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Hercules Deems J.J. Abrams’
UNDERCOVERS Autumn’s
Biggest Disappointment!!

Published at: Sept. 22, 2010, 9:28 p.m. CST by hercules

I am – Hercules!!
Pilot scores: A . Felicity A+ Alias A+ Lost A . Fringe C+ Undercovers Those four prior J.J. Abrams-scripted pilots left me dying to learn what happens in episode two. Not so “Undercovers.” I’ll check out next week's second installment out of respect for the Bad Robot brand, but I’ve no confidence I’ll make it to episode three. I even liked the pilot for “What About Brian” (an Abrams-produced pilot he neither wrote or directed) better than the one for “Undercovers.” Scripted by Abrams and Josh Reims (“Felicity,” “What About Brian?”) and directed by Abrams, the first hour of "Undercovers" sounds a little like Abrams’ “Mission: Impossible III” and a lot like a sequel to Abrams’ “Alias.” It’s about a pair of married ex-CIA agents (played by foreigners Boris Kodjoe and Gugu Mbatha-Raw) lured out of retirement (and away from their catering business) by a CIA honcho played by Gerald McRaney. Their mission is to find an old spy friend gone missing. “Undercovers” differs from “Alias” in that it contains no sci-fi element and takes itself a lot less seriously. Maybe not seriously enough, as there’s seldom any real sense of peril. There’s one solid comic moment, one we’ve seen in the promos, in which the marrieds catch each other going behind each other’s back to take the new CIA assignment. The expression on Mbatha-Raw’s face is hilarious but, again, we saw it in the promo. Another highlight is when the gorgeous Mbatha-Raw pulls a Grace Park and strips down to her undies while working undercover. The signature Abrams lens-flare makes a cameo, as if to remind us how much better “Star Trek” was than what we’re watching. USA Today says:
… the plot moves in lockstep from clue to clue without building any excitement or tension. Mbatha-Raw and Kodjoe are appealing performers, but their approach here is so casual and heat-free that nothing ever seems to be at risk. …
The New York Times says:
… feels like a “Harry Potter” for bored, involuntary celibates in midlife. … The banter between the Blooms is so full of cloying sugar substitutes and so devoid of any real tension that there is no voyeuristic thrill to be had even from their — I’m just going to say it, because the show does — “sexpionage.” The gazes they exchange are part soft pornography, part Lifetime television. Someone just give these people a cooking show.
The Los Angeles Times says:
… The writers seem so concerned with ensuring that their characters are preternaturally decent and likable that they go for sunny skies when there should be storm clouds. In the pilot, the main source of tension — Steven believes that Leo has turned and Samantha does not — never quite gets off the ground or under either character's skin, which is a shame. …
The Washington Post says:
… For all its jumpy, shooty, sexy potential, "Undercovers" is going nowhere if the spy cases are all as boring and predictable as the first episode's. …
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette says:
… adds nothing to the spy show genre. …
TV Squad says:
… 'Undercovers' looks great. But if you're looking for anything more than superficial eye-candy, you may be disappointed by this J.J. Abrams-Josh Reims espionage drama, which ditches much of what was good about Abrams' previous spy show, 'Alias,' and replaces it with, well, a whole lot of pretty-looking nothing. …
HitFix says:
… a show that does many things reasonably well, but nothing spectacularly. “Chuck” does both the romance and comedy better (this show’s attempt to use the made-up word “sexpionage” as a running gag falls flat), “Human Target” has cooler fights (considering that Abrams is directing, the mediocre action is probably the most disappointing part of “Undercovers”) … Everything seems like it should be fantastic, but I wanted more.
The San Franciso Chronicle says:
… It's light but predictable fun and airs at the family-friendly hour of 8 p.m., even though lots of people die in the pilot. Even with all that gunplay, "Undercovers" proceeds slowly, emphasizes witty banter and, if you miss "Moonlighting" and, duh, "Alias," this could be a fine alternative, even though it won't surprise you. …
The Boston Herald says:
… a woebegone spy drama with nary a hint of intelligence. Call it “The Quantum of Stupor.” …
The Boston Globe says:
… one of Abrams’s weakest TV ventures, one that is as bland as “Lost,’’ “Alias,’’ “Felicity,’’ and “Fringe’’ are original. The light-hearted international espionage series is predictable, pointless, and, worst of all, cutesy. It’s as if Abrams and fellow executive producer Josh Reims spent an afternoon watching “Alias’’ and thinking about how to dumb it down and strip it of any emotional underpinnings. …
Variety says:
… the show itself in some respects mirrors the initial problem with the central duo's relationship -- comfortable, perhaps, but failing to spark the kind of passion necessary to elicit fidelity from viewers. …
The Hollywood Reporter says:
… breaks no new ground creatively, opting for formulaic chase sequences from one exotic locale to the next and wooden banter delivered by its attractive central duo that might have been zesty and delicious had Abrams and company had the good sense to cultivate the kind of Nick and Nora Charles-derived wit that fueled "Hart to Hart" through multiple seasons. Instead, "Undercovers" settles for deadly dull dialogue like "one more case -- we're in, we're out, we're done" that keeps the series and its young, sexy marrieds-under-fire trapped in its own lazy shortcomings.
8 p.m. Wednesday. NBC.
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Readers Talkback

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  • Sept. 22, 2010, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Bummer...

    by DellsDontBounce

    Thought I would be looking forward to this, now not so much. Too much "good" stuff coming back that this just frees up another hour for something else to watch.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 3:45 p.m. CST

    by ShadowVision

    It's too bad. The trailers didn't make it look too appealing so I was hoping there was something more to this series than a "Mr. & Mrs. Smith" rip-off.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 3:53 p.m. CST

    The commercials were terrible.

    by RPLocke

    And from JJ that's disappointing.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 3:53 p.m. CST

    Herc is racist.

    by smackfu

    That's what we were going for when this was first announced right? That people who thought it looked completely uninteresting and had a boring premise and cast were racist, right? This and Chase I could literally not watch more than 10 minutes of. They both just oozed 'what's the point?'. Chase especially. That was the first time I ever felt something was *aggressively* boring. Like it wasn't just a lack of interest, it was so boring it felt like it was actually harming my mind.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 4:16 p.m. CST

    It just looked very "been there done that-esque"

    by donkingkong

    Yawn

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 4:27 p.m. CST

    Racism

    by Hipshot

    I don't believe the show has a prayer. But it isn't as simple as "if you don't like it, it's racist." Look at the statistics: out of many hundreds of successful dramatic shows, how many have had non-white leads. Two? Three? Now, if you're stupid you think this is some odd statistical artifact. It is simple: the average person has about 10% less empathy for those of other groups than for their own. This means that not only will audiences not respond as well, but craft people, even directors, won't commit, won't feel the characters as deeply. It isn't 100%--just a tendency strong enough to keep any Asians or Blacks from heading up network dramas that succeed even distantly proportionate to their representation in the actual population. So no, Herc isn't racist. He is, however, human. Meaning that he would tend to unconsciously seek more flaws. My guess is that black audiences will like this MORE than it deserves, and white audiences will like it LESS than it deserves, and you would have to split the difference to find its actual worth.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Bullshit, Hipshot

    by A G

    If the writing and performance is good, it won't make a difference. In an ensemble show like Lost I cared about black characters like Eko and (season 1) Michael a lot more than some of the other white characters.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 4:35 p.m. CST

    It's only disapointing for the Abrams Star-Fuckers at AICN.

    by cookylamoo

    Oh well, maybe John Favreau will do a show.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 4:36 p.m. CST

    "I even liked the pilot for “What About Brian” "

    by jim

    You know, I did too. But with each passing episode I liked the title character less and less. During one episode I came to the realization I could no longer stand this pathetic, whiney, navel-gazing, nit-picking tool and I stopped watching.<p>As for Undercovers, I'll give it a look.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 4:44 p.m. CST

    A year ago ...

    by MapMan

    ... I would have said that the *only* thing I've liked that Abrams was associated with was "L O S T".<br><br> After the series finale I can't even say that anymore.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 4:50 p.m. CST

    Damn

    by c. stone

    Actually was looking forward to this - per the long promo I saw, the leads look gorgeous and full of chemistry. Dallas Morning News gave it a huge rave - and that guy hates everything. But now...Still, will check it out. Oh, and I'm MWF, love all things genre, and don't care one bit about race. As long as it's good, I'm there.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 4:53 p.m. CST

    I give UNDERCOVERS a solid B/B+

    by thepentaveret

    No, it's not groundbreaking TV, but it is a hell of a lot of fun and has a good sense of humor about it.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 4:59 p.m. CST

    If the Event is the best and this is the most disappointing....

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    Will these be like a The Ring effect and viewers will die of boredom if they tune it to this?

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 5:03 p.m. CST

    I knew it was doomed...

    by Xaximus

    ...as soon as I saw the cast. Huge fucking fail, Abrams.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 5:15 p.m. CST

    Not one appealing actor in the lead roles

    by RPLocke

    WHO are these people?!!!

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 5:26 p.m. CST

    A.G.

    by Hipshot

    You think so? There have been many tests showing slight aversion between groups--it doesn't register consciously. This is why racial prejudice is so hard to remove from society--it's hard-wired. Just a slight tendency, no more than 5-10%. Enough to doom most attempts to cast anything but whites in dramas. I can grasp that you don't like the idea, but sorry, there it is. Note, A.G.--5-10% on average doesn't mean you in particular suffer from it. But it does mean that the people on either side of you would be just bigoted enough to make up for it.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 5:30 p.m. CST

    JAR JAR ABRAMS SUX

    by F-18

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 5:52 p.m. CST

    Hipshot

    by Katet19

    I agree to an extent but I find that it might not even be a tendency to look for flaws but may manifest itself as "the two leads are bland" "they don't look interesting" etc. It's funny because I actually thought to myself the other day "would I think the leads were as boring/unappealing if they weren't black". I'm with you though. Either way the show looks like a boring retread and I won't be checking it out.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 5:54 p.m. CST

    Bad Robot

    by somethingeasytoremember

    After the twin disappointments that were the finales of Alias and Lost, I can't bring myself to care about another Bad Robot show. They'll just hurt me again.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 5:54 p.m. CST

    A colored spy is not credible

    by BoRock_A_Boomer

    Unless it's one of those Tarzan countries

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 5:55 p.m. CST

    Two attractive people

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    In the blandest looking shit EVAH! I mean, for real, that's a good fucking looking couple, but the trailers and promos and shit for this inspire me to a big fat fucking... meh. Look at us, we're doing Mr. and Mrs. Smith on television! Fuck you, Jar Jar Abrams!<p>Although I will admit that I watched the NBC premiere thingy this weekend and the scene from "Undercovers" where the dude accepts the job at the hotel room door of Gerald McRaney, saying to him, "I'll do it, but absolutely, under no circumstances can my wife ever know about this." McRaney swings the door wider and the wife is in the hotel room, staring daggers at the husband! "Oh, hey, baby! What's up?" That shit cracked me up! Predictable? Sure. But I feel my brother's pain on that one!

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 5:59 p.m. CST

    ALIAS was quality stuff

    by DioxholsterReturns

    this is not.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:01 p.m. CST

    Race on TV

    by dukeroberts

    Hipshot may have a slight point. You may remember a show called New York Undercover that appeared on Fox from 1994-1998. It was the #1 show on TV with black viewers in its final season. Overall, it was 119th or so. It got axed. I didn't know a single white person that watched it, not even any white hip hoppers. Of course, this was just among the white people that I asked. Some I didn't ask may have watched it. Hell, I didn't watch it either. I watched it once. I didn't care for it. How many white people watched Living Single, Girlfriends, Martin, Moesha or The Parkers? Not a whole lot. Those shows found a niche. They had a very specific target audience and virtually no one outside of it watched those shows. How many black people do you know that watched Friends or Matlock? Probably not a lot. There have been exceptions, of course: The Cosby Show, A Different World, The Fresh Prince of Bel Air, Sanford & Son, Good Times, The Jeffersons and The Flip Wilson Show spring to mind, but they are very few among 60+ years of television. And how many dramas starring blacks, or having a majority black cast, have survived on network TV? I can't think of any. I remember one show called Under One Roof. It came on CBS for six episodes in the spring of 1995. It starred Joe Morton and Darth Vader/Mufasa himself, James Earl Jones. It was a pretty good drama starring an all black cast and lasted six episodes. Only old, white people watch CBS. And they didn't watch Under One Roof.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:04 p.m. CST

    "feels like a “Harry Potter” for bored, involuntary celibates in

    by Gislef_crow

    What the hell does that even mean? They have pet owls? They're whiny teenagers? Deus ex mechinas fly out of people's asses? Who knows?

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Yeah, nobody went to see Bad Boys

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    And Cosby Show never got any ratings. Not buying two black leads = Fail. Pretty sure we're seeing here that uninteresting rehash with the gimmick of two black leads = fail.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:14 p.m. CST

    Boris Kodjoe is worthy of leading man status...

    by Mr. Profit

    It just sucks that he finally gets a break as a lead, but he is in something that is getting such weak reviews. Poor dude. He is such a great guy in real life. No attitude whatsoever. Hopefully episodes 2 and beyond pick up.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:20 p.m. CST

    Where's Herc's overnights?

    by skimn

    Wasn't it this time last year he started that tradition?

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:21 p.m. CST

    HERC you forgot "Six Degrees"

    by D.Vader

    Boy was THAT one awful.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:22 p.m. CST

    I guess JJ didn't write the Six Degrees pilot

    by D.Vader

    NEVER MIND!

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:23 p.m. CST

    Thanks for the weekly tv schedule btw

    by D.Vader

    That's a live saver.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:24 p.m. CST

    BUT DOES GREG GRUNBERG POP UP?!?!

    by D.Vader

    Perhaps his lucky charm was unavailable for the pilot.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:28 p.m. CST

    Sadly, it's like the gimmick IS that they're black

    by terry1978

    If Abrams had come up with something a little more...Abrams-ish, like something supernatural/sci-fi that they have to deal with from out of the blue that neither has ever dealt with before, then it would spark some interest. I am black, and it does suck to me that this the first action/thriller show on the networks featuring black leads in I don't know how long, and that it could be doomed already.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:39 p.m. CST

    How Abrams creates TV shows:

    by CountryBoy

    He has a fishbowl full of cards ith one word on each... He pulls out three random cards and that's the show.<p>black married spies = UNDERCOVERS<p>collegiate female spy = ALIAS<p>paranormal island planewreck = LOST<p>curlyhaired collegiate female = FELICITY<p>paranormal government investigators = FRINGE

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:41 p.m. CST

    That's disappointing

    by funkylovemonkey

    Which is sad because there was really no other show coming out that had even a little bit of my attention. It seems like maybe Abrams was trying to curb the excesses of Alias and Lost with the supernatural meta-mystery stuff... but forgot to replace it with another hook. I'll still give it a chance, just because after Mad Men's season end I won't have much else to do.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:42 p.m. CST

    White People dont want to see black people

    by lecter1914

    On TV. I'm sorry, but it's just a fact. The only times this doesnt apply is if the black people are perceived as non-threatening(WIll Smith, Cosby Show) or if they are helping the black people out in some way (Precious, Blindside). I know people will never admit it, and it's not even intentional, but white people in general don't relate to black people and therefore don't want to watch them on TV. Black people don't even want to see black people on tv lol. Thats why in black shows the darker skinned people are typically meant to be the unlikeable ones and the lighter skinned people are generally the sex symbols. As a black film maker its something Ive had to deal with a lot in testing. The empathy isnt there. It's not hatred or anything , just indifference. Sorry.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:54 p.m. CST

    Now's your big chance to gleefully gloat, AsimovLives!

    by HarryKnowlesNonExistentInceptionReview

    Gloat away amigo, you've earned it.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:56 p.m. CST

    I guess that's why its been polled that

    by skimn

    Dennis Haysbert is the favorite fictional televised president (from 24)when a recent poll was held. Thanks for the simplistic worldview lecter.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:57 p.m. CST

    I will now create several Abrams TV shows...

    by CountryBoy

    collegiate paranormal female<p>agoraphobic psychic doctor<p>curlyhaired child president<p>tropical island lawyers<p>black collegiate time-traveler<p>married vampire cops<p>troubled futuristic hitman<p>wisecracking Asian spy<p>There's at least ten years of material right there...

