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Harry undertakes a top secret mission to get a glimpse of the inside of X-MEN.... details on CEREBRO, Costumes & more..
Sometimes I find it necessary to take matters into my own hands. After the SPIDER-MAN debacle of rumors this past week, I decided to follow-up on that... 'other' Marvel project that has been taking quite a bit of hits from... well... just about everyone. I decided that I had had enough. It was time to cash in some frequent flyer miles and use my FOX contacts to get me access to images and designs that... otherwise, I should never see (until the 'making of book' anyways).
Card keys and signings in. First there was the problem with gaining admittance to the lot... I had a source leave a drive on pass for an assumed name... guards never check photo IDs... ever.
Amazing... all these years... and getting on a lot is still easy for a redheaded circus freak like myself. Without a single wrong turn I found myself at the office of my magic little elf, who would allow me admittance to a certain... ahem.... place for me to see a lot of stuff.
First up... Let's just go on and tackle WOLVERINE. I only saw one of his costumes, and I can only assume it's from when he has officially 'joined up'. In this shot I can definitely see what people were talking about when describing these as being a bit MATRIX-y. This isn't any... known Wolverine costume. It's black... form fitting, with deep dark reddish sorta colored jacket type thing tucked into these mid-forearm lengthed gloves. The claws jut out through these gloves. The body positioning was hunched, as if ready to spring upon someone. The hair was... Wolverine hair and did not seem to denote any big hair problems. And... he seemed a bit upset. Now... the issue for me comes in the movement of this character. If he moves the way Wolverine is supposed to... then this costume would look cool... but if he just poses about... well... suckola.
Now... for MAGNETO... This costume did not ooze suckage. In fact it did have a good amount of style to it, and looked pretty cool to me. Starting with the helmet... is a bit... I don't know... It isn't quite MAGNETO's helmet. In actuality, imagine crossing the old Mandarin's mask with Magneto's helmet. Ok... that didn't help. It has a domed out top, which leads down to bit of a violent 'M' like shape that frames the face quite nicely. I only saw this from a straight on shot... so I can't describe the way it looks... all the way around, but the tips of the 'M' were pointed and violent looking, while the points above the eyebrows were more rounded. Now... onto the costume proper.... As described previously... it is a grey... a real dark dark grey... Executive material.... The comment about the 'Tarkin collar' before was appropriate... the cape is not a flat across the back type of cape... in fact the end of it is rounded, with a deep deep red material for the inside of the cape. The costume is very tapered, in the sense that the shoulders are very broad, with lines and folds in the cloth that accentuate a thinner waist. Quite regal in a militaristic manner. The pants are quite loose and 'Buck Roger-y' in the sense that ROCKETEER manner.... it's all this dark dark grey though. Non-emotional... very.. formal looking.
PROFESSOR X.... First off.. the wheelchairs.... I saw two. The first one is a picture perfect reproduction of the wheelchair from the first few issues of X-MEN comics... I assume this is the wheelchair we'll see him in, when he's in public (specifically the Congressional scenes). Then there is the... Other Wheelchair, which looked quite a bit like the Professor X wheelchair from the latter Clairmont years, right before the complete hoverchair, but the one that was pretty dang high tech looking. He is... Bald of course, one can never be sure... remember, they put that damn wig on Lex Luthor in SUPERMAN.... The coolest series of shots I saw of Xavier were of him going into the room housing CEREBRO...
CEREBRO... first... there is the entrance into the room that holds CEREBRO... It's very mechanically cool looking... Cold lighting from above, the doors are circular, with a stylized beveled 'X' into them... they part and recede into the walls. There is a lit area around the rounded doorways... This is pretty damn cool looking. Then, there is a platform that leads into a very dark orb-ish room. As Cerebro hums to life, Xavier sits upon his wheel chair arms out stretched, as though commanding some oracle to come to life. The lighting on him is dramatic and from down low... and overall... the impression is awe... the room seems quite large from the image and the scale. Some of the X-Men stood behind him, hid in the shadows backlit from the stark lighting from the exterior room. In ol Charlie's wheelchair arms are some controls of some sort that give him... control.
The three X-babes.... Jean Grey, Rogue and Storm... To start with, Jean Grey.... She's in a semi-Trinity outfit, but around the knee area, the costume had rippled-like areas... You ever play with Major Matt Mason toys? Remember the sort of YM-3 accordian armed nature? Kinda like that, but in the hip, thigh and calf area it's form fitting. As for the top half... well, in this shot she wore the zipper down to right above the cleavage area, but it looks as if it could be zipped to below the chin, and the zipper could be pulled to her crotch, if undressing was what you had in mind. The abdomen area of the costume was... corsetted looking. Her hands were exposed, and she looked a bit hot. Once again... much will be told when we see her in MOTION. I really can't stress that part enough. Still shots of the costumes can be... manipulated... But in still form, while it isn't any existing X-Men costume... It doesn't SUCK outright. Rogue... all I saw of her, was a brief... mysterious shot of her, wearing a green 'jedi-ish' hood, with her face in shadows. Of all the characters I had access to at this location... that's all I could make out. The fact GREEN was used gave me hope that perhaps... maybe we'll get a good ol calling back to the early days of Rogue. Then STORM... she's always been the most stylish of the X-women for me. No mohawk.... no LOOOOONG flowing white hair... instead it's white hair, but in a bit of that old White Queen haircut, from the Hellfire Club days. She is in a similar black-Matrix-y costume, but with a cape that DOES attach to the wrists, and forms a bit of that ol 'infinity' lazy eight type of thing. I can't wait to see her fly in this thing. The female costumes looked sexy and ready for fighting.
SABRETOOTH... of the bunch... the least intriguing to me. I saw photos of him merely in a passive state... not really the impression or shots that I wanted to see. But... hey... beggars can't be choosers. The disturbing part is his long blonde hair, which... is a bit too... viking-y for me. He does have a pronounced brow, but in the shots I've seen... the word... "klingon-y" is not appropriate. He has the sideburns that lead into a moustache, and he looks friggin huge. He was wearing a floorlength brown leather overcoat that had once seen better days. The shots were not the best in the world, but you could see that his fingers came to exaggerated points. He seemed to be wearing basically normal clothes beneath the coat though.
MYSTIQUE.... For anyone that slobbered over 7of9... well... Mystique looks hot. Same sort of haircut as 7of9... but deep red... blue skin, basically nudish. And I'll give Stamos credit in that field... she has the right body to be nudish. The scales were imperceptible in these shots, but if others say they are there... hey... maybe they are. Do I miss the white dress and that badass necklace? yes. But... this doesn't SUCK. I really do want to see some nice good shots from the film itself, rather than these character sheets and bad conditioned photos... but... I did get the idea that her eyes would be replaced digitally with yellow oversized eyes... at least from the early designs...
CYCLOPS.... Once again, MATRIX-y... but his black leather/latex whatever has a raised... subtle X to it. The lighting caught it right so here and ya know... I lived through them bad X-FACTOR costumes... I can live with this. Above his visor, his hair is uncovered and lose... Looks kinda good. We'll see...
MAGNETO's Lair..... looks as if it were carved 'Guns of Navorone-style' out of a mountain. The archways are round with these metal braces. Magneto's desk is solitary and lonely looking. Nothing upon it besides his elbows. Behind him, the carved cave wall erodes away seemingly to reveal a big metal wall, with a circular window or exit or something that I couldn't perceive behind him. It was... again... pretty cool.
Overall... this stuff did not look bad. There was no NEON. There were no big Club Eros styled naked adonis men statues. The shots I was seeing were publicity shots... not frames from the film footage, so it's impossible to pass judgement on how the look of the film will ultimately come across. The main thing is... they did not look STUPID. Magneto's lair and Cerebro were Waaaaaay cool looking. Sabretooth could have been better... there was an additional shot of him in a outfit of somesort that was a bit... suit-looking. Very odd choice in my mind for a character as savage as his is supposed to be.
I may very well be returning to L.A. this weekend for further studies... I have not decided as of yet. Screw it... I'll go. I need to see more and since there was only 5 hours between my flights, and traffic is such hell in LA... well... sure I could have stayed, but then I would have missed seeing PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID, THE SHINING and DRUGSTORE COWBOY at the Drafthouse tonight. sigh... So much to do... so little time...
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Thanks for the report, Harry. Next time bring your digital camera so you can share the wealth, okay? Fred4Sure
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I didn't get what I wanted...I'm gonna go cry now and sulk and cuss and bithch and moan....
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This still sunds great. I really wanna see Scott and Jeans costumes. Keep up the gook work Harry! Any chance you could get some photos?
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WOW, 1st. What an honor. Hope noone's yping faster than me...
Ya know, Harry ol' bean, this hwole Xman gig has had me very cautious from the start. Given tinsel towns record with Marvel (ie. Spiderman, Hulk, etc), I am very cautious about how this is going to go. However, there was that made for tv thing a couple years back, and it's didn't completely suck, plus Patrick Stewart's in it, and he's only done one other thing that really sucked, so I remain gauarded.
I'm a mid-school xman fan, issue's 94 - 150 or so. When the whole xaman thing took off. I miss the fact nightcrawler & colossus are not in this film, it's passed me.
Well, I lost my thought, so I'm bailing. I just hope this doesn't completely suck. I remain guarded and I will not get my hopes up.
War Chris O'Donnell.
Just kidding.
Milo -
Harry here. I guarantee you ol Fox did not 'invite me anywhere'. Bryan Singer does not KNOW I saw what I saw or even what I saw. Mechanic is one of my biggest critics. This was real life behind the scenes, as for seeing you in hell. You first my friend. You first.
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God Goddy God God. Matrix-y? "It'll look more realistic", some art goon said at the drawing board. we need realistic representations of guys with optic blasts and chicks controlling the weather. ah, super de duper. yes, yes I know the batman costume in the pictures looked very different from the comic. and it did become something of an icon in it's own right. some of this sounds like a criminally bad idea, however. this seems like more of an attempt to differentiate itself from the comics than to adapt and enhance. "wah wah fanboy you haven't seen anything yet." Fine, oh high and mighty He-Who's-Also-Posting-Talkbacks-About-A-Comic-Book-Movie.
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Harry, sucky X-Force outfits? Don't you mean sucky X-FACTOR outfits? The X-Force was totally kick ass back in the day. Liefeld was at the top of his game. But those old X-Factor outfits, they weren't quite so bad either.
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Harry's not bloated. He's big boned.
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The purpose of the report yesterday was to A) confirm my own report.... B) Give us an advanced description of the 2nd GRINCH poster and C)to describe the lamp poles which I failed to mention and simply to have another set of eyes get excited by what they saw. Whenever I get invited to a set it is in the hopes that I will like what I see. This is why I am usually only asked to visit... impressive sets. I go because... frankly... I can't imagine not going to check out the Grinch set when no other reporter or outsider had been given admittance to that set. Of course, I completely concede your right to be a cynical lil bastard doubting my every word. You haven't seen it. Just as I am often times cynical about what I have not seen... ie... SPIDER-MAN stuff currently... It's the reason I dig for information the way I do. I like to be able to make an informed judgement. So... there ya have it.
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By the way, speaking of The Grinch, I am much more excited about this project than anything else in developement except LOR. Anyone else beginning to lose interest in X-Men yet? To much hype on the front end...
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Anyone who believes they are not a "sell-out" on some level is living inside a ticking time bomb. And as far as Hell goes, it all depends on your willingness to give in to Dark Ages propoganda. Hell didn't exist until we created it out of our own need to conform to social structure by fear of punishment. Nowhere in the Old Testament does the word Hell appear until translated into European language. The correct name is Sheol, which is simply the Hebrew name for the afterlife. Not flames, not punishment, just death for good and bad alike. It's all in the translation, baby.
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All these costumes seem good enough for me (even though the Matrix is not my favorite). Harry, did you see what Toad looks like? Also, is the trailer release date confirmed? If it really is Dec. 17th then I can't wait. You gotta admit though, Singer has done a fairly good job of keeping the set secret, I mean, they've been shooting for months and we still have no real pictures (I personally think that cyclops visor pic was leaked to provoke interest). Oh well, thats my rant.
