Cool News
Rhys Ifans To Play Curt Connors/The Lizard In SPIDER-MAN 3D!
Beaks here...
The Wrap's Jeffrey Sneider is reporting that Rhys Ifans will play Dr. Curt Connors aka The Lizard opposite Andrew Garfield's web-crawler in Sony's 3D reboot of SPIDER-MAN (which needs an official title soon, damn it!). There are a multitude of storylines from which screenwriters James Venderbilt and Alvin Sargent have to choose, and there's no word on whether they plan to use one in particular or do a hybrid. I guess I'm partial to the '60s origin, but I've really no strong feelings here. I just want them to make a film that justifies the reboot.
Ifans is a great actor (something he proved again this year in Noah Baumbach's excellent GREENBERG). It's a shame Dylan Baker never got to play The Lizard, but I've no qualms with Ifans taking over the role.
Sneider also says that, contrary to speculation, Venom will not be in the new SPIDER-MAN. What do you think?
Readers Talkback
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Oh well.
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the writers and director and actors do. This could go either way still.
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Three films of setup via cameos and he's replaced for the 4th when he'd be the villain.
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Shame they didn't bring back Dylan Baker but this could work!
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And one I'm not entirely convinced of. It's a shame as Dylan Baker could have really got to you in that role, but of course that won't happen now. I'm just not sure Ifans is that kind of actor to be honest.
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They're always the most compelling characters.
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The Episode "Pathogen". 19th October. Tuesday. Syfy. Stargate Universe.
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I was hoping for him and Electro. That's my vote.
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Because I'm calling BULLSHIT on this one. Ifans is all wrong for Curt Conners.
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Back then I was like the suits, partial to humans. Seemed like a good idea until I saw that it left him with a big hole in the ass of his pants.
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The worst thing this reboot could have done would have been to reuse green goblin or dock ock. This is good news in my book, too bad spiderman is being played by a 35 year old again
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then Fantastic Four should not have been so lame. After all, Dr. Doom is an awsome villain.
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Oct. 13, 2010, 7:01 p.m. CST
i like how movie news became comic book movie news
by DioxholsterRestored
like batman superman spider man xman wtf hollywood
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As I must be the first to reply to one of your SG outbursts, i expect you're quite excited right about now, But i've got to say NOBODY really cares, except you. Stargate is old, tired shit.
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It would be like having a Jurassic Park movie with a single raptor. I know some people hate multiple villains but multiple villains doesn't ruin a movie. The Dark Knight and X2 had multiple villains and those movies are considered the best in the genre. Put Kraven in there using pretending to hunt the lizard when Spider-man is the real target. Spidey trying to save Connors while being hunted for sport could make a great story.
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Oct. 13, 2010, 7:04 p.m. CST
i guess you care more about Spider-man: New Moon?
by DioxholsterRestored
you like that gay shit dont ya
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I thinl Kraven would make a great enemy for Spider-man. they do not have to do the suicide, which is why I think they have avoided him so far.
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sam rami must be pissed
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Definitely some good news concerning the new Spiderman reboot. I was also a big fan of the whole Kurt Connors/Lizard-Spiderman Nemesis storyline and the Lizard was one my favorite villains (I am so glad to hear that they didn't go with a lame villain like "The Vulture")
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I don't have *any* sources. I'm trusting Jeff Sneider's diligent reporting.
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And then the moment he leaves because he can't make a story with different villains work in the time they have scheduled, they start over, give the project more time and decide to go with the Lizard as the villain.<br><br>Wow... That's pretty dickish. Still, whatever... At least they got their heads out of their asses in regards to this villain.
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what a coincidence! how all these freaks poped up at the same time!!!!!
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"The Amazing Spiderman"
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The kicker from the Replacements is not the Lizard
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That's the title...at least it should be. I have very little interest in this reboot but if they want to set themselves apart from the Raimi films, they should do what they were afraid to do for Spider-Man 2. <p> The Amazing Spider-Man - first movie <p> The Spectacular Spider-Man - second movie <p> Ultimate Spider-Man - third movie. <p> It's kind of obvious but studios are stupid. You have to tell them these things.
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I hope they'll do Venom/Carnage justice in later films.
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hes so fabulous
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You said last nights SGU would be all about the revelations, the episode we'd been waiting for. I'm never trusting a random stranger on an internet message board again :(
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With the utter failure of Spidey 3 and the complete mishandling of Spider-Man's most popular villain, I don't see how just The Lizard could resuscitate the franchise.
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I fucking love The Lizard!
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I would have preferred Dylan Baker, but it looks like Raimi might never have gotten around to that anyway (rumors were that the Vulture was going to be the singular villain in SM4). So, I'll finally get to see my favorite villain in a Spider-Man movie. Now, I just have to sit and worry for the next year or so about crappy CGI. Oh, well.
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one of those great villains who work in the funny books but i can totally envision the overly slick and not-quite-frame-syncing CG fest it's gonna be. <br> the other side of the coin would be connors ending up merely 'disfigured'...like, sharp teeth, rough skin, and loss of hair. <br> that is shitty they'd NOT do the lizard because there'd be no recognizable actor's face, then decide to use the lizard with an actor that most of america does not know, or thinks is paul bettany.
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...is that Raimi spent the time to introduce Dr. Conners and Dylan Baker made him likable so that when they got the chance to use the Lizard, the audience would care if the guy was saved and cured. I doubt most audiences will even know this new guy was playing the same character, so he'll just be a new character to them, which will lessen the connection.
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They're gonna tie in Lizard's origin via the same means that turned Parker in Spidey. As in, it'll probably be the same accident that turned them both into what they are, except in Conner's case it could be more potent in that he actually transforms into the Lizard whereas Parker just gets Spider powers. Although if they want to make it mroe interesting, I suppose they could go the Man-Spider route too where Parker grows six arms and is then inevitably in danger of becoming a full human-spider just like Conners who became the lizard. This could provide for some cool fights between man spider and the Lizard and inevitably Conners and Parker when they're in their right state of mind must help each other to find a cure... Would make an interesting origin story, they might as well play around with this since they're at it...
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Oct. 13, 2010, 7:25 p.m. CST
Better Lizard Than Venom, I always say!
by MARCEL_THE_NEGRO_PROJECTIONIST
Lizard will be the grittier, more classic Spidey way to go, far as I'm concerned. It'd also be great to get Mysterio, maybe in the next installment, and of course, the Rhino. Also, love the casting of a an actor's actor with Rhys Ifans. I still remember how creepy he was as that guy who stalked 007 in that movie I can't recall the name of.
