Cool News
STAR WARS EPISODE ONE: THE PHANTOM MENACE will have a limited one week re-release...
Hey folks. Well it looks like George is doing a special one-week charity re-release of STAR WARS EPISODE ONE. This could be a really great gesture for charities all over the country... or for the cynical, it could be a one week advertisement for a new wave of Star Wars toys that should be stocking the shelves for Christmas. Personally I think a lot of people sort of went through a Star Wars burn-out process due to the immense hype and spectacle of the release. Has any film ever had the pomp and circumstance that the release this summer had? It was almost a disappointment that it was merely a movie.
I've been doing a lot of thinking in my head about the difference between something like Episode One and The World Is Not Enough and Toy Story 2... ya know... movies in franchises. The whole sequel thing. and I've decided to do a little thinking out loud here.
For me, EMPIRE STRIKES BACK just blew me away when it came out, and now... TOY STORY II did the same. Why is that? What is it that they did that... oh... say the latest Bond didn't do?
Well... In both Empire and Toy Story 2, the films didn't have to waste any time introducing the established characters. We already know who they are and what they are about... instead far more time was invested into the plotline and story as well as advancing characters that we already know quite a bit about.
In Star Wars, we were allowed really solid looks at Luke, OB1 and Han. Leia, Chewie, R2D2, Threepio and Vader were all touched on, but not given any real depth. In Empire... There was zero rehashing, and just lept straight into adding to all of those characters, plus introducing a couple of new characters that blew us away.
The same thing happens in TOY STORY. The first film really introduces us to BUZZ and WOODY and gives us tiny little glimpses at everyone else. The backstory and motivations are really left to BUZZ and WOODY is left to be basically they guy holding his hand. In TOY STORY 2... well... Time has passed. There are some new toys in the room, the dog is there... But this time it's Woody's story, adding a complete new dimension to his character. All of the 'gang' have more going on, they don't reintroduce any of them. The new characters are smart and fast and instantly more in depth than say Sid.
The film explores quite a lot more than the first one, because it has the time to do it. You aren't having to do all the 'Hey howya doing, My name's Woody' type of thing... you can just hop to it. And they do...
Now we have, STAR WARS EPISODE ONE... First off... this is all new to me. We have a film with nearly no cultural icons from the other films to point to. No Stormtroopers or X-Wings or Millenium Falcon or Han Solo or Luke Skywalker or Princess Leia or Chewbacca or Darth Vader or... well you get the idea. Threepio and R2 are little more than cameos... as is Yoda. OB1 isn't even really given much time. Instead we have all these Robots and Trade Federations... What is all this stuff?
And why the hell is Jar Jar Binks there? Well... I can't say for sure. But this is Chapter One... the story is... allegedly supposed to follow this one... and lead all the way to Return of the Jedi.
One of the problems that those people that don't like EMPIRE STRIKES BACK as much as either 4 or 6 is because the film doesn't stand alone. There is no real resolutions, it just adds all these questions. Personally.. I love that. It's a perfect middle chapter.
So... that leads me back to Episode One. And why the hell is Jar Jar Binks in there? I don't know. You don't know. George knows. Perhaps it is so we can have a parallel innocent fall at the same time young Ani falls as well. Anakin will fall to the dark side, perhaps Jar Jar's story is one where he watches his people die, he becomes the last of his people and then one day he too meets his end. Perhaps he has an arc like that, and when you watch the entire story... it makes his character tragic.
Perhaps the robot army and their incompetence was created to set up the reason why a droid army couldn't wipe out the Jedi, so clones... living beings with their own life forces would be... a more efficient enemy to fight the Jedi with. I don't know. I've just seen Chapter One.
Sure... for now the movie isn't a perfect film. But what if Lucas really is some sort of evil genius? What if the larger scheme of things hasn't yet been revealed? Or... perhaps I'm just a pathetic fanboy that never stops hoping... I don't know, but I like the film quite a bit. It is still my third favorite in the franchise (5,4,1,6 is the order of the moment in my mind).
For more information on this rerelease, Click here and visit the official STAR WARS site.
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Well, I can't wait to see it again (& again)! I loved it the first time and the second and the third and... well you get the idea. Meesa thinkin' it was a lot of fun!
-John -
The best charity Lucas can do for himself and his country is to pretend this steaming pile of dog's muck never existed. Harry: the man who liked SW:TPM and hated TWINE. What's in those Mars bars?
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yeah, i do agree Harry. the new star wars was a huge dissapointment to me, mainly cuz everything was new and i dunno...just not as cool. well, whatever.
oh and jar jar: i have ordered a snipe upon ye. -
I always thought that Jar Jar's presence was to ligthen the load for the youngsters (after all, this movie was trying to cater to ALL tastes). Having a villain as complete and as sinister as Darth Maul needed some kind of counter-balance for the kiddies - even though Maul as a character was grossly under-used. The first movie is certainly incomplete - it leaves you wishing for what could have happened and what is to come. A kind of "Empire. . ." slotted in at the beginning. Unusual strategy for sure.***As for this charity re-release, I am always sceptical when anyone declares "I do this for charity!" The arguments aside for high-profile charity-donations, it will still bring in quite a large revenue for Lucas and 20thC Fox.***And Harry! Yeah, "Empire" is my favourite as well.
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Ep1 is a good film! Its not great, its not as good as the other 3 but it is a good film. The problem with it is that there are no instantly likeable characters. Remember when you first saw A new hope, how you instantly took to and wanted to be Han Solo. How many of the new characters are as cool as Cheiwe?
Amidala(Cold), Qui-Gon(Smug), Anakin(Brat), OB1(Cool, but criminally underused) and Jar Jar(enough has been said about him). George made a mistake by basing this film around a character that dies, most of EP1 was spent developing a character that won't feature in EP2, OB1 should have had more screen time to develop his character. I'm not sure that these characters will ever live up to Han, Leia, Luke and Chewbacca. -
And isn't the idea OB1 more or less becomes Qui-Gonn? He resists Yoda's advice (after criticising Qui-Gonn for the same thing) and trains Anakin. Qui-Gonn may die - but he seems to have brainwashed OB1 or something.
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I really liked EP1, but it wasn't a great movie. It lacked the simplicity of A New Hope, you know, one young man begininng a journey which will lead him on a great quest. I think Lucas tries to do too much in EP1. Spends too much time on the background and the story loses out. that said, I'm really looking forward to the next one.
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what happened to "Mesa Luved Him!" just curious.
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Nov 22, 1999 8:48:47 AM CST
It would be nice if he tinkered with the version in this re-rele
by gsolo
Perhaps some of the editing advice his friends gave him could have helped this film in some way. Maybe put back in some Maul scenes and take out some Jar Jar scenes.(wishful thinking) That would make for good business alone. I'll go again because I am longing for something this film did not deliver and maybe I can somehow extract better feeling out of it this time.
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I really enjoyed TPM, but I have noticed something about the film: No Gratuitious Cool Shots. No stars streaking by the window when they make the jump. No cool "fire-up-the-lightsaber" shots. Like in Empire where Luke is all braced and Vader's blade just slooowly ignites, casual-like. No graceful space shots. Like in Empire where the Falcon swings towards the camera and avoids the asteroid. Or where the Falcon and some x-wings cruise through the rebel fleet before departing to attack the 2nd Death Star.****The second thing I've noticed is no repeatable dialog. Nobody's gonna walk around the office saying: " Now, this is podracing" for example. Overall, the movie just lacks the sense of wonderment that made the first 2 so grand.
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I really liked TPM, but I probably won't be seeing it for your charity week. There's too many other films out there competing for my money right now, and, again, TPM has flaws, and not just Jar Jar. I'd write more, but I'm not feeling well.
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The subject says it all. Do you honestly think most people will pay to see this again? I know not a ingle human being that liked this film. As a matter of fact, all of my friends, family and co-workers despised with a passion unseen since GODZILLA took 2 hours of their lives.
Jar Jar can eat my ass. -
If you hated the Phantom Menace there is nothing more anyone can do to save you. It took 16 years, but now your seduction to the Dark Side of the Force is complete.
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C'mon guys, let it out. Show us how you feel, you pessimistic jerks. Every time someone mentions Episode 1, out comes the bile and venom for what is essentially a movie for children. And what's with all these fucking conspiracy theories? Lucas is re-releasing it for Hasbro? Fox is pissed at Lucas? Harry is on the take, due to his wavering stance on Jar Jar? ARE YOU ALL FUCKING INSANE? You're talking nonsense! Fucking gibbering retarded ill-informed lunacy! Can everyone who didn't like TPM just kill themselves right now, so I don't have to put up people moaning and complaining like old women in the run up to Episode 2. You film-hating bastards give me a headache. So, nothing personal, but just die now please.
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... George Lucas sucks, Episode one sucks, Lucas is a genius, TPM was awesome, Jar Jar sucks, Anakin sucked, Darth Maul was awesome, they shouldn't have killed him . . . I haven't read this tlakback, but did I get most of it right? Ugh, how tired. I hope I'm wrong. Ah, fuck it. As the Warrior would say, see you in Hell.
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Red Dwarf is BBC2 longest running Sci-fi sitcom and it is still as fresh as the first series. After series 6 there was a five year gap when Grant and Naylor split. Grant wrote series 7 on his own which was admittidly the worst series but series 8 has made up for series 7 and was in my opinion the best of the lot. I now await the big screen debut that should be out next year.
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Ok, TPM, I liked it, not the best, but remember that it is setting up two more movies. Its supposed to be incomplete. On Lucas being a sellout: bullshit. If that were true then we would probably have a new Star Wars every 2 or 3 years (like Star Trek or Bond). Lucas has more money than he will ever need, and its not like he hoards it all for himself. No, he donates a shitload to USC, and most of it he spends to upgrade Lucasfilms technologies. And finally, for any of you who doubt that Phantom Menace is loved by many, check out the "Discussion Forums" at www.theforce.net
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And don't patronise me, I eagerly awaited RDvii too only to realise Chris Barrie was leaving to do..A Prince Among Men! what shit! Anyway...
STOP BEING SUCH IDIOTS!
aww Harry, you liked Jar Jar and now you've CHANGED YOUR MIND ahahahhhhhhhhhhh!! I'm telling Ebert!
People can change their minds, I looked forward to TPM for AGES, saw it, was pretty gutted to tell you the truth, saw it a month later and loved it. On reflection I don't love it but I still really like it. The point of an opinion is that it is not a empirical truth. OK, whinge if Harry changes his mind and doesn't announce it as a seperate piece of Cool News, but let of him. I feel that a lot of people are taking out their StarWars/Dogma/Winter blues out on Harry. SO just ease up and consider the things you hated and then liked and vice versa.
Oh and Alan Partridge is funnier with only two series on TV that Red Dwarf ever was with seven or will be.
Cheers -
Nov 22, 1999 11:28:33 AM CST
"Yes, my little slaves...come and pay me more tribute! Make me r
by uncapie
Twenty years for a story like this?! SCREW HIM! Wise up and don't support it!
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Maybe they could market it right this time.
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Can't you see Lucas' grand master vision? It's right there in front of you. By re-releasing 'Episode 1,' Lucas is paving the path for this movie to be the Number One movie of all time. Hell, it worked for 'Star Wars,' didn't it? Just re-release it every few years, and watch the dollars roll in. Then, in twenty years, release a "Super-Enhanced, Digitally Restored and Remastered, Extra-Special Edition," containing new footage. Translation: Jar-Jar, like you've never seen him before! BTW Harry: "Jar-Jar? Mesa thinks I liked him" will be your epitaph. Trust me.
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It's nice to see some optimism about this movie. Episode 2 will prove if Harry is right, but the fact remains that people need to let up. George Lucas is so damn rich that he does things because he WANTS to. Christ, he lives on LUCAS valley road IN LUCAS VALLEY. THAT'S how fucking rich he is. George can do anything he damn well pleases and he does. Naturally there are those who want to knock him, but really it's just jealousy and outright stupidity. The man has a vision. It's not OUR vision. He just chose to share it with the world and happened to be bright enough to make millions and millions of dollars with it. That is what we call in this country a SUCCESS. So go ahead, try to tear him down. The fact is he is richer and happier than his critics will ever be and that is what they really hate.
http://members.xoom.com/table30
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All right, enough with the "Hasbro is the charity" comments. You guys claiming that Lucas is a money grubbing greed monster just remember: toys have been a part of Star Wars from the beginning. They are a part of the phenomenon. They always have been, they always will be. I remember making my father drive me to toy store after toy store in the Summer of 78 in search of new figures until he got so frustrated he told me that there was no way he was gonna "Drive anywhere else to find something with a name as stupid as Jawa..." While it is true that this summer the market was over saturated with Ep I merchandise, some of it being complete junk, Hasbro's profits are up 33% over this time last year because of their Star Wars toys. Their action figures and vehicles are selling very well, as are the Lego kits. They do not need a charity re-release. As far as Harry's reflections on the film go, I think he's right to a certain extent. The movie introduces new characters and settings unfamiliar to fans, and doesn't provide the comfort level that a sequel would give. Those of you who don't like the film now are not thinking about the future. This film was never meant to stand by itself (ep. IV is the only one.)It is THE BEGINNING. Have faith, Lucas will provide.
