+ Expand All

Readers Talkback

• Jul 28, 2010 9:30:17 PM CDT

  Funny. I posted something earlier today

  by big jim

  and it's gone from here but it has shown up on the Survivor TB. This site is haunted!

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content and it's gone from here but it has shown up on the Survivor TB. <p>This site is haunted!

• Jul 28, 2010 11:02:04 PM CDT

  VB bait and switch

  by scratcher

  If you put Venture Bros. in the headline, there should be more than just one line without even a picture.

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content If you put Venture Bros. in the headline, there should be more than just one line without even a picture.

• Jul 28, 2010 11:15:56 PM CDT

  appearantly Herc liked BSG

  by wickedjacob

  I had no idea.

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content I had no idea.

• Jul 29, 2010 4:20:09 AM CDT

  Always looks like Apollo looking down the front of Tricia Helfer

  by nzguy

  on that Battlestar Galactica Season 3 cover.

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content on that Battlestar Galactica Season 3 cover.

• Jul 29, 2010 7:04:28 AM CDT

  The Bionic Bitch is back - Oy Vey!!!!

  by jonchambers

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content

• Jul 29, 2010 7:06:32 AM CDT

  I always knew Adama wanted to fuck that cyclon bitch!!

  by jonchambers

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content

• Jul 29, 2010 7:26:57 AM CDT

  @BigJim - No, what happened was...

  by v'shael

  This story was originally posted on node 45924But then, when the ABC story came in, about whats-his-face being fired, Herc overwrote this essentially Amazon sponsered story with the ABC one. Whoops. So the first dozen or so talkback entries on THAT story no longer make sense.Rather than screw up that situation, but still desperate to put the money-gathering Amazon links into a story, he's reposted it on node 45939 And then overwrote that with the Survivor story.And now third times' the charm. Node 45948.Will this get overwritten again? Who knows?

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content This story was originally posted on node 45924<br /><br />But then, when the ABC story came in, about whats-his-face being fired, Herc overwrote this essentially Amazon sponsered story with the ABC one. Whoops. So the first dozen or so talkback entries on THAT story no longer make sense.<br /><br />Rather than screw up that situation, but still desperate to put the money-gathering Amazon links into a story, he's reposted it on node 45939 <br /><br />And then overwrote that with the Survivor story.<br /><br />And now third times' the charm. Node 45948.<br /><br />Will this get overwritten again? Who knows?

• Jul 29, 2010 4:04:49 PM CDT

  NZGUY...well, wouldn't you?

  by clavius

  Just sayin'

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content Just sayin'

• Jul 29, 2010 4:21:09 PM CDT

  that ten dollar 2001 Blu Ray ain't no joke.

  by beyondthunderdome2girls1cupbillcosby

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content

• Jul 29, 2010 4:24:33 PM CDT

  BSG in Blue Ray? Did they take out the grain?

  by rplocke

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content

• Jul 29, 2010 7:05:05 PM CDT

  GODDIDIT

  by president baltar

  
  Up until the point that God actually proved to be real in the BSG universe, I really enjoyed the religious aspects of the show. I found it fascinating that a race of machines could have a monotheistic culture and that the human race was polytheistic. It was not lost on me either that the monotheistic culture waged their own form of ethnic cleansing upon the religiously misguided humans. Be that as it may, what really pulled me in was the process of mulling over how a race of machines could find religion in the first place, and secondly, why the humans were polytheistic. I certainly didn’t expect that the war they were fighting was a conflict waged by proxy, with Cylons and humans as mere puppets, with Almighty God on one side pulling His strings and the six gods on the other side pulling theirs. I knew I wasn’t watching a story akin to the Iliad. I could tell that the story was driven by the characters who were actually onstage—not by God or the gods. To think otherwise would have been downright foolish.
  
  I am only half the fool, it turns out. Understand though: I am not the fool because I was wrong. I am the fool because I thought RDM & Co. were honest brokers. Silly me. I believe it was John Joseph Adams, one of Tor.com’s bloggers and member of the BSG Roundtable, that succinctly said, “Ronald D. Moore is dead to me.”
  
  Actually, it’s worse. His characters are dead. All of them. They’ve been gutted, fileted, and hung out to dry. Their eviscerated husks are nothing more than bitter memories of what could’ve and should’ve been. This is what happens when writers run away from their own story, when they forego the most basic rule of writing: don’t lie to your audience. Don’t dupe them. Don’t you dare take their intelligence and treat it like toilet paper. Don’t. You. Dare.
  
  But they did.
  
  You know what a deus ex machina is—even if you’re unfamiliar with the term. It’s when some cheesy plot device comes out of nowhere to solve all the plot problems of the story, rendering useless all the previous plot struggles that had come before it. Remember the TV show, Dallas? Bobby Ewing was dead, right? Wrong! It was all a dream! It was a dream! Some stupid moron had to have a dream in order to bring Bobby back. Science fiction doesn’t have to use dreams though, because we have way-cool high tech devices like nanotechnology, and AI—but in BSG’s case, they couldn’t even do that. They went to God Himself. Pah!
  
