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Confirmed: Hans Zimmer Is Scoring Zack Snyder's SUPERMAN! Promises A "Reinvention"!
Beaks here...
You knew this was coming, but now it's official: Zack Snyder's SUPERMAN will not be carrying over John Williams's iconic main theme, first heard in Richard Donner's 1978 film and resurrected for Bryan Singer's 2005 continuation. Snyder has instead enlisted Hans Zimmer to score his top-down reinvention of the DC Comics superhero.
Zimmer let the cat out of the bag at a DVD release party for INCEPTION this week, and discussed the challenge of following up Williams's unforgettable score with NBC San Diego's Scott Huver...
“It's a hard one,” mused Zimmer, “but I followed one of the most iconic things on 'Batman' with Chris as well, and it's the same thing. You are allowed to reinvent, but you have to try to be as good or at least as iconic and it has to resonate and it has to become a part of the zeitgeist. That's the job. On 'Gladiator' I remember people always talking about 'Spartacus' and I kept telling them, 'When you saw "Spartacus" and how it affected it you, that's how I want a modern audience to be affected by what we do now.' So I think ultimately you're supposed to reinvent.”
This was obviously inevitable and necessary. Any nod to the Christopher Reeve-era SUPERMAN films would be confusing and provoke unwanted nostalgia when the idea is to establish a clean break from the previous big-screen iteration (ala Nolan's BATMAN BEGINS). However, I am a bit concerned that Zimmer and his team will be scoring so many studio tentpoles over the next two years. Though the Zimmer gang surprised with their SHERLOCK HOLMES music, the composer's motifs, no matter how dressed up with unique instrumentation, are still instantly identifiable. I don't want any CRIMSON TIDE, PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN or THE DARK KNIGHT in my SUPERMAN. Then again, who else would you go to for something as huge as this? Michael Giacchino? Aleaxandre Desplat? There aren't too many options out there.
I'd like a good, rousing, major-key theme for the new SUPERMAN. Hans Zimmer's best work is typically minor key. Perhaps he'll work a variation on his uplifting main theme for BACKDRAFT - which felt overblown for Ron Howard's film, but would fit perfectly in a SUPERMAN movie.
Readers Talkback
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Helllloooo!
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P.S. First
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Those old Christopher Reeve movies were great, especially the first two.
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"Voyeur Supes Returns"
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Just kidding. I trust Hans Zimmer.
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Dec. 1, 2010, 1:17 p.m. CST
Watch this film punch every Supes film in the asshole.
by Stuntcock Mike
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Now just cast someone that looks like Superman and not like Chris Reeves.
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...from the Dark Knight soundtrack is one of the best themes from any soundtrack of the last ten years. You can't listen to that track and not think Zimmer could kick ass at a Superman theme. If you haven't heard it, listen... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0ynjjk2c7Y
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FACT
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glad theyre breaking away superman returns too much of a love letter
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...the more I wish we'd gotten the Tim Burton/Nick Cage Superman. At least that would have been an awesome WTF-level disaster.
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Any word yet?
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Go watch Bring It On again.
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Seriously, we're hearing about who's doing the score before we hear who's cast as big blue? C'mon Snyder tell us, it is Hammer isn't it?
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Remember Homer with the potato chips? Thisss time....Doh!
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No f-ing way.
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Since nobody saw it, it could pass for a ridiculous Superman theme. Actually, it would have fit the Cage/Burton Supes movie better.
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I'm divided about this...John Williams' score is untouchable, and if Snyder was doing this like the Christopher Reeve films (like Singer did his), not using that theme would be a bad move, but if this is truly a reboot ala Batman Begins, this could work; as much as Danny Elfman's Batman theme is iconic, I actually like Zimmer's score on Chris Nolan's Batman films. I'll reserve judgment for now.
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I've noticed a lot of the comments have linebreaks making them easier to read, rather than look like it's one long paragraph. Exactly how do you pull that off?
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Dec. 1, 2010, 1:30 p.m. CST
I'm scoring a film about a man who wears panties over tights
by AzulTool
I am a part of the great Men Wearing Panties Over Tights Zeitgeist of 2010.
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Is the only soundtrack that matters. Its the fucking puzzle that Zimmer's been trying to solve since he created it. Go listen to that thing, everything he's done...its in there. Batman's theme. Trumpet farts. The worlds greatest trailer music. Its a seminal score that is very overlooked. <P> PLANT THE SEED. <P> Well the sherlock stuff its not in there, but none the less.
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At the end of the sentence where you'd like to insert a blank line, typ < p >, but without the spaces between.<P>Works great!
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I can hum the epic Elfman theme right now. Regardless of the quality of the Nolan films I have no fucking clue what the score was like. Not memorable.
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Just trying that paragraph trick...<p>NIQ FLUK BWARNEY QUANDO FLOO!
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"Any nod to the Christopher Reeve-era SUPERMAN films would be confusing..." <p> Right. If I heard that music in a film without Reeve it would blow my mind and I would wonder what was going on? What...is this a remake? Is Reeve still alive? Who's in his coffin? <p> Just like when I hear the James Bond theme with different actors.
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I love "The Matrix" score so fucking much.
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Okay, I'm done. Carry on, campers.
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It doesn't really matter, does it? The film is doomed. As expected, Nolan has handed the baton over to Snyder; it's his film now. Nolan's concentrating on TDKR. <p> I am actually unexcited about a Superman film! Sad days. The Wolverine will end up a better film, and with a better score (Mansell).
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because Snyder is going to give us a conflicted, hostile-to-the-world Superman, who isn't the perfect moral icon the 1930's needed. Check out the D.C. game universe to see what you can expect.
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I get that they don't want to remind people of the Reeve films, but at the end of the day, I really don't think there are any composers out there today who can create an iconic theme like Williams.<br><br> Just have to look at Williams' body of work to see a vast number of iconic themes from Jaws to Star Wars. I say why not just ask him to come up with a new theme that doesn't reference his old one? Then let Zimmer loose scoring the rest of the action while weaving Williams' theme into it.<br><br> I really like Zimmer, I think he's made some incredible scores over the years, but I'm not 100% certain he's up to the task of creating an iconic theme. Is Bill Conti still working?
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were easy to improve on. I don't care if Zimmer has some good scores to his name, he's still no John Williams!<p>Good luck Zimmer, cause the Superman score is one of the most iconic in the world!
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Anyone read that DC story? That might make a decent film if the casting is right.<p>Actually, rather than the graphic novel, I'd recommend reading the paperback novel adaption by Elliot S. Maggin; it has a ton more depth than the comic could ever have.
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Was just about to post the same thing. Nolan's Bat films have great scores, but nowhere near as catchy as Elfman's or Williams's.
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But who the fuck is actually going to be starring in the damn movie?
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At least keeping a few familiar notes from an old theme, like a fanfare. Like the previously mentioned James Bond series includes parts of the theme. Granted, those aren't all really reboots, but the idea is the same. All Star Trek films, including the newest one included the familiar opening notes to the old theme despite new scores otherwise. I just feel like Williams' theme is so great, why not make at least the opening notes the "Superman cue" that everyone hears and knows it's Superman? And its not like anyone has ever confused Batman the animated series for a continuation of Burton's films.
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Dec. 1, 2010, 1:49 p.m. CST
I'M NOT A BIG DANNY ELFMAN FAN...BUT AT LEAST HIS THEMES STICK I
by Darth Busey
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The Williams piece is, IMO, the greatest single theme ever put to screen. Without it, I'm sorry, I just can't excited over the score for this picture. I'll reserve final judgement until I see what the finished product is, but Snyder seems to be trying too fucking hard to make Superman his when in reality Superman belongs to no one but himself. And to the goons bitching and moaning about all the comic movies being made, FUCK OFF already. Seriously, go watch the vagina monologues or Anime jerkoff porn, or whatever floats your boat because here's a little hint for personal happiness: Just because it's being made doesn't mean you have to watch it or even give it the time of day.
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Keep Margot Kidder as Lois Lane. Can we get the guy who played Jimmy back, bow tie and all? We can CGI Terrence Stamp's head on a stunt man and have Zod back! Fuck it, while we're at it let's just get Donner back to direct.
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Someone else brought up that Nolan's Batman movie don't have a very memorable score. But what action adventure movies these days DO have that? What's the main theme to Avatar, for example? Many of the classic genre movies even gave us memorable themes after just one movie. I guess this is starting to sound like, "Back in my day, we had special music! Not like the damn kids today!" But that kinda IS what I'm saying, I guess.
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Think to yourself about the theme for Jaws, orrrrr, Jurassic Park. Superman, Star Wars... Hum those themes out loud. Easy huh? Try doing that with anything from Hans Zimmer. Don't go and listen to it first. Right now, from memory. Betcha 99% of you can't do it. And THAT's what will set apart the true Superman from this reboot.
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Dec. 1, 2010, 1:53 p.m. CST
John Williams had his shot at greatness and FUCKING BLEW IT
by Stuntcock Mike
Just kidding, I love the man.
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This is silly. Hire John Williams to compose new music for a new Superman. Now THAT would be cool news. Unprecedented, too, I believe. Think of it - John Williams would have to re-think everything he did for Richard Donner's 1978 Superman movie and go in a different direction completely. It would be a wonderful exercise for him, and a potential treat for the audience. Let's face it - John Williams is the greatest living film composer. Probably the greatest of our lifetimes, and one of the top 5 best of all time. Hanz Zimmer? Not so much. He's a workhorse, not a genius.
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Love me some Hans Zimmer Backdraft/Iron Chef... and Batman. OH yeah.
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Dec. 1, 2010, 1:57 p.m. CST
The worst was John Ottman's raping of Williams' Superman theme.
by Snake Foreskin
Listening to him and Bryan Singer talk about how Ottman's updated theme improved upon Williams' theme was so embarrassing. Watching the movie was infuriating. Every time Ottman would screw with the theme just to make it "his own", I wanted to scream at the screen.
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...why can't he take over the running of this site for a week or so...we might actually get more than a sporadic decent editorial here...does anyone want to really see another superman movie? <p> As for Aronofsky doing Wolverine, that seems like it may be the kick up the arse these men-in-tights movies need.<p>
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Not that I don't understand where you're coming from, and I totally get your point, but I've got several cues from Gladiator embedded in my head.<p>Not trying to start something, just felt compelled to respond to your post. That is all.
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is his most recent work really up to the level of quality that people are putting forward? The score for the last Indy film was not very memorable at all. I haven't seen the Harry Potter films past Cauron's - maybe they are great?
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Sad to hear, but hope it'll be great anyway.
