Cool News
AICN Special Screening of WAITING FOR SUPERMAN w/ Director Davis Guggenheim!!!
Hey folks, Harry here with the third and final screening of next week that AICN is putting on.
And of the 3, this is the only one that I've seen so far. WAITING FOR SUPERMAN is one of the most incredibly important documentaries of the year. The doc is about the education system here in the United States. Something that is so incredibly screwed up beyond all belief that even when proven effective methods get proposed... those in power reject everything but the broken status quo.
This isn't a documentary that is filled with hopelessness and dire predictions of the future, but rather one that will fill you with both outrage and hope. Anger and an answer. The problem is, Democrat or Republican... they're both afraid of the same problematic entity. Which you'll find in the film.
Director Davis Guggenheim and I will be conducting a spirited discussion with the audience for WAITING FOR SUPERMAN - and I hope to see many of you there to join the conversation and spread the need to continue this conversation on a larger scale.
How to get in?
Send an email to: HK at AintItCool.Com - with the following subject line:
Education isn't a Gambling Enterprise!
then in the body of your email - include your name and the name(s) of your guests (up to two additionals).
The screening is Thursday, September 2nd, 2010 at the Alamo Drafthouse South at 7:30pm. I'm eager to see you all there!
-
+ Expand All
-
oh see...i never learned to spell
-
The topic seems more important now that I have a kid! I can't even remember my HS experience at this point... it seems like some hallucination out of Gilliam's Brazil.
-
Teachers unions wont allow them..yeah those teachers unions supported by your Obama Harry.
-
The wait for some one to adapt a proper Superman film.The way they finaly got Batman right. So it's a right/left thing? Fuck it. Both sides are turning into full on extremist dickheads.
-
Name a proven idea that has been proposed and then rejected by the teacher's union. It doesn't happen. The unions don't have control over what we teach (yes, I'm a teacher) they can only ensure that the districts follow the contract negotiated between the school board and the union. Most people who like to point their fingers at unions have no real concept of how they work or what they actually do.
-
the trailers make it look as though it's going to paint a pretty narrow picture of a much larger problem.
-
for alot of obvious reasons
-
Wrong. They take a very broad look at the problem. And if you don't think Teachers Unions get in the way - you definitely need to see this film. They've crippled the situation in D.C.
-
Because they gave him alot of money to put a splash ad right on the homepage
Just sayin. -
Funkateer called me out but then Harry called him out...hmmm...Ill go with Harry on this (which makes me feel like a dick now for posting that Excorsist comment) but he'll get over it...Funk please elaborate this statement
"they can only ensure that the districts follow the contract negotiated between the school board"
How excatly do they go about "ensuring" and what are the details of those contracts -
Yeah, they DO serve to keep some sorry assed teachers employed, but at the same time, as someone who got a degree in teaching English to 5th through 12th graders, there DOES need to be someone to back you up when little Johnny's mom gets mad because you taught the Scarlet Letter, and she feels like it's leading little Johnny down a path to wickedness (or - God forbid - you're a science teacher who dares to teach Darwinian evolution), and you should be fired for teaching such a terrible book. In many cases, it's the union who sticks up for the teachers in those situations, and in those situations, I think they're necessary, since the district won't necessarily do so. The real question is how to get the unions to protect those teachers who need protecting without sticking up for those teachers who are just going through the motions, waiting it out until maximum pension kicks in and they can retire. It's not an easily solved issue.
-
Aug 26, 2010 11:26:58 PM CDT
Harry, are you lamenting the failure of Pilgrim like the /Film
by juansanchez
guys?
-
Because of Scott Pilgrim. Every fucking ten minutes a new tweet reminding everyone that " if you go see anything other than SPVTW you're an idiot!This movie DESERVES your money". Fuck sites that try and manipulate you into seeing a film that they have an intrest in. And fuck Roger Ebert. Follow him on twitter for like five minutes and you will realize he is an extremist nut job.
-
If hes that bad on twitter, imagine how like his friends were around him at lunches and parties when he could talk..holy hell.
-
There was no failure by the film. The film is spectacular, the only failure was in the marketing finding a larger audience, and by the audience in allowing the best film in the marketplace to be ignored. This is nothing new. There's usually a couple of great films in my top ten list that the larger audience hasn't found. I've seen it 4 times now. I'm ecstatic with the film.
-
had to do it.
-
Looks like an EXCELLENT documentary and I really want to see it. I just wish it had a different title for obvious reasons.
-
and thats the only truth which applies everywhere in the world.with a crippled education,you have crippled people and crippled people can easily be controlled.
-
Vacillating between hurt, pissed and bitchy.
-
http://tinyurl.com/2cuz22a
-
Aug 27, 2010 1:27:59 AM CDT
Harry - You should help small time film makers by posting that t
by hysfvbsaygvandsv
-
Let's be real, some people just shouldn't be teachers. We all have had at least TWO teachers in our lives whereupon walking out of their class we've thought, "What the fuck was that?!" teacher tenure and a moratorium on school vouchers is foolish. yeah you can choose to have an abortion or not, who to marry, whether to own a gun, but try to choose to go to a private school on the government's dime because the public school you're supposed to go to sucks and people go apeshit.
-
There are some big issues that aren't tackled. I think Davis Guggenheim is great, but he's not a teacher.
Problems:
1) Other countries don't test the way we do. My cousins in Norway were seperated into university-bound schools when they went to high school. Seperating college bound from vocational students is common in other countries, and the U.S. is unique in that we have traditionally put students, regardless of future dreams, into the same education. When students in Japan or Norway are tested, it is only the best and the brightest who are tested, while in the U.S., it is everyone.
2) Every state has its own system, so you can't say that Washington state's system is just like that of Washington D.C., or that the Unions of Washington state are just as corrupt.
3) While its true that some unions abuse their power, it's also true that there are assholes on the reformers' bandwagon who have their own issues with public education and are hitching a ride in the backseat with every intention of destroying it. The Republican Party in this country has spewed their attitude that they want everything out of schools, but they don't want to pay for it. By breaking down the power of the teachers unions, which protect us from being abused by the public who use us for the 16+ hours of work we put in per day, the Republicans will have us at their mercy to do whatever they want us to do and teach whatever they want us to teach.
4) PARENTS SUCK these days. It's not true for everyone, but if you talk with an older teacher who's been around for a while and ask him or her about it, they'll tell you just how irresponsible this current generation of parents is. They don't make their kids go to bed on time. They don't make them do their homework. They don't feed them the healthiest food. They divorce, and then they bring home strangers on weekend nights and fuck so that the whole neighborhood can hear it. And then when their little angel gets in trouble at school, they blame the teacher. We as teachers can control what goes on with a student while he or she is at school, but we have absolutely no control over what happens at home. Why aren't politicians and editorialists and documentarians going after the current state of parenting? Because that would be too unpopular a position to take.
While there is lots to fix in our 51 American educational systems, you have to look at the greater issue. Our society not rotting because of our schools. Our schools are rotting because of society. -
Love Scott Pilgrim. Will see again. Will get disc. Since there is no sequel to fund I don't see the point in following the box office. The end.
-
No? Then pass.
-
Dang RIGHT.
-
There is a very simple reason this flick failed....
The world is not filled with nerds.
Scott Pilgrim is another one of those nerd wish fullfilment movie
were the nerd gets the girl, can fight but still is an total ass.
Most young/men are not like the celler dwellers who run this site.
This flick failed not because of marketing, word of mouth, etc...it failed cuz you nerds are in the minority.
Oh and Harry...
Ever hear of Shoalin Soccer or Kung Fu Hustle, ya know those movies that did that comic book vibe years ago...with better fight scenes and acting?
Pay must be good if it blocks your memory... -
I admit they are definitely part of the problem, but there are a lot of other factors today as well.
-
anti union? Stop politicizing it and just give it a watch. There's a pretty good chance it's balanced when both ends of the spectrum think it's propaganda from the enemy. I think these people genuinely have their hearts in the right place. So why not check your talking points at the door just this once and wait until you've seen it?
-
Look....it is a complicated problem, but start with lower class sizes, less preps for teachers and more prep time. Also, work to make education an attractive profession. It isn't just a "calling", it needs to be an opportunity for capable young people.
Politically nothing gets done. It is more politically effective to decry teacher quality and declare we are going to hold them to higher standard. You can't hold someone to a higher standard who isn't there. Teachers must be held accountable, but attracting gifted and intelligent people to the profession would be the first and best improvement in education. -
Studies have actually been done that compare charter schools and private schools to the public schools in their areas, and the surprising results is that their students don't do any better on standardized tests. For every charter schools that does better than the local public school, there's another charter schools that's failing. This looks like it picks one of the good charter schools and pretends like that is the case around the country. It isn't.
-
Yeah. Tell that to the taxpayers of NY who pay "teachers" to report to a fucking building and work on their novels all day, some of them for fucking YEARS. Tell that to the LA Times who (gasp) had the temerity to publish teacher evaluations in the paper. Tell that to Dr. Steve Perry, a black principal who says, quite clearly, that the number one problem with our schools is teachers' unions.I ain't saying that they're the entire problem, but teachers' unions are sure as hell ONE of the problems.
-
Aug 27, 2010 8:53:33 AM CDT
Here we go. Right-wing nuts coming out of the woodwork again.
by hobocode
-
Michelle Rhee, the D.C. public schools' chancellor. And tell that to Central Falls, Rhode Island.You want an example of an "idea that has been proposed and then rejected by the teacher's union?" Then look no further than Central Falls, Rhode Island, where the teachers' union refused to sign off on a "transformational model" to improve test scores which would have included longer school days (after school tutoring) and teachers eating with the students at lunch. In that district, one of the country's poorest, the teachers (paragons of virtue who are "devoted" to the children) insisted on higher pay for the extra work, something the school district couldn't afford. But longer hours? Clearly a HEINOUS idea. I mean, shit, devoting more time to kids?!?! Oh, the humanity! Well, they rejected the notion of spending more time with kids during the day and at lunch and, as a result, they got their asses handed pink slips.
-
Don't you usually have a couple in your mouth at a time?
-
Aug 27, 2010 8:59:31 AM CDT
Here we go. Left-Wing nuts coming out of the woodwork again.
by icemonkey
-
Did you just learn that in your 7th grade study hall?
-
why should teachers have to do more work and not be compensated? Because teachers are supposed to be some kinds of fucking martyrs becasue they teach kids? Fuck you. It's a job like anyone else's.
-
See, I believe that children are our future. You have to teach them well and then let them lead the way. Just show them all the beauty they possess inside. Give them a sense of pride. It will remind us how it used to be.
-
She's about as anti-union as they come. since she's was appointed by Fenty all she's done is shit-can teachers and close schools.
-
or teachers unions I'll go balliistic. The motherfucking problem comes down to socio-economic inequality in this country. That is reason kids are not performing. Not fucking teachers just trying to do they best they can with undisciplined brats and limited resources.
-
...a bunch of people who are really more interested in whether Matthew Vaughn is going to screw up the new X-Men movie start breaking down the socio-economic climate in the country.
I also think it's pretty great that when a documentary about teaching is reviewed on the site about 50% of the talkbackers are suddenly teachers.
By the way, I'm a teacher too. And a Baptist minister in case this accidentally gets posted in the Last Exorcist forum. -
Aug 27, 2010 9:18:39 AM CDT
First fund schools properly, and then if that doesn't work...
by rbatty024
you can start attacking teachers. It's like arming the military with 19th century muskets to combat tanks, and then when they lose, you blame the men and not the equipment.
-
I'm not a teacher, but both of my parents were, and one now works for AFT. I also live in DC and have knowledge of the challenges this city faces with its educational system. So I'm not exactly pulling this shit out of my ass. And before anyone pulls out the tired "look at how well-funded DC schools are and they still suck" argument, you should know that it is the result of inequality. There are several excellent schools in this city, but an equal number are still underfunded because the money isn't distributed evenly. I help an all-volunteer, non-profit in DC that paints and landscapes schools in the district and let me tell you, many of the schools are literally crumbling.
-
If you don't like public school, send your child to private school. Why the fuck should I pay for your child to go to perochial school? Aren't you guys always pissed off that you should have to pay for other kids schooling? Oh, but when it's YOUR kid, THEN the gubment should pay for the best private school around. Yeah.....that makes fuckin' sense.So why would conservatives back something so completely hypocritical? Easy, because most private schools are christian, and christians are conservative by and large. Although it's illegal, Priests and Ministers constantly go on conservative rants going so far as doing mass mailings of "guides" that are heavily slanted and only include things THEY think are important. So NO, I don't want my tax dollars going to brainwash the next generation. If YOU get a choice about abortion funding, the I get that. Fair enough?
-
Again, I haven't seen the film so I can't comment on any possible actions in D.C. but what power does a union really have over a school district or a state? They donate money to politicians and lobby for bills but so do corporations. Their primary purpose is to negotiate and enforce a contract between the teachers and the school district. If a district, city, or state chooses to buckle under pressure from a union that's their choice. Unions can be fought and negotiated with. Do they protect bad teachers? Sometimes. But more often than not they are protecting good teachers from irrational administrators and parents who would try to violate a signed contract. The mess our country is in has far more to do with funding and lack of support in the home than anything else.
-
Nice.