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i have to agree. "knowing me, knowing you" has got to be one of the funniest tv shows i have ever seen in my life. if anyone out there is remotely interested in a complete and utter parody of the whole chat show thing then this is the show. steve coogan is brilliant. put this with "the larry sanders show" and australia's "frontline" and you have the 3 greatest parodies of tv journalism(if you can call it that) you'll ever see. oh and before i forget: "don't say it's racist, because its NOT!"
ps. i'm not a pom but an aussie.
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Nov 22, 1999 12:17:13 PM CST
ummmmm....sorry, i was talking about alan partridge (steve cooga
by speed
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First off, Grunt,it's been TatooINE since Star Wars: A New Hope was initially released. The planet is named after a village called Tatouine in Tunisia. Tatoonie? What are you? Stupid? Second, I personally subscribe to the theory presented by someone on this website that George Lucas had no intention of making a racist film, but that he inadvertantly adopted the racist attitudes of the serials from the 30's and 40's he was hoping to emulate. Forget about Jar Jar, what about the disgustingly stereotypical Orientalization of the "evil" Trade Federation representatives. Also, one would think that with a controversy brewing over whether Jar Jar is supposed to be a Steppin Fetchit character, Lucas would have better sense than to grant a license to Farley Foods for Jar Jar-themed Watermelon flavor fruit tape. Just a thought.
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Say what you will about the movie, but you gotta admit TPM inspires the best talkbacks. :) Bring on Episode 2! I just hope Jar Jar isn't in it alot, not because he bothered me so much, but because I'm sick of people whining about him. Come on people! Let's break format and focus on the REALLY annoying characters in TPM: The Nemoidians. Ponch and John could have defeated these fucks and their Johnny 5 robots! They are the only truly negative stereotypes in the film, and whenever they spout such classic lines as "Are you braindead?" in their best Count Chocula voices, I expect "I vant to suck your blood!" to follow. Hell, I thought the Nemoidian muppet with the Cyclops visor was something made by Sid & Marty Kroft! Any chance Sigmund the Seamonster will be in Episode 2?! My point is, while I agree that Jar Jar may have had wat too much screentime, he was meant to be a dopey sidekick and succeeded as such (too well?). And you have to admit he was impressive effectswise. But the Nemoidians looked like crap in an otherwise beautiful movie, and really lacked as villians. And it's hard to have a strong movie of this genre without strong villians (yes I know the Emperor was the main villian, but even he was weak). Otherwise, TPM was a fun ride. Can't wait for Ep 2.
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For me, if SW1 is bullshit, so are the previous three ones. I completely agree with Harry. "A New Hope" as a stand-alone is no great stuff, recognise it. "Return of the Jedi" is pure bullshit in his own. Only "The Empire" is a good movie on his own but, alas, it cannot stand without the other two.
Everybody says that SW1 has a stupid plot. OK, SW4 has no better plot than SW1, really. All the characters are plain in SW1? I don -
Phantom Menace is not crap like Inspector Crapget (Inspector Gadget movie)!
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That was the only good part of the whole bloomin film.
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Greetings and salutations, all. In case any of you fanboys have ever read any Keats, my subject line will make sense. That was where I was standing when I first saw TPM. It was magic. Pure, unadulterated magic, and no one can ever change that. So you basement dwelling, Dungeons and Dragons playing, greasey haired fanboys don't like TPM, huh? Why? No Boba Fett? We all know he was the Coolest Character Ever To Grace the Silver Screen. Piss on Boba Fett. I hope Jar Jar kick his ass in the next film. At least JJ could get to Tatooine and back without falling in the Sarlacc Pit every five minutes. And piss on the fanboys. Although, I will have to admit, I almost like the way you guys have torn TPM apart. Without realizing it, you have in fact assured its place in the myths of old. You remember all this time, when TPM was referred to as The Second Coming, and SW was taking on the status of a religion? And, hmm... when it actually comes back, you can't wait to rip it to pieces. I mean, here you are, essentially "crucifying" Lucas with your rambling diatribes. This is so mythic. Lucas is the prophet here, and, as if to prove he's the real deal, his own "followers" turn on him because, as followers always do, they fail to understand the message. And that is all it comes down to. TPM was too complicated for you. Just admit it. No more ESB, no more two hour chase scenes passing for movies. In TPM, every line, every character name, every scene, every color, EVERYTHING had resonance. That was one of the most remarkably layered films I've ever seen in my entire life. Yeah, like someone said, come over to The Force.net Forums sometime. We talk about things like symbolism and metaphors. Perhaps you've heard of them. Granted, we've got a lot of TPM-hating trolls too, but ... I've actually started to compile a list of some of the names we've been passing around to help better our understanding of TPM. They include: Karl Jaspers, Jessie Weston, Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell, Schopenhauer, Keirkegaard, Nietzsche, Shakespeare, Roethke, Guatama, Christ, Plato, Tolkein, C.S. Lewis, Lao Tsu, Chuang Tze, St. Thomas Aquinas, Sartre, William Blake, Isaiah, T.S. Eliot, James Joyce, Sophocles, Thoreau, Fichte, Milton, Ovid, and Freud, just to name a few. Can any of you honestly tell me, in all your hyper intellectual debates regarding something like, say Fight Club, you've dropped half of those names? Or even one of them? The fact of the matter is, very few people are intelligent enough to understand it. Well, TPM works on two levels. First the Fun Kid's Movie, then the avant garde Modern Myth Movie. Since most people have a lightsaber shoved up their ass, they can no longer enjoy number one, and they're too stupid to understand number two, so they're jsut lost altogether. I would just like to take this opportunity to say that that is not the fault of the movie, only of your own plebian minds. I'm sorry, but George Lucas could crap on celluloid and you'd have a more profound film than anything Fincher could do. Hell, even Ingmar Bergman could learn a few things from Lucas. Most movies you boys flock around are illusions. They give off a pseudo-intellectual, dark, cannily provocative exterior to reveal the escapist fluff that is at their heart. TPM is just the opposite. The "fluff" is on top, and the interior is built on layers and layers of meaning and subtle reference. Sigh. In love with the shadow, never the form. Oh, and Harry ... not sure where you're going with that I Don't Know Why Jar Jar Was in the Movie. It's odd. Yesterday I was at TWINE, which I liked, incidentally, and I was thinking about your comments about Jar jar. When I got to the "Mesa Loved Him!" part of your review, I knew you were the Real Deal. You weren't a sellout, and that proved it more than any Bond bashing ever could. Please tell us what you think of Jar Jar now. Oh, and I will be back in theaters to see the re release. I've already seen TPM 30 times. It's not until about the 20th time that all the symbolism begins to click, and the hidden glories lingering in the shadows reveal themselves at last. And where is that Lane Myers guy?
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Don't try to make excuses for Lucas' grotesque lack of judgment in putting Jar Jar in the movie. Jar Jar EATS SHIT!!! If Lucas wanted a character whose death would be tragic or heroic, he should have made him likeable or at least endurable. If Jar Jar dies on-screen, the audience will be on its feet cheering.
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I think that you are missing the point Orpheus... Of course that there is a lot of anthropologic inspiration in building the story arc of StarWars, but really, every movie does. That
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Orpheus, while I completely agree that most people are taking large strides out of the way to bash SW1, I don't think it's the masterpiece of postmodern drama you make it out to be. It's quite sad that applauding comes less easily than jeering.
Right up front: I liked SW1. It was fun to watch. I saw it twice, and I liked it more the second time. I was not made sick by the sight of Jar-Jar, even though I never really bought into his environmental interactions. He was very silly, but that isn't always a bad thing.
That said, I think, Orpheus, that you've gone to the polar opposite of SW1 bashing. The reason that such brilliant parallels seem to exist is that our culture is built on them. Lucas got his material from serials, the serials got it from older popular literature and drama, and so on down the line. Eventually, the trace may end up at the graves of Shakespeare, Freud and Plato. I have no doubt that Lucas is aware of some, if not most, of these relationships, but that's something artists live with; the anxiety of influence.
Where Lucas accepts these influences, Fincher tried to outdo them in Fight Club. What he gave us was an attempt at an original creation. I've never seen or heard of anything like Fight Club, a film about a man so broken up and alienated that he becomes alien to himself. When we first see "Jack", we are given a host of clues as to exactly how mentally wrecked he is - nameless, sleepless, bizarre methods of coping, obessive behaviour, thoughts of violence always ending in emotional castration. But we dismiss these things like the doctor - he's just a whiner. We then see Jack create the person he wants to be out of nothing, and we are led to believe that he exists. They never interact with people at the same time, they never interact with their environment simultaneously unless they are alone... Fincher put one over on us, and in so doing was able to point out exactly how fucked up our society is - we can't even recognize the people who need help. That's brilliant, and that's as original a film as you'll see any time soon.
Yet if one looks closely, the influences become apparent for even a film as self-contained as FC. You could say that FC is pretentious because it tries to escape influence, or you could admire it for the attempt. That SW1 dwells in and uses its influences to increase its impact is not better or worse, only different.
Point of Clarification: When Harry said he didn't why Jar-Jar was in the movie, I don't think he was criticising the character. He simply didn't know why the character was *necessary*. Hopefully, Lucas will make this a little more clear in 2&3, as long as he doesn't cave and kill of JJ&Co. because of a few verbally incontinent hate fetishists.
"Radix malorum est cupiditas."
-The Pardoner -
Do you think it's just possible that Lucas might *want* to make a childish, goofy, possibly annoying character? Is it beyond the realm of possibility that he might be able to do something good with such a character?
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Great plug for your home turf there Orpheus. "You morons are too stupid to understand OUR rarified discussions." Puh-lease. Gee, you found connections to Freud AND Jung? What could those two possibly have in common? And how come Wilhelm Reich didn't make the list? Yeah, sure, TPM trades in myths and archetypes- so what? That doesn't mean it trades in them WELL. And I doubt there's been a movie made in the last forty years that wasn't influenced to some extent by those folk you mentioned (with the possible exception of Milk Money.) So you can take your snooty, cliquish babble and shove it up Lucas' ass, where it can keep you company.
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I'm hoping that the above post from Orpheus is merely an elaborate joke; I can't possibly take it seriously. The suggestion that the primary reason for many people's dissatisfaction with Episode One is that it was "too complicated" for them to follow is stunning in its delusion. Come on, Phantom Menace had about as much "depth" and "meaning" as the list of ingredients on a packet of cornflakes. Most anyone can rattle off a bunch of authors to make themselves appear more erudite, chum, but what's far more telling is that you actually refer to it as merely name-dropping; you evince no actual comprehension of any of these authors or explain how they relate to the film, but you clearly feel that simply by the inclusion of Friedrich Nietszche's name in your argument you are somehow an "intellectual" and therefore hold an opinion of greater validity than anyone else. Get down off your bloody high-horse. Probably the greatest bit of your post is, after taking all the "basement dwelling, greasy haired, D&D playing fanboys" to task, your revelation that you've seen the film 30 times and intend on seeing it again! (Gee, how do you find the time to see a film 30 times between reading all those books with the fancy words in?)
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Ah Harry you giblet. To live within such a fool's paradise. I was once like you and worshiped at the altar of our almighty GEORGE. But the pagans are now in charge and economics are their credo. The sad fact of the matter is that Star Wars is pure teflon- Lucas can do whatever the hell he pleases no matter how insanely stupid. Mr. Binks is there to wow the techno gawpers and those impressionable kids at ILM. No way is there going to be that Shakeperian tragedy with Jar Jar up to his knees in Gungan intestines screaming 'Messa all fucked up'. As for the droid army...well, the age old device of being able to twat robots harder than you can beat on people is a legacy of kids animation. Lucas deserves to be spanked until he cries.
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Please, people.......stop talking about a Red Dwarf movie.......that crap looks bad enough on television, and it's really not that funny. Surely, you people don't SERIOUSLY want to sit through something like 90 minutes of that !!!!!
Imagine how bad that's look on screen..........aw Gawwwwwwd !!
As for a one week re-release of TPM..........sorry, but I have two words for ya.........MARKETING PLOY !!!!!!
True enough, it seems on the surface to be a humanitarian gesture........but it comes from a shrewd businessman who want to empty the savings account of every kid in America and the UK !
(And who, to be fair, so far has done a really good job ! Anybody else out there feel the TPM merchandise was overpriced ?)
Nahhhh, rest assured, Georgie Porgie has his beady little eyes firmly rivetted on the bottom line, the rest of his body being covered in a sheen of sweat just thinking of the TPM toys that'll suddenly appear in Christmas lists all over the civilised world (By that I mean the U.S. & U.K.)
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That said the fact that SW is teflon proof makes the future adventures potentially savoury. If Lucas can conjure up such a beast of madness as Jar Jar and drive the same tedious joke on and on and on without remorse for the audience, then he will be able to experiment boldly as the franchise gets darker.
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What I didn't like: 1) Too much dialog resembling, "But Your Highness, the Honorable Ambassador Viceroy Numnut and the Prime Minister General Assemblyman Wank will strategically block the trade negotiations if the tariffs on interplanetary Federal shipments are not approved by the blah blah blah." 2) A lot of really undynamic, stoic characters - each one individually seems appropriate and well-played (IMHO), but the whole move just seems filled with them. Jar Jar didn't bug me (or particularly thrill me either), he was just nigh impossible to understand. I loved the Naboo city (a total Dynotopia rip-off). Really, I loved the complete immersion in the film environment... for me it just really needed some down to earth characters and plainer dialog to cut through the visual distractions and break up the heavy politics. George has said that he thought that kids would really dig this film and that others would be disappointed... maybe he felt he had to put some 'adult' content behind the eye candy, but what this film really needed was more amiable and possible gregarious characters that the audience could identify with... maybe even some without political, religious/philosophical, or noble titles in front of them (other than Ani & the robots). The bottom line, I expected fun movie, I enjoyed being immersed in a world of such exotic locations and peoples. It was a fun eye candy movie, that's all. The revelations and insight into the Star Wars universe were only of interest, not intriguing or exciting. I'm interested to see what the Clone Wars were all about, so that may bode well for the next film. I just won't expect anything beyond a fun and visually exciting film, and who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised?
