Cool News
Mr. Beaks Talks MY SON, MY SON, WHAT HAVE YE DONE? With The Great Werner Herzog!
Werner Herzog is never more engaged as a storyteller than when he is dealing with a fiercely obsessed protagonist. He is drawn to men who dream big, who quest El Dorado or attempt to haul a massive boat over a mountain - and he attempts to honor their ambition by recreating these trials on a grand, sometimes perilous scale. Most filmmakers would treat these individuals as madmen, and portray their self-inflicted struggles as grotesque downward spirals. Herzog has no interest in wallowing. He wants to empathize.
When you're dealing with a protagonist as completely bonkers as Brad McCullum empathizing means following some highly volatile whims - which is probably why MY SON, MY SON, WHAT HAVE YE DONE? met with a mixed critical reception and never received a proper theatrical release. Inspired by the true story of a promising young actor whose obsession with Aeschylus's THE ORESTEIA led him to stab his mother with an antique spear, Herzog and screenwriter Herbert Golder have crafted a bizarrely cathartic tale of matricide (starring a mesmerizing Michael Shannon as the murderous thespian) that involves the intense consideration of flamingos, oatmeal, basketball, and so much else. Though the film starts as a hostage drama (with Willem Dafoe as the cop trying to negotiate McCullum's surrender), Herzog is far more interested in probing the troubled actor's neuroses - and so we're dragged everywhere from the (hauntingly empty) San Diego Convention Center to the Urumbamba River in Peru (a familiar Herzog location).
MY SON, MY SON, WHAT HAVE YE DONE? is a consistently puzzling movie, but so sincerely off its rocker that you can't help but fall in love with it. In my estimation, it's Herzog's most fascinating non-documentary since FITZCARRALDO. So I was thrilled to sit down and briefly chat with the maestro a couple of weeks ago while he did the promotional rounds for the film's DVD release. In the below Q&A, we discuss the film's critical reception, the degree to which Herzog's theater studies influenced his take on the material, the dangers of the Urubamba River, and his thoughts on digital filmmaking. It's a lively little interview. Enjoy.
Mr. Beaks: How are you?
Werner Herzog: I'm working a lot these days because I have some deadlines. The most imminent deadline is Toronto. I have to show up with a finished film.
Mr. Beaks: It always seems like filmmakers are working up to the last minute trying to meet festival deadlines.
Herzog: In this case, two things were clear: the schedule was tight, but at the same time, yes, I could do it. But it means disciplined work. Focused work.
Beaks: And that's never a problem for you.
Herzog: No.
Beaks: It was exactly a year ago that MY SON, MY SON premiered at Venice. Since then, it's screened very infrequently. When the DVD arrived the other day, I felt like it was my first opportunity to see the movie. Given the way it's been treated, I was stunned to find that it's one of my favorite films you've done in the fictional realm.
Herzog: Thank you. Yes, I have the feeling that this is a very, very intense film. I'm completely at home with this movie.
Beaks: Is it frustrating to think that the reaction at last year's festivals helped to keep this from audiences? That a small group of critics limited the distribution of your film?
Herzog: It was not dictated by critics because it had good reviews. What do you mean by critics "dictating"?
Beaks: Looking back at the reviews, most critics certainly preferred BAD LIEUTENANT to this. Several reviewers used that film to dismiss MY SON, MY SON.
Herzog: BAD LIEUTENANT was simply the more popular film because we had Nicolas Cage and Eva Mendes and Val Kilmer. Of course, the focus was more directed to BAD LIEUTENANT. But it does not really matter. I was working fast last year. I released two feature films, and one short film, and a book, and... whatever. (Laughs) I just can't help it. Sometimes, it happens that two of my films at the same time are competing for attention. And what you're referring to is simply the attention that was higher for obvious reasons focused on BAD LIEUTENANT. I don't mind. It's okay. I can live with it. The film will have a long life. Besides, we should not forget that releasing a film today is the real problematic side of filmmaking. It has become very expensive. In the shift of media, there is a gray zone, and nobody really knows how to grapple with it. Television is somehow shrinking, the print media is shrinking movie releases. There will be different and new outlets, but we do not know yet where it will stabilize.
Beaks: My first viewing of your film was on television. It was a good presentation - as good as I can afford, that is. How do you feel about so many non-mainstream films getting their first widespread distribution via DVD or On Demand? They're rarely being seen in their intended medium.
Herzog: That is correct. The only thing that we could hope for is that we'll have much larger screens at home and very good sound systems. However, it will not replace the experience of sitting in the theater with other people you do not know, who share the fear and the laughter and the excitement together with you. I keep saying that the mother of all battles is the theaters. The cinemas.
