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Scorsese vs. Kermit! Two Men Enter, One Frog Leaves!
Nordling here.
Readers Talkback
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Say it ain't so...
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That is what we are
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Chachi! ; )
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Feb. 20, 2011, 12:43 a.m. CST
the Swedish Chef of Innocence Vs Gangs of Dr. Bunsen Honeydew
by xevoid
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Feb. 20, 2011, 1:03 a.m. CST
I think this film will be Scorcese's equivalent to "Hook".
by little_lebowski
Just kind of the vibe I get from everything...
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Miss Piggy will sort out this Scorsese fellow. :)
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It's brilliant and weird in a way that has nothing to do with Tim Burton, thank god (nothing against the guy, but you'd think he invented quirky the way some go on about him). It got me interested in automata (look it up, wise guy) and damn, that's some cool nightmare fuel. There was this magician named Houdin (whose name Harry Houdini borrowed for his stage moniker) who built some incredible clockwork organisms. Think steampunk Frankenstein. Another mad scientist of automata was Maillardetnel one of his works was found and restored in 2007. It's a clockwork man that can draw extremely detailed ships and write poems in French and English. You just wind it up and it does its thing. Here's a link to a video of it: http://www.fi.edu/learn/sci-tech/automaton/automaton.php?cts=instrumentation Anyway, the Cabret book, if done right, could be an amazing fantasy film. I'm definitely seeing it. The Muppets? Feh. They're the kind of automata (or is that *armotata) I can easily do without. Their day is done.
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back off marty.
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...thirty-seven years ago.! Unless you count 'Cape Fear', of course.
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and a lot of problems are buried in those holes. But ya gotta do it right. Ya gotta have the hole already dug, before you show up with the package in a trunk. Or else you are talkin about a half hour, 45 minutes of diggin. And who knows who's gonna come along in that time. Before ya know it.. ya gotta dig a few more holes.. you could be there all fuckin night! Miss Piggy notwithstanding, (oh the goombahs will take care of her piggy ass), Kermit is fuckin doomed. There's a hole already dug. :) I'm really looking forward to a very different film from Marty, I'll be there opening day. B
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I don't want either to fail. Knowing me, I'll see both that weekend and other releases too. ARTHUR CHRISTMAS is scheduled to open that day as well, so that's three family films in one weekend. One of them, sadly, will suffer.
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Disney is more adept, also, than Paramount at selling films for children. Parents are also going to be nostalgic to see a new Muppets movie, as many if not most are of the age that grew up watching the Muppets. In other words, Hugo will get CRUSHED on opening weekend, but if word of mouth is strong, it'll have a decent run. If they just waited a week, they'd almost certainly have a better opening weekend.
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Feb. 20, 2011, 8:01 a.m. CST
The Muppets appeal to an older generation; Cabret to the current kid generation
by Prof. Pop-Cult
I've stated this many times before in other talkbacks -- I think the AICN viewership is increasingly skewing older (30s males, pushing 40, some already heading toward 50; some are fathers now) and this has affected what are perceived as the "cool" movies that actually appeal more to this older crowd verses the current young generation (teens and 20s) who are into rather slightly different geek genres. The AICN demo seems to be becoming increasingly fixated on nostalgia -- movies that remind them of the time when they were kids growing up during the Reagan-Spielberg movie era. The Muppets were part of that era. Do The Muppets hold much sway with kids today? To me it looks like Paramount is betting no.
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Feb. 20, 2011, 8:13 a.m. CST
I'll bet it will either be a tie, or Hugo Cabret will barely take first by a few million
by Prof. Pop-Cult
I think people may be overstating the appeal of the Muppets toward the current generation of kids. The AICN crowd (and I am probably part of this group and fall into the demographic) have been overestimating a lot of movies that seem more geared to our generation in the past few years, and overlooking the stuff that children today actually like. Most kids do not care that much for the things that their parents enjoyed as children. Did you?
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Did he and his buddy William_Faulkner join a fat farm? Is he in the hospital in a semi-private room with Harry? Inquiring minds want to know.
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I remember Casino and Toy Story both opened the day before Thanksgiving back in '95, and both did good numbers (Casino not being a family film, though). Both also had Don Rickles in supporting roles, oddly enough.
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I just had an image of Animal flying thru the air (looking obviously like someone just threw a puppet) and falling on top of Scorsese's goons from Casino and Goodfellas. He pretty much just chomps their baseball bats like carrots.
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Feb. 20, 2011, 11:24 a.m. CST
If by win you mean boxoffice, this won't even be close.
by Shepard Wong
Most American parents won't take their kids to a movie with a title they won't know how to pronounce. A film set in Paris based on a book inspired by early 20th century French cinema. That's gonna be huge in The Heartland.
