Cool News
‘No!! But He's
Renting It!!’
MAD MEN 1965!!
I am – Hercules!!
In last week’s Betty-free installment, the last set in 1964, Lane indulged a welcome distraction, Joan cut the dickens out of her finger, and Don got some really bad news about Anna Draper. It was titled “The Good News.”
“I think [Don] just wants to do something for Lane because he can’t do anything for Anna,” explains series mastermind Matt Weiner.
AMC says of tonight’s episode, titled “The Rejected”:
An edict from Roger and Lane puts Pete in a personal dilemma.
Also? Ken Cosgrove has again landed on his feet and Campbell’s not happy about it:
January 4 – Lyndon B. Johnson proclaims his "Great Society" during his State of the Union Address.
January 4 – Vinnie Jones born.
January 20 – Johnson is sworn in for his own full term as U.S. President.
January 30 – State funeral of Sir Winston Churchill takes place with the largest assembly of statesmen in the world until the 2005 funeral of Pope John Paul II.
February 7 - Chris Rock born.
February 20 - Ranger 8 crashes into the Moon, after a successful mission of photographing possible landing sites for the Apollo program astronauts.
February 21 – Malcolm X is assassinated in Manhattan.
March 2 – The Sound of Music premieres at the Rivoli Theater in New York City.
March 2 – Sarah Jessica Parker born.
March 23 – Gemini 3: NASA launches the United States' first 2-person crew (Gus Grissom, John Young) into Earth orbit.
April 4 – Robert Downey Jr. born.
April 5 – "My Fair Lady" wins 8 Academy Awards, including Best Picture.
April 9 - The Astrodome opens.
May 5 – The first draft card burnings take place at the University of California, Berkeley.
May 17 – Trent Reznor born.
June 7 – Mick Foley born.
July 25 – Bob Dylan "goes electric" at the Newport Folk Festival.
July 26 – Jeremy Piven born.
July 29 – The first 4,000 101st Airborne Division paratroopers arrive in Vietnam, landing at Cam Ranh Bay.
July 30 – Johnson signs the Social Security Act of 1965 into law, establishing Medicare and Medicaid.
August 11 – The Watts Riots begin in Los Angeles.
August 15 – The Beatles perform the first stadium concert in the history of rock, playing at New York's Shea Stadium.
August 28 – Shania Twain born.
August 30 - Dylan releases "Highway 61 Revisited," featuring "Like a Rolling Stone".
September 3 - Charlie Sheen born.
September 16 - China protests Indian provocations in its border region.
September 28 – Cuba's Fidel Castro announces that anyone who wants to can emigrate to the United States.
October 10 – Chris Penn born.
November 2 - Republican John Lindsay is elected mayor of New York City.
November 8 - "Days of our Lives" debuts on NBC.
November 27 - Tens of thousands of Vietnam War protesters picket the White House.
November 30 - Ben Stiller born.
Episode titles:
4.1 Public Relations
4.2 Christmas Comes But Once A Year
4.3 The Good News
4.4 The Rejected
4.5 The Chrysanthemum and the Sword
4.6 Waldorf Stories
4.7 The Suitcase
4.8 The Summer Man
4.9 The Beautiful Girls
4.10 Hands and Knees
10 p.m. Sunday. AMC.
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Readers Talkback
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Love those crazy Mad Men
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Aug. 15, 2010, 1:52 a.m. CST
1965 had the 3rd greatest movie of all time: For a Few Dollars M
by TakingScorpiosCalls
For a Few Dollars More, right behind Return of the Jedi and The Good the Bad the Ugly.
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It was pretty cool at first but now it's getting boring with everyone's nazi haircuts and 252 piece suits, i want to see them in plaid suits and fat ties and draper in slightly longer hair.
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Sure she's great looking, but she's a bore of a character. Please Weiner, just get rid of her.
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I have that album!
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nuff said<P>and geez, what is all this fucking ragging on betty...she is supposed to be a bore...and excuse me if i enjoy staring at january jones for an hour
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Isn't Anna's last name Draper? I mean why would the real Don Draper's widow have the same last name as the fake Don Draper?
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That could really come in handy when they drop some more subtle "whats going on in the world" discussion. Won't lie, last week I was little lost on the significance of the berkeley sit-ins. Had to look up what that was all about, so that list might give some perspective on things down the road. <p> Also? Really excited to hear Ken Cosgrove might be back. I was just talking to with my mother last night about how I was disappointed we hadn't seen any familiar faces from SC yet. And voila, here he is.
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Do you even watch this show?
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Betty is Don's wife/ex-wife and one of the most important characters in the show. Her story represents the huge changes in society for women during the 60's and has been fascinating to watch as she's gone from neurotic frightened housewife to a hard-hearted but wiser divorcee society lady. Oh yeah, she's also real easy on the eyes. I don't get the contingent of guys on here every week going after Betty with such fervor. There's something going on, some weird Rorschach test for how you feel about women. Good luck with that. Anyway, she has barely been in the first three episodes, last week not at all, so what the hell are you talking about?
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Can't fucking wait, guys. Can't fucking wait.
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Yes the idea of her character is important and wouldn't it be nice if she could represent various changes but the reality is that January Jones is the worst actress on the show and one of the worst actresses on any major show that I watch so regardless of what the potential for the Betty character might have been, the less of her the better Mad Men is.
