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Mr. Beaks Reviews INCEPTION!
SPOILER ALERT !!
INCEPTION is Christopher Nolan's reward for a commercial assignment profitably executed: the opportunity to realize on a grand scale an idea that has intrigued him for the better part of a decade. In the studio tit-for-tat equation, this is the "one for me". It's the reason you start making movies in the first place. It's LAWRENCE OF ARABIA. APOCALYPSE NOW. GANGS OF NEW YORK. It's the the movie you stake your career on. It's the movie you make now.
For most filmmakers, this project is a gamble; for Christopher Nolan, it's a shrewdly calculated risk. Though the narrative speeds ahead like a rapidly unfolding lucid dream, INCEPTION uses the familiar vernacular of the heist film to keep less attentive audiences engaged. Unlike other films that traipse across the boundless landscape of the unconscious mind, it's not a take-it-or-leave-it proposition. The central concept is simple: plant an idea in a character's mind in order to manipulate them into behaving in the best interest of a rival party. The particulars may be complex, but there's an emotional logic that drives the story forward. There are also wildly compelling action set pieces. In this regard, INCEPTION is a miracle: a multi-layered meditation on the unruly clutter of the subconscious that works sensationally well as a classical action film. It plays brilliantly on every conceivable level.
Nolan's very few detractors have often knocked him for coldly constructing narratives that snap together like traps. His gift for precision is used against him: he's all brains, no heart. This is a concern of personal preference, I suppose, and generally cited by people who've likely never known the icy splendor of a Dashiell Hammett tome. Regardless, it won't be an issue with INCEPTION, which is built around one man's quest to see his children's faces again. And while Leonardo DiCaprio has never been the warmest of movie stars, he's believably devastated as Dom Cobb, a highly sought after agent of corporate espionage whose facility for navigating dreams has come at an awful price.
It comes as no surprise that lucid dreaming is of particular interest to Nolan (it stands to reason that a control-freak storyteller would be fascinated by the idea of manipulating his unconscious thoughts), but while he goes to great lengths to explain the rules of dream theft, he stays pleasingly vague on the scientific details of entering another person's mind. This isn't a cheat. From the beginning, where we meet Cobb and his point man Arthur (Joseph Gordon-Levitt) completing their latest gig, the emphasis is on the obtainment of information (and its attendant perils), not the technology that makes such theft possible. And this works because Nolan has cut the whole film as if it takes place in a waking dream. It's an ideal use of cinematic language: the mundane details of traveling and arriving are elided in order to keep the dense story skipping along.
Before Cobb can move forward with the mission that might wipe the slate clean and return him what remains of his family, he must enlist the assistance of a brilliant young architect (Ellen Page), who possesses the ability to create elaborate cityscapes that defy logic and trick the mind (M.C. Escher is leaned on heavily here). She's the audience surrogate to whom Cobb breaks down the do's and don'ts of dream exploration - one key concept being the potentially adversarial nature of another dreamer's "projections". And then there's Mal (Marion Cotillard), Cobb's persistent and pernicious manifestation of the woman with whom he ill-advisedly disappeared into an elaborate, jointly-created world. Mal is the one element of Cobb's memory that he cannot control; the lost love forever threatening to blow up the gig and keep him from seeing his children again.
For a film that's clearly sprung from the deepest reaches of Nolan's creative mind, INCEPTION is appropriately enhanced by his boyhood preoccupation with James Bond movies (he admitted as much in a recent interview). During the deliriously intricate set piece which encompasses a good deal of the second act and some of the third, Nolan gets to pay ecstatic homage to ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE - as Hans Zimmer's score takes on lovely, invigorating John Barry dimensions. For all Nolan accomplishes as a storyteller with INCEPTION, what he pulls off with this extended sequence will be broken down and studied for years to come; this is probably giving too much away, but if you can think of a filmmaker who's deftly managed four globetrotting layers of interrelating action stretching across increasingly precarious levels of unconsciousness, then I'll back down from calling Nolan's achievement one of the greatest action set pieces ever put to film.
Based on one viewing, I'm not ready to break INCEPTION down with any degree of assuredness. But I want to. God, how I want to. I haven't been this obsessed with a film since PRIMER, which I watched somewhere in the neighborhood of four times before hazarding a review (and ultimately calling it the fourteenth best film of the last decade). What's most exciting about INCEPTION is that it finds Nolan peaking as a visual artist; he's using the extravagantly cinematic tropes of other genres to connect with the viewer intellectually. With INCEPTION, Nolan joins the company of Coppola, Lean and not too many others as a filmmaker who treats the big canvas with the respect it deserves - but with the steely verve of a chess player who can see dozens of moves ahead.
Pure cinema at its best feels like dreaming with your eyes wide open. Cinema doesn't get much purer than INCEPTION.
Faithfully submitted,
Mr. Beaks
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don't want no spoilerige
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Won't read it. I know too much already.
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...a weekend of "Twilight" and "Last Airbender" would be a dream come true.
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MIDNIGHT SHOWING! And hopefully unlike the Dark Knight the projector wont crap out twice during the film.
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sorry, this blockbuster is going to be too high borw for the majority of its core audience.
the producers might think that means they will go and see it twice,
i very much doubt thats the case. -
This pleases me greatly, looking forward to seeing this even more now
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the only movie i'm really looking forward to this summer. can't wait.
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Thank God.
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About time an original idea got the ok to own this lame movie yr.
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Im hoping it does indeed exceed expectations.
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Im hoping it does indeed exceed expectations.
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didn't read the rest. I'll come back and read it after i've seen the movie
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Therefore I cannot read this review. But I will be seeing the movie when it opens. It better be good!
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Beaks, thank you for not filling your review with spoilerish material.
Methinks this is a film to 'discover'... Empire mag gave it 5 out of 5 btw.
Also like the ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE comparison... that happens to be my fave Bond. -
...this later.
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BLAHBLAHBLAH
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but the more that I actually read about it the more and more that I really want to see it now.
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But is it better than 'Bring It On'.Because, according to you, The Dark Knight wasn't.
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And Predators too!
Opening up against the Sorcerer's Apprentice and Salt has me kind of worried, though, for how well it will do. -
Harry, hey, anybody doing three paragraph hack jobs, this is what a real review looks like.I grok.
T.'. -
You should know as little as possible about INCEPTION before your first viewing, so I added the spoiler warning. But if you're okay with light spoilers, you can read the review in its entirety. I don't come close to giving away the goods.
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Come to think of it, the movie itself wasn't too bad, but Lazenby's turn as 007 kinda tainted the whole film, like Peter Parker's dance scene in Spidey 3 was time a billion. (the dance scene was Lazenby's performance times a billion, not the other way 'round. Just to clarify). Re: the movie, I'm breathless with anticipation. Though I'm not sure what set piece Beaks is referring to as the homage to OHMSS. The Space Needle lookalike where Blofeld was holed up with the girls?
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To hell with the reactionaries who bash on Nolan just because his films are successful. Intellectual "mainstream" films are rarer than a neon-green panda these days; this is seriously the only film I am anticipating this summer, and Nolan hasn't let me down yet!
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But why are there no Predators reviews?
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And two positive Predators reviews so far as well. Can NOT wait for the Summer to really get started!!! Hey Nolan, prove you are really a genius and have Paul Walker play a main role in one of your films and make it good, then I'll bow down and worship you as my Lord and Savior!!!!
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Beaks mentioned Coppola and Lean, but I would also throw in Kubrick. Like Kubrick, he is now a visual master with a fierce, cold intellectualism. Nolan is quite simply the most important film maker in the world today as far as big budget Hollywood productions go. Its no longer James Cameron. Nolan has surpassed Cameron.
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Jul 05, 2010 5:26:46 PM CDT
Beaks, another limping spectacle of torn narrative tissue
by billboefett
just kidding, I enjoyed it. Well written. As in-depth and complex as a Nolan film :)
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I want to see this fucker.
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His movie was terrible.
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I want to see this fucker.
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What surprises me is that James Cameron went the George Lucas route and fell in love with his technology. Cameron's movies were always technically impressive, but they were always more "heart" than intellect. Avatar just didn't seem to have the same fire (in my biased, 3D-loathing, CGI-despising opinion, that is).
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Beaks, mate... a word of advice... don't link to your Best Films Of The Decade list. Don't ever link to that. Sweep it under the rug. Pretend it never happened.
You clawed back a teensy bit of credibility with this review - for god sake man don't shoot yourself in the foot by bringing that fucking list up again!
You're not Schindler and the list is not life. It's shite. Pure fucking shite. -
And you have AICN in a nutshell...
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Too much brain food for the great unwashed.
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proves what a pseudo-intellectual fraud Beaks truly is.
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A very fun film for those who enjoy sophisticated brain candy and a marked step forward for Nolan in terms of emotional impact, though he still doesn't know how to direct action. Could have done without the Total Recall ending. Not everyone will embrace the level of complexity, and at 30,000 times the expense of Primer, this movie is outlandishly ballsy. After the first weekend, the bottom will fall out of the teen demographic. Can't wait to see it again, though.
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Thanks for the spoiler-light review; it's appreciated. I'm already looking forward to this but I don't want to be influenced by a bunch of internet fanboy hype (or hate). Thanks for giving a thumbs-up without giving the whole thing away.Now, I hope everyone is prepared for the cocksuck that AsimovLives is about to give Nolan in each and every one of AICN's INCEPTION reviews. You thought the Bay/Abrams rants were bad? Pfffttt.
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Inception will have to be REALLY impressive. I mean REALLY. And I don't mean impressive in an 'oh, this is a very smart, emotional and original summer blockbuster' kind of way. It will have to be one of the greatest movies ever made, and transcendent of geek genre entertainment in its intellect and examination of the human condition. And I very much doubt that it will be THAT good. You do not make those kind of comparisons lightly, unless you have only a superficial knowledge of cinema, which many geeks tend to have. Inception will have to be MUCH more than a cool and clever genre film to have the right to be compared to Kubrick - and ditto for Beaks' (likely) absurd comparisons to Lawrence of Arabia and Apocalypse now. Don't write Nolan checks he can't cash; you are doing him a disservice. If Inception genuinely warrants such comparisons then I will take my hat off to the man.
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thats sad.
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Only good movie last Spring was Shutter Island, with Leo. Only good movie this summer is Inception, with Leo.
Seriously, DiCaprio is on a killing spree, my God.
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A REAL movie at last. Hope it makes a fortune. Like thatswhatshesaid, its the only movie I've been interested in all year.Well, this and Toy Story 3.
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Jul 05, 2010 5:47:17 PM CDT
"though he still doesn't know how to direct action."
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
He certainly hasn't surpassed Cameron if that is the case. And " a marked step forward for Nolan in terms of emotional impact," sounds like faint praise. That review sounds much more legit and indicative of what I expect from Inception than Beaks' absurd hyperbolic praise. "A very fun film for those who enjoy sophisticated brain candy " - not La Dolce Vita, Tokyo Story or Barry Lyndon.
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And Nolan, Best Director.
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Articulate, structured, informative and not overly revealing.
Harry should take note. -
I would say Inception is, like a great mystery, elaborately conceived in a very fun way. Think Prestige times ten. But it is in no way as substantial as any of Kubrick's work. That would be like comparing Agatha Christie and Tolstoy. At the end of the day, Inception doesn't have much to say, much like Prestige. But it's great fun for those up to the challenge.
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Surely the care given to this review is on par with the level of cinema that awaits us in Inception. I can't wait.
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This guy leads the pack when it comes to acting range and ability. Granted, he hasn't done a comedy yet - but I really don't want him to. He's just great in dramatic roles. I love me some Leo.
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how does that compare to Ap. Now and LoA?? A decent film yeah..but nowhere in the league of those other two let alone many of Scoseses other films.
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Jul 05, 2010 5:54:30 PM CDT
not La Dolce Vita, Tokyo Story or Barry Lyndon.
by castoutthiswickeddreamthathasseizedmyhea
Exactly. And it won't win any Oscars. As for the action, it's nowhere near Cameron. It's hard to make out logistics, objectives, and sometimes what we're looking at. (One gun battle plays out with all characters dressed in the same white outfits with faces almost entirely concealed.)
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Tell me this movie doesn't end on a park bench. On second thought, don't. I want to be surprised.
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Kubrick made films that stand up to greatest works of art ever created in human history (2001 is better than the pyramids and the mona lisa x 1000). Nolan made batman movies. still this look neat.
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he's incompetent on every level.
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Jul 05, 2010 5:58:55 PM CDT
...I give Leo tons of respect for the way he tried his best...
by flickapoo
...to do only quality work after the incomprehensible worldwide success of TITANIC. I wouldn't wish navigating the icebergs of that kind of fame on my worst enemy...especially at the age he was at the time.
See what I did there?...with the icebergs? -
Jul 05, 2010 5:59:53 PM CDT
castoutthiswickeddream, that's exactly what I thought
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
I have no doubt that it's an excellent and inteligent piece of entertainment, but be prepared for the fanboy adulation to go into overdrive regardless. This will end up as the No.1 rated movie on IMDB, you can be assured of that.
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It means absolutely nothing if Inception makes no money. Not a thing. In fact, I would probably have MORE respect for it knowing that the great unwashed masses avoided Inception like the plague. The films that make money are dumbed down eye candy with a simplistic message that resounds with a kindergarten pre-schooler. And if Inception fails financially, Nolan has Batman 3 to get him back into the studio's good books. It won't affect his career one iota.
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Nolan should've put a couple of farting robots in the trailer.
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You do know what 2001 is about right? (Also Sprach Zarathustra is a big clue)
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Yeah it is fanboy crack. Like a $200 million Donnie Darko. Much better than that movie, but you know what I'm saying.
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Superman news?
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As Nolan takes his place as one of the great modern directors of today. I think three more great films and he takes his place in the pantheon. My God I can't wait for this.
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....And I'm not trolling here - genuinely, his intellectuality (if that's what it is) leaves me bored every time. Take THE SHINING. I don't care how many takes this movie took to film, in the end - it's boring. The ending would have been far superior sticking to the book's. Sheley Duvall is outstanding in the movie, sure - I've seldom seen stark raving fear put across as viscerally as she does in this movie. But Nicholson is simply having too much fun as the lunatic, and watching him enjoy hamming up that role kind of undermines the fear his character is meant to put into us. The dream-like sequences were also just boring, and as great as the blood in the corridor scene was, I just can't for the life of me see why it gets so lauded.
2001. Great, but seriously far-out towards the end. Prefer the novel.
FULL METAL JACKET. Loved this movie, but it's very much a movie of two halves - and the second half is vastly inferior to the first, which ends when basic training does. Ironically, of all the Kubrick movies I've seen, this seems to have the most heart - even if the humanity in this is we viewers watching disbelievingly as R Lee Ermey systematically dehumanises the new recruits to the point that one of them snaps.
I could go on, but I needs to sleep. Can any of you recommend any Kubrick movies to me that aren't in this list?? (Don't bother with EYES WIDE SHUT - it was intriguing, at times impressive, but the short story is much better - and I DID love A CLOCKWORK ORANGE, so no need to defend that one). I'm interested to hear a Kubrick fanatic explain to me why his movies are supposedly such masterpieces. -
I was looking over Beak's top 25. A.I. Who gets the end of that movie?
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I just read the Primer snippet from the Best Of Article. At the end, he compares it to...MEMENTO. I'm caught in a Moebius strip.
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Did you see that ol' Faraci gave it 10/10? His personal Nolan-Hell must have truly frozen over.
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Seeing as IT'S HIS SITE. What? You didn't notice?
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It looks to me like they'll be the ones stealing the movie.
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I am now beyond psyched to see this.
And I was so happy to see you appreciated Primer! I've bought the DVD for several friends- "I don't want to give away the plot, man, but just watch this."- and they've all loved it. Amazingly complex but tight story. Kudos for help getting the word out on that one. -
HUH?
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But like others have said, his body of work as a whole is not exactly unassailable. Eyes Wide Shut was better off unmade for everyone involved. If Inception is as great as Beaks says, then Nolan absolutely deserves to be listed along with the greats. Maybe not alongside Kurosawa, but Coppola and Scorcese, sure.
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Oh wait. You know what I meant.
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Can someone explain he greatness of Kubrick to me? I get that he's coldly intellectual and hyper-intense, but the few films by him I've seen were extraordinarily uninvolving. Are there any concrete criteria by which his reputation can be explained?
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C'mon, that's not even close to being good.
I will check this out dough. -
Oh shit. I've never even been to Poland.I'll get this right. Just you wait and see.
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Shit, that means it will be popular in about 20 years.
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it awaits you c-Nol
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Fuck it.I'm giving up on this.
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Cameron was always, until AVATAR, a master of action, story structure and sharp dialogue. (AVATAR stumbled on all three.) Nolan, however, writes fairly flat dialogue, doesn't have much of a handle on structure, and is a confusing director of action. (Maybe INCEPTION changes that -- though it doesn't sound like it.) Maybe post-AVATAR Cameron has lost it, but Nolan has yet to have it...
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The term "masterpiece" has been used in at least two I've read (out of maybe six total yet). That's a damn good start.
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It's true. Look it up.
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Forgot about Titanic did we? "Iiice-beerg, deed ahid!" Say what you like about Avatar it's just a kiddie and teen girl friendly rehash of Aliens. Titanic makes me want to puke.
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Ever see Abyss? Now that's shit.
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It's a risk-it-all passion project from a great filmmaker. That's the intended analogy. I think it's an interesting failure with sporadic moments of brilliance.
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Give it a rest.
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"I wanted to stand up and applaud". Hell has officially frozen over. Get your ice skates on.
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Until Nolan makes something as shitty as Titanic. Then we'll talk.
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Now that's love, people.
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Jul 05, 2010 6:54:34 PM CDT
THERE'S NO SCHOOL LIKE NOLAN SCHOOL AND HE THE FUCKINGHEADMASTER
by canidate_micheal
From the first trailer I've been hooked. Nolan continually creates worlds that blow me away
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Jul 05, 2010 6:54:50 PM CDT
YOU CAN'T EVER PREDICT WHAT WILL BE THE NEXT CLASSIC
by bringingsexyback
I mean, I went into (500) Days of Summer just to check it out because the trailers were cool. I came out a transformed man. Whodathunkit.
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Jul 05, 2010 6:54:58 PM CDT
CountryBoy, those are not credible claims
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
"Cameron was always, until AVATAR, a master of action, story structure and sharp dialogue. (AVATAR stumbled on all three.)"The last 30 minutes of Avatar was a masterclass in action filmmaking, and the film was superbly and exactingly stuctured, just like Cameron's other films. Sorry, but anybody who knows anything about scriptwriting or action direction could not possibly criticize Avatar along those lines. A lack of sharp dialogue is the only credible claim amongst those three, and it's true that the film was far less quotable than the Terminators or Aliens - not bad dialogue, just perfunctory, apart from a few scenes. And for all those ridiculous Cameron bashing Nolan fans - your hero liked Avatar. From the NY times interview:Nolan: An original concept – a world the audience hasn’t entered into before – for me as a filmgoer, that’s the most exciting thing. What I responded to with “Avatar,” for example, was just not really knowing what it until I sat down to watch it in the movie theater. I really enjoyed it.
Q.But in that case, they did a fair amount – maybe even an unprecedented amount – of planting the seed with a certain kind of audience.
Nolan: I think they were being incredibly ambitious on two fronts: one was, creatively, with the depth of the world they were creating. The other was the technology, the specific technology. We’re putting this out the old-fashioned way.
Q.You’re not being ambitious at all?
Nolan: Well, we’re being technically very ambitious, but in a more traditional film presentation way." So suck on it, fanboys. Cameron, too, has gone on record as praising The Dark Knight. There is mutual respect between the two. Something the idiot fanboys would do well to take a cue from.
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Now I am never seeing (500) days of summer. I get the feeling that movie will make me want to kill someone with my bare hands.
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Jul 05, 2010 6:58:46 PM CDT
I ENJOYED TWILIGHT: ECLIPSE MORE THAN IM2, ROBIN HOOD
by bringingsexyback
and Prince of Persia. That's the thing about the age of movies we're living in now. It doesn't matter who the director is, or what the director has done before. Every new work is the filmmaker's new benchmark, and that's why I want to piss in Jon Favreau's mouth.
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Jul 05, 2010 6:58:51 PM CDT
Oh, and Nolan has an excellent grip on stucture
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
His films are like intricate clockwork puzzles. Where he falls down is his action direction and flat visual sense.
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Jul 05, 2010 7:01:52 PM CDT
"Faraci wanted to stand up and applaud"
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Why is that loathsome beast still living? Until he apologises for rating GI Joe and Terminator Salvation above The Dark Knight, he can go fuck himself.
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And I wonder what's worse. The fact that Avatar is a rehash of Aliens or the fact it's one of the better movies out there.
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Jul 05, 2010 7:05:10 PM CDT
ULTIMA - YOU MEAN TO TELL ME YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET?
by bringingsexyback
That's just plain crazy.
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You may be right, I don't remember TITANIC well enough. But I don't recall being really bored during it, and I do recall a sense that it built well to a big climax. (Come to think of it, Cameron's dialogue was already getting kind of corny way back then.) To be honest though, I just wasn't really thinking about it right now. My bad?
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pity them.
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I was too stunned and my throat was in my stomach.
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I'm begging like a dog. I'm a huge fan of all things Superman and I can't imagine anyone else getting the material perfect.
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Mark my words.
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That sequence was badass.
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When in Twilight, do as the girls do.
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But Inception is going to be the best movie of the year!
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In tone, theme, visual palette, or story. The only superficial comparisons are to be made regarding the marines, robo-suits and gunships, and Michelle Rodriguez as a Vasquez-like chracter. And what the fuck is wrong with that anyway - the more space marines stuff in movies the better. Actually, what was cool about Avatar is that it was a reversal of aliens in a sense. This time the marines were the bad guys and the aliens the good. Jake, and Neytiri astride a giant black monster, fighting Quaritch's amp suit was a mirror image of Aliens powerloader battle. But the rest of the film is nothing at all like Aliens. Hey, Inception is just The Dark Knight without Btaman characters! The visual palette looks the same as Nolan's Batmans.
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I felt I'd seen the battle at the end of AVATAR 1000 times the first time I saw it. Good guys and bad guys flying around shooting at each other... I mean it wasn't incompetent, it was just rote.As for structure, AVATAR's boring, derivative structure has been hashed over so many times in so many places I don't think I need to repeat it. Again, I don't mean it was incomprehensible or inept, just dull and "been there done that." AVATAR wasn't a fiasco, just blah. And Nolan's strucure issues aren't about logic gaps or loose ends, they're more like an inability to tell a story that flows and builds in satisfying, unexpected ways to an engaging, powerful conclusion. That's something where Cameron generally stood out (AVATAR (and maybe TITANIC) excepted), and Nolan may on INCEPTION; but so far, no.
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Well, I do remember Titanic. I remember it and you reminded me and it's a good thing no one is around me right now. Good thing for my legal status.
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I pity you, lockesbrokenleg.
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That big stupid lump of lard won't get it. He'll pretend he gets it but it doesn't "do" anything for him. It will tax his brain too much. With any luck, his head will explode a la Scanners.
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That's all from you? No swears? No caps?
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Jul 05, 2010 7:17:52 PM CDT
I ENJOYED PISSING IN MY OWN MOUTH MORE THAN TWILIGHT
by richard_gere_raped_my_gerbil
Ah, who am I kidding.I've never seen Twilight.BUT! If I did... then I'd piss in my own mouth just to see which was more enjoyable.And whether my cock was big enough to perform such a Herculean task.
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M Night Shamadamadingdong is now a massive fail.Oh. We're talking about the other one?
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Do you have any idea how bad a movie has to be to piss me off... For free?
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Dear Spud_McSpud_Returns:
You asked, "Can anyone recommend Kubrick movies to me that aren't on this list?" and "Would one of you who is a Kubrick fanatic explain to me why his movies are so great?"
The answer to your first question is easy: "Paths of Glory," "Spartacus," "Dr. Strangelove," "Barry Lyndon." In addition to the ones you name, "2001," "A Clockwork Orange," "The Shining" and "Full Metal Jacket," they form the canon of Kubrick masterpieces. (I exclude "Lolita" because despite James Mason and Shelley Winters, and because of Sue Lyon and Peter Sellers it's ultimately an abstruse early exercise in snark.)
The second answer is even easier to answer: Kubrick made movies.
Let's take it one word at a time: KUBRICK made movies. Every one of his films bears his artistic imprint, that's instantly recognizable, but big and varied enough to be interesting. It fits the material and also reflects the man. It's like Rembrandt's painting style or Hemingway's writing style. At the same time, KUBRICK made the movies, not one of Kubrick's imitators. Kubrick never copies himself, never repeats himself. Despite the stylistic similarities, all his movies are different from each other in subject, theme, mood, look, period, pacing, and every other aspect you can name. "Lolita," "Dr. Strangelove," "The Shining," and "Eyes Wide Shut" may all be set in contemporary America, "2001" and "A Clockwork Orange" both in the near future, "Paths of Glory" and "Full Metal Jacket" both in war, "Spartacus" and "Barry Lyndon" in a histoical-costumed past, but they all take place in different universes.
Kubrick MADE movies. He initiated his own projects. He adapted the screenplays. He designed the look of the film, filling thousands of pages of notebooks with sketches and photographs. He cast the films and actually directed the actors by talking to them and sharing the same space with them on the set. He shot the films himself holding a camera he owned and modified through a lens he himself designed. He cut the films. He supervised the music. He designed the advertising campaign. He went to the theaters where the film was playing to personally adjust the framing, focus, brightness and sound levels. And even more importantly, he did all this while having fruitful, mutually rewarding collaborations with writers, cinematographers, set and costume designers, editors, actors and studio executives. Stanley Kubrick knew how to make a movie better than anyone before, during, or since.
Finally, Kubrick made MOVIES. He did not make cartoons. He made awesome things happen, and then shot them. And those awesome things were real. His centrifuge in "2001" or the Outlook Hotel in "The Shining" will never age as a special effect, because they were not composited, not CG'd, they were actually there. The cockpit of the bomber in "Dr. Strangelove" was so real, the Air Force actually contacted the production to ask how they got the top-secret specs. (They didn't. Stanley figured it out from various publicly available articles.) That's how you make a real movie.
Kubrick made movies. KUBRICK MADE MOVIES.
And that's the answer to your question.
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Good post!
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"...what was cool about Avatar is that it was a reversal of aliens in a sense..." Which means it's like Aliens right? Ah, don't mind me. I'm just I'm a bad mood right now I wonder why?
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Bravo. You deserve a standing ovation, sir.
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"As for structure, AVATAR's boring, derivative structure has been hashed over so many times"That's not the same thing as bad structure."I felt I'd seen the battle at the end of AVATAR 1000 times the first time I saw it. Good guys and bad guys flying around shooting at each other... I mean it wasn't incompetent, it was just rote.You haven't seen it done better, certainly not for a long time, given the MTV edited junk that passes for action today. And how exactly is the vague point of a battle between good guys and bad 'rote'? That's just traditional storytelling. What the hell else was the movie supposed to have? Avatar was a terrifically structured linear story, which was appropriate given the kind of story it was attempting to tell. Ther hero's journey SHOULD climax in an epic battle.As for Nolan, who deals in psychological thrillers for the most part and therefore employs non-linear structures appropriate to that end, in what sense do his films not build to a powerful conclusion? The ending of Memento doesn't build to a revelation of that film's them or the tragedy of the main character's predicament? Or the revelation of The Prestge, where the curtain is metaphorically pulled back (when it was laways in plain sight for those who looked closely enough? Those are psychological thrillers and must conform to such, so those types of movies certainly wouln't be inclined to have action or emotionally peaking last acts. His conclusions (and unconventional structures) are appropriate to his material - same as Cameron's.
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this is the movie i've been waiting for all year. can't fucking wait.
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I am talking in a vague sense only. Avatar's story is completely different to Aliens. Did you just miss the last part of what I wrote: "But the rest of the film is nothing at all like Aliens."
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I know you weren't addressing me, but I had the same question as Spud, and your answer isn't really satisfying. Everything you attribute to Kubrick is laudable, but it doesn't say why his movies are great. He maintained a style, did it all himself, it was all real... I admire all that. But how did that make the movies good?
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In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary: Come again?
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Jul 05, 2010 7:43:27 PM CDT
"because they were not composited, not CG'd,"
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Ah, the old, 'it's great because it's not CGI' argument. Except this - Kubrick was no luddite when it came to technology (which unfortunately Nolan seems to be). He was enthusiastic and ahead of the curve when it came to new technologies, and was intrigued by the possibilities of CG. In fact, he planned to use it liberally on AI. The ILM techs he consulted for the project were astounded by his knowlege on the subject. If he'd been alive today, he would be planning to use moc-cap and CGI in one his projects, have no doubt of that. He would have relished the exact control it would have given him over environments and actor's performances, for a start.
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Nolan has a couple "twist" movies and a couple of realistic Batman movies. He hasn't proven himself to be the artist that Kubrick was. Inception may put him one step closer but he still has a long way to go.
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Jul 05, 2010 7:52:51 PM CDT
Kubrick's brilliance lies in the fact that he
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
examined cinematic technique like a chess player, and in turn manipulated it and re-arranged it to examine profound subject matter in a revealing way. Much like a poet can reveal the truth about something by applying imagery and meter in an uncoventional way and making the familiar appear fresh. In essence, he shattered the fourth wall of cinema. That is the highest level of art.
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I could go on and on how Avatar is Aliens in new clothes but I can't be assed. Just tell me this, how is Burke in Avatar different than Burke in Aliens?
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I agree, AVATAR didn't have "bad" structure. But it just felt like Cameron grabbed it from countless other movies, filled with cliches srtaight out of a Joseph Campbell primer. And a sharp, powerful, unpredictable plot was something he could usually be counted on before that. Maybe we're talking about different things. But the Cameron of T2 or ALIENS feels like a different person from AVATAR Cameron, structure-wise.The battle at the end was no better than the air or space battles in the SW prequels. Ep. III was on the other night, and I was totally engrossed in the opening fight above Coruscant, much more than the end of AVATAR. Again, I'm not saying Cameron did a terible job, just that I've seen it before. And he was once cutting-edge.Nolan and structure -- I was actually going to exempt MEMENTO from that, because it works well. But his other movies... I don't know how to explain it, and maybe I can't. But some movies just feel tight and solid and they carry you along. TERMINATOR and T2 do, JAWS and STAR WARS and RAIDERS do, lots of others do... and Nolan movies sort of wander around. I think they SHOULD have a powerful climax, and not be excused because psychological thrillers "don't do that." Hitchcock certainly didn't think so. Who knows, INCEPTION may change all this. But I still don't see Nolan being anywhere near the heights Cameron scaled -- and nor, sadly, do I see Cameron himself.
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Take that blue boy.
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because Burke was a guy who appeared friendly and then was revealed to be a heartless monster. Selfridge was a prick who initially only appeared to be interested in the bottom line who later revealed himself to have somewhat of a conscience. Simple, eh?
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so I didn't read the review cause I don't want to spoil myself. Nolan can't miss. I need a movie to rape my mind and leave me for dead on the floor. It's been awhile since I have been mind-fucked in the theaters.
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Nolan and Cameron are similar, as they both are great craftsman in cinematic storytelling. Nolan, on one hand, gives us emotionally flat films, while Cameron, on the other, likes to touch our emotions with paint-by-numbers cliches. Therefore, it comes down to what kind of a viewer are you? Spock or Bones?
Both of their projects, like all films, rest on casting choices. I feel that Nolan has been generally aware of his shortcomings and casts leads that can make up for his coldness. Except for Christian Bale, who apparently spends no time around other human beings and doesn't understand how to mimic their emotions. Cameron, like Nolan, has sought out the emotionally vapid Sam Worthington to portray humanity. Both filmmakers must be so arrogant in their skills, that they think they cant pull emotional performances from flesh-covered robots.
It all comes down to how these directors treat their audience. Nolan seems to be doing his own thing, and damn the audience if they don't emote. Cameron feels compelled to spoon-feed the audience emotional content which seems familiar to them (becasue it is). I guess I'll take cold intellect over cliched sentimentality. Although, I'm not necessarily proud of it. -
The "Matrix" ripped-off "Dark City", as well as "The 13th Floor", and of course, "The Cell"...and now, not to be out-done, Christopher Nolan rips-off all of the previous films...that ripped-off Dark City, while managing to rip it off himself...this in the form of "Inception"?Stealing from others, and claiming the credit for yourself, never ceases in Hollywood, does it?
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Jul 05, 2010 8:02:38 PM CDT
John Wayne, given your litany of idiotic comments in
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
one of the previous threads that revealed how stupid you truly are, I'd keep quiet if I were you.Tell me, you still think "Avatar 2 is going to bomb (just like the first, eh?) and that 'everyone' in the world thought Avatar was shit and wanted their money back"?! Hahahahahahahahah!!! Know that Avatar 2 is probably going to make a TRILLION dollars, and I hope it drives you trolls to fucking MADNESS.
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Contrary to the opinion expressed above about how terrible "Majesty" was, many Bond fans consider it to be among the very best of the series. One may debate the quality of Lazenby's performance, but given the shoes he had to fill at the time....(think replacing Ford, or Arnold in roles they created immediately following their respective peaks)
Unlike many Bonds before and since, the narrative of OHMSS is straightforward and taut. Nolan could have had far far worse films to admire and inspire him. -
Heart with brains. Bay is Bones. Nolan is Spock. Kubrick is Spock's father. Note that I'm making the character comparisons to the originals, and not the Jar Jar shitfest bastardisations of them (turned into Asimov for a second there).
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Will he just do the first film again, but underwater? I'll bet my house that Jake and Neytiri have a son who has the neuro chemicals that will unite Pandora and free it from the humans - i.e he is another John Connor. The humans realise this and go to kill him a la T2, and Jake and Neytira protect him. In four years time please refer back to this post - I'm betting I'm right.
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Jul 05, 2010 8:10:12 PM CDT
OHMSS would have been the best Bond ever...
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Had it featured Connery. Lazenby isn't as bad as all that, but his acting is limited. They had to dub his voice when he impersonates the scottish laird in Blofeld's ski lodge.
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That's Avatar 3 you're talking about.I'm dying to find out, however, if my prediction of Inception's twist ending is correct.
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Like the wookie scenes in the Star Wars Holiday special.
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OHMSS is a pretty average Bond movie. It tries to be serious, but Bond sleeps with 79 year old women in this movie.
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Nicely done, sir.
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Jul 05, 2010 8:24:31 PM CDT
Didn't they do this in a cartoon episode of Beetlejuice?
by gibsonusa returns
I often have lucid dreams.
The first thing I do is start flying around looking for babes.
Or, I try to communicate with somebody. -
Hacks steal from others, and don't dare mention their inspirations, the difference between a theft, and a inspiration. Nolan is not a brilliant filmmaker, no, he is a overhyped...banal, and very anal, technician who got lucky based upon an editing gimmick in the form of his first film. Nolan's Batman films are self-important, strangely boring, and emotionless--save for that which is dour, and just plain distant? The fight choreography was lost in a blur of bad editing, as with all the Batman films, past and present, and Batman is always the same monotone Batman/Bruce Wayne. "Pitty me, my parents were murdered, I'm angry, and crime must pay!" Yes, we've heard it all before, and it is becoming self parody, as Batman/Wayne lacks other parts of human personality, and action, and that makes him dull?" As well, the script and editing structure of "TDK" was horrid.If not for Heath Ledger's death, I am certain that film would have gotten many bad reviews--but human pity for Ledger's passing...prevented any real critical opinion from being launched at that film, instead, we got lie after lie that TDK is a great film, something that became false Urban Legend for a time, based upon the hype that fueled it.
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Huh? Gee, he bedded Irma Bunt too? Must have been in the "Directors Cut".
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Nolan has proven himself to be the best director of this generation. It's been so long since I've been as excited about an original idea movie like this. Thank baby Jesus that the studio hacks haven't torn this man apart yet.
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Jul 05, 2010 8:28:21 PM CDT
DID YOU REALLY THINK INCEPTION BEING RELEASED IN THE SUMMER
by bringingsexyback
was just a coincidence? How naive you are.
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and he fucking hates Nolan and always trashes his movies....but on the other hand he has awful fucking taste. Not sure how to take this news.
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That is all.
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how one director has to be better or that it seems some people feel they are owed something by hollywood, werid, and as for you media messiah, uh that is kinda who Batman is, nolan may be too smart for you to appreciate fully, with your ant like brain, and yes yes everyone here feels your pain since your inflate a date girlfriend commited suicide by jumping on a pin cussion to get away from you, see isn't it fun to hate on someone you dont know ;)
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Would I rather it be directed by the likes of Joel Schumacher, Michael Bay, M. Night Schamalan? Hell no.
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All I remember is that old lady he sleeps with after the dinner party with all the ladies in in. Oh, and Bond wears a kilt in the movie. Uh Yeah.
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Nolan is a technician who got lucky? And what have you been smoking today?
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I just wouldn't.
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...that he knows what Nolan was thinking.
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I'm not saying it's Inception great, but it's a pretty decent vampire and werewolf flick. IMO it's better than Underworld 2 and 3.
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1) OHMSS was my favorite Bond movie until Casino Royale. Lazenby's performance was raw (and only annoying in the first scene with Teresa's father, where he couldn't seem to hold the screen during the monologue), but he was actually rather endearing, and if he hadn't been a tool, probably would have done fine in the role. As a whole, it was the only Bond movie that let him have genuine emotion, and probably closer to the source material than any Bond in years. Loved it.
2) Opinions vary, of course. But Kubrick is on almost every major critics list of top five filmmakers of all time. 2001 is my favorite film of all time. It is structured specifically to represent the "awe and mystery" (to borrow a term from the Outer Limits) that might accompany contact with an alien species. The novel was written AFTER the screenplay--the only stuff that existed prior to Kubrick and Clarke meeting was two short stories:
1) "The Sentinel", about the finding of an alien artifact on the moon and
2) "Take a Deep Breath" which detailed a short helmetless trip through vacuum.
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The novel "2001" was, in essence, Clarke's novelization of the screenplay he wrote...wait for it...with Kubrick.
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And by the way, just for fun: Kubrick provided "ghost" cinematographer advice on "The Spy Who Loved Me." The cinematographer (whose name I forget, but had worked with Kubrick on either "2001" or "Dr. Strangelove," which comes as close to being a perfect movie as I can think) couldn't figure out how to light the tanker scene. Called on his buddy Stanley who was smuggled onto the set and gave him advice, on the condition that no one know about it until he was dead and gone. I'm just sayin'
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And you foolishly shit on other people like Cameron for no fucking reason. Disrespecting a filmography that has inspired other directors to either build on what they have seen him do, or shamelessly imitate him. The fact that a lot of you fuckers pit them against each other solely because "Avatar" soared past the box office take of "The Dark Knight" shows how fucking dumb some talkbackers can be. You are all building up Nolan (and tearing down everyone else) that I would love to see when all the talkbackers who have his dick in their mouths turn on him something awful in 2-3 years... Because it's what you guys do. Build someone one up and say "HE IS THE BEST DIRECTOR EVER!!!!" then a few years later you start retconning the praise with some bullshit. Like the assholes who say that "T2" is crap or how "Temple of Doom" is worse than "Crystal Skull"... Can't you like a movie without foolishly trashing another in the process? Cameron vs Nolan is about as bullshit as Britney vs Christina. I hope "Inception" is a good movie. But reviews full of over the top praise, and now Devin liking it leave me feeling it won't live up to my expectations...
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That's why The Dark Knight was such a big hit, Beaks.
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"(500) Days of Summer" was great because it was painfully honest and realistic in its depiction of a relationship. Every man cam relate to the character of "Tom Hansen". And the "Expectations vs Reality" sequence in the end fucked me up because I have sadly been there... Great movie, don't know why many hate it site unseen. But you're alone on "Eclipse"... Saw it and I thought it was boring.
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Anyone who passes judgement on a film based on 'the editing of the fight choreography' is a retard.
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So excited for this movie and want to read about it, but don't want to know too much.
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...by a landslide, in my opinion. Batman Begins was a messy bore. Dark Knight was nice, but seemed cold and empty, like its setting. And I thought Ledger was a bit overrated - kind of a one-note performance. Insomnia was underrated.That said, I'm quite looking forward to Inception. It looks like it's going back to a more creative style of storytelling. Considering that all the 'big' films this year have been bad, it's nice to think of seeing this, Harry Potter, and Tron before the end of this year. Oh, and Expendables, too...
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Right on bro. Couldn't agree with you more. Literally.
As for Eclipse, it's not everyone's cup of tea and yes, there is a lot of talking (which was my problem with New Moon) but this one was much better. I still say it surpasses Underworld with its depiction of vampires and werewolves. The part where Edward asks if Jacob owns a shirt? Got me to chuckle. -
Leo turns out to be a dress wearing FBI Director in the end.
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Tit for Tat.......brilliant way to put it.....
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Not a “Twilight” hater here. Everyone needs to geek out on something. I know plenty of intelligent women who love “Twilight” but also treat it like a vice. So the “lonely fat girl” stereotype is stupid. All that said, I have seen all 3 movies. And I have to say they are just not really attempting to adapt the material in a way that would create a memorable experience for the moviegoer. “Twilight” was just a flat looking movie that had spotty acting. “New Moon” looked better visually, but it continued to have a huge problem, the acting of Stewart, Pattinson, and Lautner. All 3 are so inconsistent and do nothing to make the triangle believable enough to be invested in if you are over 13.
“Eclipse” is all over the place. The look is flat again. The CGI is spotty (especially during the mountaintop scene). Nothing is done to make “Victoria” a bigger threat. This showdown was teased and built up since the end of “Twilight”, yet she is barely shown in the film save for running away and finally a very quick final fight.
The selling point of this movie having “more action” is misleading as the battle in the end is over relatively quickly. Stewart acts better in this movie, but she still doesn’t sell “Bella” to the audience. We never know why sworn enemies would join together to protect such an unappealing girl. She isn’t instantly likable. She isn’t charming. She doesn’t fill the room with light in a way that you can see why people would risk their lives for her. She is just there. And Stewart just acts awkward and weird at times. She doesn’t have real chemistry with Pattinson. And she DEFINITELY doesn’t have any with Lautner.
Lautner overacts with his intensity as if he has something to prove. And it sticks out sorely when compared to Pattinson who now seems to be on autopilot. But oddly, Pattinson has more chemistry with Lautner than he does with Stewart. Especially in the tent scene which played to laughs in the theater I saw the film at.
“Jacob” and his declarations of love for “Bella” after a while are pathetic. Lautner and Stewart’s chemistry is so not there that he comes off as an annoying kid asking why she won’t go out with him. Had she been more believable as an actor, she could have made that work, but she doesn’t.
In all, the film really could have been adapted in a way to make it interesting. Especially since the first two films made enough money that they could have invested in making 3 a really good movie. Like Harry Potter 1 and 2 were by the numbers, but 3 was the start of them being REAL movies. The same could have happened here. But no. They dropped the ball and made a pretty bland movie where people talk more than react and nothing substantial really happens. And I can't believe I provided a breakdown of "Eclipse" on AICN... Thank you BringingSexyBack for the inevitable laughter I will get now as a result :)
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Most of Hitchcock's things weren't moneymakers either, but becoming ingrained in cinema lexicon is probably worth more than the box office.
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getting some mainstream love. Maybe now everyone will understand why Mad max reboot is gonna be tit's and beer.
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How do we know if the movie is worth going to see???
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Most underrated film of the century.
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And that's going to somewhat spoil the movie for me. Just focusing on the action sounds like something Michael Bay would do.
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by Roger Zelazny? The story seems similar, but could easily be very different. I seem some similarities to Paprika, too.
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Whilst you were the only AICN writer brave enough (or not lazy) to put out a top 100 it was terrible with some major exclusions. Should be a lesson to anyone with those kind of lists keep it to top 20, maybe 25 that can be debatable, everyone has their own opinion but once you go to a large list like 100 and exclude movies like ; Children of Men, Zodiac, Lost in Translation, Requiem for a Dream..... it ends up becoming a joke.
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Well, that's until Armond White reviews the movie.
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But remember - Jacob and Edward's love for Bella goes beyond the human elements of love, which explains much. And yeah, be prepared for some bashing around here. I'll have your back.
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Was the best one I've seen since Return of the King. Some of the shots were breathtakingly epic. Especially the one of Stephen Lang jumping out the burning the ship in the mechanized-exo-suit.
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Criticised you for you top 100 list, but good to see a well written review. Only thing I wanted to read more about were the performances of some of the actors like Ken Watanabe and Tom Hardy.
Also want to see Tom Hardy in Batman 3, was brilliant in Bronson. -
The reviews have been outstanding for this one so far. Of course the early reviews for MacGruber were good too, so I remain cautiously optimistic rather than just optimistic.
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But you couldn't help yourself could you? And Insomnia is a great film.
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I feel like I'm the only one who prefers Gangs of New York to Shutter Island. I thought Shutter was dreadfully slow and predictable. Anyway, can't wait for Inception. Nolan hasn't let me down yet.
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Ican hardlyytype, mybonner keepsgettinin the wayy...
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is that there won't be a sequel. so how much money it makes is irrelevant. as long as its well received (which so far it is)Nolan will keep being able too make whatever movies he wants to!
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Yes, but did he make movies? Joking. Great post. Barry Lyndon is my favorite movie ever.
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I didn't really read the review like many as i am trying to avoid things. Anyways, did you see this in IMAX? And if you did or did not, do you think it's worth going the distance to see it this way? Thanks in advance if you answer.
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Just two short weeks away!
