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AICN COMICS REVIEWS SUPERMAN! CASPER! SEA BEAR & GRIZZLY SHARK! CTHULHU! & MORE!

#5 6/23/10 #9

The Pull List (Click title to go directly to the review) SUPERMAN #700 CASPER & THE SPECTRALS #2 X-MEN: LEGACY #237 MINDFIELD: AN INSIDE JOB #1 AVENGERS #2 BAD KIDS GO TO HELL OGN SEA BEAR & GRIZZLY SHARK #1 CTHULHU #1 Big Eyes For the Cape Guy presents GANTZ Vol. 10 Big Eyes For the Cape Guy presents IKIGAMI Vol.1-5 Indie Jones presents… CHEAP SHOTS!

SUPERMAN #700

Storytellers: James Robinson, Bernard Chang, Dan Jurgens, J. Michael Straczynski, Eddy Barrows Publisher: DC Comics Reviewer: Majin Fu

Hot on the heels of BATMAN #700, Superman’s seven hundredth issue delivers a far less cerebral narrative that ties up the War of Krypton, takes a look down memory lane, and finally sets up for the future!
I should preface this review by noting that I am not a religious Superman reader, but I am a fan. I am a huge fan of the Max Fleischer cartoons and the Christopher Reeve movies. I found ALL-STAR SUPERMAN inspirational, and I am still waiting on the last issue of Geoff Johns’ SECRET ORIGINS, but I have skipped the War of Krypton entirely. I felt, like Straczynski voices as a reporter in this very issue, that Superman has “lost touch.”
Luckily, you don’t have to be up to date on the War of Krypton to understand this issue. Anniversary issues have become a staple of the industry, so I have come to hold two basic expectations to such a book. First, they are targeted at fresh readers, so they’re a good place for those interested to jump on, and second, they celebrate the things that made these comics get to the point they’re at today. With Batman, Morrison focused mostly on his legacy and the passing of the cowl. With SUPERMAN #700, the writers focus primarily on his relationships with the humans around him…with varying degrees of success.
The first story benefits from a minimal plot based around one of the classic tropes of Superman, his romance with Lois Lane. Superman’s love life is a defining trait of his character, and an appropriate subject to open the book, but the execution is lacking. The last page of the story in particular looks terrible. Oh, and Parasite’s there so the blue boy scout has something to punch, but he never really gets to do anything. His appearance is generic enough that he could be substituted for any other lumbering goon without missing a beat. Bernard Chang draws some nice close-ups and some dynamic action, but the art lacks the oomph I have come to expect from an anniversary issue. Robinson and Chang’s swan song is ultimately a pretty generic affair that hardly adds anything new to Superman’s romantic life. It’s also a direct contradiction to Superman’s motivation in the last third of the book, but I’ll get to that later in the review.
The middle portion of this book mostly concerns Richard Grayson in an early meeting with the Man of Steel, written and drawn by Dan Jurgens. The plot is more akin to those you would find in an anniversary issue, and the art is classic DC.
SPOILERS AHEAD
And it’s chock full of nifty knowledge for the tykes! Remember kids, if you disobey your guardian to fight crime alone, Superman will save your rash ass from certain death AND do your math homework for you. Swell!
This brings us to the last portion of the comic. J. Michael Straczynski has shown a knack for effortlessly epic storytelling and meditations on modern mythology on titles like THOR and BRAVE AND THE BOLD, so I had high hopes. Much of Straczynski’s part of the story is dedicated to setting up Superman’s motivation for his walk across America in the upcoming “Grounded.” Superman’s revelation is inspired by what Straczynski refers to humorously as a “poor-me nutbar” who blames her hero for not being there when she needed him. Not only is this story a cliché that has plagued superheroes for years, but it doesn’t jive well with Kal-el’s earlier proclamation of love for Lois. Perhaps this friction between Superman’s love and his sense of responsibility toward the rest of the nation is something Straczynski will explore during his run.
Contrary to what the cover may lead you to believe, Superman’s supporting cast is mostly absent. Neither Krypto nor the Superkids make an appearance, and Jimmy Olsen appears in a grand total of one panel. This is not a criticism, but it’s worth pointing out if you consider these characters to be an essential part of the appeal of Superman. If an anniversary is truly a celebration of all things Superman, why can’t we see more of the lives he has affected? Even Lex Luthor’s presence is limited to a preview for another comic in the back of the book, which I didn’t even read. I am just speaking personally of course, but previews are not appreciated, and hardly serve as a good reason to raise the price of a book, especially when it’s a preview that appears in multiple titles. If I wanted to see a preview, I would seek it out online.
On a different note, does that full page of Superman and Robin in the second story remind anyone of a recent episode of “Venture Brothers”? Also, is Superman sulking across the United States really the best way to compensate for his recent absence from Earth? Furthermore, how is denying the incredible gift of flight ensuring you are doing more good for the people of Earth? These are the questions I can’t help but ponder while hugging my pillow in my Superman footie pajamas in the cold, cold night.
Honestly, this issue has left me a little cold, so I’m still on the fence about jumping on Straczynski’s upcoming storyline “Grounded.” If you have five dollars to spend, you’re better off giving your money to SEA BEAR & GRIZZLY SHARK instead. (reviewed further down).

CASPER AND THE SPECTRALS#2

Writer: Todd Dezago Artist: Pedro Delgado Publisher: Ardden Entertainment Reviewer: Professor Challenger

“Umm...Professor...? Are you sure this isn't going to, like...melt my brain or something? -- Eloise “Ellie” Essex
Waaaaaayyyyy back in November of '09, Ardden Entertainment came out with this really cool updated take on Casper the Friendly Ghost, along with Wendy, the Good Little Witch and Hot Stuff, the Little Devil. I wrote up a rave review of the 1st of 3 issues because it turned out, surprisingly, to be my favorite comic book of that week. Then I waited for the next 2 issues to come out. And I waited. And I waited. Then I decided that something must have happened and the Harvey license must've gotten yanked...or something.
Yet, here finally, is the second issue on the stands this week. I have no clue what delayed the comic so long, but here it is (and hopefully the third issue is on schedule to follow promptly). Rather than try to catch everyone up to speed with a rewrite of the basic premise, I will simply quote myself from 7 months ago:
“Ok. Here’s the basic premise. In the original Harvey comics, these character rarely if ever crossed over with each other. I think Casper and Wendy occasionally would. But for this new series, the folks at Ardden have conceived of a fun way to tie them all together with an almost FABLES-like idea of these different supernatural worlds all co-existing within our normal human world but obviously on some kind of different dimensional plane. The ghosts all live in 'Ghostburg,' witches in 'Witch Way,' devils in 'Deviland,' goblins in 'Goblin Gulch,' etc. These creatures are not necessarily malevolent but they have to regularly make efforts to scare us normal humans because our fear powers their 'fear-ometer' devices that help keep them all safe from a big bad monster they keep imprisoned by fear.”
The second issue is, once again, so well-written for a comic intended for the younger set, but clever enough for the adult reader to enjoy. Props to Todd Dezago for that. Pedro Delgado still knocks my socks off in this issue with his cartooning style and storytelling abilities. It's almost an angrier version of Amanda Conner-style. If that makes sense.
The characters are consistent with their histories but updated effectively for the modern day in both look and attitude. The three of them are drawn together because they need each other. All three of them feel like outcasts among their peers and are generally unhappy...except when they are together. Then they complete each other and can have fun and enjoy life...or death...or whatever it is they have. The point is that there is a good message about friendship and acceptance buried beneath the action and the humor. Plus, in the second issue, the “big bad” gets loose and our Three undead Musketeers are going to have to come to the rescue in the next issue.
Once again, a highly recommended comic book that is good for all ages...alive or dead.
“Prof. Challenger” is actually Texas graphic artist and lifelong reader of comics, Keith Howell. He really digs Green Lantern, most recently completed the cover art for the upcoming book THE WORLDS OF PHILIP JOSÉ FARMER, and has contributed award-winning art, design, and editing to a number of books and magazines. He occasionally updates his website at at profchallenger.com and welcomes feedback from readers, both pro and con, but if female please include an attached pic in a tasteful state of undress. Thanks for all the fish.

