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@’s by Joe Casey & Tom Brennan
On Marvel’s new VENGEANCE!
Matt Adler here. I recently had the opportunity to speak with two of the masterminds behind Marvel’s upcoming VENGEANCE series, writer Joe Casey and editor Tom Brennan. Along with artist Nick Dragotta, they intend to use this series to provide a new look at villainy in the Marvel Universe. I caught up with them to get details on what the series is all about, which new and returning characters will be participating, and how it all fits into the big picture of the Marvel Universe. Away we go!MATT ADLER (MA): To begin, how would you sum up the central premise of VENGEANCE?
JOE CASEY (JC): Funny you should ask that, because I’ve been angling to do a mainstream Marvel book that really had no “central premise” for a change. I think superhero comic books get too caught up in all that literary shit. Do you think Stan and Jack and Steve were sitting around thinking about “central premises” in 1962? Hell, no! They were just thinking up cool shit and putting it out. Well, that’s exactly what we’re doing. Make mine Marvel!MA: How was the idea for the series developed?
JC: Very oddly. It morphed a few times before it got to where it’s at now. Not to mention, a story this big, this sprawling, this epic…it tends to develop even as it’s moving along. There’s a bit in issue #2 that I just wrote that I had no idea would be there. But, in the context of this series, it made perfect sense to go that way. I’ll give you a hint… it involves Bullseye and Lady Bullseye and it’s a love scene. And it ain’t a flashback. Can I get an “Awww, yeah!” up in this hothouse?!
MA: Tom, how did you settle on this creative team?TOM BRENNAN (TB): When you think pure, heartless, soulless, sociopathic evil – you think Joe Casey. Joe has both the ability to write a Marvel story AND tap into the off-beat creepier and darker sides of the Marvel Universe, and that’s what we needed here. Readers today are a very discerning group and stories that “count” matter much more to them. This needed a writer who’d be able to best serve the darker tone of a story celebrating villainy AND make it make sense as part of our larger continuity. Joe has consistently proven himself as a writer who can tell a unique story in the midst of our greater Marvel madness.
On the art side, Nick Dragotta’s star is on the rise. His beautiful FANTASTIC FOUR issue reminded an industry just how powerful these images are – how much they can say. With a concept this wild, we needed someone who could harness these ideas and translate them into the right images. His character designs blow me away. Some of them (the Ultimate Nullifier and Ms. America, for example) are deceptively simple and subversive. He can say so much in a single shot. We’re also traveling across worlds of the Marvel U – and across timelines – and Nick has the kind of style that can adapt.MA: What can you tell us about the new characters that will be introduced (or re-introduced) in this series? Are they all villains, as many have assumed? And is it too early to put names to the teaser images that were released last month?
JC: I hope no one really thinks that Nighthawk or Stacy X or the Son of Satan are villains. That’d be a damn shame. We’ve got a pretty oddball cast, though…and they run the gamut of moral allegiances. Some are villains, some are heroes. Some are revolutionaries, some just wanna tear it all down. Some are cosmic Buddha figures. But we’re kinda hoping that the meager amount of readers who actually pick up this book embrace the new characters like Miss America and Ultimate Nullifier and take them into their hearts. The new members of the revamped Young Masters are pretty cool, too.TB: The great thing about younger characters is that they’re all much more organically “shades of gray.” They behave impulsively and selfishly – Spider-Man’s entire career was unfortunately made on that youthful irresponsibility.
MA: Does the inexperience and perhaps recklessness of young villains make them more dangerous than their older counterparts?JC: I think it’s more than that. These younger characters are looking at the current state of the classic villains of the Marvel Universe and they can’t believe how the mighty have fallen. There’s certainly a parallel of how comic book readers tend to feel about certain developments when it comes to their favorite characters or the real iconic characters. You take a character like the Executioner and consider his mother and how that relationship ended…he’s part of the next wave of Marvel super-villain but he’s also got an understanding of history and what the “big gun” villains mean to him. The fact that someone like Magneto -- the greatest mutant terrorist there is -- is now a good guy is probably a bit disillusioning to any young villain who wants to believe there’ll be a spot at the dinner table for them. But here they are, seeing the current landscape and to them it feels like, as John Lydon would say, No Future. In the case of this book, the Executioner is in a position to do something about it.
MA: How big of a role will the established villains of the Marvel Universe play in this series?JC: They’re there in each and every issue. They play pivotal roles in the overall macro-epic. And, of course, they’re on the covers. But, once you see those covers, and if you’re fairly caught up with the current Marvel continuity, you start to ask questions like, “Hey, Bullseye’s dead. Is Lady Bullseye just as good?” or “Isn’t Dr. Doom the FF’s butler right now? How does the current ruler of Latveria stand up to a legend?” or “Loki is pre-pubescent. Is he even a villain?” All these questions are answered in the book itself. They are very much a part of the big story.