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1. I feel that (500) Days is suffering from Juno syndrome. When I first saw it, I loved it. I ended up seeing it because I was going with a friend who wasn't 17 and couldn't get in to Funny People, so we saw that instead, which was a great call. It is a brutally honest movie that's filled with some biting cynicism but is ultimately about moving on. Walking out of the theater, I LOVED it. But once it came out on DVD and everyone I knew rented it based on the hype it had recieved, it started to grind my nerves a bit. Yes, it's great, but I can only watch it so many times and after a while it became a flavor of the week movie that every hipster in my town (and there are a LOT of hipsters in my town) wouldn't shut up about. I've probably had to sit through it ten times when I didn't want to, much like Juno two years ago. However, if anybody is avoiding it based on that hipster affection, you're making a bad call, it really is a great movie. 2. I have NO idea why anybody would bash on GONY. It certainly didn't live up to the hype it had pre-release, but it is by no means a terrible film. Occasionally cliched, yes. Occasionally self-indulgent, yeah. But to say that it's crap or unwatchable is ludicrious. It's a hell of a movie and the final shot gives me chills every time I see it.
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everyone was freaking over it. Now, no one ever even mentions it anymore.
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... about MEMENTO upon its release. I went to the theater to see it, and I hated every minute of that convoluted piece of crap. Funnily enough, I've thought the same of every Nolan film since.
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Knowing the kind of films Chris Nolan has, and since it plays on what is real or not, I am assuming that Mal, Cobb's wife, appears as both a product of Cobb's unconscious and she ACTUALLY invading Cobb's dreams as he invades Cillian Murphy's dreams to mess up her husband's plans either as an act of revenge or her attempts to save him from pursuing something that would ultimately destroy him and his family. It could even happen that Cillian Murphy is actually the good guy helping out Mal to get to Cobb. Of course, I could still be wrong, but it doesn't hurt to have such preconceived notions if only to increase one's interest in seeing the movie.
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(Lamest comment on the talkback, I know, but I don't really have anything else to say).
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Dom Cobb is officially one of the stupidest movie character names EVAH! Dom "Corn" Cobb.
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In Nolan I trust. INCEPTION will be the intense foreplay. Bat3 will be the true EYEFUCKING.
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Inception was always my number one choice for the year. A total no brainer choice.
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God bless Chris Nolan.
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To punish a anti-gay politician Cobb must plant a gay man in his sexual dream.
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read Beaks' post above, there aren't really any spoilers in the review, Beaks just put a box around it because it's such a good, smart movie, it might be best to see it without any advance information at all.
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I read the review & there aren't really any spoilers, but sometimes the site has some pretty big ones! Sometimes they aren't so much reviews as step-by-step rundowns of the entire movie & ending.
It tends to be justified (usually quite pettily by one guy in particular..you know who you are..) with "I put a spoiler box on it", but a good writer, a REAL journalist should be able to write a review & give an opinion, even touching on elements that could be spoilers,without actually revealing them. A spoiler warning's just lazy.
If we're here, it's because we're interested in the movie & it's Human nature to want info & want to read the review. If we come for info, but have to resist the urge to read the review, then it has no reason to exist. Also, even if you skip the review, there's no guarantee someone won't reference a spoiler in the talkbacks. Fuck spoiler boxes, just don't give spoilers. It's easy enough to do. -
Cause alot of AICN contributors are preparing for Comic Con. During that week they wont have time to report other shit outside San Diego happenings.
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believe it!
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Did he like/love/hate it?
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"Avatar" broke the bank in part because of the elevated ticket prices for 3-D movies. The tickets were about 30 percent more expensive to include the rental price of the glasses, but that money counted into the ticket grosses, so there ya go.
The more I watch "The Dark Knight" the more I think that "Batman Begins", though flawed, was the better of the two.
Nolan has had some amazing commercial success due in no small part to making 2 Batman films when fans were foaming at the mouth to see them under any circumstances. He is by no means a genius. He is a decent filmmaker but NOT a genius.
I wish people would stop throwing the "genius" tag around so liberally. The guy who makes my coffee at Starbucks does a very good job but I would hardly call him a genius. The guy who fixed my computer last month did a perfect job but I'd hardly call him a genius just because he can do something I can't do for myself. -
Job done.
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Jul 06, 2010 2:33:56 AM CDT
Nolan joins the company of Coppola, Lean and not too many others
by series7
God I hope the Dr. Boll is the next to join that list! Oova don't fail me now!
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I DID see Devins review. inf act I loved the way it was written so much I posted it to my facebook page. Yeah, I think he fought a little too hard against the tide on The Dark Knight issue, and in fact I think its a symptom of Feracis almost unfathomable lack of insight when it comes to superhero properties, but let's give the guy some credit for knowing obvious class when I see it. i think The Dark Knight is one of the greatest films ever made, but you probably wouldn't have known it from my criticisms of Batman: Begins, which I still don't like due to Goyers obvious hand in. But Feraci sealed it for me, my hopes are officially up, and I can't see how this one is gonna fail, I see literally ZERO warning signs, so Im heading straight for optimism town.
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Jul 06, 2010 2:51:54 AM CDT
Anyone who talks box office from this point on is a douche bag
by industrykiller!
It has absolutely nothing to do with anything. SOme of the greatest films of all time were box office failures. If you think a film making bank means its good or bad then get some fucking perspective or stop commenting on film.
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xolook,Inc. We are the best online dealer,about all kinds of jordan.run retailing and wholesale trade wordwidely for years. Free Shipping And Customs,Super Sale Off Retailing,With 1Week Delivery to your door. -
But my problem with pretty much all of Nolan's movies is they are driven almost exclusively by 'Ideas' and not 'Characters'. While I like a good stylish film as much as anyone (Blade Runner, Ping-Pong) the thing I generally look for in movies are interesting, distinctive characters that are compelling to watch. The Dark Knight suffered from too many characters that acted like they were in The West Wing - all walking down corridors, talking in the same 'professional' language without showing any real traits of personality. And the person that said Christian Bale acts like he's never spent time in the company of real human beings was absolutely spot on. He's one of the most alienating actors out there.
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i wish they'd cast other people in this - the effects are neat looking
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Best plot, villain, set-pieces, Bond-girls and, of course, the perfect Bond. I believe Lazenby - the fight scenes look so real. And, of course, Nolan is NOT a hack, he just needs to stop concentrating so heavily on the technical aspects of plot and device. And I'm OK with Leo DC too. At least he's made the effort to step into more challenging roles a la Aviator and Blood Diamond (two films he carried on his own).
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Lazenby is very good as Bond, and I would much rather have seen him in the original version of Diamonds Are Forever before it was hastily rewritten for Connery.
I'd love to see Nolan tackle a Bond film, but a proper Bond (not Bond the thug), the set pieces could be truly amazing.
I'm always in two minds about Nolan, I love Batman Begins but I only like The Dark Knight. I do however absolutely love The Prestige, his best work in my opinion, one of the few times a little heart escapes into the brilliant technical film making. -
that some people would come down so hard on Nolan. I loathed TDK, but I've loved every other movie he's done, with Insomnia being my favorite. I don't think there's any way to deny that this guy is a supremely talented filmmaker. Inception looks absolutely outrageous. Can't wait to see it.
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Especially Beaks. What a horrible non-review that was. Basically all he said in that review was the movie was pretty to look at. It was the most nondescript praise I've ever heard, then morons here are praising it just because it's positive.
And frankly I'd love to see anyone of these haters have a career like Cameron or Nolan. Particularly Cameron, making it seem like he fell off with Avatar. Give me a break, he once again cemented himself as one of the greatest visionaries in cinema history when all odds were against him. Nobody has a track record like him. -
Agree, it's nice to see CN getting back to the cerebral work of Insomnia/Memento because those films promised so much and imo he was dragged into the Batman franchise because he knew it was the only was he could get the clout he needed to make films of choice. It worked for Spielberg, Lean, Hitch, Lang. Of course, none of them could ever be in the same league as Carl Dreyer who just did what the fuck he wanted from day one and blew minds every time he touched celluloid.
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How can there be a movie about entering multiple male dreams without ANY female nudity?
What do I dream about more often, babes or spinning rooms? Um, take a guess... -
So i will hold off on the reveiw.calling nolan a hack is just fucking moronic and you know it.player hating bitches
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As with Avatar, I am longing for this to be a big massive hit not just because it was a risk that should be rewarded, but also because it's an ORIGINAL WORK. Amen to that.
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For the most part no one takes the Nolan hack comments seriously.
The guys's work in the last decade speaks for itself.
From a mainstream movie perspective over the last decdade or so its been Pixar and Nolan consistently delivering. With half the year down it looks like Pixar and Nolan again. -
That 12 years old girl sucks.
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... it pointed me to this review.Thanks for not talking about the movie that much- for a second I was worried you were going to spoil it for me, but you were too busy writing about nothing in particular.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgD5JKSK-J0
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A big opening day followed by a steep drop, "Eclipse"-style, as the "I don't get it" word of mouth spreads and business dies off. Opening weekend: $70-80M, which media will brand a disappointment, which will lead to incorrect assumptions, a 70-80% second week drop and a $200-225M final gross. No one who saw this movie will claim they liked it, except for a few stuck-up hipster douchebags who will wear this film like a badge of fucking honor, making "Inception" yet another code word for "I am superior to 'the unwashed masses'", further dividing movie fans and leading to Shyamalan getting funding for the "Last Airbender" trilogy because dollars to donuts THAT is what the people REALLY want. Of course, I hope I'm wrong.
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and AICN is not? I don't get it. Represent, people!!! Represent!!!!!
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I once dreamt about pulling a rabbit apart by its ears. When I awoke from the dream, I ran downstairs in my dressing gown and discovered my grandmother cradling her dead pet bunny. She never asked if it was me but she gave me dark and terrible looks that stayed with me until she suspiciously (but obviously nothing to do with, despite what that annoying fucking cop kept saying) hung herself a year later.I therefore look forward to Inception. If it is as wonderful as the adverts make it out to be, I think we will be onto a winner here. A journey into the mental corridors of the human mind depicted on film for all the see? I absolutely cannot wait.I hope there are lots of wonderful death scenes in it.- Dr. Satan
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Why isn't AICN getting internet love? Emanuel Levy is featured on RT and I don't even know who that asshole is, but he sucks.
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I think for AICN the opposite is true, once a movie gets consensus of critical praise, financial success, nerd rage kicks in and a much loved movie becomes "overrated thats a FACT" or "meh"
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When it comes to getting additional budgets for new projects, studios tend to favor it over acclaim these days.
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And I loved his version of The Shining. If you want a Shining that hews closer to the book, watch the made-for-TV miniseries that was as literal an interpretation as you could imagine. It really wasn't very good.But 2001. My gosh, that movie. A Clockwork Orange? Classics.I'm not a big Leo fan. His best work was in Gilbert Grape. Every other movie, he's playing himself as Leo: The Capital-A Actor.
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over another remake, sequel, or something based on a board game or toy property anytime.
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Best Film, Best Director and possibly Best Screenplay, Cinematography and Special FX. Partly because it will deserve them, partly to make up for the TDK fiasco. As long as it ends up with a 95% rating on RT, its gonna be pretty much impossible to ignore.
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There are people on here questioning Kubrick?
Jesus. -
Every post of his just seems to be complete nonsense.
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The posters above are correct in praising it, it's definitely in the top 5 Bond films.
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is simple jealousy. His life is incomprehensibly awesome compared to the fools on this site. I have some issues with a couple of his films, but the guy has proved himself by doing serious acting in extremely well chosen roles for years. If he's a good enough actor for Scorcese and Nolan, I'd say he's not terrible at what he does.
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INCEPTION
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INCEPTION
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Thank god, somewhere I can hangout and loudly proclaim that I believe OHMSS to be the greatest Bond film by a country mile.And to that total twat who talked earlier about his coffee barista making a good pot of coffee but not necessarily being a genius (ergo Nolan being to easily branded a genius), I say: "Yes, sir, you are a dickhead. Only on your fucked up planet could anybody compare a film director, and therefore an artist, to a fucking coffee jock. Even this guy who makes such great coffee would probably admit that it's not an art form, therefore your comparison is a touch fucking disingenuous.
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Jul 06, 2010 8:47:57 AM CDT
This is what a critic wrote from VARIETY....
by mjs_cold_dead_pale_corpse
"a vivid sense of procedural detail to a fiendishly intricate yarn set in the labyrinth of the subconscious, the writer-director has devised a heist thriller for surrealists, a Jungian's Rififi, that challenges viewers to sift through multiple layers of (un)reality". That's where you belong Mr. Beaks, writing this kind of gay crap at Variety. Your college student blog/nutless style will fit right in.
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director cock (excluding Michael Bay). It's fucking sad how you guys squirt over these dudes.
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But you gotta admit, that is one rockin' sentence.
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Most of RT's featured reviewers suck balls. They're not just obscure and insignificant, they're totally invalid as critics. I read the clowns who racked up the 8% positive for Airbender and couldn't believe their say influenced the rating. In a righteous world their opinions would be limited to a Yahoo message board. And that's it.
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Jul 06, 2010 9:26:18 AM CDT
I just watched 2001 on Blu Ray... Fucking WOWZA
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
My jaw was on the floor the whole time. The film itself has always been my favorite of all time, but in HD? FUUUUUCK. A Visual, philosophical masterpiece. I like Nolan and all but 2001 is untouchable. Pure Cinema.
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Jul 06, 2010 9:27:50 AM CDT
kwisatzhaderach... I think Locke might be trollish
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
The man was defending Transformers 2 yesterday.
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Lazenby is great and it's one of my favorites, but what do I know.... I'm a Dalton fan.
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RPLocke is lockesbrokenleg (aka skywalkerfamily). So, yeah. He's a troll; one that uses AICN like its his own personal Twitter account.
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Don't you be talkin' smack about Emanuel Levy!
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Does Marion Cotilliard get naked?
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RPLocke is lockesbrokenleg (aka skywalkerfamily). I know that he was originally 'brokenleg, but WTF kinda name is Skywalkerfamily?!? And who would still defend garbage like TF2 for that matter? Even BSB chilled when it came to how "great" GIJoe was.Then again, Twilight Eclispe?!?Did your Wife put a gun to your head or something?
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Jul 06, 2010 10:09:43 AM CDT
Bar none, this is the movie i most want to watch this year
by asimovlives
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ON HER MAGESTY'S SECRET SERVICE, GOLDENEYE and 2005's CASINO ROYALE are my favotire Bond movies. glad to see from you much love frorm the unjustly maligned ON HER MAGESTY'S SECRET SERVICE. I'm also glad that Nolan also thinks highly of that movie.
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Your arse still aches?
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What i believe Mr Beaks wanted to say about his mention of GANGS OF NEW YORK is that INCEPTION is a personla movie made by Nolan but on a big scale, like APOCALYPSE NOW and 2001 were too. Scorsese wanted to make GANGS OF NEW YORK since the mid 70s, he was already writing scripts for it even before he made TAXI DRIVER. It was one of his dearly pet projects he waited 30 years until he did it. APOCALYPSE NOW and 2001 were also pet projects for Coppola and Kubrick, as is INCEPTION for Nolan. The thing in common with GANGS OF NEW YORK, 2001, APOCALYPSE NOW and INCEPTION is they are personla movies that this filmmakers mannaged to make on a huge epic production scale.This is what i think Mr Beaks wanted to say with hs comparisons. It was not a question of quality, but of the scale of the movies and pet project very close to the heart of their filmmakers.
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No, my arse is fine. Are you getting your chapstick and lip-gloss ready?
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Aliens, The Abyss and Avatar contain the same general outline; Research team or Marine Unit or both, encounter an Alien lifeform either friendly or hostile. Throw in some Mech suits and nifty special effects and voila!
Cameron Magic! -
Live and Let Die, Casino Royale, Goldeneye, and.....I'm gonna be alone on this, but The Man With the Golden Gun is a sentimental favorite as it was the first Bond movie I ever saw and the only one I owned for quite a while. The summer after my fifth grade year I probably watched it ten times.
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That's if you want Nolan to be able to continue making original properties at this size with full artistic control. Batman 3 isn't the issue; that'll get made regardless. Personally, I hope Nolan resurrects his Howard Hughes project because Scorsese/ DiCaprio's version was ok but not fully satisfying.
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From Russia With Love; Goldfinger; OHMSS; The Living Daylights; and Casino Royale.
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Yes, those are all EXACTLY the same film because they contain encounters with alien lifeforms, aren't they? Idiot. All Nolan's films, save Batman, deal with an isolated male character trapped in a maze of their own making. Therefore, they must all be EXACTLY the same, eh? Nolan magic!!
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Diamonds Are Forever; The Man with the Golden Gun; A View to a Kill; Tomorrow Never Dies; and Die Another Day.
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Kidding, Micheal Bay can burn in hell. Looking forward to Inception, last hope of the summer.
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Great post very well and intelligently writen. Great to see anoyher Kubrick fan in here who actually understands something of the man and his movies. Believe me, in here, Kubrick's fans ar enot as numerous as one would believe. Hacks in here have far mor appologists then true masters like Kubrick.Agan, thank you fr your very good and intleligent post. I hope to see more from you in the future. Welcome.
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Good one.
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This will be the AICN TB "DON'T YOU DARE FUCKING CRITICIZE IT...IT'S !!!ORIGINAL!!!" and "THE DIRECTOR IS A FUCKING GENIUS ON A PAR WITH KUBRICK!!!" for 2010...
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Actually you could kind of argue that that applies to Batman films as well, as both times many of the ordeals he has to endure are the result of his actions (or lack of actions in TDK).
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I'm getting ready to watch a good movie made by a really good filmmaker. And you?
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Jul 06, 2010 11:26:46 AM CDT
Thank God for Nolan, this summer was headed straight to the crap
by blest
I saw IM 2 and it was fun (that's all it was) and everything else just looked to crappy to care. (I will rent A-team for some fun tho) Oh, and I do need to see Toy Story.But Nolan is the man. When your worst film is Insomnia (or TDK or Batman Begins or...any of Nolan's films)that's saying something. Personaly, he's one of my top 3 fave diretors. (the other 2 being Scorsesee and the Berg..who's only there still for sentimental reasons) Nolan just makes class films, period. This, Potter, and Tron will be the years best. Bank on it.
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Oh, I'm looking forward to it, too. The difference is that I'm not going to suck Nolan's cock in Talkback. Heh!It's a joke - lighten up.
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I think in your list you named the really very good Bond movies made. And it's great to see from you much love for THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS, a much underrated movie, IMO. Too bad you didn't put GOLDENEYE in that list too, becaus ei alos think it's a top notch Bond movie. Martin Campbel truly knows how to make a good Bond movie, he did it twice in two different decades, the man has the magic.
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You have to admit, you have said better jokes before, this latest was kinda lame. You know this to be true.And by the way: In Nolan We Trust.
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If Inception sucks, no doubt many will call it out. But Beaks did make it sound like the Second Coming so if does blow I say we track his ass down and rape it good.
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... my more skeptical expectations, Christopher Nolan will became my favorite living director. Sorry, Ridley Scott, but you kinda messed up with ROBIN HOOD. Scotrt and Nolan have been going on a ballanced act of which is who in my fave list since THE PRESTIGE and THE DARK KNIGHT were released. This year will be the litmus test. but if what Beaks says is any indication, Scott is going number two. Sorry, Sir Ridley, but it is as it is.My favorite dead director is Stanley Kubrick, of course.
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is one of a few writers/directors to never make a bad film. From Following onwards, they've all been good.
And this is one film that WOULD have been amazing in 3D. -
All directors ar enot beyond reproach. All movies ar enot beyond reproach. 500 Days Of Summe ris not mbeyond reproach. Zooey Deschanel is not beyond reproach. So, what was the point of your post again?
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Indeed.
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bought me the limited edition "Psychiatric Report" box set. Which I've never opened. I mean, it's good but it ain't no (500) Days good.
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Jul 06, 2010 11:42:30 AM CDT
I don't understand the "cold" label on directors like Kubrick, N
by asimovlives
... and Ridley Scott. I really don't get that. So the characters in their movies don't act like melodramatic characters from soap opera who over-react dramatically to the shit most of us take for granted in life. Really, on my par,t i'm tankful that there's filmmakers like Kubrick and Scott and nolan who don't make the characters in their movies act like uncontrolled melodramatic emos. i welcome the choice those guys' movies provide. So if they are "cold", so much the better. If every movie had melodramatic acting all ove rthe plac,e i had given up watching movies for 20 years already! Thank goodness for "cold" directors like Kubrick, Nolan, Scott, and of their ilk. Thank goodness for their respiste.
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In here, everybody is talking with everybody... even when not. Isn't that great?
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Mine would be a pic of a park bench.
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Bow down.
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...it is the biggest compliment that one can pay you, hence, I am infinitely grateful to my critics. I wear your attacks against me as a well earned badge of honor. Nolan didn't deserve an Oscar nomination, and TDK certainly didn't deserve a nomination for an Oscar. As for Ledger, he got a sympathy Oscar. He was a nice guy, but that performance was not Oscar worthy. If he had not died, he wouldn't have even been mentioned at Oscar time. It was only Hollywood guilt over the fact that many in the industry led Ledger down the road of destruction, or saw him going that way, and did nothing to stop it--and on top of it, Warner turned-around and used his death to help publicize the movie for profit; nice folks! This is all just so much bought, and paid for, hype...and it is for those who would so easily be brainwashed. Welcome to it!
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i read this and still dont feel spoiled. he didnt say anything that couldnt have been implied by the tv spots and trailers. maybe he was just covering his ass because there's always some whiners who think anything THEY dont know is a spoiler.
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(hadn't heard of it yet)
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Your strangeness continues to baffle us all.
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If anyone who stood out (TDK) it was definately Heath who IMO was the best Joker thus far.It was far deserving of praise and not just some postumous award.Then again, it's the Academy we're talking about...SNOBS! How fucking Annie Hall beat out Star Wars for best picture is still beyond my comprehension.
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Here's the down low on Your Highness. Interestingly, I didn't know it was pushed back to 2011. This fucking sucks, but no doubt they want to take time making it perfect. Which is cool.
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Here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_Highness
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Claiming Nolan to be na ahck is not telling the truth, no matter how you cut it. You can't play the martyr card on this, friend.
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Claiming Nolan to be an hack is not telling the truth, no matter how you cut it. You can't play the martyr card on this, friend.
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... which will be the AICN reviewer who will not like INCEPTION, or find lots and lots of faults and aggravation with it. There will be one, the only question is, who will be he? My bet is on Massa.
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SW is awesome and classic, no doubt, but Annie Hall is moreso. And only a silly fanboy would be offended by that. Watch the two movies again some time and tell me that whiney, skinny Luke Skywalker is a better protagonist than whiney, skinny Alvy Singer. Annie as love interest is arguably sexier (the gold bikini came later). I'll give you Han over Tony Roberts, the guy always calling Alvy "Max".
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I know that in our geekly enthusiasm soemtimes we let it get the better of us and cloud our judgement and prevent us from seeing the forest from the trees. but in regard to ANNIE HALL, that movie deserved the oscar over STAR WARS, hands down. You don't even need to think too much about it to know why. That was one of those rare ocasions when the oscars got it right. However, "OLIVER!" winning best director over "2001, A SPACE ODDYSSEY", that was a major screw up of the kind even the Academy is ashamed of.
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Once again I find myself reading through a Nolan-centric talkback and getting infuriated at the amount of bullshit heaped upon anyone critical of TDK. Does it occur to anyone that Faraci wasn't "fighting the tide" but actually had *legit* problems with the goddam thing? I know *I* certainly did and my opinion counts for dick-all in the grand scheme of things. So please, can we just put a moratorium on the knee-jerk "you hate it because it's popular/everyone else loves it" nonsense? Media Messiah might be nuttier than a Planters factory, but he's right about the power of hype and TDK's rightful absence from the Oscars.
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as the Pedoesque Woody Allen and his films are overrated.Not to mention that the cheap bastard shoots some of his works in B&w sans BGM. I take you get a thrill from all the psudeo intellect cosmopolitan dialog.SW had mor going for it than Hall, A Sci Fi film that was more than average as well as innovative. Skywalker, who started out as some farmboy reluctant to join a cause, becomes enthralled in a conflict (by way of his Uncle and Aunt's murder seeks justice and is inspired to now become a Jedi.)that threatens the Galaxy.Part of the film involves faith, as Luke did not have enough to utilize the Force until the very end.So Fuck yeah, I'm offended that Annie got the nod, but then again SW is more evident in the pop culture mainstream than some boring chick flick.
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No shame in my game. it's my inner geek crying out for justice. ;0)
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"the Pedoesque Woody Allen"As someone who respects and even admires you due to your pots, many time isnightful and intelligent, i don't ecognize you in that remark. It's so unbecoming you. You shouldn't be offended that a good movie won an oscar. you should be offended when a bad or mediocre one wins. ANNIE HALL, no matter how much you delight with STAR WARS, is a very good movie, and deserved the oscar. That's what there is to the subject. The fact STAR WARS was nominated was more a node to the commercial sucess and some of the technical break-throughs that the movie brough, much the same as last year was about AVATAR's nomination. I'm not comparing the two movies, i'm comparing the mindset that made the academy deemed those movies to be nominated. ANNIE HALL won fair and square. And ANNIE HALL is not a chick flick. If that is how you remember it, go watch it again... if you ever watched it in the first place.
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Though if you have some pot to share, i'm not saying no to that.
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... is me and every coment i make about you know who's movie that's supposed to be a reboot of a certain classic TV SF show and isn't.
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Jul 06, 2010 1:20:13 PM CDT
The Dark Knight was almost perfect except....
by mjs_cold_dead_pale_corpse
Nolan should have cut out the last 40 minutes with Two-Face and turned it into a third film. Oh well. Now you guys can go back to sucking on his plump juicy cock head...but don't get too full. Ya gotta save room for Cameron.
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It's common knowledge that most fantasy/sci fi films are snubbed by the Academy. especially when it comes to best picture, they mostly receive the nod for best special effects if anything. It goes as no surprise that cameron wasnt going to win this year's Oscar for Avatar. Either it's just another scifi genre or everyone's sick of Jim's ego.could be the latter in this case.
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... it's too short. All really good movies are always too short.
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Agreed, it will make 2011 a year to remember, and the good news is it'll give Nolan a shot at the Oscar this year.
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Jul 06, 2010 1:22:51 PM CDT
Are you guys seriously talking about Annie Hall
by mjs_cold_dead_pale_corpse
What is it with you pedophile loving cunts! Polanksi and Allen make shitty movies and bang 7th graders. You guys need to be smashed
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...has that got to do with Annie Hall being labeled great? Jefferson was an f'ing slave holder and he wrote one of the greatest documents ever for civil and human rights. Sometimes you have to separate the person from the work, you know? Because I have a feeling Mother Teresa might be a shitty director.
Annie Hall is undeniably a great movie, just like Chinatown is for Polanski. -
It was a comedy. How many comedies win Best Picture?
Also, ROCKY didn't deserve to win for Best Picture in 76. TAXI DRIVER, ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN and NETWORK are better. -
..out my Blu ray copy. so that it could reassure and refirm why Heath deserved the Oscar for portraying Comicdom's favorite Sociopath and TDK lives up to the hype it's the Empire Strikes Back of the Batman films.But fuck, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. (Even if they're wrong.)
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Because then we will start debating who the next villain will be, and than I will be on my soap box for days defending the Penguin.
Thank you. -
How could you say that rocky didnt deserve the win and today is Sly's Birthday too, you'll hurt his lil' feelings. But seriously, the only strong contender to go up against Rocky would prolly be Taxi Driver.fucking masterpiece.
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..I'm effin there.
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I'm sure Hitler was a great painter too.
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They put themselves into those movies...just like they put themselves into 11 year old girls. They are one in the same
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looks like him. A CGI model never ages. Unless you make it age. This is the only way to get the perfect look. To bring people back without a name. We dont need a fucking name. Cause the names dont look like him. Fuck Routh! That is a Superboy, not a man.
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Leo's name is an anagram
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Jul 06, 2010 1:57:50 PM CDT
If Jeffery Dahmer diercted Avatar would you still love it?
by mjs_cold_dead_pale_corpse
and would you still love 'ol Jeff
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that was a social norm in his time. Wrong or right, that's how it was. But plowing your Asian daughter has never been socially acceptable.
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And this is coming from someone who LOVED that film, loved it. But to deny the film has faults is just stupid. Great films do not have to be flawless, classic films do not have to be flawless. Maybe some great and/or classic films are indeed flawless, or close to it, but that is not a requirement. In fact I would say that there are very few flawless films.Now back to what I said in the title of my post....TDK had 2 flaws/faults whatever you want to call them that always kinda bothered me, I'd like to know if anyone else out there shares my view, but before I say what they are, anyone who feels TDK is flawed, please share what you think those flaws are. Again, this is not meant to slam TDK, I loved the film and I think Nolan is a superb director, so please no fan boy rage like I am a TDK/Nolan hater, not the case at all.
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Minus cars,whenever that came out, also this Nolan movie will no doubt be great.
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Will no doubt be great, I can't see any reason why it would not be. Every time I see a commercial for it I just get more pumped up to see it. Of course there will be the haters there always is, but that's to be expected. Naturally, there will be some people who just may honestly not like it and that's fine, it's the one's who hate just to go against the majority that are douche bags.
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The only flaws in the movie that bug me are 1. Marone is dropped from a building. We HEAR his leg snap. Next scene he's in (which is what, 2 days later?) he's fine. 2. Joker holds the trust fund brigade hostage. Batman dives out a window to save Rachel....and we never really see what happens to the partygoers. That said, I LOVE the movie. Those are the only two problems I have with it. I'm curious to hear yours now.
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In the real world, people on the ferries would be clamoring to press the button. I know I'd be lunging for that remote like Harry for a corndog.
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Still want to hear what others viewed as flaws, so please guys, let's hear it.The two flaws that I speak of are...in the beginning, the bank job....a school bus, a fucking school bus, goes through the wall of a fucking bank, not exactly a paper thin wall, and basically comes out undamaged, save for a lot of dust....even if a school bus COULD break through a wall like that, it would have a lot of damage, might even be inoperable.Next is the hospital. It is stated earlier in the film that the Joker has a lot of nut jobs working for him. In fairness, i'm sure he does have normal people doing stuff for him, be it because they are just bad people or have been forced into his service. But please, someone explain to me how all of the bombs needed to destroy that hospital could have been placed there and NOBODY NOTICED anything unusual. It's an obviously busy hospital, and you are gonna tell me that they were able to plant all of those bombs and NOBODY noticed anything? What, did the Joker get hospital employees to do it? Doubtful. I'm sorry, for me that is a tough one to swallow.BlaGyver, the ones you pointed out I have noticed but don't bother me enough to make an issue out of it, as we do see Marone walking with a cane later on, at least an indication that there was some damage. The party thing, not sure what to make of that, probably just the Joker's attempt at striking fear into the people of Gotham, hence why he just showed up and fucked with Batman and left.
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For all it's worth, i'd also like too to see Pinguin as the next villain, together with Catwoman. But that's me.
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She was never his daugfhter. Sje was never his biological daughter. I don't think Allen even perfilliated her as his legal daughter. So give that shit a rest already. And ANNIE HALL is a great movie, deal with it.
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New meme - amended to reflect the flaws.
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in the real world we'd wonder how the Joker got all those barrels onto the ferries when he's only one guy. And we'd also wonder how Batman hacked into EVERY cell phone in Gotham.
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I'm giving Nolan a pass on that one since we know the NeoCons were able to plant explosives throughout the World Trade Center, undetected. It helped that George Bush's brother was head of the company in charge of security, of course. Infowars.com and all that.
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"it's the one's who hate just to go against the majority that are douche bags."I ocne got really upset about this guy who disliked JJ's Trek because he was just that, somebody who was trashing for trashing sake, to go agaisntthe new popular thing, he had no real idea or conviction about what he said. It upsetted me so much. I'd rather be alone then to be with bad such companies, if you know what i mean.
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The Joker didn't worked alone in TDK, specially by the end of the movie he had a lot of henchmen. Remember, he already started the movie with henchmen, then he got some from Gambol's gang, and thenhe got more from the servian mobster, the escaped loonies from Gotham, and more and more. It wasn0't jsut one guy doing all the heavy liftuing, he had an army working for him doing his biding. Where you got the idea he was alone doing it all is just puzzling, because it's not what the movie shows. How long ago you haven't seen the movie?
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Jul 06, 2010 3:08:31 PM CDT
Wow I can't believe we are debating merits of Annie Hall
by lovecraftfan
It nots just a great film. It was groundbreaking at the time.
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and Batman was able to exploit their weak antennae. Have you checked your iTunes account? Thuat Nguyen is a real life Joker.
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Becasue i have enjoyed them all, and i have been in awe in regard to some og his, MEMENTO and then all his movies from BATMAN BEGINS foward. I guess just the way i am, how i am, and what i like and enjoy makes me a good audience for nolan's movies and for his style as a filmmaker. I just connect very well to his movies. For me, he is one of the top best filmmaker out there. Thr way i see it, he's nearly flawless as filmmakers can go. Andthe flaws people above say about himand his movies, all of them reads to me as petty and unimportant. That's how it is for me. And the dude is really very talented and makes really great movies.
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The problem with the geekry soemtiems is that they can be so focused, TOO focused, they forget there's more to cinema then just their prefered corner of the playground.
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Heath Ledger's performance in TDK was half Oscar worthy, and half Razzie worthy. The problem?: The Nolan brother's disjointed script, often laced with bad dialogue for the Joker, ridiculous motivations, and Chris Nolan's wooden direction, ultimately haddicapping Ledger.I don't blame Ledger, for when he cyphered Al Pacino via "Dog Day Afternoon"--he was solid, however, when he gave us the silly weaker Joker moments, well, that is how it played; weak. And the lack of real motive and thus motivation...of the villain, save for anarchy--for anarchy's sake, and trying to prove that Batman can be corrupted (a truly bogus motive)--he had no real thrust, and that undermined the character, and thus Ledger's performance. If Nolan was a better director, dramatically, and a better writer, he could have dug far deeper with giving the talent...something of great purpose, in script form, and direction, to do. Look at what he did with Maggie Gyllenhaal, Gary Oldman, Eric Roberts, Michael Caine, and Morgan Freeman? Answer?: Nothing???!!! These are all celebrated actors, and Nolan left them in flat and empty roles--with nothing to do of any real substance as actors? Anybody could have filled those roles, who didn't have to be a good or great actor. They were just shocking empty characters, with shockingly empty dialogue. Nolan is a weak director, again--a technician, not a real director, one who truly understands actors...or great writing!!!
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For my part, you are not convincing at all.
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The ability to enter ones dream and effect their decisions and/or kill them...? I guess there is nothing truly new under the sun, but as Dreamscape was a nifty B-movie thriller, I get the feeling Inception will take that idea and run with it. I. CAN. NOT. WAIT.
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Wow that's right, kinda like the hospital, how the fuck did the Joker get all those explosives onto not one but TWO ferries without ANYBODY noticing that something was a bit out of place. "Where are you going with those barrels?""Ummm...just delivering some motor oil, never know when you will need extra""Oh ok, carry on!".....seriously give me a break.Like I said I love TDK, love it, but for anyone to say it is without fault is just short sighted and stupid. I would love to hear these faults rationalized though, should be interesting reading.
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If Nolan was such a weak director, actor-wise, how did he guide Al Pacino and most importantly, Robin Williams (in one of, if not his BEST performance)through Insomnia?
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Heath Ledger's performance in "TDK" was half Oscar worthy, and half Razzie worthy. The problem?: The Nolan brothers' disjointed script, which was often laced with bad dialogue for the Joker, ridiculous motivations, and Chris Nolan's wooden and cold
direction, ultimately haddicapping Ledger.
I don't blame Ledger, for when he cyphered Al Pacino via "Dog Day Afternoon"--he was solid, however, when he gave us the silly weaker Joker moments, well, that is how it played; weak! And the lack of real motive and thus motivation...of the villain, save for anarchy--for anarchy's sake, and trying to prove that Batman can be corrupted (a truly weak motive)--he had no real thrust, and that undermined the character, and thus, Ledger's performance.
If Nolan was a better director, dramatically, and a better writer, he could have dug far deeper with giving the talent...something of great purpose, in script form, and direction, to do. Look at what he did with Maggie Gyllenhaal, Gary Oldman, Eric Roberts, Michael Caine, and Morgan Freeman? Answer?: Nothing???!!! These are all celebrated actors, and Nolan left them in flat and empty roles--with nothing to do of any real substance as actors? Anybody could have filled those roles, you didn't have to be a good, or great,
actor...as it was pedestrain material. They were just shocking empty characters, with shockingly empty dialogue? Nolan is a weak director, again--a technician, not a real director, not a director who truly understands actors...or great writing!!! -
A) Woody Allen and Polanski made ANNIE HALL and CHINATOWN BEFORE they any of this pederast shit popped up.
B) Neither film has anything to do with fucking young girls. It isn't like DW Griffith's BIRTH OF A NATION or Victor Salva's JEEPERS CREEPERS 2.
C) Comparing the crimes of Hitler and Jeffrey Dahmer did to what those two did is just being ignorant and intentionally combative.
D) Ty Cobb was a huge asshole. He was also deserving to be in the Baseball Hall of Fame because of what he did on the field.
E) Jefferson was a different era, but guess what? He knew what he was doing was wrong and felt guilt about it. Just read his letters and some of his writings - the man was publicly against slavery, calling it abominable crime," a "moral depravity," a "hideous blot," and a "fatal stain" that deformed "what nature had bestowed on us of her fairest gifts", yet he owned slaves because he was a lazy, greedy bugger and felt guilty over this hypocrisy. Yet I don't discount his work on human rights or drafting the Declaration of Independence and his support of the Bill of Rights. -
I love TAXI DRIVER (and I love ROCKY) but NETWORK is right up there with TAXI DRIVER. Paddy Chayefsky basically predicted how News shows would just become entertainment base, and practically all but prophesied the rise of Glen Beck.
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Conti, MJs is just a little runt.
I wouldn't give him the time of day let alone a well-structured answer he neither deserves it nor has a hope of answering it.
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Agreed, Nolan is a great film maker, and I too have enjoyed all of his films. Interesting that you say what small flaws people point out are "petty and meaningless" to you. Although that seems to be short sighted, as if you don't want to see the flaws, but that is not the discussion. Just keep what you said in mind my friend when being critical of things that you may not like but others do.
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One quick Penguin post.
Here is who I want them to cast:
http://tinyurl.com/yfdn42e -
Buñuel
Kieślowski
Hitchcock -
But you should be. You're the one with the right hand.
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I did see "The Prestige" though, and Christian Bale was boring as always, and Michael Caine (a legendary great actor), yet again, was wasted by Nolan; that is 3 straight movies where he, Nolan, did nothing of substance with Caine? David Bowie stole the movie, and it should have been about his character Tesla...realy, but the rest of the cast was banal, save for Hugh Jackman, who is always good.The pacing was slow, and the surprise twist was lazy, and not a worthy surprise at all. The film had no emotional power, or soul, something that is true of all Nolan films that I have seen--they are devoid of heart. Yes, this movie, The Prestige, was another case of hype over true substance. Nolan has to take the blame for this, the same with his other films, as he was the man in charge, and it was his baby!!!
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I immediately thought of Dreamscape when I heard about Inception. While Dreamscape was a nifty little movie, sentimental favorite of mine, I think Nolan will take that basic idea to a whole new level. There is nothing wrong with taking an idea that came before and using it, as long as you take it to a place that is far beyond what anyone could have thought, and I think Nolan can do that.
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...turn out to the theater in droves for this so that Hollywood gets the idea that maybe - just maybe - there's a good portion of us out in the world that want NEW summer movies with relatively original ideas instead of insipid sequels and remakes? This will be the only "summer blockbuster" movie that I'll be seeing at the theater this year, studios. I expect I'm not alone.
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Jul 06, 2010 3:45:03 PM CDT
Industrykiller, will this film live up to your astronomical..
by ganymede3010
EXPECTATIONS???
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Sounds wayyy to complicated
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Jul 06, 2010 4:12:06 PM CDT
Hans Zimmer's score takes on lovely, invigorating John Barry dim
by flyingtoupee
Oh, my! I am so there on July 16th.
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Nolan has a lot to thank Wally Pfister for. By my book he has almost single handedly taken average films and made them look absolutely stunning. The cinematography is the one constant amazing thing across his films. Charaters, action, plot and story are all floored at some point in a Nolan film but they all look exceptional. Makes me laugh that people would even mention his name in the same sentence as Kubrick. Nolan aint a hack but is also no where near the cream of the crop.
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That was no CGI Bale, believe it or not.
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...loved your post. Don't forget about The Killing, one of my favorite noirs. The look on Sterling Hayden's face as God pulls one nasty little joke on him at the end was beautiful. And I can't believe the Allen- Polanski digs. Hate them all you want, but how do you call their movies trashy or whatever? Rosemary's Baby, Chinatown, Annie Hall? I do like Allen's films(well, not all of them) but I could understand someone not liking them. But Rosemary's Baby and Chinatown, I can't understand how someone can be a lover of movies and call them trashy.
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I might actually waste the dollars on this.
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And this site has missed the cool news
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I know the Joker didn't work alone, but it's still improbably HOW he got all those oil drums. When he had them in those buildings to blow up Rachel or Dent, that I could believe, but he also had those ferries rigged too. How did he possibly have time to do that when he was in jail and doing all that stuff with the Dent? True, he did have a lot of the police force helping him, but it's still a weird point to the story.
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Agreed, I know the Joker had a lot to work with, but all those explosives in the ferries, the buildings and the hospital? Just seems too convenient and too easy, and again, this is coming from someone who loved TDK....but...it is NOT without flaws. To deny that is, in a word....stupid.
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How could you not? It's a great movie. The acting in it is spot on. But some scenes were just there to pad out the film.
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"it doesn't say why his movies are great. He maintained a style, did it all himself, it was all real... I admire all that. But how did that make the movies good?"
Because Kubrick was of a crop of filmmakers who never were concerned about story primarily but solving the problems of storytelling through film.
For example, the narrative of The Shining just wouldn't be effective if it was told from a human point of view (voice over of some character or whatever). In order for us to be enveloped by the story, the story was basically told from the building's point of view. The building is the main character who is connecting the threads between the human stories that go in and out of its presence. Likewise, the underrated A.I. was a fairytale/myth told from the point of view of robots *for* robots (sort of their own Genesis-origins story to make sense of their self conscious understanding of history and existence). And so on. Very few filmmakers even care to attempt to deal with film as lending new ways of defining the storyteller and our relation to the story through the storyteller. Those that do are rarely as competent as Kubrick.
just some thoughts
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Who is to say the Joker didn't do all of that BEFORE the movie even began? Or that he had a dozen other plots/ideas he never ever had a chance to carry out or the opportunity to use.
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Ya know, a lot of people go on about The Prestige, but it didn't do much for me. I admired it, and loved seeing Bowie in a movie again, but I liked other Nolan directed films better.
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both Inception and Predators, although with just a handful of reviews, getting 100% on RT. Yea, I know its too early..
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I don't think so. The Joker says he's there to watch the world burn. That suggests to me he's a planner. He doesn't just do things on a whim. Look at the bank heist. He had that ALL planned out, and he even got rid of his helpers.
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is a great villain in all mediums because he is ALWAYS five steps ahead. While asking how he managed to accomplish what he did is certainly a valid question, the nature of his villainy is that he basically would have had everything planned out and prepared ahead of time. Hell, had the boat scheme REALLY not worked (i.e, different ferries were used, etc.) he probably had three more plans set to take its place.
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is the scene with the crime bosses and he slams the hood's face down on the pencil as a "magic trick."
That is what the Joker does. He does "magic tricks." Acts of murder and mayhem so crazy, yet you have no idea how he pulled it off. And the thing is about a magic trick is that you know a trick was involved, and want to know how the magician did it, but he'll never tell you. You're left guessing, and usually the real answer is incredibly simple. -
He is a PLANNER. A Master Planner who has plan A, B, C, D, & E all in his little head. You stop Plan A, he goes right to plan B. And if Plan B does pan out he has a dozen more to follow up on, or to start depending on what his enemies do.
He's like a chess player who has set you up to lose in a dozen different ways, and is just waiting for you to chose your own downfall. -
It is much more succinct.
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*sniffs* Maybe I took the bait, but I'm dubious... Bruce's looking pretty long in the tooth on Burn Notice these days... not that it matters.
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Because I'd rather talk about that fantastic classic than how many holes there are in TDK (sure Joker had plenty of henchmen, AsimovLives, and they were all supposedly psychotics, which makes them FANTASTIC AT FOLLOWING ORDERS AND NOT AT ALL KILLING EACH OTHER OR THE JOKER OR HOSTAGES AND DRAWING ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES 24/7 but whatever). Anyway, Annie Hall. Removing the artist from his deeds aside for a moment, Annie Hall is more interesting from a story progression POV since SW is a blatant Hero's Journey. Now there's nothing *wrong* with Hero's Journey, it's just predictable. Annie Hall also utilizes more interesting storytelling techniques. There's talking to the viewer, internal dialogue externalized, an animated sequence. SW has... um... screen wipes? An opening credit crawl? I'm not looking to be dismissive of Star Wars as it 100% deserves its place as a cultural phenomenon and influence on modern science fiction epics. But I'm definitely looking to dismiss the notion that it was just some bias against science fiction/fantasy that caused the Oscar to go to Annie Hall. Among most critics Woody Allen is a master writer and director, and most agree that Annie Hall is his best work. Star Wars isn't even considered the best of the Trilogy by most.
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But how does it compare to the human centipede? Now that's a film of true imagination and intelligence,a powerful film!
