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pEtEr Gives a not so-spectacular look at ROMEO MUST DIE
Hey folks, Harry here. Ya know... WHen I heard about ROMEO MUST DIE... and it being a play on the whole ROMEO AND JULIET thing... My heart sank... just a bit, because I realized that in all liklihood... that meant that JET LI would at least be off camera for as much as he was on camera. Then when ya look at that great trailer... It looks like a JET LI movie. Now... this was a Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay early screening. And yes they are doing A LOT more work on the film... But temper your excitement a tad or two... Personally, I'm dying to get my SWORDMASTER 2 dvd!
To Harry,
I am an AVID Jet Li fan who was fortunate to have seen that first sneak
preview. After reading the review from Mysterio on your site, I felt that I
needed to add my two cents worth of opinion in RMD as Mysterio reflected
only some of what I felt about RMD. As you well know opinions are like ass
holes, everybody has one. However, after having seen the RMD preview in
theaters and seeing people's excited reaction to this preview, I felt that
people maybe be disappointed when they go and see RMD. The preview made this
film look so much more interesting than the way it was at the sneak that I
saw. I know they are making changes at Silver pictures as we speak. But I
thought I should throw in my two cents worth, a bit more negative regarding
RMD, and some spoilers here. But I like to think of it as constructive
criticism.
Ok, here goes....
Well, I think for the most part with the right editing, it will be basically
an entertaining movie, i.e. not a bad movie, but not a great one either. It
will do marginally well at the box office as a pure action movie as long as
people aren't looking for any intellectual stimulation.
The first part of the film after Han arrived in US was REAL boring!!! There
was so much talking and introduction of all these other characters (which
still isn't completely clear)!!! Where was Jet? I thought this was a Jet Li
movie!
Maybe it's because of my involvement in chinese martial arts (wushu), but
there were a couple of wire stunts that I thought were outrageous and didn't
work well. Maybe it's bad editing. But the one that bugs me the most is the
one where jet kicks 3 or 5 (?) black guys in a row in the warehouse scene
and then finishes by jumping off the wall. If they want to do the matrix
stuff they should let us see it clearly, slow it down or something, right
now it's speed up so fast and so far away, I have no clue what it is. And it
looks funny.
Also about wushu, the couple of movements that Russel Wong does during his
workout scene are just ridiculous and laughable. Really, the scene should
be longer hopefully giving some credibility to his prowess in wushu as far
as the movie is concerned.
As for story, I was left with a very bad taste in my mouth about how Chinese
were portrayed in the film. Besides Chinese that are supposedly in Hong
Kong that can't speak Cantonese worth shit, or Chinese in Oakland that can’t
speak English (using phrases like "the honorable Mr. Whatever" and "the
venerable Mr. whoever").... Also, what the hell were those kids saying in
the water?!!! That didn't even come close to sounding like Chinese! Also,
in the movie, the black mob boss is so nice and wants to do everything for
his children and community (HE'S A MOB BOSS!!), whereas the Chinese mob boss
is just a money grubbing old man and just wants to kill everyone including
HIS OWN CHILDREN.
Where's the ebonics? Do black people from Oakland generally sound so
whitewashed?
Why is Han in jail? Why does Han hate his father other than for being a
mobster....all not clear. Where is Jet in this Jet Li movie? I thought this
was the Black mob daddy's movie!!!
For getting major billing, where's DMX?
where's the love story? If this is Romeo and Juliet, where are all the
scenes where Romeo and Juliet interact romantically?
So at the end, Han the fugitive from Hong Kong can walk away from a
murder/suicide scene and not be at least questioned by all those cops???!!!
Well, I’d still go and watch this because it's a Jet Li film and I know they
are trying to do more work on it and the fighting editing will be better.
But for a Jet Li film, there is not enough Jet Li in it. Maybe Hollywood
don't trust a Chinese actor to carry a big film such as this yet?
sincerely,
pEtEr
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Yeeeee hah!!! Woooo Hooo!!!
