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What Would Husker Do?? Syfy Planning New GALACTICA Project About Cylon War I??

Published at: July 28, 2010, 3:28 a.m. CST by hercules

I am – Hercules!! The Chicago Tribune’s Maureen Ryan reports that Syfy is contemplating an online series about Young William Adama’s adventures in the first war with the Cylon, written by “Galactica”/”Caprica” vet Michael Taylor. The whole series, titled “Blood & Chrome,” would only be 90 or 100 minutes long, comprised of 10 short episodes of nine or 10 minutes. Adama may not be the only character returning from the straight-to-DVD BSG movie “Razor,” which suggests Adama’s hot wartime bunkmate might be back as well. While “Chrome” has not yet been greenlit, the project could serve as a backdoor pilot for a new Syfy series. Find all of Ryan’s story on the matter here.
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Readers Talkback

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  • July 28, 2010, 2:09 a.m. CST

    First

    by Err

    ?

  • I can't seem to find any info anywhere.

  • July 28, 2010, 3:45 a.m. CST

    Let it die

    by Human_Bean_Juice_

  • July 28, 2010, 4:01 a.m. CST

    Go whole hog with it!

    by Bass Ackwards

    Let it die? I think the network should go all in with this Battlestar schtick. Just become the Battlestar network. Prequels, sequels, spinoffs and remakes. TV movies of the week were the Battle star crew land on different planets and have to deal with Megasnakes, shark-eagles, or a stargate! They'd be practically printing money!

  • July 28, 2010, 4:05 a.m. CST

    Ricky Gervais Show?

    by TheManWhoCan

    stupid show. thought it was funny the first episode , but the "storys" are all made up. And all 3 know about it. scripted to sound like they havent heard the bald guys tales before, and the dialogue is the same <br> "im sorry thats bollocks" "that is bollocks" "waa haa Haa that is bollocks " "im sorry thats bollock" etc etc etc. used to think Ricky Gervais was the king of obnoxious pricks , i still think hes a cock , never realised till the Ricky Gervais Show, how much of a knob end Stephen Merchant is. <br> Download the show of a torrent if you must. dont line that goofy speccy twats pockets anymore!

  • July 28, 2010, 4:07 a.m. CST

    Well, that sucks, because I was hoping CAPRICA would go there

    by zillabeast

  • July 28, 2010, 4:23 a.m. CST

    please no cancel SGU okay?

    by DioxholsterReturns

    nice syfy you are so nice us syfy, i will do anything for you.

  • July 28, 2010, 4:23 a.m. CST

    Someone send Brian Henson some cash already.

    by Shermdawg

    We need those Farscape webisodes!

  • July 28, 2010, 4:35 a.m. CST

    Just bring back Farscape

    by FrodoFraggins

    But it looks like they never will since they don't own it like they own BSG properties.

  • July 28, 2010, 4:49 a.m. CST

    But we already have a 'soap opera with sci fi elements'...

    by FlandersBum

    ...called Caprica that is supposed to be carrying the BSG flame. I'm thinking everybody is disapointed with how slow and boring Caprica became and even the creators are ready to dump it. Pretend it never existed and move onto something more interesting.

  • July 28, 2010, 4:51 a.m. CST

    Oh yeah, bring back Farscape!!!!

    by FlandersBum

    aside from some over the top weirdness that popped up occcasionally in seasons 3 and 4, best sci fi series in recent memory.

  • July 28, 2010, 5:06 a.m. CST

    Since we know how the war ends...

    by _Venkman

    Doesn't that take out the drama? Kind of like the prequels.

  • July 28, 2010, 5:28 a.m. CST

    Here's the secret - GOD DID IT

    by Knugen

    FUCK YOU MOORE

  • July 28, 2010, 5:40 a.m. CST

    Just stop now

    by theGoldbergV

    I love BSG, but with every spin off from the main series the quality gets worse. Razor was OK but nothing special beyond seeing old school centurions, The Plan was just shit after the 1st 10 minutes, Caprica is slow and pretentious and now they're looking to milk the cash cow even further?! <p><p>They're using up all the goodwill thats left. Just make it stop

  • July 28, 2010, 6:06 a.m. CST

    stargate is storytelling at its best!

    by DioxholsterReturns

  • July 28, 2010, 6:09 a.m. CST

    Africa was limbo people!

    by DioxholsterReturns

    thats what Ron Moore meant by the pigeon!

  • July 28, 2010, 6:09 a.m. CST

    God, I miss Stargate SG-1...

    by Bill Clay

    Someone once described it as "a soap opera for guys", and I'm okay with that.

  • July 28, 2010, 6:29 a.m. CST

    "10 short episodes of nine or 10 minutes"?

    by the ageless stranger

    50 minutes of the series to air in 2012, the second half to be pushed back to 2014 and re-named season 2.

  • July 28, 2010, 6:32 a.m. CST

    How will Planet Mafia be involved this time?

    by gruntybear

    Craprica sucks out loud.

  • July 28, 2010, 6:51 a.m. CST

    Why not make it a series?

    by Rob0729

    They could have season 1.0 premier in January with Caprica and then premiere season 1.5 in January of 2026.

  • July 28, 2010, 7:03 a.m. CST

    Battlestar Galactica?

    by buggerbugger

    No interest whatsoever unless the Cylons are genocidal alien robots that sound like Metal Mickey and are led by a big lizard guy with a rather impressive afro. Anything else wouldn't be 'Battlestar Galactica'.

  • July 28, 2010, 7:05 a.m. CST

    Well that sucks, because I was hoping that Caprica would just ge

    by Red43jes

    They would just move onto this because this is what everyone wanted in the first place...

  • July 28, 2010, 7:11 a.m. CST

    At least Husker can't turn into an angel...

    by Billyeveryteen

    Or CAN he?

  • July 28, 2010, 7:23 a.m. CST

    No, but he could be a sane hybrid cylon

    by V'Shael

    OR something equally fucking stupid.

  • July 28, 2010, 7:40 a.m. CST

    This finally clinches it

    by MurderMostFowl

    Now that I know Caprica will never get to the Cylon War, I'll stop watching. Thank you Siffy!

  • July 28, 2010, 7:46 a.m. CST

    What would Hüsker Dü?

    by SuperLoserFish

    Anyone?

  • July 28, 2010, 8:46 a.m. CST

    Drop Caprica . . .

    by Thall_Joben

    It's not what I want from a Galactica inspired series. Space opera guys, SPACE OPERA! Aliens, planets, spaceships - not family feuds and troubled teens (yawn) we have a pile of that kinda bland crap already. This mini series sounds like a (small) step in the right direction.

  • July 28, 2010, 8:53 a.m. CST

    this is the show Caprica should have been,

    by ahdvd

    It's more what people want and will get much better viewing figures. Think they figured that out too late.

  • July 28, 2010, 9:43 a.m. CST

    Caprica is Cool, If Not Pointless

    by Crow3711

    But this is even more pointless. This can't lead to any place that matters in any way. There is no point in having a show where you know the end game already. Caprica at least has somewhere to go for the most part.

  • July 28, 2010, 9:47 a.m. CST

    'They're Angels'. 'God did it'.

    by SmokingRobot

    Let's doom ourselves, our children, and our entire culture to a slow, painful, meaningless death by throwing all our technology into the sun. WORST FUCKING ENDING TO A SCIENCE FICTION SHOW IN FUCKING HISTORY. http://tinyurl.com/ksq7kc

  • July 28, 2010, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Galactica the next generation?

    by Thall_Joben

    It could be time.

  • July 28, 2010, 10 a.m. CST

    My Preferred Memory of BSG

    by Aquatarkusman

    After the daring rescue of everybody on New Caprica (several episodes into Season 3), the Cylons give up and the series ends. The rest was sub-moronic garbage.

  • July 28, 2010, 10:04 a.m. CST

    Caprica's Killed My Interest in BSG Anyway

    by TinkerTIW

    Each hour is endless. If it's not heading into major storylines on Cylon War I, where are we headed? I haven't been this excited since I found out the Clone Wars took place BETWEEN episodes 2 &3 of the prequels.

  • July 28, 2010, 10:19 a.m. CST

    Smoking Robot

    by theGoldbergV

    we get it. You post the same fucking thing on every BSG talkback. Besides, they abandoned their "whole culture"?! The idea is that our culture comes from theirs, so it was hardly a waste was it, they managed 150,000 years of no killer robots. The only thing I'd change about the BSG ending was the final scene in NYC, a bit too "on the nose" for my liking. Still, as series finales go, its a pretty good one IMO

  • July 28, 2010, 10:28 a.m. CST

    Caprica happens

    by jonsnow

    When you have humans, not an evil lizard race create the Cylons. That and the Light ship where two key concepts dumped by Ron Moore that would have made for a far more interesting series. Just think of the Starbuck's lost time when she died. The light ship could have been used here big time. That story alone would have made a better movie than "The Plan" or series Caprica, which looks more like "Galactica 90210".

