Coaxial

‘No!! But He's
Renting It!!’

MAD MEN 1965!!

Published at: Aug. 15, 2010, 9:49 p.m. CST

I am – Hercules!! In last week’s Betty-free installment, the last set in 1964, Lane indulged a welcome distraction, Joan cut the dickens out of her finger, and Don got some really bad news about Anna Draper. It was titled “The Good News.” “I think [Don] just wants to do something for Lane because he can’t do anything for Anna,” explains series mastermind Matt Weiner. AMC says of tonight’s episode, titled “The Rejected”:
An edict from Roger and Lane puts Pete in a personal dilemma.
Also? Ken Cosgrove has again landed on his feet and Campbell’s not happy about it: January 4 – Lyndon B. Johnson proclaims his "Great Society" during his State of the Union Address. January 4 – Vinnie Jones born. January 20 – Johnson is sworn in for his own full term as U.S. President. January 30 – State funeral of Sir Winston Churchill takes place with the largest assembly of statesmen in the world until the 2005 funeral of Pope John Paul II. February 7 - Chris Rock born. February 20 - Ranger 8 crashes into the Moon, after a successful mission of photographing possible landing sites for the Apollo program astronauts. February 21 – Malcolm X is assassinated in Manhattan. March 2 – The Sound of Music premieres at the Rivoli Theater in New York City. March 2 – Sarah Jessica Parker born. March 23 – Gemini 3: NASA launches the United States' first 2-person crew (Gus Grissom, John Young) into Earth orbit. April 4 – Robert Downey Jr. born. April 5 – "My Fair Lady" wins 8 Academy Awards, including Best Picture. April 9 - The Astrodome opens. May 5 – The first draft card burnings take place at the University of California, Berkeley. May 17 – Trent Reznor born. June 7 – Mick Foley born. July 25 – Bob Dylan "goes electric" at the Newport Folk Festival. July 26 – Jeremy Piven born. July 29 – The first 4,000 101st Airborne Division paratroopers arrive in Vietnam, landing at Cam Ranh Bay. July 30 – Johnson signs the Social Security Act of 1965 into law, establishing Medicare and Medicaid. August 11 – The Watts Riots begin in Los Angeles. August 15 – The Beatles perform the first stadium concert in the history of rock, playing at New York's Shea Stadium. August 28 – Shania Twain born. August 30 - Dylan releases "Highway 61 Revisited," featuring "Like a Rolling Stone". September 3 - Charlie Sheen born. September 16 - China protests Indian provocations in its border region. September 28 – Cuba's Fidel Castro announces that anyone who wants to can emigrate to the United States. October 10 – Chris Penn born. November 2 - Republican John Lindsay is elected mayor of New York City. November 8 - "Days of our Lives" debuts on NBC. November 27 - Tens of thousands of Vietnam War protesters picket the White House. November 30 - Ben Stiller born. Episode titles: 4.1 Public Relations 4.2 Christmas Comes But Once A Year 4.3 The Good News 4.4 The Rejected 4.5 The Chrysanthemum and the Sword 4.6 Waldorf Stories 4.7 The Suitcase 4.8 The Summer Man 4.9 The Beautiful Girls 4.10 Hands and Knees 10 p.m. Sunday. AMC.
Follow Herc on Twitter!! Follow Evil Herc on Twitter!!
“Battlestar: Galactica” on Blu-ray, $244.99 last month, has momentarily fallen to $132.99!! That works out to Less Than $33.25 Per HD Season!! 56% Off!!
$7.99 UNFORGIVEN BLU-RAY!! STARRING LANE PRYCE'S DAD!!

Readers Talkback

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  • Aug. 15, 2010, 1:20 a.m. CST

    !

    by Psycho_Kenshin

    Love those crazy Mad Men

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 1:52 a.m. CST

    1965 had the 3rd greatest movie of all time: For a Few Dollars M

    by TakingScorpiosCalls

    For a Few Dollars More, right behind Return of the Jedi and The Good the Bad the Ugly.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 2:44 a.m. CST

    enough of the 60s

    by TakingScorpiosCalls

    It was pretty cool at first but now it's getting boring with everyone's nazi haircuts and 252 piece suits, i want to see them in plaid suits and fat ties and draper in slightly longer hair.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 2:47 a.m. CST

    Betty drags down this show

    by FrodoFraggins

    Sure she's great looking, but she's a bore of a character. Please Weiner, just get rid of her.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 3:19 a.m. CST

    Ha ha!

    by Riff_Randell

    I have that album!

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 4:45 a.m. CST

    TakingScorpiosCalls,,,fuck you....dont watch

    by brabon300

    nuff said<P>and geez, what is all this fucking ragging on betty...she is supposed to be a bore...and excuse me if i enjoy staring at january jones for an hour

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 7:24 a.m. CST

    Names

    by SuperXY

    Isn't Anna's last name Draper? I mean why would the real Don Draper's widow have the same last name as the fake Don Draper?

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 7:27 a.m. CST

    Thanks For The Important Events Rundown

    by Crow3711

    That could really come in handy when they drop some more subtle "whats going on in the world" discussion. Won't lie, last week I was little lost on the significance of the berkeley sit-ins. Had to look up what that was all about, so that list might give some perspective on things down the road. <p> Also? Really excited to hear Ken Cosgrove might be back. I was just talking to with my mother last night about how I was disappointed we hadn't seen any familiar faces from SC yet. And voila, here he is.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 7:28 a.m. CST

    SuperXY

    by Crow3711

    Do you even watch this show?

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 7:46 a.m. CST

    Frodo, What The Fuck...

    by Rebeck2

    Betty is Don's wife/ex-wife and one of the most important characters in the show. Her story represents the huge changes in society for women during the 60's and has been fascinating to watch as she's gone from neurotic frightened housewife to a hard-hearted but wiser divorcee society lady. Oh yeah, she's also real easy on the eyes. I don't get the contingent of guys on here every week going after Betty with such fervor. There's something going on, some weird Rorschach test for how you feel about women. Good luck with that. Anyway, she has barely been in the first three episodes, last week not at all, so what the hell are you talking about?

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 8:08 a.m. CST

    BIG PETE CAMPBELL EPISODE...

    by DanielKurland

    Can't fucking wait, guys. Can't fucking wait.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 8:51 a.m. CST

    Betty

    by ThrowMeTheIdol

    Yes the idea of her character is important and wouldn't it be nice if she could represent various changes but the reality is that January Jones is the worst actress on the show and one of the worst actresses on any major show that I watch so regardless of what the potential for the Betty character might have been, the less of her the better Mad Men is.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 9:17 a.m. CST

    It bugs me that they never mentioned...

    by Royston Lodge

    ...Lyndon Johnson's "Daisy" ad.<p> The most seminal political ad of the 20th century, and a show about ad executives in the 1960s didn't even mention it.<p> Weird.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 9:22 a.m. CST

    I dreamt I was Don Draper last night.

    by blackmantis

    Roger Sterling kept trying to suck my dick. What does that mean?

