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The Behind the Scenes Pic of the Day believes whatever doesn’t kill you simply makes you… stranger.
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with today’s Behind the Scenes Pic!
What better way to kick off my week of Comic-Con travel than with a picture from one of my all time favorite comic book movies?
I think I may love Richard Donner’s Superman slightly more, but over the last few years I’ve seen The Dark Knight not only age well, but get even better. It’s becoming a security blanket movie for me, a world that I just like to revisit. Movies like Casablanca, The Big Lebowski, Jaws, Raiders, Rocky Horror, Wizard of Oz, Willy Wonka, Star Wars, etc have that same effect on me, so I’m happy to have another one to add to the queue.
So, with Comic-Con looming, let’s have The Joker and the Geek kick it off.
Thanks to David Sargeant for sending this along. Click to embiggen! Enjoy!
If you have a behind the scenes shot you’d like to submit to this column, you can email me at quint@aintitcool.com.
Check out tomorrow’s behind the scenes pic or Mad Dog Tannen will put one between yer eyes!
-Quint
quint@aintitcool.com
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Click here to visit the complete compilation of previous Behind the Scenes images, Page One
Click here to visit the complete compilation of previous Behind the Scenes images, Page Two!
Readers Talkback
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July 19, 2011, 1:49 p.m. CST
TDK is great movie but it worked it's best the first time I saw it
by Proman1984
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...bitches.
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...damn.
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I like how Nolan, a guy that has no second unit, let Ledger direct these parts of the movie. Heath is missed every fucking day.
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Trevor Goodchild should sue.
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umm, not even a little bit...in fact it's probably the bluray I watch the least, movie is beyond overrated, not to say it's a bad film, it's not, it's a very good one, but it's also not what many make it out to be...I actually think Batman Begins is a vastly superior film...cool pic though, Ledger should have laid off the pills
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Knowing that despite Joker's last speech in TDK, he's never going to be back in this series. RIP Heath. You were an awesome actor dude.
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And people are still doing that 'First' bullshit?
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And I still love Inception. I don't get the Christopher Nolan backlash. I can understand people not liking his style and story telling choices, that's fine. What I don't get is the outright hatred just because so many people like his films. I'm looking forward to The Dark Knight Rises; and I'm laughing at people who think they've worked out how it will be a bomb based on a teaser trailer. How jaded have movie fans become that we now demand more out of teaser trailers? It's a "teaser". It's just a very brief collection of partial sequences to let you know that the production is underway; and the film will be released next summer. In that regard, the TDKR teaser told us all we really needed to know.
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July 19, 2011, 2 p.m. CST
Ledgers performance ages well. Bales batmans voice on the other hand.
by knowthyself
Did not.
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RIP Twilight Zone column
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Inception, Batman Begins, Memento and The Prestige are all amazing films and Nolan is a talented filmmaker, doesn't mean that TDK isn't overrated
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...still can't believe the Ledge is gone...
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I loved The Dark Knight when I first saw it, but I find it laggy and drawn-out with multiple viewings. There are certain SCENES that I love to watch over and over again, but the movie as a whole was best viewed only once. I much prefer rewatching Batman Begins, even though I think TDK was a "better" movie.
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I don't get the backlash either. Then again I enjoy entertaining movies and don't react against something just because it's popular. Anyone that doesn't think TDK isn't a supremely well made piece of entertainment is kidding themselves. I love rewatching it. It has a rare energy pulsing through it and was one of the best movie-going experiences I'd had in years. Even old ladies in the audience were on the edge of their seats.
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July 19, 2011, 2:16 p.m. CST
The joker is in the next movie as a different actor or take this entire series and fuck yourself with it.
by UltraTron
The whole fucking point of rebooting the fucking thing was to do it right. Right means- the fucking joker is behind the scenes like fucking Spector in the bond films. A new actor must carry the torch. It can EASILY be done. Ever see doctor who? The character is the same no matter who plays him. It's a real shame that he couldn't handle his shit in real life. Time for a new joker.
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Well, maybe not. Maybe that goes to LOTR or something but talk about a movie that just blew everything away. It was an event. Not just a movie you want to see but a movie you have to see. The midnight showing I went to was probably the best I've been to. You could feel the excitement in the air, it was fucking intense.
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I haven't watched the Blu Ray in over a year, but even when I do it's only for Ledger's performance.
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Love how they let him direct and shoot those camcorder scenes. AND he did it in full makeup as well!
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July 19, 2011, 2:19 p.m. CST
They really should fix Bale's voice on future DVD release
by Jake Pantlin
Just tweak it a bit and bring it down a notch. theyw ent crazy in the studio changing it. I'm sure they still have the original audio. It should have been the same voice modulation as Batmn Begins.
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And head to head with Bale - especially the interrogation - is awesome. I admit TDK is not unflawed but the things I love about it outweigh a few logic problems. It has palpable menace, which is VERY hard to get in a comic movie without a side smirk.
