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I have given a name to my pain and it is the Behind the Scenes Pics of the Day.

Published at: July 1, 2011, 2:44 p.m. CST by quint

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with today’s Behind the Scenes Pic!

Tim Burton’s Batman is a fascinating movie. It’s about as far away from Christopher Nolan’s take on the universe as you can get… in fact, when compared to the big screen Batman that came before and after it’s an interesting stepping stone from the ‘60s movie (and TV series) to the Nolan series.

Burton’s Batman is gothic, surreal, but also slightly grounded in some base grittiness that just feels right. The streets feel dirty. Bruce Wayne is as haunted as can be, thanks to a fantastic performance from Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson chewing scenery as The Joker? There’s nothing like it before or since.

Today’s shot sees The Bat getting touched up on the set. I like it as a simple bit of candid simplicity and I hope you guy dig it, too.

Thanks to Andrew Jackson for sending this one along. Click to embiggen!

 

If you have a behind the scenes shot you’d like to submit to this column, you can email me at quint@aintitcool.com.

Pour yourself a screwdriver. You’ll need it for tomorrow’s behind the scenes pic.

-Quint
quint@aintitcool.com
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Readers Talkback

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  • July 1, 2011, 2:46 p.m. CST

    guh?

    by terrence horan

    guh

  • July 1, 2011, 2:46 p.m. CST

    I was shocked...

    by JamesWest

    I have to admit, I was shocked when I saw the first Burton Batman. It was genuinely good. I just could never have guessed that Keaton could pull it off. But he did.

  • July 1, 2011, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Awesome

    by rhine1784

    We wouldn't have Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, or The Dark Knight Rises if it wasn't for this starting it all...went from bad ass to bad bad stink stink (Schumacher). Thank you Burton/Keaton and especially Michael Uslan!!

  • July 1, 2011, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Always liked the returns costume

    by eric haislar

    the best out of the tim burton stuff.

  • July 1, 2011, 2:48 p.m. CST

    Summer '89 was batshit crazy

    by elsewhere

    Good times indeed.

  • July 1, 2011, 2:48 p.m. CST

    People shit on this movie...

    by Lashlarue

    and I can see why. But, I was 8 years old when this movie came out, and for it's time, it was amazing.

  • July 1, 2011, 2:49 p.m. CST

    lashlarue

    by eric haislar

    It's still good i never understood why people shit on it.

  • July 1, 2011, 2:50 p.m. CST

    I still like Burton's pop art take on the material.

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Gravy

    It's a nice contrast to Nolan's sober realism.

  • July 1, 2011, 2:51 p.m. CST

    I was not completely taken by this movie. Or even Nolans.

    by Jerry Piper

    Never really felt Batman was as great a story as most geeks.

  • July 1, 2011, 2:51 p.m. CST

    It was good but....

    by The_Credible_Hulk

    I really thought Batman Returns was better.

  • July 1, 2011, 2:54 p.m. CST

    The Prince soundtrack was good

    by tatoosh

    Very eighties, but good.

  • July 1, 2011, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Classic, but it didn't age very well. Kim screams way too much!

    by Mandolorian

  • July 1, 2011, 2:56 p.m. CST

    the_credible_hulk

    by eric haislar

    Me too I love Returns it is so dark and great performances from everyone.

  • especially Baldwin as he looked as though hed just stepped out the comics...plus had been in burtons Beetlejuice with Keaton

  • July 1, 2011, 3 p.m. CST

    Summer of '89 was indeed batshit crazy

    by disfigurehead

    I hate Prince but I love the soundtrack. I had a Batman window sticker on my back winder of my truck.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:03 p.m. CST

    My dad took me to see this

    by eric haislar

    I was 8 years old, It is one of my fav memories I have as a child. After the movie we where both so pumped as we approached the house my dad hit the garage door and we entered just as the door was going up just like batman in the bat cave.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Batman Returns is a classic to me...

    by Andrew Coleman

    That movie is hilarious and Keaton's Batman is hard core bad ass. I don't compare them to Nolan's because to me the films are just too different in tone and style to compare. I really love Burton's two Batman films. They are fun. And with lines like "Somebody fay fish? I haven't been fed all day!"... "Eat floor" and Batman slams Catwoman to the ground. Anne Hathaway is going to have a hard time matching that.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:07 p.m. CST

    hell batman killed dudes in returns

    by eric haislar

    he was a bad ass.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Come on, now.

    by Robert79797979

    Don't tease us with Joker quotes and post a Batman picture.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:08 p.m. CST

    the Prince soundtrack is AWESOME.

    by sonnyhooper

    the lyrics seem to suggest that Prince had a better grasp of the Batman and Joker characters than burton ever did. <p> lyrics from "The future": <p> "Yellow Smiley offers me X Like he's drinking 7-Up I would rather drink 6 razor blades Razor blades from a paper cup He can't understand, I say 2 tough It's just that I've seen the future and, boy, it's rough" <p> say what you want about Prince, but the dude has a Oscar. and a well deserved one at that, the music in "purple rain" is fucking killer.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Why is Sam Neill picking Batman's scabs?

    by sweeneydave

  • July 1, 2011, 3:10 p.m. CST

    sonnyhooper

    by eric haislar

    Prince is a genius. Dude could sit all day and right hit song after hit song. But he chooses to do his own thing and say fuck everyone.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Keaton Bat was great. Clooney Bat was beyond bad.

    by Centauri

  • July 1, 2011, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Still the best batman movie.

    by MainMan2001

    I love the Nolan movies but they aren't really batman movies....more like Drama Action films. This movie came out when I was a little kid and it blew my mind.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:19 p.m. CST

    The Prince soundtrack is good

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Gravy

    Not as good as his classic run of 80-88 albums, but still good. His style of cold electro-funk matches the dark tones of Burton's futuro-gothic art direction and fits well into the whole pop art broth of the movie. I just wish the songs had been integrated better into the movie instead of being tacked on. He should have included the outtake Dance with the Devil', which would have went superbly with the Gotham Cathedral scenes.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:19 p.m. CST

    Tim Burton's first Batman was very good

    by jimmy rabbitte

    It struck the right tone as it was the character's first major foray of any kind since the campy TV series. It was dark and serious but comical in spots when it needed to be. Nicholson brought Oscar winning credibility to the project and was smart enough to realize, in his own words --speaking to Keaton, "Well kid, we just have to let the costumes to the acting.".<p> I felt the next film faltered a little bit. It made the same mistake that Spiderman 3 ended up making, by having too many villains in the piece. Penguin and Catwoman would have been fine on their own in separate films; but having them mashed together and making them compete with Walken's Max Schrek caused the story to get kind of muddled up for me. I didn't hate the film but it did leave me feeling underwhelmed.<p> However, 'Returns' was obviously miles ahead of the two Schumacher debacles. We're fortunate that Warner Bros. shelved the character for eight years, so that it could be reworked and done properly. Christopher Nolan has done a great job with the franchise; and it will great to see him finish up his sequence of films. As with the different iterations of comic books, it would be interesting to see another director pick up the series in a few years following The Dark Knight Rises. Hopefully there will be another filmmaker out there who will have an interesting take on the property, without making the same foolish missteps that Joel Schumacher made.

  • Then Batman Returns proved it.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:26 p.m. CST

    The biggest difference between the first two Batmans

    by sweeneydave

    and the latest two revamps is that Burtons Batmans was mostly about the villains. Nolans is all about the heros. That says fascinating things about the directors themselves.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Another one to poop on

    by proevad

    Sorry. Didn't like this one either. Saw it on opening night. Great look of course. Music was great. Keaton was ok. Had severe pacing issues and a pretty bad ending. Nicholson embarrasses himself in the museum sequence. Meh.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:33 p.m. CST

    Batman 89 for the win. Nolan's Batman films are too pompous.

    by Mr. Moe

  • July 1, 2011, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Still think Keaton and Nicholson were badly cast

    by BenBraddock

    In the event they were OK, but the movie could have been so much better with other actors.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:36 p.m. CST

    We Need a dubbed version of The Dark Knight....

    by chromedome

    ...so we can understand what the hell Bales was saying? Did the suit constrict his throat? How did they let that performance stand? Heather Ledger's Joker OWNED the screen anytime he was on it, and Bale's Batman was just annoyingly incoherent.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:40 p.m. CST

    by Kevin

    Yes,Prince is a musical genius,......but the Jack/Joker defacing art works?Please,...bad/sh**y scene.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:41 p.m. CST

    chromedome

    by eric haislar

    Actually Christopher Nolan made his voice deeper in post. Bale has said his performance was more along the lines of the first film.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:42 p.m. CST

    awesome pic.......love batman 89

    by fat_rancor_keeper

    how could anyone not enjoy this film? you have Burton @ his creative peak Nicholson doing his thing Keaton knocking it out of the park tons of great action and FX A solid origin/villain story arc the list goes on and on........

  • July 1, 2011, 3:43 p.m. CST

    snookeroo

    by proevad

    Nail meet head. Spot on.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:45 p.m. CST

    and why dosen't Batman dance anymoore?

    by Grace_Panda

    Nolan's films are no fun at all.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:47 p.m. CST

    lol I do notice most people who shit on this movie

    by fat_rancor_keeper

    do so in a vague manner. I mean you don't have to write up a dissertation but at least explain why you disliked the movie or give some details for the purposes of discussion. keaton & Nicholson were badly cast? okay so would have been better? The best thing you can say about this movie is that it could have been worse....then Batman Returns proved it??? again....no reason why. ah well

  • July 1, 2011, 3:54 p.m. CST

    the one thing Burton, Schumacher, and Nolan didnt get right

    by sunwukong86

    Batman is supposed to be a genius. Nolan made Batman a dumb thug. Burton's Batman was smart but not quite there. Schumacher's Batman? Well yeah... Batman can make inventions of his own, he doesnt need Lucious Fox to make them.

  • July 1, 2011, 3:54 p.m. CST

    1989--good fukkin year at the cinema

    by THE_CHOPPAH

  • July 1, 2011, 3:59 p.m. CST

    Keaton is the best Bruce Wayne -- FACT

    by RedLeaderStandingBy

    Man, I fucking loved this movie when it came out. I was 8 years old, watched first whit my mom and I went nuts. Seriously! Everything became Batman to me (backpacks, lunch boxes, toys, everyfuckingthing). Watched again in the theater, this time whit mom and dad and when it came out on VHS it became my top 1 rent of all time. Keaton's Batman would wipe the floor whit Bale's.