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 9:29 a.m. CST

    SUPER XY...

    by blackmantis

    Anna was married to the original Don Draper, so of course she'd have the same last name. Don switched identities with Anna Draper's husband in the war, right after he was killed in combat. Anna tracked down Don and confronted him about impersonating her husband. Once he explained everything she allowed him to continue with the lie.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 10:11 a.m. CST

    There is no Mrs Whitman

    by br1947

    It's Mrs Draper, the real Don Draper's widow

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 10:22 a.m. CST

    ThrowMeTheIdol

    by Rebeck2

    We're gonna' have to agree to disagree, buddy. I think January Jones has done an amazing job on the show, with a very full range of emotion and personality. I don't know what you've been watching. (Maybe her SNL hosting gig, which was pretty bad I have to say) She took her character from sympathetic victim to restless soul to bitter survivor. Give me an instance where her acting fell short of what the script and character required, because I can't think of one false moment.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 10:34 a.m. CST

    watch the scotch glass

    by RumpleWho

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 11:45 a.m. CST

    Glad Someone Said It Rebeck2

    by Crow3711

    I agree wholeheartedly. january does a pretty fantastic job. If you went through what she has with Don from S1 to end of S3, her character arc and transformation is pretty realistic and believable. She goes from a half-vapid barbie doll to a woman scorned. I think she fits the character perfect, and I've often commented to people how impressed I am that she started out as an Abercrombie model, is as insanely beautiful as she is, and manages to play such a complicated and angry character so well. I also can't really think of a single false moment or complaint I could levy against her. I really think these people just see too much of their own mothers in her performance and its some weird, freudian thing going on behind their disapproval of her.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 11:52 a.m. CST

    A Pete Campbell trainwreck

    by The McPoyle Clan

    is always fun to watch.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 12:06 p.m. CST

    Mad Men

    by Turd Furgeson

    Makes me want to smoke again, BAD!! Just started season 1 last night, 3 eps in, pretty good so far.. But after ep1 I was grabbing a glass of scotch and jonzing for a smoke!

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 12:44 p.m. CST

    Where's the True Blood talkback?!

    by Kontarsky

    Jesus Christ, the show is better than ever, high viewership for a special cable network, and you STILL ignore it. Whatever, bros. At least 4chan has a dedicated discussion for it.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 1 p.m. CST

    No brabon300... fuck YOUUUUUUU

    by TakingScorpiosCalls

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 1:01 p.m. CST

    I know Royston Lodge

    by TakingScorpiosCalls

    Sometimes when i'm laying at night i cannot go to sleep over anxiety that they didn't show that ad on the show. It's a tough life bro.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 1:10 p.m. CST

    I Want to see Sal back at Sterling Cooper

    by 2for2true

    Romano's story line was fascinating to watch, as is that of Betty's parenting skills, or lack thereof, especially where it concerns Sally. I can see that girl moving out to San Fernando Valley in 10 years and becoming Ron Jeremy's fluffer with a serious taste for Bolivian marching powder. Damn, there's so much good TV on tonight I might just have all 3 Tivos going at full speed. Everyone does realize the David Hasselhoff roast premiers tonight, right? I understand Pamela Anderson gets her yellow hep C ass handed to her by Whitney Cummings. Best quote I've heard so far is from Lisa Lampanelli: Hoff's liver is so black and bloated from drinking it was offered the leading role in the movie 'Precious.' That's comic gold, Jerry!

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 1:10 p.m. CST

    I Want to see Sal back at Sterling Cooper

    by 2for2true

    Romano's story line was fascinating to watch, as is that of Betty's parenting skills, or lack thereof, especially where it concerns Sally. I can see that girl moving out to San Fernando Valley in 10 years and becoming Ron Jeremy's fluffer with a serious taste for Bolivian marching powder. Damn, there's so much good TV on tonight I might just have all 3 Tivos going at full speed. Everyone does realize the David Hasselhoff roast premiers tonight, right? I understand Pamela Anderson gets her yellow hep C ass handed to her by Whitney Cummings. Best quote I've heard so far is from Lisa Lampanelli: Hoff's liver is so black and bloated from drinking it was offered the leading role in the movie 'Precious.' That's comic gold, Jerry!

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 1:54 p.m. CST

    It's Because You Watch True Blood and Say "Bros" Kontarsky

    by Crow3711

    That this site doesn't fucking want a True Blood talkback. A bunch of fucking frat boys coming in to talk about the one show on tv they watch, thats actually made for teenage girls and the semi-retarded. Get the fuck outta here, "bro"

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 2:01 p.m. CST

    Royston Lodge...the ad aired once

    by brabon300

    and brought lbj tons of bad press<p> and the show started in december 64, after the election season<p>and forget bringing back sal...the show needs a stan freburgh type character

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 2:46 p.m. CST

    "True Blood made for the semi-retarded"

    by SithMenace

    Lol. THAT'S gold Jerry.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 2:50 p.m. CST

    Sal is NOT needed

    by Shakeshift

    He is gay. He was fired. Nobody cares about the gay (f)art director anymore. Let it die. Move on.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 2:53 p.m. CST

    The Sal storyline was sad

    by SithMenace

    It was ironic that Don turned his back on Sal for being in the same situation Don was in with the dept. store girl. The difference is that Don was actually guilty of hurting the company and Sal wasn't. If the same thing had happened to Peggy instead of Sal, with the same Lucky Strike guy, I wonder if it would have turned out differently.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Sarah Jessica Parker

    by Timahh

    is older than Mick "Mankind" Foley and that is just plain old fucking hilarious. Other thoughts while looking at your time line, I am intrigued by what could be brought up with the assassination of Malcom X and the draft card burnings at UC Berkley.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 3:54 p.m. CST

    top to bottom

    by Kraven Morehead

    this is the best show on tv. trying to pitch this show is pretty tough because it's all in the execution. The Wire was great in the way it handled the every day minutia and made that the show's strength rather than its weekeness. True Blood is an entertaining show and does a good job with its cliffhanger endings but at the end of the day it's a show targeted at a female demographic that doesn't make people with a Y chromosome want to put a pistol in their mouth. I would also like to state, and this might be out of left field, that last week's "cut-to" of Don and Lane in the movie theatre was one of the funniest moments I've seen on tv or a movie this year.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 4:36 p.m. CST

    Betty not well acted?

