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Quint chimes in with some thoughts on Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides!

Published at: May 21, 2011, 5:38 a.m. CST

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with some thoughts on the new Pirates of the Caribbean flick. I’m exhausted, sitting in a New Orleans hotel after 12 hours of being on an unnamed set, attacked savagely by blood-thirsty mosquitoes and, worse still, Louisiana humidity. However, I did want to put some words down about the big movie of the weekend.

I didn’t walk out of the theater hating Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides like a lot of my colleagues, but I was massively disappointed. Say what you will about Gore Verbinski’s Pirates movies, but this new film has all the same flaws as his sequels (overly-complex, very fatty and long, etc), but little of the spark of life, the charm they carried. And ambition, too. That’s a big problem with this film, which goes from a massive multi-ship firing cannons while swirling down a giant water funnel to Hans Zimmers’ bombastic and adventurous theme as the backdrop to a series of shots featuring Jack Sparrow stepping lightly from one moving carriage to another.

All of that is minor, nitpicky stuff. This is the beginning of a new run of Pirates movies afterall. The real disappointment for me was the flat-out lazy script. When I say lazy, I mean lazy. Characters pop up in totally random locations to save the day, deliver some exposition and then ooooooo, mysteriously disappear. There’s leaps of logic throughout, which I can give some leeway on if they deliver the spectacle, but what I can’t abide are ridiculously stupid leaps of logic.

I don’t want to spoil anything, but there’s a last minute save towards the end of the movie that blows my mind made it to the screen. There’s a character that FOR NO REASON goes a long, long, long way to thankfully be at the right spot to help somebody they barely know and have every reason to hate. And then they go away again.

Don’t get me wrong, I understand this was adapted from a book and I’m sure it made more sense for this character to do what they did within that context, but for fuck’s sake don’t shoe-horn it in here if it doesn’t make any sense.

Not only is the writing lazy, it’s pointless. I don’t mind one-off stories, but do you know what it all builds up to? To get the characters back to where they were at the beginning of the first movie! Really? After battling the Kraken, surviving death itself, Jack Sparrow’s only motive in life is still obtaining the Black Pearl?

I’m a fan of Jack Sparrow as a character. I love the concept of the fool being the smartest one in the room with it ambiguous how much of the persona is a premeditive, strategic act. That character was at his best in the very first movie and at his worst in this one. Not because Depp doesn’t give a shit, but because the writing isn’t there to support him. Depp finds moments to inject that good ol’ Jack Sparrow sardonic humor, especially in the final moments of the movie, but I was very sad to see that for the majority of the movie he was just… there. That’s not a character I want to feel indifferent about.

Penelope Cruz is a fun addition to the world… or would be if the writing supported it. We’re told a lot about her relationship with Jack Sparrow, but we’re shown very little. I also love Ian McShane as Blackbeard, but again the writing lets us down. At least Davy Jones had a real, emotionally complex story tied in with his villainy and felt like a real threat. Blackbeard should have been terrifying, but he’s a bad guy on the run the whole movie, scared of a prophesy. McShane showed up to work, the character writing just wasn’t there.

Geoffrey Rush is Geoffrey Rush, just like Johnny Depp is Jack Sparrow. It’s good to see those two on screen again and playing off each other, but it’s like flat soda without a strong adventure underneath it all.

Sam Claflin and Astrid Berges-Frisbey are fine, but they feel shoe-horned into the plot. Claflin plays a religious man and Berges-Frisbey a mermaid who is “different.” Why is she different? No reason, just because they need her to be. And Claflin is so bland you’ll long for Orlando Bloom and that’s saying something. It’s not the boy’s fault. Marshall didn’t feature him well enough and his character writing was pure vanilla.

The 3-D was fine, but to be honest it didn’t really add much except for the occasional stab-you-in-the-eye stuff that I actually like in a weird gimmicky way. The score felt like 90% of the music used in the first three films recycled. The cinematography lacked a little of the panache of the Verbinski films, even though cinematographer Dariusz Wolski returned to lens the movie.

But all that adds very little to my disappointment. I hang the faults of this movie on the shoulders of Terry Rossio and Ted Elliot, which may be unfair. Believe me, I know how writers are abused in this system and I know how what works on the page still needs to translated successfully, but I have a hard time looking at the finished product and thinking that ever made any sense and wasn’t just the easiest possible, blandest way of telling this story.

On Stranger Tides isn’t a bad movie. It’s not eye-rolling Prince of Persia bad. It’s just bland, small in scope and safe. There’s no edge to this one, no abstract weirdness that gave even the weakest of the previous Pirates movies a little personality. There’s money on the screen, so it’ll be easy for those who just want to revisit some familiar friends to let go of the film’s weaknesses and enjoy the ride, but I think time will show this one gets the least repeat play.

I’m not tolling any bells pronouncing the death of the franchise… I think they have a great world full of high adventure and fantasy the likes of which we haven’t seen since Ray Harryhausen’s heyday. It’s a fascinating world, Depp has an iconic character on his hands and there so much potential to tell really big, fun, crazy stories that audiences eat up. I’d love to see the series keep on chugging, but for the love of God they need a better captain on that ship. I love Chicago, but Rob Marshall proved a bad choice for this franchise.

Die Hard 4 pissed me off. Indy 4 makes me really sad and gets worse every time I rewatch it. Alien 4 is crazy ridiculous and kinda shitty. Pirates 4 is just there. I’ll probably watch it again when it’s on cable or if they make a giant super awesome blu-ray set or something. That indifference is the killer, though, and why I find myself like a sad mother as I think back on this new film and the series as a whole. I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed.

-Quint
quint@aintitcool.com
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Readers Talkback

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  • May 21, 2011, 5:52 a.m. CST

    holy shit im first at last!

    by CARTMANEZ

    yeah!!

  • now they are doing the Indy thing and its still meh it'll still make a shitload of box office though - kids and their moms dont care. just look at Pirates 3 and TF 2 Pirates will always be tainted for me though as the 2nd one helped bury Superman Returns (which mightve made an extra 50-100m ww had it not been released right next to Pirates) - thus meaning no Routh/Singer sequel!!

  • hmmm. i never got all the Indy hate and actually consider it to be the best of the sequels. but then i am a 50s/Sci Fi nut so maybe im blinded Die Soft 4 was a waste of time though as was Alien 4 (made me sick watching that) but i did enjoy Throwinator 4 (but that was mainly down to naughty boy Arnies 'cameo')

  • The bartender looks at him, puzzled, and asks "Sir, do you realize that you have a ship's wheel attached to your crotch?" To which the pirate replies, "Aye! It's drivin me nuts!"

  • that sounds pretty cool - i might have to check it out (on dvd)

  • May 21, 2011, 6:14 a.m. CST

    Pirates 4 sounds like the biggest 'I dont give a shit' movie yet

    by CARTMANEZ

    i think the last one was maybe Lethal Weapon 4

  • (and I am saying this as a big fan of the series that still has some complaints) "Jack Sparrow has gone from a great pirate masquerading as a fool to a fool masquerading as a great pirate." This NAILS it. In the first movie, for all of his idiot bravado, swaggering drunkenness, and seemingly awful decisions, Jack was a genius. Jack was playing EVERYONE in that movie to get to where he wanted to be. It wasn't dumb luck that got him where he was, it was the fact that he was, as stated, a fucking GREAT pirate. In the newer ones, which I still do defend, the biggest issue I have is that nothing is in Jack's control. Half the reason I love the first one is because, as stated, Jack is owning the entire situation in the first one. What they missed is that people don't necessarily like Jack for his comedic bits. They help, but that's not the primary draw factor. As stated, people like him because he's charismatic and he actually does get his shit down. In the new movies, he's gone from masquerading as an idiot to actually BEING an idiot. Which contradicts the first one hugely, and that's a bummer, because Depp's best bit in the first was the duel on the Isla du Muerta where you realize that he's been masterminding the whole story.

  • May 21, 2011, 6:32 a.m. CST

    Got it in one, blagyver

    by FeralAngel

    Thanks for that comment. You're right, that's the trouble with the current version of Sparrow, who's a WONDERFUL, iconic character that I love as much as I ever loved Han Solo or Indy. That's why I hope this current movie, with all of its flaws, makes enough booty to warrant another film. Because then maybe, MAYBE, somebody in Filmland will get a fucking clue and salvage Sparrow with a decent, enlightened script. We can always hope. Oh, and the Muppet trailer running with the film went over like a lead balloon with the crowd I saw Pirates with.

