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Klingon bastard! You killed my Behind the Scenes Pic of the Day!

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with today’s Behind the Scenes Pic!

It’s hard to follow up one of Star Trek’s best movies (and movie villains), but I quite like Search for Spock. I dig that it’s not an island unto itself, but the continuing story of Wrath of Khan, I dig Doc Brown as a pissed off Klingon, I dig the more central focus of Bones in the story… and I dig a rather spoilerific moment that my headline alludes to.

It’s also interesting as Leonard Nimoy finally got to direct, no doubt in return for returning to the franchise. Word is that Shatner wasn’t too hot that Nimoy got to direct before he did, but the picture today shows no tension between the two.

Hope you enjoy the shot! Click to slightly embiggen!



If you have a behind the scenes shot you’d like to submit to this column, you can email me at

Tomorrow’s behind the scenes pic is coming for you.

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Click here to visit the complete compilation of previous Behind the Scenes images, Page One

Click here to visit the complete compilation of previous Behind the Scenes images, Page Two!

Readers Talkback
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  • Aug. 6, 2011, 8:53 p.m. CST

    Well we saw what happened when Shat did direct.

    by Pixelsmack

    I like the play between friends (Kirk, Spock, McCoy) shown in Trek5. The campfire stuff was a lot of character building for the trio. But that's about it.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 8:54 p.m. CST

    Quint, i wholeheartedly agree

    by montessaurus

    While not "Wrath Of Khan" levels of classic, "The Search For Spock" is one of my favorites with the original cast. The theft of the Enterprise is easily one of my favorites sequences of any movie, period. Also, DAT SOUNDTRACK.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 8:57 p.m. CST

    - "The word is no"

    by montessaurus

    I am therefore going anyway

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:01 p.m. CST

    I... Have had...

    by cornponious

    Enough of YOU

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:03 p.m. CST

    did they really search for spock?

    by mick vance

    i mean, they knew where they dumped his ass? shouldn't it have just been the retrieval of spock?

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:03 p.m. CST


    by Denty420

    Because you wish it!

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:04 p.m. CST

    I got to meet Christopher Lloyd

    by SpazMatic1074

    He's very cool. Seemed tired. But cool. I got his autograph. Was at Supermegafest last year.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:09 p.m. CST

    Count me among the lovers of this odd numbered ST movie

    by iakobos

    It's true that it not as good as either of the two movies the bookend it but it's a necessary part of the cannon and one that I still enjoyed. The Voyage Home, however, is my favorite of all of them, them being movies with the original cast.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:10 p.m. CST

    I meant to say "that bookend it"

    by iakobos

    So much for no edit button.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:16 p.m. CST

    Dodgy score, but I liked the film overall.

    by davidwebb

    And Shatner's attempt? It meant we got that moment at the end of ST:V, where he reminds Spock and Bones that he lost a brother once, alluding to Spock. A truly great moment in a sea of shit.

  • But, heck, I loved TMP

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:20 p.m. CST

    May get weird looks over this -

    by montessaurus

    but my favorite Trek to this day is 6, "The Undiscovered Country". I think Lt Valeris pushed me to puberty a couple years ahead of my time...

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:21 p.m. CST

    The scene where he is told of David's death...

    by Superponte

    was some of the finest acting the man has ever done. This was the first Trek film that I was really aware of on release (I was 5) and I always look back on it fondly.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:22 p.m. CST

    Trek III had a shitload going for it.

    by Mugato5150

    The first appearance of the "new" Klingons (besides the first 2 minutes of Trek I). Doc Brown's big breasted female. The first appearance of the Klingon Bird of Prey, which would be used constantly right through the Next Generation. Kirk stealing the Enterprise. Kirk blowing up the Enterprise. Sulu as a faaaabulous James Bond character. Kirk's pussy son getting killed. Sure, there's the minor plot hole of "Hey science guys, since you're the only ones who can go to Genesis, can you pick up Spock's carcass and bring it to Vulcan so we don't have to commit treason by doing it ourselves?". But no story is perfect.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:22 p.m. CST


    by TheSeeker7

    tomorrow's BTS pic? as in... 1,2, Freddy's comin' for you...

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:23 p.m. CST


    by Superponte

    He was not talking about the death of spock, but Kirk's actual Brother- Sam

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:24 p.m. CST

    What is..."Massachusetts Slim?"

    by zillabeast

    You know, like the shirt says.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:25 p.m. CST


    by Superponte

    I still have marks made from thinking of Lt. Valeris. love the lack of sideburns...wrowr

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:25 p.m. CST

    but as for Trek, a trilogy in an unexpected place

    by TheSeeker7

    What I've always found amusingly unusual is how you've got this big franchise of Star Trek, and the distinct trilogy isn't in the 1/2/3 movies like you'd naturally think, but rather the 2/3/4 films making up a proper trilogy here. And not as if the plot itself is very tied to that of 2 and 3 (though of course 4 does have the fun character stuff of Spock "relearning" what it is to be himself), but that each movie is told right after the previous one has ended

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:26 p.m. CST

    USS Grissom

    by montessaurus

    Grissom Comm Guy: "Sir, something's jamming our transmission.. it's some kind of... an energy surge" Grissom Captain: "LOCATE!" Grissom Comm Guy: "Sir it's from astern captain!" Klingon Bird Of Prey: *decloaks* USS Grissom: "KPLLLLLLAAAAAAAOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!"

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Trek 3 is one of the franchises best

    by RedBull_Werewolf

    I never got the odd number hate, SfS would be in the top 4 trek movies Hell even the first movie is not a terrible film, leaving only the 5th film (TOS worst film but not the worst overall trek film) and generations as actual odd numbered films that weren't great. (yes Count me as someone that enjoyed insurrection - it's a perfect capture of TNG. it gets hate because it's not epic but if it were a two parter from the shows run Fans would jizz all over it)

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:32 p.m. CST


    by montessaurus

    FOR SHORE. I mean... dayumm.. 6 really had it all for me. Hot vulcan chick - CHECK Humor - CHECK a Whodunnit - CHECK Political Intrigue - CHECK Floaty Klingon Blood - CHECK Epic space battle pitting 2 starships against a bird of prey THAT CAN FIRE WHEN CLOAKED?!?!?! TRIPLECHECK These 6 things are really all I demand from any movie, regardless of genre. What's so difficult, Hollywood?

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:36 p.m. CST


    by montessaurus

    you are not alone. I have a soft spot for "Insurrection" too. @theseeker7 - I've thought this myself. I think that 2-4 make up a great trilogy of films. My personal fave, to be true.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:36 p.m. CST

    yamato, The Voyage Home is overrated

    by lv_426

    I do like it, but I can also admit it is overrated. Actually, The Final Frontier is a bit underrated I'd say, even though it is the least enjoyable/successful of the six original cast films. The Motion Picture gets unfairly shat upon too much lately as well.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:38 p.m. CST

    Star Trek IV

    by montessaurus

    Great story, decent Nimoy direction... FUCKING TERRIBLE SOUNDTRACK. Seriously, that shit sounded like it came from a compilation of All-State commercials. Regardless, nuthin but love for it.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:38 p.m. CST

    A missed opportunity

    by Darth_Tarantino

    As other people have said before, STIII had all the ingredients to be epic. The sad fact is it doesn't make use of any of these elements in the right way and ends up being an average movie. But it's still worth it just for the fantastic exchange between Kirk and Kruge that perfectly demonstrates the sheer levels of arrogance that Klingons are capable of: KRUGE: Genesis; I want it! KIRK: Beam up the boy and we'll talk. KRUGE: Give me what I want and I'll consider it. KIRK: You fool! Look around you; the planet is destroying itself! KRUGE: Yeeeesss, exhilarating isn't it? KIRK: If we don't help each other we'll die here! KRUGE: Perfect! Then that's the way it shall be. Just brilliant :D

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:40 p.m. CST


    by Darth_Tarantino

    I tend to agree with Chuck - who does the sfdebris reviews of Trek - that the best way to watch the Trek movies is 2, 3, 4 and 6 because they represent a full narrative arc. The others are pretty much extraneous, although First Contact has it's moments and Star Trek (2009) brought some of the fun back to Trek that Nemesis so well and truly murdered.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:40 p.m. CST

    I still think ST3 was the best of the Trek movies

    by Tim

    With 2 and 6 being right behind it. After all, 3 had everything--the cast, working together spot on as the characters we loved. The emotion of Sarek's mind meld with Kirk. All of the new FX-no one has mentioned Spacedock and the Excelsior yet? Spacedock still gives me chills--it's everything that you knew probably should exist in the Trek universe, but hadn't yet seen. But the way they treated the Enterprise in that movie was second to none. It wasn't just a ship. It was just as much a character as everyone else. And that character gave her life for the rest--in a death scene that ranks up with some of the best in cinema history.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:47 p.m. CST


    by Darth_Tarantino

    Just one thing I'd point out - Sarek's mind meld with Kirk is totally superfluous though because all the information contained within that scene is covered in the pre-credits recap. So it adds nothing, not even on an emotional level, because it's little more than repetition.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:49 p.m. CST

    holy shit doomaddict

    by montessaurus

    Spot fucking on about the Enterprise as a character. I almost dropped a tear in my gin.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:55 p.m. CST

    Darth, about the mind meld

    by Tim

    The purpose of it wasn't to fill in a blank in the story. It was to give that portion, that flashback, extra emotional punch. Granted, you don't need to agree with that minor point to think that 3 was a great movie. I think it was just a great scene.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:57 p.m. CST


    by Darth_Tarantino

    It is a minor point, absolutely, and I do enjoy STIII. I just think it could've been so much more than it was. But like I said, it serves it's purpose and secures it's place in the series - unlike STV which is disjointed, insulting to the supporting characters (especially in light of their sacrifices in STIII) and has a terrible script.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Shatner got the shaft on V

    by gmanca

    Paramount want to rush it out and gave Shatner little cash for effects so Shatner had to go with the forth best effects house at that time. You can't do that after you agree with the contents of the script.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:07 p.m. CST


    by Darth_Tarantino

    Absolutely true but in the end a poor script/bad storyline is a poor script/bad storyline no matter how much money you spend on the film. STII and STIII had fuck all money compared to STV but they made the most of what they had and also had good scripts (in the case of STII, I'd say a fantastic script). So budgetary cuts do no excuse the film being as poor as it is, especially as it was the Trek movie with the highest budget spent on it to date at that point (except maybe for TMP, I'd have to double check the figures on that one).

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:08 p.m. CST

    I'd always hoped Paramount would spring for a directors cut of star trek 5

    by RedBull_Werewolf

    Shatner seems more then willing to revisit and either recut or add to the film. and fans would likely eat it up. So why does paramount allow for a directors cut of the first film but not of the 5th (you'd think with shatners involvment the publicity would pay for itself, shatner loves to talk about himself)

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:10 p.m. CST


    by Jaka

    You are NOT the only one. Nope.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:10 p.m. CST


    by Jaka

    They have said they will not.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:12 p.m. CST

    only finally saw TMP about 6-7 years ago, but loved it

    by TheSeeker7

    I've never understood how it got shit on so bad, so friverously thrown in with the "odd #s suck" argument. Sure it had its amount of fat that could've used shedding, some of those establishing shots go on waaaaaaaaay too long, but the plot itself, I found really interesting. A way to tie this futuristic established universe from the series back to something modern day (at the time, anyway) that the audience could relate to. I loved the idea of a satellite we launched back here in the late 19th century would supposedly come back to possibly royally fuck up our world, and the whole movie was discovering that mystery.<br> <br> That said, I recently took in complete, one-sitting viewings of #2 and #3 recently, for the first time since childhood likely (and I'm 35) and I liked Kahn enough, yea decent movie, but I didn't come away from it thinking it was "obviously the best" of the whole series. Not by a long shot. Voyage is probably still my favorite of all. oh and, yea, #3 is pretty damn bad lol

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:13 p.m. CST

    coolhandjuke, I think the title also relates to...

    by Jaka

    ...actually putting Spock back together. When they find him, he is not himself, just a shell. The "Search", I've always thought, was part metaphor for what they do to put him back together, to make him the Spock he was before his death.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:14 p.m. CST

    Shatner got used to Nimoy...

