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The Lizard Confirmed as big baddie of The Amazing Spider-Man! And Quint's seen him!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. I'm working on my full report right now, but I wanted to kick off some conversation about the big Amazing Spider-Man panel that hit today.
Detailed report forthcoming, but here's the quick of it: Andrew Garfield NAILS Peter Parker and Spider-Man. He's a smart-ass to thugs, thank God. Emma Stone is perfect as Gwen Stacey and her chemistry with Peter Parker is sweet, innocently flirty. Perfect. Martin Sheen is great as Uncle Ben... stern, but with a sense of humor. Sally Field doesn't look the part at all (no white haired Aunt May this time around), but we didn't see enough of her for me to pass any real judgment. Rhys Ifans seemed to really get the great sadness of Dr. Curt Connors.
They confirmed the Lizard is the big baddie and showed us quite a bit of footage, including some mid-way transformation (looked good, real make-up, etc) and some full on Lizard action, which wasn't as thrilling. The CG wasn't bad, but he's hulked out.
The new Lizard is massive, looking more like a cross between Venom and Killer Croc. The face has an original Ditko symmetry to it and the tongue did poke out at two frightened girls (he makes his big entrance from a girl's toilet, believe it or not). But no lab coat, naked lizard green body all bulked up and full of CGI fury.
I'll give the filmmakers a little leeway on the CGI... we are a full year away from the movie's release, but I don't think I'm a fan of this giant hulking CGI Lizard from a design perspective or a technical perspective. The rest of the world seems to be grounded, stunts are real, action real, and then there's this big CGI thing in the middle of it all with little personality, at least from what was shown.
So, chew on that for a bit while I work up the detailed panel and footage description.
-Quint
quint@aintitcool.com
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I can't imagine the Lizard looking good. Probably my least favorite villain. First.
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Jul 22, 2011 10:04:23 PM CDT
Are you serious??? The Lizard is the Spider-Man villian!!!
by the_credible_hulk
I really can't beilieve this!! It's totally out of left field!
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Jul 22, 2011 10:07:54 PM CDT
They'll never learn. These CGI monsters always look terrible
by rev_skarekroe
I'm sure the Hulk will look awful in Avengers, too. Just like he looked awful in the last two Hulk movies. Lord of the Rings is probably the only time I've ever seen a CGI creature interact with humans in a really convincing way.
And don't mention Jurassic Park, because all the really good shots of the t-rex were a damn robot. -
Jul 22, 2011 10:08:09 PM CDT
Cool and all, but I'm more interested that Spielberg announced JP4 at the Tintin panel :)
by alienfanatic
http://www.thewrap.com/movies/article/comic-con-steven-spielberg-and-peter-jackson-wow-crowd-tintin-panel-29367
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The fight at the incredible hulk got boring because it felt like you were watching a cartoon...
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I think you mean Electro.
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Jul 22, 2011 10:11:34 PM CDT
i appreciate the candor, quint, but the "faint-praising" of the cgi at this point is kinda bitchy
by dahveed1972
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Jul 22, 2011 10:14:07 PM CDT
i have absolutely no feelings one way or the other about this movie btw
by dahveed1972
but i would assume that until the fx are completely done, theyre gonna look like shit. or do you just not like the design choices? i was hoping for a more "lizard-like" lizard, but id be happy with anything unique looking.
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I'd rather have some changes than the saccarine sweet Aunt May from the Raimi movies. That stuff might have flown in the 60's but May needs to be an actual character, not an archetype of goodness and sweetness... a sweet old lady. With Sally Fields playing her, and Martin Sheen playing Uncle Ben, there may actually be something two those characters... The Raimi movies were good for what they were, I really enjoyed parts of one and two, but a modern take is needed. Very curious about this take.
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75mm opening weekend and 140mm total domestic gross.... Think about how excited you were leading up to the original one... Now think about the UNIVERSAL lack of excitement for this one.......
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and Quint's not kidding...Garfield is awesome. His Con entrance was interrupting the moderator as an annoying fan at the audience Q&A mike..dressed in a cheesy Spidey costume. He rips off the mask and the crowd went nuts, and then he read a seemingly genuine, heartfelt speech he'd written on a few pieces of paper about how grateful he was for the chance to play the part, and how much Spider-Man meant to him grwoing up. The trailer footage was in 3-D, and even had a few extra quick images thrown in. The longer Con special footage was very cool...the thug footage Quint's talking about was hilarious..Spidey webs a guy to a wall and they do a montage of him throwing it at the guy several different ways..wind up, quick draw..at one point, he sneeezes and webs him. Practial webslining is shot real well; he has weight, very acrobatic. Lizard footage, although a massive geek0out at seeing him realized, looked a LOT like Big Green Venom, but again, it's a year out. Still awesome. I'm dead tired from today and last night's Con parties, so forgive my spelling and grammar.
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...and even the 90s cartoon paid homage by including him in the first show.
Raimi's movies held the character back to the point of irrelevance.
We're getting a "new" villain in a reboot.
There is much to be thankful for. Respect. -
Jul 22, 2011 10:19:55 PM CDT
Real stunts, real action, real Peter Parker, a hot Gwen Stacey...
by hollywoodhellraiser
Doc Conners, a smartass Spidey!
Damn sound like Amazing is everything that Raimi movies tried to be and wasn't...a TRUE Spider-Man movie! -
Cheesy CGI in final product.
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Andrew and Emma have amazing chemistry together, and the love story they share looks to be spot on without being too precious or cloying. And Garfield is perfectly cast as Peter. I can' t wait for this fucking movie!
But the Lizard needs his labcoat!
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FUCK YEAH! YEAH!
YEAH!
YEAH! DINOSAURS! in 3D!
I hope Spielberg directs. That would be rad. Although it always seems like he has forty movies on the go at any given time.
But 2-3 years from now? Maybe he's going to fast-track it. Sometimes he just seems to come from out of nowhere with a film. And he seems to be really good at doing two movies at a time.
SO. EXCITE.
Also, fuck this spidercrap. -
Jul 22, 2011 10:23:00 PM CDT
I wonder if the reboot ends with the death of Gwen?
by marcel_the_negro_projectionist
It would be sad, but powerful, and it'd color Peter's perception of the world thereafter.
Unless Emma proves to be so popular they want to bring her back for the next two. -
Jul 22, 2011 10:26:37 PM CDT
80 million buys you SyFi channel CG creatures
by winona_ryders_pussy_juice
fuck this movie I can't wait till this reboot is dead and gone.
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Yeah, having Spielberg involved with JP4 is a LEETLE bit more exciting than a vague, "I saw a suit and some early CG of Lizard." (Love Quint's articles, but I'm not really anxious for a Spidey reboot, especially after the lackluster trailer.)
My feeling is that Spidey is still very early in production and they're pushing out promo info way earlier than they should.
As for JP4, even if Spielberg was Executive Producer, it sounds like his go-to guy did a good job on Captain America so perhaps he'd be able to pull off JP4. (I'm hoping, though, that Spielberg hops back into the chair and does it himself. The series left a bad skidmark with 3 and it really needs his cachet to get back some credibility.) And the 3D isn't terribly exciting, unless he's got a good way to use it for depth. (I don't want a big T-Rex jumping out of the screen.) -
Jul 22, 2011 10:32:33 PM CDT
This movie should just be five Spidey origin stories, with a reboot every 20 minutes.
by highfunctioningsociopath
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Jul 22, 2011 10:33:32 PM CDT
@Winona Would be nice to see Raimi just fold his arms and smile if it tanks
by alienfanatic
I'm not a Spider-man fan, per se, so I'm not in the hardcore camp at all. But I really did enjoy the way in which Raimi presented Spider-man in 1 & 2. (Hell, Raimi CREATED the superhero genre explosion we've been in over the last 10 years.) I thought his take on Peter Parker was perfect, as were Ben and Mae. I always thought Mary Jane was more fiery, confident, and saucy, but I never had a problem with her.
Too bad he made that mess in #3 (one fewer villain and less disco would have made it 50% better), or we might have seen Raimi's take on Lizard instead. -
I didn't hate JP3 -- I sometimes have to work to be discerning when there's really good special effects about dinosaurs going on -- but the parents and their stupid terrible kid makes it a hard watch. I don't think Johnson was entirely the problem -- I do think he can't direct kids for shit, though.
I can't imagine the 3D would be all dinos-up-in-yo-grille. I'm thinking just really great, tangible depth and scale -- think of the scene in the original when they look up at the brachiosaurus, or when that goat leg hits the car roof and scares the shit out of me. I feel like Spielberg would innately understand the technology. He's good at films. -
Jul 22, 2011 10:49:00 PM CDT
RE: "it sounds like his go-to guy did a good job on Captain America so perhaps he'd be able to pull off JP4"
by teatimeontheorca
You mean Joe Johnston? He was given Jurassic Park III and it was one of the worst movies ever made. Not to mention he reportedly scrapped a cool script idea and chose a Family angle.
I like Joe. I root for him... Jurassic III was terrible though. It felt like a dumbed down 1980's made for T.V. movie with better effects. -
playing The Lizard? He's good on Damages this year.
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Jul 22, 2011 10:52:52 PM CDT
re: "Raimi created the superhero genre explosion???
by hollywoodhellraiser
Wha...are you kidding!? hell I thought it was Blade that got marvel back into the game after it bankruptcies(sp?) and selling off its properties.
