Movie News

Ever Wonder How And Why STAR TREK INSURRECTION Turned Out Like It Did??

Published at: Sept. 23, 2010, 9:52 a.m. CST by merrick

Merrick here...
A while back, Michael Piller wrote a book about the making of STAR TREK INSURRECTION that was pretty much sunk by Paramount. Snippets and excerpts from Piller's tome have appeared online over the years, but the entirety of the piece has remained buried until now. For those who don't recall Piller's name, he was a writer/producer on many shows - WIDLFIRE, THE DEAD ZONE series, STAR TREKs DEEP SPACE NINE and VOYAGER, and the writer/co-producer of INSURRECTION. As such, he was in a position to offer considerable fascinating and illustrative insight into how STAR TREK movies were grown in the Berman era, and how and why certain things went both right...and awry...on the production of INSURRECTION in particular. The entirety of FADE IN: THE WRITING OF STAR TREK INSURRECTION is now availabe as a free download over at Trek Core, from whom we often seek TREK-related photos. You can find it HERE (note that this download - a .doc - may well auto-launch when you click the link). I haven't had a chance to go through it in too much detail yet, but what I've seen suggests this is a wonderful work from a great talent. If you've any interest in Classic TREK or THE NEXT GENERATION, I'd strongly encourage you to check this out.
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Readers Talkback

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  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:51 a.m. CST

    FIRST

    by RainesMaker

    who cares

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:52 a.m. CST

    awww

    by RainesMaker

    i got bitched

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:01 a.m. CST

    I've never wondered why it turned out like it did

    by slone13

    Never bothered to see it in the first place.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:02 a.m. CST

    It's book-length? Basically a couple hundred "pages"?

    by jim

    I know there was a lot wrong with Insurrection, but does it require that much analysis? Guess I'll have to read it to find out.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:05 a.m. CST

    I'd need a book to defend myself too

    by jupstin

    After the way the Red Letter Media Guy ripped it apart

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Loved Insurrection, won't apologize

    by Kremzeek

    I've never understood the hate for this film. The most common complaint I hear is "it was just a glorified TNG episode". Boo hoo? That's exactly why I love it. Especially after First Contact (which was excellent so I'm not knocking that movie at all). That film was great, but so different that I welcomed a change of pace. I felt more at home during Insurrection than the other TNG films. Granted, there are some truly awful moments (the joystick to control the entire Enterprise for example), but it does nothing to take away from the over all movie for me. I know I'm the minority, but I really enjoy this movie even with its flaws.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:17 a.m. CST

    No...

    by skimn

    ...

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:20 a.m. CST

    Died before his time.

    by puto tenax

    Great writer. I'm sure if he didn't have the Berman factor and was left alone, most of the TV Trek would have been better. Pillar, Ira Stephen Behr, Ron Moore and Bryan Fuller wrote some great stories. DS9 should've been and should be made into a movie.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:24 a.m. CST

    oh great a star trek thread....

    by emeraldboy

    how long before asimov lives drags his tired anti jj abrams into another thread in 5...4..3...2...1

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:27 a.m. CST

    Agreed, Puto Tenax

    by Kremzeek

    DS9 is without doubt where they should've gone next. They were too worried that DS9 wouldn't appeal to a mass audience. The problem was, the TNG films weren't being viewed by a mass audience either. So, I really don't see the harm it would've done. DS9 was a really solid show and if they did a movie version that was at least equal, I think it would've done just fine. Not a blockbuster by any means, but it had to do better than Insurrection and Nemesis. Bummer it's not going to happen, but I the JJ Trek is decent. Certainly leaps and bounds better than Nemesis.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:28 a.m. CST

    My latest movie review:

    by PRESIDENT BALTAR

    I haven't had a chance to go through it in too much detail yet

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:29 a.m. CST

    My latest book review:

    by PRESIDENT BALTAR

    I haven't had a chance to go through it in too much detail yet

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:29 a.m. CST

    My latest television review:

    by PRESIDENT BALTAR

    I haven't had a chance to go through it in too much detail yet

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:29 a.m. CST

    My latest script review:

    by PRESIDENT BALTAR

    I haven't had a chance to go through it in too much detail yet

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:32 a.m. CST

    Insurrection was a bad ST movie? since when?

    by KilliK

    ah yes the piece of shit NU TREK is good because it is fun but Insurrection is not good because what? too slow for the ADD generation?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:47 a.m. CST

    Ugh... I thought the article was actually gonna say something

    by ShiftyEyedDog2

    seriously...can we get a couple snippets? some of the book's bigger revelations?? ANYTHING besides a fucking link??

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:49 a.m. CST

    and yes, killik, Insurrection was a bad ST movie

    by ShiftyEyedDog2

    as much as I loved the Next Generation, Generations was just ok (they should have left the geriatric Kirk out of it), First Contact was pretty good, Nemesis was pretty bad, and Insurrection was pretty much shit.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:49 a.m. CST

    Read the first few pages

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Interesting read so far. But yeah Insurrection was pretty good, a storyline, characterisation, thematic depth, humanity... all the things that were missing from JJ's Star Trekwars. At least Insurrection was a movie made by people that understood what Star Trek was supposed to be about.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:49 a.m. CST

    and yes, killik, Insurrection was a bad ST movie

    by ShiftyEyedDog2

    as much as I loved the Next Generation, Generations was just ok (they should have left the geriatric Kirk out of it), First Contact was pretty good, Nemesis was pretty bad, and Insurrection was pretty much shit.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:49 a.m. CST

    Insurrection killed the franchise.

