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Wait till you get a load of this Behind the Scenes Pic of the Day!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with today’s Behind the Scenes pic!
Keeping the Joker theme alive I’ve decided pop in a little pic of Jack Nicholson in the make-up chair for Tim Burton’s Batman. Make-up artist Nick Dudman applies Jack’s smile in this black and white pic. Notice the incredibly creepy Nicholson dummy head on the counter.
I think Heath Ledger has given us the definitive live action Joker performance (with Mark Hamill coming in as king of the vocal performances, of course), but I still love what Nicholson did with the character in Burton’s film. It’s a little silly, a lot sinister and that damn skin-tone make-up he wears when trying to look normal still creeps me out.
Plus, no matter how awesome Ledger was he didn’t have Prince to dance to. And that’s a fact, Jack.
Thanks again to William Forsche for finding this pic.
If you have a pic you think should be included email me. I’m looking for the iconic, the rare, the just plain cool behind the scenes shots to feature here.
The Joke’s not over yet. See you tomorrow for the next one!
-Quint
quint@aintitcool.com
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Previous Behind the Scenes pics:
- Alien
- Big Trouble In Little China
- Clash of the Titans
- Dr. Strangelove
- Sesame Street
- The Birds
- The Dark Knight
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+ Expand All
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He's at home! Washing his TIGHTS!
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Ooooo...oooop oooop ooop
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You gotta think of the context of what else was being produced at the time. It was a masterpiece in comparison to the rest of the dreck being churned out.
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Best pic by far!
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Well.. you should.. because it's .. umm. .. you'd like it. I think. It depends. That cement looks hard down there.
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....who try to make this talkback into a burton batman vs nolan batman need to be kicked in the balls. they both are what they are, deal with it.
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Great feature, Quint! Keep it up. Great job!!
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They sure are. They are very different and both work very well.
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But Heath made Nicholson's Joker look like amateur dramatics.
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Jacks just fell
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He was insane but also had a sense of humor, Ledger just acted like a crackhead.
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Why so serious?
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with the Joker which you started,dont have anything to do with helping indirectly the promotion of Nolan's Inception? just saying..
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i prefer Ledger's version.
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Nope, just like clowns. Got two more clown pics before I'm through.
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but I like it!
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That Burton was a glorified production designer.
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i take it back
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Today it looks as though it were done by some promising film student from a junior college (budget aside)
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Jul 14, 2010 4:10:16 PM CDT
Jack's Joker is way more rewatchable
by guy who got a headache and accidentally
Heath's gets repetitive and tiresome
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John Leguizamo from Spawn and Jerry Lewis from The Day the Clown Cried????
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I think I can remember like three lines of dialogue from the Nolan Batman films.
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Vin Disel from Breakin' with his fro' photoshopped red.
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is that in the end of the film both Jokers fall from a tall building to their doom.But here lies the most important difference between the two Batmen: Burton's Batman causes deliberately the death of Joker while Nolan's Batman saves Joker from falling to his death.the former is a cold-blood killer vigilante,the latter is a law abide vigilante with a moral code.
Different eras,different trends,different visions,different thinking? -
Keaton would hold up a blunt object and say "Do you wanna get nuts? Come on, let's get nuts!"
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"Come on, you gruesome son of a bitch! Come to me. Come on!"-Joker
AND... with all of Batman's weapons and technology... he can't hit him. Fucking great!
One of THE best comicbook moments on film. -
Nolan's Batman's are made with sequels in mind. I don't think Burton cared killing the Joker because sequels weren't really thought out. I'm guessing The Joker would be in the third Batman movie had Ledger not died.
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the coolest batmobil ever with second the batmobil from the animated series.
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That still cracks me up, 21 years later.
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....what did i tell you? you fucking dorks can't help yourselves. "jack was better" "burton sucks" "heath is awesome"
you chuckle heads realze that you couldn't have one with out the other don't you? piting them against each other is beyond stupid, and just goes to show how short sighted you are for doing it in the first place. -
Agreed. Jack was older and paunchy but a guy sitting in a room cutting out random pictures for no reason is pretty insane. Young anarchist with a plan(despite words to the contrary)doesn't seem too crazy. Dangerous for sure, but not insane. And at least in 1989 Burton had the balls to dunk Jack and say the whiteface was a chemical effect. Even though it still just looked like makeup. Excuse me, warpaint. Cool pic.
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who do you trust? Me I'm giving away free money. And where...is the Batman? He's at home, washing his tights!
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At the end when Joker says "I was just a kid when I killed your parents"....how the fuck did he know he was talking to Bruce Wayne? It's not like Jack hadn't been knocking guys off for the crime syndicate his whole life...so how did he know...HOW?! Answer...shitty writing.
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Was not done justice in either Batman Forever or The Dark Knight.
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Are great for what they are. Keaton, Nicholson, DeVito, Pfeifer and Walken... all hamming it up in two ridiculously stylish Batman movies... How can anybody hate on them I'll never know.
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wait wait wait, I thought he painted himself white. the first time we see him after his accident and surgery, his skin color is normal. then he kills Palance, sees the headline about Batman, and decides to create the character. then comes the facepaint. am I wrong?
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Arliss slowed it to a halt
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"skin tone make-up"...man, I guess I really missed that one. I remember him wiping his face with the handkerchief and it turning whit, but I thought that was just him applying the makeup with the handkerchief.