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I feel that a movie has to have a warmness about it, or around its characters. It has to make you care about those characters--to the point where you feel that you are vicariously living through them, or at least, the lead, but with "The Prestige", there was really none of that, save for small moments at the beginning of the film, from there on, we were watching as if flies on the wall, however, we...as an audience...weren't made to feel immersed in the action--with a stake in the outcome of the story. Nolan needs to work on that in his films. Technically, he has all the bases covered as a director, but he seems to lack emotional understanding for the characters in his movies...in terms of knowing how to emotionally move and engage (involve) an audience. For instance, with "TDK", we watched Rachel and Bruce interact and speak of the woes of their relationship, but we never got to be inside their relationship to feel their love, and know what was at risk, and that is a big flaw, for when Rachel dies, and in the aftermath of her death, we should see the devastating impact on Bruce and understand it, but first, you need to glimpse how very deep that relationship is so you know what it means when Bruce loses her. As well, we should have known what it means for Rachel to give-up Bruce for the greater good, so he will continue on...helping the innocent, and stopping crime as Batman. It would have added 10 to 20 minutes to the film, but it would have been well worth it. Subtract (edit-out) the wholly unnecessary Batman Avengers from the film, Scarecrow, the reporter who was blackmailing Bruce Wayne (and related scenes), as well as the trip to China, and the film's running time would have remained the same, that by adding in the aforementioned scenes that should have been in the film, where a deeper exploration of Rachel and Bruce's romance...and its impact on Harvey, and the impact of the Rachel/Harvey romance on Bruce. It would have been a far better film, if the fat of the other unnecessary scenes had been trimmed--and more emotional relationship scenes had been added in their place. Nolan and Brother were more caught-up in plotting, than character development. For instance, did you notice, Wayne had no social life other than Rachel, Alfred and a few other interactions? For movie trying to play real world in tone, it rung false? Bruce just sits around in business suits all day with Alfred...and talks about the Joker while scanning newspapers, where is the emotion in that?
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the only valid one is the school bus not showing damage.Joker has the mob, the crazies, the police, and who else knows working for him...and he's a master planner. The taking control of the mob, taking their money, killing of the judge/police commissioner, being captured to escape to kill rachel was ALL set up to make Harvey Dent go bad...remember his dialogue at the end to Bats: "You thought that my grand scheme was to fist fight you on the roof?".He plays chess, not checkers. My guess is those plots were being set up a few months ahead of time. Heck, they could've been planting barrells in the ferries while the cops/batman were rushing to the wherehouses to get dent and rachel...
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I think The Joker had a laundry list of plans in effect, but he sticks to his original plans even when they try to backfire on him, like when the Bank guy tried to shoot him. What plan did he have backed up then? He had to shoo the two guys to get out.
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1.) Memento
2.) Insomnia
3.) Batman Begins
4.) The Prestige
5.) The Dark Knight
6.) Inception
Can you name one that sucks? Or is only mediocre? Honestly, none of them are.Fanboy hating aside, it's obvious to most people that Nolan films all have great stories, serious actors turning in real performances, and great dedication to the craft of making a good film.In Nolan I Trust. (and I will, until he makes a film that I don't like) -
Jul 06, 2010 6:31:26 PM CDT
You are aware that Memento was not Nolan's debut, yes?
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
His first film was 'Following', a b & w noir made for the princely sum of $6000 (or the equivalent in UK pounds).Also, what's this sycophantic 'In Nolan We Trust' bullshit that keeps getting repeated ad nauseam like some drone catchphrase? He's good all right, but don't lay it on so thick.
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Why? Because he is practically suicidal and willing to take crazy risk that no one else would. Hell, his entire goal is to push Batman to kill him. Pretty hard to stop a guy who is so out-come independent.
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But PRESTIGE and BATMAN BEGINS were only slightly above mediocre, and none of his films are at that CHINATOWN, GODFATHER, GOODFELLAS level yet IMO. MEMENTO is his only great film in my opinion.
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Brilliant. And he would fit in perfectly with the actors he's employed thus far. I am of the belief that British actors have much more in common with our older American actors than present day homegrown "talent." Ray Winstone, Ian McShane, Bob Hoskins, Tom Wilkinson... these guys are true grit. I can't name any American contemporaries that measure up in the toughness category. Gene Hackman is retired. Roy Scheider is dead. John Wayne is spinning in his grave over this TWILIGHT series. We've become a nation of wankers.
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I love trolling ya, but seriously...those guys are fuckin assholes and their movies are shit. Your average NORMAL guy doesn't even know who the fuck those dudes are...and they shouldn't. They make whack-ass college film school movies. Maybe that's why you like them. Your eccentric or gay or whatever. First off, REAL COMEDIES DON'T WIN OSCARS...hell they don't even get considered. 2nd, Woody has been molesting for years. He just wasn't caught until the 90's. He was banging out Soon Yi when he first met Mia Farrow in 1980. He wasn't just banging Soon Yi either, his other kids were also molested by him. So in conclusion "birds of a feather stick together", and that's why you love Woody soooooo much. FIN
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No, he WASN'T punishing Batman! The Joker's plan was to turn Harvey Dent from a good citizen to a mob guy. And Batman got in the way.
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1)Memento2)The Prestige3)The Dark Knight4)Following5) Insomnia6)Batman Begins. With Batman Begins being a solid blockbuster but only on the Iron Man level or slightly above.For comparison sake, every Kubrick film (discounting the meddled studio production Spartacus and the two amateur efforts, Fear and Desire and Killer's Kiss) is better than Memento, save Lolita and The Killing which are still better than anything BUT Memento. Nolan still has a long, long way to go to reach Kubrick's level, if indeed he ever does.
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Allen and Polanski's best movies are far from shit. That cannot be denied, no matter the mucky details of their private lives. Allen's films since the mid-90's have been largely indulgent crap, though, I give you that.
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Not even going to waste my time with you troll. FIN.
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Joker called out Batman- he murdered that fat guy in the batsuit, demanded that Batman reveal himself and then blew up Bats' girl. And turning Harvey from good to evil was his way of showing Batman that people are inherently not good, which he sought to prove further with the ferry boats. He wanted to make Batman break his one rule, and even if he couldn't succeed, he wanted to isolate Batman from the rest of the world, which he did accomplish. Joker changed the game and he actually won in the end. All Batman did was adjust his stature as a hero to outcast, as a way to deny Joker the small victory of ruining Harvey Dent's reputation.
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Why do movie reviews always replace smart with brilliant to describe somebody in a movie that's mart?
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Jul 06, 2010 7:16:42 PM CDT
Ahhh Cobra--Kai, my special little AICN fan...
by mjs_cold_dead_pale_corpse
I see that you have been a good little inmate and earned time on the prison's computer. So are you attending Comic Con like all good AICN trolls? I got my tickets. I got my whole trip planned out to the minute too. I'm gonna see Harry, and Stan Lee, and hopefully you. I can spare at least 5 minutes to see you and bounce your head off the ground...you've earned it! Here's how it will all go down: I will spend about 4:59 laughing and making fun of your soft pear-shaped body and then I will spend about 1 second throwing a overhand right into your zit-covered temple putting you to sleep for the rest of the day. Then I might spend an additional 5 - 10 minutes taking pictures with various ComicCon attendees dressed like Storm Troopers or Klingons while standning over your fat unconscious body. Then I'll upload the photos and post them (with TinyUrl ofcourse) on AICN so everyone can share in our experience. Because everyone loves to see a loud-mouth-bitch silenced with a closed fist.
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PUSH Batman. His entire goal is to corrupt and destroy peoples most cherished beliefs. Batman won't kill but Joker wants to prove that those beliefs are an illusion and that anyone can be a killer, like him. "Anything that doesn't kill you makes you stranger." i.e. a killer like himself.
Harvey Dent was just another tool to push Batman and hopefully break him. -
troll troll trolly troll!
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I never go to conventions but I would make an exception to meet with you. I'm sure I would enjoy it.
I'll wait for your "tough guy" bravado and laugh to myself in 3...2...1... -
Jul 06, 2010 7:23:54 PM CDT
Hey I found a pic of Cobra--Kai and Continentalop!!!!
by mjs_cold_dead_pale_corpse
http://tinyurl.com/2vhoxc6
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Ya want some hawaiian punch?
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No. "The only valid one" according to YOU. Plenty of others have found various complaints/flaws perfectly valid. And I'd argue the point, except I did it when the movie premiered, then a few weeks later, then a few weeks after that, then a few months after that, then etc. until finally I realized that I was mostly shouting at brick walls.
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how about a knuckle sandwich
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a cock-meat sandwich
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What days are you going to be there? Let's make this happen.
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The cock-meat sandwich, I know your type. Thursday and Friday chunky.
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trall la lal lah lah....
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No need shooting lip if you actually want to meet. Save the talk until then. If fact, why even talk, you can show me exactly what you think of me in person. I live in LA, so getting to Comic Con shouldn't be that hard, or you could meet me up here.
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FYI - Apparently, MJs_Cold_Dead_Pale_Corpse is/was also known as:GarysMidgetCorpse, CaptainCarnage, HARRYIZAFAGGOT, Charger26, & HARRYIZABITCH.So, if that little shitstain's "charm" smells familiar, there you go.
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porkchop. I'm from San Diego. I'll whoop your ass in and outside of the convention. Lol, you sociopaths are so easy to get riled up...and beat up.
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How you be?
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I thought you died of AIDS?!
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Woody Allen is inimitable. George Lucas is imminently imitable. (Excuse me while I untie my tongue. Here you go.) The only writer/director who can make a better romantic comedy than "Annie Hall" is Woody Allen, something he proved with "Manhattan." No one else can imitate him. Watch "When Harry Met Sally" and "Annie Hall" back to back for proof. There's a reason no one does that double feature. Lucas is different. Only three years after "Star Wars," Leigh Brackett, Lawrence Kasdan and Irwin Kirschner made a better Star Wars movie than Lucas, "Empire Strikes Back." I know that's just my opinion, but it's widely shared, and even those who prefer "A New Hope," consider "Empire" a worthy follow-up. Lucas's example laid the ground for every sci-fi blockbuster ever since, and showed the way to go for everyone from James Cameron to Gore Verbinsky to, yes, Michael Bay. The only one who couldn't imitate the efficient, propulsive, populist spectacle of "Star Wars" is Lucas himself. Whatever the relative merits of "Annie Hall" and "Star Wars," the first one is a personal expression of the film maker; the second an example of a film maker momentarily taking the reins of something larger than himself, before being almost instantly thrown off.
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help out a fellow pedophile in need? Continentalop could sure use your help.
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Doing alrighty, sir. Thanks. You? I assume that you're looking forward to seeing what Nolan's been cookin' with this flick, eh?
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Not nearly long enough, cocksucker!!!
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Are ya gonna get Continentalop's back...and fuck it.
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Just because people have been aping STAR WARS (including Lucas) ever since shouldn't diminish the importance of Lucas' original work. I'm a big Lucas basher, but I can't diminish what he pulled off with that first film. It's a flawed film in many small ways, but he understood his audience and he knew how to rouse them. That's a great filmmaker, even if it was for one film.
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You want to drive up we can meet at Legends Gym in Hollywood. It is located on Santa Monica Blvd. If you can't I am sure I can find a gym down there we can meet at. Or we could just meet at the convention. Your call.
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To back up what you've been saying. I mean, I am just a homo pedophile film geek according to you. What do you have to worry about, right?
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I've been spoiler free, so the reviews aren't really factoring into my excitement. I'm glad the advance word is positive, but I've reached the point where I don't go in with any set expectations with any movie. I think the aforementioned Lucas killed the hopeful film-goer inside of me with that last INDIANA JONES flick.
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And I have glasses and asthma.
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Nope.
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I'm sure that's where you practice your brazilian jiu jitsu. Look bitch, your gonna have to eats ye spinach if you think you can hang with me. But, I go on leave mid July and I'll be in Lakeside, which is part of San Diego County by the 20th. I'll be on AICN everyday until then. So as the 20th gets closer and your balls shrink a little more, we can keep in touch on the talkbacks if you really want to test your size.
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You made the Warrior laugh with that cocksucker line.
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Joker had no intention of "turning" Dent. He planned to kill him. By explosion. On what planet does tying a guy to explosives and then detonating said explosives constitute an effort to influence that guy's opinion/personality? Joker didn't "blow up Bats' girl" because Joker didn't know about Dawes' relationship with Bruce NOR that Bruce = Batman. At most he knew that Batman would jump out a window for her (as opposed to another innocent party, which while I understand wouldn't be efficient sure would demonstrate that Batman gives a shit about someone OTHER than Bruce's personal friends and lovers, you know, like a real vigilante hero - an element sorely lacking in TDK). And I agree with the read on the ferry boat situation, which only goes to show even further how up its own ass that script was. Seriously, the climax of our comic book movie or crime drama or whatever you want to call it involves the antagonist creating an elaborate morality exercise/detente metaphor? Over which the antagonist waxes philosophical with the protagonist? I felt like the movie was giving me a Philosophy 101 lecture. Fuck. That. Nonsense.
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I told you I would meet you. Only guys who talk shit when a guy has AGREED to meet with them is someone who is planning on backing out. I'm not backing out.
You want to meet, lets make this happen. No need to try to sound tough because I am willing to let you prove it. You can show just how tough you are.
And no, that is not where I study BJJ. Besides, they don't even teach BJJ there - they call it 10th Planet Jiu-jitsu at a Legends. -
Liberal...lol that's like confessing that you're a bitch
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I hear ya. It's funny trying to steer clear of spoilers on this one. While I'd love to know more details, I've grown weary of having initial viewing experiences tainted by reviews and such. These days, I just try to enjoy films while daring them to impress me.As for Lucas and KOTCS, the less said about that unholy couple the better. It may be the most disappointing cinematic experience I've ever had.
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Woody Allen hasn't made a good movie in Decades.
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But it doesn't mean ANNIE HALL wasn't good.
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aicnfight2010@yahoo.com. Let's keep in touch, I created it just for you
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I don't expect we'll agree on these points ever, but I appreciate your taking the time to write our your opinions intelligently:
1) Joker gambled that Batman would save Dawes, and he was right- that's why he put Harvey in the place he said Dawes would be. He saw something more than Batman willing to just save a random girl from the fundraiser. He bet big on that one and he was right- Joker is not a dumb guy. I wonder if he actually knew Batman's secret identity. But in any case, the script firmly establishes Joker's observations of Batman & Rachael through the interrogation scene.
2) Is the movie preachy? I agree with that statement. No arguments there. I would only say that Joker's arsenal goes beyond guns and hoodlums and he represents a more modern, real-life threat in TDK (that of a terrorist, not a criminal). Terrorists want to take down the system because they see it as evil or flawed. Joker wasn't in it for the money, agreed? -
HA! Much obliged. Always good to see the Warrior.
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Thank you. I was bored and you took the bait. You beetle dicked, goat raping, pucker lipped licker of an inflamed diseased wombat pussy. Bring it.
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And remember, no need to back out. I'm a tiny guy and way out of shape. Shit, I've only fought my brother's a couple of times in my life. I'm just doing this because I want to see if you are all mouth or not. I'm willing to let myself get my ass beaten.
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Im all trolled out, catch ya next time faggot.
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After you raped your third juvenile wallaby. Hows that working out for ya champ?
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INCEPTION may be the only movie I even care to see. I saw IRON MAN 2 out of geek-duty. It was not terrible, it was not good. I've been spending more time going through old movies on video. I've probably seen more movies in the last few months than in any other period in my life. But not even 5% of those are current theatrical releases.
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That was just more of the bad plotting in the film. Two-Face should have been saved for the sequel. His appearance in "TDK" made the film over-bloated, and we were given extra story that we didn't need. They should have stuck with the Joker versus Batman conflict and ended it with the Joker's demise, capture, or disappearnace. Nolan is not a good story, or film, editor...and doesn't know when and where to cut the fat from his films.
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I love how you tried to insinuate you're in the armed forces (you said you'll be on leave), probably trying to insinuate that you're a marine. But you completely ignore my question about what your MOS is.
I've asked a bunch of guys who serve what their MOS is online, and the only ones who ignore that question are fucking frauds.
Not calling you one but...well, I guess I am. -
11 years and it's 25W. but once again, use the email.
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As soon as I am done at the office.
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I don't got to the theater much these days. And when I consider what the Hollywood machine is churning out these days, I much rather watch films of my choosing at home. (You should see my Netflix queue - nothing but older films, documentaries, and various TV series.) But every once in awhile, something comes along that looks like it deserves to be seen on the big-screen. INCEPTION definitely seems to fit that bill.Speaking of IRON MAN 2, I finally saw that about 2 weeks ago. Like you, I did it out of some sense of duty. Gotta say, I was rather disappointed. The whole film felt like one long deleted scene from the first film. There was entirely too much plot and certain scenes (like the discussion over Rourke's bird) were just flat out stupid. At this point, considering how Marvel is ramping up the other hero films (THOR and CAP), I don't see the need for a third IRON MAN.
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Inception is a reward for making a commercially successful film? What does that mean? Please, please, please tell me you aren't one of those reviewers who is too elitist to realize the worth of a film made purely to entertain -- that does not have to have tricky visual cues that only a film student would notice. Nolan's reward should be that people liked his films.
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We've reached the point where almost every TB is about trashing the shit Hollywood puts out. Yes, we've always been a cynical bunch, but now we're justifiably so! What have you watched recently that you'd recommend?
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Bloody typos.
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Two Girls One Cup
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Beaks' review is pretension to the hilt. He's the guy who majors in film at community college.
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How are you doing?
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Jul 06, 2010 8:50:32 PM CDT
Yep. And at this point, AICN needs all the help it can get.
by mr. nice gaius
Which makes me wonder what these big announcements are that Harry is supposedly cooking up...Some recent stuff would include: THE VERDICT, BRONSON, STREET FIGHT (doc), JOHN ADAMS (mini-series), DUCK SOUP, and GHOSTS OF RWANDA (Frontline doc). I'm thinking about revisiting THE YOUNG ONES here soon. Heh.
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Good to see your mug.
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Please hire Christopher Nolan and Pixar to make all summer movies from now on.
Yours truly,
The World -
What good are TOCs if they don't waste valuable resources watching scat porn.
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First post since then and I'm immediately jumped by a couple of Peebs. :>)
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I haven't seen BRONSON or STREET FIGHT. I liked the last parts of the JOHN ADAMS mini more than the first couple of episodes (particularly the Inauguration of G.W.), DUCK SOUP kills me and the other ones I've not seen yet.
I just watched PAPILLON and loved it. I also watched THE SPY WHO CAME IN FROM THE COLD- a brilliant performance by Richard Burton, check it out. -
Hey dude, ever notice you don't see any kids at Pixar movies? They're made for adults.
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Jul 06, 2010 9:00:50 PM CDT
Ted, we're the embarassing relatives at your HS graduation
by yackbacker
We smell like mothballs and we have funny haircuts!
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of having such a secure set, and all this mystery and secrecy about a movie for so long, only to turn around and let all the critics spoil it all over the internet, papers and magazines 2-3 weeks before the movie comes out?
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I had not seen it in years and all it did was make me miss Paul Newman all over again. BRONSON is a little iffy but totally worth it. It's like a modern day CLOCKWORK ORANGE and Tom Hardy's performance is incredible. (Definitely looking forward to his role in INCEPTION.) STREET FIGHT is fascinating, especially if you like local-style politics and elections.I'll add PAPILLON (don't believe I've ever seen that all the way through) and THE SPY WHO... to my queue tonight.(I must also heartily recommend SPARTACUS: BLOOD AND SAND. I know it sounds goofy but damn if that show didn't turn out to be a cool surprise.)
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It just seems like something they would have done to stop one bad leak by letting it get buried under a ton of reviews, and having confidence it would probably be well received.
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Plz uploads to da Youtube.
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I'll look into the BLOOD, SAND & BOOBS. Xena = hawt.
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What a coinkeedink.
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I'd rather watch Breaking Bad or Dexter or repeats of Sopranos for HOURS on end than spend a couple hours watching junk in a room full of people destined to annoy you with their chewing popcorn and mobile phone alerts.
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Where the sound system should adequately drown out the sounds of other people.
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Jul 06, 2010 9:23:33 PM CDT
I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY OF THE MOVIES U GUYS TALKING ABOUT
by bringingsexyback
But I will, after I catch Step Up 3D this summer.
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I'll be very happy.
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How are you, brother?
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Give it about 3-4 episodes and I think you'll be pleased. And as hawt as Xena is, she's only the tip of the nudity iceberg.
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Except for this heat wave. It's a damn scorcher!
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Maybe MJ will kick my ass and make me cry. I'm willing to give him that chance.
One thing though is I am going to guarantee confirmation. He seems like the type of guy who would bring in a ringer. -
FWIW, you already won the fight in our eyes. KO style. No need to out yourself in harm's way, for as you said you never know if he's gonna bring a ringer or friends n shit.
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You seem like a reasonable guy. Why feed the troll? In fact, why offer them a banquet with your balls as a garnish?
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summer movies worth paying almost ten bucks for this year. predators comes out this week too.
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Jul 06, 2010 9:39:31 PM CDT
YES, I DID SEE THE KATY PERRY TOPLESS PICS ON ESQUIRE
by bringingsexyback
And yes, I did pretend she was Zooey and rubbed myself raw. Thank you for asking.
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You just remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that..."Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."
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gettin your ass beat a hard pill to swallow
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I mean that sincerely. My post deserved a beatdown and you delivered.
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Jul 06, 2010 9:53:09 PM CDT
MJ ARE YOU THE TOUGHEST HOMBRE EVER TO ATTEND COMIC-CON?
by bringingsexyback
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only to you BSB
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Why worry about it now, hmmm.
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that the Dark Knight sucked? How's that workin' out for you?
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Or is it a west coast thing? I wanna see.
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It's that hot!
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good ol' cunti is the one who wanted to meet after school and fight. Here's the post: I never go to conventions but I would make an exception to meet with you. I'm sure I would enjoy it.
I'll wait for your "tough guy" bravado and laugh to myself in 3...2..." Now me being me....not passing that challenge up. I'll meet him and see what he's really about. He can bring friends too. Not worried about it.
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Dallas, Phoenix, Georgia, etc...
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Keep a tube of Eucerin Calming Creme in the fridge. Technically it's for sunburns but I got more creative uses for it ...
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I said I would be there. And if I remember right weren't you challenging Cobra first?
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A regular genius, I tellz ya!
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Jul 06, 2010 10:06:53 PM CDT
ACTUALLY THE WAY I READ IT WAS CONTIPOPS AIDING HIS BUD
by bringingsexyback
Cobra-Kai ... and I'm a pretty good reader.
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Thanks Yack! That's a title I'll wear proudly.
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Jul 06, 2010 10:09:31 PM CDT
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I can agree that he is a chess player, and probably had several plans in the works, but still, I have a hard time with all these explosives being placed and NOBODY noticed anything unusual. Not like it is a small amount either....again, I loved TDK, and I am honestly not trying to detract it, but to say it is without flaw, IMO is not correct. Is it close to being flawless? Yea I will say that, and I believe what flaws are there are too little to detract from the overall greatness of the film.
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so I can forget what the corporate gangsters are doing to our country, if only for a couple of hours.
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But I don't think the Joker is one of them. Like I said above, he is a magician. He makes things happen and we can't explain how.
In fact it is very close to how he was when he first appeared in Batman #1. The Joker would kill all these people and pull of these elaborate plans despite Police and Batman interference, and never once did they truly explain how he did it. Joker was always supposed to be a little "supernatural" in a way. Or at least seem almost supernatural. -
that fucker is whacked out.
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That guy should try making all those bad mortgages disappear. THEN I'll give the guy some credit as a magician. Until then... no sale.
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He'd be handing out numbers like a bakery.
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You bought a do-it-yourself pussy maker kit.
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you got a real pussy with all the trimmings
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but I'll wait till your dad is finished
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1. Batman becomes a secondary character, just like before. When Nolan made begins, a lot of the talk was how Batman was previously the least interesting character & sidelined by the villains & Nolan wanted to change that. In TDK, he repeated the same thing.
2. Omnipotent Joker. Now, some above have already addressed this & mentioned that he had henchmen who could get things done for him, but that doesn't explain how he could know exactly how each scenario would play out.
3. What happens after Joker attacks Bruce's penthouse & Batman jumps out of the window to save Rachel? Are we expected to assume he just left & nobody was harmed? -
You turned into a zoo whore and opened that ass up for Black Rhino's and horny deranged macaques.
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I figured that the corrupt cops helped get the Joker out of the Wayne Party.
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Yeah, I usually try to be cogent, or at least not slip into cursing. Which is hard to do given the aforementioned tide of disagreement, much of which is along the lines of "you're a cunt / faggot / elitist / etc." Joker definitely wasn't in it for the money, and in some ways I enjoy the mysteriousness of his motivation. I also appreciate that he's a stand-in for terrorism. My biggest problem with his character IS the fact that he's a stand-in. He's too much a reflection of the theme instead of his own character. I often felt like "okay, Joker is trying to get at Batman, to wear down his sense of righteousness and self. Great. Now... why?" And if it's just that the Joker is fucking with Batman because Batman is the only challenge big and fun enough, then I would've appreciated more Dark Knight Detective stuff. I never felt like Batman was even close to Joker's level, intellectually. I can appreciate Cat and Mouse. This was more like Cat and Ball of Gravelly Yarn. And that was my problem with a LOT of the characters. Too many of them were stand-ins for metaphors and reflective of the theme. Rachael, Dent, Bruce, or Alfred, none of them felt like *people*. Only Gordon felt like a person to me, and even he spent too much time spoon-feeding the audience. To say nothing of the sheer audacious stupidity of that armored truck sequence. Which is fun, but the minute you give it any kind of thought falls to pieces. See, look at me, shouting uselessly again. It's... so... hard... to resist...
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Particularly since Nolan removed most of the comic book-y elements, like the Red Hood back story, Joker having a smile from falling into chemicals. I assume the Joker was supposed to be as physically plausible as possible. I think, if you put some thought into it, you could think up some scenarios that made all of the Joker's plans work. Like, the barrels that went on the ferry were loaded by dock employees on a mob payroll and if the barrels were suspicious, they may have been in boxes when they were loaded, all the paperwork for the shipment was faked blah blah blah. It might be implausible, but as long as it's not IMPOSSIBLE.
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deleted scenes in TDK, some of which can be backed up by dialogue heard in the trailers but not in the film. Deleted scenesFollowing rumors that as with the DVD release for Batman Begins, The Dark Knight will not include any deleted scenes, which scenes may have been in the shooting script but unfilmed, filmed but cut, or developed by the novelization's author, Denny O'Neil, will remain ambiguous and left to speculation until official word comes from the film makers. The following are just a few of the known examples:
Numerous alternate takes, notably differences of Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker between the film and its trailers.
A great deal of backstory for Harvey Dent, including his parents, Harry and Lucy, and how Harvey came to meet Rachel.
The Joker, while posing as Bozo before his robbery of Gotham National Bank, stood on the sidewalk waiting for his men to pick him up. An elderly woman stood near him and he slipped her a hundred dollar bill, either to walk away or keep silent about seeing him there.
The Chechen had a lackey named Burton who told him about Scarecrow, and set up the meeting for them.
Scarecrow sold his drug to a junkie for little money, then after he took the drug was killed by Scarecrow, with the intention of learning its effects.
Apparently originally a knife held the note to Brian Douglas' chest, but an alternate scene was filmed showing the note held by a pin.
Following the charity event in Bruce's penthouse, the following scene takes place: The Joker looked back toward the penthouse as his getaway car sped away. He breathed hard, exhilarated even as a stream of blood ran down his face. He smacked the back of the driver's seat. Driver: "What do we do about Dent?" The Joker: "I'm a man of my word."
Instead of saying he's going after Rachel, Batman said "Dent knew the risks."
Rachel's last words before dying: "Bruce. Harvey. I love you."
Gordon made it clear that the Joker switched the locations of Rachel and Harvey in his directions.
After blowing up the hospital and getting in the bus, a small excised scene takes place in the bus as it escapes, with particular attention going towards the fact that the Joker doesn't look back at the exploding hospital.
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Obviously The Joker doesn't know how EVERY scenario will play out, (hence the ferry scene), but up until that point he's supposed to be able to not only plan these elaborate schemes, but know exactly what Batman/The police/anyone else involved will do.
That's not too much of a flaw in a movie about a man dressed as a bat & fighting crime though. -
That MJs_Cold_Dead_Pale_Corpse has some serious man boobs, made of what look to be pure muscle. He's also got a couple of outrageously lame tattoos to boot. Though I'm sure he's got some sweet Celtic shit on those bitchin biceps of his. Which makes me wonder, why is a bro posting here anyway? Shouldn't he be out dropping Roofies in some Freshman's wine cooler or maybe paddling some fraternity pledge with his other closeted frat brothers? http://tinyurl.com/2bxtudn
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Now THOSE really are man boobs!
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LOVED Street Fight. "Ah'm Shahp James..."
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He seems almost "supernatural", not that he is. He's like guys like Keyser Soze, Lecter and Anton Chiguhr, guys who almost seem superhuman.
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Not just movies but television, movies, books, etc. Pretty depressing, is there such a thing as pop culture alienation?
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He must stand 5 foot nothing.
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so you're a female phone operator? Signal Corps is an MOS in the Army dominated by women. What are you going to do, get the rest of the ladies in your squad together and strangle Continetalops with commo wire?
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to convince the world he's sane and we can all see how that one is working out, or not working out in his case.
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Was a great fucking name. All you ass heads with similar copycat names are fucking posers. Get an original thought.
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Good Lord that was one big stinky fart. You put that up with APOCALYPSE NOW and LAWRENCE of ARABIA? Man, i would understand if you used RAGING BULL, GOODFELLAS or TAXI DRIVER...but GANGS? The whole movie looked and felt like a High School production (with the exception of D. Lewis's 'Butcher Bill'). Please, if ya wanna be credible, take it back.
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He is a character, surely he must be.
Some people use the annoymity of the internet for trolling, trying to be tough and trying to make up for obvious inadequacies, other people use it as a playing ground, a place to be someone else.
I am convinced Media Messiah is either a writer on this site or an acting student, though it would be hillarious if he was someone like Michael Bay. -
haven't seen any pre Spartacus, any recommendations ?
2001 is my favourite then A Clockwork Orange and the Shining.
Sadly not a huge fan of Eyes Wide Shut.
Bit biased when it comes to Samurai movies so for me I prefer Kurosawa's work over Kubrick, but what a director he was.
Nolan for me is the best director of the last 10 years and has the track record to show it. As great as he is still very early days, lets see where he is in 20 years time. -
MM is a real life nut job. Nobody that isn't insane could have that level of commitment. Hell even JettL93 breaks character once in awhile.
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I can't wait to see Inception, but thanks to your review I heard about a movie called Primer, which had somehow slipped under my radar. It turns out the whole movie is on youtube. I watched it and it has made this one of the best summers for movies ever! Jesus on toast that was a great fucking movie!!! Primer! I think you might be me reminding myself to watch this movie that I earlier came back and tricked myself into not watching when it first came out! But I'm not gonna fall for it this time!
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The Killing is Kubrick's best pre-Spartacus IMHO.
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This review is the alpha and omega of reviews I will read until I see it. Chris Nolan, count my 10 bucks yours!
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It's making 3d seem as silly as it should be.
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there would be a reuirement for an amazing level of commitment there.
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agreed. To be that committed you have to be nuts.
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Sweet Holy Christ walking across the hillocks of Galilee. Delicious.
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will check it out
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we never heard of writes a bad review.
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ssing PRIMER on you tube. You sure it was there?
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Bale's Batman voice! Towards the end of the movie, during the dramatic scenes, I can't help but cringe every time I hear Bale's throaty growl. I can deal with small plot holes and minor inconsistencies, but somebody during post-editing had to have realized how cheesy Bale sounds when saying more than 3 words in the Batman voice. Also, Eckhart's "Rachel!" screams were hammy. hopefully they will fix this in the next installment because it takes me right out of an otherwise great film every time.
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I'm nothing if not hypre-critical. I have complained and pointed out flaws in movies form filmmakers and movies i like. I can turn my opinion on directors that i conce liked, likethe case of Zemeckis. Thus, i don«'t do defenses for defenses sake, or criticism for criticism sake. The so-called flaws that many of you see in ñolan's movies, specially THE DARK KNIGHT, io se them as petty, and as atempts to try to find big flaws into a very good movie that ended up popular. I do notice that in USA and UK there is a dentency, even an entertaiment, based on the putting up and bringing down of creative people. In fact, something tells me that INCEPTION will get the most negative reactions from the people in here of the whole Nolan career. This is what i expect, given how some people act about TDK trying to find big ass flwas or lots of smaller ones to find cracks in the movie. INCEPTION will be hunting time for the geeks here. Forthose who want to refuse the notion that this Nolan fellow, so far he really seems to know what he's doing.I defend Nolan's movies because, so far as i can tell, all the flaws pointed out to his movies are just hogwash.
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Here you go. http://tinyurl.com/primerpart1 And here's a nice chart to help make sense of the damned thing.. http://tinyurl.com/primerchart
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The wonders of pre-planing. Despistes the Joker's claims that he's improvising as he goes along, his actions reveal the exact opposite. It's all part of the plan.
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Psychotics can be great at following orders. Ever heard of the Nazi SS?
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I was wondering what had happened to FAGGOT. Actually, i wasn't, i had completly forgotten about FAGGOT.
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Media Messiah's mission in life is not working very well. He's a voice in the wilderness without much of an echo, if you know what i mean.
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Cobra--Kai strode across the ash strewn plain. The charred ground crunching under his mighty footsteps.
'There was a flame war fought here', he mused, 'a big one'.
His eyes scanned the horizon for fatalities. None. Just dark smoke and soot. Then he saw it...
Curled in a foetal position. Frozen like a victim of Pompei. A little runt. MJs cold dead pale corpse. 'Not so cold now actually' thought Cobra in grim amusement at the still smoking body.
Cobra unzipped himself and holding aloft the mighty serpent proceeded to relieve himself all over MJ. The piss turned to steam and Cobra laughed. Loud and hearty.
MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! -
There is nothing, NOTHING, int hat film that sets up a climax that includes electric cloning. And no, a shot of a bunch of hats at the outset is not sufficient world building or foreshadowing for that. This is to say nothing of the fact that Bale's character, while meaning to send Jackman on a wild goose chance, just HAPPENS to send him on a wild goose chase to a man who just HAPPENS to build an electric cloning machine able to exactly replicate Bale's trick. That's some pretty coincidental bad luck on Bale's part. That's lazy screenwriting 101. And PLEASE keep in mind I have nothing against Nolan and that The Dark Knight is one of my top ten favorite films of all time. But the Prestige has a masssive flaw, whether you can live with it or not is immaterial.
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It's very obvious that the voice is another mask to disguise who he is, Bruce Wayne. It's a pretty nice detail, in fact, and it makes sense. I really don't understand the complain about it. What would people want instead? That he would speak with his normal voice? Sing his lines in falsetto as Batman? The voice is a necessary ruse to disguise his identity. Wayne is, in the words of Falconi in the first movie, Gotham's own prodigal son, one would need to go 1000 miles away to not heard of him. So, Wayne being the most recognizable person in gotham, and he wouldn't pull a voice disguise? He might as well ut a neo sign saying "I'm Bruce Wayne" otherwise.One thing that amuses me and boggles my mind is the people who complain about Batman's voice and yet loved everything about Rorscharch in THE WATCHMEN, including his voice, of which he only speaks in a very raspy fashion. Even raspier then Batman. Double standards much?Whenever i see that "Batman Voice" criticism, i think it's one of those lame easy criticism which is not very well though out, it's the kind of stuff people come up with just to try to sound clever, while not. I mean, one should put a bit more of though into a criticism, and not just based it on some knee jerk reaction.
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Jul 07, 2010 4:31:31 AM CDT
And if there is a flaw in the Two Face TDK conclusion
by industrykiller!
it's that Eckhart, after putting in a damned near Oscar worthy portrayal of Harvey Dent throughout most of the film, doesn't quite nail Two Face's insanity and duality. I suspect this might be Nolans fault though. Also the decision to have him go after Gordons family, of all people, seems a little perplexing. You can sort of justify it with the talk in the beginning about Dent telling Gordon his men are corrupt, but it's certainly not the STRONGEST dramatic choice.
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The problem you find with THE PRESTIGE, which i don't, is that only by the sencond half of the movie you notice you have bveen watching a science ficton movie all along. The thing is, why should a science fiction has to anounce it's own genre right from the bat? If we can be so easy on the other genres, why not SF too?THE PRESTIGE is a SF movie. And a bloody good one at that. And the ending is brillant, if you think about it.
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... which he really was, and Thomas Edison as the conniving thief which he really was, deserves respect in my book. One detail more of why i love the movie so much.
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it's kind of like at the end of Saving Private Ryan, the Nazis about to take the bridge, and Tom Hanks summons a dragon, then saying Saving Private Ryan is a brilliant Fantasy film.Ok ok I know it's not THAT extreme, but you get my meaning. I don't know if a film has to so much announce it's genre, but I don't think The Prestige even really dabbles in it until that moment. And I don't think setting up Tesla as being an ambiguously shady dude counts. A cinematic world and it's possibilities should at least be in the reaches of the imagination of the viewer after the first act and a half, otherwise you are heading into very dangerous territory, in which the filmmaker gets to cheat by changing the rules at random to write himself out of corners. I think Nolan does that in The Prestige. Moreover, i think the cloning aspect changes the theme of the film and robs it of a very human element of obsession. Doing something morally ambiguous out of selfish need when it comes to ridiculous impossibilities is a very different thing than crossing those same boundaries in a very relateable and real way. I thought the film was going for the latter and then it just arbitrarily switcharoos into the former. I'll say though that the acting and directing in that film are fucking fantastic, it's just that cheat that bothers me.
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I mean talk about using a guys real life legend to sort of catapult that otherworldly quality into the next level. Nolan can cast a film, man.
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I think Eckhart played Harvey's duality quite well. The movie seeds Harvey's darker side constantly throughout it. They evne do a subtle cinematography trick to pull it out. notice that whenever Harvey acts like a all around boyscout nice guy, his face is lighted from the direction of where he will still retain his face later on. When Harvey acts like a ballsbreaker or when he shows a darker side, his face is lighted on the side which late will be disfigured. Chekc out the movie again and notice that detail. And all this build up to Harvey's final mental state. I saw no problem, or as you call it, flaws in that at all either. THE DARK KNIGHT works a charm for me, or any other Nolan movie for that matter. and i find it particulary amuzing that people are so forgiving about dumbed down stupid movies like those made by Michelle Bay or make huge efforts to not take notice of the deep flaws found in Jar Jar Abrams's PSEUDO TREK, and yet go all jihad and extreme about some perceived flaws in nolan's movies, specially THE DARK KNIGHT, all of them which have been very sucessfully explained and defended by others then me.THE DARK KNIGHT is truly a smart movie, and not one of those which pretend to be smart like THE DAVINCI CODE. All this stuff truly boggles my mind. If people spent more effort criticising the truly dumb shitty instead of wasting in minor quarels about perceived flaws in truly good movies which don't really have much of them, that would be time and effort more well spent.
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Actually, i do have a problem with the ending of SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, and not so much about the last minute cavalry charge of the P-47 and the army detail. And that's because, even with tthat, Hanks still dies, which was unexpected. no, my problem with that movie is the same with the begining: i fucking detested the bookends with the old gezzer. For reasons beyond understanding, they decided that the old gezzer was Ryan, which makes absolutly no bloody ense at all. How the hell could that PARATROOPER had any memory of the D-Day Omaha landing fight? Other then that, SAVING PRIVATE RYAN is cinematic heaven.
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Smart movies are far more entertaining, you ass.
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And the movie THE PRESTIGE doesn't portait Tesla as ambiguous, merely as a recluse, which he was. And with good reason, because he was plagued with Thomas "Piece Of Shit" Edison's spies and sabouters. In fact, in the movie, Tesla is shown as a man of great integrity, which he was. If anything, he shows himself to be a bit naive (which he was) because he was fooled into helping Hugh Jackson, the movie's true villain of the piece. In fact, Tesla in THE PRESTIGE is fooled again by a man without scruples as he once was with Thomas Edison. and of course, the casting of David Bowie was brillant. I always love to see Bowie in a movie, the dude can really act, for a musician.
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On my Harvey Dent point. Im exclusively talking about Eckhart AFTER he has made the transition to Two Face, up until that point I agree he's brilliant and all the pieces for a great Two Face are there. But I think Nolan made a mistake by not making Two Face an actual split personality like in the comic, someone who is clinically insane. He seems more just driven by rage than by an alter ego he has literally no control over. I would have liked them to hew closer to the source material on that one as one of the comic counterparts most distinguishing character features is that Two Face is an actual split personality of Harvey Dent, they either didn't have the time or inclination to do that properly.
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And i'm glad you liked the other elements in THE PRESTIGE. The thing about that movie, as i already mentioned, is that it's a SF movie which you only learn about that later in the story. And that's due to the period setting of the story. but notice one thing about the movie: the way it was shot and edited, it's in the fashion of a contemporaenan movie, ad not done like the usual period movie. It's another one of the subtle lcues the movie does to tell the audiences that there is more to it then at first sight. Also, the SF genre that it only later openly presents as, that is another one of those magic tricks that the movie constantly does, mirroing the subject and the two main characters of the story.Yeah, i really like THE PRESTIGE.
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I'm portuguese, i don't give a fuck about the 4th of july.
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Correct me if i'm wrong, ebcause in this you seem to know mroe then i do, but from what i understand about the subjec,t there seem to be two school of thoughs about the presentation of Harvey Dent, even in the comics. On one hand, Harvey is shown as suffering a truly extreme case of dissociative identity disorder (once called multiple personality disorder). On the other hand, other times he's presented as a person who changed personality very radically, which does cause him madness due to the stress of the change. And i think the later is how Dent was presented in Nolan's movie. So, i don't think the movie presents a version of Dent too divorced form what has been done before. But you can explain me in more detail if that's correct, i'm sure.And did you had noticed that cinematography trick to the face of Eckhart whenever they present harvey Dent and depending of his moods? I loved that stuff. And funny enough, i picked it up in the first viewing. It's the thing about Nolan's movies for me, they make me pay attention to them when i watch them, it makes me participative in the viewing. And i don't pick up on all the details, which is why for me all of Nolan's movies made since BATMAN BEGINS are multiple viewing experiences for me, and each time i watch them they get better and better. Can't wait for INCEPTION.
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It would seem that the Dom Cobb character is similar to Leonard Shelby in Memento in that Leonard is manipulated both by Teddy and also Natalie just as it appear Dom Cobb is. I'll have to see Inception and report back. Memento is my all-time favorite film. I am really looking forward to Inception.
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It's okay. But we REALLY wanna know-where'd you get those Ledger Underroos?? and how did you manage to get them in Goat size-?? that's an amazing look you've come up w/. Federation Redshirt, JokerRoos and Spock Ears, in the Almada Goat populace. You are a GENIUS, Asslives!!! My hat's off to you! One of your goats has sued you for palimony-
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You and me, brother.
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Recent great movie seen: Elite Squad. I encourage you to check it out if you have not seen it.
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threats and insults, and then scamper away when actually challenged.
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Elite Squad, the brazilian movie?
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Yes.
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Haven't seen it yet but have heard nothing but good things about it.
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To contrast from Mr Beaks. Mr Beaks' opinions for me are aleways suspect, evne about the good movies. Remember, he's the guy who loved BAD BOYS II and equated Mickey Bay with Samuel Breckett. Mr Beaks can say strange shit like that. And then there's his Best Of The Decade list (Bring It On above The Dark Knight??). And the other positive review is from Devin Faraci, a guy who is, well, strange. We really need another perspective about INCEPTION.
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Acting is top-notch and the story/drama is quite good. A brutal, unflinching look at the BOPE and the conditions in Rio de Janiro in '97. Those conditions may very well still exist there. I've only passed through there a couple of times over the last few years.
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Asi, your wish is my command. I have the review of INCEPTION in my hands.
I'm not going to type the whole thing out but it's uber positive - 5 stars out of 5. Although it seems to caution the film may be too brainy for the unwashed masses. Here's the summation:
"Like THE MATRIX mated with SYNEDOCHE NEW YORK - or a Charlie Kaufman 007."
"To paraphrase CASINO ROYALE's Vesper Lynd, it's a meaningful pursuit in a summer of disposable entertainments. With physics-defying, thunderous action, heart-wringing emotion and an astonishing performance from DiCaprio, Nolan delivers another true original."
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*From EMPIRE magazine* I should have added...
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Both Inception and Predators are at 100% on RT maybe the summer can be saved after all
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Was the Money shot or lack thereof at the end. It would have been more impactive (For me) if it was a vast wide shot of the room and all it's "occupants" rather than showing only a few of them then fading to black.
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I am not trying to convince the world of anything, rather, I am only attempting to convince VIPs at Warner Brothers--should some of them happen upon these Talkbacks so they will begin to fix these flaws when they pop-up in any other future Batman productions, or Nolan directed, or produced, comic book based films, and head these issues off before they reach film screens. And BTW, they, the VIPs, do check such postings and fan related sites, therein for fan reactions to media stories, many of which, the studios announce as trial balloons to measure fan reactions, not necessarily for purposes of truth and informing the public of their intentions. Back to me. I also hope my words serve as talking points for other fans who were also displeased with TDK, to debate this issue with others. Word of mouth is powerful, and if you have enough people talking about an issue, it eventually filters upward to the powers that be. The following may sound sarcastic or mean-spirited, but it is not meant that way--no, it is an observation, not an attack. Just about the best thing that happened to TDK...was in fact...Heath Ledger's death, because it gave Warner massive amounts of publicity and a platform to play the sympathy card, while taking cover for a flawed film behind the sadness over Ledger's passing. If that had not occurred, Ledger's passing, I am certain TDK would have received largely split reviews, upfront, by fans and media alike, and far slower box office. Warner dodged a bullet, but next time they might not be so lucky, unless Nolan manages to hit the right emotional beats in the next film, and trim the fat in his, and his Brother's, writing.