    by Detached

    ... as the director. I think he was a little surprised at first, and didn't know how to take it- but he has also said that he actually trained Nimoy, because Nimoy came to him during TJ Hooker and said he didn't know how to direct, and so Shatner helped him by showing him the ropes via TJH.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:20 p.m. CST


    by gmanca

    The problem is that those other films had their effects budgeted based on the script and were ok'ed. Paramount was cutting effects shots after they accepted the script and while Shatner was shooting the movie on top of rushing the movie. It was just a bad situation all the way around so while shit like Scotty hitting his head on the overhead beam is on Shatner, the stupid quick cuts of the Klingon ship shooting the entity or the amatuer shuttle bay sequence are on Paramount.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:37 p.m. CST

    Me and my friends hated Star Trek 3

    by ufoclub1977

    After the brilliance of Trek 2 under Meyers and the genius move of the death of Spock, this shit was a weak ass plot. It was like made for tv producers took over. There was better bionic woman episodes. I hates it. Forever. Was like a weak late season episode from the original tv show on an inflated budget. Come on! How could you like this crap? Trek 6 was the one that got back on track for about 3/4ths of it. ANd that was most likely Meyers again. I love me some "Time After Time"

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:38 p.m. CST

    3 was great

    by proevad

    as great as Khan? Of course not. Good to see it's getting some love on this thread. Has to be the most underrated thing in Trek history. No one ever talks about it. Shatner and Kelly were fantastic in it. Plus, the Enterprise blows up. What's not to love? Oh, and saw Trek 5 for the second time a few weeks ago. It's still as horrible as I remembered.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:40 p.m. CST

    I also love TMP


    and hate the one with the whale

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:41 p.m. CST

    TWOK+TSFS+TVH = awesome trilogy

    by Inexplicable_Nuclear_Balls

    I think I'll sit down and watch all three in a row tomorrow.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 11:01 p.m. CST

    I also really like ST3

    by Rebel Scumb

    Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country are still tied for 1st place for me but I do enjoy ST3 for the reasons mentioned above, there is a lot to love. I also think Insurrection gets a bit of a bad rep from people. If that movie had been shot in Hawaii instead of California I think it would have been more cinematic and may have been better received. It's the only one of the TNG films where the characters sort of feel like the same characters from the tv series. But regardless I'm not a big fan of the TNG fans overall for the very reason that they seem contrary to the spirit of the show. I'm not a huge fan of the TOS show (although there are a hand full of great episodes) but I love the original cast films, even 5 has its moments I tend to think the original Kirk/Spock cast works better in feature films than as a tv show, where as I think the TNG era works better as a tv show than as films.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 11:25 p.m. CST

    Love when they free Bones and steal the Enterprise

    by Tacom

    James Horner's music for the sequence is great.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 11:25 p.m. CST

    rebel scumb

    by Jaka

    Yep. I just said in the last ST thread, Insurrection is a glorified Next Gen episode (and I don't mean that in a bad way). If you can view it like that, its great! As a major motion picture its a little lacking, I have no argument for that, but I still like it.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 11:27 p.m. CST

    I'm glad Undiscovered Country is getting love

    by Jaka

    STIII seems to have always had a pretty even split amongst the fans, but VI, imo, still remains far too underrated. Its not just good because its better than the pile that came before it, either. Its good all on its own and it does a great job of putting a bookend on the Klingon story involving TOS characters.

  • I hate that movie so damn much. As a film, its not as terrible as STV. But as a movie going/watching experience it just makes me want to break shit. Its so rooted in the 80s (and I hated it them) with the jokes and bad costuming. Not to mention it contains time traveling, in order to save whales... ugh! The message is fine, they its executed is awful.

  • They should have just casted her as Saavik and made her the traitor since she wasn't an original cast member anyway. Why would she betray Kirk and the Enterprise? Make it that she was in love with David, hated the Kingon's for murdering him and wanted revenge. It would added a bit more depth to her character and the movie IMHO.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 11:50 p.m. CST

    Say the wrong thing Torg!!


    Pretty good use of widescreen during that phrase. And the score, though not as good as KHAN was aces!! Nothing like hearing silverware clanging to know the Klingons were coming.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:19 a.m. CST

    This Discussion

    by Chaykin

    Great job people! This is an intelligent, mostly objective conversation about a fantastic brand of entertainment, that we all know and love as Star Trek. Great valid points all around, lots of things brought to the table, it's a pleasure reading them all!

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:27 a.m. CST

    my only real big problem with TVH is I suppose...

    by TheSeeker7

    It's a wee bit convenient that, while it seems to be at least somewhat common knowledge that if you fly at high speed toward the sun and then slingshot yourself around it that you'll go back in time (the way Bones talks about it, it sure seems to anyway) that okay so you get to go back in time, but you happen to get to go specifically to the time in the past that's the exact ideal time for you guys to get what you want in this story, the late 20th century to scoop up some whales? How come you don't land it, say, the 5th century? Or even the 22nd century? (since the ST world is supposed to take place somewhere in the 23rd century, right? so 22nd would still be 'back in time')

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:28 a.m. CST

    I saw it for $1 in the theater originally

    by disfigurehead

    I hated it first viewing but I liked it the second.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:29 a.m. CST

    oh, and those legendary Kim Cattral nudie bridge pics...

    by TheSeeker7

    ya know, the ones that Nimoy was supposedly so pissed about and offended by for sullying the Trek image, he had completely destroyed? where Cattral was posing naked (but still from the neck up in her vulcan makeup, I think... ?) on the Enterprise bridge set? Damn I've give my pointy ears to see those.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:30 a.m. CST

    The Kobayashi Maru has set sail for the promised land!

    by Acquanetta

    The whole sequence were Kirk and Co. steal the Enterprise is classic. Ditto for the Vulcan finale: "My logic is uncertain where my son is concerned." Everyone always points out Christopher Lloyd's appearance as a Klingon, but it's worth noting that John Larroquette is among the crew as well. He's the klingon that Kirk spares at the end, pretty much establishing the ground rules for the future relationship of Denny Crane and Carl Sack.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:52 a.m. CST

    Darth, gotta disagree on the meld

    by NYSCO6390

    Like doom said, it's for extra punch, and maybe I'm remembering it too fondly, but I get the feeling from both Sarek and from Kirk that the meld was a terribly emotional experience. For Kirk to relive the fact that his friend was dead, for Sarek to have his hopes dashed that his son's katra survived, especially after having been so sure it survived. The recap in the beginning puts you the viewer back in the story, the mind meld gets the characters reinvested emotionally.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 1:09 a.m. CST

    catchtheman: re: valeris

    by Dollar Bird

    It's my understanding that the original plan was to have Valeris' character be Saavik, but Gene Rod himself nixed the idea because he didn't want her to end up a bad guy. I adore 6, but it would have been so much better if it was Saavik. Alas.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 1:13 a.m. CST

    Originally saw this at the theatre in 1984

    by Fletch Gannon

    I gotta say it made a strong impression on me as a kid. Spacedock, stealing the Enterprise, the space battles, Enterprise self-distructing, Genesis dying, Kirk's son being murdered, returning to Vulcan and the return of 12 year old brain ate that shit up! It was so epic to me, to see this being played out on the big screen with that great soaring James Horner soundtrack. Yeah Star Wars was a 'big deal' at the time but ST III made an impression on me. It was the first time I went to see a movie that I felt the emotions behind the story, the emotions behind the characters. ST II is the best written, best told Star Trek movie, and I enjoy many of the other Star Trek movies...but ST III is a personal favorite of mine.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 1:20 a.m. CST


    by logosicon

    Movie night for me: Wrath of Khan Search for Spock Undiscovered Country PROPER trilogy indeed! Hugo

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 1:20 a.m. CST

    dollar bird

    by Fletch Gannon

    Yeah it would have closed a nice arc in ST VI as well as the movie series with Kirk hating the Klingons for the death of his son and Saavik feeling the same way but going to more extremes because of her hatred. Since she was there when he was killed and he died defending her it would make sense. Nick Meyer had it right when he initially wanted her in but since he couldn't get Kirstie Alley back he recasted and then changed the character.

  • end of line

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 1:40 a.m. CST

    I hope the people driving the Star Trek ship...

    by Jaka

    ....have read these last few Trek related TalkBacks. I know a few of them frequent the place, so I really hope they're following along and taking notes.

  • Because William Shatner directed it. Get it? Also, because it sucked balls! Row, row, row your boat, gently up your ass! I love the Trek middle trilogy, though! 2,3, and 4, paired with 6 as a sweet swan song are great!

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 2 a.m. CST

    Nimoy's Films were SO much better...

    by Queefer Sutherland

    ...than that wretched, horrible, stupid and poorly acted thing that Shatner directed and wrote. I saw Final Frontier by myself for the first time in the privacy of my living room. I had rented the video (yes, I'm that old) and planned to have a fun, geeky Star Trek night all by myself. Oh. Dear. God. I sat in horror watching that movie. At other times I squirmed in discomfort. I was actually embarrassed for the actors, and for myself. I'm a Star Trek fan, but I'm no apologist, and admit that at least half of all Star Trek is crap. Maybe more. Most of the movies were so-so at best, three or four are utter crap, a few are good and two of them are excellent. Nimoy's two would rate good (Search for) and so-so (Voyage Home, though it's pretty close to good.) So I'd give Nimoy some serious props. Shatner should have stayed with what he knows best - being Kirk. Exposition aside, this photo rocks.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 2:09 a.m. CST

    The word?

    by DarthMusashi2112

    The word is no, I am therefore going anyway...

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 2:13 a.m. CST

    So much warmth in that photo

    by tomdolan04

    To be honest I've kinda caught all of the original casts ST movies over the last year either on TV or DVD and whilst the quality of the stories and actual 'films' varied wildly, I kind of enjoyed them all due to the warmth of the cast (and I'm not really a hardcore Trekkie).

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 2:25 a.m. CST

    Bones: "You're taking *me* to the Promised Land?"

    by YackBacker

    Kirk: "What are friends for?" And then the two characters share the lightest, most natural laugh between old friends. That's why, even when it's not good, TOS is excellent always.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 2:37 a.m. CST

    What are we going to do about it?

    by son_of_ebert

    We're not going to do anything about it. You're going to get in the closet. The closet? Have you lost all sense of reality? This isn't reality. THIS IS FANTASY!

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 2:51 a.m. CST

    It was great, no question,

    by Ciderman

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 2:57 a.m. CST

    These movies

    by dukeroberts

    I really like STIII. It's not as good as STII, but it is pretty good. It has been a while since I've seen it, but I remember liking it very much. I recently rewatched ST:TMP and it wasn't nearly as bad as I remembered it being. Of course, I watched the director's cut. I don't remember how different the original cut was from the director's cut. There might have been serious changes as far as I know. Can anyone enlighten me on that? I love the original series and enjoy the original cast in the movies. Despite STV being a pretty crappy movie, the cast is still great to see working together, especially the trinity of Kirk-Spock-Bones. I love II, I really like the director's cut of TMP, I really like III, IV and VI and I merely just like V, if only for the cast being together. I never particularly cared for TNG, but I liked First Contact. I hated Generations. I thought Insurrection was just like a really long episode, which made it okay, I guess. And I don't think Nemesis is as awful as most people think. I guess because I don't really care for TNG, maybe? I have no great love for that cast, so the things that happened didn't bother me too much. I also love the animated series and I really liked the Abrams abomination, despite the changes to the characters and despite the odd coincidences in the storyline: Spock happens to be in the very cave in the entire universe in which Kirk hides out from the Wampa. Oh wait. That wasn't a Wampa? I need not speak of Voyager, Deep Space Nine or Enterprise. They're pretty much nonentities to me.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 3:01 a.m. CST

    Love to see a re edit

    by Ciderman

    Of all three together in one butt numbing 6 hour trek fiesta! I saw this on release, I was 12 and it was brilliant, a worthy companion to Khan. Space dock was amazing, a great performance by Sikking as Excelsiors captain. A sign too that the federation was more than just the Enterprise, a feature never lost in the later TV shows at least. I had the soundtrack on vinyl and despite being a single LP they gave it a gatefold cover and the centre spread was the Enterprise facing the Bird of Prey. James Horners trek music remains my definitive soundtrack to the trek universe, films 4 and 5 were a big letdown in that respect, only The Undiscovered Country picking up the slack.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 3:15 a.m. CST

    How can you be deaf with ears like that?

    by bubcus

    Search for Spock is indeed a great film. There is some brilliant humor in there and so much emotion... Kirk losing his son, seeing the beloved Enterprise burning up. It's heart-wrenching and brilliant. I absolutely love Star Trek 2, 3, 4, and 6 and I do enjoy The Motion Picture as well. But as for 5... I agree the camping scenes of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are great. Rest of the film... meh. I don't blame Shatner for it, the film just didn't measure up to the ones around it. As much as we talk about the odds and evens: Generations was okay, but sombre. First Contact was fantastic. Insurrection was a TV 2-parter posing as a movie. And Nemesis... Nemesis was what Wrath of Khan was during an early test screening... a depressing funeral. I am thrilled they changed the ending of Wrath of Khan to be the masterpiece we all know and love. Nemesis, however, left the audience miserable.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 3:22 a.m. CST