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Ok guys. Seriously.
Why do Hollywood dumb-butt's always want to make changes to superhero costumes that have been around for YEARS!
Comic book companies should get some backbone and make one of the biggest demands to leave characters as close to known drawings as possible! I know they say they do changes for those that don't read the books, which to me is EXACTLY why they don't need the changes. -
Why is it that Mr.Knowles is trying so hard not to criticize this X-MEN film when there is a good possibility that the movie will suck??? Meanwhile, when there is any mention of SPIDER-MAN and SONNENFELD, the guy has this need to tell all of Hollywood that this is the worst idea ever. Why doesn't he give Sonnenfeld a chance? We're all giving Singer a chance, right? I'm just ranting here, but basically what I'm trying to say is if we should give ALL filmmakers a chance to either make our dreams of seeing our favorite comic book characters on the big screen or screw it up royaly. Don't be so quick to judge.
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Sounds good.
Heck, costumes which look good in comics often bite. I've read plenty of comics and seen plenty of cartoons to realize that if many of these were made live-action, they would be a big joke if the look wasn't changed for film.
But even if the outfits sucked, I wouldn't write the movie off. The outfits won't determine if the movie will be good or bad.
So don't worry, people, about the characters' choice of wardrobe.
Clothes don't make the man. -
You just can't tell where all this stuff is coming from anymore! I don't want to call anyone a sell out, but...I e-mailed Harry twice about possibly using this site as a launch-pad to help get David Lynch's new series 'Mulholland Drive' on the air. Harry likes to paint himself as a lover of film and TV; a hater of how studios and executives can ruin projects, and a suporter of talent. And yet, despite his professed love for David Lynch's latest "Straight Story," he failed to even respond to me on both occasions. As a result I can only assume that he doesn't want to use this site to make any waves with his connections, despite that the cause is absolutely worthy and exactly the type of thing Harry claims to support. So, in light of the above, I don't think I have any choice but to label him a pawn of the studios and a complete and total fraud. Why else would he not help get what could most likely be the best new show in a long time on the air?
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I'll keep saying this until Harry boots my ass off the site. Why did they change the costumes? Because Comic Book costumes look ridiculous when you're trying to represent these characters as if they're running around in the "real" world. The solution? Have them running around in the Marvel Universe, dammit! Set the damn movie in a world where superheroes have been causing havok since 1940! You wouldn't have to spend too much time establishing the fact that this is not the same Earth we live in. Burton managed to do it. Why won't anyone else? P.S. to Fawst: Liefeld was never on the top of any game, ever.
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Give everyone a chance? Well the reasons Harry doesn't want Sonnefeld to direct Spider-Man is because he's had several chances to make a good movie and never quite came through.
I agree that there always seems to be something missing in Sonnefeld's films. I liked Men in Black...but still the whole time it just seemed kinda..shallow. I definitely would not want that to happen to Spider-Man.
As for Harry's high hopes for X-Men?
Well we've had some good news pass through this site on more than one occaision and it tends to make you want the movie to succeed since it's come so far, you want it to be good. Spider-Man hasn't hit preproduction yet as far as we know, not even casting. There's still time to get rid of the bad ideas before they sink in and ..well, sink the project.
As for whoever said no one is ever objectional. Not entirely true. There are a great many things that some of us have no emotional attachment to, things we can't afford to run out and get, then wind up defending our purchase, leaving us to sit an look at the competition and see things how they are.
This is definitely not the case for everything or everyone. It's all on the people and the topic. -
The point is...and it is the undeniable truth, every person who visits this site will see this movie. Bottom line. And I'll see you there.
Now, keeping an open mind about this film while reading this site is indeed difficult. But try this point of view: I call it the Stephen King Factor.
Whenever one of King's stories has been handled on film by an inexperienced, or no-name director, it has sucked: Sleepwalkers, Langoliers, Tommyknockers, Maximum Overdrive (directed by King himself), IT (please, no one defend this trash). Now, think about the antithesis: Stand By Me, Christine, Carrie, Shawshank, Shining, Misery, Pet Semetary, and now Green Mile...guys like Coppola, Riener, Darabont, Carpenter...they are all outstanding storytellers and brought some of the most classic King stories to true, vibrant life.
Now, apply this to the history of Comic Book adapations. Maybe some of you are bigger geeks than me, but I cannot name who directed the Fantastic Four or Punisher or Captain America...but I saw them all, and they blew. However, I know Brian Singer, and I know the X-Men...see my point?
So with this theory in tow, I am now able to intake all the trash many of you are throwing at the X-Men, process it, and dispose of it on the other end, right where it belongs.
Snoogins. -
Interesting. Very interesting. I'm glad to see that some slight improvements have occurred since those photos of the ruby visor kicked around *shudder*. I also am torn between rolling in rapture over this massive influx of news, or quivering with paranoia over the speed at which it was disgorged. The Spidey Incident is barely over, and suddenly the reassurances start to fly about X-Men? Harry flies himself to LA _the next day_ to _see for himself_ photos of the costumes? Harry himself _deigns to descend to the talkbacks_ and refute people questioning the rapidity of the response? Ahh, it's a paranoiac's dream. After all, studio's surely don't appreciate folks pre-emptively obliterating their films on the internet, so assuaging the fears of many with a massive influx media info would fit into a sell-out vision with a resounding 'click'. However, Harry certain seems legitimately interested in the outcome of these various films, and he didn't pull any punches with his (albeit incorrect) Spidey update and editorial. The fact that these are two Marvel films also removes any concerns that he'd play one studio/company against another. In the end, you'll have to decide for yourself whether or not you think Harry tracked down the X-men info independently out of honest concern for the film, or as the result of monetary persuasion and corporate penance for blasting Spidey. Red pill? Blue pill? However, in either event one sees the effect the almost unanimous firestorm that engulfed Spidey on AICN has had. Some fun.
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Thanks harry for the info. I guess I'm still a little pissed that Nightcrawler isn't in it..but oh well.
And Uncle Charley..hell is mentioned in the NT all over the place. It's not just a middle ages concept. Please get your facts correct. And if you don't believe in it..then you have nothing to worry about..right? -
Hi! This is my first time on "TalkBack" so bear with me. I've been coming to this site for about 3 months now, and I really like it. Sure it's a rumor mill, but Harry seems to go out of his way to check up on the "reliability" of the source or the rumor itself. That's more then most sites do. Amd when he's wrong he admits it ( i.e. The Spidey rumor)! That's more then most people on the web or in "real" life do. About this item on the X-Men movie... I thought it was good. You have to remember that Harry's opinion on the costumes is just that...his OPINION. Everyone has one and Harry gave his. As to those calling Harry a "sellout", or implying it...the man has a track record. Look at it as a whole, not just a few instances where you "think" things might look a little funny. Of course, if there are more and more "instances " that become the norm, then call it what it is and don't return to a site you can no longer trust. Later! "All of these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
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I kind of agree with you, but you've got a chicken-or-the-egg thing going on here. You forget, Frank Darabont WAS a "no-name" before Shawshank. The only movie he'd directed before that was a cable movie(?) called "Buried Alive" - and he'd written some stuff, like "The Fly II." Oh, and Rob Reiner wasn't exactly A-list before "Stand By Me," either. I think a better correlary might be: bad filmmaker = bad film; good filmmaker = good film. Bad filmmakers are of course more likely to be "no-names" than good filmmakers. Although, as we all know, that's not a cardinal rule.
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Leave Harry alone...A portion of you are never happy...no x-men info wah....x men info wah it's tainted by the studio's hand...who cares...unless it's a review...these were just descriptions...and yeah Harry gave his opinion on what he thought...so we all have opinions and since they are descriptions we can piece together whether or not WE like them...now at least we have a more reliable report on what they look like....and big deal if he has a friend on the lot who threw his name on the list...did none of you ever have your parents help you with your homework...
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Who cares whether he's invited to the set or not? Does anyone actually FOLLOW Harry's opinions? Do you people actually rely on AIN'T IT COOL to determine whether you GO to a particular movie? What difference does it make if it's studio hype or genuine Harry hype? THE WILD WILD WEST sucks no matter whose opinion you listen to. This site mirrors the entire Internet: a mixture of shit, rumor, fact, and senseless opinions! God bless you, Harry!!
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I thought that the whole thing that would keep X-Men grounded in reality was the fact that the X-men would be referred to by their names, i.e. Scott, Jean, Ororo, etc. The fact that there are superbeings should be a new phenomenon(phenomena?) because that is what scares people about them, the fact that they have these powers and they look weird. To keep the costumes toned down keeps it real. By the way the CGI for Iceman and Colossus would just be too expensive. The Cyclops glasses look plastic.
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End of Days got me back in the talk back route and you people are just making me want to leave again. I love X-Men. Yes that's right. I had a subscription for three years, watched every episode then when all my friends denounced them as moronic I quit. Fastforward: five years later. Being the avid AICN fan I am I see Harry mention Usual Suspects as being an incredible film. I rent it. I pick up X-Men again. Why? If Bryan Singer, an incredibly kickass director, can devote two years of his life to a film version of the beloved comic book then dangit I can start reading the issues again without being embarassed. Singer is so on the ball it isn't funny. The costumes work on the printed page but on film no one wants to walk out of the film hearing that ass next to you saying "I hate those dang underwear costumes!" We can appreciate them because of our love for the books, the average viewer cannot. So give them a chance. And anyone interested in pitching in their two cents to the Sony Spider-Man petition page write me at bobthetomato@dansjp3page.com Bob the Tomato (Spielberg-DreamWorks.con)
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Dec 03, 1999 12:49:16 PM CST
Must read!! Could change the realm of cinema as we know it!!
by larry cucumber
All talkbackers who would like to contribute to the Spider-Man cast and crew wish list site just e-mail me at bobthetomato@dansjp3page.com. We all know John Woo is the first choice for director but who else? Bob the Tomato (Spielberg-DreamWorks.com)
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You can say it as much as you want, that doesn't mean it will keep you from sounding like an idiot. The costumes, the universe, the characters-they don't have to be totally believable, BUT they have to be taken seriously. Face it, a guy running around in blue and yellow spandex is not going to look tough or serious. Setting it in the Marvel Universe will not solve anything because the audience is in the real world, they chose what to think, and they would say, "That guy looks like a retard." People have to respect the characters. "Burton managed to do it." Hey, guess what??? HE CHANGED THE COSTUMES, TOO!!! Sorry if it sounds like I'm tearing into you, but I get sick and tired of whiny little posters saying, "Why did they change the costumes?".
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While I am looking forward to seeing the costumes as much as the next guy, I know that in order to look good on film, brightly colored spandex doesn't cut it. I knew from the beginning that they would either go with a techno-Matrix look or something more military feeling. What's important is that the characters are true to the comic books. Also, with regards to Sabretooth in a suit, look at either issue 5 or 6 of the Jim Lee X-Men books for an example of that.
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The costumes sound better than before. Perhaps they're a tad MATRIX-y, but still distinct, not "street clothes."
Oh, and Harry, cut down on the ellipses next time. The piece looked like a Larry King column. -
You know, people tend to throw out the term 'sell out' when the things they knew way back when, have gotten popular and, in turn, successful. As an example, I knew the Smashing Pumpkins way back before they got big. Once they hit the big time, the fans in Chicago claimed that they had 'sold out' when in reality, what the pumpkins were doing hadn't changed all that much.
How does this apply to Harry?
My guess, the studios have realized the power of this web site, and are trying to cater to it. When a person now reads a review that they don't agree with, or a report that sounds a bit like proproganda from a studio, they state that Harry has 'Sold out'. But you know, I can remember a lot of things on this site (pre-fame) that I didn't agree with, and an awful lot of others that I did. The reality of the situation is that only Harry can answer the question if he has sold out or not (I don't believe he has, but who am I?). People who throw out the term 'Sell out' generally have no idea what they are talking about. -
You have become exactly what you despise, a "yes" man for the studios. When bad press hits your site, they fly you out to tell the masses that everything is just fine. You have lose your credibility, and worse than that, you have lost your ability to decipher good from bad.
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matriX-men!
