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Massa Shrugs!

Hola all. Massawyrm here.

This is why wealthy industrialists should stay the fuck out of the arts.

It is the year 2016. Gas costs $37 a gallon. The Dow has dropped to 4000. Railroads are the most efficient form of transportation once again. Congress has gotten its shit together and can pass legislation in mere hours and does so against the will of the wealthy monopolists who they are publicly dismantling. Money can’t buy influence. America hates innovation. And the suits in Washington concern themselves with the manufacturing sector rather than shuffling money around in the markets. Yes. ATLAS SHRUGGED is pure science fiction.

And it is a film impossible to separate from the politics surrounding it. Independently financed and distributed, the producers turned to the Right Wing media machine to push it rather than other conventional methods with good reason – it is shameless propaganda woefully out of touch with a world 55 years older than at the time of its source's writing.

Ultimately, its ideas are only going to connect with the already converted; it is a sermon that will only bring the choir back and do nothing to fill the church next Sunday.  The producer’s goals to make a film to introduce a new generation to the philosophy of Ayn Rand have failed miserably. Instead, he’s created the world’s worst strawman argument, a film that – with the deletion of a few choice lines – would actually skewer the powers that be pushing this film. Sean Hannity recently called this the movie “liberal Hollywood doesn’t want you to see.” That’s because they’re liberals, Sean. They have hearts. And no one deserves this. No one except the people who somehow think they’re sticking it to the man by seeing it.

The film is a meandering mess that has no idea what story it is telling. While I understand the notion of wanting to turn a 1300+ page book into a trilogy, the only way to make that work is to make sure that first chapter has its own three act structure rather than a slaphappy dash of everything you’ll need to understand a second (as yet unmade) movie. Here, entire scenes exist only to drive the film’s dogmatic adherence to its own philosophy – even in the face of reason – and the already stunningly dull narrative gets bogged down in even more ludicrous conversations that will sound profound only to the dullest of minds. ATLAS SHRUGGED is relatively plotless – a seemingly endless string of scenes of maneuvering against an enemy that just doesn’t make any fucking sense at all.

The antagonists here don’t seem to have any rational motivation. They are cartoons – the type of people who you hear about in mindless political rants screamed by fringe dwelling, tin foil hat wearing lunatics. The villains are hand wringing bureaucrats and conspiratorial lobbyists hellbent on the diabolical dismantling of prosperity in America for the sake of…get this…not themselves, but the PEOPLE! DUN! DUN! DUNNNNNNNNN!

I certainly understand the desire to want to lash back at the more culturally prevalent philosophy of “we’re all in this together”, especially when your core philosophy is “Every man for himself.” But when a film comes along and paints liberals as sinister cigar smoking fat cats, feasting on opulent dinners and in all ways acting like Libertarian corporatists until the revelation that their dirty backroom politics are for the good of “the people” and “the nation” and they won’t seemingly be getting much real gain out of it at all…I have to wonder: what the fuck were they thinking? Who seriously believes this shit? The only people who think that there really are a group of people out there who are altruistically evil are only going to see this if their meds don’t knock them out too early and the home their kids abandoned them in has a shuttle service.

Seriously, who the fuck thought they were going to make money off a film selling tickets at senior citizen prices? No one under the age of fifty is even going to be able to understand the world presented here. It is a United States shut off from the rest of the world, in which nobody seems to use computers  and Congress acts seemingly on the whims of a few people who want nothing more than to destroy wealth. It doesn’t make a lick of god damned sense. It is an elaborately constructed fantasy that falls apart the minute the audience begins asking *very simple* questions.

The film hinges on the idea that when a wealthy steel magnate designs a new type of steel that will facilitate heavier trains moving faster and a railroad baroness tries to use them to replace a crumbling, 100 year old line prone to train derailments, a group of bureaucrats decide that this is unfair competition to all the existing steel companies and must be stopped – for the good of the country. Never once does anyone mention that if this steel works, it will create an untold amount of jobs as every railroad in the country gets updated and countries around the world demand the importation of this new steel…because that would undermine the point of the whole movie. Because it is a notion from a time before the military industrial complex took hold, before government became tied into corporate welfare, before computers and cellular technology made globalism a reality. It is a horror film for people with more money than sense, painting them as heroes against a monolithic Robin Hood-style government that seeks nothing but to steal from them and give to the shiftless masses.

Lazy made-for-television production values mixed with community theater dialog and even worse performances make for a film no one will believe five years down the road was ever actually shown in theaters. Dyed in wool Randians will certainly be able to follow along with their copy of the home game, but the philosophy is so poorly presented that I’d be surprised if it won over a single convert. For a movie so dedicated to innovation and the exaltation of the creative, this is nothing but a sad imitation by the mediocre  – a cinematic pissing on Ayn Rand’s grave as her ideals are distorted for cheap political points.

If you find a copy of this sitting around anywhere, do yourself a favor: set it on fire.

Until next time friends,


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Readers Talkback
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  • April 16, 2011, 3:24 p.m. CST

    right wingers are not known for their imagination.

    by claxdog

  • April 16, 2011, 3:33 p.m. CST


    by silentjay

    Yeah Clax, that Lincoln guy had no insight.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:35 p.m. CST

    oh boy

    by Bang!_Your_Dead

    Let the endless left vs right bitching begin.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Nice, simple takedown, Massa.

    by rbatty024

    The thin with Rand's philosophy is that all you need to do is pull one string and it all falls apart. You don't need to write 1300 pages to rebut her because her ideas are so flimsy that it takes a lot less effort to dismantle them then it takes for her to create them.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Lincoln wrote movies?

    by claxdog

  • April 16, 2011, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Enough about politics

    by LethargicJ

    I'm so tired of every review getting bogged down in the politics of this movie. Doing that is completely missing the main issue with this movie. That it is literally one of the worst movies ever made. The fact that this got any release whatsoever is amazing. It makes Gigli look like a masterpiece. It is beyond terrible. If this was made a few decades earlier we all would've seen it on MST3K.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:43 p.m. CST

    altruistically evil?

    by Ingeld

    I think you meant intrinsically.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Was this made by FOXNews Films?


  • April 16, 2011, 3:46 p.m. CST

    I'll watch it

    by Chest_Rockwell

    but they'll not get any $$ from me. Kind of like I did with Battlefield Earth.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:46 p.m. CST

    Everything is a Meritocracy breaks down...

    by micturatingbenjamin

    When you put religion and family into it. Religion says, ostensibly, that we should help the least among us. Families do this instinctively. Ayn Randian philosophy dictates that the people who can't or won't fend for themselves are 'leeches' or 'takers'. The amounts Bill Gates gives away to things like malaria in foreign countries research would blow the minds of the Randian followers today. Meh. The trailer makes it look like crap. Glad someone whose opinion I can throw in with agrees that the book has a cover for a reason in this case. I won't say people shouldn't see it, because there's room out there for everyone to tell their story. I just think mean spirited work ethic bullshit is still just mean spirited work ethic bullshit. MB

  • April 16, 2011, 3:47 p.m. CST

    Lincoln's the guy who set them dark colored people free right?

    by Dharma4

    Oh, so so sorry. That was my racist, redneck bi-polar side, Garry the Sable Guy. I'll control him next time. Promise.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:47 p.m. CST

    I thought Ayn Rand was interesting when I was 19...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...anyone who takes her seriously after the age of 22 is a moron.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:48 p.m. CST


    by smatt584

    Yeah, the Gettysburg Address was originally planned as an ABC miniseries. Shit fell through, so Lincoln snagged the rights...and the rest was history.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:49 p.m. CST

    Liberal Hollywood is a bunch of douchey posers. Case in point, Sean Penn.

    by The Krypton Kid

  • April 16, 2011, 3:50 p.m. CST

    No, ingeld

    by Massawyrm 1

    The characters are presented as being evil for altruistic reasons. Once you can wrap your mind around that, you will understand my sheer befuddlement at the presentation.

  • ...and a bull-goose fucking loony.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:51 p.m. CST


    by smatt584

    No he means altruistically. As in doing evil for the good of others. Like "evil generosity", it Is a bit contradictory.

  • I don't remember anyone bitchin' when Sony (those electronics manufacturers) made Spider Man. Okay, yes I do, but still. I sure can't argue with the review or get behind that philosophy, but let's be grown-ups about where most of the stuff we all talk about on this site comes from, okay? Start flaming me in 3...2...1...

  • April 16, 2011, 3:53 p.m. CST


    by Ingeld

    I have read enough to realize that you may be correct and enough to realize that I don't really want to read much of her--or see this movie.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:54 p.m. CST

    I'm altruistically horny a lot...

    by FlickaPoo's a beautiful paradox.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:54 p.m. CST

    re: massawyrm 1

    by Ingeld

    Ah yes. Brought to you by the same people who fight for peace.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:55 p.m. CST

    Shitty book deserves shitty movie for shitheads

    by Proman1984

    Looks like they got what they had coming.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:55 p.m. CST

    it's hilarious watching libertarians on cable tv orgasm

    by antonphd

    as they talk about how amazing this movie is.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:55 p.m. CST

    by grisp

    Lincoln was a right winger?? Hahahahaha.... <P> Ayn Rand was an amazing philosopher?? Hahahahaha...

  • April 16, 2011, 3:55 p.m. CST

    it's hilarious watching libertarians on cable tv news orgasm

    by antonphd

    as they talk about how amazing this movie is.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:57 p.m. CST

    What the . . .

    by Nice Marmot

    . . . boy am I out of it. Had no friggin' clue whatsoever that a film adaptation of this even being considered.

  • April 16, 2011, 3:58 p.m. CST


    by smatt584

    Very good point, although the question is really; is it peace they're fighting for?

  • April 16, 2011, 3:58 p.m. CST

    Poor rich people.


    The "People" -- the ones who work the shit jobs for rich people to buy cheap products from rich people -- are so evil!

  • April 16, 2011, 4 p.m. CST


    by Ingeld

    What they are actually fighting for is "piece." A piece of this and a piece of that. And when they have all the pieces they will be at peace.

  • April 16, 2011, 4 p.m. CST

    Does Alan Greenspan have a cameo?

    by FlickaPoo

  • April 16, 2011, 4:03 p.m. CST


    by smatt584

    but who's on first?

  • April 16, 2011, 4:11 p.m. CST


    by Ingeld

    I don't know. Third base!

  • April 16, 2011, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Can we get a review from AICN's Actual Ninja?

    by FlickaPoo

    He sees things other people don't. I'd like to hear a ninja's take on Ayn Rand and Objectivism.

  • April 16, 2011, 4:17 p.m. CST

    My senior year of high school...

    by destroytokyo

    ...growing up in ultra-conservative Orange County, CA, my friend wrote in my HS yearbook, "Read 'The Fountainhead' by Ayn Rand; it makes me think of you.". I think she meant it as a compliment. I never spoke to her again.

  • April 16, 2011, 4:19 p.m. CST

    "... if this steel works, it will create an untold amount of jobs..."

    by Speed Fricassee

    Jobs filled by who, Massa? Lazy-ass movie critics like yourself? Bet you never fulfilled a goddamn real day's worth of real work in your nicotine-infected, sugar-chugging and fucked up useless life. Have you ever contributed anything of value to society? Anything? Go ahead & defend yourself, you wet rag. It'll give me a bigger laugh than you claiming that Liberals "have hearts."

  • April 16, 2011, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Of course a bleeding heart lib wrote the article...

    by HalJordan2814

    which absolutely has not one word of objectivity in the review. It's so funny to ead the rantings of liberals who can't handle it when the other side presents THEM as the enemy for a change. Obviously, Massawyrm has never read the book. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been so quick to dismiss the message of the film. Then again, liberals have never been known to have an ounce of logic in their heads to begin with, so you can't expect a rational review on the subject at hand when said liberal is too busy writing from emotion. Thank God Harry didn't write this otherwise it would have been much worse.... much, much worse. Would rather Quint had reviewed this.

  • April 16, 2011, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Rand was the inspiration for Smaug.


  • April 16, 2011, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Objectionism, aka Scientology for rich and pseudorich atheists.


  • April 16, 2011, 4:25 p.m. CST

    Ayn Rand used to wear a dollar-sign charm on her necklace.


    That's right. Ayn Rand was a hip-hop trailblazer.

  • April 16, 2011, 4:27 p.m. CST

    Sorry, *Objectivism.


    I was mixed up because her "philosophy" is so objectionable

  • April 16, 2011, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Bottom line: Rand was a terrible writer. End of fucking story.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    The fact that her "philosophy" lends itself to hilarious amounts of paradox (as well as piss-poor excuses for being a dickhead) is completely lost on the Becks and Hannity-ites of today. This should surprise no one.

  • April 16, 2011, 4:30 p.m. CST

    "Liberal Hollywood" and hearts

    by Hipshot

    Is just a silly thing to say. Individuals have hearts, not movements, cities, or industries. There are plenty of people in Hollywood who care deeply--I know them, have worked with them, eaten with them, and more. Others are assholes. Some are Conservative, more are Liberal. If someone thought Liberal Hollywood "has more heart" than...what, Conservative Memphis, or something? That would be equally childish. Grow up.

  • April 16, 2011, 4:31 p.m. CST

    Objectivism is what destroyed this country...

    by The_Floating_Skull_of_Robert_Loggia

    Look no further than econofraud, Alan Greenspan. Fuck Ayn Rand. Rot in hell, pretentious witch.

  • April 16, 2011, 4:33 p.m. CST

    Rand: went on Medicare and Social Security in her later years

    by MGTHEDJ

    Rand's philosophy is in it's death rattle. If overnight the industrialists left the USA for Europe or some tropical island, (sorry spoiler) and didn't use the military to occupy the USA, the 290 million left behind would say "Good Riddence, let's start to rebuild."-----later-----m

  • April 16, 2011, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Ayn Rand = Loony

    by catlettuce4

  • Oh yeah. They're selfish and stupid.

  • April 16, 2011, 4:40 p.m. CST

    Wow. Right wingers are so screwed up.

    by Mojo-Wan

    Man makes a movie review, and conservatives come in, typing with tears in their eyes and talking about his momma. All in defense of a movie they almost certainly have never seen.

  • April 16, 2011, 4:42 p.m. CST


    by Darth_Kong

  • April 16, 2011, 4:43 p.m. CST

    Let's be realistic...

    by crashcow

    Most of you nerds can't even agree on what makes a good Star Wars movie. Who in the world is going to take you serious when it comes to the national and global impact of Industry? You're a movement of lazy fuck-ups! Stick to writing Star Trek fan fiction and never-to-be-seen comic book rip-offs and leave real problems to real people. That goes for internet critics, too. If you really were on top of things...would you honestly be doing this? Go cover Thor or something...

  • April 16, 2011, 4:43 p.m. CST

    Massa Shrugged?

    by Ho Chi Ming

    Shrugging implies indifference or uncertainty. Massa isn't shrugging. He's too outraged. Outraged that elite" liberals" would be actually portrayed on screen as..."sinister cigar smoking fat cats, feasting on opulent dinners and in all ways acting like Libertarian corporatists until the revelation that their dirty backroom politics are for the good of “the people” and 'the nation' "... Who could possibly imagine THAT? However, anybody even casually acquainted with reality knows that elite liberals live exactly like "corparists". Do the names Soros, Pelosi, Obama, Rockefeller, and Kennedy ring a bell? Of course, they get a pass because they are in for "the people". But as Frank Herbert once observed, all revolutionaries are closet aristocrats. I never cared for Rand and I won't be spending money to see her cracked crystal ball vision of the future.But she did nail one thing-she accurately called out the posers in our society who claim they are in it for the "folks" but are only really in it for their own personal power and ambition.

  • April 16, 2011, 4:47 p.m. CST

    Who is Johnny G?

    by Kraven Morehead

    I like Rand but her idealistic tone can be a problem for suspension-of-disbelief. Books that lean more on a message than their narrative can be a problem to adapt as well. Look no further than Rand's "The Fountainhead" and that has Gary Cooper and Patricia Neal in it. Previews to this film look like one of those Kirk Cameron christian films that are so high on their message that they forget their story is unwatchable.

  • April 16, 2011, 4:49 p.m. CST


    by smatt584

    Only over generalizing ass-hats will make broad statements about "liberals" and "conservatives". Even left and right wing comments are ignorant at best. Bitch about a person, not a category. We've all met liberals that are not whiny bitches and We've all met conservatives who would not kill a man for fossil fuel. These are real world issues, so how about we treat them realistically. Bitch and moan all you want about the director, screenwriter, or producer of this film, but leave the hyperbole at home for once you fucking douchebags. And this is coming from a man who loves him some hyperbole. Shit is tired, save it for something that doesn't matter, politics cost people lives so try to think like rational fucking human beings.

  • April 16, 2011, 4:50 p.m. CST

    The richest 1% of America owns 42.7% of the wealth.

    by Huey_Freemans_afro

  • April 16, 2011, 4:52 p.m. CST

    they should rename it "Greed is a Virtue"

    by Chain

  • April 16, 2011, 4:57 p.m. CST

    Saw it last night and enjoyed it immensely

    by KnightShift

    Should mention that I only read the novel for the first time a month and a half ago. I thought it was a very good and elegant adaptation for what they had to work with. I'll also mention that I enjoy the heck out of Massawyrm's reviews and though disagreeing with him on this one, I can't but have plenty of respect for him. Heck, I don't agree with EVERYTHING that Rand had as her philosophy, but that's fine too. Anyhoo, if the audience I saw last night is any indication (HUGE variety of ages, genders and ethnicity in a sold-out house) this could become a sleeper hit.

  • So much so that even the suggestion that they should slow down is decried as Stalinism. Now the common man stuggles to make ends meet while the giants we've built around us hoard the money and yell down "You should just work harder!"

  • April 16, 2011, 4:59 p.m. CST

    If you are "right-wing" you're a fucking idiot

    by golden tribw

    But keep crying about this review you bunch of laughable Medieval pussy-bigots. Go whine about the socialization of healthcare or some other retard-Right bogeyman to the brainless fucks dumb enough to commiserate with you. "Waaaah liberals." Laugh. Your kind is practically extinct, it will take two more generations max.

  • They've already won, and, yet, they want more.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:01 p.m. CST

    so massa is advocating the burning of things he doesn't agree with

    by Raskolnikov_was_framed

    how very 1930s of him

  • April 16, 2011, 5:03 p.m. CST

    goldentribe you need conservatives

    by Raskolnikov_was_framed

    who else is going to have sex to make the baby you and your partner are gonna adopt?

  • April 16, 2011, 5:06 p.m. CST

    raskolnikov, you've proven the "bigot" part, got anything else?

    by golden tribw

    I've met chimps that weren't as dumb as you.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:07 p.m. CST

    For those in the cheap seats...

    by Massawyrm 1

    I'm AICN's resident Republican. Go ahead - type in the words Massawyrm and Republican into Google. I'll wait. far right wing jagoffs were saying?

  • April 16, 2011, 5:09 p.m. CST

    My review of ATLAS SHRUGGED, PART 1

    by KnightShift if anyone's interested.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Aintitcool performs a service

    by Ho Chi Ming

    When the cream in our society rises to the top, how will the milk feel about it? Reading this talkback explains it all too well.

  • Or that they're Chinese peasants? I'm confused. Your bon mot lacked sufficient logical underpinnings.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:11 p.m. CST

    Oh, and, uh CHOPPED.


  • April 16, 2011, 5:11 p.m. CST

    Hey Choopah. It's good to see you. Hope things are well Sailor.

    by Darth_Kong

  • April 16, 2011, 5:11 p.m. CST


    by Raskolnikov_was_framed

    you've met chimps?? now who's being the bigot?...disgraceful...also way to be the 1 billionth example that liberals have no sense of humor

  • April 16, 2011, 5:12 p.m. CST

    In a couple of decades, Atlas Shrugs will be the new Reefer Madness

    by Huey_Freemans_afro

    A laughable cautionary tale in a clumsy attempt to warn a younger generation that no longer believes in the boogeyman.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:14 p.m. CST

    correction: Atlas Shrugged = Reefer Madness

    by Huey_Freemans_afro

  • only to immediately proceed to stereotype and name-call "The enemy" on the other side. Childish morons. That being said, Right wing conservatives are delusional, selfish Jesus-freak fuckheads.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:14 p.m. CST

    Things are well, kong. You?


  • April 16, 2011, 5:16 p.m. CST

    Rand was wrong, but not stupid

    by maxwello

    First things firs: I'm not defending the appropriateness of following her philosophy in the current era. That said, she was writing from the perspective of someone who had barely gotten out of Russia alive, where the people defining a new social order for the previously (and soon to be) oppressed were executing anybody they felt might stand in the way of the nationalization of all property. In that context, her ranting against a class of people who never actually existed in this country is at least forgivable. She lived through some of the scariest stuff seen during the 20th century outside of WWII. Who wouldn't be affected? I forgive it in the context of her trauma. That doesn't mean I agree with it, or would be willing to vouch for the psychological state of anybody who does.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:17 p.m. CST

    Anyone else pissed that they just banned online poker?

    by TheNipplesofGodReturns

    Off topic ,I know.... but god damn it I had over 1800 dollars of hard earned money in that account and they Take just like that

  • April 16, 2011, 5:18 p.m. CST



    Conservatives have sex?

  • April 16, 2011, 5:20 p.m. CST


    by Raskolnikov_was_framed

    don't worry, there will soon be off shore sites you can join that the US government can't touch, you'll have to hide your winnings in Switzerland but it's a good excuse for a european vacation

  • April 16, 2011, 5:21 p.m. CST


    by Raskolnikov_was_framed

    yeah, usually just vaginal and in missionary but they get it done...atheist conservatives like me enjoy all holes though

  • April 16, 2011, 5:23 p.m. CST


    by Massawyrm 1

    Oh for fucks sake. Look up, you silly bastard. You didn't even bother to scan the thread before posting. I'm. Not. Liberal.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:24 p.m. CST


    by Raskolnikov_was_framed

    careful Massa claims to be conservative, but being the "resident conservative" at AICN is like being the "resident liberal" at Fox's all for show and their heart really isn't in it so yeah Massa is Juan Williams

  • April 16, 2011, 5:28 p.m. CST

    Anyone who talks about "spreading wealth" is a moron

    by golden tribw

    Do you have any idea how much money has accumulated in the bank accounts of the richest 1% of people? Do you realize you are NOT one of those people so when you rant about higher taxes on the super-rich you are proving yourself to be a vacuous, sycophantic mouthpiece for the interests of people who couldn't give a fuck less about you or anyone you know? Didn't think so.

  • That's a fact Jack! Worst two term was GW Bush of course.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:29 p.m. CST


    by Massawyrm 1

    So that's your sad attempt at backpedaling? How many ad hominems you got in that bag there, sparky? Cause you clearly don't have any arguments. Weak. Ass. Shit.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:29 p.m. CST

    Read up on the Koch brothers

    by golden tribw


  • April 16, 2011, 5:31 p.m. CST

    "you've met chimps?? now who's being the bigot?" MAKES NO SENSE

    by golden tribw

    Arguing with Tea Partiers is like screaming into the abyss. I'm going to attempt to lower myself to your level for just a moment, so work with me here. I essentially stated that you are dumber than a chimpanzee. Your response was "you've met chimps?? now who's being the bigot?" How on earth would my having "met" a monkey make me a bigot!?!?