X-MEN: LEGACY #237

Writer: Mike Carey Artist: Greg Land Publisher: Marvel Comics Reviewer: Optimous Douche

The issue that was so fucking nice I read it twice. This issue…this whole series…has reignited a passion in me for the X-Men that burns hotter than a thousand Phoenix forces. This particular issue is kinetic, a living breathing experience that jumps off the page as the X-Men throw all of their last Hail Marys at the marauding sentinels from some time after tomorrow.
Carey and Land have created a piece that simply moves yet remains still. This issue is panel after panel of action, yet it never ignores the character moments that have made the X-Men such an enduring team over the years. Each battle is interlaced with such perfect character moments from old time friends like Douglock to newly anointed members of the X-fold, it was like watching the softball game issues minus all of the gay softball. The battles end as you would expect (oh ya, spoilers ahead scallywags), but you do seriously wonder if both the battle for San Francisco and the battle in the distant future will turn out OK. You know--the exact thing that a serial comic should be. Right from Granov’s cover to the last panel, Carey orchestrated and portrayed each character in their purest and truest forms. Oh ya, I kind of like Hope now too, the girl has moxie.
I’ve had a love hate relationship with Doug Ramsey over the years. Mainly hate. He was the Jan Brady of the NEW MUTANTS…there but sorta not. He then went on to become the Jar Jar Binks of EXCALIBUR when he fused with Warlock to form the microchipped monstrosity Douglock. Well thank “soulgodmandovefriend” Carey strips bare these archaic Apple IIE versions of Doug and makes his power really fucking formidable. Doug’s interfacing with the future Master Mold Sentinel’s CPU was cybernetic poetry not seen since THE MATRIX. These were some seriously fantastic dialogue bubbles as Doug gets assimilated and then ultimately turns the tide to frak MM’s hard drive. And there ends the battle for tomorrow. Not the danger…the battle.
In the here and now Land delivers some beautiful spreads of gunfire and carnage. Hope finally steps up her game to prove she’s more than Jean Gray’s doppelganger (she does sort of look like ol’ Marvel Girl, guys…sorry). There’s also a moment when she confronts Cyclops that was a pitch perfect exploitation and uncovering of Scott’s lack of people skills when he gets into hyper leader mode. Again though, it was perfect; Scott Summers is at his best when manipulating the X-Men in a genocidal game of chess. The battle in today is short lived, though. Once Douglock blue screens the Master Mold all of his minions crash like apps on an iPhone left out in the sun for too long. But wait, there is that persnickety last detail of some heavy-hitting X-Men left in tomorrow land.
And therein is my only objection with this issue and series. In an attempt to use the same time travel membrane that the Sentinel’s used to cross into yesterday, X-Force learns that only inorganic material can slip through unaffected. Yet, somehow, Cable is able to cross over. We always knew old glow eye had a few parts provided by Radio Shack, but his whole body? And what of the other X-Men, the ones that are more man than metal? Will they make it through? I’m OK with danger and cliffhanger suspense, but if it turns out Cable is a sentinel or some other kind of robot, and not the son of Scott Summers, I am going to burn my entire run of X-Men in effigy. I’ve never prescribed to comics needing to hold dogmatically to canon, but at the same point in time, continuity is what keeps us buying several hundred issues of this stuff. Plus, how could they leave X-Force in the future? Since Wolverine is one of the characters left behind, Marvel would have to hire a whole team of writers to start the FUTURE AVENGERS, FUTURE UNCANNY X-MEN, FUTURE X-MEN LEGACY and FUTURE X-FORCE. I mean, the guy can’t be on just one fucking team--it’s a sacrilege. He’ll get bored, right?
Nasty little fanboy nits aside, I pity the team that has to jump on these books once “Second Coming” draws to a close. This is one series that will be very very hard to live up to.
Optimous has successfully blackmailed fellow @$$Hole BottleImp into being his artist on Average Joe. Look for Imp's forced labor on Optimous brain child in mid-2011 from COM.X. Friend Optimous on FaceBook to get Average Joe updates and because ceiling cat says it's the right thing to do.