Heh-heh heh. That's cool. -
Harry, fuck all the critics and naysayers of you that always have to criticize you in every talk back. The need to go and make their own fucking site. Warrior, i'm sick of you saying the same shit over and over again every day. Guess what, I won't be seeing you in hell.(dumbass, for even thinking hell is cool.)
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The thing about black costumes......what makes black work so well in Batman, is black fits the mood of the movie, its a dark film, its black by nature. Plus, that black costume won't really look too good in the light. So I'm wondering why these costumes have to be black. It seems like such a dead color. Why not really dark blue, especially for cyclops? All these darker colors seem to suggest a film that is dark in tone. That's not really the X-Men. And I was just imagining how these black leather outfits would look during a fight scene in broad daylight...black is good for night, not day.
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OK you clowns, time to stop yer bitchin'! Have any of you actually read the X-MEN comics? These guys go through costumes like Santa goes through cookies! What version do you want? I mean Cyclops, Storm, and Jean Grey have had so many DIFFERENT versions of their outfits it's hard to keep track! Do I want Jim Lee Cyclops or Jack Kirby Cyclops? Gee, should Storm have a mohawk or a bob or long hair? What are all you X-babies crying about? Of course the outfits are going to change you dipshits, IT'S A MOVIE! Yea, I for one would LOVE to see Wolverine running around in an ugly ass blue and yellow costume that his momma made him (not!)! Details have to be changed! You think the best way to fight crime is to wear a big cowl on your head with a big flowing cape a la Batman? I don't think so! This is fantasy! What you should be hoping that they keep the flavor of is the SPIRIT of the characters and the comic! C'mon! Do you actually believe that some dude in blue tights and a red cape (no matter how buff he is and if he can punch through walls) is going to be INTIMIDATING!!?? Comics and movies are two completely different mediums. Stuff that looks good on paper may look completely MORONIC on screen! YOU NEED TO ACCEPT THIS! Personally, I'd think that you guys would be more pissed at the ridiculous casting of the picture. Talk about pissing on the spirit of the X-Men! Famke Jaansen as Jean Grey!? It should have been ALICIA WITT! Talk about a dead ringer! And as far as Rogue goes, seems to me she shoulda just been called Jubilee! That's what it seems they're goin' for in the movie! Oh, and as far as the costumes being Matrixy, have anyone of you looke at a MUSIC VIDEO in the past tem years? The Matrix's look was completely culled from video and comic book/fantasy art of the past TEN YEARS!!! GET OVER IT!!! Anyone who didn't see the Matrix and go, "Wow, I guess that's what the X-Men will be like!" is an IDIOT! The Matrix ripped off comic book (just like your beloved BUFFY) so the X-Men will 'rip off' the Matrix! All of you need to get a BRAIN!
NUFF 'SAID!!!!!!! -
They didn't wear "costumes" in the Matrix, long black leather coats are not "techno" nor are they original. They do look badass, though. But just because another movie has characters wearing BLACK, it doesn't mean they're ripping off the Matrix!! Batman wore a BLACK COSTUME, does that mean they're ripping him off? Maybe black was the only color they could find that would've worked well together. By the way, the previous poster mentioned a reference to Rob Leifeld...whatever happened to those Image guys anyway, I've fallen out of comics pretty much. I heard Jim Lee, the only guy really worth giving a damn about, headed to DC, which is dominatin' now...
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First, I agree that we all need to let up on Harry. I'm certain that his heart cannot take too much stress due to his *ahem* "big-boned" nature. But seriously, it was a good point someone made that after bashing one WB project it would be odd for him to jump in bed with them on another. (Unless they're crazy...crazy like a fox) Seriously, I think Harry tries his damndest to maintian objectivity and like all of us, succeeds some of the time and fails some of the time. Niiiice, I agree that the trench-coats were definitely NOT costumes, but I think what all the drooling, hormonal fanboys refer to as a costume in that movie was the tight, black, latex-leather outfit of the female lead....mmmmmmm....I need some time alone now...
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These people could be wearing garbage bags, for all I care, as long as the script is good, the effects not overwhelming and the acting...well, as good as it can get (Sorry...it's Stamos...I keep seeing House of Style and Just Shoot Me in my mind, hope that changes).
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Ok, sorry about that, heres what I was gonna say.....X-MEN: I think these costumes will make the movie a little more serious in tone, which is a welcome change from The Talentless Mr. Schumacher. Now, I haven't read the X-men in a long time, and even then I didnt't read them too often, so I'll see this movie either way, I just hope it will be good.....The Matrix: It was entertaining, the Wachowskis (sp?) definately have potential, but one movie doesn't do it for me. Check out the Spiderman posts, why does everyone suggest the Wachowskis or Fincher for every movie that comes along? Anyway, the Matrix's costumes (actually "outfits") were not original. I've always thought black trenchcoats looked cool (usually on villians though). I just have a question. Why is the Matrix the only movie I know where all the guys I know get all giddy about it? I'm a guy, I love action and sci-fi, but the people I know get an orgasmic pleasure from watching it. They can't sit still in their seats. They say its the best film of the decade and one of the best ever made. What's the big deal? Am I missing something?
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I wish Cyclops' brother Havok were in this movie. He was so underused in the comic. His costume would be easy to do onscreen and his powers could lead to some cool FX.
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Harry, question.....Patrick at CA posted an update that states, among other things A) Rouge does NOT have the white streak in her hair and, most importantly, B)Wolverine DOES NOT HAVE THE COMIC BOOK HAIR! so....WHAT THE FUCK!!! and can you bag some photos? Which one of y'all is being spoon fed chaff by the stuido, and which one is getting the real deal on 'da scoops? Is the truth here, or out there? (God, that's horrible..sorry!!!!)
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....Wolvie's hair is "slicked back and has slight sunburns"...as per Coming Attractions Corona, earlier today
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I would suggest you pay more attention to what you're reading. . . Okay - can anyone name me the two most successful movies based on comic book characters? Superman and Batman. Superman - they didn't change his costume one bit. Batman - "Hey, guess what" - you're wrong, Garbage Man! The changes made to that costume were so negligible as to almost be funny. The Burton Batman's costume design was in fact IDENTICAL to the comic, they only adjusted the colors from grey and blue to all black. Please don't argue that the costume was "armor and not spandex," I never said I wanted to see spandex. The point is that the design of the outfit was identical, down to the yellow and black bat-symbol, pointy ears, and the three "spikes" coming out of the gloves. Burton had enough respect for the character not to change the costume at all. If you expend the effort to read my post again, you'll see that what I was saying was that when they set the movies in the "real" world, they HAVE to change the costumes because otherwise it would look ridiculous. I even agree with adjusting the costumes for more realism no matter where the movie is set (like Burton did). My argument is that these movies DON'T HAVE TO BE SET IN OUR WORLD, just as Burton's wasn't. You wrote "the audience is in the real world, they chose what to think, and they would say, 'That guy looks like a retard.'" Audiences seemed to accept Batman - pointy ears, utility belt, black eye makeup, etc., without thinking he looked too much like a "retard." I'll direct you back to my original post - I never called for a 100% faithfull recreation of the comic costumes, and I never have. I want to see a Marvel movie set in the Marvel Universe, and when a director finally gets it the same way Burton did with Batman, then we'll all finally get a Marvel superhero movie that pays homage to our favorite characters and doesn't disgrace them. I sincerely hope Singer's X-Men will do this, and much like Harry, I'll reserve final judgement until I see it.
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Here's the dilemma: If you decide to make a movie based on a comic book, you have to either "alter" the concepts so that they seem believable to movie audiences, or else--and this is the tough part that RARELY is accomplished--you have to create a world and a TONE for the film that allows silly, colorful costumes to SEEM believable. It's a question of the ol' Richard Donner trick of verisimilitude (which worked pretty well in the first and second SUPERMAN films). Now, a guy like Tim Burton--for some inexplicable reason (well, mainly because he feels the need to be "creative")--Burton did both: he set BATMAN in a weird world where Batman seemed to make sense...but for some dopey reason he ALSO felt the need to change the costumes (a big mistake, to me). THE X-MEN (well, and even SPIDER-MAN) are a real problem because those costumes are just stupid IN ANY WORLD THAT RESEMBLES THE REAL WORLD. See, this is why so many comic book movies turn out "campy"...the material requires a certain "arch" tone to skew the reality a bit, but most writers and directors go over the top. Or else you end up with a dick like Albert Pyun (who directed CAPTAIN AMERICA)who just completely jetisons the costume for most of the flick. In my opinion (have you all had enough of 'em yet?)if you make a comic book into a film YOU HAVE TO KEEP THE COSTUMES AND CONCEPT TRUE TO THE SOURCE. Otherwise, go produce something like Disney's CONDORMAN and fuck off!
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Pop that ass Harry. These ho's are all gonna be a the X Follies when it opens, just
like they all will see Grinch. We'll take the good with the bullshit Harry, these punks would soil
their Garanimals if they got to go to a movie set.
Please, don't sleep your way to the top man, keep it real. -
What the f**k? Do these guys get it? Comics and uperheroes are popular because of what the they are and that includes the costumes and everything else that goes with the title. Why even make a movie based on a comic book if your just going to change everything. They might as well call it something and not sully the name. I have waited over 10 years for this movie and now they have the nerve to throw out the things I love about the X men. I live for comic book adaptations but, this has got to be one of the biggest continual fuck-ups the studios make. Just think of Judge dredd. Was that even a judge dredd movie? One of the main things about that character was that he never took off his helmet. I think Stalone wore that helmet for about 10 minutes and then the was no longer a Judge Dred film. I spoke with the screen writer before it came out and he straight up lied that stalone wore the helmet through most of the film. This kind of crap pisses me off badly. It's completley disrespectful of the fans who wait sometimes for years to see their favorite comic books come to life. Do any of these filmmakers have any kind of loyalty much less a clue as to why people want to see these worlds "recreated" on film? Anyhow they need to switch gears and make the films we want. Not the films they want.
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And when I say they should remain true, I mean remain true to the *spirit* of the source. Obviously a direct translation will come across as a little silly-looking. Would Cyclops look goofy in yellow undies? Probably, so remove 'em, but keep the indigo blue outfit and keep the yellow gloves. Alter 'em a bit if necessary to translate to screen, but stop short of redesigning them wholly. It's okay if they're a little colorful - they're superheroes. Audiences will accept and understand this, because the characters will be flying, shooting beams from their eyes, growing metal claws, etc. THEY ARE SUPERHEROES. ***** Somebody said they won't be intimidating in gaudy costumes - sure they will. Know why? 'Cause they have kick-ass powers to back the look. Hey, these guys aren't Batman, they aren't stalking criminals by night seeking to strike terror into their hearts. The X-Men are adventurers, even soldiers to a certain extent. Look at the uniforms of soldiers throughout the ages and you'll see some brightly colored costumes that people most certainly *did not* laugh at. Costumes can work just fine if you open up your mind a little. ***** Now, obviously the costumes have already been altered quite a bit, and in general, I don't like what I'm hearing about 'em. They won't ruin the film if it has a strong story and strong characters, but I think I'll be disappointed that Singer didn't have a little more faith in the source material. I await the first preview to make a full assessment (well, the first preview that's not attached to Bicentennial Man).
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Hey, Harry would be perfect for Sabretooth. As a matter of fact, I think he realizes this and is going after the current guy so he can have the role. You sly BASTARD! Anyway, I like the idea of Matrix-style costumes for this movie. Superhero costumes just don't translate well on the big screen, and Matrix actually pulled off the same effect while not being corny. I can really see the X-Men in these costumes. Of course, I still am angered by a lot of the casting (Why not Sinise as Wolvie? Why a frickin' model (Stamos) with no acting experience as a villian? Umm, Famke Janssen....oh, sorry), but I actually think this might be a sort of cool movie in that fun, silly, badass sort of way (a la True Lies). Of course, I reaffirm my thanks to whatever all-powerful force there is in this universe that this movie, Praise be, will have NO IDIOTIC NEON LIGHTING. Thank you, thank you, thank you, and Joel Schumacher..........may you burn in St. Elmo's Fire for all eternity.