Raimi Spider-Man wasn't responsibile for jack! -
Jul 22, 2011 10:55:56 PM CDT
Can we get a scary Lizard please? For the love of God.
by onin solstice
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Then Constantine would be responsible for Nolan's Batman films by that logic.
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Jul 22, 2011 11:04:00 PM CDT
CGI will ruin it all the way. Fail. Put some effort into if for Christ sakes......
by thetoiletbrush
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I'm guessing the poster meant as far as the commercial success of the film.
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The general populace has no idea Blade is a Marvel Comics character any more than they do Swamp Thing is a DC Comics character. And as far as Spidey 1 kicking off the comic movie explosion, by my calculations X2 was what set the stage for a mega-budget Spidey flick in the first place... Singer gets the credit.
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For me, that was THE biggest complaint I had about Raimi's films. Tobey's personality while in the suit just didn't do it for me. I know he's got some haters, but I think Garfield is going to nail this.
The only person I would really WANT to see as Spidey is Topher Grace. I think his Eddie Brock was more Peter Parker-ish than Tobey in SM3. But that's just me. -
The trailer was average, if unspectacular (unamazing?). It would be nice to see something that gets the fans a bit more excited, i.e. some webswinging/wisecracking action. I do think Garfield can nail this.
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Yeah, it's a shame he never got to play the Lizard, but his role on Damages is fantastic so far. Pretty excited for the rest of the season.
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Jul 22, 2011 11:12:44 PM CDT
blackbauer, you do realize Blade was a commerical success?
by hollywoodhellraiser
And it put Marvel back on the map. Why this film continues to be overlook is a mystery to me.
Yes we know Spidey and Xmen are popular Marvel titles but they did go with Blade first. An unknown character that ended up making millions.
Rahtard no offense but I don't get your comparison considering DC/Warner Batman films with Keaton were box office successes. So I don't get why you included Constantine in your argument. -
Jul 22, 2011 11:16:15 PM CDT
"The general populace has no idea Blade is a Marvel Comics character"
by gene_the_cows_lsd_milk
I'm still waiting for Marvel's true cash cow ...
Giant Size Man-Thing!
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/2747/107111-2684-108384-1-giant-size-man-thing_super.JPG
You know it has to happen. -
I actually have high hopes for this just because the intial teaser was nothing special. So many of these movies are backwards-engineered to produce a big trailer. I think they just tried to pick shots that would intrest fans of the Raimi films but I suspect it will be an entirely new exprience and a better one.
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No me in the theater. Stupid, stupid, stupid to not have JJ in it.
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I was merely suggesting that from a mainstream point of view, many people remember Spider-Man as being a starting point, because of its widespread critical and mass appeal.
Don't worry, I'm quite aware of the badassery that is Blade. That said, the above poster has a point when they mention that a lot of people wouldn't even know what "universe" he's from. -
Jul 22, 2011 11:31:55 PM CDT
Blackbauer, mainstream point yes, X-Men AND then Spidey, IMO.
by hollywoodhellraiser
And I did point out that Blade was an inknown character of Marvel and yet, it was a box-office success.
I say, win-win for everyone. -
Every single one of you who craps on Raimi can't say that he at least would have kept The Lizard looking a bit like the classic villain we know and love.
Green Goblin design notwithstanding I mean.
Roids? Really? A man-sized dinosaur-lizard needs to be muscled-up like Bane in order to bs scary? Idiots... -
He wasn't roided out like in the comics, but it damn sure looked like Venom to me.
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Jul 22, 2011 11:36:29 PM CDT
I actually find it quite interesting that Blade was the "trial run" Marvel property
by blackbauer0320
You have to wonder what it was about that character that gave them more confidence than any of the other characters at their arsenal.
Also interesting is the fact that Blade is a combination of two of the biggest box-office draws these days (superheroes and vampires), and yet has no following or popularity anymore after the colossal failure of Trinity. -
I kid, but that was the coolest thing about the lizard is that he still wore his lab coat!
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What a stupid idea for a villain. Not that this is news, though. Does this Mark Webb guy have any clue what he's doing? All signs so far point to no.
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No idea how that would have worked.
And the Lizard? Ugh. One of the lamer of Spidey's villains, but at least it's not Carnage. -
they had the one armed dork doctor in the third one so...Fat Joe as Kingpin
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Jul 22, 2011 11:49:39 PM CDT
From the picture I saw, someone took the JP TREX head and tweaked it...
by boober
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Jul 22, 2011 11:51:40 PM CDT
Yeah, I saw the cars flipping and thought: "OK this is a kindred freaks fighting kind of thing but the lizard is like the RHINO?"
by boober
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That's what everyone involved with this movie has been saying and showing, but then we get that POV sequence in the trailer. Doesn't fill me with confidence combined with this report of CG lizard-hulk. So far this is not looking good at all.
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Jul 23, 2011 12:05:51 AM CDT
Chrissake, listen at some of you; lab coat, Stan Lee B movie monster...
by hollywoodhellraiser
the lizard being one of Spidey lamer villians(If you're a true Spidey fan then you know thats NOT true), Raimi got Venom right(LOL you're kidding? Plus you ignore his Sandman treatment), etc and etc. Just lame excuses after lame excuses.
You guys are searching very hard to dislike this movie(btw its not even close to being release) that its pathetic. It reeks of desperation.
I get that some of you are still sucking the tits of Raimi but its time to get off the breast and free yourselves. -
Those are guys you can build a movie on. Is Norman Osborne in this thing?
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http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg122/Spider-ManHero12/rhyslis.jpg?t=1304439679
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don't you get syfy channel?
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Jul 23, 2011 12:15:30 AM CDT
Correction, that fan-made poster of the Lizard is obviously lifted from the TREXs in Jackson's Kong.
by boober
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is an incredible actress and nails that maternal side any time she tries. Also she's so hot for her age :P
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Jul 23, 2011 12:16:18 AM CDT
Andrew Garfield main entrance at COMIC-CON 2011!!!!!
by hollywoodhellraiser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGJaMJN9rgk
Speech by Andrew is fucking fantastic and so heartfelt! Man, you'll almost cry. -
Lab-coat! Lab-coat! Lab-coat!
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Jul 23, 2011 12:28:25 AM CDT
HollywoodHellraiser, you ignored or misread what I really said
by d.vader
Yeah, aside from not being super-roided out, Raimi got Venom right (as far as looks go). It *looked* like Venom.
And Sandman was SPOT ON as far as looks go (and thats All these discussions have been about, looks, Lizard's look, not characterization).
A roided out Killer Croc version of The Lizard is NOT a Lizard I want to see.
Trench coats and pants. Lithe yet scary. A 6 foot Lizard is scary enough. He doesn't need to be jacked up too. -
Jul 23, 2011 12:28:51 AM CDT
Emma Stone has already said she's in for more movies beyond this one
by dursman2000
Gwen's not dying...at least not right away.
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Jul 23, 2011 12:29:27 AM CDT
Moosemalloy, I look over and saw Kurt Russell laughing..
by hollywoodhellraiser
so I guess it was ok.
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Jul 23, 2011 12:34:48 AM CDT
As soon as people get a whiff of how lame the Lizard looks
by winona_ryders_pussy_juice
the bad buzz is going to spread like the plague.
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Jul 23, 2011 12:35:15 AM CDT
Prediction = Harry will shit on Raimi's Spiderman and praise Webb's Spiderman
by richallen
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Jul 23, 2011 12:42:59 AM CDT
Well i'm glad to see the support here for CLASSIC LIZARD
by viggeo_morgenstein
Fuck this CGI-heavy, "hulked out", "roided up", giant monstrosity BULLSHIT. I want my goddamn lizard to be Peter Parker's size... with his fuckin' LAB COAT... and PRACTICAL FUCKING EFFECTS. Make it creepy, but subtle... and emphasize the TRAGEDY of Connors' situation, instead of making everything EXTREEEEEEMMMMMMEEEEE!!
Goddamn Hollywood... they're just never gonna figure this shit out.
Hell, maybe we can't even blame Hollywood at this point. It's a business and they gotta make their money. It's probably the dumb-fuck audience we should be more angry at... -
Jul 23, 2011 12:48:56 AM CDT
Also, despite the fucked up nature of his physical appearance... they fucked up the CHARACTER as well
by viggeo_morgenstein
The Lizard really needs to be a villain set up over a film or 2. Save him for the sequels. It'll bring a lot more pathos to the character if we get to know him over the course of a couple of films (like in Raimi's trilogy... they were setting him up PERFECTLY). So it'll obviously mean a lot more to the audience when he finally does make his inevitable transformation.
As opposed to this shite. I wonder if Parker will even have any history at all with Dr. Connors? And this guy just LOOKS evil right off the bat... he reminds me of Dwight Yoakam from Panic Room or some shit. He just has that look. Dylan Baker on the other hand, looked like an innocent, charming man. Someone you'd really feel sorry for when his tragedy begins...
Goddamn, this is depressing. My hopes for this reboot just took a massive hit with this report. -
Jul 23, 2011 12:49:27 AM CDT
I see some art with a very large version of the Lizard
by winona_ryders_pussy_juice
with a lab coat. It looks pretty cool. But it doesn't look like a rubbery(the cgi is going to be bad, folks, very bad) roided-out, cheesy monster. No, the effects are not going to be polished. It's not going to look any better a year from now. It's gonna still look like a turd.
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Genre killer.
Horrendous suit design.
Cheap looking CGI.
"Emo" tone.
