and slowly pull out to show the rest of the crew's
reactions to this - the immediate securing of themselves to anything - and
then the damage that ensues. Wide outside shot to an extreme close-up to a
slow back truck - incredible filmmaking.
Harry, I was on the edge of my seat throughout this film. My heart raced, my
palms grew sweaty and my blood pressure must have shot through the roof. If
Universal Marketing can hold on to the integrity of this film, you will have
another classic that will be enjoyed by history classes and film buffs into
the future - and another thing, can't wait for the DVD on this film…
That's it. I'm done…
Andolusian Dreamer
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well i been waiting for this movie for a while..i loved breakdown and bill paxton totally kicks ass...das boot is a classic as i am sure this is destined to be
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(1) This sounds like genuine enthusiasm, and "Breakdown" was, in my mind, a "Duel" for the 1990s. I'm there with my eight quid. (2) I would be remiss at this point if I didn't kick off (or come close to kicking off) this "Talk Back" with the following requisite comment: "Das Boot" is an incredible piece of filmmaking -- the sub-thriller-subgenre industrial-strength standard. (3) Finally, a bit of trivia: Were all of our readers aware that the "Das Boot" sub and the "Raiders of the Lost Ark" sub are, in fact, one in the same? In point of fact, one reason miniatures are used in "Das Boot" at certain points is because the full-sized sub apparently suffered some disuse at Spielberg's hands -- and sunk shortly after being returned to Wolfgang Petersen. Toujours!
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Though I personally thought that it pushed on revealing a little too much of the storyline...but then again, it's a historical story, so the ending and transpirations shouldn't be any surprise....okay, now I'm arguing with myself.
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Breakdown is an entertaining piece of film, as you said, a Duel for the nineties...but it's still the Duel, besides a few new elements there wasn't that much it had that Duel didn't. Kurt Russell's performance would be my major reason for seeing this film, I think he did a great job.
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this might sound a little petty, but I'm only thinking in the best interest of the producers here. If they think a film called "U-571" is going to do well at the box office than think again. Granted, SUBMARINE! would be a stupid title, but there's got to be something that is a little friendlier, possibly suggests the content of the film, and doesn't sound like the model number of a an appliance. "Yeah, I picked up the U-571, and now the wife doesn't have to do the dishes!"
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Finally, Bill PAxton seem to have struck gold, if you are to believe this review. I really hope that this could be his big breakthrough. Sure, he starred in "A simple plan" (which was superb) but how many saw that at the cinema ? Five ?
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I also like submarine-films and I have been kind of looking forward to this one. At first I didn
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I love Submarine movies and the trailer for this one looks really good. But I will bet that the Germans in this film speaks English with a German accent- because as everybody knows- during WWII the Germans spoke English amongs themselves!!!.
The cast sounds great and McConoghy: in Europe Bongo drums are leagal!!!!!!!!!! -
I already realise that some Americans think they fought the second world war alone, but I think this film is going too far.The Enigma code books were captured by the destroyer HMS PETARD on the night of October 30TH 1942 from the German submarine U-559. Able seaman Colin Grazier, Lieutenant Anthony Fasson and canteen assistant Tommy Brown swam to the sinking sub and recovered the code books. Brown swam back to the ship with the code books, but Grazier and Fasson became trapped on the sinking vessel and unfortunately drowned. No doubt the only British in this film will be playing Germans. Credit where it's due eh, gentleman.
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This actual incident involved a Royal Naval Vessel and a Damaged U boat the US Navy had no Involvement at all.
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Jan 28, 2000 6:07:08 AM CST
Sorry Britz, but it was the US that captured an enigma machine
by brendan3
You may have captured the books that let the allies know that such machines existed, but it was the US Navy that captured an actual working Enigma machine off a U Boat that was forced to surface and was quickly boarded before it could be scuttled and some dumb ass kriegsmarine officer forgot to destroy the machine. The captured German crew were kept separate from other German POWs to prevent the word getting out that we had a working enigma machine, with which we were able to automatically decode transmissions and hunt the wolfpacks at their exact locations. So quit crying about how us Yanks are taking credit from you Brits, because we're not. You'd probably like to believe you did more. Your greatest contribution to the allied victory was providing a land base close to continental Europe from which we could launch our invasion force and our bombers. There's no question that your armies fought and helped speed it along, but remember this: you could not have won the war in Europe without the American Army, but we could have still won it without the British Army. In fact, in the Fall of 1944, the allies could only afford to support either an push East from the North or South, and for political reasons we supported that prissy boy Montgomery's plan "Marketgarden, which was a mess and cost the allies men, firepower, and months of resources. Had the allies not listened backed the American thrust in the South, the wr would have been over by the end of 1944. So when you Brits can finish sniffling about how the Yanks steal all your glory, maybe you'll realize that we didn't steal it. It was ours.
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The allies had lots of Enigma machines given to them by the Poles. In fact before the war anyone could buy them from the company that made 'em.
It was the code books, which contained details of the Enigma machine's variable settings that were the important things.
I bet the film won't be a patch on Das Boot. -
Whose history is correct? It is well known that in war, history is written by the winners. I have noticed some discrepancies between what may have happened - who captured Enigma code books and who actually captured the machine itself? I suggest that we all do some digging around to find how different our respective histories are....Remember to reference your information!
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A boarding party from the Royal Navy destroyer "Somali" found an intact German naval Enigma coding machine and decipher book when it captured the weather ship "Munchen" in the North Atlantic. The cryptographic equipment proved useful in breaking the German naval code through Ultra intercepts.
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Having just finished reading a book on Alan Turing and the engima code breakers (which makes clear Turnig was one of a very few individuals who could be claimed to have turned the tide of the war) and indicated it was a UK ship that captured the device. I think accuracy is matters such as this is important and am curious about the comment it was a US ship. What source does this info come from? I think it is wrong to try and pull apart who contributed what - but accuracy of details is nonetheless important. After all, if it seems okay to switch from a UK ship to a US ship then one day it might seem better - from the point of view making money on a film - to switch larger events: image a film that states it was the US who were the agressors and who killed the Jews? This kind of history is more important than entertainment or making money in my opinion, and there need to be limits in changing important facts.
Can anyone provide other sources of info on this? -
anyone interested in the history behind breaking the enigma codes should check out this website http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/history.htm
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WARNING:The following question has nothing to do with the movie review up above so if your are wanting to talk about the movie scroll down so I don't waste your time.