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Hey, I really liked TPM. Not obsessively like Morpheus et al though. I went to see it twice, which for me is usually a waste of money. But I just found it to be such a big, goofy, exciting and cool film that I had to go again. Hell, I even found Jar Jar funny. There. Why was he in this film? Comic relief. He was the only character with any emotions, all the others seeming to believe that acting equates to frowning. At least Jar Jar looked like he was enjoying himself. I'm a bit worried by Harry's about face about Jar Jar though - if you get a chance, could you explain if you just changed your mind (it can happen) or are ytou trying to match public opinion. I hope it's the former, as if it's not then that's bad, mmkay? Peer pressure's bad. If you let them decide what you think, you're bad mmkay?
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than to sit through the most boring sequel in History. Don't feel like numbing my brain again, only true die hard fans will go see it again...
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Do me a favor and relate each of those names you pimped and the theories they're linked to to the TPM plot and how they were used effectively and consciously by GL... that is, unless you're too busy writing your dissertation on queer theory and the star wars universe.
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Yes, it's possible that Lucas might *want* to make a childish, goofy, possibly annoying character. That's what's dismaying so many fans and causing them to doubt his ability to pull off the next 2 pictures. No, it is NOT possible for him to do something good with Jar Jar other than omit him from the script. Remember the Ewoks? They sucked, and the fact that they beat Imperial troops was implausible and vomitous.
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At the risk of extending this already idiotic talkback, I need to correct a couple of errors and misconceptions. *** Grunter's claim that "a significant number of official sources" use the name TatooNIE instead of TatooINE is wrong. *My* sources are the final draft script as found in "The Art of Star Wars," first edition, the "Star Wars" novelization, first edition (the one with the dark cover and the unspeakably cool Ralph McQuarrie illustration), and the Star Wars comic adaptations (both the Marvel issues #1 through #6 and the Sunday morning newspaper serialization). They all use "Tatooine", Grunter. It's always been Tatooine, just like Wookiee has always been officially spelled with two "E"s. No truly official source has ever stated otherwise. *** Secondly, Portnoy's assertion that Skywalker Ranch's location "on LUCAS valley road IN LUCAS VALLEY" is proof of Lucas' hubris is perhaps the stupidest thing I've seen in this talkback (although that's a tough call, since there are more stupid statements in this talkback than in a Rush Limbaugh broadcast). The valley was named Lucas Valley long before George Lucas was born, and the road was named after the VALLEY, not the FILMMAKER. Lucas bought the land there because it was the only place in Marin County where he could buy an isolated 100+ acre parcel with easy freeway access. He even attempted to get the valley's (and road's) name changed to something that would attract fewer drooling fanboys (myself included, I must admit), but the county supervisors turned him down without question. *** My views on TPM (if you care)? That it is a good movie that inproves on a second or third viewing. That it's better than ROTJ, but not as good as TESB or ANH (in that order). That Jar Jar is a funny comic sidekick (my son loved him), but not the most annoying character in the series (that award goes to Jabba's stupid pet monkey-thing in ROTJ). *** If you ask me, George Lucas is a genius storyteller who can't write dialog or fully rounded characters to save his soul, a gifted director, a micromanaging producer, a wildly successful businessman, and an unwilling cultural icon who (like me) is dumbfounded by the vehemence of some of his fans' opinions about a bunch of movies he made because he thought they'd be fun. I just pray he gets a good script doctor (like Larry Kasdan or perhaps even Carrie Fisher) to polish Ep2 before he starts shooting.
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I want it to be right here, in my study, on VHS, on my own screen, which has not been vetted by Lucas, eating my own choice of popcorn brand, drinking whatever beverage I want.
Freedom of choice, you meglomaniac bastard.....we want freedom of choice !
Having said that, of course, he probably won't release it to video until NEXT christmas so he can sell even more overpriced toys !!!! -
You know, I was wondering about Jar-Jar, and I cant figure the dude out. But he is probably going to be the Forrest Gump of Star Wars. Always at the right place. He'll be the one to get Anikin to join the Dark Side. He'll own the Millinnium Falcon first. Serve as a mid-wife to Amidalla. And beam plans to Capt. Antilles ship before ANH. And what the hell is "Red Drawf" Is that some British thing? Anyway I'm just lonely and thought I'd join the discusion.
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I wouldn't mind seeing Episode1 on the big screen one more time before the DVD comes out...
However, I am against the charity thing. I want all the money to go to Lucas, & let him use it charitably. By the time it's over, the charities might get 30% of the money.
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Great post. And Eteranal - go back and re-read your post and think about how spoilt you came off sounding in public. Thank you and Goodnight.
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You know what, a lot of you are awful people. This movie is using its popularity to give money to charity, and you jerks find something wrong with that!
I would go see Barney 2 if all proceeds went to charity. Instead of screaming and bashing Lucas because he didn't meet your 10 story high expectations most of you should hang your heads in shame.
Ah who really cares what most of you think....you probably all are 40 year old virgins anyway. -
George Lucas should just dig into his own pocket and donate the money himself then to waste valuable screen space, Hasn't this movie made enough money already?? Uh Oh, I hope this doesn't piss off Mr. Brian2000 off!!!
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Just donate eight or nine (or ten depending on where you live) bucks to your favorite charity instead of feeling obligated to go see this thing again. In the grand scheme, ANH will forever be heralded as a work of genius; ESB a very strong sequel, perhaps surpassing its predecessor; RotJ, stinky but for two awesome action sequences which almost make it worth seeing. However the only thing TPM will be remembered for was making the studios stay out of its way and take some chances. Thank TPM for BLAIR WITCH, 6TH SENSE, BJM, AMERICAN BEAUTY, BOWFINGER, SOUTH PARK and every other ingenius film released this summer. Bravo Giorgio, for squatting on that tired old Summer Event Movie slot and failing to deliver the goods anyway. You changed the course of motion pictures in '77 and then set it right again in '99. Hip, hip, hoorah! Meesa hawny meesa luv you long time! Meesa-key-fuh-key!
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Nov 22, 1999 5:48:36 PM CST
If you want to see this talkback in a slightly different order w
by i'malanpartridge
They're are really getting repetitive. But hey, I don't care.
Red Dwarf is British, it's sci-fi comedy, it looks dated, has some brilliant episodes in ot but has gone crap.
Alan Partridge however is the best comedy creation since...Jar Jar Binks? No, only joking. Partridge is able to make me piss myself but just shaking his head and screwing his nose up.
"I'm a national TV presenter trapped inside the body of a regional disc jockey. There's no operation that can save me. Not on the NHS anyway." The NHS is the National Health Service; in Britain we don't pay for health care.
Anyway... StarWars...I liked what somebody said earlier about comparing the Gungan vs Droid Battle to the Hoth Assault. There is no comparison. EMpire does an Ed Norton on TPM, tears off its Jar Jar head and shits down its throat.
But I still like TPM. The whole of StarWars is not a post modern philosophical boiling pot and anyone who thnks it is, is deluding themself. However, it is a highly spiritual movie of symbiosis, destiny (which I love) and hope. Don't forget it is part one. It wasn't called the Phantom Menace. It was called EPISODE ONE.
The emphasis was on it role as the first, there are two more to come, so whatever your opinion what until 2005 or whatever. You wouldn't judge a film two thirds of the way through and trash it, so be patient and wait for it all to finish and then we can come back here in six years time and half us will eat our words. Or tell the people who were right to fuck at least.
AH-AH -
Anakin and Jar Jar were pretty similar in EP1. Two people who were floundering at the beginning become heroes by the end of the film. Jar Jar will remain noble and good, and Anakin will turn bad. If that's the case, it will make an interesting contrast. I though TPM failed on most levels. But there is an interesting story there with lots of facets. My main problems are the direction, a poorly developed script (as always, the story was good, but the dialogue here was not) and the fact that one of the main characters was 100% CGI. Pixels do NOT EMOTE. Actors rely on their fellow actors to create realistic relationships that are believable to the audience. Watto worked, Jar Jar did not. Some secondary problems were that I feel all the alien dialogue should've been subtitled (to make it actually seem alien) and Lucas must let his actors read a COMPLETE COPY OF THE SCRIPT. How the hell are you supposed to make a believable character when you're handed scenes out of sequence? Where's the continuity? The main actors were screwed from the start. I've probably had too much time to think about this, but those are really what it comes down to for me.
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Since when is it suck a f*cking challenge to stay up watching movies for 24 hours straight? Maybe it is because I am still relativly young, but come on! I do it all the time! I don't think there will be many "losers" at the Butt-Numb-A-Thon.
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Sorry George Lucas, But I'm not excited to go to The Phantom Menace again. I saw it twice just to see the Jedi do there thing. But thats about it. No way I could take another round of that F'ing Jar Jar. If Phantom Menace is the BEST G. Lucas can do 'story wise' than I have nothing to look forward to in the next 2 installments. By the way..I go to the Toys R Us and just laugh my ass off at all the unsold Jar Jar stuff.
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I agree that ESB is a great film, and certantly a great middle film for a trilogy.
However, oftentimes I find myself fast forwarding to Dagobah with Yoda, and then skipping ahead to the scene when Luke enters the freezing chamber to meet Vader.
I don't see what Hoth has to do with the story, or of anything of interest except for visual effects and general mayhem. The trench sequence in the first movie makes the Hoth stuff cry 'uncle'.
I also think that all the jizz, jazz with Han and the others flying around and this and that is simply a waste of time. I never could understand why Lucas didn't just edit them to the scene when they decide to go to Bespin.
It seems like Lucas was, well in my opinion, wasting time. The ending scene in Empire is awesome, better than the ending of any of the other movies. But I really cannot sit through the whole thing to see the actual meat and potatoes to the story. Half of the movie feels like filler (kind of like Phantom Menace) and it could have been developed to MAKE it stand on it's own. A good movie is one that can, a movie that isn't is, well..... -
Being called 'fanboys' by someone who's seen 'Episode 1' 30 times. Hmmm...
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I felt it was a good time to land the Jolly Roger (that's a VT for all you Robotech illiterates) and break down my concerns about what is going on in the crazy Star Wars Univese these days.
Here's the thing:
TPM still is the worst Star Wars film of all time.
Why?
1) Let's be honest everyone, the writing sucked. I mean the story sucked. Period. ("I'm Annikin Skywalker, watch me fly in a Naboo fighter and destroy a Trade Federation Cruiser, oh yes I've never done anything like this before. Aren't I special!)
2) Jar Jar Binks is on the screen for most of the movie. You know George Lucas can create any character he wants, unfortunately, and I say this as a fan, he doesn't know which one's are cool and which one's suck.
No, I won't be seeing the re-release. I'm a Star Wars fan. However, I'm losing the force. Harry and readers, I'll tell you why.
The way George Lucas has set up the New Trilogy to progress is comletely not relevant in today's culture as far as making any kind of statement, except "I know how to make the best CGI film!"
I've already figured that out.
Congratu-fucking-lations. Awesome. I won't be buying shit on video.
I mean does George Lucas honestly know how intense I'm imaging most fans want to see this fall from grace be.
It ain't going to happen with Jar-Jar Binks fucking up the screen. I mean seriously.
Oh, but I forgot, the next two make up about a third of what 4-6 in dealing with dark elements. Sorry, George the episode 6 battle between Vadar, Luke, and Palpatine, while intense was not that intense. And let's be honest besides Han getting hazed by Vadar in Cloud City, the arm getting cut off, and Owen and Beru being fried, there really wasn't too much pain and suffering being shown. Oh, how about Vadar, fuckign with CO's on Star Destroyers. Well, shit I hope he would. He is the DARK LORD OF THE SITH. The darkside while in element was pretty weak.
Fuck that, I want someone over at the ranch to come out and say episode II and III are going to be the most intense pieces of filmmaking of all time. We're going back to Old School and show the most terrifying, riveting, horrific, painful, passionately decent from grace of all time.
I mean fans like me deserve it. I'm glad all the fans of CGI fools (which is awesome granted, and can be used effectively to enhance story-telling, I won't argue) can be happy with their TPM.
But come on. Give me an episode II and III with the carnage and battle of a Conan the Barbarian Braveheart, Matrix the epic love story of a Dr. Zchivago, and the tormented rage of a Seven.
Fans, we have a responsibility to start demanding something from the people in charge of making these films. I mean come on, let's have them try to make something serious. There is nothing to lose, the saga ends on a good note.
After all, I mean, they owe us something. They drugged us into this saga, we bought into it(not to mention multiple versions of the film), we have the power to take control.
I mean who wants to see anything besides the most dominating epic war films of all time with Jedi going to fucking WAR with Madalorians. I want intense, intense, intense, intense, on the back drop of an epic love story.
Anyways, that's my thought. I respect why their doing the re-release. It's a good cause. I may buy a ticket, but I won't watch it. I'll probably give it to someonw who just doesn't 'get-it'.