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"Keep an eye on Hammer’s career. The dude was fantastic in the movie. He has the charm, physique and square jaw… you’ll see this man as a superhero mark my words." <p>-Quint. <p>From his tsn review. <p>ON THIS SITE. <p>Care to try again?
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That score is Superman. I don't care if the movie isn't like the Reeeve ones. I DON'T WANT IT TO BE. But dear god use the score. <p> Christ, the only good thing about the prequels was when the words STAR WARS flashed onscreen and that fucking awesome music played. <p> This is a mistake unless he can make a better theme. Raise your hands if you think this theme will be better then Williams'.
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I would say a number of the pieces from the Star Wars prequels (ignoring the quality of the rest of the film) have been pretty good. Not as recent as Indy, but close enough.
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How many of you reading this TB have Williams' iconic theme in your head right now? Thank you.
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Zimmer should "compose" another single note theme, like he did for the Joker. Just pick a key on the piano and cash a paycheck.
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Fair enough, but he didn't exactly come up with anything iconic or remotely memorable with Batman, sooo.... why would this be any different?
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The Dark Knight theme is from Zimmer's Black Rain score. Once day that score will get its recognition.
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up with a reference to Star Wars??!! Fuck off for fuck sakes, there are other movies, get a life for christ sakes.
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but the score for Kick-Ass was outstanding. would love to hear a Superman score by Henry Jackman...
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Now I can enjoy a Snyder movie without playing the side game of " guess where Tyler stole this tune ".
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not 2005.
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Tell me what you like and watch me rip it to shreds. I like Superhero movies. I find they help me put up with the constant stream of bullshit issuing from peoples mouths and I don't appreciate yours. Nobody is forcing you to watch anything. You don't like it? Kindly fuck off.
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We're discussing memorable scores by John Williams. You really expect no one to bring up Star Wars?
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You know, the old guy that nobody wants in the role.
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...and we all know what a lousy week this has been.
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I was just advocating for at least keeping a bit of the theme, BUT... Sometimes it's no wonder when these film makers start deciding that the geeky fanboys should just be ignored. Look at the insane conflicting opinions we have about one subject...<p>"We love Donner's Superman!" Singer makes a movie, "It was too connected to Donner's Superman!" New movie is planned, completely ignoring Donner's Superman. "You should use the theme from Donner's Superman!" We're hard to figure out sometimes.
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above my head, I sing (or hum, or whatever) Williams' Superman theme. If that isn't meaningful, I don't know what is. Hanz Zimmer has yet to write a piece of music that makes me want to sing (or hum, or whatever) it to my son. In fact, few composers have had the ability to write such memorable music, whether it be for movies, theatre, symphony, opera, etc. It's a tremendous accomplishment to write music that is so ingrained in the psyche of popular culture. And his works, especially Superman, will stand the test of time.
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The thing about Hans Zimmer is that even though I've watched Dark Knight a thousand times I couldn't even begin to hum the main theme. I have no idea what it is. It doesn't suck or anything, it works in the movie, but it doesn't have the iconic feel that movies like Batman and Superman deserve. Meanwhile Williams' Superman score and Elfman's Batman score are still stuck in most people's heads. I think leaving that music out of Superman is like taking his cape away or taking the S off of his chest. That music belongs to Superman as much as anything else in his mythology. To act like we, as an audience, are so dumb that if we heard the Williams' theme we'd get confused is just insulting. Smallville uses it from time to time and there's never been a second where I confused Smallville for the 1978 Superman movie.
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Zimmerman is good, but don't fix something if it ain't broke. I am also not sold on them using Birthright even as a shell.
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a capella.
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too bad Poledoris is gone it would have been great for him too.
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I do like Zimmer most of the time, but I think this should have been Giacchino. Oh well. <p> But they better realize that EVERY Superman score worth its salt has 3 notes that you can sing "Supe-er-man!" to. If they don't get that much right, it's a failure.
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One, Gordon acting like Robin using the Batmobile. Two, Rachel being played by Cruise's wife. Three, no good theme or using the Burton theme. Hell, even the Animated show used it and its cheap. Wasted good money on Zimmerman on something iconic they already had. I don't want to dog the guy, because even if you can't hum the theme, it still does good scores. Yet, the more I hear about this project the less I am heartened by it.
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... and his scores are mediocre at best.<br> I know some you geeks would lick the sweat from Nolan ball sack if you could, but he can be hit or miss. You guys put way too much faith in him. I can't wait for the day when those who suck his dick,turn on him when he doesn't match your expectations.<br> This Superman movie has a tall hill to climb. And the next Batman movie isn't going to be as good as some of you think.
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is still one of my favorites and gets a permanent spot in my car CD player. i love that Soundtrack, and if he brings that same "humability" to Superman then I will be very happy.
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Ditto.
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I wouldn't know the Avatar score from a fucking Screwdriver song.
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If the internet existed in 1989 there no doubt would have been people saying, "Who is this Danny Elfman? The guy who did the Weird Science them song?! The only Batman theme is the Adam West 60s song!" <p> This isn't linked to Donner's films; why should it use their theme? Nolan's Batman isn't linked to Burton's, hence it has its own theme. Zimmer's theme probably won't be as good as William's, but it might actually fit the film!
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Best movie I have seen in years. Literally, YEARS. Sends shockwaves through me every time and I've watched it now, I'd say ten times. Part of the thrill is Zimmer's score. What a masterpiece. Thank you, Christopher Nolan.
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If you're just scoring a movie, anyone out there can do. Heck get the Goblins from Argento's movies if it floats your boat. However, if you want to create a theme or motif that's instantly identifiable with a character, that takes a bit more talent. Williams score for Superman struck gold. It was big, bright and bold with a majestic fanfare, qualities that the Superman character is supposed to have. There's a difference between scoring a movie and creating themes for characters.
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It's like CGI gohpers, y'know?
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and I'll be damned if I can remember anything from either score. God forbid you give a superhero a recognizable and iconic theme.
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Don't fix something that ain't broken.
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Biggest problem with almost all post-Burton superhero movies is NONE of them have particularly memorable themes (INCREDIBLES is only possible exception and BLACK SABBATH doesn't count as original for IRON MAN, though it was the best call possible). Jettisoning music that in 5 bars instantly links to that S icon for 80% of your audience is just financially stupid. Its been an integral part of the marketing of the character for around 30 years and no matter how good it may be a new Superman movie isn't art, its product. You don't drastically rebrand like that. Even STAR TREK kept its iconic theme as a part of the successful reboot to the tune of MONEY MONEY MONEY. Hell, just have him Zimmer-fy Williams' score a la "Je Ne Regrette Rien" in INCEPTION and all the fans and normal audience will be sold.
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I can't hear that score without thinking of this clip. <p> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =lwzY9nQEOY0
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Why is there even a question?
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This one <p> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =7CpbwvmXSNA
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Hans Zimmer seems the obvious choice, I think he's scored 50% of the big studio movies of the last decade. Still he's often very good especially with Nolan. Then again I think people underrate James Newton Howard, Zimmer's partner on the batman scores. Howard has been on top of his game ever since the Devil's Advocate(truly great score!) and has even managed to make the last couple of shyamalan films a little more watchable thanks to his great music. Also where are the forgotten guys like Alan Silvestri, James Horner and Trevor Jones? They used to do these kind of big summer movies and all did a great job most of the time. These days they all seem to be done either by Hans Zimmer(or one of his squad like harry Gregson-Williams, Klaus Badelt etc.) or Michael Giachinno. Don't get me wrong, both Zimmer(and squad) and Giachinno have done some of the best scores of the last couple of years. I'm just wondering why hardly anyone(spielberg, cameron and zemeckis aside) is using one of the guys from the old days anymore.
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Nuff said.
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Dec. 1, 2010, 3:12 p.m. CST
While I like Zimmer's stuff, I'd rather Giacchino for this...
by Cervantes
...but ideally I'd like to give the whole score over to 'TWO STEPS FROM HELL' who did the epic music for the 3rd theatrical trailer for J.J.'s 'Star Trek'. It was better than Giacchino's actual score.
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...but besides The Simpson's theme and the Batman theme, is there anything else instantly recognizable?<p> I remember liking his Midnight Run score, and the Pee Wee scores are fun, but certainly not iconic...
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The Superman Theme is one of the greatest pieces of cinema. And the theme was the best thing about the last movie's, at least when the movies shit the music alway's gave me enough joy to invest in the moment. Something that no matter what Hans comes up with will not be beaten.
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I hate that his generally broad, simplistic orchestration and huge brass/string sections are everywhere! Dark Knight is the sole exception.
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...but if Zimmer can give us an EPIC SCOPE, MAJESTIC SUPERMAN "FEEL" with his take, I don't give a flying fuck if he had monkeys working on it.
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"Huh by Phifty2 "Any nod to the Christopher Reeve-era SUPERMAN films would be confusing..." Right. If I heard that music in a film without Reeve it would blow my mind and I would wonder what was going on? What...is this a remake? Is Reeve still alive? Who's in his coffin? Just like when I hear the James Bond theme with different actors."
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I loved him on batman begins...
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It is indeed too bad Basil Poledouris is gone, he would have rocked!!! Still he was underrated as well. When given the change he could make huge epic scores like Conan the Barbarian(my personal favourite score ever), Starship Troopers and the hunt for red october. Sadly most of the time he got to do crap like crocodile dundee 3, free willy and mickey blue eyes. I always wondered what the Lord of the Rings would've been like if Peter Jackson would've given the scoring duties to Basil Poledouris.
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were ripped off from the theme to King's Row. Listen and you'll recognize it immediately. It's too blatant to be an accident. Also, the Stargate theme was taken almost note for note from the end of Shostakovich's Symphony No. 7. Check it out.
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Beetle Juice, Edward Scissorhands, Spider-Man, Men in Black, The Nightmare Before Christmas... <p> I concede that he's been on autopilot the last few years.
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The bond films follow essentially the exact same format movie after movie, year after year. Even when they "re-invent" every once and awhile like with Casino Royal, it's still essentially the same structure with a different actor and different locations. That's why the Broccolis or whatever their names are that own the Bond films turn down people like Spielberg and Tarantino because they don't want to make any real changes to the structure of Bond movies. Which is also why it feels natural for that same old iconic theme to follow the character around. If you want the new superman movie to follow the same structure as the originals (aka Superman Returns) then sure, it makes sense to keep the same theme. From all accounts though that's not the case, it's going to be totally different, so change the damn theme. Can you imagine how out of place it would have felt if Elfman's Batman theme had started popping up in Nolan's movies?