Question:If your were hanging from a cliff in the middle of a jungle without any weapons of any kind and a lion was at the top of the cliff ready to eat you and at the bottom of the cliff was the lion's mate ready to eat you.What would you do? -
On the 9th of May, 1941, U-110 had been about to attack an Allied convoy when it was forced to surface by British ships protecting the convoy. The German crew surrendered.
The photograph on the left shows the boarding party from the destroyer HMS Bulldog, rowing out to the half-submerged U-boat. (U-110 later sank while being towed to a British naval base).
The British sailors climbed into the conning tower and began a search of the deserted submarine. The bookshelves still contained books of every description - navigation manuals, seamanship manuals, code books and signal books. The Bulldog's telegraphist pointed to an interesting piece of equipment that looked like a typewriter. This, along with all the books from the shelves, was transferred with utmost care to HMS Bulldog. It was important that everything was kept dry as the code books and signal books were printed in ink that disappeared if they were dropped in seawater.
Read it at: http://www.iwm.org.uk/online/enigma/enigma12.htm
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I am on the side of the Brits on this one as the original script ages ago was apparently the Brits doing this, but it was changed to Americans for obvious Hollywood account-book reasons. As for Alan Turing, he broke the Enigma code, but absolutely none of his research was used for fear that the Germans would come up with a new code. If you ever get a chance to read about the sad end of Mr. Turing (or get to see Hugh Whitemore's play, "Breaking the Code" which was done for the small screen with Derek Jacobi as Turing), you should check it out. It's quite a tale. Also, this post-er sounded like a walking PR firm. I was planning to see the movie anyway, but I always get a little whacked out of shape by absolute raves as so many firms these days spend time trying to manipulate the fuck out of AICN.
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Yeesh, ya know, this WAS based on a historical incident. The U-571 was a German Type IXC sub that was brought to the surface by an American ship and crew and boarded, that were able to save the sub even though the U-Boot commander has ordered the ship scuttled. The code books were still intact, and were helpful to the Allies, although not critical. The new encoding wheels on the sub were more helpful, as the Germans had changed their codewheels and codes (I think increasing the number of wheels in the machine as well) since the British captured their own wheels and codebooks. However, the Allies were already well on their way to breaking the code. In fact, the sub itself is still in existance, in Ohio, of all places.
And the frequent protestation that Enigma was not used is a pile of crap. Ever since the Poles smuggled an early Enigma machine out in 1939, the Allies were reading the messages. Even before they broke the codes, increased traffic meant something big was underway, and the fact that subs had to reply to Donitz meant that the convoys had a rough idea where the subs were and even when they were coming. The Germans thought their code machine was so wonderful that they never changed it throughout the war, allowing the Allies to whup them in the Battle of the Atlantic.
And movie be damned, the Allies were never in danger of losing the BotA, and certainly not by 1942. There weren't enough U-boots and radar was beginning to kill them way to frequently. Plus, once America finally entered the war and put it's industrial might behind the war effort, the Germans couldn't even keep up with the number of ships just coming off of the lines.
All this said, it still sounds like a good movie, and goodness knows there's been a long wait for a good sub movie! -
Jan 28, 2000 10:29:51 AM CST
Call me suspicious, but that review sounded like a plant to me..
by rap12
...unless Harry can vouch for this reviewer's identity, it gave me a feeling of an inside job. Just my 2 cents, although I hope it was real.
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I knew this was going to happen. You could sense it. When the producers of U-571 made their plans of re-writting history public, the UK papers were absolutely furious, as were many others. The producer(s) PROMISED to insert a message at the END of the film saying "historically, this event was undertaken by a British crew etc." I recall the news presenter on BBC saying "and so they should". A rare piece of personal comment on the BBC, as anyone who has watched it's news service knows, they are unbiased with everything - even with matters within the Beeb.
Spectre1138 posted the actual events. The codebook had been LEFT behind by the panicing crew. A member of the german crew spoke to the BBC on their Mermorial Day War programme, and said what happened...
A german officer ran into the code room and shouted that they were surfacing, and were to attempt to abandon ship. "Leave everything, go now" was shouted. The code officer perhaps in a state of shock, ran out. It was made clear that upon capture, etc that the enigma code book (a red manual, with a series of colomns - numbers and letters) should be burnt, placed in a sink/water or otherwise destroyed. For whatever reason, the soldier had a lapse of concentration (conspiracy theorists - he ment to leave it there) and ran off, leaving the book sitting on the desk next to the enigma machine. If memory serves, the American's had already captured machines previously, but without codes, all they could do was build a VERY big version and attempt to work out what sort of codes it threw out, etc. The US and British code crackers JOINED FORCES on this, but it was the brilliant Alan Turning who broke the code.
If the movie hits UK theatres without the historical message at the end of the flic - man there is going to be some flak from the news services, media, etc.
We all understand, i'm sure, why the American production company wanted to change it to a US crew etc. And it's just about forgivable AS LONG as the message is put in at the end giving details of the TRUE events. But still... very disappointing Hollywood. But with America's (i know, not all of you) great enthusiam to re-write history these days, i'm hardly surprised. I suppose to many though, a good sub movie is a good sub movie, damn history.
Perhaps America has such a lack of DECENT AND HEROIC TRUE EVENTS that they have to start stealing those of other countries...?
On the BBC special they had the man who, as a young soldier, boarded the sub first. He said they rowed across in the middle of the night, (i believe the film features it during the day?!) all scared as hell. When they got inside, he took out his gun and the crew began to slowly move around the sub. He said he's never been so scared in all his life. Now, having seen a man (albeit on TV) who was there, and did the actions Bon Jovi or someone in the film depicts) not get AT LEAST a message at the end of the film saying "this was a British crew" etc... Well, i'm disgusted.
Since the entire event was quite something, the same man was interviewed the next day in a newspaper. They asked him how he felt about U-571 Hollywood style... he said he didn't care if they had a US cast. He was just glad to have been involved in doing something for his country. Well... Let that arouse your own thoughts.
Harry you sub fanatic and history buff... surely you would find it disappointing and ever so depressing to once again see events your own Uncle was aware of, being changed for Hollywood and mass consumption of non-historians who continue to be told every honarable, brave, nasty or violent thing in war happened to a friendly bunch of Yanks...
The key point is obviously the person who posted the review now believes it was a US crew. He refers to the film perhaps in future years "being enjoyed by history classes" - man... i just hope someone tells them the truth about the events, good film or not. -
VERY GOOD ! Your the first person that actually "GOT" the question.I've asked this question to many people and they never did catch on.