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 6:59 p.m. CST

    @skimm

    by lecter1914

    Was Dennis Haysbert the star?

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Black characters vs. black leads

    by terry1978

    Massive difference. Every ensemble show claims the parts are all equal but each show has that one white "everyman" character that is the center of it all.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 7:13 p.m. CST

    @terry1978

    by lecter1914

    Thank you. Thats what I was getting at when Skimm brought up 24

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 7:15 p.m. CST

    I is the NYT review bagging on "involuntary celibates"?

    by Tall_Boy66

    Seriously, now, that's just uncalled for and downright mean.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 7:20 p.m. CST

    Well, that's ONE show out of 12 that's Bombed for JJ

    by RPLocke

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 7:42 p.m. CST

    At last

    by Mr Lucas

    a show for me. I am a bored, involuntary celibate in midlife. <P> AsimovLives will be delighted when this gets cancelled.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 7:50 p.m. CST

    WHITEBREAD SHOW?

    by Mullah Omar

    Yeah irony... <br> <br> I saw a very long promo for this several months ago and I agree that it had a very "been there done that" vibe. Actually maybe the promo wasn't that long but it felt like it went on forever. Bad sign. <br> <br> I don't know if race affects many viewers - it probably does - but I know from other shows that Gugu is hot as hell and might have been able to convert a lot of viewers if there were any sort of compelling story to wrap her around. <br> <br> However, don't count out a network show biting it simply because it's bland. If anything, a bland new show stands a better chance of hooking the bland network viewers who tune into the usual bland junk that clutters the airwaves. These are the same people who listen to Johnny Mathis so I guess they'll accept bland performers regardless of race.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 7:51 p.m. CST

    Seriously, that NYT comment is just downright mean

    by Tall_Boy66

    Geez, I'm already a bored, involuntary celibate do you have to rub my fucking NOSE in it, New York Times person?

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 7:54 p.m. CST

    Thank you lecter1914, I'm a little bit dumber now

    by funkylovemonkey

    I'm pretty much white as they come and I was looking forward to this show. The simple fact that there is a lack of black leads makes it difficult to make the point that white people don't respond to white leads. If they do then they're automatically deemed safe so the outlying data will fit safely within your world-view. Is Denzel Washington a safe leading man because I'm white and will watch pretty much anything he's in? The man portrayed Malcolm X, he's not Will Smith. My favorite Star Trek captain is Captain Sisko... In fact it's one of the reasons it's my favorite Star Trek despite several of the other white actresses involved kind of bother me (Nana Visitor, Terry Ferrell). Dennis Haysbert was the lead in the Unit as well, and I enjoyed his part of the show while not particularly liking all the wive's drama. Of course these are just subjective examples rather then facts, but then again so was your post.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 7:54 p.m. CST

    Watching the ending - it's corny.

    by RPLocke

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 7:54 p.m. CST

    @mullah

    by lecter1914

    disclaimer: I'm watching it...its is very boring...that being said, I still stand by my statement that in general black leads on a tv show don't appeal to white viewers. Look what happened to CSI's ratings when Fishburne took over? Remember the Taye Diggs show that had the groundhogs day premise?...gone. A recent example, a few people at my job were talking about their favoritereal housewives of where. these people could name and talk about every incarnation..but when asked if they watched Real Housewives Atlanta(the black one)...none of them did...and when asked why I got various answers but they might as well have just said "because it's the black one and I can't relate). Lecter out!

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8 p.m. CST

    I love the New York Times quote....

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    "...feels like a “Harry Potter” for bored, involuntary celibates in midlife."<P>Sounds like something right up AssimovLives' alley.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8 p.m. CST

    That ass shot

    by terry1978

    Sweet Jesus.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:05 p.m. CST

    i liked it

    by Bouncy X

    it was almost Alias-light, i guess it didnt help the compairison that the show is from J.J. , has Giacchino music and even the theme sounds Alias-ish. i like their transition thingy when changing countries. J.J. sure loves doing those things fancy in his shows and movies. lol oh and regardless of the show's quality that was THE best ending EVER.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:12 p.m. CST

    I've been saying this since I saw a preview months ago

    by Cash907

    but everyone kept arguing with me. "Oh it's going to be awesome, blah blah blah." Guess what, I was right: the show sucks, and sucks balls. The pacing is dull, the characters are flat and mentally as well as physically airbrushed, and nothing is believable. But I'm supposed to watch because the two leads are *gasp* of color! Yeah, no. Boris sucked in last year's "Surrogates," and GuGu is fun to look at, but so is the cute girl who works at the coffee shop up the street. I wouldn't expect either of them to carry a show like this on their looks alone, however. The worst part? These two have ZERO chemistry. Zilch. I'd buy them more easily as brother and sister then a married couple, happily or otherwise. Chuck and Sarah had chemistry right off the bat, the moment she walked up to his counter and startled him. Sidney and Vaughn both had chemistry the second he opened the door to the interview room. These two look at each other, and I swear to god I could hear crickets chirping. Bigger disappointment then The Event, as I honestly didn't expect much given it's pedigree and the network it was on, but this, a spy show from JJ no less? Pathetic.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:12 p.m. CST

    it was ok

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    better than event... i wanna support it only cause THERES BLACK PEOPLE ON NETWORK TV?! When was the last time that happened? and lost doesnt count, it shitted on its black characters.... but this show will be like daybreak (cancelled)

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:13 p.m. CST

    and now a pedo desmond on svu lol

    by yourSTEPDADDY

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:14 p.m. CST

    @yourSTEPDADDY

    by Cash907

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:15 p.m. CST

    @yourSTEPDADDY

    by Cash907

    THAT'S RACIST! Sorry for the double post, btw.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:15 p.m. CST

    Domi's Inner Child

    by Hipshot

    You don't read carefully, I'm afraid. I said DRAMATIC TELEVISION shows. And you said "Cosby." Then you talked about a movie. You "don't buy" that two black leads=failure. Well, other than "The Unit" and "Deep Space Nine" what dramatic shows with non-white leads have ever succeeded (lasted more than two seasons.) You don't have to buy it. I've been watching this phenomenon for thirty years, and it's totally predictable. I've said before that the way this sorts out in films is that if there is a non-white lead who has sex, the movie can't get above 100 million. The only exception to this is "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon." I have done my homework. You have not.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:32 p.m. CST

    cash... its not racist

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    seein as i am the token black tber here...

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:34 p.m. CST

    @lecter1914

    by Cash907

    Honestly, you're probably right. I'm an open minded white guy with friends of different colors, but don't really get anything out of Spike Lee films or anything with Madea in the title. I'm pretty sure I'm not racist, but you hit the nail on the head when you pointed out that people aren't entertained by things they can't relate to. I was raised in rural Alaska, so I have a hard time relating to comedies or dramas that deal with innercity ethnic life. on the flipside, I doubt many black folks watched Northern Exposure. I don't envy your situation either. Do you film what you know, and risk appealing to only one ethnic group, or do you try for a broader audience, and risk being called a sellout by your own community? I could make a film about daily life her in Alaska, but are people in NYC or California going to find the humor in one lazy moose bringing rush hour traffic to a complete standstill the way a local would? I will say that my problem with this show wasn't the color of the leads' skin, however, but the leads in general, and their lack of chemistry. If I'm going to buy the story and the world this show takes place in, I have to believe that these two loved each other so passionately that it drove them to retire from something they loved deeply and start cooking instead, but I don't because neither of them sells that passion even slightly. Instead, we're presented with two beautiful people with the same skin tone, and we're just supposed to make the leap of faith that that love once existed, but it's simmered down a bit now that they've both sunk into their daily routines. Brad and Angelina sold this scenario in "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" but unfortunately for this series, Boris and Gugu do not. What's worse, I don't know that either of them can, as I haven't been impressed with their previous work or their stuff on this show. I'm going to give it another few episodes, but I'm really not holding my breathe or expecting much at this point.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:35 p.m. CST

    @yourstepdaddy

    by lecter1914

    no, youre not the token talkacker (looks in mirror) nope, not by a long shot.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:37 p.m. CST

    @yourSTEPDADDY

    by Cash907

    The only reason for you to watch a show is the skin tone of the actors in it? That's pretty much the definition of the term SD, just as it would be if I said something like "the only reason I'm *not* watching this show is because of their skin tone. Oh, and Lecter is black too dude. And a filmmaker. So +1 for him.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:39 p.m. CST

    Dennis Haysbert is awesome

    by D.Vader

    Fact.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:41 p.m. CST

    Wilhelm scream saves episode

    by insightman

    Yawn, but the episode was saved at the end by the famous Wilhelm scream. (Wilhelm scream refresher: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdbYsoEasio) Now I'll watch every week!

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:42 p.m. CST

    And about "Bad Boys"

    by Hipshot

    Since you bring it up, the "Bad Boys" movies are perfect examples of how black characters are not given full humanity if you want to attract white audiences. Specifically, their sexuality. Now, I approach such films already knowing what they're going to do, so it's easy to see the strings you guys miss. 1) The "clever" switch of the Will Smith and Martin Lawrence characters. Mistaken identity, so that Will has to be with Martin's wife, and the "great playa" Smith is never left alone with the woman (who happens to be white, but this rule has nothing to do with the race of the partner). It was so transparent--sort of how in "Shaft" the woman's brothers were with her, so that Shaft would never be alone in a situation that might turn sexual. Transparent. 2) In Bad Boys 2...he dated the beautiful Gabriel Union in New York (offscreen) and she's Martin Lawrence's sister! Oh, the hilarity ensues as Smith and Union try to keep Lawrence from figuring it out. The entire romantic arc climaxes (so to speak) in...a single kiss between the two of them, in public, with witnesses. Wow! That was a close call. Might have been some sex if we hadn't stacked the deck! ## This stuff is so predictable. Anybody out there who doesn't believe me, want to bet there won't be a movie in the next year with a non-white star who gets laid, with the movie making over 100 million domestic? That number is arbitrary, but a good measure of "crossover appeal." Take a look at boxoffice mojo and look for yourself. Such films don't exist (except for Crouching Tiger), and if there WEREN'T some racial effect, you would expect approximately 10% of the movies with sexual content to have non-white stars. Why? About 20% of the movies over 100 million have sex. About 15% of them have non-white stars. You'd expect a bit of overlap, wouldn't you? Oh...by the way, this doesn't apply to black or Asian females, who DO have sex in 100 million plus films, so long as it's with white guys. It's right there in black and white, there is nothing you can do to refute it, and I love watching you squirm trying. If I can deal, all my life, with this bullshit, you can deal with it a little, as well. It's not conscious, there's nothing to feel guilty about...but it is mathematically observable fact.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:44 p.m. CST

    lechter, congrats!

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    but i am the TOKEN BLACK TBER here... thats even gonna be my next handle whenever i can come up wit a post that will get me banned...

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:45 p.m. CST

    Wilhelm scream again

    by insightman

    I should have used tinyurl to prevent this site from inserting a space before the equals sign. http://tinyurl.com/y4xjsg

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:48 p.m. CST

    @Hipshot

    by Cash907

    Doesn't Will Smith end up with a very white Tea Leoni in the end of Bad Boys, a relationship that continues in the sequel? Cool black dude gets pretty white chick... I'm not seeing your problem with that.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:51 p.m. CST

    I will still check it out

    by optimus122

    I dvr'd it, but yea the trailers never excited me all that much. I would love a Alias sequel. Nikita doesn't have more then 1 season in it at best either.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:51 p.m. CST

    Cash907

    by RPLocke

    No, In Independence Day Will was married to Vivica A Fox.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:52 p.m. CST

    cash

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    im gonna support black shows if 1. are on a scale from okish to great 2. appear on network tv 3. not appear on bet, tv1, or whatever upn is now 4. not involvin tyler perry or oprah... so undercovers fit... you may not understand but numbers matter.... so if my viewership helps a show starrin black people get a FULL season ill watch... if it gets a full season then MAYBE network tv wont continue their "racist" ways... im upset that i have to think this way but i do live in the great country of Amerikkka...

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:53 p.m. CST

    Will Smith never gets the white chick

    by terry1978

    Haha, one of my boys said that to me regarding the roles where he has a female co-star like that and it's hilarious how true it is.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:55 p.m. CST

    regardin whites NOT watchin black shows

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i guess that applies to the wire too right? no white person watched that show because they couldnt relate, right? ...er wait, nevermind, its regarded as one of the best shows ever... i hope its not because the black characters are drug dealers, killers, and basically filth... ps: never watched the wire, i find it morally and socially wrong... like BET

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 8:59 p.m. CST

    halle berry gets an award for

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    doggystylin wit billy bob yet will smith cant kiss a white woman.... now, a white man is ok, but definitely not a white woman

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:02 p.m. CST

    Too Cutesy

    by NippleEffect

    the leads are among the most attractive people on TV though<p> Reminds me of Charmed in that they can always pause and have time for banter during tight situations

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:03 p.m. CST

    yourSTEPDADDY

    by Mr. Profit

    You aren't the only one. I am as Brown as Will Smith...

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:06 p.m. CST

    Its a ramped up

    by NippleEffect

    Hart to Hart

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:06 p.m. CST

    @yourstepdaddy

    by lecter1914

    In regards to the wire you essentially have a show about white cops hunting down dangerous black men. Yes, thats a gross generalization of it and downplaying its amazing intricacies, but basically thats the appeal. For some reason it reinforces the belief that we're all like that to some degree. And as far as bad boys, i mentioned earlier he's "safe" for white people in similiar fashion as Denzel Washington. And yes Will Smith always "got" the white girl but did you see them have sex on screen? Think about Traffic. WOuld the sex scene of the lilly white daughter getting banged for heroine be as shocking if it was Brad Pitt and not some nameless black man?

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:10 p.m. CST

    say whaa mr profit?

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    good shit... maybe me, you and lecter can start up a motown band...