    Cool talkback

    by kwisatzhaderach

    III is pretty awesome. Ok, some of the direction is TV-movie level but i'm willling to overlook that in light of all the great things the movie does right. Kirk and the crew standing on top of the mountain watching the burning Enterprise soar overhead is EPIC. As a ten year old I loved this film, and I still kinda love it today. This movie has SOUL, something JJ Abrams will never be able to do on screen.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 3:51 a.m. CST


    by Queefer Sutherland

    I don't know what my age has to do with it, but I was in my mid 20s at the time. And I'm not judging you. I'm expressing my own opinion. I don't require that you have the same opinion.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 4:05 a.m. CST

    And as a bonus for the BTSP:

    by KilliK

    check the scene where Kirk steals the Enterprise accompanied only with Horner's music: that scene is one of the best scenes in all the ST movies.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 4:23 a.m. CST

    I liked STIII quite a bit at the time...GOING BACK.

    by justmyluck

    SPOILERS AHEAD! I was the right age, though I remember feeling it had that nagging Paramount Trek cheapness to the sets and makeup - but they did bring in ILM again. Nimoy's direction was good enough, but the script was mechanically tying-up STII, bringing Spock back in a lengthy and anticlimactic ''Pon Farr'' finale, and setting up further sequels with a 'continues' tag. For this franchise, there was a new emphasis on humor, which was only occasionally effective. Nimoy went further in that direction with THREE MEN AND A BABY and STIV, which were huge commercial hits in '86-'87. Highlights of STIII for me: The Enterprise's hijacking to Horner's score (though borrowing heavily from a similar sequence he scored for BRAINSTORM); Empowered Sulu and Uhura moments. The designs of the EXCELSIOR and Klingon BoP, and the GRISSOM's explosion which, on a huge screen, was massive. STIII had a number of lingering & layered model and effects animation shots (e.g., the Enterprise's disintegration and the shot of the Klingon BoP landing on Vulcan with the spotlights) that were state-o-the-art for ILM at that time. More 'nagging' STII stuff: Not paying Kirstie Alley her ransom. Robin Curtis was MEH, and Alley's absence felt MAJOR; KLINGONS speaking to each other in English. The malfunctioning EXCELSIOR sounding like a dying '58 Chevy Impala Coupe IN SPACE. Finally, milking Spock's death and resurrection into a whole movie, directed by the guy who played Spock. You really couldn't have that play out today, with Internet saturation, the way it did in the 80's ("Spock dies" and "Spock lives" would have been all over the place before each film's release). So, Lucas' 86'ing any Darth & Luke mysteries with the prequels may have been mere pragmatism. On second though, nope - there's no excuse for letting your own cat out of the bag!

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 4:36 a.m. CST

    Also, please LOVINGLY restore & remaster TREKS I-IV for HD...

    by justmyluck case anyone is listening!

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 4:41 a.m. CST

    Shat did get the shaft

    by jasper Stillwell

    Sorry, apart from Christopher "Get Ouuuutttttttttt!" Lloyd, most of 'Search for Spock' hasn't aged well at all. There are some nice theatrical contrivances and humorous moments but the stagey-ness makes the film look quite contained and actually a little too beholden to it's TV roots. Say what you will about 'V' that opening sequence alone shows that Shatner was at least trying something a little different and was looking to make more of a cinematic experience. The budget and script revisions certainly sorted that ideal out.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 5:03 a.m. CST


    by davidwebb

    It's Spock. After the line, Kirk looks at Spock, and says "I was lucky, I got him back". As far as I know, George never came back - or did he?

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 5:10 a.m. CST

    The Excelsior and Klingon Bird of Prey ...

    by Ernie

    Without these iconic starships what would've TNG been like? Not to mention the Space Dock scenes which were reused ad naseum in the TV series. And the fact STIII introduced the concept of reusing the Enterprise on a new spaceship by putting a letter at the end of NCC 1701. Basically STIII made TNG possible. I kinda wish Kirstie Alley reprised her role of Saavik. Her Saavik kick-started my puberty and played a primary role in many a wet dream. Even now pictures of STII Saavik brings a slight tingling in the nether region.

  • the end fight on Genesis feels like something out of Temple of Doom with all the lava etc...i know it was more of a homage to Kirks TOS fistfights but it had that Indy feel to it too

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 5:30 a.m. CST

    Trek III = the 'Empire' of the Genesis trilogy


    -its the 2nd part in a trilogy (Genesis Trilogy of II, III, IV) thats very dark in tone, following a classic original (Wrath of Khan/Star Wars) and followed by a much lighter in tone conclusion (Voyage Home/Return of Jedi) - bad things happen (Kirks son is killed, NCC 1701 destroyed, crew become renegades....Solo captured, Lukes hand, Vader is revealed to be his father) - crews split into 2 before converging at the conclusion (Kirk and Co on Earth/Enterprise - David, Savik and Spock on Grissom/Genesis....Luke on X wing/Dagobah - Solo, Leia etc on Falcon/Cloud city) - Members are caputured by the villian and held to ransom (David, Savvik, Spock.......Solo, Leia) before the main guy (Kirk/Luke)comes to the rescue - Climatic fight between the main character (Kirk/Luke)and villian (Kruge/Vader) - Mysticism thats only believed in by main character (Kirk - Vulcans with the body transference...Luke - Yoda with the force) - Down beat film with a hopeful (though unresolved) ending leading directly into the next film. -the gag of the USS Excelsior's that has to jump in Hyperspace/warp and sput-sput-sputted = 'Millenium Falcon’

  • ...and contains some of Trek's best-ever moments. Stealing the Enterprise is, I think, Trek's finest 5 minutes of celluloid. What a fucking scene!

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 5:56 a.m. CST

    I watched V again recently, first time in about 10 years...

    by DiamondJoe

    ....and, yeah, its a failure - but there's still some interesting, ambitious shit in there. I think if the budget had been bigger and they'd scripted a (much) better end sequence, V could have turned out great. When you read Shatner's book (movie memories) detailing the original plot outline and the scenes he had planned, compared to how it turned out, you do see what he was shooting for. But the budget got hacked, the effects were shit, the ending was botched and Shatner just wasn't experienced enough to pull victory out of the jaws of defeat. But y'know - I like the camping stuff (shoot me), I like the interaction between the three leads, I like the scene where Sybok shows them their 'pain', Luckinbill was terrific. Put it this way - give me V over any of the Next Gen films (possibly excepting First Contact, and I have big problems with that film too).

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 6:29 a.m. CST

    Highly illogical statement!

    by justmyluck

    I should have said STIII ended with ''Fal Tor Pan'' or a ''Katra'' ritual. Looking it up now, ''Pon Farr'' was the accelerated Vulcan aging-mating business on the Genesis planet. Should also mention that the Film Score Monthly's limited, but expanded, STIII 2xCD soundtrack is still available (you even get the jazzy version of Horner's main theme):

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 6:32 a.m. CST


    by jasper Stillwell

    Absolutely. Shatner even makes the 'wandering around an alien planet' sequence at the end of 'V' at least look a little bit unearthly. That stuff's certainly got the edge, visually, on the standard Paramount backlot aesthetic that the later TNG films always settled for.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 7:02 a.m. CST

    Is it not ironic that Paramount gave the biggest

    by KilliK

    budget ever for a ST movie to the hands of a mediocre movie director like JJ in order to make a mainstream,popcorn movie for the average tween? I always had the impression that the ST movie franchise was viewed by Paramount only as the poor cousin of SW with a limited audience appeal and limited financial prospect. Thus they never gave to the franchise the proper affection,care and love that it deserver. Instead they always preferred to invest on it scarcely but enough to keep milking the fans for eternity. And if you think about it maybe Paramount was right about this from the start. NuTrek's BO success was big but i dont believe it reached the ,both financial and critical among fans,success that Paramount was hoping for with this expensive investment. The margin between the cost and the profit of the movie,was not analogically a lot more bigger than that of ie First Contact which was also a big hit in its time.even TMP,contrary to teh general belief,was a hit when it came out. Which might explain why JJ and his minions take their time with the sequel and after 3 years we still dont know much about it. Usually when a franchise is supposedly birthed (or rebooted) with a movie,the studio presses the creators to bring the sequel as fast as possibly before it's new born popularity and fanbase faints. This is not the case with the NuTrek which means 2 things about Paramount and JJ: 1.they acknowledge that NuTrek even as a pure mainstream,popcorn,'fun' (jesus...),movie cant reach the level of success like its 'rival' SW. Expensive and cool VFX can make ST more profitable from its predecessors but not that much. 2.They also acknowledge that NuTrek didnt satisfy all the fans as they hoped with their time-travel/alternate reality fiasco which they used as a cheap,lazy way to connect and merge the original mythology with the rebooted one. They know that the movie did revive the dead franchise,but they also understand that this time they must not fuck up with the sequel. If it turns bad and disappoints even the hardcore fans,it will harm the franchise and start its downfall which will lead to its demise again. So they are playing it safe and will try to make a really good film this time.ST might not be the behemoth that SW is,but it is still the golden chicken of Paramount.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 7:48 a.m. CST

    Ok, Bill, take 25 and this time don't be such a dick!

    by alienindisguise

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 8:09 a.m. CST

    The scene in Star Trek 5 where...

    by Rebel Scumb

    Sybock shows the 3 leads their painful memories is one of the best scenes of the entire series, and that's why I always stick up for that installment despite that it does have quite a few flaws Also the opening prologue with the 'dark rider' approaching that turns out to be Sybock, and the poor wretch who is trying to load his rockshooting gun before he's over taken, everything leading up to the 'You're a vulcan!?' reveal is a pretty amazing opening sequence.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 8:15 a.m. CST

    ST7: The Search for Spock's Child

    by Rebel Scumb

    In the commentary for ST3 Nimoy mentions that while it was not explored in any of the subsequent movies, as far as he was concerned while making the movie, Saavik was carrying Spocks child after the Pon Farr on Genesis If they had stuck with the original plan of having Saavik be in ST6, and having her still be the traitor, they could have had a great set up for a ST7 with Saavik in prison revealing to Spock that he had a son or daughter hidden away on some distant planet (or maybe Romulus???) and the crew having to go on a post retirement quest to rescue Spock's love child.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 8:34 a.m. CST

    wait what? Spock had sex with Saavik in ST3?

    by KilliK

    i thought that Pon Far was something like the mind-meld,used to help the male vulcans who reach puberty to withstand the painful change of their bodies during that phase. i didnt notice that it also involved sexual intercouse.young Spock was a lucky,lucky bastard.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 8:42 a.m. CST

    Oh, and V has a great Goldsmith score, too.

    by DiamondJoe

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 8:49 a.m. CST

    Star Trek V is actually a masterpiece of modern day cinema


    If you look at Trek V as a strange dream of Kirks...from the first campsite scene post mountain fall to right at the end of the film with the ‘Row Row Row your boat’ reprise..then its possible that Trek V is actually a masterpiece of modern day cinema like a Blade Runner or Inception Consider: - The events of the movie are a reflection of Kirk’s fears: being put back into action while he’s unprepared, geting screwed by Starfleet, losing his crew and losing, above all, his friends. - Events from the camping trip are mirrored in the dream: climbing El Capitan/climbing the mountain at the end...the fall from El Capitan/the fall from the turbo shaft...musing around the campfire/musing around the steering wheel. - The broken and unreliable Enterprise is another fear of Kirk; that no ship can live up to the original. - The movie follows dream logic: characters appear when needed (Spock in the turboshaft, Scotty in the brig, Spock in the BoP) and reality warps to accomodate the “story” (70+ decks, the mysterious wheel room, unicorns, sybok, god). - Kirk ate gods for breakfast, so it’s no surprise they show up in his dreams. The fight against “god” is Kirk’s subconscious idea of a generic adventure. Likewise, a Klingon is his idea of a generic villain. Also the whole fake God thing can be interpreted as Kirk's own atheist belief that there is no higher power. - In the end, Spocks saves his ass, just like he saved Spock’s. - The romantic relationship between Scotty and Uhura. - A 30 year plus impossible journey to the centre of the galaxy that happens in a few hours. - Spock having a brother which was never mentioned before. -the whole Sybok healing everyones pain and the fact that Kirk, Spock and Bones could see each other's illusionary flashbacks. -The Klingons coming to Kirk's rescue is Kirk's subconcious trying to forgive the Klingon's for the death of his son. - the song “Row, Row, Row Your Boat” ends with the line “life is but a dream.” - when going through the great barrier and the 3 are in the mysterious wheel room Bones asks ‘are we dreaming?’ and Kirk goes ‘if we are..then life is a dream’ - Being chased by a floating God head which shoots lightning bolts from it's eyes would have had a very nightmare like quality to it - Kirk, Spock and Bones remain together for much of the movie..just like at the campsite.. - And of course the story starting and ending in the same spot, with the Kirk, Spock and McCoy wearing the same clothes. When you look at the movie as a nightmare, a reflection of Kirk’s subconscious fears and desires, it actually, somehow, makes *more* sense. In fact, it starts making a *lot* of sense... What Shatner did is going to be puzzled over and studied and followed... forever....just like was Deckard a Replicant? did the totem fall?