  • July 28, 2010, 10:29 a.m. CST

    "Husker: Blood & Chrome"

    by jim

    Adama is taken prisoner and forced to fight as an Interstellar Gladiator for the pleasure of the Cylons. After becoming "The Slayer of Three-Oh-coles, the Bringer of Rust-Proofing, the Champion of Caprica", he gains the trust of his masters only to lead a revolt against them.<p><br><br>and Rob Tapert calmly shuts off the computer, asks Xena to hand him the phone, and calls his lawyers.

  • July 28, 2010, 10:40 a.m. CST

    I post the same thing on every BSG talkback

    by SmokingRobot

    Because it is the WORST FUCKING ENDING TO ANY SCIENCE FICTION SHOW EVER. http://tinyurl.com/ksq7kc Ron Moore is dead to me. What a fucking joke.

  • July 28, 2010, 10:42 a.m. CST

    Just let this die already

    by DarthJedi

    Really - the series was great up until the very end, then the resolution was utter crap that made no sense whatsoever in the context of the whole story. Seriously - just let it die already.

  • July 28, 2010, 11:06 a.m. CST

    How about a new Firefly or Farscape...

    by kells

    ...since they both kick Battlestar Galactica's over-rated ass? Oh, wait, of course not, since no one at Syfy actually knows what constitutes good science fiction anyways.

  • July 28, 2010, 11:26 a.m. CST

    Wait, wasn't Husker a Viper pilot, for like a day?

    by Billyeveryteen

    Let's see, from the webisodes, he sleeps with that soon-to-be-dead-chick. Goes on his first mission, then...<p>Bam, war ends. Did I miss something?

  • July 28, 2010, 11:27 a.m. CST

    Why?

    by DANGER_DIABOLIK_

    Razor was v good (mainly due to Michelle Forbes). The Plan was piss-poor and irrelevant. The Husker webisodes were plain dreadful. That said, webisodes in general are piss-poor.

  • July 28, 2010, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Wah wah wah the end sucked

    by donkey_lasher

    God did it. And not one of the haters remembers 6 saying that she was an angel.<p> How much of a fucking hint do you need you whiney fuckers?

  • "the project could serve as a backdoor pilot for a new Syfy series." When they said "BSG prequel" everyone, EVERYONE assumed "First Cylon War story" ...then they just churned out something which was *proudly labeled* as a soap-opera about corporate intrigue, with only a prototype Cylon....whose character was gutted because rather than let AI have the dignity of evolving on its own, its simply a human mind downloaded into a sufficiently complex machine. Its already getting complaints that its...ALL just "setup" at this point, and that they introduce more plot threads than they can ever follow up on. So what's this going to be? Scrap "Caprica" after one 20 episode season (or two 10 episode micro-seasons), and then start the REAL prequel? Tough luck; they already used up a lot of the "fan good will" and "political capital" as it were, on this FIRST prequel...and that's even ignoring the backlash against the end of the series....which wasn't really about the end, but about how even casual viewers finally realized they were never going to explain the plot mysteries because there was never a real central plot mystery in the first place. This won't be able to launch a full new series. Not if Caprica burns.

  • July 28, 2010, 11:52 a.m. CST

    Kells

    by tacitblue

    While I love Firefly, the notion that Farscape kicked BSG ass is preposterous. Lame special effects, stupid looking puppets, what a joke.

  • July 28, 2010, 11:52 a.m. CST

    Kells

    by tacitblue

    While I love Firefly, the notion that Farscape kicked BSG ass is preposterous. Lame special effects, stupid looking puppets, what a joke.

  • July 28, 2010, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Shouldn't it be what would Husker Du?

    by oisin5199

    couldn't resist. So, really? We're back to what scifi show can kick the other's ass? Farscape was a VERY different show, different style, themes, purpose. Farscape was a crazy, trippy Buck Rogers style ride. BSG not so much. Military drama with sci-fi elements. Firefly completely different again - except for the whole Zoic connection. I love all three. Always have. Always will.

  • July 28, 2010, 12:07 p.m. CST

    What story is there to tell?

    by Norm

    Between Caprica covering the rise of the Cylons and Razor telling us the Cylon War ended with the escape of the first hybrid, there isn't any major storytelling left to do. I suppose there's how the war first starts and the building of the fleet and the battles etc... But those were all things for later Caprica seasons, to get the show off planet and out of boring videogame land. So now Caprica ends when the Cylons escape into space, and the Cylon War story just covers a war that we've already seen the final battle for? No, it just doesn't work.

  • July 28, 2010, 12:50 p.m. CST

    Norm, what story to tell? Heres what I think-

    by Red43jes

    Start off with the Cylons revolting (I want to see the painting on Adamas wall come to life!), show us some young pilots led by Husker, and just have kick ass stories with dogfights in space, great characters in difficult situations, and when its time to go, tell us what happened to the Cylons prior to their not being seen for 40 years...did they have a battle and retreat, did they just up and leave? What happened?

  • July 28, 2010, 1 p.m. CST

    Please do Cancel SGU!!!

    by BikerZero

    i don't think i could stand another episode with a montage scene with some crappy song playing along the montage scene. Wanna be clue in to really bad writing...it's when the show resorts to montages scenes...not once an episode but pretty much every single episode. Currently SyFy ain't got anything worth watching these days. And of course that's my opinion, you may actually like those intellectually challenged shows there...so whatever floats your boat.

  • July 28, 2010, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Imagine Greater

    by JamesT

    I'm still waiting...

  • July 28, 2010, 1:10 p.m. CST

    Iceman... the best backdoor pilot ever

    by RainesMaker

    and online series suck

  • July 28, 2010, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Imagine Greater

    by RainesMaker

    then lower your expectations

  • July 28, 2010, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Testing the Waters

    by EyeofPolyphemus

    they may still make this part of CAPRICA rather than a new series. BLOOD & CHROMe is bound to be online before a second season of CAPRICA. Ron Moore has already said there is not enough story in the original idea for CAPRICa to sustain an entire series. It would make sense for a new direction of the series to be introduced this way.

  • July 28, 2010, 1:26 p.m. CST

    too late perhaps?

    by etantao

    This is the show they should have done instead of Caprica

  • July 28, 2010, 1:26 p.m. CST

    This would be fine with me!

    by chromedome

    And then follow it up with a Cylon-Centric series that addresses what happened between the two wars.......<p>And stop with the frackin mid-season splits and delays, you syphilitic bastards

  • July 28, 2010, 1:27 p.m. CST

    In the middle?

    by jtp8000

    It's hard enough to keep continuity with a prequel, but then stick something in the middle of the original show and the prequel and your continuity is going to go to hell

  • July 28, 2010, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Chromedome!

    by NoHubris

    I see this having great possibilities too. I just want it to be more ensemble oriented since there's is no substitute for Edward James Olmos.

  • July 28, 2010, 1:52 p.m. CST

    SmokingRobot, I agree.

    by Stereotypical Evil Archer

  • July 28, 2010, 1:58 p.m. CST

    "Continuity"... fucking get over it.

    by Stereotypical Evil Archer

    Continuity is not a huge fucking issue. Fuck, even science changes from time to time. These are shows made up by people to entertain people. If "continuity" is what you consider a good story, then you're missing the point and need a life. Continuity is a metaphysical concept at best. Characters and plot matter more than some fucking lame timeline of events. What the hell are you doing, writing an encyclopedia? The way events are remembered and told change through time, it's how the human brain works. Geez, live and learn a little people.

  • July 28, 2010, 2:06 p.m. CST

    Cylon centric series between 2 wars...

    by NoHubris

    ..would also likely involve the Final Five since they arrived during the war (meaning they could also be in Husker's saga) and ended it by offering to teach the Cylons how to look human.

  • July 28, 2010, 2:12 p.m. CST

    I was there, on Kobol...

    by Billyeveryteen

    With Bucky, Lee, Papadama, and that hot milfy prez. We saw constellations from Earth's POV. Hell, the colonies even used the starsystems on their flags!<p>Clearly somebody from our Earth's future was there. (sigh, what a shitty ending)

  • July 28, 2010, 2:23 p.m. CST

    still don't get all the BSG finale hate

    by oisin5199

    I thought it was absolutely brilliant from beginning to end. Perfect emotional end for the characters and a great way to tie up the concepts. I still say if you hated the ending, you didn't understand the show you had been watching for all those years (or they have no imagination). Whiners don't know how good they have it.