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...Lyndon Johnson's "Daisy" ad.<p> The most seminal political ad of the 20th century, and a show about ad executives in the 1960s didn't even mention it.<p> Weird.
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Roger Sterling kept trying to suck my dick. What does that mean?
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Anna was married to the original Don Draper, so of course she'd have the same last name. Don switched identities with Anna Draper's husband in the war, right after he was killed in combat. Anna tracked down Don and confronted him about impersonating her husband. Once he explained everything she allowed him to continue with the lie.
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It's Mrs Draper, the real Don Draper's widow
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We're gonna' have to agree to disagree, buddy. I think January Jones has done an amazing job on the show, with a very full range of emotion and personality. I don't know what you've been watching. (Maybe her SNL hosting gig, which was pretty bad I have to say) She took her character from sympathetic victim to restless soul to bitter survivor. Give me an instance where her acting fell short of what the script and character required, because I can't think of one false moment.
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I agree wholeheartedly. january does a pretty fantastic job. If you went through what she has with Don from S1 to end of S3, her character arc and transformation is pretty realistic and believable. She goes from a half-vapid barbie doll to a woman scorned. I think she fits the character perfect, and I've often commented to people how impressed I am that she started out as an Abercrombie model, is as insanely beautiful as she is, and manages to play such a complicated and angry character so well. I also can't really think of a single false moment or complaint I could levy against her. I really think these people just see too much of their own mothers in her performance and its some weird, freudian thing going on behind their disapproval of her.
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is always fun to watch.
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Makes me want to smoke again, BAD!! Just started season 1 last night, 3 eps in, pretty good so far.. But after ep1 I was grabbing a glass of scotch and jonzing for a smoke!
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Jesus Christ, the show is better than ever, high viewership for a special cable network, and you STILL ignore it. Whatever, bros. At least 4chan has a dedicated discussion for it.
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Sometimes when i'm laying at night i cannot go to sleep over anxiety that they didn't show that ad on the show. It's a tough life bro.
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Romano's story line was fascinating to watch, as is that of Betty's parenting skills, or lack thereof, especially where it concerns Sally. I can see that girl moving out to San Fernando Valley in 10 years and becoming Ron Jeremy's fluffer with a serious taste for Bolivian marching powder. Damn, there's so much good TV on tonight I might just have all 3 Tivos going at full speed. Everyone does realize the David Hasselhoff roast premiers tonight, right? I understand Pamela Anderson gets her yellow hep C ass handed to her by Whitney Cummings. Best quote I've heard so far is from Lisa Lampanelli: Hoff's liver is so black and bloated from drinking it was offered the leading role in the movie 'Precious.' That's comic gold, Jerry!
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Romano's story line was fascinating to watch, as is that of Betty's parenting skills, or lack thereof, especially where it concerns Sally. I can see that girl moving out to San Fernando Valley in 10 years and becoming Ron Jeremy's fluffer with a serious taste for Bolivian marching powder. Damn, there's so much good TV on tonight I might just have all 3 Tivos going at full speed. Everyone does realize the David Hasselhoff roast premiers tonight, right? I understand Pamela Anderson gets her yellow hep C ass handed to her by Whitney Cummings. Best quote I've heard so far is from Lisa Lampanelli: Hoff's liver is so black and bloated from drinking it was offered the leading role in the movie 'Precious.' That's comic gold, Jerry!
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That this site doesn't fucking want a True Blood talkback. A bunch of fucking frat boys coming in to talk about the one show on tv they watch, thats actually made for teenage girls and the semi-retarded. Get the fuck outta here, "bro"
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and brought lbj tons of bad press<p> and the show started in december 64, after the election season<p>and forget bringing back sal...the show needs a stan freburgh type character
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Lol. THAT'S gold Jerry.
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He is gay. He was fired. Nobody cares about the gay (f)art director anymore. Let it die. Move on.
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It was ironic that Don turned his back on Sal for being in the same situation Don was in with the dept. store girl. The difference is that Don was actually guilty of hurting the company and Sal wasn't. If the same thing had happened to Peggy instead of Sal, with the same Lucky Strike guy, I wonder if it would have turned out differently.
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is older than Mick "Mankind" Foley and that is just plain old fucking hilarious. Other thoughts while looking at your time line, I am intrigued by what could be brought up with the assassination of Malcom X and the draft card burnings at UC Berkley.
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this is the best show on tv. trying to pitch this show is pretty tough because it's all in the execution. The Wire was great in the way it handled the every day minutia and made that the show's strength rather than its weekeness. True Blood is an entertaining show and does a good job with its cliffhanger endings but at the end of the day it's a show targeted at a female demographic that doesn't make people with a Y chromosome want to put a pistol in their mouth. I would also like to state, and this might be out of left field, that last week's "cut-to" of Don and Lane in the movie theatre was one of the funniest moments I've seen on tv or a movie this year.
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Re-watch season two. She's fantastic. Now, I will agree that January Jones' SNL was terrible, but let's blame the writing, and the fact that she may not be the greatest at comedy, especially LIVE comedy. That being said, maybe the only role she can do is Betty, and you may hate the character, but it's because she's acting it so well.