  For those of you who respectfully disagree with the notion that God suddenly came out of the blue, that Head Six (Baltar’s seemingly imaginary friend) was somehow adequate foreshadowing that God really was at hand, my question is this: how? A predictive Head Six (who claimed she was an angel) was no more a hint of God’s true existence than the predictive Oracle of Pithia was for the actual existence of the six gods. They both felt mystical, yes; they both felt supernatural, yes; but there was nothing about these two parallel story lines that couldn’t be explained by the elements that had already been introduced in the story.
  
  Hence, what we have here folks—God’s master plan brought to you by those two ravishingly good looking angels—is a classic deus ex machina. And a huge one at that. As H.G. Wells himself said regarding the deus ex machina, “If anything is possible, then nothing is interesting.”
  
  Well, with God, anything can happen.
  
  But you know what? Anything can happen in fiction, too. God could’ve been in this sci-fi story without it having to be a deus ex machina; God can be in any science fiction story as long as it’s structured properly.
  
  Ah, there’s the rub. Structure.
  
  You see, deus ex machinas come in all shapes and sizes. Some are annoying. Others are downright destructive. The annoying ones tend to be one or two steps beyond the interior logic of the narrative; but the devastating ones literally transform the inherent structure of the story—and that’s exactly what RDM & Co. did to BSG. They destroyed their own story.
  
  If you don’t quite yet see what I mean, well, believe me, you’re not alone because I know damn well that RDM & Co. are absolutely clueless. This is why I’m going to address the mini-lecture to them since they’re the ones who are responsible for this fiasco.
  
  Note to BSG writing staff: ever heard of a character story? Well, if you haven’t, then I suggest you watch your own TV show for the last four seasons up until the very last hour of the finale—because that’s exactly what you guys had been writing up until God showed up to save the day. Ever heard of an idea story? Hint: watch the last hour of the finale that you wretched souls vomited upon us and that is precisely what an idea story is. These are two different story forms which make completely different demands upon character and plot—but don’t take my word for it. Orson Scott Card elucidated upon these story types in his how-to book, Characters & Viewpoint.
  
  BSG’s main characters were fully realized, breathing human beings—steeped in dire conflict, both internally and externally, all of whom were suffused with the desire and a willingness to change not only their station in life, but themselves. Ergo: a character story. An idea story is cut from a different cloth. It is meant to emphasize an idea, not a character or characters—in fact, the idea itself is the main character, and everyone else its subject. The characters serve as the idea’s vehicle, its agent. They must act on its behalf. Sure, the characters are determined; sure, they are idiosyncratic, but they are also two-dimensional because the idea itself must be fully explored. Characters following God’s master plan is a perfect idea story. In fact, characters following any master plan is an idea story.
  
  Remember Isaac Asimov? He wrote idea stories. He wrote great ones, like, say, the Foundation series. Psychohistory was the idea. Psychohistory was the main character. Psychohistory was also a plan; a plan of cosmic reach, of God-like reach, sweeping across the ages to help mitigate the devastating effects of the fall of the Galactic Empire.
  
  The key here is not that Asimov wrote a cool idea story. The key is that he constructed the story in a manner so as to inform the reader that it was an idea story. This is what competent writers do. To wit: Asimov introduces Hari Seldon (the inventor of psychohistory) and then unceremoniously leaves him behind. Because, you know, there’s a story to tell, and it sure ain’t about Hari. The narrative leaps forward in time in order to prove out the progress of the plan. New characters are introduced while previous ones fade away. It becomes pretty clear fairly quickly that Asimov doesn’t want you to get attached to his characters—he wants you to get attached to his idea. When he actually does spend some time with his characters they are necessarily clever and resourceful, but they are also necessarily two-dimensional (determined with a goal). They are never ever a threat to upstage the much more fascinating and complex main character of psychohistory.
  
  So yes: fiction is the art of the lie, but you have to be upfront and honest about the nature of your lie; and once you have the reader’s (or audience’s) trust, you are then honor-bound to hold true to the story’s form—all the way through to its end. Let me repeat: THE STORY MUST HOLD TRUE TO ITS FORM ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO ITS END.
  
  And that’s where BSG blew it. By radically—and suddenly—shifting the story’s emphasis from character to idea RDM & Co. not only violated the tacit agreement between storyteller and fan, but they exploded the internal engine that had been propelling BSG forward since its inception: its characters. This is not only a betrayal to the fans, mind you. This is a betrayal to the art of fiction. Look, the hard truth about fiction is this: form follows emphasis, yes; but expectation follows form. Character stories are resolved by their main characters—they themselves are the agents of their own change. Period. That’s the expectation. End of story. Therefore, I watched with boiling blood as some of the most fully realized sci-fi characters of all time, characters that I surely thought were on the verge of determining their own fate, suddenly became subservient to God’s master plan. Suddenly all their free will coagulated into an ugly red herring. All their angst, inner conflict and hard decision making suddenly lost all relevant meaning—the meaning that comes when a character affects change and he/she is ultimately the one who is responsible for it.
  