  • May 21, 2011, 6:51 a.m. CST

    "Die Hard 4 pissed me off"

    by Nasty In The Pasty

    For the last fucking time...Die Hard THREE was the lousy one.

  • May 21, 2011, 6:59 a.m. CST

    cartmanez...

    by thecomedian

    It's not Pirates' fault that Superman Returns was a lifeless, pedestrian, misguided piece of shit. "My Super Ex-Girfriend" opened that same summer and sadly had more action and story than Superman Returns did. That's pathetic. It would have bombed regardless.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:06 a.m. CST

    thecomedian - SR was a magical movie

    by CARTMANEZ

    itd have done a load more BO had they released it at christmas (as it felt like more of a christmas movie)

  • May 21, 2011, 7:11 a.m. CST

    Verbinski or bust!!!

    by performingmonkey

    Dead Man's Chest (aka Pirates 2) had a hell of a lot of atmosphere throughout and some great action sequences. Yes, it was overlong, but it's at least 10 times the movie that On Stranger Tides is. Rob Marshall shouldn't have been let anywhere near this series! The suits obviously think 'Depp's in it, it'll work'... That's a pile of horseshit!!! Yes, Depp is essential to the franchise but you also need a great director and some strong supporting cast members that the story focusses on. You CAN'T focus on Jack, even though he's who everyone wants to see. He should always have been played as the Han Solo-type and not the hero.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:14 a.m. CST

    ill say 'Yellowbeard' is a FAR superior film to POTC4

    by LargoJr

    Monster amazing cast, thousands of great lines.. I just wish Hollywood would put it out on fucking blu-ray along with Steven Spielberg's 'Always'

  • man that wouldve been awesome! starring Ford, Peter Mayhew, with cameos from 3PO, R2, Lando, Luke and Leia...PG13 hard action. even better made it a live action version of “Into The Great Unknown,” its amusing how after Pirates 2 and 3 came out certain film reviewers and sites were going 'meh, the series shouldve been like Indy with a standalone adventure with Depp centre stage instead of being like BTTF/SW trilogy' so they 'go Indy' for 4 and it turns out even worse than 2 and 3

  • May 21, 2011, 7:49 a.m. CST

    QUINT: I don't think it makes more sense in the book...

    by Admonisher

    As far as I can tell, the novel and film have the words "Blackbeard," "Fountain of Youth" and "Zombies" in common ... and that's about it.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:56 a.m. CST

    i feel the exact same way abut all those movies.

    by FleshMachine

    indy 4 is an embarassment, die hard 4 was nonsense, alien 4 was just weird, i actually like the 3 pirates movies better than those...i think they actually get better the more you see them.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:56 a.m. CST

    pirates 1-2-3 get better the more you watch them

    by FleshMachine

    i think

  • May 21, 2011, 7:59 a.m. CST

    Honestly...

    by Peter David

    ...I think the mainstream press has created a poisonous atmosphere for this basically entertaining popcorn flick. Even as I watched it with my family, I found myself looking for all the things "wrong" with it as planted in my skull by reading the various high-profile reviews that have been ripping into it. And if you're actually able to set all that aside and go with it and find yourself enjoying an entertaining pirate flick, which is really all my family and I was looking for, you're left wondering, "Why did all these mainstream press reviewers tear into this movie like it was a Troma film produced from a lost Ed Wood script and directed by Uwe Boll?" And my inclination is to say that mainstream critics hate films that underscore just how little influence they have. Keep in mind that the whole purpose of a reviewer's life is to tell people what they should and should not see. If people don't listen to them, that REALLY pisses them off. In the case of "Pirates," they basically know that no matter what they say, this film is going to make a lot of money (not to mention that the people who created the movie will make more money off this one film than the average critic will make in the next decade.) Some reviewers have at least been honest enough to say that their opinion is irrelevant, but it doesn't occur to them that this anger over their irrelevance is serving to shape their opinion. Instead they rail against the stupidity of the American public and the corporate mendacity of Disney--grudgingly acknowledging Disney's skill at getting people stoked while at the same time despising them for it--and trash the film. They complain about Depp even though his performance is perfectly consistent with the previous films. They complain that the plot is too simpler and linear even though they complained about the previous two films were overly complicated. They complain about the mythical elements that they previously extolled as being a refreshing addition to the pirate mythos. And they serve to create a poisonous atmosphere for anyone seeing this film--much less writing a review of it--because you go in looking for what's wrong rather than what's right. And that's a shame. Because it's a fun movie. PAD

  • May 21, 2011, 8:05 a.m. CST

    Tip of the hat to Mr. David

    by BlaGyver

    Well said, man.

  • May 21, 2011, 8:10 a.m. CST

    fleshmachine

    by BlaGyver

    Agreed, especially in regards to At World's End. That's a complicated movie and there's definitely too much going on, but the more you watch it, the more you work the plot out. I had to force myself to do it the first two times after I saw it in theaters but now I dig it. It's just very complicated.

  • May 21, 2011, 8:54 a.m. CST

    Quint - you SURE U not Mad?

    by doom master

    Honestly, after watching this movie the only real thing I find insulting is NOT the story, nor Jack, nor Barbossa's storyline (which you have to admit the gave him a nice arc there rivalling Jack's), nor the zombies, nor the mermaids, nor the love story, nor Angelica having the doll at the end of the movie. What pisses me off is that Blackbeard was so wasted here. And his death was by far the worst Ive ever seen. I would have rather Barbossa did as history noted and cut his head off, to suggest HE was the one who killed him and not the famous Maynard of historical fame. all this movie does is give us the account of his death and Blackbeard says NOTHING about that.... nothing? So did it happen or not? Did hsihead get cut off and he put it back on (due to the voodoo magic)? They totally crapped on Blackbeard. other than that (and the SPanish destroying the party - why? And if so, why not destroy all the mermaids as well?) the movie was entertaining.

  • I recommend you stop watching it then. Put on Temple Of Doom instead.

  • The best you'd get is Pirates I, so what's the use? I do like the Pirates in the Present idea for a new film.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:18 a.m. CST

    Jack is in charge in 3 too

    by doopey

    If you ever re-watch 3, you realize that Jack pretty well masterminded that whole thing as well. He manipulated Will, he manipulated the Pirate Council, he manipulated Beckett. He was pretty much running the show. When Davy Jones kills Will it throws a wrench into everything, but he still figures out how to get ahead. There's even that scene on the sandbar where Will and Elizabeth look at each other and realize that Jack "really does know what he's doing." 2 is different because it's hard for him to stay ahead of Davy Jones, but he's still manipulating Will in that one to accomplish his ends (getting the key and the chest).

  • May 21, 2011, 10:20 a.m. CST

    blagyver

    by doopey

    My last post was in response to blagyver.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:21 a.m. CST

    Online movie fandom really stinks

    by Arteska

    Much worse than this movie. The level of entitlement now is much more annoying than new Hollywood pandering to it. I still give Quint some credit for not going off the deep end though - his review and Harry's are among the most measured non-endorsements around the internet.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:54 a.m. CST

    I am exhausted...

    by bubcus

    so many long reviews and pretty much saying the same thing. I'm committed to seeing this movie as the girl I am going with is really excited about it.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:59 a.m. CST

    Maybe we're all getting too cynical

    by thot

    I remember the days when I would walk in to a film having seen only a trailer or two on the old TV. I think for many people, the simple joy of seeing a big screen spectacular has been robbed of it's pleasure due to overblown expectations, nitpicky fault-finding and jaded perceptions. I'm seeing Pirates tonight. Hoping for a fun time!

  • May 21, 2011, 11:03 a.m. CST

    Peter David is 100% Right, And Jack's "In Charge" In This One, Too

    by SagaciousPenguin

    The movie ain't brilliant. It's got obvious flaws. It's still a genuine fun time. An with a few oddball moments like the save Quint mentions, I enjoyed the simple story quite a bit. <p> And, yes, Jack starts this adventure being shanghaied into it, but by the end he pulls a fast one on most the characters. Which is one of the reasons the final moments of the movie work as well as they do. They're genuinely crowd pleasing because Jack rode the waves and planted an ace-in-the-hole that got him what he wanted. <p> So, yeah, problems. Plently little problems. But far more that's entertaining. And I hope they learn from their mistakes and make an even better fifth entry. If the writers made the mistake of going to "inconsequential" with the story of this one it's only in response to the backlash they received for forgetting they weren't righting a tale of LOTR-scale grandeur with 2 and 3.