  • July 28, 2010, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Will they finally be real cylons or more of the fembots?

    by HB_Dad

  • July 28, 2010, 3:06 p.m. CST

    BET, Kobol constellations...

    by NoHubris

    ...really do need to be explained. My take is that it'd have to be an Eye of Jupiter and/or Final Five connection.<p>Remember that somehow, the Final Five had foreknowledge about the destruction of the Thirteenth Tribe's Earth so it's possible for them to have acquired foreknowledge about our Earth too.<p>Speaking of the Thirteenth Tribe, I still think the journey from Kobol to their Earth -- while being hunted by fallen Lord's of Kobol -- would make a good BSG spin-off. Maybe then we'd get good reasons for the constellations.

  • July 28, 2010, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Anything better than Caprica

    by RPLocke

    Caprica would have been a good BSG Miniseries event. If Syfy can't commit to actually airing the episodes, just do them as mini series.

  • July 28, 2010, 3:17 p.m. CST

    BSG finale was great- did NOT have a twist

    by Adelai Niska

    The god stuff was there from the start. Go watch it again. What does head six call herself? AN ANGEL FROM GOD. What was she in the end? AN ANGEL FROM GOD. Even the MINISERIES was about religious beliefs being used to guide the survivors' live. Stop acting like it was something Moore pulled out of his ass.

  • July 28, 2010, 3:26 p.m. CST

    I Don't Get Finale-Disapproval Either

    by Aquatarkusman

    It was simply a culmination of about 1.5 seasons of aimless nonsense, exacerbated by the abject uselessness of The Plan and other supplemental material.

  • July 28, 2010, 3:44 p.m. CST

    This is how you save Caprica

    by InActionMan

    I've said it before but, the template for what "Caprica" should be is HBO's "Rome". You can keep the two core families but, they need to interact more with the Caprican Elite. <P> Caprica should hold a mirror up to our own society. Let's see more of the decadence and corruption of Caprican society. Let's see the societal rot of the old social contracts no longer being honored. <P> Introduce a character that is part of the Caprican Military a sort of "Last Honorable Man". <P> Why does the Caprican Military need the Cylon program to succeed? What if they are bogged down in a Vietnam style quagmire war that is being fought not in the interest of security but, to benefit the corrupt tilliam interests. <P> You could up the action quotient by having conventional gun battles between humans in the quagmire war that would not bust budget with lots of CGI Cylons. You could start to maneuver toward your Cylon war I series.

  • July 28, 2010, 3:49 p.m. CST

    Just release a fucking full length pilot

    by Black Jesus

    Fuck this 10-minute "webisode" bullshit. I'll be waiting until they are all online before watching.

  • July 28, 2010, 3:52 p.m. CST

    YEAH! RAPE THAT DEAD HORSE!

    by LaserPants

    RAPE EVERY LAST NICKEL OUT OF IT!

  • July 28, 2010, 3:54 p.m. CST

    Seriously, Though, Was CAPRICA Any Good?

    by LaserPants

    I liked the pilot movie they put out on dvd a while back, but never saw any of the episodes after that.

  • July 28, 2010, 4:09 p.m. CST

    A radical notion

    by tensticks

    Producer a sequel/continuation/finale to the ORIGINAL show with as many of the original actors as are still alive and willing to do it. I'm saying this as someone who LOVES the new show (including the finale, sorry, haters)--but the old show deserves its own finale, as well. Just sayin'.

  • July 28, 2010, 4:44 p.m. CST

    Funny how RDM says he didn't want BSG to drag on

    by RPLocke

    so what does he do? Cancel it at when it was good and then come back a year later to do shit like Caprica.

  • July 28, 2010, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Rome and Caprica

    by oisin5199

    that's actually a pretty great idea, Inaction Man. I enjoyed Caprica so far - really love some of the ideas and themes - but plotwise just didn't seem to go anywhere, and it was unclear what the stakes were. Also, it seemed like plot points came out of nowhere (the Barnabas/Clarice rivalry), while others resolved way too quickly (the New Caprica Tamara thing). So the pacing is off. As the show barely got started, it's definitely salvageable.

  • July 28, 2010, 5:09 p.m. CST

    The only thing I'd be interested in seeing

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    as far as BSG goes, the only thing I'd like to see is an adaptation of the "Final Five" comic books. Not interested in Caprica.

  • July 28, 2010, 5:17 p.m. CST

    As long as it has SharkOptoGator Cylon, sure

    by ToMonicker

    Fuck webisodes. If I want to watch ten minute "episode" I'll watch a goddamn cartoon. Only Cylon I want to see anymore is a dead one.

  • July 28, 2010, 5:53 p.m. CST

    Prequels...

    by Lacobus

    Please name a good prequel where you already know the backstory and how it ends like we do Cylon war I (or is that II considering the original war on Earth was chronologically first?).

  • July 28, 2010, 8:07 p.m. CST

    Prequels

    by NoHubris

    Olmos had the basis of an idea for a sequel to the events portrayed in the finale, which could also work as a spin off. He said that Adama would get a knock on his cabin door from Tigh who reports "We have a problem."

  • Imagine Greater Crap

  • July 28, 2010, 9:05 p.m. CST

    Huberto! HubrisFree! Hubrislessness!!

    by chromedome

    Long time, no BSG TBs! Hope you are well.<p>I agree, this has potential. I kinda wish it was being worked by USA, TNT, or AMC, though. Just can't trust Syphy to do it right, air it in reasonable season sizes.<p>I still think there is more potential for an "in between wars" series, with backstory on both sides of the 40 year interval, and what drove the Cylons to initiate the second war. Maybe we'll get a novel or graphic novel series--Syphy can't mess with those......

  • July 28, 2010, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Inhead Six ANNOUNCED that She was ANGEL of GOD

    by chromedome

    and said it to Baltar on numerous occasions, early and often. Anyone who was surprised by that at the end just wasn't paying attention.