Pointless reboot of a series that isn't even a decade old. -
Jul 23, 2011 1:00:21 AM CDT
And for all the Raimi love here... don't forget the other characters he fucked up besides the obvious Gobby
by viggeo_morgenstein
Doc Ock?? Despite a pretty fine performance by Alfred Molina, they completely fucked up his character from the comics. He was never a sympathetic villain (that's what fucking LIZARD is for). His whole motivation in the film was weak, as were the logistics and practical nature of his behavior. It just wasn't well thought out, and it didn't come off as believable for the audience.
Sandman, again, should not be a goddamn sympathetic character. He should be a henchman type (ala the damn fine script treatment by Cameron back in the early '90's... in which he was Electro's right hand man) They got the look of Sandman SPOT-ON, but the character was fucked.
Venom and Gobby were obviously all sorts of wrong. The appearance, the rushed/contrived nature of their transformations and motivations... the fact that they basically made both of them goddamn sympathetic characters as well! Why was Raimi so terrified of creating a REAL FUCKING BAD GUY?? Doc Ock and Gobby are fucking PSYCHOPATHS. They are more or less, pure evil. Doc Ock is a MAD SCIENTIST, and Gobby should be some serial killer type, crazy fucker, who flies around pumpkin bombing and terrorizing innocent people. He should be batshit insane, and EVIL (like the fuckin' Joker or something). And stop it with the godforsaken ORIGIN STORIES for the heroes AND the villains as well. Every villain in the RAIMI-VERSE was ORIGINIZED... it's fucking AMATEUR!
Anywho...
In conclusion, the LIZARD is the only sympathetic villain in the Spiderman mythos. Why is this so difficult to maintain? -
How did I miss the casting on this one??
What are your guys' thoughts on Leary as Gwen's father?
I personally love him, and think he'll be great. -
If you're gonna do Lizard, you need to do Kraven as well. The story practically writes itself. Another reason this plot should NOT be done in the first film of a new series... too crowded.
The obvious choice would have been to do the Green Goblin (but the RIGHT WAY - as mentioned in my previous post). No fake ass, goofy looking Power Rangers suit. Give him a fuckin' rubber mask and a hood. No origin story either. He's been terrorizing the city for years, and nobody could stop him. Until Spidey shows up... He should be the JOKER of the Spiderman universe. Peter's biggest, baddest adversary of them all. Make him kill Gwen... all that shit. He should be a recurring figure throughout the trilogy.
And set up Connors for the sequel (with kraven - The Last Hunt)... and then finish the trilogy off with Gobby's return and maybe Doc Ock (crazy, mad scientist, Doc Ock).
And get Elliot Goldenthal to score it!
Perfection. -
Yes, yes he did, very clearly, and just about everyone agrees on this matter. How would Blade have caused the hero genre explosion? Nobody even knew he was a comicbook superhero! And no other comicbook movies were created because of it. It was profitable sure, but not incredibly so. Even X-Men wasn't big enough to really make a difference.
Spiderman, on the other hand, was the first movie to make over $100 million in a single weekend, made the most money in a single day of any movie before it, made over $400 million in box office totals. It really showed Hollywood that a superhero movie can be incredibly super profitable when done well, and the years after that were filled with comicbook hero movies as everyone tried to jump on the bandwagon. -
still looks more like a spidey suit than the horrible new one. why mess with a classic design?
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Jul 23, 2011 1:22:08 AM CDT
Lab coat on Lizard or GTFO. Also, pearl necklace on Gwen.
by dennis_moore
And fuck Ultimates.
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Jul 23, 2011 1:28:38 AM CDT
Viggeo, Raimi made his villians all the same because...
by hollywoodhellraiser
he a hack. I know his fanboys will defend him but Raimi isn't that great of a director. Never was. He gets a passed for his Evil Dead films which has the same scenes basically.
Glad that he pointed out how he made his villians in the Spidey-verse sympathic. I could see him doing that to one but he made every goddamn villian a poor slob that we should feel sorry for.
Did anyone feel sorry for Joker in Nolan's Batman? HELL NO! Because Joker was protrayed as the nutjob/killer that we're familiar with! -
CGI Hulk Lizard sounds bad to me. This movie will look good and be tonally refreshing for Spider-Man, but the movie is going to be Twilight meets Dark Knight, trust me. With a CGI Lizard and a retread of the origin, I am not excited. That Spidey-POV scene is all I'm really interested in to be honest, and I saw it already in the theater in front of Captain America, and it was cool.
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Jul 23, 2011 1:42:52 AM CDT
Shit, I can't believe I'm agreeing with viggbitch, but yeah, Riami did kind of botch the villians' motivation, especially Sandman.
by thegoblinknightlex
And that Andrew Garfield video is pretty damned cool.
I'm hoping he enjoys his time playing an icon. -
Jul 23, 2011 1:47:38 AM CDT
One thing I disagree with viggbitch on regarding Doc Ock is that he was plenty menacing...
by thegoblinknightlex
It's just that they saddled him with that lame plot device about the arms controlling him. That scene where he pushed aside the crowd protecting Spidey was hilarious in how malicious it is. Five or so seconds of true villainy.
Then again, Riami neutered Peter, as well, and made him a dork in puppy love with a, yes, flaky tramp. -
Nipples on a lab coat sounds like it would fit in with the first appearance being in a toilet.
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Jul 23, 2011 2:38:18 AM CDT
So frustrating. Sounds like Ditko lizard X Venom T Rex
by detective_fingerling
from Old Man Logan.
I just want to see the best damned adaptation of the characters I've been reading for a few decades. None of this "Ultimate" universe bullshit I know they're trying to shift to in all of their movies. I don't understand how Spiderman, Iron Man and Batman can all work so well in their classic costume on screen but we can't get a single comic version of a villain ever. Would it have killed Nolan to put Al Ghul in a green suit and coat? I guess Iron Monger was pretty faithful, but Lizard should = lab coat. Why is that not understood in pre production? Even Abomination was fucked up.
And let me guess...they're going to show the lab coat still on the lizard for all of 2 slow mo seconds before it's ripped to shreds after he hulks out.
Hell, in two iterations of HULK we've kept the pants on him. -
I mean come on, as a filmmaker, you're taking away such an easy method of characterization. Obviously you've got this crazy-ass lizard thing, and everybody knows it's a crazy-ass lizard thing, but leave the labcoat on and it humanizes him *just* enough to make the audience hesitate and say "hey, maybe there's more to this guy"
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I mean, didn't Stan Lees comments about Spiderman and the Lizard having an epic fight in a library while he obliviously listens to music on his head phones tip off who the villain was. Didn't the casting of Rhys Ifans as Dr Curt Connors / the Lizard offer a somewhat confirmation as to the villain too. I liked the preview for Amazing Spider-Man, but I hate CGI with a passion and can't imagine the Lizard being a good choice as a villain. I will hold out hope on this one until I see a little more, but it feels grim. As for Captain America, that thing was close to being great, but ultimately missed the mark. Great script, great casting, bad director. Too much cheese, but a vast improvement for Joe Johnston. I was shocked he came so close to making a decent movie. Strong effort.
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Jul 23, 2011 3:36:58 AM CDT
Bitching about the unnecessary re-telling of the origin AGAIN.
by cysticrambosis
I saw Captain America today (great BTW) and they showed the crappy trailer for Spider-Man. Right at the beginning of the trailer when "Peter Parker" was said, these 2 kids behind me, around 5 or 6ish both exclaimed "Spider-Man!" If they know who Spider-Man is...everyone does, doesn't it make sense to just scrap all that origin shit and go on to Spider-Man being a badass and fighting villians we haven't seen yet? If they scrapped all that horse shit, maybe they'd have had enough time, and money to make the lizard look right as opposed to the creature from Lake Placid.
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There's a great moment in the trailer where you can see Dennis Leary looking all suspicious and on the ball, as he's at the table with Peter, which suggests to me that this George Stacey will be intelligent enough to figure out that Pete is Spidey, much like his comicbook counterpart did.
(Spoiler) I wonder though if they'll be equally faithful to having the character die in a fight Spidey has with his villain. (In the comics it was Ock, but they're not gonna use him again, so maybe it'll happen in a battle with the Lizard?)
That could, again like the comics, give Gwen a reason to hate or fear Spidey, (which would be quite a difference from MJ's worship of him in the previous movies..) and thus would believably stop Garfield's Pete from wanting to reveal who he is to her..
Could be interesting..
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I wonder if they'll have her die in the sequel? (Assuming the Raimi worshippers don't sink this one..)
It would be great if they did a proper Green Goblin in the sequel to do this, though they'll probably have to change the location away from the bridge to avoid people accusing them of ripping off the first Spiey's climactic scene..(How ironic..)
What would be really great though is if a sequel gives us the party animal/super model MJ to compete with Gwen, with Pete finding her too shallow, and then after Gwen's death having that great scene where Pete goes nuts at MJ calling her on all her superficiality, and you get that moment where insulted she's about to leave, but instead closes the door and goes back to comfort him. Thus kicking off their relationship ion the same way it developed in the comics.
(And then you throw in the Black Cat in a third movie to really mix things up! LOL!)
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for the sequel, in an attempt at The Dark Knight type epicness. The casting and reveal etc will be hype inducing... and then of course the death of Gwen Stacey...
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You may think that Raimi did a disservice to the comic book characters, and that's your (and probably many others') opinion. But for a large number of viewers, his was the introduction to Spider-man that mattered. His directing style really clicked with a large number of audiences, at least for parts #1 and #2 and led to a large degree of success. Had both he and Singer misfired, I highly doubt you'd see the explosion of superhero films we have now.
