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AICN COMICS OPINIONS ARE LIKE @$$HOLES: superhero gives us 7 Reasons TORCHWOOD: MIRACLE DAY Sucks!!!

Hey ho, it’s Ambush Bug with our occasional segment the @$$holes and myself refer to as “Opinions Are Like @$$Holes”, our op ed column where one @$$Hole grabs the mike and spouts his two to nine cents on an issue pertaining to comics or whatever. Longtime reviewer superhero has some mighty powerful opinions on the new TORCHWOOD series, MIRACLE DAY. But let's let him explain...

superhero here. OK…I’ve given the thing four episodes and I don’t know. I think I have to officially say that TORCHWOOD: MIRACLE DAY sucks. I keep watching it in hopes that it’s going to get better but I think I’m just going to have to accept that the TORCHWOOD that I knew and loved is gone, baby, gone.

Which makes me more than a little sad. Look, obviously TORCHWOOD was never the greatest of shows. I’ll admit that. The first series (as the Brits like to call them) had a rocky start but really grew on me. Obviously, I stayed tuned into it because it was a Doctor Who spinoff but by the second season TORCHWOOD was a fun little sci-fi show that was firing on all thrusters. Of course, “Children of Earth” was a bit of a letdown because of a shortened season but it was still good enough for me that I was able to accept it as the end of the show…being that it looked like the BBC wasn’t going to fund it anymore because of budget cuts. But when Starz announced that they would be funding a fourth series I was hopeful that something great would arise from the original TORCHWOOD’s ashes. I was hoping that an American cable network would be able to do something terrific and take TORCHWOOD to the next level.

Boy, was I wrong.

So here are my reasons why, four episodes in, I see the new Americanized TORCHWOOD as almost an embarrassment. After almost every episode I’ve gone on Facebook and whined about how terrible the new season is. So these are my reasons why I think TORCHWOOD has gone off the rails in an awful way. There be SPOILERS below so proceed with caution if you don’t want anything ruined for you. But honestly, the show itself has ruined TORCHWOOD enough so nothing I’m going to say is going to make it any worse.


In no particular order:

 

1.

The show has gone from presenting individual stories per episode with an overriding series arc to being just one long, drawn out story. Gone are the great little individual episodes with crazy aliens and time travelers or whatever. Now it’s just one big story. This was tolerable with “Children of Earth” because it was a truncated season of five episodes but I have no idea why they would go with this approach with ten episodes at their disposal. Now the pacing of the whole show is off and everything is just draaaaagggeeeddd out to the point of where things have gotten tiresome after only four episodes. I get it--no one’s dying. OK, move on. Seriously, one whole episode devoted to Captain Jack Harkness being poisoned with cyanide? Really? Where’s the derring-do of previous TORCHWOOD episodes? And speaking of Jack Harness…


 

2.

Why in god’s name have Jack Harkness and Gwen Cooper been relegated to secondary characters? What happened there? Instead of Jack Harkness being the leader of the team, he’s been supplanted by an American character played by Mekhi Phifer. Jack Harkness, played by a fantastically charismatic John Barrowman, was the heart and soul of TORCHWOOD. In “Miracle Day” he’s been pushed back to supporting role status. He should be the one in charge. Instead of a fantastical Captain Kirk type character we get a badly written, horribly acted CIA operative leading the team as played by Phifer. I know Phifer’s a good actor. He’s done great work in other projects but he can’t carry the load that Barrowman was able to carry in the old TORCHWOOD. He doesn’t have the charm or the gravitas to be the anchor of the show.

 

3.

Which brings me to the American actors. Holy cow, what’s going on here? They are all good actors, or at least they’ve done terrific jobs in other projects, but on TORCHWOOD: MIRACLE DAY it’s like someone told them all to act their little hearts out. Every single American actor is overdoing everything to the hilt. It’s like the British contingent (I know Barrowman is technically an American but he’s part of the original British TORCHWOOD so bear with me) has a completely different acting coach on the set or something. I mean, the first time Lauren Ambrose turned up on the show I thought someone snuck a speedball into her coffee on the set that morning. Really, bring it down a little. Not every line has to be stated with overly manic glee. And Bill Pullman’s not much better. Obviously he’s trying to bring some quirky mannerisms to his pedophile child killer character but he ends up coming off as someone who’s got something seriously physically wrong with him. He’s not creepy--just weird. When I first saw the trailer for TORCHWOOD: MIRACLE DAY and saw Pullman cast as some kind of serial killer I thought he was perfectly cast because he’s been able to turn in great understated performances in the past. But on this show it’s like he’s just trying to go outside of the box and failing miserably. Bill, please, stay inside the box. You were better inside the box. The box is good for you. Whatever you’re doing now isn’t. And Mekhi Phifer? Chew, chew, chew. Yell, yell, yell. Wow, that’s some bad acting. What happened to Mekhi Phifer? He’s a good actor but on this it’s like he’s trying to channel modern day Al Pacino. Guess what? Everyone knows modern day Pacino is terrible. “Godfather” Al Pacino is brilliant. Subtlety. Look it up.

 

4.

The whole evil pharmaceutical company thing. Really? Hey, I’m a California liberal. That’s liberal with a capital “L” and even I think that the underlying theme in TMD is tired. Not only that but it’s so knock you over the head obvious that it makes me think that the creators of this TORCHWOOD think their audience is full of morons. I just talked about the lack of subtlety in the acting…the lack of subtlety in the writing is embarrassing. It’s like a teenager wrote the thing. It comes across like teenage fanfic. There are so many ways you could go with the whole world becoming immortal and what they choose to do is make it an evil pharmaceutical company plot to sell more drugs? Really? Really? That’s lame. Oh, I’m sure by the end it’ll be revealed that the pharma company is run by aliens or immortals or whatever. That won’t make it better. That’ll just make it more silly than it already is. I expect more from writers like Russell T. Davies and Jane Espenson.

 

5.

All of this brings me to the biggest thing that is the fly in the ointment in this new TORCHWOOD. This ties into the bad writing but it’s such a big point that I have to single it out. So everyone on Earth has become immortal, correct? And Captain Jack, who was immortal, is now mortal. He can die now. The big insinuation is that with Jack losing his immortality and humanity gaining immortality that somehow things have been switched. But there’s one big problem. We all know that if Jack gets hurt he’ll just regenerate. If he gets cut, it’ll close back up. If he’s shot in the heart it’ll grow back and he’ll come back to life. So why can’t all the humans who have become immortal regenerate? If they’ve switched (and OK, maybe they haven’t, but that’s what the show is saying has happened right now), why are we seeing people on Earth still with burn scars or bullet holes or whatever injuries killed them? Why aren’t they able to regenerate like Captain Jack? I’ll tell you why. Because it’s more gruesome if someone who gets blown up stays a charred living corpse. Which is fine by me but if you’re saying that everyone’s immortal like the good ol’ Captain then they should all heal like the good ol’ Captain. Unless, of course, the people of Earth haven’t switched their mortality with Captain Jack’s. Unless the switch is a red herring. But here’s the thing about red herrings: they shouldn’t be so obvious. So if it’s a red herring it’s a badly done one. If it isn’t it’s just badly thought out writing. Either way…it’s disappointing.

 

6.