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July 19, 2011, 2:25 p.m. CST
What the hell does "overated" mean anyway. Its a bullshit call.
by SydBarretsMyDad
Did you like the film? Great! Wait a second, someone else seems to have 'liked' the film more than me!!! HOLD ON, A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE LIKED IT MORE THAN ME!!! HOW DO I EXPRESS MY DISTAIN FOR THIS INCREASED MARGIN OF LIKE?!?!?! OH MY GOD!! OVERATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid. And pointless. btw. You BOTH liked the film, so shut the fuck up.
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1. batman crushing an ambulance to a complete stop without breaking his legs and spine. He appears heavy as shit. Like his gear adds a ton. Is he fucking robocop? Robocop can crush a vehicle like that. 2. The women so far. 3. No fight scenes worth FUCK and/or SHIT. 4. No fight scenes worth FUCK and/or SHIT. 5. Jesus fucking Christ get woo ping or something
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Is National Lampoon's Vacation
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Just like people "hate" Justin Bieber.
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July 19, 2011, 2:31 p.m. CST
I can watch the opening bank heist on BluRay on a continuous
by openthepodbaydoorshal
loop, that sequence is a beaut in cinematography, editing, pace, and Ledger's delivery of that line (and love William Fitchner's cameo).
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Overrated is a cop-out used by douches who can't think of anything original to say.
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I've always wondered whether or not Trevor Goodchild's utterance of that line is the first in recorded history. I doubt it though, I don't think it's a particularly difficult line to come up with. It could probably be found elsewhere before 1995.
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Only watched the Blu-ray for the first time yesterday. I still love it. There's some wonderful performances in it. Storywise, It raised the bar two-fold for subsequent comic book films.
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Doctor Who isn't the same with a different actor, they take it in different directions depending on the type of 'Doctor' the actor is playing (compare Ecclestone's to Tennant's Doctor, wildly different). Also, if the Joker can't be in the background pulling strings in the next one, that's the League of Shadow's job.
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Classic film. Never realized the reporter was hanging upside down. Now I got anther reason to watch this movie again.
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July 19, 2011, 2:35 p.m. CST
re: raskolinov_was_framed: "Not worshipping TDK does not = Hating Nolan"
by jimmy rabbitte
Who said it did? I just said that people seem to have created a whole new hobby around talking trash about him simply because he has gotten popular and The Dark Knight was so successful. Nolan has a particular style and I understand that not everybody is going to like it; and like I said before, I'm fine with that. I was mostly commenting on how some Nolan detractors are already panning the film based on a teaser trailer that didn't tell us much other than the movie is in production and will be out next summer.
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Aged well? It's only 3 years old.
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It's been a great collaboration. He took my favorite childhood hero to new heights and imposed a tone that is appropriate and enjoyable. I never get tired of watching TDK, and can't wait for the next installment. I'm surprised at all the ntipicking this film gets. It's the perfect combination of summer popcorn movies and intelligent thrillers. I do agree that people love to hate on it because its popular. If you don't like it then fine, but don't let popularity influence your view of a film.. that's just shallow. If it's good it's good. This is a great BTS photo.
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July 19, 2011, 2:40 p.m. CST
Instead of doing with a second unit crew, Ledger actually shot the video IN CHARACTER
by Ricardo
THIS is why Nolan gets my money.
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the ending in the office building?
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I was a Chris Nolan fan BEFORE Batman Begins. Seriously, Memento is amazing, and Insomnia is Robin Williams' best dramatic performance.
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It tried like gangbusters to *look* as though it was deadly serious and making hyper-intelligent, tragic plot choices, but there wasn't that much substance to it, really. There was atmosphere, a feeling of gravity, an edginess about the whole thing that made you feel like you were watching something meaningful, but that's it. We've seen the "tragic hero sacrificing self/getting run out of town for the greater good" angle hundreds of times throughout history. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't special. All the other plot threads were fairly mundane and not very rewarding or developed. For me, the most interesting and gripping thing about the film was the contrast between Batman and the Joker being set up as order vs. chaos (or anarchy). The constant struggle by Batman to maintain order, the constant unraveling of expectations when things seemed settled. They took it far enough that it really started to feel dangerous, that it had the potential to be something truly unnerving. But they lost it in the last act, with the stupid street fight, the overturning semi, the dumb smirk of Bat-gadgetry (and immensely dopey scene with Bale & Freeman). It abandoned ambition and became a cliche, and a not-very-well-executed one at that. Part 3 with Ledger could have finally been something truly special and majestic, something the films haven't managed to achieve otherwise. I hope they do it with TDKR, but I don't have much confidence in the pieces they have on the board right now.
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you are joking right? if anything else,TDK is not aging well since after repetitive views you finally realize the major flaws of the movie. But it does remain a great cinematic experience with Ledger's Joker being the god in this,that can not be denied.
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WRONG.It was Avatar ,boy.FACT.
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I also thought memento was fantastic, and Insomnia very underrated. It's true that there's a certain amount of gimmickry in both - probably in all films, for that matter - but I thought it worked better in those films than in the Bat-films.