    by DanielKurland

    Re-watch season two. She's fantastic. Now, I will agree that January Jones' SNL was terrible, but let's blame the writing, and the fact that she may not be the greatest at comedy, especially LIVE comedy. That being said, maybe the only role she can do is Betty, and you may hate the character, but it's because she's acting it so well.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Anybody remember the character Barbara Katz on the show?

    by Goon Bighead

    someone please jog my memory on this character which I believe was from the first season.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Barbara Katz...

    by Crow3711

    Was she Rachel's older sister? I think Rachel called her sister barbara once to tell her she met someone (speaking about Don) unless that was a different barbara? Almost positive she is Rachel Menken's sister, tho.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 4:56 p.m. CST

    Or The Katz Thing...

    by Crow3711

    Is weird, because now I'm reading on it, and it says Rachel married a guy named Tilden Katz. So it couldnt be Rachel's sister right, cause her name wouldn't be Katz too..? Now I'm a little confused myself.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 5 p.m. CST

    Looks like the Katz is out of the bag...

    by DanielKurland

    I apologize.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 5:31 p.m. CST

    Who is Draper going bang tonight?

    by Xiphos_2

    That's the question. Anybody want put down some sheckles on the over/under on the trim Draper pulls this season?

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 6:26 p.m. CST

    Xiphos_2....except for the hooker

    by brabon300

    don hasnt been all that successful in the bed dept<p>basically because his status has changed and women now look at him with an eye toward marriage...i say he gets nothing tonite

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 7:09 p.m. CST

    Crow3711

    by Goon Bighead

    She was in 2 eps from 2007. The actress who plays her is another stunning redhead who now plays Lenore on hbo's HUNG. I wa astounded to find out she was on 2 eps of MAD MEN. it's drivin me crazy trying to remember her as Barbara Katz!

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 7:10 p.m. CST

    Yeah, that was her name, Rachel Menken

    by SithMenace

    I would love to see her come back now that Don's single. Keep her married and reverse the situation. Plus she's very easy to look at.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 7:27 p.m. CST

    Xiphos...have you watched this season at all?

    by Crow3711

    Don isn't getting any trim unless he pays for it. It's kind of been a running theme here..

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 9:17 p.m. CST

    Gotta loved the support bras they wore back then!

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    Nice full support to kick those puppies nice n' high! Real attention-getters!

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 9:31 p.m. CST

    Crow3711 relax son I was joking

    by Xiphos_2

    Really you are allowed to have some fun about show chief there's no need to be hard on about it all the time.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 10:10 p.m. CST

    Woot - another Betty free episode

    by FrodoFraggins

    Without her dragging down an episode things really are much better paced. That's two weeks in a row. <br><br> Keep up the good work Weiner and keep Betty away from the show. She's served her purpose, but Peggy is the more interesting example of the change for women in the 60's.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 10:12 p.m. CST

    What do you make of that final shot?

    by Hercules

    An old man yells about pears as Don makes his way down the hall?

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 10:34 p.m. CST

    It ooks like he won't be getting any pears!

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    I personally think he going to kill her! Old people are fiesty!

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 10:38 p.m. CST

    I think the old couple makes him sad

    by FrodoFraggins

    Because he doesn't believe he'll ever find someone to grow old with. But he probably also fears finding someone and turning into that.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 10:40 p.m. CST

    pear

    by homerofthesea

    The simplest reading of the last scene: Don doesn’t want to be alone. Or old. But if he does have to get old, he doesn’t want to do it alone. He’d be looking for pears and there would be no one to lead him back to his apartment. Actually, the whole episode is full of good stuff: great season so far.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 11 p.m. CST

    Loved Peggy peeping over Don wall and her boyfriend

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    talking about getting Trudy "so pregnant"!<p>Funny, and not far from the truth if I was a mind reader! LOL

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 11:07 p.m. CST

    This show makes my head spin

    by Scoob1978

    You don't so much as watch it as live it. I didn't get the hype until I watched the end of the first season and now I'm hooked. I loved the new ken/pete relationship. They aren't enemies anymore so now they have a lot in common. Loved the split between Pete's people and Peggy's people. Amazing show.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 11:08 p.m. CST

    So is the lesbian Time magazine girl going to convert Peggy?

    by ShabbyBlue

    Seems like they might go that route in upcoming episodes. She seems REAL interested in Peggy. Hmmm...

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 11:09 p.m. CST

    The Nude Stills...

    by Crow3711

    Is it just me or is that kind of new for a cable network to show actual nipple like that. I know that they were artsy and black and white, but still....do other shows on FX and AMC ever show nudity like that? I'm no prude, I actually thought it was great, I mean who cares....but has that started happening on tv and ive missed it? It just seemed like....yea they can say shit now and do a lot of risque stuff...but those were just two naked girls. Just wondering if anyone else thought it was....I dont know...ballsy? <p> And the final shot was great. Some sort of meditation on both the pros and cons of marriage and Don's exclusion from that. I think he wrestles with whether he views those two as a beautiful old couple with the virtue of never being alone, or if he views as some sad, pointless ritual these people are just stuck with. Very complicated emotions and looks flying around in those last 3 minutes. I literally said out loud when it ended "this show blows my mind" its just unbelievable how many shows struggle to create meaningful drama through spectacle and bombast, and this show wrecks my brain week in and week out with the subtlest of glances between characters. Drama through history. Through character. Who would have imagined such a thing.

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 11:11 p.m. CST

    Final Shot

    by PantherMatt

    Herc, for me, the whole episode was about the relativity of age, "Maturity", and changing social mores. Kenny makes disparaging comments about Don's age, as does Allison (the secretary. not sure if that's her name), and the fact that he's a drunk. Peggy at the "happening" and her views on nudes in a magazine, and the vocalized personal awareness of the young ladies in the focus group juxtapose nicely with past social gatherings at the (former) Draper household, and Betty's quiet torments. In the final shot we see what "old" is from Don's viewpoint, and the aged wife's comment that "We'll discuss it inside" illustrates the past generation's view of what's appropriate conversation for public consumption. Or something like that...

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 11:15 p.m. CST

    This ep took place right at the end of February

    by ShabbyBlue

    Thanks to the timeline posted on this page and Peggy mentioning Malcolm X's recent assasination. They are moving fast through 1965. Almost 2 months into the year between the last episode and this one!

  • Aug. 15, 2010, 11:18 p.m. CST

    Oh boy! Next week is a Betty episode! </sarcasm>

    by ShabbyBlue

    Did I hear that right in the promo? She want's Don DEAD? Yikes...

