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‘Let's Go Someplace Darker!!’
Sunday Brings MAD MEN 4.7!!

Published at: Sept. 5, 2010, 10:28 p.m. CST by hercules

I am – Hercules!! Last week Duck drunkenly heckled at the Clios, Pete asked Ken if he could do as told, Peggy got naked, Don grabbed Joan’s hand under the table and introduced himself as Dick, and SCDP hired Jane Sterling’s cousin. “Don has stolen someone’s idea which, for me, is a new low for him,” allows series mastermind Matt Weiner. “The joy of the episode is realizing at some level that Roger doesn’t know if he hired [Don] at all.” And “Mad Men” won its third best-drama Emmy in a row. AMC says of tonight’s installment, titled “The Suitcase”:
A deadline disrupts Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce.
The first Clay/Liston fight took place Feb. 25, 1964. The second, the one Don and the gang are talking about, on May 25, 1965. Despite all the references to “Clay,” Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr. had already changed his name to Muhammad Ali at this point in history. Episode titles: 4.1 Public Relations 4.2 Christmas Comes But Once A Year 4.3 The Good News 4.4 The Rejected 4.5 The Chrysanthemum and the Sword 4.6 Waldorf Stories 4.7 The Suitcase 4.8 The Summer Man 4.9 The Beautiful Girls 4.10 Hands and Knees 4.11 Chinese Wall 4.12 Blowing Smoke 4.13 Tomorrowland 10 p.m. Sunday. AMC.
Follow Herc on Twitter!! Follow Evil Herc on Twitter!!
Blu Dark Knight: $8.99!!
2 In Blu!!

Readers Talkback

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  • Sept. 5, 2010, 4:35 a.m. CST

    I'm guessing it's Roger

    by Xiphos_2

    that get's lose with the Jew blast.Seems like something he might say.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 4:58 a.m. CST

    Regarding Ali's name change

    by growltiger

    Ali may have changed his name before the second fight but there was a fair amount of push back to that change at the time. Those recalcitrant to the change still referred to the champ as Clay at the time of the re-match and, frankly, for a few years more. (That is if memory serves.)

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 5:34 a.m. CST

    Watch that clip...

    by Thrillhouse77

    And tell me that this show isn't a shitload of fun. How anyone could find this writing "boring" is beyond me. <p> I could watch these characters shoot the shit all day.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 5:52 a.m. CST

    I'm really trying...

    by HoldMyFuckingWatch

    with Mad Men. Watched season 1 and got absolutely nothing from it and now I'm battering through number 2.<P><P>Its just so cold and soulless. Does anyone actually ENJOY it? I won't deny that its well made, acted and looks nice - but there's almost no human factor to any of it.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 5:53 a.m. CST

    xiphos_2

    by Executor

    Watch clip. Then rethink your post.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 6:16 a.m. CST

    "Not available in your location"

    by HoldMyFuckingWatch

    Goddammit...

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 6:38 a.m. CST

    If You Have To TRY HoldnyWatch

    by Crow3711

    Then just stop. It's not for you. It's not cold or soulless. Just not for you, clearly. If you weren't enraptured by the end of s1, you never will be. You clearly can't understand just how much I really ENJOY this show

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 8:20 a.m. CST

    Imagine How We'd React Today If A Famous Athlete Went "Muhammed"

    by Crow3711

    Fox news would freak the fuck out and call him an unamerican terrorist, and everyone else would follow suit. Imagine how much worse it must have been back then. No rich white men were gonna walk around calling him Muhammed. It just wasn't going to happen.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Don may start to Interest Joan.

    by cookylamoo

    Now that he needs mothering. That's Joan's kind of man.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:37 a.m. CST

    Gotta love how they keep putting don in the hat.

    by InActionMan

    He is slowly becoming an anachronism. <P> I think the writers have a plan (Maybe they're Cylons). <P> We start the series rooting for Don and hating Pete. By the end of the series we will be rooting for Pete and hating Don.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:53 a.m. CST

    I don't know InActionMan

    by Gleemonex

    I didn't start the series hating Pete. Sure, he's a little rude and might come off as insensitive, but I just chalked that up to having been raised in an alternate hell dimension. <p> I totally agree though that Don was destined to be an anachronism. He represents an American ideology that will be nearly dead by the series end. The tragedy is that it will have been advertising culture that helped kill it.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:08 a.m. CST

    Doesn't have to be disrespectful, either

    by BizarroJerry

    After someone becomes famous under one name and suddenly changes it, I can see people still using his old name. Doesn't have to have any meaning behind it other than not really caring what some crazy celebrity does.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:21 a.m. CST

    ^^i'm inclinded to agree.

    by Timahh

    case in point, chad "ochocinco", sure something like that isn't the same as changing your name for religious and personal beliefs, but it's still kinda the same. "that guy can put whatever he wants on the back of his jersey(or robe) but it doesn't mean i'll call him that." Also see, courtney cox-arquette.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Madison Avenue changes

    by awardgiver

    I remember on a documentary about the history of drug use in America, the 1960s saw Madison Avenue trying to keep up with the times and resorting to psychedelic advertising. Will Don take LSD in a couple of seasons?

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Ali was a Marketing Genius

    by InActionMan

    There is an apocryphal story about Ali. He used to watch wrestling and saw that Gorgeous George was one of wrestling's biggest stars. Ali also noticed that George was not a very good wrestler. He was old and fat. <P> Gorgeous George's shtick was that he was vain, effeminate and possibly homosexual. The wrestling fans hated George but, they would line up hoping to see him get his ass kicked. <P> Ali was a great boxer but, he knew that was not enough to be a star and a box office draw. He adapted George's "I'm so pretty." act while still appearing very masculine. He knew white racists would line up to see that "arrogant negro" get his ass beat. Ali of course disappointed them but, most of his fights were promoted as the "Good" deferential Negro vs. the "Bad" arrogant Negro. (Don't jump all over my ass for using the word "Negro" simple using the nomenclature of the time.). <P> What's interesting about the scene Herc posted is that Don can see what Ali is doing but, he still is enough of a racist to want to see Ali get beat. $800.00 was a shit ton of money in 1965.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:25 a.m. CST

    In Action Man

    by Timahh

    I think it's gonna be the opposite. Sure, the people who "root" for characters with morals and what not will start to stray that way, but mark my words, the final season will be Don and everyone from his era clinging to the liferaft as the Harry's, Pete's and Peggy's of the world are trying to cut them loose. Not sure I'd root for the guy doing the cutting.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:26 a.m. CST

    "Enough of a racist"?

    by BizarroJerry

    I mean, just cuz someone "realized" what Ali's schtick was all about, doesn't mean you still couldn't consider him an arrogant blowhard. From some older folks, I've learned that some just considered Ali obnoxious, no matter the race.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:27 a.m. CST

    I'D like to see the series go to 1975 or 76

    by InActionMan

    Don has become a total "Leisure Suit Larry" that young girls laugh at in the disco. He dies of a heart attack all coked up in the hot tub at "Plato's Retreat".

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:30 a.m. CST

    Bizzaro Jerry

    by InActionMan

    Yea racist. I don't think the scene of Harry and that new little weasel calling each other "Cheap Jews" was not put there without a reason. It was meant to highlight the casual bigotry that was still common at that time.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:35 a.m. CST

    Timahh

    by Madbomber

    Harry will be on the life raft with Don. Everything about the man suggests that, while he seems to have taken to his Head of Media job, he still clings to the old ways of Don, Roger, and Bert.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11 a.m. CST

    I Enjoyed The Commentary On The "Spoiler" Community Last Week

    by Crow3711

    With Harry killing time by ruining the next few weeks of that soap opera for them, can't remember the name. My mother also thought it was great because she remembered the show and what a big deal it was. Like the lost of the 60s. I thought that was a really clever way to comment on the modern Internet spoiler fad. The guys wanted to hear it, and then were surprised by the twists, and then disappointed that it was now ruined for them. Add to that all of Harrys name droppe and Lane making fun of him for it, and you've got a really charming, smart scene. Imagine if admen of today or to read the scripts for lost a few weeks ahead o time. Can you imagine a creative showrunner allowing that? Handing their secretive scripts over to some bumbling ad man. Yeesh.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:18 a.m. CST

    So much to discuss

    by dukeroberts

    Crow- The show was Peyton Place. It was huge around that time. Ali- How many people called Prince "The Symbol" or whatever when he changed his name to one? Not too many. The Mad Men era's casual racism might possibly have had something to do with it in Ali's case though. That casual racism back then might today be called "racial insensitivity". They just made off-handed remarks, they were not exactly stating any belief that Ali or Jews were sub-human or inferior in any way. In fact, if you remember Pete's comment about Lassie a couple of weeks ago, and his inroads into targeting advertising to blacks, we know he's a little open-minded about race. I have seen no other characters show contempt or hatred for any other race or ethnicity, with the one exception being Roger. In his case, I find that understandable. Finally, foreshadowing- Pete will die young. "It runs in my family." Uh oh.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:48 a.m. CST

    Sorry, HoldMyFuckingWatchI could have saved you the trouble of p

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    it's a soap and it sucks. <p> it's a soap and I love it <p> it's not a soap <p> it's overrated <p> it's the best show on TV <p> Dexter is better <p> The Wire was better <p> Lost sucked <p> Betty is a piece of shit <p> it's boring <p> it's superficial <p> I can't get into it even though I tried <p> there are no likable characters <p> why isn't there a TB for [insert show here]?