  Folks, what I watched wasn’t the art of creating fiction. What I watched was the art of dismantling it.
  
  As the final hour excruciatingly limped towards its end, one unbelievable plot point proceeded to follow the next: the centurions departed to find their own destiny; everyone disavowed technology; everyone spread out over the globe so they could starve to death. It was surreal. If BSG had still been an inkling of its former self, those 3 key decisions alone would have fueled enough conflict to justify 3 more seasons of the show. Instead, our tragically hollowed out characters effortlessly made their decisions and everyone else didn’t even blink; they simply followed en masse, like a hive mind, or worker bees, dutifully serving the (cockamamie) plan.
  
  Then it got worse.
  
  The story launched itself 150,000 years into the future. It was clumsy and jarring, but really, what else were the writers supposed to do? They had an idea story on their hands, and like Asimov’s Foundation series, they had to jump the narrative forward in order to show the fruit of God’s labor.
  
  Which is us, of course. We are the fruit of God’s labor, and that leaves us with one last nugget to choke on: Hera. Ah, yes, precious Hera. She is our mitochondrial Eve. She was half human and half Cylon—and that has truly been our salvation, has it not? For let’s not forget, the Cylon god proved to be the one true God. And while we, as Hera’s descendants, have developed throughout the ages, building vast empires and constructing tall cities, we have obviously learned to embrace our inner machine, and in so doing, we have embraced the grace of God. For today, God is worshipped by over 2 billion people.
  
  Wow. Maybe it’s time for the centurions to come back, don’t you think? We could all sing “Kumbaya.”
  
  Let me move on.
  
  Say what you will about Battlestar Galactica, whether you want to marvel at its gritty realism, its amazing action sequences, special effects, its top-notch acting and directing, or its inspired musical score—the heart and soul of the show was its characters. Yet no longer. Just like Kara, their very souls have popped out of existence, fully dissipated within the skeletal remains of a once potent character story. For what we have left is nothing more than an empty grasp of lost possibilities, that never-ending guessing game of the coulda and shoulda beens. Because in fiction, there’s a good way to lie and there’s a bad way to lie, and if you ask me, someone ought to develop a polygraph test for the Ronald D. Moores of the world—to keep writers like him honest—so we can keep vivid and fully realized characters true to form, to watch them live and die in the manner by which their world was built: in character.
  
  