And speaking of bad writing…you honestly expect me to believe that the government of the United Kingdom is going to allow the United States government to kidnap their crack team of paranormal experts who’ve saved the world over a dozen times over because, well, for no reason? The writers couldn’t find a better idea for why Jack and Gwen would have to go investigate “Miracle Day” inside of the U.S.? No, they have to be taken against their will to U.S. soil because…well, for no reason at all? I mean, what if “Miracle Day” was only happening in the U.S.? That might necessitate the TORCHWOOD team to go to the U.S. to investigate. But that would require some thoughtful writing. That is something that was obviously not what was going on here. Instead whatever is the easiest and laziest way to get TORCHWOOD to U.S. soil is what the writers use. For that matter why does TORCHWOOD: MIRACLE DAY even need to take place in the U.S.? A U.S. produced TV show can’t take place in England? Hell, all the work in Hollywood’s already going to Canada why can’t TMD just be happening in the U.K.? Is there some special rule that says because it’s going to be co-produced by an American cable company it has to take place in the U.S.? Can’t American characters just go to the U.K. and work there instead of coming up with some bogus reason why TORCHWOOD has to be transplanted to the U.S.? I mean, “Miracle Day” is happening everywhere right? Oh, I forgot. TORCHWOOD needs to comment on our lousy healthcare system instead of just providing some good sci-fi entertainment.

 

7.

The score. Sorry, the music is terrible. It’s all over the place badly produced cheap cable TV music. I know it sounds like nitpicking but it’s not. Whoever’s scoring these episodes needs to go back to the drawing board. It’s horrible. Makes an already awkward show even worse.

So those are my seven reasons why the new TORCHWOOD sucks. What can I say? I really liked the first three seasons of TORCHWOOD because it was fun show. I love Russell T. Davies. I owe him a debt I can never repay for bringing Doctor Who into the modern TV landscape. But this season of TORCHWOOD is a serious misstep. I think that the biggest problem with the new TORCHWOOD is that it’s taking itself too seriously. It almost wants to be 24 but it should be more like the show it spawned from: DOCTOR WHO. Most of the whimsy is gone and it’s been replaced by a need to be…I don’t know…gritty. Or, lord help us, relevant. This new TORCHWOOD is a big let down.

I have to admit, though, I’m a phony. As much as this season is driving me up the wall I’m going to finish it off, mostly because of my love for the original British show but also to just see how bad it’s going to get. Or maybe it will be able to improve. Either way, I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I hope Starz cancels it. That way maybe it can return to the BBC and go back to being that show that I once enjoyed so much.


Discovered as a babe in an abandoned comic book storage box and bitten by a radioactive comic fan when he was a teenager, superhero is actually not-so mild mannered sometime designer & cartoonist, Kristian Horn of Los Angeles, California. He's been an @$$hole for three years. Some of his work can be seen at www.kristianhorn.com and check out his blog at www.parttimefanboy.com.

Editing, compiling, imaging, coding, logos & cat-wrangling by Ambush Bug
Proofs, co-edits & common sense provided by Sleazy G
Readers Talkback
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  • Aug. 5, 2011, 9:31 a.m. CST

    TORCHWOOD HAS ALWAYS BEEN UTTER PISH...

    by johnnyrandom

    ...just like Dr Who. Sci-Fi written by people who've never read proper Sci-Fi. Oh, and a prize to the first moron to pipe up and say " A true fan of Science Fiction never calls it Sci-Fi, it's SF. Harlan Ellison says so." Fuck you, and fuck Harlan Ellison...the prize you just won is a punch in the throat.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 9:38 a.m. CST

    I disagree with every point in this review...

    by spikeandjezebel

    ...except the one about the music - I don't like it either. But I am enjoying this season of Torchwood enormously so far. The fact that it is one long story over 10 episodes is its greatest strength - the monster-of-the-week stories in the first two seasons were what kept me from enjoying the show then.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 9:44 a.m. CST

    spikeandjezebel - lol me too

    by thedottedlion

    You mean the fact that it's no longer the British ripoff of X-files is a BAD thing?

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 9:44 a.m. CST

    Nah, I don't agree.

    by kubricksnutsack

    I've been enjoying the show. Yes, Barrowman is playing down his Cap'n Jack persona because the new folks cannot believe that he is an immortal. They've taken the fantastical world of Cardiff into the real world and so real world dynamics occur. It's good TV here in Blighty, so I think you Yanks have been spoilt for too long and don't realise a good romp when you see one.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Yes it's bad

    by jemagee

    Yes Torchwood Miracle Day is bad, and yes the story is terrible and yada yada yada, but the moment someone says they 'love' RTD, I lose all respect for them as a human being. RTD is crap, RTD is why Eccleston left Dr Who. The only thing I hoped was that with Espenson on the writing would improve and RTD's obsession with Jacks penis would end, however it's obvious that RTD is still the guiding farce (sic) behind Torchwood. Please, if you have any shred of respectability as a geek, you wouldn't say you loved RTD, it's like saying you don't think Big Bang Theory is offensive to geeks everywhere. God DAMN I want my geek back.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 10:28 a.m. CST

    Let me refute all of these points.

    by shutupfanboy

    1. Torchwood has never been just individual episodes. Day one was the arc about Gwen coming onboard and dealing with it. Then it became the love stories of Owen/Tosh and Jack and Ianto. Also Children of Earth was one long story and people came all over that. 2. They have to be. There are so many characters in this story they have to take a back seat to everyone else. Besides their scenes together make it special and really move the series along. 3. I didn't like Pfier's character, but he has grown on me. Bill Pullman is pulling off Emmy worth shit. The doctor is great. I like the new girl, but I can see where some would find her a bit annoying. 4. If you truly believe its just a pharmaceutical company, you are a moron. Yes, I can see a company exploiting a crisis or making one to make one. It happens every day with the oil company and network news. One this huge probably not, but again I doubt its just a pharmaceutical company. 5. You are complaining about a plot point that isn't even close to being resolved. That is just nit picking. Besides, how did Jack become Jack via the heart of the Tardis. So, I am thinking the Doctor and Amy probably fucked this up with Big Bang. 6. Considering the UK has been the Americans lap dog, yeah. Also, its in their best interest to work together than going out on their own. In a universe after the political disaster of Children of Earth in the UK. You better believe they are going to want to have the Americans there if nothing else to share the blame. Our healthcare system does suck. 7. I have heard worse. 5.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 10:28 a.m. CST

    I disagree as well

    by calnorso

    I haven't watched the UK version so I have no prior basis to go off of, but my wife and I really enjoy this show each week (haven't watched episode 4 yet). Some of it is a tad spotty but overall it's pretty exciting. My only real complaint is I wish that they would catch those of us who are not caught up in the prior lore up to what Torchwood is all about

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 10:34 a.m. CST

    Boo, hiss.

    by blackwood

    Yeah, no. Nothing I agree with here -- especially not the whinging. But I am not a long-time Torchwood fan so I don't feel possessive of the characters or have perspective on how much they've changed from the Torchwood you knew and loved. But I will directly question one thing you've said, superhero: the UK letting the US government kidnap Torchwood -- isn't the UK gov trying to kill Torchwood? With helicopters and bombs and things? That part was never really clear to me, so maybe I misunderstood, but I thought that Torchwood had been disavowed and they were in hiding from the UK gov. Maybe that's neither here nor there for your complaint, but I don't feel that bit in the show is unreasonable at all. I'm finding the show to be fun, thoughtful, a bit camp but also nicely dark. I don't think the Big Pharma angle is overplayed, and I don't think Gwen and Jack are ill-served by the American invasion. CHILDREN OF EARTH was the first bit of Torchwood I'd ever seen, and it knocked my socks off. It Went Dark Places that I didn't expect. I wouldn't say MIRACLE DAY is on par with it, but there's more left, so I'm in. I'm especially fond of the format -- one story per season. I like that it's more a mini series than a traditional on-going show. I dig that.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Yes, it's crap.

    by SmokingRobot

    Gay liberal propaganda, badly acted, badly written. John Barrowman can't act his way out of a phone booth. The woman who plays Gwen is pretty good, but she can't save this mess.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 11:01 a.m. CST

    Spot on

    by Spartacus44

    As an avid Torchwood fan here in the UK I totally agree with the points made above - this series is soooo slow and the US actors have taken over - it's not really very good is it!

