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Harry looks at the first real draft of Randall Wallace's screenplay for Michael Bay's PEARL HARBOR
Hey there folks at large, though I am writing this I
guess there may be some doubt as to whether or not
you’ll actually be able to read it. Sigh.... Damn
X-MEN scoops seem to overload the system. So I’ve
decided never to write about THE X-MEN movie
ever again. (Just kidding)
Today I do have something rather interesting for ya.
You see... You’ve perhaps seen a couple of looks at
Michael Bay’s PEARL HARBOR script. I can
remember at least one look over at Dark Horizons.
BUT... that was actually a review of a draft in
progress. What does that mean?
Well, you see a screenwriter often times will write
and get through with a draft... but not be satisfied
with it, so he’ll go back, rework it, and when he or
she is finished and happy.. then they’ll send it out to
their director, producer, studio... whatever the case
may be.
The draft of PEARL HARBOR (aka TENNESSEE)
that had been hitting the script circles of the world,
was actually an unfinished, incomplete draft of
Randall Wallace’s that was never turned in to either
Bay, Bruckheimer or the Mouse House. Wallace’s
assistant was fired and that was that.
But as a result... We’ve never had a review of an
accepted draft of this gigantic project... that is... till
now.
Through trickery and tomfoolery, I have managed to
obtain a 1/13/2000 draft by Randall Wallace of his
original screenplay, which is now titled... PEARL
HARBOR.
Now, in yesterday’s
od Reporter They mentioned that there are
casting discussions and possibilities of having
Charlize Theron, Wes Bentley, Ed Burns, Keri
Russell, Scott Speedman, James Caviezel and Gene
Hackman talking about roles in this film.
Also, Michael Bay and Jerry Bruckheimer have been
in discussions with the Department of Defense, The
Pentagon and the Navy to secure complete
cooperation in bringing this film about. You see...
This isn’t a very cheap movie. Believe me. This
script is a huge film.
The film is not just about PEARL HARBOR. It’s far
larger and ambitious than that.
It isn’t a remake of TORA! TORA! TORA! or FROM
HERE TO ETERNITY. The film also covers what it
was like to be a part of the Americans that
volunteered to be a part of the British formed Eagle
Squadron... which was formed of mainly American
volunteers that went early to fight the Germans during
the early days of the BATTLE OF BRITAIN. It
includes behind the scenes details from both the
American side and the Japanese side... From FDR to
Hirohito... It deals with what happened that fateful
day on Pearl Harbor... and then How we Americans
reacted. And... if you’ve ever seen the excellent movie, THIRTY
SECONDS OVER TOKYO... you’ll know.
This is by far... the most textured and real script that
Michael Bay has had in his hands thus far. Having
said that... there are still a couple of small tidbits here
and there that need tweaking. Mainly having to do
with the one night meeting of Evelyn and Rafe.
Well... perhaps I need to set this all up better than I
have thus far...
The film starts off with the following paragraph...
“As in every dramatic reconstruction, actual
characters and events have been combined and
shaped for clarity; but the events are factual, and we
have made every effort to capture the truth of what
happened, drawing not only from the best historical
works, but from the personal accounts of many who
saw these events through their own eyes, and shaped
them with their courage.”
It then opens in Tennessee in 1926, with two plays
playing like they are in a biplane fighting off an
unseen imaginary enemy. Their plane nothing more
than an old shell of a bi-plane propped up on crates.
The boys are Rafe and Danny.
A pair of wide eyed kids. Innocent. War was this
strange heroic venture that all ‘Men’ took part in.
Basically the film is really about this loss of
innocence. This sense of invincibility that comes
with youth.
They are the best of friends. They type that when one
can’t read so well... the other helps with the
homework, while the other teaches the other how to
fly.
Rafe is the hungrier of the two. Itching to do his
duty. He volunteers for the Eagle Squadron to fight
the Germans, thus splitting the two friends up. On his
night before shipping out to England, Rafe meets
Evelyn... a nurse... My only problem in this entire
116 page script is in her character.
They have one night to fall in love, before their
romance takes the form of war torn love letters. As
their ‘night’ currently consists... it’s mainly an
adventurous romp. With their dialogue mainly
consisting idle chatter. For me, the best single night
dialogue driven love affair came from Kim Krizan
and Richard Linklater’s BEFORE SUNRISE... and
the film desperately needs a realistic soulmate
meeting here at the beginning. It isn’t terrible... it just
isn’t.... IT yet.
However, as soon as Rafe ships out... MAN... this
movie flies. Randall Wallace’s script is filled with all
the right moments. You can feel the kindling
catching fire ‘round the world. You begin to see why
the Japanese had to do, what it is they did. You see
why the Americans didn’t believe that the Japanese
were going to attack Pearl Harbor.
What I love about this script is the fact that these are
not the, “EVIL NIPPONESE” or the “YELLOW
PERIL” as they have so often been portrayed in film.
In fact... perhaps the best line in the entire film
belongs to Yamamoto himself...
Yamamoto has outlined the plan to fill the radio
airwaves with false movements and attack plans to
confuse the Americans, and the resulting clutter
would be indecipherable.
Genda comments to him, “Brilliant, Admiral.”
To which Yamamoto retorts, “A brilliant man would
find a way not to fight a war.”
And I love that this is coming from the ‘insidious
enemy’.