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Prince's symbol vs Clay/Ali

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I don't think that's a reasonable comparison. I mean, a fucking symbol, for the love of god. <p>Also I am sure Ali's mouth running had nothing to do with Gorgeous George and everything to do with pumping himself up and trying to get his opponents off their game. <p>And of course he was a great enough boxer to be a star based on that alone. Are you kidding?

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 12:14 p.m. CST

    I've Never Liked Ali That Much...

    by Rebeck2

    I grew up when he was in his last gasp but still going, and I know that he was just doing schtick, but it was still obnoxious. Did anyone see that documentary about the way he treated Frazier before their bout in Manila? I mean the guy was just a plain dick a lot of the time. I understand and respect that he refused to go to Vietnam, but honestly, being a great boxer doesn't make you a hero. The way people conflate athletic prowess with heroism in this country is ridiculous. Also look up his interview with Parkinson on Youtube - he was just an angry fuck. Now, granted, a black man had the right to be plenty angry at the time, but that's exactly why I think George Foreman is much more of a hero, because he managed to tranform that anger into an upbeat and positive outlook on life. And hey, the tray catches the grease. Uhm...what was I talking about again?

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 12:20 p.m. CST

    I Think Harry Made An...

    by Rebeck2

    Anti-semitic joke a couple episodes ago when he talked about people running out of gas on the bridge, "I think you know who I mean". It was such a subtle throwaway that I didn't catch it until I watched the show for like the third time. That's the thing about the show, it is so packed with information it really rewards repeat viewing.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 12:27 p.m. CST

    PS>

    by Rebeck2

    That's why stupid people don't like the show.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 12:40 p.m. CST

    Thunderbolt

    by dukeroberts

    The point I was making was about people being reluctant to call a celebrity by a new name, regardless of the reason. Some people caled called Prince "The Artist" or "The Artist Formerly Known As Prince", but most people still called him "Prince". Chad Ochocinco is still Chad Johnson. Cat Stevens (I can't remember what he calls himself now) is still Cat Stevens. I will leave you with the words of Arsenio Hall dressed as an old black man in a barber shop, "His mama called him Clay. I'm a call him Clay."

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 12:41 p.m. CST

    madbomber

    by Timahh

    fair point about harry, i wonder if there is a third option there for him. He is riding the television straight to the top of his profession, they've made that pretty clear. Now that we are talking about it, i realize that they are already setting Pete up as beginning to despise the old way of business. And with peggy having a new social epiphany every episode, i wonder if that young vs. old clash is coming sooner than later.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 12:47 p.m. CST

    The Rock Will Always Be The Rock

    by Crow3711

    No matter how famous he gets or how prevalent this Dwayne Johnson character becomes. Everyone knows he's The fucking Rock. Pretty much the best example we've got.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 12:58 p.m. CST

    This thread is currently number 6

    by InActionMan

    Can it be brought to number one with actual intelligent discussion. I know we could spam it or turn it into the "MadPedalback" but I would like to keep it on topic. <P> Only 454 posts to go.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 1:09 p.m. CST

    just noticed the title for the finale..

    by Timahh

    is mad men going to the lame TGIF ABC route and doing a finale in disney world? God i hope so, it worked well for Boy Meets World/

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Would even the tickets say "Clay"?

    by Voice O. Reason

    Seems like the promoters would want to keep him happy and advertise the match using his new name.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Timahh

    by Thrillhouse77

    I would actually be totally gung-ho for that, if we get an appearance from Walt Disney, possibly getting frozen in carbonite.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 1:39 p.m. CST

    Not likely

    by dukeroberts

    Walt Disney was cremated. His ashes are interred at Forest Lawn Cemetary.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Walt Disney was cremated?

    by lock67ca

    Yes, that's what they want everyone to think. Lol!

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 1:53 p.m. CST

    Thrillhouse77,

    by Timahh

    Could be cool, i heard he was molded to the wall Han Solo style, in the top floor of Cinderella's castle. Seeing that could be the real wakeup call that don needs to defeat the empire. Wait what are we talking about? Also you need to change you're name to thrillho.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 1:58 p.m. CST

    HoldMyFuckingWatch

    by hst666

    Push through Season 2. I can totally understand Season 1 not moving you as the heart of the show is the women and in particular Peggy. She really gets to develop as the series goes on. The Don Draper show does get boring in and of itself. It's the other characters that are actually interesting.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 1:58 p.m. CST

    dukeroberts,

    by Timahh

    i bet you also think their's wind on the moon....and that Obama is "really" the president. pfft....sheep.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 1:58 p.m. CST

    grr, should be there's

    by Timahh

    my kingdom for an edit function.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 2:13 p.m. CST

    Honestly though, what year is it Aicn

    by Crow3711

    I know your talkback sections rule the Internet and are literally, from what I've seen, the only site that actually has significant, continued forum discussions on every story (don't go to chud, so I don't know about there, but discussion on latonoreview, etc is death. Just empty. And as such, I have no doubt you are afraid to alter anything about the tb format, that it might kill the site (and knowing the aicn frequenters, it legitimately might they are such children) but really, you gotta update this at least a little. It's still the best format, all on one page, etc. But it needs edit so badly. How much efffort and money could it possibly to add edit functionality and a few other common features for modern Internet forums? I'm not attacking or complaining. This system is still better than any other site I know of, and the population rules. But it could be so much better without making it worse. My biggest fear is when you finally do update it's a huge drastic change to everything, and that would kill the site. Don't do that. Keep it the same and add a few simple changes. It would reinvigorate the site, IMO. Of course, you all hear this everyday and never respond, explain, or change anything, so this was pointless. But realy, I'd appreciate just hearing why it's never updated. I won't even call the reason Bs or complain. Just want to hear why. Is it money?

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 2:18 p.m. CST

    the show needs a jack davis or stan freberg character

    by brabon300

    giants of the industry...and both totally insane

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 2:24 p.m. CST

    people rooted against ali for many reasons

    by brabon300

    the least being his race<p>i remember wanting fraizer to beat the crap out of him, because of the way he dissed fraizer<p>years later, i came to understand that it was all a part of the game, and that ali was a brilliant tactician...but i didnt know it at the time<p>there hasnt been a showman in boxing like ali ever...the man is a genius

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 2:24 p.m. CST

    His mother named him Clay

    by SuperXY

    I'm calling him Clay.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 2:37 p.m. CST

    Executor

    by Xiphos_2

    I don't watch any clips before I watch the show. I like to go in fresh and not spoiled in any way.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 3:29 p.m. CST

    Spoiler!?

    by InActionMan

    A whole bunch of spoilery pics from Jon-Hamm.org <P> http://www.jon-hamm.org/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=700&page=1

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 4:08 p.m. CST

    Re: Tommorrowland

    by Timahh

    after thinking about this for a bit, i realized neither DisneyWorld nor Disneyland was open for business at this point in time. However, didn't tomorrowland start out as an exhibit at the new york world's fair? I'm seeing a moving and dramatic "carousel of progress" scene in our near future.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 4:10 p.m. CST

    another thought regarding last weeks episode

    by Timahh

    Betty is really being turned into the succubus/delilah of this show. Everything we've seen of Don pre-Betty is much more optimistic and overall happy Don. He smiled more in those 5 minutes from his first meetings with Don than probably the entire season combined.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 4:31 p.m. CST

    Timahh

    by ShabbyBlue

    Disneyland opened in July of 1955. It would have been in operation for over 10 years come the end of Mad Men season 3. Tomorrowland was definitely part of Disneyland from the very beginning of the park.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 5:07 p.m. CST

    Ali WAS the greast of all time.