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While I'm sure Zimmer will create something great, I can't see anything from him topping the Williams theme. As others mentioned above, changing it is like changing the James Bond theme. Namely, YOU DON'T FUCKING DO IT.
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was really good. The rest of the score showed glimpses of his former greatness but unfortunately fell far short.
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I think the music sounded better when used on Iron Chef lol.
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was not a great movie. DUH!
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It's that nostalgia alone does not make a film great. Bring on the new theme! SR only reminded you of how much better the original was.
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you know it to be true.
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Who says you can't change it? They changed it for Batman and nobody cares anymore.
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Zimmer's fine, but I'd much rather see them go 180 degrees from where the Batman franchise went under Nolan. This is starting to look like they're going to try to fulfill that WB madate of taking its properties in a darker direction, and I just don't think that's really the kind of tone that fits Superman. We'll see but I'm not encouraged.
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I remember liking the score to Gladiator. :) ...I cannot for the life of me remember how any of it goes (and I must have watched that one, well, too many times).
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Ever notice that when the geeks are happy the movie turns out to be shit? It never pays to make them happy. Fuck 'em.
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There are plenty of composers! I think everyone agrees that Williams' theme is one of the all-time greats but I think it's time to move on and create something fresh. I'm not crazy about Zimmer, he has created some hacky scores in the past but he's also risen to the occasion. Thin Red Line is a great score and the Batman scores have great atmosphere, even if they lack a main theme. Personally, I'd like to hear what Michael Giacchino or Patrick Doyle (the Henry V soundtrack was majestic and moving) or even Mark Isham (his soundtrack for Miracle sounded pretty darn heroic) can do.
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Never been a huge Superman fan anyway except for Donner's films, but even I know Superman isn't supposed to be dark and brooding. But Nolan seems to have respect for characters' roots while at the same time putting his own spin on the material, so I'm gonna say I trust him. Snyder, not so much.
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But the news could be worse. I liked Zimmer's work in TDK, and seeing as he's working with Nolan again here (in some form) he'll hopefully be able to come up with something as iconic as that, yet not derivative of it.
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Tho I'd love to hear a Philip Glass score over the Fortress of Solitude...
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I guess the difference for me is that Bond has become almost solely a film property, and that theme is an absolute hallmark.. and it grounds the film in a familiarity that it really doesn't have otherwise. It's an essential part of Bond's iconography. I still think the Supes theme by Williams, while great, is not a critical part of his iconography. All of Superman's iconography comes from the comics, the visual. I will say, that it could become part of it, and perhaps Superman Returns ruined that. I don't have a problem with them abandoning the theme. As the original post said, it's no surprise give the filmmakers that are taking over.
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now it's Zimmer's turn. BTW I happened to be listening to Zimmer's brilliant Inception score when I read this. Definitely a composer that brings the big guns!
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And at the end you're left wondering if Superman just dreamed Krypton got destroyed
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He's all tapped out for superheroes though.
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His score to KUNG FU PANDA is excellent, and features "hummable themes." However, I find that Zimmer's work is best when he's incorporating foreign culture into his music, as with the Chinese-inspired PANDA and the African-influenced score to THE LION KING. In my opinion, his music for the Nolan Batman films has been tuneless noodling of the sort you find on most television dramas. As Jason Segal put it, "Dark, ominous tones." BLAAHHHH-blah.
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You're exactly right. If Nolan were directing, I'd think nothing of it, but I'm not excited about Snyder at all, and I think Nolan will give him a lot of free reign over the film itself. I think Nolan will be involved more on the front end / script / conceptual. Snyder is technically VERY skilled, and I think the movie will look cool... I just have my doubts about it being faithful in tone to the property.
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A Simple Plan or Sommersby. The sweeping main theme for Sommersby alone makes it a contender.
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But Batman Begins and The Dark Knight had AMAZING scores. I do not doubt his abilities. You quoted Pirates and Crimson Tide as two scores you don't want. But both of those were Bruckheimer productions (directors being Gore Verbinski and Tony Scott, two completely different styles than Zack Snyder). I felt Christopher Nolan's input on the score for both BB & TDK. You don't think Snyder will put his stamp on the new score for such an iconic character? Plus Zimmer's latest stuff has been amazing. Crimson Tide is like 20 years ago and Pirates' score worked well for the tone of the film (cheesy but awesome fun). Superman will be MUCH different. Zimmer is AWESOME!
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be exactly the same score he's been turning out for the last couple years. A couple notes or chords over and over again for 2 hrs. BORING. And really rhythmic, not melodic. He needs to listen to his own early work and re-visit some excitement...sadly, probably not gonna happen!
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Bad move. <br><br> Picking Zimmer was their second mistake, but an Elfman score would be too overbearing for Superman, and Jerry's dead so what are ya gonna do? <br><br> <br><br> I was once so looking forward to this, but with each announcement that interest is waning.
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The guy would probably come up with something new yet familiar to Superman, and his work on Harry Potter has been amazing (even if the movies themselves aren't all that).
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The guy has got a smoothing effect installed on his optic nerve. Watchmen left me cold, what with Doc Manhattan's digital lips. Superman needs to look real. Have the Extraordinary amongst the ordinary. Snyder's stuff is going to look horribly dated pretty soon. While not a fan of Nolan's Batman - its at least going to continue to look impressive. Snyder's stuff is going to look like a Photoshop disaster.
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Not sure if this tune will be "resurrected", but here's a link to an earlier attempt:<p> http://tinyurl.com/ycr88bz
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Well we'll inevitably find out. I just hope Snyder can keep the CGI toned down and not turn the film into a videogame. I liked DotD for what it was, hated 300, was meh on Watchmen and I think Sucker Punch looks like what a 12 year old Japanese boy sees when he closes his eyes. The biggest factor on this film will be, like you said, how much freedom Nolan gives Snyder. Depending on that the film could go pretty far in either direction.
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And btw I do like that "synth bullshit". For me it's reminiscent of Bladerunner.
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They already wrote the best score of the decade, can't see why they can't write one for Superman.
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But who's counting?
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Just listen to the second half of TDK cd. It outdoes Danny Elfman in every way, and I'm a pretty big Elfman fan.
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Armie Hammer would be fucking AWFUL. Looks more like Flash, if anything. Totally wrong for Superman. Plus, I don't know if you've noticed, but his name is ARMIE HAMMER. Give me a break.
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and claims that Begins and Dark Knight "have no theme" are bogus. It may not be the sweeping fanfare Elfman did, but I can hum you TONS of music from either Nolan Batmovie, no problem - plenty of melodies there, just listen. But, on topic: When I first saw Returns and Williams' badass score popped on with those familiar opening credits, life was really, really good (varying opinions of the film itself aside). I find it hard to believe anyone here didn't get goosebumps in those opening moments. I understand they want to keep this completely separate, and I don't argue with that. Williams' score is so iconic... and just so damned good. It's just going to be a bit of an uphill battle I think - not saying Zimmer's score won't be good on its own.
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Because at the end of Gladiator the emperor does something only a complete idiot would do.
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He looks like he'd star in the remake of Parker Lewis Can't Lose. You know that's coming some day.
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I think they're great in Nolan's flicks. They just haven't been memorable, iconic themes.
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But they'll probably cast someone like Portman. And if so, l'm officially out.
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to some bubba's Superman in prison. That's for sure.
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Bubba: *Unzips pants*
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is playing here and now and loud out my speakers. Humming along while i'm reading all your comments...... I'm not happy with Snyder helming and Zimmer scoring. But i'm willing to give the movie a fair chance. So i will reserve my rants or praise about the movie and the score AFTER i see and hear it.
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is hired as Assistant Scorer.
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Though hopefully Snyder will be able to get all those high flying aerial wire work stunts to work well without any interruptions and care for the safety of the performers. Maybe they should do what the circus does and have a mesh over the audience that will break the acrobat's fall.
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all the haters can suck a big horse cock twice.
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Back on io9.com it was revealed that this will be a film about Clark Kent will be doing aid work and not using his powers. It's not about Superman.
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Snyder is a stylist, not a film director.
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Realise y'all may rely on Amazon for crimbo gifts... but they just pulled Wikileaks off air due to White House bullying... not sure that has any relation to Superman... but Superman would prob fight for truth, justice and freedom of speach... General Zod would be proud of current US administration me thinks?
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The theme was the best thing in Returns, and Smallville HAS lifted bits of it.
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Great director - check<P>Great writter/producer - Check<P>Great composer - check<P>All we need now is a good cast, I'd love to see routh, but i know thats impossible, but Snyder and Nolan likely have the perfect candidate for the job..please just announce it soon, we are dying here
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Conan. Robocop. Starship Troopers. Nuff Said.
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Williams' is rich with charisma. Superman is a larger-than-life character with a personality that defines how a true hero is supposed to be. I find it hard to believe that anyone can create a score that is as captivating as Williams'. I'm all for a darker, grittier Superman just a long as the main character shines like HE IS SUPPOSED TO!
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That's all I have to say on the subject.
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and you know they will.
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Why do people like Hans Zimmer? And, let's be real, when they say 'Hans Zimmer' is scoring a film, that really means that the 30+ composers working at Remote Control are scoring a film. Hans is more of a businessman than he is a composer.
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I say this as a huge Star Wars, Indy, Jaws etc fan... Williams has never outdone his Superman Theme or score and the only one likely to ever do that is Williams himself. I loved Zimmers Holmes score last year, probably the best score of last years film, Michael Giacchino's Star Trek one being the second best. Zimmer does fine work but theres a reason everyone knows the Superman Theme straight away after the first couple of bars... John Williams wrote it, Hans Zimmer didn't.
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I was never much of a Zimmer fan, but the guy has produced some fantastic score. THAT SAID I really wish they had chosen someone else for Superman. The same composer for the batman films and superman film? That's just silly.
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no score? I wish a great action story would come out with no music. That would be interesting.
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Seriously, I read that exact quote a couple of weeks back. <p> As for the news itself, I'm all for a new score but the Superman March is iconic. It has transcended the film it originated in to become THE Superman theme. For Zimmer and Snyder to ignore it completely is like taking away Superman's ability to fly. It's that iconic. <p> As for Zimmer comparing it to Batman there's no comparison. The Elfman theme is fairly well known but never came close to achieving the kind of recognition of the Superman theme. <p> I'm also not fond of the rumored story but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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I really love some of his scores. THIN RED LINE and INCEPTION are brilanty scores. And the theme he invented for the joker in TDK has to be one of the most inspired musical moments in the last 20 years of film scoring. but otherwise, i have lots of criticism to give to Zimmer's scores. Most of the time, i downright hate them. So, it's with ambivalent feelings i receive this news. It can either work really well, or it can be one of the worst bulshit ever.