Later still, when Danny shoots down a Jap Zero that
was going to kill men floating in the water after a ship
had been destroyed, he says exasperated to another
pilot through the radio, “They’re even shootin’ guys
floating in the water”
To which the other pilot says, “It’s a war, Danny.
Wake up.”
This sense of things is wonderful to me. I love the
sense of innocence and fairplay that gets crushed by
war. First in Rafe in the Battle of Britain... then in
Danny at Pearl Harbor.
War is not a beautiful thing.
Another thing I really love about this script is this.
You know how Michael Bay likes to show, what
many of his... ummm... critics like to call... Kodak
Moments? You know... like the kid running with the
Space Shuttle, with a dilapidated mural of Kennedy is
on a building in the background in ARMAGEDDON?
Well here... On the morning of December 7th... His
little montage sequences are again applied. But here..
instead of it being just random ‘Hallmark Highlights’
they’re based upon insights from survivors of PEARL
HARBOR... Sort of... their little highlighted
memories... their Polaroids of a terrible moment.
And when we revisit these flashes throughout the
ordeal... we see whether or not these people live or
die. Whether they lose some one or an arm or two.
As a result... these moments are real.
What I like about Evelyn is that she has a sense of
purpose in the script. She isn’t just some dumb
broad. She has to perform a billion decisions as the
victims of Pearl Harbor come in like a flood of torn
flesh and broken bones. She’s forced to choose who
will receive treatment... and who will have to die.
She isn’t just helpless staring at the men who are
getting the job done. And when I called up Bay
Pictures about a problem with her character near the
end of the script where she is turned into that type of
character... It seems that they are at work on this next
draft to strengthen her even more.
Yeah... she’s a woman in love... surrounded by
tragedy. But she’s also a nurse. And she has work to
do. A place to bury her sorrows by comforting and
saving others from their own.
As the script read, it’s already a very large epic film.
If they end up fixing a couple of character things and
that opening romance... then the film will really really
be the homerun that everyone at Disney, Bruckheimer
and Bay pictures want from this.
It’s funny. Robogeek was a tremendous fan of
ARMAGEDDON, but even he was a bit scared of the
‘popcorning’ of history that Michael Bay could have
brought to the film. Well... at least here in this draft
of the screenplay by Randall Wallace... that is not the
case.
They don’t play up the Japanese or the Germans as
ultimate evil bastards. Even the heroes in the film...
they are just regular joes that did their jobs in a very
irregular time.
I can see why SPYGLASS is chomping at the bit to
get this film from DISNEY if Eisner were to chicken
out on it.
I’ll continue to follow this film all the way through
production, as it is the largest WWII movie that I’ve
been around to see being made. And I just hope they
nail it. The events that they are bringing to life are
times so a part of historic memory that they need to
be treated with the sense of fairness that Randall
Wallace has given them.
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i'm glad you addressed my worry about Bey popcorning this movie. that has been my biggest fear. I hope he gives it the depth and respect it deserves
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I love everything Michael Bay does, which is blow shit up real good. Hopefully, this could do for him what the Patriot will do for Devlin/Emmerich, and that is make people realize these guys are no hacks. So what if they make movies that serve as special-effects showcases. The movies they make are fun, and hopefully their next films will be big "fuck you's" to those who always shit on their life's work.
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God, this is going to be a great film, not only box office-wise, but artistically and entertainment-wise. This is going to rock. Also, comapring Tora, Tora, Tora's battle scenes with todays computer really shows how much they could get out of this.
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I read once that the amount of steel and iron that sank to the bottom of Pearl Harbor after the attack was in the thousands of tons. I further read that it was going to take years for conventional scrape barges to remove all the material and that the Navy was looking into other non-practical ways to clear the obstructions faster. Too bad THE IRON GIANT showed up 10 years later because with His appetite He could have eaten every sunk ship within a matter of hours. That would have been a very non-practical way to clear the harbor.
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What the hell does that have ANYTHING to do w/ this movie? I mean, yea, it was a wonderful film, but geez... I dunno; I'm overeacting because it's late.
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This movie sounds extremely interesting and I think it'll be cool to see the battle at Pearl Harbor given the Micheal Bay touch. I'm glad to see that they're treating the script with the same amount of care that they take with special effects. I may be one of the few people on this site who actually enjoyed "Armegeddon." It could have been better but you can say that about almost every movie. It hit all the notes it was intended to hit. But I'm glad to see Micheal Bay graduate to more adult material. We need a good WWII movie that doesn't rely too heavily on sentimental flag waving like "Private Ryan" did. We never get to see WWII from a perspective that doesn't paint the bad guys as wholly evil. More screenwriters need to remember that no one is completely bad or good. There are shades of gray to everybody.
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on the ceiling and get to the bottom of it.. him labouring slow on me like plastic water pressure...I can't see him as Spiderman, but maybe the real Armand...Is the hitman from Fallen Angels in Pearl Harbour????? Harry you could call me a groupy if you like.. there are times i cant help but turn on when you write.. I even occasionally consider overlooking what must surely be PR stimuli...
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I love your Iron Giant gimmick, but maybe you should use it sparingly before it gets old...
