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LORD OF THE RINGS casting: DENETHOR
One of our guys out there in the world of cyberspace emailed Deluca about the casting on Denethor in LORD OF THE RINGS and ol Billy Cutshaw got an answer out of Deluca.
It isn't nailed down yet, but they are thinking and looking at casting Donald Sutherland as Denethor. This hasn't been locked down in stone yet, and he hasn't signed. It's just the thoughtline on who they may be going with at the moment. Just figured I'd pass that along to you good folks...
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That is so perfect! Donald Sutherland rocks. The only question I have is why this was not decided upon six weeks ago when the supposedly "complete" casting list was posted everywhere...I thought it sounded strange to have every single actor/actress cast before making an official announcement, but it seems they did not even follow that line in light of this new mention...
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It's too late at night and I can't be too coherent or witty. But I don't need to be, this time of night finds me in a pure, fragile, childlike state. When I saw that posting, the remotest hint that The Eye-Bags man himself, Mr. Hawkeye Pierce (No, the movie version, you fools!!), the Canadian Robert Mitchum, the Body-snatched Buffy trainer himself (no, the movie version, you fools!!) one of my FAVORITE ACTORS could be in the movie of one of my FAVORITE BOOKS, that was it. I wept. Like a baby. My tears are spilling onto the keyboard now. Ow, I just electrocuted myself. Hope he gets it. Hope it gives his career an Anthony Hopkins-style makeover! Mind you, he's slotted to be in a play in Toronto that I'm getting tickets to, so he'd better not run off to New Zealand leaving me watching some understudy.
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Good Actor...Right Look....Cool.
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I just hope to god it happens, and that we get to see Sutherland as Denethor. He is a superb actor and fits the "look" of Boromir and Faramir. This is too good!!!
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Ecthelion was a great Elf-lord of Gondolin who slew, and was slain by Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs in the sack of the city near the end of the First Age. DMFC...Shut up or grow up. Socialism......Puleeeeze!
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That would be Illuvatar Himself, unless I'm missing something. The Balrogs or Valaraukar were Maiar who were corrupted by Melkor. Is this a trick question? As for you NeofreemaN, you seem to be just full of compassion.....or excrement. Either way, go do your homework or your mommy will punish you.
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Aye, the father, or should we say creator of Gothmog would indeed be Illuvatar. Eru, the One. He that is alone. Gothmog, and all the Balrog were Maiar spirits... they were of the Ainur that Eru created along with the Valar before the world began. In fact, they helped to imagine Ea, the World that Is. OK. As for you DMFC, grow up, eh? You have a right to not like Tolkien, but likewise we have a right against stupidity. You give trolls a bad name, and that's pretty darn difficult to do.
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I was having a perfectly pleasant Saturday morning. now I'm going crazy rifling through Unfinished Tales. Thanks morGy. Just where does Tolkien write that Morgoth was Gothmog's father? I don't remember reading that anywhere and that's the kind of thing that would stick in my head! Just who would the mother be? Ungoliant? Yeccch! Bestiality of the most vile sort!
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all you LORD OF THE RINGS fans, have you voted for the next guess screenplay at www.greenlightscafe.com?
Since New Line are so secretive about the scripts, they guys are guessing at a big action scene. Read the quest leaves Rivendell action sequence
And cast your vote for the next one -
Donald Sutherland? As Denethor? He may slightly look the part, but let us not forget that the man is a terrible actor. Yes, he was good in "Ordinary People," but that was 20 years ago. Here is a list of Sutherland's recent string of "hits": Instinct, Virus, Fallen, A Time to Kill, Outbreak, Disclosure, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Backdraft. Need I say more? And more importantly, the man was terrible in most if not all of those movies. I guess Peter O'Toole, John Gielgud, Anthony Hopkins, and Max Von Sydow were unavailable for a few weeks' work. So who do we call next for the incredible role of Denethor? I know, that multi-Oscared, brilliant actor Donald Sutherland! He'll be great. While we're at it, we can kick out Sean Bean and get Sutherland's son Kiefer to play Boromir! Fantastic! We're all set now. Donald has great range as an actor. Didn't you just love his portrayal of the old, grumpy, alcoholic mentor in A Time To Kill? I also loved him as the old, grumpy, alcoholic mentor in Instinct. And did you see him in Disclosure? He was wonderful as the old, grumpy, alcoholic mentor. And who could forget him in Backdraft? I've never seen a better portrayal of an old, grumpy, alcoholic mentor. Up until this point, Liv Tyler was my least favorite casting choice in LOTR, but Liv is Meryl Streep compared to Donald Sutherland. A horrid, horrid casting decision and I sincerely hope that he does not get, or take, the part.
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That would be in The Book of Lost Tales: Part I, not Unfinished Tales. You can find it at the bottom of page 98. "Melko has a son ('by Ulbandi') called Kosomot: this, it will emerge later, was Gothmog Lord of the Balrogs, whom Ecthelion slew in Gondolin."
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Hmm... well, you know, if that Morgoth-is-the-father-of-Gothmog thing did in fact originate from the Book of Lost Tales, then I've gotta say that its veracity with regard to Tolkien canon is suspect. That being because Lost Tales is a collection of extremely early writings of his with early story elements that underwent massive changes and revisions later. I mean, who is Ulbandi, for instance? And is it even possible for the Valar to have children? What would the children be? Certainly not Valar, and it wouldn't make much sense for them to be Maiar, as Gothmog and the Balrogs were. The only instance I can think of one of the Ainur bearing children was Melian, who gave birth to Luthien. But then again, the father was Thingol, a mortal (as in the sense that he was a Child of Illuvatar and subject to death, as opposed to a demi-god spirit as was Melian). The Balrogs as a race were Maiar... the bottom line is that it doesn't make sense that a child of Melkor (who was not of that race) would produce a Balrog. Unless of course, Ulbandi was a Balrog. (Female balrogs, that's an interesting thought). It's just too weird. If I want to see satanic spirits having sex, I'll go watch End of Days.
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Not to stray too far from the subject, but did anyone catch last week's episode of "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?" The one contestant failed to distinguish Frodo from a list of 3 other characters that were Pokemon characters! He could have won another $250,000 if he'd read up on his Tolkein! What a boob.
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I hope the movie doesn't watch like the first part of the Bible too...
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Dude, you say J.R. Tolken is a hack and that he sucks, yet you obviously haven't read his novels man, because you said the ending sucks "from what I've heard". Man, you are sooo trippin. READ THE BOOK YOURSELF!
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I was actually thinking of Nicol Williamson for that role but I like Sutherland,even if he is Canadian hehe.Along the same sort of unhinged lines.Doesnt look much like Bean or Hawke though.I dont mind the casting of americans as long as its consistent,it seems men will be americans [if Bean can do the accent],dwarves welsh [Rhys Davies IS welsh I presume],elves British [Tyler can do Brit accent],wizards oxford english-an idea I heartily agree with and hobbits a compromise ie one Wood Astin Boyn Holm and Monaghan can all do
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Hell be great playing a battle of wits with McKellen [they were both in 6 degres of separation]
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O.K., Pippin. He was bad in Virus, I'll give you that. But bad in an entertaining John Voight-Anaconda kind of way. (There wouldn't have been any laughs in Anaconda without Voight) Donald is one of those GREAT ACTORS who does bad movies a la Richard Burton and Marlon Brando. But even these days he's not squandering his talent all the time. In the past twenty years we've had Six Degrees of Seperation and one of his greatest performances, in Bethune (check it out). Sometimes, though, when I think of Fellini's Casanova... I too feel doubt.
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Wizards! As I am but a youngster, I haven't had the privilege of seeing that in the theatre, and I was put off by the awful reviews this film got, but man! when I finally saw it on video, I was pleasantly surprised. Eclectic, hilarious, visceral, with hints of that 'peace and love' thing from the sixties we childs of the nineties have heard so much about... That film shared a defect with Fritz the Cat: losing focus and interest in the last half... Lord of the Rings magnified that Bakshian trait very crudely! *** Don't you believe what you read from the Lost Tales, Melko.. or was it Melkor? In earlier Silmarillions, that Herald of Manw
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Stamp would be perfect. An audience would take him much more seriously than Sutherland. Stamp sounds better, looks better...And it's not a long shoot for Denethor. By the way, who the heck is going to play Theoden and Eomer?
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Donald Sutherland a bad actor? Good god. Lord knows he's had a hell of a lot of bad ROLES lately, but Denethor is anything but a bad role. Even if he is the kind of actor who's only good in a good character, that's nothing to worry about here. Have you people ever seen M*A*S*H? Like, the REAL M*A*S*H, not the fuzzy-wacky-zany-lovable TV shit version of M*A*S*H? It's one of the best movies of all time. If you haven't seen it, you should. And Sutherland was exquisite, just exquisite, I can't even tell you how much the character lost when taken over by Alan Alda. I love this casting idea. Let's pray it comes to fruition, eh? (See, I'm Canadian too. Makes me biased. But still.)
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I know a certain European girl who can tell you about that. Don't provoke her, you'll regret it!!
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Donald a bad actor? Nah. Don't judge him by his last few films - the guy has been semi-retired for years, popping in on movie sets for a day or two of shooting and then picking up the check. He's done enough great work in the past, and doesn't have to prove anything to anybody (including ignoramuses like you). He'll make a great Denethor. As for Socialism, if you mean "early" Socialism, then sure - it deals with such thing as labour unions, health care and social security, all things the US need a bit more of. But if by Socialism you mean Marxism, well ... it'll never work in the US, because it's based on Marx's theories of social classes and Americans think of themself as a classless society. I'm not saying that the U.S. IS a classless society - there's no such thing - but it's a fluid system, and Americans don't define themselves by class (multimilionaires act like "normal guys" and call themselves "wll-to-do", while calling someone poor "lower class" will get you smacked). Why screw the rich, when tomorrow I'll get my big break and be rich myself?
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Socialism is an ideology heading for the dustbin of history. It is inevitable.
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There are better choices than D Sutherland, i think. Many of them already mentioned here.*** The casting of Elrond ought to be up soon. Any news of that? I mean, he's in the first part, so they must have offered it to someone?