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:10 p.m. CST

    @Cash

    by Hipshot

    No, he doesn't boff the chick in Bad Boys. And he isn't with her in the sequel. He gets nothing. Watch the movies again.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:11 p.m. CST

    Furthermore

    by lecter1914

    I would argue that The Wire isn't even a black show. McNulty(in my opinion) was always the central figure and he had a multi-cultural ensemble. The lead was not black.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:12 p.m. CST

    @dukeroberts

    by Hipshot

    You missed the point---note all the successful black comedies. Contrast that with the number of black dramas (essentially zero). Doesnt that tell you something? We can be clowns, but not taken serious dramatically. I don't have "a slight point" I have a MAJOR point, one virtually no white folks notice--because it serves them not to. Our minds work that way. You don't wonder if the deck is stacked as long as you're winning.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:16 p.m. CST

    regarding Will Smith and white women

    by Hipshot

    Notice how often "white women" came up? I never said anything about white women. Will gets no play AT ALL in any of his blockbuster (100 million plus) movies. But you can 100% guarantee people will mishear what I'm saying, and read "white women." Fascinating. This leads me to believe that under all the polite bullshit, this is the actual fear: if a black man has any sex in a movie, eventually he'll be having sex with a white woman, and we can't have THAT. Funny, if it weren't so dysfunctional.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:23 p.m. CST

    blacks and sex in movies

    by lecter1914

    Don't know how we got here but here's my take. I wont say it doesn't happen since I havent seen EVERYTHING, but in the few movies where I have seen it happen it's always been meant to be disturbing or funny i.e. Traffic, Requiem For A Dream, and Stuck come to mind off hand. We never get a good emotional dramatic sex scene like something out of Titanic. I know some people say well if you dont like it change it...theres countless quality black films that go straight to DVD but pandering films taht make white people feel good go to theatre like Precious, Blindside, Dangerous Minds, Freedom Writers etc.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:24 p.m. CST

    Not bad, not bad...

    by ShelbKis

    Not what I'd usually watch but it wasn't too bad. Popcorn TV. I like it - and I'm white.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:24 p.m. CST

    wait hipshot is black?

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    if this, this tb will now be referred to as the Million Man Tb March

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:27 p.m. CST

    The last time I saw a White Man and a Black Woman on TV

    by NippleEffect

    was Soap back in the 70's<p> Oh wait there was that couple on The Jefferson's

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:27 p.m. CST

    since we are on race issues

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i got a problem with Couples Retreat... i mean it was nice of em to have a black friend, but cmon! he goes and gets a hoodrat and is the only one divorced?

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:32 p.m. CST

    the reason i like katy perry

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    she dated travis mccoy (strungout rapper)...that and those titties

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:41 p.m. CST

    NippleEffect

    by RPLocke

    On Flashforward a Black Woman was going to marry an Asian man. And in the new Star Trek movie, Uhura was dating Spock.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:44 p.m. CST

    @rplocke

    by lecter1914

    the thing about both your examples was WOMEN.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:48 p.m. CST

    The President on 24 had a typical family.

    by RPLocke

    Even thought the son was a douche.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Ah the old Black sexual demigod problem,

    by chainsaw_shawn

    Do white people, fear black people on screen sexually? idk. I think it's true white people fear seeing a black man F*** a pretty white girl in the movies. White guys would feel enraged and intimidated, idk if it's an old sterotype or real. lol. Will smith has banged black, spanish. But lets be real theyre are alot of white females that want to screw will smith. Yeah they'll lie but if they are alone with homie, something is going down. lol. they just wont tell you about it. ...THAT's a fact! Now i saw the undercovers show tonight, it was funny. and the chemistry was sorta real but take into effect boris is in real life married, anymore convincing and they might have problems. The only thing for me that was missing was action. Not pacing but action. It's a new type of show so im gonna let it grow on me. Give it a chance. I'm sure if white america can vote obama into office they can keep the show on the air to give it time to grow.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 9:56 p.m. CST

    i can be fair

    by lecter1914

    daniels was banging the lawyer on the wire

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 10:05 p.m. CST

    the wire!!!

    by chainsaw_shawn

    That's right he was smashing it! Oh dont forget the last dance. Sean Patrick Thomas was tearing Julia Styles a new one. It was slow and side nudity. And it was in theaters top that! lol.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 10:15 p.m. CST

    julia stiles dont count

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    were talkin about white women! not young white boys with long hair...

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 10:18 p.m. CST

    regardin zoe saldana

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    ive never seen her kiss a minority... but seen her get gangbanged by some white guys in haven...

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 10:21 p.m. CST

    fictional black penis in fictional white vag

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    eddie griffin with denise richards in undercover brother. denzel in jungle fever. save the last dance (as mentioned)... i think its quite sad that its hard to think of 5 examples... i can think of more hermaphrodites than this

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 10:31 p.m. CST

    LOL

    by chainsaw_shawn

    juila styles is a little boy? wow, someone drank haterade this morning. and it wasnt denzel in jungle fever it was wesley snipes and anabella sciorra. But your right there's only like a good five times i can remember black dudes banging white chicks on screen?! anymotr out there? Didnt james earl jones bang white girls in the great white hope??? Based off of boxer jack johnson?

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 10:39 p.m. CST

    Wait one more

    by chainsaw_shawn

    Jamie foxx was screwing jessica biel in valentines day, however obscure you want it happened. lol.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 10:41 p.m. CST

    Remember--

    by Hipshot

    I'm not saying change anything. I'm saying: notice that racism affects purchasing patterns. And you'd better believe it also affects hiring, arrest, bank loans, and a thousand other things. There is is, in black and white. You enjoy the advantage, white guys. But I'll be damned if I'll let you pretend you don't have it. "All that is necessary for bigotry to triumph is for people of good will to believe we're post-racial." ## And note how fast you guys started talking about black men and white women. WOW you're scared.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 10:42 p.m. CST

    oh well

    by JaredP

    even jj isnt perfect you cant expect him to come up with a brilliant show all the time every tv writer is bound to have one misfire or another maybe hes running out of ideas he shouldve made it more like the avengers in stead of thin man movies

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 10:42 p.m. CST

    Everyone's gay on TV anyway

    by RPLocke

    They're just playing straight.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 10:44 p.m. CST

    idris elba and ali larter in obsessed

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    such a shitty movie... even for black movie standards (now that MAY be racist)

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 11:05 p.m. CST

    Why the "disappointment"? It's JJ.

    by kabong

    Too much glib chit-chat is the JJ signature. <p> That's how JJ and his coterie get the greenlights.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 11:06 p.m. CST

    So fucking awful. Just terrible.

    by Saen

    Gonna go watch the Alias and Chuck pilot and remember that a spy show can be good.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 11:20 p.m. CST

    Black Male White Female

    by somethingeasytoremember

    A dude who worked at BET told me that Denzel Washington wouldn't kiss a white woman on-screen. Not because he was against it personally, but because the black women audience demographic wouldn't go see the movie if he was kissing/sleeping with a white woman.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 11:22 p.m. CST

    Wonderful

    by Hipshot

    Had a great time. Whites will rate it worse than it is. Blacks will rate it better than it is. If you want to know the truth, split the difference.

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 11:35 p.m. CST

    I'll tune in again

    by NippleEffect

    hope next time I buy that they're really in peril

  • Sept. 22, 2010, 11:36 p.m. CST

    Oh and that

    by NippleEffect

    they really tone down the asskissing by that one guy

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:07 a.m. CST

    This Show Is Soft

    by Media Messiah

    It was missing something? It just felt uninvolving.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:18 a.m. CST

    ABC Refuses To Have Black Men On Dating Shows

    by Media Messiah

    Talk about racist--and of the females they have allowed on their dating reality shows, very few have been black females. No Black "Bachelor", "Bacherolrette", etc. The networks, especially ABC/Disney, are being racist in everyone's face, and seemingly they don't care who knows it? This is as bad as Hitler's pre-Holocaust days, when he made a point of letting his views be known, that he felt that Jews and their lives, and or, opinions, were not to be valued on the same level as non-Jewish Whites. BTW, Walt Disney was accused of being a Nazi supporter, so it all makes perfect sense that ABC/Disney doesn't like Black people, apparently--and the reason why they certainly don't like White/Black interracial relationships? Can't teach our children to love an individual for the quality of who they are, not their color!!!

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:21 a.m. CST

    PS: I Think The Show Would Have Played Better As...

    by Media Messiah

    ...a movie, if they had centered more on the restaurant aspects--it could have been a cute romantic film. Other than that, the concept seems one note, and not the stuff of an ongoing series.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:28 a.m. CST

    Media Messiah

    by Hipshot

    Open your eyes a bit wider. It isn't the networks. It isn't "America". It is the human tendency for tribalism. I've worked in and around Hollywood for forty years, and Hollywood executives are FAR more "liberal" and open-minded than the average American males (and females) of their education and social class. But they know...KNOW that if they did that, if they put black people in those positions, they'd run into major problems--mountains of hate mail, and declining ratings. They are not racist. We, as a species, are. Believe it. Human beings are wonderful creatures, but we're also driven by raw, unreasoning, tribal fear. And we lie to ourselves about it. Go and look at the reviews of Undercovers in any blog. Look at the comments. At least 10% of them are straight-up racist. Openly hateful. This is what we're dealing with.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:30 a.m. CST

    Tuned out 30 minutes in. It'll be cancelled.

    by DrPain

    Nice production value. Yeah, that's all I got.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:38 a.m. CST

    Somethingeasytoremember

    by Hipshot

    Denzel told the truth once: that white audiences didnt want to see him with a white woman. People accused him of racism. So now he lies. I've spoken with a half-dozen major black actors about this, and they all say the same thing: the studios are terrified of audience reaction, and have a long,long list of movies that have bombed if black men had any sex at all. It's all about money, friend. And blacks are outnumbered by whites eight to one. If they want the blockbuster movie, they have to give the audience what past track records suggest they want. Note: when was the last time you saw "sex symbol" Denzel in any love scene at all? It isn't about black/white. Black men have to keep it zipped, or white males stay away in droves. A provable statistical fact.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:46 a.m. CST

    So pist at this show. Better be cancelled.

    by Saen

    I am going to quit watching any NBC show with Ads, if they cancel Chuck and give Undercovers a 2nd season. It had no sense of suspense, of danger, of mystery like Alias. And it doesnt have the comedy, the heart, and the likability of Chuck.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:52 a.m. CST

    Fuckin' Hearst!

    by Al Swearengen

    I knew that cocksuckin' viper would appear sooner or fuckin' later.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:37 a.m. CST

    Hipshot: Ultimately...

    by Media Messiah

    ...we are the human tribe. Yes, America is screwed-up, you are right, but we have to look higher--and try to make a higher purpose for ourselves. We are still stuck on color? How can we be worthy of God, if He/She exists, or perhaps, higher alien life, if we are still judging ourselves over color? Surely, if they are out there, and worth our contacting, they can't think that we are of any consequence, when we are still at each other's throats. We will never evolve to something better, and are sure to wipe ourselves out, collectively, if we don't find a higher love in ourselves and others. Even if the networks have to take a financial hit, or movies, if they, Hollywood, do it enough, show interracial realities, it will serve to change many minds--not all, certainly, but many. If not, things will only remain the same, until we destroy ourselves, or until, an asteroid, or some planet tilt destroys us. My point is that life can be far better for us all, should we dare open-up our eyes and ears.<BR><BR>PS: Yes, I know of the tremendous racism that is reflected on the net. It is shocking, but if we don't fight it by showing things as they are, and or, should be, then evil and ignorance will continue to win-out...unchecked, and unchallenged. Heroes stand their ground, they don't cower. Where there is light, darkness moves away.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:33 a.m. CST

    So Jar Jar Abrams is tryingto copy CHUCK?

    by AsimovLives

    Good luck with that, four-eyes!

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 4:30 a.m. CST

    another sign that I'm too damned old

    by HongKongCavalier

    the first thing that came to mind when I saw the ads wasn't "Mr & Mrs Smith" but "Hart to Hart"<p></p> the second thing that came to mind is the timing of the last piece of text ... the word "colorful" comes on screen at the same time as the female lead.<p></p> not biggie, just resulted in a fleeting "wtf" moment for me

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 5:17 a.m. CST

    Zoe and Wash on Firefly/Serenity.

    by Dingbatty

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 6:04 a.m. CST

    "The Wire was white cops hunting black criminals"

    by theGoldbergV

    whuh? In season 1 PERHAPS. Even then you have Sydner, Daniels, Greggs, Carver and Burrell who are all black cops. In season 2 the "criminals" are the white working class dock workers. Honestly that comment sounds like something said by someone whose knowledge of The Wire stems entirely from TV spots and internet forums. <P><P>Of course the fact the cast is 60-70% black might have something to do with with how it never received a single Emmy nomination. I love Mad Men, but the fact it has an all-white cast certainly seems to make it more appealing to a mainstream audience.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:16 a.m. CST

    lecter1914 where are you getting your bullshit from?

    by bychance

    Black people don't even want to see black people on TV? Really? Did I really just read that? And what shows where the darker skinned people are typically mean to be unlikeable? Examples? That is completely ridiculous.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:23 a.m. CST

    I'm Tired Of Married Spies TV Series And Movies

    by Media Messiah

    I think this would have worked better without the marriage bit. It is now a tired cliche, one that was fresh when True Lies introduced it, and now every spy movie and show, ever since, just about, always has to have either a spying couple, or a spying family??? Enough already!!! Still, I think this would have worked better as a movie starring Will and Jada Smith--and now that I think about it, actually, that is where the idea came from!!! They were originally suppose to play Mr. and Mrs. Smith...but backed out, and Brad Pitt and Angie did the movie instead.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:24 a.m. CST

    the Get Smart pilot was better

    by paulloch

    it would have been better if they were out of shape during the chase and fight sequences and had to struggle, or rusty in their field spy skills. Like Marshall in that episode of Alias. The rampant racism in the blogs, not just here but all over the net astounds me. It can be about skiing kittens on youtube and anti-black anti-obama stuff pops in. This wasn't so just three years ago. I miss the 70's, we were more enlightened, from the civil rights movement. Sanford and Son, Good Times, Jeffersons, Roots, White Shadow, were all given a chance, something TV today won't touch.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:27 a.m. CST

    NippleEffect

    by bychance

    It hasn't been THAT long. 'Boy Meets World' was in the 90s, and Shawn Hunter has a steady black girlfriend.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:32 a.m. CST

    regarding Zoe Saldana

    by bychance

    The last time she had a Black love interest (on the top of my head) was in Drumline with Nick Cannon. That was about 9 years ago.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:44 a.m. CST

    Cash907: Will Smith Never Touched Her

    by Media Messiah

    They just played tiddly winks, and the same with Charlize Theron in Hancock. "Oh, we were married...but cannot touch each other, because of a curse" How convenient? As a result, they barely touched in the movie, and certainly not for romance. You see they re-wrote the script to allow her to be in the film. The original script featured a lonely house wife, think Bridges of Madison County, who while living in the country, her husband not around, is shocked when a super hero falls from the sky...and smashes into her farm. The hero is down on himself, and his efforts, in trying to save the world from itself, an effort, that can sometimes seem overwhelming. He and the housewife eventually fall in love and have an affair, and she helps him to see the world differently, and find the good again, in the world. Well, all that was thrown-out of the film, and the bit about Will not being able to touch his agent's wife (Charlize) who happens to be his (Smith's) Goddess ex-wife, because, in reality, Smith was afraid to touch a White woman on screen--as well as the filmmakers, for their own selfish reasons, being afraid to show it, even though strong rumor has it that Charlize has black blood in her.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:48 a.m. CST

    Cash907: Typo Fix

    by Media Messiah

    Well, all that was thrown-out of the film, and the bit about Will not being able to touch his agent's wife (Charlize) who happens to be his (Smith's) Goddess ex-wife was put in the movie in its place, because, in reality, Smith was afraid to touch a White woman on screen--as well as the filmmakers, for their own selfish reasons, being afraid to show it, even though strong rumor has it that Charlize has black blood in her.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 8:02 a.m. CST