  • May 21, 2011, 11:05 a.m. CST

    sagaciouspenguin

    by SagaciousPenguin

    *DESPITE the few oddball moments, I mean

  • It's a great movie

  • May 21, 2011, 11:34 a.m. CST

    "I understand this was adapted from a book.."

    by sonic3305

    Pirates 4 bears almost zero resemblance to the book it was "suggested by." On Stranger Tides did have Blackbeard and the Fountain of Youth, but both are completely different, and the plot and main characters of the novel aren't present in the movie at all. The title is actually the biggest similarity between the two. Which is weird. If they took the book, tweaked it a bit and dropped Jack into the middle of it, we'd have a 100x better movie.

  • May 21, 2011, 11:57 a.m. CST

    "THIS IS THE TAAAAALE OF CAPTAIN JACK SPARROWWWWW..."

    by MrMysteryGuest

    Michael Bolton FTW!

  • Yes, the movie may not be what you want to be, but it is meant to be just fun, and I think that is what it's suppose to be. I do find that this site has changed, because it used to be that if the AICN crew didn't like a film, then everyone else would agree. Not this time, I am seeing some of you breaking ranks and saying you like the film. This is good, because it's sad to see everyone acting like mindless zombies. For the record, I loved Tron Legacy, liked Suker Punch( look forward to the extended cut) and loved Battle Los Angeles.

  • May 21, 2011, 12:06 p.m. CST

    Quint re: the Pearl, all Sparrow cares about is FREEDOM

    by D.Vader

    And he has told us, the audience, that that's what the Black Pearl represents- freedom. It makes sense that all he wants in life is to be free and he sees the Pearl as his true way to get it. That shouldn't be a complaint, that he still wants the Pearl. Its obvious from the movies how much he cares about that ship.

  • May 21, 2011, 12:07 p.m. CST

    ...I liked it a lot?

    by Dharma4

    I thought it was fun and adventurous. What the fuck do all you want? The Mermaids scene was intense, the Fountain of Youth scene was epic, and that English dude getting capped by the Spanish soldier was awesome. I liked it a lot, actually. And Penelope Cruz's cleavage is God.

  • I guess you mean Geoffrey Rush is Hector Barbossa? Or that Johnny Depp is Johnny Depp?

  • May 21, 2011, 12:13 p.m. CST

    I liked Die Hard 4

    by BackwardGalaxy

    Pssh.

  • May 21, 2011, 12:16 p.m. CST

    Doopey, good point about Jack in the sequels

    by D.Vader

    He really does have a handle on everything, but apparently that managed to slip past a lot of the talkbackers here. He's that good at what he does.

  • May 21, 2011, 12:17 p.m. CST

    Actually, Indy 4 gets better for me the more I watch it

    by D.Vader

    Aside from a few points, on the whole its better.

  • May 21, 2011, 12:20 p.m. CST

    Popcorn Movie

    by Todd1700

    POTC 4 is what the last two were. Brain dead popcorn fun. If you found any fun in the last 2 then you will find about as much in this one. Can't understand why all of a sudden this one is graded by a standard that the last 2 weren't. Oh, and Indy 4 was the most disappointing big blockbuster sequel I can think of other than The Phantom Menace. The people who defend that shit pile are just in denial that any Indiana Jones movie could really be that bad. The geeky Star Wars nerds went through the same period of defensive denial as well. Eventually however even they faced the reality of the true shittiness of the prequels. Eventually you Indy 4 defenders will come around to the truth as well.

  • May 21, 2011, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Hey Quint.

    by theKRELL

    " After battling the Kraken, surviving death itself, Jack Sparrow’s only motive in life is still obtaining the Black Pearl?" He, Jack Sparrow (should be a Captain in there somewhere) is a PIRATE, he Needs a ship, would you rather have him working as a Fluffer on a porn shoot? If that be the case though, he'd still be fighting AssMunch Lives and kwisishisbitch to see who could swallow the most 'swords'! Though AML's proclivity for goat scrote (he had JarJar tatooed on his 'favorites' pair) would probably weigh heavily on his psyche. Still the dialogue would be most apropos . . . A Lot of . . . AAAAaaarrrgghhs . . . to be sure!

  • May 21, 2011, 12:51 p.m. CST

    I worked on the movie...

    by abe

    I worked on all these movies and I couldn't be bothered to watch them or even recommend them. It's embarassing to be listed in the credits.

  • May 21, 2011, 12:55 p.m. CST

    Most anticipated that equalled to most rubbish

    by D o o d

    The new star wars prequels Superman Returns Pirates of the caribean (first one was good) Die hard 4 Indy 4 Transformers (all of them) There are many more but I can't be bothered!

  • May 21, 2011, 12:56 p.m. CST

    Pirates

    by macheesmo3

    was okay.... There really was a lot of lazy writing in it tho...(the Cleric is underutilized and undeveloped, Blackbeard isn't menacing enough, the Spanish are forgotten for long stretches). It IS good pirate fun, but IMO, the action set pieces aren't very exciting (aside from the Mermaid stuff) and there wasn't enough ship on ship action!! Anyone notice that for a series of pirate movies, very little actual pirating goes on?

  • May 21, 2011, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Reviews are the last thing I read on this site --

    by MooseMalloy

    -- if I ever read them at all. If I do I only skim them anyway because I want to "go in fresh". If I give any weight to a review it's usually written by Ebert or that LA Times guy, otherwise fuck reviews and fuck critics.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:24 p.m. CST

    Once again, opened foreign before domestic.

    by tailhook

    Get used to it. On Stranger Tides premiered to the world Wednesday. A couple days later the US got sloppy seconds. I've been saying this for a while now and its being proven out. Event films *WILL* open overseas before they open here for the foreseeable future. That way the studios can get ahead of the media outlets and shape the story based on the total money made, and not just the domestic numbers. As such, movies that would normally be seen as a major disappointment (i.e. THOR), are shown to be successful before the first weekend is even over. At the same time, the foreign box office is proving to be *a lot* more potent than the US given the sheer number of territories. Movies can actually open overseas and be pirated here and you'll still make far more money than opening here and having the movie pirated overseas.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Or lets just put it this way.

    by tailhook

    On Stranger Tides as allready made $127 million.. 72.5% of that elsewhere.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Oh yeah, box office results --

    by MooseMalloy

    -- fuck those things too.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Box office...

    by tailhook

    Is important because a lot of the time it determines what gets made and what don't, especially for movies this site gives a shit about.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:36 p.m. CST

    That is true, tailhook --

    by MooseMalloy

    -- but if you want to see the real result of all those millions go visit Beverly Hills for a few hours.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:41 p.m. CST

    why would i care?

    by tailhook

    I want movies i'd like to see get made... not play Who's Grass Is Greener? with the rich. I'm not mentally ill like quite a few liberals and believe that for the world to be right and good we all need to be living in replicas of the exact same house making the exact same money (excepting them of course). Just produce quality movies I want to see and i'm there.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Well you made it clear that you do care, tail --

    by MooseMalloy

    -- by bringing up profits in the first place. Hollywood is laughing at you.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Fuck that, tailhook

    by D.Vader

    Absolutely no reason to bring dirty political talk into this discussion. Also here's a tip: liberals and communists aren't the same.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:58 p.m. CST

    Quint, about the book...

    by Mike

    The scene you mention doesn't make more sense in the book because it's not in the book. The book is a completely different story with completely different characters. For example, the main character is a cook that gets captured by pirates. He isn't a pirate to begin with. Also there are no mermaids in the book. The fountain of youth is in the book, but it is completely different as is the reasons for going there. Blackbeard is in the book, but he is also very different than in the movie aside from the way he looks. I liked, but didn't quite love the book and I liked, but didn't love the movie. They oddly enough had some similar flaws, but there stories are completely different.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:59 p.m. CST

    I bring up boxoffice...

    by tailhook

    Because thats how movies are scored and dictate future movie budgets. You're the one who brought up profits. As per Communist/Liberal, Liberal/Communist, or even Commie Libs... there isn't really that much difference in practice imo.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:09 p.m. CST

    Like I said --

    by MooseMalloy

    -- Hollywood loves you.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:10 p.m. CST

    Tailhook, here's on example of how they differ in practice

    by D.Vader

    Liberals don't believe in censorship. Communists do. As for the profit discussion, Moose's point was that the profits for movies do more to fill the coffers of producers rather than dictating what's the next movie to get the greenlight (that isn't part of the same series, I mean).

