Herc, Harry, I'm a long time reader of the site and an editor at Lostpedia.com. I've seen the 12 minutes of new LOST footage appearing on the s6 DVD. Below are my notes from watching the video. It does a good job of answering nearly all unanswered question - certainly all the major ones. **SPOILER WARNING** NOTES AND COMMENTS: * denotes answers to outstanding mysteries. "I'm from the home office." "There's a new man in charge." Ben's here to tie up a few lose ends. (He's talking to you!) Is Ben wearing a Hawaiian shirt under his coat? :) The warehouse workers are named Glenn and Hector according to the credits. *The palettes were loaded from Guam and sent to various coordinates sent by the teletype. *Teletypes comes automatically from the The Lampost in LA, which tracks the Island's movements. "Wait, you can't just walk out of here! We deserve answers!" Sounds like he just finished watching the finale. Station 1 is The Hydra, used for animal testing. "I will have to resort to using an alias." LOL The blonde with clipboard looks a lot like Libby...? DHARMA had a mouse maze similar to Daniel's in Cambridge. A diver walks by, probably for the shark tank (presumed, seen in video game) or The Looking Glass. *The Hurley Bird was a subject of genetic engineering and a hybrid of some type. *Polar bears were for electromagnetic study. Pierre Chang wasn't the only DHARMA member to loose an arm. "I repeat: The bears are not your friends." LOL *The collar Charlotte found in Tunisia on the polar bear skeleton was a tracking device. *Electromagnetic effects of The Orchid have "extremely harmful effect on early term gestation". *Room 23 is used for interrogation and memory wiping. DHARMA believes the Hostiles are the Island's indigenous population. DHARMA thinks Jacob is the Hostile's deity. *Room 23 drugs + video creates amnesia in subject to erase memory of being interrogated. Room 23 brainwashing is critical, otherwise they'll learn that DHARMA was violating their truce. "I think we are going to need to see that again." Locke said this immediately after watching The Swan orientation video in The Orientation, ep 2x3. *Walt is in Santa Rosa under the alias Keith Johnson, the son of Kevin Johnson (aka Micheal's alias on the freighter). Walt is playing Connect 4, like Hurley in eps 1x18 and 4x01. Connect 4 has 42 spots (6x7). (The Numbers) Chalkboard drawing of the Island behind Ben. "Because you're special." "We need you." "You have work to do." Heard that before. Walt has to help his dead father, presumably to escape being a Whisper trapped on the Island, so he can move onto the afterlife. Ben shares a granola bar, similar to Ben and Hurley sharing a candy bar outside Jacob's cabin. Ben's driving the DHARMA van! LOL "I'd like to talk to you about a job." This one doesn't come with a 401k, but you get a lighthouse and a donkey wheel. Ben drove away down the wrong side of the road? If you use this, call me DharmaTel. Namaste.
Aug. 6, 2010, 6:13 p.m. CST
Aug. 6, 2010, 6:15 p.m. CST
by newkie brown
...with the customary trepidation and dread.
Aug. 6, 2010, 6:17 p.m. CST
by newkie brown
You know, the big fucking Egyptian statue. The one that stands two hundred feet tall and gets knocked over by a wooden boat. Does it tell you why that was there?
Aug. 6, 2010, 6:18 p.m. CST
by slave to the one
Aug. 6, 2010, 6:19 p.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
Why Jacob didn't explain shit to anyone... ever! Or WHAT the island was. Or WHY.<p>Nonetheless, sounds fun. Hopefully, somebody'll upload it somewhere. No way am I paying for this, but I'd definitely like to take a gander.
Aug. 6, 2010, 6:19 p.m. CST
by slave to the one
Why the fuck did the finale suck so hard!
Aug. 6, 2010, 6:20 p.m. CST
It leaked online today.<p>http://is.gd/e6ECJ
Aug. 6, 2010, 6:23 p.m. CST
The entire thing is available online. Why are we acting like this is some super awesome spy report? Ooooh...I wonder how DharmaTel saw this! Probably watched it on VideoGum a few hours ago like a million other people. haha
Aug. 6, 2010, 6:30 p.m. CST
by Amazing Maurice
Stick your DVD boxset up your ass.<P>We'll all download a rip of these extra 12 minutes and STILL tear your show 108 new arseholes.
Aug. 6, 2010, 6:36 p.m. CST
they are stuck in '95...this whole website is a throwback..I mean this in the most insulting way. I love how harry has a little animation of himself with movies from 30 years ago, hardly ever anything new. Any articles I actually read here are rarely written by him and the ones that are, just make my eyes roll. everyone has seen this 12 minute extra, you guys just need to post it up.
Aug. 6, 2010, 6:55 p.m. CST
Just saved a bunch of money and I didn't have to change my auto insurance!
Aug. 6, 2010, 6:57 p.m. CST
All it took was 15 minutes to explain 6 seasons of mysteries! WHY COULDN'T THEY JUST PUT THAT AS AN EPILOGUE AFTER THE JACK HEAVEN STUFF!?!?!?<br /> <br /> THAT WAS PERFECT! Finally SOME CLOSURE!!!
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:02 p.m. CST
I liked it. Thought it was funny and cute. Answered more questions than the finale did.
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:04 p.m. CST
I know right!? Get with the times Aintitcool.com! This site needs a total redesign. Would it kill them to at least put tags on these post?
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:04 p.m. CST
We got answers about the food drops and that damn Hurley Bird.<p>WWWWAAAAAAALLLLLTTTT goes back to the island because he's "special".
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:26 p.m. CST
...that answered nothing anyone with an I.Q. over 50 hadn't already figured out anyway. (Was that 70's Sawyer as one of the security guards in Room 23? Looked more like Josh Holloway's stand-in or something. Lame) Then it's on to the nuthouse to spring Walt so Michael can "move on". Lamer. And of course, obviously when Hurley dies, Walt gets the Jacob job. Meh. Glad I wasted 12 minutes free of charge, thanks Bramton! Oh, and the requisite "Fuck You!" to Cuse and Lindeloff, of course.
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:27 p.m. CST
but didn't i read that there was a scene with a thinner Hurley and Ben walking toward a ice city or something saying "the new candidates are on their way"?? <br>anyone else aware of that or did i dream it??
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:30 p.m. CST
...How the fuck'd they get the Dharma Van all the way from the island to fake Hawaii-as-L.A.-area mental hospital?
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:33 p.m. CST
Why would Dharma assume that the locals who spoke mostly with American accents, including Richard who sounded like he came from suburbia U.S., are some kind of indigenous people? <p> This epilogue is the definition of too little too late.
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:37 p.m. CST
...Well, wasn't the Others' native language Latin? (For some idiotic non-reason. Since they're descendants from people who came from everywhere, they should speak in some kind of whacked out patois... whatever)
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:37 p.m. CST
Kinda sad really.
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:38 p.m. CST
... I really hate Lost, now.
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:39 p.m. CST
How did the food get to the island? I mean, the island must exist in another dimension which means that knowing the coordinates of the island isn't enough to make the drops. So how did the food get there? My understanding is that Jacob has to bring people to the island, so that even if they try to get there, they can't. Let's face it, the show doesn't hold up very well in hindsight. Stay thirsty my friends...
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:41 p.m. CST
if only for the food drop business, and Walt. Seems like it was intentionally left out at the eleventh hour, to have some special footage for the DVD, as DAYS before the finale aired, Cuse/Lindelof still though this was going in.
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:49 p.m. CST
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:52 p.m. CST
That is all.
Aug. 6, 2010, 7:58 p.m. CST
apologizing and begging for forgiveness for writing such a piece of shit that was Lost
Aug. 6, 2010, 8:02 p.m. CST
would be more entertaining.
Aug. 6, 2010, 8:08 p.m. CST
"All the major unanswered questions"? ehh.. not so much. I frankly can't believe how much of it was spent on the polar bears, one of the elements I actually thought was already explained to a satisfactory level in the actual show. The biggest thing I was hoping for more information on was the cabin.
Aug. 6, 2010, 8:11 p.m. CST
by Amazing Maurice
Laughed my fucking ass off! There isn't enough CG in the world to pull that off!
Aug. 6, 2010, 8:12 p.m. CST
Ben says the instructions coming thru the printer were automated for a long time from the Lamp Post. Well we know that station had the pendulum that was constantly coming up with the fresh coordinates for where the always moving island was. I think maybe that was somehow connected to the food warehouse in Guam, so the plane carrying the pallets always knew exactly which flight path to take to ensure it would drop onto the island.
Aug. 6, 2010, 8:15 p.m. CST
so tired of the whiners. "How did you spend your Friday night?" " I was AICN whining about Lost again."
Aug. 6, 2010, 8:17 p.m. CST
Don't let the haters and idiots fool you. Poll after poll had ppl enjoying with most loving the finale. Sure some were confused (idiots) but even them came around from later polls. Can't wait until the next "great" show!
Aug. 6, 2010, 8:18 p.m. CST
by Amazing Maurice
You were on AICN READING about people whining about Lost again.<P>Grab a beer and help yourself to the fish biscuits.
Aug. 6, 2010, 8:23 p.m. CST
i knew i'd read it somewhere! Movieline states that according to an Ain’t It Cool commenter named The Greatest the scene “is CGI heavy and features a thinner but unaged Hurley and Ben walking toward a futuristic snowbound city; Hurley tells Ben that the first of the new candidates is ahead.” <br>bullshit then eh?
Aug. 6, 2010, 8:25 p.m. CST
would've been better than what we did get though
Aug. 6, 2010, 8:26 p.m. CST
that's what some people wanted for the end. Ticking down a checklist of answers.
Aug. 6, 2010, 8:39 p.m. CST
by Amazing Maurice
A thinner Hurley would have been hilarious for sure. But anything involving CG and futuristic snowbound cities would have meant TIME and MONEY.<P>This 'epilogue' was made on shoe-string, probably filimed in about two days.<P>I'd have really like to have seen some scenes on Hurley and Ben on the Island - but again, that would have meant going back on location and more time and money.<P>They really should have just had Lindelof and Cuse reading out angey fan tweets for 12 fucking minutes.
Aug. 6, 2010, 8:45 p.m. CST
I agree. Everything in the food drop/training video scene had already been explained ENOUGH to bring us to a conclusion - sometimes even going too far and spelling it out for the knuckle-draggers with no imagination. Polar bears: they were brought there by Dharma (which I felt was lame - I liked it better when we thought it was just because the island was ancient and moves in space/time - which it does). The experiment on the Polar Bears: I was happy when the bear skeleton was found with the Dahrma collar in the dessert. Telling us they were here for "electromagnetic experimentation" is redundant - or contradictory if you remember Chang calling the bear experiments on Hydra island "stupid" in the 70's before the time machine was built. Room 23 needed no explanation. I assumed it was for... psychological experiments, like in Clockwork Orange, end of story. Hurley Bird? That was a weird mystery - I eventually assumed it was lumped in with the horse and Yemi and all the other things that were supposedly MIB. The bird reference here is short and quick and has no impact past a joke. The food drops: Fairaday's rocket experiment & the floating body of the freighter Dr. suggested that things approaching the island the "wrong way" would arrive on the island at a different time than expected. We filled in the blanks - only, no. The Dharma food got there... because it was still being dropped! Where's the fun in spelling that out? Chang using aliases? We figured he was doing that to remain anonymous in some capacity - the secret nature of the experiments. Why spell it out? The 1070's episodes were all too casual - it should hve been bug-fuck crazy. Bears eating hands? We saw Chang injure his hand at the end of season 5. So... that wasn't how he lost it? The Walt scene, however, was perfect. In a statement I made in another thread BEFORE AICN reported on this, it moved the characters forward a bit, gave us some new info, but left the air of mystery intact. They didn't say: "Walt, your dad is stuck on the island as a whisper ghost and he needs to move on to the afterlife and Hurley is magic now and you'll be magic when it's time to pass the torch on, and Vincent is on the island still!" They kept the info in that scene to only what we needed to know, a satisfying clip leaving us wanting to see more.
Aug. 6, 2010, 8:55 p.m. CST
... if some of this shit was actually covered during season 6? You know, somewhere among all the "let's walk over there, let's sit down here, let's row over there, let's row back over here, let's sit again while we wait for nothing to happen" season?<br><br>For me this is far too little, far too late.
Aug. 6, 2010, 9:10 p.m. CST
It's actually on videogum.com.
Aug. 6, 2010, 9:12 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...mystery. <p> I remember when I was in high school, about a thousand years ago, I took my girlfriend into my sister's room. She was gone to college but she had the secluded bedroom so I knew we wouldn't be bothered. We got naked, played around a bit and lit one up. I dropped the joint and it went under the bed, so, freaking out, I stuck my hand under the bed and flicked the lighter so I could get the joint before it burned the carpet. <p> Set the tacking on the bed on fire. Managed to flip the bed onto its side and beat out the flames right about the same time my father burst into the room. <p> That's pretty much what Lost is to me now. The promise of a wonderful time ending with your foot blistered from stepping on a lit joint and busted for having brought a girl home to have unprotected sex. <p> Not a big deal, really, and kind of funny in retrospect, but a disappointment all the same.
Aug. 6, 2010, 9:14 p.m. CST
so what exactly are Walt's special powers?...who was shooting at the outrigger during their time jump?...the sequel is a good job but they could have done better
Aug. 6, 2010, 9:18 p.m. CST
I did like the Walt bit... that's the only thing that actually mattered. WAY too much time spent on the orientation vid.
Aug. 6, 2010, 9:19 p.m. CST
by Logo Lou
This should have been in the finale or the last season somewhere... not a DVD extra. FUCK YOU Lost.
Aug. 6, 2010, 9:27 p.m. CST
It could have been in the finale if they cut out some of the pointless Jack and his son scenes.
Aug. 6, 2010, 9:47 p.m. CST
I loved it, so many answers.
Aug. 6, 2010, 9:48 p.m. CST
...Jesus H. Ka-rysler, dude. And I thought I had epically rotten luck... "And then the lighter exploded a tank of propane my sister had inexplicably left under the bed and it shot off, picking up my girlfriend and my dad along with it and they both rocketed into the stratosphere, my girlfriend holding on to the propane tank for dear life and my dad with his face accidentally but firmly planted between my girlfriend's legs, buried in her "lady area", and then they crashed into a passing helicopter causing it to crash into a tanker truck which exploded and slung them both down onto a passing motorcade carrying First Lady Nancy Reagan to the airport and they crashed through the roof of her limo and my dad's head bounced out of my girlfriend's crotch and into Nancy's and then...
Aug. 6, 2010, 9:51 p.m. CST
I knew Lost was BACK!!
Aug. 6, 2010, 9:54 p.m. CST
...unprotected sex is the best kind? Damn condoms, no matter the advances in latex technology making them ever thinner and stronger, it'll still feel lame until the day arrives when they invent "personal dick force fields".
Aug. 6, 2010, 9:56 p.m. CST
i quite enjoyed that. i really needed a LOST fix and to also get a Ben Linus one has made it even better. He was always my fave character. *sigh* i miss lost.
Aug. 6, 2010, 10:08 p.m. CST
Long time no type!
Aug. 6, 2010, 10:11 p.m. CST
I'm amused by idiots who take the time to click on an and subsequently complain about something they claim not to care about. The joke's on you.
Aug. 6, 2010, 10:37 p.m. CST
this is some dumb shit. fuck lost. fuck them up their stupid asses.
Aug. 6, 2010, 10:40 p.m. CST
""Wait, you can't just walk out of here! We deserve answers!" Sounds like he just finished watching the finale." Yes, that was a jab at YOU, the perpetually unsatisfied Lost viewer. They're making fun of you, you don't get to make fun of them back.
Aug. 6, 2010, 11:34 p.m. CST
"Hey, Losties! We know how much you love it when we actually address the numerous unresolved plot points we dropped across six seasons, so here's a bunch of slo-mo hugging and sad ending music to overemphasize our idea that after all the Oceanic Flight 815 survivors die they end up in the same point in Limbo/Purgatory so they all can go to Heaven together in a nice, tidy group. But hey, for those two or three of you that may find that a truly unsatisfying conclusion, here's twelve more minutes of story that actually addresses a few unanswered plot points that you'll only be able to see if you buy the Blu-Ray set. Sure hope this doesn't leak out to the Internets..."
Aug. 6, 2010, 11:43 p.m. CST
Of all the times where we actually needed character moments, ones that actually advanced the plot while answering questions, this was that moment. This thing should have been at LEAST an entire episode long. Are you telling me that since it was "present" day, it took 3 YEARS for them to get to Guam where the Dharma drops were being planned? <p> Are you telling me that it took 3 YEARS for them to get Walt back? </p> <p> But again that was the best part! Where the actual characters got to do something that advanced the plot and answered questions! As fun as this was, it demonstrated everything that was wrong with Lost Season 6: Not enough character moments that actually MATTERED. The afterlife stuff didn't affect anyone (other than Jack, I guess). It was a giant waste of time because it wasn't REAL. </p>
Aug. 6, 2010, 11:44 p.m. CST
has a really good article by Jeff Jensen about the DVD set and an interview with Darlton.
Aug. 6, 2010, 11:48 p.m. CST
closing the different stations. But why? Why would they close the one that actually provided them with a food source? Why would they only give them what looked like maybe a $10,000 settlement package? What other stuff did they have to do off of the island. What the hell did they do ON THE ISLAND. Just sort of hung out with each other for the rest of their lives? With the surviving others/hostiles? <p> I understand that I just sound like a frustrated ass, and that anything they answer will lead to more questions, but I think if they've proven anything with this 12-min clip is that they CAN answer questions if they want, they just don't bother to try. My biggest frustration is that I wanted to see more time with the characters that mattered, not some bullshit purgatory limbo moving on to heaven stuff. </p>
Aug. 6, 2010, 11:50 p.m. CST
Here you go Walt, enjoy the island. Oh, by the way, I cut off your food supply right before we picked you up, so you better REALLY like coconuts!
Aug. 6, 2010, 11:53 p.m. CST
...about two grand. Don't spend it all in one place. And don't go to Bangcock, where you will spend it in about a week and a half.<P> Namaste'
Aug. 6, 2010, 11:54 p.m. CST
love ben linus... <p> happy they made this, sad there's no more.
Aug. 6, 2010, 11:57 p.m. CST
more humorous and rewarding than this mini-sode.
Aug. 6, 2010, 11:59 p.m. CST
Lost complainers just make my head spin. Hey Lost complainers, you make the show more confusing than it needs to be.
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:03 a.m. CST
It was made as a fun extra for fans of the show, the kinda people who were going to buy the Blu-ray/DVD anyway. Loved the epilogue, and I see no way how it could possibly fit into the finale without making the final act of the entire show stilted and uneven, so I'm glad it was presented in this fashion. I hardly think this covers the biggest mysteries of the show (Jacob's cabin remains a complete mystery to me in many ways), but it does cover some stuff and definitively answers some cool stuff. What I loved most was seeing Walt's story wrapped up as I felt this was a major loose end that needed tying. It's too bad that to include it in the finale would mean messing with the end of the show which just wouldn't have worked.
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:05 a.m. CST
You have to at least admit, that as nice as it was to see them have a happier ending in limbo and then passing on to whatever happens next, it was all a huge waste of time. It advanced nothing, it was filler intended to stretch out their lack of season 6 plot. <p> Again, I'll say that emotionally, it hit all the right beats. I will give them that. But plot wise, it was a farce, and even character-wise, it did very little for their stories. </p>
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:07 a.m. CST
I think all that after-life stuff of season 6 should have been filmed, edited, and then put in a can and saved for like five or ten years. <P> Until the nostalgia factor kicked in. Then relased as like a week-long mini-series. At THAT point everyone would have been happy to have all the little reunions and stuff. And the group hug into heaven would have been a nice bow on top.<P> And in its place on the island we would have had more war, more supernatural mind-blowing shit, Daniel popping in from the future in a Delorean, a polar bear attack on Kate and Jin (who were naked together, and deserved it), and some flaming-arrow shooting Egyptians.<P> And Locke coming back from the dead and going into straight out battle with his evil twin.