And while Blade was a success, many (including me) had no idea he was a comic book character. Blade succeeded because it was a great film and perfectly cast, not necessarily because it had a geek audience.
What I think the geeks of these forums don't realize is that the mainstream viewers--not us--are what has made the superhero genre so resilient. It's also why origin stories work and sequels rarely do. General audiences need a framework to understand the characters because they were never introduced to them before. If a director does a good job of wrapping it up into a tidy shell, you get massive box office. If not, you get films like Daredevil (though in its defense, the studio seems to have screwed that one up more than the director.) And that's why this new Spider-man is ANOTHER origin story. -
Jul 23, 2011 4:14:24 AM CDT
SPOILER(?) Also, regarding X-Men, Jackman announced the Wolverine 2 Villain
by alienfanatic
I'm surprised how behind on the news AICN is, especially for such a big Comic-Con weekend.
He says it's going to be the Silver Samurai. For those like me that aren't comic book geeks (I am more of a sci-fi nut), here's the wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Samurai
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I sympathize with those taking umbrage at the lack of a white coat, and missing Dylan Baker in the role. (He was better casting, I think.) I'm not a fan of the actor they've cast as Curt Conners, but I hope he surprises me in the role.
Though those who are citing Venom as Raimi getting the look of a character right. (Well he certtainly didn't nail the personality of the Venom character..Though you could see Topher doing the best he could with the Eddie Brock role. When he would have been much better casting as Pete than Tobey was..)
Well anyway, there was a great interview with the special effects guys on Spiderman 3 in an issue of Empire film magazine around the time of the DVD release, where they bitched about how they'd put all this work into creating a good looking venom, and yet Raimi, showing his obvious dislike for the character, kept minimizing and reducing all the venom scenes so that you could barely see the character!
They actually said it was the most unprofessional experience they've ever had with a director.. -
I absolutely hate Tobey's charisma less monotone 'performance' as Peter/Spidey. So I'm loving the fact that we've got a better actor in the role. And hearing that we're finally gonna have a wise cracking Spidey is probably the best news on this film that we could possible hear. Since it was the characters wise ass sense of humour in the costume, that pretty much led to the comic being more popular than other more traditional superheroes in the first place.
But more importantly than that, I think it's obvious from Garfield's appearnce at comic con that he really is a long term fan of the character and thus is absolutely gonna do his best to portray Pete accurately. He's obviously genuinelly thrilled and honoured to be given the chance to play a childhood hero. (Heck he even says in his speech that the character and the comics pretty much saved his life when he was a kid..)
Now contrast this with Tobey. Does anyone here, remember when Tobey tried to wriggle his way out of the role for the 2nd movie, and Jake Gyllenhal was being lined up to replace him? Tobey reputedly did a last minute u-turn there, when a studio head who was the father of his girlfriend, pointed out how Michael Keaton's career had supposedly nose dived after leaving the Bat franchise. (Think that's being unfair to Keaton, but I digress.)
So effectively Tobey only went back to the role for the money and fame..(So much for 'action is his reward' eh? ;) ) Heck he actually got $20 million for Spiderman 2. Goodness knows how much he got for the third.
But I think you could really see Tobey's lack of regard for the role on screen. Conversely I think we'll see the opposite from Garfield in the role, and I for one can't wait to see him give a performance that finally does justice to the character! (He certainly isn't doing for the money!) -
Jul 23, 2011 4:39:46 AM CDT
Lizard sans labcoat is this year's Abomination webbed-ears-less...
by dennis_moore
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Loved the first 2 Raimi entries, but the Goblin costume always, always pissed me off. It was shit. Complete and utter shit. It wasn't the Goblin at all but a Mighty Morphin Ranger - but Willam Defoe was frightenly good inspite of the shit suit. But if we get a new Goblin he needs to LOOK like the Green Goblin. For this reason alone, I am looking forward to seeing a new take on Spidey.
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I thought this was announced a long damn time ago... we all knew it was the Lizard for many months, yes?
Sad to hear he is Killer Croc instead of the Lizard. No lab coat? Not even initially when he changes, like shredding it in the first scene as a nod to the comics? Sad, but so is everything I have seen from this film so far.
Doesn't really matter if Pete or Gewn were cast well, the whole movie is a bad idea. Saw the trailer for this before Cap yeterday, no one seemed to care... -
Pleeeeeeease!
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Rendering a lab coat with CGI through all the fights, etc? Not gonna happen. They'd have had to make him a guy in a costume (is that so bad? They could have just CG'ed the head...)
This should have been a sequel, even without Raimi and his actors. Rebooting is just such a dumb idea. A franchise this big has the power to just continue on, regardless of what you may think of any individual sequel.
This should be Spider-Man 4, with Connors FINALLY becoming the Lizard and Gewn being involved instead of MJ. Spider-Man 3 set this situation up fine already! Maybe reveal what happened with Peter's parents (as seems to be the direction they are going.)
Instead we will have to sit through the origin AGAIN, and see him back in high school (at age 30.) Bad idea. -
How can you say sequels rarely succeed as well as origins? Hasn't every sequel in the superhero genere lately made MORE than the previous film? I believe that is true with Spidey, X-Men, Batman, etc.
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IMO, it's because then you'd get audience members thinking Spidey is a bitch for not out right killing them and not understanding who he is. By making the villains more sympathetic we see the hesitation in PP and the moral choices he makes - This is not fucking Miller's Batman, guys seriously.
However, I agree completely about the Lizard. He should be a little taller than your average-man, sure (he kind of stoops), but the lab coat is a must and he shouldn't be CGI-hulked out. His strength and speed should be surprising to the audience, as it should be to Spidey. -
Check it out on Youtube. In the hall we see a lone geek stand up in a shitty spidey suit and starts talking to the crowd and its Andrew Garfield and his speech is incredible. Man, this guy was BORN to play Spiderman. He just sold the WHOLE movie to me. Awesome stunt Andy!
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But what a horrible thing to call that. Every part of the body is beautiful. And actually, in reality it's not that dirty back there at all.
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Pussy casting, if you ask me.
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Jul 23, 2011 6:00:16 AM CDT
So they are not repeating the vilalns form the first Spider-Man movie series. At least not at present.
by asimovlives
Which is a good thing. They are stil playing the broken mentor angle, only this time instead of the mentor being Osbourne or Octavius but Connors.
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Jul 23, 2011 6:07:05 AM CDT
harryblackpotter, i saw that in Youtube. Garfield certainly knows how to sell the movie. and himself as Peter Parker. That was one ingenious stunt he did there.
by asimovlives
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Jul 23, 2011 6:10:30 AM CDT
analfissure, in case you have not realsied it yet, Peter Parker WAS a scrawny pussy before the fateful spider bite that changed him. Talk about good casting.
by asimovlives
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Jul 23, 2011 6:59:07 AM CDT
Awesome, more CGI can't wait1. How it's as good as Gay Lanternzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
by arkhaminmate001
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I wasnt sure about this at first. It seemed like Sony was just doing a watered down version for financial reasons.
And I still wonder what "could have been" if Raimi had got his wish of a mega $$$ CGI movie (Although the Vulture didnt strike me as that interesting a villian) But it aint going to happen.
But I have to say the more I find out about this movie the more intrigued at the potential I become. And yep I'll be checking it out next year. As will most likely a LOT of other people. -
AND NO CGI!
Otherwise I will netflix this.
(Plus how about you get rid of the black crotch so Spidey doesn't look like he wet himself.) -
This will suck! The Ultimate villains are all HULKED out. I'm starting to really hate this movie almost everyday that passes. The story lines in Ultimate are alright but they screw up every villain story line. I always thought the Lizard as smaller, but quicker. Fuck this reboot. Looking for to the reboot to this reboot.
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I've never been more serious about boycotting a movie, in my life! Fuck Sony Pictures!
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Jul 23, 2011 8:31:21 AM CDT
Figures they'd even fuck up The Lizard...
by has_snyder_been_fired_from_superman_yet
...slam Raimi all you want, but at least he knew you didn't take a piss all over the years of hard, creative work done by Steve Ditko and John Romita. I was afraid they were going to model him after the spinosaurus-looking Tod McFarland Lizard... but this sounds even worse!
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Jul 23, 2011 8:35:06 AM CDT
Does they character have that rubbery feel, like he's a balloon bouncing around menacingly?
by has_snyder_been_fired_from_superman_yet
Sort of like Ang Lee's Hulk?
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Jul 23, 2011 8:35:59 AM CDT
can't wait until you Raimi fanboy dipshits are proven wrong
by elsewhere
Can't wait! It's going to be glorious.
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Jul 23, 2011 8:38:29 AM CDT
NO LAB COAT ON LIZARD BOOOOOOO STAY FAITHFUL TO THE LAB COAT BOOOOOO
by triple_j_72
But seriously, folks... Lizzy should be pretty badass. Should make for a great few battle scenes. Finally someone to match Spidey's strength and speed.
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Jul 23, 2011 8:48:57 AM CDT
Personally I'd like to see Black Cat in one of these Spidey movies. (nt)
by triple_j_72
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'Nuff said.
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reminds me of those guys that work in vitamin stores that have never been to med school yet wear the lab coat.
But I really do like the lab coat. -
It looks terrible -- changes for the sake of making changes. I like the web shooters, but in the end, the organic web shooters in Raimi's films didn't bug me as much as I thought they would.