  • May 21, 2011, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Oh wait, I said --

    by MooseMalloy

    -- "Hollywood is laughing at you". Well at this point they do love you, 'cause you stick up for the well oiled machine so damn well!

  • May 21, 2011, 2:28 p.m. CST

    It's like this and like this and like this and uh....

    by Bobo_Vision

    ...like this and like this and like that and uh...

  • May 21, 2011, 2:33 p.m. CST

    Sadly enough, D.Vader...

    by Peter David

    There are plenty of liberals who believe in censorship. Which disgusts me since I happen to BE a liberal. I would highly recommend you check out Nat Hentoff's book "Free Speech for Me, But Not for Thee." It'll open your eyes on the topic of liberal censorship. None of which has the slightest thing to do with "Pirates." Arrrr. PAD

  • May 21, 2011, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Now this is hilarious --

    by MooseMalloy

    -- all I said was "fuck box office results" and everyone loses it!

  • May 21, 2011, 2:43 p.m. CST

    Indy 4 is awesome!

    by Orionsangels

  • May 21, 2011, 2:50 p.m. CST

    That's CAPTAIN Jack Sparrow -- if I hear that tired fucking joke again...

    by Professor_Monster

    I was sick of that joke in the first movie and somehow it's survived all the way to the fourth. I haven't liked any of these films and it goes to show you, you can give Disney a GOLDEN LAMB and they'll trade it in for a alley cat with dip. These movies continue to dive because Disney can't handle making good movies. It's a little like a guy who goes to Vegas all the time and only breaks even - then one day, he scores BIG. Now, his mind has been soiled. He must break BIG everytime he goes - so he gambles and gambles and gambles, desperate for that WIN but all he ends up doing is going broke and maybe back to where he started.

  • May 21, 2011, 3:15 p.m. CST

    Too bad. Hoped that no Keira and no Orlando would equate to

    by strosmer

    a good POTC movie. Oh well.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:27 p.m. CST

    Depp has lost his judgment of good scripts

    by Bobo_Vision

    Alice in Wonderland, The Tourist, this,....find your wings again, Johnny.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:36 p.m. CST

    Potc4 is NOT that bad

    by belorf

    Just saw it and it's nit that bad.

  • May 21, 2011, 5:11 p.m. CST

    Except...

    by tailhook

    I steered far away from On Stranger Tides this weekend. I said if they put out quality movies that I want to see, i'm there :P. I just find it hilarious how the movie-business has gone foreign-centric. Why else do you think we're going to get Eurotrash stuff like Tintin from The Beard? And yes, liberals are all for censorship... so long as its something they don't agree with.

  • May 21, 2011, 5:22 p.m. CST

    Anyone Who Talks About How Much They Hate This Film

    by Peter David

    Obviously did not have the thrill of taking their eight year old daughter to see "Hoodwinked 2." I still have bruises in my ribs from where she elbowed me repeatedly while whispering, "Daddy! Stop falling asleep!" So count your blessings. PAD

  • May 21, 2011, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Tailhook - Eurotrash stuff like Tintin?

    by irishraidersfan

    Yeah, cause US blockbusters are such high art...

  • May 21, 2011, 6:36 p.m. CST

    "I worked on the movie... "...cozy

    by DrMorbius

    "I worked on all these movies and I couldn't be bothered to watch them or even recommend them. It's embarrassing to be listed in the credits." Highly suspect that you did, but if so . . . Must have been REALLY embarassing cashing all those checks . . .

  • May 21, 2011, 7:01 p.m. CST

    That's sad, Peter David

    by D.Vader

    In theory, liberals should be against censorship. It's funny how hypocritical both sides are. For instance, liberals for the most part believe in freedom of expression but are also the ones who want everyone to be politically correct. Conservatives are all about limited government in our lives, but then they want the government to restrict gays from getting married. Hypocrisy!

  • May 21, 2011, 7:08 p.m. CST

    Its not great, but its not terrible.

    by shutupfanboy

    I thought it had some good moments like the Mermaid scene, Jack's mutiny and how Jack deals with Angelina. The problem with the movie is Angelina is not a good person and even the writers know it. Once we know that, Jack saving her makes the movie a bit hard to swallow. The Mermaid/Missionary storyline is tacked one yet its one of the better things. All the actors are good int their roles and yes the script has a lot of people showing up out of nowhere, but really its that bad or illogical. The save at the end needed one scene with Jack and the Mermaid to make sense. Yet, if you like Jack, you'll like the film if not I have no idea why you are going to this film. The other thing I noticed was a very anti-Christian vibe. The missionary falls in love, King George III hates the Spanish, because they are Catholics and the Catholic Spanish destroy the Fountain, because it defies God. Disney may get shit over it, but they are not wrong in regards to the English/Spanish relationship and the Spanish doing shitty things in the name of God.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:51 p.m. CST

    Can't Disagree, D.V.

    by Peter David

    See, the difference between liberals and conservatives is that the former try to censor because they're profess concern about other people's sensibilities while conservatives try to censor because they themselves don't want to be offended. Of the two, I think my fellow liberals are more full of it, using the concept of political correctness to appear as if they're being concerned about others when really it's just self-serving. I've always thought that liberals should take their guidance from one of the greatest liberals who ever lived, namely President Josiah Bartlet. From the pilot of "West Wing"-- John Van Dyke: Mr. President, may I ask you a question? Bartlet: Of course. John Van Dyke: If our children can buy pornography on any street corner for five dollars, isn't that too high a price to pay for free speech? Bartlet: No. John Van Dyke: Really? Bartlet: On the other hand, I think that five dollars is too high a price to pay for pornography. PAD

  • May 21, 2011, 8:15 p.m. CST

    I bring up boxoffice...

    by mwharr

    It's just as silly to call Liberals Communist as it is to call Conservatives Fascist.

  • May 21, 2011, 8:18 p.m. CST

    I bring up boxoffice...

    by mwharr

    It's just as silly to call liberals communist as it is to call conservatives fascist.

  • May 21, 2011, 8:31 p.m. CST

    To those who have seen the movie . . .

    by DrMorbius

    Any speculation as to why, when we are first introduce to Blackbeard, the ends of hair on his beard are burning? Never explained and never seen again!

  • May 21, 2011, 8:45 p.m. CST

    *introduced*

    by DrMorbius

  • May 21, 2011, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Because that's something Blackbeard actually did

    by Peter David

    It was something he was noted for, typically done when he wanted to intimidate others. So it makes sense that he would light 'em up upon his first entrance in order to intimidate the mutineers. We even see one of Barbossa's crew in the original film doing the same thing in obvious emulation of Blackbeard. PAD

  • May 21, 2011, 9:03 p.m. CST

    Yes. Eurotrash.

    by tailhook

    Tintin is a Belgian fucking reporter. Its based on a Belgian comic strip thats supposed to be popular everywhere but, gosh, America. And it gets a $135 mil budget and direction from The Beard. Why would that be? It isn't because of its appeal to us homeskillet, its because it appeals to foreigners and the foreign box office will cover its budget and then some, regardless of how it performs here in the States. If it catches on in The States, thats just gravy. Think of it this way. Its to us what Adam Sandler movies are there. Big here, but go over like a turd in a punchbowl overseas. In this case... Tintin should go big overseas, but barely scrape by here. Heck, why else do you think they managed to produce two Bean movies? Not because of the United States, thats for sure.

  • May 21, 2011, 9:15 p.m. CST

    You're showing your youth, Tailhook

    by Peter David

    TinTin WAS popular in the states, many years ago. When I was a child the TinTin animated series aired every day, usually in the mornings. Lots of kids loved it, including me. So for folks like me, this is a welcome return of a beloved childhood icon. PAD

  • May 21, 2011, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Thanks PAD

    by DrMorbius

    Do remember seeing eps of Tintin, sporadically. Will check out the new iteration. You?

  • May 21, 2011, 9:55 p.m. CST

    I consider myself to be younger than most here...

    by TheMarineBiologist

    ...but I still remember reading TinTin in my youth. I was as giddy as a schoolboy when I saw that trailer last week the second that it was posted.<p> And last I checked... I live in the States.