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 11:09 a.m. CST

    No It's not that great....

    by ClaireRedfield

    But it's not as bad as superhero would make it out to be. And most of his reasons for disliking it are a bit illogical. 1: That's a change for Torchwood, yes. But there are plenty of shows on TV that are formatted like this. There is nothing wrong with this format. I wish more shows would focus on one long adventure for the characters to wind their way through. It can be pretty thrilling, and can offer more opportunities for character growth than "weekly baddies". Are the writers belaboring certain points? Yeah, I agree there. But that's not an inherent flaw of the format itself. And dude, it's not even halfway through, relax a little. They're ramping it up. 2: Just on the face of it, not true. It's more of an ensemble show now, but Jack and Gwen are getting their moments to shine. I would say its equal time. There is a bit of time dedicated to INTRODUCING people we don't know, and that's just common sense from a storytellling standpoint. I think your perspective might be a bit skewed because of... 3: The overacting. Dude, you got me there. I cannot argue with this. I thought Lauren Ambrose toned it down a bit in the last episode, so I think it was just plain bad direction that had her so over the top in the first couple of eps. But Mekhi Pfifer? I just... wow... I don't even know... 4: Unresolved and too early to tell, thus too early to get all panty twisted about. 5: Worst point of all. Your basing a complaint about the show on your own leap of logic that has not been at all substantiated. It's just conjecture based on a random observation by the characters. They don't know. You don't know. That's the point right now. Is it the fact that you don't know that pisses you off? 6: Sour grapes about the relocation to America? Honestly felt the same way at first. It's like how shows/movies move established characters to LA or New York just because it's easier to shoot there or the producers have a house there. I think there are many valid story-based reasons for the characters to end up in America. Did the writers choose the best way to do it? Definitely arguable. Is there a lot of social commentary in the background? Yes, it's Russell T Davies. You say you're a fan and didn't expect that? Shame on you. 7: Meh. Hadn't noticed. I'm going to assume you're just exaggerating about hoping it's canceled, because that just seems counter-productive. There's nothing else out there like Torchwood, even in it's current incarnation. It's still got a lot of heart, and a lot of fun, that is rare to find on television. I like RTD, unashamedly, faults and all. And I like the characters he's created. I hope they keep getting better, not that they fail because they aren't doing everything I want them to do. Fuck that cynical geek entitlement bullshit. Stay positive for the genres and performers you love.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 11:10 a.m. CST

    re: "a fantastically charismatic John Barrowman"

    by buggerbugger

    You've got to be kidding, right? Creating a series around a character as shitty as Jack Harkness was the first of many things they got wrong when they came up with 'Torchwood'. The only possible way they could make the series worse would be to have Catherine Tate turn up as Torchwood's Slinky-jawed comedy-relief secretary.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 11:22 a.m. CST

    It's... just... so... slowwww....

    by belasco_house

    Children of Earth zipped along, Miracle Day is painful grind And - as mentioned in the post - why drag out Jack's poisoning on the plane soooo long when *SORT OF SPOILERY* any Who fan will know when Jack finally dies, in his big ol'jar. There's was no tension in that scene.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 11:33 a.m. CST

    How is a company that made you immortal evil?

    by Saen

    That is what I am not getting about this stupid ass show. 1 company just made everyone on the planet immortal and they are the bad guys. And whats the bullshit about people not being able to be killed. They blew up that one bad guy with a bomb, he loses half his body, then they cant figure out how to kill him! They cut off his head but they dont think to just fucking BURN HIM. They could incinerate people, its not complicated. The number of retarded plot holes in this show is just outrageous.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 11:35 a.m. CST

    let me dismantle torchwood miracle..so far....

    by emeraldboy

    episode one... lots of action....zero plot.... stuff happens in that episode that makes very little sense. Torchwood has been wiped off the face of the earth and all knowledge of it has vanished. so question one is if it has been destroyed where the hell did they get those weapons from. like the rocket launcher gwen uses to down the helicopter at the end of episode one. and the scene in gwens house in wales with her new baby and the guns was laughable. because torchwood no longer exists. episode two episode two was more of the same. hi octane action with a plot that made very little sense. this was the moment where they brought in the americans. Episode three was just about stupidest thing I ever saw. at least they did try and bring in more of the story. but they made a complete hash of it. the scene on the airplane was just hysterical. episode 4 was the episode call I am jack and I am mortal and was by far the gayest episode ever in torchwood's history. Russell t threw caution to the wind and not only did jack cop off with a russian, there was one scene where jack and is infiltrating his russian friend. while they are supposedly infiltrating phicorp. ok russell we get it har har. I did post else where that i do think there is a link to moffats dr who and this. and i think there is a crossover being created here. In fairness last nights episode was not bad. meki phifer's rex has a bad heart. and I thought the scene with the guy menacing jack and gwen was tense. I just wish they would tone down the action a little. I have been watching this since the teasers. and I am very disappointed with how this show has been badly handled. I hope that the finale when it does is worth it. but I think the jury is out....

  • Much like Doctor Who, Buffy, Angel, X-Files and lots of other sci-fi shows each episode was pretty much self-contained with an underlying plot running through the whole season which would sort of get wrapped up in the final episode. If you never got that you weren't watching closely enough. And anyone, ANYONE, who thinks that the acting is good this season...well, needs to go have their head examined. It's awful. Sorry, I say that with all due respect for the Talkback community but it's true.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 11:55 a.m. CST

    Three Points

    by under_the_radar

    Three points: 1. Children of Earth was amazing. Superhero, you don't seem to give the season its full due. It was some of the best TV sci-fi of the last decade. It blew away the first two seasons of Torchwood (especially season 1). 2. So far, Miracle Day has not been as good as Children of Earth. You have a few valid points. It's too Americanized, Jack and Gwen aren't a big enough part of it, and some of the music cues suck (too much electric guitar to show that we're now in America). Although I don't mind them stretching out the story over 10 episodes, although the pacing in episode 3 was too slow, so they probably could've told the story in less episodes. 3. But, I've already seen episode 5, which airs tonight, and it's the best episode of the season so far and might be a bit of a game-changer for the season. So don't give up on it yet.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 12:04 p.m. CST

    I'm not giving up Radar...

    by superhero

    But I am wincing at what I've seen thus far. I hope it gets better, I really do.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 12:15 p.m. CST

    Yes, but that Welsh bird has fantastic tits!

    by BiggusDickus

  • 1 blame RTD, starz had nothing to do with it, RTD wanted it 13 eps, starz toned it down... 2 your just dreaming, Phifer always reluctantly refers to Jack for what to do, they are in torchwood, jacks the leader... 3, why would i take the advice of a writer of aicn, on acting especially... 4, do you really have no imagination, it will have nothing to do with drugs because it clearly has something to do with jack, "HE DID SOMETHING TO SOMEONE A LONG TIME AGO AND THIS IS WHAT HE GETS FOR IT" he doesnt remember what he did or to who or why this is happening but it could be anyone of any race or species throughout all of time getting revenge on jack... 5, JACK IS IMMORTAL BECAUSE OF THE THE TARDIS, EARTHS POPULATION ISNT, end of story... 6, torchwood doesnt exist anymore to the highest up secret UK government, there were 4 or 5 torchwood institues, that was the last one, its gone, torchwood is dead, end of story, also RTD wanted to go worldwide... 7...your correct on this one, the music does suck, and the only good part is when you hear that torchwood noise a time or two in the eps and then the ending credits... also, if starz cancels it then torchwood will die forever, without starz torchwood wouldnt be around anymore

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 12:24 p.m. CST

    I expect more from writers like Russell T. Davies and Jane Espenson.

    by BiggusDickus

    Really? I would suggest you need to watch some more of their output then. Hacks, the pair of 'em.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 12:25 p.m. CST

    That last headline was in quotations!

    by BiggusDickus

    Jesus, have they STILL not ironed the bugs out of this site yet?