MINDFIELD #1: AN INSIDE JOB

Writer: J.T. Krul Art: Alex Konat Publisher: Aspen Comics Reviewer: Mr. Pasty

Imagine you were on your couch watching a television show that you were starring in while experiencing consciousness in both places simultaneously. That’s one of the more intriguing aspects of our dreams as we get the benefit of playing ourselves in addition to the role of “Watcher.” But what if you could somehow achieve that impossible feat of dual consciousness outside of the dream state? The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) believes you can in MINDFIELD, an interesting look at the common themes associated with extrasensory perception (ESP). What would the CIA do if it could send agents into the field armed with the gift of sight beyond sight? I’m sure the official press release would ramble on about the good of mankind and national security but you don’t need to be Jerry Fletcher to know that it would really be developed for something much more sinister. How do we know for sure? C’mon people, this is a comic book, the United States government exists for the sole purpose of employing devious men in dark colored suits.
MINDFIELD is a good offering that could have been great. When writer J.T. Krul forgets that he’s penning a comic book, this becomes a taught thriller with some brilliantly layered and complex themes. Unfortunately he seems to snap out of it just as he sets his hook and then blankets us with an obligatory action scene or dialogue that sounds like it was pulled straight from the writer’s handbook. There was far too much reveal in the opening act and I think it took a little of the mystique out of the narrative.
The CIA has tasked a small band of heroes (or anti-heroes, depending on how you grade their methods) to fight the evildoers of the world. They’re armed with the ability to see what cannot be seen by tapping into the thoughts and memories of their foes. Is the bomb that terrorist is carrying actually armed? Has the suspect in custody really committed the crimes he’s accused of? Our group of heroes already knows, and that gives them a tremendous advantage in the field. The only downside to “Project Cobalt” is that it requires you to swallow a government-issued pill to jumpstart your powers. I guess when you break it down it’s basically getting high and fighting crime. Or as I like to call it, my life’s ambition when I was a criminal justice major at Temple University.
But after years of being on the stuff, how do you keep track of your realities? How do you handle the power of seeing the deepest, darkest thoughts of the criminals you come into contact with? Without “blocking exercises,” which are required, it’s easy to see how madness would be a foregone conclusion. And it seems like it could be for Connor, easily the most appealing character in this story. In fact, I hope he ditches the rest of the group because the more time he spends as the central focus, the better this book gets. That brings me to the illustrations, and boy does Alex Konat have the gift of drawing eyes. It must be difficult to pencil a comic book void of the traditional heroes and villains. No giant monsters or exotic locales, just people, people and more people. Konat makes up for it by giving us a plethora of Easter eggs (+1 for Butthead) and like I said, he can tell an entire story with his characters just by the attention he gives the eyes. The backgrounds and framing are all standard fare, technically competent and lucid, but these characters have souls.
So too does MINDFIELD, but based on issue number one it reads like a ghost that’s still looking for its body. If it finds it over the next few issues, we could have an early candidate for the 2010 @$$ies. AN INSIDE JOB is not without its share of problems, but the good parts elevate the mediocre high enough for me to recommend it. And I have a “sense” it’s only going to get better moving forward. That, folks, is some bona fide Mr. Pasty ESP at work right there, brought to you without the help of trance-inducing government pills. I save those for the weekends.
Web heads who can’t get enough of Mr. Pasty’s word vomit are encouraged to watch him operate as Nostradumbass over at MMaMania.com here. Love, hate and Mafia Wars requests should be directed here.

AVENGERS #2

Writer: Brian Michael Bendis Art: John Romita Jr. & Klaus Janson Publisher: Marvel Comics Reviewer: Johnny Destructo

Ok, so as I suspected, right now I'm eating a big ole platter of venomous vowels and caustic consonants as I ingest the words from last month's review. I wasn't as keen on the first issue of AVENGERS, or most of the Heroic Age books at first, but this issue was kinda fun. I'm a sucker for alternate timelines and the various futures of comic characters, so this issue got me pumped for a hefty helping of awesome.
The time-stream is apparently busted all to hell and that ain't good. We discover this thanks to the help of new recruit Noh-Varr AKA Marvel Boy, in his newly redesigned mess of a costume. What he lacks in fashion sense and ability to understand human sarcasm though, he makes up for with his ability to create the amazingly convenient Space-Time Continuum Viewer doohickyjabob. With this aforementioned doohickyjabob (for reference, see last sentence), we get a peek at some of our more prominent alternate futures, like A-Next with Spider-Girl, 2099, Days of Future Past, so on and so forth. I'm hoping this wasn't just a glimpse and that we'll get to return to these timelines during this story.
We also get a guest appearance from Wonder Man, who is made of energy or something and used to be a movie star or something but now has a crewcut hairdo and I don't care cause I never liked him as a character runonsentence blah blah blah. He's pissed about some stuff that I'll let you read about and a bunch of angry sound effects later, he disappears.
I'm mildly curious about the double-page spread ending of this issue which showcases some alternate reality versions of some our most recognizable characters, and where this storyline is going. Sure it reads like a super-old Avengers comic. But for the first time, maybe I'm actually enjoying a super-old Avengers comic. My apologies, Bendisface.
JD can be found hosting the PopTards Podcast, discussing movies, comics and other flimflam over at www.poptardsgo.com, graphically designing/illustrating for a living, and Booking his Face off over here.

BAD KIDS GO TO HELL OGN

Written: Matthew Spradlin & Barry "Bazz" Wernick Pencils and Inks: Anthony Vargas & Chris Allen Publisher: BAD KIDS GO TO HELL.com Reviewer: Optimous Douche

Have you ever wondered what would happen if the script for “Poltergeist” decided to grudge-fuck the script for “The Breakfast Club” and didn’t pull out? Well, wonder no more, because BAD KIDS GO TO HELL is the demon seed that epitomizes this unholy act. It also takes readers on a cathartic journey of blood, splatter, and retribution against every jerk off you ever went to high school with.
To know the cast of BKGTH is to be American. They are stereotypes that have transcended to archetypes of the high school experience. The jock with more testosterone than brains; the weird girl who today always seems to be goth, wiccan, emo, fuck it — girls that go dark in lieu of any real substance to their personalities; the brainy girl who wants to be “oh so bad” if she could let her id suffocate her super ego; the kid from the wrong side of the tracks that is the most soulful of the bunch; the nerd; and the douche bag authority figure.
The plot, like the characters, is also instantly recognizable. Take one well-to-do school; plunk its plans for expansion on top of an Indian burial ground; devise a way for the world’s most deplorable students to end up in Saturday detention in the school library; then drain the blood of every character in the book…well, save one.
Derivative? Hardly. BKGTH only pays homage to Gen X staples, which most readers under 30 won’t recognize anyway. That’s a good thing, because it’s unnecessary baggage. Sure when the kids arrive for detention “Don’t You Forget About Me” was playing in my head, but Molly Ringwald never did coke, Ally Sheedy didn’t tried to fuck Principal Vernon and Emilio Estevez was not packing heat. That level of debauchery is squarely set in the post-Columbine era of high school life. And those horrible qualities are what make this pulp slaughterfest work. Seriously, if these were good kids, you might actually feel bad for them as they meet their end one-by-bloody-one.
There are some great twists and turns of fate as the kids meet their respective untimely demises. And just when you think you have everything figured out, it turns out you don’t.
To give away more would simply ruin the book. I can say I’m not surprised this book is being talked about for a movie. Vargas and Allen have a true panache for rendering the subtle cheesecake shots that are a staple of modern horror films, while TV writers Spradlin and Wernick have pretty much served up the storyboard and dialogue in a neat, tidy package. Basically, it would take a really really bad director to fuck this one up.
You won’t feel good about anything after reading BAD KIDS GO TO HELL, but sometimes it feels really really good to be really really bad.