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July 19, 2011, 3:05 p.m. CST
*and I was very silently dribbling tears out of my face at the end of DARK KNIGHT*
by KilliK
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA BWA BWA BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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July 19, 2011, 3:07 p.m. CST
Though DK was good, Begins was a much better, far more fun of a popcorn movie ... Thank you for that eloquent deconstruction; clearly FUN equals QUALITY, just look at Transformers!
by golden tribw
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July 19, 2011, 3:08 p.m. CST
ricarleite4, did he shoot 'in character', or did they just not use the footage of him in character?
by kevred
I'm wondering if they planned to show him in character, filming - and shot footage accordingly - but didn't end up using it. I like your idea more, but just wondering.
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Sorry, it had just **gargantuan** plot holes. And Bale doesn't even register as Bruce Wayne. It's not bad, but by no means the great film its supporters believe it is.
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July 19, 2011, 3:09 p.m. CST
DK has "aged well?" It is only 3 years old!!!!! Wake me in 10-15 more years.
by Jerry Piper
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on that fat batman guy and at some point he turns the camera on himself? is this picture from that scene or is it from some other?
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Batman Begins is a better film. TDK had a better villian but that does not make it better on its own. The last scene in Begins with Bats and Gordon on the roof talking is better than anything in TDK. Chills.
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when Wayne fucked up that beautiful Lamborghini.
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...you were black in the first Batman movie, and then you were Tommy Lee Jones in the third. WTF happened?
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Keaton was much more interesting...there was madness behind his eyes, a quirky, unhinged obsessive personality surrounded by opulance, he looked lost, lonely, cut off, possibly psychotic, his performance had all those things...there's nothing behind Bale's eyes except his dour off screen personality..
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July 19, 2011, 3:23 p.m. CST
Except Batman isn't supposed to be a stunted madman with fake muscles
by Mattman
He's a calculating, controlled vigilante with a profound sense of justice. Also, he's tall and has muscles. Kinda like Bale.
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How could it be otherwise when you have fifteen year old Nolanoids, who think they're intellectual but really know nothing of cinema, saying stupid things like it's 'The Godfather Part II of supehero films', or rating it as the third best movie of all time on the oh-so-not-credible IMDB top 250 movies of all time list, above the collected works of Kurosawa and David Lean or Citizen Kane (the same could be said about Inception, too)? Yes, it's a good movie. At times, very good. But let's be real here.
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Oh wait. I get it.
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This phrase has been hugely misinterpreted (and what teen compares anything to Godfather Part II?). It means it's the best comic book sequel ever made, and surpassed the original. And I completely concur with that statement. It does not mean it's on the level of Godfather Part II.
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More Dark Knight BTSPOTD please.
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July 19, 2011, 3:47 p.m. CST
STILL MY FAVORITE MOVIE, AND A LITTLE TRIVIA ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR SCENE
by Meadowe
Christopher Nolan let Heath do what he wanted in this scene since he loved the threatening video sent earlier. Anyway it's gonna be an uphill battle for Tom Hardy in tdkr, I trust it will be a good portrayal of Bane and tdkr will be good in general, but idk how it will fare against Heath's Joker since it will be compared to that performance until the bat cows come home.
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Theatricality. It's in tune with the character and canon. Those who don't appreciate the purpose of it...suck cock by choice.
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and I still can't register that the sloppy James Cagney-speaking guy in rags was supposed to be Joker. Perhaps the next Batman will clear things up... Can't wait to see what WB does with the bat after Nolan is done with it...
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that expression has nothing to do with TDK being a better movie than the original. I have read many posts from the Nolanoids in both the aicn talkbacks and the imdb forums,and a lot of them use this expression with this meaning: that TDK is the first and best mature movie ever made based on a super-hero comic and as a crime drama with superheroes is as good as the GF2 which is considered the best crime drama ever made. I am not misinterpreting the phrase,the Nolanoids are very clear on how they use it. Besides there are other super-hero movie sequels which,according to the fanbase, are better than the original films like Spider-Man 2 or Super-Man 2 or Batman Returns. Especially with Spider-Man 2 ,which until TDK it was considered by the fans as the best super-hero movie ever made,the GF2 phrase was never used to describe this specific achievement. The GF2 phrase is nothing more than a very exaggerating compliment given by the delusional Nolanoids to a very overrated movie.
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As someone who DOES suck cock by choice -- I resent that sentiment.
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July 19, 2011, 3:53 p.m. CST
As great as TDK is I tend to forget how amazing begins also is
by RedBull_Werewolf
TDK is always the one i rmember most but when i throw on begins i instantly rmember how overlooked it gets from the shadow of it's younger brother
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July 19, 2011, 3:54 p.m. CST
I WAS SMH WHEN I FIRST HEARD THE TITLE "THE DARK KNIGHT RISES," BUT NOW I LIKE THE CHRISTIAN CONNOTATION
by Meadowe
idk if it was intentional, but someone pointed out before how the Joker was the devil in The Dark Knight and Batman was kind of like Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ died for the sins of humanity, and Batman took the blame for Harvey Dent's murder spree. Jesus Christ rose from the dead and ascended into heaven, in tdkr (presumably) Batman rises from the bad rap he himself took on to become the unquestionable saviour of Gotham City. And if you're not Christian or whatever that's fine I was just linking the mythology by their similarities. Also, I remember critics and maybe even Christopher nolan himself saying that the title The Dark Knight referred to Harvey Dent straying away from his white knight duties and becoming evil, so maybe The Dark Knight Rises also refers to Bane rising...? I kinda think how Henri Ducard was combined with Ra's Al Ghul Bane may be combined with another character (maybe jgl's cop character is who Bane used to be?). Man it's gonna be a long year.