Later,
Roy Fokker -
Eternal, you've just made some insane comments on the LotR talkback and now I see you again here! AGHHHH! But here you surpassed your previous posts with stupidity! oops, I forgot that I'm not going to respond to any trolling remarks of yours, so I better go to the subject. Enough of TPM! Let's think about Episodes 2&3. Personally I think (and I guess most people here will agree with me) that they will WAY better! It's too early to speak about Ep3 yet, so my thoughts about Ep2. Why we're gonna like it more.
1)it'll definitely be more darker and less childish. First of all, because Anakin will be a grown-up/ Any ideas about Anakin's fall to the Dark Side? I don't think though it'll happen in Ep2 - then it'll be too dark, and besides he's got to do a lot of things: free the slaves, fall in love with Amidala, marry her (they promised to show the marriage as far as I know - imagine some gorgeous temple?), start fighting in Clone Wars, become a Jedi Master I guess etc. And not only Anakin - we should see more of Obi-Wan - through his relationship with Amidala and Anakin, as Rick Mccallum said.
2)love story - I know, I know, I'm just a girl and all girls like love stories - but I'll bet all of you enjoyed Han/Leia scenes in ESB, didn't you? The concern here is how Lucas is going to put it - he said it Ep2 would have quite a bit of romance... And Amidala is 4 years older... Well, the actor must be really good to make us believe it's possible 3) more familiar things - storm troopers, x-wings, tie-fighters (or am i wrong?) 4)Boba Fett - I don't care for him much, but since he's so popular... they promise he'll get quite a significant part - bigger than in Empire - and we'll probably get the explanation of his relations with Vader and why he's the only one who's not afraid to talk to him.5)less Jar Jar - BTW I hear (on thforcenet, probably?) that Lucas is quite worried with the accents, in particular that many people are uncapable to understand him sometimes. BTW I don't think it was a racial stereotypes - he just wanted to create more accents - c'mon, if there're thousands of planets in the galaxy, it's stupid to expect they all talk the same plain English. In the OT we had 2 accents - American and English (no wonder, many actors were English). BTW what's happened to Leia's English accent in ANH which turned in American in ESB? 6) Aurra Sing - it would be really cool to see this alien female bounty hunter kill some Jedi, finally, I'm sure, we'll know more of Jedi, the Force. Just imagine Jedi training grounds! .... On the other hand, we get less SFX (admitted oficially) because the droids are replaced by stormtroopers... Anyway, it all depends on the actor who plays Anakin...Was this talkback about rerelease? Well, you know, in Russia where I live we still have TPM running in some theatres... Maybe I'll go and watch it for the 3d time? Jar-Jar is so funny dubbed in Russian! -
all of you people who come on here and post your i hate tpm rants. If you hate the bloody thing so much then why waste your time writing about it, what it is is that you all liked it but when a select few people didnt like it that must be the cool thing to do so why dont you follow them. make your own opinions scumbags.
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...to the rank of twit.
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Even if he does ditch/kill off/simply forget Jar Jar Binks, Mr. Lucas has to remember that he now has to somehow tell a convincing love story between Anakin and Portman's character (forgive me, I can't spell her Majesty's name). The second I saw them sharing space on screen, I burst out laughing inside, thinking "Oh God, Lucas is going to have to somehow put these two in bed together." Can anyone picture Lucas handling a sensitive love story that will inevidably go awry? I don't think so. How about a halfway-convincing conception of Luke? Nope. Not a chance. He's never written anything like that, so the entire premise of the next two parts is fucked up. Oh well. Maybe he'll try another "immaculate conception." I swear, when I heard Anakin's mom claim her son never "really had a father...he was just born," I wanted to puke.
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Nov 22, 1999 8:12:25 PM CST
AN OUTRAGE!!!! WHY RE-RELEASE SWep1:TPM WHEN LUCAS COULD. . ..
by sexualchocolate1
...just release the damn thing on video already!! Why is Lucas putting STAR WARS fans through all this bull-shit all of da sudden!?! He knows goddamn well that alotta SW fans are impatiently awaiting it's video release....and the prick RE-RELEASES it!!!???!! WHAT A DICK!!!
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Congratulations... I'm deeply honored to present the TPM super fan award to Natalie, her performance just now, brought tears to my eyes... I am forver indebted for showing me the true side of Jar-Jar... TPM really is the greatest film of all time!
(Dramatic Pause)
Cool. For everyone else out there I suggest we go and buy Jar-Jar toys and burn them... after we will craft unique lightsabres, not generic TPM ones, and pretend we are real JEDI, cause I'm afraid I'm never going to see them.
I'm sorry Natalie, I guess I just haven't spent enough time with other Gungans to really appreciate their language and culture. I really hope no harm was done.
(End of Monologue)
Anyways, people can say whatever they want about what I have to say about the Star Wars Universe. Besides I'm only a fan who has his feelings about the Star Wars Universe.
Besides, no (extra stress) has to respond to my post. Remember:
Whose more foolish, the fool, or the fool that follows him.
Anyways,I'm off. Too much loving and warfare still to be done.
Roy Fokker
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...Is that you can't even mention it without getting shit thrown in your face. Think about it. I loved it, so I must be a childish moron with no sense of what a good film would be. So-and-so hated it, so they must be a cynical bastard who's forgotten how to be a kid. Fuck all that. Why must people care what other's think? I absolutely hate being told that I have to explain why I liked a movie, don't you nay-sayers hate being asked why you hated it? I won't give you any shit for hating it, so don't give me any for loving it.............Tatooine, when I was younger I pronounced it Tatoonie, because I was a dumb bastard. Folks, TPM was not the first time it was spoken. The ending scene of ESB look says to Lando, "We'll meet you at the rendevous point on Tatooine." Trust me, its there *Luke actually pronounces it TOTooine, not TATooine. Anyway, its good that Lucas is having the procceeds go to charity. And finally, if you think hard, TPM has both the most childish things in the 4 (I dont need to list those) and some of the most adult (Two on-screen lightsaber deaths, Palpatine's manipulations). TPM served as an introduction to life "before the dark times, before the empire." You need to have a little faith in Lucas, I think we'll all be presently surprised.
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Nov 22, 1999 8:37:55 PM CST
. . .AND WHEN I GET THAT F*CKING PIECE OF SHIT ON VIDEO (if it e
by sexualchocolate1
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Nov 22, 1999 8:42:25 PM CST
. . .AND WHEN I GET THAT F*CKING PIECE OF SHIT ON VIDEO (if it e
by sexualchocolate1
...bash the shit to pieces cuz I am officially a anti-STAR WARS activist. Lucas has lost pretty much all his fans by making the mistake of making this film. LUCAS, you shoulda just left the damn thing as it was! And ya know?... I can't wait for SWep2 to come out!
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You know, if someone were to ask me what I thought about this movie, with all the hype and fact that it is Star Wars put aside, I would say, "Was all right." I mean it was like two movies in one for me. The first half was awful, I actually wanted to leave, but my sister said we should stick it out. The second half was great, I loved it. Awful + Great = ok. A few things really need to be changed. The voices of the aliens were to hard for me to even hear they were so distorted. Then we have that piece of driftwood who played Anakin. Hell, all of the performances were pretty lousy, but what can you expect when the actors are reacting to a green screen. It also felt to fake, they need less computer backgrounds and charectors and more real stuff. Worst of all is the awful EDITING. I have never seen editing worse than this. I got the feeling that the editor was some college kid who just started playing with the AVID. I mean all of the lousy editing effects can be found on those crappy old toaster things. Lucas has always used this lame-ass style, but now that times have changed, maybe his editing should too. However, I guess theres not a whole bunch of people who get so irked by shit editing. Good god, why am I writing all of this, who cares. Anyone else get the feeling that SSZero and all his little whiny pals, you know the ones, are the biggest pessimists in the whole fucking world. I think these guys just talk a lot of shit just to get a stir out of everyone. They like pissing people off. Has anyone ever heard a single positive word out of some of these guys.
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If they re-release SWE1, they should at least put it in a theatre where people will appreciate it more, like The Mann Village or The Mann Chinese!
Or you know what? release the damn thing on DVD already! Id rather see it on Home Theatre or Giant Screen rather than a crappy Mini-Multiplex-Screen with a bunch of people who theatre hop! -
ALL OF YOU "PHANTOM MENACE" BASHERS ARE WHINERS! YOU DIDN'T LIKE THIS, YOU DIDN'T LIKE THAT. "LUCAS HAS LOST IT. HE SUCKS. SCREW HIM. SELL OUT..." THE TRUTH IS, AFTER SAYING ALL OF THAT... WHEN EP. 2 COMES OUT YOU'LL STILL BE LINING UP WITH GLEE! YOU'LL STILL BUY EP. 1 WHEN IT COMES OUT ON VIDEO. IT HAD ITS FLAWS BUT IT STILL IS A GROUNDBREAKING FILM! ADMIT IT! AND AFTER YOU'VE SEEN THE NEXT TWO INSTALLMENTS YOU'LL BE BLOWN AWAY AND ONCE AGAIN YOU WILL WORSHIP LUCAS!!! LUCAS IS READING ALL OF THIS SHIT THAT YOU SAY, AND HE'S JUST LAUGHING HIS ASS OFF, BECAUSE HE KNOWS THAT ALL OF YOU WILL SHUT THE FUCK UP AFTER THE NEXT FILM!
EPISODE 1 FLAWS:
a)I AGREE WITH THE "COOL SHOTS MISSING" PERSON. THAT WAS THE MAIN FLAW OF EP. 1
b)ALSO, HOW LUCAS TREATED THE CHARACTERS THAT WE ARE FAMILIAR WITH (SANDPEOPLE and JAWAS). HE TOOK THESE TWO FREAKY, MYSTERIOUS CHARACTERS AND MADE THEM A PUNCHLINE.
c)THE SPACE BATTLE SCENE MAY HAVE LOOKED GREAT... BUT WE DIDN'T CARE WHO DIED.
d)IT WAS TOO FAST-PACED. THERE WERE NO CHARACTER SCENES. EXAMPLE: WHEN THEY ESCAPED IN THE QUEEN'S SHIP AND WERE ON THEIR WAY TO CORUSCANT... SUDDENLY THE SHIP WAS DAMAGED AND SUDDENLY THEY ARE CLOSE TO TATOOINE WHRE THEY LAND. THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SOME TIME INBETWEEN (ALA A NEW HOPE) WHERE THE CHARACTER'S RELATIONSHIPS ARE DEVELOPED MORESO. BUT NOPE, SUDDENLY THEY ESCAPED, THEN SUDDENLY THEY HAVE TO LAND.
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YOUR WORDS WERE EXACTLY THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN AT THE TIP OF MY TONGUE FOR A LONG TIME. LUCAS IS NO IDIOT... HE HAS A PLAN...
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Musta struck a nerve to get everyone all worked up like that. Come on, you subhuman morons. Jar Jar Sucks! What the hell is that all about? He's your archetypal jester, your Tarot card incarnation brought to life. George let his kids name Jar Jar! NNNOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, I'm glad someone brought up names. I'm sure everyone here is well aware that padme means lotus in Sanskrit, and that the lotus is a symbol of all encompassing compassion. "My caring for you will not change." I'm sure you know Amidala is derived from amida, which likewise means the divine light of compassion. What about Ki Adi Mundi on the Jedi Council? Ki is a hominin for the French word "qui", which means he, Adi is the Zen equivalent of Amida, and Mundi is of course Latin for world. He who has compassion for the world. Gunray is an anagram for ray gun. Palpatine is derived from palatine, which means deceitful. Qui-Gon is derived from Qi Gong, or life force, and Jinn is Arabic for spirit. As for Anakin, it can mean without kin (Ani Kin), or be traced back to Hebrew - Anakim. But I'm sure all of you know this. And who the hell said you could bring up all those people I did for any movie? BULL and SHIT. Go watch Home Alone, Twinkie Boy. Since everyone was bringing up Nietzsche, I have a very specific example. It comes from the end of Thus Spoke Zarathrustra. The three transformations of spirit. The camel, the lion, and the child, and the dragon with the Thou Shalt plates on its back. I have no urge to go into full detail, as I already have. But it's in TPM, and manifests itself throughout the entire trilogy. It plays out best in the Jedi Council scenes. The Council is the decadent status quo, and therefore the dragon. Obi Wan is the camel. Qui is the lion. Anakin is of course the child. I could make this sound better, but what would be the point? And NO, I'm not kidding. TPM is one of the greatest movies ever made. Fucking Fight Club? Did anyone see the ending? It erased everything. It had no meaning, no context, no subtext, it was incoherent globbly gook designed to cover up the fact that it was about nothing but some loser with multipersonality disorder. Forget all your high handed, Tyler Durden indictments against consumer culture, because none of that even happened. It was all "Jack" running around, beating himself senseless in a parking lot. Next to that, and American Beauty, and whatever else Snobby High Art Flavor of the Week, we have TPM, a movie that can be measured against the backdrop of human history itself. Myth, religion, philosophy, psychology, conflict, art, and architecture are all deftly woven into it, and it is the grandest cinematic tapestry ever seen on the silver screen. And incidentally, the obvious metaphors of symbiotic relationships and duality of self are only the beginning. -
Great rant!! I wish I could shut-up all the episode i whinning once and for all. You just know there gonna be back to bicth and moan for the next two as well.