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Well cool idea with Donald as Denethor ... Can't wait to see him torch himself ... I mean he is an experienced arsonist anyways ... *Backdraft* ... :o)
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I was really pulling for Warner to have this role, but Donald Sutherland fits too. He has the right voice and demeanor. As for his recent string of flops- one could blame it more on the material than on him. There are some roles too crappy for any actor to make anything of (except for James Woods.)
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First of all, how did this topic ever work its way into a "Donald Sutherland may or may not play Denethor" rumor piece? On to the subject at hand. Socialism, as outlined by Marx, was a idealistic concept based on inequities seen in the 19th century industrialized countries. Communism, founded in Russia, by Lenin, is a variation from Socialism, borrowing from Marx's views, but adapting them loosely to a situation for which Marx never intended his theory. Marx was speaking of Industrialized England, while Lenin (and later Mao) tried to impose a variation of Socialism on agrarian societies. Further, Marx, in examining social needs in England, envisioned change from a true capitalist/democratic system, while Lenin attempted to impose his system on a society with no true capitalism and an autocratic government. Therefore, Socialism has never actually been instituted in the history of mankind. It remains an untested theory. Communism has been tested and, as anyone who has studied current conditions in Russia and Eastern Europe can tell you, has failed miserably. Would Socialism fail? Probably, for two reasons. First, the economies and governments of today bear little resemblance to those of Industrial Age England, so Marx's theory would be as out of place in the US now as it was in Russia of 1917. Second, Marx's theory depends on a society with very few "free riders" (people who allow society to provide them with more than they provide society). Call me a pessimist, but I think the free rider problem would be too large for Marxism to overcome. Sorry this post fails to be inflammatory, but I could not, with any self respect, fall to the level of idioticy such as, "racism is a system instituted by the government." What a powerful government that would be, to instill something as basic as xenophobia so deeply in the nature of mankind.
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Let me guess, you are a high school or college student who has a teacher/professor who still lives in the 60's and thinks he's a radical. I know many like them. Their arguements don't stand up to the clear light of day. THINK ON YOUR OWN! Don't quote some revisionist history title as if it were the word of God and tell everyone to read it. Any economic or political system that removes free enterprise and/or personal gain from the equation is doomed to failure. What is my incentive to do a better job than the next guy? The betterment of humanity?!? Pleeeeeze! People work hard to try to make a better life for themselves and their families. When you get out in the real world and hold down a real job for a few years you will realize this. Until then, stop embarrassing yourself. Oh...MORGy, I think you owe me that trip to Valinor. The "History of Middle Earth" series shouldn't really count since these were early revisions that were later modified by Tolkien. After all, in early drafts Strider(Trotter) was a hobbit etc...
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See, I knew right off the bat you were a student. You will learn the way things work when you get into the real world. And as for your analysis of me--way off! I am a hard-working but underpaid civil servant in a very liberal city. And once again, you don't have much of anything to say in regard to how Socialism could possibly work in this country. You just rant. Racism and the Middle Class were created by the government? Did they have Tinkerbell wave her magic wand or what? Read your history. There has been a middle class in most societies ever since humans started living in towns and cities 6 thousand years ago. And racism has been around at least as long. Yes, I am older than you and like most adults who hold down a real job and have mortgage payments etc., I came to the realization at some point that I don't know the answers to all the world's problems. In time, you will realize this too. In the meantime, think before you speak and back up what you say.
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Donald Southerland is a fine actor, and was perfect in M*A*S*H. He was also outstanding in Kelly's Heroes with Clint Eastwood. (Woof, woof). As for arguments over Socialism and Capitalism, it seems out of place here, especially since the individual espousing the socialist view thinks Tolkien is "trash". I suppose that any literature not written by Uncle Karl or his minions is trash. But frankly I'll take Groucho over Karl any time. Where's that damn duck?
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but I must. Donald Sutherland is cool, so I guess he'll work. But thats not what I want to post on. Socialism. Socialism is the ideal system. In a perfect world each nation would be socialist. Remember Earth according to Star Trek in the future? Socialist. Socialists are by nature, pacifists, except for one such group, the National Socialists. Yes kids, Nazis. But in practice, Nazis are facists, and facists are just a step more extreme than Right-Wingers. So, as I said, socialism is what this world needs, except for one tiny problem. Man is greedy. Humans are bastards by nature. Socialism and communism promote community. All races, genders, and sexual orientations are viewed as total equals. I consider myself to be socialist, yet unfortunately, I must act as a capitalist to survive. SKIORDIE or whatever your name is, to call us the bane of humanity is quite assinine. The true bane of humanity is fascism, which is in a way condoned by most religions (at least towards gays). Racism and bigotry are destroying the world, two things which a true socialist is against. Of course, these are mainly the social aspects of the system. In socialism, the producers possess political power and the means of producing and distributing goods. Thats a dictionary definition for ya. In reality, communism is the ideal system, but in the real world it doesn't work. But socialism can work. But then again, why should my opinions matter? I think the whole Cold War was pointless. The only thing good about it was the whole Cold War aspect brought into movies. And yes, I am an American, I am just not some brainwashed patriotic fanatic. So everyone can relax, loosen your sphincters. BTW, Europe rules. I've only been to Germany and the Netherlands for a few weeks, but I love Europe. Oh yeah, Russia's main problem (or so I've been told, I could be wrong) is not that communism destroyed them, its that they couldn't handle suddenly dropping communism because they had it for so long. So thats my rant. This has been another chapter in "My Slow Descent Into Madness" by me.
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DanMaunzFC (sp?), I was agreeing with almost everything you said. But veganism isn't that great. Don't get me wrong, I know a lot of vegetarians, and they're very nice, but the few vegans I know seriously piss me off. They give me all sorts of shit because I eat meat. I got news for them. Humans are OMNIVORES. We eat PLANTS and FLESH. Thats what we're supposed to do. Not only that, but its not like these animals are somebody's pet which some nasty meat corporation slaughters. Now, these animals are bred specifically to be eaten. Its almost as if they were never here at all. The meat industry raises their own animals. They can kill them if they want. And dairy products are essential (the vegans I know wont go near them). Milk commercials are some of the only ones that don't lie. But I have no problem with vegans or vegetarians, just don't tell ME not to eat meat. But then again, you could have been joking and I made another pointless post. Lets see, gotta be nearing chapter 13 by now...
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Hippies are nice people, I am not one, but I can relate to them. Rednecks suck though, believe me I know, I'm from VIRGINIA. I wasn't even in the "Cousin-Fuckin'" section. No, I'm from about 15 miles south of Washington, DC. and I still got riducled by rednecks. Some statistics to show you how I have faced plenty of shit and served my time. In a class of 100 students, we took a Political Spectrum test. It went from -160 to +160, negative being liberal, positive being conservative. Out of those hundred students, 12 got above 145, and the lowest was me with -80. So have some sympathy for me, I've put up with more shit the past 5 years than most others. Wait a minute, WHY THE FUCK DID I JUST WRITE THAT?!? Oh yeah, there's absolutely nothing to do (sad, theres nothing to do Saturday night, at college no less). Oh well. Like in Reservior Dogs: "you remember the fantastic four" "oh yeah, with invisible bitch, and, and FLAME ON." See the subliminal messaging :) Whats that noise?
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Here's the answer to the question of Gothmog's father. Neither The Silmarillion nor Unfinished Tales reference his lineage, only that he is Lord of the Balrogs and Angband's Lt. However, the index to Book of Lost Tales-volume II says that he is Melko's son. It actually says it in the text on page 183 right before detailing the Battle at the Fountain. But the Book of Lost Tales is basically a collection of rough drafts, so I don't know if you can call it the official version. Also The Silmarillion, in the description of the Enemies, indicates that the Balrogs were corrupted Maiar. Since Iluvatar created the Maiar, one could argue that he's Gothmog's father. Probably one of those points to argue in a chat room.
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Everyone stand back, give them room. It is obvious to even the most disinterested bystander that Eternal and DanMaunz are locked in some strange and unusual courting ritual. Alone and bitter, they grow more shrill and desperate sounding with each new post. Each is tortured, twisted, grasping....They suffer from the "Gollum Complex". I say again, Stand Back, Give Them Room. They must embrace and slink away to some dark, deep cavern, far from knowing eyes. There they can devour each other's thoughts in an orgy of vitriol, drowning in the vomit of their talkback. DanMaunzPrecious and EternalPrecious, together until the end, gnawing on the meatless bones of SarinRufus in the absolute darkness of their minds.
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When was this? Maybe I missed something. Perhaps you mean in the 1920s and 30s when Joe Stalin killed millions of peasants through forced collectivization. No, couldn't be that. Perhaps you mean the post WWII USSR which crushed popular liberation moviments in Eastern Europe. No, couldn't be that. Perhaps you mean the USSR of the 70s and 80s which polluted their own country to the extent that some parts of it may never be inhabitable. No, couldn't be that. I'm sorry, what do you mean? The USSR and its satellite nations had to employ barbed wire and shoot to kill orders to keep their people from defecting. What does that tell you? You say that you lived on the street and ate garbage and now you are a student in a good college? Sounds like you've come pretty far. Think about that before you bad-mouth this country.
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sniffing and whining after DanMaunz...What a moron.
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But I think that some people(myself included)have gotten way off track. Isn't this a LOTR talkback? We shouldn't be discussing vegetarianism and socialism. Instead we should discuss much more important things: Like who did Morgoth bang to produce Gothmog?
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Yes I am an idiot. I am praised for my opinions on other talkbacks, but flamed in LOTR ones. Its fun so I come back. BTW, is it just me, or do you ONLY post on LOTR talkbacks? Oh well, I don't care.
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Hey Elwe, remember all that fun with the gimp? Well, that wasn't too great for me, but wasn't that whole series of talkbacks great? You sent me in the box with the Gimp, then someone's like "Red's dead baby, Red's dead". Thats gold Jerry, gold!! Too bad its all deleted, I was having so much fun. Maybe I should start talking backwards again....hmmmm.....
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I had heard that They might be casting some of the australian's and New Zelander's That are used in TV's Xena: Warrior Princess and Hercules: The Legendary Journies. Are these rumors true?
