Hey everyone. Capone in Chicago here.
Vince Vaughn is one of the funniest, smartest, sharpest comic actors working today, and his roles in OLD SCHOOL, STARSKY & HUTCH, ANCHORMAN, DODGEBALL, BE COOL, WEDDING CRASHSERS, THE BREAK-UP, and COUPLES RETREAT all present a version of Vaughn that we are familiar with and tend to find funny. But after his presence was truly felt opposite long-time pal John Favreau in SWINGERS, he took on a series of largely serious (or at least non-comedic) roles in films like THE LOST WORLD: JURASSIC PARK, THE LOCUSTS, A COOL DRY PLACE, CLAY PIGEONS, THE CELL, THE PRIME GIG, MADE, and, yes, even Gus Van Sant's PSYCHO remake.
I happen to think Vaughn is a terrific dramatic presence, and of the list above, I'd point you to CLAY PIGEONS as the best example of what he's capable of. But now, with the Ron Howard-directed THE DILEMMA, Vaughn gets one of his best opportunities to meld his two strengths in one film, in which he plays Ronny a man who has discovered that his best friend's wife is cheating on him right as their jointly owned car-design company is about to embark on the biggest deal its ever seen. The film has a lot of funny stuff from Vaughn and his partner in crime Kevin James, but the laughs soon give way to some fairly tragic and emotional moments.
Although I was fortunate enough to spend a great deal of time sitting and chatting with Vaughn on the Chicago set of THE DILEMMA last summer, we never actually spoke on the record. So this interview marks our first-ever official interview. I also found it really strange that when I was on the set, I got to meet Vaughn's wife, who was just starting to show her just-announced pregnancy, and just a few weeks ago, she gave birth to their first child.
On the evening of our interview, I was Vaughn's last interview of the very long day. I was sitting on a bench by the elevators when Vince and his team got off to go the interview room. He saw me waiting and said, "Hey, buddy. How's it going? You coming down to talk?" And a couple minutes later, that's exactly what we were doing? Enjoy my talk with Vince Vaughn…
Vince Vaughn: Did you have a long day?
Capone: Just waiting downstairs for everybody. Probably not as long as your day, I'm guessing.
VV: Did you talk to Ron [Howard] at all?
Capone: Yeah, I talked to him.
VV: Oh good.
Capone: I was enjoying watching all of the L.A.-based publicists freak out like little kids at the snowfall.
[Both Laugh]
VV: You’re like “This ain’t snow.”
Capone: This is just a flurry; this ain't shit. So, I’ve got to say, I’ve been covering this movie for so long and in such detail that I felt like I knew what I was getting into when I saw it yesterday. I am so happy that you guys let the drama prevail. That serious tone made all the difference, and I’m really glad that you went there, because I love it when you do like serious stuff back to like CLAY PIGEONS and THE CELL and even what you did in PSYCHO, which, say what you want about the movie, but what you were doing in that movie was cool. I like the comedies, too--don’t get me wrong--but I like when you remind us that you can do this stuff. Did you and Ron have a lot of conversations about getting the tone right?
VV: You know, the fun for me was in working with Ron, there’s a safety net in that you respect his taste and his filmmaking ability, and so like on a lot of the other movies, we really collaborated. There was a real re-writing process where all of the actors when they would come in would sort of approach their character with their own ideas, and I think the studio makes some mistakes sometimes in feeling that things can be only a comedy or only dramatic, and audiences are more sophisticated than that.
The thing that I’m most rewarded by is the audiences have responded overwhelmingly. The feedback that we have gotten in the test scores, as you know, have been through the roof. People really like the movie, and I think that people are refreshed that ultimately they are entertained. There are some really funny moments, but they get gripped by the turns. They get gripped by what’s happening next. They get caught up in the journey as you take it, and so with something like the toast scene will get a huge laugh, because you’re breaking tension, but then when you turn around and you have some of the moments that are more heartfelt. I think you really feel those, because you were just laughing, and so it’s nice for people to come I think if they know that there’s going to be great comedy, but you are really going to get gripped into these lives and you are going to have some great turns and some great drama. So, to do something that’s not just an execution of one particular tone, that something that allows itself--in a compliment to Ron--to be sort of original and let itself go to all of these different places is really fun.