And once more -- let's join hands and say it together: NO MORE ORIGIN STORIES!!! If someone really doesn't know how Spider-Man, Batman, or Superman came to be at this point, look at Google or Wikipedia, or watch one of the films already made. New movie? Recast and tell a story. Don't worry about the set up. We'll catch on. -
Jul 23, 2011 9:16:48 AM CDT
For you memory-damaged neu-fans out there...
by half-baked-goggle-box-do-gooder
..Babbling about Raimi and "Blade" -
Raimi kick-started the comic book movie with "DARKMAN", in 1990 - 8 fucking years before STEPHEN NORRINGTON, not Raimi, did "Blade".
Got that, you amateurs?
As for a roided-out Lizard - Yeah, that's fucked. The deeper connection between both Connors and Parker was Parker's ability to see how easily the tragedy that befalls another brilliant scientist - Connors - Could have been what happened to him.
Instead of sleek, toned musculature, amazing powers and a mission in life - He could've grown extra arms, a huge hairy ass and acquired an uncontrollable desire to suck down cockroaches in public. Not the stuff of which super heroes are fucking made, that's for damn sure.
Connors/Lizard should be played as a smart, decent man horrified at what happens to him. the failed cost of what was meant to be a benefit to mankind. I hope to see a scene, during transformation, where Connors is utterly repulsed and anguished as he feels his intellect and morality slipping away.
And then maybe a scene where the Lizard tries to EAT Parker, because, hey - Reptiles eat fucking bugs.
THAT will be the Lizard, and not some unaccountably pissed-off scaly monster who exists purely to give the hero something to pound on. -
I think this movie will be a shitload of fun. Anybody sticking up for Toady McGuire needs to see a shrink.
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Jul 23, 2011 9:23:49 AM CDT
darkman was a flop and didn't kick start anything you fool
by waka_flocka
Blade did. Think about what you're saying you remedial motherfucker.
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This reboot is going to suck! We don't need another origin story! And Andrew Garfield is a horrible choice.. He is going to be 30 when they start shooting the sequel to the reboot! NO THANK YOU!
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Jul 23, 2011 9:45:34 AM CDT
Isn't the production budget, like, $10 in sofa change?
by orbots commander
Not sure how they're going to pull off a believable CGI villain while making a Roger Corman-ish superhero flick.
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not a single pic of lizard made it out of comic con?
dont anyone get scoops any more?
FAIL. -
Dylan Baker is one of the greatest living actors, and they replaced him with this Brit?
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http://m.ign.com/articles/1183689
Well except about the lizard -
um, no. That was Brian Singer. Thanks for playing. Do you people have such poor memories? While Blade laid the groundwork, it was Singer and his approach to superheroes that actually gave them well-rounded characters and emotional moments (taking them seriously as people first) that started this whole thing. Raimi was just riding the train that Singer drove (ok bad metaphor), but the characters in X-Men and X2 were far more interesting and well-rounded than anybody in Raimi's films, which were fun, but nowhere near the level of the X films (the first two, anyway).
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Jul 23, 2011 10:39:35 AM CDT
How can you say Andrew Garfield "NAILS IT" if you havent seen the movie?
by cotton_mcknight
And how do you know that Emma Stone is "perfect" as Gwen Stacy? That's the problem with these comic con things. Everyone gets caught up in the fanfare and you can't get an objective review.
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Jul 23, 2011 10:41:19 AM CDT
I Thought Running Out Of Hair Gel, Make-Up, Reasons To Be Mad At His Parents, and/or Anti-Depressants And ADHD Medicine Was The Emotastic Spider-Douche's Main Nemesis In This Flick
by neonfrisbee
You suck mom and dad! WAAAAH!!!! Where's my eyeliner? I'm gonna listen to My Chemical Romance and sulk in a corner with my hoodie hood over my head cause I'm such a brooding adolescent! WAAAAAAAAAAAH!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!
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Jul 23, 2011 10:42:19 AM CDT
^ Quint is clearly saying that Andrew nails it, so he can get some awesome gift boxes and future interviews and press screenings.
by natalieportmansyummyafterbirth
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Jul 23, 2011 10:44:38 AM CDT
By Nailing It, He Means He Painted His Nails -- Black, Of Course, To Convey How Brooding He Is
by neonfrisbee
WAAAAAAAAAAH!!! I'm the Emotastic Spider-Douche! See me twinkle in the sun as a cry! WAAAAAH!
FUCK YOU MOM AND DAD! WAAAAAAAH! -
Oh, yeah. fuck Marc Webb and fuck Sony Pictures. A bunch of dirty cocksuckers, the lot of them. This movie already looks fucking terrible! Emma Stone and Andrew Grafield look like shit. The costume looks like shit. And now, the Lizard is gonna look like shit, too. What a shitty movie!
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Sony has been greasing AICN's ass ever since they announced this abomination of a movie. Oh, look, it's Marce Webb, the director of 500 Days of Summer. FUCK 500 DAYS OF SUMMER!!! Hey, it's that guy from Never Let Me Go. FUCK NEVER LET ME GO!!! Go watch the teaser trailer for Spidey 1. It's a MILLION times better than this bullshit.
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"Darkman" was a "comic book" movie, a cult success and definitely something that opened the eyes of a few producers to the fact that there was a potential market for a less mainstream, more fan-oriented style of movie.
(Besides, Burton's "Batman" came out in '89. If anything ignited the super hero movie frenzy, it was that. Even the "Superman" movies didn't spawn many imitators, I'm talking about the kind of comic book movie that is designed to appeal to a more comics-oriented underculture.)
Just because it happened before you were born doesn't make it irrelevant or incorrect. Grow into puberty, foolish little one, learn from it's lessons and respect your elders. Or go stick yer dick in a light socket, makes no real difference, you dipshit. -
And who gives a crap about Peter's parents, anyway? They didn't have anything to do with the comics, so why go there? Answer:this director Webb is totally clueless as to what makes Spidey work and obviously doesn't give a rat's ass about the source material. He should've just made 500 Days of Summer 2 and called it a career.
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Jul 23, 2011 11:01:38 AM CDT
oisin5199, the comicbook genre wasn't kickstarted by quality of movie
by dreamwriter
It was kickstarted by a comicbook movie that made so much damn money that all of Hollywood realized that they could get rich by making comicbook movies. And it was Spiderman that did that.
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Jul 23, 2011 11:02:57 AM CDT
Would you guys had been happier if Zoe Deschanel was playing Peter Parker?
by asimovlives
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He's like a reptile version of Spider-Man! How did they miss this?
My favorite bad guy when I was a kid. Still have the Mego doll....still has his lab coat! -
Jul 23, 2011 11:09:14 AM CDT
I can't believe they're gonna screw the Lizard just like they screwed Abomination
by deelzbub
two of the most well-defined bad guys in terms of appearance.
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Agreed 100%
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In fact, I probably mentioned in the trailer talkback that this was the only thing I was hoping for...
To me, this is a much greater issue than the silver booties or Spidey luge suit.
Maybe it's not too late to toss a CG labcoat on that motherfucker. -
But I haven't seen enough to form my own opinion just yet. They may be Hulk-ifying the Lizard a bit too much. But at the end of the day, Dr. Conners better not die. Spidey should find a cure or something, like in the comic. You never kill off a good villain.
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Jul 23, 2011 12:08:44 PM CDT
I JUST HOPE THE SAME ACTOR THAT PLAYED J. JONAH JAMESON IS STILL IN THIS SERIES
by meadowe
like Judi Dench (?) still played Q in the recent Bond films. His name escapes me right now but his portrayal was spot on imo. The trailer didn't float my boat but I didn't hate it either. I look forward to hearing friends' reviews about this. Watched Spider-Man 2 again recently and that was damn good...Spider-Man 3's crappiness made me almost forget how good it was. It ended (s2) on an uplifting note (with just a tad of uncertainty and dread from mj as Peter swung out to ny) but I loved the "Vindicated" song by Dashboard Confessional that played immediately after during the credits. I was unpleasantly surprised when the video didn't appear on the dvd, given that it was intercut with plenty of s2 scenes. Then again U2 had a nice video imo with "Hold Me..." that didn't appear in any of the Batman Forever video releases and that was filled with bf scenes and some coo' animation also.
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They dont need him wearing his "costume" just because its in the comics.
But i wouldve preferred a more lithe, humanoid monitor lizard deal. only slightly taller than the his human form. long ass tail, long ass tongue, scary teeth.
it would be cool to see him in full regalia (lab coat, street clothes) the first time he transforms - at least at first. after that, not necessary.
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. . . although I still think 2 was so DAMN overrated. That said, when the hell did everybody turn on them? Everybody's proclaiming this reboot this major breath of fresh air and Raimi's this huge screw-up...
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Spidey's got a great cast of villains, shame The Lizard isn't wearing the white lab coat though!
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Jul 23, 2011 12:47:39 PM CDT
he makes his big entrance from a girl's toilet, believe it or not
by meadowe
I knew they were going darker, but are they going to be hunting him down as if he were a suspect from law & order svu also?
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Yes, you read that right.
It's a mess, but it has moments of brilliance. The Spidey-Goblin rights are both terrific, the love triangle stuff works well, and the emo-Spidey sequence is fucking hilarious.
Flame on. -
I just cannot understand the love for it.
It's okay, but not great. It thinks it's smarter and weightier than it really is. -
I just find it a bit Corporate to reboot a series less than 10 years old...and with an ensemble that defines Wet Tween Cunny casting.
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Give it to your five year old and you get something you might hang on your refrigerator.