    by TheSecondQuest

    The Trek franchise was at a mainstream high prior to Insurrection- they had gained a lot of goodwill with audiences with First Contact, and fans were still digging DS9. Then came Insurrection, which failed to either service the franchise (by working in DS9 somehow, ignoring the war despite the Enterprise being the flagship) or service the film series (by tying together the plots of Generations and First Contact into some kind of psuedo-trilogy ala Treks 2-4) or even deliver a halfway decent movie (hell insurrection would have been a terrible episode of TNG). It was dull and an absolute insult to the characters (poor, poor Gates McFadden- you can tell she had to be suffering through this), an insult to the ship (despite having shown us what manual control of a starship is like in the series, instead, the Enterprise E is flown by...a Microsoft flightstick that rises out of the floor on a cardboard podium. REALLY?) and just an insult to moviegoers (you're really going to have your final fight with the bad guy on a set that looks like a bluescreen set that they either forgot to add the effects in for, or couldn't afford to do so, making the big finale look like a bad behind the scenes bonus feature on a DVD's extras). In short, it killed the franchise. Even if you had the best Trek movie ever made come out after Insurrection, the movie still woulda bombed, because there was no way to recover from Insurrection's awfulness (which was further amplified by Voyager and Enterise's "meh" factor). One can bash Nemesis all they like, but it's problems were mainly superficial (copying Wrath of Kahn's structure, using B4 instead of Lore, randomly unconnected dune buggy sequence) and at least Nemesis managed to deliver some entertaining sequences. Insurrection was entertaining for all of 2 minutes. Even shots of the Enterprise were just boring- how do you fuck that up, seriously?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:51 a.m. CST

    FACT: Abrams' Trek is the BEST of all Trek movies

    by ShiftyEyedDog2

    you original series purists are deluding yourselves, and as I said before the Next Gen movies disappointed for the most part. Abrams' Trek was the best made and most fun of all of them.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:56 a.m. CST

    Dune buggies leaving tracks all over pre-1st contact

    by UltraTron

    worlds is what the prime directive is all about. And screw anti-gravity because ripping ass with good ol rubber tires let's you really get a feel for the terrain of other planets

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:02 a.m. CST

    Nemesis >Insurrection???

    by lochkray

    No way. Nemesis was awful. Insurrection wasn't great, but it wasn't shit (IMHO). Nemesis was unfoccused and nonsensical (ie; an entire alien species turns over their planitary government to a failed extraterrestrial cloning experiment? That's like Dolly the sheep becoming the new British Prime Minister). What killed Star Trek was overexposure. By the time Insurrection came out, Paramount was already panicing as the general population interest that was gained during the TNG years started to drop. They didn't know what to do (make it like a simple small episode of the series! No? Okay, make it giant and epic, and don't worry about plot or established character! No? Okay, take it back a few years and put Scott Bakula in it? No?). Its just a simple matter of the public becoming bored. There was TNG, TOS movies, then TNG movies, then DS9, then Voyager, not to mention various ripoffs like Firefly, that Babylon whatchamakallit, Stargate SG1, that one with Kevin Sorbo...just Sci-fi overload. And away Star Trek went. No movie killed it. If the original Motion Picture couldn't kill Star Trek, nothing is going to. It just needs to sleep every so often.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:02 a.m. CST

    We learn that Worf's space bazooka was supposed to be green

    by durhay

    riveting

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:06 a.m. CST

    I wasn't aware...

    by maxwell's hammer

    ...the Star Trek: Insurrection ever turned out. that's just how memorable it was.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:11 a.m. CST

    ShiftyEyedDog2 and the reasons for being a bad movie is?

    by KilliK

    not enough pew-pew?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:15 a.m. CST

    To be fair...

    by drumble

    Insurrection may have not been a baddass actioner (like First Contact) but unlike First Contact, a clear fan fave, it is actually the Next Gen film that MOST RESEMBLES the actual TV series. I mean, come on, there's cheesy dialogue that mirrors the touchy-feely dialogue of the show (minus Will Wheaton of course), an alien planet that looks like parts of America, a load of hippy Roddenberry-esque do-gooding pacifist aliens who look like Californians, and there's even a bearded senior Federation guy who's a bit dodgy. Hell, Data even gets to have a sweet story thread with a shit-eating kid character. Let's not forget that pretty much every episode of the Next Generation took place on a similar sub-Californian planet and the "fountain of youth" is exactly the kind of morale posturing macguffin that they would have employed. I mean, when you think about it, I don't see why any Trekkies (and I'm one of them) should complain about Insurrection, as it is pure Trek, and definitely pure Next Gen. If you want a film that acts all dark and moody but features those characters then watch First Contact, which is awesome, and if you want something that purports to be Star Trek but in no resembles it, then watch Abram's version, which is passable. In the meantime, leave Insurrection alone. It's a mid 3.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:19 a.m. CST

    ST TMP couldnt have killed the franchise because

    by KilliK

    contrary to the general consensus,the first movie was a commercial hit.if it turned out to be a flop,are the fanboys so naive to truly believe that there was even the slightest chance in the world for a sequel to happen,especially after the general disappointment from the fans and negative criticism from the movie critics? no fucking way.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:27 a.m. CST

    Sadly, Abram`s movie was the best Trek

    by smackfu

    Aside from Khan that is. Putting all other considerations aside, it was the only Trek movie I was ever compelled to buy the day it came out on DVD, and the only Trek movie I ever re-watched multiple times in a short span. And it had nothing to do with the action. Chris Pine and Karl Urban had an incredible onscreen presence, and the sound was amazing, between Ben Star Wars Burtt`s sound effects and Michael Giacchino`s score. I mean Giacchino played scored a space battle with a fucking tearjerker theme, how ballsy is that. Any other sound and music combo would have had that scene filled with pew-pew sounds and action music. Abrams hired creative people who all wanted to make something beyond the lazy standard that had become `all we have to do is make a 2 hour TNG episode`, and that`s why the movie rocked.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:29 a.m. CST