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:08 a.m. CST
The song's catchy. Megan Fox and Rihanna are also in it. Apparently there may be a Lost reference but I didn't catch it. That may have just been an EW joke.
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:08 a.m. CST
I liked that Ben implied Walt needed to help his father escape limbo. Michael doesn't deserve that, and I'm glad that Ben feels he should be freed too. Maybe Walt and Michael will get to have that happy ending they deserve after all!
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:09 a.m. CST
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:11 a.m. CST
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:14 a.m. CST
If you think this could go in the finale and still have the whole thing flow well, I'll think you're crazy.
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:21 a.m. CST
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:23 a.m. CST
I watched it 3 times so far and was grinning ear to ear during the warehouse/video parts and really loved that Walts gets to go save his Dad. Its deffinatly more for those that already loved it all rether then to appease the Haters.
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:28 a.m. CST
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:28 a.m. CST
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:45 a.m. CST
yet they STILL bitch...
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:57 a.m. CST
It's not like I spent any money on it anyway, unless you add up the hours watching it.
Aug. 7, 2010, 1:08 a.m. CST
...you have a connection to the island and have the potential to be the protector of the light. That's why the MiB couldn't leave. Walt was special. Locke was special. Hurley was special. Odds are, Miles was special. Any others? <p> Of course, something still has to be said for free will or, if you leave the island, will your life suck so much that you go crazy and try hard to get back? If so, why couldn't the "mother" just let him leave and learn that?
Aug. 7, 2010, 1:30 a.m. CST
so if Hurley shuts down all the Dharma stations, including the food drops, how will they get their food on the island?...they gonna hunt?...time travel to bring food back to the island?
Aug. 7, 2010, 1:54 a.m. CST
Its part of his diet plan. No more DHARMA ranch dressing. Either that, or he's gonna send Ben out for groceries.
Aug. 7, 2010, 2:03 a.m. CST
Ben says the plant never sent the food drops because the lamppost station was shut down. He also said that the island moves around in time and it would be impossible to get a food drop from the mainland. He sent the two workers home because they had been there 20 or so years. Maybe he was going to hire new workers?
Aug. 7, 2010, 2:29 a.m. CST
the island or their special-ness are what allowed them to create a shared reality/purgatory. Leaving that loose end constantly drags all of it back into "it's all just a dream" territory. Still enjoyed the show, though. That's my primary point of contention, apart from the time wasted on love triangles and quadrangles.
Aug. 7, 2010, 2:30 a.m. CST
I was a huge apologist for Lost, I even loved Season 3, but I just think Season 6 was the weakest of them all. Tell me there was a reason for them to do it, plot wise.
Aug. 7, 2010, 2:40 a.m. CST
Fuck the haters. I like all of Lost, except for season four.
Aug. 7, 2010, 2:50 a.m. CST
Food drops came from Guam. The Lamppost has been deserted for almost 20 years, and the station automatically sends coordinates to the warehouse to send a loaded drone. Hydra is station one. Pierre Chang originally used his real name, but then decided it would be best to use aliases. Polar bears were trained via Sawyer-fish-biscuit test, then tagged and sent off to the Orchid to be transported away via wheel. Don't let the bears be pregnant, though, because the radiation at the Orchid causes pregnancy problems. Confirmation that The Incident caused the pregnancy problems. (Swan Radiation is the same as Orchid Radiation.) "Hurley" bird is a genetic experiment. Room 23 was used to interrogate the hostiles. As it violated the treaty, they were drugged and subjected to the glasses, music, and video as a means of inducing short term memory loss. Walt has been going by the name Keith Johnson since he left the island and is returning to help Michael and eventually be the new Hurley/Jack/Jacob/Mother. Much of this could already have been inferred, but hey, "ANSWERS!"
Aug. 7, 2010, 2:51 a.m. CST
Now we know how Chang lost his arm.
Aug. 7, 2010, 3:41 a.m. CST
by STICKY WHITE
You have some severe comprehension problems. First, in the other talkback you said the clip was from a DHARMA printing plant which shows a complete failure on your part to pay any attention. And now here you're saying that Ben wasn't shutting down the plant when he clearly states that this is what he is there to do. He did not say that they never sent the food drops, nor did he state that the Island moves around "in time", just that it moved. He did say that the Lamp Post has been shut down for twenty years, but never said anything about that stopping them from sending the shipments, only that they've been receiving automated teletypes from said station. And lastly you're now assuming that the epilogue intimated that Chang lost his arm from the polar bears even though his arm is clearly still intact throughout the entire orientation video. Somehow you totally missed the part from "The Incident" where Changs arm gets badly damaged during the shootout at the end.<p>You are not helping your side when you blurt out such inanities. In fact, I'm reminded of a line from The Abyss when Lindsey's trying to convince the others about the alien lifeforms she witnessed and that silly hippy character interjects with a bunch of loony bullshit. And I quote "Hippy (in this case you RPLocke), do me a favor and stay off my side."
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:17 a.m. CST
Chang lost his hand in "The Incident" (Season 5 Finale). Miles was trying to save him after he got his hand mangled in the machinery when everything was pulled down into the well.
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:18 a.m. CST
I shoulda read StickyWhite's post. lol.
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:54 a.m. CST
so fuck the lost producers
Aug. 7, 2010, 5:03 a.m. CST
That was thirty times more entertaining than this DVD extra.
Aug. 7, 2010, 5:26 a.m. CST
likes Lost, but hates Blade Runner. Says it all really.
Aug. 7, 2010, 6:06 a.m. CST
...apparently have trouble with subtext, inferences, and just general comprehension. Other than the dharma food drop and the hurley bird (and the walt coda), was there anything in there that couldn't be figured out through the show? Polar bears and donkey wheel, electromagnetism and pregnancies, room 23, tracking collars, the fish biscuit puzzle, the island moving...not exactly unanswered mysteries. A good extra, but definitely no need to be in the show proper.<p>But if figuring out what the Hurley bird was and where the food drop came from finally gave you closure, then god bless you. For me, I prefer the finale. <p>Thanks.
Aug. 7, 2010, 6:48 a.m. CST
from big players to buy this site and he said no. he should employ web deigners to revamp this site. if you look at darkhorizons, garth started doing that on his own. but pulled his act together and turned his site into a multimedia company. he is a professional reviewer. his site looks great and his very easy to use. Harry's site has not changed at all. wonder why?
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:04 a.m. CST
so, for those of us who are too slow to get your inference: why?
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:29 a.m. CST
That's not a swipe at the LOST producers. I just wish that fans who felt let down by the way the show ended could have realized that clues to the answers they wanted had always been there, and that pointing them all out ("Here -- ANSWERS!") was counter to the way the show worked. LOST didn't end with the solutions, but rather with all the pieces of the puzzle laid on the table. Wrapping up the character arcs was, I think, the smartest way to end the show.
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:50 a.m. CST
"The Island has great power." That was the answer to its mystery, take it or leave it, and too many viewers, either missed that answer, or refused to accept that it was all they were going to get. But here's the thing: that's not what the show was ABOUT. It was a smaller story in the grand scheme, about how two people's conflict over that power affected the lives of a group of plane crash survivors. The writers were wise to keep the origin of the Island's power ambiguous. Maybe it was a leftover energy from the Big Bang, maybe it was the spark which created all life on earth, maybe it was, like Crazy Mother said "the light in all of us." By the end of Season 5, it was pretty clear to me that the story of the origin of the energy was not as important as the story of how Jacob and MiB had used it to manipulate the lives of the Losties. ANY concrete answer to the island's mystery would landed with the dull thud. Think MIDICHLORIANS. Since the show's finale, I have read and discussed a dozen different takes on people's solutions to the mystery, all of them compelling and just as valid. That conversation, I think, will be the show's lasting legacy, and I am glad that LOST will pretty much live on because of it.
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:39 a.m. CST
..."how two people's conflict over that power affected the lives of a group of plane crash survivors"? One of whom wasn't even introduced until the 5th season? And in the 6th and final season he was retconned into a role that previously wasn't even a "role" in any sense of the word as it was previously just a phenomenon that had once been referred to as "the security system", i.e. The Smoke Monster. No, sorry dude, the writers could never really settle on "what the show was about" as that actually changed from season to season before they dug themselves an inescapable hole, got desperate and settled on the lamest possible idea of "what the show was about" in the finale.
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:46 a.m. CST
never planned on buying season 6, but glad i could see that video. and again, screw you to herc for the bullshit 'sequel' label. we all know what it is guy, and we were all going to watch it no matter what, so you really don't need to be a scumbag about it and try to trick us. christ, do you roofie your wife??
Aug. 7, 2010, 9:29 a.m. CST
I don't get it.
Aug. 7, 2010, 10:54 a.m. CST
What about the rumor that Ben and Hulrey in snow looking at the new candidates arriving. They should redo the whole season 6 altogether. If a had enough money I'd pay them to do it. The final season is a black eye the epicness of what Lost is.
Aug. 7, 2010, 11:05 a.m. CST
by The Dum Guy
*After he left the island, he started a Chinese restaurant that became a chain.
Aug. 7, 2010, 11:10 a.m. CST
by newkie brown
There's a problem with at least one of these 'answers'. "The electromagnetic levels at The Orchid have extremely harmful effects on early term gestation," says Chang in the training video. But if Dharma knew as far back as the early eighties, following the Incident, why did Ben recruit Juliet to research the fertility problems on the island? <p> I'll buy that they've left themselves some wiggle room with these answers - Dharma obviously get some things wrong. But this DVD extra seems like an attempt to mop up rather than a genuine epilogue.
Aug. 7, 2010, 11:31 a.m. CST
Juliet was researching a SOLUTION to the fertility problems on the island.
Aug. 7, 2010, 11:43 a.m. CST
I've never heard such a rumor until this talkback. And even weirder, the rumor is attributed to an AICN talkbacker? If it were real, wouldn't AICN have run it themselves?
Aug. 7, 2010, 11:45 a.m. CST
So if the electromagnetism is creating problems for pregnancies for animals as well, how did the boar have babies or any other animals on the island for that matter?
Aug. 7, 2010, 11:55 a.m. CST
I knew that something stank about that answer (that the EMP caused the pregnancy problem) but couldn't put my finger on it. You nailed it. Just another example of how these hacks made it up as it went along.
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:05 p.m. CST
by Willips Brighton
Okay, there are really infinite types of people, but allow me to use that old cliche to frame my rant: this 'epilogue' (for God's sake quit calling it a 'sequel') serves *one* type of person: the literal-minded fill-in-the-blanks-for-me type. The type who write fanfic user's manuals for every gadget they see on Star Trek because they can't bear not knowing EXACTLY how something works. The type who need the scenes in Inception where they just stop and talktalktalk. <br>The other type--count me in--realize that the Island has to remain somewhat of a mystery. And that even the world's best screenwriters could not come up with an answer to "..but HOW does the Island move?" without sounding ridiculous. Relax, people, and accept that in life and especially in fiction, some things are better left to the imagination. (And for what it's worth, Inception would have been much smarter if Juno wasn't asking so many goddamn questions.)
Aug. 7, 2010, 12:05 p.m. CST
This poor, sick, attention seeking kid has a long and tortured history on AICN under different names, and except for Media Messiah, there is no bigger nut case to be found on AICN.<p> Lockes implosion in 3...2...1...
Aug. 7, 2010, 1:53 p.m. CST
Um what the hell are you babbling on about. Ben did shut down the plant. He shut down the lamppost too. I think you're better off watching some boring crap like Blade Runner.
Aug. 7, 2010, 1:54 p.m. CST
Humans have long gestation periods and boars not so long... check and mate ;O
Aug. 7, 2010, 1:57 p.m. CST
but remember every minute detail about the show.
Aug. 7, 2010, 2:01 p.m. CST
Many people on the net are assuming this is the place where the food drops come from, yet Ben NEVER says that at all. He's just here to shut down the plant.
Aug. 7, 2010, 2:20 p.m. CST
Because a lot of who you deride as Lost Haters are former big fans who realized all too late that the show was just a con job, a collection of random mysteries the writers of which didn't have any more clue than the audience what they meant.
Aug. 7, 2010, 2:26 p.m. CST
i kind of thought in that last scene it looked like they were setting walt up to be the new man in black, i think he was wearing all black clothes even. hurly was talking kind of creepy too about how walt belonged back on the island
Aug. 7, 2010, 2:31 p.m. CST
of how special this show was. Fuck the haters. I even like the finale in retrospect. This little clip is a lot of fun. More Ben and Hurley is always good and including Walt is a great way to fill a gaping plot hole that's been there for years. Loved it.
Aug. 7, 2010, 2:33 p.m. CST
Lost was never about random mysteries. Did Jack and Kate sit around and talk about the Lost Mysteries for an hour? No.
Aug. 7, 2010, 2:54 p.m. CST
At least it bypassed the Jacob bullshit and got to the stuff that matter!<p>No reunions in heaven, no endless Jacob exposition, no NuLocke being offed by super jump-punch Jack, no hockey rounding up the Losties, JUST NO MORE BULLSHIT!!!
Aug. 7, 2010, 2:55 p.m. CST
so, you enjoyed the 12 minutes of information you pretty much already knew?
Aug. 7, 2010, 3:40 p.m. CST
I seriously would *LOVE* a Ben & Hurley (and now Walt) TV series! You know it would go through the roof!
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:01 p.m. CST
.....the bullshit goes on...and on....and on....
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:06 p.m. CST
by Dapper Swindler
Here I expected a mystery show to actually resolve its mysteries. God, I'm a real idiot right? I'm so sick of these talkbacks.
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:09 p.m. CST
You're right, people didn't talk to each other much in Lost. That's a gimmick they used to maintain mystery, rarely have people compare notes in even the most basic ways. It unquestionably was about mysteries, in the last 3 seasons the characters were reduced to simple pawns pushed around the game board by Darlton to make the plot work. And then they tried to do a switch and say it was about characters all along. Too late for that.
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:17 p.m. CST
If you hated the last 3 seasons so much you sure paid attention to every last detail.
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:18 p.m. CST
This sounds like a cheesy infodump way of doing things and I'm okay with that. Not ideal but I am very happy to learn what the origin of the bird or the cause of the infertility issue, even if they picked the laziest explanations possible.(ie: "DHARMA did it.") I still would like to know what the statue was all about though!
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:19 p.m. CST
Chang says that the electromagnetism affects "early term gestation". Which would be the time shortly after conception for any being. Even Juliet got close to the answer when she told Ben she thought the problem with the births was happening shortly around the time of conception. The length of the organisms gestation time has nothing to do with it. The video raises more problems with the birth question than it solves.
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:30 p.m. CST
Wow. That was a pretty disappointing video. The Dharma warehouse scene was amusing, but the rest was weak. What's with Hurley seeming so creepy in the van? So Hurley is offering Walt his job?Is he going to make Walt immortal till he's about to die? That bit doesn't make a ton of sense. Meh, not bad, but not worth buying.
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:34 p.m. CST
by Amazing Maurice
Have them drive from coast to coast in the Mystery Machine, pulling up to random passers-by on the street and say "Hey dude, I'll let you ask 1 question about L O S T."
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:47 p.m. CST
If they wanted to be inconspicuous why drive around in a Dharma Van?
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:51 p.m. CST
...about complaining that you have to buy the DVD set to see a clip after watching it online for free.
Aug. 7, 2010, 4:54 p.m. CST
"There's a problem with at least one of these 'answers'. "The electromagnetic levels at The Orchid have extremely harmful effects on early term gestation," says Chang in the training video. But if Dharma knew as far back as the early eighties, following the Incident, why did Ben recruit Juliet to research the fertility problems on the island?" - I sort of figured that somehow or other "The Incident" made it worse.
Aug. 7, 2010, 5:13 p.m. CST
by newkie brown
Maybe you're right about this. Like I say, they've built a certain amount of wiggle room into these answers. That said, this one seems particularly cut and dried. Drilling team opens up electromagnetic pocket. Bomb detonates. Dharma seals up rift and builds station over it. Fertility problems begin (or accelerate). <p> Presumably the fertility problems that Chang alludes to have not affected the hostiles during all their years on the island, so it's a bit of a head scratcher.
Aug. 7, 2010, 5:22 p.m. CST
who leaked the 12 minutes??<P>i say it was mib
Aug. 7, 2010, 5:27 p.m. CST
I guarantee you people WILL pay for the season six and full series set anyway. Hell I preordered season six months ago.
Aug. 7, 2010, 5:33 p.m. CST
As much as I will defend THE END, I admit that one aspect of the finale nagged at me after it was over -- the seemingly Deus Ex Machina revelation of the Sideways world. To me, it was not clear enough whether that place -- certainly not a real physical place -- was a product of the energy of the Island, or was simply Purgatory in the form of the Losties' shared experiences. If it is the latter, then pretty much ANY show could end with a Sideways world! I prefer -- yes, *prefer* -- to believe that somehow the collective longing of the Losties at the Swan site in 1977, coupled with the energy of the Incident and Jughead, created that Sideways World, ethereal though it may have been. Indeed, just before Jack lets go of Jughead, you hear a snippet of the recurring Lost death music, as if all the Losties who had died were in Jack's mind. Alternatively, it's just as reasonable to consider that Jack, using the last of his power imbued from drinking the Source water, conjured the Sideways in his final moments.
Aug. 7, 2010, 5:51 p.m. CST
...Why would it need a 12-minute epilogue?<P> FUCK OFF LINDELOF.<P> The finale killed any rewatchability the series may have had. Don't give a shit. Harry, why are you still shilling for these half-assed lying motherfuckers? It's not good writing, it's LYING! Stop pushing this shit, it's embarrassing!!
Aug. 7, 2010, 5:56 p.m. CST
You IDOIT!! This was not shot after the finale. It was shot DURING the finale. But when the finale ran long they had to cut it. Fuck.
Aug. 7, 2010, 6:08 p.m. CST
Why don't you ACTUALLY read what ThrowMeTheIdol is saying re LOST being a fucking con job and the so-called "haters" actually being massive LOST fans who got fucking sick of being conned by writers too lazy and talentless to even keep the fucking storyline coherent and narrative driven EVEN THOUGH IT IS THE ONLY JOB THEY ARE FUCKING PAID TO DO??<P> Wow, to think we "haters" actually expect a TV show to make sense... we're so fucking unreasonable for expecting that, aren't we? We should just accept this incomprehensible bullshit and say thanks like you do, huh? Have you any fucking idea how dumb your posts make you sound?? JEEEEEE-sus......
Aug. 7, 2010, 6:11 p.m. CST
Yeah, 'cos all the Jack-and-his-not-real-son sure made more sense in terms of tying up the show, huh? Maybe the endless shots of Jack or Hurley or who-fucking-ever sitting on a hill waiting for Jacob to show up and NOT explain fucking ANYTHING were SOOOO much more important to the finale than, say, 12 minutes of ACTUALLY ANSWERING THE FUCKING QUESTIONS ABC HAS BEEN ADVERTISING THAT THEY WOULD FOR THE LAST SIX YEARS??!?<P> Keep chugging that Dharma kool-aid, friend...
Aug. 7, 2010, 6:15 p.m. CST
...Yes, living in an area where there is lingering radiation from H-bomb detonation fallout would certainly cause pregnancy problems, but since everyone on the island would probably have terminal cancers from the radiation first, I doubt there's be any pregnancies to worry about.<P> But hey - if you're a LOST writer, why bother doing research on an area that has stayed populated through an H-bomb detonation - say, Hiroshima or Nagasaki - when you can do blow off a Hawaiian hooker's ass and not bother writing coherent scripts all day? What? Artistic integrity? What the FUCK IS THAT?? We're LOST writers, not artists! We gots to get PAAAAAAAAAIIIID, yo!! And no, we don't give a fuck about how our work is received, or watched in future. It's over, we got the money, fuck all the fans. See ya...