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from the TAS series.he is doing the perfect voice for Batman and Wayne. But guys,and i am not saying this because i am greek, you really really have to listen to the Batman/Wayne voice that a well-known greek voice-actor did for the greek dubbing of the series. His voice as Batman is the epitome of darkness,deepness,chillness and fear of the god. You have to hear him when he says with the Batman voice the line: I am the darkness. he is my 2nd favorite Batman voice after Conroy'sand sometimes even the first.
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July 19, 2011, 4 p.m. CST
Yup, the Nolanoids really do think that...
by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Gravy
They're NOT just talking in relative terms as transplanted to the superhero genre. They actually believe TDK is one of the best movies ever made.
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Awesome pic! lol
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There's always hyperbole spewing morons in every circle. Then again, all these sheep beating to death the term "OVERRATED!!" need to STFU as well. Nonsense from both sides.
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Turn the camera on himself at the end of this little video. At least, that is, if I'm remembering right.
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TDK is NOT the best movie ever made. It's not even in the top 20. It IS, however, the best superhero movie ever made.
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IMHO i consider Superman The Movie the best super-hero movie ever made. it really can make you believe that a man can fly.which is a more difficult challenge to achieve,than lets say a rich guy who becomes a real ninja dressed as a bat because he has issues. and it also has the only actor who has indisputably become synonymous to the super-hero that he played. what more can a comic fan wish from a comic movie?
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Ha! Resent or resemble?
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Eh. Spinning the earth backwards kills that entire movie for me. It's worse than the fridge nuke in Indy 4, imo. And the entire plot hinges on it, unfortunately.
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when he films the fat batman. he also shows his face on teh camera, in the video where he tells about the bomb-trapped hospitals in GC. So he does need to be in character in those videos because he shows his face while he is recording them which also explains this BTS pic.
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July 19, 2011, 4:19 p.m. CST
It's literally one of the stupidest things I've ever seen on film
by Mattman
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I will agree they did a fantastic job with the characters and cast, and the flying. It still suffers from way too much cheese and goofy line delivery, much as Raimi's Spidey movies do.
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people who preferred to commit suicide rather than blasting to smithereens a bunch of other people,in order to save themselves and their loved ones,is what killed the entire TDK movie for me.
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July 19, 2011, 4:24 p.m. CST
How is TDK getting too much love when ALL of you seem to dislike it?
by Adelai Niska
Only on AICN would constant negative comments make a movie overrated.
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July 19, 2011, 4:25 p.m. CST
It's literally one of the stupidest things I've ever seen on film
by KilliK
especially a film which is ,acclaimed to be very realistic for the depiction of the characters and their world in a superhero movie.
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I wouldn't have pushed a button on a detonator THE JOKER gave to me. I would not blast another boat in order to save my own skin, sorry. There's no guarantee it would work. IMO, that scene played out exactly how it would in real life, 9 times out of 10. Especially when it comes down to ONE GUY having to do it. No one wants that responsibility when it comes down to it. Sure, someone might have done it, but not everyone.
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July 19, 2011, 4:29 p.m. CST
*it still suffers from way too much cheese and goofy line delivery, much as Raimi's Spidey movies do.*
by KilliK
i agree and there is a reason for that.both director grew up with the pre-80s comics which were cheesier and more childish that the more serious and mature comics which came later in the 80s. A movie with Superman turning Earth back in time is what a comic fan would expect to see if he had grown up with the comics of the golden/silver age. The same goes with Raimi who has said that he grew up with the 70s spiderman,although he did try to incorporate in his movies elements from the comics of the later decades.
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as Nicholson's Joker taking down the batwing with a single shot from a foot long pistol in the '89 'Batman'.
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July 19, 2011, 4:30 p.m. CST
All those people who say this is overrated, cast your minds back to the fucking Joel Schumacher days...
by ChickenStu
Then you'll probably see how lucky we are now that someone like Nolan is doing the Batman movies...
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Ive got a lot of love for Supes 1 and 2, but if anyone tried that ending in a movie today, the word "abortion" would be tossed around on the talkbacks like a hot potato. There are no logic issues in TDK or any other recent comic book movie that compares to that "supes repeatedly flies real fast around the earth and somehow turns back time" ending. Certainly nothing that would make me hate an otherwise well-made flick like TDK. And i still enjoy watching Superman on occasion. Despite the ending. Besides, how else was he gonna save Lois?
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when you find yourself in a real situation like the one in the movie,then come and tell me what you would do. not now,behind your monitor, sitting on your cozy chair.
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July 19, 2011, 4:38 p.m. CST
And TDK is only realistic compared to the Burton/Raimi films.
by dahveed1972
Hes actually a very stylistic director, with a precise, clean art direction. Not a huge fan of his other work, but hes no Mike Leigh. His movies LOOK like movies, not real life. And his scripts are tighly crafted puzzles, not vague verite blueprints. Just sayin.