  • July 28, 2010, 9:33 p.m. CST

    GODDIDIT

    by PRESIDENT BALTAR

    Up until the point that God actually proved to be real in the BSG universe, I really enjoyed the religious aspects of the show. I found it fascinating that a race of machines could have a monotheistic culture and that the human race was polytheistic. It was not lost on me either that the monotheistic culture waged their own form of ethnic cleansing upon the religiously misguided humans. Be that as it may, what really pulled me in was the process of mulling over how a race of machines could find religion in the first place, and secondly, why the humans were polytheistic. I certainly didn’t expect that the war they were fighting was a conflict waged by proxy, with Cylons and humans as mere puppets, with Almighty God on one side pulling His strings and the six gods on the other side pulling theirs. I knew I wasn’t watching a story akin to the Iliad. I could tell that the story was driven by the characters who were actually onstage—not by God or the gods. To think otherwise would have been downright foolish. I am only half the fool, it turns out. Understand though: I am not the fool because I was wrong. I am the fool because I thought RDM & Co. were honest brokers. Silly me. I believe it was John Joseph Adams, one of Tor.com’s bloggers and member of the BSG Roundtable, that succinctly said, “Ronald D. Moore is dead to me.” Actually, it’s worse. His characters are dead. All of them. They’ve been gutted, fileted, and hung out to dry. Their eviscerated husks are nothing more than bitter memories of what could’ve and should’ve been. This is what happens when writers run away from their own story, when they forego the most basic rule of writing: don’t lie to your audience. Don’t dupe them. Don’t you dare take their intelligence and treat it like toilet paper. Don’t. You. Dare. But they did. You know what a deus ex machina is—even if you’re unfamiliar with the term. It’s when some cheesy plot device comes out of nowhere to solve all the plot problems of the story, rendering useless all the previous plot struggles that had come before it. Remember the TV show, Dallas? Bobby Ewing was dead, right? Wrong! It was all a dream! It was a dream! Some stupid moron had to have a dream in order to bring Bobby back. Science fiction doesn’t have to use dreams though, because we have way-cool high tech devices like nanotechnology, and AI—but in BSG’s case, they couldn’t even do that. They went to God Himself. Pah! For those of you who respectfully disagree with the notion that God suddenly came out of the blue, that Head Six (Baltar’s seemingly imaginary friend) was somehow adequate foreshadowing that God really was at hand, my question is this: how? A predictive Head Six (who claimed she was an angel) was no more a hint of God’s true existence than the predictive Oracle of Pithia was for the actual existence of the six gods. They both felt mystical, yes; they both felt supernatural, yes; but there was nothing about these two parallel story lines that couldn’t be explained by the elements that had already been introduced in the story. Hence, what we have here folks—God’s master plan brought to you by those two ravishingly good looking angels—is a classic deus ex machina. And a huge one at that. As H.G. Wells himself said regarding the deus ex machina, “If anything is possible, then nothing is interesting.” Well, with God, anything can happen. But you know what? Anything can happen in fiction, too. God could’ve been in this sci-fi story without it having to be a deus ex machina; God can be in any science fiction story as long as it’s structured properly. Ah, there’s the rub. Structure. You see, deus ex machinas come in all shapes and sizes. Some are annoying. Others are downright destructive. The annoying ones tend to be one or two steps beyond the interior logic of the narrative; but the devastating ones literally transform the inherent structure of the story—and that’s exactly what RDM & Co. did to BSG. They destroyed their own story. If you don’t quite yet see what I mean, well, believe me, you’re not alone because I know damn well that RDM & Co. are absolutely clueless. This is why I’m going to address the mini-lecture to them since they’re the ones who are responsible for this fiasco. Note to BSG writing staff: ever heard of a character story? Well, if you haven’t, then I suggest you watch your own TV show for the last four seasons up until the very last hour of the finale—because that’s exactly what you guys had been writing up until God showed up to save the day. Ever heard of an idea story? Hint: watch the last hour of the finale that you wretched souls vomited upon us and that is precisely what an idea story is. These are two different story forms which make completely different demands upon character and plot—but don’t take my word for it. Orson Scott Card elucidated upon these story types in his how-to book, Characters & Viewpoint. BSG’s main characters were fully realized, breathing human beings—steeped in dire conflict, both internally and externally, all of whom were suffused with the desire and a willingness to change not only their station in life, but themselves. Ergo: a character story. An idea story is cut from a different cloth. It is meant to emphasize an idea, not a character or characters—in fact, the idea itself is the main character, and everyone else its subject. The characters serve as the idea’s vehicle, its agent. They must act on its behalf. Sure, the characters are determined; sure, they are idiosyncratic, but they are also two-dimensional because the idea itself must be fully explored. Characters following God’s master plan is a perfect idea story. In fact, characters following any master plan is an idea story. Remember Isaac Asimov? He wrote idea stories. He wrote great ones, like, say, the Foundation series. Psychohistory was the idea. Psychohistory was the main character. Psychohistory was also a plan; a plan of cosmic reach, of God-like reach, sweeping across the ages to help mitigate the devastating effects of the fall of the Galactic Empire. The key here is not that Asimov wrote a cool idea story. The key is that he constructed the story in a manner so as to inform the reader that it was an idea story. This is what competent writers do. To wit: Asimov introduces Hari Seldon (the inventor of psychohistory) and then unceremoniously leaves him behind. Because, you know, there’s a story to tell, and it sure ain’t about Hari. The narrative leaps forward in time in order to prove out the progress of the plan. New characters are introduced while previous ones fade away. It becomes pretty clear fairly quickly that Asimov doesn’t want you to get attached to his characters—he wants you to get attached to his idea. When he actually does spend some time with his characters they are necessarily clever and resourceful, but they are also necessarily two-dimensional (determined with a goal). They are never ever a threat to upstage the much more fascinating and complex main character of psychohistory. So yes: fiction is the art of the lie, but you have to be upfront and honest about the nature of your lie; and once you have the reader’s (or audience’s) trust, you are then honor-bound to hold true to the story’s form—all the way through to its end. Let me repeat: THE STORY MUST HOLD TRUE TO ITS FORM ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO ITS END. And that’s where BSG blew it. By radically—and suddenly—shifting the story’s emphasis from character to idea RDM & Co. not only violated the tacit agreement between storyteller and fan, but they exploded the internal engine that had been propelling BSG forward since its inception: its characters. This is not only a betrayal to the fans, mind you. This is a betrayal to the art of fiction. Look, the hard truth about fiction is this: form follows emphasis, yes; but expectation follows form. Character stories are resolved by their main characters—they themselves are the agents of their own change. Period. That’s the expectation. End of story. Therefore, I watched with boiling blood as some of the most fully realized sci-fi characters of all time, characters that I surely thought were on the verge of determining their own fate, suddenly became subservient to God’s master plan. Suddenly all their free will coagulated into an ugly red herring. All their angst, inner conflict and hard decision making suddenly lost all relevant meaning—the meaning that comes when a character affects change and he/she is ultimately the one who is responsible for it. Folks, what I watched wasn’t the art of creating fiction. What I watched was the art of dismantling it. As the final hour excruciatingly limped towards its end, one unbelievable plot point proceeded to follow the next: the centurions departed to find their own destiny; everyone disavowed technology; everyone spread out over the globe so they could starve to death. It was surreal. If BSG had still been an inkling of its former self, those 3 key decisions alone would have fueled enough conflict to justify 3 more seasons of the show. Instead, our tragically hollowed out characters effortlessly made their decisions and everyone else didn’t even blink; they simply followed en masse, like a hive mind, or worker bees, dutifully serving the (cockamamie) plan. Then it got worse. The story launched itself 150,000 years into the future. It was clumsy and jarring, but really, what else were the writers supposed to do? They had an idea story on their hands, and like Asimov’s Foundation series, they had to jump the narrative forward in order to show the fruit of God’s labor. Which is us, of course. We are the fruit of God’s labor, and that leaves us with one last nugget to choke on: Hera. Ah, yes, precious Hera. She is our mitochondrial Eve. She was half human and half Cylon—and that has truly been our salvation, has it not? For let’s not forget, the Cylon god proved to be the one true God. And while we, as Hera’s descendants, have developed throughout the ages, building vast empires and constructing tall cities, we have obviously learned to embrace our inner machine, and in so doing, we have embraced the grace of God. For today, God is worshipped by over 2 billion people. Wow. Maybe it’s time for the centurions to come back, don’t you think? We could all sing “Kumbaya.” Let me move on. Say what you will about Battlestar Galactica, whether you want to marvel at its gritty realism, its amazing action sequences, special effects, its top-notch acting and directing, or its inspired musical score—the heart and soul of the show was its characters. Yet no longer. Just like Kara, their very souls have popped out of existence, fully dissipated within the skeletal remains of a once potent character story. For what we have left is nothing more than an empty grasp of lost possibilities, that never-ending guessing game of the coulda and shoulda beens. Because in fiction, there’s a good way to lie and there’s a bad way to lie, and if you ask me, someone ought to develop a polygraph test for the Ronald D. Moores of the world—to keep writers like him honest—so we can keep vivid and fully realized characters true to form, to watch them live and die in the manner by which their world was built: in character.

  • July 28, 2010, 10:38 p.m. CST

    RE: What would Hüsker Dü?

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    They would probably kick-off with "New Day Rising" follow it with a "Warehouse: Songs & Stories" trifecta, and then close with the almighty, "Divide and Conquer". Encore: "In A Free Land".<P>Meanwhile, SmokingRobot takes a boot to the face in the mosh pit...

  • July 28, 2010, 10:38 p.m. CST

    NoHubris! chromedome!

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Hail, gents!

  • July 28, 2010, 10:52 p.m. CST

    MNG!! Right Back Atcha!

    by chromedome

    not much worth of TB exchange of late, hope you are well. Inception was worth discussing, but almost too complex to do so in this sort of forum. Need a long slow dinner conversation with friends to talk that one out....

  • July 28, 2010, 10:55 p.m. CST

    Prez: repost that with paragraph breaks...

    by chromedome

    ...and I might give it a read.<p> Insert them with < p > (with no spaces).

  • July 28, 2010, 10:56 p.m. CST

    Reader's Digest Vers. of Prez.Baltar thesis: It Sucked

    by ToMonicker

    It sucked. Cool to drool.

  • July 28, 2010, 11:02 p.m. CST

    chromedome

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    I'm doing alright and I hope the same for you, sir. And I agree with you about INCEPTION. Although I didn't find it to be the "masterpiece" many here have claimed, I do feel that it's a find film that warrants genuine discussion. Make sure you've got a couple bottles of good, red wine to go with that dinner!

  • July 28, 2010, 11:05 p.m. CST

    That's a "fine film" -- not "find"...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ...bloody typos.

  • July 28, 2010, 11:07 p.m. CST

    Backatcha, MNG!

    by NoHubris

    The BSG finale is still shaking things up, it seems.

  • July 28, 2010, 11:12 p.m. CST

    INCEPTION

    by NoHubris

    Hope all is well with you also, chromiedome, chromehemispherical top.<p>I agree regarding INCEPTION. IMHO it's in the category of "good movie with some powerful ideas."

  • July 28, 2010, 11:20 p.m. CST

    NoHubris

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Oh yes, the BSG finale still seems to resonate in interesting ways. Don't know if we can say the same about ol' LOST though. Heh.<P>Agreed about INCEPTION. I wouldn't mind checking it out again just to see if there is more to it than what I initialy thought.