Aug. 7, 2010, 6:16 p.m. CST
My point? I was a fan of the show LOST, but I didn't recognize her at first. Her comment was, "How quickly they forget". True words. It's over. Time to change the channel. :)
Aug. 7, 2010, 6:25 p.m. CST
because its been taken down at most places. I'm in the UK if that matters <P><P>And yeah the fact the sideways seemingly has little to do with the Island's powers was one of my major gripes with that whole storyline.
Aug. 7, 2010, 6:29 p.m. CST
The 7th post down in this thread by bramton1 has a working link.
Aug. 7, 2010, 6:31 p.m. CST
I can't believe people still care about Lost...but I will say at least some of its fans are loyal enough to care about it still.
Aug. 7, 2010, 6:54 p.m. CST
Fucking awesome man lol I loved your bit about RPlocke too... just exposed that nutjob brilliantly :-) <P> Yeah, i love how the term "hater" keeps getting thrown around. Yet, we know EVERY FUCKING DETAIL about the show! Hhhhmmmm, that's weird... I wonder why that is? Well, folks like RPlocke, if they actually THOUGHT about it for a fucking second without getting all hyper-defensive and shit, would probably realize that all these so called "haters" were once HUGE FANS of the show! In fact, they were probably BIGGER fans than the manic and simple minded apologists. We loved the show for the RIGHT reasons. That's why we respect early lost so much (mainly season 1, but through the season 3 finale, the series' final highpoint...) However, due to our LOVE and ADMIRATION for the show, as it started to run off the tracks a bit, we stuck with it. We wanted to give the showrunners the BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT... so we kept fucking watching. We watched it all the way through the end, as any respectable fan SHOULD have done. And when it was over, the smart, caring, rational-minded fans simply HAD to come to the terrible conclusion that Lost COMPLETELY FUCKING DERAILED. There is no possible way for a true fan of ART, with any artistic integrity to come away feeling any different. If you love and respect quality art, and you are intellectually honest with yourself, you have no other option than to absolutely HATE what the once brilliant LOST had become. Not only SHOULD you "hate" it... you should freely express yourself as such. Lindelof and Cuse MUST be held accountable for their actions. In this case, destroying a once phenomenal show... Likewise, any sane, reasonable person with any sort of artistic integrity would also despise other EPIC FAILURES such as: The Star Wars Prequels, the Matrix Sequels, Terminator 3, Alien Resurrection, Spiderman 3, X-Men 3, etc... (All of these films, like Lost, suffer from the exact same film-making/storytelling problems, which we can get into if anyone isn't clear about them...) If you don't absolutely LOATHE these films than i cannot respect your "opinions" on art, or honestly, respect you as a human being. It's that simple. We so called "haters" do, in fact, posess more "hate" than you... Additionally, we also have more LOVE than you as well. Our admiration and respect for truly great works of art are more REAL and GENUINE than you will ever know. Conversely, our HATE and DISRESPECT for such atrocities will be greater than yours too. It all comes down to PASSION. We have MORE PASSION than you do, at least in terms of art. So you go "enjoy" everything you watch or do, and not "hate" on anything, and enjoy your miserable little ZOMBIE-LIKE existence. I, for one, LOVE to be passionate. Love, HATE, and all that comes with it :-) <P> Yeah, but anyway, we're just "haters"... We got nothing better to do than "hate" on shit. 'Cause we just LOVE to be angry. Yup, THAT'S it. Let me go satisfy my hateful urge and go pop in season 1 of lost on DVD, and love EVERY FUCKING SINGLE FRAME of it. I'll laugh, cry, be fully engaged, and filled with wonder and awe while i watch that brilliant first season. Yup, TOTAL HATER right here... <P> So to all you APOLOGISTS, and to those that throw around the word "hater" every chance they get, i ask you to really consider all these points i just made. Really COMPREHEND this shit, as it may just cause you to pull your HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS, and understand where we are coming from... And maybe, eventually, you will be lucky enough to become "enlightened" just like the rest of us.
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:01 p.m. CST
Notice how he shouts insults to anyone who will try to reason with him, and he still goes on a rant about how Lost sucks. Hey Spud, you suck.
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:03 p.m. CST
I went from loving LOST as well as thinking the writers were a couple of semi-geniuses to feeling like the victim of the most intellectually insulting prank ever. Hack writers, hack show.
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:04 p.m. CST
Did you read the rest of my post by the way? I really think you of all people would benefit from it. Maybe it will help change your perspective a bit?
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:07 p.m. CST
I see a lot of name-calling from yourself. You just have this mistaken impression that you are somehow "above" all of these so called "haters", because you LIKE the show. That ain't reality dude... so WAKE UP.
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:07 p.m. CST
Ha, I actually quite enjoyed that. But it seems obvious to me that this was filmed as a seperate entity than the finale, it may have been shot roughly the same time, but it is its own piece. <P><P>For starters its not credited to Darlton or directed by Jack Bender. There's no way those scenes would fit into a finale and the subtext of the whole "we want asnwers" scene places it directly at the DVD market. IMO they really SHOULD have worked Walt into the finale proper, it would have made it far more satisfying. <P><P>As for the dharma "answers", well they are all contradictory. How can the polar bears be there for electromagnetic study at the Orchid when we know they were there BEFORE the Orchid was even discovered?!
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:09 p.m. CST
You know you fuckers will be buying the Lost DVD and Encyclopedia the day it comes out. Asshats.
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:11 p.m. CST
Well fucking said. Totally agree with you. But i still DO care... I felt so passionate about early lost, that i'm not sure i will ever fully "move on" about it. What a missed opportunity. And THAT is a fuckin understatement. I just have too much passion man... Shit, i could still go on about STAR WARS for God's sake! What was that, like 7 YEARS AGO? lol
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:12 p.m. CST
I agree that most of us "haters" were once big fans of the show, the only thing I'd take issue with from your post is that for me s4 is the best season of the show. S6 just gradually gets worse and worse as it goes on, culminating in the finale, bu the previous 5 years are pretty good. Can't bring myself to ever rewatch them though
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:28 p.m. CST
by Amazing Maurice
That was a great post dude. I think the age of cynicism really began over 10 years ago with The Phantom Menance. Now the years and jaded distaste with the entertainment world makes us cautious and pre-disposed to hate every movie or TV Show or musician that comes along. <P>EVERYTHING is shit. <P>LOST was the Holy Grail. It could have reaffirmed our belief. But in the end it shat the bed and it stank like a mother fucker. Just another disappointment on the ever-growing List of FAIL.
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:34 p.m. CST
Season 1 was and then 3 and then 5. Move on Lost haters. Go hate something shitty like True Blood or Mad Men.
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:37 p.m. CST
If you're still here, i responded to your posts about me in the other talkback from earlier in the week: <P> http://www.aintitcool.com/talkback_display/46000 <P> Also, if anyone else wants to go on there and check it out, your comments/feedback would be appreciated. Just read the last few posts on there... We get off on a little side tangent about science vs. religion, and it actually kind of fits in with what we are debating about LOST. Interesting stuff...
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:39 p.m. CST
I've never seen the show, but isn't Mad Men supposed to be pretty great? Obviously, RPlocke cares nothing about the craft of film-making or art in general, for that matter... what a shallow, tasteless, unobjective, waste of a person this guy is... lol
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:42 p.m. CST
while you guys drone on and on about wny Lost sucks.
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:51 p.m. CST
Very interesting that you like season 4 the best... what specifically made you like it the best? I'm just curious :-) And actually, upon first viewing, i really enjoyed season 4. The Flashforwards were kind of a welcome, fresh new angle (after the flashbacks were starting to become rather stale)... and the freighter crew were pretty great characters. Had a nice, lean feel to the season, as it was shortened by the strike. Not too much wasted screentime. <P> However, upon rewatching that season, it really is kind of poor. The flashforward storyline is pretty weak and empty when all is said and done, and the freighter storyline doesn't have the payoff that we expected from the earlier episodes. It really kind of ends anti-climactically, much like the anticipated, and ultimately poorly executed return of Michael. <P> Pretty dissapointing overall, but i did love The Constant, a truly fantastic episode... and The Shape of Things to come was, i believe, to be the last highpoint for the series, in hindsight. What a fucking INCREDIBLE final 30 minutes of that episode: Ben's humbling experience, with the unexpected and brutal, tragic death of Alex... to the awesome Rampaging Smokey encounter (never seen Smokey quite like that before)... to the final EPIC scene with Ben and Widmore. The setup for something amazing... that ended with a soft, wet fart. <P> What a shame.
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:52 p.m. CST
Are you really trying to debate this? Lol I've seen your "opinions" on other films and TV shows in the past, and you are, without a doubt, one of the biggest morons on this website. <P> And that is saying something!
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:55 p.m. CST
Jezus, shut up.
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:56 p.m. CST
I still put it ahead of season's 5 and 6 definitely, as the show just got progressively worse... but it is still behind Season's 1, 2, and 3 overall. But i can respect your defense of that season. Whereas, season's 5 and 6 are so poor, that i just simply cannot respect any opinions that defend them as "quality TV" or quality ART. <P> No chance.
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:57 p.m. CST
Yeah, we found Desmond and the hatch, but the show was a big stall. Season 2 ending didn't explain a thing. Season 3 was awesome and Mr. Echo and Locke were terrific.
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:57 p.m. CST
were you mocking me for that? "Film-Maki"? The fucking website cut off the header you nitwit. <P> And shit, you just spelled Jesus with a "Z". Christ, now i really know what kind of person i'm dealing with here... lol
Aug. 7, 2010, 7:59 p.m. CST
How i continually express myself clearly when engaging in discourse about the show, and well, about ANYTHING for that matter... And you blurt out these one sentence, antagonistic, and childish remarks. My, how deep you are... <P> You rock dude!!!
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:03 p.m. CST
And furthermore... "Live Together, Die Alone" was one of the finest episodes of the series, and season 3 actually had more STALLING than season 2 even did. The season didn't really start moving until 3.13 "The Man from Tallahassee". Then it stalled AGAIN, and got moving at about 3.19, "The Brig". From that episode on, to the amazing finale, was some quality fucking TV. Epic stuff. But there was certainly a lot to DISLIKE about season 3, especially the first half...
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:04 p.m. CST
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:06 p.m. CST
You said "Season 3 was awesome and Mr. Echo and Locke were terrific". Huh? Mr. EKO, wasn't even really IN season 3. Died in the 5th episode, and didn't even APPEAR until the end of the 3rd... wow, that's a weird claim to make there my friend. It almost renders your "opinion" of the quality of the seasons in question, MOOT. Does it not? <P> I just think it's funny that people who are defending this show, are clearly demonstrating that they know LESS about the show than the so called "haters". Hhhhmmmm, curious...
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:07 p.m. CST
you highlight. Fan fucking tastic.
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:08 p.m. CST
Classic stuff man lol. You got the "forgot your meds" line down... check. And the all encompassing "who cares?". Check. <P> Wow, you sure showed me bro! Any other gems you got there for me?
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:10 p.m. CST
So what. Echo didn't even meet Locke until the middle of Season 2. The best episode of Echo was still in Season 3 where he tells Sayid and Locke that they are next.
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:12 p.m. CST
You didn't let me finish about season 2. After the phenomenal opening sequence in "Man of science, Man of faith" (Entire episode, at least the HATCH stuff, was fucking excellent), "Orientation", the introduction of Dharma, Mr. Fucking Eko, the introduction of "Henry Gale" (who was absolutely fucking CLASS that season), "The Hunting Party" (more quality "zeke"!), "Three Minutes", and the awesome "Two for the Road"... shall i go on? Far from the perfect season ONE, but still, nonetheless, pretty fucking good. And arguably the 2nd best season overall.
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:15 p.m. CST
Sawyer Jin and Michael are trapped and held in cages for a good chunk of Season 2. BIG STALL! And we don't even meet The Others again. until the end of the season
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:20 p.m. CST
What a sloppy, contrived, mess of a season that was... TERRIBLE Off-Island stuff, and the time-travelling shit was just GOOFY. The Rousseau episode? Fucking TERRIBLE execution. The Dharma stuff in the 2nd half of the season was so fucking AWKWARD, and forced... it was almost like some bad fan-fic garbage. Terrible acting, terrible writing, terrible character development, terrible EVERYTHING. <P> The only props i'll give to that season was the Locke sub-plot when he returned to the island. All the Locke and Ben stuff was fucking sweet, and the Finale "The Incident", despite being underwhelming overall, with the hilariously retarded/contrived bomb sub-plot, had 2 fucking incredible scenes: The Opening scene with MIB and Jacob, and the Ben, Flocke, Jacob scene at the end. Had a phenomenal twist that actually made you want to go back and watch the series starting at about midway through season 3, and the introduction of Mark Pellegrino and Titus Wellever was very welcome. Truly great actors, those 2...
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:24 p.m. CST
LMAO Dude, exaggerating much? It was like episodes 4 and 5 that they were "prisoners" of the others. They started going back to the beach at the by episode 6, and met up with sayid at the end of that episode. So 2 episodes was a "good chunk"? <P> Man, i think you really need to go rewatch that season. Better yet, just go back and watch the WHOLE SERIES, as you clearly have missed some fairly big things...
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:29 p.m. CST
RPlocke reflects a lot of Lost apologists. The people who defend the show at the end... have LESS of an understanding of the show than the "haters" do. In other words, the more you actually KNOW about the show... the more you use your BRAIN... the more likely you are to DISLIKE the show, in the end. The people who defend it blindly, when it comes down to it... don't understand it! So clearly, their "opinion" of the show as a whole is basically invalid... It would be like watching one random episode of The X-Files, and going "Yup, this show is shit". You don't have the whole picture. To have a fair "opinion" on something, it's better to have all of the facts. You guys get what i'm saying here?
Aug. 7, 2010, 8:40 p.m. CST
by Amazing Maurice
That show fizzled out like a runny shit from an old man's arse, but at least the final episode attempted to answer every mystery on show. Even if some it was re-conned, it still ATTEMPTED to explain it all in a logistical way that made plenty of "oh yeah" sense.<P>But have to disagree about the introduction of Mark Pellegrino and Titus Wellever being welcome.<P>The biggest (and most disappointing) mistake LOST ever made was explaining away the mysterious smoke monster as being just A GUY.<P>Fuh-king lame.
Aug. 7, 2010, 9:01 p.m. CST
Aug. 7, 2010, 9:11 p.m. CST
" the more you use your BRAIN... the more likely you are to DISLIKE the show, in the end. The people who defend it blindly, when it comes down to it... don't understand it!"-This very well me the most arrogant, pretentious, condescending statement ever made on this board (and that's really saying something). Well done, douchebag.
Aug. 7, 2010, 9:18 p.m. CST
Why all the anger between posters who like or dislike the show? Did we all watch each and every episode? Yes. Have you, are you, still watching every episode of CSI? or CSI NY? or NCIS? or did you watch every 24? No. So what made this show special? Why, if it was so terrible, did you all watch every single episode, and in the amazing case of some haters, mulitple times if it sucks. Do you sit there with a numb girlfriend going 'see? that's why it sucks...let's watch it again" I mean, as the Bard said, I think you protest too much.
Aug. 7, 2010, 9:39 p.m. CST
by Cap'n Jack
...I would have been more satisfied. Not much, but a little.
Aug. 7, 2010, 10:03 p.m. CST
I don't like Seasons 2 or 4 but somehow I am a huge apologist.
Aug. 7, 2010, 10:11 p.m. CST
Is that one guy at the Trek con who asks William Shatner some pointless question about warp drive.
Aug. 7, 2010, 11:08 p.m. CST
I love your rant and you can count me in your LOST corner. However, since LOST made me lose all faith in scripted television forever, I will only be able to comment on Jersey Shore and American Idol from now on.
Aug. 7, 2010, 11:11 p.m. CST
Aug. 7, 2010, 11:20 p.m. CST
I crack up every time I read a lost apologist say that the haters don't understand what the show was about yet fail to explain it, like the show is some intangible secret of divine abstract purpose only apologists can extract. To you pseudo-intellectuals I say this: take a step back from your time investment and accept the fact that maybe, just maybe, you were duped. Because, you still look like fools defending the turd that is the end of LOST, and maybe, years from now sitting in your rocking chair you'll realize how much denial you are living with today.
Aug. 7, 2010, 11:25 p.m. CST
was duped. Yes. We SURE were duped by the end there, even though Lost is still one of the top 10 best all time TV shows. Oh yes. In 10 years will Mad Men even be remembered?
Aug. 8, 2010, 1:17 a.m. CST
It find that term odd, because here its used as a bad term to discribe someone who still likes Lost. Funny thing is though is I don't really see someone who still loves lost say that they are sorry for watching it or that they are repentant. I have seen those that don't like it pratically apologize over and over again. Its been used so much that I don't really think that anyone knows what it means anymore. <br> <br>I still love Lost, but I'm not an apologist, I'm not sorry in the least I prefer the term Lost Defender. <br> <br> I love Lost and I use my brain every time that I watch it, because Darlton has left many clues to figure out most of the mysteries if if you just take the steps to piece them together.
Aug. 8, 2010, 1:20 a.m. CST
If you hate something you're a hater, and if you like something you're an apologist.
Aug. 8, 2010, 1:34 a.m. CST
the statue represents fertility and life. the natives of the island had problems with miscarriages and such (as per this Dharma tape confirming it's the magnetism) so it's natural they would build an honorific to the Goddess of Fertility. Hoping for healthy kids. As for the island it's The Garden Of Eden. It's the Font of life. It's the reactor for the life energy of the Earth. Now as I see it (metaphorically of course)the water is the life energy given up by those who die. It's drawn back into the island. Where it fell into what appeared to be lava. I'm guessing it's a metaphor for the underworld. It keeps the "lava" cool and in turn keeps it from destroying the world. It's similar to a sacrifice that appeases a God.
Aug. 8, 2010, 2:18 a.m. CST
If women give have problems giving birth on the island, how did Ethan get born? If you are pregnant on island, is that when you have problems?
Aug. 8, 2010, 2:54 a.m. CST
"" the more you use your BRAIN... the more likely you are to DISLIKE the show, in the end. The people who defend it blindly, when it comes down to it... don't understand it!"-This very well me the most arrogant, pretentious, condescending statement ever made on this board (and that's really saying something). Well done, douchebag." <P> Arrogant, pretentious, condescending, etc... got that. However, you forgot the most important word: Insightful. <P> I also would have accepted "True".
Aug. 8, 2010, 2:59 a.m. CST
says: "If you hate something you're a hater, and if you like something you're an apologist." <P> Close, but not quite. If you hate on something that is GOOD, than yes, you are in fact a "hater". Like talking shit about Empire Strikes Back... Raiders of the Lost Ark, Inception, etc. Likewise, if you defend CRAP, such as the star wars prequels, the matrix sequels, X-Men 3, the latter seasons of Lost (especially the fucking finale), than yes, you are in fact an apologist. There is no disputing this. Sure, those words get thrown around way too much, but in certain circumstances, they are warranted.
Aug. 8, 2010, 3:08 a.m. CST
...are all words that you could use to describe people like: Bill Maher, Richard Dawkins, and Cristopher Hitchens. But you would also call them brilliant thinkers/debaters, insightful, clever, witty, intelligent rationalists. Who just got fed up and refuse to put up with people's bullshit anymore... so you can throw me in there with those 3 wonderful human beings ;-) <P> arrogant, pretentious, condescending people, UNITE!