    INSURRECTION SUCKED

    by Unlabled

    It was a TV episode with better CGI. Awful. Where was the grander scale?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:29 a.m. CST

    Insurrection = ST5 = TMP = fans overreact

    by KilliK

    ok ST5 is a bad movie and TMP,Insurrection have their flaws but you have to admit that they are the only movies closest to the spirit of the TOS/TNG series. the problem is that it is very difficult to make a good mainstream movie which is both an actioneer and a philosophical/social/human condition study.<br /> <p>that can work better in the format of a TVSERIES thats why TOS/TNG worked so well.on the other hand it is easier to make a good movie with a mass appeal if it as about action and drama/fun.Thats why WOK and FC were so great and so successful.Thats why you see the hardcore diplomat Picard from the series to transform into an action-hero in the movies.you have to make compromises and changes when you jump from one medium to another while you are aiming for the big bucks from your audience.thats how Hollywood business work.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:40 a.m. CST

    Two reasons for Star Trek's near-demise

    by Duck of Death

    Rick Berman and Brannon Braga. End of story!

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:41 a.m. CST

    "Insurrection" killed "Nemesis"

    by smudgewhat

    Any casual fan of Trek was rightfully bored by "Insurrection" and the franchise lost its credibility by the time "Nemesis" came around. I actually enjoyed "Nemesis" - esp Tom Hardy. Then of course the whole thing unraveled. But having recently watched Star Treks II, III, & IV it's hard to entirely blame the "Next Gen" cast for the failure of the franchise. B/c Treks II-IV were similarly low-budget affairs to the Next Gen treks. The expectation was that that could continue to be the level of production on Trek movies, but audiences had grown accustomed to much bigger spectacles. The JJ Trek got the kind of budget that Trek hadn't seen in years and it shows. I'd have to say that JJ Trek is the 2nd best one after ST:TMP

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:43 a.m. CST

    also, re: "Insurrection" i hate the rollback

    by smudgewhat

    by Piller of Data's emotion chip. The Data of "Generations" and "First Contact" was an evolving character. Then Piller tried to do a re-set to his TV show personality. They went backwards and fucked the character.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:47 a.m. CST

    Can somebody remove spambot kuani

    by orcus

    Jeez, they're everywhere

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:50 a.m. CST

    No, I haven't, actually.

    by ColonelFatheart

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:59 a.m. CST

    I loved the part where Worf got zits

    by FlandersBum

    Best Trek scene ever.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:02 p.m. CST

    Insurrection was NOT glorified TNG episode

    by thommcg

    In TNG Picard evicts native Americans from a planet for "the greater good". In Insurrection he does the exact opposite. TV Picard and film Picard are not the same person, much like TV TNG and film TNG are not the same... only the actors remain unchanged.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:03 p.m. CST

    INSURRECTION > FINAL FRONTIER

    by ATARI

    But that's not really saying much, now is it??<br>

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Thank you Lochkray and Drumble

    by Kremzeek

    Agreed 100% on all accounts. I still scratch my head in confusion over the hate for Insurrection - it *did* most resemble the beloved TNG series (despite the joystick controller and other minor flaws) - and that's why I love it.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:07 p.m. CST

    Oh except for the stab at JJ Trek

    by Kremzeek

    ...Don't agree that it "in no way resembles Trek". I think they were going for that exact feel, but they just didn't harness it completely. I'm definitely willing to give JJ and Co another shot. Looking forward to the next one.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:33 p.m. CST

    Isn't Dolly the Sheep....

    by HarryKnowlesNonExistentInceptionReview

    ...in reality the actual British Prime Minister? You had W's prison-beeotch, then a gray blur and now it's Dolly the Sheep. When they make a movie, they'll all be played by Michael Sheen. Oh right... this TB is about Star Trek.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:34 p.m. CST

    Insurrection WAS like a TNG episode...

    by QuietEnglishGent

    A damn good one that actually relied on story and characterisation. I think it's very underrated, especially as it followed the mighty First Contact. I thought Jonathan Frakes was a fine director on both pictures, a great pity the travesty that was "Thunderbirds" seems to have buried his movie directing career...

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:43 p.m. CST

    It was a glorified TNG episode.

    by Snake Foreskin

    The production values, the storyline... everything about it reeked of a television episode super-sized to fit feature film parameters. It was a dismal failure of a movie. I am sorry that Michael Piller never had the chance to redeem himself. And Frakes is not a great director. He handled First Contact okay, but mainly it was the Borg that enabled that film to succeed. Insurrection suffered from lack of an intriguing villain and a silly storyline made worse by television-level production values. Let's treat Insurrection as the failure it was and not sugar coat it for the sake of poor Michael Piller's ghost.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:50 p.m. CST

    i'm reading the pillar book right now

    by smudgewhat

    it includes letters from Patrick Stewart back to Berman & Piller about the script in progress, and Stewart nails the problems. he dissects Piller's script attempt and sees it as going backwards in characaterization. i agree with him.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:04 p.m. CST

    I remember thinking...

    by kells

    F. Murray Abraham is the bad guy? Sweet! And then...not so much.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:14 p.m. CST

    ST: Insurrection sucked balls

    by Marksman91

    There, I said it. Sue me. And now, it wasn't because it was hard to follow, people here who think it's an "intelligent" film are high on some other-wordly shit. It was just bad.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:17 p.m. CST

    IMHO First Contact is overrated...

    by MapMan

    I liked ST:FC when it came out for the most part but I don't care for it now. It was neat to see the Borg on the big screen but they could written a better story than the old tired cliche of time travel and the Borg enslaving humanity in the most inefficient way possible. Was First Contact really the most pivotal period in history to alter? Why not go back to first century AD? I'm surprised RDM never did time travel in BSG.<br><br> Time travel is way overused and abused in Trek.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:22 p.m. CST

    My rank of trek movies

    by Abominable Snowcone

    1) Khan 2) IV Voyage Home 3) TMP 4) Generations 5) III search for spock 6) First Contact 7) Nemesis 8)VI Undiscovered 9) Insurrection 10) JJ Abrams 11) V Final Frontier.<p> Just my opinion, in terms of which ones warrant re-watching

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Mapman

    by Abominable Snowcone

    I don't mind the time travel as long as it is used well. But get rid of "red matter." FUCK!