  • think 89 was the first of the MEGA blockbuster summers

  • -- but now feel that BATMAN is better simply because BATMAN RETURNS delves into too much Shumacher-like cheesiness.

  • July 1, 2011, 4:08 p.m. CST

    For those who poop on this movie...

    by Deep13

    This movie was very "cool", why are you on this site at all, you do not know what "cool" is. Just go away.

  • July 1, 2011, 4:09 p.m. CST

    remember when Prince put out "musicology" in 04..

    by sonnyhooper

    .....and people were calling it his "comeback album"? <p> all i could think when they called it a "comeback" was; <p> " mother-fucker where do you think Prince went?" <P> if you slept on all of Princes albums, AFTER, "diamonds and pearls", thats your load of bricks to carry, not mine. dont call it a comeback. the mans been here for years. <P> has anyone watched the prince videos from the batman soundtrack? "batdance" and "partyman"? they are fucking brilliant little pieces of insanity.

  • July 1, 2011, 4:13 p.m. CST

    TDKR

    by truenotes1

    Is gonna end up being a HUGE letdown. You talk abut Spiderman 3 having too many villans! TDK had too many as well, and didnt use Two-Face good in anyway. F'ing waste of a great character! And the Emo Joker!?

  • July 1, 2011, 4:13 p.m. CST

    Well, at least Burton didn't go with Marlon Waynes as Robin!!!

    by Michael_Jacksons_Ghost

    Thank f'n god!!!! 1st one was better than Returns. I look back at it, and can't help to laugh at every scene with Walken!

  • July 1, 2011, 4:14 p.m. CST

    sunwukong86

    by fat_rancor_keeper

    -Batman is supposed to be a genius. Nolan made Batman a dumb thug. ^^ I completely disagree. Nolan showed Batman had brains quite a few times in both films. For example in TDK he developed the innovative signal tracking device which helped him spy on the entire city. Something Fox was dead against. He also orchestrated the capture of Lau in Hong Kong. -Batman can make inventions of his own, he doesnt need Lucious Fox to make them. ^^ Batman had tons of stuff to do in the two Nolan films. In Begins we saw his detailed origin and his early days as a hero. In TDK we saw his continued growth as a character and many of his personal relationships as Bruce. As it was both movies were really well fleshed out. Did we really need to see even more scenes of Bruce tinkering with technology and gizmos?

  • July 1, 2011, 4:15 p.m. CST

    Nah, Jack sucked...

    by Billyeveryteen

    Prince was the wrong tone as well. The rest was mint.

  • July 1, 2011, 4:18 p.m. CST

    SUMMER 1989 - BATMAN, LAST CRUSADE, LETHAL 2

    by Mennen

    Great summer.

  • July 1, 2011, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Hello Legs...

    by hydroxicut

    I've owned this movie in every format, I watch it at least once a year. Burton nailed it IMO. I can rewatch this more than any other ones, even Nolan's and I love those.

  • July 1, 2011, 4:31 p.m. CST

    I like Keaton's Batman better than Bale's

    by KilliK

    Keaton has that expression of hidden craziness in his eyes which is closer to what Wayne's psyche is really about,while Bale tries to sound too melancholic and distant from his environment. and i do prefer Burton's gothic,darker and more cartoonish Batman movie than Nolan's realistic and sterile universe.but BR sucked.

  • July 1, 2011, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Keaton, Bad choice. Jack, Worse choice.

    by TDH1138

    The Burton Batman flicks were horrible. Any Batman fan with half a brain HATED what Burton did. He disregarded the source material completely and did whatever he wanted and WB let him. I like Burton (Big Fish is a masterpiece!) but this was shit. jack wasn't the Joker, he was Jack in Bad Joker Make-up. Keaton was NOT a good Batman or Bruce Wayne. He was the flavor of the moment back then. The reality is, had he been given better Material Clooney would have been excellent and Kilmer wasn't horrible, he had to deal with what Clooney did, the shitty material. Bale is doing a great job and Nolan respects the material.

  • July 1, 2011, 4:40 p.m. CST

    batman 89

    by mick vance

    was easily the best of the original four movies, and i'm still debating whether or not it's better than dark knight. this movie is able to balance both dark and campy well enough. i think there's a certain amount of fun that needs to be inherent in a comic book movie, and this film pulled it off nicely. of course, seeing this movie in theaters was probably the highlight of my young life at the time, and the nes game is still among the best batman videogames. arkham asylum nudges it out, though, because it has more of the true batman villains and not random video game thugs.

  • July 1, 2011, 4:50 p.m. CST

    1989 was a great year

    by SpazMatic1074

    So many summer blockbusters = a ton of Mad Magazine spoofs. Some day I'm going to ascend to the attic and look back at my childhood. Oh and STV, GB2, and Bond 16 were terrible films. Should have called it the year of the crap sequels.

  • July 1, 2011, 5:12 p.m. CST

    Keaton was good but...

    by Norman Colson

    His batman sucked as a fighter... i mean at least in batman begins we see batman physically kicking ass. i wish we saaw more of that in the movies. where batman is fighting using all his moves and martial arts skills... Keaton gave a little one two and then it was over...

  • July 1, 2011, 5:13 p.m. CST

    Star Trek V was such a frickin letdown

    by CARTMANEZ

    as a kid i used to love EVERYTHING i saw at the cinema..especially Trek movies. Star Trek V was the first film where i sensed something had gone wrong. i still liked it as i was a huge fan of the previous ones and it was new and all but there wasnt the 'I LOVE IT!' feel like there was with virtually every other movie i saw on the big screen in the 80s and early 90s funnily enough the next time i got that feeling was for Batman Returns. i really didnt like that which was such a big deal as i (like everyone) was a MAJOR fan of Bat89 and was so looking fwd to BR. in fact that was the first movie i ever saw at the cinema that i really didnt like and nearly walked out b4 the end (its ok to me now though - its more of an adult batman movie...but freaky and bizarre which i didnt get at all back in 92) anyway now i seem to dislike just about everything i go to see at the cinema...

  • Hype and anticipation-wise. The marketing was off the charts for this for a good six months before the movie opened; the poster with the gold Batman symbol was everywhere. And everyone wanted to see the movie ASAP. For Gen Y's and younger Gen X's it was the first big budget superhero film of their lives. For older ones it was the first really in over a decade since Superman: The Movie. And for Baby Boomers who grew up watching the old 60's TV show as kids or at college it was a most welcome flash from the past. The movie almost lived up to the hype, too. As hard as it might be to believe now, especially for anyone too young to remember the era, Batman's look, feel, humor, music, and casting choices were right on target for America in 1989.

  • July 1, 2011, 5:16 p.m. CST

    Hey Quint, contradiction?

    by Wapkaplet

    Tim Burton’s Batman is a fascinating movie. It’s about as far away from Christopher Nolan’s take on the universe as you can get… in fact, when compared to the big screen Batman that came before and after it’s an interesting stepping stone from the ‘60s movie (and TV series) to the Nolan series.

  • Sure, Nolan's movie is brilliantly constructed with rich theme's and subtext but they are soo boring to look at and I don't like how he bends over backwards to make everything "realistic". IMHO all he's really trying to do is make Batman into James Bond. But if you could take the style of Burton's 89 Batman and merge it with Nolan's characterization and storytelling skills, you'd have the perfect Batman movie. Better yet,make a Batman movie in the style of SIN CITY and that would fucking rock!!!

  • that had a huge budget, big marketing and pulled in about $300m ww (when adjusted)...ok no where near as big as Superman I (BO near to $1b when adjusted) or II (about $600-700m when adjusted) but III was still quite a big deal

  • July 1, 2011, 5:28 p.m. CST

    Why is a midget putting on Batman's makeup?

    by ames prather

    Seriously, Mr. Keaton looks like he's eight feet tall in this picture. I stood outside for two hours in the rain in Glasgow to see Batman in '89 and left the theater furious. The backstory on The Joker was all wrong (one should never know his past, it makes him more compelling...although Killing Joke did an amazing job of making him a more sympathetic character). The Joker was all wrong, Mr. Nicholson was completely miscast (too heavy, not menacing enough, too over-the-top). The Prince soundtrack was grating and out of place (seriously, when The Joker pulled out a boom-box just to shoehorn a song in I felt nauseous). The saving grace in that movie was Mr. Keaton, I was unsure about him at first until I saw Clean and Sober and I was stunned by his intensity. Kim Cattrell, on the other hand, just sucked ass and had the EXACT same scream every time. The killing of The Joker completely ruined any enjoyment I might have found in this movie and cemented my dislike for the film. It's been noted by a previous talkbacker that Mr. Burton's movies were more about the villains, a point I will completely agree on, which is why, in my opinion, Batman Begins is the first movie that is truly about Batman. Mr. Nolan didn't reboot the franchise, he started it. ??Pseudo?? Out.

  • July 1, 2011, 5:30 p.m. CST

    Jack Nicholson was awesome

    by Nerd Rage

    Very dark and twisted. Also this movie had one of the best scores ever. Batman 89 remains one of favorite movies. If it's on tv I'll always stop to watch it.

  • July 1, 2011, 5:34 p.m. CST

    I watched Returns every night for two years in high school...

    by PlugHED

    I was a little moody. Oddly enough, the dialog has become part of my everyday vernacular.

  • Kim Cattrell LOL...shed had probably KILLED to be in batman 89

  • July 1, 2011, 5:44 p.m. CST

    Kim BASINGER was/still is the hottest Batman babe

    by CARTMANEZ

  • July 1, 2011, 5:49 p.m. CST

    Please tell me

    by elsewhere

    Alec Baldwin didn't pass on the role of Bruce Wayne. He would have been perfect. It's strange enough he passed on Patriot Games after the success of Red October.

  • July 1, 2011, 5:57 p.m. CST

    1989 a great year for music too...

    by David

    Disintegration Deep Peepshow Stone Roses

  • July 1, 2011, 6:02 p.m. CST

    Joker's Boombox

    by Autodidact

    I still love that scene.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:03 p.m. CST

    BATMAN RETURNS IS JUST AS BAS AS THE SCHUMACHER FILMS!!!FACT!!!

    by CreepyThinMan

  • July 1, 2011, 6:05 p.m. CST

    Burton's Batman failed...

    by Darth_Tarantino

    ...for one key, very important reason; Batman does not kill. The fact that Burton didn't seem to understand that subsequently led to Batman killing goons in both of Burton's films. There's lots of other problems with them but this one is the major one. You can't just ignore the Batman's primary principle.

  • there is no comparision... please wash your mouth out with soap usurper!!!