Aug. 8, 2010, 3:19 a.m. CST
I think Lost would struggle to get into the top 50 best TV programmes ever , right now. Never mind in 10 years.<P> <P> Its the kind of ignorance of everything that has gone before and the blind belief that Lost is somehow up there with the greats that really makes the defenders of Lost look faintly ridiculous.<P> <P> For me it was basically an innovative adventure set up on an Island which tried to overcome some of the story telling limitations with the use of flashbacks.<P> <P> However this story did not fit 6 seasons of show and so it failed to live up to expectations by dragging things out, being unnecessarily obtuse, and by having its characters act in a way that did not feel real (not asking questions/witholding info) and led to us resenting some of the "heroes" hugely.<P> <P> An ambitious fail that probably won't have as much resonance in folks minds in 10 years time as say Twin Peaks-- and probably not a show that will do well in re- runs.
Aug. 8, 2010, 3:31 a.m. CST
answering lingering questions, and more about mocking the audience gently, in the form of the warehouse workers, as those are absolutely not the questions that we would ask if we had been allowed only two (hurleybird works better as an unanswered "wha-tha-fuck?!" or as an allusion to the various mythical green birds mentioned on LOSTpedia).
Aug. 8, 2010, 3:33 a.m. CST
as it seemed disconnected from The Island. Is it a phenomenon only experienced by the Losties, or everyone, because if everyone, then what happened in their first lives and on the island was pointless to be aware of.
Aug. 8, 2010, 4:08 a.m. CST
Agreed on The X-Files. Before Lost came along, that was the television series that you would compare any new serialized show to, going "well, i hope they don't PULL AN X-FILES on us!". Now Lost, sadly, will be THAT show... X-Files started off great and then lost steam a few seasons in. And as dissapointing as that series was by the end of it, it still wasn't even close to as terrible as the way Lost ended. And i really can't believe i'm saying that lol. Especially when Lindelof and co. had the x-files to look at, and go "hey, we can't do THAT here with our show..." They had huge fan support, a very supportive and unusually helpful network backing them, and mistakes from the past to learn from (X-files, Twin Peaks, etc.)... and when all was said and done, they failed. Even HARDER. Unbelievable... <P> And that point about Pellegrino and Wellever that you disagree with me about... I guess you misinterpreted what i said. I meant the addition of those 2 as ACTORS. NOT there characters that they portrayed. 'Cause i totally agree about the characters. They started off pretty intriguing actually, but they never payed their relationship off in any meaningful way... Lots of potential, but no payoff or substance. But you cannot dispute the fact that those are two terrific actors, and that it was a pleasant surprise to see them on Lost.
Aug. 8, 2010, 4:10 a.m. CST
it landed on the main island... didnt it??? even when they try and be smartasses by actually explaining things they fuck it up!
Aug. 8, 2010, 4:12 a.m. CST
meant "their", not "there"... it's getting late lol. I just didn't want the Grammar Police to come in and arrest me ;-)
Aug. 8, 2010, 4:18 a.m. CST
I don't completely disagree with you. I think you could definitely make a case for season 3 being the runner-up to season 1. I have actually kind of gone back and forth between the 2 myself. Season 3 just has such a dead period in the first quarter of the season... you know, the CAGE SHIT lol. And some more dead spots like "Par Avion", "Tricia Tanaka Is Dead", the horrible "Expose", "Left Behind", etc... But it fucking kicks ass when Locke arrives in New Otherton in "The Man From Tallahassee", and then again from "The Brig" through the Finale... Truly awesome stuff. So yeah, that is definitely debatable, and i love discussing the pros and cons of those 2 seasons in question. <P> However, i hope we are in agreement that season's 5 and 6 are really, all things considered, pretty damn awful...
Aug. 8, 2010, 4:35 a.m. CST
I think you're just not understanding the "hater" point of view here... The reason why we all watched the show, was because, at first, it was fucking AMAZING. Unbelievable potential, with that premise, the cast and crew, composer, the setting/locale, etc... Nobody could stop watching the show after that first season. No fucking way. And season's 2 and 3, while not perfect, still kept it going pretty strong, and especially ending season 3 with that phenomenal 2 hour finale. I mean, really, how could you stop watching after "We have to go back!" lol. Not possible. Even Season 4 had enough to keep it fresh and intriguing... And as shitty as season 5 was, the introduction of Jacob and MIB just about made up for any misfires along the way. That twist with Locke, and the death of Jacob coupled with the bomb being detonated, was enough to keep me salivating in anticipation of season 6... <P> Then season 6 came and pretty much knocked it out of the park with LA X. I was definitely back on track. But over the course of the season, it became increasingly clear that they were, once again, STALLING. It meandered and remained pretty stagnant over the course of the season, and didn't provide any real interesting character arcs, or anything really engaging for the audience. It built up the Jacob/MIB relationship pretty nicely though, so i still held out some hope for the Finale. And of course there were some brilliant self-contained episodes like Ab Aeterno and Happily Ever After to appease us... After Across the Sea (One of the worst moments of my life lol), i basically set myself up for the expectation that the Finale was gonna be pretty rough... However, those fucking bastards knocked it out of the park again with "What They Died For". My expectations rose again, and i was actually kind of eagerly awaiting the Finale (more like "cautiously optimistic", i suppose)... and well, you all know what happened with that lol. Even WORSE than i could have possibly imagined. And if you want my specific take on that debacle, go read the Finale Talkback and look for any posts by "Fettitular" where i went on and practically wrote "essays" on my feelings about it, deconstructing it piece by piece, ala Mr. Plinkett ;-) <P> So Stormwatcher, that is why we all watched it. It was our once beloved show (our BABY), that we kept continually trying to give the benefit of the doubt to... And in the end, we called it for what it was. We were HONEST with ourselves. That's what honest-to-god, good parents do with their children. The apologists are using the often used, but harmful approach, known as UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.
Aug. 8, 2010, 4:36 a.m. CST
Jacobs bro is not the O.G. smoke Monster. Neither was their island Adopto-Mom. Smokey is super ancient.
Aug. 8, 2010, 4:45 a.m. CST
He said: "I don't like Seasons 2 or 4 but somehow I am a huge apologist." <P> And you forgot "idiot" too ;-) Seriously man, you clearly demonstrated a little earlier in the talkback, that you don't have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to LOST. You mixed up season's 2 and 3 multiple times, and didn't have your facts straight at all. At this point, you should probably just get out of this discussion we're all having here, and move on to something you may actually have some knowledge about... In the meantime, your opinion can be considered MOOT. Thanks bro
Aug. 8, 2010, 4:47 a.m. CST
Actually, it wasn't established either way on the show. Another mystery "The Powers That Be" left intentionally vague as to promote discussion, under the impression that what they were doing was clever, and could be left open to interpretation... But as we all know, they ain't that smart ;-)
Aug. 8, 2010, 4:48 a.m. CST
Don't describe Mad Men as shitty, it makes you look like a twat. More so than your previous posts. In 10 years time yes, it will be remembered. In the same way that The Wire, Deadwood and Rome will be. LOST? Not so much. <P><P>LOST had its moments and was entertaining during its run, but the pay-off so clumsy and the final season so slapdash as to render it unwatchable. <P><P>@Gargantuan Forehead, I liked s4 because it introduced new characters, it tells what close enough to being a complete story, and aside from Ji Yeon (and its stupid gimmck structure) there is no bad episode. I agree however that IN CONTEXT of the series as a whole, that season seems rather insignificant.
Aug. 8, 2010, 4:51 a.m. CST
scene in Shape of Things is, the fact that there were no "rules" makes it really stupid looking back
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:01 a.m. CST
may or may not have been, as seen on the show. What we SHOULD be talking about, was what The Smoke Monster SHOULD have been from the beginning... (Some abstract entity that scans minds and appears to them as their deepest fears, perhaps?) <P> I'm truly finding that the best LOST related discussions and debates are ideas and theories about where the show COULD have gone. What could have been... Hell, the freakin' guy that created the damn show, J.J. Abrahms, has stated that where they took the show, wasn't what they all had originally envisioned. And that was when Lindelof and Cuse went all "George Lucas" (Power crazy) and got rid of all of the creative talent that constituted the 1st season (David Fury, along with a few other writers...) That was the beginning of the end. So no, LOST is NOT Damon's baby. It's not his sacred cow. It took on a life of its own, and it was what it was because of MANY people (cast and crew, etc.), and hell, even the FANS. So it would not be wrong to spend a little time thinking about what COULD have been. There are TONS of ways that LOST could have evolved over the course of time, and it's pretty awesome (and cathartic in a way...) to think about it :-)
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:02 a.m. CST
EXACTLY! I can't believe how dissapointing that ended up when all was said and done. They didn't even make a fuckin' attempt to explain that lol
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:05 a.m. CST
Absolutely agree with you on your assessment of Season 4. Good job bro. <P> However, i wouldn't say that there wasn't a bad episode that season... "The Other Woman" ring a bell? ;-)
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:06 a.m. CST
"Something Nice Back Home". Another fairly shit episode from Season 4. Eggtown was pretty wack too, and that's about it...
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:12 a.m. CST
he said: "Before i have to shack up in a camper van for at least a month, please!.. People who try to attack the end of the show have less of an understanding of the entire series and what makes it so great than the 'apologists' who defned it, by the way. Just to help make furthur light of the situation, ahem. Season 5 was great as well, when you watch it back over with 6, it all works so well. You just have to pay attention, actaully remember shit, retain stuff in your memory etc. Lost is not in bite-size just for snack whores to have a go on, if that makes sense." <P> Are you serious? Umm... i actually DO retain information from the show. Did you not read my fucking posts? LOL it was the Uber-Apologist, Mr. RPLocke that clearly demonstrated a lack of understanding... Sorry bud, but i know what the fuck i'm talking about. I know more about this damn show than you ever could by watching it a dozen times over, so don't try to fucking lecture me lol. It has already been proven bud. The more CRITICAL THOUGHT you put into the show... the more PLOT-HOLES, INCONSISTENCIES, UNRESOLVED PLOT THREADS, etc. you will notice. It's not that fucking hard to understand! Jesus Christ, some of you people are fucking D.E.N.S.E.
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:16 a.m. CST
that the only times i really get "animated" are when people attack ME, as Darkocity just did indirectly... if you run your ignorant mouth i'm going to shove it back into your fucking face lol. But if you are CIVIL, like D. Vader, etc. I will be civil myself. <P> Cool beans?
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:18 a.m. CST
"I love your rant and you can count me in your LOST corner. However, since LOST made me lose all faith in scripted television forever, I will only be able to comment on Jersey Shore and American Idol from now on." <P> Thanks man, glad to hear from a fellow "hater" ;-) And unfortunately i agree with you... it looks like Reality TV is going to be the best option lol... As it seems that scripted, serialized shows are impossible to keep on track. What a shame...
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:20 a.m. CST
"I crack up every time I read a lost apologist say that the haters don't understand what the show was about yet fail to explain it, like the show is some intangible secret of divine abstract purpose only apologists can extract. To you pseudo-intellectuals I say this: take a step back from your time investment and accept the fact that maybe, just maybe, you were duped. Because, you still look like fools defending the turd that is the end of LOST, and maybe, years from now sitting in your rocking chair you'll realize how much denial you are living with today." <P> Fuckin' A man... <P> Fuckin' A.
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:23 a.m. CST
You may be, THE BIGGEST APOLOGIST for Lost that i have EVER come across. And that is not hyperbole lol... Now, what that said, i do appreciate your calm demeanor. You really do seem like a nice fellow... but dude, you are DEAD WRONG about this one. <P> "I love Lost and I use my brain every time that I watch it, because Darlton has left many clues to figure out most of the mysteries if if you just take the steps to piece them together." <P> If you truly believe what you typed there... man, have i got a religion to sell you! ;-)
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:27 a.m. CST
Well fucking said mate! Other shows in the same GENRE as Lost that will be thought of better in 10 years... The Prisoner, Twin Peaks, The Twilight Zone, The X-Files, and hell i'll even through in Firefly.
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:29 a.m. CST
I couldn't believe how much i enjoyed Firefly. Maybe Lindelof should have consulted with Joss Whedon on how to create REAL, RELATABLE, FLESHED OUT characters... <P> And hell, he could have thrown in some advice on how to MOVE THE PLOT FORWARD. As in, not fucking RUNNING AROUND IN CIRCLES.
Aug. 8, 2010, 6:25 a.m. CST
"Remain true to yourself, but move ever upward toward greater consciousness and greater love! At the summit you will find yourselves united with all those who, from every direction, have made the same ascent. For everything that rises must converge.<p>  ‍‍‍‍<br>Ω
Aug. 8, 2010, 6:26 a.m. CST
Aug. 8, 2010, 7:12 a.m. CST
I wasn't at all happy with how it ended though. I think the whole sideways thing was beyond stupid and was misleading in all the worst ways. But there is a whole lot about the series which I loved. I am not going to let a semipoor ending ruin the whole show for me. But did it end on a lame note? No question about it, if it didn't we wouldn't still be arguing about it every week months later. I will say this, if they picked up the story from the end of this dvd extra I know my ass would be sitting in front of my tv next week watching it still. That alone proves to me the show as a whole was fantastic.
Aug. 8, 2010, 7:15 a.m. CST
I just watched it - I don't think it's even a deleted scene, the pacing plays too weird. It's like they went 'shit, everyone hated the finale, what's the quickest and cheapest way we can shoot an extra bit that wraps up as many of the unanswered little questions that we can feasibly think of explanations for?' 'Well, how about an extra long one of those stupid dharma videos?' 'Bill... you're a goddamn genius.'
Aug. 8, 2010, 7:17 a.m. CST
Ah, funny you should mention 'Something Nice Back Home' as apparently its proof of Darlton's excessive planning and foreshadowing, if you believe prolific LOST defender BilboeFett that is. On one of the recent TBs he stated that the reason Jack gets his appendix removed in that episode is so when NotLocke stabbed him in the finale he had time to get back to the magic cave and turn the light back on. Otherwise his appendix would have ruptured and he's have died there and then. Its all planned see :) <P><P>Honestly, you've got to hand it to Darlton, what they did was basically throw out enough sci-fi concepts and talk of destiny that the most determined defender can argue that any plot makes sense by nailing any 2 abandoned plotpoints together. Its genius
Aug. 8, 2010, 7:33 a.m. CST
PASSION!!! It's what makes life bearable amidst the tidal wave of shite the Western civilisation is facing regarding popular culture. We live in an era where people will WILLINGLY submit themselves to being derided and mocked by Lord Simon Cowell the Anti Christ of Popular Culture, and then look on that as their 15 minutes of fame. Completely without irony.<P> Face it: most people are too fucking dumb to understand quality entertainment when they get it. Which is why, in the end, the media makes dumb shit - to cater to the lowest common denominator. And man, is that fucking denominator LOW><P> TWILIGHT. The Vampire Diaries. American Idol. America's Next Top Model. Any soap opera you can name. TRANSFUCKINGFORMERS. Most stuff with Abrams, Lindelof or Cuse in the credits.<P> It's to do with a lack of demand for quality enteretainment from the viewership at large. LOST represents the first time we've actually seen the fucking WRITERS not giving a shit, as opposed to the viewers. As RedJester said, "I went from loving LOST as well as thinking the writers were a couple of semi-geniuses to feeling like the victim of the most intellectually insulting prank ever. Hack writers, hack show."<P> I'm right there with the Jester. But I think the writers were already fucking hacks who didn't give a shit about the "mysteries" of the show - they just did an awesome job of hiding that fact, until the time came to make good on their promises to answer all the questions re LOST, and they fucking choked in a way nobody has since Lucas said to himself, "I wonder what Darth Vader's childhood would look like onscreen?".<P> It's fantastic for me to have guys like you online to just vent to, though. Mrs Spud-To-Be enjoyed the finale on an uncritical emotional level - crying at the ending, all of that - but on rewatching, hated the shit out of it. That said, she's over it now - she's into other shit (loving TRUE BLOOD, though vastly prefers the books to the series, though both are great) and can't quite see why I can't just leave it be and get on watching something else. She also can't see why I'm still incandescent with rage at how fucking awful the STAR WARS Prequels are. It's a lot of negative passion, and she doesn't understand it.<P> Well, this is why: because in a world where so much is going to shit, and where one person's opinion has never counted for so little thanks to the Western ideal of "democracy" (re: "we'll do what the fuck we want, take your money, take your freedom, and tell you to be happy working yourself to death and watching Simon Fucking Cowell programmes from now to eternity"), our one outlet, our escape for all this shit we can't do a thing about, is ENTERTAINMENT. Plainly we're all passionate, because we're all on AICN discussing this stuff. And when something that promises to be as awesome as LOST did in its first season, then throws down a pile of horseshit like the finale - well, that passion we had for LOST is going to turn negative. Why the fuck shouldn't it? And it's very, very notable (the honourable exception of D. Vader aside) that the finale apologists have almost zero fucking basis for their argument, whereas the "haters" have, time and time again, constructed long coherent arguments, arguing in a logical, point-by-point basis, why they so hated the finale, and the fact that we are all huge LOST fans who have turned our love of this show into white-hot rage at how fucking shittily the writers, producers and creators have treated the viewers by expecting us to swallow this shit and be grateful for it.<P> Well, we're not. Hate on, apologists, because you're fucking wrong. You know the finale was shit just as we do - but you're too upset at the thought that they conned YOU, too, to admit this to yourselves. So you keep defending these fucking hack thieves. Well fucking done. You're helping to usher in a new age of mediocrity and stupidity, and it's all your fault for supporting shit like the LOST finale. You're helping us to move into the future Mike Judge showed us in IDIOCRACY, and you aren't even aware of it. Why is it so fucking desirable to be brain-dead all of a sudden? I'm fucking mystified...<P> And RPLocke: it's EKO. E-K-O. If you can't even fucking spell the names of the characters, how can you form a cogent argument to defend yourself with??<P> Cheers for your posts, FOREHEAD. You're a sane man in an insane world.
Aug. 8, 2010, 7:53 a.m. CST
post of yours before, that was directed to me: <P> "That was a great post dude. I think the age of cynicism really began over 10 years ago with The Phantom Menance. Now the years and jaded distaste with the entertainment world makes us cautious and pre-disposed to hate every movie or TV Show or musician that comes along. EVERYTHING is shit. <P> LOST was the Holy Grail. It could have reaffirmed our belief. But in the end it shat the bed and it stank like a mother fucker. Just another disappointment on the ever-growing List of FAIL." <P> But that was fucking SPOT ON man... Couldn't have said it better myself :-) That is EXACTLY how i felt, and STILL feel to this day... That is precisely why it rocked me so fucking hard, when i realized what a wasted opportunity it was. LOST was going to do for TV, what the original Star Wars did for Film... But nope. Darlton had to take a giant, steaming shit all over it. <P> How sad.
Aug. 8, 2010, 8:14 a.m. CST
Wow man, awesome post. I think i'm gonna keep that one for posterity ;-) Seriously though, i am actually keeping record of great posts i see on this website about LOST, copy and pasting them to a word document, like journal entries and shit lol... <P> And there's a lot of great stuff in there to respond to, but it's bedtime for me i'm afraid ;-) But i will say that PASSION is most definitely the key here. And it was obvious in my earlier post, as well as yours that you just made. You cannot argue that we are incredibly passionate about art. And i completely agree with you about having "venting buddies" online lol It's awesome to interact with someone online who is on the exact same fucking wavelength as you, so we can vent and rant, and also share our enthusiasm and admiration too. It's very cathartic in a way... And i'm sure we could have great, deep discussions about Star Wars as well lol. Sounds like you LOATHED the Prequels just as much as i did! And LOST unfortunately became a close 2nd to Star Wars, as BIGGEST FAILURE/LETDOWN in the history of art/media. <P> Well, it's time to hit the sack, but i look forward to future conversations with ya. Peace out Brotha!
