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The Behind the Scenes Pic of the Day is a Jedi, like its father before it.

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with today’s Behind the Scenes Pic!

Okay, so Jedi gets a bad rap. Screw that noise. Here’s why I say that… yeah, the Ewoks are cute teddy bears instead of pissed off Wookies… sure, Han Solo is a shadow of his TESB self… but the triangle of Luke, Vader and The Emperor is some of the best stuff in any of the Star Wars films.

The Emperor in this film is a calm threat, not the cackling wicked witch of the west that he was made out to be in Revenge of the Sith. The fact that Palpatine was so incredibly sure of himself, so unthreatened by Luke, made him terrifying. Plus his make-up was a million times better.

The emotional climax of the Vader/Luke dynamic is perfect to me and if for no other reason than that success I will always defend Return of the Jedi.

Today’s pic comes from the Jabba’s Palace sequence as the original, pre-Special Edition CGI Sy Snootles is set up to sing for the big slug. Notice the great Phil Tippett off to the left there not looking all that happy. Enjoy!

 

 

You don’t want tomorrow’s behind the scenes pic to cross your path!

-Quint
quint@aintitcool.com
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Readers Talkback
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  • Jan. 28, 2011, 12:40 p.m. CST

    why do you think he's unhappy?

    by golden tribw

    Sy looked pretty good!

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 12:41 p.m. CST

    Alien boob lady is a jedi?

    by Bobo_Vision

    Who knew?

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 12:43 p.m. CST

    Jedi will always be better than any Prequel

    by MattHooper

    My entire generation complained about that film for years (and many still do,) until .... Star Wars: Episode I: The Phantom Menace ... jesus .... just ... jeeeZUS, man.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 12:44 p.m. CST

    Where have that guy's legs gone?

    by UGG

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 12:45 p.m. CST

    He's unhappy because....

    by supa_dupa_oompa_loompa

    He just got a message from his future self telling him, "Sorry dude, all your hard work will be erased from existence and replaced with a CGI pile of shit." "Well people will still be able to find the original to check out, right?" "Nope. Not on Blu-Ray." "What's 'Blue-Ray?" "Forget it."

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 12:46 p.m. CST

    It looks like they were amputated at the sack-line.

    by TheUltimateMathTeacher

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 12:48 p.m. CST

    I would hit Sy Snoodles like the fist of an angry god

    by One-Eyed Willy

    Just sayin . . . I'm open that way

  • I wish more puppets and animatronics were used today.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 12:54 p.m. CST

    I remember seeing ROTJ with a friend when it

    by Ingeld

    first came out and feeling disappointed. The whole movie felt like a retread of the first movie--except they were just going to add more of what worked. Instead of the brief Cantina scene with wacky aliens playing music--we have Jabba's throneroom. Instead of a single bad guy--we have two bad guys, etc. After leaving, my friend said to me, "Why the hell did they decide to turn Star Wars into a goddamn muppet movie."

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 12:54 p.m. CST

    Oh please, the Snootles puppet is horrible

    by darthvedder81

    The mouth doesn't articulate and the puppet had like 3 moves. Plus, you literally can see the strings controlling it. But "Lapti Nek" is the better musical number. I'd like to see the updated CGI characters done with the original music.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 12:55 p.m. CST

    Star Bores: The Return of the Boring

    by Yaroh_Meringue

    From the Same As Usual Dept. Writer: Dick DeBartolo Artist: Angelo Torres

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Del Torro

    by Dealer

    This is why I think they should have went with someone like Del Torro for any of the following SW movies. This scene was awesome before they started adding in the CGI characters. I love the Family Guy version when they add a sock puppet to this scene. Perfect. I would also agree with the article above, the Luke Vader Emperor stuff was handled perfectly.

  • From the moment we see the new 'band' the movie is ruined. the bobba fet flirting part is awful and the sand monster now has tentacles and a stupid ass looking piranha plant style beak straight out of Mario. Someone needs to teach george lucas a lesson.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:09 p.m. CST

    People who gripe about the Ewoks are kind of asses

    by awepittance

    you were either too old to enjoy ROTJ when it came out or you are a retcon person who needs to 'save face' and jump on the ROTJ hate wagon. the movie is fantastic. There is so much other good stuff happening in Jedi

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:10 p.m. CST

    jedi holds a special place in my heart

    by Billy_D_Williams

    it's not only the first star wars movie i saw, it's the second movie i saw in a theater (E.T. being the first)...so, i don't look down on jedi as much as i probably should. the jabba's palace stuff is pretty terrible until Luke shows up...after that it's great until the ewoks show up...then the final 30 minutes is some of the best stuff in the trilogy...certainly the best space battle (which has yet to be topped by any movie IMO, the combination of visual FX, editing, sound and music is incredible), and the throne room stuff is amazing.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:12 p.m. CST

    The climactic space battle at the end of Jedi..

    by AnakinsDiapers

    ..has never been surpassed in tension filled spectacle for these past 20 plus years.<p> Lucas seems to have forgotten with the prequels that without the human element, it's all just eye candy and 'splosions. The opening space battle in revenge of the Sith was soulless. Can anyone name one pilot in the end battle of the Phantom Menace? Yet we can go all day quoting lines from Red Squadron from Star Wars.<p> Besides Lucas' failure, no other space battle put to film has stood up to Jedi.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Jedi brilliantly resolves Luke/Vader/Palpatine plot

    by David Ortiz

    I agree with Quint 100%. The way Lucas handled the father/son element was fantastic. It was visually striking, beautifully scripted, and emotionally satisfying. So many of today's movies are a complete letdown after a huge buildup (looking at you Matrix, Pirates, Spider-Man, just to name a few). Yet, Jedi nailed it. Yes, the Ewoks were a stretch mostly, but the other elements are so good that they far outweigh whatever shenanigans took place on Endor.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:14 p.m. CST

    Update does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    I get the feeling that RETURN OF THE JEDI is the one Star Wars OT that could be most improved with some careful tinkering, and perhaps the Blu Ray releases might provide some more deleted material to do so with. I personally think JEDI's a cool movie but I believe a highly skilled fan editor like Adywan might be able to make it a great movie.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:14 p.m. CST

    I could buy seven foot Wookies defeating Imperial ground forces

    by Yaroh_Meringue

    not three foot tall waddling fursuiters

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Sy Snoodles? I thought that was a George Lucas puppet.

    by AzulTool

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Also, people didn't start REALLY hating the Ewoks until

    by Yaroh_Meringue

    those godawful made for TV movies came out.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:16 p.m. CST

    Childs

    by Dealer

    Could not have put it better myself. I do love these old shots, great insite into the movies. Keep them coming! I would also like to see what a behind the scene shot of one of the new SW movies would look like, I'm guessing it would be an actor or two in front of a weatherman screen.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:16 p.m. CST

    If we are hating on ROTJ

    by Ingeld

    I never did like the human face of Darth Vader at the end. He looked like an egg head--humpty dumpty who had been through a war. The sunken eyes were good, but he looked chubby faced. Gaunt--thinned faced would have been better. While I am critiquing ROTJ, it is still light years better than the prequels.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:19 p.m. CST

    anakinsdiapers

    by Billy_D_Williams

    i've been saying that for years...the end space battle is incredible and yet to be topped by any film...not even close. the opening ROTS space battle was terrible...a CGI cacophony blob with nothing interesting going on. the end space battle in jedi has that hand crafted feeling, it's the culmination of ILM's amazing work pre-CGI. nothing has topped it, CGI or otherwise.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Haven't like 90% of these pics of the day been Star Wars related?

    by rev_skarekroe

    How about something from a completely unexpected film? Like a behind the scenes pic from Annie Hall or Glen Or Glenda or something?

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:22 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    What i'd like to see for the 'ultimate' cut of ROTJ...<p> -snip the newly added 'song and dance' routine with the CGI characters. (not only do they look like shit, that whole build-up to the Sarlaac Pit is already a wee bit overlong and these extra 2 mins aren't welcome).<p> -reinstate the deleted opening scene of Vader communicating to Luke, and Luke tooling his newly made green lightsaber. (JEDI is Luke and Vader's movie - they should be the focus from the start). <p> -General Nadine piloting one of the Capital ships in the final battle. I've seen some stills of this and would be interested to see the sequence - more space battle is always welcome.<p> -The death of Lando and destruction of the Milennium Falcon. The scene where Han says goodbye to Lando and then he walks into 'shadow', followed by Han gazing at the Falcon and saying "I've got a funny feeling i'll never see her again." sets it up. Was this ever shot? Seems funny that they would shoot the build-up material but not the actual ship's destruction.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:22 p.m. CST

    "Jedi Rocks"

    by la_sith

    I don't mind most of the changes made by Lucas in the OT because, aside from Greedo shooting Han first, they make sense. Wait...scratch that. Except for the deletion of this scene and the insertion of the painfully awful "Jedi Rocks", the most atrocious change made by Lucas. It's worse than the Han/Greedo scene because that one is at least over quickly, kind of like a doctor shoving his thumb up your ass. "Jedi Rocks" is a prolonged dick-fondling by your bald, hairy uncle. I always kind of dug the Sy Snootles Band's original song. Instead, we now have CG Yuzzum and Sy Snootles obnoxious lips coming right at us. I'll never understand it. To quote C-3PO, "Ohhh, I can't bear to watch." It makes me so queasy that I skip watching it. Unless I'm drunk.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:22 p.m. CST

    Jedi is underrated

    by Mantula

    Jedi is great! - I love to quote the Emperor's lines from that movie. PLUS... the whole Jabba's palace/Sarlak pit section of the movie is awesome! (However, I do think 'Lapti Nek' is a better song than the crappy one in the special edition.) -- In fact, the making of special for this movie, "From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga," is what really started my interest in behind the scenes of movies. I would kill to get that special on DVD. I wonder if there's any chance it'll be included in the BluRay set?

  • That's why I've only seen the movie just that once when it was first released in theaters way back when.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:23 p.m. CST

    ROTJ

    by Dealer

    The SE of this scene is embarrassing! I am guessing there will not be a non SE version on the bluray. Anyone heard anything about that?

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Answer me this.

    by eric haislar

    Why did yoda and Obi disappear and become one with the force when they died. But Vader did not, Yet we see him at the end? HUH HUH HUH? it's never ever bothered me but i was wondering if anyone had a answer except. that Luke only burned his fathers suit. which i think is BS.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:28 p.m. CST

    no no we need more george lucas bashing

    by ORIONgods

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:33 p.m. CST

    What I wouldn't have given to be up Sy Snootles' underparts.

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    Had SUCH a big crush on her...

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:34 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    dealer, the Original versions of STAR WARS are not going to be on the blu ray - only the Special Editions...<p> However, they are going to include 'previously unseen deleted scenes' - so it begs the question...<p> IS THE ORIGINAL SY SNOOTLES SONG NOW A DELETED SCENE?<p> (because if they do include HD versions of this scene then it'll be simple for fan editors to switch it back into the movie).

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:35 p.m. CST

    People who whine about Jedi and Ewoks

    by Yamato

    fall into the same trap as many before have done. How can these little primitives defeat the mighty empire. How can these little Vietnamese defeat the might of a superpower. How can a mere halfling carryout the greatest quest in Middle Earth (yes, I know I am mixing history and fiction), how can a band of horse riding nomads with out any kind of cities orinfrastructure conquer almost all of Asia. Underestimating the enemy is the first step toward defeat. That in mind, the only thing I would have added in RTOJ is something extra being shown about the Ewoks. Show that they are really strong for their size (make them as strong as a human) or that they have claws (the strength idea is more in fitting with Lucus, though Ewoks being able to pop 3 inch claws would have been cool.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:37 p.m. CST

    erichaislar

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    Simple. 1. Luke was imagining his father showing up with the ghostly duo. Wishful thinking, son. 2. Like Neeson-Jedi, he turned into a second-tier apparition after some serious Force-consideration debating whether he deserved the ghost-treatment or not. 3. An extension of #1. Namely, all Jedi are hallucinating, paranoid schizophrenics who are trained to brainwash each other. Not only was Anakin not a jedi-ghost--neither was Yoda or Ben.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:39 p.m. CST

    Sny Snoodles VS Mon Mothma

    by UltraTron

    BEGIN! "Many Bothans died to bring us this.." "na wonk a chonko taki, eno che ta ta nota.." WINNER Sny Snoodles

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:40 p.m. CST

    the_choppah

    by eric haislar

    I prefer option 4 Lucas has no idea either. It Just makes the ending better.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:41 p.m. CST

    erichaislar

    by Dealer

    If you go to the darkside then decide to switch teams right before you die you will be put on the no-fly list, at least until you clear the light side screening. That could account for his late departure.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:44 p.m. CST