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Since SPR was mentioned, I just wanted to say something about the "evil guys". The movie was publicized as being authentic to the maximum possible extent. Though, when I watched it, I did not discover one decent German. They all were these bad-ass nazis, that enjoyed killing, and even killed the ones that let them get away before. The one thing thet i would really love to see in a war-movie, is the good and bad side of the people participating. No matter if they're Americans, Germans, Britains or Japanese. It was this stereotyping that really pissed me of, while watching SPR. it completely ruined this "realistic" movie for me.
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in advance for any future subtle advice. You seem to excel at posting in self-consciously ugly drips, always attacking someone. As for issuing a rallying cry with the 'greatest hits' post, flubbing facts does not a smart statement make. And finally on behalf of all the orientals and Iron Giant fans, Im sure we at talk back are all immune to your 'acerbic barbs of wit'.
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....that the chances of this movie working, especially with Bey at the helm, are slim to none. This is the man who made "Armagedeon"; he has a talent for movie trailers, but not for making actual movies.
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Come on. This is RANDALL WALLACE. The man most responsible for the laughable dialogue and situations of BRAVEHEART and MAN IN THE IRON MASK. I know, you diehard BRAVEHEART people will ride into my bedroom in a shroud of flames on a jet-black horse and stab me to death with a 4' sword, but watch that movie for the dialogue. Just the pure, stupid silliness of it. Honestly, Gibson's direction of the film saved a lot of face, but overall the story was terrible. (The last thing, no matter how much I love my country, that I am going to shout out as my entrails are ripped from my body is "FREEEDDOOMMM!") I won't even go near MAN, as we all know it sucked, the characterizations sucked and the dialogue took a turn for the worse. Randall Wallace may be a master at the action-description, but nailing several, good, strong, well written characters is not his forte. Especially when Harry's highlights of the script are: "A brilliant man would find a way not to make war" (I'm paraphrasing, so sue me). Good lord, I see my eyes rolling so far back into my sockets, I can almost read the facial expression of the person behind me in the theater. No thanks. Besides, I can't imagine where Spyglass would find the financing (not to that degree). Especially after Eisner pushed a Joe Roth out of his position because he green-lighted this movie at $145 million. Too much politics, too little imagination behind this film. Yech.
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Harry, you can not defend Michael Bey with a script he didn't even write. And don't bother walking on eggshells with comparisons to "From Here to Eternity", which is widely acknowledged as one of the most undeserving Best Picture winners, right up there with Dances With Wolves, How Green Was My Valley, Mrs. Miniver, and a slew of others. Fred Zinneman was a total fucking hack so I'm not offended by comparisons. What I am offended by is attempting to highlight Michael Bey as a credible filmmaker. I enjoyed The Rock as much as the next guy, but PLEASE. This guy is part of the New Hollywood that people fear. Style over substance, and not even in a cool way like the Coen Brothers. Armageddon was a floating Brownie, and I have zero confidence that this whore's next Product will be anything different. Michael Bey should resign himself to making videos for full-of-themselves hip-hop artists and forget about creating anything substantial.
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Too bad the script seems to be such a conglomeration of make believe. Hopefully they'll hire a decent military consultant to make the film a little bit believeable. Three Kings was fun, but the military stuff was all crap. Worse than the "General's Daughter."
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the problems with armageddon?
THE SCRIPT
The Rock?
THE SCRIPT
Bay is a good action director,
he just needs a good script
my real worry here is that the film is going to make out that 'the american boys' won the battle of britain, Now looking at armageddon and its 'yay america' depiction of how the whole world loves the states, it doesn't sound promising.
But harry says that these montages are based on actual events this time, which is encouraging.
What i really wanna know is if harry knows anymore of the details about the battle of britain elements and about how it depicts the actions of america and japan. Does it show how japan was put in an awkward position by america? does it show how Roosevelt and some others were secretly relieved by the attack so they had an excuse to enter WW2 now?
i just hope it doesn't copy Thin Red Line and Das Boot too much. The soldiers left to drown and loss of innocence etc.
how many people did actually see TTRL anyway?
now i've never been to war, so i have no frame of refference, but how many people who have watch war movies? SPR was over rated in that dept. -
If it is a great script, that's terrific. Take it away from Michael Bay and give it to a real director. I have this awful vision running through my head of Japanese planes dropping their bombs as some oh-so-catchy, pull-your-heartstrings Aerosmith ballad plays in the background. This guy is a hack, Armageddon is without a doubt one of the worst movies ever made, and we cannot allow him to cheapen the memory and historical impact of one of the most important events in American history. This guy's modus operandi is to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Therefore a subject as important as this cannot be left in the hands of Hollywoods reigning schlockmeister. If the script is really that good, there should be no trouble finding a decent director to direct the film. Bay is simply unacceptable.
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Jan 26, 2000 8:58:53 AM CST
Randall Wallace: The writer behind Pearl Harbor and With Wings A
by abking
Randall Wallace is the writer responsible for two of the greatest WWII screenplays ever written: PEARL HARBOR and WITH WINGS AS EAGLES. It is a pitty that PEARL HARBOR was made first, but I can't wait to see it. Wallace, if you are reading this (and chances are, you are) please talk with James Cameron or Paul Verhoeven about directing WITH WINGS AS EAGLES with Arnold Schwarzenegger. The screenplay for WWAE is a "must make" masterpiece.