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and applied flesh-tone makeup. He was wiping said makeup off in that scene, exposing the white.
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Jack's Joker was already white faced and green-haired when he killed Palance's character, although if you haven't seen it in a long time, that's something that could be forgotten.
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break the surface of the water
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This is funny to me because I was 15 when BATMAN (1989) came out it was probably more OVERrated. I bought a shirt before seeing it which I never did before, I was hyped by the commercials for it with the Bat-Jet descending upon Gotham. Heck, Danny Elfman's soundtrack was the first movie soundtrack I purchased in my teenage life. When I walked out of the first screening, high on life, my brother and I thought it was the greatest movie ever and we aren't a couple of movie chuckleheads. Looking back, it’s a great TIM BURTON movie, but not a great BATMAN movie.
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bob..gun. *bang* funny
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...but ya never know
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..look like it was straight out of the 60's TV show. And back in 1989, everyone was saying how much like THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and other current "dark" Batman titles it was and how it was far from the TV series.
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Will always be the definitive summer movie experience to me. It delivered for its time. Elfman's score the art design, perfect. As much as I like Nolan's film I can't help but feel it skates into feeling like an episode of Law and Order that takes itself too seriously. But I think its great the kids love it.
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Don't go on about how Nolan's Batman is morally superior. Not with him letting Liam Neeson die on the the train. Totally irked me.
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.....is the prince soundtrack, without a doubt. check the lyrics from "the future":
"Yellow Smiley offers me X
Like he's drinking seven up
I would rather drink 6 razor blades
Razor blades from a paper cup
He can't understand, I say 2 tough
It's just that I've seen the future
And boy it's rough"
shit, prince had a better grasp on the character of batman than some guys who have writen the actual comic book over the years.
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is that every major character; Keaton's Batman, DeVito's Penguin, Pfieffer's Catwoman, are all mentally fucked up in one way or another. The moment when Wayne and Catwoman recognize each other while dancing together is a wonderful moment.BTW does Jack in the Joker makeup picture look a bit like Liberace? Must be the hair.
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are my numbah one....a-guyyy.....
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Were that every single fucking set LOOKED like a sound stage. I didn't buy for a second this Gotham was real. Nolan shot mostly in Chicago and because of that you can really believe in his Gotham. Let's be honest about this - Nolan's Batman films are far, far superior to Burton's films.
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Jul 14, 2010 5:04:28 PM CDT
"Have you shipped a million of those things?" "Yes sir." Ship 'e
by dickjones
Love the Burton flicks for what they were.
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It really does. The sequel does too. The belltower sequence looks like classic cinema.
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Right on, the dancing scene with Pfeiffer and Keaton is superb, a brilliant riff on duality.
10 years from now Nolan's Batman films will look ordinary and Burton's will be hailed as great cinema. Just you wait and see. -
Love the scene where he wipes out the mob and walks past Bruce Wayne. That movie was great.
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because it was too grounded in the real world. I said, "hey, Batman's in chicago" because it disn't look like Gotham. the movies were okay though i've never revisited them.
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"i rock the party, i rock the house..... i rock the whole world north, east and south. in the west 17 horns blowin"
"young and old gather 'round. eveybody hail the new king in town." -
BLAM
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Is Joker talking to the charred body of the gangster he just offed.
"Grease 'em now? Well, OK. You are a vicious bastard Rotelli, and, uh, I'm glad you're dead!"
Don't get me wrong, I worship TDK and think it's superior..but Batman sure has great lines and moments. My biggest turnoff being Batman trying to kill everything in sight. -
That is all!
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You heard me.
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and that's what a Batman movie should be, iconic. I could watch Batman dozens of times. The Nolan films? Maybe twice.
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They each made 2 Bat films that I loved the hell out of. Burton's haven't aged well for me, but they are still wonderful for the memories I have of opening night and all the anticipation. I agree w/ what a lot are saying about each version of Gotham City. Burton's had a wonderful look but it was always too obviously a soundstage. Sure Nolan's was really outdoors but it was just Chicago at night. I still envision a wonderful combinnation of both. As if Nolan's had gothic architectural flourishes digitally added in EVERYWHERE. And what a letdown Nolan's Arkham was . . .
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Jul 14, 2010 5:42:48 PM CDT
I do give Burton's Bat kudos for quotable lines
by bp_drills_america_a_new_asshole
That's probably the one area where Nolan's films sorely lack - quotable lines. A few examples of great lines from the 89 film: "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" "Batman! Batman! What kind of a world do we live in where a man dresses up as a bat?!" "Tell me, kid. Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?" All great lines.
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In a strange way it's a shame that Jack's performance came before Heath's, because you can now see Jack as the Joker after years of fighting Batman. Possibly would have been a great Joker for Dark Knight Returns.
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But Jack's Joker is laughable (not in a good way) at this point. And as far as the film goes, Joker's nefarious plot sucked then and it sucks now.
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http://tinyurl.com/2uds25z
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films is that Burton's Batman was more of a fantasy. Like an kind of Greek urban tragic fantasy. I still find it wildly entertaining, not only for the nostalgia, but, because it's a damn fine looking film about Batman. Nolan's was contemporary, and hyper-real and dramatic. Besides, there are decades between these two movies, so of course they will look and feel different. And the 'looks like a sound stage' argument; I think this is what gives Burton's Batman that sense of fantasy, and those sets were GORGEOUS!