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First of all, being a revolutionary doesnt mean youre a Communist.(Before I begin Id like to point out that Im not just an idealistic college student, Im a 39 year old realist and idealist who went to Yale University 20 years ago.)I believe in a true democracy. Exactly what this country isnt, when everything from elections, decisionmaking, to healthcare is controlled by corporate special interests. Try not to be so cynical. History shows that social justice movements have succeeded. It just takes time. And when you speak to people about getting a real job, what do you mean? Do you think activists just march around and shout. Being an activist means being active in the politics of a democracy. Remember what democracy means, "A government by the people and for the people." Thats what I do. I take part in democracy when less than 10 % of Americas people do, except for maybe voting in local elections once in a while. I work 60-70 hours a week to make sure that democracy is preserved in this country, and to challenge the corporate special interests that threaten to completely wipe out the significance of the public interest. Ive worked on everything from campaign finance reform,the GAP anti-sweatshop campaign, to getting Manitoba Hydroelectric to be held accountable for flooding indigenous areas through excessive dam projects(My mother was killed in one of these floods, and thousands were left homeless, but I guess to you its just a matter of business. Maybe it will take a personal experience for you to realize the gravity of injustice in America and beyond. FYI, I was involved and active before this incident.) I work passionately, researching and organizing to preserve human dignity, and justice for people as well as our planet, and you dare tell others to get a real job. What is your definition of a real job? Is the accumulation of wealth the only objective in life. I seriously hope you will open your mind, and your heart, for there is no sense living a cold and cynical life, or shall I say, "death.".
Love Frank (No hard feelings, I am always open for debate.)
Environmental and social activist, Tolkien fanatic, believer of democracy and happy as hell. Youre probably going to respond with a "go to hell you damn muckraker or something." I hope you dont, but if the level of your knowledge of social issues is that low, I guess I cant blame you. Ill blame the media. Thanks and good night. Remember, Gandalf organized a revolution that saved Middle Earth. He could've given in to Saruman, and he could've given up on persuading Denethor, but he didn't. He kept on. He lived his convictions. Peace.
and heres a quote:
"Irony has only emergency use. Carried over time, it's the voice of the trapped who have come to enjoy their cage."
- Lewis Hyde
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Eternal -
I liked the Bakshi movie as well, but Sauron was NOT depicted, so I think you are confused.
morGoth, you said -
The reason Bakshi's effort is so
unpopular, particularly amongst Tolkienites, is because he stopped the movie under half way through LOTR and tried to patch up his ending with the ever trite and
unoriginal "....and there was peace in Middle-earth for a long time." I don't claim to have that verbatim but you get's the drift.
WELL, the ending didn't say anything like that, it DID say "Now ends the FIRST PART of th history of the War of the Rings".
FIRST PART. They intended to finish, but the first part flopped in theatres. Your criticism is misguided.
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Oh, DMFC, you're right. You whine and whine like we've come to this unacceptable paxorysm, and "here comes the revolution", etc. (You don't actually think it'll come from the U.S., do you? It'll come TO the U.S., when you get your fat asses bombed! Nothing'll happen if they leave you little brainwashed sheep alone.) By some idealism you've contrived for your own little reassurance, you think this idea, this system you promote will set the world to rights. Wake up. I think you just can't hold the whole world in a "system", period. There'll always be glitches, and there'll always be whiners like you. "That's right, old chap, awful times we live in. Where's the spittoon?" You said something about supporting independant labels, and not corporative bullshit. I make the same choice, but not for political reasons: just to make my existence tolerable, to ESCAPE from the ambiant insipidity and the snares laid before the masses (a characteristic of ANY political system). Yes, I guess I lean towards idiosyncrasy, and the doing of you're own thing, and that's hardly a great society project. So LEAVE ME ALONE, no more of your useless ponderings: let's turn to something even more useless, and much more delightful, LOTR. Please don't try to prove to me how ignorant I am, since I already know, and couldn't care less.
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In the French version, they added a voice-over by the narrator, who says something like "Thus, Frodo and his friends defeated the Dark Lord Sauron. So ends the first book of The Lord of the Rings." :
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kill them, gut them, skin them, and make a nice stew. If I only had some taters........morGoth,it hurts to say, o dark one, but your post ( I love animals) is vintage talkback. Thoroughly enjoyable....wb wordsmith Goodgulf ( Elwe bows in your general direction).........As for Eternal; I see you made it to your dark hiding place. I give you joy of it. By the looks of your last post, DanMaunz is ranting sophmoric drivel while humping your leg and has you distracted. Bakshi's film was a disaster, pal. Your mother was a hampster and your father smelled of elderberries. You poor backwards sonofahamster. All I remember from that ridiculous affair is looking around in a packed house and seeing glazed, bored, disappointed expressions. Now I see them again, and they are looking at you......
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Yum,Yum. Taters anyone? BTW, If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did he make 'em out of meat?
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Sionce we're all venting about social injustice, let me mention the telephone. I was going over my bill and I was delighted to see that the actual; cost of making a telephone call is the lowest ever, just as was promised when Ma Bell was drawn and quartered those many years ago. And yet this new, more fair and more competetive service is costing me almost a $80.00 per month without making even one phone call. They have more services and enticements than ever before that more costs. Let me list a few of the added charges.
Federal Excise Tax, City Sales Tax, Municiple Franchise Tax, State Sales Tax, Transit Authority Tax, Cost of Service Surcharge, Texas Universal Service, Expanded Local Calling/Surcharge, Emergency svc chg, Svc Provider Number Portability Fee, Inside Maintenance Plan, Touch Call, Interstate Subscriber Line Charge, Residence Line (and these are just from the local phone company - GTE in my case). There are also charges for connection fees to the long distance carrier. My point is that even realitively basic phone service costs 10 times more today than before the break-up of Ma Bell even though the cost of making a phone call have gone down. And on a daily basis, often several times per day I get annoying phone calls soliciting another calling plan from other long distance companies. I'm not usually a monopolist and believe that competition does help lower costs, but in this case I feel the country has been duped. Why should I get a telephone bill for $60.00 dollars or more without even calling anyone. When you read the explanations of the charges (Universal Service fees help the needy pay for phone service) it all sounds very reasonable, until you realize that the only reason some peole can't afford basic phone service is because the phone companies in conjunction with municiple, state and federal govenments have jumped on a huge cash cow, and guess whose cash it is. Services that Ma Bell used to offer for the basic $8.00 dollar monthly rate now cost extra. If they could I think the phone companies would divide the handset so that you paid a charge to hear and a charge to be able to speak. Next time: The Cable TV Ripoff: What I Got Free As A Kid I Now Pay For. -
Your comments concerning socialism, et al. are interesting, although generally misguided. Note that the economic system of the U.S.S.R. WAS responsible for much of the tyranny and horror its citizens lived through, as well as its econocmic downfall. (Take a look at the economy there buddy, it's not the result of failed attempts at capitalism, but the fact that the whole damn unit ran out of bucks before starting "economic reform". Oh, and valid point about religion killing people, but to use your own logic, religion is not an economic system. That's really all I have to say on the subject since the study of economic systems throughout history is not my strong point.
However, I also note that the "trolling" comments were fairly accurate. This is a talkback on LOTR, yet you only mention it once in all your posts, and only to give an unsupported and patently ludicrous statement that it is "garbage". Obviously, you have no real opinion of the book, and probably have never read it since you compare it to Piers Anthony. Since you obviously have nothing useful to say on the topic of THIS talkback, why don't you go irritate people on some political site. And quit with the arrogance dude, you're a friggin' student. When you're in a position to actually experience the real workings of different political systems over a few decades, maybe I'll find you a bit more credible.
Oh, and though I like Donaldson, I'm not sure about him as Denethor. Then again, what the hell do I know.
Peace, love and random violence. -
I find it extremely amusing that none of the naysayers responded to my previous post, and instead kept bashing on DANMAUZ by picking at every detail of his posts. And they accuse us of nitpicking? Funny. Well, my only guess is that they had no argument, and therefore kept silent. Thanks and good night.
-Frank(I am a hasty one, revealing my true name.) -
I think Sutherland is a decent actor, and quite capable of portraying denethor, however I think he carries a hell of a lot of baggage. When i see him sitting on his throne in Minas Tirith, Ill immediatel think, "Whats Sutherland doing impersonating Denethor. Oh well, its not confirmed yet. I'd like to see John Wood or Nigel Hawthorne in the role. Anyway, thanks and good night.
"Stop the expansion of the World Trade Organization. Free Trade without barriers they say? And do they tell us what some of those barriers might be? No. Human and labor rights and environmental regulations are all barriers so screw them. And if they refuse to comply we'll throw huge tariffs on all imported resources.
Lets all help stop this global tyrant, and instill a better alternative. Protest in Seattle at their annual ministerial meeting on November 30th.
Thanks again. Frank. A happy mother*$%&!, and my mission is to make as many people as possible happy too.
P.S. Im not on crack. I just do what I believe and it sure feels better than having six sports utility vehicles. -
Um, greenleaf, I guess by "a certain European girl" you mean me, doncha? Well, it's true, I get easily pissed off when some American butheads say "Americans saved everyone" or "USA rules the world" but considering socialism... well, I can screw it myself - and *I* have all the rights to do it, because 70 years of its reign almost ruined my country. But, you know some ideas Alessan pointed out - labour unions, social security, etc. - are quite wise, aren't they? BTW if not for the revolution in Russia and other countries, the life of working people in Western Europe and America would have been harder even now - capitalist were frightened that their countries would be swept by revolution too, and began to pay their emploees more - and it gradually moved to the condtions we have now - you usually work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, have holidays, insurance, etc.~~~~Considering Sutherland - bad actor? i don't think so - he hasn't got the good roles, that's the problem - but IMO he's got that noble look the Steward of Gondor should have. Though Anthony Hopkins is one of my favourite actors, I'm afraid, he would be kind of funny playing this role - Denethor should be quite a handsome old man, shouldn't he?~~~~~Eternal, man, congrats on being another shitty troller here - yeah, it wasn't a funny joke, besides I didn't believe your words and I'm not gonna believe anything you say anymore - the purpose of your posts is just enraging other talkbackers, ant that's all.