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 12:30 p.m. CST

    It's ALWAYS been crap....it's by R.T.D.

    by LORDOFLIGHT

    Maybe it's taken some people longer than others to cotton on to the fact that Rubbish T. Davies is a shit writer. A shit writer who should never have been let anywhere near Dr Who.....let alone be in fuckin control of the show.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 12:32 p.m. CST

    And how can anyone take Barrowman seriously as an actor when...

    by LORDOFLIGHT

    he's prancing about presenting all these tv shows.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 12:42 p.m. CST

    So it's basically like Dr. Who

    by DonnyUnitas

    Relatively shitty overrated program with a groan of a premise, backed up with horrible acting and an even worse environment. Gotcha. I'll pass on this one, too.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 12:47 p.m. CST

    Does Pullman's story make more sense?

    by Bass Ackwards

    From the ads, the idea that someone on death row would simply be set free of they couldn't kill him seemed really really stupid. Does the actual show somehow make it a bit more plausible?

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 12:49 p.m. CST

    Why would I take some jackass talkbacker's opinion on acting...

    by superhero

    seriously! That's why the column is called Opnions are like @$$holes! And Pfeifer's character NEVER defers to Jack. He's always too busy yelling at everyone and chewing scenery to listen to anyone's opinion about anything. So the British government has no idea Torchwood exists but the U.S. government is the only one to figure out that it does? Really? More lazy writing.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 1:07 p.m. CST

    The biggest reason that Miracle Day fails

    by david starling

    Is that Torchwood now resembles nothing more than a hybrid of one of those godawful CSI Series, coupled with a third-rate X Files plot cast-off!! Torchwood used to be a fun, thrilling little ride that even though it was flawed was a million miles from the po-faced X Files freak of the week. Now its equal, and it has no face or personality of any kind whatsoever. I'll wait for the next series, and whatever that does, if there is to be a next series that is.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 1:11 p.m. CST

    Oi! Superman...

    by s0l

    Paraphrasing Gwens scene in the aircraft: Barrowman's not English; He's Scots *Headbut*

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Thank you for the first post, johnnyrandom

    by DoctorTom

    it makes me appreciate the civility in the Docbacks that much more. <br> By the way, you're completely and utterly wrong on the comment 'Sci-Fi written by people who've never read proper Sci-Fi.' And managing to invoke Harlan Ellison and insult him in the first posting on a thread about Torchwood, something that to my knowledge he has never commented on, wins you a kewpie doll. <br> But, since I can't post a kewpie doll in an email, as a substitute I will have to direct you to a website where they're starting to collect the scripts that Harlan Ellison wrote for television (and if you order now you can get the limited version of the 1st volume which includes some Babylon 5 stuff as well as being signed): <br> www.harlanbooks.com <br> There, you can read scripts by someone who has both read and written 'proper' science fiction (since I won't say 'sci-fi' about Harlan's work).

  • Yes, and for several reasons <br> First, I have to ask 'Do you mean the same crack team of paranormal experts that the British Government was out killing in Torchwood: Children of Earth? The same crack team of paranormal experts that has 2 of the surviving members in hiding (Gwen and Owen) and their other member off-planet for a while? The same crack team who's worried that the British government might still be hunting them and trying to kill them? I just wanted to make sure we were talking about the right crack team of paranormal experts - I wanted to make sure you weren't suddenly talking about UNIT or Sarah Jane Smith and her Scooby gang. <br> Second, even if we are talking about the same crack team of paranormal experts and the British government has gotten over wanting to kill them (and, given that Torchwood managed to pull off a win when the British government was willing to let all those children die, there's quite a bit of embarrassment that the government would have that would easily turn into resentment, and want to deal with their embarrassment by getting rid of the people who embarrassed them) there's still good reason for the British to allow them to be turned over. It's still the same universe as in Doctor Who. That means THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER KILLED THE U.S, PRESIDENT! Even is most of the Harold Saxon stuff got wiped out in the rewind, there was still a lot of stuff going on where the British acted outrageously to the Americans, and the new British regime is probably sucking up to the Americans in order to mend fences.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 1:48 p.m. CST

    The biggest problem with Torchwood...

    by snappy

    ...is RTD's obsession with making it a more 'adult' show by incorporating scenes where Jack has sex with another man. Given that Jack is supposed to be "omnisexual" or whatever euphemism they used when introducing his character, shouldn't some of his conquests include women? Or have we now given up the pretence that Jack is anything but gay? Either way, RTD should realise that a show for grown-ups should tackle serious issues in an intelligent way, rather than go for R-rated simulated gay sex scenes.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 1:51 p.m. CST

    I expect more from writers like Russell T. Davies...

    by -Halfscan-

    See? ...there was your first mistake.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 2:07 p.m. CST

    The writing *is* bad

    by Jakester

    Look at how much stupid shit Esther Drummond did in episode 4. It's crap a 10-year old playing spy knows you don't do. I don't care about her backstory, or Rex's either. And speaking of Rex Matheson, he's complete CIA agent cliche. The population would become an issue, but it would take longer than they say. The injured people are healing, but at a much slower rate than Jack heals - I hope that gets addressed, but it probably won't. That the big bad is a big pharmaceutical company is tired. I'm beginning to not care about the A-plot at all. Oswald Danes is the best part of the show and that's because he's a creepy motherfucker. I mean, how wrong was it that he was picking up that baby? That.Was.So.Wrong. IT WAS AWESOME!

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 2:10 p.m. CST

    Snappy

    by Jakester

    I agree. I really have no problem if Jack wants to shag dudes, but they've made a point of saying he'll bang anything that's hot and sentient, so all he goes for anymore is guys?

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Oh what a surprise...

    by BloodiedFox

    ...the homophobes rush in to the talkback to have a rant. At least the guy who wrote this article offered legitimate criticisms. Most everyone here is just launching into round 5 million of "ew, faggots"

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Just like that douchebag hated Game of Thrones' first four eps...

    by Billyeveryteen

    This impatient ponce not only dislikes it, for not being "his" show, he calls for it to be canceled. What a tool. I like all of Tourchwood, and am really enjoying this one. My take is that the big bad is supernatural, making it's BIG play.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Annie Walker of "Covert Affairs"

    by Peter David

    Much more compelling CIA operative. She could solve this whole thing in one, maybe two episodes tops. That said, I'm still enjoying the series. PAD

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 3:11 p.m. CST

    snappy, they HAVE established Jack as omnisexual

    by DoctorTom

    they have made the point that Jack does love Gwen, but since it's not as 'in your face' as him having sex with a man, I guess some people are overlooking that part of the show.

  • that was ready to hand over children in Children of Earth is still in power??? I don't know about you but if some government poser tried to steal my kid I'd raise some hell and make sure that they paid for that! I'm just sayin'!