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 9:08 a.m. CST

    =masterpiece of modern day cinema like or Inception =

    by KilliK


  • Aug. 7, 2011, 9:22 a.m. CST

    TMP has the most interesting story

    by Autodidact

    V'Ger is a fricking awesome concept and much of the execution was quite good as well. Terrfific sense of scale in that movie. And it's the only real "hard" sci-fi story in a trek movie. All of the first six movies are pretty good. Star Trek 5 is fairly bad, but the first time I saw it I was not really familiar with Trek and I kinda liked it. I did think the ending was kind of a cheap cop-out, but that's because at that time I thought the being they encountered was actually supposed to be god. Realizing it's some kind of stranded superintelligence makes it better.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 9:29 a.m. CST

    STIII Dialog

    by Tim

    A Hero's Welcome, son, is that what you'd like? God knows there should be...and this time we've paid for the party with our dearest blood.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 9:32 a.m. CST

    STIII Dialog, Part 2

    by Tim

    Somehow everything but one quote in the middle of my post disappeared. Crap. I guess I shouldn't use quotation marks. Anyway, what I had said (and I had included a few other beautiful lines of dialog but I'm not retyping them) is that the dialog in STIII is not realistic. It's not something you'd hear sitting at the bar or at the office. It's almost poetic, and I think that's one of the things that puts people off the movie. Some people probably think that the dialog was too pretentious, and that the movie was too obsessed with itself. Personally, I feel the dialog was almost Shakespearean in scope, and that's one of the reasons I love the film so much.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 9:37 a.m. CST

    wait,what the creature in ST5 was not God?!?

    by KilliK

    just kidding.HA. but they must make a ST movie focusing on the philosophical exploration of the God concept. Here is an idea: The Qs are considered the most powerful entities in the universe,but even they are incapable of understanding the true reason of their existence and if God exists or not. One of the Qs who is a scientist (in the broader sense) is so much determined to discover the biggest secret of the multi-verse,that he is willing to destroy the whole multi-universe and everything in it, in order to do so. Throw in Q from TNG as the one who warns the Federation (the other Qs have been captured or killed by the insane Q) for the imminent danger and asks their help to defeat the bad Q. From there you can use Q's powers as a way to explore various scientific,religious and philosophical subjects,ie the nature of the universe,the nature of time-space and quantum mechanics,why we exist,what created us,etc ofc nobody is going to watch the movie in the cinema,but at least you can say that you made the 2nd hard scifi ST movie.

  • It ain't the best (that's Khan, for sure) but there is an awful lot about this film I like - and it's brave enough to tackle some big philosophical issues. Beautifully directed by Nimoy, with some lovely cinematic moments. The scene where the crew are watching the Enterprise explode in the planet's atmosphere, and when Sarek watches the guys land the bird of prey on Vulcan, those are wonderful moments of pure cinema. I write myself, and I must say this Star Trek movie in particular is very influential. Nimoy's commentary on the DVD is (forgive the pun) fascinating. Everybody harps on about how "Wrath Of Khan", "The Voyage Home", "The Undiscovered Country" and "First Contact" are the classics of the series, but "Search For Spock" really has it's own merits - some great stuff here.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:08 a.m. CST

    killik - a 'Shatnerian' masterpiece yes


    forget Inception, Shatner was there with the dream reality movies when Nolan was popping zits and jerking off to the lingerie section of the sears catalog.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:11 a.m. CST


    by Rebel Scumb

    Wow! that is an interesting way to look at it It also corrects some of the continuity issues it causes for ST6 where they are all buddy buddy with the klingons, but then in the next film are afraid to have them over aboard the enterprize for dinner Technically those issues are ST6s fault, but it is such a better film than ST5 that I have a hard time laying the blame there, especially since 5 can be dismissed without disrupting any plot from ST4 to ST6

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:27 a.m. CST

    I agree pixelsmack

    by Aaron Lea

    The campfire stuff was great.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:29 a.m. CST

    In retrospect

    by skydemon

    I wish they had left Spock dead and moved on. Nimoy surely would have directed the next film and more, but his character should have remained gone. I think that just would have added some credibility to the series. Yea, I'm with Nick Meyer on this one, Spock should have been left dead. I did not however have the same opinion 29 years ago, so there ya go. The weakest movie was TFF, too much studio interference was most likely the reason for that. Loved the dark, coolness of the first film. Loved the exciting and edgy second film. Never saw ST-TSFS as anything other than a continuation of ST-TWOK. Originally very let down by ST-TVH. I remember people standing up and cheering when the credits rolled, but I remember thinking, "what happened to the outer space coolness ST-TMP?" some of that came back in the last film, but by that time they were always trying to repeat the audience success of ST-TVH. The silly humor worked with ST-TVH, and it was a "fun" star trek film, but it was just plain...well, silly in the final two films, thus making me miss the coolness of TMP even more. In a nutshell, this fan appreciates the first freaking piled on film. It was cool dammit. So was ST-TWOK

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:30 a.m. CST

    about directing, part II

    by Detached

    Word is that Shatner wasn’t too hot that Nimoy got to direct before he did

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:33 a.m. CST

    it was all a dream

    by Dollar Bird

    The one consolation I have for all the STNG movies is that Picard and Shatner are still in the space blanket matrix thing and all of those crappy movies were just fantasies they lived out in that realm. With that in mind, I like this new school of viewing ST5.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:46 a.m. CST

    The Nexus, from Generations

    by Autodidact

    I hated all ST episodes/movies that were focussed on simulation/dreamworld/psychic plane, etc. except for the Moriarty holodeck stuff. I consider Generations to be a real piece of shit movie in retrospect. I kinda liked it when it first came out but I find it utterly unwatchable now. It's so goddamn dreary and slow. The Nexus is the lamest concept to base an ST movie around. Apart from First Contact I consider all the TNG movies to be fucking garbage. Especially Nemesis. This is also why I could never get into DS9 as the two hour pilot was mostly a piece of kryptonite giving Sisqo psychic visions.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:51 a.m. CST

    ST: First Contact

    by Tim

    I've seen this movie mentioned a few times, and I've just gotta ask...why does anyone like it? Is it the action level? Other than the fact that it's pretty fast paced and has lots of shooting and stuff blowing up, I find it a terrible film. Granted, I thought all of the TNG movies were terrible, and First Contact is probably the shiniest piece of crap in the bag. And since I'm dumping on other movies, I'll chime in with others that have said that ST:IV wasn't all that great. It's fun and light hearted, but it really seemed more like a light hearted TV episode than anything else.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:59 a.m. CST

    First Contact is Favoured for a Number of Reasons

    by Autodidact

    First Contact has a unique mood and intensity. The first hour is almost like Star Trek meets a zombie movie. The story holds together and is satisfying. It's a very actiony ST movie but the action is totally story-driven. The effects really hold up. It still looks like a new movie to me. I think FC got kind of overlooked for its CGI and FX in a year that had a lot of big effects movies. It's full of great character moments for every TNG main character, which were missing almost entirely from Generations. Picard has his best moment in all of Trek when he quotes Moby Dick while exploring his feelings towards the borg. Etc..

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 11:01 a.m. CST

    And it's visually strong

    by Autodidact

    On the commentary, Frakes doesn't make much of a big deal about it, but I find the director's eye in First Contact to be highly articulate and dynamic.

  • A kind of nuclear option in order to create drama and an emotional response from the audience. I hated the Search for Spock. Hated it. Lloyd as a Klingon pulled me right out of the movie. All I could hear was Reverend Jim --Iggy from Taxi--pretending to be a Klingon. Spock born again and growing quickly to the right age and then invested with his mind seemed too convenient and too far out even for Star Trek. I never bought it, and never thought of Spock in the later flicks as the real Spock, but a weird copy of the original.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 11:27 a.m. CST

    st tmp ftw.

    by vulturess

    great story. and - spockopalypse!!!

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 11:29 a.m. CST

    Should have left Spock dead.

    by SmokingRobot

    Bringing him back was one of the many huge mistakes that kept this franchise running in place for many years.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 11:34 a.m. CST

    - "...and in BIG letters, WILLIAM SHATNER's..."

    by ObiBen

    ...JULIUS CEASAR, the Broadway Musical...

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 11:35 a.m. CST

    - ""

    by ObiBen

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 11:39 a.m. CST

    autodidact dont be fucking stupid

    by KilliK

    and give DS9 a chance. like you, i wasnt impressed by the pilot episode and i considered the whole project (at that time) a B5 ripoff. but i gave it a chance and started watching all its seasons and at the end i realized that it was the third best ST show ever made after TOS/TNG. B9 is an entirely different concept than TNG,it's more about the characters and their involvement in a permanent,specific setting (the geopolitical importance of the worhmole/station in the middle of two rival sides),rather that visiting new civilizations and facing the various challenges that they pose. B9 is about a remote town in the Wild West surrounded by indians,bandits,etc. TNG is about a wagon traveling through the Wild West and its dangers. Just give it a chance,you wont regret it.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Cast hating on the Shat

    by vezner2007

    You always hear about how much of an ass he was on the set but then you see pictures like this and you have to wonder if it's true. Frankly, I think some of the cast were SERIOUSLY jealous that Shatner (and Nimoy too) was the icon of Trek and they weren't. What a bunch of babies.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 11:44 a.m. CST

    BTW, DS9...

    by vezner2007

    is better than TNG. It had to be said.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 11:50 a.m. CST

    i dont know.both series had two hot women

    by KilliK

    but only one series has the coolest ST captain ever,who happens to be bald. not that i dont like Cisco, but his character always looked to me as Kirk being a father.but he was a lot better than Jenaway acting as the female version of Kirk.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Weird thing about DS9

    by Autodidact

    I did randomly take in an episode here and there. The reason I never got sucked in at those times was the same-saminess of every episode. I know fans of the show hate this criticism, but it's set on a space station that never goes anywhere. Not exactly Star "Trek". I watched a lot of Voyager in the first two seasons and then stopped following it. The writing was very repetitious and the characters were all bland as fuck on that show.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Forgot to include the weird thing..

    by Autodidact

    .. the weird thing is every time I get my car serviced and sit in the waiting area, DS9 is on, and I always enjoy it, and it always seems to be based around whats-his-face, the Ferengi (Quark?)

  • I don't think its a well-made film at all. Its not just flaws, or budget constraints - its just bad. The story is clunky and downright silly, the acting is off, the pace is off, the effects are meh. Its just, ya know, bad!

