Cool News
Paul Verhoeven and JESUS CHRIST
Ya know... I love Paul Verhoeven. Nobody makes me smile like this Dutchman. As much as I wanted to see Paul Verhoeven's look at the life of HITLER.... I have to say that I'm far far more interested and compelled to see PAUL VERHOEVEN'S JESUS CHRIST. Try to shut your eyes and see this film. Come on. Try it. Ahhhhhh... see? Wasn't that fun?
Hello Harry,
I think I might have a scoop. Unlike most of your spies
I don't live in a place where important film news is regularly unveiled.
The Netherlands is not a place to get great scoops, although the low
countries have won three best foreign film oscars in the past fourteen
years. My news therefor doesn't involve any film that is shot on Dutch
soil, though I'll inform you if a potential Oscar winner is coming your
way again. No, my scoop deals with one of Holland's most successful
directors, and I don't mean Jan de Bont.
Paul Verhoeven was in The Netherlands for a few days,
and he spoke on a seminar organized by the Faculty of Theology of the
University of Utrecht. The theme of this seminar is "Jezus Christus,
niet te filmen," which loosely translates as: Jesus Christ, Impossible
to Film. ('Niet te filmen' also means Unbelievable.) Verhoeven revealed
that his next project, after wrapping up The Hollow Man, will be the
real life story of Jesus Christ. Paul Verhoeven clarified that a bit
later on. He is not going to base the script directly on the scriptures
of the new testament, but on a historical reconstruction of the life of
Jesus Christ. From what I gathered from his speech and the interview
that followed is that this not going to be a version that sets to please
the Bible belt. He mentioned things like Jesus fornicating, presumably
with Mary Magdalene, and Jesus doing other things not so divine. If the
things Verhoeven told will be true, this film will be more controversial
than Martin Scorsese's "The Last Temptation of Christ."
Verhoeven also said that the script is still being
written as we speak and will probably not be finished 'till another six
months have passed. He also still has to procure the sixty million
dollars necessary to shoot the film. So don't expect the shooting to
begin until the end of the year and it to reach the cinema not until
late in 2002, if it gets made at all...
This is a movie that is bound to be controversial, if not sacrilegious,
so I'm in serious doubt if Verhoeven will be able to find the financial
backing for this project. Verhoeven has his reputation against him on
that part. Some of you might remember that Verhoeven has been trying to
make a movie version of the crusades for ages, but never has been able
to get the project financed, even with the name of Arnold Schwarzenegger
attached to it. (Hey, here's a thought. Are Sly and Arnie still looking
for a project to collaborate on? Maybe Arnie as Richard the Lionheart
and Sly as Saladin, with Verhoeven at the helm... Nah, they never would
go for it.)
Well, as for Jesus, I guess it's just wait and see.
The Spying Dutchman.
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And not just because I live right in the middle of Holland...Gotta love Paul V. Hoorah for us.
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I must say I don't really see how Verhoeven can make a movie like this. But I guess the big question is who will play the good boy from Nazareth? IMHO Scorsese made an absolutely fabulous movie with Last Temptation, and lets face it..Verhoeven is no Scorsese! I can't help it. I just have a bad feeling about this project.
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Of course, Verhoeven will have Jesus and Mary M. getting together in the biblical sense (I know, bad pun). What a great way to get some free advertising without having to resort to actually doing some decent writing or directing? Let's whip up those right wing Christian groups who will predictably get offended enough to bombard the print media, television and the internet with all sorts of free publicity before the movie would even be released. At least, Dogma raised some real issues, maintaining it's sense of spirituality, in addition to it's wit. Verhoeven is just doing this as a stunt.
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I have never seen a Paul Verhoeven film that I liked. And his film "Turks Fruit" (Turkish Delight) has been named "best dutch film ever" or something...and even that one doesn't stand up to international standards. And the bad thing is that I can't think of any real alternatives that deserve that title so the situation here in The Netherlands must be pretty fuck up...