    I find Vader's redemption at the end

    by Ingeld

    conflicts with any belief in absolute justice. Here the destroyer of planets--and billions of lives--goes straight to Jedi Heaven because he was sorry at the end? No purgatory of some kind, not reparations for sins in some kind of reincarnation as an untouchable? His expression of remorse should have been the beginning of his long redemption--not the end.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:44 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    erichaislar, following in the_choppah's Yeti-sized footsteps I'll give you my 3 points.<p> 1. Vader breathes his last breath in the Death Star hangar, and yet we doesnt disappear like Yoda and Obi Wan did. So yep he's in his suit when he gets burned.<p> 2. Barbecued Sith Lord would have been quite a delicacy for the Ewoks. What do you think they did with all the captured Stormtroopers - it was feasting time in Ewok Village that night! Dude with xylophone ate four himself.<p> 3. I think Luke sees the 'ghosts' in his mind. I don't think anyone else can see them... so yeah... guess he could imagine Vader looking normal (like the old guy actor). I don't really see how he could imagine him looking like Hayden Christensen as he does in the Special Edition but that's just more botched Lucas tinkering for you.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:44 p.m. CST

    yamato, I don't have a problem with the Ewoks defeating the Empire

    by MattmanReturns

    I do have a problem with them looking like little teddy bears.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:46 p.m. CST

    "the bobba fet flirting part is awful"

    by MattmanReturns

    What? That part's great. He flirts in a badass Boba Fett kind of way. "All you get a chin nudge, and you'll like it." I agree the dance scene was nauseating.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:47 p.m. CST

    Anakin ghost... an attempt to tie the films together.

    by impossibledreamers

    That's it. That's all. The six movies are effectively about Anakin's rise and fall and redemption - so it makes sense that the ghost is the young Anakin before his stumble. Its not logical, its VERY contrived but storywise - it fits. Still hate Hayden's performance let alone the little creepy kid from Episode 1. Thanks George for ruining our imaginations on how cool the Clone Wars were supposed to be by actually trying to show them.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:47 p.m. CST

    REVISIONIST HISTORY: ROTJ WAS FUCKING AWESOME WHEN IT CAME OUT

    by Darth Busey

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:48 p.m. CST

    THE REMOVAL OF YUB-YUB AND LANDO CLAPPING IN TIME TO MUSIC

    by Darth Busey

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:49 p.m. CST

    WAS THE WORST REVISION LUCA$ MADE

    by Darth Busey

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:50 p.m. CST

    The only way I woulda bought the Ewoks...

    by HarryKnowlesNonExistentInceptionReview

    ...defeating the Empire was if they could suddenly split their faces open, ejecting a second, prehensile, poison-fanged mouth complete with molecular acid-shooting tongue and if, whenever they were hit by blaster fire, they'd explode into multiple balls of fur that rapidly grew into yet more horrible, spit-faced, poisonous, acid-shooting Ewoks.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Cobra-Kai

    by Dealer

    Thanks I had a bad feeling about that. I know if you want the extra discs you will need to buy the entire saga. I can't bring myself to do that. I'm still debating on buying the original three.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:52 p.m. CST

    As a child born in 81 and discovering star Wars during it's VHS heyday

    by RedBull_Werewolf

    I always loved Jedi the most, I never even thought empire was anything special untill i was in my teens, ROJ has so much going on it's only fault is that it's not a new hope or empire... and thats kinda unfair to the film I think Return of the jedi was the perfect film to cap off the OT, It has a sense of darkness and forboding, but the overall tone is a happy and lighthearted one that ends the saga with a smile Shortly after I saw revenge of the sith, I claimed that it was better then jedi, but 5 years later I regret that, Jedi is a better film then sith Now when Is JW rinzler's making of Jedi book going to be released?

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:52 p.m. CST

    Anakin's ghost should have been the kid from Episode I

    by MattmanReturns

    And he should have been running circles around Obi and Yoda, going, "WOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAHHHH!!" Iris out. Directed by George Lucas.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:56 p.m. CST

    The opening of Jedi...

    by TheBoManKicksAssAndTakesBlame

    stands against any other Star Wars moments. The whole opening scene in Jabba's lair right up to the battle on the land ships over Sarlacc's pit. It's great when Luke arrives and makes his way to Jabba overflowing with Jedi confidence only to get dropped into the Rancor's lair. So great. the only bad thing was Ford's acting when he first gets unfrozen and all his interactions with Chewie. Terrible acting.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:57 p.m. CST

    mattmanreturns...

    by HarryKnowlesNonExistentInceptionReview

    ...Good idea! (Yes, it's sarcasm) And he should be shouting "Yippee!" (Sarcasm again)

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 1:59 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    THE REMOVAL OF LANDO HAND CLAPPING TO THE FUNKY MUSIC?!!<p> I... I can't even remember Lando hand clapping.. all these moments lost in time... damn you Lucas.. DAMN YOOOOUUUU!!

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:01 p.m. CST

    Opening of Jedi is very pulpy

    by MattmanReturns

    I like it. Quite different from the others. Feels like a little movie. I *think* that's what they were trying to do with Episode III also... but it ended with "Another happy landing!" and then I shot myself in the face.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:02 p.m. CST

    the whole point of using ewoks instead of wookies....

    by fat_rancor_keeper

    the whole point of using ewoks instead of wookies was that GL was trying to get across the notion of a primitive enemy taking down an enemy who was technologically advanced in every way. He couldn't use wookies for the battle and get that same point across b/c he'd already established Chewbacca (hence all wookies) as being tech savvy and advanced.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:04 p.m. CST

    also -

    by fat_rancor_keeper

    I totally agree with the poster who mentioned how the vader/luke palpatine dynamic made up for any of the movies shortcomings. Everything about that whole dramatic showdown was fucking awesome. Those are arguably the finest moments in the whole 6 part saga.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:06 p.m. CST

    Who the fuck is BOBBA FETT

    by la_sith

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:06 p.m. CST

    this this this this wow this this this this wow

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    it doesnt need to be articulate.. i remember like it was yesterday watching FROM STAR WARS TO JEDI. Would be nice to see on the BLUs but i highly doubt it since the effects they were pimping in the vintage docs have long since been erased.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:11 p.m. CST

    fat_rancor_keeper

    by eric haislar

    I thought it was because making a 100 Ewok suits was cheaper then making a 100 Wookie suits. Plus Ewoks makes for a new toy they can sell to kids. Buy Cuddly Ewok teddy bear for your young child.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:13 p.m. CST

    "Vader/Luke dynamic is perfect"

    by Billyeveryteen

    I submit that it wasn't handled well. For two and a half movies we're told about being at peace and using the Force for defense. Yet when Vader is clearly winning a fight with his son, Luke uses the Dark side(rage, anger)to beat him. Yes, dramatically, thats pretty cool. It still means that the Light side (see Qui-Gonn, Yoda) can't win. I find that pretty depressing.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Empire is the better movie...

    by shatners hairpiece

    ...but I'll still choose Jedi every time. I loved Jabba and the Sarlaac, Admiral Fishy (aka Ackbar), the cycle chase, the dual battles on Endor and at the Death Star and everything Quint mentioned about the father-son dynamic and the TERRIFYING emporer - plus, it has my all time favorite John Williams score (tied with Temple of Doom). And let's just all agree that the prequels suck ass and let it go. They are to the original trilogy what "The Sting 2" was to "The Sting". A steaming pile of failure versus something truly great.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Return

    by kufirst

    Biggest and best roller coaster of a movie ever. Like you mentioned, there are devices and instances in the film that make you cringe but everyone loved this film as a kid and it's only when you look back that you realize it was a bit awful at times. The other times, though, can contend with any moments in Empire (the final space battle and lightsaber battle). So it's obvious Lucas can do a climax if he feels like it, but the other parts in the Star Wars are literally meaningless. It's unlikely Lucas will ever make up for all the trifle he created in the sequels, but we can and will always cherish the first trilogy.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:16 p.m. CST

    "Is the dark side stronger?" "NO."

    by MattmanReturns

    Yoda's a fucking liar.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:16 p.m. CST

    "Vader/Luke dynamic is perfect"

    by Billyeveryteen

    I submit that it wasn't handled well. For two and a half movies we're told about being at peace and using the Force for defense. Yet when Vader is clearly winning in a fight with his son, Luke uses the Dark side(rage, hate)to beat him. Yes, dramatically, thats pretty cool. It still means that the Light side(see Qui-Gonn, Yoda) can't win. I find that pretty depressing.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:18 p.m. CST

    "I like the little furry things."

    by MattmanReturns

    "The Ewoks. They blow." -Best line from Scream 2

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:19 p.m. CST

    "Jedi" should have altered the script...

    by Philaspenser

    ... to acknowledge that it was actually Vader who was the "other". After all, it wasn't Leia who saved everything, it was Vader.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:20 p.m. CST

    billyeveryteen

    by eric haislar

    Did you miss the whole point of that part of the film? The dark side is stronger and gives you great power. He was playing right into the emperors trap. Just like we at the time assumed his father did. He realized that he was becoming his father in that very moment took a step back and looked at the situation. And choose to turn away from the power and except his fate whatever it was to be even if it means the emperor killing him.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:22 p.m. CST

    ROTJ hate is almost all revisionist

    by Arteska

    I was 12 when ROTJ came out and I don't think I encountered any griping or teddy bear bashing until the early 90's when former Ewok underoo wearers started getting laid and became *pinky in the air now* cineastes after they saw Reservoir Dogs or something. It's all so tiring. People laughed at and loved that stuff when it came out.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:24 p.m. CST

    "It still means that the Light side(see Qui-Gonn, Yoda) can't win."

    by fat_rancor_keeper

    "Yet when Vader is clearly winning in a fight with his son, Luke uses the Dark side(rage, hate)to beat him. Yes, dramatically, thats pretty cool. It still means that the Light side(see Qui-Gonn, Yoda) can't win." I disagree. Luke's rage only got the best of him for a brief moment, but it was through the light side of the force that he really "won". Luke had enough power to NOT kill his dad and tell the Emperor to go fuck himself. That's the power of the light side and in doing so things worked out anyway....Vader followed his son's path and destroyed Palpatine. Compassion saved the day.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:26 p.m. CST

    arteska, um

    by MattmanReturns

    I remember seeing Jedi with my parents a couple of years after it came out and my dad was shaking his head at the ewoks. My mom mentioned she could see their zippers and called them "cheesy."

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:28 p.m. CST

    fat_rancor_keeper

    by eric haislar

    Agreed. Even if Luke had been killed right there after the turned away from the dark side. The emporer lost in that very moment he was powerless and knew it.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:29 p.m. CST

    That's my point Eirch...

    by Billyeveryteen

    The light side can't win. There is no fight in all of Star Wars where patience and restraint is rewarded. Every fights ends up with who is pissed the most.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:29 p.m. CST

    Fuck, fat_rancor_keeper is right. I'm slipping.

    by MattmanReturns

    Vader is the only person who could kill the emperor. That is the point of the whole saga. He brings balance in the end by killing Palpatine... and Luke's rage almost destroyed everything.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:30 p.m. CST

    billyeveryteen

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    Yes, I think we've pretty much learned from eps IV - VI that--technically--the Dark Side whips the Light(?) Side's ASS every fucking time. You've got to do some fancy shit to break that rule: 1. Obi Wan vs Darth Vader in Ep 4: Dark Side 1 Light Side 0 2. Luke vs Darth Vader in Ep 5: Dark Side 2 Light Side 0 3. Luke vs Darth Vader in Ep 6: Dark Side 3 Light Side 0 And, of course, Luke gets fried by the Emperor and only "wins" due to Vader's help, and I'm sure he wasn't thinking "good thoughts" about the old bastard who only started murdering his son through electro-torture just after he was encouraging Luke to kill Vader! All things being equal--for fighting purposes--the Dark Side wins every time. I only have Lucas to thank for this bleak, twisted outlook on life. Thanks, ya neck pouched SOB. Still not with me? Go to "5 Scientific Reasons The Dark Side Will Always Win": http://tinyurl.com/4u9s3eo

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:31 p.m. CST

    erichaislar

    by fat_rancor_keeper

    exactly....the most he could do at that point was get even and shock Luke to death, which backfired pretty badly for him.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:35 p.m. CST

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    Luke uses the Force to guide his torpedo into the exhaust port, destroying the Death Star. Luke doesn't give into the dark side with his confrontation with Vader in ESB. Leia uses her unknown force skills to find Luke, thereby saving the "last of the jedi" Luke doesn't give in to the Emperor. Vader finds some good in him (light side) to defeat the Emperor. Yeah, I'd say the light side worked out pretty well in these 3 films.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:35 p.m. CST

    Jub jub, eeoohh ee nochaah..