    by Dreadlock Holmes

    It's just alo of white people didn't like him because the saw him as the "uppity" negro. Rebeck2 pretty much confirmed it when he said he preferred docile George Forman to "obnoxious" Ali. It's why guys like Terrell Owens or Isiah Thomas weren't liked much. Too uppity whereas with with athletes who act the same way are considered dominant and confident. Madmen is a good show by the way.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Thought the talkback was for South Park

    by sunwukong86

    then i scrolled down

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 5:17 p.m. CST

    A lot of Ali's public image was an act

    by ShabbyBlue

    The arrogant bravado and trash-talking was his brilliant way of making himself stand out among other boxers and getting people in the seats at his fights. As someone else posted above, he borrowed a lot of it from what some wrestlers did (and still do), with exagerrated vanity to make the audience want to come see them get their asses kicked. Andy Kaufman did something similar with his inter-gender wrestling act, playing the "villain" to get the audience stirred up so that they'd keep coming back to see more.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 5:17 p.m. CST

    fair enough shabby,

    by Timahh

    I knew disneyworld wouldn't have made the cut, and for some reason i assumed disneyland was the younger of the two. My carousel of progress finale is still intact tho.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 5:20 p.m. CST

    Walt dies in 1966, and Disneyworld opened in the early 70s

    by ShabbyBlue

    I wonder if they'll address Walt's death next season, even if it's only in passing reference.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 5:26 p.m. CST

    Hmmm

    by HoldMyFuckingWatch

    I wasn't trying to raise one show above another. <P><P>Not even in the slightest. I watch stuff because, you know: I like tv.<P><P>I'll definitely keep watching if it improves some (The Wire never really had me till season 2) and I really hope I begin to enjoy it. Especially after hearing so much in its praise.<P><P>Thunderbolt Ross, you are an asshole. I praised most aspects; I only said it didn't click with me. God forbid.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 5:26 p.m. CST

    Typos. Tired. The rest...

    by HoldMyFuckingWatch

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 5:31 p.m. CST

    Dreadlock Holmes

    by ShelbKis

    People don't like Isiah Thomas because he's a complete and utter asshole.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 5:46 p.m. CST

    ShelbKis...

    by Dreadlock Holmes

    I meant when Isiah was a player. GM Isiah is a whole other story...

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 6:31 p.m. CST

    Dreadlock Asshole

    by Rebeck2

    Thanks for calling me a racist. Fuck you very much. Ali WAS obnoxious, it has nothing to do with race. I would say the same thing about John McEnroe or Bobby Riggs. You got me, you caught me - I don't like assholes. Or racists like you.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 8:19 p.m. CST

    HoldMyFuckingWatch

    by cwsimpatico

    I didn't love the show until season 3. So keep watching.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 8:34 p.m. CST

    Over here in Cincinnati...

    by Grammaton Cleric

    ...we were calling Chad Johnson "Ochocinco" way before he officially changed it...so I guess the transition was pretty easy around here.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 8:57 p.m. CST

    betty flashback scene....

    by celebritydave

    its coming.. one where shes getting molested. trust me. graphic, groundbreaking tv.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:04 p.m. CST

    That dollar bill line got me

    by terry1978

    Caught me off guard, and I laughed, mostly because I couldn't believe they used it as a throwaway line.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:09 p.m. CST

    Samsonite

    by Jared

    I liked the commercial. Of course Don hated it.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:10 p.m. CST

    Anyone get a chuckled outta that heavy-footed bitch

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    walking pass the secretaries desks after Don went into his office, just now?<p>Talk about a woman walking very unsexy!<p>EPIC FAIL lady! Whomever you are! LOL

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:15 p.m. CST

    Funny thing about racism

    by BizarroJerry

    How we all watch the show and act like only back then would people make the Jew joke. Some people still would today, but you may not expect in a formal kind of work place setting like on this show. Don doesn't strike me as any kind of raging racist beyond some of the typical backward thinking of the time. He might have a few wrong ideas, but I don't see him as being too hate filled. He wouldn't correct some bigoted joking, but probably wouldn't join in, either.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:17 p.m. CST

    Celebritydave

    by ShabbyBlue

    No it's not. Matt Weiner already said in a recent interview that Betty wasn't molested.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:29 p.m. CST

    " You should be thanking me, along with Jesus, for giving you an

    by Grammaton Cleric

    ...cold fucking blooded.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:30 p.m. CST

    HOLY SHIT!!! Don put Peggy on blast!!!

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    Peggy needed to hear that straight up!<p>Don is right on the money about Peggy always wanting credit for doing her job!<p>How many of us who works get credit for doing their job???<p>I rarely get a thanky you and I too figure my thank you is fat paycheck I pcoket every week!<p>GO, DON!!!!

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:32 p.m. CST

    Oops! *I meant* my thank you is the fat paycheck...

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    I pocket every week!

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Uh oh... are Don and Peggy gonna hook up?

    by ShabbyBlue

    I'm getting that vibe so far in this ep...

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:42 p.m. CST

    Peggy was after Don's schlong before!

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    But he turned her down, cold!

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:44 p.m. CST

    Potential hookup

    by Canuck815

    I was getting that vibe too, which was why I figured it isn't gonna happen (typically the case on this show). Loving their interaction in this episode though, and how they keep calling each other out on different things.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:47 p.m. CST

    Dear GOD!

    by Canuck815

    Don puking (reminiscent of Team America's puke scene), Duck trying to shit on Draper's chair. What is happppening here.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Haha...Duck has become a pathetic jobless drunk

    by ShabbyBlue

    And he's steeping to immature acts like shitting on Draper's chair. Wow.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:55 p.m. CST

    800 bux Don lost on the fight is worth...

    by nastee_flembot

    Almost five thousand four hundred today. Holy Fuck!

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:55 p.m. CST

    "I'd throw a dollar bill out my window."

    by Hercules

    Was there ever a line that funny in "All in the Family"?

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 9:57 p.m. CST

    All Iin The Family was full of jokes! Archie rarely held back!

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    Love his and Lional interaction the most!

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:02 p.m. CST

    What a great episode

    by ShabbyBlue

    I almost teared up when Don broke down in front of Peggy in his office. I felt his loss.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Just keeps getting better

    by lock67ca

    They are really hitting Grand Slams this season.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:05 p.m. CST

    is the site gonna have an rip thread for schimmel and/or conrad?

    by brabon300

    lost two giants this weekend...im bummed

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:06 p.m. CST

    isnt duck there to remind don

    by brabon300

    that past behavior can indeed be a predictor of future behavior?

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:08 p.m. CST

    I loved the watching the radio scene

    by paulloch

    yelling at it like you could see the fight, and being able to listen and concentrate radio broadcast while having converstation. the juxtoposition of the "fight" and the fight between duck and don. The future (or possible future of Don becoming Duck) knocking out the past quickly, the whole theme of the episode. My fav so far this season. The S&G at the end Bleeker Street from Wednesday 3AM -- peggy-o , sounds of silence, times are a channgin -- are also on that album. Just amazing choice.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:09 p.m. CST

    So Don lost Anna, but gains Peggy..

    by ShabbyBlue

    Peggy will be his new close friend that he can open up to unlike anyone else in his life.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:11 p.m. CST

    How fucking bad are those fake Mad Men commericals?

    by InActionMan

    Do they think they're fooling the audience or something. Fucking dreadful. Makes me hate the products they're pushing. <P> Great Episode. Maybe the best of the season.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:11 p.m. CST

    Next Week's preview

    by VictorNewman

    Anyone else catch the framed photo of Buddy Ebsen as Jed Clampett behind Harry?

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:11 p.m. CST

    i'm getting sick of saying this but

    by Timahh

    best episode of the season.....quite possible one of the better of the series. Jon Hamm just found his emmy tape for next year.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:11 p.m. CST

    MM has been the greatest show on tv this season

    by HollywoodHellraiser

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:13 p.m. CST

    And I'll add it should have next year Emmy on lock!

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    Yeah, I don't think I'm reaching.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:18 p.m. CST

    I Didn't Make It Home In Time?! Not Even For The Encore?!?!

    by Crow3711

    NOOOOOOO!!!! <p> I guess I'll have to steal this online tomorrow. Gar. <p> (sigh) God knows this NEVER would have happen if LOST were still on the air....

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:24 p.m. CST

    Wow...

    by CITIZENKANE

    I actually think this episode might end up being my fave overall. This has just been an outstanding season. Mad Men just keeps giving us gifts.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:29 p.m. CST

    Mad Men Encore

    by Bass Ackwards

    There should be one more showing at 1am, gotta love cable.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:31 p.m. CST

    Did Weiner add negros to a Jewish joke???

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    I swear I thought anything jew had to do with money and that goes for offensive jokes as well!<p>Maybe Weiner didn't want to offend his partners and academy voters?