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<p>I couldn't hum the new "Batman Theme" from the movies, if there even is one. I think when the bat signal comes on screen there's like a burst of music, but beyond that, couldn't tell you. Whereas John Williams' music is instantly recognizable and will be around for all time. And for that matter, Elfman's Batman music: very recognizable and memorable.</p> <p>And that doesn't mean other composers shouldn't take a shot at it, but it seems modern film music is more about blending into the background 100% of the time. I know that the best film music is the music you don't know is playing, but for an opening theme you wan't something timeless, something that adds to the culture. And it seems current composers aren't really interested in that.</p> <p>When you think of Williams' music they are practically 50% of the movie experience. They are integral to the film. The film would be a shell without them.</p> <p>I'll withhold judgment though, but I'll assume at this point the new Superman theme will not really be a theme, but a few notes of music that play over the opening credits, interchangeable with any current modern score.</p>
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Something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISzK6e237II or This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjdzVbe-H8
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No Reeve, no Williams... I know DC has to keep the property on the screen but those films are so timeless it almost seems sacrilegious. Bryan Singer was pretty good about honoring the originals but he missed the tone. But I don't see how anything but the Chris Reeve/John Williams/Richard Donner could be a legit Superman movie. But I wish them luck trying to pull it off, they absolutely have their luck cut out for them. Probably even moreso than the upcoming Spidey reboot.
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Writes extemely iconic themes - James Newton Howard writes incredibly beautiful and complex scores, Howard Shore, Christopher Young - Hans Zimmer hit on his style years ago and with a few exceptions has been doing the same stuff over and over again. The same happened with James Horner - he went from a composer whose stuff I loved to someone I find as bland as oatmeal. <p>I wish Zimmer would stop getting all the work as his scores and his conglomorate are really fucking up the film scoring business.
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He'll be the next John Williams. If they don't get him this movie just won't work. Superman needs a grand majestic score, something in the new Batman films lacking.
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Dec. 1, 2010, 5:05 p.m. CST
Their trying way too hard for this new Superman movie!
by HollywoodHellraiser
In the end, I'm willing to bet box office gross will be "disappointing".
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my personal favourite.
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They have the rights to a great score and they are going with something new thet will NEVER be as good the Donner theme?~<p> bad move i say<p> btw the new batman movies score is forgetable compared to the classic Elfman '89 score no matter how you try to convince onesself.<p> FUCK WB!!!!!!!<p> hope this bombs!!
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But comparing the Superman theme with the theme from Burtons Batman film is fucking insane. Whilst it was good, it was nowhere near as iconic as the Superman theme. For over thirty years, when you think Superman, you will most likely start thinking that music in your head or at least humming it. Just keep the theme, but score the movie however you want.
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I think he's great. Second only to The John Williams.
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Gotta disagree. I think Begins' score is most definitely half the movie experience. It's one of the reason I still like BB better than TDK (just slightly, but I still like it more). The power in the music was mindblowing to me. The scene with Neeson and Bale dueling on the iced over lake has cues that are especially powerful. Music is my blood and soul though- even moreso than film- so I might get into it a little more than most movie-goers. I have such a difficult time understanding how people can't love the Begins score. Even though I was there for Batman 89 mania and was the biggest Batgeek ever back then (still have posters, collector cards, t-shirts- the whole deal), I still find the Begins score to be far, far superior to the Elfman score. But, to be fair, if we were judging them on how bold and loud their fanfare is, Elfman's would win.
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His father did some great stuff, to say the least. Joel Goldsmith did the theme to Stargate Atlantis. His work with choirs is quite good; the the Stargate Atlantis theme, the choir starts about 30 seconds into it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trWzoj7cHkU&feature=fvw
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Dec. 1, 2010, 5:33 p.m. CST
SMALLVILLE was forced to stop using the Willam's score, FORCED.
by Mike_D
due to copyright shit from the company who runs Williams's music. They were forced to create they're own theme (which we've been hearing snippets from here and there this season).
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If you don't want the theme or the blue and red tights, just change the names, call it an original property and enjoy not having to stare the profits with the estates of Siegel and Shuster. <p> It worked for James Bond/Jason Bourne.
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Ahh, well, happy with Zimmer :) The Batman scores are great. Don't mention James Horner, even Avatar is a recycle job... much as I enjoy parts of it.
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My cards are now on the table and what a shitty, one-leg-longer-than-all-the-others, IKEA special this table is going to fucking be. You know why its called the Superman theme, because for 32 years its been Superman's theme tune. Changing the music is first solid nail in the coffin, soon to be followed by others. This movie and its score will be entertaining for its duration, then forgotten before the year is out. Throwing out the baby with the bath water isnt going to improve fuck all. This rebooting caper is a trolley full of hot wank, this situation with Superman is exactly the same as with the Hulk movies. The first Hulk movie is seen as not delivering the goods, (ie, not enough protracted scenes of cgi things hitting each other), so whats the first thing that we are promised about the The Incredible Hulk, a super villain. I remember reading on this site the studio announcements promising, dont worry the Abominations in it, so you'll get your literal "punch-out ending". The studio was so fucking keen to get to said CGI dust up it butchered the middle of the movie and took out, as i understand it, much character and plot development. Now here we are with Superman, despite Bryan Singer promising to go "Wrath of Khan" on the sequel, we've got another one off superhero movie that false started and never went anywhere. Case in point, fucking Spiderman, 3 years, 3 fucking years after the last one, we're rebooting again. FOR FUCKS SAKE WHY ? oh well another studios on the ball now so its a pure ego thing. Sam Raimi got the franchise up and running and now we have to start all over again. Instead of letting petty squabbles and niggles get in the way, have the fucking balls to see these things through.
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Zimmer excels at writing tedious noise time after time, and the only reason the Dark Knight and Batman Begin are listenable at all is because James Newton Howard was involved. All the cool themes were his. Zimmer has come up with one acceptably cool them in his career and that's Journey To The Line. After that, it's all just variations of his unique style of banging his head on his keyboard. The Rock, Crimson Tide, Blackhawk Down, Gladiator, the list goes on and on... I can't imagine a worse composer for the job of scoring Superman. Really, even one of the current noise-making hacks like Brian Tyler or Tyler Bates would've been better.
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Considering how long he's worked as a composer Zimmer seems to specialise in music which hits the spot at the time but is ultimately soul-less. Yes he Re-invented Batman but who remebers Zimmers theme. If Gladiator is his most successful score it is thanks Lisa Gerrard as the only heart and soul of his wall of sound. It's no Spartacus and Zimmer is no Alex North. then again Snyder is no Kubrick.
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Dec. 1, 2010, 5:50 p.m. CST
I agree in principle, with the John Williams proponents...
by jimmy rabbitte
He really is the best, at putting a rousing stamp on a film, with his musical scores. The themes he has composed, over the years are always instantly recognizable; and they never fail to get the blood pumping, even when you are hearing the music without the images.<p> Hans Zimmer is definitely capable; but I find any one of his film scores to be completely indistinguishable from another. John Williams has composed some of the most recognizable film music of all time... *all time*.<p> Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Indiana Jones, Superman... the man's work is, by itself, the Mount Rushmore of film scoring. I don't mind that Snyder is going to go a different route. Even if they were going to hire John Williams, it would be wise to compose an entirely new theme. This a whole different project, so it should have its' own distinct elements and styles.
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...would have loved to have heard what he might have done for a Supes film.
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are sinking faster than a speeding bullet. No Routh (and I bet the only other acceptable actor, Hammer, will not get it), no iconic signature theme, and the biggest, most worthless hack in the business since Bay or Ratner to direct it. Epic Fail.
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Dec. 1, 2010, 6 p.m. CST
ENNIO MORRICONE, JOHN WILLIAMS, JERRY GOLDSMITH, BERNARD HERRMAN
by Darth Busey
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I cant believe he gets so much work! He invokes much of same motifs and minimalist themes in just about every contemporary score he does! I realize that Batman Begins was a redefinition of the cinematic Batman, and Danny Elfman's score just wouldn't fit with what Nolan wanted to do, but I'll take the Elfman score over Zimmer's any day of the fuckin week! Zimmer's just wrong for Superman. I wasn't thrilled with Giachino's score for Star Trek, but I think he's done some good recent scores for films like the Incredibles- he's got what it takes to score a superhero film. With so many great composers out there- including Williams (he's not dead!)- even possibly Elfman, there has to be another way!
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Considering that the decision to use the Superman title was one of the few things Singer got 100% correct, this feels like Snyder stacking the deck against himself before the first hand is even dealt.
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Cant agree more with you on Black Rain. Eevery Zimmer song seems to come from that, minus the MIDI sample style on Black Rain. Its mega overlooked I love it, same with Drop Zone.
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Make a new - really GOOD tv live action series. Set it in the 1930's. Make it black and white with only the Superman character in color.<br><br>Lots more people wold see a television program, which in turn would sell a lot more toys. How many people on this forum got into comics/super heroes because of a character/team they saw on television, either live action or animated? A large percentage, I'd wager.<br><br>The objective of these comic book movies is to sell merchandise. Remember, movies make millions of $, merchandise makes BILLIONS of $.<br><br>Television is really an un-tapped market for these tent-pole characters. It will be interesting to see how The Hulk and Wonder Woman perform as television series.
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It doesn't say Superman to me.
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In a wildly off-topic, blazed rant by a long term reader and first time poster, this has to be one of the most proficient articles written for this site in many years. Beaks I commend you sir for constructing a rational, thoughtful and well researched response to what is quite a major news arrival. Well played Rant done
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I heard a weird rumor that Nick-Glennie Smith's Rock score wasnt up to stanards so they got Zimmer to redo it and he got Steve Jablonsky, Klaus Badelt and Newton Howard that were part of media Ventures to redo it. Heard orginal, liked it more. End of TDK sounds exactly like 'Am I not merciful' from Gladiator.
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They need to do a score. Favorite song theyve done is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =2kxJ7UjDqO4 prob best song by em ever!
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Clark Kent, Daily Planet's Journalist and Mild Mannered Reporter is sent to West Africa with Jim and Louis and a few other too do a cover story on a political protest in West Africa. Our Daily team is kidnapped. One of them is killed and the rest are held hostage. The kidnappers demand the political outcome to be overturned. Clark cant bear to to stand by and mindlessly watch this violence anymore. So he fights back. He never did the Superman routine before this. This is the event that makes him decide to act. No costume, more of a disguise, no humor- all serious tone. I don't know how I feel about it to be honest, but this is the rumor circulating the interwebs. One things for sure.It would seem awful weird to have Clark be there and then Superman shows up, beats down the bad guys and everyone goes back home to Metropolis. with Superman showing up in M'City in the sequel, with no one in metropolis finding this the least bit strange. <P> I think we've all wondered many times before why Superman didn't stop all the wars or go to other countries an enforce peace and democracy.