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 12:07 a.m. CST

    EVERY time there's a major Pete episode...

    by DanielKurland

    He ends up cobbling together some huge deal.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 12:24 a.m. CST

    Pete will end up running this agency by the 1980s

    by ShabbyBlue

    Unless he moves on to more succesful ventures

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 12:39 a.m. CST

    Peggy and Pete are the real center of MM

    by Xiphos_2

    Through these two we are going to see the major social schism of the 1960's. Peggy is entering the avaunt guard art world, pot smoking, flirting with lesbianism "downtown" NYC of the 60's. Not to mention that she is the vanguard of early feminism(without knowing it) by moving up steadily at work, accumulating more power and prestige along the way and making the big shots and former big shots become accountable to her. Outside of work She has had affairs on her terms and a kid out of wedlock, she is the new modern women. I have to say I liked backbone Peggy we saw tonight. Her pointed words to Don's secretary really shows she get's it.<p> Pete is going to be her polar opposite. Married, kids, corporate positions. Pete represents what was the majority of the rest of the world during 1960's. Pete is the perfect representation of the establishment that he really doesn't care to belong to but feels he must. That look at the end when Peggy was leaving with the hipsters spoke volumes about them and their new found potions in life.<p>It's Draper who is really a man out of his time, where does he belong? he has made his own place in the world that is not beholden to really anything except a dead guy in Korea. Both Cooper and Sterling are of there respective times and places, just like Pete and Peggy will be. It will be interesting to see if Draper has the flexibility still to make his own place in a fast changing world. I'm not sure he can do it myself.<p>Lastly Megan is a piece of ass. The Photog rug muncher has a good eye.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 12:55 a.m. CST

    Pete's destiny lies elsewhere....

    by Voice O. Reason

    ...he belongs in politics. He'll end up working for Nixon, I just know it...

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 12:57 a.m. CST

    You haven't seen the last of Kenny Cosgrove!

    by Voice O. Reason

    What with the actor's name still being in the opening credits and all.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 1:01 a.m. CST

    There's the Pete I like

    by lock67ca

    Just when it looks like he's turning into a nice guy, he goes and pulls some slimeball move on his daady-in-law and the old Pete Campbell is back in business. Way to go Pete. It looks like Paggy is going to be heading down the same road as Jenny in Forrest Gump.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 1:05 a.m. CST

    Funny how Peggy FLIPPED HER SHIT at Allison

    by Voice O. Reason

    Was it just because Alison implied Peggy used to be in love with Don just because she was his secretary? Or was it because she was remembering how much better she handled (and was still handling) her more painful situation with Pete? Ah, nuance.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 1:07 a.m. CST

    Peggy not Paggy

    by lock67ca

    Damn lack of an edit feature. Damn lack of typing skills. That is all.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 1:20 a.m. CST

    Two quick points, then time to sleep:

    by Greggers

    First: Fucking hell! I was totally wrong about Allison! I thought for sure that her tryst with Don would fade into the ether and remain a background hum for the remainder of her (perhaps long) tenure on the show. Boy was I wrong. That's right up there with the "Don will NEVER bang Sally's teacher" prediction last season. I am clearly not a very good MAD MEN prognosticator.<P> 2. My read on the exchange in the hallway had less to do with Don's loneliness and had more to do with Don's exchange with the psychiatrist and the focus group. Like with the focus group, Don was an observer on an emotional conflict. But the conflict in the hallway was natural, unlike the contrived focus group, and the exploration/resolution of the conflict was private and behind closed doors. Just like Don had tried to explain.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 1:21 a.m. CST

    peggys reaction was also jealousy

    by paulloch

    she wanted to rent her vagina to Don, but settled for Pete, and the new "inferior to peggy" girl gets him so easily. I wonder how often Peggy eavesdrops on Don. Also, loved Pete's reaction to the congratulations, thought it was for the acct, not the baby. Love his priorities. Sal will probably return when stonewall happens

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 1:27 a.m. CST

    best episode this year

    by brabon300

    maybe the best since the first season

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 1:30 a.m. CST

    btw, the nudes were art

    by brabon300

    why the fuck did we have to be warned before the show started

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 1:50 a.m. CST

    the beatnik dyke was played by

    by brabon300

    david mamet's daughter....how cool is that

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 2:35 a.m. CST

    What Don is trying to say is...

    by Lashlarue

    Society convinces these little girls that they're supposed to grow up and get married and have kids. That's it. <p> He thinks he can change all that.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 2:36 a.m. CST

    Peggy peeking over the wall

    by Lashlarue

    GENIUS!

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 3:08 a.m. CST

    slattery directed....it shows

    by brabon300

    there were touches in here that im sure the writers didnt script<p> the waiter getting the names wrong...peggy eavedropping...cooper hanging out in the lobby....the extended, "did you get the pears"...the overall pacing and timing in the dialogue

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 6:01 a.m. CST

    What was Allison's problem with Don's reference suggestion?

    by Jardinier

    I thought that was perfectly nice of him: "Write yourself the best recommendation ever, I'll sign it, because it's probably all true." Throwing stuff seems kind of an over-reaction. Did she think, "he doesn't even care enough about me to take five minutes to pen a recommendation?" Women...<br><br> You have to love Joan, though, for replacing her with the oldest, least desirable crone possible. The Allison situation definitely won't repeat itself with her...

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 7:36 a.m. CST

    Megan is the Hot Tub Time Machine girl

    by The McPoyle Clan

    Another one of the subtle joys of this show is how good they make some of actresses look when put them into the period. Don's fling in California is another one that comes to mind.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 7:48 a.m. CST

    I love the complexity!

    by Sacredfun

    Peggy will try on Faye's ring, but let's be honest, she's never going to be happy with that bland boyfriend of hers (who's she lying to and telling she's a virgin). And then this artist guy Gabe pops up, and I love when he says he thinks he should kiss her, she's the one to lean in and go for it. But if her reaction to Pete's baby news didn't get me (with her banging her head on the desk), her look to him in the lobby brought tears to my eyes. Elisabeth Moss can do SO MUCH with a look, and does it so consistently on this show. There's a lot of Emmy worthiness to go around on this show, but I would put Moss ahead of the pack!

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 7:54 a.m. CST

    Slattery will get a best direction nod for this one

    by 2for2true

    The confrontation scenes were handled beautifully - from Pete and his father-in-law to Don and the secretary, a real mastery to this episode. The season highlight thus far....