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So there you have it. The real reason Sony called for a reboot. Fucking bullshit 3-D.
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I like him and he is an underappreciated actor who would have brought a lot to that role. And if Raimi was still on board, he would have given him a great tragic story in regards to his horrific transformation and losing everything he had. It would have also been interesting to see how Tobey's Peter Parker would have reacted and tried to handle the situation, since Dr. Connors had become possibly his closest confidant. You can compare this to what they did with Hulk or even Batman but as far as needless reboots go, this is quite possibly one of the worst in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, this upcoming film has a lot of great things going for it (except the 3D) but the Spiderman films have become so familiar with the public that doing it this soon could confuse general moviegoers who don't keep up on these updates like we do. It could potentially hurt the film even. Plus, Raimi's story arc wasn't completely finished. And yeah, he had some hand in what was one of the biggest disappointmens in the form of Spiderman 3 but it wasn't entirely his fault. Had he been given enough control like with Spiderman 2, things would have been a lot different. I wanted to see him make a better film after 3 and I really think he would've had Sony not sold him short.
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How about just doing something new, that wasn't featured in the other 3 at all? That way, you can avoid this inevitable controversy that's brewing about Baker. First of all, that guy would have been fucking incredible. Second, its just stupid to pick a villain who it was obvious the original films were building towards for a villain. If there is one thing this reboot doesn't need its controversy about what villain they pick, and by doing this, they had to know the only thing people are gonna talk about is how Baker got screwed, who would have been better, Ifan or Baker, etc etc etc, instead of being excited about the villain or the movie itself. Such a bad decision. Hilarious really.
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But I thought the same thing about the Joker when I heard he was gonna be in the Dark Knight....so give them the benefit of the doubt until I see otherwise.
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He could look pretty goddamn amazing.
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connor's tragic turn would have been so much more powerful after 3 films of set up..(assuming they'd get to it)..but this is going to be too short of an origin for Lizard. especially if we are going to get treated to spidey's origin..AGAIN...and squeeze in the love interest in peril AGAIN and spiderman 4 in 3D is sounding pretty trite. which sucks because Ifans is a great actor that deserves a better- or more suited- villain role
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It basically tells me they are going the "origin story" route (and there are only so many) where Parker somehow encounters the spider and undergoes a (positive) transformation into spiderman, highlighting his nobility and goodness of character, creating the hero Spiderman. Meanwhile, on the other side of town, and under similar but slightly darker circumstances, Connor encounters a similar process involving some kind of lizard and undergoes a similar (but negative) transformation, highlighting his jealously, anger, and the worser angels of his characters, creating the villainous Lizard! Fucking weak.
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That is all.
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I've given up being critical and expecting the movie to meet what I imagine is the perfect Spidey movie. I know I am going to see it regardless. Anyway, I love the Lizard and hope the fight with Spidey is as awesome as Spider-Man 2 when Spidey fought Doc Ock. That still stands as the absolute best superhero fight on the silver screen. Anyone know how to pronounce Rhys Ifans????
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spidey has lots of great villains, but he's got plenty of stupid ones too. Lizard is the best choice of the ones remaining.
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they'll bring back Dylan Baker, and the transformation will turn him into Rhys Ifans. <br> or not.
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I'm guessing Spider-Man. I mean, they're calling The Thing prequel "The Thing" for Pete's sake! They called Rambo 4 "Rambo"!
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at the same time. On one hand: Cool the Lizard! Awesome! On the other hand: That's a lot of work by Dylan Baker right down the tubes. I hope this means no Venom as well.
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For all of the reasons above, and more. So much more.
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They can talk about how awesome things "could have been"
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Would have been nicer to let Dylan Baker play the Lizard in one of the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies. Sam needs to move over to the DC universe with WB. He'd make a kick-ass Wonder Woman.
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tha version didn't make any sense.
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Some people are acting like there was a huge emotional pay off being set up from the first 3 Raimi flicks. Gimmie a break. Dylan Baker's cameos were nothing more than dull filler. We didn't lose some grand emotional pay off.
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boy. the ninties. what the fuck were we all thinking back then...the things we thought were cool and held in high regard
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...just doesn't look like a Curt Connors to me. He could have done the Vulture, I can really see that. The problem is, Spider-Man villains are really kind of freak of the week type villains that I've never felt can support a feature-length film accept for the Green Goblin. However, what Raimi did with Doc Ock was great. I'm not going to lie though, I'm having trouble getting excited about this film the more I hear about it...
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As excited as I am about seeing the Lizard on the big screen, I'm upset that Sony is basically giving the middle finger to Raimi. I get the feeling that Sony not letting Raimi use the Lizard was some sort of dickish power play.
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Not literally, just in agreement. The casual movie-goer doesn't know or care about Dylan Bakers' cameo appearances. Hardly a hint as to his future in those films. And those films are OVER. Let it go.
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Sam Raimi doesn't have the legs, tits or ass to be Wonder Woman. ; )
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you have a point. I'm just saying that after playing the same part in three movies it sucks (for Dylan Baker) for them to go in a different direction with it, and I feel bad for him. Personally, I looked forward to Bruce Campbell's cameos a lot more.
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Is it Reese Eye-funz? Reese Ee-fins? Or Rice iPhones?
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the same way he wasted Venom. We could've dodged a huge bullet with a reboot. After Spider-man 3 it's obvious Raimi either stopped giving a shit or was running out of ideas. Give someone hungry with fresh ideas a chance. We don't need him anyway. The franchise is bigger than any single person's vision.
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they're just gonna kill him at the end of the movie anyway.
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could work out or could be cheesy. They can probably get him to physically look good and realistic, like the prawns did. What about facial animations though?
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Deadline is the only source right a majority of the time. It's a shame Raimi never got to play with The Lizard since his horror background would have made it a natural fit.
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Crap!
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I just have to put it put there.
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Bad.
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for never giving D.Baker a chance, The 3rd was a perfect chance and the 4th one was a another chance. But it never happened.
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nuff said!
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No shitty CGI PLEASE! They should put Del Toro in charge of The Lizard.
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the best thing that came out of Spider-Man 3.
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They are only using him because he was an early Spidey foe...like GG or Doc Ock. And he will look kind of goofy..they just could have done better but Spidey battling a lizard monster could be cool. I'll never pay to see this out of principle but will download it and check it out of course. Paying for it would be encouraging this sort of bullshit reboot behavior..funding it actualy and I'm not doing that. I'll leave it ot the rest of you to pay filmmakers and studios to make shitty movies and then complain about them afterwards.