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another man's rhubarb"
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I've always loved this movie, and not for the overt superheroic cheesiness, but, for the psychology and themes of all the main characters. Every character is dealing with a dual identity. One they show the world, and one that is the truth. I think, for me, and seeing Burton really put his person design stamp on it, makes it really enjoyable for me. It's great!
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Easy explanation: Batman tells Joker, "You killed my parents." Given that Batman is a grown man, Joker can reasonably deduce that he was... wait for it... a kid when he killed Batman's parents. He doesn't know that Bruce is Bats, just that according to Batman he murdered the guy's 'rents.
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The six year old version of me loved that line.
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Jul 14, 2010 6:19:57 PM CDT
My balloons. Those are my balloons. He stole my balloons!!!
by thejudger
Why didn't somebody tell me he had one of those... things?
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. . . is that downtown / town square set from Returns. It just SCREAMS, "We are, without a DOUBT, indoors."
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[Shoots Bob]
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It will never be the amazing that batman was on the night it came out in 1989. The music while flaying around th ebatsymbol the sharp cut to gotham city. Bruces parents getting killed with in the first 5 minutes. My dad took me I was 11. I knew very little about the frank miller take, I only saw the live action tv show and superfreinds. This movie owned me in a way no other movie would ever again. Even Jurrasic Park. We got two posters at the mall a few days A close up of the batwing flying through the city, and Batman standing in front of the batmobile with a black background behind them. I would see the movie 3 more times, and get it on vhs that christmas. That was batman for me. I know some of the older people Harry and Drews age didnt like it as much, but man. Fuck i still remember the damn coke commercail. That movie fucking owned 89, set box office records as well.
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...just for the Pfeiffer alone. That scene where she's on the Penguin's bed, and the scene where she lick's Batman's lips under the mistletoe...man oh man. I was 11 when I saw it, and still one of the hottest things I've ever seen.
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Life's been good to me...
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Is that Chicago is a little too...Chicago. I was waiting for The Batpod to race by Richard Kimble outside Cook County. Christ, one of the douchey cops from the Fugitive was even in TDK (the crooked cop Two-Face shoots in the bar)! Granted, a lot of the Gotham shots from 1989's Batman were clearly miniatures, but that opening shot though, was so decayed and claustrophobic and urban sprawl gone haywire that I was sucked in.
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There are literally only three lines in the Nolan films that hold classic value - "Swear to me!!!!" and "Do I look like a cop???" and Heath's "Hi.... we need to talk."
For my money, Batman and Batman Returns are outrageously superior to Nolan's films in terms of the script. Movies with that quality dialogue just aren't made anymore and it's a damn shame. When Nolan crafts his dialogue with the same care that he takes to his set pieces and "vibe," he'll be able to make true masterpieces. The Dark Knight is great, don't get me wrong, and amply proves why Batman is the best comic hero for cinema... but this talkback proves that you can basically have the '89 Batman experience just by reading through the script. The script is THAT good- it's something that conceptually just stands the test of time. Line for line, the Burton films obliterate Nolan's..... all that said, Burton lost his touch YEAAAAAARS ago and would never even remotely be able to recreate the genius of Scissorhands/Beetlejuice/Batmans. I appreciate Nolan's films, but I really can't imagine anyone remembering them with the genuine warmth that instantly comes to mind when any line from '89 is referenced. I liked the Hong Kong scene and Heath's joker too... but they won't keep me warm at night. -
Money Money Money!Who do ya love?!
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damn that video clip he made for the movie was godawful but I promise myself to watch everything inside the batman DVD box set even B Forever and B&R.
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I didn't like the animated little Batman on the rooftop, and I've read that is the one thing that Burton hated about the movie.
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Phonebook?
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behind his white was ... A MOUSTACHE! But he had a great laugh -
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(yes i'm old)...and I hated the nefarious plot (weak) and the dance routine (filler) then, just as much as I hate it now. I appreciated the dark tone, but the rest was shite.
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Hope one of those is from It!
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im batman....... :D
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and his reading of the line, " I believe whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger." is pretty damn cool.
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and it is.. BATMAN...!
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For his portrayal of the Joker!
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That'd be pretty sweet.
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And I'm gonna clean my claws.
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Batman's head on a lance.
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And Heath actually won one.
I think if Heath had had better writing, this wouldn't be a contest. Heath's Joker owns, but Jack's Joker got all the good lines. That "simply makes you... stranger" line really isn't all that good. Heath's Joker could have been a villain in Saw. Jack's could only be the Joker. -
because Jack would find it too funny
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Collectively his performance as whole was iconic as apposed to Nicholson's classic one liner's (which i love by the way)If you prefer Jack's Joker you pretty much prefer Jack the actor since so much of himself was displayed in the character. Ledger on the other hand seems much more of an original creation of his and Nolan. From the creepy voice to the lip licking mannerism to the scar origins to his anarchic motivations with just enough dark humor in between- everything about his portrayal was legendary and well deserved of the oscar. My favorite screen villain of all time.