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This will be nothing more than a sanitized version of events that do not deserve to be given the "Disney treatment". Do you really think Disney is willing to spend 145 million on something that depicts the real ugliness of war? My bet is that we'll get "Titanic Too!!" chock-filled with romantic drekk between two "hot teenage" leads, big explosions, an Aerosmith ballad, some slo-mo, and a U.S Navy stamp of approval. Bay should go back to schilling Tacos and Levis....it's some of his best work.
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Has anyone noticed the annoying female characters who are in his films for no reason other then to have close ups of them crying and looking sad. The Rock was good except for Nic Cage's GF in it. Damn she was a piece of shit, what a stupid part in it. How about Liv tyler? my god the way they tacked on that romance to try to bring a female audience into a male oriented summer action pic made me sick! It was sooooooo damn phoney. And that animal cracker scene is the least sexiest i've ever seen in my life. Harry knowles himself has produced sexier things in his bathroom after 3 bran muffins and 4 cups of coffee.
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Jan 26, 2000 9:13:24 AM CST
"The Winds of War 3: War and Remembrance 2: Pearl Harbor"
by smilin'jackruby
But with a Michael Bay-sized bucket of money and bucket of schmaltz. This movie is going to do well no matter what anyone says as it will be "Saving Private Ryan" meets "Armageddon" by way of Herman Wouk which is PRECISELY the equation the studios would kill for in a WWII film right about now.
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Harry, I'm glad it's a good full script with only a few week points, but this is a Bruckheimer/Bay production. Do you honestly believe that the script you read is what's going to make it to theatres? They're going to cut the hell out of it before and after it films. With that kind of money being put into it and those two soul-less bastards in charge, it'll be a dumbed down series of men jumping away from fireball explosions while rattling off quippy one liners. Until, I'm proven wrong, I'll stick with my TORA! TORA! TORA! DVD, which by the way, treats the Japanese assault force as professional military men with regrets, not the stereotypical yellow menace. Give it a second look.
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I agree with all of you. I am so sick and tired of seeing damn Americans as the "good guys", as John Wayne, as always fighting evil.
The Nazi's and Japanese were all as much decent people as americans were, they loved thier familes and thier country just as much as americans loved the U.S. . And becuase they DID love thier country, america fought and destroyed them! Even dropping atom bombs on Japan for cripe's sake!!!!!
Go check out Godzilla vs. Ghidra (90 version) to see a GREAT rendering of Anti-Americanism in WW2 at it's greatest! I laughed so hard! It's about time we see the American GI as the dumb assinided white trash red-neck as they were. -
The Japanese were not forced into WWII by the US. Unless you count our unwillingness to allow them to take over French Indochina, the rest of China,the Dutch East Indies, Thailand, the Phillipines, Burma, and perhaps Australia as "forcing" them to war. Much as the German Army developed the "stab in the back" story to explain its sudden collapse in WWI, the US Navy and Army have always wanted to blame someone else for Pearl Harbor. Sure Washington knew something was coming, but where and when was anybody's guess. Besides, Roosevelt wanted to fight Hitler, not Japan.
In retrospect, Yamamato was a fool and highly overated. If he had stuck to the original battle plan of attacking south through the Phillipines, we might not have gone to war at all. But his attack on Pearl Habor united the country like nothing else could. His battle plan for Midway was also inherently flawed. -
This fucker almost sounds like it could be winner. Well alright.
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When reading the script did you happen to notice whether there was actually going to be any British characters in the film. I mean we all know that the Americans were the ones that saved us in the battle of Britain (there were no Spitfires in the air at that time) and that they were the only nationality that took part in the Normandy landings (SPR??). Hell even when it comes to fighting Aliens we have to wait until the Americans find out how to bring one of the ships down (Independance Day).
It's fortunate that your country has so much money to spend on huge films that you have your opportunity to re-write history so that you always save the day!
Fantastic. -
"It's a film, Randall. Show, don't tell!" Tell you what, I'm going to be completely dismissive and judgemental of this project until opening day, if only because I'm still irate with Michael Bay over his scuttling BAD BOYS 2. Man, $145 million is a lot of scratch for a movie that's going to end with Americans getting their asses handed to them by the Japanese. To protect their investment, Spyglass should hire John Milius to bang out a revisionist draft, meaning he should lighten up the unavoidably dour finale by having the Wolverines from RED DAWN save the day. C'mon, that would be *so* kickass! Oh, and Lazarus..... FROM HERE TO ETERNITY might've been a stretch as Best Picture, but it did feature a phenomenal performance by Montgomery Clift.
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We saved y'er ass in WWII, but you saved our ass in WWIII.
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OK, I'll take the ID4 slam, that's a fair one for a foreigner to criticize. As for SPR, nowhere is the point ever made that the Americans alone won the war. That was a movie about a specific group of American soldiers, it only stands to reason that it would be a little Amero-centric. If you want to bitch at people who selectively rewrite history to their own advantage, take your potshots at the French. Hell, I've had conversations with deluded French souls who are convinced that DeGaulle led the D-Day landings and Leclerc led the drive to Paris. Leclerc only entered Paris first because Eisenhower allowed him to. He had to restrain Patton to keep him from entering first (which he could have done way in advance of Leclerc, as Patton was at the head of the offensive and Leclerc was bringing up the rear. But besides any of that, anyone who knows anything about WWII knows that neither the Americans, the British and certainly not the French won WWII, the Soviets did. Any suffering that the British and French went through is completely insignificant compared to what the average Soviet citizen went through. True, their suffering was exacerbated by the ineptitude and evil of the Stalin regime. Hell, the French switched sides faster than it took DeGaulle to run away from the fight with his tail between his legs. I respect the British and what they did during the war. I have never thought of the war in the ETO as an American operation, but rather an Anglo-American operation. But be honest with yourself and admit that from 1942 onwards, the Americans took the lead as far as the Western Powers were concerned.