Paul's american films are not much better though. Starship Troopers was funny (mostly for the wrong reasons) and Basic Instinct is his best known and maybe his best. I can't say I'm happy about the quality of dutch filmmakers in general. Jan de Bont is very good...as a cameraman. I still love his work on Die Hard very much. Speed was pretty good, his best effort as a director/cameraman. But I'm getting of the subject. What I don't understand is the preoccupation of dutch directors with sex and not regular sex ofcourse...It's always about incest, rape, 'drugsex' etc. The worst example is Ian Kerkhof. A dutch writer/director with (I guess) at least one English parent. He is a real pervert and he probably enjoys being thought of as such. Asshole. His worst film may be "Alles naar de klote" (Let's get fucked up...would be the translation). It explores new dephts of crappy filmmaking. I don't want to waste more words on him. There are some really talented people working for tv though, so it isn't all bad. Let's hope they make more stuff (always difficult because it's damn near impossible to get the money for it...). Meanwhile, thank God for import... -
Paul "After Total Recall I had a frontal lobotomy to complete the Hollywood transformation" Verhoeven doing a Jesus Christ flick? When Scorsese did it he was actively trying to explore faith, redemption, our relationship to God and Jesus's God dueling with the humanity in him. LTC was a beautiful film and I cherish it very much. This will be utter dog shit. I agree with the other poster, this is just Verhoeven trying to fuckthings up. He will have absolutely nothing enlightening to say about the subject. I guess Verhoeven's Jesus will have him sitting in an interrogation room crossing and uncrossing his legs in front of Pontius Pilate, or the apostles doing a striptease in Vegas. I'd beat the man to death if he was around. What a fucking asshole. I'm not intensely religious, but to explore your faith is a noble effort, and not meant for fucking around. Stick to bad mysteries and corny, mildly effective sci-fi flicks. You're way out of your league, fuckhead.
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Ah damn, I don't mind typos and other spelling errors in any posts except my own. Damn, not being able to write 'fucked up' (twice) is pretty...well you know.
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I'm sitting in a computer room at college, i've just imagined what a scene of "Paul Verhoevans Jesus Christ" would be like, and I'm giggling and getting funny looks. Jesus, he HAS to get Caspar Van Dien to play JC. That's what I keep on imagining...everybody looking period, but then Caspar van Dien, straight off the set of Starship Troopers, clean shaven, holding a big mutha nuke launcher, giving the sermon on the mount. Meanwhile, Ceaser puts out public information announcements about encouraging kids to stomp on JC...oh my god, how come nobodies ever thought of this before....it's going to better than Life of Brian....I am there!
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The man who brought us Robocop, Total Recall and Starship Troopers is going to do a movie about the life of Jesus Christ? Sorry I can't see it. Well maybe he's trying to expand his artistic talents to some other area but his reputation ain't going to help. The man is a very talented director but this film will be a tough sale.
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I believe Verhoeven was speaking about a recent scroll found in the mountains outside of Jerusalem when he talked about using historical texts. In this scroll Jesus is said to be 7'0" tall with a robotic exoskeleton and numerous cybernetic enhancements. He battles giant bugs and on the weekends frequents a strip club. The text repeats the cryptic line "I'll buy that for a dollar!" Historians are unclear as to what this means.
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But it's definitely not a publicity stunt either.
Verhoeven comes from a very religious background and has always been very much interested in the subject of religion(watch his film "The Fourth Man" for example). Paul Verhoeven graduated from the University of Leiden with a degree in math and physics. And the combination of his interest in religion and his interest in science brought him to a seminar about the 'real life of Christ'. This was almost 10 years ago, the people involved with this seminar have worked for years on the reconstruction of Christ's life and Verhoeven was always attending the gatherings of this group.
This means that Verhoeven has been working on this project for almost 10 years, I think this is serious and I don't think his main objective is to show Jesus having sex, for that all he had to do is call mr. Eszterhas.
If Verhoeven got the chance to make it, we're in for something no one has seen before. But that's not going to happen, as Hollywood thinks it's safer to let him do Sci-Fi. Because who can he insult with that. It's a shame. -
hey, I kinda like Verhoeven but if he does a movie on Jesus Christ, all hell will break loose. Verhoeven will become another Salman Rushdie and will have to run for his live. Personaly, I think this movie will suck anyway. He should do another bigass actionflick. Cheers from the lying Dutchman.
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Jan 22, 2000 11:55:35 AM CST
PS. Blacksun's an arsehole who sounds mighty Dutch to me.
by eddie munster
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Jan 22, 2000 12:16:24 PM CST
"Hey Murphy! What's the charge?" "He's a Christ killer."
by darth siskel
I hope Ed-209 is in this.
Verhoeven just rules. Even Showgirls was good.
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Is Verhoeven INSANE? I mean hey, I liked "Starship Troopers" as much as the next guy (depending on who the next guy is), but does making a film about fresh-faced young soldiers mowing down giant killer bugs with shoulder-mounted nukes prepare one for CHRIST: THE MOTION PICTURE? I mean really, Paul Verhoeven is not a good choice to make the next ground-breaking religious epic about the life of Christ. Sam Raimi is.
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And I really don't think I need to mention the best choice to PLAY Christ. C'mon folks, I know we're all thinking the same thing.