SEA BEAR & GRIZZLY SHARK #1

Writer/Art: Jason Howard & Ryan Otley Publisher: Image Comics Reviewer: Majin Fu

If you saw that title and weren’t immediately intrigued by the cover, then this comic is probably not for you. It probably also doesn’t help that the interiors are entirely black and white, but this book might be worth your attention more than you think, and not just because of the thrilling premise. Image artists Jason Howard and Ryan Otley take a crack at writing their own stories, each telling a short yarn concerning a bear in the ocean and a shark in the woods, respectively. Right from the introduction by Robert Kirkman, it’s apparent that the creators aren’t taking themselves too seriously. You won’t find a scientific explanation anywhere other than “they got mixed up”, but the zaniness of the content combined with the token humor inherent to such an insane scenario justifies the more exaggerated five dollar price tag.
SPOLERS AHEAD
The first story is by Jason Howard. I guess it’s about a sea-bear, but as it progressed, I kept wondering how many more ridiculous ideas he was going to jam into the story. The story resembles a revenge tale, with sprinklings of conspiracy theory and science fiction for good measure. It seems Howard did not have faith in the concept of a bear roaming the oceans alone to carry his half of the book, so he also added a cyborg protagonist, military intrigue, a cult, mutants, and even a sea bear cub lusting for revenge. None of these additions are particularly outstanding or get much explanation, but I guess that’s partly the point. In fact, many of them draw away from the focus of the story, while the various additions to the plot make it even harder to gauge the tone of the book. I laughed at the last frame of the story, but I’m not sure it was meant to be taken humorously. Regardless, it’s written well enough, and the combination of so many concepts makes for a fun read.
You’d think with those two onboard, at least it’s going to be pretty book, and you’d be absolutely right. Having already worked on ASTOUNDING WOLF-MAN, Howard’s style is more tailored to drawing a shaggy bear, and he does a respectable job. Howard’s figures are somewhat simplified, allowing for him to deliver some solid action, but there’s nothing here that truly capitalizes on the awesome concept of a bear in the water.
The second half of the book is lacking the revenge spin, and is much richer in humor of the morbid variety. Otley keeps the plot deceptively simple; there is a shark in the woods stalking some hunters. It is also improved by the focus on the shark as a hunter, giving the tale a b-movie vibe, and pages of uproarious gore. Early in the story, a hunter’s son is bitten in half. After his father cauterizes the wound in a campfire, Stumpy’s lack of a lower half becomes a potent source for comedy right up until the last page of the book. It’s gruesome, but it’s always done with a dark sense of humor I found refreshing after reading so many stoic superhero books.
END SPOILERS
Otley’s style is slightly cartoonier here than his work on INVINCIBLE, with exaggerated facial expressions and some truly inspired page layouts and imagery. The shark’s method of travel throughout the forest is never explored, making for some very funny scenarios, including several pages showing victims in their before and after stages. The morbid humor is displayed with a visual flair that takes advantage of the novelty of a shark out of water, and helps to keep the story in the realm of light-horror.
The dispute between bear and shark, and which one could eat the other, is an ancient one which humans have deliberated upon for ages. While SEA BEAR & GRIZZLY SHARK can’t offer a definitive answer to that question, it does provide a peek into the mysterious lives of these noble killers, and we are all wiser for it. For five dollars, you’re essentially paying for two comics with exceptional art and a wildly unique story you simply won’t find anywhere else. Check this book out.

CTHULHU #1

Written and Drawn by: Various Artists Published by: KettleDrummer Books & Diabolo Ediciones Reviewer: BottleImp

I’m an unabashed H.P. Lovecraft junkie. Slap the words “Lovecraft,” “Cthulhu,” or “Yog-Sothoth” on book cover, comic or just about anything else from action figures to prophylactics and I’ll lay my hard-earned greenbacks down faster than you can say, “Iä!” So when I saw this trade emblazoned with the name of Lovecraft’s watery creation, ornamented with a writhing, tentacled monstrosity, and promising adaptations of Lovecraft, William Hope Hodgson “and other terrifying nightmares,” I grabbed it without a moment of hesitation. Once I broke free from my esoteric trance I was able to actually flip through this book—turns out that CTHULHU is a black & white Spanish language anthology, this trade collecting English translations of the first few issues. Like all anthologies, the quality of work within varies, but I was pleasantly surprised to find the majority of the work engaging and effective.
The anthology leads off with probably its strongest story, “Darkness,” written and drawn by Pepe Avilés. Narrated by the last surviving member of a fishing expedition, “Darkness” serves up a glimpse of Lovecraftian horror told in bold, cinematic strokes. Avilés also serves up a moody tale called, “The Warning,” an interesting twist on the old “hitchhiking girl by the side of the road who turns out to be a ghost” urban legend. “The Warning” lacks the punch of “Darkness,” but it’s an effective story nonetheless. Other chapters of note include Lovecraft’s “The Picture in the House,” adapted by Carlos Lamani, “In Me,” a twist on the werewolf legend written by Álex Ogalla and illustrated by Salvador López, and “The Session,” a quick stab of a chiller written by Ogalla and illustrated by Karen Sellés.
There are also a few examples of great, macabre art that convey the intended mood with little or no story. Toni Fejzula’s inkwash drawings create an eerie gloom in his three-page story, “The Well.” Enrique Corominas channels the technique of Gustave Doré, the visceral quality of Ian Miller and the morbid imagination of Hieronymus Bosch in his nightmarish illustrations for “The Songs of Maldoror.” And Javi Santonja shows a mastery of the pen & ink medium in his “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Jack,” posing the hypothesis that Robert Louis Stevenson’s classic tale came to him as a premonition of the Jack the Ripper killings.
It’s not all straight horror, though—some levity is provided with Ángel Rodriguez’s “Gothicómicos,” lighthearted one-panel cartoons in the manner of “The Far Side,” and “Young Lovecraft,” written by José Oliver and drawn by Bart Torres, a look at our favorite writer as a morbid little child drawn very much in the Roman Dirge vein.
There’s only one aspect of this trade that I would call negative, and even that’s my being super-nitpicky, but sometimes the writing feels a little clunky. But since that problem follows nearly every story here, I’m guessing that it’s due to the problems inherent in translating from one language to another. Even with the occasional awkward script issues, CTHULHU more than lives up to the qualities embodied by its chosen title. And it’s only ten bucks for ninety pages, to boot! Fellow fans of fright should check their local comic shops for this imported gem of some of the best serious horror comics in recent publication.
When released from his Bottle, the Imp takes the form of Stephen Andrade, an artist/illustrator/pirate monkey painter from the Northeast. You can see some of his artwork here. He’s given up comics more times than he can remember. But every time he thinks he's out, they pull him back in.