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Sorry If I caused offence as I'm not one of those xenophobic idiots that you often hear bitching.
I just think that sometimes things go a little to far and are a bit to steriotypical and sadly it was Independance day that confounded that. I mean for god's sake there were the British sitting about drinking tea and going 'Bravo' when they heard the news, but we had it easy compared to the Russians who were all hudled up around a 1920's ham radio. I'm just supprized that they all didn't celebrate by eating their one and only potato!
Damn that film. -
Harry, this sounds like a fucking awesome movie. I mean this is beginning to sound like a masterpiece, like Michael Bay's ultimate creation. The man who brought us BAD BOYS and THE ROCK is going to bring us one of the best war movies ever made. The cast just sounds like pure genius baby!!!!This sounds to good to be true Harry, I hope Michael Bay doesn't let us down.
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It was posted at my site FlixBurg, USA. Dark Horizons was courteous enough to plug it. Now, I am a screenwriter, Harry, so I don't need the writers' process explained to me. I know a draft that is being worked on from a draft that is meant to be seen. And let me tell you, the draft I read was NOT incomplete as you say above. It WAS a finished draft with scene numbers plugged in so that the producers could budget it. That means they used the draft I reviewed so Disney could figure out how much it would cost and whether or not it was ready to proceed. That makes it a draft worthy of judgment and NOT some incomplete half-ass thing the writer had locked away. Now I, too, have heard Bay Films' lame explanation about the draft I covered not really being a script but that is a deluded denial of near Clintonian proportions. "It depends on what your definition of a draft is." I NEVER said in my review that this was the final script; I was very clear all along in my review that this was a work in progress that still needed a LOT of basic, fundamental work done on its characters, dialogue, and plotting. I am glad that Wallace trimmed it down and improved it as it desperately needed it. Now, the draft I read was from about the time that the industry trades first made announcements back in October about the project's budget and its potential starting date of spring 2000. The producers and studio obviously came up with that original $145M figure by budgeting a draft of the script. That means this draft I reviewed WAS meant to be seen -- at least to the money men. Thie draft I read was relatively polished and had scene numbers listed for budget breakdown purposes (earlier drafts don't have these because they are not yet ready for that). So this draft was a legit, completed script but it WAS a work in progress as I always said it was. It was as legit a draft to review as your early Koepp draft of SPIDER-MAN was and you tore that apart even though it is now being rewritten by another scribe. Or the drafts of UNBREAKABLE and SHERLOCK HOLMES AND THE VENGEANCE OF DRACULA that AICN covered and critiqued. Basically, my point to you is that Bay's cover story about the draft I read and reviewed not being a draft is simply a crock. This is just PR spin on his behalf. As an American history buff and a fan of Braveheart, I am still rooting for this film and even for Michael Bay to prove he can do other types of films besides loud, dumb comic book-level movies. And since I was once a tipster for you, Harry, at least show some common courtesy to me and get the source of that first PEARL HARBOR review in question right: http://welcome.to/flixburg.
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STAX
Subject: HARRY: I wrote that first PEARL HARBOR review in question ...
moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,
moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,
moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,
moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,
moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan,moan, moan, moan.
Stop crying like a girl. -
apology accepted.
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I read the Stax review. He did point out numerous times that it was a first draft and that there was a good premise that needed some major tune-ups. As for all the criticism that SPR only depicted the Germans as evil, I didn't get that at all. The Germans were a faceless enemy in almost every scene, except the one where Jeremy Davies' character tries to prevent the SS soldier from being executed. In this scene, we saw him as a scared man, begging for his life. Not a monster. Yes, he later kills Tom Hanks' character, but he was "doing his job." It wasn't that he was evil necessarily. He was killing American soldiers, just as the Americans were killing German soldiers. The movie brought the war down to a very human level. It wasn't about strategy or about the historical significance of the war on a national level. It was about the significance of the war on a PERSONAL level. If ever a film was robbed of a Best Picture win, it was Private Ryan.
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Jan 26, 2000 12:15:10 PM CST
For the U.S. citizens that like history rewritten so they can "d
by dodge manhunter
Santos Dumont
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Harry, this film is more politically correct horsedung. Can't anything remain sacred? Leave Tora, Tora, Tora alone. The japs were evil bastards who murdered uncounted chinese civilian before slaughtering our sailors in Pearl. BTW, FDR was a frigging traitor. I reccomend you read "Day of Deceit." As to PC fags on this site, I suggest that actually speak with a veteran of the death march before you start touting about the poor japs.
yellow peril out -
What was the point of all that anyway? At least his post had some insights and value to it. Yours just seemed like a foolish teenager kinda comeback. The purpose of the original post that YOU are now crying like a girl over seemed to be to clarify a point Harry made in his review. That's all. Why does that bug you so much and what are you really contributing to this discussion that is so much more deserving of our attention than Stax? Not much it seems.