  • April 16, 2011, 5:33 p.m. CST

    massa which comment are you referring to?

    by Raskolnikov_was_framed

    also like I said to Goldentribe, relax, it's all in good fun, I just compared you to Juan Williams for christ sake, I guess I need to end every comment with *tongue in cheek* since everyone is riled up and taking themselves WAY too seriously on the talkback for a shit movie *mostly serious but also partly kidding*

  • April 16, 2011, 5:33 p.m. CST

    Scrooge McDuck in Ducktales=Animated Ayn Rand

    by Tim

    The main purpose of Ayn Rand is to make as much money you can and the result is trickle down prosperity by innovation without the meddling hands of planners, so long as you don't harm others in the process. But, that's the force of nature of survival of the fittest. Adapting to the world you live in and exploit or co-exist with those around you. I don't see any critics blasting Gordon Gecko in Wall Street for saying the same crap "greed is good".

  • April 16, 2011, 5:34 p.m. CST


    by Ho Chi Ming

    Comrades, conservatives, socialists, and rightwingers -we have FINALLY met the one "Republican" in the country who was ladygaga over Michael Moore's Capitalism "documentary". Well, its our beloved Massa! High fives all around! Now, we know why he is the "resident" Republican. That said, I'm the one "Democrat" who has a has a life-size statue of Richard Nixon pissing on Obama in my backyard. Really, I do. If you don't believe me, google it.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:35 p.m. CST


    by Massawyrm 1

    Well, as long as it was a favorable comparison with Juan Williams...

  • April 16, 2011, 5:36 p.m. CST


    by Raskolnikov_was_framed

    just reread my comments...not a single ad hominem attack in there...I don't think that term means what you think it means...unless of course you considered my blanket statement about all "token" liberals and conservatives to be an ad hominem attack, which we can debate if you'd like but I'll just let you know, it wasn't... PS. what was I backpeddling from exactly?

  • April 16, 2011, 5:37 p.m. CST

    Bush senior gets my vote for worst one term President...


    Carter was a great president, then Ronnie started the downfall of this country. BTW, mark my words, there will be another four years for Obama. Especially if the Republicans are dumb enough to back someone like Palin or Michelle Bachman, you can bank on it.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:38 p.m. CST

    of course it was favorable

    by Raskolnikov_was_framed

    Juan Williams is the secret I am not a fan of NPR and they sold him down the river so everything that is happening to them now is karma

  • April 16, 2011, 5:40 p.m. CST

    Massa, the "I'm a Republican" thing.

    by OutsideChance

    Okay. I'll take your word for it. And I think you're the best reviewer at AICN. So if you say the movie is bad in a narrative sense, I'm inclined to take your word for it. From what I've seen, yeah, the film looks cheap and uninteresting. However, over the years I've known a few people I call "Republicans Butts." They preface things with "I'm a republican, but" and then go on to bash republicans on some pretty basic core republican principles. Some people call them RINOs. Why do I bring this up? When you make comments like "they’re liberals...they have hearts" and throw around terms like "the Right Wing media machine" you sound exactly like one of those "republican butts"/RINOs. I'm also a little surprised that you'd single this film out for strawman arguments and caricatures. Again, while not defending this movie, one could just as easily say that 90% of the movies that come out of Hollywood do the same thing from a liberal perspective (see every movie and TV show over the past thirty+ years where the villain is a middle aged white guy who works for a big corporation). Finally, I have to point out that one of the things you find so fantastical about the movie (that a genius invents something and the government wants to shut it down and/or take it over) is one of the main plot points of Iron Man 2. And while we all know that movie had its flaws I don't remember anyone saying that was one of them. So why is it somehow so far-fetched in this movie? Again, telling us the movie is poorly made and told is legitimate criticism and probably accurate. But when you go on about how the premise of the movie/book is bad because (paraphrase) the government would never do something like that, you appear to be letting your (suspected) politics cloud your critical judgment.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:40 p.m. CST

    ok...gotta go watch the Bruins game

    by Raskolnikov_was_framed

    catch you crazy kids later

  • April 16, 2011, 5:41 p.m. CST

    I have to admit that Ayn Rand was a fucking fantastic lay.


    Two naked people in single-minded pursuit of their own self interest can set a bed on fucking fire, and after all those years of smoking her tongue was rough like a cat's. My wood is pulling to the right a little just thinking about it.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:44 p.m. CST

    But how do the rich make this money that'll trickle down?


    By taking it from the laborers. Oh, and who are the rich and powerful but people who plan and meddle?

  • They fight to not pay a fair share of taxes while public services have to fight for survival.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:48 p.m. CST

    Trickle-Down Economics is a golden shower.


  • April 16, 2011, 5:52 p.m. CST

    Carter was a great president? Are you high?

    by OutsideChance

    Putting aside the economy going into the shitter under his watch, and the bungling of the hostage crisis, this is the same guy who armed the Taliban in the first place, cozied up to the Saudis, fucked up a regime change in the middle east (in his case, Iran) and destabilized the region for decades...ll the things that people (sometimes correctly) fault Bush Jr for.

  • No more than the multi-million dollar bonus of a Chase CEO.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:55 p.m. CST

    outsidechance: Good call.


    I actually am high!

  • April 16, 2011, 5:59 p.m. CST


    by dukeroberts

    I have also read many of your reviews and writings over the years and fail to see how you are a Republican. It seems it may have just been an unfortunate sobriquet hoisted upon you during an unsuccessful drinking game. "You lose, Massa! You're the resident Republican!" If I ever read anything from you in the future that smacks of anything resembling in any way the (how did you put it?) "right wing jagoffs", I will apologize. Until that day I will consider my own idea of the origin of your "resident Republican"-ness the true and accurate one. All that being said, regardless, I am a fan.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:59 p.m. CST


    by Massawyrm 1

    I detest the word RINO with the fire of a thousand suns. It's a nasty word used by ideologues against the philosophers of the party. The problem with the party right now is that the Right Wing has changed the focus away from the Republican philosophy towards a strict ideology that occasionally comes into direct conflict with the party's original beliefs. It's not enough to be for states rights and self-governance, a balanced budget, a strong defensive military, a strict reading of the rights enumerated by the Constitution, and a belief in personal responsibility - you have to instead hold specific views on abortion, regulation of the financial markets, evolution in schools, global warming, gay marriage, the invasion of Muslim countries, and wavering views on the invasion of privacy and trampling of civil rights depending on the party of the President in office. RINO is a word used to split the party from being what it once was - a collection of very different individuals who all shared a belief in the same style of government - and turn it into a body that simply opposes everything the Democratic party is for. RINO is a word used by people who either have forgotten what Republican means or never understood it to begin with. You will note that there isn't a single critique of Rand's philosophy in this review - only the film's presentation of it. I had to write enough papers on her views in college that I certainly didn't want to write about them here.

  • April 16, 2011, 5:59 p.m. CST

    Ayn Rand was a HUGE influence on Terry Goodkind, that's why his books FUCKING SUCK.

    by Stereotypical Evil Archer

    Hegel, now that was a philosopher!

  • April 16, 2011, 6:02 p.m. CST

    You'll never get a Randian to give you head.


    They make it hard. The least they can do is swallow. But nooooo.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:02 p.m. CST

    huey_freemans_afro: money & bank accounts

    by golden tribw

    I'm not sure if you misunderstood me or I'm misunderstanding you now. My point was that there are a lot of really sickeningly rich people in the United States and they do absolutely nothing for anyone else beyond spending money on advertising to get the Tea Party chimps all riled up, which succesfully mobilizes those poor, brainwashed troglodytes to get out their lawn chairs and descend upon [political event XYZ] screaming about evil government intervention and proclaiming lower taxes for all . . . . They are mindless mouthpieces for Big Oil, for the Koch Brothers, for all kinds of ridiculous Conservative/Republican interests who could not give a flying fuck about any of the Tea Party grunts. It's rather paradoxical, and if it weren't so tragic it would be bleakly, darkly hilarious. I certainly did not suggest that the CEOs deserve their paycheques, so I can't tell why it sounds like you're disagreeing with me.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:05 p.m. CST

    Bernie Madoff: Randian


    He was just acting out of rational self-interest, no?

  • At that level, is it even considered capitalism anymore? These people have been writing their own meal tickets and feeding themselves without regulation for a VERY long time. How's minimum wage working out for you guys who are on it, btw?

  • April 16, 2011, 6:06 p.m. CST

    Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand: the parents of the 21st century


    And you are all ants in the afterbirth.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:08 p.m. CST

    I laughed.

    by Bob

    Reading through all the little right-winger explody-head rage on here is some of the funniest stuff I've read in days. Ayn Rand was a terrible writer, just like L. Ron Hubbard was a terrible writer and huckster scam artists. This movie is terrible, but not for it's politics. Some books should never be made into movies. Now excuse me, I have to go watch Battlefield Earth again.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:08 p.m. CST


    by Massawyrm 1

    I highly recommend checking out my HAPPY FEET review followed immediately by my CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY review. If you still think what you do, so be it. But I think it might change your mind a bit.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:10 p.m. CST

    The movie

    by dukeroberts

    I saw some clips from the movie and it looks pretty awful. Like Facing the Giants awful. Like Left Behind awful. Regardless of those movies' poor telling and poor writing, they were cheaply made with little regard for good production values. If Conservatives supposedly run all of the studios, why are there never any good Conservative movies made? Most of the good movies are liberal message movies made by liberals, nuanced for mass consumption. For some reason we Conservatives aren't able to do that. It bums me out.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Oh, and those "meddling planners" really got in Madoff's way, huh?


    The SEC was too lazy, incompetent and corrupt to do anything. Why? Because the "state" Randians claim to fear was long ago bought and infiltrated by the John Galts of the world acting out of their rational self-interest.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:12 p.m. CST

    You say "to-may-to," I say "to-mah-to."


    You say "Objectivist," I say "criminal."

  • Yep, somebody had to bring of Ron Paul. He named is Senator son RAND!

  • Chew on this article hypocrites.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:16 p.m. CST


    by dukeroberts

    I will happily search for the reviews you mentioned. I liked Happy Feet to a point. It was all kind of touchy-feely-greeny, but the end just pissed me off with that news guy hitting us over the head with the message. I didn't even bother watching Capitalism. I was through with that tub o' lard after that Fahrenheit shit. Actually, Bowling for Columbine was the last one of his I saw. "Best Documentary", my ass!

  • April 16, 2011, 6:17 p.m. CST

    Massa, as a card carrying pinko commie Prequel loving democrat...

    by StarWarsRedux

    ...I respect and applaud your sticking true to calling yourself a Republican, no matter what your party has morphed itself into over the years. I wish that my own party had the balls to stick with its principles, rather than keep acquiescing to the center again and again until American democracy all but loses its ambidextrous nature altogether. <p> <p>I tried reading "Atlas Shrugged" many moons ago. I figured it'd be worth watching if they made it into a miniseries, preferrably on cable, where you could get away with Rand's tendency for borderline rape sex-scenes a little easier.

  • Straw man argument if I've ever seen one. Somebody needs to grow up.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:20 p.m. CST


    by JumpinJehosaphat

    In today's Tea Party-driven GOP, conservatism is represented by a collection of panicky, intrusive busybodies who actually feel it is the government's business who you have sex with. Jobs? No time! You should all be afraid of science and Muslims! I don't call myself a Republican anymore simply because I can't get on board with what the Christian right has done to the party. I can't think of too many members of congress that would actually stand for what I believe. I certainly don't feel well represented here in Texas, which is a shock.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:20 p.m. CST

    L.Ron Hubbard

    by Hipshot

    Was a decent enough pulp writer before he went all Thetan on us. Robert Heinlein considered him a friend and a solid writer, and Heinlein was nobody's fool. The books he wrote at the end of his life were overblown swollen and turgid...but once upon a time he was in the top 10% of the pack.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:23 p.m. CST

    Yeah, Massa, I actually hated bring up the term RINO

    by OutsideChance

    ...because I agree there is a certain segment of the GOP that really, really, overuses it (see, for example, pretty much everyone on "Free Republic"). I know a few of them that now ever go on about how-of all things-National Review is a RINO magazine. But there is a particular type of person who claims to be a republican and then starts blathering on and never says a single thing that's even remotely in line with even mainstream republicanism. And, to be honest, while I agree with you about the ridiculous need of some people to eschew the big tent for the party line, you're doing a hell of a better job listing all the things wrong with pretty much EVERY aspect of the party than you are explaining what you DO agree with. In addition, while you may not have directly attacked Rand's philosophy (which, as we both know is by no means mainstream republican) when you attack the basic premise of her most personal work as "it'll never happen"...well, how's that different? And, as I said before, what makes it unbelievable in this and not in, say, Iron Man? And why are strawman arguments and cliched cardboard villains such a sin here and not ever other movie you review that just happens to be written from a center-left perspective? Again, I want to make clear I'm not defending this movie since I haven't seen it. My issue here is that you seem to be pouring an extreme amount of politics into the review (and politics that seem to contradict what you say you are) into a review that could, and should, be about the artistic merits. Really, at best, all that does is throw red meat into the talkback. As I mentioned before, your the best reviewer this site has. And part of that's because you're capable of writing a review without jamming it full of off topic personal stuff. And another part of it is that you can usually explain why the work itself is bad without resorting to condemning the film's potential audience. Maybe it wasn't your intent but this particular review comes off less as a review of the film and more a review of "the right wing."

  • April 16, 2011, 6:26 p.m. CST

    If you don't think that this can happen

    by Shoehanger

    then you are sorely mistaken. There is a lot of possible truth in this film.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:28 p.m. CST

    "Richest 1%"

    by darthvedder81

    That "richest 1%" bullshit is always hilarious to me. Even if I buy some of those dubious stats the "richest 1%" also pay the overwhelming majority of income tax, own businesses that employ thousands and thousands of people, and buy all kinds of goods and services made by average Joes thus bettering their lives and the lives of their families. "Income equality" is a pipe dream and every nation that has attempted it has at best become irrelevant and insolvent and at worst murdered or starved millions of people. It's also immoral. Unless it can be proven in a court of law that the "rich" are literally stealing from you what right do you have to petition the government to give you their wealth? How is that different from mugging someone outside their Brentwood home?

  • ...a movie based on her novels on "artistic merits" alone? The books are delivery systems for her philosophy and little more.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:38 p.m. CST

    Massa I looked at both of the reviews you cited

    by OutsideChance

    And here's the funny thing. In each of them you seem to bend over backwards to talk about how you really think liberals are good people and conservatives are horrible creatures that have ruined your republican party. Yeah, you give a few examples of how SOME liberals are asshats but then you make sure to go on about how terrible Fox News is, etc. Now, maybe you're just one of those guys who bends over backwards trying to be fair to "the other side." Okay. If that's the case, that's admirable. But if that IS the case why not do the same thing to the segment of the GOP that, while they are sometimes wrong, might also be doing so from good (if malinformed) intentions?

  • April 16, 2011, 6:39 p.m. CST

    Who the fuck wants complete income equality?


    If you earn your riches, then good. But when people with riches rig the system unethically at the expense of others' opportunities, then that's a fucking problem.

  • the only solution to income about just a little less inequality? The income gap is the highest it's been in nearly a century...since the time of robber barons. Social security for the elderly, minimum wage, overtime pay, these were all attempts to balance the equation just a little. Hell, the Estate or Death Tax that Republicans hate so much was set up to keep the wealthy from accumulating riches generation after generation and eventually becoming a new aristocracy.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:48 p.m. CST


    by zer05um

    She wasn't even that - she certainly didn't have the guts to stick by her own thinking when the going got tough. She was claiming every benefit she could at the end of her husband's life, but was so weak that she had a social worker actually file the claims in case some of her followers found out. Her politics makes no sense in a 21st century context, and barely made any sense when she was writing. A pointless and entirely academic writer with no sensible contribution to anything beyond a very narrow and entirely artificial school of philosophy.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:50 p.m. CST

    Poppycock, Massa (or should I say Bullshit)

    by Ho Chi Ming

    There are plenty of Republicans who hold vastly different views on the issues you listed- abortion, gay rights, the wisdom of the execution of our various Middle Eastern military campaigns, global warming, etc. You are either grossly ignorant of contemporary Republicans (both officeholders and rank-and-file) or engaging in a straw man argument. Considering your love for Moore's Capitalism, I'm inclined to think the latter. I'm still wondering how anyone who asserts he supports a "strict reading of the rights enumerated in the Constitution" and the concept of "self-goverance" could enthusiastically endorse Moore's neo-Marxist critique in Capitalism. Are you really this lacking in self-awareness, Massa? As to the movie review, you claim to not take aim at any of Rand's core beliefs, only the movies presentation of her beliefs. Bullshit. Your review makes it clear that the movie DOES translate Rand's critique of elite liberals well. In both her books and this movie (apparently) elite liberals are protrayed as nothing more than the oligarchs they claim to protect us from. It is that portrayal that you most objected to. After all, "liberals have hearts". So while you claim you aren't critiquing Rand's philosophy, you attack her central point. It's okay if you don't care for her philosophy (I don't either but for different reasons), but don't pretend otherwise. Your review is political commentary masquerading as a movie review. So you aren't a RINO, huh? Hate the word, etc. You can settle this by simply listing which Republicans you believe would be better presidents than the current president. A sincere Republican, even a (I'll be kind) very nuanced one such as yourself, would be able to do this. If you can't think of any, maybe you aren't as "Republican" as you claim.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:51 p.m. CST

    republican vs. Democrat

    by smatt584

    I think some people here do not know the difference between a democrat and a republican. I mean ACTUALLY know. There are criteria to determine this, not just some quick, one-off judgements based on simple statements on a talkback. Take the test, you may be surprised! Below is one of many free typography tests found online, figure your shit out before opening your mouths about a political party! (remove spaces) http://typology. people-press. org/typology/

  • Do you think the guy who gets parachuted into CEO position at ABC Firm magically began to deserve a thousand dollars a second the moment he took the job? The guy at the top of the company does not personally employ the 6,000 people on payroll, he just occupies the top of the pyramid they're all in. Your point doesn't make any sense, and nobody anywhere in this talkback has said anything in favour of total income equality. You asked: "what right do you have to petition the government to give you their wealth?" That's funny, because I don't recall saying (or reading anyone here state) that the poor deserve cash handouts derived from the taxes on the rich. Not at all. But government programs and services (that includes wars and guns and jails if you don't put any stock in things like healthcare [ooooh, socialist evil!], education [that commie recruitment institution], and culture/arts [the exclusive province of pretentious, entitled Marxists, amirite?], let's remember) cost money, and that money has to be paid for. With taxes. Then again, I live in a country where everybody pays a little bit higher taxes and everybody gets free healthcare all the time as a result. Maybe from your "principled" right-wing standpoint that's the evil to end all evils, but I shudder to think of paying for my hospital bills and prescriptions entirely out of pocket. No wonder the US lower class is always so furious at whoever's in power.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:53 p.m. CST


    by Massawyrm 1

    Because, at the end of the day, I'm the type of person who believes that you need to clean up your own backyard before you worry about anyone else's. I can write for weeks about what I believe is wrong with the Democratic party and its ideals. But all that will do is earn high fives from the right and admonishment from the left. It does nothing. But if, as a Republican, I point out what I believe *WE* are doing wrong, I have a real chance of having a real conversation - like this one - in which I might actually be able to change some minds and get this party, in some small way, back on track.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:54 p.m. CST

    flickapoo, yeah I do.

    by OutsideChance

    First off, the movie isn't her book. It's an adaptation. Second, my beef was less with Massa critiquing the movie as the fact that he had to start in on his rant about conservatives and liberals. Third, I just find it funny that, suddenly, a science fiction movie is somehow bad because people might act a certain way under a fictional scenario, especially when dozens of other movies get a pass for doing that. For example, Massa rails about how unbelievable it is that there could ever be someone evil who believed he was doing it for altruistic purposes. I'm sure that Massa fully knows that the world is full of people-of all political stripes-who do evil things because they think it's for the greater good. As such, it's hardly simplistic and fake to show someone like that in a movie. And, while he might not have meant it this way, attacking a movie on that basis rings of politics.

  • April 16, 2011, 6:55 p.m. CST

    the_choppah, I agree with you.

    by Stereotypical Evil Archer

  • April 16, 2011, 6:56 p.m. CST

    Franklin Pierce

    by shawnh199

    Franklin Pierce still has that honor, Barry is trying hard to take that award. Lets see, destroy our ability to defend ourselves, check. Destroy our drilling industry and our economy, check. Destroy the banking industry, check. Keep blaming the former President when he can't decide what to do or keep one consistent policy, CHECK

  • April 16, 2011, 7:02 p.m. CST

    You see collectivists care about others

    by brobdingnag

    They want to help others, but not with their money of course, with your money. Its simply not good enough for them to voluntarily pool their resources and help others, YOU must be forced do it as well or be destroyed. Liberals absolutely despise true freedom. Their goal is not "to help others" but to control others. Some people earn too much. Others eat too much bad food, still others do not worship mother earth. Some even smoke cigarettes (which are inherently evil as opposed to marijuana which is not). And all of these people are far too stupid to be allowed to control their own lives. There are a select few who should make everyone's decisions for them. Anyone who does not value the lives of complete strangers as highly as their own or others the know personally, of whom they can make informed moral observations about, is stupid. The stupid (individualists) must be forced to do what the smart (collectivists) deem correct, for their own good.

  • April 16, 2011, 7:02 p.m. CST

    the real ayn

    by madCanada

    Ayn Rand was an ugly, disgusting, self-loathing power-tripping hairy dwarf cow who would have spared the world much grief had she learned use to a vibrator. Her real name was Alicia Rosenbaum. Changed it to Ayn Rand. Nuff said. Fascist Arian-wannabe-hag masochist.

  • You've even admitted as much in the past. You're not fooling anyone.

  • April 16, 2011, 7:09 p.m. CST

    Okay, Massa, fair enough.

    by OutsideChance

    But, if that's case, wouldn't it make more sense to start that discussion someplace other than AICN? Because, assuming you're a republican, that's make you, me and about, I dunno, six other people, in a sea of liberals. Whose minds do you plan on changing? Especially by calling anyone more conservative than you "jagoffs" and whatnot? I agree. Let's have a new tone here. One where we talk about liberals AND conservatives with respect. Sure, maybe Harry's ad revenue will drop from less flame wars but maybe we can accomplish a purposeful dialogue.


  • It lacks the confidence of the novel.

  • April 16, 2011, 7:14 p.m. CST

    Unhand me, you damned, dirty liberals

    by goatherdingclownhunter

    Massawyrm, I am not a big fan of Ayn Rand, but your snide broadsides against conservatives are most unwelcome. Fuck you, you snivelling, nerdy piece of shit. Apart from sitting around all day drinking Mountain Dew and writing shitty, illiterate columns about Hollywood, what exactly have you contributed to society? There are far many more useful people in the world than you, and their willingness to have real jobs is probably what irks you. It's easy to be Harry Knowles bitch. I am sure the hours are great. However, the pay probably sucks, which explains your pathological hatred for those who actually work. Go move to the projects, watch Oprah, and eat McDonalds, you greasy, Generation X loser.

  • April 16, 2011, 7:14 p.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

  • But, I warn you, it's fricking hard to get thru, just like Rand


  • April 16, 2011, 7:27 p.m. CST

    Government is bad! NO SHIT!

    by alienindisguise

  • April 16, 2011, 7:28 p.m. CST


    by Massawyrm 1

    To be fair, the "right wing jagoffs" you keep bringing up were the people who walked in and screamed LIBERAL - not simply those who are to the right of me. My parents are WAY to the right of me. They have a framed picture of them hugging Glen Beck - a family friend. I don't think they're jagoffs; just wrong.