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I agree that Bakshi's film was a disaster. Why did the Shire feel like Mirkwood? Anyway, Id rather watch "Rookie of the Year" while having my crotch crushed in a vice. Oh yes I would be on fire, and Steven Seagal would be hitting me in the head repeatedly with a 2x4(which is also on fire), until I confessed that his acting and his movies are superior to anything else in the universe. Then I would have sex with Gollum.
Thanks and good night.
Frank
Oh yes I wasnt going to mention this, but ever since I entered this forum I sort of thought of everyone here as fellow geeks, movie critics, and debaters. But now I realize that youre all more than that to me.Talkbackers...... youre my children.Yes its true.......Im your mother.
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Jesus was a democratic socialist!
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Actually, I think Danny Devito should be Denethor.
"Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need. And he has been well rewarded, Frodo. Be sure that he took so little hurt from the evil, and escaped in the end, because he began his ownership of the ring so. With Pity." -Gandalf -
Theyre puny liberal whining tossers.But whats this got to do with Sutherland?
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Tis a pity I've run out of bullets, said Dildo. It's too bad that the news coming from the production is such that we have resorted to discussing politics. I suppose that it must be true that idle hands are the Devil's workshop. Are we all lost in the Land of the Knee Walking Turkeys?
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Poor Eternal, are you longing for a place under the sun? Get YOUR ass kissed, is that what you want? Is that the problem with the LotR TB? You have many slips, and while your incoherence makes them hard to nail down, your two main faults have always been: 1) confusing bitching with disagreement, 2) confusing ass-kissing with cordiality. Many people disagree in these talkback; however those disagreements are just not highlighted with the big FUCK YOU marker, so I guess you find them hard to pinpoint. Two years of talkbacking, and this time your main preoccupation was the switch between troll/non-troll mode, that ever-so-witty game of provocation and MAJOR ASS-KISSING, "hate and lust", you may call it, and guess what: it's unpopular here. It's time to put your wits to something else, Eternal. How's this: try making friends. Doesn't sound like a good intellectual challenge? It'll improve your mental health, I can assure you. You're losing yourself: the once solid and worthless Eternal I knew is dissolving... Maybe it's finally the time for your big break. Stand for yourself. Don't tell me that's what you're doing: you're posting under multiple user names! Stand in front of all those people and be YOURSELF! Two years of talkbacking and you haven't achieved that? MAN!! Get rid of the shell!
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"Anybody who isn't a socialist when he's 20 hasn't got a heart. Anybody who's still a socialist when he's 30 hasn't got a brain."
Nuff said. -
Sutherland is so very very wrong for Denethor. He simply does not have the *substance* to be Denethor. Denethor is a great man with the blood of Numenor within him who has been corrupted by years of conflict with Sauron. Sutherland can certainly play a crazy man, but he is not a good enough of an actor to play a great man and leader of men.
May I also point out that Sutherland has probably played in more bad films than virtually any Hollywood actor that I know! -
Before you go go calling liberals whiners, why dont you think for a second. The civil rights movement and all other great movements in history started with liberals. You think that there are only minor problems with the capitalist system, so thats why you call us winers. Youre ignorant. Before you bash us, realize that my mother along with many of my people were killed at the hands of the Manitoba Hydroelectric Corporation. I think thats a good enough reason to whine. Oh yeah if this countrys coal, oil, nuclear, and natural gas corporations dont resort to renewable energy, the avg global temperature will rise 6-8degreesFarenheit.To give you an example of the gravity of such a drastic change; the ice age was caused by a decrease of the avg global temperature of 4degreesF, in a 100 year period. That, I would have to say is a great reason to whine, and to act. Oh yeah the argument is backed up by over 2000 leading climatologists. The only skeptics are three scientists who did some research that was heavily covered in the media. Who funded their research and exposure?"you might ask. Yes, you guessed it, Exxon, and a coalition of other oil, coal and nuclear power companies. I would like my children and others children to be able to live here. Sorry Im not a short term thinker like you. I complain because I think long term, and because Im human. You, it seems have already accepted your fate. You are content to sit, rot and die, without making any good impact on society. There are more problems out there than you think. The only reason you dont see it is because youve been brainwashed by the biased, corporate run media that encourages you to buy, buy, buy and buy because everythings, fine, fine, fine. Its not fine, and maybe youll only see that if something affects you directly. When you call us fools you disrespect my mother's life, and the lives of countless others. Have a damn heart.
Frank(No hard feelings, Im open for debate.)
Oh yes I am your mother -
I am not the same person as Eternal, or any of the other posters. I am a Tolkien fanatic, but havent had time to talk back because I had been working on a campaign finance reform campaign for six months. I would like to be recognized as being a separate person. If you dont believe me, my name is Francesco Femia, and I can be reached at (781)871-0053, or e-mailed at Italy523@aol.com. I live in Abington Massachusetts.
However I am also everyones mother. OH AND ID LIKE TO SUGGEST A GREAT DENETHOR- JOHN GIELGUD. Played the Pope in Elizabeth. Small role, but decent acting. He really looks the part.Anyway, thanks and good night.
Frank -
Fool. This is a Tolkien related talkback, moron, so quit loading everybody up with your idiotic drivel. I don't care how your mother died, that is your cross to bear. Chances are she lives in Florida and you are a transvestite........" Gandalf was a revolutionary", what crap.
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Exellent Idea.
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This movie has a suck director, suck cast, and suck budget. It will suck. Comparing it to "STAR WARS" is a waste of time. Nobody gives a rat's ass about fantasy movies. "ROBIN HOOD: PRINCE OF THIEVES" only did well cause nobody knew that Costner sucked at the time. The first LOTR movie will bomb, and the last two will go straight to video. All you bastards that keep saying that Lucas is gonna piss himself over this film need to check your heads. Although inspired by many sources, George Lucas doesn't need to compare his "quasi-original" ideas to 3 piece of shit movies licensed from some opium smokin' dead guy's substandard books. Shit, I'd rather see a freaking sequel to "KRULL" or a goddamn prequel to "CLASH OF THE FUCKING TITANS" !!! It's gonna have cheesedick special effects like that friggin' "ALICE IN WONDERLAND" NBC movie where they put Martin Short's noggin' on a itty-bitty body. Wooooooooo. Gosh, I'm sure that ILM is shaking in their fucking boots! Yeah right. I'd rather watch 2 hours of Jar-Jar Binks jerking off his CGI P.P. than seeing Elijah "I've Got" Wood's puss on a midget. Damn. Between this lump of poop and the goddamn "X-MEN" fiasco, Summer 2000 is gonna blow! Where's Will Smith when you need him?
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Dunno why, but your trolling post is cracking me up right now. Pretty funny shit. Thanks.
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you've got jealousy written all over. You must be a green Womp Rat. BTW, I just read an interview with Lucas in a Seattle magazine. He apologizes profusely for subjecting the populace to the Satr Wars series, but he realized early on that he could make a ton of money. He actually quotes P.T. Barnum by saying " there's a sucker born every minute" and goes on to laugh at the legion of sycophantic morons who suckered in to his one- dimensional crappola. He knew that, given enough retarded special effects, storyline was irrelevant. Gotta respect the guy for his honesty.
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Good for you Singollo. That was a very intelligent post. It was wonderful. I'll quote you,"I don't care how your mother died."
Wow, sounds like a guilt ridden person who has lashed out and exposed his true nature. An elitist bastard that doesnt care about people. Yes thats it. I congratulate you. Oh yes Id like to mention that I have been posting opinions on Denethors casting while you have basically mentioned nothing about the movies. Did you ever consider the possibility that your posts are meaningless drivel. At least I have convictions. Youre already dead, you swine. Go hide in Orthanc.Oh what else. Im better educated than you. I have had more experience in politics than youll ever have. That makes my arguments more sound than any of your Limbaughish liberal bashing. Yes thats the word I was looking for. Unintelligent. Voluntarily ignorant. Oh and if there werent any revolutions, wouldnt we still all be living in some dictatorial Empire.Why are you so intent on making revolution out to be a horrible thing. Give me your phone number, so when your mother dies, Ill call you and say, "HA HA HA YOUR FUCKIN MOTHERS DEAD. FUCK HER." I bet you would enjoy that. But actually I wouldnt do that because unfortunately Im not an asshole, and I wouldnt want to hurt your feelings at such a tragic time. Watch out, if youre not a psycho-conservative, or if politically you stand anywhere to the left of Hitler, beware, Elwe Singollo the great Mastermind of the world will set you straight. Next time your whole town is wiped out because of a profit hungry corporation, and because a CEO wants to make an extra million;next time your mother is killed for the benefit of a business, post your support for corporate America. I pray that you have no influence on your children, for that would be a tragedy.
Im Elwe Singollo. Look at me. I can quote Tolkien without even looking. Aint I just way better than everybody. Fuck indigenous people. Fuck poor people. Hey, fuck people in general, because I can quote Tolkien. Hell I can even analyze his work. Im fucking unbelievable.There has never been one greater than I. Bow to me and kiss my stinking ass, for it reeks of shit, but it is wonderful shit. Ill tell you Elwe. I WILL NOT KISS YOUR SMELLY ASS. IT SMELLS. CLEAN IT FOR GODS SAKE. Well enough ranting. Ive cooled down now. Anyway, I hope you open your eyes. I pity you, and I hope you will not die unhappy.
your fellow human Frank.
OH YES, I AGREE THAT BY CASTING SUTHERLAND, THEY ARE GOING TO PORTRAY DENETHOR AS A ONE-DIMENSIONAL MADMAN. I HOPE THIS IS NOT SO. CAST A BRIT FOR GODS SAKE. ThERE ARE SO MANY GREAT ACTORS FROM THE UK.
thanks and good nite.