Beaks: You said you felt very at home with MY SON, MY SON. Is this because it brings you back to your early days of studying theater?
Herzog: But I have no affinity to theater. That's very strange. I have never staged theater. I've staged operas, but that's an entirely different world. I never liked theater. I probably have not seen more than four or maybe five theatrical productions in my entire life. I gave up in dismay at a fairly early age - maybe twenty-five or twenty-six. Since then, I've never seen a theater performance.
Beaks: Why is that?
Herzog: It has many, and probably too complex reasons to explain here in a short interview. A simple answer would be I have difficulties to believe any actor who appears on stage. I do not believe a word they are uttering. Whether it's a good performance or a bad performance, whether the drama text is good or lousy, I just cannot connect. It's a gap of credibility for me.
Beaks: Do you find that actors are more in the moment in front of a camera than on the stage?
Herzog: Again, it's too complex to argue about it and grapple with it, but, in general, I can say I have no affinity to theater whatsoever. And the staging of what you see in MY SON, MY SON, WHAT HAVE YE DONE of an ancient Greek drama, or part of an Ancient Greek drama, was done by a theater troupe in San Diego, a wonderful group of young actors who only stage Ancient Greek drama. I admire them, how they are struggling and surviving and doing things. Of course, there were some guidelines I gave them, some very general guidelines, but the staging of the theater production was their staging.
Beaks: I was just in San Diego for Comic Con, so I was struck by your use of the convention center. For some reason, I found myself wondering if that might be a subculture you'd like to examine via documentary. What's your methodology for tackling a documentary?
Herzog: There's actually no methodology. (Laughs)
Beaks: (Laughing) None at all. You just arrive at these things randomly.
Herzog: (Laughs) To confess a truth, the projects are stumbling into me wildly. And it's obvious, it's absolutely clear to me without a moment's hesitation that this should be a documentary more than a feature film. But I have to caution because my documentaries have a great affinity to my feature films. Documentaries, in my case, are sometimes staged, scripted or fantasized. I have a simple way to explain it: they are many times feature films in disguise.
Beaks: Documentaries are often about exploration. Do you essentially know what you'd like to say at the outset?
Herzog: Very often I don't have the faintest idea. When I went to Antarctica, you cannot scout. You are sent only once. It's so expensive to have someone down in Antarctica for a single day. Very expensive. So you are sent down, and you know six weeks later you have to come back with a movie. I had no idea whatsoever. I had some basic visual ideas, but that was about it. And I knew I was not going to make another movie about fluffy penguins. (Laughs) In many cases - for example, with GRIZZLY MAN - I jumped into it so fast, so abruptly from almost one day to the next, there was almost no time for preproduction. I just went into it with the confidence that I would do it right.
Beaks: MY SON, MY SON afforded you the opportunity to return to Peru. It was nice to see you filming on that river again.
Herzog: Exactly. The scene of AGUIRRE: THE WRATH OF GOD was shot only 300 feet further down river. The opening, early scenes.
Beaks: Has the river changed in any way?
Herzog: It has changed. It's strange. Although it's the same location, it changes. But what does not change is my love for the jungle, my love for Peru. In a way, I may have become a secret, honorary citizen. In my soul, I feel like that. Of course I am not a citizen of Peru.
One thing I should also explain about Peru: it was not the intention of the screenplay to go to Peru. The real murderer, Mark Yavorsky, whom I met briefly once after he had spent eight-and-a-half years in a maximum security detention center for the criminally insane. He had travelled to Pakistan, became a Muslim, and came back completely changed. That's how somehow, in a vague, strange, inexplicable way, his paranoia started. We were deliberating should we go to Northwestern Pakistan, to the Indus River. And we came very quickly to the conclusion it wasn't going to be prudent to have a movie star and camera, a high-profile target out there in Pakistan. It's just not prudent. People think I'm a man of blind bravado. No, I'm not. I'm very, very aware of dangers. What is significant, and I would like to point it out, in sixty films that I made not a single actor ever got hurt. Not one.
Beaks: Not significantly injured.
Herzog: Not hurt at all. Well, very slightly. A few bruises. Crew members, yes. And I got hurt. But actors were always protected to me. Prudence. Being circumspect. Being aware of dangers, and handling dangers very well. So it was clear we were not going to go to the northern part of Pakistan. We said, "What's the next most ferocious river I know." And I said, "Yes, Peru!" Rio Urubamba. Near Machu Picchu.
Beaks: Is it still very treacherous?