    Bychance: Hollywood Doesn't Care About Black Girlfriends

    by Media Messiah

    Racists consider it bestiality, if a White man sleeps with a Black woman, I am quoting the Klan...not being a jackass in say that. I've heard Klan members say that before on shows like Howard Stern. That is their view, not mine, so they look at it as a form of masturbation, also their words--but if a White woman sleeps with a Black man, all hell breaks loose; the reason why one, the fore, is considered okay, and the other, the latter, isn't. They are being hypocrites, of course, but the issue is over Black men being perceived as threats...by, largely, White males--not all certainly, but many...in power, and again, the reason why you don't see many Black males with White women onscreen--where as, you tend to see many Black women with White men onscreen, on and off; there is a double standard. Also typically in this society of ours, Black men are the last to get hired, and the first to get fired--all, just another sign of the ongoing racism in America, and other places in the world.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 8:16 a.m. CST

    Re: BUT DOES GREG GRUNBERG POP UP?!?!

    by The McPoyle Clan

    Not yet, but I would never count him out. LOL<p><p>The show? Nothing really compelling about it, no matter the ethnic origins of the cast. Almost didn't recognize Rick Simon with his wispy 'stache.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 8:37 a.m. CST

    Just reading my comment above about The Wire

    by theGoldbergV

    and I missed out BUNK!!! Unbelievable. I felt the urge to rectify such a unforgivable oversight

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 8:47 a.m. CST

    Half A Century of TV Brainwashing Will Do This;

    by tronbarn

    When you think about it, since the beginning of the tv age - and not including sports - television has been 98% white. Sure, there have been black shows and such, but very few compared to what is considered the 'norm'. I am black, but I gotta think that tv being mostly white from childhood on has an unconscious 'negative' effect on white viewers. And that is if they are used to seeing themselves reflected in almost 100% of what they watch and DON'T WATCH - even flipping channels all you see is white faces - then when you put a black face or a majority black cast show on it takes them out of their comfort zone. So, what's the incentive to watch a majority black cast show after you've seen only white all of your life and have formed the unconscious opinion that that is the 'norm'. What, curiosity? Out of pity? Now grant it there are a few whites who don't give a shit either way, but the majority are unconscious about it and won't watch anything different simply because of that reason whether the show is good, 'nonthreatening' or otherwise.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:02 a.m. CST

    Two Things

    by lecter1914

    @GoldbergTV: I watched every episode of the Wire(Season 4 was my favorite) and you cant tap dance around the point that the show was basically about cops catching BLACK criminals. Sorry, the dock workesr don't count because they, for the most part didnt want to be committing the crimes they committed and when season 2 was over it went right back to being the show about locking up black people. Sorry, but as a black man that's how the show struck me. Now for you ByChance, Martin, Pam was the bitchy one who was also darker, Gina, the lightskinned one with long hair, the love interest and reasonable one. Living Single, All of the women were light skinned and meant to be likeable but there was the dark one with the dreadlocks whose name escapes me now who was the bitchy attorney who was always mad and complaining. Cosby Show, Lisa Bonets character, light skinned, long hair, sexy and cool..vs the sister played by Tempest Bledsoe whow as always complaining and whining and meant to be unlikeable. Girlfriends, the lightskinned long haired one who also had no job was the sex symbol tha twas easy to like while the dark one(who was also kicked of fthe show) was backstabbing, prudish, and unlikeable. I can continue if you would like.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:08 a.m. CST

    "when was the last time you saw "sex symbol" Denzel in any love

    by buggerbugger

    1995, where he did some seriously sweaty fucking in 'Devil in a Blue Dress'.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:10 a.m. CST

    Undercovers; Not a 'Black' Show

    by tronbarn

    Most of the commenters get it here but it's my hope that the show is being judged on it's writing, the performance of it's leads and overall execution of the production. Fuck ANYBODY who says this is a black show and therefore it's not good. First, Undercovers could have had white leads of course, but they could have been asian, latino, middle eastern, etc. But the fact the leads are black with a high profile producer and network, it's going to be under double scrutiny. Honestly, I thought last nights episode was full of cliches and such, but I did find the leads and style appealing. I will give it a few more episodes. I was big fan of Alias and this definitely doesn't compare to that season's pilot, but I saw more pros and cons with the show last night that make me want to come back. But the bottom line here is that the characters never once reference their skin color, nor are they living lives that are typical of so called black shows aimed squarely at black viewers. They own an upscale catering/bakery business, not a chicken wing and soul food joint. They live in the suburbs, not - dare I say - 'The Hood'. There's not one crack head or jive shucking, foul mouthed mammy coming out to bust a cap in your ass! None of this is to be found; and therefore it's not a 'black' show. But you will find all of this stuff on the most popular black producers television shows for sure. I need not mention names ... Tyler *cough* *cough* Perry. Anyway, this show simply portrays two characters that just happen to be black that happen to be spies that happen to be married. You wouldn't have to change a word of dialogue if they were white. It's always hard to tell when a show is being trashed with major black casts if it's legitimate or the tired fall back of 'racism' or because it's a 'black show'. I am black and I like entertainment for BLACK PEOPLE which just so happens is also entertainment for everyone. But soon as you start including all the bullshit stereotypes (some of them well earned I assure you) into the shows then it will alienate any other ethnic group. My family used to sit down and watch the Brady Bunch. Why? BECAUSE IT WAS GOOD! However, if Mike Brady were an irishman or jewish and every show was full of ethnic references and rituals of those cultures (negative or positive), then perhaps we would have just stuck with Sanford and Son. Hence, this is why the Fresh Prince and Cosby worked with white people, because for the most part the black people in those shows were interchangeable with whites and therefore were more inviting.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:18 a.m. CST

    HE GOT GAME;

    by tronbarn

    Let's not forget Denzel got it on with Milla Javovich in Spike Lee's 1998 He Got Game. But the subtle message here is that she was a hooker and that's the only white woman good enough for the black man. Damn, even got that one past Spike.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Oh the just shut the fuck up, lecter.

    by HoboCode

    You sound like a giant asshole right now. News flash: Blacks commit crimes in predominantly Black inner cities. So yeah, a cop show about Baltimore is going to have some Black criminals in it. At least they were complex portrayals. Hell I never rooted for criminals on a show more than in The Wire. The Black criminals on the show were smarter and more honorable than ANY of the lazy, drunk, and utterly corrupt white cops on the show. How's that for unfair portrayal? Do you hear me bitching about it? No. Because its sadly a reality.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:26 a.m. CST

    Hobocode

    by lecter1914

    You sound like someone who doesnt read. I didn't say the wire was unrealistic or unreal. Its one of my favorite shows of all time. I was, as in relation to the subject of black shows with mass appeal, explaining that in my opinion the reason the show worked so well was because white people find it wasy to watch a show about bad black people. You can call me an asshole but the record speaks for itself white people like going to see films where the black people are portrayed as the bottom of the barrel. Thats why Precious Blind Side, Boyz In The Hood etc...get such great reviews from white critics. They say things like "The show is so Real" and blah blah blah because they want to believe that all black people really are that downtrodden or honorable criminals. I wont call is racism, i just call is subconsious..I dont know what to call it actually.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:35 a.m. CST

    lecter

    by HoboCode

    "the reason the show worked so well was because white people find it was easy to watch a show about bad black people."<p> This is by far one of the most ignorant and offensive comments in AICN history. And that is saying a lot. I realize you probably just finished a college course on this matter and think you are now some expert on black portrayals in the media, but you are not only completely wrong in this case, but your insinuation that the show was popular becasue white people enjoy watching bad black people get caught is itself prejudice.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:43 a.m. CST

    Hobocode

    by lecter1914

    Since I am a black man who is pursuing a career in film and have studied the subject for quite sometime I don't consider my comments ignorant, I call them informed. You don't have to agree with me, that's fine. But I would like for my statements to be disproven. Ive been completely fair in this discussion, even going so far as to add a counterfact to a point that I was making.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:56 a.m. CST

    what a great talkback

    by xphyle

    usually this type of subject matter on this site deteriorates quickly...very well thought out arguments and counterpoints..for the record i am black and see everyone point....there was a nice hospital show on cbs that had an all black cast that lasted MAYBE half a season. a lot of the same themes that are in abc doctor show

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Sorry Lecter

    by theGoldbergV

    but I just don't agree with your assessment of The Wire. If you're arguing a position of what the typical American viewer might think, then fair enough. But I there are many, many black cops on the Wire as I wrote above (Lester Freamon, forgot him) and although yes, most of the criminals were black, the show just depicted Baltimore's demographics, no agenda on the part of the programme makers IMO

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10 a.m. CST

    Your comments have been disproven.

    by HoboCode

    You said the show was simply about cops catching black criminals, to which someone pointed out that not only was there a season dedicated to white criminals, which you conveninently discounted for a ridiculous reason that could be attributed to numerous black criminals on the show as well), but the majority of the whites on the Wire were also criminals in the form of corrupt cops and politicians.<p> Then you made a prejudice blanket statement that white people "like" to watch movies and tv in which black people are the "bottom of the barrel," which cannot be disproven because it's simply an uninformed and paranoid opinion not based on any evidence whatsoever.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Lecter does have a point

    by Samuel Fulmer

    But the same can go for Italian americans too. How many positive portrayals of them have you seen in film and television. They're usually shown as foul mouthed criminal wife beaters. But that doesn't mean that the films and tv that show this are bad, it's just that's the only stuff that seems to get critical acclaim. It would be as if the majority of film and television shows portrayed gay people like Friedkin did in Cruising.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:06 a.m. CST

    But on the otherhand

    by Samuel Fulmer

    How many shows or films that get critical acclaim deal with people that aren't psychologically messed up or cirminals. Very few. I think the same goes for viewiership/ticket sales too. Maybe it's the gawking at a car wreck mentality of society.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:07 a.m. CST

    Goldberg and Hobo

    by lecter1914

    I never said it was an agenda on the part of the program makers. My point is that is why I personally believe the show was more accessible to mainstream(white) audiences because they can readily and easily accept that portrayal of the poor black community. And at Hobo, explain season one, the one that got everyone hooked? It was primarily about cops(and McNulty at the time was the center piece, sorry) trying to arrest drug dealing and murdering black people. We can go back and forth on it but my personal opinion is that that is why the show attrated such a mainstream audience. Someone earlier mentioned NY undercover with Malik Yoba and the latino guy from michael jackson videos. Similiar theme to the Wire...no one cared or really watched. Do the same thing, have a white cop as the lead, and suddenly the show is SO REAL and Groundbreaking (it wasn't, but it was awesome). You don't have to believe me, and I could very well be wrong, but thats my take on it.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:13 a.m. CST

    No one has mentioned Undercovers worst part

    by Samuel Fulmer

    The digital video look of the show! It looked like some crap a little snot would shoot for Youtube. It was cheap and very bargain basement looking.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:17 a.m. CST

    @samuelfulmer

    by lecter1914

    I think I only noticed that during the action sequences. Whenever there was an explosion it looked horrifically cheap for primetime and that rooftop fight looked a bit shoddy to me as well(and Boris Kudjo smiling while nearly falling off the roof seemed a bit off).

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:27 a.m. CST

    Yeah it was really apparant in the action

    by Samuel Fulmer

    scenes, which doesn't bode well since it's an action show. The cheap digital action look was like everything that was bad about the camera in Michael Mann's last couple of films.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:30 a.m. CST

    Black criminals are funny

    by SithMenace

    "Hey, I gots to know". Lol.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:38 a.m. CST

    So what if black cops bust black criminals?

    by SithMenace

    Does that make the honkys love them more?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:39 a.m. CST

    SithMenace

    by lecter1914

    No, the mainstream simply wont watch it i.e. NY Undercover.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:45 a.m. CST

    So lecter

    by SithMenace

    Does your theory apply to just cop shows, or all shows in general with black leads?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:50 a.m. CST

    Oh c'mon, people are using the race card now??

    by AsimovLives

    So it's the race of the actors and the characters they play that makes a TV show less seen? How about you people put the real blame where it lies, the incompetence of the show creators?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:51 a.m. CST

    Scratchmonkey

    by Hipshot

    I hope Denzel got laid more recently than 1995. But if so, that was FIFTEEN YEARS ago. Doesn't that set off the tiniest alarm bell?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:55 a.m. CST

    AsimovLives is Rick Berman

    by SithMenace

    I just found that out.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:56 a.m. CST

    Media Messiah--

    by Hipshot

    You think the problem is "America"? Do you think human beings somewhere else are better? I certainly do not. The problem is humanity--we are motivated largely by love and fear, and fear is more acute.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 10:59 a.m. CST

    Why weren't there black people in Leave It To Beaver

    by SithMenace

    Dammit.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:01 a.m. CST

    @sithmenace

    by lecter1914

    All shows lol. I think white people have a subconscious aversion or apathy to shows with majority black leads in general. You have fw exceptions like The Wire(which I already explained why I believe mainstream america watched that) and The Cosby's and WIll Smith projects. It's not a judgement because we all do it. Its a much larger issue than can be discussed in a talkback. For the record....I didnt like the UnderCovers pilot either. Boris was miscast.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:01 a.m. CST

    Wally

    by SithMenace

    Could've been black. But no, they cast a white brother for the Beaver.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:02 a.m. CST

    And Media Messiah--

    by Hipshot

    I may be missing something. What other television show has ever had married spies? If you don't empathize and "feel it" for the lead characters, it all feels...yawn. But I've NEVER seen people who look like me in such situations--it was as unique as if they were Martians. So J.J. Abrams is in an impossible situation. A friend saw the original script (race neutral) and said it was very good, but felt as if the final product was a bit blanded down. Why? Because the casting created Suspension of Disbelief issues: note the number of times on this website someone has said they don't believe black spies. If you look at comments on other blogs, at least 1/10th of them directly criticized the racial casting. So he can't push the fantasy without breaking rapport. And he can't be too bland without breaking the rapport. Almost NO ONE has managed to solve the puzzle J.J. is trying to solve, because you guys refuse to believe there is a problem at all. That willful obliviousness has caused more human misery than you can possibly imagine.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:02 a.m. CST

    lecter1914

    by AsimovLives

    Check out british TV shows, you will see lots of mixed couples in it, including many presentations of couples wheree the husband is black and the wife is white. Hell, it was even presented in the romantic comedy movie LOVE ACTUALLY. Hell, TOP GEAR, which is a car show, in one of the challenges presented to the presenters where they had to drive the groom and bride to the church, the couple was a black guy and a very white WASP young woman.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:03 a.m. CST

    SithMenace

    by AsimovLives

    Who the hell is Rick Berman?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:09 a.m. CST

    @asimovlives

    by lecter1914

    You just set it yourself, british shows lol. You won't see that over here very often. Even in Sex and The City is was controversial. Gay couples seem to be ale to get away with it much easier though which is odd. Hmmmm, deep subject.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:11 a.m. CST

    I can see your point Lecter

    by SithMenace

    But I don't think the white people that avoid those shows are racist, I think it's simply a lack of common interest, it's unrelatable. I can't watch House Of Pain or any of Tyler Perry's other projects, because I can't relate to most of it. Do I hate him or the actors? No, in fact I have alot of respect for Tyler Perry and what he's been able to do for himself, but when it comes to his shows, I simply just don't think they're that funny. <p>I didn't even watch Undercovers, for two reasons. One is that I have a limited amount of time for tv every week, which leads me to two, I'm completely uninterested in husband and wife spies. Of any race. <p>Like I said, I see your point, but I think it comes down to cultural differences more than closeted or subconscious racism. Of course with Undercovers, I don't think it's any of that, I think it just looked like a lousy show.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:13 a.m. CST

    lecter, where are you generally located?

    by SithMenace

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:14 a.m. CST

    Yeah right Asimov, play it off like you're not him

    by SithMenace

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:18 a.m. CST

    @sith

    by lecter1914

    Im from the south, but have been on the east coast for the past 5 years. and I'm really tryin gnot to use the word racist as I really don't believe that is what it is. In fact...I agree with what you said. Its lack of relatbility which would obviously make the show less enjoyable for the viewer. That's what makes it hard when critics such as Herc(no offense Herc...I agree with you) use words such as bland and unengaging...you have to ask if its the quality of the writing or an automatic emotional disconnect because of the race of the characters.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:22 a.m. CST

    The Wire

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Wow, one of the most sophisticated shows with probably the most racially diverse cast that I've ever seen and people are throwing down that it was about "bad" black people getting locked up? Fucking insane.<p>I didn't watch Undercovers.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:22 a.m. CST

    SithMenace

    by Hipshot

    You of course have the right to make decisions about your time in any way you feel appropriate. But this is what will happen, and what has always happened: white viewers will "just happen" not to be as interested in dramatic shows with black leads. It will never have anything to do with race. But the effect will be totally predictable, based upon...race. This same effect bends statistics on crime, loans, employment, and education. There is just...I don't know...I'm not interested, I'm not comfortable, I'm too busy, he just doesn't fit in...it is these small aversion/disinterest patterns I'm talking about, multiplied by an 8:1 numerical advantage and a savage power advantage, multiplied across four centuries. I don't ask you to change a damned thing about your behavior, only to be aware the next time you wonder why black people have had "a hard time catching up."