Give it to an artist and you get art.
Hating CGI for the sake of hating it makes as much sense as hating stop motion animation, Blue/Green screen, motion controlled graphics, rear screen projection and so on. If used appropriately, like any other technique it will work. I've never read anyone here complaining about all the cgi in Zodiac. -
Sorry but the Spider suit looks fucking horrible. The Batman/Twilight vibe is what really pissed me off. It's like they realized they'd piss everyone off with a reboot so they are attempting to bring in as many tweens as possible.
The Lizard has done it for me. I was looking forward to that. But we already have the Hulk. We don't need another one. Thanks a lot Webb you fucking hack.
I don't care how many wise cracks he makes... I love Emma Stone. But these are minor things in what looks like a total fuck up. Hoping this bombs so Marvel can take it back and make a real reboot with no pathetic attempt to rally the Twilight crowd. -
Jason Momoa/Khal Drogo. Shit, all he needs is a haircut. Perfect eyebrows for Kraven. lulz
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2008/10/08-15/jason-momoa-lisa-bonet-04.jpg -
= brilliant!
That would be a hell of a movie. loved the amazing spider man preview in front of Captain America, a film that rocked despite what certain trolls contended! -
I'm imagining across between the Goombas in the Super Mario Bros. film and Killer Croc in the Arkham Asylum game.
I love the cast for this, but the art design isn't working for me. The Spidey costume is awful. For some reason people used to criticise Raimi's suit - which was stunning in my book - but Webb''s looks even more manufactured; glossy and over-produced.
It's too late to fix the suit, but hopefully the disappointment with Lizard will see them redesign it. There is still 11 months to go, right? -
THIS is shit.
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Raimi fanboy or troll. I think the trailer stunk to high heaven and I hated Raimi's Spider-Man movies. In fact, I hated them so much that I got a HUGE kick out of the third, because I saw it as his final fuck you to Sony and the series. It was as if he woke up and realized what I already knew: the franchise sucked.
Three is enough. I don't need a reboot. I know Spider-Man's origins and I don't care to see it over and over again (numerous times from comics and now in film). If they had just jumped into the universe, as many have suggested, I might've given this a go, but I haven't liked a Spider-Man film yet and I no longer have the energy to try again. -
You whiney cunts are actually in the minority. It got 63% on Rottentomatoes and made what, a billion dollars?
Here's what you get you crybaby assholes. Twilight Spiderman with a giant rubber lizard from the Sci Fi channel, and a director that ripped off a video game trailer for an action scene. Eat shit. Fuck this movie. -
Fundamentally flawed with huge gaps in logic and complete contrivances. Sandman just happens to have a sick daughter, he just happens to kill Uncle Ben, he just happens to run into an accident. The symbiote just happens to land next to Peter, it just happens to attach itself to his bike. Harry just happens to get amnesia, his butler just happens to know what really happened to Norman... A couple of those coincidences would be acceptable - but all of them?!
Then you have all the stuff with Mary Jane. She's pissy because because Peter didn't tell her about a girl from college, all the while not telling him she was fired from her job!
The music numbers... the strutting... the awful flashback when he's fighting Venom, Venom screaming like a Raptor, "I forgive you". Sandman floating away to... I don't know where.
Making Sandman's killer was a disgrace to the origin. It totally absolves Peter of the guilt for Uncle Ben's death. It robs Peter of his drive and reason to be Spider-Man. It was a cheap way to force confrontation.
And the butler! Couldn't he have told Harry years ago so he didn't become an obsessive dick who lost half of his face? "He was killed by his own glider". How did he know? Couldn't Norman have been impaled on his glider by somebody else? Venom impaled Harry on his own glider!!!!
I love Raimi (anybody accusing him of being a one-trick pony should watch A Simple Plan). I like Spider-Man 1; Spider-Man 2 is in the top five Superhero films. The third is a stinker. Bad score, dodgy performances, weaker production design - even the credits are crap. There are a couple of decent bits - the Harry/Peter fights have their moments. The first fight with Sandman is good and has the lovely moment of him pouring sand out of his boots. But ultimately the performances and story are poorly executed. That said, Raimi won me back with Drag Me to Hell and I was on board for his Spider-Man 4. -
http://www.hypable.com/spiderman/2011/07/23/first-images-of-the-lizard-from-the-amazing-spider-man-hit-the-web/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=first-images-of-the-lizard-from-the-amazing-spider-man-hit-the-web
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http://www.hypable.com/spiderman/2011/07/23/first-images-of-the-lizard-from-the-amazing-spider-man-hit-the-web/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=first-images-of-the-lizard-from-the-amazing-spider-man-hit-the-web
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http://www.hypable.com/spiderman/2011/07/23/first-images-of-the-lizard-from-the-amazing-spider-man-hit-the-web/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=first-images-of-the-lizard-from-the-amazing-spider-man-hit-the-web
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If I remember correctly from reading damn near everything I could get my hands on for X-Men(2000), Hollywood and Marvel were watching X-Men very closely for box office numbers.
The Spider-Man property was still tied up in court for rights or something. While Blade was considered a success, the $75 million X-Men made in it's opening weekend is more than likely responsible for opening the doors once again for superhero/comic book movies, after Schumakers terrible Batman and Robin shut it years earlier. -
Jul 23, 2011 5:33:09 PM CDT
Very accurate statement v3d. Well said. As far as the leaked pic goes
by rsanta74
I mean I GUESS it does look like Lizard, but it kinda reminds you why some characters probably shouldn't make the jump to the big screen. As has already been stated, he does look like a cross between a Jurassic Park dino and Koopa from the old Super Mario Bros movie.
Honestly, they should've gone with Kraven. I keep on saying it. Lizard is a step down from the likes of Goblin and Doc Ock. Kraven, in some ways, is very much a step up. -
http://news.yahoo.com/spider-man-villain-ifans-arrested-comic-con-204500941.html
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yeah, but that shit never would have never gotten greenlit without X-Men. And X-Men made money because it was good and audiences responded. Ever since Batman and Robin, studios (and audiences) stayed far away from superhero films because of the cheese factor and they mostly tanked. Singer brought it back and prepped the audiences for Spider-Man. So Singer deserves the credit. Once again, everyone seems to have short memories.
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I hope they give him a little harmonica to play. Harsh to judge it on an angled low-res shot of a screen, but it does look rubbish. He looks more dinosaur than lizard.
I actually think that The Lizard can make an interesting story if handled correctly. There is a lot of pathos in it, and ethical questions about the role of science. You have the obvious parallels with Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde and the questions of human nature.
The animated show in the 90s had some good episodes with the character and contrasted him with what Peter could have become.
But if the character becomes a lumbering mass of CGI you lose a lot of the connection. Why not go similar to Davey Jones and build the CGI around Ifans? Have him wear some prosthetics and extend/enhance in post. And animatronics in other area. I loved Raimi's use of practical tentacles for Doc Ock, and they could - maybe have - do the same for Lizard's tail and arms.
Yes, of course you will need a fully CGI Lizard in some areas, but looking at that picture you could easily have used an animatronic head.
Still, 11 months left, they might fix it. Although with a rumoured low-budget ($80 million? That's $10 million more than Funny People and $40 million less than How Do You Know?) maybe the FX will be low-ended? -
Jul 23, 2011 6:03:21 PM CDT
X-Men - and to a lesser extent, Blade - laid the foundations
by the_motorcycle_boy
But Raimi built the house. If Spider-Man had been poor and flopped, then there's no way we would have had the huge wave of comic book films we've gotten. Studios would have pulled back and made low-budget features at best. No Batman Begins, no Iron Man, no The Dark Knight, no Avengers.
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waaaah waaaaaah wahhhhhhhhh
It wasn't that bad. All the people that bitch about how terrible Spiderman 3 is just have a huge stick up their ass if you ask me. So it has problems, so fucking what. It's better than this lame ass Twilight Spiderman we're getting with a big rubber lizard.
3 villains are too many? Oh yeah? You think that's bad? How about 1 cheesy as fuck villain. Enjoy. -
I've gotten over it and made my peace with Raimi. Fair enough if you like it - there are some decent elements - just don't tell me it was a good film. At least try and counter some of my points.
I'm not thrilled by this reboot. I maintain they should have just started with Peter already as Spider-Man and at college. Gone with something like Spider-Man: Blue and opened mid/post-fight. The cast is really good, and there is a promising director, so hopefully something good will come of this. At the least it probably won't have Emma Stone awkwardly singing a stage song, or have Garfield doing jazz hands, or reveal that The Lizard actually killed Uncle Ben.
I wish The Lizard was rubber! Boglins > CGI goop. -
Jul 23, 2011 6:30:05 PM CDT
"All the people that bitch about how terrible Spiderman 3 is just have a huge stick up their ass if you ask me." In all honesty, i cannot disagree with that statement.
by asimovlives
I don't share your distrust of the new Spider-Man, winona_ryders_pussy_juice. But i do think that Spider-Man 3, for all it's flaws, has bene trerribly and unjustly malinged in here. The bashign that movie gets seems more like one of those AICN dogma stuff that people embrace without thinking. Do i love Spidey 3? No. do i find it mor flawed then the second movie? Oh yeah! Do i have any hurry to revisit it? No. Do i think it's a terrible movie, or a bad movie? No i do not. Do i think it has been mindless bashed for not very good reasons? Yes i do.