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Um, shitty writing? Did you miss the part where Batman says "Have you ever danced with the devil" back to the Joker? That was Batman telling him that he was Bruce Wayne. And the Joker knew he killed Bruce Wayne's parents. Its not that hard to figure out. Shitty writing? No. And Jacks Joker was better.
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I agree re: Jack was Jack, but in a way it's more than that... it's almost like all of Jack's schtick had been leading up to that role. His entire career was solidified in that role- it colors everything he ever did. After that performance, Jack was basically "heeeere's Johnny" and The Joker. It was a massive investment of his personal character - and caused the rest of his career to be a reaction to his iconic turn as the Joker. I think this is one area where you really have to leave the word "better" out of the equation - these are both absolutely defining turns for two extremely classic actors. Played to perfection, given who the players were, and what the vision for the film was. Having the character played so perfectly, twice, in such different ways, only solidifies The Joker as the undisputed villain of modern cinema. It's really amazing. Not even the classic monsters have been played twice with such astounding iconoclastic passion.
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the '89 batman was the first of its kind. the first real comic book movie come to life in a "serious" way. and in its time was brilliant. (but not perfect)The script gave all the great lines to Jack and gave all the shitty lines to Kim and Wahl's characters. Plus Converse came out with it Bat sneaker and joker sneaker as cross promotion. what didn't they cross promote with?
Nolan's Batman was cool, gritty, more grounded in reality but lacking in flair (quotable lines). TDK made up for the quotable lines with Heath's joker. but wtf? you OD with the olsen twins? bummer -
since it was the strongest movie I've ever received on vhs being that I was 4 or 5 when the movie came out.... I'll tell all you guys this, We've been alive long enough to have a Burton's 89 Batman and Nolan's Batman. Two very different kickhiney Batman movies. Life is good. thanks, Quint, for the greatttt pic!
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jack held back the crazy until he was painted white. A+ for jack's Joker
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Fuck Batman 89. A terrible movie.
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Nolan's BATS had less quotable lines because it was grounded in real life. How many quotable lines do you hear day in/day out in reality?
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Nicholson was a terrible Joker.
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Far too long, and fucking dull. Burton is a lousy action director and it really shows here. The Joker takes a giant gun out of his pants and shoots down the Batwing? Fuck that!
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Exactly.
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Batman 89 was dog shit. Batman 89 could have been directed by Cameron and had you on the edge of your seat. 2 years earlier I had seen aliens and dune 3 years before that. I wanted Superman VS Batman for the 3rd superman film instead of Richard Pryor. You could have had the production designer and costume designer from dune making it back then. We got a non-athletic, 5 foot 8 batman in a movie so boring and stupid that it opens with batman being shot point blank in the chest. Boom,plop he's dead. He didn't flip up the wall out of the way? Tim Burton hated batman so much he killed the joker. He killed Spector to Bond. It was a travesty at every level. Batman couldn't even turn his fucking head and looked around corners with his shoulders. It was flaming dog shit with a toilet plunger chaser
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...I find that I am incredibly not interested in these "Behind the Scenes" pictures. I am sure that most of the readers enjoy them immensely so you must keep posting them, but when I come to Ain't it Cool, I come for breaking news, and not photographs from yesteryear.
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I preferred Heath-Joker when he was called Beetlejuice. Hamill-Joker for life.
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.. on a talkback about a movie they dont like / aren't interested in... ^^
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That is the correct order if I'm being totally honest. Never saw much of Romero's take but as long as he never had a scene where he danced to fucking Prince music and he stayed in shape he beats Jack too.
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hypermarketing experiment in movies. Even the "soundtrack" that came out was an exercise in hype, it was a collection of Prince songs. In the end, however, cool heads prevailed and the Prince vinyl got replaced by the real Elfman score album in the music bins. And we got Batman Returns, which is still my favorite.
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I haven't seen Burton's Batman in like...18 years? I don't even remember anything other than Joker dies at the end. :S
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In Batman 1989 Joker is poisoning Gotham with Smylex which paralyzes the face into that Joker rictus grin.
In The Dark Knight, Joker is making some kind of point about humanity to everyone in Gotham cuz he's all butt-hurt about his daddy or something.
Jack's joker was truer. Especially if you have read many Batman comics (e.g. The Laughing Fish). -
King of the Wicker People"
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Jul 14, 2010 10:41:49 PM CDT
Now comes the part where I relieve you, the little people, of th
by tikidonkeypunch
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"Is Batman on the City payroll? And if so, what's he pulling down, after taxes"
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Joker needs to be a crazy fuck and that means no agenda aside from amusing himself.
They both had great moments though. My favourite Ledger Joker moment is when he gives a little chuckle as he's apparently plunging to his death. -
http://www.fanboyplanet.com/interviews/images/binky.jpg
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Arliss wasn't that bad..
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Joker cards bubbling up in chemical vat > Joker cards falling down around exploded car.
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Jul 14, 2010 10:52:31 PM CDT
The '89 Batman is one of the ugliest-looking films ever made
by margot_tenenbaum
It's also got that irritating performance by Robert Wuhl, a fortysomething Batman, Kim Fucking Basinger and a shoehorned-in Prince at his almost-nadir.