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Good times. Oh since you were wondering Cunti. I'm 5'9" 190, lift weights on a regular basis and I drink milk....from your moms titties. It does a body good. The bitches in the picture were Amazonians...cause that's what I like...big girls. I got more pics, if ya wanna size me up some more. Hell, I'll even post pics of my cock after I black out your moms face from them. After browsing through your facebook and seeing your buds...I'm getting the impression that I'm going to go to jail for assaulting a minor. Are serious dude, what are your 20. What up Asimov! Ya trolling bitch!
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Every month i buy EMPIRE, SFX and TOTAL FILM. So, this means the month's issue has the review. Sweet. Or i might just check out their website, their online reviews. Thanks for the heads up, friend.
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You must feel really lonely.
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... to see the different AICN alumi posting their reviews, even including such freelancers as Vern and Alexandra DuPond.
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You must be one of those nancyboys who mistakes trolling for disagreeing with you. Lame asses do that all the time.
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Nolan made the characters service the plot, which they should, but the characters serviced said plot exclusively with no wiggle room. He then allowed the plot to get out of his grasp, and out of control, in many areas, with too many B, C, D and F side stories and additions, from the blackmailer, to the Batman Avengers...with a reformed Scarecrow leading them(?), to the trip to China, and the Harvey Dent/Two-Face revenge plot.Yes, characters must service the plot, but once you have nailed the plot in your script, you must make sure that the plot does not over-shadow your characters. Thusly, you must add a few scenes, sometimes as low as 20 minutes worth, where the plot is made to service the characters, allowing for quiet dialogue--and in depth emotional interactions between the characters...to establish and round-out their relationships; as well, to show us what is at stake between them, what love and companionship holds them together, and why. You have to be allowed to feel and see their yearnings, their familiarity with each other, their lust, their warmth, their shared humor, their romance, their human values which are in common with the audience that is asked to invest emotionally in the onscreen drama which is unfolding before their collective eyes--however, all we saw is tension between Bruce and Rachel...in very few, but cold, scenes. Furhter, along those lines, Alfred and Bruce seemed comfortable with each other, but there was no real friendship, or family dynamic shown between them, no informal exchange of real humor or other deeper emotions, and that hurt the credibility of the scenes, and the impactfulness of the story, and thus, the plot overall.It would have been nice to see a Bruce Wayne, who had interesting nuances about him, ticks--something to set him apart from other people, as everyone has something unique about their personality; the way they walk, turn their head--something, but Wayne was made perfect in his generic behavior and always metro-sexual business suit and perfecly styled hair look. He had no real personal life...and we never saw him in casual dress, having a casual moment, even a damn jog? I mean, does Bruce like rock music, rap, whatever? I am talking about atmospherics, of course, but it would have been nice to see him driving his car down the street, with a song blaring from the speakers--or just have a burger for dinner, or a beer at a bar, something to give him a hint of humanity, and a non-formal, "I'm not too cool for the room" spark! We needed those moments to open-up the picture and make it less, claustrophobic, and more lived in, and more real. I am not talking about cheap sight-gags, just flashes of something more down to earth, as rich people don't wear business suits 24 hours a day...and they do sometimes grab a burger, and mess their hair. In regard to TDK, Nolan was all technique, set-piece focused, big scene oriented; yes, all pomp, whistles, and spectacle, over humanity, and that is TDK's greatest flaw.
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PlotCorporate spy-for-hire Dom Cobb (DiCaprio) steals ideas in dreams, but then he's hired to achieve the impossible: "inception" - planting an idea in the mind of a target. If he succeeds, he can see his estranged children. If he fails, he'll be trapped forever.ReviewIf you know nothing else about Inception, at least know this: it is not a trick. It is ingenious but not crafty, knotty but not duplicitous. It has neither Memento’s method conceit nor the smoke and mirrors of The Prestige. To contrast it with the latter, in particular (fine film though that is), is to appreciate the difference between stage-magic and a real miracle.The director-as-magician analogy feels least tired when applied to Christopher Nolan, given his body of work, its formal and mental layers and precisely engineered reveals. At best, this approach can be exhilarating. At worst — as with the narrative drip-feed of Insomnia, his weakest picture — it is obfuscation masquerading as artistry, aka not half as bloody clever as it thinks it is. Given its setting is largely the subconscious, though, Inception can’t work with a rug-pull denouement. Every scene — let alone the movie — could be punctured with that postscript beloved of primary school story scribblers: “And I woke up and it was only a dream...” So, don’t brace for a “ta-dah!” moment — it will impede your enjoyment and waste your time. Instead, marvel at the effrontery of a filmmaker who asks you to emotionally invest in avowed mental constructs — and succeeds. In one sense, admittedly, this is what every filmmaker asks us to do: engross ourselves in their imagination. The movie, then, could be interpreted as being about craft and inspiration — one character even says, of constructing the architecture of dreams, “It’s just... pure creation.”But there are bigger things in play here than simply Art, and Nolan isn’t given to self-referential indulgence. This is about life and death and what might be beyond and between. It is also about blazing gun battles, zero-gravity fist fights and stars you’d like to sleep with. Fret not, Batfans — Nolan hasn’t turned into Andrei Tarkovsky. The muscular action that distinguished his Bruce Wayne pictures is again in evidence, but whereas Gotham in the Nolanverse is bound by at least some constraints — you know, little things like physics — here all bets are off. It’s not that Inception doesn’t have rules: like any convincing science-fiction, it has rules and boundaries it will not break. But those boundaries are pretty broad — they are the limits of each character’s imagination. The images deserve to be untarnished by much explanation — you should see them for yourself and on the biggest screen you can (it’s coming to IMAX — book now) to best appreciate Wally Pfister’s excellent, expansive photography. Funny, though, how moments that make the memory boggle when you recall them pass naturally in the moment because you are rooted in the world Nolan has created, in the reality(s) of the characters. This is testament to the physical prowess of the production and thorough thought that’s created this world, but also to the actors.Some rise to particularly fascinating challenges (hello, Tom Berenger) and some surprise — principally Cillian Murphy, who can do danger and insolence in his sleep, but here shows a tenderness and vulnerability crucial to the story. Others exert a personality and appeal on parts that on the page would have played very close to ‘types’ — particularly Ellen Page, exuding a prim sexiness as, really, Basil Exposition, and Joseph Gordon-Levitt, who somehow manages to appear both ambiguous and dependable as essentially a sidekick. The pair share one of the movie’s best comic beats, too, though most of the sly laughs come from Tom Hardy’s roguish Eames.It will be fascinating to read the hypotheses that percolate about Inception after release and no doubt what characters are called will be explored. That Page is Ariadne — the name of a figure in Greek myth who guides a hero from a maze — has already been noted. Eames shares his name with seminal designers/architects Charles and Ray, who made a celebrated short film, Powers Of 10, about the magnitude of the universe. Marion Cotillard is Cobb’s wife, Mal — which means “bad”, but can also derive from the Hebrew for messenger or angel. Cobb itself comes from Jacob, who, when fleeing from his murderous brother in the biblical book Genesis, dreamt of a ladder to heaven...Based on his previous behaviour, Nolan isn’t likely to explain what he thinks Inception is actually about, but it’s certainly possible to see it as a blockbuster allegory about grief, faith and the desire for an afterlife — to be reunited with those we love and have lost (those with even a passing knowledge of Catholicism may note an interesting use of the word ‘limbo’). You could argue it’s about suicide and the fears and hopes that can both power and prevent it (for in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?), just as was Soderbergh’s Solaris. Nolan, though, doesn’t muse; he motors. This is no sombre meditation. The themes are there to be explored (there will be more theories about this movie than about the killing of JFK), but you can just as well sit back and enjoy the spectacle. And what a spectacle.In terms of scale and style it is, as Nolan intended, comparable to Bond’s best excursions — yet filtered through a brain-frying, subconscious-spelunking, time-dilating structure that boldly frames action sequences around each other. So we get an explosive Arctic mountain vault-storming within a zero-gravity scramble within a vehicle-crunching chase. In effect, the set-pieces are simultaneous. Which is insane, but brilliant as, while he at times boggles through the necessarily complex editing, Nolan never corrupts his multiverse’s internal logic.When you’re not basking in the visuals, you can always lean into DiCaprio and appreciate the emotion. He anchors everything. An actor who has long borne the blessing and the burden of being hailed a genius before he was even a man, he has never been less than good, but can appear either callow or try-hard, like a child dressing in daddy’s suit. Not here. He shows a depth of feeling rivalled only by his work in Shutter Island. To deliver two such turns in a career would be impressive. In a year, it’s just showing off. What makes it work, really, though, is how unfussy he is, how unselfish — there’s no showboating. Good as he is in The Departed or Gangs Of New York, you could sometimes feel the Weight of his Acting. Here, paradoxically, he appears effortless, even though he’s the beam on which the whole mighty edifice rests. It’s because you believe his journey, his heart, that you buy into Inception. If he failed, so would the movie. This isn’t the sort of performance that usually wins Oscars — it’s not ostentatious or superficially transformative, but by God it is brilliant. The strength of it is that you remain emotionally engaged, even if you’re not entirely sure what’s going on. The third act makes Memento seem about as complex as Bear In The Big Blue House. And while there is remarkable clarity given the complexity, you are pummelled with information and have to keep up — pay attention, figure it out.Only repeat viewing will reveal if this comparison is truly justified, but it feels like Stanley Kubrick adapting the work of the great sci-fi author William Gibson (Neuromancer) — except Nolan appears to like people more than the 2001 auteur. So, you have a film that embraces intellect and emotion but also sheer entertainment — that can include a character staring at what looks like one of Francis Bacon’s tortured self-portraits, but also has the best EXPLODEY BUILDING sequence since Zabriskie Point. That film was a notorious bomb, ignored by audiences and pilloried by critics. And some, who may find Inception exposition-heavy and bewildering, will no doubt argue that, drunk on the freedom of The Dark Knight, Nolan has spent $170 million disappearing up his own arse. He hasn’t. On this form, wherever he goes next, be it Batman 3 or something else, we’ll be the first in line to follow.Verdict
Like The Matrix mated with Synecdoche, New York — or a Charlie Kaufman 007. To paraphrase Casino Royale’s Vesper Lynd, it’s a meaningful pursuit in a summer of disposable entertainments. With physics-defying, thunderous action, heart-wringing emotion and an astonishing performance from DiCaprio, Nolan delivers another true original: welcome to an undiscovered country.5 stars. -
I love your line though: "I'm Portuguese, I don't give a fuck about the 4th of July!!!"-AsimovLivesNow, if TDK only had great lines of dialogue like that, it would have been a better film! That was a truly brilliant line!!!!
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You must really feel very lonely.
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Most very creative people do feel that way, and many people in general do--the reason why so many are on drugs, drinking too much, and sleeping around. That's not me, I simply debate movies, but you can make me out to be Hitler if you wish, for simply having a different view of a filmmaker and his films...than you do--thank is perfectly okay we me. However, I will not respond in turn, as I only wish you the best, and the greatest love. Happy belated 4th, my friend!!!!
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Thanks for the compliment. But to rest assured the beating hearts of my american cousins, i was just shutting up some idiot. It looked like it worked, though.
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November 11th (our 3rd and last independence act from Spain) and April 24th (liberation from a right-winger dictatorship also known as The Carnation Revolution).
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Most very creative people do feel that way, and many people in general do--the reason why so many are on drugs, drink too much, and sleeping around. That's not me though, in terms of dealing with such matters, I simply debate movies, but you can make me out to be Hitler if you wish, for simply having a different view of a filmmaker, and his films, than you do--that is perfectly okay we me. However, I will not respond in turn, as I only wish you the best in life, and the greatest love.
Happy belated 4th, my friend!!!! -
Jul 07, 2010 10:31:08 AM CDT
""I'm Portuguese, I don't give a fuck about the 4th of July"
by xiphos_2
Should readI'm Portuguese and I only give a fuck about eating shit out of goats asses it's Portugal's national pastime"There you go goatfucker I fixed that sentence to accurately reflect what you meant to say.The other possible interpretation is:"I'm Portuguese I only give a fuck about getting mounted by JJ Abrams becasue I want a bloody good rogering from my lord and master."
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He lacks potentual to be a major star and his roles are lackluster at best. I could see Leo getting acclaim and big parts (He was great in GONY,The Departed and Aviator.) but Levitt Gordon?!? The dweeb from Stop Loss,Killshot and worse...Cobra Commander?!? GTFO!Rant Over, anyway Inception looks like something I would love to see in IMAX and not some bullshit 3D gimmick, it looks mesmerising as it is.
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Jul 07, 2010 10:34:14 AM CDT
Shitphos_2, reduce yourself to your own insignificance...
by asimovlives
... you xenophobic pudrid fuck.
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I find Joseph Gordon Hewitt to be a very promising new talent and on the verge of true stardom.
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Jul 07, 2010 10:42:50 AM CDT
Well Asi, It's cool that you are willing to give JGL a shot.
by stalkeye
..but from what I have seen in his previous performances, I'm not impressed. (And there's no effin way am I gonna see 500 Days of Summer to see if my opinion would change.)Should Inception become his breakthrough role, then I stand corrected.In the meantime there's really nothing there.
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I am not necessarily a fan of the U.S., and I am certainly not a fan of the U.S. government, although I am American. Our government leaves a lot to be desired. America, for all its potential, is wasting its beautiful gifts, in favor of placing money, greed, and xenophobic fueled hate, ahead of building a truly giving society. When we can (and do) pay executives, ball players, rock stars, and movie stars, hundreds of millions of dollars (billions...and even trillions collectively), but we under-pay and lay-off nurses, and teachers, close schools, and lay-off police officers and fire officers, and their staffs, well, something is seriously wrong with a society that does that--it is sociopathic, if not, psychopathic...in nature. So, my sarcasm about the 4th was not a knock at you, but a slap at those in this country who believe that there is nothing wrong, when everything, or most, is obviously wrong with the way things are. Given that, if things remain the same, this country won't be celebrating many more birthdays, if there isn't a positive change.
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Believe me, that's not just an USA problem. Have you ever felt that your country is being sold piecemeal?
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I really liked JGL in 3RD ROCK FORM THE SUN, and i hav eliked his work as na adult actor, specially in BRICK. As for 500 DAYS OF SUMMER, the fact that Bringbacksexy loves it so much is giving me pause to watch it, if you know what i mean.
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Great little Noir caper flick, that.
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LMMFAO at your last sentence.Yeah I concur with your reluctancy to watch 500 Days due to BSB's unyielding plug for this Movie (So much noise about nuttin.)and even our "Boy" Bob Orci had mentioned how much he loved the film.Ergo, that's an automatic pass for me.
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I saw it a few years back and had already forgotten who the actor that played the protagonist was.(Obviously JGL was more of an unknown back then.)To his credit, he did OK in Lookout, but the succeding parts did nothing extrodinary.He may have potentual, but as of the aforemention roles save for Lookout, it's wasted.Maybe Inception could put him on the mark, cause it sure as shit wasn't GIJoe.Oh, and Asi my Wife placed Brick in my Netflix instant queue for sometime now.Just that we never got around to watching it.I'll get around to it soon as I have heard positive reviews about the movie.
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You don't know what you're missing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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At least not the Golden Age version, which is the one that I think the Nolan's were basing him on.
In the Golden Age he was simply a villain who decided to do evil (like rob a bank and keep the money) or good (like donate the money to an orphanage) by the flip of a coin, and based his crimes on the number two.
The money just simplified that to Two-Face making the decision to do good (let you live) or evil (kill you) on an arbitrary flip of the coin.
If I found any fault in the Two-Face character, it was that two of the Joker's biggest plots (Harvey and Rachel at two spots and you can only save one; and the TWO ferries) seemed more like Two-Face plots than Joker plots. -
I can't believe Nolan killed him off already. In Nolan We Can't Trust.
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Also, he and Zooey were otherworldly in Manic. They were barely recognizable from their more familiar personae.
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Could not agree with you more my frined. I live in NY and for almost 2 years I was unemployed. Where the fuck was my bailout? Where was the government to say "Hey your a citizen in DIRE need, heres a few thousand bucks to get you by while we clean up this economical MESS" nowhere, thats where they were, they were busy bailing out companies so they could pay their executives multi million dollar fucking bonuses....bonuses, for guys running a company that was FAILING because of them. So guys who put companies into fincaial crisis are rewarded, and yet here I am even now being employed, struggling to maintain what I have.The US does not take care of it's citizens, the government is too busy lining their pockets and making sure all their rich pals pay minimal taxes so they can put more money in their pocket as well. The welfare of the common US citizen is the last thing on the mind of our government, and that is not how it is supposed to be. I watch these assholes in Washington vote down unemployment extensions right before they go on yet another exteded break, to their limos, mansions and yachts, and they have the fucking balls to string people along who have nothing.... oh but if an oil company or insurance company need to take care of their executives, they are right there to hand out money, or if theres a war to be had, hey here's all the money you need for something basically pointless that will get a lot of our soldiers killed for nothing. I love my country, but fuck, it's awfully hard to when you feel like, as a citizen, you are at the very bottom of the priority list.
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Are you a well-known Comic-Con brawler?
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The money? I meant The Nolans.
Damn "In Nolan We Trust" crowd has got my brain all screwed up. -
I thought it was too short of arc. On one side I can't blame Nolan because Harvey was originally supposed to be in BB but he got cut from the script because they felt he couldn't be done justice (I blame Goyer's over-bloated story line) but on the other side I think they could have had the Two-Face story ending with the hospital explosion and than cut to Two-Face somewhere standing on a ledge and he flips a coin to decide what he is going to do and we pick up his vigilante/crime spree in the next movie.
It felt forced and truncated in TDK as it is now. -
Most definitely. Two-Face should've had his own movie and Nolan could explore his inner conflict. Whereas Joker was a mysterious embodiment of evil, Two-Face was someone Batman could've tackled in a different way. Damn.
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It's a scorcher.
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although there is a flick called Mysterious Skin by Gregg Araki, where Leavitt is apparantly amazing.And its no surprise, to me, that he's working with Nolan, as he looks like the younger brother of Ledger. Look at pictures side by side...Oh yea...and BSB, I really enjoyed 500 Days also (the Han Solo cameo sealed the deal).
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I posted it on a talkback with Harry like 1 week ago. You were on that talkback too. sdcc doesn't have brawls, but it will soon
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Jul 07, 2010 1:09:59 PM CDT
The only thing humanitarian that has ever existed is science.
by ultratron
America? No. Religeon? The bible condones and preaches slavery and even gives details of how you should go about it. So no. Avatar? Avatar is the #1 movie of all time because it's better than any other movie ever made. Except the weird horse raping with sea anemones. I just can't abide that.
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surprisingly you weren't there that day, must have been with your parole officer. But here's the thread: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/45585
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I liked what they did with him in the movie, but, dare I say, it kinda felt like what they did with Venom in SM3, except they at least didnt shit all over two face like they did with Venom, they handled Two Face well. Two face could have easily had his own movie as a bad guy, I understand what and why they did with him in TDK, he was a pawn for the Joker, showing how the best can fall, but I still would have liked to have seen him get much more time as a bad guy.Still, as it is, they did a good job with him in TDK, and at least it didnt feel forced like Venom did.
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Just so you know, I was kidding...about being 5'7", 140lbs. I'm 6'3", 220lbs. And I life and workout every day (gym right next to my house).
Can't wait to see you at Comic-Con. I'll e-mail you a photo of myself shortly so you can recognize me. -
Jul 07, 2010 1:18:47 PM CDT
Sorry UltraTron, but I don't carry around a lot of body fat
by continentalop
I'm not a lard ass.
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One day, Stalkeye and Asi will watch it and rue that they waited so long. It was great, wasn't it? The Han Solo cameo was just perfect. Just goes to show how Webb really has that touch.
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Yeah, I missed that talkback. It's not like I'm here 24/7 you know. And in any case, and don't take offense, I often put you on ignore. :-P
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"Avatar is the #1 movie of all time because it's better than any other movie ever made"....wrong, wrong, so fucking wrong it is not even funny.It's the #1 movie of all time because of several factors...3D prices for movies are more expensive, therefore more money is made....Yes, millions upon millions of people saw it, that does not mean its the greatest movie ever made. It was an immersive experience to be sure, but it had a generic story and nothing outstanding as far as characters go. No one was particularlly bad, but no character came across as unforgettable, the movie was driven by its visuals, not by its story or characters.Biggest money maker of all time, yup, no doubts there, even if it is because of inflated admission prices....but better than every move ever made? Not by a long shot, and besides, unless you have seen EVERY MOVIE EVER MADE, you cannot even make that statement and expect to be taken seriously.Better than The Godfather? NopeBetter than Star Wars? NopeBetter than The Dark Knight? NopeBetter than The Empire Strikes Back? NopeBetter than Jaws? NopeBetter than 2001? NopeI could go on, but anyone with any knowledge of cinema knows that Avatar is far and away NOT the greatest movie ever made....that's not a requirement to be the movie that makes the most money.
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you're full of more shit than Michael Jackson's lawyers. Are you gonna wear your jiu jitsu gi? You might be a towel boy at the gym. Even if you are that big, I'm sure you're a soft uncoordinated gump. Don't forget to eat your spinach.
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Jul 07, 2010 1:27:03 PM CDT
CONTIPOPS - AT 5'7" AND 140 LBS, I WAS WORRIED FOR YOU
by bringingsexyback
At 6'3" and 220 Lbs ... I'm worried for MJ.
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But uh, best movie ever made? Let's not go that far.
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Yeah, you guys are probably right, I guess the whole Two Face thing is pretty arguable.
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I'm not even going to respond to you any more. Just save it up. But I knew you would fucking back out unless you thought I was tiny.
Talk all the shit you can for now. Feel free. Because I don't need to. Simple as that.
See you at Comic-Con... -
Jul 07, 2010 1:33:53 PM CDT
ARE YOU GUYS GONNA ASK FOR HARRY'S AUTOGRAPH AT COMICON
by bringingsexyback
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I wouldn't call it a split personality, but always in the comic books, Golden Age or modern age, Harvey was conflicted and felt guilt for doing things as Two-Face. Did he ever have those moments in TDK?
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I'm very sorry about your unemployment situation. I was once unemployed for 6 months, and it's an humiliating experience. It feels like you have no worth, that you are some sort of reject, and that it happens not because of any fault of you but because of external agencies (bad economy, bad government manegement).There is one reason why american laws, specially financial law, protect the rich so much, and that's because the people help vote favourable for them, even the poor. Specially the poor. The poor vote for the laws that helps the rich at the expense of the poor. And the reason why is because of the belief in the american Dream. Too many people believe there's silver linings in the coulds, that things will turn out OK, they beleive that those one-in-a-million rags-to-riches stories will happen to them too. Thus, they play for safe, they will not help vote on laws that would make them pay taxes when they get rich. They are playing for future, for a future they in all certainty will never have, but they still play on the dream as if it's fact.And this is why the poor still help the rich get richer at their expenses. All because of a fucking dream. I mean, as if the rich would like to see a new kid in their block. For one to get really rich, multi-million-like, it means other rich people will have to lose some of their millions. Money is a finite comodity, for one to gain, another has to lose. And if there is one thing the rich hater above all elseis to lose money. The rich hate to lose money mroe then the poor do, in fact. It's harder to make a rich pay 5 bucks against their wishes then the poor, believe you that. Tell me of how many rich you see being generous without an photo-op to go by it.I'm no communist, i would love to be filthy rich, but fuck, the rich are some serious fucked up people!
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felt a tad bit rushed and yes it was Deja Vu all over again;*cough*venom*cough*.However Dent's demise was a good setup for the perfect ending as Harvey's legacy will go on untarnished in society not to mention that Bats is taking the rap for the murders that have been commited by Dent.Great open ended cliffhanger in which Batman is being persued by the Police ; "Why does he run"? Gordon: "Because he has to".
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I want specific examples from other filmed works
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He did, and Gordon tried to play on that when he begs to save his boy's life. And he almost suceeded. But unfortunatly, Harvey just snapped back to his demented self and went with the "let's toss a coin" instead. It's in the movie. I should know, i saw it 5 times already, and planning on seeing it more. Doesn't beat my viewing of BATMAN BEGINS because the later was released 3 years before (more time to watch it).
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Mr Beaks posted his reviews, so did CHUD's Devin Faraci, and i posted above the complete review form EMPIRE magazine. What are your thoughs about the movie so far?
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Want to make up my own mind. Didn't even read the review here.
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MJs are you gonna wear your ladies uniform from the Signal Corps?
Hhahahahaha
You've been exposed runt boy. You've lost all credibility. Standing there naked with a tiny acorn for a dick.
Probably about time you do your usual trick of coming back with a new 'hilariously witty' talkback name.
You're not even a good troll. Every time i've seen you mouth off you've been slapped down and exposed as the witless cunt you are.
I wish it was goodbye but guess i'll just have to say au revoir runt boy. -
Jul 07, 2010 1:43:31 PM CDT
NOLAN WOULD'VE BEEN PERFECT TO EXPLORE TWO-FACE SOME MORE
by bringingsexyback
I think his character bares some resemblance to Guy Pearce in Memento, someone who was seriously conflicted, driven by grief and loss, willfully committing wrong through the force of a deranged personality. Shit. That woulda been an epic 3rd movie.
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Dances With Wolves, Little Big Man, hell, even Mean Girls...any movie where the hero switches sides and takes the side of the so-called "enemy".The line, "You have to decide what side your playing for...", or whatever the line is, has it's duplicate in countless movies.And, yes I enjoyed Avatar for what is was..it was almost like sci-fi comfort food.
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we're still debating the merits and/or flaws of Avatar? TTMOtime to move on...
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Remember when people called AVATAR as Dances With Wolves in space? there is a grat element of familiarity to Avatar's story which even predates DANCES WITH WOLVES. If yiou know any of those old Rudyard Kipling stories, you would understand where the tropes which Avatar uses with great abandon. They are already here for about more then 100 years )at least) and are common tropes in adventure stories set in exotic locations. The Na'vi themselves are an even older trope, based on Jean Jacques Rousseau's concept of the "Bon Sauvage", the noble and dignified savage who, living outside of civilization, is not corrupted by it and this is inherently noble and kind hearted. Recognize this much in the Na'vis?If you know a bit about the background and th stories told of old, and evnesome other things about the imaginarium of western-exotic locations and people contact, you will see that Avatar uses many if not all of thoseelements. It's not just a specific borrowing from a specific older movie, but the whole tropes about the whole type of story that has been told since the times of the discoveries since the 16th century foward.
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So back up while I whip this thang out!
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I dont really know any rich people, but have met my share, and worked for some, and damn if they are not some of the biggest assholes in the world. Think they are better than everyone because they have money.You are absolutely right about their tendency to be misers with their money, I dont subscribe to the saying "Well thats how rich people stay rich" BULLSHIT, they are so protective of their money, so afraid to give it up, that they would rather been seen as assholes then to spend their precious money. Poor people are definitely more willing to part with 5 bucks than the wealthy. Sometimes I dont think the rich realze how well they have it. Not saying all rich people are like that, but I have met enough to know that having money can turn you into a serious asshole. I just wish my country cared as much about me as it does it's more well off citizens, who don't have as many worries and finacial woes as I do.
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Long time. How is it going you single celled sex machine?
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sorry to hear about your situation as well.And yes, it is a goddamn shame that companies that have contributed to the recession like AIG, can get bailouts and a handjob to go with it, while the working class gets shitted on moreso than ever.The way things are going, we might be headed for another recession, then what? Desperation? Anarchy?!?And guys, I am obviously no fan of most of these overpaid atheletes and so-called celebrities who dont give two shits about those that are less fortunate.I do take solice in the fact that Lindsey (Lohan) is sentenced to 90 days in prison. Spoiled lil' red headed cunt needs to learn a lesson.
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Avatar = SF confort food.That's brillant. And perfectly sums up the movie.Well, i did enjoyed Avatar, no deying it was at times quite a mesmerizing experience. But it is confort food. however, i ask a bit more from my confort food. i want them more spicy, if you get my meaning. Maybe i'm too demansing, but for me, confort food is the likes of Blade Runner or 2001 or Apocalypse Now. As you cna see, with such type of confort food, i guess anything else feels a bit... lacking?
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I already rue the day I saw both Transformers 2 and GIJoe. (and Juno!!)So how much can I be curious to take chances on another film that wont live up to my expectations?
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Well said about Avatar, it doesnt specifically steal anything from one particular film, it takes elements we have seen before in many movies, melds them into one. You cited Dances With Wolves, also The Last Samurai had the same type of story.I also enjoyed Avatar, but it is far from cinematic royalty, maybe from a techinical standpoint it is, but not over all, I dont think it even ranks in the top ten best movies ever made and if it does it just barely makes it....but I dont think it does.But hey if in your own view Avatar is the tops, fine, your entitled to your opinion, as are we all, but you would be in the minority, which again, is fine, but you will find your opinion being constantly challenged.
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THe prision stint didn't helped Paris Hilton get some more brains to her head, did it? you think Lidsay Lohan's case will be any different? If anything els,e that prision time will make them feel even more vindicated, and then they will sing their woes to the TV and the press and on Ophra and get even more money and celebrity out of that. It's fucked up, man! Again, i'm no communist and i'd love to be really rich, but there are times, there are times i really wish a major October Revolution would happen and throw those rich assholes who flaut themselves to the ocean to be sharkbite.rogueleader66, as for why the rich have such a sense of self-entitlement, again that'sbecause of a side effect of religion, in america's cas,e protestanism. The protestants wanted to protect christianism form some of the abuses comited by the catholcis that they created the notion of "divine reward". They claimed, if you are a hard worker, and you earend money and riches from your brow, it's not sinful, becaus that's god's reward, and you don't need to spent it on charity because you already glorified god with your work. Thing his, this gave people who get rich a sense of self-entitlemen. So, if you have a business or do some work and form it you get filthy rich, it means god is onyoru side. Evne if you earned your riches by exploiting others, and by cheating and breaking the law, if you get rich, god is rewarding you, god is in your side. And if god is in your side, who can be on the others? Thus, money became equated with god's own favour bestowed upon you. Money is a representation of god on Earth. And god bewtowed his dibvine grace to you. Money IS GOD! Thus, they think they are god's predilect people. This is why so many rich think themselves so great and above anything and anybody else, they have god as their own personal bedfellow. Why do you think so many rich people are christian fundamentalists, like George W. Bush? Money equals god, man! Believe on this, man! Why do you think the communists were atheists?
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i just bought some comic con tix real cheap from a guy named MJ on craiglist!!!
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Well, if somebody will claim Avatar to be a much better cinematic experience then, say, Trashformers, i'm certainly not going to disagree with him, that's for sure. for all it's flaws, Avatar makes Trashformers look like the product of total incompetence.
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Beaks has a track record of spoiling a considerable amount of the movie a week in advance for no reason at all.
Spoilers do not equal a review. -
Funny you mention Apocolypse Now. For years so many people told me what a great movie it was, greatest movie made about Vientam bar none. Took me many years to see it and when I finally did, damn was I......very underwhelmed.Did I like the movie? Yes...good performances all around, well shot, great cinematography, awesome score...but I was just left feeling a bit disappointed. Maybe the years of it being hyped up to me by others did it, maybe my expectations were too high. Either way, I find it to be a good film, but I just don't see it as the classic that others do. Oh and as far as best film about vietnam? For me, that's Platoon, hands down. I read the story that AN was based on, Heart Of Darkness, in college, and I enjoyed it more than the movie, and this was AFTER I saw the film. Not saying AN is a bad film, it is a very good film, but for me, it just didn't do it. Maybe one of these days I will watch it again, maybe being older now will change my view of it.
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The only thing i saw of GI JOE was that scene of the chase in Paris, and just from that alone i felt the death of my braincells dying and crying out in extreme agony. The thist was so fucking stupid, so fucking stupid, it was as if soembody had used that scene from TEAM AMERICA: WORLD POLICE and didn't noticed it was supposed to be a joke, to make us laugh, and shot it straigh. Fuck, was that shit stupid!! From the director of VAN HELSING indeed! Makes me feel ashamed i enjoyed THE MUMMY!
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Oh don't get me wrong, I am not disputing the fact that AVatar is a well made enjoyable film, and better than most of the crap that has come out in the last ten years, I just don't see it as cinematic royalty as many others do, I can easily name 10 probably even 20 movies I like better, but that's not a slam, I like a LOT of movies lol.You know if i ever became rich (ha ha, never happen) I know I would change somewhat, but not to the point that I would become an arrogant asshole, I would consider myself lucky and try to share my newfound wealth with the people around me, family and friends, at least I like to think that is how I would be. Aprreciative of it, not arrogant like I deserved it.
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hahah. Stay classy, talkbackers.
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I still get the satisfaction of her ass being thrown in Jailed,even if it's away from Gen Pop. (there goes the lesbo lickdown fantasy .)This bitch being inconveniced is good enuff for me. Sure prison didnt do a damn thing for Paris,(or OJ Simpson till now.)but it serves as a message that the rich fucks (be they celebrities, Politicians or Shady Businessmen.) cant always get over on society. After all,Enron's Ken Lay died in Prison if i remember correctly and the same goes for bernie Madoff.Maybe there is a Silver Lining after all.
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You had to be there, man!!! The 70s, man!!!Actually, is aw the movie in the mid-late 80s, in VHS. Butthe movie blew me away! Back then, there wasn't the hype that is today. I knew the mvoie by reputation, but besodes some still photos and a very short teaser traielr form TV whenever the movie was mentioned, i knew next to nothing about the movie. Didn't even knew the plot at all, except that somewhere in the movie a battle with helicopters happened. I didn't even had heard of HEART OF DARKNESS, a book i only read 10 years after i first saw the movie.As i told above, the movie was very mysterious to me. And as i watched it, the sense of mystery mantained. Which was a good thing. The movie blew my mind. It was like nothing else i had seen before. I ddin't knew movies could look like that. and more importnatly, that could be presented like that. The mood of the movie, done with those strange images, the strange editing with the strange music and mesmerizing sound effects. It was all, literally, awesome! Total movie experience. Caugh me completly of guard. Adn this is why, to this day, i have nothing but total complete awe for APOCALYPSE NOW. That movie, for me, one of those PERFECT MOVIES. And none of the complaisn and criticism i have read and known about it makes any sense to me. It is a TOTAL FILM. It is the type of film that justifies cinema.And i far prefer the theatrical version. Back in the 70s, the directro's cut was released in the theaters. To my knowledge, there hasn't been a director's cut of a 70s movie which has improved on the original version. Not one.
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Would you rather have us discuss the cultual impact that Blade Runner has left?Hey, there's always another TF thread to bash? X0:'
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... one interviewer, back in the 60s, asked Ringo Starr if fame and welth had changed him. his reply was a short and frank "Yes". It was hysterical, and at he same time, so true. One thing i deplore is when i see some fuck tho got rich and they claim they are still thesame person they were before getting rich. Fucking bullshit! Fucking bullshit! Of course you will change! You will change if you fal into deep poverty. you will change if you became filthy rich. We are people, therefore, adaptable and moldable, and not fucking trees!
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And what exactly would be wrong about talking about BLADE RUNNER? This is an INCEPTION talkback, and Christopher Nolan claims BR to be his all time favorite movie which has influence every movie he has made. I think a talk about BR would be apropos, given the subject matter and the filmmaker who made the movie this talkback is about.
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Amen brother!!!! Dina Lohan was a customer where my lady used to work, and damn she always had this arrogant air about her. My lady said she was never really mean, but you could tell she had this attitude like she was somebody. Well what is she now? The mother of a washed up, could have been a big star, tabloid fodder child of Hollywood. Lidsay is young enough to be able to actually put her life, and MAYBE her career back together, but her mother is nothing but a useless enabler, all she does is blame everyone else for her kids problems instead of looking in the mirror and seeing exactly where the problem is. Stop being your daughters friend, and be something she obviously needs...a mother. God people like that just make me sick.I love the fact that my daughter considers me her best friend, and that I can pal around with my 2 sons like buddies do, but first and foremost I am a parent, a friend second, the way it should be. Later on in life, you can be a friend to your kids more than when they were younger. Before my Father died we were like best friends for a long time. He was always a parent. always worried about me, and I know I will be the same with my kids, but damn be a parent when it matters, your kids won't love you any less if your a parent first and a friend second. I know this for a fact.
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I know this thread has progressed since my statement on Bale's voice in TDK, but allow me to retort to YOUR knee-jerk reaction to post.
Of course, I understand that he has to disguise his voice, being that he Gotham's most famous son. I actually thought Bale's Batman voice in Begins was pretty good. But you can't tell me that his voice wasn't different in TDK. It was horribly overdone, as was Eckhart's "Rachel!". Seriously, just listen to that last scene with Gordon, Two-Face and Batman without watching the movie; it's hammy.
You seem to just want to harp on the opinion of a person who finds a flaw in a movie you hold in high regard. As I said before, I really liked TDK (saw it 4 times in the theaters). But it isn't without its flaws, and to me Bale's (and to an extent Eckhart's) overacting were the only things that took me out of an otherwise excellent film. -
Good casting suggestion.Hoskins would also make for a good Penguin.Burton's/Devito's Penguin was good for that era circa 1993, but i like the idea of a underground arms dealer as oppossed to some freak of nature who holds a grudge against society due to the fact that his parents rejected him.
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Like I said, I dont think AN is a bad movie, far from it, I just was not as blown away by it as so many others were. I recognize it for what it is, but it just doesn't do it for me they way many other movies have. Like I said I need to see it again, maybe I will see it in a different light. I was a teen in the 80's (im 43 now, 44 in september) was my age a factor? I would like to think it wasn't, a good movie is a good movie no matter how old you are, but sometimes age and wisdom can change your view of things. We will see, one of these days I will watch it again.
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I don't know what Blade Runner left on the culture. Other than we got more dark movies and TV shows. I think Alien left better marks on the culture than Blade Runner.
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Trust me, Locke gets the smartass reference (my mentioning Blade Runner.) If you are brave enough to search the threads over a year ago, you may find me and Lockes going at it due to the fact that he dismisses BR as boring. He nearly got his ass handed to him by a few TBers for making such an silly comment.Classic gold man, you had to be there.
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Still don't agree about your complains about Batman's voice in TDK. As for hammyness in Eckhart's calling out for Rachael, i recall no such thing in the movie. Desperating, yeah, fits the character in the situation, but hammy? No, sir. Still, i'm glad you loved the movie almost as much as i did. And 4 times at the theaters? Damn, that's impressive, i tip my hat to you, good sir.
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I remember George Harrison said that in A Hard Days Night..(love that movie), the line about success. He said it with a deadpan straight face, it was just classic. Maybe Ringo said it in an actual interview but I remember it from the movie, same deal though he was being interviewed and it was funny as hell but you also knew he was being totally truthful. How could becoming mega rich not change you? For someone to say they are no different after they became rich from before they did is truly a liar.
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Age can certainly be a factor, and i know that for a fact. For example, when i first saw Fellini's 8 1/2 i was a teen and i though the movie fucking sucked. 10 years ago i rewatched the movie and was blown away! I couldn't fucking believe that i had disliekd it so much before. But then i remembered, i was a fucking teen back then, and teens are stupid. Even the smart teens are stupid. Adulthood was the best thing that happened to me by far.
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Can you say Cyberpunk? BR influenced not just various movies and TV series, but also Anime...oh, I forgot you disregard Anime as a serious medium. Alien is relevant no doubt, but high concept films like Blade Runner, Robocop, Terminator and Escape from New York have more than earned their place as great contributions to cinema and beyond.search your feelings, you know it to be true.
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I should had been there indeed. People who say BLADE RUNNER is boring, it says more about themselves then the movie proper, i say.
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i quote conti..let her go to prison, shes one step closer to hitting rock bottom. then she will be mine.
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Saw it in the theaters..loved it...'nuff said
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Yeah, well I never was a fan of Burton's version. Actually, I have not been a fan of any post-Crisis version in the comics either. I personally think he is this incredibly interesting, great character that all these modern writers and fans just don't understand or comprehend what Kane and Finger were going for so they write him off.
And no offense, I wouldn't even want your arms dealer angle. That isn't meant as a slam - it might even be cool in the movies and in comics, and a lot of people might love that version of the character - but I have this fucking insane thing about the Penguin ever since I went back and read his Golden Age stories and had this epiphany of what he really is about. I would love Nolan or some comic writer to try and tap into what the character's creators original intent was for the Penguin because I think a lot of people would be surprised how relevant and interesting he could be.
I mean, here was a character whose stories were usually BETTER than the Joker stories of that period. That is saying a lot IMO. -
SHE'S MINE! I just bought a bag of Peruvian flake for when she gets out.
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name another movie where a guy makes love to an alien and then becomes an alien to be with her forever. That's the story I saw. At the beginning when I saw arrows stuck in the tires of a huge moonbuggy I thought to myself- holy shit we're invading another planet and there's already someone living there! This is gonna be great! And ya know what? It lived up to that in every way. Now give me Cameron's Robotech with a bridge filled with the hottest, badass women the earth has to fight the giant invasion.
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... when William Gibson was writing NEUROMANCER, he watched the movie,a nd said he had to left the movie early on, not because he was hating, but becasue he was loving it so much and was mixing up his own vision of the story he was writing, it was just too damn uncanny how the movie was matching his own vision.When Risley Scot showed a preview early cut of BR to Philuip K Dick, he was so suprised with what he saw, he asked Scott how did he copied exactly the images he had in mind when he wrote the novel.Blade Runner's influence in images for movies and TV cannot be counted. It's ubiquous.
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A Man Called Horse.
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The aliens in AVATAR are just natives in disguise. Why do you thinkthat they used black, mulatos and indian actirs to play the na'vi? accidental? Bullshit! It was delçiberat,e to tap into that very same thing, the notion of the na'vi as the Rousseau's Bon Sauvage. The na'vi are the indians or polinesians or whatever natives from classic kipling stories of old. AVATAR is a Kipling yard disguised as SF.Beside,s the Na'Vi are barely alien at all. They are just big tall cats painted lbue but who act,through and through, totally like humans. Talk like humans, act like huimans, are petty like humans, think like humans, are even anoying like humans, and their culture is a poupourri of various native primitive cultures. Fuck, the blad girl in STAR TREK THE MOTION PCITURE did had more alieness to her then any Na'vi in Cameron's culture, at least they tried to gave her own particular culture seperated from known human culture.
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ill take the mouth. the other end looks like an arbys big montana after that prison stint.
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Howdy do mi amigo?
It has indeed been quite a while.
I have been well, just laying up with some fine assed popcorn kernels! They are wearing me out though. I might have to slow down with a dust ball with a nice badonk until I catch my second wind.I had some drama with a paramecium who thinks he is Gods gift to females just because he has more cilia than anyone, but I layeth the smacketh down on his pseudo-ass! If'n you need some back up for the big smackdown at the Comic Con, you know who to call buddy! -
If you cannot see beyond the "guy becoming an alien to be with the alien chick" thing you have very little knowledge of movies. Educate yourself, watch some classics, stop sucking Cameron's cock, it's shameful
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Everything in the begining. until we then to need to anoying Na'vi. After that, it goes downhill, 3D included. And of the anoying na'vi, none is worst then the fucking Pocahontas. I know many of you foundher endearing and fell inlove with her, but me, i foudn her anoying beyond endurance, and a bitch who goes for the guy with the coolest ride. Really, i fucking found her anoying beyond belief. But the start of AVATAR until the Na'vis is some of the best SF put on film i have seen for a long time.
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What classic should I watch when I want to indulge in my alien sex fantasies without running the risk of sucking off Cameron?
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The government believes in the "Trickle-Down" theory, their way of robbing from the poor and the middle-class to feed the rich, who are already over-fed and can't consume what they have in 10 or more lifetimes, however, it is the "Trickle-Up" theory that works, and very fast, when employed. One must give a stimulus to the poor, the lower-middle class, and the middle class--people like teachers and emergency service personal, and their support staffs. Not to mention, they are the heart of our country in terms of keeping a workable society intact. They are are brain-trust for our children and up-coming genrations and future leadership in government, industry, religion, and charity, and our moral center. Without these people, who have less quality of life for us all and our families--and millions of teachers, nurses, police and fire officers, and their support staffs, have been laid-off over the last 3 plus years, or have had large cuts in pay. If you keep them employed, and maintain their salaries, and look for additional new hires, then they, as in the past, will spend their money on goods and services, those supplied by small businesses, mid-range businesses, and big business, and thus, everyone makes a profit--and will spread the money from one part of the country, to another, and all over the world. When the government goes with the Trickle-Down theory, and places it into execution, the money is slow to be spread...as the rich keep the money in the bank, and or, borrow against it. What money they do spend, no matter how lavish, only goes to support a handful of people in relation to the greater populace--and often that money is spent in foreign countries--again, getting in very few hands...even then, so it is lose/lose for Americans--as well as most foreign countries, the reason for the global economic crash. And let's not forget, companies and executives like to pad their stocks and their compy books by laying-off people en masse. They pocket the profits, you lose your job, wind-up in divorce court because of it, and have no way to support yourself, your family, or pay medical for yourself and family; that which is left of the family, anyway.If you give the American public stimulus money directly, as opposed to huge corporations, plus significant tax-breaks, and place a hold on home foreclosures by banks and related institutions...for upwards of 2 years, while allowing people to rent to own property that they are already in (that which is in foreclosure), it would serve to stablize, and even fastly rebuild the economy--and stimulate job hiring, maintain salaries, and even raise them, per-capita. Let's look at the latter situation; The more people get money, the more people who will spend that money, and if it is at retail, as well ass hotels and restaurants, well, when that happens, the more people those very businesses will need to retain and employ to satisfy demand. This also impacts the transportation industry, etc. The government should also consider, suspending taxes for individual tax-payers and families, for up to a year, or longer, and get rid of income taxes...altogether. An across the board sales tax for anything sold, that being all goods and services, should be instituted in its place, and the IRS' sole mission, and purpose, should be to make sure that said taxes are collected from businesses. If they institute such a system, they will be able to force everyone to pay their fair share of taxes; as there are many taxable monies that go unreported by sex workers, drug dealers, and other criminals, gamblers, cab drivers, illegal immigrants, and various service workers--to bars, and specialty businesses; and the rest of us are always forced to pay, not only our fair share of taxes, but we are also forced to pay for many others whose taxes go unreported and unpaid--this would include crooked executives, the wealthy...in general (who use tax-shelters) and companies that escape paying taxes. If the government truly cared about us, which they don't, this is what they would do to save the National...and World, economy!!! Really it is a matter of National and World security. You will recall the fall of Rome? Well, this is how it began.