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Aug. 15, 2010, 4:49 p.m. CST
Anybody remember the character Barbara Katz on the show?
by Goon Bighead
someone please jog my memory on this character which I believe was from the first season.
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Was she Rachel's older sister? I think Rachel called her sister barbara once to tell her she met someone (speaking about Don) unless that was a different barbara? Almost positive she is Rachel Menken's sister, tho.
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Is weird, because now I'm reading on it, and it says Rachel married a guy named Tilden Katz. So it couldnt be Rachel's sister right, cause her name wouldn't be Katz too..? Now I'm a little confused myself.
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I apologize.
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That's the question. Anybody want put down some sheckles on the over/under on the trim Draper pulls this season?
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don hasnt been all that successful in the bed dept<p>basically because his status has changed and women now look at him with an eye toward marriage...i say he gets nothing tonite
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She was in 2 eps from 2007. The actress who plays her is another stunning redhead who now plays Lenore on hbo's HUNG. I wa astounded to find out she was on 2 eps of MAD MEN. it's drivin me crazy trying to remember her as Barbara Katz!
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I would love to see her come back now that Don's single. Keep her married and reverse the situation. Plus she's very easy to look at.
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Don isn't getting any trim unless he pays for it. It's kind of been a running theme here..
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Aug. 15, 2010, 9:17 p.m. CST
Gotta loved the support bras they wore back then!
by HollywoodHellraiser
Nice full support to kick those puppies nice n' high! Real attention-getters!
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Really you are allowed to have some fun about show chief there's no need to be hard on about it all the time.
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Without her dragging down an episode things really are much better paced. That's two weeks in a row. <br><br> Keep up the good work Weiner and keep Betty away from the show. She's served her purpose, but Peggy is the more interesting example of the change for women in the 60's.
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An old man yells about pears as Don makes his way down the hall?
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I personally think he going to kill her! Old people are fiesty!
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Because he doesn't believe he'll ever find someone to grow old with. But he probably also fears finding someone and turning into that.
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The simplest reading of the last scene: Don doesn’t want to be alone. Or old. But if he does have to get old, he doesn’t want to do it alone. He’d be looking for pears and there would be no one to lead him back to his apartment. Actually, the whole episode is full of good stuff: great season so far.
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Aug. 15, 2010, 11 p.m. CST
Loved Peggy peeping over Don wall and her boyfriend
by HollywoodHellraiser
talking about getting Trudy "so pregnant"!<p>Funny, and not far from the truth if I was a mind reader! LOL
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You don't so much as watch it as live it. I didn't get the hype until I watched the end of the first season and now I'm hooked. I loved the new ken/pete relationship. They aren't enemies anymore so now they have a lot in common. Loved the split between Pete's people and Peggy's people. Amazing show.
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Aug. 15, 2010, 11:08 p.m. CST
So is the lesbian Time magazine girl going to convert Peggy?
by ShabbyBlue
Seems like they might go that route in upcoming episodes. She seems REAL interested in Peggy. Hmmm...
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Is it just me or is that kind of new for a cable network to show actual nipple like that. I know that they were artsy and black and white, but still....do other shows on FX and AMC ever show nudity like that? I'm no prude, I actually thought it was great, I mean who cares....but has that started happening on tv and ive missed it? It just seemed like....yea they can say shit now and do a lot of risque stuff...but those were just two naked girls. Just wondering if anyone else thought it was....I dont know...ballsy? <p> And the final shot was great. Some sort of meditation on both the pros and cons of marriage and Don's exclusion from that. I think he wrestles with whether he views those two as a beautiful old couple with the virtue of never being alone, or if he views as some sad, pointless ritual these people are just stuck with. Very complicated emotions and looks flying around in those last 3 minutes. I literally said out loud when it ended "this show blows my mind" its just unbelievable how many shows struggle to create meaningful drama through spectacle and bombast, and this show wrecks my brain week in and week out with the subtlest of glances between characters. Drama through history. Through character. Who would have imagined such a thing.
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Herc, for me, the whole episode was about the relativity of age, "Maturity", and changing social mores. Kenny makes disparaging comments about Don's age, as does Allison (the secretary. not sure if that's her name), and the fact that he's a drunk. Peggy at the "happening" and her views on nudes in a magazine, and the vocalized personal awareness of the young ladies in the focus group juxtapose nicely with past social gatherings at the (former) Draper household, and Betty's quiet torments. In the final shot we see what "old" is from Don's viewpoint, and the aged wife's comment that "We'll discuss it inside" illustrates the past generation's view of what's appropriate conversation for public consumption. Or something like that...
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Thanks to the timeline posted on this page and Peggy mentioning Malcolm X's recent assasination. They are moving fast through 1965. Almost 2 months into the year between the last episode and this one!
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Did I hear that right in the promo? She want's Don DEAD? Yikes...
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He ends up cobbling together some huge deal.