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damn typo
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but the Batman score rocked. Charge of the Batmobile still gets me (I like to drive with it sometimes). Zimmer's Batman scores were decent, but nothing awe-inspiring.<p>Short end, find a way to throw a hint of Williams' theme in there. Just a hint.
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gvcool2, long term reader and your first post was a total brown nose job on Beaks?!<p> Get your face out of his anus and start talking sense like old safgwgherh who posted above you.
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Dec. 1, 2010, 6:28 p.m. CST
Why get rid of the Superman theme when it can't be topped?
by Thanos0145
Zimmer won't even come close.
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Why do it to Superman? The Superman theme is iconic, and a Superman movie will be a lesser film without it.
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Since no composer can outdo Williams' fantastic theme, then why not do what Kubrick did and use a classical theme to represent Superman? Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man or Holst's Mars: the Bringer of War or something along those lines.
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If Zimmer can come up with a theme that is only as many degrees away from Williams as Williams was from Leon Klatzkin, it'll be fine.
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Williams' SUPERMAN theme is as crucial to the character as the fucking cape. STUPID STUPID STUPID. <p> I don't want to see a Superman film without that uplifting score.
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Dec. 1, 2010, 6:41 p.m. CST
Too bad Williams' Superman score owns all our fucking lives.....
by axelfoley
Because it's top 3 best cinematic score ever invented. But guys, The Dark Knight theme is pretty cool. Just because it's not Tim Burton-y doesn't make it shit. I liked the Dark Knight theme personally. What's so forgettable about it. Not in the same league as some of the more epic ones out there, no question but not the putrid piece of shit several of you have nonchalantly purported it to be. Sorry. And one user said it's unusual that they pick the composer before casting the lead. This isn't uncommon practice. And Armie Hammer is nothing special. He looks NOTHING like Superman. Unless Superman is some Jewish kid who probably gets hit on by a lot of sorority girls on Spring Break.
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is on the soundtrack.
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Boring music. Boring ideas. Most overrated composer working. No contest. And he has his little trolls do most of the work anyway. Get somebody with some real chops, like Silvestri, Bruce Broughton, Don Davis or Howard Shore. While I respect Zimmer's work, his "sound" is gentrifying film music. Too big, too over-produced, too derivative. This is a studio choice. Them hitting the "safe" button. I'm sure it won't be a bad score, but it won't be iconic. I mean, Dark Knight doesn't really have a theme - just a vibe.
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2 minutes in, and stick with it, hear anything you recall? Just a hint. I am finding lots of original influence songs like these over the past few years of listening to classical tunes. I Never thought the 89 theme could be improved or followed with something all it's own. The Molossus theme is just as time-proof and powerful.
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Alexandre Desplat has been on a roll lately, and his score for Hostage was pretty epic. Howard Shore wouldn't be terrible. Marc Streitenfeld is pretty good for a Zimmer assistant, but Zimmer will just bring one the three scores he always does (probably the Pirates of The Caribbean "adventure" one). Bleh.
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They have worked together before. Kind of confused that they wont team up again for this movie.
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I get it not wanting Zimmer to be the sound of every hero film coming out of hollywood but Williams just as over used and a lot of his stuff (as great as it is) sounds alike. You can barely tell the difference between the SUPERMAN theme and STAR WARS. It's like they are different pieces from the same song. The Joker theme was brilliant. Can't wait to hear what Zim-Zimmer does for the Man of Steel.
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Dec. 1, 2010, 7:03 p.m. CST
Asking Williams a different score for the same character would h
by Thomas_Silane
Zimmer is so boringly obvious for a Nolan prod. I hoped at least someone like John Powell whose "How to train your Dragon" was a real symphonic pleasure.
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That is all.
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...cribbed from
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...cribbed from
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Dec. 1, 2010, 7:10 p.m. CST
the movie might be enjoyable but there is no way he's gonna out
by NorthTronic
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Please redesign the fucking website to include a fucking 'EDIT' button for those of us who are keyboard challenged!
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It could work!
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...I'd like to see them use the Williams theme over the closing credits. That way they can give a nod to the first films and yet still have Zimmer's soundtrack stand on it's own.
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The theme is great, and iconic. And it is also probably the best thing about the films which feature them (I admit I haven't seen all of them, notably Singer's film, nor have I seen Donner's "director's cut"). The original cut of the first film was pretty bad and the music almost single handedly gave it something worth remembering. <br><br>But even if the music has become more iconic than the films themselves, it's still associated with the films, and the makers of this new one should be trying to transcend everything accomplished in the previous films and make it their own. So it's not surprising that they'd go in a different direction with the theme.<br><br>I'm not a big Zimmer fan though. He's competent and he's not going to ruin any movie he works on, but he's not going to create anything that would transcend the film and become iconic on it's own that Williams can. <br><br>Personally, the guy I'd like to see take a crack at a film like this, and it's truly amazing that no one amongst the collection of idiots in Hollywood has thought of hiring this guy for a big movie yet... Bear McCreary. I don't think Zimmer will create anything for Superman that is terribly distinguishable from his Batman scores or really most of his work. McCreary is fresh and brilliant and could really give a Superman film the pop that the younger Williams gave films in the 70's and early 80's.
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Where am I going with this? Recast Hulk 3 fucking times? Really...... Recast Howard Stark. Really. DC has SOME concept of continuity if they're going to use Nolan and Zimmer again. Oh and Snyder. It's small, but some times the small things add up.
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His 'Atlantis' theme could be the theme for a JLA film anyday.
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I'm a firm believer that WB needs to have a new theme for this new Superman movie, but if the score and "main theme" are going to be anything like the forgettable Batman Begins/TDK scores, then... no thank you.
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He deserves to be kicked in the balls for that alone.
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Any hopes I had that Snyder's visual histrionics might be somehow dignified by a rousing, classical score just right flew out the window. <p>Ugh.
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I like Zimmer, but he's a little too over the top sometimes for my tastes. Shore is more subtle.
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Or like, you know. A forum.
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I love the original theme music for the 1989 "BATMAN" but Zimmer's end titles for "Batman Begins." is my favorite Batman theme of all time.<br /> <br /> After the abortion that was "Superman Returns" I'm glad they're doing a full redux of the series. I can't wait to hear Zimmer's new theme. But I don't think Zak Snyder can hold a candle to Christopher Nolan as filmmakers go. He's solid but he's never made a great movie. Personally, I wish they'd hire David Fincher to direct a Superman movie. I want to see a really bleak take on The Man of Steel.
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is the most realistic movie about a Baldwin brother ever made.
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- the film soundtrack will be packed to the gills with pop songs used in the most inappropriate or thuddingly literal way possible. <p>Oh, well.
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Dec. 1, 2010, 8:07 p.m. CST
Snyder could pull off Superman, they just need a good writer..
by Sardonic
Has the writer for this been mentioned at all yet? Please sweet got don't let it be the Kurtzman/Orci fuckers. They make me want to slit my wrists vertically and it seems like the always get the really big-name stuff AND IT ALWAYS SUCKS BALLS.
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Search your heart, you know it to be true.
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Dec. 1, 2010, 8:32 p.m. CST
Ken Thorne or no one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Bob Cryptonight
Heh. Just kidding...
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You guys are real dorks!! Can't remember the theme from the Dark Knight? What about the screeching violins when Joker appears.. remember that? dumbasses
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Forget the John Williams score. Let's use the score from the old 50's TV show!! That's iconic. And for people even older than some of you are, that represents a real Superman theme. You guys are fucking idiots.
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FUCK why didn't anyone mention that theme song. That and Harrys Potter and Saw are the only movies with real name brand recognition in their themes. To a lesser extent Requiem.
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The problem with most scores today is that they are used to fill up space, kill the silence with noise. Forgettable at that. Rarely if ever anymore do we get themes, motifs, etc outside of the recent Star Wars and Lord of the Rings that is.
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is fucked in the head!!!!
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The first song on the soundtrack. "Why so serious?" That is cool, creative composing that perfectly captures the feeling of the Joker in that movie. Imagine what Zimmer could do with a Luther or Braniac theme? Maybe we'd actually get some mood and sense of menace with a superman villian for once. We don't need the same old "Jurrasic Star Jaws Warsy" John Williams stuff we've heard for thrity years. I love John Williams and know that in the grand scheme he's better than Zimmer, but nothing will ever be as iconic as the williams score. Go in a new direction. And why is everyone so hung up on having a "humable" superman theme. Who the fuck cares a about humable? That's what my girlfriend's for.
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His recent work for the Star Wars prequels was to fill in for the long voids of logical storytelling and excitement. And his work for Crystal Skull was to distract from the sheer stupidity and hammer into your head that "this is an Indy movie...this is an Indy movie"
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is that all his stuff sounds alike. and it's too dark. Superman in the end is about hope, not dispair.
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FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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But yes, I don't think anybody is going to argue that he reached his creative apex 30 years ago.
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and based in a world that tries for a gritty realism yet you can hear a certain comicbook overtone pop up now and again. Superman's new music should be an injection of complete audacity into Batman's world. His score should shatter Batman's world and grind against it, dissolving it at the edges and fraying it wherever he passes. His music should be sci/fantasy/god-like hope and promise of miracles against any odds. He just won't blend with batman's world and his music should be jarring as fuck in the same way batman's world will be rocked by his existence. Now batman will realize his place in the grand scheme. When he is confronted by something utterly alien and beyond his experience- A being who is everything he tries to be. A true super hero. If they do this right and eventually get these guys together in the same movie it will elevate the Nolan batman films into true comicbook origin tales that slowly built to a payoff worthy of the dreams of arcades(ar-cade-eez)
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from Conan the Barbarian with WHAM! sprinkled here and there.
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CGI muscles/suit and no Williams score. It is going to be shit. C'mon, do we need this? No!
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The most memorable theme he's composed is the PotC theme, and that was anything but original.