-
Aug 27, 2010 10:02:57 AM CDT
Kids are getting dumber because of lack of funding for No Child
by return_of_fett
That has nothing to do with the fuckin' teacher's union.Even before conservatives destroyed the world economy they weren't funding NCLB. By and large they all decry the Board of Education because public school teachers actually teach facts, not mythology pretending to be facts.That's not to say public school teachers are all fantastic. I've had some bad ones. I've also had some bad ones when I went to Immaculate Heart of Mary as well.The fact remains that teachers are there because they care about other people and want to help them. This is the total antithesis of conservative doctrine so it pisses them off. The conservative doctrine is "I've got mine SO FUCK YOU!" That doesn't really translate well to teaching unless you are trying to mold little Hitlers like yourself. Go watch Jesus Camp for a good example of that shit.
-
You are my new favorite TBer.
-
Scrap computers and calculators in the class and have the kids hand in handwritten work. Let them learn to use what's between their ears first before they rely on technology to do it for them. That would be a BIG help. Remember, the people who designed the first generations of computers didn't have computers in their classes. They learned the hard way. But it worked.
-
I've taught (as assistant English language teacher) in Japan years back. Everybody could and usually did take tests. Difference being they tested to be allowed into the next grade as opposed to North America where we test to graduate from the current grade, thus giving the teacher an incentive to have more kids pass who shouldn't, otherwise the teacher looks bad.
-
Unions help and they also hinder. No one seems interested in mentioning the bureaucracy of school boards or, worse, the politicians. There was a case in Ontario, years back, where the MINISTER OF EDUCATION wrote to a university professor - who was writing a high school science text book - and told him he should avoid using the word 'evolution' in a chapter about astronomy when describing the life cycle of stars because it might upset the religious types. And we wonder why kids today are a bunch of ingoramuses? And that's as nothing compared to a later Minister of Education who hadn't even finished high school.
-
You're right about unions. There are many that need to be fixed or reformed. But not ALL unions. The ones who want ALL unions to be reformed are the Republicans who are jumping on the bandwagon to bring education to its knees. That's what scares me about this movie...that it will be so sensational in highlighting one particularly bad union that the general public will want to tear all unions down. (though in all honesty I've heard both sides, and can't judge if D.C.'s is really that bad)
-
Maybe I was wrong in regards to Japan. But remember, too, that Japan is a homogenous society of 60 million, while we're a racially and ethnically incredibly diverse society with 300 million. Remember too that Japanese society gives alot more respect to their teachers and elders in general.
-
Like many other organizations and types of organization, the Washington Teacher's Union suffered greatly from the corruption of one reprehensible individual. Her name was Barbara Bullock (Bollocks) and she was the union president. Between 1995 and 2002 she embezzled millions from the union, literally stealing from teachers and students for her own gain. She, along with a small group of co-conspirators illegally diverted $5 million from the union and quite suddenly began wearing custom-made dresses and carrying handbags by Louis Vuitton and Chanel. She also used union funds to buy an exercise bike and treadmill. then after losing weight she just had to buy a whole new designer wardrobe spending $150,000 at Neiman Marcus, $20,000 at a wigmaker, and over $500,000 at a dress shop outsdie Baltimore. She is not a good person. The union is stil lrecovering from her greed.
-
Well, then Barbara Bullock deserves to rot in prison for what she did.
-
Aug 27, 2010 10:59:20 AM CDT
The last time education was adequately funded...
by harryknowlesnonexistentinceptionreview
...was in the late 1950's after Sputnik scared the bejeezus out of everybody. And what happened? You got a huge surplus of kids with the knowledge to question their current situation leading to the protests and uprisings of the 60's. No way are the elites going to let THAT happen again! So in the 70's, starting with Nixon, education was massively DEfunded, leading to our current sorry situation.
-
And, Harry, you should probably learn a little more about the situation before subscribing so readily to the view pushed by WAITING FOR SUPERMAN.
Teacher's unions are a convenient villain, because, sure, everyone knows and has had some woefully crappy, should-be-fired teachers in their day. But the real problem is [a] teachers and public schools are supposed to single-handedly ameliorate very big, very deep, and very wide problems of social and economic inequality in our country, and [b] they're supposed to do it while being paid exactly shite.
I'm not a teacher, for what it's worth. I don't even have kids. But it's pretty clear teachers and teachers' unions are scapegoats here for larger, much more intractable problems that don't fit as well into a 90-minute documentary format.
Along those lines, and since it's by the same director, shame on AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH for fudging the science on climate change for dramatic effect. Climate change is real, climate change is happening, climate change is very scary. You can make those very important points, even to dumb people, without resorting to some of the highly dubious tactics in TRUTH -- some of those Gore-graphs were so skewed as to be ridiculous. It was like watching cops trying to frame a guilty man. -
...A Baptist minister, too? Have you been fired yet for doing the nsty with a member of your flock and ended up taking a job at Wal-Mart? I understand that's the standard Baptist minister career path.
-
Aug 27, 2010 11:23:23 AM CDT
How many geeks are gonna show up dressed like Superman?
by jehovahs_witness
And eat a tray of nachos with cheese and an extra large Dr. Pepper while watching this movie?
-
She did go to prison but is probably out now. She was originally sentenced to nine years in prison but it was reduced to two years after she sold out two of her fellow conspirators. No honor among thieves I guess.
-
Check out eduwonk.com. You sound like someone with a good head on their shoulders regarding the state of education in this country.
-
But I didn't have sex with her. I didn't even touch her. Okay, I touched her a little, but that's not the point. The point is...we need to put food on our children.
-
Shame that she got out early.
-
Bingo! We desperately need to do two things (more, but it's a start): tell people "OK, feel free to come here, but you do things OUR way. If you have a better idea, run it through the system and see if it's accepted. Don't go dashing off in your own direction" and, tell parents "If you don't have time with your dual careers to take care of your kids, don't have any. Teachers aren't there to fill in for what you can't be bothered to do. Teach your kids respect and then let them loose on society." I suspect a lot of our problems would diminish substantially.
-
I don't think "doing things our way" is practical (not meaning to argue with you on the ideal, though), because I don't feel that people are self-ruminating (is that a word?) enough to understand their own culture. And language is a whole different issue; most migrants want to learn English, but it's difficult and time-consuming and does not come naturally. But yeah, I totally agree with you on the respect thing...One thing that pisses me off is that everyone wants to change the educational system, but everyone is also too scared to point fingers at the state of parenting.
-
sorry folks, but the real problems today stem from the breakdown of the family unit in America. Children are either the products of single parent households, or both parents work and dont spend time with their kids. Parents today see school as nothing more than free daycare and are too wrapped up in themselves to take the time to actually help mold their children into responsible human beings. We are a country of people raised by the Television, and it is showing. It is not teachers faults, or the schools faults.
-
Longer schools days. additional classes, After school programs and shortening the summer vacation. Why? is it for the students that they say they love? No, its becasue their lazy asses want to have more time off. Summer vacation is based on a agricultural model when kids needed to help with the crops. This aint the case anymore folks. But, parents are to blame too. Kids cant learn without an environment that encourages learning. Most parents are so wiped that they could care less if kids study or not. The bottome line is, money is pissed away in the system when it could be put to good use. Schools need to account for every penny they spend and how they spend it. If it is not for the students, then it is wasted.
-
The only thing you ever write that I look forward to is the weekly dvd reviews...and you still havent posted this weeks. Stop wasting time talking about some stupid doc that nobody is going to bother watching anyway.
-
I just became a father and I don't care how busy or stressed I am, I won't let him be a fuckin' TV zombie and I will never be too busy to spend time with him, including educational time.I know there are a lot of deadbeat parents out there that think they're doing more than the their fair share just by being present and it pisses me off. I am so honored to be given the opportunity to raise a child and I'm not going to waste it.My son will learn respect, to pay attention when he is being spoken to and to always help others. He will also have the self respect to strive to better himself.This is MY job and not a school or teacher's job. If my boy is not paying attention in class or is otherwise being disrespectful to his fellow students or the teacher, I will correct it. I will appreciate the teacher for doing what they can to teach my son.Too many people think of their child's teacher as some kind of nanny. I consider them a working professional that has decided to take a low-paying job because they care about helping children in their formative years. If more people thought of teachers that way we wouldn't have half the problems we do in education today.
-
Dated a teacher for a few years back when. She despaired of the state of things. When she was growing up her parents would attend every parent/teacher night. As did mine. Now? She said she considered herself lucky if she had a handful of parents turn up for her classes.
-
If you were being paid jack shit already, would you want longer days, more classes, more school programs, and shorter summer vacations, which many teachers use to get a second seasonal job to supplement their crapy salaries, would you want it? I doubt it. Oh but becasue they are teachers they have to be selfless martyrs. That is horseshit.
-
Aug 27, 2010 1:48:20 PM CDT
The problem with education these days is lack of leadership.
by snake foreskin
And Muslims.
-
Computahs:http://tinyurl.com/2egjtk
-
Our educational system does have massive problems that need to be resolved, but anyone who thinks that there is some sort of "magic bullet" easy solution is a moron. The bottom line to me is that SOCIETALLY, we don't value education as much as we should. It's why Ivy League graduates are seen as "elites", and disparaged as such instead of being seen as leading lights. It's why the candidate who has a sub-Bachelor's Degree level vocabulary is seen as preferable to the candidate who is an "intellectual", because the former has such "just folks" appeal. We don't value education, and as a result, we don't value educators, either monetarily or - increasingly - socially. Trying to determine who is at fault is a difficult proposition. Which is not to say that calling attention to the issue isn't important, and shouldn't be done.
-
I thought this was a Flaming Lips concert movie. Got me all excited!
-
"Denied!"
-
I need this. now. Make it so, fat man.
-
Why'd you have to sched WFS against the Austin premiere of Machete? I pick... Machete.
-
Truth is most blacks can't test on the same level as other groups - they (most) are predisposed with a lower IQ - simply because of upbringing and the allowance of stupidity in their daily life. A magazine tested students ranging from 1st to 12th and found almost all black students aimed much lower when it came to life goals - that is if they had goals at all. Not only do they reject any education offered to them in favor of criminal activity, but they actually disrupt the education of the students around them. Deal with this America if you truly want to pick apart a problem and fix it. This is not something you can throw money at to fix.
-
...I didn't see anyone mention the school kids themselves. And by that I mean the fact that in our society today there is a disturbing trend:It has somehow become UNCOOL to be smart and make high grades. Even the best teachers would find it difficult to teach kids that have zero interest in learning.
-
Sorry Damned
-
If you look 6 posts up toshiro pretty much mentioned that exact thing.
-
that I don't read the talkbacks closely enough before I post.
-
I agree with HoboCode
-
Undervaluing academic achievement is definately one of the big issues. It was something like 55% of voters with bachelor degrees voted for Kerry and Obama, 75% of voters with degrees beyond a BA voted for Kerry and Obama, and 90% of voters who were college professors voted for Kerry and Obama. Bush and the Republicans were successfully label Kerry as an "intellectual elitist," as if it were somehow a bad thing to use your brain. I was watching some tea party event in the last few months where a member of congress went after Rachel Maddow, not for anything she had done or said (which would have been fair game), but for "having a PhD in something that doesn't matter." The Republican Party thrives on educational failure because skills of higher critical thinking bring their messes into the limelight. It is completely in the interest of the Republican Party, concious or unconcious, to see decent education fail in this country, because a failing educational system manufactures new Republicans.
-
...on all of this. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to recite Whitney Houston lyrics and falsely claim to be a teacher and a Baptist minister. But had I known that doing the nasty with a member of my flock was a perk, I would have pretended to be one years ago.
-
you're picking this over Machete?
-
Proliferating charter schools at the expense of public schools is part of his agenda.
-
freedom of speech is a right, and nobody should ever be censored, especially not on the internet. You may not like what Profesor_Monster said, and if that's the case, dont read his posts. But he should certainly be allowed to express his thoughts even if others dont like them.
-
- the problems in our school systems will remain. I'm only passing the news - not creating it. Remember ebonics and how a large section of blacks wanted to change the speech of america to include improper dialect and slang. Read "Absent" - it reports on the statistics of how good schools go bad and the ghettoization of America. Don't believe me? Visit some inner city schools on the brink of collapse thanks to the minority. I was reading last night the effect all of the refugees from New Orleans (during the Hurricane evacuation) had on being transplanted to Houston - the schools who took in these kids (poverty stricken) were nice and offered supplies and lunches for free to them - a few short years later - those schools are now fenced and guarded by police. Crime (which was non-existant) is now a daily routine. Sorry if the real world doesn't work the way it does in Hallmark commercials - but the facts are out there.
-
"Ohohohohh, won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!" In all seriousness, first, there should be a vehicle (that actually works) by which crappy, coasting teachers who aren't doing their jobs, can be fired. While I am not a teacher, both of my parents-in-law are/were, along with several of my friends. The stories they;ve told about teachers who just don't give a fuck, and whose students suffer as a result, are truly infuriating. That may sound somewhat anecdotal in nature as far as proof goes, but I'm 100% convinced that they're out there, and most of you reading this can no doubt spout off similar stories. If that can be achieved (i.e. firing crappy teachers,) once the wheat is separated from the chaff, the ones that are left that are truly dedicated to their job and their students ought to be paid the same, or more, as doctors. The good ones are every bit as important to our society. Do that, and you'll draw more quality individuals to the profession. (new paragraph...how the f*ck do you do that on here?) I know that just scratches the surface of the many many issues affecting the education system in this country, but it'd be a good start. As many others have stated, the role of the parent is even more important than that of the teacher. I'll not get into that since others have done an excellent job of making the point up above in this thread...