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content <p> Up until the point that God actually proved to be real in the BSG universe, I really enjoyed the religious aspects of the show. I found it fascinating that a race of machines could have a monotheistic culture and that the human race was polytheistic. It was not lost on me either that the monotheistic culture waged their own form of ethnic cleansing upon the religiously misguided humans. Be that as it may, what really pulled me in was the process of mulling over how a race of machines could find religion in the first place, and secondly, why the humans were polytheistic. I certainly didn’t expect that the war they were fighting was a conflict waged by proxy, with Cylons and humans as mere puppets, with Almighty God on one side pulling His strings and the six gods on the other side pulling theirs. I knew I wasn’t watching a story akin to the Iliad. I could tell that the story was driven by the characters who were actually onstage—not by God or the gods. To think otherwise would have been downright foolish. <p> I am only half the fool, it turns out. Understand though: I am not the fool because I was wrong. I am the fool because I thought RDM & Co. were honest brokers. Silly me. I believe it was John Joseph Adams, one of Tor.com’s bloggers and member of the BSG Roundtable, that succinctly said, “Ronald D. Moore is dead to me.” <p> Actually, it’s worse. His characters are dead. All of them. They’ve been gutted, fileted, and hung out to dry. Their eviscerated husks are nothing more than bitter memories of what could’ve and should’ve been. This is what happens when writers run away from their own story, when they forego the most basic rule of writing: don’t lie to your audience. Don’t dupe them. Don’t you dare take their intelligence and treat it like toilet paper. Don’t. You. Dare. <p> But they did. <p> You know what a deus ex machina is—even if you’re unfamiliar with the term. It’s when some cheesy plot device comes out of nowhere to solve all the plot problems of the story, rendering useless all the previous plot struggles that had come before it. Remember the TV show, Dallas? Bobby Ewing was dead, right? Wrong! It was all a dream! It was a dream! Some stupid moron had to have a dream in order to bring Bobby back. Science fiction doesn’t have to use dreams though, because we have way-cool high tech devices like nanotechnology, and AI—but in BSG’s case, they couldn’t even do that. They went to God Himself. Pah! <p> For those of you who respectfully disagree with the notion that God suddenly came out of the blue, that Head Six (Baltar’s seemingly imaginary friend) was somehow adequate foreshadowing that God really was at hand, my question is this: how? A predictive Head Six (who claimed she was an angel) was no more a hint of God’s true existence than the predictive Oracle of Pithia was for the actual existence of the six gods. They both felt mystical, yes; they both felt supernatural, yes; but there was nothing about these two parallel story lines that couldn’t be explained by the elements that had already been introduced in the story. <p> Hence, what we have here folks—God’s master plan brought to you by those two ravishingly good looking angels—is a classic deus ex machina. And a huge one at that. As H.G. Wells himself said regarding the deus ex machina, “If anything is possible, then nothing is interesting.” <p> Well, with God, anything can happen. <p> But you know what? Anything can happen in fiction, too. God could’ve been in this sci-fi story without it having to be a deus ex machina; God can be in any science fiction story as long as it’s structured properly. <p> Ah, there’s the rub. Structure. <p> You see, deus ex machinas come in all shapes and sizes. Some are annoying. Others are downright destructive. The annoying ones tend to be one or two steps beyond the interior logic of the narrative; but the devastating ones literally transform the inherent structure of the story—and that’s exactly what RDM & Co. did to BSG. They destroyed their own story. <p> If you don’t quite yet see what I mean, well, believe me, you’re not alone because I know damn well that RDM & Co. are absolutely clueless. This is why I’m going to address the mini-lecture to them since they’re the ones who are responsible for this fiasco. <p> Note to BSG writing staff: ever heard of a character story? Well, if you haven’t, then I suggest you watch your own TV show for the last four seasons up until the very last hour of the finale—because that’s exactly what you guys had been writing up until God showed up to save the day. Ever heard of an idea story? Hint: watch the last hour of the finale that you wretched souls vomited upon us and that is precisely what an idea story is. These are two different story forms which make completely different demands upon character and plot—but don’t take my word for it. Orson Scott Card elucidated upon these story types in his how-to book, Characters & Viewpoint. <p> BSG’s main characters were fully realized, breathing human beings—steeped in dire conflict, both internally and externally, all of whom were suffused with the desire and a willingness to change not only their station in life, but themselves. Ergo: a character story. An idea story is cut from a different cloth. It is meant to emphasize an idea, not a character or characters—in fact, the idea itself is the main character, and everyone else its subject. The characters serve as the idea’s vehicle, its agent. They must act on its behalf. Sure, the characters are determined; sure, they are idiosyncratic, but they are also two-dimensional because the idea itself must be fully explored. Characters following God’s master plan is a perfect idea story. In fact, characters following any master plan is an idea story. <p> Remember Isaac Asimov? He wrote idea stories. He wrote great ones, like, say, the Foundation series. Psychohistory was the idea. Psychohistory was the main character. Psychohistory was also a plan; a plan of cosmic reach, of God-like reach, sweeping across the ages to help mitigate the devastating effects of the fall of the Galactic Empire. <p> The key here is not that Asimov wrote a cool idea story. The key is that he constructed the story in a manner so as to inform the reader that it was an idea story. This is what competent writers do. To wit: Asimov introduces Hari Seldon (the inventor of psychohistory) and then unceremoniously leaves him behind. Because, you know, there’s a story to tell, and it sure ain’t about Hari. The narrative leaps forward in time in order to prove out the progress of the plan. New characters are introduced while previous ones fade away. It becomes pretty clear fairly quickly that Asimov doesn’t want you to get attached to his characters—he wants you to get attached to his idea. When he actually does spend some time with his characters they are necessarily clever and resourceful, but they are also necessarily two-dimensional (determined with a goal). They are never ever a threat to upstage the much more fascinating and complex main character of psychohistory. <p> So yes: fiction is the art of the lie, but you have to be upfront and honest about the nature of your lie; and once you have the reader’s (or audience’s) trust, you are then honor-bound to hold true to the story’s form—all the way through to its end. Let me repeat: THE STORY MUST HOLD TRUE TO ITS FORM ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO ITS END. <p> And that’s where BSG blew it. By radically—and suddenly—shifting the story’s emphasis from character to idea RDM & Co. not only violated the tacit agreement between storyteller and fan, but they exploded the internal engine that had been propelling BSG forward since its inception: its characters. This is not only a betrayal to the fans, mind you. This is a betrayal to the art of fiction. Look, the hard truth about fiction is this: form follows emphasis, yes; but expectation follows form. Character stories are resolved by their main characters—they themselves are the agents of their own change. Period. That’s the expectation. End of story. Therefore, I watched with boiling blood as some of the most fully realized sci-fi characters of all time, characters that I surely thought were on the verge of determining their own fate, suddenly became subservient to God’s master plan. Suddenly all their free will coagulated into an ugly red herring. All their angst, inner conflict and hard decision making suddenly lost all relevant meaning—the meaning that comes when a character affects change and he/she is ultimately the one who is responsible for it. <p> Folks, what I watched wasn’t the art of creating fiction. What I watched was the art of dismantling it. <p> As the final hour excruciatingly limped towards its end, one unbelievable plot point proceeded to follow the next: the centurions departed to find their own destiny; everyone disavowed technology; everyone spread out over the globe so they could starve to death. It was surreal. If BSG had still been an inkling of its former self, those 3 key decisions alone would have fueled enough conflict to justify 3 more seasons of the show. Instead, our tragically hollowed out characters effortlessly made their decisions and everyone else didn’t even blink; they simply followed en masse, like a hive mind, or worker bees, dutifully serving the (cockamamie) plan. <p> Then it got worse. <p> The story launched itself 150,000 years into the future. It was clumsy and jarring, but really, what else were the writers supposed to do? They had an idea story on their hands, and like Asimov’s Foundation series, they had to jump the narrative forward in order to show the fruit of God’s labor. <p> Which is us, of course. We are the fruit of God’s labor, and that leaves us with one last nugget to choke on: Hera. Ah, yes, precious Hera. She is our mitochondrial Eve. She was half human and half Cylon—and that has truly been our salvation, has it not? For let’s not forget, the Cylon god proved to be the one true God. And while we, as Hera’s descendants, have developed throughout the ages, building vast empires and constructing tall cities, we have obviously learned to embrace our inner machine, and in so doing, we have embraced the grace of God. For today, God is worshipped by over 2 billion people. <p> Wow. Maybe it’s time for the centurions to come back, don’t you think? We could all sing “Kumbaya.” <p> Let me move on. <p> Say what you will about Battlestar Galactica, whether you want to marvel at its gritty realism, its amazing action sequences, special effects, its top-notch acting and directing, or its inspired musical score—the heart and soul of the show was its characters. Yet no longer. Just like Kara, their very souls have popped out of existence, fully dissipated within the skeletal remains of a once potent character story. For what we have left is nothing more than an empty grasp of lost possibilities, that never-ending guessing game of the coulda and shoulda beens. Because in fiction, there’s a good way to lie and there’s a bad way to lie, and if you ask me, someone ought to develop a polygraph test for the Ronald D. Moores of the world—to keep writers like him honest—so we can keep vivid and fully realized characters true to form, to watch them live and die in the manner by which their world was built: in character. <p>