    by UltraTron

    Dolowong donai kay, ewachoo donaaii kaayy.. Ohh no-wah no-wah, JUB JUB! Ohh no-wah no-wah, JUB JUB! Hola, Eeo ee nocha.. That's John Williams he revised there. First he makes him do stupid teddy bear music to begin with. He knocks it out of the park all things considered. Then he shits on the only good part of the ewoks. I can't forgive Han not shooting first. Maybe if he had somehow created some new scene that was better. But man. His head literally slides out of the way of the laser beam. I hope he fixes all this shit on the new blu-rays. Include the originals with seamless branching and he can even leave all that crazy shit he put in there that doesn't hold up to ps3 game quality and we won't mind. Oh and Avatar is better than any star wars movie you've ever made Lucas. He blows you away Lucas. He farts in your general direction. Aliens blows away any star wars movie you have ever made. You are insane if you think you were making war movies for kids. Then you include mass child slaughter. You are sick and lost Lucas. You can't direct action from your couch. Don't you fucking dare direct anymore star wars or even try to write it. Let some new blood handle it. Now go stick some heads from various alien characters on bodies that don't match their anatomy and remember to grab your shine box on the way out

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:37 p.m. CST

    choppah & erich..

    by Quackfu

    Are you forgetting the Death Star? Luke took it out when he "let go..." That was definitely a win for the light. Yeah it took out a planet but hey even an ultimate force can't be perfect.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:38 p.m. CST

    However

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    In a one on one saber battle, the guy using the Dark Side definitely has the edge. And the Dark Side lightning doesn't hurt either.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:39 p.m. CST

    Choppah...

    by Quackfu

    disregard previous post

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:40 p.m. CST

    quackfu...disregarded

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    my young chopling.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:41 p.m. CST

    the_choppah

    by eric haislar

    Luke totally gave into the dark side in empire. This is why he has no hand. Who went to bespin looking for a fight? Luke. Who drew there weapon first? Luke. Who arrogantly thought he could defeat vader with his little training? Luke. Who was not prepared emotionally for the fight like yoda told him to be? Luke.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:41 p.m. CST

    braindrain

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    maybe they had been working double shifts or something. Who knows? Working on Star Wars films can't always be shits and grins. Probably mostly shits.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:41 p.m. CST

    Vader's redemption brings "balance" to the Force

    by la_sith

    Hate saying this as so many people loathe the prequels (I find them to be a mixed bag), but they allow for the series to tie together neatly. Qui-Gon's premonition in TPM was that Anakin was "The Chosen One" who would bring balance to the Force. It took him going to the dark side, killing endless people, destroying planets, etc. But he turns away from the Sith, kills Palpatine/Sidious and thus balance is restored through Anakin/Vader's redemption. Hate away, but that's Lucas's story.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:42 p.m. CST

    erichaislar.....I hear ya!

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    I haven't seen that many question marks since the Riddler's wife was having octuplets!

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:43 p.m. CST

    the_choppah

    by eric haislar

    HAHAHA I am so glad you are back on these boards.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:45 p.m. CST

    And of course, just to refute myself...

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    Using the Force to guide his targeting hand at the end of Episode 4 could've been accomplished by Light or Dark Side. Luke's just been told that Vader is [SPOILER] his daddy. He basically commits suicide. I doubt the Light Side of the Force told him to do that. Light Side or Dark Side, the guy you thought killed your father IS your father. And he just beat the shit out of you and cut your hand off. And it's "not succumbing to the Dark Side" to attempt suicide after this psychotic daddy offers you a place by his side? I'll take the Dark Side, thanks. I argue that Luke WAS using the Dark Side when he defeated Vader in Jedi (giving into wrath) and--once he "overcame" the Dark Side--had his ASS handed to him by the Emperor. And I have my doubts that Vader was using the "don't give into hate" Side of the Force when he manhandled the old fart and through him to his death. My guess is that between the Emperor egging Luke on to murder him and the Emperor frying his son to death, Vader might've had a little built up rage towards ye old bastard. But that's just me. I could change my mind at any second.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:46 p.m. CST

    I love you too, erichaislar

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    It's my turn to be "pitcher" tonight, m'kay?

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Makes me laugh

    by Quackfu

    Clearly Lucas didn't put all the pieces together forty years ago. Or just never paid attention to himself. How do you redeem a child killer? Killing an entire planet is almost easier because Aldaran was faceless. But the jedi tykes? Man that is just wrong. Was he just "following orders?" Didn't wash in Nuremburg. Doubt it would with the High Council.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:48 p.m. CST

    Fuck, I don't know what to think about the

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    dark and light sides. It's all so confusing. Prequels are more straightforward: They just suck. Those were false dawns to the nth degree.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:49 p.m. CST

    braindrain

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    Have you ever taken a shit in a freezer? Me neither.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:50 p.m. CST

    vader/luke perfect

    by rhizomeman

    The vader/luke conflict was perfectly handled. Ewoks blew, second death star was totally fucking lazy and repetative but hey, WAY better than any of the PT.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:50 p.m. CST

    Shit, never mind.

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    I forgot that summer in Toledo, '75. I was still coming down from my 'nam PTSD...

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:51 p.m. CST

    Anakin progression to dark side in Prequels is

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    too rushed. 1) They should have started Episode One with Anakin being 25-30. Obi -Wan and Anakin are already best friends. Anakin is actually affable in this one. 2) His brush with dark side power in Episode Two, and him feeling the pull of it. Maybe have him go full dark side at the end with a cliff hanger 3) Having Anakin totally infected by the dark side, go on a killing Rampage of jedi. Obi Wan finds him and their epic confrontation ensues.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:52 p.m. CST

    Palpatine to Anakin: "Jesus, you killed the kids too??"

    by MattmanReturns

    "I didn't even tell you to do that... but... okay... cool I guess. Saves me some trouble later. Good lookin out."

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:52 p.m. CST

    Sorry FRK, Luke's dip into the Dark side may be brief...

    by Billyeveryteen

    But he still kicked his Dad's ass with it. He wasn't all "Now let's calm down and out-think him..". It was shame that reeled him back in, and to agree to suicide.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Push the prequel government shite to the background

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    Only a few times the main chars become involved in the "clone wars" And the Clone Wars actually use real clones on both sides. None of this masked clone shit vs. robots.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Regarding Emperor´s make up in ROTS

    by Ditko

    Seriously, why does it look like complete, cheap shit? I mean, was it so hard to try and recreate the look? The Emperor looks like he´s wearing a bad Halloween mask in Episode 3. It pisses me off and pulls me right out of the movie.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:53 p.m. CST

    "he still kicked his Dad's ass with it"

    by MattmanReturns

    Yeah he almost KILLED his dad, which would have prevented his dad from killing the ultimate evil: Palpatine. Hence, the dark side would have won.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:55 p.m. CST

    Most excellent.

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    I see the seeds of dissent I've sown these past few months in Egypt have begun to take root and flower. Most, most excellent indeed.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Tunisia was just the pre-game, my pretties.

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    The appetizer. Egypt is the pasta course. Just you wait and see what I have in store for the main course. I'll laugh and laugh. CHOPPED.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:58 p.m. CST

    ditko...I have a theory about that...

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    I wonder if they changed Palpatine's make up because they were using so much green screen? Maybe old makeup techniques look worse in front of green screen. I don't know. I didn't work in Hollywood for very long. They fired my ass for being too Republican. WTF?

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Re: Those god awful TV movies

    by vicryixiv

    I dont know why people shit on those either. Caravan of Courage has kind of a weird plot i guess, but it was a pretty high quality production for tv in the mid 80's and is a good kids movie. And Battle for Endor? Fuck all you haters! The ewok village getting razed to the ground and all of Cindel's family dying? The cool moment where the dad sends her off into the forest to try and survive? Bad fucking ass! Teek isnt any more annoying than Jar Jar and Wilford Brimley is the bomb. Plus the battle at the end is pretty pimp too. Fuck all you haters

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3 p.m. CST

    Dessert, of course, will be our siege of Skywalker Ranch.

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    The day awaits, CHOPlings. We will have vengeance! And the untainted prints of the Original Trilogy.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3 p.m. CST

    Oh, and about the Ewoks...

    by Ditko

    ...being a kid and watching Jedi for the first time, I didn´t mind them. I mean, I felt no love for them, but they seemed alright. I liked the scene when 3PO tells the story to them, thought it was fun. I love Jedi, the final act was marvelous. Showing Vader´s face, being that of a tired old man was genious. You couldn´t help but feel sorry for the guy. Jedi pisses on the prequels anytime.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Little Known Fact:

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    "The Dark Side" is a veiled reference to the Black Power movement of the 60s - 70s. Hell, whattaya think Vader's choke-Force was symbolically about: http://tinyurl.com/4zdn72d I LOVED it in ESB when Vader stuck it to white man after white man after white man. Anakin my ass. That was all J.E. JONES! FREEDOM NOW, MOTHERFUCKERS!

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:03 p.m. CST

    ROTJ had 1 - ONE - cool new thing

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    The speeder bikes - that's it. Everything else was a retread or Ewoks. It's an INCREDIBLE let down from the first two - Star Wars which was about as original and imaginative as they come, and ESB which somehow added to and deepened the SW experience without ruining it. Speaking of ruining, they took one of the best most iconic villains ever and made him into some boring, wimpy old man. Unreal. Not to mention the godawful performances by Ford and Fisher.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:08 p.m. CST

    However, ROTJ had the Emperor/Luke/Vader Climax...

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    And THAT was gold. Still as awesome as ever.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Battle for Endor

    by eric haislar

    Is nto a bad tv movie. I enjoyed it as a kid.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:11 p.m. CST

    And let's hear it for motherfucking Mark Hamill

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    He truly went from Zero to Hero. Whilst the Princess was stumbling around in a vacant, coked out hangover daze and Ford was rolling his eyes, mumbling through disgusted lips, Hamill was knocking the FUCKING SOCKS off that film. Never has a vehicular, marring accident done more for an actor's gravitas. Hamill was and IS the MAN (no offense to the Dark Side).

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:13 p.m. CST

    I still have the making of ROTJ VHS somewhere

    by Chief Joseph

    In it, George decides that Sy Snoodles should lead the band. The FX guys are concerned because the puppet's mouth isn't articulated. George reassures them that it's OK, all the puppet's mouth needs to do is open and close. Fast forward to 1997, George Lucas is bitching about how Sy Snoodle's mouth wasn't articulated, so they had to replace her with CGI.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Mark Hamill is the man

    by eric haislar

    Lets talk about the The Guyver ! I have not seen it it years but thought it was bad ass when i was young.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:16 p.m. CST

    adding to the star wars discussion.....

    by Sprinky

    ROTJ isn't my favorite either however if i have to choose between this movie or any installment from the Prequels i'll choose ROTJ. yeah, it couldn't compete with the previous movies especially Empire, yeah it had ewoks i didn't care for but at it least was straightforward, at least i understood what i saw and it made sense (most of the time). I have sit through all the Prequels with my only comment over and over again....WTF is this shit? So yeah ROTJ all the way. But of course there are other cool movies out there that are NOT Star wars.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:18 p.m. CST

    Guyver Remake is Needed

    by eric haislar

    Not Lethal Weapon.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:20 p.m. CST

    Man i'm sick of Star Wars....yaaawwnnnn!!!

    by smitme

    It's 2011 folks lets move on. We need a new sci fi craze

  • It's the movie Lucas simply got sick of making SW and used to crash any and every idea he had left into some contrived finale. He couldn't do the Wookie fight he always wanted so he rearranged and shortend the word "Wookie" into "Ewok", made them short instead of tall and tried to pull of the same ideal of nature overcoming technology with mini cuddly-cute teddy bears instead of giant apes! If that works for you then you're more simple minded than the average 8 year old! There's so much ridiculous inconsistencies and contrived bollocks in ROTJ simply becasue lucas got lazy and wanted to end everything with a finale merchandising cash-cow. Lando who is a civilian, becomes a General overnight and leads the entire fleet ahead of mean who have fought the Empire all their lives and lived through many major battles like Wedge! That's as stupid as Jar Jar becoming a General becasue he gave directions to a Gungan sacred place! Luke has no lightsaber training, barely sat through a few weeks of training on Dagobah, yet is proclaimed a full Jedi three months after returning to continue his jedi simply becasue Yoda is dying? Worse still he beats Vader by simply swinging his lightsaber like mad with no skill proving all those years and decades of Jedi training means squat if your opponent is angry enough to not give a shit! What the Frak is a Mon Motha and where was she in the last two movies, last two major battles against Vader and the Empire and more importantly where the frak was she when everyone else was celebrating around the galaxy? Pointless invention of a character unless you were simply thinking action figure sales.. which Lucas was! The entire opening scenes on Tattooine in ROTJ are the biggest Muppet show production of all time and looked shite! The sail Barge fight had a lightsaber that didn't cut anything except a gun shaf! Intergalactic bounty hunter Boba Fett turns into a basic henchman hanging around for kicks and dies like a loony-toon character by accident... RIDICULOUS! The fight with the Rancor has Luke throwing things just to get a door to shut when real Jedi's can move objects with their mind! Great writing, I supposed somewhere between that scene and arriving on Dagobah to see a sick Yoda, he completed his exams off-screen to get a passing grade to being called "Jedi". Why is there a hole the length of three extended tunnels from the surface to the Death Star power core big enough to fit tons of ships through? ...DUMB! Red cloaked imperial special elite guards of the Emperor... where were they during and after the guy they were supposed to be guarding got thrown down the abyss? God I can pick contrived plot-holes through ROTJ all day, basically after SW and TESB this film was a joke, the previous movies only invoked the child in you to adhere to the fantasy and adventure. ROTJ required you to be as dumb as child in order to overlook its insanely bad production geared purely towards selling merchandise!