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Mightn't you mean Swordsman 2?
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...You see what I did there? That's called the "quart of blood technique". You do that to a man, a quart of blood comes out!--- Everybody be cool... YOU be cool.
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yep two cents is right... i guess we'll see once it comes out. let's just give the movie a go.
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I usually don't post on Talk Back because I like to read what everyone else writes and if something strikes me, I will respond. In this case it is to the part in your review where you say "where's the ebonics" in reference to several black characters speech patterns. This is comment made by someone who bases his views towards blacks on stereotypes. I'm a black male with many black (and white) friends and I find it amusing (I can't get offended at ignorance) that you would suggest that the black characters in the movie should speak "ebonics". Personally, I don't know what the hell ebonics is and have always hated the term. That would be like saying that Italian Americans speak "Sicilionics" or that people from below the Mason Dixon line speak "Southonics". It's ludicrous. The way one speaks is in direct relation to the environment he/she was raised in and I don't consider myself "whitewashed" because I don't say "Hi homies, are you guys chilling in the hood" as Peter seems to be intimating all blacks should sound like. In fact, most black people I know don't speak in any special way that is so noticeably different from you average American. Your knowledge of and interraction with blacks in this country must be extremely limited if you can sum up the entire race's speech pattern with one word. Blacks speak all types of ways and your ignorance to this means that you should never, ever comment on this subject since you are quite misinformed on it. Don't believe everything you see on the news and media sterotypes. A black person doesn't have to be "whitewashed" to speak using terms other than slang just as there's nothing wrong with using slang. I know many white kids who speak using slang terms. Are they speaking ebonics? Maybe they're speaking white ebonics. Am I speaking Caucasiononics if I don't speak using slang? See how ridiculous it gets? It all comes down to sounds that human beings make from their vocal chords to communicate with each other.
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When Han walks away from the murder/suicide scene, is it right after he rescues Chewie?
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That was stupid. I'm sorry.
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who wasn't all that impressed by the trailer?
I mean, I like Jet as well as the next guy (well, judging by some of the people here maybe not as well as the next guy, but I like him) but the movie (as a whole) looked tired and retred to me.
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Some of the fight moves not realistic? No. Never! Are you trying to tell me that a movie would make-up fanciful moves just for the sake of trying to entertain the audience? I'm shocked. So the Bloated Monkey or Castrated Emu aren't real martial arts techniques? I am BadAshe's bitter disillusionment. BTW, props to you for sounding so ignorant with you "ebonics" statement. You aren't related to John Rooker by any chance?
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Good call, BadAshe. Hey, here's an idea! Maybe they could take a cue from Robbie Coltrane's THE POPE MUST DIE, and re-title it ROMEO MUST DIET. That way, nobody will be offended, and a good time can be had by all.
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Jan 06, 2000 11:32:57 AM CST
I told you so! "You can't polish a turd, but if you eyes and ear
by uncapie
Except for Jet's incredible ability as a martial artist, where's the the story?!! Is there a room full of chimps on some studio backlot writing these scripts or what?!! Also, I.Q. tests should be MANDATORY for every studio exec. There would be 90% job openings!