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Unless he moves on to more succesful ventures
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Through these two we are going to see the major social schism of the 1960's. Peggy is entering the avaunt guard art world, pot smoking, flirting with lesbianism "downtown" NYC of the 60's. Not to mention that she is the vanguard of early feminism(without knowing it) by moving up steadily at work, accumulating more power and prestige along the way and making the big shots and former big shots become accountable to her. Outside of work She has had affairs on her terms and a kid out of wedlock, she is the new modern women. I have to say I liked backbone Peggy we saw tonight. Her pointed words to Don's secretary really shows she get's it.<p> Pete is going to be her polar opposite. Married, kids, corporate positions. Pete represents what was the majority of the rest of the world during 1960's. Pete is the perfect representation of the establishment that he really doesn't care to belong to but feels he must. That look at the end when Peggy was leaving with the hipsters spoke volumes about them and their new found potions in life.<p>It's Draper who is really a man out of his time, where does he belong? he has made his own place in the world that is not beholden to really anything except a dead guy in Korea. Both Cooper and Sterling are of there respective times and places, just like Pete and Peggy will be. It will be interesting to see if Draper has the flexibility still to make his own place in a fast changing world. I'm not sure he can do it myself.<p>Lastly Megan is a piece of ass. The Photog rug muncher has a good eye.
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...he belongs in politics. He'll end up working for Nixon, I just know it...
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What with the actor's name still being in the opening credits and all.
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Just when it looks like he's turning into a nice guy, he goes and pulls some slimeball move on his daady-in-law and the old Pete Campbell is back in business. Way to go Pete. It looks like Paggy is going to be heading down the same road as Jenny in Forrest Gump.
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Was it just because Alison implied Peggy used to be in love with Don just because she was his secretary? Or was it because she was remembering how much better she handled (and was still handling) her more painful situation with Pete? Ah, nuance.
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Damn lack of an edit feature. Damn lack of typing skills. That is all.
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First: Fucking hell! I was totally wrong about Allison! I thought for sure that her tryst with Don would fade into the ether and remain a background hum for the remainder of her (perhaps long) tenure on the show. Boy was I wrong. That's right up there with the "Don will NEVER bang Sally's teacher" prediction last season. I am clearly not a very good MAD MEN prognosticator.<P> 2. My read on the exchange in the hallway had less to do with Don's loneliness and had more to do with Don's exchange with the psychiatrist and the focus group. Like with the focus group, Don was an observer on an emotional conflict. But the conflict in the hallway was natural, unlike the contrived focus group, and the exploration/resolution of the conflict was private and behind closed doors. Just like Don had tried to explain.
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she wanted to rent her vagina to Don, but settled for Pete, and the new "inferior to peggy" girl gets him so easily. I wonder how often Peggy eavesdrops on Don. Also, loved Pete's reaction to the congratulations, thought it was for the acct, not the baby. Love his priorities. Sal will probably return when stonewall happens
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maybe the best since the first season
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why the fuck did we have to be warned before the show started
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david mamet's daughter....how cool is that
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Society convinces these little girls that they're supposed to grow up and get married and have kids. That's it. <p> He thinks he can change all that.
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GENIUS!
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there were touches in here that im sure the writers didnt script<p> the waiter getting the names wrong...peggy eavedropping...cooper hanging out in the lobby....the extended, "did you get the pears"...the overall pacing and timing in the dialogue
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Aug. 16, 2010, 6:01 a.m. CST
What was Allison's problem with Don's reference suggestion?
by Jardinier
I thought that was perfectly nice of him: "Write yourself the best recommendation ever, I'll sign it, because it's probably all true." Throwing stuff seems kind of an over-reaction. Did she think, "he doesn't even care enough about me to take five minutes to pen a recommendation?" Women...<br><br> You have to love Joan, though, for replacing her with the oldest, least desirable crone possible. The Allison situation definitely won't repeat itself with her...
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Another one of the subtle joys of this show is how good they make some of actresses look when put them into the period. Don's fling in California is another one that comes to mind.
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Peggy will try on Faye's ring, but let's be honest, she's never going to be happy with that bland boyfriend of hers (who's she lying to and telling she's a virgin). And then this artist guy Gabe pops up, and I love when he says he thinks he should kiss her, she's the one to lean in and go for it. But if her reaction to Pete's baby news didn't get me (with her banging her head on the desk), her look to him in the lobby brought tears to my eyes. Elisabeth Moss can do SO MUCH with a look, and does it so consistently on this show. There's a lot of Emmy worthiness to go around on this show, but I would put Moss ahead of the pack!
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The confrontation scenes were handled beautifully - from Pete and his father-in-law to Don and the secretary, a real mastery to this episode. The season highlight thus far....
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I think it was to make Don reevaluate growing old alone; He has been self-pitying and drinking himself into a stupor. Every other time he's in that hallway, a couples/caregiving scene emerges: The old people talking pears; Alison bringing Don his keys; Cute nurse emerging to help Don... And who told Don he'd be married in a year? <p>Everything in this ep was couplehood: not having it (and wanting it)(Alison), having it (Kenny), doubting it (Peggy's), moving through couplehood into family-hood (Pete). Don is moving backward, deleveraging from his family. <p>Don is just about to wrap up his year of grief for his defunct marriage and defunct agency. I think he is going to get his proactive mojo on real soon, and pickup his self-dependence. I think he will move, and we will once again see hard-at-work, cootch-grabbing Don F'ing Draper. I'm really looking forward to him throwing Betty and her worthless husband out on their ear. <p> And I love that we aren't seeing much Betty this season. We have seen characters that seem integral disappear. But that is frequently how life is: people come, people go, but life goes on. Even Don Draper's life.
