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‘Nice To See Them Getting Along’ Herc Loves Beyond Reason The Penultimate GAME OF THRONES!!

I am – Hercules!!

Last week Arya evaded the One God Death while sister Sansa pleaded for the life of her daddy Ned. Son Robb Stark used a direwolf to underscore his resolve. Ned's bastard son Jon Snow was menaced by zombies. Khal Drogo was menaced by a disrespectful underling. Tyrion Lannister was menaced by the Stone Crows (who always look like they’re about to ask “What’s in your wallet?”).

HBO says of tonight’s almost-last first-season installment, “Baelor”:

Ned (Sean Bean) makes a fateful decision; Robb takes a prized prisoner; Daenerys (Emilia Clarke) finds her reign imperiled. Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by Alan Taylor.

9 p.m. Sunday. HBO.


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Readers Talkback
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  • June 12, 2011, 4:38 a.m. CST


    by Schadenfreude

    Looking forward to this one.

  • June 12, 2011, 4:58 a.m. CST

    This one is going to be huge. But

    by V'Shael

    it's going to lead to the finale, which is going to be a long seven days away.

  • June 12, 2011, 5:37 a.m. CST

    Last weeks ep best yet...

    by Jimbonx

    hope we can top it this week>

  • June 12, 2011, 5:40 a.m. CST

    Didn't care for last weeks episode

    by elsewhere

    Probably my least favorite of the season. Just felt like too much meandering. However tonights looks really good.

  • June 12, 2011, 7:12 a.m. CST

    This is one show that keeps getting better and better.

    by sam jacksons wig

    The slow burn, great acting and scripting has worked a treat, rather than trying to go for the money shots early and blowing their wad. Terrific TV.

  • June 12, 2011, 7:22 a.m. CST

    I hate the idea

    by Itchy

    that this season is over in a week. Luckily, True Blood coming back will help soothe the sting, but still . . . .

  • June 12, 2011, 7:33 a.m. CST

    I've watched last weeks episode six times now!

    by workshed

    Mainly because of watching it with mates who come round but, mostly, for my own pleasure. Nothing on TV this year comes close imo.

  • June 12, 2011, 7:52 a.m. CST

    "What's in your wallet?" cracked me up

    by IWasInJuniorHighDickhead

    you're dead on there, won't be able to take them seriously now. Shagga is played by Mark Lewis Jones, who drinks in my local, but I didn't recognise him at first..

  • June 12, 2011, 8:04 a.m. CST

    This is the one, finally....

    by gooseud

    where the few people who havent been spoiled are going to crap their pants.

  • June 12, 2011, 8:42 a.m. CST

    This episode will contain....

    by lock67ca

    One of the best "what the fuck?!!?" moments ever! Can't wait to see the reaction from people who aren't familiar with the books, and haven't already been spoiled.

  • June 12, 2011, 9:38 a.m. CST

    What's left?

    by Denton56

    if everything that I think is going to happen happens in this episode, then there really isn't a whole lot left for the finale. In fact, the finale would basically just be an aftermath of this episode. Sure there will be a couple of big moments, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them embelish next week's finale. Maybe an early look at Stannis Baratheon?

  • June 12, 2011, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Your right, denton

    by gooseud

    nothing happens in the finale. Its basically just a big mop up. Nothing at all. Total waste. Heh heh.

  • June 12, 2011, 10:09 a.m. CST


    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    I'd say the best two scenes of first book will be left over for the last episode, but that's just me.

  • June 12, 2011, 10:35 a.m. CST


    by Therawbeats

    Man, even if you didn't like last weeks I can't picture how anyone liked it less than episode 4. That was really difficult to sit through and I'm a huge fan of the books/show. After that came the turning point and this show has stepped it up to new levels every week since.

  • June 12, 2011, 10:45 a.m. CST


    by grendel69

    Theres plenty of aftermath stuff to do ... like Joffreys tomenting Sansa.. Dany and her "pets" scene and such...

  • June 12, 2011, 10:50 a.m. CST

    I can't wait to watch this with my wife...

    by fanboy71

    because she has no idea what's coming. Her reaction should be great. And I think the very last scene of this season, if they follow the book, will be amazing.

  • June 12, 2011, 10:52 a.m. CST

    Thinkin bout reading the books...

    by radjac31

    But wondering if it pretty much reads 1 season per book? Or are there pretty big changes like The Walking Dead?

  • June 12, 2011, 11:20 a.m. CST


    by lock67ca

    You should definitely read the books. Some of the best fantasy novels ever written. The first book is covered in the first season and, while there are some differences, the show has stuck pretty close to the plot of the books. Keep in mind that it has taken George 10 years to release books 4 and 5 (they were originally intended to be one book) so you will have to be patient while waiting for future volumes. Hopefully, the problems which led to the long delays are finally out of the way and he can release the remaining books in a much more timely fashion. Writer's block can be a real bitch.

  • June 12, 2011, 11:44 a.m. CST


    by Ned Starks head

    read the books. you won't be able to put them down. Third time through and I can't!

  • June 12, 2011, 11:57 a.m. CST


    by kesoze4

    Can you explain to me why you feel the need to write what happens next, even if vague? Why? Does it make your life better in some way? I'm really curious from a behavioral POV why people act like you do. Do your parents not love you enough?

  • After all, I seem to recall Lafayette surviving on "True Blood" even though he dies in the first book of that series.

  • June 12, 2011, 12:13 p.m. CST


    by grendel69

    I was responding to a comment. If you dont want people to respond to comments, then why go to a message board and why read comments to things you havent yet seen if you want to stay 100000% spoiler free. I didnt give any spoilers to what happens and you wouldnt know what Im talking about unless you read the books. Go change your tampon and then you can fuck off. Heres a idea, avoid threads about topics you dont want to know about ahead of time.

  • June 12, 2011, 12:16 p.m. CST


    by HSStudios

    Yes, it's mostly the plot from the first book, but everything is gone into in deeper and more interesting detail. Characters who pop up in one scene have fully fleshed-out interesting backstories and you'll also learn cool info about things that seem like random set-dressing or fantasy-speak in the show. I think you'll enjoy it. The show and the book compliment each other.

  • June 12, 2011, 12:29 p.m. CST

    lynxpro: not this show's M.O.

    by mrgray

    You're right to keep an open mind because of the True Blood business, but fans of the Stackhouse books will tell you that that show diverged pretty quickly, whereas GoT has stuck almost maniacally to the events of the book. Besides which, it would be difficult to change the fates of characters from GoT without significantly altering future events. Lafayette remaining on the planet doesn't really affect True Blood's plot. He's mostly a side character. GoT doesn't have that luxury.

  • June 12, 2011, 12:32 p.m. CST


    by kesoze4

    This is a thread about a tv show where many haven't read the books, for them to discussed what they have *seen* so far and expect to happen from that. It's not a thread for people who have read the books to come in and proclaim what they know happens, even if "masked" -- which yours barely was. If you want to discuss what you've read in the books, that's fantastic -- there are thousands of forums for that you can find with a quick Google search. Here's one for you, consider it a freebie: I've read all four books. I know well what's coming. But because I enjoy treating the show as a separate thing and also love hearing non-readers enjoy it one episode as a time, I feel no need to tell anyone what to expect, and instead let them enjoy it as the series creators planned. Please just be considerate, and if you feel the need to write any spoilers, write "SPOILERS" in allcaps, add several spaces, and then say whatever you feel the need to say.

  • June 12, 2011, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Grendel it wouldn't kill you to put (SPOILER) in your title

    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    This is a talkback for the TV series as state above. If you insist on talking about future events, just disclaim your post with a SPOILER tag. Its not difficult and helps keep a lively discussion going.

  • June 12, 2011, 12:49 p.m. CST

    What's in your wallet

    by CCon99

    That was funny.

  • June 12, 2011, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Who's for a Dunk & Egg movie after this?

    by BiggusDickus

    I mean, it's a stand-alone story, stick a reasonable budget behind it and it'll rock! The Trial of Seven would be awesome on a big screen!

  • June 12, 2011, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Thats fine.

    by grendel69

    Since we're on a website thats essentially a spoiler site and the previous threads of GOT have contained spoilers I didnt think it was necessary. I think the spoilers here have been pretty tame, compared to other places like imdb and SHH, and again I didnt think I was giving anything away. Ask me nicely and fine, I'll keep that in mind for future threads.....but when Im insulted and called out.... Come to think of it..... I cant think of any times Ive seen SPOILER tags in AICN talkbacks, but whatever....

  • June 12, 2011, 1:28 p.m. CST

    I had to stop reading

    by Extr3m1st

    SPOILER GUESSING </p> I just read above that tonight's episode should contain the biggest WTF moment so far. I can only assume someone dies who is a main stay in the cast. Perhaps the imp, since it would seem he is the most popular of the cast right now and him getting knocked off of the show would probably be considered a stupid move by anyone watching. Either way I can't come back here now until I watch tonight's episode as I just know the spoilers will be out in force.

  • June 12, 2011, 1:35 p.m. CST

    @ Grendel

    by chiwrtr72

    Ask you nicely? Grow up (as well as rather ironic considering your profanity laced response). Spoilers annoyances have been brought up every week for every episode talkback. Put Spoiler in your subject line. Herc thanks for the "what's in your wallet" observation... just sad I didn't think of it first...

  • June 12, 2011, 1:50 p.m. CST

    biggusdickus, yes, they should make Dunk & Egg movies between each season!

    by Stereotypical Evil Archer

    There are three Dunk & Egg adventures and Martin is working on a fourth. Hollywood likes franchises, seems like a perfect fit. They can use the existing props and sets; the production design already exists. There should be Hedge Knight movies. Hell, they could release the movies a month before the series begins each year. A theatrical release that could double as marketing for a TV show. Yes, a movie that's essentially a commercial for a television series. Has this ever been done before? Other than X-Files?

  • June 12, 2011, 1:57 p.m. CST

    Definitely Dunk and Egg Movies

    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    Would be perfect.

  • June 12, 2011, 2:15 p.m. CST

    mattman i'm offended by your mocking of the way we talk

    by Holodigm

    it's SHPOILER, not THPOILER. get your lishpsh right

  • June 12, 2011, 2:30 p.m. CST


    by yomamanodros

    Don't worry, you got the lithp right the firtht time. The Mummerth would be proud.

  • June 12, 2011, 2:36 p.m. CST

    proper hyped for this

    by theGoldbergV

    can't wait and the promise of total WhatTheFuckerry from the above posts has got me really excited. Can't it be Monday yet? Right, am off as to not be spoiled should some fucktard show up wanting to prove how clever he is by the fact he can read wikipedia. See ya Tuesday UK time. Winter is comin bitches

  • June 12, 2011, 2:36 p.m. CST

    I just don't know why it's hard

    by kesoze4

    Don't differentiate between "big" and "small" spoilers, just simply don't mention *anything* that hasn't happened yet. Don't say something big is coming, don't say what character will or will not be fine, don't say a thing. Just write as if you have only seen the show and all will be well. Otherwise add a spoiler tag and say what you will.

  • June 12, 2011, 2:51 p.m. CST

    From the preview..

    by Frank Dills

    I most look forward to Tyrons speech.

  • June 12, 2011, 2:53 p.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    I side with you sir, but it's hopeless. Last week people were posting GoT spoilers in separate talkbacks not related to the show.

  • June 12, 2011, 2:56 p.m. CST

    I guess it's a good thing...

    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    If people are obsessed with spoiling something, it means that a lot of people care about it right? And thus the show should just continue to gain popularity, or is that reaching? Either way, very excited for tonight.

  • June 12, 2011, 3:19 p.m. CST

    Grow up

    by grendel69

    With that idiot making it personal talking about my parents not loving me enough or whatever.. he could have just asked me why not use spoiler tags(even though I didnt spoil ANYTHING), and I would have responded kindly. Yea Ill just sit back and be insulted by someone elses stupid remarks and not address it. With all the childish comments Ive been readng on this forum, verbal insults hurled towards other posters and profanity for the past 10 years, I can even believe Im being called out for something so petty and having this conversation here. And Ill say again, I cant recall people ever much using spoiler tags here, on a spoiler website that has always existed pretty much to give advanced news to fans.

  • June 12, 2011, 4:25 p.m. CST


    by QuietMan297 might want to check out last week's thread about this show. You'll find a lot of people using spoiler tags, including a couple of people towards the end of it who learned how to use them in a way that allowed them to discuss the books with each other without fucking it up for others. It's really not hard; all it takes is a little consideration for other talkbackers who use the site. And yes, you actually did write a spoiler in your post above.

  • June 12, 2011, 4:37 p.m. CST

    in medias read

    by SpencerBarnes

    I'm reading the book now and find that the show follows very closely... i'm on page 301, right when caetyln takes her prisoner, so i guess things could change. it does seem as though some chapters end right where some of the episodes did. still, a great read. not sure whether to read ahead of the show or not... ... and in terms of comparison, I don't think the books will touch the greatness of LOTR or Dark Tower, but it's too early to tell...

  • June 12, 2011, 4:38 p.m. CST

    ps - about spoilers.

    by SpencerBarnes

    apparently, something big and SHOCKING happens pretty soon. i wish i hadn't read that, because now i have some guesses, and i won't be nearly as shocked as i would've been had i not known about said SHOCKING event.

  • June 12, 2011, 4:54 p.m. CST


    by Cartagia


  • June 12, 2011, 5:45 p.m. CST

    Damn you , Game of Thrones!

    by Happyfat73

    I've had the theme tune stuck in my head for nine weeks now. I've been humming it incessantly. I can't stop. I love it.

  • June 12, 2011, 5:47 p.m. CST

    Spoilers on this Forum

    by CrazyGnome

    If spoilers concern you then stop reading this forum. If you are a vet to this site you know it is great, but there is a mean streak that flows thru many of the posters here. They will post "Non-spoilers" and then bullet point major spoilers just to be jerks. The second season has great surprises too, so please, go to another site where the forums are more disciplined. I couldn't tell you which ones those are, but things here aren't going to change here. Please don't keep reaching for the cheese that zaps you, and complain that it zaps you.

  • June 12, 2011, 6:12 p.m. CST

    Syrio Forel (Spoilers!!)

    by NotARegular

    ...doesn't show up in tonight's episode. Abe Vigoda also no-shows. Sorry to "spoil" it for you.

  • June 12, 2011, 6:30 p.m. CST


    by yomamanodros

    A Song of Ice and Fire far surpasses the Dark Tower series, and it is just so much different than LOTR that it's really hard to compare the two. Read the Malazan Book of the Fallen if you haven't already. It's pretty high on the list as well.

  • June 12, 2011, 7:21 p.m. CST

    LOTR vs. AGoT

    by kesoze4

    While I respect that LOTR may be the greater work of "art" due to all the poetry and songs and language-invention and whatnot, but man, I'd far rather read another ASOIAF book anyday. They have characters I can relate to along with really shocking surprises, shades of grey in all characters, real humor, not to mention a plot that I can still hope won't be wrapped up with an unearned deus ex machina in the form of an unkillable skeleton army. Not to start a war, but need something to do before tonight's episode shows up on BT. (I would absolutely pay HBO to watch it if they let me, but being in the UK I don't know how).

  • June 12, 2011, 7:24 p.m. CST

    Fellow book-readers - stop ruining the party

    by Jon

    Man, as a fan of the books, I am beyond distasted with the behaviour of the book readers on the internet. I love reading the reactions of non-readers to the storylines twists and turns and what I can't understand is why so many of the book readers feel the need to let "hints" drop here and there. The only reason I can come up with is that those readers want to show their superiority over the non-readers. But - newsflash - no matter how vague what you say is, it is still a spoiler that can potentially diminish someone's enjoyment of a moment. It can affect the way they prepare to watch an episode and lessen the shocks and twists as they come - for example, I know it has for me when people have made allusions to some film with a "shocking twist at the end" that I haven't seen yet - it makes me anticipate and prepare myself mentally for that to come which ends up meaning - I am usually then able to guess what happens. Hinting at these things benefits ABSOLUTELY NO ONE. Well, except for the original poster who gets to feel smug about knowing what is happening in advance. For fuck's sake, keep your comments to yourself if you can't understand the idea that anything that hints at an event not shown on the show yet IS A SPOILER.

  • June 12, 2011, 7:38 p.m. CST


    by kesoze4

    I do apologize for referring to your parents, but as a former student of psychology I just was curious to understand what motivates people who feel the need to drop spoilers. First, do recognize that your comment about Dany, etc., was indeed a spoiler, however vague. People will read that and quickly be able to infer next steps. Just don't write it. But moreover, I remain curious as to what steps have to happen in a child's development that result in someone who feels insecure enough that they drop these hints, knowing full well that people who haven't read the books will see them and later lack some of the surprise they would have otherwise felt. Some people *don't* drop spoilers on these boards, even knowing how the movie ends or the books turn out... what makes these people more secure? Is it insecurity? Being picked on in school? Living alone and hoping others will be amazed at your knowledge and drawn to you? Or like you say, maybe it's just a disregard for spoiling in general -- the assumption that "on AICN, everything's spoiled, so f#%& off if you don't want things ruined for you. I've seen stuff ruined so I'm gonna do the same to others." Sorry, I don't mean to be calling you out in general, but I figure it's worth mentioning earlier on before the postantipenultimate episode airs.

  • June 12, 2011, 7:57 p.m. CST

    It's going to be difficult to watch tonight's episode

    by Itchy

    with this turgid bone in my pants ... that's how excited I am for these next two episodes.

  • June 12, 2011, 8:24 p.m. CST

    Amen, Kesoze

    by IWasInJuniorHighDickhead

    I don't really understand the logic of spoiling it... if it was series 6 of Lost (spits) and you'd seen the finale being filmed, I could at least see the logic in wanting to blab about it. But here we are talking about books that are readily available, and if that is too much trouble you can get bullet point spoilers from Wikipedia. You're not coming across as clever, just embarrassingly childish. <P> People have always been dicks on occasion and dropped spoiler bombs on AICN, but i've not seen so many instances of this self-important 'wait til this or that bit happens' with very few people bothering to preface anything with a spoiler title.<P> Despite what many of them seem to think, this is a tb for the tv version, not the book. The banhammer has fallen upon people for much less. Remember how much you enjoyed the book? Think of one reason why the next person shouldn't have the same rights as you to go in spoiler free.

  • June 12, 2011, 8:49 p.m. CST

    Give Dinklage

    by TheGame

    the emmy, the oscar, the tony, the globe, whatever fucking award they give out for acting this guy should get it. Brilliant.

  • June 12, 2011, 8:59 p.m. CST

    This show:

    by Hercules

    AMAZING!! I renounce my fealty to "The Wire."

  • June 12, 2011, 9:03 p.m. CST

    as a non-reader of the books...

    by epic quibble

    ...allow me to say HO-LEE-SHIT! wow. just wow.

  • June 12, 2011, 9:06 p.m. CST

    Herc, Book 2 is better

    by CrazyGnome

    Good times.

  • June 12, 2011, 9:09 p.m. CST

    I can't get a handle on all the names...

    by cripeman

    Freakin WOW! The Lannisters are gonna be in TROUBLE. After hearing Tyrion's back story ... you know evil is in the blood.

  • June 12, 2011, 9:11 p.m. CST


    by blackwood


  • June 12, 2011, 9:11 p.m. CST

    Tonight's episode: WTF?!?!

    by Gorf

    I am bummed as hell and my mind is blown!

  • June 12, 2011, 9:12 p.m. CST

    Westeros is not Baltimore...

    by melchior42

    The concentrated awesomeness that is Game of Thrones in no way diminishes the concentrated awesomeness that is the Wire. Both can co-habitate as the best possible television in their respective realms. :D

  • June 12, 2011, 9:13 p.m. CST

    Seriously there should be more black boxes here

    by Fico

    I know Harry doesn't hardly watch live tv, but Merrick, Massa, Capone need to be BOWING DOWN to this show. It's the best entertainment going right now. FUCK Cowboys & Aliens.

  • June 12, 2011, 9:22 p.m. CST

    I was afraid GOT would suffer as ROME did...

    by Dan Halen

    Not a penny left over to shoot any battles. Couldn't we have seen at least Rob ambush Jaimie? Tyrion's game of truth or dare, while necessary, was a bit long winded. The highlight aside from Bean losing his head was the Aemon Targaryen scene. That last scene was like Christ upon Golgotha! ALL HAIL THE KING OF THE NORTH!