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The enigma code was broken by the Brits. U - 571 was originally about a British crew, just like Memphis Belle was originally about a Brit crew. Hollywood always changes the facts. In Saving Private Ryan the thing that really grated with me is that there was no reference made to the Brits, the Canadians, the Aussies, New Zealanders, Indians etc who fought and died on D-day. Not one reference. The Second World War would not have been won without the U.S, but horribly it's only a case of numbers. America had more cannon fodder to throw at the Germans and Japs. It's that simple. I don't really like films that celebrate victory, especially when the portrayel is a damned lie, like in U - 571. Credit to the real heroes.
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I never meant to offend any New Zealanders or Aussies. I also don't require any history lesson. I'm a combat veteran and a student of military history. I was merely trying to piss off some of the British posters on talkback. Every time an article comes up about a war film in production, there are always some Brits moaning about how Hollywood leaves them out. So, feeling a little ired, I decided to piss them off and I believe I succeeded. Good. I meant no offense to anyone else and I know how your nation was bled dry during the war. You're right, of course, when you say the war would have ended earlier had we entered earlier. Sure, and it would never had started in Europe had we intervened in Spain or had Chamberlin not been more passive than the US at the time. No offense meant ol' painless. As for the Brits that are still bitching that Saving Private Ryan didn't tell their story too: pbblltt!
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Memphis Belle was an American plane with an American crew in an American squadron based in England. Get your facts right. The story of SAVING PRIVATE RYAN is the story of a group of American soldiers, not the definitive story of the entire D-Day operation. Are you going to complain that Peter Weir's Gallipoli only told the story of the Aussies and the Turks and neglected all the other nations that fought in World War One? Hey Thin Red Line didn't show all the other nations fighting in the Pacific either. Get a grip. It's not revisionist history when they're telling one story from a small part of the whole war.
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Also, since the Japanese were Axis allies, the Germans supplied them with Enigma devices. Once the code was broken over in Europe, the Americans found that they could read the Japanese code. It became known as "Magic".
It was as big a secret in the Pacific as it was in Europe. Great debates were had over whether or not to use the information gathered as if it was used too much, the Japanese would have changed their codes. It was an intercepted communication that led to the shooting down of Admiral Yamamoto's aircraft.
In fact, it was used as a back door communications method, as only a few people knew it existed. -
I think people are confusing a couple of different incidents here - the submarine captured by the US was the U-505 ... it was captured in June of 1944, long after the British capture of an Enigma device had helped win the Battle of the Atlantic for the allies. The U-505 (the first enemy warship captured on the high seas by the US Navy since the War of 1812) is currently on display in Chicago Illinois.
A link to the U-505 site is below:
http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/U505home.html -
This is an interesting footnote of history.
Once the allies had the Enigma machine they still needed the codebook. In September of 1940 the Assistant to the Director of Naval Intelligence wrote to his superior about a plan to capture a Enigma codebook called Operation Ruthless. The plan called for a refitted german bomber with an english crew in german uniform to crash into the Channel and send an S.O.S to the germans.
Once a german resuce boat arrived the "german" crew of the plane would capture the boat, kill everyone aboard (to keep the secret a codebook had been taken) and sail back to England.
The Assistant to the Director of Naval Intelligence who had proposed this plan was none other than Ian Fleming.
Ian Fleming plan was ready to go, but intelligence was never able to find a suittable ship in the channel to capture.
(This info is from David Kahn's book "Seizing the Enigma") -
Memphis Belle (the first US Army Air Corps bomber - a B-17 - to complete 25 missions and return home with its crew) was most assuredly about an AMERICAN crew ... any attempt to portray an RAF crew would have been just as false and misleading as assigning credit for the capture of the Enigma Device to a USN submarine crew. While the movie was rife with technical and historical innacuracies (including changing the names of the crew memebers) - the nationality of the crew was not one of them. I have the video of original US Army documentary on the Belle (from 1943 ) and have met Lt. Col. Robert Morgan (the pilot of the Belle) on several occasions. I think he'd be quite amused to hear that he flew for the RAF and the Belle (currently preserved in Memphis, TN, USA) wore British roundels.
See link below for more information.
http://www.memphisbelle.com/ -
Sounds like a kickass little movie. Submarine genre is a very undeveloped one that has lots of potential. The submarine setting is an enclosed, claustrophic little space in which lots of young men live in without seeing women or the sun for months at a time. Yeah, I know what your thinking, sounds like a good premise for a gay porn flick but there's also plenty of potential for drama and suspense. Just as man was not meant to fly, man was not meant to travel deep underwater for long periods of time. It surprises me that there have only been two exceptional submarine movies ever; Das Boot and Crimson Tide. I hated The Hunt for Red October and really wish that film was never made. The Enemy below was a good old war movie but the special effects of that time really made it dificult to film a realisitc sub movie. A good Sub movie nobody knows about is the Japanese Animated film Silent Service. Silent Service is about a really brilliant and courageous young Captain in the Japanese Navy who is entrusted with the helm of that country's first ever nuclear sub. Ofcourse he goes awol and almost ends the world. If military tactics, especially in sea combat, are your bag, Silent Sevice wouldn't be a bad rent.
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dickhead aren't you? The original script for Memphis Belle was written with a British Lancaster bomber crew in mind until the film company[?] realised they couldn't get the financial backing. You are right to say that making a film from the perspective of a group of one nations soldiers is not revisionist history. However, no matter what way you want to word it, this film IS revisionist history. Next thing you know Hollywood will be remaking zulu with the 7th Cavalry in place of the South Wales Borderers. I am not having a go at all Americans here, just idiots like Brendan, who seem to regard the British with some sort of disdain.
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Amongst all this pointless bickering about who did what in a war that killed millions worldwide, there's not one mention for the Soviet Union and their not too insignificant contribution to victory in World War II. Stalingrad, Kursk etc. are every bit as important as Normandy.
Some people should spend a little less time surfing and watching war movies, and a little more reading some history books and getting some perspective.
This film's still going to be fantastic, even though I'm apparently one of those moaning, pissed off Brits. -
Read your film books dipshit. David Puttnam produced Memphis Belle. The story was originally about a British Lancaster bomber crew. It was changed to an American Crew for the usual reasons. Gallipoli did portray the Brits in the film. Go back to film school, couch potato. Lets face it, if we relyed on Hollywood for our history lessons, you'd have thought America won the Vietnam War (Ooooooo..... I knew someone would raise one that sooner or later.)
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Memphis Belle was an American plane with an American crew. I see know from your last posting that what you're saying is (unless I mistook it) that originally Universal was going to do a film about a British bomber crew and then changed it to the story of the Memphis Belle. Unless of course you don't know what the Memphis Belle was or can't tell the difference between film productions and history. I like your "couch potato" comment. Gosh. What the hell was that all about. You suggest I need to go to film school because I don't understand history? Wow, you're a god damned genius kid.