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July 19, 2011, 4:39 p.m. CST
Killik, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't take a madman at his word
by Mattman
I suppose none of us know what we would do until we're in that situation. But that doesn't mean everyone would do it. I'm pretty sure many people would clam up when the time came. Especially when you have no proof it's even going to save you, aside from a madman's words. Actually, I think I'd be squeezing out of a window and swimming for shore. I'm quite wily.
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parts of it do, just not the whole movie, i feel the same way about Inception too
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July 19, 2011, 4:43 p.m. CST
And if anyone else thinks like me (or a reasonable fucking human being)
by Mattman
You would consider the possibility that it's all a test... that clicking the button would blow up your own boat. That was the FIRST thing that entered my mind when I first saw it.
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July 19, 2011, 4:43 p.m. CST
And i remember Burton's Batman being described as "gritty" back in the day
by dahveed1972
Again, it was in comparison to the camp of the old tv show, which is how most people thought of the character at that time. And that movie is riddled (pun?) with lapses in logic.
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Yeah, it's got a lot of flaws (especially in retrospect), but it was a superhero movie for adults. It was anything but cheesy.
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My reasoning being, besides not wanting to kill other people, the detonator could have been for the boat I was on, not the other one. You only have the Joker's word that it will blow up the other boat, and let's face it, he's not the most reliable person. IMHO Batman Begins is more enjoyable even though he doesn't even wear the suit for the first 45 minutes or so.
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I have watched TDKR teaser and have read the comments about it. From that, so called "fan boys" have gone on massive rants that it's going to suck, it shows nothing new (it's only been filming for six weeks), Bane looks too small (they've deducted that from a shot of his face and a brief closing shot of the back of his head and right shoulder). I think I've come to a conclusion of sorts. Fan boys are the new emos. Everything sucks to them, even if something is good for some reason they can't allow themselves to admit it. Now, no movie is perfect, but TDK blew me away when I saw it. I never thought a comic book movie could be so epic and grand in scale and the interogation scene was almost perfect Joker "You have nothing, nothing to threaten me with, nothing to do with all your strength". Love it! I for one, am excited for TDKR, the last shot of the trailer with Bane lumbering towards a weary looking Batman actual gave me chills. It gave me the sense that Bane is one serious mother f**ker. I'd love for this conclusion in Nolan's trilogy to be a 3 hour plus movie so that they can take their time with the story. I can't wait!
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July 19, 2011, 4:53 p.m. CST
*Actually, I think I'd be squeezing out of a window and swimming for shore.*
by KilliK
that is a very realistic reaction and it is something i would have done that as well. unfortunately the movie didnt show that either.in fact it didnt show anything which qualifies as a desperate reaction from a group of people to save the lives,both theirs and those that they love. nope,instead the movie showed the people to sit down and quietly vote if they want to commit suicide or live by killing a bunch of unknown people. yeah very realistic.even more realistic than Superman sending the Earth back in time.aha.
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Actually when Joker tells Gotham about the bombs in area hospitals, he's calling into that exact newsman's nightly show "Gotham Tonight." He's calling from the docs where he's just lit a giant pile of money on fire to prove that's not what he's interested in. There are only the two video's, Fat Batman, where he turns the camera on himself and speaks. And this one, where he turns his camera on himself and he is only giggling, as he is during most of the card reading "Chip Angle" or whatever the fuck his name is doing. Hence, he is in full make up and doing the camera work. It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but i have seen it many....many times. But please, correct me if I'm wrong.
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They might have added a scene of a few people trying to escape the boat, and getting shot by snipers or some shit. Problem solved. But it hardly is enough of a nitpick to ruin the movie. Not like the earth suddenly reversing polarity and spinning backwards on its axis because a dude is flying around it. *head explodes*
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so dont click it.just sit there,leave your fate to the hands of a madman, and calmly wait for those 10m to pass and see what happens. you will do exactly that, right? the majority of sane people will do exactly that ,right? are you willing to bet your life that this is the real truth?
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They were discussing what they should do, and there were too many people and too short an amount of time to come to a logical conclusion. I agree more people would be scrambling for an exit, but I got the impression it might be too far to shore. (People die swimming from Alcatraz, and it looked about that far). My problem with a lot of TDK naysaying is you guys seem to exaggerate in order to make your point. Sure, it has flaws, but you're just nitpicking a lot of it.
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nope.problem not solved.for two reasons. 1.they didnt add this scene you are talking about. theorizing about how a movie should be made,doesnt make the real movie any better. 2.even if they added that scene,it would have made things a lot worse for the realism of the movie. because this time the people would have completely lost all their nerve and hope and would be determined to blow up the other ship regardless of the risk or their guilt. mattman really now,you know shit about the human nature,huh?
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there see? you just killed the entire movie for me again.
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that's how i remember it too.
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Thanks!
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...or you live long enough to watch yourself become the villain." It is at this moment, when a character says something that's not at all relevant to the scene or to his character at that time but only to signify an event further into the story, when you realize Harvey Dent is going to change sooner or later. Pretty bad writing IMO.
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The reason no one attempts to escape the boats is because the Joker says if anyone does he'll blow them up.
