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LOST’s Lindelof Picks
The Five Meanest
Post-Finale Hate-Tweets!!

I am – Hercules!! “Lost” shared the TCA’s best-drama honor with “Breaking Bad” Saturday, and series showrunner Damon Lindelof decided to use the occasion to share five of the more hurtful tweets that came after Jack Shephard hugged select island-mates in the afterlife:
"Hey, douche! Instead of backpacking in Europe or whatever the fuck you're doing, how about you give me six years of my life back?"
"My very first tweet. I started this account just to let you know how disappointed I am in you."
"Has anyone accused you of being an emotional terrorist yet? And research these words: closure and actual explanations."
"You suck. Please don't ruin Star Trek by ending it in Klingon purgatory."
"You're a dirty liar. You never knew, you made it all up, you betrayed us all. You betrayed me and I hope you rot, motherfucker."
Lindelof said the last one was tweeted by J.J. Abrams. Find all of Vulture’s story on the matter here.
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Readers Talkback
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  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:51 a.m. CST

    Hahahahaha!!!

    by antonphd

    Now that was some funny shit!!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:52 a.m. CST

    First!!

    by antonphd

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:53 a.m. CST

    I was second, damnit!!

    by antonphd

    I hate it when I make a douche of myself claiming first only to find out some fucker beat me to it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:54 a.m. CST

    Oh, wait, no, I was the fucker who was first!

    by antonphd

    But I'm still a douche because I claimed first in the first place.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:57 a.m. CST

    Alright. Now I gotta get back to work.

    by antonphd

    I make video games. I have 2am(my time) meeting with an artist in Europe. I had to spend the last 3-4 hours googling swimsuit models to show the artist how I want the characters in the game to look. It was not as much fun as it sounds. After the few few hundred pair of tits you get tired of looking at boobs in a bathing suit no matter how hot they are. Wow my life kicks ass. :)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3 a.m. CST

    I still love LOST, but...

    by 3D-Man

    just not as much. Not after that half-assed finale.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:04 a.m. CST

    "give me six years of my life back"

    by Shermdawg

    That's taking things too far, there was nothing wrong with the first five.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:10 a.m. CST

    I Liked How Lost Ended

    by LOST_FAN

    They answered what was absolutely necessary, and even some things that weren't. Would it be cool to know where the Dharma food drop came from? Sure. Would it impact the story? No. Lost was perfect about 90% of the time. I'll take that kind of tv show any day of the week over what they usually give us. Was the ending everything I wanted it to be and more? How could it be? I've been writing the ending in my mind since the pilot. How can anything live up to what I pictured since day one. Was I satisfied to see what they were heading towards this whole time? Hell yes I was. *Spoiler* Warning Just in Case* What better way to end it. Death. The way we all end. It's nice to know they all found each other. Sure, It would of been fun to see it end in a snow globe or on the back of a turtle or something crazy, but then how pissed would we all be. I'm not gonna tweet Lidelof, but I will say Thank You for 6 years of entertainment. Now, please go write some new stuff so I can keep being entertained. LOL

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:12 a.m. CST

    Lost was a great ride

    by SithMenace

    that fizzled at the end. It's funny that Stephen King and the show's creators had a mutual respect, because Lost ended like just about every Stephen King novel I've read. Great stories, lousy endings.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:13 a.m. CST

    I was planning to re-watch Lost

    by DarthBakpao

    from season 1 again, paying attention to every clue in every episode. Until i learned the whole mythologies have nothing to do with the ending at all. Those were just a bunch of made up mysteries, they could be anything. FUCK YOU LINDELOF! At least i don't have to spend extra money buying the complete series.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:13 a.m. CST

    I think a normal ending would have been kind of nice.

    by Flip63Hole

    At the end of season 3, after Charlie dies. No purgatory, nothing clever. Flash-forward, sideways, purgatory, dream-of-a-butterflies butt-lint, whatever. Just a normal fucking ending. Not too much to ask.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:18 a.m. CST

    I take that back, there was something wrong...

    by Shermdawg

    ....Locke refusing to go look for Desmond and Eko until he built a god damned sweat lodge was fucking retarded.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:39 a.m. CST

    Can't say I disagree

    by paketep

    with any of them. I'm certainly not investing time in any new Cuse & Lindelof TV series until it ends and I see that they didn't do the same pitiful shit.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:54 a.m. CST

    For a brief moment, I thought this was

    by The McPoyle Clan

    actual first-hand reportage from Herc, but I guess not.<br><br>So, Herc, are you a member of the TCA? Can you attend their gatherings without crashing them?<br><br>For all of its faults, Lost's finale (and last season) wasn't nearly as bad as Seinfeld's. The former just didn't meet expectations, while the latter was just plain bad.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:05 a.m. CST

    Long Con

    by newkie brown

    Phenomenal series, brilliantly written, but like so many others I felt that suffered from a final series that undermined the mystery. <p>The biggest problem is that the last season turned out to be a Sawyer-like 'long con'. The afterlife/alternate universe storyline didn't relate to the island storyline except in the most peripheral way. There only to provide the characters with a happy-ever-after ending. <p> Even though they never explicitly stated that it was the universe where the bomb never exploded, this was how most viewers initially read it. When the writers pulled that particular rug in the last few episodes it felt immediately less interesting as a result. <p> Unlike Paketep, I'd be there straight away for a new Cuse/Lindelof series, but I think that fans would give them a lot harder time next time out and not extend them the same credit that they had the entire thing mapped out.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:06 a.m. CST

    Did you know? All LOST props/wardrobe will be auctioned

    by JonChambers

    Every piece of wardrobe - props - blueprints - concept set design models - etc. WILL BE AUCTIONED at the Profiles In History auction house (in Calabassas, CA) very soon. If interested - contact them.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:07 a.m. CST

    I agree with all of them

    by MontyPigeon

    Worst writers in the history of television.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:08 a.m. CST

    Those tweets were better written than Lost.

    by Mono

    L O S T I can't believe I watched six years of that shit thinking it would come to any kind of intelligent conclusion. I got suckered. I got suckered hard.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:10 a.m. CST

    Clearly a lot of butthurt Lost "fans"

    by syn_flood

    didn't actually realise what the show was about until the end. Maybe you guys should actually pay attention. I could not think of a more fitting ending to a TV show than the one for Lost.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:20 a.m. CST

    gotta say. i kinda agree with the tweets.

    by HelveticaConspiracy

    look. the ending sucked. hands down. totally disappointing 'it was all a dream' tv ender bs. no question. HOWEVER, does not change the fact that every episode leading up to that anti-climax was EXCELLENT and some of the best, game changing tv in history. so, eh, win some lose some.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:25 a.m. CST

    Ending was alright

    by FlandersBum

    Not the greatest, but certainly not the worst. Yes, there were unresolved items. But if you honestly expected a show like Lost to answer everything in a neat bow, the show was never meant for you to begin with. I honestly think some people just hate anything to do with God or religion so much it colored their opinion of the ending.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:31 a.m. CST

    hasn't the

    by NippleEffect

    twitter meme run its course yet?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:40 a.m. CST

    Six years? Really?

    by onezeroone

    Coz those six years also gave the Season 3 finale, which is the best TV I've ever seen [Twilight Zone, Twin Peaks etc. on VHS/DVDs].<p> I disagree with those who say it answered all the questions that mattered. No, am not interested in Dharma Food drops, but would've liked to know what the "rules" were . Ya know, like the "rules" that Widmore changed when he killed Alex, like the rules of the Island, rules like...<p> Argh... am not getting into this. It was a great show, greatness coming from the setup. The reveal [or Prestige, as Nolan taught us - In Nolan We Trust] was just very underwhelming. I like to be tricked, not conned.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:02 a.m. CST

    Story changed after season 3

    by mooseaka

    For those who say "don't be a crybaby, it was always about the characters," to you I say this would have been accurate through the first three seasons. However, at the end of Season 3, the character development essentially stopped, and a more narrative story structure took over. The stake became much higher - instead of stories about Sun secretly speaking English and getting Shannon her asthma medicine, we got stories about God-like characters fighting an eternal battle of good and evil. Meanwhile, none of the characters continued to develop after Season 3, or at least the last scene where Jack says "we have to go back". So Season 4 cleverly caught us up to that scene, but still - nobody grew in any way. <P><P> My point? Once they changed the stakes of the show, they pushed the characters back and let a narrative took over. So we have every right to be disappointed at the end to find out that the narrative was meaningless. That is why people are left with a feeling that it was a waste of time. The writers knew exactly what they were doing stringing us along with cliffhanger after cliffhanger, so to not give any comprehensive payoff was a letdown.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:07 a.m. CST

    I Loved/Still Love/Will Love Lost

    by Crow3711

    Forever. It wasn't perfect, but what is? They changed some things around as they went, sure. That's life. It's a six year television show, there is no other way to do it. I wanted closure for those characters, and I got it. I never really cared why a statue had four toes or a cargo plane dropped food anyway. It's not important.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:14 a.m. CST

    Poltergeist

    by high_as_in_berg

    Anyone notice how close the ending of Lost was to the speech that the Parapsychologist lady gave in the middle of Poltergeist (1982)? I had never seen Poltergeist before, watched it last night and couldn't believe how eerie the similarities were.<P> <P> <P>Full speech: "Some people believe that when you die your soul goes to heaven... Some people believe that when you die, there's a light as bright as the sun but it doesn't hurt to look into it. All the answers to all the questions that you ever want to know are inside that light. And when you walk to it you become a part of it forever. And then some people die but they don't know that they've gone... Maybe they didn't want to die. Maybe they weren't ready. Maybe they hadn't lived fully yet or they lived a long long time and they still wanted more life. They resist going into that light however hard the light wants them. They just, they just hang around, watch tv, watch their friends grow up, feeling unhappy and jealous and those feelings are bad. They hurt. And then, some people just get lost on the way to the light. And they need someone to guide them to it. Just like in school. Like, some kids are nice to you, some kids are mean."

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:17 a.m. CST

    I could read a whole book of those

    by ThrowMeTheIdol

    It's cathartic. ;)<p> More thought went into those tweets than into some of the season 6 scripts.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:27 a.m. CST

    This is why this asshole sucks so much

    by JackieJokeman

    Instead of hanging his stupid head in shame he presents these messages as if they were only "amusing" and not a stinging and near universal indictment of his work.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:28 a.m. CST

    I've said that the finale ruins the last 3 seasons.

    by OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWW

    That's not really true. I still like the first 3 seasons, plus the island stuff of season 4. Once they actually get off the island (and come back) it just becomes a huge tease.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:30 a.m. CST

    Also Lindelof, I see what you did there.

    by OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWW

    And no, we're not laughing with you. We're not even laughing at you. It's not laughter.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:35 a.m. CST

    Best show EVER !

    by Mundungus

    stew on that for a year or two. <p> Nothing like Lost to chap your ulcerous buttknuckles.How will manage to stay inflamed. <p> Better haunt all of lindelof's new projects and vent your bleeding read baboon asses there about. <p> The easiest solution would be to just find a sand box, jump right in with your hammer,then pound sand up that fiery mud maw until you are over it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:49 a.m. CST

    Avoiding the core of the situation while deftly building empathy

    by liesandpicturesofalsolies

    Sounds like Lindelof.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:57 a.m. CST

    People like to make excuses...

    by Mr. Profit

    And say the show "was always about the characters", and while true at the start, after a while one of the biggest reasons viewership started to dwindle was because it became more about time travel and sci-fi elements. The character stuff took a back seat to mysteries that became very complex. Mysteries people followed intensely, due to the goodwill the writers gained by saying "we have a plan". <p>And one of the strongest elements of the show, the dynamic between the characters, was taken away when the writers seperated them in time and when some left the island and some didn't. We had many episodes where it wasn't about the characters at all because they were all disjointed and trying to solve this convoluted mystery. <p>When you introduce time travel and don't explain why, when you move the island in time and don't explain how, when you raise the stakes and make us believe Widmore and Linus had more power and they don't after all those seasons they were front and center, it pisses people off. <p>It's corny when people who are so in love with the finale get angry and say non-lovers either didn't get it or were never paying attention to the show. It's fucking rude. People invested a lot of time in the show, and if you are happy with half assed answers, that's on you. Most of us expect proper answers to questions/mysteries. It's like watching Inception and in the end we don't see the plan go into action after all the set up, but rather just a scene of Dom and Mal hugging and leaving purgatory instead. You would all cry bullshit...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:01 a.m. CST

    FUCK DARLTON, and here's why...

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    **LOST & FIGHT CLUB SPOILERS AHOY!**<P> You know why that fucking finale hurt so much? Of COURSE you do, if you're a finale hater. Because you realised - in a way that the apologists never have and never will - that since the pilot, the USP of LOST is the fact that it was NOT A NORMAL ISLAND!! Abrams and Darlton have made much out of the fact that they sold LOST to the studio as a survivors show on a WEIRD island. Had there not been a smoke monster, weird noises, a polar bear in a jungle etc, LOST would have never garnered the fanbase it did. Admit it - well over 90% of we viewers watched it because weird shit was happening on that island to a bunch of superficially hot but relatively sketchy characters in the first episode.<P> Now. Imagine that pilot without all the weird shit. Sure it would have been watched, but how different would it have had to be advertised to us all? Almost ALL the promos ABC did were in one way or another related to the weirdness of LOST - who were the Others, what was that flash at the end of S2, what significance had the numbers got (and the Valenzetti Equation was way more resonant that the fucking bullshit we got in that stupid cave with the names chalked on the walls), and so on. LOST was sold to the studio and to the fans on the strength of its weird SF trappings, NOT on the characters.<P> As the show progressed, yes, the characters became more important. It was interesting to find out who they were, what they were up to in their off-island lives and so on. But it was only interesting insofar as it informed the characters NOW, on the island, as we watched them. Because the immediate dilemma was the characters' continuing survival, and the possibility of escape back home. And sure, the flashforward we got at the end of series 3 was an exciting new twist - but only as a plot device we were unfamiliar with before. We all knew it would end up with the survivors having to get back to the island - and after they did, LOST went all to shit.<P> Think about even the best of the character-led episodes - eg THE CONSTANT. as amazing and emotionally wrenching and moving and nishgtful as it was - it STILL HINGED ON THE WEIRD SHIT. I mean, the entire peisode is about Desmond's love for Penny being the one thing ensuring his safety as he TIME-TRAVELS. So the argument that LOST is all about the characters? Hey, even when LOST at its best WAS all about the characters, THE WEIRD SF STUFF WAS STILL FRONT AND CENTRE!!<P> Consider FIGHT CLUB. The reveal of the twist encourages us to rethink EVERYTHING we've seen in the movie up to and including that point. We see and re-imagine the movie in an entirely different light. Some bits work, some don't, but the hints - and there are many - are there, and they make sense. The best example is where the Jack (Norton) is beating himself up in his boss's office, in an ingenious blackmail plan. The point where he punches himself in the nose, the film freezes, and Jack says: "For some reason, I thought of Tyler durden". And at the point where the twist is revealed, that sentence underpins the entire ingenious rug-pull that Chuck Palahniuk wrote and that Fincher managed so deftly to pull on us all.<P> Contrast that to the shitfest that was the finale. All the SF weirdness, abandoned for some unoriginal purgatory ending that left all the details ambiguous so we could weep at this being our last five minutes with these characters. Consider that every great character moment had the SF stuff inextricably linked in with it - all ignored for some "happily ever after" bullshit. Even an entire scene - scripted, shot, edited and shown in the show - of th4e island underwater, which was actually revealed by the writers after the fact to be a deliberate LIE.<P> FIGHT CLUB didn't lie. It obfuscated, it inveigled, it confused. But it NEVER showed us something that wasn't real - to the plot, to the characters. LOST threw entire chunks of plot in there that had no relevance to ANYTHING.<P> That's not clever writing. It's not creating mystery, or intricately designing a plot that moves right when you think it will turn left. It's ourgith lying, and it was used because the writers were hopelessly caught up in their own lie - that all the clues and mysteries in LOST were building to an enmding that would explain almost all of them, and that it ALL made sense - and they wrote the most pat, amateur, unoriginal Hallmark ending they could be half-arsed bothered to come up with. It was a fucking insult - a punch to the bollocks of any sane viewer who had loved this series from the beginning.<P> To the apologists - guys, I share your pain. You so want LOST to make sense, you're prepared to accept this useless, no-brainer bullshit they threw at us as they left the series. You'll even buy into Darlton's bullshit that this was how they always intended it to end. But if you go back and watch it all from the beginning - you won't find a carefully crafted six-series game-changer that leads you inexorably to a finale that satisfies and ties the plot up into a conclusion that will stand the test of time. You'll realise that the series makes no fucking sense, and this was a barely fifth-grade attempt to be clever and write the whole thing off as "it was all a near-death experience dream as Jack dies", when in fact - if you're brutally honest with yourselves - that is in no way what LOST was advertised or pushed as by the makers, the actors, or the network.<P> LOST was all a lie, in the end. And that's not clever. It's a waste, it's shitty writing, and it's a fucking failure. There's no rewatchability there now. Because as awesome as some of it was back in the day, whenever you watch an episode of it - no matter which one - you'll now know, in the back of your mind, that it's all a great big lie, and that the island mysteries turned out to be two characters the writers couldn't be arsed to define, and the entire flashsideways was in Jack's head as he dies. What a monumentally wasted opportunity.<P> LOST is the worst ending to an awesome beginning since STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE ended with a Playstation 2-demo style fight between Hayden "plank of wood" Christensen and Ewan "only here for the paycheck" McGregor in the can't-be-measured-with-existing-technology-shitfest REVENGE OF THE SITH. From here on in, ANYTHING that has Darlton or Abrams' names on it is automatically on my shit list, and will be viewed with the suspicion and outright cynicism that it rightfully deserves.<P> Fuck you, Darlton. Fuck you, Abrams. If you pulled this shit in any other job, you'd be fucking fired. As Hollywood is full of fucking cowards, retards and desperate morons, you'll probably get rewarded. Fuck you all, forever.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:01 a.m. CST

    I stoped somewhere in season 4

    by frg10

    just couldn't take it anymore. The thing that was driving me mad the most was cliffhangers in episodes that haven't been mention in the episode the following week. So you were coming back the week later thinking "I wonder what" and you had this new episode starting like the previous one that made you all crazy and nuts has never happened. It's like watching J.lo undress at your apartment saying "Prepare for the fuck of your life" and then dissapering, leaving you with the most painful boner (you know, veins all around your dick, thick as ropes, screaming PAIN!) ... sorry, i m still stuck in sweet J.LO times around year 2000. oh sweet world back then, filled with J.lo booty pictorials.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:03 a.m. CST

    And Damon

    by Mr. Profit

    Is proving to be a bit of a baby... This isn't the first time he showed a bit of a crybaby side. He gets butthurt a whole lot on his Twitter account. And I'm sure those weren't the meanest Tweets. <p>Herc should do a compilation of the meanest TalkBack reaction posts. That way Damon can really see what mean looks like...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:04 a.m. CST

    Masochist much?

    by UltimaRex

    This applies to everyone still hung up over this.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:06 a.m. CST

    How do you do a finale fucking CORRECTLY??

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    ASHES TO ASHES. Perfection.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:08 a.m. CST

    This talkback...

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    ...is already meaner than those tweets.<P> Fuck off, Lindelof.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:10 a.m. CST

    UltimaRex

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    There aren't many of us that wouldn't literally punch Lindelof in his smug fucking face for what he did to the end of LOST. That's not insanity. It's dedication to the show, a love of decent writing and conversely a hatred of shit writing, and a whopping great big chunk of karma for that lazy twat of a so-called "writer".<P> Don't tell me you don't understand our hatred.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:10 a.m. CST

    I'm off

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    To get some shit done at home. Keep the vitriol flowing. That fucker deserves it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:13 a.m. CST

    Another good finale: Six Feet Under

    by Mr. Profit

    A show that featured an opening death each episode ended with showing each and every character dying in the future... Perfect ending, unrealistic age make up and all. It was true to all the seasons before it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:18 a.m. CST

    A television show doesn't provide a "ride," douchnozzle

    by gruntybear

    But your Mom did.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:25 a.m. CST

    Ha those were funny

    by Xiphos_2

    and true. Good work people.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:55 a.m. CST

    They're not wrong

    by ron2112

    When you create a show based entirely on the promise, "Keep watching to see how it all comes together," you better have some idea of how it all comes together, or at least the talent to bring it all together when the time comes. When it is finally revealed that you have had no idea whatsoever as to what your story is even about for six whole years, don't get all butthurt when the fans lambaste you for it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:58 a.m. CST

    I agree

    by MG2112

    Moose, Profit, Spud, & others: I enjoyed your thought provocative comments and believe they are spot on. Thanks.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:02 a.m. CST

    Ron

    by MG2112

    Wow, another Rush fan. I had thought that my username was going to be original. Oh well, it certainly is not a bad thing to bring into light the message of the 2112 opus, especially in today's social and political environment.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:13 a.m. CST

    Sad people

    by Bramton1

    I love how people complain about all the things that weren't explained, then complain that they didn't like the explanation that was given. Lost was a very satisfying ride for me. It spent three years developing the characters, then let the story take over. It was about two things: characters, and a strange island. And then the finale is a little strange, and people freak out. Even better are the people who allowed images that showed during the freakin' end credits to redefine six years of the show.<p>You think the ending was shit and ruined the show? Then get out of your mom's basement and make something better.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:15 a.m. CST

    Lost always sucked

    by RedBull_Werewolf

    Non fans have known this for years, glad that you folks that wasted your time with it are finally realizing it. Continue to twat your negative comments, they are funny as hell

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:23 a.m. CST

    Those were the meanest??

    by Billyeveryteen

    Clearly that retard never reads Lost's talkbacks.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:24 a.m. CST

    FUCK YOU LINDELOF AND CUSE!!

    by DarthBakpao

    Why the final twist is the worst? Because instead of making us wanting to revisit the series again, digging and paying more attention to the clues, it just makes everything worthless. It kills the repeat viewing values, knowing that years of spending time on speculating and discussing the mysteries were simply a waste. There is nothing intellegent about Lost, it's just bullshit writings, clearly showing that Lindelof and Cuse are just hack writers with no sense of wrapping up stories with nice closure. yes, FUCK YOU LINDELOF AND CUSE!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:25 a.m. CST

    Yes, the finale was disappointing...

    by ATARI

    now move along, get on the the rest of your life -- it's only a TV show people.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:31 a.m. CST

    My brother stopped watching Lost since season 2

    by DarthBakpao

    He said it shown signs of "making it up as it goes" syndrom that has been plagueing many tv series. I laughed at how stupid he was, missing on watching one of the best tv show ever conceived. In the end, the joke was on me, he was right. Lost was just as clueless as those hack writers were.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:37 a.m. CST

    Sad internet fanboys

    by parissun

    believe they represent the majority of the Lost audience. In reality you are only less than one precent of any tv show audience. No one cares what any of you think. You are mostly failures who have not created anything worthwhile in your lives, so you criticize the gods of creativity. So sad. Time to let go and move on.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:52 a.m. CST

    How can you hate this guy?

    by D.Vader

    Self-deprecation always wins out for me. Tis why I like McG over The Rat.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:59 a.m. CST

    Some pple are way too dedicated to the religion of hyperbole

    by D.Vader

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:05 a.m. CST

    "It's all about the characters"

    by mooseaka

    Here is the ultimate proof that LOST was never really "all about the characters" as many apologists for the finale like to use as a blanket defense:<P><P> When LOST was down to its final four (and a half) hours of show ever, the writers/producers took us away from the "characters" and donated an entire hour to telling us the story of Jacob/MIB in "Across The Sea". Setting aside any opinions one might have about this particular episode (mine are: it was awesome at the time, horrible in hindsight), this shows that the writers continued to push this show as a mythology based series right up to eve of the finale. There was nothing about Across The Sea that gave the viewers any insight whatsoever into the characters who were apparently at that really mattered. We learned nothing that would help us better understand Jack, Kate, Locke (or even fake Locke). Instead we got something that resembled fan fiction, and the answer to one of the more frivolous long-time mysteries (who are the skeletons in the cave? two people we didn't know existed until the final season - woopie!). <P><P> Spud and Profit - your comments are dead on. I was the biggest LOST defender around - and feel like a total sucker for spending so much time theorizing, arguing with friends, and read blogs about what the true meaning of the show was. The writers/producers very deliberately strung us along to think that this all meant something in the end, but it really didn't. So shame on them - not us -for the reactions they got.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:10 a.m. CST

    Mooseaka

    by D.Vader

    Uhmmm, except that one episode gave us insight into the characters whose actions were what the entire final season revolved around, whose actions had affected the LOSTies we know and love. So I think someone could argue just as well that it's still about the characters. A one hour detour near the end isn't proof enough for your argument in my eyes.

  • If you read your username backwards, it says WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLTTTTT followed by U's and O's. I just thought it was funny that it says WWWWAAALLLLTTTT in a Lost post. :)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:24 a.m. CST

    In all fairness,

    by DrManhattansUnit

    the finale was rubbish as far as the limbo stuff went. All the sci-fi stuff out the window, contradicting previous episodes, and making the whole show look pointless. I guess it was pointless.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:29 a.m. CST

    feel sorry for Aaron

    by theGoldbergV

    kid gets to live his whole life and yet gets stuck as a baby for all eternity in heaven. Gutted

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:29 a.m. CST

    And somewhere else..

    by Spyhunter

    Bob Orci is breathing a sigh of relief that today was not his day to be picked on.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:30 a.m. CST

    Vader

    by mooseaka

    Good point. I'll back off on that argument for now, but I stand by my earlier comments.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:31 a.m. CST

    The ending fucking ruined the whole series.

    by Stereotypical Evil Archer

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:32 a.m. CST

    The Battlestar Galactica finale was better

    by I am_NOTREAL

    There, I said it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:35 a.m. CST

    THAT SAID

    by I am_NOTREAL

    I didn't hate the ending to Lost. I expected & hoped for more, and if that was really the ending they'd been aiming for since the game-changing end to Season 3 (which got me back into the show), they could've taken many better roads to get there and could have done so much more with it. So any lingering distaste is (probably) only just a byproduct of missed potential. Not unlike the Star Wars prequels, I suppose. Although Lost didn't twist the knife quite as much.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:36 a.m. CST

    KO

    by newkie brown

    It's true isn't it? Lost was on schedule to become the undisputed Greatest Show Ever (TM), but slipped on sweat and smashed it's pretty face into the canvas. And as the ref counted it out - 4,8,15,16,23,42 - Cuse and Lindelof threw in a Dharma towel.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:37 a.m. CST

    Fair enough Mooseaka

    by D.Vader

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:39 a.m. CST

    Good thing that motherfucker...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Didn't visit here (I assume). Way worse shit was written here. And deservedly so. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Lost ended when Juliet exploded a nuclear bomb in the 70s. As far as I'm concerned, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, and all the rest ended up in a red room with Laura Palmer and a dancing midget and are waiting for a good writer to rescue 'em.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:40 a.m. CST

    people suck: its about theme not JUST character

    by HELLSFOXES

    who didn't think the ending was amazing. the show wasn't about answers to questions, it was always about how we act in the face of questions. sorry for not giving you easy closure, these guys were clearly more interested in themes and subtext then cheap thrills, which you've had more then enough of.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:40 a.m. CST

    Lost was a great show

    by PantherMatt

    People really are some ignorant motherfuckers if they STILL think a)the show was all a dream, b)they were all dead all the time (like that ass-hat "Dot Com" from 30 Rock who does a whole stand-up routine based on hos wholesale misconception of what is really not too difficult to grasp). That said, one still needs to decide if they liked the episode/show, or not. Personally, I loved it. Actually, one of my favorite finales ever.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:42 a.m. CST

    Spud McSpud

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Well-written, well-said, and, well, just about fucking spot on! Cuse and Lindelof, with that ending, also assured that I'll never be seeing anything else with their names attached anywhere (and that's coming from a guy who loved seasons one through five as well as the incomparable "Brisco County").

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:49 a.m. CST

    I guess I'm the only one that didn't mind how it ended

    by Rhinosaur

    It's just a show, anyway. Get over it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:55 a.m. CST

    You're not alone Rhinosaur

    by D.Vader

    The dissatisfied ones are just the ones who feel the need to vocalize their displeasure more than the ones who enjoyed it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:59 a.m. CST

    Loved the ending too...

    by lukasman

    And cant believe people are still thinking they were dead all the time, and nothing actually happened on the island....wtf???

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:02 a.m. CST

    What's weird about lost for me is...

    by DrBrianOblivion

    ...I don't think i've thought about the show even once until I read this article. Usually after a show I like ends i feel bummed out that i'm not going to see another episode, but that just wasn't the case this time. Now i don't know if thats because i was so let down with the conclusion, or the fact that we always knew that the show would last 6 seasons and we had time to prepare for the inevitable... and there will still never be a better finale than six feet under... NEVER EVER... that is still the best show from episode premiere to finale, which I think is saying something considering it lasted 5 seasons....

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:07 a.m. CST

    Actually found the finale incredibly emotional

    by readyrr

    However that said, two months later I feel that the creators of Lost led us on--not enough questions answered. I always maintained that something else--more provocative--was going on. In fact, I read in a Comic-Con interview that JJ Abrams is quoted as saying that when he left the show that Lindelhof and Cuse didn't use most of what he had outlined! (What does that mean?!) There are too many details and mysteries in Lost to suggest that the purgatory ending is NOT what the two planned . I truly believe that somewhere in Season Three or Four that Cuse and Lindelhof got cold feet about Abrams' outline and more provocative ideas, and abandoned them...either not having faith in their audience, or were dictated to change the direction of Lost by ABC, who may have thought the Big Reveal was simply too much for the audience. Anyone else think the same?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:08 a.m. CST

    this show licked balls

    by lostboytexas

    ABC should have just canned in in season 3 like they wanted to.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:18 a.m. CST

    The BSG Finale was horrific

    by iamnicksaicnsn

    Insanely worse than the Lost finale, even though the Lost finale wasn't great. A good emotional ending, but after reading Spud's long diatribe, I have to agree with him, they totally sent the mythology to Hell. I wonder if any of the cast isn't happy with the ending.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:20 a.m. CST

    I loved Lost

    by DangerDave

    however, the more I think about the ending...I continue to feel let down. Not because they didn't answer the questions but because the answer that they gave me for the whole thing...was just fucking weak. I am fine with the church ending, but give us some mortal coil closure to the whole clusterfuck. <P> Also, if you are still functioning in twitter, you're a sheep.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:27 a.m. CST

    Of course, taking this criticism to heart,

    by cookylamoo

    would be anti-Hollywood. What do we peasants know about TV writing, anyway?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:29 a.m. CST

    Not as bad as the Battlestar Galactica finale

    by TrigPalinsBodyDouble

    But, not as good as the Twin Peaks series finale. Not even close. Pretty 'Meh' actually.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:32 a.m. CST

    What's funny is...

    by Mr. Profit

    I voiced my opinion on the finale talkback, and haven't felt the need to discuss it since. But the topic of this post was how Damon was being a baby and posting the "Meanest Finale Tweets". 2 months later. <P>It's funny there are people who are telling anyone who disliked the finale to "Move On", when Damon clearly has not. <P>None of us would have even discussed the finale had he not done this and it was the topic of a talkback post. <P>Also, the whole "Create something better", "Move out of your mom's basement" insults are just about as cliched and uninspired as the finale of the show you are defending... <P>Just because people dislike the show's finale, it doesn't mean they are fat losers who can't get laid and sit in a basement all day. Don't project your insecurities about your miserable social/life situation on us. <P>YOU need to experience real human interaction if you felt crying and hugging in a church or a dog laying next to a dying Jack was truly emotional... It wasn't. It was foolish. A foolish end to a once interesting show.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:33 a.m. CST

    Cooky

    by DangerDave

    I have said this before...<P> I have read some of the best story ideas in the TBs here. I have heard people giving their first impressions of what a movie should be....and the final result was way weaker. <P> Cases in point- "The Book of Eli" someone posted...he is carrying a new gospel across america. Since this is after the book of revelations. Eli is a phophet. <P> real time result...it was a last remaining copy of the bible. WOW! <P> If I was an guy in hollywood I would troll these boards for good ideas.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:35 a.m. CST

    "Being a baby" Mr. Profit?

    by D.Vader

    No sir. That's called having humility and recognizing that not everyone was enamored with the finale. I have no idea how you can take someone willing to read out the disappointed responses as "being a baby", especially when its done for laughs. <p> Obviously its you who has clearly not "moved on" if you still feel the need to attack Lindleof for doing what most showrunners could never acknowledge (I'm looking at you Tim Kring), that fans were disappointed.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:36 a.m. CST

    D.Vader

    by Mr. Profit

    He has gone on Twitter plenty of times when he is mad and has posted some really whiny shit. It makes him look foolish.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:36 a.m. CST

    And Mr. Profit...

    by D.Vader

    The image of a dog's loyalty to a dying character we've been with for 6 years IS emotional, especially to anyone who has ever had a dog. What you said is pretty damned insulting and insensitive.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:37 a.m. CST

    stop crying

    by stevepants

    all these little bitches and their "give me six years of my life back"...fuck you...if your life over the last six years was LOST, then guess what..YOU HAD NO LIFE. You ARE babies, there's no doubting that...there's no arguing otherwise. I loved LOST, I loved the mysteries, but you know what, I don't feel betrayed by the ending...and you know why...BECAUSE I'M NOT A FUCKING LOSER...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:39 a.m. CST

    Lost ended when Ben murdered Starbuck...

    by Billyeveryteen

    Then we had to watch Not-Starbuck convince Ben to kill Jacob, and other such nonsense.<p>Would've been much better if they just kept Starbuck alive.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Never seen any whining on Twitter, Mr. Profit

    by D.Vader

    I've seen self-deprecating jokes a plenty though. But then, I don't follow anyone on Twitter and have only gone to his site when someone commented about it on a talkback.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:42 a.m. CST

    D.Vader

    by Mr. Profit

    Well, I am a dog owner, I love my dog. And "Futurama" did it better. The episode "Jurassic Bark" where Fry's dog was revealed to have waited outside the pizza place for Fry to return until he died was the saddest shit I have ever seen. <P>Vincent coming out of nowhere after being gone forever was useless.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Some people (like Stevepants for example)

    by cookylamoo

    don't care about logic or reason. They just like a big warm fuzzy happy ending where everyone meets up a goes to heaven. Without such emotion over logic people, there would be no Republican party.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:43 a.m. CST

    Also...

    by Mr. Profit

    We agree to disagree. No need to start beefing with me when many share my dislike of the finale.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:44 a.m. CST

    stevepants

    by DangerDave

    Stop lying.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:46 a.m. CST

    Characters + Mythology = GOLD

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Or would have. I don't fault the show for not trying, it's just they got confused on the way. I don't think every "question" needed clear answers. But having ambiguity as part of the mythology would have been more justifiable if they somehow had the island stuff actually match up with the characters' ending. <p>Instead they made the emotional ending completely and overtly discrete from the plot ending. With all the ambiguity and existential freak outs that the island stuff encompasses, it seems like an obvious fit where it would be revealed the characters and mythology are intertwined (beyond the candidates stuff). Strangely they ended up making the island mythology too nuts and bolts to support the mysteries left unsolved or the characters' connection to it. It's like they couldn't pull the trigger on a full-blown pseudo sci-fi explanation, nor leave it as a kind of Lynchian, surreal thing and ended up in the mushy middle ...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:47 a.m. CST

    The DVD

    by readyrr

    Michael Emerson did say that the 15-minute epilogue filmed for the DVD DOES answer a lot of questions. Maybe we hold out our judgment of the show until then...just a thought...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:47 a.m. CST

    BSG ended when Locke committed suicide...

    by Billyeveryteen

    Then we had to watch Not-Locke try to convince everyone where Earth was, and other such nonsense.<p>Would've been much better if they just kept Locke alive.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:47 a.m. CST

    The Ending to Deep Space Nine....

    by cookylamoo

    Was pretty much the same as the Lost ending and they explained everything.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:49 a.m. CST

    "Inception" doesn't make any sense either.

    by cookylamoo

    She had herself declared sane three times? How does THAT work?"