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Why do you feel it necessary to 'piss-off' the British?
What is it exactly that you find so alarming?
The truth? Hollywood's lies? As a student of military history (a claim that I find ridiculous) you should know that Britain went through a blitz and 4 years of misery. Were we NOT 'bled dry'? We see evidence of our war effort every day. People who participated are still here with us. They are proud to have been involved. They are also proud to be British. Hollywood not only has a responsibility to provide entertainment - but also to represent the truth where possible. As a British citizen I am appalled with the casual way in which our efforts during the war are brushed off by Hollywood. You have to understand that people (on the whole) are stupid. They will beleive these films and consider them to be gospel. This is wrong and it creates the wrong impressions. I don't want a fight with anybody. I want Britain to be given it's credit and recognition for what we acheived (and what we did not) during the war. -
Jan 28, 2000 1:11:19 PM CST
For an interesting "secret history" on the breaking of the codes
by murph
...among other things, read CRYPTONOMICON by Neal Stephenson. And learn to live with the fact that Americans have never been able to make war movies that properly involved other countries. But hey! Neither have the Brits! Anyone want to guess how many how many Canucks were involved in the real GREAT ESCAPE, or in DAMBUSTERS, or take a crack at just how many authentic Canadian accents were in THE DEVIL'S BRIGADE? At least the Aussies know how to make war movies that tell their own stories.
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Now I understand your confusion when you wrote, "David Puttnam produced Memphis Belle. The story was originally about a British Lancaster bomber crew. " He may have begun production on a British bomber film but then changed to Memphis Belle and you think Memphis Belle was about a British bomber. You jackass, you didn't know that Memphis Belle was a true story about an American bomber(the Memphis Belle) and her crew. Wow, and I need to learn my history? Maybe Putnam was working on a Brit bomber film of a different title. You look really stupid trying to say Memphis Belle was a British bomber.
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It was for Brits like you complaining that I posted my offensive talkback. I'm tired of hearing Brits bitch everytime a WW2 movie is made without them. Not every war film has to mention the British sacrifice. If Spielberg does a film about a few Americans on Omaha Beach, he doesn't become obligated to tell the story of the British landings. The press represented the film as the definitive D-Day film. He didn't. He made it to honor US vets, not to tell the story of the whole war. I was tired of hearing Brits on talkback complaining about that and any other WW2 film that doesn't tell their story, so after arguing pointlessly over it in the past, I decided to take a shot at their frail sensibilities instead and I'm glad to see it worked. Pbblltt!
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It was for Brits like you complaining that I posted my offensive talkback. I'm tired of hearing Brits bitch everytime a WW2 movie is made without them. Not every war film has to mention the British sacrifice. If Spielberg does a film about a few Americans on Omaha Beach, he doesn't become obligated to tell the story of the British landings. The press represented the film as the definitive D-Day film. He didn't. He made it to honor US vets, not to tell the story of the whole war. I was tired of hearing Brits on talkback complaining about that and any other WW2 film that doesn't tell their story, so after arguing pointlessly over it in the past, I decided to take a shot at their frail sensibilities instead and I'm glad to see it worked. Pbblltt!
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It was for Brits like you complaining that I posted my offensive talkback. I'm tired of hearing Brits bitch everytime a WW2 movie is made without them. Not every war film has to mention the British sacrifice. If Spielberg does a film about a few Americans on Omaha Beach, he doesn't become obligated to tell the story of the British landings. The press represented the film as the definitive D-Day film. He didn't. He made it to honor US vets, not to tell the story of the whole war. I was tired of hearing Brits on talkback complaining about that and any other WW2 film that doesn't tell their story, so after arguing pointlessly over it in the past, I decided to take a shot at their frail sensibilities instead and I'm glad to see it worked. Pbblltt!
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What is the matter with you? Credit where it is due! Saving Private Ryan was fine - I have no problems with it. It is a good film with an excellent re-creation of D-Day at Omaha. We weren't there. Fine.
We captured the Enigma. Please try and understand that this film is insulting and offensive as it is a blatant lie. I am sorry if you don't understand that.
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Jan 28, 2000 2:36:32 PM CST
Now THIS is a Talk Back.... (Also: Thoughts on the gay codebreak
by alexandra dupont
I thought all geeks were supposed to be obsessed with pornography and technology, not arcane historical discussions and political philosophy. A few things: (1) We ALL won the war, gentlemen -- and none of us could have won it without the others
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Very easy solution...get your country to back your film industry...than you can make whatever "accurate" films you want. Otherwise, get off our backs...no one is saying this is a true story.
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Ha and ha again! You thought you could trick me, you nazi bastard! You acted like you had no idea who I was talking about, but it was you all along! Now I know that anyone with the screen name of Brendan, with any combination of numbers afterwards, is you! It's you it's you it's you, you John Rocker Wannabe! Hahahaha! Us semites are a lot smarter than you think! Or...maybe we're dumber, or I'm just dumber. It did take me at least 2 weeks to confirm my suspicions...nevermind! Ahahaha!
Alright kids, I want everyone to know, Brendan3 (my favorite fuckmonkey, isn't he yours?) is this racist little shit that has run around the overnet stirring up racist shit. He's gone by a few different names, but they all involve "Brendan." How do I, your friendly neighborhood *insert ocupation here* know anything about him? I was lured into a chatroom by one of his friends once, and he's stalked me ever since. Usenet, chats, anywhere I post, within a few days there's *someone* with the screen name of Brendan either bashing me or, if I'm not there, anything regarding WASPs and how much they stink. Well, they don't stink, it's just you know, their culture and how fucked-up they make everything....no no no no no, I'm digressing. Watch out for Brendy, he's a hardcore Landing Eagle scout for the Hitler Youth. I mean hardcore. This guy went off on a rant about purity "without killing anybody." for like several bytes of space on Usenet. He said he was in the military, I think he said the marines but this guy seems more like army or navy material. (teehee) And remember, if you're not a white, anglo-saxon protestant, exhibit as much racial/religious pride around him as you can muster, he'll go off like a roman candle. (no, I don't think he likes italians or chinese either)
And it's not like I could be wrong. I'm never technically "wrong," but now I'm even less wronger (that could be a neat cachphrase....wronger. Wronger. Watch out before you're found to be a wronger. Don't make me twist you around my wronger. Wronger is as wronger does...sorry, back to the insanity with Brendy)
And anyway, it's too much of a coincidence to have two guys named Brendan harass something I said on the internet. -
This review reeks of studio plant but what the hell do I care? The movie still looks like it kicks ass. It should have had a spoiler warning though. Breakdown was awesome and sub movies rule! Too bad kurt Russel isn't in this instead. The cast is mostly bad-ass except for Matthew Mconawhatever.