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:47 p.m. CST

    The dollar bill line

    by dukeroberts

    It was so throwaway I didn't even hear it. Dammit.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 10:52 p.m. CST

    Conrad who died?

    by dukeroberts

    I Googled Conrad and saw nothing.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11 p.m. CST

    loved tonights episode

    by adml_shake

    And though it was a nice touch to have the "ghost" of Anna finally getting to see where Dick worked. To bad she didn't drop in on the kids. Could have screwed up Sally even more.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:09 p.m. CST

    Beautiful Episode

    by Sacredfun

    I am so glad this show does not resort to the "shouting means things are important" pit so many others fall into. They use such nuanced restraint, and so if voices really are raised, it means something - and we saw that tonight with Peggy's response. There was SO much great acting going on tonight. I think BOTH Elisabeth Moss and Jon Hamm have an episode for their Emmy contention reel. And maybe now we'll see Don pull himself a little bit out of his stuporfunk. I don't want them to be together, but I want them to be a team. Such a great show. I'm already dreading the end of the season...

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:22 p.m. CST

    Agreed

    by Rebeck2

    Add me to the list - just a fantastic episode that covered so much ground and was so cathartic for both characters. A lot of great lines, but I loved "That's what the money's for!".

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:32 p.m. CST

    I would let Don Draper Bang My Girlfriend

    by nastee_flembot

    If I had a girlfriend, (sigh)

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:38 p.m. CST

    Holy sweet god damn.

    by sonic3305

    That was a fucking excellent episode. Holy shit. I'm still smiling.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:38 p.m. CST

    Holy sweet god damn.

    by sonic3305

    That was a fucking excellent episode. Holy shit. I'm still smiling.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:41 p.m. CST

    HoldMyFuckingWatch, you were included

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    "I can't get into it even though I tried" ... Read the sign, mate

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:43 p.m. CST

    Thought this was one of the greatest things I've ever seen, then

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    ... then there was that shot of the urinals, and Peggy's expression, and I knew.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:44 p.m. CST

    Dona nd Peggy weren't hooking up

    by Xiphos_2

    In the physical sense it's much deeper than that. They are two severely closed off lonely people that recognized something in the other person that makes for a safe connection. Plus they both are holding onto some pretty big secrets about the other person. It's profound sense of safety and M.A.D. all rolled into one.<p>Roger that cat is fucking aces with the one liners.<p>The info about Bert sounds, at the very least, plausible.<p> Both Hamm and Moss have now have Emmey reels to send in after this episode. To save shipping cost they should just send in one jointly.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:47 p.m. CST

    Don's lecture to Peggy...

    by ROBRAM89

    ...is some of the best writing and acting on TV in a long damn time.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:50 p.m. CST

    Don vs. Betty

    by maxwell's hammer

    I'm wondering if they'll have Don start a gradual ascent back into sobriety so they can have something to juxtapose against Betty going further bat-fuck nuts. I'm in the "I have empathy for Betty" camp, so I'm kind of dreading watching her go further off the deep-end.

  • Sept. 5, 2010, 11:52 p.m. CST

    Xiphos_2

    by adml_shake

    I agree, I don't see them actually hooking up. If they ever did get together I think it would be more serious, because of all the women in Don's life she's the one that can see through his bullshit, call him on it, and not be afraid to do so. But, I don't see it happening. Don just knows she was pregnant right, but doesn't know that Pete is the father?

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 12:04 a.m. CST

    Peggy's baby

    by dukeroberts

    Don does not know who the father is.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 12:06 a.m. CST

    lil Olson

    by maxwell's hammer

    Don probably now thinks Duck is the father.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 12:14 a.m. CST

    lolwhut?

    by Riff_Randell

    Wasn't the title for this TB, you're such a jew? Did this get changed just now?

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 12:20 a.m. CST

    This episode was fucking brilliant.

    by Jayemel

    If you didn't see how much more attractive Peggy is than Joan here, then there is no convincing (or redeeming) you. Paraphrased: <p> Peggy: When I walk down the straight, men don't turn their heads to look at me. <p> Don: You'd want that? <p> Don and Peggy? They're in love, more than Peggy has ever been, maybe in a way that Don can finally allow himself to truly experience love. They see themselves reflected in the other. That diner scene? So romantic. <p> I was moved to tears. This was one of the greatest episodes of television I've ever seen.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 12:22 a.m. CST

    Duck as father

    by krabklaw

    Pretty sure that Don can figure out that Duck's arrival at SC wouldn't fit the timeline of Peggy's pregnancy

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 12:26 a.m. CST

    "By the end of the series we will be rooting for Pete and hating

    by Jayemel

    If this happens, the show will be a steaming pile of shit.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 12:28 a.m. CST

    Brilliant episode. Brilliant season

    by RedJester

    And Rubicon was solid as always as well. Can't wait for "The Walking Dead"

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 12:30 a.m. CST

    They're not in love

    by krabklaw

    They're kindred spirits in some weird way but I didn't see anything romantic in their interactions. If anything, this pivotal episode underlines that there is nothing amorous about their complicated relationship.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 12:34 a.m. CST

    By the end of the series..Peggy will become Don's salvation

    by mr dark

    I not only think Anna Draper stopped by the office to see Don one last time...She also stopped to see Peggy.. Who will take over as the person who will really love this guy for what and who he is..just as Anna did until she passed to the other side..Take it as gospel..

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 12:41 a.m. CST

    and by the way Anna Draper was carrying a samsonite..

    by mr dark

    perfect!!!!

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 12:59 a.m. CST

    Somsonite... I was way off.

    by JuanSanchez

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:06 a.m. CST

    blankenship did get the racist joke wrong

    by brabon300

    which made it even funnier

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:07 a.m. CST

    If that's not love...

    by Jayemel

    ...then call me Good Charlotte because "I don't wanna be in love." Seriously, philosophically their relationship is the definition of love. Opposites attract? Bullshit. Kindred spirits do. The only question now is if they'll get their minds straight enough to realize it. <p> And mr dark, I hope you're right! I would love that!

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:10 a.m. CST

    JuanSanchez I wasn't correcting your spelling

    by mr dark

    I'm not one of the spell checkers...In fact I didn't even see a post up here from you...I also didn't notice anyone mention the suitcase..Have you been partying with Duck?

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:12 a.m. CST

    Don and Peggy: No romantic relationship

    by lock67ca

    Remember Mulder and Scully by the end of the X-Files? How wrong that was? Same thing here, if they chose to go down that road. This show is too smart for that. I'd be so disappointed.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:18 a.m. CST

    That's it

    by TakingScorpiosCalls

    best ep of the series, forget all previous ones.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:18 a.m. CST

    Jayemel... I don't think there could be any other outcome..

    by mr dark

    But I do think if Joan loses her man she could be vying for a spot as Peggy's rival....I only say that because I have a deep seated fantasy of being loved to death by Christina Hendricks "Joan Holloway" as I would find that possibly the most pleasent demise this world might offer..Yeah I think she's even hotter when she isn't done up as Joan...

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:21 a.m. CST

    Peggy and Anna

    by BizarroJerry

    I think it's true that Peggy has kind of stepped into Anna's shoes for Don. And from what we've seen Anna's case, Don doesn't seem to sleep with the women he is really emotionally close to. Maybe the teacher.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:25 a.m. CST

    Joan and Peggy

    by dukeroberts

    I don't find Peggy attractive. She kind of reminds me of Little Man Tate a little bit. Maybe it's her awful haircut. I don't know. Joan, on the other hand, is a different story. I'm not crazy about redheads, but Joan is the bee's knees. And, if you throw Betty into the mix, purely on a physical level, she is pretty damn "Wow" too.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:28 a.m. CST

    Mr Dark

    by dukeroberts

    The kiss last week was a little uncomfortably long. And didn't Joan seem giddy when Don took her hand?

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:28 a.m. CST

    will hamm ever win an emmy?

    by brabon300

    cuz if he doesnt for this season, i dont think he ever will

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:29 a.m. CST

    By the way, Mr Dark

    by dukeroberts

    "Something Wicked This Way Comes"?

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:34 a.m. CST

    Lock67ca I dunno ...Don was saying

    by mr dark

    just about everything Peggy might want to hear.. I think Don respects her and shares the same feelings and fears that Peggy has. They actually would have a good shot I think if this was real life. They do have more honesty when together than any one else on the show especially now that Anna's gone..Think about it!! I think there is some attraction also, if Peggy wants to look hot she is capable of doing so as she proved seasons ago when she got dolled up in the blue cocktail dress..she was smokin in that scene..

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:36 a.m. CST

    Just Keeps getting better

    by thewirebitches

    It really is unbeleivable, every season, every episode just keeps delivering. Peggy standing outside both the male and female bathrooms chooses the mens room. I thought that was a very deliberate shot. And Anna's Ghost, were we meant to believe he really sees her? I guess it's up to each viewer. I will admit in tearer up. Great fucking episode.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:37 a.m. CST

    Emmys

    by dukeroberts

    There's no way that this season could lose at the Emmys next year.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:37 a.m. CST

    Duke Roberts.. perceptive on all counts..

    by mr dark

    a doff of the hat to you sir..