  • May 21, 2011, 9:56 p.m. CST

    Granted...

    by TheMarineBiologist

    ...I also forget how young the majority of the internet is. Perhaps I am actually older than most of you.

  • May 21, 2011, 9:58 p.m. CST

    Also, the missionary was absolutely critical in this movie...

    by TheMarineBiologist

    Without him, we wouldn't have gotten the "Missionary's position" line. Keep that in mind.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:11 p.m. CST

    "no abstract weirdness"

    by HerbSewell

    is exactly what made me HATE the first half of At World's End, that was the stupidest use of the character of Sparrow ever, the Locker could have been so much better, funnier, scarier, and they ruined it. At least in this movie Sparrow is being Sparrow and it's quite good, and hopefully we'll get a part 5. Herb out.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:23 p.m. CST

    herbsewell

    by DrMorbius

    They laid the groundwork for a sixth film. After the credits they show Angelica, where she is stranded on the isle, plucking the voodoo doll of Jack Sparrow (should be a Captain in there somewhere-that's for you professor_monster) out of the briny, and smiling.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:44 p.m. CST

    Lol.. in your Youth.

    by tailhook

    Sorry, grandpa. Kid of the 80's here and coming up on 40 in a couple years, so ya.. guess i'm a youngun to you old timers! I'm sure some fruity kids here and there might have pointed to it, but your average American thinks Tintin has something to do with the dog. If people came across it 'in their youth', it was a series of isolated incidents. Spielberg himself only found out about it when the 'elite' uppity critics from overseas were comparing Raiders of the Lost Ark to it. Either way, don't even try claiming Tintin has *ever* been in any way popular or well-known here in the states. It has very little name recognition.

  • May 22, 2011, 12:06 a.m. CST

    I just got back from seeing this

    by D.Vader

    Had a great time! Blackbeard isn't as good a villain as Barbossa or Davy Jones, and Marshall isn't as good a visual director as Verbinski is. A LOT of the old crew members from the Pearl were missed (I hope they're in the next one), and despite what others have said, Depp/Sparrow remains fully in charge throughout the whole movie, playing sides to get what he wants. The mermaid sequence was fantastic and something new we have not yet seen on film before. Some characters were just "there" and there seemed to be missing some scenes of pure "fun", like a Tortuga sequence in the others. But in the end, still and enjoyable flick, though maybe at the bottom of the list in terms of preference. Depp and Rush were great together, and I'll continue seeing these if they keep pumping them out.

  • May 22, 2011, 12:11 a.m. CST

    Drmorbius, seriously?

    by D.Vader

    I thought everyone knew that about Blackbeard. Thats one if the things that made him famous, putting fiery brands in his hair and beard!

  • May 22, 2011, 12:31 a.m. CST

    Just got back, with D.Vader

    by BlaGyver

    Fun one-off. It felt like a great starting point for more Jack adventures, almost like a season premiere. Gets everyone to a good status quo (especially Barbossa, he got a great ending) and introduced some fun new characters. Only real complaint: SPOILERS LIE AHEAD Mermaid and missionary boy: When she drags him off underwater....do they ever really explain what she's doing? Is she healing his wounds? Turning him into a merman? What? I don't particularly care, honestly. Their characters were pretty whatever, although whoever played the mermaid was gorgeous. END SPOILERS Again, fun popcorn flick. Liked the Judi Dench cameo as well.

  • May 22, 2011, 12:39 a.m. CST

    d.vader

    by DrMorbius

    Surely I didn't, and don't call me Shirley! Droid reviewed POTC at WotM and mentioned it, so just asked if anyone here knew why. PAD was kind enough to respond. I liked it well enough for what it was, really nothing like the so called reviewers here purported it to be. Cheers, pally boy.

  • May 22, 2011, 3:38 a.m. CST

    Quint in New Orleans!

    by Disruptors

    He must be on the set of the Bruce Willis/50 Cent movie. They were shooting near the arena yesterday. I saw Bruce Willis in High Limits last weekend!

  • May 22, 2011, 4:29 a.m. CST

    Do we really need anymore pirate movies?

    by droids22

    Each one is going just like shrek films. I think it's time to just stop. Getting old and tired. Find something else!

  • May 22, 2011, 4:30 a.m. CST

    Curse of the black pearl is the key too more POTC

    by drunkenmonkey73

    The film makers need watch this movie again to see why it worked so well, great story with characters you really liked, and not lost in a sea of chaos. The comedy timing was spot on, it was a wonderful comedy piratey ghost story with a dash of romance Ahaaaa me heartys!!

  • May 22, 2011, 8:56 a.m. CST

    Memory can play bad tricks

    by Suskis

    I keep reading everywhere that this movie lacks the original 1st magic. The 1st Caribbean movie was just MEH. Bloom and Knightley where unable to act and everything screamed Disneyworld in that movie. This 4th is not particularly better or worse. I still thing 2nd is the weakest and 3rd is best. Reason is behind Joffrey Rush presence: he is the greatest characters in all movies. Also 3rd movie is really epic and entertaining (something that 2nd lacks). I suggest to go back and see 1st movie instead of just using your memories. You'll find how mediocre that movie was (still enjoyable though).

  • May 22, 2011, 10:16 a.m. CST

    Blaguyver- mermaid and missionary spoilers

    by D.Vader

    I asked my gf what her interpretation of that final scene was, and she reminded me that one of the old salty dogs had the line- "They say a mermaid's kiss will keep a man from drowning." So, either A) the mermaid is putting the poor guy out of his dying misery and taking him to the deep, or B) her kiss keeps him from drowning and now they'll live together Under the Seeeea, Under the Seaaaaaa. And maybe if a mermaid's tear is needed for the Fountain of Youth, it has some healing properties too?

  • May 22, 2011, 10:19 a.m. CST

    "the 2nd one helped bury Superman Returns"

    by Subtitles_Off

    That's a GOOD thing.

  • May 22, 2011, 10:20 a.m. CST

    DrMorbs

    by D.Vader

    Ah yes, cool. I need to make my way over to WotM sometime and say hey. Blackbeard's base was here on the coast of North Carolina so perhaps we're used to stories of him and his fiery brands. I really wish we could have seen some NC action at the Outdr Banks, but ah, cest la vie.

  • May 22, 2011, 10:31 a.m. CST

    Peter Allen David ought to be ashamed of himself.

    by Subtitles_Off

    "...the whole purpose of a reviewer's life is to tell people what they should and should not see. If people don't listen to them, that REALLY pisses them off." The "whole" purpose of any writer's life is to write. Reviewers write their opinions. Fiction writers, like yourself, write fiction. But you writers are all peers. I should tell you what to write, based on what I like to read? Critics have created a poisonous atmosphere for PIRATES? They created a positive atmosphere for THOR. They may not be right in either case. If no one listens to the critics, as everyone in this generation constantly insists and Hollywood makes every continuing effort to prove, what DEƒUCK® does it matter what the critics write? The "whole" purpose of the reader is to make up their own mind and not blame their opinion on others. MKM

  • May 22, 2011, 10:46 a.m. CST

    I was a child when PAD was a child, and I don't know fukk about TinTin.

    by Subtitles_Off

    Beloved icon, my ass. Why am I always arguing with Peter Allen David? I'm actually a fan of Tigerheart and his work on Aquaman. Nice guy at Cons, too. But TinTin and reviewer-bashing?

  • May 22, 2011, 10:50 a.m. CST

    International box office record

    by RobertCrane

    This is all that needs to be said. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110522/ap_en_mo/us_box_office;_ylt=Akp7CEfAIy575SQgg2zzfP0wFxkF;_ylu=X3oDMTJqZGJlOTViBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwNTIyL3VzX2JveF9vZmZpY2UEcG9zAzEEc2VjA3luX3BhZ2luYXRlX3N1bW1hcnlfbGlzdARzbGsDcmVib290ZWRwaXJh

  • May 22, 2011, 10:55 a.m. CST

    Man, crane's URL is as long as my you-know,

    by Subtitles_Off

    flaccid.

  • May 22, 2011, 11:11 a.m. CST

    Waitaminute. TinTin's NOT the little, white dog?

    by Subtitles_Off

    Man-o-man. Next thing, I'm gonna find out there was a huge cult of "Little Nemo in Slumberland" going on in America while I was wasting my time in Little League.