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You seem to be obsessed with me, because I've argued with you in the past. You once posted a few things stereotyping all white people as evil here on an AICN talkback. I called you on it and said that it was just as racist to stereotype white people as it is to stereotype black people. So you called me a racist. That's pretty weak, considering you don't know me. I even argued that all people are created equal regardless of color, religion, or ethnic background. I simply stated that being anti-white is a form of racism too... and for that you labeled me a racist. If either of us is a racist, it'd be you. For me saying all people are equal, you've labeled me a racist, a nazi, an anti-semite, etc. What's up with that. we've argued before right here, and only here on AICN talkback, maybe you should read back over what I've written. All the talkbacks here are archived. Grow up and learn that if someone disagrees with you, it doesn't make them racist. Hey you disagreed with me, so you must be a pedophile. That makes as much sense. As far as someone else out there named Brendan disagreeing with you... sorry, but it ain't me. Maybe there's another Brendan out there. If I was trying to be sly, don't you think I wouldn't use the name Brendan again. I only use this name Brendan3 and that's because it's my real name(I had to take the number 3 because other Brendans were already registered) These postings aren't confidential. If you really wanted to you could get my email address and look up other personal information about me. Or you could just post accusatory, uninformed, baseless rantings about me on talkbacks.
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To all film buffs out there and anybody else who cares - after reading these talk backs, I am almost ashamed for writing this review (yes, I am the Andolusion Dreamer - a name given to me by Harry). Granted I loved this movie, you can see above - but above all, I was entertained. Isn't that what filmmaking was and is about? I apologize for mentioning the history class statement - now I know more about the Enigma from reading these history filled talk backs. But people - the film was very entertaining - an escape from the "normal" world we live in. Facts that are right or wrong, this movie will get my $7 - $8.50 at release to see it again. God bless filmmakers who still want to entertain their audiences... and next time I see a special screening here in Sacramento (yes, they do screen early films to us "losers"), I'll try to get my "facts" straight.
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You sir, are exactly correct! I was thinking of the U-505 when I wrote the blurb about the U-571, substitute U-505 for U-571 in my original post, and it is correct.
Shuffling off to my corner with the cap on. . . -
Jan 28, 2000 5:43:11 PM CST
But the important question is... does it start with a Russian Hy
by cassius the evil
As I've previously stated, russian hymns can improve *any* movie.
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How does it feel to know what you guys so passionately argue about will be forgotten in a few generations anyways. The idea of history is dying. Future generations will give two tugs of a dead dog's dick about who won what battle and when and all that. Because nations will go away, countries and pride in your homeland will go away, all of it, gone. Making history useless, at least the dates, places and men. Only the lessons will be important and those can be told in any format and about anything. Kinda depressing I know, but it's a fact. You will see.
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all this talk of 'revisionist' history. Do any of you actually think that this film, no matter how good it may be, will ever be considered a historical film? It's escapist entertainment, loosely based on real happenings. I'm sure it will have a nice little disclaimer at the end, just like all other escapist entertainment.
I have to say that i'm disappointed in all of you Americans and British who are arguing amongst yourselves. My suggestion is that you petition Hollywood and get them to include, on every single war movie from now on, a complete list of participating nations who fought in the war being depicted in the film. It should be all inclusive, listing every nation that fought in every theatre that the war was fought in, even if only one theatre was depicted in the film. This list should praise and honor all of the victorious nations, in no particular order, and vilify all those nations who were vanquished, in particular order. I think this would help to keep the peace among the victors... -
I don't know why they didn't just leave Enigma alone...their Europop, semi-ambient grooves are Muzak of the worst kind.....
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..for finally telling people from England, Australia, etc. to stop using the term 'Yankee' to describe all Americans. For those who don't know, 'Yankees' are Americans who live in the six New England states(Massachusetts, Connectitcut, Vermont, Rhode Island , New Hampshire and Maine). about 5% of the USA population. Next time a Brit calls you a 'Yank', tell them"Oh , you're from England, you must be a Cockney" . BTW, Jon Bon Jovi's character was called a sargent. As I recall, there are no sargents in the Navy .Unless he is playing a Marine.
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After the US entered the war on Dec. 8th, 1941 Winston Churchill wrote that he went to bed that night and "slept the sleep of the saved." (And he was half American too.) 'Nuff Said.
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just what was the last war your lot won on their own then? And as for you claiming that the English language is yours now. Ha! Ha!
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The most fascinating part of all this of course is how apparent it is the British are jealous of us. How often do we waste our day complaining about anything that goes on in Britain? The fact is we don't care, never will, and it's useless to try to convince us otherwise. We are the US of A. We're selfish. Egotistical. Self-absorbed as well as self-obsessed.
However, we are still called upon every single time any other country needs help to battle tyranny and oppression by outside forces. This is not disputable. Sometimes we don't want to do it, need to do it, or enjoy doing it. But we do. And if we didn't all the other countries in the world might be speaking Russian, German, or Chinese. And I really don't think you would all like that right?
p.s. Enigma's new album rules! -
England sucks. You can't win a war without us unspohisticated farting yanks
there to save your ass. Instead of kissing up to that old dyke queen you have
you'd be doing a sieg hiel to the Fuhrer right now if it wasn't for America
defending your ass. We're colonizing Mars and you so-called sophisticated
people are still worshipping a Queen who pays little or no taxes. Princess Di?
Who cares about that spoiled bitch? So what if she died in a car crash? That rich
spoiled bitch could never stop whining, I'm glad the paparazzi shut her up.
America is 2-0 against your poor excuse for a country. Revolutionary War not a
war? What the fuck kind of history textbooks were you reading in school? The
war lasted 7 years and hundreds of thousands of people died in it. We were on
the side of right and beat your ass. The English broke a couple of Nazi codes?
So fucking what? Neville Chamberlain, the typical English coward, chose to
appease Hitler prior to the war by giving the Nazis land. What a brilliant idea!