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:40 a.m. CST

    Anna's Ghost

    by ShabbyBlue

    It's up to the viewer to decide. It could really be her ghost, or just Don's drunken hallucination. After all, she had a Samsonite suitcase in hand... so it was probably just his imagination.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:40 a.m. CST

    Off topic for a moment

    by dukeroberts

    I love "Something Wicked". I watch it around Halloween each year. I can think of no other film that better evokes a feeling of autumn and being a kid during that time of year than that movie.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:41 a.m. CST

    The wire bitches

    by mr dark

    A great compliment to the Mad Man series if your name comes from what I consider the Best T.V. show that was ever aired.. Look out Mr. Omar's commin..

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:42 a.m. CST

    Anna's ghost

    by dukeroberts

    I think it was just a drunken hallucination, like Ray Milland's bat and mouse in The Lost Weekend.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:45 a.m. CST

    Yeah Something wicked is made for that time of year..

    by mr dark

    Bradbury had a thing about the fall..The October people, Something Wicked, etc. by the way if you liked Something Wicked as a film I would also recommened a great movie called The Other...trust me if you liked Something Wicked you will most certianly like The Other..

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:50 a.m. CST

    The Other

    by dukeroberts

    The Other is pretty cool too. Tom Tryon, the author of the book, starred as Texas John Slaughter on Walt Disney Presents. My mom remembers it fondly, but due to the demise of the Walt Disney Treasures line, I will probably never see it.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:52 a.m. CST

    Mr dark

    by thewirebitches

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:52 a.m. CST

    Mr dark

    by thewirebitches

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:52 a.m. CST

    Duke I made an error above the book I was thinking of was

    by mr dark

    The Halloween tree not the October Country collection of stories..Lots of fall stuff in Rays writnings to be found for sure.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:54 a.m. CST

    Not to just echo what's already been said

    by funkylovemonkey

    but that was a fantastic episode. I'm amazed at the subtle movement of the character arcs in this story, so much movement without any of the fanfare.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:57 a.m. CST

    Great episode I'm jazzed up for next weeks too.

    by mr dark

    This show almost takes away the loss of The Wire, the Shield and a few others.. I do look forward to the Walking Dead and the return of Breaking bad..right now it seems AMC can do no wrong..If someone told me I would prefer T.V. to what Hollywood is dishing out to the theaters I never would have believed them..fucking amazing TV going on right now..

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:58 a.m. CST

    Yes The Wire is the greatest

    by thewirebitches

    Greatest drama period put to moving pictures. But Mad Men is creeping up there. Every episode begins and I Think okay maybe this won't be such a great episode and then the show takes you somewhere you could never comprehend 20 minutes before, and reveal slowly something new about a character that at one time is outlandish, bewildering, yet totally in line in what we have learned and loved about that certain character.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:58 a.m. CST

    The Halloween Tree

    by dukeroberts

    I've heard of it, but I've never read the story or seen the cartoon version of it. I will look for both though.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:58 a.m. CST

    Yes The Wire is the greatest

    by thewirebitches

    Greatest drama period put to moving pictures. But Mad Men is creeping up there. Every episode begins and I Think okay maybe this won't be such a great episode and then the show takes you somewhere you could never comprehend 20 minutes before, and reveal slowly something new about a character that at one time is outlandish, bewildering, yet totally in line in what we have learned and loved about that certain character.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 2:07 a.m. CST

    Wirebitches yes it was the best..

    by mr dark

    If you havent seen it yet try to get a hold of The Corner it is made by the great minds that brought you The Wire .. It was a four part 2 disc set...(you can rent it from netflix) hosted by Charels Dutton (Roc) who I believe wrote some of it about the Corner in his neighboorhood where drug dealing took place ...I gotta tell you up front it isn't the Wire but it's got most of the actors from the series in what are some very different roles..It will make your skin crawl with its in your face depiction of the addict...It is not for everyone but its true and very well done.. In fact at the end you get to meet the real survivors and hear how shit worked out for them ...Check it out if you havent....time for sleep enjoy

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 2:17 a.m. CST

    HERC

    by JethroBodine

    Why do you change these the headlines of these posts?

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 3:35 a.m. CST

    JethroBodine

    by Hercules

    I almost always find one better.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 4:06 a.m. CST

    they are already at the end of may 65

    by brabon300

    the time change is moving rather quickly...i hope they dont skip most of 66 next season

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 7:26 a.m. CST

    So fucking great....

    by DanielKurland

    And Don's breakdown in front of Peggy replaced flustered Don dropping his cigarette at the end of season three as my favorite Mad Men moment. Don and Peggy won't hookup. They're too similar, and running too parallel and the show is not about that. They'll HELP each other. I feel if they eventually did hook up, that would be the final straw in Don seeing how much he fucked up.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 7:57 a.m. CST

    Also, the latest Rubicon was mega good...

    by DanielKurland

    Glad this show has turned into something.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 9:47 a.m. CST

    Rubicon

    by dukeroberts

    Yes. Much love for Rubicon as well. And I can't wait to watch this week's episode of Mad Men again On Demand.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 9:54 a.m. CST

    Watch Pete Campbell Sweat

    by frakthetoasters

    Peggy and his pregnant wife walking, talking together. He was for a brief second nervous.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Read it. Know it. Love it.

    by Jayemel

    "He will always be attracted to the woman who reflects his deepest vision of himself, the woman whose surrender permits him to experience–or to fake–a sense of self-esteem. The man who is proudly certain of his own value, will want the highest type of woman he can find, the woman he admires, the strongest, the hardest to conquer — because only the possession of a heroine will give him the sense of an achievement, not the possession of a brainless slut." ...<p> "He will not acknowledge, but he knows that sex is the physical expression of a tribute to personal values. So he tries, by going through the motions of the effect, to acquire that which should have been the cause. He tries to gain a sense of his own value from the women who surrender to him– and he forgets that the women he picks have neither character nor judgment nor standard of value. He tells himself that all he’s after is physical pleasure– but observe that he tires of his woman in a week or a night, that he despises professional whores and that he loves to imagine he is seducing virtuous girls who make a great exception for his sake. It is the feeling of achievement that he seeks and never finds. What glory can there be in the conquest of a mindless body? Now that is your woman chaser." <p> That pretty much describes Don Draper perfectly. Peggy is his deepest reflection of himself. We saw that in this episode. Don's Hank Rearden journey is being amped up and I love it! Read the rest here: <p> http://rahmisari.com/2008/03/11/francisco-d%E2%80%99anconia%E2%80%99s-speech-sex-and-morality/

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 10:15 a.m. CST

    Prediction on series finale...

    by cekma

    I have thought since season 2 that the series finale will be based around Neil Armstrong landing on the moon. With the theme of "man going beyond his limits". In addition, I wouldn't be surprised if the show really ended with Don jumping off his building. The irony being that we have seen it the entire time coming with the opening credits. That would be an incredible montage: draper falling vs armstrong's foot touching the moon.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 10:20 a.m. CST

    Cekma .... You may be correct but...

    by mr dark

    I think before we see that we may see a certian Duck that can't fly.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 11:04 a.m. CST

    First Mad Men fart?

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    On top of everything else, Duck farted and tried to take a dump in the office. Jar Jar Binks you are officially on notice

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Rebeck2

    by Dreadlock Holmes

    Project much?

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 11:24 a.m. CST

    Dreadlock

    by Rebeck2

    I know this scam well. If I respond, I doth protest too much - if I don't respond, I'm admitting to something. It's a no win deal. So, once again, with feeling: Fuck you.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 11:28 a.m. CST

    Best episode of the season

    by drone44

    And probably one of the best of the series. Jon Hamm and Elisabeth Moss have their nominations for the 2011 Emmys locked up. Here's a great review: http://bit.ly/9avAuc And check out this full transcript of Don and Peggy's fight: http://bit.ly/9i07OZ

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 11:58 a.m. CST

    If the series ends...

    by Jayemel

    ...with Don killing himself, it will also be a steaming pile of shit. The opening credits are a metaphor for how everyone lives in the show. None of them are happy. They're all repressed, frustrated, and, well, mad.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 1:07 p.m. CST

    No Betty = Great Episode

    by FrodoFraggins

    Definitely the best of the season. Unfortunately we need to deal with Betty bringing down the show next week.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 2:12 p.m. CST

    One other little moment

    by Canuck815

    As always, this show comes through with those little moments that you can read a bit into. I find it interesting how when they're at the diner Don keeps stealing fries (or something) from Peggy's plate. He's a pretty professional guy and for him to be able to kick back like that with Peggy says a lot about their relationship.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 2:24 p.m. CST

    Mad Men is a soap opeara

    by Planty_McPlant_Plants_His_Plant_At_AICN

    I keeed. I keeed.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 2:34 p.m. CST