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Is that it is another way for Don to say "I don't want to be bothered by you" and "I can't afford ANY time or interest in doing something nice for you." <p> There is a great scene in Billy Wilder's "The Apartment" where Fred MacMurray is done having his Christmas fling with Miss Kubilicke. She is just realizing he is NEVER going to return her affection. He mentions that he didn't have time to buy her a Christmas gift, so he just pulls cash out of his wallet and tells her to buy herself something nice. She stares at the money and realizes she is just his whore. <p> In matters of the heart, women prefer that a man expend effort and inconvenience himself, to any other form of currency/function. It is why when you get married, you can't ever just say "whatever you want baby" because she hears "I don't care baby". <p> On the plus side, a little inconvenience goes a long long way with most women. Not too much, because it makes you look weak. It must be reluctant effort.
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Why "pears"? Because it is a homonym for "pairs". The old coot could just as easily been asking for "bananas" or "oranges".
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Peggy's evesdropping scene = PURE GENIUS!!!!! With amazing shows like this, how can anybody enjoy the majority of the stuff on TV?
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why was the eavesdropping scene so brilliant? i mean, it was funny, but i didn't get much more out of it than a chuckle...<P>anyone else notice that they seem to be contractually obligated this season to have someone say the word "shit" twice per episode?
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Yeah, I get that that's what she's feeling, but I think it's unfair towards Don. She may even be right in her assessment that he's "not a good person," but not based on how he has treated her. He didn't rape her, he didn't (really) seduce her, he didn't whisper sweet promises in her ear to get her in bed: they had a consensual, drunk, ill-advised one-night stand after an office party. It was a mistake, Don realised it and "got over it" in typical Draper fashion: not talking about it. <br><br> He could have handled that better, but he wasn't being deliberately cruel to Allison. The christmas bonus wasn't a prostitution pay-off, it was a token of his appreciation for her hard work (which, as I think has already been mentioned, he had laid aside *before* the party). And him offering to sign anything she brought in without question is also a sign of confidence in her abilities. Had she said no, she'd prefer him to write a few words himself, he would doubtless have done so. <br><br> I'm not a Draper apologist, but with the whole Allison situation, I feel he really is being misunderstood (certainly by Allison herself and some viewers). From Don's point of view, the Apartment comparison isn't apt, because he never intended his secretary to be his plaything who needed to be strung along (in fact, as we know, he disapproves of such trysts). From the day after the party, he would prefer everything to be the way it was before; as far as Don is concerned, there really isn't a relationship beyond the professional. It's Allison who can't let go of that night and its implications. <br> I don't really think it's a woman thing, either (despite my exasperated sigh in the previous post). Would Joan have flipped out like that (or post-pregnancy Peggy, or Bobbie Barrett, or any number of strong, confident women on the show)?
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It was a very clever and life like way for Peggy to find out stuff about Don without him knowing. Very well written. Or as someone else mentioned, improved by Elizabeth Moss by suggestion of the Director.
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Cracked me up.
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After their night together, Don not only wanted to move on, he didn't even want to acknowledge it. Barely even showed any warm feelings toward her at all. He didn't say it was a mistake or anything. Didn't apologize in even a vague way, or suggest they should move on. Right to the end he treated it all like business, and didn't even seem like he cared she was upset. Damn, am I turning into a woman...?
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He's starting to get along with his father-in-law, then rakes him over the coals. The best part? "You son of a bitch," followed by a shrug. Classic.
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She was projecting all her dreams and fantasies onto Don BEFORE their hookup. When he actually made a pass at her, she knew he was drunk and she did resist, but her little "oh God" before she succumbed proved it was something she'd hoped would happen. She just didn't think about the aftermath realistically, which was evident in the Ponds focus group - all those girls actually thought looking pretty and being compliant was all that was needed to "land" a man and are devastated when that turns out not to be true. Contrast this to Peggy, who is independent and determinedly experiencing real sexual freedom (with all its attendant problems) or to Joan, who has wielded her sexuality for both [limited] power and to fulfill her life dreams [which are not exactly turning out as planned]. The women on this show fascinate me, including the scary Betty and smarter-than-we-think Trudy, who both have used their great beauty and grace to get what they want, again to somewhat limited results. Just another facet of what makes Mad Men the best series on American television.
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Yes, that showed that she was being unrealistic about it. But even so, Don was still acting like a jerk. One of his problems seems to be that he expects everyone else to be able to "just get over it" like he does.
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While on one level I think it'd be fun to see Peggy have some fun with her new friend, I kind of hope they don't go that route. In a show that seems to be showing us the unfair way women are stereotyped, I think it'd be big step backwards if they suddenly made their one strong business woman into a lesbian. I have faith that they won't, and that Peggy's just exploring "another world" again.<p>Her new friends seem to be that weird kind of group in that era that were sitting between the beatniks and the hippies. And I must admit I loved when the other guy acknowledged the artist was being a real prick with his attitude.