  • July 1, 2011, 6:06 p.m. CST

    Who's Richer? Burton Wayne or Nolan Wayne?

    by Autodidact

    I wonder about that sometimes. I was *really* annoyed by the part in Batman Begins where Ra's says he went up against "people like your father"... the Nolan-verse Gotham is way too Wayne-centric.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:13 p.m. CST

    I'm not a huge fan of Returns either

    by Autodidact

    It's too influenced by Burton's singular vision, and his love of a freak show. And so much dumb shit like Batman DJ scratching a CD-ROM and the Batmobile being configured to pop the sides off... and apparently the sides were just big empty shells... that bugged me so much from the first time I saw it in a McDonald's commercial. And the Penguin's stupid plan at the end. And Batman flying down a tunnel that's like 3 inches wider than his plane. Man a lot of stuff in that movie pisses me off. Batman Returns was also one of the first movies I remember turning me off with the omnipresent marketing. That three-headed poster of Batman Catwoman and Penguin was a real eyesore. 15 years out, have to say I almost like Batman Forever better than Batman Returns. Almost.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:13 p.m. CST

    autodidact

    by Darth_Tarantino

    I'm not sure I get your point about Nolan's Gotham being Wayne-centric. I don't recall Ra's saying that he fought people like Thomas Wayne either - I do remember him saying that it was people like Thomas Wayne who tried to fight the corruption in Gotham but that it was too little too late. Will have to whip the film out and check on that though! :P

  • July 1, 2011, 6:17 p.m. CST

    i saw Batman in 1989 at premiere when I was 18.

    by BooBoosDaddy

    Loved it then. it doesn't stand the test of time. Aside from screaming Kim, it's actually a really bad script. And the Prince music is bad. As for Returns--I loathe that movie. Batman killing left and right? Penguin raised by penguins with jet packs???catwoman thrown from a skyscraper and licked back to life by cats to become an acrobatic ninja gal? and the capper: While Walken is shooting Kyle trying to take away her nine lives, what is Batman doing? I mean, aside from taking off his mask in front of Schreck? he's just standing there watching her get shot again and again. ugh. but this Behind the scenes pic is cool.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:18 p.m. CST

    darth

    by Autodidact

    Batman Begins climaxes with the Wayne Monorail headed to Wayne Plaza. That in itself is a bit WTF like okay, we get it... Batman lost his parents and they were rich and important.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:21 p.m. CST

    batman returns > batman.

    by iampain

    batman seemed made up as they went along. i still wonder if any dialog was actually written down anywhere before filming the movie. felt like- just let jack do his thing and that will carry the flick. batman returns had a better script, better dialog, better story, better characters.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:22 p.m. CST

    Nolan Batman also has way too much back-up

    by Autodidact

    I know that in most comic versions of Batman he has a whole cast of characters to back him up, from Alfred to Superman. But my personal version of Batman would have only Alfred... no Robin, no Catwoman, no Lucius Fox. Random note: Bale's "bat voice" is not going to age well at all. Already when I see a random clip of Dark Knight the voice makes me cringe a bit. And he has the weirdest damn lips too.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:24 p.m. CST

    autodidact

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Okay, but it is established earlier in the film that Thomas Wayne bought up the power and water utilities and had them run out of Wayne Tower. True, that's only a plot point so that we can have the race against time showdown at the end of the film. But also consider that Wayne was one of the wealthiest men in America and personally funded a lot of redevelopment in Gotham. Look at some real life tycoon's and how much notoriety they have because of how they spend their money/what they spend their money on. Rupert Murdoch would be one example, everyone knows his name and that comes with wealth, power and acquisition.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:26 p.m. CST

    So much better than Nolan's version.

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Yes, I said it.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:26 p.m. CST

    Ryan Dunn gets an obit but NOT the Green Lantern franchise??!?!

    by Arcadian Del Sol

  • July 1, 2011, 6:27 p.m. CST

    iampain

    by Darth_Tarantino

    "Batman returns had a better script, better dialog, better story, better characters." It's only a difference of opinion, I know, but I direct you to what autodidact said about Batman Returns. It is certainly no better than Burton's original Batman film. And as I said earlier, they both fail instantly by having a Batman who is willing to kill. That's. Not. Batman.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:28 p.m. CST

    I understand that. It bothers me

    by Autodidact

    It makes Batman into some kind of prince of Gotham.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:28 p.m. CST

    Best movie of Summer 89:

    by kwisatzhaderach

    The Abyss. Then Field of Dreams.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:28 p.m. CST

    Keaton vs Bale

    by Dodgy

    Keaton showed detective smarts, something Bale really hasn't done. They really need to show him figuring things out. As for the poster who said Keaton didn't show martial arts, one-two-down is EXACTLY how Batman should take villains out. Why waste energy when just two moves will take a bad guy down, and leave you energy to take on more. I always imagined bats just using the bare minimum of moves to win. Both sets of films could have done things better, especially with Batman killing guys (or letting them die) which he would never do, but both really work for me in their respective zones.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:32 p.m. CST

    autodidact

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Doesn't someone even refer to Bruce as "Gotham's first son" at some point in Batman Begins? I'm sure they do. It's an interesting angle to take I guess; one of the factors that motivates Bruce to go far away to study criminals and martial arts and such, because doing it at home in Gotham would not go unnoticed. I do understand why it doesn't sit right with you though. I'm okay with it, mainly because it actually works to his advantage with the "Bruce Wayne: Playboy" image that is part of his disguise. His antics will always be front-page news in the same way that a lot of modern celebrities always make the front-page whenever they so much as get out of a vehicle. So he knows that if he needs a good cover story, all he has to do is make the front-page.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:34 p.m. CST

    autodidact (I missed a bit...)

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Hence the "Wayne Absconds With Entire Russian Ballet Company" headline in TDK. Being the most famous man in Gotham actually helps sometimes to provide him with a cover story.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:37 p.m. CST

    dodgy you miss my point...

    by Norman Colson

    I didnt mind keaton fighting. fine it was decent for it's time... batman is supposed to be like that, idk. Batman has serious repetoire of moves and counters it's funny but you read the comics and see the cartoons and you wonder this guy has trained for years being a kung fu bad ass is it that much to see it on film??? Keatonf fought like 3 men, batman in begins and tdk has fought alot. which was cool. And you know what it seemed cool... Like i get it... im not satisfied with one two punch and then it's over. im not 9-10 years old anymore.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:37 p.m. CST

    Batman - Dick Tracy

    by Loosejerk

    Batman '89 was the reason I walked out of Dick Tracy. Once they started heading to an ending with the villain being thrown off a tower, I checked out of that flick. Too soon, I cried! Fist bumps for the Prince praise. I loved how he wanted to push HIS character, Gemini, even more than the movie itself.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:39 p.m. CST

    It's a matter of degree and they overdid it

    by Autodidact

    That's all. I don't need you to explain why it helps for Batman's alter-ego to be well-recognized.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:39 p.m. CST

    Gratuitous hyphens

    by Autodidact

    I gotta tone it down with those.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:39 p.m. CST

    Keaton > Bale

    by Mugato5150

    For one reason, Keaton's Bruce Wayne was visually unhinged. You could see behind his eyes that he was fucked in the head. Bale's Wayne is completely sane, pragmatic. There's nothing about Bale's Batman that separates himself from a straight laced cop except he happens to dress as a bat to scare criminals. There's nothing else interesting about him. He doesn't even drive a Batmobile, his ride is an SUV. And of course there's Gotham City. Burton: gothic, German expressionist surrealistic nightmarish dystopia. Nolan: Chicago. The Joker, I'll give that one to Nolan.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:40 p.m. CST

    autodidact

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Sorry mate. I thought we were just having a conversation. Didn't mean to offend or insinuate that you didn't understand or something.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Anton Furst Gotham Designs FTW

    by Autodidact

    I don't think they used the same guy for Returns. They mostly seemed to put a lot of concrete and giant heads and statues and wrought iron everywhere.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Anton Furst

    by puto tenax

    His design of Gotham gave the look and feel of Metropolis. "Hell erupting from the streets" I believe was used to describe his vision of Gotham. His redesign of the batmobile, in my opinion, exceeds the latest "tank-Lambo" seen on screen. Too bad Furst is no longer with us.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:43 p.m. CST

    darth_kong

    by proevad

    They're a beautiful person man, they didn't have to wave to me--but they DID man--they DID.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:43 p.m. CST

    yeah was Prince's first really bad album

    by Rupee88

    and the movie was that good either. It should have been called "Joker" as the movie as about him, not Batman. But I saw it at the theater in 1989 and thought it was sucky then and nothing has changed.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:45 p.m. CST

    In other words, don't dump on

    by proevad

    someone that might have once came into some minor social contact with one of the writers. This is my 3rd IP address in 10 years.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:45 p.m. CST

    I'm not offended

    by Autodidact

    Bad phrasing on my part. Was trying to make sure you knew I understood why it's necessary for Bruce Wayne to be high profile. I just don't see why his father has to be a massive tycoon who was a father to the entire city. It feels overwrought and I feel it undercuts the verisimilitude as well as the heroism.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:46 p.m. CST

    mugato

    by Darth_Tarantino

    In fairness to Nolan's Gotham, they were going for a realistic looking city for the story to take place in. The more fantastical Gotham of Burton's films works for those films (even if I don't like those films) but it wouldn't work for Nolan's approach. And as much as I love Nolan's films and consider them the best Batman films to date, I do hope the next series of Bat-Flicks take an entirely different approach and be a little more fantastical again. I'd love to see something as nightmarish/bizarre as the way Arkham looks in Grant Morrison's "Arkham Asylum" comic.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:47 p.m. CST

    I would LOVE to see . . .

    by Nice Marmot

    . . . Nolan's bat-films set in Burton's Gotham City ...

  • July 1, 2011, 6:51 p.m. CST

    nice marmot

    by Darth_Tarantino

    I like the idea of having Nolan's trilogy of Bat-Flicks that are closer to some sort of reality and then starting a new series that are more fantastical. What you suggest might just be the way to do it! But no re-telling of the origin story, just take it as read and get on with it.

  • July 1, 2011, 6:52 p.m. CST

    Burton is just plain lousy...

    by Mr Soze

    Except Ed Wood

  • July 1, 2011, 6:53 p.m. CST

    Vengance of Bane

    by Autodidact

    Any other old-ass AICN people read this comic back in the day when it was fresh and new? BANE is a bad-ass character and in the right hands (Nolan's are the corrrect hands) he oughta be really fucking scary on-screen.