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:51 a.m. CST

    Mr. Profit

    by D.Vader

    Agreed, that episode of Futurama is the best in the entire series. I can't believe how sad it made me in the end. Niagra Falls, frankie bay.<p> As for Vincent coming "out of nowhere", that's a bit disingenuous as the end was a throwback Mobius strip to the beginning, and since Vincent was there in the beginning, he needed to be there in the end. <p> As for our "beef", I'm not beefing with you, only calling things out that I disagree with (and you're not the only one). But don't for a second think that just because many share your opinion, that I can't have a debate with you if I disagree with something you said. <p> That said, however, I do agree to disagree. No need to start getting rowdy at all.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:57 a.m. CST

    I thought Last Week's Futuerama was even creepier.

    by cookylamoo

    That was the old Fry....he's dead now.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Lost ended when...

    by TrigPalinsBodyDouble

    Real Locke ended up waking up in bed next to Suzanne Pleshette. It was all a dream.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:58 a.m. CST

    I haven't caught a single new Futurama yet

    by D.Vader

    Unfortunately =(. Actually wait, I saw the one where Bender was sleeping with the Asian chick.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:59 a.m. CST

    I wish shows like The Bachelorette ended like LOST.

    by Royston Lodge

    That would be fuckin' awesome.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10 a.m. CST

    If I Tweeted, It Would Simply Be...

    by Aquatarkusman

    ... "You write like shit." If pressed for exposition, I would explain that layering bullshit does not make one deep, and that your team wrote about 1,485 "person gets a gun and forces a stand-off" scenes in a mere six seasons of episodic television.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10 a.m. CST

    cookylamoo

    by stevepants

    At what point in my post did I defend LOST or the way it ended? My point is that there are far too many crybabies, bitching and moaning about LOST..the show ended over 2 months ago people...no one OWES you anything...and you know what, if the ending of this show is the only thing that doesn't follow logic or reason to you...I think maybe you need to re-watch the whole series because last time I checked, giant plumes of smoke don't chase people around a jungle, frozen donkey wheels when turned, don't cause Islands to disappear, crashing on an island with massive pockets of electromagnetic energy does not cure cancer, above referenced plumes of smoke do not manifest themselves into people who have died..do I need to go on?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10 a.m. CST

    cookylamoo

    by stevepants

    At what point in my post did I defend LOST or the way it ended? My point is that there are far too many crybabies, bitching and moaning about LOST..the show ended over 2 months ago people...no one OWES you anything...and you know what, if the ending of this show is the only thing that doesn't follow logic or reason to you...I think maybe you need to re-watch the whole series because last time I checked, giant plumes of smoke don't chase people around a jungle, frozen donkey wheels when turned, don't cause Islands to disappear, crashing on an island with massive pockets of electromagnetic energy does not cure cancer, above referenced plumes of smoke do not manifest themselves into people who have died..do I need to go on?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:01 a.m. CST

    "The dissatisfied ones are just the ones..."

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    "Who feel the need to vocalize their displeasure more than the ones who enjoyed it?" You are aware of something, aren't you, called the "enthusiasm gap?" It's the difference between those who "really like" and those who "really dislike" something. It says something about the overall positives versus the overall negatives. As such, Lost, apparently, had a lot more overall negatives than overall positives.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:02 a.m. CST

    P.S. Wait for the Epilogue?

    by Aquatarkusman

    Perhaps you can direct me to the webisode that clears that shit up as well, or maybe the 13th viral marketing website hidden link. Lazy fucks.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:03 a.m. CST

    The Lost ending was emotionally airbrushed

    by Madmarek

    You can tell they came up with the purgatory ending in the last two seasons as nothing prior to this fits at all.<p> Giving an emotionally satisfying ending was all they could manage really as they'd spent the best part of four seasons writing themselves in a hole with no idea how to tie it all together.<p> The UK Ashes to Ashes shows you how much of a difference a show is if you KNOW what the ending is before you start writing the series.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:03 a.m. CST

    The Lost ending was emotionally airbrushed

    by Madmarek

    You can tell they came up with the purgatory ending in the last two seasons as nothing prior to this fits at all.<p> Giving an emotionally satisfying ending was all they could manage really as they'd spent the best part of four seasons writing themselves in a hole with no idea how to tie it all together.<p> The UK Ashes to Ashes shows you how much of a difference a show is if you KNOW what the ending is before you start writing the series.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Royston Lodge

    by D.Vader

    With all the guys either being shot, stabbed, kicked off a cliff, or poisoned with electromagnetic radiation? Heh, yeah that'd be awesome.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:06 a.m. CST

    Lindelof should just do what OJ couldn't do, just lay low

    by Coughlins Laws

    and don't ever mention what he did again. It's like rubbing our noses in it all over again. Now it's like he's mocking us. Just admit that the last 3 seasons were handled badly and you didn't really have a plan as to how to wrap everything up. The problem is, most questions weren't answered, and the ones that were answered were answered badly. The whole flash-sideways nonsense was completely unnecessary and seemed tacked on. There were a couple of touching scenes at the end (Charlie and Claire, Sawyer and Juliet), but the whole purgatory thing was completely idiotic once you realized what they did. And why did Juliet tell Sawyer the bomb worked? They were hoping that people were just emotional about the last episode and didn't take time to think about what actually happened the last 2 seasons. Was it really necessary to kill off Locke? Was it really necessary to add 2 or 3 characters in the last chapter that it turns out the entire show was about but we never get to meet them until the show is 85% over? It's flipping ridiculous, not to mention that they took the 2 characters who knew the most about everything, Richard and Ben, and made them a couple of dunces that all of a sudden knew nothing about the island in the last season. It's really as if they didn't think anything through for season 6. I'd rather watch the Anakin/Padme dating scenes from AOTC over and over again than watch Season 6 of Lost again. And I still don't see how they can possibly claim the sadist Jacob is in anyway a good guy. Dozens of people, probably hundreds of people, died directly because of him. He plucked them out of obscurity and put them in positions where he knew they would almost certainly die bad deaths, and never told anyone why he did what he did. Way to give us a "Hero" at the end of the story that we can't even route for because we have no idea what his motives are and he caused the awful deaths of almost everyone on the show because he refused to let anyone know what they were doing on the island...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:07 a.m. CST

    Cookylamoo

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    You're seriously claiming that Republicans enjoy emotion over logic? Really? That's what you're going with? Well, you might wanna rethink that. Do it "for the children?" Or "the least among us." Or because "we can do better." You know, those stalwart positions of "logic" over "emotion?"<p>And just to be clear, as a stalwart conservative (fuck the Dems AND the Repubs), the last season and the last episode of Lost bit fucking ass!<p>Why don't you ask D. Vader (the "go to" guy for Lost love and apology) what his party affiliation is? I betcha I know.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:07 a.m. CST

    Bike Sharer

    by D.Vader

    You are aware of the fact that most of everyone who enjoyed the show has just... moved on, right? Even those who disliked it have moved on. But everytime a LOST talkback pops up, its usually the same talkbacker names complaining about it, whereas those who liked it just... move on. Unlike me, of course, I still like to hang around and debate from time to time.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:08 a.m. CST

    D. Vader

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Just for clarification (of Cookylamoo's point), what party do you tend towards?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:08 a.m. CST

    Allright Bike Sharer, take a guess!

    by D.Vader

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:09 a.m. CST

    And I have nothing to apologize for

    by D.Vader

    If I'm not going to call you a "hater", I think I deserve the same respect and shouldn't be labeled an "apologist".

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:09 a.m. CST

    Want a truly "mean" post?

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Hey, Lindelof, wish your mom believed in abortion as vehemently as you apparently did with that aborted show!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:10 a.m. CST

    I knew after the Jacob origin story

    by TrigPalinsBodyDouble

    where the writers were heading with the finale. That we weren't gonna get satisfying answers.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:10 a.m. CST

    D. Vader

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Fair enough, Vader. Wanted something that might encompass more than just "love." But you're right. How 'bout "defender?"

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:11 a.m. CST

    Stevepants

    by cookylamoo

    If there was any one thing that the Lost writers owed the viewers it was the sense that something vital to humanity was happening and it wasn't just two loony tunes on an island playing games. They led us on to believe the story had some global significance and then copped out.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:11 a.m. CST

    And, for the record, Vader

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    My guess is...<p>liberal/Dem.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:11 a.m. CST

    Those were pretty tame twits

    by TrigPalinsBodyDouble

    Lindelof obviously has never been to an AICN talkback.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:12 a.m. CST

    And I say that...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Not as an attack, but just a guess.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:12 a.m. CST

    Defender works Bike Sharer

    by D.Vader

    I'll take it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:13 a.m. CST

    And for the record...

    by D.Vader

    I'm independent.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:13 a.m. CST

    And, Vader

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    In no way does my guess reflect badly on you at all. I just think Cookylamoo's point is ridiculous. Only "Republican haters of logic" love Lost? Come on!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:15 a.m. CST

    I'd rather watch the Anakin/Padme dating scenes from AOTC

    by cookylamoo

    Wow, that's cruel even to yourself.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:16 a.m. CST

    Oh I understand Bike Sharer

    by D.Vader

    Thank you for clarifying, but I understood your point from the beginning. I also understand his viewpoint, as many Republicans I know (here in the South) do seem to be get emotionally compromised when it comes to politics (and I think their strong religion has a hand in it), and there are many Democrats who do the same (that's politics for you) but I wouldn't go so far as to make a blanket statement such as that about either side.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:17 a.m. CST

    OK, Sorry about the Republican Crack.

    by cookylamoo

    But the world is full of people who just react emotionally and never question anything. Which is basically why the world is such a huge fucking mess.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:19 a.m. CST

    Independent is a cop out, Vader

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Take the cult of personality shit outta politics (Bush, Obama, Clinton, Reagan). How do your values align with the stated PRINCIPLES (not actions) of the two parties in the U.S.? For instance, I consider myself libertarian conservative. However, I tend to vote Republican. I despise many of the actions of the Repubs, but I tend to vote for them as more of their "core principles" (i.e., party platform, not the actions of any one politician) tend to align more with my ideas of smaller government, less intrusion. Granted, though, the Repubs often seem to wanna spend, spend, spend and federally legislate things like pot, coke, and the like that ought to be left up to the states, but at least they pretend to want smaller government. To me, Dems seem to love bigger government AND, even on the issues which they claim to support freedom on (transparency, freedom of speech, etc.), they legislate FAR, FAR, FAR away from this. (See, for instance, the continued warrantless wiretaps, the new law regarding FOIA vis-a-vis the SEC and the FBI, etc.)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:22 a.m. CST

    Coughlins Laws

    by theGoldbergV

    that is brilliant. What a dick Jacob was. <p><p>Season 6 of LOST is in hindsight, terrible. As it aired it seemed ok, up until around Across The Sea, whereby it became clear that there was no *plan*. Zombie Sayid, crazy Claire, Ilana blowing up, Ben and Richard becoming stupid, Sun and Jin volontarily orphaning their daughter, Widmore showing up to do NOTHING for a whole bunch of episodes, the big plug, Shannon re-appeaing for no reason and the god-awful sideways/purgatory thing. All of that reads like bad fan fiction. <p><p>I'll go with whoever said it above, LOST ends when the bomb goes off. They all died trying to reset the space-time continuum. The End. <P><P>BTW, did we ever find out why Richard said "I saw them all die"?!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:22 a.m. CST

    Independent is not a cop out

    by D.Vader

    Not when you share values of each side and hate different things that each side stands for. I'm not going to pick the lesser of two evils just so someone won't say I'm a cop-out. Middle of the road is ALWAYS the best option in my opinion. Its just too bad politicians don't always take it. And why? Because you've got to pander to one side to get elected, unfortunately. That's democracy for you. Power to the people, power to the fools.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:22 a.m. CST

    Republican Crack!!!

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    LOL! Whatcha gotta smoke to vote for Bush!!! LMAO! Point taken, though, Cookylamoo. Thanks. Both sides (fuck, it's a HUMAN condition, right, not a political one) react emotionally to shit. But your larger point regarding emotion, Cookymlamoo, may be spot on - getting caught up in the "feel goods" of the battle between Locke and Jack and the "oh, look at us, we're going to heaven" shit of the purgatory ending.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Power to the people, power to the fools!!!

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    LMAO! Best indictment of "democracy" as opposed to "representative republic" that I've ever seen! Well said, Vader!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:24 a.m. CST

    How I would have liked it to end

    by I Max U Mini

    <p>When they finally reach the underground light, we discover it was "the orb" from The Adventures of Briscoe County, Jr.</p> <p> </p> <p>Carlton Cuse could have wrapped up two series in one swoop.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:24 a.m. CST

    GoldbergV

    by D.Vader

    Richard, in the past, knew Jack and company were taking a nuclear bomb to the Swan site. When the bomb exploded and created "The Incident", he most likely saw the explosion and assumed they had all died in it, not knowing they had been propelled into the proper timeline.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:25 a.m. CST

    TheGoldbergV

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    That was me! (And others.) I own seasons one through five and, if I ever get over the ill will created by season six and the finale, hopefully, I'll one day watch 'em (and drool like a motherfucker over Elizabeth Mitchell) and end it there - a bomb explodes and one of the hottest chicks working on TV is...<p>L O S T

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:27 a.m. CST

    FUCK ME, I MAX U MINI!!!

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    That shit would've made me forgive fucking EVERYTHING!!! The fucking Orb from Brisco County!!! And Bruce Campbell dressed in Western wear down in that fucking pool, wrestling with the Orb saying, "Can somebody give me a hand here?" OMG!!!! Fucking perfect!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:28 a.m. CST

    The other problem with "representative republic"

    by D.Vader

    Is that we have this institution because if it were a true democracy, yes the fools would have a lot of power. We elect representatives and hope they will have the same ideas and values we have, but also make the tough decisions that are best for all. <p> The problem arises when they do make these tough decisions, that probably aren't shared by all constituents, and then the constituents bitch and vote them out of office, even though their tough decision may have been the best one of all. They get punished for doing the right thing. <p> Or on the opposite end, they do what ends up being wrong for everyone, but the real problems is that the people think the politician is wrong for doing it, when in reality, that's what we elect them for in the first place: so that he/she can make the decision instead of leaving it up to the masses (who are not always right).

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:29 a.m. CST

    But shit, I don't wanna get into politics

    by D.Vader

    I'm going to wish I could take that last post back, if that's what this talkback devolves into... <p> I gotta go to the gym anyway. I'll catch you cool cats later.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:31 a.m. CST

    I'm always suspicious of golden water.

    by cookylamoo

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:31 a.m. CST

    opinions

    by charlesbronsonLIVES

    all right. i know this is like talking to a brick wall, but the existence of LOST didn't personally hurt any of you. at any point throughout the 6 seasons you could have walked away. no one put a gun to your head and forced you to watch it. i watched it and i enjoyed myself. i bought dvds. sure, some steps were taken that i didnt exactly flip out over, but thats a side effect of following serialized art. call those who like it an apologist or an asshole or whatever the fuck you want to call them (us), but in no way does darlton owe anyone anything other than what they gave them. a show with an ending. grow the fuck up and stop complaining about how they never knew what the ending was or how it was all a bullshit story of coincidence or how george lucas raped your childhood. speaking of that fat fucker, you idiots who still complain about those piles of shit should have stopped after watching the first one and shut up about it. but no. eleven years later you're still using that as the shit smelling gold standard of fucking with fans. how about you shitheads try for one day to exist in the world without being completely cynical 24 hours a day? let art be art. don't watch stuff that you're suspicious about. let people like what they fucking like and you like what you like. fuck your cynicism. its a pretty great world that lets options exist in art. so shut your ass and let the man work. if you dont support him, he wont be able to work unless he actually has talent. lindelof clearly has talent. so eat an ass and stop complaining about every fucking little thing.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:31 a.m. CST

    D. Vader, okay then

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    So... you vote half Repub, half Dem? Fair enough. Me, I've never voted Democrat, but I've sure as hell held my nose a lot when voting Repub. (A LOT!!!) ;-)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:34 a.m. CST

    spot on D.Vader

    by gotilk

    but yeah, how did the talkback get to this exactly? I still feel robbed a bit by Lost. But it is just a TV show. And I did enjoy watching it. So maybe there's a part of me that just likes to complain.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:35 a.m. CST

    My initial reaction was not that negative.

    by gotilk

    But as the weeks went by, it kind of settled in and started to bother me.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:35 a.m. CST

    Yes, D. Vader, but...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    The great thing about representative republics is that they straddle the line between autocracy and pure democracy. And the chance continues to exist that future representatives will "do the right thing" as opposed to a tyranny of the masses. But no politics then. Done.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:36 a.m. CST

    Cookylamoo, that golden water was...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Cuse and Lindelof pissing on our legs and telling it was "always about the characters." ;-)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:36 a.m. CST

    Fight Club?????

    by m_prevette

    People hold up Fight Club as an example of good writing? Oh hell.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:37 a.m. CST

    D.Vader

    by theGoldbergV

    yeah, except that in no way equates to "I saw them all die". Its more like "I saw something that leads me to believe that they are in fact, most likely, dead". But that doesn't quite have the 'end of episode cliffhanger' type ring to it does it? <P><P>I only mention that because it appears that even at the end of season 5 they were still throwing things out there and not working to a specific plan. When the bomb blew up, how come they all got "shunted" to the present day anyway? Aargh LOST, you may have been entertaining at the time, but you make no sense at all. When whole seasons of plot can be explained away with "because" you know something's wrong. Why did the time travel happen? Because. Why did the time travel stop? Because. Why can't Ben kill Widmore? Because. Why are Keamy and Mikhail in purgatory? Because. <P><P>It just goes on and on

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:39 a.m. CST

    charlesbrononLIVES

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Why don't YOU "shut your ass" and let us complain? Huh? We complain 'cause we enjoyed for five or six seasons. Are you fucking retarded? You get a fucking pubic hair in your burger at the last bite and you let it go? Huh? I mean, you ate the sandwich up until then, didn't you? Enjoyed it, right? Don't complain then. Simply set the pube aside and go about your business. (Fuck! At least, D. Vader makes VALID points in his defense and I respect him for it.)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:41 a.m. CST

    Coughlins Laws

    by Mr. Profit

    When Juliet said "It Worked", Miles could have been hearing her say "It Worked" in the afterlife when Sawyer was fucking around with the vending machine. Silly. I know, but that's what I thought after seeing the finale. What bugged me was why introduce time travel with no real resolution or reason for it, and only using it to kill time and separate the core group for a few seasons? <P>Season 6 invalidates season 4 and 5. Had season 4 and 5 been spent building up the Jacob vs MIB battle at the end and season 6 been used to just advance on island activity with NO flash sideways, maybe it would have been better. But the whole traveling back, being lost in time, setting off a bomb seems like a time waster now...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:42 a.m. CST

    I think LOST wanted to have their "ambiguous" ending...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    While still giving closure to the character. Think Twin Peaks or The Prisoner. Both those had ambiguous endings AND no closure for the characters. I think LOST'S producers wanted to have their cake and fuck us in the ass, too.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:43 a.m. CST

    D. Vader

    by Mr. Profit

    No beef here, I actually like your posts because they are thought out and not random... When you said I was insensitive and it was offensive I was like wait a minute... That's why I said what I said up above. <P>Again, good chatting with ya even though we agree to disagree.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:43 a.m. CST

    You can't blame people for watching for five and a half years.

    by cookylamoo

    and believing that it was all going to be wrapped up satisfactorily. It was only after we saw "Across the Sea" that panic set in.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:44 a.m. CST

    Mr. Profit

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Very true, sir. I'd have preferred what they implied (an actual flash sideways instead of purgatory or whatever) with that (the flash sideways/alternate timeline/pocket universe) being Jacob's ace in the hole - a side bet designed to derail the MIB should his plans succeed.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:45 a.m. CST

    Cookylamoo

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    My panic didn't hit until "The End." I really thought that the flash sideways was a pocket universe/alternate timeline created to counteract MIB.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:46 a.m. CST

    Lost is dead to me

    by kwisatzhaderach

    and I loved it up until the last 10 minutes. That ending was complete and utter fucking shit. <p> It really was.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:47 a.m. CST

    And, in retrospect

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    I think that the Jacob/MIB shit was baloney. I would've like "alien spaceship crashed" as the power source of the island (and cause of the timeslip) way more.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:48 a.m. CST

    But you know

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    An ambiguous "alien spaceship crashed" thing. Like Tommyknockers meets It or something.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:50 a.m. CST

    Killik

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    I'm a HUUUUUUUGE fan of Twin Peaks. What I'm talking about is the lack of closure (in the series) for the characters themselves. (And I disagree on the common wisdom of the revelation of Bob being a mistake, too.) What I'm talking about regarding Twin Peaks is the leaving the characters hanging at the bank explosion, etc.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:51 a.m. CST

    The Bicycle Sharer

    by Mr. Profit

    When the island was underwater, with Dharma sharks floating around, I thought the same exact thing. But why would that even exist in purgatory? <P>People say we complain we didn't get answers, but shit season 6 did not really explain main things. Why did MIB fall in the hole and become MIB? Because. Why did he think building a donkey wheel would move the island? Because. Why did Jacob get chances to leave and touch the "candidates" (effectively ruining their lives by the way) and MIB was stuck? Because. Why was is bad if MIB got off the island? But when the magic cork was removed, it only made him vulnerable to being killed? I thought keeping him there was the main reason? <P>The more I rehash it, the more I start asking, and the more I just end up shaking my damn head...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:53 a.m. CST

    And Smokey and Jacob were revealed early....

    by Mr. Profit

    But the difference was that they weren't shown to be the main event. It was all Widmore vs Linus and that shit went nowhere...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:54 a.m. CST

    Prefering emotion over logic does not make you a bad person.

    by cookylamoo

    But it does make you prime fodder for a religious movement.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:55 a.m. CST

    LOLs had! Thank you anonymous Twitterers!

    by Super Rabbi

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11 a.m. CST

    well...

    by JAMF

    i LOVED lost and since it ended i've had no desire to rewatch any episode - right now i'm rewatching carnivale after just finishing off rewatches of all episodes of deadwood and rome. you see the problem is the characters were shit so i have no desire to seem them again now that the plot (the only main draw of lost, let's be honest people!) has also been proven to be a load of ass. see?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:08 a.m. CST

    The Last 10 minutes of Lost is a smelliest green turd ever on TV

    by Anaximandar

    The last two seasons of Lost were an elaborate con set up to hide the real 'twist' ending - except the twist sucked because the proposed 'con' ending was better than the twist. The post above about how Fight Club did it right and Lost did it wrong is dead-on correct. I don't care about dharma food drops or how the rules worked, I care about feeling cheated because of a stupid writing gimmick that worked in Season 3 and sucked in finale. The Charlie/Claire and Juliet/Sawyer scenes had me all emotional, but then you find out they were dead and don't get a do-over - this cheats me out of that emotion. If your dead, it doesn't matter, becaus the stakes are nil. Even in an afterlife movie like 'Defending your Life', they set up the stakes correctly but Lost shit the bed in that setup. For the purgatory ending to work a little better, I think they should have let that cat out of the bag 5 or 6 episodes before the end, then set up the rules and stakes of the purgatory world in the final half of the season, instead of clubbing us on the head with the twisty-nonsense hammer in the last 10 minutes. I was 100% completely in love with Lost until the last 10 minutes. I felt a sinking feeling in my stomach during the Christian/Jack scene and I was trying to reconcile it - but now I understand that what Lost did to me, as a fanboy, was ruin scripted Television forever. I stopped watching Fringe and started watching American Idol. Lost made me watch Reality TV.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:10 a.m. CST

    Greasy nerds can't handle something touching

    by Fat and Curious

    You cynical dorks would have preferred the island actually be the cage for a giant hentai tentacle beast that ends up stuffing all the girls in the end. The reason I loved this ending is because I'm popular and get tons of ass, whereas the people who rage against it here are certain they will die alone. Your Sideways timeline will consist of you standing in an empty porta potty at Comic-Con smelling diarrhea until the white light comes through the door. No wonder you people can't stand it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:10 a.m. CST

    KilliK & Bicycle, RE: Twin Peaks Finale

    by TrigPalinsBodyDouble

    As a huge, HUGE fan of Twin Peaks I found the final episode completely satisfying. Written and Directed by Lynch himself almost half the episode takes place inside the freaking RED ROOM where Wyndham Earl, BOB, The Little Man From Another Place, Leland nd Laura Palmer all make appearances. How awesome was that? And Laura Palmer and Agent Cooper's story comes full circle at teh end of Fire Walk With Me. Sure, it left a lot of character's fates up in the air, but this means that a-hole Leo is kept perpetually in a state of impending doom. Not a bad thing.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:14 a.m. CST

    Bicycle Thief

    by I Max U Mini

    The DHARMA Initiative was actually started by Albert Wickwire who, while on the run from authorities changed his name to Albert Widmore. And let's not forget that Big Smith changed his name to Tom Friendly.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:17 a.m. CST

    Listen, I can bitch as much as I want about Lost. It turned

    by Coughlins Laws

    out to be the ol' Bait and Switch. The greatness of the first 3 Seasons and all of the extras on the DVDs and interviews with the smirking, asshole showrunners promised us something that never happened. We were all promised a payoff and a plan on how to wrap things up, and it never happened. They changed characters, killed people off for no reason, and introduced new characters at the very end to help them almost end the story. Well, I'm willing to watch a movie that isn't very clear or have a definitive ending. It can be a cool ride but it only costs me 2 hours. I'm NOT willing to invest 130 hours into a TV Show where the producers promised things they didn't deliver. We find out at the very end that NONE of the characters we spent 6 years watching, except maybe 2 or 3, really mattered at all. It was just very unsatisfying. They kept giving us cliffhangers that they had no idea what they were. They fucking admitted on the Season 1 DVD that they didn't even know what was in the hatch until they started writing the next season!!! That should have been the warning sign!!! And then, at the end of Season 3, Ben told Jack not to call the freighter or every living thing on the island would be killed. Turns out, it was only maybe a dozen guys with machine guns. They were REALLY going to kill everything on the island? The Others took them out with no problem. Plus, how the Hell did they get to New Otherton before running into the castaways on the beach? If you take time at all to think about anything that happened after the Season 3 Finale (the series highpoint), you realize nothing really makes sense. Great episodes like The Constant, in the end, were pointless. The fact that Desmond had these abilities didn't really end up mattering. Or when Jacob's brother fell down the waterfall, he turned into the Smoke Monster,, but when Jack and Desmond went down, nothing happened to them? Huh? What? Really? Seriously? So, was Fake Locke ever really Jacob's brother, or was he an old soul from that well that just took his body? Huh? I would have preferred if they were God and The Devil after all...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:18 a.m. CST

    LOL, Trig Palin!

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Didn't say that it wasn't satisfying, just that it had no closure. Again, like seasons one through five of Lost, I own Twin Peaks (Gold Box edition). Unlike Lost, however, I rewatch that shit all the time. And regarding the Red Room and Lynch's directing the final episode, booyah! Have you read the original script of that last ep (by Mark Frost and his brother, I believe). Way less satisfying. WAAAAAY less. Regarding the "full circle" of Laura and Coop in the Red Room in FWWM, I agree. Which is why I noted "series" and didn't include the movie. And, on the movie, have you read the script. Lots of post-series shit in the script, including Annie being rushed to the hospital (after her removal from Glastonbury Grove) muttering stuff to the nurse about Dale being trapped in the Black Lodge. FWWM works as a series finale for me exactly like Serenity did for Firefly - a great movie conclusion to the show.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:20 a.m. CST

    Fat and Curious

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Sweaty, pimply man ass doesn't count. Neither do lies. And I like a touching ending as much (or more?) than the next guy. I mean, fuck, I just saw Charlie St. Cloud in the theaters and am on a "watch through" of both My So-Called Life and Freaks and Geeks with the wife. Trust me, I'm totally fine with a "touching" ending. You can have a touching ending without fucking the audience up the ass. But since you seem to love ass (man ass, that is), you're probably not aware of that.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:21 a.m. CST

    Plus, is anyone impressed I'm NOT talking politics?

    by Coughlins Laws

    Proof I didn't bring politics up at all...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:22 a.m. CST

    2 camps of LOST finale opinions

    by blunted666

    The people that say that it was all THAT terrible, and the people who are correct.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:22 a.m. CST

    *wasn't all that terrible

    by blunted666

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:23 a.m. CST

    I Max U Mini

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    If only that were true about Wickwire and Big Smith! But I don't wanna taint Brisco with the bloody abortive mess that was Lost. ;-)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:24 a.m. CST

    Fat and Curious doesn't like mustard...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    He likes "man ass!" On his "man-wich!"

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:25 a.m. CST

    Well played, Coughlin

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Me? Epic fail! My bad.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:25 a.m. CST

    Loving the finale has nothing to do with...

    by RongoRongoMu

    ...being an apologist, nor does it have to do with the claim that "it was always about the characters." LOST was not a black and white equation: it wasn't ALL about the characters OR ALL about the mystery. It was both. It also had romance, action and a whole smorgasbord of elements that made it enjoyable. So, yeah, defending the finale by saying the mystery-lovers "don't get it" is stupid. The reason the finale was excellent, and where the mystery-lovers who now knock it show how brainless they are is that in most instances, QUESTIONS ARE BETTER LEFT UNANSWERED. LOST was not a puzzle that the audience was expected to put together, it was a show with many layers of hidden meaning for the audience to contemplate. The producers were never going to hold your hand through this. Those complaining about the lack of answers sound like the whiniest, neediest bunch of crybabies in the history of TV fandom. Grow up and learn to think for yourself. That's what the show was trying to make you do. The fact that you now hate it because it didn't spell things out for you letter-for-letter only proves that you never had the intellectual maturity to watch it in the first place.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:25 a.m. CST

    Slab of gay...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    With a side of man ass. How'd you like that cooked? Extra queer!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:26 a.m. CST

    Took me a second, Blunted

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    But true dat!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:31 a.m. CST

    RongoRongoMu

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Agreed with you up to the slam on the "mystery lovers" and "better left unanswered." It's not quite so unequivocal. SOME TIMES, it's better left unanswered. Problem is, Lost kept promising answers then reneged. Simple as that. Twin Peaks, The Prisoner, et al., are perfect examples of ambiguous unanswered questions. In your opinion, Lost "was not a puzzle that the audience was expected to put together." I disagree. And so did the producers up until that ending. We kept (up until about the time of "Across the Sea") kept getting promised answers, including, I'll mention, starting with the first season in a NYT article in which Lindelof or Cuse promised "scientific explanations." There's a big fucking difference between "hand-holding" and "spelling things out letter-for-letter" and Lost's ending. Do you even read the criticisms?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:34 a.m. CST

    And also Rongo

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    How do you square the ideas of Lost not being "a puzzle that the audience was expected to put together" and your statement that the show expected the audience to "think for [it]self" through the "hidden layers?" Why bother to "think for yourself" through "hidden layers" if it's not "a puzzle that the audience was expected to put together?" Seems kinda contradictory to me. Either it was a puzzle requiring vast audience thought through "hidden layers" or no thought was required, simply enjoy the ride.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:35 a.m. CST

    The stuff that kept me coming back...

    by DeadAtRecess

    Alright, I'm not asking for 6 years of my life back, I don't live in my mom's basement, and I am not wishing death upon the writers. What I would have really liked was a proper ending. What kept me coming back time and again for LOST was the mysterious goings on that took place on the island. I appreciate all the actors and such, but I could give a shit about who Kate was fucking or about teary eyed Jack and his alcoholism and his dead alcoholic father...or Sawyer and his dead parents and the need for revenge. I wanted to know what the island was...because telling me that it's a buttplug for the Earth to stop the evil shit from escaping is not good enough. I returned week after week and year after year to find out what Dharma was, why they were there, and what they were doing in the world off the island. Polar bear skeletons in the desert wearing Dharma tags on their collars? I wanted to know what the experiments were all about. I wanted to know what all the different Dharma stations were and what their functions had to do with the research. I wanted to know what the fuck the smoke monster was. Why couldn't it pass through those sonic barriers? What was the deal with The Others? Why did they capture all those kids? What was the deal with Walt? Why was the island so special? Why did this island have a time traveling steering wheel? Why does this island have CRAZY electromagnetic properties? The list goes ON AND ON... Basically, what kept me coming back was the island itself and the mysteries surrounding it and the mysteries that it created...none of which were answered satisfactorily to the non-apologists. A couple that my wife and I hang out with didn't see LOST on TV, but they knew that I hated the finale. They started watching the show in June on DVD and they love it. They cannot possibly understand how we could have despised the ending. They have stated that we are going to have a big LOST discussion after they see the finale...and I just keep saying to them "wait until you see the last 30 minutes". Even a lot of the DVD special features are about Dharma with fake documentaries and all that...and the webisode shit they made was all stuff about rabbits and time traveling and Dharma...and the ending does not wrap that shit up! AT ALL! WTF??? The ending has NOTHING to do with what the WHOLE SHOW was about. It just makes no fucking sense for writers to do that. What a rip off. I tuned in weekly, watched your commercials, and you can't write an ending with conclusions to all the questions that YOU posed? You posed those questions to get me to come back, and then you didn't answer them...how could anyone not be upset or annoyed??? Come on...that's just ignorant and lazy, and pathetic for people to try and defend. The entire 6th season should have been spent explaining things and wrapping everything up for a very dramatic conclusion...not just saying "Fuck you, Jack died on the island, but here's what happened when he met up with all of his pals after they were all dead and waiting to meet up to go to the afterlife together...and Sayid isn't with his soulmate...and Walt isn't there...and they were led there by Christian Shepherd...the end." Pay no attention to the Dharma Initiative behind the curtain! The great and powerful Darlton has spoken!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:37 a.m. CST

    Bicycle

    by TrigPalinsBodyDouble

    The first time I saw FWWM was in the theater tripping. It was one of my single greatest film-going experiences in my life. That film is much maligned but I'm glad to find a fellow Peaks fan who appreciates its genius as much as I do. I did not read the screenplay but I don't know why Lynch took that stuff out since only hard core Peaks fans were going to like that film anyway. I see FWWM as a love letter from Lynch to his fans. Straight from his f'n heart!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:39 a.m. CST

    Killik

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Lynch considers it a mistake (re: revealing the killer). True. I disagree, however. Have you seen "Lost Highway?" Fuck! Sometimes Lynch needs to be reined in, especially in a medium like television. Just my opinion, though, spoken as a guy who would probably never wash his hand again if he got to shake hands with Lynch. I mean, shit, the early films of David Lynch and "Catching the Big Fish" are on heavy rotation around here, but often, I think, Lynch works best with a Frost or a Gifford or an Engels, corralling his stream-of-consciousness writing and filmmaking into something at least a little more approachable by a wider audience.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:39 a.m. CST

    BSG

    by mullymt

    I found the BSG finale really satisfying, actually. It wasn't the most excited piece of television ever, but it was fair to the characters.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:41 a.m. CST

    As Usual, The Simpsons Had It Right

    by GeneralFlintstone

    Remember this quote: "Bart: Hey, I know it wasn't great, but what right do you have to complain? CBG: As a loyal viewer, I feel they owe me. Bart: What? They're giving you thousands of hours of entertainment for free. What could they possibly owe you? If anything, you owe them." Everyone who is taking a television show personally would do well to think about it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:45 a.m. CST

    "thousands of hours of entertainment for free"

    by Margot Tenenbaum

    The only reason Lindelof has re-emerged right now is to pimp the LOST DVD/Blu-Rays.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:46 a.m. CST

    Trig

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    I saw that movie opening day with my ex-wife. Me, her, and one other dude in the theater! I'd quit tripping by that point (early '91 the last time) and, man, I don't know what I would've done if I was high watching that. To this day, I love the Bowie sequence (a big time precursor to Lost Highway and Mulholland, i think). But don't feel lonely. Lots of TP love on AICN.<p>Bwahahaha! "Straight from his f'n heart?!?!?" I fucking play that song around here and everything must come to a stop while I channel ol' Frank and yell (acting, of course) at my wife that entire speech from Blue Velvet. I play that slo-mo gun battle in Blue Velvet and then the same one from Miller's Crossing around here about once a month.<p>I wish Lynch could be talked into a TV mini-series to revisit TP on AMC or something. I'd take just seven or eight episodes. Dream on, though, right?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:48 a.m. CST

    GeneralFLintstone

    by Aquatarkusman

    In this case, your definition of "entertainment" would have to be elastic enough to cover warmed-over "somebody is somebody's secret daddy" plot devices.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:49 a.m. CST

    Clearly...

    by Jaka

    ...he didn't read the post show talkbacks.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:50 a.m. CST

    RongoRongoMu, you REALLY believe that "questions are

    by Coughlins Laws

    better left unanswered"? Really? Maybe some, but almost EVERYTHING was left unanswered. We don't really know what the island is. we were never explained what the Black Smoke was. We don't know why Jacob chose to do what he did. we don't really know what The Others were doing or if they even knew what they were doing. The Lighthouse wasn't explained. we don't know why Jacob could live forever, unless he was stabbed. We don't know how MIB figured out the Donkey Wheel could send you somewhere else in time and place. We don't know who that woman who killed Jacob and MIB's mother was. We don't know if Locke was ever really special at all. we don't know what Widmore was up to. We don't know why the nuclear bomb didn't kill them but sent them 30 years in the future. We don't know what the significance of the Temple was. We don't really know anything relevant. Now, that might be good enough for some people, but it obviously wasn't good enough for most of the people who ever watched the show. The audience for the last season was 1/2 to 1/3 of the people who watched it the first couple of seasons. And it appears that over half the people who actually stuck around for the finale didn't not like it. In fact, many despised it. So, I think it's safe to say that only about a quarter of the people who watched it the first season are satisfied with how it ended.<p>Look, I liked individual parts of the Finale. It DID have some touching scenes. But the overall picture showed that it was all shallow, it didn't even really matter. It was, for all intents and purposes, a dream ending. Puragatory, whatever. If it happened in their heads, it was a shared dream. It makes ZERO sense and had NOTHING to do with what happened on the island. Those scenes just seemed to be there to distract us from the lack of closure on the island. 6 years of tension foreshadowing a final showdown between Jack and Locke, and we get Kate shooting him in the back and him falling off a cliff? And it WASN'T EVEN really Locke!!!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:50 a.m. CST

    The producers don't "give" a show for free

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    It's paid for every time I buy a product that advertises during the program. The Simpsons got it wrong. The economic engine that drives TV is completely separate from the pact between an author and his audience. If they "gave it for free," no writer, director, producer, or actor would ever make a dime. In Bart's equation, all TV (or movies or books) would have to repay the money from every dissatisfied consumer... or channel their work on an individual basis to its audience. "Okay, what do you want me to write in the next chapter?"