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of the next installment of the Spiderman franchise. We suck dick, period
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I'm as big a fan as anyone of Spider-Man 2 and Spider-Man, but c'mon folks, Raimi gave Connors a couple of cameos that basically amounted to fan-service. Also, all indications are that Raimi was going to continue to screw up the series by inserting the Vulture (really?!) and Anne Hathaway as his daughter who was sort of the Black Cat but not really and who also wore a vulture costume. Cmon! A reboot that actually incorporates elements like Gwen Stacy, has a real silver age Spidey villain (I'm looking at you, Venom) and has thus far cast as its leads two of the most likeable and talented young actors in Hollywood sounds like a good start. I love Raimi, but those movies had ran their course. Everyone can blame Avi Arad and Sony for fucking up Spider-Man 3, but that movie was such a clusterfuck at the most basic level. Or maybe some of you guys loved that Sandman was retroactively tied to Uncle Ben's death. Or "Evil Peter," an element which felt 100% Raimi in its execution and humor.
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SPIDER-MAN ----> as in MAN, not boy! What a bunch of idiots (Sony)! Seriously, young Peter, again?!?!?!
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why would the Lizard look goofy?
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Missed your comment. In agreement, obviously.
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Venom as a silver-age Spidey villain??? <P>Get the fuck out this talkback! Venom is pure 90s fucking shite. Silver-age Spidey...Hahahah!<P>Are you 12 or domething you fucking knob?
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I mean, it somehow worked in the comics ... but a live action lizard in a white scientist coat? I've never liked the Lizard. Really wanted Electro in this one. Too bad.
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No substancial majority wants it or even gives a warm bucket of hamster vomit for it, stop ramming it down our throats and the more films you force out in 3D, the less films we pay extra to go see!
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Don't hold your breath waiting for Deadline to report it... cuz that would be an admission that I scooped The King of Exclusives Mike Fleming. I agree with you that a lot of sites right now report a lot of B.S. Follow my Deal Central column on TheWrap and you'll find out what's real and what isn't. And while you're there, note that I haven't picked up Fleming's stories about Tom Hardy in Batman 3 or Darren Aronofsky directing Wolverine 2. Hmm...
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If I'm not mistaken, Sony has film rights to the character, but not the rights to use the specific titles, like Amazing Spider-Man, Spectacular, Ultimate, etc. <p> Correct, incorrect, anyone? <p> And at this point, Disney/Marvel wouldn't give it to them now anyway.
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Fuck 'em, I was never feeling him as the Lizard anyhoo, also one baddie in this film? Eh, go the Chris Nolan right with two, like Shocker and The Enforcers in an opening action scene of some bullshit. Think outside the box you fuckers at Sony!
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But happy for Ryan Ifans.
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sick of hearin' all the Raimi love around here... "Awww man shiiii Raimi got the banana would have like to see how he would have done Liz..." Fuck Raimi that moron for making it so cheesy and Parker like deer in the head lights homo... good riddance... geessshhh
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I just hope they stretch the Gwen Stacy character out over 3 films and give her some resonance, and let the Goblin come along when it's time to off her. Stay true to the story.
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Say what you will, but Spider-Man 2 was one of the best films of the genre, ever, and was also a pretty great, straight ahead just a good movie in general, aside from the super-hero genre. <p> Just because only the first half of the first film was awesome, and the third one was pretty awful, doesn't mean the guy's a talentless hack all of a sudden. It's still Sam Raimi, one of the better genre directors.
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Look again at what I said. "A reboot that...has a real silver age Spidey villain (I'm looking at you, Venom)..." I was indicating that Venom was NOT a Silver Age villain. I think most understood my point. Your reaction, however, was, in a word, sad. "Are you 12 or domething you fucking knob?" I may be "domething" but I am certainly no "knob."
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sorry the whole trilogy was laced with cheesiness, a wuss un funny Peter Parker, painter Goblin Man, Sandman did-it-all-along, Power Ranger Green Goblin, every villain is a good guy,the list goes on.
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He's a new villain, thats the important thing. Its not Goblin again. But I like his potential to be scary and make for an intense movie, something less cartoony. I hope thats what its like. This has me really looking forward to this movie when I didn't care at all before.
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and minimum amount of CGI. This begs for practical effects
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Dylan Baker just got Billy Dee Williams'd
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on the case of how the Lizard should be done. Problem solved.
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If the studio wanted to go that way, they wouldn't have hired the director of 500 Days of Summer. I have a feeling that this'll be more Batman Forever than Batman Begins.
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Ugghhhh.
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The Spectacular Spider-Man and model it around the canceled Disney show, except have the characters be freshman or sophmores in college.
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Wasn't Sony giving Raimi a hard time about using the Lizard, citing that it was a "villain without a face?" If there was any comic book character that Raimi was born to bring to the big screen, it had to be the Lizard. And Dylan Baker really, really deserved a chance at delivering the performance of a lifetime(just watch "Trick R' Treat," the dude can play villainous really damn well). Webb is a good music video director who delivered one of the best romantic comedies ever, but none of that really inspires my confidence that he can deliver a bunch of exciting CGI-laden set pieces between a costumed guy who crawls on walls and a 7-foot tall Lizard man. I hope Webb proves me wrong, because i LOVE the casting of everyone so far, and I love the Spider-man property.
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Look, I am just glad all these movie studios spend hundreds of millions of dollars on cool comic book movies (and others) so I can watch them for a few bucks at a matinee or a few pennies on Netflix.
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Good thinking, re: the origin of Spider-man also being the origin of the Lizard. Personally, I hope they don't show Parker's origin at all... when David Fincher was approached with the chance to direct a Spider-man film in the late 90's, he refused because he didn't think it necessitated an origin story. I think thats especially true now, seeing as it was just shown 8 years ago. THAT SAID, I do like Johnno's concept of tying the two origins together. Parker is a geek who becomes empowered beyond belief with no physical/appearance-related side effects, where as Conners is a family man who becomes deformed into a completely uncontrollable beast, fueling Conners' rage towards Parker/Spider-man. it would definitely work.
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And especially Sam Raimi with his Vulture and Vulturess bullshit, and especially for the abortion called SM3. I agree, GOOD RIDDANCE!
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He would have been a great Electro. Wanted Baker to at least get his payoff and play Connors/Lizard for his big villain debut. Guess we'll see how this turns out...