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Just when I think I have gotten over my wearied disgust over the stupidity of the casting comes this latest bit of idiocy. Nothing against Mr. Sutherland, I've enjoyed much of his work. But this shows typical Hollywood lack of imagination. About the only good think I can say about the casting is that at least Sean Connery isn't in the movie. I'm glad Christopher Lee is in but he should have been Gandalf. You've all probably seen the interview where he declared his adoration of the book, and added that Gandalf is one of the roles he would most like to play in his career. As far as eternal's comment, he missed the true nature of hobbits. Tolkien served in World War I, a war fought at the behest of and on behalf of the various European aristocracies. While the officers where drawn almost entirely from the titled or priveleged classes, the actual fighting was done by the lower classes. It was the farmers' sons and the dockworkers and shop clerks who actually fought in the trenches. (I know this is somewhat long but bear with me)- The antiquated tactics used by the British Army resulted in horrible casualties among the enlisted men. The battle of the Somme cost over 50,000 British dead and wounded, if memory serves. Yet through all this, the line troops fought to do their duty. Tolkien, I believe, took his inspiration for the Hobbits from the soldiers from the countryside, the men from the shires, and their uncrushable spirit. They were "the little people", and I'm not being arch when I say that; Tolkien paid homage to them by making them the (literal) little people of his work. To simplify the theme of the trilogy somewhat, LOTR is two parallel stories: The King assuming his rightful throne, and four friends from the countryside who go to war and are changed by their experiences. Sorry I ran on so long; these are things I've wanted to say for a while
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George Lucas is truly a bad director, and a bad writer. He makes his movies to create a cultish following. Hes the king of creating whats "cool" on screen, rather than whats intelligent, and thought provoking. His movies are nothing more than a toy advertisemnt. I dont care how good ILM is, the simple fact that PJ has more creative energy in some pimple on his bum, than Lucas will ever have insures that these films will be superior to Star Wars. I dont care if WETA used the Puppets in the Hobbit stage play for special effects; the movies would still be better. Unless of course, he fucks up.Anyway, thanks and good nite.
Oh yeah Elwe sorry I freaked, but I loved my mother, and you cannot imagine what its like to have thousands of your own people die so unjustly. Just think about what you say. Be thoughtful and respectful
-Frank -
Hey Morgoth, If Frodo and Sam let reality overcome them they would have never destroyed the ring. They would have given up. There is hope in idealism. Im not saying one should deny reality, but the fact is that people can change things, and it has been proven. Now, Im not a communist, and I dont believe one system will ever be perfect, but we can try to correct the wrongs. The glitches in the system are not just glitches to the people and environment it affects. I just think that we are lucky to live in a country that allows us to promote new ideas, and that we should seize such an opportunity. We dont have to worry about being shot, like activists in South Africa under the reign of Apartheid. We have the freedom to shape our lives, and control the way we live. We should take advantage of it. Try it once. Its the most satisfying thing in the world.
Frank
Gandalf for president -
Hmmm, I guess you aren't Eternal in disguise. Sorry if I spilled some lemonade on an open wound. But your bleeding heart is spewing gore incoherently, except to say over and over that you and your's are VICTIMS. Gandalf wasn't a revolutionary, he re-establishes the status quo. If anything, Saruman is the revolutionary by mating orcs and humans, breaking the white light, and establishing the system of the White Hand....More of a renegade though, come to think on it.....Indeed, Middle-Earth is quite static in terms of political systems. But Saruman makes for a good socialist, don't you think?
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You don't know your kids very well. All this sarcasm towards your offspring is a knife in the water because of irrelevance. I suggest you use a little more insight when you read us, you know, that kind of maternal instinct you seem to lack. My compliments on your opinions of George Lucas. I'm not certain that this LotR movie by PJ will be that great, in fact I have some doubts which suggest the contrary, but still I keep hoping. That's the kind of idealism we cultivate in this talkback. A passive one, yes, but do not assume that this is all we live for. I'm off to some 1420 Old Toby's and moments of pure and unabashed hedonism. Fear for the world while I'm at unawares, will you mum?
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...would be perfect for playing Denethor.
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zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz
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Some of you people have the misguided notion that somehow socialism = communism. Don't you have any idea about politics. And as for the idea that socialism has been thrown into the garbage bin, most of the countries of the European Union have socialist governments for heaven's sake. Only about 2 or 3 don't.
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You know, I've looked into Sutherland a bit and by God, the naysayers are right! There's no way we can let him be in LotR. Just look at the films he's made over the last few years: "Honeymoon Academy","Curse III: Blood Sacrifice", "Police Academy: Mission to Moscow", "The Stupids" and, uh ... oh. Um, sorry. Must have screwed up there a bit. I just wrote down Christopher Lee's filmography by accident. Sorry. Please ignore everything I've said. **** Nacent: if you don't mind, two more points to add to your interesting post - 1. Tolkien fought at the Somme as was wounded quite grieviously and 2. he was an officer, which puts things in a different perspective. You know, technically, J.R.R.T was a member of the so-called "Lost" generation of writers from the 1920's. Instead of taking the easy path to cynicism, like most of them did, he became a romantic. You have to love him for that. **** Notice I havn't mentioned Socialism?
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Alessan, well spotted with that filmography there! We can't judge an actor by their past movies - they have to earn a living as well, and if crap roles are all they're offered it's because they just don't have that Hollywood pull any more. If your brains have just suddenly thought: "if they have no Hollywood pull then they must be crap!" Well, just think on and tell yourself the names of the "actors" who can pull in the crowds more than the film's title. I guarantee you won't find an actor among them that's worth licking Sutherland's or Lee's boots.***You can always judge an actor by what they do with a character they are given in crap movies, however. A very good actor (in my eyes) always seems to ham it up: you know, really go for the overkill. I know damn well Sutherland is going to fit this part well - I just hope he gets it!
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You are evil personified, my man. (This is good.) Do what you do and don't sweat it. BTW we all know you post, and have posted under different names... like LANE!!! ;) MWAHAHAHAHA!!! Donald Sutherland can't be anything other than *shweeet* as a crabby, bitter, self immolating bummed out old man. Good on him.
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That Eternal is the "Andy Kauffman" of Harry's talkbacks. Even I don't get it when he's joking sometimes. Eternal, you need to take on Jerry Lawler before anyone gets it.
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I disagree. Saruman was definitely not a socialist. First of all Ive never known a socialist who desired total domination of the earth. I dont know exactly what you mean by him being a socialist by breeding orcs and men,but I guess you are saying that this was Tolkiens way of showing his discust for interracial breeding. If you agree with such a philosophy, I truly pity you. Oh yes, I never said I believed in total socialism.Democratic socialism hits closer to the mark. I just think we need to democratize corporations, because as time goes by their responsibilities are eroding while their rights are increasing. I think of them as enormous humans who perform the very same functions we do, except on a much larger scale. While I may fart and cause only slight discomfort to a bystander, General Motors farts and pollutes half the United States. My mission is to simply help reform corporations, and hold them accountable for their actions. I never said I was a complete socialist. Anyway I did rant about how my people were victims, but it happens to others all the time. Plus I was already politically active before that incident.
Your loving mother, Frank -
If by "cool" movies you mean films that peole actually enjoy, then I'm all for it. Is George the greatest director of all time? No. Not even close. Speilberg has moved on to outshine George, but even Steven is still maturing and hasn't yet reached the stature of Ford, Hawkes or Hitchcock, though it must be admitted he's made more money. For me Peter Jackson is an unknown. I've been both happy and disturbed by the various rumors regarding the script for LOTR, but I've resigned myself to expecting a good film, though not necessarilly one that follows the book verbatum. Whatever Jackson does with LOTR, it won't affect the book, except for the folks who have never read it. I can only hope that those who have never read the book won't be turned off by the film, or think that they don't need to read the book after seeing the film. No film adaptation ever made is a good substitute for the book it was based on, no matter how well made. One aspect of the books I fear will be lost is the sense of sadness and doom that lurks in the background of almost every scene. Except for a few scenes of Hobbiton the book is often brooding and melancholy, which I loved. But I'm afraid that the producers are going to lean more toward the popcorn crowd and highlight the action and adventure aspect, rather than the sacrifice and loss every character faces no matter what the outcome of the War. For those that feel that the LOTR is just a simple story, I suggest you re-think your position. There is more depth than meets the eye upon first or even second reading.
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He would admittedly be rather good but he is 95 dont forget,which is probably too old even for Denethor as Denethor was 89 but had dunedain blood in him too [though not as strong as Aragorns] so probably looked 60-70.Also Gielgud does mainly cameos these days cos he cant remember the lines.Also he might die during filming which would be awkward if his role was unfinished.Still I did hear he wanted a role so I see no reason why he cant play Cirdan the shipwright, who only has one line,but needs a venerable and powerful actor
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Nov 22, 1999 1:27:57 PM CST
Yeah, I WILL lighten up, when Eternal doesn't prove his name and
by natalie
That post of yours was so devoid of logic that I really don't know why I'm responding to it. No, I don't think you're annoying cuz you're just ridiculous. You're surprised to hear that you're hear only to enrage people? But didn't you put it yourself? (c) "As this Talkback seems a little on the quiet side, I'll liven it up with some trolling of my own!" Isn't that a purpose of every troller to make some insane comments and everyone would go wild? I bet you were pissed off when nobody took you serious! Different IDs? Well, that's really great - since you say I wouldn't recognize you when you write under those IDs it means those personalities are much more intelligent! Now I will know: whenever I see the ID Eternal it means you use it for trolling. Well, I do post on some other AICN talkbacks (mostly SW) and I've encountered sometimes Jim Realto, L'Ateur, Q2, and others - but I don't recall them saying anything that stupid! You just seem not to know the difference between trolling and "challenging other people's opinions". C'mon, I'm waiting for some useful and thoughtprovoking comments instead of throwning thrash like you did in this talkbacks.