Manga Spotlight: GANTZ Volume 10

By Hiroyo Oku Released by Dark Horse Reviewer: Scott Green

Though I'm occasionally tempted to be pulled back in, I'm going to say that I've learned to stop worrying about whether Oku is going to begin deconstructing his subject in earnest, and love GANTZ.
The decisive break from wondering if GANTZ would turn its attention to mental rather than visceral instigation came when it became unmistakably apparent that, at this point, the manga is feeding the wish fulfillment fantasies of its guy audience to a staggering extend rather than subverting it. Where it once got mileage out of hugging onto a notion of reality with nasty consequences, it's leaped off the rails. Particularly in regards to his relationship with the opposite sex, the main character is now reaping benefits for his participation in GANTZ 's action. The fact that bits seem to resonate around larger implications go along with Oku's provocateur tendencies. But, really, GANTZ has crossed a line where it's become apparent that it is not ideology or consideration driving GANTZ. It's simply committed to agitating and exciting the reader.
It's just that the manga is so full out... and that I do enjoy trashy, violent manga, that I have to appreciate rather than condemn GANTZ.
Ever see “Drunken Master”? Jackie Chan's adversary, Hwang Jang Lee as Yan Ti San, had an attack called the Devil's Shadowless Hand where he'd flash his digits in front of Jackie's face, and follow the quick burst of motion with a solid strike. Gantz advances with a similar MO. Even when it's not in the midst of something devastating, it's advancing with something attention grabbing to set up the big crush.
Teen malcontent Kei Kurono is given the opportunity to assert himself when he's plucked from the moment of his premature death and outfitted to play out lethal video game-like scenarios on the streets of Japan. These level-like sorties resolved into complete cluster you-know-whats. He was matched with yakuza, stars and politicians. He was matched with grannies, and low rent toughs. And he's been paired with people who actually seemed prepared...various varieties of martial artists, a sniper, a military geek, etc.
If Oku was credibly developing the implications of GANTZ, it would be interesting to try to put together a thesis regarding these support crews.
Volume 10 is more wave than it is strike, setting up the next team to go out with Kurono. This latest group to be developed is distinguished from the previous by several factors.
The early part of the manga reflected Kurono's misanthropy. The people he dealt with were, for the most part, the dull, corrupt, weak people that he believed populated the world. As the manga has progressed, he's been lightening up a bit. While still chilly, he's developed some attachments. Similarly, the latest group are getting cast in a more favorable light than previous ones. Maybe they will not be long for this world, but Oku is encouraging the reader to want them to fight and survive, and not just get chewed up and spit out in a graphic spectacle.
The layer of fiction in GANTZ had been that real-ish, regular people were given guns and black spandex outfits and sent to go kill and be killed by aliens in a recognizable urban conflicts. Again, GANTZ has come off the rails. A subthread of the manga had been really rage-inducing male dominance rituals/bullying going on in the background, occasionally percolating up to bother Kurono. It was presented as life ruining/traumatizing hazing that the hero was able to swat down with the help of his Gantz toys. From this soup of testosterone, GANTZ has summoned characters more routed in fiction than reality.
I can point to few manga that can be as damaged by spoilers as GANTZ. Revealing specifics is actually apt to ruin the fun. To dance around that, I will say that some of these folks are pulled from fight media, and others are a bit Stephen King-ish. Curiosity is directed to the same questions that applied to previous groups. What's going to happen when these people who have credibly believed that they live in a reality safe from aliens and things that go bump in the night are put into kill or be killed situations with monsters ready to eviscerate them? Part of this question is still phrased the same way it was when Kurono was paired with grandmothers and sickly politicians; what will their reaction to the threat be? But, increasingly, the second part of the question has become, what happens when Kurono and company step up to the challenge? With that becoming an operative factor, the confrontations have become recast as brutal action rather than brutal horror.
I've had to reset my expectations for GANTZ. Oku simply isn't engaging what the early manga looked like he might be, and that narrows the appeal of the provocatively shocking work. If you're looking for more than a gratuitous display of flesh and blood in a manga, definitely pass on GANTZ. Conversely if the notion of the most unapologetically guy oriented manga on the market appeals to you, GANTZ is a must see.
Scott Green has been writing for AICN ANIME for over nine years. If you like what you see here and love anime & manga, be sure to check out his latest AICN ANIME column every week on AICN.

Before I get to this review I’d like to mention that I’ll be checking out the Anime Expo in Los Angeles this Saturday. So if anyone has anything they’d like the AICN comics gang to check out feel free to drop me a line here.

IKIGAMI Vols. 1-5

Written and Illustrated by: Motoro Mase Published by: Viz Signature Reviewed by: superhero

I went through a period where I was just absolutely fascinated with any and every Japanese comic I could get my hands on. If it was from Japan I had to get a look at it. It seemed like the Japanese were just doing things that American comics would never even think of. Manga was an incredible breath of fresh air in a comic world that had just gone completely stale. As time went by the market became oversaturated with tons of comic material from Japanese shores and it wasn’t long before it became hard to find anything that just wasn’t strictly geared towards teenage girls or boys and the stuff that Tokyopop and other manga publishers were pushing out became as stale and uninteresting as what their American counterparts had been producing.
But every once in a while there comes a manga that stands out among the overpopulated shelves of the local Borders or the stuffed racks of the local comic shop. In recent years it’s been books like MONSTER, FIREFIGHTER DAIGO OF FIRE COMPANY M, BATTLE ROYALE or 20TH CENTURY BOYS that have captured my attention. Well, this year, my hands down number one comic book discovery is IKIGAMI: ULTIMATE LIMIT.
IKIGAMI is the story of a society a bit like the one from BATTLE ROYALE. It’s set in an unnamed future where the government has decided it needs to take drastic steps to keep the populace in line. In IKIGAMI the government has decided that in order to teach its citizens to value life it has to instill an appreciation of life. In order to do so this future regime has instituted a forced immunization program in which a tiny percent of the population is injected with a nano-capsule that will kill a random person when they reach between the ages of 18-24. When it’s you’re time to check out the government gives you twenty-four hours notice and that’s it. The indiscriminate nature of these deaths are supposed to instill a gratefulness for life in the general populace so that every moment is seen as one to be treasured, one to be used to its maximum potential. No time should be wasted because at any moment it could be your turn to go.
Sure, it’s a bit of a farfetched scenario but it’s not the way out premise that makes this book function so well. Essentially IKIGAMI is a sort of anthology series in which each chapter deals with a different person who’s just found out that their time is up and what to do with that knowledge. It’s a story that posits the age old question…what would you do if you had only twenty-four hours to live? It answers it with a series of masterfully executed comic book tales about regular people who’ve finally been backed into a corner to decide…what are you gonna do with the rest of your life? Or what did it all mean in the end? Creator Motoro Mase is a fantastic storyteller whose artwork and characterization make each vignette a powerful and gut wrenching read. In each chapter we are introduced to a new group of people whose circumstances are decidedly different but who are all faced with the same decision to make: what do I do with my last day on earth? Do you take vengeance on those that wronged you? Do you take the time to do something valuable for your family or society? Do you just have a nervous breakdown? What? It’s some seriously compelling stuff and I don’t think I’ve read a comic book in recent memory (besides MONSTER) that kept me on the edge of my seat as much as IKIGAMI did. Each segment is a terrifically told little tale that sticks with you for a while after you’ve read it. This is comic book storytelling at its best and I cannot recommend it highly enough. IKIGAMI is a masterwork in the manga world and it’s one I’m looking forward to reading more of as it continues. Bravo!
Discovered as a babe in an abandoned comic book storage box and bitten by a radioactive comic fan when he was a teenager, superhero is actually not-so mild mannered sometime designer & cartoonist, Kristian Horn of Los Angeles, California. He's been an @$$hole for three years. Some of his work can be seen at www.kristianhorn.com and check out his blog at www.parttimefanboy.com.