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I concede Darabont is/was a fine and respected writer. But he wasn't A-list, nor was he a well-known director, before Shawshank. Hence my no-brainer thesis: good filmmaker = good film. Wait - weren't we talking about X-Men?
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We finally get a GOOD description of the X-costumes and set and what do you do. YOU PISS AND MOAN like the first bit of info out was gospel from God's lips even though that was said to be wrong or very misleading. And sbout this MATRIX-y crap. Ever seen a movie called Blade Runner. Using Matrix as references is just a way of making it easier for every one to visualize what they will look like without totally blowing it. Body armour has a distinctive look, it has to be form fitting or you can't move and ofcorse it will most black, even I don't want to imagine the X-costumes true to from, it's TERRIFYING. As long as they have some good desing and the X on them I'm happy as an Irish preacher on Monday. Thanks for the BEST description of the suits and you have my sympathies when it comes to numbnuts like Warrior (rope it in dude). This is one of THE BEST bits of info to come down the pipe you lucky dog. Now I'm just waiting for Nov 17 to roll around.
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Dec 03, 1999 7:03:37 PM CST
I WROTE A LITTLE SONG ABOUT THE STUDIO EXECS AND HOW THE RUINED
by pharcyde
I CUM BLOOD
Swollen with liquid
Ready to burst
A load of my lymph
Will quench this dead body's thirst
One month in the grave
twisted and half decayed
She turned a putrid yellow
I pissed in her maggot filled asshole
Fucking the rotting
My semen is bleeding
The smell of decay
Seeps from her genital cavity
The smell was unbearable As I unburied her
I cum blood from my erection
I feel it run
down her throat, swallow
Eyes glassy and vacant
body dug up to play with
Skin greasy and naked
tounguing her rotted anus
I need a live woman
to fill with my fluid
A delicate girl, to mutilate, fuck and kill
her body exceptional
she thought I was normal
but I wanted more
I came blood inside of her
chocking on the clot
gagging on the snot
gushing blood, from her mouth
bloody gel leaking out
Body buried in a shallow grave
Unmarked for none to find
The sickness I have left behind
Undetected go my crimes
The greatest thrill of my life
Violent, climax Serging serum
on my skin
Back from the dead
I am resurrected
to spew, putrefaction
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Where to start?...Ok, it's time we prepare for the Post-Matrix era, where all cinema hero's wear tight, black leather(esque) outfits! This is going to get REAL old folks, I thought The Matrix was fantastic, and I also know that many films to come will try to emulate elements of The Matrix...whether it be costumes, effects or whatever. But really, have we not seen enough darkly clad superheroes...Batman, The Crow, Blade, Spawn (more or les) hell, even Supes almost got the black tights with the now defunct movie. I want to see COLOR! You can redisign if you like, but for cryin' out loud, be more friggin' original!!! I'm not saying that this will make the movie bad, certainly I can't wait to see the first bit's of footage, or even photo's of the cast...but, if you are going to do an X-Men flick, but eliminate any recognizable outfit, what hope do we have that the same will not be done to the characters, the story or the environment it takes place? None! How many times do we build up expectations for a 'real' superhero movie, and are ALWAYS disapointed more or less? Best bet, don't look forward to seeing anything great, MAYBE we will be surprised...and on a completely different note, look for some INCREDIBLE McFarlane toy's Movie Maniacs figures late next summer, Edward Scissorhands, Ash (Evil Dead), The Fly and Snake Plisken!
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Not everyone who wants to watch or will watch this movie is a fan of the comic book. I want to see it and I have no experience whatsoever with the comic book (and that goes for Spiderman, too.). I did watch the cartoon series as a kid and played the video game (as Dazzle every single time) at the local arcade every chance I got (because it was a cool game, dammit!). I'm just trying to say that maybe the producers/directors/costume people are trying to make a movie that will appeal with a general audience. Aren't the most important things about X-men the overall theme of prejudice in society and the characters themselves? The costumes of the comics worked for the comics because...they are comics. They're flashy and colorful and don't destract from the characters in the comics because you're familiar with them. General audiences are not and the costumes, while it would be cool to keep them like in the comics (or for me, the game and the cartoon series), would distract viewers from the characters and the message of the movie. *takes a deep breath and waits for some of the more rabid fanboys to attack*
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I wouldn't be surprised if toys had a big part in a lot of the production design. Kinda like the Batmobile changing every goddamn Batman movie until it was a neon gay-pride-mobile. From what Harry has said, he doesn't sound incredibly enthusiastic about about any of the costumes and to me that is a bad thing. I'll just have to wait until I see for myself. I hope the action figures are GOOD, and not the bullshit toys I see in Toys R Us now.I swear, is it so hard to make a GOOD WOLVERINE ACTION FIGURE???
Get Mcfarlane toys on the job.
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I've made this point with regard to prvevious articles, and many others have said it before me... comic book costumes DON'T WORK on screen. Many posters have tried to refute this point by saying Superman worked, and Batman worked. Well, Sorry folks, but superman's costume worked ONLY because it's a national icon. He's recognizable by people two years old and eighty years old, so it's a MUST to use it in any movie about Superman. Look at it objectively though, and Chris looked a bit silly in it.
And the Batman costume was changed significantly. It went from grey spandex and blue underwear to BLACK leather or pleather. No underwear showing, heavy, armor-like look. Sounds a bit like matrix.
I can't say I'm terribly impressed by the costumes, but I am intrigued enough to give it a chance. As to the Claims that Harry has "Sold out" by posting this, just how damn favorable do you people think it was. The costumes "didn't suck"?!? That's the praise you think Harry was flown out to L.A. and allegedly bribed to give?!?!? Christ, go out in the daylight people, bring your minds back into touch with the real world.
Peace through random violence.
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GET A LIFE!! WHAT DOES THAT CRAP YOU CALL LYRICS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH X-MEN?? (TO EVERYONE ELSE) THANKS HARRY FOR A GOOD DESCRIPTION OF THE COSTUMES...I AGREE THEY DO NEED TO CHANGE A LITTLE FOR THE BIG SCREEN AND IT SEEMS LIKE THE STUDIO MADE SOME DESCENT CHOICES, BUT I AM KINDA SURPRISED THEY DIDN'T KEEP ROGUES SIGNATURE WHITE LOCK OF HAIR ( A LITTLE HAIR DYE WOULD MAKE WHATEVER COSTUME THEY PICK FIT). THANKS FOR THE INFO HARRY. I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS WHEATHER YOU ARE A 'SELL OUT' OR NOT, AT LEAST WE HAVE SOME FORUM TO FIND OUT NEW TIDBITS ON COOL FILMS. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.
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Oh, one more thing. Agentcole, shut the fuck up about Mulholland Drive. Unless you have Harry on salary, he'll post whatever the hell he feels like posting. If you feel that strongly about, open your own fucking site, but spare us your whining pleas.
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Let me ask all you pro-costume tards something...
Would you rather see the X-Men realized as something tangible and semi-realistic or as some ridiculous disney-spectrum group of misfits that look like they belong advertised on the side of a fuckin' McD's Happy Meal?!? Think about it!!! -
I really don't understand what the deal is with many of these attacks on the X-Men movie, particularly the gripes about costume changes. I could understand if they were trying to change the costumes of such icons as Superman, Spiderman, Batman, or Captain America. These characters costumes has remained essentially unchanged for the vast majority of their careers and is directly tied with their identity in the general public. Even then, the changes Burton made to Batman's costume made it work for film.
The X-Men, on the other hand, are another matter entirely. Individually, the only X-Man who might possibly qualify as an icon is Wolverine. Also, the costumes for the X-Men have never been definitive. Characters like Cyclops, Jean Grey, and Storm have each had at least five in continuity costume changes over the years. If they change their costumes in the books, why can't they change them for the movie? There is no reason why they shouldn't come up with their own costume designs to improve the character's appearance for film. I don't think the filmmakers should have to design the movie to fit the way the X-Men are done this very moment. That changes all the time.
I care about a strong plot, good script and great direction. I care about mindblowing FX. I care about maintaining the general themes and basic characterization that serve as the foundations for the comic book. I could care less if Rouge has a white streak in her hair or if Cyclops' visor is yellow. Catch my drift.
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..just wait until the trailer comes out.
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Dec 03, 1999 9:03:37 PM CST
"Those are the grunka-lunkas." "Tell them I hate them."
by the garbage man
I read your post many times, in fact. Maybe you should take a look at all of mine before you shoot off at the mouth. And try making more sense when you direct posts at me, because it seems that if the Batman costume was "IDENTICAL", as you say, then they would not have "adjusted the colors from grey and blue to all black", basically all that remains the same is the basic outline shape of the costume. It doesn't matter if you wanted to see spandex, it simply isn't the same. The point I was trying to make, if you had bothered to pay attention, is that, even though the adjustments are sometimes minor, they are very necessary. The other look simply wouldn't have worked. It doesn't matter if it is set in the Marvel Universe, X-Men is also in New York. When the people see New York, and the X-men's funny costumes, it simply wont work. And don't say, "Well, they should set it somewhere else then." If they had done that, fan-boys would whine that it isn't true to the comic. I didn't think of Superman, but know that you've mentioned it, let's go ahead. IMHO, Superman's costume worked because of the time the movie came out. Now, people are hung up on "hardcore" and "bad-ass". Movies change with the times. And to counter, Captain America's costume was very faithful to the comic, but then again, so was the Flash's. Each character is different, so different things will do well in their movies. Another thing - I was talking about the Marvel Universe, where the audience would say he looks like a retard. Most didn't say that about Batman because he didn't wear bright, fruity spandex. You seemed to totally lose the point during the "Real World vs. Marvel Universe" part, so I will make it simple. The audience (for the most part) is in the real world and at least partially anchored in reality. When they saw Blade Runner, it was the future, and they could say, maybe that will happen in the future. The Marvel Universe, however, tries to be mostly the same while changing important things. I've said it, and many a talk-backer has said it, but I'll say it again: a guy in a blue and yellow suit will not get respect. Batman was able to do it because he was in black and had semi-realistic backstory that most of us can relate to (losing a loved one resulting in grief & anger). Superman could do it because, like I said, it was a different time. Imagine, if you will, an X-Men movie with costumes like the comic, maybe even changed a micron or two. Imagine them fighting it out in all their spandex-clad 4-color world glory. Now, tell me that movie will do well. Finally, I sincerely apologize if it sounded like I was attacking you personally. I do not want this to turn into a mud-slinging, name-calling, playground-esque fight.
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I assume that last post was directed at me. However, I disagree that I failed to read your post carefully. You certainly acknowledged that the costume for Batman was changed. My point is that it was changed far more and for different reasons than you suggest. It wasn't just changed from blue and grey to black. It was changed in function, becoming body armor, in style: Leathery plasticy, that is, ultra-modern. the tights look was gone completely. Yes, they did maintain the cowl, cape and spikes, but this is because these aspects work on film. Moreover, the fact that it was set in a fictional, comic-booky Gotham did not change the fact that they had to MAKE THE COSTUME WORK ON SCREEN. The X-men costumes, and previous posters have pointed out the wide variety of costumes the x-men have had, simply won't work, even modified. The best they could have done would have been to put everyone in different colored leather jackets and bodysuits. But why? The original x-men had uniforms, not costumes, and they were all identical. Why focus on the differences in the x-men in a film that shows them being brought together? What is so essential about X-MEN COSTUMES. They change with the times and the mood of the team. Let the producer/director set the mood.
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Oh, and to those who say the costumes won't translate, I say you have no imagination. A good costume designer can find a compromise between garish comic-book costuming and what looks good on screen, and it doesn't have to always involve friggin' darkening the original! It worked reasonably well for Batman, but it's not the *only* choice. I say again: audiences will accept superhero costumes because of the context. When Storm casts bolts of lightning, when Cyclops fires optic blasts, when Phoenix lifts a truck with her telekinesis...they will accept their costumes. Listen, mainstream audiences may not read superhero comics any more, but they are *aware* of them and probably read 'em as kids. They can accept costumes. Vivid costumes are *part* of the damn genre. That's why they're important.