Capone: At the party last night, I heard Kevin [James] voicing concern about some of the funnier scenes getting trimmed, and I can see why he would be a little more nervous about it than you, because he’s never really done anything like this. But I think he nailed it; I really do.
VV: He really did, and I think what you are feeling from Kevin is more of “Is there an expectation of only comedy?” more so from what a marketing standpoint would be. Meaning if you are only selling it in the form of a comedy, did we go without as much comedy as one should have? But as a standalone film, I think it’s a perfect film for the message that Ron was saying with it, and I think Kevin is very proud of it and feels that way as well. The question then becomes a second game, which as you know, is “How do you market something that has a tone that’s not usual?” Something that’s not a common thing, but that’s really the Rudolph of it all. That’s the thing that makes it really kind of awesome and special.
Differently for me in THE BREAK-UP we straddled drama a little bit, and SWINGERS to some degree, but ultimately with the movie I think the winningness and the place that we come to in the movie is really a feel-good place that’s really earned, and people leave in the kind of mood that you want from this movie. I think you get that at the end of the film, so I think the journey along the way is appreciated. The way that I felt when I saw what Ron did with the movie was quality. Whether it’s a little drama or a little funny, there’s real quality film work going on.
Capone: When I saw Ron last night, he said, “I’m so sorry that whole day you were there is not even in the movie”--the day in the gambling den. I think it’s cool that I even know that it exists, and to include that scene in the final film would have made it even darker.
VV: That's right. Then it would perhaps lead the question, because my character, you had been informed, was covering and lying, that if you saw me inside the place without giving too much away, you would say “Is he tell the truth now?” That would be a different kind of vibe where it would be kind of interesting, but you would be asking the audience, “Is he telling the truth at this point?”
Capone: That’s the cool thing. Ronny is still kind of a damaged guy, even 18 months not having gambled, but he’s still kind of a damaged guy and his relationship hasn’t 100 percent recovered from it. But that moment with you and Jennifer [Connelly], where you are asking her “Is there a clock [on how long she's willing to stay with him without being married]?” That’s a real conversation, that’s a conversation that real people have. I love that these people resemble real people having real conversations. Even the confrontation with you and Winona [Ryder] in the diner, that’s how real people converse, and it felt like you guys always opted to go real as opposed to going…
VV: …for the traditional setup to a joke, yeah.
Capone: Exactly. Talk to me about some of those smaller moments, because those were some of my favorite scenes actually.
VV: Sure, that's the connective tissue that informs you where people are changing or what’s on the table or what’s at stake.
Capone: They are all kind of in transition, too. The company, the restaurant, the marriage.
VV: I think in life that we are always in transition, meaning the moment something happens. This interview, we're here and we're engaged, but then it will be over, and you will be “I have to get somewhere” or “I have to go somewhere,” then you will get there, and it will be what that is and then it’s “Well, now I’ve got to go do this.” So it’s never finite. You are always in transition and doing stuff. What I like about the movie is that it’s not preachy or trying to take a message to say “This is an absolute truth.” But as you say, Ronny is damaged, and I think he is in a way where he’s almost recovering. He’s coming into a good place in his life from some big lessons learned, but I think that’s how it always is. We mature, we learn some big lessons, we go “Boy, I’m out of that,” and then here comes a new storm. “Really? I’ve got to go through something else and get my feelings hurt somehow or make some new mistakes and grow from that?” What I think is nice in the movie is all of the characters ultimately care about their relationships, Winona’s character as well, they do care about other people’s feelings. It’s not about people that are sort of just pathological.
Capone: Yeah, no one gets demonized here.
VV: Yeah, but you are navigating it. You are saying “What’s to say that’s not going to hurt my friend, or what do I owe to say that’s not the right way to her?” They are kind of figuring it out as they go, and I think what’s routable is we like all of these characters. We know that they care, and so you go “Who hasn’t made these mistakes and tried to figure out what to do?”