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preface: i love the music of john williams. i was watching superman and star wars before i could even fully comprehend the plot. as a child, i used a tape recorder to make a crappy tape of the williams superman theme by sticking it close to the television speaker as the movie played.<p>that said, i say the right score for the movie. elfman's music would not have fit the new batman films and i'm sure it will be a similar story in regards to how appropriate williams theme would be for the new superman film.<p>the key word there is: appropriate. this is not about williams theme being "topped". this is about the film having an identity that transcends the threat of becoming just another notch in the series.<p>look at the james bond series, since that theme keeps getting brought up..the newest bond films might be taking some steps in the right direction, but when's the last time we had a truly memorable bond film? something that was embraced and celebrated? and why not? because those movies do not set themselves apart from each other in the ways that matter.<p>what does the opposite look (and sound) like? the dark knight and batman begins are the most obvious examples.<p>and what composer with any faith in their own work would want to simply rehash another composers work? yeah...it's been done..tyler bates and john ottman spring to mind. are these guys particularly good?<p>this tenacious clinging to themes that are able to be readily hummed is steeped in the false comforts of blind nostalgia and in-the-box thinking. in this case as with many others, what fans want and need are not the same thing.<p>why not set this film apart in as many ways as it can without betraying the characters?<p>i'm certainly not the biggest zimmer fan...in fact i've only really liked his batman scores and inception. but his theme for the joker proved him to be a composer with a gift for invention.<p>i urge you to go to youtube and look up "dream is collapsing". when i was leaving the theatre after watching inception, that music playing over the end credits had me extremely amped. i'm not saying his superman score should sound exactly like that, but it definitely sold me on his potential. and who says he won't do a memorable theme? however, the most important thing is that the music works with the film!<p>oh, and i'll count myself among those that could easily whistle or hum the theme from TDK. it plays very clearly in the end credits and is featured heavily in the track "like a dog chasing cars". it is minimalistic, yes..but this, for me, is not a bad thing at all.<p>for this movie to be lasting, it needs to set itself apart..only sequels get away with not doing this..and even then how many part 3s or beyond are memorable? i want a film that stands on it's own that has a compelling story to tell about a character that i love. i don't want a brand name. the right score for the movie..<p>however...if it weren't already a done deal...i would love to hear elliot goldenthal take on superman.
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Shaquille O'Neal as KAZAAM! The Rapping Genie do the soundtrack? (With apologies to Colonel A! I couldn't wait for it anymore!)
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... "Dream Is Collapsing" from the inception score - starting at 34 seconds into it - except for the electric guitar in the beginning, that sounds like something i would want to hear in a superman movie by Nolan - epic, foreboding and memorable - it builds and builds - thunderous and exciting - listen to it and imagine Superman fighting Darkseid - war of the gods - super hero music in the grand order - Zimmer will do a fine job
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Shaquille O'Neal as KAZAAM! the rapping genie would be a bold choice. Don't fake the funk on the nasty dunk.
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Nolan's overseeing it, with Goyer writing. It's supposed to tell the oh so thrilling tale of Clark Kent as a traveling journalist who must decide if he wants to lead the life of a mere mortal or be the planet's savior. <br><br> Nolan is such a fucking bore. That is not moving the franchise forward. We know what Kent's ultimate decision will be, we know these characters, regardless if it's a reboot or not, we do not need another origin story unless it really switches up the mythos to warrant it. This doesn't.
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<p>Sicuv Uyall--Uh, yeah we do remember the Joker theme. Because it was so weird. But yes, that is the most memorable part of the Batman score: the Joker theme, which is basically one note on a cello trying to mimic the sound of fingernails on a chalkboard. Not exactly a haunting theme.</p> <p>I don't see why memorable music has to be upbeat or over the top. Think of Bernard Herrmann, he just understood melody. A few well placed notes is all it takes to make something stick in your head. The Batman music might be technically proficient but there's just nothing in it other than the Joker gimmick that I can imagine in my mind. Williams and Hermmann's work though, I couldn't get out of my head if I wanted to.
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He's good too. Probably not Superman material but he's a great composer/pop musician. Check out his Little Buddha score.
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as the Waynes approach Wayne Enterprises in the monorail. It's beautiful, and completely lifts the material beyond "comic book movie".
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at any superhero film. There will be Blood had a fantastic score.
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Since when is a punch to the asshole a pleasurable experience?
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i.e. the only piece of actual MUSIC is either Nolan Batman film.
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I thought they collaborated on the entire score.
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Are you joking? You realize that AICN has had a forum for several years, right? It's called the Zone, and there's a link to it above up there. It's far better than the talkbacks anyway.
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But we're stuck with Zimmer. What a 'by the numbers' development. Check out SAE (Screen Archives Entertainment) has Banos bloody BRILLIANT score for 'The Machinist' on sale for ten bucks. When the hell will Hollywood realize Roque Banos is the best composer working in films today? (Now that we've lost Basil and Jerry and J.W. is retired).
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Dec. 1, 2010, 11:50 p.m. CST
Shouldn't he make the movie first before he worries
by nobodycallsmcflyachicken
about the musical score, 1 step a t a time there.
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Is like the greatest Zimmer score he didn't make?
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Dec. 2, 2010, 12:10 a.m. CST
RE-INVENT GREATNESS? YEAH, THAT USUALLY WORKS OUT WELL.
by Missing Dink
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It's the first song on God's heavenly playlist and Chuck Norris' workout music.
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to make a Superman movie. They want to make a Batman-with-awesome-powers movie.
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"These guys don't want to make a Superman movie. They want to make a Batman-with-awesome-powers movie."<p>i'm intrigued..<p>can you tell us what your source is on this information?
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in 10 years. I can't see it. Maybe he'll prove me wrong. Williams theme is still loved more than 30 years on now. I like it better than Star Wars, the build, the epic glory of it when it bursts up into the sky. They should do what Abrams did in Star Trek and use the Williams theme at the end. They will score big points that way, too.
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Sounds very generic.
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quite dramatic within the film, yes. But sitting hear, I can't hum a note, while I can hum several Elfman Batman pieces, though probably because Shirley Walker adapted them so well for Batman the Animated Series and the Adventures of Batman and Robin (my son likes the latter theme best).
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Dec. 2, 2010, 1:38 a.m. CST
I don't think people here even have a clue who Hans Zimmer is.
by The_Genteel_Gentile
One of the most influential, innovative and versatile film composers of all time. And THE most of the past 25 years. <p> Zimmer has repeatedly knocked it out of the park working within every single classical film genre there is. Whether it be Driving Mrs. Daisy, Rain Man, Backdraft, Black Rain, Thelma & Louise, True Romance, The Rock, Cool Runnings, The Lion King, Days Of Thunder, Regarding Henry, Crimson Tide, As Good As it Gets, Gladiator, The Preacher's Wife, The Last Days, The Then Red Line, The Weather Man, The Pledge, The Fan, Spanglish, Tears of The Sun, Radio Flyer, The Ring, Pirates Of the Caribbean, Prince Of Egypt, The Holiday, Pearl Harbor, A League Of Their Own, The Last Samurai, Matchstick Men, Hannibal, Black Hawk Down, The DaVini Code, The Dark Knight, Kung Fu Panda, Sherlock Holmes, Inception or Megamind. <p>Even John Williams himself ripped off Hans Zimmer's Thin Red Line score for Revenge of The Sith. <p> Sure people think they know Zimmer because of his many Media Ventures/Remote Control protege composers and clones. The fact that Zimmer's so emulated just cements his importance. But Zimmer is also constantly experimenting, pushing boundaries and carving out ever expanding interesting new avenues for film music. No other mainstream composer has been as avant-garde since the golden era of Morricone and Goldsmith. <p> Michael Giacchino has quickly become the most vastly overrated composer working today. He's good, not get me wrong. But the likes of Giacchino will never touch the true artistry of Zimmer. Also for those who dismiss Zimmer because of his unorthodox methods of utilizing apprentice composers within his thinktank, you all should know many composers, and Giacchino in particular, do the exact same thing. The only difference is Zimmer embraces their contributions rather than hide them away and gives his guys ample credit that will lead to sustaining careers in their own right. That's why there's so many additional composers on the credits for any Zimmer CD, it's because his method of writing music is inclusive and conductive to a kind of "band" environment. Rather than be the classical composer who sits and writes out his score in solitude, Zimmer invites spitballing and improvisation while watching the actual film. This is, if anything, a purer way to approach film composition and should not be frowned upon but admired. But make no mistake Zimmer is Brian Wilson to Remote Control's Beach Boys. The Genius and driving force of creativity. <p>And Daft Punk is a joke, they are not emotionally engaged visual storytellers. They have not studied and do not know how to add dimention by playing counterpoint to action, how to underline and punchuate, when to back off in favor of silence, the subtlety of character dynamics, when and how to be stirring and poignant, to encapsulate the internal nuance, intricacies and motivations of character and plot, they are not true film composers. Niether is Trent Reznor or Johnny Greenwood or Peter Gabriel or Explosions In The Sky or even Phillip Glass. They're great musicians no doubt about it, but they're not great musical storytellers for film. Their music just happends to be fantastic but it's all essentially specially written source music that can be layed anywhere to fit any scene. No different than an outright needle-drop. <p> Now, all that said - For Superman - I would have gone with James Newton Howard. Or a James Horner, David Arnold, Alan Silvestri or John Debney. Or how about even throwing a bone to an underrated composer like Randy Edelman, Elliot Goldenthal, Mark Mancina, Edward Shearmur, Cliff Eidelman or Rachel Portman. Howard Shore I don't actually see for this, I mean really LOTR's was sort of a fluke for him. Danny Elfman has exhausted his comic book creditials. But yeah, Giacchino would make sense, but frankly I'm already tired of him and even more weary that he's got so many big projects lined up. Oh how I yearned for a Thomas Newman John Carter Of Mars! <p>But I'm confident Zimmer will be one of the main attractions of this Superman anyway and I'm definitely more intrigued to hear what he'll do than any of those more obvious choices.
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Dec. 2, 2010, 1:42 a.m. CST
SmokingRobot - You realise Roque Banos was aping Herrmann right?
by The_Genteel_Gentile
The Machinist is totally and purposefully derivitive of Bernard Herrmann's classic Hitchcock scores. I don't know why you think that's brilliant. But I too did dig the Machinist score. Frankly Brian Tyler did a better variation on the Herrmann homage for Frailty though.
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Imo. Of course.
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You sort of have to beat-box 'em. There really percussion based atmospheric droning with slow builds. Gloriously so though.
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and it's The thin red line, a masterpiece. The rest he has done is NOTHING compared to the best works of Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams, Elliot Goldenthal (I would have loved to hear a Goldental Superman!), John Barry, Danny Elfman and a few others. Hollywood needs to STOP using that guy and his robotic employees.