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Jul 07, 2010 3:26:57 PM CDT
I watched He Man last week, bald cop got some Eternian tang
by dirk_the_amoeba
And he never went back to earth. Does that count as strange tang that can make a man renounce his race and home planet? I think it does.
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And a bunch of other sci-fi movies when an Alien comes down to Earth and disguised as an alien falls in love with a human woman? He has tries to assimilate and pretend he is human, but right away he knows nothing of human culture and has to learn.
Cameron basically just flipped it and added a kind of DANCES WITH WOLVES/MAN CALLED HORSE angle to it. But that is what Cameron does, takes well established films in other genres and just puts them in a sci-fi context or a different location and creates something familiar but new (THEM! became ALIENS). -
But that really will not be necessary. Glad to hear you are doing good.
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"an Alien comes down to Earth and disguised as a HUMAN falls in love with a human woman?"
That is what I wanted to write. -
Then you have problems far beyond not being educated in cinema.Why you need to watch other movies is to see and understand where the story of Avatar has been done before. All you see is alien sex nonsense, the story actually centers around a gung ho soldier who changes sides in the midst of trying to fight the enemy, he realizes he is fighting on the worng side, sees the plight of the so called enemy and joins them. Been done before, many times. But hey it's an alien sex fantasy to you, indulge all you want then.
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Star Man is not exactly an alien. His body is a reconstructed body of a dead guy from his DNA found in hair. His midn is of the alien, but his body is fully human. Bascially,it's Avatar in revers,e the alien uses a body based on human DNA, which in Avatar was the reverse.
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Star Man was a cute comedy romance movie. Avatar was a big action adventure romance story.
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Why does every thread turn into a "What I hate about movies" by Asimov Lives.
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because there are more movies that i dislike then like. It's all a matter of probabilities, really.
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Why are people comparing Inception to Avatar? Inception will make about 300 mil and then fade way until the DVD comes out.
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... you silly boy.
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Basically AVATAR is the reverse of STAR MAN.
And yes RPLocke, they are not exactly the same film. I am just commenting on how the set-up (Alien being living amongst different alien beings disguised as them) has been done before, albeit differently. -
Jul 07, 2010 3:42:32 PM CDT
Actually I loved that aspect too. He's a soldier so it was easy
by ultratron
for him to kick the other navi ass when he had to make a point. And when sully's character finally builds to the point where he is so much the fusion of warrior and avatar that his bravado takes over part of his character and he's prepared to stand toe to toe with quatrich in an amp suit. Pure chills. Everything good art stands for.
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Never knew that.
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Prety much. unless there is real DNa compatibility. and if there is, then, how can that even happen? Unless humans are genetic spawns from the kryptonians. Otherwise, yup, it's beastiliaty for ol' Lizzie.
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Jul 07, 2010 3:46:19 PM CDT
No question Lois could fuck a donkey if she can handle steel coc
by ultratron
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"and he's prepared to stand toe to toe with quatrich in an amp suit. Pure chills. Everything good art stands for"Picasso missed on that. Imagine how much different "Guernica2 would had been, if Picasso had taken that into consideration. Damn him for making criticism and condemnation of war and fascism, all we really need is just shit blowing up!
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"Man of Steel, Women of Tissue', because if you haven't you really should.
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what's that about?
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Well, INCEPTION probably won't make as much as AVATAR, but AVATAR's revenue is inflated by the IMAX ticket prices.
INCEPTION looks pretty cool on their Facebook page. Love Ken Watanabe's page too--they're giving out free stuff apparently. Check it out here: http://bit.ly/saitofb -
Avatar is NOTHING LIKE Starman, Gaad, your views on movies are fucked up.
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http://tinyurl.com/2x4as
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Or maybe you just can't see beyond mere the superficial and cosmetic differences and notice actual similarities between things.
Alien from an advance specie comes come to another planet disguised as a member of that race and falls in love.
QUICKLY - what movie is that? -
Is it better than Paprika that I can't get my friends to watch. Is it better than the episode of next gen where Picard lives a whole lifetime? That's a great episode.
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The implication in TDK was that Joker was specifically recruiting the mentally ill. Whereas we can *accuse* the SS of being mentally ill but there isn't actually proof of such. Maybe they were just incredibly misinformed dicks. My point is that whatever you think about the SS, they were soldiers for whom discipline was part of their life. Asylum escapees? Yeah, not so much...
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The 5th Element?
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Just found this tidbit.."The studio arm of the company has announced that the upcoming porn version of the film, titled "This Ain’t Avatar XXX", will be presented in 3-D. Such are the production costs, that Hustler is calling it their highest-budget flick ever produced."Reminds me that one of Alan Ball's (writer of American Beauty, Six Feet Under and True Blood)prized possessions is a copy of American Booty, made after the sucess of the award winning American Beauty.
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The trailers on tv are mind- blowing. I was a fan of long-forgotten movies like Dreamscape that mix characters dabbling in dream-reality. The premise Mr. Beaks teases with sounds great. James Bond actor comparisons aside, I liked "On Her Majesty's Secret Service". This was a exciting review, I hope the movie lives up to it.
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That's a new one. Heard all the tedious comparisons to Pocahontas and Dances with Wolves ad nauseam, but not that. Starman was just a rip of ET. What's next - Avatar a remake of Mac and Me?
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Actually, Aliens is Rio Bravo and Zulu...with Xenomorphs!
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add a dash of Southern Comfort. Cameron has always said it's a Vietnam analogy.
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Not a very creative title...remmeber when porn pastiches of Hollywood movies had titles like The Sperminator and Lord of the,er...'Rings'? Larry Flynt can do better.
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Alien is the haunted house in space, and Aliens is a Western - the colony being the ol'frontier town. Or vietnam compound, or whatever you like. And the Aliens being vietcong or mad cajun hillbillies.
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Thats about the best I could come up with.
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I keep trying.
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"hell, even Mean Girls...any movie where the hero switches sides and takes the side of the so-called "enemy"."Well, I'm sure any movie could be called generic if you're going to be as vague as that. Avatar is just Birth of a Nation in reverse! DW Griffith's ghost should sue!
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'Erection' - Leo's corporate spy will be paid by a perverted CEO to enter the mind of a large breasted employee in order to implement the thought that she should seduce her boss, but she sends her own spy into the wet dreams of her lecherous boss to make him believe he has erectile disfunction and cannot get it up. Raunchy hi-jinks ensue!
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Hmmm, the character development is about the same, they have that in common.
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That's the key difference.
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http://www.threadless.com/ product/2352/ Little_Warrior
;) -
I was wondering when someone would catch my Mean Girls reference.
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Jul 07, 2010 5:45:31 PM CDT
IndustryKiller!, I already have one of those
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
I've got a pair of pajamas with that on it as well.
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And I hope your tongue was planted firmly in cheek...shame on you.
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AVATAR and STAR MAN comparisons are that they are both fish out of water stories. No matter what, they are both going to have some similarities - human disguises himself as an alien to join there culture is going to have some similarities with alien disguising himself as a human. In both cases culture shock and trying to fit in plays a part, it is just the question of is the culture or the person in it the one we are not familiar with.
ALIENS can be compared to a lot of movies, but I still stand that it was heavily influenced by THEM!, as well as a bunch of other 1950s Sci-Fi films. The exact same movie, no. But Cameron is always taking stuff he saw as a kid and updating it for modern audiences.
THEM! is about a hive of giant ants. ALIENS is about a hive of insect like aliens.
In THEM! The heroes encounter a young, traumatized girl an attack. In ALIENS the heroes encounter a young traumatized girl who survived an attack.
In THEM! the Air Force and Army fight the ants. In ALIENS they are confronted by future Marines.
In THEM! the heroes have to go down in the sewers and water tunnels of LA to rescue some young boys. In ALIENS Ripley has to go down into the water ducts to find Newt.
In THEM! the hero uses a flame thrower against the ants, and to help escape the egg chamber and queen. In ALIENS the hero uses a flamethrower against the Xenomorphs to escape the egg chamber and Queen.
And finally, Cameron used other Sci-Fi movies for inspiration. Remember the fight between the Queen and Ripley in the Exo-Armor. Doesn't it seem strangely familiar to this scene from DINOSAURUS!
http://tinyurl.com/38q9omx
That is what Cameron does - he takes things from other movies and genres and puts them in a different context. In THEM! the US Armed forces were viewed as always heroic and the guys who get things done - they had just won WWII after all. But ALIENS was made after Vietnam where the idea that the military can solve and always win became a thing to be doubted. Same in the movie. -
Excuse the 10 million spelling, grammar and typos. Embarrassing.
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Jul 07, 2010 6:02:14 PM CDT
The original Alien was cobbled together as well
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
It! The Terror from Beyond Space (almost a beat by beat copy in some places); Mario Bava's Planet of the Vampires; and even Cronenberg's Shivers. Not to mention even slasher movies of the 70's like Halloween, 50's haunted house movies, and of course, Jaws. Cameron was just following the tradition of the original, which itself appropriated other sources in different genres (or even the same genre)and transferred them to new contexts.Yes, I see the point you're making about Starman but I feel that its reductively selective and very vague. There are only about 7 basic story templates in narrative. As annoying as they are, the comparisons to Pocahontas and Dances with Wolves are more appropriate regarding specifics, settings, tone, etc. RPLocke is a ridiculous character but he was right - Starman is a quirky comedy/drama cum road trip sentimental fairytale, nothing like Avatar in any concrete terms. I don't think there's any chance of somebody seeing that movie and Avatar being immediately brought to mind.
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Jul 07, 2010 6:05:22 PM CDT
I agree that Cameron does do that but so does
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
nearly every genre director. Lucas and the heavily Kurosawa and World War 2 influenced Star Wars for starters. That's really the nature of genre and pop filmmaking by default.
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because he's so nervous about gettin' his ass beat. I'm gonna shut out your lights in just a few short weeks cunti.
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I just brought it up as the fact you could make that comparison. One is about the human experience of entering an alien culture; the other is about an alien entering a human culture. The flip side of the same coin. Like you said, RPLocke is a ridiculous character, he took it to mean I was saying they are the exact same thing (despite me saying "yes RPLocke, they are not exactly the same film. I am just commenting on how the set-up (Alien being living amongst different alien beings disguised as them) has been done before, albeit differently.").
If anything I think it is a compliment. Like you said there is only Seven stories, or as Howard Hawks said there is no new stories just new locations and characters you can put in them. That is what Cameron did - I give him credit for that (and once again, if you read my original post I do compliment him on doing that - putting a new spin and things in a new context).
As for ALIEN I think one of the big influences was the Creepy Old House movies of the 30s like THE CAT AND THE CANARY or THE BAT WHISPER. I saw some of those than saw ALIEN and was impressed by how much Scott milked the suspense angle when he had them searching for the creature. Everything he did with the xenomorph in the BG moving slowly down on his victims reminds me of the killers in those movies creeping stealthily towards his victims. Plus the entire searching a dark, creepy place for a killer (could of had Scooby Doo on board that ship). -
Starman was a funny, romantic comedy type movie. Besides Bridges was playing a character that was supposed to be emulating the female characters dead husband. The hero in Avatar wasn't trying to impersonate anyone.
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There is only two ways this is going to turn out. You chickening out or me kicking the living shit out of you. That is the only way this is going to turn out.
Now keep talking to make yourself appear tough. I find it amusing. -
Jeff Bridges' Starman character was like a child among us hu-mans, with an innocence and naivete to reflect our baser nature. Once again proving that most of us human beings are greedy, lousy bastards..wait, maybe there's not that much difference after all.
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Did Bridges take the form of her dead husband so he could fit in with humanity? Why yes he did.
And you do know things can be similar and still be in other genres, right? The original NUTTY PROFESSOR couldn't possibly have any similarities with DR. JECKYLL AND MR. HYDE, now could it, because one is a comedy and the other is a horror movie. -
I'm gonna fuckin stomp your face open...OPEN. I'll be there no matter what, that's my vacation. You won't show, I know you're chicken shit. Check your facebook, I said "hello"
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I know the original is a beloved '50s sci-fier, I grew up watching it several times on tv, but your description of Them makes it sound like an ideal choice for remake/reboot/re-whatever ala Carpenter's The Thing.
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Jul 07, 2010 6:34:16 PM CDT
I even pulled this picture off your profile
by mjs_cold_dead_pale_corpse
It's you and Cobra--Kai: http://tinyurl.com/2vhoxc6
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Tell you what, keep telling me what you are going to do to me because then I won't feel bad when we meet.
Keep digging yourself deeper. -
You enjoyed looking for that a lot I bet.
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Your attempts at psychological warfare are pathetic and obvious MJ.
You fucked up. -
How was Jake trying to fit in with humanity? He WASN'T. He fell in love with the Navi girl. THAT WAS IT. He wasn't trying to get in touch with humanity. He already had it.
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Here's a link for an alternate trailer that focuses on the characters, I hadn't seen it yet:http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810099246/info Looks sweet!!
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Jake wasn't trying to fit in with humanity. BUT HE SURE AS FUCK WAS TRYING TO FIT IN WITH THE NAVI! Otherwise why take a NAVI body? Both in AVATAR and STAR MAN they took those forms so they WOULDN'T FUCKING STICK OUT with the group they were studying! And in the process they connected with someone from that species. Sorry, but that makes it a legitimate comparison. The exact same story - no - but are they touching upon similar themes, yeah they probably are.
AVATAR is basically STAR MAN in reverse - a human disguising himself and insinuating himself in an alien culture versus an alien disguising himself and insinuating himself in human culture.
How hard is it to see that comparison or are you just trying to be combative for your own sake? -
Jul 07, 2010 7:07:16 PM CDT
Fact is stranger than fiction: google "WTC 7"
by crispin_glovers_acid_flashback
Movies may be great escapism, but we can never escape the fact that we are all characters in a big and bold science-fiction/hero's journey story. To quote Waking Life, "We are the authors of ourselves, co-authoring a gigantic Dostoyevsky novel starring clowns." No reason to be bored.
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Give it a rest man, you're just making up bull shit. Go watch Sin City for the 100th time you brain dead ass.
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And you are retarded. No, seriously. Either that or you suffer from a serious case of Asperger's syndrome or something.
If you cannot grasp the basic idea of how AVATAR and STAR MAN are both based on the same concept - a sci-fi variation of the "fish out of water" story line and the "Stranger in a strange land" - and can't see that similarity no how many times I explain it, you shouldn't be allowed to post here. -
Jul 07, 2010 7:18:43 PM CDT
Bldg 7 and Boho Grove on I-75 billboard
by crispin_glovers_acid_flashback
http://tinyurl.com/2ecxu5tAlso, a video that clearly shows WTC 7 was demolished:http://tinyurl.com/2d52eynMuch love to you all.
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Thanks for the heads-up. I'll look into it.
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Jul 07, 2010 7:30:43 PM CDT
Hey Breast Milk/ Spazatronik 2000 and your many aliases
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Shut the fuck up, you Alex Jones spamming puppet. Avatar for the fucking win!! Conspiracy crap for dumb fucks like you. Now tell me - what happened to your partner in crime, that Nerd Rage Retard Strength cunt? He became Ash Williams then Sansara07, didn't he? Fuck you and him!! A - V -A -T -A -R!!!!!
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Jul 07, 2010 7:37:36 PM CDT
Scarlett: we get it man. It's just that back in 2001 when there
by ultratron
when everyone saw there was no hole whatsoever in the pentagon moments after the attack- they chose to try and ignore it in the face of all known reason and science. Now we live in AINO.
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That movie wasn't even good! It was BORING! John Carpenter movies are always hit and miss. GADDD!
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Jul 07, 2010 7:51:06 PM CDT
Yes, Cameron is a hack - Avatar ONLY at 83%
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Ya dumb fuck, Inception hasn't even been reviewed by the full roster of publications/websites yet - it isn't even released til next week. It will remain high, but you think it's going to stay at 100%? Not after Armond White has his say, I can tell you that.Tell me Spastic cunt, is Cameron a member of the Illuminati, too? A-V-A-T-A-R FTW. You should be personally bowing before Cameron; he showed the truth of 9/11 and illegal wars/occupations in Avatar.
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A shame he can't get a job while Mikey Bay commands millions of $.
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Sadly the conspiracy people got one for Cameron as well. http://tinyurl.com/kseo5q
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After you're done kicking the piss out of MJ would you mind putting SCARLETT_JOHANSSONS_BREAST_MILK into the ICU? Thanks.
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Some people have WAY too much time on their hands.
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That's a dangerous thing right there, and it's sadly rampant in America these days.
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Jul 07, 2010 8:13:48 PM CDT
Sigh....(I really shouldn't take the bait,but what the hell)
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
1. Avatar didn't cost $500 million. Not even close. That was some bullshit magically invented by the sensationalist media to create a story and that was later proved to be completely false. It is, however, the kind of unsubstantiated grandstanding bullshit that a dumbfuck like you would swallow hook,line, and sinker. The media knows its audience.2.The film made $2.7 billion dollars, and billions more in DVD/ blu-ray and licensing deals. Not to mention oscar noms, golden globe wins, critical acclaim, mass audience popularity, technological breakthroughs, etc, etc. Biggest failure in history? You crack smoking loon - Avatar is one of the biggest success stories of recent years, and one of the most acclaimed sci fi movies ever (certainly by mainstream standards). 3.Top 25 of what, you absolute idiot? Rotten tomato tallies, IMDB ratings? Its in the top of all these things, and these things mean zilch anyway because of the way they are tabulated.4.I'd rather get root canal than have to suffer you continually ruining talkbacks with your inane infowars spamming. I'm sure this is a sentiment shared by many. You should be banned, and I rarely call for anyone's banning. But braindead spammers like you are a waste of everyone's fucking time.
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Word of advice - continually writing in block capitals makes you look like a retard - but since you are one, and wear the mantle proudly, I'm sure the insinuation will not be viewed as character assassination on your part.
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You should be thanking John Carpenter for exposing the lizard like forms of the ruling class.DISINFOWARS.COM
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You are as deluded as a shit house rat.Rotten tomato ratings mean nothing (and Avatar has a high percentage of acclaim there anyway, so your point is absolutely moot regardless). Know why? Because recent movies have their scores tabulated from 100's of reviews, including obscure and meaningless and even contrarian publications and websites. Classic sci fi movies such as Blade Runner and SW and 2001 have a much smaller pool of reviews from which their percentages are tabulated - and these reviews aren't the original ones, either. 2001 and Blade Runner, for example, are classics, but they received many mixed and even bad reviews when they were first released. The tomato meter does not reflect this. Instead, most of the reviews for these movies are from later re-releases once the films had been re-evaluated and now garner universal praise. It is now a done thing to praise Blade Runner; not so at the time. And even these reappraisals are only from a much smaller pool of top professional critics than those for new films, where every two bit pimp, small town rag columnist,alternative press reviewer, and idiot fanboy webmaster will have his say. You fail, fuck head.Still butt hurt that Avatar made billions of dollars, huge profits, and was, even accounting for inflation, along with Titanic, the most popular film of the last 25 years? You have to retreat into deluded fantasies and denial to cope with the humiliation and shame, huh, dickhead? Heh, heh, I love it.And please stop talking about Nolan. You are not worthy of being his fan, either. You are as thick as pig shit, and Inception is as likely to go zooming over your stinking head as that other conspiratorial caveat - chemtrails.
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$2.7 billion (with a large profit margin) and an oscar nom for best picture and director says otherwise.And no, it cost about $280 million. Wash out your stinking ears and let some air into your pea brain.
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Jul 07, 2010 8:46:02 PM CDT
Well, if an episode of Futurama is ranked above Avatar
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
(and indeed by some bizarre rating system one of the greatest pieces of art ever made)it must be true, huh? Tell me, will the legions of dorks rating Inception over and over again with perfect 10's, elevating it to no.1 on the IMDB above Rashomon, Citizen Kane, and Casablanca, also be correct?
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That's the real joke here. You relly are that stupid. Shows the kind of gullible fools that believe in Alex Jones and his cottage industry of conspiracy, eh? I rate your posts about 07% - on the Turd-o-meter (for measuring basic IQ!)
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Do they give mental patients access to the internet now as part of their treatment? You really do learn something new every day. I hope they still keep you cunts away from knives and matches, though.
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unstable/conspiracy nutballs loose in the talkback. Are there really still morons that think Avatar cost 500 million? And that snore fest Moon was more entertaining than Avatar? Bwhahaahahah....yeah thats why it made like 15 mil worlwide because audiances were so entertained and just could nt get enough lol. That was sarcasm btw....
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"brain trust" of Orci and Kurtzman which has some of the most ridiculous coincidences (Kirk meeting spock in the cave) its possible for a script to have is a sign of quality while Avatar's is bad has fuckall credibility (and I enjoyed Star Trek).
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I'll let AsimovLives fill you in on the rest. But it makes sense that a retard like you was entertained by Jay Jay's magic lightshow. As for Moon - that's beyond your intelligence.Avatar is one of the most acclaimed sci-fi movies ever, by any measurable yardstick (financial, technological breakthrough, audience popularity, critical). That cannot be denied. Deal with it, you shit house rat.
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Never use the word conspiracy theory. There are none. There are fact hypothesises and nothing besides. Now nobody has even attempted to answer my question. Who should play the head of earth badguy central in Avatar 2? Agent smith? Chris Walken? Who is most worthy?!
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Jul 07, 2010 9:09:43 PM CDT
southafricanguy, this cunt is our old nemesis
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Spazatronik2000. Remember him and Nerd Rage? The demented loons are back for more (well, one of em, anyway).
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is still wasting their time spamming a talkback to trash a movie they claim to hate (you seem just a tad too damn obsessed). Maybe you should try to accept that many people like something you dont, or barring that grow up.
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cunts that "predicted" Avatar's mass failure. God, it must eat them up inside how much money Avatar has made lol. 2.7 billion, 20 million DVD/blu rays sold in the first three weeks of release, Oscar noms, and a good critical rating. Oh, how it must sit in their craw
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Jul 07, 2010 9:14:26 PM CDT
This statement reveals your fundamental lack
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
of intelligence: "YA I THOUGHT THERE WAS AN INTERNET IN 1954 WHEN ROTTEN TOMATOES GAVE "TURDS TINY BRAIN FROM OUTER SPACE" 100% LMAO WHAT A MORON!!!!!!!.I'm talking about the fact that the RT archives don't contain reviews from the time of release and thus tabulate their scores accordingly and fairly (for comaprison with newer releases), NOT that there was actually an internet in existence in the fucking 60/70/80's when they were literally first released. You absolute turkey.
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, spin offs, and a lot of expansion media to piss you off. Enjoy.......Toodles
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ng with himself, this must be the runnig dialouge he constantly has with himself to deal with how wrong he was about Avatar's box office success lol...Too damn funny
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Jul 07, 2010 9:19:44 PM CDT
Lactating cunt, who are you trying to convince
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
with your litany of automaton-like statements (much like Trannyformers cunt). Yourself, or us? Because you're shit out of luck with the latter. Keep on repeating these 'facts' (And outright lies) with your fingers in your ears, like a baby cooing itself to sleep. It just might make the big, bad Avatar movie go away, huh? Come to think, there are definite parallels between your blind, deluded beliefs concerning Avatar and your belief in crackpot conspiracies based on no rationality or facts. One could see how such an individual could so readily fall for that nonsense. I hope characters like Alex Jones milk you for everything you and the sheep 'believers' have got. You deserve to be exploited.
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whole actual tragic disaster thing though. I was hoping for a Hollywood ending where the Lusitania came to a speedy rescue
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blah blah, blah blah etc....Yeah, I think we got it. But then we got after the first 10 million times you said it. Now, kindly, GO GET A LIFE ASSHOLE, or barring that, GROW THE FUCK UP YOU INTELLECTUALLY STUNTED MAN-CHILD......
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Fuck off moron, bash Avatar some more. It's only at 80 percent on RT, you douche.
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Blah blah blah,.....I hate Avatar...blah blah blah, I hate Avatar...blah blah blah blah...I hate James Cameron...blah blah blah....repeat endlessly........
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Jul 07, 2010 11:19:51 PM CDT
Avatar didn't just take the general story of other movies..
by the dark shite
ALL the characters have been directly lifted from those movies too. The woman, teaching him her culture, the "Baddass" native who doubts him, the "badguy" military type intent on conquering..
Let's see..Dances With Wolves..The Last Samurai, elements of pocahontas..fuck, even Pathfinder. Maybe the only original character is Sigourney Weaver's (& even that could be seen as Timothy Spall's character in The Last Samurai).
The only good thing about Avatar was the way it looked & I'm being kind, because the 3D didn't work well for me. Maybe 'cause I had to wear my own glasses under the 3D ones. Or maybe I've wanked away my depth perception:-). -
Avatar was SCI FI!!! It wasn't fucking Dances with Wolves. It was JUST like any Star Trek episode where Kirk would go into a planet culture and change it up in ten minutes. SHUT UP!!!
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Your broken leg may have healed, but that doesn't mean you can't get another. I know more about film than you know about life in general, you wonky little sailor boy.
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Who the fuck are you? Steven Spielberg?
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Stroke my beard, bitch.
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cunt! Just like you have been boring the the hell out of everyone with your spamming bullshit and endlessly repeating yourself. I dont know whats funnier, your complete and utter lack of self awareness or the complete lack of irony in you calling anyone else boring....
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I just read some of the loonie posts above. I actually looked forward to Avatar & saw it on Christmas day. I just felt that story-wise, I'd seen it before. It was a good event movie, great visually, I'd probably see a sequel. But it wasn't the classic some claim it to be.
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desires onto me pal. Im sure you can find some dude to ram his dick up your asshole without trolling for it here in the AICN talkbacks.....
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not actually fair to accuse Avatar of copying Dances with Wolves for one simple reason (and it displays an ignorance of pulp serail sci-fi)Because Dances itself borrows rather heavily from much older source material. Namely John Carter of Mars, which is the admitted main inspiration for Avatar. And for the record Darkshite, I also felt the story was the weak point of Avatar, I for one hope that it the number one thing Cameron remedies for the sequal, especially considering that he has generally had good stories in his past films...
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not actually fair to accuse Avatar of copying Dances with Wolves for one simple reason (and it displays an ignorance of pulp serail sci-fi)Because Dances itself borrows rather heavily from much older source material. Namely John Carter of Mars, which is the admitted main inspiration for Avatar. And for the record Darkshite, I also felt the story was the weak point of Avatar, I for one hope that it the number one thing Cameron remedies for the sequal, especially considering that he has generally had good stories in his past films...
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WHATS ALL THIS HAPPY HORSE SHIT ABOUT??????
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Is it my PC, or is this thing really slow? I type & it takes 2 minutes for the words to appear. Anyway.. I must admit, I've never actually read any of the John Carter stuff. I wouldn't call it an ignorance of serial sci-fi, so much as a total lack of interest in the subject matter. I know the story quite well, through friends. It just doesn't appeal to me, so I can't really comment on something I haven't read. The thing is, that maybe even proves my point a little. While I at least know of John Carter of Mars, the majority don't. Most probably have seen the aforementioned movies however & would still recognise the same characters, rehashed. I dunno, I think I just expected more originality from a movie that took so long to make & was so beautifully crafted in all other respects. I'm hoping Inception will bring the kind of depth I was hoping for.
Anyway, whatever's wrong with my pc, isn't conducive for this kind of post. I can't think clearly of what I wanna say, because I can't see the words I'm typing. I bet this will take 30 minutes for the text to show up, so I can post it. Weird. -
I can't believe you just tried to insult me with my own self-insult:-). I can just see you now, giggling with glee, thinking "Oh, I really got him with that one. I'm a genius tee hee!!".......Tosser.
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large amount of posts/sapmming from boring idiots like SJBM. I can see where you are coming from, but you do have to realize that its the very stuff Cameron grew up reading, and his intention was to make a modernized/updated version of it. Now that either appeals to you or it does nt. For me, I love classic pulp serial sci-fi, so I loved what Cameron did conceptually, imho he succeeded at updating John Carter. And as a big fan of heavy metal magazine, and anime, I loved the look and design of everything, and how colorful it all was. Avatar really looked like the pages of heavy metal brought to life. Anyway...as I said the story, or rather its simplicity, was the big dissapointment for me. As I have already said, its the number one thing that HAS to be remedied for the sequal. I think there is great potential for what could be done storywise in the universe Cameron has created, it now simply remains for Cameron to do that....
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that posts without the slightest hint of irony or self awarness is like being called stupid by a retard. Like being called stupid by George Bush....either way it cant be taken seriously.....
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not interested, no matter how many times you try to troll around here for some gay action, you are nt going to get. I suggest you try your friends....
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Let's compare Avatar to more movies. I think Avatar is like Caddyshack, because they both take place in a forest.
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OMG! Your Screen Name is longer than Avatar. BTW, Avatar was one of the better winter movies of recent years. Sherlock Holmes was good too. Better than Iron Man 2 even.
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Jul 08, 2010 1:32:08 AM CDT
RPLocke, have you ever heard of Comparative Literature?
by continentalop
What the Hell are we supposed to compare Avatar to if not other movies? Sculptures? Album covers? Sports teams?
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Then you failed even more than I thought. IF you didn't know that shite means shit, then a "joke" like "DARK SHIT OH SORRY I MEANT DARK SHITE", is a little embarassing for you. If you did know, then it fails on every concievable level. It's a joke without a punchline. Like this kid I knew at school who used to go up to girls & say "You use tampons he he he".It's simply stating a fact, that only you find funny.
I'm worried for you. Seriously.That "joke" shows a worryingly low intellect & an underdeveloped sense of humour.
Hope you liked stroking my magnificent Speilberg beard by the way. I'm assuming that's what took you so long to come back with such an ill-thought out reply. Luxurious isn't it? Now get back to it, before I decide to do the humane thing & have you shot. -
OMG are you still up? Go to bed. Your pimp is calling.
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I'll grant you that.
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Let's face it, it's the only way such a gormless, charisma-free zone as you is gonna get laid.
Uncle Dave doesn't count. If you have to keep it as "our little secret", then as far as the rest of the world outside the torture chamber knows, you're still a little limpet with a low I.Q who can't get laid.
& why would I go to bed in the middle of the afternoon? Unlike you, I don't need to rest a wrecked anal cavity. -
OMG what a nerd.
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Holy fuck, what a cunt.
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There's no dissing of MOON on my watch, mister! Two rights do not make a wrong. You don't need to bash the excelent MOON to praise the fine AVATAR, man! Show your love for AVATAR all you want, but don't do that at the expense of MOON. Two rights do not make a wrong!
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... the most commercially sucessful movie since TITANIC. There's no debating that. Those are facts. If the movie has dramtic flaws,that's another mater. But to try to use accounting to bring down AVATAR is just stupid. That is the very thing nobody can ever make an argument to bring down AVATAR. Migth as well try to dry all the water of the oceans with a hairdrier, it's the same result.
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... quality. The exceklent THE DARK KNIGHT was a huge sucess. The good but flawed AVATAR was a super-huge sucess. The mediocre obnoxious TRASHFORMERS 2 was a huge sucess. Again and again people bringthe box office, but the truth is, as movies themselves, in matters of their qualiy, it is irrelevant. It's two sujects altogether different. Too many great movies failed at the box offcie, too many trash movies made bank. It would be fine is this equation of quality to box office would be put tor est once and for all. It's a subject beyond dead. Sure, it's fine that once in a while a truly great movie gets hugely sucessful (like TDK) but that makes no difference about the movie's own quality. It just means it caugh on the zeitgeist, and that's just luck with a side help of effective advertizement, that's all.
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...seriously, you're going to even come a millimeter from talking trash about Avatar's script and continue to sound the trumpet of TDK's brilliance? How can you recognize the weakness of Avatar's script and still place that fundamentally flawed TDK script on a pedestal?
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Because Avatar's script is flawed and TDK's script is brillant. Easy question to answer, friend.
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What a great little flame war. You guys should meet up at Comic Con too.
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It'll be the only way I get certain people to watch Alex Jones.
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If it's not a sequel,remake, based on a toy (or the literary equivalent thereof)or a mediocre TV series, I'm just not interested. Hopefully no other Directors will try to make THINK!! I have a headache already.
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Rest your troubled head, there's always Michelle Bay and Jar Jar Abrams for you to the rescue. You are actually getting the better end of the deal, because you have lots and lots of dumb movies to enjoy, while we who like smart movies only have INCEPTION and nothing else. Literally, nothing else! Pity us, dude! Ours is a tale of sorrow.
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This year we have ONE big smart Sf movie. It's sad, but smart SF cinema cames in very small quantities, they came in small sliced morsels. Quality SF is not something to be delivered in generous quantities, alas! Fucking Holywood!
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... MOON and DISTRICT 9, of course. I wanted to make this clear for those who were confused by the statement.
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Batman isn't Really an Action Hero.
I can more easily believe in Superman flying than I can believe in Batman's "Ghost Magic" that lets him leap about and defeat ohhh a dozen or so armed opponents. There is no armor that will stop a rifled bullet I'm afraid. Or maybe I'm just old enough to remember a time when Batman wasn't expected to overcome 10 guys with his fists. What happened to the modern Sherlock Holmes? Now even Sherlock Holmes just blows shit up.
Also, I laughed out loud when Nolan had his Batman removing bullet fragments before the police 'contaminated' the crime scene.
Joker was great, but he was like an idiot-God. He seemed invincible. He also had nothing in common with comic-book joker. He was completely sane, just evil. That was disappointing.
I found the film amazing visually, but the characters were incredibly flat - I really was unable to connect with anyone except the commissioner, and I wanted to tell him to get the hell out of the city -
with 10 minutes footage.
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on 2 legs before he is crippled.
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my son can finally see it in ultra 3D
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Bullshit! TDK has some of the best action made in the last 25 years. Just because Christopher Nolan doesn't make action scenes like michelle Bay doesn't mean they are bad. Quite the contrary, nolan's action scenes are brillant pieces of filmmaking. If you guys are fucked up because you are so used to michelle Bsay's action stuff bullshit crap, that's your problem, not Nolan's. Nolan's action scenes are as they should, and they are a welcome respiste and antidote to the Michelle Bay's bullshit that pollutes and conspurcates modern action cinema.
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What action movies are all about.
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How about we stop all this dumb ass arguing and just go see Inception already, the movie that will save this summer! Oh right, because some people here are not interested in something original and potentially mind bending.....you know I love me some mindless fun as much as the next person, but damn it's nice when something comes along that challenges your mind, and I believe Inception is going to do that. But let the mindless minions continue the dumb arguments, we all need some entertainment!
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mid film..i cant remember any action in TDK.
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Well said.
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You got to be kidding me! Friend, you shouldn't jest like that.
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Lazy writing by the Nolans/Goyer.
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Talk has to stop to, its one thing if we discuss TDK, its a Nolan film in a Nolan film TB...but Avatar? Come on, it madea shit load of money, was a fun movie, and thats it, that was like what years ago???LOL....surely we can argue about better topics.
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Jul 08, 2010 9:33:57 AM CDT
Dark Shite, Avatar stole its charcters directly from other
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
movies?? Er, those are archetypal charcters that have been used in hundreds of stories over the centuries. You actually think Dances with Wolves/ Last Samurai were the first to use them? Get real. Cameron was ripping Sigourney Weavers' character from Timothy Spall's in the The Last Samurai? Jesus. I'm with RPLocke on this one, sad to say.
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Jul 08, 2010 9:34:53 AM CDT
Alex Jones could replace Ledger as the JOKER
by crispin_glovers_acid_flashback
Audition tape: http://www.youtube.com/watch ?v=RnIWSI2tkDM
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Its been discussed to death - and any mention of its flaws has the zealots jumping down everyone's throats. Apparently we're supposed to sit here and just say 'In Nolan We Trust' over and over, while proclaiming TDK to ve better tahn The Godfather.
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Avatar wasn't a 'failure' in any conceivable sense. Keep on banging the drum, trying to convince yourself. You lost. Why weren't you drowned at birth?
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Re-release in 3D and IMAX 3D. 8 extra minutes of footage.Southafricanguy, you didn't see it in 3D first time out? Now's your chance.
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How good was the action? Good, maybe. But there really wasn't that much action - just sniplets here and there.
And at risk of starting another debate on the topic the fight scenes were not that great. Batman doesn't fight, he just gives the impression of fighting. -
...as we discussed in another TB, a big part might be that damn Batsuit. I doubt Bale or his stunt double can move worth shit in that thing.
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Until the day when there will be no discussion that THE DARK KNIGHT is the brillant film that it is, there will be discussion about this subject for years and years to come. As it should.
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Good? You mean great. It wasn't not that typical Michelle Bay's bullshit. Every action scene in TDK is great, and every one of them mattered to the plot, something you cannot say about 95% of the action bullshit made in the vast majority of blockbusters made today.
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about we give both Avatar and TDK a damn rest now?
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"Until the day when there will be no discussion that THE DARK KNIGHT is the brillant film that it is"See, that's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. No one is saying TDK isn't good, but flawless? I think not. Many have pointed out its very real flaws, all of which have been brushed dismissively aside. That kind of non-critical sycophantic thinking isn't becoming of you, my friend, and doesn't tally with your other posts on differnet subjects. We all might as well cease discussion whatsoever if that kind of Borg-like mentality is in place.
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Moon has sweet fuckall to do with Avatar. I simply found it duller than dishwater. The great "twisr" so many went on about was so damn obvious (unless you have nt seen many movies), and was so obvious I was sure it was a red herring, but no..it was that obvious. And it had nothing new in it visual or otherwise if you have seen any 70s sci-fi films. Now, does this make it a bad film? Of course not. It simply did not appeal to me and I found it boring, plain and simple.
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But how about we compare them to FRENCH CONNECTION, TAXI DRIVER, ROB ROY or THE MATRIX? How well does it hold up against those? Save for the truck chase, I don't think that well.
I'm not going to debate you because you're a zealot. NOTHING is perfect. Fuck, if you can complain about the make up in CITIZEN KANE (which even Welles complained about) you can point out how the fight scenes were not great fight scenes or perfect. -
Hows it going bro? Been a while since we talked, hope all is good with you. It is hot as hell here in NY, combined with our famous humidity, NOT a good combination. Saw Toy Story 3 last weekend, great, just great, Pixar simply can do no wrong IMO. Looking forward to Inception, looks like it's gonna be a mind bender. How are things in your neck of the woods?
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that internet cliche Scarletjohannsons..(obsessed, man child afflicted crybaby/loser that cant handle that many people like something he is obsessed with/hates) is that I am able to understand how my opinion differs from fact, and not be under the delusional that my opinion is fact.....
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humid and moggy here in Korea. Im doing good though, Toy Story 3 has nt been released here yet, but im dying to see it dude, could nt agree with you more about Pixar.They are having a marathon of all Pixar films on tv here, and I have been catching up on all the Pixar films. So highly re-watchable...
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Agreed on TDK discussions, I have said many times that I love that film, but it is NOT without flaws, and to deny that is short sighted, and indicitive of the kind of behavior most of us deplore.My friend Asimov is quick to point out every single flaw, small or big, of movies he despises, yet when it comes to movies he loves, he tends to brush off any flaws as irrelevent. I understand that metality, we have all had it with films we love. We all defend the films we love, but to basically ignore the fact that they have flaws, is silly and not something we put up with in reverse situations. My favorite film of all time is Star Wars (the first, I refuse to call it A New Hope) I have seen it literally hundreds of times. Is it perfect? To me it is, but I still recognize that it has flaws. A movie can be perfect to us but we can still recognize its flaws, thats being rational. Ignoring flaws is irrational, period. No disrespect meant to anyone, but it's the truth.
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Joker's bank robbery;Batman's apreention of Scarecrow;Batman's apreention of the chinese bookie in Hong Kong;The shooting of GordonThe truck chase;The Joker's escape;Wayne goes after the cop who wants to kill the squeeler;The hospital destruction;Batman goes after Maroni in his nightclub and fights the henchmen;Batman rescues the hostages;Batman runs from the cops.All those memorable scenes that would look awesome in any movie.
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dude, I am a big fan of Nolan's, I cant wait for Inception, have loved all his films so far, and he has my lifetime respect for finally getting batman right on screen imho, but I too think action is his weak point. Too much close ups for one thing, and over way too fast for someone like me that likes long sustained action set pieces that flow naturally from one to the other....
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MOON was dull? Does not compute!! Every second of that movie is enthralling, interesting and awesome. You can love both AVATAR and MOON, you know?
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Yea, thats so true, they are extremly re-watchable. But I am ashamed to say that I have not yet seen Wall-e. The worst part of that is I have it at home...buried somewhere LOL but I do have it. TS3 is just great when it's released there see it asap, its hilarious and sentimental, got me a bit teary even. The new characters are great and welcome additions. Anyways enough of my pimping of TS3. Looking forward to Inception?
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I did not ended my post with the phrase you quoted. It ended with a final punchline. The punchline of my post was "As it should". Which in the context of the post means "there is no end to the subject". You know what i mean?
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Avatar. I like slower intellectual films too dude. I love Blade Runner for one, but Moon seriously bored the shit out of me. I place it alongside Watchmen as one of those films that htinks it far more clever than it actually is. Plus Devin Farce loves it so that almost automatically means it s seriously overrrated lol. Seriously though, again, the twist I saw a mile off, and it had nothing new for me visually, or conceptually. I need more than a small budget, or an arty feel to be impressed. Look at pitch Black, or the first Terminator, or Star trek WOK, or D9 all very small budget films that are smart, have great action, and are as entertaining as hell. Moon almost irritated me becuase of its art house darling feel, and then it turns out to not even be all that clever ....
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They're not Mikey Bay bullshit, but the only one that is above average is the truck chase (just as in BB the only above average was the tumbler chase). Nolan (discounting Inception since I haven't yet seen it) is not that good at action - it's a legitimate chink in his directorial skills. And to deny it is stupid.Batman's apprehension of scarecrow? Borderline incomprehensible. Aprehension in HK? Confusing close quarters fight. An editing mess. Batman rescues the hostages? Ditto. Some of the rest of the things posted wouldn't even qualify as action sequences. I maintain the truck chase was the only thing that stood out.As for Inceptin, maybe he's raised his game. It's possible - unlike Bay, Nolan is smart and analytical, and could certainly improve his weak areas. But Beaks' opinion means nothing to me at all, since he's proved to be a pretentious, pseudo-intellectual dud in all of his past reviews - one of the greatest action scenes in history? Likely ambitious, yes, but that's not the same thing as choreography, blocking and clarity, all of which Nolan has proved to previously have been deficient in. I'm more inclined to believe the guy who posted a review in this talback, saying Inception is a great film but still has these problems. We will see.
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on. Nolan is as great a technician as Cameron, and as much as a perfectionist. Dude, watch Wall-E stat! What thew hell is wrong with you??!! Its a damn good sci-fi film, not an animated film, just a damn good sci-fi film imho...
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"But how about we compare them to FRENCH CONNECTION, TAXI DRIVER, ROB ROY or THE MATRIX?"TDK compares very well with them. Which is the point. You see, many detractors of the action scenes in TDK are the type of love or are very tolerant to the Michelle Bayass's bullshit. As if the fucker was even competent at action, which he isn't. But for some retard reason, even the people who don't like him still claim he is the king of action. Well, i have to point out that not only that Michellette Bayass fuck can't do action, and that TDK's action is how action should be like, and not Michellette Bayasshole's. The way Nolan makes action is the polar opposite of Michellette Bayasshole, and the better for it.
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And the Truck Scene - you would call the rest of these CLASSIC action scenes? Up there with the chase scene in the ROAD WARRIOR or RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, or the fight scene in LETHAL WEAPON or ROCKY? 95% of these you listed are not action scenes to begin with - they are a scene with SOME action in it. I wouldn't list Sonny Corleone beating the shit out of Carlos because there wasn't enough action to make it a ACTION scene. It is like saying a guy who takes six steps is in a dance number - no he is not. He is just doing a little jig. That is what I meant when I said the movie has actually very little action in it.
As for some of those you listed - The Hong Kong scene, the Maroni scene, even the hostage scene - it was chaotic and choppy and only the impression of fighting. Watch the Maroni scene and tell me you get a good idea what Bats is doing with the strobe light going on. You might like the scene because it gives a good IMPRESSION of action, which is a legitimate argument, but it is not an action scene anymore than the staircase scene in FRENZY is a murder scene - it leaves it to your imagination.