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:24 p.m. CST

    autodidact, totally disagree with DS9 not going anywhere

    by Jaka

    DS9 doesn't go anyPLACE (in a literal sense), because its set on a space station, so that's where the show happens. But the characters, even most of the minor ones, have huge arcs. They went places (figuratively) on a regular basis. They all changed and grew over the course of the series. They were different people at the end than they were at the beginning. The way these changes were written and the stories structured, it simply would not have worked if you were bouncing around the universe having a random weekly encounter. If you watch the series for weeks in a row, or seasons, the "same-saminess" very quickly disappears. The same two characters could be sitting in the same two rooms wearing the same clothes two weeks in a row and the stories would be completely different. <p> Its cool if you don't like it, no skin off my back. But saying that you have randomly taken in an episode here and there doesn't really make for understanding the appeal of the show, or give you any kind of an idea what the huge story arcs were about. Clearly, for some people - those people who've never had the patience to watch the entire series before deciding if they like it or not - that's a problem. It always has been, and no doubt its the reason why nothing has happened with the show since it ended.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:31 p.m. CST


    by Jaka

    What Shatner did is going to be puzzled over and studied and followed... forever....just like was Deckard a Replicant? did the totem fall? <p> Bill, is that you? I mean, really dude? If it was a film where the quality was highly debated, maybe. But its not. With no apologies, its a crap film.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:32 p.m. CST


    by Rebel Scumb

    I'm just in the midst of rewatching it for the first time since it aired, finished season 5 last night. I think it holds up incredibly well. Jadzia Dax is by far the hottest Trek main girl they've ever had in my opinion, not just looks (oh boy those spots are hot!) but also her entire disposition and personality is sexy

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:35 p.m. CST

    jaka is correct.another great thing about

    by KilliK

    DS9 which also happens to be a major flaw in TNG,is that all the characters have their flaws and weaknesses and even their dark secrets. they are not perfect,with an unbreakable morality and absolute integrity like the characters in TNG. that's why they brought the darker counterparts of Data,Riker and Picard in order to compensate for the lack of genuine character flaws.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Yeah, I was speaking literally

    by Autodidact

    So to counter my opinion with the fact the it figuratively goes somewhere is just dumb. I don't watch Trek for the characters... there is much better character based fiction to spend time on if that's what you care about. And I really never cared for alI watch Trek because of the sci-fi aspects and the *exploration* aspect. "Warp speed, Sulu", you know? I think having seen about eight episodes of the show, and being well versed in Trek otherwise, I'm gonna stick with my opinion and avoid watching any more DS9 unless it happens to be on while I'm in some waiting room. Part of the same-saminess to me was the constant shifting of allegiances and all the political intrigue. Gee I wonder if that Cardassian is up to something this week or is he going to be unexpectedly nice and polite and peace-minded this week? If I want a show about grand politics I'll watch West Wing or something, and if I want personal intrigue I'll watch some other shit which I'm not aware of because I haven't watched actual TV shows apart from what I occasionally see streaming online for the past 12 years.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:40 p.m. CST

    DS9's characters

    by Rebel Scumb

    Also, by sticking to one location they were able to build an incredible line up of very well developed recurring guest characters: Garak, Nogg, Romm, Leta, DUKAT!, Kai Wynn, Vedic Berial, General Martok, The founders, Weyoun, Eddington, and carry over a few from TNG like Keiko, Galron, etc. The production values are great, the atmosphere, the tone, the moral dilemmas I consider TNG and DS9 tied for 1st place of best trek in my books, but TNG has a lot more nostalgia and comfortable old shoe appeal for me, where as objectively speaking I agree DS9 is a 'better' show, but I love both equally. To me it would be like comparing my brother to my best friend. I don't have any nostalgic attachment to TOS as I had only seen a handfull of episodes of it up until last year when the blu-ray sets came out and I finally watched them all. I admire it for what it was during its own time period, and the cast has great chemistry. But for me there are probably only about 5-10 episodes I would consider to be really memorable. The Enterprize incident stick out in my mind, and that first one with the Romulan ship hunting them (where the romulan is played by Sarek) was also very good. But I love the Kirk/Spock movies. My personal trek canon based just on my own tastes is basically movies 1-6 (and often really just 2,3,4,6) and then season 1-7 of TNG and seasons 1-7 of DS9 I haven't watched Enterprize but plan to shortly to give it a fair chance.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:41 p.m. CST

    =I don't watch Trek for the characters.=

    by KilliK

    i stopped reading there.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 12:59 p.m. CST


    by dukeroberts

    I liked DS9 better than TNG too. I liked it because it was different from the other shows. It was mostly about the characters and their relationships with each other. Now, I didn't watch it regularly, but I think it is better than TNG, which I never really cared for all that much. Nothing comes close the original though. And whoever said that Picard was the best captain ever is out of their mind. Captain James Tiberius Kirk is the greatest Star Trek captain, without a doubt.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 1:25 p.m. CST

    @tallboy6t6 i can understand that and it is a logical

    by KilliK

    formula to follow when your concept of your series is focusing on the doings of your characters or the situations that they are involved with,rather than the development of the characters themselves. BUT there are some series (i am not talking about TOS) where this formula becomes repetitive and boring.For example X-Files or House MD,series which i loved when they started but about the 4th season i stopped watching because they became too repetitive. They suffer from what i call soap-ification,they turned into fucking boring is the same curse that follows the mainstream super-hero comics and the main reason that i stopped reading them as well. with the exception of Punisher (Garth Ennis run though),because as you correctly say, the concept of the series is mostly about the plot rather than the character who remains intact throughout the whole run.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 1:45 p.m. CST

    I don't watch it *for the characters*

    by Autodidact

    Not watching it *for* the characters doesn't mean I don't love and fully appreciate the characters. It means if the same characters were set in some other fictional context apart from the bridge of the enterprise, I would not watch the show/movie (necessarily). I watch the show because they EXPLORE SPACE. If you think this invalidates my opinion, you have your head up your ass sir!

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 1:51 p.m. CST

    I have always wanted to believe the V dream theory

    by proevad

    because I'm a big fan of the Shat--but although he's a good actor, a decent writer, and one of the funniest people god ever dropped on the planet--I just don't think he has it in him to do something that brilliant and never mention a word about it to anyone after all these years.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 2:03 p.m. CST

    =I watch the show because they EXPLORE SPACE=

    by KilliK

    well in that case,why dont you watch Discovery Channel instead? just following your West Wing example... but anyway,i understand what you mean and you are right.character development is good,but sometimes you just want to see how Picard is going to kick Q' butt in the new episode.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 2:14 p.m. CST

    Terrific Film! TNG era is boring horseshit except DS9

    by picardsucks

    Nimoy was actually a very talented director. This film was terrific. Not as good as Khan and a touch hookey in spots but alot of fun with many poignant moments. It also has one of cinemas greatest mano e mano fistfights between Kirk and Kluge (Shatner did almost all his own stunts here BTW) And The TNG is a pile of shit. In fact the entire Next Gen universe is fucking poo DS( being the excepetion. A truly wonderful show. Of all the shows TNG holds up the least. Even the effects are laughable and cheap. A pretty female psychiatrist sitting next to the Captain of the Navy's battle flagship helping him make tactical command decisions? WTF?? The endless spewing of technobabble (worse in the Even worse Voyager) Tachyion this and tachyion that A kindergarten on the Fleet Flagship???? Every evil alien turning out to be a slightly misunderstood good guy Every new alien race wearing tan or grey long linen hippee robes like some sort of Northern Ca -Oregon hippee Commune A ship that looked like the inside of a Courtyard Marriot All poo and can't lick Shatner's boots

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Y'all are ragging on the wrong score

    by ScreamingPenis

    Horner put a masterpiece together for this. Stealing the Enterprise... I had this on vinyl. I know, old school.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 2:38 p.m. CST

    The problem with many of the Star Trek movies...

    by Gary Busey's Upper Half that they wanted to make them revenge/action films instead of great sci-fi/adventure stories. The best episodes of TOS and TNG were the ones with big ideas and that didn't necessarily hinge on a big battle finale. Wrath of Khan worked despite this, because they had a genuinely good villian and a really good script, III was just a continuation of that story and IV kept it light and went heavy on adventure rather than action. But every subsequent film focused on 'splosions and shouting matches, with the nadir being Nemesis. I had high hopes for the new Abrahms Trek but, while well produced, it went straight back to the well with a standard war/revenge story that had little to do with the heart of Star Trek.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 4 p.m. CST

    whoa... God in ST5 = Man In Black from Lost

    by TheSeeker7

    It's funny, I'd never even thought about this possible comparison until skimming over this talkback. In Trek 5, you've got this sinister, non-human creature who is forever stuck to this particular place never able to leave, so he pretends to be something else (God) in order to manipulate these humans to get access to a vessel to finally be able to get the hell off this rock.<br> <br> In LOST, you've got the Man In Black who's (not anymore) not exactly human and forever stuck on this island so he uses all this manipulation of the humans around him to secure a way to finally be able to escape (that is... among all the many twists and turns of MIB's season 6 plan, he ultimately did want to be able to take control of the Ajira plane to fly off the island, once all the candidates were dead, right?)

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 4:01 p.m. CST


    by dukeroberts

    While I did like the new Abrams Star Trek, I must agree about it not having the heart of Star Trek. I accepted it because it was an "origin" and reboot film, but they better step it up in the next film. They can't just have explosions and new relationship twists (Spock and Uhura, Spock and Kirk don't like/trust each other, etc.) and expect that to be enough. There has to be more meaning to the next film. It should be more "science fictiony" and less "actiony".

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 4:05 p.m. CST

    This thread

    by dukeroberts

    This thread has encouraged me to rewatch the first 6 films in order. I will see STV for the first time in nearly 20 years. I hope I still enjoy the cameraderie enough to not hate it and will consider the dream theory as I'm watching it.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 4:21 p.m. CST

    the only trouble with the dream theory is...


    the film's opening sequence take place before Kirk falls asleep. HOWEVER..... there is an was still set in Kirks dream (the opening with sybok and the bald dude is very dreamlike, Kirk falls from the mountain - falling is a very common dream..he is also saved by his best friend Spock - another symbolic dream image) - which would make as his ascent up the mountain, the fall and everything else which occurs before they bed down at the campsite the first ‘level’ of the dream - the bed down and what occurred after would be a ‘dream within a dream…’ only problem with having Kirk dreaming before he falls asleep at the campsite is Kirk falling from El Capitan would be 'the kick' and have shouldve woken him out of dream! unless...we have the opening with Sybok and the bald guy and the mountain climb as Kirks dream within a dream...he falls (the kick) is woken up into the normal first stage dream at the campsite...then they bed down and fall asleep and everything that occurs after (including being 'woken' by the shuttle) is a dream within a dream until at the end when they around the campfire again its just a dream (with the marsh 'melon' as his totem) someone should re edit Star Trek V with the "WAAAAHHHHH!" Inception soundtrack

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 4:39 p.m. CST

    Maybe the whole ST5 movie was a holographic movie played in

    by KilliK

    a holodeck in the TNG Enterprise,as part of some archaeological seminars done by Picard,in order to show to his audience how a BAD movie of the 20th century looked like.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 4:54 p.m. CST


    by Duir

    I'm gettin' a Bill Haverchuck vibe from this photo.

  • the movie wouldve won oscars - best picture and director... also Shatner would be still directing big budget movies today - e.g. at the end of The Dark Knight itd come up "Directed by William Shatner" posters would have on them 'From the oscar winning William Shatner - the director of Star Trek V and The Thin Red Line' Films would be known as "Williams Shatners Inception" when people mentioned his name itd be like "William Shatner? you mean the director guy?" and 'Have you seen the new Shatner movie yet? it rocks!' and 'OMG they getting Shatner to direct the new Alien film!' and when discussions on aicn or imdb etc happened about who should direct the next Terminator or Alien or indeed Trek, Shatners name would be on the top of everyones lists and when movie bosses read the latest must have script they would be like "get shatner on the fuckin phone...only he can direct this movie!"

  • Under Shatner's direction the actors get a bit hammy, but that's subjective because it's arguably realistic that the Enteprise officers really would be kind of silly with each other after so many years. It's also not inconsistent with some truly silly moments on the original series. Shatner may have his own view of Star Trek but nobody can say he's untrue to the show. He just emphasizes the parts he likes. What's wrong with Star Trek V is Shatner's ambition is no match for Paramount's penny pinching. Give Shatner credit for getting on location, in sunlight, and trying to get some greater scale into the series, which was previously trapped on soundstage caves and planets and reused starship sets. Star Trek II and III never go outside and Star Trek IV was set in the present-day. We had yet to see a "strange new world" because the movies never left the Paramount lot! Shatner tried to expand the scale of everything and to that end he filmed outside for the planet scenes, brought back shuttlecraft for the first time since the original series, and he filmed the only live-action scenes ever in the Enterprise hangar deck, which had never been filmed before except as a painting or model. The problem was trying to do a big movie when Paramount wanted to pay for a small movie. Star Trek II is a great low-budget film and a great collaboration between producer and director who set out to do the best film that would fit the budget. Star Trek V did not have those things come together as well.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 5:05 p.m. CST

    autodidact, I didn't insult your intelligence...

    by Jaka

    ... so why did you find it necessary to insult mine? I was under the impression that there was an ongoing conversation taking place here. I find that hard to do when the response to my opinion is that its "dumb". There was nothing "dumb" about what I said, its just my opinion. And in case you missed it (clearly you did), I have no problem with your disliking the show. I said so pretty clearly.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 5:10 p.m. CST

    You know, I was going to address something else you said

    by Jaka

    But whatever. lol I think you're just taking a piss in an attempt to stir the pot anyway. Because if you actually process what you've said you don't like vs what you do like about Trek it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense.