Nicholson is alright because he's pretty much making his own movie while Burton mopes around with his hair in his eyes. -
Nolan: what if Batman existed in the real world? Burton: translate comic book fantasy to movie fantasy. Nothing in Batman 89 is supposed to look real, it's supposed to look fantastic. Warren Beatty proceeded to do Dick Tracy the same way, even more stylized and artificial. Remember the only things people people then could compare Batman 89 to was the comics, TV cartoons, and Adam West. Gotham City is a fully living character in the comics and most certainly in Miller's Dark Knight Returns, and Burton certainly follows suit. In Nolan's Dark Knight, Gotham is just the name used to fictionalize the real city they happened to film in.
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I think the theater in the movie had the Footlight Frenzy poster both when Wayne's parents were shot and in the present day.
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As stated by Nem_Wan, you use sets and miniatures when it's 1989 and you want to create a fantastical place. I love the Anton Furst designed Gotham city... the fact there's no place really like that is what makes it so great.
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batman 89 = jack doing crazy.
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Not that it was a bad thing. I enjoyed the film at the time. It is what it is. But Nolan's Batman Begins is how the first Batman movie should have started. That is the definitive origin story in my mind.
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Just to comment on Hamill.....but the guy whom did the voice of the Joker in the upcoming "Under the Red Hood" DTV movie did a FANTASTIC job. totally maniacal! John DiMaggio I think his name is.
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Shit. I guess I'll have to check it out afterall.
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And that just ain't right.
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I saw Batman '89 opening night. When Batman cuts the Joker's balloons, then flies up above Gotham, breaking through the clouds to impose the silhouette of the Batwing over the moon, there was cheering. An honest to goodness standing ovation. And I was part of it. Nicholson's Joker had some great lines. No doubt about that. Way funnier, more memorable, than almost anything Ledger did. Except the pencil trick. And Nurse Joker. And the I Believe In Harvey Dent campaign button. And his final lines. But that's because the character wasn't a showcase for semi-corny one-liners delivered with panache by a showman playing up his own personality. Ledger's Joker drove the story. The story in Batman '89, like virtually every other Burton movie, was secondary to Art Direction and funny lines. Nicholson's Joker does still rate as one of the great star turns of all time by a movie star. Ledger's rates as a brilliant actor creating a truly haunting character. Both are entertaining in their own ways.By the way, Keaton's Batman kills a warehouse full of thugs using explosives, smashes one guy in the head with a wrought-iron bell and lets him fall into the cathedral below, and basically murders the Joker by tying a heavy gargoyle statue to his legs. Much worse than refusing to save one man who's cheated death once already.I love these pictures. Keep 'em up.
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Why didn't someone tell me he had one of those...things?This film is like an old friend - you have to visit it once in a while to see if it's still alright. And it generally is!
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The Burton movies were more about the characters. The Nolan movies are more about the Batman World.
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Jack is a classic Joker.
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And whys that a problem exactly, at least he wasnt moping around about redemption like Bale did, younger doesn't equal better, Nolan picked Bale because of his turn in American Psycho which just goes to show how wrong he was since Patfick Bateman is very far away from Bruce Wayne, sure they both have their masks while in the suit but for very different purposes which shows through. Bale has a weird detachment in him as Bruce who should never have that, at least Keaton played him as a regular shmoe that we can sympathize with better.
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Each director kind of was in tune with a different comic era anyone notice? Burton had the combo of serious and outlandish of the 40s, Shumacker was just outlandish and colorful like the 50s/60s when the comic code softened the violence while Nolan was all about the grittyness of the Miller and graphic novel era.
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I love how so many folks like to trash B-89, as though it just came out this year. If you were old enough to have any sense at the time (I was 18), you damn well know there had been nothing like it before, when it came to putting a comic book on a big-budget screen. Superman was the only decent genre event up until then. I will agree it's not a perfect film, hell I said the very same thing opening day... and I saw B-89 three times that day. Wearing my fucking Converse Batshoes.
I still enjoy watching that version today. But it didn't stop me from liking Nolan's films. I don't recall if it's been said in this TB, but anyone who reads comics can pretty easily understand how a character can come out looking/acting very different, depending on the artist/writing team handling the book at any given time. Burton and Nolan deliver two different visions of the same character. You might personally enjoy one more than the other, but that doesn't mean your pick is somehow magically better. Hell, you might as well spend valuable time telling us how lame Adam West was. I mean, nobody ever like that crappy 60s version, right? 'Cause it was made back then, and it was lame, and blah blah blah bullshit.
My long-winded point is, love what you love, but don't be so full of your own crap as to think your version of anything is "the best". Because in another 20 years, TBers will be arguing about how Joel Haley Osmet's turn as the Joker is so much better than that awful performance Ledger did in those lousy Nolan movies.
And who do I like better, Heath or Jack? Yes. -
Say what you like about the Nolanverse, it ain't as damn quotable as Burton's BATMAN: I'm of a mind to make some mookie / I'm gonna need a minute or two alone, boys / I have no wish to fill my few remaining years grieving for the loss of old friends. Or their sons / Never rub another man's rhubarb.
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Jul 15, 2010 3:10:17 AM CDT
BATMAN BEGINS made me forget about the Burton's batmovies
by asimovlives
I don't dislike Burton's Batman movie,s and i have affection for BATMAN RETURNS, but i find them pretty flawed and too circus-type and clownish, specially the first (big d'uhh there!). I don't hate them, i like the visual artistry that went there, Danny Elfman's theme is infinitly hummable and memorable, but i woulnd't worry if i never rewatched them ever again.