  • April 16, 2011, 7:29 p.m. CST

    We have assumed conrol

    by charles ihnatolya

    Rand is a major influence on Neil Pert and RUSH. 2112 anybody? Collectivism doesn't work and never will. Socialism kills. Favorite Ayn Rand quip: She got a letter from one of her relatives in the USSR telling her to tell her American friends that Russia is the graveyard and it's people were the dying

  • April 16, 2011, 7:30 p.m. CST


    by byronical


  • Of course, without Yoko.

  • April 16, 2011, 7:35 p.m. CST


    by jerseycajun

    Haven't seen the movie or read the book, but it seems more than plausible and indeed likely that politicians being politicians means trying and often succeeding at being all things to all people. So it can be that a proposal in the name of 'protecting the people' can be popular while also being self-serving to the extent that the proposal will likely also skew the market to close friends or aquantences back at the home office. Don't know if that's the implausibility you're talking about, but I gotta say that even libertarians are divided on several of those polarizing issues you mentioned. Abortion is a split, and so are a number of other issues over which libertarians (not all of whom are even remotely objectivists) will engage in 'spirited' debate over. The group is loosely composed of types ranging from anarcho-capitalists, to objectivists, to classical liberals, to minarchists, to even anarcho-socialists. Not really interested in seeing the movie though. (even libertarian critics like Kurt Loder are saying it's a complete wash of the source material)I suspect a good deal of the problems in its production stem less from an industrialist financing the project as it does from the all-too-common issue in film production of having a property whose rights will expire shortly if you don't do anything with them. You know, the same issues WB is dealing with regarding the "Man of Steel" project.

  • April 16, 2011, 7:36 p.m. CST

    and pay 55% of the taxes

    by jbinminot

  • April 16, 2011, 7:37 p.m. CST

    The richest 1% pay 55% of the taxes

    by jbinminot

  • April 16, 2011, 7:39 p.m. CST


    by jbinminot a movie critic all of a sudden upset that a villain is portrayed like an evil cartoon character. They don't complain when conservatives are portrayed this way. I don't think he bitched at the Christian stereotype presented in Paul.

  • April 16, 2011, 7:46 p.m. CST


    by Massawyrm 1

    I don't think I reviewed PAUL. In fact, I know I didn't. But I have bitched about Christian and Republican cartoons in films before. Study up before talkback next time.

  • April 16, 2011, 7:47 p.m. CST


    by Massawyrm 1

    Sadly no. It's cartoonish, but mostly just boring and sad. The last shot was pretty fucking funny. But I wouldn't wait the two hours to get there.

  • Don't you know that us liberals are the artsy-fartsy, gay, pot-smoking type? Also, Massa clearly drinks Dr. Pepper, not Mountain Dew.

  • April 16, 2011, 7:52 p.m. CST

    Enough with the Iron Man 2 bullshit

    by smatt584

    The difference between Massa's argument between this movie and Iron Man 2 is so obvious it's retarded to even bring it up; Atlas has the invention of a new type of metal, while Iron Man 2 has the invention, and frequent unregulated use, of a one-man killing machine at home and abroad. Are some of you so fucking dense that you see these as the same thing? Keep the dumbass remarks and shitty comparisons for grade school lit class, some people here prefer logical arguments and comparisons.

  • April 16, 2011, 7:55 p.m. CST

    So Sad

    by Ho Chi Ming

    We have a self-described Michael Moore-loving Republican who claims to understand the values and philosophy of the "original" Republican Party who is now lamenting how his parents like Beck. Is Massa's review really about politics and politcal philosophy or about something a bit more...Freudian? By the way, Massa, you claim the "original" Republican Party was for states rights. You are absolutely 100% wrong about that one. Lincoln, the first Republican President, was against state or territorial sovereignty...thus the Civil War.The orginal Republican Party was FOUNDED on the idea of denying future states (i.e. the territories) the right to decide the slave question. The Party was right about that, of course, but please keep your narratives based on some semblance of fact. It was the Democratic Party, from its founding by Jefferson until the 1960s, who espoused "states rights". Sorry for having to bring something this academic into a discussion on aintitcool. But if you are are going to grandly write about the original philosophers of the Republican Party, you will have to forgive me for insisting you actually know a little bit about what you are talking about. By the way, Massa, since you brought it up-who are the original philosophers of the Republican Party?

  • April 16, 2011, 7:57 p.m. CST

    jbinminot: the richest 1% pay 55% of the taxes

    by lv_426

    I mean to pick no fights with you, but I can't help think of the saying, "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer." The fact that a huge amount of the nation's wealth is getting caught up in the damn built by the wealthiest beavers should be what is worrying people at this point. Also, the people who make low wages or are paid a low end salary might pay less, but compare: a couple million in taxes paid to Uncle Sam by a person making 50 or 100 million in a year, because of good lawyers/accountants and huge tax breaks vs. an average citizen paying $8,000 out of their $45,000 yearly salary Now who feels the financial sting more? Also, I am all for everyone being taxed fairly, but when the wealthy bitch and moan about their Bush era tax cuts ending while the taxes on the rest of us losers (the 95% who aren't considered wealthy) should foot the bill after the economic meltdown, well that annoys me.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:03 p.m. CST

    I just saw the trailer

    by lv_426

    This is being shown in theaters around the country? Please tell me this is a joke. This can't be real. It looks like a Lifetime network made for TV movie shot on a cheap HD video camera. Del Toro and Jim Cameron can't be trusted to make a profitable film adaptation of AT THE MOUNTAINS OF MADNESS, yet this ATLAS SHRUGGED thing gets made? Someone please wake me up. Hollywood is giving me nightmares.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:04 p.m. CST

    Okay, Massa, I will consider your point

    by OutsideChance

    At the same time, please consider this, and it will be my final point to you (other than asking "so...what's Beck like in real life?"): On a scale of conservative to liberal I'm probably the closest person on this TB to what you claim to be. Not much of a fan of the religious right, for example. If it were just you and I discussing this we'd probably have a great conversation. In fact, I think our discussion as is has been very interesting and I appreciate you taking the time to have it with me. However, AICN is, by anyone's measure, a predominantly left wing site, in terms of contributors and posters. (And, one could argue, an excellent rejoinder to the "liberals are smart" argument [I kid, guys, I kid]). So, when, even in an attempt to clean up your own backyard, you spend a significant amount of time giving "their" side a pass and arguing against your "own" side, you're not changing anyone's minds. Not only are you potentially pissing off the people here you might agree with you (as noted above, I'm pretty much on your side and I didn't appreciate the way you wrote the review) but you're more or less reinforcing the viewpoints of a lot of people on the "other" side that anyone to their right is a knuckle dragging moron. So, by all means, lets' work on cleaning up our own backyard. But maybe we don't need to air all the dirty laundry while we do it. (Now, back to that Beck question. Seriously)

  • April 16, 2011, 8:06 p.m. CST

    If you didn't review Paul...

    by jbinminot

    ...then obviously I was right, you didn't bitch about it, but maybe you should have.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:07 p.m. CST

    Yeah, this Poseidon Studio Alien kit looks Saaaweeeeeet!

    by Darth_Kong

  • April 16, 2011, 8:10 p.m. CST

    IS THIS IN 3D?

    by BringingSexyBack

  • April 16, 2011, 8:10 p.m. CST

    Liberals with hearts....hahahaha....

    by maverick68

    Liberals worship Margaret Sanger who proposed genocide against black people.....yep, Libs have hearts....

  • April 16, 2011, 8:11 p.m. CST


    by smatt584

    How much of that 55% is income tax and how much is taxation on assets that we must all pay on what we own? Of course the more assets you have, the more you pay by volume. That is not a victimization of the wealthy. I have always personally gone for income taxation by percentage. At least that is proportionate and arguably fair. Or maybe I should feel sad that the people fortunate enough to own half the country have to pay property taxes on it.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:13 p.m. CST


    by garybuseys_incisors

    The affiliation that survey attempted to put me in was very far outside of I believe politically.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:15 p.m. CST

    lv_426: Truth


    I love when I hear that stat. Of course they pay the biggest tax bill ... their wealth is exponentially greater than the millions who have less money. If anything, their collective wealth to the rest of the nation should match their tax burden. If you want to control 95% of the wealth generated through participation in this society, then cough up 95% of the tax burden. I'll gladly take my extra income and invest it in property that doesn't need to be leveraged by billionaire bankers getting fat off easy money from the Fed. Or, you rich fucks can keep bearing that collective 55% tax burden if you'll gladly accept having only 55% of the wealth.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:15 p.m. CST

    This is what bi-polar politics will get you.

    by David Cloverfield

    This talkback is terrifying. Americans are on the "You either agree with Ayn Rand, or you're goddamn communist" level already. Holy fucking shit. Keep it up and you guys will butcher each other over leftover Cheetos in a decade. (It's sad as hell, because the US is pretty cool, but the way Americans sign up to one of two pre-packaged - realities is just depressing.)

  • April 16, 2011, 8:16 p.m. CST

    I agree,

    by jbinminot

    everybody should just pay a flat tax. The rich are already paying their fair share of taxes while the welfare bums aren't paying theirs. But yet liberals want them to pay more.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:16 p.m. CST


    by lv_426

    I don't think they had a big enough budget for 3D. Either that, or their cheapo HD cameras couldn't be duct taped together properly to allow for a competent 3D presentation.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:23 p.m. CST

    Wait... Wait... This movie is real?

    by Andrew Coleman

    I saw the trailer on youtube and the person who sent it to me said it was a fake trailer. This makes The Room look like a master piece. This is what ultra conservatives want to see at the movies? Fuck this country is... Well fucked if these people take over. I mean that looked so horrible I seriously didn't think it was real. This blows me away... I mean... God help people who spend money on this film.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:23 p.m. CST


    by smatt584

    There are many out there, find a few others and try them out. Like I said, the results may surprise you. This is not a horrorscope, there are definite criteria that define republicans and democrats. I just pulled one such test at random.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:39 p.m. CST

    Massa has the right fucking idea

    by Green

    I don't give a shit if you're on the left or the right as long as you present clear thinking and cogent arguments for your point of view. Massawyrm's been straightforward about his political leanings for as long as I've been reading his column. I might not always agree with him, but at least he tries to make sense rather than spout partisan knee-jerk bullshit. As for ATLAS SHRUGGED, it was clear from the trailer that no one knew what they were doing. If you're going to put a political message in a film, at least make it a good film. Remember AMERICAN CAROL, David Zucker's born again conservative film? I remember people on National Review spouting how "this was the movie liberals don't want you to see." Well guess what -- NOBODY wanted to fucking see it. Not because it was right wing, but because it was the lamest piece of crap to be shat out of any director's butt for a decade. If you want a halfway decent Ayn Rand film -- and I emphasise HALFWAY -- King Vidor's THE FOUNTAINHEAD has it's moments, if only because the over-the-top moments are so hilarious as to make it entertaining.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:41 p.m. CST

    i find it funny partisan republicans tried to hijack libretarianism

    by awepittance

    and it completely backfired on them. Why do you think none of the 'candidates' from the republican side have official entered into the ring yet? It's because the 'tea party' core values ie: small government, constitutionalist run in complete opposition to the values of generic conservative america. What's Mitt Romney going to do, come out and say he's for closing down all military bases overseas and cut Pentagon spending in half? absolutely not, that's why the republican party has imploded because of their poor hindsight attempts to harness the energy of the tea party.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:42 p.m. CST


    by Doug Phillips

    Respect your writings on Ain't It Cool and not concerned about your politics...but that has to be the worst review I have ever read on this site. Your last comment: "If you find a copy of this sitting around anywhere, do yourself a favor: set it on fire." I know this is not meant to be literal, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, but it is very sad to see you write this about something you disagree with. And even though you say you are not attacking Rand's politics, you really are when the review is looked at as a whole.

  • i also wanted to make a clarification above. The tea party as it exists now does not represent mainstream libertarianism. There was a brief window in time where theoretically it did but that is even a stretch. It was inspired by the Ron Paul brand of libertarianism not so much by the Harry Browne / Reason mag side. Attempts by fox news and people like Stossel who try to pose as true constitutionalists will and have only back fired on them.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:49 p.m. CST

    awepittance, how is Stossel not a libertarian?

    by OutsideChance

    Sourced examples, please.

  • April 16, 2011, 8:55 p.m. CST

    Um, creepythinman, Somolia is a socialist state

    by OutsideChance

    As such, I hardly think, if it were up to Rand, "The USA would be like fucking Somalia"

  • April 16, 2011, 8:56 p.m. CST

    So you're a Republican, Massa. Hoo-fricken-ray for you...

    by HalJordan2814

    But so is McCain and he's so soft a republican they even named a toilet tissue after him. (You can figure that one out on your own.) You're not a conservative, Massawyrm. Just another RINO. And there IS a difference. You review items like a bleeding-heart lib. Facts are facts and this one (your review) is already proof positive. To quote Mark Levin "That's right I said it!"

  • April 16, 2011, 9:01 p.m. CST

    Uh...maybe the movie just sucks...

    by GeneralJackCosmo

    I mean, it has a 5% on RT. Great books are turned into shit movies all the time. Sometimes those books are escapist fantasies, other times they are cautionary tales that people care about a great deal for ideological reasons. It IS possible that the movie just blows, politics aside. Be honest and ask yourselves: how often does Hollywood adapt an all-time classic novel and actually get it right?

  • April 16, 2011, 9:02 p.m. CST


    by HalJordan2814

    The only political commentator that can wear the 70's porno moustache and make it look good. Unlike Geraldo, who just makes it look gay. "That's right, I said it!" - Mark Levin

  • April 16, 2011, 9:06 p.m. CST

    So you saw this instead of SCREAM 4, eh?

    by D.Vader


  • April 16, 2011, 9:11 p.m. CST

    Shit, gamers already know of a solid Rand critique (BIOSHOCK)

    by 5_day_forecast

    Whole damn game was an examination of how a pure Randian utopia would play out (in the game designers' view = utter clusterfuck collapse). Reason for the failure was summed up in the game: even with a society filled with the greatest artists, scientists, and innovators... someone has to clean the toilets. People in the elite levels of anything far too often consider themselves above the dirty work basics required to keep a society functioning.

  • April 16, 2011, 9:18 p.m. CST

    There's a lot of virginity in this talkback...

    by Doctor_Strangepork

  • April 16, 2011, 9:22 p.m. CST

    The trailer and the early footage for this looked TERRIBLE

    by D.Vader

    Absolutely TERRIBLE.

  • April 16, 2011, 9:26 p.m. CST

    The Iron Man 2 comparisons are hilarious

    by D.Vader

  • April 16, 2011, 9:30 p.m. CST

    Excellent book and A+ movie!!!

    by codecrackx15

    By the way... Ayn Rand's philosophy is all about individuality and that is Libertarian. So anyone calling this movie a Right wing movie is so full of shit and towards the bottom of the IQ scale that it is pathetic. When this stuff is actually happening the lazy liberals who want the nanny government to steal from the motivated so that they can survive will only have themselves to blame. Oh... wait... this stuff is already starting to happen. Liberals are all parasites with low IQ's and a need to be told what to do.

  • April 16, 2011, 9:31 p.m. CST

    I've heard Massa on filmslash podcast

    by BobParr

    You can literally hear the loogies moving around in his lungs. It's like Larry king after a Marlboro Red bender.

  • April 16, 2011, 9:32 p.m. CST


    by StarWarsRedux

    For me, the critique of objectivism in BioShock was more along the lines that on a societal scale, rampant self-interest tends to cancel itself out. Yeah, it's all well and good to say that you should live your own personal life along the lines of what makes you happy and not necessarily govern yourself according to the demands and needs of others, but there's a necessary amount of give and take to make that work for an entire community. Too much unchecked competition and you'll just get anarchy, civil war and zombies. That's no fun.

  • April 16, 2011, 9:32 p.m. CST

    Bob the Angry Flower's Classic Lit Series: Atlas Shrugged 2

    by Dennis_Moore

  • April 16, 2011, 9:34 p.m. CST

    The US Gov. would destroy any innovation

    by BobParr

    If they didn't get their cut of the money first.

  • April 16, 2011, 9:35 p.m. CST

    @ creepythinmanlives

    by Dennis_Moore

    Off -topic but is your handle in reference to Metropolis? Just wondering.

  • April 16, 2011, 9:39 p.m. CST

    Rand is porn for corporate America....

    by Jobacca

    And retards.

  • April 16, 2011, 9:42 p.m. CST


    by smatt584

    I really hope you're sterile

  • April 16, 2011, 9:42 p.m. CST

    creepythinmanlives (and other liberal wackos)

    by BobParr

    Being angry at Dick Cheney won't change the fact that your daddy didn't love you. You guys are way too friggen angry.

  • April 16, 2011, 9:43 p.m. CST

    In honour of the "Free Market"...

    by s0l

    ...Capitalists so dearly love. I plan to embrace the "free" part when i watch this movie... *heads over to PirateBay...*

  • April 16, 2011, 9:43 p.m. CST

    Tired of masturbating to Mein Kampf?

    by Jobacca

    Theres always the brilliant and sexy works of Ayn Rand!!!

  • April 16, 2011, 9:46 p.m. CST

    Ayn Rand's not dead....

    by Jobacca

    She just stopped hiding her penis and changed her name to Michael Savage.

  • April 16, 2011, 9:53 p.m. CST


    by BobParr


  • April 16, 2011, 9:55 p.m. CST

    re: outsidechance: he might actually be one off the clock

    by awepittance

    but when he's on Fox News business, just like the other faux libretarian show 'Freedomwatch' it caters very much to the narrative of the republican party. While they are probably more critical on a whole than most other shows of BOTH parties, they can't escape the pull of the republican party through the proxy of fox news. for example just look at the guests Napalitano has on his show he interviews people like Ron Paul and Alex Jones while he talks a big game about how he thinks the whole federal government is corrupt. Then in the same episode he'll have lackee establishment republican 'Rinos' as some call them be on ie: Huckabee and play complete softball with them. How can one stick to libretarian values when treating republicans who are part of the problem like best buddies and asking them no impacting questions relating to libretarianism? Stossel is equally as guilty. He chooses only to focus on the libretarian side of things which fits comfortably in the zone of christian conservatisim. He'll rarely do a 'all drugs should be legal' episode or 'we need to close down military bases overseas to save money' episode. It's because he works for Fox news, an arm of the republican party

  • April 16, 2011, 9:58 p.m. CST

    have to love the modern taboo of injecting 'bias' into your writings

    by awepittance

    you guys sound like Sean Hannity, why don't you grow a thicker skin and stop complaining about people 'politicizing' things, stop being pussies and deal with it. This is a critique of a movie, what intelligent critically thinking movie reviewer would veer away from or not put on the table their own politically point of view? Maybe a boring one who doesn't take any risks and never wants to piss off the whiners.

  • April 16, 2011, 10:01 p.m. CST

    creepythinman, do a little research

    by OutsideChance, for example: Somalia's adherence to socialism became official on the first anniversary of the military coup when Siad Barre proclaimed that Somalia was a socialist state, despite the fact that the country had no history of class conflict in the Marxist sense. For purposes of Marxist analysis, therefore, tribalism was equated with class in a society struggling to liberate itself from distinctions imposed by lineage group affiliation. At the time, Siad Barre explained that the official ideology consisted of three elements: his own conception of community development based on the principle of self-reliance, a form of socialism based on Marxist principles, and Islam. These were subsumed under "scientific socialism," although such a definition was at variance with the Soviet and Chinese models to which reference was frequently made. The theoretical underpinning of the state ideology combined aspects of the Quran with the influences of Marx, Lenin, Mao, and Mussolini, but Siad Barre was pragmatic in its application. "Socialism is not a religion," he explained; "It is a political principle" to organize government and manage production. Somalia's alignment with communist states, coupled with its proclaimed adherence to scientific socialism, led to frequent accusations that the country had become a Soviet satellite. For all the rhetoric extolling scientific socialism, however, genuine Marxist sympathies were not deep-rooted in Somalia. But the ideology was acknowledged--partly in view of the country's economic and military dependence on the Soviet Union--as the most convenient peg on which to hang a revolution introduced through a military coup that had supplanted a Western-oriented parliamentary democracy. So, not only is/was it socialist it also had a religious aspect to its government. Again, something that would have been anathema to an atheist like Rand.

  • April 16, 2011, 10:12 p.m. CST

    awepittance, I've seen Stossel advocate drug legalization on Fox...

    by OutsideChance

    He even debated Bill O'Reilly on the subject: He's also been critical of military spending: As for the idea that he pitches "softballs" at conservative guests, I could be wrong but from what I've seen of Stossel, both at Fox and ABC, the guy is polite and professional with guests period. He's not a Hannity or Olbermann. With all due respect, it seems as if you fell into the "I hate Fox" and "guilt by association" traps.

  • April 16, 2011, 10:34 p.m. CST

    by JediWuddayaknow

    Yeah, while I don't give a shit about her philosophy, I would have been interested in this had it been set in the time period it was originally written. Setting it today and applying some bullshit to "make it make sense" is just lame.

  • April 16, 2011, 10:45 p.m. CST

    Some questions for conservatives and libertarians.

    by Voice O. Reason

    There's no such thing as a "self-made man." Everyone benefited from someone else's work at some point, be it from education, capital, or social connections. At what point do you acknowledge that socio-economic status isn't purely based on merit? There is not equal access to the tools people need to pull themselves up in life, so shouldn't a fair society try to help provide them? Is taking 40% of capitalists' income so others will have opportunities, as well as provide military protection for your assets, infrastructure so people can buy your products more easily, and a greater distribution of wealth so more people can afford your products, really a bad thing?

  • April 16, 2011, 10:50 p.m. CST


    by Voice O. Reason

    WHAT government shut down? You are angry at Obama for something that didn't actually happen.

  • April 16, 2011, 10:51 p.m. CST

    Anyone mentioned 'Bioshock' yet?

    by BiggusDickus

    Play it and see how a Randian utopia would ultimately pan out...

  • April 16, 2011, 10:55 p.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack


  • April 16, 2011, 11 p.m. CST


    by rbottoms

    One has only to look at the poll numbers of the birther prick Donald Trump to know that this is the GOP and conservatives now. Too far gone for Massawyrm to make it into the ideal he apparently though they were at some point. Marilyn Davenport, a Tea Party activist and member of the Orange County Republican Party's central committee, is drawing fire from people in her own party after circulating a racist email depicting President Barack Obama and his parents as chimpanzees. In the email: "Now you know why — No birth certificate!" The OC Weekly broke the story and were able to reach Davenport for comment. Her response: "Oh, come on! Everybody who knows me knows that I am not a racist. It was a joke. I have friends who are black. Besides, I only sent it to a few people--mostly people I didn't think would be upset by it." CBS interviewed former chairman of the California Republican Party Michael Schroeder, who says that this email is Davenport's third strike. He is calling for her resignation, citing two previous incidents in which Davenport defended the racist actions of two fellow Orange County conservatives. The teabagger racist fag bashing, anti-science, abortion jihad hordes are the GOP.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:12 p.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    Admit it. You're really Rachel Maddow aintcha.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:17 p.m. CST

    Has anyone mentioned...

    by Gault

    ... that the simple act of adaptating the book into a movie goes against the whole point of the book. The film makers are using someone else's work for the own gain. The people funding and working on this movie are the same bureaucrat fat cat's in the story they're copying. Disgusting, really.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:18 p.m. CST

    Have you guys seen the Cartman Poker Face video? IT ROCKS! FACT!!!

    by Darth_Kong

  • April 16, 2011, 11:19 p.m. CST

    NA NA NA NA! Try this link!

    by Darth_Kong

  • April 16, 2011, 11:21 p.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

  • April 16, 2011, 11:23 p.m. CST

    Shame on You Massa

    by In Action Man Reborn Requiem

    You made Steve Ditko, Geddy Lee, Brad Bird and Alan Greenspan cry.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:24 p.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    And the welfare vampires and union parasites on the other, it's no wonder the US is collapsing on itself. It was good while it lasted.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:25 p.m. CST

    You want to see another real-world example of a Randian libertopia?