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:40 p.m. CST

    I fucking hate that movie

    by RPLocke

    It killed off ANY interest I had in Trek at the time. I couldn't believe WHY after First Contact did they decide to appeal to the average shit head who didn't even like Trek.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Insurrection lost me at

    by Coordinate_System

    <P>that blasted sing-a-long.</P> <P>After Insurrection, Nemesis, and Trek XI (and few others), I haven't seen a good Star Trek movie since the 20th century.</P>

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:45 p.m. CST

    TNG on screen was a terrible idea...

    by BurnHollywood

    There's this persistent myth that simply throwing anything on the big screen will make it exciting and "better"...this was a clear case (X-FILES was another example) where that notion was bullshit. The show excelled at telling cerebral stories with a measured pace, and the movies floundered badly in their attempt to "supersize" that approach and add action.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:46 p.m. CST

    wait, a book is more interesting than a trailer?

    by DioxholsterReturns

    no comment

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:50 p.m. CST

    I Cringed When Riker Flies the Enterprise-E Using a MS-Sidewinde

    by DarfurOnTheRocks2

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:51 p.m. CST

    I look forward to reading this.

    by Royston Lodge

    I hate Insurrection with the white hot passion of a thousand burning suns. I look forward to reading what Pillar has to say for himself.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:52 p.m. CST

    This says it all about TNG films

    by thommcg

    Page 25 "... During the seven years of the television show, Picard had emerged as a man of great principle and moral integrity. He solved problems with his intellect and communication skills and would never fire weapons unless fired upon. This side of him had not been explored in the other two feature films..." Ex-fucking-actly! Film Picard is not TV Picard, an unexplored side my ass. Might as well have portrayed Picard as a rapist, we haven't seen that either.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:55 p.m. CST

    im about half way done

    by Nemesis Enforcer

    With this book, and it seems to me this movie was a disaster from day one. Every treatment is worse than the one before it.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:15 p.m. CST

    I'm also about half way done and...

    by Leafy McPlantsalot

    This movie was fucked from jump street. All the initial ideas are terrible. That first outline was soooo unbelievably boring. Patrick Stewart really nailed it with his letters of concern.

  • Curious minds wants to know

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:29 p.m. CST

    Wow. Trek Core finally got a scoop

    by RPLocke

    Guess they got tired of ripping off other people's headlines.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:32 p.m. CST

    Se7en - Deuce Bigalow: European Gigolo

    by thommcg

    Where did that go wrong :(

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:38 p.m. CST

    just finished it

    by Superponte

    I agree with the previous posters: Patrick Stewart nailed it. In fact, if you look at his suggestions to make a successful film: Make it gritty, good humor, SEXIER...Isn't that what they did to a great extent on JJ's Trek? I enjoyed that Brent Spiner's first instinct was to just "kill Data off". And of course, he got that wish, and his exit in Nemesis.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:41 p.m. CST

    also, Picard really needed to pork Anij

    by smudgewhat

    i mean, c'mon, not even tongue kissing? poor guy never gets laid

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:48 p.m. CST

    from the piller book:

    by smudgewhat

    "Brent Spiner was still concerned about Data’s role. The story with Artim seemed to be taking his character backwards, he said. He felt his character had evolved past the issues of learning how to play. To him, it was almost like the last two movies didn’t even exist for Data." Exactly right on Spiner's part.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:51 p.m. CST

    Meh - Ive heard all this before.

    by magnetoelectric

    The best "version" to me is still where Data is the main villain for the majority of the movie. While its interesting to read Pillars point of view , none of this is news to me. For me, its always been an issue of balls. They didn't have the balls to go the extra mile and have Data go against Picard.With both characters believing they were taking the correct course of action.Ya know, Data coming into his own, acting out of some kind of certainty of truth and in believing his actions were correct.(Those people aren't indigenous of the planet, prime directive doesn't apply so Data is going to follow orders) Rather they went the cheap route, and as always with Data made his position derive from some sort of malfunction.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:58 p.m. CST

    i love this

    by Nemesis Enforcer

    None of us liked the idea of spending a great deal of time in caves. We’d used caves a lot on the TV series. We talked about creating ancient Alamo-like structures in the mountains for Picard to defend, but the budget ultimately defeated that idea. Caves, it would have to be, so I tried to create caves that were unlike any we’d seen before. I filled them with mud and mineral hot springs. In one version, I had an exhausted Doctor Crusher about to take a rejuvenating mud bath in one of the mineral-rich caverns until she sees a llama urinating in the mud. After reading that, Rick went home and told his wife, “I think Michael’s starting to lose it. He wrote a scene today in which a llama pees on Beverly Crusher.” The scene didn’t stay in the picture.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:59 p.m. CST

    futher thought

    by Superponte

    Another problem this film faced (and we all recognize modern films facing) is the stunning lack of originality. The first thoughts of Berman and Piller were not "What new adventures can we take this crew on?"- the hallmark of Star Trek. Instead it was "What story can we adapt into a Star Trek film?" and furthermore "How can we make it more like Star Trek IV, but more violent" The answer was a half-baked Fountain of Youth Story crossed with a healthy does of 'Heart of Darkness'. In the process, they destroyed both concepts and created crap. This one was stillborn.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:01 p.m. CST

    lol to Llama piss

    by Superponte

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:14 p.m. CST

    It felt

    by SQUIDDLY

    More like a longer episode of star trek and I liked it for that reason. Star trek films tend to market themselves for non star trek fans and its the data and picard show. Insurrection had more of the other characters which was good.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:14 p.m. CST