I loved TPM for one simple reason: it was Star Wars, dammit. :) -
Just wanted to agree with whoever it was above who said the main problem with Ep1 was that you can't even talk about it without being attacked. Talk is what made the first trilogy so great - for twenty years, people could talk about it and relate to each other, thus it became something larger than it ever was on screen. All the hype and inflated expectations displaced most rational conversation before this film opened, now we're too burned out from the realization that this is (for now) just a movie, and can't do anything but gripe and criticize both the film and those with their own opinions of it. In time, we will see. (though not soon enough - I've been ready for Ep2 since I left the theater opening night!)
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Tell all of those fuckin' Star Wars whiners to shut the hell up then... I wrote in caps because of all the loud fuckin' noise they make!! Can we ever "discuss" Star Wars without them yelling "what a piece of shit! It sucks. Whine Whine." Can't they just say, "Well, I didn't care for it because..." to give their arguments some credit? You can't say that the whole film sucked!! Even if you didn't care for it! AND WHO ARE YOU CALLING FATASS, FATASS? Screw it... I just lowered myself to your level. Just jokin'.... kind of.
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Okay, Orpheus, let's have a wee look here...Nowhere in the Sanskrit dictionaries I consulted (one physical, the other on-line) was the word "padme" even listed, let alone defined as "lotus." Both the King James and New American Standard Old Testament Hebrew Lexicons define "anakims" (the closest found to "anakim") as either "long-necked" or "a tribe of giants, descendents of Anak, which dwelled in southern Canaan." "Palatine" is, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, "having local authority that elsewhere belongs only to Sovereign", and not "deceitful." Jinn is indeed an Arabic word, but means "demons," not "spirit." You fail to mention what language "Qi Gong" is supposed to be (though neither Chinese nor Tibetan dictionaries yielded results), nor where you get "Amida" or "Adi" (the "zen equivalent" - what?!!?) from. "Qui" is French for "who," not "he" (though in that case the difference is negligible - oh, and the term is HOMONYM, not "hominin"). In fact, the only accurate definition you provide is the latin "mundi" for "world."
My assumption is that you really don't know what you're talking about, but merely are listening to the ridiculous theories of others and parroting them back again without bothering to check for accuracy. And your explanation of Also Sprach Zarathustra as it pertains to Phantom Menace was vague at best, complete guff at worst. Pretentious, toi? -
Has anyone else noticed than in Phantom Menace , Lucas seems to be edging away from , the Zen/spirtual inspirations of the first triology {most obvious in Master Yodas teachings} and much more towards a Christian stance.Has he had some sort of conversion , since Return of the Jedi?Menace has a virgin birth,Darth Maul is more or less a demon , or the devil in appearance,Theres talk of Angels{from Anakin} and Liam neeson wouldnt have looked out of place in Da vincis "last supper " painting.I suspect that this , is the main reason that Lucas is trying to demystify the "Force" from what was an apparent spiritual power, in New Hope , to a blood condition of all things.That "Midi cloriun" stuff seemed a tad contrived and was bullshit!
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I just have this crazy suspicion that this flick's gonna be out for more than one week. I can see it now, "HELD OVER DUE TO ENORMOUS DEMAND!!! ONE MORE WEEK!" I actually liked EP1, but I also believe that as much as ol' Lucas doesn't like to admit it, the box office is quite important to him. That's not to say the charity act is a cover. It's clever though. Anyway, we'll see Dec. 8th or 9th what happens. By the way, has anyone gotten or played with the new Queen Amidala ship, the one that's about 115 bucks and has 3 or 4 little ships in it? Is that the most expensive Star Wars Toy (excluding the fancy dancy collectibles around like an exact replica Boba helmet)ever made so far? I can't think of anything I've ever bought of SW that was over a 100 bucks.
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Episode 1 suffers from one HUGE flaw: exposition. Plain and simple. Ask any actor what the hardest thing to do is and they'll reply, "give exposition." Telling an audience what's happening rather than showing them will bore them to tears. Remember watching "Star Wars" for the first time? We didn't know what an R2 unit was. Darth who? What's an Empire? These were things that we were unfamiliar with, but by the end of the film, we knew everything we needed to know about them IN CONTEXT WITH THAT FILM. Things about them that related to people and events we hadn't seen in Empire and Jedi weren't revealed. In Episode 1, EVERY SINGLE SCENE is for the purpose of exposition. Every time something big happens in Episode 1, someone takes one of the characters aside and tells them what just happened, then they explain how it all fits into the big picture. Take the first scene in the film. Qui-Gon and Obi Wan have been dispatched to stop the Trade Federation blockade. We know this. It was in the opening crawl. SO WHY DOES EVERYONE REFER TO IT EVERY FIVE GODDAMN MINUTES? From the pilots of the Republic Cruiser to the Niemodians (sp?) to the Jedi, every character reminds the audience who Qui-Gon and Obi Wan are and why they are there. Remember the first scene in Episode IV? How much dialogue was in that scene? A hell of a lot less than Episode 1. And none of it sounds like exposition. Sure, Threepio refers to the Princess, but he doesn't explain WHO SHE IS, WHY SHE'S ON THE SHIP, WHO SHE WENT TO SEE, WHY SHE'S IMPORTANT, and HOW SHE RELATES TO EVERYONE ELSE IN THE FILM. We find out in our own time. In Episode 1, Lucas goes out of his way to make sure we understand how EVERYTHING FITS. George, we're pretty bright folks. We can figure it out. You don't have to spend the entire 2 hour movie EXPLIANING EVERYTHING to us. We get it. It's like every time a new piece of info was revealed in Episode 1, we had to spend the next five minutes telling the folks who came in late what just happened. For example, when the Queen's entourage decides to fly to Tatooine, the pilot tells everyone what Tatooine is, what the climate's like, who lives there, when the tourist season is, blah blah blah. Again, George, we already know what Tatooine is. You don't have to remind us. The folks on screen in that space ship know what Tatooine is, so why would the pilot have to remind them? CUT TO THE CHASE, GEORGE! Follow the "plot" of Episode 1 and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan show up on the Trade Federation ship, everyone tells everyone else who they are and what they're doing there. They escape. Everyone tells everyone else they escaped. They meet Jar Jar. Jar Jar explains everything there is to know about Gungans, the Naboo, who he is, why he's there, why he was banished. We meet the Gugans. They repeat what Jar Jar says. The heroes arrive in Naboo. Amidala and her people tell them everything that's happened up to that point, even though we already saw it. It just goes downhill from there. Nothing is a surprise in this film. Lucas leaves nothing to the imagination. What a Midi-Chlorian is doens't matter in this film, so we don't have to know what it is. We just have to know there are these things called Midi-Chlorians and they're important somehow. Anakin's got a whole bunch of them and he might fulfill some prophecy becuase of it. Cool. That's all we need to know for this film. We don't have to know they are symbiotic creatures and all that EXPOSITION Qui-Gon rattles off to Anakin because after the scene on Coruscant, THEY NEVER COME UP AGAIN. They aren't important for the events of Episode 1, so why do we need to know all that shit about them? Okay, they're important in Episode 2. Great. Tell me about it when EPISODE 2 comes out! I don't need it now.
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Think Phantom Menace sucked? Guess what - CURRENT DOMESTIC GROSS: $427,709,795 and CURRENT WORLD GROSS: $908,700,000. So there.
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Nov 23, 1999 4:30:52 AM CST
It is TAH-TOO-EEN (foo-net-ick-all-eee). So all you -NEE gimps s
by i'malanpartridge
And as for comparing TPM to all this very worthy and intellectual philosophies which (quite conveniently) you can't quite explain here...If you see that fine. That's what art is about. YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION! But you don't have the monopoly on this. How can you say..."Look, I'm right. I solved Lucas' puzzle; it's a Niestzhean (whatever)/Buddhist reinvention of historic mythology." YOU@RE NOT RIGHT! We're NOT WRONG! If you thnk that - FINE. But don't tell us we're too stupid to see it or you're on another plane of existence that allows you divine insight into, what is, on it's own an average film, and as part of the trilogy disappointing.
I think that covers everything. OK citizens, you can go now. There's nothing more to see. -
mmmmm....don't you mean a homonym???
really, if you are going to use fancy words you should at least know that "homo" comes from the greeks and means same. you know, as in "homogeneous"- which means of the same kind. and surely if you are talking about such complex and philosophical stuff then one would assume you to have a better grasp of spelling than that. it wasn't a mistake. i found what you said interesting and i didn't know about the meanings of the names but what book did you take it from? i can't believe you came up with any of your posts considering you can't even remotely spell the word "homonym" -
All these people here that trash Ep. 1 obviously feel let down, but maybe it's more close to the truth that they let themselves down, since they seem unable to view this movie the same way they enjoyed the first series when they were kids, because kids that are the age they were then all seem to simply love this movie as much as the now grown up (well, sort of) people did back in the 70's, one of them being my son who had just as much a big smile and shine in his eyes after seeing Ep. 1 as I did as a kid when I saw Ep. 4. Sure, the plot is thin, the acting not much to write home about, but that has never been the strong point in the series. You expected the series to 'grow up' same way you all did, but guess what, Lucas stayed faihful to his target audience and I guess you now feel frustrated he couldn't reach that part in you anymore that's still a kid, but is that his fault that somewhere along the line you lost that sense of wonder?
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Okay, OKAY - my brain wasn't firing on all cylinders. It is HOMONYM. As for my definitions - Padme is indeed Sanskrit. It comes from a Hindu chant. "Om mane padme om." "Om, the jewel is in the lotus, om." Picture the Queen and her headdress. Yes, Anakin is also derived from a word that is linked back to a race of giants in the Old Testament. Never said it wasn't. It just had a Latin inflection as well. Okay, so Jinn means "bad spirit," instead of just "spirit." I've heard it translated both ways. ANd this way his name literally means "Spirit of the Force." :) Anyway, my point was, this film is much more layered than you give it credit for. I don't like coming on here and seeing headlines like "The Phantom Turd." Believe it or not, some people really liked this movie. Paddy - great stuff. The grail legend really ties in with Joe Campbell's interpretation of it in The Power of Myth. Only I see Anakin as the Holy Grail, the vessel that will bring the dynamic, spiritual energy of the universe into being. JC talks of the Grail being brought down by the neutral angels during the war in heaven, and being the balance between heaven and hell, just as Anakin is going to balance the Force. Qui-Gon is obviously Sir Galahad, the noble knight driven more by faith in higher powers than anything. Remember in the Grail legend when a boat he was on took him straight to the Grail castle, though it looked accidental? Well, that is the perfect stand in for the Queen's ship in TPM. And, to use T.S. Eliot's term, the Old Republic is indeed the Wasteland. It's a whole motif in there, to be sure. Didn't anyone see that Bill Moyers interview with Lucas back in June? I'm not making this stuff up. As for my Thus Spoke Zarathrustra interpretation, I didn't present it well, I know. I was in a hurry. But if you dig, I'm sure you'll see the analogy I was trying to make.
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You obviously haven't read all of these posts very carefully. We aren't all saying TPM sucks unconditionally. We have been very specific in our criticisms: bad child acting; annoying, incomprehensible Jar Jar; not enough screen time for Darth Maul. Most of you probably wouldn't agree, but I'd add that the whole pod race was incredibly dull, largely because I'd seen it all before in "Ben Hur." But there was plenty to like about TPM, particularly the cityscapes, Palpatine's machinations, and the light sabre fights at the beginning and end. Overall, I think TPM was a hell of a lot better better than ROTJ, the only saving grace of which was the closing confrontation between Darth, Luke, and the Emperor. Yes, the Ewoks were that bad and having the rebel forces attack another Death Star just doesn't work dramatically. We've seen it before and we know how it's going to end. So lay off those of us who aren't willing to accept uncritically whatever Lucas puts out. He's not infallible, and borrowing elements of myths and legends does not confer automatic greatness on his work, nor does it put his films beyond reproach.
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I have a theory: People who claim to be Star Wars fans but hate TPM are, in fact, liars. Prove me wrong, people, prove me wrong.
Anyway, I'd pay to see it again at the cinema even though I've got the bootleg CD-ROM. -
Thanks for the info, alanpartrige
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So you insist that "padme" is a Sanskrit word, depite the fact that it's not listed in two Sanskrit dictionaries I checked. I looked up a Hindi dictionary and was also unable to find the phrase "om mane padme om." You agree with the definition I found for "anakim", but you fail to mention what relevance it has (if any) to the character of Anakin Skywalker. If "jinn" does mean "bad spirit", or (the definition I found) "demon," then how can his name mean "spirit of the force?" And again you fail to say which languages "qi gong," "amida," or "adi" are from (let me know, I'll run a check on them too). You also neglect to acknowledge the errors you made in defining "palatine" and "qui." Come on, mate, I'm a reasonable chap. I'll be the first to say I'm not always right. Prove to me what you're saying is true and I'll buy it with a smile. But your arguments here just don't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny; where are your sources for all this?
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It's too bad people only read the hateful talkbacks and don't respond otherwise. I agree, and had never noticed that before about the exposition. It wasted a lot of time.
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I noticed you guys are spouting britania mythos, and wondered if anyone is hoping for an arthurian triangle. I sure as hell am.
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.. FOR THAT G.D. JAR JAR!
I had the same reaction as that other guy who said he liked to look around the theater and see everyone's horror when Jar Jar was around. Too bad it was most of the movie.
Like some have said before me, I am thankful to Jar Jar for one thing; my anticipation of Ep2 and Ep3 is greatly increased, knowing that Jar Jar will bite it and I will get to see him die in full, gory detail.