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I liked the Jesus Version from Scorsese but a Jesus Version or Vision from Verhoeven is supergreat.This is best News of Filmmaking I have heard of because Verhoeven isn't afraid of anything .You don't know exactly what to expect.I hope this one gets made.On the commentary Track of the ROBOCOP DVD from Criterion the Jesus Project was mentioned and I think Verhoeven is going to handle this Movie differently than his other Projects.Although I must admit that Crusade would make me even more excited.This movie would be the SUPERMOVIEORGASM .UNTOPABLE don't you think???
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This is a quote from the book "Verhoeven On Verhoeven." This is Paul Verhoeven speaking about his film ROBOCOP:
"It's pure resurrection. For me, RoboCop is a Christian fairytale. First, Murphy is gunned down in the most horrific way: that is the Crucifixion. And it has to be so violent, because the audience has to remember him. Before that, he has not done anything in the film. He comes to the police station to put on his uniform, then he goes after the villains with his partner, and bang! he is dead. That shooting is the only thing we know about him -- I did that deliberately. Next, the film makes a steep descent into the finite, after which he experiences his Resurrection, in a modern way. In the scene at the old steelworks, at the climax of the fight between Clarence and RoboCop, you see those almost Trojan walls. There is also a gigantic puddle. If you look closely, you will see that RoboCop does not go through it but over it. I did not want to do it too obviously -- otherwise it would look silly -- but I had a grid put under the water so that he would not sink but rather glide across the water, as it were. RoboCop is a Jesus figure -- an American Jesus. Entirely in tune with current ideas here, he says, 'I don't arrest you anymore.' He has done with Clarence, the time of turning the other cheek is over. Americans want to be humane, but if they think it takes too long, Christian morality is pushed aside for the moment and they go for their weapons -- just like RoboCop." -
Jan 22, 2000 1:05:29 PM CST
THE SECRET TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST: sex..pussy..drugs!!!
by malchizedik
On New Years Eve someone posted a story about Jesus CHRIST Coming to the Alamo Drafthouse where Harry et al. were having circle jerk and gastro-fetish?. So because of all the banning JESUS JOINED IN and BEAT, RATED, and MURDERED a 9 year old AFRICAN AMERICAN BOY!!!!!!!!!!! Then another poster who was ifuriated Emailed Father Geek to get the author banned...i believe it was a girl who wrote the post...DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THIS ON NEW YEARS EVE??????????????????????????
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Death and resurrection are story elements in works of myth since time out of mind. In order for a myth to be working vitally in contemtpary times it is important that the story engage the members of the society and be in harmony with current scientific understandings. In this context, THE IRON GIANT can be viewed as an equivalent archetype of the Christ figure for the modern world. Because of His already demonstrated ability be not only be reborn
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Jan 22, 2000 2:23:51 PM CST
fine, if the rest of you fuckolas won't get excited for this, I
by l'auteur
PAUL VERHOEVEN ROCKS! I know, Basic Instinct and Showgirls are lame, but his three sci-fi films are all among the best sci-fi/satire ever made. STARSHIP TROOPERS makes my best of the 90s list, easy. Speaking of which, here it is: 1)FIGHT CLUB 2)PULP FICTION 3)AMERICAN BEAUTY 4)SCHINDLERS LIST 5)STARSHIP TROOPERS... we dont need all ten. Anywho, since the only bad Verhoeven films ive seen are the sex-life-in-los-angelos-melodramas, I have to say that i see no reason why this film would be bad. In his three scifi/satire films, there are vast amounts of intelligence hiding beneath cheesy acting and big dumb FX. Maybe JESUS CHRIST will be the film that forces people to realize that Verhoeven has more going on that Arnold and Digital Domain (or whatever the hell FX house made those bugs). Or maybe it will be the most spectacularly bad movie since SHOWGIRLS. Either way, im as gitty as a schoolgirl. THE HOLLOW MAN is my #1 to-see movie for 2000.
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How can it not? After Dogma, the studios have all the info they need to pull the publicity strings on both sides of the religion coin. The athiests, questioners and more liberal Christ followers will go see it because the bible thumpers and religious scaredy cats (and those who would truly be offended by it) would tell them not to.***Is this a good idea? If it were anyone else, I would say yes, but I have images of a terrible piecer. Total Recall and Robocop were decent action/sci-fi flicks, Showgirls gave me some laughs, but Starship Troopers...while laughable...it was one of those movies where I would pause after 15 minutes and go do something constructive or watch something else, then turn it back on, watch for 15 minutes or so...then the cycle would start all over again. I can just see it: Denise Richards IS the Virgin Mary.