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It seems to me that the LOTR is meaningful enough without resorting to trumped up debates about it. How about debating the concept of the Elves actually being the bad guys? Where they altogether in the right? Tolkien refers to them in a letter as "embalmers" and elitist, believing themselves better than the other races and allowing Middle-Earth to stagnate in order to satisfy their longing for the Undying Lands. As long as the Elves had access to the Rings of Power Middle-Earth would never progress in a normal fashion, but slowly die for want of change. Sauron's re-emergence on the scene and the possibility of recovering the One Ring spoils any hope that the Elves had of maintaining their position of authority in Middle-Earth. No wonder they were upset. Sauron is evil, but the outcome is a eucatastrophe for some, but a Pyrrhic Victory for the Elves. The facade of Lorien must whither and vanish, though perhaps not in an instant for there was a power their more than just the Ring, but when Galadriel departs the spell is gone for good. Tolkien also mentions that the Elves are not immortal, but rather very very long lived. He regretted using the term immortal in the same way as he regretted using the term "magic" in that neither term adequately described what he envisioned.
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Evil elves? Now THAT's sacrilige if I ever saw any. You're going to Hell, Goodgulf! Seriously, though, you're right - if you're referring to the elves of the First Age, the elves who fought Morgoth. They were elitist as all hell; they also ruled their world. But you can't really say that they had any real dominance after the fall of Angband - there just weren' enough of the left. They couldn't deal with Sauron by themselves during the Second Age, and during the Third they had little influence on middle earth outside their own little enclaves. No, the Age of Man started long before the War of the Ring. They knew it, and they knew that their days in the east were numbered. The elves of middle earth were nothing if not realists, and their existance was marked more by sorrow than by pride. As for their arrogance, I don't really see it. Remember, this is not an objective wold we're dealing with here. Tolkien's reality was highly moral and symbolic. He intended the elves to be good, and good they are, if flawed (like all interesting characters). As for elves not being immortal, consider Cirdan, Elves may be mortal, but then so are mountains. When we're dealing with such vast scales of time, does it really make a difference?
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Sam: your point is well taken, you are right, my point is that, well, a true herbivore never eats meat and a true carnivore never eats plants, we eat both and are therefore omnivores. That's all I'm saying......Ingold: I think this topic (Sutherland and socialism) has run its course. I'm not really in the mood to start spewing my film shit. But I'll be around. You'll never be rid of me :)
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DANMAUNZ!!! I'll be damned! Where were you when I was fighting over the truths and falsehoods of 20th Century Socialism with Jake the Snake last week - I kinda hate to admit it, but you are right on in this talkback. In the words of Egon - "I'm gonna take back some of the things I said about you". And I mean that. Very intelligent, eloquent and educated posting, DanMaunzFanClub. Thank you for being one of the few people around here who understands what true socialism is, and who fully understands the truth about capitalism and classism.
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Gandalfs mother - get your cape back on and get back to saving the world. Leave the talkbacks to us mortals. ***DanMaunz - you sound like every third person I went to school with at CU-Boulder ten years ago. They are all out humping ATM machines now. All that socialism talk has made me hungry for some meat. Signed - yuppie scumbag investment banker.
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I agree with you. You have a good point, thats all I'm saying. I just can't resist the taste of flesh.....
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Goodgulf and Alessan. Thank you very much. Get some sleep, Celt: it ain't over yet. morGoth, post that marvellous Ingold crappola - unless, like I guess, you save only your own drivel. Until we meet again, when that Dan Maunz shit wears off. Siegheil!
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I want to know, what you said to me in that deleted talkback about Helm's Deep;!
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Finduilas of Dol Amroth. She died of boredom in the city of Minas Tirith.
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I meant 'longing for the sea'. We Elves speak elliptically.
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Appendix A, you bookworm!!
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...edgy, but you know, the momentum's gone. Still, it was a classic in the making.
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I just ate supper. It was quite good.
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Ingold, as Natalie could tell, in Russian, Nikita is a MAN's name (video clips nonwhistanding). Which makes sense, kind of. I mean, this is Elton John we're talking about here.
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It was you who claims that Humans' digestive systems evolved to cope with grain and seed, wasn't it? I couldn't help but notice your deliberate mistake, of course. Humans CANNOT digest seed or grain (except nuts) unless they have been heavily processed (ground, cooked or soaked in other substances). As it goes the only thing we can digest raw and unprocessed are fruits and meats - red meats tend to stick in the guts but birds and lighter meats pass through. We do, after all, come from the ever-omnivorous primates! So far as I can think there is only ONE vegetarian species of primate - the gorilla. All other primates eat fruit and foliage and meat (of some description). *** morGoth - your Elf-slaying days are returning, huh? I hope this new-found strength holds out! Go get 'em, morGy! Don't let the smelly Elves grind you down!!!
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Elves do not smell. Our sense of hygiene is as refined as... well, you know about our numerous other refinements. And anyway, it's found right there in the book. 'As they approached, there came a silence, and the plaintive, blackboard-scraping shriek of a nose-flute pierced the air. "They're giving a pig a rough time of it in there," said Spam, blocking his ears. "Hush," said Frito, and a voice rose in song, filling the boggies with a vague sense of nausea. "A Unicef clerasil ~ Gibberish 'n' drivel ~ O Mennen mylar muriel ~ With a hey derry tum gardol ~ O Yuban necco glamorene? ~ Enden nytol, vaseline! ~ Sing hey nonny nembutal." With a last twittering wail, the music died away, and half a dozen stunned birds plopped heavily to the ground in front of Frito. "What was that?" asked Frito. "It is an ancient lament in the tongue of the Auld Elves," sighed Garfinkel. "It tells of Unicef and his long and bitter search for a clean rest room. 'Are there no facilities here?' he cries. 'Is there no washroom?' No one seems to know."' Right from the source, you name-caller.
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Very nicely described there, Master Elf, but unfortunately the facts still stand. Elves are smelly - they think, of roses and heather meadows. However, the stink lingers when Elves have been near and all remember the passing of an Elven company. Hmmm, he he. I notice Master Vanyar has no comment on the subject!!!
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.....Celebrian, daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn. She was waylaid by orcs on her way from Imladris to Lorien. She was rescued by her sons, Elladan and Elrohir, but received a poisoned wound in the process. Although healed in body by her husband, she wearied of Middle-earth and took ship at Mithlond the next year and went to Eressea. Hope that helps. Namarie mellon.
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I believe that the Pokemon/Frodo question was actually for $500,000 -- not $250,000. All the more frustrating considering I knew every single one of that guy's questions and I've put much effort into trying to earn a spot on that show. Alas, I have failed. The guy's not knowing Pokemon was o.k., but I was yelling at him for obviously not having read Lord of the Rings. And then, after the guy took his money and walked away, Regis told the audience something like: "Of course, everyone at home recognized the name Frodo from The Hobbit." I yelled at the screen again: "Regis, you fool, Frodo wasn't in The Hobbit! He was in Lord of the Rings!"
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Nov 23, 1999 12:40:41 PM CST
For me, Donald Sutherland will always be one -- and only one --
by r_dimitri22
the museum curator from The Simpsons.
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......I just dump everything else that isn't important.....my name, social, what I learned in school, y'know little stuff like that..... {;-] ......actually, I'm not sure, but back in sixth grade they tested us kids and i was told I had what is called eidetic memory...and boy has it come in handy...especially come test time. Anyway, didn't mean to step in the middle of your info exchange... but you know how we Tolkienites are ... cwazy about dat professor! namarie
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You barbarians have obviously never heard of Niphredil soap bars, "squeaky clean as a child of Maiar descent", the ads say in the Hall of Fire; and of that very special fragrance developed by the Lady of L
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Well, well, well, greenleaf. I see you are an Elf with a franchise in mind. Too bad that your time amongst us surviving mortals has come to an end - though your wiffiness seems to fade MUCH slower than your civilisation!***Sam I Am - I would try to be optimistic about the THREE movie script. You are indeed showing signs of pessimism and - dare I say it - disillusionment! Hearten yourself! Whatever comes of it, we still have the Professor's works to read (though a damn good movie would be lovely).***Vanyar - nice to see you have made a return! I am having problems with all these Elves! I can smell too many flowers! Too many treeeees!!!
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Indeed! morGoth certainly knows how to inspire! I am converted, o hand of darkness! I am thy minion and thy chattel!!!***To greenleaf and all the other Elves (yes, you Vanyar): being but a Barbarian, and you being such gracious Elves (phew!whiff! I can't breathe!), you should know that we Celts bathe but once every other year or so!!! Soap? Wassat? Please remember that these rivers in which we immerse ourselves are rather chilly if the summer's not hot! Not to mention how friendly the pike can get!!! How is it, you say? Namarie? Indeed, mellyn.
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Wow. I think I just had a religious moment. First one since Sister Catherine caught me cheating in 4th grade.
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The extra time allowed by the third film will hopefully put back in a few characters left out. I see no reason to downplay Eowyn's part as it draws attention to Aragorn's romance with Arwen. The only reason I could see Arwen "sneaking" into battle woud be to usurp Eowyn's role in slaying the Nazgul - a truely awful twist. But when you guys put all the stuff being omitted down in writing it seems like a goodly portion of the book is being hacked out. I'm beginning to wonder why Jackson is calling it The Lord of the Rings unless it's just for recognition value. No, I take it back. The films will be all that we hope they will be. They have to be. But what I wouldn't give for a peek at the current shooting script just to appease my curiosity. Where are Harry's spies when we need them?
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morGoth: Fie on thee! Once again you spread poisonous lies amongst the children of Eru! **** Celt: Do not listen to the vile Black Enemy of the World! He spreads half truths.....of course we do not use soap.....dirt refuses to cling to our Eru-hallowed, immortal bodies....and we do not perspire, so we always smell as fresh as a Valinorean spring. {;-] ****** Sam I Am: Fear not. remember that the two-movie script was written before PJ approached New Line, having no idea what he be allowed to do, or even if they would back him. And also, the "suits" said "THREE MOVIES" on the STRENGTH OF THE SPECIAL EFFECTS FOOTAGE....hello! ANyway, just go back and read he first two 20 Qs. THAT shows PJ's focus...If you don't have'em, I do. Let me know. AURE ENTULUVA!!!!!!
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Despite your claims that Elves do not and CAN not smell, I beg to differ! This Talk Back stinks! He he.***Vanyar - afraid of the morGoth are you? It is about time the Great Dark One spread his terror! And he is right! He he haa haa haarrr!***As a side-note - I've just had a birdie because I have only now realised who Viggo actually is! He plays one of my favourite characters in a favourite movie (and I can't believe I didn't notice!!!)!!!!