  • June 12, 2011, 9:23 p.m. CST

    Spoiler above this post - beware

    by CrazyGnome


  • June 12, 2011, 9:24 p.m. CST

    Grenedel69.... um dude

    by Dan Halen

    I think aint it cool news pretty much invented the spoiler tag.

  • June 12, 2011, 9:28 p.m. CST

    dan halen ... is that what they said?

    by stayghost

    the "HAIL" line wrote? Is that what they said at the end of the preview? I couldn't make it out

  • June 12, 2011, 9:33 p.m. CST

    Indeed Stayghost... indeed...nm

    by Dan Halen


  • June 12, 2011, 9:35 p.m. CST

    What part of SHHHH

    by blackwood


  • June 12, 2011, 9:40 p.m. CST

    you have to post spoiler AFTER the show aired?

    by Dan Halen


  • June 12, 2011, 9:43 p.m. CST

    Still over an hour away from airing on the west coast

    by NotARegular

    ...But honestly the smart thing to do would have been to avoid this place completely after all those other posts orgasmed over the ending.

  • June 12, 2011, 9:44 p.m. CST

    NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF??!!!

    by nopix

    I don't read the books, but I have to say that really fucking sucks. This show is BRUTAL!

  • June 12, 2011, 9:45 p.m. CST


    by nopix

    I just had to throw one more fuck in for good measure. FUCK!

  • June 12, 2011, 9:45 p.m. CST


    by nopix

  • June 12, 2011, 9:48 p.m. CST

    Go Read The Shannara Series...

    by Gary Cochran

    The Sword Of Shannara series by Terry Brookes is another great epic series that is similar to LOTR but also similar to a future appocalypse series as well. One of the studios should buy the series and make Feature Films of the books like they did with Harry Potter.

  • June 12, 2011, 9:49 p.m. CST

    nopix- Fuck the Lannisters... and dan

    by Cartagia

    was my personal credo after I finished the first book. Dan Halen- Pretty much the whole thread before you came in here was people talking about how they hated the spoilers.

  • June 12, 2011, 9:54 p.m. CST

    Herc--let's not get nuts here.


    The Wire is and will always be The Greatest Show Ever Created. The scope. Ambition. Message. Acting. Convoluted plots. Five glorious seasons AND Stuck the landing. As much as I like game of thrones, I don't think it's gonna stick that landing. Shit who knows if the writer is gonna EVER finish. He seems to be worried about it. You come at the king, you best not miss. Take heed fuckers.

  • June 12, 2011, 9:55 p.m. CST


    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    They don't show the actual battle between Robb and Jamie in the book either, that was pretty much how the book played out as well.

  • June 12, 2011, 9:57 p.m. CST

    HBO and the writers of this series...

    by OgieOglethorpe

    all have GIANT brass balls.. probably with spikes on them. Kudos... here's hoping they get rewarded for it. (and yes.. just go ahead and etch "Dinklage" on that best supporting actor emmy & golden globe)

  • June 12, 2011, 9:58 p.m. CST

    I thought the idea to

    by In Action Man Reborn Requiem

    do the Dark Tower as Movie/ TV Series/ Movie was a bad idea but, I think it might work for GOT. Do a summer release movie to wrap up each season with the budget for the big climax. Since casting and many of the sets are already built I bet HBO could put together a pretty kickass movie for $60 to $100 million. Then go back and do the next season. I also wouldn't mind a prequel movie about the war against the Mad King that took place 17 years before the events of GOT.

  • June 12, 2011, 10:01 p.m. CST

    the day that something tops The Wire

    by IWasInJuniorHighDickhead

    is a day I hope to be around for!

  • June 12, 2011, 10:09 p.m. CST

    Happyfat - if the theme is stuck in your brain

    by Itchy

    check out this guy's amazing cover of it: I can't even listen to the opening credits now without super-imposing this version.

  • June 12, 2011, 10:17 p.m. CST

    It's hard for TV series to surprise us

    by krabklaw

    Not having read the book, I am just in shock at this week's events. I am quite sad about it too. This series just rose a few notches in my book. I may even have to consider re-watching the whole dang season. Job well done.

  • June 12, 2011, 10:26 p.m. CST

    Loved this episode

    by Therawbeats

    So many great scenes... thought the Dany scenes stole the episode for me though. Love the sounds that were coming from the tent! Fucking crazy! I read the books but everyone I watch with has not...needless to say they were shocked at the end

  • June 12, 2011, 10:31 p.m. CST

    Shannara < GOT, LOTR, etc etc etc

    by chiwrtr72

    The Shannara series is great as a high school read, but is average at best. Now Brust's Vlad Taltos series... that would be an amazing tv series.

  • June 12, 2011, 10:34 p.m. CST


    by lock67ca

    This one man acoustic version is pretty damn cool too.

  • June 12, 2011, 11:02 p.m. CST

    I really wish I hadn't been spoiled

    by clupula

    about the ending of this episode. It was actually in the talkbacks where I read it. I am not sure if there was a spoiler tag or not, but I hate that I knew this was coming. Still, powerful as shit, though.

  • June 12, 2011, 11:03 p.m. CST

    Herc, that's the boldest and most true thing you've ever posted.

    by Stereotypical Evil Archer

  • June 12, 2011, 11:10 p.m. CST

    It's too bad someone in these talkbacks ruined the fate

    by FrodoFraggins

    of a certain character. I think it was in the second talkback. Real bummer. I'll have to read the books after the finale and avoid talkbacks until then.

  • really doesn't give a shit which character dies. TV of the highest calibre.

  • June 12, 2011, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Oh yeah, first episode to rival Rome

    by FrodoFraggins

    This is the first episode to really engage me. It's too bad they decided to just skip the whole battle but I guess the budget didn't allow it. People say that lots of great characters die in the series but I'm hoping the young sword fighting daughter, the dwarf and the bastard son in the north all last a long time.

  • June 12, 2011, 11:22 p.m. CST


    by Xaximus

    Really glad I don't read these talkbalks until after watching the episode. Fuck. I haven't been that shocked by a TV show since the season 1 finale of Battlestar Galactica.

  • June 12, 2011, 11:25 p.m. CST

    On The Wire...

    by QuietMan297

    On one hand, I feel you, Herc. This show is hardcore, gritty with all the HBO flourishes of sex and violence PLUS it appeals to us geeks with it's Fantasy (lite) universe, fantastic writing and superior casting. So yeah, for what GoT has given us thus far, it is my favorite show that is currently airing, far and away. That said, The Wire didn't own me until the end of Season Three (where it could have ended and still be considered one of the greatest shows on television, but went on to play out two more outstanding seasons). In order for Game of Thrones to TAKE the Throne, it has to finish the saga. Which means that George RR Martin has to finish his side of it (just two more books to go after this July) and HBO can't, cannot, CAN NOT fucking ROME this series. Which means, IF GRRM finally gets it done, and IF HBO can maintain this level for SIX MORE SEASONS, well... ...then, and only then, should we discuss renouncing fealty to our favorite tv shows of all time. Until then, GoT is strictly the first course of a seven course meal.

  • June 12, 2011, 11:38 p.m. CST

    Honestly, battles:

    by blackwood

    are boring. Best reduced to three minute montages, really. I love me some good violence and rousing speeches and clanking armor, but I can't think of the last large-scale battle scene that genuinely took my breath away. Maybe SAVING PRIVATE RYAN. Story doesn't happen in battles. Battles just move story along. The end took my breath away. I was spoiled in that TB where it was spoiled. But honestly, all the joyless assholes in the world couldn't ruin the actual moment. It was done so well. Christ, I can't believe next week is it. It's unfair. I can't see myself staying away from the books. I want to know all there is to know about these characters... but I also don't want to deny myself the joy of watching it play out with these actors in this way. Fuck. Gah. Fuck. Great show.

  • June 12, 2011, 11:48 p.m. CST

    Game of Thrones

    by Hercules

    is moving, exciting, funny and packed with a ridiculous surfeit of great characters. It can and probably should replace "Mad Men" as Emmy's darling this year. It reminds me of "The West Wing" in that each episode's new characters are routinely more entertaining than the series' exceedingly entertaining regular characters.

  • June 12, 2011, 11:50 p.m. CST


    by Dookiestain LaFlair

    I haven't read the books and managed to keep myself spoiler free, and am still in shock. Once they killed Boromir Stark I didn't move out of my seat for a good five minutes. I don't think I've ever felt that much impact from a fictional character dying. Lem from The Shield had a little impact on me, and I spoiled Omar's death on The Wire. I realized that on this show no one is safe, but I didn't think that would happen. The worst part of it is they took his honor. The best part is his wife is single, cause she is hot. I think Lady Stark got the better end of the gene pool then her sister, but the lady of the vale is quick to make with a tidday. Reply to Talkback

  • The books are kickass. read them and get the fuck off this website, and get the fuck off the Game of thrones Facebook. Just shut the fuck up or Have your shit ruined. Who likes eating cornflakes if some random stranger took a dump in 'em? I sure the fuck don't. Just did it to yourself and you all know who you are. Or do you just like the feel of purposely eating someone else's shit and feeling it squish between your teeth?

  • June 12, 2011, 11:55 p.m. CST

    I like my cornflakes with milk and a little bit of sugar.

    by halowiscious

  • I thought having him get knocked out before the battle like that was a small disservice to his character. While he's obviously physically at a disadvantage Tyrion is fairly capable in combat situations. I'm sure we'll see some of that later, but his competence in this particular battle directly leads to Tywinn's bestowing him his future responsibility. Not the hugest deal in the world, but again I think a disservice to the character. Tyrion is not to be underestimated.

  • June 13, 2011, 12:05 a.m. CST


    by Bob of the Shire

    Really not sure how they're going to do next season without a bump in budget. Not to spoil anything, but the story is going to require a lot more special effects in the coming seasons.

  • June 13, 2011, 12:14 a.m. CST

    Hands down the best show on TV

    by Sci-FiJunky

    I hope the success of GOT leads to HBO or Showtine making a similar series out of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. It would be much more costly and time consuming (what with 14 books to contend with). But I have to say WoT kicks all other fantasy books asses! I was given the first book of Song of Ice and Fire back in 1992, but didn't get around to reading it until the third episode of the series aired. I am on the second book now, and sooo glad I finally picked it up!

  • June 13, 2011, 12:26 a.m. CST

    My Review

    by Frank Dills

    The Good: The Spider Guy and Robb have proven themselves to be solid additions to the show. Really nice efforts by both tonight. It's amazing that so many people in the cast step up at different times and hit home runs. I was thinking that perhaps since no one really hogs the screen time, perhaps this is a positive. Each actor, with a few exceptions, has risen to the occasion whenever called upon and is probably motivated by these small windows of opportunity. While I initially thought Tyron's speech to the army would be the best, it was his talk about his lost love that no doubt will be submitted for the sure thing Emmey. Just magnificent stuff. The new King is wonderful, a perfect arse. The kid playing him is beyond magnificent. The Bad: Would have been nice to see more of Robbs army. Dannys first scene of course ends with a stare. Emila Clarke feels very clunky. She never seems comfortable in her role, emotionally she's never on the mark. Notice how the girl playing Tyrons love interest is far more competent at captivating the moment. Tents, tents, and more tents. Half of episode 9 is filmed in tents, why? I will say that the Lannister tents are nothing short of amazing. Decorated, floored, etc. I suppose if one is going to spend so much time in tents, why not. The Abstract: Episode 9 felt a little to much like filler to me. All the momentum of the spectacular episodes 7 & 8, and the solid episode 6 is lost here. Yes it had the big ending, but even that was a little off. I haven't read the book in years now, but it seemed to play out differently. I don't know, this one felt like a step back. A little heavy handed at points, a little exposition happy, and back to the claustrophobic feel of the earlier episodes. That being said, episode 10 needs to be perfect for a satisfying, if at times schizophrenic, run this year. It's possible, but not a sure thing.

  • June 13, 2011, 12:29 a.m. CST

    I'd be torn on a Wheel of Time series

    by Audio_of_Being

    The only benefit would be the condensing of the horrible 6-10 books where the pacing was non-existant, so it might keep people's attention. On the other hand, some of those characters got really f*cking annoying by Knife of Dreams, which is where I stopped until Sanderson's are all on paperback.

  • June 13, 2011, 12:32 a.m. CST

    I agree with Bob of the Shire

    by Denton56

    I have no idea how they're going to do next season's big moments. I read the books and the ending of tonights episode was still heartstoping. Except for the drawn out Tyrion drinking games, extrememly well done episode.

  • June 13, 2011, 12:51 a.m. CST


    by Therawbeats

    Frank you thought the ending was "off"? I don't know man. Thought it was EXACTLY like the book, possibly even better. I mean it went from my minds eye to the screen. Best and most important scene of the series so far and it was damn perfect. As usual, this show knows what the money shots are and they do not fuck around with them. One most powerful moments I've seen on TV...and I knew what was going to happen. On another did Jorah become my favorite character in this story? That actor is too damn good.

  • June 13, 2011, 1:33 a.m. CST

    a few points beyond the obvious impact of the final scene...

    by QuietMan297

    — Charles Dance makes a great villain, though he might want to reign in his snarl just a notch or two. A little bit more character than "I'm just a really evil asshole." — Jon Snow's conversation with the master of the citadel was a stunner. — Are all of the rulers we haven't met in the Seven Kingdoms eccentric psychos? Lord Frey groping his 15 year-old bride was as creepy as Caitlyn's sister in the Vale (*Note, I am NOT asking for spoilers, confirmation, comments or leading speculation from the book readers, I'm addressing show points ONLY) — As much as I love Peter Dinklage, I have come to enjoy Bronn just as much, he's a perfect not-so-straight man to Tyrion. — Dany is starting to learn the hard way that throwing the words "Drogo" and "Khaleesi" aren't carrying as much weight as they did — Ser Jorah's demonstration of the usefulness of wearing armor in a sword fight was awesome — Tywin Lannister's horseback armor was wearing him — I want Jon Snow's wolf sword, as well as a one of those curved Dothraki blades

  • June 13, 2011, 2:04 a.m. CST

    Damn Lannisters!

    by DrPain

    and boy, is Ned Stark STUPID.

  • June 13, 2011, 2:08 a.m. CST

    And this show just keeps getting better!

    by DrPain

    but what's up with Conan tribe?? It's like another show mixed in. What's the point of that side story?

  • June 13, 2011, 2:14 a.m. CST

    Amazing from beginning to end

    by funkylovemonkey

    and I loved how the imagery of the final execution compares nicely to the introduction of Ned Stark where he tells his sons how the one who orders the execution should be the one who does it.

  • June 13, 2011, 2:51 a.m. CST


    by cockdiesel


  • June 13, 2011, 3:01 a.m. CST


    by altoandando

    ballsy... magnificent. not happy that there's just one more ep in the season.

  • June 13, 2011, 3:09 a.m. CST

    Just finished Episode 8...

    by DickBallsworth

    THE GOOD: no floppy penis on display. THE BAD: no floppy penis on display. Will watch the finale!

  • June 13, 2011, 3:11 a.m. CST

    Just finished Episode 9...

    by DickBallsworth

    THE GOOD: Distracted due to lack of floppy penis scenes. THE BAD: Distracted due to lack of floppy penis scenes. Will watch the finale!

  • June 13, 2011, 3:11 a.m. CST

    dickballsworth... there WAS floppy penis on display in episode 8.

    by Happyfat73


  • June 13, 2011, 3:12 a.m. CST

    Just read the book version of Episode 10...

    by DickBallsworth

    THE GOOD: An abundance of floppy penis scenes. THE BAD: An abundance of floppy penis scenes. Will read the next book!

  • June 13, 2011, 3:13 a.m. CST

    Just helped write next season's Episode 1...

    by DickBallsworth

    THE GOOD: Floppy penis scenes upgraded to full frontal male erections on display. THE BAD: THE GOOD: Floppy penis scenes upgraded to full frontal male erections on display. Will continue to try and coax Producers in a new direction!

  • June 13, 2011, 3:55 a.m. CST


    by MaxTheSilent

    Even though that sack of shit 'omar b' spoiled some pretty major stuff this episode still put me on my arse. The wait for season 2 will be a long one. I may just have to read the books to tide me over.

  • June 13, 2011, 3:59 a.m. CST

    And Tyrion's new whore is TEH HAWTNESS!!

    by MaxTheSilent

    Damn, son! That saucy foreign wench gets three thumbs up from me.

  • June 13, 2011, 4:09 a.m. CST

    My giant of Lannister...

    by NotARegular

    I actually like the Shae casting here better than how she's portrayed in the book. Shame they seemed to have cut out Tyrion's squire, Podrick Payne, completely though. He's not a hugely important character but one would think he was needed in some particular instances down the road. They captured that last scene with Ned PERFECTLY though. I guess they knew that moment was pretty iconic in the book and so they put all their money into it. The reactions over it across the net are pretty ridiculous. People are claiming they're done with the show. I imagine there'll be a massive suicide rate when Sean Bean dies for real. "God killed off Sean Bean? That's it, I'm not living anymore!". There's plenty of story to come beyond Ned Stark, people. Shame they cut Tyrion's battle completely. My one minor complaint really. I understand WHY it was cut but still...even if they didn't have the budget for the whole battle, showing Tyrion's resourcefulness with the one northerner, his horse and a certain spiked helm would have done him better service as opposed to being completely inept and getting conked out and trampled on pre-battle.

  • June 13, 2011, 4:56 a.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    And as I predicted many moons ago, the death of Ned will abruptly end the series for a lot of regular viewers. This is the problem you have in regards to a story with no defined protagonist. Personally I have no issues with it, but myself, you, and others here aren't the main demographic they have to please to ensure a healthy harvest of ratings each week. Bean was for many people their vested interest in the show, without a clear hero to root for, people will become lost. Please, don't shoot the messenger as I'm on your side, but Ned's death might be the moment millions quit watching the show.

  • June 13, 2011, 5:01 a.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    Ned's death scene went from being perfect in the beginning with the crowd shots and Ayra, to way to Hollywood when everything slowed down, got quiet, birds were flying about etc. It would have been better to have everything keep flowing at the frantic pace it was without any of this nonsense. It also would have been better to actually show it. Ending the episode with the implied beheading instead of some distant crowd shot of seeing it actually happen was a mistake. By making it so over the top instead of keeping it gritty and real, some of the impact and surprise was lost. The last shot being Ned's head on the ground would have been perfect.

  • June 13, 2011, 5:07 a.m. CST

    Sibel Kekilli as Shae

    by CuervoJones

    She did an amazing job in Head-On. And she was great in her previous porn movies, too.

  • June 13, 2011, 5:27 a.m. CST

    Dinklage better get the Supporting Actor Emmy.

    by CCon99

    I've been wanting John Noble to get the Supporting Actor nod the past 3 years, but Dinklage is even more brilliant! Michelle Forbes is deserving for her brilliant work on The Killing as well.

  • June 13, 2011, 5:31 a.m. CST

    Idea for HBO: The Sean Bean Show

    by DynamixRo

    They'd just need some fantasy-like scenery and him reading from the phone book, polishing his longsword every now and then for diversion. Millions of viewers will surely tune in. P.S. And make franksimms the showrunner, of course.

  • June 13, 2011, 5:34 a.m. CST

    Thought the final scene was perfect as is...

    by Toruk_Makto

    I concur with those who say that Tyrion was shortchanged a bit, he is a far better fighter than he gives himself credit for. It's one of the things that surprised me about him in the books. Ok Dany, bring it home darling...

  • June 13, 2011, 6:03 a.m. CST

    Tyrion is a good fighter in the TV series, too

    by CuervoJones

    Remember him breaking that guy´s head with a shield?

  • June 13, 2011, 6:23 a.m. CST

    Welcome to Game Of Thrones

    by deviloki

    I loved the episode and how they translated the last scene to the screen. If you are into the series than read the books. I use to resume the first books in 3 sentences and one of them was saved for the last episode. And although people were shock by this episode there are still several WTF moments in store for the next seasons.

  • June 13, 2011, 6:26 a.m. CST


    by Alientoast

    Actually, if memory serves, in the book Martin doesn't describe the actual beheading beyond the sword swinging down and the reactions after the fact. The show actually captured that part perfectly.