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:29 a.m. CST

    @hipshot

    by lecter1914

    That really makes me laugh with the aversion/disinterest. As in a story I relayed yesterday about a lot of people I know at work who love the real housewives nonsense except for the one that has the predominantly black lineup. I heard the "oh, i always miss that one" or "I'm just to busy on that night"...and when I asked about Under Covers one girl had the nerve to say "I'm not really into spy shows" but still recalls Alias episodes. HA! And Thunderbolt, you can call it insane, but it is what it is.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:39 a.m. CST

    Hipshot

    by SithMenace

    I understand your point, I really do, but there's alot of shows with white people as the leads that I'm completely disinterested in as well. I watched the Cosby show as a kid, listen to some rap, alot of blues and some oldies (including alot of Motown), watch movies with black leads, watch black comedians and have studied black history. I'm not trying to say I'm some kind of white MLK because I sample some of the culture, but what I'm saying is, if it's quality, I couldn't care less. <p>Maybe the problem is that there just aren't that many quality shows featuring black actors as leads. Hell, there aren't many quality shows with white actors as leads, and the ratio probably just evens out.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:40 a.m. CST

    and the real tragedy is

    by lecter1914

    if a show with a majority white cast or white lead flops it will quickly be replaced with another show with more white leads. If a show with black leads or majority black casts flops...its to much of a risk to create another one anytime soon. I'm a black horror writer. If a black horror film hits theatres and does poorly......guarantee you its going to be YEARS before you see another one hit theatres. That's really why i'm disgruntled with Under Covers. I don't blame anyone for not watching another second of the show...but damnit we won't get a second chance for years if this flops.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Lecter, you're generalizing

    by SithMenace

    You can't judge all white people by what you overhear from a select few.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:56 a.m. CST

    wtfuckers

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i hate seein this "i cant relate so i dont watch, not because theyre black but because i cant relate". so the white tbers who say this can relate to either being stuck on a magical island with smoke monsters? do the white tbers work in advertising in the 50s? do the white tbers here work at a school after bein a famous celebrity jock? just be honest, you dont watch because whatever show is "a black show". i CANNOT relate to sellin crystal method in arizona, but breakin bad is a great show. and theres no black people on it. i watch shows that im entertained by, not how its relatable to me.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:57 a.m. CST

    lol lecter

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    you didnt work on that snoop dog horror movie did you?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:01 p.m. CST

    @stepdaddy

    by lecter1914

    Which one? Bones or Hood of Horror? In any case, I worked on neither lol.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:01 p.m. CST

    ex of racism

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    years ago when there was 2 BLACK SHOWS ON NETWORK TV (Bernie Mac show on fox, and the fantastic My wife and kids on abc)... when shit got good ratings, guess which 2 shows ended up playin on THE SAME NIGHT AT THE SAME TIME... if you dont think that is wrong, imagine if they put 2 "good" scifi shows on a friday night at the same time

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:03 p.m. CST

    I dont relate to Vampires...

    by Mr. Profit

    But I watch True Blood. If I watched shows that mirrored my life I'd be fucked because there are no half black half latino characters on TV. <p>Also ABC does more for diversity casting than most networks. Grey's Anatomy has black featured actors in interracial relationships. Private Practice has Taye Diggs/Kate Walsh. Ugly Betty had a Latina and White Guy. Desperate Housewives now has Vanessa Williams and already had Eva Longoria. Modern Family has Columbians. Lost had everyone. So just because their Bachelor and Bachelorette shows are solely white, that's because those shows are popular with white women. A lot of black women don't care for that show.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:04 p.m. CST

    I'm out, I have things to do

    by SithMenace

    It's an interesting subject, but I think whites get unfairly stereotyped in this situation. Saying the Cosby show doesn't count is distorting the facts to support the argument. Yes, they were a well to do black family, but it was a quality show with black leads. If your argument had any weight to it, how do you explain the mainstream success of shows like Sanford and Son, Good Times and Fat Albert. In the 70's no less? Or in the 90's, Spike Lee's films, Pulp Fiction, Jackie Brown, Friday or Boyz n the Hood? All enjoyed mainstream success, and are some of my all time favs, and none showed black people living the "Cosby life". It's because they were quality films, so race doesn't matter. <p>I think you should research the ratio of white to black leads on network tv, and then look at the ratio of successful white to black leads on tv, then look at the ratio of whites to blacks in America. It seems to me that it pretty much evens out.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:08 p.m. CST

    And The CW...

    by Mr. Profit

    Gets made fun of for being the "Rich White Girls With Problems" channel, but 90210 has a black lead actor who has only seriously dated white girls. One white character dated a latino. And anothee is dating a persian. <p>In Hellcats, the lead has sexual tension with the black guy and she's white. They are setting them up for a romance. The only show that doesn't show diversity is Gossip Girl. That's why I miss Veronica Mars...

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Sith Menace--

    by Hipshot

    I have no idea what you just said. If the ratio of white to black leads on television dramas were the same as that in America in general, the percentage would be about 12%, or about 1 in eight. Instead, out of the HUNDREDS of successful dramas on network television, about two of them have had black leads, or about .5%. Your argument is totally invalid. ## As for Cosby--note that no matter how many times I say "Drama," white people think "comedy." There is a huge disconnect going on here--you seem far too smart to make such a basic error. The only conclusion I can come to is that there are cultural blind spots and forbidden zones so deep people can't even really think about them.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:11 p.m. CST

    @sith

    by lecter1914

    I've covered this in multiple post but I'll put it all in one for your examples. Sanford and Son, Good Times, Fat Albert(I stated the mainstream likes to see blacks at the bottom of the barrel). Spike Lee...name me a blockbuster Spike lee film with all black leads? Pulp Fiction, did not have a majority black cast or black lead(that was travoltas project) jackie Brown(Tarantino film and not predominatnly black) Friday became a cult fave after theatres, how many people watched the sequels? Boyz in the Hood(Refer to Sanford and Son).

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:12 p.m. CST

    Husband and wife spies really is a moronic concept.

    by HoboCode

    True Lies was awesome when it first came out because it was new, but I have zero desire to watch it for any other reason except the comedic value at this point. Mr. and Mrs. Smith? Fucking garbage. I taped this show and plan on seeing what JJ has created but I suspect it won't hold my interest, just like the inevitable True Lies tv show won't interest me.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:12 p.m. CST

    yourSTEPDADDY

    by SithMenace

    So you're saying the only difference between Lost and Tyler Perry's House Of Pain is that there were white leads vs. black leads? I can't relate to the humor in those shows, maybe it's because they're just not funny, but I don't feel at all that it makes me a racist. How many white and black people do you know watch subtitled Hispanic soaps on Telemundo? I can't name one. Know why? Cultural differences. Cultural differences are great, racism is not. There are alot of people out there that need to learn the difference.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:12 p.m. CST

    For once I agree with RPLocke *Gasps*

    by Stalkeye

    The advertising for this series sucked. And what's with the stupid spainardesque music; "whalayelllooww." WTF is that shit? I watched the first 15 minutes and that was all I could stand.Nice attempt to show a positive side of Black Couples,(i.e. no BS stereotypes) but the series looks underwhelming to say in the least.Another victory for Asimov, I guess.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:13 p.m. CST

    As for Jackie Brown, etc...

    by Hipshot

    My argument is unassailable, on the grounds of statistics that anyone can check for themselves. 1) virtually no successful dramas with non-white leads. In movies, I say: look at sex in movies. Non-white males don't have it in movies that earn over 100 million domestic (read: movies that white people go see in numbers). On the other hand, more than 20% of 100 mil+ movies DO have sex, and about 15% percent of 100 Mil+ films star non-whites. If you aren't curious about this non-overlapping Vin diagram, there is only one reason: the situation works to your advantage. On an unconscious level, you might just like it just fine. It SERVES you not to notice. You have taken the blue pill, and believe that, if there haven't been successful black dramas, why, it must be because they were all lousy (I'd love to hear you describe the mechanism for THAT!) It certainly couldn't be that human beings have an aversion to the "other", something that has been proven in countless psychological studies. Naw. Couldn't be. Wake up.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:14 p.m. CST

    mr profit

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i do miss Miss Annoyin Mars but i MISS ANGEL/BUFFY! they had some interracial stuff goin (moreso Angel... i mean Cordie had a black baby lol). but it was funny, i never found fred attractive until she started gettin some black lovin... ive loved her ever since

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:14 p.m. CST

    In the 90's things got fucked...

    by Mr. Profit

    Martin was great. Living Single was Friends before Friends came out. But then comedies featuring Blacks became so lowbrow. Bernie Mac, Girlfriends, The Game and Chris are the exceptions to this. But comedies got too stupid and catering to the lowest stereotypical common denominator that it brought us to the position we are in now. Where two black actors on a network show is groundbreaking. Its a shame we regressed so much. But I think that Blacks in Hollywood should start making more pilots with black leads and focus heavily on quality. Quality is what keeps a show going. But we got people like Spike Lee bitching about Perry, but his ass isn't writing TV shows and pitching them. He's just bitching on the sidelines. Do something.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:16 p.m. CST

    one show i really did relate to

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    was DAWSONS fuckin CREEK... as a hopeless romantic, aspiring director, it gets no better than that... "i dont wanna wait... for a black dawsons creek"

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:16 p.m. CST

    Fareal

    by Hipshot

    The Cosby Show "wasn't really black"? I beg to differ. I know plenty of professional black families. If you do not, I feel sorry for you. But do you realize how stereotypical your comment is? There is not, and has never been, a television show or movie that represented all Americans of any group whatsoever. Do you think "Good Times" represented all black Americans? "Sanford and Son"? What exactly is a "real black" to you? Inquiring minds want to know.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:18 p.m. CST

    bychance

    by NippleEffect

    two shows I've never watched<p> My point was it's far more common to see a black man with a white woman in media<p> For some reason they seem uncomfortable depicting a white man with a black woman

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:20 p.m. CST

    at one time fox was great for blacks

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    now im afraid to watch fox just because its somehow connected to fox news...

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:20 p.m. CST

    The lead actors looked boring to me

    by crazybubba

    i'm usually the first person to tune into a show with a predominantly black cast, but this show looked boring. The actors came off as blands as that Australian guy for Hawaii Five-O and nothing about the plot seemed original or interesting.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:23 p.m. CST

    yourSTEPDADDY

    by Mr. Profit

    And (500) Days of Summer is my life as depicted by White People... I hate when people assume that Blacks/Latinos won't watch certain things.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:23 p.m. CST

    yourSTEPDADDY your HALF Token Remember?

    by Stalkeye

    But seriously all funnin aside, you made a valid point regarding Berry's Oscar win for Monster Ball(s) Denzel? Hell yeah! he always played the striaght up goody protagonist and his performance as a corrupt cop was effin great but halle mostly won for getting slammed by a hick and a fugly one at that.Had it been a serious romantic story between Berry and ledger instead of Billy the Blob Thorton, I would have given her win props.The academy is for the most part full of shite.needless to say the racisrt remarks that were made from the members post oscars:"This is the most I have seen them hold their Gold" or "The oscar telecast should have been renamed Showtime at the apollo".<p>Now THAT's Hollywood.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:25 p.m. CST

    lecter, I'm confused

    by SithMenace

    Whites will only watch blacks at the bottom of the barrel, or they'll only watch blacks in well to do situations like the Cosby Show?<p>Pulp Fiction had one black lead, two if you count Marcellus. Jackie Brown had two black leads. Friday was a predominantly black cast. Boyz n' the Hood, all black cast, highly successful and mainstream. And a spike Lee film with predominantly black cast that was successful? Do the Right Thing.<p>Are we now saying a movie has to be in the top 10 highest grossing films ever to be a blockbuster? Or is it a budget to gross ratio? Or one of the most successful that year? I didn't know it had to be an all black cast, I thought we were talking about black leads. I don't see this blatant disregard for black lead actors in films or sitcoms. Maybe network dramas, but that also may be because most of them have just been flat out bad, regardless of the leads' color.<p>Look, I'm not saying blacks have had it easy in this country, I know more then most other white people what they've been through, and I empathize, I really do. But to say that nothing with black leads is successful is a gross generalization because there are too many other other factors that need to be considered.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:26 p.m. CST

    its funny

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i disliked hipshot at 1st for his "nice" 1st posts... now i only want him to ever get first

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Mr. Profit

    by SithMenace

    I hate it when people assume whites won't watch certain things.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:30 p.m. CST

    lol i am half black

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    but the cops wont say "were lookin for a half black and half japanese suspect that is 6'1"... but black people can tell im mixed... i got "good hair" and "chinkyish eyes" (and because of those reasons, i think girls wanna use me as a sperm donor...ive heard it before)

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:32 p.m. CST

    8.6 Million Viewers....

    by Mr. Profit

    Isn't this good for NBC?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:33 p.m. CST

    Step, that works in your favor (I'm sure.)

    by Stalkeye

    Chicks love unique features. Play on Playa!

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:34 p.m. CST

    regardn 500 days

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i LOVE THAT MOVIE! So much so that i sometimes conversate with one of my top 3 most hated tbers (BSB, that guy is a racist!). but great movie, concept, narrative and soundtrack. i think im the ONLY black/jap 25 year old guy that cranks "make my dreams come true" lol... side note: theres a mixtape mashup of Lil Wayne on 500 Days soundtrack, try it, its pretty neat!