    From Wiki: After Japan's surrender, China announced its intent to reclaim its rights to the Walled City. Refugees poured in to take advantage of Chinese protection, and 2,000 squatters occupied the Walled City by 1947. After a failed attempt to drive them out in 1948, the British adopted a 'hands-off' policy in most matters concerning the Walled City. With no government enforcement from the Chinese or the British save for a few raids by the Hong Kong Police, the Walled City became a haven for crime and drugs. It was only during a 1959 trial for a murder that occurred within the Walled City that the Hong Kong government was ruled to have jurisdiction there. By this time, however, the Walled City was virtually ruled by the organized crime syndicates known as Triads.[1] Beginning in the 1950s, Triad groups such as the 14K and Sun Yee On gained a stranglehold on the Walled City's countless brothels, gambling parlors, and opium dens. The Walled City had become such a haven for criminals that police would venture into it only in large groups. It was not until 1973–74, when a series of more than 3,500 police raids resulted in over 2,500 arrests and over 4,000 pounds of seized drugs, that the Triads' power began to wane. With public support, particularly from younger residents, the continued raids gradually eroded drug use and violent crime. In 1983, the police commander of the Kowloon City District declared the Walled City's crime rate to be under control.[1] The City also underwent massive construction during the 1960s and 1970s.[4] Eight municipal pipes provided water to the entire structure (although more could have come from wells).[5] A few of the streets were illuminated by fluorescent lights, as sunlight rarely reached the lower levels.[1] Although the rampant crime of earlier decades diminished in later years, the Walled City was still known for its high number of unlicensed doctors and dentists, who could operate there without threat of prosecution.[6] Although the Walled City was for many years a hotbed of criminal activity, most residents were not involved in any crime and lived peacefully within its walls. Numerous small factories and businesses thrived inside the Walled City, and some residents formed groups to organize and improve daily life there. An attempt by the government in 1963 to demolish some shacks in a corner of the City gave rise to an "antidemolition committee" that served as the basis for a Kaifong association. Charities, religious societies, and other welfare groups were gradually introduced to the City. While medical clinics and schools went unregulated, the Hong Kong government did provide some services, such as water supply and mail delivery.[1] .... CHOPPAH here again: Funny, the quality of life started to improve when the "planners" decided to get shit together and IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF LIFE. WOW. Holy shit! People looking out for other people! SO FUCKING EVIL!!! But again, you say "Objectivist," I say "criminal." I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, huh? HARDY HAR FUCKING HAR!!! CHOPPED.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:26 p.m. CST

    Not all republicans are bible thumping social conservatives.

    by cylon_conspiracy

    Some of us even only call ourselves republican because you got to pick one (republican or democrat) if you want to be able to communicate with anyone about your core beliefs. Yes, you could start getting into detail about how you are more of a libertarian on this issue, or more of a socialist on that issue, but soon you're being one of those damned "individuals" and no one is able to peg you down anymore and lump you in with a whole group of people. Like when people say "all republicans are bible thumping, anti-women, anti-gay, racist hicks. Who watch Faux News." No where in that insult is there any evidence that someone is actually willing to have a civil discussion about politics. I guess my point is we should all be careful about lumping someone in with someone else just because they call themselves a republican. I like Rush but I basically can't stand Beck. I like Sarah Palin but I think Bachmann is a little too hardcore. I don't believe in God and I hate Chrisitianity but I'm tired of people who mock it and completely ignore the barbarism of Islam. I'm glad the President is black as a symbol but I think he is a total fraud as a person and I'm tired of being called racist for being able to make that distinction. I think the government is way too damn big and intrusive but that doesn't mean I think government in and of itself is evil. The only thing I think I have in common with everyone who considers themselves a "republican" is that I want a small government that answers to the people, and not the other way around. One thing I don't like about religious conservatives is that they are against the dictator of government but happily bow before the angry dictator of the Bible. But I know enough to not assume that someone who believes in small government is not a born again christian.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:29 p.m. CST

    RE: creepythinmanlives your fourteen points

    by Oceanlizard

    Those also applied to President Franklin D. Roosevelt, even before the start of the second world war.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:30 p.m. CST

    the top 1% DON'T WORK they just OWN like a neo aristocracy

    by antonphd

    i make video games for a living. i could work some safe comfy 200k a year job but i am an innovator and i like a challenge so i work harder and smarter for a greater reward than i would get from just a comfy safe job. but I WORK FOR MY REWARD. i didn't fucking inherit from family futures first amassed from slavery or worse. i don't CHEAT. i don't BUY laws or BREAK laws. i compete fair and square. i don't conspire to eliminate my competition. i don't squeeze them out of the market so i can have everything. i work hard and smart to earn more but i don't have to have FUCKING EVERYTHING. and most of all... i don't just pay other people the least possible amount to do all the work while i reap all of the rewards. because i'm not a lazy greedy mother fucker. i don't think there's anything wrong with having a top 1% but i think there's something wrong when that top 1% own half of everything. half of the wealth of 300 million people is in the hands of 3 million people who don't work for any of the wealth. they just own. that's a neo aristocracy. and it's FUCKING ANTI AMERICAN. i was raised a republican and i left the party because it was blindly sucking the cock of the top 1%.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:30 p.m. CST

    Anyone here ever read the Elvis Shrugged comic books?

    by ExcaliburFfolkes

    From the early 1990's, where Elvis turned out not to be dead, but instead had faked his death to go on strike against the music industry and was secretly recruiting other music artists to fake their own deaths and go on strike with him?

  • Just let it all play out! Let Rand's Objectivism and rational self-interest be the only guiding philosophies. But here's the catch. Everyone, including the rich, have to start with zero wealth, zero property, zero social connections, zero education. No exceptions. Let's see how quickly the rich nancies will run back to the social contract that enables the entrepreneurial spirit to work, even if there are limits. Sure beats the hell out of contending with some angry masses over a scrap of land and some rice, huh?

  • April 16, 2011, 11:32 p.m. CST

    antonphd: Have you seen the Aliens Colonial Marines game yet?

    by Darth_Kong

  • And I said: "They're called Democrats now."

  • April 16, 2011, 11:36 p.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    Those are Chinese people. I don't think their example is applicable, necessarily, to other folks. They're family and education oriented, and cultivate a strong work ethic. Not all people (unfortunately) are like that.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:40 p.m. CST

    I don't think Tiger Mom was welcome in the Walled City, BSB.


    You gotta understand that those Chinese folks were tainted by Limey colonists.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:43 p.m. CST

    TIGER MOM 2012

    by BringingSexyBack

    We need a kick in the skirts but good.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:44 p.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    America could use a Chinese president. Not a commie one, but one from Connecticut.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:49 p.m. CST


    by rbottoms

    I've never said all Republicans are bible thumping evil fag bashing, racist, anti-science dimwit zealots. Just a high enough percentage that the party is irredeemably lost. Donald Trump is the latest in a long line of Republicans who learned from David Duke that you don't actually have to say nigger, nigger, nigger to get your point across. It's almost encouraging to see people like Masswyrn and David Frum attempting to steer this ship of screaming zealots away from the rocks, but the poison is in the veins of their body politik. The lust for the win too great to turn them away from their reckoning. It hasn't been enough that 90% of blacks despise the GOP, the GOP has been hard at work insulting and driving away Hispanics too. In the end it comes down to demographics and youth. That will finally put the stake in the heart of the Republican party.

  • April 16, 2011, 11:54 p.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    But let's not overlook his pivotal role in advancing the Neocon agenda, which we continue to pay dearly for.

  • April 17, 2011, 12:01 a.m. CST

    BSB: Good point.


    David Frum talks a good game, but when he was in a position to do something, he did something all right. Yeesh.

  • Unlike a certain Manchurian candidate code-named Hussein Soetero.

  • April 17, 2011, 12:11 a.m. CST

    MASSA, you are missing the point.

    by CimmerianWarrior

    There is a reason this doesn't make any sense. It is a unintentional parody. It is disguised as Right Wing propaganda, and that is what is is, but from a liberal mindset. You see, this is a Double entendre at the least. This is meant to skewer one particular political viewpoint, but it is not funded from the people doing the skewering. It is a classic case of a double agent. A liberal writing what they think a conservative would write if they were trying to make fun of a liberal. George Soros funded this. Know that, and know that it is a giant conspiracy. The man is evil. You got suckered, Massa.

  • April 17, 2011, 12:27 a.m. CST

    The sad thing about this talkback is that it only shows how

    by lv_426

    petty we can get arguing over shit that we in the end have no control over. At this point, we are just spinning our wheels and killing time. I mean, sure, we vote, but even then most candidates never live up to a fraction of what they said they'd do. I'm all for fairness, the free market, freedom of speech and expression, etc... but we are moving farther and farther away from all of that as the classes war over shit like some union guy's pension or granny's health care while money just gets shipped off to China and shoveled in giant heaps into Wall Street big wigs' bank accounts. We teeter on the brink of another Great Depression, while all our politicians do is drag their feet arguing over lots of different kinds of bullshit and can barely pass their own goddamn budget. They divide us with their rhetoric, causing us to argue over stuff that just divides us more and more each passing day. We call each other fouler names and grow jealous to the point of fighting over the last few crumbs they've left for us. In the end it is a lot of hot air and pointless venting to the point of aggravation just to win dick measuring contests over insignificantly insignificant dead ends that merely keep us busy... busy looking for the exit in the maze that has no exit. We worship money. We have mythologized the Founding Fathers to the point were they are demigods. George Washington on the one dollar bill has replaced the old image of God as the old bearded man who lives on a white fluffy cloud in the sky. Joseph Campbell said, "you can tell what's informing society by the size of the [building], what the building is, the tallest building in the place. When you approach a medieval town the cathedral's the tallest thing in the place. When you approach a 17th century city, it's the political power that's the tallest in the place. When you approach a modern city it's the office buildings and dwellings that are the tallest things in the place." At this point, we are nearly fucked. We, as in the average citizen who can merely vote (although there are Tea Party supporters who want to severely limit who gets to vote) and hope for the best. Republican. Democrat. Liberal. Conservative. Teabagger. Libertarian. Atheist. Anarchist. Ayn Randian Bioshock-hating wingnut. It doesn't matter which one of those you consider yourself to be at this point. Once you get too close to the event horizon, the black hole sucks you in and stretches you, breaking you apart into a lifeless strand of matter and pulling you into oblivion.

  • April 17, 2011, 12:35 a.m. CST

    A wise man once said...

    by Mo_Rephus

    "Liberalism is a mental disorder." Truer words were never spoken.

  • April 17, 2011, 12:37 a.m. CST


    by dukeroberts

    Too true. Too true. Dammit.

  • April 17, 2011, 12:55 a.m. CST

    mo_rephus - technically, lucifer is an angel, but yes, wise

    by antonphd

  • April 17, 2011, 12:57 a.m. CST

    it's good to see geeks engaging in grown up discussions

    by antonphd

    unlike nerds who i am pretty sure don't even vote

  • April 17, 2011, 1:25 a.m. CST


    by uberman

    He was honest. He was the 1st to understand that peace was crucial in the middle east. He had the stones to call out the American People for spending to much on credit. He was ahead of his time. He put Solar Panals on the White House to show the nation that the future was clean energy (RayGun took them down the second he stepped into the White House to show his corporate handlers that we would remain dependant upon oil-Smart guy, Huh). Carter has been tireless in his later years working for peace and the under privledged-non-stop. He exemplifies the kind of man we should be proud to call American. As for religion, he is also a man true to Christs message. Bush...Reagan...Shrub...the talked a good game but their actions will always speak louder than their words.

  • April 17, 2011, 1:31 a.m. CST


    by lv_426

    "I think there's some stuff in Legend that may make it into Prometheus. Maybe? Maybe not?" Legend? As in the Ridley Scott fantasy film (which is awesome by the way)? How would anything in Legend fit into the Alien universe or Prometheus? You must tell us.

  • April 17, 2011, 1:31 a.m. CST


    by lv_426

    I agree.

  • April 17, 2011, 1:34 a.m. CST

    I am John Titor dammit!!!!!!!! Hear me roar!!!!!!!!

    by lv_426

    I choose the handle lv_426 because ever since seeing ALIENS on holodisc (what we call h-d) as a young kid, I've always loved it. Same with The Terminator and T2. The Abyss was okay, and I enjoyed True Lies and Titanic, but didn't love them. But I count Aliens as one of my top 3 favorite films now. LV 426 is actually my license plate on my car back home in the future. Actually, this reminds me that in my timeline/parallel universe, James Cameron went way more towards a sci-fi streak in 90's instead of doing all the documentary stuff. In my universe, he didn't make True Lies or Titanic. He wrote the screenplay and produced it, but he didn't direct it. Instead, in 1995 he made a third and final Terminator film about the future war. It closed the time loop by ending with Reese and the T2 T800 being sent back in time after the defeat of Skynet. It was awesome. I have a rare copy of the trilogy box set on HD-DVD, just for display purposes of course. You guys were robbed by having to suffer through T3 and Salvation. Dark Angel was so much better in the Titor-verse. After the final Terminator film, which was titled Terminator 3: No Fate, Cameron teamed up with Vincenzo Natali, the Cube director, for another Aliens film. After Alien Resurrection, which in the Titor-verse was directed by John Woo from Joss Whedon's screenplay (slightly different screenplay that your universe's version was made from by that wacky Jeunet dude). Co-produced by Cameron. Directed by John Woo. Alien Resurrection was awesome. It was basically the same plot that Whedon cooked up in your universe's version, but they had Chow Yun Fat as a cybernetically enhanced Weyland Yutani goon after they reverted back to a time period closer to the ones in the first three films. Still had Sigourney as Ripley 8. Oddly enough, Winona Ryder was still in it as the android Call. Go figure. The best part was finally seeing Earth in the Alien verse, because they didn't cut the Earth ending from the script like Jeunet's version did. So back to the Cameron/Natali connection. After the John Woo directed Alien Resurrection, Cameron, now along with Ridley Scott, was still producing the Alien films for Fox, and hired Natali for the next two. The first of the new sequels was basically the aliens got to Earth by way of the Auriga crash, and spread like wildfire. The film was called Alien Epidemic. The final film of this second trilogy was Alien Extinction. It concluded the Earth War stuff, and had Ripley and a bunch of power armored mercs and badass killer military androids go to what they thought was the biomechanical alien homeworld to destroy it and the xenomorph species once and for all. The big twist was the planet was one of hundreds, maybe thousands of bio-engineered worlds created by the extinct for a millennium Space Jockey race. The planet had bioships filled with millions of dormant eggs, waiting to be launched across the cosmos to eradicate all sentient life. Another cool thing was that they showed tons of dead space jockeys all around, implying that they created the xenomorphs as a bioweapon, and then lost control over them which led to their species and civilization's ultimate demise. So anyways, the bioplanet taps into the mega warship (which makes the Sulaco look like a tugboat) that Ripley 8 and the troopers rode in on, and finds the location of Earth and hundreds of human colonies. It then begins launching the egg-filled bioships towards these human occupied locations. Ripley and Call have to destroy the whole damn planet and prevent any more bioships from launching. This causes these huge alien guardians to awaken and hunt down any intruders on the biomechanical world. Another cool thing they developed, which is supposedly something that Cameron and Ridley really latched onto in their initial brainstorming sessions, was that the more aliens you get into a pack or herd, that their collective intelligence increases exponentially. Not to the point where they can talk or drive a car, but just moving in an intelligent swarm. That was so great because it tied into the alien in the original Alien being less capable of doing as many "smart" things as the whole damn horde of xenomorphs were capable of in Aliens (cutting the power). When they get in massive hordes later on when they are on Earth or in the bioplanets, holy hell was it amazing. Like fractal ant swarms imagined by H.R. Giger (who also returned for the rest of the series and came up with some amazing conceptual stuff). I still need to see this Avatar flick that your James Cameron made. I've heard good things about it. I'll have to grab one of the blu-ray versions (which is so weird for me as in my timeline blu-ray went the way of betamax in only a year, and we had HD-DVD, well, at least that's what gramps says whenever we whip out an h-d [holodisc]). I doubt it can compare to what Cameron did in the Titor-verse from T2 onwards. He directed Strange Days, which was a-fucking-mazing and totally different than the version you guys got. Although, the Katherine Bigelow version wasn't bad though, but the Cameron directed Strange Days was a hugely important film in the Titor-verse, and rivals Blade Runner IMO for dark cyberpunkish sci-fi cinema. He was able to send cameras on one of NASA's manned Mars missions. He used this footage in the Mars trilogy miniseries that he produced based on the Kim Stanley Robinson novels. And finally, the one some of you will be pissed you didn't get, was Battle Angel. He did kinda the same thing with that with the 3D IMAX stuff, although our big screens aren't called IMAX. They go by the acronym LUME (large - ultra - movie - experiences). So we have LUME and 3D LUME movies, but basically the same just a different company that IMAX became after they were bought out in the Titor-verse. Anyways, I've gone on too long. I have seen the future. You are all fucked. J. Titor out.

  • We call 'em "Randos" in that they are so gung ho over Ayn Rand's philosophies, that they are like Rambo in that they just won't go away and will even individually take the fight by way of debate to a whole huge crowd of people who oppose their views.

  • April 17, 2011, 1:54 a.m. CST

    Massa, I hear ya...

    by sykora2944

    ...but that review came across as pretty damn left leaning. I'm sure the movie sucks, hell, we had to read the book and I was barely able to get through it, it was so insufferable. It does present some interesting concepts though, that many aren't even willing to address. So many countries over here are teetering on the edge of insolvency because of out need to siphon from industry with zero regard for their solvency. The book (and I'll assume the movie as well) presents some very interesting arguments that without those who would take risks and build for themselves, society would implode. Eventually, without those who would generate wealth, there is no money available for those who live off the government. Think of it this way, you have someone who takes all his friends out for a fish dinner every Friday. For a long time, everything is great and his friends are thankful for his generosity. After a while though, it's not enough and they want him to start paying for more and more extravagant dinners on the basis of "He can afford it". Soon after, the person who pays for everything decides he doesn't want / can't pay for it any more. Where does that leave his friends? It's the same in the real world; eventually the money runs out. As for portraying those in charge as governmental idiots who do nothing but live off the fruits of others quite lavishly, I can tell you, that is more accurate than not. The far right may be insane (as is the far left), but the fears grounded in this book are much more founded than many would like to believe.

  • April 17, 2011, 1:59 a.m. CST

    Conservatives are NOT objectivists

    by Tai_Pan

    And libertarians are no more right wing than communists are left wing. Ayn Rand's putrid bullshit is an insult to intellect.

  • You mean 'Atlas Shrugged' ?</p>Done.</p>

  • April 17, 2011, 2:07 a.m. CST

    Cinematic pissing on Ayn Rand’s grave

    by PTSDPete

    That's all her moronic ideas right there.

  • April 17, 2011, 2:08 a.m. CST

    Shriveled bitch died with a dollar sign on her corpse

    by PTSDPete

    And soon, the teabaggers ( i.e. Obama ) will join her, too.

  • These are just predictions but I always wondered If Ridley would use ideas again from Legend. Here's why I think this may happen. It may not but here's why... Remember how Ridley got rid of the Alien in ALIEN? It was blown out into space? Remember how JACK got rid of DARKNESS in Legend? He fell out into space? It's almost like the death sequences for both of these dark creatures rhyme. They are similar in a strange way. The beasts fall out into darkness or space if you will. Now this is just my BEST EDUCATED GUESS but if there are Space Jockeys and if they do have ships you have to ask yourself the question, WHAT DO THE SPACE JOCKEY'S SHIPS, DERELICT SHIPS, LOOK LIKE WHEN THE SPACE JOCKEYS ARE ALIVE? Do they look any different? Are the ships Bio-mechanical living ships? Here's what I think. Remember the MIRROR SEQUENCE in Legend? When Darkness came through the mirror? How is Ridley going to introduce the Space Jockey if there is one? What if Ridley tries to use this MIRROR SEQUENCE in Prometheus in some way? This is my guess. Imagine that the ship is a Bio-mechanical living THING. What if something EMERGES through a Bio-mechaniclal wall or MEMBRANE made of organic tissue MAYBE similar to the MIRROR SEQUENCE in Legend? I just keep thinking that if there are Space Jockeys in Prometheus that we've got to see some really weird Bio-mechanical technology. Maybe Ridley will do a scene similar in DESIGN and TONE to the MIRROR SEQUENCE in Legend? I mean he ripped off the ending in Legend from Alien so what's to say he wouldn't do the same in Prometheus? I think this Bio-mechanical technology in Prometheus will be like NOTHING WE'VE SEEN YET. I bet it will be creepy. I alway felt that the MIRROR SEQUENCE was really under-appreciated in Legend and who knows. Maybe Ridley will have an idea or scene not too dissimilar to this in Prometheus. Now I'm Probably wrong about the Space Jockeys having tails or if there are beings inside the Space Jockey Bio Suit having tails but look at the Character in Legend MEG MUCKLEBONES. Didn't she have a tail like a SERPENT? I thought she did if I'm not mistaken. I mean I thought that she was supposed to be serpent-like but it really dates the film how they shot her. Not too many full body shots. But it looks like when she's talking to Jack the splashing of the water is caused by her TAIL right? What if Ridley make the Space Jockeys SERPENT-like? Just a thought but again I'm probably wrong but the reason I think along these lines is the whole theme of the Prometheus story and this technology that is stolen from the gods. Look. I think that If there are Space Jockeys however they turn out I PROPOSE that they will be as creepy as Meg Mucklebones and as MAJESTIC as DARKNESS. The Space Jockeys could have TRI-SEGMENTED legs like Darkness and maybe he'll reuse that shot for the Space Jockeys where Darkness just comes through the mirror and his HOOF touches the floor. What if Ridley does that with the Space Jockeys? Again, WE HAVE NOT SEEN IN THE FILMS WHAT THE SPACE JOCKEYS LOOK LIKE BELOW THE WAIST. The design of them is still a little ambiguous. I wouldn't be surprised if Ridley RECYCLES, REUSES, OR RE-IMAGINES ideas from Legend and slips them in Prometheus. Especially the themes of LIGHT and DARKNESS. I bet we will see this theme in Prometheus applied to the Alien technology. LIGHT and DARKNESS. I have to think on this more but I really feel that Ridley will grab ideas that didn't quite succeed in Legend due to the STATE OF THE ART of effects technology at the time and try to REDO them in Prometheus. I see Legend in one way as a TEST-BED for ideas that COULD be used again in Prometheus with modern effects technology. I have more ideas let me chew on this some more. If there are TYPOS sorry.