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When are we going to get a Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends live action film? Firestorm was hawt, and I love hearing that generic roar like they would use for the Hulk.
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And work towards a live action Secret Wars or Civil War. Its got to be awesome and epic: Spder-Man vs. The Sinister Six.
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WTF... people are posting to the effect that this will be a continuation ala The Incredible Hulk??? WTF!!
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Oct. 13, 2010, 11:32 p.m. CST
just want to say "what a trip the Top Talkbacks are tonight"
by future help
Look at em' : Superman, Alien, Spiderman/Lizard, Empire, Batman, Back to the Future, and yeah, Super 8......just kinda'....umm...what's the word?...Cool.
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Rebooting a franchise this close to the original tells me a mistake was made and they're taking another shot at it. I invested good money in the first franchise and now I'm being told that franchise was a mistake. I say they owe me a refund. I want $9 for every time I saw each movie in the theatre, plus they owe me for the DVD's. OR they can comp me a ticket to the "repaired" franchise. They can reboot whenever they want - but they have to PAY FOR IT. Demand your reboot refund!!!!!!
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Hmm, does "Fuck" have a capital F?
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That's right. Those of you begging for Venom when he clearly did not fit in Raimi's vision are to blame. The produced forced Venom upon Raimi to satiate the whining fanboys, most of whom haven't a clue to good storytelling.
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Oct. 14, 2010, 12:54 a.m. CST
The fanboys ruined the Spider-Man franchise (corrected)
by The Krypton Kid
That's right. Those of you begging for Venom when he clearly did not fit in Raimi's vision are to blame. The producers forced Venom on Raimi to satiate the whining fanboys, most of whom haven't a clue to good storytelling.
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I for one wont be watching this movie untill dvd release
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I'm still shedding tears over that awful vision of what Venom came out to be in the 3rd Spidey flick. So lame and sad.
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Rhys is just another Brit who doesn't belong in a Spider-Man film. Fuck this project, seriously, and no I don't dislike Rhys, he's good in a lot of stuff I see him in. It's just that Baker's been waiting for fucking years to get his chance and all for naught. Fuck you, Spider-man franchise.
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Spider-Tween. That is all.
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"Dylan Baker just got Billy Dee Williams'd"<p></p> Since there are multiple winners who used that line, there will be no official award today ... but come back tomorrow to see who'll win "Best TB Line of the Day"
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Oh, sorry...thought it was the year 2000 for a sec.
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... SPIDERMAN IS AMERICAN!!<p></p> WTF ARE BRITS BEING CAST IN THE MAIN ROLES???<p></p> Not enough AMERICAN actors waiting tables and working as substitute teachers for you?<p></p> fuck YOU and FUCK your "reboot"
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the casting director is British. Another British invasion, oh no!
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It's called ACTING. Unless you want an actual American, radioactive, Spider/Human genetic fusion to fight an American Lizard/Human genetic fusion, your retarded point makes absolutely no sense.
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He should stick to making Evil Dead movies, as they're the only thing he's able to do correctly. If Raimi hadn't been a fucking child when he had to put Venom in the movie, he wouldn't have had to have the franchise taken from him. You don't like the character? So what?!? Make a strong movie, anyway.<BR><BR>You take Venom out of Spiderman 3 and you've still got a clusterfuck.<BR><BR>With the reboot, so far, I'm liking everything I've seen. If they want to do Venom again, they should wait until the 3rd or 4th movie of this new series. Do the Lizard first, do the Green Goblin second (but introduce Norman Osbourne in the first film), do maybe Doc Ock in the third, while giving Peter the symbiote suit, introduce Eddie Brock in either part two or three, and then have Venom in the fourth movie. Maybe they can do the character right this time.<BR><BR>And for fuck's sake, NO VULTURE EVER!! He is probably the lamest character outside of the Rainbow Raider.
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spiderman wuzza PATRIUT! we need a merrickan HEROES fighting aginst american BAD GUYS. <p> fucking bigoted nonsense. <p> You'll be complaining when there are too many British actors waiting tables and forcing American actors into unpaid web-shows. Petty island-mentality mickey-mouse bollocks.
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... because it wasn't intended to be taken seriously.<p></p> The sad part is that you did take it seriously.<p></p> If you wanna talk about it "seriously", then it's the casting that's retarded.<p></p> I've been in casting meetings and I know for a FACT that superior acting is NOT the end all. The fact that you don't even get to read until headshots are reviewed and narrowed down should be the first indication that "ACTING" is not even close to primary.<p></p> Having said that, and although I was just cracking wise (I'd never post entirely in caps), I find it extremely hard to believe that there were no actors out there who looked more like Parker NOR who are better actors than this guy.<p></p> ... at least, not until you take "The Twilight Factor" into consideration.<p></p> Yeah, everyone knows there are Brit Thesps who can do the American accent/voice, but wtf, this guy is better than, say, Emile Hirsch?<p></p> If they wanted the Tweener Bopper Demographic, they could've tabbed Zac Efron instead of this giraffe-necked guy with the caterpillar eyebrows<p></p>
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Visually he's arguably one of the most iconic characters in comics, but they made him look like a Power Ranger all for the sake of realism. Fuck that. It's a Spider-Man movie! Goddamn Raimi pisses me off.
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FYI: the studio INSISTED a lot of changes for Spidey3. They pratically forced Raimi to squeeze Venom in, cos you nerds cant stop whining about how much you want to see that black bastard. Raimi was pissed and wanted to make a GOOD Spidey 4 but the studio FUCKED him again. Fuck that money hungry studio and AVI ARAD. I boycott this shit.
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the guy is a superb character actor, seen him in tons of flics, he would have been a GREAT Lizard I agree with you guys. MOTHERFUCKING AVI ARAD AND STUDIO.
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Rhys is pronounced Reece, Ifans like Evans, but with an 'if'. He's first language Welsh, so if it is the Lizard he's well practiced in hissing and spitting.
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Who knew he had so many groupies lining up... holy fuck give it up people
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...isn't it? They should have cast him as Electro. He has the face for it, you know.
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Just sayin'
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It's pronounced Reese Iff-anz.
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I understand you on this - I do however think that if possible Raimi should have walked off the project when the studio were giving him shit... Or maybe it was too late contractually? One day perhaps we'll know the truth.