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:34 p.m. CST

    SithMenace

    by Mr. Profit

    I never said "Whites won't watch Undercover". Or "Whites won't watch shows with Blacks". I'm not in that school of thought.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:36 p.m. CST

    The only reason to tune into FOX would be

    by Stalkeye

    Family Guy and maybe Human Target,otherwise it is a potentual propaganda network for Rupert Murdoch.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:37 p.m. CST

    I know profit

    by SithMenace

    I didn't say you.<p>This was an interesting subject but I really have to go. Thanks to everyone that was able to discuss this in a civilized manner, a rare thing on this site.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:37 p.m. CST

    sithmenance

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    name 1 black movie not about the hood, drugs, "gangs", and/or cops... right...

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:39 p.m. CST

    by yourSTEPDADDY

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:39 p.m. CST

    yourSTEPDADDY

    by Mr. Profit

    I once changed my Twitter-Facebook names to "Tom Hansen". When I saw that movie I fucking felt what JGL was feeling. And the part where the reality and expectation are side by side in a split screen KILLED me... Call me a wuss, I don't care, I'm a sucker for well done realistic movies regarding romance and love.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:40 p.m. CST

    the best reviewed black movie here was

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    hustle and flow... movie sucked... but hey, its hard out here for a pimp right aicn?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:41 p.m. CST

    I Am Legend

    by SithMenace

    Black lead actor. But I'm sure you have a clause as to why that one was successful too.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:45 p.m. CST

    family guy and fox

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i HATED Family Guy its 1st seasons... talk about racist... but it is funny (although i prefer South Park nonManatee style comedy). but i will say that Fox gave me the coolest black character in years in the form of Boyd... talk about badass!

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:45 p.m. CST

    family guy and fox

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i HATED Family Guy its 1st seasons... talk about racist... but it is funny (although i prefer South Park nonManatee style comedy). but i will say that Fox gave me the coolest black character in years in the form of Boyd... talk about badass!

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:47 p.m. CST

    Will Smith will always be hugely successful...

    by Mr. Profit

    Because people my age grew up watching him as the Fresh Prince every Monday night on NBC. After that, people my younger brothers age grew up watching him in movies and in syndication. That's why his movies do well. Even stuff like "The Pursuit of Happyness". He already has a built in audience of people who feel like they know him. And that crosses race/ethnicity.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:48 p.m. CST

    of course this was a civilized topic

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    none of us are hiding behind online personas. and of course, BSB didnt pop up to give us his insight on why white people can call black people the n word (the version endin in a, not er)...

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:50 p.m. CST

    to my fellow "brothas", half brothas, white bros

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    ill like to exchange info because in my life, i dont know any fellow "geeks". i am plannin to move to la shortly so hopefully that may change, but you guys are cool... hit me up on twitter (fumpdibbidy) or email fumpdibbidy@yahoo.com

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Hustle and flow was great until...

    by HoboCode

    it turned into Get Rich or Die Tryin at the end.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:51 p.m. CST

    I preferred Family Guy at the start.

    by Mr. Profit

    Now it's become pretty ridiculous. The last cohesive episode was the one where Lois was a thief and they ran away to "Asiantown". Now, it's a mess. You have to be a certain age to laugh at the references. My best friend is Austrian and spent his childhood up until Junior High in Austria. And we recently watched Family Guy and he was lost. <P>I oddly now prefer American Dad. No cut away gags. Coherent story that doesn't stray so far away from where it began.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:52 p.m. CST

    yourSTEPDADDY

    by Mr. Profit

    I just followed you.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:54 p.m. CST

    i am legend successful?

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i thought people here hated it... of course those guys i presume are racists... i simply cant fathom why someone would dislike him as an actor (but go all gay to the point of sayin theyre gettin boners from sly stone wrestlin with other bad actors)

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:56 p.m. CST

    hustle and flow was bad

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    and the plot twist? he really didnt know ludacris? wtfuckers...love that scene when they made that beat tho

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Mr. Profit

    by SithMenace

    Right there is a lead black actor that's loved by both white and black people, not only in movies but also on Network tv. Shouldn't that be a good thing? <p>Halle Berry won the Oscar, Denzel Washington is a highly successful lead actor, black sitcoms stay on tv, music made by black people is embraced by everyone, pro sports are extremely diverse and there's even a half black president. It seems that network tv dramas are the only place in entertainment that have yet to catch up. Maybe we should give Abrams some credit for trying to do that. <p>Like I said before, I don't care about race, I care about quality.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:58 p.m. CST

    My only gripe with I Am Legend

    by Mr. Profit

    Is the CGI could have been worked on a little more. Aside from that, if people hated, they were being stupid. The part where he killed the dog had the packed IMAX crowd silent.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:59 p.m. CST

    lol mrprofit

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    wtfuckers man? youre not fat! thats a aicn taboo lol

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 12:59 p.m. CST

    by yourSTEPDADDY

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:02 p.m. CST

    @sith

    by lecter1914

    I admit the statements sound contradictory lol. Here's what im saying. The Cosby's was a safe race neutral show. There was nothing distinctly black about the Huxtables and Cosby was already a big comedian with a following which contributed to its success. A fluke to say the least. But in general the shows with us being poor are the ones that white people feel safe watching i.e. Good Times, Sanford and Son etc...How about shows like GirlFriends? One on One? Half and Half? Moesha? Are We There yet? Meet the Browns? Bernie Mac? shows that featured relatively middle class african americans that get no mainstream audience. Even in movies...how many of the non-minorities on this board saw WHy Did I Get Married? Waiting TO Exhale? How Stella got Her Groove Back? films about relatively middle class black families? Probably not many. But Films like hustle and Flow get all the recognition and films like whats love got to do with it get IGNORED. In horror films, why is it that all black horror films that come out take place in the hood? These probably arent things white audiences think about simply because they don't have to.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Stepdaddy

    by SithMenace

    I Am Legend was pretty successful, and if that wasn't the best example, see Independence Day or Men In Black. Yeah, they're Sci-Fi, a big draw, but they did have a lead black actor.<p>Btw, I agree about Will Smith vs. Stallone, I'd rather watch Will Smith any day. Except First Blood, that was a cool movie.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:06 p.m. CST

    sith i understand what youre sayin

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    and i agree on quality issues (thats why i find bet so terrible among other reasons). but i belief black shows/movies wont ever get the quality material a white show/movie could. jj abrams usually has some fantastical element to his show (judgin based off fringe, lost, alias rembaldi thing) but UnderCovers showed nothing promising... now i think if it were a white couple, there wouldve been a time traveling alien in there somewhere... you think we will ever see a Old School/Hangover type of black comedy? nope... even if was based off good material, it would be sidelined in order to cast rnb singers or rappers instead of competent actors... this is why i fear my screenplay about a black college student on a black college campus would somehow end up starrin michael cera with the cast of gossip girl set in orange county (that is if i ever get it sold)

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Sith Menace

    by Hipshot

    You seem to be sincere, so I'll address your questions from my point of view, one adult to another. 1) "Success" is relative, but I'll ask you to look at movies that have earned over 100 million--in other words, that white audiences embraced. "I Am Legend" easily did that. But notice that they TOTALLY emasculated Smith's character. In the previous version, Omega Man, Charlton Heston "the last man in the world" got it on with the "last woman in the world" who just happened to be black (and yes, they made a joke out of it.) Biologically, we are programmed to go CRAZY for sex in a catastrophic situation. Will Smith displayed no interest at all. So Will, and Denzel and whoever else you want to name CAN have big box office--as long as they don't get laid. If you don't notice this, it can seem all is well. In other words--so long as they are no reproductive competition for white males. Conversely, and in great contrast, Halle Berry specifically won the Oscar for the most graphic sex scene in a decade. That same year, Denzel gets HIS Oscar for dying. Get it? The black woman is sexually available...the black man is sexually non-competitive. THAT is the rule in movies. The rule in television is different: no dramatic leads. Second leads, yes. Supporting roles, yes. But that is all. ## The most interesting thing about this is that, while it's 100% provable statistically, white people are extremely resistant to believing it can be true. As if they are the only people in the history of the world who are non-tribal, who do not prefer their own. This is universal human stuff: I just enjoy pointing it out, 'cause there's always someone around who thinks the playing field is level. I can live with being at a disadvantage--but I'll be damned if I'll let you believe I'm not.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:13 p.m. CST

    if Jake Sully was black

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    avatar wouldve made like $1000... fact lol

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:15 p.m. CST

    LOL. I exercise and lift weights daily...

    by Mr. Profit

    I cant co-sign being heavy.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:16 p.m. CST

    lecter

    by SithMenace

    But Chris Rock is a controversial black comedian, granted with a following, and he has a hit show with Everybody Hates Chris. He's basically the anti-Cosby, but I know alot of white people that enjoy that show, including me. Not on a regular basis, but if it's on I'll watch it. Most of those you named up there just aren't funny, the exception being the Bernie Mac show, which I know white people watched, again including me. I've seen several episodes of those other shows you listed, and they're really just not that funny? Why? Poorly written, just like 95% of the white sitcoms on tv.<p>As far as the movies you listed, I didn't see them. But I also didn't see any white romantic films over the last 5 or so years either. I can't speak for other white people, but they're not my thing. In fact how many white romantic films reach out past their target audience? I can't think of one, and I can't think of any offhand that were wildly more successful than Stella or Waiting To Exhale, which I know appealed to white women as well.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:17 p.m. CST

    As for the quality of black dramas--

    by Hipshot

    Since quality is subjective, about all that can reliably be said is: "given any black drama, most white viewers will consider it substandard." This is why there have been so few successful ones. Now, perhaps you can argue that it is TRUE that they are substandard, or bad. But can you suggest a mechanism that causes this? My mechanism is universal human perception. Yours almost certainly will suggest something "different" about black people. Mine casts no blame, suggests no one is guilty, and asks no one to change. I'm just pointing out a truth that has caused endless human misery. This isn't about black and white, it is about the fact that we have thick perceptual filters, we want to believe we are good, and we are like fish who cannot see the water we swim in. You literally cannot see the fantastic cultural advantages you have. And if you don't...that leaves few options to explain the difference in black and white performance, doesn't it? Doesn't it almost DEMAND that you quietly, privately, think, "well, maybe those people aren't quite...well..." Just quiet your thoughts for a minute and ask yourself how many times you have heard people say things like that, regretfully perhaps, saying that "It isn't PC to say it, but with all the wonderful opportunities...why can't they catch up..." For the same damned reason there've only been about 2 successful dramas with black leads, that's why.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:18 p.m. CST

    Mr and Mrs Smiff

    by hector

    Right?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:19 p.m. CST

    OK Question

    by rogueleader66

    Are "black" movies (and I really hate having to make some sort of seperation like that) not successful JUST because mainstream white audiences don't go see them? Or is it that plus the fact that they don't attract a large black audience as well? Maybe because blacks are tired of the stereotypes in a lot of those movies as well? I am not prejiduced in ANY way, for the record. I see us all as human beings, not black, white, yellow, whatever. people are people. I am just curious as to the answer. One of my best friends is black, and most of the time he turns his nose up at "black" films, he finds them, for the most part, insulting. With perhaps the exception of Tyler Perry's stuff.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Truthfully

    by rogueleader66

    I hate racial sterotypes, segregation of black and white films, and the treatment of blacks in say TV and the movies. I regret to say that Hipshot is more or less correct, and that's really messed up. It shouldn't be that way. All the progress we have made as far as race relations and were still not where we should be. Unexcuseable really.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:25 p.m. CST

    You're all FOS!

    by BrannigansLaw

    I mean, many of you were rubbin' your balls in anticipation of this show along with the rest of America. And now that the reviews are in, you're saying that the show is failing because the leads are black?! Before the overnights were even released?! <p> How can you have a show that was so highly anticipated *because* of it's premise be preemptively doomed because of that same premise? See? It's total nonsense. <P> If this show fails (and don't be so sure that it will), it will be on it's merits (or lack, thereof), not simply because the leads are black. My take on the show is that it was watchable, but not particularly imaginative or exciting. It's like Chuck meets Hart to Hart meets (a watered-down) Mr & Mrs Smith. This may have been NBC's objective at the 8:00 hour, and it may work... on Sunday, perhaps (think "Murder, She Wrote" timeslot/audience). However... <p> If this show is to have any kind of critical appeal they need to add REAL TENSION. Throughout the show, I kept feeling that there was nothing at stake. There was no significant conflict between the leads, the restaurant was supposed to be important to them (but came off as a minor annoyance... they didn't seem to really care what went on while they were away), and they never appeared to be in any real danger together. <p> Here's the main problem: WHY WAS IT NECESSARY TO BRING THESE HIGHLY UNLIKELY RETIREES OUT OF RETIREMENT? What did they do that no other spy couldn't have done? If there was something significant, they should have made it more central to the story. Don't tell me how awesome they are... ***SHOW ME***, DAMMIT!! <p> Oops... that went a bit long. Ending rant.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Hipshot

    by SithMenace

    Will Smith had sexy time flirting in MIB, with a white woman. Did he do it? No, but she was obviously into him, and it implied they were together at the end. If you look at most of the top 25 films of all time, they featured little to no sex whatsoever, between whites or blacks. And Berry winning the Oscar for a sex scene and Denzel winning it for dying? There may be something there and there may not, but it appears that the Academy voted for them for great performances, not because of a threatened subconscious Freudian concept. But there's no way we could ever prove or disprove that, it's a mute point.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:28 p.m. CST

    white romantic movies...

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i know black people (even some hoodish guys) that enjoyed 500 days, the notebook, and titantic... thats 3 right there

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:30 p.m. CST

    by yourSTEPDADDY

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Ok, I'm really out this time

    by SithMenace

    It was good talking with you guys.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:33 p.m. CST

    @sith

    by lecter1914

    As far as Chris Rock you answered your own question. He had a large following from his comedy. And the weird thing with Everyone hates chris is that...I actually don't know any black people that watched it but know lots of white people that did...weird lol.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:38 p.m. CST

    Shaft

    by Samuel Fulmer

    Need I say more. In the film series he got it on with all types and didn't die.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:39 p.m. CST

    But then you see the 2000 Shaft

    by Samuel Fulmer

    And Samuel L. Jackson's nephew Shaft was basically a neuter, so maybe it's the times.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 1:50 p.m. CST

    Seth MacFarlane on Sunday nights for 90 minutes

    by Tigger Tales

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:02 p.m. CST

    How to improve the show...

    by BrannigansLaw

    I think that the show has good bones, they just need to connect them a bit differently.<p> For example, more emphasis should have been placed on the dire state of the restaurant. This should have been a source of tension as it would be with any real couple. This would have made their desire to return to being spies more understandable: for much needed money and a good tension release (i.e. take out frustrations on the bad guys). <p> Another, move the Jewish/Asian wedding conflict to the major gun battle so the conflicts are concurrent. Picture it: the Blooms are pinned down, guns a-blazin'... they get a call, the sister says she wants to substitute pork. Run with it. It can be funny as well has heighten the tension if handled correctly. Further, the resolution of both conflicts could be sequential (gun battle first), providing a smooth disembark from the roller-coaster. <p> I think the show is riddled with such missed opportunities. I'd hook this show up... but alas, I'm not on the staff...

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:05 p.m. CST

    New Fringe tonight...Talkback?

    by rben

    hello? Bueller? Bueller?