  • The Nolan approach has it's place. If anybody wanted to see how "realistic" Batman can be, there you go. But Nolan's Batman is not a comic book movie. It's a crime thriller with characters who seem to resemble comic book characters by freak coincidence rather than by design. Batman '89 is such a brilliant translation of the comic book medium (not just the characters) that Warren Betty obviously was inspired to do Dick Tracy very similarly (and much less successfully, because the source material is much less successful).

  • July 1, 2011, 6:57 p.m. CST

    autodidact

    by Darth_Tarantino

    I'm only 28 (my birthday today, in fact!) but I do remember reading "Vengeance Of Bane" when I was in my teens. One of my favourites, for sure. Personally, I still love "Knightfall". Hoping some elements of that will surface in TDKR.

  • I didn't read Dark Knight Returns until after seeing 89 Batman. I remember reading constantly about how the movie was mostly inspired by that comic. Burton's Batman has very little, almost nothing to do with Frank Miller's 80s Batman stuff. And Nolan's Dark Knight has even less to do with it.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:02 p.m. CST

    If you're going to reboot Batman again... go Miller

    by Autodidact

    We haven't really had a "grim 'n gritty" comic-book movie aside from the Punisher movies. I'd love to see a faithful adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns done in hyper-stylized live-action as one single 2.5 hour movie. Not as stylized as the Sin City movies. More just art-directed to the gills with really snappy dialogue and the action has got to be really bone crunching. Done right I think it would be as big a hit or bigger as The Dark Knight.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:04 p.m. CST

    I'd Cast That Avatar Guy as Bruce Wayne

    by Autodidact

    You know, the bad guy with the brush cut. What's-his-face.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:06 p.m. CST

    Pre-insanity Miller or post-insanity?

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Remember that this is the man who gave us the excellent "Batman: Year One" and the influential "The Dark Knight Returns" but who then, at some point, went totally insane and produced the god-awful "The Dark Knight Strikes Again" and then went all the way past insanity and created THE GODDAMN BATMAN!!

  • July 1, 2011, 7:11 p.m. CST

    Pre, Obviously

    by Autodidact

    I didn't even read that new shit. Dark Knight Returns Again was weird. I think people were so disappointed at the change in tone and style that it didn't sit well on first read. Have to say I liked it better re-reading it again several years after it came out. The art is what really kills it. Just atrocious.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:13 p.m. CST

    The artwork is god-awful...

    by Darth_Tarantino

    ...but worse, I just hate that Miller turned Batman into a total fucking arsehole and then, in "All-Star Batman and Robin" turned him into a psychotic child snatcher!

  • July 1, 2011, 7:16 p.m. CST

    The summer of '89...

    by Polo Chavez

    ...kicked ass. I loved the hype from the Movie Time channel (before it became E!). I remember digging on all the merchandise used to promote this movie. I saw The Last Crusade that same summer too...ah...I miss being 11... At the time. I was not used to seeing the Batmobile in this movie, but it grew on me, as did Keaton. I was used to seeing Adam West and the '60s Batmobile. I loved how Kenner brought back the Super Powers figures too.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:17 p.m. CST

    I always hated the bat-boys in TDKR

    by Autodidact

    I'd take that whole part right out of the ending.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:21 p.m. CST

    autodidact

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Just go with me on this one; do you think TDKR would work better in film form if it were simply about Batman coming out of retirement to stop the "mutant" gang and then have the final confrontation with The Joker? Because for me those are the most compelling parts of the story.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:31 p.m. CST

    Yes.. Leave Robin Out

    by Autodidact

    You'd have to pare down lots of stuff. What's essential is a near-future setting, and getting the full intensity and tone of the atmosphere. If they had to split it into two movies I think a good choice would be to take the "versus Superman" part of the story and make it a whole separate movie. Like maybe the government goes after Batman after he takes down the mutant gang. I don't think WB would allow Superman to be portrayed that way, though. I haven't read it in years but doesn't two-face also pop up in the middle of TDKR?

  • July 1, 2011, 7:36 p.m. CST

    2 films could work

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Two-Face is actually quite near the beginning. In fact he's one of the reasons Batman comes out of retirement. If you were to make 2 films I don't see why you couldn't have Two-Face and the Mutants in film 1, the climax being The Joker's parole and then film 2 has Batman's final confrontation with The Joker. That final moment where Batman still won't bring himself to kill The Joker so Joker kills himself to incriminate Batman? That always, always sends a shiver down my spine because it's just the perfect ending between them. And then that perfectly sets up the rest of film 2 - everyone thinks Batman finally killed The Joker and when the police fail to bring him in, the government sends in Superman.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:39 p.m. CST

    '89 Batman

    by Horgy

    What made '89 Batman special was that Burton actually made Batman dark again in the mainstream consciousness. Sure Batman in the comics had been dark for a while after the Silver Age, but most people knew and remembered Batman from the TV show. Burton got away from that, brought Batman back to the night, back to his darker roots, back to a Joker who killed people with a laugh and a Batman who could kick ass with more than the Batusi. Was it over the top? You bet your ass. Was it TIM BURTON IN ALL CAPS up on the screen? Oh FUCK yeah. The performances were deliciously over-the-top, and there was absolutely no subtlety to anything. But it reminded people that Batman was supposed to operate at night, and kick ass, and that it could be dark, but still be fun. <p> And as bad as ASB&R was, I really hope that the "goddamn Batman" line shows up in the next movie.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:40 p.m. CST

    I love this movie

    by dukeroberts

    Seriously. I still do. Keaton's Batman was a bad ass. I was obsessed with this movie in the summer of 1989.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:42 p.m. CST

    ^ I guess that's the connection to Miller

    by Autodidact

    The darkness and gloominess...

  • July 1, 2011, 7:45 p.m. CST

    Burtons Batman....

    by Fritzlorrerains

    Is amazing

  • July 1, 2011, 7:46 p.m. CST

    horgy

    by Darth_Tarantino

    If I ever went to see a Batman film that included him barking the line "I'm the goddamn Batman!" I would walk out, there and then :P

  • July 1, 2011, 7:46 p.m. CST

    Nicholson's joker > ledger's joker

    by Fritzlorrerains

    By far. He was more demented.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:52 p.m. CST

    Keaton's performance wows me now

    by Kammich

    I was about 14 months old when "Batman" came out in '89, and probably didn't see the film for the first time until I was about 9(when I became fascinated by it and watched it on VHS nearly every day for an entire Summer). Had I been a coherent living being at the time, I assume my thoughts going into the film would've been something along the lines of, "wait what, bill blazejowski from night shift is gonna be Batman?!" And while the film has not aged well, ONE thing does continue to be the strength of the movie... Keaton's performance. He fucking nails it. He plays the playboy side of Bruce Wayne as wealthy and charming, but still sheltered and somewhat shy. Which is how I'd imagine it to be; an orphaned rich kid being raised by his Butler in a giant mansion... I don't think he'd grow up to be a ravishing swashbuckler. Keaton plays the "dark" side of Bruce Wayne even better. When he's sitting in the bat cave, watching tape of the Joker, he looks like he's one tick away from completely snapping. All the angst and emotion of his fractured childhood is boiling up inside of him and he's ready to just unload and beat the everloving christ out of every morally suspect human being in Gotham... and thats exactly how I picture my Batman to be. So regardless of the cheesy Prince soundtrack, the in-your-face production design, and Jack's ham-fisted performance... Keaton will still always be THE definitive Batman for me(and this is coming from someone who had been calling for Bale to be Batman back in 2002; he has yet to deliver on my expectations).

  • July 1, 2011, 7:52 p.m. CST

    korus1234

    by Darth_Tarantino

    I disagree. Demented does not equal sinister. Over the top does not equal funny. Nicholson, in my opinion, played Nicholson just in Joker make-up. I've read Batman comics since childhood and had an image in my mind of what The Joker was. In the animated series, Mark Hamill was the closest thing to how I pictured the character. Then Heath Ledger came along - and I was against him playing the role. I was a Ledger fan but I just felt the idea of him playing The Joker was awful. And then when I saw TDK I saw The Joker as I always imagined him in my mind. That's why Ledger's Joker trumps Nicholson's Joker for me. But hey, everyone's got a favourite Joker :)

  • July 1, 2011, 7:53 p.m. CST

    Ledger's Joker Was All Butt-Hurt

    by Autodidact

    There was too much pain behind his madness. And his scheme was too purposeful. I prefer Nicholson's true psychotic clown.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:56 p.m. CST

    Stephen Lang for Bruce Wayne in The Dark Knight Returns

    by Autodidact

    That's the guys' name.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:56 p.m. CST

    autodidact

    by Darth_Tarantino

    I saw no pain behind Ledger's Joker. If you're refering to his stories about his scars, that's just him fucking with people. Same as when he tells Two-Face that he's not a guy with a plan; bullshit, he's telling Two-Face what he needs to hear so that he can manipulate him. From my perspective, Ledger's Joker didn't have any real emotion beside glee - glee at the havoc he can cause.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:58 p.m. CST

    Not to Diss Ledger

    by Autodidact

    My preference between them is like the preference between my favourite sandwich and my favourite taco. I really love them both and citing a preference is just for the sake of discussion.

  • July 1, 2011, 7:59 p.m. CST

    He was trying to make a point to Batman

    by Autodidact

    That was his purpose. Joker's Nicholson was the one who really had no purpose other than glee.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:02 p.m. CST

    Fair point, autodidact...

    by Darth_Tarantino

    ...he was trying to make a point, but he was clearly having immense fun whilst doing it! :D I don't see pain there. I also hate the back-story they give The Joker in Burton's Batman. Especially the part about him killing Bruce Wayne's parents. We don't need to know how and why The Joker exists; only that he does exist and can't be predicted.