Herzog: Treacherous in what way?
Beaks: Perhaps I shouldn't say "treacherous", as I've never been there, but it does seem, on film at least, to be very rugged and inhospitable.
Herzog: It is, yes. You have to be very careful. The cinematographer was only held by a rope. The stones are slippery. If you slip and fall in the river, you will disappear.
At a much lower level of the river, two or three months before we arrived, there were two young men who were on a fairly flat rock. They smoked pot and became somehow oblivious of the danger; they started to slide and slipped into the water. They were never found. Nothing left of them. You have to be careful. You have to be on the alert.
Beaks: How was it shooting with the Red camera down there?
Herzog: Not easy. The Red camera is not built for jungles. (Laughs) It's more a studio camera. And, of course, when you have to do things spontaneously, the Red camera is basically like a huge computer; it needs to reboot itself for the first four-and-a-half minutes before you can press a button. Now if you know this, you can organize yourself and prepare yourself to shoot with the Red. I'm still a man of celluloid, of pushing the button and the camera starts rolling.
Beaks: Celluloid for practical or aesthetic reasons?
Herzog: I'm not nostalgic about celluloid, but celluloid is still of superior quality to any format in high definition digital shooting.
Beaks: It did, however, feel as if this camera allowed you to evocatively capture that hazy, dreamlike Southern California daylight.
Herzog: It captures an artificial, metropolitan, sort of deep night in New York City at three in the morning. I'll have to take a good look at it again. What I'm trying to say is that I'm absolutely not nostalgic; I'm just going for quality. Of course, everything is going to shift to digital. Well, not everything. A lot will shift to digital. I like to edit digitally because I can edit as fast as I'm thinking. MY SON, MY SON, WHAT HAVE YE DONE was delivered in its final cut a week after shooting was finished.
Beaks: The final cut?
Herzog: The locked-in picture. However, we edited while we were on location. I wanted to deliver the film almost instantaneously. The only thing that was missing was the music and mixing and technical procedures. But the film in its narrative shape was delivered five days after principal photography had ended.
Beaks: So you don't need that extra time filmmakers often require. Typically, there's principal photography, and then there's a lengthy period of editing.
Herzog: Well, that's suspicious to me. It shouldn't be a year. Those people normally don't know what they are doing, or they have no clear vision what they're doing; they're fooling around and creating twenty-two parallel versions and can't decide. That's the danger of it. But usually, yes, you would need a year if you have a story with a lot of material and great complexity. Yes, why not. But I'm somebody who tries to also think in economical terms. I want to produce a film that doesn't cost too much, where the costs are contained so that the film can become profitable fairly quickly. A wonderful example would be MY SON, MY SON, WHAT HAVE YE DONE?, and a very good example is BAD LIEUTENANT. I delivered the film two days under schedule, and $2.6 million under budget - which is unheard of in Hollywood. But I enjoyed it a lot because I earned myself a bonus.
Beaks: That's always a good incentive.
Herzog: But let's put money aside. I think it's a general attitude that filmmakers... I hardly see any colleague who is aware of finances, and how money can be wasted, thrown out the window very quickly.
Beaks: Getting back to this idea of a lengthy editing period. There are many young filmmakers who prefer postproduction to principal photography. They "shoot for the edit". You see a lot of this on YouTube.
Herzog: And a lot of the films that you see on YouTube are not good - with a few exceptions. One of these exceptions is "Plastic Bag" by Ramin Bahrani. It sticks out. This high-caliber of filmmaking immediately resonates; there's something unheard of or unseen of. I like to be supportive of anyone who is a young filmmaker. Ramin is one of those. He has made three feature films out of nowhere within only two years. When he approached me, "Could you speak the voice of the plastic bag," I said, "Let me have a quick look at the footage." And I immediately said, "Yes, this is worthwhile." Or when Harmony Korine wanted me to act in JULIEN DONKEY BOY or MISTER LONELY, of course I said, "Yes."
Beaks: Because you respected his previous films?
Herzog: Sometimes, it's just the person. Someone with a great, great creative intensity and a new voice, a new vision. Whatever I can do to assist I will do.
MY SON, MY SON, WHAT HAVE YE DONE? hits BD/DVD on September 14th, and it is highly recommended.
Faithfully submitted,
Mr. Beaks
-
+ Expand All
-
But I love his work
-
that is
-
The only thing that we could hope for is that we'll have much larger screens at home and very good sound systems. However, it will not replace the experience of sitting in the theater with other people you do not know, who share the fear and the laughter and the excitement together with you................Along with 300 commercials for coca cola and the Army.