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Nothing really, but The Warriors was on last night on Bravo and I just had to say it. That movie is fucked up. If I saw that droogie gang or the Yankee gang in real I would laugh my ass off, before getting capped probably. Of course, you may have no idea what I'm talking about and may have taken your name from that 80's song by... God what was that chics name, she was a Benatar clone but pretty badass in her own right. Oh well, doesn't matter. I AM THE WARRIOR.
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Dec 03, 1999 9:58:16 PM CST
Secret revealed as to why people prefer costumes the way they ar
by niiiice
Familiarity. When you do a movie adaptation of anything, you ARE "adapting" it, meaning some change are necessary to make the transition smoother. But there are two things you need to make a comic adaptation succesful: make it appetizing enough to entice new viewers while at the same time staying true enough to form as to not piss of the regulars. I guess "true enough" is where most people are having problems. Of course people want to see Rogue with a white streak in her hair, they want to see wolvie with his trademark "swipes" or whatever the hell you call his hair. Why? Cause thats what familiar, for those who read the comic these are the things that make the characters who they are! So it shouldn't utterly confound someone who comes in and can't understand why someone would go so ballistic as to the changes in the costumes. Now, upon closer thought, Rogue would look like a freakin skunkhead or something with the white streak, and Wolvie, well I still think he would look kind of cool but with that kind of hair the retard possibility meter rings pretty high. I think what these guys on the X-men production are trying to do is restrain X-men by the real world, making it more realistic. I personally don't see the point in this, because super powers are pretty damned unrealistic anyway, but oh well. I think Cormonora (sp? sorry man) was the one who posted the costumes should be true to the SPIRIT of the comic. I couldn't agree more. Make the necessary changes, but remember who you're dealing with. These are the X-Men, not X-Force, I don't see the X-Men as needing Matrix-y costumes because that would ooze a fair amount of "bad-assness" and I don't really think the X-Men want themselves to come across as a badass team of guys. Okay, so don't dismiss this post as another whiny, bitchin' post, even though I do think those have merit, at least I tried to defend my position.
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Changing it to a "body armor" style was probably the best thing they did, because spandex just looks gay. I think alot of people would agree that the X-Men should go through the same treatment However, besides color variations, the film costume is pretty much akin to the comic version. He still has the bat-sign and the two pointy things on his head right? They made NO major alterations to the MAJOR PHYSICAL DISTINCTIONS of the costume. With X-Men, this is not the case. Each of the X-costume has its on physically distinctive look and feel to it, and it boggles my mind that anyone can beleive a talented costume designer wouldn't be able to translate these costumes to film while maintaing the same physical characteristics (I don't mean color). In my opinion, they were just lazy or didn't even give a damn, which is fine because its their vision of the X-Men. Just that it doesn't jive with the fact that I beleive to be a successful (aside from box-office) adaptation, you have to maintain a certain degree of similarity with the comic. What they're doing to the X-Men costume would be very much akin to cladding Batman in a leather Jacket, taking away the two pointy "bat-ears" and things to that effect. Agree? On the other hand, the X-Men do go through so many transitions, and their costumes change ALOT from writer to writer and artist to artist, so you can see this as just another transition.
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The X-Men have indeed gone through many costume changes, but at the very last, couldn't we probably say that the costumes that have lasted longest would be the definitive ones? For the most part, that means the costumes from the Claremont era. That's my preference, of course, since that's the only era I think was really strong (say, issues #94-200). And, y'know, even when changes have been made, colors and motifs often remain. Cyclops usually wear a blue and yellow costume. Storm is usually in something silver and black with a cape. Wolverine always has that pointy mask and those pointy shoulders. Rogue, though admitedly she's never had a definitive costume, is usually in green (one thing I like about the costumes Harry described is the hood for Rogue, a throwback to her first appearances). Point is, there is enough comonality, even with team's many costume changes, to create recognizable costumes for a movie. I don't think they need to be wholly unified either, even though the movie will be showing the group's formation. Yeah, the costume designer needs to bring some sense of unity to them (similar gloves, an "X" design on the chests, whatever), but the X-Men are a pretty oddball group - their costumes don't have to match. As everyone knows, the series really hit its stride when Claremont signed on and Dave Cockrum gave everyone vastly different costumes.
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Actually, I was talking to moviet001, not you.
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Qatseri, from your reply, I probably would have agreed with you. After I posted I realized that the post wasnt directed at anyone... my bad.
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Heh, my bad too. That's what I get for having an ego. :) As to the previous few posters, I was commenting on Harry's observations, not the stuff over at Corona. I agree that Wolvie should have his distinctive cut and rogue MUST have the white streak, just as Jean Grey must be a red-head and cyclops and Magneto the helmet. I am distressed that Magneto's helmet has been changed. However, as to the costumes themselves, I still haven't read a reason why the costumes are necessary for broad appeal. Unlike Batman and Supes, the X-man are not particularly iconic beyond the ranks of comic fans. Their costumes are not designed prey on the cowardly minds of criminals or represent their commitment to the American way. They wear costumes in comics simply because they are in comics. Not however the trend towards more street clothy costumes. Gambit's overcoat, Storms progression from bathing suit to leather Jumper, Cyclop's addition of the jacket, Marvel Girl's more matrixy (if colorful) outfit, the trend towards portraying Wolverine in his leather jacket and jeans as much as his costume.
The fact is, to appeal to a broad audience, the characters cannot be "True" to their roots. The sorts of costumes worn in comics will generally engender only confusion and contempt in an audience that has never seen them before and who find no "recognition" value. Sure, I would love to see the characters in non-skintight but generally similar versions of their costumes. The mass audience could care less. I certainly do not find the wishes of so many posters invalid or wrong, I just think you have to look at it from the point of view of producers who are trying to appeal to the mass market, not to a niche group of viewers. Now, flame away.
Peace through random violence. (See Seattle for details).
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Dec 03, 1999 11:44:22 PM CST
Harry on why he hasn't done anything with Lynch series!
by harry knowles
BECAUSE IT'S TELEVISION!!!! I do MOVIES.... THose things that get PROJECTED in MOVIE THEATERS... Not on the wee little illuminated box. SO... If you want to start a campaign... Send it to EL COSMICO.... To the bloke that sent me those emails... I forwarded them (as I do all TV related stuff to Glen (when he was running it) and to El Cosmico (now that he is running it) But it is THEIR territory... not mine. Church and State, saavy... Separation of Powers, etc...
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One of the earlies rumors about the X-Men movie was that Glenn Danzig was gonna play Wolverine. He would've been perfect, man! He'd have to change his hair some; besides, he fits the role better than some skinny Australian guy. Maybe if he didn't release "Blackacidevel" he'd still have the part. Marvel should just quit production right now and put all effort into making an animated feature-film for theatrical release; there's no way a live action film could be made that would satisfy fans. Besides, the best Batman movie was "Mask of the Phantasm"; maybe the same would work for the X-Men . . .
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Hey there, Qatseri. I'm wondering why you're so sure that audiences will scoff at traditional comic book-style costumes? To be honest, with the exception of Superman, most superhero movies really haven't attempted to depict traditional superhero costumes - how then can we gauge whether mass audiences will accept them or not? I tend to think that audiences *will* buy into 'em now that special effects have reached a point where superheroes can really do superhero-y kinds of stuff, like throwing cars, knocking down buildings with lasers, making fifty-foot leaps, etc. We're at a unique point in movie history where effects can lend a lot of credibility to the wilder elements of superhero comics. This is the perfect time for a comic book movie to be quite faithful to its source material. Why are the costumes necessary? To separate the X-Men and Spider-Man from borderline superhero stuff like Blade and The Matrix. Those movies are all well and good, but they don't capture superheroics on the order of Marvel's best comics. For that, you need adventurers with *big* powers and with over-the-top costumes. As I said before, I think even mainstream action movie audiences are familiar enough with comics to accept the convention of costumes with little to no confusion. And yes, I do think even bright costumes can be translated to reality by a talented costume designer. Why bother to adapt a pre-established work if you're not going to at least maintain some semblance of the source material? Superheroes are a fun, vibrant idea. Don't water them down to Matrix knock-offs.
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Ok, so this movie is not the greatest, but McFarlane seems to be the only guy in the comic business who actually gives a damn about his property and wants to see it done RIGHT on the screen. He got his pals to direct it and do the special effects. And the costume? Hey, guess what? It looks EXACTLY like it does in the comics! There were no problems transiting it into film! It looked fine! It even looked bad ass! Now, I agree that Spawn's colors are more film-friendly than the typical X-Man, but it just goes to show, if Marvel REALLY wanted to see their characters staying true to form in the film, they DID have the authority to do something about it, the problem is they didn't give a fuck, so the result is what happened. If they took any sort of stand or had any say in the production of X-Men, the costume designers WOULD HAVE FOUND A WAY to make the new costumes similar. I don't think there's anyone here who won't agree that completely new uniforms aren't necessary to bring the X-Men to life on the screen. This is much more of a case of the movie makers saying "Fuck what people think about the X-Men, these are MY X-Men, let's start all over".
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Good to see you finally start sticking up for yourself Harry....Keep it coming and show them why you run this site, not them....
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The reason I am sure comic book audiences won't accept costumes is that the actors would look ridiculous in them. I've made this point before. Can you imagine James Marsden in a skin-tight ANYTHING? Can you imagine any actor with chops in any of the x-men costumes? Of course not. The costumes are designed with impossibly, or at least heroically proportioned individuals in mind. Hey, how about Ian McKellan in a skintight latex bodystocking? Whoo, cool!
By definition, the costumes will have to be changed to an extent that the actors don't look ridiculous. How much do you change them? As little as possible you say. But how to explain to the audience in a two hour movie why the guy with the eybeams wears blue and yellow, but the chick with the red hair wears green and yellow and the guy with the claws wears brown and orange?! Don't they all end up as team in training? Since they theoretically have no prior pasts as heroes, it doesn't make sense that they would have these garish costumes. It just doesn't. This crap about remaining true to source material has merit with regard to characterization, and the powers of the various x-men (hence no ultra expensive nightcrawler, colussus or angel/archangel); but the costumes themselves are icing. As I said before, things like Rogue's stripe and Jean's and Wolverine's hair are fundamental to the character and should be maintained, but the costumes? I just don't see it. Particularly because this is the film 'origin' of the x-men, the outfits should be similar, since I assume they'll be assigned by Xavier. If the film is successful and we have some sequels, we should probably see some individualizing, but I don't see a need to distract audiences from what is hopefully a well-acted, well-directed film by blinding them with garish outfits.
As for Spawn, christ what a terrible example. The costume worked SOME of the time, but half the time it was so blatantly half-CGI that it looked silly. Anyway, since there was an unitelligible story line, miserable effects and laughable dialogue, the producers were probably happy for anything that distracted from the rest of the film. Maybe it was true to the comic, I don't know, I never read Spawn. But as a non-reader, the movie was incomprehensible and just silly. This is the reaction the filmmakers need to avoid from non-x-men readers, who hopefully will comprise a majority of the audience or the movie will be bomb massively.
I am not arguing that the costumes in the movie will work. Given the conflicting reports, and the absence of detail in all the reports, I can't even really picture what the costumes are going to look like. I don't, however, think the fact that they are not going to be 'true' to the comic is necessarily a negative.
Peace through random violence. -
Dec 04, 1999 3:15:25 AM CST
Qatseri, take some time to read the other damn posts before you
by niiiice
Damn, you're so full of yourself you're not paying any attention to what people are saying. So exactly what make Wolverine's hair and Rogue's stripe any more necessary to the character than the uniform? All of those things add to the overall appearance of the character! For the thousandth, time NO ONE is asking for fucking spandex, moron! Your whole post is concerned with proving how damn right and smart you are, not trying to post arguments. About the multicolored costumes. This is a damn action movie, the audience is going to want a reason why there's multicolored costumes! Duh! No one asked why Batman was black and robin got to have colors or why the Riddler was green! People just accept it! You really think audiences will say "Hey...now I just don't get this, he gets to have blue, while she wears black?" That being said, I don't have any problem with your argument that the uniforms should be similar at the beginning and become individualized as the franchise progresses. And you missed the point on the Spawn example. Spawn was brought up to show how Marvel could have fought to keep costumes true to the books if they wanted to, but they didn't. I said myself the movie had its fair share of problems, the movie doesn't have any bearing on the effectiveness of the costume, so weak argument for you. Actually you ended up supporting me by saying the producers were thankful for something to distract from the movie (meaning the costume DID work, the CGI shit was only on the CAPE), so all's fair. The point with X-Men is that over time the costumes come to symbolize the character. I have one more question for you that I hope you'll take the time to answer: so, according to your posts, if they took away Batman's horns and mask, gave him a buzz cut, leather jacket and brass knuckles instead, you'd be ok with that because its a "transition" from book to film? Don't say its differen't cause its not, the costume changes they're doing are just as drastic. I'm not saying I'm totally disagreeing with you in changing the costumes, I tihnk you follow your support of the studios a little too blindly and willingly.