    "The Suitcase"

    by Mockingbird Girl

    Without a doubt, Elizabeth Moss's Emmy submission episode. Great stuff. Since BREAKING BAD will be off-air for a year, this may indeed be Hamm's best shot at an Emmy.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 2:45 p.m. CST

    It's always interesting how real life can prime interpretations

    by Jardinier

    Someone mentioned Billy Wilder's THE LOST WEEKEND last week, and I happened to have the DVD handy, so i watched it. So when Don saw the mouse, naturally I assumed it was a hallucination. I would have gone on assuming that if not for Peggy's reaction. <br><br><br> I also don't think Don and Peggy will hook up. This episode wasn't about preparing them for a romantic relationship; in an actual soap opera, they would probably get together. But "Mad Men" isn't a soap opera: it operates on theme and character as opposed to surface and plot. <br><br>This episode was about Peggy and how her path to success reflects Don's, while being very much her own. The two most striking actions/images in the episode for me: Peggy lying down on her own couch, spending the night at the office because she does not want to face her fiancé/family: just like Don. And Peggy sitting on the couch, Don's head in her lap, a glass in one hand and the other arm comfortably resting partly on Don, partly on the back of the couch: a variation of the opening title shot (imagine that scene from behind: you wouldn't even see Don). (And that image isn't just about Peggy and how Don is the one with whose help she will rise further; it's also about Don and how he has found a new confidante and partner (of sorts, anyway).) <br><br>While we're on the subject, I guess the final image of the episode means that Don has finally decided to turn over a new leaf and re-start his life (though, who knows, I've thought that a couple of times already this season, and was proven wrong).

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 2:50 p.m. CST

    Don and Peggy. Roger and Don. Foreshadowing thoughts

    by ndally

    Not sure if this has been mentioned but  Don and Peggys relationship seems to be foreshadowed by Don and Rogers. Anyone remember in season 1 when Roger and Don are at a restaurant and they try to out drink one another only to find when they get back to Sterling Copper that Elevator is broken so they take the stairs and Roger pukes infront of would be clients. Roger has a heart attack soon after. Now last weeks episode showed Roger having flashbacks around his first encounter with Don after taking credit for finding Don(he of course has almost nothing to do with it. Don was hired due to Rogers bad memory). This is in contrast with Don and Peggy when we see Don trying to take credit for something he had nothing to do with(the Cereal Slogan). And hiring someone he doesn't see talent in as a result. Now how many times have we seen Don throw up from drinking? None. Tonight was the first time in four seasons he has puked as a result of his drinking. Matt Weiner waited four seasons to show us Don puking as a result of his lifestyle. Why? Are they trying to to tell us something? Is Don going to have a heart attack? Or some sort of major consequence from his drinking? There has to be something there. Roger is divorced and married a former secretary. Don is divorced and fucks his secretary. Anyone else see something here? And thoughts on why this might be important? On a side note I think a major death is coming. Last season I was sure they were going to show Burt kick the bucket by the end of season 3. That didn't happen. I don't know why but I have a feeling Roger or Burt might bite the dust soon. I'm inclined to think Burt due to his age but Weiner likes to throw curve balls so who knows. Thoughts anyone?

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 4:04 p.m. CST

    I don't think the opening credits have anything to do with suici

    by InActionMan

    The silhouette of the man in the business suite doesn't jump. Everything that "holds him up" his briefcase, office furniture, decorations the walls and the floor start to fall away from him and then he begins to plummet. <P> However, we never see the man hit the ground. Does he land safely and become "The Man" casually smoking the cigarette at the end of the credit sequence or has he been replaced be a new "The Man"? <P> Who is the silhouette of "The Man" Don, Pete, Roger? <P> Peggy may have helped Don out of his latest funk. But, I don't think Don will ever change. He is going to marry that smoking hot receptionist and then repeat the "Don Draper has a bourbon Manhattan and cheats on his wife" routine we have seen before.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 4:07 p.m. CST

    Commercials were tales of the future

    by MGTHEDJ

    I believe all of the ideas they were hashing out were used as commercials for suitcases in the late 1960's and 1970's. The football players, thowing the suitcase off a roof, and of course the animal ideas. American Tourister's most famous ad was a gorilla throwing the suitcase around a cage.<p>Don and Peggy will not hook up, Peggy will replace Anna as the one woman he truly trusts. Anna's farewell was great, and Hamm will win that Emmy.<p>Peggy will become the typical late 1970's-early 1980's corporate woman, who sacrificed everything for the job: family, friends, marriage, and children.<p>Loved the use of Simon and Garfunkel. BTW May 1965 was when the college kids started calling radio stations requesting "Sounds of Silence". The song was recut and re-released that summer, and "Sounds of Silence" hit #1 on the US charts by New Years Day 1966. So, My money is on MM using "7 O'Clock news" when Joan's husband is killed.------later-----m

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Don and Peggy

    by jmac4ever

    While I can see why others feel that Don and Peggy getting together wouldn't happen on this show, I would hate for Weiner to not put them together just to be different. If this is a show that prides itself on realism over soap opera antics, two single people who love each other and are attracted to each other NOT hooking up is NOT realistic. Don never tried with Anna because Anna was the real Don's wife and I'm sure he felt as though he'd taken enough from the guy. And, of course, there are plenty of logical reasons for Don not to hook up with Peggy, mostly work related. However, I would hate for Weiner to think about putting them in a relationship and stop himself because it's "too predictable". At this point in the show, doing the predictable thing WOULD be unpredictable.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 4:23 p.m. CST

    A death

    by dukeroberts

    I think it might be Pete who kicks the bucket. That might throw people for a loop, but he mentioned a certain heart condition that runs in his family, he is an expectant father, he is partner in a (sort of) new, hot ad agency... Things are looking up for Pete, until his possible death.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 4:34 p.m. CST

    jmac4ever

    by lock67ca

    That's precisely why I think it shouldn't happen. It's happened on so many other shows, and those shows usually get worse because of it. And Mad Men is so much better than most other shows.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Nice analysis, ndally!

    by elvisaintdead

    Interesting. There's some good thinking here.<br /> <br /> I'll need 20 headlines by the end of the day.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 4:43 p.m. CST

    By far the best Episode

    by Fineus Fog

    Of this season so far and I feel we still have lot to learn about Peggy. Would like to see more Betty, even though she's a total child beating bitch January Jones gets my pants warm

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Don and Peggy "hooking up"

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I don't think if they indeed love each other it's the kind of love that necessitates romance. If the writers don't have them hooking up, I think that's natural, not trying to be "different"

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 4:57 p.m. CST

    Ndally, once thing you overlooked...

    by DanielKurland

    The KEY element in that scene is that Don tells Roger the elevator is out so he HAS to climb the stairs, knowing that Roger is old, and that he'll throw up in front of them. It's all very intentional, and a good example of Don being able to manipulate circumstances to his advantage, without looking like it.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 4:57 p.m. CST

    I think dukeroberts is right

    by Fineus Fog

    Pete dying before the birth of his child due it his casually mentioned heart condition is possible - he seems to be wound up pretty tight lately

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 5:02 p.m. CST

    Don NEEDS a platonic relationship now...

    by DanielKurland

    And as a bunch of people mentioned here, it seems like Peggy will become the new Anna. He was giving her details about his mom and dad here that he hasn't with other people. I think he wants to know he CAN have a platonic relationship, so adding sex to what he has with Peggy, I feel would only make him feel worse about himself, and as attracted as Peggy may or may not be to Don, if she were to start dating him, it would only solidify everyone's assumptions that she is where she is due to Don, which she doesn't want. The two of them are both loners; independents, and to show them both on that same journey, while helping each other on the way, makes a lot more sense than them hooking up. Someone else that is A LOT like Don, but not quite an "extension of himself" is that blonde that's been introduced this season, and I do see them eventually getting together.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 5:51 p.m. CST

    Ducks Phonecall to Peggy

    by celebritydave

    What a great meltdown. LOVED IT!!!! starts out great, then the anger creeps in. gold.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 6:27 p.m. CST

    Reminded me of the "Fly" episode from BREAKING BAD...

    by BurnHollywood

    Two key characters stuck in a neurotic predicament seemingly of their own creation, but really because there's much larger things at stake that at least one of the characters is hiding from.<p> Truly great ep. Peggy seems to have stepped into Anna's place...huge ramifications for the show there, but a very natural development all the same.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 6:29 p.m. CST

    BurnHollywood; Exactly!

    by DanielKurland

    Reminded me of Fly as well. Probably my two favorite pieces of writing this year. And both just ENITRELY character pieces. If these were the first episodes you saw of these shows, you'd surely hate these episodes.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 6:41 p.m. CST

    On the next episode of Mad Men

    by InActionMan

    The space time continuum is altered when Ken and Harry find a Macbook. <P> http://tinyurl.com/2cjrn8r

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 8:02 p.m. CST

    Peggy & Don is predictable? And ndally (!)

    by Jayemel

    Peggy & Don is predictable? What world do you people live in? In the world I live in, fictional characters never end up with people likes themselves. We're fed the whole "opposites attract" bs. Do you want evidence? How about Lee Adama and Starbuck? How about Jack and Kate? I'd love to live in a world where the correct view of love exists, but it doesn't. Peggy & Don would be subversive, not cliche. <p> Ndally, such fucking brilliant analysis. You're exactly right, Roger is what Don could be. The key word is "could." Roger is the logical conclusion about the American philosophy up until that point in time. Then Don comes along. Is he going to allow himself to befall the same fate or find a new philosophy and overcome? (And yes, I used the word "befall" as a pun on the opening credits, as you're exactly right. Everything that is supposed to be supporting the man is letting him down and causing him to fall.)