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July 19, 2011, 5:15 p.m. CST
The problem isn't just that it's unrealistic...
by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Gravy
but that it's a rather turgid and heavy handed way to dramatise a theme. The third act of TDK is a bit of a let-down, really, especially after a wonderfully paced and intense middle act. It's a shame because with a few tweaks (not to mention Nolan learning how to film action scenes) the movie really could have been as good as some claim.
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But I do cry every time I read a post where someone suggests anything in the Burton films was better. My fucking God! If it wasn't for Nolan, NO ONE would be talking about Batman in a good way right now because the shit Schumacher films overpowered Burton's (And Burton's second film sucked balls too). Nolan re-energized Batman and the comic book movie. Anyone who can give me a more recent comic book movie that had more influence on this genre than Begins or TDK will get mad props from me, but it will never happen, because there isn't one. FACT! And I already know Captain America won't because you can rip on Nolan's action directing all you want, the fight scene released last week in Captain America was fucking boring and I got no pleasure seeing Evans hit a guy and have ropes pull the guy fifteen feet in the air. That sucked about as much as the 15 minute fight scene with Constantine and Elrond in The Matrix sequel. Fuck that shit, shorter is better. And to be honest, the Vin Diesel, Rock fight in Fast 5 probably was better than most fights I've seen in any comic book movie recently. So I don't understand all the bitching about Nolan as if every other movie has amazing fight scenes.
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scene with Harvey Dent there as well. That scene was already a social experiment which confirmed Joker's view of the human morality. Nolan should have left Dent as the main villain and the ferry scene (replaced with something more epic) as Joker's new social experiment for the next movie. but what is done is done.anyway.
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July 19, 2011, 5:25 p.m. CST
Parts of the Burton films WERE better than some of the things in Nolan's Bat films...
by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Gravy
Better art direction, better score, and Keaton was a more believable Bruce Wayne than Bale. And Batman Returns is a terrific sequel, and arguably the second best Batman film after TDK.
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This one has been playing quite a bit on A&E lately. I haven't seen it in years, but it does hold up extremely well. We can only hope that Bale and Hathaway have half the chemistry that Keaton and Pfieffer did as Bruce and Selena. Their scene at Max's party and when the Siouxsie and the Banshees' song comes on is one of the best.
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will be put in good hands and not in the hands of some hack or unsuitable director like what happened with Shumacher. imagine if Bay or McG was the director hired to continue the franchise...shivers...
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Great first two acts, apart from Maggie Gyllenhaal's DREADFUL performance (can't believe i'd rather have Katie Holmes back). Nowhere near as good as Donner's Superman.
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but why bother to explain those self-evident things to people who cant distinguish reality from fantasy.
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have to go and get some sleep.it's 2 in the night here you see.cheers.
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July 19, 2011, 5:55 p.m. CST
I like Bale and Keaton a lot, but Val Kilmer was the best Bat
by MJDeViant
I know I know. Laugh at me all you want BUT I think if we had Heat's Val Kilmer (before he got a little pudgy) playing Wayne in Nolan's series I think it would be perfect. Kilmer was great in Batman Forever which unfortunately wasn't a good film (a mess of a film but not as much as Batman & Robin). I just think he looks the part more and would have been a better choice than Bale today (if I could spin time around and such, which I can't). I like Bale a lot, he's a terrific actor and I like him in this role,too, but I think Kilmer would have been better. Just my two cents. Please don't hurl rocks at me.
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This was me agreeing with you. In other words, if they had added that scene, it would have solved that nitpick, which I agree with.
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Sounds like SAW movies are right up your alley, Killik. :) Everyone makes the wrong choice and kills someone else to save their own skin.
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Art direction wasn't as good, Burton's films looked like sets and it never felt like a city except the first scene of the first one. And a skinny ass Keaton is NOT more believable than a younger ripped Bale. Sorry. Keaton was fine, but Bale is better.
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It’s fine if you prefer the first to the second just as there will be those who will forever battle over Alien vs. Aliens but frankly, much of this reeks of some sort of hipster contrarian bullshit that is all the rage nowadays. TDK is a fantastic film and it managed to encapsulate the mythos of Batman quite brilliantly. Personally, I don’t even look at these films as separate but rather one long and incredibly well executed story that will conclude nest summer.
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There are a lot of variables regarding human nature. Men have jumped on grenades to protect their fellow man. Recently, in California, a man pushed two children (who weren't his own) out of the way of a rolling truck, saving them and getting smashed in the process. At the same time, you have hit and runs and other selfish acts that result in someone's death. So which human nature are you referring to? I didn't realize humans were all so neatly patterned.
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I understand why people feel so strongly about it, as with Avatar. You were supposed to. It is not some ordinary genre offering to be judged by its interpretation of costumes, powers, or canon. It comes from the best era in comic book (graphic novels) writing, that is The Dark Knight Returns, Year One, The Killing Joke, Watchmen, as well as the great realist films from the 70's and early 80's wherein the actors actually got dirty, sweated, and acted like reasonable facsimiles of human beings. Two words -- Sidney Lumet. Two more words -- Michael Mann. And it is the best film yet to deal with 9/11 in a real way that doesn't allow the audience to hide behind easy answers. T.'.