• Jul 29, 2010 7:42:25 PM CDT

  Re : PRESIDENT BALTAR

  by real deal

  As a whole lot of people have tried to point out to people like you some of us liked the ending! I'm not religious at all but I'm smart enough to know that there could be intelligences out there that would seem like God to us. And remember the line from the Baltar angel character himself " You know he doesn't like that name ". Sigh! You also must have known that the new series roughly paralleled the old through out it's run. In the old series it was hinted at ( albeit in a kind of clumsy way ) that there were powers at work behind the scenes manipulating things. Also I guess the point was lost on you that they knew they had been down this road more than once. Their technology growing faster than their maturity was the problem eveytime. Getting rid of their tech allowed them to not draw attention to themselves from any other Cylon faction and gave them time to hopefully mature and avoid the same mistake ( again ). I'm sorry but I almost expected this kind of ending and could see where it was going a long time ago. I'm glad they didn't blink and explained what Baltar was seeing and others couldn't. I'm glad they tied it up in the end and didn't go the ambiguous route. I liked the ending and I'm sorry because of some silly reason you have a problem with it. Yes please move on and get over it.

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content As a whole lot of people have tried to point out to people like you some of us liked the ending! I'm not religious at all but I'm smart enough to know that there could be intelligences out there that would seem like God to us. And remember the line from the Baltar angel character himself " You know he doesn't like that name ". Sigh! You also must have known that the new series roughly paralleled the old through out it's run. In the old series it was hinted at ( albeit in a kind of clumsy way ) that there were powers at work behind the scenes manipulating things. Also I guess the point was lost on you that they knew they had been down this road more than once. Their technology growing faster than their maturity was the problem eveytime. Getting rid of their tech allowed them to not draw attention to themselves from any other Cylon faction and gave them time to hopefully mature and avoid the same mistake ( again ). I'm sorry but I almost expected this kind of ending and could see where it was going a long time ago. I'm glad they didn't blink and explained what Baltar was seeing and others couldn't. I'm glad they tied it up in the end and didn't go the ambiguous route. I liked the ending and I'm sorry because of some silly reason you have a problem with it. Yes please move on and get over it.

• Jul 29, 2010 9:06:20 PM CDT

  Season 3 of BSG was kind of lame.

  by voice o. reason

  From the time they left New Caprica to Starbuck's "death," I pretty much lost interest. "The Woman King," "A Measure of Salvation," "A Day in the Life," "Dirty Hands," and "Taking a Break from All Your Worries" were some of the worst in the series.