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This Superman movie will just be alright, it'll just about manage ok and that is NOT a good thing at all. We all know this, you'll walk out and say, "that was pretty good" and the first thing to spring to mind will be the most fancy action sequence they spent the most money on. There is no debate or question over the music Zimmer will write, its just going be a footnote to Williams score, thats a fact, be honest, its just a stone cold fact. The Movie will make money, it'll do ok, because it will be marketed like a fucker, but Dark Knight kind of money, bollocks. Donner's Superman is lodged in the public psyche as THE Superman. This new one will obviously have much better FX, but that counts for shit now, the xbox generation have seen it all, the most staggering effects that are dismissed out of hand now, the public have caught that act. "You wont give a fuck a man can fly because you can see it done just as well on tv adverts now". People were blown away in 78 by the original because it was made on the cusp of a new age of special effects, 30 years on and the battle between the Kryptonian villains and Superman in II is still the bench mark. Spatially you can tell whats happening, its paced well and it utilitses the setting and things within it the way no superhero movie has come close to since. It doesnt matter what villain they use (but the pretty much constant discussion of General Zod, even by people who werent alive when Superman II was out, i think illustrates my point to perfection), the music is irrelivant now, they're changing it is all you need to know, so thats a fail, the casting is a dead issue, Chris Reeve nailed it, he was the last word, because he perfectly personified the clean cut good guy, just enough underlying irony, but not enough to be cynical and with enough warmth and humour to balance it. That kind of character is dead today. The first two Superman movies were Warners Star Wars back in the day (the first was one was their direct answer to Star Wars) and they are woefully underestimating the lasting legacy of those films here. Theres only two reasons to repeat, to improve or to make more money and we know it aint the first one. Spiderman has been done as well as it can be in 2002, Batman likewise in 2008, its just the way it is that Superman was in 1978, stop wasting your time and ours, grabbing for the cash and do something fucking original.
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I will continue my boycott of all Superman reboots, remakes, rehashes, reinventions and regurgitations. That at least will signify they have managed to progressed the storyline past the stage of origin infancy.<p> But since I doubt that will ever happen, I'll save my money for progressive storylines like the Potter flicks -- see, pro-gres-sion not re-gres-sion.
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That's a total cop out. Tell me HOW Armie Hammer doesn't look like Superman, like how Joe Manganeillo doesn't look like Superman because Joe M has a busted nose. Oh, and Armie Hammer having a slightly wacky name means nothing unless you're 12 or less.
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I honestly have no recollection of the theme from the Burton/Douchebag movies. Maybe if I heard it, I would go "Oh yeah" but otherwise the 60's TV show theme is the most iconic Batman theme. I also remember the animated series theme.<p><p>On the other hand, the Superman theme is up there with Star Wars as truly iconic. If the original is not used at all, it will be weird.
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I heard a rumor Intergang makes an appearance which is the start of Darkseid's arc. Plus they're doing Brainiac. Progressive enough?
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Barring a perfect unknown there is no better choice. You know this to be true.
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must not have been that good then. btw the backdraft score is mehh also!
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... are pretty forgettable affairs. This will never live up to John Williams iconic score. The best thing about 'Superman Returns' was the use of the original score.
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His cookie cutter scores work in certain films but god damn it il take sweeping orchestration over his synth simplicity. No one and I mean NO FUCKING ONE can even compare Williams to Zimmer in the same way. Williams is pure genius. How many movies are successful because of the music? 90 % of the time only John Williams films. How well would Home Alone have done with out his genius? I mean really? Or Jaws? How much did that theme contribute to that movies success? Sure it's a great fucking film but the music just elevates it to another level. Williams scores almost transcend the movies themselvs. Can Zimmer do that? No. But few composers can. Is he capable of some decent work from time to time? Definatley. But how can they go from Williams to Zimmer? Is he the death of film music since every tentpole blockbuster seems to have his stamp and i can't recall the last film score to really take my breathe away. Film music is all the same now. You find exceptions in Giacchino and a few others but if you ask most composers(and Scorekeeper does) they hate what has happened with Zimmer's sound and influence. People who enjoy simplistic sounds enjoy Hans Zimmer. That's generalizing a bit but for the most part I'd bet it's true. Modern sound isn't defined by Zimmer it is controlled by him. His company Media Ventures which has all of the "Zimmer Ghost Writers"(and there are a ton) is responsible for an insane amount of TV, film and video game scores with contract from certain production companies(Platium Dunes, Jerry Bruckheimer etc etc) and that's how we get to the shitty status quo and if your music doesn't sound like his then chances are you won't make it as a composer which prevents new John Williams's from popping up. Rambling on a bit but nuff said
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The estates of the Superman creators won back certain things about the character concerning his back-story story, nuances of the character, and his powers. Hence, Warner Brothers and DC are forbidden from using certain things in the next film, and they know it, but they don't want the public to know it. That fact has boxed Warner Brothers in, and they are being forced to change the character, and details of his story, because of the court rulings, not because they are trying to refresh the character for a new generation. This is common knowledge concerning said court rulings. These bunch of liars.
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Your Jonny Greendwood idea is great. That man is very, very talented. His score for THERE WILL BE BLOOD is awe inspiring brillance.
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That hack's only good work was in THE INCREDIBLES when the whole score was a very faithful pastiche of John Barry's film scores for James Bond.
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have you read the screenplay? because a bad story would be an indication of failure.<p>the score-yep, zimmers score will be a footnote to williams..ok. the most important thing is for the score to serve the story and work in the context of the film. if zimmers score does that, we're fine.<p>the effects- audiences have seen it all. ok...what they rarely see are effects that serve the story rather than trying to distract from a lack thereof. íf the effects serve the story then the audience won't care if theý've seen a man fly 5000 times because the experience will be much more immersive.<p>Most people that i've talked to about movies that are under 25 haven't even seen donner's superman. should they? absolutely. but when i talk to those over 25 that have seen it..at some point during the conversation they'll ask "when are they going to make a new one?" or "why don't they make a new one?"<p>i loved reeve's performance, but it was not above criticism. many did not like it because clark was depicted as too much of a milksop and a dweeb, even for a mild mannered reporter.<p>no one is underestimating the legacy of donner's superman films any more than the batman reboot underestimated burton's batman legacy. and "improve" is subjective. obviously they want to make more money, but the goal in rebooting is to take a familiar story and tell it in a way that audiences won't expect or highlight aspects of the character not commonly known. it is subjective whether or not it will be an improvement on previous tellings.<p>that also goes for the spider-man reboot. before batman begins and the dark knight came out, many thought burtons batman was the best it could be done, but you say it was done best in 2008. could that not also be said for the other franchises? but again "best" is subjective.<p>studios are always going to grab for the cash. and they have to make it back quickly. the only way studios are going to push for more original films is when audiences start getting more adventurous and spending much more on them and significantly less on reboots, remakes, re-imaginings, sequels, and adaptations. and the more audiences have to distract them the less likely they are to tune in to anything that they don't affectionately recognize. but a good story well told, is all it needs to be, no matter what the source.
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Vangelis to score a Superman movie is the best, most brillant idea since ever. Trust Vangelis to put the epic in music.
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The Backdraft socre is great, but thinking about Superman it would be the most boyscout music of all times. And the character deserves another vision.
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Is as part of the mythology as Reeves cowlick and the costume. The music is so ingrained in the memory that even if a composer pulls something out of the bag, we'll instinctively reject it. Might as well throw Dario Marianelli into the pile.
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I can hum Piano Sonata No. 14 in C♯ minor. Does that count for anything? <p> You're missing the point.
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Dec. 2, 2010, 7:50 a.m. CST
Nothing can beat Williams' score. You can either use it or lose
by Smoke Monster Loves Kate
So Snyder's movie is already down 0-1 to the original.
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Damn hack. Heinrich Zimmer is the filthiest carbuncle on the body of modern film music, or what passes for it because of him and the clones that actually write music that he gets paid for.
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I've never had even the slightest inclination to buy or listen to his music on its own.<br><br> I'm not sure why you picked backdraft as your point of reference. Zimmer's done much better work that that.
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who were playing w/ their stuffed animals. My 3 yr old was making her toy "fly" over the heads of the others, and was going "dah ah dah...da tadah dahh". And I immediately realized my hads have never even seen Superman: the movie or heard Williams score! Must have learned it secondhand from me.<P> It will be difficult or nigh-impossible to simply equal that score which has become iconic and timeless.
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my bad
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was by miles was the fight work, but some of the music was pretty badass. Bates would be a better call than Zimmer, but then again almost anybody would be - his Gladiator score was great, but riffs on that have been done to death, both by Zimmer and all his clones. Trevor Rabin might be good, always preferred his own take on that Bruckmusic to Zimmer - if he could tone down the bombast, and up the majestic-ness... ness.
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What's the deal man? What parts do they own?
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some of the origin story went back to the creators estate..i think krypton and the iconic S on the outfit...<P>but the real reason why they are rushing this through is because they had to start a film by either this year or 2011..otherwise they would be in default and the creators estate could sue for damages.
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Were real and good, but not real good. Whatever "IT" is, they are missing it.
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...but could be right for Superman. The fact that Hans Zimmer is scoring it gives it more continuity with Nolan's Batman films, too.
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Zimmer and Newton's Batman scores were vastly inferior to Elfman's mighty efforts. How can Zimmer's Superman score top Williams' legendary music?
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be a better movie than ESB, and Williams' score for Superman will never be surpassed, ever - but that's no reason for no-one to try, people!! C'mon!
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Without Snyder at the helm. It would have barely resembled the comic then fanboys would really have been bitching.
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Part of the reason for the greatness of his Superman theme is that I can imagine Clark humming it to himself when he's flying around, doing good. In its full symphonic mode it captures the pomp and majesty of a superpowerful force for good and justice, but stripped down, its a catchy little ditty that a flying farm boy may have come up with on his own. I'd hope that any new composer keeps that in mind - Superman is a good, decent, light-hearted American guy who just wants what's best for everyone. He's not bombastic or militaristic or scary. His theme music should reflect that.
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Dec. 2, 2010, 11:17 a.m. CST
Superman and Star Trek Next Gen are the most memorable themes
by The Founder
For me at least.
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I mean, it's kinda on-the-nose isn't it? I love it - I truely do, but it's pretty ham-fisted really. <p> I think it would play far too cartoonishly jingoistic for a modern and more serious approach to Superman. There's kind of a cheesy naivete and blind spirit of optimism about it that would play too tongue-in-cheek ironic nowadays. We like our modern heroes to have a bit more depth, complexity and nuance than the simple stirring bombast of Williams' Superman "Main Title March". <p> The "Love Theme" and "Death Of Jonathan Kent" from Williams score are it's true heart and soul and for me what makes the film stand out. Beautiful romantism and sentiment much more akin to the idealistic nature of Superman than the "Superman March" that everyone seems to be yearning to hear reprised. <p> I think it just makes a lot of sense to totally start anew and give this Superman film it's own vibe free of the shackles of what may have preceeded it. <p> It would just be impossible for this Superman to stand on its own if it's constantly refrencing our collective sense memories of the previos film incarnations.