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Jan 06, 2000 11:34:00 AM CST
ON WHY WOO'S 'HARDBOILED' AND 'THE KILLER' ARE TWO OF THE MOST O
by sarin rufus 2
O MAN,i've got no time for some American mtv director trying to make a fucking hong kong style action movie,oh fucking please....we've seen this type of movie before and its called 'THE LAST DRAGON',and if memory serves me right,it was a good laugh too.Right.Let's get onto my main point,both the KILLER and HARDBOILED are so massively over-rated,it makes me puke,best action movies of all time,no fucking way..behave...both films have terrible scripts,plots that make no sense,no characterisation worth talking about,terrible attempts at humour,pretty useless acting..err you heard right,chow yun fat has about as much charisma on screen as jim varney(of ernest fame),o.K SO WHAT ABOUT THE GREAT FUCKING ACTION I HEAR YOU CRY...yer..yer..goe suck a duck..two words..SAM-FUCKING-PECKINPAH..that slow-mo firing guns in the air was invented by him,not woo,and anyway i've always thought WOO's sense of direction sucks,its just 'kill as many guys in this scene as possible',without any real idea about how this effects the overall film.As far as im concerned,FACE/OFF was by far his best film to date,even if the film never realised its full potenial(thats for another talkback),it still had an interesting story and a coherent script.Don't be fooled,when hollywood is good,it kicks the arse's of most HONG KONG films,PREDATOR KICKS THE KILLERS ARSE,AND DIEHARD ANNIHILATES HARDBOILED.......Where hong kong films work best,its movies like 'THE STORY OF RICKY',a totally fucked up prison movie on the surface,but ends up being an excuse for title character ricky to kill other evil prisoners in some of the most blood-letting and over the top special effects killings ever put onto screen,GO AND SEE THIS FILM TODAY.....IT ROCKS...I'VE SEARCHED HONG KONG CINEMA AND THERE'S NO OTHER FILM EVER MADE QUITE LIKE IT.
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The action in the movie didn't correctly portray wushu? The stunts were unbelievable and faked? Well shoot. That spoils it right there for me because lord knows if I can't honestly believe one guy with a chair could take on eleven swordsmen and come out unscratched then I just can't be bothered with watching. Sorry, but if some one realistically portrayed two martial artists fighting it would be one of the most boring moments in cinematic history with brief flurries of ten second action followed by long pauses to size each other up and/or catch their breath. Personally, if I want to see actual wushu I'll head down to my local sifu and ask (politely) for a lesson.
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It was directed by Andrzej Bartkowiak, the talented cinematographer of THE VERDICT, PRIZZI'S HONOR and THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. That's okay, Sarin, never let the facts get in the way of your typical knee-jerk generalizations. Your posts just wouldn't have the same pointless aura without them.
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OH GREAT FOR YOU,you caught me out beaky.Well fuck a duck,the fact he's a former cinematographer really fills me with hope for this movie...like fuck it does...it just means the script 'blew so bad',no fucking director worth his salt would touch the piece of shit,so some Hollywood suite says 'give it to some fucking cinematographer,they'll do any old shit'...as for the films he's lensed,they're hardly films that'd strike one to think 'mr eastern bloc' was the ideal fucking director for this material,now would it.
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I was holding out for Larry Cohen, but he opted out when they nixed his attempt to shoehorn a killer baby subplot into the film. Personally, I think those suckers would've been a formidable opponent for Jet Li, but the execs thought otherwise.
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i've heard a lot of stupid shit on these talkbacks, but pEtEr, you take the fucking cake! go crawl back under your white hood you fucking moron!
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Isn't that like saying an insect committed 'bugicide' in accordance to the human form 'suicide'...that's an uneducated comparison... your post was fundamentally correct, and...it is true that most of the poster's probably do have a limited experience dealing with black people...But... take this in the context of the film...ok?...youve got DMX in a co-starring role...youre dealing with Mob bosses and gangstas...is that not subject enough for the use of slang?... from what sounds like black and chinese?....peter is obviously miffed at the lack of characterisation on both parties..in being true to the film...are you one of those who also attack Jackie Brown for its use of the word nigger or maybe Ordell and Beaumont's use of slang?? Consider Winston's apparent lack of heavy slang...it's all in the context, pal....
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Yes, GANGSTERS from OAKLAND are going to talk in "ebonics" (if that is what you want to call it). That is the way GANGSTERS talk, it has nothing to do with the entire black race. It is obvious the filmmakers just wanted to be different, put a little twist on it. . but it is in no way realistic. Racist or not.
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People from different parts of the country speak in certain ways. Would you expect to go to Texas and hear people speaking in Queen's English, white, black, asian, or whatever? No, i don't think so.