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Prof Pop-Cult, that is. Too many guys on this site are older and pathologically nostalgic towards stuff they grew up with, that their kids and kids' kids have zero interest in. I personally know no parents whose kids have the slightest interest in a new Muppets movie, and yes I have asked, out of curiosity. My nephews think the Muppets are for babies. Of course, I have no idea if the same kids have any interest in the Hugo Cabret movie either. However, those kids are HUGELY interested in Happy Feet and the new Chipmunks movie that's gonna premiere like a couple of weeks before Muppets, so it's going to be a very crowded field for holiday movies. Could be wrong but I think the Muppets are going to underperform. We'll see.
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Nordling at least has the right idea by saying "family movie". The problem that some of the commenters are having here is that they keep referring to the Muppet movie as a kids' movie when it's not. Segel emphasized this in interviews. It's in the spirit of the original Jim films, which is a family film that appeals to a wider age range. I agree with you, Prof Pop-Cult, that the nostalgia factor is a big thing here on AICN and I do believe that it sometimes colors our view of a project's potential. But that same nostalgia, as has been pointed out, is what's going to get parents excited to see a Muppet movie. It's the fault of Disney and their idiotic approach to the Muppets that makes today's kids think that the Muppets are for babies. Of course they'd think that when the last few Muppet projects have been wrongheaded, tame adaptations of fairy tales and nursery rhymes (despite the presence of Quentin Tarantino). More young people today may have read Hugo Cabret and that will certainly count for something, but EVERYONE has heard of the Muppets, even if they have sadly not been exposed to the classics.
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Both parents and children will be confused by "Hugo Cabret".
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That's the rub. Today's kids have seen the Muppets on Sesame Street, and they don't make distinctions between Sesame Street Muppets and the Muppet Show Muppets. They're all Muppets to the kids, and to them Muppets are baby stuff. And it's not that hard to see why they think that way. True, Muppets are amazing for what they are, but computer-generated creatures like the dragons in How To Train Your Dragon outclass them. That's progress for you. And speaking of progress, I bet if Jim Henson were alive today, he'd dump puppets altogether and use CG, or enhance his characters with it. Unless he was a nostalgic old fogey like some people are here, which doesn't seem in character for him. Although it appears to be in character for Jason Segal, who's weirdly obsessed with puppets IMO. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see if an old-school, UN-ENHANCED product like the Muppets can find a sizable new audience. I sincerely doubt it. But anything can happen.
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Remember when Universal thought it was a good idea to open SCOTT PILGRIM VS THE WORLD against THE EXPENDABLES? Opening HUGO CABRET against the Muppets reminds me a lot of that episode of studio foolishness.
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....or do the kids take the parents? thats the question. and what i mean by that is, will parents go see the hugo movie because the kids wanna see it, or will the parents make the kids sit through the muppet movie beause the parents are "nolstagic"?
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Feb. 20, 2011, 6:28 p.m. CST
The things about Scott Pilgrim... it really seemed to appeal to the older geek demographic more
by Prof. Pop-Cult
I still cannot totally put my finger on as to why this is, but SP really seemed to have more of a positive affect on the older, Gen-X and Gen-Y geeks than younger. Maybe it's because it feels like to me the kind of movie that would have been made in the early 80's had the level of CG FX we have today -- along with the pop culture of Nintendo, Playstation, and anime -- existed then. (Yeah, I acknowledge this may be a stretch to imagine.) Think about movies like The Goonies, Gremlins, Explorers, The Last Starfighter... SP kind of reminded me of those movies but exploiting the technology and geek pop culture of today. And The Expendables... well, that was of course 80's action movie nostalgia all the way. Nuff said.
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If Ms. Piggy has a wardrobe malfunction, the Muppets could win based on the titee
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Most parents take the kids to the movies they want to watch. And as somebody else pointed out, kids today seem to regard the Muppets as merely puppets and the same ones they saw on Sesame Street. They may not be able to tell the difference between the "worlds" that Elmo and Fozzie occupy. They just see puppets. As for Hugo, it's a popular kids book that was published during their young lifetimes. It features a kid having an adventure (kids seem to dig watching actual kids on screen adventuring). Although I myself am not familiar with the book, the movie seems like it could remind the mainstream family audience of the Night At The Museum flicks, which this audience simply ate up and enjoyed immensely.
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Feb. 20, 2011, 7:21 p.m. CST
This is a movie for adults, by adults - why else did they give the gig
by Tommy Fang
to Jason Segal? He has name recognition but no credibility when it comes to performing with and writing muppets.
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for the rotten jokes in this post
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so good. first time i saw it was in high school. best psychology class and teacher ever. rock on Mr. Bishop
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...take the kids to what they WANT to see. real parents take their kids to what they NEED to see. <P> hopefully the muppets win the day imo.