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Noting they're alike

    by BizarroJerry

    I think that Don took notice of how alike he and Peggy are when she said, "I know what I'm supposed to want..." and that she's not sure it's what she wants. That describes not only Don exactly, but even Betty to some extent. They all have tried for certain things in life that others tell them they should want. Honestly, that right there is a major component, though in a subtle way, of the whole hippie / counter culture thing back then. Though some of that culture went to sort of an excessive degree, Don and Peggy are struggling to do what they want with life but cant figure out how to get it outside of the world they're stuck in. I think sometimes people overlook that change during the 1960s because of the "sexier" peace, love, dope, war protest stuff.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 10:25 p.m. CST

    More thoughts and ramblings on the role of alcohol etc

    by ndally

    Interesting enough Danielkirkland Don has the exact opposite happen in this episode. When we see Peggy helping Don walk without falling over Don says "that elevator is like a rocket" or something to that affect which means Roger vomited as a result of not taking an elevator and Don puked because of one.  This makes me think that Weiner is trying to show us the parrells between Roger and Don but at the same time telling us there is usually something different about their similarties. I mentioned earlier the parrelel with Roger and Don both divorced while Roger marries his affair Don did not(Roger tends to wear his heart on his sleeve a bit more than Don so it makes sense especially when we see how affectionate Roger is towards Joan and the lady from last season who owned the Dog Food company) So the point of showing Roger have the heart attack etc. was to show how the lifesyle these men lead catches up with them eventually. We  rarely see the effects of heavey drinking short term but rather the slow burn and long term consequences of drinking. Duck, Freddy Rumsen and in a way Roger with the above example. This year has seen Don using someone elses idea when drunk(a new low according to Weiner) he fucked the secretary when he was wasted(at least that's what I remember). So we are seeing Dons consequences of drinking more than anyother point in this show. Is it Rockbottom or the begining?  This episode had fighting as a big theme. Don with Duck, Don with Peggy and the fight that everyone watches that Don  looses money on. Anna loosing the fight with cancer(that exampe could be reaching a bit i duno)I'm not sure with this show if we should take these fights at face value or look for the metaphors. maybe Don fighting Duck is Don fighting his possible future(sounds lame and a tad clichè) as a warn out alcoholic. he looses that fight. I don't know I guess that's reaching too but this show has so much going on you can't take everything at face value. Look at when Peggy sees the painting of the Parthanon with the dog. She asks why is a dog there and Don says the Dog is a roach. I guess you could go on forever looking at every character interaction and the motivation and metaphors behind it. Does it all mean something or are they all peices to a larger puzzle? All I know is that the Sopranos followed a similar "don't take everything at face value" approach and when you go back and watch the sopranos again you can see all the pieces moving and fitting together like a giant puzzle. Great story telling. This episode kept me up last night thinking of what the bigger picture might be and where all this is headed.       Think of the really bad shit that has happened to people in this show. Freddy Rumsen Pissing himself, the British guy getting his foot run over, Duck embarassing himself, Betty cheating on Don for the first time in after meeting at a BAR, SAL and Lucky strike guy, numerous Don Draper sexual encounters, Rogers Heart attack, Harry cheating on his wife plus I'm probably missing alot more. All of these events are fueled by drunk people. Consqeuences or actions motivated by alcohol. that has been a constant through out the show. Most people chalk it up to being the 60s and "that's just what people did" but you start to see a pattern. Whenever something bad happens what do people on this show usually say? "I need a drink" or "make me a drink" or "do you want a drink". We are being conditioned by Matt Weiner to think alcohol=negative consqeuces. Just some thoughts anyone have any ideas about these questions or is it just looking into things to much? **pardon the spelling and grammar I'm writing from my cell**    

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 10:36 p.m. CST

    God damn it. Paragraphs were deleted

    by ndally

    That should have been in Paragraphs and was written that way but for some reason there are no paragraphs.

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 11:39 p.m. CST

    Roger on the phone to Don

    by severianx1

    His exact words: "And they're self so righteous". Actor flubbing line, or character too drunk to talk straight?

  • Sept. 6, 2010, 11:48 p.m. CST

    so far...

    by WeylandYutani

    season 4 has been very strong IMO. Good additions to the cast in addition to new sets and circumstances that work well with the continuing story arcs of the characters. <P> I know it is beyond the budget and scope of the series, but I would LOVE to see more exterior street scenes in the series. So far, the series has taken place almost entirely in office, bar, lobbies, the Draper household and aircraft interior sets. Other than Don driving on long winding highways with the California wind in his hair, they are almost never outdoors. I suppose the costs of digital mattes and CG extensions of city streets would be prohibitive. <P> Anyway, great work by all involved. This series will surely go down with The Sopranos, The Wire and Deadwood as a modern TV classic.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 2:12 a.m. CST

    I like Herc's headline changes

    by Bass Ackwards

    It's usually a good signifier for when I should stop visiting the talkback, as I see the episodes a day later than everyone else. New headline mean spoilers abound!<p>Also, what does anyone make of the one guy refusing to clean up the mess when Joan asks them to?

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 2:55 a.m. CST

    ndally

    by Jayemel

    I think with the Duck/Don fight you're missing an important component. Don sort of loses the fight, yes, but Peggy is there to pull Duck off and send him away. To extend the metaphor, is Peggy keeping Don from becoming Duck? Similarly, at the beginning of the episode, Don is talking about Liston, but by the end he is utilizing the image of Clay to mean strength.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 6:13 a.m. CST

    Jayemel good call

    by ndally

    That's true. I was going to touch on Don using the winner of fight for his idea, that he thinks Peggy is "shitting on" before she makes an excuse for her first reaction. Kind of reversing roles from the begining of the episode when Don is doing the same thing to Peggys ideas but I didn't tie it in to the Duck/Don fight which makes it even more interesting. Good call

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 7:57 a.m. CST

    Don missed his punch by a mile.

    by cookylamoo

    I guess that's why they call him Duck.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 8:56 a.m. CST

    Sunday nights on AMC...

    by The McPoyle Clan

    not for the ADD crowd. That's for sure.<p><p>This was the midpoint of the season, and the best episode so far.<p><p>I like how they toss in some old ads during the breaks, but the wannabe riffs and the trivia cards are lame.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 3:32 p.m. CST

    I had a weird dream that mixed Mad Men with True Blood.

    by Royston Lodge

    I had this dream a few nights ago. It was very strange.<p> It was 1960s New York, but for some reason Mad Men took place inside the True Blood universe, and had just recently been turned into a vampire.<p> Pretty decent dream, ackshully.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 3:34 p.m. CST

    My kingdom for an edit button!

    by Royston Lodge

    That should have read, "and Sally had just recently been turned into a vampire."<p> www.tinyurl.com/editbttn

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 3:37 p.m. CST

    I figured the guy not cleaning up for Joan

    by deelzbub

    showed both a general lack of respect for authority (in the air at the time) and a change in tone on how Joan is treated in this new office. She was once SheWhoWillNotBeQuestioned, and now is just the old lady secretary. Not to be confused with Don's old lady secretary.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Oh and Don, what a puss!

    by deelzbub

    Even if he is passive-aggresive as all get-out, how could he not have the guts to fight off Duck?<P> Almost ridiculous to the point of unbelievablity.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 4:33 p.m. CST

    Joan's gonna hook up with Joey...

    by TopHat

    ...Joey's the guy who didn't clean up when she asked. In the preview for next week's show it has Joan yelling at the guys again. It could be one of those "young good-looking guy stands up to her, thereby, turns her on". Or, Joan could make a pass at him, and he totally rejects her, thereby showing Joan's descent into middleage. Or, they could have absolutely no relation to each other at all and I'm totally wrong about where MAD MEN is going, once again.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 4:36 p.m. CST

    I thought Don reading of "uncle" was priceless.

    by cookylamoo

    He might as well have said "Ok, Uncle, asshole."