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Fucking hell, I just want the movie to end, and for them NOT to have Dent die and Batman ride away like a pussy. All the people on those two boats deserve to die and there should be a re-edit where they DO and at least the Joker goes out in a blaze of glory. No-one should take on that role for at least 20 years after Ledger owned it.
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July 19, 2011, 6:44 p.m. CST
I'm in the minority, but I actually rather like Nolan's approach to fight scenes in Batman
by Anthrax
Particularly in Begins, when we first meet the bat from the perspective of the thugs. I don't really want to see a perfectly staged, perfectly framed, wire-fu match featuring a perfectly lit Bats. Doing a triple axle Neo kick with a flip is counter-intuitive to the character. Is it pretty? No. But then, it's not supposed to be, either.
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And joker to be hanging their by the rope outside the building with a menacing look on his face. A real "Empire Strikes Back" style ending.
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Talking about not aging well. Every scene was static and dull. Forward thru the slow parts to get to the action scenes.. and they suck because Burton can't direct action, and the second unit made it look like it was from a different movie. Watch it for Nicholson's Joker, but after Ledger's performance, you might as well be watching Cesar Romero's Joker. Watch it for the atmosphere and it just seems dull and drab.. and forced.
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When I realized I'd never have two(let alone one!) hot foreign supermodels sharing a bucket seat in my car. At least Batman movies are still being made. Some great, some not so great, but the story itself is eternal. Someday when the some unknown director takes it on again, we can all gripe to our grandchildren about how ours was the best Batman.
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can go suck a fat one. Nolan brought the "escalation" he promised at the end of BB by giving us the best Joker ever put on film, and set up the anarchy that will dominate the third movie. It sucks that Ledger's Joker will not be an intregal part of that, but I've gotten over it.
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Nolan was moving the movie along at such a fast clip that a lot of the exposition that set up scenes got buried or barely mentioned or mumbled under noise. Once you see the movie more than once it makes more sense but its still pretty annoying. And yes not a fan of Jake Gyllenhal or whichever one is the sister. And I'm sorry but Aaron Eckhart looks like Thomas Jane and they both look like Peter Krause and they're all bland. They're the new Bill Pullman/Jeff Daniels.
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Spidey 2 is much better. So is Iron Man. And, sorry, but the 60s Marvels were easily the best. The 80s? Yawn.
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...Batman Begins is the superior film of the two. It's not Nolan bashing; I totally loved Inception, Memento, The Prestige and even dug Insomnia. I don't think the Dark Knight has aged that well, but still, I'm looking forward to the sequel. Personally, I think Inception will be Nolan's timeless film that everybody will cite.
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where guys in suits stood around discussing rules and shit. You know, that part..
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I think you could make a case that in some ways it was a better superhero film than both Burton and Nolan's films.
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I think you could make a case that in some ways it was a better superhero film than both Burton and Nolan's films.
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I think you could make a case that in some ways it was a better superhero film than both Burton and Nolan's films.
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...that's only two years old at this point. Give it some frigging time! :-) Besides that, let me tell what I think: It's all bullshit anyways. Nolan's Joker makes me wonder how he moved around all that gasoline and crap without people noticing, how he buys it without folks catching on. But really, you could probably pick apart the logic of any movie like that, if you just put some effort into it. Burton's Joker? Different creature than Nolan's, but not necessarily worse for it. I don't generally try to put movies in a pecking order, because I've learned there's much to enjoy in different styles of writing and filmmaking. Burton's films did things one way, Nolan's did things another. Schumacher's movies? At best guilty pleasures for their goofiness, movies that remind me too often that they come out of a comic book. I liked Burton's modern, more serious take, along with its comic book tone. I liked how Nolan's Batman felt just that far removed from real world plausibility, how he's enmeshed the Dark Knight in an action thriller that competes well with many of the best. But at the end of the day, they're both works of fiction, and about a subject who isn't real. There is no perfection possible here, not even manifestation. He is a shadow of anything real. But really, does he have to be more? We're telling a story here. This is exercise for your brain, for your emotions, for your senses. Everything is a shadow of an illusion. I really do want to see the Dark Knight Rises. But you know what? I won't be shitting on other movies that are different, or getting into these pointless diatribe about what the better franchise is. I'll watch them, and enjoy them for what they are, not what I wish them to be. You can't discover anything if you only seek exactly what you know you'll like. And you can't really enjoy fiction and fictional movies if you're heading into a movie trying your best to unsuspend your suspension of disbelief. No filmmaker can please a person who wants things to be absolutely real.
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Spidey 2 & Superman 2 win that contest, I think. They were both excellent, fun, and permeated with a real sense of adventure and imagination. TDK would be a solid 3rd, though X-Men 2 would give it some competition by being the best-realized ensemble comic flick yet. Some might balk at me so glibly mixing the "serious" TDK in with those lighter-toned films, but I don't give TDK a pass just because it's trying to be dark and serious. It's still a comic-book movie, and should be judged accordingly. For all the flak I've given TDK in these boards, I did like it. I thought it was excellent in a lot of ways, and it deserved a lot of success. I just thought it was way too constipated overall, and thoroughly dropped the ball in the last act. The danger & menace in the Joker-Batman confrontations was really something to see, especially in the way it spiraled out of Batman's control. Been a while since I can remember a villain who felt that dangerous.