Al Pacino's Scarface character is a Puerto Rican mobster. What if he sounded Italian or Irish. Is that believable?
Would "Boyz in the Hood" be the same movie if the actors didn't speak the way they did?
Maybe ebonics isn't the right term. But colloquialisms and accents are all parts of a character's environment that an actor must work within to make the portrayal believable.
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It's not the prefix "eb" that denotes black it "ebon" which comes from ebony which is, of course, black. That's where the expression comes from. And I didn't say the subject matter wasn't cause for slang, I said that ebonics is a ridiculous term. Pleas read a statement carefully and don't respond just to respond.
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There is a certain amount of fantasy when it comes to martial arts in movies, but if you notice, the majority of the really crazy, unbelievable type wire stunts are only in the period pieces where people are supposed to be able to fly and shoot fireballs.
When it comes to the more modern day stories, the unbelieveable is more toned down. Fists and feet are still focused on, but nobody flies and the fireballs are shot out of something that makes sense. Whether the action is physically believable or not depends on the type of story you're trying to sell.
but with all this considered, it still has to look good. -
I am well aware of the etymology of the term ebon and ebonics... and while it may be more appropriate to use the term slang...the fact that ebonics was used is due in large part to the huge introduction into popular culture of the black gangsta culture and version of slang... it is fine that you would carry a campaign against the term, it is a rather ridiculous media contrivance, but a coined term is just such.. and it is apparently understood by yourself(although you deny it) and the other posters...and when commenting on this film dealing with black mob bosses, ebonics may have been the correct term...pEtEr doesnt appear to be intimating that all blacks must sound like this...it seems he's speaking in regard to this particular film...and to better correct you...since the word ebonics is rooted in ebon... the correct form for your comparisons would be Sicilics or Caucasics or Southics... where there is no "on"..and that is what you would have realised were you not so quick to ridicule a contributor
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One more thing, in all this discussion about "ebonics" and such, why is no one focusing on poor portrayal of the Chinese and the lack of screen time for Jet?
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I'll tell you why, its because no one gives a shit. Asians are now the easiest minority to discriminate against in Hollywood. Why? Because they're a nonvocal minority. You see the NAACP screaming for more minority involvement in television, you don't hear asian groups doing squat. Hollywood has always discriminated against someone, now its the most PC to discriminate against asians.
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I wasn't attempting to ridicule you but if you look at the context of your initial post, it seemed to have a condescending air to it, especially the way you ended it with "it's in the context, pal". And what Peter said was "Where's the Ebonics" as if there was some universal language that black people speak in, which there is not. The whole Sicilics thing, to me, was an attempt to split hairs in order to make a point when I'm sure you know what I meant. The reason I wrote my first post was not to start a back and forth but to educate someone who, I believe, used a term loosely without regard for it's meaning. Again, I never said that slang did not have a place in movies, especially when they're trying to be presented realistically but there is no "ebonics" language as Peter seems to be suggesting. It's all in his context, pal.
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But Unsu...Sleepy Hollow Did suck. It sucked in the exact same way Phantom Menace did. Durn purty to look at but durn simple and idiotic and way too long. By cutting out at least a half hour of Sleepy Hollow and possibly more from Phantom Meance, they could've been much better. At the very least they would definitely have been more entertaining.
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Us hardcore Jet Li fans have been spoiled by his Hong Kong movies, most of which are just out of control action with a pretty much non-existant plot. If you've seen High Risk, any of the Once Upon a Time in China series (except for 4 and 5, which are minus Jet Li) , etc. etc. you know what I'm talking about. With that in mind, any time I hear Jet Li is in a movie, I get REALLY excited. If this is just another crappy American wanna-be HK action movie, I'll be pissed (like the Big sHIt the Replacement Killers). Let's hope Jet can make the transition to America well, so many HK talent didn't (last I heard Ringo Lam and Tsui Hark were directing Van Damme movies) Also, there are some success stories (John Woo, Yuen Woo Ping doing coreograpy, but give a damn movie to direct!), but overall every person to come here from HK has been reduced to straight-to-video caliber action movies.