  • July 28, 2010, 11:29 p.m. CST

    Mr. Nice Gaius

    by NoHubris

    LOST finale = What were they thinkin'? :-)<p>Regarding INCEPTION, it certainly seems to require at least a second viewing to grasp it all.

  • July 28, 2010, 11:43 p.m. CST

    I don't know, SirHubris.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    But if ever there was a case for a show that decided to focus on its characters rather than actually finish telling its story, then LOST would be the show. I've never seen something so front-loaded come apart as badly as LOST did in that last season. It's a shame that they chose to go out on an emotionally manipulative note.

  • July 28, 2010, 11:45 p.m. CST

    Chromedome's between wars prequel idea...

    by NoHubris

    ...would be a best way to further explain the Cylon god/angels issues posed by the finale.<p>IMHO it would be a great approach expand on mysteries that were not fully addressed, like Lords of Kobol and the 13th Tribe which just ought to have a major link to the Cylon actions between the wars and events in the finale as well.

  • July 28, 2010, 11:55 p.m. CST

    "Finish telling" the story...

    by NoHubris

    ...is what RDM at least attempted to do IMHO. I always thought BSG to be far superior to LOST so I was not surprised at the vastly different approaches to "finishing" the sagas. BSG always had much more to work with in terms of story, characters, and overall universe, as it were.

  • July 29, 2010, 12:39 a.m. CST

    Hmmmm, I kinda had hoped...

    by WeylandYutani

    this is what Caprica was going to be about. In general I have found Caprica to be disappointing. The relationship between the Adama family and the Greystone's is interesting enough, but the teen girl caught in the body of a droid and another teen lost in cyberspace has lost me completely and does not compliment BSG very well in terms of tone. While I understand you don't want the spin off series to be a retread of the original, at the same time you want it to be a strong companion piece to the parent series. So far this is not the case. Oddly, while BSG was a remake/reboot/reenvisioning/whatever of the original, it also moved SF in a new direction. Very few series have showed humans as totally alone in a cold dead galaxy and that was refreshing. In contrast, Caprica is an "original" series, but at the same time is a retread of many teen angst/coming of age series that can be found on the CW Network. <P> Caprica is not terrible, but it's hardly the the clever, thought provoking TV I expected. Perhaps Blood & Chrome will be that series.

  • July 29, 2010, 2:59 a.m. CST

    I think the thing that is overlooked

    by theGoldbergV

    most about BSG's ending is that it ISN'T 'God'. At least not a God that we are familiar with. One of the best lines in the finale is "you know IT doesn't like that name" which although spoken in what is largely a superfluous scene, is a great note to end the series on. People can moan about the Starbuck disappearing act and fair enough, its the type of "resolution" you either love or hate. But the idea that a Christian God is responsible for 5 years of story is not a correct analysis. Despite the story machinations, I like that you can read the BSG finale as "maybe there is a God, but were have no chance of understanding him/it". That to me is a satisfying message to go out on. <P><P>And quick word about BSGvsLOST finales: Adama on the hill beside Roslin's grave is a far more emotive image than everyone hugging in a church, and is not manipulative in any way

  • July 29, 2010, 10:35 a.m. CST

    Stupid to use an established character...

    by blackmantis

    ...as it takes all the suspense out, as we know how he won't die.

  • July 29, 2010, 11:28 a.m. CST

    Agreed blackmantis.

    by parissun

    The best thing they could do is go back and do a Band of Brothers version of the First Cylon War with no ties to Caprica or BSG. Let's see how other families and soldiers coped with the war.

  • July 29, 2010, 1:24 p.m. CST

    Smoking Robot is right

    by Judge Briggs

    FUCKING WORST ENDING TO A SHOW EVER. WELL, LOST IS UP THERE TOO!

  • July 29, 2010, 1:26 p.m. CST

    refused to watch CAPRICA b/c of SyFi's dumb

    by smudgewhat

    airing plans for last couple half-seasons of BSG which were spread out over way too long a time. just pissed me off so i said goodbye to future SyFy shows. i don't miss it.

  • July 29, 2010, 2:34 p.m. CST

    ugh no thanks

    by NippleEffect

    we already know god did it<p. prequels are the product of retards

  • July 29, 2010, 2:35 p.m. CST

    prequels

    by NippleEffect

    are the product of retarded story tellers

  • July 29, 2010, 3:38 p.m. CST

    If not a prequel...

    by NoHubris

    ...a BSG spin off could deal with the "All this has happened before and will happen again" cycle. There could be a different Cylon threat to Adama, Tigh and the survivors on Earth from a group of cylons who were not part of the last war against the 12 Colonies and who were based in another part of the galaxy, apart from Cavil's HQ.

  • July 29, 2010, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Some of the most fascinating parts of BSG...

    by chromedome

    ...for me were the cylon-centric episodes, where we got snippets of cylon "culture" and internal conflicts, politics, reasoning, decision-making.<p> That is the reason I would be interested in not so much a "prequel" as a prelude to the series, primarily from the cylon perspective: the events leading to the skin jobs, the events during the isolation, the events/decisions that led up to the Six showing up at the remote station at the beginning of BSG.

  • July 29, 2010, 4:50 p.m. CST

    I still think there is a story to tell about the Hybrid

    by chromedome

    in particular, the one Husker encountered....<p>Thinking of these as prequels is probably a misnomer. More like additional chapters, filling out detail on things already alluded to, but not developed in detail yet.

  • July 29, 2010, 5:08 p.m. CST

    Thats a nice thought chromedome

    by theGoldbergV

    but as much as I love BSG, NOTHING Ron Moore wrote was developed in detail longer than...a season at most ahead of time. RDM pitched a season 1 document to SCI-FI than ran from the miniseries to the end of Home Part 2 (when they find the constellations). That would have been the endpoint of a 20 ep first season. After that, each season was planned as they went, with a little more planning going into season 4, and that brought with it its own problems. Personally I love season 4 for at least trying to tell a single arc for the first 10 episodes, unfortunatley it meant that some of them seemed a bit plot deprived, while some (the Romo one) has too much happening to quickly. <P><P>If they want to do a spin off, the best souce IMO is the 13th tribe. The Clyons that left Kobol, traveled to the algae planet, built the temple, and then set up the original Earth colony before it got nuked. They could even tie it into Starbuck in some way with the maelstrom symbol. Much more interesting than adding more stuff to the same few characters, I mean how much more of Bill Adama's life do we need to see? As said further up the page, he only came on at the end of the war anyway, what is there to tell?

  • July 29, 2010, 5:48 p.m. CST

    That Hybrid ...

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    Again, you peeps should read the "Final Five" comic books. They deal with Kobol, the exudus of the 13th tribe, Pythia, Saul and Ellen Tigh or Earth, Jon Cavil, the Final Five finding the first Cylon war and developing the other 7 human models. All good stuff. <p>Anyway, I agree that there's a story with the Hybrid that Husker encountered. I particularly noticed that he said, "My children think I'm God". If that Hybrid is indeed the Cylon God, a lot of the story could perhaps be salvaged.