Hell, even when you do get a good look at Batman fighting his movements are limited at best. Look at the Hong Kong scene and the Scarecrow scene when he fights the thugs - just a guy throwing punches and swinging with no real sense that he knows how to fight. The only reason we can see he is tough is because he is beating people up - the IMPRESSION that he is tough - but it isn't like we can see that he really knows how to duck a punch and throw a counter punch. The film is just gives us the impression he knows how to fight - it doesn't show it, hence why the fight scenes are not good IMO, which was my only complaint about the action in TDK. -
Jul 08, 2010 11:38:21 AM CDT
Devin Farce has NO integrity whatsoever
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Dude would sell his own mother for studio freebies. His 10/10 for Inception may coincidentally be accurate, but Farce just jumps on bandwagons, pro or contra. Fuck him. I'll believe others regarding Inception, not that fuck.
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I believe in the concept of perfect movies. They don't need to be flawless to be perfect. By perfect, it means, they fullfill all the objectives and intentions they set out to achieve. TDK is one such. Thus, a perfect movie.
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"Batman runs from the cops" as a classic action scene? It's literally just him running and then jumping on a motorcycle. And MOON was far from enthralling, it was OK but rather snooze-inducing.
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has stepped up his game in the action area. But I almost dont care to be honest, hes so damn good in other ways that its ok to me that his action is nt great. But I hear ya Turd, its all about clarity, and the establishment of the geography of the scene. And the real greats can do long sustained action set pieces that never get boring (kind of like a great guitat player whipping out an epic solo imho). Look at the hospital shootout in John Woos Hard Boiled, the three action set pieces strung together at the end of Aliens, T2, True Lies, the Hoth battle in ESB, the mines of Moira sequence in FOTR, the train fight in Spiderman 2 to name just a few off the top of my head....
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Seriously, am I bringing him up? No. It just goes to show you have no fucking argument because you have to create a straw man with Bay.
You want to discuss something, stick to the facts at hand. I never bring up Bay, so stop trying to imply I am praising him over Nolan. It is a cheap tactic and smacks of desperation. -
mention hardly qualify, I think Conti laid it out rather perfectly in his post....
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i love TDK because that movie has little to no flaws to speak of, and not the other way around. I hate and despise Jar Jar Abram's SHIT TREK because that fucking movie is a collection of flaws and stupidity from begining to end, and not the other way around. You get my drift? Not a concept too hard to understand, i trust.
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No one has made a comparison to Bay and Nolan, so why are you bringing that into anything? Lop was making quite good comaprisons....The French Connection has what is probably the single best action sequence ever filmed, and it was not directed by Bay, so tell me what Bay has to do with this discussion, other than the fact that we know you despise him and it's just another opportunity to rag on him? All you said was that TDK compares well with them, then go on a rant about Bay...dude WTF?? Lol Stay on topis, Lop is making some good points and your really not adressing them, your being kinda ignorant my friend, something you despise and readily point out when others do it.
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and dont think he can direct action for shit. I also never mentioned him at all....
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I explained above, not going to do it twice.
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Sounds kind of clinical. Kind of like a porn movie called "Intercourse"
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not addressing Conti 's points, of which he is indeed making quite good ones....
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What you just said I know and understand, but sometimes you behave in a way that you us ually despise, ok, you usually clarify what you say I will give you that, but sometimes we have to drag it out of you, thats all I am saying. What you said about TDK being a perfect movie is the same idea I put towards Star Wars, it achieved all it set out to thus, a perfect film, IMO.
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Barely qualify? That's a head-sreatching statment right there. Are people so desensetized by over-blown dumb action that when proper action is presented in a movie, like in TDK, people cannot relate to it at all? I'm puzzled. Signs of times, i guess. Sights and wonders. Maybe i'm getting too old for this shit.
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one that was less than enthralled by Moon, and just found it ok, and rather snooze inducing.....
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one that was less than enthralled by Moon, and just found it ok, and rather snooze inducing.....
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SW is a perfect movie in that regard indeed, no question about it. It is a cinematic achievement with no compare to the times it was made, and thus, deservedly a classic, and not just because it broke box office barriers.
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Jul 08, 2010 11:55:29 AM CDT
Asi....NO ONE here is a fan of Bay or overblown
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
dumb action, notanybody who's currently posting. Bay is the worst action director of the last 20 years, which is the big irony of idiots saying 'well, his movies are dumb with stupid plots and humor, but he does great action scenes'. No, he does not. Nolan doesn't film action anything like that, he doesn't do MTV aping rapid editing crap, but his blocking, spatial composition and editing in action sequences is not clear either. Not becuase he's appealing to ADHD monkey brains but because he's not that good at it. He is average. He makes up for it in character, story and psychological depth, but his action is not the best on offer.
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... why do you claim that Nolan is a weak/lesser action director (yeah, right!), and why you think that there is a lone action scene in TDK worth mentioning (when in fact there's many others to be awed at)?Is this better?
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Is not just someone running, or guns shooting and people scatter....Gordon's shooting in The Dark Knight? Nope...a great scene, but not an action sequence.The car chase in The French Connection....pure action sequence...The gun battle in the lobby in The Matrix....pure action sequence...The bar fight in Raiders Of The Lost Ark...pure action sequence....Truck chase in The Dark Knight....pure action sequence Those are action scenes, about half of what was cited by Asimov in TDK does not qualify as an action sequence. That does not mean they were not great scenes, they just weren't action scenes, that's all I am saying. There is a difference between an action sequence and a scene that has an action in it.
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By "big dumb action sequences" in other movies, I just know the difference between an action sequence, and a scene that has some quick action in it. Gotta run for now fellas, be back shortly. Keep this going!
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Jul 08, 2010 12:02:19 PM CDT
I've just outlined why his action is deficient
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Must I repeat it? You are deliberately throwing up straw men and red herrings. His action is average because it is not clear nor sustained - it lacks in composition and blocking, and is even edited in a confusing manner. Great action should keep geography and narrative beats clear. The truck chase fares better because it is clear and easy to follow, has many well timed and impressive action beats, clear objectives, and is solidly paced.You are being childish, Asi. That's the kind of thing I expect from Breast Milk and those trolling dickheads, not you.
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I never felt lost with the blocking, spatial composition and editing in the action sequences in any Nolan movie. I always understood what was presented, and i always understood the point of the scenes and why they were done the way they are. It bewilders me when people don't, because i just don't understand what people didn't get, because for me they are beyond obvious and crystal clear. A few days ago i said above that maybe i'm wired to connect to Nolan's movies, and i do, in a profouynd way. His movies are cinematic manna to me. They tick all the right boxes, specially his last 4.
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"I just know the difference between an action sequence, and a scene that has some quick action in it"This is what i'm talking about, because there would be a time when there would be no difference between the two. and now there is? What's the different, how long they run? See, this is another thing that puzzles me about the way so many people see action. That now we have a precious difference between an action sequence and a scene that has some quick action. It's all action, one shorter and another longer. But i guess i'm just not going with the times.
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He is just a director who ISN'T INTO ACTION. It is obvious. His films are heavily influenced by Classic Hollywood Story telling (other than the non-linear element in most of his movies) and the idea of a plot that moves forward. All commendable. I think too much action is a bad thing, just like too much sex in a movie.
But I will say that I do complain about Nolan's fight scenes. He is not a great fight scene director or he just doesn't care about fight scenes. He only worries about giving the impression that a fight is going on. You don't believe me, fine. But watch even the opening fight scene in BB where Bruce Wayne takes on those prisoners, and tell me if you can see any sort of actual fighting versus a bunch of quick cuts to let us get the impression that Wayne did something. It is all based on editing trickery versus showing any actual fighting.
You might even enjoy that and find it commendable - a testament to his skill as an editor (or the skill of his editor). But to me it is like watching CHICAGO and seeing Richard Gere dance - he isn't dancing, it is the editing trying to create that illusion by cutting him to the beat, and the excessive edits and CU of his feet doesn't make me think he is a great dancer as much as makes me aware how he can't f'ing dance and how they are trying to hide it. The excessive technique doesn't create the illusion but destroys it.
Now compare Gere in CHICAGO with Gene Kelly or Fred Astaire - that is a dance scene.
Nolan in TDK makes fight scenes like the dance scene like CHICAGO - impressions of fighting but no real fighting. I want him to turn Bale into Fred Astaire or Gene Kelly of ass kicking, because to believe in a Batman you got to believe he can "dance" (and I am not talking about the Batusi). -
Joker's bank robbery is not a pure action scene? Batman's capture and extraction of the chinise bookie is not a pure action scene? Bruce Wayne in the Lambo going after who is the cop that wants to kill the squeeler is not a pure action scene? The destruction of the hospital is not a pure action scene? The rescue of Joker's hostages by Batman is not a pure action scene? Dude, help me out here!
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"He (Nolan) is just a director who ISN'T INTO ACTION"Not exclusively, no, we agree. But is is not bad at action either. In his action scenes, there is always a point and a porpose. The much maligned fight scenes in BATMAN BEGINS, for instance, people complained about the shaky cam, but i saw a point to them, which is, it's from the point of view of Batman's targets, they don't know what hits them. It seems so obvious to me, and i can't understand why people can't go with it. This is why i say i connect to the way the film was presented. It is so obvious!
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Subjective viewpoint? Every fight scene? To me that is something they used to make up for a deficiency on either Nolan or the movies part (I'm still saying the costume really hindered them).
You show the murder from the POV of a goldfish in a bowl once, it is stylish. You show every murder that way it becomes distracting. -
... I had waited years for avatar and even started posting on here on how excited I was for it, sometimes with SAG (I rarely post, long time lurker) and then I watched avatar, at first I was in awe of the visuals but after a few days I had to admit to myself that it was not a good movie, and it was a hard thing to admit cause I love cameron. Compare the action from T2 to avatar and im not sure what happened... Anyuways just my thoughts.
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And your comparison to CHICAGO doesn't work. Nolan's action scenes are of a certain style, a more classic style, more driven into the movie's own narrative, are there to help tell the story instead of being isolated show pieces that stop the story. Nolan's action scenes are not very common to what is mostly done today, for sure. They hark back to more classic style of action, as done in the 60s, 70s but started to went out of fashion in the 80s foward. And i admit, i like this style just fine. So, it's a style, a distinct style, and not an impression, as you called it. your Chicago comparison was quite poor, i'm sorry to ay. A metaphor doesn't work just because it sounds clever.
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"But how many times do we need to see his opponents subjective viewpoint?"As many times as it takes. The movie is called BATMAN BEGINS for a very good reason. Because Batman is begining, and it's his first impact on the crome world. Savvy? Nolan actually thought this shit through.
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Ok, I can't see what I'm typing, because of the weird delay thing that's happening. If you're gonna tell me to "get real", try reading multiple posts instead of singling out just one. I'm actually very real about it. Or maybe I realise that I don't actually have time, or the ability, to navigate the entire history of storytelling.
I actually don't really care about the source of inspiration. I care about not seeing something original. I live in Japan. Everyone was bombarded with Avatar promotion for months. I went & I had to stand in a line for 6 hours on Christmas day. I didn't mind though, I thought "Wow, this is gonna be special". It wasn't.
I referred to specific movies, because those movies DO show that even the most recent of films are there in the AVATAR story.
With all due respect (sincerely), your own personal knowledge doesn't really apply to what I was talking about. Southafricanguy talked about John Carter of Mars being an inspiration. That's fair enough. You're talking about stories throughout history being an inspiration. That's also fair enough. But that isn't what I mean. I'm talking about too many inspirations & not enough originality. NOT the inspirations themselves. I'm saying a movie like that should be original.All I'm saying is, that I came out of it feeling I'd seen it before, (personal opinion), BUT that it looked nice. I'm sure a million people walked out thinking the same. They don't need to know John Carter. They don't need to know history. BUT, they know if they saw a bunch of nice visuals on top of a story they've already seen. That's not really enough for it to be a great movie. In some ways, it came across as more of a showcase for the tech, than a story. Like, "Tech, CGI first, then story". Now, I'm sure there will be those who think, "how can he criticise the story, when Avatar was so amazing to look at?", but I was hoping for more. Like I said to southafricanguy, you don't need to know John Carter of Mars, nor these age old stories that you speak of. The very fact that we know the story, whether it's an age old story, OR a recent movie, doesn't matter, it could be a recent movie, or it could be inherint in us, it doesn't matter, the very fact that it's familiar, is a waste. I'll end this here because I can't fucking see what I'm writing. I'm sure I could have been more eloquent, but I can't see. So take it however you will.
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I mean, the fact that we have the world's greatest hand-to-hand fighter and they can only show him in quick cuts, close up, in darkness, under strobes and with a shaky camera would never make people doubt his prowess. Or that one no one could compare it to how they used camera and editing trickery to make it look like Gere could dance in CHICAGO. Right. It is only a clever sounding metaphor, and not apt at all.
And saying it is like the 60's and 70's style is completely wrong. Nolan's is very much part of the faux-gritty style that sprung up in the modern era. I mean, compare the fight scenes from TDK to this:
http://tinyurl.com/2d7zmge -
on this..nolan really isnt an action director.odds are he didnt even direct the truck chase in TDK. thats second unit all over it. nolan cutting and cutting is there to hide the shoddiness.
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We have to see the subjective viewpoint of the people he is fighting, instead of maybe seeing how Batman experiences fighting crime for the first time.
Hey, let's show a rookie soldier go into combat for the first time through the eyes of the enemy every scene. Because then we will really know what it is like.
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Mann was inspired by heat for the bank robbery scene which is ironic considering Heat has the greatest set piece in cinema history IMO.. of course..
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Mann was inspired by heat for the bank robbery scene which is ironic considering Heat has the greatest set piece in cinema history IMO.. of course..
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thats a good point..i wouldnt even call the robbery an action scene..watch HEATs bank robbery and thats an acton scene..TDK..not so much
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Ok, now your getting silly....I was citing different action sequences from different films, just because I didn't include the other scenes from TDK doesn't mean I don't consider them action sequences. My friend, your getting very close to acting like the kind of person you and I usually despise. Calm down dude, I am not in any way saying TDK is a bad movie, you should know that by now. But just to appease you, all the scenes you mentioned in your last post to me, with the exception of the Hospital, are pure action sequences, I never said they were not. The hospital is just Joker and Dent having a chat (one of my favorite exchanges in the film BTW...."now were talking") then the Joker leaves and the hospital explodes behind him....nahhhh, not an action sequence, a great scene no doubt, but not an action sequence, but again, just my opinion.
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It was almost cartoonish in tdk the bank robbery scene, I almost expected the money bags too have large dollar signs on them. (and i meant nolan was inspired by mann in my above post)
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Sixies makes a good point, the bank robbery was a great scene, just not a lot of what you would call action, forgot about that. Oh, maybe because it contains one of what I consider to be TDK's biggest flaws....the bus going thru the wall, NO damage whatsoever, that's something a guy like Bay would do, Nolan is way better than that, and that's why it bugs me so much. No school bus could make it through that wall and not be almost smashed to bits. But that bus did, no broken glass, no dents, just a lot of dust. Bad, really bad, because Nolan is above such things, that's why it's so irritating.
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...from Hard Times:
http://tinyurl.com/2367awx
And for comparison, the fight scene in HK & the Night Club from TDK:
http://tinyurl.com/34qxrn9
http://tinyurl.com/2cnqrzg -
My best trolling ever
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http://androidandme.com/2010/07/news/rockem-sockem-augmented-reality-bots-on-android/
Suck on that iPhone. -
your mom tells me that if you drink from my cock, it will make you strong for your beatdown with conti..better do it twice just to be sure. and take some back for her too.
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Cause Joker was really an alien trying to get back to his space ship.
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How you doing man? How is it going?
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Even when you try to mock others all you do is make yourself look stupid.
Serious question, are you like autistic or suffer from Asperger's syndrome or something, because it would explain a lot. -
I'll give you that.Fucker
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Not compared to scenes from the aforementioned films mentioned by both Conti and Rogue respectively.Asi may come off a bit biased but then again there are moments within the film that may not be blatant action scenes,but cerebal action whereas the viewer can gain/feel a great deal of excitment from an "action" scene that may feel lackluster or average.it's what one can take away from what has transpired.Layman's terms: The guy saw different.
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who are twice your size? Or is this an MJ first?
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The Bank RobberyJoker Blowing a HospitalThe Asian Bookie getting burned atop a Mountain of MillionsBats dropping Maroni from 3 stories high.(Shit, didn't see that coming..hadda hurt.)And of course the last 3 minutes leading to the chase.immitaion is the sincerest form of flattery, so if Nolan is gonna copy another director's style for a Comic/Crime Drama, it would go to The Mann.
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"It is only a clever sounding metaphor, and not apt at all"Say that without sarcasm and you got it exactly.Who is Batman? a man at the peark of physical condition that can be humanly achievable. Are you asking that an actor that trained for a few months to act exactly and totally like a person who trained nonstop for 7 years into becoming the best ninja fighter the wold as ever known? There will have to be filmmking trickery going on, because nobody, and i mean, nobody could seel that wholesome. Maybe some athlet who does nothing but train in martial arts day-in/day-out. And he would suck at play the character, specially as Bruce Wayne.One question: are you as harshly about Tim Burton's Batman's fighting prowness as you are to Nolan's movies, or you just focus on nolans movie and nothing else? Because in Burton's movie, Batman gets his ass handled to him by a fat rapper in the belltower scene. That scene is so stupid, i rather it had been shot in shaky-cam so i could had been saved the embaracement.Bale played Batman as an impossible human who has impossible abilities in fighting and sthealt. Filming trickery would be needed. The movie thus portaits Batman from the point of view of the villains, who get hit by somebody almost pre-naturely fast and ablebody. The intendion is not to show he is a Fred Astaire, but that he is twice as more. Physucaklly impossible, you ahve to use clever trickery. Or else what you would gonna do? Speed up the shots and make it all look like a comedy sketch from Benny Hill? Think about it, man!
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"It is only a clever sounding metaphor, and not apt at all"Say that without sarcasm and you got it exactly.Who is Batman? a man at the peark of physical condition that can be humanly achievable. Are you asking that an actor that trained for a few months to act exactly and totally like a person who trained nonstop for 7 years into becoming the best ninja fighter the wold as ever known? There will have to be filmmking trickery going on, because nobody, and i mean, nobody could seel that wholesome. Maybe some athlet who does nothing but train in martial arts day-in/day-out. And he would suck at play the character, specially as Bruce Wayne.One question: are you as harshly about Tim Burton's Batman's fighting prowness as you are to Nolan's movies, or you just focus on nolans movie and nothing else? Because in Burton's movie, Batman gets his ass handled to him by a fat rapper in the belltower scene. That scene is so stupid, i rather it had been shot in shaky-cam so i could had been saved the embaracement.Bale played Batman as an impossible human who has impossible abilities in fighting and sthealt. Filming trickery would be needed. The movie thus portaits Batman from the point of view of the villains, who get hit by somebody almost pre-naturely fast and ablebody. The intendion is not to show he is a Fred Astaire, but that he is twice as more. Physically impossible, you have to use clever trickery. Or else what you would gonna do? Speed up the shots and make it all look like a comedy sketch from Benny Hill? Think about it, man!
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"It is only a clever sounding metaphor, and not apt at all"Say that without sarcasm and you got it exactly.Who is Batman? a man at the peark of physical condition that can be humanly achievable. Are you asking that an actor that trained for a few months to act exactly and totally like a person who trained nonstop for 7 years into becoming the best ninja fighter the wold as ever known? There will have to be filmmking trickery going on, because nobody, and i mean, nobody could seel that wholesome. Maybe some athlet who does nothing but train in martial arts day-in/day-out. And he would suck at play the character, specially as Bruce Wayne.One question: are you as harshly about Tim Burton's Batman's fighting prowness as you are to Nolan's movies, or you just focus on nolans movie and nothing else? Because in Burton's movie, Batman gets his ass handled to him by a fat rapper in the belltower scene. That scene is so stupid, i rather it had been shot in shaky-cam so i could had been saved the embaracement.Bale played Batman as an impossible human who has impossible abilities in fighting and sthealt. Filming trickery would be needed. The movie thus portaits Batman from the point of view of the villains, who get hit by somebody almost pre-naturely fast and ablebody. The intendion is not to show he is a Fred Astaire, but that he is twice as more. Physically impossible, you have to use clever trickery. Or else what you would gonna do? Speed up the shots and make it all look like a comedy sketch from Benny Hill? Think about it, man!
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Kickin' it Bruce Lee style.
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I'm sorry to say this, but i'm not being any more silly then you are on this, mate. Tit for tat.
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Christopher Nolan did say to the press that his biggest and closest inspiration for THE DARK KNIGHT was Michael Mann's HEAT. Right from the house's mouth. TDK is like a HEAT version of a Batman story. And as far i think, it was a great idea and it worked wonderfully.
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"there are moments within the film that may not be blatant action scenes,but cerebal action whereas the viewer can gain/feel a great deal of excitment from an "action" scene that may feel lackluster or average"You entered into my mind and you understood exactly what i have been trying to say all afternoon. You just said it in shorter words and much better then i could. You got it exactly. For all it's worth, i am extremely impressed. You should be a psychologist, man. I know you are a clever, smart man, but you keep on suprising me. Good job.Did i ever told you that my favorite movie car chase is the one in THX-1138? That my favorite war movie is APOCALYPSE NOW? That my favorite shootout scene is from GHOST IN THE SHELL and HEAT? That my favorite Sf movies are BLADE RUNNER, 2001, GHOST IN THE SHELL and THX-1138?From that, can you be too suprised ifi find the action scenes in TDK perfect and as it should? (and why i'm so tolerant to the point of dedicated defensiveness of those in BATMAN BEGINS?) No suprises there, is there?
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Whatever happened to that DeNiro?
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Smart move by Nolan to adapt Mann's works.That's what set TDK apart from Begins and not to mention that Nolan's take on Bats is far superior than Burton's.(Joel Shumcker doesn't count.)
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I'll never forget the moment when Imagine started playing.
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"DENIRO WAS AT THE TOP OF HIS GAME IN HEAT. Whatever happened to that DeNiro?"Indeed! What the hell happened?One theory i heard is that DeNiro's production company, Tribeca, nearly went bankrupt, so that DeNiro started to get "for the money" jobs to pay off the debts and to bounce back the company. He was also collecting favours so that he could finally put his pet project, THE GOOD SHEPPERD, on the ground.
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Can0't argue with you about THE KILLING FIELDS. Brillant movie. Have you ever seen it in the theater? It's grand! I also had the very good fortune to watch the director's next movie, THE MISSION, in the theater as well, another awesome, brillant movie, with Deniro and Jeremy Irons too at the top of their game. And a very young Liam Neeson.
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"One question: are you as harshly about Tim Burton's Batman's fighting prowness as you are to Nolan's movies, or you just focus on nolans movie and nothing else? Because in Burton's movie, Batman gets his ass handled to him by a fat rapper in the belltower scene. That scene is so stupid, i rather it had been shot in shaky-cam so i could had been saved the embaracement."WTF was Burton thinking? That Belltower scene was one of the biggest letdowns in the damn movie.Just when I was about to see what Bats is really made of (kicking ass all the way up to the tower via his fighting skills/prowess)he gets the shit beat out of him by some "Celebrity Bodygaurd Brotha".I called bullshit right away.Even during Batman returns the fight scenes were laughable.The Dynamite down the fat guys belly was funny, but is way out of Batman's line of thinking.(More akin to The Punisher, however.)Although I like GITS, I'm more of an Appleseed (2004) kinda guy.never seen THX but i heard great things about it.I'm more into Dystopian films when it comes to Sci-Fi be it Omega Man,Road Warrior and of course Escape from NY and Blade Runner.(However The Road was some depressing shit.)I get as much enjoyment from the message,moral and situations as with their action scenes.Thanks for the kind words, but I call it as I see it. And keep as always, keep up the fight and NEVER comprimise your beliefs if you feel it's right.
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Touche my friend, touche. Even when we are at odds, its respectful, that's how TB's should be....not how they are but how they should be.Now shut the fuck up...LOL, kidding my friend, just a joke......DeNiro....I too am one of those who miss the old DeNiro, as much as I like him in the Meet The Parents movies, I long for the DeNiro of old, and for that matter, the Pacino of old...god both of those guys fell off the wagon creatively, it's like they are just in it for the paycheck now, so, so sad.
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Lame, really lame. I actually liked Both of Burton's films overall, but the fight scenes were lame, and I HATED the way they portrayed Gordon, a fat bumbling idiot who depended on Batman for just about everything...in other words, a big pussy...that ain't Commissioner Gordon. Even in Schumaker's films he was the same, if Batman wasn't around crime was out of control, the police were helpless without him....wrong and stupid.
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But I can imagine how powerful it must have been. What a harrowing journey that guy went through. And poor Haing Ngor. He should've gotten a leading actor Oscar. Too bad also he got killed so soon.
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But shitty acting.
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About THX-1138, take my word for all it's worth, but if i were you, i would rather try to track and watch the original version of the movie over the "enchanced" later version that was re-released a few years back. It's not that the movie it changed too radically, it's not, but there's something about the original version that i find much more charming, even if some of the no-budget values occasionally show through. But there is so much invention, and such an unique vision to the movie, that the original version shows through stronger. And whatever you think of George Lucas, about THX you better forget all about it. Forget all about the Lucas you know from SW or even American Graphitti. THX-1138 is George Lucas at his purest, and it's a Lucas you have never seen before. also, and evne though the movie is accused of sterility (which is kinda the fucking point, due to the story it tells), it's also Lucass most openly emotional movie, where he actually pour his heart without second-guessings and filtered with public expectations. THX-1138 is pure Lucas, and you might be for an unexpected suprise. THX-1138 IS Lucas.
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"god both of those guys fell off the wagon creatively, it's like they are just in it for the paycheck now"They are in ojnly for the paycheck now. Probably they think they already have payed their dues and now it's just collecting paychecks as retirment pension plan. Basically they are pulling a Sean Connery (when he was still making movies).Let me say this, though: i was very impressed with THE GOOD SHEPPERD. I know it's fashionable to piss and shit on the movie, but fuck it, i loved it, i really did, it's a one hell of a movie. DeNiro might not be delievering in the acting as he used to, but he is not taking it easy and is not slouching on the directing. Also, if you want to see DeNiro acting good again like he used to, see THE GOOD SHEPPERD. It's telling it took him to direct himself to get another good acting job from him.
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Haing Ngor's death was such a stupid thing! Such a stupid thing!And beleive it, brother, you haven0't truly seen THE KILLING FIELDS until you see it in the big silver screen. The scene when Pran finds hismelf in the middle of The killing Fields is beyond description.What happened to Roland Joffé, anyway? He started his film career making two masterpieces, THE KILLING FIELDS and THE MISSION, made one pretty good very interesting movie called FAT MAN AND LITTLE BOY (also known as SHADOWMAKERS), and afterwards it all has been piss and crap. THe dude in the audio comentary even shows suprise that THE MISISON turned out so well. What the hell happened, he tripped and made two masterpieces in a row? He made two great movies by mistake? What happened to the guy?
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Another thing: you can't get more dyastopian then in THX-1138, unless you rather have it australian or about a boy and his talking dog eating anoying girls for breakfast.
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... is a Tv movie called THREADS, dealing with the closing days until an nuclear attack happens and the consequences of the attack on the people, including a whole generation after. That movie will steal your will to live for a few days. It's also very good.
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I think Michael Keaton was horribly miscast (for all the Keaton fans, do you honestly think he has the build to kick anyone's ass when he is out of costume?), and that the fight scenes were just as horrible.
But I am not comparing it to Burton's - compared to Burton's it is a huge improvement (and you know for a fact I hate BATMAN RETURNS). I am comparing it to all these other great action and fight scenes through movie history. Compared to those, they qualify as adequate or good, not great IMO.
And the things is, Batman wears a costume, so you don't need Bale to be a master of a dozen martial arts. You can get a body double (which once again supports the theory that it is the costume that is fucking up Batman's fighting - he can't move that great in it). But if Bale wants to do his own stunts he better make it look good and real - you are selling us on the idea that Batman is maybe not real but realistic, and if that is the case I want a certain like of plausibility when Batman fights. I want to BELIEVE that someone can do what he does.
I don't think TDK accomplishes that 100%. -
It should be compulsory viewing for idiot Lucas bashers.
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Jul 08, 2010 4:52:17 PM CDT
Batman Returns is a great Burton movie...
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Not so much a great Batman movie. Still, I like it best out of the original Burton/ Schumacher quartet.
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But for me it was just living hell to sit through. I'm a big Penguin fan, and I thought Burton's version was a travesty. That is one of the reasons I hope Nolan uses Penguin for the next movie - undo the damage that Burton (and the knuckleheads who did Penguins "Secret Origin" in 1981) have wrought, and take him back to his awesome roots.
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OK, TDK doesn't accomplishes it 100%, it accomplishes it 95%, which is 85% more then most crap out there.
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And i'm glad it's Bale inside the costume doing the Batman action stuff, and not a stunt double/fighting martial arts expert. The difference would show, evne if subtle, would be enough and too much, we would evnetually pick it up on it. So, again, i abide fully to Nolan's choices, and i'm all the better for it.
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I counted more then just two.
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For some of the scenes? The guy is like a world Ju-Jitsu champion or something (but not BJJ).
I will say this Asi, every Nolan Batman movie has gotten better. I am not a fan of BB and I like TDK. I have a personal theory that a lot of the stuff he had to overcome was put in there by Goyer's original script (he can't just throw out everything when he gets to TDK - he has to keep some continuity or it would great even greater problems).
WIth that in mind, I am really hoping they improve the Batsuit again. The one in TDK was better than the one in BB, so hopefully the next one will be even better yet and give Bale and his body double more maneuverability.
After that, work on the Bat-voice. It doesn't accomplish what they want it to accomplish. -
I think you are wrong on the Bat-voice, it does accomplsih quite well what it sets to do. I wouldn't want it any different.>br>And yes, Bale as stunt doubles, and much to their changrin, Bale keeps doing the most spectacular stuff hismelf, both fights and falls. The scene when Batman jumps from the building in HK? Bale was actually there in the heights of the building for real. Then he did the real jump on the green screen set. The stunts just do second unit stuff that are not even the best, coolest stuff seen in the movie. And nolan directs himself the second unit stuff. In fact, there are no second units in Nolan's movies.I took from your post that you blame Goyer for everything that's negative about Nolan's batman movies. While a bit extreme, i understand what you mean. And i love BATMAN BEGINS. So there.
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Me and ol' Cunti have going back and forth on the ol' facebook. So I post a recent pic of me on the profile, so cunti knows who's going to be beating him down. (http://tinyurl.com/2fnlaqr)
Cunti does the same with this photo here:(http://tinyurl.com/3ycm2kw) Looks a bit fake to me, it might be his father. Me being a bit curious, I start to browse through his long list of (16) friends and notice that they are all pretty young looking...like really young. So I start to think to myself "this guy is either lying or he's a pedophile". Look up "Conti Nenta Lop" on facebook so you can see the tough crowd that this 6'3" 220 strongman hangs with (especially that Jordan Adams kid, scary guy). It's sad enough to make you cry. I'm callin' your bluff bitch. I'm done with you, but I'm still going to San Diego, you can come stalk me if ya want. And I'm still the meanest troll on AICN! -
of Cobra--Kai and Continentalop (http://tinyurl.com/2vhoxc6 )
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the 100 or so other questions that myself and those who feel like me have posed over the last however many years of fan-wanking bullshit we've had to endure about that overhyped, plot-hole-riddled, overly-expository, self-serious, up-its-own-ass collection of pages, we'd be golden. "Brilliant". Give me a break, fella. "Competent" at best. Nolan's direction and the performances of Ledger and Oldman are the only things that make TDK remotely good. And it IS good. But brilliant it ain't. Not even close.
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I hit that shit out the park!
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You stepped on shit in the park?
I wondered why you stank. So sad too bad bye bye. -
Is your life insurance paid up?
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MJ fucked some shit out in the park? To each their own, I suppose.
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I hope so, because there really hasn't been much. I'm one of those mentioned minorities that hasn't been overwhelmed by Nolan's work. Both of his Batman films are good films(especially the 2nd), but neither felt much like Batman to me. The Prestige is a kind of kitschy romp that can't seem to decide if it wants to be theoretical sci-fi or a full-blown fantasy movie. Insomnia bored me. Yet I am incredibly, incredibly excited about Inception. The cast is incredible, the plot is extremely intriguing, and if there's one element of Nolan's game that has really impressed me across his resume, its his handling of heist elements. I've gone to pretty far extents to keep the plot details as vague as possible so I'll remain surprised, but its getting harder by the day. can't wait until opening night.
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Jul 08, 2010 7:41:33 PM CDT
Breast Milk, why haven't you thrown yourself off
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
a bridge yet? Avatar was the no.1 sci fi movie of last year. 4th? You think Star Trek was better? Star Trek was shit, buddy, as was Sherlock Holmes. No wonder you liked them - moronic movies made for idiots like you. Lap it up, cunt. You're getting stupider by the day.
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Jul 08, 2010 7:43:40 PM CDT
Would you like another lesson in how RT works, cunt?
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Avatar was MUCH better received than Jar Jar Trek.A-V-A-T-A-R
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Jul 08, 2010 7:46:15 PM CDT
Breast Milk, only the 3rd biggest troll on AICN
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
After Trannyformers Apologist and MJ's Cold Corpse. Hahahahah! You can't even get that right. I give you a 'rotten' rating of 43%! You need to sharpen your technique.
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This fucking douchebag keeps talking shit and now is cyber-stalking me like Glenn Fucking Close from Fatal Attraction. Can you believe it? Plus, he actually post people's real names - people who have nothing to do with this. Why? Because he is a tool.
Also he doubts the photo he has is of me. Hmm, why is that dwarf? Wishful thinking on your part.
Now you can talk shit and pose to make yourself look tough and big (you claim to be 5'9" and 190lbs but I doubt you are even that tall pipsqueek - those Suicide girls towered over you) but it doesn't convince me at all. Classic little man disease. And I could care less what you say or do except when you fucking act like a bitch and stalk me and publish people's names, you just go to prove how fucking pathetic you really are.
You got my email address. Contact me when you "really" want to do this. But I'm not going to hold my breath, midget.
I'm done here. -
http://tinyurl.com/26fc96a
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My thick, manly muscles are made of pure meat & my cock is obviously huge. I can also run faster than you, piss higher & I rescue burning children on weekends. Sometimes they don't survive, because I only ever use two fingers to lift them out of their firey obscurity. But that, my tiny worshippers, is the law of the jungle. & I am the king of the jungle.
Shut the fuck up. -
Wear a shirt labeled SECURITY when you go to comic con and then you will have carte Blanche on MJ. When people question you for dragging a douche prick out by his pudenda and stomping him into sod, just tell them he bumrushed Taylor lautner
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you'll only be able to read SEC on his tiny frame. Six Demon...eat a bag of dicks. Conti...you'll be eating my fist.
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Creepy. Not to mention illegal?
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Unless you don't think stalking a guy is totally gay.
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Well the cat's outta the bag now
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Infowars or PrisonPlanet
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Find out at infoaboutwhatreallyhappensinthe prisonshowers.war.com!!
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It put a break in my sarcasm. Oh well. I should have said Interior Decorator anyway. I accept my failure. Moving swiftly on..
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google soulciti, click FOR REEL. Still some left.
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I have nothing to say to you. I mean, really, what you expect me to do? To teach you to love chocolate or Port Wine? If TDK disatisfies you so much, maybe you would prefer Jar Jar Abrams's STINO instead, i don't know, maybe that's what you call brillant? If so, you can have it, i rather have a proper brillant movie to call brillant: THE DARK KNIGHT.
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AVATAR could had been a 3 hours long movie about the Na'vi shitting in the woods and it would still be a much, much better movie then JAR JAR TREK.
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First, I see what you did there. "Teach you". Thanks, no, I can form my own opinions perfectly well, professor. Or at least that's what my MFA in Film (Screenwriting) implies. But kudos for the attempt at condescension. It was about as subtle as every metaphor in TDK. How was my condescension? I don't normally like to pull out the terminal degree chestnut, but I gotta get *some* value back for the $100k in student loan debt. Oh, I see what you did there, too, with the calling up Star Trek. I never mentioned that movie, but if you need to put words in my mouth to make your point, then by all means, Mr. Dunham, I'm your Achmed the Undead Terrorist (who is *also* as subtle as TDK). (Now watch Asimov use my passing knowledge of Jeff Dunham to prove I have no taste, despite the obvious sarcasm). And it's a poor argument to imply that just because I disagree with you about the script merits of TDK my taste is universally shite. Not that I think you're interested in a proper argument. You know, opinions aren't like The Candyman. If you say "brilliant" three times in a row that doesn't make it true. Although I think you're probably just baiting me with that bullshit, I'll bite. What do I call brilliant? I'll up the ante. What do I consider a brilliant comic book movie? Donner's Superman is almost a no-brainer and it would be limp-dick of me to trot it out. But yes, that's brilliant. I'll go with Spiderman 2. Brilliant comic book sequel. Now if you'd like to outline some of the flaws in that script the way many of us have outlined some of the flaws in TDK, feel free. I'll even listen without condescending, overblown exasperation.
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You're a fag who should suck Scarlett Johannson's husband's Green Lantern cockring. (It's tough maintaining the integrity of an AICN talback with geniuses like Scat_Joke_Fett1138 and ABE_VIGODA_YODA and Actress_Rapefantasy around.)
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Flatery will take you nowhere.
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I knew you would say that. It figures.
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Was up brother....Has Big Mommas House 3 withered on the vine? Let's hope so, if not I will publicly puke in front of the box office. Support me in this perhaps we'll start a nationwide trend and force all the dumb asses to literally wade through vomit in order to buy tickets to all the shit Hollywood is bending us over with.
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They are equals, you silly boy. None should bow to the other. Stop spewing nonsense.
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While 2010 is not as terrible as 2009 was, it's still very uninspiring and makes one contemplete the notion of giving up on movie geekdom, because the constant assault of mediocrity. One can't just live on past oldies goldies, one needs new good stuff. and there isn't much to saciate. I just hope INCEPTION might quench my parched dried movie taste for a good while.
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WATCHMEN, TRASHFORMERS 2, JAR JAR TREK, GI JOE, WOLVERINE, to name a few. Any one of those alone would make 2010 a fine year at the movie by comparison. Next, i'll tell you that water is wet, to go with the theme of stating the extremely obvious.
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That would be sister.
But yes, I am psyched to see Inception. -
you only like shitty movies, anyway. the shittier, the merrier. the point of my previous post would completly go over your head. might as well be talking about quantum physics to you.
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This year is the pits
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You wanna be my date? My country or yours?
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No no, last year was the deep pits. This year is just milquetoast mediocre.
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Liked Watchmen and Star Trek but yea I forgot those other puss sores. 09 was a real stinker hopefully 10 can be salvaged (comapred to)
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I respect your point of view, but I have to say I find the action scenes in TDK and BB very underdeveloped. However, they aren't the real problem with these films. Whereas, BB was a competent (but somewhat boring) re-boot of the franchise, TDK was a complete mess: a crazy attempt to squeeze two films into one with the result that you got a sort of one-and-a-half movies hybrid. Terrible.Another big problem is that Nolan actively seeks to achieve dullness and blandness - it's his stylistic thing. Appeals to some people, like yourself; personally, I can't stand it. Michael Mann's HEAT is one of the dullest, overrated movies I've ever seen - and Mann achieved the amazing feat of extracting mind-numbingly boring performances from De Niro and Pacino. In copying Mann, Nolan has achieved the same dullness in TDK.And don't get me started on the 'sonar mobile phones' that held up the movie for a good twenty minutes purely for the sake of daft product placement.
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I respectfully disagree with everything you said. By the way, Nolan made his Batman movies as science fiction movies (he said so to the press more then once right form the first movie start). that knowlwdge might quell a bit your problem with the cell phone sonar business. And right from the start of the Batmsan stories in the 1930s, Batman used lots of guizmos. For example, at the start of the comic, Batman used a contraption that made him fly like a bat, and by that i mean literally fly, and not the gliding he does in Nolan's movies. Batman's storeis so far have made Batman use far more outlandish gadgets then what's seen in Nolan's movies, which have a more "off the shelf" nature to them. Until now, the only reason presented for Batman's gadgets was "because he's filthy rich". Nolan's movies made efforts to provide plausible explanations to why he has the stuff he has.
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..Ironman 2. Yeah? On what planet?
Then again our friend BSB hated IM2 but raved over GIJ.To each His/Her own.Shit, I liked Watchmen for the most part but didnt care for the stupid Owl Ship sex scene. (That Fucking hack Orci was prolly behind that idea when doing the script polish.) -
"Liked" is certianly not the word i wpould use to describe my feelings for Watchmen and JarJar Trek. Loath, disgust and despair would be more accurate.
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You are a strange man. and you are yet to learn the difference between absolute stinker to just mediocre. But then again, you think TRASHFORMERS 2 is a good movie, which means nobody will take your opinions seriously.
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The sex scene exists in the comic. The problem with that scene is how it was presented in the movie. And the "brillant" idea of using the song "Hallelulia" made the whole theater eript in laughter when i saw the movie. That is just one example of the constant misguideness that went in making WATCHMEN. Thee only scene that actually worked was Doc Manhanthan in Mars because it was completly copied from the comic, and they used a kick-ass Philip Glass music. It's quality by osmosis, if you will.
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TRASHFORMERS 1 was so fucking shitty, only TRASHFORMERS 2 was worst. Keep proving your opinion on movies matters little, brother.
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Yeah, I'm aware of the Sex scene from Moore's classic Graphic Novel, but of course the Hajelulia song accompanied by the Archemedis shooting flames (symbolic to Nite Owl's blowing his load) was the very low point of the film. I know purists loathe the film, but it could have been far worse had other directors helmed the project. Can you imagine PWSA or Mikey Bay responsible for Watchmen?BTW what do you think of JJ Abrams upcoming TV Series? I think it's called Undercover.I give it three weeks before they pull it off the air.
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Jul 09, 2010 9:46:09 AM CDT
Give me the TF animated Movie over Bay's "abominations" anyday.
by stalkeye
Fucking Autobots sneaking around Sam's House? That's Mikey's idea of "Robots in Disquise"?I also hold that idiot Spielberg responsible for letting shit like that go by without creative control input.Fucking Steven hasnt been on top of his game since The Minority Report.
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But again, what you see as strengths or qualities, I see as serious problems. The last thing I want is an explanation as to how the 'technology' works. Gadgets are not story. In fact there's nothing more off-putting than the movie turning into an infomercial for gadgets, real or imagined - which is what Nolan's Batman movies do. I have never experienced a 'sub-plot' as idiotic, as pointless, as visually uninteresting as the 'sonar mobile phones'. Even the Bond movies - full of product placement and gadgets as they are - don't turn the gadgets into THE STORY. The gadgets perform their function - quickly - and then THEY'RE DONE. We don't get a lecture on the inner workings and the ethical implications of an ejector seat, or a laser-beam watch, for chrissakes.Can't agree with you: by any but the loosest, laziest, most catch-all definition, Nolan's Batman movies are NOT science fiction - in style, themes, tone, cinematic genre - you name it. If TDK is science fiction, then so is HEAT. So is OCEAN'S 11. So is LA CONFIDENTIAL. So is FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE. So is TOY STORY. They all feature gadgets of one kind or another. To be fair to the otherwise-dreadful HEAT, at least it doesn't add twenty minutes to the run-time with an absurd technology-masturbation sequence involving a mobile phone.But again, it's down to taste. Nolan is interested in creating a cold, detached, bland and lifeless film, involving cold, detached technology and a robot-like main character (Oh - maybe it is SF after all! I see what you mean. But then Nolan should reveal at the end that all the characters are in fact robots - that would explain the whole thing, and I would have no argument). But I'd prefer a movie that had a well thought-out plot, engaging characters and that feels like it's been directed by a human being, not a computer. That's just me.
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Prove it. Though i have to say, a bucket of shit is better then JAR JAR TREK.
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Frankly, i don't give a fuck if Abrams has some new TV show polluting the airwaves. As if FRINGE wasn't punishement enough!
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I do like the fact that the gadgets are part of the story, instead of just being deux ex machinas that the hero poops up to help advance the plot. I rate that as a good thing.I don't rate Nolan's movies as cold. More cerebral then the average, yes, and thank goodness for that. I'm tired of the typical emotion-throns that the average movies are. Thank Nolan for the much needed respiste.TDK is a SF movie inspired by HEAT. Why should that be incompatible? Why can't a SF movie be inspired by a movie from another genre? The great beauty of SF is that it can incorporate anything from other genres. STAR WARS for instance, was majorly inspired by THE HIDEN FORTRESS, a samurai movie. Lucas has always been very open about that. BLADE RUNNER is a noir film set in the future. This is what's awesome about SF, the it allows mixtures of other genres. And this is what TDK did, it took major inspiration from and that was a good thing. It was an inspired clever choice made by Nolan.I'm sorry friend but it seems i have very little to agree with you on this subject. Still doesn't mean we can't have a beer together, does it?
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Now thayt's an interesting concept I remember a graphic novel from the early 90s, compeltly drawn in computer, in which the joker was a computer virus. It was a cyberpunk futuristic Batman story.
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For a minute I was confused. "But I was sarcastic as shit. How is any of that flattery?" And then I remembered the follow-up. Speaking of which, a lady friend of mine let me know that IF Ryan Reynolds DID have a Green Lantern cockring, that would make him all the hotter. That was... weird.
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We can have a beer and moan about the awfulness of Watchmen - it seems we share the same opinion on that one at least.