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And yet my favorite Jpoker's joke came from THE DARK KNIGHT: the disappearing pensil. I think Joker's jokes in TDK are more in tune to the character, more dark sarcasm served with ultra-violence then just a whole lot of smart-ass quips from Burton's version. And the Joker was never supposed to be a fat guy, was he?When they hired Jack Nicholson, that was a stunt casting (he evne gets top billing). When they cast Heath Ledger for TDK, the majority of the opinions was it was a mistake and he would never pull it off, it was too daring and many made Brokenback Mountain jokes about it, people where skeptical like hell. In burton's movie, Nicholson was a sure thing stunt casting, with ledger it wa sa daring visionary casting decision that only the filmmakers knew it was going to work. Thus, i respect TDK's joker version far more for all reasons involved.
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Hardly a day goes by without me quoting Batman 89.
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Who do ya? Trust. What makes you a real lover? Trust. I put this question to you cuz I want you to be with me.
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Hey bat-brain, i mean, i was a kid when i killed your parents, i mean i say i made you, you gotta say you made me, i mean how childish can you get huh? You wouldn't hit a guy with glasses on, would you huh?
BIFF!!! -
It's pretty obvious. He did the voice better. He portrayed Bruce Wayne's pain and brooding more convincingly. Bale did a great job sure but Keaton will always be the definitive Batman. Kevin Conroy gets honorable mention as he is still the best voice of Batman, though it's not much of a contest as all the subsequent Batman voice actors suck!!!
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I think Jack brought more levels to the character. While Heath was definitely more menacing and psychopathic (which is mostly the way the joker was depicted in the last-say-20 years), Jack took in ALL aspects of the character (ruthless gangster, trickster, clown, killer, prankster etc) and ran with them, without losing a certain reality in all the campyness. So I still prefer his performance. HOWEVER, Nolan concentrated on the Joker as psychopathic killer and Heath delivered an awesome performance portraying said psycho (just not so layered).
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Yes, the Burtoin's Batmobille was cool... the one that couldn't turn corners! Greak fucking crime fighting machine, that one was!!
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Too bad it can't negotiate speed bumps.
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it goes past through the buildings.haha.
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What the hell happened to Michael Keaton???
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... when Batman has the shit beaten out of him and have his ass handled to him by a fat rapper in the belltower scene. That shit is too funny for words! To this day that shit still brings tears to my eyes from laughter.
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He got filthy rich from the Batman movies and stopped worrying and started enjoying life and only makes the movies he cares to be arsed about, if he can be bothered to.
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Sometimes, yes. But Nolan's batmobille does turn corners, and can do that at speed. nolan's Batman movies Tumbler is an actual car that can actually be driven about, instead of the Burton's batmobille which was just a dressed up dragrace car and only look good in the photos but had no praticability whatsoever even for the filmming of the movie, and everytime it is shown doing something almost like a car, it's a special effect involving miniatures or clever editing.
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They are completely different takes on the character. Therefore, I think both can be "Definitive".
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Heath and Jack are both brilliant and both played the character in two totally different ways that worked within their individual films. Problem solved.
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Had Better Bat Fights
The stand off in the Alley with Vickie Vale taking pics from the roof. My favorite part is when the first thug breaks out a pair off swords and goes all crazy with them and Bats steps into the guys chest with a thrust kick from hell then steps back like "Whut? I'm Bat man bitch!"
The Bell tower fight at the end was classic Batman. He's Fighting the one oversized goon while the Joker dances with Vickie Vale and terrorizing the crap out of her at the same time. Bats gets his ass kicked for the duration of that fight until he uses his surroundings and the shadows to take him out.
Every fight scene in Nolan's Batman was shot up close and you couldn't see all the action and were not nearly as memorable. -
Now there's where the real strength of Burton's Batman films shine through, he had two of the greatest scores of the modern era. Nolan's Batman films have had droning crap that could've been done in about ten minutes in a computer.
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films, I just would rather re-watch the Burton ones. It's too bad they can't make a Batman film that mixes some of the operatic charm of the Burton films with the grittiness of the Nolan films. I actually thought Batman Begins did a preaty decent job of this, but then Dark Knight though good, was just Batman in the real world, which is fine, but not really Batman.
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Its more fun and has more of Nolan's signature time-bending editing/narrative.
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Inspiration came from the Killing Joke Graphic Novel Drawn by a favorite of mine Brian Bolland. Which is why the film looked like a live action comic book.
Nolan's is inspired loosely by the movie Heat which gives it a greater since of realism. Two entirely different takes on an iconic character, Both are awesome in they're own right. -
is the sexiest car ever designed.
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... Studying which cars I'd need to buy to give those front wheels that signature curved look.
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I'm so shocked! At least we had a hot pre-botox Kidman to stare at in Batman Forever!
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Can rock a party like nobody can.
And I wanted to fuck Basinger's Vicki Vale. I'm sure I rubbed it out to her a few times in '89 -
wearing your black and yellow 89 batman t-shirt before it completely faded and deteriorated?
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He had Night Shift, then Mr Mom and Gung-Ho. Then he became HUGE with Batman. After that, he had a few here and there...Pacific Heights, Clean and Sober, Multiplicity (a must-see with Andy McDowell in panties and Keaton playing a retard)...