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:21 p.m. CST

    Jedi is not a very good film

    by ObiBen

    but at least it's a somewhat cohesive film, something that can't be said about any of the prequels.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:23 p.m. CST

    the discussion is sort of all over the place, lol

    by fat_rancor_keeper

    are we talking about light side vs dark in general, light side vs dark in just one battle (luke/Vader/Palps) or light side vs dark every battle? Those are all vastly different, though related topics.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:25 p.m. CST

    ceejaynightwing

    by eric haislar

    Holy shit! have you been holding that in for a long time?

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Star Wars ranking

    by MattmanReturns

    A New Hope/Empire Strikes Back (Tied) Return of the Jedi Revenge of the Sith The Phantom Menace Attack of the Clones I go back and forth on the last two... but Liam Neeson and Darth Maul elevate Menace.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:27 p.m. CST

    BRAINDRAIN - 100% CORRECT. "CLONE WARS" SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABOUT

    by Darth Busey

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:28 p.m. CST

    THE BATTLE TO OBTAIN/PROTECT THE TECH OF CLONING A JEDI OR SOMETHING

    by Darth Busey

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:28 p.m. CST

    NOT DESCRIBING THE PEOPLE WHO FOUGHT A FUCKING WAR OVER TRADE ROUTES

    by Darth Busey

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:29 p.m. CST

    ANAKIN COULD HAVE BEEN THE JEDI CLONED

    by Darth Busey

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:30 p.m. CST

    "DARTH VADER" WAS THE TWISTED RESULT OF THAT CLONING GONE BAD

    by Darth Busey

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:32 p.m. CST

    DARTH VADER KILLED THE ORIGINAL ANAKIN. FITS THE STORY.

    by Darth Busey

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:33 p.m. CST

    RE: Ewoks

    by slone13

    The simple minded seem to forget that those "cute" Ewoks were going to devour the roasted human (and Wookie) flesh of our heroes for dinner until Luke busted out some Jedi shit and made them think 3P0 was gonna destroy them. Cute and cuddly my ass.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:34 p.m. CST

    chief joseph re: sy snoodles then and now

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    that is why Lucas sucks now and the prequels suck as well.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:34 p.m. CST

    ROTJ at it's worst PISSES on any of the PT...

    by Pawprint

    But it's obviously the weakest of the OT. Funny thing is, that it's the weakest because it's the one which contains elements of what ruined the PT (mainly TPM): Burp/Fart Jokes (Jabba's Palace Scene). Convoluted plot which makes little sense. Repeat ending. 'Cute', primitive race overcoming technologically superior enemies. Stupid character names, and overly outlandish aliens. Bland, useless characters (we let this go in the main because of the good will generated by SW and ESB - they're like old friends). Everything that was wrong with ROTJ ended up being a terrible omen and portent of things to come for the 1997 SE versions of the OT, and the PT.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Cool picture. As much as everyone wants to rag on Jedi...

    by GWARHOL

    The days of filmmaking depicted in this image are extinct. Heartbreaking, in my humble opinion.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:35 p.m. CST

    NIEN NUNB MAKES UP FOR ALL THE BAD SHIT IN ROTJ. HE FUCKING RULES.

    by Darth Busey

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:37 p.m. CST

    breaking down what ceejaynightwing said

    by Phategod100

    ROTJ sucked because geek, nerd geek, geek, nerd, geek, geek. and your a moron if you disagree.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:38 p.m. CST

    ditko

    by elsewhere

    I always assumed the Emperor's face in Jedi got that way from years and years of being influenced by the darkside. It pisses me off that they tried to explain it away in Revenge of the Shit with some force lighting because for whatever fucking reason, Lucas felt he need to connect everything in the prequels to the original trilogy. Unimaginative and lazy writing in my opinion.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:38 p.m. CST

    ceejaynightwing

    by slone13

    You do realize that anyone who uses the phrase "looked shite" instantly renders their opinion completely and entirely inconsequential, right?

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Oh, and another thing wrong with Jedi...

    by Pawprint

    ...that was amplified x 100 in the PT (esp TPM) - Lucas having creative decisions HUGELY controlled by merchandising considerations.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:38 p.m. CST

    wow - Mad hate for ROTJ

    by magnetoelectric

    Some of the dumbest shit Ive ever read on here ceejay , let me tell ya. You honestly got angered and frustrated in the scene in which Mon Mothma lays out the death star plans? Why? Why is that even something that enters your mind? Remember the old dude who broke down the attack plans for the rebel fleet in New Hope? What was his name? He pisses you off too doesn't he.. "Who is this fuckin old guy?!" I could drone on and on and nit pick your nit picks, but its just easier to tell you you're fucking stupid

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:40 p.m. CST

    re: elsewhere

    by darthwaz1

    In the novel ROTS it gives waay more story, and it says that's palp's true form. His public face was just a disguise created by the force. The lightning made him lose the ability to conceal himself anymore.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Lapti Nek music video

    by deelzbub

    used to play almost every week on Friday Night Videos. An extended version of the song with extra scenes. My dad loved that shit. We had a copy on VHS forever. Wish I still had that tape. The ROTJ fan edit should include that video as well.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Good Point About the ROTJ Space Battle...

    by Pawprint

    ...raised earlier though. I remember watching it (I was about 10 or 11) and combined with the apparent hopelessness of Luke's situation on the Death Star, the tension was incredible. I truly remember not knowing whether Lando & the Falcon would make it (esp because of the "Not a scratch now.." dialogue) - or any of the characters. It genuinely seemed like we could lose any of them at any time during the climax. On first viewing as a young lad it seemed like Luke was being fried by the Emperor FOREVER - I was nearly chewing my own fingers off. Unlike the PT where I struggle to stay awake for ANYTHING other than Darth Maul.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Jedi has the greatest space battle of all time.

    by pushthebuttonmax

    OF ALL TIME! I mean really, that space battle still looks better and is way more exciting than anything churned out today.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:47 p.m. CST

    darthwaz

    by elsewhere

    Hm. Ok I didn't know that. I still like my idea better. :-)

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:49 p.m. CST

    are you a troll braindrain

    by elsewhere

    or just incredibly stupid? Every post from you makes me cringe.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:49 p.m. CST

    ROTS Novel Explanation for Sidious' Face...

    by Pawprint

    ...is even fucking worse than what it appears to be in the film. Being slowly corrupted and twisted over 20-odd years is so much more interesting than "Yeah, I shot myself in the face with lightning.", or "Yeah, I shot myself in the face with lightning and for some reason the power I had to disguise my face is gone. Or something."

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:51 p.m. CST

    exactly pawprint

    by elsewhere

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:54 p.m. CST

    HaHaHaHaHa... Fuck off Braindrain...

    by Pawprint

    Nobody wants to buy what you're trying to sell. Yoda spends the entire PT completely ignoring what's right under his nose and dispensing advice which turns out being completely fucking wrong before getting his arse kicked and deciding to exile himself instead of staying and helping the Rebellion. The Jedi Temple was a PS3 cut-scene background. Obi-Wan was bland as fuck, even when he attempted to rehash/mirror the humourous banter from the PT it fell flat as a fart.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:55 p.m. CST

    pawprint

    by eric haislar

    Agreed. I always assumed before the PT it was because he was old as fuck and force was just keeping him alive longer.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:55 p.m. CST

    elsewhere

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    Brain Drain is indeed a troll. A tier 4 troll but still a troll. He's not dissimilar to Jabba's little rat buddy in psychic stature... But he's no yes man like the aforementioned rat-toady-thing. In fact, he'll pretty much always dissent with any popular viewpoint just to be an ass. But he's mostly harmless.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:57 p.m. CST

    pawprint

    by 0007

    If Darth Maul is the only thing you enjoyed in the prequels, then you'd best get onto watching The Clone Wars now that the character is back in action, along with his kin.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:58 p.m. CST

    Braindrain...

    by Pawprint

    Yeah... I haven't stopped talking about Ewoks since I posted in this thread have I? In fact let me just see where the first time I mentioned was... Oh it was just now, here. because you mentioned them. Now shut up - big boys are talking.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 3:59 p.m. CST

    0007

    by Pawprint

    Thanks for the heads up. I may investigate.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4 p.m. CST

    I present everything wrong with Lucus

    by eric haislar

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-cQpZkIuv_8/TRpNtEBq4fI/AAAAAAAAALw/Z8Csi011YYU/s1600/rs400n401cast-of-return-of-the-jedi-rolling-stone-no-400-401-july-1983-posters.jpg

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Quint

    by Judge Dredds Dirty Undies

    pretty much sums up perfectly how I feel about Jedi. The vader, luke and emperor stuff makes it a better film for me than a new hope.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Braindrain, it's true

    by MattmanReturns

    When you have people complaining about Boba touching a girl's fucking chin, you know it's gone too far. If Boba had done that in the original release, everyone here would be praising him as a ladies man and how cool that is, etc.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:02 p.m. CST

    "So be it. Jedi."

    by Tacom

    My favorite Star Wars line.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:04 p.m. CST

    Ceejaynightwing must be at least forty I'm guessing

    by Tacom

    You can always tell the old guys by their hate of Jedi.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:04 p.m. CST

    @ceejaynightwing

    by Chief Joseph

    You're wrong on at least two points: 1) "Guards, leave us!" Is that so hard to understand? Also, IIRC, Vader may have forcechoked the guards to death in a deleted scene. 2) There was never a Mon Mothma action figure in the '80s. So no, she was not introduced for merchandising reasons.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:05 p.m. CST

    My Star Wars Post Mortem...

    by Pawprint

    During ROTJ I noticed SW seemed to have a bit of a cough... In 1997 SW attempted cosmetic surgery, but ended up looking worse. TPM appeared and with the appearance of Jar-Jar in the main, I realised that SW was terminally ill. Any hope for a cure disappeared with AOTC, but I can pinpoint the moment SW died - C3-PO in the droid factory/head swap. RIP SW. To make matters worse, George Lucas decided to piss on the corpse - you can almost hear the splashing and smell the urine on the dead body during the scene with Artoo and the 2 super Battle Droids slapstick scene.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:09 p.m. CST

    @Chief Joseph

    by Pawprint

    Yeah, about the Mon Mothma figure - really odd that when you consider they made a General Madine figure (so fucking useless he came without a weapon, but a briefing pointer) and he has about the same lines/screen time as Mothma.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:09 p.m. CST

    pawprint

    by THE_CHOPPAH

    But the Prequels were for the children, man. The CHILDREN! [/sarcasm]

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:15 p.m. CST

    star wars haterz

    by fat_rancor_keeper

    gonna hate

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Not really, pawprint

    by Chief Joseph

    It's been a long standing belief (perhaps even a fact) in the toy industry that female characters don't sell in a boy's toy line. So it's not really that unusual, especially for that time. They did make a few Leia figures though, I guess they figured she was badass enough.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:17 p.m. CST

    the_choppa

    by Pawprint

    LOLZ! Short of pinning my 5 year old son down and sitting on his chest in front of the TV (I'm going somewhere with this -don't call the cops) I cannot get him to watch the PT or the Clone Wars cartoons. They bore the shit out of him.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:23 p.m. CST

    @Chief Joseph

    by Pawprint

    Yeah, I suppose so. I suppose they HAD to include Leia, obviously, but apart from her and Mothma (and some very minor background characters) there are very few women in the OT. I suppose you could level the merchandising accusation at the Madine figure which (as I mentioned) was fucking useless, unless you factored a lot of pre-adventure briefings into your playtime as a kid. However, I instantly think of the Ewoks when I think of ROTJ and obvious cash-grab.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:24 p.m. CST

    i just hope it doesnt f up continuity

    by fat_rancor_keeper

    we shall see

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:24 p.m. CST

    The Ewoks DIDN'T defeat the empire, guys.

    by bubcus

    The Ewoks provided a distraction so that the Rebels could get free, break into the base, blow it up, and then blow up the death star. Sure, those little Teddy Bears took out some stormtroopers, a few walkers, and a few speeder bikes, but that was it. They were merely a distraction.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:26 p.m. CST

    UK Sound stages

    by Mr Lucas

    are not cold, even in winter (those big lights put out quite a bit of heat). They are, however, baking hot in summer. As for looking bored, yes making films is a long and boring process. The hours are long and most of it involves fat guys in shorts moving lights around.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:28 p.m. CST

    bubcus... you forgot to *SLURP* at the end of that explanation

    by MattmanReturns

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Jedi relied heavily on the quality of the first two films

    by SmokingRobot

    But was acceptable (barely) despite the Ewoks. The father-son stuff was good enough to justify this. But the prequels? Pure unadulterated crap. George Lucas at his purest.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:29 p.m. CST

    braindrain

    by eric haislar

    Yeah because that makes sense with what happened in 3 when Obi wan was so shocked to find out that Yoda had been talking to Qui Gon.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:31 p.m. CST