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 3:19 p.m. CST

    Oh, and you all need to get over the gay stuff.

    by superhero

    Seriously, it's 2011 for crying out loud! There can't be one dude on one show who likes dudes? Grow up!

  • Even if some of the later ones were better (by a miniscule amount)....the first few Torchwank episodes were fuckin atrocious.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 3:24 p.m. CST

    I have to agree

    by cory

    however my problem lies with Starz. Why the fuck cant this network produce anything that doesnt come off as looking cheap and rushed compared to a 90s B-movie? They can get leigitimately interesting premise but they cant deliver. They're the fucking Fox Studios of cable tv.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Most Torchwank fans seem more interested in who's shagging who.

    by LORDOFLIGHT

    You only have to look at some of the forums discussing Torchwood and you'll see most fans aren't interested in the sci fi.......they're interested in the sex. Mind you.....theat's mainly what Rubbish T. Davies is interested in anyway....so is anyone surprised. As long as Captain Jack's bent over a table being shafted from behind....Torchwank fans are happy.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 3:32 p.m. CST

    bloodyfox, what the hell are you talking about?

    by ClaireRedfield

    Out of over 40 posts only one (maybe two?) mentioned gay sex as something to whine about. So far it's been a comparitively polite and reasonable talkback with valid opinions. And I love pointing out racists and homophobes and their bullshit logic, but come on: Are you hoping to drum up some ignorant a-holes by talking about them before they even show up? And actually, jakester above has a valid point. If Jack were simply gay, no problem. But there's been no apparent attraction to females so far. It does seem a bit off from what they established early on in the series. I'm willing to write it off as he just has a guy preference and only likes particular types of women (strong, good-hearted ones like Gwen and Rose?), but still, its a valid point. Maybe, just this once, it's because they like consistency in a character, and not because they are homophobic? Hmm? Whaddaya say?

  • the middling civil servants carrying out all the policies remain the same, so the attitudes probably remain the same. They obviously aren't out trumpeting Torchwood as the 'Heroes of the 456 Incident' since Gwen was still staying in hiding, so Torchwood isn't being welcomed with open arms in the government like you claim.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 3:39 p.m. CST

    I will agree that things seem to be stretched out

    by DoctorTom

    I haven't felt that stories have been padded like this since watching John Pertwee 6 parters. Still, they've been throwing in at least one good bit in each episode, so I've been enjoying the show overall. It's just doesn't feel like the show's firing on all cylinders the way it did during Children of Earth. I don't think it's because of it being 'Americanized', though.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 3:41 p.m. CST

    claireredfield

    by BloodiedFox

    Eh, they're making enough noise to drown out everything else, but maybe I'm just tetchy like that. And it's hard to establish Jack as an omnisexual in more recent Torchwood because he's either been a) with Ianto b) moping about Ianto being dead. In Dr Who, where the character is honestly more enjoyable because he's less mopey, he consistently flirted with everyone: male, female, alien, whatever. The main problem is that they keep trying to sell some kind of Jack/Gwen love that can not be, which doesn't work because the actors don't have sexual chemistry with each other.

  • I'll grant you that he's been more interested in the women when he's been on Doctor Who than Torchwood, but whenever he's shown up there he's had interest in women (Chantho in Utopia, Sarah Jane Smith in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End). <br> And, again, he's shown the interest in Gwen even in this season, but he's not just looking for a one night stand.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 4:11 p.m. CST

    @SuperHero

    by jemagee

    <i>Seriously, it's 2011 for crying out loud! There can't be one dude on one show who likes dudes? Grow up! </i> That's not the point. The point is that RTD seems obsessed with sex to the point of ignoring everything else, with his move to cable where he can have actual (and pointless) sex scenes (between two men AND between a man and a woman - they're BOTH pointless), it's that RTD (who you might or might not know originated QAF in England) focuses more on sex than he does story. Plus by the end of COE he had killed off every quality character EXCEPT Jack (I hate Gwen) Oh yes - to the earlier poster - it's a lot like doctor who cause it's - you know - a spin off

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Jack's a slut who will have sex with werewolves

    by jemagee

    We all know that Jack's the face of bo we all know that but it should be a minor part of the actual story and not a driving force

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 4:20 p.m. CST

    jemagee

    by BloodiedFox

    4 episodes in (I'm in the UK) and we've had two very brief sex scenes which served to establish a romance between two of the new characters and continue the (pointless, I'll admit) desire Jack has for Gwen (hence the drunken phone call). Yeah, real obsession with sex there...

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 4:23 p.m. CST

    I do agree that the Jack sex scene this season was pointless...

    by superhero

    and had nothing to do with the story. That would have been reason eight for me but seven seemed like an nice number to stop at. Plus, I didn't want people screaming at me because they thought I didn't like it because it was gay sex but just pointless sex that had Jack running off to get shagged for no good reason while the world was in trouble. I also don't remember anyone ever saying that it was the British government that was after Torchwood just that Gwen and hubby were in hiding because Torchwood had "enemies" which could mean anything. Also, while they may not be heroes in the eyes of "British Public servants" they did stop the aliens from messing with our kids so that's gotta be good for something, right? Right?

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 4:26 p.m. CST

    And how does RTD focus more on sex than story???

    by superhero

    I don't seem to remember seasons one through four of Doctor Who being a sex filled Porky's style romp. Really, he brings a bit of the naughty into his shows and it sets people off to no end! Stop being prudes! Yeeesh!!!

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 4:48 p.m. CST

    I'm giving up after next week's reveal

    by tangcameo

    It's dragged on too long. Remember the cement in COE? That was done in one episode. If that had been done now in MD it would take 3 episodes (wet cement, dry cement, broken cement). The cyanide on the plane bit felt like filler from '24'. I'm going to give up by the next epi when we find out what the confessional-video-tape promo hinted at (The Families?). ...unless Eve Myles, Lauren Ambrose, Alexa Havins and Arlene Tur have a love scene all together.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 4:54 p.m. CST

    What a horribly inept critique/article

    by Stegman84

    I'd respond further, but honestly, this amaturish hack job just doesn't warrant the effort to be honest. Oh well, carry on...

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 5:14 p.m. CST

    DOCTORTOM...

    by johnnyrandom

    ...as you're obviously a Who fanatic, I shan't lower myself into a war of words with you. Your love of poorly-conceived and written drivel places you beneath me on the ladder of taste, and that's the end of that. My comment regarding Ellison was a pre-emptive strike, related to many, many other Sci-Fi threads I've commented on. See, you say something that a geeky Sci-Fi "fan" disagree with and they drag out the old "Harlan Ellison doesn't like the term Sci-Fi and so you're wrong" chestnut. *rolls eyes* Well fuck that shit. What I decide to abbreviate my favoured genres to is nobody's business but mine, and if some egomaniacal shitbird of an author wants to have a hissyfit about it...he can go right ahead. Precious little asshat. Ask yourself this...if Mr Ellison said it was cool to hurl yourself off a cliff... You'd probably do so, I imagine.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 5:32 p.m. CST

    Dr. Who is thinking Man's Sci Fi

    by blueant

    Not for the random fast food freak incapable of digesting anything besides French Fries and spewing foul language because they think it equates them with 'coolness'. Let the lesser minded 'be safe' with Star Trek or Star Gate Cincinnati or whatever spinoff they are on now :p Harlan Ellison wrote great stuff but I wouldn't jump off a cliff for anyone...much less buy his favorite Beer.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 5:34 p.m. CST

    Back to the funnybooks for you, sir

    by Majereuk

    Seriously, that critique would have got an F- if it had been written by a seven-year-old. I'm not one to bash comics, bit if you've managed to so completely miss the point of so much in the series so far, you might want to go back to media with speech balloons and 'Kapow!' every other page or so. I'm not going to bother arguing about the acting or the music, because that's just subjective opinion, but the plot arguments are laughable. Torchwood are in hiding, any references to them in computer systems are instantly deleted and the Government thinks they're dead and is a bit busy anyway, so sure, they can get bundled onto a plane. Jack's immortality, assuming that it is the root of the miracle, has been diluted over an entire planet's worth of people, which I'm pretty sure would weaken it's effect unless it's some sort of homoepathic immortality. (It isn't) Of course it's not a drug company plot to 'sell more drugs'. The web previews and the tease for next week make that patently obvious. As to what's really going on, I have a glimmer of an idea but I plan to watch the show and find out- and unlike the Losts and X-Files of recent time, we WILL find out.