  • April 17, 2011, 2:31 a.m. CST

    lv_426: Check out this fan artwork of Meg Mucklebones...

    by Darth_Kong

  • April 17, 2011, 2:45 a.m. CST

    This is gonna do awesome

    by Shubniggorath

    A bigger hit than American Carol.

  • April 17, 2011, 3:11 a.m. CST

    shubniggorath wins the talkback

    by Brian

    I bet this shitty movie takes in at least 3 of 4 hundred dollars at least.

  • April 17, 2011, 3:20 a.m. CST

    rmc07: a little helpful hint...

    by Flip63Hole

    The message about "evil elitist liberals" in Atlas is that they AREN'T doing things for themselves, but for THE PEOPLE. The exact opposite of the drivel you posted. But thanks! It' so very cute watching minimum-wage earners trying to defend a film they haven't seen, spouting right-wing talking points they don't understand...

  • April 17, 2011, 3:37 a.m. CST


    by Smack_Teddy

    Looks like a far right wing crazies version of 'The Room' crossed with those 'Left Behind' movies... from the trailer anyway. I second the notion that people comparing this shit to Iron Man 2 have some kind of mental disability going on in their brains.

  • April 17, 2011, 4:04 a.m. CST

    Ah, lovely economics

    by Ciderman

    We here in Ireland have a unique insight into the subject, after being bent over and fucked, dry, up the ass in recent years but international money dealers, namely bond holders. Unfortunately we also had a hand in it too, managing to treat ourselves to too much, creating too much debt. Like everything it seems there is a balance between the larger corporate actions that fuck over people and nations alike and also the fact that we have to take some personal responsibility for the money we spend and the people we elect. I am a left wing liberal but also in favour of personal responsibility, not allowing any one group blame the other when it always seems to boil down to greed, albeit on different scales. As the great Jack Nicholson said in the opus "Mars Attacks", Why Can't We All Just, Get Along? Oh, Source Code rocked by the way, as did Battlefield:LA, wow, the US really gets fucked up! No alien menace ever invades Dublin! It's great!

  • April 17, 2011, 4:07 a.m. CST

    TBers suck as interrogators ...

    by SunsetLament

    The only thing you need to know to judge Massa's Republican street cred is: Massa, did you vote for McCain in the last Presidential election? If yes, that's good enough for me. If not, then he's not even a RINO; he'd be pretending to be a RINO.

  • Is that it?

  • April 17, 2011, 5:55 a.m. CST

    The problem with Atlas shrugged is...

    by Stanisław Lem

    an incomplete motor that transforms atmospheric static electricity into kinetic electricity...hahahahah I've got somthing objective in my pants

  • April 17, 2011, 5:57 a.m. CST

    evangelion80 : promising THOR review

    by justmyluck

    I was rooting for Branagh to bring even just a wee touch of class to it.

  • April 17, 2011, 6:06 a.m. CST

    oh, and Ayn Rand

    by justmyluck

    I have THE FOUNTAINHEAD (Cooper/Neal) on DVD and haven't watched it yet. It was in a clearance for $4 so, counting these ATLAS SHRUGGED pans (10% on Rotten Tomatoes - ouch), I'm guessing Rand's two overblown and stodgy didacticisms will eventually fade into obscurity like cold war propaganda.

  • April 17, 2011, 7 a.m. CST

    Rand hated women

    by Bobo_Vision

    Didn't the female romantic lead in The Fountainhead get raped by the male lead? Then they became like boyfriend and girlfriend? The women in her novels were dumb bitches who deserved to be raped and shit on by men. <p> I think that says a lot about Rand herself.

  • April 17, 2011, 7:52 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    I know a couple of bona fide Randians around here. They go by the names DocPazuzu and Peter David.

  • April 17, 2011, 7:54 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack


  • April 17, 2011, 8:06 a.m. CST

    The Altruistically Evil thing is based on Communism

    by Drath

    Where people are told to give up everything for the community--FORCED to sacrifice for "the greater good." Yes, I'd call that evil, and I think it's really silly to dismiss that such evil exists, even if you don't agree where the movie is claiming it resides. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Hitler's greater good wasn't so good, was it? He had a lot of supporters who believed otherwise even if they are all now thankfully on the wrong side of history. Communism had a more noble ideal in mind, but it totally failed just the same. I have no idea how awful this movie might be, I don't much care, but I don't agree that there are not people who think they are improving the world who would force everyone else to conform to THEIR idea of what is best. I have no doubt such people are in both Democrat and Republican parties (although I think in the end the bad guys are always out to serve themselves above everything). And their ideas might even sound like something good at first to many would-be supporters--hence the THREAT of such evil. My only trouble with all of this is we aren't in much danger of going to Communism. I can't even see a violent revolution happening soon--although the disparity between rich and poor is going to have consequences of SOME kind for the rich before too much longer.

  • April 17, 2011, 8:06 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    Drop that political affiliation bullshit already. Enough of the team mentality in politics. Not voting for McCain, if anything, proves Massa can think for himself instead of tow the line. Both the Republican and Democratic parties have, yet again, proven themselves disasterously harmful to America. Both are completely beholden to special interests, and let's not be naive - those interests overlap more than we're led to believe. The latest "budget fiscal crisis" was nothing more than political maneuvering for power. The $38 billion in cost cutting has already been revealed to be accounting smoke and mirrors. If Massa chooses to be an idealist and identify himself with core Republican values, good luck. Because your party is too far gone to save, as is mine.

  • April 17, 2011, 8:18 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    Sure, they may throw us Bernie Maddoff as some sort of symbolic sacrificial lamb. But the money masters who are bringing about the ruin of our world (yes, the world) will never be touched as long as they pull the governments' strings - in the form of lobbyists and outright bribery.

  • April 17, 2011, 8:30 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    I hope you guys in Ireland take back your government. The thing about the Irish, I've noticed, is that you are very quick to take individual responsibility for the actions of your banks and politicians. It's noble but misguided. Your country is in no different a predicament as Iceland, Spain, Portugal, Japan, or America. Even as your government signed onto World Bank imposed "austerity measures", last week Moody's still downgraded your credit rating to just above junk status. Wasn't the whole point of yielding to those measures to avert such a thing? Why even bother then?

  • April 17, 2011, 8:47 a.m. CST

    The look and feel of this thing (from trailer)

    by MoffatBabies

    reminds me of the larger budget christian films that have made the rounds in recent years. What is it with these films? Even though I am purely an atheist, I would applaud any christian filmmaker who could pull off even a christian message film that at its heart contained a good story with decent dialogue. But somehow these people just cannot attract the right talent to get involved. The approach needs to be more subtle. These things are far too on the nose. And as far as Rand herself goes I must admit a long near-obsession with her. Ever since I watched her long interview and q&a on the Donahue show, who knows how long ago, I have been fascinated with her. I was a kid at the time, but still recognized so much of myself in her, especially her atheism. But here I am years later, and as others have suggested, her philosophy falls apart far too easily and I am now more interested in the woman herself. Her ideas, when formed, perhaps made sense on some level. But the 90s-on have proven that even when we approach some of her philosophy made real, we find that the limits of greed are truly immeasurable. The problem with most reform is that when it benefits the very rich, it's never bottom up. It's always top-down. The poorest of us continue to pay huge taxes (sales, etc) while the richest deny we pay them at all, while we are constantly burdened by them, with real impact on our lives. In the Bush years, many people are unaware that tax statistics were kept a STATE SECRET right up until Obama's first week in office. Why? Well, because many of the people who benefit from theses stats being a secret simply play the game of life by a different set of rules than you or I. But you will run into any number of people, making less than 20 grand a year, that think the absolute opposite of reality and reason. And they cannot be talked out of it. It is many of these people who you will find these days worshiping Rand. Truly intelligent people, too. Just completely going against not only their own self interests, but convinced that the majority of society wishes to destroy commerce, tradition and the American dream. While they support the very people dismantling it. The one thing I do find amusing about the whole thing however, is the idea of any Fox news personality endorsing the work of a staunch, hard atheist. Very fun to watch... and remember later on. Remember hard!

  • April 17, 2011, 9:15 a.m. CST


    by MoffatBabies


  • April 17, 2011, 9:15 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    Phil's calm retort to this flagrantly racist cunt is commendable, considering his wife is Lebanese. A true gentleman. Rand: "I don't resort to terrorism. I don't go around murdering my opponents, innocent women and children." Funny. She just described Israeli policy to a T.

  • April 17, 2011, 9:33 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

  • April 17, 2011, 9:47 a.m. CST

    Good mention of The Man in the White Suit

    by obi_juan

    Was in my netflix queue, am watching it now to compare to Atlas Shrugged.

  • April 17, 2011, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Evangelion80-- awesome name

    by StarWarsRedux

  • April 17, 2011, 10:23 a.m. CST


    by Paul

    Well, we know now that Massa is Liberal. I love the line "they're Liberals, Sean. They have hearts." As if no one else does? Good god what a complete dumbass. With that kind of bias, how can anyone take this "review" seriously? Is there any doubt that he would give a bad review to any movie that conflicted with his own political ideas?

  • April 17, 2011, 10:54 a.m. CST

    Who is John Galt...

    by Randolph_Manboobs

    "But when a film comes along and paints liberals as sinister cigar smoking fat cats, feasting on opulent dinners and in all ways acting like Libertarian corporatists until the revelation that their dirty backroom politics are for the good of “the people” and “the nation” and they won’t seemingly be getting much real gain out of it at all…I have to wonder: what the fuck were they thinking? Who seriously believes this shit?" Perhaps those of us who are seeing this embodied in the decay of America's urban centers (Detroit, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, etc.), where cities and state municipalities are collapsing under the weight of financing pensions of public sector unions and other entitlement programs while getting substandard returns. It's not simply a matter of taxing the rich, there just isn't enough money to pay for the pipe dreams of the Great Society without having EVERYONE pay - A LOT.

  • April 17, 2011, 10:59 a.m. CST


    by D.Vader


  • April 17, 2011, 11:14 a.m. CST

    Right wing troll Alan Greenspan loves this book

    by kafka07

    Anyone who celebrates this book is a right wing fascist who thinks the working class only exists to be shat on.

  • April 17, 2011, 11:16 a.m. CST

    On a site where grammar is unknown...

    by JamesWest

    On a site where grammar is unknown I would not expect anyone here to understand this movie. Don't know if I am interested enough to go see it, but it isn't surprising that no one here understands it.

  • April 17, 2011, 11:25 a.m. CST

    The problem with this review and most reviews I've seen for this movie

    by Coughlins Laws

    is that the authors are immediately attacking the politics and then sprinkle in bits about how "amateurish" it is. You can't tell from this review or any other I've seen if the movie is actually good or not. And I do think that the movie should be graded on a curve. It had a very limited budget, due alot to the fact that most players in Hollywood are ultra-Leftists that didn't want anything to do with this. Most movies on a shoestring budget are cut some slack by reviewers and they wouldn't dream of penalizing a movie for having a small budget. Look at most Oscar winning movies lately. As far as you being a "resident" Republican, Massa, OK. So is David Brooks, David Frum, and Joe Scarborough. There are hordes of Republicans the media uses to trot out simply to criticize the Republican Party. Of course the Republican Party isn't perfect. Neither is the Democrat Party. The point is, it's hard to take someone seriously who claims they are a Republican but then uses the same talking points the Democrats use to attack the GOP. I see very little evidence of you taking a political stance here that has anything to do with the conservative agenda, but I've seen you attack the Republican Party for the sake of attacking it multiple times in your review and this Talkback. I'm not saying you can't disagree with the GOP, lord knows they have problems, but anyone that has to preface their comment by saying, "I'm a Republican, but..." is akin to saying "I have a lot of black friends..." before they go off on a racist tangent...

  • April 17, 2011, 11:26 a.m. CST


    by Dr Gregory House

    Who is Atlas and why is he shrugging?

  • April 17, 2011, 11:28 a.m. CST

    Anybody that believes in Ayn Rand's philsophy...

    by jimmy_009

    ...after living through the last decade is fucking idiot.

  • April 17, 2011, 11:40 a.m. CST

    kafka, Alan Greenspan is NOT a Republican. He got Bill Clinton reelected.

    by Coughlins Laws

    AS far as anyone who likes this book being a "right-wing fascist who thinks the working class only exists to be shat on" proves to me you're an ordinary simpleton who doesn't ever plan on doing anything creative or extraodinary in your life. You plan to just coast as a worker bee. You don't ever plan on being a creative entrepreneur or do anything to set yourself apart from your bretherin. You don't plan on taking risks in life or contributing to society. Or if you do, you just don't plan on being compensated for it. Let me let you in on a little parable. The guy who invented one of the best selling video games of all time, Tetris, you'd think, would've gotten rich off of it. If he lived in America, he would have. However, he lived in Russia and worked for the Government. They took his program and made millions off of it, while he remained a working stiff. Just recently, because of the collapse of Communism, he started making a little money off of it. But the point is, he created a game that sold millions and millions, that helped sell millions of Gameboys, that brought joy to millions of people for decades, and the government "stole" all the profits from this and kept them for itself. I know that this a childish example, but I wanted to keep things super simple for you. You obviously have trouble understanding. I could go on about how it costs drug companies billions of dollars of investment to cultivate drugs, test them, get FDA approval, etc, etc, etc, over the course of years and sometimes decades to bring life-extending drugs to the market. This is why they get a years long grace periods to sell the drug with no cheap generics allowed, so the can recoup on their investment. However, our Teleprompter-In-Chief WOULD have our Government allow any company to make generic knock-offs so as to disallow these drug companies to make their money back. There are many liberals who want US citizens to be able get generic drugs from Canada where there are no protections. This sort of thing IS done by our Government. And no, it ISN'T fair...

  • April 17, 2011, 11:53 a.m. CST


    by dukeroberts

    "...after living through the last decade is (a) fucking idiot." You may want to go back and take a look at how much entitlement spending and foreign aid (including more money for African AIDS relief than any President ever) increased under George W. Bush before you make that statement. He also created the largest entitlement program since The Great Society with Medicare Part D. That man spent lots of our money attempting to help other people.

  • April 17, 2011, 12:04 p.m. CST

    Atlantis found.

    by phifty2

  • April 17, 2011, 12:13 p.m. CST

    Altruistically Evil - We call that Communism.

    by spire_walk

    You know, the political cause that was created to bring equality and end homelessness by the state owning all industry and taking away from the rich, by executing them? Oh, and all the millions that die during their 5 year plans and great leaps forward? Yeah, it's Communism, and it's altruistically evil. Ayn Rand, for all of her flaws, lived during a time when altruistic evil was killing millions upon millions. She was born in Russia in 1905, so you have to take her batshit craziness into perspective with the Revolution that was coming where a whole fuck load of people died "in the name of the people." It's pretty simple really, you use "the people" instead of "the government" and you can do whatever the fuck you want...starve them, move them into collectives. It's for the people! The people made this decision!

  • April 17, 2011, 12:32 p.m. CST

    Polarizing politics

    by garybuseys_incisors

    Is the biggest crock of shit in America. Both sides work for the same people and will do the same thing. There is no difference between Republicans and Democrats. One side starts something (read War in Iraq) and the other side just advances and continues it. It's been going on for years and it's not going to start. I would call myself a Libertarian. I think the wars are a waste of human life and a shit load of money. Watch the 2008 Republican debates where Ron Paul said a major contributing factor to 9/11 was a result of what the CIA calls blowback. Watch Guilianni's (sp?) response and listen to the mouth-breathers cheer. Then, for those of you "conservatives" watch Sean Hannity (read: tax cheat) get all hot and bothered about how our empire-building foreign policy couldn't possibly make people want to defend us. Those of you that STILL defend the wars, what would you think if China built a massive military base in the middle of America? Kind of like what we have done in multiple countries.... And CTM, if you're Canadian why do you care so passionately about American politics?

  • April 17, 2011, 12:33 p.m. CST

    by garybuseys_incisors

    not going to stop**

  • "but anyone that has to preface their comment by saying, "I'm a Republican, but..." is akin to saying "I have a lot of black friends..." before they go off on a racist tangent..." That statement is so wrong on so many levels, I wouldn't know where to start. They are absolutely nothing alike.

  • April 17, 2011, 12:35 p.m. CST

    May we well throw out Nazi comparisons while you're at it

    by D.Vader

  • April 17, 2011, 12:39 p.m. CST


    by MoffatBabies

    Gahd! I hope my post didn't make you think I agreed with everything she said in that interview. NO!!! And to the person above equating the grammar on this site to their general inability to "get" Rand, you're way off. There's nothing magical about her philosophy that couldn't be picked up on by your average 10th grader. Which explains quite a lot. But the things I do still find attractive about her philosophy.. a. Her focus on the importance of the individual. b. Her observations on the devaluation of people who excel. This aspect of her ideas flies in the face of most Fox news devotees in the sense that it is for the most part the dreaded... uh oh.. the E word... ELITIST! c. The rejection of the concept that "we're all the same". Of course we're not. If we were all the same, the tea party movement and their hangers on wouldn't have their collective heads up their asses. d. Her unabashed, in your face atheism. Something most of her "followers" would like to forget. Everything else? Pretty much outdated, wishful pollyanna nonsense. They say liberals live in a fantasy world. The absolute truth many of you don't want to face is that the top 1% of this country, income/profit wise, are playing by a different set of rules than the rest of us, and it's crippling the middle class and starving the poor. Find a decent one bedroom apartment, then go find ONE full time, honest job that will pay for it. Not as easy as it used to be. And in places it's still affordable, the job market is abysmal. Not taxes, but the ultra-rich not PAYING taxes in the same percentages as the rest of us is ruining it all. They conveniently leave out all of the "sin" taxes, fuel taxes and sales taxes when they talk about the taxes you and I don't "really" pay. And all while the rich have ways of avoiding many of those taxes as well. We are all bombarded with taxes, fees and laws that prevent us from truly being competitive, or even just also-rans, yet many people now still feel as though the best course of action is to take care of the rich 1% BEFORE we deal with deregulating and de-taxing the rest of us. Like I said before... you want reform, I'm all for it. But just for once... bottom up first. Then you'll find out just how "grass roots" this whole tea party movement is, along with its Rand-worshiping cousins. This shit just keeps pissing me off. In a world where you and I have to pass a urine test to work at a video store or a fast food joint, for many years before Obama, tax information regarding the highest earning citizens of our country was a STATE SECRET! That, my friends, is top down right there. Rights for them, none for us. Privacy for them, while not even our bodily fluids belong to us. Fuck that. Pull your heads out of your asses. I'd prefer Paul's flat tax ideas over what we have now. If it was truly enforced and didn't come with all kinds of sneaky loopholes. It's time for things to truly swing left in this country again, for a while,just to restore some balance again.

  • April 17, 2011, 12:44 p.m. CST

    Damn there's lots of hot wind a blowin in these parts.

    by UltraTron

    Shame I couldn't bear to read anything written in this talkback.

  • April 17, 2011, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Oh and pensions and unions?

    by MoffatBabies

    No thanks. Try on "tax free business in exchange for not changing states", excessive loopholes for business in exchange for votes, sales tax avoidance for the ultra rich, free tax money for things like stadiums and multi-million dollar wages for sports teams ( in the name of "job creation".. phhht.. yeah, 5.75 an hour selling 9 dollar beers and mopping up vomit maybe), buying votes with promised 6 and 7 figure "consulting" jobs after they leave office, non-competitive bidding (or none at all) for government contracts and numerous reasons other than the piddling wages and pensions people always talk about. And you want the real reason for much of the urban decay in the suburbs and city centers of this country? Out of control rents that don't match up to average wages. The return of fair rent controls in this country would resolve a large number of issues. In my area, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find even a box with a toilet for less than 700 a month. The poorest are reamed the worst, with slumlords taking advantage of people who cannot pass credit checks and charging huge percentages above average rents in well-to-do neighborhoods, all while renting slum apartments in crime-ridden areas and never fixing anything that breaks. Do you know how many homeless people would be in my area right now if there was such a thing as a 450 dollar studio apartment? A few. But none of them would be homeless because they couldn't afford an apartment. You can make that collecting cans and bottles. All the people on welfare? Put them to work if they're under 55 cleaning up the city/town. And there is absolutely no reason beyond thoughtless greed for a small apartment with no bedroom and barely a kitchen to be above 500 bucks, ever. I have nothing against profit. But I have a LOT against profit against the worst-off people in society. People that are willing to work for a living. What many philosophies fail to realize is that with capitalism, many must fail for many to succeed. Balance is required in a capitalist society to make sure that those who do "lose" can at least live a healthy, but not glamorous or leisurely life. Not because you're afraid of the unclean masses "rising up", but instead because you love your country and even the lowliest people that keep it running. Are some wages out of control? Yes. Are some unions abusive and destructive? Yes. But they are NOT the cause of this country's woes. Not by a long shot. They're a scapegoat. And the frustrating part of much of this is that many know this to be true, yet "stick to their guns" even when proven wrong. That, my friends, is what we in the huddled masses call .. fucked up

  • April 17, 2011, 1:27 p.m. CST


    by brobdingnag

    "I have nothing against profit." Of course you don't, you just have a problem with anyone making more of it than you do. You and all like you (Massa included) don't want equal opportunity, you want equal outcome. You talk about winners and losers as if people's station in life are completely unconnected to their own actions. The wealthy did nothing to earn their lifestyle and the poor are just the victims of circumstance. Your answer of course is government regulation. Which is no different than armed robbery other than the weapon is government. In fact I would have more respect for you if you were advocating armed robbery. It would be more honest of you.