Today, Keaton is the voice of Ken in Toy Story 3, and by the sound of it he had a lot of fun with it. FYI Michael Keaton's real name is...Michael Douglas. He changed it for obvious reasons -
I have a huge poster of Keaton as Batman from '89. Had it on my dorm room wall.
Cut 19 years later, I still have the poster...because it's on my 6 yr old son's wall. Yes, I'm awesome. And so is Mini-Abom -
That was his name, right?
And Adam West still holds a special place in my crime-fighting heart, good citizens -
down a flight of stairs.
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Before Adam West kicks the bucket. He'd do some awesome extras I'm sure.
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I think you're kind of selling Nolan short. His Batman movies are inspired more by The Long Halloween, Year One and The Killing Joke than Heat. Hell Nolan is more inspired by the Batman comics than Burton.But I agree there are elements of Heat as well.
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That shit is hysterical!!!!! Yeah, what a great fucking Batman, getting his ass handled to him by a fat rapper!!! FOR FUCK'S SAKES!!!
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I could see them. More enjoyable that way.
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Because he's black and wears sunglasses at night? For shame, Asi.
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Jul 15, 2010 9:40:47 AM CDT
I think i understand you hyper-supporters of Burton's Batman
by asimovlives
It's that attitude of going against the grain, going against the norm, going agaisnt the man, going against the popular and affirm your rebeliousness against... well, in this case, against total cinematic quality. I get you guys, you want to be seen as being radicals, street, in the kool! Good for you.
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It's not my fault that rappers turn themselves into walking clichés, is it?
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... and i wished i couldn't, i wish it had been shot in extreme shaky-o-cam, to spare me the embaracement of having to see Batboy getting his ass kicked by an overweighted cliché rapper hoodie.
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... you could clearly see they had to be made in the editing room because the poor actor couldn't move inside that fucking bubber suit. The suit was so bad, you could even see the rubber joints from the moulding. It was pathetic. That batman could barely movie, small wonder he got his ass kicked by a slow moving fat boy.
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amazed at his transformation, realized the guy could act.
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I found Michelle Pfeiffer's performance as Catwoman really haunting and heartbreaking.
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You mean like acting like the new Star Trek is the worst thing since cancer.
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grain, they would declare Batman and Robin as a true masterwork in the vein of The Rules of the Game and The Godfather.
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Armond White
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Going against the gain about SHIT TREK is incidental and mere coincidence. That movie is truly shitty, a stupid dumb fucking movie whihc, for mysterious reason, got popular among the geekry and critics who should fucking know better. I wish i didn't had to go against the grain about SHIT TREK, that the fucking piece of shit had never been popular.
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Do you like your Joker to sound like a child-molesting uncle, effeminent and melodramatcic? Then this joker is for you. Sorry but the Joker is not a 55 year old ex-thespian as his voice in TAS suggests.. How could that be the best Joker?!?! "Hey Batsy!" not even remotely frightening! I HATE IT
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You are a fucking assclown. The movie was great. Go fuck yourself.
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But it was entertaining. Something about 98% of trek post TNG series has lacked.
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I plan to blind-buy it on blu-ray if I see it for $20 or less.
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terrible. I guess you have to chock it up with a man in a rubber suit fighting actors like frail Heath Ledger and Danny Devito. The character confrontations leading up to the fights are what work extremely well in both the Burton movies and the Nolan ones.
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at the time when it came out it was much darker than a mainstream movie had previously been. even Adam West commented how he didn't like its darkness. now of course Nolan makes Burton's seem like camp. but the early idea of the batsuit & even some of the tone got carried through all the way to Nolan. audiences have evolved. people accept a much higher level of realism and menace in comic movies than they did in 1989. so credit Burton for what he did, though Nolan's is superior.
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Thank the gods for Christopher Nolan.
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Goth camp. It was TERRIBLE. I remember being super excited for it when it was about to come out, it being hyped as the "dark, gritty" Batman then going to see it and being shocked that it was basically a Gothed up version of the 60s tv show. TERRIBLE.
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How can something souless be entertaining?
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Why the fuck would i care what you think of that retard piece of shit movie?
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... that had not been seen before in movies or TV. The darker Batman tone was more of a comic thing, that's for sure. But i don't think that Nolan's dark tone for his Batman movies is a continuation of Burton's but more a counter-reaction to Schumaker's glam-rock neon tinted Batmovies, and also a return and hommage to the spirit and mood of the earlier Batman comics.
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But unlike most other Trek, there isn't much intellect to it. Kind of like a highly entertaining break dancing robot.