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Ugh....Thats the most inappropriate comparison I've read in recent weeks. Sorry, there's more to movies than just plot. Keep in mind that Phantom Menace did nothing to develop its characters or relationships, while Sleepy Hollow at least tried. The character of Ichabod Crane was at least a different person at the end of the film, he underwent some kind of change as the story progressed! Characters in phantom menace were just trampolines to bounce the special effects off of.
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correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't the term "ebonics" coined by a looney group of west coast school teachers who wanted to have it included in public school curriculum?
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You're right. The first I ever heard of the term was from that situation several years ago. My feeling is that because several misguided teachers decided to coin the phrase doesn't mean that it should now be used as the definitive term to describe the way all black people speak. The media took it and ran wild with it.
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what anyone says, I'm looking forward to this movie. It looks to have everything you want in a Jet Li/HK action film. And I'm not too concerned about the "realism" of the martial arts. If you wanted realism, you'd go to a tournament, not a movie.
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what anyone says, I'm looking forward to this movie. It looks to have everything you want in a Jet Li/HK action film. And I'm not too concerned about the "realism" of the martial arts. If you wanted realism, you'd go to a tournament, not a movie.
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This doesn't have much to do with the article, but I just want to say that everyone here who hasn't seen Jet Li's DR. WAI AND THE SCRIPTURE WITH NO WORDS should see it (preferably on DVD.) It's directed by Ching Siu Tung and it's really funny and visually beautiful. Note: Sarin whatever- I agree with you that John Woo is not the best action director working today-- I like him a lot, but I think the top honors should go to Ringo Lam and Ching Siu Tung (tie).
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You're correct. That term is not a "media contrivance", but rather an attempt by certain educators in California to quantify a style of speech as a "language" in order to utilize it as a course of study and/or further attack standardized tests as being culturally biased. As for Peter's review, it was crass of him to make the statements as he did. Sometimes a call for "realism" really is racism in disguise, however, I am NOT accusing Peter of racism only explaining why Stormwatch could very easily get offended. Lastly, Niiice, you are very correct about Asians seemingly being "fair game" for stereotyping. While one could debate about what is "positive", it seems like this non-vocal minority is fair game simply because Hollywood feels that to portray them as always smart, industrious and great at martial arts makes it somehow "okay" to add the language and other negative stereotypes to Asians in film. Oh well...
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Being a big Martial Arts fan I would like to see Hollywood doing a proper Martial Arts film. None of this jumping off walls cack after coshing five dudes I mean real fighting, The Matrix (excellent though it is) didn't feature true Martial Arts. If you ask me the film which launched Jet Li onto the Hollywood scene was Fist of Legend. I have friends who haven't the time of day for Martial Arts films but rate this as an excellent film (okay there are one or two dodgy scenes) this should be a base for Hollywood to work on for Martial Arts movies, but then I guess it boils down to the fact that they won't do a pure Martial Arts film until they see a film about Martial Arts, but featuring few fights, make money but then it won't. There are too many cowards in Hollywood.
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Hollow and Menace, the movies, left me cold. Visually stunning no question. That's the comparison I meant. They were just bad in an overall sense. I mean, it's just that I do expect a coherent plot to work some way into a movie. Seriously, even Blodsport had a plot. Same thing with the First Mortal Kombat movie. It was very simple but it made sense in an elementary way to serve the action set pieces. I saw no reason for at least 3 or 4 of the beheadings in Hollow and the way they disposed of Casper Van Dien is a crime. Talk about pissing away a character that SHOULD'VE added a whole lot more to the picture--But I digress...Back to Jet Li...I liked the Black Mask a whole lot. Not much in terms of plot but, again, it made sense. And lots of excuse for action. That's all I ask from these sort of films yet it seems remarkably difficult for Hollywood to make one. I don't know why.