Ever see Braveheart? A bunch of Scottish hillibilles armed with clubs and
hammers defeated your army. You English think you so much better than
everyone, not just us Americans but also the Irish, Indians and the rest of the
world for that matter. The biggest mistake America ever made was dropping
the bomb on Hiroshima, we should have dropped it on London instead. We
wouldn't have so many whiny British actors in movies today. They only good
thing that ever come out of your shitty little island was the Spice Girls. -
England sucks. You can't win a war without us unspohisticated farting yanks there to save your ass. Instead
of kissing up to that old dyke queen you have you'd be doing a sieg hiel to the Fuhrer right now if it wasn't for
America defending your ass. We're colonizing Mars and you so-called sophisticated people are still worshipping a
Queen who pays little or no taxes. Princess Di? Who cares about that spoiled bitch? So what if she died in a car
crash? That rich spoiled bitch could never stop whining, I'm glad the paparazzi shut her up. America is 2-0 against
your poor excuse for a country. Revolutionary War not a war? What the fuck kind of history textbooks were you
reading in school? The war lasted 7 years and hundreds of thousands of people died in it. We were on the side of
right and beat your ass. The English broke a couple of Nazi codes? So fucking what? Neville Chamberlain, the
typical English coward, chose to appease Hitler prior to the war by giving the Nazis land. What a brilliant idea!
Ever see Braveheart? A bunch of Scottish hillibilles armed with clubs and hammers defeated your army. You
English think you so much better than everyone, not just us Americans but also the Irish, Indians and the rest of
the world for that matter. The biggest mistake America ever made was dropping the bomb on Hiroshima, we
should have dropped it on London instead. We wouldn't have so many whiny British actors in movies today. They
only good thing that ever come out of your shitty little island was the Spice Girls. -
England sucks. You can't win a war without us unspohisticated farting yanks there to save your ass. Instead
of kissing up to that old dyke queen you have you'd be doing a sieg hiel to the Fuhrer right now if it wasn't for
America defending your ass. We're colonizing Mars and you so-called sophisticated people are still worshipping a
Queen who pays little or no taxes. Princess Di? Who cares about that spoiled bitch? So what if she died in a car
crash? That rich spoiled bitch could never stop whining, I'm glad the paparazzi shut her up. America is 2-0 against
your poor excuse for a country. Revolutionary War not a war? What the fuck kind of history textbooks were you
reading in school? The war lasted 7 years and hundreds of thousands of people died in it. We were on the side of
right and beat your ass. The English broke a couple of Nazi codes? So fucking what? Neville Chamberlain, the
typical English coward, chose to appease Hitler prior to the war by giving the Nazis land. What a brilliant idea!
Ever see Braveheart? A bunch of Scottish hillibilles armed with clubs and hammers defeated your army. You
English think you so much better than everyone, not just us Americans but also the Irish, Indians and the rest of
the world for that matter. The biggest mistake America ever made was dropping the bomb on Hiroshima, we
should have dropped it on London instead. We wouldn't have so many whiny British actors in movies today. They
only good thing that ever come out of your shitty little island was the Spice Girls. -
Jan 29, 2000 6:56:24 PM CST
What do you call an over rated third world nation with delusions
by brendan3
Britain... as if we didn't all already know the answer to that one.
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Jan 29, 2000 7:00:23 PM CST
But, isn't England famous for its culture, cuisine, beautiful wo
by brendan3
Oh wait, it doesn't have any of that... my mistake.
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OBI WAN, you said of teh War of 1812(I quote you)"When one country tries to invade another and is repelled, that means you LOSE!!" You sir have your facts slightly askew. The British landed an invasion force on our Eastern seaboard and drove in pretty well for a while. In fact, to give you credit, you burned the original White House, but you were stopped at the Potamic and defeated. You lost. Look it up. One of the last sieges while your army was still on the offensive is the source inspiration for the lyrics in our "Star Spangled Banner" You have gone to war twice with the US and lost twice. Our revolutionary war counts, since we declared our independence in 1776. Check the facts on your wars.
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Jan 29, 2000 8:21:34 PM CST
You're right Obi-Wan. I was wrong. England did produce one other
by golgo-14
You English are the master race. I say bukus! You can't even walk outside without using ten gallons of sunblock to protect your pasty, ugly skin. There wouldn't even be an England today if we hadn't entered the war. You'd be typing in German while America would still be here. England is backwards country. Last time I checked that's what we called country's that still had primitive kings and queens. What's even worse, your Queen doesn't even do anything. She just sits in her fucking palace and watches American television all day. You enjoy pissing people off? Telling lies and half-truths. Tell you what, how about I sue you for libel? That piece of shit island you live on doesn't even have free speech. Americans invented free speech just to piss you people off. More than 200 years since the Bill of Rights(people in England have none) and you still haven't learned the value of being able to say whatever you want in a society. Some great country you live in. Suck on my big, hairy American cock and kiss my feet for not only protecting you from the Germans but also rebuilding your country after the war.
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Go to rotten dot com, Obi-Wan. There they have pictures of Di after the accident. I'm still trying to clean my screen.
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The British were impounding American ships,illegally, because they were claiming that American seamen were British citizens who had deserted. There was no Whit House in the revolutionar ywar, it hadn't been built yet. My next posting will give your dumb limey ass more facts
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"The White House was sacked in the Revolutionary War idiot, not 1812" Those were your words. How did we build a white house, if we hadn't yet won our freedom Shmuck?
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Jan 29, 2000 8:34:53 PM CST
Hey Obi Wan Kenobi, here's an excerpt from Compton's Encyclopedi
by brendan3
A cause of the War of 1812 was the impressment of American sailors. In common with other countries at the time Great Britain did not recognize the right of naturalization. Its theory of citizenship was "Once an Englishman, always an Englishman." Least of all was it disposed to admit that British seamen, attracted by the higher wages, better food, and more kindly treatment on American vessels, could desert their ships in American harbors and enter American service under the protection of so-called naturalization papers. Accordingly, its naval commanders had strict orders to stop neutral ships and make a thorough search for deserters.
This policy of impressment proved especially hateful to the United States because, owing to the difficulty of distinguishing between Englishmen and Americans, many of the impressed sailors were native-born Americans. Between 1803 and 1810, in fact, about 5,000 American citizens were officially reported as having been forced to serve on British ships. While such sailors were released when their identity was established, this was a difficult thing to prove and occurred in most instances only after the impressed men had served under the British colors for a year or two; of the number mentioned above, for example, only 1,361 were released.
The "Chesapeake Affair"
The most intolerable instance of the exercise of the right of impressment was the unprovoked attack on the American frigate Chesapeake by the British ship Leopard on June 22, 1807. The attack was made because the American commander refused to permit his vessel to be searched for deserters. In this encounter three Americans were killed, eighteen were wounded, and four men three of them Americans were taken on board the British ship. Four years later, a somewhat similar controversy had a different outcome for, in this instance, the American frigate President forced the British sloop of war Little Belt to strike her colors.