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:16 p.m. CST

    JJ Abrams didn't create this show

    by RPLocke

    Someone else ghost wrote it for him. I can't believe after LOST he created this piece of shit.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:17 p.m. CST

    No paranormal?

    by Prozak

    I disagree that there was no paranormal in Undercovers. How about the scene where the banker realizes they aren't who they say they are, rushes in to the room with no other exits, and they have magically teleported outside? I actually liked the leads (and I am as white as they come), it was the annoying white guy they teamed up with them that had me flipping channels every time he was on screen. I wont be setting my DVR for this one, tis a shame really, network TV could use some color for sure.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:28 p.m. CST

    If Jake Sully was black and played by Will Smith

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    Avatar would have made $5 billion. But it would also have been akin to poisoning the punch bowl.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:51 p.m. CST

    Hustle and Flow had potentual

    by Stalkeye

    but it felt too "ghetto" and less cultured. "Whoop dat trick" and needless to say, the protagonist portrayed by Terrance Howard was just another Pimp wanna be Rapper.Had the story focused on a brotha on the streets who is disillusioned by the "right" way of being successful (i.e.holding a regular job)but opts to go the way as some aspiring rapper, then it would have more substance. The dealer turned rapper has already been done before..but in real life.:Notorious BIG.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:56 p.m. CST

    The problem with the show is it's about

    by Dingbatty

    yuppies. All of Abrams stuff is about yuppies.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:59 p.m. CST

    As Weak as Undercovers was.

    by Stalkeye

    At least the Black protagonists were not your average cariticure stereotypes like say Paul Weasel Shit Anderson's recent Resident Evil Afterlife in which that same actor from undercovers, Boris Koojo plays a basketball player who not only performs some Jordan move to stop a plane from crashing, but yells "yeah, bitches' while holding two gats.(Gats meaning Guns for the Uninitiated.)With the exception of One from the first RE and Lawrence fishburne's character from Event horizon, paul focuses too much on the stereotypical perception of Black males.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Buppies?

    by Stalkeye

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:02 p.m. CST

    Also, it's cutesy. It should have the tone of

    by Dingbatty

    say, Target, starring Gene Hackman and Matt Dillon.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:04 p.m. CST

    @stalkeye

    by lecter1914

    I didn't notice until now, but I was slightly turned off by the "pimp" in RE2.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:06 p.m. CST

    Fuck, Human target far surpasses Undercovers

    by Stalkeye

    And it's a good blend of action, suspense and comedic elements.<p>Abrams' FAIL!

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Speaking of paranormal, I like how in

    by Dingbatty

    shows and movies people always manage to get a parking space right in front of whatever building, store, or restaurant they are going to.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Lecter you mean Mike Epps character, LT?

    by Stalkeye

    There should have been a director's cut in which Epps is removed from the film entirely, Jill's Black partner should have had a bigger part in the scheme of things. But after being bitten over two hours, he finally turned into a zombie.Epps' character was a joke upon itself.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:15 p.m. CST

    epps: RE2

    by lecter1914

    He just kind of bugged me. It was like watching a shuck and jive show. I wanted him to die quickly. ironically in the 3rd film i liked his character and then he did die quickly.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:20 p.m. CST

    JUST MOVE IT TO BET

    by BringingSexyBack

    Problem solved.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:24 p.m. CST

    Perceptions can change as well as definitions of success

    by TallanDagwood

    A lot has been said in here concerning how one race - as if any are in lock-step, may perceive another. Certainly there exists cultural differences that can trump racial or ethnic.<p> An example would be that of 1960's and 1970's American culture that perceived all Japanese products as being inferior.<p> Americans of all races and creeds believed that to be so. <p> Japan was thought to only be able to produce laughable monster movies, and was given a grudging respect for their abilities in micro-miniaturization. <p> Looking back now -especially considering the dominance of Japanese electronics, how could we have come this far in such a relatively short period of time? <p> The answer is simply generational change as well as a genuine commitment to excellence by Japanese manufacturers. <p> We have already seen the generational shift within American society - I do not believe that any country that can produce a Black President would find the majority of its non-Black citizens intentionally snub Black themed entertainment simply because it was produced by or starring Blacks.<p> The music and sports industries - as just two high profile examples, would be decimated if that were so. <p> 'But TV and movies are different' How so? <p>Perhaps some movies simply do not appeal to mass audiences? Some are targeted to certain communities - and they thrive.<p> There still exists movies that only gore-hounds will go and see, or movies that only die-hard horror fans will see. <p> The rise of Tyler Perry was due to his targeting a specific audience and catering to it. <p> Was that the entire Black community? No, of course not. Simply a segment. But it was an under served segment. <p> Perry has since branched out, and while not forgetting that original segment he has sought to expand his reach, he is bringing in whole new audiences. he is also upping the quality of his offerings. <p> Will Perry ever be truly mainstream? Who knows, but I would not bet against it. <p> Will mainstream audiences embrace movies or TV starring people from other ethnic groups? Of course they will. The movie or TV show simply needs to be entertaining. <p> having said all of that, of course there is still prejudice in this country. Of course there still exists negative perceptions of some peoples. We would be naive to think otherwise. But as the Japanese example above shows, we as a people, as a culture, can change. <p> Perhaps Undercovers fails not because of the leads, but because of the material.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:25 p.m. CST

    Should have made it a period show set in the '70s.

    by fiester

    With big afros and lots of jive-talking. That would have been a hit!

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Lead Actor looks like Donovan McNabb

    by TrigPalinsBodyDouble

    His nemesis should be a dog killing Chris Rock on steroids.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:28 p.m. CST

    I look forward to Tyler Perry's

    by InActionMan

    Madea in Outer Space.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:32 p.m. CST

    yuppies?

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    this is when i feel "black" on aicn... when words like yuppies and hipsters are bein used... wtfuckers is a yuppie or a hipster? maybe if it was the 80s, i would have a clearer understanding of that term... but i lmao at "buppies"

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:32 p.m. CST

    by yourSTEPDADDY

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Tallandagwood

    by lecter1914

    Very well put. But the one thing you were incorrect about it the snubbing of one segment being "intentional." I know I never said it was intentional, i said it was subconsiouse. I dont think anyone looks at something and says...I'm not going to watch that, it has black people in it. I think there's just an automatic disconnect that would prevent them from actively seeking it out.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:40 p.m. CST

    I've heard Buppies before...

    by Mr. Profit

    Someone once used that word to describe how West Nyack NY was attracting a lot of Buppies.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:42 p.m. CST

    trig... wtfuckers

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i dont wanna say youre a racist for thinkin boris lightskinnormalshapedheadwithbeard kudjoe looks like mcnabb, but i do wanna say youre probably livin in a town where the mayor is married to his toothless cousin-aunt... maybe if ya said Common, but McNabb? PS: Fuck MCNABB! GO COWBOYS!

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:43 p.m. CST

    by yourSTEPDADDY

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 3:54 p.m. CST

    Boris DOES NOT look like McNabb...

    by Mr. Profit

    Not to sound like my Auntie when she has an "Oh No This Fool DIDN'T" moment, but come the fuck on. Boris is a light brown skinned black guy. And McNabb is dark. They have no similar facial features. I could have understood if you said he looked like Henry Simmons or something. But McNabb? In the words of Ed Lover... "Come on son!" <P>I would understand if you said GuGu Mbatha Raw looked like Kerry Washington.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 4 p.m. CST

    WHAT BLACK LEADS?

    by BringingSexyBack

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Racism or no, can we all agree that it sucked

    by Saen

    It doesnt matter what race the leads were, the story line was mediocre at best, the action wasn't even up to that of Burn Notice or Chuck. I couldnt really care about the leads relationship, I didnt laugh at anything, and I didnt really feel any suspense, or danger, or anything that will pull me into the 2nd episode. No actors could have saved this show from being crap; it needed a whole new plot, and style. It seems like Abrams phoned this one in.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 4:32 p.m. CST

    CHOPPAH, COME HOME!

    by Le Vicious Fishus

    [sobs]

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 4:35 p.m. CST

    Maybe if they had a lead who wasn't so boringly handsome?

    by ClaireRedfield

    Boris Kodjoe is like a Nyquil and Vodka martini. Snooze. It's unfortunate that his blandness is probably what got him the part. He's not threateningly black, or ethnic; his features are generally race heutral. And he doesn't have an overly noticable accent. Acceptable to white audiences? Maybe, maybe not. Super boring? Yes.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 4:58 p.m. CST

    Saen

    by lecter1914

    Yes, we can all agree the show did indeed suck.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 5:02 p.m. CST

    saen

    by lecter1914

    yes, we can all agree the show did indeed suck.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 6:39 p.m. CST

    You don't need to put a '@' before someone's handle!

    by TedKordLives

    When someone sees their handle in the subject line, they'll check it out. God damn twits.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:24 p.m. CST

    NippleEffect

    by bychance

    It is the exact opposite, it is far more common to see a white man with a black love interest in the media (tv, movies, commercials, etc) than the other way around. Its more than most people realize [before they take the time to think about it]. Most Black actresses/singers will eventually have a White man for a love interest (affectionate and/or explicit sex scenes included) at some point during their career. The same can NOT be said about a Black actor. The first interracial kiss on television was a black woman (Nichelle Nichols) and a white man (William Shatner) in "Star Trek" (Uhura and Kirk). That was in 1967. In the 80s show "21 Jump Street", every love interest Holly Robinson was given was White, including the two leads Johnny Depp and Peter DeLuise (son of Dom DeLuise). Screech had an on-going crush on Lisa in "Saved By The Bell". In "Fresh Prince of Bel Air" Will's aunt married a White man, yet Will (or Carlton) NEVER once had a White girlfriend? You can't possibly not notice this trend. The Black girlfriend character is always race neutral, her race is rarely mentioned and if it is, its a lighthearted joke. In the media its okay for The White Man (protagonist) to have his way with all the hot 'ethnic' ladies to reaffirm that he is the ultimate desirable male. It is not okay for male minorities to do so. And it isn't just fictional, it is based on reality - laws were created to forbid Chinese male immigrants from marrying White women. But that didn't stop White males from being with Chinese women. Laws were made to forbid African American males from even LOOKING at a White women, but White males had more than their fair share of Black women. There's a pattern here and its clear. Here's a good long list of Black female/White male pairings in movies. Its much longer than the other list, and it goes farther back into the 20th century. http://www.jeffandcorey.com/ELIG.html Media Messiah Racists also consider it bestiality when a White women sleeps with a Black man, even more so. White American Bigots have had a long history of a creepy sexual curiosity and fascination with Black men. It doesn't matter which gender, they view all Blacks as animals. I know you don't mean anything by it, trust me I've heard it all. Just not sure why you felt the need to bring it up. Speaking of Howard Stern, he has a major obsession with black men and their privates. lecter1914 Gina did not have long hair. From what I remember her hair was always styled short. Lisa Bonet has worn her hair in dreadlocks and tons of other hairstyles, so her hair length is irrelevant. I never got the impression that Tempest Bledsoe was supposed to be unlikeable. There are two dark skinned women on Girlfriends, and all four women were promoted as sex symbols, not just Persia White. Fareal A Black married couple as doctors and lawyers? What's next, an accident prone Black nerd genius who creates wacky inventions? According to the show 'Friends' Gabrielle Union and Aisha Tyler are the only Black people that exist in New York City apparently. Of course Black audiences watched, but its not exactly high up on the list as say "Living Single" was.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:33 p.m. CST

    BYCHANCE - I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THOSE LAWS

    by BringingSexyBack

    Looks like I'm gonna have to make some citizen's arrests tomorrow.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 7:57 p.m. CST

    The Wire was about black people locking up black people

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    at least as much as it was about white people doing the same. More, probably. Not to mention the many, many people of color in positions of power, and portraying sympathetic characters. And not to mention the Wire isn't about people getting locked up, whatever their color. I really don't think you ever watched one episode of the show. Either that or like I said, you are crazy.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 8:25 p.m. CST

    Damn Im missing an interesting talkback

    by D.Vader

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 8:29 p.m. CST

    I was not interested in this show

    by D.Vader

    And it had nothing to do with the leads being black. Another spy show by JJ Abrams does not interest me. Especially when I know he's developing 7 other shows at the same time. Especially when I know he's just going to leave the show to do more movies and more series. <p> I just get a "been there, done that" vibe. The girl is extremely hot, however. And she's the reason I almost tuned in.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 8:52 p.m. CST

    Sex in the top 25

    by Hipshot

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 8:55 p.m. CST

    Sex in the top 25

    by Hipshot

    Iron Man (typical PG-13 style) Avatar Titanic. ### No, my standard isn't that high---but black actors don't even get that much. "She was into Will Smith." Man, you're in denial. I clearly said: "100 Million Plus) and you try to confine it to the top 25, then you try to change the conditions so that if a woman LOOKS at a black man, that's supposed to be equivilent to actually watching a white guy tapping that ass? Your arguments are weak, weak, weak. Come on--bring it. Oh, that's right: there's nothing to bring. I've thought this one through, Dude. Really.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 8:55 p.m. CST

    Sex in the top 25

    by Hipshot

    Iron Man (typical PG-13 style) Avatar Titanic. ### No, my standard isn't that high---but black actors don't even get that much. "She was into Will Smith." Man, you're in denial. I clearly said: "100 Million Plus) and you try to confine it to the top 25, then you try to change the conditions so that if a woman LOOKS at a black man, that's supposed to be equivilent to actually watching a white guy tapping that ass? Your arguments are weak, weak, weak. Come on--bring it. Oh, that's right: there's nothing to bring. I've thought this one through, Dude. Really.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 9:36 p.m. CST

    thunderbolt

    by lecter1914

    Ive seen every episode of the show and no, i'm not crazy...or at least I don't think so, but I suppose if I was crazy I wouldn't know it...in any case, you can interpret the show your way and I can interpret it mine and we can agree to disagree. Again, not downplaying the brilliance and nuances of The Wire, but I stand by my assertion that it was easily watchable by white audiences because of the fact that it was a show about overwhelmingly black criminals and the police looking to take them down(i'm simplifying the issue but boil it down and thats what it is). Sorry, if that offends anyone, but that's just this african americans perspective on the subject. I would encourage each of you too do some research and find out how many black writers were on the wire. The answer, hopefully, will shock you and wake you up. Eff it, I'll jus say it. There were no black writers on the Wire. So, to simplify such a complex show....you basically have a show about bad black people as written by white writers...and the mainstream audience eats it up. Does no one see anything..anything at all wrong with this picture? But I digress, and sign off. Do enjoy your day.

  • Sept. 23, 2010, 11:42 p.m. CST

    Undercovers was Underwhelming!

    by wtriker1701

    Despite great actors (and there we will have Rick Simon in a new recurring role? Here's hope! I loved Simon&Simon!) and superb production values, there was no drama, no depth, no real suspense. It was enjoyable at times, but also boring at others. <p> No, it's definitely not another ALIAS. And I don't think, there will be a story arc... I might be terribly wrong... unless they'd try to harm their marriage. <p> It was an OK one, but nothing for me to "hang on, bitze-my-nails, never-miss-one-episode, downloading-it-NOW"!