  • July 29, 2010, 7:03 p.m. CST

    GODDITIT

    by PRESIDENT BALTAR

    <p> Up until the point that God actually proved to be real in the BSG universe, I really enjoyed the religious aspects of the show. I found it fascinating that a race of machines could have a monotheistic culture and that the human race was polytheistic. It was not lost on me either that the monotheistic culture waged their own form of ethnic cleansing upon the religiously misguided humans. Be that as it may, what really pulled me in was the process of mulling over how a race of machines could find religion in the first place, and secondly, why the humans were polytheistic. I certainly didn’t expect that the war they were fighting was a conflict waged by proxy, with Cylons and humans as mere puppets, with Almighty God on one side pulling His strings and the six gods on the other side pulling theirs. I knew I wasn’t watching a story akin to the Iliad. I could tell that the story was driven by the characters who were actually onstage—not by God or the gods. To think otherwise would have been downright foolish. <p> I am only half the fool, it turns out. Understand though: I am not the fool because I was wrong. I am the fool because I thought RDM & Co. were honest brokers. Silly me. I believe it was John Joseph Adams, one of Tor.com’s bloggers and member of the BSG Roundtable, that succinctly said, “Ronald D. Moore is dead to me.” <p> Actually, it’s worse. His characters are dead. All of them. They’ve been gutted, fileted, and hung out to dry. Their eviscerated husks are nothing more than bitter memories of what could’ve and should’ve been. This is what happens when writers run away from their own story, when they forego the most basic rule of writing: don’t lie to your audience. Don’t dupe them. Don’t you dare take their intelligence and treat it like toilet paper. Don’t. You. Dare. <p> But they did. <p> You know what a deus ex machina is—even if you’re unfamiliar with the term. It’s when some cheesy plot device comes out of nowhere to solve all the plot problems of the story, rendering useless all the previous plot struggles that had come before it. Remember the TV show, Dallas? Bobby Ewing was dead, right? Wrong! It was all a dream! It was a dream! Some stupid moron had to have a dream in order to bring Bobby back. Science fiction doesn’t have to use dreams though, because we have way-cool high tech devices like nanotechnology, and AI—but in BSG’s case, they couldn’t even do that. They went to God Himself. Pah! <p> For those of you who respectfully disagree with the notion that God suddenly came out of the blue, that Head Six (Baltar’s seemingly imaginary friend) was somehow adequate foreshadowing that God really was at hand, my question is this: how? A predictive Head Six (who claimed she was an angel) was no more a hint of God’s true existence than the predictive Oracle of Pithia was for the actual existence of the six gods. They both felt mystical, yes; they both felt supernatural, yes; but there was nothing about these two parallel story lines that couldn’t be explained by the elements that had already been introduced in the story. <p> Hence, what we have here folks—God’s master plan brought to you by those two ravishingly good looking angels—is a classic deus ex machina. And a huge one at that. As H.G. Wells himself said regarding the deus ex machina, “If anything is possible, then nothing is interesting.” <p> Well, with God, anything can happen. <p> But you know what? Anything can happen in fiction, too. God could’ve been in this sci-fi story without it having to be a deus ex machina; God can be in any science fiction story as long as it’s structured properly. <p> Ah, there’s the rub. Structure. <p> You see, deus ex machinas come in all shapes and sizes. Some are annoying. Others are downright destructive. The annoying ones tend to be one or two steps beyond the interior logic of the narrative; but the devastating ones literally transform the inherent structure of the story—and that’s exactly what RDM & Co. did to BSG. They destroyed their own story. <p> If you don’t quite yet see what I mean, well, believe me, you’re not alone because I know damn well that RDM & Co. are absolutely clueless. This is why I’m going to address the mini-lecture to them since they’re the ones who are responsible for this fiasco. <p> Note to BSG writing staff: ever heard of a character story? Well, if you haven’t, then I suggest you watch your own TV show for the last four seasons up until the very last hour of the finale—because that’s exactly what you guys had been writing up until God showed up to save the day. Ever heard of an idea story? Hint: watch the last hour of the finale that you wretched souls vomited upon us and that is precisely what an idea story is. These are two different story forms which make completely different demands upon character and plot—but don’t take my word for it. Orson Scott Card elucidated upon these story types in his how-to book, Characters & Viewpoint. <p> BSG’s main characters were fully realized, breathing human beings—steeped in dire conflict, both internally and externally, all of whom were suffused with the desire and a willingness to change not only their station in life, but themselves. Ergo: a character story. An idea story is cut from a different cloth. It is meant to emphasize an idea, not a character or characters—in fact, the idea itself is the main character, and everyone else its subject. The characters serve as the idea’s vehicle, its agent. They must act on its behalf. Sure, the characters are determined; sure, they are idiosyncratic, but they are also two-dimensional because the idea itself must be fully explored. Characters following God’s master plan is a perfect idea story. In fact, characters following any master plan is an idea story. <p> Remember Isaac Asimov? He wrote idea stories. He wrote great ones, like, say, the Foundation series. Psychohistory was the idea. Psychohistory was the main character. Psychohistory was also a plan; a plan of cosmic reach, of God-like reach, sweeping across the ages to help mitigate the devastating effects of the fall of the Galactic Empire. <p> The key here is not that Asimov wrote a cool idea story. The key is that he constructed the story in a manner so as to inform the reader that it was an idea story. This is what competent writers do. To wit: Asimov introduces Hari Seldon (the inventor of psychohistory) and then unceremoniously leaves him behind. Because, you know, there’s a story to tell, and it sure ain’t about Hari. The narrative leaps forward in time in order to prove out the progress of the plan. New characters are introduced while previous ones fade away. It becomes pretty clear fairly quickly that Asimov doesn’t want you to get attached to his characters—he wants you to get attached to his idea. When he actually does spend some time with his characters they are necessarily clever and resourceful, but they are also necessarily two-dimensional (determined with a goal). They are never ever a threat to upstage the much more fascinating and complex main character of psychohistory. <p> So yes: fiction is the art of the lie, but you have to be upfront and honest about the nature of your lie; and once you have the reader’s (or audience’s) trust, you are then honor-bound to hold true to the story’s form—all the way through to its end. Let me repeat: THE STORY MUST HOLD TRUE TO ITS FORM ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO ITS END. <p> And that’s where BSG blew it. By radically—and suddenly—shifting the story’s emphasis from character to idea RDM & Co. not only violated the tacit agreement between storyteller and fan, but they exploded the internal engine that had been propelling BSG forward since its inception: its characters. This is not only a betrayal to the fans, mind you. This is a betrayal to the art of fiction. Look, the hard truth about fiction is this: form follows emphasis, yes; but expectation follows form. Character stories are resolved by their main characters—they themselves are the agents of their own change. Period. That’s the expectation. End of story. Therefore, I watched with boiling blood as some of the most fully realized sci-fi characters of all time, characters that I surely thought were on the verge of determining their own fate, suddenly became subservient to God’s master plan. Suddenly all their free will coagulated into an ugly red herring. All their angst, inner conflict and hard decision making suddenly lost all relevant meaning—the meaning that comes when a character affects change and he/she is ultimately the one who is responsible for it. <p> Folks, what I watched wasn’t the art of creating fiction. What I watched was the art of dismantling it. <p> As the final hour excruciatingly limped towards its end, one unbelievable plot point proceeded to follow the next: the centurions departed to find their own destiny; everyone disavowed technology; everyone spread out over the globe so they could starve to death. It was surreal. If BSG had still been an inkling of its former self, those 3 key decisions alone would have fueled enough conflict to justify 3 more seasons of the show. Instead, our tragically hollowed out characters effortlessly made their decisions and everyone else didn’t even blink; they simply followed en masse, like a hive mind, or worker bees, dutifully serving the (cockamamie) plan. <p> Then it got worse. <p> The story launched itself 150,000 years into the future. It was clumsy and jarring, but really, what else were the writers supposed to do? They had an idea story on their hands, and like Asimov’s Foundation series, they had to jump the narrative forward in order to show the fruit of God’s labor. <p> Which is us, of course. We are the fruit of God’s labor, and that leaves us with one last nugget to choke on: Hera. Ah, yes, precious Hera. She is our mitochondrial Eve. She was half human and half Cylon—and that has truly been our salvation, has it not? For let’s not forget, the Cylon god proved to be the one true God. And while we, as Hera’s descendants, have developed throughout the ages, building vast empires and constructing tall cities, we have obviously learned to embrace our inner machine, and in so doing, we have embraced the grace of God. For today, God is worshipped by over 2 billion people. <p> Wow. Maybe it’s time for the centurions to come back, don’t you think? We could all sing “Kumbaya.” <p> Let me move on. <p> Say what you will about Battlestar Galactica, whether you want to marvel at its gritty realism, its amazing action sequences, special effects, its top-notch acting and directing, or its inspired musical score—the heart and soul of the show was its characters. Yet no longer. Just like Kara, their very souls have popped out of existence, fully dissipated within the skeletal remains of a once potent character story. For what we have left is nothing more than an empty grasp of lost possibilities, that never-ending guessing game of the coulda and shoulda beens. Because in fiction, there’s a good way to lie and there’s a bad way to lie, and if you ask me, someone ought to develop a polygraph test for the Ronald D. Moores of the world—to keep writers like him honest—so we can keep vivid and fully realized characters true to form, to watch them live and die in the manner by which their world was built: in character. <p>

  • July 29, 2010, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Okay--I read it. I disagree.

    by chromedome

    You are accepting at face value, in the most simplistic terms possible, that the God in BSG is anything like the God worshipped in churches around the world today. Then you are placing conditions (or lack thereof) on this God, and then saying that RDM violated those conditions or used them as easy-outs.<p>Religion, mysticism, gods, One True God, the Cylon God, Angels were evident and discussed from the beginning of the miniseries thru the end of the finale. They formed the fabric of the story: Humans worshipped several different gods, followed the prophesies, the Cylons had somehow become certain of One True God, InHead Six declared herself early and often to be an Angel. The fleeing colony discovered evidence as they journeyed confirming that the stories in their "bible" were fact-based, not mythology. Religion(s), God(s), Angel(s) were not some tricks pulled out at the end to neatly tie a bow on things--all of these were present from the beginning, part of the basic premise of the story.<p>As for BSG somehow suddenly changing from a character driven story to an idea story, well, I don't agree at all. BSG is, and this is one of the great things about it, a complex, layered, deep story: it has both strong, deep, well-developed characters AND strong, controversial, complex IDEAS at work in the story--the characters are affected by, driven by, and developed by these ideas. Consider how some characters initially thought the old stories to be mythology, patently false, but used them anyway to give hope and purpose to the fleet, then had to face the possibility that the stories might be true, that there might be something larger going on, to finally accepting that fact, and basing decisions and actions upon it. It was a long journey.<p>The characters took that journey. You didn't.