Things like the two-headed, podrace announcer and the stupid "punch him in the nose" pit droid really annoyed me.
Oh yeah, and the starfighter sequence at the end was moronic. Completely dumb just like the Inspector Gadget slapstick Jar Jar pulled in the ground battle, when every time he fell over or bumped something with his ass, it killed a droid. The droids were completely unthreatening and boring. 10 stormtroopers would easily wipe out the whole droid and Gungan armies put together.
The rest of Ep1 was mostly very cool, even emotionally moving in parts.
Also, the promotional push gave me a _real_ headache after a while. Especially that stupid CG character Pepsi used who was an obsessed Star Wars fan. Would take him over Jar Jar, any day though.
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I know I still have mine. It was scared deep inside of me during Phantom Menace by Jar Jar Binks. This mainly goes out to VoxMillenium: If I had never seen Star Wars as a little kid, I would see it now and LOVE it. The fact that I thought Jar Jar sucked has to do with the fact that he is the stupidest fucking character ever put into a movie.
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Cripes, George thinks anyone wants to see this stinking pile of crap again?!
Save Star Wars - kill Lucas, get Spielburg to finish the trilogy. -
I for one despised the annoying goldenrod to a point that I had to mute the damn thing whenever he spouted off. I loved it when he was blown to bits in Empire and loathed it when Chewie put him back together. In fact tha scene on Bespins where he puts his head on backwards and this inscesent whining came outa that hole of his makes me physically ill to watch. I hated him, hated him, hated him. And I hate him now. Part of the reason I like TPM over RTJ is that he's not as much a part of the blasted noize. Now. Having said that--this aspect never once detracted from my INCONDITIONAL love for everything in that glorious movie galaxy. This is what it's all about, people. It is also the difference between folks like me and sad-sacks like some of you.
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Wot de hell r u tokkin about? can you translate this - "shot de fok up"!????? If either of you knew the first thing about your topic I would kill you both and take your user ID's. Why aren't you both in line for episode 2 yet? IM OUT. oh, almost forgot, who's yer daddy?
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Just thought I'd drop a few comments into the argument between Orpheus and Countzero.
First of all, Orpheus is absolutly correct in connecting Joseph Campbell-- the renowned researcher in myth and religion-- to the SW series. George Lucas saw him as a mentor. In fact, Campbell colaborated with Lucas in creating Star Wars. The goal was to tell the primeval myth in a new way (part of why SW speaks to so many people-- it draws on common elements of foundational myths).
Second, the chant Orpheus relates as the origin of "padme" is indeed a Hindu mantra (nothing to cite on that-- all my religion text books are packed away now) however, I remember it as "Om mani padme hum." Amida is a word from the Buddhist tradition and does indeed mean compassion. More liberal Buddhists who believe that Buddha was divine believe in several manifestations of the Buddha spirit-- one of which is Amida Buddha, or the Buddha of compassion. Perhaps COUNTZERO should consult encyclopedias of religion, rather than dictionaries-- few of which contain specific religious definitions. -
Nov 23, 1999 4:44:05 PM CST
RayFokker, you know, I'm not a Jar-Jar fan (I don't know why you
by natalie
The major spoiler for the new trilogy......is the original trilogy itself. We all saw it and one of the reason why TPM and other two prequels will be less enjoyable and less interesting is because we know the future of all the main characters and of the whole Repulic itself. I didn't know what it was back in the 70s but I suspect all of you after seeing ANH were wondering what would happen next and who Leia would prefer, and what is the Emperor, and after ESB - how they would rescue Han and if Luke would succeed in bringing his father to the good side. Of course, such movies always have a happy end, but still, didn't anyone have backthoughts like "What if Luke does not succeed? What if Solo dies? etc.". And now? For example, Anakin or Obi-Wan gets into trouble or is doing lightsabre duel or whatever. Are you afraid? No, because you think: "No, you're not gonna die NOW, guys". Palpatine and Darth Sideous - we know, they're the same person and he'll be the evil Emperor eventually. Obi-Wan, Anakin and Amidala - it could be a cool love triangle - but we know who exactly she'll marry. Anakin is struggling between the dark/light side of the Force - we know, he'll fail. And so on. We don't know the details and how it all is gonna be realised, but the main plot is already known!~~~~~BTW SSZero, do you still think Leo will be a good Anakin? Remember on one of the past talkbacks you said about Wes Bentley. Well, I agree with you now, the guy would be awesome, but, unfortunately, he's not blond :-((( I'm afraid, Lucas will find someone totally unapropriate or he'll make the character unbelievable (which is possible, if he doesn't someone to cure the scripts), that everybody would hate him even more than Jar Jar. BTW what did you mean by saying you don't get replies to your e-mails? Or I got it wrong?
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I say we take George Lucas, bend him over, pull his pants down and insert an Ewok instead of a gerbil up his ass! I think he'll come around to his senses after that.
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Ok people people
I think that the whole TPM re-release thing is really what it is ...
a charity thing not a secret scheme plotted by Lucas or anyone to try and sell more toys ... they will be sold anyways...
and all the discussion about Jar jar got out of track .he's simply a comic sidekick ... a stupid comic sidekick he sucks and I will be happy when he dies and all his race also.
And don't get me wrong Han Solo started out as a comic sidekick but Han RULES...... stop all the bullshitting ... :o) -
I can't believe I'm actually posting here between Jar Jar haters and people who think Lucas should get a gerbil up the ass. And you wonder why I don't want to take the time to type out my Zarathrustra tie in? Anyway, since you are a reasonable sort, I am right, and you are wrong. The padme mantra is to be found in David G. Bradley's Guide to the World Religions. Amidala is indeed derived from Amida, which is the Sanskrit title given to the Buddha of Compassionate Light. This is from The Perennial Dictionary of World Religions. I was write about Adi too, which IS the equivalent of Amida adopted by certain Zen sects. From the same source, Jinn is arabic for demon, but it apparently means it more in the sense of the Greek Daemon, which is a spirit that can perform good or mischief. So, if you would lighten up a minute, Qui-Gon Jinn does mean Spirit of the Force. For according to a friend of mine who is about to go to China, Qi Gong is indeed Chinese for "Life Force." I'm also staring at my New Concise Webster's Dictionary, and palatine does indeed mean deceitful. Lucas is the MASTER. Just admit it. Okay, let's look at some other little aspects of TPM that prove George "The Meister" Lucas is indeed king of the castle. Think about that dialogue, which by the way, was EXCELLENT. Your focus does indeed determine your reality. "No one can kill a Jedi." Anakin. Who will grow up to be the slayer of thousands of Jedi. "What if this plans fails, master? We could be stuck here a long time?" Obi-Wan. Who after Ep III DOES get stuck on Tatooine for a long time. Irony - perfect. Did you get how that Obi-wan was introduced in both ANH and TPM by taking off the hood of his cloak and revealing his face? Did you get how that Padme, when she was first talking to Jar Jar, as the central female character of the trilogy, was introduced exactly as Leia, the central female character of the OT? Both as hooded figures, crouching down next to R2, with their hands extended up to him. Continuity - Perfect. Did anyone notice that the red and black mosaic on the ceiling of Anakin's room was the exact design of Maul's tattoos? Did anyone get how Anakin was a slave to one of the Hutts, and in Jedi his own daughter was a slave to one as well, eventually choking him with his own chain, breaking the cycle of abuse, just as Anakin does with the Sith? Did anyone take into account that Anakin was enslaved by technology in both triogies? In one, by a transmitter, in another, by his Darth Vader armor. Foreshadowing - Perfect. I for one feel honored to even be alive to witness the birth of all of this. It's like being around when Homer produced the Iliad.
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Nov 23, 1999 7:51:13 PM CST
right Harry, one point, but what exactly was your 'esay' there a
by enigma
it started off about the difference between toy story 2, TPM and TWINE, yet you didn't mention twine once, after the title, all you were talkingh about was how sequels are better than originals, by giving the exact reasons why sequels are worse than originals, if you want continuing characters in new situations, its called a sit com, and its on TV, take your thumb outa ya ass and do some real movie criques now ahrry, rathewr than spouting bull shit to please the majority of your talk backers
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suck suck suck no my friend only YOU suck ... AND jar jar
but eitherways
TPM is a good movie and dudes stop investigating religious and historical elements this is the god damned re-release talkback not the scientist points of view on the movie .... stop th bullshit... :o) -
Yeah, I'm talkin ta you, ORPHEUS. Get real..."an honor to be alive during the creation of SW..."???????????????????? While you got that dictionary open, look up these words - "Get. A. Life." No, I mean it. Get a real life, not that fantasy you're living through. I bet you learned a dozen language histories just to better understand all-that-is-star-wars. You wanna break the cycle of abuse? start with yerself. ----------------------------------------------- and, by the way............who's yer daddy?
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Orpheus - Enthusiasm complemented by intelligence is nice to see in a talk-back. It is tragically rare.
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Phantom Menace Haters - That's fine. I had a good time at the movie and you didn't. Those are the breaks. I saw it four times. It improved with each watching. On the other hand, while I enjoyed the Matrix the first time, once I watched it again, I formed the opinion that it was made up of a lot of style with nothing underneath - entertainment via smoke and mirrors. And that is how I feel.
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Why is it that two of the most popular complaints about the plot of Episode 1 are that it is paper-thin, and that it is confusing and overly complicated? I find that interesting.
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Coming into a Star Wars Talkback is a lot like going to the mall. I come in here all wide-eyed, and ready for something to happen. However, once I set foot into a store, all the energy is just drained right out of my body, and everything smells like old women's perfume. Am I the only one who thought this whole thing was just a movie and not a religious cult. How the hell can you people enjoy this stuff at all when you spend the entire film reading from ancient texts, and archaeological findings. Get some popcorn, the least sticky seat, and chill the fuck out!
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Look, TPM is very, very cool. Now, repeat to yourself, "It's just a show, you should really just relax." But damn it, that is how I enjoy it. Do you know what makes art, boys and girls? IMO, levels. Levels of meaning that carry a thousand resonances and point beyond themselves with all the strength they can muster. And that's what TPM delivers in spades. It's not just a movie. "As though to breathe were life!" as Tennyson said. Somebody just e-mailed me, and said I didn't understand Fight Club. First off, let's keep it in the forums. Second off, there was nothing to understand. It's that pseudo-pompous art film thing again. Oohh... it was so brilliant. Yeah. Made me want to shit in my britches. So, do ya'll sit around Fight Club forums discussing ... what? Schizophrenia? God, that could have been a good movie. I have an idea! How about, at the end of TPM, we find out that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are actually the same person! WHOA! Wouldn't that be profound! Then Obi-Wan could deliver a few pithy lines on the capitalist downfall of the Republic, and then get in a giant lightsaber battle with himself, and then blow up the senate on Coruscant! And then Yoda could do something really profound and come up and shake the camera or something! Awesome! Mindboggling. My God, at least TPM was a box office success. Okay, look out for major fight club spoilers. When we learn Norton is both himself and Brad Pitt, it castrates the whole movie. Okay, I can buy the notion that a few burned out guys that couldn't make it in the real world and were some numbed by our decadent society that they could see two guys roughing it up in a parking lot and saying to themselves, "Hmm. They know the answer. Look at that Tyler Durden guy. He knows cool stuff. Let's express our outrage at the world by beating each other up like those two guys. Yeah! Then we can form a terrorist cult and overthrow society altogether." But NO. That's out the window. Can anyone here honestly tell me that, if you saw Edward Norton beating himself into a coma in a dark parking lot you would do anything but either laugh at him or run away? If you would a film with a great anti-capitalist message, how about TPM. Those greedy trade federation bastards! Severing Naboo's symbiotic relationship with the rest of the galaxy. There was an excellent article in the Washihngton Post in which the reporter talked about the endless, faceless battledroids being unloaded off the MTT's, all identical and ready to march over hapless consumers. He talked about how easy it wold be to envision Nike symbols on their heads. And in TPM, Amidala gets her life and destiny back. "I will take back what's ours." It offers the hope that our lives don't have to be dictated by finances and material things, that we can rise above our circumstances. What does FC offer? Oh yeah, let's go blow up the world! That's real mature.
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You know what, it is just a movie pal, and not a very good movie at that. You look at this damn Star Wars thing as though it were the Holy Grail. It is not the very essence of life, our reason for living. We are not the most fortunate people ever to exist just because we are allowed to see this movie. Star Wars does not unlock, or even attempt to unlock the deep, dark secrets of life. I mean if you feel that this movie is so much to you, which I find incredibly pathetic, why don't you shave your head, put on a robe, and move into Lucas' ranch to serve and devote yourself to your master. Orpheus, the man who believes that Star Wars is the second coming. Orpheus, the man who believes that George Lucas, a man who created an action/fantasy/marketing movie, is the Messiah. Well, I do indeed hate to burt your bubble, but this movie is nothing more than that, a movie. TPM does not force us to question ourselves or our world. TPM shows us some fun on the screen with a moral. This movie is not anything different. The entire Star Wars series is based on the age old fairy tales, only in space, it is nothing new at all. It may be time for you to go out into the world and see life for yourself. Find something on your own to believe in. There is more to the world than what can be found in any book or movie. Unless you would rather just follow the teachings of your master, George Lucas. You are so pathetic.