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They're auctioning off a walk-on role for next season on Ebay - it's up to 15k already. Check it out, just take out the space after Mad Men: http://cgi.ebay.com/Mad-Men -Walk-On-Role-Season-5-Los-Angeles-/180546263841?pt=Tickets_Experiences
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Allison received 100 dollars as a Christmas bonus, the day after they had sex. Then in Feb, Don said I'll sign what you write because "your performance" has been good. Allison had a moment where that could have meant "I was good at sucking your dick." That's when she throw the object on the desk at him. He rejected her, and he was insensitive.<p>Faye is interesting because both her an Don are both right. Knowing what the customer thinks can help, but Don has always been good at making people think they need something they have never considered.<p>The Peggy and Pete at lunchtime scene was great. She was with the future, Pete was with the past. And Pete will get Clearisil back because the bulk of the baby boom is going to hit puberty in the next 3 years, so sales will sky-rocket.-----later----m
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...and thank those taking part in this talkback on a weekly. My "Mad Men" experience isn't complete until I read all the reactions and predictions here. While I may not agree with everything shared here, I always learn a little something. Personally, I have nothing new to offer (Don Draper is emotionally dead; Pete Campbell is a douche; Joan has big titties, etc.), but I just wanted to say "thank you" to those that DO have something to say about my favorite TV show.
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I second that. Himbo is this TBs Allstar.
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I don't think they are going to have Peggy go down the lesbian route, I think they were showing how at ease she is in the nascent counter-culture of NYC. Peggy is going to be how we experience the growing hippie movement.<p>Mad Men was quite clever with Peggy in last night's episode in how they are showing her changing personality; her spying on Don, flipping the script on Allison, trying on Blond Nazi doctors wedding ring and her hanging with the early hippies show just what a state of flux and change she's in. Oh and then there is the whole baby angle and her sexuality. Peggy was a home run last night.<p>Does anybody that knows anything more about art then me(which is probably everybody) have any idea who Abe and the douchetard artist are supposed to be or represent?
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Was she the one in the bath with Darryle from The Office? If so she has nice cans.
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They both enjoy renting the vagina.
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in a season that hasn't been all that good so far. However, their attempt to show a slice of bohemian life fails since it is mostly 7 years too late. Most of what Peggy witnessed happened in 1958. By 1965, the precursors of the hippie movement were moving into the Village and the film that was shown was woefully out of date. By '65 psychedelia was becoming the fad on the East Coast. Weiner should probably talk to someone who was actually there instead of just showing what he thinks happened. At this rate, by the time we get to 1968, Reagan will be in office and the up and coming band Nirvana will be the featured band at the Sterling, Draper, Cooper, and Pryce Christmas party.
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You have no idea how good that makes me feel. I've felt ill-used at work all day, and that's the first praise I've gotten outside my family. <p> Remember Talkbackers: the smallest kindness can heal a crack in a saddened heart.
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Aug. 16, 2010, 5:38 p.m. CST
the shrug was brilliant. along with peggy popping her head
by therootstheroots
this show is brilliant. can't wait to rewatch it.
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Tara, the quite topless groupie Craig Robinson bangs in "Hot Tub Time Machine," and Megan were both played by the incredibly beautiful Jessica Paré.
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i'm wondering if peggy might show her countercultural leanings by trying to use the nude photos as art for the Ponds ads... i think that'd be cool. and i think don would surprise everybody by backing her on it.
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...when one considers that McCann proceeded to have incredible growth in the second half of the 1960s, and is still a strategic communications powerhouse.<p> Add that to the disdain Don has for research and I think it reinforces my oft-spoken prediction that the Sterling-Cooper boys are going to crash and burn because all the partners in the firm are so old-fashioned.<p> On other subjects:<p> - Peggy won't go gay. Her lesbian friend backed off immediately and set her sights elsewhere. She's not predatory. Plus, Peggy kissed the dude on the closet. Peggy is all about the cock.<p> - Whenever I see Alison Brie's name in the opening credits, my heart skips a beat.<p> - Fuck Don, how fucking hard is it for you to just say "I'm sorry." Fuckin' douche.<p> - Gee, it's the late 1960s with the baby boomers about to hit their teenage years, and you guys want Ponds instead of Clearasil?! Morons...
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...I thought that making the elderly secretary a bit of an idiot was a real dick move on the part of the writers. Why not give Don a good secretary that he DOESN'T want to fuck?
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They already showed slices of "bohemian life" in season one, this isn't the first time. Asking them to show it before season 1 would be a little silly.
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The half conversation with Lucky Strikes got a bigger laugh from me then Peggy's eavesdropping. "Oh my god there's a fire."
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have a look at POPISM: THE WARHOL 60's to learn that you are woefully amiss in your assessment of the downtown art scene, circa 1965. Mad Men got it so so right. psychedelia is on the way, naturally, but the NYC scene was besotted with the warhol factory at this point and for several years beyond. the way the guys were dressed in that loft scene, exaggerated leather = gerard malanga early 1965. "exploding plastic inevitable" is a year away.
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She is the character who has changed the most on the show. And I like how they show her not being just easily taken in and gullible when she sees these different people and different lifestyles. While in season one, she was afraid of her own shadow. Her friend (forgot her name) tries to kiss her and she just brushes it off and lets her know she likes men. Doesn't freak out. She doesn't like the movie, but acknowledges it's just probably not for her. It would've been more predictable to have her act like some dumb gullible kid.
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Interesting and well thought out responses to a great and innovative show. Look forward to reading your comments every week. Says much to the character of the show and it's audience. Thanks.