  • May 22, 2011, 11:32 a.m. CST

    Why do you rewatch Indy 4 if you don't like it

    by Rupee88

    You watch it over and over yet you don't enjoy it...sounds retarded.

  • May 22, 2011, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Has nothing to do with the dog.

    by tailhook

    Most people when you say Tintin, reply with... Tintin? is that something to do with Rin Tin Tin?(the show about a dog)? Thats how little name recognition it has here in the States.

  • May 22, 2011, 12:39 p.m. CST

    Also, can we talk about how gorgeous that mermaid gal was?

    by BlaGyver

    Goddamn.

  • The part where Phillip gets stabbed in the stomach. I let out the loudest guffaw and it turned some heads....I just thought, you know, he'd been tied up for ten minutes, the kid finally cuts him loose and then he gets stabbed in the stomach immediately....what shit luck.

  • May 22, 2011, 1:23 p.m. CST

    subtitles_off - WRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNG!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by CARTMANEZ

    SRs box office and the resulting no sequel fiasco is one of the greatest injustices in hollywood history!

  • May 22, 2011, 1:33 p.m. CST

    the Indy 4 hate

    by CARTMANEZ

    people that hate on indy 4 due to the CG gophers/monkeys, nuked fridge, mutt, marion on crack etc are sort of missing the bigger picture - it managed to tap into the imagination, building up to an awesome exposition filled finale in a similar way to Raiders and Crusade (Doom with its fairly uninteresting Shankara Stones was always abit more of an action movie finale - but im a sucker for Doom and prefer it to Crusade anyday)...and in a way i like that the majority consider it a major disappointment...it makes Skull feel abit more special for those who really liked it... like ME!

  • May 22, 2011, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Die Soft 4 with bullet head McClane on the other hand..

    by CARTMANEZ

    should be strung up by its (tiny) balls and left to twist in the wind

  • May 22, 2011, 1:37 p.m. CST

    Not much of the book is in the movie.

    by BobJ812

    Which is very sad. There's some great cinematic moments that just didn't show up - particularly with Blackbeard. The screenwriter's heads need to be examined for leaving out those story points. I didn't expect a slavish adaptation, but Jesus.... I only hope Tim Powers will some day get some of his books made ("Last Call", "The Stress of Her Regard", "Anubis Gates" would be a great start) into great movies from the tiny profile raising he gets out of this.

  • May 22, 2011, 1:40 p.m. CST

    Alright, Tailhook

    by roguechef664

    Fellow child of the 80s here. Never Left the U.S. and been a Tintin fan since 78. Saw Tintin and the sea of sharks. Saw the animated series. Found the comics later. Your opinions are kind of narrow-minded. You sound like a typical football and beer American. a consistantly limited worldview. You sound unaware that there are other countries out there that also make movies and comics. They even write books there(Some of them are even in English). Tintin has been popular ALL over the world. And "A Bug's Life" is an insect Shinichi no Samurai. Broaden your worldview. Some of their beer is better too.

  • May 22, 2011, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Oh, and Snowy.

    by roguechef664

    Dog's name is Snowy

  • May 22, 2011, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Indy 4 stop mentioning it

    by scott spivey

    I think I agree with cartmanez, many missed the point to Indy 4, its supposed to be a B-RATED sci-fi-ish movie! But im tired of people bringing it up and QUINT if you it hate it more every time you watch it then STOP WATCHING IT and stop mentioning it when you are putting in your two cents on these movie "reviews" and review the damn movie we are talking about! I stopped watching The Phantom Menace and recently watched some clips of it, yeah I still hate Jake Lloyd and Jar Jar but the movie is actually not that bad, I liked it when it came out then I started listening to the negativity like I did on Indy 4 and Die Hard 4 and people are going along with this Bullshit! I have faults with some films Indy 4 included but I think when I don't miss the point of the movie I still enjoy it! That being said I thought that yes Pirates 4 wasn't up to the calliber as much but it was still a fun Popcorn summer movie, when most of those are crap! Nuff said!

  • May 22, 2011, 1:55 p.m. CST

    worst '4th' movie? BATMAN & ROBIN

    by CARTMANEZ

    worst by far (not Superman IV as that rocks)

  • May 22, 2011, 2:37 p.m. CST

    rogue...

    by tailhook

    I don't care. Welcome to America? And I tend to be one of the outliers, allthough i would never be faggoty enough to copy and paste the Japanese name(as if that buys you any credibility) for The Seven Samurai in a talkback post. Been there, seen that.. along with the American remake The Magnificent Seven. Rashomon. Yojimbo. Also watched quite a bit of John Woo's early work, so what. Let the Right One In? Seen it. Y Tu Mama Tambien. Seen it. Akira. Ghost in the Shell. Blah de blah de blah. Subtitles do exist in this dojo. So what. The fact remains that your average American simply doesn't know Tintin from Rin tin tin. Sorry if its news to you, but it isn't to the makers of the movie, who I guarantee you are looking at various ways of selling it to us come December... which usually boils down to 'FROM THE MAKERS OF RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK AND LORD OF THE RINGS comes the next great adventure epic...'. See, if Tintin was the unique snowflake everyone knew about(like say Harry Potter) that could sell itself.. it would. Instead, you need The Beard and The Jackson to back it up and put it over with the country as a whole.

  • May 22, 2011, 2:39 p.m. CST

    SR made as much money domestically as BATMAN BEGINS. Didn't it?

    by Subtitles_Off

    It made more than a lot of the superhero movies. It made more actual dollars than a couple of the earlier Superman films. It wasn't killed by poor Box Office. It was killed because it was a curdled, sour, ugly, boring, conceptually-rotten film. And because it was gay without being flamboyant and colorful. Bend over, Supes. I'm gonna give you your kryptonite from behind. Uh. Uh. Uhhhh. You're hurting me, Lex. Uh. Whimper. Whimper. Lois doesn't love me any more. Pout. This argument was over years ago.

  • Just slightly different colors of neon. So, technically, BATMAN & ROBIN is simply a continuation of the worst third movie ever made.

  • It is obviously very popular beyond the US' borders. The argument was that it had ever made any impact in America. Scratch that. Not just "any" impact. It was called a "beloved childhood icon" by an American writer. That's just fukking preposterous. Mickey Mouse, Huck Finn, Sherlock Holmes, Ali Baba, Hercules. Icons, you know. TinTin. Um, not so much.

  • I liked MERLIN BEGINS better when it was A SWORD IN THE STONE. Still, your point, as your others, is the sound one: Harry Potter is a foreign-to-Americans concept that they all know about. The same argument could be made for Tolkien. TinTin is a non-entity. I'm actually one of the few who think that might play into its favor, domestically-speaking, as a movie. People will be curious about it. "Hmmm. Steven Spielberg's making a comic-book adaptation. Shouldn't I have heard about this thing before?" Whether that's enough to sell it, I have no idea. Again, it's an all-CGI, all-humany thing. Those things have tanked and tanked hard.

  • May 22, 2011, 3:06 p.m. CST

    Okay, tailhook.

    by roguechef664

    First off, I am offended at your use of the F word. That usually gets you banned on other sites. Second no copy & paste here. I KNOW the original title. Wakarimasen nihongo skoshi desu, wakarimashta ka?

  • May 22, 2011, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Superman Returns.

    by tailhook

    The problem with that movie was two-fold. The first was sheer cost. Its budget was $270 million dollars. Not to mention they probably dropped another $100 mil just marketing the thing. If you drop upwards of $400 mil on a movie, you're looking for Avatar type numbers, or at least a billion dollar baby. Instead, they couldn't even break $400 mil and particularly damming was they pulled more domestically than globally. It simply did not have the global appeal they were looking for and as such could not justify the cost. Even then, the feedback they got was extremely negative. People simply didn't like the film, and continuing in that same vein would have been economic suicide. So they stepped back for a bit, restructured.. and brought in some new blood with a fresh angle. One of the things to always keep in mind is that how well a movie performs is not necessarily indicative of how good it was, but how well the next movie in that series does that tells the tale. What tends to happen is you have little name recognition, gain a lot during the run, but then gain a lot more during its run on video as other people that don't necessarily watch completely new things see it and like it. Its something they found out with Austin Powers, where the first film did like $50 mil total and then it blew wide open with #2. People caught onto the concept as a whole, and then showed up en masse for the sequel. People don't want to put their money down on a wildcard, they want a known quantity. The same thing happened with The Matrix. Most of the obsene money that #2 made had nothing at all to do with the quality of the second film and more to do with the quality of the first because of built expectations.