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Do they need to see a toothy stoner puppet lust after women, or something? A pig get insulted for her ethnicity, at which she reacts with violence? Monsters eat little bunnies? A wild-eyed terrorist blow things up? I can see why some people are amused by those things, but why would kids *need* to see all that, instead of a good (hopefully) adaptation of a brilliant book?
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Its Thanksgiving weekend. People go to the movie that will please everybody from the kid, to grandma, and thats the Muppets this year, especially in middle America.
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Feb. 21, 2011, 1:36 a.m. CST
2 family films being released before Thanksgiving on the same day? THE SHOCK!!!
by dasheight
Seriously, who cares? Jason Segal's "Muppets" sounds like it's going to be a hell of a lot of fun, and Scorsese's "Cabret" might be brilliant (I'm especially fascinated to see what Scorsese does with 3D, especially since it's with a film that allows him to explore his more Italian magical realist side, and it's always great when he gets into that). Gonna see both - as I'm sure most of America will do. Yeah, so one will "win" the first weekend, while the other won't - it will probably be the Muppets getting more cash the first weekend just out of name recognition alone. Is this really worth a debate or discussion? Really? THE SHOCK!!!!
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That's right, you were the one on here before talking endless shit about the new Muppet movie. Aren't you supposedly a teacher or something? Anyway, if your theory is that kids today think of Muppets as Sesame Street characters and thus somehow "beneath" them, then I guess it's conceivable that they won't think that way when they see that these AREN'T the same puppets, right? Or is your supposition that these same kids will recognize Henson's particular style and make the connection between this movie and that children's show AND then automatically consider this new movie also "beneath" them? That's a lot of supposition. Versus what we know to be true, which is that movie studios, particularly Disney, put a lot of money into market research that tells them whether a movie is a good idea or not. Disney isn't known for taking huge risks, so there must be SOME viable data telling them that a new cross-generational Muppet movie is a good idea. And if you actually knew a damn thing about Henson, you'd know that he DID try CG and wasn't against it, nor are most people who treasure the man's work. What he would want, and what most of us want, is CG that actually looks real when interacting in a real environment and storytellers who use CG as a tool and not a fucking crutch. Which is 98% of the idiot hacks who use it.
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Damn, do you like have a shrine to Jim Henson in your secret closet or something? Grow the fuck up, join the 21st century, something. And give kids some credit. They've seen Kermit on Sesame Street, so he's part of that, as far as they're concerned, and so he's baby stuff, at least to the kids I've talked to about it. Puppets are baby stuff to them. I guess that's progress, dude. And screw the market research stuff. Have you actually read the story about how this Muppet movie got greenlit? Press releases were all over the place. Disney had no initial interest in it. Zip zero nada, until Jason Segel got wet over the idea during a discussion with Disney about a different project altogether. And then Disney dragged their feet over it for months. Finally, according to Segel, Disney was like "let's just do it, it's not going to cost that much", etc. This film is Segel's baby, and Disney is hoping like heck it makes some dough because it's stuck with a bunch of characters Michael Eisner bought at a discount during his crazy last days at Disney, during which he almost alienated Pixar for good. Genius! And hey, I complimented your holy god when I said he'd probably would totally have gotten into CG had he lived long enough. He actually had this CG character, I think I remember, in this crappy show he did, or maybe it's that show at Disney world, the character was something that flew around. Anyway, what I said was that he might have dumped puppets altogether in favor of CG. Like most people have done, especially special-effects houses. And good thing too. I got stuck watching Cats and Dogs once, and I believe the Henson people did some of the effects, and god damn they were lame. The puppet dogs and cats looked like the real thing but they moved stiffly and unconvincingly. Looked cheap as hell. Anyway, I would like to think that Jim would have seen the potential of CG, but who knows. And ultimately, who cares? Enjoy your Muppet movie dude.
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Why would anyone need to hide their love of Jim Henson? The only one who seems to find it shameful is you. Everyone else on the f'ing planet really seems to be okay with admitting their love for his work and his influence on their lives. If you asked any CG artist living today if he or she was influenced by Jim Henson, I guarantee you 99% of them will answer a resounding "Yes!" You talk about Pixar almost being alienated, but I'll bet most of those Pixar people were *thrilled* when Disney got the Muppet rights. Because? That's right, because most people love the Muppets. Why you have such a bizarre, arch hatred of them (and don't bullshit me, this continued auto-response shitty attitude you have to any and every AICN post about this movie is 100% hate) is beyond me. Incidentally, how is it a compliment to state a fact? Yes, Henson DID get into CGI. Um... is that a compliment?
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