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:52 a.m. CST

    So, General Flintstone

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    You like every show on TV, huh? Nothing to criticize in any of them 'cause they're free, right? You get AIDS from a chick, no right to complain 'cause you had the sex?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:53 a.m. CST

    LOST - the AIDS of tv shows!

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    LOL at myself! Sure, the sex was great for five seasons, but this drug cocktail I gotta take SUX!!!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:53 a.m. CST

    The Bicycle Sharer

    by RongoRongoMu

    Believe me, I've read enough criticisms to fill an encyclopedia. I've been having this debate since the finale on message boards and blogs, simply because I'm baffled by the number of people who turned on the show in the final few episodes. First of all, 90% of what came out of Damon and Carlton's mouths was bullshit through the entire run of the show, INCLUDING that they had the whole thing mapped out. I think they had a very rudimentary mythology mapped out but absolutely nothing specific-- they were doing that in arcs season-by-season. Now, you can feel free to bash Damon and Carlton all you want for lying through their teeth to make themselves seem like geniuses-- I'm not debating that point at all. But if you take the show as a work by itself-- and that's what will be remembered twenty years from now, not "Darlton Official Podcast Number Eleventy Billion" or what have you-- it's a complex mythology that answers some major questions while leaving some things dangling and some things open-ended or up for interpretation. I'm not saying it's perfect. Some of the very early stuff, like Aaron's specialness and Libby's past-- seems to have vanished into thin air in later seasons. My point is that to answer every last bit of minutiae that confused people would have been moronic and ruined the show. Second point, my reason for being annoyed at the haters who started bashing the show round about "Across the Sea" is that you would have to have been a complete idiot not to realize about a half dozen episodes into season 6 that you weren't going to get all the answers. Even before season 6 started, any rational person looking at the amount of time left to tell the story would have no choice but to conclude that they couldn't possibly have stuffed all the answers into 18 more hours unless they literally stood in front of the camera and just started rattling them off a list on primetime TV. All that having been said, it doesn't negate the sheer emotional power of the finale. None of the griping about answers holds water next to the experience of watching the finale in a room of 12 other people laughing, cheering, and ultimately with tears streaming down their faces as Christian entered the light and Jack's eye closed. You just can't argue with that experience because it's visceral, emotional, and that is what great art is. As for squaring my two statements, there is a difference between trying to piece together a mystery and exposing oneself to new ways of thinking about the major elements of the human condition-- faith, redemption, reconciliation, duty, and a higher purpose. Side note, DeadAtRecess, six of the questions you listed WERE answered in the show. Were you paying attention?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:55 a.m. CST

    Speaking of AIDS

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    How the FUCK is Magic Johnson still alive? Motherfuckers dropping like flies in Africa but this guys had it like twenty years and still going strong! I don't know. Maybe he really does have a "magic johnson!"

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:58 a.m. CST

    The lost finale was:

    by Novaman5000

    Emotionally, surprisingly, satisfying. I didn't mind the limbo shit and how that paid off<p> That being said, mythologically, intellectually even, it was totally unsatisfying. The answers we got were generic "magic glowing cave" answers that were just beyond weak. "The island is the cork" is not a fucking answer, it's an analogy... And a poor one at that. It astounds me that the same writers that gave us Season 3's epic finale, could have half-assed these Season 6 reveals SO BADLY.<p> I mean, 6 episodes in a fucking temple that went NOWHERE! We didn't learn about the sickness, all the characters we spent time with in the beginning of the season die before we get ANY answers from them... Kind of galling, actually.<p> I still love the show, the bad final season can't erase that. It's provided some of the best episodes of TV in recent memory, undeniably. I just can't help but feel like the pooch was completely screwed during this final season. A damn shame.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, noon CST

    I think the worst moment of season 6 for me was:

    by Novaman5000

    Hurley: So the whispers are dead people on the island?<p> Michael: Yup.<p> .... Really? That's how you're going to answer a 6 year long mystery?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:03 p.m. CST

    But the first five seasons were good right? WRONG!

    by Dapper Swindler

    Lost was a mystery show and a mystery is only enjoyable when you believe it is going end with a satisfying conclusion. If I had known that they were making up all this shit with no plan then I would not have enjoyed any of the episodes. It's not like the Office where you can have a bad episode one week and a good episode the next week and it's fine. Go ahead and try rewatching Lost and see how entertaining those episodes are now.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:04 p.m. CST

    Anyone who still thinks LOST was a dream or purgatory...

    by Zardoz

    ...is a total fucking moron. I loved the show and thought the finale was totally satisfying. Sure, there were some un-answered questions, but none that mattered enough to bother me. All of the major ones that mattered to me were answered. And I will be bidding on several items in the LOST auction. In fact, I already have my catalog: Hello, Hurley's Camaro!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:06 p.m. CST

    Rongo

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Agreed on the bullshit from Cuse and Lindelof as well as the "mapped out" stuff. Agreed wholeheartedly. And I also agree on the "explaining EVERYTHING" argument you make. I do, however, disagree on the "visceral" and "emotional" argument. Great art can ALSO be logical and make sense. Everything that you note about the major elements (faith, redemption, reconciliation, duty, and higher purpose) aren't exclusive of explanations. And I guess I'm one of the idiots you note 'cause, though I started to feel that rug being pulled during "Across the Sea," I still held out hope that purgatory was what they'd implied - a side timeline - and that this would figure into the plot, not as an addendum for character closure. Character closure, faith, redemption, reconciliation, duty, and higher purpose aren't exclusive of logic, sense, and explanations. And, as an aside, even with the explanation that we were given, I might have been a little more forgiving had one of the characters in the show vocalized what the producers and many of the defenders suggest --<p>JACOB: Jack, you can have answers or you can save your friends.<p>That having been said, dude, I, too, spent the finale laughing, crying, cheering, etc. It wasn't till the next day when I realized that was it, no explanations and no more show, that I realized I'd gotten screwed. That's when the anger set in. That having been said, just remember, most of the vitriol here is just overblown internet rhetoric and most of the "haters" are just those of us who wanted and expected more 'cause we loved the show. And how can you blame a rapt audience for daring to trust Cuse and Lindelof's statements about explanations and having it all "mapped out?"

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:07 p.m. CST

    RongoRongMu, of course it was apparent the longer S6

    by Coughlins Laws

    was going that they weren't going to answer everything. But how could we stop watching after already putting int 110+ hours? That'd be like turning off a movie like, say, The Sixth sense with 5 minutes to go. You had to stick it out till the end. Believe me, had I known it would end like this, I would have stopped watching halfway through Season 4. Hindsight is 20/20. That doesn't mean I can't bitch about it. Also, you can't just discount the producers constant chatting about the show. TV shows aren't in a vaccuum anymore. They used every bit of the new media to promote the show. They used the internet, podcasts, fan-fiction, video games, webisodes, chatrooms, etc, to keep people hooked until the end. Alot of people probably would have given up much sooner had they not kept making promises they didn't deliver. The DVDs have all sorts of promises on how they'd wrap things up and made things seem significant that turned out to be irrelevant. So, they don't get a past. They MADE themselves part of the show, including going on Jimmy Kimmel post-finale, promising alternate endings (never hinting they'd be joke endings), and further shitting on their fans. Lost was very unique in the history of television with fans taking it so seriously and being very loyal, and they treated it like a joke, with their constant smirking and wink-wink attitude. They looked right at us and lied. If you want to give them a pass and continue to give them money, be my guest. But they deserve to be publicly mocked for the horrible ending of their show.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Hey, Zardoz, I despise that "straw man" argument

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    You understand that some of us dislike Lost's ending KNOWING that the ENTIRE show wasn't purgatory, but that the "flash sideways" was, indeed, purgatory, right? I mean, anyone who insists that the "flash sideways" wasn't purgatory or a dream is a total fucking moron.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:11 p.m. CST

    Zardoz, explain what the sideways were, then. It was

    by Coughlins Laws

    purgatory/limbo/dreamland. That's pretty much what Cristian Shepard said, and then it appeared he opened a door to go to heaven. If we're all so stupid, what do you say it was. It happened in their heads and it didn't really happen. Sounds like a dreamlike state to me...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:16 p.m. CST

    Eh?

    by DANGER_DIABOLIK_

    He chose 5...out of how many.....several thousand? Must have taken time to wittle through them all.....

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:18 p.m. CST

    Magic Johnson is still alive because-

    by Mr. Profit

    He's worth 700 million. That kind of money helps you get access to top of the line treatment, steroids, HGH, and everything needed to keep you alive and healthy. It is the reason why a lot of activists wanted him to stop endorsing drugs for the virus. It could have given people the false impression that the virus is an affordable and easy thing to manage because Magic was endorsing 1 pill (over a cocktail). When in reality he again can afford the best medical treatment that is available...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Even if you discount Cuse's and Lindelof's...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    External statements regarding the show, the characters and the plot still revolved HEAVILY around the nature and explanation of the island. If that suddenly takes a backseat to "characters" (and I disagree with this false dichotomy, but whatever), then maybe the writers should have a character note this. Just look at "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade." Nazi chick dies trying to get the Grail (the answers). Indy tries to save her then tries to save the Grail. His dad pulls him to safety with the phrase "let it go" and we, as the audience, aren't fucked in the ass.<p>I mean, something akin to the Sun and Jin scene.<p>INT. MAGIC CAVE - DAY.<p>Boulders crumble and tumble around Jack. The whole thing's coming apart. But just a few more minutes and he'll know everything, what it's all been about -- answers!<p>Kate is pinnned under a boulder. Hurley struggles to lift it. He can't. Nothing doing.<p>HURLEY: Jack! Jack, help! I can't lift it!<p>JACK: Just a few more minutes! I've almost got it!<p>HURLEY: Jack, it doesn't matter anymore! This place is coming apart! I need you! Help me! Help Kate!<p>Jack looks from Hurley and Kate to the <INSERT MAGUFFIN>. And he knows. He can have his answers or he can save his friends. It's just that simple.<p>Jack looks one last time at the <INSERT MAGUFFIN> and makes his decision. Jack turns away from the answers he's sought and rushes to help Hurley remove the boulder that's pinning Kate.<p>EXT. MAGIC CAVE - DAY.<p>Kate leans against Jack, Hurley by their side. They watch as the entrance to the cave collapses, forever sealing the answers from them.<p>JACK: Now we'll never know.<p>Hurley looks at Jack, really feeling for his friend.<p>HURLEY: Jack, I'm sorry.<p>Jack looks at Kate and Hurley. He smiles. Content in his decision.<p>JACK: It doesn't matter, Hurley. I made my decision.<p>He hands Kate to Hurley.<p>JACK: Get her to the plane, Hugo. Get her outta here. I gotta go stop Locke.<p>See? What the fuck was hard about that?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Obama's approval rating is at 41% according to Gallup.

    by Coughlins Laws

    I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. Now back to how much Damon & Lindelof should be driven out of the business...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:23 p.m. CST

    the anger is funny

    by Bouncy X

    i understand disappointment but to actually and honestly get angry over a tv show? wow...losers much? and i feel bad for that one person who invested 6yrs of their lives. i invested 18-22 hours a year for 6 years, maybe i watched it wrong. but really, actual anger over a television series? calling the producer names? my god...grow up kids. lol

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:25 p.m. CST

    Shit! Apparently...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    You can't put something in "<" and ">" brackets and have it show. Huh. Didn't know that. Well, in the above, it says "INSERT MAGUFFIN" after "Jack looks from Hurley and Kate to the ."

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:26 p.m. CST

    What the fuck!

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Okay the "" brackets means those little doohickeys over the comma and period keys on the keyboard. The greater than brackets.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Ah! The word choice argument!

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Disappointment is more valid than anger. Okay then "disappointed as a motherfucker," how's that? That meet your word choice/emotional reaction validity criteria?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:29 p.m. CST

    And it also says...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Jack looks one last time at the "INSERT MAGUFFIN" and makes his decision.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:31 p.m. CST

    LMAO! Calling some "losers"

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    While decrying their calling producers names? How very consistent of you, loser!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:38 p.m. CST

    the fishing here is great.

    by Bouncy X

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:39 p.m. CST

    gotilk & Anaximandar

    by Cheif Brody

    "But as the weeks went by, it kind of settled in and started to bother me". --gotilk <p> Same here, dude. <p> "The Charlie/Claire and Juliet/Sawyer scenes had me all emotional, but then you find out they were dead and don't get a do-over - this cheats me out of that emotion. If your dead, it doesn't matter, becaus the stakes are nil". --Anaximandar <p> My singular biggest problem with the finale in a nutshell. <p> It's about the journey...not the destination? Well...I ended up in a Walmart parking lot in Fresno. <p> And that sucks.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:41 p.m. CST

    All valid tweets.

    by fiester

    Lindelof is a hack and a cheapshot con man who pulled the wool over many eyes (though not mine). <p> It was obvious to anyone with a modicum of narrative intelligence that this was a big shaggy dog story in the making from the ending of the first season. Only suckers kept with it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:44 p.m. CST

    I found Sawyer's reunion with Juliet unconvincing.

    by cookylamoo

    Because he'd probably spent the last twenty years doing Kate. Unless, of course, the plane crashed.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:44 p.m. CST

    I loved the journey and I love the finale

    by paburrows

    I felt that the character arcs wrapped up nicely. I'm currently re-watching the entire series and nearly everything makes sense to me and I have been able to figure out an answer to almost everything. I still love Lost and hope that theres more shows like it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:47 p.m. CST

    paburrows

    by lostboytexas

    the fucking premiere kool-aid drinker. seriously on medication, no other explanation.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:48 p.m. CST

    The answers we did get.

    by cookylamoo

    Were pretty banal. Like, what would happen if Smokey destroyed the Island and left....not much.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Chief Brody

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Hear, hear!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:50 p.m. CST

    Paburrows

    by cookylamoo

    The kind of sheep that give networks their wool.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:51 p.m. CST

    If the show was about "the characters"

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Why'd they have to go back to the island? Hmmm? Oh, yeah, I guess reconciliation and redemption and relationships are impossible without the island. (Guess that explains my first divorce.)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:54 p.m. CST

    "Explaining" any more would be like...

    by Keblar

    trying to explain the meaning of life and existence, as well as whether there exists a God and precisely what that God entails. Trying to "explain" any more literally than they did would inevitably fail no matter what it was. Why not put a little legwork into developing some abstract thinking skills instead of expecting everything to be handed to you Barney style intellectually. That and maybe don't invest the entirety of your own self-worth in a TV show. Perhaps then you might find the same rewarding experience that those of us who enjoyed the finale did, which was about as rewarding as one should expect from TV, even rising above the vapid wasteland as it was. OH, and BTW: 42! You, happy now? Good, now quit whining.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:55 p.m. CST

    guys guys guys

    by lostboytexas

    as much as I love a good argument (and busting lost fans balls), there really is nothing to discuss about this show anymore. it was 100% farce. those fans who sat through all the shit until the end got fucked. the end. <p>L O S T

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:55 p.m. CST

    If only I'd pretended...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    That I was trying to solve a mystery while constantly changing sides and stabbing others in the back and then conveniently leaving out explanations for the sole intent of furthering mystery and suspense (when said explanations - Jacob, MIB, the cave, etc. might have saved lives and made sense), I'd still be with the ex-wife. Or meet her in purgatory. Come to think of it, fuck that shit. I'm glad I didn't pull a "Cuse/Lindelof." Fuck that bitch!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:56 p.m. CST

    I watched them all back to back...

    by pdennett316

    and I thoroughly enjoyed the series as a whole, and I shed some manly tears at the finale. I had no problem with it at all, then again I wasn't bombarded with marketing and articles weekly stating there'd be answers to all the questions and the like. <p> I thought the jump sideways parts were an alternative universe type deal created by the incident rather than the lead up to them all meeting up when they died, I'd have preferred if the alternate timeline somehow mirrored the main one in terms of who survived, who died, who ended up together etc. to reinforce their destinies being interlinked no matter what. I had no problem with that ending as the concept of meeting up with loved ones in the afterlife is a good one. Logically it makes little sense due to all dying at different times etc, but it's death...we don't have a clue what happens.<p> I think all the big and important questions were addressed, stuff like the four toed statue etc. really don't bother me - it's just a weirdo statue on a special island that has mystical/spiritual importance. I don't need to know the inside leg measurements of the guy who built it you know? I get that some folks do...I don't.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:56 p.m. CST

    did Keblar just compare a shitty tv show

    by lostboytexas

    to the meaning of life and all existence??? surely not! no ones that fucking retarded!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:57 p.m. CST

    LOST finale took a serious hit in the UK

    by Prisoner_Zero

    ...in my estimation, when the TV series "Ashes to Ashes" utilized almost the exact same ending, just two or three days earlier, but to an effect about 1000000x greater than LOST. See, Ashes actually WAS always about the ending that was revealed, in that case it WAS planned from the very beginning, and the clues given throughout the series were relevant because the writers DID know where they were going. LOST writers tried to make the same claims for their own ending, but were blatantly talking out of their collective asses.<br /><br />I don't really HATE the ending to LOST, but I do feel I might've had somewhat more regard for it if they hadn't been pipped to the post in a resoundingly superior manner.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 12:59 p.m. CST

    Keblar

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Only if the island was God. I can think of plenty of shit that might've explained more. Alien spaceship, a wrinkle left over from the Big Bang, flash-sideways is ACTUALLY alternate timeline. You know what make me happy, though? You with a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger. Why not put a little legwork into purchasing a pistol at your local pawnshop. Then I'll have a rewarding experience and stop my whining.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 1:01 p.m. CST

    Keblar is!

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    That fucking retarded. Seriously. It's been proven. Scientifically. In limbo.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 1:02 p.m. CST

    You know what's worse than a "loser" "whining" about a TV show

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Another loser whining about the whining. "But why do you gotta whiiiiiiine about Lost? Can't you get a liiiiiife?"

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 1:03 p.m. CST

    It was also rather disconcerting.

    by cookylamoo

    That the main villain of the series who murdered and betrayed dozens of people ends up getting exactly what he wants.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 1:03 p.m. CST

    Keblar - what retarded cops wear!

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    It makes the bullets MORE damaging!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Wait, who you mean, Cookylamoo?

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Jacob? MIB?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Keblar explodes upon impact...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    (Any impact, even falling down) turning into thousands of tiny pieces of shrapnel that penetrate your brain and kill you instantly!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Bouncy X, don't try to pretend that you're any better than

    by Coughlins Laws

    anyone else on this talkback. The very fact that you took the time to register on this site, pick a goofy name, read this talkback, and then comment, shows that you are just as nerdy or a "loser" as anyone else here. When it all boils down to it, anyone that takes time to read or post anything about entertainment is talking about something trivial. Whether you like something, or dislike something, you are STILL wasting your time. So, to paraphrase Obi-Won Kenobi, "Who's more of a loser, the loser, or the one's reading what the loser said so they can call them a loser?"

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 1:16 p.m. CST

    Guess the big baby's lucky...

    by HarryKnowlesNonExistentInceptionReview

    ...that I don't have a TWitter account, because those quotes are lightweight compared to the new one I woulda ripped him!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 1:31 p.m. CST

    I'm talking about Ben Linus, of course!

    by cookylamoo

    The Bad guy in more episodes that anyone else. Ben slaughters people left and right because he wants to sit at the right hand of God and in the end, there he is, right where he wanted to be. And after everyone leaves, he'll control Purgatory, too.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 1:35 p.m. CST

    Ah, yes! Sorry! To clarify, re: purgatory.

    by Zardoz

    Yes, the Sideways world WAS purgatory. Sorry. I was referring to the morons that thought the ENTIRE SHOW, seasons 1-6, were ALL a dream/purgatory. And to be honest, I was also somewhat underwhelmed with the Sideways/purgatory revelation, but that (minor) disappointment was countered by the emotional payoff from the same. It was quite a clever plot device actually. By doing this, the writers were able to have their cake and eat it, too. Think about it: on the island, you have a hard-core, consequence-driven reality, where people make noble sacrifices and die. And in the real world, there is often no closure, no grand finale. But where's the happy ending in this reality, especially if Jack dies at the end? By incorporating the Sideways/purgatory/afterlife, you can have a powerful, emotional, "happy" ending, one which shows that the characters lives and sacrifices throughout the show had meaning and importance: these lives meant something. To themselves, to each other and especially, to us. That's why I liked the finale: it gave everything a powerful emotional and intellectual payoff, one that I have never experienced before on network TV. Did I love LOST? Yes, I did. And the finale was the perfect culmination of the love that I had for the both characters and the show. (And I'm still looking forward to "LOST: The Movie." You know it will happen. Someday... :)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 1:50 p.m. CST

    The Bicycle Sharer

    by RongoRongoMu

    Yeah, I realize that most of what is said in here is hyperbole. Many of the people who trash the show in here are just voicing complaints but are still going to buy the box set and watch it all again. I, too, am not my usual self in here or I wouldn't use words like "idiot" to describe others :-)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 1:55 p.m. CST

    I'm not going to by the next season. I bought seasons

    by Coughlins Laws

    1 through 4 and have no plans to buy 5 or 6. I have no desire to rewatch anything I've seen the last 2 years from that show...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 1:58 p.m. CST

    if you didn't like it, fine, BUT

    by mrgray

    stop acting like every fan was disappointed. Or that even the majority of fans were disappointed. Your anger is your anger and is shared by your people. Me, I was perfectly satisfied. And I'm neither an idiot nor an easy mark.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:09 p.m. CST

    I loved the finale

    by godric

    Thought the finale was brilliant. And as far as unanswered questions, yes, there were too many, but not as many as people think. Wrote a blog about it: http://johnbook. wordpress.com/

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:13 p.m. CST

    mrgray, you honestly believe that the majority of the

    by Coughlins Laws

    people who saw the finale liked it? I beg to differ. Judging by most of the reactions we've seen, it looks like the vast majority of those who were fans since the first season did NOT like how the show ended. Prove me wrong...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Things on LOST that were lame

    by DarthLizardKing

    Someone on here nailed it a couple weeks back, when they said the "answers" they imagined were way better than what we got. Example: *How lame was it that the Black Rock ended up in the middle of the island via tsunami, and that it knocked the statue down on the way in? Feels like something they made up while chatting at the urinal during a break in a writer's meeting. *The skeletons. Kind of makes it extra-lame that even though MIB's dead body was in the cave, he still gets to walk around the island in his human form. Dumb. *They could have hit a home run by throwing in a twist about who those people were in the jungle, the ones who Jacob and MIB were watching as kids. How about if the castaways turn the wheel again in the finale, and end up back in those days, thus explaining why Jacob was so hung up on them in the first place.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:21 p.m. CST

    @mrgray - The majority of fans were disappointed.

    by OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWW

    My imaginary sources are better than your imaginary sources. (Also, if they weren't, Lindelof wouldn't be in apologist mode.)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:22 p.m. CST

    L*O*S*T... a greater failure than HEROES

    by ToMonicker

    For all the reasons Mr.Profit stated, pretty much. And the RANCOR! <p> Sure, LOST had some great characters, but that is another reason why some of us were oh-so-pissed at their horrible conclusions. <p> This ridicule by the FINALE SUPPORTERS, is funny considering we have one thing in common; we watched it to the end. Plenty of people I know just loved ragging on LOST- especially making cute jabs via the title of the show. How horrible it was to realise in retrospect, just how close to the truth they actually were. <p> Unlike HEROES which I ditched in Season Two and watched my room-mate and others get disillusioned with in Season 3, I went the whole way with LOST in denial. <p> For sure, I don't think about LOST a single second these days unless a TALKBACK about it pops up; I'm done with it's "mysteries", for good or ill, they wrapped it up. There's no do over or extra footage or media supplement that will change that. <p> I'm sure Damon believes he did the best he could. It'd be actually much sadder if he knew he could have done better.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:26 p.m. CST

    As for Season Six,

    by DarthLizardKing

    Not everyone needs every specific thing answered for them, via Matthew Fox looking directly at the camera and enlightening us. But a few things about the last season that don't add up: *The bomb: meaningless? Or, did it in some way contribute to the creation of the sideways world? I thought the season five finale was the best episode of the series, but if it all ends up as nothing, that's weak. *How does one "end up" in the sideways world? I mean, did everyone there have a childhood? Did they grow up, turn into men and women? Or did they just "Presto!" end up there one day all confused? *Can't believe they gave Jack a son who wasn't real. Was he just a "creation" like the people in the dreams of "Inception?" Whatever. *Why is MIB considered so evil when one could argue Sayid and Ben did things in their lives that were far worse? *Speaking of Sayid, why does he get to go to church and Michael does not? Michael didn't do enough to make up for his sins by blowing himself up, like Sayid did? And Ben made fricking genocide, as well as killed numerous random people (who remembers how he blasted that dude from "Three Kings" on the beach with a shotgun? *What exactly would have happened if MIB had gotten off the island?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:28 p.m. CST

    LOST a bigger failure than HEROES?

    by D.Vader

    You must be smoking crack to actually believe such a foolhardy position =P.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Heroes sucked from Season One

    by RPLocke

    But Lost went through five seasons before it started to suck. Sixth Season was awful save for a handful of episodes. Also, Lost haters hated on the show since season one,yet they continued to watch. That's funny.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:29 p.m. CST

    As for Ben.....

    by DarthLizardKing

    In the Sideways world, Ben and his father had, in fact, been to the island and joined Dharma. So, if the island existed in the sideways world, and was now on the ocean floor, what the hell does that mean?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:31 p.m. CST

    First season of LOST

    by ufoclub1977

    Just rewatched the intial pilot... boy that's good! There are styles of dialogue and camera shots that surpass entire seasons of the show later on. I am disappointed with the plot conclusion of LOST based on what my imagination was developing based on the first two seasons... BUT... the final was emotionally satisfying as far as the characters. Also I loved the BSG finale... did it not fit with the religious mystical tone that was there from almost the beginning?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:32 p.m. CST

    What's sad, that someone said everything they imagined

    by Coughlins Laws

    would have been better. I believe that, too. And I wonder if possibly this affected how they ended it. I know how closely they paid attention to all the fan theories. I wonder if one of the fan theories was dead on or pretty close so they felt they had to change the ending. It wouldn't surprise me. But I'm pretty sure none of the fans guessed that the island was some kind of cork plugging up Hell, or whatever bullshit they showed us. To me, it's kind of like watching The Matrix Sequels. They made the first Matrix so damn good, that you were willing to wade through the bullshit of Reloaded and by the time you watch Revolution, you realize that all that incredible set up and exposition of the first movie was just to boil down to a mindless action movie. It seemed more epic before the two sequels totally deflated the epic story...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:36 p.m. CST

    well put, zardoz!

    by Colonel_Blimp

    your last post, that is. <P>Question to the ones feeling cheated with the finale: <br>If you hadn't already seen the show, but knew most of the episodes where top notch, but that the resolution was disappointing (for the record, I loved the ending, but can see how some felt let down). Would you watch the show anyway, considering how much enjoyment you would have, in spite of the ending? <P>This question of course isn't valid for those of you who've never enjoyed Lost. <P>It just seems so strange to me that what you consider a disappointing finale somehow nullifies all the enjoyment the show has given you over the years.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:55 p.m. CST

    Colenel_Blimp, I don't know. If the season 3 finale was the

    by Coughlins Laws

    last episode, I'd be alot less pissed than this. I loved alot of episodes from the first 3 seasons. I can't really say I loved anything in seasons 4-6. And I can't say I'd have liked to watch just the great episodes because you need the background in order to appreciate The Brig or The Man From Tallahassee. I'd say no, I wish I hadn't watched any of Lost. For the amount of time I had to put in, it was just too unsatsifying of a conclusion. To me it's the equivalant of watching The Godfather, and then at the end, it turns out Michael Corleone was a robot the whole time, or something equally as silly. As good as most of the movie was, the terrible ending undermines most of what you've seen, because it changes the character and meaning of almost every scene. Now that I know the ending of Lost, most of the great earlier episodes seem like a waste of time. The fact that they made the most interesting character, John Locke, nothing but a pawn of a character we never see until the episode before the final season is a complete disgrace. John Lock, many people's favorite character, was built up to be special, and he was shown that he might have some kind of special connection with the island. You end up rooting for him to fulfill his destiny after such a depressing and disappointing life. You want him to claim his mantle as the leader of The Others. And then, all of a sudden, it turns out he's nothing special at all and gets killed a season and a half before the end. So, yeah, if I knew how it ended, I wouldn't have watched at all...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:58 p.m. CST

    Ah, you are referring to "The RoboGodfather"...

    by Colonel_Blimp

    He'll make you an offer you can't compute.<P> Great movie.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Actually its about 50/50 with fans and haters

    by paburrows

    I have read just as many fans responses over all of the internet communities as haters.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:01 p.m. CST

    To be fair though the final season was fucking terrible.

    by Smashing

    Like scream at the tv so much you wrench your shoulder muscle and are left in agony bloody terrible, and the final denouement, a slap in the face, what happened to cool exciting story telling? it was absent in season 6.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:02 p.m. CST

    Baaaaaaaaa and proud of it

    by paburrows

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Blimp, see my earlier post

    by Dapper Swindler

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:08 p.m. CST

    The last one was actually me...

    by Fa_Tass_DinoMolester

    EAT SHIT AND DIE, MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:10 p.m. CST

    The only people who hated the Lost finale...

    by HoboCode

    are the arrogant, pedantic, self-flagellating, emotionally stunted, basement-dwelling freaks that post on AICN all day. This of course excludes myself and any Room 23ers that may be present. Anyone with half a brain, half a heart, or half a dick liked it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Answer to Colonel Blimp

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Depends on what you mean by "watch the show." Possibly, in other words.<p>If you mean, week after week after week, missing other shows (and sometimes missing shit to do outside of my house), theorizing and investing in the tale and such, then no. I wouldn't watch the show.<p>If you mean "watch the show" as in "occasionally tune in an episode," then yeah. But again I certainly wouldn't invest as much in the show. It would then be akin to Dollhouse or Law & Order or Rizzoli & Isles or The Glades or any other piece of disposable television (not to trash any of the preceding shows) - I'd watch it if I had time, if there was nothing else on, and if the particular episode seemed engaging. So, a case-by-case basis.<p>However, what's key here is that Lost really can't be watched as a single episode viewing kinda deal. It's purposefully wrought as one complete show. I can tune into any of the aforementioned shows (or Angel or House, etc.) and be engaged with a specific tale that will be resolved within the episode (catch the killer, stop the demon, discover the disease, pretend to be "scientist" or whatever) and still feel fully satisfied with a self-contained story that has a beginning, a middle and an end. Very few episodes of Lost can say the same - the show was designed to be seen as a multi-episode tapestry.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Well, you certainly count in the "half a dick" category

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Or so your mom tells me. But not often. I don't let her talk with my cock in her mouth.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Homocode - lovin' Lost with his half dick...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    And half brain, half-heartedly!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:15 p.m. CST

    Good one bicycle.

    by HoboCode

    But my mom said she can talk just fine with your dick in her mouth. She only uses it as a toothpick anyway.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Homocode!

    by HoboCode

    Never heard that one. Another zinger. You have a rapists wit.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:17 p.m. CST

    LOL, Rongo!

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Point made and taken! Shit, who on here posts like they'd talk if we were all sitting in a fucking room together? There'd be a shit load more of "why, yes, sir, I would indeed like to take a moment, if you would be so kind, to disagree with you" and shit load less of "fuck you, you ignorant goddamned cock-licking piece of shit." That is, unless some of us wanted to get a fist shoved down our throats. (Not talking to you here, Homocode - we know where you like fists shoved.)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:18 p.m. CST

    I don't say 6 years wasted

    by theGoldbergV

    I say I loved LOST for 5 years. I really don't like season 6 AT ALL. Its like the film Sunshine, anyone seen it? The first 2/3 of that film is brilliant, then final act is crap. Does that make the whole film crap? No. But it does affect any enjoyment it can bring on re-watch. <P><P>One of my fave LOST eps was The Man Behind The Curtain. We'd been building up to Jacob for about a year, and now here he was. A creepy cabin, a mysterious voice and then a blink-and-you'll-miss-it glimpse of "Jacob". At the time, I was like, WOW. So this is where they're going with it, I thought. I remember going over all the bits in the cabin, the jars, the paintings, why was Jacob scared of technology, why could you only be "summoned" to see him? etc etc <p><p>Having seen the rest of the "movie", that ep just confuses me now. For starters, I guess its not Jacob at all, its MIB. But the ash ring is intact, who is the "help me" voice? etc etc. The intrigue and mystery of that episode is destroyed by what came after. Because you realise that all the mystery comes from just random weirdness that has no pay-off. Now not all of LOST is like that, but a lot of what made it so good is tainted in that way. Of course, its all just my opinion

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:19 p.m. CST

    Coughlins Law

    by Bouncy X

    but i'm not getting upset, like actually and truly angry over a freakin tv show. and i picked this "goofy name" years before i knew this site even existed so there. lol... but seriously, i'm not judging people for being "nerds", i'm just judging them for getting so upset over these things and seemingly taking it all so personally. maybe its because i wasnt as obsesed with this show as some but i have been that obsessed over a show before (X-Files) and it had a terrible final season and final episode too, so i know how it feels. but i didnt get angry or pissed, its just a show you know? sucks that it went down that way but thats tv for ya. some here seem so pissed off that it amazes me. but all that said, i'm canadian and we're so used to being inferior, i cant help but try and feel superior. :P

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:20 p.m. CST

    Well, Homocode, I just goes with what your mom gives me

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Both rhetorically and physically! And while I may have a rapist's wit, you, by your own admission, have half a dick, half a brain, and half a heart!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:21 p.m. CST

    I used to know some chicks who were "bouncy"

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    On X!!! Guess what they liked to "bouncy" on!<p>And, damn, Bouncy X, I gots to agree with you on X Files. Fuck, that show screwed the shit outta the pooch!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Six years wasted?

    by Royston Lodge

    It was an hour-long show, about 24 episodes a year.<p> In total that's approximately 144 hours of television, give-or-take. I don't feel like taking into account 2-hour season finales and the different number of episodes each season.<p> By a numerological coincidence, 144 hours works out to exactly 6 days.<p> If LOST was truly a complete waste of your time, then Darlton owes you 6 DAYS of your life back, not 6 YEARS.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:24 p.m. CST

    theGoldbergV

    by HoboCode

    Who said the ash wasn't disturbed? Because it wasn't where Ben and Locke walked in? It's not like they walked the perimeter.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:24 p.m. CST

    Cookylamoo

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Good point regarding Ben (the main villain) getting everything he wanted. Goes hand-in-hand with Charlie kicking drugs and dying to save others then waking up in purgatory as an asshole heroin addict.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:25 p.m. CST

    Yes, LOST is a BIGGER failure, D.Vader

    by ToMonicker

    Because proportionally it was greater show. " TV rots your brain like crack cocaine. " So does the internet. <p> I watched both, HEROES had potential, that it screwed up at the end of Season 1 and kept on growing worse. LOST got better as it went along for the most part. It seems there are differing opinions to when the shit hit the bed, but I really enjoyed it up to Season 5 finale. So yeah, now that I'll never care to see LOST again after Season 6. Heroes' failure pales.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Coughlins Laws

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    First, I can't believe we agree on something. We've had some mighty battles in the past, comrade. That said...<P> You say the MATRIX sequels diluted the greatness of the original? How so? Yes, the original is great, and ends with The One coming to terms with who he is and his near-limitless powers over and inside the Matrix itself. Fair enough - awesome stuff.<P> RELOADED then tells us what it must be like to be The One (read: Messiah, Bodhisattva, Buddha, whatever) and how normal people in Zion would perceive you. It then goes into how there are now greater threats in the Matrix than before - and we learn how the greatest threat of all, Agent Smith, has been made as powerful as he is directly through what Neo did to him at the end of THE MATRIX. And it ends, after arguably one of the greatest action scenes ever put on celluloid (the freeway scene), with a new revelation: that the One can influence things out in the REAL world (when Neo brings down the Sentinel) and that Agent Smith is now out in a real body in the real world too.<P> Then REVOLUTIONS takes the stakes even higher - Agent Smith has finally managed to almost destroy the Matrix itself in his quest to destroy Neo, the Machines are at war with humanity, and although the editing of the last third of the movie is utterly shite, we get to see how a Messiah's life eventually ends - Neo's martyrdom to ensure a peace between the Machines and Zion's humans, by eradicating the only thing powerful enough to destroy the Matrix, and eventually the Machines themselves - Agent Smith.<P> Those sequels exponentially increased the stakes, the action and the story both times - and you were unsatisfied? What WOULD have been preferable to you? I genuinely can't understand why so many keep dissing the MATRIX sequels - they absolutely expanded upon and greatly enriched the original mythology laid out in the first movie. From what I hear about the MMORPG, there's more than enough story for a return of Neo trilogy sequel too, if the Wachowskis wanted to go back to that world. I fucking LOVED the Matrix sequels - as much for their ambition as anything else. Would you REALLY have never wanted to see Zion, see the battle for the Dock, or the freeway chase, or Neo vs a thousand Agent Smiths??<P> Coughlins, you are dead inside... ;P

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:26 p.m. CST

    The BSG ending WAS better

    by SithMenace

    Because at least they left it ambiguous enough so that you could make your own decision as to whether it was God or highly advanced aliens. Plus the ending of BSG didn't negate the entire series.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Lost is such a failure

    by RPLocke

    And it still got 13 Emmy noms. Eat it 30 Rock.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:27 p.m. CST

    See, Hobo

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    That's what people mean when they talk about Lost apologists. Right fucking there. This was an obvious fuck up with ash, but you gotta go with "did they walk the whole perimeter?" That shit is weak, man. Who disturbed it? Why bother showing it if you're not going to show it was broken, even for the audience and not the characters? I mean, they OBVIOUSLY fucked up there, but, like all apologists (not defenders, there is a difference), you gotta come up with some bullshit like that.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:28 p.m. CST

    By the way, HEROES Season 4 on BLU-RAY & DVD!

    by ToMonicker

    I hear it got sooo much better! *snicker* <p> And someday, I'll get around to buying that Yoda impaling a Clonetrooper Statue. *right*

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:30 p.m. CST

    Fair enough Hobocode

    by theGoldbergV

    so maybe it was disturbed. Nice of you to just pick up one one tiny bit of my post though. Cheers. While I'm on the cabin, if it is MIB (and not Jacob) then how come Hurley can see it all of a sudden? And why does Ben think its Jacob? I don't know why I'm asking these questions, there are NO answers! Oh well. <P><P>I just think that if you introduce the 'big bad' its not the best idea to then go back on everything later on. Which IMO, is what they did.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Royston

    by HoboCode

    You're not taking into account the hours upon hours of time these losers spent ridiculously going through every episode frame by frame, taking the time to figure out what the whispers were and listening to them, attending conventions, rewatching episodes, etc. Believe me, these fucking dorks probably did spend six years of their pathetic lives on a television show, you know, considering they had nothing better to do like travel, listen to music, read, socialize, look for their own apartments, or have sexual intercourse.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Here is why it wasn't good - it negated the stakes of the past

    by coconutgroves

    All the deaths and effects were without any real stakes since they were going to meet up in the in-between world and move on. The ending should have been like Inception, something that made you wonder, not go "oh well."