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Jan 22, 2000 3:13:30 PM CST
Uh, Malchizedik, most of us had better things to do on New Year'
by niiiice
Than to log on to AICN and be enthralled by wildly unoriginal and yet startingly unshocking posts written for no obvious reason other than to piss someone off. Come on, we're all geeks, but Y2K eve??????
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I'm just so sick and tired of people bashing Christianity and getting away with it in the name of art. I know, some people really do think it's art to write a "liberal" interpretation of the life of Christ. What the hell do you think would happen if someone tried that with Mohammed? Religious leader by day, street pimp by night.... dammit, it just really gets me hot under the collar when films like this get made... doesn't anybody else feel the same way?
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I don't believe Jesus Christ was a white guy. I will never believe he was a white guy. He came from the middle-east about 2000 years ago. So getting pretty-boy white guys to play him is wrong, in my opinion. And, before you ask, I'm a white guy.
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Jan 22, 2000 4:20:56 PM CST
Ol' Dirty Bastard must play Jesus in this Verhoeven masterpiece
by nagual
Why do you think he renamed himself "Big Baby Jesus"? Jesus was black, you know! Just picture it, him doing the nasty with Mary M. screaming "Oooh Baby I like it raaaawwww..."
In a debate with Pontius Pilate, when asked why his life should be spared, he can scream "Because Wu-Tang is for the CHILDREN! It's for the CHILDREN!"
And he can turn all the water in the lake of Galilee to wine and then drink the whole damn thing, stagger around drunkenly and insult all the apostles calling them "bitch-ass niggas."
It will be Oscar time for sure. -
fuck, I wish they would do a movie on David and Jonathan, everybody KNOWS they were gay sex lovers, THAT would be a great film! Think about the drama and issues that can be brought up? Or, how about a movie on Moses and his 15 wives? Ha, they can call it GangBang 1500BC! What if you offend Jews? Who the fuck cares about jews? They are all a bunch of zealots anyway! Hell they cut the top of the COCK off on their newborn babies, and they won't eat pork, the other white meat. How barbistic is that?
Better yet, let's do a cool movie on Mohamad, or John Smith. Or Buddah! -
What does it mean to "bash Christianity"? Does it mean to attempt to find truth? CorBlimey is right: Jesus probably wasnt the blue-eyed blonde-haired All-American that the Bible Belt wants us to believe. Maybe he was black, if not very dark-skinned. And you know what else? He was a man. A real man. As Alan Rickman pointed out in DOGMA, theres a big chunk of Jesus' life missing from the Bible (although I'm embarrassed to quote a movie for that fact--"If there wasnt a movie made about it, you people know nothing about it!"). What was he doing throughout that whole time? Maybe, as many men do, he was engaging in some sin. I admit, I dont know much about the New Testement, so I'd love some expertice here, but I do think that it is not "bashing Chritianity" to tell the truth or hypothesize about the truth. Odds are, the Religious Right does most of the lying, trying to tell us that Jesus looked like those pictures that we see and that nothing important happened in that strangely omitted section of his life. If they are lying, and I wouldnt doubt it for a second, they would be committing the worst Christian bashing of all.
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"Uh, Malchizedik, most of us had better things to do on New Year's Eve" What did you have better to do? That's some of the lamest psuedo-geek posturing ive seen in some while. Let me just say- I do have a girlfriend and she was at my house, and since i did not rape myself with intoxicants like all the other needy, self-loathing elitists I managed to bring in the next day in just the right fashion. I think i can say with confidence that i speak for all of Talk Back when I say "Thanks for showing us the real you, Niiiice" we needed the laugh.
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since it's obvious he isn't familiar with the latest "historical Jesus" thinking. This holds that Jesus was, if anything, probably a widower; that he was not involved with Mary Magdalene, who wasn't a whore or possessed to begin with; and that he was likely executed because of political radicalism, not sins of the flesh. Verhoeven obviously wants to stir up trouble. If there are explicit sex scenes of Jesus (or anyone else who isn't an extra-Biblical character), the film will not be releasable in the United States, guaranteed. And I cannot imagine any studio being stupid enough to bankroll it under those circumstances.....
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...if he's ignoring the Biblical accounts. I became a Christian in college a few years ago. I also majored in historical studies, so the two kind of "grew together". The vast majority, if not all even, of the "historical research" going on today (Jesus Seminar, et al.) is based on EXTREME conjecture, not actual historical investigation.
You want a REALLY concise, historian's perspective of Jesus? Read the Book of Luke, then read its sequel, the Book of Acts. Luke, a Greek physician, probably ranks as one of the greatest historians ever for his citing the period of the Roman emperors, his knowledge of the geography of Palestine and the Mediterranean, etc. He also had access, per his travels with Paul, to eyewitnesses to and participants of Jesus' ministry. Believe me, I've TRIED to tear apart the Gospels, tried to disprove them... and it's just impossible! Luke especially: the guy is just too bloody good!