A third cause of the war was the belief especially strong in the West that the British had for years incited the Indians to attack American frontier settlements. Although the truth of this charge is now questioned, it seemed then to be confirmed by British guns and powder of British origin found by William Henry Harrison among the effects of the Indians whom he defeated in 1811 at Tippecanoe (see Harrison, William Henry), and by the flight of the Indian leader Tecumseh to Canada after that defeat.
Numerous efforts to avoid war had been made by the American government. Upon Jefferson's recommendation Congress passed Embargo and Non-Intercourse acts. These were designed to keep American ships at home and to secure justice from the belligerents by depriving them of American goods which so Jefferson thought were essential for their welfare (see Embargo).
While the embargo did, indeed, injure British manufacturers, it proved even more harmful to American shippers and farmers. It was like "holding the blade of the sword and striking the enemy with the hilt." Finally, during Madison's administration, an act was passed repealing the Non-Intercourse Act. It offered, in case either belligerent should revoke its decrees against neutral commerce, to forbid trade with the other if it too did not withdraw its decrees within a given time. Shortly after the passage of this act Napoleon notified the American minister in Paris that his decrees were revoked. This revocation, he added, was on the understanding that if England did not revoke its Orders in Council the United States should "cause their rights to be respected," by taking specific action against the British. Having good reason to suspect that Napoleon had not actually withdrawn his decrees, the British refused to recall their Orders in Council. They therefore continued to interfere with American trade.
The "War Hawks" Demand War
Madison, threatened with a loss of renomination, was urged to action by a group of fiery young congressmen led by Henry Clay the "war hawks." Madison finally sent a strong message to Congress reviewing the British aggressions and recommending war. Accordingly, on June 18, 1812, by a vote of 79 to 49 in the House and of 19 to 13 in the Senate, war was declared. Almost all the votes against the bill were cast by New England Federalists. Five days later the Orders in Council were revoked. The revocation, however, was so unsatisfactory that, although the British proposed a suspension of hostilities, their proposal was rejected and the War of 1812 was under way.
The American leaders expected to conquer Canada in short order and to dictate terms of peace in Quebec or Halifax. But the government was totally unprepared for war. The regular army was poorly drilled and officered, and New England strongly opposed the war.
These conditions brought quick disaster to the Canadian campaign. On July 17 the British and Indians seized Mackinac. On August 15 the garrison of Fort Dearborn on the Chicago River abandoned the post and was ambushed by Indians a few miles away (see Chicago). The following day Gen. William Hull disgracefully surrendered Detroit and more than 1,000 soldiers to 750 British and 600 Indians. On October 13 some 900 regulars attacked Queenston Heights near Niagara. However, 3,000 New York soldiers refused to leave the state for the battle. The regulars were overwhelmed and were forced to surrender.
Campaigns in 1813
The next year opened no better. On January 22 an American force sent against Detroit was defeated at the Raisin River. The Indians massacred many of the wounded. On April 27 the Americans captured and burned York (now Toronto). But an expedition against Montreal met defeat at Williamsburg November 11.
Late in 1813, however, American fortunes improved in the west. On September 10 Master Commandant Oliver H. Perry led nine newly built vessels against a British fleet of six on Lake Erie near Put-in-Bay, north of Sandusky, Ohio. After a fierce three-hour fight the British were compelled to surrender. (See also Perry.)
Perry promptly helped Gen. William H. Harrison to move troops and regain Detroit September 29. Following the British into Canada, Harrison defeated them and their Indian allies under Tecumseh at the Thames River, October 5. Tecumseh was killed, and the Americans remained masters of the Detroit region (see Tecumseh).
American Victories at Sea
During these dismal years the Americans were cheered by the feats of their small navy. It had only seven first-rank frigates; but these carried 44 guns instead of Britain's standard 38 and they had thicker sides. They soon proved far superior to the ships sent against them.
On Aug. 19, 1812, the Constitution (or "Old Ironsides"), commanded by Capt. Isaac Hull, wrecked and captured the British Guerriere in 25 minutes of action. On October 25 Stephen Decatur in the United States captured the Macedonian in a fight that cost the British 104 casualties against an American loss of 12. On October 18 the sloop Wasp captured the British brig Frolic. On December 29 the Constitution under Capt. William Bainbridge shattered and captured the Java off Brazil.
Thereafter the British avoided ship-to-ship battles with frigates of superior strength. On June 1, 1813, the British Shannon met the Chesapeake under Capt. James Lawrence off Boston. Each ship had 38 guns, but Lawrence's crew was new and poorly trained. Lawrence was mortally wounded. As he was carried below he ordered, "Don't give up the ship!" (See also Lawrence, James.) But the Americans had to surrender.
Thereafter each side won naval battles but these did not affect the outcome of the war. A more important factor was Napoleon's loss of his army in Russia during the winter of 1812-13. The next spring the British were free to send a few 74-gun warships to Delaware and Chesapeake bays. Gradually Britain established a firm blockade along the American Atlantic coast. Curiously, however, the British never protected their home waters against naval raiders and privateers. Losses sent insurance rates to 18 percent in the Irish Sea and 33 percent on a voyage to North America.
Campaigns in 1814
In 1814 the Americans again invaded Canada over the Niagara line. On July 5 a force of 8,000 defeated the British at Chippewa. On July 25 a hotly contested battle took place at Lundy's Lane. An American charge captured the enemy artillery but in three counterattacks the British regained it. The British lost 878 killed and wounded; the Americans, 860. This was the last attempt to invade Canada.
During the summer, the British took eastern Maine, starting with Eastport on July 11. They wanted to provide good communication between the Maritime Provinces and Montreal and Quebec. Next the British sent 10,000 men south from Montreal, supported by a small fleet on Lake Champlain. But on September 11 an American fleet under Thomas Macdonough defeated the British off Plattsburg. The British commander, Sir George Prevost, feared to advance without his fleet and withdrew.
In August Maj. Gen. Robert Ross landed 4,500 men in Maryland and moved against Washington. On August 24 about 6,500 militiamen faced him at Bladensburg but fled almost at the first shot. That evening the British marched into Washington and burned the Capitol, the president's home, other buildings, and military stores. (See also White House.)
After capturing Alexandria, Virginia, the invaders moved against Baltimore but met stout resistance. A naval bombardment on September 13-14 failed to reduce Fort McHenry at the harbor mouth. It was during this bombardment that Francis Scott Key was inspired to write 'The Star-Spangled Banner' (see Key, Francis Scott; National Songs). After General Ross fell the British withdrew.