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met Rhys in a posh-ish bar VIP area in Dublin at the weekend, he was over there promoting his film 'Mr Nice'. Theres a funny quite good quality picture on her face book page with her and him absolutely, positively trashed. He was a riot by all accounts and very funny, but she says he was so trollied he kept on saying "MERRYSH CHRISSSTMAS EVERYBODYDSDSDS". <p> I told her about him being cast in Spidey over the weekend. She said "Fuck Spiderman, then only thing that would bring that bad boy down was an AA meeting". Some of his stuff has been great though, so bring it on.
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Is the same as Brandon Routh for Superman. They've built this connection now, and though I understand this is a reboot from the Raimi movies, there was something in the relationship between Parker and Connors that suited Baker. As others have said, Ifans seems better suited to Electro or Scorpion; possibly even Mysterio.
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As I said before, take Venom out of Spiderman 3 completely and you STILL have a shit movie. Dancing Peter? Crying Peter? Sandman who killed Uncle Ben? Exposition Butler? Extreme Sport Goblin? And he wanted to put the single lamest villain in comic history, the Vulture in it. And you're actually thinking that Spiderman 4 would've been good with the Vulture and daughter? He acted like a petulant child, when he could've manned up and actually tried to make a strong character. Not that that would've saved that movie. Take Raimi's cock out of your mouth and look at the truth.
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Make it as gay as possible
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Oct. 14, 2010, 7:27 a.m. CST
You know they're gonna tie Spidey's and Lizard's...
by HarryKnowlesNonExistentInceptionReview
...origens together, don't you? Which will suck, but I'm glad they're at least using one of the classic, old school villains. Hope the effects work isn't just Ifans in a cheesy rubber lizard suit like the Thing in the FF movies. By the way Beaks, it's either "wallcrawler" or "webslinger" not "web-crawler"!
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You know the Lizard will by CGI but they gotta keep the lab coat. Dont just go with the ultimate version.
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Oct. 14, 2010, 7:47 a.m. CST
Just don't go with the version with the big fin...
by HarryKnowlesNonExistentInceptionReview
...Tod McFarlane... what a douche.
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...And walked when the studio tried to force through the Vulture story in rushing Spidey 4 into production. <br><br>Clupula: take Venom out of Spider-man 3 and you change everything due to the lack of the symbiote. Peter doesn't need a reason to be so pissed at Sandman that he kills him (or tries underground), so it's questionable that the whole Uncle Ben angle would exist. Dancing Peter is symbiote driven as well. More importantly, when a production isn't struggling to make a massive portion of the story work, there's actually time to fine tune other angles. Raimi's inability to shoehorn Venom into the narrative was an anchor that dragged everything else down with it. In a movie that was massively crowded and unfocused, taking out a central problem element would make for a completely different film with no sure remnants of what we got.
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AS IT SHOULD BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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That'll be cool to see. But I think Dylan Baker, Eric Stoltz, and Billy Dee Williams should get together and have a beer over their lost movie roles.
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Let's hope the origin is glossed over in the opening credits. We don't need to see the spider bite, wrestling, uncle ben story re-hashed.
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He is a legend. You are d*bags. Sony is full of d*bags. Spider-Tween gets nothing but hate from me. That is all.
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The first half of the first film is great (I was never personally that hung up on the whole organic web shooter issue and I'm a spider-man fan). McGuire was great, but Kirstin Dunst as Mary Jane was a casting miss, she had limited range and made Mary Jane a very weak personality. The first half of the first film was pretty good, and Willem Dafoe was a great choice for Osborn, but the Goblin armor looks extremely goofy, and the bridge fight is uninspiring. Spider-man 2 is pretty solid all the way through, and overall a really good film. The third film is pretty much a disaster - I understand that Rami had battles with the studio over Venom, and it's too bad, because there are elements of the Sandman story which could have made it great, unfortunately Spider-man 3 wallows in cheesiness/campiness all the way through - I actually view it as a bit of Rami's "fuck you" to Sony, because he's capable of so much more. I don't have a ton of interest in the reboot, but then again I didn't think I'd be interested in the Ultimate spider-man series and that ended up being one of the best comic series I've read in a long time.
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Haven't read the talkback yet, but i assume the majority of people here are as chapped about this as i am... <P> I've been waiting to see the Lizard for 4 films now. I just love the Jekyll/Hyde type of character. I love the story and the dynamic between he and spidey, especially when Parker discovers the true identity of the lizard... Plus, it could look absolutely KILLER on the silver screen. I was hoping they would nail this character, and with the talent involved from the first trilogy, i felt they could. You need 3 things to do the Lizard correctly on film: <P> First, you need a director that understands HORROR. Not that it would be a "horror film", but you need a director that understands the genre and one who can bring the scary, the creep factor... And BINGO, they had exactly that with Sam Fucking Raimi! Remember the Dr. Octopus "birth" scene in the hospital?! Holy fucking SHIT, that was bad-ass! Imagine THAT, but through an entire FILM. Ugh... Now they got a young, unproven, Teenage-High-School-Romantic-Dramady film-maker at the helm. Not so sure about this one... <P> Secondly, to handle this character properly, you MUST SET HIM UP FOR THE AUDIENCE. Like, over MULTIPLE FILMS. Which is exactly what Raimi did. You need the audience to have a prior history with this character as to make his fall (or transformation) more tragic... Without any setup with the reboot, and a completely different actor, they have already dropped the ball on this. They have lost a lot of the pathos that they need to fully flesh out the character... and who knows, maybe this new guy can own this character, but we had an absolutely GREAT and perfectly capable actor in Dylan Baker, that would have nailed it without a doubt. <P> Finally, the last thing you need when doing The Lizard is... Fucking KRAVEN. As many have discussed on this website in prior talkbacks, the damn story writes itself. It's pure Hollywood! A freak and tragic accident happens to one of Peter Parker's closest friends and mentor, that transforms him into a terrifying creature. Spiderman discovers the identity of this mysterious monster and of course, won't finish him off. Thus, a "specialist" from the outside, the greatest hunter in the world, is brought in to handle the situation... An interesting dynamic is set up as Kraven is hunting the Lizard, but Spiderman doesn't want him to kill his friend... so we got a Kraven vs. Lizard vs. Spidey angle. Kraven ultimately ends up going after Spiderman, and so on and so forth, with a climactic battle royale that ensues between the 3 characters. That would be a fucking AWESOME FILM. Who knows, they could still go with Kraven... i guess we'll find out soon enough, but from what we've heard, it doesn't look very likely. <P> So now, with Raimi out, as well as a pretty damn solid existing cast (excluding of course, Kirsten "Snaggletooth" Dunst...), they have set themselves up to ultimately fail. A relatively unestablished director with NO background in horror (that i know of...), a completely new actor playing Curt Conners in a totally NEW UNIVERSE, and apparently NO Kraven... I'm not too optomistic guys. Also, with a much smaller budget, how good can they make the lizard look? As they are most likely going the CG route... <P> Goddamn, this makes me sad. I had my heart set on a Raimi directed, Dylan Baker starring, AWESOME Lizard flick. Looks like that ain't happenin'. <P> Sad day indeed...