Here's another one if you're interested in the REAL history of the times of Christ, although he lived WAY after Jesus ascended: Polycarp. Find out about him, who he hung out with, and all the records of his death, and see if that doesn't bring a LOT of weight to the table.
If Verhoeven wants to make a film about Jesus, fine. He's a filmmaker, it's his right to do so if he wants. But he's gonna SERIOUSLY be shooting himself in the foot so far as historical credibility goes if he abides strictly by modern "interpretation"... most of which has no real scholarly basis at all. -
For what it's worth, Jesus was Jewish. As for this movie thing, I have to say that I'm just bored with all the bullshit that goes on around religion. That means the mindless bible-thumpers on Sunday morning TV who seem to have confused the teachings of Jesus with the teachings of Hitler and Hollywood types who think it's their sworn duty to piss on the dearly-held beliefs of millions of people. Maybe somebody should try to do a movie that simply attempts to explore why this stuff has had such a huge impact on the world...that I might be interested in seeing. If it's a piece of propaganda produced by some holy-rollers or a nanny-nanny-boo-boo "we're superior to you inbred fools" like this Verhoeven thing appears to be, count me out. It's nothing but a bunch of infants slinging their own doo-doo at each other.
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Oh man.. I think this is a bad idea. I'm dutch myself, but honestly, Verhoeven 's just not good enough to pull this off and get away with it alive.. yeah sure IF he pulls this off and makes a good (let it be funny) movie he'll be a hero. If he doesn't I don't think he'll ever make a movie again. Then he'll be forever known as 'the guy who fucked up the Jesus movie' which sounds WORSE then 'the guy who made Showgirls'.. Man, if this guy just went on being a hell of a cameraman, I'd love him.
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I gotta agree with Nagual on the casting of ODB as Christ. Good work, Nagual. Anyway, I don't believe for a second that this project will get off the ground, but the whole idea is hilarious. I just want to see the trailer that says, "FROM THE ACCLAIMED DIRECTOR OF ROBOCOP AND SHOWGIRLS... JESUS CHRIST." Or what about a teaser poster with just a cross icon and underneath, "June 23." This Jesus thing is a very popular property I think this could really be an event picture.
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Jan 22, 2000 6:53:46 PM CST
so I guess we're now going to see sacred footage of Jesus gettin
by amoir
No one will give him money to do this. Talk about his background as much as you like but a studio would never risk money on this - they'd lose their audience in seconds flat.
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Jan 22, 2000 6:54:55 PM CST
Let's just hope they don't resurrect John Wayne to play the cent
by stephen dedalus
Anyone remember THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD? "Well that thar's the greatest man who ever lived, pardner!" That was probably the most humiliating moment in the history of religious cinema.
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As virtually everybody on talkback has predicted, this is going to piss off a MASSIVE number of people. Being a christian and a film fan, i'm cursed with seeing both sides of the issue. Yes, there needs to be artistic license in filmmaking, and many of the religious right do pounce on movies simply because they feel that they are the movie police. But for lots of other church going folks, seeing their omniscient perfect deity as a fornicating sinful man on film is sort of on par with seeing a director make a film of your mother's life portraying her as a whore who licks crack off the streets... i know it seems like a pretty extreme analogy, but to be perfectly truthful, that's exactly what it seems like.
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Ben Affleck or my cock?
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Arnold Schwarzenegger as Jesus Christ in a Paul Verhoven film. I can just picture the climax as a buffed looking Jesus pulls the nails out of the cross, hops off, grabs a romans sword. Slashes his way through the roman leigons to the ultimate show down with Ponches Pilot(played by Michael Ironside). They fight as they make thier way up the roof. Arnold has the clear advantage because he has the cross nails still imbedded in his hands.Arnold back hands Pilot in the neck with the nail as we get the patented Verhoven neck blood squirt(robo cop,total recall). Pilot staggers backwards as he begins to fall off the roof.Arnold grabs him. Pilot pulls out a knife from his toga and smiles at arnold. " I'm sorry Jesus" he says as he begins to thrust the knife at Arnold. "I FORGIVE YOU" Arnold says back as he drops him from the roof. Arnold turns around as the Apostiles race up to the roof. " Can we help you my lord?????" ONLY WIT DA CLEENING UP OF THE BODIES!!!!!" The end.
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I vote for SHOWGIRLS 2: THE SEARCH FOR CHRIST. It would be the funniest movie ever! LOL!! Good one, Johnny Danger. BTW, Verhoven's The Fourth Man has little to do with religion. It does have a scene where the main character runs his hands all over the near naked body of the crucified stud he wants to fuck.