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Many of Jack's are listed by other TB'ers above but one of my favorite scenes in TDK is immediately after Ledger's Joker stands in the road and Bats swerves the Batpod to just avoid hitting him and then Joker turns around and cynically frowns while sort of skipping back to where Bats crashed/stopped. A henchmen goes to pull Bat's mask off and gets shocked leading Ledger's Joker to laugh and mock and eventually spit on said henchman. Ledger's Joker then pops a switchblade and kneels down to do something (use the blade to cut the mask or remove it, presumably) but just then Gordon pushes the barrel of a shotgun against the back of Joker's head and the Joker, without missing a beat, says, "Ehhyah! Could you please just give me a minute?"I love that scene! (a truly great mini-epilogue to a brilliant action set-piece) I also dearly love his speech to Harvey in the Hospital, "I'm an agent of Chaos. And you know the thing aboug chaos? It's FAIR."Yes, Jack's Joker has some truly great one-liners but I find more cinematic satisfaction from the lines spoken by Ledger's Joker. Every line Ledger's Joker utters just adds to the mystique of that character. Absolutely my all-time favorite movie villain!But yes...it's kinda pointless to try and find a better Bat..Burton's or Nolan's...I like living in a world with both even though I do personally have a favorite of the two.Altho, there is no question that Burton's female casting is/was infinitely superior to Nolan's (Maggie Gyllenhall, really? Who, besides her parents, think she's actually beautiful? Katie Homes is much hotter than Maggie Gyllenhall but they're nothing compared to Michelle Pfiefer or Kim Bassinger both in looks and, to an extent, talent as well)
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I don't find terrible dialogue, bad characterization based on the oldest clichés known to mankind and plots totally dependent on impossible contrieved coincidences to be much source of entertaiment. And then there's the brewry engine room and the lens flares as bad punchlines. The last thing that crosses me mind when i think of SHIT TREK is entertaiment. Soul sucking depression more like it.
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No, i won't.
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Wait, what now? If there's one thing all the Batman films have in common, it's that the fight scenes are poorly lit clusterfucks... except for Shumacher's movies... which were brightly lit clusterfucks. Luckily, I don't judge movies on fight scenes alone.
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Ledger was playing Pitt from Twelve Monkeys. Same twitches and ticks, same anarchy plan, just in white face paint.
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for OWNING those tights just like hte comics while the others had to melt tires in the bat guano cave and form the chub part. "Alfred, make me a batsuit cast and here measure my chub so it will fit ok?"
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When he's in the nightclub when a goon grabs him in a lock and he does a split kick taking out two guards during this and Riddler and Two Face are in the background giving commentary.
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I always loved the alley fight in the 89 Batman, or at least Batman vs the last goon with the two swords, finishing him with the kick to the face. I guess as long as any cinematic Batman is encased in rubber, the moves will be so-so no matter what style.
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"Melting tires in the bat guano cave to fit my chub." HILARIOUS.
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I agree with previous postings that Prince understood the duality of Batman/Bruce Wayne better than just about anyone. Witness the lyrics to "Vicki Waiting": "Talk of children still frightens me, is my character enough 2 be one that deserves a copy made? This I one day I hope 2 see." I know a lot of people slam on it, but I thought that this album was one of his better ones of that era. Give me that one over "Graffiti Bridge" any day.
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are all great. End of debate.
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Jul 15, 2010 10:19:46 PM CDT
Yeah, bullshit to say only Jack's Joker has the best lines
by tall_boy66
my favourite, less quoted ones, "Never rub another man's Rhubarb" from Nicolson and "Never start with the head, the victim gets all...fuzy...See?" from Ledger.
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Jul 15, 2010 10:21:48 PM CDT
"Well, depending on the time he could be one place or several"
by tall_boy66
Burton's Joker has as many good lines as Nolan's Joker does. You could frankly do it all day. They're both great performances. Dark Knight is a better movie, but Burton's first Batman isn't a bad movie at all. Just kind of flawed for little things that drive me nuts. Batman Returns is a way better Burton Bat-flick. It's my #3 Bat movie. (#2 - Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, #1 - Dark Knight)
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The catwoman material could have imploded the movie with a lesser actress. Michelle Pfeiffer can do Brainy, Creepy, Sexy . . ya she's good. Who would have expected as much from the female lead of Grease 2.
I think that Burton's second Batman was a great improvement on the his 1st & the best before Nolan's work. Thinking about it now... I find the performances in Batman Returns more memorable than anything in Nolan's 1st bat film, although I prefer the tone of Nolan's films. -
he needs to be out there making films again.
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Jul 16, 2010 3:43:21 PM CDT
I'd like to eat fried ice cream off Pfeiffer's asshole
by takingscorpioscalls
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It's the most quotable superhero movie of all time, hands down.
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"Your weapons have no effect on me."
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nice picture, anyway!
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Even now, I prefer it. Everything from the music to the lines makes it better for me. Been to Chicago too many times, so Nolan's films have as bad of sets in my mind.
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Entertainment tonight. They showed the bit where Batman grabs that hood.
" I'm Batman". I was blown away. The suit design was awesome and all the controversy about Michael Keaton as Batman was gone in one second. -
then that one and lots more are at http://www.batmanmovieonline.com/gallery.php?cat=1
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it's just what I heard.
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Nolan made two movies with absolutely no visual flair. Burton re-invented Batman as a caped hero in a Gothic Gotham. Nolan shot it in downtown Chicago. Replace his Batman's costume with a suit and he could have been Bruce Willis in Diehard. Burton's was pure artwork. Nolan stole everything he could from Burton's Batman, from the costume to Bale's gravelly voice. Ledger's performance was waaaaay overrated. And the music scores? Seriously? Listen to Danny Elfman's score again, and tell me that isn't Batman's theme song! Seriously, listen to the score, and you'll see there's no comparison:
http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Original-Motion-Picture-Score/dp/B000002LIM
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