  • June 13, 2011, 6:34 a.m. CST

    Bronn and Varys

    by Itchy

    by far has the best asides in the book. And one very interesting aspect of the way they filmed the scene on the steps of Baelor's Sept was noting Varys come running out of the crowd, totally against his nature to put himself front and center, to try to intervene with King Joffrey's order. Never really picked that up in the book, but it certainly tended to make me believe Varys' protestation that his interest was in the peace of the Kingdom, rather than service to any one family, as he was the kind of guy who would know the prospect of peace would be gone after Joffrey's order.

  • June 13, 2011, 6:39 a.m. CST

    Give Dinklage a ton of awards right now.

    by V'Shael

    He the best thing in a show of amazing things.

  • June 13, 2011, 6:56 a.m. CST

    REALLY glad I didn't read the books

    by JediWuddayaknow

    Seriously, I'd rather not know what's coming in a movie or TV show rather than sitting there just to see if they translated things to screen to my satisfaction.

  • "I'm sending you to King's Landing"............"To do what???"..........."RULE!". Hard-on inducingly awesome, people are going to be jumping out of chairs on that one.

  • June 13, 2011, 6:59 a.m. CST

    Dont worry, people who think the show is too dark

    by gooseud

    Your going to get your happiness next episode. Just when you think everything is fucked, they are going to give you the last 5 minutes of next week's ep, when you realize what's REALLY going on.

  • June 13, 2011, 7:04 a.m. CST

    cool non-spoiler tidbit for those who havent read the books

    by gooseud

    in the books, it was the opposite: Robb sent his 18k against Tywin while he took his 2k of calvary and booked it through the woods on an epic march to get to Jaime. Unlike the show, Tywin has no idea Robb wasnt there until he gets a raven about the other battle. Basically, Jaime's army looks up and sees 2k of wild men on horseback come smashing out of the woods and ride right over them. For the record, they dont show the Robb/Jaime battle in the book either, its discussed afterwards. It is there that you see what a true bad ass mother fucker Jaime is, when he sees the battle is lost, he basically is like "Fuck it", jumps down off his horse, and takes on Robb's entire guard, 20 of them to 1 of him, and cuts through 10 of them trying to get to Robb before they finally tackle him down. Jaime is epic, you just dont know it yet.

  • June 13, 2011, 7:24 a.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    Have you had a lot of coffee this morning?

  • June 13, 2011, 7:25 a.m. CST

    I knew it was coming...

    by elsewhere

    but damn if that ending didn't give me a lump in my throat. Joffrey you little piece of shit.

  • June 13, 2011, 7:54 a.m. CST

    Kinda surprised so many are shocked

    by BizarroJerry

    I'm not being insulting or anything. What happened just didn't really surprise me that much. It's definitely an interesting turn of events in the story. But seeing how this is so early in the series, and it's an HBO show based on some novels, I assume that anything could happen. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I was expecting it all along, but when he was getting marched out there, I figured he may be dead. It would have been all too neat and clean if he could really just confess and still be okay, considering the dark tone of the series right now. One thing I must say though, kind of sort of in Joffrey's defense. The only people who really don't know that Ned was NOT a traitor is Cersei and I guess Jaime. Even Joffrey apparently believes he's Robert's son.

  • June 13, 2011, 8:01 a.m. CST

    End scene was PERFECT

    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    Note for note perfect. Could not have been handled better. What a moment!

  • June 13, 2011, 8:16 a.m. CST

    That's not correct Goose

    by mrskeletor

    Rob certainly did not send his main host after Tywin. It was only a small diversion host to trick him while the main army freed river-run. If it happened as you said then Rob would no longer have an army as the force against Tywin lost (just as we saw).

  • June 13, 2011, 8:21 a.m. CST

    Well, that's one OMG moment down...

    by BiggusDickus

    You know nothing, Jon Snow!

  • June 13, 2011, 8:23 a.m. CST

    Mrskeletor (Spoilers - kind of)

    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    I think Robb actually does send his main host against Tywin, some 18,000 strong, but it is used as a diversion and not as an all out attack. Once, the northerners engaged the Lannisters, they almost immediately begin a calculated and controlled retreat. So yes, 2,000 or so men are sacrificed, but the main host is able to withdrawn basically unharmed. Meanwhile, Robb takes his 2,000 or so cavalry and captures Jamie at the Whispering Woods and goes on to free Riverrun and smash the Lannister army there.

  • June 13, 2011, 8:27 a.m. CST

    Oh, and regarding Shannara...

    by BiggusDickus

    Loved the first three, diminishing returns on everything else. EXCEPT for the 'Word and Void' trilogy - what a show THAT would make! Emma Watson for Nest Freemark, anyone?

  • June 13, 2011, 8:35 a.m. CST

    Jaime will become your favorite characer....

    by templesweeper

    ...maybe after Tyrion. But for my money, just watch what Martin does with Jaime Lannister. I wrote Martin about it years ago, and we had a pretty great back and forth discussion about the character. I won't say anything more here, but just be amazed as his character develops over the course of the books/seasons. It's profound.

  • June 13, 2011, 8:49 a.m. CST

    @ templesweeper

    by BiggusDickus

    Agreed. The slow and gradual 180 of Jaime in the books is wonderful to read ("It would please me to call it 'Oathkeeper'"). Looking forward to seeing who they cast as Brienne!

  • June 13, 2011, 8:50 a.m. CST

    Next week will induce goosebumps too.

    by skycrapper

    I'm loving all the emotional outpour that's going on. It shows that people are invested.

  • June 13, 2011, 8:50 a.m. CST

    Did not 100% love this episode

    by BilboRing

    I read all the books 3 times but I am good with 95% of the translation to screen. I know you can't do everything in the books and I am not watching to find out what is missing but rather just enjoying my favorite books being made into my new favorite television show. But the one thing that bothered me was Tyrion getting bonked on the head and missing the battle. It would have been awesome! He is up there and so is the Mountain that Rides! Great part of the book. I guess the budget made them make a stupid scene out of it. I also feel the Dany/Drogo scenes were rushed but that's not a big deal as long as she gets most of the screen time next week, which she should...I hope. But they missed a few elements that would have made it really creepy. That's really all. Even my wife started to cry with poor Ned and I got very upset too and we both knew it was coming. That's how I know it is a great show. Bravo!!

  • June 13, 2011, 9 a.m. CST

    Who should be cast as Stannis

    by templesweeper

    He's been mentioned a few times already. Even Ned just mentioned in episode 9 that Stannis (Robert's younger brother, but older than Renly) is the rightful heir. Needless to say, he plays a big part in season 2 (book 2). So for those of you who know his character, who should play him? He's a very important character, and with recognizable actors getting bumped off the show each week, they should probably step it up and try to hire someone recognizable. Of course, not at the sacrifice of the actor not fitting the character. I had a few thoughts. What about Mark Strong? He's getting a little bigger in Hollywood (played the bad guy in Robin Hood, the bad guy in Sherlock Holmes, etc). And while Stannis isn't necessarily a purely "bad guy" he is certainly a menacing character. Some other thoughts: Christopher Eccleston, Jason Isaacs (though I see he is in another show this fall....he could do both), Tim Roth or, if HBO wanted to pull someone from Rome (and Thor) you could go with Ray Stevenson, though he may be a bit too big.

  • June 13, 2011, 9:02 a.m. CST

    How the end should have played out...

    by Frank Dills

    This is how the end scene could have been done much better…. Everything was fine up until the slow motion, isolated breathing, flying birds non sense starts. Instead of that, the scene would have switched and stayed with Arya and here POV of everything going on. The King gives his little speech, then demands Ned’s head. Without hesitation the executioner walks up and beheads Ned, no practice swing, no set up, just boom! We then get a close up of Ned’s body less head on the foot of the stage and it lands so it’s starring at Arya. The scene cuts between the head and her and the camera get’s closer on each. Finally, as the camera is locked almost exclusively on Ned’s eyes, The King walks up behind it and kicks it into the crowd, they cheer with delight. Arya is visibly upset and falls down crying in the horde of on lookers. I defy anyone to tell me that wouldn’t have been better than what we got.

  • June 13, 2011, 9:06 a.m. CST

    Stannis should be played by..

    by Frank Dills

    Ron Perlman.

  • June 13, 2011, 9:09 a.m. CST

    What a huge disappointment this show has been!

    by Snake Foreskin

    Surely if you've read the books often as I have, you can harbor no love for the way they have ham-fistedly and - even worse - BORINGLY handled this amazing series. I looked forward to this show for 2 years and even subscribed to HBO specifically to watch it. I have been disappointed by every moment of this production. It's like the people producing and directing have no idea what the hell George R.R. Martin had in mind when he wrote the books. And Martin has lost his friggin' mind if he says this what he intended for the world he created. The casting has been abysmal, and even Dinklage as Tyrion (which Martin admitted was who he always kept in mind while writing the character) hasn't been able to pull it off. And I don't just mean the British accent. Just awful all around.

  • June 13, 2011, 9:18 a.m. CST

    If only Michael Ironside were younger, he'd be a great Stannis.


    Otherwise, I'd go with Oldman (as fucking if!), Mark Strong or David Thewlis.

  • June 13, 2011, 9:18 a.m. CST

    Next Week - They Live!

    by 1TrueGod

    there's only one scene that I'm interested in next week involving the khaleesi (for those who read the books you know what I'm talking about). Hoping HBO allocated a good portion of the budget on FX to truly deliver. Loved the build up, who doesn't enjoy a horse bleeding out while spilling its blood on all those who are present. Here's to book 2/season 2 - although i hope they take the A. Ball approach and begin to deviate from the books. absolutely loved book 2, but was thoroughly disappointed with Book 3.

  • June 13, 2011, 9:19 a.m. CST

    No emotional connection to this show whatsoever.

    by Snake Foreskin

    HUGE emotional connection to the books. That says it all. On another note, Sean Bean has some serious DTs. Have you noticed he always has to have something in his hands? It's because they tremble and shake. His head, too. Although not as badly as Clark Gable in that submarine movie Run Silent Run Deep. Anyway, it's apparent that Sean Bean is an alcoholic and it is really taking a toll on his health. Too bad, too. I really like him as an actor. Raging alkie or not.

  • June 13, 2011, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Frank no disrespect, but I prefer how that show did it, to your proposed scene

    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    But your idea isn't terrible!

  • June 13, 2011, 9:45 a.m. CST


    by templesweeper

    You were disappointed with Book 3? Are you joking? I thought book 3 was, by far, the best in the series. All my friends, and pretty much every talkback site I've ever read feel the same way. Book 2 was awesome, of course, but it's usually book 4 people complain about, but that was only half a book. By the time HBO gets to season 4 it won't be based on book 4. It will be based on book 4 and 5 since chronologically they take place at the same time. So season 4 will be based on the first halves of books 4 and 5 and season 5 will be based on the second half of books 4 and 5. At least, that is what SHOULD happen. There's no way they do a full season 4 without two of the most popular characters in the series. Of course, they may break book 3 into two seasons, since it is so long. That or they will have to order more than 10 episodes. They would need 15 at least.

  • June 13, 2011, 9:45 a.m. CST


    by Fico

    I get that you love the books, and so do I, but it seems pretty obvious the actors you have in mind for these characters do not actually exist if you think the casting is terrible.

  • June 13, 2011, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Grendel, that really was a pretty big spoiler

    by SuperXY

    Dude, any moderately intelligent person who has paid attention to the things that have happened on the show could figure out what your comment meant. And if it wasn't a huge deal HBO would have included it in the trailer for next week. For gods sake, they showed someone being called king, but left out what you mentioned.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:04 a.m. CST

    Herc if you thought the supporting characters were interesting so far...

    by DougMcKenzie

    They get balls out insane coming up here ( I'll do it in vague descriptions to avoid spoliers)....Zombie creating Wizards, shapeshifting assassins, a female that makes Red Sonja look like Urkel, an old sailor that's a closet military genius, and a guy from the desert out for some long boiling revenge.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:05 a.m. CST

    So happy people have taken to this show.

    by nostairway

    When it debuted I was really worried that the slow pace in the beginning would scare off some people. The fact that a lot of people stuck around makes me think I understimated the average viewer. For once I'm happy to be wrong. And on the topic of being owe me 50 bucks Lebron you Damn choke artist! As for Stannis, we know that HBO reuses a lot of actors for different shows. Now that he isn't on Treme anymore, what about John Goodman? He's a big guy who can be both likeable and menacing. I think it would be an interesting fit.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:06 a.m. CST


    by elsewhere

    I like your idea, but I felt the slow mo still worked effectively enough. Reminded me a lot of when Boromir got slaughtered at the end of Fellowship.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:08 a.m. CST


    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    Thought his demise was more powerful unseen, than any graphic shot would have done.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Truth or Dare with Tyrion Lannister?

    by frakthetoasters

    I did like that scene where Tyrion played a version of Truth or Dare with his only servant and a prostitute. Also, I believe Peter Dinklage sealed up his nomination for an Emmy and a Golden Globe with the speech about Tysha.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:25 a.m. CST

    defying franksimms

    by chiwrtr72

    The last scene was done much better than your idea. Why? It was less about the slomo than it was about the disconcerting shots.... different angles, quick cuts, blurred. The sound faded out until all you can hear is Stark's heavy breathing. It's all about Stark, how he was stripped of honor, trapped, and faced death. It is about how even though he lost in every conceivable way, Stark faces death as a soldier. Your idea doesn't focus on Stark which is the whole point of that final scene.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:27 a.m. CST


    by kells

    Blatant trolling is pathetic. Go look up "subtlety" in your Richard Scarry dictionary and come back when you can disguise your critical intentions more effectively.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:28 a.m. CST

    oh and people won't stop watching the show...

    by chiwrtr72

    for the same reason people didn't stop reading the books. A compelling story is a compelling story. While some may have started watching because of Bean, this show has woven many unique and interesting characters and scenarios. While people may be upset about Stark's death, the finale will have just as many viewers as last night's.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:33 a.m. CST

    Herc renounces the Wire?

    by Wheel99

    Omar Comin'!!!

  • June 13, 2011, 10:35 a.m. CST

    Oh fucking shit..... I am fucking in a state of shock....

    by sam jacksons wig spoilers here, but fuck that shit!!! Blown away!!!!

  • June 13, 2011, 10:36 a.m. CST

    Funniest Reaction

    by skycrapper Love this dude.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:43 a.m. CST

    santiagoanddunbar - AAAAGGHHH!!! Fucking spoiler tag! Fucking Jesus Christ!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • June 13, 2011, 10:44 a.m. CST

    Final Scene...

    by kells

    In the book the entire chapter was from Arya's point of view, and no, she didn't see the actual beheading - just the sound of Ice falling and a sigh that runs through the crowd, I think. Yoren is shielding her from actually seeing the blow fall. Switching the focus to Ned makes perfect narrative sense: he is finally bending and compromising his exterior sense of honor to protect his children, as Varys suggests during their scene together (perfectly played by both actors, by the way - I am loving the guy who plays Varys). And what happens? The slow realization that by admitting to crimes he didn't commit, he will now be remembered as a traitor - note the slow pan over the faces of the crowd, the despite, the contempt. Bean plays the realization of what a farce the Game is on his face effectively, and the slow motion gives you time to appreciate how his entire arc ends here. The scene also nicely bookends the scene in the first episode: note how he tells Bran that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword - honor and recognition of a leader's duty play no real role in the Game, and Joffrey is certainly not man enough to pass the sentence AND swing the sword. People with Ned's values are good people - but unfortunately, the Game of Thrones doesn't recognize good people. Notice that you get horrified reactions from most of the "baddies" or schemers during the slow motion of this scene: Pycelle, looking shocked and making horrified gestures with his hands; Cersei desperately whispering to Joffrey and trying to change his mind; Varys, running across the Sept behind Ned in slow motion to try to talk to the king - the only one you don't see a reaction from to Joffrey's change of plans is of course...Littlefinger. The final scene slows everything down so that you can pay attention to these reactions, as well as Ned's realization that it has all been for nothing, that he never had a chance, that he was a terrible "player" - and that everyone who had been giving him advice, even Littlefinger, had been right all along. That said, when it is fear/shock at stake, what you don't see is always more effective than what you do - the awfulness of the meaty chop with a cut to black is FAR more effective cinematically than watching it actually happen - especially if the desired reaction from the audience, as it clearly was, is "Oh my God...did that just happen?" I'll also throw this in - go back and note how the series writers have foreshadowed this scene all along. The conversation between Cersei and Joffrey (was it episode 3 or 4?) shows Cersei unwittingly instructing Joffrey to do exactly what he does in this scene - he asks her shouldn't he kill his enemies, and she says yes...and that anyone not them is an enemy. Subtlety is, of course, completely lost on Joffrey, and he applies everything literally. Even Cersei didn't quite mean it like that, and both in the book and on the screen, it is pretty clear that though she has warned Ned that you either win or you die, even she knows that executing Ned on the steps of the Sept with a reasonable merciful alternative already proffered is a disaster...a disaster that the slow motion gives you time to realize and consider, as Ned does looking over the crowd. No complaints about the scene from a booklover here. Well played.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:45 a.m. CST

    SPOILERS EP 9 AND Braveheart...

    by carlotta_valdes

    ...just began book 1 (so no book spoilers). In my mind, I felt some of the same Hollywood programing kicking in while watching this final scene as with Braveheart (was unfamiliar with William Wallace's history then). As it played out...I kept stupidly hoping for some form of plausible rescue/escape for Stark like I was watching a friggin Robin Hood movie!...and of course none came. Such a tough rock/hard place situation...unable to back off his confession and expose the little incest baby king STILL for fear for his daughter's safety. One thing that they MUST show is when that little rat fuck masquerading as a king gets his from the Stark clan! What a gut punch, beautifully shot, and unbearably tragic. Hat's off to all involved in crafting this episode. Rest easy Lord Stark, you're children will honor your memory.

  • June 13, 2011, 11:01 a.m. CST

    Sam, what spoiler?

    by SantiagoAndDunbar

  • June 13, 2011, 11:08 a.m. CST

    My only complaint of this episode was

    by skycrapper

    The Battle of the Greenfork could have been handled better. We never "saw" the whispering woods so that didn't bother me that much. Everything else was top notch. Ned's scene made me get a lump in the throat all over again.

  • June 13, 2011, 11:22 a.m. CST

    Only complaints

    by lowman

    They did not show Robb making a brave and bold military descion by splitting his force and taking the SMALLER of the 2 forces and catching the Lannisters off guard. Tyrion getting knocked out... I knew as soon as I saw his helmet that they were going to screw that up. And why was Jamie in some cheap leather armor? He is the Kingslayer and he is always clad in gold from head to toe!

  • June 13, 2011, 11:34 a.m. CST

    Pretty big spoiler!!!

    by Marlboroliteman

    The chick in the Crying Game is a dude.

  • June 13, 2011, 11:38 a.m. CST

    more on the end...

    by Frank Dills

    For a death done correctly, and out of nowhere, look at the Wire and Omar’s demise. No one will argue that the Wire is the zenith of television entertainment. In the visual medium you have a huge advantage over the written word in that you can use some sleight of hand. The reason that my idea is awesome is that there is no telegraphing the moment before hand. Ned’s on stage, give’s his speech, then boom his head is gone. The time to slow it down and do the silent stuff would have been when his head was laying on the ground staring at Arya, do that whole shot slow and then when The King kicks his head into the crowd bring everything back to normal speed. I remember after Omar’s death sitting around for another 15 minutes in shock. The people I was watching the show with Sunday who had no idea what was going to happen were saddened, but agreed with me that it was poorly done. Way to Hollywood, way to deliberately designed to beg for an emotional response.

  • June 13, 2011, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Frank's ending

    by Therawbeats

    Sorry to "defy" you but nothing could top how they did that scene. Ned realizing he just sold out his honor for nothing, but then seeing that at least Yoren got Arya out of harms way before she did something stupid was just great. Not sure what your problem with the slow motion was but hell, it's the most important scene in the book and that only made it feel bigger. Perfect as is.

  • June 13, 2011, 11:51 a.m. CST


    by Therawbeats

    You want to focus on Arya's reaction, but Arya never sees Ned get his head chopped, Yoren shields her from it.