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I had to get that off my chest ;-)
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Oct. 14, 2010, 8:52 a.m. CST
Tobey Maguire is punching a SONY mascot somewhere.
by idrinkyourmilkshake
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Oct. 14, 2010, 8:53 a.m. CST
Distraught and broke, Dylan Baker is now a petty thief
by idrinkyourmilkshake
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They could never really have a decent version of Carnage on screen, he's more of an R character than a PG-13 (who needs to see a bunch of off screen screaming and blood splashing up on the wall). I actually think Carnage marks a turning point in the Spider-man mythology, rather then continue the story with the usual villains it became the "symbiote of the week." While Venom may be considered a lame villain by some, the original run with the costume and personality change was at least compelling. Carnage was the equivalent of the torture porn horror genre.
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If they go with "Spider-Man Starts" or "The Arachknight" I'm out.
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I was dissapointed with the first Spiderman, initially... Upon further viewings it is kinda growing on me. I love the first act, with Peter discovering his powers and whatnot, and i love Willem Dafoe's portrayal as Gobby, and i love the score. I still don't like the look of the Green Goblin, AT ALL... i don't like his rushed origin story/transformation. And i don't particularly like Dunst. Also, the effects were a bit shoddy... <P> Spiderman 2 upon first viewing was, in my opinion, the best comic book film of all time. However, upon further viewings, i grow tired of a lot of the contrivancies, plot-holes, and whiney Peter, and BITCHY Dunst... I do like Alfred Molina, the fucking AWESOME train sequence, Bruce Campbell's cameo (once again...), and the brilliant hospital sequence. Overall, i think it is a bit overrated, and possibly even slightly behind the first one. I could go either way though... <P> And finally, Spiderman 3 was just PURE SHITE. No two ways about it. And i was so fucking hyped for Sandman. But Shoehorned-VENOM?!? "Conveniently Forgetful" Harry as New Gobby??! And the ridiculous "twist" that Sandman was Peter's Uncle's shooter??!?! What a fucking disaster... <P> The one redeeming thing from that movie was the fantastic piece of score during the "birth" of Sandman sequence. Holy SHIT. Christopher Young absolutely NAILED that scene. Pure beauty. May be the best piece of music in the trilogy...
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Gotta go with "The Amazing Spider-Man". <P> It's the only way...
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"I think that guys smoking on the field"
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Never understood those arguments, and you all will see this movie so stop pretending you wouldn't.
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the general public wont know anyway,batman&robin & forever weren't reboots but they different actors & directors nobody really cared ,it was just the next batman,as for the lizard i dont know how much its changed since the '60's but that origin made sense ,a scientist with 1 arm experimenting with reptile regeneration goes lab accident,but they should have baker as lizard & ifans as electro
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Also, Marc Webb's SPIDER-MAN to be REBBOTED ALREADY!! Starring Jesse Eisneberg as Spidey, Phil Hoffman as Doc Ock and blah blah blah!
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because retarded parents love fashionable names
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I mean, it added *so* much to Spider-Man 3 (rolling eyes here since you can't see me).
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When is Batman 3 due again? I've been hankering for a GOOD superhero movie since THE DARK KNIGHT and thus far I've seen nothing but diminishing returns. Guess I won't get what I want until Batman 3 is released sometime in the (hopefully) near future.
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Cause, you know, there are probably, like 4 or 5 people living in caves who couldn't tell you Spider-Man's origin.
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You all know that they will. Or they'll try to. The fact is, you can't better the Raimi/Toby suit, Alfred Molina as Doc Ock, Willem Defoe as Osbourne, it can't be done.
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Oct. 14, 2010, 11:48 a.m. CST
What's that guy's name....Jeffrey Dean Something or other
by HapaPapa72
He could play Kraven. He might be getting tired of guns by now, though.
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They've all had their weak points... but the ones that really break out are the ones that add some new depth to what was tried before. Raimi's Spider-man was the first to make the mild alter-ego actually important to audiences... to make the character behind the mask seem like a real, identifiable person. Donner's Superman did all right, but Clark Kent was such a winking "oops, what a fool I am" disguise for Supes that none of it really mattered. <br><br> Raimi nailed the out-of-costume hero side of superhero stories, and as a result WB relaunched both Batman and Superman based on his model. Both, I feel, were misses in that regard, but Batman Begins had more than enough of it's own going for it that it was able to rise above obvious MJ rip-off Rachel Dawes and expand on its mix of real world grittiness and fantasy with The Dark Knight. <br><br>But still, all superhero films seem to drop the ball somewhere... whether it's the hero, the villain, the plot, the tone, or some mix of all the above. I'm really waiting for a filmmaker to pull it all together and give us an interesting hero doing awesome things to stop a great villain who has an honest-to-goodness plot with an outstanding ending.
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Yeah, he would make a great Kraven and seeing how his plate is empty (lack of recent roles post The Losers) why not? He looks the part and he was great as the comedian.Shit, if downey hadnt landed the role of Anthony Stark, Jeff should have been considered for said part.
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Done. Also, feature Norman and Harry Osbourne, but don't have Norman turn into the goblin until the third movie, give him time to form a strong relationship with Peter first.<p>I can't wait to see pics of the costume and sets, and it'll be interesting to she the direction they go in with the costume when they finally do have the GG as the villain.
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Raimi's exploration of the out-of-costume side of Spider-man's life devolved into self-parody by the 3rd film. It didn't hold up as realistic or relate-able by that point and was forced melodrama. But Spider-man 1 owed a huge amount of its success to the love story angle, to the point where other studios aped it to poor results.
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Your comment on Raimi wasting Venom shows how little you know of the background on SM3. Raimi HATES Venom, and wanted to do ONLY Kirby villains, but Sony forced him to do Venom, so of COURSE his Venom would not be good. Asking a director to direct something he doesn't believe in will almost always result in crap. It'd be like asking Spielberg to direct a Twilight movie. Additionally, Raimi must be pissed, now, because he wanted to do The Lizard, and Sony said that they only wanted to do "humanoid" villains.