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I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, since I have yet to read all the talk backs, but Harry mentioned one of Sabertooth's costumes was "suit-ish". Depending one where this takes place in the movie and in what setting, I find this kind of cool because if any of you who are an X-fan should remember the great story when Jim Lee was penciling back in the early issues of "X-Men" (the book that spawned off of "Uncanny X-Men" in the 90's.) I honestly can't remember what story arch it was...I want to say it was the intro to Omega Red, but there is a scene where the X-Men are captured and then outside you see Sabertooth (along with Birdie) stepping out of a limo in a fine taylored suit. It was a very cool shot and if the movie plays up on that...it would be cool. Pick up the issue (it was somewhere between issue 4 and 10 I think)
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"...I want to say it was the intro to Omega Red" Here I am! Hahahahaha. Okay, anyway, yes, Omega Red debuted in X-Men #4. I don't know if that helps you any other than to confirm your guess because I didn't read those (I wish I had though).......Anyway, I'd like to make a final comment (although I'm sure to return once boredom returns). What is the point of bitching about the costumes? Just hear me out for a second. The movie has been shooting for months, the costumes are made. Each of us wanting the costumes to be true to the comic are just gonna have to suffer. It may be what they should have done, it may not have. But theyre not gonna change it now. Now, what can you do about this? The only real thing to do would be to not see the movie. But do you know what that would do? If X-Men flops because of all us comic-geeks not seeing it because we felt betrayed, then the future will be bleak for comic movies. What studio would want to produce a comic movie after "The X-MEN, with PATRICK STEWART and IAN MCKELLAN, directed by BRYAN SINGER!!" takes in less than 30 mil? If anything we should want this movie to succeed or not be made at all, but its too late for the latter. So we all need to relax. Now, don't think of this as a post preaching to for us to stop argueing, for Harry has given us a wonderful opportunity to express our opinions to other film-geeks like ourselves. So continue argueing, but remember that you can't change anything, amd don't get too vicious with your personal attacks because they only make you look stupid (I learned that lesson in the LOTR talkbacks). Singer will provide us with a good effort (he seems to care about making a good movie, true to the comic or not). I'll be seeing this when it opens next summer, and I'm sure you all will too. Goodnight everyone, its 4:00 a.m. and I have no life....
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Qatseri, on further reflection, I think you're right about the unified costumes for the first movie. I really want the X-Men in their individualized outfits, but yeah, for the initial formation of the group, they should probably all wear some variant of the classic blue and gold design. Still, I'd argue that traditional superhero costumes is a perfectly legit idea in general. As Niiice said, we're not talking skintight spandex (ala Chris Reeves' Superman) for everyone. Use thicker materials, padding to suggest muscles, even some Batman-esque armor - there're many options to create superhero costumes, and they don't all involve thin, skintight material. The actors don't even have to be buff with muscles - that's where the padding and a little creative costuming comes in (jackets and capes for instance). Costumes individualize superheroes, and the bright colors are there because superheroes are a larger-than-life concept. If they wear all blacks and dark blues, they look like cops and government agents. Bright colors = adventurers, daredevils, SUPERHEROES. I want SUPERHEROES.
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Omega, I don't think anyone posting here has any illusions about changing the movie at this point. We're debating our versions of a hypothetical "perfect" X-Men movie, and whether superhero costumes would translate in general. And folks are making some good points (and some bad ones). I *do* want this movie to succeed, and I've got some faith in Singer yet. But...if the movie looks terrible, I'm not gonna go see it just to give comic book adaptations a public boost. In spite of what some Talkbackers suggest, not everyone who posts here goes to see every single genre movie. If the movie is bad, it deserves to fail. And if its failure means superhero movies don't get made for a few years, I can live with that. I'd like to see more comic book translations as strong as Superman or The Rocketeer, but the source material will live on whether it gets adapted to film or not.
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... it implies that this might turn out to be the first _powered_ comic book superhero movie you can take seriously. Like so many have said, Superman I loses it after the 2nd half. Superman II had the ridiculous "Expanding, ShrinkWrap, Cellophane S-Shield", holo-projection, telekinesis, and other cockamamie powers. I can't think of any others that even come close. It would be nice to see another Matrix type movie. I wish they would make way more Matrix type movies.
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Yeah, Matrix was the shit. We can agree on that. But, I dont want the X-men movie to wind up looking like the Matrix, I would much rather get a film thats fresh and original, not just a rehash of whatever happens to be popular at the moment. If I want to see a movie that looks like the Matrix, Ill watch the Matrix again. Lets all keep our fingers crossed that Singer can pull this off.
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Just wanted to say that I agree with you completely. Thats all.
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Well, as long as they are changing the costumes to make the X-men more palatable to the masses, here's hoping that they don't even call them MUTANTS. I think "genetically challenged" is a better term; our studio research shows that it will ensure bigger box office ("Mutant" makes people think "deformed", deformed makes people think "stumps", and stumps make people think "hospital"...and if an audience starts thinking about hospitals they become depressed--we here in research call it the PATCH ADAMS Syndrome). Also the "X" in X-men is disturbing; I'm suggesting something a little less prurient (for the kids!)like THE A-MEN (see, "A" translates as "good", "fine", and "above average"). These changes will ensure box office gold, baby! Gold!
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If Harry's description of the movie Wolvie is right, it sounds like the "powers that be" have tried to dress him up like Gambit (who should be in the film at any rate along with Nightcrawler, dammit). If so, then this is a major fuck-up of the highest order. Logan is more like a Marlboro Man (albeit a short 5'3" one), who exudes the wilderness of Canada, and not a "Matrix" type urban setting. No matter how hard I try I just can't see Logan wearing some kind of trench coat thingee. This movie gonna blow....
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is everyone forgetting that movies are made to make money? you talk about costumes being changed so that the average viewer can become one with the characters as easily as readers, and some of you say fuck the average viewer. this movie would never even be made if it weren't for the dollar potential of non-readers. and i'm pissed off that there hasn't been a decent Dr. Strange film yet.
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First I'd like to thank Cormorant and Qatseri for their reasoned and reasonable comments. I'd also like to offer an explanation, probably known by many here who work in or on the fringes of the entertainment industry, on why the X-Man costumes will invariably be much different in the film than a) the comics and b) the designs Harry saw (sorry Harry!) The "creative process" in Hollywood, often anything but, hinges on all the key creative people getting their props for having done an outstanding job. A good job is not enough anymore, it has to be outstanding. Nobody cares who was second place, after all. And you can't do an outstanding job if you merely faithfully reproduce the outfits fans have known and loved for the last thirty years. No. You have to have a "vision", albeit stolen from the Matrix, of what the outfits ought to look like. They have to shock us on appearance, which is why I'm sure they'll look slightly or tremendously different than the drawings shown to Harry by some studio middle manager. It didn't used to be like this. Richard Donner had tremendous respect for the character of Superman and what he represented when he made the first film in the late 70's. Tim Burton had respect for the Dark Knight when he made Batman. But unfortunately, his take on the character was neither definitive, nor in line with the actual non-kitchy darkness of the Bob Kane original character as brilliantly re-imagined by Frank Miller. Those will probably be the last two times youl see a nearly faithful reproduction of a character or his outfit in any situation wherein the original creator is not a key co-conspirator in the making of the movie (a la McFarlane and "Spawn"). Now, a word about costumes, materials, et al. Spandex sucks. No one should use it. Superman got away with something akin to it because of Christopher Reeve's performance drawing attention away from it. But rubber, leather, vinyl, Lycra and nylon can all be used very efectively. Did Trinity's outfit bug me? I'll tell you after I roll my tongue back into my head. Would I have been shaking my head if they had used dark green vinyl instead of black? Uh, no. Dark red? Uh, let me think. No. Cyclop's outfit could be blue/black, not bright blue. And if you think brightly colored outfits made of these materials will inspire laughter, my advice to you (L.A. area residents) is, go down some afternoon and watch the strippers try on new outfits down at the Dream Dresser store on a Saturday afternoon. I've been there many the time in my recliner with my popcorn and my Icee (I have a special arrangement with the store) and haven't laughed yet. Those who remember Rogue's great first outfit, from when the X-Men and Avengers battled back in some special issue in '83 or so, will recall that it was DEFINITELY intended to be made of vinyl and was, in fact, way ahead of its time. Jean Grey / Phoenix' outfit could be green but a dark green latex mold ... I mean, thigh high boots? We're talking about a stripper's outfit anyway, why not commit to it? The bottom line is, I agree with those who say that because these are adventurers and superheroes, we will give them latitude as long as the outfits don't suck. For those here old enough to remember, the original X-Men, who were created primarily to steal the thunder from D.C.'s Legion of SuperHeroes, who were created primarily to steal the thunder from Elvis, the Beatles and the Youthquake of the early Sixties, started out all wearing the same outfit. After a few years, there was a "very special issue" where they all got distinctive outfits, which were just different colored variations on the same theme, but good nonetheless. "Second Genesis" in 1975 brought together mutants who were not teenagers but in fact ranged from that age (Colossus) to around 40 (Banshee) almost all of whom had training and battle experience. So they began with their own costumes. Also, brilliantly, one of them (Thunderbird) died practically right off the bat. Genius. Sigh. Will we ever see its like again?
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thats why they fuck with the costumes!if they had tried a all black costume with SUPES people would have went apeshit.with the X-men no one will bat a eye except for geeks!
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Here's what I found out about the Lynch Series Mulholland Drive. Apparently ABC has passed on the series because of the violence. They see it as a bad choice in programming at this time because of such things as shootings in schools recently etc... Hopefully someone else will pick up the show. If this old news to you I'm sorry but I also found a script. Check out:
http://www.lynchnet.com/mdrive/mdscript.html -
a little more detailed info on that same site. I know I should have gone there first.
http://www.lynchnet.com/mdrive/ -
When Lynch was asked recently what he thought about the series not being picked up, he said he was relieved. According to Lynch, the network butchered his pilot. Lynch said he wishes he could have all of the copies of the show back. He hates knowing that copies of the show are floating around with his name on it.
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Honestly, is a film's quality judged strictly by how faithful an adaptation of the source material it is? If that's the case, then Howard Hawks' THE THING, Cronenberg's THE FLY, and of course THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL (based on the short story "Farewell to the Master"- I don't have time to list the differences) must be utterly horrible.
An unfaithful adaptation of a work never harms the original. Didn't like the 1998 GODZILLA? Well, the original is still at your local video store. (Or at least it should be, if they have any sense.) Thought BATMAN AND ROBIN sucked? Your classic DETECTIVE COMICS issues will be none the worse.
The X-MEN movie should not be judged on how similar the costumes are, or even on how similar the whole film is to the comic. It should be judged by its atmosphere, its characters, and its plot. A movie must be judged on its own terms. -
1. The Crow, Blade, Matrix, X-Men
- A Trenchcoat Sale?
2. One Good Thing until now:
No Nipples in The Costumes
(Burn in Hell Schumacher...)
3. I've no opinion about them after all - I'll wait for some PHOTOS - you hear me? NICE QUALITY PHOTOS please
4. Adamamantium based mutant maker?? c'mon......
5. the claws pass through rogue 'n then she absorbs wolverine's powers? the claws aren't metallic? or she felt on him and then touched some skin?
wheeee...
well, that's it! enjoy hehe -
It's in 15 minutes, I know. Sue me. Watch. Record.
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Dude, chill out. The whole reason why we log on the site is because we all have some reason to escape reality. Let it be just that.