-
Let's face it - many, many teachers flat out SUCK at their jobs. They hate kids, they hate parents, they hate the system and they are generally bitter miserable sacks of shit. These aren't people fit to teach children. They are mostly people who should be hauled away to mental institutions. To top it off way too many teachers are grossly over compensated for their jobs, such as the example in Central Falls High School...the greedy pricks weren't happy with what they got, they wanted even more, meanwhile the neighborhood around them was crumbling to shit and their failing students were piss-poor broke. Teachers are worse than MTA workers.
-
...should have their fucking head examined. Oh, so you don't like something you read on the internet? UH OH - BETTER CALL THE INTERNET POLICE TO TAKE THE BAD MAN AWAY RIGHT NOW!
g - t - f - o - h -
No government wants a nation of intelligent citizens, they want morons. With intelligence, questions are asked and plans devised. With stupidity, the masses can be spoon fed and conditioned to accept the garbage without questioning it which is exactly what america is primarily composed of. Everything starts with the government and the bottom line is that they want americans to be dumb so they pump worthless bullshit into them any way they can. TV, music, movies...Those are all simple distractions to keep the thinking to a bare minimum and to make worthless shit the norm and so far they are succeeding with flying colors.
-
...and I've made reference to it in TalkBacks before, so I'm not blowing smoke. My report from the front lines is as follows:
* It's not a rich/poor problem. I teach in a pretty high SES district, and our upper-middle class white student body is populated by an influential minority of douchebag dumbasses (both teachers and parents) that ruin it for everybody. In as highly litigious a society in which we live, all it takes is for a few parents to complain about something, and entire new district-wide policies are created to appease them. When parents are allowed to dictate educational policy instead of the educators, you know all hell is gonna break loose.
* Anybody who says teachers are over-compensated is a total fucking moron. You do understand that our 8 hours of contract time on campus is generally eaten up by instructional time. All planning and grading and prep time is on your own time. I didn't leave school until almost 8:00 pm yesterday, and do you think I get paid overtime?
* Anybody who bitches about teachers getting summers off is fucking stupid. We call it a 'mental-health break'. Yes, there are some total loser teachers who suck at their job and probably make thier students dumber (and I hope those people rot in hell), but when you do the job right, and I try as hard as I can to do just that, the profession of teaching could probably make a pretty strong go at being one of the hardest fucking jobs on the planet. You start with the burden of knowing the kids' futures could very well depend on your success in educating them, then add to it the fact that most of them won't realize that until they're grown up and presently could give two shits; then add to that the eggshells you're walking on to keep district beaureaucrats and parents happy; then add to that the impossibly tedious individualized special needs and mandated modifications; then add to that the lack of sleep and social life due to the immense drain on your time and mental stamina. And other shit I'm not mentioning. Doing this year round would mostly lead to a lot of suicides. -
I'll agree that they've concocted some pretty tough stipulations that do create problems sometimes, but from personal experience, they are quite useful:
Several years ago, a colleague of mine and I had seperate, but analagous run-ins with irrate parents. My colleague, a high school teacher, was accused of having an inappropriate relationship with one of her students. Not by the student, or the student's parents, mind you, but by the parent of completely different student. She was placed on administrative leave until the district could 'conduct a thorough investigation'. She called up a union rep and was back on the job two days later, and was subsequently cleared of any wrong doing.
I, at the time, was not a union member, so was pretty much fucked when my incident occured. The incident was this: a student accessed my computer, in defiance of school rules about students accessing teacher's computers, and pulled up a short story I had written and emailed to myself so that I could print it out and have a friend (another teacher) read it for critique and proofing. The story had some bad language in it, which apparently offended this student who went home and told her parents. When I was put on administrative leave while the district 'conducted a thorough investigation', I wondered how a few bad words could warrent me being removed from the classroom. I was told that the parent was concerned about the content of the story, which they believed contained referenced to child pornography. It didn't, and when I suggested we let the parent read the story to see for herself, I was told by my administators that the parent didn't want to read the story.
Not being a member of the union, I basically had to sit back and eat every spoonfull of shit the district and that parent wanted to feed me. I ended up missing the entire end of the school year (about 3 weeks), and had to wait until summer for the parent's misplaced anger to die down, and the district to finally back off and let me back in the classroom. Oh, and at one point, it was recommended to me, by a district administrator, that I should resign my job.
All of that based on a parent complaint that wasn't even based in reality. The only reality the district cared about was the rumor and insinuations this parent might spread, and I was left to fend for myself.
After comparing my dilimna with that of my high school colleague, I very quickly became a member of a teacher union, and will remain so until the day I die. -
...the Central Falls High School teachers weren't over paid? The median income for that area is 22,000. However many of the teachers (who obviously lived in far better neighborhoods) were already getting paid between 72 and 80 thousand dollars a year...in a school where nearly EVERY ONE WAS FUCKING FAILING."Anybody who says teachers are over-compensated is a total fucking moron." Yeah okay, I hope you are enjoying your paid Summer break, I mean your "mental-health break"...It's a good thing EVERYONE ELSE ON THE FUCKING PLANET DOESN'T HAVE A JOB THAT STRESSES THEM OUT JUST AS MUCH IF NOT MORE. Too bad we can't all have "mental health breaks". How about going and working deep down in a fucking mine only to have it cave in on your head and then be trapped for months in the darkness hoping to be dug out. Yeah that's just as bad as having a difficult time with little Larry who wont sit down, or Mary who chews gum in class.
-
...those are the only types of problems we ever deal with. The kid who won't sit down and the kid who chews gum. That's all.
After comments made above, I can't imagine anyone believing me, but my father is actually a miner in Kentucky, and I have all the respect in the world for him and the men he works beside.
There isn't anyone who has ever taught that will walk away disparaging the profession the way some people do. Until you've spent an entire year in the classroom, you can't really speak intelligently about the pressures and stresses that are dealt with.
Its the easiest thing in the world to bitch about something you have no actual first-hand knowledge of (although I'm sure that would never happen in an AICN talkback), but if you think the stress maxes out with bubble gum and ADD addled Johnny, you are, as previously stated, a total fucking moron. -
Name calling. Okay...well you have clearly won this heated debate hands down. You called me a moron twice! How can I possibly hope to top that? Also, thanks for the heads up that teachers are apparently on some magical pedestal and cannot be criticized unless of course you are a teacher yourself. It's funny that you mention your dad the miner because my sister is a teacher and agrees with me 100%. She's even more vocal about it and it's her own profession - although I'm sure you'll find a lame way to disqualify her views as well. We both feel that most teachers are in fact overcompensated miserable human beings who are genuinely BAD at their jobs. My guess is the guilt you feel knowing you are part of the problem and what I said applies to you specifically is exactly why you are calling me names and getting emotional. Your actions seem like a similar ploy any childish simpleton backed into a wall would do. If you really are a teacher you have thoroughly proven my point tonight.Many, many teachers flat out SUCK at their jobs...and apparently life as well.
-
I see what you're saying, but the welfare of the students is inherent in the fact that the teacher shows up every day. In the classroom, there are two sides of the equation: The Teacher and The Student.
The Teacher commonly bends over backwards to find ways to help students become successful. 'Concern for the kids' is the job description. A school is nothing but a building full of adults doing nothing but being concerned for kids.
The problem is that kids frequently don't have any concern for adults. That's not a knock on kids. You learn very quickly that teenagers just haven't matured into that yet. Later they'll look back and be thankful for what their teachers did for that, but in the present moment, they are rather egotistical, have zero ability to consider the consequences of their actions. Combine that with parents who will almost without exception, take their kid's side in any kind of dispute. And I'm not even saying that's a bad thing. Parents very much SHOULD look out for their kids.
But what all of this leads to is nobody being on the side of the teachers, so that when an emotionally immature student does something rash and ill-conceived which could potentially devestate the career of an innocent teacher for no other reason than that kid is in a pissy mood, it is detremental that someone be looking out for the teachers, and the unions fulfill that role.
As I said, I don't for one second believe that unions are completely innocent where public education's ills are concerned, but part of their mandate is to protect teachers who very frequently need protecting. -
I'm sorry if you and your sister have sucky and shitty public school memories. Maybe your sister is so miserable teaching because she is one of the sucky and shitty teachers. Or maybe she's a good teacher who has been ground down by the stress of the job and sees things through a lense of darkness and gloom.
If the two of you think 'most teachers are overcompensated miserable human beings', I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't know many teachers. Its a profession that very quickly spits out the people who hate it. There is a HUGE turnover rate among new teachers, by which I mean teachers in their first three years. The ones who last beyond that are generally the good ones, and miserable though a few may be, they keep coming back because they want to do right by the students they've been called to educate. -
I'm certain that my sister is as good a teacher as you think you are maxwell's hammer.
Should I even mention the Central Falls High School teachers for a third time? You've managed to dodge that topic TWICE without so much as a peep on the subject - you have however managed some name calling and some obnoxiously self righteous ranting. The best was your ridiculous focus on my example of kids chewing gum. It's interesting that you deemed that comment more important to discuss than the Central Falls High School teachers. For the record, hoping that fellow "bad" teachers rot in hell seems quite juvenile to me. -
Just wanted to poke my motherfuckin' head in and say that this is the last topic I even expected to see being debated on AICN forums. That is all.
-
Welcome to the TB...are you enjoying the discussion? I'm having some fun with a "teacher" right now.
-
Well, I'm going into my 10th year teaching, and I don't make anywhere near $72,000. And on my campus, most of the core teachers (math / science / english / history) already put in 25 extra minutes a day (at the very least) in after- and before-school tutoring for zero extra pay. They do not do this because their feet are being held over the coals, but because they do everything they can to give students an opportunity to succeed.
If some douche-bag school board in Rhode Island votes to pay their faculty giant salaries while the town collapses around them and failure rates shoot through the stratosphere, well, that's a pretty easy scenario to call bullshit on. But its not even close to representative of the entire profession of teaching.
That would be like saying every vegetable is miserable and horrible and wretched just because you don't like the taste of spinach.
-
...everything is fair game at AICN!
And by 'having fun with a teacher', fat_rancor guy means he's making sweeping and uninformed generalizations about a noble profession he knows nothing about. -
I forgot, I'm not a teacher and thus I cannot comment on teachers.(the magic pedestal thing from earlier)
We'll leave my older sister who has been a teacher for 16 years (longer than you) and all other close relatives out of the equation as well. Also, because I've lived in a VACUUM my entire life I've not read anything or had any personal contact with any teachers or professors ever. I wonder though if I were in here gushing and praising teachers and their "noble profession" perhaps then maxwell's hammer would take me seriously? As it stands max you've now spent the last few posts stumbling to keep up with me and my "sweeping and uninformed generalizations". Maybe it's time to go to bed and admit you've lost this round. Face it - if you are in fact even a teacher and happen to be a good one than that's awesome. If however you look at yourself and admit you are mediocre or suck at your job than I hope tonight I've taught YOU something. Either improve at your job or move onto something else. -
I won't claim to be a great teacher, but I know for a fact I try every day to be the best teacher I can be. The programs I am involved with and in charge of are successful ones, and I have former students in high school and college making big strides toward becoming independent, critically thinking adults. That's your goal as a teacher, and on those terms, I think I'm doing okay.
As for whether or not you are qualified to have an opinion about teachers: of course you are, but I question the basis on which you establish your opinions. If you hold that Central Falls ISD and being related to a teacher validates your opinion that 'most teachers are overcompensated miserable human beings', then I would suggest you and I are having different conversations.
I am describing the profession of teaching from the perspective of someone who has been doing the job for a decade. You seem to be marching around the ring, like a WWF wrestler, proclaiming how awesome you are and having fun inventing colorful ways to insult your opponent. -
Shows how much you know, it's called the WWE now and has been called that since 2002. The company changed its name after they lost a legal battle with the World Wildlife Fund over the initials WWF.
-
...i defer to the opinions of the professional wrestling expert.
-
parents. News flash to parent's, your Johnny or Suzie isn't special. Pull your head out of your ass and do some god damn parenting. If your can't do grade level work but owns a computer (for facebooking) a cell phone or a game console you the parent are the fucking problem. Spend some time with YOUR child and make sure their home work is done correctly. Hold YOUR child to a higher standard than the teachers do. Here's a nifty parenting trick, it's called discipline. Learn what it is and how to use it. Then fucking use it. You are not your child's friend you are you child's BEST hope to be properly educated. If it means you have to turn off what ever ridiculous reality program you're watching and pay attention to your child then do so.
-
Again I get the feeling that if I were simply gushing over how awesome and noble teachers were you would not be questioning the "basis of my opinions". Here's what it comes down to. A teachers job is to teach, do it well and do everything that comes along with it. In that way it is akin to a billion other professions and deserves no extra special praise. It's my belief that teachers as a whole should be held accountable for their part in Americas shitty educational system. Way too many students are FAILING. All I ask is that you and other teachers take responsibility and admit you are a key factor in the crumbling system. Yes I know at this point the knee-jerk finger pointing at parents, students, administration and government will kick in. Ignore that for a moment and ACTUALLY TRY LOOKING AT IT FROM AN OUTSIDERS PERSPECTIVE. You hold a little too dearly the fact that you are "someone who has been doing the job for a decade". Perhaps you can't see the forest for the trees.