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 8:36 a.m. CST

    final shot

    by Himbo

    I think it was to make Don reevaluate growing old alone; He has been self-pitying and drinking himself into a stupor. Every other time he's in that hallway, a couples/caregiving scene emerges: The old people talking pears; Alison bringing Don his keys; Cute nurse emerging to help Don... And who told Don he'd be married in a year? <p>Everything in this ep was couplehood: not having it (and wanting it)(Alison), having it (Kenny), doubting it (Peggy's), moving through couplehood into family-hood (Pete). Don is moving backward, deleveraging from his family. <p>Don is just about to wrap up his year of grief for his defunct marriage and defunct agency. I think he is going to get his proactive mojo on real soon, and pickup his self-dependence. I think he will move, and we will once again see hard-at-work, cootch-grabbing Don F'ing Draper. I'm really looking forward to him throwing Betty and her worthless husband out on their ear. <p> And I love that we aren't seeing much Betty this season. We have seen characters that seem integral disappear. But that is frequently how life is: people come, people go, but life goes on. Even Don Draper's life.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 8:48 a.m. CST

    Jardinier - Alison's problem with Don's suggestion

    by Himbo

    Is that it is another way for Don to say "I don't want to be bothered by you" and "I can't afford ANY time or interest in doing something nice for you." <p> There is a great scene in Billy Wilder's "The Apartment" where Fred MacMurray is done having his Christmas fling with Miss Kubilicke. She is just realizing he is NEVER going to return her affection. He mentions that he didn't have time to buy her a Christmas gift, so he just pulls cash out of his wallet and tells her to buy herself something nice. She stares at the money and realizes she is just his whore. <p> In matters of the heart, women prefer that a man expend effort and inconvenience himself, to any other form of currency/function. It is why when you get married, you can't ever just say "whatever you want baby" because she hears "I don't care baby". <p> On the plus side, a little inconvenience goes a long long way with most women. Not too much, because it makes you look weak. It must be reluctant effort.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 8:55 a.m. CST

    Final shot - simpler version

    by Himbo

    Why "pears"? Because it is a homonym for "pairs". The old coot could just as easily been asking for "bananas" or "oranges".

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 9:14 a.m. CST

    Been mentioned a thousand times but

    by ZoeFan

    Peggy's evesdropping scene = PURE GENIUS!!!!! With amazing shows like this, how can anybody enjoy the majority of the stuff on TV?

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 9:44 a.m. CST

    eavesdropping, also the word "shit"

    by PotSmokinAlien

    why was the eavesdropping scene so brilliant? i mean, it was funny, but i didn't get much more out of it than a chuckle...<P>anyone else notice that they seem to be contractually obligated this season to have someone say the word "shit" twice per episode?

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 9:49 a.m. CST

    Himbo

    by Jardinier

    Yeah, I get that that's what she's feeling, but I think it's unfair towards Don. She may even be right in her assessment that he's "not a good person," but not based on how he has treated her. He didn't rape her, he didn't (really) seduce her, he didn't whisper sweet promises in her ear to get her in bed: they had a consensual, drunk, ill-advised one-night stand after an office party. It was a mistake, Don realised it and "got over it" in typical Draper fashion: not talking about it. <br><br> He could have handled that better, but he wasn't being deliberately cruel to Allison. The christmas bonus wasn't a prostitution pay-off, it was a token of his appreciation for her hard work (which, as I think has already been mentioned, he had laid aside *before* the party). And him offering to sign anything she brought in without question is also a sign of confidence in her abilities. Had she said no, she'd prefer him to write a few words himself, he would doubtless have done so. <br><br> I'm not a Draper apologist, but with the whole Allison situation, I feel he really is being misunderstood (certainly by Allison herself and some viewers). From Don's point of view, the Apartment comparison isn't apt, because he never intended his secretary to be his plaything who needed to be strung along (in fact, as we know, he disapproves of such trysts). From the day after the party, he would prefer everything to be the way it was before; as far as Don is concerned, there really isn't a relationship beyond the professional. It's Allison who can't let go of that night and its implications. <br> I don't really think it's a woman thing, either (despite my exasperated sigh in the previous post). Would Joan have flipped out like that (or post-pregnancy Peggy, or Bobbie Barrett, or any number of strong, confident women on the show)?

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 9:54 a.m. CST

    Genius for the following reason

    by ZoeFan

    It was a very clever and life like way for Peggy to find out stuff about Don without him knowing. Very well written. Or as someone else mentioned, improved by Elizabeth Moss by suggestion of the Director.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 11:46 a.m. CST

    Cooper just sittingt in the lobby, doing noting

    by lock67ca

    Cracked me up.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 12:02 p.m. CST

    Alison's problem...

    by BizarroJerry

    After their night together, Don not only wanted to move on, he didn't even want to acknowledge it. Barely even showed any warm feelings toward her at all. He didn't say it was a mistake or anything. Didn't apologize in even a vague way, or suggest they should move on. Right to the end he treated it all like business, and didn't even seem like he cared she was upset. Damn, am I turning into a woman...?

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 12:03 p.m. CST

    Awesome Pete scene

    by BizarroJerry

    He's starting to get along with his father-in-law, then rakes him over the coals. The best part? "You son of a bitch," followed by a shrug. Classic.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 12:10 p.m. CST

    You're absolutely right about Alison, jardinier.

    by AnnoyYou

    She was projecting all her dreams and fantasies onto Don BEFORE their hookup. When he actually made a pass at her, she knew he was drunk and she did resist, but her little "oh God" before she succumbed proved it was something she'd hoped would happen. She just didn't think about the aftermath realistically, which was evident in the Ponds focus group - all those girls actually thought looking pretty and being compliant was all that was needed to "land" a man and are devastated when that turns out not to be true. Contrast this to Peggy, who is independent and determinedly experiencing real sexual freedom (with all its attendant problems) or to Joan, who has wielded her sexuality for both [limited] power and to fulfill her life dreams [which are not exactly turning out as planned]. The women on this show fascinate me, including the scary Betty and smarter-than-we-think Trudy, who both have used their great beauty and grace to get what they want, again to somewhat limited results. Just another facet of what makes Mad Men the best series on American television.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 12:53 p.m. CST

    Allison's breakdown...

    by BizarroJerry

    Yes, that showed that she was being unrealistic about it. But even so, Don was still acting like a jerk. One of his problems seems to be that he expects everyone else to be able to "just get over it" like he does.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 12:58 p.m. CST

    Peggy's "girlfriend"

    by BizarroJerry

    While on one level I think it'd be fun to see Peggy have some fun with her new friend, I kind of hope they don't go that route. In a show that seems to be showing us the unfair way women are stereotyped, I think it'd be big step backwards if they suddenly made their one strong business woman into a lesbian. I have faith that they won't, and that Peggy's just exploring "another world" again.<p>Her new friends seem to be that weird kind of group in that era that were sitting between the beatniks and the hippies. And I must admit I loved when the other guy acknowledged the artist was being a real prick with his attitude.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 1:44 p.m. CST

    Good News - Season 5 Is A Lock

    by Rebeck2

    They're auctioning off a walk-on role for next season on Ebay - it's up to 15k already. Check it out, just take out the space after Mad Men: http://cgi.ebay.com/Mad-Men -Walk-On-Role-Season-5-Los-Angeles-/180546263841?pt=Tickets_Experiences