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The Oakland, CA school board wanted to help teachers communicate better with their "inner city, urban, blah blah blah" students...because the kid's dialectical slang was to the point where the teachers, generally, didn't know what the fuck they were saying. The plan was to teach the teacher's the students slang ("ebonics") so they could better understand one another. (personally I always found the idea humorous of Miss Appleby coming to her first day of school and saying "Wassup wassup wassup? Where my niggaz at?" etc...sorry.)
The media got this all wrong and tore them to pieces.
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anyways... Im Big Daddy Muffla and i'm new here. I'm a huge fan of Jet LI, he kicks major ass. I own about 15 of his movies and i've seen almost all of them (SWORDSMEN 2 KICKS A$$). this movie looks to KICK MAJOR ASS. I don't know why this guy is ranting about little details... It's a JET LI movie for christs sakes! See it for the wushu! anyways, im out.
PS:If you want a good Jet flick, see High Risk. -
From now on can we skip the following: "opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one?" Why not "OALAHEHO." Oh-walla-hee-hoe.
That's just my opinion and you know... -
What da PHUCK!!!!!! Jet Li is a bad boy, please don't tell me dis movie isn't gonna do him justice?! Why? The trailer looked good, but I have to admit, some of the moves looked a bit crap! e.g. Russell Wongs kick in the club..hanging on a wire as he kicks one guy only to spin 180% and kick another guy on the otherside..whilst staying in the same place????I dunna what to expect now, had high hopes for this one! jets made so many good movies (got all of em) and I have to say Fist of Legend is one of his best!!!! I dunna what da fuss about High Risk is about...jackie Cheung had more fights than Jet! I'd say watch My Father is A Hero! Jet does some major damage in dis flick!!!
Common u peeps at Warner Bros...sort it out!! do whateva u have to do to make RMD a bad boy movie!! Make Jet reshoot some scenes if u have to man....MORE SCREENTIME FOR JET!!!!!!!!!!
check out my site
http://www.jet-li.co.uk
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see, with comments like the one above, i'm sure very few of the posters here regarded that little joke as racist in any way. it's loosely akin to the statement "you all look alike." (i'm not mad in any way as i may or may not be chinese; i'm just trying to make a point) anyway, i digress. take a look here for "scientific" views of ebonics... http://www.stanford.edu/~rickford/papers/EbonicsInMyBackyard.html http://www.cal.org/ebonics/
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Hey I worked 3 gruelling months making that movie, as much as I hated the fact that we shot the mercedes/motobike chase for 3 weeks due to vancouver rain. I love the hat, and all the neat gifts. Joel Silver come back to vancouver
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Sorry, couldn't resist a bad martial arts joke. A better movie (and book) on wushu is "Iron And Silk" which is a true story and actually stars the author, Mark Salzmann. I've always regarded wushu as a "soft art" and therefore somewhat useless for the "kicking of ass". Folks, here's a news flash; ALL OF THE STUFF IN A MARTIAL ARTS MOVIE IS CONTRIVED CRAP. Chuck Norris is pushing 60 and while he can still kick major ass, doing martial arts for film and NOT getting injured or injuring your stunt folks is HARD WORK. If you watch Walker closely, you'll see that a very good Karate man named Chip McGinnis is doing some of the reverse spinning hook kicks and other heavy duty moves. As for a "real" fight between martial artists being boring....no, it would be too short...or go to the ground until someone gave up or went to sleep in a choke hold. That's what happens where I live (and fight.)I've never seen ANY movie portray ANY fighting realistically. In real life, it's short, brutal, and no fun for anyone involved.