-
The guy cranks out eclectic, unique films on a regular basis in an industry that is effectively hostile to anyone with his sort of ambition. I don't know how he does it--but carry on, you crazy German!
-
at the moment. Can't get enough of his stuff. Although I was a little dissapointed with this, was excpecting more from Lynch and Herzog.
-
It makes the most mundane seem interesting.
-
Midnight chaos. Eternity chaos. Noon chaos. Morning chaos. Midnight chaos. Eternity chaos. Noon chaos. Morning chaos. Midnight chaos. Eternity chaos. Noon chaos. Morning chaos.
-
not read it yet, but I read somewhere Herzog met with the real killer from this movie, and the guy apparently had a shrine to Aguirre in his house, Herzog left. If it's a true story, when you see this movie you'll see how eerie that is.
-
One of my favourite filmmakers, period, and among my five or so favourite living directors. He's criminally underappreciated, and weirdly so, because I had expected him to get a boost from the relatively popular GRIZZLY MAN, RESCUE DAWN and PORT OF CALL NEW ORLEANS. The Antarctica documentary he briefly mentions in the interview, ENCOUNTERS AT THE END OF THE WORLD, is very good: it veers wildly from topic to topic, yet still manages to present a cohesive whole. It's certainly not a typical documentary, though; like many of Herzog's films, it's more about delivering a unique experience than adhering to strict narrative rules and conventions.
-
from Entourage? where am i?
-
Hmmn don't know about that one. As much as I enjoyed My Son.. Cobra Verde and maybe even Bad Lieutenant were better than this I thought.
-
really is great, like most of his work it's hypnotic, I even looked into work down there after watching it.
-
with fucking mork from orc in it?
-
I saw this at TIFF last year and I can't say anything but that this is easily one of the worst movies I have ever seen. Complete nonsense that is so absolutely pretentious you can't help but hate it with every fiber in your being. It's just terrible.
-
The dude is really on a role. I first took note of him after his fucking insane performance in "Bug," and he's continued his momentum since then with great turns in stuff like Before the Devil Knows You're Dead, Revolutionary Road and The Runaways. He deserves more notoriety for his talent, and I think he'll probably get it once "Boardwalk Empire" hits big. As for Herzog, I've only seen a small portion of his resume, but every single thing I've seen of his has been, at the very least, highly interesting. I'm not a big documentary watcher, but the ones of his that I've caught had me immersed. And I thought his Bad Lieutenant was one of the funnest, balls-to-the-wall movies I've seen in awhile. I'll have to Netflix "My Son, My Son."
-
Seriously though his movies are always well worth a watch.
-
WTF?! That funny fucker who was battling cancer- dies in a fucking car accident. His HBO routine back in the late 90's I think was fucking g-o-l-d. Talking about the stupidity behind people punching sharks because they dont want the sharks to bite them. Having to teach his daughters boyfriend how to fuck her, issues were he cant cum more than a drop. That dude died?!?! in a fucking car wreck, after fighting fucking cancers ass
-
If Herzog has directed it, I have watched it, and if will direct it in future, I will be watching it. Herzog be thy name, deliver me from blandess, forever and ever. Amen.
And, to coin a euphemism that isn't really a euphemism, Michael Shannon has character actor's eyes. He must see himself on DVD covers and posters and think, 'Yup! It was either this, a wizened 18th Century hermit, or madness'.
-
Terrific entertainer gone too soon.
-
that was a kick ass interview... Long Live Herzog!!!!
-
Can anyone think of a more bad-ass director working in cinema today than Werner Herzog? I want this guy to narrate the story of my life.
-
response and not hear his distinctive voice.
-
I also preferred COBRA VERDE and BAD LIEUTENANT: POCNO, but definitely liked this one. I was gonna cry foul that no one has been hurt on one of his sets, since I distinctly remember reading about a guy who hacked his arm (or leg? can't remember) off with a machete after being bitten by a snake. But I guess he was just a hired hand. Also, didn't Kinski rap some actor over the head with his sword during the filming of AGUIRRE? The guy still has a scar, it's covered in MY BEST FIEND. Good interview, and it typical Herzog fashion, several of his answers at the beginning are of the prickly "no, you're wrong" variety.
-
I also think RESCUE DAWN is better, forgot about that one. I'd put MY SON MY SON WHAT HAVE YE DONE on par with INVINCIBLE and WHERE THE GREEN ANTS DREAM, which is to say really good but not quite in his top tier.
-
I like most of Herzog's stuff but this was just too impenetrable for me. Really a hallmark of the worst kind of self-indulgent shit that "art house" cinema churns out.