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I agree. If they wanted to be honest, the tough old lady would probably be a better secretary. And in proper Mad Men fashion, they could still mock her for being old, despite her competence.
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Totally got Mrs. Landingham vibes from her.
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I've learned something new today so it isn't a completer waste. Is the new place Cosgrove works for also real?
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but I felt like this episode had a lot to do with showcasing the women of the era. They showed Peggy and the lesbian in some take charge moments. Kind of shifting to the time where the women had a more "visible" role in society and at home. The frail, old man at the end was at the mercy of his wife. He kept asking about the peaches and she decided to ignore him until she wanted to answer him. He was completely lost.
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i was thinking the same thing...its the one thing the writers got wrong<p>part of the ad game is to do demographic studies...and the agency would have known (at least by the change in tv) that the boomer gen was about to explode<p>we are talking teens with money to burn...who all care about that unsightly zit<p>pretty shocked that they wouldnt have pete trying to push that<p>wonder if it is based on reality
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pare' has been around for a decade....why is she still only doing indies and tv? she is stunning
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Although I do agree it would have been fun to not have the old secretary being such a stereotype. That said, the 50's and early 60's were one big stereotype anyway so it's kinda fitting...
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...or at least the rise of youth culture and future vs the old guard. The final scene encapsulated it with the Peggy and the proto-hippies in the hall as she looks at Pete standing around with the old white men.
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She's an emotionally stunted, pampered princess trophy wife and a terrible mother. As Don pointed out, she acts like a child most of the time. She's so beneath him, it's not funny. Is it any wonder he cheated on her every chance he got, often with women who were so much better than she is? It's kind of sad that he's been reduced to sleeping with hookers. So, if you can't stand Betty, if you feel like throwing something at the TV every time she's on screen, then Miss Jones is playing the part to perfection, and kudos to her for it.
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"You can't predict how someone's GOING to behave based on how they HAVE behaved."
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of herself (not of Betty) by the bad SNL performance and the whole 'walk of shame' thing. I've caught myself wondering if perhaps we'd given her too much credit for creating the Betty persona, if maybe she is simply a vapid pretty face surrounded by an otherwise brilliant cast and production company. Given the fact she seems to generate plenty of comment in this talk back, despite the fact she hardly had any screen time this season, I may have misjudged her. I have a feeling they're saving Betty's main story arc for the latter part of the season. Let's see where she takes us this time next month. I'm still fascinated by her relationship with Sally...whom I still believe will end up being one twisted little sick fuck of a teenager..
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I don't know about nipple but Blade: The Series on Spike showed bare female ass.
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This show is especially great so far this season. I'm not a rabid Betty hater like some but I have to admit I have not missed her the last couple episodes. She's great eye-candy but JJ brings very little depth to the character for me. Perhaps it's because Betty has no depth, but I think she's just a bad actress. <p> P&P episodes are always my faves and this didn't disappoint. Pete is such a scumbag in so many ways, and yet out of all the guys on the show he's probably the most progressive in terms of his attitudes on sex and race, at least in terms of business. That's probably while he'll be running the place soon. Or jumping out of the window. Who knows?
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In the 1990's Broadcast and Basic-cable TV took huge strides. NYPD Blue of course, but ER in it's first or second season showed bare butts, Chicago Hope did a topless scene involving reconstruction surgery on a young woman how had breast cancer. They showed the doctor examining her implants in recovery. And David Kelly's "Civil Wars" had Mariel Hemmingway posing for a nude on screen.<p>Also on ER with Dr. Green was dying of cancer he fell out of bed and yelled "Shit!" Chicago Hope had one doctor say "Shit Happens."<p>After Bush took office in 2001, broadcast backed off in fear of fines from the FCC, since many of the biggest backers of Bush's campaign were the various social conservative groups. Basic Cable has picked up the slack from the 1990's, and pay cable is currently doing stuff that would get an NC-17 if it had to rated by the MPAA.-----later-----m
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I haven't seen much of her outside of Mad Men, and I missed the SNL appearance. She could very well be a vapid airhead, in which case, she's still perfect for the role of Betty.
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That's just it though. Is Betty supposed to come off as vapid, or JJ just bringing no nuances to the role? It's really difficult to ascertain where the line is. I almost think Weiner has written her out somewhat because he starting to realize she doesn't have the chops to make Betty anything more than a petulant child.