  • June 13, 2011, 11:52 a.m. CST

    What kells said...

    by BiggusDickus

    Sorry, Frank - you're on your own. They played it perfectly for me.

  • June 13, 2011, 12:11 p.m. CST


    by Bumb48

    The TV version was much better than your version.

  • June 13, 2011, 12:16 p.m. CST

    Lucky Wander Boy by D.B. Weiss (writer of last night's episode)

    by Sick Fixx

    If you enjoy his style (as much as can be seen by him adapting Martin's work), check out his only published novel, Lucky Wander Boy. It really is a piece of work and deserves to be more widely read. I used to exchange e-mails with him and stay on him about writing another novel, but I got the impression he said what he wanted to say with Lucky Wander Boy or he was less than thrilled with the reception of LWB (I can hardly blame him if that's true). In any case, he's a great guy who genuinely seems humbled by fans taking interest in him. Go search out Lucky Wander Boy on Amazon and show your appreciation for this man's fine writing talents.

  • June 13, 2011, 12:22 p.m. CST

    @franksimms: The wheels of wrong go round and round...

    by tailhook

    The whole point of the Ned Stark character is to give us that protagnist yes. But just as in the book, killing off that character is done purposefully and willingly because the story being told is far bigger than that of one man. This isn't The Lord of The Rings(most people's introduction to fantasy) going on here where one man(allbeit small) in the from of Frodo Baggins saves the world and all humanity and whatever over the course of 3 books. Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, Robb, Jon, Cersei, Jamie, Littlefinger, etc are ALL the main characters in the story and no one character truly drives it. In fact, they're lucky if they simply survive it. Each is meant as a 'window' onto their part of the world and their part of the story and the events transpiring that either they have some sort of control over and are able to play the Game of Thrones, or they don't and find themselves ground up in it. Ned getting killed shifts the focus from him to them and its absolutely critical in creating that epic scope. As per your whole malarchy about how it should have been done. The difference is all you want is to shock for shock's sake, all HBO and the makers of GoT want is to tell a story. Thats why they do what they do, and you post talkbacks. Oh, and Omar Little going out in the way he did worked because that was pretty much the only way he could go out. It was the bullet he didn't see coming from a person he didn't view as a threat. Eventually everybody gets got, and he was no exception.

  • June 13, 2011, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Stannis Baratheon should be played by Mark Pellegrino

    by V'Shael

    Make it happen.

  • June 13, 2011, 12:26 p.m. CST

    Well said tailhook

    by SantiagoAndDunbar

  • June 13, 2011, 12:41 p.m. CST

    Frank's idea does not equal awesome.

    by chiwrtr72

    The people I was watching the show with Sunday who had no idea what was going to happen were saddened, but agreed with me that it was poorly done.

  • June 13, 2011, 12:43 p.m. CST


    by NoQuarter

    Was it just me, or did that actress completely knock it out of the park in the last scene. She is surprisingly compelling to watch, which is fitting because Arya is a surprisingly compelling character.

  • June 13, 2011, 12:44 p.m. CST

    Frank, the "shocking" moment

    by jim

    wasn't Ned's head coming off, it was Joffrey asking for it. Once Joffrey called for Ned's head, he was as good as dead. Everything that happened between the sentence and the sword swinging gave the audience time to feel the finality of his situation. I'm sure there were those who thought there might be a last second, saved by the skin of his teeth, rescue or reprieve. Imagine how much more gutted those viewers were, having been given a few seconds of "maybe..." only to have those last-ditch desires torn to shreds before their very eyes.

  • June 13, 2011, 12:49 p.m. CST

    Who was the guy who holds Arya at the end?

    by Spielbergs Furious Racism

    I've seen some people here call him Yoren- Wasn't Yoren Ned's right hand man who Jaime stabbed in the eye? I didn't think he looked familiar, and I was pretty sure that Yoren, you know, died. Did he survive? Am I thinking of someone else? TELL ME DAMNIT.


  • June 13, 2011, 12:55 p.m. CST

    Jory was the guy who took the sword to the eye

    by jim

    Yoren was the Night's Watch "recruiter" who travelled with Tyrion south (until Tyron got taken). He had met Ned a few episodes earlier (and Arya too).

  • June 13, 2011, 12:58 p.m. CST

    Baelor was the name of the dude whose statue Arya was on.

    by jim

  • June 13, 2011, 1:02 p.m. CST

    By way of Yoren ....

    by Itchy

    remember that Jeor Mormont (the head of the Nights Watch) had sent him to Kings Landing again to recruit for the watch. Yoren was known to both the Lannisters and Starks, and it is generally understood that the Starks and the Nightwatch are close, with the Starks always providing aid and assistance at nearby Winterfell, and Ned Stark's brother, Benjen, being First Ranger. Yoren knew Arya from Winterfell and from meeting Ned prior, and would have had motivation to shield her from the horror of watching what happened on the steps of Baelor's Sept (as Yoren, moreso in the books where the backstory is a bit deeper, is presented as a generally good guy)

  • June 13, 2011, 1:03 p.m. CST

    That's it, I'm sold.

    by MoffatBabies

    I'm picking up the first book TODAY. Been reading a lot of non-fiction lately, as well as just finishing American Gods (which I loved). I have never, since The Hobbit, picked up any fantasy genre novel. (and it is still the ONLY one, although I did pick up Sword of Shannara in HS, which was funny because someone here proclaimed it as something one would do in HS... even though I gave up on it right around the time I got in my first band) This series has changed all of that for me. I now MUST know these people. I MUST know their motivations and inner thoughts. I MUST know what happens next. I predict that by the end of summer I will be caught up, as I've been quite the "reader" this year. Oh, HBO, I can barely afford you. But how I love you right now. To think I almost canceled you a few months back. Don't get this show free, folks. Pay for it. And by the way... although a VERY different kind of show, I cannot get enough Treme. Yes, it meanders, yes it can drag. But I'll be damned if it isn't compelling and engrossing anyway. However, if I have to see that guy from The Pacific do that goddamned "latin dance" thing he does one more time, I'll never listen to any latin music again. Cringeworthy. Even though his character is interesting in that I'm still not sure if he's a great guy or not. One second he seems like a leech of a human, the next like he has a heart and really wants to make a difference. oh and... FUCK THE LANNISTERS!!

  • June 13, 2011, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Goddamn I cannot keep all these names and similar faces straight.

    by Spielbergs Furious Racism

    Still great stuff despite my short attention span.

  • June 13, 2011, 1:05 p.m. CST

    ... and I will NEVER spoil anything here...

    by MoffatBabies

    EVER. and again.... FUCK the Lannisters.

  • June 13, 2011, 1:06 p.m. CST

    I do wonder if this is maybe the best ad for a book series

    by MoffatBabies

    in all of history.

  • June 13, 2011, 1:17 p.m. CST


    by Marlboroliteman

    Yea in your version when the king kicks his head into the crowd it should land in front of a young would be soccer star who kicks it up and begin to dribble it on his knees and starts doing these amazing soccer moves with the head. King joffrey sees how brilliant and talented this kid is decides to start a soccer team making the kid team captain......

  • June 13, 2011, 1:23 p.m. CST


    by HoboCode

    Throw me in with those handing him an Emmy right now. His rallying speech to the barbarians actually got me pumped. Made Braveheart sound like a bitch. And him getting knocked out was not only hilarious but perfect. He may be cunning and likable, but he's still a coward. At least for now. I'm guessing he'll finally overcome this personal fault when he bitchslaps his asshole sibs in a big way.

  • June 13, 2011, 1:27 p.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    Moffat you make a very solid point, and it could also go for True Blood, Twilight, and several other works that have been adapted to film. It's nice to see people reading again. As you can tell from my reviews and thoughts, I would have made a hell of a writer but I decided to go another way. Watching GoT has me thinking that perhaps some day I could do an epic story about my life in Detroit, my early days with YBI, etc. I would see it as Lord of the Rings meets Friday, truly epic stuff. Marlborolite, That's way over the top. It would totally take away the impact of the scene I was going for and make it ridiculous. I understand people have disagreed with me about how the ending could have been done better, to each his own. Overall I didn't think it was horrible, it's just that we have seen that kind of slow down, dove's flying, isolated breathing thing before. I would have liked to go for a more real time, gritty look at Ned's end.

  • June 13, 2011, 1:29 p.m. CST


    by BilboRing

    I must admit your ending idea is truly gay and totally cliche and lame. You hate the show and I don't get that either. I have a friend who also hates the show and all of the people they cast. But he is a miserable person anyway no matter what. The show is great. Has some flaws but that is mostly because of HBO giving just 10 episodes and a limited budget. This is a masterpiece of a show. Try to enjoy it instead of picking it apart.

  • June 13, 2011, 1:29 p.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    Dinklage is a sure thing Emmy. Who else would claim to be better in a supporting role this year? It's hard to think of any other actor that has so comfortably fit into a role and not slipped up. His speech about his true love was for me much sadder than Ned's demise.

  • June 13, 2011, 1:30 p.m. CST


    by BilboRing

    Book 3 was bad? You just proved you know shit and eat shit from your mother's ass.

  • June 13, 2011, 1:34 p.m. CST


    by NoQuarter

    Frank said: "As you can tell from my reviews and thoughts, I would have made a hell of a writer but I decided to go another way." Yeah, you apparently became a giant douchebag instead.

  • June 13, 2011, 1:37 p.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    I don't hate the show at all my friend. I enjoy it a great deal. I hate Emilia Clarke, I would never deny that. Outside of the one scene in the market where they attempted to poison her, I have found her performance beyond horrible. If you notice she spends most of her time starring off into space. I have went on and on about the evil queen, Dinklage, Robb, Barron, etc. and how fantastic I think they are. I would say I like 60-70% of the show. That's certainly enough to merit watching eh? They could win a lot of points with me next year if we could just film more outside, and less in tents. My take on Ned's demise may not be your cup of tea, but it's far from ridiculous and I would guess in a lot of people's minds superior to what we got.

  • June 13, 2011, 1:41 p.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    We are all douche bags when it's said and done sir, and we are all great. That's the duplicity of humanity at it's most basic.

  • June 13, 2011, 1:41 p.m. CST

    nostairway - john goodman for stanis

    by antonphd

    interesting. that would mean that the barathean brothers would be played by the two men who played fred flintstone in the live action films

  • June 13, 2011, 1:52 p.m. CST


    by BilboRing

    I always saw King Robert as John Goodman with black hair and black beard. I man who is huge and powerful but grossly overweight now. But someone you would still stay away from pissing off ans a person you has a likeable quality to him. Stannis is leaner and more slim. Just as tall and pretty big (Baratheons are said to have giant's blood in them) but not so sloppy. I can't really think of anyone to play him. But they are sure as hell pumping him up in the show. Almost every episode has his name mentioned in it. The guy playing Tywin could have made a good Stannis.

  • I understand they had a similar thought when casting The Hound & The Mountain, but both Rick Moranis & Stephen Baldwin passed.

  • June 13, 2011, 2:04 p.m. CST

    @franksimms: You would have made a horrible writer

    by tailhook

    And we all thank god you went another way.

  • June 13, 2011, 2:05 p.m. CST

    Now that's funny BigJim...

    by Frank Dills

    While we may have lost some opportunities with casting, on other shows fascinating questions have been answered. I always wondered what would happen if Don Knotts was cast to play the Godfather, then we got Boardwalk Empire.

  • June 13, 2011, 2:22 p.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    A writer will always have critics, it's part of the deal and I accept that. That being said, my confidence is unshakeable. Someday you might be saying to someone, hey that dude on the best seller list, Frank Simms, I used to talk to him on the internet.

  • June 13, 2011, 2:45 p.m. CST


    by HoboCode

    Thank you for the Don Knotts-Godfather line. That one gave me a hearty laugh.

  • I am happy to see so many critics comparing Game of Thrones to the Wire in terms of quality: see virtually every professional critic's review of last night's episode. I haven't read a single professional review critical of the way the final scene was rendered, and in fact most are waxing authoritatively poetic about it. I repeat: every single professional review I have found (outside this forum...imagine that) is heaping praise on the scene and the narrative decision, the timing of it, and the fact that if Game loses viewers it matters little when a narrative of such quality is being told so damn well. Read for yourselves...,57424/,57425/

  • June 13, 2011, 3:25 p.m. CST

    Tailhook regarding Franksimms

    by Marlboroliteman

    I agree Franksimms is a god-awful horrible writer with terrible ideas. His revised ending was laughable but with the soccer angle I proposed to be added on to his version would have reached greatness.

  • June 13, 2011, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Frank is clearly joking around

    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    Don't get so worked up about it guys

  • June 13, 2011, 3:37 p.m. CST

    I love this guy's take

    by Gene_Parmesan I agree. When I read that in the book, I thought it was some boolshit too.

  • June 13, 2011, 3:42 p.m. CST

    Book 3/Season 3

    by bryrb1277

    Better and even more surprises.... Season two will set it up nicely if it is even close to the books.

  • June 13, 2011, 3:53 p.m. CST


    by BiggusDickus

    Thanks for those links, mate!

  • June 13, 2011, 3:54 p.m. CST


    by lock67ca

    Man, he's pissed. Poor dude's going to have a stroke by season three, if he makes it that far.

  • June 13, 2011, 4:11 p.m. CST

    Special edition Blue Rays

    by PlayerHater_of_the_year

    With beefed up effect shots would be awesome. I don't mean terrible SW SD crapification but It would add to the story to see a giant Dothraki horde instead of a smaller trailing group or Rob's 20k army marching to war. I think this would be both profitable for blueray/dvd sales and add to the story rather than detract from it. I think the show does a great job within the budget constraints but If it proves profitable why not add a quality layer of LOTR style effects. I'd buy it.

  • I think that would best be handled by giving small moments of action, much like it does in A Clash of Kings, Except of course for Davos Seaworth, we should see his story and the revelation of Melisandre all the way through. But every other battle should just be small moments of clanging weapons and armor. I really hope they find a stern, taciturn motherfucker to play Stannis Baratheon, I think he actually is starting to become one of my favorite characters, as the books progress.

  • June 13, 2011, 4:18 p.m. CST


    by 2LeggedFreak

    If you are going to wax lyrical on how you would do things better then you'd do well to start by getting the fucking characters names right :- Its T Y R I O N

  • June 13, 2011, 5:01 p.m. CST


    by BSB

    Holy shit!

  • June 13, 2011, 5:07 p.m. CST

    Not trolling, just expressing my heartfelt opinions...

    by Snake Foreskin

    I think they have made a terrible mess of things with this show. I knew there would be problems when they cast Lena Headey as Cersei. Most beautiful woman in the realms? Are you kidding me? She always looks as if she smelled a particularly bad bit of flatulence. Or if she's confused. That's NOT Cersei. And casting Dennis Leary as Jamie was a huge mistake as well. The Dink as Tyrion was a no-brainer, right? But he isn't being directed well so he's not portraying Tyrion well. Especially the awful accent. I could go on with bad casting choices pretty much across the board, but why bother? You guys apparently have no taste or discernment. Anyway, the Song of Ice & Fire books are one of my favorite series, and I cannot help but think this is a poor representation of them. And I have no idea who thought I didn't like book three. You must have me confused with someone else. I already have Book 5 pre-ordered. I can't wait to read Dance With Dragons. I only hope the next one won't take 5 friggin years! Martin owes us 2 more books in the series after this one. At this rate he won't have them finished before he's dead and buried.

  • June 13, 2011, 5:26 p.m. CST

    notaregular- Tyrion's squire

    by Cartagia

    Pod doesn't show up until book 2 does he? Because he gets him when he returns to King's Landing?

  • June 13, 2011, 5:31 p.m. CST

    Tyrion is a coward????

    by gooseud

    The last 3rd of season 2 is going to show you just how wrong you are. No character has ever dominated a season with his awesomeness the way Tyrion is going to run season 2.

  • June 13, 2011, 5:33 p.m. CST

    No, I was right about Robb and the army

    by gooseud

    Its clearly stated in the book: Robb gave control of the 18k to Roose Bolton (a ruthless older bannerman to the Starks who hasnt been shown yet) to engage and distract Tywin Lannister. They tentatively engage him, and then pretty much start withdrawing right away. Even Tywin comments that "the boy was far more cautious then I would have expected", meaning Robb, who he THINKS is in charge. Meanwhile, Robb took the 2k calvary and books it to Riverrun (thats how they can cover so much ground so quickly: they are on horseback).

  • June 13, 2011, 5:40 p.m. CST

    Casting in my head...

    by BiggusDickus

    For the most part, I've been pleasantly surprised by the casting in this show. Jorah for example is nothing like he's described in the book, but Ian Glenn owns the part totally. Dinklage IS Tyrion - and Charles Dance, though not bald with bushy mutton-chops, has Tywin Lannister nailed. Though I'm not at the Frank Simms level of bile, Emilia Clarke's Dany is slightly missing the beat, but the most heinous crime for me came with this episode - Shae is wrong, wrong, wrong. Shae in the book is a cocky, clever, witty girl. She's smart enough for Tyrion to genuinely fall for her. Making her a foreign sexpot just doesn't work and was the first misstep that HBO have made IMHO. To the future then, let's have Mark Strong for Stannis, Famke Janssen for Melisandre, Mark Sheppard for Mance Rayder, Kevin Whately for Davos and a dressed-down, sans-makeup Lucy Lawless for Brienne. ...and I get to play Patchface. "I know,I know, oh, oh, oh!"

  • June 13, 2011, 5:43 p.m. CST

    By the way - Wilko Johnson? Wilko fucking Johnson!?!

    by BiggusDickus

    The legendary Dr. Feelgood / Blockheads guitarist is now lopping heads off traitors! Fucking sublime!

  • June 13, 2011, 5:50 p.m. CST

    It took me awhile to realize where I recognized Joffrey from.

    by AzulTool

  • June 13, 2011, 6:16 p.m. CST

    Lucy Lawless is too old for Brienne.

    by V'Shael

    In her prime though, good choice.

  • June 13, 2011, 6:32 p.m. CST


    by NotARegular

    I wasn't sure myself initially, had to double check it in the book but Podrick shows up just before the Battle of the Green Fork. Nothing big, he basically helps Tyrion get fitted in his armor and there's mention of him being Ilyn Payne's nephew. They already pushed back the Blackfish to season 2, might be that they're saving Podrick for next season as well. Now that Sean Bean's gone, they might have some extra spending money for new castmembers.

  • June 13, 2011, 6:40 p.m. CST


    by NotARegular

    That's some spot on casting there. I could see all of those actors in those roles save for Lucy Lawless. 20-something year old Brienne played by 40-something year old Lucy is too much of a stretch. Mark Strong for sure though. I'm still on the books and I'm already visualizing Mark whenever Stannis pops up.

  • June 13, 2011, 6:54 p.m. CST

    Saw last episode (awesome)

    by Turingtestee

    Didnt like the casting of Lord Frey and Maester Aemon (dudes didnt look nearly ancient or frail enough), Shae (my mind pictured a bubbly Jennifer Lawrence type), Bronn (not handsome and too old), or Osha (I pictured the tomboy from Dragonslayer).

  • June 13, 2011, 7:06 p.m. CST

    Book Series...

    by Gary Cochran

    Right now SciFi Book club has a special with the 1st 3 books of this series in hardcover for $32 (+ S&H). Whole thing cost me $41 and it should arrive in the mail by the end of the week. I like the series so much I plan on buying all the books. I can't wait!!!

  • June 13, 2011, 7:07 p.m. CST

    @ franksimms

    by QuietMan297

    ...respectfully disagree. I liked the Braveheart ending better than your imagined Invictus one. And Frank, if you're gonna write a bestseller to shut everyone up, then write it, man. No sarcasm, name-calling or insults, veiled or otherwise. Only the Nike slogan, just do it. I have notice a few of the names are a little similar to each other — Robert, Robb, Robin, Vyseris, Varys, Tyrion, Tywin, Jory, Jeor, Jorah, Yoren. But no big deal if you're paying attention. Book one is awesome, I look forward to the rest of the series, both on HBO and in print.

  • June 13, 2011, 7:19 p.m. CST

    HOLLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by Professor_Bedlam

    Need I say more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • June 13, 2011, 7:25 p.m. CST

    I want to read the books

    by Extr3m1st

    I have already watched this whole season up to now. Should I start with book 2 or will I miss out a lot by not reading book 1? Is season 1 the full first book or no?