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KS - thank you. You made excellent, correct observations regarding wushu and the arts in film. I didn't mean to imply that wushu was not of value for self defense or suffered from erectile dysfunction, but had in some cases, as you stated, ended up being done in a flashy and acrobatic fashion. And that MOST, but not all film portrayals of martial arts fighting was wirework, camera angles or speed changes (see Cynthia Rothrock's "China O'Brien movies) rather than actual combat. As to superiority of one art over another; in 25 years of study, I haven't found any Holy Grail. Personally, I have studied several arts and use a combination of karate, ju jitsu, aikido, muay thai, and plain old boxing. That said, I would also point out that I know some "pure" kung fu, karate, and ju jitsu stylists that are flat scary in their ability and power. I've pretty much thought the old adage "there are no superior arts, just superior artists" was closer to the truth and indeed never argue one over the other.
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I totally agree with what was said about this being a movie made for the American public. I'm not a Jet Li fan, I'm not a martial arts fan, but I do like action movies, and that's what I want to see. I don't care if it's realistic or not, I don't know squat about wushu, or any martial art for that matter. As for the whole ebonics debate, both sides, have good points. However, I'm just as happy that they're not using gangsta slang, whatever you wanna call it, at least us folks that don't speak like that will be able to understand what the hell they're saying.
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Hey Peter I just read your critique on RMD. Like you i'm also a harsh critique when it comes to movies. When I go and see the movie I might have the same reactions like you did execpt on one thing: you made a comment "Where's the ebonics? Do black people from Oakland generally sound so whitewashed?" I miss understood what you meant. Did you mean that why do the black americans in this movie speak proper? Why do you feel that just because there are black people in this movie, ebonics should be their way of speaking? I am a black american and I like to see black americans speak with intelligence. It sounds like your caught up in the stereotype that all black people speak ebonics. If you had no intentions of offending anyone when you made that comment... well sorry because the statement was pretty offensive to me. Let me quote you again: "Where's the ebonics? Do black people from Oakland generally sound so whitewashed? "... yep... pretty offensive.
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just some feedback on what you said -- the fighting and what not is supposed to be fast, fluid, etc... not slow and lanky like The Matrix. I guess you're a bit slow. I do agree that Jet Li isn't at his potential -- American directors are a bit hesistant about Li. If you ask me, John Woo should have been director... And if you saw some of the movies he made... All I know is that Jet Li made his mark already, even before LW4. That movie was soooooooo bogus & you know what I'm talking about.
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First off, I just wanted to qualify everything that I'm about to spout out with the statement that I'm no expert on film or sociology. I'm just your average guy that tries to observe what goes on in the world around him. I have to agree with Stormwatch and djr_3danimator that Peter's comment on Ebonics was somewhat offensive. Peter seems to feel that movies should have a certain level of realism. My question is, how do you define realism? Maybe the more important question is how does Hollywood define realism? I'm an asian male with friends and colleagues from all walks of life and while all of them identify with a heritage, none define themselves on the color of their skin. I have asian friends with Scottish accents because they lived in Scotland. I have an Indian friend with a British accent. I have black friends that speak "proper" english and feel equally comfortable speaking "ebonics" whenever they feel like. I have asian friends that speak "ebonics" too. If any of those example were to occur in a film, would that film be fake too? My point is that Hollywood, and perhaps our culture, if they reflect on one another, seems to see fit to box their ideas on the world into tight classified packages; when the world is actually a big mix of all different types of people of different color walking their own INDIVIDUAL paths. So what if black Oakland gangsters don't speak Ebonics? Does that mean that every asian actor or actress from here to eternity has to speak with asian accents for the sake of "realism" One movie that I liked was Rush Hour with Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan. I thought it was pretty cool that Jackie Chan was trying to speak slang but it was really cool when at the end, Chris Tucker busted out with Chinese. That to me is realism because it's all about people not being typecast in restrictive roles in order to fulfill the sterotypes.
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What's interesting to note is that one of the few movies in recent times that actually showcases "realistic" martial arts is probably Best of the Best. That was made somewhere between the very late 80's and early 90's -- can't recall exactly when.
It starred Philip Rhee, Eric Roberts (Julia's brother), and James Earl Jones.