-
Aug 28, 2010 1:43:47 AM CDT
"...i defer to the opinions of the professional wrestling expert
by fat_rancor_keeper
"...i defer to the opinions of the professional wrestling expert."
Your logic is all kinds of awesome.
If I were to tell you how much RAM was on the latest Macs would I be a computer expert? -
The fault in your arguement comes down to your statement: "All I ask is that you and other teachers take responsibility and admit you are a key factor in the crumbling system."
There are any number of things that contribute to problems in public education. Bad parenting, ill-concieved state and federal mandates, an entitlement culture which creates arrogant and lazy students, misguided district administrators, misplaced priorities, and yes, in some cases, bad teachers.
It is a tapestry of problems that weave together into a big traffic jam that prevents optimal performance.
Please explain how my colleagues and I are a 'key factor in the crumbling system'? Oh what do you base that opinion? You don't have to gush over the nobility of teaching, but please justify why you think teachers are the root of all the problems.
And 'My sister is a teacher and she says so' and 'Cedar Falls ISD' don't really hold up as isolated pieces of evidence. -
About that...another problem with the system, by the way, is that teachers are constantly being forced to follow programs and guidelines designed by government officials, community leaders, and parents (i.e. Outsiders) who don't actually have any clue about the inner workings of the classroom. The context in which teachers teach is akin to a heart surgeon being instructed on how to operate by the patient's mom based on some stuff she learned about hospitals on an episode of 'ER', then blaming the doctor when the patient died.
-
...looks like you predictably missed (ignored) what I said about knee-jerk finger pointing. LoL, it's hilarious that you literally followed up my commentary with the exact actions I asked you to momentarily set aside merely for the sake of objectivity. "...and yes, in some cases, bad teachers." Thank you for at least throwing that in at the very end, although I bet it pained you to admit it. If you want me to go through a laundry list of horrible teachers I can but I think that's quite boring. I'm sure everyone here is tired of hearing about stories such as the middle school teacher from Southern California who was recently arrested for teaching while drunk out of her skull. (charged with felony child endangerment) Or perhaps the NUMEROUS cases of horny female teachers having affairs with their 13-15 year old students. I'm sure nobody wants to hear about the 2 teachers arrested TODAY for child porn. Then of course there was the naked lesbian romp from a few months ago. Add to that the FACT that students are failing and dropping out in America schools at alarming rates and we are the laughing stock of other nations. Indeed it is a tapestry of problems and teachers are not a small part of the equation...they are at the heart of it.
-
Actually you were the one compelled to bring up your father the miner.
-
Don't breed.
-
... equals failing as a nation.
-
* I invoked my father to point out that I do indeed respect what miners do (which I think is fair). You invoked your sister as some pseudo-evidence that you are qualified to criticize teachers (which is bullshit).
* Nobody is claiming that all teachers are perfect, hence my concession that some bad teachers. But that's kind of like claiming that the airline industry is the most deadly mode of transportation in the entire world, then listing as proof all the plane crashes you've ever heard of. It is specious reasoning, as you are neglecting the mention the immense volume of planes that take off and land every day without having any problems whatsoever. So for every negative teacher incident you mention, there are hundreds of thousands who've never done anything wrong. If I start naming off incidents of sexual abuse by a family member, does that mean you'll disown your entire family and live your life isolated from them even though none of them have done anything wrong?
Anecdotes do not equal systematic evidence.
* As far as me using the evidence you said I couldn't use, that's kind of like asking me solve '1 + 1', but I can't pussy-out and say the answer is '2'. Just because your little laundry list happens to contain most of the tangible causes for difficulties in public schools doesn't mean that me restating them is some kind of cop-out.
* I'm sorry you feel so pessimistic about the attitudes and motivations of American teachers. You claim we're all miserable and horrible, and most of my reponses to you are a way of pointing out that 'No, we're not'. There are lots of other reasons for public education problems than the sweeping generalization, "All Teachers Suck". I mention that I've taught for 10 years as a way of showing you that I have a legitimate perspective of things from the inside, not as a means of belittling your opinion. If you want to insist that you know better based on...well, based on nothing that I can see...then go ahead. Please don't have children so you never have to legally expose another child to the horror house that is public schools.
For the rest of you, know that teachers are human and not always perfect, be we do our damndest to do right by your kids, and even when they miss the mark, campus and district administrators are constantly concocting and implementing strategy after strategy to get kids grades and interest levels up. We come up against obstacals from every direction, and we get frustrated and jaded, but we always show up to work and try to make your kids have the most positive and productive experience that is possible under the circumstances imposed on us. If some fat, rancorous guy tells you that we all suck and are miserable and are overcompensated, well, his sister is a teacher and knows an awful lot about the WWF...I mean, the WWE (thanks fat_rancor_keeper!) so maybe you should listen to him instead. -
...for a teacher, my proofreading skills totally blow. Thanks, AICN, for no edit function!!
-
...Hey, maybe it would reduce public school class sizes. As much as I love having 32 kids in every class, it does stretch one a bit thin. And I'm sure they'd learn more on the job than they would in a public school anyway.
-
Okay enough, I know you don't think so but aside from a few jokes I've actually been very patient and decent toward you. I've actually attempted a dialogue with you but I now realize it's impossible. This has been like talking to a fucking 10 year old with a learning disability. Truthfully speaking you are an arrogant fucking twat who has done nothing but dodge every point I've made like a pussy and PREDICTABLY countered and cherry-picked my views with emotional nonsense. Plus, I haven't mentioned one thing about public schools in particular yet you've continually bashed them as if that's been an actual talking point of mine. Where's your fucking brains? Your childish name calling, sarcastic comments and bullshit agenda to put teachers on some untouchable pedestal have now grown to ridiculous levels. And your fairy tail about your "daddy" the "miner" GUARANTEED is just convenient horse shit. For the record even if you are a teacher, (which I hope IS NOT the case) the good that you mentioned you've done pales in comparison to the hard work of others I'm actually HAPPY to know. I'm not saying that to make you feel bad, it's just a fact you haven't said a single thing that you've done as a teacher that has impressed me. Stop pointing fingers max, you ARE one of the bad ones that much is very clear. You are a self righteous douche who is in complete DENIAL of your share of responsibility. You and everyone like you make me fucking sick. PLEASE RESIGN ASAP. Do not continue working with children now or ever. If you have kids (which I doubt because it sounds like any woman would find you utterly repulsive) kindly put them up for adoption. Vice versa if you are a woman...I'm unsure at this point what I'm dealing with. Also, "fat rancor keeper" is a reference to a character in Star Wars. Your lack of knowledge in basic pop culture and especially for your own profession is fucking embarrassing.
Lastly, not once have I seriously said that "all teachers suck". Thankfully not all teachers are like you. This convo was meant to be about the ones who do happen to suck. However, your inability to stay on that topic without finger pointing is a clear symptom of exactly what's wrong. If I were railing on someone from a teachers union they would tell me the same shit. "Not all union reps are bad...look at the horrid, greedy teachers and govt. officials. If I were speaking with a parent they would give their side of the story and point their fingers at everyone else. MEANWHILE THE CIRCLE OF SHIT CONTINUES. Maybe someday, somehow someone will man the fuck up and say YES I am part of the problem - now how can I make things BETTER? Instead all we have are corrupt, ignorant, self righteous assholes who troll internet forums and spout bullshit about how "hard they work" - meanwhile ALL OF OUR CHILDREN ARE FAILING. Your "best" and others "best" obviously isn't fucking good enough Max,. Wake up - you suck - again....please resign. -
I think you should just shut the fuck up and stick with discussions about Hulk Hogan and other historical figures. That seems to be inside your realm of ability.
-
maxwell's hammer...Oops I mean RETURN_of_FETT, my bad. I didn't mean to make you cry.
-
...he actually wears an ass for a hat.
-
* Who said my kids were failing? Our campus was rated 'Exemplary' last year by the TEA (no, that's not a union, its the Texas Educational Agency) and is one of the highest performing schools in our district.
* please offer some evidence that I am a bad teacher. You obviously feel very strongly about this, and if you can offer some critique, I'll be happy to listen.
* Are you really trying to claim higher moral ground by touting your 'pop culture' knowledge of things like professional wrestling and obscure Star Wars characters (the keeper's name is Malakili, by the way, and he'd sob like a baby if he heard you call him fat)?
* why do you wear an ass for a hat? -
I don't cry over idiot turds like you getting owned on the internet, I applaud it. I was merely suggesting you tuck tail and run before getting owned anymore. But hey, if you want to play Gimp from Pulp Fiction, be my guest. Watching you get slapped around like the bitch you are is a fun way to pass the time. Just make sure to tqake time out to brush your tooth and reload all the guns in the gunrack of your pickup truck you fucking cartoon character. I heard you got kicked out of the Klan for having skidmarks on your sheet from picking your ass with it. Bad call Ripley, bad call.
-
i went to a private school and a public school. yes there are obviosly problems outside of the actual teachers, but rancor is making a good point. teachers are as much of the problem they just wont admit it. I cannot tell you how many teachers i had growing up that were either just ok or flat out awful. it was like they just hated their job and everything that came along with it. i think it's wrong to write off the cases of teachers sleeping with their students, getting arrested or whatever. thats insulting to their victims.just my opinion.
-
cry cry cry
-
I'd never write off those incidents, but their importance lies in the effects they have in individual cases, not in what they have to say about the entire profession of teaching.
also, I agree that there are such things as bad teachers. I just take offense with the way some frame that part of the problem. I don't think you're trying to insult me on purpose, but I do take offense at statements like "teachers are as much of the problem they just won't admit it". That statement implies that I am personally responsible for public school's ills and that I just won't admit it. Do I have good days and bad in the classroom? Absolutely, but I also know that I am not personally responsible for too-large class sizes, student apathy and egotism, poor parenting, gimicky educational strategies that districts mandate which change every couple of months when some new fad blows into educational literature, administrators who want to emphasize standardized test scores instead of developing critical thinking skills that can't be assesed with a multiple choice test, budgetary cutbacks that limit campus resources, etc...
Bad or burnt out teachers don't cause all of those problems. All of the above contribute heavily to why teachers get burnt out. And even with all that, the burnt-out teachers are the minority, not the other way around.
And as i said, its a huge convoluted tapestry, and there are no easy solutions, but shifting the burden for the whole mess squarely onto the backs of the teachers isn't even close to the solution. -
...and learned what I needed to learn. I had some great teachers and if they weren't great I learned the material myself. I was, and am, a big reader. That's where a lot of my education comes from.
Try and go teach at an inner city school(I sub'ed for a while), they don't give a shit. Neither do their parents. You can't blame everything on teachers.
If my kid came home and said "Daddy, I want to learn but the teacher isn't doing a good job of teaching." Well, I'd go to some meeetings and teach my kid at home.
I'm just so tired of whiny fucks blaming everything on someone else. -
...all I had was a textbook and a desk. Resources. Just pay attention and show up. What do you need a fucking satellite linked laptop to know the difference between their, there, and they're?
-
We can blame rubber rooms on unions.We can blame welfare for enabling the destruction of the family unit.We can blame elected officials that impose higher taxes that fuel this machine.Case in point... The recent initiative by Michelle Obama regarding school DINNER programs. Is it about ensuring children eat and eat right? Or is it about employing more union dues paying drones?
-
...we can (likely) blame _YOU_ for electing those officials that impose higher taxes that fuel this machine.The Department of Education hasn't produced a net positive for more than a half century. Let's try another way, please.
-
I'd love to see you do the math that connects some of those suppositions you just made. How does the welfare destroy the family unit? How do taxes hurt schools? (the willingness of my district's citizens to pay higher property taxes is one of the things that enables its schools to achieve high performance levels). How does kids eating well lead to more people being in unions?
Dude, I'm as cynical as the next guy, but you really think there is an ulterior motive for wanting kids to eat healthier?
Concerning Rubber Rooms: its not Unions that create that cock-up. Unions have simply insured that accused teachers get a fair hearing. It is the districts themselves that understaff and underfund investigative branches that lead to the stupidly ridiculous turnaround times in clearing specific teachers' cases. What would you prefer happen? That every time some pissed off kid accuses a teacher of some inappropriate action, the district just toss the accused out on their ass without a hearing?
Actually, the way some of you seem to despise educators so much, I guess maybe that's exactly what you want.
As it stands, the unions demand a fair process by which a district can determine guilt. The district is the one who drags it out to forever resulting in teachers piled up in rubber rooms not teaching and getting paid anyway. -
..I think we can all agree the public education system is broken, which is my number one argument against a public healthcare system. If you need proof that a government takeover of a system that works well privately is a bad idea, simply look at education and you will quickly see that public schools flounder while private schools succeed. Same goes for those Obama loving unions, they're the ones holding real "change" and "progress" back. Democrats are the biggest hypocrites of all.