Aug. 8, 2010, 8:18 a.m. CST
FUCK YOU RPLOCKE! FUCK YOU RIGHT IN YOUR APOLOGISTIC ASS!!! <P> There, i can go to sleep happy now ;-)
Aug. 8, 2010, 9:04 a.m. CST
Think about what im saying. It was GOOD they didtn answer a lot of stuff. Thats what made the show appeal to ALL of us and why we are all even still talking about it at all. Mystery unresolved and using our minds to imagine what COULD be is WHY the show was so damn interesting. Take it from this girl, thats what kept me watching. Once you have all the answers its done and over and no longer worth caring about. Look at the Prisoner TV show. Over 40 years and its STILL being discussed. Just like my bra size...lol...imagining how big the pups are is MORE FUN than the actual finding out..!!
Aug. 8, 2010, 9:11 a.m. CST
No fucking contest.
Aug. 8, 2010, 9:12 a.m. CST
by Amazing Maurice
Oliver Hague is laughing his ass off.
Aug. 8, 2010, 10:02 a.m. CST
...I'd say the writers played fair and gave us answers. But it was a tacked on segue. The first five seasons was about the island and what it was and THAT is what the finale should have been about it.
Aug. 8, 2010, 10:06 a.m. CST
The creators/writers always planned for it to be "island = purgatory." But too many people figured that out first season. So the writers issued public denials and tried to come up with a different answer, to wit, "island is time experiment with two warring factions." But, again, that became kind of obvious. And the writers had already promised Stephen King what the ending was (purgatory). So they, at the last minute, tried to synthesize everything to give us a "purgatory" ending without breaking their denials. Really, it reminds of nothing so much as DC's "Armageddon" mini-series. It was set up with one ending (Capt. Atom becomes villain Moncarch). But everyone figured it out so they tacked on a different on that came out of left field. And pissed off a lot of people.
Aug. 8, 2010, 10:55 a.m. CST
My girlfriend in def in the camp of hating season 6. I felt it had some greatness and that yes, its the only season that has serious inconsistencies. But I still loved it. I still love that Jack, damned with teh curse of being the show's hero, had the best arc and writing of any main character in a fantasy show (not like he's Vic Mackey or Tony S) but for a straight up good guy, well done writers. Locke is the most tragic character in TV history...Sayid cool number 4 guy...all that, thank you writers. But yeah, season 6 wasn't perfect and across the sea, well it did suck. but I won't hate the show for 4 hours of its 100+ runtime. I will always remember and cherish.
Aug. 8, 2010, 10:57 a.m. CST
Dukie from the Wire is the most tragic character in TV history
Aug. 8, 2010, 11 a.m. CST
DALLAS <p> Similar story, no resolution! <p> But at least the producers always fucked with the audience... back then we enjoyed that! Being slapped in the face by Dallas! <p> Back then...
Aug. 8, 2010, 11:02 a.m. CST
There's no hope here, sadly...
Aug. 8, 2010, 12:50 p.m. CST
You know, Harry Potter is a prime example of how a serial show should be done. SPOILER: I know a lot of people figured out that Harry was a horcrux after book six, but JK was smart and gave us that ending anyway. She was also smart in not giving us that information until late in the series. She did say she almost slipped that info into book two when writing about the Riddle's diary. Either way, HP is a shining example of providing a great, satisfying ending that puts all the pieces together in an entertaining conclusion. Lost was not Harry potter. But then again, JK knew what she was doing before she wrote book one. Darlton had absolutely no idea how to end it until season five and it shows, and it stings even worse because they lied about it.
Aug. 8, 2010, 1:41 p.m. CST
thats all you have LOL??? that fucking idiot?? thats ur HERO?? man, NOW ur ignorant, militant, elitist attitude and posts make sense!!! u are truly as D.E.N.S.E as u claim we "defenders" are lol!! u dumass "rational" intellects are just replacing science for religion. they BOTH require faith u dumbfuck. have i seen or touched an angel...nope. have u ACTUALLY seen or touched a atom...nope u havent. BUT, u have a scientist (your "preacher" so to speak) tell u they exist. u have FAITH that these "invisible" particles are real. religion and science are just different sides of the same coin. they are used to try to explain the UNEXPLAINABLE little man. u just choose the science aspect THATS ALL. and to act as if its the only option is TRULY being obtuse. that the REAL reason u HATE and dont UNDERSTAND Lost. it sided mostly with the SPIRITUAL aspect of the show. AND U (as a militant agnostic/atheist oh im sorry "realist") CANT FUCKING ACCEPT THAT! you didnt get the answers that made sense in ur militant brain so the show must SUCK NOW! you're just exposed now little man and its sad really. im sure u bow before Real Time comes on broheim lol..........BILL FUCKING MAHER?? RELIGULOUS??? LMAO!!!! SERIOUSLY?? WHAT A FUCKING JOKE LOL!!!!!!!
Aug. 8, 2010, 1:57 p.m. CST
Aug. 8, 2010, 3:14 p.m. CST
Some poking fun at the fans, a nice reunion, and some answers - who of course turned out to be entirely inconsequential, and possible to infer from watching the show. <P>Would I like to find out what the "rules" were? Of course. <P>Do I love Lost less because they didn't answer it? No. I'd rather have an intriguing question than a limiting answer. <P>Lost pulled me in with its mystery, but what made the show (still) stand head and shoulders above its ilk is the way the characters were the most engrossing, relatable bunch I've ever seen on this kind of show, and of course that the questions seemed to expand this world simultaneously on a narrative, thematical, philosophical and mythological scale. <P>And that's no mean feat, and anyone who thinks otherwise should get off this talkback and try it themselves.
Aug. 8, 2010, 3:27 p.m. CST
You see Jacob and MIB all of a sudden, and then in Season Six, you only see Jacob for like four episodes, and hardly MIB. I would have got rid of Jacob and kept MIB.
Aug. 8, 2010, 4:07 p.m. CST
I do truely believe that Lost is a thinking show, sure its not for everyone, but the intention of the creators has always been for people to take the pieces and think and debate about it all. But I respect your opinion, if you don't like the second half of the show, to each their own. I'm glad that you do have shows that you like. Personally I have enjoyed Lost, I admit that episodes Stranger in a Strange Land a a lot of the Kate episodes like Eggtown sucked, but I have enjoyed the ride and felt good about the ending. <br> <br> As for the religion offer thanks but I already have one.
Aug. 8, 2010, 4:57 p.m. CST
Yeah, 'cos the whole point of watching a finale to a show that for 6 years has promised to answer its mysteries is to have to read a shelf full of mythology books to infer what the writers meant - particularly when said writers didn't actually infer any of the stuff you think they inferred, but actually just filled the last season and a half with intentionally vague pseudo-mystical bullshit for the apologists to feel all superior about - by spotting inferences, connotations and links to outside mythology that simply ARE NOT THERE - and for the "haters" to call bullshit on, and then get pissed off by.<P> This pitiful piece of DVD-box-set-shilling retcon bullshit further confirms the obvious - the writers weren't smart enough to tie up their own story coherently. Anything you think you know about how it all ties into some over-arching mythology that only you, Darkocity, have managed to divine for yourself, is merely intellectual masturbation on your part. How smug do you feel, sitting there mentally wanking yourself into oblivion saying "I'M the ONLY ONE who knows the TRUTH about the finale of LOST!! AAAAAAHH, feels GOOOOOD!!"?<P> You're the kind of fool who would look at Tracey Emin's unmade bed and actually proclaim it art, rather than what it is: an attention-seeking mediocre sham that rich but stupid art collectors fall over each other to bid for in an effort to appear "hip". This is Emperor's New Clothes (or should that be No Clothes) syndrome, and you are one of that crowd, screaming out how beautiful those non-existent clothes actually are on that Emperor, while Emperor Darlton wanders round stark-bollock naked, knowing that you are seeing shit that isn't there. And laughing at YOU for falling for it. You just keep on with that Dharma kool-aid, friend....
Aug. 8, 2010, 5 p.m. CST
Care to share with the group which magnum opus you have unleashed upon the world, that gives you the right to have an opinion on the finale that apparently you believe the rest of us does not have (at least until we write something as great, right)?
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:14 p.m. CST
So... We "haters" are "lazy", "non-self aware ignorant" and "dumb"? This question should be a doozy for you, then.<P> What EXACTLY is the Smoke Monster??<P> (A) A stupid idea that started as a stomping noise and lots of chains being dragged, to a security system thwarted easily by sonic fences, to a controllable force harnessed by Ben, to a seemingly normal guy who got thrown into a glowy pool of piss and re-emerged a sentient column of smoke still easily thwarted by sonic fences and circles of ash, OR...<P> (B) A guy who got thrown into a pool of glowy piss and emeerged a column of black smoke BY MAGIC! OR...<P> (C) None of the above - but a spectacular answer that Darkocity will now illuminate all our lazy, dumb, non-self-aware ignorant minds with, OR...<P> (D) The worst example of a shitty mystery being changed randomly every season to suit a narrative that had no idea where it was going from the end of the first season to the series' pitiful conclusion.<P> I'm all ears, Darkocity...
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:21 p.m. CST
Great example re JK Rowling and the foreshadowing of the Horcruxes. But then, you're talking about an author who wrote the last chapter of the last book at around the same time she wrote he first book - so the entire seven-book saga was designed to end where it did, with all the plot strands inexorably leading the narrative to that conclusion. <P> Now THAT is how you end a series. DEATHLY HALLOWS was a great book, and a great ending...
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:34 p.m. CST
Deathly Hallows was still good, just not as good as I was expecting it to be.
Aug. 8, 2010, 5:50 p.m. CST
A lot of remember when we met this person or remember when we did this? I felt that both were good at saying goodbye to the various characters that were so great.
Aug. 8, 2010, 6:20 p.m. CST
Such a boring show.
Aug. 8, 2010, 6:23 p.m. CST
Shit, you fuckers don't even know how to spell Widmore.
Aug. 8, 2010, 6:34 p.m. CST
Aug. 8, 2010, 6:51 p.m. CST
I love how funny it is that the "answers" they gave us in this are to the most surface, stupid and unimportant crap in the show...because people are unable to suspend their disbelief and accept that this is a work of fiction, meant for entertainment. Seriously.
Aug. 8, 2010, 7:10 p.m. CST
Aug. 8, 2010, 7:57 p.m. CST
And it dealt with what I presume season 6 aimed for with acceptin death and "wakin up" or whatever the hell...also features a plane crash...it came out 2008
Aug. 8, 2010, 8:36 p.m. CST
I'll let you all ask me one question, but one question only. <p>... And then I'll answer it when I find some time... (been a real busy weekend and it promises to be a real busy week, otherwise I'd be here debating it up with you fine fellows!)
Aug. 8, 2010, 8:37 p.m. CST
But its transferred from a Betamax (sorry).
Aug. 8, 2010, 8:38 p.m. CST
Well, it was the last one I read (coincidentally, how about that?), but I remember enjoying it immensely. Loved all the callbacks to previous books. Much the way I loved all the callbacks to previous seasons during LOST's final run.
Aug. 8, 2010, 8:56 p.m. CST
I want to know the REASON Michael was stuck on the island as a whisper and Sayid and Ben got to go to purgatory-land? Please elaborate because I can't figure it out. Please provide concrete show examples and not your own made up reasons either.
Aug. 8, 2010, 10:40 p.m. CST
Aug. 8, 2010, 11:45 p.m. CST
Well the Flash Sideways were a place that the Losties had somehow created in order to reunite with each other. It was based on the relationships that they had created with each other. Now with Sayid he had created a bond or relationship with Shannon. He also had redeemed himself with his sacrifice on the sub which while it wasn't a complete conversion that and his connection (or Constant) with Shannon allowed Sayid to move on to the place where he could be able to further his redemption process by protecting Nadia, saving Jin and completing his connection or Constant with Shannon. That allowed him into the church. <br> <br> With Ben he had a Father Daughter relationship with Alex that was his Constant. He showed repentance to Illana and she accepted it. He also had years of service and repentance while serving under Hurley on and off the island. So he had time to make peace with himself and with Alex's death and everything else that he did. Now when he moved on he was able to reestablish his connection or constant with Alex through a Teacher Student and later possibly a Step Father/Step daughter relationship. He didn't move on when the Castaways did, because just like Ana Lucia, he still had some repentance to do and he still had to reestablish his connection/Connstant with Alex probably through marrying Danielle. <br> <br> As for Michael while off island he had pretty much severed his connection/Connstant with Walt by telling him about what he had done to escape the island and with exception of Sun and Jin on the Frieghter, he didn't get the chance to be forgiven and reestablish the connection/Constant with the rest of the Castaways. So because he didn't have that he wasn't allowed to move on and that was the reason why Ben and Hurley recruited Walt to come back to the island in order to give his Father the chance to be forgiven and to reestablish the connection/Constant with his in order to move on. As for why Michael and Walt weren't in the church never of them had had the chance to reestablish a connection/Constant with them. So most likely when the finally did move on and arrive in the Flash Sideways Michael just like Ben wasn't ready to enter the church. So Michael Walt probably finished that and eventually were able to go into the light where hopefully even though they hadn't entered at the same time were able to meetup with the rest and reestablish a connection/Constant.
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:07 a.m. CST
just wished it would enlighten others broheim...
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:28 a.m. CST
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:34 a.m. CST
feels like OLD TIMES brotha...
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:48 a.m. CST
He hasn't redeemed himself while being alive... but he's not been just a whisper...
Aug. 9, 2010, 1:10 a.m. CST
Well from what little we did see it seemed like maybe Ghost Christian was able to visit with Jack while Jack was off island and a connection/Constant was estabished there?
Aug. 9, 2010, 1:11 a.m. CST
Aug. 9, 2010, 1:26 a.m. CST
with the established tabloid at the end... <p> Hence my problems with The End. <p> But thx anyway for trying, Pa. <p> I guess, we are the only ones on either side of the fence, who don't attack each other, respect each other's opinion/answer/question/insight. It's great to have you still in the TB's here. <p> But I peek from time to time to your blog, of course! Nicely done with the watchback answers, but I also see, you have there problems also with answering questions sometimes. There are a lot of "probably"s...
Aug. 9, 2010, 1:56 a.m. CST
(make it SO # 1!!) but, alas, hes wrong. no biggie riker (and thanks for lookin on the blog) but, ur wrong. u just dont (as i HATE to say it) GET IT broheim...
Aug. 9, 2010, 1:57 a.m. CST
"Care to share with the group which magnum opus you have unleashed upon the world, that gives you the right to have an opinion on the finale that apparently you believe the rest of us does not have (at least until we write something as great, right)?" <P>That's not what I said, but I can see that maybe I didn't get my intended meaning across. Sorry. Of course everyone is entitled to have an opinion on the show, you are free to like or dislike it, or claim this and that was of poor quality, but it's quite a leap to go from that to "I could have done better". IMO, to claim that "anyone can write a show like Lost if the mysteries don't have to come together", which I've seen a lot of TBers claim here and on other TBs, is an asinine claim, and just proves that they don't know what they're talking about. If anyone could, then why don't they?
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:23 a.m. CST
u cant UNteach a idiot brotha. he's ALL IN in his "definition" of Lost. he cant help it broheim...
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:39 a.m. CST
Yes, it's spud who is the idiot. Obviously. <p><p>Spud has rationally explained the problems with the finale to you who defend the finale, but you all seem intent on ignoring any criticism thereof. You don't refute his points. My personal belief is a lot of you are religious and like the ending no matter how inorganic and out of left field it is.
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:47 a.m. CST
It's only August, but JAY2517 has officially written the most IGNORANT post on AICN of 2010. No way this will ever be matched: <P> "thats all you have LOL??? that fucking idiot?? thats ur HERO?? man, NOW ur ignorant, militant, elitist attitude and posts make sense!!! u are truly as D.E.N.S.E as u claim we "defenders" are lol!! u dumass "rational" intellects are just replacing science for religion. they BOTH require faith u dumbfuck. have i seen or touched an angel...nope. have u ACTUALLY seen or touched a atom...nope u havent. BUT, u have a scientist (your "preacher" so to speak) tell u they exist. u have FAITH that these "invisible" particles are real. religion and science are just different sides of the same coin. they are used to try to explain the UNEXPLAINABLE little man. u just choose the science aspect THATS ALL. and to act as if its the only option is TRULY being obtuse. that the REAL reason u HATE and dont UNDERSTAND Lost. it sided mostly with the SPIRITUAL aspect of the show. AND U (as a militant agnostic/atheist oh im sorry "realist") CANT FUCKING ACCEPT THAT! you didnt get the answers that made sense in ur militant brain so the show must SUCK NOW! you're just exposed now little man and its sad really. im sure u bow before Real Time comes on broheim lol..........BILL FUCKING MAHER?? RELIGULOUS??? LMAO!!!! SERIOUSLY?? WHAT A FUCKING JOKE LOL!!!!!!!" <P> Wow, first off... CAPS LOCK MUCH? And 2nd... did you honestly just compare ANGELS to... fucking ATOMS?!? And i need FAITH in SCIENCE? What in the name of holy fuck is wrong with you child? You just absolutely KILLED any of the microscopic credibility you had. Let me guess, you think evolution is just a THEORY, right? LMAO What a fucking clown. See guys, it's people like THIS, that i could never have any respect for. What a complete and utter ignoramus. And talking shit about Bill Maher? That's fucking hilarious. Let me guess Jay, your idols include Bill O' Reilly... Sarah Palin... George W. Bush... am i getting "warm"?? <P> Fuckin' crackpot, this guy is... lol
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:50 a.m. CST
You are one of the most IRRATIONAL, ILLOGICAL, HYPERACTIVE, CHILDISH, IGNORANT, STUBBORN, CLOSE-MINDED FOOLS i have EVER come across on the internet... And that's saying A LOT. I think you seriously need help man. Are you schizophrenic by any chance? Maybe a little Bi-polar? What's up man... talk to me
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:53 a.m. CST
Us so called "haters" actually take the time to EXPLAIN ourselves and examine art in an objective and rational manner. The apologists, like RPlocke, Jay, and Darkocity just hurl personal attacks and insults and don't back there shit up AT ALL. It's extremely obvious to any unbiased 3rd party, that the "haters" are winning this battle. It's not even fucking close lol
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:58 a.m. CST
I guessed you missed the earlier posts from me where i fucking DESTROYED RPLocke, talking about Lost. I proved how much i know about the fucking show, and how LITTLE he does. It was fucking laughable. So please explain to me Mr. Jay... how someone like me, who CLEARLY knows more about lost than YOU, RPLOCKE, DARKOCITY, or any other DUMBFUCK apologist, comes to the conclusion that LOST fucking fell apart in the end, ruining a once great show. And people who don't know SHIT, like YOU, RPLOCKE, DARKOCITY, etc. end up LOVING it and eating up all the bullshit thrown at you from the great Darlton... Hhhhmmmm, sounds to me like IGNORANCE leads to ACCEPTANCE and SATISFACTION... whereas RATIONAL THOUGHT, OBJECTIVE CRITIQUE, LOGIC, lead to DISSAPOINTMENT, and FRUSTRATION. Interesting... <P> How about you try and retort THAT you fucking worthless piece of human excrement.
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:04 a.m. CST
If you would be kind enough to oblige me... How old are you? Where do you live? If by some chance you are actually OVER the age of 14, what is it that you... do exactly? Like, for a job? And please confirm my suspicions that you are a christian. Cool beans? Brooooooheim? <P> *snicker*
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:06 a.m. CST
I'm also guessing that you look like the main character from "Balls of Fury". You know, that fat hairy guy? I think he was in "Fanboys" too... That is EXACTLY how i'm picturing you. Please confirm this as well, if you could. <P> Gracias!