More indie treats for you, served by your faithful indie chef, Ambush Bug. Enjoy these fixin’s from the edge of the periphery of graphic storytelling.

THE IMAGINATION MANIFESTO Vol.1 Bluewater Comics

This is a truly impressive piece of work. A modern day witch is hired to hunt monsters in this first volume of THE IMAGINATION MANIFESTO. Though the tone is deathly serious, I had a blast as the creator known as GMB Chomichuk mixes media to deliver a wonderfully imaginative and original comic book experience. I loved every beautifully rendered page which mixes text with word balloons with photo-refs with drawings. On top of it all, Chomichuk is a pretty great writer, slowly doling out just enough info about these beasts the witch named Endswell battles and bathing the monstrosities in shadows that caused the hairs to raise on my neck. The battle with the bug-like wyvern was about as intense as they come, not necessarily because of what you see, but what you don’t. And the monstrous giant at the end of the book has me itchin’ like a fiend for the next installment. This book is something worth seeking out for the amazing art, original concepts, and truly memorable presentation. A sure fire winner, this one is!

PRINCESS LUCINDA #0 Channel M

A little witch wreaks havoc on any human who crosses her path is pretty much the premise of this introductory issue of PRINCESS LUCINDA. She’s an otherworldly twelve year old who is all attitude with a penchant to turn humans into animals, inanimate objects, whatever her wicked little brain comes up with. This issue is a hodge podge of fun as we follow some of the Princess’ victims, now turned to frogs as they lament about having crossed paths with Lucinda. There’s also an equally sadistic meeting in a coffee shop that ends badly. All in all, this issue does a great job of introducing the comics world to a new wicked little girl. Good luck to the makers of this comic. So far so good.

REED GUNTHER #4 www.reedgunther.com

This time on REED GUNTHER, BEAR RIDING COWBOY, Reed and his faithful bear head to the big city in search of monsters. The question is, is that search successful? Does a bear shit in the woods? Well, only Reed Gunther and the bear he rode in on know the answer to that one. One thing I do know is that there’s a whole lot of fun to be had with this comic that never takes itself too seriously. With Secret Agent Mundy fixin’ to break up the team, Reed and his bear have a lot of danger to face. Plus quiver at the menace of Frog Ape!!! It’s another issue chock full of great stuff from Shane and Chris Houghton. Plus this issue sports a ton of pin ups by some very talented artists.
Ambush Bug is Mark L. Miller, original @$$Hole / wordslinger / reviewer / co-editor of AICN Comics for over nine years. Check out his ComicSpace page for his entries in Cream City Comics’ MUSCLES & FIGHTS VOL.3 and MUSCLES & FRIGHTS VOL.1 anthologies. Bug was interviewed here & here (about AICN Comics) and here & here (on his VINCENT PRICE PRESENTS: THE TINGLER comics). Bug’s latest comic is VINCENT PRICE PRESENTS #21: WITCHFINDER GENERAL (available in May’s Previews Order # MAY100828) on sale in July. Fanboy Radio recently interviewed Bug about it here. Bug was also interviewed here & here about his upcoming original vampire miniseries NANNY & HANK (available in June's Previews Order #JUN100824) due out in August.

AVENGERS #2 Marvel Comics

Ok. The suck continues and I jump off ship. Am I the only one here who remembers the book HOW TO DRAW COMICS THE MARVEL WAY? See the samples I'm attaching here on either side. AVENGERS #1 & #2 are chock full of panel after panel of drawings that look like they were intended for the boring version of super-heroes that “other” publishers do. I can't take it anymore. Make these heroes look like they are ready for action and quit goddamned just standing around picking their underwear out of their asses. Gah! The more I flip through this horrible comic the more I hate it. Somebody please yank Bendis off this title or find an artist that can somehow translate Bendis's horrible scripts into something exciting. It would also be nice to have Simon Williams/Wonder Man be an interesting character again. I don't know who this monstrosity is, but it sure ain't Simon. - Prof

DRIVER FOR THE DEAD #1 Radical Comics

It’s always good to compare a new comic to something similar and though there are shades of Cal MacDonald, John Constantine, and maybe a bit of the film ANGEL HEART tossed into this book, it reads as truly original. I was fascinated at the level of detail writer John Hefferman goes into when dealing with the realm of voodoo supernatural. I loved the Morgan Freeman-ish exorcist that started out the book and the exorcism that takes place goes into dark corners that I’ve never seen before in comics, let alone film. Leonardo Manco supplies the art, so you know two things; it’s going to be gritty as hell and it’s going to be fantastic. The art in this one is both as Manco adopts a more painterly style, but still injects grime and grit into every panel. Plus the main character is a bad@$$ driver who drives an even badder-@$$ier car, so it’s got that going for it too. Highly entertaining for those of you who like their horror ugly and fresh! - Bug

INCORRUPTIBLE #7 BOOM! Studios

This title has unfortunately followed the same arc of excitement that Waid’s companion book IRREDEEMABLE had displayed previously. Start off strong, diving right into the middle of the story, and then feel your interest fade as Waid plays catch-up with filling the reader in with the necessary backstory, leaving the plot to sometimes meander rather aimlessly. The good news is that IRREDEEMABLE has finally managed to build up its steam again, so I’m holding out hope that INCORRUPTIBLE will do the same. This issue gives us a little more detail about Max Damage’s powers and weaknesses, and there is a nice sequence of Max taking on a gang of white supremacists, but let’s face it, Waid has pretty much set up that it’s going to come down to the Plutonian versus Damage, and as a result everything leading up to that confrontation comes off as filler. - Imp

GREEN ARROW #1 DC Comics

This book is filled with ideas I love, but executions I don’t. I love the idea of Ollie being a hunter in a destroyed city that has been mystically turned into an enchanted forest. I love the idea of Ollie being an outlaw. And I love the idea of Ollie gathering a band of Merry Men in the next issue. The thing is, though, the execution was a bit clunky. There’s a boatload of exposition going on here between GA and a rescued damsel. And the damsel’s job is more than a bit convenient given that Ollie just happens upon her being almost assaulted in the woods. So what to do…what to do…I guess I’m going to hang out and pick up issue two to see who makes the cut to be in the Merry Men, but if this book doesn’t work out the kinks and offer as much dazzle as the ideas inside promise, I may not be around for long. Sweet fucking cover, though. - Bug

FANTASTIC FOUR #580 Marvel Comics

This series and S.H.I.E.L.D. are the most thought-provoking and intelligently written series from the mainstream publishers right now. There are two stories running through this issue. One is a blast of fun with the Human Torch and the Impossible Man running up against the “reformed” Arcade. The second is a much more important turning point story involving a life change for Ben Grimm, the Thing. Having read (or at least followed) the FF since...oh...1977...I found myself moved by the implications and meaning behind the last two pages. Hickman's entire run on FF is deserving of in-depth analysis, and if I ever have the time I will do that. For now, just take my word for it that this is smart writing and worth buyinig. - Prof