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Good point. We already do know what happens. Which is good and bad, for George Lucas. It's bad for this reason: He better write and direct the most compeling 2 installments of his franchise (not a TPM II) or he's not only going to be the laughing stock of the film industry but of his real fans. The fans who love technology and what it does, but the ones who do believe in the power of story. Why would I make a distinction between fans? Because we know that even though he makes big-budget epics (i.e. Star Wars, Indiana Jones etc.) he still has made two of the most important small indie's of all time, namely THX- 1138 and American Graffiti which are just as respected. Those films were small and powerful, big in story and rich in theme. Lucas is one of the most respected filmmakers still around. Even though he is making these big Hollywood-type movies, like TPM, he has shown that he cares (when there is not much money around) about plot, characters, setting through his medium of a camera. I mean the man has both power and money. He's a double threat. I mean come on, people. Like I said in my original post, (pardon the agression in the 1st and 2nd posts most notably to you) the story and character development is key (Old School). However, you can look at this in a good way for this reason: He can finally assert himself in the world as the true master the modern day cinema, the Homer/Merlin. The creator of myth and of magic for our time. Remember: Movies = Magic. It's easily done, anyone who can work ideas of the Force, Jedi, love, hate in mainstream culture has to be pretty fucking talented. No argument.
For all you people who say oh it's just the first film. Guess what fans like me don't care. Oh, I forgot, patience. Well you know what? Fuck patience. Do something, say something.
If you still think my comments are outrageous, then email me and I'll break down scene by scene how TPM could have been better and why there was not excuse why it shouldn't have been.
But then why do I care or any of us (True Fans)? I'm just a person whose parents showed it to me when I was a little kid and who fell in love with lightsabers.
By the way thanks 'True Fan' Harry for having posts like these. They kick ass.
Oh one more thing:
By the way to finally settle this whole Anakin casting thing, figure it out, Lucas, Robin or whoever is in charge of casting. Start watching Japanime films like Fist of the North Star (not for plot, even though it is somewhat entertaining) cause that's the body (with right Anakin face, of course) you need to start sculpting right now at Skywalker Ranch, cause if anyone believes these Leo shits, Johnathan, Ryans... or whoever, I don't even fucking know... are going to pull off, potentially, the most dominating figure ever in cinema (Anakin) then you better put a gun to your head and pull the trigger... cause all my young male friends and young women friends will be laughing their asses off when the next episode comes out... (Pause) Wait, I sort of do hope Leo gets the role, it'll give me and my buddies something to laugh about till the day we die. I've yet to see one face rumored to be Anakin that even remotely looks like a man-to-be. Really people, they're all pussies. The real Anakin would destroy these boys with a finger. You should not be looking for a just pretty face, you should be looking for a fucking warrior.
Shit, got go, the SDF-1 is under attack, got to launch skull squadron. Here's some advice: War is a bloody affair, but if you're there long enough, the war becomes home, and the battle becomes your friend. Who can really hang?
Later,
Roy Fokker -
All the little details in TPM, are why I liked it the more and more I watched it. (I think I'm up to 16 times now)
The thing is, people can't get past the flaws. No, Jar Jar was not the problem at all. He was comic relief.
Every weakness TPM had was directly related to Anakin. 1. His line reads were bad 40% of the movie. 2. His Slavery didn't seem bad at all. He had it better than Luke! 3. The setup for the race & the bet for his freedom was weak. 4. He never demonstrates his force abilities except in the psychic tests. 5. His mother was pretty dull in her scenes 6. He accidentally blows up the control ship, making him not a hero, but a clutz like JarJar.
Thank god the weak link of TPM will not be in anymore Starwars movies. From here on out, it's an adult Anakin. And he is going to kick some ass. -
To those who loved TPM and listed the writers and philosophers as influences.
Youre definitely entitled to your opinion, but I seriously believe that you are basically in denial. It seems your hopes were crushed so badly that you have resorted to defending the movie by attempting to analyze every single aspect of it. Come out of the closet and face the fact that the movie was extremely one-dimensional and should really only be taken at face value. WHO CARES ANYWAY. THE LORD OF THE RINGS WILL COMPLETELY DESTROY ANY OF THE STAR WARS MOVIES.
Your loving mother, Frank -
Nice job spoiling FIGHT CLUB ending! What was good about it, you ask? It was entertainment. pure and simple. thats all. No sanskrit. No tattoos on the walls. no sybolic hooded cloaks. thats all. a movie - just like star wars.------------------- You say "GET PAST IT" I could hardly get passed your long-assed post. ------------------ BUT LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION ; who's yer daddy?
-
Well, I'm officially withdrawing from this argument, NOT because I admit defeat, of which I will no doubt be accused, but because this is an unending discussion; I'm not going to be able convince you that I'm not a sub-literate goon who wouldn't recognize a work of artistic genius if it slapped all its symbolism and allegory in my drooling face any more than you'll convince me that you're not a tragically misguided pseudo-intellectual who's attributing heaps of non-existent connotation to a vapid piece of non-entertainment that's shallower than a half-filled children's wading pool. It won't end, and we'll STILL be pointlessly bickering about it all the way up until Episode 2 comes out. Frankly, I've got better things to talk about, so I'm out. And please don't claim victory on this, either. I'm certainly not. I'll call it stalemate. How's that?
-
King Crimson: I realize it's only a typo, so please do not take this as a criticism at all, but "burt your bubble" is unintentionally hilarious.
-
Nov 24, 1999 8:15:25 AM CST
Some of what Orpheus said was quite good; shame he's so far up h
by i'malanpartridge
I especially like his comments on the dialogues irony, etc. However some on the dialogue was worse than shit! "Are you brain dead?" Nute Gunray (I think, when told to go and keep the Jedi waiting."
"Yippee!" (Anakin)
AND the exposition after after exposition after exposition (Good point whoever said that).
I think my favourite bet which I read at theforce.net (I took Orpheus advice, slightly) and which Dennis said about the Arthurian love triangle between Anakin, Amidala and Obi-Wan.
However I don't think that finding a foreign word for 'mischievous spirit' and anglicising it, is NECESSARILY proof that TPM is the greatest movie ever. OK, it shows thought and consideration for character and the big picture. But at the end of the day, no matter how much you dissect names, compare to centuries of mythology it does come down to glaring fact (and it hurts to admit as I do love the film) but TPM wasn't *that* great. It lacked. And it was as film Orpheus, not a philosophical tract. The Fight Club comments seem a little obtuse as well, for all your insight into StarWars.
Do you think Fincher was telling people to start Fight CLubs, or saying it was right that it happened? It happened within the context of FICTION to show what emptiness drives people to; namely more emptiness. They tried to escape their drudgery by following Durden and becoming Space Monkeys. Norton hated them, yet he wa their leader at the same time. It wasn't about ending capitalism; part of it was about how we deal with an emptiness inside us; be it fighting or regurgitating other people's opinions parrot fashion. -
All you Anti-Ep1 guys just chill! Damn, as soon as I turn my back all you guys start getting spacisms because (gasp!) EP1 is getting another showing! OK! SO WHAT! If you guys didn't like the movie, all you had to do was just say so at the beginning and let it go, there's no need to crucify it for another million years for God's sake! What some people will do for publicity these days, tut tut. Yes, I loved the movie and I'm seriously considering it as my favourite of the lot so far (but Han will always be the best character of course). And one more thing, great post Natalie, it's about time somebody defended us fans who are still loyal to the Star Wars saga, good on yer girl, hope to hear more from you in future. What's this about Red Dwarf (aka the greatest sitcom ever) becoming a movie next year?! Great! I can't wait! Any news on the new Blackadder series?
-
"...And see, if you pause it just as Sebulba's pod racer crashes and advance it frame-by-frame, you can clearly see that the patterns of debris flying through the air spell out "I BURIED PAUL"..."
-
Funny, Countzero. Just can't leave this argument, can you? Well, it is fun. ANyway, I never thought you were a subliterate goon. I thought it was cool you actually took the time to look up what I said. And, I guess I apologize to all the Fight Club fans. It was okay, and I wouldn't mind seeing it again. TPM was just light years better, IMO, for the the reasons I've been listing. And thanks to those of you who have enjoyed my ramblings. For the rest of you ... Let me get this straight. It's okay to dissect TPM a million different ways, to run it into the ground, to view it through a million different microscopic lenses, to analyze and
and analyze it and agonize over every frame, over every line delivery ... as long as you're doing so to criticize it. BUT - lo and behold, someone like me comes along and use basically the same kind of analytical mentality to a yield a positive effect, and I'm totally out of my little mind. WHAT? WHy shold I not be allowed to share some of my insights here, and defend my favorite movie against those who would villify it. I wish you could all see what I see. KingCrimson, it is the Holy Grail, and I do not need to get a life. I have a life, thank you, very much. My posts prove that. I view life the same way I view TPM. Chances are, YOU'RE the one that doesn't know what life is. You're not alive. You make walk and talk and chew bubblegum, you may have a pulse and a heartbeat, but that's not being alive. Passion is being alive. And passion for a movie qualifies too. There's no doubt, when the dust settles, TPM will be viewed as a masterpiece. And I'm not the one, incidentally, that started this Second Coming crap. Hell, even Newsweek ran an article about TPM with that as the title. So did creative loafing. And it was a second coming, a time of spiritual and emotional renewal. You might not have been cuaght up in the rapture, but maybe that's because your heart wasn't in the right place. I'm speaking metaphorically, of course, but I think it works. And SW is not my religion, incidentally, Romanticism is. But that doesn't mean it won't qualify for religion status in a few centuries. Nothing can make this kind of cultural impact and just be forgotten. It's just a movie? So, by that logic, the Bible is just a book? Logic has to apply equally. Yet how can something that has informed and inspired the lives of millions of people be considered such? It is life, and it yields life. You need to read a book on Romantic criticism by Meyer Abrams called The Mirror and the Lamp. It talks about perception, a lot, and how we actually add on, and "half create," what we percieve. Especially in relation to art. I mean, Lucas was friends with and the protege of JOSEPH CAMPBELL! Campbell was only one of the greatest scholars of this century! So how could Lucas' work not reflect that. You just have to open up a little bit. And why don't I "shave my head, and go be a disciple to my master Lucas"? That is SO not the point. That is just an incoherent response altogether. I think the man's a genuis, no doubt. A Shakespeare, a Mozart. But I don't worship him. And he obviously can and does make mistakes. Just not in SW. When I called him a prophet earlier, I meant it more like "vates," which was a Roman word that meant both prophet and poet. I don't think the two are as exclusive as many would have you believe. -
...that's a wrap. Man, I always get here after a thousand posts have been posted.
-
... thanks oripheus! I now see the light. Hallelujah & Praise the almighty LUCAS! Wait - Titanic also made billions & influenced the masses . . . & ET too. I can now see the afterlife - one big happy family - JarJar & Leo playing shuffleboard on that big titanic in the sky. & that mushroom headed ET sitting in the corner with that long bony finger up his ass................. HEY COUNTZERO - you win the "longest sentence" award 93 WORDS. Next time, lose the contractions & you'll hit 100! ..................... oh, and oripheus .... I AM yer daddy.
-
Nov 24, 1999 3:41:59 PM CST
Ah ha Orpheus is too damn funny! Now let me tell you all about m
by big jim slade
Mannequin 2. I have heard so many people put this incredible film down. Those people are just ignorant, fascists. I have discussed this movie thoroughly with some of todays most renowned philosophers, who wish to keep their names held secret. However some of these names always seem to pop up whenever we begin to discuss the life-giving aura that is, Mannequin 2. These names include, Christ/Hitler/William Blake/Jack London/Wordsworth/Willa Cather/Ezra Pound/John Keats/Robert Browning/Ted Hughes/Robert Frost/Poe, and so many more. If you did not find Mannequin 2 to be the most awe inspiring film ever to grace celluloid, then you are obviously not as enlightened or intellectual as I am. The reason so many people feared this movie from the beginning is due to the culture shock that it caused. Mannequin 2 forced us to rethink our beliefs and question reality. Mannequin 2 shall go down through the ages as the movie that revolutionized the 20th century and brought about all the changes that we now see in our modernized world. Not since Romeo and Juliette has the tale of star crossed lovers been so personified as it was in Mannequin 2. This movie would make Shakespeare tremble with delight. I wish to put praise upon Stewart Rafill for allowing me to be present during the creation of this masterpiece. It is as if I am being allowed to see the heavens collide with darkness and create the universe. In Mannequin 2 we are presented with the romantic tale of a boy forced to choose between various roads of desire. Will he choose Hollywood, played by Meshach Taylor, the mannequin, or the woman transformed from the mannequin. Hollywood's name obviously points to the fact that in Hollywood, greed and dreams are found and lost. However, Hollywood the man points to the homosexual desires that William Ragsdale obviously is tormenting with. Will Ragsdale reach for his homosexual desires and find the richness and glamour that lie in Hollywood, or will he reach for his ideal woman cast in wood. If you do not feel this is what the movie is, you are wrong and obviously less intelligent than I. I have seen this movie 500 times, and each time I fall in love with every single frame that flickers by. Mannequin 2 has successfully changed the world as we know it, and shall go down in history for this. Just wait till I tell you of the joys that Weekend At Bernies 2 has brought my sad and lonely life. GOT THAT ORPHEUS, YOU CAN MAKE THE CORN IN YOUR SHIT SOUND LIKE THE FUCKING JEWELS ON THE CROWN OF GOD IF YOU TRY HARD ENOUGH!