The Curious End of the War
Now each side was tired of the war. Only a few "war hawks" still dreamed of conquering Canada. Export trade was all but paralyzed, and, after British victories over the French, Americans saw no reason to fear further British oppression at sea. The British in turn were exhausted financially and otherwise by the Napoleonic struggle. They wanted nothing so much as peace and a chance to recover.
In August peace discussions began at Ghent in Belgium. The representatives wasted months in futile attempts to obtain advantages. Finally they agreed upon terms that substantially restored the status of 1812, before the war began. They provided for commissions to deal with unsettled questions. The peace treaty was signed on December 24, 1814.
The end came in time to stop a menacing development in New England. In December 1814, delegates from five states met secretly at Hartford, Conn. They prepared demands upon the next session of Congress for constitutional amendments to protect New England's interests against the West and the South. The states might have threatened to secede from the Union if their demands were ignored, but the news of peace ended the movement.
The news did not come in time to prevent a bloody battle at New Orleans. A British force, which landed at Lake Borgne in December, could have taken the city, but it waited for reinforcements. This gave Gen. Andrew Jackson time to gather an army and build defensive works. When the British attacked on Jan. 8, 1815, Jackson's frontier riflemen, regular army men, and two battalions of black soldiers mowed them down. The British commander Pakenham was killed, and the survivors took to their ships. They left more than 2,200 killed, wounded, and prisoners. The American loss was 45. (See also Jackson, Andrew.)
The war cost the United States about 200 million dollars. A total of 2,260 American sailors and soldiers were killed. Neither the United States nor Great Britain gained any military advantage. Indirectly the United States made some gains. In the West the British were no longer able to check the forward movement of American settlers, for their influence over the Indians had been broken. In the South, Andrew Jackson's defeat of Britain's allies, the Creek Indians, opened a vast area in Georgia and Alabama for settlement. His campaigns spurred the events that led to Spain's surrender of Florida to the United States in 1819.
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Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia
Copyright (c) 1994, 1995 Compton's NewMedia, Inc. All Rights Reserved -
Maybe Comptons Encyclopedia is conspiring aginst you too
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U-571 is historical fiction. Obi-Wan, the film wasn't meant to be an affron to your country and what it did during WWWII, which was a lot. If you think it is an affront, then I recommend you watch the film which won last year's academy award for best Documentary. It was about the experiences of the survivors of the holocaust after it was over. Glorious Brittania, quite frankly, treated the holocaust survivors like shit, giving them very little food or aid. The English gave the Jewish survivors even more trouble when they tried to start the state of Israel in the middle east. ALl the Jews wanted was a stretch of worthless land in the desert that they could call home but your home country didn't want them to have it. A survivor of the holocaust once said "The Nazis wouldn't let us survive, the English wouldn't let us live." Not a very proud legacy. No wonder you neglected to mention that in your previous posts about England and WWII. As for golgo-14 and brendan3, I actually admire these guys for standing up for their country in the face of egregious lies. A little foul language never hurt anyone.
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to bring all kinds of wars from the 1800's into a discussion about a hollywoodisation of an actual event from WWII? I posted the original 'moan' about the facts in this film being changed, and I stand by it. It's no good the film saying 'based' on actual events 'cos anyone who watches it will think that's what actually happened, much as people think that Braveheart is true.
To the dickhead that keeps writing god fuck the queen, save yourself the effort mate, nobody's arsed. -
like yours lecturing us on a class system. Yes the class system is still [partly] in place, however you won't find anyone in this country getting barred from school or even getting on a bus because of his/her colour. As for your nonsense about bowler hats etc. just get a life, and stop watching 60's Disney films to form your opinion of Britain, you retard.
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I am not disputing the fact that in WWII America was the driving force in the ALLIES victory. But I think you'll find that Americas entry into WWI had little or no impact upon a war that was as good as won at that stage.
And knock the stupid homosexual references on the head, you're doing yourself and your country no favours at all. -
1918, Germany is winning the great war. England is devestated, the Russian Revolution is about to take place, Lenin wants to pull his countrymen out of the war. Who comes to save the day? You guessed it, USA did. We beat the Kaiser. You need to touch up on your history. You probably thought the assassination of JFK, rather than Archduke Ferdinand, started the war. Remember, the First World War asserted the US as a World power because we were the ones who beat the Germans, not the French, not the Russians and certainly not the English.
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and I've done America a bit of a disservice. I should have worded my reply better, when I said America had little or no impact upon the war, I meant in a combat sense.[There was distrust of the American troops combat readiness and technical skills by the other allied nations. Unfortunately the technically accomplished and combat ready marine corps, were spread all over the globe, defending the US's colonial outposts].
However the arrival of the American troops into the fray demoralised the Germans [who weren't 'winning'] tremendously. And thus helped end the war swifter. But it wasn't until as late as 12/9/1918 that the first ALL American offensive took place. Previously the Americans had just bolstered depleted allied divisions.
In the interests of fairness though, I should point out that large numbers of Americans had been fighting in the British and Canadian armies since the outbreak of the war in 1914.
But you stating that it was the US who won the first world war is, I'm afraid, very wrong.
By the way, the assasination of Archduke Ferdinand was only one, of a number, of factors the caused the conflict. You see, I do know my history. -
why are the britsh so indignant about the place america occupies,as the world leader.especially while they're munching on a big mac and watching some peice of shit studio carnival ride. ive been to britain and i liked it, although i did encounter a lot of people that assumed i was an american loudmouthed asshole, which im not but i can understand why they might think that given all the retarded americans that visit. hey big surprise a lot about america sucks! what country doesnt have shitty aspects about it? why the fuck are you guys arguing about spelling? obi wan duh?man studios could give a fuck about historical accuracy or anything else for that matter other than money-this is news to no one, these are stupid big budget movies geared toward AMERICAN audiences, its ridiculous to think they're going to cater to anyone but US and OUR dumbfucks who pay to see popcorn fests. just because you have all our movies at the local cinema doesnt mean anything is going to be geared toward pleasing you and your countrymen. objectively yes, it would be wonderful for the movie to be historically more accurate, but c'mon man be realistic. to end this let me just say i dig fish'nchips and mike leigh movies,and im sure lots of brits dig hot dogs and martin scorsese movies."furly out"
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I saw on the U 511 movie website pictures that has black American sailors. Was the Navy integrated back then?
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I saw on the U 511 movie website pictures that has black American sailors. Was the Navy integrated back then?
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