    @bubcus

    by Pawprint

    This is true, but they were still punching FAR to FAR above their weight for it to be believable. We had - what - 10, at the most, Rebel Commandos? Han, Leia and Chewie and some Ewoks against what the Emperor describes as "...an entire LEEEEGION of my best troops!" I understand the whole overconfidence, arrogance and reliance on technology trope, but these were a pack of 4 feet tall primitve teddy-bears and 13 humans - not thousands of 7 ft tall kill-hungry parasitic insect-like aliens with acid for blood. They should have got their arses kicked if we're being honest.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:33 p.m. CST

    "Chewbacca defeated the Empire. Him and his 2 little buddies in the AT-ST."

    by fat_rancor_keeper

    and again - he was fucked out of a Medal

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:35 p.m. CST

    WHO'S THE JEDI? THE PUPPETEER?

    by Missing Dink

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Here, here!! (agreed 100%)

    by Darth Macchio

    Indeed! I've felt that way for a long time! Ewoks basically suck, Chewie and the tarzan yodel < ass, etc. But yet the opening Jabba's palace scene (prior to the new edition bullshit) and then basically every aspect of the Emperor, Vader, Skywalker drama at the end was totally kick ass. When Vader outs Leia and Luke basically looses it and attacks him violently, as the music swells, as he beats Vader back and back getting more and more angry and finally beating him to the ground, cutting off his hand, and almost killing him as the emperor laughs and applauds. Pure sweetness! Watching Prowse behind the mask as the Emperor shocks Luke again and again, seeing his indecision as the Emperor is killing his child, Prowse, emoting plainly and amazingly from behind a mask!, and his final resolution and final moments...ahh, that to me is the real "Return of the Jedi" not the cutesy furry guys or even their semi-guerilla war against the imperial encampment. Hidden in the kid's fart part of that movie is a great father/son drama that simply made the movie. And if you can't even get past that, there's always Leia in the slave-girl outfit...

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Phil Tippet just heard...

    by justmyluck

    ...the design of Nien Nunb got approved. http://tinyurl.com/6x8vyoa Or maybe he's realizing that there's an actual full-on vocal music number happening, not unlike THE MUPPET SHOW. I remember when the soundtrack vinyl arrived (in 1983, weeks before the movie) and I purchased it as soon as I saw it - only to discover the LAPTI NEK and the NUB NUB Ewok songs on there. I knew something was up for ROTJ, and not in a good way. For an idea of total lack of insight, a 12" vinyl of LAPTI NEK - expanded into club and dub mixes - was actually issued to disc jockeys. It's hard to believe GL even made it worse by adding more music and CGI to the Max Reebo Band for the special edition - commemorated in 1997 with new CD singles of JEDI ROCKS and CANTINA BAND! Couldn't Sy Snootles and company simply have been background material, as a touch of color in Jabba's Palace? No, that would have taken restraint.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:50 p.m. CST

    I guess the Carbonite really mellowed Han out

    by MST3KPIMP

    I guess after that he was just happy to be alive and just didnt have the piss & vinegar.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:53 p.m. CST

    "an entire legion of my best troops"........

    by Righteous Brother

    are taken out by some teddy bears with spears and stones.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Reality does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    The Ewoks really knew 'how to kick back and whittle"<p> There expertly laid log traps were the clincher. Ok I know the Endor stuff is silly...<p> Still how much more fun is it watching midgets in teddy bear suits bashing up genuine stormtroopers in an honest-to-goodness forest, than watching CGI 'roger roger' droids shooting at CGI clone troopers in a non-existent desert?<p> Surely reality is just so much more heartwarming?

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 5:07 p.m. CST

    Han a shadow of his former self...

    by OptimusBob

    ...I always thought Ford played it that way intentionally due to the fact that Han was still recovering from Hibernation Sickness...

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 5:18 p.m. CST

    Wanna see something REALLY cool concerning the emperor?...

    by Cervantes

    ...interesting behind the scenes photo there, although it's a sad reminder that not only did George fluff his prequels, but he treated his originals badly too. The 'Jedi Rocks' replacement scene blew big-time, compared to the original version, and will still blow when the Blu-Rays come out, but in higher definition! Anyway, agreed that the emperor seen in 'Jedi' was far better than how he looked in 'Sith'. Well turns out Adywan has just released his version of 'Empire's emperor scene now. And he sticks to the original lines, unlike George's long-winded new addition. Original version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKtciRCVpFE George's addition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPqQOt2Znm0 Adywan's version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eStsTNOaED8 And agreed that the space battle seen in 'Jedi' is still better than anything seen in the prequels. And the fact that Adywan intends it enhance it into something even bigger just makes me look forward to his 'Jedi:Revisited' edit even more. Screw the 'special edition' Blu-Rays.

  • ...still there's even hope for the prequels once Adywan chops them up in future.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 5:57 p.m. CST

    Are you kidding?

    by Steven Trebus

    I can see where some people dislike the prequels, but one of the best features of the prequels is more of Palpatine. McDiarmid was brilliant in Revenge of the Sith. The guy had been keeping his identity secret for years and finally saw his plan come to a head. If that were me, I'd go apeshit happy too.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 6:03 p.m. CST

    I gotta say

    by Steven Trebus

    I enjoy the newer version much better. Palpatine's appearance is much more Sith-like in the prequels, and his make-up just looks better overall. And this is from someone who grew up watching the originals WITHOUT the changes, which inspired me to major in film.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 6:04 p.m. CST

    Lucas has a right to retcon his own stuff

    by MattmanReturns

    These other assholes are just silly fanboys with too much time on their hands.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 6:07 p.m. CST

    So many Star Wars Pics. So much bitching.

    by lochkray

    Same old, same old. Sigh. People bitch, and people defend. So tiresome. And yet, here I go again: Return of the Jedi was a fucking awsome movie. Saw it when I was 10, loved it then, love it now. And for all the pathetic whining from the I-hate-everything-except-Empire-Strikes-back group, ALL of the episodes of Star Wars will still be watched and loved for at least another generation, and probably two or three. Longevity in fantasy matched only by King Kong, the Wizard of Oz, and the Rankin-Bass produced Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer Christmas special. So, bitch, blabber, and whine about how awful Star Wars is, and how talentless George Lucas is, 'cause kids will still be laughing at Jar Jar Binks and going "awww" over Ewoks, when you're pissing in your depends, watching the squirrels stealing seeds from the old-folks-home bird feeder, wondering why your kids don't call anymore. Deal with it.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 6:08 p.m. CST

    ROTS owns ROTJ is almost every way

    by sith_rising

    Jedi space battle is still the best in the Saga though

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Unfortunately...

    by SchwarzenGollum

    ...Lucas will never let us see these puppets in live-action form ever again on any new transfer of the film. We are stuck with the shitty, CG-version with the crappy new song. Smells like poo.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 6:13 p.m. CST

    We needed more Ewoks

    by Chief Joseph

    Hear me out. I think part of the disbelief of the audience is that we never see that many Ewoks at once. They tried shooting the same 10-20 midgets from different angles to try to make their numbers look bigger, but it wasn't convincing. 1 or 2 Ewoks tapping a Stormtrooper's shin armor is not a threat. Imagine Stormtroopers being SWARMED with hundreds of Ewoks, badly outnumbering them. I think this might be possible for Adywan to do. Maybe add some spears and arrows sticking out inbetween the Stormtroopers' armor, like in their joints.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 6:16 p.m. CST

    Lapti Nek music video!

    by deelzbub

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iZFZRCCLIU man, I just watched it three times, cant get it out of my head!

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 6:18 p.m. CST

    Never understood the hate for Jedi

    by Amazing Maurice

    Yeah, the Ewoks were a pretty retarded idea. But there's so much more to love than hate in this movie. The mini-adventure with Jabba at the beginning is just brilliant. And the space battle at the end? Holy shit it STILL looks utterly amazing today. Its astonishing when you think about how incredibly hyper-kenetic and exciting the battle is and the fact it was done with fucking goddamn MODELS! Think about that whole space battle - about how much shit is actually going on on-screen and realise that you never feel overwhelmed by the visuals, confused about what you're supposed to focusing on or feel disengaged from what you're seeing. That space battle blows the past 10 years of headache-inducing CGI actions scenes right out of the water. 1983.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 6:43 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    "ROTS owns ROTJ is almost every way"<p> Right, cos that scene of Anakin and Padme talking in Coruscant was awesome..<p> And that scene of Sam Jackson and cartoon Yoda talking in Coruscant was awesome..<p> And that scene of Hayden and Palpatine talking in Coruscant was awesome..<p> But it wasn't just talking... what about that bit where R2 spurts black oil all over the baddie robot and makes it slip over... awesome.<p> And that cartoon villain General Grievous was EXTRA awesome cos he was like actually... a cartoon.. but he was in a movie with real people.. like Roger Rabbit... but you couldnt tell he was a cartoon... unless you have eyes... awesome.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 7:07 p.m. CST

    Ewoks.

    by J43

    Whats hard to understand here? It's their native planet, they know the terrain. They're brown and furry and fit into the surroundings, as opposed to the storm troopers in bright white uniforms. There's god knows how many of them running around in that forest. They were viscous enough to want to slow cook Han Solo on a rotisserie and eat him for dinner. Yes, they were made to sell toys. Yes, Wookies would have been cooler. But come on, it's not unbelievable that they could win with the help of the rebels.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 7:21 p.m. CST

    mattmanreturns, sure George has a right to retcon his own stuff...

    by Cervantes

    ...my point was that some of his particular retconning 'creative decisions' are considered to be ill-considered shit by some of us, including myself. I defend the right of others to feel different about this issue though, even if I beg to differ.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 7:30 p.m. CST

    I'd argue that Han Solo was the worst part of ROTJ

    by planetran_fan

    Ford phoned in his performance, and his lack of enthusiasm showed all throughout the scenes after leaving Tatooine. Nothing wrong with the Ewoks. The meek shall inherit the earth...that's all that was. Nature vs. technology. It's okay. Agreed, the Luke, Vader Emperor triangle smokes virtually anything on the screen since.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 7:33 p.m. CST

    Ewoks

    by dukeroberts

    I love Return of the Jedi and have no problem whatsoever with the Ewoks. I even liked their cartoon.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 7:34 p.m. CST

    deelzbub

    by la_sith

    Thanks for posting that! Fuckin RAWKS!!!

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 7:37 p.m. CST

    Yes those vicious intimidating Ewoks

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Come on, are you fuckers SERIOUS? They are fat, little teddy bears! There is NOTHING THREATENING about Ewoks. I don't care if "dey wuz gonna eat Han Solo!!!" ... Watch the movie again - I don't think Han Solo cared either.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 7:58 p.m. CST

    Ewoks - the real reason they are hated

    by Dapper Swindler

    The real reason I believe most people hate Ewoks is not because they didn't make sense of the plot or even because of their cute and cuddly design. Although people will point out these things, I think the real reason is something deeper, perhaps unconscious. The real reason is due to a backlash from feeling like tried to manipulate them. They were clearly used to sell merchandise. Rather than being a thematically relevant addition to the story, people see them as a commercial inserted into the movie. A clear manipulative attempt to sell merchandise. People don't like feeling like someone is trying to manipulate them. They lash back angrily. But I ask you this - if there were no toys, no stuffed animals, no Ewok underoos. If they were never commercialized and treated like an integral plot point of the film - would you still hate them as much? Many would probably still hate them some. But I think it's that underlying sense that they are there to manipulate us into buying crap that fuels most of that hatred. Take out the buying crap part and I would argue they aren't so bad.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 8:02 p.m. CST

    Pawprint postmortem

    by ObiBen

    Brilliant.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 8:06 p.m. CST

    Do we care about Anakin getting redeemed in Jedi?

    by darthwaz1

    If u watch all 6 films, he's a fucking child murderer! I get the whole virgin birth/prophecy/child of the force thing, and the clone wars cartoon makes Anakin more likable. However as far as us caring about him, once he killed those little Jedi kids I really started to not give a fuck about him anymore. When he gets redeemed in Jedi now it's like "umm ok he killed palpatine, restored the force, but still killed a bunch of children."

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 8:22 p.m. CST

    Palpatine in ROTJ looked like he had a vagina...

    by blackmantis

    ...stuck on his forehead. Horrible make-up...Jedi is imperfect but successful as a story and film, not something I can say about any of the anal leakage that was the prequels.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 8:55 p.m. CST

    Ewoks defeated the Empire's ground forces

    by alienindisguise

    A fact that will live on forever. If stormtroopers could shoot worth a shit it wouldn't have gone down like that but it did.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 9:18 p.m. CST

    someday...

    by justmyluck

    ...when at-home, do-it-yourself CGI and movie production has evolved even further, SW fans will collectively rebuild ROTJ into something much, much cooler. I can see it in these posts already. That, and a proper prequel JOURNAL OF THE WHILLS, to annihilates GL's cash-in. "Nothing gonna stop us now."