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You call me an arsehole but I turn the other cheek, that's christianity for you...nothing but love. Oh, how did you guess I'm dutch? Could it be because of the first fucking post on this list? You piece of shit...
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As so many of you have refered to christians as the "religous right" hate to ask but what about all the other christians in the world? I'm sure thier ideology is right as well.
Talking out of your asses, as ususal.
there isn't ANY "historical" documents on Jesus except a few roman docs which tells us nothing.
the gospels are the only thing we have, and the earliest one was written 30 years after his death.
But then again, I bet you all don't believe that the Jews were slaves in Egypt and Moses led them out, because their are "holes" in Exodus.
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I love Paul Verhoeven. i would see anything by this guy. The idea of him making the story of Jesus our Lord, "is better than a ten inch cock" to quote his best movie so far "Showgirls". I think we need more directors like him. He does not seem to give a flying shit about what anybody thinks. There is no denying that however questionable the material is that he works with, it is never boring. There is a certain subversive energy to any of his films.
"Paul make "Jesus" anyway possible. Maybe you can get Esterwhore to write the script. " -
I think its funny when people talk about the "historical Jesus", as if there is ample documentation to refute the gospel accounts. When you get down to it, if you want to deny the gospels as being factual, but you still want to acknowledge the fact that Jesus was a historical figure, then all you know is that he was a man. Thats about it. I hope Jesus banging Mary Magdelene is not what Verhoeven considers historical. The "historical Jesus" is nothing but a sad attempt to upset religious groups and to be "cool" by being sacreligious. As has been stated already by other people, Scorcese's film was tasteful and heartfelt. It appears this films soul purpose is to make people mad for the fun of it.
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I will pay good money ONLY if Elizabeth Berkeley is in the role of Mary Magdalene. (Of course, when she's angry she won't be able to pound on the roof of any cars ...)
I must say I do love the idea of Caspar van Dien as Jesus. Do you think Doogie and Denise Richards' lips and tits could make cameo appearances as the Three Wise Men? Richard E. Grant as Pontius Pilate. -
This is perhaps the best and certainly the funniest talkbalk of all time. I can see it now: Michael Douglas-Jesus Christ[the tragic untold tale of his cocaine addiction and tendency to kill Brainbugs with his automatic rifle while engaging in rough sex with Mary and Judas], Elizabeth Berkley-Mary[the woman who seeks to demean herself and her ambition as a world champion cocksucker so she can leech off the "popularity" of this new up-and-coming Savior {while experimenting in a little lesbian sex while she's at it}, and Pilate, masterfully played by Michael Ironside, ruler of a quasi-fascist Empire who sniffs blow off the hipbones of his sister and mother and later takes really long showers with them. Music by Basil Poledouris. Would you like to know more?
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Have him bitch and moan the entire film about all the Jews in Jerusalem. And about having to take the #7 chariot.
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Quoting from writer Arthur Evans: "To get a concrete idea of how far removed the New Testament is from Jesus, imagine for a moment that after Mohandas Gandhi died in India in 1948 all his immediate followers were wiped out and that nothing of his own writings survived. Then, imagine that in 1968 an Englishman named Paul, who never knew him, began circulating letters that Gandhi had risen from the dead and was the world's savior from sin. Next imagine that after 1988 a number of conflicting short stories appeared out of London, written anonymously by people who likewise had never known Gandhi, claiming that he was the Son-of-God, born from a virgin, etc. Finally, imagine that around the year 2118 four of those stories were declared to be the gospel truth for all future beliefs about Gandhi. Imagine this process, and you will be close to visualizing the emergence of early Christian beliefs about Jesus."
The account of Christ has been political from very early on. I feel sorry for the man, Jesus. The truth now lost, the greatest story never told. It seems there may have been something beautiful there, now a faint shadow, corrupted through the ages, and turned to serve, generation after generation, the egos of those who would control his memory, for power, hatred, killing and commerce.
I say let another Paul, the modern Mr. Verhoeven, my Dutch soul-brother, have a try. Considering the historical abuse of the Jesus story, as a justification of the Crusades, the murder and enslavment of indigenous Americans and our own malignant religious right, he could do no worse. -
He should make Jesus like that priest in Paul Jackson's Dead Alive: "I kick ass for the lord!" Now that would be funny.
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The FACT is that we have many historical documents which tell us the exact same message that the Bible does. Doesn't anyone go to the library anymore? Look for writings of Igatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, Polycarp, and so on. Many of these guys were disciples of John (you know, who wrote the book of John). The historical evidence here is huge (references in other very early writings, greek linguistics, etc.). These early guys are very interesting, and write about a church (in existence before the end of the first century) which teaches the same things that the Catholics belive today. Look it up, and give us a break, please.