  • May 22, 2011, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Okay, tail.

    by roguechef664

    First, offended at the use of the F word. That can get you banned. Second I KNOW the original title, no copy & paste here. Some of us attempt to learn things instead of bitching about everything else.

  • May 22, 2011, 3:12 p.m. CST

    sorry bout the double

    by roguechef664

    didn't look like the first posted.

  • May 22, 2011, 3:51 p.m. CST

    Americans don't need to know who Tintin is

    by D.Vader

    This debate is pointless.

  • May 22, 2011, 3:57 p.m. CST

    "This debate is pointless."

    by Subtitles_Off

    Hehehehehe. Vades, you've been present for many, many AICN debates. Has there ever been one with a point?

  • May 22, 2011, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Touche, Subby

    by D.Vader

    Touche =).

  • May 22, 2011, 5:10 p.m. CST

    rogueche...

    by tailhook

    My bad. Didn't think you *actually* swung that way. /salute to you and yours.

  • May 22, 2011, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Various reponses

    by Peter David

    "The "whole" purpose of any writer's life is to write. Reviewers write their opinions. Fiction writers, like yourself, write fiction. But you writers are all peers." Not really, no. All writers are not peers. "I should tell you what to write, based on what I like to read?" Well, fans attempt to do that all the time, up to and including coming to my website and insisting (for instance) that I should never discuss politics. Isn't that great? They come to my blog and try to dictate its contents. Anyway...your comment has nothing to do with anything I said. I'm not trying to dictate what reviewers should say. I'm simply making observations about what they DID say. "Critics have created a poisonous atmosphere for PIRATES? They created a positive atmosphere for THOR." Oh yeah, the New York Times review was a real ray of sunshine. "They may not be right in either case. If no one listens to the critics, as everyone in this generation constantly insists and Hollywood makes every continuing effort to prove, what DEƒUCK® does it matter what the critics write?" If you mean what difference it makes in terms of box office, probably little to none. Which is what I was saying in the first place, so I'm not sure what you're going on about. "The "whole" purpose of the reader is to make up their own mind and not blame their opinion on others." Right. And most people are going to make up their minds to ignore the critics in this case, which reviewers are openly acknowledging even as they bitch about it, which is what I said in the first place. So it seems like you're trying to pick a fight with me except you're just reiterating what I said, but angrily. So, y'know, whatever. "TinTin is a nonentity." TinTin has been entertaining readers since 1929. His adventures have been published in over eighty languages and 350 million TinTin books have been sold, so this is some definition of "nonentity" with which I'm unfamiliar. Your attitude is American provincialism at its most typical: "I've never heard of it; therefore it's no good. It's popular in Europe so it must suck." The Smurfs, the Power Rangers, Pokemon--just a few examples of properties that were popular elsewhere before they made it over here. "The fact remains that your average American simply doesn't know Tintin from Rin tin tin." The "average" American? That's where you're drawing your line: What the "average" American knows? Seriously? One American in four doesn't know who we fought against in the American revolution. As recently as ten years ago, twenty percent of people surveyed thought the sun moved around the Earth. Sixty percent of surveyed Americans don't know what the Constitution is, sixty-three percent don't know how many justices there are on the Supreme Court, and more people can name the Three Stooges than can name the three branches of government. So if you want to add TinTin to the staggering pile of things that Americans don't know about, you go right ahead. That doesn't mean the character is unworthy of the big screen treatment or that Spielberg is somehow wrongheaded in making a film based on him. PAD

  • May 22, 2011, 9:04 p.m. CST

    Enjoyed it.

    by TDH1138

    I liked the movie. Wasn't the least bit disappointed. I have NO idea what you people were expecting from it but I was entertained. Looking forward to 5. I really have no idea what makes the people who review and read this site think they are the last word on film. Seriously... 12 years ago, maybe I'd listen (not really), but I guess Harry and the other weren't invited to the set on this one so it's apparently gets a bad review. Yes, I'm calling it like I see it. You get your asses kissed and you write a good review and all your sheeple follow behind and without seeing a frame back you. Reviews on this site are about as dependable as newsprint diapers.

  • May 23, 2011, 4:44 a.m. CST

    Tintin, not so much. Now Peter David...

    by tailhook

    That is a man whose works i've been enjoying since 1989. /salute. As per my statement, it simply is fact and I don't care how many books its sold overseas or who comes out trying to puff up its overall profile as if people who didn't know what it was were stupid. In this country, it *IS* a non-entity. It simply has not made much of an impact. In fact, not even the "above average" American knows what Tintin is. Go walking down the street and just start asking people and maybe 1 in 50(or worse), hit on the right answer. This isn't Harry Potter. Its not even a classic such as Beowulf. Now, could it turn out to be an awesome movie? Perhaps. I'd give it a shot. But it allready has its work cut out for it simply in introducing the character to American audiences, because they simply do not know who or even what Tintin is and the only thing that will change that is the movie come December. One other thing. If it weren't Jackson and Spielberg behind it, the movie would never have been financed and would never have been made.

  • May 23, 2011, 5:54 a.m. CST

    hello?

    by CARTMANEZ

  • May 23, 2011, 5:54 a.m. CST

    WTF?

    by CARTMANEZ

  • May 23, 2011, 8:17 a.m. CST

    I know the conversation has moved on from this movie...

    by blackwood

    ...but I saw it, and I liked it. A lot. Sword fights were dull and lifeless and too frequent. There were some goofy bits that were a touch tedious, like when Jack meets King George and the whole escape sequence. The action wasn't as light on it's feet as it should have been. But the mermaid reveal was incredibly cool. One of the things Verbinski excelled at was genuine eeriness. He was able to tap in to the 'spookiness' of Pirates, and the mermaid attack scene did that really, really well. I thought McShane played a really interesting Blackbeard. Tired old man afraid of dying, still rotten to the core. I think he sold it well. The Mermaid and the Missionary should have been beefed up. I definitely agree with Massa, when he says that would have been a more interesting story to hang the rest of the show on. Barbossa was the best Barbossa has ever been. With Jack given so much more screen time, Barbossa is more in the Sparrow role, and he nails it. I love his peg leg and being one of the King's Men. There's one scene, where Jack is set loose to find the cups, and he stumbles and falls, pops up and immediately duels the shrub that tripped him. I almost lost my shit. It's a weird thing for such a small, silly moment to mean so much, but it proved to me just how much I still enjoy this character and will keep following his adventures for good or ill until they stop going on them. I really think the broad critical spectrum is out of touch on this film -- or maybe I just saw it at the exact right time in the exact right mood -- expectations lowered considerably, looking for something light and fun. Sure, it's not perfect, but I think its strengths far outweigh its weaknesses. The 'one-off' approach is the right one to take for the franchise. I don't think Rob Marshall brought anything special to the series, though. Going forward, I'd like a new director to come in for each installment. Saw it in 2D. Don't feel like I missed anything, although I wouldn't mind the mermaid attack in 3D.

  • I think that's true. Especially when you've got some critics proclaiming it as one of the worst films of all time. It seems in today's environment, if the movie isn't perfect, then its shit. Unfortunately, it seems to be that critics are just trying to make as much noise as possible to still appear relevant. Same goes for fanboys on talkbacks and other message boards. LOTS of hyperbole being thrown around instead of genuine criticism.

  • May 23, 2011, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Harry Potter

    by Peter David

    Just FYI, Harry Potter--just like TinTin--was a hit in Europe before it ever landed here. Originally entitled "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone," the title was changed to "the Sorcerer's Stone" because it was believed that the Average American was too ignorant to know what the Philosopher's Stone was. So every time someone invokes Harry Potter, all you do is prove that stories and characters popular elsewhere can then wind up becoming popular here. And again, Tin Tin did make an impact for many people of my age who have very fond memories of the character from the early 1960s. So basically all you're doing at this point is disrespecting my childhood memories. Which is fine, because that always come around, and someday you'll be the one talking about characters or actors or songs you have pleasant memories of and those younger than you will be looking at you oddly and asking what the hell you're talking about. PAD

  • May 23, 2011, 10:30 a.m. CST

    I don't Get the Venom...I enjoyed it

    by Wcwlkr

    I mean it definitely has holes. And Quint nailed it with early description of the one character going out of their way to save someone they should hate. But outside of the holes I loved the extra screentime Captain Jack got, and I still enjoyed his comedy and antics. He didn't play people as much but in the end he still proved himself the smartest person in the room. And won the day classic Jack Sparrow style. I look forward to seeing where this is going.