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 2:27 p.m. CST

    Allison breakdown-"Am I a whore?"

    by MGTHEDJ

    Allison received 100 dollars as a Christmas bonus, the day after they had sex. Then in Feb, Don said I'll sign what you write because "your performance" has been good. Allison had a moment where that could have meant "I was good at sucking your dick." That's when she throw the object on the desk at him. He rejected her, and he was insensitive.<p>Faye is interesting because both her an Don are both right. Knowing what the customer thinks can help, but Don has always been good at making people think they need something they have never considered.<p>The Peggy and Pete at lunchtime scene was great. She was with the future, Pete was with the past. And Pete will get Clearisil back because the bulk of the baby boom is going to hit puberty in the next 3 years, so sales will sky-rocket.-----later----m

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 2:29 p.m. CST

    just wanna take a moment...

    by RosemarysBabyDaddy

    ...and thank those taking part in this talkback on a weekly. My "Mad Men" experience isn't complete until I read all the reactions and predictions here. While I may not agree with everything shared here, I always learn a little something. Personally, I have nothing new to offer (Don Draper is emotionally dead; Pete Campbell is a douche; Joan has big titties, etc.), but I just wanted to say "thank you" to those that DO have something to say about my favorite TV show.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 2:35 p.m. CST

    RosemarysBabyDaddy....

    by ZoeFan

    I second that. Himbo is this TBs Allstar.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 3:01 p.m. CST

    BizarroJerry

    by Xiphos_2

    I don't think they are going to have Peggy go down the lesbian route, I think they were showing how at ease she is in the nascent counter-culture of NYC. Peggy is going to be how we experience the growing hippie movement.<p>Mad Men was quite clever with Peggy in last night's episode in how they are showing her changing personality; her spying on Don, flipping the script on Allison, trying on Blond Nazi doctors wedding ring and her hanging with the early hippies show just what a state of flux and change she's in. Oh and then there is the whole baby angle and her sexuality. Peggy was a home run last night.<p>Does anybody that knows anything more about art then me(which is probably everybody) have any idea who Abe and the douchetard artist are supposed to be or represent?

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 3:07 p.m. CST

    "Megan is the Hot Tub Time Machine girl"

    by Xiphos_2

    Was she the one in the bath with Darryle from The Office? If so she has nice cans.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Another Don and Peggy link

    by Xiphos_2

    They both enjoy renting the vagina.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Best Episode of the Season

    by Karuma

    in a season that hasn't been all that good so far. However, their attempt to show a slice of bohemian life fails since it is mostly 7 years too late. Most of what Peggy witnessed happened in 1958. By 1965, the precursors of the hippie movement were moving into the Village and the film that was shown was woefully out of date. By '65 psychedelia was becoming the fad on the East Coast. Weiner should probably talk to someone who was actually there instead of just showing what he thinks happened. At this rate, by the time we get to 1968, Reagan will be in office and the up and coming band Nirvana will be the featured band at the Sterling, Draper, Cooper, and Pryce Christmas party.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Thank you ZoeFan

    by Himbo

    You have no idea how good that makes me feel. I've felt ill-used at work all day, and that's the first praise I've gotten outside my family. <p> Remember Talkbackers: the smallest kindness can heal a crack in a saddened heart.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 5:38 p.m. CST

    the shrug was brilliant. along with peggy popping her head

    by therootstheroots

    this show is brilliant. can't wait to rewatch it.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 6:01 p.m. CST

    Hot Tub Time Machine Girl

    by Voice O. Reason

    Tara, the quite topless groupie Craig Robinson bangs in "Hot Tub Time Machine," and Megan were both played by the incredibly beautiful Jessica Paré.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 6:32 p.m. CST

    prediction for next ep

    by PotSmokinAlien

    i'm wondering if peggy might show her countercultural leanings by trying to use the nude photos as art for the Ponds ads... i think that'd be cool. and i think don would surprise everybody by backing her on it.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 7:18 p.m. CST

    Interesting what Cosgrove said about McCann...

    by Royston Lodge

    ...when one considers that McCann proceeded to have incredible growth in the second half of the 1960s, and is still a strategic communications powerhouse.<p> Add that to the disdain Don has for research and I think it reinforces my oft-spoken prediction that the Sterling-Cooper boys are going to crash and burn because all the partners in the firm are so old-fashioned.<p> On other subjects:<p> - Peggy won't go gay. Her lesbian friend backed off immediately and set her sights elsewhere. She's not predatory. Plus, Peggy kissed the dude on the closet. Peggy is all about the cock.<p> - Whenever I see Alison Brie's name in the opening credits, my heart skips a beat.<p> - Fuck Don, how fucking hard is it for you to just say "I'm sorry." Fuckin' douche.<p> - Gee, it's the late 1960s with the baby boomers about to hit their teenage years, and you guys want Ponds instead of Clearasil?! Morons...

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 7:22 p.m. CST

    One other thing...

    by Royston Lodge

    ...I thought that making the elderly secretary a bit of an idiot was a real dick move on the part of the writers. Why not give Don a good secretary that he DOESN'T want to fuck?

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 7:40 p.m. CST

    Karuma

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    They already showed slices of "bohemian life" in season one, this isn't the first time. Asking them to show it before season 1 would be a little silly.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 7:42 p.m. CST

    "Lee, the JOCKEY smokes the cigarette"

    by Bass Ackwards

    The half conversation with Lucky Strikes got a bigger laugh from me then Peggy's eavesdropping. "Oh my god there's a fire."

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 7:51 p.m. CST

    karuma

    by goshyourethewrongest

    have a look at POPISM: THE WARHOL 60's to learn that you are woefully amiss in your assessment of the downtown art scene, circa 1965. Mad Men got it so so right. psychedelia is on the way, naturally, but the NYC scene was besotted with the warhol factory at this point and for several years beyond. the way the guys were dressed in that loft scene, exaggerated leather = gerard malanga early 1965. "exploding plastic inevitable" is a year away.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 8:56 p.m. CST

    Peggy changing

    by BizarroJerry

    She is the character who has changed the most on the show. And I like how they show her not being just easily taken in and gullible when she sees these different people and different lifestyles. While in season one, she was afraid of her own shadow. Her friend (forgot her name) tries to kiss her and she just brushes it off and lets her know she likes men. Doesn't freak out. She doesn't like the movie, but acknowledges it's just probably not for her. It would've been more predictable to have her act like some dumb gullible kid.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 8:58 p.m. CST

    Always a great talkback

    by bee152

    Interesting and well thought out responses to a great and innovative show. Look forward to reading your comments every week. Says much to the character of the show and it's audience. Thanks.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 9:04 p.m. CST

    The secretary...

    by BizarroJerry

    I agree. If they wanted to be honest, the tough old lady would probably be a better secretary. And in proper Mad Men fashion, they could still mock her for being old, despite her competence.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 9:09 p.m. CST

    Old secretary...

    by DanielKurland

    Totally got Mrs. Landingham vibes from her.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 9:33 p.m. CST

    McCann is a real agency?

    by Xiphos_2

    I've learned something new today so it isn't a completer waste. Is the new place Cosgrove works for also real?