  • TMP is greatness! The odd-numbered theory has no fucking merit and was not cooked up by a fan as I like 3 better than 4. Trek 3 takes tons of chances! They kill two characters- David and Enterprise, they emotionally rape Kirk practically, losing his friend, his son and his ship. Some great philosophical issues are tackled and the Chris Lloyd as a Klingon.... "GET OUT......GET OUT OF THERE!!!!" We also see one of the best Kirk moments ever as he blows his ship to save his skin. Nice.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 5:24 p.m. CST

    proevad, exactly!

    by Jaka

    And even if all parties involved had come out and said that at the time of releases, imo, its still a crap film. I don't know how people can watch it and take it even the slightest bit seriously. If Wrath of Khan is an A (in regards to writing, production, directing, acting and effects), The Final Frontier is riding the line between a D and an F, and I have very little desire to ever re-watch ANY film that falls in that range.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 5:29 p.m. CST



  • Aug. 7, 2011, 5:29 p.m. CST

    HAVE HAD....


  • Aug. 7, 2011, 5:30 p.m. CST



  • Awful, dumb ass aliens and that chick Picard crushes on is a low-talknig whore. What was she even talking about? Ass.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 5:33 p.m. CST

    Shatner as Director was fine...he captures some great imagery

    by ZodNotGod

    and the film has some best character moments, (worst too) of the entire franchise. It also must be mentioned the film had plenty of steep competition in the summer of 89. I recall for 10 weeks straight there was one blockbuster after another, (Last Crusade, Batman, Honey I shrunk the kids..) James Bond even suffered the same fate of too much competition. Not a great film, probably not even a good film, but its not terrible and has a few good things to offer.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 5:39 p.m. CST

    the final JJ Trek (3) will end like this...


    the heavily damaged Enterprise is in its final battle with Khan (discovered at the end of the previous movie) and his army of renegade Klingon followers led by Commander Kruge. Alone, with what was left of the crew evacuated and his bridge crew dead, Captain Kirk in a final act of desperation puts the ship on auto destruct and sets the ‘Genesis II’ carrying Enterprise at the centre of a nearby nebula - on the burning bridge he fires all weapons at the armada of ships closing in as onscreen he watches the shuttle pod carrying Carol and infant son David escape to the enterprise destroys Kruge's bird of prey, Kirk sets a collision course with Khans stolen Federation ship which has followed the enterprise into the nebula and diverts all remaining power to foward phasers....Khans chilling voice is heard on speakers goading Kirk as he sits in the command chair for the final time and launches into a big 'KHHAAAAAN!!' yell…..and then, just before everything is about to go kaboom, the burned, bloodied, shirt ripped Kirk closes his eyes and reaches into his pocket…we see a strange look on his face. He pulls out a marshmallow, and starts to hear a overpowering loud noise “WAAAAHHHH! WAAAAAHHH!” like a shuttle landing, then what sounds like Bones shouting 'Get that damn light outta my face!'....cut to: Kirk (CG 1989 William Shatner) awaking horribly hungover in his sleeping bag, empty bottles of bourbon and Romulan Ale surround him and a copy of Quantum Mechanics Monthly near the campfire along with a bag of half eaten dodgy marsh 'mellons' after Kirk, Spock and Bones (CG 1989 Nimoy and Kelley) leave the campsite and enter the shuttlecraft, we see a marshmallow roasting on the fire (Kirks totem), but the movie ends before we actually see it burn completely leaving it ambiguous whether he was still dreaming or not.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 6:14 p.m. CST

    2.They also acknowledge that NuTrek didnt satisfy

    by Roger Moon

    2.They also acknowledge that NuTrek didnt satisfy all the fans as they hoped with their time-travel/alternate reality fiasco which they used as a cheap,lazy way to connect and merge the original mythology with the rebooted one.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 6:42 p.m. CST

    I loved the old star trek movies... except the first one.

    by Norman Colson

    I dont know why i dont like it... funny.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 6:51 p.m. CST

    The cast vs Shat

    by Detached

    Roddenberry sold the show to Shatner as basically being about Kirk. But the supporting cast (as is normal with actors) naturally wanted more screen time. Some of them came to resent him for that & I think other reasons, but much of it was cleared up over time. Shatner himself was unaware of it, and I think much, probably most, of the unhappiness with him was unfair. Nimoy has said more than once that the series would have failed without Shatner, and I believe he's right.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 6:56 p.m. CST


    by Detached

    Actually, its: I... Have had... Enough... Of YOU!!!

  • I agree, but it was a good Star Trek TNG crew movie because of the characters, mainly Picard's arc from that of a Borg-hating old man obsessed with revenge to that of a person who can let go of his hate. Also, I really liked the whole sub-theme centering on Zefram Cochrane and that of how historical perception is warped through the centuries, thus creating idealized and sanitized for the masses historical figures out of real but fallible people. As for the Borg being kinda like the Aliens and Terminators, I see that as a cool bonus, as I am a huge fan of both Terminator and Aliens. This notion also made me wish for a Star Trek + Aliens crossover film. I'd love to see how the crew of the Enterprise dealt with some xenomorphs.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 7:11 p.m. CST

    I can't believe

    by Reasonaxe

    This pic was posted on the same day as my bar crawl which in our third year was called "Bar Trek III: The Search For Sobriety"

  • When Shatner had his Comedy Central Roast, both Sulu and Uhura were there and they traded some funny jokes.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 7:51 p.m. CST

    so kirk is awake now -right?

    by vulturess


  • Aug. 7, 2011, 7:55 p.m. CST

    I wanted the pic to be more like this -

    by Orionsangels

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 8:01 p.m. CST

    Klingon bastard! You stole my toupee!!

    by leo54304

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 8:02 p.m. CST

    Klingon bastard!! Gimme back my son!!

    by leo54304

    Sorry, wrong movie

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 8:03 p.m. CST

    Klingon bastard!! Gimmee back my sandwich!!

    by leo54304

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 8:21 p.m. CST


    by Jaka

    Ha! Nice.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 8:37 p.m. CST


    by Arcadian Del Sol

    Seriously, was there a glaring typo in the script that nobody caught, because i've always called them marshmallows.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 8:38 p.m. CST

    Love these 2 guys

    by Extr3m1st

    A nice little portion of my life has been spent enjoying the adventures of the Starship Enterprise and her crew. I have to get back into reading all those great novels that are out there and I can't wait for the next movie.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 9:05 p.m. CST

    Jaka, what I said is consistent

    by Autodidact

    I'll refrain from insults if you'd care to elaborate on where I've contradicted myself. I guarantee you I have a self-consistent opinion about ST. I do get a bit defensive when people try to say I'm being self-contradictory or just wrong, when what I'm being is nuanced and honest with myself. As I said, not watching it for the characters is not the same as not loving the characters and fully appreciating them. It means I watch it for sci-fi concepts and the exploration factor. Hence, no love for DS9.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 9:09 p.m. CST

    Killik... Being Intentionally Obtuse Gets You Nowhere With Me

    by Autodidact

    Discovery Channel is non-fiction. That's why it's not the alternative to Star Trek. Assfuck.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 9:22 p.m. CST


    by Autodidact

    You're right it didn't really make sense to have all those kids on the Enterprise given how frequently the ship came into mortal peril. But I like the smoothed over feel to the TNG era in the Trek timeline. You're right about almost every nemesis in the show turning out to be a misunderstood good guy. TNG was just really optimistic that way. And to go back to one of the quintessential pre-web internet arguments: Picard would blow Kirk away in a starship showdown.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 9:57 p.m. CST

    What Does God... (12 second pause)

    by Aquatarkusman

    ... need with a starship?

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:06 p.m. CST

    Christopher Lloyd made the modern Klingon

    by Dreamfasting

    If you look at the various Klingons of Trek up to and including ST3, it's amazing to realize just how influential Christopher Lloyd was in setting the standard for all the Klingons who followed.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:23 p.m. CST

    autodidact, nah man

    by Jaka

    There is no "if" anything. You don't get to start shit and then throw down conditions after the fact. We are having a cool conversation, as in the entire talkback. I could be wrong, but I think you're the only one unnecessarily calling people names. Something you've continued to do throughout the thread of the conversation. Its just not needed, especially when we're having one of those once in blue fuckin' moon peaceful conversations. <p> The point is that Star Trek IS character based. Its all about the characters. You love sci-fi adventure, that's great. I respect that and I never said otherwise. But those adventures would mean nothing, hold no excitement, if you didn't care about the characters. And you're just completely wrong in your ASSUMPTIONS about DS9. It contains pretty close to as much adventure as any other series, maybe just a little less, it simply does it in a confined space. This allows the characters to change and grow because they are forced to interact with the same problems, allies and enemies (be they big or small) over a long period of time. Whereas in every other series the most we ever got with that type of story telling was a two-parter, or re-occurring characters like Q, the Borg and Klingons. <p> Again, like whatever you want, however you want. I haven't once told you there was anything wrong with that, or insulted you for having that opinion. Just explaining where and how your logic is flawed regarding why you dislike DS9, that's all. (Heh, I said logic.) <p> I await your witty insult.... not!

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:25 p.m. CST

    Jaka I recommend ALL My Children

    by Autodidact

    Or Days of Our Lives. You little bitch.

  • Concern for their well being was a topic on the show many times. I believe they even questioned the common sense of them being on the ship. Latter incarnations of the ship (in the movies) did not carry children or unenlisted family members. In fact, they didn't even carry as many crew. The original Next Gen Enterprise concept, being the flagship of the Federation with the intended purpose of exploration, was meant to be a city in space. With all the bad shit going down in the universe (mostly the Borg, though) it was later decided that wasn't such a hot idea.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:31 p.m. CST

    Star Trek III ages well in my opinion

    by Dreamfasting

    Of all the Trek movies, I find that Star Trek III is the one that has gained the most with age. The older I get, the more I realize that the movie really captures what grieving feels like. There is something about the relentless bleekness punctuated with moments of dark humor and stubborn idealism that holds up amazingly well. I wouldn't want to see another Trek movie this dark, but every moment of III feels earned.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:32 p.m. CST

    A little less adventure than other ST, in a confined space

    by Autodidact

    Means I'm not watchin it.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:38 p.m. CST


    by Rebel Scumb

    Did a single TOS character grow or change over the course of the entire series? Nope. It's all about plot, plot, plot and by the function of the series' style you NEED those characters to be the same people week in and week out.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 10:49 p.m. CST

    coolhandjuke... it's a metaphor

    by MurderMostFowl

    The "Search" was finding Spock, but also Spock finding himself again.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 11:03 p.m. CST

    TOS Movies

    by DougMcKenzie

    It was actually some really good work by Nimoy and Meyer to make Trek II-III work so well within small budgets and mostly sound stage work. There was a lot wrong with V but at least Shatner got us out into the mountains and desert! I do applaud Wise and Roddenberry for trying to give us high concept Sci-fi with TMP. Even though the trend in Sci-fi was more towards fantasy at the time, they gave us something a tad more high brow than standard cinema fare. It does have a horribly dated 70s vibe in the costumes (Bones showing up on ship in the butterfly collared jumpsuit and big ass medallion FTW!), that kind of dates it more severely than all the other Trek films, but all sci-fi suffer the same fate. Why Art and costume directors seem to believe that trends in 300 years would mimic today is kind of lame. Decker-Vger is a good storyline that I hate was abandoned (Don't bring up EU Pseudo-fanfic please). I thought he would have neatly dovetailed in with the Borg arc (much better than Braga's pathetic Voyager resolution to them).

  • What with the completely dramatic teenage girl hissy fit, calling me a little bitch, and then posting again seven minutes later like the previous comment doesn't exist. Dude, seriously, go take your medication already. Maybe then you'll be able to process a simple concept and post a response using English above junior high level.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 12:05 a.m. CST

    You're a vagina

    by Autodidact

    You can get me to stop calling you names by pointing out how I've contradicted myself. Or you can shut the fuck up. You're looking at my timestamps and trying to infer something from it? I have like 20 tabs open moron. Not to mention other programs. Some of us have *other* shit to do in addition to trying to convince people with perfectly sound opinions about ST that they shoud a) watch DS9 and b) not treat you like the cunt flap you clearly are.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 2:35 a.m. CST

    @autodidact you said EXPLORE SPACE

    by KilliK

    You didnt say EXPLORE FICTIONAL SPACE learn how to write,you fucking digweed.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 2:39 a.m. CST


    by KilliK

    goddam edit.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:37 a.m. CST

    How many fingers am I holding up...?

    by Desk

    "That's not damned funny!" "Have you completely lost touch with reality? "This isn't reality - this is fantasy." "Don't call me 'Tiny'." "She's supposed to have Transwarp drive." "Aye, and if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon!" So many great, great lines...