  • Nobel Prize winning economist and liberal commentator Paul Krugman alluded to an oft-quoted quip in his blog: "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." "...Atlas Shrugged is a celebration of life and happiness. Justice is unrelenting. Creative individuals and undeviating purpose and rationality achieve joy and fulfillment. Parasites who persistently avoid either purpose or reason perish as they should." - Alan Greenspan

  • April 17, 2011, 2:15 p.m. CST


    by MoffatBabies

    1. No problem with people making more than me. I'd just like to work hard and be able to live a very meager existence. Making more and trying harder is up to me. I don't ask for handouts and don't live off of any government programs. 2. "Equal outcome" is a nice little meme you guys like to use, but it fails. No-one is expecting equal outcome. Opportunity can only be had if you work for it, or are very, very lucky. However, we cannot have "equal opportunity" when the rules, regulations and burdens we all live with are skewed in favor of the richest people in society. If the rules you admire were in place, in a logical sense, then as my wages go up and I get promoted, my apartment rent would go down. After all, why should I be punished by my landlord for being successful? There's a difference between punishment and fair play. Face it, they play by different rules in a society that they depend on for their success. 3. I never suggested that anyone's station in life is unconnected to their own actions. That's fantasy on your part. I believe the opposite to be true. 4. "The wealthy did nothing to earn their lifestyle" Again, pure fantasy on your part. This is nonsense. Of course many earned what they have. But not everyone, and not always. Just a fact. This fantasy is common, but a wild exaggeration that does nothing but cloud the argument. 5. "The poor are just victims of circumstance" More fantasy. Many of the poor in our country are poor because they are unwilling to work. Or have no ambition. Many of those people live in places that put up all kinds of barriers to entry into parts of society that could improve their lives. But most of the poor I know are the working poor. And millions of them in the last few years have become homeless in spite of a willingness to work full time or more. The only thing "expensive" about the basics of living in the US right now is greed. Medical greed, rent and real estate greed and wage greed. One of the best examples is rent. It's out of control. 6. .."people's station in life are (sic) unconnected to their own actions" Again, a fantasy on your part. Of course their station in life is connected to their actions. And our actions are connected inextricably to the actions of those all around us. All action has consequence, yet when it comes to some conservative philosophy, the buck stops at the consequences o our actions on ourselves. And if our actions have an effect on one or many others, we're off the hook because "we are only responsible for our own actions and how they effect US.. not them"... yet... tell that to a judge sometime. Just because you can get away with something doesn't mean your actions are right, good or even legal. I can effect my station in life by screwing tons of people over in many different ways, but making money at doing it does not make it right. 7. "Your answer is government regulation". Wrong. No more so than theft being a crime is "government regulation". Making money by doing something is not a free pass for that action. Mr Madoff. You live in a world that allows you to benefit from regulation you like, yet are against regulation you do not like. And that's fine. But de-regulation is such a murky, relative thing. Of course de-regulation is never bottom-up. It's always top-down. I have to call bullshit. When I see de-regulation from the bottom-up FIRST, I'll look at getting behind it. But the de-regulation game is actually just rule breaking in disguise. If the rest of us broke the rules, we'd still go to jail. I say us first. Just try that once and watch how "grass roots" your movement turns out to be. 8. Regulation and taxes as "armed robbery". This concept ignores the fact that we ALL pay taxes now, in the real world. And we all follow regulation every day. If all taxes are robbery, and all regulation is robbery, then why is it the people with the most money in a country with "representative government" and the majority being middle to lower class, have we not seen the poor relieved of their tax burden first? When I see that proposed, I'll get behind it. And since ALL taxes and regulation is robbery, I want it all gone right now. But you know better, don't you? You know the consequences of that. If you want anarchy, just say so. At least I'd respect that. It would be more honest of you. The fact is, there are a set of rules in place that we live by. And the rich are breaking those rules. Change the rules? Fine. But live with the consequences, and do it fairly. Those with the most money will be just fine, so stop taxing them and stop taxing us... even at the same time. But I dare anyone who considers him or herself a teabagger to start talking about bottom-up rather than top-down de-regulation and de-taxation with the people they voted into office and demand it. I'd also like you to visualize the country transformed by this pipe-dream. And fill in some of the blanks. What happens to the millions who get things like dialysis every day? What about the police? Fire fighters? Oh sure we could work out a way to make these things happen. Tell you what, we'll get together and work out a way to fund these charities and such. Oh... but wait... Mr Smith here doesn't think he should pay for fire and police, cause he's "just fine without 'em", cause he can " 'ford his own security at night ". Face it, your movement is living in a fantasy world and constantly makes up all kinds of fantasies about the people opposed to your ideas to fit into what you believe about us. But the truth is you have no plan. And the ones that do have a plan sound like nutters. What makes us stand out is less our fancy cars and cavernous, mountain-sized McMansions and more our unwillingness to allow the weakest of us suffer and die just because they don't have "representative paper" (money) to get the (usually) small things they need to live a basic life with a reasonable amount of pain and suffering. If you don't want a society, I suggest escaping it.

  • April 17, 2011, 2:25 p.m. CST

    Paul Krugman:

    by Arna

    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

  • April 17, 2011, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Instead of reading the book or watching the film...

    by Dr. Egon Spengler

    Go play the game Bioshock instead. Any Rand's world is a fantasy.

  • April 17, 2011, 2:55 p.m. CST

    Wow. Lincoln was a "Right-Winger?"

    by BryonMorrigan

    That's about the most hilarious thing posted on AICN...unless you meant George Lincoln Rockwell, who was indeed a "Right Winger." I swear, whenever I want to try to think of Conservatives as halfway intelligent people, they have to open their mouths and prove otherwise. The only thing "Conservative" about Lincoln was that he didn't bow to the Far-Left "Radical Republicans" who were the fiercest opponents of slavery. But to call him a "Right-Winger," would be as erroneous as it would be to call President Obama a "Right-Winger" because he doesn't usually capitulate to the Far-Left of today. Read a book...and preferably one written by a HISTORIAN. (You know, someone with the letters "P," "H," and "D" after their name.)

  • April 17, 2011, 3:01 p.m. CST

    Oh, and for any "Christians" who like Rand...

    by BryonMorrigan

    Keep this quote in mind: Satanism is, "just Ayn Rand's philosophies, with ritual and ceremony added." -- Anton LaVey, founder and High Priest of the Church of Satan. How anyone can reconcile being a "Christian" and practicing "Satanism" is beyond me. But hey, I'm just a Hindu, so I guess I just don't understand your peculiar Right-Wing dissonance.

  • April 17, 2011, 3:07 p.m. CST

    It is EVIL to Censor South Park. FACT!!!

    by Darth_Kong

  • April 17, 2011, 3:13 p.m. CST

    This talkback has become useless

    by lv_426

    Atlas Shrugged is about as far from being "cool news" as Siberia is in geographical location to Disney land. I don't even know why they reviewed this film on this site. They might as well have reviewed some horrible direct to video softcore pornos or cheapie horror flicks at this rate. Instead of letting one of the best and probably the only positively spirited talkbacks ever on this site in years continue, the one about The Hobbit's first video diary, which gets quickly pushed down off the page so we have to sit here and bicker over Ayn Rand and our dumb ass rampant capitalist downward spiral of a prison state.

  • April 17, 2011, 3:16 p.m. CST


    by brobdingnag

    "No-one is expecting equal outcome." Actually most people are collectivists like you and expect that. You do want that but know that it will hurt your cause to be honest about it. "However, we cannot have "equal opportunity" when the rules, regulations and burdens we all live with are skewed in favor of the richest people in society." I couldn't agree more. That's why I want absolutely no government involvement or regulation of anything at all. I don't favor some regulation and not others, I oppose ALL regulation. "I never suggested that anyone's station in life is unconnected to their own actions" Again, you are not being honest, that IS your belief. "And millions of them in the last few years have become homeless in spite of a willingness to work full time or more" What does that tell you about the value of "willingness to work"? You can be willing to work in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first. Being stupid and unable to compete is no badge of honor. Being willing to work has no value. Actually producing does. "One of the best examples is rent. It's out of control" Don't pay it then. "And our actions are connected inextricably to the actions of those all around us" No one can make you do anything you don't agree to unless it is through the mechanism of government or at the point of a gun. If anyone is advocating screwing people over through force it is YOU. "If all taxes are robbery, and all regulation is robbery, then why is it the people with the most money in a country with "representative government" and the majority being middle to lower class, have we not seen the poor relieved of their tax burden first" Half the country pays no income tax at all. Half. And yes, I do want what you would consider anarchy. I want totally unregulated capitalism with no form of politically based government. Taking the results of my productive efforts against my will is theft. There is no "context" in which it is not theft and any compromise between your desire to steal from me and my desire that you do not benefits only you. "The fact is, there are a set of rules in place that we live by" There is no we. There is only you, and I and others. No one has any obligation to anyone else EVER unless they take it on of their own free will which is fine but not good enough for you, you must force your morality on others at the point of a gun. "What happens to the millions who get things like dialysis every day? " They pay their own way or die. "What about the police? Fire fighters?" You have private services that you either pay for or you don't get. Be productive or starve, the choice is yours. "If you don't want a society, I suggest escaping it. " I'm doing my best to see it destroyed.

  • Gotta love Old Meg. Robert Picardo played her. I saw Legend tons of times before I found that out and I could barely believe it when I did. kong, did you read my John Titor post yet?

  • April 17, 2011, 3:18 p.m. CST

    And as well, for you religious, god-fearing Also-Rands

    by MoffatBabies

    "For centuries, the mystics of spirit had existed by running a protection racket - by making life on earth unbearable, then charging you for consolation and relief, by forbidding all the virtues that make existence possible, then riding on the shoulders of your guilt, by declaring production and joy to be sins, then collecting blackmail from the sinners. " - Rand "..if devotion to truth is the hallmark of morality, then there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.... the alleged short-cut to knowledge, which is faith, is only a short-circuit destroying the mind." - Rand "religion, no - in the sense of blind belief, belief unsupported by, or contrary to, the facts of reality and the conclusions of reason. Faith, as such, is extremely detrimental to human life: it is the negation of reason." - Rand Probably some of the more reasonable things she said. Except that everyone knows faith by its definition isn't even an "alleged" short cut to anything resembling "knowledge". To most religions, knowledge is sin.

  • April 17, 2011, 3:20 p.m. CST


    by Franklancer

    if he thinks any of us give a rat turd over his political views... no one reads this anything on this site for political op-eds, keep to the fan stuff, and stop trying to impress bill maher, he'll let you suck him off without it.

  • April 17, 2011, 3:20 p.m. CST

    and that first quote is quite a contradiction for her

    by MoffatBabies

    After all, why should a priest be punished for his success above others and his profits be called "blackmail"??

  • April 17, 2011, 3:24 p.m. CST


    by lv_426

    You sound like you'd join the Federation to become a citizen, hijack a ship, and nuke the unwashed masses from orbit. The only good bum is a dead bum!

  • April 17, 2011, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Truly sad.

    by MoffatBabies

    The one thing that will prevent the success of her vision of an objectivist utopia is the one thing holding back the one group of people who have any chance of ever making it real..... Religion. Best of luck with that one.

  • April 17, 2011, 3:32 p.m. CST

    Wow liberals...

    by john

    Massawyrm: you are a pathetic individual with your comments in this review. Anyone today with half a brain knows that politics is corrupt, in general, BOTH parties. What you fail to realize going with your brain dead Hollywood following is that modern day liberals are SO far beyond the values and integrity this country believes in and was FOUNDED upon. Before you utter your political opinion and thus prove how truly unintelligent you and your elitist crowd really are, I suggest that you go read about our founding fathers and the values they created this country upon. Then tell me if you still feel the same way politically.

  • (Apologies to creepythinman. It was too good to pass up. Keep CHOPPIN' the good CHOP, my man.)

  • April 17, 2011, 3:36 p.m. CST

    So I'm a Randian now, BSB?

    by DocPazuzu

    Feel free to back that up with some sort of proof. Good luck with that since I have no love for Rand or her philosophies whatsoever. <p> You, on the other hand, are a Holocaust revisionist ("the number of dead was exaggerated by millions") among many other odious things. What's that you say? Can I back that up? Why, yes, I can: <p>

  • April 17, 2011, 3:36 p.m. CST

    rmc07 re: Milk and Cream

    by micturatingbenjamin

    Do you or do you not hold to the creed that our country allows milk to 'become' the cream? That anyone with the will to become wealthy and with the proper application of that good old fashioned Puritan work-ethic will one day succeed? If you do, than the statement about milk and cream makes no goddamned sense. Or is it your position that there will always be two separate castes? Milk - Those who actually work and provide the motivation and drive in a country, and 'Cream' - Those who by sheer fucking fate and luck of birth have at their disposal wealth beyond measure? That, sir or ma'am, is fucking aristocracy at its core. That someone through divine right rules over the rest. An elite circle, and that right tiny, ruling over the rest -- thoroughly via dint of their luck of birth is clearly 'right of kings' territory. The concept that there will always be Milk and Cream is invalid unless you start taking into account inborn traits like intelligence or psychological traits (learned traits) like willingness to work. Then ask yourself if Ray Charles was Milk or Cream? His talent put him in a class of performer beyond most who played the same instrument. But I daresay he never did more 'work' in a day than my father -- a soldier and son of a farmer -- by the Randian definition of the word. Then you have to talk about Ayn Rand's ideas on eugenics (mixed, to be sure, but certainly along the lines of -- if people weren't so fucking easily offended, we'd eliminate the infirm, and genetically insure these things don't happen anymore). I personally believe that weeding out weaknesses in a species is a good thing. But of course that's tempered with a dose of Judeo-Christian bullshit I can't seem to shake off since I was six. So, I don't want to kill off the mentally retarded, physically handicapped, or just plain ignorant. I want to heal them, make them better, and educate them. I consider myself liberal on some social issues, but I feel like my compassion is something 'Objectivists' would call a personality flaw. Anyway, believing there are only Rulers and Peasants means you don't believe in the American Way. Just say you'd like to live in an aristocracy, where the wealthy rule, and don't be a coward about it, dressing it up in a cult's jargon. Because if that's where we're headed, count me among the 'milk' with rifles and hammers and brickbats at the ready, to rile up the 'useful idiots' and kill the neo-aristo movement in its crib, like the left-wing abortionist you'd imagine me to be. MB

  • I personally prefer the Tangerine Dream Score or Soundtrack to the Goldsmith score in the Director's cut or the Japanese Laserdisc release of Legend witht the Goldsmith score. But again the Seduction of Lily with the Bridal Gown. That was another sequence in Legend that I think was just totally forgotten and with the limitations of technology was really cool how Ridley executed it. The thing I like the most about the DANCING BRIDAL GOWN is before it "seduces" Lily it is I guess just this Dark Faceless Dress. It's cool how the whole head of the DANCING GOWN is just sort of Fabric Sparkly Black and that's it. It's so simple and effective but I think the creepiness of it works. A faceless being. What if there are creatures inside the Space Jockey Armored Bio-Suits and they have no faces. No eyes. Just really weird creepy Bio-mechanical organic head-looking things? I think somewhere i read too that Cameron made the comment that the Queen Alien's Crown was just a GIANT SENSING ORGAN. A sensing organ way beyond the 5 senses and something humans probably couldn't understand. A different type of intelligence. If that's true in his design ideas I really like that idea. When I watch Legend I get the feeling that it really wanted to be much more and there was this wall stopping it saying "This is as far as the effects technology will allow you to go combined with your budget." I wonder if Ridley has any angst left in him to reinvent any of the cool ideas from Legend into Prometheus. Regardless of what people say about Legend it did have some cool ideas even if they weren't executed as well as modern day effects sequences. THE MIRROR SEQUENCE, THE DANCING GOWN, MEG MUCKLEBONES were all brilliant ideas for the time the were made in.

  • April 17, 2011, 3:41 p.m. CST


    by john

    I couldn't agree with you more that people can't be trusted. What you fail to realize is like the corporations that can't be trusted neither can the GOVERNMENT. POWER corrupts all men absolutely. If you think that regulations are great because they keep everything equal than you truely do not have any idea how capitalism and a free market enterprise work. Not only would the original creator of an idea benefit from the implementation but it would also have other benefits. In the film gas is $37 a gallon, by having a more efficient rail system which was the method of transportation, maybe they can transport heart transplants that much faster and efficient and then with the previous system thus saving more lives. The benefits from this new creation are endless. If the other companies are fools and do not implement the technology in their own companies than they will go bankrupt, only the strong will survive.... thats capitalism and a free market. The FOUNDING FATHERS also stated we as citizens of the US are entitled to equal OPPORTUNITY not equal MATERIALS. So explain to me why you believe in governement regulation and tell me of another country that has a better economic setup than capitalism.

  • What are the odds old Coach is a Rand fan?

  • April 17, 2011, 3:47 p.m. CST


    by micturatingbenjamin

    Commenting on the internet about bringing about the downfall of society is pretty low irony, but it's still a fucking hoot. I can't wait until real anarchy happens, and Mohawk and his crew use you for a public toilet. Regulations suck? Fucking move, dude. People on dialysis should pay their way or die? Fuck, I wish cancer on your fucking colon. I wish you have a need that you cannot fulfill without your fellow man, and at that time of need? I hope you get that help, all the help you need to keep on living, man. Unlike you, I don't fucking spew death as the only option. Luckily, and thank the stars for this, selfish fucks like you are in the minority. Thank Jesus and his socialist bullshit that this is so. I like clean water. And I don't mind paying my bill for it. I like safe streets, and don't mind paying my very fucking little bill for it. Shit, man, you don't like the rules, don't live by them. De-Regulate your water use by digging your own pipeline to the fucking lake nearby and get your own water. Drive your car off the streets that taxes pay for, and into the freedom of the median. But I guarantee you, for all your big balls talk you still pay taxes, like all the little bitches who pay their taxes. You still use roads, electricity, and a government-built internet to talk shit. You're just jealous the really fucking wealthy don't have to put up with the bullshit. Stay jealous, stay impotent. I'm actually happy with my lot. Which makes guys like you fucking mad for some reason. I don't get that. I make enough to keep my family in a nice house, and with a car, and a vacation somewhere warm once a year. I don't need to fucking have everything in the goddamned universe. I have what I need. I hope for more, but don't think that my one singular instance in this culture is worth more than another's instance. Which means, yeah, I pay taxes and social security, and figure it will all work out, or it won't. I'll never be a millionaire, unless I win a lottery or make a mint off my business somehow, and unless you started saving at age 16 -- you WILL NOT BE SUPER RICH by WORK ALONE. Sorry. Math sucks. Reality bites....and the hippies are winning. Stay happy, man. MB

  • April 17, 2011, 4:01 p.m. CST

    The "Founding Fathers"...

    by BryonMorrigan

    The Founding Fathers were a bunch of Classical Liberals. At the time, they were considered "Radical Leftists," as the term "Right-Wing" was originally coined during the French Revolution to denote those who supported Monarchy and the "Status Quo." The Founding Fathers views were decidedly Left-Wing, though Laissez-Faire Capitalism was considered "Left" during that time period. Some of the Founding Fathers, like Thomas Paine, for example, were even MORE Left-Wing than the rest. Read his tract, "Agrarian Justice," to see an example of "Proto-Socialism." ( He was also extremely Anti-Christian, as anyone who's ever read his book, "The Age of Reason," would know...but that's another subject altogether. Conservatism, and Right-Wing politics in general, are by definition the adherence to either the status-quo (Conservatism), or the idea that we should move backwards to a "better" time (Reactionary/Far Right). It has nothing to do with "small government" or "collectivism vs. individualism," as there are "Small Gov't" Leftists (Anarchists, Black Bloc, etc.) and "Big Gov't" Conservatives (Christian Right, Anti-Gay Activists, Islamic Fundamentalists). Again...READ A BOOK. Besides, if the Founding Fathers were alive today, what they'd really say is, "Arrrrgh! Let me out of this coffin!" ;)

  • April 17, 2011, 4:07 p.m. CST

    I loved Ridley Scott's LEGEND

    by D.Vader

    And I definitely prefer Tangerine Dream's score for the Dancing Gown sequence, anyway. I've got that track on my iPod.

  • April 17, 2011, 4:08 p.m. CST

    creepythinman, yeah, what a field they have!


    -Mitt Romney, the Reagan-as-mannequin huckster who has not one discernible principle other than the financial or political advancement of Mitt Romney. -Tim Pawlenty, who's Romney-lite when it comes to his slippery, shifty ideology, and blander than shredded wheat gone soggy in skim milk. -Sarah Palin, who can't be counted on to use facts, let alone form a coherent sentence. -Michele Bachmann, who's like a psychotic Sarah Palin on a cocktail of meth, coke and whip-its. -Mike Huckabee, who's a Dukakis-like doofus, if Dukakis had strongly held convictions rooted in a medievalist view of women, science and reason. -Donald Trump, who has all the idiotic bluster, thinly veiled racism and incomprehensibly "common" appeal of Bachmann, Palin and Huckabee, while appearing to be a "businessman" like Romney (although I'll give Mittens this: He is a cold, calculating business man who makes money. It may be at the expense of working people, but the guy was great at his job, which was making more money for soul-less rich cocksuckers like himself.)

  • April 17, 2011, 4:15 p.m. CST

    I did leave out one, though: Jon Huntsman


    Before the Rove/Dubya/culture warrior meltdown the GOP has encountered since 2000, Huntsman would be head and shoulders above the GOP field. He's a pragmatic fiscal conservative who is willing and eager to deal with the folks on the other side of the aisle. As a Mormon, he's a social conservative in his personal life but understands that not everyone shares his views, and so he's more amenable and pragmatic when it comes to social legislation than his Republican cohorts. He has executive experience as the governor of Utah, and he has foreign policy experience as the U.S. envoy to China. But the GOP has already written him off. Why? Because he served in a decidedly nonpartisan foreign policy role in the Obama administration. Remember when working with the other party was considered a political asset?

  • April 17, 2011, 4:17 p.m. CST

    wow, so much ignorance on display here...

    by Detached

    so conservatism has "nothing to do with" "collectivism (statism) vs individualism"- ? that's rich. and that's just the first one. somebody could write an entire book- probably more like a series of books - on the massive errors in just a few post by just one person. of course, i should expect no less when it comes to political "discourse" on aicn. cluelessness reigns supreme among multitudes of posters here.

  • April 17, 2011, 4:28 p.m. CST


    by macheesmo3

    It's both amusing (and disheartening) that so many people seem to think they know how things work yet are unable to demonstrate any actual conceptual evidence to support it.... You people don't understand economics at all. It's a complex system, with BILLIONS of variables all influencing the other. These variables are so complicated as to not be under the control of some evil world bank conspiracy.( The rich ,of course, have been and WILL ALWAYS BE, the target for those who are either lazy, unlucky or made career choices that don't lend themselves to making much $$$$... ) True someone can corner a market for a few days (Soros I think did that with silver a few decades ago) but overall it's each individuals financial behavior that is to blame. If you have a 401k (or a Roth IRA) you are investing in mutual funds,stocks,bonds...etc So of course, you want these instruments to increase in value causing your account to grow. When they either lie stagnant or lose value you ,most probably, are going to restructure by dropping the losing funds and picking up others you hope to grow. (or you just bitch about it and hope it gets better.... prolly a good bit of the public does the latter). So you are now following the exact same pattern of success as a corporation. You are driving to increase wealth and making changes (sometimes drastic changes) when this goal is not being met. So, in other words, the behavior of the rich and the corporations isn't anathema to you cuz you do the same damn thing. It's the results you don't like because you are jealous and want a solid gold house and a rocket car too!!! Next part: The avg US citizen is overcome with debt. Not due to the inability to feed,clothe ,shelter and transport themselves but rather due to their own greed and lack of financial responsiblity. How can a family of 4 go from a single income to dual incomes and yet increase their debt? Too much spending and not enough saving. If yer combined income is $80,000 you should not both have $35,000 cars, live in a $550,000 home and have 5 $2500 TV's. (not to mention all the ancillary spending ). You buy $400 sunglasses for yer kids, and designer jeans for a 3 yr old because you wanted to portray an "image" of wealth to the world instead of being personally financially responsible. Now,it's not just middle class people who do this , as everybody is guilty of trying to create a psuedo-wealth image of some sort. Hence we have too much debt, have become overly reliant on credit and have created a climate of self absorbed debt spending where if we can't pay for it "oh well I will just file bankruptcy" Thats a terrible climate to live in. Saving 25% of you salary and investing it , living in a $180,000 house and having 2 used cars that cost $30,000 combined could lead to actual wealth at retirment at age 55 or so! But nope we want everything and we want it now.... This is the same type of mentality that led to credit default swaps and the big economic flustercluck. People tried to run banks the same way they ran their homes and overleveraged and got caught with their pants down. My only beef is that they should have been allowed to fail. Nothing is ever to big to fail. In closing, be a financially responsible individual , if you have extra cash, donate to charities. They are much better at providing for the poor than ANY govt program EVER has. Try not to be an a-hole and take a walk out in the woods now and again so you don't lose your appreciation for nature. Create a world you want to live in, don't expect govt to do it for you!

  • April 17, 2011, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Oh and btw......

    by macheesmo3

    I care what a Canadian thinks about our system of govt about as much as a bacteria cares for American Idol.