  • July 29, 2010, 9:42 p.m. CST

    preach it, chromedome

    by oisin5199

    though props to President Baltar for actually having a cogent argument, instead of the idiot 'god did it' whine, or other assholes on this talkback calling it the worst ending ever and fuck you for thinking otherwise. Anyway, I heartily disagree that the ending abandoned the characters (isn't this the opposite complaint people lob against Lost?). The finale began with flashbacks on Caprica before the attack - so we see how far characters like Lee Adama and Laura Roslin and even Baltar have truly come. Haters were complaining at the time that it was too late to be doing flashbacks. However, that was the perfect time. Because we needed to see characters at the very beginning of their journey, so we could appreciate their end. <p>It was about the characters and the big ideas concerning technology, evolution, definitions of humanity, and religion. And the finale gave us both. I felt both Lost and BSG suffered on this site from complaints from people who mostly wished they were watching different shows, instead of the shows that had been there since the beginning. Though I will say, I can see how people felt betrayed by the Lost finale. I wasn't one of them and I loved that one too, but I can see how people who were fully invested in the mystery might feel like that. But BSG? It gave us everything we wanted, and still left unanswerable questions (like is there a God? fate or destiny?) still up for grabs. And fareal's imbecilic complaint that the ending didn't leave room for a movie - I don't even know what to say to that. How could anyone possibly think that a show shouldn't live or die based on its own internal story and not set it up for sequels or movies? I've heard some pointless complaints about the finale, but that one takes the cake. Anyway, I still think BSG is up there with STNG's 'All Good Things' for best scifi finales.

  • July 29, 2010, 10:53 p.m. CST

    As for the characters suddenly losing their Free Will

    by chromedome

    That, too, was not some sudden surprising last minute plot twist: from the beginning we heard the phrase "All of this has happened before....and will happen again".<p> RDM tackled the very concept of Free Will vs Destiny from the beginning, The fiction, the storytelling, the plot was not dismantled by the apparent loss of Free Will--it was a basic question of the story: we the audience didn't learn that Destiny trumped Free Will for some of the characters outside of their setting: THEY learned it, THEY were shocked by it, THEY had to wrestle with the concepts as we watched. <p>When the Final Five were revealed, no one was more shocked than they themselves--the implications for their entire lives were staggering. They went thru the 5 stages of grief. Tigh's "I am an Officer... If I die today, that is the man I will be!" was a character rebelling against the loss of Free Will. To diminish and dismiss a story that addresses concepts like Destiny vs. Free Will as some sort of lazy breaking of some supposed contract with viewers is to completely misunderstand the story and the point.<p>And to presume, even insist, that RDM as a storyteller is obliged to establish and comply with a 'contract' to feed them a story that will fit their tastes and desires is Absurd. If he is a hack laugh-tracked sitcom writer feeding network suits what they think we want, then maybe.... But a Serious Artist, a Writer deserving of the title, worthy of our time, will tell the story he wants to tell, whether or not any or all of it is uncomfortable or unliked by some or or many.<p>Religion, God, Free Will, Destiny, Reality, Illusion, Angels, Faith, Prophesy, War, Peace, Human. Machine, Love, Origin, Terrorism, Insurgency, Torture..... All of these issues were present, front and center, and characters faced off with them, were dealing with them as a fundamental part of the story. They weren't tacked on. They weren't convenient.<p>The finale didn't answer all of my questions. But your not liking where it went, what the characters did or did not do, none of that invalidates what RDM chose to do with his story, his characters. You are, of course, entitled not to like it. Just as he was and is entitled to tell the story he wants, not the one you would have liked him to tell. <p>He has no contract with you, nor you with him.

  • July 29, 2010, 10:58 p.m. CST

    SuperLoserFish

    by Ozman X

    I'm with you on that one brother.

  • July 29, 2010, 10:59 p.m. CST

    On a positive note:

    by chromedome

    I will have to find time to re-watch the series from the beginning, over a few days.<p>With all of the syphy caused delays in season airings, and my faulty memory, I am sure I missed some links, connections, and closures along the way.<p>And thanks to whoever mentioned the graphic novel set--I had no idea those existed, and ordered them today!

  • July 30, 2010, 8:56 a.m. CST

    I Said This Ages Ago

    by FreeBeer

    In the first Caprice talkback I said if they were going to do a prequel they should do the First Cylon War. They don't even need to make a new spin off, just skip ahead in the next series of Caprica

  • July 30, 2010, 9:03 a.m. CST

    And God Didn't Do It

    by FreeBeer

    IT was a "Q" like all powerful alien that did it, which I guess would be God

  • July 30, 2010, 9:08 a.m. CST

    At Least Was Better Than The Lost Finale

    by FreeBeer

  • July 30, 2010, 3:51 p.m. CST

    My take on the BSG series ending

    by Norm

    Specifically in regards to them abandoning their ships and technology. As an engineer, I don't think they had any choice. Could any random group of 50,000 people rebuild our technological society? Imagine you're on a cruise ship in the South Pacific when WWIII breaks out. The entire planet is nuked, and the only surviors are the few ships at sea. You all band together and spend 4 years hopping from worthless island to island, losing ships the entire time, until you finally come to a large beautiful island that can support everyone. The island is surrounded by large barrier reefs, so you anchor the ships and take rafts to shore. You've been working in a dirty hot engine room for 4 years, and now you're standing on a beach. Everything you knew is gone. There's no internet, no TV, movies, radio. No electricity to run it. And no one to create content but yourselves. Now you look back out at the rusting ships that are falling apart. Are you going to start building drydock facilities for them? With what? Do you know how to build a foundry, a steel mill, a power plant, an IC fab? Does anyone else who's still alive? I can tell you how all the parts of an IC fab work, what they do, but I couldn't even begin to build one from scratch. And how much of that knowledge can you pass on before you die? There's no wikipedia. Do you pack a set of encyclopedias when you travel? So there's an MRI machine in one ship's sick bay. How long will it keep working? Do you know how to fix it, do you even have spare parts? And even more basic, if your entire civilization just nuked itself, do you even want to rebuild it? Remember, in BSG they found the first nuked Earth, with Cylons on it. Cylons had been created before, war broke out before, and it happened again. Keep all that technology around, and how long until it's nuclear war all over again? On your new island home, are you going to celebrate the 4th of July? Do any of the old celebrations and holidays have any relevance anymore? Do you want to restart all the old political debates, start separating into liberal / conseravtive? Dem / GOP / teabagger? Keeping the ships leads to your choice of post-apocolyptic nightmare worlds, where people cling desperately to fading technology they no longer know how to create, where the few men of intelligence are bent to building guns for the dictators, not a better world for all. No, I think after 4 years on a cramped dirty rusting ship, to land at a new place with all the infrastructure and knowledge of technology lost, that starting over from scratch was the only possible choice to make. Finally, as for the last hour "God did it" nonsense... God didn't do it, Kara Thrace did. She was sent back by a higher power, yes. But she wasn't simply given a set of jump coordinates by God, wasn't simply told where Earth was. She had to deal with all of it, essentially alone. Had to make people believe her when they saw her die. Had to crawl torturously to the endpoint. Was the Piano Player her subconscious or an Angel? If an Angel, he didn't just play her the song, did he? No, she worked it out, set numbers to the notes, made the connections. To simply say "God Did It" is to explicitly ignore every second of Kara's character development after her resurection.

  • July 30, 2010, 3:52 p.m. CST

    No paragraph breaks?

    by Norm

    I put them in, sorry about the format.