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Has a better ring thn williamsed. Lizard and Kraven plot is a great idea. Carnage R rated and well written could be radical in a sequel. Screw you narrow minds if you do not believe it can be done.
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Oct. 14, 2010, 1:07 p.m. CST
Yelsaeb and Nerd Rage, both good ideas for Kraven
by Grammaton Cleric Binks
But the studios are going to say screw you and add a few more minutes to Russell Brand's fifteen.
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I like it. At least Stoltz went on to do, and still does great things.
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... make Lizard bad ass like in the Shred storyline. He ate his own freaking son!!!
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Lizard could be cool, if the mix practical fx with CGI.
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Todd McFarlane may be a douche, but he never drew the Lizard with a fin. That was Chris Bachalo.
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both of these guys got fucked over.........such a damn shame.
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hats of to bobofatz LOL. Stolzed...poor Eric Stolz, Dylan Baker and Billy Dee Williams.
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period.
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done right. Infact, I hope some rebel director is able to do a rated R Marvel movie with all the badass characters that have been fucked over on screen namely Venom, Deadpool, Gambit, and even Ghost Rider, and Daredevil.
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You're all welcome.
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Ifans is charming, yes - but he's an excellent heavy in Hannibal Rising. I'm quite looking forward to this. The cast is terrific, and I hope they can get past 18,000 "The world needs a hero" monologues!
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i think its a combination of things. even though SP3 made a ton of $$$ it was atrocious. Seems like this time around Raimi wanted more control but Sony wasn't having that. <p> They were going to reboot at some point anyway so maybe they figured they may as well do so now. My guess is they'll also save some $$$ because they wont have to pay the new talent as much initially.<p> I'm in the camp that thinks raimi & mcguire deserved at least one more chance and dylan baker should have gotten his shot at lizard. <p> ah well
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It's more like Baker (who, I don't give a fuck about get lost) got Billy Dee'd like someone said on here, Eric Stoltz was never really in Back to the Future for the audience to see, Billy Dee and Baker were, so he got Billy Dee'd. He's with the Vultressess' now.
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I think six-armed Spider-Man would be an amazing thing for this movie, it would be cool to have this somehow tuned into the lizard's origin. Maybe they're caught in a common blast or something. In 3d, having the six arms...many visual jokes. Parker walking around in a bulky hoodie hiding four arms which are crossed across his chest underneath...looking like a pregnant woman. Also, I want to see a fight scene between lizard (using two arms, teeth, two legs and a tail) versus six-armed Spider-man. Too cartoony, or just plain awesome?
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No silver threads please...this movie should have a less shiny, more matte Spider-Suit
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"The Dark Knight and X2 had multiple villains and those movies are considered the best in the genre." <p> 1. X2 is overrated imo. It has a truly terrible final reel, even if the first half of the movie (at least) is rock solid. <p> 2. Two-Face as an active villain in The Dark Knight is the WORST thing about that movie. Too much, too rushed, unnecessary. It absolutely should have been left as a setup for a subsequent movie.
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"even though SP3 made a ton of $$$ it was atrocious" <p> I think I'm the only person in the world who likes S-M 3. And likes it a LOT more than the utterly dreary S-M 2. <p> Yes, S-M 3 is a mess. But it's (at times) a wonderful, hilarious, absorbing mess. I know I'll get pilloried for saying this, but it's my honest reaction to the movie. For me what you've gotta focus on is that it's a movie about Peter, MJ and Harry. Sandman and Venom are bolt-ons...almost irrelevant other than as adjuncts to the themes of revenge, hubris and redemption. <p> The fights between Spidey and Goblin Jr are fucking excellent. And when Spidey goes on his emo strut, and flirts with Miss Brant, it makes me laugh every single time. <p> I got my money's worth and I think S-M 3 is a totally entertaining movie. I guess I never had any hard-on for Sandman or Venom, so the feeling that they've been wasted as villains doesn't bother me very much.
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I'm with you. I like the 3rd movie and I have a good ol' laugh too when Pete does his emo strut. I like The Lizard, so I'm happy to hear he's in the new movie - though I'd have preferred to see The Scorpion.
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Totally agree with point 2. There always seems to be a need to rap things up too neatly. And then you run out of good villians too quickly. One of the really good things with the Dark Knight is that it didn't bother with the origin story of The Joker. Infact, they played with it.
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it's cool.........i feel the same way about xmen 3. I'm like the only person in the world who liked that movie better than the dreary part 2 which everyone loves.
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Despite some of the silliness, I think 2 was just a retread of 1 with better effects, whereas I felt 3 was actually about something, themes of revenge, redemption and forgiveness (esp. self-forgiveness). Now I wish they hadn't gone with a random meteor for the Venom thing, but hey. It seems like they might be doing things with the reboot, making it a bit less cartoony. I'm actually excited about superhero reboots. Comics do it all the time, different writers, different artists. I like to see different takes on a classic character. Remember, a reboot isn't the same as a remake. Now I just hope they make Spidey actually wise-cracking this time.
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It was Raimi, NOT not who didnt want the Lizard as the Villain in the film. Raimi said he didnt want the main villain not to have a human face, and if the Lizard were ever to be in his films, he would NOT be the main bad guy. It was Raimi who was pushing for the Vulture.
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Who will turn out better.
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I was a runner on a tv show and had to collect Mr Ifans from a radio interview and take him to the studio,however I totally forgot to take security guards and we had to cross the road to another building, we where mobbed by people and papps and it was mental.<p>I had to push a way through and get us back inside, cameras flashing and people screaming, I had never experienced that before.<p> Once inside he shouted at me so loudly my ears literally rang and I thought I would burst into flames at how red I went.<p> I apologised and he was actually okay then. <p>Weirdly I wasn't angry at him as it was a cluster fuck and could have been well dangerous, plus he's a great actor, annoyingly, story over.