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Wow, Hobocode...

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    ...You've convinced me. I am an asshole for not loving that finale.<P> Oh, wait. No. YOU'RE the twat for not seeing why that finale was such a shitfest, and I am the man with an entire brain, entire dick, entire heart, and a basement I can't dwell in because it is full of old furniture and ancient alloy wheels. You just got pwned like a motherfucker, son.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:32 p.m. CST

    Heroes vs. Lost

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Heroes hit their shit slide at the end of the first season. Lost kept many of us hoping till the end. Which is the bigger failure? The horse (whores?) who stumbles coming outta the gate or the one who almost finishes then crashes? Eye of the beholder, I guess. On the one hand, Heroes never had me hanging on pins and needles for five and a half seasons - thank God! On the other hand, Heroes never had me hanging on pins and needles for five and a half seasons... and then left me hanging.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:32 p.m. CST

    coconutgroves

    by RPLocke

    But we didn't know what the Flash Sideways world was until the very end. They could have been in Hell.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:34 p.m. CST

    My problem with the Lost finale

    by Rob0729

    I didn't have a problem with them not wraping up the story in a nice little bow and answer all the questions. My problem with the story on the island was rushed to give a spotlight to the purgatory universe with a lot of highlight reel clips. The Man in Black who was immortal and unkillable was easily killed. The whole Desmond being special thing was anticlimatic. I would have loved to see that portion of the episode get more attention than it got rather than say seeing a bogus reunion between Sayid and Shannon who we treated as soul mates eventhough Sayid was in love with Nadia and only romantically involved with Shannon for about a week in island time before she died.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:34 p.m. CST

    I pwned his mom in the ass last night!

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    She loves a good deep pwning!<p>Pwn me, Bike Sharer! Pwn me like a dirty whore!<p>You *ARE* a dirty whore, Mrs. Hobocode! And your son's a half-dicked retard!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Bike Sharer...

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    ...My friend, these fucking apologists just won't be told. Their Kool Aid is too strong. Any moment soon they're going to launch into a spirited defence of the Unholy Prequels, and then all fucking hell will be let loose on this keyboard...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:38 p.m. CST

    The Bicycle Sharer

    by RPLocke

    never heard of the term Flash Sideways. He's still droning on about Purgatory. It's NOT Purgatory.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:39 p.m. CST

    RPLocke

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    So what if they were in hell? What's your point? Coconut said that the stakes didn't matter. And they didn't. Purgatory, heaven, or hell, none of it mattered. I mean, shit, look at the episode "Why They Died." It told us nothing. To protect the island? To stop MIB? Yes, okay, but WHY!!! See, they never explained why any of it mattered and they never showed it either. I mean, fuck, a word or two from Christian in purgatory ("Had you not made the sacrifice you did.. blah, blah, blah.") But what'd we get. Laughy, laughy, smiley, now Charlie's "good" (despite his asshole-ness), let's go to heaven.<p>Fuck me that was bullshit.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:39 p.m. CST

    If you're going to pwn somebody...

    by Royston Lodge

    ...at least be considerate enough to give them a reach-around while you do it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Do you sociopaths actually think a mom joke hurts me?

    by HoboCode

    What are you 12? Pathetic. you're not even trying. your just stringing together amalgams of insults used on the playground by grade-schoolers. I won't even go into the homophobia masking your true closeted feelings.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:42 p.m. CST

    HoboCode: Those extra hours were their own choice.

    by Royston Lodge

    Darlton only stole 144 hours. The rest of those hours were donated out of their own free will.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:42 p.m. CST

    The problem with The Matrix sequels is they took powers

    by Coughlins Laws

    away from Neo. He ended being so powerful he didn't even have to fight anymore, he could just absorb his enemies. Why was he back to Kung-Fu in the sequels? And, I also didn't like how they turned Morpheus from the guy who found "The One", into a crackpot that no one took seriously. And, how the Hell did Neo have powers in the real world when every power he had in the first movie was in his mind inserted into a computer. How did he all of a sudden have the power to destroy that one robot at the end of Reloaded. And how could you like the fact that it became a religous story. I don't know, I guess some people liked it, but I think they changed it too much from the original. The Matrix didn't need any sequels. Neo was all powerful at the end of The Matrix and was trying to show everyone how to wake up. I think the sequels were an unneeded waste of time...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:43 p.m. CST

    50/50 my vaganus

    by lostboytexas

    more like 90/10. only koolaid drinkers like lost. everyone else knows its shit you pill-popper!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:43 p.m. CST

    142 hours of entertainment. 2 hours of disappointment.

    by Royston Lodge

    Pretty good ratio, no?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:43 p.m. CST

    choosing these is a real dick move

    by BadMrWonka

    just one last fuck you to the loyal fans...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Gentlemen, please.

    by D.Vader

    Let's not go nuts over this.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Hey, fuck you, RPLocke, you goddamned moronic piece of shit

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    GO FUCK YOURSELF!!! Die you goddamned idiot. I'm sick of seeing your motherfucking name.<p>At least, you ass licking daddy sucking putrid excuse for a man, I know not to post...<p>"Dang, Iron Man 2 dropping like a rock<p>by RPLocke<p>May 12th, 2010<p>07:30:24 PM<p>at the box office. It wont even be around in a few weeks. James Cameron must be laughing his ass off."<p>On the motherfucking WEDNESDAY after the movie premiered! You're a fucking imbecile and you'd do the world a favor by just stopping breathing now.<p>I used the phrase, you rancid donkey dick fucking sideshow experiment, "flash sideways" multiple fucking times. But that term is THE SAME as "purgatory" 'cause the "flash sideways" wasn't SIDEWAYS it was FORWARDS AFTER THEIR FUCKING DEATHS IN THE GODDAMNED FUTURE YOU MORON!!! SO GODDAMN IT, JUST FUCKING DIE NOW PLEASE!!!<p>Flash sideways? Purgatory? At least I'm not ignorant enough to post that Iron Man 2 is "dropping like a rock" on the WEDNESDAY after it premiered. How does it feel to be so, so, so fucking wrong all the time AND to have a belly full of carny jizz?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:46 p.m. CST

    one last fuck you to the haters maybe.

    by HoboCode

    Damon "pwned" you. Damon "pwned" you. Ring around the rosy....

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:48 p.m. CST

    Wait, why tarnish the good name of Kool-Aid?

    by Royston Lodge

    I actually drink a SHIT-LOAD of Kool-Aid.<p> A packet costs a mere 45 cents, and make 2 litres of delicious primary-coloured, non-carbonated refreshment.<p> I use Sugar Twin instead of sugar, so my Kool-Aid is calorie-free.<p> STOP BEATING UP ON MY BELOVED KOOL-AID!!!<p> Jim Jones killed his followers with poisoned Flavor Aid, NOT Kool-Aid. SO FUCK YOU ALL YOU CRUEL INSENSITIVE BASTARDS!!!!<p> ;-)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:48 p.m. CST

    a 6-year cash grab, nothing more

    by BadMrWonka

    they found a formula, and they stretched it out as long as they could.<p> and it isn't what the ending was, it's what it wasn't. the finale wrapped up what, in a general sense, was going on. but it didn't address even a healthy fraction of all of the nonsense that's being going on for 6 years. this was truly just a finale for season 6, and that's it. do you people even REMEMBER all of the shit that was going on in previous seasons? that is all rendered COMPLETELY pointless right now. truly, totally meaningless. smoke monsters, numbers, hatches, others, yada yada yada... and if you have been watching for 6 years, and you DON'T feel duped, well...I guess you're a very forgiving person. <p> this show was just a 6 year crack binge for millions of people. they just kept coming back, and coming back, well beyond the point where it gave them the sense of enjoyment that it had in the beginning. but you couldn't stop, could you? it was just so exciting! what's going to happen next? but, what does it all mean? who cares! new episode next week! I need my fix! <p> now, you have a pseudo-copout ending, and hundreds of questions left unanswered, and definitive proof that the writers and creators were NOT dropping you cute little clues the whole time that would add up to some big reveal, they did NOT have everything all planned out, they did NOT intend for everything to tie in together. and how is that not a disappointment? <p> the sideways world is an afterlife/beforelife, alternative whatever, yada yada yada...fine. but that could have been one season. maybe 2 seasons. hell, a long movie could have done it. certainly a miniseries. but that's not as financially viable, is it? what could make more money, sell more DVD's, hook more doofus viewers in, than 6 years of crack binging?!?! yay!!! <p> this whole things was a calculated, manipulative cash grab. and everyone bought in, hook, line, and sinker. <p> god, where is The West Wing when you need it?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:50 p.m. CST

    Homocode loves the dick

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    He loves in his ass,<pAnd he loves in his mouth.<p>He loves it up north,<p>And he loves down south.<p>He loves it in the morning,<p>And he loves it at night,<p>And if you drop your pants right now,<p>He'd do you up just right!<p>(Homophobia? Listen, ass maggot, I got a gay brother and all kinds of gay friends out here. I live in Los Angeles, for God's sake. So you can take your "homophobia" and shove it in that nasty cunt bag you call a mom's mouth.)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:51 p.m. CST

    LOL! Choppah

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    I know that shit is right! That's was some of the worst? That's probably because the people who'd fucking really tell you how they feel Lindelof wouldn't be caught fucking dead doing something called "tweeting."

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:52 p.m. CST

    XOXO to Lindelof & Cruz

    by Cathy904

    If anyone 'invested' six years of their lives in "Lost" felt cheated, be honest. You weren't doing anything for 6 years at 8pm on Wednesday nights or 8pm on Tuesday nights the last season. If you weren't watching "Lost", it would have been some other television show. I didn't get all my questions answered, but since so much of the finale was Love, romantic and otherwise, I'm thinking that was the central message. Reunions of romantic love between the couples, selfless love as Jack watched the plane get away, friendship love at times the passengers risked their own lives for other crew members. Treasure if you have it and while you have it. If it sounds hokey, oh well. I walked away with a strange feeling of satisfaction from it. XOXO to Lindelof and Cruz.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Shit, there was a whole poem/song about..

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Homocode and his love of the cock. Somehow it got lost in the posting. Oh, well! Fuck him.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Ash and Hurley

    by paburrows

    The ash was broken, Illana stated/noticed that it was when she visited the abandoned cabin. Hurley was able to see the cabin since he had the ability to see Ghosts and other island based things like the cabin. Thats how he was also able to see the Lighthouse.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:53 p.m. CST

    I kicked that sand there

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    And that's where it's gonna stay!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:54 p.m. CST

    The Bicycle Sharer ah, the response of a hater

    by RPLocke

    He won't listen to your argument, he'll just call you names.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:54 p.m. CST

    BikeSharer

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    "As such, Lost, apparently, had a lot more overall negatives than overall positives." Yeah, except that people bitch about what they don't like. Nobody goes around bitching about what they like. Not as many people out there "defending" LOST is proof that there were more negatives? How fucking idiotic is that? You must have no knowledge of human nature or mass media. At all. Your continuing need to bash the show indicates nothing more than your own warped perception that you were owed an ending that catered specifically to you by people you'd never met. My continuing desire to let it speak for itself indicates that I'll live a longer more fulfilled life because it isn't filled with hate towards a fucking TV show.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 3:55 p.m. CST

    Nice catch, paburrows

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    I, for one, stand corrected. And Hobocode (donkey dick loving apologist that he is) STILL looks like a moron 'cause the intelligent people (there's that half a brain for ya, Homo!) who liked Lost caught that with Ilana and could explain it. Homocode couldn't. Well done, paburrows.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4 p.m. CST

    They never explained why

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    it would be bad if the MiB got off the Island because anybody with half a fucking brain can figure out it would be bad. Do you really need a character to tell you "Oh man, he could go even nutser and kill people or impersonate the president or fuck all kinds of shit up as a near invincible smoke pillar!! You don't want that shit, bro!" No one anywhere has yet been able to provide any solid evidence that proves any unanswered questions were thematically or logistically relevant.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4 p.m. CST

    The best finale of a sci fi series is still TNG

    by RPLocke

    Picard joining the poker game was brilliant. Still hasn't been topped.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:02 p.m. CST

    Oh, I answered your idiocy, RPCock

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    And I fucking called you some names! Hater? Of you? Abso-fuckin'-lutely! As long as you're still breathing up the oxygen that could be used by somebody else, then I'll still be hating you.<p>You constantly post inane shit like that about Iron Man 2 and then, about five talkbacks back on the Lost topic, you got fucking DECIMATED by your own fucking side!!! Pwned doesn't do what happened to you justice. You got motherfucking GODZILLAPWNED!!! You couldn't, to save your fucking life, make a logical argument that made sense in that last one. Or quote the right shit. Or reference the right incidents. Fucking nothing. NOTHING!!!<p>Just like Homocode. See, if I'm wrong, I gladly admit it (see the paburrows post above). But 99.999% of the time it's somebody else MUCH fucking brighter than you or Hobocode who gotta do the correcting 'cause at least those defenders of Lost fucking know what they're talking about.<p>Hey, RPLocke, I just checked the Box Office on Expendables and Scott Pilgrim! Looks like they're giant failures 'cause they haven't made any money. James Cameron must be laughing his ass off. Moron.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:02 p.m. CST

    Actuallty Bicycle.

    by HoboCode

    paburrow's explanation doesn't really hold water considering the cabin was probably empty because the ash was disturbed. it probably wasn't disturbed when MIB was still in there, hence him being trapped by the ash. Goldberg's question, now that i reread it was who said "help me" and he answered his own question. it was MIB trapped in the cabin. who trapped him and who set him free are open questions but does it really matter?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:04 p.m. CST

    Sigh. Koyaanisqatsi

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Fuck, man, I ain't a Lost apologist and even I know that MIB can't leave the island as a pillar of smoke. He had to be made mortal to leave. If he could've turned into a fucking pillar of smoke then he'd have destroyed Jack in about a second.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:05 p.m. CST

    No, RoystonLodge, it's more like 72 hours of great TV,

    by Coughlins Laws

    followed by 2 half seasons of so/so tv, followed by 10 episodes of pointless tv, followed by 4 hours of horrible, goodwill destroying, awful tv with a couple of cheap, shameless, emotion grabbing tv. The other thing about Lost, it wasn't just an underwhelming climax. Choices they made in the last two seasons have undone alot of the legwork they established in the first three seasons. It lessened characters, made characters pointless, and lessened the impact of most of the now pointless deaths. Lost did the unthinkable, they turned off most of their unbelievably loyal fans and made alot of people NOT like their show...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:07 p.m. CST

    BikeSharer

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    you just proved you weren't even paying attention. MiB had no idea he would become mortal. Nobody new what was going to happen. Not even Jacob (most likely). Got anything else I can shoot down like that?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:08 p.m. CST

    What the fuck, Hobo?

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    How does that even make sense? MIB wasn't trapped in the cabin. At any time. Ever.<p>Or you know what? You just created another entire show devoted to...<p>How MIB, the roving smoke monster who's gone all fucking over that island all the fucking time, got trapped in the cabin and...<p>How the smoke monster then got the fuck out to continue killing!<p>Fuck! Do you not realize how ridiculous that makes you sound? Seriously?<p>Ash was disturbed. Ilana noticed it. The "help me" was either a ruse by MIB or some sort of heart-felt plea to get off the island. (Probably neither, though. I highly fucking doubt that Jacob or MIB were even a thought when that shit was done, but I could be wrong.)

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:08 p.m. CST

    MIB getting off the island wasn't the stakes, moron.

    by HoboCode

    It was the fact that he had to put out the light (essentially our collective souls) to do it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:08 p.m. CST

    Yes, I

    by The Bicycle Sharer

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:09 p.m. CST

    Coughlin

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    I've never seen a person in real life bash the show as no good. And I know a fuckton of people that watched the show. The only people I've ever seen talk shit about it are on the internet and I hate to break it to ya but that doesn't constitute "most of their unbelievably loyal fans."

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:11 p.m. CST

    you might be right bicycle.

    by HoboCode

    paburrows could be right. in fact he probably is now that i see it. MIB was never trapped and he was just pretending to be Jacob in order to manipulate Ben and Locke. you got yourself a little ole answer there nit wit.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:11 p.m. CST

    OK, Koyaanisqati, explain why the MIB leaving the island

    by Coughlins Laws

    would be bad. He's supposedly Evil? As far as I can tell, Jacob is responsible for a larger body count than the MIB. If Jacob controlled The Others, why would he let them kill all of the Dharma Initiative in his name? If Jacob was a good guy, why would he allow so many people to die because of him? MIB just wanted to leave. They never explained why he couldn't. It wasn't ever made clear that he was ever any more evil than Jacob himself...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Thats exactly what I said Hobo

    by paburrows

    the ash ring was probably keeping MIB in and someone broke the ring wiether it was Locke when he & Ben visited it or someone else. Illana confirmed that MIB was gone and that the ash had been broken, so it could be guessed that breaking the ash freed MIB. It also could have been that because the ash ring was broken it allowed the cabin to jump around so that Hurley was able to see it because of his abilities. Its my guess that MIB could only leave before that in the form of the Smoke Monster and only when Ben turned that lever in his house.<br> <br> As for this arguement I'm not taking sides. Lets all be nice.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:13 p.m. CST

    The real Locke would have kicked Jack's weepy ass.

    by cookylamoo

    You know it's true.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:13 p.m. CST

    does it matter? Hobo

    by theGoldbergV

    nah. None of it matters. Its only a TV show. For me, yes, the motivations and actions of the series main antagonist DO matter to tell a good story. Lots of stuff about LOST was good. Up to a point. That point was when they introduced MIB. Nothing wrong with the performance (Titus Welliver is awesome) but the slapdash approach to his backstory is just unforgivable. The fact we are left to clutch at straws regarding bits and pieces of plot regarding him is pathetic. Some people say a story is only as good as the villian. Well the villain on LOST sucked. The stupid thing is they devoted a whole episode to his backstory but spent no time on what happened AFTER he became the monster! <P><P>Everything to do with MIB should matter, considering its his and Jacobs actions that are the entire driving force of the plot! But no beef, I aint getting angry. I'm glad some people still enjoy it. I just aint one of y'all. <P><P>Namaste and all that

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:17 p.m. CST

    Here's what it came down to

    by D.Vader

    Smokey could leave if he killed Jacob and all his Candidates. <p> He failed at killing the Candidates, but when Widmore told him that Desmond was the failsafe- in essence, pulling the plug is the failsafe and only Desmond can do it- MiB realized he had a second way to escape the Island: DESTROY the Island. <p> He had no idea it would make him mortal. All he knew was that Desmond could put out the light, and that was Widmore's plan and why he brought him to the Island. <p> Desmond pulls the plug. Island starts falling apart. MiB is now mortal and free to leave the Island. But, if we believe Jacob, putting out the light has dire consequences for the entire world. <p> But that doesn't mean shit to MiB, because he never believed in the Island in the first place, never believed it was special, and he looked at it as a prison. In short, he believed that pushing the button accomplished nothing. And in the end, Locke was once again wrong.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:18 p.m. CST

    I'm not following Goldberg.

    by HoboCode

    I didn't say that MIB's motivations and actions don't matter. All of MIB's motivations and actions were spelled out in his backstory and in the regular timeline. not sure what you mean?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:18 p.m. CST

    RPLocke just said something I agree with...

    by kwisatzhaderach

    I must have strayed into an alternate universe...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Yes, I "proved" that I wasn't paying attention

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    And you proved that you have no logic. It was YOUR assertion, made sarcastically at the "intelligence" of those who couldn't figure out why it would be bad for MIB to leave. That's the most moronic circular argument I've ever heard, genius.<p>We have to stop MIB and he can't leave the island because "Oh man, he could go even nutser and kill people or impersonate the president or fuck all kinds of shit up as a near invincible smoke pillar!! You don't want that shit, bro!"<p>But he can't leave unless he's mortal in which case he couldn't do it.<p>So, basically, your fucking premise of the bottom-fucking-line of Lost is that, at its heart, the whole plot and the final battle itself were just misunderstandings? Errors in communication? Bwahahahahaha! LMMFAO! And that seems "good" to you?!?!?! LOL!<p>That shit is priceless!<p>Searching till the end of Raiders for the lost ark and finding out it's a fucking plain ol' empty box! Wrestling over the Sankara Stones and, really, come to find out - they're just landscaping! Fighting for the grail and, in the end, it's just an old cup!<p>So, really, koyaanisqatsi, really, really, really none of it mattered 'cause they had to stop MIB from destroying the island and the world 'cause that would mean...<p>He's mortal, la-di-da, just like us and he can wreak exactly as much havoc as all the rest of us, but that makes all the dying and sacrificing that was done before "okay?" LOL, dude!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Nicely done Vader.

    by HoboCode

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Coughlin's Law: What is Neo never actually left The Matrix?

    by Royston Lodge

    What if the reason Neo has powers in the "Real World", and the reason that Smith is able to exist in the "Real World", is because the "Real World" doesn't actually exist?<p> http://www.matrix-explained.com/matrix_within_a_matrix.htm

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Coughlins Law, it doesn't take a genius...

    by D.Vader

    To realize that an entity that has absolutely no qualms, no morals about killing, is nigh invincible, and can imitate the dead would be a bad thing on the mainland. <p> I don't think we need that spelled out for us. It doesn't matter if Jacob has a "higher body count". We've never seen Jacob outright murder someone (except for maybe his brother and that's up for debate). Doesn't matter anyway. Smokey killed without a care. That's dangerous.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Yes, *I* am the nit wit, Homocode

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    While you even argued with the correct explanation. Talk about a fucking nit wit.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Well, Koyaanisqatsi, I've never met anyone in real life

    by Coughlins Laws

    that LIKED the show. I hated it, my girlfriend hated it, everyone that she worked with that watched it hated it, no one I work with said they liked it, a good 75%-80% of the critics I read were dissappointed at best, and I'd say a good 80% on this website didn't like it. Also, the fact that no one wanted to talk about it afterwards says alot. The Talkback after the Season 3 finale had thousands of posts. The Series finale had a fraction of that and dissappeared within a week or two. Even those that didn't hate it were underwhelmed by it and didn't want to talk about it. Stop pretending that most people liked it. They didn't...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:21 p.m. CST

    MIB's motivations WERE clear.

    by cookylamoo

    There was just no proof to back up what Jacob said about him.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Coughlin

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    Hey, you just repeated the mission statement of the show. It's not supposed to be clear who's good and who's evil. But it is clear that there's a murderous smoke man on the Island. And Goldberg, their actions aren't driving the entire plot. They're responsible for starting it all and that's pretty much it. The first cause. Beyond that anybody and everybody could have refused to replace Jacob and he wouldn't have been able to do shit. We know what happened after MiB became a monster. He acted like monsters do, terrorizing people and such.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:23 p.m. CST

    Heroes = awful. BSG and Lost = Disappointing

    by Mel_Gibsons_Nazi_Dad

    Supernatural's should have been series finale was amazing.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Bicycle

    by HoboCode

    Hey at least I admitted I was possibly wrong. What have you done here except foam at the mouth with sexist and homophobic remarks, get proven wrong at every turn, and not even have the balls or maturity to admit it. Sad little man.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:25 p.m. CST

    Coughlins Law, we've said this many times before

    by D.Vader

    But the only reason Season 3 had "thousands of posts" is because everyone there WANTED that talkback to stay in the top ten, wanted to reach 10,000 posts, and so we talked about anything and EVERYthing to do it. <p> Also, Season 3 ended with a bango cliffhanger that left the series open to ALL sorts of possibilities and thus there was mucho speculation about where the show could go next. <p> Season 6 was a series finale. Its over. Its done. There's not much left to speculate on. And no one wants to take it to 10,000. <p> So stop using that comparison as an argument because its extremely weak.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:25 p.m. CST

    Those WEREN'T the most hated tweet that douchbag received!

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    C'mon that SOB knows he got worse!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:25 p.m. CST

    Royston, that's where I thought they were going with it

    by Coughlins Laws

    I thought that the entire thing was a Matrix inside a Matrix. But instead of going that more complicated and satisfying route, they decided to make it a mindless action movie at the end...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:26 p.m. CST

    Also...

    by D.Vader

    There were like 6 or 7 LOST stories that week. It was kind of hard to keep one at the top since new stories kept popping up. But most of the LOST talkbacks were all in the Top Ten, so take that as you will (evidence that people were still talking about it, would be my suggestion).

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:27 p.m. CST

    Here's how it is...

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    For a show that made a point from the very beginning to never be absolute about anything you're all mysteriously reaching for absolute answers. I don't usually subscribe to the "you just didn't understand it" argument but DAMN!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:27 p.m. CST

    I mean the whole "trapped in a cabin"

    by theGoldbergV

    thing. The help me voice. The ash ring. The manipulation of Ben. The (implied) manipulation of Richard (he must have known something). If Across the Sea had delved into the time between MIB becoming the monster and taking the form of Locke they could have filled in all the gaps and the final season would make more sense as a result. The way it is now, its left to people like me and you to argue about what fits, what doesn't and whats important. It should all be important and clear if you want to look for it. <p><p>I'll break it down. I don't know if this is right, but this is what I THOUGHT was right. MIB was trapped in the cabin at some point (undefined). He manupulated Ben for years, pretending to be Jacob. But Ben then admitted to Locke that he was pretending too so I understand that either. Then there's the secret room in Ben's house and the well that "summons" Smokey, how does that fit with MIB's plan? Maybe there's some great answer to all this that you and paburrows are in on, if so, please share, because to me it doesn't make any sense. The individual pieces do but not the whole story. <P><P>While I'm here, does anyone know WHY Ben killed Locke in the first place? Was it cuz MIB (pretending to be Jacob) told him to? I guess that'd fit. Thats just it though, you have to just guess. I don't mind leaving bits of plot open, but when the motivations are so vague it all seems kinda pointless

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:28 p.m. CST

    At least we can all agree...

    by D.Vader

    Star Trek: TNG did have one of the best finales ever.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Well, Koy, if I was stuck on an island for 1,000 years

    by Coughlins Laws

    and the only thing keeping me for getting off was that asshole Jacob, I'd be capable of a lot of things, too. It seems like Jacob was involved in some sick, twisted game that involved the two of them testing people and killing them. He had a motive to be deceptive on the island. What was his motive off the island?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:29 p.m. CST

    D. Vader

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    I understand and agree with all that. Except the part about MIB "never believed in the Island in the first place, never believed it was special, and he looked at it as a prison." It strains credulity that a dude that got turned into a smoke monster and who lived 2,000 years doesn't "believe" in the island. More likely, as the prison view is right, he just didn't give a fuck and wanted off the island.<p>And on the whole, "if we believe Jacob" line, as I said before, basically then, the entire plot of the show hinged on believing someone who lies and withholds information and who is shown to be DEAD WRONG on the whole MIB leaving is a bad thing. I mean, maybe he's right on the island, but when Jack drew blood and FLocke didn't smoke the shit outta him, that by itself shows that FLocke was mortal and could cause just about as much mischief as any other human on earth. Woo dee fucking doo!<p>So, it was all based on a (probably) faulty theory by Jacob? Well, fuck, that's a ridiculous way to end Raiders, Temple of Doom, Last Crusade, and Lost.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:30 p.m. CST

    Hobocode, **ME** admit I was wrong????

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Learn to read, you ignorant used douche bag.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Coughlins Laws is right

    by Mel_Gibsons_Nazi_Dad

    Just look at the talkbacks. After the flash forward reveal it was crazy and after the finale nothing. Same arguement can be used for Heroes, season 1 from pilot to the finale the talkbacks just grew bigger and then after the terrible season 1 finale there was only a fraction of the participants<p> It's the way it works in the geek world. How much you're willing to talk about something is a measure of it's success.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Ben was always jealous of Locke

    by D.Vader

    Ben even tells Locke this outside the church. He was jealous because Locke was special and he wasn't. <p> He killed Locke in the hotel because he left Locke as leader of the Others, and if he killed Locke on the mainland, if he gets back to the Island he could take back his "rightful" place. And he knew he could get back to the Island bc Locke gave him the vital info necessary to do so: Mrs. Hawking is in LA.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:32 p.m. CST

    And again, Vader

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    (Fuck, I cannot believe I've been doing this all day!) Those stakes (and results - death and destruction for the Losties) are pretty fucking high for "whoops, my bad on the whole 'theory' thing" by Jacob.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Ben killed Locke

    by RPLocke

    to trap Smokey in Locke's body. Ilana said that since Locke was dead, Smokey was trapped in there.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:34 p.m. CST

    D.Vader, that was part of it, but people were enthusiastic

    by Coughlins Laws

    about the show then. Hardly anybody was satisfied or enthusiastic the last season, or especially with the last episode. Most people don't think the show is special anymore. It at one time was great. 3 Seasons in, I thought it was the best TV show ever. Now, having seen the whole thing, I wouldn't even put it in the Top 20 shows of all time...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Vader, even Ben's jealousy was misplaced

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Locke wasn't talking to Jacob, was he? He was talking to MIB if memory serves. Ben's a huge douche and never got his comeuppance.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:35 p.m. CST

    Right well, this one I REALLY don't understand

    by theGoldbergV

    When Hurley sees the Cabin in season 4, he sees TWO people inside. Christian Shepherd and....who? An eye. Who's eye? What?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:36 p.m. CST

    By trapped, RPLocke

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    You mean what? Unable to appear as anyone else? So what? He could sure as shit turn into a giant fucking pillar of smoke and smoke the shit out of some motherfuckers! I'd pay to be "trapped" like that.<p>And how exactly does that work anyway? He appeared as the dead Christian but wasn't "trapped" as him, even though Christian, too, was dead. I think you're confusing Ilana's explanation that MIB could appear as dead people (including, now, Locke) with being "trapped" as Locke.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Bike Sharer I think you're confused & you're confusing me

    by D.Vader

    MiB tells Sawyer "Its just a damn Island, it doesn't need protecting." <p> He may have believed that the Island had weird properties (you're right, he DID turn into a column of smoke) and thus was "special", but I don't think he ever believed his mom that the Island needed protecting. <p> As for Jacob, first off, he never lied. If you believe this, then please provide the proof of his lies. Secondly, he was NOT dead wrong about MiB leaving being a bad thing. Because A) MiB leaving as a Smoke Monster is bad for the rest of the world as explained numerous times already, and B) the only other way MiB could leave is in mortal form, but that requires the destruction of the Island and thus the possible destruction of life on Earth (if we believe Jacob that the Light is important, the collective soul of the world). <p> So you're right, MiB was mortal and could cause as much trouble as any other person, except there wouldn't be any other person around. Its the end of the world as we know it, basically. <p> So, in the end, no faulty theory of Jacob's. Unless only the Island would be destroyed, but based on what happened with the Swan Station, I doubt it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Anybody have any interest in watching...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    War Games and finding out, in the end, that the computer never could have started WWIII? Yeah, me neither.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:39 p.m. CST

    mythical answers and ambiguity are fine

    by BadMrWonka

    if that's what gets you off, great. but you can't deny that for the majority of the show, it was about codes, puzzles, mysteries (not ethereal mysteries, but normal ones), numbers, etc.<p> there were all kinds of tangents and interesting plot points, and I think the reason most people were upset b the finale is that it showed without a doubt, that almost NONE of those were very important to the overall story at all. you could condense the show down to 2 seasons, without an problem. it dragged all of this random, meaningless shit out for 6 seasons, just to sell DVD's and capitalize on the cultural phenomenon of the show.<p>but does that mean, in and of itself, that it was a good show? if so, American Idol would be the best show ever!<p>Lost was a formula. The creators figured out exactly how long, and in what direction, they could string out the largest amount of viewers. when it seemed like the viewership had reached its peak, they announced the end of the series down the line, before the rating plummeted too far. <p>the ending isn't really all that surprising in that context. the show wasn't about anthing, really. it was just an excuse to suck viewers back week after week with promises of answers that either never came, or where wholly unsatisfying. so the ending was, well, nothing, right? certainly nothing that tied together all of the smaller details that they had used to hook people in. <p> shows that are about characters more than plot can have quirky, weird endings. shows that don't have many plot arcs that extend past a few shows can have finales where they just sort of "end" (Star Trek TNG comes to mind)<p>but Lost claimed to be something more, a sort of puzzle of reality within a show. and at the end, the reveal was "BESURETODRINKYOUROVALTINE".<p>son of a bitch.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:39 p.m. CST

    Bike Sharer

    by D.Vader

    At that point, Ben STILL believed that Jacob had talked to Locke and thus he was special. So his jealousy was misplaced in that instance, but it doesn't take away from the fact that Locke WAS the leader of the Others at that point.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:40 p.m. CST

    Choppah, LOST never cared about religion till the end?

    by D.Vader

    That's funny, because in the first couple of episodes, I certainly remember Rose being a Christian woman and praying to God for her husband and the rest of the survivors... <p>... never mind Locke being a Man of Faith for the entire series...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:44 p.m. CST

    I'll bring up CARNIVALE again

    by theGoldbergV

    cuz its awesome and manages to do similar types of story much better. On Carnivale, the whole avatar mythology is beautifully detailed and although it relies on mysticism and magic, at one point in the show all is explained regarding the 'rules of how this works' and as a viewer I appreciate that. If we had rules on MIB and Jacob (as it seemed at one point we would be getting) then suddenly the whole feud between them makes sense. For 'mother' to just say "I fixed it so you can't kill eachother" was a bit of a cop-out IMO <p><p>In episode 2 of Carnivale there is a total WTF scene that takes place in a diner. All the major mythological characters are there and when you first see it, you're confused, intrigued, excited. Just like on LOST at times. The thing is, you watch that scene on re-watch knowing all the secrets and you *get* it. Its all a lot clearer. I don't think scenes on LOST benefit in the same way and its because the mythology is far more convuluted and relies too much on interpretation

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:46 p.m. CST

    Choppah, its clear you didn't understand LOST

    by D.Vader

    Since it was mainly about Science vs Faith and had been since the beginning.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:46 p.m. CST

    BadMrWonka

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    You find me any successful mainstream T.V. show that ran for six seasons that couldn't be condensed into two and I'll call you a liar.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:47 p.m. CST

    Is Choppah drunk now?

    by D.Vader

    He's slurring his words.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:48 p.m. CST

    I don't think MIB ever said.....

    by cookylamoo

    When I get off this friggin' Island I'm going to smoke everybody I see. He just wanted off. And people kept getting in his way.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Fuck this shit...

    by folamour

    ... I'm getting the bazooka! "Give me 6 years of my life back", please! You have to be kidding me. I did like the ending of lost but even if you didn't, this tweet sounds so ridiculous !