  • June 13, 2011, 7:28 p.m. CST

    Sean Bean is f*cking epic. That is all.

    by Boober

    Brilliant how Ned is written as the everyman just trying to do the right thing in a world that tries to eff you over at every turn for trying to do the right thing...Palpable outrage when you so closely identify with it. Smart writing.

  • June 13, 2011, 7:32 p.m. CST

    Yeah, the Lucy Lawless thing...

    by BiggusDickus

    I confess, I don't know any young Amazonian actresses for Brienne of Tarth. A young, blonde Julie T. Wallace would do, though!

  • June 13, 2011, 7:33 p.m. CST

    Yes, read the books

    by gooseud

    there are a thousand awesome details and rich background info that there simply isnt time to show in the series, especially on Robert's war of rebellion, you REALLLLLY find out alot more about the history of that in the books.

  • June 13, 2011, 7:34 p.m. CST


    by BiggusDickus

    Read Book One. So much subtlety and nuance that this (excellent) tv series missed. THEN, read straight into 'A Clash Of Kings' and 'A Storm Of Swords' - your imagination will thank you for it!

  • June 13, 2011, 7:39 p.m. CST

    Agreed, definitely read from book 1

    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    As great as this series has been it's not a substitute for the actual book.

  • June 13, 2011, 7:50 p.m. CST

    Once Joffrey called for...he was as good as...

    by Boober

    One order kills two people. I find it interesting that everyone desperately trying to stop him in that one critical moment had a slightly different motive for doing so. The "he" you refer to is open to interprentation. Brilliant.

  • June 13, 2011, 8:01 p.m. CST

    Amusing Wire Season Six Tidbit

    by fbarich

    The Attorney-General's kind remarks are noted and appreciated," Simon wrote in an email to The Times of London. "I've spoken to Ed Burns and we are prepared to go to work on season six of The Wire if the Department of Justice is equally ready to reconsider and address its continuing prosecution of our misguided, destructive and dehumanising drug prohibition.

  • June 13, 2011, 8:02 p.m. CST

    Try again

    by fbarich

    The Attorney-General's kind remarks are noted and appreciated," Simon wrote in an email to The Times of London. "I've spoken to Ed Burns and we are prepared to go to work on season six of The Wire if the Department of Justice is equally ready to reconsider and address its continuing prosecution of our misguided, destructive and dehumanising drug prohibition.

  • June 13, 2011, 8:04 p.m. CST

    The wire

    by fbarich,0,5868245.story

  • June 13, 2011, 8:13 p.m. CST


    by batmancw

    If you're gonna' read them--Read them from book one, as the show has to condense the story quite a bit. These books grow to a cast of hundreds of main and semi main characters so it should be interesting to see how they "trim" the series as it grows. Also read the backstory on ASOIAF wiki to get a quick insight into the history of Westeros,, the Wall, the prior war with the White Walkers, the role of dragons, etc, etc. You'll catch up with martin though,because he takes 5-6 years o crank out a book, so I imagine HBO will have to set a fire under his ass to procduce the final 2 volumes.

  • June 13, 2011, 8:34 p.m. CST

    Some choice quotes from Season Two...

    by BiggusDickus


  • June 13, 2011, 8:38 p.m. CST

    A knight's a sword with a horse.

    by BiggusDickus

    "...the rest, the vows and the sacred oild and the lady's favours; they're silk ribbons tied round the sword.

  • June 13, 2011, 8:46 p.m. CST

    ...but mainly we like:

    by BiggusDickus

    The'th worth a bag of thapphireth!

  • June 13, 2011, 9:34 p.m. CST

    Brienne of Tarth

    by VegasRonReturns

    I'd like to see Zoe Bell play the role, though she may be too good looking for the part. I wouldn't mind some retconning of her character(looks-wise) like they did with Tyrion.<p> As a stunt woman, she could obviously do her own stunts and probably look like a badass when swinging the sword.

  • June 13, 2011, 9:38 p.m. CST


    by D Ropaela

  • June 13, 2011, 9:40 p.m. CST

    Zoe Bell WOULD be good for Brienne, yes.

    by D Ropaela

    Or Clea Duvall.

  • June 13, 2011, 9:42 p.m. CST

    Aw Sean Bean, how many times have I seen you die?

    by SID 8.0

    Fellowship of the Ring, Goldeneye, Equillibrium, National Treasure and really we all would have preferred Cage to die. The Hitcher, Patriot Games. Haven't read the books but Joffrey has to die as bad as the Targaryian douche brother. Love this show more and more. Give Dinklage his emmy now, or John Noble either one. Nice faint to capture Jaime too.

  • June 13, 2011, 9:52 p.m. CST

    I mean feint.

    by SID 8.0

  • June 13, 2011, 10:02 p.m. CST

    Frank Simms..

    by Jason

    Sage of the modern era, or absolute dick bag? You be the judge. (the correct answer is dick bag)

  • June 13, 2011, 10:04 p.m. CST

    great episode

    by Nemesis Enforcer

    winter came....

  • June 13, 2011, 10:10 p.m. CST

    LOL "dick bag"

    by gooseud

    what exactly would an actual bag of dicks look like? I assume that is supposed to be derogatory, right?

  • June 13, 2011, 10:11 p.m. CST

    huuuuuuge spoiler

    by SatchelpantsRodriguez

    bruce willis is a ghost. he's been a ghost the entire time........HAHAHAHA

  • June 13, 2011, 10:11 p.m. CST

    anyone who has read book 4 shudders at the name Brienne

    by gooseud

    the most completely useless and boring character in the history of the world.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:14 p.m. CST

    "We're not doing it your way." Robb is growing up fast.

    by SID 8.0

    And when he asked Cat "Did you get a look at any of them?" Asking about Frey's daughters, fucking hilarious. Man I hope Drogo's okay too poor Dany she would be a single mom and Khaleesi. That's tough.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:24 p.m. CST

    Sean Bean in Natonal Treasure...

    by NotARegular

    He didn't die. Just arrested by the FBI.

  • June 13, 2011, 10:58 p.m. CST


    by BSB

    I caught a glimpse of it in the battlefield scene. This show is ruthless.

  • June 13, 2011, 11:12 p.m. CST


    by BSB

    Hate to see Bean gone from the show.

  • June 14, 2011, 12:22 a.m. CST

    Who took down Jamie?

    by Billyeveryteen

    Or did he puss out when outnumbered?

  • June 14, 2011, 12:26 a.m. CST

    Who's Ned?...

    by MagicJesus

    Ned's dead baby...

  • June 14, 2011, 1:38 a.m. CST

    billyeveryteen- In the books it is more clear

    by Cartagia

    Jaime fights his way through About half of Robb's personal guard, finally being taken down mere feet from him.

  • June 14, 2011, 3:47 a.m. CST

    Awesome - And now I am UNspoiled

    by theGoldbergV

    great episode. The impact of the final scene was rather lost on me because of some CUNT in one of the early talkbacks who wrote - and I remember it well - "I wonder if the audience will stick around after Sean Bean gets beheaded". What a prick that guy is. Please, if anyone remembers his name put it on here. So since then I've been expecting and waiting for it to happen. Still, the final scene was perfect. That dawning look of realisation on Ned's face, his final look to the where Arya was, it was haunting. To frank, I get what you're saying about the Hollywoodisation (?) but TV is a visual medium, you need slo-mo sometimes to give the audience time to FEEL for the character. In a book, over the course of a few paragraphs or pages the reader can identify with the situation, if the scene had played out all at normal speed Ned would be dead before the enormity of the events had time to sink in. Just my take on it. Has Stannis been cast yet? Does anyone know? And do they not have funerals in Kings Landing?

  • June 14, 2011, 5:17 a.m. CST

    My bad

    by mrskeletor

    I was wrong earlier about the armies. Yes they do have funerals in kings landing, though not for traitors. Stannis hasn't been cast yet.

  • June 14, 2011, 5:29 a.m. CST


    by theGoldbergV

    I just thought the King's brothers might have turned up at his funeral. But then I remembered the whole "disputed throne" business and realised why that didn't happen. As a none book reader its sometimes hard to keep track of all the names and whether oft-mentioned characters have appeared yet.

  • June 14, 2011, 6:15 a.m. CST

    @TheGoldbergV - The spoilers name was "dancingforever"

    by V'Shael

    If they end this season where I think they might, with Ned being beheaded, you lose the best actor on the show and whatever audience is still awake.

  • just to be a dick, when people start complaining about the Ned spoiler.

  • June 14, 2011, 6:23 a.m. CST

    Lucy Lawless is too hot to play Brienne ....

    by Itchy

    you could actually see yourself fucking Lucy without barfing. You need some bulky, heinous bitch to play her. Something like a young Chyna. I'm sure they'll find some chick playing catcher for a college softball team out there who will fit the bill nicely.

  • June 14, 2011, 6:52 a.m. CST

    I wish there was some way to deal with...

    by Frank Dills

    The spoiler people but it's hopeless. These talkbacks could dwarf the Docbacks but about 80% of the people here won't even read these anymore which really kills discussion. To make it worse, last week some idiot was posting GoT spoilers in random talkbacks, especially the Conan one. I'm sure next season will be no different. As sad as it makes me to say, if you really like the show and don't want to know what's coming, this isn't the place for you. The killer with the guy last week who was posting them, he basically was laughing about it saying who cares and telling people to get over it, then he would post more. As I have said before, the tragedy of the commons is perfectly demonstrated on the internet.

  • June 14, 2011, 6:53 a.m. CST

    Adria Dawn would facially make a good Brienne,

    by V'Shael

    but she's way too skinny. Ideally, you need a plain jane looking actress, with a big muscular body.

  • June 14, 2011, 6:53 a.m. CST

    Adria head shot.

    by V'Shael

  • June 14, 2011, 7:09 a.m. CST

    Final Scene and thoughts on the episode...

    by Anirban

    I don't really think I would change anything with the final scene. I sat in a room with 3 people who had read the books and 3 that hadn't. Everyone thought it was perfect. And you didn't need to show the head getting cut. As someone said earlier, it was from Arya's point of view in the book. And at the last second she doesn't see it because of Yoren. Everyone's reactions in this last shot (during slow-mo) was perfect. Let the war escalate! This show is a revolving door of characters. If you don't have the patience and the curiousity by this point to want to know how it will all play out- then you need to find something else. As a fan of the books, I think they have done an amazing job. Never mind tent shots, and the battles that are not being shot. Just listen to Tyrion explain his past lover to Bronn and Shae again, and realize this is a show about struggles, lies, betrayals, honour, lust, family, love, etc. all interwoven into wonderful CHARACTERS. Would I like to see Jaime cut down 10 guards (it is not even described in the book)? OF COURSE I WOULD! But there is no way around the battles that are to come, and HBO will have to show those. Let them save it for later! I disagree completely with Frank that people will stop watching this show because Ned is gone. It will only make more people invest in it. The thought of killing a main character at any point in the story, is what keeps it suspenseful. Finale should have only one brilliant ending. I can't wait to see the non book readers faces!

  • June 14, 2011, 7:19 a.m. CST

    I haven't read the books so I avoid all TBs or comment

    by SID 8.0

    sections on other sites until I've seen the episode for myself. Oh yeah my bad about National Treasure. Still wish cage had died in that movie. Downloading the books today.

  • June 14, 2011, 7:41 a.m. CST


    by skycrapper

    No new characters have been cast yet. The anouncement should be coming down soon though. According to GRRM serveral offers have already gone out for serveral different characters.

  • And I aint gonna spoil it. But if it involves the girl it should involve. OMG!!!

  • June 14, 2011, 10:03 a.m. CST


    by BSB

    Tyrion in a bed full of whores.

  • June 14, 2011, 10:08 a.m. CST

    The Theme Music

    by templesweeper

    I usually fast-forward through the opening titles of TV shows. Especially long ones. But for some reason, I can't get enough of the theme song to Game of Thrones. And I like how the map isn't always the same from week to week. They kind of adapt the opening credits to fit the story for the given week. I am off to go buy it on iTunes.

  • June 14, 2011, 11:13 a.m. CST


    by kesoze4

    Once again, my friend... sigh. 1) Ned's death won't turn away viewers, rather do quite the opposite. THIS is what you thought would push people off the show?! I thought you meant something else. Man, do you have no sense of humor behavior whatsoever? The word of mouth fallout from poor Nedly is going to ensure that the S2 premiere audience is huge, after everyone's had a year to catch up on DVD, iTunes, torrents, etc. 2) Please stop trying to sound intellgent. You're not. You don't sound like an English professor. You're not cool for using "tragedy of the commons", mostly because you're using it wrong. "Tragedy of the commons" doesn't mean "when a big group of people get together invariably someone fucks it up" (however true), it refers to sustainable resources and how if we pool our limited supplies and everyone acts in their own best interests, inevitably those supplies run out faster. It doesn't apply to this situation. This situation is simply "the tragedy of internet anonymity leading to people being asshats".

  • June 14, 2011, 11:36 a.m. CST

    And not to leave on a negative note

    by kesoze4

    But damn that was such a good episode. Couple thoughts, these from a reader of the books who can put all that aside and just comment on where the show is now: * My biggest peeve was personal -- I'd just always pictured that scene playing out on the steps of a big, Notre-Damn-esque cathedral, with all the audience looking up to the players with the church stretching out above, and the tiny little mosque they had in place of Baelor's was kinda weak. That said, even knowing what was coming, it still kicked me in the gut. Arya's reaction and Yoren's protecting of her was effing dead-on. * Thought Varys running screaming at the steps was pretty cool, showing he really is all about peace in the realm * Ditto that Cercei. She has her own agenda, but even she knew how bad it's going to get now. Rather than shaking him she should have been slapping Joff slippy. * Yoren and Arya and anyone else even remotely connected to the north need to get the hell out of the city, and now. * Loved Jon being talked out of running south. What would he do there anyway? Just be yet another soldier? * Loved LOVED finding out that Jorah Mormont was the Old Bear's son, and that even as Jorah was asskicking the horselord's man, Jon was receiving the sword that should have been Jorah's. Badass. * Whatever was going on in Dany's tent, that was some freaky shit. And I don't care how many times anyone tries to tell me Dany sucks, I was blown away by her terror and determination last night as she began to realize how much Drogo mattered in her safety... and how little she had without him. * Shae was very different from the little punk girl I'd pictured (was thinking more someone akin to Gaiman's Death), yet I might like the new one more. Sexy, a little weird-looking, purely badass. I would absolutely fall in love with a girl like that and probably end up getting screwed over when I was most in over my head. That scene *was* long, yet I loved every second. Far better than more battle scenes. * While I can get over Whispering Wood, not showing Tyrion fight even just a little did a disservice to the halfman. At least let him knock a few skulls before getting knocked out next time. * As mentioned before, Tywin is too one-note as he is now, needs more character and motivation. Jaime and Cersei being around probably would help show the softer side of Lannister. * Oh god, Lord Walder Frey was *awesome*. Such a fucking dick, yet so *right*. I want more of him just ranting. * They've got a lot of shit to wrap up on Sunday to not leave everyone feeling completely despondent.

  • June 14, 2011, 11:43 a.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    Well, as I stated, I’m not saying that I would quit watching because of it, but others will. I’ve already heard from a bunch of people I work with a common sentiment, “Screw that show, I waited all year to see Ned the only guy I like get killed?” Again, not my sentiments but I fear you give the general public far to much credit. How many times have brilliant shows been unable to draw because idiots couldn’t appreciate it. GoT will be no different. I will be correct on this. Enjoy season 2, it will most likely be the last. Hopefully I’m wrong but the smart money is on a cancellation after next year. For the show to cover the span of the books we would need a minimum of what, six seasons? There’s no way. I have never stated I was brilliant. Others have but I don’t indulge this. The fact that I’m modifying stale terms like “tragedy of the commons” and applying them to the internet shows I have the ability to manipulate cultural capital. That in and of itself is impressive. But again, you are always trying to throw a wet blanket on me. I don’t like wet blankets sir. I like painting, writing, wine and women named after cars. I’m a man of the arts. Indulge life more my friend, quit worrying about me. Frank Simms likes you but you depress Frank Simms.

  • June 14, 2011, 11:53 a.m. CST

    Frank I've heard quite the opposite

    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    Everyone around me is talking about how hooked they are now that Ned is dead and what an epic show this has turned into. I haven't heard one response like the ones you claim to have heard. Also, most of these people are non-fantasy fans, so that has really pleasantly surprised me. I expect Ned's death to cause an increase in ratings for season 2, not a decline.

  • June 14, 2011, 12:11 p.m. CST

    Here's the fly in your ointment Frank

    by skycrapper

    We're not talking about the general TV audience. The American Idol, Dancing With the Stars, The Bachelor types generally aren't watching this anyways.

  • June 14, 2011, 12:14 p.m. CST

    Billyeveryteen: did Jaime puss out?

    by gooseud

    Just the opposite. When he sees its all over and hes screwed, he basically realizes this is his only chance to kill Robb and end the war, so he basically jumps down off his horse and charges into Robb's personal guard, 20 of them and 1 of him, and cuts down 10 of them, getting to within 5 feet of Robb before they finally drag him down. Jaime actually wasnt kidding in the show Thats what's awesome about GOT: Jaime is the biggest asshole on the planet. Hes also the bravest, most courageous and capable warrior in the entire show. Good and bad arent mutually exclusive in this series.

  • June 14, 2011, 12:19 p.m. CST

    ^^^and the book DOES say that

    by gooseud

    Remember, there is one of Robb's bannermen that wants to kill Jaime because his sons were in that group of 10 who got killed. Man, there is a certain scene with a bear pit coming up that is going to be literally too awesome for words.

  • June 14, 2011, 12:31 p.m. CST

    RATINGS Stay the same, despite playoffs! Awesome!

    by Anirban

    Sorry Frank. I think you are way off on the show getting cancelled. First off, those that are paying for HBO are not gonna cancel their subscription because of Ned Stark getting killed. Second, the season is not even over, and you are speaking for the "general public" there is no basis in your numbers for people up and running from the show. This JUST IN: RATINGS for EPISODE 9: This show needs time to grow. It is already doing well. Give it til the end of Season 2. If by some miracle it is done 6 years from now (maybe 10 years-because the books are gonna take their time coming out) people will rank it high on the list of best tv shows of all time. I believe that solely from the beautiful story that has been and will continue to be written. You have only read summaries of the plots of the other books. Am I right? They do not do it justice. And whatever you think you know, is pretty far from the truth. And in closing, do you really think people won't watch the finale after already watching 9 episodes in 9 weeks? Please, this thing is just starting. Just Sayin!

  • June 14, 2011, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Robb should have accepted Jaime's challenge.

    by SID 8.0

    Then he should have stabbed him in both legs and said "that was for my brother and my father. " "Now draw swords."

  • June 14, 2011, 1:13 p.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    I hope you're right, I really do. All the things you are saying were said about Carnivale, Deadwood, Rome etc. The critics loved them, generally good early numbers, then kaboom. Gone.

  • June 14, 2011, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Spoilers suck

    by Extr3m1st

    People who have read the books can't seem to help themselves unfortunately. A few of the decent posters here who have read the books still point to things that haven't happened yet and dance around the spoiler. Actually I want to read the books but then I will not be looking so forward to watching season 2. I really hate knowing what is going to happen before I watch a movie/TV show. </p> Anyway the girl who plays Arya is fantastic. I also like Sansa, only because she is a hot ginger. Glad to see it wasn't Tyrion who got killed, I knew someone important was going to die because of spoilers but I was sure it was going to be him and not Ned. Can't wait for next Sunday.

  • June 14, 2011, 1:18 p.m. CST

    Smart money is on cancellation

    by V'Shael

    God damn, if there was ever a reason to stop reading his rambling streams of crap, that's it right there.

  • June 14, 2011, 1:42 p.m. CST

    Franksimmms needs to take the black

    by Anino

    And you need to get sent north of the wall. I'm a huge fan of the books, read them all with a LOBSTER bib on (not just the summaries off of wiki). Going to go see GRRM next month when he comes to Seattle. I'm a huge fan of the show too and I love how it's all being done. BRILLIANTLY. Knowing what happens in the books doesn't ruin the show, it makes me appreciate every little detail they put in there, and how everything comes to life. Couldn't be a more perfect show--unless it were on every day with two hour episodes.