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:19 a.m. CST
The Flash sideways was ultimately pointless. There was no rationale for the whole Desmond awakening.
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:21 a.m. CST
I'm having a difficult time determining who the bigger fucking IDIOT is between you and jay. Christ on a fucking stick... <P> "And i get Lost. Im sorry but i can clearly see people having a problem with the show just because they dont know their background mythology/history, amongst other things. I would honestly point out alot of books - local to me at least - that would help spell it out for you lazy fuck wads but i don't want your cancerous opinions spreading into that based on some less complex criticism that just shocks me with its dumbness or anything from willing to non-self-aware ignorance of some fundamentals. Don't rip on a show with your lazy pompous mindset cos you cant be fucked to really try and understand its 'cultural' and 'mythological' heritage that it sources from and plays with, thats just obnoxious and sad. I'm not even going to bother to replies along the lines of "I know the mythology and legends and fairytales its mining and i still thought it was a crock of-" Fuck off, ignorant tit bag, you know nothing." <P> Holy shit man. That was fucking INCOMPREHENSIBLE. Which was confirmed on the next post, by jay, who said "PREACH IT (LOL) DARKO!" Christ there's TWO of them now... they are multiplying! lol And please translate this nonsensical gibberish: <P> "non-self-aware ignorance of some fundamentals" <P> LMAO Did you just pull out some random words that you've heard before that you thought may make you sound "intelligent"? Well, if you did... it fucking FAILED. <P> Guys, seriously... it's fucking imbeciles like Darkocity and Jay, that reinforce my belief that only MORONS liked the way lost ended. The only 2 (or 1.5) exceptions i've found so far are D.Vader and Paburrows. <P> Good lord... "Dumbness"? <P> *snicker*
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:34 a.m. CST
for the somewhat sane post of yours. It's a nice change of pace ;-) <P> "I do truely believe that Lost is a thinking show, sure its not for everyone, but the intention of the creators has always been for people to take the pieces and think and debate about it all. But I respect your opinion, if you don't like the second half of the show, to each their own. I'm glad that you do have shows that you like. Personally I have enjoyed Lost, I admit that episodes Stranger in a Strange Land a a lot of the Kate episodes like Eggtown sucked, but I have enjoyed the ride and felt good about the ending. As for the religion offer thanks but I already have one." <P> That was my biggest problem with the end of Lost, man. It DID start out as a thinking show. That's precisely why i liked it so much. Like i said before, Season 1 was the best fucking season of TV ever created (which is debatable, but it is my personal favorite). It was thought provoking, subtle, ambiguous (in all the right ways...), creative, ambitious, etc. I fell madly in love with it, as many others did. But to say that, at the end of the 6th season... that it was the exact same show, would just be fucking ridiculous. It was stupid, blunt, heavy-handed, contrived, convenient, convoluted, simplistic and worst of all... BORING. You simply cannot ignore the severe drop off in quality from the first season. That is, unless you don't really appreciate what made Lost so good in teh first place... which is my theory on all of the supposed "Lost defenders". They never actually "got it" to begin with! That's the fuckin' irony here lol. They don't have any idea what "good writing" is, or good acting/cinematography/production design/storytelling, etc... So of course those people aren't going to be dissapointed. They don't have an objective or critical mind. They don't have standards. Hence, the attitude that "it's all good, yo! Every season is teh AWESOMEZ!!11!! Cuz it's all LOST, which is the greatest thing EVAAARRRR!!" <P> This would be something that Darkocity or jay would type, so i'm not calling Paburrows an idiot or anything... lol But i think that's what it comes down to. 'Cause trust me, i know the fucking show inside and out. I'm not "confused" about anything. And yes, Darkocity, i'm well read too. I read books. I know my Mythology. So that's a fucking empty argument if i ever saw one. <P> Sorry fucker, try again.
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:40 a.m. CST
"As for the religion offer thanks but I already have one." <P> I figured as much. Hence the SARCASM... ;-) And i would assume your christian, which would support my hypothesis about religious minded people being the ones who enjoyed the final season of lost. And again, it doesn't have anything to do with the religious overtones of the show. It's the "thought process" (if you could call it that lol) of religious folk, that mirrors what the "thought process" of a lost apologist would be. They are EERILY similar. Arguments based on subjective experience, bias, making connections where there really aren't any, anti-logic, disregard for facts, etc. It's all so similar...
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:52 a.m. CST
In typing this, i'm probably overestimating your reading comprehension skills... but FUCK IT, i'll bite. Here's a relatively short, concise, examination of religion, and how it differs from the rationalist (or scientific) mind... (And a quick heads up for Jay, as he is obviously mentally deficient... this post is absolutely DRENCHED in sarcasm...) <P> Religion is absolutely on par with science. No difference AT ALL. Religion is just as valid an option as science is, no doubt! Evidence? HOGWASH! Who needs THAT? How about blind acceptance and INTUITION. Yeah baby, that's what i'm talking about! Who needs FACTS, based on observation and the scientific method... Gimme Religion! Yeah, 'cause religion is most definitely NOT a crutch for the weak-minded... nor is it intellectually and emotionally LAZY. Nope, not at all! It absolutely is NOT manipulative, man-made, nonsensical hogwash. It's as completely valid and reasonable as scientific inquiry! Gee, of course... what was i thinking?! I mean, let the people "choose" to belong to a religion and take the easy way out... to seek phony, undeserved "comfort" to cope with the fear and anxiety of the unknown/death, etc... Instead of facing their fears head on and confront them, ultimately resulting in acceptance... which would lead to personal growth, and a more reasonable/rational view of reality. Yeah, i mean, why should we encourage people to USE THEIR MINDS, and come to their OWN CONCLUSIONS about nature/reality/existence, etc. That would be, as the oh-so-clever Charles Barkley would say.... "Tuuuuuurrrrrible". <P> Jay, this is probably the most insightful thing you will ever read lol. Try and take just a moment... and actually COMPREHEND what i wrote. Break it down. Get out your dictionary... sit down, and really READ it. You may just learn a few things... <P> Get back to me broheim! (that is, if your brain doesn't implode)
Aug. 9, 2010, 4 a.m. CST
PABURROWS... is this you, on youtube from comic-con? <P> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jlq857fKDI <P> I'm not making fun, i'm just curious...
Aug. 9, 2010, 4:05 a.m. CST
JAY you fucking goober... is this you? <P> http://www.blogger.com/profile/09754657518943782745 <P> I mean, is this YOU in the pic? <P> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iFGb_H5asDQ/S3XyXWgJDHI/AAAAAAAAAAM/XEiQmFhXbyQ/S220-h/100_1177.JPG <P> Dude, this is so fuckin' YOU! LMAO Look at his blog on February 12th, 2010: <P> "I HATE TROLLS!!!! lol" <P> But he doesn't seem to say "Broheim" any where on his blog... <P> hhhmmmm, some further investigation is needed...
Aug. 9, 2010, 4:08 a.m. CST
http://www.myspace.com/jay2517 <P> God i hope this one's yours... <P> Nice wallpaper lol
Aug. 9, 2010, 4:11 a.m. CST
http://www.youtube.com/user/jay2517#p/u/22/CoIzfw40Lag <P> This is fucking fun lol
Aug. 9, 2010, 4:15 a.m. CST
http://profiles.friendster.com/jay2517 <P> Please... PLEASE for the love of GOD, tell me this is you. <P> My life will be complete.
Aug. 9, 2010, 4:21 a.m. CST
Check out this post from the Room23 forums: <P> http://room23.freeforums.org/episode-6-14-air-date-may-4-t21-30.html <P> "im just joking which is very hard to do over the net (just ask Pa when i faked logged on as lostboytexass LOL!!!). so dont take anything i say personally lol. i joke ALL the time off the net too. i was trying to be funny because all the trolls think im a Lost fanatic and the show can do no wrong. Rizz and i are pretty good AICN tb friends so i guess they thought i would start "calling him out" because he doesnt like certain aspects of the show. i have no prob with that (i mean, WHY should I really???) because he states his dislikes ONCE and thats it. the prob i have with those FUKWADS over there is THEY DRONE ON AND ON about the same "complaints". say it once and move on to OTHER topics ya know?? i like (or LURVE as Faux would say) everyone here with the exception of Vikki...FUCK that pedophile supporter broheim(s)..." <P> This guy is absolutely certifiable. What a manic spazz this guys is... lol <P> I think i've wasted enough time with this mental midget ;-)
Aug. 9, 2010, 5:09 a.m. CST
To Darkocity and Jay: The one indisputable FACT here on this talkback is this: My calm, rational, objective, well thought out post titled "Spud_Mcspud fucking nailed it" exhibited a higher level of intelligence and cognitive ability than either of you fuckwits could ever achieve in your miserable lives. (you could also throw Spud_mcspud's response to my post, in here too as an example of an insightful, articulate post) All i see in your silly posts are abundant spelling errors, bad grammar, sentence fragments, misused words, inane ramblings, personal insults and attacks, a genuine lack of knowledge about the show that we are discussing, and a complete disregard for logic. You fools could only DREAM to be able to express your feelings in such a thoughtful and articulate manner. That's why your "opinions" will never be respected by ANYONE. <P> So i really, TRULY hope, that somewhere deep down, you 2 realize just how fucking stupid you are, and how utterly WORTHLESS you douchebags are as human beings... Because, as they say, admitting you have a problem is the first step towards fixing it. Peace out my bitches! <P> Here it is again, for anyone to lazy to look it up: <P> "Yeah, i love how the term "hater" keeps getting thrown around. Yet, we know EVERY FUCKING DETAIL about the show! Hhhhmmmm, that's weird... I wonder why that is? Well, folks like RPlocke, if they actually THOUGHT about it for a fucking second without getting all hyper-defensive and shit, would probably realize that all these so called "haters" were once HUGE FANS of the show! In fact, they were probably BIGGER fans than the manic and simple minded apologists. We loved the show for the RIGHT reasons. That's why we respect early lost so much (mainly season 1, but through the season 3 finale, the series' final highpoint...) However, due to our LOVE and ADMIRATION for the show, as it started to run off the tracks a bit, we stuck with it. We wanted to give the showrunners the BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT... so we kept fucking watching. We watched it all the way through the end, as any respectable fan SHOULD have done. And when it was over, the smart, caring, rational-minded fans simply HAD to come to the terrible conclusion that Lost COMPLETELY FUCKING DERAILED. There is no possible way for a true fan of ART, with any artistic integrity to come away feeling any different. If you love and respect quality art, and you are intellectually honest with yourself, you have no other option than to absolutely HATE what the once brilliant LOST had become. Not only SHOULD you "hate" it... you should freely express yourself as such. Lindelof and Cuse MUST be held accountable for their actions. In this case, destroying a once phenomenal show... <P> Likewise, any sane, reasonable person with any sort of artistic integrity would also despise other EPIC FAILURES such as: The Star Wars Prequels, the Matrix Sequels, Terminator 3, Alien Resurrection, Spiderman 3, X-Men 3, etc... (All of these films, like Lost, suffer from the exact same film-making/storytelling problems, which we can get into if anyone isn't clear about them...) If you don't absolutely LOATHE these films than i cannot respect your "opinions" on art, or honestly, respect you as a human being. It's that simple. We so called "haters" do, in fact, posess more "hate" than you... Additionally, we also have more LOVE than you as well. Our admiration and respect for truly great works of art are more REAL and GENUINE than you will ever know. Conversely, our HATE and DISRESPECT for such atrocities will be greater than yours too. <P> It all comes down to PASSION. We have MORE PASSION than you do, at least in terms of art. So you go "enjoy" everything you watch or do, and not "hate" on anything, and enjoy your miserable little ZOMBIE-LIKE existence. I, for one, LOVE to be passionate. Love, HATE, and all that comes with it :-) <P> Yeah, but anyway, we're just "haters"... We got nothing better to do than "hate" on shit. 'Cause we just LOVE to be angry. Yup, THAT'S it. Let me go satisfy my hateful urge and go pop in season 1 of lost on DVD, and love EVERY FUCKING SINGLE FRAME of it. I'll laugh, cry, be fully engaged, and filled with wonder and awe while i watch that brilliant first season. Yup, TOTAL HATER right here... <P> So to all you APOLOGISTS, and to those that throw around the word "hater" every chance they get, i ask you to really consider all these points i just made. Really COMPREHEND this shit, as it may just cause you to pull your HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS, and understand where we are coming from... And maybe, eventually, you will be lucky enough to become "enlightened" just like the rest of us." <P> Read that shit again, and tell me i'm an idiot, or a "troll"... I fuckin' dare ya. <P> (I expect the same empty, shallow, uninsightful drivel from these 2 clowns, or maybe just a simple one word, or one sentence "retort"...) <P> Prove me wrong, will ya fellas?
Aug. 9, 2010, 7:31 a.m. CST
for those types of answers or asking thos types of questions, then you're the same type of person who tries not to walk on cracks in the pavement. Thank god none of that minutia was placed in any regular episode. Talk about overkill. I have a question. What was used as the main location for the Losties to take a dump?
Aug. 9, 2010, 8:26 a.m. CST
"There is no possible way for a true fan of ART, with any artistic integrity to come away feeling any different. If you love and respect quality art, and you are intellectually honest with yourself, you have no other option than to absolutely HATE what the once brilliant LOST had become. Not only SHOULD you "hate" it... you should freely express yourself as such. Lindelof and Cuse MUST be held accountable for their actions. In this case, destroying a once phenomenal show..." <P>***<P>You may not be a troll, or an idiot, but you sure as hell are naïve about "art". <P>Do you seriously mean what you are saying here? That the qualities of art are objective? That there's only one valid interpretation of any work of art? Or does that just go for Lost? Furthermore, Lindelof or Cuse don't owe you, me, or any of us anything.<P>"If you don't absolutely LOATHE these films than i cannot respect your "opinions" on art, or honestly, respect you as a human being."<P>(...)<P>"It all comes down to PASSION."<P>***<P>That's not passion. That's immaturity. You come off as some sort of totalitaritan culture-nazi. I realize there are a lot of fools on the other side of the argument (what you call the apologists), but you're not doing your side any favours either by saying anyone who disagrees with you are bad human beings. <P>Cheers :)
Aug. 9, 2010, 8:45 a.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...hey yourself! Hope all is good. <p> You know, whether you're someone who loved Lost but hated the end or loved it to the very last thump, I think we can all agree on one thing. <p> No, probably not. <p> Oh well.
Aug. 9, 2010, 8:45 a.m. CST
I respect your point, but there is a limit to the subjectivity of art. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and each has his/her own tastes. I agree with the following excerpt from Roger Ebert. It is from Ebert's blog defense against the criticism he received for panning Transformers 2: <p><p>So let's focus on those who seriously believe "Transformers" is one of the year's best films. Are these people wrong? Yes. They are wrong. I am fond of the story I tell about Gene Siskel. When a so-called film critic defended a questionable review by saying, "after all, it's opinion," Gene told him: "There is a point when a personal opinion shades off into an error of fact. When you say 'The Valachi Papers' is a better film than 'The Godfather,' you are wrong."
Aug. 9, 2010, 8:46 a.m. CST
Apologies for the abrupt rudeness of my post back to you - I'd been on at "broheim" Jay and Darkocity most of the day, so my tolerance level was all maxed out. You've been clear, concise and polite, so sorry for my sarcasm-laden retort.<P> You're right in that your post DID come across as you saying we had to be the creators of something spectacular before we could comment, but your post today totally refuted that, and did it with style - so I'll agree to disagree with you, no hard feelings (hopefully) ;D<P> I'm fine with people enjoying the finale on a purely emotional level - yes, I did have something in my eye when the Losties all met up in the church - but five minutes after the credits, I was spitting bile over the fact t6hat they lied to us about the fact that LOST was going to have its mysteries answered. These lunatic apologists that LOWES-FOREHEAD and myself have been rebutting all week are conveniently forgetting that - UNLIKE shows such as THE PRISONER and TWIN PEAKS - one of the things that made LOST different from other shows featuring weirdness in them was that LOST's creators PROMISED, repeatedly in interviews, advertising and other media, to ANSWER what the island was and how it worked. What we got was half-assed bullshit. Sorry, but it was. The Jacob/MIB thing - WTF?? So Jacob throws MIB into the glowy pool of piss and he comes out as Smokey, but when Desmond AND Jack both end up in there, they DON'T? HUH?? The answer to this isn't another of the infamous shifting "Rules", but rather that having MIB be Smokey was a half-assed way to answer one of the finest mysteries the show had built over 6 years (and how many of the apologists can honestly say they were satisfied with what Smokey was eventually revealed to be?). Smokey was MIB, because they couldn't be bothered to come up with something else. They failed to explain why a magic was-a-man-but-now-is-Smokey thing would be repelled by sonic fences (which makes sense if Smokey were either a swarm of nanobots or the security system they'd been pushing Smokey as since S2) or, indeed, why MIB became Smokey but no-one else in the pool had been. Because THERE IS NO ANSWER. It's not been thought through. It's bullshit.<P> This kind of half-baked bollocks is what separates decent writing from shit writing. Too much of the last two seasons of LOST were made up on the fly, unrelated to what the answers were going to be in the first two seasons or so, and it showed. Badly.<P> The final dead giveaway is two fold - Firstly, that pathetic effort at retconning that they've included on the DVD, and the fact that fans such as have to write their own mythology in order to explain away the massive discrepancies left by the writers in the finale. Why do they have to do this? Not because there's some huge, overarching mythology that the writers just hinted at - but because the writers got paid, laid and high in the shade, and wrote this half-assed bullshit to give people like Darkocity the chance to beat themselves off in a darkened room over how much smarter they are than those of us who "don't get it", when in actual fact, there's fuck-all to get. Darlton is the Emperor in No Clothes, and Jay (broheim!!), Darkocity and the others are too busy telling the Emperor how much his new clothes rock that they daren't admit to themselves that they can see - like LOWES and myself - that Darlton is bare-ass fucking naked. It's bullshit. IT'S ALL BULLSHIT.
Aug. 9, 2010, 8:47 a.m. CST
I believe you can enjoy the finale, but that does not remove all it's flaws and if you believe the finale was not flawed, you are simply wrong.
Aug. 9, 2010, 8:48 a.m. CST
In all seriousness... what the FUCK is a "broheim"?? DUUUUUUUUDDDE!!!
"yes, I did have something in my eye when the Losties all met up in the church - but five minutes after the credits, I was spitting bile over the fact that they lied to us about the fact that LOST was going to have its mysteries answered" Hear, Hear.
Aug. 9, 2010, 8:57 a.m. CST
establishes internal rules, sticks to those rules, and has the story play out within those rules. See how JK Rowling establishes magic in the HARRY POTTER books. There are clearly defined rules, and they are not broken. Good writing makes you feel as if you are uncovering a world that was always there, rather than reading something someone made up.<P> Bad writing repeatedly breaks any establishing rules within its own world, because there is no internal logic. Witness how nonsensical Stephanie Meyer is when she ascribes each vampire in TWILIGHT with a different power, for no good reason other than to get them out of some horribly contrived situation that was written specifically for the power that the vampire had. It's stupid, it's bullshit and it's nonsensical. And it is the essence of bad writing.<P> The last two seasons of LOST, and DEFINITELY the finale, are far closer to TWILIGHT than they are to HARRY POTTER in terms of narrative, internal plot coherence and all-round quality of writing...
Aug. 9, 2010, 9:15 a.m. CST
I conclude was Widmore's science team members. They had outriggers on Hydra. They saw John Locke and company appear in one of their outriggers. I conclude they thought time traveling John Locke was the Man in Black and started shooting at him. Juliet shoots back and kills one of them.