-
Watch Cobra Verde and pay attention to the scene where they throw the kidnapped and bound Kinski and his helper off the litter. This guy, not Kinski, almost breaks his neck. The actors around them even stop acting for a moment. I think I watched this scene twenty times and I am still wondering how this guy ever stood up again. Anyway, Herzog is a genius!
-
When the ship is going down the rapids in Fitzcarraldo, some of the indians where shot with arrows by another tribe, one in the neck and leg.
-
and it is awful.
almost as bad as Inland Empire.
Why the hell did Herzog agree to direct this garbage? -
No negativity? No posts bitching about Herzog? Where's RPLocke? Not that anyone can bitch about Herzog, the guy's a fucking legend - and by far the most "interesting" director working today.
-
such a haunting movie to me. Seeing that hillbilly world made me cringe. I have no doubts that towns and people like that exist in 2010.
As for My Son, My Son , I was really excited to see this after seeing the trailor for it but it seemed to come and go at the local arthouse in a week. Animas, you're scaring me with your Inland Empire comparison. I love Lynch but hated that movie with a passion. -
"SVEAR TO MEEEE!! YOU VILL NEFER LISZEN TO ZIS TAPE!!' Cue crocodile tears from a woman clearly loving her 15 minutes of fame at the expense of one dead innocent woman and one dead mentally ill man. Herzog, fuck off. Wouldn't normally let such a thing bother me but it struck me as such a hack piece of work, so low rent an attempt at audience manipulation that I genuinely can't get behind the guys work anymore.
-
In the book CRONENBERG BY CRONENBERG he says he has very difficulty with suspension of disbelief in a theater. Funny enough, i also share that same problem with those two, i don't go to the theater because i also have a huge problem suspending my disbelief in a theater seeing actors in an bovious set trying to make the story set in soemthing that it's not. One of the reasons i rather went with movies instead.
-
I don't think he ever made a bad or weak movie ever in his very extensive filmmography. Not a single bad or weak movie. Think about it. And he is very famous for being very budget conscious since his earlier days. He aalways makes his movies underbudget and underschedule, even his infamous movie FRITZCARRALDO, which everybody assumes was a money pitt and an overblown schedule, when in fact almost everything in that movie run smoothly, as smoothy as any movie can go with Klaus Kinski in it and when a ship breaks lose in rapids for real (Herzog just kept filming, anyway).
-
Herzog hates being called a german. He calls hismelf a bavarian. It's a long story, but really, bavarians are very resentful of the germans form the north and vice versa. It's said that most germasn from the north can't compreend the bavarian dialect, it's almost as if a different form of german. And Herzog hates germany. He loves his native bavaria but hates germany.
-
Herzog's "documentaries," like his feature films, are open to interpretation. In my opinion, "audience manipulation" is one of the things GRIZZLY MAN is *about*: the way different selections of Treadwell's ramblings (and how they are presented) can lead one to radically different conclusions. Herzog himself isn't consistent with his commentary on Treadwell, it changes almost from scene to scene. That's intentional, I think, particularly since one of the videos shows Treadwell pretending to be alone for the camera (= *his* audience at home), whereas we can see that his girlfriend is there with him.
Readers Talkback
User Login
Top Talkbacks
- Whitney Houston 1963 - 2012 -- 209 total posts 207 posts
- AVENGERS enemy revealed as pink boardgame pieces... You might suffer some form of elation... SPOILERS!!! -- 160 total posts 97 posts
- There's a STAR TREK video game that is going to lead into JJ's STAR TREK 2 apparently... -- 144 total posts 77 posts
- Here's The Red Band Trailer For Drafthouse Films' THE FP! -- 68 total posts 68 posts
- New JUDGE DREDD post production footage pops up -- 67 total posts 67 posts
- Does ‘SNL’ Rhyme With ‘Deschanel’?? Learn Which SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE Vet Hosts After Sexy Zooey!! -- 64 total posts 60 posts
- To Commemorate The 3D Release Of STAR WARS EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE, George Lucas Wants You To Know...Greedo Shoots First!! -- 480 total posts 55 posts
- HANNA's Saoirse Ronan to boss around seven little people -- 53 total posts 50 posts
- Friday Brings SWEEPS DAY NINE!! Gab Here About Tonight’s FRINGE!! Plus Einstein on TIM, Wiig On PORTLANDIA, MAHER, CLONE, GIFTED, GRIMM, SPARTACUS, SUPERNATURAL, GOLD RUSH And More!! -- 118 total posts 32 posts
- SPACE 2099!! -- 182 total posts 27 posts