  • June 14, 2011, 1:44 p.m. CST

    I've come to accept frank for what he is

    by skycrapper

    A superlative spewing, know-it-all. That's o.k. He knows when he's wrong and that's all I ask. P.S. Frank, You really should give book 2 a chance and not just read the wiki pages.

  • June 14, 2011, 2 p.m. CST

    Jorah and Robb are the most improved from book to screen so far

    by DougMcKenzie

    Yeah the two biggest improvements have been those two. Tyrion and Bronn were always epic in the book, as well as Ned and Jon Snow... but Iain Glenn and Richard Madden have really done well with their roles. In the book, although an epic duelist, Jorah is a pretty pathetic person. The reason why he was exiled was because he was selling slaves (same as the show), but in the book it was to buy expensive presents for his gold-digging wife. Here it is unstated but implied it was to feed his starving subjects after crop failures. Also he falls hopelessly in love with Dany in the book, but I am getting the vibe he has more of a fatherly protectiveness about him on the show. Robb was very background in book one. But Madden has really given him a voice and presence. He seems much tougher and sure of himself, as the general of 20k troops he better be! As most have sent the worst interpretation have been Renly and Baelish. Renly is not a coward, and Baelish more of a confident con-man than a slimy schemer.

  • June 14, 2011, 2:07 p.m. CST

    Death to the Lannisters!!

    by MGTHEDJ

    I too was spoiled by that bastard in the TB a few weeks back, but it still was a gut-punch. Joffrey is a brat and Jon Snow, Arya and Bran need to be the ones who kill him, after Tyrion turns his back and walks away. It's not at "The Wire" yet, but I put it right behind it.

  • June 14, 2011, 2:14 p.m. CST

    Wrong about people tuning out after Ned's end...

    by lowman

    My wife has watched the show all season with me and showed no intrest in the books at all. I mean AT ALL. Her intrest has grown every week in the show and now looks foward to each Sunday but still wanted nothing to do with the books. That was until after last weeks episode, the next morning she grabbed book one and started reading like a women possesed!

  • June 14, 2011, 2:19 p.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    If I was as you describe, a self professed know it all, then I wouldn't be puzzled by the reaction here, and fandom over all. I can write a nice, tidy review of the show that I would consider a solid read. I can spend 5 paragraphs talking about everything I like about the show, Tyron, The Evil Queen, The New King, certain scenes that were gripping and perfect, the emergence of Rob, the solid job by the supporting cast etc. I can't even remember all the things I have said in a justifiably complementary manner, it's endless. That being said, because I dare to point out things about the show that aren't perfect, I've been called every name in the book. If I was such a know it all I would have some kind of theory or perhaps a stunning dissertation to deliver on why it is fandom emotions and thoughts on various artistic expressions are only expressed in absolutes. There is no middle ground, either you love the show and defend everything about it, or you hate the show and loathe everything. It's this solitary attitude that has destroyed these talkbacks and goes beyond toward most on line discussion. Holy cow, Frank Simms said the show would be cancelled after the second season because the entertainment industry has a long history of stupid decisions, what an outrageous statement that is eh? Frank thinks the general public is stupid and doesn't have the patience to stick with a non traditional narrative, wow what a fool I must be we have never seen evidence of this either have we. Look, you love the show, that's great. Nothing wrong with that, I enjoy it also. Like you i watch every week. That being said, I don't feel the need to defend it like it's a girl I'm in love with. Be a little more pragmatic and understand that the hand of general stupidity in the entertainment industry will not spare you because YOU like something. Deadwood was great, better than GoT, it got waxed. Carnivale was very comparable to GoT, people came here every week talking about how much they loved it and how perfect it was, boom it's cancelled. Rome, probably the closet to GoT in terms of genre was beloved by critics, fanboys, everyone. Cancelled. With that in mind how can anyone criticize me for making what is an obvious statement that the shows fate is far from secure? In regards to reading book 2, I don't know. I have the general outline down and the things I don't know I would like to be surprised by next year. I think it will make my reviews better and see me going in with less expectations as I did this year. From reading SoFaI, I expected a lot more than we got in terms of scopes, sets, and in Dany's case character. Dany for example was so good in the book, it would probably be a fair point that my hatred for Clarke is due to her not being able to match her performance with the literary depiction. I mean it's not even close. Also, I'm very close to engaging the writing of my first film script with a good friend. That with my painting business will not leave much time.

  • June 14, 2011, 2:20 p.m. CST


    by Extr3m1st

    The girl is smoking hot..I think she is doing a real good job with the role. I wonder if Drogo dies. Damn I want to read the damn book but I hate that I will end up spoiling myself for the TV series season 2 and beyond.

  • June 14, 2011, 2:23 p.m. CST

    Dat Asss

    by Extr3m1st </p> Dany is hot... :) I am officially obsessed.

  • June 14, 2011, 2:26 p.m. CST

    Ratings, cancellations, and other show biz BS

    by MGTHEDJ

    Now, for people concerned about cancellation, don't be. If you are sighting what happened to Carnivale, Deadwood, and Rome, only "Rome" died because of its budget. HBO had the payroll of "The Sopranos" to contend with at the same time. The BBC backed out after the first season, and Time-Warner did not shift some of that "Harry Potter" and "Batman" money to help bankroll "Rome." So after season 2 it was gone. Carnivale and Deadwood died because the head writers/showrunners quit! Yes, they got bored and walked away from the projects, especially Milch on Deadwood. David Milch is weird and just bailed on the show, and Hollywood punished him by blackballing him until this year. And then he has had to hook up with Michael Mann to launch this new show "Luck." With the NBA Finals, The Killing, and the USA Network shows all on at THE SAME EXACT TIME, for GoT to hold the audience is what HBO wants. Next week GoT's finale goes up against the finale of The Killing, the USA Network shows, and the premiere of "Falling Skies." It should hang on to the audience, and with HBO GO, DVD sales in the spring of 2012, and Martin and the writers still on board, the ratings should be better next year and GoT should run for a long time.

  • June 14, 2011, 2:37 p.m. CST

    Interesting dilemna for non-readers (to read, or not to read)

    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    What do you guys plan on doing? Personally, I think having read the books just enhances the experience, but I can understand not wanting to "spoil" anything, so what's it going to be?

  • June 14, 2011, 2:44 p.m. CST

    Dunno what to do

    by Extr3m1st

    It is going to be a long wait though between season 1 and 2 so chances of me waiting when I can read season 2 tomorrow are slim. Still I will be sad when season 2 starts and I didn't wait. I will still watch obviously. </P> Also on another note are they still going through with the Rome movie? And has Milch ever mentioned if he is ever going to finish Deadwood somehow?

  • June 14, 2011, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Carnivale correction

    by MGTHEDJ

    According to IMDB, the shows rating went down over the course of the first year, mainly due to the change of several staff writers halfway through the production of season one, making Daniel Knauf scamble to get the show on the air though that first year. He found his footing in season 2 and the ratings went back up, but it still was not enough for HBO, who were ramping up "Rome" and who had just had to ink new multi-million dollar deals with the gang over at "The Sopranos." Sorry, I confused Knaugh leaving with Tracy Torme and Ron Moore leaving "Carnivale" early that first season. Writers love HBO, but writers can make the bosses' lives an adventure.------later-----m

  • June 14, 2011, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Rome and Deadwood are gone

    by MGTHEDJ

    Actors have moved on, sets have been torn down. Maybe a "reunion" movie for both in 10-20 years when the actors are in their 50's and beyond, and Milch and Knauf need paychecks. For your "Deadwood" fix check out "Justified."

  • June 14, 2011, 3:14 p.m. CST

    For viewers, the biggest WTF moment comes NEXT episode...

    by tailhook

    For those who haven't read the books, having a main character get offed is one thing, what happens next though will either be the defining moment of the show or the point where it loses all its credibility. All depends on how its handled. Thought i'd spoil it for you Franksimms style? NEVER!

  • June 14, 2011, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Just finished reading book 1 in the series......

    by sam jacksons wig

    ....books 2, 3 and 4 are on order and will be wih me in 3-5 days. I just love what I am discovering here!!!

  • June 14, 2011, 3:21 p.m. CST

    Franksimms you really need to get over yourself

    by Anino

    Peace. That said...awesome books. Awesome show--both in their own right. Anyone that loves the books have little to complain about--not every day you get something you've read and love get picked up by HBO. I'm enjoying the ride. The moments that shocked me in the books--I love how they play out on screen. On another note--yes to Mark Strong for Stannis. As for Brienne--now THERE'S a casting challenge...a taller, more british Calamity Jane would work...I wonder how they're going to handle that one...

  • June 14, 2011, 3:38 p.m. CST

    read the books

    by Anino

    They enhance the show, and vice versa. That's all there is to it. Both allow you to enjoy the story in different ways, yet the combination of both multiplies the appreciation of exponentially. With the books, you get depth and detail, you get get the complex workings of hundreds of interacting characters--like a chess board, but instead of just black and white pieces there are gold, silver, crimson and green pieces, that can change alliances. With the show, you get the visual, the colors, you get the Shakespearian performances. If you only watch the show, you miss the detailed exposition and interplay of dozens of characters that won't make it to the screen. If you only read the books, you miss out on the great performances--though, the books are a deeper, more superior experience.

  • June 14, 2011, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Milch got bored and walked away from Deadwood?

    by Fico

    Umm no. HBO cancelled the show because it was too expensive. Then they tried to placate the fans by pretending to work out some some movies to wrap up the story. Eventually when the buzz for that died down it was quietly torpedoed. Kind of brilliant, really.

  • June 14, 2011, 4:03 p.m. CST


    by skycrapper

    I get what you're saying. I really do (even though all the banter). But here's the deal, having followed this show from the moment the rights were optioned to HBO, we've heard your "arguements" before. You're not really saying anything revolutionary, you're just beating us over the head with it.

  • June 14, 2011, 4:07 p.m. CST


    by Therawbeats

    The best thing about the books that apparently the show feels content not to include is the backstory. I think anytime they mention Rhaegar Targarian it's incredibly interesting...and he's is not even alive when this story takes place!

  • Go ahead and guess which one...

  • June 14, 2011, 5:47 p.m. CST

    Sean Bean stabbed in the arm at a bar last night.

    by SID 8.0

    Oh Sean. Be careful out there.

  • June 14, 2011, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Rome movie moving forward

    by Extr3m1st

  • June 14, 2011, 7:47 p.m. CST

    John Noble = Balon Greyjoy

    by Turingtestee

  • June 14, 2011, 8:32 p.m. CST

    HBO needs to sell a t-shirt that says ....

    by Itchy

    "Winter Came .... All Over Your Face" Because it did. Bitches.

  • June 14, 2011, 9:04 p.m. CST

    John Noble = Balon Greyjoy

    by Anirban

    Great Choice. I have no clue who they will cast for Stannis. Such a presence in the books and hopefully in the show.

  • June 14, 2011, 10 p.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    I know, I've heard the thing about Milch getting bored and walking away before and found it hilarious. If I wanted to be an arse I could ask for sources on this but that just leads to more emotional outbursts. What happens, and we've all seen this before, is fandom becomes so emotionally invested in a project that it precludes them from looking at past history and grounded themselves for possible bad news. There's so much shit on TV when something interesting comes along, aka GoT, the thought is that it is above being extinguished prematurely. It's interesting that we keep hearing how the salaries of the people on the Sopranos somehow killed every other show, or it was head writers just mysteriously walking away etc. That's a lot of spin from HBO, who again have nuked better shows than this. Ah well, it's like when your buddy comes back from a strip club talking about how the girl he met there is different, she's not like the other ones. I suppose sometimes it's easier just to agree or say nothing instead of trying to save them from themselves.

  • June 14, 2011, 10:09 p.m. CST

    Gonna have to agree with Frank on this

    by Cartagia

    A lot of the HBO cancellations are looked back upon with some rose colored glasses. This show canNOT be cheap to produce, and that scares the hell out of me for the future. That said, he is still a delusional, repetitive prick. Also, that Rome movie "news" is over a year old.

  • June 14, 2011, 10:34 p.m. CST

    In regards to the fans reaction...

    by Frank Dills

    Here's one of a thousand now spilling out, yeah I sure got this wrong eh? When I said early on that events would happen that viewers, not book readers but VIEWERS, would leave the show over I was completely wrong right? You can also go to EW weekly or various other places to see the general freak out that's happening. Now don't take me to task for this, I don't have a problem with Ned dying, but that's me. Mark my words, the fatal flaw of translating this to television is that HBO thought an audience would fall in love with this the same way they did True Blood. This is a whole different animal. Non traditional narrative, no protagonist, no sexy vampires. Ned was a lot of people's favorite character, now he's gone. And not Stannis or anyone else is going to replace that.

  • June 14, 2011, 11:14 p.m. CST

    They Killed my NINJA NED!!!

    by Jawsh Murdock

    Down with the Blonde Man! LOL! Tell them Larry: See Joffery get slapped for 10 minutes:

  • June 14, 2011, 11:25 p.m. CST


    by cocolopez

    No one has to supply you with sources. It's more fun to those who actually know more than you do about why Deadwood and Carnivale ended to hear you continue prattling on like a fool. Fact of the matter is- if you really cared that you may be wrong about something- you'd google the shit yourself. You just like to hear yourself talk though pretty much. FACT. Milch started work on John From Cincinnati before Deadwood was wrapped up. FACT. Milch started publicly blasting the show's lead Ian McShane. FACT. Milch was then offered a six episode season- which he turned down. He was then offered a two movie deal- which he pretended to go along with- yet everytime questioned he'd either say that he hasn't finished writing them yet or hasn't even started. This tired game of his went on until it became way too apparent that his mind was elsewhere. These weren't the ONLY reasons the show is gone- but if you don't think that those reasons are key then you're a bigger fool than you already read. As for Carnivale- FACT. Before the verdict was out on a third season of Carnivale- Knauf was pitching a show to HBO's competitor Showtime. FACT. HBO asked Knauf to trim the budget for a third season. Knauf wasn't into doing that. FACT. HBO offered Knauf- like Milch- a way to end his story in a condensed way- with a pair of movies. Knauf turned them down. like above- these weren't the ONLY reasons the show is gone- but if you don't think that those reasons are key then you're a bigger fool than you already read. You want my sources? Go look for them yourself you lazy fuck. Or don't- and keep sounding foolish. Nothing funnier than an idiot trying to sound learned.

  • June 14, 2011, 11:31 p.m. CST

    While I found the overreaction amusing ...

    by NotARegular

    including that charming fellow in the youtube video, I never took the outrage to mean anything but GREAT things for the future of the show. EW posters raised a similar amount of ire by animal activists when they killed off Lady early on in the series and claimed the were done with the show and yet *gasp* the ratings only continued to rise. Half if not more of the uproar over this an immediate, gut reaction to a sad event but it's also just a lot of talk. Trust me. Most of those people will be back, including this youtube guy, and those that genuinely left will be replaced by new fans. Also, the publicity this last episode has gotten has been incredible. While you guys are acknowledging all the people claiming to walk out on the show (and again, most won't), you're also ignoring the people that decided they gotta buy the books now or have realized that maybe it's time to check out the show everyone else is buzzing about. We only have to wait a week to see what pans out ratings-wise but I'm already secure in the fact that this show is here to stay at this point. Just check out all the real-time comments on the show via Google, people are addicted.

  • June 14, 2011, 11:38 p.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    You get so emotional about these things my friend. When these points you are making were brought up many weeks ago, I did in fact try to look up any reliable sources for this info, never found it. Are there rumors? Of course, most started by HBO. Have you ever read Milch's thoughts on all this? He was basically given the option to keep going with the budget greatly reduced, sound familiar? He even tried to get private financing. HBO pulled the plug then told him they were going to give him some police show to do. Then that mysteriously never got green light. Ask yourself this, I'm taking the side of the creators on the series we have been talking about. You are taking the press releases and rumors floated by HBO as truth. You keep defending the corporation, I will keep defending the artist.

  • June 15, 2011, 12:34 a.m. CST


    by cocolopez

    Milch is a genius. he's also damn near out of his mind and quite hard to work with. Everything I've listed as fact actually is- but you can run to wikipedia for only some of the corroborating facts if you wish. Wikipedia- where imbeciles run to get their cliff notes on GOT and where everything is so in depth and gospel. Believe what you will Frank- you're predisposed to believe what you will anyway. You do realize that practically everything you say about everything is utter nonsense, no? From your complaining about tents (hmmm... where else would a camped out battalion be then in... tents...) to your feelings on how thousands of CGI warriors in action would enhance the show's realism (the ONLY parts that really pulled me out of LOTR to be honest Frank- were the thousands of CGI soldiers that didn't group or move like real people- and tend to look like a video game) to your swearing that this show will get cancelled soon and that everyone will stop watching because of the death of Ned Stark- EVERYTHING you say is complete nonsense. and you'd be a shit writer. You make no sense Frank. A good writer makes sense. You're so happy though to get response here though, aren't you? I'm just as guilty- I'm feeding the troll- and it makes you feel so good- a glorified troll here on the site run by the worst movie reviewer in history. Kudos. Life must be grand. They'll sing your songs, remember your words- and you'll be none the wiser or more liked. I am enamored by this show- and it is such shit to come here and see your pathetic attention whoring week in and week out. The GOT threads have become the FRANKSIMMS threads- just as you like- with everyone pointing out the numerous ways in which you're foolish- and you banter on so happy with your wildly exaggerated internet celebrity. You tell your friends how you're driving all the GOT lovers nuts on this most popular site of the as well exaggerated celebrity of moronic Harry Knowles- and you pat yourself on the back- week in and week out. Shame that there's only one more episode this season and you'll have to go back to your normal mundane existence of being stupid in front of a much smaller audience.

  • June 15, 2011, 12:53 a.m. CST

    and as for

    by cocolopez

    defending the artists- which you so nobly do- frank... you dear fool. poor, poor fool. anyone with a smidgen of sense knows that an artist in this medium is only as free as a channel lets him/her be. do you think carnivale or deadwood would have appeared on any other channel? HBO is the only channel with the balls, passion, cash, and business model to approve such shows. Knauf and Milch are both monumental artists- and they're both a bit naive and possess a child's greed with wanting everything and more. They gave these guys the chances that no other channel would be willing to give them- but they wanted everything their way- Milch careening way over budget- neither agreeing to shortened seasons or budgets. HBO slapped Milch's hand with LAST OF THE NINTH- to be sure- and then after teaching him his lesson ok'ed LUCK. He never would have gotten another chance from another channel after the weirdness of JFC- you don't see channels running to try to sign up Lynch for another TV show after Twin Peaks do you? Fuck- the brilliant Mulholland Dr. started off as an abandoned TV pilot. Regular channels give up on genius very early in the game Frank- or ruin it- like when they practically forced Lynch to give away the killer's identity when he didn't want to. Milch lost his Deadwood boner and got obsessed with his bizarre show about an alien/jesus like surfer and the otherworldly profanity-laden ponderings of a fucked up beach family. I loved JFC- don't get me wrong- but the guy is clearly as crazy as he is brilliant. You- on the other hand- are neither crazy or brilliant- just an attention whoring jackass.

  • June 15, 2011, 12:57 a.m. CST


    by cocolopez

    Let the Frank Simms thread resume. Same Channel- same place- it's all about the Simms and his repetitive, nonsensical opinions. Even if you don't bite- he'll keep on until someone does. He'll make sure of it.

  • June 15, 2011, 2:14 a.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    Well where do I begin Coco? In one fell swoop you have identified Harry Knowles as "worst movie reviewer in history," Milch as "possessing a child's greed," Knauf as being "naive," and yours truly as an "attention whoring jackass." So you, YOU, are so profound, so genius, so incredibly qualified YOU have decided it's time to tell it like it is and insult, smear, and rant against at least 3 people who have distinguished themselves in ways you never will. Out of all of them, nice slight on Harry. Why in the world Harry puts up with idiots like you who come to HIS website daily to bitch and moan about everything including himself is beyond me. You talk about how great shows don't have a chance on regular TV, look at the irony in your statement. Where else would a complete BORE like yourself have to express himself and rant, over three consecutive posts no less, than here? Nothing gets my goat more than the ungrateful fucks like yourself who come to AiCN everyday and then insult Harry endlessly. To top that off, you then dig in and make a defense of...HBO. You buy the horseshit reasons they have given through the years for pulling the plug on different shows hook, line, and sinker. Just like a common rube being fleeced on the midway, you tell myself and everyone how these greedy artists wanted enough money to make their series on something other than a shoe string budget. Tell me CoCo, exactly how much did they want? Oh that's right, you have no idea. You weren't there and don't even know what the numbers were, so of course you default to trust the corporation to tell you the truth. How could someone who comes to this site be such a blatant corporate shill? Oh that's right, you hate Harry also. He's the worst, I'm the worst, the artists and creators of these shows are greedy childlike entities, and only you, YOU understand the big picture. You know, considering you insult Harry, Milch, and Knauf it doesn’t offend me in the least to be on your list of “bad,” people. It’s pretty good company to be in.