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 4:14 a.m. CST

    Nice to see Search For Spock getting the love..

    by Gabba-UK

    I've always felt it a bit harsh that it should be lumped in with the 'odd number curse' bullshit. The Shat has never emoted better than when he's told of David's death. It has one of the best line's in cinema history,("The word, is no. I am therefore going anyway." which is a good attitude to have for life in general) And finally, if anyone who claims to be Star Trek fan, didn't weep a little at the destruction of USS Enterprise, at the hands of three men who'd made a career out of saving it from destruction, you have no soul.

  • hmmm...maybe not always (unless you like prison) i consider Trek III to be 2nd best of the 11 movies (behind Khan) at the time in 84 i believe the general opinion was positive and it was considered it a worthy sequel to Khan (although not as good) then when the odd numbered curse rule took hold few years later it seemed to get lumbered in with the other 'odds' as being one of the lesser movies - until the 'curse' was broken with Nemesis (and then Trek XI)

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 8:01 a.m. CST

    Killik You prove yourself to be a retard

    by Autodidact

    Every time I see you type in my general direction. Again, being intentionally obtuse doesn't win you arguments. It just means you're a dishonest idiot.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 8:05 a.m. CST

    Killik we're talking about a fictional show

    by Autodidact

    If you need me to say I watch a fictional show so that they can explore fictional space, then you're definitely a moron.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 9:19 a.m. CST

    Christopher Lloyd makes ST3 work

    by Keith

    To this day I find myself saying the occasional phrase with the voice of Kruge: "So!" "Very good!" "A failure!"

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 9:20 a.m. CST

    I watched the director's cut of Motion Picture last year

    by Keith

    I really enjoyed it. Apart from the weird costumes, I thought it was pretty good, much better than I'd remembered. Was the re-editing important, or is it more that I'm older now and can appreciate its slower pace better?

  • when i say re-edit i mean give it the star wars treatment and redo some of the FX/add extra scenes etc - Shatner could oversee like Scott did with the Blade Runner Final Cut... drop the 'V' from the title and call it "Star Trek: Final Frontier (Directors Cut)" failing that just re-release it on dvd... before all that of course we'll probably need someone to re-edit TFF as a dream reality movie and release it on bootleg dvd/midnight showings at the local fleapit etc to get Paramounts attention

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 10:26 a.m. CST

    ideas for a Trek V DIRECTORS CUT re-edit


    -open the movie with the rock climb/campfire and put the Sybok opening and various other scenes AFTER Kirk beds down... -insert a brief scene of Kirk staring at one of those blue unicorns with a curious expression.... -include some Inception style "WAAAAHHHs!!" on the score at various points -let Shatner have his devil/rockmen end in CGI

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 10:39 a.m. CST

    Dont like that Uhura got left behind

    by HamburgerEarmuffs

    and missed out on the action

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 10:42 a.m. CST

    In Star Trek lore STIII shines...

    by Rob Sloane

    ...because it introduces so much that drives that the Star Trek universe forward. It expands on that universe, on Earth, the technological hegemony of the Federation and the feudalism of the Klingons while also re-inventing and expanding on their lore with the introduction of a full blown language, an epic new ship and music to match. STIII also continues directly from Kahn (themetically and literally) with pain, pathos and bathos in the relationships between Sarek, Kirk, McCoy, the crew and even the crew to the Enterprise. The ship is portrayed as a wounded hero, ready to sacrifice herself to save the crew and ensure their mission continues... It deals with larger issues all across the board: loss, nobility, bonds of family, of friendship and love, ageing, defiance of orders and the needs of the few (or the one) if that person is truly special. Mortality of the flesh, immortality of the spirit, creationism, science gone mad, the arms race, fear of weapons of mass destruction... There is quite literally enough in STIII to launch a dozen movies and the real miracle is that this was Paramount's attempt to retcon letting Nimoy 'kill off' Spock! It shouldn't have been anything like this... even the the tag line was derivative of Nimoy's "Search for..." TV series. James Horner placed his signature so firmly on STIII that he's been re-using the action motifs, rhythmic progressions and use of beam blaster and other non-orchestral instruments ever since! My list of theatrical Star Trek is as follows: ST II ST III ST VI ST VIII ST I I'd leave it at that - with the caveat that ST I moves up and down the list frequently. It's still the purest SF vision of humanity's future of the series and also the most grandiose in re-imagining the franchise (much more so than JJ's which just plain gets canon wrong and cops out that it's an alternate timeline where ships get built on Earth... sigh). Keep Cool, Ummphoo

  • signing off until then...

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 11:17 a.m. CST

    Klingon Killed my Bastard Son!!!

    by Seven_of_Borgnine

    Er, uh... Freudian slip!

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 11:23 a.m. CST

    Enterprise Self-Destruct

    by Seven_of_Borgnine

    Geek point, but a fair one. It's been established over and over again that when starships self-destruct they allow a warp core breach to happen. Every geek knows that the warp core is in the secondary hull, not the primary ("dish") hull, or at any rate not under the bridge. When the ship self destructs it should go up in a big clean antimatter explosion. The NCC-1701 goes up as if a terrorist snuck some C4 on it. The only part that blows up is the front part of the dish hull and it looks like a cookie somebody took a bite out of. Then all the antimatter of the warp reactors gracefully burns up in the atmosphere of the genesis planet. ... Also they had to retcon an overreaching scientist reason why David deserves to die. All in all I found ST3 to be a contrived movie with some good moments in it,but it always bugged me after the re-watchable perfection that is ST2.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 1:05 p.m. CST

    the Shatner-Laroquette scene was also classic...

    by Squinty CGI Flynn

    Kirk:"You, help us or die." Malch:"I do not deserve to live." Kirk:"Fine, I'll kill you later." ........ Kirk:"Mr. Chekov, take the prisoner below." Malch:"Wait! You said you would kill me." Kirk: "I lied."

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 1:07 p.m. CST


    by HughHoyland

    The Marshmellon thing made a lot of people scratch their heads. Its a script flub. It was supposed to be explained in the script. Just before they go on the camping trip Spock wanted to look up all there was to know about camping in geneal, being unfamiliar with the whole idea. The gag was that McCoy got into the computers data base and messed it up so that the word Marshmellow would be replaced with Marshmellon. Making Spock sound goofy when ever he mentioned it. But this was never expained in the movie and made that scene a little confusing.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 1:21 p.m. CST

    Star Trek 5

    by HughHoyland

    I still have a soft spot in my heart for it. Although the movie obviously didnt come off all that well. The movie that was released was far different than what shatner originally wanted to make. He also felt that since they had their "funny" movie in 4, he wanted 5 to be the "darker" one. Most of the comedic stuff you see was added and forced. Shatner hated it. ILM was busy with other movies so they had to go with what they thought was a B rated effects house (It actually turned out to be a D one) And he wanted the Alien on the God planet to be Satan (yep the real satan). This scene would have included them being chased by 9 demons. The studeo and producers nixed that fast. (Although they did ok Rock Men, Then just a Rock Man, then finally just a Mean Santa Clause looking alien). Unfortunatly Shatners ideas where just to big for the recources available at the time.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 2:21 p.m. CST

    ST5 is the WORST

    by Longtime Lurker

    Sorry but true. No amount of revisionism will change that. Poor story. Poor script. Poor execution. Insufferably crass humor. Truly BASIC continuity errors. These are not the fault of the effects crew, though I do agree that the effects were poor as well. I did like the idea of a pre-credit teaser, but sadly t'was all downhill from there. Having said that I did buy the DVD box set back in the day so I have all of the originals. Every once in a while I take a peek but 5 is reprehensible.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 2:24 p.m. CST

    One other thing I think is weak about ST3

    by Keith

    The failure of the Genesis project is essentially a retcon. I can understand why it's there - if Genesis had succeeded, the entire galaxy would have been transformed - but it doesn't really tally with Wrath of Khan. The "genesis cave" inside Regula has clearly been in place and stable for months or years. Are we to believe that somehow scaling it up creates a non-linear change that causes breakdown? Some of the themes of WOK are weakened if Genesis is a failure. Also, how come nobody ever chases after Carol Marcus and harangues her for using protomatter and wasting everybody's time/lives? And Kirk doesn't even put in a courtesy call to her later to let her know that her son's dead. (Although I suppose this is no less bizarre than having a quick funeral for Spock and not inviting his parents.)

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 2:34 p.m. CST

    Now about ST3:

    by Longtime Lurker

    No fab but not hideous. I do think that it suffers from being stage bound because, as I understand it, the studio would not pay for the location shooting that Nimoy had hope for. Hated Lloyd. However, I do think they managed to do quite a bit well considering their limited situation. Hated the new Klingon theme but liked much of the rest of the soundtrack. Given the fact that Saavik had been recast at this point I heartily agree with those who believe that ST 6 would have been better if Valeris had been Saavik, even if they had decided to use Kim Cattrall as a Saavik recast. In short, I think that Nimoy delivered what was asked of him, a decent film at a decent cost to the studio. Served to keep the franchise going and to show that Khan, while certainly the best, was not a fluke.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:14 p.m. CST

    @7of borgnine re self-destruct

    by Detached

    There is a theory that if a starship is close to a planet, the self-destruct will not engage the warp core, because the radioactivity would be too dangerous to life below. So instead, the ship just disables its control mechanism and burns itself up in the atmosphere (& the computer would of course be smart enough to know where the ship is). Of course, in part, this could be just an excuse for lazy writing; OTOH, it's not necessarily written in stone that the warp core has to explode in order to carry out a self-destruct order.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:15 p.m. CST

    re Shatner-Laroquette

    by Detached

    Shatner brings so much life and fun to that simple phrase, "I lied" - with his facial expression (absolutely perfect) and his jerk of the thumb, ordering the prisoner to be taken down below... just note-perfect.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:21 p.m. CST

    @misterdarcy re Genesis

    by Detached

    That's an interesting point re Genesis being a failure if the Genesis cave succeeded. However, I can see a smaller attempt succeeding (for a while) whereas a larger project (so to speak) might fail. Keep in mind, the Genesis planet does hold together for a couple of weeks or so, maybe even a month or two, before it finally starts to fall apart. Also, there is a *huge* difference between just starting some new life forms (mainly plants) in a cave and creating an entire world out of a nebula. As for Spock's funeral- it's customary to bury casualties at sea; no reason to believe that tradition wouldn't continue in the future. JHMO. And re Kirk calling Carol Marcus- he might have done so off-screen for all we know. That's not a scene I would have put into either III or IV (don't think it would fit in either one).

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:23 p.m. CST

    @longtimelurker re Saavik in STVI

    by Detached

    Actually, I think Saavik was considered for the traitor role in STVI, but as I recall, Meyer was against it. He didn't think it would work for an established (& by now beloved) character to become a traitor. At least I remember reading something along those lines.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:26 p.m. CST

    I love ST3

    by Beosker Posey III

    I love ST3 always have, always will. I like how it's really such a crisis for Kirk and his crew. I like how everything that has become the norm for them has been ripped and torn to Shreds. Spock is dead, the Enterprise is being decommissioned (eventually destroyed), Kirk loosed his son just when he has found him, and top that off they all may be going to prison. misterdarcy, how did you know that stuff didn't happen?

  • Anybody who dismisses or call ST3 a bad movie doesn't know what he's talking about. Not about ST nor about movies in general. STAR TREK III THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK is the real deal. Any movie with a soul like this one has is a real deal.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:32 p.m. CST

    "fear of not belonging to the kewl dogma party" i mena to say.

    by AsimovLives

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Kewl Dogma? More like Kool Aid...

    by Rob Sloane

    ... Alien is better than almost any other sci-fi movie out there. It's actually in the top ten (or so) of all time great movies in any genre. STIII is a wonderful film that challenges all the expectations of 80's sequels. It works with STII synergistically and packs a lot more punch than people give credit for... There are simply too many Lucas defenders and far too many Bay defenders on AICN. Thankfully there is a small but vocal community that actually appreciate well-made movies, peformances, music, vfx, and writing. Keep Cool, Ummphoo

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:48 p.m. CST

    Admiral...David is dead...


  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:48 p.m. CST

    ....klingon bastard you killed my son.....