RANDOM ACTS OF VIOLENCE Trade Paperback Image Comics

Palmiotti and Gray cab do no wrong in my book. Even under the heavy thumb of DC, they are able to deliver some of the most ballsy comics published these days in JONAH HEX. Imagine what they could do if they could do whatever they wanted to? Well, imagine no more. I missed the two issue miniseries RANDOM ACTS OF VIOLENCE when it came out a while back, but I got to take a look at the new trade collecting the two issues and I can’t stop kicking myself for not reading it sooner. P&G are too smart to pass judgment on the age old question, “Does violence depicted in entertainment cause more violence?”, but they do offer a graphic and gripping story of a comic book about a serial killer and a group of rabid fans who will go to grisly lengths to prove their devotion. More of a comment on the comic book reading population than anything else, this book may piss off some folks who may think the writers of this book are biting the hands that feed them. But folks, the truth hurts. This is a comic to be read and discussed at length, which means it’s definitely worth picking up in my book. The crisp and in your face art by Giancarlo Caracuzzo and Paul Mounts is yet another reason this should be in your hands as soon as you see it on the shelf. - Bug

ARCHIE #610 Archie Comics

I rolled my eyes when I saw this advertised. ARCHIE ANDREWS: THE MAN FROM R.I.V.E.R.D.A.L.E.? I mean, c'mon. Right? But my little girl, darling of my life, fruit of my loins, blah blah blah...she has to have it 'cause she's an Archie nut. So, I pick it up for her last week and take a minute or two to read through it. And guess what? It doesn't suck. In fact...it's a pretty darn good spy spoof with some of the best straight-up Archie artwork I've ever seen. This comic was...dare I say it...actually....kind of....cool. The plot involves Archie and his super-spy look-alike cousin who works for a top-secret spy organization in battle against the evil forces of C.R.U.S.H. It even ties itself back into some old Archie tales from decades ago when they first played around with Archie as a super-spy by bringing back a recurring villain in the Archie comics...yes...we are talking about Mad Doctor Doom (emphasis on the “Mad” so as not to offend the lawyers at Disney/Marvel I'm sure). The truth is that the Archie Comics of late have been consistently enjoyable for what they are, but this one was exceptional. Check it out if you don't believe me. - Prof

X-FACTOR #206 Marvel Comics

When are they going to learn? Why the hell do they keep doing this? This is your typical “interrupt Peter David’s flow with a bullshit X-over” issue where David does what he does best (i.e. writing the hell out of these characters) while bending the world around them to fit editorial mandate. I just wish the Powers That Be would stop pulling David and his merry band of mutants into the world of crap that is the rest of the X-books. They are by far the worst issues of this continuously amazing series. The ending of this issue resounds though and despite having to tie things in with whatever crap with Cable and some kid named Hope, the final page is extremely satisfying for those who have stuck with this book since the beginning. - Bug

Editing, compiling, imaging, coding, logos & cat-wrangling by Ambush Bug Proofs, co-edits & common sense provided by Sleazy G


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Readers Talkback
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  • June 30, 2010, 8:54 a.m. CST

    Only?

    by RupertG

  • June 30, 2010, 9 a.m. CST

    Things have gotten weird around here...

    by Laserhead

    Strange reviewers... RIGHT ON with the cheap shots Avengers #2: JRJR SUCKS ASS. STOP PRETENDING HE'S A GOOD ARTIST. HE'S A FUCKING HACK. Right OFF with the full issue#2 review.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:02 a.m. CST

    Big Question of the Day:

    by JayLenoTookMyJob

    Why the f**k is Hot Stuff ORANGE now??!!???

  • June 30, 2010, 9:03 a.m. CST

    Second Coming

    by Joenathan

    Hey Optimus, I finally started it and you were right... it's pretty not bad. I'm really enjoying Cyclop's whole new attitude as a war leader.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:10 a.m. CST

    Question

    by Joenathan

    When was Simon Williams EVER interesting as a "character"?

  • June 30, 2010, 9:14 a.m. CST

    J.R. Jr. Is A Hack

    by Autodidact

    I bet it takes him like a half hour to draw some of his pages.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:17 a.m. CST

    Does anything actually happen in the new FF?

    by Laserhead

    Love Hickman's ideas, but FIVE straight issues of talky set-up is just lazy writing.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:18 a.m. CST

    Nemesis

    by Joenathan

    I'm having the same problem with this series as I do Irredeemable/Incorruptible... cool idea, but we were thrown in to late in the game and rely on a history that is mostly pastiche, so there's no emotional investment. And while it looks great, the pacing is too quick. Stuff just happens and since no of the characters matter, it all just kind of passes by. War Heroes had some similiar pacing issues, I think. They were both Big Idea. Big Stuff. No small moments

  • June 30, 2010, 9:20 a.m. CST

    Also

    by Joenathan

    SHIELD and FF... so good

  • June 30, 2010, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Half an hour?

    by Laserhead

    I was thinking more like ten minutes. Wonder why JRJR does so many panels in TIGHT CLOSE-UP? There's much less to draw that way.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Talking?

    by Prof

    Hickman's FF is so smart that I don't even notice it's just a bunch of talking...tho this latest issue has plenty of silly fun with Torch and Impossible Man. Bendis's talking heads tho make me want to hang myself.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Superman 700

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    I loved the Superman/Dick Grayson story. It was the kind of short but sweet story you don't get in comics very often these days, and was a great depiction of why the character of Superman endures - he's just a really nice guy. What other hero would do your maths homework for you? Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne both had great character moments as well.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:23 a.m. CST

    Excellent Joen

    by optimous_douche

    I'm glad you like man, it's truly why I'm here. Shed light on the good and hasten the bad back into the shadows.<p> Best damn event in a long time IMHO

  • June 30, 2010, 9:32 a.m. CST

    Irredeemable - Not as advertised.

    by V'Shael

    That book was sold on the premise of How do you go from being Superman, to Doctor Doom? It's not like someone flips a switch and you wake up evil...<br /><br />Well, bullshit. They haven't shown much of anything about how the worlds greatest most-loved hero turns to its biggest villain. Rather, there was a flick of a metaphorical switch, and it appeared to everyone as if it came out of nowhere.<br /><br />Very very disappointing series. Apparently it's a lot harder than it looks to realistically show how one good man becomes evil. Who could have guessed?