Warrior, I have a special place waiting for you... -
Dec 04, 1999 9:58:58 PM CST
Who cares?We all knew this was going to suck from the start.You
by jar_jar69
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first post I've seen in this discussion to use correct grammar and puntuation. Kudos.
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Obviously you haven't read many posts here. Obviously you have nothing to contribute either, if your only post deals with the correctness of other posters' grammar.
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First of all asshole, if you were able to fucking read, my post was in response to Cormorant. I only mentioned your Spawn example to demonstrate a point to him. However, since you seem unable to even read the caption of a post, I'll try to use simpler words, so you'll understand.
Your comments might be a little more readable if you didn't try so hard to elevate your position with insults. However, since you've opened the door you dumbass, allow me to step through. You accuse me of not reading posts and then ask me that stupid fucking question about Batman?!? My whole point was that Batman and Superman are ICONS! They have national recognition, so no one gives a fart about the fact that they are in costumes. Moreover, the Batman Movies, particularly the last two, were similar to Spawn, and the sort of movies you expect X-men to be: Action, with little story, characterization, or even point. If this is the kind of treatment you want for X-men, great! Let's let all the posters vote for their favorite costume for each character and have them run around on the screen fighting neon lit villains.
The X-men are Not ICONS! Not to anyone who doesn't read comics. I've made this point three times now, and I notice from one of the posts in between someone else has made this point in their title. The costumes are not going to give the characters recognition to anyone who doesn't read comics, unlike Superman and Batman. (And noticed, nobody recognized Spawn, because nobody paid to see the fucking movie. Costumes do not help a comic book movie). You state that this is an "Action Movie" and the audience won't care if the costumes look silly. On what do you base this statement? The movie is directed by Singer and stars McKellan and Xavier in what will obviously be intellectually opposed roles. You think this makes it on the same level as Spawn? It may or may not be an "action movie". I don't know. But it's obvious the studio is trying for a more serious feel than most of the comic book adaptions have been.
You contradict yourself by admitting that the costumes should be similar in the beginning and become individualized at the end. Does this mean you want to see the nightmarish blue and yellow fighting togs of the Kirby X-men? (Yes, Kirby was a great innovator and one of the most creative illustrators of our time, but no one accused him of fashion sense).
If this is not what you mean, what similar costumes do you expect them to wear? Wolverine, Storm and Rogue NEVER had similar costumes. So you're asking the studio to invent new costumes, but you want them comic-booky. Make up your mind.
Finally, your accusation that I blindly support the studios is ludicrous. I do not support the studio. I do not know dick about the studio, and only the vaguest idea of the costumes or screenplay. Most of what I have read conflicts. What I do support is the idea that making predictions about how good a film is based on how the actors will dress is stupid. Particularly since you have no fucking idea how the costumes will look.
None of us are half so smart as we think we are dude, but you have demonstrated it more obviously than most. Before you start slinging self-righteous epiphanies along with your mud, take a minute to think about what you are reading and whether or not it's really worth getting upset about. Your instinctive need to spew bile is unfortunate. Without it you might have something worthwhile to say.
Oh, and Cormorant, I pretty much can agree with your responsive post. I would like brighter colors mixed in, and I would like an X somewhere, but too late now, eh?
Peace through random violence. -
Maybe I missed it......what's happended to gambit?
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Dec 05, 1999 2:23:57 AM CST
"I have responded to the Garbage Man's post, inform the crew . .
by moviet00l
This is gonna be a long one, folks. Garbage Man, I have no desire to get into a pissing match either, but for some reason I just can't drop this. I explained very clearly in my post what I meant when I wrote "identical." So, again, I'll ask you to re-read it. It seems clear that on most of these other issues, such as whether audiences are unwilling to accept characters or costumes which aren't "bad-ass," we'll just have to agree to disagree, as they say. You wrote, "The point I was trying to make, if you had bothered to pay attention, is that, even though the adjustments are sometimes minor, they are very necessary." That was, in fact, the same point I also made when I wrote
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You're both among the few who've had intelligent things to say - Omega Red was right, don't make it personal. ***** I stand by the idea that superhero costumes in the Marvel and DC tradition will readily be accepted by audiences (with some alterations, obviously) if the movie is good and the special effects are strong enough. Batman and Superman were more easily accepted because they were icons, *but*, icon status shouldn't be the only determining factor in deciding whether to translate superhero costumes faithfully or not. Cyclops, for instance, has a bad-ass costume. I think it'd hold up with only minor modifications (lose the underoos). If Nightcrawler were in it, I'd say the same thing. If Banshee were in it...well, damn, he'd have to be modified because that costume's just plain horrible-looking. Anyway, costumes should be evaluated on an individual basis, and in my opinion, kept close to the original if the original design is sound. It's true, however, that individualized costumes wouldn't make much sense during the first X-Men movie, so I vote for unified designs based on, yes, Kirby's gold and blue originals. True, Storm and Rogue and Wolverine never wore those costumes, but this is a case where I'll accept a deviation from the comics. I mean, I'm already accepting that the team will be comprised of X-Men from many different eras and that the story will be an amalgamation of X-Men plots, so I suppose I can wait for the unique costumes in the sequel. The realities of the film take precedent here. Oh, and it's a difference of opinion Qatseri, but I think the blue and gold Kirby colors can be translated. To reiterate a point I mentioned in an earlier post: look at the variety of uniforms soldiers have worn throughout history - some of them are pretty colorful, and I'm betting they didn't get laughed at unless they had on goofy hats too. On the contrary, chicks have always found vivid soldier uniforms handsome and guys have always thought they looked heroic in them. Indigo blue and black may be in vogue at the moment, but fashion changes like the weather and there are no constants. ****** Sidebar to Havok2000 - thanks for the well-informed post. I appreciate the realities of the film industry, but I maintain that a ballsy, controlling director could, erm, suppress the wilder instincts of his design crew in favor of his total vision. I'm praying that it'll be done with Spider-Man, and I'd love to see it done with the Fantastic Four (the FF, more than any other Marvel film, is one I'd like to see stick true to its off-the-wall Lee/Kirby roots). ****** Vaguely-related sidebar: Anybody else out there a fan of The Rocketeer? Fun movie. It's more pulp-adventure than head-on superhero stuff, but it's quite faithful to Dave Steven's original comic, costume and all. Stevens was pretty involved as I understand, and his participation created a nice balance between faithfulness to the source and the needs of a two hour movie. Too bad we can
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just thought that self-righteous folks should know the difference between "their", "they're" and use the correctly...although i'll admit, all the posters are better than Harry. Has anyone ever used more sentence fragments in the history of the world? This guys got on Siskel and Ebert and can't type a real sentence? anyway, I agree with doctor who about
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Dec 05, 1999 5:52:59 AM CST
needing Gambit in the film...he's one of the more intriguing X-m
by docholliday
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Dec 05, 1999 6:14:12 AM CST
Moriarty&Gin - umm, are your posts on grammar and punctuation me
by dave_f
I pray so, 'cause they're littered with typos and poor punctuation. You were joking...right? ***** By the way, though I think this particular Talkback has just about reached its conclusion...just for the hell of it, here's a few X-Men I don't want to ever see in any movies: Gambit, Bishop, Jubilee, or pretty much any character that came about after X-Men #200. Y'know, it really started sucking after that. Can't see how it's remained so popular.
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Actually, I think Gambit would be really cool in a movie. He's just about the only "later-generation" charcter I like. He should be in the movie just to fool around with Rogue and annoy the hell out of Wolverine (Outta my way, Gumbo!---one of my favorite lines from the Saturday morning series). He has also had some running battles with Sabertooth over the years, so that might've been an interesting sub-plot). Might have, but tis not to be. As the cajun would say, "C'est la vie!"
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I live in the Toronto, and work in the film industry, and friends of mine are working on the visor for CYCLOPS. I was at their shop on Friday and they were in the process of painting about a dozen of them. It seems that the original design/model, made by some LA based efx company, did not meet up to Bryan Singers (is that the right name) 'vision', and when he was handed the visor, had a hissy fit and smashed it on the ground. So now my friends local efx prop building company basically redesigned it, but alas, will not be credited for it. They tell me that along with the dozen or so 'inert' visors they have made, there are also versions that can 'jack in', other versions have mechanical efx stuff that sprouts out of it(ala Robocops leg gun) andf a bunch of rubber stunt versions. These guys also have the security marked screenplay, but never got my mitts on it. As for the Directors hissy fit? Seems he is a Prima Donna, and not just a little bit of an asshole. But I've worked with a shitload of a-holes in the industry, so it's no suprise. Later-Bluegeoff
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Dec 05, 1999 12:38:01 PM CST
An apology for the bitchiness....To Qatseri, Cormorant, SSZero a
by niiiice
Just read some of the posts on the Star Wars board from those high and mighty "intellectual" types and they really pissed the hell out of me, then I realized I was doing a bit of that myself on the comic-related boards (although I must say I tried to give arguments rather than resorting to self-glorifying remarks). Visit some other talkbacks, I don't normally get this frustrated. Qatseri, just because you address a post to someone doesn't mean you're restricting it to ONLY that person. If you want to do that, send an e-mail, otherwise its up for argument from anybody. Otherwise, good post, I agree about the "icon" topic. By the way, I wasn't contradicting myself, I was looking at the argument from BOTH sides of the argument (which I'm sure you'll agree most people don't have the open-mindedness to do) to see where you're coming from. The reason I brought up the Spawn example was more to demonstrate how if Marvel really wanted the studios to stay true to their characters, it was within their power to do so. However, I still beleive this will be an action movie, rather than a drama. You can still have intellectually opposed roles in an action movie (although an "intelligent" action movie is something of a rarity). I agree that the studios seem to be taking it seriously, the poitn is not to take it too seriously, or the audience just won't buy it. Coromorant, sorry I've fallen prey to the temptations of mud-slinging and name calling (you have to admit its so easy to do here). SSzero, I'm not so full of myself that I think I can change the course of an entire talkback (Sorry, I couldn't figure out if your post was meant to be an insult or not). As for Gites, I've given up all hope of you, my estranged long-lost evil twin. On a lighter note, I notice more and more posters mentioning Gambit as of late. Does anyone know what became of that rumor from waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back that there would be cameos from three X-men (I think it was Beast, Gambit and Iceman) would appear at the very end of the film, thereby setting up the X-sequel?? Oh, and I don't think the special effects on Iceman would become too costly. Iceman can be in shots were he uses his powers without "icing on" or whatever its called. They can save the full-body iceworks to the climactic battle scenes. Just some thoughts.......Oh, and by the way, to the anal poster who's doing random grammar checks...screw you! What you have to say is more important than how you say it, based on that, what have you said?
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Interesting post. So you actually saw the visor? About a dozen possibilities???? That is damned cool. So, did you just catch a glimpse of them or were you really able to get in the down and dirty with them. How do you think they compare against the comic book version? What color are they? Yellow would look pretty......mismatched on black. I think maybe chrome or silver would look badass if they're really going for that "badass techno" look (which I'm personally against). You think you can post some descriptions as to the differences in the visors you saw, and which one you liked best. Hell, might as well make a full-fledged spy report out of it, it'll be some of the coolest news lately related to the X-men! By the way, does anyone know if that little belt-harness thing Cyclops wears in the books is still there??
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Haha, thanks for the understanding, I hope I didn't go too far off the cliff this time. But then I think I still have several hostile posters waiting for me in another board, so best not to keep them waiting!
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I'd have thought you'd at least have had a hidden camera on you for Christ's sakes !!!
Aw who the hell cares, this dud's gonna suck big-time anyway, mark my words........
Can't believe he didn't take a fucking camera........mutter..........mutter............mutter -
Do you actually post things that are on-topic in this board, or do you just come to reiterated your beleif that I'm Harry.