The winning thing to me in the movie is nothing is a glass of milk, there are these complicated issues that you would buy happening. You don’t say, “Well here’s the easy way, and they didn’t really do this, and it’s just this, and how could they not forgive?” They go to some places that could be real damaging for friendships and relationships, but I think it gives you a roadmap back, which is the nice thing, which is what we all want. You know when things go bad, and I don’t care who your best friend is, you always have a few moments that you wished didn’t happen. The worst place is when you get to a place where it’s forgiven, but not forgotten and it’s kind of icky. It’s like “Okay, okay…” What’s nice with how we do with this movie is it comes back to a place where they are better for it. How do you go through those learning curves, those mistakes that we all make, and end up with a better relationship because of it? It’s about trust, isn’t it? It’s about trusting that they learned that mistake, and maybe there will be new ones, but hopefully I wont be the same one.
Capone: In looking over some of your more recent filmography, say in the last ten years, I noticed you only do about one film a year where you are the above-the-title guy, plus you might do a few cameos or supporting parts. Why is it that you spread it out that way?
VV: You know, it depends on the material. The one year that I did… I don’t remember if it was FRED CLAUS, I was also in INTO THE WILD with Sean [Penn]. And I did THUMBSUCKER the same year I did WEDDING CRASHERS [and MR. AND MRS. SMITH and BE COOL].
It depends what comes my way, and the movies that are out there that you are interested in being in and then also sometimes I get motivated, whether it’s THE BREAK-UP or COUPLES RETREAT, and you kind of come up with an idea and then you sort of are the driving force to see that concept through fruition. This was a nice one, because it was Brian [Grazer] coming to me with an idea and getting to collaborate and really take the lead from Ron and follow him. So that was really fun and working with a bunch of great actors in this one.
But I never really plan anything. [laughs] When I was younger, I remember after I had done RETURN TO PARADISE and some of those other movies you mentioned. After SWINGERS, all I got offered were comedies and I thought “Well I don’t want to do these. These comedies aren’t really funny. There’s not a lot of thought in them.” Then I did kind of, whether it was CLAY PIGEONS or RETURN TO PARADISE, and to me, it was a chance to work with Gus when I did PSYCHO. I remember being surprised at the reaction to [PSYCHO], because as an actor as there’s nothing sacred in the arts. Songs get done by other people…
Capone: Plays get redone constantly.
VV: Yeah, plays get redone, and I think the biggest thing is to have an imagination and come from a childlike place. That’s always where I have approached stuff, more of a fun place and not such a precious place. That’s one of the things I liked about the arts was that we didn’t have to be so tiptoeing around stuff. Stay in that place of make-believe and having fun. That’s what my thing was, but then when I went to do OLD SCHOOL, I remember the studio saying, “We don’t know if Vince Vaughn is funny. I don’t know if he can do comedy.” Honestly! I remember Todd Phillips saying that he kind of had to push for me to be in OLD SCHOOL, and then there was DODGEBALL, and then all of a sudden, now I’ve done a ton of comedies.
But I really liked those movies that I was doing and I thought they were all quality movies and really enjoyed them, and so I’ve always wanted to do something where--I mean, THE BREAK-UP was a movie that called for some more range and that was really fun and has turned out thankfully to be a movie that’s really remembered and talked about. But in this one, the fun for me was that there was a chance to do a little bit more of a range than you normally get to show. You get to get very upset and hurt and do a lot of different stuff in the movie, which is fun. But it’s all really about what the part requires, and I guess for me too it’s the fun and the joy. Like if I’m working with someone like Kevin, who I really like and have a good time with and Queen [Latifah] who’s great and Channing [Tatum]--what a great kid and a good actor--then you're having fun. I like being part of a team. I like all of us working to make the thing better, less so do I approach saying, “I have to do this or play on this.” I never really plan anything, I just sort of go “What’s going to be fun? What’s going to be a nice time?”
Capone: I should have said this right off the bat, congratulations on the new baby.
VV: Oh thanks, buddy. I appreciate it.
Capone: Is that going to tie you more to Chicago and making even more movie here?
VV: Well Chicago is… Look, all of John Hughes’ films were here, and there was always of course THE BLUES BROTHERS. We’ve always been a great city for filmmaking.
Capone: I noticed the healthy stack of John Hughes movies in one scene.