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Thank you, o great one. When shall we get these pesky Elves! They seem to be coming out of the woodwork all around! I should have smelt them coming . . . !***That film was "The Prophecy" starring Christopher Walken as Archangel Gabriel and Viggo as Lucifer!!!
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Blind morglings!! He shows you treasures, fills you with lust and false hopes. Typical morGishness. Will you never learn? UUhhhhhhhh. . . . . DARK ONE, YOU REEK!! ..or is it just me? [eyeballs rolling upwards] STILL, YOU REEK!! sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper.......
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No, I don't think pops was evil. He suffered from the shortcomings of a certain children's book's plot. Poor JRR really hated himself for that book afterwards... A damn good book, miles away from The Lord of the Rings. *** morGy, at least your home in the Outer Dark shields you from oxydation. Or is there oxygen even in remote Virginia?
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I am new here and have never done anything like this, but here goes: I have to mention Indigo Girls the first time I talk to anyone, so that was that. I am reading the red leather bound version of LOTR that is supposed to be the most "accurate"--is this true?
Donald Sutherland seems too old to be Denethor...
Oh yeah, I have to mention roger waters and neil peart as well..sorry.
I enjoyed reading these talkback thingys--thanks for the entertainment. I didn't expect to read about socialism, Ayn Rand(Atlas Shrugged was a good book but could have used a lot of editing--she never let anyone change one word of her work..I will say that Neil Peart of Rush wrote an eloquent concept piece based on Anthem--he's a better writer than Rand, that's for sure..and he's a self described "linear thinking agnostic," at this point. How do you all like my outrageous semi-coherent ramblings so far?
Yours,
Vesper -
"Donald Sutherland seems too old to be Denethor"
Hello, anyone there? Denethor is
old. Sutherland is the right actor
to play Denethor.
Besides that, your outrageous semi-coherent ramblings are ok. -
Red leather? HMMMMMMM, red leather....
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Aiming for the "Red Book" suggestion? I doubt that any one print is better than another, considering how much Tolkien battled to get all the stupid print-press mistakes out of LotR. Still, it sounds like a nice volume! And hello to you, new-comer. We are recruiting for the team of morGoth at the moment. Interested?***I will have to remain Chief Celt I'm afraid. The 1st Class part won't fit (drattit).***And yes - Lucifer was Viggo! Check it out.
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Did someone veesper "EVENSONG"!
@#$%^&(*)+} -
Those who are arguing about Socialism and Capitalism do not seem to realize that Capitalism is Socialism's slightly nicer brother. How can this be? Capitalism is dependent on the government monopoly of the money supply, which gives government dominance over the economy. Among the first repressive lawsever passed were the ones against counterfeiting. Capitalism depends on people working hard for hours at work that they often don't like in order to accumulate this government monopoly for themselves, theoretically for their own self interest but actually for the interests of society. The person who refuses to work is either given a pittance on welfare or consigned to living on the street whether they want to or not, because society wants them to be productive, whether they want to be productive or not. Any system that places a collective categorization for a large group of people known as society above the freedom of the individual to do as he pleases as long as he doesn't hurt anyone else is Socialistic, just as any system that places a collective category such as community above the freedom of the individual is Communistic. Cybertechnology, nanotechnology, robotics and other nascent technologies will do to Capitalism what the Internet, videos, etc. did to its slightly nastier brother Communism. Free Individuals , not Markets! By the way, it's been years since I last read LOTR, and I am looking forward to the movie, though as a pagan as well as an anarchist, I was slightly disappointed to hear that Tom Bombadil will not be featured.
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However, I do have faint recollections of dispersed facts and a shitload of assumptions which can always serve. The Lord of the Rings was recently re-set in the UK editions, and a number of errors corrected. I didn't check to see if the errors reported by Christopher Tolkien in his History of Middle-Earth were corrected (probably not). The missing entry in the Rulers of Numenor (Appendix A) is still missing. For such fundamental lacks to be corrected I think the intervention of Christopher himself will be needed. Besides that the minor typos will vanish soon in the respectable editions (no, Penguin and Ballantine do not qualify), for the text is now in the computer and needs no re-typing. I don't know on what the new Houghton Mifflin (American) edition is based, but I hear that the textual integrity of LotR gets in better shape at each new issuing. That was not the case twenty years ago.... But LotR desperately needs a decent French translation, and I happen to know someone.... OH JUST LET >ME< DO IT! I CAN DO A LOT BETTER THAN THIS *ASS* WHOM YOU CALL A TRANSLATOR!! butcher, dats what he is, and probably dead, too. *** Sanksgivingue?? Oh, yeah, zat. We don't celebrate zat here. Is dat ze day when ze family meets, to stir up zee old feuds with ze relatives? Is dat it? You have to excuse my ignorance, but do not blame me, I am ze peculiar one here. Blame it all on Roseanne, zat bitche: she brought my selfe to your butifoul culture. Au revoir to all ze folks, be merry, enjoy ze life and drink ze wine.
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Hey, Sam! Thanks for informing me of that theonering.com petition. It covers the major issues without being too fanatic about them. But I already knew about the other petition and refused to sign it. The guy who wrote the intro to that one doesn't seem to accept ANY change. I find the increased role of Arwen to be a good idea. As long as she doesn't become a bloodthirsty warrior, I won't lose my faith in PJ. Remember... it's *PJ's* interpretation of LotR, and when I'll go see it, I intend to judge it in that perspective only.
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I guess I meant that Sutherland LOOKS too old to be Denethor. I know Denethor is old, but there are older characters, and who would play them? 100 year olds? hmmm...I just think Denethor, given his lineage would look younger than Donald Sutherland...
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Sam, you ask questions for which you have ze answer. 'Twaz dat bitche Roseanne, I tell you. And maybe zat nonsensical film where Al Pacino kept going "ooo-waaah",
wat was it called, Bent on a Woman? **** Zatiz correct morGos, I hail from Montreal. Zat's right, ze cheap version of ze ooo-la-la. Who'z dat ozer 'elf'? You're not sinking about zat shrieking goat C -
Your neighbors in Ontario gave us Rush though, so I forgive you
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I suck dick!
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Dick? Who'z Dick? Yet anozer mysterie for mee
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May hoards of flaming Balrogs bring you to your doom, imposter morgoth. The Dark One is supreme!
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PUUAAHHHHHH!!!! I'M HUMAN! I'M HUMAN!! I CONFESS!!!!!!!!!
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Come on Harry! Give us some more news! Make up some lie, will you! puh-LEEZ!
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......a worthy adan,............UNTIL HE GAVE IN TO THE DEPRAVED LIES OF THE MORGOTH. I knew that away from our influence you would weaken,,,ah Celt did i not warn thee. It has ever been so with the Atani. I am gone for a week, and the morGoth overruns the northlands. Prepare for battle, vile former vala....and thee as well "Chief" Celt (sad that you truly believe your new title). If you will not turn you will be destroyed as straw in the furnace. Eru n'du vardaliena!!!!!
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Cast news: Liv Tyler scheduled with tatoo guy at 2am CST ~ Not news, but what else is new? ~ I need a job ~ Warning: may cause drowsiness, caution must be exercised when operating machinery or motor vehicles ~ What some guy said ~ What some guy said about my site ~ What I said about some guy who said something about my site ~ Tolkienite caught in bed with Trekkie ~ TORN mentionned in Danish newspaper 'Danskdefeldtakt
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morGoth, I thought you became evil only because of your envy for Iluvatar. But in fact it was Vogon poetry all along. What else could have produced such a warped and twisted mind? The real wonder is that you survived it at all. Maybe the Vogons saw in you a kindred spirit due to their unique sense of aesthetics. Well, all is now clear: morGoth learned all of his evilness from the poetry of the Vogons. They are the TRUE masters and you can't say anything to that, morGoth. After all, how many inhabited planets have YOU destroyed with huge ugly yellow ships? **** Oh freddled gruntbuggly / thy micturations are to me / As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee
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Alas, Vanyar now stands alone (dramatic pause, ridiculous melodramatic music, archaic stage pose) for all the world has succumbed to the wiles of the morGoth. I know all too well, what "special attentions" I would receive from thee, Master Blackheart. And I know that Celt, [deluded into thinking he is now some sort of "chief" in morGoth Hoglir's hierarchy] is also in the camp of the enemy, but now Sam I Am? Et tu SAI? Then shall Vanyar gird himself for the Great Battle. Have at thee, Glamhoth Dung!!!!!!
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Sadly, the article didn't mention it. However, it did mention that it was the BIGGEST, TALLEST, GREATEST tree, and that this was a TORN Exclusive.
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Dear Sam: I agree with you, but I also think you indulge in self-induced paranoia. I advise you not to mention the critical notions of the ones over at THORN, or that of their contributors. THORN is a thorn in my .... OOOPS! Sorry that musta been a slip... Still, I'm not alarmed by this particular spy report. It's nice to know that something is happening while we slumber here. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........... More fine elven draught, anyone? Utumno shooters? Butterbur brew? z.z..zzz..z.zz.zzzzzzzzzz
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knobby headed? I wonder what that could possibly mean. I suppose you're suggesting I have a 'tangled up' mind, but that would be too much of a compliment, so there must be something I don't get!! Alas! Have you ever wondered what triggered Aragorn's decision not to follow Frodo but the whimsical pair instead? Of course Merry and Pippin were in immediate danger, but should he really care? There is also the fact that his part was with Gondor in the War of the Ring. Nevertheless, his decision still seems contrived to some of the people I've discussed this with. What if, and yeah this is nothing but an if; what if the other person pursued by the Uruk-hai in the scene described is indeed Arwen? (They could have picked her up somewhere, let's say um... Cerin Amroth?) Now Aragorn must choose between Frodo and his beloved.. That would be the pure 'nineties' scenario, the pure BS indeed. How heart-wrenching... the guy loves her so much... they make such a great couple. Sure, it sells, but Aragorn has never faced such a choice. He faces his doom in the War of the Ring without Arwen ever bumping in, and that is a key to the story and character of Aragorn. Sometimes details can be very significant. I don't care if Legolas' hair is brown or blond. But fiddling with major plot twists is another thing. This is my worst-case scenario. An idea which came not from my knots but those of SIA... Curse them! On a tangent: I remember PJ saying that he has given an up beat flavour to the ending of FotR. Very nice of him to care about the spirits of the audience, but the Two Towers better end with a boom and a clang, in the darkest PJ fashion. Sorry about the writing, still a bit drowsy. goode bye
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Stretched to thin like too little butter on a piece of bread. The Loaf of Power worn by our intrepid hero, Wheat Germ, who must battle his archnemesis, Darth Mold (aka Agent Molder) and his evil henchman, Skully. Yeah, I read the article over at TORN, and thought it sounded like the Breaking of the Fellowship. Expect combined scenes where they shorten the story but try to deliver what's in the book. Arwen at the "breaking"? I doubt it. Of course maybe she heads off with Frodo and Sam, adding a bit of romance to the otherwise dreary journey into Mordor. That would just about make my day.