And what do i think of the people who think that Spidey 3 is worst then Abrams Trek? I think they are fucking mental, that's what. -
there were too many coincidences in a fantasy/comic book movie? so what, there's always plot holes. Peter strutted down the street in metrosexual fashion? so what? It didn't bother me, it was silly and campy. Big fucking deal. It was funny.
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It was fucking shit. You have a big stick up your ass if you like that film...
That was exhausting. As I said, most films have some kind of conveniences otherwise they would end after 10 minutes - i.e. the spider bite probably would send Peter into a coma and he would die. That would be a rather weak film though. But just because it's a "fantasy" movie doesn't mean it shouldn't have a good and tight script.
The film was choc with unlikeable characters with poor motivations. Uncle Ben being killed by Sandman ruined the thematics of the trilogy. Cheap, soap opera drama.
You are throwing The Amazing Spider-Man on the fire based by two minutes a handful of photos. There is less evidence that it will be worse than Spider-Man 3. There are 130 minutes of evidence that prove the latter is rubbish.
@Asimov
Nobody here has swayed my thinking on Spider-Man 3 nor any other film. I can cultivate my own thoughts and opinions.
I'd rank it as a bigger disappointment than Star Trek because I actually expected it to be good. We'd had one good film from Raimi and one great one, and then he just dropped the ball. He and Ivan took on too much writing, and the studio foisted Venom upon him.
As I said, there are a few good scenes (birth of Sandman; the first fight with Sandman) but there is so much melodrama (cheesy soap opera stuff) with the amnesia, the love triangle, Sandman's dying daughter...
But, hey, it's my four-year-old cousin's favourite of the three. Y'know, for kids! -
Jul 23, 2011 7:51:36 PM CDT
O-M-G, it REALLY IS the Goombas from that sh!tstorm of a live-action Mario movie...
by boober
Note to Producers and backers of this Spidey reboot...
TWEAK/REDO the Lizard or you are f*cktarded. Not a troll...the truth. -
Jul 23, 2011 7:52:19 PM CDT
I wouldn't say that SM3 was terrible. It just had tons of problems
by rsanta74
What COULD have been great?
1. Topher Grace could have been a solid Venom. He doesn't fit the comic version, but he certainly could have been an all too solid "Dark Spider-Man" - on having taken the road less traveled.
2. Sandman, while a fairly boring character in the comics, was humanized in the early part of the flick. That had potential.
3. We've also been promised an epic payoff to the Goblin story. That had fans pretty darn excited too.
4. The concept of seeing the symbiote's influence on Peter should have been exciting too.
Where dd the above stuff go wrong?
1. Topher Grace did a solid, if not spectacular, job with what was given to him. He was great as Eddie, but the dialog given to Venom was cheesy and he had nowhere else to go but cartoony with it.
2. All of that human drama for Sandman went nowhere. They built this story about how he was doing it for his sick kid, but then forgot to finish that thread. Like Eddie, once Sandman became empowered, he became a cartoon bad guy. His actual story got pushed away.
3. There was no payoff o the Goblin story. Instead of becoming Hobgoblin of Green Goblin, Harry became the XGames Goblin. On top of that, the promise of this epic confrontation disappeared once they give Harry temporary amnesia. It was nice to see Franco play nice again, but it just chewed up too much time that could've been used in the Spider/Goblin war.
4. Well.... We DID see the influence of the symbiote on Peter. Too bad it was kinda goofy. He became a floppy haired douchey emo who was acutely aware that he was a floppy haired douchey emo. They didn't go dark with him so much as they went comically anti-nice.
How they just mess up beyond the failed promises?
1. For the most part, I love what Raimi did with 1 & 2. However, all the worst of Raimi's work was on display. All of the less endearing camp and cornball stuff from Xena and such reared its ugly head here. Seriously. Google Image the phrase "dancing peter parker meme" and the stinky cheese problem is right there.
2. Like many aging superhero franchises, they thought that more was better. It wasn't enough to have Sandman. They had to add Venom and XGames Goblin too. One villain per film should be enough. You don't stick John McClane Hans Gruber Jr, Agent Smith, and Dr. Evil. It leaves no room for plot or characterization.
3. Spider-Man's origin was fine as-is. You don't build up Sandman's origin by tearing down Peter's. Create something new if you're at a loss. Don't retcon him in out of convenience. It's lazy.
4. There are only so many times you can kill off Spider-Man's rogues before the police are start looking at him funny.
5. MJ being Spider-Man's own Princess Peach yet again felt a little tired.
6. Gwen Stacy was a waste, not to mention being miscast in the first place.
Yeah. There was some good stuff. What did Spider-Man 3 have going for it?
1. Some of the fight scenes were pretty darn cool. The pre-Venom half, where Spidey fought Sandman, had some memorable action sequences.
2. The "birth" of Sandman was well animated and creatively conceived. There was real emotion there, as he held himself together for his daughter.
3. Love of hate Franco as a person all you want, but he turned out one of the most consistent performances of the film. Same thing with JK Simmons.
4. The black costume was a thing of beauty. It could've maybe been more awesome without the silvery webbing, but it was stunning still.
5. Eddie's transformation into Venom and preceding plea to God to kill Peter Parker was so unbelievably true to the spirit of the comic that it completely clicked.
Like I said, Spider-Man 3 wasn't terrible. It was definitely no Batman & Robin. It gets bonus points for not being THAT bad. There were redeeming qualities to the movie, especially the first half. However, it just fell all apart somewhere into through the "Dark Peter" thread and never quite recovered. Unlike the 1st two Spider-Man movies, you're probably more inclined to flip the channel when it plays on cable.
I've got no real prejudice against Amazing Spider-Man. I can't judge a movie I haven't even seen. What I will say is that.... I wasn't a fan of the trailer. I'm not a fan of retelling the origin. I think that the costume is balls. I don't think that building his parents in is necessary. The Lizard could go either way at this point. (Would've preferred more of a giant iguana/croc look instead of a Jurassic Koopa thing though.) STILL..... Didn't we all get our knickers into a twist over X-Men First Class for no reason? That movie looked like an abomination early on. It turned out to be, imo, the best superhero movie of the summer.
I'm willing to give ASM a chance. I was prejudiced against Nolan undoing what I loved so much about Burton's Batman, but I ended up liking it as much for different reasons. As long as they handle the property with respect, I think that they'll be okay.
My only legitimate concerns are that..... 1) instead of rebooting, they maybe should've kept the party going 007 style. New actor. New Chapter. & 2) they should've chosen a different bad guy. Lizard is visually interesting and maybe scary, but Kraven would've been a much more formidable foe. Even Electro or Mysterio could've been nice for that visual pop. -
I don't want to get into a long-winded debate about Spiderman 3. I liked it, you didn't, there's nothing to debate. I think people that bring up the "dark" Peter sequences as a game-breaker have a stick up their ass. I don't know why you're surprised by the silly dancing, etc. It kinda fits with Raimi's style. It's a 2 1/2 hour movie, how does 10 minutes ruin the film?
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cry some more. Jesus. The action scenes with him and Spiderman were fucking brilliant. You will NOT get anything as cool as that in this new 80 million spiderman, I fucking promise you.
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Jul 23, 2011 8:05:23 PM CDT
RE:It's a 2 1/2 hour movie, how does 10 minutes ruin the film?
by rsanta74
Give my your dinner. Lemme take crap into only one corner of the plate. Will you eat the rest of the meal?
Not surprised by Raimi injecting the silly dancing. It IS what he does. HOWEVER, we've already seen that he can do superhero movies that don't overdose on camp. His work on Darkman was superb. IMO, more that Spider-Man 2, Darkman represents exactly how good a Raimi helmed superhero movie could be. That's why Spider-Man 3, while not irredeemable, was a fairly significant disappointment. Personally, it hurt to some fans because we KNEW that Raimi was capable of something greater. -
Jul 23, 2011 8:14:04 PM CDT
RE: The action scenes with him and Spiderman were fucking brilliant.
by rsanta74
No. They were not.
First off, the costume was a problem. Practical? Yes. Silly? An even more resounding yes.
Second, the VFX does get a little... iffy... now and then in that initial fight. It looks awesome at times, but feels a little rushed looking at others. I'm not going to debate that here, but that's my opinion on that.
Third, there was this BIG build up to the Harry VS Peter story that started in #1. The resolution to that story didn't click here. It was nice that he and Pete finally made amends, but I'm not so sure that it felt as is if this was exactly what they were supposed to have been building up to. The amnesia also broke the momentum on the whole revenge plot story.
The fight scenes felt fresh at times because of the addition of the sword, but they also felt just as stale at times.
I also didn't fully buy that Harry didn't die from that fall. Granted, I thought that Pete should've died when he fell in that alley in Spider-Man 2 and that it was cartoony that he didn't, but it stood out to me here a little more.
That Harry had ANY fight experience in this movie, much less enough to take on Peter, was mind boggling. He was a total n00b, yet managed to hold his own even when Pete was actively fighting. That bothered me. -
"The action scenes with him and Spiderman were fucking brilliant." I don't think so. If you think that was brilliant, your knowledge of film must be severely limited. I honestly feel sorry for Franco and Maguire. That must be disappointing working all day in front green screens.
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It's reminiscent of Batman Begins and that turned out for the better in my opinion.
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Better than Batman & Robin and Batman Forever? DEFINITELY! Better than Batman or Batman Returns? Yes and no. Begins was better in some very key areas, but not as good in others. There are strong cases to be made for each film. It's not like you have to love one and hate the other. It's not even like you can say that one was good "for its time." There's still some stuff in the original Burton movies that is sorely missed in the newer Nolan ones. Likewise, the Burton movies could've used some of what Nolan brought to the table.