  • but a half dead CIA operative can find them quite easily? And people aren't as immortal as Jack because the immortality has been diluted? That's quite a jump you made there...not that the show has ever stated anything like that premise. And most comics these days have better writing and creativity than this new Torchwood does.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 6:31 p.m. CST

    THINKING MAN'S SCI-FI?...

    by johnnyrandom

    ...Puh-lease! Spend any more than 10 seconds thinking about Doc Who and it falls apart. Go read some Iain M Banks, Philip K Dick, Jeff Noon or Dan Simmons' Hyperion Cantos. THAT'S thinking man's Sci-fi.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 7:24 p.m. CST

    Subtlety in the acting.....R.T.D. doesn't do subtlety.

    by LORDOFLIGHT

    There's no subtlety in the acting precisly cos of R.T.D. superhero. R.T.D's writing is so shit......good actors like Tennant end up as Dr Who parodies. R.T.D. couldn't do anything subtle if it hit him over the head.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 7:28 p.m. CST

    It's good to see that NERD RAGE coming from superhero!

    by elgato73

    But what's really telling about just what kind of fucked up fanboy cunt you really are is that you start off by saying "Children of Earth was a bit of a letdown because of the shortened season." I stopped reading your fucking article after that one because I knew you were nothing but a fanboy cunt. There was no fucking letdown whatsoever with COE being just five episodes. It was tight, brilliantly paced and pitch fucking perfect in that form. It should have tipped me off even sooner that after saying the first two seasons of Torchwood was "firing on all thrusters" that I knew you were beyond fucking help. The first two seasons of Torchwood are all over the place in terms of quality with maybe 10 of the 26 episodes from both seasons being very good to outstanding. The other 16 are just about mediocre to absolute shit. If you are that much of a fanboy cunt for loving all of the first two seasons of TW then you truly deserve a place on the AICN wall of shame. You fucking cunt.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 7:30 p.m. CST

    "It's like a teenager wrote the thing".....YEP..correct superhero!

    by LORDOFLIGHT

    That sums up just about anything R.T.D.'s ever written. Lightweight, juvenile, camp, badly written, crappy, silly, stupid, over the top.....you name it.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 7:36 p.m. CST

    All that Rose shit.....that was like crap teenage fan fiction too.

    by LORDOFLIGHT

    The type of badly written rubbish you'd see in a childrens soap. Real vomit inducing. What a shame R.T.D. had to get his hand on Dr Who instead of some good writer. Now he's fucked off from Dr Who but still tarnishing it's name with this bollox.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 8:07 p.m. CST

    Never seen the original...

    by v1cious

    But I am really enjoying the miniseries so far. Could do without the gay sex, though.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 9:42 p.m. CST

    @superhero

    by George

    I have no intention trying to defend parts of this season but..... 1. I don't see trying to mix up a format long beaten to death since babylon 5 made it sci-fi mainstream as a problem, they could just do a better job that what they are churning out. 2. Look up the term "ensemble cast" ... you will answer your own question & maybe learn something which is important for your future if you are a "writer" 3. Ok, nothing can defend the overacting. 4. You clearly can't read subtext, even if its layed on a bit thin in area's but the insinuation of what's next is there if you actually listened instead of trying to pick the hate holes. 5. Jane Esperson & RTD have always been shockingly bad writers with what i assume is a "FEW" unintended moments of shine BUT it was well known from previous who, why jack is as he is & is able to regenerate. Why pick a hole in something that has nothing to do with plotholes & more holes in your memory? 6. See point 3 7. Maybe true, maybe not.. To be perfectly honest, i haven't noticed, been busy watching it to give two shits about is music I don't like hating on a site i've enjoyed for years but my god, the decline in quality writers & opinions on this site is amazing. I really think the big guy should hand off the "Running" of the site to someone who would respect it & allow its legacy to continue & clean house from some of these tards dragging it into the toilet. You created a legacy with this site in the early days, it's sad you don't seem interested in protecting its original integrity.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 9:59 p.m. CST

    RIP charles 'bubba' smith

    by George

    May as well say it here seeing as everyone is too busy writing planet of the apes articles & review No 342547452 to give a good man of "movies" an obit.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 10:08 p.m. CST

    Whoever does the music

    by Kauzi Sezso

    It's Murray Gold, the composer for every series of Torchwood and the composer for Doctor Who. I prefer the music from the past series, too, but I wouldn't say Miracle Day's music was crap.

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 10:19 p.m. CST

    I initially had little reaction to that doctor lady.

    by The Transformed Man

    But then she showed her bare ass. Now I'm having trouble concentrating. Huh?

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 10:19 p.m. CST

    And I'm quite enjoying the current series myself.

    by The Transformed Man

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 12:43 a.m. CST

    This show has always been utter shite.

    by blackflowerX

    As has R.T.D (A total cunt of a man).<BR><BR> Now its just shite with a lot of American money.

  • Its just dead .

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 4:12 a.m. CST

    If RTD is so utterly talentless...

    by BloodiedFox

    How did he resurrect Dr Who and make it so successful? Surely if he's such a hack, it should have died on the vine, right? And yet...

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 7:46 a.m. CST

    Starz employs people to plant positive reviews, forum threads, etc

    by Wookie_Weed

    I've dealt with them on a couple of forums. I'm not surprised they're here. Torchwood: Miracle Day is pretentious shit. I watched the first two episodes, and I can't watch anymore. It's almost on par with Spartacus-bad -- but at least with Spartacus, it's so bad you can enjoy it every now and then. Torchwood:MD however -- it is SHIT. And the worst kind of pretentious.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 8:13 a.m. CST

    in my opinion series 3 was worse so far, but time will tell...

    by brechtsky

    series 3 was awful... great first episode, dragged to death in every ep afterward... should have been a two parter at best ... this series at least merits a 3 parter, so id say its premise is better... oh and their inane desire to kill off the entire cast is part of why superhero thinks the new season sucks, when in reality its been the shows MO for years, and should be blamed upon earlier series, not this one, imo... but in my opinion this season is better than the last, at least so far... i hate many of the things superhero does, but feel the third season was worse for lots of reasons... but only time will tell on my final opinion.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 8:20 a.m. CST

    oh and i kinda liked the plane episode

    by brechtsky

    although i cant remember what, but there was something so preposterous in the beginning of it that i remember laughing quite hard at it.... but in the end i remember thinking it was a turnaround from the last....

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 8:24 a.m. CST

    one more thing i dislike about s03 and i like about 4....

    by brechtsky

    ... the premise of s03 felt like it came fro the dr who reject pile... because it was bad and like 100 other who eps.... this season feels more torchwood-y, in my opinion....