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Dude, that's weird indeed!
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Alright then! I knew there was something about you that was worth being friendly about. Good to know we share something in common. Man, did WATCHMEN sucked! Of all the talented filmmakers outthere, and they gave it to Zack The Hack Snyder? Unbelievable!
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Regardless what you may think of his previous works, I actually likked DOTD, 300 and yes, for the most part Watchmen.He's no Verhooven and definately no John Carpenter, but for a Director of Intellectual properties based films, I have yet to be disappointed. I doubt if even Singer could have done a better job with Watchmen and out of all the hacks like McG,PWSA,Bay,Sommers,et al I give Snyder props for at least not straying too far from the source material like certain other filmakers. (*cough*Superman Returns*cough*) That's just my opinion anyways.
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Jul 09, 2010 3:38:24 PM CDT
Two-face could easily return in the next batman movie
by spectrebeeyatch
The film made us think Harvey was dead but he could easily have survived and they faked his death and have put him in a hospital to treat him. He escapes... Blah blah... His return could easily happen.
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He said so at the UK premier of Inception. Please for the love of 007 MGM get your head out of your ass and make this happen. Chris Nolan and Daniel Craig = perfect 007 film.
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Yes, please!
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I'm an admirer of the comic, but the movie was DOA, in my opinion. I don't personally dislike Snyder - and I think he made a serious attempt to turn Watchmen into a movie, but.... there were just too many poor choices, and a lot of effort that didn't pay off. The soundtrack was awful - incredibly clumsy and misconceived, and as for giving Batman's "voice" to Rorshach.... big mistake. There were too many things wrong with the movie to list here.Overall, for Snyder's adaptation to work as a movie in its own right, it needed to be LESS faithful to the comic. Snyder needed a ruthless editor on this one. I think by cutting out 40 minutes or so, and focussing entirely on Rorsharch's story, it might have worked better - but we'll never know.
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Don't see that at all, it just seems like a convenient way to justify the whole sonar cell phone thing. I do not see elements of science fiction in Batman.....damn Asimov, you are really reaching my friend. Again, not to say anything to disparage TDK, I love the film, it's tops among crime drama, but sci-fi dude? Come on!
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So when are you coming to the US to have a beer?
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-------------- http://www.jordaner.com -----------
a leading worldwide w holesaler company (or ucan say organization). We supply more than 100 thousand high-quality merchandise and famous brand name products all at wholesale prices. -
Called it.
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anyway my thoughts:
1.Nolan as the next Kubrick? haha. and i thought that the nerds considering TDK a better movie than Godfather was a bad joke already.
Nolan is not the next Kubrick and he is never going to be.Besides Kubrick might be a movie god but he is flawed.Like some others already said his movies tend to be too intellectual while lacking emotions thus becoming frequently boring.Then again Nolan's movies do tend to be too intellectual rather than emotional,so if the comparison is validated through the boredom of the movies of both creators,then ok be my guest.
But that is not the subject.The real subject is how fucking stupid are some people,who happen to be mostly nerds,who crown a director with a decent and short filmography,as a cinematic genius simply because he made a very successful commercial movie about a guy who lives in a cave and dresses like a bat.
is this how the world has turned into? people who have lost any sense of rational judgment and any kind of good taste? people who label artists and their works based on popularity,commercial success and because their pulpy heroes are supposedly taken seriously from the masses right now?
2.But even more ridiculous from the above,is the fact that people compare Nolan with Cameron.no sorry,its not that.its the reason why those ignorant and stupid people compare Nolan with Cameron.
you see boys and girls Nolan TDK was no2 in the all time domestic BO.that fact alone gave comfort and pride to the nerds that their beloved comic hero had achieved immortality in the movie history as the 2nd most popular movie ever and which also meant,for them,that their 4-color "kiddie" hero was not confined in their inner circle but was finally accepted by the outside audience as serious,adult,well-crafted work of art.which brings us to the godfather/kubrick part in the above paragraphs.
BUT here is where the real fun starts.You see there is a man who happens to be the true king of the movie geekdom.and not only that but he deservedly has proved to be one of the gods of cinema.That guy releases his first movie,after 10 years of absence from film making,and what follows? His movie dethrones TDK from no2 to no3,while achieving phenomenal and universal appeal which overshadows TDK for good and it also establishes 3D projection as the new fashion in movie experience.Nolan personally preferred and wanted to promote the Imax experience (he used it partly in TDK) while he considered 3D as pure unworthy gimmick.but suddenly 3D became the next best thing,Imax promotion halted and he ended up asked a lot in his interviews more about the 3d,rather the Imax.the irony right?
But ofc the nerds who have Nolan as their god,didnt take it very well the fact that their movie had somehow lost its original appeal and approval.it even started to be considered a bit overrated with significant flaws by a lot of people who lost their initial enthusiasm about thepitifulness flick.And how they reacted? with anger and jealousness.they considered Cameron as a threat to their beloved director and his "pop culture domination" and also the obstacle to his desire to make Imax the defacto movie experience.
Thus the comparison between Cameron and Nolan.an unnecessary and completely ridiculous comparison between 2 very talented artists,simply because some idiotic nerds thought that it is their mission to defend their god by smashing and reducing the "opposition" in any way as possible.what the fuck is this shit? such things belong to the kindergarten,not for adults.
3.And lastly some thoughts about Inception.I am pretty sure that the movie is going to be really great and for me at least,DiCaprio has redeemed himself as a serious and good actor.kudos to him.
But yet again Inception is one more good example of the craziness of Nolan's zealots.It is a fact that Nolan's new movie is not that original but a derivation of a lot of other previous artworks we already know about.But ofc that saddens the zealots and they decide yet again to defend his movie,although it has not been yet released.And the irony is not that being derivative is a bad thing,everything is derivative nowadays.the irony is that the argument of derivation has been used against Cameron's avatar.ahaha.
But thats not the only funny thing.There is also a fear that the movie might not be very successful commercially and critically.You see when you crown a director as a movie god in the caliber of Kubrick (haha),because he made the no3 (haha) movie of your favorite super-hero in the domestic BO,and his next movie turns out to be a moderate success well that is a real blow to his credibility as a "movie god".and the zealots know this and the fear that this might be the final,so they have already started to bring out arguments to defend the hypothetical but imminent low performance of their god's new film.jesus h christ.
and what is this argument? that his film is too intellectual for the average movie goer.and that will make him not to understand the film,and since he wont understand it he will think that the movie is bad (instead of admitting that he is plain stupid which is the usual case) and after leaving the theater,he is not going to suggest to his friends/relatives to go and watch the film.and this thing will create a bad word of mouth which will eventually kill the movie's BO perfomance.
thats right ladies and gentlemen.Nolan's hardcore fans are so fucking desperate that they will try even such stupid arguments to defend their master and his title as "god of geeks".and all that for what? for a goddamn guy who lives in a cave and dresses in a bat suit.jesus.
thats all. -
Memento was brilliant,Insomnia was mediocre and inferior to the original,Prestige was fine and then what? he makes two Batman movies? two comic super-hero movies,which were very good.and then what? how exactly those films consist a brilliant career? i am curious to know how.
unless ofc you zealots have the nerve to believe that TDK is comparable with 2001 or Shining (since you compare him with Kubrick) and of the same artistic value!!
i dont doubt that Nolan is brilliant and he will give us more great movies in the future,but right now allow me to laugh with the ignorant kids who worship him as a God because he made an overrated Batman flick. -
Christopher Nolan is the next Christopher Nolan. Chtistopher Nolan is his own man, unmistakenly for anybody else. He has his own name to make aclaim for himself. And that is great, marvelous and awesome already. Christopher Nolan IS Christopher Nolan.
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Jul 11, 2010 4:40:41 PM CDT
KilliK, it is not exageration to call Nolan's career brillant
by asimovlives
That is saying it as it is. When your "worst" movie is something like INSOMNIA, you are brillant, no two ways about it. Deal with it.
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Not many things would give me more pleasure then to have a beer and have a nice geek chat with you. Sadly, finances ar enot too brillant. Can't even fucking buy a new car for the near future, or go so some simple not too far away vacations. One has to stretch the cash even for the simplest pleasures. One of the reasons why i get so pissed of at watching bad movies, i feel like they are mocking my spending of my hard won money. To pay and feel like you have been called stupid to your face and conned is not the most pleasant experience one can have. Unless if you are a Mickey Bay or Jar Jar Abrams's fan, then that shit cames with the territory.
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Contempt is the exact description i have for Zack Snyder. I did liked his first movie (was i played!), but since 300 foward, the man has been nothing but a dumb ass filmmakers of retard beyond description bullshit movies. And don't even get me started on that 300 fucking abortion piece of horrible despicable fucking shit! As for WATCHMEN, that is hat an atempt at making a smart movie looks like when made by a dumb stupid ignorant illiterate fucking ass.
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Nolan said himself that the approach he did for making his Batman movie,s specially BATMAN BEGINS, was to make them as science fiction films. Right from thte horse's mouth. He did them as SF movies. That's how it is. With TDK, he added a lot of HEAT-like noir, as he would.
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This looks great, I hope the movie is half as evocative as the trailer. I'm glad Roland Emmerich didn't get his hands on this one.
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that their most successful, most critically acclaimed Batman film, which is the #11 top film of all time at IMDB... wasn't a good movie. Good luck convincing them that a movie that has been repeatedly called "The Godfather" of comic book movies was deeply flawed. I'm sure they're real concerned with what some dude on a talkback thinks. Talkbackers are the most critical, nitpicky film crowd you'll ever find... and most people here concede that Nolan is a brilliant filmmaker. But good luck convincing Warner Bros. he's not, and that one of the most beloved comic book films of all time is actually shit. Maybe they'll hear your mousy voice over the roar of a satisfied crowd begging for an encore.
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"One of the reasons why i get so pissed of at watching bad movies, i feel like they are mocking my spending of my hard won money." Thanks for putting into words exactly how I feel about bad movies. I've had that feeling too many times this year, unfortunately.
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This is the favored argument of the few Dark Knight detractors out there... I suspect because they have little else to go on, and much like the invisible rabbit on my shoulder, there's no way to disprove it. Yet they conveniently ignore the fact that many movies featuring a recently deceased actor have received poor reviews.
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Asimovlives, you are not using your intelligence here. TDK isn't remotely a science fiction movie. It's in the superhero genre - or comic book genre if you prefer. Science Fiction movies are completely different in what they're trying to achieve.Don't base your opinion of a movie on what the director says about it - believe it or not, you are in a better position to judge the movie's aims than the director.The director is just too close and has spent way too much time pouring over hundreds of hours of footage to be objective - to the point where they usually don't have a notion what their film is about any more. Want to hear some other comments famous directors have made about their own movies? Here's a sample:Peter Jackson: "Above all, I'm going to avoid Hollywood schmaltz and sentimentality in my Lord Of The Rings adaptations."Ahem, the last twenty minutes of Return Of The King consists of everyone crying in vomit-inducing slow-motion. Frodo and Sam frequently gaze into each others' eyes and/or make tearful, sentimental speeches. As does nearly everyone else in the trilogy.Woody Allen claims Match Point is his greatest film. Not Manhattan, not Annie Hall, not Broadway Danny Rose, not Play it Again Sam etc etcGeorge Lucas, famously thinks The Empire Strikes Back was a huge failure as a movie and is baffled and offended that people actually see it as the best of all the SW movies.Zak Snyder: "watchmen will be a lot like Taxi Driver." Ha! You wish!Steven Spielberg: "There will be virtually no CGI in Indy 4". I think what he meant to say was, "there will be virtually NOTHING BUT CGI in Indy 4And on, and on, and on.... Don't rely on a director to tell you about their movie. Use your own intelligence and common sense for that.
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A career is brilliant when it is consisted of movies like Godfellas,Taxi Driver,Raging Bull or 2001,Dr Strangelove,Shining or Jaws,Schindler's List,Private Ryan or Godfather,Apocalypse Now.But it is not brilliant when you half career is consisted of a crappy remake and 2 comic super-hero movies ffs.
I understand that we live in the age where ignorance prevails and the quality standards have become very low but even for a very talented artist with one of the most commercially succesful films ever like Nolan, it is too fucking early to call his career brilliant.
Asi for a guy who rightfully hates JJ's ST,i expected a more sensible approach from your part towards Nolan.but i guess nobody can beat his inner fanboy.
and another thing: Nolan got his chance with a mainstream property and after succeeding now he can make the movies he want like Inception.Unfortunately Aronofsky,whom i consider a very superior director than Nolan,this chance has not yet come.and its a damn shame. -
sorry about that.i just watched a Futurama episode which is titled like that.obviously i meant goodfellas.
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sorry about that.i just watched a Futurama episode which is titled like that.obviously i meant goodfellas.
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Jul 12, 2010 5:33:03 AM CDT
no MattmanReturns an actor death's wont bring positive reviews
by killik
for a film,but as sure as hell it will bring people to the cinemas.Its pretty standard that half of TDK's commercial success is based on Ledger's death.Thats why i am very interested to see how Batman3 will perform.I bet it will under-perform compared to TDK,unless ofc some other actor dies before the premiere of the film.ha.
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Roland Emmerich would never have it. This film is totally Nolan's baby, he wrote, he produced ot (with his wife Ema Thomas) and he directed it. INCEPTTION is Nolan's movie wholesome.
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although i think Nolan might confused pulp fiction with sci fiction and used the wrong words to describe his film.TDK is more like a modern pulpy crime drama rather than a scifi or comic super-hero movie.
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The death of Heath Ledger certainly didn't made THE IMAGINARIUM OF DOCTOR PARNASSUS set the box office on fire, did it? You are right, the death of Heath Ledger alone didn't made TDK the box office juggernaut it is. If i have to point out a responsible (and i'll not say it's because the movie is good because there's no correlation to that), then i say it was the brillant marketing campaign. It was brillant, it was magnificent, it was awesome, it was mind-boggling great. But best of all, it sold the movie exactly as it is. It was incredibly honest, which is more then can be said about most advertizement for movies made today which can many times look are misdirection and even like deliberate con. And i think people reacted very positively to the honesty of the marketing. People knew exactly what was the movie they were going to see. Which is not a very common thing, unless the marketing department fucks up and lets slip how truly bad the movie is (PRINCE OF PERSIA, anybody?)
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then why the fuck the studio invested money to finish and release the film?.Did they do it for the seer love for Ledger's talent and because the (crappy) film was good? think again.
But anyway,as i already said lets wait for B3 to see what happens. -
Personally I'm baffled as to why TDK did so well. For some reason it got hyped up to a huge extent. I had read such gushing reviews about it (mainly on this site) that I expected it to be at least good.Instead, what I got was a dull, way-too-long, confused movie that couldn't figure out what it was supposed to be about. Ledger was fine as the Joker - nothing to get excited about, mind you - just a solid professional job in a very easy role. The action scenes were poor and the plot made no sense at all. Just one plot hole followed by another. Scene after scene that had no point to them. Its like everyone gives TDK a pass because it's "only" a Superhero movie and you just let those problems slide. Wrong. First and foremost, it's got to work as a movie. And what the hell was all that stuff about mobile phones that can see through walls? I literally switched off for that. It's like it was a commercial for Nokia or something. I think TDK needed to have at least 40 mins lopped off it.
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but analogically its worldwide success was not similar.as i already pointed out,in the top 10 BO,TDK is no1 domestically but no10 worldwide and maybe even lower.
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I hear ya on the financial front, I am in the same boat, cant afford even a small vacation, can barely afford what I got. Slowly I will get to a comfortable point, but not as quickly as I would like. Divorce did this to me, so I can't really complain, it was my choice, and I'd do it again if I had to, no regretsI understand that Nolan said he was approaching it like a sci-fi movie, all I am saying is I don't see it, in any way as a sci-fi movie. Other than the cell phone thing in TDK, I don't see any elements of either BB or TDK as being sci-fi. Regardless, I still love both films.
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Says you it's a "crappy remake". And Nolan did soemthing very few filmmakers, even talented ones, have dofficulty pulling: bring seriousness and dramatic legitimity to a comic book movie. Go ask Scorsese, Spielberg, Cameron and Coppola what they think of Christopher Nolan and eat humble pie.I despise Jar Jar Abrams because he's a terrible filmmaker who goes by due to his skills as a salesman, and i admire Nolan because he's a true talent. This is not being a fanboy, this is giving each their due.Christopher Nolan and Darren Aronoski are BOTH very good filmmakers. Two goods do not a bad make. A lesson you should had already learned.
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Stop spreading misinformation. TDK made ONE BILLION DOLLARS internationally alone without the USA box office. Foreign box office was more then twice the american box office, a rare thing among comic book movies. You know which movie the box office was exageratedly assumed as a big sucess and yet all together little did more then double the production budget, and the foreign numbers were half the domestic american box office? You know what movie is that? Jar Jar Abrams' FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT TREK, that's what. Get your facts straight.
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insomnia got mixed reviews when it was released and until now the general consensus is that is is an inferior movie to the original one.unless you can prove that it is one of the movies which is always being brought in discussions regarding remakes which are superior to sequels....right.
contrary to you,i dont need Cameron or Coppola to ensure me that Nolan made a very good super-hero movie.but if they think that seriousness and dramatic legitimization came for the first time only in TDK and lack in previous comic movies,then they should do their homework about the super-hero movie genre.what about Superman 1&2? (which i consider the best comic movies ever)
there is a reason that Reeves became a pop culture icon,despite his superman character being the cheesy golden age incarnation.There is a reason that the scene where he flies with Lois Lane in the first movie has become part of the pop culture.Do you know what has remained as iconic from TDK? Joker and Bale's ranting and deep voice.Not Batman's or Dent's mourning for the loss of his ugly girlfriend,not even the "social commentary" sequence with the bomb-trapped ferries.jesus christ even West's batman character is considered more iconic than Bale's.
thats all.btw your last paragraph doesnt make any sense at all regarding to what i wrote about Aronofsky.
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I do see the Sf elements in TDK, it's clear for me why Nolan claims such. It's subtle, and it's more about mood and a certain type of presentation. You know there are SF movies that go for a more sutble approach to their depiction of their wrold, sometimes it's just small details and a slightly different mood. The forthcoming NEVER LET ME GO is one such. And then there is this other thing: all moves which are heavy in the use of gadgets, specially on technology that is still speculative or not yet current use, are SF. The studio marketing departments, fearful that for audiences SF is only STAR WARS or TERMINATOR, they created such nonsense labels as "techno-thriller", which is bullshit, it's just a fancy way to say something is SF without calling it SF. Nonsense, really. Thus, Nolan's BATMAN movies are SF movies. It's a combination of different elements. I do understand Nolan quite clearly when he says his movies were made as SF. It's there.
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check the all-time worlwide records in boxofficemojo.com http://bit.ly/a4g3aX
first fact about TDK:
WORLDWIDE: $1,001.9 100%
DOMESTIC: $533.3 53.2%
OVERSEES: $468.6 46.8%
second fact:
TDK is no3 in the domestic top ten,no10 in the oversees top ten BUT SM3 surpasses TDK in the oversees grosses since its grosses are $554.3 62.2% of its total grosses:
you were fucking saying my good zealot?
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....is the mobile phones bit and how annoying it was. The whole movie seems to have been deliberately filmed in a way to make it forgettable. No atmosphere whatsoever. I actually prefer Watchmen, rubbish though it is, to TDK - at least it was trying to have a moody, Blade Runner-ish atmosphere.The only thing I remember from Batman Begins is this (or something like it):FEAR is there to be FEARED and that's what makes the FEARFUL people FEAR the FEAR. So to know FEAR, you must become FEAR AND FEAR FEAR itself in order to be FEARED by those who know no FEAR and in this way FEAR will become a weapon and you will have nothing to FEAR but FEAR itself.So, I got the idea that the movie had something to do with Fear. The reason I got that idea is that the movie hammered it into me OVER AND OVER. Because I am too stupid to pick up on that theme by hearing it once, twice, or even half-a-dozen times. I have to be beaten to death with it. And it's the only thing I remember about that movie.Insomnia should have the words "Cure for" inserted before its title. Then I would have no complaint against it.
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Didn't make any sense to you because you don't want it to make sense. Nolan and Aronoski are both very good filmmakers. Got it now? Any self-respecting movie geek knows this. Keep it this way and you will have your geek credentials revoked.
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...not ever. Already demonstrated that Nolan very likely doesn't know what he's talking about - if he actually said it.
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considered scifi.i am not joking,its an opinion that i have discussed with a few people,who consider that super-hero movies and james bond belong to the scifi genre.on the other hand there are people who DONT consider star trek scifi.in other words,its one of those cases where the quote "opinions are like assholes" comes in.
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what the fuck does this have to do with what i wrote about Aronofski? you do realize that my post was not at all about Nolan vs Aronofski?
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Getting desperate? If i'm zealot, i'm about the good filmmakers. You never heard me talk about Stanley Kubrick. This is not zealatry, silly boy, this is having passion for the subject of cinema, and showing my due admiration and respect for the proper good filmmakers.
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you talk more about a film maker because he made your favorite superhero into a movie,rather than talk about a film maker of Kubrick's caliber.which proves the point of my first post.anyway.
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Again, I understand what you are saying, I understand what Nolan said, all I am saying is i don't look at Nolan's Batman films and think Sci-fi, that's all, thats not to disparage Nolan or the films in any way, all I am saying is I see them differently, that's all.I totally see the different elements in both films, but I just don't see the sci-fi one, except with the whole cell phone/sonar bit, THAT is definitely sci-fi. Apart from that one element, perhaps you could enlighten me as to the other sci-fi aspects of the films because like I said, I don't see them.
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according to the logic of the fans....
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"and another thing: Nolan got his chance with a mainstream property and after succeeding now he can make the movies he want like Inception.Unfortunately Aronofsky,whom i consider a very superior director than Nolan,this chance has not yet come.and its a damn shame."No, not a Nolan Vs Aronoski thing at all from you, nooo seeree!! You didn't even named both as opposing figures in your paragraph at all, no sir!! Silly boy!
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I don't see that as a Nolan vs. Aronofsky, all Killik was saying was that Aronofsky should be given the same opportunities as Nolan.Can't say I disagree considering the success and acclaim of The Wrestler. Aronofsky should be given a mainstream property to put his mark on. Hollywood rewards lesser film makers with more, so why not reward the good ones?
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The thing is, SF is a very flexible genre, the most flexible there is, and there's many SF elements in movies which most already give for granted today. The classic case is the James Bond movies, where most of them are actually SF movies, of half-Sf movies due to the outlandishness of the gadgets he uses and the secret bases the villains have. That is all SF tropes and stuff. Another example is the more techno stories of Tom Clancy, namely THE HUNT OFR THE RED OCTOBER and THE CARDINAL OF THE KREMLIN. They can rename them all they want, but those are Sf stories. SF is more then just Star Wars, time travel, Doctor Who and alien invasions.And i'm very sorry for your current situation. I might be in a better situation then you, i do still have a job. I live alright, but it's not great, if you know what i mean. I still spend every day thinking the day tomorrow, i have to plan ahead every day, every week, every month, year by year. I can't pull a spur of the moment thing, i can't jump and buy a car that caught my imediate fancy. I live in dread of falling into bank loan debts, because i would be dependent on those if i buy a new car, which means another load to add to the house. it's a nightmare. I can't go on a spur of the moment vacations because i need to plan the expenses one or two years ahead. I have to prioritise, do i go on vacations or do i save for the car? The car i own is still in good working conditions, it's an Honda Civic ESi Coupé (made in USA, by the way), but it's a 1995 car, it's 15 years old, any expenses i have with it now is money wasted, i probably can't even use it to cut the price on the new car. I need to do some repairs to it, and i ask myself, is it worth it? I go to a supermarket and i have to think twice if i buy a 5 dolalrs bottle of wine this month, if it's a too much spenditure for an occasional stravaganza. It's always, always, always thinking about the money. And this is why bullshit crap Mickey Bay-ass or Jar Jar Abrams made movies pisses me off so much, because i payed 6 fucking euros to watch a bad product. People rightly complain far more for far less on other things they get defficient after purchase. And if this is truth for all else, it's also true for the fucking movies too. It's not just the insult of watching a movie made by fucking rich people who make movies with the presumption that audiences have the intelligence of babbons, movies made by silver spooned fucks, movies made by career makers instead of product makers, and offered in over-charged prices. Screw this shit, really. It's insulting.
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For no other reason than the fact that it takes place is a made up city called Gotham.
That firmly plants it in an alternate timeline, which firmly plants it in sci-fi. -
Aronoski was once given a golden oportunit,y the same given to Nolan. He was once given the job to make the new Batman movie. And the script that Aronoski co-created was so crazy, so weird, so fucked up, so bugnuts the studio didn't even knew how to deal with it and Aronoski. It was one of those -INO cases, you know what i mean? Of Batman only had the names of the characters and nothing else. I'm no studio appologist, and i have great admiration for Aronoski, but in this case, he was just wrong. The studio's appreentions were completly justified. Aronoski's version culd work for a "What If" Graphic Novel with a very limited run, but as a blockbuster it would had been creative, career and financial suicide for all involved. Thanks to the Aronoski debacle, things got so bad and desperate for WB, they decided to do open calls for filmmakers to come there and make pitches for Batman. This was unheard of. Studios are very protective of their properties, they do their developement inside, under their complete control, and they call only who they want. On Batman's case, they did open calls to get original ideas from outside people. That's how desperate WB was. And Nolan's pitch was the best, the one they chose over hundreds others. So, to use common parleur, Aronoski had it and he blew it. Still, from that be bounced back and resurected his THE FOUNTAIN project and made it, so, there was a happy ending both for Aronoski and Batman.
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Good call.
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Jul 12, 2010 12:30:46 PM CDT
KilliK, actor death has nothing to do with box office
by mattmanreturns
Otherwise Street Fighter, Dr. Parnassus, and Queen of the Damned would've all been huge hits. And Batman 3's performance won't prove anything... if it under-performs it will probably be because it's not as good a movie as Dark Knight (which is a very real possibility).
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Jul 12, 2010 12:35:32 PM CDT
do you know where i could find Aronofski's script to read it?
by killik
i am very intrigued to see his take on Batman.
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What the fuck are you talking about, 'mixed reviews'? Also, Dark Knight is number 6 worldwide, not number 10. Not that any of this really proves anything, but at least get your facts straight.
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isn't that they hate the movie (whatever, everyone is entitled to their opinion), it's when they try to fabricate bullshit to support their viewpoint. "It performed better domestically than internationally, so it must suck." Really? So did E.T.
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1.and the original got 97% which makes it a superior movie than the remake,which proves what i said in my post.see what happens when you use numbers from "professional" reviews to backup your statements instead of relying on your personal experience and feedback you get from the world you live in? ha
2.worlddwide = oversees aka without USA.check the link i posted ffs.TDK is no10 in the top 10 of oversees grosses and not even the comicbook movie with the highest overseer grosses.hmm i wonder why.... -
Give me some credit, I know that SF is not limited to Star Wars and movies of that kind, hell I know Children Of Men is sci-fi, yet there is not a laser gun or spaceship to be found, I just don't stretch it so far as to include stuff like Bond, or Clancy stories. I just don't see it. Those films do have sci-fi elements, absolutely, but IMO, not enough that you can classify them as sci-fi films. Moonraker is James Bond as sci-fi, I'll give you that. But the rest of the Bond films? Not so much. Like I said, they have elements of sci-fi, but not enough to put them in that category, but that's just my opinion. Same with the Clancy stories. I am not saying you are wrong mind you, just I look at it differently that's all.
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1. I was arguing your "mixed reviews" comment. 2. I see what you're saying now about just taking the oversees gross... although I'm not sure what that proves? Do you honestly think Spider-Man 3 is a better movie just because it made more oversees? Is that how you judge movies?
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i am not using the BO numbers to prove that TDK is overrated.i have my opinion for that.what i am talking about is that TDK was benefited A LOT by Ledger's death and thats why it became a gigantic hit in the USA.
If it was not for Ledger's death,the overexposure/brainwash that followed for the next month from the Media until the movie's premiere and the fact that the average american movie audience are lifeless celebrity-whores,then you can bet your ass that TDK would have not made so much money in the USA.
and a hint of that is its perfomance oversees.it performed well but analogically it didnt make records outside the USA.as i said it didnt even manage to break SM3 record for a super-hero movie.if you can give another explanation for this anomaly be my guest.but eventually we will really find out what is the case when B3 comes out. -
That was a huge hit domestically and made a bit less oversees. I don't recall any relevant actor death before that movie.
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NEEEEEXT
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percentage ratio to domestic. Yet Batman and Robin did much better worldwide than domestically. So what does all this prove? FUCKING NOTHING.
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TDK is #6 overall worldwide, but if you go strictly by overseas numbers and do not include USA, it ranks lower than you might think.Its overseas gross was $486.6 million, now I don't have time to do the math, but there is something like 24 films that have had higher overseas grosses, but combined with domestic grosses, it does indeed crack the 1 billion mark. Just because a film does not do as good overseas as it does in the US means nothing, as anyone with any knowledge of movies knows, box office gross does not equate to quality. Transformers 2 had a worldwide haul of over 800 million, but that didn't make it a good movie. Alice In Wonderland is #5 worldwide and it sucked. So to say TDK sucked because its overseas gross was less than its domestic makes no sense.
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That's all you've got to say when someone uses your own logic against you? I'm done with you.
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i dont give a fuck about RT even if it supports my own opinions.now on the other hand BO numbers are not reviews,are not opinions by the so called "pro critics" which they never represent the general consensus.they are statistics,numbers which represent cold facts.and from those numbers anyone can draw his conclusions.i drew mine ,you can draw yours and then we discuss about them.thats all.
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Spider Man 3 did make more than TDK did overseas....ouch that just is not right....LOLTDK Overseas total gross=$468.6 millionSpider Man 3 Overseas total gross=554.3 millionWow just goes to show you, stupidity is not just limited to the US hahahaha.
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Unless you think the general consensus is that Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is the best Indy film... since it made the most money.
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you used a bad and plain stupid example.there are multiple reasons for that.does your ego feel the need to explain them to you or are you clever enough to think them in your own?
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you used a bad and plain stupid example.there are multiple reasons for that.does your ego feel the need to explain them to you or are you clever enough to think them in your own?
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Jul 12, 2010 1:30:16 PM CDT
TDK still accomplished what only 5 other films before it did
by rogueleader66
And that is reach the $1 billion mark. Only 6 films have done that and TDK is one of them. Ok box office does not equal quality like I said, but I am not speaking of quality, I am talking numbers, and TDK is in a very exclusive club, and that is impressive even if you don't like the movie.
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you used a bad and plain stupid example.there are multiple reasons for that.does your ego feel the need to explain them to you or are you clever enough to think them in your own?
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It's fun LOL
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I wasn't really sure what to think of this film based on its intentionally overly-vague marketing. I want to like it based on the director/writer, but I'm always gun-shy about Leo as a leading man so I tend to want more. The recent ads are starting to crack on that, but this review says more without saying everything, and has sold me on seeing it. (It helps too that just yesterday I watched The Prestige which was quite good.)That said, I predict there's a twist to why Leo can't remember his family that's a pretty standard hosing, and I hope I'm wrong.
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because it seems to me that you still have not understood what i am talking about.
lets go again: i am not talking about general consensus here,i am not talking about the quality of the film,i am talking about a fucking ANOMALY in the BO.i gave my own explanation for that,and that explanation has not the slightest reference about the film's quality.ironically its you who brings this matter all the time,while i am talking solely about BO numbers.
lets go back to the anomaly.if you disagree with my explanation (Ledger's death,Media cannibalism,etc),could you please address me the reasons for your disagreement and if possible to give your own explanation? thank you. -
I *think* you're saying that Ledger's death inflated the domestic box office, but had no effect worldwide, thus the movie made less internationally than domestically? If that's what you're saying, then the international box office represents more what the movie would have done domestically had Ledger not died... but the international box office is still huge... so... big deal. Maybe it wouldn't have cracked a billion if Ledger hadn't died (and that's a big, theoretical maybe). It still would've done exceptionally well, because it's a good movie.
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I think Ledger's death contributed to the gross of TDK...that being said, I don't think it contributed very much. Yea, there are people who went to see that film strictly to see if Ledgers final performance was as good as had been said, but that was a tiny group of people.Media cannibalism? What big movie is not cannibalized by the media? Does that automatically mean the film is going to do big numbers because of that? No. Were there people who went to see it strictly because of the hype? Absolutely. Was it a significant amount of people? Nope, never is. Those 2 groups did not significantly bolster the box office gross of TDK. They did contribute to it, but it made the money it did mostly because it is a quality film. To deny that a small amount of people went to see it strictly because it was Ledgers last performance is stupid, it's a fact, but to say that it is a main reason why the film did so good is also stupid. It was a quality performance and even people who went for the hype and because of Ledger were mostly won over by the film. I don't care how good Ledger's performance was, if the overall film was shit, it would not have been enough to secure a $1 billion worldwide gross.Bottom line is, TDK made a lot of money because it is a good film. Sure not everyone liked it, but the majority of those who saw it, did...a lot.
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On that note, time to go be responsible and do some work.
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I'd say all comic book films are fantasies, but very few of them are attempting to extrapolate existing technologies in any meaningful way. Dark Knight? Well...it is certainly more "SF" than other Batman movies, but probably still exists in the "dark urban fantasy" arena, in that the SF trappings are just that--window dressing that allows the filmmaker to tell a story. "Iron Man" probably comes closer to SF than any other superhero film I can think of, in the sense that they are more-or-less playing in a world in which physics controls reality, and Tony Stark is forced to actually deal with technological problems and solutions. Clancy was, to my knowledge, attempting to stay within known technologies, so "techno-thriller" yes, SF no. Bond? Bond is fantasy. They don't care that much about whether it works, as long as it looks realistic enough to slide into the illusion. As far back as "Goldfinger" they were making it up (lasers just weren't that powerful at the time.) So they're fairy tales for adults more than anything else.
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grosses while it is the 6th film who reached the 1b mark.The total gross of the other 5 movies above TDK,is consisted at least 60% from oversees grosses.TDK is consisted only at 46.8%.it is an anomaly all right.does anyone have any theory which explains this anomaly please? no? then i will stick to mine.thank you.
ps.I am referring the cannibalizing by the Media to Ledger's death,not the movie itself which was affected by this indirectly. -
Fantasy is making the impossible plausible.
Sci-Fi is making the implausible possible.
A guy who fights crime with only his fist and uses a bunch of hi-tech weapons seems pretty implausible. Especially when you have things like glider capes, cell phone radar and fear gas. But the TDK makes it seem possible.
That's my opinion at least. -
And after this I REALLY have to go... many of the Batman movies seem to suffer from that "anomaly". In fact, only 38% of Tim Burton's first Batman film was international gross... even less than Dark Knight. Returns is 39%, Forever is 45%... the only one that has higher international gross is Batman and Robin, strangely enough. So maybe Batman just isn't as profitable internationally (unless you turn it into a gay, rubber fetish nightmare, as Joel Shumacher did with Batman and Robin). But this anomaly is not limited to Dark Knight.
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I cannot explain the overseas grosses for TDK being as low as they are. Despite that, the film was still a monumental success and I do not believe that a lot of it was because of Ledger, I just think it was a good film. Maybe overseas Batman just doesn't have the same appeal as "super power" or high tech super heroes do. I cannot explain the tastes of movie goer's around the world.
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scifi makes the implausible possible because then it wants to COMMENT on it.As someone else above said,the only scifi part of TDK was the scene where Luscious Fox and Batman were talking about the consequences that come with such a technological power of public monitoring.it is scifi exactly because they talked about it,they made a COMMENT about technology.
but when technology is only used as an insignificant part of a character's story (Batman's gadgets and tank-car only bring entertainment which has nothing to do with commentary of any kind) then this is no fucking scifi.
if thats how young nerds think of scifi,then there is no wonder that Star Trek stopped playing in the USA television and we got the STINO shit instead.well done guys. -
it has very low (by comparison) oversees grosses but on the other it has the biggest domestic grosses. (apart for the King's movies ofc).In other words Ledger's death was the best present for WB and Nolan.the irony of life right?
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Killik, at the time, the original Batman film was no different. Huge domestic, low international (comparatively). It was an even larger "anomaly" than Dark Knight, in fact... as the international gross was only 35% of its take. (And now I'm really, for reals, leaving... I'll check back later).
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about this: ofc for the BO numbers,it also helped the fact that Ledger gave a brilliant performance as a Joker.so its more a combination of Ledger's death and his performance that boosted the movie's commercial success.
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That Ledger's death had little to do with the success of TDK. It contributed, no doubt, but not significantly. It was a highly anticipated film, it was going to do well regardless. It did a little bit better because a B list star gave a A list performance, and it also was his final performance. Heath Ledger was not a big star, he was known, but not close to a huge star. Had he lived, he would be an A list star now. So again I say, TDK did well because it was a good film, not because of the death of a B list star...hell he might have even been a C list star. Had it been an A list star who had died, then you could make the argument that everyone was going to see the final performance of a huge star. Not so in this case.
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I would still call TDK science fiction. It isn't Science Fiction and it certainly isn't SCIENCE FICTION but I think it qualifies as science fiction, if you get my drift.
The entire tale is a commentary on terrorism and the occupation of Iraq, using a man in a bullet proof bat costume with glider cape fighting crime in an imaginary city and using hi-tech technology, some of which can be seen as analogues to what is going on in the real world (like the Cell Phones being a commentary on invasion of privacy). Hell, Batman himself is a commentary on politics when he goes out and performs an extraordinary rendition in Hong Kong. I would also say Batman's gizmos and technology are a commentary of hi-tech (Batman, US) vs. a low-tech villain (Joker, Iraqi Insurgents).
You add the fear gas from BB (a chemical weapon used as the ultimate TERRORism weapon) and you have a lot of Sci-Fi element where they are making commentary on both technology and society.
And no, I am not going to get into that thing where Sci-Fi is not a correct term for science fiction. I am not that big of stickler on semantics. -
On the other hand, also contributed to the film's success, but I still maintain that it was not a significant contribution. No matter how good a performance an actor gives, if the rest of the movie is crap, people will not see it, at least not as many people who saw TDK.
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Don't be daft. Your points are all over the map, you change your tune everytime MattmanReturns or rogueleader66 addresses them point by point. And they are doing a very good job at that. Really, just give up, you are looking sillier and sillier.
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"It isn't Science Fiction and it certainly isn't SCIENCE FICTION but I think it qualifies as science fiction"....Dude, WTF are you talking about....I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but what the hell does that mean?
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Ther eis one fact, though: USA has the most movie going public in the whole world. This means, americans just go much more to the ovies then most foreigners. Why this is so, i really don't know. Ine possible explanation is that americans rewatch the movies many times. Another is that you guys have a lot of theaters per 1000 habitants, more then any other nation. Another is that you are over-stimulated to watch the movies due to over-bombing of the marketing. It's known that studios spend 90% of their marketing budget on USA ALONE! Think about it! You get overbombed, and we get a small advertizement pushes in comparison, thus, less trust to pull audiences in theaters. Also, there's a cultural thing, america is just a very cinephile country, it's your culture, you pratically invented movies as mass market business. And then there's the prices. What you guys pay for each ticket is insane! I pay 6 Euros for a movie tickey and i complain. you guys pay 12 bucks... and those are the cheap ones. Each american pays twice the average foreigner. Small wonder your numbers can be bigger then the rest of the world. You are overbombed, you go in mass numbers and you pay much more. Could be it.
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I mean it isn't an obvious Science Fiction movie. Obviously there is degrees in anything, TDK is on the border between Science Fiction and straight up Action movie, but it I think it has enough elements to qualify as Science Fiction.
If you need a ranking system, science fiction would be the Batman movies, Science Fiction would be Blade Runner and Terminator, and SCIENCE FICTION would be Star Trek. Obviously I am not advocating ranking them in such a way; I was being very tongue-in-cheek. -
Movies used to be cheap. I can barely afford to go anymore and I hate that. In fact, I am writing an article for my blog about why going to the movies is not as special as it used to be. I love going to the movies, for me nothing will ever be as good as seeing a film in the theater, but it has certainly lost something over the years. Anyways I won't go further, I'll let you read the article when i am done with it.
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I saw 2012....omg was it bad. I generally can take Emmerich's films, but that was just too much, and it had one of my favorite actors in it, John Cusack. Oh well everyone is entitled to a misstep, and that was his, and damn it was a big one.
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Ok, i got ya, thought maybe I was losing my freaking mind there for a minute.
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Jul 12, 2010 3:14:20 PM CDT
Mattman was the original Batman no2 in the all-time domestic BO
by killik
during that era? you see thats the point: TDK didnt just do very well in the USA BO.it did extremely well,it did phenomenally in the domestic market.you hardcore fans,above all,have not really grasped the true magnitude of the movie's success.
The 1b that it achieved is consisted 53% by domestic money and 47% by foreign money.But the difference of 6% between the two box offices is not insignificant.that 53% makes TDK no3 in the domestic BO,while the 47% makes it no21 in the oversees BO.you see where this thing lead? TDK success in USA is colossal,its insane.
the only movie that somehow reaches the same situation where the domestic grosses separates it from the below movies significantly while the foreign grosses are comparatively low,is Pirates2 but even that movie is behind TDK at least 100m.do you understand what i am telling you? even if TDK was the best movie of all times,even then it would have been impossible to achieve such gigantic success in our present day.
got it? -
but then again,you thought that TDK made 1B alone without the USA BO.heh.
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we have a saying in Greece: a thing like being a bit pregnant does not exist.
TDK might have scifi elements but they are not enough to make it a scifi movie.and in case you have not noticed: the social commentary in the film is being made by Joker (and a bit by Alfred),not Batman.Until the very end of the movie,Batman is only a spectator of the Joker's show.Dont give attributes to the movie which it does not deserve.its a fine police crime drama but not a scifi movie.i think that even those parallels with 9/11 that some fans/reviewers attribute to the film are superficial.
btw Iron Man is more scifi,a lot more scifi than TDK. -
Sf is not only a genre that's very flexible, but it's also very pervasive. It measn that if you have a Sf element in a story, it makes it SF. SF is a genre very good at hybridation. It mweasn that you can have a SF movuie with drama elements or you can have a drama with SF elements, the end result is the same, you have a SF movie that is also something else. SF is very flexible, and it's easy to make it share other genres in the same story. That's one of the beauties and strenghs of SF as a genre.Returning to Bond, very few Bond movies are not SF, very few indeed. Only those which use already existing technology you could classify as just a spy adventure. and of those, from the top of my head, i can recall ON YOUR MAGESTY'S SECRET SERVICE, THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS and CASINO ROYALE. The rest are heavy into SF stuff, sometimes preposterously so, and not just MOONRACKER, but also THE SPY WHO LOVE ME, YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, even the very first of them all, DOCTOR NO. Just because Bond travels to various real world places doesn't make the movies less SF. Bond does belong to the Sf genre.And so does most of not all of comic superheroes. Take, for instance, Superman. He's an alien, literally, he came from another planet, he came from Krypton, he fell to Earth. Why would THE MAN WHO FELT TO EARTH eb called Sf but not Superman, when both are similiar in basic theme, the story of two aliens from a dying world, try to pass as humans and who get stuck on Earth? See what i mean? Spider-Man, he resulted from a bite of a spider which had been mutatee by science. SF, SF, SF, you see SF all over the superheroes comic books. Batman is no different. THe thign with TDK is that, even more then BATMAN BEGINS, it ballances more toward wordly grit, but there's still much of the SF elements and veneer to the movie. And for me it's very pretty obvious.SF author and editor John Bliss once defined Sf as any drama in which there is a relation between man and science/technology, and which if you take any of the scientific element you could not tell the story you could not tell the story as it is. This relationship element is what gives Sf it's flexibility. Taken literally, such unexpected movies like David Cronenberg's CRASH becames a SF story, because it's the story of people who get their sexual kicks out of cars and cars crashes. Cars are product of science and technology. Thus, SF. Nolan's Batman movies are the same thing, take away some of the tech elements in the story, and you could not tell it. You could say then "but that means so many stuff out there, movies and TV, are SF". YES, EXACTLY. They are. Not sold as such, by they are. EXACTLY. Tom Clancy's techno-thrillers are Sf stories. The real matter is,a nd this is not just me saying, it was covered in an article in the SFX magazine, most publications houses and movie studios and TV companies fear selling anything as SF, even when a show is openly SF (like LOST), and they go by other names because they fear gross disinterest by the public, who they reckon (with some reason, i'm affraid to say) that the average public equates SF with Star Wars type stories and those only. Sf still has a veneer of disprestige about it (ironically, thanks to the sucess of Star Wars and many cartoons like Transformers) as it's seen as a mostly childen of pre-adolescent genre. This despiste such now classic adult SF titles as 2001, BLADE RUNNER, THX 1138, CHILDREN OF MEN, 1984, TWELVE MONKEYS, BRAZIL... but the thing is, still, Sf is seen mostly as a kid's genre. Thus, publishers and movie studios fear labeling anything as SF, for fear of losing public. You as a geek might think this is absurd, but that is as a geek. Which you are. That Nolan had gone to press and said, opnely, that he made his Batman movies as if they are Sf movies does makes him go against the grain of what most filmmakers would do to try to sell his movies. He must be extremely self-confident.