-
in a rural county in Virginia in the 1970's, I know precisely where we jumped the shark. Parents who are too self-absorbed to become part of their children's education by reading to them and later making sure homework is done. Educators who are hamstrung by our litigious society, and cannot discipline unruly students. Also there is no shame in truancy or poor academic performance. Hell, my teachers spanked the crap out of me when I acted out, and my dad beat me senseless when I came home with a "D" in 9th grade World History. That little motivational moment helped me to see the light, later graduating 3rd in my high school class. Now two master's degrees later, I'm thankful there were consequences in my family for poor academic performance. That's something you pillow biters will never understand. Right now my god-daughter is 7, and cannot read. She says, "reading is stupid," and her mom and dad do nothing except buy her more games for Nintendo DS. If she were my kid, not only would we read every night, but there would be no DS until improvement was shown. Also, if I heard the "stupid" comment, she's get a spanking that would make her think twice. Shocking, I know, but that's how we used to roll, and it certainly worked for me.
-
We can put a man on the Moon, but we can't edit Talkbacks. Oh shit, we can't put a man on the Moon anymore either...
-
I just want to say that you seem like you have a good attitude toward your profession, and I'm glad you have stood your ground in this talkback. Now, quit responding to someone who is persistently and aggressively trying to make you feel like you are personally (at least partially) responsible for the education problem.
-
...there is pleasure to be had in watching someone with no actual arguement devolve from uninformed complaining to name-calling to silence.
Plus, there were a few other people poking around who I traded more civil and intelligent barbs with.
I know I'm not the problem, and as a teacher, I have good first-hand insight into what is. And if a few people read what I had to say, and end up with a more informed perspective, a different point-of-view on the public education problem, then all my responses were time well spent. -
I wonder what kind of job you hold. And what state your sister works in.
-
Oh, and by the way...It doesnt matter that those teachers were making 80 grand when the median income was 22. As teachers, that means we're college educated. We busted our asses in high school being nerds and getting good grades when everyone else was fucking around and having fun. We busted our asses in college and got stuck with loans when everyone else was making a paycheck. Sorry pal, but we deserve to make more money than some loser working at Wal-Mart because we put our lives on hold. Horace Mann based his principles on the idea that getting an education can break you out of poverty in this country. If you think that we as teachers should be expected to have worked hard at academics, get stiffed with loans, work a mentally backbreaking job and then get paid a poverty wage for it, then you ought to go fuck yourself, because the world doesnt work like that.
-
And before you sneer at maxwell's hammer calling summer a "mental health break", I suggest you go into a classroom and find out what it really feels like to have to manage 30 squirrels at the same time, each with their own quirks, especially when summer weather hits and kids find it unnatural that they're being kept inside. Some ignorent idiot with a loud mouth like you wouldn't last an hour.
-
*ignorant
-
(1) Feminism. Education was once taught by the best and brightest females the country had to offer. When the business world opened up, the brightest went for the money and the replacements have been dragging down the system ever since...(2) Yuppies who won't face up to global economics 101. I was smart enough back in 1993 after Nafta passed to figure out working 12 hour days to match my parents standard of living would leave any future children out of the equation. Now I just laugh at my coworkers driving 30 miles to and from the burbs each day with little energy for their kids' needs...(3) Low (and I mean single digit) turnout for school board elections. Because of this, we in Texas have a fucking dentist who became the state's most powerful education figure, forcing creationism into the school textbooks, which in turn affects your kids since Texas is the country's largest textbook supplier...(4) Due to the bonus system, aversion to handing out an F even though the kid deserves it...(5) Robust athletic departments. If I was a math teacher making 40k and the head football doofus who teaches 1 history class makes 100k, I would seriously key his car every morning before the bell rings.(6) Installing buslines and low income housing in the suburbs. Nothing says we got to get the fuck out of this neighborhood like turning a nice part of town into a ghetto gangland, thus scaring off the high tax base....I'm just thankful to be childless.
-
Right hicks?
-
James McTiegue is directing.
-
You keep nailing it on the head. I'd also like to add a few things about what teaching is like: Teaching is hard, hard work, and the day you spend in the class is only a small part of the overall day. For my fifty minute Algebra I classes, I spend about 100 minutes outside of class prepping (strategies, ActiveInspire flipcharts, copies, differenetiated materials for the special ed/ELL kids in my class, shopping at Wal-Mart for lessons-specific supplies, writing the lesson plans, etc.). I arrive an hour before the first bell to get some prep time. and I have tutorials for an hour after school, and when my daughter goes to bed (depending on the day) I have parent phone calls to make, papers to grade and I answer e-mail. Half my prep time is devoted to both content meeting and cross-content meetings. We are a Title 1 school, with 78% of our student body on free/reduced lunch, and we are constantly on the brink of state (TX) and federal NCLB standards. We serve impoverished kids who have no safe places outside our classrooms, who are basically good, but so mentally weak and fragile, they give up on us the first time they fail (which in impoverished teen language, translates as "Fuck you! This is fucking bullshit!"). I've just completed my first week of school, and I probably put in 12-14 hour days each day. Tonight (Sunday), I will have a few more hours of work to do before I wake up again at 4:30 to start Monday.
-
The act of teaching itself, orchestrating a classroom full of kids to learn, is complex, and both mentally and physically challenging. Your voice is cracked and dry from talking all day, your feet and hips ache from walking, stooping, and trying to stay motivating and engaging bell to bell. At the end of the school day, my head is buzzing, and I'm dehydrated and sore. Just like the fat rancor boy on this TB, they push your buttons just for fun to "play" with you, and you must respond as a calm adult to model good behavior (thanks again, Maxwell's Hammer). Still, I've had kids who never stood a chance go on to college to make a better life. Maybe it was my influence or maybe it was my influence, or maybe it was other teachers, but I know that as a team, our school serve as the only collection of positive role models most of our kids ever see.
-
I am pretty sure in the context of that documentary, that our school would also be "failing."
-
For reminding us what a tedious and exhausting job being a teacher is. Makes it pretty clear why some get burnt out!One thing that's always fascinated me about teachers is that they are doing at least a 1 hour lecture....EVERY DAY! I've had to do 15-20 minute lectures I've worked on for weeks, yet you guys have to do a new one every single day! And somehow you have to do all the ancillary things like creating and grading assignments on top of it all.We ALL need to have WAY more respect for the good work that you guys do. THANK YOU WerePlatypus and Maxwell's Hammer for your dedication. You are indeed changing lives for the better.I have also experienced this thing where parents will believe a child's story against a teacher even if it's completely ridiculous, just so they don't have to believe their kid is lying or just stupid or irresponsible. I once knew this girl who's daughter told her she was failing some class because the teacher wasn't giving her the assignments because "She just hates me."....And she BELIEVED HER!Of coue the daughter didn't think to say anything until she got the report card with a D on it. THEN all of a sudden the teacher was withholding assignments. INCREDIBLY, the mother assumed that must be the whole story and said something along the lines of "That teacher has always had it out for you." It was fucking AMAZING! So yeah, I'm sure that really happened and this teacher is one of the "miserable elite" that are destroying education. *eyeroll*. But what else is a toothless gas station attendant like Fatass R$ancor Fucker going to believe? He certainly can't be expected to actually understand how the education system works. It's much easier to say "It's dem dar teachers dat are fukkin' it all up. YUP! Now back to the WWE!"
-
This is a serious question, if you don't mind addressing. In your experience, how would you rate or rank kids' behavior, aptitude, dedication, desire to learn and involvement of parents based on ethnicity?
You're anonymous here so it would be great to get an informed, honest opinion. Thanks. -
I suggest you read "Teachers Have It Easy: The Big Sacrifices and Small Salaries of America's Teachers." It deals with stories about model teachers leaving the profession because they just can't afford to keep teaching, teachers who can't afford to live in the communities they teach in, teachers who can't afford to have their own kids, etc. You look at jobs where people take a coffee break whenever they want, while teachers sometimes have to hold their bladder for four or more hours because their schedule doesn't allow them any time for personal bowel relief. In 2001, the NEA released a study, entitled "The Status of the American Public Schoolteacher," and found that teacher's routinely worked 50 hours a week or more.
-
I've had parents who never see their kids because they're sleeping in the morning, and sleeping when they get home. I'd had parents cancel a conference because they have a headache. I've looked in bookbags and found unsigned notices from months earlier that were never looked at by a parent. I've had students whose parents idea of discipline is to beat their child with a coat-hanger, then take their child to the movies 10 minutes later. Teachers certainly have a role in failing education, but a small role.Never mind the talking heads in Washington who make educational policy without a clue how to teach.
-
I teach in a predominantly high SES community, so lots of upper-middle class white kids. In recent years with the ridiculous amounts of residential building in our city, we've seen a radical shift in out student population with a lot more minorities and lower SES families. That's just to give you the context of what my observations are based on. And my observations are this...
There is good and bad distributed pretty equally among all classes and races.
The upper-middle class parents can be either super-involved and supportive or arrogant and entitled and dismissive. The lower-middle class kids parents can either be super-involved and supportive or intellecually lazy and entitled and dismissive. And the kids bring with them into the school whatever attitudes their parents model for them.
If I had to make a list of my biggest behavior problems, its definitely little punk white kids who's parents give them everything they want and who then come to school expecting teachers to fawn over them and find their disruptive behavior cute and charming. Sure, we've got a growing Latino and black population, but in the safe environment that our campus tries to create, they excell or fail based on their own individual personalities and commonly defy racial stereotypes.
For every example of a behavior problem or doofus parent or poor academic achievement belonging to a minority student, I can think up three more concerning one of our white kids.
And I'll add, I'm fortunate to teach in a pretty well-off district. We're not wealthy or rich, but we do all right. It sounds like WerePlatypus teaches in a far more disadvantages community, so he's probably dealing with more unstable situations, therefore more unstable behavior and achievement.
I don't know about $72,000 a year, but there are all sorts of programs designed to get the best teachers into poorer schools, including higher salaries when the community can afford it. I guess fat_rancor would prefer the educated professionals that are trying to better those students not only dedicate absorbatant amounts of their time, but should also give away all their money, because being poor would somehow make you a better teacher? -
Thank you very much for that post. Much appreciated. I know it does boil down to individuals, but surely we can glean trends from the bigger picture, and I appreciate your insight.
Based on my own experience in HS, I'd rank kids like this (in all the criteria I mentioned) from Best to Worst: Asian & Indian (by far), White (more a mix like you indicated), Latino (it's harder to peg them because they tend to go in extremes - some are intensely studious while others are plain ghetto psychotic), Black.
My niece, who is currently in HS, pretty much sums up the same story. She's in the top of her class too, and likely going to UPenn. But it's been a rough road for her because being smart is not looked upon favorably by other kids. I wish she'd gone to private school - not because of poor education, as her teachers have apparently been excellent - because she could've been in a better environment these past few years. I'm sure UPenn will give her some more worthwhile experiences.
As for teacher pay, I think good teachers ought to be very well compensated. Absolutely. Nothing more important than educating children. And in order for that to happen while being responsible to the taxpayers, the unions need to take a hard line against the bad apples. Weed out the bad teachers and there'll be more money to compensate the good ones adequately. It's only fair. -
Teachers like you shouldn't be made to give equal attention to kids who don't want to learn. If parents can't prepare their children to behave respectfully and dedicate themselves to a publicly funded education, then the system ought to expel them from the system. A problem child should not be society's responsibility to reform. It is the parents' responsibility. And until they're ready to participate like every other kid, they can stay the fuck home.
-
I'll respect whatever conclusions you and your niece may have drawn, but as a teacher, its the most dangerous and disrepectful thing you can do to a student to classify and label according to gender/class/racial stereotypes.
A huge part of my job is giving every single student a clean slate, allowing them each to be judged as individuals.
If you're making judgements like that based on a student's perspective (such as the perspective of you and your niece), you will probably see more divisions based on race and class. But the differences you're seeing are surface level only due to the highly cliquish and social nature of American public schools. The black kids and Latino kids may form different social circles causing kids not inside that circle to see them differently.
But from a teacher's perspective, we try to ignore the social circlees (inasfar as they're not disruptive to the classroom), and when you can do that, you see that as individuals, bad behavior and academic performance and quality of home life are pretty evenly distributed among all students. -
I agree with you 100% on this one. on a campus with over 1200 kids, I could probably make a list of 15 kids you could remove from the classroom and solve 75% of all disruptive behavior problems.
And these are not kids who we give up on, they're simply kids for whom being the center of attention and bothering the teacher is a higher priority than learning. Students like these don't care if they fail, they don't care if they're in trouble, and as a teacher, you have very little leverage with which to get them to behave, as they wear getting in trouble like a badge of pride. But again, our job is to find a way to teach these kids as well and find ways to help them mature out of such behavior. Its frustrating that the attention diverted to those kids is at the expense of focusing attention on the 'good kids'.
Which is a whole other category of problem teachers deal with. Where do kids like that come from? They're not a product of bad teaching. -
I totally appreciate your focus on the individual rather than their ethnicity. IMO that makes you a fine teacher. Professional. As a non-teacher, I have a different perspective about things based on experience. And my niece doesn't judge people on their skin color, though she does view trends based on ethnicity. There's an undeniable truth in that.