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Hopefully one of the themes in the movie will be about the anti-mutant feelings of aggression and the angst that the mutants feel......having an Avengers crossover would detract from that. If anyone read that giant, and in my opinion the best X-crossover ever, X-tinction Agenda, that would make a badass sequel/crossover. The only problem is that there are so many damned characters, and at the time, I think its only Storm and Wolverine that are still with the X-men, all the regulars moved out of the house and became X-Factor. But that storyline was pure epic, one of the best things to come out of X-men before Claremont and Lee left and the plots started become really childish. The setup is good...Genosha is a republic that enslaves mutants into "genegineered" drones, and they see the X-Men as the biggest threat to the Genoshan's way of life, so their army invades the burnt-down X-mansion, kidnap a bunch of New Mutants....so much stuff happens here, this is my favorite of all storylines that happened in the X-Men!
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is of course - what does Prof X think about the pedestrianisation on Norwich city centre?
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That they will have more than 1 costume in the movie anyways. First, I'm assuming, they'll kind of me like military style where they all have the same type of uniform but by the end they become individulaized (is that a word?). So maybe we will see some type of costume similar to the movie eventually. As someone said before imagine that this is a revamp all over again. The X-Men roster and costumes have been revamped a bunch of times, plus I heard they're supposed to be revamped again for the millenium. I think one of the reasons the costumes work in the comics is that the colors they use make it seem look good. They can adjust the color in the comics to make the costumes look good in any situation. However if you want to go more for the realistic feel then its a bit more complicated and might come out looking bad. The most important thing right now is performance. I want to see good acting which is something that's really been lacking in superhero movies for the most part. Other than the first 2 Superman movies, and the Burton Batman movies the acting in general has not been good. I mean sure the movie could look good, but wouldn't you rather have them act like the character instead of just look like them. Glenn Danzig is a name I've heard for years suggested for Wolverine. What has he ever done to convince me he could take this role other than being short and built. Sure he was in the Prophecy 2, but really that's it. This movie is being taken seriously because everyone has their eye on it. The success or failure of this movie will determine the future outcome of future superhero movies and whether or not they should get the greenlight. So putting Danzig in a role like that would be a mistake. Sure he'd look the part but doesn't have acting skills, music is his thing so lets have him stick to that. As a huge X-Men fan that's been waiting for 8 years now since it was rumored I can say that good acting is the 1st thing I'm looking for. I can live with another revamp, and as long as they stick to the basics of their powers and personality then cool. The new look for the costumes actually sounds good and I'm looking forward to it.
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Man, i dont check in for a while and i see all this damn hostility! As far as I'm concerned, kudos to Harry for getting us the info he can get on such things. While the rest of us are spankin' it to internet porn while locking ourselves away in our homes for days at a time, he's getting us some of the info we crave on upcoming stuff. This is while the rest of us are quoting professional wrestlers to be the first to call him a sellout for it. You people are already suffering from what a lot of us were guilty of in the couple of years before TPM was released. You're raising your expectations so high that youre setting yourselves up for a letdown. Just take your little snippets of info and don't let them overtake you. Bottom line is this: we have to trust Singer and his crew to put out a quality film. If he doesn't, he'll only be guilty of what other directors have done by failing to translate a comic franchise onto the silver screen (Batman 2-4, anyone?). It's not the end of the world, people....
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Heh, good point. Sorry for losing it there for a bit, I caught Niiice's post at bad time and went a bit overboard. Anyway, I think I've made all my points.
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The effect would be massive. He would would have been relatively clean lately,so his heroin tolerance would be very low. Within minutes his respitory system would start to slow down,and less and less oxygen would be getting into his lungs. The cigarette in his mouth would cut down on his air supply still further. Wolverine may register the fact that he was suffocating, but it would not bother him. One of the reasons heroin is so blissful is that it suppresses the reticular-activating system, which governs our state of alertness, as well as our response to pain. Wolverine would start to shiver with cold, his breathing would get shallower, and he would start to suffocate. He would know something was wrong, but he would not be able to do anything about it. And it wouldn't matter much to him anyway.It would all be happening at some wonderful,numb distance. His death would strike him as the least interesting thing in the world.
But then again he is a freakin' mutant so perhaps he can shoot more smack than the average human. -
You caught me. But in my defense I was too busy downloading porn to expend too much original thought on a Wolverine/heroin commentary.
How about this...
NEWPORT--The EgyptAir Flight 990 cockpit recorder recovered from the ocean floor on Saturday recorded strange chants and the pilot and co-pilot trying to solve a growing crisis,but the 31 minutes of audiotape provided no quick explanations of why the jet crashed into the Atlantic.
Investigators listened to the tape yesterday after it was flown from Newport to washington for review by the National Transportation Safety Board. Based on Initial review the first 28 minutes of the voice recordings show nothing unusual and only routine conversations,but after that,a source at the NTSB familiar with the investigation who was quoted by the Associated Press says,an unidentified voice can be heard in the cock-pit repeating in a strange broken speech pattern the words,"The...Fire...Gods..were entranced...by the...loose...cannon...bolt."
"At this point something happens. Alarms go of. Both pilot and co-pilot try to fix it. And all the while that strnge chant is repeated over and over. And then the tape stops."
The anonymous source also reports that an early attempt to further analyze the sounds within the cock-pit to help compare them to the library of sounds compiled by the NTSB. The source claims the second set of sounds seem to say,"Jennifer Love Hewitt's new Fox series Time of Your Life."
There is only speculation at this point in the investigation as to what these two chants could possibly mean or what there connection to the crash could be.
In a statement lastnight,NTSB chairman,James hall said no conclusions could be drawn from the information retrieved from the voices recorded on the tape. But sources within the FBI feel a possible clue may be found in recent case in which the main suspect in a string of bombings was a former writer on the television show,Time of Your Life.
Forrester K. Halafax is being sought throughout Los Angeles for the bombing deaths of three in July of last year. The FBI's investigation into the bombings led them to producers of Time of Your Life when many staff members began to call in complaints about Mr. Halafax.
"We received many accounts from people who worked on the show concerning Mr. Halafax's exploits," says a source who helped with the investigation.
"Mr. Halafax began his stint as a creative consultant and headwriter but when the heads of fox programming forced the producers to overhaul the show Mr. Halafax was given the unpleasant task of trying to fit in a new potential love interest for Jennifer love Hewitt's character.The new character was to be named Antonio,and he was to be a young latino singer with qualitys combining the ferocious wit of Beck with the heartthrob attributes of a Ricky Martin or Enrique Eglesias.And he was to have a pet monkey named olive who spoke to him using a strange telepathic language."
"At that point," continued the source,"Forrester K. Halafax is believed to have snapped under the pressure of the request and was soon seen roaming the Fox Studio backlots,and chanting the the phrase,The Fire Gods were entranced by the loose cannonbolt."
Soon reports began to be filed with The LAPD about a strange man who had positioned a hollow out television in the middle of one of the main streets and had drawn bizarre symbols around it with pieces of charred pigeon bones.Again eyewitnesses reported they heard Halafax chanting those strange words,"The Fire Gods..."
A few weeks later the first of two bombs detonated in the Fox Studio parking lot killing one and injuring two others. It wasn't long after that the second bomb also exploded killing Ricardo Sanches,23,an actor who was in negotiations to play the new love interest in Time of Your Life. Also killed in that second blast was Bill Inget,48,a monkey trainer from colorado. Overheard coming from loud speakers strategically placed around the Fox Studio during and after the blasts were recordings of Halafax repeating the Fire God chant.
It didn't take long for police and FBI to connect Halafax to the bombings. But raids of his apartment only turned up a dozen jars of three week old monkey piss, the dehydrated husk of a small eskimo boy named Huka, and thousands of unproduced Time of Your Life scripts in which all of the main characters sit in a circle facing each other and repeat the Fire God chant. The search for Forrester K. Halafax continues.
Jennifer Love Hewitt could not be reached for comment.But perhaps the clues yielded by the cock-pit voice recorder of EgyptAir Fight 990 point to the last terrorist act by Mr.Halafax.
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At this very moment the disoriented ghost of Madeline Kahn is comforting the cold and lonely Mars Polar Lander as it frantically screams towards the heavens in an attempt to contact it's creators.
When I question my strong belief that Madeline Kahns spirit HAS actually materialized at the polar icecap regions of Mars,I just tell myself that given the data at hand it is the most logical conclusion. -
there's a comic book movie!
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Just think...as jealous as you all are right now, in 4 months when the first full trailer is cut, the world will know what they look like and no one will give a shit.
And in 70 years, when all of us are dead and buried, it really won't matter and you'll wish you'd spent your time thinking about more interesting things.
Just trying to put it in perspective...
Now, SPAM AWAY!!!
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Dec 06, 1999 2:20:16 PM CST
Just for the record, Sabertooth has been portrayed in the comics
by dennis
He's animalistic, but without the morals Wolverine posesses. But I've seen him drawn as sort of an elegant villian at times. Maybe that's where they're going with the suit. Thanks for the scoop Harry -- sounds good!
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I just wanted to add that I think there is an interesting association between Magneto and his costumes. Magneto is a product of his environment -- his persecution by the Nazis. However, it seems that the choice in costumes may be early indicators that by the end of the film, Magneto will become the very thing he despises. The description of the militaristic costumes sound vaguely nazi-like. We all know that's the turn Magneto's character eventually makes when he becomes the "good" Magneto for awhile. By the way, Rob Liefeld sucks, and yes, the X-Force costumes are corny. X-Factor has it all over the X-Men wannabes.
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. . . constumes are the least of our worries, I'd say, and we all knew none of these folks were going to be dressing in bright colors (well, I knew it). So hey, they're wearing superhero-ish costumes, that's enough for me. And it seems that there is a lot of black. . . interesting. . . maybe it'll be better that way, at least as far as the screen is concerned. And as for Mystique, all I can say is - scales or not. . . hubba hubba.
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moviet001: I realized that I hadn't finished my thought, but I was tired of typing. I'm of two minds about the whole costume thing anyway - I'd like to see something different, but on the other cortex I want them to be faithful. Your post caught me during the "Devil's Advocate" hour, which is right after happy hour. Well, it's garbage night, so I'm off...
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Amen, brother! Bring on Rutger Hauer, the man who was born to play Magneto!
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This will sound absurd, but it's true. I have a connection with the crew on the X-men, and this is what I heard. Brian Singer was caught with a 14 year old boy, and is currently in a lot of trouble. Word is that he probably won't continue with the film, and will be replaced, hence the delay! I know how bad this sounds, but it is the truth. You heard it here first.
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I'm just some webmaster from Phoenix that knows nothing about the movie industry other than I go see tons of movies.
I come to this website every day and read all the good stuff and pass on all the bullshit posts. But I pretty much had to post a reply this time because I guess I am fed up with "The Warrior."
I have read most of your "first responses" in these talkbacks and you basically call Harry a sell-out in every one of them. OK - we know your fucking opinion but shut up already its getting old. You made it quite clear how you feel and frankly I am sure many of us are sick to death of seeing it every time you post.
Maybe you should find some other conspiracy to freak out on.
See ya in helllllllll....
ColdSun. -
No amount of whining and moaning will do one ounce to change their costumes. Hollywood will do whatever they want and no fanboys can do anything to change that. Get over it.
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I just found out that the film was delayed, but not from my source. It was delayed a few weeks. This is just proof that Singer really isn't doing the film anymore. I'm not trying to stir up shit, or to piss people off. This is the truth. X-men was delayed because Brian Singer was caught with a 14 year old boy, and is in a lot of trouble. They're currently looking for another director to finish up the film.
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Kudos (mmmmmm...granola) to you Harry for getting such a great scoop for all us rabid fan boys. Personally, I think more realistic suits would be just the thing to help translate X-Men to the live action big screen. I even like the way some of the costumes sound in that (fake) report in a previous article (Cyclops in black leather with a silver visor? Put a big silver and black X on that bad boy and you've got one kick ass costume!) Next time, get pics! I don't care if you have to have the camera surgically implanted into Mr. Happy and go around the studio with your fly open all day, get some pics! Now, on to bigger and greener things. LEAVE THE HULK A-FUCKING-LONE! I liked those movies, and anyone who has a problem with that can kiss my hairy green gamma mutated ass! The old Spiderman shit from the seventies, yeah that sucked ox cock, but the Hulk was good. The only problem I had with the whole thing was the character's name. DAVID Banner? What the fuck is wrong with Bruce? It worked for Batman!
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