    "Ever wonder how and why.." Uh..

    by CT1

    As somebody already pointed out, RedLetterMedia will clarify EXACTLY what is wrong with this boring, flat, unexciting, lame joke filled crapfest drivel called a movie. Oh, sure, you can defend it by saying it was basically just a Next Gen episode.. except it was DONE a couple of times in the series, and done a LOT better. This was also obviously the beginning of the "Big 2" actors having creative input, which culminated in the fucking DISASTER that was called Nemesis.. aww, Picard and Data sing an old cutesy little song while bad CG shuttles fly around... FUCK YOU. Here is your daily horoscope: <p><p> "I just want to see her smile again.. hm? I just want her to know I don't care about the scars. So.. I stick a razor in my mouth, and do this.. to myself. And you know what? She can't stand the SIGHT OF ME. She leaves.. now I see the funny side.. now I'm always smiling. *girly Harry Knowles punch in the tummy* -giggle- A little fight in you... I like that." <p> Deep raspy growl: Then you're gonna love ME! *KA-THUMP!!!*

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:22 p.m. CST

    ShiftyEyedDog2

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Hahahahahahahaha.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:25 p.m. CST

    How i'd rank them:

    by kwisatzhaderach

    1) Khan 2) TMP 3) Voyage Home 4) Undiscovered Country 5) First Contact 6) Search For Spock 7) Insurrection 8) Generations 9) Nemesis 10) Final Frontier 11) JJ's Star Trekwars

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:32 p.m. CST

    I saw this film on New Years Day on a comedown.

    by Smashing

    I thoughbt I was having a mental breakdown as I watched it, I could not believe this was being offered as a Star Trek movie, it's okay enough now to watch as a TNG adventure looking back but as a movie it was a joke.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:47 p.m. CST

    I think Data should have sided with the So'na.

    by Royston Lodge

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:55 p.m. CST

    The problem with the TNG movies

    by tao_pilot

    They were way too impatient to get them on the big screen. The big reason that TMP was so successful was that fans had been waiting TEN YEARS to see the original crew again. TNG fans only had to wait 6 months... Generations might as well have been season 8. Personally I would have let DS9 run it's course, then start production on the TNG movie. That's five years for TNG fans to miss the characters and be anxious to see them again, and five years for the writers to have thought of some really creative stories, perhaps ones that didn't involve time travel. I love time travel more than anyone, but it was far too overdone in Star Trek.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Totally Royston

    by magnetoelectric

    Thats exactly what I'm saying, its all right there and the story basically writes itself. Data under orders, sent to relocate the Baku, which leads to conflict with Picard. Picards position is Data's lack of emotion prevents him from seeing things from the Baku point of view. And Datas position is Picards emotions cloud his judgment, and not having emotions , he's the only one who can make the tough decision. Thats where all the "meat" is. A fundemental difference in opinion. Data could even accuse Picard of being effected by the planets solar raiation. Reading that Doc in its entirety, it becomes obvious the problems that faced every TNG film. Theres this great line in Decent where Data has been "turned" to evil by Lore and the Borg and he says "I'm not your puppet anymore" And here you see Pillar trying his damnedest to get Data back to his "Pinocchio" stage of Character development. They had Seven years of Television to establish who these characters were and where they were going. And every film with TNG cast attempts to re-write them. Also, Its basically script writing 101 that great stories derive from your characters. Who they are as people, their motivations,their relationships. Not "ideas" like flying motorcycle, gilbert and Sullivan or llama piss.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 4:01 p.m. CST

    What happened to Frakes?

    by RPLocke

    Did he really let Pillar push him around? And Stewart? Holy crap, he must be a shitty director.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 4:10 p.m. CST

    EARTH TONES, PEOPLE

    by Larry Sellers

    "Everyone wears earth tones! Browns and beige! And mother of pearl! And browns and beiges and dark browns and light browns and browns and beige and browns and beiges and dark browns and light browns and browns and beige!"

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 5:09 p.m. CST

    Does the book say anythng about

    by syn_flood

    The unfinished blue screen work in the finale aboard the collector?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Insurrection was a steaming pile of shit

    by Heckles

    Just bad in every way. It wasn't even a good Trek episode much less a feature film. I'd rather get a back rub from Tuvix, Voyager's answer to the Great Gazoo, than suffer through that turd-bortion again. <br><br>I'm a Trek guy, but Insurrection makes Final Frontier look like Wrath of Khan, except at the end of Khan you get blown by Megan Fox. <br><br>Stupid ass villains, cheesy plot, tired special effects. The writing, ugh. A tit joke? Why? Because Data saying "shit" in Generations got a big laugh. It's like an unfunny person who tells a joke and people laugh, then he repeats the punchline right away and it's awkward... that was the humor in Insurrection. <br><br>"In the event of an emergency, my body can be used as a flotation device," hahahahaahahaha fuck you, Data.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 5:43 p.m. CST

    How did the Baku NOT know about the Sona?

    by RPLocke

    Why didn't they think that the Sona weren't older Baku that left the planet and came back? It just doesn't make any sense. The Son'a had been in that sector for many years, and the Baku NEVER found even a dead one?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 5:45 p.m. CST