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Didn't Paul already do a movie where a guy gets killed and then comes back later? You'd think he's come up with a new idea.
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Actually the historic documents that contradict the Bible are numerous. From official Roman arrest records, to the Dead Sea Scrolls, a very different picture is painted of the man. For one he was short, ugly, and balding, that according to the Romans who made elaborate descriptions of everyone they arrested. But his religous connections are the most confusing. He was a Jew, but was a traveling magician, the old times equivalent of a "faith healer." The actual acts he did perform are disputed, no one was actually there to witness and write anything down. But he did gather a following, which did threaten to destabilize the fairly new Roman influence in the area. So he was crucified, in circa 25CE, he was about 37(or so he claimed), so he would have been 12 in the year 1(which was actually called 1100 something on the Roman calendar). But he survived the crusifiction. The Romans just wanted to have him publicly debased for awhile, and then they cut him down, and told him to leave the area. Which he did, and went into the wilderness where he did get a wife, and had 6 children, he died in about 54CE around 66 years of age in obscurity. Not much is known of his decendents, it is suspected they became nomadic herders, and were wiped out by the Christians during the Crusades(kinda ironic huh?). See any of the books by Dr. Theiring about this stuff. You can get them from Amazon.com
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you gotta admit a bad Verhoeven film is ALMOST as entertaining as a good one. I thought Showgirls and Starship Troopers would be unwatchable and, to a degree, they are but, dammit, they're soooooo bad in such a glorious way that they're better than at least 3/4's of the tripe that comes out of Hollywood...Serioulsy, just imagine how much more of a disaster End of Days could've been if Verhoeven had done it. It would've been a classic turkey. I just know it. Oh well...Missed opportunities...
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Since Basic Instinct, he has wanted to do this film. Actually, this was supposed to be his next project after Instinct. Looks like another Crusades, probably will never happens. If it does, the movie will probably suck due to the fact of TRYING TOO HARD to be controversial, and blasting a religion, that the story will suffer.
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This could actually be pretty damn good (maybe even great) if it's played straight, although no matter what happens you are going to have the hard core bible bashers standing outside the theatres with pickets (my advice, join in for a while before the movie, sing a few rounds of 'Always look at the bright side of life', sprout a few Python quotes and then go in and watch the movie). I'm a big fan of Scorsese's Last Temptation Of Christ (which despite the protests I think presented Christ in both a sympathetic and believable manner) as well as historical epics, including Verhoeven's own Flesh + Blood (fantastic film) so I'm very interested to see what could come of this. Whatever happens it'd be definitely worth a look in my book. Just have to wait and see what (if anything) comes of this project.
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Jan 23, 2000 3:33:49 AM CST
Um, no offense, but has Verhoeven ever done a straight movie?
by lostoptimist
Let's just face it. If this ever gets made, it would no doubt be waaaaayyyy over the top. I'm talking Evil Dead 2 kind of carnage here. I'd pay to see it but there is no way in hell it'll get financed for more than 5 million let alone something in the teens.
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Well, why not? Verhoeven has fucked up so many other films, why not spread his particular brand of diseased lunacy to the Legend of Christ! And even when his films suck (which is pretty regularly), they are still unintentionally hilarious!
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Are you gonna believe Paul instead? A man that would lie, backstab, and downright manipulate anything he could to try and win more converts to the religion he had created? A man that so obviously stole the whole Jesus story idea from Mitharism? A book who's account can offer up almost zero collaberating evidence? I'm an atheist, and have no religous predications on this, and as such am only willing to believe what is and isn't supported by evidence. Perhaps Jesus was more like the bibilical account, if sufficient physical evidence arises, I'll have to believe that. Until then we should all keep an open mind on this. It's not Christian bashing, it's a search for the truth, the basic ideal behind modern science. If the "truth" conflicts with your beliefs, deal with it, don't just write it off as propoganda.
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Well, I happen to have a personal relationship with Christ, and I can tell you for a fact that he prefers Willem Dafoe's portrayal over all others (although he usually pronounces "Willem" as "William"...I always correct him but--hey, he's JESUS, what can ya do?).