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Raimi wouldnt have bothered to put Conners in each film if he didnt want to use him. From the original report in Movieline last Dec. When Spider-man 4 details were emerging:<br><br> "What does this mean for poor Dylan Baker, who’s patiently played Curt Connors in the last two installments? As much as it would seem that the series is setting up his eventual transformation into supervillain the Lizard, we hear that the suits simply can’t bring themselves to sign off on such an odd-looking enemy — instead, they’d rather hew closer to villains with a human face. "
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So it was probably more fitting that Raimi move on. By the end of 3, Harry is redeemed, the story of Uncle Ben's death comes full circle, Peter and Mary Jane's relationship evolves beyond something based on puppy love and princess worship to something based more on mutual respect and understanding, and Peter perhaps finally learns the true meaning of Uncle Ben's words, "With great power comes great responsibility." <p> After this, I'm not sure where Raimi could have taken the character where it hadn't really been before, other than Peter and MJ getting married. I personally like the way he ends with Peter and MJ holding each other at the end (as opposed to Peter as Spidey selfishly swinging through the city on another self-glorifying crusade), a strong emotional ending to a film trilogy, imo. <p> I think Raimi could have made an effective Spiderman 4 featuring a Lizard, but I think the character would have been a re-hash of the sympathetic professor in Doc Ock. Anyway, I enjoyed Raimi's run on Spiderman, and was one of a few who thought SM3 was the best film, but I'm not sad to see Raimi has moved on. Maybe I would've liked a more seasoned dramatic director tackle the new Spiderman, but the casting seems okay so far.
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Spider-Man: Man of Webs! <p> ;-P
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If you add in Kraven then MAYBE you've got a movie. The Lizard alone? Meh!
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Gwen or MJ.They were both in the comic at the same time. They became good friends. I loved Gwen (I really loved Gwen) Mary Jane was kind of a flake. It was Gwen's death brough Peter and MJ together, she was more Harrys girlfriend.
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that you came up with STOLTZED asshole? I dont believe you you fat ass motherfucker.
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I just don't get it. But then to like SM3 better? Inconceivable.
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I don't think anyone has yet to make a better superhero film. The sheer number of visual styles that Raimi shuffles through in that film is astonishing. Spiderman 2 is a true document of great pop art.
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the 3rd film was a major letdown for way too many reasons.Anyone who prefers this over the second lacks cinema cred.
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I did come up with "stoltzed". Sorry that your cunt hurts because you didn't come up with it first but that's how life goes douchebag. <P> Now go fuck yourself.
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I've never understood the hang-up about Two-face in the Dark Knight ("he was rushed" or "underused.") The Joker is the villain in the Dark Knight, Harvey Dent's transformation into Two-face isn't supposed to be a big origin sequence, it' just symbolic of Dent (and his hopeful, positive vision) being snuffed out by the Joker's reign of chaos. The fact the boat's don't choose to blow each other up at the end of the movie balances is intended to show maybe humanity isn't all bad (and to protect Dent's hopeful vision that's why Batman says they should frame him - which was a really dumb and somewhat pointless decision). But, I viewed it more as Nolan throwing a bone to the fans than anything else.
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anyone complaining about that aspect is just being picky
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What the fuck is it with the English actors playing Americans. <p> I blame this all on Hugh Laurie</p>
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Most decent actors can play most nationalities. Except for Americans. They are almost all fucking awful at accents, one assumes from a lack of exposure/practice. <p> Johnny Depp is pretty reasonable. But then, he's spent a lot of time outside the US.
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I have to say he's going to be an awesome peter parker.
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He should not have been killed. I think thats the main gripe with Two Face. They spend so much time building him up and he could have been a perfect anchor connecting dark knight with part 3.
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I was sorry to learn that I lacked cinema cred. This has come as a major blow. <p> On the other hand, I'm glad not to have lied about it. I've watched each Spider-Man film around five times. Spider-Man 2 is the least enjoyable for me, not least because Doc Ock simply doesn't work as a villain. You know he's a good man who's been possessed by the AI in his suit. That means you feel sorry for him more than dislike him. That's not what Doc Ock is supposed to be like. He's supposed to be an evil genius. This is compounded by the ending where he's "redeemed". Fucking boring, and a killer to emotional engagement. This isn't Star Wars where there's three movies to build a connection/arc and a true villain in ROTJ onto whom the audience can transfer their dislike. <p> It just doesn't work for me and never has. <p> You might make the case that this is no different from Osborne in the first film. But it's very different. You can tell that Osborne has always been an arsehole, and that the goblin drug just drives him to psychotic extremes. There's also no redemption moment at the end confirming that he was "a good man all along". This means you can celebrate his defeat and indeed his death. Not so with ol' Science Squid.
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Don't you think we have enough two dimensional ones as it is? Doc Ock was a breathe of fresh air.
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I rather liked that Doc Ock was semi-sympathetic villain. It's fairly representative of his usual comic characterization. Many times he's portrayed as somebody obsesses with science and driving scientific discovery, not wanting to take over the world or become a master criminal (a la Dr. Doom). Spider-man 2 is a great movie, it's a nice showcase for how less is more when it comes to villains.
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The problem was that Octavius wasn't a villain AT ALL. He was a fundamentally good - if hubristic - man who was being controlled by robotic implants. There's a fundamental difference between somebody whose villainous tendencies are released and enhanced by some outside agent, and somebody who has villainous actions imposed upon them by an outside agent. The problem is S-M 2 is that if there's a villain, it's a piece of hardware: the prosthetic suit. <p> When Peter is spending time with Octavius and his wife early in the movie, you can see that Octavius is clearly a good man. He's impatient, but he has nothing but good intentions for humanity. Turning him into a villain by sticking AI probes into him just doesn't work at an emotional level. You might as well have had the probes take control of Aunt May and have her go on a murderous rampage around the city to find Ben's killer. How are we supposed to feel if Spidey is fighting her? She's essentially trapped, manipulated; it isn't really her. So how can we root against her? How are we supposed to feel when she drowns at the end? <p> I can never get involved with action scenes where it isn't clear what's at stake and whether a victory for A or B is desirable. This is a fundamental problem with a movie such as Salt, where you spend 50% of the movie not knowing whether Salt is a hero or a villain - a catastrophic narrative move - and also problematic in movies such as Face/Off, where there are lengthy action sequences in which Archer overcomes his immediate danger only by killing his innocent comrades who mistakenly believe him to be the enemy. Am I supposed to cheer for him as he blows some co-worker's lungs out due to a mix-up?
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"It's fairly representative of his usual comic characterization." <p> No it isn't. He isn't usually portrayed as a good man whose obsession plus AI implants turn him bad. That's a false statement, pure and simple.
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Oct. 15, 2010, 1:01 p.m. CST
yea OcK was never a symapthetic vilain in the comics
by fat_rancor_keeper
no way - as far as i recall he was a str8 up bad guy
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Oct. 20, 2010, 10:55 p.m. CST
Stoltzed = I came up with that 1st: I TOTALLY DISAGREE!!!
by GoFuckYourself
Fat Rancor Keeper... I believe that Mr. Michael J. Fox came up with that one first, buddy.
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