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"you thought that TDK made 1B alone without the USA BO"I stand corrected.As for the "abnormality, guess what? There is no explanation. It happened. Ask Geroge Lucas why his Star Wars movies were so sucessful, and he has no answer. He says so himself in the documentary about themaking of THE PHANTOM MENACE, when he learns of the box office results of TITANIC. He says, that nobody knows how this things happen. It happens.And this is a truth of the movie business. nobody knows why some movies prove to be extraordinarily popular, beyond all projections. Nobody knows. They defy explanation. The professionals of the film business don't know, the critics don't know, the marketing people don't know, we don't know, nobody knows. that's how it is. It happens. There is a word to name effects of the phenomenum, "zeitgeist", but it doesn't explain the phenomenum why it happened. Again, i repeat: NOBODY KNOWS. If this answer frustrates you, it's nothign compared to how studio executives feel when they try to make a formula out of some movie's sucess, try to aply it, and fail miserably with a mega-flop on their hands. NOBODY KNOWS.
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Interesting, thanks for the insight
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My pleasure.
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Regarding box office success/failure...Could not have said that better my friend, there are no absolutes in the movie industry, no one can explain why sometimes a "sure thing" bombs nor can anyone explain why something no one thought would make money makes a ton.It's the nature of the business, the only thing predictable about the movie business is that it's unpredictable.I'm off, may be back later
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Jul 12, 2010 4:01:25 PM CDT
TDK's domestic/foreign gross differential
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
is easy to explain. Superhero movie just don't play as well outside the US as in. That's always been the case, and if you look at the history of box office grosses the pattern emerges. Comic books are an inherently American invention, as much as jazz or the hamnburger is. They have certainly made in-roads as far as the globalization of world culture in the past 20 years is concerned, but they still lack the universal appeal, and culture bridging deep archetypes of stories like Harry Potter, Star Wars and yes, again...Avatar. This is not rocket science.Now, as regards Ledger's death and its effect on TDK's gross, it was certainly a factor. However, TDK would still have done extremely well regardless. BB's had a very slow but steady rise to its $200 million haul, since the word of mouth was good and word got around that Batman had been restored to his former glory after the disastrous reputation Batman and Robin had crippled the character with. That alone put any sequel by the same creative team on a good footing and on target for an accumulative higher gross. Add in the Joker, no matter who played him, and you can add an even larger number onto that, since the character is by far the most iconic and well known foe to the general public. And then, of course, Ledger's performance was already drawing attention even before his death, from the trailers and set reports. If Ledger had not died I think TDK would have earned about $400 million plus anyway, but there's no doubt that the curiousity factor of his death sent the box office over the top and into the stratosphere. I'd say it accounted for at least $100 million, mostly from casual viewers, though certainly not the geek faithful who would have gone to see it regardless.
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You will be back?
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You change your tune every time we counter your point. You don't actually address the real issue. The pattern shows that Batman movies are far more successful domestically than internationally. You keep avoiding this key fact. It doesn't matter that Dark Knight was #2 domestically (that shit comes and goes)... it climbed so high because it was a damn good movie. And hell, it did really well internationally also... and had a smaller domestic vs. international percentage ratio than the original Batman. This "anomaly" isn't some huge mystery, as it's happened to pretty much every Batman film. Dark Knight made more domestically AND internationally than any other Batman film because the majority of people considered it the best one.
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Well, it was, but that's only one factor of many. Batman Forever was a piece of shit, and yet trounced BR's gross. There are a lot of factors at play, and quality is only but one.
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Exclusively sci-fi, no. But there is just as much hi-tech/sci-fi elements in Batman as there is actually elements that make it a police crime drama in all honesty.
As for the 9-11 commentary - that is Batman Begins. TDK is about the occupation of Iraq. -
"Superhero movie just don't play as well outside the US as in"That's a truism that is not really true. Superhero movies are as popular abroad as in the USA. The real reason for the box office numbers resides elsewhere. And as i said above, it has more to do with the price of tickets, and most important of all, the amoutn of advertizement you guys suffer agaisnt the much lesser marketing bombardment we get outside. As i said before, 90% of a movie's marketing budget is destined for the US alone. The rest of the world gets 10%. You would be suprised how little mvoies are promoted here compared to in your shores. Thus, you have an awareness about certain movies (to the point of nausea, i might add) which just doesn't happen here. We get some TV adverts until the day of release, maybe a TV coverage if it's a topical movie or Batman, posters in the theaters and that's it. Comic superhero movieslike TDK are as loved and enjoyed by audiences as they are in USA, the issue is not the subject or the genre. All this story of "Star Trek underperfoming aboard compared to USA because foreigners like SF less then americans" (and who says Star Trek can also say Spider-Man or Batman Begins or The Dark knight) is fucking bullshit. Fucking bullshit. There is no differences between the popularity about Batman or SF in USA or abroad, it's the same thing. On this things are pretty global. It's a cliché to say that americans know little about the rest of the world, but in talks like this, it's the cliché proved true.
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Jul 12, 2010 4:13:22 PM CDT
William Goldman's maxim that "Nobody knows anything"
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
is a load of bull in my opinion. There are certainly anomalies, but to pretend that it's all up in the air is complete nonsense. Its quite easy to determine what movies will make, at least roughly if not to the exact figure. The problem Hollywood execs make is that they look at only mechanics and formula, instead of factoring in the creative teams, how a particular story resonates at its core; they have no intuition for the creative side of things, or how people respnd to them. Once you figure that out, its quite easy to determine what something will make, with the odd margin for error.
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it climbed so high because people kept going back and seeing it again. :)
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It is true. It is not a matter of superhero movies not being popular at all outide the US. I never said that. They are, and increasingly so; TDK made plenty of money outside the USA, as did Spider-Man and others. But the box office patterns do not lie. They do not prove AS popular as the domestic market. And I think I explained why, before. Comic books have been in the American psyche for years. Your father's father could have read them. They have spanned most of the 20th century. Thus, many generations have grown up with them and when subsequent filmed adaptations of superheroes were made - a long time in the coming in some cases - there was a huge audience for them. Marvel Comics weren't even introduced to somewhere like the UK until even the 60's. And in other countries, much later. So the superhero characters aren't as deeply embedded in the psyche of the rest of the world. As culture has become more globalized, and the internet has broken down these barriers, superheroes and culturally specific things have become more universal. Not to mention these character now appearing in blockbuster movies which have become de facto (superhero movies have almost become their own genre like action movies were in the 80's, and no longer an occasional one off like the original Superman or Batman films) helps spread their appeal, as cinema is a resonant and widely seen medium for doing so, much more than written material. How many people hadn't even heard of the character of say, Iron Man until the first movie? Quite a lot. But anyway, even though this genre has increasing global popularity, the US has a much larger head start than the rest because the characters were already in the cultural fabric there.As for Star Trek, regardless of the quality of the film, it, too, was not popular or known as aseries in most of the world. Star Trek was only ever popular in the US, UK, and Germany. The Asian countries knew little about it, and accordingly JJ's crapfest was re-named 'Star Trek: The Future Begins" over in those territories. I believe this, more than anything else, has to do with Star Trek's lower grosses in foreign territories as opposed to US domestic. It has nothing to do with foreigners not liking SF per se, as you claimed, and indeed we know that Asian countries love sci fi.And finally, Asi, what makes you think I'm an American? You shouldn't make such presumptions, friend. I've never disclosed any personal details about myself here, and do not care to, but I ceratinly have first hand knowledge of what I speak.
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It's no bulslhit at all. He's a guy who has worked in the movie industry for 50 years now, and he has sene it all. Black horses who came out of no where and win box office riches and awards. Sure fire hits that flop hard and destroy careers. If there is one real truth about Holywood business is that nobody reallty know what will happen next. And those who claim so, those who say they have the formula to sucess, those are bulslhiters who talk tall, who hide their failures while over-promoting their sucesses until nausea. People who claim they know why this was a suces and that wasn't are just bulslhitting.. They talk tall to make an impression on the type of pweople who makes the vast majority of the people working in Hollywood: insecure people whose job is working in a business where nothing is safe and secure. Quentin Tarantino in his audio comentary forA TRUE ROMANCE even says so himself, the trick is to talk to the Holywood people as if you know something they don't and convince them of that, even if you don't know it yourself. They love honesty, but they love evne mroe somebody with certainties, because they don't have. NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING is not a truism, it's the truth.
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You task like an american, dude. Albeit with a slightly better use of the english grammar, i grant you that. Ok, that convinces me, you are not an american.
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Dark Knight and Batman Begins had a couple of sci-fi ELEMENTS (microwave emitter and the cell phone radar thing), but I don't think there was enough to actually qualify it as such. With Iron Man, the core (pardon the pun) premise of the film relies on sci-fi.
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As much as I'm not a fan of Nolan, I really look forward to this movie...
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Batman is a comic book character. Comic book novelizations are usually put in the Science-Fiction section of book stores. I wouldn't doubt that one would be there as well. In fact, at Amazon.com it is listed as being categorized under Science Fiction & Fantasy.
Batman is about a comic book superhero, and the superhero sub-genre itself is usually considered part of the Sci-Fi or fantasy genres. So despite trying to be told realistically and be very much part of the real world, it is still very much part of that sub-genre (Super-Hero fiction) and as such is included in the science fiction genre. -
This is fucking awesome! this movie is everything i wanted it to be and more. Brain fucked by Nolan, why yes of course. this is everything and nothing you've come to expect. I wont spoil anything for anyone. *watched a free screening of it last nite*
let's just say ..its not blade runner...its not star man, its not the matrix (but it sure as fuck is better than that)
this is Chris Nolan at his best *not his peak*
the acting was great too, maybe a few stale moments from certain actors but no one was phoning in anything.
you just wait and see. -
cut the whole batman this and batman that, yes i totally agree amazing movies!! but come on, look at the writing for that it's worth, look at the intellect...
... in short... dont be such douche bags and just go watch this movie! -
cut the whole batman this and batman that, yes i totally agree amazing movies!! but come on, look at the writing for that it's worth, look at the intellect...
... in short... dont be such douche bags and just go watch this movie! -
Monday Screening at Colorado Center 9 at 7pm === SPOILER FREE COMMENTS ====
I personally raised the bar extremely high for this one. So fucking high, in fact, they had to measure for distance. Well, INCEPTION is now My Favorite Film of 2010. Nolan is everything that Spielberg and Lucas USED TO BE. In fact, this is now my favorite Nolan Film (Memento had owned that spot once upon a you know what). There is so much to discover within INCEPTION, I can't wait to see it again when I return from vacation. I had planned on an IMAX Presentation opening night, but the free sneak preview at 7pm four days early couldn't be turned down. I will also throw this out, spoiler free: As soon as the movie ended, something unique occured amongst the sold out crowd. Won't say what it was, but I will say jimmy crack corn and they all gave a fuck. Now that I've made beyond believable expectations for you, forget what I have said and go judge for yourself. IMAX WOULD be worth the money for this one, no question whatsoever. And, Mr.Nolan, if you happen to be glancing at this (or anyone involved in the production), Good On Ya because this is the genuine definition of MOVIE MAGIC.
INCEPTION: "A" -
Marvel was told that "The Hulk" and "The Incredible Hulk" were solid pictures, and yet, they reconsidered their actions in the aftermath of the release of said films. The same is true of the view of the releasing studio behind the Spiderman franchise. TDK is not the Godfather of comic book films, such a film has never been made, however, the hype machine has been working over-time to convince the masses of such a view, and you have gladly bought into that hype, so be be it, I won't try to convince you of the contrary. I won't try to convince you that Santa Claus doesn't exist either.My reasoning in bringing up the Marvel executives, is they have had a number of the biggest comic book based movie franchises in film history, with Spiderman being at the top of the list...of all such franchises, still, they are smart enough, thanks in part to some negative fan reactions, to take pause and realize when there are flaws in their films, and they move to fix them. If it can happen with Marvel, even with billions of dollars made, and at stake, it can certainly happen with DC and Warner Brothers.Chris Nolan has made some flawed Batman films, and if he is the smart filmmaker some claim that he is, he will listen to the criticisms he has received and fix what is wrong, the next time around--or he will risk going out the way of Sam Raimi: you'll recall he was fired from Spiderman, and lost credibility with fans over the direction of the franchise? TDK was sloppy, and Nolan only got away with it because of the avalanche of sympathy over Heath Ledger's death. Next time, he may not be so lucky.
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You comenting about inteligence is the very definition of irony made real.
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By using Sf elements you alreaady make the story SF. And if they are very integral and important elements for the plot, that their absense would prevent the story be told, then you have a SF movie. Ergo both BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT. doens't matter if those SF elements are shown a lot of in selected scenes, they are there, and are important to the plot and the story. BB and TDK are SF movies, mixed with oher genres. SF hybrids very easy with all other genres. You have a SF element, you have a SF story.
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Jul 13, 2010 11:03:03 AM CDT
MIGHT BE THE ONLY MOVIE I LIKE WITH DICAPRIO IN IT
by kickyouinthenickels
thought im not a dicaprio fan .....at all.
this movie looks awesome. Nolan is the new James Cameron who doesnt need blue people to make his movie. -
@Asi:
"There is no explanation. It happened."
Your answer,apart from giving a lazy,cynical explanation, is nothing more than a diplomatic way to avoid the points i raise concerning the connection between the success of TDK and Ledger's death.Frankly i didnt anything more than that.
But thats fine with me.I am not trying to persuade other people to accept my theory and i dont have any problem if they blindly attribute more to a movie and its creator than they deserve.BUT since nobody has managed to give valid arguments which counter-attack my theory,then please,please do allow me to freely express my opinion without the need to defend it and ofc being labeled at the same time as a hater.
in other words: whenever the circumstances allow it and i feel the need to do it,i will state my opinion about Ledger's death as being a catalyst to the movie's success.and if some zealot wants to put an argument against me because he thinks that his favorite movie is being desecrated but in reality he has nothing serious to offer to the conversation,then its better to keep it to himself.thank you.
@MattmanReturns:
You keep saying that i change my tune and blah,blah but i dont see you trying to give answers to the specific questions i make.I asked you if the original Batman was no2 etc,and you didnt answer.And i made this question not to prove you that your new example,like the ET example,was also irrelevant to my subject but to prove the fact that you have not yet figured out what the fuck i am talking about.or rather you have but you try to avoid talking about the real issues i raise because,like Asimov,you dont have good arguments to use against them.
in other words: who is the one who is really trying to change the tune?
thats all -
to the point.Personally i believe that without Ledger's death,TDK would have grossed worldwide at maximum around 700m,400 in usa and 300 oversees.and i think Batman3 will be more to that level of income,and thats why i said that i am waiting for its release because it will clear up a lot of things.until then...
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but i dont think Nolan will listen.He didnt listen the criticism from the fans about his crappy action scenes in BB and he did nothing to improve them in DK.Jon Favreu might have made a terrible sequel but at least he listened and tried to fix the action in his sequel.anyway.
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the Pirates movies are scifi too.The War movies are scifi too.The Western movies are scifi too.The racing movies are scifi too.The cop movies are scifi too.The spy movies are scifi too.The sapphic porn movies are scifi too.yep.
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You believe that adding an "SF" element makes it so. To a degree, your opinion is unassailable. If, on the other hand, it matters what, say, SF writers and editors say about the subject, I've witnessed a large number of panels discussing this very subject, and the general consensus among writers and editors is that SF is based on a specific extrapolation of a technological phenomenon, or an attempt to understand a natural phenomenon by technological means, or a human response to such. Heinlein's classic comment is that every SF story is based on one of three things:
1)What if
2) If only, or
3)If this goes on
each of the three dealing with an aspect of the physical world.
By this definition, DK kinda scoots in under the wire with a wink, but would probably be considered "fantasy with SF trappings" more than "SF" itself. -
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In terms of Nolan, most of the TDK and BB fight choreography is without definable structure and is shadowy? In other words, it is unintelligible, as best. They need a more Bourne Identity style treatment, where there is clarity in the fighting, direction, and editing. However, one of the greatest flaws in the Nolan Batman films, is the lack of intimate human emotion, or human bonding, and hence, interplay between the characters? There is an absence of that here, that is harming the new Batman franchise in terms of execution. Bruce Wayne is in a constant unchanging state of being dour, and there are no other levels to, or of, his character, and nothing to break-up the constant bleak monotone nature of Wayne? We are told that he cares about others, and by his actions--as a hero...he does, but he is sterile, and distant--and that does not allow for an emotionally involving, and or, compelling hero--no, he is just oddly one dimensional, and stiff, like wood? The Batman and Bruce Wayne of the early, to mid-90s, animated series had a sense of 3 dimensionality about them, and even the Batman in Warner's new animated DVD Justice League: Crisis On Two Earths. There are traits of humor there, joy, compassion, love, and real hurt. That Batman/Wayne is emotionally connected to the world around him, unlike the Nolan version, which has no understanding of empathy. Alas, Nolan's approach to Batman is antiseptic and cold, an irony, since he has made well funded films, movies that, in this industry, would have had access to the best writers available, but instead, the filmmakers chose otherwise, out of ego. They are films devoid of soul and heart, and thus, absent of any, and all, emotional depth? Add in Nolan's often confused, and confusing plots, and his seeming inability to edit himself (meaning his work--and the fat, therein), and we find ourselves constantly made subject to films that lack true substance, as an end result.
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I've addressed the issue several times, in several different ways, and provided counter arguments, but all you can come up with is "You keep missing my point." It's easy to miss something that isn't there.
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No one can tell me how I felt about a film. I hated the first Spider-Man while everyone else was acting like it was the second coming, so don't give me that bullshit. For me, The Dark Knight IS the Godfather of comic book films. That's my opinion. You can say "No it's not!" all you want, but it doesn't change what the film is for me, no more than my opinion changes what the film isn't for you.
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You've been brainwashed into believing that a movie that isn't good/great, is good/great, and that the filmmaker behind it...is a genius? Chris Nolan is a psuedo intellectual, who got lucky.
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Wow, and he just keeps getting lucky! Memento, Insomnia, Batman Begins, Prestige, Dark Knight, and now Inception... when will the luck end??
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Jul 14, 2010 1:52:41 AM CDT
He certainly got a lot luckier than you, Media Messiah
by mattmanreturns
And I think that's your real issue with him.
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You havent yet provided to me a rational explanation about the BO anomaly i am pointing out.You disagree with me that Ledger's death had nothing to do with TDK insane success in the usa BO but still you havent presented to me valid arguments which supports this.Your counter arguments were 2 irrelevant examples.point in case? did the original Batman became no3 in the all-time domestic BO during that era?YES or NO? your silence speaks for itself.
and i repeat for the 1000th time in the hope that you might understand what i am trying to say: my statement is NOT that TDK performed in comparison,badly in the oversees BO and very well in the domestic market while the opposite applies for the rest of the top ten list movies.which is a proof that TDK is a crappy movie that became a domestic hit because of the Media brainwash.
NO.i am not stating that.As Turd already and correctly said comics are an important part of the american culture but not that much in the rest of the world.which makes it logical that comic book movies wont have the same appeal and success in the international BO (analogically always) like the one they have in the usa BO.
in the case of TDK,for a comic-book movie it went very well in the oversees market earning about 450m dollars, a sum of money which establishes the film as an international hit.there is no denial there.
But here is where appears the anomaly.That 450m consist only the 45% of the movie's total grosses while in the whole top 20 of all-time list,almost all the other movie,their overseess grosses consist the 60% of their total grosses.do you get it? in the case of of TDK,that BO analogy of 40%USA/60%WW is non-existent,in fact its the opposite thing: almost 55%USA/45WW.
you see? all the parameters and analogies that apply for the BO numbers for the rest of the all-time top20 list movie (Even Avatar and Titanic maintain the same analogy: 30%USA/70%),are out of the window in the case of TDK.
the real question is not why TDK became a big success in usa and a moderate,as it is expected for a comic movie,success in the rest of the world.the real question is why TDK became such an INSANE success in USA while it did a moderate,as it is expected for a comic movie,success in the rest of the world.
understood? my explanation for this anomaly is Ledger's death,which acted as a catalyst for the movie's success.yes the movie is good,yes Ledger's performance is brilliant,yes the advertisement campaign was inspired but all these things would have lead to the same commercial result we witnessed if it was not for Ledger's death.capis? -
You havent yet provided to me a rational explanation about the BO anomaly i am pointing out.You disagree with me that Ledger's death had nothing to do with TDK insane success in the usa BO but still you havent presented to me valid arguments which supports this.Your counter arguments were 2 irrelevant examples.point in case? did the original Batman became no3 in the all-time domestic BO during that era?YES or NO? your silence speaks for itself.
and i repeat for the 1000th time in the hope that you might understand what i am trying to say: my statement is NOT that TDK performed in comparison,badly in the oversees BO and very well in the domestic market while the opposite applies for the rest of the top ten list movies.which is a proof that TDK is a crappy movie that became a domestic hit because of the Media brainwash.
NO.i am not stating that.As Turd already and correctly said comics are an important part of the american culture but not that much in the rest of the world.which makes it logical that comic book movies wont have the same appeal and success in the international BO (analogically always) like the one they have in the usa BO.
in the case of TDK,for a comic-book movie it went very well in the oversees market earning about 450m dollars, a sum of money which establishes the film as an international hit.there is no denial there.
But here is where appears the anomaly.That 450m consist only the 45% of the movie's total grosses while in the whole top 20 of all-time list,almost all the other movie,their overseess grosses consist the 60% of their total grosses.do you get it? in the case of of TDK,that BO analogy of 40%USA/60%WW is non-existent,in fact its the opposite thing: almost 55%USA/45WW.
you see? all the parameters and analogies that apply for the BO numbers for the rest of the all-time top20 list movie (Even Avatar and Titanic maintain the same analogy: 30%USA/70%),are out of the window in the case of TDK.
the real question is not why TDK became a big success in usa and a moderate,as it is expected for a comic movie,success in the rest of the world.the real question is why TDK became such an INSANE success in USA while it did a moderate,as it is expected for a comic movie,success in the rest of the world.
understood? my explanation for this anomaly is Ledger's death,which acted as a catalyst for the movie's success.yes the movie is good,yes Ledger's performance is brilliant,yes the advertisement campaign was inspired but all these things would have lead to the same commercial result we witnessed if it was not for Ledger's death.capis? -
Don't be daft.
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NEEEEEXT :)
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You should spend your energies on the real golden calf and false prophet of geekdom: Jar Jar Abrams.
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You really think you are making killer arguments, don't you? And if you can't accept the fact there is no explanation for what you want to be one, that's your problem. If you are going after gods of gaps that is your own fool's errand, don't blame others for your failure to understand when there are things without explanation. Deal with it and stop being daft.
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and he makes very good movies. Deal with it.
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factual events and not to the pathetic way of passive thinking: dont ask,just accept it.
you realize that the above is the cornerstone of the organized religions throughout the world.its the food of the sheep.you might prefer ignorance and passive acceptance instead of inquiry and reasoning but this is not how the world really works.
in other words: dont have the nerve even to judge my arguments,when you dont only supply arguments but instead your way of thinking is no different from the one of the religious sheep.oh wait a minute you are a religious sheep too.isnt Nolan your god and TDK your bible? see what you just proved there? NEXT.
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what about the scene in Barry Lyndon where their son is dying? And that scene is all the more sad and tragic because it earns it. What about Full Metal Jacket, which is really about what happens when you don't show fellow human beings compassion and allow them some dignity? When Matthew Modine says, "Go easy man..." to Leonard, it's almost heartbreaking because we know exactly how we got here and how this could have been avoided. The man gets you to feel sorry for ALEX for chrissakes in Clockwork Orange. I just never buy any of those arguments about Kubrick, because people obviously aren't paying close enough attention. He doesn't veer into melodrama the way Coppola or even Kurosawa might (although I think Kurosawa is on par or better than Kubrick at times) and I love the quote from 'A Life in Pictures' and I'm paraphrasing - "He makes films without pity, he doesn't show us as we like to imagine ourselves but as we are, helpless, selfish, needing love, etc." I think those things are almost completely absent from Nolan's work. I think he's A FANTASTIC filmmaker, but he actually EARNS the 'cold' label. His films are superb on a technical and storytelling level but I think lack emotional depth. Kubrick was clearly preoccupied with human nature, how the worst of us often overwhelms our better nature, and how corruption in society as a whole reflects our often rosy view of ourselves. I actually think this is what he was getting at with the masks in Eyes Wide Shut... that our true selves are always hidden behind political correctness, our ideals, our invented morals... and that we need to make THAT self a reality in order to get to a higher level of consciousness, i.e. the Star Child in 2001. I think what someone said about Fincher elsewhere is also true of Nolan... that he imagines he's making far deeper films that he actually is. I also find Nolan to be a bit arrogant at times, which I always think is a bad thing for an artist. I never felt that way listening to Kubrick, only that he didn't like bullshit in all its profligate forms, of which arrogance is one of them and he certainly didn't tolerate it from the people he worked with... only results. Don't get me wrong, I love pretty much all of Nolan's films but can't put him in the same 'humanist' league as Kubrick or, even less so, Kurosawa. Honestly, and I don't really get the hate from some but whatever, I think 'There Will Be Blood' is probably the greatest film of the last 25 years and one of only a handful of recent films that can be put next to the works of the greatest directors. In that film, you had the complexity of human nature, no easy answers as to why we do the things we do, and a character, as in real life, that shunted society's norms and strived to exist almost as a God on Earth, just like the great robber barons or Napoleon... people whose personalities are inexplicable to those with a more collectivist moral nature (which is often more evil, imho, than people like, say, Rockefeller)... I don't know why, I just love to see that on screen. Also, you have the dimension of the relationship with his son, something that can be debated on an emotional, 'attached' level... did he love his son? I say that he did and the 'bastard in a basket' scene was a bizarre way of him showing that love. But it's up for debate and it has 100% to do with the complexity of what makes us human... it's also probably the most difficult thing to pull off in movies. I don't think Nolan or any director has come anywhere near what Anderson did with Blood... if he continues to pull off that kind of ambiguity in his movies, he'll be the last man standing as far as I'm concerned. But again, I eagerly await Inception and hope that it's more than what I think it will be... I really hope to be surprised.
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good craft,but the end result is lacking.
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boxofficemojo doesnt have it unfortunately.
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More than half of all millionaires are known to be entrepreneurs, and most are known not to be very smart, in fact, most experts consider them to be...individuals who just simply got lucky, by being in the right place, at the right time, with the right product. And just because you are selling the "Pet Rock" (a silly and simple product), doesn't make you necessarily brilliant--as there are millions of similar products that failed, and are failing. Look at Snuggies for instance, they are a direct rip-off of a similar product, however, that other product failed, and Snuggies, thanks to great marketing, have been a huge hit, however, just because they are a hit, doesn't make them good. According to Consumer Reports, the average Snuggie falls apart after ten washings. So much for quality control?Now, why do I bring this up in terms of Chris Nolan? Luck can, and does, often come in levels. Look at Paul W.S. Anderson...and Robert Rodriguez, or Kevin Smith, even. These gentlemen are not great filmmakers, and yet, they keep getting jobs that keep them in the millions, and they have their loyal audiences, and yes, I'd call that luck, tremendous luck, indeed! In this industry there is a very active "Good 'Ol Boys" network, and if you manage to get in it, your ticket is written for the future, yes, you are pretty much set...for life.These gentlemen are all hacks, different levels of hacks, but hacks, nonetheless--and Chris Nolan is a different kind of a hack, as he is the chosen hack for snobs. Aw, welfare checks for millionaires? It must be great to be able to turn-out trash anytime you want...and know that you will be handsomely rewarded and cheered for it, but in the end, and here is the irony, your product all falls apart in the wash--just like a Snuggie!
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"Lolita" was the only film that I have seen of his that really felt warm, and lived in. It was sad, but also vibrant, full of heated passions (much...self destructive), enlightening truths, and it was authentically human--however, most of Kubrick's films are cold and abstract, by design, but still....cold.
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I've understood it every time you've said it. I've presented counter-arguments that show the "anomaly" you speak of has occurred in the past without aid of an actor death. Dark Knight is simply the most recent film this has happened to. The evidence shows that it happens to almost all Batman films, for whatever reason. This one's domestic to international PERCENTAGES are no different than the first Batman's, except this one simply made more money on both domestic and international fronts, while maintaining those typical Batman movie domestic/international percentages. But that also has to do with inflation, (which you seem to have no understanding of if you think my E.T. point isn't a relevant parallel). If Dark Knight had performed better internationally than domestically, THAT would be an anomaly, as Batman films rarely do that. So, in fact, Batman and Robin is the anomalous Batman film... because it is the only Batman film that performed better internationally. Anyway, this is getting tiresome. I don't think anything I can say to you won't be met with "You're missing my point!". Your analysis of box office ignores key factors in order to jump to bizarre conclusions.
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Telling people they've been brainwashed if their opinion differs from yours? Hilarious that you would call the rest of us snobs. And like all snobs, you just can't seem to understand that your opinion is an opinion... yet you keep proclaiming it fact. You can compare Nolan to Paul W.S. Anderson all you want (I can't even type that without laughing), but it doesn't make it true.
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Mattman is right. I'll go one further and say the worst kind of talkbacker, IN MY OPINION, is not the troll... but the one who thinks his opinions are facts.
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I didn't say Nolan is incompetent per-say, but that is a worthy argument, due to the lack of proper structure in his films--story-wise--and editing wise, however, I said that he needed to pay close attention to adding real human emotion to his films, repectively involving, tender and warm moments, humor, and moments of cathartic nature that are absent in his films. Also, his films are bloated with wholly unnecessary scenes, as if he doesn't trust his own initial plot set-ups, or climaxes, thus, he backs them up with B and C stories, and even A and B twist endings, out of deep insecurity, apparantly, that he hasn't done his job? In that way, he seems unconvinced of his own work, there is no true conviction that he is willing to rest his career on...within any of his films. His work feels empty, as if you are watching an emotionless documentary, all the technical skills are there, but the emotion is absent, and that is an issue of story, plotting, dialogue, and direction--and since Nolan calls himself a writer, in addition to being a director, he is steering his mistakes from start to finish, and I call that hack worthy, because a smart filmmaker should know better, as an artist, but Nolan isn't an artist, he is a technician; there is a difference.I am a smart person's Talkbacker...because I dare to stir intellectual debate, where others, more often than not, knuckle under, call names, or stay silent, amid rabid fan opinions to the pro, rather than the con, of subject matter, and popular opinion. That is not being a snob, that is a state of having great taste. Join me--and we can rule the galaxy!
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You've convicted yourself with your own statement. You are your own worst witness!
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Media Messiah, I love that you called SK229 a hypocrite immediately after declaring yourself "the smart person's talkbacker," while claiming not to be a snob. That is just... awesome.
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...are two different levels of hacks, Nolan is a high-end hack, and Paul W.S. Anderson is a low-end hack. My point?: The hood/ghetto is a slum, but even Beverly Hills has its slums.
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...as I did not author SK229's statement--he/she did. I can't be made to answer for said statement, as it is not my own.
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...if true, that isn't snobbery, it just is an observation, hence, my statement that I am the "Smart Person's Talkbacker". Proof is voiced by actions.
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well i just came back from seeing Inception at a preview and like Nolans previous film Memento which I enjoyed and
appreciated so much more the second time I watched it, with inception I found most of my energy directed towards following the storyline on the 4 different levels
of reality instead of being relaxed and enjoying the film.
The movie is extremely clever and challenging and has no boring moments at all but that intellectualism does
take away from the more emotional aspects which only seem to reveal themselves towards the end.
I also kept thinking of Watchmen while watching this film in terms of knowing a film IS quality and IS clever and well made
but just doesnt have that rapport building with an audience that will bring in the box office.
The only reason why I care about a movie like this making money as thats a barometer to producers who will fund more original films like Inception and Watchmen
only when those kinda films DO make money and with this one despite how much I will see it again and despite the fact I will buy it on blu or dvd just to see
the extra scenes of how he constructed the rules and architecture and timeline that governs each dreamscape.
Speaking of which anotehr knod to Memento was the use of TIME within Inception.
When a person goes into a dream, time moves faster, if a person moves into a dream WITHIN that dream time moves even faster still and so on
to the point where when you cut back to reality, a one hour flight will mean someone can do months worth of work within a dream.
Something I wouldve liked to see in Inception was the idea of time moving differently on each dream level, because the mission that Leonardo Di Caprios character was on
seemed to be quite fast paced I didnt see him using that time to his advantage especially when he went into the deeper dreaming levels.
And because relatively speaking the characters had so much time to complete their mission, they used other elemenst to add tension like
the idea someone can get lost in limbo/coma if they go too deep into another person dream.
That dint quite work for me and I wouldve preferred if Inception maybe made time random on each dream level so you would never know if the character were running out of time or not to
implant the idea inot the targets subconscious.
All in all when Inception worked it was great but when they went into the targets forth dream level / Cobbs unconscious ? I started to loose the plot a little -
forth = fourth / dint = didn't/ inot = into
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never tell you how good they are.
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The best chess players are those who choose not to play chess. I win by not playing the game, and staying at peace with myself--as war is obsolete.Yesterday, I read that Disney hired Brad Bird and another writer, to write scenes for Tron: Legacy which will instill emotional power to the film; the scenes are being scripted for scheduled reshoots of the film--such is the case of what should have happenened with Warner and their handling of Chris Nolan, in terms of BB and TDK--especially the latter of the two films. They needed to bring in a writer who could add 10 to 20 pages (10 to 20 minutes) to each film...designed to allow the characters, and the actors, inhabiting them, to better emote, and find emotional connection. Disney is doing it right, and they brought in a master to assist them in that objective (by employing wisdom, you can win everytime)--Warner, however, is playing a game of chess, and when you play such games, sometimes you win, but sometimes...you lose. Sooner or later, the WB will be checkmated if they don't exercise better quality controls over their productions, writing wise.
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Sorry for the typo.
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Jul 14, 2010 11:35:01 PM CDT
The Dark Knight is the most OverRated Film OF ALL FECKING THYME
by shavedleatherpig
Second place goes to EVERY PIXAR movie !!!! -
...Pixar really bought-off the critics on that one, but I must say that Ratatouille was a brilliant, and complete, film--a real classic.To TDK though, it was just very bland, overlong, and without real depth or intellect, with just a faux sacchrin pretend depth and intellect, in its place. Instead of faking real life drama by giving us a watered-down riff on the movie Heat, but with a comic book clause that states Batman can't kill, Nolan and Warner should have said to hell with the rules, and had Batman Bruce/Wayne take the Two-Face/Harvey Dent vigilante bend on things, and killed Joker and his men, and threat Gordon in the process. Now that would have raised the dramatic tone of TDK, and Batman as a character, to all new levels. We should have later seen Alfred asking if he, Bruce, lost his moral compass in doing so, with Bruce saying, "If I had done this earlier, then maybe Rachel and many others would still be alive?" The movie should have left us with a darker Batman, a morally split and confused hero, who was everything that the "Batman Avengers" aspired to be, and far worse. He should have seemed more villain than hero. A movie like that would have been worthy of being called something akin to the Godfather, not the one we got, a film that pulled all of its punches, so as not to offend the family audience, killing all credibility and integrity.
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Jul 15, 2010 12:57:19 AM CDT
Amended--ShavedLeatherPig: Agreed..."Up" Was Horrible...
by media messiah
...Pixar really bought-off the critics on that one, but I must say that Ratatouille was a brilliant, and complete, film--a real classic.To TDK though, it was just very bland, overlong, and without real depth or intellect, with just a faux saccharin pretend depth and intellect, in its place. Instead of faking real life drama by giving us a watered-down riff on the movie Heat, as TDK did, but with a comic book clause that states Batman can't kill, Nolan and Warner should have said to hell with the rules, and had Batman Bruce/Wayne take the Two-Face/Harvey Dent vigilante bend on things, in place of Two-Face/Dent, and killed Joker and his men, and threatened Gordon in the process. Now that would have raised the dramatic tone of TDK, and Batman as a character, to all new levels. We should have later seen Alfred asking if he, Bruce, lost his moral compass in doing so, with Bruce saying, "If I had done this earlier, then maybe Rachel and many others would still be alive?" The movie should have left us with a darker Batman, a morally split and confused hero, who was everything that the "Batman Avengers" aspired to be, and far worse. He should have seemed more villain than hero. A movie like that would have been worthy of being called something akin to the Godfather, not the one we got, a film that pulled all of its punches, so as not to offend the family audience, killing all credibility and integrity in the process.
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Tim Burton made a couple of movies just for you. To me, that's not some bold choice... it's just the choice of a filmmaker and writer who didn't understand the character, or simply didn't care. Making Batman a killer seems like an easy way out. It's harder for him NOT to be a killer (which is the whole point, isn't it?). Nolan was the first to truly capture the Batman/Joker relationship as it exists in the comics. I've been a huge Batman nut most of my life, so maybe I take the character too seriously. For the record, I liked Burton's take, although even at 10 years old I knew it wasn't true to the character. And the scene in Batman Returns when Keaton sticks that dynamite in the clown's pants (which is admittedly hilarious) always rubbed me the wrong way. Burton's Batman is a sadistic asshole. Nolan's Batman feels like he stepped right out of the comics, which is something I'd waited all my life to see portrayed accurately. I didn't really give a shit what the media thought of the movie, or how much it was going to make... I saw it with my own baggage, and if Nolan fucked anything up, I would've been the first to call bullshit. For me, it was the Batman movie I'd been waiting a long time for. Anyway, it's late. I'm out.
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Nolan was nothing but a big dick tease. Look, if you are going to present something as being the adult level of a movie like "Heat", you should deliver it, or go home, because it becomes nothing but a bait and switch if you don't deliver what was seemingly promised. It is a cop-out!!! If you are going to present something in a real world manner, and then chicken-out, you don't deserve to be taken seriously. Again, I have seen a better, more frightening, and adult, Batman...in the 90s animated cartoons...and in the recent "Justice League: Crisis On Two Earths"...complete with adult humor, and stylized, and clear, action...that put the movies to shame.
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I never found that Batman frightening. He seemed pretty tame, honestly. He didn't seem like he was constantly having to hold himself back from murder. I DO get that feeling from Bale though, which is why I love seeing the Joker poke and prod at him, trying to unleash the murderer in Batman.
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Hearing great things about "Under the Red Hood" also. Supposedly very dark.
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Jul 15, 2010 5:06:28 PM CDT
"You don't really want to work it out. You want to be fooled."
by mattmanreturns
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Stupid multiple windows!
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I've 'convicted' myself? I made a reasoned argument and, REPEATED-FUCKING-LY, started sentences with "I THINK" and insert statements like "IT'S UP FOR DEBATE". YOU, on the other hand, make declarative statements as though what you say is indisputable fact. A good debate is fine, but when one side doesn't give a shit how well laid out the other side's argument is or isn't willing to see things from any other perspective, what's the point? Ya know what, you're right, everything you say is right, Kubrick's films are cold, TWBB is overrated, etc. Who really gives a shit... I shall not return!
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There is a recent Batman fan film that covers such issues as Batman questioning whether he has made the right choice by choosing not to kill, and the ending is quite bold. Yes, it is sloppy at points, and is absent the technical skill of Chris Nolan. I will give Nolan that, he has his bases covered from a technical aspect of film--I wouldn't be far if I didn't say that, so there it goes. I will look-up the name of the fan film, and you should give it a look. Again, it is sloppy at times, the fan film, but at other times, it is quite inventive and hard. It makes you wonder what it would have looked like in the hands of a proficient director like Nolan?
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Who says that I am right? I just have different view, and the truth of most things is always usually found in the middle.
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That is the name of the fan film.
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Why are you attacking me when you agree that The Prestige is vastly overrated? Well, my point is, all Nolan films that I have seen, are all overrated and hyped.
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With a statement like "I'm The Smart Person's Talkbacker", seems maybe you do know something about overrating and hype. I'd say you're the "hack" in this instance.
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Just watched this... that was intriguing. Cool to see a fan film that actually explores Batman's psyche. You might want to check out Brian Azzarello's graphic novel "The Joker" (its like $13 at Amazon), if you haven't already. Nice take on the Batman/Joker relationship, and some poor sap who gets caught in the middle of it.
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Your comment is over-hyped!!!
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I like how City of Scars, shows a young boy who chose a different, and shocking path...and action, than Bruce Wayne/Batman--the most immediate and perhaps, humane, choice ironically. So, who really is the ultimate hero/villain in the end?The Joker graphic novel sounds great, I'll check it out!!! Thanks for recommending it.
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Please stop using this essay writer's cliche. God, please stop it.
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Yeah having a young boy do what Batman could not is fascinating. I also like the way the kid does it... without even flinching... it's almost as if the kid realizes it's simply the logical choice to put an end to this guy right now. You can see how that would shake Batman to his very core. As you indicated, it's a better concept than its ultimate execution, but they're definitely onto something there.
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*SPOILER*
The fun part is catching the double Inception here. The point where in reality Cobb decides to let himself be "conned" by Saito and his promise to "send him back home."
As you know, the movie set its rules about planting an idea in another's head: You can't, because that person will always know that idea came from someone else. This is why Fischer had to be taken to a sublevel in the dream within a dream, within a dream - to make him believe the idea to refuse his inheritance, was his own.
After the failed attempt at stealing Saito's secret (which we learn to have been just a test/audition anyway), Nash (first architect), rats everyone else out to save himself. This is when Saito is waiting for Cobb and Arthur in the helicopter. And this is when Saito dangles the carrot that Cobb can't refuse.
If you recall, Cobb asks for a guarantee that Saito can make good on his promise, but Saito cannot. And what Saito says next, "I'm asking you to take a leap of faith" ( also repeated multiple times by Mal), is the key line where Cobb knows this to mean that Saito will plant the idea in Cobb's mind that he can go home again.
Cobb's first attempt at inception was on his wife. And upon returning to reality, it was what clouded her ability to differentiate the dream world from the real world. The inception worked too well. And it was this guilt that Cobb carried, that he tried to lock away in "the basement."
It is important to note that Mal can't be a part of home anymore.
The paradox here, is where Cobb has to first erase his projection of her - she was already a corrupted idea (a parasite) running amuck and sabotaging his and anyone else's dreamworld he was in. He needed to let her go. His children however...he would never look at their faces, he didn't want to corrupt the idea of them - he kept his memory of them pure.
Now fast forward to where Cobb is when he speaks to the old Saito - he is in limbo, the level of pure subconscious. This is where Cobb has the idea implanted that he can go home again.
This is why upon returning home, his children look exactly the same and are even wearing the same clothes and in the exact position he has always seen them in his (and others) dreams throughout the movie. Except now, he can see their faces again - because he believes he is finally home. -
I think Christopher Nolan was playing Metal Gear Solid in those ten years he was writing Inception.
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St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Joe Williams
Christopher Nolan's "Memento" was a movie-lover's dream come true, a puzzle that was engaging both intellectually and emotionally. But his Inception is a wake-up call, a blaring reminder that cheap tricks can't compensate for personal investment.
Philadelphia Inquirer
Steven Rea
Stymied by a clunking script, crammed with expository exchanges and urgent blather.
The New York Times
A.O. Scott
Though there is a lot to see in Inception, there is nothing that counts as genuine vision. Mr. Nolan’s idea of the mind is too literal, too logical, too rule-bound to allow the full measure of madness -- the risk of real confusion, of delirium, of ineffable ambiguity -- that this subject requires.
Chicago Reader
J.R. Jones
Inception delivers dazzling special effects and a boatload of stars, but it sags and eventually buckles under the weight of its complicated premise.
Salon.com
Andrew O'Hehir
Nolan establishes a fascinating world, loaded with trapdoors, symbols and hidden secrets, and then squanders the opportunity on an overpriced "Twilight Zone" episode.
New York Magazine
David Edelstein
Inception manages to be clunky and confusing on four separate levels of reality.
Village Voice
Nick Pinkerton
It's obvious that Nolan either can't articulate or doesn't believe in a distinction between living feelings and dreams--and his barren Inception doesn't capture much of either.
Movieline
Stephanie Zacharek
Everything he (Nolan) does is forced and overthought, and Inception, far from being his ticket into hall-of-fame greatness, is a very expensive-looking, elephantine film whose myriad so-called complexities -- of both the emotional and intellectual sort -- add up to a kind of ADD tedium.
New York Observer
Rex Reed
I'd like to tell you just how bad Inception really is, but since it is barely even remotely lucid, no sane description is possible.
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Since you saw fit to post this on two Inception talkbacks, you apparently think that a few critics not liking a movie is some huge revelation.
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Dreamscape, that is the movie...along with Dark City...and parts of The Cell, and The Matrix, and even The 13th Floor, that Inception wanted to be, and wants to be, but isn't. I'll tell you, Dreamscape didn't have much of a budget, but the story is brilliant, and that is its big special effect, the great story, and great script, therein. Dreamscape is about a guy who is a psychic, and he is recruited by the government to enter people's dreams along with another man who is a psychopath, but it turns-out that the government group that they are working for wants to use the program for assassinations, and they try to use it to assassinate the President. Dennis Quaid, our hero, must enter the president's dream and stop the assassin from killing him.Dreamscape has real high-stakes consequences that Inception is missing? Whether Leo and team succeed, or fail, it does affect the rest of us, thus, it becomes--one big "so-what" heist flick, with an ending that suggests all was for naught.
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-------- http://www.jordaner.com a leading worldwide wholesaler company (or ucan say organization). We supply more than 100 thousand high-quality merchandise and famous brand name products all at wholesale prices. Our company specializes in manufacturing from China,With more than 6 Years of experience. ------- http://www.jordaner.com
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i wonder will the oscars have any love for it tho
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Doesn't Harry have PJ's number? Call him and tell him , Tom Hardy as Bilbo
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Might as well call a spade a spade. Inception came at a bad time. Surprised Leo did this after Shutter Island. It's virtually identical.
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.... it definitely kicked multiple nested narrative asses on several fractal levels. Sets a new bar for action, psychological thriller, AND sci-fi movies. You heard that right. NEW BAR HERE!
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Just would like to know his view on IMDB's 3rd in their top 250 movie list.
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