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 9:41 p.m. CST

    I'm probably way off base with the end scene

    by Detective_Fingerling

    but I felt like this episode had a lot to do with showcasing the women of the era. They showed Peggy and the lesbian in some take charge moments. Kind of shifting to the time where the women had a more "visible" role in society and at home. The frail, old man at the end was at the mercy of his wife. He kept asking about the peaches and she decided to ignore him until she wanted to answer him. He was completely lost.

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 10:17 p.m. CST

    Royston Lodge

    by brabon300

    i was thinking the same thing...its the one thing the writers got wrong<p>part of the ad game is to do demographic studies...and the agency would have known (at least by the change in tv) that the boomer gen was about to explode<p>we are talking teens with money to burn...who all care about that unsightly zit<p>pretty shocked that they wouldnt have pete trying to push that<p>wonder if it is based on reality

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 10:18 p.m. CST

    pare has

    by brabon300

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 10:19 p.m. CST

    oops....clicked too soon

    by brabon300

    pare' has been around for a decade....why is she still only doing indies and tv? she is stunning

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 10:49 p.m. CST

    Love, love, love, loved this episode!

    by RedJester

    Although I do agree it would have been fun to not have the old secretary being such a stereotype. That said, the 50's and early 60's were one big stereotype anyway so it's kinda fitting...

  • Aug. 16, 2010, 10:59 p.m. CST

    Whole Ep Was About the Generation Gap

    by OutsideChance

    ...or at least the rise of youth culture and future vs the old guard. The final scene encapsulated it with the Peggy and the proto-hippies in the hall as she looks at Pete standing around with the old white men.

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 12:24 a.m. CST

    We're definitely not supposed to like Betty

    by lock67ca

    She's an emotionally stunted, pampered princess trophy wife and a terrible mother. As Don pointed out, she acts like a child most of the time. She's so beneath him, it's not funny. Is it any wonder he cheated on her every chance he got, often with women who were so much better than she is? It's kind of sad that he's been reduced to sleeping with hookers. So, if you can't stand Betty, if you feel like throwing something at the TV every time she's on screen, then Miss Jones is playing the part to perfection, and kudos to her for it.

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 6:55 a.m. CST

    Key line from Don tonight...

    by jimmythesaint

    "You can't predict how someone's GOING to behave based on how they HAVE behaved."

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 9:33 a.m. CST

    January Jones creating a bimbo perception?

    by 2for2true

    of herself (not of Betty) by the bad SNL performance and the whole 'walk of shame' thing. I've caught myself wondering if perhaps we'd given her too much credit for creating the Betty persona, if maybe she is simply a vapid pretty face surrounded by an otherwise brilliant cast and production company. Given the fact she seems to generate plenty of comment in this talk back, despite the fact she hardly had any screen time this season, I may have misjudged her. I have a feeling they're saving Betty's main story arc for the latter part of the season. Let's see where she takes us this time next month. I'm still fascinated by her relationship with Sally...whom I still believe will end up being one twisted little sick fuck of a teenager..

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 9:52 a.m. CST

    Crow3711

    by HoboCode

    I don't know about nipple but Blade: The Series on Spike showed bare female ass.

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Fucking awesome episode by the way.

    by HoboCode

    This show is especially great so far this season. I'm not a rabid Betty hater like some but I have to admit I have not missed her the last couple episodes. She's great eye-candy but JJ brings very little depth to the character for me. Perhaps it's because Betty has no depth, but I think she's just a bad actress. <p> P&P episodes are always my faves and this didn't disappoint. Pete is such a scumbag in so many ways, and yet out of all the guys on the show he's probably the most progressive in terms of his attitudes on sex and race, at least in terms of business. That's probably while he'll be running the place soon. Or jumping out of the window. Who knows?

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 12:39 p.m. CST

    Nudity and cussing on TV, thowback to 1990's

    by MGTHEDJ

    In the 1990's Broadcast and Basic-cable TV took huge strides. NYPD Blue of course, but ER in it's first or second season showed bare butts, Chicago Hope did a topless scene involving reconstruction surgery on a young woman how had breast cancer. They showed the doctor examining her implants in recovery. And David Kelly's "Civil Wars" had Mariel Hemmingway posing for a nude on screen.<p>Also on ER with Dr. Green was dying of cancer he fell out of bed and yelled "Shit!" Chicago Hope had one doctor say "Shit Happens."<p>After Bush took office in 2001, broadcast backed off in fear of fines from the FCC, since many of the biggest backers of Bush's campaign were the various social conservative groups. Basic Cable has picked up the slack from the 1990's, and pay cable is currently doing stuff that would get an NC-17 if it had to rated by the MPAA.-----later-----m

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 1:10 p.m. CST

    January Jones

    by lock67ca

    I haven't seen much of her outside of Mad Men, and I missed the SNL appearance. She could very well be a vapid airhead, in which case, she's still perfect for the role of Betty.

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 1:47 p.m. CST

    lock67ca

    by HoboCode

    That's just it though. Is Betty supposed to come off as vapid, or JJ just bringing no nuances to the role? It's really difficult to ascertain where the line is. I almost think Weiner has written her out somewhat because he starting to realize she doesn't have the chops to make Betty anything more than a petulant child.