Aug. 9, 2010, 9:52 a.m. CST
you can assume the outrigger scene is Widmore, Zoe and some redshirts travelling to the main island from the Hydra. In fairness, they did intend to show this scene I read, but it was never shot. As for art being subjective, of course it is. However in the case of Transormers, there is an argument to be made that its just not art, rather 2 1/2 hours of marketing. <P><P>Of all the things to say about LOST, it does at least TRY (admittedly fail IMO) to elevate itself above the typical humdrum of network TV. Oh and Spud McSpud, I agree with much of what you say, but don't hold up JK - "Harry said coldly" Rowling as an example of good writing.
Aug. 9, 2010, 9:53 a.m. CST
In fact I liked to compare with a painting that's beautiful. <p> Beautiful but somehow unfinished. Me not liking the red spot in the right bottom corner for instance. That doesn't mean I HATE the whole painting, I'm just confused about that little spot, that doesn't seem to fit. <p> As with the whole... maybe the spot was intended, maybe the artist wanted to create something great down there but left it unfinished, because of its beauty itself, or just the imagination of its beauty, but said: Enough is enough! <p> Doesn't ruin the paiting for me, just doesn't seem to fit within the whole... <p> Hope I made myself clear enough... <p> Some people here LOVE that spot - let them! Even if it's maybe (for real) just some spilled paint never corrected... <p> And I shall say, don't accuse Cuse and Lindelof for what they didn't, love them for what they did. <p> As always, the DVD sells will tell, if they did right or wrong for themselves... or ABC! <p> I'd say, 99% right! <p> Give me a f$%&§ TV MOVIE about JUST THE ISLAND! The 12 Minutes proved, it could be done! Give it a fine (and cheaper cast) and resolve the bloody island's story! <p> The LOSTIES story is told!
Aug. 9, 2010, 10:26 a.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
I don't think I've ever agreed with two people more. Well said and well played. Thanks.
Aug. 9, 2010, 10:27 a.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
Ah, I remember the '90s, too.
Aug. 9, 2010, 10:29 a.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
The script for "The End." Then they just filmed it and put it on air.
Aug. 9, 2010, 10:32 a.m. CST
and they fucking answered the one question I wanted answering!!!!!!!
Aug. 9, 2010, 10:36 a.m. CST
Q: What's the difference between a polar bear? <p>A: One of his legs are both the same.<p>what to do? I'm so conflicted ಠಠ
Aug. 9, 2010, 10:52 a.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
You guys are getting excited about that? Come on now. That shit happens like once a day. In practically every fucking talkback.<p>I mean, seriously, this guy (who defends Lost) can't get shit right ever. D. Vader had to correct him about twenty times in the last talkback. He's constantly posting shit like "Dang, Iron Man 2 dropping like a rock at the box office. It wont even be around in a few weeks. James Cameron must be laughing his ass off." on the WEDNESDAY after Iron Man 2 premiered!<p>Come to think of it. You'd think RPLocke getting PWNED would get old. But really, I guess not. That shit never gets old.
Aug. 9, 2010, 10:57 a.m. CST
one day he watched 'A History of Violence' and it stuck with him. This is because he is a retard. a gay retard.
Aug. 9, 2010, 11:08 a.m. CST
...I got this mental image of Duuuude2517 being like a rotund short ass version of Bodhi from POINT BREAK, yet without the charisma, friends, and with way more acne.<P> Am I close??
Aug. 9, 2010, 11:15 a.m. CST
i saw a pic of him when he first started trolling here and before he deleted some website accounts. think jersey shore meets redneck. if you google jay2517 you'll see some old guy has the same username so he pretends to be that guy. the guy wears Ed Hardy for fuck sake. he's not even a used car salesman like people think. probably works in a fast food joint, thats my guess
Aug. 9, 2010, 11:32 a.m. CST
by Thunderbolt Ross
If you thought it was good, great, ok, shitty, pathetic, inexcusable, amazing, whatever. It's your opinion. That's just how it works.
Aug. 9, 2010, 11:54 a.m. CST
I mean, it was a fine attempt. But it still doesn't make any sense. A constant had to do with time travel and time doesn't exist in sideways. Also, Faraday had Desmond for a constant, so Faraday should have been there at the church, no? Also, last I checked, Michael did do a bit of redemption, which was coming back to the island and sacrificing himself to a bomb on the freighter, which, last I checked, is kinda similar to Sayid's storyline. I'm not sure how Michael's connection to Walt was any different than say, Charlie's connection to Claire, but whatever. Also, How come Sayid's soul connection person is Shannon and not Nadia. I mean, when Locke offered to give him anything, he wanted Nadia back. Also, I love how you used the word 'somehow' in the first part of your answer. I also love how I present concrete show examples and you do not.
Aug. 9, 2010, noon CST
“there is a limit to the subjectivity of art” <P>Maybe, but it sure as hell isn’t easy to determine where that is. Greater minds than you and I have tried and failed. <P>***<P>I followed Ebert’s Transformers 2 debate, and of course, I am wholly on Ebert’s side on that one, but if you want to have a proper discourse, the Siskel quote isn’t excactly fruitful. The problem with the T2:RotF debate was that there were no proper arguments pro Transformers, as far as I could remember. It all amounted to “Fuck u ebert, u r old & don’t get that giant robots are teh shit!” It would be interesting to see someone who actually think that RotF is the best movie ever made, make a proper argument for why they think so. <P>Still, I do think it’s unfair to equate RotF with Lost, simply because RotF, as Goldiberg said here, had absolutely no artistic aspirations whatsoever. Say what you will about the ending of Lost, but if Darlton just wanted to make something without artistic aspirations, I think season 6 would have chosen a lot safer storyline and denouement. They had every opportunity to play safe and just land the show in a pedestrian fashion, but instead they chose something they believed in, even though they knew it would enrage a lot of fans. Did their ambition succeed? That’s open for debate, but at least there was ambition, and to say otherwise is unfair, IMO. <P>***<P> ”if you believe the finale was not flawed, you are simply wrong.” <P>I agree, but it doesn’t automatically follow that Lost is a failure just because it has flaws or ended on a bad note. That depends on what your criteria for a show’s success are, and those criteria are subjective, not universal, especially when you’re dealing with a show that’s as ambitious, innovative and sprawling as Lost. It is, after all, very difficult to compare to other shows.
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:30 p.m. CST
No offence taken ☺<P> I can see why you are dissapointed. It’s hard for me to know if I would have felt like you had I gone through the same thing, because my experience of Lost has been very different from yours. I started out watching the first two seasons back to back on DVD, then (ahem) ”borrowed” the rest of the seasons from the internet as the episodes aired. I don’t live in the states, so I’ve never been exposed to ABC’s marketing campaigns, and since I’ve tried to stay as spoiler-free as possible, I’ve avoided Darlton-interviews etc as well. That means that pretty much every expectation I’ve had about the show, I got from the show itself, and not from external sources. And as far as I can tell, the show itself never promised me this was all planned from the beginning, or that we would get the answers to everything etc. <P>In the recent years, I’ve become more and more convinced that a ”work of art” (or any cultural product) should be experienced on its own terms, ie that anything not inherent in the work itself is irrelevant (or maybe even detrimental) to my experience of it. So TPTB promised everything would be answered? I close my ears to that. Unless the show said so, it is of no consequence. <P>I’m not trying to come off as superior here, it’s just as much luck as anything else that I wasn’t exposed to all the marketing and soundbites. But I do think you may be doing yourself a huge disservice when you put too much stock into what the creators say about their show. They are often either untruthful just to be coy and create an expectation, or they just plain don’t understand their own work. (Have you listened to the director’s commentary on Donnie Darko? And seen Kelly’s director’s cut? He completely doesn’t get his own movie). But Darlton did themselves a disservice too, by not letting the show speak for itself. It did backfire on them, as did ABC’s marketing, apparently (of course, TV Channels are morons, as we all know).
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:50 p.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
I could care less. I find that shit WAY less important than what he says. He could be a horribly disfigured urinal cleaner with a predilection for ejaculating in watermelons and I wouldn't give a shit AS LONG AS HE HAD SOMETHING INTERESTING AND INTELLIGENT TO SAY. Conversely, he could be Brad Fucking Pitt with a trust fund and a Lear jet full of big-tittied porn stars and it wouldn't matter, based on the way he says shit around here. He flatly refuses to be civil in a conversation as far as Lost is concerned. Not sure I've run into him anywhere else on any other topic, but Lost is enough. I don't care what he looks like or what his job is or what clothes he wears - he's ass enough around here that none of that matters. IMHO.
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:51 p.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
The idea of a short, fat, pimply Ed Hardy wearing Brodhi is fucking hilarious!
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:55 p.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
Try to bring back an old "catch phrase," dig deeper than the fucking '90s please. I don't know. Go for that '20s/'30s "what the rumpus" phrase. Or maybe use "aces" a lot or, I don't know, try to talk like you're from Victorian England or a 1930s screwball comedy or a 1940s war pic. But "broheim?" What the fuck is that about? Let the word have a proper burial for a bit before you dig it up and parade it around; the stench is horrendous.
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:57 p.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
And a one... and a two...
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:58 p.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:58 p.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:59 p.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
We're not worthy!
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:59 p.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
Sit on it!
Aug. 9, 2010, 12:59 p.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
Kiss my grits!
Aug. 9, 2010, 1 p.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
For me to poop on!
Aug. 9, 2010, 1 p.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
Where's the beef?
Aug. 9, 2010, 1:02 p.m. CST
by The Bicycle Sharer
That there's a veritable gold mine of lost catch phrases that you could choose from. Why not expand your horizons just a bit? Oh, oh! Isn't that special? Or... sock it to me! Or... is that your final answer? Or... BAM!
Aug. 9, 2010, 1:15 p.m. CST
Darlton may be done with it, but ABC isn't finished with it. "LOST: The Movie" coming soon! (you know it will happen!)
Aug. 9, 2010, 1:33 p.m. CST
u and cowardBOYtexass should plan a road trip. u fuckers have the same "feelings" towards me. not that theres anything WRONG with that mind u. btw was my religion and science comparison to over ur head? or was it that the TRUTH hurts? i could tell because of ur "calm, rational, objective(HA!), well thought out(again HA!) posts lol! btw i dont have facebook/myspace or any other accounts besides that blogger one. but, thanks for the cyber stalking! ur really showing us ur true colors u fucking creep...
Aug. 9, 2010, 1:40 p.m. CST
u are a veritable bastion of wit. ah who am i kidding? ur a fucking lazy, unemployed, "enlightened" typical internet complainer brotha...
Aug. 9, 2010, 1:43 p.m. CST
i didnt delete ANY accounts fuckwad. i only have that one. but, as usual u dont have ur shit together. u just make random shit up....as usual. color me surprised lol...
Aug. 9, 2010, 1:52 p.m. CST
"Inception dropped a whopping 32% this week! Sinking faster than Titanic!"
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:02 p.m. CST
before they realize their bile is misplaced? I mean jesus. The show has answered EVERY FUCKING QUESTION and provided closure for every charcater and you guys act like your mothers were just raped before your eyes. Fucking pathetic.
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:09 p.m. CST
"I would kill you if I could" - in the Ben/Widmore scene. Why would they say that? And besides, if they answered every question, then the unanswered questions bit on Lospedia would be empty...and its very much not :)
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:11 p.m. CST
Which was fine with me... I didn't want it to. Lost doesn't actually need any defense. It was a very successful show, and outside of talkbacks I haven't heard any major complaints about the ending. In fact most people seemed very happy with it. It's funny that talkbackers complain about everything being explained away in sequels, prequels, etc (midichlorians), yet they criticize Lost for not explaining the island away.
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:15 p.m. CST
Can you be more specific about what moment you are referring to? Are you talking about the scene from TSOTC?
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:17 p.m. CST
they'd explained WTF was going on with the cabin, gave Walt some airtime on the actual show, done something/anything with the 'rules' and had the sideways-verse tie into the Island in someway. There are other gripes (the whole final season certainly lacked in plot, when compared to years 4 and 5) but if they'd paid off those main plot points I'd have been more satisfied. People complain about the 'rules' thing, but to me its a perfectly legitimate complaint, as the Ben/Widmore war was seemingly the big conflict that all the other characters were caught up in. To then sideline that completely to focus on MIB/Jacob was off-putting.
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:21 p.m. CST
that scene implies that the rules of engagement between 'leaders' had some sort of supernatural element to it, (akin to Michael's off-island suicide attempts) and that if they even tried to kill oneanother, they wouldn't be able to. To simply find out later that it just boiled down to a gentlemens agreement is farcical TBH. So Ben breaks into his arch enemies bedroom, a man he holds responsible for killing his daughter, and does what stares menacingly?!
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:29 p.m. CST
I thought it was implied that, like Michael as you said, the island wasn't done with either of them yet, so they couldn't kill each other even if they wanted to, or at least that's what they thought. This was reinforced in the same scene when Widmore said he had the scotch by the bed because he was having nightmares. The nightmares being because the island/Jacob was haunting him to return like Jack.
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:38 p.m. CST
with a capital R
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:40 p.m. CST
at that point Widmore believes its impossible for him to return to the Island (another 'rule' not followed in s6) he's spent years just looking for it. Aah but I forgot, then Jacob visited him offscreen and told him he had to return for some reason. To get shot in a closet apparently. <p><p>Looking back on Widmore in season 6, its like they realised they needed to have him be there, but had no idea what to do with him. So he just wandered about, spoke in riddles to Desmond about sacrifices and then got shot cowering in a wardrobe. What a joke
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:41 p.m. CST
He literally has nothing to offer this site except epithets and tolling.
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:44 p.m. CST
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:45 p.m. CST
that'll be $5. thx
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:54 p.m. CST
Reminds me why I haven't listened to Weezer since 1991.
Aug. 9, 2010, 2:57 p.m. CST
Jacob told Widmore a bunch of crap to get him back to the island. Ultimately Widmore's purpose in going back to the island was to feed MIB the information about Desmond's failsafe status. Jacob knew upon hearing this that MIB would think that was his way to destroy the island, but it ultimately just made him mortal long enough to be killed.
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:02 p.m. CST
Weezer's first album came out in 1994.
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:06 p.m. CST
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:07 p.m. CST
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:15 p.m. CST
I agree that Lost is not a failure. Many great episodes aired prior to the finale are great. It's just an unfinished work. Walkabout and The Constant will always be great. Also, most of the first 2.5 seasons of BSG are great. That horrible finale did not ruin those good episodes. Regardles the Lost finale was empty in my opinion.
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:17 p.m. CST
Why not just put a big DUUDE on the cover?
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:18 p.m. CST
They are actually making the album cover art a picture of Jorge Garcia too. And that is just fucking awesome!
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:19 p.m. CST
the album is now called 'Fuck Lost, I want 6 years of my life back' and the cover is a photo of dogshit.
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:29 p.m. CST
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:32 p.m. CST
That all the mysteries would be answered. They didn't "lie" about that. The advertising for the show in its final season may have, but Darlton didn't lie and say we'd get answers to everything. That's important to remember.
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:37 p.m. CST
D.Vader is so fucking moronic that i cant even finish the end of this...
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:37 p.m. CST
Agreed. The network overdelivered on the marketing for this show since day one. ALL ANSWERS WILL BE REVEALED!!!!!!!! Just shut the fuck up ABC.
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:40 p.m. CST
And yet you managed to finish a coherent thought/statement/sentence. Congrats!
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:56 p.m. CST
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:57 p.m. CST
what I tried to say was: <P> <3 lostboytexass
Aug. 9, 2010, 3:59 p.m. CST
One more try: <P> < 3 lostboytexass. <P>I feel obsolete.
Aug. 9, 2010, 4:22 p.m. CST
I think the Widmore story is unsatisfying. I appreciate your explaining of it and yes, while I agree that is the plot, this is why I find it uninvolving. The whole story relies on 'reveals' that while interesting in their possibilities at the time, come off as boring and mundane when they are put into context. Its funny because it kind of highlights my problem with LOST as a whole. <P><P>First off we have Widmore pop up at the end of an episode in his sub. Typical LOST, its a great cliffhanger ending. Especially as we've been told Widmore cannot return to the Island. We are later told through one line of dialogue that "Jacob sent him". Oh okay then. Then we have the reveal of a drugged up Des in the locked room on the sub. Then Widmore entertains Saywer, in an episode that hints at much, but ultimately reveals very little. It gives us only the introduction of a new character (Zoe) and tells us what happened to the other 316ers, who died by either Widmore or Smokey. Through some cajoling, Des is then taken by Sayid, put in a well and ordered to be killed by MIB. Now if Jacob's plan was to get Des back to the Island, surely there are easier ways of doing this than telling Widmore to abduct him. Jacob sent Ilana to bring Sayid back, was there no one else in his trusted circle to bring back Desmond? And if Sayid had indeed killed him then MIB's plan would have failed anyway. Thats a point right there, Des aint a candidate, MIB kills loads of Widmore's men, why not just kill Desmond? This whole plot is filled with these kind of holes and its all down to one reason: The writers never determined how Ben and Widmore fitted in with MIB and Jacob until the final season. At least thats the way it seems to me. <P><P>They built up this coming war for ages (Bram refers to it with Miles and the good versus evil is a major motif) and I at least assumed that Ben and Widmore would be on opposing sides, that this somehow tied into the 'rules' and that MIB and Jacob were engaged in some sort of battle with the Island at stake. It turned out to be that Jacob was incredibly hands-off in his approach to this conflict however, seemingly just sitting in his foot room and doing tapestries while the other guy manipulated everyone into doing his will. <P><P>My theory is that Darlton introduced MIB and Jacob to retroactively fit into the previous season's stories. MIB was easy cuz he was Smokey so he's been there from the beginning. Jacob though, well he's supposedly been leading the Others for decades, but that doesn't really make sense so they PLOT TWIST said that Ben was in fact seeing MIB all those years. Forget the fact that Ben's number 2 (Richard) knows Jacob AND where he lives, just ignore that. <P><P>All of this comes to a head in the finale. Then, as you say Des heads into the plug room, does something that makes Smokey mortal, and Kate shoots him in the back. I'm kind of underselling it but thats the basic gist. Its just not a satisfying conclusion to a story which is the lynchpin of the entire series. The climatic showdown of season 5 between NotLocke and Jacob was better. But even that relies on Jacob coercing Ben into killing him for no reason. I find Jacob's motivations just weird for the whole season. Not suprising if they did indeed just insert him late in the game to try to tie up the loose ends. <P><P>And rant over. Congratulations if anyone gets to the end
Aug. 9, 2010, 4:28 p.m. CST
he found out from Penny, probbaly. It was never said he could return. Besides, Widmore never goes directly to the island he goes and sets up camp on the Others island.
Aug. 9, 2010, 4:36 p.m. CST
I think the amount of interest given this 12 minute non-episode validates the need and profitability value of a well-written spin-off series!<P> Make it happen!
Aug. 9, 2010, 5:05 p.m. CST
Richard was always the go between. Ben said himself when Locke/MIB asked him and Richard to take him to him.
Aug. 9, 2010, 5:08 p.m. CST
Its never been said that Ben was talking to/seeing MiB and thinking it was Jacob. Ben took Locke to Jacob's cabin, but later reveals he never spoke to Jacob (and this is before he knew about MiB). Ben did it to make Locke feel inferior/stupid, that Ben had a stronger connection to the Island. But then Locke "heard him". Ben assumes its Jacob, gets jealous, and kills Locke. <p> I bring this up as a response to your statement: "that doesn't really make sense so they PLOT TWIST said that Ben was in fact seeing MIB all those years." <p> He wasn't seeing anyone at all.
Aug. 9, 2010, 5:17 p.m. CST
I believe MIB was in the Cabin. He appeared as Christian to Locke and convinced him to join him.