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 5:02 p.m. CST

    I love that Don lost the fight

    by Gleemonex

    Because he is the quintessential Alpha Male we all assumed that Don was going to wipe the floor with Duck. But really, when has Don ever had to fight anyone? He's used to talking and charming his way out of a conflict. Duck was an actual soldier so of course he won the fight.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 5:58 p.m. CST

    If Duick was a badass soldier he would've had Don at the start!

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    C'mon both guys fought sloppy and Duck just manage to get on top of Don! Then he pulled some fake ass move that ANY guy on AICN could've seen from a magazine!<p>Thats badass???<p>How many of us never did that shit with moves we saw on tv with Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris?<p>How many declare themselves a lethal weapon when growing up and knew it was BULLSHIT?<P>Don said uncle because that was the only thing his drunk, hungover mind could think of!<p>Seriously, did Don looked scared? Because to me he looked like he wasn't in the mood to fight!

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 6:15 p.m. CST

    don losing

    by goshyourethewrongest

    it seems like don is losing more than fights... that "the champ" suitcase idea was pretty lame, and both he and peggy knew it. she basically said "no it's good" while avoiding eye contact, after don looked hurt at her criticism (and it was the second of his ideas in the course of the episode that she questioned and pointed out wouldn't translate to television aka the creative genius is starting to fall behind the times...) will the series end with don in the cooper role, the big head honcho who reads the paper all day and is (metaphorically, of course!) without any real balls? leading just maybe to that don't jumpppppppp moment....

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 6:58 p.m. CST

    Don "losing" the "fight"

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    First of all, that wasn't much of a fight. Second, Duck was het up and WANTING a fight. Don had JUST finished puking his brains out and obviously had very little interest in fisticuffs. I think reading into that moment too much is a mistake.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 7:29 p.m. CST

    Duck wasn't a soldier Duck was a badass MARINE

    by Xiphos_2

    20 years and about a million gallons of hootch ago.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 8:04 p.m. CST

    TopHat

    by brabon300

    joan doesnt make passes at men, and is very confidant in her sexuality<p>and those boys are gonna learn who rules the roost...and it isnt them

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 8:24 p.m. CST

    No, I think the Duck thing was for real.

    by _Maltheus_

    Don is no fighter. Not just because of how he left Korea, but you can see it in the way he deals with his family and even in the way he deals with Roger. He may have not been particularly scared of Duck, but he knew he was out of his element and backed down. Don is all about avoiding confrontation.<br /><br />@ndally, if that AICN paragraph bug continues to plague you, you can get the greasemonkey plugin for firefox and then install the AICN Power Mod (http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/72709) I wrote to fix that and a whole lot of other problems with this site. You can check out the entire list at that link. It's free and open source.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 8:54 p.m. CST

    Don knew he was out his element and back down?

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    Talk about reading too much into something.<p>Like someone stated, Don had just puke his guts out and was just still hungover! Both guys were drunk!<p>Did you missed the part where Don swung and missed Duck by a mile???<p>Duck got lucky and caught Don by the upperbody and both fell to the ground.<p>There was no special takedown or any special moves by Duck! Both fell to the ground like to drunk hobos!<p>WTF, do some Youtubing and see some real fights! LOL

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Yeah the "fight" was drunken shenanigans

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I think when Don said "uncle" he meant it, but it's not particularly meaningful.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 9:04 p.m. CST

    I think Don meant it as well.

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    But he only said it because he didn't want to fight anymore, not because he was scared of Duck so-called threat!

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 9:26 p.m. CST

    Episode Ranking?

    by DustinBones

    Where does this one land? Great, great stuff there: Peggy and Don going at each other, makin up, the drinking, the fights (Duck, Cassius), Duck Shit, obscene levels of puking, Trudy/Peggy/Pete, Tears, orchiectomies, Possible Apparitions, Queen of Perversion, a mouse, the whistle. Damn, that was a great episode

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 9:43 p.m. CST

    DustinBones

    by mullymt

    That was the best episode so far, in my opinion. Probably the best episode of TV in years.

  • Sept. 7, 2010, 10 p.m. CST

    Episode Ranking

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I'm not sure where it ranks on the show but it's one of the best things I've seen in a long time, period

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 12:12 a.m. CST

    No one else noticed?

    by severianx1

    So I guess no one else noticed what seemed an awful lot like a flubbed line?

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 1:04 a.m. CST

    I didn't notice

    by Jardinier

    If blooper reels are any indication, actors tend to start cursing or laughing once their brain notices any flub, thus ruining the take anyway. So if it's in the show (and it wasn't part of an insanely complicated shot), it's probably intentional.

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 6:17 a.m. CST

    Agree with Maltheus

    by ThrowMeTheIdol

    Sure they were drunk but Don is just not a fighter, and it's unlikely he could even beat Pete Campbell in a fight. That is not any insult on his manhood unless you're 14 and think who can win a fistfight means who is the better man. Interestnigly, an undercurrent of this season has been former WW2 Vets like Duck and Roger unhappy with how they are not being treated as well as they feel like they should be while softer Don has it all (in their eyes, of course we see him as sad and lonely).

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 6:21 a.m. CST

    And yeah

    by ThrowMeTheIdol

    I was exaggerating when I said Pete. :) Would be fun to see though.

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 7:43 a.m. CST

    Who would rather see Don kick Ducks ass?

    by cookylamoo

    And throw him out the window to land on the head of that Lucky Strike bastard.<br /> <br /> That would work.<br /> <br />

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 8:37 a.m. CST

    I don't think I was reading too much into it.

    by _Maltheus_

    The entire theme of the episode, if not the season/show, has been Don dealing with his avoidance issues. He couldn't deal with Anna, nor did he want to deal with Peggy or Duck. He's drinking more and more to avoid all his problems. He didn't fight with Betty for the kids or the house. He's pretty much avoided his entire past. I did specifically say he wasn't afraid of Duck, but that fighting is just not his thing. He's a runner. Which is why he was so averse to signing any contract. He took a swing because he was drunk, but then quickly realized that's not his thing (and yes, Duck would have won cause he had the fire and experience).

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 11:09 a.m. CST

    Whether or not Don can beat anyone in a fight

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    It's really a minor issue, if one at all. I am sort of taken aback that some of you seem to really care about this very small touch in the episode. Two drunk assholes flailing away. Y<p>es, Don said he never killed anyone earlier in the episode. Yes Duck claims to have killed 17 men at Okinawa. Yes Duck gets the better of Don. He also tried to take a dump on a chair. <p>It's like ... I don't know, I think it's odd that people are so interested in this in an episode with so much more interesting and important things to offer. The fight was an aside.

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Duck did kill 17 men.

    by cookylamoo

    Unfortunately they were on our side.

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 12:15 p.m. CST

    The Suitcase

    by skimn

    I kept thinking, sp when Peggy mentions the elephant, is someone going to come up with the famous gorilla-with-a-suitcase campaign. Using Clay as a starting point, given the racial attitude it could be linked that "Clay's as strong as a gorilla" (remember Howard Cosell's "look at that monkey run" debacle), and take it from there. A little research though shows that that campaign didn't begin until 1970, and it was for American Tourister, which ironically was bought out by Samsonite, and was linked to that campaign and capitalized on it in future ads. Ah, the power of advertising...

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Another great line..fine dining in NYC...

    by skimn

    "Why is there a dog in the Parthenon?...That's a roach. Lets go.."<p>Let me echo what been said week after week. Weiner and company seem to firing on all cylinders this season.

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Lets also remember that Don took a swing at Duck

    by skimn

    after Duck called Peggy a whore.

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 6:54 p.m. CST

    ThrowMeTheIdol

    by Jayemel

    The whole WW2 vet thing is setting up the Vietnam controversy, when this country turned on its soldiers for the first time. Also, with the free love movement came a redefinition of manhood...which we're not so coincidentally discussing in this thread. Good job, Matthew Weiner.

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 7:42 p.m. CST

    There's another way out of this room

    by deelzbub

    hmmm

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 9:23 p.m. CST

    There's another way out of this room

    by DustinBones

    That line was delivered as such a "throw-away", then, I caught myself thinking of three different meanings for it, then I thought to myself: "Am I over-thinking this". Then I realized, it's Mad Men.

  • Sept. 8, 2010, 11:05 p.m. CST

    "There's another way out of this room."

    by Jayemel

    Is a hint at the philosophy Don is discovering. He's been "trying to get out of the room" (his unhappiness) by going down the conventional path, the path of Roger Sterling. However, this season sees him struggling with these important ideas (expectations vs wants), and finally starting to understand what side he needs to fall down on (wants).