  • Assuming he did it to himself. I bet e any psychologist would tell you that was the result of some serious psychic pain. AKA butt-hurt

  • July 1, 2011, 8:04 p.m. CST

    Joker killing Bruce's parents is a travesty

    by Autodidact

    I hate it for the same reason I hate Wayne Plaza and Wayne Monorail. Getting personal revenge on the guy who killed your parents is not really heroic.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:05 p.m. CST

    Huh, autodidact?

    by Mugato5150

    How was there pain behind Ledger's Joker? His made up stories of how he got his scars? That was all bullshit and he thought it was hilarious. And purposeful? What did he do that was purposeful? First he robs a bank, burns half his loot, tosses Rachael out the window for the hell of it, dares Batman to run him over, gives Harvey a loaded gun and dares him to shoot him, demands for someone to come through with Batman's identity then threatens to blow up a hospital if the informant isn't killed...he was the embodiment of anarchy, the antithesis of purpose.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:07 p.m. CST

    .. The whole point is he never gets his vengeance

    by Autodidact

    Every time he punches a criminal out, in a part of his mind 10 year-old Bruce Wayne is saving his parents. If he achieves closure by killing the guy who killed his parents, that sort of undercuts the motivation, the psychological fabric of the character. I understand why it would be done for screenplay reasons but it's short-sighted. Batman Returns should have started with Bruce on the beach not taking any calls. Batman Forever addressed this by Bruce counselling Robin not to kill two-face because revenge leaves you empty.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:08 p.m. CST

    You fucking idiots. I know he was lying about the scars

    by Autodidact

    Why do people assume you're making some trivial error of basic textual comprehension. I absorbed the surface-level details of the story, you cunts. Any guy who carves a smile into his face is butt-hurt. I don't care if it gives him psyschotic glee to do so.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:09 p.m. CST

    mugato

    by Darth_Tarantino

    All true, but as autodidact pointed out The Joker WAS trying to make a point to Batman and, ultimately, was trying to see if he could corrupt Batman. But I agree with YOU when it comes to this issue of pain; autodidact says that he sees pain in the fact that The Joker cut a smile into his face. But as I pointed out before, that was just one of his stories and he clearly relishes the chance make these stories up and fuck with people. He seems to find it funny to pretend he is emotionally vulnerable one minute and then the next minute to be (seemingly) a total lunatic.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:12 p.m. CST

    Was one of his stories that he did it to himself?

    by Autodidact

    He told the old guy his dad did it. Did he tell someone else he did it to himself? I thought he told lies about it and then I just figured/assumed he did it to himself. Seems like something he'd do.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:12 p.m. CST

    Sorry for the outburst there

    by Autodidact

    I think my blood sugar is low.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:13 p.m. CST

    Okaaay...

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Autodidact - I totally agree with your analysis of why having The Joker being the killer of Bruce's parents is a total betrayal of Batman's motivation. And nobody thinks you don't know The Joker was lying, but you're assuming he carved his face up based solely on one of his lies as there is no other evidence in the film to suggest he was the one who scarred his face. And I don't like being called a cunt in a conversation that I'm enjoying, especially being called a cunt by someone who is clearly above such silly name calling.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:16 p.m. CST

    Liam Neeson...

    by Ricky Retardo

    ...would have been the perfect Batman in the first Burton film. Keaton was way too short. I stood near him at a film shoot. He was a lot shorter than me and I'm 5' 10'.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:19 p.m. CST

    retardo

    by Darth_Tarantino

    For some reason, I've never really thought too much about Batman's height! :P

  • July 1, 2011, 8:19 p.m. CST

    This movie rocks

    by Brigon

    I was 9 at the time it was out so all the flaws that people bring up these days like Batman doesn't kill didn't matter to me. I spent the Spring collecting Batman cards that would come in the chewing gum packets. In fact the whole school collected them and we spent the breaks swapping Batman 89 cards. I had the game on the Amstrad CPC, and later got it on the Amiga 500 (in colour!). The Batmobile in this movie was (imo) the best version we have ever seen, and the Batwing was an amazing sight as it glided up to form the bat insignia against the moon then fell back down, to take out the balloons that were filled with Smilex. My brother had the Batwing toy, and the Batman figure. I had the Joker and Bob (the Jokers goon). In the years after I probably saw the movie a 50-60 times, and can pretty much quote the whole thing even now. I personally prefer the Burton movies to the Nolan ones, but can see how that version is closer to the comics, and people who aren't filled with the nostalgia that this movie gives me might prefer them.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:22 p.m. CST

    brigon

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Nostalgia is a powerful thing and there's nothing wrong with loving what other people see as an imperfect film because you loved it as a kid. I can't imagine trying to defend "Hook" to anyone, but I still love it because of nostalgia!

  • July 1, 2011, 8:22 p.m. CST

    I remember during the very early Chicago filming

    by Kammich

    That a lot of people who witnessed the opening IMAX bank robbery scene being filmed, were "informed" by people on the crew that Batman was supposed to intervene and one of his fastened ziplines was supposed to snap and slice Joker across the mouth. Obviously, nothing of the sort is in the film... and that type of "personally-scarred-by-Batman-so-I-need-retribution" motive seems far below what the Nolan brothers would've conjured up... so I guess that was all just bullshit. Does anyone else remember that? I greatly, greatly prefer the ambiguous portrayal of the scars and the Joker in general. Between the written ambiguity and Ledger's (untimely) death, Nolan's Joker will always be something of legend. In a way, I'm happy that he couldn't show up in another sequel... it cements a masterfully written and masterfully performed villain for all of time.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:25 p.m. CST

    kammich

    by Darth_Tarantino

    "Does anyone else remember that? I greatly, greatly prefer the ambiguous portrayal of the scars and the Joker in general. Between the written ambiguity and Ledger's (untimely) death, Nolan's Joker will always be something of legend. In a way, I'm happy that he couldn't show up in another sequel... it cements a masterfully written and masterfully performed villain for all of time." I totally agree mate. I will add just one thing; even if Ledger hadn't died, I wouldn't have wanted him to appear again as The Joker. I prefer it when characters are memorable rather than over-used.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:26 p.m. CST

    @fat_rancor_keeper yes and no

    by sunwukong86

    Nolan's Bruce Wayne is smart. Nolan's Batman is a dumb thug. Whenever he does the things you mention he's still Bruce Wayne. What Im saying is he should still be this smart when he's Batman.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:26 p.m. CST

    Bob Kane LOVED Clooney

    by barneyshouldbeputdown

    He commented at the time that finally they got a guy who LOOKS and feels like Bruce Wayne. Clooney was arguably the most appropriate to play the brawny, troubled playboy, but he was stuck in the worst film and saddled with a director high on his own preposterous body odor. A shame for him.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:26 p.m. CST

    Who Would Win in a Confrontation (not fistfight)?

    by Autodidact

    Nolan joker or Burton joker? I'd have to give it to Nolan joker as he was a bit more suicidal. I like how in both performances there's a parallel moment where Joker titters slightly at the prospect of plunging to his doom.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:26 p.m. CST

    ...Most appropriate to that point.

    by barneyshouldbeputdown

    Just clarifyin'.

  • July 1, 2011, 8:32 p.m. CST

    autodidact

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Totally! When he laughs as he's falling, it tells you so much about the character: - It tells you that he thinks he's won, thinks he's proven that the Batman will kill if he has to and thus is corruptible. - It tells you that this is all just a big joke to him and that his own fate is not a significant part of the outcome for him. - It tells you that on some level, for all his cunning and intelligence and ingenuity, there IS a part of him that is just totally barking mad! :P

  • July 1, 2011, 8:48 p.m. CST

    Danny Elfman's Batman score is one of my top-ten favorites...

    by Nasty In The Pasty

    ...up there with Superman, Star Wars and Conan The Barbarian. It alone takes some fairly clumsy action choreography and makes it feel like the most thrilling footage EVER by sheer force of will. As much as I like the Nolan films, the music fucking SUCKS and adds NOTHING to the experience of watching them. Both Elfman and later Shirley Walker (on Batman: TAS) pretty much nailed the Batman "sound", and no one since has managed to come close.

  • July 1, 2011, 9:09 p.m. CST

    @barneyshouldbeputdown Kane actually said it was Val Kilmer

    by sunwukong86

  • <p>In one of the earliest issues of Batman, written by Bill Finger, Batman deliberately swings down on his rope and with his feet breaks the neck of a thug looking out a window. It really surprised me when I read the Batman Omnibus 1. And in The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller, Batman murders the Joker.</p> <p>Also, in the early Superman stories by Shuster and Siegel, Superman was vulnerable to fire. And Lois Lane was the biggest bitch on Earth. In one issue she actually drugs Clark at a dinner so she could get the scoop on a story before he does. But the drug doesn't affect Superman.</p>

  • July 1, 2011, 9:20 p.m. CST

    Oops I was wrong about the Dark Knight Returns, though

    by successor

    Joker snaps his own spine and then Batman blows him up.

  • July 1, 2011, 9:57 p.m. CST

    The best thing to come out of Burton's Batman movies?

    by Anthrax

    That it led to Warner's greenlighting The Animated Series. '89 Batman has it's charm, but it's deeply flawed. First of all, there's simply no way in hell Burton ever looked at even a single panel of a Frank Miller Batman book. The idea that Year One was his main inspiration for the film is a joke. I also really don't appreciate messing with the core of a character, and stripping him of everything that motivates his actions. What motivation is there for Bruce to continue fighting crime if he saw to the death of his parent's killer? None whatsoever. I don't much like the look of it, either. Simply put, it looks like it's shot on a back lot, which severely limits the scope of the photography. You don't ever get to see Gotham City, the place never gets to become another character in the story like it's meant to be. Which brings me to the tone of the film. Again, simply put, Burton missed the mark. Prince was a poor choice (especially when you have a superior score for the film,) Joker really never had that one scary moment, where you could take him seriously as a threat to Batman, and the city of Gotham itself is portrayed as being like any other city, except for the fact that it was apparently stuck in the 1950's. There didn't really appear to be any real need for Batman in that Gotham. There's quite a bit of good in the movie, too. Keaton's performance is inspired, and Nicholson, while taking some liberties with the character, gave the Joker his much needed charisma and charm back (There was a time there when everybody was trying to one up Alan Moore's overrated Killing Joke, and as a result Joker was becoming a pretty boring monster.) Michael Gough also deserves an incredibly amount of praise for being a pitch perfect Alfred. I always loved the design of the Bat-Suit, the Batmobile, and the plane. There are also more than a few little moments that help to define the characters and the world they live and operate in (Like Bats asking Kimmy how much she weighs before using one of his grappling hooks... That moment always makes me smile. Totally a Batman question.) The score is also wonderful. So yeah, there are some moments there, but overall it's too uneven, and too far off from the source material for me. I'm not really a stickler for that last point, but changing the core of the 'mythology' or the characters of any story is a big, big no-no. The movie is saved by two things: That it was the first major Batman film to take itself seriously (So it can and should be forgiven for some of it's faux pas, as it was sort of a prototype) and that it helped spawn what became the definitive treatment of the character in Batman The Animated Series.