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 9:23 p.m. CST

    Why didn't Han Solo have to pee?

    by Nasty In The Pasty

    Considering he was stuck in frozen Carbonite for three years, shouldn't the VERY FIRST THING he did upon being freed would be to make the mother of all morning pees?

  • 1: The Empire Strikes Back: (The scene where the wampa gets its arm sliced off and its the shot of the wampa holding the wound screaming wavering back and forth). I wanted to punch George in the face after that. 2: The Return of the Jedi: (The New Sy Snootles band song in Jabba's palace) WHAT THE HELL!!! The old song was wayyyyyyy cooler. and finally and in a similar vein as #2... 3. The Return of the Jedi: (The new end Ewok celebration song mixed in with Hayden's ugly mug) PISS OFFF and gimme a break... When fricken (Sir Alec) Obi Won died in A New Hope as an old man, he didn't fricken reappear in spiritual form in Empire looking like Ewen McGregor. WHAT THE HELL. Vader died as an old fart. oh and the new end song sucked ass.

  • the real problem is the defeat of the Empire alone.From a pure logical perspective i find it very hard to accept that an entire galactic Empire was destroyed because of losing ONE battle. yes that battle was a big and very important one and by the end of it the Emperor was killed and the DS2,their ultimate weapon,was destroyed as well.BUT we are talking here about events and situations in the galactic scale. When you control a whole galaxy, that means that in order to achieve this kind of gigantic achievement,the amount and the quality of the army,technology,logistics,organization,human stuff and operational expertise,generally all the assets and resources which you posses as an Empire must be insane. in other words a galactic Empire is too big a thing to be defeated and destroyed like that in a single battle no matter how serious that battle was.It's pretty safe to assume that after this battle,there would be still a large part of the Imperial army intact around the galaxy still patrolling and controlling the various planets.There would still be many skilled,next in the chain of command,officers ambitious enough to try and take over the control of the remaining Imperial Forces.and there would still be very powerful players,outside the Empire, who would want to keep things as they are in order to protect their personal interest,ergo they would help the Empire to overcome their esoteric turmoils following their defeat, if it was needed. So no the Ewoks didnt defeat the Empire.The Empire was not destroyed because of losing one battle and because their supreme leader was killed.This battle can be viewed only as the beginning for the ultimate demise of the Empire,the first hard blow against the Empire's undisputed dominance. And that's why i find it a missed opportunity that Lucas didnt make a sequel trilogy,but instead gave us the PT abomination.The characters were there,the layer for how the story would continue was established,Luke was a complete Jedi and the war finally started to turn in favor of the Rebellion.Lucas could simply continue the story from the end of ROTJ,there was so much stuff to explore but i guess you cant sell your new movies and merchandise without your most popular property/bait,so you follow the prequel route and focus solely to it and turn it the center of the whole goddamn universe. nice job there fat man Luca$.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 10:19 p.m. CST

    anyone ever notice the red snake hanging and slithering

    by HadWoodenTeethChasedMobyDick

    during the sarlac sentencing. thankyou widescreen tv. but no thankyou for revealing the very end of where the wampa arm turns into a stick when it slashes Luke's face in ESB.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 10:21 p.m. CST

    killik

    by lochkray

    Read "Heir to the Empire by Timothy Zahn". It was published in the early 1990's. It has everything that you're looking for.

  • not the EU in its comic form.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 10:44 p.m. CST

    I can't believe that people think ROTJ hate is revisionist...

    by ufoclub1977

    Me and my friends were bashing that movie in the cafeteria in 1983. FACT. It truly is a horrendous movie, and despite having an operatic ending in concept, completely loses the magical limitless real world reflective feel of 1977's Star Wars epic scope. It even further continued the destructive use of theatrical sound stage environments that was started in Empire. Spit. 1. Jabba's muppets 2. Horrible dialogue between the unconcerned heroes throughout. It's like watching Oceans 12 or whatever. No feel of threat. No compelling or convincing character left. 2. Horrible retro idea of Ewoks with their Gilligan's Island tree huts that is just completely uncool after the ultra cool visions in Star Wars that were not childish, but a wicked combination of westerns smashed into Japanese smashed into scifi smashed into fantasy with an ADULT sophistication. Oh fuck it. I honestly cannot watch this movie. I even hate the style of reverb they put on this orchestral score (yes even in 1983 listening to the vinyl records). Compare the sound to that of Star Wars. I kid you not. In my opinion this is the worst of all 6 movies. Shed your nostalgia, you know it to be true.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 10:48 p.m. CST

    ufoclub1977 = troll

    by KilliK

    i find it extremely ridiculous to accuse ROTJ to be more childish than the PT crapfest.Jar Jar Binks was a character solely made for the kids and it's the basic argument that Lucas uses whenever he is criticized about that in his interviews: the kids liked him...

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 11 p.m. CST

    darn you Quint!

    by darthvol

    I was expecting a cool behind the scenes pic with Luke, Vader and The Emperor...but instead I get Sy Snootles.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 11 p.m. CST

    Alien 3 is not that bad. Alien 4 is the fuckshit.

    by planetran_fan

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 11:05 p.m. CST

    Most of the Criticisms Levels at the PT are valid for the OT

    by DarfurOnTheRocks2

    Let us list: 1) Wooden acting: Check 2) kiddy elements: Check 3) Implausible story elements: Check If you want to kill SW because you hate what it has become then simply stop watching the Clone Wars, and DO NOT but the upcoming Blu Ray release. Then go on Ebay and cherish your beloved OT by purchasing the Laserdisk versions :)

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 11:10 p.m. CST

    Love how in the Ewoks movies the first one spends 1hr30

    by HadWoodenTeethChasedMobyDick

    following two distrought children only hoping to find their loving parents once again and survive these star wars. and in the second one within the first 10 minutes the parents blow up.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 11:25 p.m. CST

    love ROTJ..including the Ewoks

    by Aquanaut

    Yes we all know they were originally going to go with wookiees, but going with smaller creatures was a tip of the hat to Tolkien and the idea that "even the smallest creature can change the course of history". it's funny how we hear few complaints about Hobbits. the ewoks looked like teddy bears? well Hobbits looked like what you would get if humans shared direct common ancestry with cute little bunny rabbits instead of primates. hell, it's even in the freakin name- HOminid raBBIT. they live in holes and in animation their appearance seemed to really hammer that point home. not sure why they get a free pass. i think it bears repeating that the ewoks were on their home turf and much better suited to forest fighting. the stormtroopers came prepared to fight a strong but small group of rebels...human rebels. The Ewoks were able to hold their ground through use of guerrilla tactics including ambushes and traps. knowing the terrain is a huge advantage..not to mention as was brought up earlier- the Ewoks were more camouflaged..the stormtroopers, not so much. the Ewoks weren't supposed to be intimidating...that's not the point. though i think if any of us found ourselves overwhelmed by the likes of them, and hung over a fire...i guarantee that their appearance would become merely incidental. which brings me to share my own view of why the Ewoks get more than their fair share of hate. geeks (namely, the male ones) don't like anything that isn't a stoic badass or a violent psychotic with few exceptions. the geek finds no escape from his insecurity in anything cute or "kid-friendly". it's gotta be gritty, hard-bitten and dark...the more so, the better. creatures like ewoks and hobbits represent something closer to what the geek actually is, rather than what he wishes he could be...though some will awkwardly try, wearing black dusters or something similar while scowling at people through greasy hair, and thinking to himself.."yeah...i'm a mysterious badass!"

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 11:28 p.m. CST

    man i feel so sorry for Solo frozen in his carbonite shell,

    by KilliK

    hang up there on the wall as Jabba's proud trophy,sustaining his conscience and senses,having to watch for 3 years every day Sy Snootles singing and every night Jabba fucking his slave girls,no wonder he was like so soulless,after saving him,for the rest of the movie.poor guy. -Leia: Han is it true that you maintain your senses if you put in a carbonite block? -Han: yes it is... -Leia: and how was it for you all these years in Jabba's palace? -Han: THE HORROR,THE HORROR...

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 11:38 p.m. CST

    "Most of the Criticisms Levels at the PT are valid for the OT"

    by KilliK

    OT: soul? check emotion? check drama? check characterization? check epic adventure feeling? check classic story? check character development? check PT: nothing from the above? check that's why OT will always remain the better trilogy than the PT fuckfest despite of its flaws.FACT.

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 11:46 p.m. CST

    ROTJ: a perfect bridge from the OT to the PT

    by Inexplicable_Nuclear_Balls

    Elements of prior greatness (final space battle, Luke/Vader/Palp showdown) are mixed with elements of future crap (disinterested acting, too much cutesy to sell toys, very bad attempts at humor). ANH and TESB showed us what George could create when challenged by restraint... ROTJ showed us what happened when the restraints were replaced with "yes men".

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 11:52 p.m. CST

    ROTJ was kinda like overkill when it came out.

    by MST3KPIMP

    You have to understand that SW saturated us kids for over 5 years in the form of toy ads being run everyday. By 1983 we just took it for granted thinkng it would never go away. Empire was the peak and Yoda and Boba Fett were household names. Mind you other movies were around as well redefining adventure like Indiana Jones, Conan or even Superman & Wrath of Kahn so when Jedi came out it was almost like another movie you went to just to see how it all ends instead of the unique must-see events the first 2 were. Familiarity breeds contempt. It was'nt Spidey 3 bad but it did have a certain staleness to it. I remember kids at school were casually discussing it so when I finally saw it weeks later I knew the major deaths and reveals. It just seemed the SW magic was not at its usual stadards and even kids sensed it kinda like Superman 3 which was in theaters at the same time. The public and kids had had enough & toys rotted on shelves for what seemed like years and certain figures could be had for less than a dollar towards the end which of course could be sold now on ebay for hundreds because nolstalgia plays tricks on you.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 12:06 a.m. CST

    Endor Forest setting too familiar?...

    by MST3KPIMP

    I wonder if audiences felt cheated that a space fantasy spent the bulk of it times in a familar setting like Endor. So many people live near forests of some kind that it seems too pedestrian for the SW universe. After all deserts and artic wastelands are still dangerous and mysterious for most people but who wants to see Luke and the gang hanging out on a nature perserve? Seems like after what theyve been through Endor was like a vacation.. Same thing when Kirk went to San Fransico to find them whales. Then you add in the Ewoks and your just asking for trouble.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:01 a.m. CST

    Qui-Gon's appearance on Clone Wars

    by MattmanReturns

    Was definitely not the continuity breaker everyone predicted it was going to be.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:03 a.m. CST

    And Alien 3 sucked

    by MattmanReturns

    Everyone knows that except a few talkbackers.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:04 a.m. CST

    braindrain

    by Aquanaut

    pic is from jabba's palace set in ROTJ, not ESB

  • That's the difference, and why no one complains about them. Frodo and company's mission was a covert one, which benifited greatly from their dimutive stature.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:13 a.m. CST

    Lucas might have been able to get away with the Ewoks if...

    by detinue

    ...they had been made to look deadly and vicious in their battle against the empire. Instead they ran around looking like giggling little kids. And, as someone else pointed out earlier, there needed to be more of them in the fight scencs. Lots more of them.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:33 a.m. CST

    The Ewoks kind of made fools of both sides

    by Chief Joseph

    Besides the beating the Empire thing, one of the first things they do is make our heroes look like buffoons by trapping them up in that big stupid net. They looked so ridiculous in that thing, like it was an episode of Gilligan's Island. Then they tie our guys up and carry them around on sticks. You can see the humiliation on Harrison Ford's face in those scenes, and he ain't acting. I was like 7 at the time, so Ewoks didn't bother me, but I can see why people in the two-digit age group didn't like them.