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Who was first? Santos Dumont or the Wright Brothers? What does that have to do with this talkback? While we're on the subject of Pearl Harbor, I'd like to also discuss the Duke of Wellington.
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OK, what is Santos Dumont, other than a city in Brazil? I going to have to ask you to elaborate on that one.
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japan had little or no choice as it would have war declared on it when it broke the trade sanctions, so it was forced into a conflict with america so america could help out britain and europe.
Americans majority didn't give 2 shits about europe in 1940
fact not fiction -
am i'm paranoid or is this guy bustin my balls? man a lot of you folks got to lay off mr. bay and mr. bruckhiemer. all of brucks films, whether you admit it or not are fun, action packed, tell a good story, and MAKE YOU THINK! Look at crimsion tide and enemy of the state. both helmed by scott who is an excellent director that even makes riddley jealous. those movies leave an lasting impression because that shit could actually happen. PH appears to have a great srcipt with a fine producer and director attached. you will all get your moneys worth when you go and see it. and i guarantee everyone who is bashing bay's nuts will go and see this film when it opens because of all the hype it will get and then talk shit about it afterwards because you know your wrong but you got to save face and back your shit up. the cast looks awesome especialy if he gets hackmen to play roosevelt. jimmy c and ed burns would be great as the pilots but drop theron with the anker and give us judd or paltrow!
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Am I mistaken in thinking Wallace was responsible for the diabolical Braveheart and Man in the Iron Mask? And wasn't Bay responsible for Bad Boys, The Rock and Armageddon ?
They're all shit to a man!
Why is ANYONE excited about a project from these two antichrists?
Please, do not forgive past sins.
These two should be consigned to the bin along with Emmerich and Devlin!! -
Harry I don't mean to be a prick. I really don't. But Good Lord, Man, hire an editor for your postings! Your grammatical errors smacked me in the face like an irritated Mike Tyson. I know the suits in Hollywood and all the cynical sixteen year old "fanboys" think "Harry RULES!", but those of us with any knowledge of the English language can only cringe at your and your "insiders" dearth of writing ability.
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The film indeed sounds as if it could do to Pearl Harbor what James Cameron did to that boat. Also, the crowd at which it will be aimed -- the crowd that actually liked "Armageddon" -- knows nothing about Pearl Harbor and World War II. It will be fresh to them. But older audiences will have seen it all before, in a much more economical shooting style than throw-the-kitchen-sink-at-you Bay has exhibited. And no Liv Tyler, please.
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I just wanted to dash people's hopes here for the PEARL HARBOUR project. If BAY is involved, kiss the script goodbye, because by the time he is done with it, it will have turned into a green pile of steaming cheezewiz.
Bay is one of the worst new directors out there, how he gets a gig I don't know, but Armageddon was the woste dumbass movie I have EVER seen. (Its also the only movie I have ever walked out on.)
If he is involved in PEARL HARBOR, and I love war movies, I will be staying away.
It makes me sad...soo many directors that are actually good, and BAY gets this script. What a bunch of moroons.
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lets face it
the ONLY reason this film has a huge budget is cos Bay is one of those directors who needs money instead of creativity.
if they got a REAL director onboard and got a decent writer this could be a classic, smells like popcorn to me -
Jan 26, 2000 3:41:27 PM CST
This really sounds like the same script Stax reviewed a while ba
by keeper
At least it seems bedeviled by the same problems - plenty of brilliant moments but marred by crude character development and the generic romantic triangle. Whoever said that John Sayles ought to be contracted to plug the holes in this leaky ship was thinking in the right direction. Looking to finance his own independent works, I'm sure Sayles would be delighted to share in all the wealth Disney will probably shovel into this project.
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If he got to re-write "Pearl Harbor," that would rock. Won't happen, but that would be hysterically funny.
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I did not read Harry's report, because I don't want to be spoiled. But I will say, I read an early draft of Wallace's script for BRAVEHEART, and it totally lagged. It lacked all the good dialogue between William Wallace and Muron, and was just generally about five levels below what the final movie turned out to be. Who made the changes, I don't know. But whoever it was, they need to hire him for PEARL HARBOR!!!
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Jan 26, 2000 5:29:59 PM CST
"I hope you washed your arse this morning, because it's about to
by funmazer
What a shock. I clicked this link thinking "Gee, wonder if this new script will be A TON better and ready to become a kick-butt movie!" Yup, sure enough. This site is so predictable. Ah... for good old days... So, did any of you SEE "Armageddon"? I finally did last month, for the first time. WHAT A POS! It was TERRIBLE! I like "The Rock", sure, but Armageddon BLEW! And I must say I tried to walk out of "Bad Boys" Got up to leave, but the person with me said "Ben, you didn't bring your own car." and I sat back down thinking 'dammit!'. But, you're only as good as your last movie, and "Armageddon" was an abomination. I commented during it "I never knew the end of the world could be so boring". I think Gene Siskel gave it a thumbs up only because his show is made by Buena Vista. ANYWAY! This movie will blow. It will blow blow BLOW! As surely as X-Men will blow, this movie will blow. But, as far as this Web Site is concerned, the only movie that BLEW in recent history is "Inspector Gadget". Uh, huh, right. MOST MOVIES SUCK!