Those 15 kids ought to be expelled, period. Why teachers and other students have to suffer because of them is beyond me. -
Education is complicated issue, but those defending unions and bashing charter schools are clueless. More charter schools and no unions would solve a lot of problems. Senseless parents are a problem, but there's nothing the public sector can do about that. Not saying every charter school is great... some aren't, but the area I live in is one of the most active cities in America with charter schools. We have one charter school per 10,000 people. Teachers in these charter schools are well paid and they are amazing teachers. Funny thing is, they're not operating with more money than public schools - they just have to use it correctly or they will be shut down. Now, not every charter is great - we just shut two charter schools down because they sucked. You read that right - accountability for schools! Amazing isn't it? If we held public schools to the same standard, probably 60-80% of them would be shut down. Accountability is one of the biggest problems in education. If you work in the private sector, you understand - if you stink at your job, you're fired. Actually, if your boos THINKS you stink at your job, you're fired. I don't have a union to protect your interests and I don't need one. I do good work and that creates my job security. If a teacher stinks, they should be able to fire them with ease. This idea could be applied to just about every sector of government and it would help immensely and would save millions of $$$ in tax payer money. We bury bad teachers at district offices to get them out of classrooms... so they make $50k to play Minesweeper all day. Unions were necessary decades ago, but it's long past due to do away with them. Also, as far as funding and teacher pay... I'm sure there are funding problems but throwing money at this issue will not fix anything. Teachers may be underpaid, but most are underworked as well. There are a lot of bad teachers just like there are a lot of bad government workers - if you've worked in both the private and public sector, then you know how much money is being wasted on incompetent people.
-
Aug 29, 2010 2:32:03 PM CDT
Looks like more Michael Moore Monkey Shit....
by mjs_cold_dead_pale_corpse
Blah blah blah Obama is God blah blah I hate Republicans blah blah blah legalize pedophillia blah blah blah Black people need better schools and jobs than whites blah blah blah I hate whites blah blah blah kill white babies blah blah Al Sharpton is Jesus etc....
-
Aug 29, 2010 2:37:47 PM CDT
They must be talking about this Superman.....
by mjs_cold_dead_pale_corpse
http://tinyurl.com/2fpvcyw
It's gonna be a long wait for that "Superman" -
Thoughts? Pros and cons? Advice and How to's?
-
It's just that simple: want better teachers? Pay more money. Why should anyone want to teach when they can make twice as much in another field and not have to deal with the bullshit that comes with teaching?
-
I've got a different set of instructions for you. Have a seat right over there. Have a seat. I'm Chris Hansen, and we're filming a segment for Dateline NBC.
-
I agree that unions meddle a bit where they don't need to, but the one thing they do which is very much needed is to protect teachers from frivelous litigation.
When little Sally makes some shit up to get teacher in trouble because she didn't like the grade she got on her project, the Unions are typically the only ones around with enough clout to stand up for that teacher. Because in my experience, parents will typically side with their kids, districts are more concerned about their image in the community, and rumor mills almost always stir up all kinds of unfair shit that there is no way to combat. Unions are able to step in and intervene before all of that gets out of hand. As I posted above, I personally experienced this when a student said something to their parent about a file they illegally accessed on my computer which the parent misinterpreted as being child pornography. Everyone from the district looked at the situation and agreed with me that I hadn't done anything wrong and yet they still recommended that I resign from my job due to how this story would 'follow me around'. They literally gave more weight to ignorant rumors that they admitted weren't true than to the fact that I hadn't done anything wrong! There was literally NO ONE on my side to defend me.
Eventually, everything blew over, but it still sickens me the way the district was so incapable of backing one of their own teachers. A Union rep would never have let things get out of hand as quickly as they did. Needless to say, I am now a union member and will pay my dues till the day I retire, just so I have that protection the next time a parent or student decide to invent some kind of ficticious assault to my character. -
This is what unions and collectivism get you and I am going to enjoy watching the country be destroyed by them.
-
...the single largest reason that our schools are in a mess. They keep selling out to liberal fanatics in government who do not have the best interest of the teachers, students, administrations or parents in order. They just want states to continue throwing money at the schools...with little accountability. Thanks for the review, Harry. I will have to watch this one.
-
...to protect teachers from litigation......then why not create some sort of tort reform that would protect teachers and schools? Oh wait -- big trial lawyers are the largest single fundraiser for the DNC. Next is Hollywood and media conglomerates. They make "big oil" look like poor, uninvolved companies.
-
It's not about tort reform. In my case, lawyers were never involved. Somebody made shit up about me, and the district's preferred way of getting rid of the false accusations was to ask me to resign. A student lied about me. A parent took their child's side and brought the lie to the district as though it were fact. The district verified I did nothing wrong, but thought me leaving would be more convenient than standing up to a parent.
The only lawyer that would have been involved was the one I would have been forced to hire to defend my job if the district had decided to fire me.
My character and career were on the line, and nobody in power was willing to step forward to defend me. A Teacher Union would have, had I been a member at the time.
I'll repeat: unions cause their fair share of mischief, but while it is not their sole purpose, protecting teachers from frivilous complaints is something they actually manage to do right! -
It's pop culture that makes kids dumber
-
We were friends for a short period of time, but then one day I fucked him in the ass and then gave him a hot human chili dog and came across his face...we haven't spoken since. Cho CHop Choppah
-
If you follow a stupid kid home you'll find stupid and or lazy parents. How many people in this talk back had parents that didn't care but somehow an awesome teacher pulled them through? Has it ever happened? Perhaps. Is it the norm? Not a fucking chance. Furthermore not one person in this talk back that thinks teacher are the problem is willing to be a teacher. You say your great Aunt Tilly is a teacher and said teachers suck? Well your Aunt Tilly needs to pull her head out of her ass, one person can't speak for an entire profession. I bet she has stupid kids of her own. Is the solution to the education problem to destroy the union and pay teachers less money? Yep, that will make it all better. Get a degree, make very little money, baby sit kids that believe they're entitled to everything they want, contend with parents that can't be bothered to parent their demon spawn and not have a union to protect you. Fucking fantastic, I encourage all of you that believe teachers are the biggest problem in the education system to fix the problem yourselves...become a teacher. What, you don't want to? Then shut the fuck up.
-
right-on, man
-
Aug 30, 2010 4:20:38 AM CDT
As a foreigner, watching docs about America is fascinating
by asimovlives
There's just stuff in USA that is just hard to believe it really exists. From a foreigner perspective, USA is like a strange mixture of familiarity with the really odd and strange. It's like watching people from another planet, they resemble us but not really.
-
... the crumbling educational system, otherwise their movies and shit wouldn't had the popularity they have.
-
God forbid people having a life outside their job hours, hem? God forbid people getting extra pay for the extra hours they do on their jobs, hem? I bet you miss the days of George Dumbya Bush and regreat that evolution has to be teached in science classes and a wacko version of protestant christianity is not compulsory for all studends to follow and pledge devoted alliangence to.
-
Spoken like a true George Dumbya Bush supporter demented right winger fanatic. Small wonder you like Mickey Bay's movies.
-
It'sd so fascinating to see that the right winger politics is so appealing to the uneducated, idiots and the demented.
-
I'm not American so I have no idea how it works there, but surely they don't actually use a lottery machine and pick out numbers do they? That's insane if so - I honestly can't belive that.
Here, in England, it goes by your grades - and if you mess up your grades, you can re-sit them until you get the ones you need. There's really no second chance in the US or are they just exaggerating facts or I've missed the point somewhat? -
score in the top 10 worldwide in those tests. I'm just saying.... and black, latino, and trailer trash white kids are the ones who cant read and spend more time getting each other pregnant than going to school. Kids from countries like Korea on that list go to private afterschool programs that cost their parents $10,000s every year and kids from countries like Finland come from stable families with structure that support education. I mean, it's not enough that America clothes, feeds, and tax-subsidizes you people but now you want them to raise them for you as well? Frankly it's amazing that America isn't even lower on that list
-
it wasn't child pornography it was regular pornography. seriously though, what was that file? and why did you give a kid access to your computer anyways? I doubt the school district would have caved unless it was in fact something inappropriate and embarrassing (if not illegal)
As for teacher's unions you just admitted their primary purpose is to protect teachers not to enable education or support the kids. You're basically paying them "protection money." Why would any parent trust teachers unions in that case? -
I think you underestimate a school district's need to "save face." It's a very public entity, and rather than actually deal with a problem and determine who's right and wrong (while risking a private matter turning into a public matter in the press), it's easier to just distance themselves by asking the affected party to resign.Someone commented that you don't need a union, just like most jobs don't. But let's say you're an editor as a newspaper. If someone who writes in your section writes a crappy article and you tell them that, do you have any concern whatsoever that the writer is going to report you to your boss for sexual harassment? Of course not, because we're all professionals. You're not going to go home, tell your spouse, and get grounded. But with a young child who is scared about getting in trouble with his/her parents over a bad grade, accusing the teacher of wrongdoing seems like a better alternative. Look at "The Crucible." Dozens of people accused of witchcraft by kids because they didn't want to get in trouble. Heck, how many people were executed in the real Salem Witch Trials because they were accused by kids who didn't quite grasp the severity of those accusations.Not saying this happens all the time, or even often, but it does happen. I've seen plenty of kids you can't grasp that their actions have consequences. Some kids will just scream their head off because they got excluded for the classroom party, but I've seen kids complain to their parents about being treated unfairly in those instances.
-
when they held up Healthcare reform because certain tax consequences were going to affect their high-priced Cadillac plans. I saw the light. Not to mention I know of a union electrician making $85 an hour working for the MTA (New York transportation authority) and the guy's an addict. Kill off the unions.
-
how can the average movie goer ever catch them?
-
Well, if the district thought I'd done something that neglegently inappropriate, why didn't they just fire me? I had no union representation, so it wouldn't have been that hard. But I hadn't done anything wrong, so they realy couldn't fire me. They just tried to make me feel like it would be in my best interest to resign, when in actuallity it was what they thought was in THEIR best interest.
And as I've stated above, its unfair to say that protecting the kids isn't anywhere in the equation. That's what the teachers do! That's what the administrators do! It's what the TEA and other child protective agencies do! That's our job! A school is an entire building full of people looking out for the best interests of kids! Kids being protected is totally covered! The problem is that outside of unions, there is no-one to protect the teachers when all of the shit Bramton just mentioned occurs. Why do you feel that teachers are so undeserving of protection? -
And do you make the kids do dance battles?
-
Bring on the rods!
-
...junior high, and there is much battle dancing. frequently in slow motion and 3D.
-
Awesome!
-
Aug 30, 2010 9:59:03 AM CDT
The US educational system is broken below the university level.
by orbots commander
U.S. colleges are generally looked upon as world-beating institutions of higher learning, but the reason they are so, is that they are, largely, private entities or public/private, that compete for the best professors, best students and most attention-getting and fund-inducing research.
Introduce some private incentive into the public K-12 system and it will begins to change, guaranteed. -
http://tinyurl.com/2a7huh3
"Weissberg’s conclusion: the quality of students—intelligence and motivation—is by far the most important factor in whether a school is “bad” or “good”." -
But they don't use it in the trailer, come on!
-
First and foremost I'm not in in union. I am however a member of the APA, the ACA and other professional organizations. During my my undergrad studies I took American History as many of you did. I recall reading about the Utopian paradise the United States was before unions. Child labor, sweat shops, 12 - 16 hour work days, a mere penitence for pay, if the boss wanted to fuck you then you'd better get to fucking or your ass was fired. Speaking of getting fired you could be for any reason at any time. The person working next to you with the exact same skills, experience and time on the job could make twice what you make. American jobs were so safe then, if you lost a finger or hand in your dangerous job you'd be fired and replaced before the lost body part hit the floor. Yeah, that's the America we need to get back to. A union-less Utopia for the corporate man. I'm not saying unions are perfect by any means an I'm sure everyone in the talk back (including me) has and anecdotal example of some union malfeasance. But to make the stretch that unions are destroying the country is to be uninformed at best and to be disingenuous or an out right liar at worst.
-
Exactly the point. The stupid and lazy were appropriately punished for their qualities and the educated and productive were rewarded. Now the stupid and lazy are rewarded (unions) and the productive and smart(private tech sector employees mostly)are punished. Unions are socialism and will bankrupt the country. Anyone with any wealth to speak of has wisely hidden as much as possible from the IRS and should conduct as much business as possible on the black market. If a business hires union, I do not use their services, and I ALWAYS check. This is why I only buy used or black market products unless there is absolutely no other source.
-
Are you some kind of cartoon character? How does not wanting to work a 15 hour day when you're 12 years old with no safety regulations make you stupid and lazy and deserving of punishment?
-
You clearly missed my point.
-
WTH? I don't like teacher unions because my wife is a school teacher -- and she sees just how MEANINGLESS but RUTHLESS that they are! They take her money for no other reason than to "support her in case of a lawsuit?" Isn't this the responsibility of the SCHOOL and not a union run by greedy ex-teachers who run it like the mafia. By the way, I have never liked a single one of Michael Bay's films...so I don't know where you get off saying that. Maybe you are having a bad Asimov day? Or perhaps you woke up on the wrong side of the bed?
-
It doesn't. Not improving your situation through self improvement does.
-
Not really. You wish to enforce your morality on others through collectivism. That's your point. If anything, you missed your own point because you aren't smart enough to know what it really is.