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:28 a.m. CST

    12 minutes into episode 5

    by Jakester

    and I'm liking it more than any of the previous 4. Esther admits she's useless!

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:29 a.m. CST

    BLOODY FOX...

    by johnnyrandom

    ...to answer your question "How did he resurrect Dr Who and make it so successful?" Simple. He wrote some simplistic nonsensical trash squarely aimed at the sort of brick-brained couch potato who usually watches Eastenders and so would consider his cod Sci-Fi stylings crazy and out there. Bingo! Instant ratings!

  • I loved Children of Earth and I like Miracle Day. I disagree with all of your posts, except for the music one. There are some very odd musical choices here. I will admit that. It makes me long for how strong I felt the Children of Earth score was. Otherwise, get over it. Campy, cheesy season one Torchwood is gone, and good riddance to it.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:45 a.m. CST

    I'm also surprised about point 6

    by clupula

    As was said above, you saw Children of Earth, right? You know what the British government did to Torchwood, right? In fact, you also saw the end of Children of Earth, where the British government was in deep shit with the rest of the world for their actions with the 456. And that's just the stuff that got out. The British government would be bending over backwards to accommodate America and the rest of the international community if not only had the prime minister gone crazy (at least that's what the world believes) and killed a U.S. president, but after the 456 incident, we could pretty much get whatever we wanted from them.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 10:38 a.m. CST

    You know what this show needs? A cameo from Doctor Who!

    by MrMysteryGuest

  • The first episode I disliked, but it was a scene setter, and every subsequent episode has ramped up the quality, and by the sounds of what happens in ep 5 (UK pace here guys) it's only going to get better. Seriously, some of the shite I have watched, or tried to watch from the US networks which fanboys wank over make this look like a masterpiece in writing, performing and storyline. Also, when you say Children of Earth was not a good quality mini-series you must have been distracted by something because those five episodes were more emotive, well written and performed than a lot of television over the last 5 years. Torchwood is about the ensemble, its never just been about Jack and Gwen, something you'd realise if you have as you said, been watching it from inception. god I bet you wank over Firefly don't you? That was a piss poor sci fi show, that fanboys hump over because it was an underdog in the listings. Gah. Reading this has put me in a shite mood now, cheers.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 1:17 p.m. CST

    no pullmans story in this does not make

    by emeraldboy

    sense... BBC america executive 1 to the torchwood team in hollywood... " Hey folks, listen we like your show, touchwood" Davies "thats torchwood" BBCA exec 1 sure like i said touchwood BBCA exec 1 continues.... really like the show guys just one question, this cardiff, place, where is that, is that like, in the uk? Davies Yes and No Exec How do you mean yes and no Davies It is in the uk and but its independent of the uk exec looks blank at davies davies then tries to give the exec a british history lesson. exec then falls asleep. BBC american exec We have a huge problem. there is one scene involving jack hackness Davies Harkness exec Hackness exec continues there is one scene where jack is standing awfully close to another man that man is standing in front of jack in a very revealing manner. the exec continues despite the steam coming out of RTD's ears at the mention of toning down that scene. RTD got his way as he always does. regarding that scene. and because the bbc america exec was bored out of his brains by davies lecture. cardiff was represented as being part of the uk. wales is totally independent of the uk.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 2:41 p.m. CST

    wales isnt totally independent from the UK....

    by divebomb

    it is independent from England. I am Welsh.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 3:07 p.m. CST

    I liked Children of Earth best....

    by Jarek

    Don't understand the hatred on that one. It's a dark, extremely well-written story. Plus it has a series stealing performance from Peter Capaldi (In The Loop/The Thick of It).

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 3:42 p.m. CST

    Re : wookie_weed

    by Real Deal

    Oh please! Plants from starz? LOL! As much as I like AICN why would they bother with this website and the chaos that ensues when you read the talkback haters? When are you fan boys going to stop being parinoid?

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 3:45 p.m. CST

    By The Way....

    by Real Deal

    I still like Torchwood! I'm currently enjoying MD. At first I kind of wondered because it did have a different feel from the british version but now that I'm used to it I really like it. I just hope they don't shy away too much from the Capt. Jack mythos for new viewers as a guy who can't die ( normally ) and was a time traveler just makes the character more interesting.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 4:40 p.m. CST

    mrmysteryguest...

    by Jarek

    You mean like on the awesome FUTURAMA episode this week?

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 6:49 p.m. CST

    Johnnyrandom, yes I'd agree that it's thinking man's SF

    by DoctorTom

    I grant you that you quoted very good sf novel references, but there has also been good writing in Doctor Who. Most people wouldn't denigrate Douglas Adams or Neil Gaiman, but it seems you're willing to. <br> As to my 'love of poorly-conceived and written drivel places you beneath me on the ladder of taste, and that's the end of that.', no, that's not that. Such 'poorly-conceived and written drivel' doesn't win Hugo Awards for the best dramatic SF presentation 3 years in a row (shows written by the current showrunner, who for last season turned in a season finale that's as legitimate an sf story as anything you cited). It's not also pulling in BAFTA awards and other awards. So, that brings into question your 'ladder of taste' that also manages to exclude Harlan Ellison. when drug in for no good reason whatsoever. I'm guessing it's probably actually not taste so much as a sense of elitism that something that gets liked by a vast number of people can't possibly be good. But, I could be wrong. I just know that you're not right with the absolutist stand that you're taking. <br> So, I guess you win with that first post, obviously posted to try to rile up the natives. I suspect you don't even watch any of these shows, but just want to pretend that you're too good for them. Go watch the Doctor Who episodes Blink, Midnight and The Doctor's Wife, then come back and try to claim that it's poorly written drivel. You'll just expose yourself as a fraud.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 7:52 p.m. CST

    Disagree on all but the music...

    by u.k. star

    How you can think Children of Earth was anything but some of the best Sci-fi on Tv in the past 20 years is beyond me. They've never said that Jack and the rest of humanity switched at all, that was obvious from the first half of episode one, merely that his unique condition has led to a further unique condition (mortality) and that perhaps his immortality was used to effect the change. It isn't benevolent so why help people heal? The powers that be tried to assassinate Torchwood in the previous series so there's no reason to assume there's any reason they would refuse to allow them to be taken; and like or not my American friend, the rest of the world believes America has done an awful lot of "whatever the hell it want" since 9/11 so they may simply have chosen to illustrate that point by having them leave the way the did. Lazy writing would have been for Gwen to just up and leave her baby and husband with little fuss. Why on Earth are you assuming that the Pharisaical company are behind the miracle? The characters in the show aren't and with the show only half way done the only assumption we can make is that it it definitely isn't them and / or it isn't to sell more drugs; that is almost definitely just a fringe benefit. We will have no idea what the real issue is. Also if health care is still a problem, and last time I looked it was, what's wrong with highlighting that?

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 8:10 p.m. CST

    By the way

    by Jakester

    the cameo by Espenson's buddy Cheeks was pretty distracting.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 9:29 p.m. CST

    The new TORCHWOOD is garbage??? I'm shocked! :O

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    Nah... just kidding. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN GARBAGE! >:O The fact that "superhero" is only NOW just realizing this obvious fact and that he thinks that RTD's writing/handling of this show is to be lauded merely shows that "superhero" has extremely poor taste and standards when it comes to his sci-fi entertainment. Something to keep in mind when reading his future reviews.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 11:31 p.m. CST

    AWARDS...

    by johnnyrandom

    ...don't mean shit. Industry back-slapping. Gaiman I used to respect, but let's face it, he's in the machine now. I doubt he'll ever wow anyone again. So yeah. I stand by what I said.