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SAI: Many apologies..I did not read your posts closely enough. Sorry I overreacted...glad to know someone is still on Eru's side. ****** morGoth: Tsk, tsk....poor paranoid Aratar, my "Hoglir" comment had nothing at all to do with thy backside (pimply though it may be), but with another part of thy evil anatomy. Are you familiar with the modern financial term -- PORK BELLIES! Skulk off to the Outer Darkness with thy namesake and gnaw thyself in grief and frustration, foul one! Namarie.
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Pray tell, but do your ears fall off in Autumn and sprout a-new in the spring like all the other good leaf-shaped things in the world? Mayhap they do, for now 'tis winter, and yet ye cannot hear the word of morGoth! He does NOT LIE. He IS the TRUTH. . . the truth of darkness.***I wished that Elves could also grow new heads every year! It might make them more interesting.***Angband is yesterday's Hotel! We have the S-club in Dol Guldur if you're up to it!
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....so try not to explain explain the light to the sighted....nor TRUTH to those who sit at the feet of its source. As morGoth's foot-licking lackey you have sunk so deep in the black mire that anything that glitters (in this case, morGy's malice-filled eyes) that he appears to be "true" to you. Alas, I pray to Manwe Sulimo and the All-father that I may yet rescue thee form the clutches of him whose only goal is the destruction of all but himself. repent before the Great Battle descends upon Thangorodrim. The Vanyar tarry but a while. Namarie.
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An Elf speaking brave words! Surely the only words Elves speak are idle ones! You may try to save me from the darkness, O Vanyar of the falling ears, but let me explain that it was the light - the LIGHT of the goodness that blinded me! Here in the darkness where I sit, I have no use for eyes. Blindness matters not. Come then, Eldar! Bring you armies! They will be lost and prone in the darkness. They have no chance. . . HA!
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You will turn back to the light...I sense the good in you (oops, wrong movie). All thy boastings, and bile is but veneer covering a wounded heart that needs mending. Heed the words of a herald of Manwe and return to the truth of Eru and his children.....nought awaits thee in morGoth's camp but death and eternal separation. Anar kaluva tielyanna.
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. . . but no lembas. Try again, Vanyar. I snear at your veneer. Why don't you give us a song, brave Elf. Lull us with your dulcet tones and sombre spirit. Tell us of the stars and trees, lest we forget that they make EXCELLENT fire-wood. I could make a pretty pyre of your homestead! Tear down your talans and rip down the mallorns! Your forest awaits my harvest.
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Such confusion! Such hastiness! Are the Spy Reports accurate? I don't know. I guess it depends on the sender of the report, not on Xoanon. In my post entitled "Gasp!" (for reasons most unclear to me at the present), I did not question the authenticity of the spy reports. SIA had remarked that the "Spy" was GUSHING about how great the whole thing was, and since SIA disagreed, I wanted to point out that every bit of news on THORN is always great, and nothing sucks. NOTHING SUCKS. (Boy, you're great PJ, how about a little interview for my site? lick lick...) They never critique for the benefit of their readers. For it is their own benefits that matter (crushing the little bugs - let's say other sites - and licking the fat asses - let's say Harry's or Scoop's - is good for business indeed). That sums up the things I know for sure; as for the Spy Reports, I guess many or most are authentic, and of course some are bullshit, but that is to be expected. In general I find them very interesting, although for the past few weeks, the news have been quite insipid (if there are no news, none should be posted! this filling-in-the-blanks is a tiring practice). But Sam, about "The Prancing Horse": to me this is only the guy misremembering the name of the inn. Experiencing problems with Tehanu? No, no, no: try Xoanon, my friend. He's the real thorn in THORN. I'm dreadfully serious today.. can you bear it? I'll be quick, I promise. There is still the matter of the Breaking of the Fellowship. Sam has laid before us a nice array of motives for Aragorn's decision, which I can readily understand. But face it: these are highly unsatisfying in terms of Hollywood BS (couldn't find another term; this one fits nicely), and that is what makes my worst-case scenario not so improbable. It all depends on how PJ bends to this dictatorship. This we will perhaps learn with in the new 20 questions, due to appear soon, I hear??? ??? ? ~~ That's right: since morGoth spoke of 'another disinformation campaign started by those Eternally vigilante elves', I have changed stripses and become overtly Human (such an affiliation with E I could not bear). I guess the nick 'greenleaf' loses meaning, but not altogether, one can argue. Namarie!
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I hope that all this comotion regarding Aragorn and Orcs is related more to a scene inclusion near Weathertop than to the breaking of the fellowship. PJ might have slipped some Orcs in after the Nazgul attack, just to press home the urgency of the flight to Rivendell. Who knows? Any one out there have any REAL idea?
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I think you may be right....at least it is quite feasible, given the fact that there are "old ruins" nearby. That's using yer bean...ol' bean! Any possibility it might be just before the "crossing of the ford of Bruinen" scene? I hope not...that needs to be pure Nazgul. It could also be after the Fellowship departs Moria and is headed for Lorien...hence Aragorn in charge, etc. Lots of possibilities here. Namarie
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I for one will be tired of those awful Orcs by the end of The Two Towers. I'll be damned if companies of 20-30 Uruks can be found roaming near Weathertop. How can you get four furry halfwits to Rivendell if they have to face such obstacles? Nine Nazg
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LOL, of course we're speculating... All of this is preposterous! Solely for entertainment purposes! No one claims anything: stay your wrath, O Dark One! But that too, I deem, is solely for entertainment purposes!! hehehe This doesn't change anything to the fact, which stands alone, that an Uruk-hai dispatch to Weathertop is, um, inappropriate. Samwise should be called Fullwise for that last post. But no, I should never trust you: I actually went back to check the report (upon reading the plausible deductions of Inspector Celt, er, Chief Inspector Celt, I kneuw that, I kneuw that...), and found no mention of anyone but Frodo and Aragorn. Where does it say that the Uruks were pursuing someone else (besides Frodo), as you said previously, SIA? *** If this assault by Uruk-hai is actually related to a major event in the book (Weathertop, the Ford, Moria, the Breaking), we should consider all eveidence: Hill, ruins, Uruks, and Aragorn telling Frodo to run. Something he wouldn't have done at Weathertop, with the Nazg
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DON'T YOU FUCKING LOSERS EVER SHUT THE HELL UP????? You fucksticks talk to each other like you're a bunch of faggots. 15 days have passed since this Talk Back began and you lot are still here?! Christ almighty! What sad, sorry fucks. By the by, I only dropped in myself to have a good laugh at your expense. HAHAHAHA! You guys are lame! HAHAHAHA!
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Alas, morGoth, you are mistaken: I like the "entertainment" part. I always loved the entertainment part. But perhaps I'm not in an 'entertaining' mood. If some is offered, though, I'm glad! 'Entertainment' has been the link to this post-talkback appendice, if I remember it right. Oh yes, I'm quite tired of being judged to be "right", to the point where I become skeptical and quite unmoved of being deemed right or wrong. And being 'absolutely right' does not regenerate discussion. I have therefore few need of treats right now, thank you!! Mmmm... Here's a question I keep asking myself: isn't something supposed to happen at the official site??!? We really need something to set our teeth in. At least it's pretty sure we'll have Ian McKellen's Grey Book from January on.
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I don't particularly feel she is lurking about in that scene, but it may be where Aragorn suckers the orcs into chasing Frodo so he can ravish Arwen up against the cold stone walls of Moria. It's about a ten minute love scene and we get treated with a soft porn scene where Aragorn gently nibbles on the points of her ears and Arwen shows us that elf-maidens can suck a tennis ball through a garden hose ( ouch). I wrote PJ beseeching him to omit, but he's pretty stuck on it. I guess it's the date flick aspect of his scheme.
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Loathed am I to even answer you, but I noticed that you counted how many days we had been running at this. Do you call yourself zombiefarm because that is where you were raised? How many times did the pigs kick you from between their toes before you made it out, made it away . . . made it all the way to the W. W. W.? If you are going to troll, please at least, show some ingenuity! Your first attempt at impersonating morGy kinda worked. Now you are dull - dull and pedantic and worthlessly irritating. Please go back to the pigs - I'm sure they probably miss you more than we. Namarie!***And to the decent folk - who mentioned anything about the Uruk-hai? There were plenty of goblins in the Misty Mountains, remember! Some one sure as hell helped Gollum escape! All I'm hoping is that an attack from the Orcs doesn't replace the Nazgul at night . . . I'm sure it won't, of course. I'm sure it won't.
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I dunno. The dark lord has set many traps in his day. Could this be alter ego run amok? Or perhaps just a playful attempt to spur this talkback on to 500k? NAHHHH.It's just a little kid who was probably flamed with darkness and has nothing better to do than jerk off on his computer. Jeez, zombie, show a little imagination. You leave us yawning and a little irritated. Don't you have a fencehole to look through? At any rate, come on out of hiding, add to the discussion, get original. Or get ignored...
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I don't know about you, but I was still talking about that fabled(?) report, were "Uruk-hai" is specified. .... Yet another plausible scenario by Elwe Sigollo!! We're dead on, right?!! Hahaha, PJ, we've got you covered!!
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