Aug. 9, 2010, 5:36 p.m. CST
then for all those years he told them Jacob was giving orders and making lists (and he did make lists) then was it just Ben making it all up? What about when Widmore was in charge, was he making it all up too? What about Horace? It seems from the show that Horace built the cabin, and had some deeper connection to the Island too but none of this is ever explored or clarified. We are just left to speculate. I don't mind speculating on the nature of the Island or the more mystical stuff, but on the character dynamics which drive the story I think it should be more clear if you want to tell a good story. This is why the whole Jacob story is so uninvolving
Aug. 9, 2010, 5:51 p.m. CST
Jacob probably did pass along note to Ben through Richard, but kidnapping, Walt, Kidnapping Jack, Kate, Saywer & Hurley was all for his own gain. As for Widmore he probably never saw Jacob ether, but theres probably a better chance that Richard was passing him messages. As for Horace he was never an Other. In fact the time that he was building the cabin that was just a dream that was ether caused by the iskand or MIB.
Aug. 9, 2010, 6:08 p.m. CST
I thought that was pretty clear and is why Richard backed Ben for new Others leader. It first started when Widmore charged Ben with killing Rousseau and baby Alex. Ben didn't believe it was the right thing, nor "what the Island wanted", and he called Widmore out on it to his face in front of everyone. <p> Richard watched as Ben said something like "Does the Island want her dead, or do you?" and I think that was the first sign for Richard that maybe Widmore wasn't the right guy to lead anymore. <p> This was exacerbated by the fact that Widmore had been going off Island for his own monetary gain and fathered a child, which Ben used as leverage to have him banished and to gain leadership of The Others. <p> Eventually, Ben started following his own whims instead of that of the Island/Jacob, and that's when Richard once again started looking for another "special" leader and focused on John Locke. The fact that the Island did not heal Ben after his surgery only made things look worse.
Aug. 9, 2010, 6:13 p.m. CST
Aug. 9, 2010, 7:57 p.m. CST
...who supposedly worked on the show. <p> Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ... <p> First ... The Island: <p> It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so. <p> Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work. <p> Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself. <p> Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent. <p> Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun. <p> In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ... <p> Now... <p> Sideways World: <p> Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix. <p> The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving. <p> It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment. <p> How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac. <p> But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny. <p> They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc). <p> A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me. <p> But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it. <p> For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years. <p> In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
Aug. 9, 2010, 8:23 p.m. CST
was to distract from the absolute lack of story they had to tell. They only had one reveal and a bunch of shit to distract you to get to that disappointing point. Cool shit was hinted at but ultimately disregarded shortly after with no payoff. 1. The Sickness 2. Widmore and Zoe's mission 4. Jacob's Cabin and Horace 5. Dogen and the fucking pointless temple. By the way, why the fuck does Rosseau's team get "claimed" by simply going underneath the Temple, instead of being drowned in tainted temple water that wouldn't go tainted until Jacob died? <b> <b> Would love for the apologists to validate one thing about the flashbullshit. For a season that was supposedly about the "characters," they certainly pissed away alot of time they had for character development having to write two separate personalties for the same character. <b> <b> .Jack and Co. created an alternate universe that was actually a weird fucking headgame they had to "wake" from through "love" because they cared about eachother. Er, what?
Aug. 9, 2010, 8:42 p.m. CST
I would like to have seen at the end - they all awaken after their deaths, and realise they knew each other on the island. They want to find out if the island is still around in this world. So they fly out to the site, find the island destroyed. The end of the show.
Aug. 9, 2010, 9:49 p.m. CST
Great read and great contribution!
Aug. 9, 2010, 9:57 p.m. CST
Sayid was, but when Montand was dragged down into the hole under the Temple wall he died from being drug and bleeding out and MIB took his place just like he did with Locke, Christian & Richards Isabella then MIB preceded to take out each of them one by one. I'm guessing though that Rousaeu's husband wasn't MIB, that by then Danielle had gone crazy after having to run from MIB/Montand and shot her real husband.
Aug. 9, 2010, 10:19 p.m. CST
common sense as usual rules out...
Aug. 9, 2010, 10:51 p.m. CST
jay2517 GAY-O-METER<p> ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓░░ 90%
Aug. 9, 2010, 11:07 p.m. CST
u sure do love to project alot dont u cowardBOY? i wonder how many Wal-Mart bathroom stalls hes been banned from...
Aug. 9, 2010, 11:15 p.m. CST
its ok that you're into homosex. we at AICN are accepting of this. in fact we encourage it... you would talk less with a cock in your mouth!
Aug. 10, 2010, 2:55 a.m. CST
I've read that before, and it makes a lot of good points. <P>However, I do have to take issue with this: <br>"the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode." <P>Des and Penny were in the church too, weren't they? And Juliet? <P>Not that it matters, a lot of his other points are fully valid, even if he didn't work on the show, or if JJ et al were lying.
Aug. 10, 2010, 5:14 a.m. CST
I just need a satisfying ending and the ending was not satisfying except on a purely superficial tug your heartstrings level.
Aug. 10, 2010, 5:23 a.m. CST
so much of it is just made up connections based on nothing that happens in the show itself. Jacob brought Dharma to the Island?! Really?! Where'd he get that from? They were brought there to help Jacob kill MIB? When is that ever stated. I don't get the impression Jacob ever wants to kill MIB, he wants to prove him wrong, not kill him. He is after all, still his brother. <P><p> As for the sidways purgatory business, its not profound or moving, its bullshit cod-philosophising, something a first year pysch student would come up with. It also goes against the previously established character dynamics, Sayid's soulmate is Shannon? Really? And Rose can't stand Locke in real life, but she'll wait to enter heaven with him? And what about Penny, she'd never met half of the people in that church, and yet had such a strong connection with them that they all moved to heaven together?! <P><P>Then there's the fact he Island has nothing to do with any of this. Putting a picture of the donkey wheel on the stained glass window in the caket room doesn't count as a connection. Its such a hokey concept, so none of them met anyone else in the 60 odd years they presumably lived after leavign the Island? I find the whole notion of the sideways universe completely underdeveloped and requiring a massive suspension of disbelief. Maybe being an atheist has something to do with it, although I liked BSG's take on religion in its finale so who knows
Aug. 10, 2010, 5:27 a.m. CST
That answers my question, whether the creative team behind LOST got their shit together or not. <br> In fact, they did! <p> Wheter I like the outcome or not, relies just on my specific view of the show. <p> But now I can say, I love 99.999% of LOST. <p> And I will probably buy the LOST Complete Edition Box set. No kidding! I'm at piece with this wonderful show now. I trust this article. <p> And for unanswered questions...? Let's wait for the possible spin-off "The Secret Island"! Another team, another protector, further insight into history, the "creators" of this special place? Who knows... it still may happen! <p> And I would love to follow... <p> Shut up, critics! It's time to move on! <p> As for "Twin Peaks": I always hated, how the finale ended! David Lynch must have been verrry pissed off. But he ultimately failed me with "twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me"! He COULD have answered a lot of questions to the fans and the audience. But he gave a shit! And never returned... <p> But I also love Twin Peaks for about 99%! So much for that!
Aug. 10, 2010, 7:26 a.m. CST
I'm sure as soon as there will be some "Herc's Giveaway" or "LOST Complete SPECTACULAR ISLAND EDITION DOWN 55%" at the HERCVAULT we can further discuss LOVE and HATE for our Island. <p> So, practically, there'll never be "The End"! of all discussions. Mark my words!
Aug. 10, 2010, 8:20 a.m. CST
Hey Farhead guy, you said something along the lines that if you understand art or are an artist theirs no way you could still love LOST after the finale. Your waaay off base. I understand your passion, I understand your disappointment, I understand hating RPLOCKE :D But you made a broad generalization (which happens a lot here!) about artists. I loved LOST all the way through and enjoyed the Finale and OH MY GOD I'm an artist! :p I agree there are plenty of flaws, but enough with the generalizing.
Aug. 10, 2010, 8:21 a.m. CST
Apparently there's a special feature on the DVD where Darlton answer a whole load of questions they didn't answer in the series so I'm quite sure people will have plenty to say about that...
Aug. 10, 2010, 8:40 a.m. CST
Perhaps a TB for that little diddy.
Aug. 10, 2010, 8:53 a.m. CST
You're right! Herc will give us some documentary LOST stuff in the following weeks... <p> Bring it on, Hercules!
Aug. 10, 2010, 8:55 a.m. CST
A lot of people seem to have a problem with the last episode becasue of this notion that the connections in the sideways world were based on some romantic attraction or schmoopyism. While this is certainly true in the case of Sawyer/Juliet, Jin/Sun, Sayid/Shannon, and partly Charlie, the rest of the connections had nothing to do with romantic love. Kate and Claire's connection was Aaron, possibly part of Charlie's as well. Jack's was his father. Locke's was Jack/walking. <p> Iguess it depends on how you define soulmmate. A soulmmate is just someone for which you have a certain affinity. The finale also made it clear that the sideways world was created by them because their time on the island was the most important part of their lives. Given that the Sayid/Shannon connection made sense.
Aug. 10, 2010, 8:57 a.m. CST
Its a Buddhist symbol. That window had many symbols to represent all faiths.
Aug. 10, 2010, 9:01 a.m. CST
If everyone in the church was soulmates and they were all destined to be together because of their involvement in the crash... then why is Penny there? She barely spent more than a day with the Oceanic 6.
Aug. 10, 2010, 9:36 a.m. CST
It's clear, Desmond's a big part(ner) for Penny's appearance there. It's clear, that not explicitly EVERYONE JUST from the first season would appear there. That's happening by crating a show for over six years. Clearly otherwise, they just would have shot the church scene back when the pilot was created. <p> Some kind of a little artistic freedom, brutha! <p> I do blieve this article, but I wish, I'd know the real author/writer who outed himself...
Aug. 10, 2010, 9:38 a.m. CST
Aug. 10, 2010, 9:41 a.m. CST
But maybe he's in Animal Heaven with the Hurley Bird!
Aug. 10, 2010, 9:59 a.m. CST
Not necessarily. Again the sideways world wasn't necessarily some stepping stone to heaven where we all get to be with our loved ones forever. It was a purgatory-like place where they could find each other one last time for closure before "moving on." You can interpret that as heaven if you like, of course, but the muli-religous symbolism of the window is meant to show that what lies through the door into the light could be anything. They could just as all likely be reincarnated into dung beetles.
Aug. 10, 2010, 10:13 a.m. CST
...which wasn't the sideways world any longer. Hence not in purgatory! Penny was in the church! And she was there because of Ol' Des!
Aug. 10, 2010, 10:14 a.m. CST
Aug. 10, 2010, 10:19 a.m. CST
Ummmm...yeah it was. Just because Ben didn't go in it didn't mean it wasn't still part of the sideways world. The light was the exit.
Aug. 10, 2010, 11:22 a.m. CST
by Coughlins Laws
theories, but seriously, if it wasn't shown on the show, it's pointless to speculate. Now it is fine to be invested in theories during the run of the show, but at the end, to not have a coherent conclusion, it makes no sense. We, as fans, shouldn't have to be the ones writing the show for them.
Aug. 10, 2010, 11:38 a.m. CST
So if everyone was reunited with their soul mates in the church... poor Locke has to live his afterlife as a single guy too? Why wasn't Helen there with him? Again the attempted explanation doesn't work. Or were Locke and Boone really an item as Shannon implied back in S1?
Aug. 10, 2010, 11:41 a.m. CST
I did love the finale of lost and felt that it did work. I also looking back am pleased with the show as a whole and it's one of my favorite shows of all time. I accepted going into the last half of S6 there was no way they would address everything left out there and only hoped for satisfactory character resolutions. The finale did that and I can make up my own answers to unanswered questions left at the end.
Aug. 10, 2010, 11:55 a.m. CST
I have a specific question, not ot test anybody, but just to ask. Everyone awoke in the sideways world and went to the church. Based upon what was said during the episode, it was clearly the sideways world as they had all died at different times, but this was everyone's afterlife avatar coming together (my words). How did Locke and Ben get back to the island to rule. By implication they were both dead? Or did they rule as ghosts?
Aug. 10, 2010, 11:57 a.m. CST
by Thunderbolt Ross
But if you think BSG somehow ended better, you are smoking crack rocks daily.
Aug. 10, 2010, noon CST
by Thunderbolt Ross
The sideways world is a realm out of time. It doesn't "happen" in linear time.For instance Hurley was there after presumably living a very long time ("ruling" the island), while Shannon was there after living relatively briefly.
Aug. 10, 2010, 12:01 p.m. CST
Hurley and Ben were left alive on the island at the end to rule the island. Locke was strangled by Ben. The sideways world took place after everyone had died at various points in time, even Hurley and Ben, so it existed outside the realm of time and space.
Aug. 10, 2010, 1:08 p.m. CST
by Coughlins Laws
Aug. 10, 2010, 1:19 p.m. CST
In the end we were all suckered by a coachload of idiots with a truckfull of money. <p> I was totally hooked by the intriguing set-up and it never paid off in a way that really stunning set-ups never do. <p> The writers of Lost have no excuse for the abominable waste of time that their story turned out to be. They could create images, i'll hand that to them and boy how they could, but in the film industry, if you can't create an image, as Malkovich said, you should really get out of the building. <p> It's easy, with millions of dollars and a bunch of planks to act of you, not to mention lashings of CGI to luxuriate in, to create intriguing images. It's also ridiculously easy, in such circumstances, to tell a shit story. <p> These guys don't have to justify anything. They're humbugs the lot of them. They've made their money and they can laugh all the way to the bank, but they'll be remembered as shitty writers, first and foremost, and masterful con-artists second. <p> wankers.
Aug. 10, 2010, 1:19 p.m. CST
They have everything worked out, but they knew that part of the best part of Lost has always been the speculation, so they withheld some answers on purpose. There is nother wrong with debating and coming up with theories now.
Aug. 10, 2010, 1:22 p.m. CST
I guess you were too busy jacking off to Glenn Beck to notice.
Aug. 10, 2010, 1:23 p.m. CST
So now Lost has great CGI and bad acting? You haters love your revisionism don't you?
Aug. 10, 2010, 1:28 p.m. CST
I loved every second I revised in preparation for the final series of Lost. <p> The disappointment came when the writers revised their original narrative instructions. <p> Say, Hobo, you've held court on here for a while regarding all things Lost. What are you going to be the king of now that it's all over? <p> May i recommend auto-erotic asphyxiation?
Aug. 10, 2010, 1:31 p.m. CST
Well I'll continue to expose Casualty Laws, and any other morons, for what they are. You'll still be able to find me in the Mad Men or Fringe TB's as well.
Aug. 10, 2010, 1:33 p.m. CST
by Thunderbolt Ross
What a childish, stupid idea. They tried to make a good ending, and it didn't work out. No-one's conning anyone, no-one is out to get you and reveling in your misery (at least no-one involved in the show). Christ some of you people are such drama queens. It's fine if you didn't like the ending - I think they dropped the ball myself - but this idea that there was some kind of mercenary or even malicious motivation is fucking idiotic.
Aug. 10, 2010, 1:39 p.m. CST
I was at the Lost Encyclopedia panel at Comic-Con and they said that it would not be something where you can go for answers that are not on the show or that are speculation. The two writers said they stopped looking at Lost websites and only studied the show itself and only put things in the book that are actually in the show itself. This is my report on the panel http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/2010/07/comic-con-2010-saturday-lost_27.html
Aug. 10, 2010, 2:16 p.m. CST
by Teddy Artery
on the web. No one made you watch it, you entertainment-hating, self-important imbeciles.
Aug. 10, 2010, 2:25 p.m. CST
by Coughlins Laws
have to resort to personal attacks all the time. You come off as an unruly child. Look, a large percentage of the audience not only didn't like the ending, but felt duped. I would have gladly accepted just about any ending they came up with, but they didn't have the courage to have an actual ending. They chose to leave way too much up in the air. Like I said, speculation and ambiguity was fine in the middle of the show's run, but it was definitely NOT fine to end the show like that. The whole flashsideways/purgatory thing feels so tacked on now and had nothing to do with the first 5 seasons. They writers led us to believe that whatever happened was caused by the bomb going off. Either they outright lied/triked us, or they changed their minds. Look, if you want to watch a show with no real resolution or ending, and that left the most important things unexplained (or unexplained VERY badly), then fine. But the vast majority of Lost fans DID NOT like how they ended the show. It's NOT OK to end a 140+ hour TV show like that. If most of the fans knew how it was going to end, they would have lost 75% of their audience in the second season and the show would've been cancelled. But they told us they got an exact end date because they knew how they were ending it. Really? They thought up that ending 3 years ago and thought it would be so good they stuck with it? Don't make me laugh...
Aug. 10, 2010, 2:25 p.m. CST
Aug. 10, 2010, 2:28 p.m. CST
by Coughlins Laws
were the best first 3 seasons of any show I can think of. That doesn't mean I have no right to attack what I think was a horrible ending and that was badly structured. It didn't make sense, they withheld information for no reason, and characters' actions made little sense. I was bad. Most fans thought it was bad.
Aug. 10, 2010, 3 p.m. CST
You've repeated it over and over and over again. And it's still arrogant, pig-headed, ignorant, and without basis in fact no matter how many times you regurgitate it. I only resort to personal attacks with sycophantic conformists like you who blithely refuse to listen to fact or reason.
Aug. 10, 2010, 3:06 p.m. CST
by Coughlins Laws
the same OPINIONS over and over again? Really? When have you ever changed your opinion on anything on this site? It's a stupid argument. You're accusing me of being arrogant in my opinions, as if you couldn't make the same comment about EVERY SINGLE PERSON on this talkback. The point is, internet tough guys likie you get off on talking shit on the internet all day long, but you know that if you ever saw me in real life, there's not way you'd talk to me like you are right now. It's childish, rude, and shows you to not be a serious person...
Aug. 10, 2010, 5 p.m. CST
I just dragged myself to see the 12 minutes... I must admit I saw it online and not a box. What do the 12 minutes answer? I think nothing at all. Statue? Job? For the love God really ... give... something substantial... Not something of Jimmy Kimmel Live. Again I feel had, again I feel like I am witness to people who really made a good show and turned it into the thing from the blue lagoon that would not die. "Why does the island move?" Dear God I don't care. What was the island itself. Those guys get two questions and the ask something about location and polar F-ing bears? If they would actually have closed the book on that one fine, but it ends with: To transfer the bear to the Orchid Station. Oh yeah that is... wait a minute!!! What do they do to the bear transport it back into the after life pre life pro life dimensional rift thingy to be excavated by that red haired chick. Oh yeah that is... PURE SPECULATION!... I buy a lot of DVD's and Blu-rays. But this series will never be bought by me. I am not a dimwitted fool and I understand that a large contingent of people like the "everything is light and happy thoughts"... but wake up! thats not an ending that is a cop-out. I really don't get those people that say well you have the science and the faith. To explain it away by saying yeah well guess what we are all dead but the island is real is to say to a child not to like its ice cream and when it melts say: Well your ice cream was real, but you are dead... I understand that the marketing team of Lost must have gone out of the final meeting with boners, thinking about the backlash and the confrontation between people who like the 7th Heaven ending and the people who actually were sitting in front of the TV looking for the past years of their lifes they filled with Lost instead of Supernatural or Battlestar etc etc. I can only imagine the carnage that will befall us all when the special limited diamond talking 3D rendered edition will come out with an option where you can chose your own endings... And yes this is a rant and yes I am not from the US so excuse my mistake and yes I believe that somewhere is a tape containing the real ending of lost and the corpses of the people who wanted to do that ending. Good night and fare well
Aug. 10, 2010, 7:05 p.m. CST
have asked? <P><P>I'd have said "If the Island moves, then wouldn't that make certan days longer than others and wouldn't one of the castaways have noticed the Sun not setting or rising in the same place day after day, how do you explain THAT?" <P><P>To which I imagine Ben would have paused for a while and then simply said "magic"