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Betty is a petulant child

    by MGTHEDJ

    That's the point of her character. She has severe "Daddy Issues." The new mother-in-law after Thanksgiving dinner said she is a "silly woman." I had a co-workerwho was born in the 1950's whose parents were Don and Betty. His father was a cheater, his mom became a drunk. They were the richest family on their block but the poorest family at the country club. Betty hates living in North Westchester County, because by god it's practically Poughkeepsie, and feels she should be living in South Westchester County, or better still Connecticut!-----later-----m

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 4:33 p.m. CST

    Xiphos: Yup, it is a real agency.

    by Royston Lodge

    I'm pretty sure every agency they've mentioned on the show (with the exception of Sterling-Cooper of course) is a real-world agency that ended up becoming HUGE:<p> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCann_Erickson

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 4:43 p.m. CST

    BizarroJerry: Regarding Peggy, I agree, but...

    by Royston Lodge

    ...she also has a tendency to be an insensitive jerk at times. Like, she doth protest too much and is having a hard time reconciling being successful and also being feminine.<p> To often, she gets angry at other people for the way they act and the assumptions they make, when the other people don't mean to be offensive. She's not always particularly tolerant of people who simply don't know any better.<p> The way she snapped at poor crying Alison in the office was a good example. Alison wasn't accusing Peggy of sleeping with Don, but at the same time why would it be unreasonable that Alison might assume the two of them might have something in common since they were both Don's secretary at one point?<p> On the other hand, was Peggy pissed off because she was insulted by the suggestion that she could possibly have something in common with Alison (is Peggy a snob?)? Or was Peggy pissed off because Alison actually had a point? Maybe Peggy wonders if the only reason she never fucked Don was because Don didn't think she was hot enough?<p> The other example was when she insulted Freddy by calling him "old fashioned". Granted, he was being a pig-headed, condescending douche at the time, but she could have tried to fight back on a professional level by arguing with him over the merits of the argument rather than insulting him personally.<p> I'm not criticising the writers. I'm fascinated by Peggy's character.<p> But sometimes I really DO NOT like her very much.<p> Also, I don't think she's very good at pitching her ideas. She seems to just throw shit at the wall to see what sticks, rather than building a comprehensive pitch to justify her ideas.

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 4:50 p.m. CST

    brabon300: I don't think the writers got it wrong.

    by Royston Lodge

    These moments are not new to the show.<p> Remember the German psychiatrist they used to have on staff, how Don shot down her ideas, and how Pete was the only one to realize that she was making really good sense?<p> Also there was Pete's recognition of African-Americans' increasing purchasing-power.<p> I genuinely believe all these moments are written into the show to tell the audience that Sterling-Cooper (Draper and Pryce) is an agency in decline, and in the process of being completely bypassed by the new thinking at agencies like McCann, BBDO, and maybe foremost, Doyle Dane Bernbach (DDB).<p> (Historical error on the show: At the time it was BBDO that had the Pepsi account, not McCann. The "Pepsi Generation" campaign was launched in 1964.)

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 5:05 p.m. CST

    HoboCode: I think Pete is less of a scumbag each season.

    by Royston Lodge

    As far as we know, he hasn't cheated on Trudy since they were married. He seems genuinely delighted that he's going to be a father. The way he reacted during the Kennedy Assassination seemed to indicate some basic decency.<p> I even thought the way he managed his father-in-law was actually very pragmatic. He saw that there's actually more opportunity for growth with his father-in-law's company than with Ponds. If Pete believes that SCDP is truly the better agency, then from his point-of-view it was not in his father-in-law's best interest to take his business to another agency. IF the only way to keep Clearasil was to twist the guy's arms to give SCDP all the company's business, and IF the manoeuvre was actually in both their companies' best-interest, then MAYBE it's worth risking a little bad blood between them.<p> Pete's reaction when the father-in-law called him a sunovabitch may have been a little douchey, but the alternative was to either beg for the man's business or to beg for forgiveness, neither of which would serve to inspire the man when it come's to Pete's abilities as a businessman.<p> I can imagine that when the father-in-law got home, had a few shots of Canadian Club, and contemplated what had just happened, he could recognize the wisdom of Pete's manoeuvre.<p> Or, another way of looking at it, contrast Pete's actions to what Don did when he was ordered to cut Mohawk Airlines free. Don sheepishly told the Mohawk president that he was sorry, that it wasn't his decision, can we still be friends, etc, etc, wank, wank, wank. He came off looking like an asshole AND terribly weak at the same time, AND the agency didn't even benefit from the manoeuvre since American Airlines chose a different agency in the end.<p> By contrast, Pete's manoeuvre may make him look like a jerk, but it also shows him as shrewd, strong, and even loyal! In the long-run, would it have been better for him to simply cut his father-in-law loose? If he'd done that, NOBODY would have won! The father-in-law would have lost SCDP's expertise, Pete would have lost an important account, and the father-in-law would have thought Pete was a jerk AND a weak-willed little weasel.<p> It seems to me that Pete made the very best of a bad situation.

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 7:17 p.m. CST

    Ummmm...Royston

    by HoboCode

    I think you might have forgotten about Pete basically raping his neighbor's German au pair last season after he blackmailed her with the dress.

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 8:50 p.m. CST

    Royston thank you

    by Xiphos_2

    For the info. I never bothered to check out any names of the other agencies I figured they were all fake. That goes to show I don't know jack about anything.

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 11:20 p.m. CST

    Great episode

    by deelzbub

    Finally saw it tonite on Surfthechannel.<P> Those glass partitions do make it easy to spy on your neighbor!

  • Aug. 17, 2010, 11:23 p.m. CST

    Dont think Peggy is going full on girl on girl

    by deelzbub

    but I would like to see a little exploration from her. The chick from Life is cute. Would be a nice FU to Pete and society's ring finger expectations as well.

  • Aug. 18, 2010, 12:28 a.m. CST

    Mad Men 1950s

    by TakingScorpiosCalls

    Would have been great too.

  • Aug. 18, 2010, 9:27 a.m. CST

    So right about "Daisy" ad Royston

    by leo54304

  • Aug. 18, 2010, 1:03 p.m. CST

    HoboCode: A German au pair doesn't count as a "person".

    by Royston Lodge

    Heyooooooo!<p> I kid! I kid!

  • Aug. 18, 2010, 1:26 p.m. CST

    the Feminine Mystique

    by sleepingbear

    I wonder when one of the women in the office are going to read "the Feminine Mystique". I'm hoping it will be Joan ;-)

  • Aug. 18, 2010, 2:12 p.m. CST

    who gives a shit about the daisy ad

    by TakingScorpiosCalls

    ooooh lets have them talk 2 minutes about it. fuck it.

  • Aug. 18, 2010, 9:17 p.m. CST

    I didn't get why Peggy's lesbian friend

    by punto

    I didn't get why Peggy's lesbian friend wanted to meet her at her office instead of the lobby at the end.. her friends wanted to check out the receptionist? why? they'd never seen a secretary before? is she like insanely hot for her time? I loved how the lesbian acted like a man towards her the first time tho, saying something like "thank you sweetheart" when she gets Peggy for her.

  • Aug. 19, 2010, 2:18 a.m. CST

    it's not out of the realm of possibility

    by paulloch

    for Don to get so drunk and wake up next to the old secretary (she looks like she's into rough stuff too) He did down a whole bottle and completely forgot about it -- a sure sign of alcoholism

  • Aug. 19, 2010, 4:26 p.m. CST

    Paulloch, I said the same thing...as a joke

    by DanielKurland

    Sure, it COULD happen, but I really don't see things going down that road. At all. Now the alcoholism on the other hand...