  • April 17, 2011, 4:30 p.m. CST


    by BryonMorrigan

    I have a Master's Degree in History, and am working on a Ph.D. My statements are backed up by fact. There are plenty of "Collectivist" Conservatives, and plenty of "Individualist" Leftists. Sorry, but you really need to read a book or two. Turn off the Glenn Beck. I can have an intelligent conversation with INTELLIGENT Conservatives...but ones who don't even know what the word "Conservative" means are hopeless. Generally, modern Conservatives in the USA are EXTREMELY "Statist" when it comes to social issues. Religion, LGBT rights, abortion, etc. They LOVE regulation and "Big Gov't" when it comes to implementing their social agenda.

  • April 17, 2011, 4:37 p.m. CST

    "The film hinges on the idea..."

    by BurnHollywood

    "...that when a wealthy steel magnate designs a new type of steel that will facilitate heavier trains moving faster and a railroad baroness tries to use them to replace a crumbling, 100 year old line prone to train derailments, a group of bureaucrats decide that this is unfair competition to all the existing steel companies and must be stopped – for the good of the country." One year before ATLAS SHRUGGED was published, a communist/socialist experiment called the Interstate Highway System was initiated by noted Trotskyian Dwight D. Eisenhower and his Bolshevik cronies in the Detroit auto sector, as well as a number of icommies operating under the guise of national transport companies. One would think that if ever there was an "unfair competition" for the supposedly rail-obsessed steel companies, that would be the one... Ho hum. Rand was a noisy idiot, as are all her fans, including the most destructive one to date, Alan Greenspan. What else is new?

  • April 17, 2011, 4:40 p.m. CST

    the_choppah: Mike Huckabee and The Donald

    by lv_426

    I suppose these two are potential candidates because we all know some of the worst threats to this country are Obama's birth certificate and Natalie Portman's out of wedlock pregnancy.

  • April 17, 2011, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Political mudslinging on the internet — the debate goes on, since 1995

    by Dr. Egon Spengler

    Haven't any of you learned? Do any of you really think you'll change some anonymous dude's political leanings/opinion—on the internet? My favorite question: What's the point?

  • April 17, 2011, 4:50 p.m. CST


    by Detached

    "Government is not the solution- government is the problem." Sound familiar? Ronald Reagan, the patron saint of modern conservatives. I've been reading/studying history for decades, and I never watch Beck. Drop the ad hominem nonsense. And what you call "big government conservatives" is a huge error in & of itself. The term refers to big *spending* conservatives- NOT social conservatives. Social conservatives are just that- taking a position on certain social issues. Hate to break it to you, but you don't get to determine who are "intelligent" conservatives and who are not.

  • April 17, 2011, 4:54 p.m. CST

    The Ant Bully is about COMMUNISTS!!

    by shitstorm23

    People think the guy who said that is a liberal?

  • April 17, 2011, 4:55 p.m. CST

    I'll have you know, creepythinmanlives, we're a BANKING PLUTOCRACY...

    by BurnHollywood

    ...*Not* simply a Corporate/Military Plutocracy. Wall Street, and especially Goldman Sachs, went through a lot of trouble to make sure they employ both our President and the Speaker Of The House, and are also busting their butts to make it look like fellow employee Mitt Romney will be his political adversary in the event that Obama disappoints his employers. Give credit where credit's due. This kind of a scam takes a lot of work, by a lot of dedicated employees in Washington and New York.

  • April 17, 2011, 4:58 p.m. CST

    [SIGH] Detached...

    by BryonMorrigan

    So? Ronald Reagan said something a few decades ago...and he identifies as "Conservative," so that means that "Conservatism" equals what he said? The logical fallacies involved in that statement are enormous. You do realize that the word "Conservative" existed prior to Ronald Reagan, right? The word "Big Government" refers to government intrusion into things. Social Conservatism is about forcing or rewarding certain social issues (religion, sexuality, morality, culture) through government intrusion, and yes...usually involving [GASP] spending. Jeez, I'll bet you're one of those Historical Revisionists that thinks that MLK was a "Conservative" and Hitler was a "Liberal."

  • April 17, 2011, 4:58 p.m. CST

    by lv_426

    "I personally prefer the Tangerine Dream Score or Soundtrack to the Goldsmith score in the Director's cut or the Japanese Laserdisc release of Legend witht the Goldsmith score." I actually prefer the Goldsmith score and the director's cut of Legend, but the Tangerine Dream score is still awesome. It is the way I first saw Legend so many years ago, so I'll always love TD's music in that film too. "But again the Seduction of Lily with the Bridal Gown. That was another sequence in Legend that I think was just totally forgotten and with the limitations of technology was really cool how Ridley executed it. The thing I like the most about the DANCING BRIDAL GOWN is before it "seduces" Lily it is I guess just this Dark Faceless Dress. It's cool how the whole head of the DANCING GOWN is just sort of Fabric Sparkly Black and that's it. It's so simple and effective but I think the creepiness of it works. A faceless being. What if there are creatures inside the Space Jockey Armored Bio-Suits and they have no faces. No eyes. Just really weird creepy Bio-mechanical organic head-looking things?" That would be interesting. Sort of how the xenomorphs take on characteristics of their hosts, the jockeys are faceless, pure intellect like HG Wells' big headed Martians that went down the path of supreme intellect, thus diminishing their physical bodies. "I think somewhere i read too that Cameron made the comment that the Queen Alien's Crown was just a GIANT SENSING ORGAN. A sensing organ way beyond the 5 senses and something humans probably couldn't understand. A different type of intelligence. If that's true in his design ideas I really like that idea." I've always thought the xenomorphs were telepathic or had some sort of ESP connection and communication between the queen and the individual members of the hive. Surely a lot of their actions were instinctual, but what if the aliens ESP caused them to gain intelligence as their numbers grew? "When I watch Legend I get the feeling that it really wanted to be much more and there was this wall stopping it saying "This is as far as the effects technology will allow you to go combined with your budget." On the behind the scenes stuff on the Legend Ultimate Edition DVD, it seems it was a hard shoot and then they had a fire on one of the sets, so that probably set them back some in terms of getting things done on time and within budget. "I wonder if Ridley has any angst left in him to reinvent any of the cool ideas from Legend into Prometheus. Regardless of what people say about Legend it did have some cool ideas even if they weren't executed as well as modern day effects sequences. THE MIRROR SEQUENCE, THE DANCING GOWN, MEG MUCKLEBONES were all brilliant ideas for the time the were made in." Legend is one of my favorite fantasy films. It is so different from other great ones like Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Conan the Barbarian. I think it is definitely an under appreciated film, because as far as pure fantasy film visuals go, nothing has surpassed Legend yet. The ultimate edition of Legend is coming to Blu-ray in May. I am hoping for a stellar transfer. You are right when you say that darkness is killed in almost the same way as the alien was in Alien. I suppose they either couldn't think of anything better, or couldn't accomplish what they might have originally planned back in the mid 80's, so Ridley just used the alien going out the airlock as a starting point and they worked that concept into Legend's finale. It is also interesting that in Blade Runner, there is a shot in one of the spinners of a screen showing a "purge" graphic with a countdown that was exactly like a shot from Alien. Ridley obviously reused it. I wonder if that was one of the things that got people theorizing that Blade Runner and Alien take place in the same fictional universe?

  • April 17, 2011, 4:59 p.m. CST

    oopps, meant to address the above post to darth_kong

    by lv_426

    but it says no subject.

  • April 17, 2011, 5:09 p.m. CST


    by lv_426

    I wouldn't vote for Huckabee just because of that creepy picture of him and his family in the stripped shirts, let alone that he is a moron. Don't go to the link below if you don't want to see something frightening.

  • April 17, 2011, 5:14 p.m. CST

    I was a huge fan of Rand in college

    by Bobo_Vision

    I've grown since. Her politics aside, both personally and in her books, there are still some things of value in some of her books. For example, in The Fountainhead, the mentality of parasites and conformity is something that holds true today in different levels of society. The protagonist was an architect who bucked the trends and followed his own style. This made the conformists angry and they wanted to destroy him for it. <p> This pretty much summarizes fashion....and hipsters.

  • April 17, 2011, 5:20 p.m. CST


    by macheesmo3

    You are right you ARE just a Canadian. I do think that my country is the best in the world. Because it's my country. (I would expect nothing less from any citizen of any other country). But I'm also smart enough to know that idealism is a fools game. Nothing is going to be perfect. Hoping for perfection and then screaming at like minded souls about how evil everybody is is foolish at best and pathetic at worst..... It serves no purpose and makes the screamer appear irrational and their opinions useless. The system ain't perfect. It's full of corruption, inefficiencies , moves at the speed of smell and rarely does anything of much merit. However, if efficiency, speed and effective govt, may I suggest a dictatorship? This has been proven to do all of the above rather well. Now the results for the masses.... not so well. It's not perfect here. It's not fair all the time (but I don't recall life ever being fair, nor there being a promise of fairness in the Constitution). However, we have the freedom to express our distaste of things. The freedoms to elect our leadership and the freedoms to try and become what ever it is we ,as an individual, want to become. That's a mighty fine system and until something better comes along, I see no reason to abandon it now. I just would like to preserve the rights of the indivdual and be less worried about the"collective". If individuals spent more time being worried about themselves and their own responsibilties and less about what their neighbor is up to (be that neighbor rich or poor) I think we'd solve many of our present issues...... But alas, in our present culture of reality TV and pundit's harping across desks at each other... I don't think it's bound to come to fruition any time soon.....

  • April 17, 2011, 5:20 p.m. CST


    by jimmy_009

    I was talking about Wall Street and the banks going unchecked and pile driving our country in the ground, ruining people's lives, all in the name of greed. I was big into Ayn Rand when I was 19 or 20. It's all well and good until you actually live in the real world for a while. After I see what greed run amok looks like, and still looks like, you can bet I want more government oversight and the rich paying their fair share instead of getting off scott free because they've been given loopholes. When GE pays no taxes, when millionaires and billionaires pay 17% on their income while people scraping to get by pay even more, when 1 in 8 Americans are on food stamps because of how fucked the economy is. When my kid can't even go to kindergarten anymore because my school district can't afford it (but the superintendents can make half a million dollars a year). Yeah, FUCK GREED and fuck the gullible assholes like I used to be that promote the riches propaganda FOR them. Suckers. You are all suckers if you think unchecked greed is a good thing.

  • April 17, 2011, 5:21 p.m. CST

    Fuck the rich and here's why...

    by jimmy_009

    I was big into Ayn Rand when I was 19 or 20. It's all well and good until you actually live in the real world for a while. After I see what greed run amok looks like, and still looks like, you can bet I want more government oversight and the rich paying their fair share instead of getting off scott free because they've been given loopholes. When GE pays no taxes, when millionaires and billionaires pay 17% on their income while people scraping to get by pay even more, when 1 in 8 Americans are on food stamps because of how fucked the economy is. When my kid can't even go to kindergarten anymore because my school district can't afford it (but the superintendents can make half a million dollars a year). Yeah, FUCK GREED and fuck the gullible assholes like I used to be that promote the riches propaganda FOR them. Suckers. You are all suckers if you think unchecked greed is a good thing.

  • April 17, 2011, 5:23 p.m. CST

    okay, byron, you're hopeless...

    by Detached

    I thought we could have an intelligent conversation. Boy, was I wrong.

  • April 17, 2011, 5:25 p.m. CST

    Oh and one more thing.

    by jimmy_009

    When I do everything right, work a good job, and buy a nice house for my family, but then my house loses $70k of value because some FUCKHEAD rich dicks were given free reign to do whatever they fucking pleased. Yeah, FUCK THE RICH and anyone that puts them above the middle class.

  • April 17, 2011, 5:25 p.m. CST

    massa's parents...

    by Noddy93

    "My parents are WAY to the right of me. They have a framed picture of them hugging Glen Beck"<br><br> holy moly... that makes them to the wrong of you. Beck is not 'right' of anything. a money grubbing fear monger is a nothing... <br><br> regardless, I'm the rare bird that is Libertarian (albeit Libertarian from the left [was even county chair '90-'92]) that thinks that Ayn Rand was a fucking terrible writer.

  • April 17, 2011, 5:34 p.m. CST

    lv_426: Alien - Blade Runner connection...

    by Darth_Kong

    In the Alien audio commentary, I think it's the same one from the Alien Quadrilogy and the Alien Anthology, Ridley refers to ASH as a REPLICANT. To me both films feel as if they are from the same universe or at the very least cut from the same cloth. All I'm saying in all my ramblings is look, don't be surprised if you see one or two recycled ideas from Legend in Prometheus that are done with up-to-date effects technology. If it happens that wouldn't bother me at all. If it doesn't, BOO HYPHEN HOO. I am still on the fence if this is going to be two movies so Ridley in a sense has his ALIENverse Trilogy with Blade Runner as a prequel of sorts. If its one film great, I would rather have two. But you have to ask yourself, is it two movies and they're just leading us on to believe it's one? I mean Ridley was quoted as saying it was a big movie or big film. I mean haven't they shot in Canada and England? Maybe Morocco if the rumors are correct? It's weird too because on Daniel Simon's blog he has Prometheus listed as ALIEN Untitled Prequel #1. Check it out, right side of screen.

  • April 17, 2011, 5:36 p.m. CST

    Jimmy 09...

    by Detached

    ... you clearly have no idea how the financial system works if you think "the RICH!!!!!" caused your house's value to fall.

  • April 17, 2011, 5:45 p.m. CST

    what else do we expect, of course you wouldn't get it

    by abe

    With all the other crap you foist on us that you LOVE - all the drivel, useless, worthless stuff - what else would we expect when something even attempting at TRUTH comes along? You're part of this useless, stupid, and lazy generation that would rather have the pablum Obangyomama than deal with the harsh realities and solve the actual problems. Don't heed the warning of the 2x4 hitting you between the eyes.

  • April 17, 2011, 6:50 p.m. CST

    All of this arguing...

    by 11ZOMBIES

    ...keeps me firmly ensconced in my beliefs as a political atheist. Republican? Democrat? You're all the same.

  • April 17, 2011, 6:54 p.m. CST

    darth_kong: at this point your guess is as good as mine

    by lv_426

    as to what Prometheus will end up being. I just hope it is good and entertaining and unique, whether or not it has big connections to Alien or not. I also wouldn't mind if Prometheus is just one film now that it is not being marked with the Alien franchise name. That way we might get The Forever War adaptation from Ridley, because I doubt he would do both if Prometheus is two back to back films.

  • April 17, 2011, 7 p.m. CST

    Might check it out

    by Marat

    Politics, ahahahaha.

  • April 17, 2011, 7:07 p.m. CST


    by jimmy_009

    yes the people that fucked over the country were rich assholes. Banks and the assholes that thought it was cool to repeal regulations that had been in place since the thirties (because government interference is SO bad (thank you Phil Gramm AND Bill Clinton). Yes, the economic implosion was due to rich bank fuckers who raked in as much cash as they could before the whole thing went under, then paid no consequences and had to get CHARITY from the American people. While at the same time touting the glory that is Ayn Rand no doubt. Fuck that. Again I say, anyone that lived through the last decade and thinks Ayn Rand, greed, objectivism, or any of that other bullshit is a good thing can go fuck themselves. On behalf of me and my family that those 'heroes' of capitalism fucked over royally.

  • April 17, 2011, 7:08 p.m. CST


    by Darth_Kong

    Yeah, your probably right. Unless they shoot both Prometheus movies at the same time, back to back. Or I'll be happy with a 4 hour Director's Cut on Blu-Ray. That would make me VERY HAPPY. 4 hours of Hard Biomechanical Science Fiction. I'll take The Forever War too. It's crazy though. I bet FOX's security budget on the film is enormous. I would think it would have to be. No cell phones on set just like INDY 4? Production Assistants confiscating cell phones from people caught using them on set. Are those guys Union?

  • April 17, 2011, 7:11 p.m. CST

    being altruistic is great...

    by fanboy71

    if you're using your own fucking money. The liberals idea of "spreading the wealth around" is bullshit. I will see this in theaters just because it pisses liberals off. Maybe it will balance out my karma after sitting through Avatar.

  • April 17, 2011, 7:13 p.m. CST

    Oh and detached...

    by jimmy_009

    ...I bet I know a lot more than you about how the financial system works and why the economy tanked because it actually affected me in a big way. I watched the whole thing unfold as my 401k tanked and my house became virtually worthless. Unlike your ass that's probably in college and being propped up by your parents. Easy to spout off about shit when you don't actually have to live with consequences.

  • April 17, 2011, 7:25 p.m. CST


    by Darth_Kong


  • April 17, 2011, 7:47 p.m. CST

    Massawyrm, don't let those people get you down.

    by Lobanhaki2

    The problem for many people, whether they're conservatives, liberals, Christians, Atheists, or whatever, is that they never move beyond what they believe. They fall for the biggest lie in the book, which is that what they feel about the work will translate across in the product. But all adaptations must interpret and reinterpret the work. From book to film, especially. Even if you're talking dividing up that doorstep Ayn Rand wrote into three sections, you're still talking 3-400 pages, where your average two hour screenplay runs 120. If you love the book, you have to kill your darlings, and ironically in this case, the Randians fail to be so ruthless. They fail to consider that Rand was dealing with a different world. They could just as well have de-emphasized the whole rail thing, and focus on materials science. A supermetal, as described in the book, could be used in Aircraft Engines, car engines, or whatever. But part of the problem also is that our friend Ayn Rand writes these things as Polemics, with a healthy dose of self importance in there for good measures. Her heroes and heroines are great people who can walk all over other people, be douchebags, (and if they're men) show their sexual prowess by raping the object of their "affection", because they're so superior. Leaving aside the question of whether or not such a person who has great skills, knowledge and talent comes across all that well, what about all those folks who could make you rich if you bought them for what they're worth, and sold them for the price they thought they could fetch? Does Rand's philosophy do you much good if the people who follow it think they are Gary Cooper, but turn out to be Charlie Sheen? What happens when the Elitists turn out to be the takers and moochers they accuse everybody else of being? And really, what of this fantasy of "Going Galt?" Let me tell you what would really happen with this happy horseshit: It wouldn't stop the world on its axis. People would just figure out things for themselves, learn to run the world themselves. More to the point, the competitors to these self-important people go taking their vacations would simply slide in and take their place, and the world would keep on turning as it long has. The "Galt" folks wouldn't be missed. We've seen the consequences of policies that assume that the gratification of individual interest is the best thing for the economy. The truth is, all economies depend on exchanges, and not all of those exchanges work out for the better when you play them zero-sum. If somebody sells you a product, you want it to work. Your goal isn't to let somebody make a profit at your expense by using shoddy materials and poor design. If somebody sells you a stock, you want it to be in good faith. You want your broker to have done their homework, and have done it to serve your interests as a client. If somebody aims a movie at you as part of an audience, you don't want to walk out of it feeling like you got robbed.

  • April 17, 2011, 8 p.m. CST

    Jimmy, you're dead wrong

    by Detached

    The housing bubble happened (as virtually all bubbles do) for a variety of reasons: *The historically low interest rates following the 2000-2001 recession, which included low mortgage rates, which of course made houses more affordable; *Government geniuses like Barney Frank who screwed around with Fannie & Freddie (even Maxine Waters later admitted "We thought everyone should own a home, and we were wrong"); *And the PUBLIC getting involved, flipping houses, driving prices up, buying houses they couldn't afford (along with idiot brokers who sold them)... ... among other things, including securitization of mortgages. But the role of deregulation is overrated in this particular case. The market is virtually always ahead of regulators anyway. The silly attacks on the banks, etc, are just that- silly. Not a single criminal charge has been brought - and believe, if Washington - both parties- could have brought charges, they would have. But it will happen because nothing illegal was actually done- it was just a mania, like we've often had through history. By the way, I'm no college student (nice ad hominem nonsense there). I'm 55 and own my second house. And I've been in the markets for years and years, including the derivatives market, & I've studied the housing bubble. So I have some idea whereof I speak. And, I also manage retirement money for people. I sold everything for everyone long before the market cratered. So dream on about lecturing me on this situation. Just because you're in the situation millions of other Americans find themselves hardly makes you an expert on what led to the housing bubble.

  • For the record, I'm not a conservative, but It's shocking that you're stupid enough to think liberals "have hearts" and conservatives don't. You're a sheep. The liberal politicians WANT people to stay poor - those are automatic votes. Just like the right panders to the religious. It's like saying the right has faith and the left doesn't, or can't. Dumb fucking sheep - on both sides.

  • April 17, 2011, 8:14 p.m. CST


    by lv_426

    "Did Cameron make Spider-Man in your alternate reality, too?" Nope. He didn't have anything to do with it. I bet you'll never guess who directed Spider-Man in the Titor-verse. Joel Schumacher. It was just as bad as the Schumacher Batman films you guys got. Can anyone say spider nipples? "Anyway, I always thought that Woo would have been a great choice for Alien Resurrection myself. He's about the only guy who could have possibly upped the action ante over Aliens. David Cronenberg would have been a good choice, also. Did you know Peter Jackson was actually offered Resurrection and turned it down?" Yeah, Woo's Alien Resurrection was pretty awesome. As for Peter Jackson, in the Titor-verse, he made King Kong in 1998. Universal wanted to go head to head with Emmerich's Godzilla, which for some reason was an even worse film in the Titor-verse but made more money than your universe's version did. I don't know how to explain that one. King Kong did really well too. After Kong's success, Jackson then went on to make his other dream project, The Hobbit, which was a massive flop oddly enough. He used actual midgets for the hobbits and dwarves, so maybe that had something to do with it. Because of The Hobbit's dismal box office performance, we didn't get any Lord of the Rings films nor any big fantasy films. I was different than what he is doing now with the defunct Del Toro Hobbit, but I liked it. I can't wait to see the new one and compare the two. Instead of Lord of the Rings, Jackson had to do a smaller film before he could do another big budget studio film to get back on track. He made a strange almost magical realist film about an alcoholic circus performer who can hear voices when he is drunk. These voices tell him what people in his immediate area are thinking. It was an indie smash around the world, kinda like Heavenly Creatures was. He was also attached to Starship Troopers during all of this, which after going through all nine levels of development hell, ended up as a totally different and more serious (but still with that Peter Jackson whimsy) version than your timeline got with Verhoeven's satire. Starship Troopers, along with The Strongman, were both big enough hits to put Jackson back on the cinematic map again. That is why I am glad I can time travel and universe hop to see these awesome films that the Hollywood of my timeline either fucked up or just didn't produce.

  • April 17, 2011, 8:23 p.m. CST

    The Canadian dollar is trading higher than the US dollar

    by Bobo_Vision

    1 Canadian dollar currently equals 1.04 US dollars. The US dollar is actually in trouble because Obama has been printing money and flooding the market with US dollars, and they will be devalued and part of the decline of the US economy.

  • April 17, 2011, 8:27 p.m. CST

    AICN... proving the two party system is being broken more every day

    by ClaireRedfield

    Apparently, Massawyrm can't have a fucking independent thought and still be a republican. What a shocker. Is it any wonder mostl politicians are such unabashed lairs? Gotta toe the line, or GTFO.

  • April 17, 2011, 8:59 p.m. CST


    by lv_426

    Right you are sir. Crusade was awesome. I didn't know you were a temporal agent as well. You must be on a completely different mission. Whatever you do, don't tell them about what happened to M. Night Shyamalan's film career. I don't think they can take it.

  • April 17, 2011, 9:08 p.m. CST

    God, Arnie

    by D.Vader

  • April 17, 2011, 9:09 p.m. CST

    God, Arnie's "Crusade" would have been so damn epic

    by D.Vader

    And so would Ridley Scott's "I Am Legend" starring Arnie. AND John Milius' "King Conan". Gorramnit, I want to live in that timeline instead of the one where he picked "End of Days" instead.