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content From the time they left New Caprica to Starbuck's "death," I pretty much lost interest. "The Woman King," "A Measure of Salvation," "A Day in the Life," "Dirty Hands," and "Taking a Break from All Your Worries" were some of the worst in the series.

• Jul 30, 2010 4:28:52 AM CDT

  @President Baltar - Fantastic post.

  by v'shael

  You've encapsulated why the finale annoyed so many viewers who felt a deep seated betrayal by it.Sure, some people liked it. I'm not sure I can understand why, but I accept that they did. What kind of annoys me is the minority of fans who refuse to accept that there are legitimate reasons for hating it also. For feeling betrayed and let down by it. That we're hating just for the sake of hating.

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content You've encapsulated why the finale annoyed so many viewers who felt a deep seated betrayal by it.<br /><br />Sure, some people liked it. I'm not sure I can understand why, but I accept that they did. What kind of annoys me is the minority of fans who refuse to accept that there are legitimate reasons for hating it also. For feeling betrayed and let down by it. That we're hating just for the sake of hating.<br /><br />

• Jul 30, 2010 11:09:25 AM CDT

  Sorry Pres Baltar

  by thegoldbergv

  but I don't agree. I appreciate the a criticism of the show without resorting to the words "God did it" or "they're all angels" or whatever but the 3 events that happen at the end don't have the significance you describe. For starters, the Centurions going off on their own. Who would that cause conflict? They've just proven themselves to not be a threat. As for spreading out and dying of starvation? I don't think so. Disease, exposure, perhaps, but again after however many years of being couped up on ships I think having land and a home would be a powerful motivation. Also, Galactica was destroyed and most of the other ships would (I imagine) be on their last legs as well.
  
  On Hera as Eve I think you have a point, that strikes me as a last minute addition and it seems tacked on. But overall, I found the finale very satisfying. Almost every character gets a moment of resolution, it has an extended coda AND one of the best battles and FX work in the whole series.
  
  For me its far more sucessful than LOST's ending, which was basically the same as 2 hours of Starbuck disappearing

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content but I don't agree. I appreciate the a criticism of the show without resorting to the words "God did it" or "they're all angels" or whatever but the 3 events that happen at the end don't have the significance you describe. For starters, the Centurions going off on their own. Who would that cause conflict? They've just proven themselves to not be a threat. As for spreading out and dying of starvation? I don't think so. Disease, exposure, perhaps, but again after however many years of being couped up on ships I think having land and a home would be a powerful motivation. Also, Galactica was destroyed and most of the other ships would (I imagine) be on their last legs as well. <P><P>On Hera as Eve I think you have a point, that strikes me as a last minute addition and it seems tacked on. But overall, I found the finale very satisfying. Almost every character gets a moment of resolution, it has an extended coda AND one of the best battles and FX work in the whole series. <p><p>For me its far more sucessful than LOST's ending, which was basically the same as 2 hours of Starbuck disappearing

• Jul 30, 2010 11:12:03 AM CDT

  so many typos

  by thegoldbergv

  should say "A criticism" and "WHY would that cause conflict?"
  
  Damn you lack of edit function

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content should say "A criticism" and "WHY would that cause conflict?" <P><P>Damn you lack of edit function

• Jul 30, 2010 12:21:12 PM CDT

  GoldbergV

  by frozen01

  Exactly. I had a problem with the "Hera as Eve" thing, too, as it seemed a bit cheesy and just took me out of the story. I didn't have any problem, though, with the more supernatural elements of the story, despite being an atheist myself, because I understand that human beings do have a tendency to assign a divine explanation to that which lacks an explanation otherwise. The characters in the series do the exact same thing, no surprise there... doesn't mean they're right. Perhaps "god did it", perhaps not. There could be a dozen explanations that don't involve an all-powerful entity like a god. It's sci-fi, after all.
  I can understand someone not liking it, but it is frustrating to see people throwing the whole show out because of two minutes at the end. No, not just that... ~their take on~ two minutes at the end.

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content Exactly. I had a problem with the "Hera as Eve" thing, too, as it seemed a bit cheesy and just took me out of the story. I didn't have any problem, though, with the more supernatural elements of the story, despite being an atheist myself, because I understand that human beings do have a tendency to assign a divine explanation to that which lacks an explanation otherwise. The characters in the series do the exact same thing, no surprise there... doesn't mean they're right. Perhaps "god did it", perhaps not. There could be a dozen explanations that don't involve an all-powerful entity like a god. It's sci-fi, after all. <p>I can understand someone not liking it, but it is frustrating to see people throwing the whole show out because of two minutes at the end. No, not just that... ~their take on~ two minutes at the end.