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You're welcome. I realize that I'm the only one who has ever responded to any of your posts. Sadly, you were never much of a capable or entertaining sparring partner, so I've gotten bored of you. Yep, that means from now on you'll just be posting to yourself. Maybe one day, you'll actually post something PERTAINING TO THE TOPIC....probably not...Ah I wish JJ Gittes would return....
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Jan 26, 2000 8:22:30 PM CST
...And I don't want to miss a thing. 'Cuz even when I try--yeow
by lester diamond
This is when things get really serious, man. When hacks like Bay or Devlin & Emmerich can fuck with our history. Most people get all of their history from movies, so it will be a crying shame to listen to the erroneous "facts" gained from these flicks.
It doesn't even matter how good the script is. Have you read David Marconi's first draft of ENEMY OF THE STATE? That could have been the next CONVERSATION. And it was still pretty good. But it was 50% worse from being Bruckheimerized like a music video. Can a scene be over two minutes in his movies? And I love how he cultivates "talent" like Mikey Bay. But I am looking forward to GONE IN 60 SECONDS. Even the Bruck can make that cool.
And Lazarus Long is a moron. Fred Zinneman is a hack? Have you ever seen a little picture called THE DAY OF THE JACKAL? How about A MAN FOR ALL SEASONS or JULIA. An underrated director if there ever was one. I'm sorry guys, I'm just mad. -
I also read the version of the script Harry read, and I must say it is interesting. I agreed with Harry on the most part, and with a bit of tweaking, it should turn out to be a strong script. Definitely an event film.
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That would fix the problem of the romance. Any movie budgeted at 145 mil conservatively will have way to much to live up to. There seems like there is to much story going on and to many situations going on for this to actually be a sohesive story. ANyone else notice that harry is now a script consultant calling up bay films.
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I really don't understand why so many people hate Michael Bay. People say that he can't make a serious movie, that everything he directs is a popcorn movie. How would you know he can't direct a serious movie? He's never tried. Bad Boys was the typical buddy-cop movie, although I found his visual style very creative in a world full of Lethal Weapons and 48 hours. The Rock was a great movie, but it was an action movie, intent on over the top stunts, car chases, and gunplay. Armageddon was a sci-fi/action movie. Sure there was an attempt at drama thrown in, but at it's base it was an action movie. If you didn't like those movies, fine. I just find it very closed-minded to assume that he can't direct a drama when you haven't seen it. When this movie comes out, if it sucks, if it was popcorn, if it didn't have a shred of decent material in it, say it then. But until then, I would hope that all of you would reserve your judgements. I will admit, I am a huge Bay fan. I love his movies, his commercials, and his videos. They are entertaining to me. (And no, his movies aren't the only movies I like. I am not a brainless testosterone junkie who doesn't watch anything but action movies. I just enjoy action movies among many genres.) That being said, I am NOT going to say that Pearl Harbor is going to be the greatest movie ever made. That's stupid. I don't know. And neither do you. It may suck. It may be good. I'll be open minded about it, because that makes sense and it's fair to the filmakers. Go see the movie. You might actually like it. (God forbid!) I bet every person on this board has gone to a movie thinking you would hate it and ended up liking it. This might be one of them. You never know. The world is is strange place.
Ed -
...but in the world of AICN, it is far easier to sit back and say "It's gonna suck" than it is to actually have an open mind.
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Michael should not have made Armageddon. He did co-write the script, and he did bow to the wishes of Mattel (the guns on the drills). I lost a lot of respect for him listening to the commentary on the Criterion DVD. Can you believe they green-lighted Armageddon before the script was even writte? Well, enough about that, in defense of Michael, "The Rock" is one of the best action movies of all time. His film "Bad Boys" remains the only movie that made Martin Lawrence tolerable, and actually funny. Best of luck to Bruckheimer and Bay, I hope that this film is truly great! I don't believe this film will be anything like their past work, it will be more of a drama than an action film I'm sure.
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Did you clone yourself or is one of your bastard children loose? ... Sorry. I just thought that sounded good.
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Michael Bay is the second coming of christ, the messiah of cinema, a god to be worshipped. With every frame of his films I view, I feel that much nearer the creator. Anyone who dares criticize the works of this visionary should be condemned to an eternity of films by John Cassavetes, Ingmar Bergman, Akira Kurosawa, John Ford, Orson Welles, and other filmmakers who have not an ounce of the ability Michael Bay posesses in an atom on the fingernail of his right pinky. Bay is God...Bruckheimer his prophet...Harry his disciple...and I am humbled by their divine blinding light...FORGIVE ME FATHER! FOR I HAVE SINNED!!!
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it's very funny that a lot of people trashing this movie and it's filmmakers, will buy into the razzle-dazzle trailer and head for the theaters and pay $9, and then moan and bitch about how horrible it was. But as we say in La-La Land: "Mission accomplished."