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That's the point of her character. She has severe "Daddy Issues." The new mother-in-law after Thanksgiving dinner said she is a "silly woman." I had a co-workerwho was born in the 1950's whose parents were Don and Betty. His father was a cheater, his mom became a drunk. They were the richest family on their block but the poorest family at the country club. Betty hates living in North Westchester County, because by god it's practically Poughkeepsie, and feels she should be living in South Westchester County, or better still Connecticut!-----later-----m
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I'm pretty sure every agency they've mentioned on the show (with the exception of Sterling-Cooper of course) is a real-world agency that ended up becoming HUGE:<p> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCann_Erickson
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...she also has a tendency to be an insensitive jerk at times. Like, she doth protest too much and is having a hard time reconciling being successful and also being feminine.<p> To often, she gets angry at other people for the way they act and the assumptions they make, when the other people don't mean to be offensive. She's not always particularly tolerant of people who simply don't know any better.<p> The way she snapped at poor crying Alison in the office was a good example. Alison wasn't accusing Peggy of sleeping with Don, but at the same time why would it be unreasonable that Alison might assume the two of them might have something in common since they were both Don's secretary at one point?<p> On the other hand, was Peggy pissed off because she was insulted by the suggestion that she could possibly have something in common with Alison (is Peggy a snob?)? Or was Peggy pissed off because Alison actually had a point? Maybe Peggy wonders if the only reason she never fucked Don was because Don didn't think she was hot enough?<p> The other example was when she insulted Freddy by calling him "old fashioned". Granted, he was being a pig-headed, condescending douche at the time, but she could have tried to fight back on a professional level by arguing with him over the merits of the argument rather than insulting him personally.<p> I'm not criticising the writers. I'm fascinated by Peggy's character.<p> But sometimes I really DO NOT like her very much.<p> Also, I don't think she's very good at pitching her ideas. She seems to just throw shit at the wall to see what sticks, rather than building a comprehensive pitch to justify her ideas.
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These moments are not new to the show.<p> Remember the German psychiatrist they used to have on staff, how Don shot down her ideas, and how Pete was the only one to realize that she was making really good sense?<p> Also there was Pete's recognition of African-Americans' increasing purchasing-power.<p> I genuinely believe all these moments are written into the show to tell the audience that Sterling-Cooper (Draper and Pryce) is an agency in decline, and in the process of being completely bypassed by the new thinking at agencies like McCann, BBDO, and maybe foremost, Doyle Dane Bernbach (DDB).<p> (Historical error on the show: At the time it was BBDO that had the Pepsi account, not McCann. The "Pepsi Generation" campaign was launched in 1964.)
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Aug. 17, 2010, 5:05 p.m. CST
HoboCode: I think Pete is less of a scumbag each season.
by Royston Lodge
As far as we know, he hasn't cheated on Trudy since they were married. He seems genuinely delighted that he's going to be a father. The way he reacted during the Kennedy Assassination seemed to indicate some basic decency.<p> I even thought the way he managed his father-in-law was actually very pragmatic. He saw that there's actually more opportunity for growth with his father-in-law's company than with Ponds. If Pete believes that SCDP is truly the better agency, then from his point-of-view it was not in his father-in-law's best interest to take his business to another agency. IF the only way to keep Clearasil was to twist the guy's arms to give SCDP all the company's business, and IF the manoeuvre was actually in both their companies' best-interest, then MAYBE it's worth risking a little bad blood between them.<p> Pete's reaction when the father-in-law called him a sunovabitch may have been a little douchey, but the alternative was to either beg for the man's business or to beg for forgiveness, neither of which would serve to inspire the man when it come's to Pete's abilities as a businessman.<p> I can imagine that when the father-in-law got home, had a few shots of Canadian Club, and contemplated what had just happened, he could recognize the wisdom of Pete's manoeuvre.<p> Or, another way of looking at it, contrast Pete's actions to what Don did when he was ordered to cut Mohawk Airlines free. Don sheepishly told the Mohawk president that he was sorry, that it wasn't his decision, can we still be friends, etc, etc, wank, wank, wank. He came off looking like an asshole AND terribly weak at the same time, AND the agency didn't even benefit from the manoeuvre since American Airlines chose a different agency in the end.<p> By contrast, Pete's manoeuvre may make him look like a jerk, but it also shows him as shrewd, strong, and even loyal! In the long-run, would it have been better for him to simply cut his father-in-law loose? If he'd done that, NOBODY would have won! The father-in-law would have lost SCDP's expertise, Pete would have lost an important account, and the father-in-law would have thought Pete was a jerk AND a weak-willed little weasel.<p> It seems to me that Pete made the very best of a bad situation.
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I think you might have forgotten about Pete basically raping his neighbor's German au pair last season after he blackmailed her with the dress.
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For the info. I never bothered to check out any names of the other agencies I figured they were all fake. That goes to show I don't know jack about anything.
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Finally saw it tonite on Surfthechannel.<P> Those glass partitions do make it easy to spy on your neighbor!
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but I would like to see a little exploration from her. The chick from Life is cute. Would be a nice FU to Pete and society's ring finger expectations as well.
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Would have been great too.
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Aug. 18, 2010, 1:03 p.m. CST
HoboCode: A German au pair doesn't count as a "person".
by Royston Lodge
Heyooooooo!<p> I kid! I kid!
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I wonder when one of the women in the office are going to read "the Feminine Mystique". I'm hoping it will be Joan ;-)
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ooooh lets have them talk 2 minutes about it. fuck it.
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I didn't get why Peggy's lesbian friend wanted to meet her at her office instead of the lobby at the end.. her friends wanted to check out the receptionist? why? they'd never seen a secretary before? is she like insanely hot for her time? I loved how the lesbian acted like a man towards her the first time tho, saying something like "thank you sweetheart" when she gets Peggy for her.
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for Don to get so drunk and wake up next to the old secretary (she looks like she's into rough stuff too) He did down a whole bottle and completely forgot about it -- a sure sign of alcoholism
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Sure, it COULD happen, but I really don't see things going down that road. At all. Now the alcoholism on the other hand...
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