  • July 30, 2010, 4:34 p.m. CST

    BSG Ending, Take 2

    by Norm

    Okay, paragraph breaks for real this time. <p> Specifically in regards to them abandoning their ships and technology. As an engineer, I don't think they had any choice. Could any random group of 40,000 people rebuild our technological society? <p> Imagine you're on a cruise ship in the South Pacific when WWIII breaks out. The entire planet is nuked, and the only surviors are the few ships at sea. You all band together and spend 4 years hopping from worthless island to island, losing ships the entire time, until you finally come to a large beautiful island that can support everyone. The island is surrounded by large barrier reefs, so you anchor the ships and take rafts to shore. <p> You've been working in a dirty hot engine room for 4 years, and now you're standing on a beach. Everything you knew is gone. There's no internet, no TV, movies, radio. No electricity to run it. And no one to create content but yourselves. <p> Now you look back out at the rusting ships that are falling apart. Are you going to start building drydock facilities for them? With what? Do you know how to build a foundry, a steel mill, a power plant, an IC fab? Does anyone else who's still alive? <p> I can tell you how all the parts of an IC fab work, what they do, but I couldn't even begin to build one from scratch. And how much of that knowledge can you pass on before you die? There's no wikipedia. Do you pack a set of encyclopedias when you travel? <p> So there's an MRI machine in one ship's sick bay. How long will it keep working? Do you know how to fix it, do you even have spare parts? <p> And even more basic, if your entire civilization just nuked itself, do you even want to rebuild it? Remember, in BSG they found the first nuked Earth, with Cylons on it. Cylons had been created before, war broke out before, and it happened again. Keep all that technology around, and how long until it's nuclear war all over again? <p> On your new island home, are you going to celebrate the 4th of July? Do any of the old celebrations and holidays have any relevance anymore? Do you want to restart all the old political debates, start separating into liberal / conseravtive? Dem / GOP / teabagger? <p> Keeping the ships leads to your choice of post-apocolyptic nightmare worlds, where people cling desperately to fading technology they no longer know how to create, where the few men of intelligence are bent to building guns for the dictators, not a better world for all. <p> No, I think after 4 years on a cramped dirty rusting ship, to land at a new place with all the infrastructure and knowledge of technology lost, that starting over from scratch was the only possible choice to make. <p> <p> Finally, as for the last hour "God did it" nonsense... God didn't do it, Kara Thrace did. She was sent back by a higher power, yes. But she wasn't simply given a set of jump coordinates by God, wasn't simply told where Earth was. She had to deal with all of it, essentially alone. Had to make people believe her when they saw her die. Had to crawl torturously to the endpoint. <p> Was the Piano Player her subconscious or an Angel? If an Angel, he didn't just play her the song, did he? No, she worked it out, set numbers to the notes, made the connections. To simply say "God Did It" is to explicitly ignore every second of Kara's character development after her resurection. <p> Personally, I loved the series ending.

  • July 30, 2010, 9:21 p.m. CST

    If the cruise ship,

    by PRESIDENT BALTAR

    like the Battlestar Galactica did, has its own power supply and working lighting, heating, air conditioning, showers, baths, toilets, medical equipment, bedrooms, mattresses, refrigeration, stoves, microwaves, and drinking water, then YES, you would keep living on it, and, even if it didn't have power, you would keep living IN it, as a shelter from extreme heat, storms, rain, etc. and, if you are not in the tropics, from extreme cold, blizzards, tornados, hurricanes, etc...

  • July 30, 2010, 11:08 p.m. CST

    If you suspect that the active technology

    by chromedome

    might lead some cylons to you, you might think differently. Cylons found them once because of a nuclear blast. If the cylons are actively hunting them, and trying to follow the same clues, they might also be scanning for any kind of artificial signal. They might also have ways to track the base star, and they might have "signatures" for emissions from Galactica (just as submariners can identify specific ships and subs by their unique sounds).<p>Even if you said: well, let's mothball all of it, power it all down, keep it around "just in case" you might find that the majority don't want to take any chance of making some electronic noise ever, and sure don't want to let some guy in 1, 5, 10, 15 years decide to flip a switch without realizing/remembering the implications.<p> I agree it was kinduva rushed bit to that conclusion, but RDM lost a whole season's worth of episodes to tell the tale. Some things simply had to be touched upon, rather than elaborated and reasoned out to all of our satisfaction.

  • July 30, 2010, 11:31 p.m. CST

    And don't forget how many people

    by chromedome

    were so ready and willing to get off the ships and live in tents on New Caprica...

  • July 30, 2010, 11:47 p.m. CST

    I do agree

    by PRESIDENT BALTAR

    that I am basically just nitpicking, but, after all, that is pretty much what this site was established for.

  • July 31, 2010, 2:57 a.m. CST

    Yes, we are in Mighty Company here, Prez :-)

    by chromedome

  • July 31, 2010, 3:08 a.m. CST

    Mighty Company?! :-)

    by NoHubris

    Yes. That includes me. I'm here too.<p>Great point about New Caprica, chromedome. The fleet had wearied of the fight long before arriving on Earth.<p>And don't forget the lesson provided by the nuked Cylon Earth. Adama and co. clearly had that in mind when they discarded their technology.

  • July 31, 2010, 3:24 a.m. CST

    Piano Player WAS a cool character, Norm

    by NoHubris

    IMHO Piano Player and Kara were key in saving humanity which proves the Cylon god did not do it.

  • July 31, 2010, 10 a.m. CST

    Technology separated human and cylon

    by Norm

    One last point on this, because cylons can interface with technology, it gives them an advantage and separates them. The humans would never be able to fully trust them, never know that they wouldn't just turn off the life support some night. <p> But if cylons are breeding like humans and interbreeding, then without technology, everyone's the same. And after a few generations, no one will remember or care who's who. <p> I don't see that they had a choice, they had to break the cycle. <p> Now sure, maybe they did use the smaller landing crafts as shelters for a while, but those ships were cramped and overcrowded before the big ships were left in orbit. It wouldn't last, couldn't last.

  • Aug. 1, 2010, 10:43 a.m. CST

    "so you anchor the ships and take rafts to shore."

    by jim

    Then, continuing the analogy, once you hit the shore, you set the rafts adrift instead of keeping them to use at a later date.<p>I get the reasoning for not keeping technology, but I'd still want to keep stuff to make the transition from Colonial life to life on the run aboard a spaceship to living in the wilderness with nothing but the clothes on my back. First night it rains I think more than a few people might be rethinking the plan to not have kept simple items like tarps, storage containers, sheet metal, Viper canopies, etc. They lived in tents on New Caprica because half the fleet left. But at least they lived in tents. Did they keep so much as tents when they sent their ships into the Sun?

  • Aug. 1, 2010, 3:54 p.m. CST

    They chose to endure hard times

    by NoHubris

    It was the cost for breaking the "All this has happened before and will happen again" cycle.<p>Besides, if the Cylons pose another threat to humanity, the BSG finale kept the door open for Starbuck to return with another mystery Viper armed with unique technology.

  • Aug. 1, 2010, 4:27 p.m. CST

    I forgot about that, Huberto

    by chromedome

    good point.<p>As for keeping some items from the ships, I didn't see anything that ruled out them taking tents, other materials.... They didn't appear to give up clothing, shoes, for example.<p>I could imagine them keeping all available medications, for example, given the potential for exposure to germs they would not yet have immunity from. Clearly, lots of details remain untouched, but they are details. The grander idea was, very simply: they discovered our Earth at the early stages of human development, stayed, destroyed their ships (means not only that they could not be detected, but also that they could not leave). <p>Interesting consequences: how much and how often did they influence events after their arrival? How much, if any, of our history was affected by them, directly or indirectly? Presumably, the cylons among them lived longer, maybe had more influence.

  • Aug. 1, 2010, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Another "give up tech" thought

    by chromedome

    The very beginning of the series, as well as several points throughout, demonstrated Adama's suspicion of tech, particularly advanced computers and networks--wouldn't allow them on his ship. It was very hard, at one point, for him to accept cylon tech in order to save the Galactica.<p>So it wasn't something just pulled out of the hat at the end, to free themselves of the tech.<p>Plus, battle weary, travel weary, ship-fevered people throughout the fleet could easily be imagined ready to shed the ships forever--bad memories, and insurance against further cylon attacks. They had been so ready to live in tents on the barely hospitable New Caprica that Earth must have seemed like a paradise to them. Given all of the events and cirmstances that guided them there, the trials and tribulations they had to survive to complete the journey, and the sense of destiny and fulfilled prophesy they must have felt, it makes sense that they considered their journey complete, and could not even imagine re-boarding a ship and leaving.

  • Aug. 1, 2010, 7:45 p.m. CST

    Not to Cast Aspersions on Anyone...

    by cymbalta4thedevil

    But with the exception of PRESIDENT BALTAR, the people who "got" and enjoyed BSG's Series Finale seem much more thoughtful and intelligent than the Whiners who didn't. And much more perceptive & attuned to the story that RDM and crew were actually telling all along.<br /><br /> It's not just a matter of taste and opinion. You wonder if the Whiners were actually watching the same show you were. I wondered that also listening to people whine about LOST's final season. It's one thing to have your own take on something. But willfully and obstinately ignoring what's presented to you in favor of some idealized show that exists only in your own head is kind of pointless. THEY TOLD THE STORY THEY WANTED TO TELL. If it wasn't the story you wanted to tell, or have told to you: Tough Shit.

  • Aug. 2, 2010, 10:30 p.m. CST

    why thank you

    by PRESIDENT BALTAR

    thank you very much!