• Jul 30, 2010 12:28:47 PM CDT

  one more thing

  by frozen01

  Even if "god did it"... so what? We can't appreciate that? There are tons of gods and god-like supernatural entities in Neil Gaiman's works... can an atheist not enjoy Sandman or American Gods then? Watchmen even played with the concept with Dr. Manhattan, who, if we'd only seen his actions and not the character himself, we would have called a "god".
  It's a story, and supernatural/divine elements are nothing new. After all, what is "god" but a mysterious, powerful entity that we know nothing about? That could mean anything. It's not like Starbuck stopped, turned to the camera, and said "Jesus is real, so everyone should stop what they are doing and go worship Him right now." So I guess I'm not sure why everyone would be so bothered by the developments with her character.

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content Even if "god did it"... so what? We can't appreciate that? There are tons of gods and god-like supernatural entities in Neil Gaiman's works... can an atheist not enjoy Sandman or American Gods then? Watchmen even played with the concept with Dr. Manhattan, who, if we'd only seen his actions and not the character himself, we would have called a "god". <p>It's a story, and supernatural/divine elements are nothing new. After all, what is "god" but a mysterious, powerful entity that we know nothing about? That could mean anything. It's not like Starbuck stopped, turned to the camera, and said "Jesus is real, so everyone should stop what they are doing and go worship Him right now." So I guess I'm not sure why everyone would be so bothered by the developments with her character.

• Jul 30, 2010 2:36:48 PM CDT

  Frozen

  by thegoldbergv

  Yeah too true. I only have 2 gripes with the finale, Hera as Eve (and most of that whole scene TBH) and the fact we didn't really see much of Cheif after he killed Tory. Another scene with him, just going off to the "highlands" would've been nice. The rest is fine by me.
  
  I don't have a problem with the God stuff (I know it doesn't like that name) and I'm an atheist too. For me, thats what sci-fi is all about, the so-called "big" questions. The way they do it is sufficiently vague enough as to not refer to any particular religion either, its not like Apollo and Starbuck got lead into a church and into the light by a guy called Christian Shepherd(!)

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content Yeah too true. I only have 2 gripes with the finale, Hera as Eve (and most of that whole scene TBH) and the fact we didn't really see much of Cheif after he killed Tory. Another scene with him, just going off to the "highlands" would've been nice. The rest is fine by me. <P><P>I don't have a problem with the God stuff (I know it doesn't like that name) and I'm an atheist too. For me, thats what sci-fi is all about, the so-called "big" questions. The way they do it is sufficiently vague enough as to not refer to any particular religion either, its not like Apollo and Starbuck got lead into a church and into the light by a guy called Christian Shepherd(!)

• Jul 30, 2010 7:06:54 PM CDT

  HEY HERC --- ELLERY QUEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  by oknight

  Sept. 28 -- FINALLY
  
  If you've never seen it (and that's probably everyone) this may have been the BEST actual detective fiction TV show EVER DONE UNTIL HUTTON'S SON DID NERO WOLFE!!! This deserves trumpets and brass bands!

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content Sept. 28 -- FINALLY If you've never seen it (and that's probably everyone) this may have been the BEST actual detective fiction TV show EVER DONE UNTIL HUTTON'S SON DID NERO WOLFE!!! <p><p> This deserves trumpets and brass bands!

• Jul 30, 2010 9:25:48 PM CDT

  fair points guys

  by president baltar

  but it does surprise me to hear you say you are athiests and the whole god thing didn't seem silly to you, after all, they were basically claiming that god is real, which, as we all know, he is not

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content but it does surprise me to hear you say you are athiests and the whole god thing didn't seem silly to you, after all, they were basically claiming that god is real, which, as we all know, he is not

• Jul 31, 2010 12:41:18 AM CDT

  BSG finale...what about those flashbacks?

  by voice o. reason

  Despite all the convincing Ron Moore, et al., tried to do for them, the flashbacks did not enhance the story one bit. Parts were certainly interesting, but they probably should have been a separate episode unto themselves because they didn't have a whole lot to do with the actual plot. It was just the writers being self-indulgent.

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content Despite all the convincing Ron Moore, et al., tried to do for them, the flashbacks did not enhance the story one bit. Parts were certainly interesting, but they probably should have been a separate episode unto themselves because they didn't have a whole lot to do with the actual plot. It was just the writers being self-indulgent.

• Jul 31, 2010 9:40:05 AM CDT

  Meh. I'm ok with the flashbacks

  by thegoldbergv

  The Boomer one - "tell the old man I owe him one" is completely unnecessary and slows the whole thing down, coming in the midst of a battle, but the others I though were all relevant to the characters.
  