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Harry, if you'll pardon my saying so, you must have lost your fucking mind. LET'S SEE NOW... We've got the "childhood flashback/friends to the end" exposition scene. We've got the "Titanic"-derived, "one night of passion before total disaster" love affair. And we've got THE WORST fucking dialogue this side of - surprise, surprise - "Armageddon", Bay's last putrescent piece of pap. "It's a war, Danny. Wake up." JESUS. And, last but not least, we've got the historically flattering, "hey we're all the same; no nation is morally superior to any other" portrayal of the Japanese. "The Thin Red Line" took this approach, and look how THAT turned out. This is the nation that BOMBED Pearl Harbor in a dastardly sneak attack in the first place. This is the nation that allied itself with Hitler and Mussolini to conquer and divvy up the entire world. To the Japanese troops, the Emperor was, basically, GOD, and they fought with a zeal reserved for soldiers in a holy crusade, displaying a brutality rivaled by few armies in the annals of war. From December 7, 1941, throughout the war, there was TONS of anti-"Jap" propaganda everywhere you turned; why do I get the horrible feeling that that will be ignored too, in the name of "sensitivity"? All they have left to do now is cast Ben Affleck as Rafe and James van der Beek as Danny, and get some washed-up band like Metallica to sing some horrible fucking love ballad (don't laugh - at the rate that band is going, THEY'D DO IT), and they'll have their movie. SOMEBODY STOP THIS FUCKING HACK MICHAEL BAY NOW, before he completely dishonors the memories of the 2500 brave men who died at this tragic event.
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FDR and top Pentagon officials did know the attack was coming, but not for too long. A cruise boat and fisherman accidentally ran into the entire Japanese naval contigent two days before the bombs fell. Consequently the carriers that were in the harbor were sent out to sea, but the battleships were left behind, because they were expendible. Alot of guys wanted the Japanese attack to be successful, but not too successful. Just enough to outrage the public to declare war on both the Japanese and Hitler....As far as the European operations, well, the Russians suffered mightly(20,000,000 dead) but the Russians were very dependent on the movements of US and British. The russians had only one advantage, tanks, their model 34 was better than the Panzer 3-5 models the Germans had. Eventually the Germans invented the model 5 and 6(Tiger and Panther) but could never get enough of them to the Russian front because Rommel needed a division of them to prevent any possible US British landing. But the US enjoyed not only air superiority, but naval superiority over the Germans. And it was going to get worse because we were rapidly devolping the B-29 long range bomber, and the A-bomb, two things we would have that the Germans wouldn't, a powereful weapon, and means to deliver it from long distances(the B-29 was designed to operate from the continental USA).
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I hope the disappearance of my first virtiolic post was a mistake. I can't spew some venom about a film maker I despise because you're a fan of his work, yet you let a racist like yellow peril go on a hate-mongering diatribe about "The Evil Japs". -- Hypocrisy; the false assumption of an appearance of virtue.
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First, on the script: Sadly I must side with many here in that the movie will resemble the later batmans, ID, etc in short photo moments and neat inappropriate one-liners thrown in. but, sadly one-liners effects over a realistic plot is how the business is these days. I still look forward to the movie though.
Second: Those who apparently didn't get their $$ worth at college: This goes out to several history "buffs" here who quote "fact" but get get everything wrong. A) FDR did not know of the attack nor did the Secretary of War. If anything they were expecting hostilities in and around Manilla. {NWC archives}
B) Japan did not HAVE to attack. Let see, the Emperor/God on earth of the Tokugawa line wanted more lands, more people to be a despot ruler over and more resources for his nation. Thus the invasion of mainland china and the testing of primitive biological and chemical weapons upon the native populaces. But no, that doesn't make all of the Japaneese people evil, just the emperor and his cronies. {If we had invaded instead of dropping the bombs the casualties would have been more than Shiloh and Gettysburg combined}
C) to Norcal, Scott1548: The allies did NOT want/expect the invasion... The aircraft carriers were performing their usual monthy workups. Go look it up! (national archives)AND the T-34 tank did not enter the battlefield till mid/late 1942. further, that 20,000,00 number of the Soviets dead? *sigh* That was the numnber of CIVILIANS killed by Stalin over his reighn as head murderer. the german invasion resulted in 1.5 to 2mil. depending upon who you ask. The 20million number is widly toted, but usually by conservative groups trying to point out the evils of socialism.
God how I hate people who don't really learn history, they learn the PC version and invent facts to support their argument. Can anyone guess what my major in college was? -
Last time I checked, trailers are supposed to *lure* people into seeing the movie. I doubted anyone will go see a movie with a trailer a la "citizen kane." You just don't get it. In the end, it's all about money and entertainment...or am I in the wrong planet? No seriously. Cause this idealistic thought, for your information, is not prevalent in Hollywood. Of course, you already knew that, right? Let me tell you a little story. When I spoke to Bay, I asked him why didn't he include more sexual content in his movie and at least show some skin. You know what he told me? "It's gotta be rated pg so more people could go see it." End of story."
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Finally, someone who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about before they talk. Another reason to not be overy sypathetic with the Japanese position in WWII: by 1941 the Japanese had been occupying Korea as a hostile force for over 35 years. While in Korea they engaged in brutalities such as murder, abduction of children, suppressing the use of the Korean language, and, most notoriously, rape of Korean women (a practice they called "comfort women" for their poor soldiers far from home). I do not believe the Japanese are evil - they are like any other group of people, most good, a few nuts, etc. However, the Japanese government and army at that time pursued an aggressive policy of conquer and subjugate, and was guilty of some of the most heinous warcrimes of the 20th century. Yamamoto, while an excellent admiral, shares the same guilt as men like Rommel and Robert E. Lee. The desire to fight for your homeland does not excuse a man for fighting to support a government's ambition to continue atrocities such as the rape of Korea, the Holocaust of Europe, or slavery.
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