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Quick example of unsatisfying answers

    by theGoldbergV

    In season 1 we're all like "what?! The numbers are on the hatch door! Why is THAT?!" <P><P>Then in season 5 we find out its the serial number for the door and everyone goes "Huh?...Really?"

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:48 p.m. CST

    BADMRWONKA, that is actually a good analogy...

    by Coughlins Laws

    Remember I complimented you next time we're in a fight. I guess most of us set ourselves up to be dissappointed. But, we were definitely strung along and cockteased by all of the little hints and snickering from Damon & Lindelof over the years. I don't remember the creator of fiction ever getting that directly involved in promotion and plot points as those two were. I think J.J. Abrams is the big winner in all this. He wasn't involved past the Emmy-winning Season Premiere. He was like a rat abandoning a ship before it even started sinking so he avoids any of the stench these other guys have. I'm just glad that the actors we saw who got exposure. I'm glad Terry O'Quinn got a chance to shine. Hopefully Michael Emerson, Josh Holloway, and Terry O'Quinn all get alot of work after this. As far as Damon & Lindelof, I'll never knowingly watch anything else they're involved with. They made me personally not like them...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Vader, I'm arguing what you said

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    That MIB "never believed in the Island in the first place, never believed it was special." But we're in agreement, I think that he did, indeed, know that it was special. And you're right, he probably didn't think or care if it "needed protecting."<p>Regarding Jacob's lies, I guess I'm more talking about his "sins of omission" here. Failing to fess up early and often to any and all Losties about what was up. That shit was done for two reasons: first, I think MIB and Jacob were late in the game additions and, second, that it was a very obvious attempt by the writers to maintain the mystery that didn't make sense in retrospect.<p>Now, on the whole "failsafe" Desmond / Locke destroying the island thing, we're never told or shown any fucking way that Locke could destroy that island outside of Desmond removing the rock, right? I mean, wouldn't MIB have done so, if he could? So, Jacob's "failsafe" wasn't an island failsafe; it was a "kill Locke" failsafe. Basically, then, Jacob put the seemingly only means of destroying the island (Desmond) into Locke's hands when the only result would be destroying the island and "mortalizing" Locke to kill him and then just never bothered to tell Jack shit about it. I mean, what the fuck was Desmond's purpose in Jacob's plan? To make Locke mortal to kill him? But leaving him immortal on the island keeps him trapped there? And making him mortal only endangers the island with destruction, but allows Jack to kill a mortal who could do nothing to destroy the world or the island?<p>That's like setting up a hero who can only die when a nuclear device is counting down to zero while claiming you don't want the bomb to blow up. WTF?!?!?!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:50 p.m. CST

    Lost about the characters

    by Avengerdude

    All these "fans" saying Lost was always about the characters and you haters just didn't realize it: I can't remember ever seeing on any Lost forum, that I frequented (and they were many), anyone ever saying: there are no answers it is all about the characters. That is until season 6 started and Lindelhof & Cuse started saying it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:51 p.m. CST

    Yes, but Vader

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Locke was the leader of the Others BECAUSE he'd spoke to MIB, not Jacob. Where the fuck was Jacob anyway? And why not just say, "Hey, Richard, that motherfucker ain't on my team!" Again, jealous for something that was unrightfully attained that Jacob could've cleared up in about a second and a half. Half that plot depends on misunderstandings?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Deep Space Nine had a good finale

    by cookylamoo

    The Avitars of good and evil clash and one side wins. And you know what would have happened if he'd lost.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:53 p.m. CST

    Cookylamoo

    by D.Vader

    And what happens when people get in his way on the mainland? He'll just let it slide?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:53 p.m. CST

    Let me ask again, Vader

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    What was Desmond the "constant/failsafe" for in Jacob's plan? Jacob wants MIB on the island and the island not destroyed. But his "failsafe" is the only guy in the motherfucking world who could destroy the island? AND he doesn't explain ANY of this to anyone? Including Jack (who's "like" Jacob) now?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:54 p.m. CST

    I gotta run

    by D.Vader

    I'll settle up with the rest of your points later!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Avengerdude

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Good point. Can anybody point to the talkback where somebody (anybody) said, "Fuck that statue; I'm just glad Jack worked things out with Hurley!"

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Koyaanisqatsi

    by BadMrWonka

    again, many shows "could" be condensed, but that's because they never pretend to be as meaningful, interconnected and ongoing as Lost. could you just randomly remove a season of the Simpsons? sure. it wouldn't really affect anything else, because no one aged, nothing carried over from season to season, really.<p>but Lost claimed to be different. and yet, if you removed all of the "asides" (meaning, everything that was either never explained, or had nothing to do with the overarching story) you'd have maybe 2 seasons.<p>so why stretch it to 6? why stretch it at all?<p>I'll give you a hint, the answer rhymes with 'honey'.<p>oh, and to give you an example, just because...The West Wing.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:56 p.m. CST

    Sorry BS

    by D.Vader

    The gf is dragging me out of the house. I'll catch up later.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 4:57 p.m. CST

    Later, Vader

    by The Bicycle Sharer

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:01 p.m. CST

    Coughlins Laws: Follow that link I posted.

    by Royston Lodge

    Considering how much the Wachowski's like to mind-fuck their audience, a lot of the arguments at that site I posted make a fuck-load of sense.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:02 p.m. CST

    And Nolan left himself the perfect way out.in Inception

    by cookylamoo

    If it doesn't make sense....well, you know.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:14 p.m. CST

    This what I think happened

    by theGoldbergV

    Lindelof and Cuse came up with this great idea. They embraced the internet and fandom with the podcasts and the comic-con stuff and all the teasing interviews. They had this mystery show and did everything they could to build up the myseries but *outside* of the show itself. <P><P>Between seasons 1 and 2 they sanctioned that online game thing, which hinted that there was this great explanation to all the island's secrets. I never did it, so everytime I hear a LOST fan go on about the valenzetti equation (or whatever it is) I know they did because that equation is never mentioned in the show itself. <p><p>The show itself isn't really interested in the answers. Its all the add-on stuff, the commentaries, the interviews, the Dharma films, that hint that all the questions will be answered. I don't think they were ever interested in having any answers to these questions, they just talked them up in interviews. Look at the comic-con vid from before season 5, people picked over that on the web all summer. And in the end, its not even considered cannon. Because it makes no sense once you've seen season 5. <P><P>At the end of the day, they are businessmen and LOST is their product. They did everything they could to promote the product and keep people watching. And it worked. So what if the answers aren't important to them? I'm not angry at the producers, I'm kinda impressed. Its an incredibly clever way to promote your show. I'm sure they've both made an aboslute mint out of it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:16 p.m. CST

    Of course it still means people

    by theGoldbergV

    have the right to be pissed off. Probably should've mentioned that too

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:23 p.m. CST

    Thats the whole point CHOPPAH

    by theGoldbergV

    I hate the finale. After it aired I wanted to kick the TV. I was angry at Darlton, at myself for being taken in. But that was ages ago. Its a TV show. I still think seasons 1-5 are quite good. I'll never watch season 6 again. I've only seen the finale once. That was bad enough. But the thing is, I can criticise the show all day long, but having a go at the producers is just stupid. Its just their job. If I read a bad book I wouldn't insult the author, I'd just say his book sucks.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:35 p.m. CST

    it's "due dilligence," CHOPPAH

    by BadMrWonka

    take a valium, sir.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:36 p.m. CST

    This isn't funny. These guys fucked their legacies

    by GQtaste

    up when they screwed the pouch with that bullshit last season. They only have themselves to blame.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:37 p.m. CST

    oops

    by BadMrWonka

    "diligence", sorry

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:41 p.m. CST

    RPLocke - it would have been better if it was hell

    by coconutgroves

    Instead it was a "All you need is LOVE" jack off fest. Sometimes be careful what you ask for. We wanted answers and we got limp dick. I hate to use Inception again as an example, but stories don't always need a pretty bow if written well enough. The flash-sideways was the only twist of the season and it turned out to be what we though all along - purgatory. Big Whoop. When Charlie said "Where are we" at the end of the first ep I said "purgatory beyatch" - 6 years later, I pretty much was right.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:43 p.m. CST

    Coughlin

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    Yeah because The Simpsons and LOST are two comparable shows. Seriously, you find me a show that ran at least six seasons that was successful in the mainstream that you can't condense into two seasons. A show where every episode is required and would not make sense with anything less than the total number of episodes aired. In regards to The West Wing: Great fucking show but you could have easily condensed every presidential term into a single season and not missed a beat. Except for some great character stuff which was what made the show great not the political nature of it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:46 p.m. CST

    Royston Lodge - Hmm...

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    ...Ironically, I'm English, and have no fucking idea what Kool-Aid even is, except for the common pop culture trope "keep drinking the Kool-Aid" which refers to a conspiracy theorist telling a person unaware of what's REALLY going on, to keep believing that nothing's REALLY going on. I think.<P> Good call on the Matrix-within-a-Matrix theory, though. That actually occurred to me after I saw REVOLUTIONS - a very good theory...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:48 p.m. CST

    And for Christ Sake

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    Why on earth would anybody get angry at a TV producer? Unless they personally raped your dog the only person you have any right to be angry at is yourself for watching. Anytime you watch a TV show or movie you've decided to risk being disappointed. Deal with it. Christ, everybody's gotta blame everybody else for everything.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:53 p.m. CST

    Chopper

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    Seriously? That's all you've got? I must be a liberal? BURNNNNNNNN!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:53 p.m. CST

    Koyaanisqatsi

    by BadMrWonka

    that was me that responded, not Coughlin.<p>and if you're point was that The Simpsons and Lost are not comparable, well...that was my point as well.<p>read what I wrote again. virtually every successful mainstream show that ran for a long time, did so because there was not one single, overarching premise to sustain. they are all just stand alone entertainment. so the question you have posed twice now, is meaningless.<p>Seinfeld, The Simpsons, Frasier, all comedies, of course, and no overarching premises. Gunsmoke, ER, they had VERY few plotlines that lasted more than half a season. <p>Lost was DIFFERENT. it claimed to have a specific sci-fi/fantasy universe that these people inhabited. it had rules, it had hints to a larger reality and truth. it had logical boundaries, it (supposedly) had one universal story that would tie everything together and explain it. and when, in the end, that didn't happen, you can look back on the past seasons, and see what, functionally, was needed, and what wasn't.<p>and sad as it seems, 80% of it wasn't needed in service of the "point" of the series. and that, in the context of THIS SHOW, is a pretty shitty realization.<p>I wouldn't make that claim (and certainly not as a complaint) about any other series, because no other series has had the gall to claim such a premise.<p>Seinfeld's goal was to make people laugh, week by week. Was any one episode absolutely needed? no. was even an entire SEASON, absolutely needed? no. but it's a fun comedy. Lost claimed to be something bigger, something more important. and in the end, it was just stringing everyone along. feeding them crumbs to get them to follow, and half of the crumbs weren't even real crumbs.<p>And I will ignore your comments about The West Wing. you have no idea what you're talking about, so it's best to just avoid it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:55 p.m. CST

    Hey, quit dissing INCEPTION

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    That movie was fucking brilliant. And no, the ending is not ambiguous. You can hear the spinning top going wobbly. It's not a dream.<P> And THE_CHOPPAH... how the fuck do you get out of bed without majorly injuring yourself in the morning?? I mean, unburdened by even the faintest thought of a concept of intelligence... that's gotta hurt, yo. Or be some kind of bliss, I dunno which.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 5:57 p.m. CST

    THE_CHOPPAH

    by BadMrWonka

    please take your medicine. if your problem with Lost is that it didn't wrap up the answers logically, or address main points, how can you hate Inception? that movie did that more than any comparable movie in recent memory.<p>just because there are a few possible interpretations of the movie, doesn't mean it's lazy writing. do you know what level of detail, both in the writing and the direction, it takes to make a movie that complex and multi-layered coherent?<p>never mind, stupid question. the last time you wrote something more than 50 words, your mom posted it on the fridge with a big red C- on it...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6 p.m. CST

    The REAL tragedy of Lost

    by hank_chinaski

    I never watched the show. Saw the beginning, didn't care for it. Only episode I saw outside that ended with that guy's kid being abducted at the end in the ocean...... Anyway, to me, the REAL tragedy of the show is the fact that EVERYONE and their fucking mom talks about it, and how is the greatest show ever. It gets SOO much attention, meanwhile TRULY GREAT shows like Breaking Bad hardly get any the same media coverage. GREAT WRITING, GREAT ACTING, GREAT DIRECTING. The show consistently gets better and better. But no. People would rather watch and argue and the meaning of magical glowing caves.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:03 p.m. CST

    Wonka

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    Sorry about the mixup with the names. Just to clear things up, I'm agreeing with you. You said Lost could be condensed from six seasons to two and not miss anything and that's pretty much true. My point was that I have never seen any show ever (West Wing included) in which every episode was absolutely essential to the entire experience. I think you're over thinking LOST. Darlton and J.J. and the show itself never made any claims as to what it was or wasn't. They never once came out and said "this is what the show is about" or "this bit's important and that isn't and this bit is REALLY important." I'm pretty sure they were all well aware that they were making a TV show. A product. Entertainment. I seriously doubt their goals were so lofty as to be a commentary about "issues" primarily. The point of the show wasn't Science v. Faith or Good v. Evil. Those were the themes but not the point. The point of the show was Darlton and J.J. thought it'd be a fun show for people to watch. Turned out they were right.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:05 p.m. CST

    P.S.

    by hank_chinaski

    I'll never forgive Lindelof for making me wait YEARS to see #3 Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:06 p.m. CST

    And the worst insult of all is...

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    Actually, you've done my job for me, Chopper. You're an idiot.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:08 p.m. CST

    MIB/Smoke Monster

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Though I don't love the explanation of the smoke monster, or at least the MIB part of it, I do like the ambiguity of it. What exactly its nature is, what damage it can do in the outside world. I'm not certain in the end that they really explained what the hell it was doing, killing some people, not killing others, showing flashbacks, etc. My suspicion is there IS a pseudo-scientific idea behind the whole thing but I'd just as soon not know what it is.<p>That being said, I'd like to know why it couldn't into that tree trunk in season 1. I mean, it's fuckin' smoke, after all.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:08 p.m. CST

    BADMRWONKA, that is actually a good analogy...

    by Coughlins Laws

    Remember I complimented you next time we're in a fight. I guess most of us set ourselves up to be dissappointed. But, we were definitely strung along and cockteased by all of the little hints and snickering from Damon & Lindelof over the years. I don't remember the creator of fiction ever getting that directly involved in promotion and plot points as those two were. I think J.J. Abrams is the big winner in all this. He wasn't involved past the Emmy-winning Season Premiere. He was like a rat abandoning a ship before it even started sinking so he avoids any of the stench these other guys have. I'm just glad that the actors we saw who got exposure. I'm glad Terry O'Quinn got a chance to shine. Hopefully Michael Emerson, Josh Holloway, and Terry O'Quinn all get alot of work after this. As far as Damon & Lindelof, I'll never knowingly watch anything else they're involved with. They made me personally not like them...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:10 p.m. CST

    hank_chinaski

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    What you're saying is it's a tragedy that not enough people share your opinion. Which is kind of silly.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:13 p.m. CST

    Koyaanisqatsi

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    There's a difference between "not every little thing mattering" and, literally, four disposable seasons - 2, 3, 4, and 5. Lost was not a stand-alone show. It was serialized. The events, in order, were supposed to matter, to reflect changes in each of the characters. Instead, 2, 3, 4, and 5 didn't matter shit. I can miss ten episodes of "Two and a Half Men" and not miss shit. The same shouldn't have been so for Lost.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:15 p.m. CST

    So basically Lost is Gilligan's Island

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Watch the first season, skip the next few, and watch the last and don't miss shit. Wow. That's "great."

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:17 p.m. CST

    Holy shit, Wonka

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Disagree about West Wing (blech!) but well put about Lost. Very well put.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:17 p.m. CST

    Now that I brought it up, Top 20 shows of my lifetime:

    by Coughlins Laws

    1. Seinfeld<p>2. The Simpsons<p>3. Law & Order<p>4. South Park<p>5. 24<p>6. Cheers<p>7. Curb Your Enthusiasm<p>8. The Sopranos<p>9. NYPD Blue<p>10. Star TreK: TNG<p>11. Arrested Development<p>12. The Cosby Show<p>13. Friends<p>14. Frasier<p>15. The Office<p>16. Six Feet Under<p>17. The Wire<p>18. Lost<p>19. The Shield<p>20. The X-Files

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Actually, my list was just thrown together off the top of my

    by Coughlins Laws

    head. You could probably switch some of those around and I probably forgot some stuff I liked. But, the point is, if you asked me 3 years ago, I would've had Lost in my Top 5.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:21 p.m. CST

    Holy Shit, did I really just see an ad for The Situation?

    by Coughlins Laws

    Seriously? Wow, is the site really doing that badly? Actually, who am I kidding, I actually DID watch the Jersey Shore Premiere, I'm embarrassed to say. I still wouldn't by anything any of that trash would sell, though...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:21 p.m. CST

    Koyaanisqatsi...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...your comment about how any "mainstream" show that ran six seasons could be condensed into two is really sort of a straw man argument. <p> Lost presented itself as a serial, with continuing character and story arcs. Now in retrospect that wasn't really what it was, but it certainly did behave like one during most of its run. <p> So name me some serialized mainstream (whatever that means to you) dramas that lasted six seasons. Because if you can't your point has no meaning. I mean could Gunsmoke or Frazier be condensed into two seasons? Sure, just have fewer ornery bushwhackers and neurotic episodes. But because these shows did not have continuing (and supposedly, in Lost's case) evolving story lines, that's an absolutely meaningless comparison. <p> Now it only ran five seasons and I am sure it would not qualify as "mainstream" (I hate weasel word escape hatches inserted in arguments) but Babylon Five (of which I am no great fan) had a five season story arc and the show was badly damaged when its creators, believing it would be canceled after its fourth season, raced through its planned fourth and fifth seasons in just its fourth. <p> Another five season show (but surely not "mainstream"--bail! bail!), The Wire, could not possibly have been condensed. And there are plenty of other examples, too. <p> Straw Man argument with a special condition escape hatch. Unless you're saying Lost wasn't supposed to be a serialized show with continuing arcs.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:30 p.m. CST

    Thunderbolt Ross

    by hank_chinaski

    I'm saying that one show gets DAMN NEAR universal praise from both critics AND ITS audience, hardly gets any media attention or viewers. If there was a Rotten Tomato rating for it, it'd be rocking a 98% at least. (i don't think Lost would be that high) While another which seems to polarize its audience, with both critics and "fans" attacking it for flawed/poorly thought out plot and script devices. And yes, for the record, I'll take any 1 episode of Breaking Bad over any season of Lost. Any day of the week.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:32 p.m. CST

    And keep in mind...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...that outside of the magic spiders episode there were no stand alone episodes in Lost. This wasn't a case like X Files where half to two thirds of the show every year was devoted to stand alone monster of the week episodes with a very weak through line extending through the series. Every episode of Lost was devoted to the evolution of a continuing story. <p> That story was, of course, Australopithecus Africanus. Well, there are other shows evolving all the time.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:32 p.m. CST

    I want to know the answer to this question...

    by Anaximandar

    Why are Ben and Sayid, two people who should probably end up in hell, in Purgatory awaiting heaven while Michael is stuck on the Island? Last I checked, Michael came back to redeem himself for his evils just like Sayid did, so why doesn't he get to be part of the spirit cluster? <p> The Purgatory World, to me, is sketchy at best. The rules for how it works, even down to why you need awakened in the first place, are never revealed. I mean, even the stakes are stupid - If we don't wake everyone up, then we get to live in a super-awesome oblivious dream state where everything we want is given to us? Doesn't sound so bad to me. <p> The reason the sideways as purgatory is so flimsy, is because the narrative from the middle of season five was designed as a sucker punch sixth-sense style ending - except the ending they gave us was lackluster and cheated away all the awesome they were dealing with a big ole'switcheroo. <p> Someone here said it best: You can take the sideways story and reveal and slap it on any show in existence and it would still work.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:34 p.m. CST

    Terry O'Quinn was the ONLY good thing in 5/6

    by performingmonkey

    Looking at them retrospectively, seasons 5 and 6 really are pieces of shit. Season 4 was amazing TV for the most part and you felt the show still have a lot of amazing shit to lay down. The episode The Constant, good god that's one of the greatest episodes of television ever made! Also the one where all hell breaks loose and Ben watches his daughter shot in the head - top drawer TV again. The finale was unreal too, as Ben was turning the wheel with Giacchino's music blasting over the top I couldn't believe how big this was getting and how into it I had become. Then season 5 came and fucked all that in the ass. Very boooooring for the most part. They decided to cut down Desmond's role too, damn them. Season 6...oh god. I would rather they had explained NOTHING. They should never have explained the whispers, the numbers, the smoke monster (just to say it was the man in black would have been enough). *sigh*

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:42 p.m. CST

    six years of that tweeters' life?

    by PJoseph

    That guy never had a life to begin with anyway. He should be happy he has something to complain about - it GAVE him life. BTW - regarding that "six years" of life someone has felt was stolen - uh, not really. It was one hour a week for 22 weeks a year. Big deal. GET OVER IT!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:44 p.m. CST

    spud_mcspud: "Drinking the Kool-Aid"

    by Royston Lodge

    History Lesson Here:<p> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones#Deaths_in_Jonestown

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:49 p.m. CST

    Fuckin' Coughlins Laws

    by Al Swearengen

    I deem your fuckin' list irrelevant as it fails in its God-forsaken ignorancy to include the program of Deadwood.<P>The Shield??? Cocksucker.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:50 p.m. CST

    The whispers...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...are ummm...ghosts. <p> The smoke monster is a...a...ummm...a bad guy! A really old bad guy! <p> He's bad because...he wants to leave the island! The island's important because of...well there's this...no...oh, there's this light...and it's probably a special light because...because it contains everything that's good! <p> The Dharma Initiative came to the island to...ummm...dick around? Something about electromagnetism. Hey, where's that guy who's always reading Scientific American on the maintenance staff? He got fired? Shit. Well, electromagnetism. People know that word's scary and important. No, not Quantum physics! Someone might call us on that! String Theory? You're fired! <p> That guy who's been alive forever? It's really just a couple hundred years. He got bummed out because his wife croaked and ended up on a ship. Hey hey hey! It's the ship that broke that statue with four toes. Forget who built it. When people see that wooden ship taking it down they'll be so crazy excited they'll never mess with us again! Anyway, he lives forever because...oh he found a golden ticket and so out of everyone who ever came to the island he gets a live forever but never tell anyone anything useful about anything certificate. <p> Tired now! Tired! Tell them they're lucky we don't give them midichlorians. Any time any story explains anything it's midichlorians. Hound of the Baskervilles? It was midichlorians. Remember that movie Robert Towne wrote? She's my sister! She's a midichlorian! She's my sister! She's a midichlorian! <p> okay...just tell everybody it was always about the characters. yeah, i know the only character who really gets any growth in season six is jack. but he's a character, right? those other characters, it was never about them. but don't say that part outside this room. if we don't mention it and throw an episode Ben's way maybe no one will notice.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 6:55 p.m. CST

    performingmonkey Really? The only good thing?

    by RPLocke

    What about Desmond? Hurley? Sawyer, Juliet? Jack? Ben? I'd say they were all great in Season 5/6. Hell even Faraday got better lines than Kate.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:08 p.m. CST

    Careful Choppah....

    by cookylamoo

    Don't awake the Nolan Nazis.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:08 p.m. CST

    Remember in Psycho...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...when Tony Perkins turns out to be a midichlorian? People hated that. <p> Stupid Hitchcock. <p> Keyser fucking midichlorian. <p> Soylent Green. That was midichlorians, right? <p> Blew up the Statue of Midichlorians. Ooooh...big explanation. Big man. We had polar bears. Polar bears are better than monkeys. No monkeys on our island. Just magic deadly spiders that wake up for one episode every six seasons. Now that's an explanation. <p> The Birds. Now that's a good movie. It didn't have an explanation. Didn't even have any clues. We gave them six seasons of clues to what our no explanation was. <p> Hitchcock was a genius. <p> I Am Legend? It turns out he's the monster. Big whoop! And anyway, that was only in the book. Books aren't even mainstream. <p> Midichlorians.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:27 p.m. CST

    The #1 surest sign the Lost finale failed...

    by tailhook

    The showrunner is trying to make jokes about how bad it was to laugh it off. If the finale was all that and a bag of chips, neither Carlton or Damon would have to say a word, it would speak for itself.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:37 p.m. CST

    DS9 ending was way worse

    by Tall_Boy66

    Gul Dukat TURNED INTO THE FUCKING DEVIL AND SHOT FIRE OUT OF HIS MOUTH! At least nobody in the Lost finale turned into Satan. I'll take them all happy in heaven any day.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:42 p.m. CST

    In Closing....

    by www.valiens.com

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 7:43 p.m. CST

    Locke turned into smoke, but the show earned it

    by Tall_Boy66

    (Even though he didn't smoke monster at all in the final episode) They gave you enough information about Smokey over few seasons that it felt like a natural part of the series. As natural as a smokey monster can be. The Pa'Wraith bit was in, like, a throwaway episode when O'Brien's wife was possessed by evil Prophets in a bad episode nobody wanted to remember. Then DS9 makes it the fucking linchpin of the entire series. From the awful episode when O'Brien's wife got possessed. There's your finale. Sure.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:16 p.m. CST

    Ned

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    Just because something is serialized doesn't mean that every little bit is supposed to be the most important thing since the bit before it. The John Carter novels are one straight serialized shot from the first book to the last but there's certainly stuff in there that can be skipped. BSG was serialized (except when it wasn't) and it had it's fair share of filler episodes. No different with The Wire. That story could have been told in a much leaner yet no less effective way. And there were many episodes of Lost that served the purpose of a stand alone episode, being to slow the pace down and give us character bits that we wouldn't get with people being chased around a jungle looking at hatches and statues. The only reason any of those shows/stories were told in 12 books or in five or six seasons is because people liked them and were willing to watch more. Not because the integrity of the story demanded it. No straw man argument here. Also, your sarcastic post about the guy who'd been around forever turning out to be only a couple hundred years old and the DI going there just to dick around missing the whole point. It's based on your assumptions and not anything the show ever put forth. It is implied Richard Alpert is extremely long lived but nowhere does it ever in any way imply he's "been alive forever." And the MiB wasn't bad because he wanted to get off the Island. He was bad because he was a murdering bastard. That's enough incentive for anyone to want to stop someone from doing something. "I saw that guy murder some fool but he just had a tough childhood, he's actually alright so I'll let him off the Island," just doesn't make sense to any sane person. And as far as the DI stuff. It's a TV show! TV/Movie science does not in any way need to operate like or resemble real science.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:25 p.m. CST

    SPUD

    by DeadAtRecess

    I enjoy your posts...but I fucking hated the sequels to The Matrix. The first film ended brilliantly. Neo speak directly to the machines, tells them he's gonna fuck them up, and then flies away...demonstrating his total control of the virtual world. Done. We win. Yay! I came away from that film able to extrapolate the rest...war with the machines, but with Neo's help humanity was able to break free. I was appalled that they made sequels. I consider them "painting sunglasses on the Mona Lisa". The LOST finale sucked though.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:33 p.m. CST

    Season 6 (and really, most of Season 5)...

    by HarryKnowlesNonExistentInceptionReview

    ...never happened. The bomb blew up and left us hanging, just like Leo Dicaprio's top in "That Blockbuster Work of Cinematic Genius Which Shall Not Be Named On This Website." Easy. Just like the Prequels never happened (wtf are Prequels?) There also was only one Matrix movie, called, appropriately enough, "The Matrix." There were only two Terminator movies and no TV show. Only two Alien movies, as well, first one was good, second even better. Perfect. Yep. Lost ran for 4 seasons, then a handful of special episodes and the producers were wise enough to let the audience provide an ending as they saw fit. That's MY story, anyway, and I'm sticking to it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:53 p.m. CST

    Deep Space 9

    by cookylamoo

    It only made sense that the wormhole inhabitants would be both good and evil. I was a bit disappointed the Dukat sort of folded back into a cardboard villain at the end. Anyway, it was better than the Jack/Locke fight.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 8:54 p.m. CST

    Season Five happned

    by RPLocke

    And it was a fantastic season with the viewer finally learning more about Dharma. But why they had that bomb explode, I know they were stuck in the seventies, but just have the island flash again.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:10 p.m. CST

    Fuck You Lindelof

    by DiscreetFighterAlpha

    You think these are hurtful? This isn't even .000009 of the vitriol that's been laid out against this show, so this smugness isn't cute. You're a charlatan, a con artist, and an overall deceitful prick.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:17 p.m. CST

    DiscreetFighterAlpha

    by RPLocke

    Bitter much?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 9:46 p.m. CST

    HarryKnowlesNonExistentInception Review

    by DeadAtRecess

    I'll stick to your story as well. ESPECIALLY where the Alien franchise is concerned. Amen!

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:05 p.m. CST

    I stopped reading after I read this

    by Jayemel

    by the Bicycle_Sharer: <p> "While still giving closure to the character. Think Twin Peaks or The Prisoner. Both those had ambiguous endings AND no closure for the characters. I think LOST'S producers wanted to have their cake and fuck us in the ass, too." <p> Ding. Ding. Ding. Half of season six/The End is nothing more than emotional jerkoff bs. The "purgatory" crap is their lives flashing before their eyes before they died (someone already pointed out Juliet's "It worked" was what she said to Sawyer in whateveratory.) It was only done to give the fans emotional closure. <p> Amibiguity = Did the cork actually need to be plugged in to save the world or just the island? This questions parallels "Is there a God or not?" Unfortunately, the writers answered it with, "We can't know, so just put Hurley in charge so we focus our faith on people (and not God/the Cork), but make sure Ben is his #2 so the moron doesn't do anything terribly stupid since he has a low IQ. <p> From the Pilot to What They Died For, LOST is the best show ever. The End is half crap, half short sighted philosophy, but at least the on island plot was wrapped up. <p> Oh, and BSG had a MUCH worse and MUCH more maddening ending.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:05 p.m. CST

    wow...the freaking Lost "hater" IDIOTS are in full force...

    by jay2517

    i just love how they think a MINUTE FUCKING TALKBACK REPRESENTS ALL OF THE TV VIEWING AUDIENCE. u dumbass fuckers are really OUT THERE. thank the "intraweb gods" for people like VADER, PABURROWS,KOYAANISQATSI and TALLBOY (sorry if i forgot any good soldiers) for having the patience (and the taking away from their ACTUAL EVERYDAY LIFE) to fucking PUT U IDIOT FUCKS IN UR PROPER PLACE. waahhhhh wahhhhh!!!! they make me use COMMON FUCKING SENSE while watching the show! FOR SHAME!! heaven forbid u use ur actual BRAIN when watching Lost broheims...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:13 p.m. CST

    and BTW bicycle sharer...HOWS THE FUCKING UNEMPLOYEMENT???

    by jay2517

    u sad fucking piece of stupid?? if anyone is WONDERING WHY he can post ALL DAY...well now u have ur explanation. the loser is on UNEMPLOYMENT AND DOESNT CARE! so next time ur read one of his recovering drug addict rants u will NOW have some perspective brotha...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:18 p.m. CST

    now with that done...

    by jay2517

    i leave to finish my replay of Resident Evil 2 on my good 'ol gamecube (good 'ol times!!)...ahhhh sarcasm lol....

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:36 p.m. CST

    I have a job and I post all day.

    by Royston Lodge

    Of course, I'll lose my job if my boss ever finds out...

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:47 p.m. CST

    Dude, what the fuck are you on about?

    by Tall_Boy66

    If that was an attempt at parody it was seriously one of the worst fucking things I've ever seen in my life.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:49 p.m. CST

    Seriously, please try that post again in English

    by Tall_Boy66

    It's like reading from the fucking Dead Sea Scrolls and trying to decode it.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 10:56 p.m. CST

    I have a job, too.

    by cookylamoo

    I just work for the government.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:07 p.m. CST

    I sell pencils and string on a street corner

    by RPLocke

    It's rough.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:08 p.m. CST

    I pimp out teenage runaways, myself

    by Tall_Boy66

    Business is streaky, so I get long dry spells to post on AICN.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Fuckin' pencils and string, RPLocke?

    by Al Swearengen

    I have little doubt that you speak the fuckin' truth.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:22 p.m. CST

    The ending sucked. They lied.

    by Baked

    Not only did they betray the last five seasons, they betrayed all of season six, even the first half hour of the episode. Desmond even says he wants to create an alternate reality but for no explicable reason his gambit fails and the very rules of the mythology are violated to give Jack and Evilocke a fistfight to the death. It's RIDICULOUSLY stupid. Evilocke's ENTIRE PLAN is a waste of time. When your solution to stopping the greatest evil on the island is LETTING him succeed, you know you've failed as a writer.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:34 p.m. CST

    oh, Twitter

    by punto

    who gives a shit about you?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:36 p.m. CST

    better be careful Red...

    by jay2517

    can they check ur history at work?

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:37 p.m. CST

    TWITTER IS GAY

    by Spazatronik_2000

    AND LOST FANS ARE HOMOS

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:38 p.m. CST

    The "Failsafe" against Smoke Monster?

    by Baked

    Like trapping a cougar behind the steel-reinforced door of your basement. <p> "Why's there a cougar in your basement?" <p> "I lured him there with a steak." <p> "Why?" <p> "Because I hate cougars." <p> "So ... your plan?" <p> "Kill him." <p> "Let him starve to death?" <p> "No, drill a hole in the steel door and fill it with acid." <p> "Won't that ruin your basement?" <p> "Not if we kill the cougar before the acid dissolves everything." <p> "But why not just let him starve to death in your basement? He can't do anything in there except scare you." <p> "But then I can't kill him." <p> "But he's in your basement. The door's reinforced steel. He's not going anywhere." <p> "So you see my point. Now, let's get this basement door open." <p> Even a moment's consideration of that plot shows it to be hilariously stupid.

  • Aug. 3, 2010, 11:39 p.m. CST

    ahh dammit i mean to type ROY...

    by jay2517

    not Red lol...

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 12:27 a.m. CST

    Fuck Lindelof and Cuse

    by TheApostle

    It can not be said enough.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 12:30 a.m. CST

    Gul Dukat turned into the DEVIL?!?!

    by D.Vader

    And fucking shot fire out of his mouth? Oy vey. I missed that part and only saw where Sisko sacrificed himself.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 1:13 a.m. CST

    Baked

    by Jayemel

    That's the entire point. Jacob was flawed. Even worse than that, their "mother" was flawed. All the MiB ever wanted to do was leave the island. What harm would that have done? None. The MiB was never "evil," not as a kid nor as the black smoke. Jacob was as bad in different ways, he just had a better PR campaign.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:16 a.m. CST

    Thank you Jay....

    by Keblar

    you saved me from bothering to attempt (and consequentially wasting) pointless cogent retaliation on the petty and inconsequential. It's better that we let those at the kids table exhaust themselves by beating one-another with Nerf bats...then later those with something relevant and pertinent to say can have a REAL discussion.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:20 a.m. CST

    I Meant Jay2517 not that simpleton Jayemel...

    by Keblar

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 3:21 a.m. CST

    its just a fuckin tv show

    by brabon300

    jeezus christ people...who cares

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 4:05 a.m. CST

    I'm a simpleton?

    by Jayemel

    Why? I don't hate The End. I don't love The End. It wasn't the worst series finale ever. It wasn't the best series finales ever. As far as LOST goes though, it was the worst season finale. I rank them like this: <p> S3, S5, S2, S1, S4, S6 <p> It's tough though because the story content of the S5 an S2 finales are so strong and the S3 finale was really carried by the twist which doesn't hold up on repeat viewings. <p> I rank the seasons like this: S1, S2, S3, S5, S4, S6. <p> When they show shifted from character to plot emphasis, the unified writing suffered (where the flash story mirrored the on island story). S6 seemed to be doing so, but the whateveratory undermines that.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 4:12 a.m. CST

    Inception didn't end ambiguously

    by ThrowMeTheIdol

    Cobb was always wearing a wedding ring in the dream sequences and not wearing one when awake. In the last set of scenes as he was getting off the airplane and going through customs he was not wearing a ring.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 6:57 a.m. CST

    Wow...