  • May 23, 2011, 10:42 a.m. CST

    Very enjoyable movie for the entire family

    by thot

    Funny, adventurous with a bit of darkness and romance. A nice balance for a fun night out at the movies. The last two Pirates films had gotten increasingly dark, tedious and LONG. OST takes it back to the lighter side (more like the first one) and succeeds in entertaining. The ending left me wanting more and it appears Mr. Jack Sparrow will be back for more adventures! Aye,...a pirate's life for me indeed!

  • May 23, 2011, 10:49 a.m. CST

    Sheep

    by lonecow12

    I always enjoy seeing how much of a flock of sheep most Talkbackers are. You all think you are such rebels and individuals but all you do is shit over everything. The movie was a lot better than the third one. If this had been the first Pirates film everyone would say how amazing it is, but because the cast is small and there are less explosions and overly complicated plots, people think it sucks.

  • Nobody cared, because that shit was absolutely insane. I thought they'd just drag sailors under or something like that, didn't see the whole jumping-out-of-the-water shit coming. Loved it. I got a certain feeling when I watched this. Not comparing in terms of quality, but it very much felt like an Indiana Jones movie. Mostly self-contained, searching for a mythic object or location, just enough stuff that would carry over into a second movie...laughs, action, fun as a whole.

  • May 23, 2011, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Also, to Mr. David

    by BlaGyver

    Might as well say this while a talkback has your attention. I'm a big fan. Your run on She-Hulk was the first series I ever bought on a monthly basis. Always good to see you on the talkbacks, your posts are always very well-worded and insightful.

  • May 23, 2011, 12:58 p.m. CST

    The Worst Thing About this Shit

    by Woodrow_Wilson_Smith

    Is that we now will never see Tim Powers amazing book made into a movie. Fucking Disney owns the rights and won't give them up. Crap really is king. Same with "First Class". We'll never see the comic made into a movie because the brand was bought by Fox to make the shit they are putting out.

  • May 23, 2011, 1:51 p.m. CST

    not as bad as 2 & 3

    by taff

    Liked it better than 2 & 3 although even those poor movies had a few stand out scenes. Didn't walk away with a stand out scene in my mind, but I did enjoy the movie more than the previous two.

  • May 23, 2011, 2:02 p.m. CST

    Well, look at it this way, Smith

    by Peter David

    If the Powers book had been made into a film, fans would have been shouting, "Why'd they wreck a great book by turning in into this lousy movie!" So that's a bullet dodged. Meanwhile if this film winds up introducing fans to the Powers book who didn't know about it before, then that's all to his benefit, right? Isn't that a good thing, steering people to the source material? How many novels have found new life because the movie steers new readers to it? So rather than being annoyed that a film which you likely would have found inferior to the book is never going to be made, why not be happy that more people will experience the novel? As a matter of fact, let's check Amazon. Hmmm. Well, it appears the book's been out of print for a few years, except...oh look. Thanks to the movie, there's a new edition. And it's ranked 2700 on Amazon, which ain't bad for a book first published in 1988. So that's some nice found money for Tim Powers. So how you look at it is sort of a glass half full/half empty kind of deal, isn't it. Oh, and to everyone else who said nice things about my work...thanks. Always great to hear from fans. PAD

  • May 23, 2011, 3:06 p.m. CST

    Harry Potter

    by tailhook

    It was less than one year between when it was released in England and when it was released in the US and it went nuclear and insanely popular in both places pretty much immediately. Tintin has been around *82* years and has never made a significant impact here in the States. Have select children come across it and liked it? Sure. Good for you. But my oh my its hilarious that you bust out the age-old talkback cliche that I 'raped'(disrespected in this instance) your childhood memories. Please. You give me too much credit, sir. And personally, if a kid comes along and i'm talking about characters or actors or songs or books by Peter David and a kid looks at me weird, i'm more than happy to introduce them to them. Maybe they like them, maybe they don't. Different people like different things. But I'm not going to stick my nose in the air and claim they *allready* should have known about them and that they're stupid for having not. Everything is new to somebody, thats the fun of sharing with friends and loved ones. Its simple, Tintin has a long way to go to sell itself here in the States because its simply not known. The ad men behind it are well aware of that. It allready has a couple of strikes against it given that its motion crapture(sorry, I have yet to see a movie that was solely motion capture, that can even hold a candle to real animated stuff), and the fact that having your protaganist be a reporter for a European Newspaper isn't exactly something that sets most young US minds on fire. If it did, Tintin would have been widely popular here long before now.

  • May 23, 2011, 3:33 p.m. CST

    ExCUSE Me?

    by Peter David

    "But my oh my its hilarious that you bust out the age-old talkback cliche that I 'raped'(disrespected in this instance) your childhood memories. Please. You give me too much credit, sir." If it's of any consolation, whatever credit I might have given you is rescinded when you attempt to take such a loaded word as "raped" and ascribe it to my sentiments. Unlike some, I don't spend enough time hereabouts to know what's cliche and what's not. I will say, though, that certainly Americans saying that, because they've never heard of something, it's effectively of no worth (a "non-entity")...THAT is a cliche. "But I'm not going to stick my nose in the air and claim they *allready* should have known about them and that they're stupid for having not." I didn't say you were stupid for not having heard of it "allready," or even already. I didn't say you should have known about it. I simply said I *did* know about TinTin, which I do, and that he's been around for decades,which he was. I'm unclear why you repeatedly have to be dismissive of those who grew up with the character just because you didn't, other than that it's a (to use your phrase) cliched attitude that Americans display about things that are popular in Europe. PAD

  • May 24, 2011, 12:59 a.m. CST

    If you're going to do the talkback thing.

    by tailhook

    A thick skin is highly required. Trust me, not here to make things personal. Also, just to cover the lingo.. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=george+lucas+raped+my+childhood Someone uses that when they want to go over the top in their aghastness at something and exaggerate the impact it had on them, often without the george lucas part and used for pretty much any generic thing. I simply called it a non-entity here in the States... saying that went so far as to disrespect your childhood(when i have absolutely no idea where you grew up or how), was a bit much. As per the attitude or whatever being cliche? Don't really care if i'm a walking cliche or not. I've been called far worse and talkbacks are more a verbal no-holds-barred sparring arena for geek culture than anything actually constructive. How well or bad something actually does is largely based on whether people actually go see it or not, and these talkbacks have extremely little influence on that. But just be glad your content isn't the pinata being dissected this week. And taking anything said here seriously beyond the superficial is an awesome way to end up in need of therapy.

  • May 24, 2011, 3:25 a.m. CST

    ON STRANGER TIDES by Tim Powers was AWESOME.

    by Hat Man

    Read it! Pirates 4 had nothing in common with this novel, except pirates, Blackbeard's name, a place called the Fountain of Youth AND THAT'S IT. Do not blame any of this pedestrian film's failings on the novel, which itself would have been a fantastic movie in its own right. Buy the novel and read it. Tim Powers deserves some royalties after this.

  • May 24, 2011, 9:51 a.m. CST

    Talkbacks

    by Peter David

    "As per the attitude or whatever being cliche? Don't really care if i'm a walking cliche or not. I've been called far worse and talkbacks are more a verbal no-holds-barred sparring arena for geek culture than anything actually constructive." See, whereas I think they could be more. I think they could actually be arenas for intelligent discussion rather than verbal mud-wrestling sessions. I think Talkbacks, not to mention chat boards and chat rooms in general, can be no more and no less than what you make of them. PAD

  • May 24, 2011, 2:39 p.m. CST

    Sure...

    by tailhook

    But that will never happen until the anonymity is removed and heavy regulation(i.e. Hitler mods) are introduced. The output is reflective of the strictures on the input(or lack thereof). Either way, regulating them to generate better "intelligent" output has its own issues. I like the anonymity, honestly, it lets people say what they really want without the peer pressure of having to wrap themselves in a verbal straightjacket for fear that someone, somewhere will take offense to anything they say.. no matter how mundane. Look at how often celebrities get in trouble over Twitter. Simply accept talkbacks simply for what they are, not what you'd like them to be.