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Saw it back in the day when it was in theatres for like one week. I should probably add it to the animation shelf.
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Per Richard Donner, Superman did NOT actually spin the earth backwards. He flew around the earth faster than the speed of light, which caused him to travel backwards in time. The earth spinning backwards was a visual representation of Superman traveling backwards in time.
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That's how important the Dark Knight is.
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Has it aged well? So far, yeah, sure. It got me to sit down and wait through painful commercials which I VERY rarely do. All the things I don't like about it are still there, however. Is it overrated? Nah, I wouldn't say so, the genius elements outweigh it's defects. The thing that most bug me about the movie are hardly ever discussed, the war on terror/Patriot Act bullshit at the end with the surveillance theme. Morgan Freeman is more against it than Batman and Batman is basically pro illegal surveillance, the destruction of the 4th amendment, etc. Batman thinks it's o.k. to break one of the 10 ammendments in order to catch the Joker and save people. It makes me angry that they'd shove ultra right wing propaganda down our throats in a comic book film. They turned the Joker into Osama Bin Laden. Hey, fuckfaces, I don't want to think about the corrupt, bullshit "war on terror" when watching a summer action film. I sure as fuck don't want pro-Patriot Act propaganda shoved down my fucking throat in a film I otherwise love. Save the fucking politics for all the shitty films that bomb at the box office because NO ONE wants to watch that shit.
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Val Kilmer is a great actor and was good as both Bruce Wayne and Batman. It's just that the movie wasn't that good. Given better material I think he would've been a great Batman, he even had a good Batman voice. Bale is good and his Bruce Wayne is great but I don't find his Batman intimidating enough. Maybe that's in part due to the scripts but he just doesn't "feel" like Batman. I remember leaving the cinema after seeing TDK and a friend of mine who's not a big Batman fan said "He didn't seem like the bad ass you expect Batman to be, he seemed more like Robin dressed as Batman". I kinda agree with that.
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No way they're better than Begins or TDK, if you think they are, you have that right. But has anyone watched those lately, they really do suck, although the first one is solid when it's not featuring Kirsten Dunst or James Franco.
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I don't have another one in mind, just that saying it has the cultural impact of ESB for an entire generation is really stretching it. Maybe the "blade runner" of this generation.
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July 20, 2011, 1:01 a.m. CST
Dammit Heath! Why'd you have to piss off the Reaper?!?
by Onin Solstice
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But it comes pretty close to being great. The story/narrative are surely better than The Dark Kight. I didn't really like the 3rd or what some people call the 4th act of TDK.
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much love for skywalkerjoker!
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I love the work ethic of this picture. Here's Heath Ledger giving his fellow actor something to react to and doing it in full makeup and costume as well. That's the work mates.
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Having one good scene (costume ball) does not make a movie good. The rest of it is as shitty as Burton's first one. We can all agree those movies have amazing art design and looked great, but everything else (plot, dialogue) is abysmal. If you like Burton's films better, then you acknowledge that you prefer your Batman with all the dimensions of a cartoon.
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West>Conroy>Keaton>Kilmer>Bale>...Clooney
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Seriously raskolnikov_was_framed......what kind of pre-pubescent wanker must you be?
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Being a 30yr old with 2 kids means not being able to finish movies in a single sitting anymore, which is some form of hell-on-earth. But anyway -- Begins is twice the movie TDK is. So much more atmosphere and feeling. Batman actually does stuff, its great. TDK is so drawn out... the whole 4th act argument. And I agree with all who say the boat scene needed to end in at least one (or both would have been even better) exploding. That whole scene is just boring and lifeless because you know nobody is gonna die... the whole convict-saving-the-day moment is lame (and feels like something out of a Michael Bay/Armageddon type movie). Joker dangling over the edge of the building, yet victorious would have been an AMAZING moment, especially after all that buildup. Anyway, both movies are a shimmer of light in an otherwise dark cavern of summer popcorn flics, don't get me wrong. I just hope Nolan doesn't hold back on this last part of the trilogy.
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July 20, 2011, 10:21 a.m. CST
Joker's a hard (oscar winning) act to follow, your move Bane.
by Arkhaminmate001
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honestly have no recollection of this; that's michael c hall, right?
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July 20, 2011, 11:18 a.m. CST
How does anyone DARE to diss Nolan after 2 f*cking Shumacher fag-circuses! Ungrateful tw*ts!!!!
by Jeff Myers
Nuff said!!!
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...I will say this: "Inception" totally kicks 'The Dark Knight's' ass.
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and thought Bale was a better Batman in that than in The Dark Knight. He needs to be that Batman again in TDKR. I forgot about the scene where he's interogating Flass, has him hanging upside down by a wire 10 stories up... Flass: "I don't know, I swear to god" Batman: "SWEAR TO ME!!!". Good Batman stuff right there.
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Rules. Get over it fools.
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There is something pretty special about that. Except for Ken Watanabe going out so weak. That part always sucks in an otherwise great film. That little bit of wood taking him out? Give me a break
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