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    After reading the first 3rd of this talkback, it is definitely clear as to who is winning the debate. It's obviously a very heated one, and why shouldn't it be? The first couple of seasons of Lost were perhaps among the very best television ever produced. Something that started off so great, with so much potential... is going to get very divisive reactions. And it should be obvious to all, that no matter what you think of the finale, or the final season for that matter... they were in no way, shape, or form, NEARLY as good as the first few seasons. That isn't even debatable. From a purely objective viewpoint. One that judges and critiques based on all of the technical aspects of film-making (or "TV-making" in this case). Storytelling, acting, writing (especially dialogue and character development), direction, cinematography, etc... All of these were CLEARLY better in the phenomenal season 1. And season's 2 and 3 were clearly better in these categories than the latter seasons of 4, 5, and 6. If you're even attempting to debate this fact... then you really need to go find a new hobby... lol <P> Now, with that said, the "winning of the debate" as i put it earlier is over. From a purely objective, unbiased, 3rd party point of view... as if there was some forum moderator/judge, he would CLEARLY side with the "haters" on this one. Just from a pure debating perspective. All i have seen from the "apologist" side are personal attacks on the posters expressing their frustration about the way the show ended. They use the ridiculous, cliched non-retorts like "get out of your parent's basement", and "you must be fat and lonely and cynical"... to the hilariously retarded "why don't you go make your OWN show, jerk!" lol Jesus christ, you people are dense... Their only defense seems to be "well i liked it, so thats that. Go fuck yourself!" Whereas, on the other side... you have clear, valid, well-thought out points about the weaknesses of the show. Clear ideas on how it could have been improved. Good, solid, deep examination of the show from a film-making perspective. Good deconstruction of the material, almost akin to Mr. Plinkett's brilliant videos on the star wars prequels. So from a DEBATE point of view, sorry apologists... the "haters" have clearly won. <P> Now, that doesn't include ALL of the apologists. As i stated before... 99% of the infantile apologists on this talkback, and in others, are one-note, simplistic lemmings, spouting off profane, idiotic vitrol. HOWEVER, there is one guy on here who has broken the mold: D.VADER. Sure, i resent your absolute defense of SHIT... ;-) but i do respect your mature and reasonable demeanor. I like that you are actively engaged in discourse here. You don't simply "hit and run" like these other mongloid trolls. So Thank You :-) <P> Still... i am a little miffed. You see, what this talkback reminds me of... and this whole debate about LOST (and also very reminiscent of the Star wars prequel debates of the past...) are almost identical to the whole science vs. religion debate. Back in the good 'ol days when i used to "argue" or debate/discuss with christians on the net (such sites like Christianburner.org and whatnot...) i would run into the same illogical, irrational folks who would defend their silly beliefs, as i tried to calmly and logically "enlighten" them lol. Obviously their debate skills were terrible. They exhibited a complete lack of reasoning skills, logic, rational thought, etc. and would rely heavily on emotion, belief, intuition, intangible things like that... (so again, VERY reminiscent of this talkback here) However, there was always THAT ONE GUY on the side of the "believers" that would, despite believing in this obvious, man-made, fairy tale... would actually put up a decent debate! This person would actually be very well spoken, seemingly intelligent, somewhat rational... pretty coherent actually, in his defense. And i would often think to myself: "How on earth, could anyone who exhibits the least bit of rational thought/intelligence/logic, actually believe in this garbage? lol Well, i have a few theories, but it doesn't really matter here... <P> But D. Vader, is certainly THAT ONE GUY. I respect him as an individual, and i definitely respect his determination... however, i do not respect his "opinion" about the way the show ended. I believe that due to his relative intelligence and fairly creative mind, that he has "filled in" the missing holes that the showrunners left wide open. His MIND has elevated the show to something higher than it actually is. And that's admirable, but i hope he realizes this eventually. He makes these seemingly "profound" connections within the show where there truly aren't any. Almost like a schizophrenic, in a way... He's still a little to unobjective, and he clearly relies a little more on emotion, rather than logic (as do all of the Finale defenders), and i hope that he truly, deep down, really does appreciate the brilliance of the early seasons of LOST, despite his "love" for the final season and episode... <P> So to all the other idiotic apologists here: FUCK YOU. But props to D.Vader. Keep on keepin' on, brotha ;-)

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 7:06 a.m. CST

    Koy...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    Two things. We'll make this simple: <p> 1. You've suggested that The Wire, specifically, could have been shortened significantly without losing anything of real value to its core purpose, painting a picture of an American urban center in decline. You've surely watched it, then. So please illustrate your point by explaining what could have been removed. You just saying something doesn't make it so, but I'm more than happy to debate the point. <p> My sarcastic post was meant to illustrate that the answers the Lost folks did toss out as they were desperately tap dancing their way to their conclusion didn't really fit together, didn't form a consistent reality and taken together really don't make much sense. So not only was their imagination small, making the answers they did give mundane, but they violated the primary law of giving mundane answers; the mundane answers they gave don't even form a convincing whole.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 7:10 a.m. CST

    Gargantuan...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...yeah, Vader is an extremely good guy. I guess I don't resent him having an opinion on the other side of the fence, though. I argue this kind of stuff with people in my real life all the time. No harm no foul. Next time we'll probably agree with him.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 7:13 a.m. CST

    LMAO

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    Ahhhhh... i see Jay2517 is still acting like a fucking infantile crack-head with his screaming, schizophrenic-like tirades. Some things never change...

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 7:16 a.m. CST

    Oh shit, Red Ned!

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    Nice to hear from you man... i remember having a good discussion with you on the LOST finale talkback, when i posted under the name "Fettitular". I recall you being one of the few reasonable chaps on that talkback as we were trying to "set some people straight"... and yeah, that D.Vader is pretty fuckin' stubborn ain't he? ;-)

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 7:18 a.m. CST

    And i just read that last post of yours entitled "Koy..."

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    Very well put!

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 7:25 a.m. CST

    Cobb was dreaming....

    by cookylamoo

    The fact that his wife could have herself declared sane by three doctors without being declared insane for wanting to prove it true proves it was all a dream. It's like "why do you want to be declared sane, Mrs Cobb?" "Because. I've been living in a dream for fifty years and I didn't notice that no one lived there but me and my husband."

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 8:22 a.m. CST

    they missed ONE vital thing

    by CostCo

    New here, so i thought i'd just get to the point. LOST has one question, one final, fundamental question, that sits at the core of the whole experience. that question is WHAT IS THE ISLAND? now, i'm not saying that the show's bosses needed to answer that question, finally, once and for all - but to fail to even ATTEMPT this most basic of questions, to not even bother to suggest a possible answer - that seems to me to be frankly disgraceful. Worse, i spent six years watching (and enjoying, mostly) this show, and at the end of it, I found that my own answers to this and other questions were better, more cohesive, more satisfying that those the producers came up with. and they are PAID to come up with these thing, i'm just an enthusiastic amateur. that seems wrong to me.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 8:26 a.m. CST

    Hey Gargantuan...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...your new name's all right. Whimsy, a hint of mystery and an obvious key word for others to use in responses. This one's a keeper.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 8:38 a.m. CST

    jay2517

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    It's going great! Thanks for asking. Getting a little worried though. Only one year left! Hopefully, Barack and the boys will get to work extending that 99 weeks for me. Really hoping for two full years here!<p>Regarding your "recovering drug addict" thing, my "drug addiction" wasn't really a drug addiction. More like just a lot of good times twenty years ago. And really I think I should be commended for not doing drugs anymore. Especially considering my locale (California) and its permissive attitudes toward pot and such.<p>So (and God knows I dropped politics a long time ago in this talkback, but if jay2517 insists), remember, to keep me unemployed and government teat sucking - support BHO and the Dems in the fall and 2012!

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 8:40 a.m. CST

    scientio-bollocks Vs. religio-bollocks

    by CostCo

    it's interesting someone should bring up the 'science v religion' subject. i see a big flaw with LOST was the decision, at the 11th hour, to lean heavily on the 'religion' aspects of the story - the aspects of faith, the mysticism etc - which, whilst interesting, seemed to me to be a reversal of that they had done with the previous two seasons - they had brought in specialists who could explore and study the effects of the island from a scientific point of view. this decision alone made it feel like we were progressing towards a comprehensible conclusion. of course, in TV-land, neither religion nor science work the way they do out here in the real world, they're a sort of bastardized, 'bollocks' versions of the real thing.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 8:40 a.m. CST

    jay2517, was it you in the prior talkback...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Who insisted that I was lying about being unemployed? Was that you? If so, what brought about your change in opinion?

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 8:44 a.m. CST

    Jayemel

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    I'm talking about the ambiguity about the nature of the island itself, not whether the plot was finalized. David Lynch finalizes most if not all of his plots (Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive), but the nature of the mystery itself is still left ambiguous. Just like Lost and the island.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 8:51 a.m. CST

    Vader may be stubborn, but...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    He makes good points, well-reasoned. Got a lot of respect for the dude even though we differ in our opinions on Lost vis-a-vis the final season and the ending. At least, he knows what he's talking about and can at least address the questions and points of those, like me, who question some aspects of that finale. Others (RPLocke, Hobocode) can't even get the right answers on a show they're defending.<p>I liken that to the "useful idiots" on both sides of the political debate in this country. You've got some really bright, intelligent and thoughtful people on both sides who can articulate and argue the "truth" of their opinions and thoughts on both sides (Vader is the William F. Buckley of the pro-Lost faction) and then you've got the knuckle-draggers on both sides who simply repeat the mantras of their respective sides without the intellectual guns to back up their opinions (Palin on the right, the "Obama's gonna pay my mortgage" gal on the left). I got mad respect for Vader in that.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 8:52 a.m. CST

    Regarding the "haters" comment, Jay2517

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    You should come a little more specific. I love Lost's seasons one through five; I loathe Lost's final season, especially "The End."

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:01 a.m. CST

    And, jay2517, wanna be even MORE angry?

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    As the controller for a company in California that went out of business with both a bachelor's degree and a master's, I max out on my Cali benefits - $1800 a month (minus taxes)! That's on top of the fact that my wife works in the health care industry and makes a tidy little sum, since her job is very, very secure. But, wow, jay2517, that's a lot of vitriol directed at a po' accountant struggling just to get by in a state with a REGULAR unemployment rate of 12% and a REAL unemployment rate that's more like 18%. Ain't ya got no love, brotha?

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:04 a.m. CST

    On the "declared sane" thing from Inception

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    I just think that's more of a plot device than anything truly pertinent to the plot. Like, in a capital murder case, you get docs for the defense saying the guy was crazy and docs for the prosecution saying he was totally sane.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:07 a.m. CST

    Mystery Central

    by CostCo

    I dont think that a central mystery as big and as all reaching as the island on LOST can be ignored effectively in a conclusion. it touches too many of the character stories in such fundamental ways. better at least to give us some attempt at an explanation, even if it's not explicit. it should leave some room for interpretation, but should provide some possibilities. Basically, too much weird shit happens to too many people too often to let it just be 'hey, weird shit happens, let's move on.' perversely, at the beginning of season six, with the alternative timeline events, i was really excited because i thought i could see a really fascinating possibility being mapped out for the end. but this wasn't to be.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:09 a.m. CST

    declared sane? that's crazy talk

    by CostCo

    it's not that difficult to be declared sane, people do it all the time for legal reasons such as drawing up of wills etc. it's called mental competence.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:11 a.m. CST

    Even more annoying than the Island.

    by cookylamoo

    Is the lack of definition of Jacob's powers. Either he's a God level sorcerer or he's a guy who uses old technology and takes a trip now and then by submarine. One thing for sure, drinking the golden liquid doesn't seem to get you any special knowledge.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:15 a.m. CST

    try a little judo

    by CostCo

    the writers of LOST had a real big problem. they'd dug themselves a huge hole with all the coincidences and unlikely connections - how on earth was any of this ever going to get resolved? they should have taken a leaf from Douglas Adams' work - Adams used the example of a Judo master, who uses his opponent's weight and size against him, to resolve the writing problem he had with 'the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy' - if the problem is incredible coincidences, then use coincidences as the solution. it's not that hard.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:15 a.m. CST

    Jacob, the nature of the island, and sins of omission

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    So, the island is "special" and MIB can't leave the island or it's "bad" and you can't destroy the island or it's "bad?" So, if you're Jacob and because of the "rules" (anybody else picking up the AMBIGUITY here, jayemel?), you can't kill MIB and you have to pick candidates to replace you/MIB, why is it that on day three (or five or thirteen or twenty-nine or fifty-seven or eighty-one) that you just don't make a grand appearance to Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, et al., and spill the beans? I mean, the ret-con (and I think it was a poorly done ret-con) was the "specialness" of the island must be protected by "candidates" and that MIB must be contained or killed, right? But Jacob doesn't bother to tell anyone this until MIB/FLocke has killed tons of people, including Eko, Sun, and Jin? How does that make sense?

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:19 a.m. CST

    Okay, does anybody know where...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    I can find the Lost Season 6 Ben and Hurley footage? Other than paying for it, of course, 'cause no way in hell am I doing that. See, I'm a reasonable guy and I'm willing to give the show a chance to make sense to me. I highly doubt, however, that the Jacob stuff is ever gonna make sense.<p>If MIB is a ticking bomb that must be stopped before the show/world ends, who the fuck doesn't just TELL the heroes what's up?

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:22 a.m. CST

    cookylamoo

    by CostCo

    i agree about the powers thing - but in a way that's just a distraction. Jacob and MiB are just ciphers for the island - they dont even need to exist at all, they are almost superfluous as characters they could be anyone, from any time, it's what the island does to them that's important. if you check some of the posts back here, you'll see that the 'origins of jacob & MiB' episode is probably the most hated of the final season, and seen as where the rot began to set in - that's partly because it's wholly unsatisfying as an origin story - because it's the island's origin that's actually important to the progress of this story, not the origins of these two rather dull, empty vessels of characters.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:23 a.m. CST

    Ah! Not out yet.

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Okay. Guess I'll have to wait.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:25 a.m. CST

    Good points all, CostCo (and Cookyalmoo)

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Good points.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:28 a.m. CST

    So, CostCo, you said...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    "[I] could see a really fascinating possibility being mapped out for the end." What was that? Besides the "origin"/explanation being that Jacob and MIB were just earlier Losties, one of my biggest points of contention always been that purgatory/flash sideways shit. I had my thoughts which I stated before. What were yours?

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:31 a.m. CST

    Referents Library

    by CostCo

    the reason there's so much ambiguity about how things work on the island, the reason why nothing ever seems to work in the same way more than once, the reason why there are even rules at all, is because the Island is a Referent. it responds to the people who find it and live on it, it amplifies their beliefs and thoughts and goals and makes them real. believe in ghosts? hey, guess what, there are ghosts here you can chat to. looking for redemption? the island can give you that. sick or lame and desperately looking for an impossible cure? the island has that cure. need to become a leader of men? here, the island makes that possible. traumatised by the fact that you mother died whilst giving birth to you? guess what? the island applies that trauma to all pregnant women. it responds to the people that inhabit it, making desires and fears real. there was probably a time when there wasnt even an island at all - just an idea and a bunch of raw potential. then some primitive peoples, cast out in a small boat and caught in a tropical storm, panicked and desperate for somewhere to land, wandered into it and - look! land! THAT'S an origin story i want to see.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:34 a.m. CST

    That Girl From the Lowe's Commercial

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Well said about D. Vader. That guy is a shining fucking beacon here. I got no problem with a difference of opinion. Some people like the Lost ending and they've got their reasons. Some people don't and they've got their reasons. Most of the vitriol here comes from the defenders side when somebody on the "didn't like" side raises one of their points, one of their reasons why. Now, I'm a fairly reasonable guy and, despite what Hobocode might claim, I readily admit when I'm wrong. (Just ask Revenge of Fett sometime or look in the above where I agree that some of Vader's explanations make sense.) What is galling, however, is the "haters" term getting thrown about and the general anger that one posits questions about Lost that, to him, doesn't make sense. I've never called anyone an idiot or a moron or a fucktard for LIKING the ending of Lost. Like I said, to each his own. I'm just interested in some explanations for questions that I have. Vader can usually produce those in spades. Doesn't mean that I always buy 'em or agree with 'em, but at least that guy does it with intelligence and aplomb, not "fuck you, you hater!"

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:38 a.m. CST

    Interesting, CostCo

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    I could buy that, but I'd still like a more definitive origin/explanation. Like, okay, it's a referent, but where does that power (to make what you think/feel real) come from? What made the island able to do that?

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:44 a.m. CST

    Bicycle Sharer

    by CostCo

    it's pretty clear that the island has this amazing power. so much so that one half of the protagonists are trying to harness it whilst the other are trying to hide it. this power seems to be about the ability to manipulate chance, luck, probability....this fits with some multidimensional theories that say that each decision we make creates and destroys potential universes. particle theory talks about potential and the apparent impossibility of two things being equally real, at least until the probability wave is collapsed into one definitive answer. so, it seems to me that the island has the ability to manipulate the outcomes of probability, to craft new realities. you might see that as being 'luck' - i could see Widmore wanting the ability to create your own luck - it could even be a resource you could buy and sell, to the highest bidder. the flash sideways stuff? it's an alternative universe. but not a 'real' one, at least not yet. events on the island could have unfolded to allow the inhabitants to know of this Alt-world, (particularly with Jack seeing it in the lighthouse) and to realise that they must defeate Widmore and MiB (they should have become allies at the end i feel) to give 'reality' to this 'potential' alternate. then they could have all died on the island, knowing it didn't matter. like juliette, they saw the new reality and fought for it.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:47 a.m. CST

    Origins of Power

    by CostCo

    OK stay with me on this one Bicycle (can i call you Bike? no). thie island is a reality manipulation engine. basically it's a universe building Power Tool. and, if you feel a little Holy, then it's one God used when he made the world (in six days? the island can bend time) but forgot to tidy back into his toolbox.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:47 a.m. CST

    I download Dr. Who, Choppah

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    And I watch it upstairs. ;-)

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:51 a.m. CST

    LOL, CostCo

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    That is fucking wild - the manipulation engine! 'Cause I just wrote this big long post about leftover "energy" from Creation (no religion here but just the general concept) about "He 'spake' the world into existence!" I deleted it before posting, content to just go with what you'd first posited. I guess you left enough of the kernel of that idea in your original post (which you expanded) to make me think that. Too funny.<p>Now, that all having been said (and, again, I like it), where did that 'manipulation' engine come from? What's its source? Its origin?

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:52 a.m. CST

    Ewww, Evangeline

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Give me Elizabeth Mitchell any day. No, please, give her to me. ;-)

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:53 a.m. CST

    Ned...

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    I just noticed your post but am on my way out the door to work. You probably weren't expecting any response but rest assured when I have time I'll whip something up. I would like to make it clear that I'm not bashing any of the shows under discussion (least of all The Wire because it's one of my favorite shows in recent times) as I think they're all mostly amazing, but that doesn't mean they're without flaws and not subject to conversation based on said flaws as well as their merits.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:54 a.m. CST

    Saw Naveen Andrews last night

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    On a Law & Order SVU repeat. Love that guy. Made me realize something. I really appreciate the fine work that all the ACTORS did on that show. My disdain for the producers and writers doesn't extend to the cast. I'd watch any and all of 'em in anything, any time. (Except, of course, in the Lost special features DVD if I have to pay for it.)

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:01 a.m. CST

    If MIB was bad...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Because he was a murdering bastard, then what's that say about Jacob who allowed him to do so without explaining anything to the Losties before a lot of blood was spilled?

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:02 a.m. CST

    Christian Shepherd's Pie

    by CostCo

    it wouldnt take much tweaking to the final episode either. think about it: Hugo is left in charge of the isalnd, and the final players, including Hugo all congregate in a church. Jack's dad comes in and tells them, this is where you sort your shit out, ready to move on to the afterlife. they hug each other and smile or cry. then Hugo, from the pulpit says, "actually...that's not what's happening here, boss" turns out he's had several lifetimes on the island since we last saw him, and has really got to know it's tricks. he's as much a master as any mortal can be. Shepherd comes to him, says, i want my Tool back. Hugo says, i know what this thing is, and before i give it back, we have to sort out the trapped souls of my friends (yes, the island traps souls too, why? someone sometime decided that's what's happening). we'll make another reality, to let them have a decent life before they finally die. Shepherd agrees. the alternate is made. but Hugo knows the truth - that the Island's power is too Strong even for Shepherd. "all you have to do, guys, is agree that this is real. and it will be. you can walk out into that light, or walk out into the world. your choice." crash in end BOOM and LOST logo. instead of ending with FATE - there;s nothing you can do about any of it, and you're going to die anyway - end on CHOICE - a human choice, to live or die. THAT's and end.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:02 a.m. CST

    Okay, gotta go...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Mai tais, yahtzee, and all that. Have fun.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Bicyle Sharer

    by CostCo

    it's been fun. i'm out also. Laters.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:15 a.m. CST

    That_Girl_From_The_Lowes

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Your confident talk of some "objective" standard is very silly

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:15 a.m. CST

    Why isn't there more fucking on this island?

    by Royston Lodge

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIl0rYbW_hU

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:25 a.m. CST

    The problem with all these great Ideas we have.

    by cookylamoo

    Is that the egos of the writers were so big they'd rather not explain anything rather than use them. Or maybe they really thought we'd sue them.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:25 a.m. CST

    Re the "declared sane" thing in INCEPTION...

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    ...I just took it that she paid three crooked doctors to supply her with a "declared sane" legality certificate of some kind, without her even having to explain why.<P> "I need a certificate to legally declare me sane, Doc."<P> "Sure. Why me?"<P> "I'm told you can supply it through... umm... unofficial channels."<P> "Fifty thousand dollars. What's it about?"<P> "Custody battle."<P> "There you go. Have a nice day."<P> THAT'S what I imagined, anyway. Just dirty dealing with crooked psychiatrists. Nothing more.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:28 a.m. CST

    you can stop calling him MIB now

    by lostboytexas

    it was officially Samuel<p>http://tinyurl.com/2upjqaq

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:30 a.m. CST

    Damnit I still haven't seen Inception yet

    by D.Vader

    I find myself having to tread closely around here to avoid spoilers.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:33 a.m. CST

    Thanks Bike Sharer, Red Ned, and GirlWithGiant...

    by D.Vader

    ... Forehead. Its like a friggin' lovefest in here suddenly =). <p> Honestly, though, thanks. I do try to keep things civil because I just like to debate and discuss the show. I've no interest in shouting out insults or yelling above the fracas. I much prefer to just discuss theories, fill in holes, and at times correct the other side when they get something wrong =).

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:39 a.m. CST

    How about this ending...

    by Anaximandar

    As much as I'd rather see a split timeline reconciled somehow.. I think this ending would have worked better than the turd we were handed: The buttplug of the island is the gateway to the puragatory/sideways world. When the cork is pulled, no souls can get to purgatory and just blank out. That is why the island is so important. Have Desmond pull the cork, and then have someone die that should be in purgatory - but they don't get there (like Kate). Then Jack has to plug the cork back up so the electro-magna-gateway works again. The stakes are established, the characters actions are meaningful, and the irrevelant sideways world is tied into the main plotline of Lost.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:55 a.m. CST

    Loved the ending

    by Razorback

    But that is not to say I think it was the best possible ending. I have heard so many ideas that would have worked better for me. But I don't pine for what didn't happen. Some of you need to learn to move on.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:04 a.m. CST

    Don't want to spoil "Inception" any more.

    by cookylamoo

    All in all it's a great film. But the beauty of it is that if you DO think there are plot holes and things that don't make sense, Nolan has that covered too.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:08 a.m. CST

    LOL! Love fest, Vader?

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    If you see a glowing ad<p> At the top of your screen<p>That says 'Ain't It Cool News, com,<p>Love Vader, yeah<p> I'm headin' down the internet highway<p>Lookin' for some cool news today,<p>Heading for Vader's getaway<p>I got me a screen,<p>It's as big as a whale And we're headin' on down to the Cool News.<p>Well, I got a computer,<p>It's faster than shit,<p>So hurry up, get ready to sit and sit!<p>AICN is a little old place,<p>Where we can get together<p>Love D. Vader,<p> (We love D. Vader)<p>Love D. Vader,<p>Love D.<p>Love D. Vader,<p>Love D.<p>;-)

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:11 a.m. CST

    Yuck!

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Who was the guy who always used to post his made up song lyrics? Yeah. I'm channeling THAT guy!<p>Glad to know ya, Vader. Though we may disagree, you're all right, man.<p>Okay, back to writing (my stuff, not this stuff).

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:13 a.m. CST

    Spud McSpud

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    You nailed it on Inception. I mean, shit, psychiatrists? Fucking please. Next to the DEA, they're the crookedest niggahs on this plane!

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:15 a.m. CST

    Which, actually

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Is why I disdain psychiatry as a "science." Find three psychiatrists and they'll give you four opinions. That ain't science.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:15 a.m. CST

    That's four opinions...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Each!

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:16 a.m. CST

    Vader, you mind me asking something?

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Just curious really. Job, age, location? Where yat, whatcha do, and how old you be?

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:17 a.m. CST

    And I ask 'cause you're an island of sanity...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    On AICN. And I include myself in the insane category. ;-)

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:25 a.m. CST

    *in the voice of Ogre*

    by Olsen Twins_Fan

    Neeeerrrrrdddddssssss!!!!

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:25 a.m. CST

    Hahaha, nice Bike Sharer

    by D.Vader

    Clever! You're channeling... shit I forgot who it was. But he would post the real lyrics but relate them to that particular episode of LOST. I haven't seen him 'round here in a long time. He only stopped by for the LOST talkbacks anyway.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:31 a.m. CST

    Okie Dokie Bike Sharer

    by D.Vader

    I'm a 28 year old filmmaker and I live in North Carolina. I work in the industry, mainly in commercials that shoot in the area, but have also worked on a few low budget movies (and not so low budget like Talladega Nights), some tv shows, and some reality shows like Jon and Kate Plus 8, either as a PA or in the art department. I shoot video for a small, local business, and make short films for contests when I can. Hoping to make my first feature within the year. <p> And though I might not want to, I can be pretty insane too. I started off the day railing against GI JOE in that story's talkback.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:46 a.m. CST

    Anaximandar

    by CostCo

    as i see it, the buttplug in the golden cave is only there because, at some time, island inhabitants decided this was the way to deal with the weird shit that was happening on the island. like the magic donkey wheel, it only works because the people who put it there believe it works. like the computer in the first Dharma station, where you put in a bunch of numbers to stop the island exploding. works because those who made it said it would. in their own way, each of these peoples were trying to do the same thing - control the island, without really knowing what it was. these devices only work because the island's power is to change reality to be what you want, more or less - and if what you want is a donkey wheel that moves the island, that's what you get.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:53 a.m. CST

    Seriously...

    by Beaverduck

    To quote Gladiator, "Are you not entertained!!??" It's a fucking show. You watched it because it was good and interesting. They ended the show on their terms. Fuck your feelings. Fuck all that so easily turn on their heroes.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:57 a.m. CST

    it's a Writer's trick

    by CostCo

    the idea that the sland is a God-Level device that can manipulate time and space may seem a bit fantastical, but in fact it's a metaphor for the way that many writers manipulate characters and events to create 'drama' and 'tension'. good writers do this without breaking the rule of plausibility - poor writers dont really bother with plausibility, in fact the writers of LOST found themselves with a brilliant loophole that allowed them to push their characters around in any way they wanted without having to be plausible. Problem was, in the end, they had to either address the weirdness or hold up their hands and say 'you got me'. they decided to do neither, hence the animosity amongst their fans. LOST suffered from an almost terminal case of Sheherazade Syndrome.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 12:02 p.m. CST

    Seriously...?

    by CostCo

    after all this time, there are still posters out there who think 'it's only a show' and 'get a life' are actual vital contributions? Why bother? hey, it's just a talkback. Get a Life.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 12:07 p.m. CST

    That could have been any show's finale

    by matineer

    But that's what they did and the writers should just move on. They had some good seasons. Hard for me to consider LOST a classic, now, though. However, that was some of the best TV on in years.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 12:07 p.m. CST

    Awwwe look.. .Bicycle is coming to grips with his homosexuality.

    by HoboCode

    Good to see you finally admitting it bro. Too bad you still need to try and pick up straight North Carolinana filmmakers on AICN. Don't worry. As you grow into your new skin you will gain the confidence to ask out real dudes in your area. Give it time.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 12:31 p.m. CST

    I am starting to wonder if people actually watched the show

    by Qwerty834

    Are people really confused thinking they have been dead since the start? I don’t understand why most of you keep saying the story we followed didn’t matter....did you even watch the show? The show did not end with finding out they were all dead. We found out that Kate, sawyer, miles, Claire, lapidis and Richard got off the island and lived their lives. Jack finally felt like his life had purpose he fixed what was broken and the island lives on to help future people. Hurley finally breaks his curse and finally finds his life’s calling and he’s doing what he does best and that’s help people. Ben came full circle and has finally embraced his first problem....jealousy. He was 2nd to Locke and couldn’t handle it and now the island has given him a second chance with Hurley and he, as we find out, does a great job. We find out in the FS that Locke forgives Ben for what he did and Locke realizes that his death is what set all of this in motion. This is not interpretation these are just key items that are not spoon-fed to trolls like most of you.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Random Answers

    by Qwerty834

    The one thing that I think even the biggest “self proclaimed” fan of lost keeps forgetting is that NONE of the characters on the show knew what the island was. Not Ben, not MiB, not Richard, NOT EVEN JACOB! We took the journey just like the characters did, blindly and confused. here are some "Unanswered" Answers for everyone. STATUE: OOOOO who built the statue I WANT TO KNOW!!!!! I have to ask why....why do you want to see the statue being built; it serves no purpose to the end game of the story being told. Everyone bitched about "Expose" and other "filler" episodes yet they want an entire episode of nobody’s building a giant statue where we all know they all just end up dead. Yeah that’s right they all end up DEAD! Why does anyone want to see this, when it has nothing to do with the story. Jacob lived there….The End ELOISE: In the real world she knew everything that happened because she lived it. In 1977 she saw everything that happened before the bomb exploded. So she did the same things to make sure faradays destiny came true and it came full circle just like she saw. In the FS she knew everything because she died in the real world and saw faraday and got her memories back, which is why she told des he wasn’t ready. She wanted to keep faraday as long as she could because she knew what she did to him before death. Desmond: When he gets blasted by widmore his mind warps to the flash sideways. He doesn’t control the actions his flash sideways self is doing he just lives it. So when Desmond finally sees Penny and wakes up on the island it sets 2 things in motion. In the flash sideways Desmond knows hes dead and knows he was just on oceanic 815 and knows he is the one to “awake” his friends. And on the island Desmond thinks what he saw is where he can take everyone, a place where everything is right. Funny thing is that he almost does kill everyone which would have brought them all to the flash sideways, but Jack is there to delay it Polar Bears: They clearly explained how Dharma did experiments taking animals from other habitats and seeing how they survived on the island (this was said by Dr Chang in season 5 when he threatens Hurley and miles). Plus they must have tried to zap polar bears through time, remember there was a chamber used for this before locke and ben blew it up, because the dharma symbol on the tag in Tunisia is where it took Locke and Ben when they turned the wheel…..Pretty much common sense answers here. WALT: As for Walt it’s pretty simple that the others feared Walt’s powers to be used against them (as seen on ROOM 23 mobisode) and because he was not on Jacobs’s list he was shipped off the island with Michael. Plus not to mention the actor was getting old BOMB: They did not die from the bomb; yes some people are dumb enough to not understand that, they caused their plane crash. What happened happened they caused the hatch to be built and the bomb blasted them to the present time. Seasons 1 to 5: People saying they don’t matter is silly. When you watch them you can see how the MIB lead Locke on the path to his demise. All of the characters who died, that emotion is still there because they did die. No cop out in the end where they live happily ever after. The seasons also take us on the journey of how they all found each other and how they all needed each other. I am only on season 2 on my rewatch since the finale and everything makes so much more sense since. Dharma: The story was explained you just have to look for the answers. PLUS not to mention the fake ABC doc on them explained a bunch of stuff. Also Everything that was explained in season 2 and 3 about dharma is what happened after Juliet blew up the bomb. They built the hatch and had to push the button. Radzinski prob shot himself because since he knew the place was not really quarantined, he left the hatch and saw that the dharma team were gassed and killed went back and shot himself, because he knew the button had to be pushed forever. Also having to know that responsibility would be forever his was too much for him. He did have a partner but how he acted in season 5 it seemed like he only trusted himself for everything. Also after killing dharma it’s safe to assume that Ben took it over and made it seem like operations he was doing was for dharma. Hanso, who is very rich and powerful, kept funding dharma thinking it still had a presence on the island. Across the Sea: One of the major points missed in Across the sea is that “Mother” was a lunatic and It’s safe to say that even she didn’t know what the light was. She was trying to get replacements because she was trapped just like Jacob. When she is finally killed she thanks MiB because she is finally free. That episode was there to show that the history of the island goes further back then can even be told.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Breaking Bad...

    by DoubleFantasy

    ...is criminally under-rated/talked about/reviewed by just about everyone as someone earlier posted. I seem to recall a post by sumone on aintitcool for episode 7 or sumthin from series 3 but then nuthin after that. Shame. It's one of the best series on tv.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 1:07 p.m. CST

    Qwerty834

    by CostCo

    you have plenty of good points. i like it when a show encourages this kind of interest and imagination. there's merit in what you say, but there might be room for a little more investigation with some of your 'answers'. i think the origin of the three toed statue isn't as irrelevant as you might think - i believe there's probably a clear pattern of social change on the island, whereby the majority of the population live with a number of preconceived beliefs about their world and the island, possibly for quite some time, until a single powerful individual arrives or rises who questions that status quo, and whose persona is so powerful that it changes the reality of what the island is, and the rest of the population are thrown into confusion, fighting and breaking into factions, until the new leader finally takes charge. the three toed man who was important enough to have a huge statue made was probably such a figure. showing us how things happened in the past on the island, and how they parallel the events of the present, would be good storytelling.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 1:14 p.m. CST

    I'm only watching Season One of Breaking Bad

    by cookylamoo

    But it seems to me that Bryan Cranston overacts as much on this show as he did on Malcolm in the Middle. He has one standard character bit, acting like he has to take some terrific dump.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 1:17 p.m. CST

    As to D.Vader's Job.

    by cookylamoo

    If I remember correctly, he robs banks.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Sharer- i TOTALLY believe ur on unemployment...

    by jay2517

    as for the "haters' comment...u fall into that because u insist to ALWAYS question the answers. no matter what they may be. example: jack's the protector now...Sharer- but why?? answer- because jacob made him that way. sharer- but why?? ad nauseum...

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 1:20 p.m. CST

    and ur welcome Keblar...

    by jay2517

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Desmond

    by CostCo

    how does Widmore's 'device' connect Desmond's consciousness with his 'afterlife' self? not by any scientific means, that's for sure. knowing as we do that Desmond is able to survive shifting consciousness through time, which he survives because of his inner determination to see the woman he loves, it makes more sense that he might be connected to other temporal realities, but the Afterlife? why? and why big electromagnets? they just kill normal people, why not Desmond? clearly, what makes Desmond special is within him, and how what makes him special connects with the power of the island. Widmore's device works differently with Desmond because Widmore believes it will - that's one of the ways Widmore connects with the island - he fears it, but desires it. there are numerous examples of how things work only because they are believed to work in the show, right up to the cup of stream water he gets Jack to drink before declaring 'now you're like me'. it suggests an ancient, mystical ceremony, but it lacks any of the real trappings. it's just a cup with some water. it only transforms the drinker because, hey, that's what you were expecting.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 1:37 p.m. CST

    If Querty 834 Is Right, and only he can puzzle it out.

    by cookylamoo

    Then it's still a fail for Lindelof because if only 2 percent of your audience understands your plot you're playing to the elite in a medium for the masses. This isn't Finnegan's Wake, for Christ sake.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 1:41 p.m. CST

    moving about in time

    by CostCo

    what i find interesting is that the whole 'island moving through time' and the other time-bending effects on the island only really took hold once Faraday the genius physics prof turned up. and he was able to observe, measure and report them. or was it that the island made them happen because that was what he desperately hoped to find? it's no different than Jack seeing his dead father, something he must have subconciously wanted through his bottled up grief and unresolved daddy issues. For Faraday, time travel fulfils a deep seated desire of his, evidence of the power of the universe. the problems arise when he contemplates the complexities of that's happening; being wrenched from one time and pushed into another repeatedly; it cant be good for a person. and guess what? now it isnt. brain damage and death. it's like the mystery of the women who die in childbirth. clearly this has to be something to do with Ben Linus' mother dying when she gave birth to him. he fears childbirth, and so his subconcious caused the island to prevent women coming to term.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 1:58 p.m. CST

    cookylamoo, you're right

    by CostCo

    whilst my 'reality bending engine' idea is cute, i'm disturbed at how easily it fits all the unexplained stuff in LOST. Disturbed, because it suggests, more that very clever plotting, that LOST was the product of a bunch of guys sitting around and saying, 'what if the island can shift through time? We could bring in a crazy science nerd to check it out. yeah, that sounds sweet, let's do it. how about if women cant have babies? ooo, then we could have a hot baby doctor brought in from outside, yeah, we'll worry about why later." clearly, this is not an ideal way to run a complex storyline. i know television is a mass medium, but people less imaginative than us tuned in in droves to see what happened next. like a soap opera with ghosts and monsters. but LOST wan never going to be a soap opera, you can't keep pulling out puzzles like that forever,and eventually you'll be expected to cover a lot of this in some sort of conclusion. the end of LOST shows that these guys had no kind of playbook, no structure beyond an ever expanding mystery, and no idea what much of it really meant. And it shows.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:05 p.m. CST

    My Final Word for the day

    by CostCo

    Lindelof and his cohort really need to go look at THE LOST ROOM to see how to do this kind of show. a total original, it had a book of simple rules that ran all the weird stuff, and the writers stuck to them, using them in fact to enhance plotting and storytelling rather than restrict them. those guys knew their end before they wrote their beginning. there's a pure pleasure in watching a show that actually knows where it's headed.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:26 p.m. CST

    Well, D. Vader

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    You're aces in my book. Glad to know you and you definitely seem to have an interesting background. And a temperate disposition. ;-) Later, man. Back to work. (Not REAL work, jay2517. Personal work.)