  • June 15, 2011, 2:16 a.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    I would agree with you. If I listed Ned as the fav, obviously it's not mine but from our friend on YouTube to many, many others who have sounded off on the EW site and several others, it was all about Ned. I hope your right about people sticking with it, I know I will. You have much more faith in humanity than myself.

  • June 15, 2011, 2:31 a.m. CST


    by Extr3m1st

    Sure some people are upset, but trust me when I tell you a few hundred people on any message board do not affect the ratings of any show. It has been proven time after time. I would bet any amount of money the season finale has the best ratings yet (or at the very least the same as this past weekend) even with the crap load of competition next week that it is facing.

  • June 15, 2011, 2:34 a.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    If you are making the point that I'm taking a contained reaction and possibly exaggerating it to all of the viewership, I would concede that to you. That's a fair point.

  • June 15, 2011, 3:07 a.m. CST


    by Happyfat73

    I think the negative reactions we're seeing because of Ned's death are knee-jerk, comments made while the pain is still fresh.</p> </p> I wonder if it's like those people who get hurt by someone they love, and then build walls around themselves so they won't get hurt again. You know... they'll try and distance themselves from the show, not wanting to be hurt again... but they'll be back - the pain they feel now is simply evidence of how much they are engaged with the drama.

  • June 15, 2011, 3:54 a.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    You make a solid point. I think it comes down to people watching a show for an actor, or for the story. The question is, how many people were watching because of Sean Bean, and how many of those will continue because the story is compelling enough to bring them back. I sincerly hope you are correct.

  • June 15, 2011, 4:17 a.m. CST

    About Deadwood and Carnivale

    by theGoldbergV

    I think the truth about the cancellation of both shows is somewhere in between the 2 schools of thought on here. Milch didn't exactly "blast" McShane, he just said he wasn't his first choice for the role. Now maybe there's another soundbite where he outright calls him out, but thats the only one I ever read. As for the movies well I never thought they'd happen. As said above, Milch was checked out and working on JFC (which I love btw) and all the cast had moved on. I'm gutted Deadwood didn't get a proper finish although the s3 finale has a sense of closure (despite coming off as majorly anti-climatic for a series finale). Carnivale was never going to get its full 6 seasons after the ratings came in for season 1. There was an upturn in ratings throughout season 2 but not enough to keep it going. Plus it was majorly expensive. Not sure about the internal politics regarding Knauf, but again its a shame we never saw the proposed 3rd season. Apparently was going to start with Jonesey pitching in the World Series....which would have been awesome. As gutting as these cancellations were, there's no reason to suggest history will repeat itself. Nowadays HBO programmes are sold around the world immediately, they have an international audience, have struck up a big-money deal with Sky in the UK to almost simulcast their programming, not to mention the DVD and Blu-ray sales which I'm sure will be huge. HBO will be seeing major returns on their investment before season 2 goes into production. In short then, as long as people keep watching I see no reason why they would cancel it. As for viewers leaving in their droves when the Bean got killed...have you ever seen him in anything where he DOESN'T get killed?! I'm struggling to recall anything other than Silent Hill...

  • From the beautifully staged opening scene right to the final heartbreaking moments, it was just wonderfully shot and performed.</p> In the scene where Lord Commander Mormont gives Jon Snow his family sword, I had a vision of the future, a scene where Jon and Jorah finally come face to face with that sword between them. The possibilities are delicious.

  • June 15, 2011, 6:46 a.m. CST

    re: Idiotic talk of early cancellation

    by VegasRonReturns

    Let's not forget the built-in audience this show comes with.<p> I have about a half dozen friends/gaming buddies who'd never heard of the books and now absolutely love the show after I turned them on to it. Most are going to start reading the series after next week; I've already got book one out on loan.<p> And while they were all absolutely shocked and pissed off about Ned's death, none of them are leaving the show and we're all actually going to get together for the S1 finale.<p> I concluded weeks ago that FS is either the most self-delusional narcissist I've ever had the displeasure of reading, or one of the better trolls I've encountered online. His points and assertions, are for the most part, so out-of-sync with conventional thinking as to be too absurd to be honest opinion.

  • June 15, 2011, 7:15 a.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    So all the documented reactions on line of people saying they are done with the show, check entertainment weekly for example, or the you tube clip I provided, or a plethora of other places people are going nuts about this, they don't really exist? I'm actually behind all of it right. It's actually me with thousands of user names perpetuating all these opinions just to make the point that the general public is stupid and can’t deal with losing a major character ins a series. Now, what’s crazier….. On one hand you have Frank Simms saying here’s three shows from HBO that were all canceled early. Don’t trust the entertainment industry to ever make the right decision. And finally that the masses don’t know good entertainment and will abandon a good show, which GoT is, for something else far less worthy of their attention due to a more traditional structure. There’s one side of the argument. On the other side you have a guy saying that him and his “gaming” friends love the show therefore it won’t be cancelled. Think about that for a second. Also, I have been civil to you, enjoyed our debates, and have before acknowledged you make some nice points. What about dropping the name calling and insults? It does nothing to forward your point and devalues most if not everything you say. I don’t sit here trying to play psychologist and analyze what your motivation is and why you are saying what you do, I only ask for the same respect. It seems like every week things become civil and then next week here we go again throwing around words like “troll.” When is the last time you saw a troll defend Harry endlessly, engage in high level debate, and also concede points to others when there logic is strong? Sadly the use of the word “troll” has now been devalued so much it basically is synonymous to anyone that doesn’t agree with you. Save it for the spoiler dicks and blatant arseholes that post here. Using it on people just because they don’t agree with you shows a serious lack of confidence in your point. If what you’re saying makes so much sense, you shouldn’t have to call anyone names.

  • June 15, 2011, 7:41 a.m. CST


    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    For all the "thousands" of people claiming to be done with the show, I've seen twice/three times as many go on about what an epic moment this was. These are non-readers who are now addicted because they've never seen anything like this before. They are rushing to buy/read the books and are spreading the word about this show. I've even seen many sportswriters talking up this show. This show is transcending beyond a specific genre and reaching out to the masses. So if a few middle-aged housewives don't like a character dying and do actually stop watching, so be it. That number is going to be hugely off-set due to the massive buzz that this last episode created. We may be watching a revolution in TV taking place.

  • June 15, 2011, 8:23 a.m. CST

    Franksimms I know you like being the wet blanket and all

    by skycrapper

    but this discussion is becoming VERY tiresome and rather boring. Here's a fact, you are not an HBO executive (however if you are then we as fans of this show are all fucked anyways). You don't know what goes on up there as much as anyone else that is just speculating. You're just going on past history, so until it's anounced that this is getting season 3 or it's getting canned nothing you say is right or wrong. I like discussing the show that's , so lets get back to it.

  • June 15, 2011, 8:24 a.m. CST


    by skycrapper

    the show that's on and season 2,

  • June 15, 2011, 8:29 a.m. CST


    by Collin

    I've yet to comment in these GOT talkbacks for one of the very reasons that Mattman stated earlier and that's that they end up turning into a fucking bitchfest, or honest "discourse" as you may want, between you and the show lovers. I happen to agree with you that people tend to only see what they want to see when it comes to their fanboy properties. Take The Walking Dead for example. I've read every issue of the comic since it came out and happened to think the first episode of the show was wonderfully executed. From there though it seemed to deteriorate into a number of horror cliches and poor stereotypes. It didn't ruin the show on the whole for me and I have faith in the coming season but when I expressed some doubts about the direction the first season was going, I tended to get shut down. I have to say that's where our agreement comes to an end old buddy. While I quickly realized that posting my critical thoughts only served to get people riled up without any constructive back and forth between us, you it seems have no such filter. I happen to think this show is head and shoulders above most others airing today and apart from some minor quibbles (some of which MIGHT even be similar in form to yours) I don't get the impression that you're hear to compliment "60-70%" of the show but to complain about 40-30%. Some of your complaints seem to be nothing more than speculation with little to no relation to objective opinion while others serve little more than to get people riled up. If you say they're all well informed and not speculative, fine, I wouldn't begrudge you those but why keep stating them over and over again to the same people only to be followed by the same bickering and hijacking of these talkbacks? I really can see no other reason to continue on about your ill feelings for those parts of the show you deem unsatisfactory other than to bait people into an argument. You've said your peace, we all know how you feel about the show. Let's just drop it so we can move on. I don't even mean to say that people shouldn't be allowed to express issue with the show it's just that at this point that will never be what happens between "you" and the rest of the TB'ers, so let it go, please.....

  • June 15, 2011, 8:31 a.m. CST

    Well said Sky, you just beat me to it

    by Collin

  • June 15, 2011, 8:39 a.m. CST

    Now this is great!

    by skycrapper gotta love Andy Richter

  • June 15, 2011, 8:45 a.m. CST

    I never really considered Ned as the main character

    by theGoldbergV

    sure Sean Bean is the most high profile actor on the show, but its not like every episode was about him. Its an ensemble piece, I'd be very suprised if the fan reaction is anything like Frank is saying it'll be. People will be gutted. Good, a character death SHOULD sting. ***WIRE SPOILERS DON'T READ IF YOU...ER...DON'T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE WIRE...OBVIOUSLY*** D'Angelo is arguably the main character in the early seasons of The Wire (ignoring McNulty). They kill him off in perhaps an even more shocking way, and yeah it stings, but I've never met a Wire fan who stopped watching at that point. Or even when Stringer got his. Or Bodie. The fact there's a vocal backlash is good. It means people responded to the character and are hurt by the fact that he's dead. I'd be amazed if even a quarter of the outraged minority don't find themselves tuning in next week to see the aftermath.

  • June 15, 2011, 9:31 a.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    Well first let me compliment you on a well thought out, well written post. Let me address the things we don’t agree on…. “my critical thoughts only served to get people riled up without any constructive back and forth between us, you it seems have no such filter.” I can’t control people’s reaction to my thoughts, but I refuse not to have a voice. I don’t go out of my way to attack people, I don’t tell people because they like something and I don’t that they are stupid, and for the most part I stay very civil in these discussions unless I am attacked. The talkbacks here have always been and always will be a free forum of expression. I would hate to see every thread neutered so that only positive responses were tolerated. There’s plenty of gusher websites for people looking to only see the positive in things. Also, if you have read my posts, I have concede points, I have changed my opinion due to some excellent thoughts by people, and in turn I think I have brought some people closer to my way of thinking on different issues. I see this as healthy discussion. There is absolutely no excuse for someone who disagrees with me to call me names and act like a 5 year old, nor is that a reason for me to self censor because others can’t help themselves from having emotional episodes. “I happen to think this show is head and shoulders above most others airing today and apart from some minor quibbles (some of which MIGHT even be similar in form to yours) I don't get the impression that you're hear to compliment "60-70%" of the show but to complain about 40-30%. “ Again, this is a game of give and take. Have you ever seen anyone say to me…”Frank, you said the scene between the Queen and Ned was one of the best in the whole series so far, why is that?” or perhaps “Your reviews of the show have gotten much better the last few weeks, what do you think has improved?” if anyone were to respond that way, I would talk endlessly on what the show does do correctly. A lot of the show is great! How many times do I have to say it. Are you seriously suggesting that I should mute my thoughts so that I only express the positive? Again, this goes back to you putting the wrong guy on trial. Wouldn’t it be just as easy to say that people who attack someone, and quite vehemently I might add, for giving a balanced opinion of an artistic expression are the people that deserve far more attention and scolding than me? I’m surprised you quit posting in a talkback because it angered others. I am familiar with the walking dead and reading your thoughts, I would agree. I’m saddened you felt your opinion wasn’t worth hearing just because some rude people got upset. This goes back to why I originally started doing these reviews. The entire hope was to establish a give and take between people with different ideas, that’s how it used to be here many years ago. People could express different opinions and discuss them like adults. No one 100% loved or hated anything. There’s no reason we can’t see that trend be resurrected, but it’s not going to happen when people cower away from a few rude individuals who act like babies. “Some of your complaints seem to be nothing more than speculation,” You are 100% correct. As a huge Deadwood fan I have been through this before and I have never forgiven HBO. They lied to us, made Milch look like an ass, etc. I will never trust them again. That being said, you make a good point. People’s reaction to the show’s eventual cancellation does seem to draw an enormous amount of discontent so….I will drop it. In fact, I won’t bring it up again unless something official comes out. You make a good point here, and I concur. Now, if I’m not wrong Season 2 of the Walking Dead starts soon correct, or perhaps already has? Why not make your return to those TBs and express yourself. If other people don’t like it, that’s fine. But don’t let people bully you away from discussion just because they don’t agree with you. There is no difference between you or I showing up in a thread every week to express our opinions if they are negative versus someone showing up every week to gush over something. If there shouldn’t be one, there shouldn’t be another. That’s undebateable sir. You can’t argue to kill one side of an argument on the grounds of repetiveness without equally lobbying to extinguishing the other. Selective enforcement of censor is not cool or productive.

  • June 15, 2011, 9:34 a.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    "Here's a fact, you are not an HBO executive (however if you are then we as fans of this show are all fucked anyways)." Now that's funny, and that's why i love you. Excellent post.

  • June 15, 2011, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Nice awards info...

    by kells

    This just in... "Potentially lost in all the buzz and conversation yesterday about the latest episode of Game of Thrones was the announcing of the nominees for this year’s Television Critics’ Association awards. Game of Thrones was tied for the most nominations with four (Justified and Parks and Recreation also received four noms). Thrones was nominated for best drama, best new program, best performance (Peter Dinklage) and program of the year. The full list of nominees can be found at the TCA’s official site. The winners will be announced in an unaired ceremony on August 6th. Winter Is Coming: Nice to see the award nominations racking up. Thrones is something of a critical darling at this point, so it’s not too surprising to see it score some nominations amongst TV critics. There is some tough competition, but hopefully they can even manage to win a statue or two. Congrats to the cast and crew, Dinklage especially. And good luck!"

  • June 15, 2011, 10:06 a.m. CST

    Frank, your best quote...

    by Therawbeats

    like a common rube getting fleeced on the midway...

  • National Treasure, although since he doesn't come back for the sequel, he might as well have been killed in the first one.

  • June 15, 2011, 10:31 a.m. CST

    What's with quotation marks not showing up?

    by jim

  • it doesn't mean they will stop watching. They are in the second stage of grief, anger, and working through that. Possibly it is part of the third stage as well: bargaining. "If we all say we will stop watching, maybe they will bring Bean back". Depression for them is not far off. However, hopefully, acceptance will come by Sunday evening and they will be tuning in for the final episode.

  • June 15, 2011, 11:51 a.m. CST

    Best thing on and off TV

    by Knuckleface

    Can't believe GOT doesn't have a stronger presence on this site. What the hell? HBO not paying you guys enough?

  • ...I disagree. He was dead the moment he said Yes and left Winterfell.

  • June 15, 2011, 1:48 p.m. CST

    Ned was dead...

    by Frank Dills

    The moment he unveiled his knowledge of her incestuous relationship with Jamie to the evil queen. Out of all the dumb ass things to do, nothing could have topped that. Now I haven't read the book in like 15 years, but didn't it go down different? I thought his daughter Sansa was the one who told her. I could be wrong. If they did change this for the show, I would love to know why. When you think about Ned's actions, especially in the tv version, none of it really makes any sense. He followed the exact same path as the previous hand. Then, after being warned by a plethora of people not to be fucking stupid, he of course does the single stupidest thing he could and reveal all of it to...not Robert, not Stannis, not anyone who be advantageous, but instead the one person who would have the most to lose by it being reveled. That makes about as much sense as walking up to a neighbor and saying..."I know you're a serial killer, I have absolute proof, and tomorrow I'm going to call the police on you." Jeez, I wonder what would happen. Ned being a guy who saw King's rise and fall, who has been privy to high level political shit for some time, and who has ruled himself having no idea that was a bad idea is completely illogical. Again, him telling Sansa and her selling him out would have been fine, and it was set up perfectly for this to happen. Ned calling a meeting with the queen and telling her his plans was just ludicrous. It makes zero sense.

  • June 15, 2011, 2 p.m. CST

    You're wrong, again

    by VegasRonReturns

    Ned wasn't dead the moment he disclosed he knew the truth about the little Lions's true parentage. Cersei not only didn't blink and eye, she gave Ned two seperate chances to turn a blind eye to those facts and not suffer for it.<p> Ned also thought he had the City Watch to back him up, so him doing the right thing kinda made sense. But not only the that, the tragic flaw of Ned was that he couldn't do anything else except the right thing. That's basically the whole point of his character.<p> Another thing, the Lannisters didn't actually kill Robert, so Ned supposedly knowing better than to cross the Lannisters wasn't quite as how you're painting it.<p> And finally, Sansa's "betrayal" wasn't really a malicious one and for her to leak something her father would never tell her falls under my previous assertion about you spouting shit that makes no goddamn sense, given the characters. You've obviously never read the books, stop pretending you have.

  • June 15, 2011, 2:32 p.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    Are you really saying Cersei was going to let him go around with full knowledge of Jeofferies true heritage? So you are saying after everything you have seen from her, you would trust her to keep her word and not take Ned out? What evidence have you seen from her character that would make you believe that? What did she say, she was "trained to kill her enemies." Also, we never saw Robert die. In fact Vary's mentioned that Ned effectively killed him. How do we know that Cersei didn't sneak in and finish him off. We don't. That's an assumption on your part and she certainly had motivation to finish him off. I mean are you really serious about thinking that Ned could have been like, "Oh ok, I won't tell anyone.." and she would have been like "Ok that's cool, then I will take a chance of losing everything I have and trust you. Trust you won't tell Robert, after you have told me you would, and risk everything. That goes against everything in her character we have seen. Ned basically forced her to make a move. Now after he did the unthinkable and confessed to being a traitor it would have been fine to release him as nothing he said from then on out would have mattered, but she could never have planned for that. As for Ned not having motivation to fear the Lannisters, the fact that one pushed his kid out a window, the previous hand died going down the same path, and the fact that they make lurv to each other wouldn't make you think they might be a little treacherous?

  • June 15, 2011, 2:44 p.m. CST

    I think you're getting the order of things messed up a bit

    by skycrapper

    Ned went to Cersei before they knew Robert was scewered by the boar. Ned, wanting to seem like the noble "good" guy, gives Cersei the heads up to get the hell out of Dodge before he tells Robert. This is where the Sansa slip up comes into play. Cersei knew something was up before Ned even came to her. Robert dying was Ned's ultimate demise. Robert was his shield, and Ned couldn't bring himself to tell Robert the truth on his deathbed. So in the end Ned's nobility and bad circumstances (weather brought on by the Lancel Lannister wine or not) killed him.

  • Twice (during that meeting, and later with Varys) Ned says he did it to save the children from Robert's wrath. Remember (if I remember it correctly) that meeting took place after Ned quit over Robert's plan to kill Dany and her unborn child. He feared once Robert found out the truth he might very well put them all to death which would undoubtedly start a war with the Lannisters. He was doing the "right" thing, the noble thing. He took the course of action that he saw (thought, hoped) would result in the least amount of bloodshed. As for the previous Hand, we don't know what he did. We knew he too found out, and died for it, but that's it. Ned doesn't know what he did with that information (other than probably not telling the King). Maybe his mistake was sitting on it too long (long enough for someone else to find out he knew). Maybe that's why Ned did what he did. Maybe he figured the only thing more dangerous than being pro-active with the information was being indecisive about it.

  • June 15, 2011, 2:51 p.m. CST

    Frank its about time you go ahead and read book 1

    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    It will clear things up for you and you won't have to worry about it spoiling season 1 of the TV show for you. Then again, you've read wikipedia, so just go ahead and actually read all the books. It will do you some good.