-
Nov 24, 1999 4:54:43 PM CST
BADA_BING ORPHEUS! EAT MY GOAL! and orpheus has got talkback pie
by i'malanpartridge
You only increase your twattishness with each post. Big Jim Slade: right on!
I don't really have the emotional strength after reading your posts over the past few days to communicate how I regard what you've said.
You could be the biggest piss-taker in the history of my TalkBack experience - if so, I salute you - Good job. You have very originally portrayed someone rapidly losing their grip on reality.
What you fail to realise that however much intellectual bullshit you force on to the film, it still wasn't a great film. Can you honestly tell me it was your favourite film of all time? In order to be rated in history something needs to say something decent AND SAY IT WELL. If someone needs a degree in Bullshit, Boulderdash and the History of Philosophy to understand the Phantom Menace - COUNT ME OUT. The Bible is not only seen as the Book of God by millions but is also good literature containing history, law, poetry, prophecy and God knows what else. And it's the word of God. TPM may be the Word of Lucas, but it's pretty crap for a divine message.
Ever heard of reading too much into something? I don't mean to say reading too much into something is wrongv - if you benefit from your interpretation FINE. But to attribute it ALL to lUCAS is ludicrous. William Golding replied to the opinon that Ralph in Lord of the Flies (not rings sorry) was an allegory for Christ by refuting it as a purposeful meaning.
In conclusion, I think what you have to say sounds interesting but ultimately you have presented it in a way that makes you look like a wanker and Lucas sound like God. As for comparing him to Mozart... -
Big Jim Slade: I laughed my arse clean off at your in-depth analysis of Mannequin 2. Bonus points for knowing the director's name. Several hats off to you, mate.
-
It's also true that if you play Phantom Menace backwards the reversed soundtrack is actually George Lucas' suberversive message to the world a la Fight Club. Perhaps they're not so disimilar...
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I mean really, these arguments are totally pointless! Nobody's gonna convince anyone else. I loved TPM and will gladly see it another 2 billion times; others think it's the worst pile of maggot-ridden doo-doo this side of the American Godzilla flick and have a Mafia contract out on the software that creates Jar-Jar. Whoopie. WhatEVER. Me, I'm gonna go catch the new Bond this Thanksgiving, cum the moment Denise Richards appears onscreen and wait for Ep. II and Lord Of The Rings. Chao, baby.
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I'm not contesting the qualities of TPM - I liked it. I am contesting Orpheus' assertion that the film we know and love/hate is a philosophical enigma of which only he has the key to crack the code. And to compare Lucas to Shakespeare...
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Harry, every point you made was valid and true.
Your review is posted, so I know your feelings toward EOne in general. . . but I have to say this. . .
I will always see EOne as a weak film - until a 3 hour directors cut comes out, no matter what else happens in the next 2 films. The film, as presented to us, was just lacking in basic storytelling and (in a few places) editing. As a first chapter, it is a incomplete introduction - the opening crawl included. If I didn't already know SW lore, I'd be a little lost watching this film. Who are these Jedi, and why do they exist, and how many of them are there? This film should have set up the rules of the universe - like The Matrix did - and then continued to build from that.
You get the idea.
I'm praying Lucas gets a good script editor for the next film. -
Nov 25, 1999 2:46:07 PM CST
Star Wars= successful attempt to reach into the pocket of the av
by elwe singollo
And all who take these films seriously mistake George Lucas' feces for chocolate. WAKE UP!!! George Lucas is a second-rate artist with virtually no originality and still less respect for you. The man deserves to be publicly humiliated.
-
Save your breath - you'll never convince this crowd of hate filled, cynical people that TPM was a good flick. Hey - earth to Hate Mongers: Some of us actually ***ENJOYED*** the movie! News flash: Not only did I like it, my parents, AND my friends all liked it! (Hell - I'll actually go out on a limb, and PROCLAIM LOUDLY TO THE WORLD - I LIKE AR-JAR!!!) Not everyone is as twisted and bitter as this gang of Grinches.
*********************************
I suspect that the problem here is that EVERYONE went into this movie expecting the second coming of Christ, a blow job during the pod race and a free bar of gold on the way out of the theater. Not that any of the bile filled hate-mongers would own up to it or anything.
*********************************
So - screw you all. I will go see Episode II with eyes unclouded by hate. Meanwhile, you guys can just wallow in your anger, save your money for Police Academy IX, and leave me alone.
-
Whomever it was that mentioned above that to hold any opinion, positive or negative, on this film is to suffer outrageous criticism is seeing his point illustrated beautifully here. Just because I (and whomever agrees with me) didn't like this one bloody movie does not make me a bitter, twisted hate filled monster capable only of spitting venom; it merely makes me someone who didn't like a movie (for which I can provide many clear and reasonable arguments). Stop with this attitude that we have no joy in our lives because we didn't like bloody Star Wars. And this crack about saving our money for Police Academy movies is just ridiculous; you imply that anyone who didn't like Episode One is a moron who only enjoys inane drivel. And as for the "my gang's bigger than your gang" tactic of bringing up your friends and family as "proof" that people liked it, so what? *MY* friends all thought it was rubbish. It's pointless to bring up; scroll up and read all these posts; it's about a fifty-fifty split. I'm glad you enjoyed it, but if I tell you why I didn't, don't label me a hate-monger.
-
Okay, first off, I read my first post. All those poets and philosphers and stuff I mentioned - I didn't come up with all of that. That was the work of an entire forum over the past few months. It's not that I'm Superintellectual Man, and only I can Crack the TPM Code. No, quite a few other people have to. The ones who WANT to understand it and get the most amount of appreciation out of it. Second off - Happy Thanksgiving.
-
Well Orpheus, as I also said. I did not come up with all of the names of those leaders, writers, and poets by myself either. There were numerous philosophers that I worked with in my interpretation of Mannequin 2: On the Move. However, unlike yourself, I am not about to take back what I said. If you do not agree with my opinion of Mannequin 2, you are a fool. Bow down before me and feel my wrath. As for CountZero's remark. Speak for yourself damnit. I, and everyone else that disagrees with someone's opinion of a movie is obviously a demon of the nether world. Instead of eating popcorn during movies, we drink the blood of innocent children while we criticize movies. In fact, everyone who disagrees with your opinion is a bloodthirsty savage. To phrase things as Orpheus would, or for those of you who are not the elite, intellectual hybrid that watches Star Wars 30 times; All talk backers are equal, but some talck backers are more equal than others.
-
Who is George Lucas?
-
Orpheus - it's great that you and your friends can uncover so many hidden layers in TPM - looking for meaning and symbolism in movies, music, or art of any kind is something I appreciate and enjoy doing, as well as reading about what others have found in the art. The insight of you and others is fascinating and I wish I had the time and inclination to participate. However, I don't have the inclination because I didn't find that TPM was that good of a movie (having the time is another issue altogether). Take a look back to why we started analysing these films as mythic storytelling in the first place - it's because film pundits - and the film industry - wanted to know why it was such a huge commercial and cultural success. At which point Lucas brought up the whole Joseph Campbell "Power of Myth" connection, and ever since the academics have been analysing the movies to death. But the fact is that if Episode 4 had not been a huge commercial success, few people would be taking such a keen interest in the philosophies and myth behind it. Episode 4 had terrific chemistry between both the actors and the characters (and yes, stoic characters can have chemistry), excellent pacing, character-driven and situational humor rather than "tacked-on" humor, and mind-blowing special effects that focused the audience on the story rather than distracting them from the story. Since, in my opinion, TPM was lacking in these basic elements that make a good movie, I was never driven to go back and watch it 30 times to pick up on the subtleties that you and your friends have discovered (I only saw it twice, and the second time was because I had to kill a couple hours while my car was being serviced). I'm sure Lucas planned a lot of the things you guys have picked out, and probably some of the things you find have been "read into it" (nothing wrong with that) but I really think that if not for the legacy of the original trilogy TPM would have come and gone without a lot of analysis. And sure it made a bundle of money and is the biggest movie of the year, but if not for its legacy it probably would have been a hit on the par with "Wild Wild West," and "The Sixth Sense" would be the biggest-grossing movie of the year - not that box office has anything to do with a movie being good, but you point to this in some of your arguments as a evidence that it's a good movie. But look at it this way - I have one of those 3-D pictures hanging on the wall at work - the type where you look closely at the pattern until you see what appear to be 3-D images (which are really illusions) emerging from the pattern. While seeing this image takes some skill and is a real treat once you get the hang of it, the truth is that the print itself is not that good as a work of art - in fact, it looks like a framed carpet sample. That's how I feel about all this analysis of TPM. Or it's kinda like declaring the "Where's Waldo" pictures are great works of art just because you can find Waldo. Desslok - I intend to see both of the next two episodes with an open mind. While I didn't care for TPM, it still sets up intriguing possibilities for the next two installments. Frankly, I am hoping that they are excellent movies so that the apparent flaws in TPM become more evident. Big Jim - Excellent riff! I'm glad to see the much-maligned Manaquin 2 fans coming out of the closet to declare this movie as the classic that it is!
-
The "charity" angle is a red herring. Nothing is going out into wide release next Friday (12/3). This is another way for Fox and Lucasfilm to squeeze the last drop of milk out of an overhyped piece of crap.
It also gives the corporate media, lazy as it is, another reason to beat the drums for something that should have been out on video by now.
Fox won't be able to get any decent NYC theaters for this re-release. Loews' ban on Fox product in Manhattan is still in effect; the Ziegfeld is showing "End of Days"; the Union Square has 007, "End of Days", "Pokemon", and a few movies getting a one-week Oscar-qualifying run.
I saw Episode 1 on the original day of release (5/19) at the Loews Theatres New Brunswick (NJ). The audience behaved like it was the studio audience for a sitcom--and they deserved it. -
I don't see how people can accuse Lucas of such horrible intentions. Yes, I'm sure he is doing this in part to bring up the total box office take.. but all the proceeds, as in 100%, all of it, everything, is going to charity.. and not charity selected by Lucas or Fox. LOCAL THEATER OWNERS select the charity. Jesus H. Christ why must people be filled with such vitriole at all things Lucas? Can we not give the man credit for a deed which harms none and will presumably help many? If you don't want to go see it again, by all means do not clutter the theaters. But try and give credit where it is due.
Sheesh. -
Lucas is certainly not an "evil" man, and it's commendable that the proceeds will be donated to charities, but it's no more cynical to suggest that he's only trying to boost the overall revenue of his product than it is naive to believe there isn't any kind of ulterior motive at work; my assumption, based on the proximity to the holiday season, is that the hidden agenda is to provide parents with a last-minute reminder of all those unsold toys on the shelves at Toys R Us. I would imagine that profits from toy sales MAY very well exceed whatever box office revenues may be sacrificed to charity...Also, he's the most visible figure, so it's easy to point the finger, but this cannot be solely attributed to Lucas. I'm quite sure there are other people in the chain who contributed to the plan, perhaps with less noble intentions than George.
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...it's all the same shit in a different Talk Back when it comes to TPM, though I did enjoy Harry's comments on the Episodes being linked together. If Jar Jar becomes tragic....then is it possible also for there to be a link to those furry little Ewoks in 6 that would make them likable to those who didn't like them? (I was a kid, they were cute, sue me!) OR...could a likable character like Chewie suddenly be turned unlikable in our eyes because of things Lucas plants in the next two movies....I'm scaring myself, I must stop!
-
Would it not have been helpful to target the planet itself instead of the moon where the rebel base was? There is no way that the moon or the base could have survived. Not that they would have cared about preserving the planet, after wiping out Alderaan the way they did. Also, what's the story with that bloody severed arm? When Lukes arm gets cut off, he doesn't even get blood on his shirt when he clutches his stump after Vader so gracefully carves it off. Hypothetical Matchup: Vader vs. Maul - Vader would kick his ass!
-
STAR WARS RULES.
Eat breathe shit star wars.
Jar Jar Rules!
The Foce is strong with this one. -
Nov 29, 1999 3:40:13 PM CST
...and I always will be - SO I AM THE FINAL WORD ON EVERYTING.
by im your daddy
-
Considering it is a gas giant, the reulting release of energy would have damaged the Death Star provided it was a safe distance away. Aside from that, good point. ...As far as no blood on Lukes sleeve, the lightsaber would have cauterized(sp?) the wound, resulting in little if no blood loss
-
Y'know, from a writers standpoint, a character like Jar Jar probably HAS TO EXIST. Think about it, when Lucas sat down to write a new trilogy, he had to cook up a new "alien sidekick" figure to replace Chewbacca.
So, he comes up with a character that's a polar opposite to Chewbacca. Whereas Chewie is cool, with a bad attitude and mechanical aptitude, Jar Jar is decidedly "uncool", dorky, and clumsy. It was the original thing to do.
So, my beef isn't the character in theory, but how poorly he's depicted. Instead of just settling for a coupla scenes where its established that the little bastard is clumsy, we are subjected to endless scenes where he undermines the efforts of good actors like Liam Neeson and Natalie Portman. Always squalking, breaking shit and being generally hateful. If he had just remained IN THE BACKGROUND MORE!
Bottom line is, you can't slight Lucas for trying something new. You CAN take exception to his lack of subtely. The movie can't be filled with all Boba Fetts and Darth Mauls; this just isn't Star Wars. I just wish Lucas would listen to his own inner critic and HIRE A DAMNED SCREENPLAY DOCTOR.
Whew, now I know why people leave posts here. It feels good to get it all off your chest, don't it? -
Biotch!
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