  • apparently you havent read the books and if anything else,your ignorant post showcases perfectly the fact that Jackson missed entirely the point of the LOTR books by omitting the Shire battle from the movies.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:51 a.m. CST

    aquanaut he is referring to the previous BTS PIC

    by KilliK

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:53 a.m. CST

    braindrain, you're a "half-empty" kinda guy, right?

    by Chief Joseph

    I see a lot of love for ROTJ here. I think it was the very first VHS I ever owned, so I ended up watching it more than any of the others. Just because we discuss flaws doesn't mean we hate it. And yes, Alien 3 sucked.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 2:22 a.m. CST

    NAVI >> Ewoks

    by KilliK

    at least i can fap with Neytiri.FACT.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 4:01 a.m. CST

    Am I the only person here who likes all 6 SW films?

    by thewirebitches

    Seems like it. To people talking shit, worshiping puppets and hating cgi, here is a little secret..... Ready... They both look fake because we know their fucking fake. were film fans. The special effects we don't notice are the well done ones. This hate for cgi is just old timers yearning for the older days, a completely understandable thing. There is good CGI like the T-1000, Gollum, the T-Rex, the pod race, digital Yoda (perfected in Sith). There is bad CGI like Van Helsing ( Hell every Summers movie except The Mummy, the Mummy rocked, digital Jeff bridges( just plain creep),

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 4:08 a.m. CST

    @chief joseph &Tacom

    by CeejayNightwing

    Yes Tacom I am well over 40 and unlike that idiot before saw all SW movies the year they were released and not on home video like most would have today. chief joseph, two points: 1: The guards left the room so the Emperor could be alone with Vader and Luke. "Leave us" doesn't mean "retire for the night and go to your quarters and watch the tonight show!" At what point does all the fighting and screaming not get their attention outside let alone Luke emerging with Vaders carcass being dragged behind him? 2: When the original SW came out there were no action figures to buy yet even after the initial range was released there were still characters from the movie that didn't have their action figures made till years later. by ROTJ Lucas had banked that fact and that's why he poured so much stupid characters and aliens into the movie becasue years after he'd finished trying to make up this story by the seat of his pants, Hasbro would still be releasing the lesser characters for collectors and making him easy money. Not to forget he owns 20% in Hasbro too! The bottom line is this, even after he said he didn't want to do any more SW films and crashed everything into ROTJ. Lucas released Two Ewok (caravan of Courage & Battle for Endor) movies faster than he'd released any Star Wars film and Ewok TV series. All this for merchandising purpose, he didn't want to put any energy into real SW films but he didn't mind making that crap so long as it was an easy cash-cow!

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 5:06 a.m. CST

    FX does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    thewirebitches, if you think the PT is on a quality level with the OT then good for you - you're welcome to your opinion. All I can say is your critical faculties are awful - 'my opinion' of you, which I am also welcome to.<p> As far as practical fx (whether it's a model, a muppet or a costume) versus CGI, you say "They both look fake because we know their fucking fake."<p> Except - practical fx aren't fake. They're a solid, real 'thing'. Something the actor could touch on the set and interact with. The lighting that falls on them is the same as the lighting that falls on the actor. The dust particles in the air, or the sand on the floor will coat them.<p> Take a very good example from ROTJ - Admiral Ackbar. That guy's lobster head is incredibly real looking. FAR more real looking than the multi-million fx from AVATAR. And Ackbar was 1983.<p> I also notice in your little run down of 'good and bad' examples, you didn't include Jar Jar and the Gungans?<p> One of the big strengths of the OT is the 'tangible feel' of its universe. The lived in quality. One of the big weaknessess of the PT is the 'photoshop' feel of that same universe.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 6:56 a.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    <p> A C K B A R<p> Fucking your eyeballs in '83. Nothing else matters.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 7:10 a.m. CST

    lack of Gary Kurtz, but the scriptwriting of Lawrence kasdan

    by rajium32

    that sums up Jedi for me.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 7:24 a.m. CST

    Ian McDiarmid was pretty damn good...

    by simonlovejoy

    ... in those prequels. The last one, anyhow. Revisiting it last weekend, although the performances as a whole were pretty dire (not to mention the woodfaced tool who was supposed to represent the walking bag of evil that was Darth Vader), McDiarmid was oily and noncommital enough for me throughout the flick to easily have been a sith lord all along.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 8:30 a.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    <p> Δ C K B Δ R<p> Fucking your eyeballs in '83. Nothing else matters

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 9:11 a.m. CST

    KILLIK

    by ufoclub1977

    Yes Jar is very silly, but I would rather look at it's design (is it a man or woman?) then that of the Ewok's and their villages. Return of the Jedi suffers from something that I think goes above the heads of many viewers: Atrophied conceptual effort. I think that's a worse sin, since truly Lucas was a pioneer of extreme (even post modern) conceptual effort with Star Wars. Retro: cinematic transitions, plot flow, terminology (including the titles), score style - slammed against - futuristic tech design (that in itself mashed up NASA with Japanese fantasy with Frazetta) - slammed against real elements like dirt, grit, functionality that reflected 1977, like garages, corvettes, repairs, teenage angst, women's lib... that is high concept. At least the prequels retained some of the conceptual effort (I understand they have no functional stories or characters). Return of the Jedi truly lost it! (But yes it did in basic outline form functionally continue the characters in a very lame fashion)

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 10:19 a.m. CST

    Killik

    by sith_rising

    I did a series of videos that were meant to show that every anal RLM style inspection of the Original Trilogy would find the many, many flaws with those films. It started off as two or three videos, but upon further examination, I realized that the OT was such an enormous clusterfuck, full of plotholes and problems that far overshadow any Prequel shit, it turned out to be 14 fucking videos. Check them out if you have time, and feel free to email me a vicious email. I've gotten some pretty scathing ones so far lol

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 10:19 a.m. CST

    linky

    by sith_rising

    http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhum

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 10:51 a.m. CST

    Lapti Nek

    by maxjohnson1971

    I STILL have that 45 from when the movie came out. I'm trying to remember what was on the B-side. I think it was the Ewoks song. I'm not sure. I can't believe Lucas changed that in the SE. I still have not seen the SE by the way. Perhaps when my original laserdisc versions are back in my hands, I'll do a comparison. Could be fun.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 10:52 a.m. CST

    And that Ewok celebration music?

    by maxjohnson1971

    Perhaps Lucas will tinker with the movie a bit more and replace the Ewok music with the "musical" number from "Caveman" starring Ringo Starr and Dennis Quaid. Atok allunda Lana!! Zug zug!

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 11:02 a.m. CST

    sith_rising does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    sith_rising I don't have the time to sit through 14 youtube vids to see what 'plotholes and problems' you uncovered, but go on - I'd be interested to read it if you post up a shortlist of the most egregious examples?

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 11:08 a.m. CST

    say what?

    by sith_rising

    that would take forever. the ironic thing is, TESB is the best film ever made, but has more problems than the other 5 SW films. go figure. I guess you let a lot of shit slide in 3rd grade. I suppose that's why kids love the Prequels? I bet in 20 years when we get episodes 7-9, they'll be ripping them apart, talking about the good old days of SW, the Matrix, LOTR and Harry Potter. such is life.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 12:32 p.m. CST

    Actually Jedi isn't bad as far as third movies go

    by room23storeblogspotcom

    You should see Karate Kid 3, now thats a bad 3rd movie. No offence to cobra--kai. The third movie has the rehash of the tournament along with that cheesy charactcature of the rich ponytailed bad guy. Also Mr. Myagi & Daniel San were out of character with Daniel aparantly not learning the lessions from the previous movies and Mr Myagi not helping him out. <br> <br> Sure theres problems with Jedi, But I really like it and felt that it was a great finish to a great series with all of the Emporer/Luke/Vader stuff, that and I actually like the Ewoks and Jabba the Hutt. I wish that Lucas would have just stopped right there with no more movies or just wrote it and had someone else direct. I believe that Spilberg did the Anikin/Obi-Wan fight and Scorsese did the Opera scene with Palpatine & Anakin which I felt were the best scenes of Sith. So maybe the PRequels would have been better directed by someone else?

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 12:45 p.m. CST

    Re: Killik

    by darthwaz1

    I don't think the rebels had won the war at that point, they were celebrating the death star victory and death of palpatine. Without Sidious running the empire it was probably gonna die soon after anyway. Like a snake w/it's head cut off.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:02 p.m. CST

    sith_rising here we go again:

    by KilliK

    OT had soul PT was soulless surely you do know about the cinematic art and how emotions,drama and characterization are brought into the movies through it,right? besides i am pretty sure your "tearing apart" technique of the OT is like this: "what if","they should","here's how you solve it","i the viewer i am cleverer than the fictional characters",and so on. spare me with this kind of cold dissection of films.i know it's what RLM uses a lot in his reviews,and i am against it,but he also explains in a very clear way why the PT flicks are emotionless and without characters from a pure cinematic point of view. that's where you should focus on,like why the love-hate relationship between Leia/Solo work so well or why the dynamic of Vader/Luke is so dramatic and not about things like why Tarkin had to wait for the Alderaan planet to come into the DS' line of sight instead of blowing both the gas planet which was in front of Alderaan and then Alderaan all together.

  • more real looking than this?: http://bit.ly/hudwbS i say bollocks.i agree with you arguments but lets not exaggerate that much,shall we?

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Cobra--Kai my point was

    by thewirebitches

    That the audience today is so accustomed to visual effects that when they see a practical effect and a computer generated effect side by side, and if done correctly with care, they accept it. Only when something looks amiss do the alarms start to go off. I'm talking the dreaded MTV generation here, not the 40 year old guy who saw SW in it's initial run and later took every change to their beloved saga as a direct punch to the gut perpetrated by Mr.Lucas himself. Now I get that, My first SW experience was in 97 with the SE. when the DVDs came around the changes pissed me off yes they did. I mean why change Fetts voice? Fucking ridiculous! And Admiral Ackbar looks real to you, yea he is real to me to. I first met him when I was a kid and like a kid I didn't question a giant fish commanding an armada. but his lips ain't exactly articulate are they, as they flap directing orders.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:39 p.m. CST

    James Brown got soul, not OT or PT then?! :)

    by DarfurOnTheRocks2

    I think once we rinse the nostalgia out of the OT, the similarities are easily seen. Give the PT 20 plus years for 5 year olds become 25 year old and we may very well find that the difference between the two trilogies will cease to exist.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Oh and the Classic trilogy of course is better

    by thewirebitches

    better written, better acted, better directed. Well Empire is. Look at the original Star Wars and tell me the same director didn't direct and write the prequels. but Revenge of the Sith rocks, it's not perfect far from it but it feels important, deep, and epic. again it's not the best acted or written film but neither is ANH or Jedi.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:45 p.m. CST

    If you saw Rotj when you're 9, Ewoks were OK.

    by iceman199

    If you were 19 or 29 or 39...not so much.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Let's Give Praise to the Real Creators of SW

    by DarfurOnTheRocks2

    Lucas had fuck all to do with SW. Let us give praise to: -Marcia Lucas -Gary Kurtz -Lawrence Kasdan -Kurosawa -Ben Burt -John Williams -Gendy Tarkovski These are the true champions of SW, fighting against the tyranny of the Evil Lucas, who did not do anything right.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:46 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    killik, oh yes I'm a big fan of AVATAR, loved it. But if you're suggesting the Navi were 'photo real', as tangible as what you'd see in a nature docu, then you're clearly exaggerating. Ackbar is photo real because he WAS real. Neytiri was the best cartoon money can currently buy.<p> Watch a snippet of Admiral Ackbar in ROTJ and then a scene of Neytiri, there's no comparison. He's the most 'real' looking alien creation in the whole Star Wars trilogy imho.<p> Perhaps if we compared Neytiri to a Gamorrean Guard however...

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:51 p.m. CST

    The Greatness of the PT resides in its Political Commentary of the US

    by DarfurOnTheRocks2

    It was the right movie for the time. The People signing away civil liberties and Constitution rights for protection against an enemy that does not exist..... or at least is amplified..... GL went there.... Opps, I see unrest in Egypt is gonna jack up the price of gas now....

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 1:51 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    thewirebitches, cool thanks for the response. I agree with you - particularly about Fett's voice?!<p> Why'd he have to have the same voice as Jango? Does anyone have the exact same voice as their dad?!!

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 2:08 p.m. CST

    THAT VADAR/ANAKIN CLONE IDEA IS ACTUALLY DAMN GOOD

    by Simpsonian

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 3:02 p.m. CST

    ROTJ is a frustrating movie...

    by ChickenStu

    Parts of it are good, and parts of it are bad. The good: The culmination of Luke's journey, the redemption of Darth Vader, the rescue of Han Solo, and the kick ass space battle at the end. The bad: Lazy performances, a plot that's at times little more than a retread of the original, the clumsily handled plot twist (Luke and Leia are siblings now?) and Obi Wan Kenobi's lame justification for lying to Luke all this time. The indifferent: Ewoks. I have no particular opinion on them either way. Yeah OK, it may have been ploy to sell some toys, but come on, people ARE in this business to make money... It's a movie that has me banging my head against a wall, trying to decide whether it's a good one or not. In a weird way, another movie that suffers from similiar problems is "The Lost World: Jurassic Park". It has good stuff and bad stuff. Which is a crying shame, cause it SHOULD'VE worked. It reminds me a lot of ROTJ in a lot of ways.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 3:16 p.m. CST

    cobra kia

    by nico_laos

    He's his clone, dude. He considered Boba his son but it was really an 'unaltered' clone. This was covered in AOTC. It makes perfect sense that he'd have Jango's voice as an adult.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 3:25 p.m. CST

    @Braindrain

    by ChickenStu

    Fuckin A. Mark Hamill carried the movie! His performance as Luke over the course of the three movies, there just wasn't a bum note. He created the character arc perfectly. I think today, if he'd made the right choices... he could have the reputation of someone like say, Christopher Walken, or hell, even De Niro - AND would probably have a couple of oscars under his belt! He's like Michael Biehn... all the ingredients were there... and what the fuck happened?!?!