I can't say that I enjoyed the sequels all that much as I enjoyed the first, but they were at least entertaining.
There weren't any offbeat techniques like jumping off walls, etc. And people all that jumping off the wall stuff isn't something new to Hollywood. They were making movies with guys running around showcasing some AMAZING acrobatic talent back in the 50's and 60's. Just take a look at any Fred Astair(sp?) movies.
And to "Azn_Pride":
*Rant On*
If LW4 was "soooooo" bogus, do you think Jet would have scored his 3 movie deal with WB?
What, you expect Jet to walk around in a movie waving the "aZyN PrYdE" flag just because you and many ignorant people like you wish he would?
Sorry, but the second you start parading your ethnicity around like it's a Big Deal, is the second you become no better than any other racist bigot in any country.
Oh yeah, I'm Chinese. But I'm not insecure in myself OR my ethnicity that I have to wave the "asian pride" flag just to be special--to be "different".
You should be proud of WHO you are.. not WHAT you are.
*Rant Off* -
Frankly, being a massive Jet Li fan myself, i dont really give a fuck what you have to say in regards to the movie itself.. since im still going to see it no matter what you say. And i dont see what all the fuss over EBONICS is about. Lets not get too carried away just on that point. I'm more concerned with Jet Li's actual on screen time which i take it most ppl are paying to see(and of course great action). With that in mind the rest of the movie doesnt really compare(with the exception of Aliyah hehe).
-
It was said:
"As for story, I was left with a very bad taste in my mouth about how Chinese were portrayed in the film. "
Oh please! Give me a break! The Chinese were portrayed just fine. It is how the blacks are portrayed that concerns me... why do all black movies have to be gangster related?
A black classical version of Romeo and Juliet would have been excellent! Not to mention a change for the better in the world of black film.
"Also, in the movie, the black mob boss is so nice and wants to do everything for his children and community (HE'S A MOB BOSS!!),"
Grab a clue, many Mob Bosses (black,irish,asian,italian, or otherwise) do what they do FOR their children!
"Where's the ebonics? Do black people from Oakland generally sound so whitewashed? "
And you have the nerve to complain about how Asians are portrayed! PLEASE!
Here's a hint, NOT ALL BLACKS SPEAK EBONICS (by the way, its a dialect not a language), and even when we do speak in SLANG (a style being stolen by white youth day by day), its not like we CANT speak english, JERK!
Get off your high horse and get a life! The movie is great, its YOUR attitude that sucks!
-
It was said:
"As for story, I was left with a very bad taste in my mouth about how Chinese were portrayed in the film. "
Oh please! Give me a break! The Chinese were portrayed just fine. It is how the blacks are portrayed that concerns me... why do all black movies have to be gangster related?
A black classical version of Romeo and Juliet would have been excellent! Not to mention a change for the better in the world of black film.
"Also, in the movie, the black mob boss is so nice and wants to do everything for his children and community (HE'S A MOB BOSS!!),"
Grab a clue, many Mob Bosses (black,irish,asian,italian, or otherwise) do what they do FOR their children!
"Where's the ebonics? Do black people from Oakland generally sound so whitewashed? "
And you have the nerve to complain about how Asians are portrayed! PLEASE!
Here's a hint, NOT ALL BLACKS SPEAK EBONICS (by the way, its a dialect not a language), and even when we do speak in SLANG (a style being stolen by white youth day by day), its not like we CANT speak english, JERK!
Get off your high horse and get a life! The movie is great, its YOUR attitude that sucks!
-
You talk about Jet Li as he should be like Reeves in the Matrix but we asian are good and we can do almost as good without the science or the cheating of computers....
Have you seen most all the Jet Li's movies???
I have, and proudly, I owned them all....
HUH!! did you need an update??
And on your comment about Black talking ebonics... let me tell you something... why are you trying to talk the way they do?
@ least they sound good!
HUH!! Did you need an update?
Moron
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