  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:48 p.m. CST



  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:49 p.m. CST Klingon Bastard You've Killed My Son!!...


  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:50 p.m. CST

    ...***YOU KLINGON BASTARD!!!!***....


  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:55 p.m. CST



    guess the writer figured Kirk would watch his language around his friends even when his sons been killed

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 4:41 p.m. CST

    one thing i didn't like...

    by Detached

    ... was the whole "katra" concept. if a vulcan can transfer his spirit/soul to someone else, then vulcans are functionally immortal, which we know not to be true. sarek just died when his time came. now, MAYbe vulcans only resort to katra-switching in extraordinary circumstances (although why they'd do that is beyond me). that said, it does make spock's sacrifice less noble, in a sense- he wasn't really giving up his life (in fact, if he knew he was coming back, why the whole "don't grieve, admiral" speech?) but such are the things movies are made of...

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 6:27 p.m. CST

    Detached's comments

    by Beosker Posey III

    I don't think that was the case. The Genesis Planet just happen to regenerate Spock. I don't think Sarek expected this to happen. I think Vulcans keep the "Katra" in some shared ark or something. Kind of like the Matrix of Leadership in the 80's Transformers cartoon. It contained a collection of wisdom of all past Autobot leaders. Remember when T-lar told Sarek that what he ask hadn't done in ages and even then was only a legend.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 6:55 p.m. CST

    Detached: re Saavik

    by Longtime Lurker

    Yes, I heard something like that too. Another version, which I think someone has mentioned here, is that Roddenberry didn't want it, etc. but I doubt he had any influence at that point. Indeed, I believe he heartily disliked Trek 2, so I don't think he would have had any particular regard for the Saavik character or cared what happened to her. I suppose that having Saavik be the traitor would have left a sour taste in the mouth for some people but I think it would have been a nice connection and would have added a bit of depth and even a sense of loss that Saavik had turned out that way.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 7:04 p.m. CST

    ST3 scene in the good

    by Longtime Lurker

    Between the goofy waitress outfit and the "Yoda-Speak" alien Then there's the outfit on the jailer. You know, the one who says "Don't get smart, tiny." I seem to recall Baby-Blue tights and a silver hat. Ouch. :)

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 7:10 p.m. CST

    boxker re the katra

    by Detached

    interesting point. i hadn't thought of it that way. i guess knowing how things turned out, i always assumed sarek was looking for a kind of resurrection of spock. he certainly seems to be talking that way when he first shows up in the movie. but there is (sorry) some logic in what you say, especially the statement about how "this hasn't been done in ages" (i only vaguely remember that, but i do seem to recall it...)

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 7:12 p.m. CST

    lurker re saavik

    by Detached

    that's a good point, it would have been somewhat sad/bittersweet (& thus good drama) to see saavik end up that way. the fact that she was half-romulan would have made it possibly more realistic, though, that she would have decided "hey, we can't trust the klingons! this isn't going to work."

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Er if i remember correctly,in the dvd commentary of ST6

    by KilliK

    Meyer says that Kirstie Alley had become a star with the Cheers series and that she wasnt interested to play Saavik again.or was it in the ST3 commentary by Nimoy? dont remember.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 7:40 p.m. CST

    Killik: Right, as to recasting.

    by Longtime Lurker

    Saavik was recast in 3, because negotiations with Alley broke down. My only point was that, having recast the part once, they need not have created another character and I think it would have added to the tale to have Saavik be the traitor.

  • I hadn't thought of that.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 7:53 p.m. CST

    alley & st3

    by Detached

    she wanted too much $$ to come back, but it wasn't because of cheers. she didn't join cheers til 1987, which was 4 years after st3 was shot.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 7:56 p.m. CST

    lurker re saavik/romulan

    by Detached

    it is worth pointing out that they never mentioned in the st2 that saavik was half-romulan, although the production folks made that clear elsewhere. but that's a minor point. i do think it would have also added to the intirigue. she could have been cooperating with the renegade vulcans and romulans at the same time. good stuff, imho.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 8:11 p.m. CST

    Detached: I think the half romulan thing was mentioned in Starlog :)

    by Longtime Lurker

    Wow. I'm old. :)

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 8:45 p.m. CST

    lurker, me too

    by Detached

    i actually bought the first issue of starlog (yes, i was in jurassic park- the real one, not the movie). as i recall, it was published as a one-shot deal, but the sales were so good they turned it into a regular magazine. (do i dare confess i was already out of college & in the workforce by the time that first starlog came out?) saavik's heritage was i believe also mentioned in the paperbook novel, which i scanned parts of in a bookstore or two, but never read.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 10:35 p.m. CST

    Re: Kewl dogma

    by Keith

    One day....ONE DAY...maybe a majority will come to see that T2, while having some terrific moments, is a weak sequel to The Terminator (a genuinely excellent movie), is full of huge lapses in logic and is a poor spiritual successor to the themes, elegance and beauty of the original. But I'm not holding out hope.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 10:42 p.m. CST


    by Keith

    "I think Vulcans keep the "Katra" in some shared ark or something. " Yeah, I think that's right. Sarek is saddened primarily because Spock's knowledge and experiences seem to have been lost. The regeneration of Spock's physical body is an unexpected development that suggests radical new possibilities. Btw the whole "katra" thing seems at first glance to suggest Cartesian property dualism, although perhaps it's simply that Vulcans can transmit and store data in a form that most creatures can't (still 100% physical, rather than supernatural).

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 10:43 p.m. CST

    Spock's memories

    by Keith

    After ST4, Spock is treated pretty much as though he's back to normal - as though his death and regeneration might as well never have happened. Are there any further references to lost or hazy memories that appear anywhere else? (In books, TNG guest appearances etc?)

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 10:48 p.m. CST

    Regarding Katras

    by Jaka

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 10:48 p.m. CST

    Retitling of ST3

    by Keith

    I have vague memories that when the movie was announced, it was called "In Search of Spock", but that this name was changed later on (a few months before release). Can anyone else verify this, or am I imagining things? Think it was in a snippet in Starburst or similar.

  • From the Star Trek Memory Alpha. A lot of this is from books, so take it as you will. Also, fuck Enterprise and all that Jonathan Archer/Surak bulllllshit! <p> The katra, or living spirit, is the essence of the Vulcan mind and can be transferred to another person moments before death. <p> The existence of the katra was controversial, to say the least; many Vulcans thought it was nothing more than a myth, but a small group of Vulcans named the Syrrannites believed in it. In 2154 an event took place which brought the existence of the katra to the attention of the Vulcan people and its leaders, the Vulcan High Command. <p> Legend has it that ancient Vulcans used katric arks to store katras. Some of those arks were discovered at the P'Jem monastery centuries earlier. Although they were analyzed by Vulcan scientists (one of them even tried to meld with an ark), they were not found to contain a katra. <p> A highly notable surviving katra was the one of Surak, Vulcan's founder and father of Vulcan philosophy. Although Surak died in the 4th century, his katra survived to the year 2154 when it was briefly held by a Human, Captain Jonathan Archer, before its transferal to a Vulcan Priest. The reappearance of Surak's katra was instrumental in the rise of T'Pau's influence and the following reorganization of Vulcan government and society. <p> When a katra is transferred to someone, he or she will benefit from the experiences of the person the katra came from. Because the katra can resist its transfer, the procedure is not without risk and must be performed according to a specific ritual. Non-Vulcans might experience side effects like a form of multiple personality. Humans are especially vulnerable because of the severe shock a transfer can give to their nervous system. Restoring a katra to a Vulcan is preferably done by a Vulcan priest with enough experience with katras. (ENT: "The Forge", "Awakening", "Kir'Shara") <p> Vulcans can initiate a transfer of their katra by placing one of their hands on the head of the recipient and to position their fingers on specific points. Via a mind meld, a Vulcan is able to tell if someone has received a katra. <p> The katra can be restored when a person has died and his Katra was transferred to someone, if the family of that person wishes to do so. This ritual is called fal-tor-pan, which literally means "the refusion". This ritual is performed very rarely. The last time was in 2285 when Spock's regenerated body was found on Genesis and returned to Mount Seleya, where his katra was transferred from Doctor McCoy into his own body. <p> The transfer of someone's katra is not regularly practiced and is only done in special circumstances. When a Human receives a katra, the effects of the merge can be counteracted by lexorin, but this is only for a short period of time. The katra must eventually be transferred to someone else. Around 2369 the existence of the katra was common knowledge within most medical establishments. (Star Trek III: The Search for Spock; VOY: "Innocence"; DS9: "The Passenger") <p> When Tuvok had been brainwashed by the Quarren (species), he accused them of "stealing" his katra. (VOY: "Workforce, Part II"). <p> Notable katra transfers <p> * In 2154 the katra of Surak was transferred from Syrran into Captain Jonathan Archer during the aftermath of the bombing of Earth's embassy on Vulcan. After four days the katra was transferred to a Vulcan priest. (ENT: "The Forge", "Awakening", "Kir'Shara") <p> It is unclear what became of Surak's katra after this. <p> * In 2285 Spock transferred his katra to Doctor McCoy moments before he entered the radiation room to give the USS Enterprise her warp capability back, so they could flee the Mutara Nebula before the Genesis Device detonated. Spock died of radiation poisoning and his body was "buried at sea" using a photon torpedo as a coffin. The torpedo landed on the emerging Genesis planet, though, where his reanimated body was later found and returned to Vulcan. There, on Mount Seleya the fal-tor-pan ritual was later performed by T'Lar at the request of Sarek, his father, to reunite his katra, carried by Doctor McCoy, with his body. (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan; Star Trek III: The Search for Spock) <p> It is possible that katra transfers are not complete transfers but rather a copying of information, much like copying a file rather than moving it. Spock was fully functional with all his memories after the transference of his katra to Doctor McCoy which would not be possible if everything he was mentally was completely removed. <p> Apocrypha <p> * In the Star Trek: Vanguard series of novels, the Vulcan science officer T'Prynn is a val'reth. She holds the katra of another, her would-be mate Sten, who she challenged for her freedom in the kal-if-fee. Against her will, Sten transferred his katra into her mind as he died and refuses to leave T'Prynn's mind until she submits to his will. It is, however, unclear whether the term val'reth refers to T'Prynn having been given the katra without her consent (in which case, Archer and McCoy could also be referred to as val'reths) or whether it refers to the fact that Sten's katra would not allow itself to be removed from T'Prynn's mind. * In several Star Trek novels, reference is made to a chamber within Mount Seleya known as the "Hall of Ancient Thought". In the Hall are thousands of receptacles (vre'katra) containing the katras of the greatest and most powerful Vulcan masters throughout history. Vulcan scholars, philosophers, and mystics could petition to be permitted to meld with these katras for research or enlightenment. * The novel The Lost Years deals extensively with the concept of katras and katra transfers. The novel speaks of an ancient warrior named Zakal, who died the day before the Romulans left Vulcan during the Time of Awakening, and his katra was stored for over two thousand years. When he was revived in the 23rd century, Zakal's first comment was that the Vulcans apparently hadn't run out of "S-names" for their male population. * The novel Beneath the Raptor's Wing had the katra of Surak surviving in various vulcan priests after it was transferred from Captain Archer. One priest carrying the katra was killed by a Romulan assassin and the katra lost. <p> According to the book Vulcan's Soul Trilogy Book Two: Exiles, there was a womb of fire where katras were reborn, and katras could dissolve.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 10:56 p.m. CST

    Detached: That's Ace :) hope you held on to that issue.

    by Longtime Lurker

    If I recall, that was '76 and it had a Star Trek Original Series image on the cover (after all, that's the only kind of Star Trek there was back then.) Good times :)

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 11:13 p.m. CST

    misterdarcy, yes, kind of

    by Jaka

    Spock mentions having gone through everything that happens in ST II and III (death, rebirth, loss of katra, friend holding his katra, return of his katra, rebuilding himself) numerous times in the books. But as far as I can remember its never a major part of any of the books in which its mentioned.

  • Aug. 9, 2011, 4:52 a.m. CST

    lurker, sorry, but...

    by Detached

    ... that first issue of starlog is long gone. who knew it would last so long? btw, i think it was in 1978- not sure...

  • Aug. 9, 2011, 11:32 a.m. CST

    Antimatter doesn't "burn up in the atmosphere..."

    by Seven_of_Borgnine

    If the atmosphere in question is regular matter. It's lazy writing to cover up some storyboards some exec went nuts over. I still love the scene of K, S, McC watching it burn up though. "My God, Bones... what have I done?"