  • Aug. 6, 2011, 11:35 p.m. CST

    OH, AND...

    by johnnyrandom

    ...I watched (along with the others) The Doctor's Wife. Fancied The Tardis. And wished she coulda been pary of a better-written TV show. See...I believe the only valid opinions are ones put forth by those with experience of the subject matter. Kanda destroys your theory, huh?

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 4:57 a.m. CST

    This comes across as a whiney fanboy review.

    by Legolars

    "Torchwood was a fun alien of the week show and now it's an Americanized piece of shit." Torchwood never was a classic indeed. The writing was never subtle, the acting has always been OTT, the show always had this campy B movie vibe. So how exactly is season 4 different in any way? Answer: It isn't. It's the same goddamn show. I thought Children of Earth was a huge improvement over the slightly embarassing seasons 1 and 2. I'm glad the writers and producers kept the elements of CoE that worked (serialized story, one big threat) on Miracle Day. CoE gradually built up to a fantastic, emotional, gutwrenching finale. I expect Miracle Day to do the same.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 8:37 a.m. CST

    No, it doesn/t destroy my theory at all

    by DoctorTom

    My theory was that you put up your first post to try to deliberately stir up trouble, and that with your bringing in Harlan Ellison out of the blue like you did you have a chip on your shoulder about him bigger than Harlan himself. <br> And your statement 'but let's face it, he's in the machine now. I doubt he'll ever wow anyone again.' just proves my statement in the earlier post that you're actually just being an elitist who feels he has to hate anything that might actually be popular.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 9:12 a.m. CST

    Hugo Awards, johnnyrandom, aren't 'industry back-slapping'

    by DoctorTom

    They're voted by the fans, not some 'industry professionals' congratulating themselves. The same fans who enjoy reading Iain Banks (with or without the M), Philip K Dick, Dan Simmons and the like that you mention. The same fans who like to have 'thinking man's sf'. They voted Doctor Who over Battlestar Galactica, and over the usual mindless drivel like Stargate: Insert Extra Series Name After the Colon. So, a targeted group interested in professing what you want voted Doctor Who the best, which should be taken as a sign that it isn't 'poorly-conceived and written drivel' as you claim. <br> But, I suppose if you want to maintain an elitist attitude, you're not allowed to let yourself enjoy something that even other elitists like. The band has gotten too popular, so you feel you have to hate them now.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 9:29 a.m. CST

    And we've reached the halfway point in the US on the show

    by DoctorTom

    It definitely has the feel of a 6 part show that they've been forced to squeeze into 10 parts. <br> <br> SPOILERS FOR EP 5 <br> <br> There's still a question about how self-aware living ash would be. Supposedly, by what they set up, even the ash wouldn't be dead.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 2:45 p.m. CST

    ALL AWARDS...

    by johnnyrandom

    ...are industry back-slapping, naive one.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 2:48 p.m. CST

    AND I'M NO ELITIST...

    by johnnyrandom

    ...I just know good writing and challenging ideas. Both of which belong in good Sci-Fi. And are absent from Doc Who AND Torchwood.

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Naaah, you're just trolling

    by DoctorTom

    That's all you're doing here. Just in to call things crap and poorly written, without wanting to advance the dialog at all. <br> But, in the spirit of giving you a fair chance, in the sense of non-Elitism, what TV shows (not movies) do you find having challenging ideas and are well written? (You do realize that if you say Stargate, you immediately get disqualified ;) )

  • Aug. 7, 2011, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Awards aren't industry backslapping at all

    by DoctorTom

    They're ways of being able to hang something on some things (music, movies, tv, whatever) to be able to sell more copies. They just happen to try to do it through popularity, or in the case of some awards, through trying to find the things of quality worth nominating (this doesn't apply to any music awards, needless to say)

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 3:27 a.m. CST

    It's pish....

    by dj_bollocks

    Boring, dull, mundane, lacking in tension or atmosphere, clunky dialogue... I was bored for most of episode 5 and I genuinely don't care about most of the characters - I mean the crazy doctor admin guy ??? Beyond bad... When/if the the female Doctor got incinerated there was no tension at all - could have been a really powerful scene, ended up going "Meh whatever..." There appears to be very little supernatural in this series, which was half the appeal of Torchwood, and why they existed in the first place... Just so ambivalent about it - I'll reluctantly give it one more episode, after that, I could care less...

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 5:58 a.m. CST

    GOOD SHOWS, HUH...

    by johnnyrandom

    ...not a big TV watcher, having a life and all, but if I gotta think of some then Sci-Fi-wise, gotta praise Lexx, Farscape and new Galactica first two for originality and latter for drama and overall execution. A lot of TV Sci-Fi seems to end up straying into cheese territory though (and not in a good way a la Lexx). Non-Sci-Fi-wise, obviously Twin Peaks, The Wire, Kingdom (original), Carnivale, Deadwood, Breaking Bad, The Killing (original), The Shield, The Sopranos, Oz...UK shows like Life On Mars and Ashes To Ashes prove that the US doesn't have a total monopoly on good quality drama. Any one of those shows BURIES Doc Who or Torchwood in terms of scope, ideas, scripting, atmosphere and execution. And no, I'm not trolling. I'm merely pointing out that Russell T Davies is a hack and his creations have all the potential under the sun, but nobody behind the scenes with the vision to reach said potential.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 10:48 a.m. CST

    Johnnyrandom, get with the times

    by DoctorTom

    I'm merely pointing out that Russell T Davies is a hack and his creations have all the potential under the sun, but nobody behind the scenes with the vision to reach said potential.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 11:14 a.m. CST

    MY GRASP ON "THE TIMES"...

    by johnnyrandom

    ...is just fine, son.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 1:31 p.m. CST

    Hmmm,it cut off most of my post there

    by DoctorTom

    I'm merely pointing out that Russell T Davies is a hack and his creations have all the potential under the sun, but nobody behind the scenes with the vision to reach said potential.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 1:40 p.m. CST

    grrrr, it's cut it off again! 3rd try

    by DoctorTom

    There's something about even single quotation marks that was mssing it up. Oh well, time to try again. <br> Anyway, it seems like you do not realize that Russell Davies has been off of Who for 2 years now, with Steven Moffat running the show now. This is the person who actually won the Hugo Awards for his episodes (based on the writing). He has changed the tone and included more sf concepts like actually playing around with the implications of time travel rather than actually just using it as a way of getting from timespace point A to timespace point B. <br> And, I do have to call you out on that statement about Davies in that you were not bothering to mention Davies specifically until then. You started out by bashing Doctor Who as well as Torchwood, and without bothering to specify you damned almost 50 years of the show with your criticism, including the last season and a half (and counting) since Davies left. So, let us know if you are backpedaling from your statements about Who as a whole to limit it to the time Davies was on it. <br> As for Lexx, the middle of each season was like a horrific train wreck in slow motion that you could just not stop watching, but would find something nifty to pull out for the season finale that might make it worthwhile. Ironically that is almost what we had with the Russell Davies Doctor Who seasons, except that Davies knew to employ good writers who sometimes put out excellent (but almost always good) episodes to prop up the middle part of the season.

  • Aug. 8, 2011, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Finally! It went through!

    by DoctorTom

    I just had to avoid any type of single or double quotation mark.

  • The last two episodes have finally, FINALLY begun to feel like "Torchwood" again. By startling lack of coincidence, they've also focused much more heavily on Jack and Gwen. I hope you've stuck with it, because the last two eps have been totally worth it. PAD