  @Pres Baltar. Thats the point though, by referring to the cylon God as "IT" they basically are saying that everything we know of God is untrue, "it" could be anything, another more advanced hybrid, a supercomputer, an alien consciousness, whatever you like. To have a theme about monotheistic religion running through the whole show, then on the last ep reveal that 'God' to be real, then in the final scene to reveal that maybe its not a 'God' after all is a brave and powerful message to go out on. Of course, thats just my take on it

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content The Boomer one - "tell the old man I owe him one" is completely unnecessary and slows the whole thing down, coming in the midst of a battle, but the others I though were all relevant to the characters. <P><P>@Pres Baltar. Thats the point though, by referring to the cylon God as "IT" they basically are saying that everything we know of God is untrue, "it" could be anything, another more advanced hybrid, a supercomputer, an alien consciousness, whatever you like. To have a theme about monotheistic religion running through the whole show, then on the last ep reveal that 'God' to be real, then in the final scene to reveal that maybe its not a 'God' after all is a brave and powerful message to go out on. Of course, thats just my take on it

• Jul 31, 2010 9:53:22 AM CDT

  I didn't see it as brave

  by president baltar

  I just saw it as a ( double ) cop out
  
  cop out one = god is real! he did it all!
  
  cop out two = did we say god? just kidding!

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content I just saw it as a ( double ) cop out <p> cop out one = god is real! he did it all! <p> cop out two = did we say god? just kidding!

• Jul 31, 2010 11:33:59 AM CDT

  the fact that Ron Moore has us talking

  by rben

  about the big questions: life, death, the universe, whether a divine hand or randomness is pretty amazing when you figure that the medium that is used is one primarily used to sell dish detergents and law firms. (same applies with Lost). Most of tv is reality shows and most of movies are remakes. Any one (like Nolan) who can get our brain matter firing again is to be congratulated.

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content about the big questions: life, death, the universe, whether a divine hand or randomness is pretty amazing when you figure that the medium that is used is one primarily used to sell dish detergents and law firms. (same applies with Lost). Most of tv is reality shows and most of movies are remakes. Any one (like Nolan) who can get our brain matter firing again is to be congratulated.

• Jul 31, 2010 12:08:01 PM CDT

  Here here rben

  by thegoldbergv

  well said that man. BSG is my favourite non-HBO show ever. Considering the drek that goes out on TV both sides of the Atlantic, the fact the show can inspire debate and intepretation a year after it finished HAS to be applauded.
  
  I know you mention LOST, and while I appreciate the intention to do similar themes on that show, I don't consider it anywhere near as sucessful. It did get me to read Slaughterhouse 5 though, so I thank it for that.

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content well said that man. BSG is my favourite non-HBO show ever. Considering the drek that goes out on TV both sides of the Atlantic, the fact the show can inspire debate and intepretation a year after it finished HAS to be applauded. <P><P>I know you mention LOST, and while I appreciate the intention to do similar themes on that show, I don't consider it anywhere near as sucessful. It did get me to read Slaughterhouse 5 though, so I thank it for that.

• Jul 31, 2010 1:49:27 PM CDT

  Okay -- about the Galactica "God" thing

  by oknight

  The ending of the series revealed that the entire mysterious complex scheme that had been unfolding from the first episode was REALLY "Strange Things Happen In Space" (STHIS)! It revealed that the entire series was essentially a very long, somewhat better written episode of "Space 1999"

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content The ending of the series revealed that the entire mysterious complex scheme that had been unfolding from the first episode was REALLY "Strange Things Happen In Space" (STHIS)! It revealed that the entire series was essentially a very long, somewhat better written episode of "Space 1999"

• Jul 31, 2010 1:52:19 PM CDT

  Why did the moon split in two?

  by oknight

  and then recombine? Why did that planet we're whizzing by take over people's minds? Why was there a dragon in that spaceship? Why... because "Strange Things Happen In Space", obviously.

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content and then recombine? Why did that planet we're whizzing by take over people's minds? Why was there a dragon in that spaceship? Why... because "Strange Things Happen In Space", obviously.

• Jul 31, 2010 5:14:22 PM CDT

  Venture Bros. Interview???

  by gojira_x

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content

• Aug 02, 2010 2:33:58 PM CDT

  it's tempting to buy the bionic dvd due to

  by rben

  nostalgia and campy goodness, but i may hold out untill someone sells a used copy cheaper (or netflix). still pissed that Thriller is $111. That price needs to come down. if not i'll definately be netflxing it. Two things i will get sight unseen. The motion comics of both x-men and buffy. not sure when buffy is coming out but to see john cassidy's weird rich cobenesque comic art realism even in limited animation has gotta be a trip! my inner geek screams, "get it, got it, good!"

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content nostalgia and campy goodness, but i may hold out untill someone sells a used copy cheaper (or netflix). still pissed that Thriller is $111. That price needs to come down. if not i'll definately be netflxing it. Two things i will get sight unseen. The motion comics of both x-men and buffy. not sure when buffy is coming out but to see john cassidy's weird rich cobenesque comic art realism even in limited animation has gotta be a trip! my inner geek screams, "get it, got it, good!"

• Aug 02, 2010 10:32:31 PM CDT

  oknight

  by president baltar

  can't argue with that!

  Reply to Talkback

  Subject

  Content can't argue with that!

User Login

Quick Talkback Form