  • July 1, 2011, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Love it. Post a Burton Batman pic every day...

    by fathergreedosarducci

    ...and it would be a long thread full of all kinds of interesting perspectives. This is the Godfather of superhero movies: it has flaws, it's self-indulgent in places, but my God it hit it out of the park and made a whole genre safe(r) for other filmmakers to come out and play. My favorite scene in the '89 Batman is Bruce Wayne confronting the Joker. Not Batman, mind you, but Bruce Wayne. With a silver tray and a fireplace poker, he out-Jokers the Joker and that great "WTF?" glance from Nicholson-- perfect. Shows just what Keaton could do and how well Burton really did understand both the characters. I remember reading, years ago-- maybe in Starlog? maybe in Comic Buyer's Guide (during the Good Old Days when the Thompsons ran it, and ran it beautifully)-- that Burton's original choice for the Joker was Ray Liotta, who was still riding high after that great job in Something Wild. But WB wanted a big-name actor to help carry the big-budget film, so Burton didn't get his way and Nicholson was cast. Has anybody else ever read that, or I'm just going crazy (ier)?

  • July 1, 2011, 10:21 p.m. CST

    YOU WANNA GET NUTS?! LET'S GET NUTS!

    by Nasty In The Pasty

    Yeah, that scene in Vicki Vale's apartment where Bruce threatens The Joker with the poker (sounds like a folk song title...) was pretty badass. Yeah, he knew he was wearing a "bullet proof vest", but to stand toe-to-toe with an armed supervillain with two henchmen as backup as your altar ego took balls. And you rarely get to see Bruce Wayne in any of the Batman films do anything truly heroic/kickass out of costume.

  • July 1, 2011, 10:36 p.m. CST

    Keaton could do TDKR

    by KoolerThanJesus

    He's got the age now and I think could still pull it off.

  • I don't think either DC or Warner's quite have the balls to do it. First they would have to get past the fact that they've given the go ahead to make a film in which two of their most popular franchise's are depicted as a borderline psychotic neo-fascist, and the worst kind of political weaponry imaginable respectively. All the potential in the world is there, I just don't see it happening.

  • July 1, 2011, 11:36 p.m. CST

    I wouldn't mind dancing with the devil in the pale moonlight.

    by Yelsaeb

  • July 1, 2011, 11:40 p.m. CST

    Batman was a major letdown

    by The Shroud

    Firstly, most of us Batman fans had just been treated with Alan Moore's Killing Joke. Don't do a Joker origin if you can't top that one (or at least equal). Nolan didn't try to do Joker origin, though he hinted it and a thinnest of nod to Killing Joke. Secondly, the movie's screenwriter, Sam Hamm, wrote a three parter in Detective Comics that came out just before the release of the Movie. It was AWESOME. No rogues gallery, just good whodunnit detective story with a twist at the end. Given the two factors above, the movie stank

  • July 1, 2011, 11:50 p.m. CST

    Ugh... The Killing Joke.

    by Anthrax

    Will it ever go away?

  • July 1, 2011, 11:55 p.m. CST

    Keaton has no chin!

    by Orionsangels

  • July 2, 2011, 12:17 a.m. CST

    Ah back when Batman lived in Gotham. Not Downton Chicago.

    by Onin Solstice

  • July 2, 2011, 12:28 a.m. CST

    Favorite of the Burton films...

    by Superthug3000

    But it wasn't without its problems. As much as I love Keaton in the part, Alec Baldwin would have owned this. Need proof check out his performance in The Shadow. Another change I would have made, and this will get alot of slack would have been to cast Willem Dafoe as The Joker. He already had the perfect jawline and could've definitely played a great Clown prince of Crime. Great performances were given by all and Returns could've been so much better if they would have kept Two-Face in the script and did away with the Max Schreck character.

  • July 2, 2011, 1:13 a.m. CST

    Another Logic-Defying Movie from Tim Burton

    by The Bear

    Problems with "Batman": - Joker announce on TV that he's going to be in the parade...so, um, where are the cops? Did they take the day off? - Batman rescues people from those horrible balloons full of poison gas by dragging them out to sea...and letting them loose? Um, do you think maybe the wind might blow them back over the city...or a different city...or over a cruise ship...or a cargo ship...or... - Joker rushes up to the top of the church where his henchmen have a helicopter waiting. Um, how did the henchmen know the Joker was going to be up there? Where'd they get the helicopter so fast? All right, all right, maybe I'm nitpicking, but even watching this as a kid, these things bugged me. And I've had the same problems with the logic in "Plant of the Apes"...and "Edward Scissorhands"...and... 'Nuff said.

  • July 2, 2011, 3:02 a.m. CST

    There were so many things I hated about this Batman

    by RoarsLoudly

    Starting with the casting of Keaton to the disappointing Prince soundtrack and Im a huge Prince fan! For me the films saving grace was Nicholson.

  • July 2, 2011, 3:51 a.m. CST

    autodidact

    by Ace of Wands

    He told the old guy his dad did it. Did he tell someone else he did it to himself? ...

  • July 2, 2011, 3:55 a.m. CST

    You idiot, you made me remember?

    by Righteous Brother

    I made you, you made me first

  • July 2, 2011, 3:56 a.m. CST

    what I hated about his movie

    by WINONA_RYDERS_PUSSY_JUICE

    all the coolest money shots from action scenes were all in the trailer.

  • July 2, 2011, 3:56 a.m. CST

    and they showed the trailer 20 trillion times

    by WINONA_RYDERS_PUSSY_JUICE

  • July 2, 2011, 3:56 a.m. CST

    autodidact

    by Ace of Wands

    for some reason only part of my post appeared above; I went on to say that that, yes, The Joker did tell the story/lie to someone that he gave himself the scars. He told Rachael that he had given himself the scars to match those given to his wife by loan sharks. And also, wasn't it Gamble to who he told the story/lie about his abusive father giving him the scars? By the way, there is nothing wrong with The Goddamn Batman. Millers telling of those stories is in perfect continuity from Year One to the The Dark Knight Returns. Just a Goddamn opinion, of course.

  • July 2, 2011, 4:05 a.m. CST

    Is Keaton really that tall?

    by Ironhelix

    Or is that guy really short?

  • July 2, 2011, 5:21 a.m. CST

    the parade scene bugged me too

    by WINONA_RYDERS_PUSSY_JUICE

    It's kinda cheesy

  • July 2, 2011, 5:55 a.m. CST

    successor

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Batman does NOT murder The Joker in "The Dark Knight Returns". Batman cripples him during the fight but won't bring himself to kill The Joker. He still won't cross that line. So that's why The Joker then breaks his own neck in order to incriminate Batman and lead the police to think Batman murdered The Joker.

  • July 2, 2011, 5:57 a.m. CST

    Baldwin Keaton

    by RumpleWho

    Baldwin as Batman, Keaton as Joker?

  • July 2, 2011, 5:59 a.m. CST

    Keaton had a presence, costume or not

    by RocketScientist

    Bale needs the costume to really be someone. And no, it's not a sign that Bale can better portray the superficiality show that is Bruce Wayne better - he doesn't need to do that with either Alfred or Lucius Fox. But even with either of them, it is extremely hard to read either genius, obsession or actual observational skills from him. With Keaton, one look conveyed that nothing escaped his attention. This is a real problem for Bale given that he's partnered in precisely these scenes with Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine. Now I don't doubt that Bale CAN act in principle, but I don't think this is the kind of role fit for him. Though frankly, given he did "The Machinist" before he did "Batman begins", I'm not sure what his problem is. Perhaps it's just that the contrast to Caine and Freeman is too stark, but the way it seems to me in those scenes, they'd outact him gagged, blindfolded and hogtied...

  • July 2, 2011, 7:10 a.m. CST

    Nolan's Batman never builds/invents anything himself

    by Chewtoy

    He embezzled it all from his company (which is publically traded, as per the first film. Wayne is just the majority shareholder. So the assets being "all his anyway" isn't remotely true.) And he doesn't build the spy device that links all of the cities cel phones. It's a plot point that the accountant guy finds an error, follows it to see some top secret project is using an entire research department or something, then digs and finds the Batmobile. But Fox didn't know about the project that the accountant originally discovered and asks Wayne about it, who dodges the question... That's the sonar thing. He was using company resources to design and build it for him.

  • July 2, 2011, 7:10 a.m. CST

    Re: anthrax

    by Chris

    Joker really never had that one scary moment, where you could take him seriously as a threat to Batman. I think that he did have that moment but it wasn't even with Batman. It was when he confronted Jack Palance's character after his change. That scene he was at his most menacing. I also had a problem with him killing in both of the Burton films. Blowing up the chemical plant with all the goons inside was just wrong. But you're right that it did bring us B:TAS which also brought us some of the great superhero animation series.

  • July 2, 2011, 7:51 a.m. CST

    batman returns > batman

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I just think the first one was slightly muddled between a un-Burton-like script and Burton doing his thing. The second movie is more consistently in Burton's wheelhouse. What a weird fun movie.

  • July 2, 2011, 8:46 a.m. CST

    intentional homages to Batman89 in BB/TDK?

    by CARTMANEZ

    -'What are you!?'...'Im Batman!' -girl getting rescued by Batman and driven to the bat cave where she is giving vital info about gas -gasing gotham -the joker goading batman on a bike - the joker goading batman in the batwing also someone said elements of the Elfman score can be heard somewhere in TDK but i have NO idea where this is (pretty sure its BS)

  • July 2, 2011, 8:49 a.m. CST

    Still one of the most quotable films.

    by henrydalton

    Great lines. Bob, gun.

  • July 2, 2011, 9:08 a.m. CST

    fathergreedosarducci, that confrontation scene is awesome

    by Inexplicable_Nuclear_Balls

    I love how Keaton goes bugfuck nuts for a couple seconds just before the Joker says the "death quote" that snaps him out of it. I was 18 when it came out, and I was head over heels into it. I had already seen the movie twice before opening day by sneaking into a couple advance showings. Then I proceeded to watch it twice again on that opening day (wearing my Batman logo Converse and matching logo shirt and hat), and a few more times throughout the weekend. So I'm certainly biased in my appreciation for the film. I know it's far from perfect, I even recognized that at the time. You have to keep in mind how different the comic book movie landscape was back then. It essentially didn't exist outside of the quickly fizzling Superman franchise. The casting choices may not seem like a big deal now, but back then they were unreal. Everybody was blown away by Nicholson's Joker, who again at the time was amazingly edgy. It's just like rock music... when he first appeared, Alice Cooper was shocking and scary. Nowadays he's no big deal. Other than the abortion that was Schumacher's Batman, I've enjoyed all the film versions. Different artists have portrayed Bats in many different ways throughout the years, so why not expect various adaptations from bigtime directors? I just wish I could go back and remove the part with the Joker killing Bruce's parents... that was a crappy choice. If you don't like Burton's take, keep in mind it could have been much worse - we came close to a Batman film played up as a campy big-screen version of the TV series starring Bill Murray!