If they could somehow mash up the gothic world and master detective Batman of the Burton movies with the epic scale and real world take on the villains of Nolan's movies... I'd be one happy camper. -
Jul 23, 2011 9:50:18 PM CDT
Come on, there's no way realisticly the lab-coat will work.
by ganymede3010
Think about it, you have a scrawny unimposing Dr. in a lab-coat. You actually expect that lab coat to fit him after he gains 400+ pounds? Hell, there's shirts I can no longer fit once I got 20 pounds heavier.
Come on people, use some common sense here. This isn't a comic book nor cartoon. -
Here comes the worst Spiderman movie yet. Shit costume, a Hulk Lizard, a brunette Aunt May and a horrid Spider costume. That's what we know. Just imagine all the shit bombs you DON'T know about. They are legion you can be sure.
It's gonna be funny seeing just how bad this one turns out. Keep giving them shit, studios. Audiences and fans don't know any better and they'll slurp up anything you put in front of them as long as it says Spiderman on the poster. -
Hulk pants I can buy. They have to cover the hulk nutsacks. But a giant coat that somehow magically stretched 5 times bigger, no way.
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Too soon for a redo of the origin...
What's funny is I showed the trailer to my nephews today and the youngest (4) said, "we have this movie already", but then the older one (6) correct him by saying, "no, this is another guy who gets bit by a spider and becomes another spider-man" I knew then that a reboot that's so similar, and so soon, is just a terrible, horrible, idea.
If the lizard doesn't give me the comic book coming to life chills I got from all the avengers movie, this film is dead to me. -
Jul 23, 2011 11:14:37 PM CDT
Rhys Ifans got arrested at Comic Con because he went into a rage when....
by wackybantha
.....he found out that the CGI Lizard did not have a lab coat.
I beg the filmmakers.....
give him a LAB COAT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Otherwise.......
The World will end.
:'( -
THE GOOD: saw the trailer today with CAPTAIN AMERICA and personally I thought Garfield looked great. I thought he looked more like Parker from the classic Lee/Ditko comics than Maguire ever did. As for the rest of the cast, they seem basically fine.
THE BAD: I knew this was a reboot...I figured there would be some flashback or tip of the hat to the origin, to reacquaint people with it, but I wasn't expecting this to be a TOTAL origin film.
Gotta agree with so many others here. It's not like the Raimi/Maguire films are THAT old -- certainly NOT to the point that most of today's audience doesn't remember them. I mean, give me a break -- they're TNT or FX or whatever every other freakin' weekend!
Seriously, as I said, a tip of the hat...some minor flashback...fine. But an all-new redoing of the origin from scratch really seems like total overkill, and I'm already willing to bet that people will...
(1) probably see this, simply out of a geeky love for the character, but will also...
(2) come out of the theater saying "WTF? Why did I have to sit through the origin all over again? I KNOW he was bitten by a spider. We ALL know that! So just treat it like James Bond...plug in a new guy...give me a new villain....and just get to the fucking action already!" -
People need to stop freaking the fuck out about his appearance and the lab coat and shit. They saw a few seconds of Lizard footage so why don't we reserve final judgement until the movie is released. Who knows, they could nail it in the actual film. Plus a non-CGI Lizard would probably end up like those monsters from Zathura which would be lame. I mean they look alright but been there, done that.
Plus, CG and live-acti -
I was saying CGI and live-action mix have come a long way...Avatar anyone? The scene where Neytiri holds Jakes human body is perfection.
And budget shouldn't hinder it too much. That movie Skyline had a 10$ million budget and the creatures looked fairly real, far from sci-fi channel shit. Yeah the movie was a piece of shit but not really due to the CGI. -
The 90`s had the best children shows ever. Netflix has the entire 90s spiderman show and its still as good as it gets for spiderman in visual media. Also the shows first episode is the lizard and the origin isnt for like 5 episodes. Its in a montage during the opening credits with one of the greatest theme songs ever.
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Jul 24, 2011 5:40:34 AM CDT
Here's what i say about Spidey 3: I deeply believe the stuff nobody likes about the movie was due to the studio interference and their arrogant know-it-all attitude that they know more about making a movie then professional filmmakers.
by asimovlives
All the wrongs in SPIDEY 3 can be traced to the typical attitude of accountants telling filmmakers how to make a movie.
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Jul 24, 2011 6:30:42 AM CDT
There Never Was An "Emo" Sequence In Spiderman 3; Emo's Aren't Smarmy and Arrogant, They're Mopey and Sulky
by neonfrisbee
Nah, see, you got it all wrong. He wasn't supposed to be "emo" he was supposed to be this smarmy, arrogant, egotstical prick; like some sleazy Las Vegas tool who doe way too much coke and doesn't realize everyone thinks he's a jerk. The only thing about that scene (which I thought was hilarious too) that seems "emo" is his hair.
Emos don't do the pelvic thrust on the street to chicks walking by, they sulk in a corner and cry and write bad poetry about how no one will ever love or understand them and it's all mom and dad's fault. -
Jul 24, 2011 6:32:25 AM CDT
^In Other Words, This Latest Unwanted Iteration Is The Emo One, The Spidey For Twihards: THE EMOTASTIC SPIDER-DOUCHE!
by neonfrisbee
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Jul 24, 2011 6:42:17 AM CDT
All the wrongs in SPIDEY 3 can be traced to the typical attitude of accountants telling filmmakers how to make a movie.
by the_motorcycle_boy
As much as I love Raimi, I doubt he was forced to make Sandman Uncle Ben's killer, or give Harry amnesia, or have Dunst sing, or have Spidey snap his fingers to a jazz beat.
Venom was the part foisted upon him - Sam wanted The Vulture. He and Sandman were going to be cellmates and hatch a plot to kill Spidey. -
Much like Monsters, the directors are FX whizzes and were able to do work themselves. If they weren't able to use their own skills, it would have added millions on to both budgets.
I agree that scene in Avatar is magnificent, but it was a hugely expensive film, and the scene lasted for 30 seconds. Also it was James Cameron! Spidey is going to be in contact with the Lizard for a longer length of time than that.
We're still early in on Spider-Man's schedule, so hopefully they will improve the Lizard's look yet. -
He proved it with Human Nature. He seems like quite the weirdo himself actually.
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He just had to stick it to the fans who wanted to see him and to Arad who told him to make the movie about him. No, he didn't. He didn't like the character or didn't understand him google him or pick up a few comics. Raimi chose to be a dick about the whole thing instead of doing the best he could.
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I try to keep an open mind when it comes to movie adaptations - I try to wait to see how things work onscreen and try to avoid being swayed too much, one way or another, by pre-screening leaks and such, but...
I have to say my gut-preference is for a really old school Lizard...yeah, lab coat, black T, ripped pants, etc...with more than a modicum of intelligence to him.
Just saying. -
NO interest in this reboot at all.
Enjoy it all.
BTW, Venom, a character I hate, was prob the best thing about Spiderman3 (besides blonde Bryce). Problem was they had no time to develop him because he was shoehorned into the script that was already in trouble.
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are no worse than the ones in the other two films. I mean when Peter becomes Spider-Man, his best friend's dad also just happens to become an unstoppable super villain too at the same time.
Are we also to believe that the next villain also happens to know Peter and his friend Harry, who is funding him? The same Harry who wants revenge on Spider-Man, who happens to be his best friend? And this guy also happens to have his accident, with giant mechanical arms, at an event where Peter is present?
Where were all these super villains before Spider-Man? Did no one have a freak accident in New York and become a super hero or villain before then? Just within those few years whilst Peter is Spider-Man?
All I'm trying to say is the plots to all three films are ridiculous - but just go with it. They're all entertaining and if you let the weird coincidences get in the way then you're really not going to enjoy them, are you? After all, if all that's too weird for you, then you'd never make it through any of the comics of which it's based - I hear those also have aliens, space travel and parallel universes. -
As I have said - you can allow some coincidences because otherwise the story wouldn't happen. I.e. the spider bite should kill Peter, but then we'd have no movie.
So, you accept him becoming Spider-Man, and you accept Osborn becoming the Goblin because otherwise we have no villain. You can dig that. The villain being is best friend's dad is arguably contrived, but it's the source material.
The problem is when you have nothing but coincidences - that is shoddy writing, my friends. Spider-Man 3 is so convoluted and contrived and it's one of the major flaws of the film.
A few coincidences would have been fine and expected (Sandman falls into the test just as the scientists are starting the experiment) but when you have so many (Sandman killed Uncle Ben; the police know this for ages but only tell him now when he has to fight Sandman; Gwen Stacey is in his class at school, she dated Peter's new rival who just happens to see them out together, who just happens to become Venom; Harry gets amnesia, his butler finally tells him the truth at just the moment Peter needs his help... I could go on) you are sinking the film.
I enjoyed the first two Spider-Man films (I loved the second; I saw it twice in the cinema at a time when I never watched a film twice on the big screen). I bought it on DVD day of release, I watched every morsel on those discs, so I think that I must have enjoyed it...
I also enjoy the comics, and the old cartoons. I don't have an aversion to "weird" stuff - just shitty writing. I also have an aversion to condescending talkbackers - hello ; ) -
Isnt this based on the ultimate Spiderman? Most of the villians in it are hulked out, including the Green goblin.
And the Lizard is as well I would assume. So I would expect the same from this movie. Logical dude.
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