MA: How will this series fit in with “Fear Itself”? And with “Fear Itself” currently at the center of Marvel Universe events, how do you communicate the importance this series has for the Marvel Universe?
JC: Quite easily, actually, by conceding that this series has no importance whatsoever for the Marvel Universe. Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way…now that we don’t have to worry about it…we can concentrate on blowing the minds of the handful of readers we’ll have, most of whom might’ve even picked this up by mistake, thinking it was another issue of the CAPTAIN AMERICA: FIRST VENGEANCE series.TB: This is not particularly connected to “Fear Itself” – we make mention of it, but this is going on under the noses of the Marvel U’s powers that be. In terms of communicating importance – there’s really only so much you can do with the current fan base. As I said before, it’s a very smart, very discerning readership. As much as we maybe could have slapped a “Fear Itself” banner on this book and crossed some T’s and dotted some I’s to make it feel like part of a crossover, the story Joe pitched was so epic and massive. It deserved to be its own beast. We only hope the fans recognize the fun they’re in for and judge it on those merits. I suspect they will.
MA: What's it like working with Nick Dragotta?
JC: Tom Brennan made that particular love connection. Turns out, Dragotta and I are like brothers from different mothers. It’s been an intense meeting of the minds. We’re having a blast pushing the limits of what a superhero “anti-event” can be. We send each other shit that’s inspired us over the years…the most recent example is me sending him a bunch of images from THRILLER, an early-80’s DC book by Robert Loren Fleming and Trevor Von Eeden (a favorite of mine from when I was pre-pubescent). He’d heard of it, but had never really seen it. The “cinematic storyboard” approach to superheroes -- in the actual comics -- needs to be destroyed once and for all. We’ve got movies for that stuff. Comic books are their own artform but most superhero comics, the bigger sellers in the Direct Market, play it way too safe to be all that interesting to me. Over the past ten years, I feel like I’ve seen it all. Dragotta and I want to come up with something that we haven’t seen at Marvel and it’s great to have a co-conspirator in that regard.TB: The easiest thing in the world. Pages show up on time and pretty. I gushed enough before about his additive powers – comics are a team sport in many ways, and a guy like Nick is exactly who you want on your team – someone who works hard, puts the story first and still manages to shine.
MA: This series appears to connect to a number of your past works, Joe, including your X-MEN run and THE LAST DEFENDERS miniseries, as well the works of other writers, such as DARK REIGN: YOUNG AVENGERS, YOUNG ALLIES, and even ACTS OF VENGEANCE. Will familiarity with those comics enhance readers' enjoyment of this series?JC: As many readers that bought the LAST DEFENDERS series -- which I had a blast doing, btw -- there will undoubtedly be even fewer who’ll buy this one. So I don’t know if familiarity with other, specific series is necessary. Familiarity with comics is necessary. This isn’t an outreach book. This is a pure comic book where we’re embracing the unique language of comic books. That might put a few casual readers off… but, let’s face it, we’re not getting any casual readers on this book anyway. But, rather than being bummed out about how horribly a book like this might sell, Dragotta and I are using it as an opportunity to stretch ourselves creatively. We’re not simply fulfilling the genre expectations…we’re actively blowing them up.
TB: Yes! Now go buy some trades! I need this job, it keeps me in dental insurance! It can’t hurt to know the past, but we’ll be filling in the blanks for you on this series, don’t worry. This is a story set in the here-and-now – we’ll get you up to speed as we go.MA: In recent years there have been many miniseries or even short-lived ongoings that have introduced new characters, particularly young heroes, who don't seem to appear much after the series’ conclusion. Is there a larger goal with this series, in terms of expanding the character base of the Marvel Universe and making further use of characters who have already been introduced? And are you talking about plans for these characters beyond this series?
JC: My goal is to do the best book I can in the moment. I’m not thinking of the past or the future or how this book fits into the greater fabric of the Marvel Universe. I’ve done other books in the past that have set up various characters and situations and, for whatever reason, other writers never really picked up on them. Or, in some cases, completely contradicted or actively ignored them. So, in the case of this series, I said to myself, “Fuck it, I’m gonna write the book that I wanna read, using cool characters in their most primal forms along with a bunch of new shit.” I figure it’s my turn to completely ignore some of the weird directions some of these characters -- some of which I created -- have taken in the years since I’ve written them. I mean, it’s only fair, right? Plus, it makes for a better book.MA: Thanks Tom and Joe. Look for VENGEANCE coming soon from Marvel Comics.
Matt Adler is a writer/journalist, currently writing for AICN among other outlets. He’s been reading comics for 20 years, writing about them for 7, and spends way, way, too much time thinking about them, which means he really has no choice but to figure out how to make a living out of them. He welcomes all feedback.
Proofs, co-edits & common sense provided by Sleazy G