-
You're right, I (as does most of the Western world) believe a morality that doesn't EXPLOIT (inadequate compensation for their labor) children and the poor for profit is a morality that is worth enforcing. So yes, I'd like to enforce safe working environments with adequate pay on Americans. Regarding your comment about collectivism, the U.S. and the majority of the Western world are Individualistic cultures (even though they have unions), not collectivist. Do you honestly believe the Americans that do they labor that is the back bone of this country shouldn't be afforded the protections they can get in a union? To refuse that isn't being individualistic it's being idiotic. To try to prevent it is to force your morality on them.
-
Chrism: your wife doesn't have to join a union if she doesn't want to. There is no law that says she has to pay any dues to anyone. But she really better watch out if little Sally's having a bad day and wants to take it out on your wife by making up a story about your wife touching her inappropriately.
And yes: school's should protect their teachers, but that's like saying Bear Stearns should have been responsible with other people's money. School districts will typically put their own image concerns over a teacher's welfare even when the teacher has done nothing wrong. Unions provide a check and balance against that.
Brog: if you are poor and need a job, and there is no minimum wage, then a wealthy factory owner can basically 'auction' off a job to whoever is willing to take the smallest amount of pay. This results in the poor people making less money, and the rich person making more. And less money for the poor people means they have to work more, and during the Industrial Revolution, many families would have their children working as well (in the afore mentioned unregulated working conditions) so they would not attend school.
So how exactly does that situation result in a person even getting a chance to better themselves or get a good education? You do realize that the middle class that you are presumably a part of didn't even exist until strict labor laws took some of the crushing burdens off the poor so they could better themselves, and those labor laws would never have existed were it not for unions. -
For what it's worth, the same concerns and pressures are very much the case here in the UK as well. I'm about to return after a short break and every fibre in me is screaming to get out of teaching. I've been doing it for ten years now and in all honesty the targets have become ludicrous while the means with which to achieve them have been slashed year after year. They joy of actually imparting new knowledge to a group and seeing what they create with it in return has dwindled to such a small area of the job, that I'm not the only one thinking it either.
Good luck to you over there, mate. -
Teachers dont get paid shit. for thier level of education they are well compensated. especially when you figure that they are being paid for 3 months off work! if they teach summer school they get paid more. im not talking about ESL teachers in Thailand or Somalia. Im talking about here. Plus,it is almost impossible to fire alot of these teachers once they are tenured. That is utter horseshit. if you dotn do a good job you should be able to be canned like in any other profession. I had a couple of good teachers who could inspire me. Most, especially in college, were lazy cunts who did little and let thier TA teach classes. Why should I pay to be taught by a TA? I'd rather get a degree on line. Its more honest.
-
"So yes, I'd like to enforce safe working environments with adequate pay on Americans" - Actually this is the last thing you care about as everyone makes exactly what they should. The only time they don't is when regulations come into play. What you do care about is controlling every aspect of others lives and making their decisions for them. You despise personal freedom and original thought. Creativity and productive effort are your absolute enemies. Those who do not share your morality must be forced to obey or be destroyed. You are a coward who lacks even the most basic understanding of the value of life.
-
1) if you are poor and need a job, and there is no minimum wage, then a wealthy factory owner can basically 'auction' off a job to whoever is willing to take the smallest amount of pay. - I suggest not being poor.
2)And less money for the poor people means they have to work more, and during the Industrial Revolution, many families would have their children working as well (in the afore mentioned unregulated working conditions) so they would not attend school. - Contrary to collectivist dogma, government controlled education is hardly the only education that can lead to wealth and class as you use the term is meaningless.
You are right about one thing though, the current economic situation has a lot to do with unions and the idea that wealth and income is a right. Quite frankly I hope every regulation that can be conceived of is enacted. I hope the wealthy are taxed into destruction. So we are on the same page there, just for different reasons. -
Ad hominem attacks already? That didn't take long. Be all means explain how I'm a coward who lacks even the most basic understanding of the value life. Here's your opportunity to "teach" me something.
-
You have never been right abopuit anything, why you think it's going to change? Stick to the right wing policies bullshit, this world needs to be more fucked up then it already is, right? Keep it up. And you better start liking Mickey Bay's movies, they appeal to the right wingers nutjobs like honey to flies.
-
Becasue private funding universities and colleges ar enot prone to lying, cheatting, malpractice and malfiencanse, right? Let me tell you ione thing about priovate universities and colleges: they exist to make money. That's their only goal and their goal only. This notion that in the private world things are nice and utopias of rectitude and efficiency is pure bullshit. One more lie spreated by the corporation lobbies to put thwe whole world in the pockets of the very rich and the corporations they run. This pro-corporation mind slave bullshit is becoming very, very scary, it's like something out of a 70s SF dystopia story, only for real.
-
This is no doubt a wasted effort but I'll give it a shot. You are either afraid to compete and therefore attempt to use the power of government to stop others from competing at their best, or are actually an individual but are afraid to stand up to the evils of Altruism, Collectivism and Multiculturalism because you know all too well that you will be targeted for destruction for speaking out in your own self interest. If you understood the value of your own life you would place that value over everything else. but you do not. You value the collective over your own existence because it is easier than improving your value to the marketplace. Because you do not place your own life as your highest value, you cannot possibly value anyone else's life, making any declaration that your motives are based on the interests of the collective society demonstrably false.
-
Thank you for confirming that you are, indeed, a cartoon character.
-
...that's a bit circular, isn't it? You value others more than yourself, which proves that you can't value others? Demonstrably?
-
Do you want me to respond to your question or am I a cartoon character? Let me know.
-
If I were to follow your logical fallacies I would have to kill you. I certainly value my life more than I value yours and your nihilistic views. But I would like to examine the last sentence of your post. Is it possible for anyone to have motives that are based on the collective (why are you fascinated with collectivism?) society? if so under what circumstances? It seems that you want to have anarchistic Darwinism. At no point did I say there shouldn't be competition. You're more than free to establish any business you want (I promise I won't try to stop you). Clarify this for me< if I understand the value of my own should I or should I not speak out if it means I will be targeted for destruction? Embracing something that would destroy me would indicate I don't know the value of my own life or are somethings worth dying for?
-
...I would love for you to answer my questions, but in a way that make sense based on reality, and not in a way that make you sound like a high school dropout who suddenly thinks you're brilliant because you audited a college level intro-to-economics class (i.e., like a cartoon character).
-
Fuck kind of name is that.
-
Aug 30, 2010 3:32:09 PM CDT
MR. HAMMER: "OKAY CLASS, FOR TONIGHT'S ASSIGNMENT ..."
by bringingsexyback
"Pop N Lock, Star Wars style."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq4X_mFmos0 -
Class: "Hammer time!"
Mr. Hammer: "Dat's right." *Pops N Locks* -
Aug 30, 2010 3:36:05 PM CDT
PERSONALLY I THINK IT'S TIME TO CLEAN THE AMERICAN GENE POOL
by bringingsexyback
-
I got no time for that shit. America has no time for that shit. Seriously, we need to all go to the middle. Judging from the way the Dems have been going I can be easily swayed to vote for a Republican. But don't give me no Palin tea party nonsense. Someone intelligent and responsible. I don't need no more right wing wackjob bullshit. Done with that.
-
Wow -- what crawled up your butt? Awww...do you still have Barney Frank's liberal dick stuck too far up your ass or what?!? Liberals are only 18% of the country! The other 82% are either Conservatives or Moderates. Are you angry that most Americans now realize how little that modern Liberals have in common with the rest of America? Are you upset that most Americans are tired of those 18% (who control the modern, pathetic Democratic Party) from pushing their view on the other 82% of us -- and then having the audacity to call it "democracy?" Wow...that is some audacious asshole that you have there, buddy. Besides, I don't like Michael Bay films any more than I like the other mindless propaganda that fills MSNBC and CNN either.
-
Someone needs to provide all of that tax income to pay for the programs that Liberals create in exchange for votes.
-
fat_rancor_keeper, I hope you can find some peace in your life. This is not the first talkback I've seen you stink up the joint.
Whatever your opinion of teachers, you seriously need to learn how to take part in a conversation (like with maxwell's hammer) without sounding like an angry child. -
Personally I don't mind a high drop out rate. The more the merrier. Honestly if you can't bother to show up in school and get at least a D- you may as well spare the taxpayer the burden. Go fucking off yourself for all anyone cares. Society will be better off.
-
"If I were to follow your logical fallacies I would have to kill you" - based on what? Valuing your own life above others does not make anyone else's life valueless. Again, you reveal that any attempt on my part to be free from your morality is a threat to you.
"Is it possible for anyone to have motives that are based on the collective (why are you fascinated with collectivism?) society?" No. While there are plenty who lie to themselves to the point where they think they do, the idea of the collective is meant to give legitimacy to self destructive ideas like government enforced altruism. It not enough that I let you steal from me, I have to willingly participate. That gives legitimacy to your ideology which is one of government control. You have to do this. Without some form of mysticism to disguise it, any rational person rejects the idea that you should be allowed to control their life or steal from them.
"You're more than free to establish any business you want" - do you actually believe this in theory or practice? I am free to start ANY business I want?
"are somethings worth dying for?" Of course, because death is not the destruction of your life. Willing slavery is. The fact that you don't understand that is the very essence of why you seek to force your morality on others. You might very well die for something you believe in. But that is not what you fear. What you fear is me being in control of my own life. You fear being outside the collective and being responsible for yourself.
-
RE: Brog - seriously, is somebody writing all that shit down? it's comedy gold!
RE: Chrism - Well, when I counted, 17% of people were conservative and 83% were either liberal or moderate. Also, of that 83%, 4 out of 5 chose Crest as their toothapaste of choice, half have seen a 26% decrease in their midichlorian levels after being exposed to cellphone radiation, and a meager 3.5% a percent plan on voting for an intelligent farm animal in their next local election.
I got fifth place in Maps, Graphs, and Charts. -
Recount!!!!!
-
Feed your own damned child.
-
I think "Set to maximum stun" pretty much sums it up for me.
-
Aug 30, 2010 5:13:38 PM CDT
IT'S FUNNY. I USED TO THINK TASING PEOPLE WAS CRUEL AND HORRIBLE
by bringingsexyback
Now, I search out Youtube tasing vids for amusement. Must be I'm watching too much Jersey Shore. I dunno.
-
Aug 30, 2010 5:16:47 PM CDT
SPEAKING OF WHICH, 1ST PART OF REAL HOUSEWIVES NJ REUNION
by bringingsexyback
tonight. Set your alarms, people.
-
Aug 30, 2010 5:26:31 PM CDT
IT'S FUNNY. I USED TO THINK EVERY CHILD DESERVED A MEAL.
by bringingsexyback
But I've grown weary of the collective.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0KRCUalPgg
-
Aug 30, 2010 5:31:20 PM CDT
QUESTION: WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO BECOME A SCHOOL GUARD
by bringingsexyback
and can I carry a Taser?
-
He doesn't like to be controlled by the government either, Brob.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ2R6nGR9-g&feature=related -
Don't watch this Max.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ2R6nGR9-g&feature=related -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZCKA1W8tF8&feature=related
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ8CiHFqhF8&NR=1
I think the boy needs a tazing. -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGdCeMayUjk
ROFLLLLLLMMMLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL -
And boy did things go downhill. Do you want to know my solution for American education, and the country as a whole? I - DON'T - KNOW. Let's be honest. NO ONE posting here has anything to offer except their absolute certainly, and I have none. I do have teens every day, and one of the greatest obstacles to sucess has been their own absolute certainly about an outcome before it's attempted or investigated. Some of these kids are so angry, so jaded, that their entire world view is so fixed. Why? Because holding onto such certainly feels SAFE. I charge them everyday to say I DON'T KNOW, and have the courage to keep looking for answers, for perspectives to expand upon their own (I fail most of the time). To have an absolute answer with almost no real investigation (cable news is not real investigation, BTW) is cowardly. Incredibly cowardly. This education stuff is complicated. The measurement of good teaching is subjective, standardized testing is suspect, schools boards are politically driven, money is scare in the right places and abundantly wasted in others, and whether we can holistically (and with abosulte certainly) blame X, Y, or Z for the problem, we are still losing too many of these kids to jail, drugs, and death. And as a first hand witness, I honestly do not know how to stop it.
-
I have two answers that will solve all these problems.
(1) Take the Japanese / Korean / Chinese school models and replicate them here.
(2) Dance battles. -
Aug 30, 2010 9:27:23 PM CDT
YOU CAN'T HELP KIDS WHOSE PARENTS WON'T EVEN HELP THEM
by bringingsexyback
It's not your responsibility. Put your energies into educating those who WANT to learn and want to better themselves. Let the others die.
-
They need discipline, a strong voice of authority and to know there are consequences to not holding up their end of the social contract, which in school means do your best to learn and treat teachers and fellow students respectfully, and if you don't your ass is out. Done. Simple. No need to negotiate, to "reach" them. Bada bing.
-
Aug 30, 2010 11:21:20 PM CDT
IF YOU HAVE ANY SENIOR YEAR CHICKS WHO NEED DISCIPLINING
by bringingsexyback
I'm here to help.