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:28 p.m. CST

    And homocode

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    You'd definitely be the "go to" guy for giving advice on picking up dudes. I guess when you're a homosexual, there are some advantages to having a mother who's a whore. Sounds like she trained you well.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:28 p.m. CST

    CostCo

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Will pick up Lost Room. Never got a chance to watch it. Thanks.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:30 p.m. CST

    You can get The Lost Room pretty cheap right now online

    by Coughlins Laws

    It was really good. each night I watched it, it stuck in my head...

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Jay2517, you're a fuckin' moron

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    For real. And I say that, not as a slam or a slight, but because it's really actually true. You're a fuckin' moron. Certainly your reason and example for calling me a "hater" paints you as a fuckin' moron. I never asked "why Jack was protector" and "why did Jacob pick him?" I ask pertinent questions that, to me, make fucking sense. And they make sense to anybody that isn't a raving fuckin' moron like yourself. I'm satisfied when I get satisfactory answers from people like Vader who, unlike yourself, RPCocke, and Homocode, is not a raving fuckin' moron. In fact, if you weren't a raving fuckin' moron, you'd be able to read back here and in other talkbacks and discover places like the Jacob's cabin shit above where I said, "Huh. Okay. That made sense. I was wrong." You'd also discover the number of times that I praised seasons one through five, stating that I own the fucking DVDs. (You know, as a "hater" I love to shell out money for shit I "hate" like Lost.) But you know what, you're a raving fuckin' moron of the first order so none of that will happen and none of that matters. So please just continue your idiotic aspersions while I continue to ask questions that MIGHT be answered. (Still waiting on the why Jacob didn't speak up and what was Desmond's point in Jacob's plan when he was, in fact, the only person who could destroy the island.) I'll kindly try to ignore you as I'm too busy spending my gov'ment money to waste time on raging fuckin' morons.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:38 p.m. CST

    LMAO! Cookylamoo

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    I was like, "D. Vader robs banks? What the fuck does that mean?" And then I remembered the fucking pics of that bank and laughed so fucking hard I woke my dog up! Thanks, dude, that was good!

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:41 p.m. CST

    QWERTY834

    by Balrog77

    Totally agree with you. The major answers are there for those who care enough to think about them for more than 2 seconds. And most of the other questions that are brought up really are irrelevant. I will say, there are A FEW unanswered questions that I think were important and a few others that were somewhat underwhelming. But overall it was a fantastic ending to a fantastic show.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:41 p.m. CST

    Just ordered Lost Room

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    On Amazon. Using my lawfully obtained unemployment compensation. That shit was mad cheap ($3.99 plus shipping!) Nonetheless, thank you, Uncle Sam! And thank you, Jay2517 - your tax dollars made this possible!

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:46 p.m. CST

    They did BSG it...

    by Balrog77

    I actually agree with those who say they BSG'd the ending, in that they focused little on mythology on more on concluding the character's arcs. But man, they BSG'd it so damn well. I was so incredibly satisfied, whereas with BSG I was pretty ticked off, and have never rewatched and probably never will.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:46 p.m. CST

    Here's an important one, Qwerty and Balrog

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    What was the point of Desmond, the Constant, in Jacob's plan? He was the only guy who could "pull the plug" (immune to electromagnetism or whatever) and, thus, the only guy who could destroy the island. So, Jacob sends him to the island without telling him what to do and doesn't tell Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, and Kate either. So, what was his point?<p>Look at it this way: the Island is a room in your house that you don't want to explode. But it's got dynamite in it and CAN explode. Now, you can't remove the dynamite, but it can't explode without the FUSE. Fair enough. Everything's kosher unless the FUSE shows up, right? Jacob sent the FUSE to the island and never bothered to tell ANYONE his "master plan" or "don't let this motherfucker over here pull that big fucking rock outta that glowy pool." You know, PERTINENT information.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 2:57 p.m. CST

    Or fuck Desmond and the plug for a minute

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Can someone explain to me (without the Maguffin of "The Rules") why Jacob just didn't show up around season two or three or four and say...<p>"Listen up, motherfuckers, 'cause this is gonna save your lives! You've seen some pretty weird shit go down on this island. Some crazy stuff. Now, I can't explain all of that shit or even most of it. But I can tell you this, I'm a 2,000 year old dude who's trying to stop my brother, the Smoke Monster, from leaving this island. You gotta help me and you gotta trust me. But be careful - that motherfucker is sneaky and he can look like anyone who's dead, but he can't kill, you and you and you and you and you."<p>"Oh, shit," Jack says. "I been seeing dead motherfuckers for weeks now."<p>"Yeah, that's my brother fucking with you. But, straight up now, I'm here to help."<p>"Coolio, Jacob, 'cause, honestly, the Smoke Monster is a vicious fuck and who the fuck is gonna trust somebody who appears as dead people? We're with ya, brother!"<p>"Did somebody say 'brotha,'" a voice calls out. Everyone turns to see Desmond approaching.<p>"Hello, brotha," he says as he approaches Jacob.<p>"Oh, yeah, fuck," Jacob says, "I forgot about him. Yeah, here's the deal. We gotta get this cat the fuck off the island and never, ever, ever, ever let this motherfucker back 'cause he's the only person who can destroy this place and Smokey just might try to use him to do that."<p>"Well, that's fine with me, brotha," Desmond says. "I got a girl named Penny I'm dying to see."<p>"Well, then bitches, let's get a motherfucking move on," Jacob says.<p>And, with that, three or four seasons of ridiculous mayhem and deaths get avoided.<p>Can someone explain WHY that didn't happen?

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 3:11 p.m. CST

    The Funny Part about Darth Vader robbing a bank.

    by cookylamoo

    Is that not only did he wear the helmet as a disguise, he wore the friggin' cape, too. Unless, or course, the cape is attached to the helmet.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Did somboday say BROTHA!

    by Qwerty834

    Ha i laughed pretty hard on that one. The story of lost always had a bigger focus on Jack and even during seasons he wasnt the main "hero" you always knew in the back of your head that Jack is the piece to the puzzle. Whatever happens when you drink that water and become one with the island, i think Jack saw what he needed to do. Desmond pulling out the rock is what lead Jack to kill the MIB and then saving the island, fulfilling his destiny. Jack knew once he stepped onto Ajira 316 that his fate may not be peaches and cream if you ask me.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 3:26 p.m. CST

    To costco

    by Qwerty834

    The reason why dez gets blasted to the flash sideways is because Widmore almost kills him, which is what takes you to the FS. We learned that from Juliet saying it worked. Since Dez has a tolerance for Electromag he survives but is also confused on what he saw.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 3:28 p.m. CST

    poor Sharer...u DID watch ur 1-5 seasons right??

    by jay2517

    *sigh* anyway here we go... Jacob brought everyone to the island to counteract MIB. MIB represents tyrannical rule and Jacob represents FREE WILL. thats why he doesnt DIRECTLY interfere with the Losties during the series. he WANTS them to FREELY CHOOSE how they will "protect" the island (IF they even choose TO protect it). MIB wants to DIRECTLY FORCE (ie by killing and/or directly manipulating) them to help him leave/destroy the island. same as Desmond- he brought him there but wanted him to freely choose to help/hinder MIB. u DID WATCH the Alpert episode right? the shows really not THAT hard to understand brotha...

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 3:31 p.m. CST

    i second the telling of Kate to SHUT THE FUCK UP lol!!!

    by jay2517

    FUCK THAT CUNT BITCH broheim...

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 3:36 p.m. CST

    What is the island, what is MIB's real name, who is mother?

    by DarthBakpao

    , who built the statue? So many questions, but there's only one answers to all of them, BULLSHIT! Yes, Lindelof and Cuse wrote bullshit and made money out of it

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 3:37 p.m. CST

    There's a scene from the Ben Hurley epilog up!

    by RPLocke

    It's on Access Hollywood. Ben enters a Dharma printing plant.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 3:39 p.m. CST

    answer, not answers

    by DarthBakpao

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 3:42 p.m. CST

    Bicycle Sharer

    by A G

    That faux-kevin smith analysis was cringe worthy. Please don't post like that again.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 4:20 p.m. CST

    MIB's Name

    by paburrows

    That was debunked a few hours after it was posted on DarkUFO. MIB's name is not Samuel.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 4:21 p.m. CST

    I just had an awesome idea

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Maybe this works for you: Season 6 can stand pretty much as is. I think you'd have to take out Christian's speech about "you made this place" But the get together scene at the end has the light envelop everyone and then we fade in from the all-encompassing white ... to Jack's eye opening up. <p>The gist of it is is the bomb creates the alt-world but its function is the same as in S6: A place they go when they die to meet up. However it's also a trap of sorts. No matter what happened in their lives on the island or long after they got off the island, instead of moving on, they go to limbo, find each other so their "karass" is complete again, move on into the light, thinking that's what's next, and the cycle starts again. They've created a looping mechanism ... <p>I bet the writers thought of this but maybe considered it too dark? I think it would be awesome though.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 4:29 p.m. CST

    The End and Answers

    by Anaximandar

    I hate the last 10 minutes of The End and it has nothing to do with unanswered questions. But I want to delve into the unanswered questions for a minute. <p> First, you can fill in the gray areas to the questions all you want and 'think about' the answers all you want, and even explain how YOU think it all fits together. But from the beginning, this show has been about making you think about the answers and then flipping it on you and telling you how you were wrong. Any attempt now to 'fill in the blanks' by thinking about them is moot - because in LOST:The Movie, they will show you that Eloise is really a robotic Ninja-Thetan that can Teleport into Desmond's subconcious when he turns failsafe keys. My point is - they can abstract some themey stuff for thought, but narrative plot threads NEED to be tied up in a black-and-white box for a show like LOST because it's MO is to always keep you guessing. <p> A commonly missed point that apologists like to 'fill in the blanks' with, is that the ash ring WAS NOT broken when Locke and Ben went there, but was broken when Ilana went there. So Ben could not have been taking orders from MiB the whole time, since Smokey was free in the jungle. Just wanted to point that out and see if you can make it fit with the information given. <p> I hate the last 10 minutes, not for unanswered questions, but for the paper-thin game-changing twist that was DESIGNED to fool you thru deceit and no foreshadowing. If I ever re-watch seasons five and six (doubtful) then I'll just continue to see Lindelhof and Cuse shooting me the middle finger as they waste my time building up a sideways world that is DESIGNED to be a twist. It's their narrative shenanigans (underwater island is a lie) that I'll see, not as organic to the story or characters, but constructed with the purpose of being deceitful to the viewer. All the sole purpose of just going 'A HA! Look! the Twist!' Nothing clicks together, nothing is airtight, and nothing works. The truly awesome 'awakening' scenes (and it was really good up till the twist) hold no weight and no longer work. Not only do I see them giggling as they think they pulled a fast one on me, but I feel cheated out of an awesome idea they presented and could have went with, if they were not so dedicated to trying to con me. The Twist feels tacked on and doesn't jive with anything else in the series. <p> Baring that Series-Ruining Shenanigan, Some questions I'd like answered are:<Br> 1) What happens if the Island sinks? I.E. Why do we care about the glowy love-hole and its existence?<br> 2) What are the rules of purgatory? How do you get there and why didn't Michael go there? Why are you lost there until woken up - that seems stupid when your already dead. What happens if Jack doesn't want to go thru the door with his spirit cluster? Can you die there? What happens if you don't wake up?<br> 3) What powers does Jacob have and why didn't Jack get them right away? It looks like he can protect and heal people and conjure lighthouses out of thin air, but How did he figure that out?<br> 4) What are the rules? Why wasn't Widmore allowed to kill Ben's Daughter?<Br> 5) What was the sickness or 'being claimed' all about? It didn't do any permanent damage to Sayid before he blew up - and he still made it to purgatory-land and beyond - but it drove Danielle's Science Team into a murderous ramrage? Seems like shoe-horned plot devices to me.<br> 6) Why couldn't the Others have babies? You can 'fill in the blanks' that it was the Bomb and releasing the energy every 108 minutes - but you know where that gets us. Robot ninjas.<br> 7) How did Eloise get into Desmond's Flash? Last I checked, Desmond got off the island and didn't go back to DHARMA, so how did Eloise know about him? Faraday's Book? What did he write in it about Desmond, except that he's a constant? Why the ambiguity with Eloise and Widmore?<br> 8) Why couldn't anybody find the island unless you were brought there? (was it Jacob? see question 3. Why the bearing to leave? Mother didn't seem to know about the other group of island exploiters that MiB went with, or even the ship that brough Jacob or MiB, so did she bring them? Why couldn't Desmond leave on the sailboat? Why was the island so hard to find? <p> There were other questions that I didn't care so much about, like the outrigger scene, the dharma food drop, who built the statue, was the psychic a fraud?, and what the healing pool was all about - but that stuff I could forgive if they hit the main strides. And they completely and utterly fucking failed at giving us anything satisfying that had anything to do with mythology or plot. And the cool character stuff they gave us they washed away in the last 10 minutes as meaningless because they were already dead. <p>

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Sigh. Poor jay2517

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Doesn't understand the difference between free will/informed choices and manipulation/ignorance. You do know the English language, right? See, your theory falls all to SHIT, jay2517, with the fact that Jacob DOES tell them some shit. In fact, just about enough shit to keep everybody in suspense, questioning the mystery, until next week and... <p>L O S T<p>There's a big, big, big, big fucking difference between free will and choices and keeping motherfuckers in the dark until the 118th episode, uh, I mean, "when the time is right" and the writers, uh, I mean, "Jacob" is ready 'cause the show is almost over, uh, I mean, "the island's about to be destroyed."<p>Fuck! Where is Vader when you need him?<p>Goddamn it, jay2517, that kind of sarcastic bullshit is part of the reason fuckers get so pissed around here? You could've explained that shit nicely. (And you'd still be wrong.) Instead, you gotta act like an ass. What the fuck causes that?<p>One more time, just so you understand, Jacob saying he's for "individual choice" versus "manipulation" is dead fucking wrong. Can't be right 'cause he tells them more and more (but nowhere near everything) as shit progresses. In fact, he does so in episode 119. Here, let ME fucking help YOU:<p>From wiki:<p>Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sawyer make it to the campfire, where Jacob (who they can all see for the first time) tells them that they were brought to the island to take his place as protector of the island, and they were chosen above others because they were like him. They, throughout their lives, had nothing to cling to, and felt alone in the world, so he brought them here because they needed to fill that empty hole with the island. Jacob explains that the light, the "heart" of the island (seen in "Across the Sea"), needs to be protected from the Man in Black. He then tells them that one of them needs to choose to be the next guardian. Jack steps forward, stating that it was why he was brought there. Jacob's ghost then gives Jack a cup of water, and Jack takes the drink, accepting his responsibility. Jacob then tells Jack that he is "now like [him]."<p>Hmmm. That's an awful lotta stuff way fucking late in the game that could've fucking helped a couple a motherfuckers out a LOOOOOONG time ago, huh?<p>And that sure puts a fucking crimp in your "thats why he doesnt DIRECTLY interfere with the Losties during the series" theory. He sure the fuck directly interfered by telling 'em right then. <p>My question remains -- why didn't he tell them sooner?<p>Furthermore, jay, Jacob specifically touches each of the Losties, drawing them to the island. Sure sounds like "interference" and "manipulation" to me. Sounded like that to MIB as well as some of the Losties as well.<p>Where is Vader? Maybe he can explain this. Although, I doubt it.<p>The truth is... most of this shit got made up by Cuse, Lindelof and crew pretty late in the game. They thought it would cover some of the mysteries (special island, two skeletons, smoke monster, etc.), but the problem is that it created a shitload of common sense questions. Not the least of which, I continue to say, is why didn't Jacob tell everybody all the shit from "What They Died For" BEFORE THEY FUCKING DIED?!?!?!<p>All right, jay, maybe we can continue this shit civilly now. I hope so.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 4:57 p.m. CST

    A G

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Kevin Smith? Uh, no. I was actually channeling my neighbor. He's a Puerto Rican from Long Island who thinks he's black. And, yes, that's how he talks. But point taken. I'll try to refrain. ;-)

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Anaximandar: you are an idiot.

    by Executor

    And you exemplify why idiots like you hated Lost. Not to say that everyone who didn't like the ending is an idiot...some people don't like it for their own valid reasons. Fair enough. Not everything is everyone's cup of tea. <p>But if you are going to be so vehement about why people who like it are idiots, then don't be an idiot yourself. <p>You need everything spelled out? You can't accept that the light is important? You couldn't figure out by Michael's final appearance where he said he was a ghost trapped on the island that gee, maybe THAT'S why he's not in purgatory? You can't piece together that people can't really find the island because it jumps through space at random times and has strong electomagnetic properties (that cause storms and time displacements)? That the "sickness" isn't literal, that "being claimed" is just someone turning to evil? And that there are varying degrees of evil...some (like Sayid) with hope of redemption? <p>And using your brain in a logical manner to figure things out on your own without needing to be spoon fed does NOT lead to robot ninjas.<p>Unless you're a moron.<p>Thank you.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:04 p.m. CST

    D.Vader - colour me impressed

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    You worked as a PA on JON & KATE PLUS 8 and managed not to kill either of those selfish, fucked up worthless motherfuckers??<P> You have my unending props for managing not to have done that!!<P> Of course, the world would be a much better place if you HAD killed them both. Pointless, worthless motherfuckers, I pity those children...

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:08 p.m. CST

    Anaximandar

    by spud_mcspud_returns

    At least robot ninjas would have been interesting...

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:09 p.m. CST

    So LOST TBs still make it to the TOP 10...

    by wtriker1701

    ...how surprising, folks! ;-) <p> Once I told gotlik to bring up different DOCTOR WHO talkbacks back to life instead of breaking just the finale one up. I think that went well for the moment... <p> So think about it - whatever mood you're in - your feelings about LOST aren't done yet. <p> Start by picking up the LOST 1.1 TB (it's still open for psoting as the other ones) and feel free to discuss/love/hate/call names there. <p> Well, not exactly now, as this baby is still alive and well... but the day may come where this page loads verrrry slowly and you type and type and your letters appear minutes later in the box... <p> Try it out, when this TB begins to fail... <p> BTT: I still don't feel the need to revisit LOST. Not on DVD, not on rewatch. That part seems to be gone thanks to the last episodes of it. The "solution" and "answer" to all the problems and questions didn't have the power to get me wanting to reinvest my time with LOST. It's done, I loved 99% of it, I'm done with it. <br> Those were good times to search, discuss, explain, find out, re-examine, pointing out... but it's all faded away. <p> Whoever compares HEROES to LOST (or BSG) isn't that wrong. That trinity had brilliant starts and a (however different) good long run - but the end unjustified the means. <p> For HEROES and BSG - their stories are completely told. Nothing new there for us to catch (hence the prequels), but LOST... I could imagine a spin-off that centered around the island itself and its myseries... <p> But then I wake up and acknowledge, it's over! Bad, sad - but true! <p> For me!

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:09 p.m. CST

    It was a long con by Jacob.

    by Jayemel

    To kill the MiB. Why? Because he had been brainwashed by "mother" that the MiB was evil. <p> Season 5 was the fruition of the MiB's long con (the time travel was to create the Locke loophole). <p> Season 6 was the fruition of the Jacob long con (which being killed was part of). <p> Why couldn't he have sought people out and asked them to do it? He could have. That's the entire point. That's his (and the MiB's) character flaw. They see people as inherently bad, so they need to be manipulated. <p> These are the rules that are real: The MiB can't kill Jacob because they're both part of the light (Jacob drank the water, the MiB was thrown into it). No one can kill the MiB as long as the cork is plug in because he is part of the light. <p> Jacob "could" unplug the cork, but why would he? He saw what it did to the MiB, plus, like Jack realized, if he did unplug the cork, there would be no one left to protect it, which is what he lived his entire life for. Why would he do something that destroyed his life's work? <p> The whole thing is a commentary on and re-definition of faith. There's a lot of good in the show (the depth of characters, the metaphysical issues of self esteem, most of the philosophy, the creative science fiction plotting), however it ultimately fails philosophically. <p> There, rational, reasoned, and no personal attacks or "the island is a reality manipulation machine" stuff. The island isn't anything. The light aka energy was something. The ONLY ambiguous question left was if unplugging the cork would destroy the world, and that was intentional because protecting the cork was was a metaphor for faith and the light was a metaphor for God.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:19 p.m. CST

    MIB's Name was Samuel

    by lostboytexas

    proof = http://tinyurl.com/2u pjqaq

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:19 p.m. CST

    Anaximandar

    by Jayemel

    "1) What happens if the Island sinks? I.E. Why do we care about the glowy love-hole and its existence?" <p> That's the question you have to answer yourself. That's the metaphor of the series. Is God real or not? <p> "2) What are the rules of purgatory? How do you get there and why didn't Michael go there? Why are you lost there until woken up - that seems stupid when your already dead. What happens if Jack doesn't want to go thru the door with his spirit cluster? Can you die there? What happens if you don't wake up?" <p> It's a metaphor for self-reflection on your deathbed. The answer to your questions that the writers provide is that other people make life worth living, so if you loved in your life your soul will be able to rest. <p> "3) What powers does Jacob have and why didn't Jack get them right away? It looks like he can protect and heal people and conjure lighthouses out of thin air, but How did he figure that out?" <p> It's not that important and would only be speculation, but odds are Jack didn't get them yet as he was protector for five minutes and Jacob was for 2,000 years. <p> "4) What are the rules? Why wasn't Widmore allowed to kill Ben's Daughter?" Odds are that Ben and Widmore's rules were self imposed. <p> "5) What was the sickness or 'being claimed' all about? It didn't do any permanent damage to Sayid before he blew up - and he still made it to purgatory-land and beyond - but it drove Danielle's Science Team into a murderous ramrage? Seems like shoe-horned plot devices to me." <p> That was the whole point of the Desmond/Sayid scene in the well. You could rationally overcome being claimed by "evil" if you decided to. <p> "6) Why couldn't the Others have babies? You can 'fill in the blanks' that it was the Bomb and releasing the energy every 108 minutes - but you know where that gets us. Robot ninjas." <p> The bomb energy. No, it doesn't lead to robot ninjas. <p> "7) How did Eloise get into Desmond's Flash? Last I checked, Desmond got off the island and didn't go back to DHARMA, so how did Eloise know about him? Faraday's Book? What did he write in it about Desmond, except that he's a constant? Why the ambiguity with Eloise and Widmore?" <p> Faraday's Journal. However, this question is tough to answer because "Flashes Befor Yur Eyes" may have been Desmond's first purgatory experience. <p> "8) Why couldn't anybody find the island unless you were brought there? (was it Jacob? see question 3. Why the bearing to leave? Mother didn't seem to know about the other group of island exploiters that MiB went with, or even the ship that brough Jacob or MiB, so did she bring them? Why couldn't Desmond leave on the sailboat? Why was the island so hard to find?" <p> Penny found the island and was never brought there/went to the island. This question fails.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:20 p.m. CST

    watch my INCEPTION SPOOF at www.tinyurl.com/2a7v3q3!!!

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    also i still hate you lost

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:22 p.m. CST

    if DVADE worked for lost

    by yourSTEPDADDY

    it would be so much better, coherent, and actually still a fan favorite... they misseed out, because obviously he cares more about the story than they did (not a diss, ya know that right DVade)

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:23 p.m. CST

    lostboytexass

    by Jayemel

    If something isn't in the show, it's not canon. That's true of ANY show/movie/book.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:24 p.m. CST

    again Sharer...*SIGH*....Jacob's was DEAD...

    by jay2517

    when he started directly influencing them. his control and being the protector was gone understand?? MIB forced his hand by fucking KILLING Jacob. my "theory" is correct and im sure u will just stick ur fingers in ur ears and scream UH UH NOPE I DONT HEEEAR YOU!!! its ok u cant put the pieces together broheim...

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:28 p.m. CST

    Jayemel

    by lostboytexas

    is it also not canon if the actor who's character has no FUCKING NAME ON THE SHOW HAS A CHAIR THAT TELLS THE NAME????????? no

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:29 p.m. CST

    hey

    by lostboytexas

    remember that glowing cave? hahahah shite mate

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:31 p.m. CST

    also Sharer...

    by jay2517

    he HAD to bring people to the island to have a successor. u DID WATCH Across The Sea riiiight? the mother told him that lol. jacob, however, did not like being LIED and MANIPULATED by his "mother" to be the protector. so when he became protector he chose the FREE WILL approach to the candidates. he wanted the candidate to FREELY CHOOSE to be the protector...something he never had. LOL like i said its really not THAT hard to follow the show brotha...

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:33 p.m. CST

    sources, etc.

    by mrgray

    For those being dicks and calling me out on "imaginary" sources: http://tiny.cc/4zplp <p> http://tiny.cc/w0yxl <p> http://tiny.cc/tyeff <p> Overwhelmingly positive? No. Majority satisfied if not happy? Yes. So... you know... fuck off or whatever.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:33 p.m. CST

    Filling in the Blanks.

    by Anaximandar

    Executor, I don't care if everybody in the whole world loves the end of LOST or hates it. I don't like it and I can express why. The people who do like/love it are not idiots, except for you. Your an apologist and what you say is conjecture and your own rationalization.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 5:35 p.m. CST

    lostboytexass and jay2517

    by Jayemel

    lostboytexass: It's chair that was never shown in the show. It's not canon. /Endofdiscussion <p> jay2517: Jacob didn't respect their free will. No one had a choice about going to the island or not.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 6:07 p.m. CST

    Yes, but if Michael was bound to the Island as a ghost

    by cookylamoo

    Why wasn't Jack. They both died there?

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 6:23 p.m. CST

    Jayemel

    by Anaximandar

    "That's the question you have to answer yourself. That's the metaphor of the series. Is God real or not?" <p> So the central mystery of the show, the STAKES of the show, are something I need to figure out myself. Or are you saying the Island actually is God? <p> "It's a metaphor for self-reflection on your deathbed. The answer to your questions that the writers provide is that other people make life worth living, so if you loved in your life your soul will be able to rest. " <p> I get all that. That is not what I asked - but I like your read on it. We can interrupt this all we want, but the writers never provide a framework for how Purgatory operates in their story. Except in the sense that it operates exactly how it should so there could be a twist ending. <p> "It's not that important and would only be speculation, but odds are Jack didn't get them yet as he was protector for five minutes and Jacob was for 2,000 years. " <p> So, the central plot thread (MiB vs. Jacob) and the limits of these two individuals, is not important? Mother can mow down whole villages, and Jacob can invent technology that peers into the lives others (yet hates technology in his cabin) - and this all makes sense to you? Or it just doesn't have to make sense because it can be relegated to 'not important.' <p> "Odds are that Ben and Widmore's rules were self imposed. " <p> My point expressed succinctly. We can guess the rules are self-imposed, but it's a mystery show and we are probably wrong - so my guess is that Robot Ninja's made the rules, but since everyone knows Robot Ninja's are liars - it all works. <p> "That was the whole point of the Desmond/Sayid scene in the well. You could rationally overcome being claimed by "evil" if you decided to." <p> Yeah, that is how I read that scene as well - but how do you get claimed? Was Ben Claimed cuz he went to the Temple and lost his innocence? Was the Science Team - they did go into the Temple without Danielle. Does that mean Dogen was claimed too? Is being claimed just being evil or is it just apathy? I don't understand the rules to it because it is ambiguous. Is it ambiguous because it is organic to the story? Or is it ambiguous because the writer's didnt' know what to do with it? <p> "The bomb energy. No, it doesn't lead to robot ninjas." <p> Are we even sure the bomb went off? Underwater island is a lie, afterall. <p> "Faraday's Journal. However, this question is tough to answer because "Flashes Befor Yur Eyes" may have been Desmond's first purgatory experience. " <p> Yeah, its still all up in the air. <p> "Penny found the island and was never brought there/went to the island. This question fails." <p> I don't think it does - I think it reinforces it. My question was the rules about coming and going from the island. Does Jacob bring you there for MiB - or do you randomly stumble upon it. It's just all over the place. <p> I know I get hung up on "Rules", but that is what I believe creates a good vs. bad story. If you create a world, you create the rules and you are not allowed to violate your own rules. I can't get through Book 2 of the Dark Tower because I don't understand how the damn doorways work, either you pop into their mind - or you pop into their world. How they work make no sense and I stop reading.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 6:41 p.m. CST

    Anaximandar

    by Jayemel

    "So the central mystery of the show, the STAKES of the show, are something I need to figure out myself. Or are you saying the Island actually is God?" <p> Yes, exactly (to your first sentence). No, I don't think the cork needed to be plugged in, but I'm an athiest who is reason base. <p> "I get all that. That is not what I asked - but I like your read on it. We can interrupt this all we want, but the writers never provide a framework for how Purgatory operates in their story. Except in the sense that it operates exactly how it should so there could be a twist ending." <p> Evidence for my theory: Juliet's "it worked" at the beginning of the season and in The End. The final moment in the "church" from Jack's perspective as he died. The mirror moments. <p> "It's not that important and would only be speculation, but odds are Jack didn't get them yet as he was protector for five minutes and Jacob was for 2,000 years. " <p> "So, the central plot thread (MiB vs. Jacob) and the limits of these two individuals, is not important? Mother can mow down whole villages, and Jacob can invent technology that peers into the lives others (yet hates technology in his cabin) - and this all makes sense to you? Or it just doesn't have to make sense because it can be relegated to 'not important.'" <p> There are any number of reasonable explanations as to how the "mother" could have killed that village. The technology Jacob created is also the only tech he used and within the realms of harnessing the light. <p> "My point expressed succinctly. We can guess the rules are self-imposed, but it's a mystery show and we are probably wrong - so my guess is that Robot Ninja's made the rules, but since everyone knows Robot Ninja's are liars - it all works." <p> No, since there is no evidence the rules are imposed, the logical deduction is that they are self imposed. Likewise, there is no evidence for Robot Ninja. Your Robot Ninja argument is the same thing as the flying spaghetti monster argument. <p> "Yeah, that is how I read that scene as well - but how do you get claimed? Was Ben Claimed cuz he went to the Temple and lost his innocence? Was the Science Team - they did go into the Temple without Danielle. Does that mean Dogen was claimed too? Is being claimed just being evil or is it just apathy? I don't understand the rules to it because it is ambiguous. Is it ambiguous because it is organic to the story? Or is it ambiguous because the writer's didnt' know what to do with it?" <p> I think in the show evil is shown as being apathetic towards others. You can be claimed if you believe you're not a good person (as Sayid constantly did). There is no evidence that Dogen was claimed. Yes, Ben was claimed. The French team went under the temple. <p> "Are we even sure the bomb went off? Underwater island is a lie, afterall." <p> Yes, the flash of white light, Richard saying he saw them all die, and Sayid's line about the concrete poured in the Hatch in S2 point to the bomb going off. <p> "I don't think it does - I think it reinforces it. My question was the rules about coming and going from the island. Does Jacob bring you there for MiB - or do you randomly stumble upon it. It's just all over the place." <p> You can only come/go on a certain bearing. The island moves, so it's hard to find, but you can be summoned to it or stumble upon it.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 7:46 p.m. CST

    Thanks Bike Sharer

    by D.Vader

    Nice to know you too =). Sorry I can't be here to answer too many questions. Busy day/evening tonight.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 7:47 p.m. CST

    Spud McSpud

    by D.Vader

    Yeah I PA'd on John and Kate and also worked as a second camera man on that one. John was cool (before the divorce). Kate was a raging bitch on and off camera. To everyone, by the way. Her husband, her kids, waiters, the crew, fans, etc... Just completely unappreciative and impatient, unpleasant to be around and someone who always plays the victim card. Kids were great though. Except for Mady. She's going to grow up to be just like her mom.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 7:49 p.m. CST

    StepDaddy

    by D.Vader

    Yeah I know that's not a diss. Thanks for the compliment. You're still aces in my book too. <p> And I'll watch your Inception spoof after I see the movie this weekend. Remind me in future talkbacks to check it out.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 9:59 p.m. CST

    Red Ned

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    Awesome. Thanks for the kind words man ;-) And i hope you know what my name actually refers to. If you haven't seen the commercial yet, just wait... you'll know it when you see it lol

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:01 p.m. CST

    i'll have to get caught up on the talkback now...

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    it might take me a few minutes... but i'm curious as to how D.Vader responded to my initial post early this morning. To be continued...

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:08 p.m. CST

    lord Jaymel...

    by jay2517

    their free will ON the island. someone HAD to come to the island to replace Jacob whether Jacob liked that or not. thats how his "mother" set up her rules and Jacob made it worse by creating MIB. he made his job as protector (and the need to have a replacement) that much more important. yeeeesh brotha...

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:18 p.m. CST

    SHIT people...it WASNT purgatory and the island wasnt a LIE...

    by jay2517

    the "flash sideways" WAS NOT PURGATORY for the last fucking time. they created it. end of discussion. the island wasnt a lie because thats how they wanted their "flash sideways" to be...with the island on the ocean floor. why is that so hard to understand?? jack fucking created a SON to help him "move on". so how is the island being sunk NOW a LIE?? arrrgghhhhh ur whiners and bitchers are really making things WAY too compicated!! lordy mercy....

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:43 p.m. CST

    DarkUFO/SpoilerTV debunked MIB's name

    by paburrows

    http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/08/man-in-black-confirmed-as-samuel.html<br> <br>Update: 23:15 It appears that Samuel was NOT the Man in Blacks name and all of you who wanted it to be nameless can breath a sigh of relief. Here is the info I've just got from a highly placed source. <br> <br>The Man in Black was always referred to in the scripts as "Man in Black," and it was never revealed in the scripts -- not even the finale. Damon and Carlton had to cast an actor to play the role, and when preparing the casting breakdown, they knew they had to include a name. They knew fans got the casting breakdowns, so they couldn't call him "Man in Black" because that would be a big red flag for fans and would reveal too much too early. So the name "Samuel" was used since it was only for the casting breakdown. <br> <br>It’s unclear why production used "Samuel" as opposed to "Man in Black" for the chairback. Titus didn't know his character's name since he never was named, and he may have told someone in production the name used for the casting breakdown and sides. (The breakdown also listed him as a corporate raider, and that obviously isn't what his true job was.) But it was just a placeholder name and was never meant to his real name.<br> <br>Source: SpoilerTV

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 10:47 p.m. CST

    What the FUCK

    by BlaGyver

    is a LOST?

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:51 p.m. CST

    You can't have free will...

    by Jayemel

    ...after someone takes it away. "You can do what you want, but only if you stay in this room." That's called oppression, not free will.

  • Aug. 4, 2010, 11:58 p.m. CST

    lord ur being dense Jayemel...

    by jay2517

    they could leave any time they wanted. BEN was keeping them from leaving not Jacob. they even freaking left once lol. u DO remember season 4 and 5 right? lol damn....

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 1:46 a.m. CST

    Yeah Vader I agree with you about Kate

    by paburrows

    My wife watched that showand while Jon made some horrible chioces, its plainly evident when I watched with my wife just how hoorible Kate was/is. She just seems like all she cares about is making as much money off the kids as possible.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 1:55 a.m. CST

    Free Will

    by paburrows

    Actually the castaways never were made to come to the island, in fact many of them like Hurley Locke and others had to go through extreme measures to get on that plane (season 1 finale flashback). Granted they didn't know that the plane would warp to the island and then get sucked down because Desmond didn't push the button. <br> <br> Jacob did do things to influence their coming, but he never forced them to come. They were always able to choose. Even when Jack said that he wanted to be the new Jacob (fireside chat) Jacob asked him if he was sure. Which gave Jack an extra chance to ether stand up and declare his desire or change his mind. Jacob waited to convey information because of his desire to let the candidates have their free agency and I'm guessing because he may not have even known everything. "Mother" didn't really teach him a whole lot when he took the job so he had to figure it all out on his own.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 2:12 a.m. CST

    If someone with greater metaphysical powers

    by Jayemel

    ...is manipulating you, then you don't have free will. Free will is your mind being the ultimate say on your life. <p> paburrows, what you are attempting to describe is a trader relationship. If you work for a boss, he is not metaphysically more powerful than you. You choose to enter a relationship. You us your mind for him. He compensates you with money. I would agree with you if Jacob had spoken to each person, told them all the information, and treated them as equals. However, it was clearly shown how he used his powers to make major life decisions for them (see: The Incident). <p> This idea is part of the whole God discussion in the show. Believers try to say God can influence your life, have a plan, and you can still have free will. These ideas are contradictory. <p> So no, jay2517, I'm not being "dense." I just, you know, think about stuff and actually participate in debates rather than insulting people who oppose me.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 4:55 a.m. CST

    Kick-Ass Rocks

    by PTSDPete

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 6:06 a.m. CST

    CostCo!