  • April 17, 2011, 9:22 p.m. CST

    Arnold is looking old and haggardly

    by Bobo_Vision

    He looks like a bulkier Roger Moore. His film career isn't going to be a return to form of the 80's Arnie. This is pale, wrinkled, and shriveled Arnie. Have a look: <p>

  • April 17, 2011, 9:23 p.m. CST


    by D.Vader

  • ...given his own past statements that during his formative years the single biggest influence on his becoming an economist was reading Asimov's Foundation Trilogy, particularly it's idea that a small select elite could completely control society through manipulating a few grand equations. As the old saying goes, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

  • If for no other reason than the existence of these movies apparently iritates the hell out of so many people.

  • April 17, 2011, 9:47 p.m. CST

    Oh well, as they say in Thailand

    by MoffatBabies

    If you can't make it to Bank Thong... Phuket. Sorry, I've been waiting to write that somewhere all day. G'nite, also-Rands.

  • April 17, 2011, 9:48 p.m. CST

    The film doesnt even register as an irritant for me

    by MoffatBabies

    what inspired it, that's another story.

  • April 17, 2011, 9:50 p.m. CST

    They made us read this bullshit in high school

    by Terrence

    Now everytime I hear anything related to the book I just slowly start to seethe.

  • April 17, 2011, 9:56 p.m. CST


    by Darth_Kong

    The one really crazy off the wall idea I keep thinking about is what if the GIANT HEAD piloting the ship has all these serpent like creatures for it's biomechanical brain then we see some of them leave the brain of the Giant Head and enter a Space Jockey Bio-Armor suit? Then the Space Jockey battles Charlize Theron's character who is wearing her own battle suit. This is how crazy I want to see Prometheus and all of this dark and evil biomechanical technology. Something this bizarre has to happen. I need to see something this cool. PLEASE RIDLEY. PLEASE. Every LAME idea has been tried in science fiction and it has a MEH FACTOR of 9.5. BTW i always liked the idea in the STARSHIP TROOPERS NOVEL of there being three types of battle suits. I think they are, SCOUT MARAUDER COMMAND if I'm not mistaken.

  • April 17, 2011, 9:57 p.m. CST

    and by the way, have you people heard of this thing

    by MoffatBabies

    called a JAB? That's what Massa took at you, and you're reading it literally. Hilarious. The Literal Web strikes again! Aspergers HO! Conservatives being heartless is a common joke. If you take it that seriously, you might want to check for a pulse just in case.

  • April 17, 2011, 9:59 p.m. CST

    I think a King Conan would still work well today

    by D.Vader

    With a wrinkly, old, haggard King Conan that still kicks everyone's ass. Hey, Clint Eastwood does it.

  • April 17, 2011, 10:04 p.m. CST

    d.vader-- re: old, haggard heroes

    by StarWarsRedux

    It worked for Solid Snake in the last MGS game, too.

  • April 17, 2011, 10:22 p.m. CST

    So Nordling

    by pauduro


  • April 17, 2011, 11:37 p.m. CST

    Never did play the new Metal Gear, StarWarsRedux

    by D.Vader

    But Snake did look badass as always. Its something Arnie could still pull off.

  • April 17, 2011, 11:55 p.m. CST

    "That’s because they’re liberals, Sean. They have hearts."

    by frankenberry

    Really, Massawyrm? You really think liberals have hearts and conservatives don't have hearts? Wow. Conservatives may very well be narrow-minded, but I'm willing to bet liberals are too.

  • April 17, 2011, 11:55 p.m. CST

    "That’s because they’re liberals, Sean. They have hearts."

    by frankenberry

    Really, Massawyrm? You really think liberals have hearts and conservatives don't have hearts? Wow. Conservatives may very well be narrow-minded, but I'm willing to bet liberals are too.

  • April 18, 2011, 1:22 a.m. CST

    The many lives of M Night

    by lv_426

    turd, have you been to the timeline where M Night became an actor and eventually a huge movie star? He was in like a ton of action movies, comedies, and a few epic Roland Emmerich disaster flicks. He did a Lethal Weapon reboot where he played the straightman role that Glover played, while Christian Bale was the wacky Mel Gibson type of wild card character. The timeline you mentioned where he was an alien, wasn't that the one where he made a ton of alien themed movies? Like five in a row, and people started to wonder what was up with him? He even wrote and directed a remake of War of the Worlds and Close Encounters of the Third Kind in that timeline if I am not mistaken?

  • April 18, 2011, 1:24 a.m. CST


    by lv_426

    If all the stuff you are theorizing about doesn't end up in Prometheus, you will have enough material for an entirely separate biomechanical science fiction film.

  • If they got to see the version of Total Recall that starred Patrick Swayze. Or how about Back to the Future starring Eric Stoltz? Or the Contra NES game to movie adaptation starring Arnold and Stallone, directed by John Milius? What about Commando II where Dolph Lundgren was the villain's top henchman? And the head villain turned out to be an old lady dictator played by Betty White?

  • April 18, 2011, 1:58 a.m. CST


    by D.Vader

    I think the point Massa was making was something more like "Hey, Sean, they're liberals, you shouldn't be surprised they have hearts." There's nothing that suggests one side should have them and the other not.

  • April 18, 2011, 2:37 a.m. CST

    Why Can't We All Just, Get Along?

    by Smack_Teddy

    Because every time you offer a open door and a hand to shake, some rich/moded fucker will stab you through the spine/chest/heart with the aim of claiming hierarchical dominance, ownership and destruction over everything just because they! Oh yeah and they're dicks/demons. Its in ALien/Human nature to pray on the weak/unarmed/non threat and take advantage endlessly with some bullshit sense of reason, and then kick up a furthur fuss if anyone has a problem with that! That's what i take from that great speech and the moment surrounding it in Mars Attacks

  • April 18, 2011, 2:38 a.m. CST

    just because they can dammit!

    by Smack_Teddy

  • April 18, 2011, 2:38 a.m. CST

    detached... you're part of the problem

    by JimmyJoe RedSky

    defending banks? - really? - the reason no charges were brought up is because the banks and wall street made their dealings legal by spending hundreds of millions to placate lawmakers in washington - thats what lobbyists do - they lobby to get what their employer wants - like no regulation - a completely unfettered free market - free to gamble with peoples money - free to bet on oil futures so the price of gas is artificially increased to $4 a gallon - just because the laws lean in their favor doesnt mean what the banks and wall street do is right

  • April 18, 2011, 2:43 a.m. CST


    by JimmyJoe RedSky

    you make the world a wretched place

  • April 18, 2011, 2:45 a.m. CST

    Turn in your geek cards!

    by Dr. Egon Spengler

    That goes for anyone who engaged in serious political debate in this talkback. There isn't a bigger buzzkill than geeks talking about politics in the presence of other geeks. Let's get back to making fun of the Green Lantern movie.

  • April 18, 2011, 6:48 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    That's good. And it leads me to think you just might have some redeeming quality in you.

  • April 18, 2011, 7:14 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    Thanks but I didn't think your finding some of her ideas intriguing at a young age to be outright agreement with her. And great points about the disparate treatment the wealthy get. Case in point - TSA body scanners and full body patdowns. No doubt you've seen the children being molested and psychologically scarred in the name of "security". Ordinary Americans being subjected to radiation without any protection whatsoever. Even TSA thugs stealing cash out of your luggage as you get put on a potential terrorist list just for protesting this treatment. Do the wealthy follow the same procedure? Of course not. They bypass all that on their way to their private jets. That's what American truly is - different rules for a different class.

  • April 18, 2011, 7:20 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    "Super-Six is down, took heavy fire from Canadian forces. Request immediate medical evac. Bzzt"

  • April 18, 2011, 7:52 a.m. CST

    "bonafide Randian"

    by DocPazuzu

    Not much room for interpretation there. Pretty absolute. <p> Let me guess. One of two things happened here to cause such a weak response: <p> 1) You scoured the entirety of AICN archives in vain looking for proof of that claim. <p> 2) You once again hoped I wouldn't show up and took the opportunity to spout an outright lie, thinking I'd never see it. <p> Knowing your slimy ways, I'm betting on the latter, BSB.

  • April 18, 2011, 8:04 a.m. CST

    "The Handmaid's Tale" kicks its ass...

    by extremetidal

    If we're talking speculative fiction here, and no, I don't mean the movies. I expect "Atlas Shrugged": the movie to suck. "The Handmaid's Tale" was an OK movie, but at least we got to look at Natasha Richardson (RIP). Who's in this one? Michael O'Keefe. That's your name? Really? I'm really surprised Kirk Cameron isn't in it... Anyway, back to the contrasts. "The Handmaid's Tale" is what will happen when all these religious freaks get their way and we have an American Theocracy. To me that's way more scary than Rand's pissing and moaning, and I am religious.

  • April 18, 2011, 9:11 a.m. CST

    Can't believe the number of right-wing geeks here

    by impossibledreamers

    In high school, it was the jerkoff football players who picked on geeks who were the right-wing types...

  • April 18, 2011, 11:06 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    My post was just a fun little snipe to smoke you out and annoy you, and force you to post a defense of yourself with practically no effort on my part. Since you know my slimy ways you must realize I enjoy toying with you. It's cute you thought I would put any effort into "scouring the entirety of AICN archives in vain looking for proof". You sure have a deluded and over-inflated sense of yourself, and your place in my world. Thanks for the laughs.

  • April 18, 2011, 11:13 a.m. CST

    "That’s because they’re liberals, Sean. They have hearts."

    by frankenberry

    Really, Massawyrm? You really think liberals have hearts and conservatives don't have hearts? Wow. Conservatives may very well be narrow-minded, but I'm willing to bet liberals are too.

  • April 18, 2011, 11:18 a.m. CST

    Oh, dear...

    by DocPazuzu

    "My post was just a fun little snipe to smoke you out and annoy you, and force you to post a defense of yourself with practically no effort on my part." <p> Embarrassing. I actually blushed a bit on your behalf. <p> Oh, and if you had actually read my post you would have seen that option 2 was the only one really worth considering. <p> Now go back to your tinfoil-hatted, jew-hating, birther conspiracy theories. And never forget: nothing that's wrong or difficult in your life is ever your fault. It's all the doing of that vast, dastardly Jewish cabal that's out to subjugate you and trip you up in all your endeavors.

  • April 18, 2011, 11:29 a.m. CST

    MASSA Valid Points and I'd be interested to hear

    by Wcwlkr

    Let me start by saying you're definitely my favorite reviewer on this site. Typically because your thoughts on the movies you see generally line up with mine. You definitely make valid points in regards to the ideals behind the Repuplican party. But it's definitely been a party that's been hijacked by the Right-Wing. I'm Democrat proud of it, but like you I can see the faults in my party as well. I'd be interested to hear your take on it. I know this isn't a political site just think it'd be interesting. The biggest problem with both sides is the Ideological wall that keeps both sides from having open discussions. I know we won't see eye to eye on everything, but we may get a better understanding and how to work together through actual conversation.

  • April 18, 2011, 11:32 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    Mmmm ... okay!

  • April 18, 2011, 11:35 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    There's no way Toyota would still be making the current model Camry in 2016. They have a strict model cycle of 4 years. Fail!

  • April 18, 2011, 12:39 p.m. CST

    Is Frankenberry stuck on repeat?

    by D.Vader

    Or is he a bit scratched?

  • April 18, 2011, 1:03 p.m. CST

    Some books...

    by Bret Kenyon

    ...just can't translate well to the screen. I loved "Atlas Shrugged" but cringe at the idea of a movie being made by folks of ANY political persuasion. But as to the core arguments, I think the only reason we don't have cigar smoking liberal fat cats is because they haven't figured out how to take the money from the cigar smoking republican fat cats. Yet. All these guys want the same thing, they just have different ways of manipulating the system to make it happen.

  • April 18, 2011, 3:15 p.m. CST

    I dont know how accurate is...

    by SK229

    But holy shit, this site has been on a downward slide for over a year. The biggest dips started coming with the, ahem... 'redesign' in December. Being that I noticed bigger TB's recently, I thought maybe things are on the upswing. Not according to that site... but again, I don't know how accurate they are. I know Harry's been out of commission, but I think the fact that there's no Thor reviews on this site sums it all up. Not to mention a shitload of other less movie news that I should have read here first... I've said it before, others have said it before, but deep down, I always knew it was bullshit and we'd keep coming back. This time, I think it's safe to say the end is nigh for AICN. That is, unless they take drastic measures and start adding new features, more news, and an actual worthwhile redesign.

  • April 18, 2011, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Ayn Rand... yeah, dat bitch crazy...

    by WriteForTheEdit

    Cartoonish ideas, cartoonish writing...

  • April 18, 2011, 5:26 p.m. CST


    by Detached

    Puh-leeze. Try learning how markets actually work.

  • April 18, 2011, 5:44 p.m. CST


    by Cruizer Dave

    Why do all the reviews of this movie attack the philosophy of it? It sounds like it's horrible enough, you wouldn't have to bring in your own views of how flawed objectivism is to tear this piece of crap apart. The problem is when you attack it's message, the people who support this stuff have the ammunition they need to say "See, SEE! They don't like it cuz they're liberals!" Just focus on the terrible production values and dry as sand in the Sahara script. Also, anyone who's out of high school should be smart enough to know that objectivism is an overly simplistic and stupid way to look at the world. SHOULD BE! Do we sometimes stifle innovation by trying to give entitlements to the poor? No question. However, do we also have major corporations figure out ways to not pay any taxes on billions of profits? Also, no question. The fact is the libs and the right wingers need to calm their rhetoric and actually discuss things. Wait, why am I posting this here? This is the birthplace of the phrase "raped my childhood" because of a movie.

  • April 18, 2011, 5:53 p.m. CST


    by JimmyJoe RedSky

    There is an alliance between Washington and Wall Street that is implementing policies that are destroying good-paying jobs and eroding hard-earned benefits. Jobs for regular middle class people. Clock punchers, not investment bankers. People that get a pay check every 2 weeks, no a six figure salary. The goal of this alliance between Washington and Wall street is to raise productivity and lower wages at the same time. Create a job market where workers work harder and produce more but do so for less and less pay. Not everyone in Washington plays ball in this game, but they're outnumbered and outgunned. This is happening right now. Why are labor unions suddenly being attacked by the right as the reason for our budget crisis? You are on the "winning" end of this scenario, judging by your glib attitude. Good for you. But at least have the balls to admit it. The system stinks, but only if you're on the shitty end. Right? Winner.

  • April 18, 2011, 8:18 p.m. CST

    Is says volumes about the Rayndians...

    by Mal Carne

    ...that it is *impossible* to talk about this movie being bad. Not that the subject's bad, but the actual movie-as-art being bad. There is a way to produce an Atlas Shrugged movie that might be more entertaining; I'm not sure what it is, but this probably isn't it. Having John Galt played by a raincoat - a casting choice straight out of "Plan 9 From Outer Space" - probably doesn't help. But that's the thing about the Randian cultist - you have to film the book *exactly* as it was written. Not even Jackson tried that with LoTR. Watchmen tried to do just that, and it suffered for it. And once her words are put on screen, they must be perfect, because the book was THE BOMB! Look, there's a reason that "the book was better" is a cliche, nuh? Look, even PJ O'Rourke thinks this was a stinker. Once the thing goes to DVD (a really, short trip, I suspect) play in on your TV with the sound off and watch it. It'll become apparent really quickly that this thing's a stinker.

  • April 18, 2011, 8:53 p.m. CST

    We use RINO's for a reason, Massa.

    by victor82

    Too bad. Get used to it. The reason why Bush left office at 34 percent in the polls was that he and Karl stood for trying to help their friends on Wall Street, fighting a War on Terror without paying for it, and tried to buy Old Folks with Part D Medicare by making debt peons of my kid and her kids. The Establishment Republicans are RINO's. RINO's are not the "philosophers" of the Party. They are opportunists who are mad at Obama because HIS pigs are feeding at the Hog Trough when the RINO hogs believe that THEIR pigs should be feeding at the Hog Trough. Sorry pal, we Movement Conservatives left Bush when we figured out that he couldn't fight a war properly. He and his RINO friends made Obama and his Joker Socialism possible. So yes, they're RINO's. BTW, you did hear that S&P put out a warning on our Government Debt today, didn't you? Two years, max, to get our shit together or our bonds get downgraded to AA. Hate to tell you this, massa, but it's Ayn Rand's world. You only live in it.

  • April 18, 2011, 9:23 p.m. CST

    the book is science fiction - like soylent green

    by JimmyJoe RedSky

  • April 18, 2011, 11:14 p.m. CST

    Is this Tea Party propaganda?

    by DoctorGustav

    From the way Massawyrm describes it, this sounds like it's been tailored for them. Please let me know if I'm wrong, or at least in what way I'm wrong.

  • April 19, 2011, 12:24 a.m. CST

    no credibility in this review...

    by Dustoff74

    when you taint your reviews with political views, the credibility is lost. i am going to sacrifice 90+ IQ points (according to most here) by admitting this, but i am for the most part, a conservative. There are things, i cannot support on principle, like say an idiot with a Columbia Law Degree that thinks the only cure for debt is a bigger wallet. as far as my views on film/media goes i try not to let politics interfere with my viewing. a movie is either good, bad or ugly. but what more can you expect from an industry that defended Roman Polanski so vehemently, despite a rape conviction? talk about not being fair and balanced. just do an effin review and keep the leanings out of it Wyrm-boy.

  • April 19, 2011, 1:28 a.m. CST

    CreepyThinMan....if you ever make your way to New York City....

    by Bobo_Vision

    ....visit Rick's Cabaret in Manhattan. Best strip club in New York City. 9 blocks from Times Square. You'll thank me.

  • The point is, most of the reviews I've seen spend half the space attacking the politics, then tack on the unknown actors and amateurish production as an afterthought...

  • attacking the politics of the movie. It just proves that they are NOT giving an objective review...

  • But considering that a good 90% of movie reviewers and Hollywood types in general are way to the left of the rest of the nation as a whole, and that the vast majority of the reviews I've seen for this spend the first half of their reviews attacking the politics and NOT the movie itself, I think it's safe to say that they were NEVER going to give the movie a fair shake, whether it was good or bad anyway. I think it's quite possible that it's a bad movie, but 8% on rottentomatoes? Is it REALLY that bad? Seriously? Jennifer's Body got a 42%. The point is, I don't trust the reviews of someone who has viciously attacked the politics of a movie before they even mention one word about the quality of acting, pacing, etc. Plus, I don't give points off to movies that look "amateurish" if they are on a shoestring budget, like this movie was. And halfbreedqueen, as far as Fox News creating the Tea Party, that's just plain stupidity. Rick Santelli is an anchor for CNBC. Plus, I don't see how you listened to Rush Limbaugh on a weekend, but you're obviously not smart enough to listen to him. I realize you probably get a lot of your "news" from Jon Stewart, but just understand, he's a satirist as well as commenter on current events. If you can't tell when someone tells someone else that they don't have to listen to anyone else but them is joking, you're just not that bright of a guy. What you don't understand is that you can't just listen for 20 minutes, or an hour, or even one day and get the show. It's an ongoing monologue where everything that's talked about is added to constantly and references are made to earlier comments from that day, earlier in the week, or even a year prior. He makes jokes based on jokes based on something you probably aren't aware of being covered previously. It's like inside jokes but with 20 million of his closest friends. None of his show, or even segments, are standalone. It's one of those things where your comments are irrelevent since you have no frame of reference. You just attributed all sorts of things to Limbaugh but have no idea why he said them or even if he was saying them about what you think he's talking about. I don't think you know what socialism is, I don't think you know what policies Limbaugh said of Obama's that are socialistic, and I don't think that you even necessarrily think socialism is a bad thing, if my many correspondences with the current college age set are any indication...

  • Which was absolutely the last thing in the world they wanted to do with a film like Atlas Shrugged, so instead they just devoted their allotted column space to screeching about their personal loathing for its underlying message. Coughlins, your estimate of 1/2 of each movie review being spent on attacks of the politics is quite low, actually. Having read through most of the Atlas Shrugged reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, Meta Critic, etc. I'd peg that percentage at closer to 90%. Many of the reviews spend so little or no time talking about the film itself that there is no way for the reader to be certain the reviewer even actually attended a screening of the movie.

  • April 19, 2011, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Wyrm Punts

    by Immortal_Fish

    "That’s because they’re liberals, Sean. They have hearts." Indeed. Why is it heartless to believe that all people carry with them the capacity to succeed? Why is it softhearted to believe that certain people can never succeed due to something like their gender or ethnicity? "Ultimately, its ideas are only going to connect with the already converted; it is a sermon that will only bring the choir back and do nothing to fill the church next Sunday." Aww. Aren't we due for another Iraq war movie? It's been at least a couple months since the last. There's bound to be another soon. Chin up! "If you find a copy of this sitting around anywhere, do yourself a favor: set it on fire." Yes. Burn it quick before someone can learn from it! Opposing viewpoints are eeeBUL! Wyrm, you're so disingenuous. The movie was fastracked at the 11th hour to prevent the license from reverting back. Nowhere in your review did you acknowlege this. All you could have hoped for was Wes Craven's Fantastic Four. I'd like to think Shrugged was much better by comparison. But why concern yourself with facts that could risk breaking from your prepared script? Also, Rand was a philosopher first, writer second. If you thought the characters were archtypical charicatures, then you'd be right. She wrote her characters as ideological boilerplates. Each is not a person, but a representative of a certain stripe of people. Thank you for noticing. Totally recolors your entire review, doesn't it? Supposedly, Wyrm is AICN's token Republican. That must be code for "gun owner." But perhaps I'm thinking of Jercules, who urges any doubters to check his voter registration in Austin (kinda hard to do with only his alias) and also believes the economy is strong because of his 401k performance (something no one but Jerc can verify). Do black liberal patrons of this site refer to Wyrm as, "Massa?" I always had a kinda morbid curiosity.

  • And at BoxOfficeMojo 74% of the audience rated it an "A". And at Fandango the average fan rating is, "Must Go!" And even with the always fickle fans at IMDB it rates a respectable 6.8/10. That's sure a lot of hating going on. Not. As I said above, most of the critics chose to review their personal biases of the material rather than the movie itself, which provided an awfully easy way for them to slam the film without actually examining it. Don't take my word for it, go read the reviews. To which I'll add, so are most of the posters on this thread. Halfbreedqueen, have you even seen the movie in question? Also, while we're on the subject, saying that it is impossible to separate the politics from the art, about any art not just this movie, is an utter cowardly lazy-ass copout of an excuse. It isn't hard to separate the two at all, and any mature intelligent person aught to be able to do it without a second of hesitation. What all of the critics and posters around here who spout this bs are really saying is that they don't want to separate the two because it doesn't serve their preordained purpose of bashing this film.

  • April 20, 2011, 3:19 a.m. CST

    Bioshock is a joke.

    by detinue

    A pathetic one-note joke. That game neither accurately presents Ayn Rand's views/statements/philosophical positions nor comes anywhere close to refuting them. Leave it to a bunch of dunderheaded AICN geeks to cite a computer game as authoritative.

  • As ads for the film are all over this website now.

  • June 24, 2011, 5:05 p.m. CST

    And apparently there will be a Part II.

    by detinue

    The producers have announced that Atlas Shrugged Part II will be in the theaters some time in late 2012.