  • June 15, 2011, 3:07 p.m. CST

    Frank, Skyscrapper is correct

    by jim

    Ned wasn't blackmailing Cersei, he was giving her a chance to save herself and her children (and her brother too). Ned was going to tell the King, only he wanted to wait to give her a chance to get her kids back to the safety of Casterly Rock. You are right in saying that Cersei is duplicitous and would have done what she could to stop him, but, in the end, didn't have to. However, thanks to the untimely death of Jon Arryn, Ned's guard was up. It made it more difficult for her to dispatch him as she'd done the previous Hand. He knew he had to watch out - one of the reasons he had those guards around him wherever he went (that, and Jamie trying to kill him a few days earlier). Legally, the Queen had little power over him (at the time). He was, while the King was away, the de facto ruler. It was Ned, not Cersei, sitting on the Iron Throne while Robert was out boaring.

  • June 15, 2011, 3:08 p.m. CST

    big jim

    by Frank Dills

    Wouldn't the path of the least amount of bloodshed been to say nothing then? What would be the point of even bringing it up. I get what you are saying about this giving her a chance to get the kid's out, but if he was willing to declare himself a traitor to save his own children, was willing to quit being the hand over saving another child, then why wouldn't it make sense to not say anything about her kid and protect everyone? In a best case scenario from Ned's POV she would have left and then he would have told Robert. This would have lead to Robert most likely declaring war on the Lannisters and caused a ton of bloodshed, children included. If protecting the children was his motivation his actions were in complete contrast. I guess a fair point would be that Ned was so concerned with the line of succession that he felt it would be dishonorable to leave a false son in place, but that feels like a stretch.

  • June 15, 2011, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Re: The Previous Hand

    by skycrapper

    There's a lot more to that story that is revealed later in the books (end of A Storm of Swords). It is revealed what happened to him and who did it.

  • June 15, 2011, 3:20 p.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    Cool, I will be interested when we get to that point. I don't know, I'm really torn on his motivation for telling her. You and Jim make good points, as always. I might need to rethink my position on this one. Being the hand of the king seems to be a cool job, but then as we find out more it seems to be like being an apprentice to the Emperor in Star Wars.

  • June 15, 2011, 3:25 p.m. CST


    by skycrapper

    He did have it out for the Lannisters. Suspected of crippling Bran and Killing Jon Aryn so he had motive to tell Cersei that he was on to her dirty little secret. He was just trying to be the "bigger man". And we see what that gets him. If he did what you were suggesting he'd be just like Littlefinger and Varys who also know this secret but choose to do nothing, for now.

  • June 15, 2011, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Cersai wasn't going to kill.... (spoiler...if you care)

    by templesweeper

    ....Ned. Remember? She asked that he be shipped off to the Wall? If he confessed, why should she kill him? It would only bring greater suspicion down on her and Jaime if they did kill Ned and it could be traced back. Anything Ned would say after his confession would just sound like the talk of a traitor who was trying to save face. So I agree with the poster above that Ned was dead the second he agreed to go to King's Landing. It was Joffrey who killed Ned. He didn't know anything about who his real dad was.

  • June 15, 2011, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Cersai wasn't going to kill....

    by templesweeper

    ....Ned. Remember? She asked that he be shipped off to the Wall? If he confessed, why should she kill him? It would only bring greater suspicion down on her and Jaime if they did kill Ned and it could be traced back. Anything Ned would say after his confession would just sound like the talk of a traitor who was trying to save face. So I agree with the poster above that Ned was dead the second he agreed to go to King's Landing. It was Joffrey who killed Ned. He didn't know anything about who his real dad was.

  • could be worse than acting on it. Better to confront your enemy, letting them know you know, and taking precautions, rather than living your life not knowing if they know you know (you know?). Which Cersei is more dangerous? The one who knows what you plan to do with the information, who is backed into a corner yet is given an "out", or the one who learns that Ned has the information, information he hasn't used, and has time to plan and execute his silence? And, possibly, the silence of his whole family, maybe even his entire household. Perhaps it's six of one, half dozen of the other, but Ned is a pro-active guy; he faces problems head-on. Given a choice between doing something and doing nothing, he chose action. As corny or naive, or even inconceivable as it may seem, he thought he was doing the right thing. Joffrey wasn't the King's son and, therefore, should not be part of the line of succession. He fought 2 wars to put Robert on the throne and keep him there. Doubtful he'd be content with a Lannister bastard inheriting it. He's willing to put Stannis, who no one agrees would make a good King, over Renly, on the throne because it is his "right". Lines of succession, even to a friend of a usurper, matter to him. As does "duty" & "honour". However, there may be more to it. He may have been feeling a bit vengeful too. The Lannisters tried to kill his son, Jamie attacked him and killed Jory, they offed Jon Arryn (his surrogate father), and Joffrey was responsible for him having to kill Lady (breaking his daughter's heart). Maybe a part of him wanted to get back at them for all the pain they'd recently caused his family. As for Robert declaring war on the Lannisters, it might have happened. Sure, one can declare war in the heat of the moment (much like murdering one's children, as Ned feared). However, going to war is a different matter. It takes time; time Ned probably felt he could use to talk the King down.

  • June 15, 2011, 3:54 p.m. CST

    something is wrong with these forums

    by templesweeper

    A few of us have had our posts entered a number of times. Weird.

  • June 15, 2011, 4:36 p.m. CST

    Jeus, read the fucking book

    by VegasRonReturns

    "Are you really saying Cersei was going to let him go around with full knowledge of Jeofferies true heritage? So you are saying after everything you have seen from her, you would trust her to keep her word and not take Ned out? What evidence have you seen from her character that would make you believe that? What did she say, she was "trained to kill her enemies." <p> Yes, she was. it was explicitly spelled out in the fucking book, WHICH I JUST FINISHED LESS THAN TWO WEEKS AGO. In fact, twice. Once when they were in the garden and the second time when he actually confronted her in the throne room. Indeed, she already knew she had him dead if he went forward with the knowledge, but gave him one more chance to "bend the knee", obstensibely keeping quiet and avoiding a war. In the throne room she was holding all the aces yet still gave Ned an out that he didn't take. And even after all that, she agreed to let him take the black and join The Wall. That's three pardons she basically gave him. Cersei know Ned was a man of his word and was counting on that to avoid war.<p> "Also, we never saw Robert die. In fact Vary's mentioned that Ned effectively killed him. How do we know that Cersei didn't sneak in and finish him off. We don't. That's an assumption on your part and she certainly had motivation to finish him off." <p> She didn't cuz she didn't have to, he came to the castle already dying. Again, in the book it's a lot more clear than in the show. Maybe if you'd read the fucking thing you'd stop making an ass of yourself with your conjectures that have no merit. "Now after he did the unthinkable and confessed to being a traitor it would have been fine to release him as nothing he said from then on out would have mattered, but she could never have planned for that." Not exactly. He still had the circumstancial proof in the heredity oddities that he could have told anyone that asked. He still had knowledge that others could use to complete he and Jon Arryn's investigation. "As for Ned not having motivation to fear the Lannisters, the fact that one pushed his kid out a window, the previous hand died going down the same path, and the fact that they make lurv to each other wouldn't make you think they might be a little treacherous?" Treacherous, yes, but his troops outnumbered the Lannister troops until he sent most of his men off to chase down the Mountain That Rides. Even then, he thought he'd secured the Gold Cloaks via Littlefinger and wasn't fearing for his life. <p> I told you almost two months ago that your unfamiliarity with the source material is going to haunt you. In fact, I'm starting to wonder if you're even fucking listening to the show, cuz most of what you assert I can counter with stuff we've seen on the screen.

  • June 15, 2011, 6:56 p.m. CST

    If I had a printer and a frame

    by kesoze4

    I have never stated I was brilliant. Others have but I don’t indulge this. The fact that I’m modifying stale terms like “tragedy of the commons” and applying them to the internet shows I have the ability to manipulate cultural capital. That in and of itself is impressive.

  • June 15, 2011, 9:35 p.m. CST

    how did Rob / Jaimie play out in Book?

    by johnnyg korrupt

    In the tv show it played out terribly. I honestly thought i must have pressed chapter skip. Felt like there was 30 mins missing. I honestly don't know how they thought they could skip the entire confrontation. In the book do we hear about the battle and how they captured him?

  • June 16, 2011, 12:11 a.m. CST


    by Frank Dills

    Excellent post, well done. Yeah I had it wrong, you are correct.

  • June 16, 2011, 1:21 a.m. CST

    Just saw the ep... one is safe.

    by Jerry Piper

  • June 16, 2011, 1:22 a.m. CST

    I am bummed out, so now all my hopes are for Dany.

    by Jerry Piper

  • June 16, 2011, 1:57 a.m. CST

    Rob/ Jaime is EXACTLY how it is in the book

    by Cartagia

    Because the battle is told from the perspective of Catelyn, waiting for her son to return.

  • June 16, 2011, 2:11 a.m. CST


    by Collin

    I wholeheartedly agree that a forum that censors criticism is a neutered one that is all but useless. You are also right that a number of people resort to name calling with you and directly avoid rational discourse about the show when faced with your critiques. The reality is, though, that I could never convince every person on here to stop but I have a better chance with one, you. I didn't even mean to ask you to stop voicing your opinions only to refrain from engaging the name callers which only serves to clog up the talkback. I fully understand feeling the need to defend your point of view but it seems just as (well, almost) childish to react to people who bait you with inane insults and further empower them to continue on. Even when responding like an adult to these people it only encourages them. As for your critiques themselves...I still disagree with a fair amount of them. It also seems, as someone stated above, that it's time to pick up the book again because when you cite it as a reference to a scene being wrong, when in fact you are remembering it wrong, it only weakens any stance you are taking. Even if you add a disclaimer about how long it's been. I too feel like Dany could emote a little more, although I'm willing to overlook it as she may be "trying" to come off as in over her head, no matter how misguided that acting choice is and more importantly I want to have her babies ;) The budget issues are for the most part universally cited as a probable and unfortunate issue resulting in some scenes feeling too little, even if no one on here would cede you that point. I'm not even sure the budget is as big a factor as some would believe. After watching all of The Borgias this season, which I can't imagine having a larger budget than GOT, I saw numerous scenes where the director "got it". My problem with the scale of GOT isn't even directed at the battle scenes or camps. It's the more intimate scenes that STILL sometimes fall flat for lack of scale. You want to see budget restraint and scale done right check out a couple episodes of The Borgias and you'll see what I'm talking about. Maybe next season they'll get some Directors who "get it" a little better

  • June 16, 2011, 2:14 a.m. CST


    by Collin

    While you are right that it's from the perspective of Cat there is still much more exposition, explaining the badassery that is Jaime in the capture fight, even if it's told to Cat by someone who was there

  • June 16, 2011, 7:39 a.m. CST

    I could have sworn Theon explained some of what happened

    by skycrapper

    "He cut through 10 men to get to Robb" or something like that.

  • June 16, 2011, 9:37 a.m. CST

    Way to skip my post

    by VegasRonReturns

    Did I make too many salient points for you?

  • June 16, 2011, 9:40 a.m. CST


    by VegasRonReturns

    Pretty much like that, though it wasnt 10, it was more like 5-6, including the two Karstark boys, which leads to shit later.<p> Once again, my one true complaint about the show was the lack of Grey Wind and and any reference to him. He killed a half dozen men. The downplay of the dire wolves is going to come back and haunt this series in S2.

  • June 16, 2011, 9:44 a.m. CST


    by SantiagoAndDunbar

    There is still time for more explanation/exposition on their battle in the next episode, including talk of Grey Wind.

  • June 16, 2011, 1:37 p.m. CST

    Robb/ Jamie

    by lowman

    Well it wasnt exactly like the show. Didnt it say they could see the "Bait" force of a few riders running from Jamie and his men and then the full force of Robb's group descends on them and surrounds them. Plus then the sounds of battle, swords, the wolf and screams.

  • June 16, 2011, 2:51 p.m. CST


    by kesoze4

    I'm quite happy that the dozen or show posts have been purely about the show. The talkbacks turning into a "people talk to Frank and he writes really long, repetitive, vaguely sociopathic posts". Anyone have any idea of when Season Two is supposed to start next year? Same timing?

  • June 16, 2011, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Re: Season 2

    by skycrapper

    Yes same time next year. Here's an interesting article about season 2. Beware it's got spoilers.

  • June 16, 2011, 5:17 p.m. CST


    by theGoldbergV

    I just popped in to post that link. Interesting stuff. If you're a non-reader, it does have mild spoilers talking about who will appear in season 2 but nothing major. I've not read the books and I don't consider myself majorly spoiled having read it. The most interesting part for me is Benioff's quote on adapting the later books - "It's terrifying to think if we ever made it that far how we'd attempt to shoot some of the stuff he's got coming up in future years." This is how my maths works. So book 5 is out this year. And there are 2 more after that. Apparently they've already said that book 3 will be split in 2. That means minimum GOT has to run for 8 seasons. That'll be a big commitment from HBO, but if anyone could do 8 seasons of high-budget fantasy on TV its them. Just have to wait and see... a non-reader though the thought of dragons does worry me a bit. Never seen Dragons done well on film before, IMO that could be more of an audience turn off than Ned getting got I'm undecided on whether to read the books b

  • June 16, 2011, 6:21 p.m. CST

    Ah, Goldberg?

    by kesoze4

    Spoiler warning there much, dbag?

  • June 16, 2011, 8:17 p.m. CST

    yeah, goldberg, wtf

    by VegasRonReturns

    Though I won't call you names =)

  • June 17, 2011, 3:42 a.m. CST

    Really guys? Sorry.

    by theGoldbergV

    I didn't think dragons was that much of a spoiler. I mean we've seen a huge dragon skull, dragon eggs, had talk of dragons all the way through the season, if you've ever read a story before it seems pretty blatent foreshadowing. I haven't read the books so I have no knowledge of when/how/why/how many etc, but it seemed to be a given that they'd make an appearance at some point. People have been writing the title of book 5 in these talkbacks since the beginning. But apologies if I've overstepped the mark. Guess it proves how easy it can be to fall into that trap. And yeah Mattman the dragons in Reign of Fire were actually pretty good. Forgot about them. Shame about the rest of the film though

  • June 17, 2011, 6:45 a.m. CST

    Just don't

    by kesoze4

    No problem, man, but just don't assume people know anything. Most viewers have no idea what the name of the fifth book is. You can infer anything from statues or skulls. Just don't talk about anything, ANYTHING from future books and all will be well. Does anyone else kinda wish that the books didn't exist? Man it's hard to get people to just discuss the show on its own merits without it being a constant comparison with the books or what people know is coming. If this was a standalone, original show such as The Wire these conversations would be so much more interesting. One of the things I loved most about The Shield, The Wire, Lost, Sopranos, etc., was all sitting around trying to guess what's happening next. With GoT that is simply impossible to do without some asshat Dungeon Master wannabe showing up within five minutes and saying "Your first idea will be disproved in Book 2, you're dead on with your second idea, and this shock you feel now is *nothing* compared to what happens halfway through blah blah blah!".

  • June 17, 2011, 7:59 a.m. CST

    It definitely impacts on the discussions

    by theGoldbergV

    what I'd love the showrunners to do would be to offer up some major divergence from the books in the season finale or premiere of season 2, something that tells the fans "ignore the books, this is a different beast altogether". Like LaFayette on True Blood. But more drastic. That way it'd put us all in the same boat. I've just remembered that there is one other plotpoint I've had properly spoiled on these TBs. I really hope its revealed in the finale so I can into season 2 fresh. So as for some pure speculation...what do you think's gonna happen with Dany in the witche's tent. I'm thinking demon baby and a dead Dothraki. But I hope not because Drogo has been awesome and I'd like to see him in it for the long haul.

  • June 17, 2011, 8:17 a.m. CST


    by kesoze4

    I could go either way on diverging from the books. Probably would be mostly against, though, because I have a tough time seeing them able to make the plot any better. If they want to throw in more facetime for certain characters to flesh out their roles, great. But from what I've heard True Blood's plots were pretty light and needed updating anyway. As for Dany's tent, I can't see how they're not going to pull a Pet Semetary with Drogo. Dany sounds like she'll be fine, but clearly the horse is fucked, and baby, no clue. It'd be tough to see a vicious little demon baby fitting into this world -- Dany would have to just kill it. But maybe the baby gets taken... somewhere... and Dany has to shift her upcoming invasion and go find it. Either way I'd put my money on Drogo coming back... wrong.

  • June 17, 2011, 8:38 a.m. CST

    Is the new talkback ready yet? Re: Deviating from the books

    by skycrapper

    I don't think they will do anything major as far as deviating from the books. One, they run the risk of pissing of their base audience. Two, the complexity of this story has too many intertwined threads that can get screwed up. Three, if you read the article they say that the books will always be their "go to bible" for the show. They will do things like they've already done like adding "expanded look" scenes, maybe show things in a different order than they are prensented in the book, and condense/combine some of the secondary characters.

  • June 17, 2011, 8:42 a.m. CST


    by Anirban

    Found it online last night. Will be buying a copy when it comes out. 29 tracks, mostly about 2-3 minutes in length. And it leaves you wanting more. Rarely does a tv show get a movie Composer and an orchestra to deliver a score like this! In my opinion it rivals LOTR's scores.

  • June 17, 2011, 12:27 p.m. CST

    Episode 10 preview

    by NoQuarter

    If you haven't read the books, I would strongly advise against watching the preview of episode 10 that HBO posted today. It has a fairly big spoiler in it.

  • June 17, 2011, 1:24 p.m. CST

    Frank, your memory of how it went in the books is off

    by Bernie Margolis

    This is how it went down: After being injured in the streets by the Lannisters Ned decided it was no longer safe for the girls to be in King's Landing so he decided to break the engagement and made arrangements to send Sansa and Arya back to King's Landing. When he gave Sansa and Arya this news Sansa was pissed because she loved Joffrey and didn't want to break the betrothal. Neither she or Ned thought that Joffrey was a bastard at the time. In fact, during this exchange she said something like, "Joffrey is nothing like that drunken boor of a King!" This is what prompted Ned to realize that Joffrey wasn't actually Robert's son. He didn't communicate his suspicions to the girls, just like he didn't tell them why they were leaving, presumably because he wanted to "shield" them from the situation. Sansa ran to Cersei in a selfish act of desperation because she wanted to marry Joffrey. She had no idea that the Cersei was so at-odds with her father. Her act was selfish and stupid, but not malicious. As for Cersei, she may have been trained to kill her enemies, but she also wasn't completely stupid. She knew that killing Ned would cause serious problems. Her first reaction in the books was to offer herself to Ned in exchange for his silence. This would give her two things to hold over him: His silence would make him an accomplice in the matter and his affair with her would make him a cuckold with respect to King Robert. This would guarantee silence through the threat of mutual destruction. He refused to go there, so she made other arrangements. Sansa's visit facilitated Cersei's preparations because she was able to capture the members of his household before they could leave. If Sansa hadn't given her a heads-up on their departure the girls may very well have gotten away. Ned's chances at that point would have been much better because she would have been unable to coerce a false confession from him and would have been left with no legitimate basis on which to punish him. Remember that at this point he had already sent messages out to the various houses proclaiming Joffrey as a bastard so his imprisonment actually lent credence to those claims. Sansa's capture gave her the leverage she needed to coerce a false confession of treason from Ned. This gave legitimacy to his exile and to Joffrey's ascent. Her intention had never been to kill Ned because she knew that to do so would prompt the North to rise in rebellion (and it did). That was pure idiocy on Joffrey's part. If Ned had "taken the Black" he would effectively have been in exile and removed from the political scene. That scenario would have been far more advantageous to her than the one that Joffrey created.

  • June 17, 2011, 1:29 p.m. CST


    by Bernie Margolis

    I meant to say that he intended to send the girls back TO Winterfell FROM Kings Landing. Sorry about that.

  • June 17, 2011, 1:58 p.m. CST

    I would have loved to see Ned take the black

    by Mattman

    and hang out with Jon Snow at the Wall. :(

  • June 17, 2011, 8:22 p.m. CST


    by VegasRonReturns

    Wow, I actually explained that already. There's a reason he hasn't replied =)