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    That's crazy man... i had the same theory! I think i posted it in the Finale talkback. It is very similar to what CostCo was saying above, although with a few slight variations, and i go a little more in depth than he did. I think it really ties in a lot of the mythology or the show, and it really is the best way to explain all of the "contrivancies" and the seemingly convenient things that happened throughout the series... So here it is, my stream of consciousness ramblings from back in the day: <P> BELIEF is the KEY TO EVERYTHING. The island manifests and amplifies the POWER OF BELIEF in people on the island. (Similar to "Sphere" or "Solaris") Jacob's "Mother" BELIEVED that she was the chosen one to protect the island, even though she really wasn't. However, despite how delusional she was, the simple POWER OF BELIEF was so strong in her, that it manifested as actual powers and abilities... In fact, the MORE DELUSIONAL YOU ARE (Mother... John Locke, etc...), THE MORE THE ISLAND AMPLIFIES YOUR BELIEFS, MANIFESTING THEM AS POWERS, LITERALLY. <P> She then manipulated Jacob throughout his childhood, which enabled him with the same beliefs, as he didn't know any better... and her ritual to pass over Island Protector duties was completely arbitrary... hogwash/BS. But Jacob BELIEVED that was real. He had no reason to assume that she wasn't the island protector, based on her powers that he had witnessed himself, over time. His BELIEF that this ritual granted him powers is what actually, LITERALLY GAVE HIM HIS POWERS. Also, the rules of the game, and the spell that was cast upon them as newborns, about not being able to hurt each other, was also purely BELIEF. They learned from a young age, that they couldn't hurt each other, and they simply reinforced this throughout their lives. This is why Jack says that he doesn't "feel anything" different after being granted the title of Island Protector... Because its all BS, and he doesn't quite fully accept it, or believe it with every fiber of his being... He will come to realize this at the end. That there is NO REASON TO PROTECT THE ISLAND. It's all BS. It will only lead to more manipulation and corruption. <P> Adam and Eve... The Garden of Eden... The Forbidden Fruit... that is what the island is. Ultimate Power, that reflects Human Nature, exposing the truth about people... It needs to be stopped. It is simply a "litmus test" for humanity. To see if anyone will discover this true nature, and give up ultimate power to benefit the world... <P> This theory would explain the arbitrary nature of the "rules"... It would be satisfactory in explaining the convoluted, inconsistent nature of the "mother" and previous island protectors and the rituals, etc... The PERSON IN POWER, or BELIEVED TO BE IN POWER, would determine all these factors... it simply COMES FROM WITHIN. This island, or more specifically, THE SOURCE, AMPLIFIES HUMAN BELIEF. It was created by God, a Force, the Universe, etc... as a test for humanity. With this, comes the power to destroy reality as we know it. It can be used for GOOD OR EVIL. Or the 3rd option being... DESTROY IT. Someone comes along (like Jack...) and realizes the dangerous potential of this place... the ability to do evil, to abuse and manipulate... and realizes that the best option would be to END IT ALL. So there are no more TEMPTATIONS. <P> The MIRROR symbolism is validated here. A perfect microcosm of this theme of the entire show. The island, in a way, is like a MIRROR TO HUMANITY. It reflects human nature. Its like looking into a mirror. The mirror reflects you, as the island reflects your NATURE or INTENTIONS. <P> In this theory, there is NO MORE NEED FOR ANSWERS OR EXPLANATIONS. We don't have to see it CREATED, nor do we need to see previous Island Protectors to understand what the "rules" are, etc... <P> Lesson: where is the power source? Its not on the island... its located WITHIN YOU. THAT is the twist in the end... there is no "majic light cave" or "pocket of exotic matter" or "Electromagnetism"... its all INSIDE YOURSELF, each and everyone of us... <P> The more you believe, the more the island "listens" to you... that is how Locke became so powerful so quickly in season 1. His adamant BELIEF in himself and the island gave him wisdom and insight, power that was stronger than anybody else there... maybe with the exception of Walt, who with his child-like innocence, had a strong connection to the island as well... <P> Another cool aspect of this theory is that the Island, in this case, remains NEUTRAL. It is not biased one way or the other. It is not inherently GOOD or BAD. It simply REFLECTS THOSE PEOPLE THAT COME INTO CONTACT WITH IT. It exposes humanity. It doesn't want or desire anything... It doesn't have an AGENDA OR MOTIVE. It simply IS... <P> Whoever/whatever put it there to test humanity just wanted to see if humans were "worthy"... if used improperly, the world as we know it could end. It could also lead to great things, advancements if used properly. And finally, the best way for it to end, would be that somebody realizes the potential, sacrifices himself to save everyone on the planet, and losing out on ultimate power... GAME OVER.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 6:24 a.m. CST

    And again, regarding that theory i posted above...

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    That is clearly NOT what the showrunners went with. There was absolutely no confirmation whatsoever that that was the angle they were going for. I don't really see a better way that they could've tied up pretty much... EVERYTHING from the show with the simple idea that the island is, at its most fundemental level, a "Belief Amplifier" or whatever you want to call it... There are many other ways they could have gone, but i think i may like this one the best. Either way, the ending that they DID end up going with... was absolutely the cheapest, easiest, most spineless, cowardly, contrived, half-assed, vague (and not in a good way, like Twin Peaks...), cheesy, heavy-handed, bullshit ending possible. <P> What a shame...

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 8:01 a.m. CST

    Damon Lindelof IS THE WORLD'S BIGGEST CUNT.

    by JonChambers

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 8:07 a.m. CST

    NO HE ISN'T!

    by wtriker1701

    But right now we just have a perfect candidate...

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 8:24 a.m. CST

    Girl with Giant Forehead

    by D.Vader

    Which post are you referring to when you say "but i'm curious as to how D.Vader responded to my initial post early this morning. "?

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 8:52 a.m. CST

    Jayemel

    by lostboytexas

    his name was also Samuel in the script, which they didnt use. canon or not, his name was samuel. /end of discussion

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 9:27 a.m. CST

    what bugs me

    by SQUIDDLY

    Forget the afterlife and focus on what happens in reality. Sun and jin die their kid is and orphan. Kate will never see jack again. Sawyer doesnt have juliet will he go to see his kid? Clare raises aaron alone. Jacks ending was good but locke got royally fucked.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 9:35 a.m. CST

    LMAO, jay2517! So, it's about free will versus manipulation

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Unless the "free will-er" is DEAD. At which point he can influence them ... just like the manipulator! THAT is some priceless twisting, my friend!<p>But, even going with your theory (and it's a contorting little theory), Jacob died in "The Incident, Part 2," last episode of Season Five. According to your "dead theory" at that point, Jacob is free to tell anybody anything to influence/manipulate 'em. But he doesn't. Not for a big fat fucking sixteen episodes until he does so, eight days based on the wiki Timeline: Post-return. During that eight days, everyone ran around like morons, got manipulated by MIB masquerading as Locke, and Sun and Jin died.<p>So, I ask again, even with your theory (an ever-changing plot version of "Twister" with baby oil), Jacob doesn't influence/manipulate EVEN AS A DEAD PERSON for eight long days of death and mayhem! WHY NOT?!?!?!? Might've saved at least TWO lives that I can think of.<p>All that aside, dude, you really, really, really have to realize that these are some stunning contortions that you're having to do to justify, basically, the Lost writers didn't think about any of this. Or, if they did, they just didn't care.<p>Jacob remains mute PURELY for the benefit of the writers in order to maintain the mystery and suspense until "What They Died For." I mean, it's that simple, dude. It's okay to like the show and the last season and the finale, but these theoretical pretzels that you build ("it's about free will versus manipulation... UNLESS the free will guy is DEAD in which case he, too, gets to influence and manipulate?!?!?!?") are just logically silly.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 9:44 a.m. CST

    Wait a minute! Fuck me again!

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Under jay2517's "dead can influence/manipulate" theory of poor writing, Jacob is free to do so after death ("Jacob's was DEAD... when he started directly influencing them. his control and being the protector was gone understand??"), Jacob told 'em what's up in "What They Died For" and allowed each of them to decide who'd be his replacement (Jack), right? But about the time of "Lighthouse" and "Sundown," Jacob (who is DEAD and can influence/manipulate at this point) doesn't warn or help ANY of the people in the Temple?!?!?! AT ALL!!!!<p>By the way, THAT (informing the Losties before THEY decide who'll replace him) is what's called "FREE WILL" and "CHOICE" when the decision that you're making is INFORMED, not created in a vacuum - <p>"Choose the left door or the right door."<p>"But what do they do?"<p>"Just choose, I cannot guide you."<p>"Um, well, you guided me first by giving me the choice and now you won't inform me what my choice means?"<p>"Choose!"<p>"Uh, well, uh, okay, the left door."<p>"Haha, your family is all dead! Free will!"<p>"WTF?!?! Are you kidding me?"<p>L O S T

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 9:49 a.m. CST

    "Lighthouse"

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    [Jacob] also explains [to Hurley] that he had to get [Jack and Hurley] away from the Temple, because someone bad is about to arrive there. Hurley wants to warn the people at the temple but Jacob restrains him by explaining that it is already too late."<p>BUT IT WASN'T TOO LATE WHEN WE WERE BACK THERE AND COULD'VE FUCKING TOLD 'EM TO ABANDON SHIP, MOTHERFUCKER!!!!<p>Haha! I cannot manipulate you! FREE WILL!<p>But, dude, you manipulated me and Jack the fuck outta there. Why couldn't we have manipulated the rest of 'em?<p>L O S T

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 9:55 a.m. CST

    "The Rules"

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    1. Jacob and MIB are immortal.<p>2. They cannot kill each other.<p>3. Someone else CAN be manipulated into killing them.<p>4. If Jacob, the island's protector, is killed he must find a replacement protector within a certain amount of time.<p>5. Once Jacob is dead, he is free to "influence" and "manipulate" others in order to attain his goal of finding an island protector.<p.6. Jacob, however, may not do so ("influence" or "manipulate") when it is inconvenient to the purpose of the writers in maintaining the mystery and suspense of the island, even when his "influence" and "manipulation" would have made sense FAR earlier and would have saved more lives.<p>7. All Lost Season 6 defenders are free to make up their own rules, twist and abandon them ad nauseum in order to justify the internal inconsistencies and logical flaws in the show.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 9:59 a.m. CST

    "The Rules" (continued)

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    6. Dead Jacob may not do so ("influence" and "manipulate" other characters) when it is inconvenient to the purposes of the show's writers and producers in maintaining the island's mystery and suspense, even when doing so would make logical sense and isn't precluded by any of the other Rules.<p>7. All Lost Season 6 defenders are obligated to modify, add to, delete, or twist any of the above Rules, in order to justify any and all failures of simple logic on...<p>L O S T

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 10:24 a.m. CST

    It Worked...

    by Anaximandar

    When Juliete said 'It worked' as a last thought to Miles - she was reliving her purgatory encounter with Sawyer by the vending machine. We know this because of the 'going dutch' line. When Miles tells Sawyer that Juliet's final thoughts were 'It worked' - its because she says 'It worked' when she fixes the vending machine. It had nothing to do with metaphysical purgatory creation. I don't mind mind when writers give you lame answers (or not interesting answers) to questions - but with the end of LOST - every answer was lame. Actually, the 'It Worked' line was written (by design) into the plot to make you think the bomb fractured reality into two - but the truth is that it was a lot lamer than that. Actually, the purpose of the entire Time Travel season, was to make you think they fractured reality. Every plot element in the last two seasons was delivered to you with the sole purpose of setting up a scenario they were going to negate in the last 10 minutes. <p> Now look back and tell me the point of the character Miles. He talks to dead people. Why even introduce this character with this ridiculous superpower? Is it just to make Hurley look less ridiculous? Miles does absolutely nothing that warrants his inclusion in the storyline and actually cheapens it quite a bit with the ghostbuster shenanigans. What else does he actually do with his ability - he rats out Ben and he helps Sawyer.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 10:38 a.m. CST

    The Twist

    by Anaximandar

    I think there is the right way to do a twist:<br> Cleverly hide the supporting evidence in the story for the Twist, so that on repeat viewing, it all clicks together. <p> And the bad way:<br> Provide heaping mounds of evidence for the WRONG ending, then pull a fast one at the 11th hour with an unsupported gamechanger. <p> Lets look at the Finale of Season 3. They make it look like a flashback by playing on established conventions put forth by the show's paradigm. But all evidence and clues (telephone model, song on the radio, "Hoffs Drawler") point to it being a flash forward. When the twist is revealed, we go 'Ohhh! That fits!'. <p> No we have the last two seasons. All evidence points to fractured realities. We have an underwater island, Faraday tells us (the viewers) that is the grand plan and the characters buy into it, Jack believes it is his destiny to erase it all and start over, Juliet says 'It worked', the sideways world (pre-reveal) starts with the airplane but with changes that all make sense if the island was never there. What evidence is there to support it being purgatory? Nothing. The Long Con of the last two seasons was a narrative joke to trick you so they could sell a twist, but it was done the bad way.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 12:01 p.m. CST

    Anaximandar

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Agreed on that. Sloppy writing by the writers in a vain attempt to "trick" the audience. Handled VERY poorly. Bottom line of the entire last season (and most of everything starting with the inclusion of Jacob and MIB).

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 12:17 p.m. CST

    Sharer/Jayemel- there u go AGAIN ...

    by jay2517

    with ur YEA BUT/BUT WHY??? idiot logic lol. what ur doing can be done with any show (esp. a sci-fi/metaphysical one). u two hate the show because the show didnt give the answers YOU wanted them to give you. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. the answers are there u two just refuse to comprehend them and then use ur YEA BUT/BUT WHY??? idiot arguments. u and Jayemel are fucking priceless...

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 1:09 p.m. CST

    The twist in the end of season 6 does fit

    by Qwerty834

    Why people keep thinking season 5 is worthless is amazing. When you rewatch season 6 and you see how everything is for them in the FS you can tell its not real. You find me a job where i get to bang sluts as a cop as my buddy cop is watching from the closet to arrest HER not me. Everything that happened seasons 1 - 5 happened. When juliet blew up the bomb it sent them back to present time. That served purpose why do you morons keep saying it doesnt matter. Yeah they pulled a fast one technically but its the same as they did with season 3 finale which i also loved. And why do people want to know what happened to the crew on the plane after Jack saved the island? DO WE REALLY HAVE TO SEE KATE ARRESTED AGAIN?!?!!?

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 1:14 p.m. CST

    Plus not to mention

    by Qwerty834

    The whole thing about the show was for them to realize Whatever Happened....HAPPENED. We have been spoonfed that line since the first season and part of season 5 was Jack trying to figure out his destiny. he had no idea what it was so he looked for the answer and Faraday thought he had it. But Jack didnt have the answer he wanted WHAT jack actually got was the start of his journey. Jack tossing that bomb down the pocket is what caused the Hatch to have to be built, which then caused the button to have to be pushed, which caused dez to have to push it, which when dez didnt push it caused the plane crash that started Jacks Destiny. SUCK IT all of you and pay attention

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Why is it that the "Acceptors"

    by cookylamoo

    Reject (and with vitrol) every argument made by the "We want Answers" posters Why can't you accept us the way you accept Lindehof?

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Wanna know about baby problems

    by Qwerty834

    Its crazy that the last baby born on the island was ethan and then BOOM Juliet hits the bomb and since then baby problems...Juliet is who they called upon to fix the problem....she caused the problem?!?! *SWISH*

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Its because out of the people who scream I HATE THE FINALE!!

    by Qwerty834

    Only 5% of them actually hate it for a legit reason. Some people wanted the island to be an alien spaceship....god bless them i agree you can be upset. But the people who are like I GETZ ANZORS NONWZ! All the answers are there you just have to use common sense.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Jacob was not all powerfull

    by Qwerty834

    The other missed point. Jacob was an asshole but the one thing they kept pounding into our head was that all of these characters, before the island, had suck ass lives. They were depressed and lost (o yeah i did it). So even tho Jacob brought them all to this lunatic island he technically helped them all. And in the end we saw how he accomplished this. The other key to Lost is that every character on the show was Lost. Nobody on that island knew what the light was, in fact nobody we have seen in the entire show knew what the light was. Jack had no clue why pulling that rock out of the ground was going to kill everyone, but he knew his destiny was to put it back and he couldn't have been happier to do it, because there was nothing left he wanted, or for him to go back "HOME" to. And in the end no one died alone, not even jack as vincent was by his side. The island is the case from Pulp Fiction, we never find out what it is, but without it we miss out on a great story told.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 2:31 p.m. CST

    hey look above!!! common sense!!!!

    by jay2517

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 3 p.m. CST

    That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_

    by Jayemel

    I enjoy your theory and think there is plenty of evidence for it. However, the ultimate point of the show was about the value of other people and not the individual, which is the most basic evidence against your (awesome) idea. <P> I think a lot of what you say is in the show though. The problem the writers made in The End was inserting the idea that you could be good once someone said "I believe in you, dude," but not before.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Hey, common sense.

    by Jayemel

    The idea that Jacob was a good guy and didn't manipulate people is just dumb...even within the constraints of the show. If Jacob was so good, why did the writers have Hurley and Ben decide to run things differently than Jacob, to make different rules? Because they point was to re-define faith in a way that they (the writers) saw as more consistent with reality. <p> Also, I enjoy that I get grouped in with either side depending on who is talking to me. For the record, I love LOST and understand it, there are just some philosophical inconsistencies with the ideas put forward by the show.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 3:07 p.m. CST

    Sayid

    by Qwerty834

    What made Sayid good was that he sacrificed himself for his friends in the real world. He put others before himself. He paid for his sins instead of dying with them alone. Not because Hurley told him in the FS. Hurley telling him in the FS was basically Hurley saying Hi and Goodbye to his friend Sayid. Hi because he might not have seen him since his death and Bye because the crazy FS Sayid was leaving and the one who he was friends with was coming back.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Qwerty834

    by Jayemel

    I agree with most of what you said (in your latest post), except for two things: <p> 1. The quality of your life (good or bad) does not give another human being the sanction to interfere in it. <p> 2. Jack did die alone (not counting the whateveratory). An animal is not an equal to, or replacement for, humans.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 3:12 p.m. CST

    What made Sayid good was...

    by Jayemel

    ...Desmond's question of what would Nadia think? It wasn't until he started caring what others thought about again that he became good. This was paralleled in the whateveratory by him not believing he was a good person until Hurley said, "I believe in you, dude." <p> This is also why his last act was self sacrifice. In an others-focused worldview, the lives of other people are more important than your own.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 3:15 p.m. CST

    philosophical inconsistencies

    by Qwerty834

    yes there were in the show, but again none of the characters knew what was going on. Every character tried to be all knowing and powerfull but they always turned up just being the guy behind the curtain. Jacob had no clue what he was doing, just like Jack and prob just like Hurley. Hurley right now knows he has an Island that helps heal people and maybe he will make a happy place for people who need it.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 3:18 p.m. CST

    jayemel

    by Qwerty834

    No Jacob did not have authority to change the direction in a persons life. He even admits it and when he tells the crew how "You were all flawed" not one character stood up saying BS! because it was true as we have seen from the countless flashbacks and flashforwards we saw. And as for the alone thing i understand many may not feel the same way i do about vincent joining Jack i will not argue against it. But for me that was one of the best moments of the entire show

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 3:22 p.m. CST

    yea vincent and jack was great...

    by jay2517

    just shows Jayemel mentality towards life. sad really...

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Qwerty834 and jay2517

    by Jayemel

    @Qwerty834: Jacob did have the authority and used it. (See: Touching in The Incident.) <p> @jay2517: I enjoyed the finale moments because of the parallelism to the opening moments and the tragedy of Jack's unnecessary death due to errors by Jacob, the MiB, and "their mother." I don't, however, believe animals are equal to humans, and that does not make my life "sad."

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 8:40 p.m. CST

    jayemel re: vincent and jack

    by mrgray

    Okay, we get it, you don't equate Vincent with a person and therefore feel that Jack died alone. HOWEVER, you have to at least acknowledge that the vast majority of viewers, the cast, and the showrunners/writers equated Vincent with a person and felt he was as important as any other cast member. If he wasn't, why would anyone give a shit about him appearing in the finale? And 99.99% of everyone cared about him being there. So fine, have your view, just recognize and admit you're in a minority of 1. Unless someone else wants to jump in on the "beloved pets can't be considered companions" argument?

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 9:01 p.m. CST

    bike sharer re: rules

    by mrgray

    8. All Lost Season 6 attackers are obligated to make assumptions about, add to, delete, or twist any episode in order to justify any and all critiques of... <p>Argue until you're blue in the face, the negatives you find (or make up) didn't detract from the positives for those of us who enjoyed it. It's not flawless, nor would I claim it to be, but.. well.. shut up.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 9:10 p.m. CST

    ahhh MORE common sense....

    by jay2517

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 9:53 p.m. CST

    D.Vader

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    "Which post are you referring to when you say "but i'm curious as to how D.Vader responded to my initial post early this morning?" <P> You already responded man, its all good :-)

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 9:58 p.m. CST

    The Bicycle Sharer...

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    Your posts this morning about "the rules", were truly fucking EPIC. Bravo man, bravo... You put it all together in one concise sentence, pointing out the biggest failing on the part of the showrunners, and the mental gymnastics the apologists go through to defend their beloved show: <P> "7. All Lost Season 6 defenders are obligated to modify, add to, delete, or twist any of the above Rules, in order to justify any and all failures of simple logic on..." <P> Fucking AWESOME.

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 10:24 p.m. CST

    Didn't i tell you all?

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    Remember when i posted earlier about how the Lost debate is eerily similar to that of the science vs. religion debate? The 7th rule listed by The Bicycle Sharer, is EXACTLY what christians do when defending their religion. Now, i don't necessarily want to turn this into a religious debate, but i thought it was a good time to bring this up to further illustrate my point from before. <P> Lost (season 6 and Finale) defenders, like christians (and other religious folk), use impressive mental gymnastics and anti-logic to rationalize or defend their sacred beliefs. I don't think that this attitude is beneficial in any way. In religious terms, this frame of mind is harmful in many obvious ways... but in terms of art (Television, in theis case) is more subtle, and obviously less "dangerous", but it is still harmful, artistically speaking. To TRULY appreciate quality art (like Lost season 1 for instance), you have to use all of your mental faculties to analyze it, judge it, critique it... You have to be completely objective, rational, using logic, and eliminate any bias. You cannot use illogical rationalizations or mental gymnastics to "trick" yourself into liking something. That is EXACTLY what the defenders of the end of lost are doing. If they are using these crazy mental maneuvers in order to "appreciate" season 6, then how could they possibly, truly appreciate season 1? Well, they simply CANNOT. <P> Almost all of the people who defend season 6, like the series of lost, more or less equally across all of the seasons. Thus, you have an artificially elevated (and unfounded) love and respect for the latter season, while conversely, you have a dilluted love and respect for season 1. It's fucking PHYSICS people! lol Those who really love season 6, cannot rationally enjoy season 1 for what it truly is. Just like christians cannot truly appreciate true knowledge, scientific fact, or real "free will"...

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 10:57 p.m. CST

    wow ur a fucking idiot...

    by jay2517

    u have no comprehension about christians or "religious folk". keep telling urself that u do though if that makes u think ur "smarter". no wonder u cant comprehend a simple exercise into the "religious" part of shows like Lost. bet u REALLY LOVE Supernatural huh idiot boy?? *sigh* anyway....

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 11 p.m. CST

    Jayemel

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    I'm glad you enjoyed my theory about the island as a "Belief Amplifier", but again, i don't think that the showrunners went that route. In other words, it is not my theory on what the island is, based on the show's conclusion... Rather, it is my idea on what SHOULD have been the answer to the show. I think it clearly would have been the best option to go with, considering all of the contrivancies and convenient happenings... It could really explain all these seemingly inconsistent things. It's really kind of poignant in a way. But unfortunately, it appears that some of us fans have actually put more thought into the show than Lindelof and Cuse did. They took the easy way out. And that is precisely why i cannot respect them any more as "artists".

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 11:04 p.m. CST

    let me guess...ur a atheist or agnostic right??

    by jay2517

    so (in ur view of religion or christianity) ur just replacing YOUR ignorance and unacceptability and comparing it to religion hmmmm? wow...typical...

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 11:08 p.m. CST

    lol @ jay

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    you're quite a character, you know that? I'm guessing you're about 12 to 14 years old, so i'm gonna go easy on ya ;-) Ironically, i have a FAR GREATER comprehension of religious people than most. With a psychological background (among other things...), i probably have a greater understanding of them than even they, THEMSELVES do... lol Trust me boy, i don't "think" i'm smarter than them, i KNOW i am. It's not even debatable. And your other statement is even more idiotic than your previous one, as i have never seen a single episode of Supernatural... got it, "idiot boy"? lol I appreciate QUALITY shows like early Lost, you know, things that you have no comprehension of... If you were asked to explain your feelings about why a show worked or didn't... to provide any form of analysis or objective critique, you would have absolutely no way of expressing that. YOU, my friend, are a SIMPLETON, as clearly demonstrated by your psychotic ramblings posing as "posts". So shut the fuck up child, and let the adults speak, cool?

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 11:13 p.m. CST

    See jay...

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    That's the difference between you and I. The difference between people like me (those who defend their position using objectivy and rational thought), and people like you that simply resort to childish tantrums and name calling. Unfortunately for you, it seems that the defenders are the ones exhibiting this trollish type of behavior. The "haters" have been the calm, logical, well spoken folk around here. Think about it for a minute...

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 11:21 p.m. CST

    Yes jay, i would consider myslef "athiest" or "agnostic"...

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    The only TRUE, intellectually honest way any human could be. Lol... you say it as if it's a bad thing. I'm a FREE-THINKER. As in, i form MY OWN OPINION. I reject things that are illogical and internally inconsistent (like the bible). As most intelligent people do, i base my beliefs on logic and reason, not superstition or intuition. My beliefs are based upon experience and knowledge. I don't exclude scientific findings that conflict with my ignorant beliefs, as many religious people do. I am pragmatic, objective... a truth seeker. You, as many other religious people, seek "comfort", not TRUTH. That is a fundemental psychological flaw, and a symptom of something deeper, and much more harmful. <P> So do you still want to argue this, dipshit? Or do you want me to continue to "enlighten" you?...

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 11:29 p.m. CST

    Jay continued...

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    Jay said: "so (in ur view of religion or christianity) ur just replacing YOUR ignorance and unacceptability and comparing it to religion hmmmm? wow...typical..." <P> LMAO "unacceptability"? WTF?! And that's funny that you use the word "ignorant". Yes, because deep examination of reality, including the history and genesis of religion, and gaining a deep understanding of things like: psychology, sociology, astronomy, physics, chemistry, biology... as i have done, have led me to become IGNORANT. LMAO Actually, idiot, "ignorance" would reflect the average religious person who does not attempt to deepen or broaden their understanding of those things i listed above. They jump on the bandwagon of the first religion exposed to them and they become intellectually lazy afterwards, and their growth as a human being is stunted. They believe they "know it all" now, as there is nothing left to learn or explore. They fucking wallow in their own ignorance... and you're going to accuse ME of being ignorant? Niggah please... lol

  • Aug. 5, 2010, 11:32 p.m. CST

    No reply from jay yet... hhhhhmmmmmm...

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    Jay, honestly, for your OWN sake... i really hope you read and COMPREHEND what i wrote. Don't get all "pee-pee hurt" by it, and rather, take it as advice to further your growth as a functional human being. I truly want the best for you, and everyone else :-) I know it doesn't seem like it, but i do lol

  • Aug. 6, 2010, 10:04 a.m. CST

    Lost Fan

    by hst666

    I'm soory, but an ending should not be out of left field and the ending we got was. I don't mind unanswered questions (although when the whole premise of your show involves a mystery, it's usually good to provide some explanation). Also, it renders all the off island stuff in the final season completely pointless.

  • Aug. 6, 2010, 10:20 a.m. CST

    BSG finale >> Lost finale

    by hst666

    And the BSG finale was shitty.

  • Aug. 6, 2010, 10:22 a.m. CST

    Spud excellent comparison with Fight Club

    by hst666

    The people defending the finale would be walking around naked in the Emperor has no clothes.

  • Aug. 6, 2010, 10:28 a.m. CST

    Qwerty

    by hst666

    Most hate it because the finale was not organic to the story and a general lack of answers to the important questions.

  • Aug. 6, 2010, 11:06 a.m. CST

    "So Mr, Marlowe, what was the Maltese Falcon, Anyway?"

    by cookylamoo

    I guess we'll never know. And it's better that way, because now we have a bit of mystery in our tragic, pathetic lives.

  • Aug. 6, 2010, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Okay cool, That Girl!

    by D.Vader

    Color me confused =).

  • Aug. 6, 2010, 12:59 p.m. CST

    wow Forehead lol WOW...

    by jay2517

    u just proved my point with ur ultra "intelligent" posts. ur just the typical militant agnostic/atheist. fuckers like u just project the same horrible fallacies u rail against. keep on keepin on with the hypocrisy broheim LOL...

  • Aug. 6, 2010, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Forehead re: 1st and 6th season

    by mrgray

    I know this is going to blow your mind, but I love them both. <p> POOM <p>Look, I accept that the progression from Season 1 doesn't logically lead to Season 6, but they are both quality storytelling seasons in their own right. The problem that I have with the "haters" is this odd blindness to the possibility that EVEN given the faults of Season 6, it's possible to truly enjoy it. You people act like it's all or nothing when nothing could be further from the truth. As anyone who's been around here a while could tell you, I have HUGE problems with The Dark Knight, but I still enjoy it. Furthermore, you act like it's somehow offensive to claim to enjoy the 6th season and the finale. Get over yourself and your bizarrely self-righteous indignation. <p> And while Jay isn't doing himself any favors by posting in text message speak, your attitude of smug superiority is really fucking annoying. Fuck off to a Harvard college bar if you're gonna be a douche like that. Howdja like them apples?

  • Aug. 6, 2010, 3:26 p.m. CST

    "lost 6 years of my life"

    by fat_rancor_keeper

    lol, I doubt people are serious when they say this. At least I hope for their sake they aren't serious.

  • Aug. 6, 2010, 4:17 p.m. CST

    lol thats just the way i type on here mr gray...

    by jay2517

    i type in stream of thought. its a little quicker for me. sorry if it offends certain pple (HA!). and I DO like those apples brotha...

  • Aug. 6, 2010, 5:54 p.m. CST

    Let me be clear

    by hst666

    My problem is with the finale. Individual episodes during the 6th season are great. The fact that the finale sucked worse than BSG's does not take that away.

  • Aug. 6, 2010, 8:27 p.m. CST

    jay: not offensive, buuuuut

    by mrgray

    It does make your arguments *sound* less sturdy.

  • Aug. 6, 2010, 9:04 p.m. CST

    lol gray no taken buuut..

    by jay2517

    it doesnt make them any less correct broheim...

  • Aug. 7, 2010, 7:19 p.m. CST

    Mr gray and hst...

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    Maybe i didn't make myself clear before about season 6. Sure, there are great individual moments and episodes (LAX, Ab Aeterno, Happily Ever After, and What they died for), but the season, as a WHOLE was awful. You cannot honestly say that Season 6 and Season 1 were on equal footing, from a storytelling/film-making perspective. If you do... you need a new fucking hobby lol. The CONS of season 6 and the finale, FAR outweigh the PROS. That's not debatable. But yeah, i did enjoy some select few moments and even a couple of entire episodes from season 6. So yes, i am obviously more objective than you are...

  • Aug. 7, 2010, 7:20 p.m. CST

    "Haters"

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    Yeah, i love how the term "hater" keeps getting thrown around. Yet, we know EVERY FUCKING DETAIL about the show! Hhhhmmmm, that's weird... I wonder why that is? Well, folks like RPlocke, if they actually THOUGHT about it for a fucking second without getting all hyper-defensive and shit, would probably realize that all these so called "haters" were once HUGE FANS of the show! In fact, they were probably BIGGER fans than the manic and simple minded apologists. We loved the show for the RIGHT reasons. That's why we respect early lost so much (mainly season 1, but through the season 3 finale, the series' final highpoint...) However, due to our LOVE and ADMIRATION for the show, as it started to run off the tracks a bit, we stuck with it. We wanted to give the showrunners the BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT... so we kept fucking watching. We watched it all the way through the end, as any respectable fan SHOULD have done. And when it was over, the smart, caring, rational-minded fans simply HAD to come to the terrible conclusion that Lost COMPLETELY FUCKING DERAILED. There is no possible way for a true fan of ART, with any artistic integrity to come away feeling any different. If you love and respect quality art, and you are intellectually honest with yourself, you have no other option than to absolutely HATE what the once brilliant LOST had become. Not only SHOULD you "hate" it... you should freely express yourself as such. Lindelof and Cuse MUST be held accountable for their actions. In this case, destroying a once phenomenal show... Likewise, any sane, reasonable person with any sort of artistic integrity would also despise other EPIC FAILURES such as: The Star Wars Prequels, the Matrix Sequels, Terminator 3, Alien Resurrection, Spiderman 3, X-Men 3, etc... (All of these films, like Lost, suffer from the exact same film-making/storytelling problems, which we can get into if anyone isn't clear about them...) If you don't absolutely LOATHE these films than i cannot respect your "opinions" on art, or honestly, respect you as a human being. It's that simple. We so called "haters" do, in fact, posess more "hate" than you... Additionally, we also have more LOVE than you as well. Our admiration and respect for truly great works of art are more REAL and GENUINE than you will ever know. Conversely, our HATE and DISRESPECT for such atrocities will be greater than yours too. It all comes down to PASSION. We have MORE PASSION than you do, at least in terms of art. So you go "enjoy" everything you watch or do, and not "hate" on anything, and enjoy your miserable little ZOMBIE-LIKE existence. I, for one, LOVE to be passionate. Love, HATE, and all that comes with it :-) Yeah, but anyway, we're just "haters"... We got nothing better to do than "hate" on shit. 'Cause we just LOVE to be angry. Yup, THAT'S it. Let me go satisfy my hateful urge and go pop in season 1 of lost on DVD, and love EVERY FUCKING SINGLE FRAME of it. I'll laugh, cry, be fully engaged, and filled with wonder and awe while i watch that brilliant first season. Yup, TOTAL HATER right here... So to all you APOLOGISTS, and to those that throw around the word "hater" every chance they get, i ask you to really consider all these points i just made. Really COMPREHEND this shit, as it may just cause you to pull your HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS, and understand where we are coming from... And maybe, eventually, you will be lucky enough to become "enlightened" just like the rest of us.

  • Aug. 7, 2010, 7:26 p.m. CST

    Jay, you just can't stop making me laugh :-)

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    Jay: "u just proved my point with ur ultra "intelligent" posts. ur just the typical militant agnostic/atheist. fuckers like u just project the same horrible fallacies u rail against. keep on keepin on with the hypocrisy broheim LOL..." <P> Jay, i just stumbled upon a movie the other night that i think you should check out: "Religulous" by Bill Maher. It's a very good, albeit "simple" take, on the whole religious debate. You should not only laugh your ASS off, but gain a deeper respect for ASKING QUESTIONS, having DOUBT, being CYNICAL, and best of all, having HUMILITY. The final epilogue, where Maher gets to the point and states his case bluntly and succinctly, is truly fucking brilliant. <P> Check it out man.

  • Aug. 7, 2010, 7:28 p.m. CST

    Funny...

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    This religious tangent we got on here in this talkback fits in well with my previous post about PASSION in art. I'm also clearly passionate about other things in life too, like philosophy, science, nature, and humanity... Good stuff, but probably a little too "deep" for an AICN talkback lol

  • Aug. 7, 2010, 7:33 p.m. CST

    And jay, again to be clear...

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    There is nothing at all REMOTELY "fallacious" about my arguments lol. Do you even know what that word means? And if i'm anything at all, it certainly ain't a HYPOCRITE. That's just laughable. If you actually fucking LISTEN to what i'm saying, you cannot possibly accuse me of being hypocritical. That's just absolutely absurd... I'm not claiming to know all the answers about the universe, God, Existence, like the self-professed "enlightened" religious people do... I ain't self-righteous like that bro. I am a MAN OF SCIENCE. Call me condescending, call me an A-hole, but a HYPOCRITE? LMAO Please, do explain...

  • Aug. 8, 2010, 1:53 p.m. CST

    and Forehead, again to be clear...

    by jay2517

    u are a fucking militant, hypocritical idiot...

  • Aug. 9, 2010, 2:36 a.m. CST

    LMAO @ jay...

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    Wow, nice "retort", you fucking idiot lol. I'm a "fucking militant, hypocritical idiot"? Isn't that the same nonsensical shit you spewed last time? But once again you have failed to back it up... with ANYTHING. How about next time you say something like that, you actually BACK IT UP, like i do... Nice try, dipshit. But thanks again for proving my point about you :-)

  • Aug. 9, 2010, 2:37 a.m. CST

    Also...

    by That_Girl_From_The_Lowes_Commercials_GARGANTUAN_FOREHEAD

    Maybe try reading my post titled "Haters", and your pea-sized fucking brain may actually learn something...

  • Aug. 23, 2010, 10:51 a.m. CST

    math

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