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 3:06 a.m. CST

    Yes, yuppies. Google or Wikipedia is your

    by Dingbatty

    friend. Or a dictionary.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 3:13 a.m. CST

    Story Arc

    by ElPaw

    Did noone else catch the line about "they didn't suspect the real reason they were brought back?" - I'm guessing that's the story arc/thread that will run through the season. Or it's just a lame line to set up some "mystery" for people to tune in next week

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 7:33 a.m. CST

    lecter

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I just think you are barking up the wrong tree. You picked probably the worst one too.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 8:29 a.m. CST

    Thunderbolt

    by lecter1914

    Just because you disagree doesn't make me wrong. Just means we see it differently. But there have been studies done and its just a fact that for whatever reasons EVERYONE has been brainwashed by the media to perceive and see things a certain way and I stand by my assertion that maintstram audiences easily accepted the wire and hailed it as realistic because of the dynamics of race. And, if you have an extra nine minutes I implore you to watch this clip. It's eye opening http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0S5BhPSxq0

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 10:42 a.m. CST

    LECTER - HAVE YOU SEEN BROOKLYN'S FINEST?

    by BringingSexyBack

    Man, everything about that movie (especially it being directed by a black dude) will infuriate the hell out of you. <P> The problem is, it rings too true. Society has a legitimate fear about the prevalence of black crime and aggression. If The Wire and Brooklyn's Finest were so offbase, and have no authenticity to them, they would be self-evidently false. But that's not the case. They are real. Doesn't matter if a white man or a black man tells the tale, if the telling is true. So I think the problem is not the portrayal of blacks in films, but the behavior of blacks (not all, of course, but of too many that it affects the perception of the entire race) in society at large. <P> That's where you should target your anxiety. Trying to impose political correctness to alter people's perception will not work and only engenders resentment and division.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 10:54 a.m. CST

    AND I DID VIEW THAT CLIP, LECTER

    by BringingSexyBack

    It's one big blame whitey tirade. Nothing more. I'm sorry for being so blunt, but the predilection of the black community to blame white people for everything has grown tiresome. What can be said of 1965 cannot be said of 2010. Blacks have a PRESIDENT as a role model now. FFS. If a black child still prefers a white doll then the problem is in that child's household and his/her interaction with their own.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 10:58 a.m. CST

    BSB

    by lecter1914

    I'm not going to argue with your point. Yes, there are black criminals. There are criminals of every ethnicity and nationality. But for some reason the portrayals of minorities doing bad things gets all of the hype and publicity. If movies like Soul Food got as much critical praise as films like Hustle and Flow and Training Day I wouldnt have a leg to stand on, but thats not the case. No one wants to see teh soul foods or the What's Love Got To DO With Its of the world, but they run in droves to go see Boys In The Hood and Precious. I mean we can debate it all day, I love intelligent debate, but I think if you look critically you will see that mainstream audiences really only want to see African Americans portrayed in one way and not much can change that. Its not even racism I dont believe. Shit, I know Ive never watched an episode of the OC because I see the commercials and I think to myself I have absolutely no interest in watching a show like that.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 11:06 a.m. CST

    BSB

    by lecter1914

    I don't think it's a blame whitey situation per se as much as it is blame the media. The media gives these negative portrayals of black people that the mainstream just eats up and then when black people themselves buy into it and develop self hatred...who are they supposed to blame? The media is who I pin it on personally and I dont even believe it to be intentional. And as far as your point about shows like the wire and brooklyns finest portraying the so called truth about blacks being the criminal demographic...I refer you to the cokehead alcoholic car theif Lindsay Lohan....who has yet to serve more than a few days in prison and I will take that point no further because its off topic. Its a deep issue that cant be solved in a nerd talkback but its worth discussing.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 11:15 a.m. CST

    Lohan is rich....or at least can afford a lawyer.

    by HoboCode

    That is why she's getting a slap on the wrist. Not becasue of her skin color. Ever heard of OJ? But I digress.<p> Our society doesn't have some predilection for specifically black crime dramas. We love crime dramas period. We romanticize the shit and it's a problem. Look at The Sopranos. The Departed. Goodfellas. Everything Guy Ritchie has directed. Look at Inception even.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 11:21 a.m. CST

    HoboCode

    by lecter1914

    I'm not going to get into the discussion of race vs jail time, because thats a whole nother ball game and not on topic. And youre still missing the point. For Every Sopranos there's a 7th heaven. For every goodfellas theres a brothers and sisters. For every departed there's an Aly McBeal, for every Guy RItchie movie theres a Ron Howard movie. The representationsof non minorities is overwhelmingly more positive than negative..the exact opposite is true for minorities, especially african americans.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 11:52 a.m. CST

    HEY, I SAW PRECIOUS. IT FUCKING SCARRED ME.

    by BringingSexyBack

    Holy shit, if I was Precious not only would I pick the white doll but I'd jump off the Empire State Building. That girl's problems stem not from The Wire but from some seriously fucked household. <P> And it's not out of some desire to see fucked up black situations that I caught it but it's because of all the damned hype from the black community itself, including Oprah that I was curious. <P> And listen. Stop complaining about media portrayals, please. Asians aren't exactly portrayed in exalted ways you know. But they manage to move past it and not dwell on it. And by doing that they neutralize any negative portrayals out there. I mean, when I see an Asian gangster on TV I kind laugh and think it's lame. Not because those gangsters don't exist, but because Asians as a whole have such a better reputation that it's very obvious that the portrayals is more caricaturizing than reality. <P> Again, shift your focus on better black people's behavior as a whole, then you will have solved the problem of perception on the whole.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 11:54 a.m. CST

    DO YOU KNOW WHY DESPITE THE SOPRANOS, JERSEY SHORE, ETC.

    by BringingSexyBack

    that Italians don't suffer a bad reputation across the board? Think hard about that.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Glory.....

    by HoboCode

    Eyes on the Prize. Ali. The Color Purple. The Princess and the Frog. The No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency. Blade. Get on the Bus. Barbershop. Basquiat. Beloved. The Cosby Show. Malcolm X. Boondocks. Brian's Song. Buffalo Soldiers. Eve's Bayou. City of God. Hotel Rwanda. Coming to America. Cry, the Beloved Country. Jason's Lyric. Do the Right Thing. Seven. Dreamgirls. Hoop Dreams. Othello. Far From Heaven. Ghost Dog. Sister Act. The Gods Mut Be Crazy. He Got Game. Jackie Brown. Roots. The Nutty Professor. Out of Time. Rosewood. Shaka Zulu. The Shawshank Redemption. Soul Food. A Time to Kill. Tsotsi. To Kill a Mockingbird. Waiting to Exhale. How Stella Got Her Groove Back. Ray.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 11:59 a.m. CST

    I LIKE THE BLACK PEOPLE ON TOP CHEF

    by BringingSexyBack

    Shit, the white people are crazier on that show.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 12:02 p.m. CST

    Hobocode

    by lecter1914

    And thus lies the problem...for white negativity you went to the departed and sopranos and Goodfellas. With the exception of goodfellas those other ones arent even 5 years old. For blacks you had to take it back to Glory(which I still am not sure thats positive sicne they were slaves and all). Shawshank was not a predominantly black film neither was sister act, to kill amockingbird, gods must be crazy, and Blade. SO please remove those. I have to go to a meeting, be back in 30 minutes but I'll quickly say your list is VERY dated for positive portrayals of blacks in predominantly black movies. Which further validates my point that its highly disproportionate. I shall return.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 12:06 p.m. CST

    What?

    by HoboCode

    They were freed slaves fro mthe north. If you don't think Glory is a positive portrayal of Black people, then I'm done wasting my time with you. Good luck feeling sorry for yourself.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 12:20 p.m. CST

    I'm not racist

    by TrigPalinsBodyDouble

    Some of my best friends are black Miis.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 12:24 p.m. CST

    yourSTEPDADDY and Mr. Profit

    by TrigPalinsBodyDouble

    In that still frame for the clip Herc posted he reminds me of McNabb in the eyes and his mouth and goatee, but I agree having watched the rest of the clip he does not look like him. But I would pose this question: is it possible for a light-skinned African American to look like a dark-skinned AA if they have similar bone structure and facial features?

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:03 p.m. CST

    HoboCode

    by lecter1914

    I'm not exactly sure how I feel about Glory and its representation. It sure isn't a Soul Plane but I don't know if I would directly call is positive but I also havent seen the film in decades so there's that. YOu still sidestepped the point that you had to go back THAT FREAKING FAR to find "positive" portrayals.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:11 p.m. CST

    He does look like McNabb in the still frame

    by SithMenace

    I should know, the Eagles are my hometown team. SUCK IT STEPDADDY HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:11 p.m. CST

    trig its possible

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i even said a old black actor (forgot from what show) look like that old white guy who did a bunch of spoofs (airplane and top gun). i may be the only one, but i can see similarities in different races (even though the noses are always different). hell britta from community las night reminded me of MJ (but thats a whole different thing seein as MJ drastically changed his appearance)

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:14 p.m. CST

    Brita was hot when she slicked her hair back

    by SithMenace

    for the dance competition. Usually though, not so much.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:15 p.m. CST

    sith

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    why do i have to suck it? because im a minority? you freakin racist! im callin al sharpton now... ps: eagles suck, GO COWBOYS!

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:18 p.m. CST

    Hey STEPDADDY

    by SithMenace

    Sharpton can't help your Cowgirls this year. Sorry. You may have to become a Texans fan after this year.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:18 p.m. CST

    another example of sith bein racist

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    he admits eagles is his team, and EVERYONE knows McNabb was booed by the eagles fans... why? a black quarterback! black people arent perceived as smart enough to lead a team, call plays, and/or perform screen plays... gosh sith, your racism shows (im just jokin, but i do hate you for bein a eagles fan)

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:21 p.m. CST

    I loved McNabb, I really did

    by SithMenace

    In a non gay way of course, not that there's anything wrong with that. It broke my heart when I found out he was traded to the Redskins of all teams. Then I knew we had to ride this season with Kolb, which was even worse. Thank God Vick stepped up to the plate, and Reid came to his senses.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:24 p.m. CST

    britta is weirdly attractive

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    usually dont like pale girls, but she has like cute droopy eyes with a cute button nose... its weird... but nice to see her "act" in Choke...

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Oh she was in that?

    by SithMenace

    I've never seen Choke.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:28 p.m. CST

    i lik to cheer on black qbs

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    but i absolutely hate mcnabb... this mofo stands in the pocket for 18secs, throws a pass, td... twice! to the cowboys (like 3 seasons ago)! then 2 seasons ago the eagles raped us 40 somethin to like 10... but its all good, not afraid of vick like mcnabb so we will get you (like last season)! PS: I hate the Texans, we CANNOT beat them

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:29 p.m. CST

    by yourSTEPDADDY

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:30 p.m. CST

    dont watch it sith

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    just google image her and choke... youre welcome

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:39 p.m. CST

    Yeah wasn't that the final reg. season game

    by SithMenace

    of '08? I think it was the last game you guys had T.O. I know, McNabb's pocket presence is incredible, but with Vick he's much more likely to take off than McNabb.They both claim to want to be passing QB's, which I'm sure they do, but Vick will run much sooner than McNabb.<p>You may have destroyed us last season, but these next couple games are ours. I hate the Texans too, but I do have Schaub and Johnson on my fantasy team.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Thanks for the heads up

    by SithMenace

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 2:01 p.m. CST

    yep

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    that game made me feeeeeeeeeeel so terrible... wtfuckers... but i rather have vick just run from the getgo than have mcnabb chill in the pocket then decide to run, it makes our defense look less idiotic... but vick will get hurt, and itll be a bitch (heh heh get it? bitch like a dog? i hate him for that shit)...

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Does every spy TV show or movie need a dance scene?

    by RPLocke

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 2:18 p.m. CST

    does every tb need a rplocke post?

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    short answer, no. long answer, yes, how else will we be reminded of how pointless his posts are especially the "this was a bad summer for movies" where he then lists movies that were either good, fun, and/or very creative...

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 2:27 p.m. CST

    Umm...Sith.

    by HoboCode

    He looks NOTHING like McNabb. You're making a bit of an ass of yourself.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 2:50 p.m. CST

    RE:They lost me with the constant airing of "FUMBLE-LEA... FUMBL

    by Stalkeye

    THAT'S the annoying song accompanied those trailers? UGH! Talk about lack of creativity.They lost me during the first 10-15 minutes of this trainwreck of a show. I'll stick to Sons of Anarchy, thank you very much.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 2:57 p.m. CST

    i dont like soa

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    talk about racists! but i am diggin Terriers, its like if Veronica Mars had two dumbass brothers

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 3:17 p.m. CST

    RE:SOA

    by Stalkeye

    Step, i guess that's like you saying you never cared for The Shield either because you may deem it Racist when in fact both series have show the good and worst both races have to offer. SOA gives a insight (albiet fictional)on the biker culture and like most biker gangs, corruption ensues

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 3:19 p.m. CST

    See?

    by TedKordLives

    I posted and you all stopped putting the '@' in the subject line. Good for you, you learned something.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 3:24 p.m. CST

    tedkord

    by lecter1914

    I was slightly embarrassed when you called it out. I didnt even realize I was doing it.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 3:25 p.m. CST

    contd...

    by Stalkeye

    press the enter button by mistake. anyways last season was deep as the SOA/SAMCRO faced off against Neo Nazis who gang raped the leader's wife.There's no real depiction of racism as SAMCRO has close ties with a black biker gang. Amirite?

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 3:29 p.m. CST

    @stalkeye #soa RT

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i never watched the shield either. i believe soa is factualish, but im just not interested in Sam crowe. to me, theyre not cool or fun or funny but they are (from what i remember) intolerant to the blacks, which makes me like them less... im all up for showin the good and bad in races, but at least be entertainin... but thats just me

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 3:33 p.m. CST

    peggy gettin raped

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i thought i would watch that season after seein shatner rape her (it was a shatner mask right?) but i just didnt because its an unappealin show. and my closest friend keeps recommendin me to watch soa and updates me about it (he told me yesterday that theres a new black crew or somethin). but i dont care because the show is just not for me...

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 3:34 p.m. CST

    by yourSTEPDADDY

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 4:52 p.m. CST

    does every thread need 100 posts by yourStepdaddy?

    by RPLocke

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 5:34 p.m. CST

    RE:Peggy/Genma getting rape.

    by Stalkeye

    LOL the rapist did look like he wore a Shatner(Michael Myers) Mask.However, The actor that potrayed the White Supremist/Rapist was none other than Henry Rollins formerly of Black Flag. (An Iconic LA punk band)Check out his Bio and you'll be somewhat amazed at all the shit he's been through and still remains a positive guy. I met him in person and he seems to be down to earth and very cool.<p>That being said, you aight, but what's with hatin on HALO? You never played Reach at least? Damn good game especially the multiplayer.Yes I love MW as well.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 5:50 p.m. CST

    Not Alias, but still fun

    by Lummox JR

    I admit this show wasn't another Alias, but I saw glimpses of what it hopes to be and those glimpses seemed pretty good. All said, there was a total lack of tension in the pilot, but personally I think that was intentional. Whether the show will really last, I can't say. It does seem to lack the feeling that you absolutely need to watch next week, a staple of Abrams' other work, but again that's just based on one episode.

  • Sept. 24, 2010, 6:35 p.m. CST

    stalk

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    i know of mr. rollins (mostly from his appearance in the chase with charlie sheen) and i know that i would not talk shit to him. and halo sucks because ive been seein the exact same guns and aliens since the 1st one... at least with the bond series, you end up gettin grappling hook guns and jetpacks (if i recall correctly)

  • Sept. 25, 2010, 1:46 a.m. CST

    Step, there ARE Jet Packs in HALO Reach

    by Stalkeye

    and like i had previously mentioned, the multiplayer is that fucking good and you're not just shooting aliens but other armored spartans as well. (complete with weapon loadouts, armor customization and abilities.) give it a shot. no pun intended.