  • July 2, 2011, 9:29 a.m. CST

    'Not this one, I kind of like it.' :p

    by blueant

    I don't care what people say, Nicholson made so many funny quips as the joker. He did a good job. I was hoping for a more built Batman, Like Mel Gibson but Keaton was better than I thought, he knows how to be eccentric, quirky. Batman II seemed to rely too much on violence. Batmans after that....I didn't even bother to watch. They reduced themselves to looking like Amusement Park spectacles, stupid props, actors all were miscast afterwards.

  • July 2, 2011, 9:38 a.m. CST

    Anyone else hate Bale's Batman voice?

    by sunwukong86

    Seriously, listen to his monologues in TDK.

  • July 2, 2011, 9:38 a.m. CST

    ricky retardo: Darkman

    by Nem_Wan

    Neeson got to do his thing. Obviously, casting Keaton as Bruce Wayne was counterintuitive. To me, being short provides a very good reason to have the bat suit be startling enough that some opponents aren't even sure it's a human being attacking. Adam West's bat suit was just a colorful uniform like Superman's costume. Batman '89 was the first live-action depiction of the suit believably striking fear into someone at night. By the time you figure out the guy is short he's already got you.

  • July 2, 2011, 10:01 a.m. CST

    '89 Batman = best Batman on film ever.

    by Ditko

    And that´s kinda it.

  • July 2, 2011, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Robin Williams

    by maxwello

    Does anybody else remember Robin Williams being interviewed in the early 90's saying that he had been offered the Joker, and then a few days later learning from a news report that Jack Nicholson had been given the part. He seemed a little bitter, making jokes in his routine for a while about not being given any scripts that didn't have Jack's notes in them, or smell like his cologne? This would have been early wild-eyed Williams. Kind of an Eric Stoltz/Marty McFly alternate universe. I think it could have worked. Williams just didn't have the name recognition. He had the crazy, though, back before the Patch Adams era that he didn't get back to unitl One Hour Photo.

  • July 2, 2011, 10:12 a.m. CST

    @cartmanez: TDK score quoting Elfman

    by RichardBarrett

    The most obvious spot (which is a direct statement of Elfman's theme) is :14-:18 of track 2, "I'm Not a Hero", on the score CD. In the film, this is heard at 6:27-6:32, during the transition shots from the bank robbery to Major Crimes.

  • July 2, 2011, 10:13 a.m. CST

    @cartmanez: TDK score quoting Elfman

    by RichardBarrett

    The most obvious spot (which is a direct statement of Elfman's theme) is :14-:18 of track 2, "I'm Not a Hero", on the score CD. In the film, this is heard at 6:27-6:32, during the transition shots from the bank robbery to Major Crimes.

  • July 2, 2011, 10:21 a.m. CST

    I hate Bales voice

    by truenotes1

    As Wayne with his lisp, and as Batman and his growling lisp.

  • July 2, 2011, 11:33 a.m. CST

    Burton's batcostume is far better than Nolans

    by smackfu

    I mean I see what Nolan was reaching for with the idea of body armor converted into a bat costume, but he just didn't pull it off well. There are a lot of aesthetic problems with it, mainly around the cowl/neck area. Makes it look like a cheap halloween version of a batman costume. Burton's costume just looks great. It looks like body armor, it looks like a batsuit, just get rid of the yellow insignia and it would be perfect.

  • July 2, 2011, 11:34 a.m. CST

    Yes, Bale's batvoice is laughably terrible

    by smackfu

    This kid's imitation is spot on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgCM46CSwd8

  • July 2, 2011, 11:56 a.m. CST

    I love this movie

    by Winston Smith

    Yes, it's dated, but it's good dated (except for the Prince songs, but they're fairly brief and the one at least happens during important story stuff so it's easier to ignore). The gothic atmosphere, the music, the production design, is all unmatched. There's really nothing else out there like it. That's worth something to me. And I like that Burton made these big comic book movies that in many ways were really about loneliness. That's something blockbusters just never, ever touch. That's reserved for 'dem "indie" films. Also, Nolan's films will date just as much. I can already see people in 20 years when we've got yet another popular Bat reboot saying, "but his movies are so boring visually and they aren't thrilling and there's all those plot holes wah wah wah." I always find it funny when fanboys act like, "well at least Burton's films lead us to here." No... different styles, different times. Nolan's films are far from perfect. They appeal to different sensibilities. And as much as I like Nolan's films (though I'd place BB and TDK about on par quality-wise to each other), I still prefer to watch Burton's... the world they show isn't a world I've really seen anywhere else. Meanwhile, Nolan's films very much fit in with the action psyche of modern movies, even if they're a top example of it. And like I said... big budget movies just don't deal with shit like loneliness. If they ever deal with the idea of being "dejected" from society it's like X-Men where it's a teen type thing and then they find each other and show the world that they're right. I think Burton's films are thematically complex, just as much so as Nolans film's. Of course, Nolan's movies have much more complicated plots, but they still have some goofy shit in them, and as I said... they appeal to the modern sensibilities of the American fanboy. So of course people, TODAY, are gonna be like, "they're soooo much better now dur dur dur."

  • July 2, 2011, 12:11 p.m. CST

    "butt-hurt"????

    by slone13

    What the fuck does THAT mean?

  • July 2, 2011, 12:27 p.m. CST

    This movie had two problems...

    by Tom Fremgen

    Michael Keaton and Prince. Even Pee-Wee Herman would look like Batman in that costume, not good enough. And talk about a waste of million dollar on out of place pop music-ugh. Aside from that, the movie is great! My fav of the original 4. Danny Elfman's music was the highlight of the movie, by far. It was so surprising to see a real superhero film back then.

  • July 2, 2011, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Nolan's costume

    by sunwukong86

    I get the whole realistic approach to it, but the whole not being able to turn your head thing is just dumb

  • July 2, 2011, 4:08 p.m. CST

    richardbarrett - TDK score quoting Elfman

    by CARTMANEZ

    i dont hear it (its the bit where the two crims are talking and one says 'u got more chance of running into something than him')

  • July 2, 2011, 4:23 p.m. CST

    sunwukong86, Burton's Batman couldn't turn his head either

    by Mugato5150

  • July 2, 2011, 5:42 p.m. CST

    Nolan´s "realistic" approach is bullshit.

    by Ditko

    At the end of the day, he´s just a guy wearing a Bat suit to fight crime. I mean, c'mon.

  • July 2, 2011, 6:22 p.m. CST

    Still the one true Batman film.

    by JackPumpkinhead

    Excellent and fun. So much better than the humorless, pathetic "grim and gritty" kindergarten "realism" of Batman V and VI.

  • July 2, 2011, 6:56 p.m. CST

    I liked the first one a lot the first viewing

    by WINONA_RYDERS_PUSSY_JUICE

    There's a lot of cool stuff to enjoy, it's a good movie. It didn't hold up to repeat viewings, however, it is a little clunky. I'd call myself a Tim Burton fan but I much prefer Nolan's Batman films. I'd say that "melonman" is full of shit, and the movies he listed are GREAT films, and a lot of his other movies are good. Really the only one that sucks donkey dick is Planet of the Apes.

  • July 2, 2011, 7:35 p.m. CST

    for anyone who says Nicholson was a shit Joker......

    by JokerFC

    you know fuck all about The Joker character.Jack NAILED Denny O Neils version of the character.he was great.

  • July 2, 2011, 8:49 p.m. CST

    Best Batman of em all.

    by Dkev00

  • July 2, 2011, 9:42 p.m. CST

    Something else '89 got right that Nolan didn't

    by Inexplicable_Nuclear_Balls

    It wasn't a Batman origin film! How often do we bitch these days about too much time wasted on establishing the setup? It was a ballsy move to jump in headfirst back then, considering the mainstream movie-going public wasn't yet trained to understand comic book films. Oh, and the Burton Batmobile totally kicks the ass of whatever that contraption is in the current films. Burton's is a Ferrari, Nolan's is a Volkswagen Thing.

  • July 2, 2011, 10:17 p.m. CST

    Only movie I've ever been to where the audience ...

    by Royston Lodge

    ... actually applauded at the end. I know that's common at festivals, but not at the local megaplex.

  • July 2, 2011, 10:26 p.m. CST

    There's just something about Batman '89...

    by thot

    ...that works and holds up well. It's a great mix of realism and fantasy, exactly what tends to be missing from Nolan's noble efforts. I also prefer the Bat-suit from '89 and Returns, (as well as Forever, act-I). I would love to see the Batman franchise go either all-out Batman circa 1939 (kinda like Big Daddy in "Kick Ass") or lighter like Burton's. And for those who bellyache about Batman killing in Burton's films,..well, read the first couple of years of Detective/Batman comics and see how he was originally conceived until they bowed to pressure and pussified him.

  • July 2, 2011, 10:42 p.m. CST

    @cartmanez re: Zimmer quoting Elfman

    by RichardBarrett

    Yeah, that's the moment. "Dah dah dah DAAAAAAAAAAAAH daaaah...." The main figure of Elfman's theme is, in a minor key, scale degrees 1 - 2 - 3 - flat 6 - 5, outlining a VI Mm7 chord in first inversion with an added passing tone between the third and the fifth. Zimmer at that moment in the score prepares it with a "1, #7-1-2-3" and then does a "#7-1-3-flat 6-5" using the same rhythmic outline as Elfman's theme. There's a difference of all of one note, but it outlines exactly the same sonority (just with an appoggiatura leading into 1 rather than the passing tone between 1 and 3) and it's clearly intended to evoke Elfman. Sorry to be all music theory, if we were in the same room I'd just hum it for you, but I don't know how else to describe it using text.