    And JJ's Trek is better than all TNG movies

    by Heckles

    I really liked First Contact. Best of the TNG movies by far. Probably in the top four of Trek films.<br><br>But, to say JJ's Trek is weaker than Nemesis, Frontier or Insurrection is fucking ridiculous. So is arguing about Star Trek on the internet, come to think of it. <br><br>Still. Hatred for New Trek and love of Insurrection is no doubt coupled with a hatred of deodorant and a love of World of Warcraft.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 5:49 p.m. CST

    I"ve never really liked any of the Next Gen movies..

    by conspiracy

    1. None of the stories have been that good.</p><p>2. But for Picard and Data...none of the characters were ever that deep or interesting</p><p>3. With the exception of Stewart and MAYBE Spiner...none of them are very good actors, yes I am serious. Although I'd watch Marina Sirtis in damned near anything where she shows those a hint of those amazing Greek/English tits and that big, moist muffin plush ass.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 5:54 p.m. CST

    Insurrection killed Trek for me

    by Yamato

    with Abrams abortion the turd on top of the shit pile.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Insurrection...PEEEE UUUUU!

    by ZodNotGod

    Insurrection inflates that old Trek joke of the bumpy-headed, white aliens. This time they were as dull as a silent fart, especially the female that Picard falls for. One of the worst performances in any Trek movie-ever. The flick had the makings of goodness but it felt like some ego-grand standing going on with its stars. The only scene worth a damn is the one where Geordi sees with his real eyes for the first time. After, Berman-itis sets in and proceeds to zap my will to live. After this, Trek 5 was no longer the worst Trek film. Still isn't.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 6:16 p.m. CST

    A film in which immortality is metaphor for oil

    by lettersoftransit

    These indigent people possess the secret to everlasting life, and yet we were supposed to believe mankind had no business trying to figure out what it was, and as if they weren't being horrifly selfish pricks for trying to keep it from the rest of the galaxy. As if they had nothing more useful and more important to share than a diamond mine. A truly stupid concept, badly rendered.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Underrated Trek Movie

    by _Maltheus_

    I don't get the hate for it. People seem to hate it because it's like an episode?? What are you doing at the movie if you weren't a fan of the show?? First Contact was an over the top action fest. It was fun to watch, but that's not Star Trek. Most Star Trek movies weren't very good. By the time Insurrection rolled around, I just wanted a new TV episode and was happy to get it.<br /> <br /> And no matter how bad you thought Insurrection was, Nemesis blew it out of the water in suckage. Now that's a movie with 0 redeeming values. Even the craptacular Abrams flick was better than that garbage.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 6:36 p.m. CST

    I saw each Trek film the day they came out

    by RPLocke

    but I saw Insurrection a month later. The commercials just looked dumb.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 6:38 p.m. CST

    I agree with those who like Insurrection

    by Jaka

    Although I still view it as a glorified two part TV episode. It's not a terrible Trek movie, though. That would definitely be Nemesis.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 6:44 p.m. CST

    The Star Trek movies...

    by Baryonyx

    ...are all too obviously tied to their TV origins, meaning that they are talky and un-cinematic, apart from Star Trek The Motion Picture, which was overlong but cinematic.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 6:44 p.m. CST

    What I am learning from this Book...

    by conspiracy

    1. Being a writer in Hollywood is not about being good...it is about the luck of meeting the RIGHT people at the RIGHT TIME, and having them promote you from poverty to relative wealth based upon 1 or two ideas that caught their fancy...not a proven, professional, talent filled body of work.</p><p>2. Professional writers, once under some director/producers wing, basically get paid handsomely to daydream for months on end, fuck around and bullshit under the guise of "research" and "script development".</p><p>Fuck I want that job.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 6:55 p.m. CST

    by unami

    made a quick cover and .epub, .lit, .mobi versions for our e-reading pleasure (.doc my ass). mobi (kindle): https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bxsr9uE76z67YWIwNDAxMTItNTcwYi00NmNlLTk5NDktZDYwNTdkZjI4MmM4&sort=name&layout=list&num=50 lit: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bxsr9uE76z67YTg0YmQxNjItNGU5ZC00MjA3LWIwNGItOTI1MGM2YjBlYjA5&sort=name&layout=list&num=50 epub (iBooks): https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bxsr9uE76z67MDRmOWNiMGYtYmY3OS00MTkxLTk4MGUtNmJiNjkxOTNkOTM0&sort=name&layout=list&num=50

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7 p.m. CST

    e-book versions

    by unami

    epub (iBooks): http://tinyurl.com/37uw6rl mobi (kindle): http://tinyurl.com/36kgu9a lit: http://tinyurl.com/3az8qtx

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:04 p.m. CST

    conspiracy

    by CT1

    Yep.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:05 p.m. CST

    Here's what Patrick Stewart had to say about the original pitch:

    by Chewtoy

    From the book, some of Patrick Stewart's response to the Insurrection story pitch:<br><br> In my first response I started out by referring to the first two TNG movies.  I think it is worth repeating that a large measure of the satisfaction Rick and I got out of First Contact was that we had pragmatically assessed the weaknesses of Generations and strived to address them.  With Brannon and Ron I think we did pretty well.  One aspect we sought to improve was a feeling we had that Generations in tone and style reflected the series rather than a movie.  Issues, relationships, emphases that were appropriate in a weekly series just could not take up screen time in a movie.  Often during the seven years I remarked that we were telling a story that would only be concluded when the last episode aired.  In Generations we carried over too much of our series style and the film suffered for it.<br><br> One deliberate change we made was to Picard.  We toughened him up, chipped away at his smooth surface, roughened and intensified his feelings.  Shifted him from Captain/ Diplomat/Philosopher to Captain/Rebel/Activist.  He could still be thoughtful but now it came out of the action.  He became more unpredictable and I felt filled the big screen in a more dynamic and interesting way.  These changes were reflected in other areas of the movie.  The gritty reality and humor of Lily and Dr. Cochrane, the steely, ambitious, ruthless and sexiness of the Queen.  We saw a new kind of Troi and - refreshingly - Riker.  Worf seemed changed by his time at DS9.<br><br> The movie raced forward, tumbling event on event.  It seemed to me to take half the time to watch than Generations.  I feel that, in a sense, we had reinvented ourselves - or had begun to.  The ‘story’ of the series was over and we were now telling a different story with our movies.  That is what I want to see continue.<br><br> That is the background to the unease that I feel with this new story.  It seems to reflect the series much more than where we were at the end of First Contact.  This compounded by Michael referring back several times to aspects of the series you want to see in this film.  That is what I see as retrograde and dangerous and, ultimately, dull. <br><br> I think it is retrograde to emphases ‘family’ so strongly.  I think that is sentimental and uninteresting and eventually leads to space heroes sitting round a camp fire singing “Row, row, row your boat...”  The family building aspect of TNG is passed.  Not dead, but the work is done.  Most of our audience know who these people are and how they feel about each other and our new audience - the audience the studio are so eager for us to win and hold - don’t need to be told that.  They will pick it up.  What our new movie family need to be is individual, charismatic, intense, opinionated, brave, funny, intolerant, sexy.  Larger than life.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:19 p.m. CST

    Cosigned to what Conspiracy said

    by qweruiop

    That's also the impression I got about these Hollywood writers' lifestyles. It's all about timing and who you know. I just finished reading his book, and even the way Piller described entering the Star Trek Universe all came from knowing someone on the inside (that Hurley guy). Plus I also felt that all those months he spent "conceptualizing" the script seemed like such a waste of time. (Didn't Meyer do Star Trek II and VI in only 2 weeks time each, start to finish?) One more interpretation I received is that Hollywood writers all seem so pampered/stoic about their work, and get very vengeful if anyone rejects it. Weird industry. Where else can someone produce material that will fail 99% of the time, and still get paid handsomely for it? Not only that, but also have their work sought after time and time again, even after so many failures? Any other industry where such a practice happens and nobody would ever hire them again. Only in Hollywood.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:36 p.m. CST

    The DS9 series was also into the Dominion War

    by RPLocke

    at the point, so the TNG movie had to shoehorn there movie into that storyline.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 8:02 p.m. CST

    The only TNG film that got the characters right.

    by Paul T. Ryan

    Come and get me Trekkers.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 8:20 p.m. CST

    It was a way better book, called the Ashes of Eden.

    by Briestro

    :o

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 8:22 p.m. CST

    Star Trek: Insurrection Was Trash: Stop The Apologists!!!

    by Media Messiah

    Next you'll be saying that Hitler was just a misunderstood nice guy, and Fall-Out Boy was the greatest band of all-time!!! Star Trek: Insurrection is a terrible movie-- one of the worst, ever!!!

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 8:25 p.m. CST

    And about F Murray Abraham

    by Briestro

    I guess Salieri is still being punished after all!

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:12 p.m. CST

    Thank You, unami...

    by Bill Clay

    I'm reading it on my iPhone now. Appreciate the work.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:20 p.m. CST

    Chewtoy's quote from Stewart

    by Unlabled

    Is DEAD FUCKING ON. If I wanted to watch another episode of Star Trek, I would have put in one of my VHS tapes. This was TNG on the BIG SCREEN and Pillar blew it.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:23 p.m. CST

    Did anybody SAVE The Link? :(

    by cymbalta4thedevil

    Piller's family asked them to remove it. Probably prodded by Paramount?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:25 p.m. CST

    It's Trek so it still wins.

    by Vallius

    I can be critical, and while it wasn't the "best" trek (a subjective assessment, really) I still enjoyed it.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:32 p.m. CST

    Unami

    by Kaitain

    Re: the eBook conversions. <p> You, sir, are a fucking star. <p> Thanks.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:33 p.m. CST

    cymbalta4thedevil

    by Kaitain

    Follow unami's links.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:43 p.m. CST

    damn Picard does get it.its a pity that nobody listened him.

    by KilliK

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:44 p.m. CST

    Picard = Steward

    by KilliK

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:03 p.m. CST

    Insurrection killed TNG movies

    by xile1c

    This signaled the end of an era for Trek. I'll watch I, III, V or even VII ten times each before I'll even watch a minute of that shitball.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:30 p.m. CST

    I felt compelled to sign up and provide my two cents...

    by JarrodPace

    Insurrection is the most underrated Star Trek movie by far. I can understand non-Trek fans finding it ho hum, but it staggers me whenever I hear Trek fans berating the film. First Contact was made for a wide audience (and delivered). Insurrection was, I believe, for the fans. It was the TNG movie that most 'got' the spirit of what Star Trek is. Or I should say was. When fans turned their backs on the film they effectively killed Star Trek. Nemesis was the result. A movie of terrible quality and, in nearly every respect, non-Trek. A vast universe built upon for decades and decades was lost. And while I enjoy the reboot it saddens me that instead of moving forwards with new, exciting, thought-provoking adventures and characters, we true Trek fans are now only going to receive a replay of that which we've already seen. Roddenberry would be ashamed.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 12:17 a.m. CST

    Need a link that is

    by NixEclips

    Just a .doc, I guess. I can't use any of those. Sometimes I feel like an R-Tard.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 12:33 a.m. CST

    I really liked insurrection

    by NADO

    Great reflection on colonialism, materialism, fast pace living, morality, aging, generational gaps and more. It is the most philosophical Trek movie. It has a wonderful musical theme. A cool space battle. And I think the love interest Anij is hot. It's much better then Generations and Nemesis.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 12:56 a.m. CST

    ...too bad

    by Unknown Canadian

    ...that Roddenberry didn't leave creative control to Stewart. The man knows characterization and story progression/longevity, but also seems to have his finger on the pulse of what both the general movie-going public AND devoted Trek fans would want.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 2:27 a.m. CST

    Fucking link doesn't work!