-
Okay, but it is our responsibility. Wanna know how to fix the crime/murder problem? Overcrowding in jails? Reach them while they're kids. Tired of welfare moms irresponsibly having a dozen children? Reach them while their kids. Wanna win the drug war? Reach them while they're kids. Sick of lazy adults who feed off the system? Reach them while they are kids. EDUCATION is perhaps the only touchpoint a culture such as ours can intervene when parenting goes awry. Whether your from the right or left, education money is an investment that can save us trillions in other problems down the line. John Adams referred to education as the 4th branch of governemnt. It doesn'r matter how many checks or balances exist in governemnt. If the free voters are complete morons. . . well, just read some of these comments and you can understand the scope of the problem education COULD address.
-
being passed on when you dont do the work? this is the basis behind no child left behind. Not everybody is suited for an academic career. Somebody has to be a plumber, carpenter etc. Better to figure that out in school and go to a vocational school. there is no dishonor in that
-
I respectfully disagree, and just so you know, I used to be a full-fledged Progressive.
It is not my responsibility as a taxpayer to raise someone else's child nor is it your responsibility as a teacher. Your job is to teach, to educate (which alone I would assume is difficult enough) - not to raise a child on an irresponsible stranger's behalf. When you're made to pay inordinate amounts of attention to the bad seeds, the good seeds don't get enough nutrients and next thing you know you got a bad crop. You keep doing that, the whole farm goes south. And that's exactly that's what America's braintrust has become. A dead farm where we now import our food from India and China. Christ, that's a brilliant analogy if I don't say so myself. Copyright BSB.
You should have seen enough of troubled teens and parents to know that you can NEVER change that reality. There are certain segments of people who will continue to perpetuate a destructive lifestyle and they are nothing but dangers to others and parasites on society. Seriously, open your eyes.
They'll commit crimes? Let them be arrested. Mandatory death penalty across the board for violent crimes and drug trafficking. I welcome that. They'll go on welfare? Get rid of welfare. If they wanna eat and have a home they have to be made to work for it, like everyone else. Handouts perpetuate an unnatural reliance on others. Acting maliciously and violently in school? Sayonara forever. You're on your own.
Imagine if you and your students are given a secured, healthy and respectful environment where knowledge is imparted and absorbed, students can concentrate withoout distraction, learn without shame, teachers are focused on the act of teaching. I would totally support that as a taxpayer, because society would benefit and our nation's future would be greatly improved. I would think you'd like that too. -
You obviously don't have kids. You can raise a kid up totally right and they can still be a douchy asshole in the classroom. And as a parent, you'd be super pissed if your kid was abandoned by his teachers because he was a total trouble-maker. Platypus is actually right: when they're young is when they're still impressionable and can be set on the right path. Complaining about your tax dollars helping other people is like saying nobody should put out the fire at the neighbor's house, even though the flames are eventually going to be licking at your windowsill too. A lot of time, solving other people's problems prevents other problems for you later down the line.
-
Sorry but Wereplatypus was talking about teens. And I would not be pissed if my kid was being disruptive in school - I'd do my job as a parent and set them straight. I know, that's a novel idea. Just last night the news profiled some kid who was bugged (as in with a tape recorder) by his father to record a teacher reprimanding him in front of the class for being a disruptive. And now the teacher is suspended. If that's what you want, then congratulations. You've put all the power in the hands of the children and bad parents and the good kids suffer. Brilliant.
As for how I want my tax dollars used, I think you ought to re-read the last paragraph of my post. Why shouldn't I or anybody else want my tax dollars used responsibly? Why should we work to support deadbeats and bad parents? Why is it that people like you (and I acknowledge you are good-meaning) put the bad kids on pedestals to the detriment of the good ones? It's thinking like that that got me disgusted with the Progressive movement. -
...as I experience such things personally, I get way more pissed at the disruptive ones than you do, but cutting those kids lose does no one any good and would only perpetuate the cycle.
I loved watching Bunny Colvin on season 5 of The Wire, where he pulled all the extreme behavior problem kids and taught them seperately.
Kids should not be punished for their shitty upbringings. They don't get to choose who their parents are and what kind of culture they live in, which directly influence the kind of student they initially become. It is my job to redirect them into becoming better students, and ultimately, better people.
As a human being, I totally sympathize with what you're saying, but as a teacher...well, I can't ditch a kid just because I don't like them. That's not what teachers do. If you cut cull it down to just the good kids, hell, anybody could be a teacher. -
...as I experience such things personally, I get way more pissed at the disruptive ones than you do, but cutting those kids lose does no one any good and would only perpetuate the cycle.
I loved watching Bunny Colvin on season 5 of The Wire, where he pulled all the extreme behavior problem kids and taught them seperately.
Kids should not be punished for their shitty upbringings. They don't get to choose who their parents are and what kind of culture they live in, which directly influence the kind of student they initially become. It is my job to redirect them into becoming better students, and ultimately, better people.
As a human being, I totally sympathize with what you're saying, but as a teacher...well, I can't ditch a kid just because I don't like them. That's not what teachers do. If you cut cull it down to just the good kids, hell, anybody could be a teacher. -
...as I experience such things personally, I get way more pissed at the disruptive ones than you do, believe me. But cutting those kids loose does no one any good and would only perpetuate the cycle.
I loved watching Bunny Colvin on season 5 of The Wire, where he pulled all the extreme behavior problem kids and taught them seperately. I'm all for separating them from a the regular population, but to assume they can never change and let them keep on being resource draining assholes does nothing for society but bolster its worst aspects.
Kids should not be punished for their shitty upbringings. They don't get to choose who their parents are and what kind of culture they live in, which directly influence the kind of student they initially become. It is my job to redirect them into becoming better students, and ultimately, better people, which in the long run, makes for a better society.
As a human being, I totally sympathize with what you're saying, but as a teacher...well, I can't ditch a kid just because I don't like them. That's not what teachers do. If you cull it down to just the good kids, hell, anybody could be a teacher. -
...the last one was supposed to be the final post.
Dese district internet servers be crazy! -
Well said.
-
But it's like the Iraq War. It's a quagmire. It's an unwinnable battle because each new generation will bring more problems into the system and more resources (like you) are wasted trying to reform them, and not only do the good kids suffer, but the whole system never improves and deteriorates. All because the parasites are allowed to fester within. Still, like I say, you and Were are good people. Just wasted on the undeserving.
-
Which is why we need standards for students, just as we require standards for teachers (at least we should, apparently the unions don't cotton to that). If the kid doesn't perform up to standards, then hit the eject button. And let's face it, our standards are pretty meager to begin with. It should be a uniform policy that takes the burden off you and your good students to have to deal with them. And honestly, you won't even remember them 3 days after they're gone, if that.
-
...but kids are parasites to be cut out of diseased tissue. The kids ARE the diseased tissue, and it is the teacher's job to cure them.
I was accused of putting teachers up on a pedistal for saying this earlier, but its true: if you're not in a classroom with actual kids, you really don't know what goes on there, and you certainly don't have any insight into the 'whys and wherefores' of what's going on.
Part of the reason the system is so screwed up is because we let people Non-Classroom-Outsiders debate and dictate educational policy. What you end up with is opinions like your's: well-intentioned but wrong-headed and counter-productive. -
...kid's AREN'T parasites. You get my drift.
-
The collective is the tissue, the bad kids and their guardians are the parasites, and the taxpayers are the hemoglobin. I hope that makes sense.
-
no gay rape here, it was a consensual human chili dog...faggot...try harder
-
Don't you think Cold_Dead_Pale_Corpse needs a little attention and encouragement more than he needs to be jettisoned from society as a whole?
Okay, bad example. -
She had the HIGHEST test scores in her district on the mandatory tests required by NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND for public schools. The principals and a few school district officials met with her and asked, "What is it that you did that caused your results to be the highest in the district?"
Her reply?
"You know that idea of "no child left behind? Well, I left some children behind. I could either spend ALL of my time focusing on a small handful of disruptive "special needs" children, or I could focus on the kids that actually want to learn something. Most of which do not care and whose parents really don't care either. So, I spent MOST of my effort on children who demonstrated that they actually cared about learning something." The principal and school district officials told my wife, "Oh...interesting...but please don't repeat this to anyone. You could get in trouble with the schools, state or teacher's unions." My wife wanted to point out that she made strong initial efforts to reach out to ALL of the students in her class. However, there were several students who were disruptive EVERY DAY for the first few weeks. They didn't even try to do any class work. When contacted about their child's bad behavior, the parents wanted to blame the teacher, other students and principals. Most of these children wouldn't even TRY to answer a question on the tests! I was dating my wife at the time, and those particular kids would just draw pictures on their tests (and one kid wrote FUCK YOU on all of the answers of all of his tests).
When confronted, these kids would often claim that they were "special" so there was nothing that could be done to them. Others would argue that the District believed in "age appropriate" grades, so they were going to "pass anyway." My wife didn't leave these kids "behind." Rather, she just moved ahead with kids that actually cared. Now, some of these kids -- when they noticed that they weren't going anywhere -- decided to actually try and behave like a human being. The others? They couldn't pass the standardized tests, but the school district passed them anyway -- even though they had an almost 0% average. HOWEVER, my wife had the HIGHEST PASSING RATE of any of the other teachers in that district. Some kids are just destined to be losers because they are RAISED to be that way by crappy parents (or the lack of responsible adults) to begin with. Now, all of my wife's students were from homes that my wife reached out to. Unfortunately, most of those parents (and, in a few cases, grandparents) just didn't care...or would tell her, "That kid is YOUR problem!" -
I won't necessarily insist that your wife isn't a teacher, but absolutely nothing in your above anecdote reflects anything remotely resembling the way students act in the classroom. The douche-baggery, the sense of entitlement, the assholishness of students: well, yes, that's all pretty much accurate.
But the idea that she stopped teaching the bad kids and they all magically reformed when they saw they were being ignored? You copied that off an episode of "Head of the Class". That always pisses me off when I see it on TV because it has never happened in an actual classroom. -
... you like to cry. It is amazing.
-
Aug 31, 2010 6:22:47 PM CDT
I WILL WATCH IT, IF ONLY TO SEE HOW THE SYSTEM IS FAILING
by bringingsexyback
the kids who make the effort while giving special attention to those who don't.
-
http://tinyurl.com/2aeqj69
No, they just finally made the test harder (which automatically widened the percentile gap between the races) after years of it getting easier (which automatically made it narrower). Read your La Griffe du Lion, please. It's Normal Probability Distribution 101.
-
Wow, jerk, who made you "king of public education?"
My wife has taught in low income "at risk" public school since finishing her bachelor's degree. She continued to teach while finishing her Master's and is finishing her Ed.D. Perhaps your problem is that you have never been around schools that are predominantly attended by extremely low income students. I started dating her during that time and helped her grade papers while we were dating...and I was SHOCKED at how a few of the students were so badly behaved. Now, I didn't say that my wife "ignored them." You are putting words in my (and her) mouth. My wife simply FOCUSED on those students who demonstrated a desire to learn. I also didn't say that all of these kids "magically reformed" when she began to focus on those children. A few of the students straightened up. The rest of them continued in their idiot ways -- knowing that they would pass anyway according to the age appropriation placement of the district. My wife firmly believes that the condition of the home is extremely important in the ability for a child to understand the importance of education. It doesn't mean that a student must come from a middle class home in order to succeed. Not at all! My wife is from an EXTREMELY poor background. Rather, it is all about parents who can convey an understanding that school is important. I will say this: My wife really tried hard with those students who didn't care. However, her choice was to either focus on these kids who don't care (and keep the rest of the students behind) or focus on the students who showed that they cared (even if just a little). She chose the latter, and her results in the TAKS test were the highest in the district (and very high for the state). We eventually moved to California. The schools here are soooooo bad that my wife worked for one year and decided to move on to something else. She is now a teacher at an exclusive private school near our home in Palo Alto. While there are still some kids who just don't care as much as others, most of the students in her classes care about education (at least a little) and it shows! The are much more academically advanced than the local public schools. -
Aug 31, 2010 10:25:30 PM CDT
What the fuck are you noobs talking about....
by mjs_cold_dead_pale_corpse
you might as well pay the money to see this monkey garbage by the way you are all talking. "There's a sucker born every minute"
Readers Talkback
User Login
Top Talkbacks
- A hot redhead (not Harry) is set to play lead in Fede Alvarez's remake of EVIL DEAD! -- 166 total posts 166 posts
- UPDATED: Talkbacker Bob Orci tweets STAR TREK old set pics! -- 243 total posts 87 posts
- The Friday Docback Spelunks 'The Caves Of Androzani'!! DOCTOR WHO Story #136, And More!! -- 90 total posts 81 posts
- RIDDICK Sequel Details Via A New Press Release!! -- 84 total posts 73 posts
- Here Comes THE GODMOTHER! -- 71 total posts 71 posts
- Rest In Peace Ben Gazzara -- 67 total posts 67 posts
- INSIDIOUS-ER? -- 120 total posts 42 posts
- ABC Has Cast The Lead In Its Future Nuclear Nation Pilot!! And They’ve Chosen Wisely!! -- 39 total posts 39 posts
- The Behind the Scenes Pic of the Day, you bitch! You never backed away from anything in your life! Now fight! FIGHT! -- 136 total posts 37 posts
- AWAKE, This Season’s Best Broadcast Pilot, Gets NBC’s Old ER Slot March 1!! THE FIRM To Burn Off On Saturdays!! -- 37 total posts 37 posts