VV: Little homage! That's right.
Capone: When I visited you on the set, we talked a lot about John Hughes being an inspiration for a lot of female screenwriters and writing strong female characters.
VV: It’s interesting, because they would kind of label him, but when you look at it he was writing parts for 16-year-old girls that were really honest, and then you know some of the John Candy movies that he did that were just really great movies. He was a master of having some drama and some comedy and finding a balance of having great scenes. Boy, I always remember that scene in PLANES, TRAINS, AND AUTOMOBILES where you are kind of laughing at Candy with Martin, and Candy says “Go ahead and laugh at me. I’m an easy target.” Then you felt so bad, he’s like “I’m not going to change, because you don’t think I’m cool. That’s who I am. I like my friends. I’m nice. This is who I want to be.” I just love that.
Capone: You said Kevin reminds you Candy and has some of that same appeal.
VV: Kevin’s got a real genuineness to him. He’s funny, but you root for him and you could feel it last night, you really like the guy, so you really don’t want to see anything happen to him which is nice. I love shooting here. This is my home. I’ve been really thankful as an actor to get to travel and go a lot of different places. I’ve gotten a big education from getting to go to different places and done that, but as I think of having a family and stuff, I would go somewhere to shoot a movie, but I do prefer if I can go home and see my family at night after work, which is nice.
Capone: Sure. Have you gotten the chance to see Amy Morton [who plays Vaughn's sister in the movie] in WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOOLF? at the Steppenwolf yet?
VV: Not yet, but how good is she in the movie?
Capone: I'm a huge fan of hers. She’s awesome in the movie. I love seeing her.
VV: There are a lot of great actors here locally.
Capone: Yeah, when we actually talked, I remember us talking about Chicago theater, and you were floating the idea about some of the bigger theaters maybe starting up independent film companies and trying to get films made around here with some of their ensemble actors.
VV: What I was saying was somewhere like Second City, which I was never a part of, but you see a lot of talent that comes out of there. Favreau had some training in Second City. I had taken from Del Close when he was at the Improv Olympics just for a few months. But you see a lot of the talent that comes out of there who then go on to write these screenplays, whether it’s Tina Fay or Steve Carrel. A lot of these people do very well, and I just thought that they are learning so many things at Second City about writing and about comedy, albeit for sketch, and then they're learning about screen writing that they could do something where they could start to encourage some screenwriting while they are there, because you get a lot of funny people who are writing and doing stuff, and they could kind of expand upon that if they wanted to. There’s always been a lot of comedy and otherwise people from Chicago who have always had a voice in film.
Capone: Do you get to actually vote for mayor in February?
VV: I do. I do.
Capone: That’s got to be kind of cool for you. Daley’s been the mayor the whole time you have been living here, right?
VV: That’s true. And his father way before that. Do you follow Chicago politics.
Capone: I'm following the mayoral race, for sure. In fact, I was getting off the Red Line subway at Roosevelt three days ago, and I came up the escalator and Rahm Emanuel was just standing there shaking everyone's hands. So, I shook his hand and wished him luck. Nice surprise for the day.
VV: No kidding. That's great.
Capone: Yeah. There was another actor from the film I wanted to mention, and I saw him last night actually, Chelcie Ross.
VV: Yeah, hes a local guy. He was in RUDY with me.
Capone: That’s right. I was going to ask if you actually did know him from that. I couldn't remember if you had a scene together in RUDY.
VV: Yeah, he played one of the coaches in RUDY when everyone was turning in their jerseys, and he was the coach at the end of the game. It was really a treat to get a chance to do something with him like that.
Capone: He’s such a great character actor.
VV: He really is.
Capone: He’s funny in the movie, too. So, do you have a plan for what you want to do next, movie-wise?
VV: No, I’m going to take some time with my wife and the baby for a little bit and then look for something new to go do. I’m still motivated to work and to do stuff, but I just feel, right now, I’m a little bit more motivated to just kind of enjoy this time with my family.
Capone: Sure, of course. All right, well great. Thank you so much. It’s good to see you again.
VV: Good talking to you bud, yeah.
-- Capone capone@aintitcool.com
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