  • July 2, 2011, 11:05 p.m. CST

    10 reasons to shit on Batman. A mild list.

    by UltraTron

    1: This is a photo of the makeup artist touching up Keaton's prosthetic jaw.(such poor casting he even needs a prosthetic jaw- love his voice though) 2: Aliens and other films had shown us that there was such a thing as visceral, edge of your seat, nail-biting action in perfect harmony with story. It was up to Burton to compete. He didn't seem to know anything about it. I wanted to be on the edge of my seat during Batman. I was not. Batman is slow. In a post Raiders of the Lost ark world- Batman is slow as fuck. 3: No reason for batman's existence is given. Just some guy in a batsuit. This was the first movie. Everyone bitches about origins thesedays. This was the one to have an origin. 4: Batman appears onscreen for the first time and is immediately gunned down. This is so comical I laughed my ass off in the theater the first time I saw it. Not to mention Batman has never done that in the history of the comics. He would have run up the wall and flipped behind them had I directed the film in 1989. That's what I thought back then. Ya know? Because Batman is always flipping around like an olympic gymnast. Which brings me to reason 5.. 5: Batman does not flip; nor does he give the impression of athletic prowess in his Bruce Wayne persona. He seems to possess the strength of 10 men when he effortlessly lifts people and hangs them over buildings. It's definitely a stretch for the audience to buy. You've already got tons of shit people need to suspend belief for. You really should have cast an obvious athlete. Batman should stand shoulder to shoulder with 6 foot 4 Christopher Reeves in world's finest fashion. You have to at least sell it. Stallone is 5'4". But his back is 8 miles wide on film compared to Keaton's. These are all reason 7 points. 6: Batman hangs upside down while sleeping in ridiculous bat-like fashion. At this point the director is starting to show his absolute hatred for the character.  7: Tim Burton said he never read Batman. (insert expletive here) 8: Batman is played by Mr. Mom. 9:  Arliss is in it. Taller and more formidable looking than Batman. Actually picks up a bat and swings it. He's baseball batman. 10: And the Ultimate Asshole of the Universe award goes to Tim Burton for... Killing the Joker in the first fucking movie ladies and gentlemen. Yes killing the Joker. In the first movie. Well good luck with those other villains. You've killed Lex Luther in the first movie. You have no where to go but reboot.(insert expletive here)

  • Saw it opening night and the crowd was batshit crazy. There was applause when Batman beat the shit out of the two thugs at the beginning of the film and that applause got ratcheted up dramatically to all out cheering when the Batmobile showed up on screen. At the end of the film, people got up and applauded. Never had seen that before, even with Star Wars. I've had a bit of a love/hate relationship with this film over the years, loving when it I first saw it in high school then going through a faze where I just about hated everything about it during my 20s. Now that I'm much older and having read the original Kane and Finger issues of Detective Comics (especially their first 10 issues from 27-37) and I am now well versed in the nuances of the golden age, Burton's Batman is back to being one of my all time favorite films. Its Batman as Kane and Finger intended--a dangerous, unpredictable vigilante who every once in a while is judge, jury and executioner. Batman is the ultimate badass in Burton's film and its all because of Keaton's portrayal. Love this film.

  • July 3, 2011, 4:58 a.m. CST

    Still Too Campy for Me

    by Queefer Sutherland

    Not nearly as bad as the TV series with Adam West, but all the Batman films before Nolan were too campy. They didn't take Batman seriously enough, and I was dying for that treatment. Nicholson was too old and fat to be the Joker. And he was too over the top. Michael Keaton never convinced me that he could do the things Batman did. Overall I was disappointed. The Burton films were the best of the four, but that isn't saying much. So glad Nolan came along and treated the character with the respect he deserved. Still, this is a fine photo, and worthy of viewing.

  • July 3, 2011, 5 a.m. CST

    And Anybody Who Disagrees With Me

    by Queefer Sutherland

    is welcomed to bite off his mother's labia and eat it raw for dinner.

  • July 3, 2011, 6:29 a.m. CST

    did anyone think Batman Begins was a prequel to Bat89?

    by CARTMANEZ

    a friend of mine who isnt a film geek actually thought BB was a prequel to Batman89. seriously. i think hed been too exposed to prequels coming out around that time showing how everthing started (like SW) and had no idea what a 'reboot' was...plus he probably only had vague memories of Batman 89 no doubt having only seen it when it was out it certainly opened my eyes to how your average guy (who isnt really into movies insofar as seeing them over and over and reading the backstory to how they were made and following movie news on AIC etc and will only catch a movie at the cinema now&then) thinks i guess BB could work as a prequel if you changed edited certain things (Joe Chill to Jack Napier, no joker card scene etc)

  • July 3, 2011, 10 a.m. CST

    Batman works better today as a stand alone movie.

    by UltraTron

    It's like a graphic novel by a different artist with a what if they killed the joker storyline. Because they never bothered with an origin it plays like another serial batman adventure.

  • July 3, 2011, 10:14 a.m. CST

    Does Anybody Think TDK Is a Telling of Dark Knight Returns?

    by Autodidact

    I have a friend who seems to. I don't understand how you can love the medium of comics and never get around to reading Watchmen, Dark Knight, etc... it's like loving movies and never seeing Citizen Kane, or loving novels and never reading Tom Sawyer.

  • July 3, 2011, 10:15 a.m. CST

    .. it makes you basically illiterate

    by Autodidact

    Comics are not exactly an advanced medium and if the best superhero stuff is too "boring" for you, you should probably just admit you're a fucking retard.

  • July 3, 2011, 11:52 a.m. CST

    Batman sucked

    by SPACEHUNTER3-D

    r u guys fucking high? if anything nolan only proved what a piece of shit the burton movies were. 2 batmans done right- and 2 batmans done wrong. keaton sucked. what? cuz he had this stupid confused look on his face, furrowed brow & puckered lips- that means he was "deep". fuckn losers. that movie sucked. it sucked then and it sucked now and Returns was even worse. devito was pathetic. i dont care if burton has a cult following because of all the dumbasses that grew up on nightmare b4 xmas and all those stupid depp movies. burton is a poor storyteller and nolan schooled burton on what a real director does with a famous property. end of story

  • July 3, 2011, 12:58 p.m. CST

    Spacehunter, what makes Nolan's Batman movies so great?

    by nieman

    Did Nolan's movies have thee atmosphere of Gotham? Was Bruce Wayne & Batman more of an adrenaline junkie than anything? The best thing about Nolan's films was Michael Caine as Alfred. He gave the movie a soul. Keaton had the look of someone with issues, and his eyes looked menacing behind the cowl. The Bat-turn gave him style, the action sequences in '89 were better than Begins, even though neither were much to write home about. Also, Batman embezzelled funds and resources from his own company. How can someone supposedly so intelligent do something so blatantly stupid

  • July 3, 2011, 1:26 p.m. CST

    uh, a halfway coherant story for one thing.

    by SPACEHUNTER3-D

    and what action scenes are u referring to? the batmobile autopiloting thru the factory? fuckn clowns doing cartwheels on the streets of gotham? ballons and fucking penguins? are u fucking kidding? what the fuck is that empty falling apart church doing in the middle of gotham anyway? why the fuck is joker leading them up the stairs and why the fuck are there ninja dudes up at the top when he's 'sposed to be alone? why didn't his goons just pick him up on the fucking street...and the whole parade was a dumbass idea anyway. shit just kinda happens in burton movies with no rhyme or reason until you're just numb. when watching either of said batman movies during any so called "action" sequence, just ask yourself "why is this happening?" same goes for any lame burton movie...sleepy hollow etc...the list goes on. it's almost like the dream in inception, there's no logical reason as to how u got there- ur just there and u don't realize how queer it is til u think about it. he almost ruined batman, wonka, alice etc. with his freakshow antics. his editng sux too it's all just so retarded. why- why - why!!!???

  • July 3, 2011, 4 p.m. CST

    autodidact

    by Ace of Wands

    Comics are not exactly an advanced medium...

  • July 3, 2011, 4:48 p.m. CST

    spacehunter3-d

    by proevad

    You need to start posting as much as possible. Burton has made ONE masterpiece. Ed Wood. Why that one? Cuz he got out of his own way. Burton is the poster child for too much shit going on at once.

  • July 3, 2011, 6:43 p.m. CST

    Never rub another man's rhubarb

    by empty_headed_animal

    Batman '89 still the most quotable of all the batman flicks. The joker as an insane clown is just as good a Ledger's dangerous psycho joker. Different performances but equally great.

  • July 3, 2011, 7:52 p.m. CST

    Batman Returns had a great look but no story

    by Orion

    No arc. It had a promising start, but all fell apart, for some reason, when Catwoman and Penguin teamed up. I've always thought Burton was strong on visuals and weak on story. Seriously, Batman ripping his latex mask off to reveal himself and declare his love for Selina all in front of Max Shrek? Batman would never do that, but maybe Tim Burton would. The other thing that pissed me off is they show all of the Penguins umbrella weapons early in the movie but he never actually uses them. Oh and what the fuck is Max Shrek doing in this movie? Tim Burton must've really hated the comic books.

  • July 3, 2011, 7:57 p.m. CST

    The Batman costume looks great but...

    by Orion

    I always felt like 89 made it look like Bruce Wayne put on the costume and became Batman. I never sensed at all that Keaton's character went through anything close to what Bale's did in BB. That's why Nolan's Batman is superior to Burtons even with Bale's lispy voice. I also hated some of the supposting cast in this movie, everything from that annoying bob side kick to that dumb fuck who played the reporter who worked with Basinger. Though Palance and Billy Dee were great.

  • July 4, 2011, 7:50 a.m. CST

    Ace

    by Autodidact

    How bout you step outside the fucking "top 10 lists" and read some comics. Either that or stop pretending not to know shit for the sake of conversation.

  • July 4, 2011, 12:27 p.m. CST

    Another thing that ruled about this movie

    by themikejonas

    Was the marketing. I think that was the first time someone sold a blockbuster by slapping a wordless logo on EVERYTHING. Especially those posters and T-shirts. Not to mention selling the VHS tape for $17.99 that Christmas. That was unheard of back then.

  • July 4, 2011, 2:26 p.m. CST

    spacehunter3-d

    by Winston Smith

    Shouldn't you be posting on YouTube? Even by AICN standards you're low.

  • for Burton's movie but not for Nolan's

  • July 5, 2011, 6:26 p.m. CST

    themikejonas -- Superman the movie did it years before Batman

    by Professor_Monster

    The advanced posters had the S shield on it and nothing more- and video tapes for Batman sold for 9.99 when they came out for X-mas..

  • July 5, 2011, 6:34 p.m. CST

    Bale's Bruce Wayne is better than Keaton's...

    by Christo

    But Keaton's Batman is better than Bale's Batman. Sure Bale's had more physicality to him, yes. Keaton's Batman was a fucked up guy though. The scene in the cave (after the awesome Bat Mobile joy ride) where Batman calls the Joker psychotic and Kim Basinger tells him that some people would say the same about him. He gets visibly pissed at the thought of that and asks, "what people?" while getting in her face. Then be knocks her out, steals her film from her bra, abd she wakes up and grabs her boob. Pimp. All Bale's Batman could do to sound more pissed off was to growl. But he played the playboy douche much better than Keaton did.