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 3:48 p.m. CST

    ROJ = Beyond Thunderdome

    by darthwaz1

    Lucas & co. had a great 1-2 punch going w/the first 2 movies, just like the first 2 mad max films. Similarly to Thunderdome, Jedi brought on more childishness/goofiness and was in large parts a a re-tread. Actually Last Crusade suffered from similar problems. However, I tend to ignore thunderdome and embrace Jedi, maybe cuz I just care more about SW. On a different subject, what's with every jedi using a lightsaber? when i was a kid i thought different jedi would have different functions, like healers or just powerful force-wielders. What if a Hutt was a jedi? how could he possibly use a lightsaber?

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 3:54 p.m. CST

    @darthwaz1

    by ChickenStu

    When I was a kid, I thought the Jedi would be like cops. They all work out of a precinct, and Yoda was kind of like a desk sergeant. At the end of the day, the Jedi go home to wives and families, and were kind of blue collar. When the prequels came out, and they were these robed knight figures, who operate out of a temple - and have to take a vow of celebacy, I was like "What the fuck?!?" All through my childhood I wanted to be a Jedi knight. When I saw what they were like in "The Phantom Menace", that rapidly became no longer the case...

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 5:53 p.m. CST

    Ape

    by room23storeblogspotcom

    Well Hamil was argueable one of the best movie/TV versions of the Joker in Batman the Animated Series, but yeah it is to bad that he didn't manage to do the same thing as Harrison Ford or better.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 5:54 p.m. CST

    @damn_dirty_ape

    by ChickenStu

    As I brit, I personally have to suppress a giggle whenever "shitake mushrooms" are mentioned...

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 6:12 p.m. CST

    Nostalgia should already be in play.

    by Chief Joseph

    Phantom Menace was 12 years ago. Jake Lloyd is of drinking age. I see '90s kids getting nostalgic about Power Rangers and The Matrix, but not TPM. I also think something has to go away completely for nostalgia to kick in.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 6:17 p.m. CST

    special edition ROTJ end music blows away the original

    by Gordon Bombay

    It is supposed to be an epic, end of the Empire theme, which the new one is. Some of Williams' best work. The original Ewok music is lame in comparison.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 6:17 p.m. CST

    Lucas should CG that poor bastard some legs.

    by Orion

    and where the hell is Luke? That headline is misleading.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 6:28 p.m. CST

    The Ewoks ruined the dark, redemption tone of Jedi.

    by Orion

    Wookies would've worked better.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 6:46 p.m. CST

    A sequel trilogy

    by ChickenStu

    Should be set generations later. The Jedi are making things OK in the galaxy again, but are more like blue collar cops. The events of the original movies and the prequels have passed into legend, and no one can be sure if it actually really happened or not. It's like a myth to them, like a religion. No one actually knows if "The Force" exists or not, and people who claim that it does are looked down upon as crazy. The story should focus on an orphaned young street urchin, who's lived a life of crime. He knows nothing about himself, yet is troubled by strange dreams. One day, in a moment of extreme stress, he's able to levitate and object. He seems to be strong in the force. It turns out that this young man, is the last living descendant of the Skywalkers. The Sith is returning one final time, and this young man must take up the mantle of his ancestors, so that the Jedi can be victorious once again. Luke Skywalker appears as a Force ghost. But that's it.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 6:50 p.m. CST

    JEDI is lightyears better than the prequels

    by FleshMachine

    it had heart and drama. oh and characters we actually gave a shit about.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 6:51 p.m. CST

    Did anyone care about anyone in the prequles? no. thats why they suck.

    by FleshMachine

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 6:52 p.m. CST

    no one bitched about ewok until it became fashionable a decade later

    by FleshMachine

    at the time we all loved them..i still do fuck you you heartless pricks, little people in furry costumes waay better than cgi creatures.

  • in ROTS,they are still discussing more about the ewoks battle in ROTJ... it was that memorable the Wookie battle,huh? again ROTJ wins.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 8:13 p.m. CST

    TPM > ROTJ > ROTS

    by performingmonkey

    Okay, here we have basically 3 piece-of-shit movies (ANH and ESB are good, while AOTC is so fucking terrible I can't even bear to discuss it...), though each has their plus points. I can't think of what they are for ROTS...but just hear me out, fatherfuckers. TPM is not only the best prequel, for several reasons, one of them being the fact that it was shot on film, another being that it featured a couple of semi-genuine performances from Liam Neeson and Ian McDiarmid, TPM is also better than Jedi - fact. Jedi is only a good movie if you think of it through your 7-year-old-self's eyes. The fact that this piece of destroyed soul followed ESB makes it that much worse. TPM is vibrant, visually amazing, has the podrace sequence which still blows me away, has the Darth Maul fight which is genuinely exciting and one of the only times the prequels had us on the edges of our seats (come on, admit it). The best saber fight ever. The battle droids were amazingly groundbreaking effects. All the exteriors from Italy, Tunisia etc. were gorgeous. They didn't do ANY exterior shooting for ROTS... Anyhow, all TPM needs is a few tweaks here and there and you have a great film, especially compared with ROTJ, ESPECIALLY the special edition(s). Can't wait for CGI Yoda.

  • Jan. 29, 2011, 8:23 p.m. CST

    @chickenstu..

    by darthwaz1

    I never thought the jedi might have been cops, well sort of in a way, they kept the peace so in that sense I guess you can say police. But the fact that in the OT you had Ben, Yoda, and Anakin's ghost wearing those brown robes made me realize that there was something of a monk or samurai order about them. My point is that in the prequels/clone wars made it seem like you can't be a Jedi unless you're a saber-wielding badass. When I was a kid I thought that maybe the saber fighting guys would've been the warriors, and then there would be the "yoda class" jedi, who would be more serene, mentally powerful guys who had already gone through they're warrior days.

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 12:35 a.m. CST

    Braindrain - wrong again

    by STICKY WHITE

    You have that exactly backwards. Marquand was NOT a member of the guild. Kershner WAS a member. That's why Irvin was fined something like $25,000 because Lucas was adamant about putting his director's credit at the end of the film instead of at the beginning. Also, that guild nonsense had nothing to do with Kershner not coming back for Jedi. In fact, here's a quote from the man himself on why he didn't come back: "After working for two years and nine months doing Empire, and having it take so much out of my life and having given me so much, I felt that it was a complete experience and it was time to move on."

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 12:43 a.m. CST

    These very same reasons were why Spielberg couldn't direct Jedi

    by STICKY WHITE

    Or be credited for his direction of some bits of ROTS. All BECAUSE Steven is/was a member of the Guild.

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 1:45 a.m. CST

    Obviously you care..

    by STICKY WHITE

    about talking out of your ass ad nauseam. Why would you try to answer damn_dirty_ape's question otherwise, if it wasn't just another opportunity to prove your total idiocy?

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 1:58 a.m. CST

    Calm as can be

    by STICKY WHITE

    No need to start crying because your ignorance/trolling was pointed out.

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 2:09 a.m. CST

    Does that turn you on?

    by STICKY WHITE

    Thinking about assholes that is. So which is it? I'm either in prison or I'm a soldier? You do realize that you can post from anywhere these days right? You can even do it on a cellular telephone! I say this even though I realize you have no need for one of those things, as you would have no one to call and no one that will call you either...besides your mom when she needs you to bring the car back home.

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 2:14 a.m. CST

    Comparing the Ewok battle and Wookie batt

    by thewirebitches

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 2:20 a.m. CST

    Is just dumb.

    by thewirebitches

    one was the final battle in a SW film, where everything was riding on Han deactivating the Death Star's shield, and Ewoks had to save our heroes. the other was more of a plot device. Yoda needed to be off in some Clone War battle preoccupied so Sidious could take out the Jedi remaining at the temple. the wookie battle was what maybe a whole 2 mins of action if that. How bout compare Obi-Wan vs Anakin or Yoda vs Sidious, and the end Ewok battle in Jedi. You see those are comparable. And Sith wins I'm sorry. handedly.

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 9:57 a.m. CST

    To the pair that are arguing above me...

    by ChickenStu

    Guys... we're talking about the Star Wars films here, not trying to sort out peace in the fuckin' middle east or something. How the hell can a chat about a series of sci-fi films turn into a personal slanging match? Never understood it.

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 11:23 a.m. CST

    ceejaynightwing

    by phifty2

    Where to start? I'll not say much except... Mon Mothma was the leader of the Rebellion. Not a good idea to have her around our main characters who are constanly in danger. It's like you're asking to see the president on the front lines of a battlefield leading the charge. Lando, Luke's skills, various other points; there was a year between Empire and Jedi. It may not be enough to train a normal Jedi but this is the son of one of the most powerful.. I've lost interest.

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 11:44 a.m. CST

    braindrain

    by phifty2

    "Critics slammed Jedi when it was out" No they didn't. Ebert gave it four stars. Others claimed it was better than Empire(they're wrong).

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Anyone who says Jedi is better than Empire...

    by ChickenStu

    is wrong.

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 12:58 p.m. CST

    Sorry about that chickenstu

    by STICKY WHITE

    As you can see, it started with me correcting the drain's erroneous information concerning Kersh, Marquand and the DGA, but the dude can't handle that kind of discourse, so I gave a little of his tiresome snark right back to him. Notice there wasn't any slanging until he decided that instead of just saying "whoops, my bad" he needed to get all whiny and say "who cares". If no one cared, why did he even try to answer to damn_dirty_ape's query with information all backwards and totally incorrect? He was either trolling or just simply misinformed so I gave him the benefit of the doubt and erred on the side of him just being ignorant of the facts but his response proved he was pure troll as usual. He brought that shit onto himself really. Didn't mean to offend you in the process.

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 2:42 p.m. CST

    braindrain

    by STICKY WHITE

    Who cares?

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 4:33 p.m. CST

    Stop being a douche braindrain

    by STICKY WHITE

    And I will. Until then, you're just going to have to come up with more ways to call me doodoo face.

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 4:56 p.m. CST

    drainedbrain

    by STICKY WHITE

    Have you got one of those things in your head set to ignore anything close to a coherent thought?

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 7:43 p.m. CST

    Harrison Ford

    by proevad

    Trying to look happy...clapping and singing along to Ewok music during that final shot. That's the image that comes to mind when someone mentions this movie. Not a good image.

  • Jan. 30, 2011, 8:40 p.m. CST

    Fleshmachine

    by proevad

    You're trying to re-write history. Ewoks were hated then too, along with the muppet show at the beginning of the movie. You have to be a republican.

  • The Scouring of the Shire occured well after the war was decided and over. The Ring had already been destroyed and Sauron's power and armies gone with it. While on the other hand, the Ewoks took on the Empire at full strength. Now, if divisions of Hobbits had seen action at Helm's Deep or Pelennor Fields you might have a point. But they didn't, and you don't. (Oh, and by his own admission, Tolkien's meaning for that chapter of the story was as an allegory showing the perils of industrialisation, particularly in that Frodo and company returned home from the war to find that even in the Shire the life they knew before had been changed irrevocably and was gone forever. After the battle of Endor, as far as we are shown, Ewok culture and society are left unchanged and intact.)

  • Jan. 31, 2011, 8:23 a.m. CST

    The Jabbas Palace sequence was cool, too.

    by AshMcQ

    I mean, how cool was that when you saw luke in this badass black jedisuit. And you think to yourself: "Oh my god, maybe hes gonna turn evil in this movie." Plus the giant monster. And Leia! Iconic!

  • Jan. 31, 2011, 1:07 p.m. CST

    I don't hate ROTJ...

    by Damned if I can login

    But I was a little perplexed as to how Vader, after all the years of uncounted acts of pure evil, gets total redemption by helping Luke a bit against the emperor. I would've preferred that he just die. Let's just remember folks, if Lucus had his way TESB would *not* be the brilliance we have now. Luckily, other ideas that were much better prevailed at the time. The reason so many are disappointed with ROTJ is because Lucus did get his way with that film.

  • Jan. 31, 2011, 1:50 p.m. CST

    Is it just me?

    by Audio_of_Being

    Or does Guinness look uncomfortable giving the retcon speech about why he told Luke that Vader killed his father instead of telling him they where the same person? I get the feeling that he knows its shitty writing explaining away a plothole Lucas created and the professional in him doesn't want to recite the line. Of course, it's not as bad as the Syfo Dais bullshit in episode 2 which was supposed to be happening during episode 1 but was never in the slightest alluded to.

  • Jan. 31, 2011, 4:41 p.m. CST

    Sticky white

    by ChickenStu

    No sweat. I think a couple of people here might think I'm a troll. I've just recently got a little bit over defensive in the Superman talkbacks, and I don't think I did myself any favours... oh well. Got to fight for what we believe innit?

  • Jan. 31, 2011, 10:32 p.m. CST

    Holy crap.

    by dockealy

    Amen.

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