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What would be a very interesting and controversial take on the subject is an adaption of PKD's "The Transmigration of Timothy Archer", which is (partly) about a devout Bishop who questions his faith after uncovering hidden materials that suggest "Jesus" was actually a holy name for psychedelic mushrooms used by ancient mystics. I'm sure many here would agree that experiencing this drug is about as powerful, eye opening, inspiring, and love-for-the-universe-producing as anything in the Bible...the book was PKD's last, and it's actually a really beautiful and moving story...on another note, who cares about this Verhoeven project? If Orson Welles couldn't get the backing to do "Life of Christ" in the 1940's there's no way PV's gonna get it now for a hatchet job. Martin Scorsese, a devout Catholic, sat on LTOC for what, 12 years, and could barely get it into Americn theatres. For shame! If you want to see a real insightful Fuck You to the Church, see Luis Bunuel's The Milky Way (or several of his other anti-eshtablishment films). That guy is a genius, with balls much bigger than Verhoeven THINKS he has.
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Historical records from that epoch (including the Quran) are spotty at best when it comes to Jesus, but the Gospels are no better- the four of them, when considered to be different books by different authors reporting heresay and written up to a couple of centuries apart, confirm little but the names of the people involved. Plus they have been re-translated and re-edited so often for political reasons as to be nearly useless. Most historical re-examinations of the life of Jesus start with this premise: he was Jewish, and most probably a rabbi (he's referred to as such in many places, but also his learnedness would indicate study at a rabbinical school). Which would mean he would HAVE to have been married, according to Judaic law. Two things in the Gospels offer support for this, even after the rewrites: 1) the water to wine miracle- the group is attending a wedding, but the names of the bride and groom are not mentioned, and Jesus' mother instructs HIM to provide wine for the gathering. Why would Jesus and his mother be acting as host and hostess for the wedding of someone other than her son? (John 2 is the chapter, I believe) 2) prior to the resurrection of Lazarus, Lazarus' sister Mary of Bethany (who may have been the Magdalene as well) is sitting shivvah, or is in mourning for her brother. When Jesus arrives, she remains in the house until he specifically commands her to exit- and under Judaic law, a woman can only be ordered to break shivvah by her husband. (In John 11?, but also confirmed by an earlier draft of Mark that still survives.) The conclusion here is pretty clear to me.
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Umm, and exactly where in an "historical reconstruction" does Jesus and Mary Magdalene fornicating come from? The Bible is not credible, but _that_ is?
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Jan 23, 2000 8:42:53 PM CST
Martin Scorsese, Luc Besson, and Paul Verhoeven should start the
by dead eye
Oh great another guy trying to stir things up at the Vatican again. Why tell a fictional story, well why tell a blasphemous one? Luc Besson did a fine job of making Joan of Arc look crazy, hey Luc ever heard of karma? Oh yeah let's not forget blasphemous movie #1 Martin Scorsese's LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST. Come on guys what are you try to do? These aren't regular humans, they're AVATARS, (look that up) they either flawless or near flawless people. They don't fornicate, they're not crazy, they aren't really human!
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Jesus did not fornicate in THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST. He has a dying fantasy (induced by Satan) in which he was married and had children. That is, duh, the LAST temptation. And the resolution at the end of the film is so moving that you'd have to be one heartless and/or confused Christian to not feel it. Of course, there ARE plenty of other things in the film that are blasphemous (even according to the screenwriter!)...but it's nothing involving fornication.
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It is strange to comment on my own piece, but I think of it as commenting on some of your comments. I tried to be as objective as possible in the piece I wrote, and I understand that Verhoeven is quite controversial, but dissing Verhoeven's very obvious talent in such a way is uncalled for. Verhoeven made one dud, and that's Showgirls. He single-handedly, well with the help from Sharon Stone's pubic hair, saved a lame script from Eszterhas from becoming the boring movie it would have made. Most of the other movies he made were great, but you're all mentioning his Hollywood blockbusters. When I think of Verhoeven, I mainly think of his Dutch films and of Flesh and Blood. This 1985 movie is probably one of the medieval epics; easily on par with The Messenger and Braveheart.
It is in this movie that Verhoeven really shows that he is not showing us nudity, gory violence and bad language for perversions sake. Through viewing this film it became clear to me that Verhoeven was just trying to show the true grit and crassness of medieval life. Just watch the boils of the bubonic plague victims and you'll known what I mean. I'm just happy that there's no such thing as smell-o-vision with this movie. But what he truly shows in that film is his skill as director, making the dark ages completely believable.
I probably should've avoided mentioning the fornicating bit, but it's what Verhoeven said. However that little fact does not detract from the fact that Verhoeven is a good director who will probably show more integrity in bringing this story to life, than most of you can imagine.
The Spying Dutchman
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I'm just waiting for the scene where Jesus turns the water into wine--then Verhoeven can zoom in on one of the bystanders, a bald man with a mustache who screams out "I'll buy that for a dollar!" and makes some perverted-sounding yell.
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