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Yes it was. I really hope Greenwood isn't one and done. He's done some songs for movies, but as far as I know TWBB was his only score.
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Come on. The Rocketeer soundtrack is the perfect, major-key superhero music. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvBLFqqqS50 Barring that, Patrick Doyle.
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Fuck that noise. It IS what Superman represents. A bigger than life super-being who can FLY, lift cars, save airplanes, inspire people all over the world. The character of Superman is, and always will be, the super-powered boy scout who sees the best in mankind and wants us all to be the best we can be. If that's too naive for a modern approach then FUCK the modern approach and give me "ham-fisted" sentiment any day of the week.
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Lost was brilliant, the best scored television series ever. <p>The Incredibles = John Barry <p>Mission: Impossible III = Lalo Schifrin <p>Ratatouille = Henry Mancini/Georges Delerue/Claude Bolling/George Fenton/Rolfe Kent/Carl Stalling <p>Star Trek = Jerry Goldsmith/Alaxander Courage <p>Up = plagiarism of 2001's "Sex And Lucía" by Alberto Iglesias <p>Let Me In = inferior to Johan Söderqvist's "Let The Right One In"<p> Not the original wunderkind he's been purported to be.
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Dec. 2, 2010, 2:01 p.m. CST
NightArrows - I'm actually half in agreement with you
by The_Genteel_Gentile
But I'm just making the case for a fresh start.
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He just scored a film this year called "Norwegian Wood".
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Is that his second score?
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I'm all for the fresh start, I really am. But I truly believe the Williams piece is perfect and is as irreplaceably iconic as Superman's costume. I will withhold final judgement until I see the film and hear the music in context, however I simply don't want Superman "updated" for our times because he may seem outdated to some. He is what he is and the message he stands for, in the broad sense, is timeless. That's not to say he shouldn't have depth. The private aspect of Clark SHOULD be explored. How he deals with who he is, and what his place on earth is. But the Superman side of things should never falter.
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Ia lso hope that Greenwood makes more scores, and not just limited to the art-house circuit, if you know what i mean.
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... was hired to score a movie is always "Oh no, not him again!" It's has if he or his pupils are making 90% of the score of the movies made today. And all those guys's scores sound the same. But ocasionally, Zimmer does pull a pearl and makes a brillant score. Lately it has to be part of TDK score, specially his brilalnt Joker's Theme (known as Why So Serious) and the entire score of INCEPTION. And some years ago he did the utterly brillant score for THE THIN RED LINE and most of GLADIATOR. So, yeah, i'm always apreensive about Zimmer as a composer of a movie, specially one i might have a big interest in. But ocasionally the man puts brillant work. I canpt help be ambivalent about him. Well, and that he's major fan of Vangelis, who he looks up to and considers his major inspiration. Hell, i can't fully dismiss a man like that, can I?
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...from Zimmer's Gladiator soundtrack makes an audio appearance on the next Superman, I think I'm gonna punch somebody in the theater.
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...the Black Hawk Down and Kingdom of Heaven soundtracks. <p> I can just see it: big, emotional scene in Snyder's Superman, cue warble, "Aaaaah-Eeeeeeh-Aaaaa-Aaaaa-Oooooooooooh-Eeeeeeeh" (sound of wind chimes) "Eeeeeeh-Oooooooh". <p> Grrrrr.
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Another great thing about McCreary is he's still finding his musical voice. Some of these long established composers, Williams included, have settled into a distinctive style that they carry from project to project. A fresh composer might still be willing to create something entirely new specifically designed for that project.
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According to IMDB
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Dec. 2, 2010, 5:43 p.m. CST
Hans Zimmer is great but not right for Superman, unless he chang
by soma_with_the_paintbox
So many of his best cues are really the orchestral equivalent of electronica's "slow burn" technique. What I mean is, he may not be a minimalist, but I'll bet him and a whole lot of others were heavily influenced by it to the point where embellishing simple motifs (is that the right term?) for 4 bars at a time makes for epic music nowadays. And it does--look at TDK or Requiem for a Dream or The Fountain. But there's no great themes left because of it. I don't know much about composition, but strong themes need actual melodies, right? If Hans Zimmer could get back to that for Superman, he could be amazing. It just needs to be "ferociously hummable" because that's what's been missing from superhero movies of late. Last "ferociously hummable" thing of his were Jack Sparrow's cues from POTC--and then I found out those were from his protege. Here's a question: John Williams has scored so many "epic" movies that maybe he has conditioned us. Is it possible to do epic superhero themes without brass in the lead?
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Dec. 2, 2010, 6:58 p.m. CST
John Williams will pass away when Nu Superman is released
by TheManWhoCan
Mark my Words!!then Zack S is gonna feel real bad. Or not, probably. Still cant understand the support for this dick move.
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BELOVED remains my second favourite soundtrack behind THE ROYAL TENENBAUMS. I'm tired of Williams and Zimmer and Shore and Elfman. Well, Williams, he still does good stuff. But the other three have all been phoning it in and repeating themselves for years. Except for the SHERLOCK score. Dammit.
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Dec. 3, 2010, 12:41 a.m. CST
blackwood - Yeah man Rachel Portman is really under-appreciated.
by The_Genteel_Gentile
Hart's War and Cider House Rules both felt very Goldsmith-esque with a bit of Michael Kamen's romantism and a tinge of Thomas Newman's sentiment. She's shown a lot of potential to really branch out and play with the big boys like James Newton Howard and James Horner if given the chance.<p> Honestly, in her case I think it really is sexism that keeps her in the confines of "chick flicks" and period dramas for the most part.<p> Kathryn Bigelow should sympathise and unite with Rachel Portman for her next action extravaganza. Matter of fact, why didn't someone offer Bigelow Superman? Or who knows, maybe they did.<p> Also Cliff Eidelman needs to work way more. His Undiscovered Country was Star Trek's finest score. Besting even Goldsmith I'd say. I mean really, that is quite an accomplishment all unto inself. I can't fathom why he hasn't been working non-stop since then.<p> Furthermore Mark Mancina is incredibly underutilized. Mancina is by far Zimmer's greatest protege and the one true successor to his thrown. Superior even to John Powell and Harry Gregson-Williams. Mancina ought to be getting all the high profile jobs being swung over to the likes of Trevor Rabin, Brian Tyler and Steve Jablonski.<p> And finally let me just say two words that ought to be up on far more marquees; David. Arnold. - Really looking forward to hearing his return to grand adventure and fantasy with the new Narnia.<p> Also Elliot Goldenthal, Edward Shearmur and Randy Edelman should be getting the high profile gigs that keep going to hacks like Tyler Bates and Ramin Djawadi.
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Dec. 3, 2010, 12:45 a.m. CST
Say what you will about John Ottman's "Superman Returns" effort.
by The_Genteel_Gentile
but "Astro Boy" was the bomb-diggity!<p> Also surprisingly good was Mark Mothersbaugh's score for "Cloudy With A Chance Of Meatballs".
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Are you talking junk about Lisa Gerrard? Ever hear of the legendary Dead Can Dance? Look into it bro.<p>By the way, the other "wailing chick" you hear so often in scores like The Passion Of the Christ, Avatar and Chronicles Of Narnia is Lisbeth Scott. <p>However neither of these lady's talents can be heared in Kingdom Of Heaven because Kindom Of Heaven didn't have any "wailing chick". It had some traditional ethnic pieces but by and large any female vocals were straight up classical solo soprano and choir.<p> I guess my main point here is... and I'm sure you're a good dude and all - but you lose! Sorry bro, still love ya though. Always and forever, keep hope alive and all that jazz!:)
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I think your refrencing the middle eastern singer Natacha Atlas whose vocals on "Light Of Life (Ibelin Reprise)" and "Terms" from Kingdom Of Heaven are indeed ethnic and faithfully represent the Muslim aspect of the story, but I would never say her vocals are "wailing" like what you seem to be refrencing. Her's are much more subdued and subtle than what Lisa Gerrard and Lisbeth Scott do. But pretty much everything else in Kingdom Of Heaven is classial Latin choral. <p> So I suppose you at least half win. Only half because you still took a dig at my girl Lisa Gerrard.
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Trevor Morris (Tudors, Kings, Pillars Of the Earth) and Geoff Zanelli (Into the West, Outland, The Pacific).<p>There's some really good folks that have come out of Zimmerland; John Powell, Mark Mancina, Harry Gregson Williams, Klaus Badelt, Nick Glennie Smith... C'mon guys give Media Ventures/Remote Control a little credit, these guys have done some stunning work.
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I take your point and i understand what your saying. I feel "if" this is an origin story again, like with the Spiderman reboot, that the stops and false starts diminishes the epic nature of these characters and stories. I'm not against reboots full stop, after the Schumacher Batmans God know that was valid. Whatever your opinion of the Star Wars prequels, its more satisfying, say 20 years from now for a person just born today lets say, to pick up a box set (in whatever format) of those movies which, although actors have come and gone, there are threads of connectivity running through the films. Future viewers dont know that, oh well Raimi and Sony couldnt agree on how Spiderman 4 should be so thats why suddenly Peter Parker is back in college again. I just feel really aggrieved at Warners over this Superman situation. I know Superman Lives is considered a dropped bollock (personaly i dont agree), but it didnt make the money so its viewed as a disappointment. But, getting another director in for the reboot is no less risky financially than sticking with what Bryan Singer had in mind and considering X Men 2 is easily the most satisfying of the X Men movies, i really think they should have shown more faith.
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When this guy does a score, suddenly you crave classical music because it's evolved to the contemporary sounds and intelligence of today. With the Batman theme (especially it's evolution to the 2nd film's "A Dark Knight" and "Dog Chasing cars") on both films the specific sounds fit the characters, heroic and villainous. As much as I loved Don Davis and the a list of composers current, Hans will make us forget Williams. I will bet that it will pulsate with life, drive and epic strength. It will be a the ultimate heroic music.
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Just think about it for a second and you'll see it too. His Hairspray work, song by song, is all the proof needed to call him a musical genius. Superman needs to be hummable,first and foremost, and he can deliver catchy and heartfelt. Go through his previous work. I still whistle The Addams Family theme any given day to cheer myself up and the previously mentioned Hairspray soundtrack is possibly the most played thing in my iPod.
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<p> hello new ork </p> <p> ork? <p/>
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with feeling <p/> i guess
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<p> sugar <p> plum <p>fairies! <p/>
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