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    Error 404 my ass.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 2:30 a.m. CST

    Generations lost me when they destroyed the Enterprise

    by RPLocke

    REALLY? Isn't this like the 2nd Trek movie to lose an Enterprise? And the new Enterprise in First Contact was a piece of shit. It looked so damn tiny. Not a warship at all.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 2:56 a.m. CST

    404 NOT FOUND

    by JackPumpkinhead

    Damn, that DOES explain everything about "Insurrection"!

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 4:05 a.m. CST

    Insurrection was bad...

    by Jayemel

    ...but Nemesis is worse. I couldn't believe how amateur that movie seemed and how bad the story was while watching it. I still have horror flashes of Riker waddling across a corridor and jumping into a Jefferies tube.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 5:57 a.m. CST

    THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH INSURRECTION!!

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    That movie was great. I genuinely don't get the hatred for it. Same goes for NEMESIS. Great movie, and now all the fanboys are panting after Tom "Next Mad Max, AND I was in INCEPTION" Hardy, maybe they can go back to NEMESIS and appreciate the great work Hardy and P-Stew did in that flick.<P> Now, Abrams' STAR TREK - I can't say it's a bad movie, but the least Abrams could do is grow some fucking balls and admit it's a STAR WARS movie in a STAR TREK outfit. Abrams is the text book definition of the term "fucking hack"...

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 7:10 a.m. CST

    Alternate link, anyone?

    by ron2112

    The provided link is 404. Anyone got a mirror?

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 7:26 a.m. CST

    fascinating book

    by vivalabeck

    why did the family want it taken down? it was a really good read!

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 7:26 a.m. CST

    fascinating book

    by vivalabeck

    why did the family want it taken down? it was a really good read!

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 8:23 a.m. CST

    Let's Rate the Ships....

    by DarfurOnTheRocks2

    1) Enterprise NCC-1701 2) Enterprise-A 3) Enterprise-E 4) Enterprise-D ....

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 8:41 a.m. CST

    HERE IS A LINK TO IT

    by Unlabled

    http://bit.ly/9EfbLA

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 9:20 a.m. CST

    Thanks Unlabled

    by NixEclips

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 10:10 a.m. CST

    I Read The Book

    by SilentGunman

    And no one thought to put in a scene where Picard bakes a cake with a woman sitting on the toilet. Folks, there's your problem right there!

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 10:10 a.m. CST

    I Read The Book

    by SilentGunman

    And no one thought to put in a scene where Picard bakes a cake with a woman sitting on the toilet. Folks, there's your problem right there!

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 10:11 a.m. CST

    Plus no scene of Geordi

    by SilentGunman

    getting thrown around a turbolift. They did that in one of the episodes, and it was comedy gold.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 10:19 a.m. CST

    Love Boat: The Next Generation!

    by SilentGunman

    Set a course for romance! Set a course for love!

  • Sept. 24, 2010, noon CST

    THANK YOU unami!

    by brightgeist

    it's going straight to my kindle! :)

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 12:02 p.m. CST

    i love INSURRECTION and NEMESIS too

    by brightgeist

    they have great thematic elements

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 2:35 p.m. CST

    I'm about half way through now....

    by conspiracy

    and not only do I understand that Writers basically get paid to jack off most of the time; but I now I understand why the Studios are always a picture or two away from bankruptcy, and everyone else associated with film making is fabulously wealthy. These fucks ALL get paid for just hanging around!</p><p> YOu think any of these people is lifting a finger without a paycheck..that Stewart or Frakes or anyone else is "helping" development without at least a few sheckles from their "development" clauses being upfronted? No. So basically these fucks get paid to sit around and "develop" a film which may or may not happen...I bet the first year Paramount paid all these folks high 6 figures to sit around and daydream..even when they were off on other jobs. Insane way of doing business...but a good gig if you can get it.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 4:19 p.m. CST

    RPLocke, I never thought I'd say this

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    But you and I have finally found common ground - whodathunk it? And over the Next Gen movies no less! Well said, by the way.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 4:44 p.m. CST

    Exactly right, Conspiracy.

    by Jayemel

    That's why they churn out crap. No one takes it seriously because they're paid handsomely no matter what. <p> It's the same issue in pro sports. You guarentee these players all this money, do you really think they care about winning? <p> Hollywood is filled with a bunch of Albert Haynesworths.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 4:59 p.m. CST

    The Bicycle Sharer

    by RPLocke

    Well, any sane Trek fan hates most of the TNG movies. I'd say First Contact was the best despite the lousy ending of Cochrane dancing.

  • Sept. 26, 2010, 1:57 a.m. CST

    They could have made Avatar in 1998

    by tekagami

    They had Heart of Darkness mixed in with guerrilla warfare and a conspiracy of advanced people to take away resources from the less developed years before Avatar came out. They churned out a boring movie with all the characters wrong. Well Cameron produced a movie with politics and it was a hit. They were afraid the first pitch would be boring. http://tinyurl.com/fadeinsurrection

  • Oct. 1, 2010, 3:43 p.m. CST

    Er this still online?

    by Tall_Boy66

    Anyone?

  • Jan. 28, 2011, 8:04 a.m. CST

    Fade In pdf

    by Dave Simkiss

    http://issuu.com/pineapples101/docs/fade_in