  • June 30, 2010, 9:32 a.m. CST

    When you're right, you're right

    by Joenathan

    I'm only a little bit in, so far, but it's well put together and I like the X-men/mutant reality in Marvel right now. It feels desperate and hunted again, "at risk" like the old days and you can tell that they're really working hard to try and show each character's unique personalities as the story barrels forward. I'm not ready to rank it AoA yet, as far as story cohesion, but it's damn fun, like the Fall of the Mutants.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:34 a.m. CST

    JRJR

    by Joenathan

    I hear he's really a great guy, so I feel bad saying this, but... damn, he is terrible. I remember the Punisher War Journal Die Cut Cover days and people creaming over his work, and just like Liefeld on X-Force, I just didn't get it. I didn't get it then and I don't get it now. The only difference is that people shit on Liefeld now and pretend like they never did like him. For some reason, maybe because he's a nice guy, JRJR still gets praise for his line-hatched block drawings

  • June 30, 2010, 9:37 a.m. CST

    FF and Shield

    by Joenathan

    Hickman's building to something. Secret Warriors was a slow starter too and now it's a web of intrigue. I'm really ecited to see where he goes, because frankly, as straight super heroes, FF bores the piss out of me, but as explorers of the weird and crazy, I am in and that is what Hickman is doing. He's setting up his board right now and I bet (or hope, but I'm pretty sure) that it will pay off big time.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:37 a.m. CST

    Orange Hot Stuff?

    by Prof

    That's just bad digital repro on the cover. He's plenty red in the interiors. :)

  • June 30, 2010, 9:37 a.m. CST

    V'Shael

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    "Apparently it's a lot harder than it looks to realistically show how one good man becomes evil. Who could have guessed?" <p>The Star Wars prequels are the greatest testament to that!

  • June 30, 2010, 9:41 a.m. CST

    How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    That was some pretty interesting stuff. I'm no comics artist, but I might have to try and find a copy of that.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Irredeemable

    by Joenathan

    See, but that's not even the issue. As far as I can tell, Waid hasn't even TRIED to show that journey, he's just showing the end result and the destruction of a bunch of boringly designed knock-off characters. He skipped the emotional meat and went straght to the pudding. Too bad, because it could have been seminal.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Just read the first two issues of Nemesis

    by Laserhead

    Meh. About five pages of actual story. And where's the McNiven who drew Old Man Logan? I want THAT guy's art.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:44 a.m. CST

    I made my feelings clear on nemesis

    by optimous_douche

    http://www.aintitcool.com/node/44471#1

  • June 30, 2010, 9:45 a.m. CST

    It's sad..

    by Prof

    ..when even MARVEL can't get their comics drawn the "Marvel" way anymore.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:46 a.m. CST

    How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way

    by Laserhead

    I read that book till it literally fell apart in my hands as a kid. I remember the little art inserts introduced me to a bunch of characters I'd never heard of. Like the Buscema page-sequence with Captain Britain and the Silver Surfer. What a great book.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:49 a.m. CST

    Prof

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    Marvel have now adopted the "Bendis Way" - lots and lots of space for dialogue balloons.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:51 a.m. CST

    Gunslinger..

    by Prof

    ...well I'm done with crapped out shit like AVENGERS #2. How come Alan Davis was able to take Bendis' awful writing and make AVENGERS PRIME readable? Because he still draws the "Marvel" way. urgh

  • June 30, 2010, 9:51 a.m. CST

    How to Draw Comics the JRJR Way

    by Laserhead

    Super-zoom close-up of blockhead. Make women look hideous. Draw two full issues before noon. Ka-Ching!

  • June 30, 2010, 9:53 a.m. CST

    "The Bendis Way"

    by Joenathan

    sells comics, kids. Welcome to the new world. AH-HAHAHAHAHAH!

  • June 30, 2010, 9:54 a.m. CST

    Laserhead

    by Joenathan

    No kidding on McNiven... I was staring at Nemesis #2 last night and wondering if it was the same guy

  • June 30, 2010, 9:54 a.m. CST

    So why IS JRJr. popular?

    by rev_skarekroe

    SOMEONE must like him. But he's so awful. Not even awful in a funny, Liefeld way. He's awful in a sad, Jack-Kirby-but-really-boring kind of way.

  • June 30, 2010, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Yeah, was that the inker or what?

    by Laserhead

    Because Old Man Logan is probably the most beautifully illustrated comic I've ever seen.

  • June 30, 2010, 10:09 a.m. CST

    Colorist?

    by Joenathan

    That's what I was wondering, but the art even loks different. I mean, look at Civil War, it looks the same... I don't get it.

  • June 30, 2010, 10:09 a.m. CST

    I submit that Simon Williams was interesting...

    by bottleimp

    ...back during John Byrne's tenure on WEST COAST AVENGERS in the late '80s/early '90s. That was when it was postulated that since his brain waves had been used as the basis for the Vision's personality, the Vision's love for the Scarlet Witch was a shadow of the love that Wonder Man actually felt for her. Of course, he ended up getting dicked around by her a lot (and not in a good way). It was also at this time that Simon thankfully ditched the mullet that he'd been sporting for a years.

  • June 30, 2010, 10:11 a.m. CST

    FUCK

    by Series7

    I want DRIVER FOR THE DEAD #1, my LCS had a preview copy last week and they wouldn't give it to me.

  • June 30, 2010, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Alan Davis vs. JR Jr.

    by bottleimp

    Davis has only gotten better with age-- just compare his early work on stuff like MIRACLEMAN or CAPTAIN BRITAIN to his middle stuff like EXCALIBER and THE NAIL and the work he's doing now on AVENGERS and FF covers. JR Jr, on the other hand, has let his hatched-linework style take over his drawings. Used to be there was good foundation under those marks. Now, not so much, in this reader's opinion.

  • June 30, 2010, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Bottleimp

    by Joenathan

    Good call. I will agree with that. That's when he and Tigra kind of had a thing going on. And I guess you could say he's...almost... interesting now as this washed up, never was, wanna-be actor, but he's just so lame. He's like the Lorenzo Lamas of Marvel Comics

  • June 30, 2010, 10:15 a.m. CST

    The Nail...

    by Joenathan

    great comic.

  • June 30, 2010, 10:24 a.m. CST

    JRJR, art and Avengers

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    I can never understand how Marvel can sometimes have crap artists on some of their biggest books. Surely there must be hundreds of better comic book illustrating type people out there who could do a better job and would give their left nut to work for Marvel? Same with DC. You'd think they be able to sort the wheat from the chaff and have amazing art for every issue. I guess you need people who can get issues drawn quickly, so maybe that factors into it somehow.

  • June 30, 2010, 10:25 a.m. CST

    I think...

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    ... I've moaned about this shit before. But my memory is terrible, so what the hell.

  • June 30, 2010, 10:29 a.m. CST

    Leniel Yu

    by Joenathan

    He's another one. Some of those New Avengers books were indecipherable (easy joke tosss up, Bendis haters)Man, he is bad. Ugh... <br><br>I remember waaaaaay back during the first Genosha storyline where Silvestri was behind and Rick Leonardi filled it. I was pissed. Silvestri to Leonardi? Fucking terrible. Ruined that story.

  • June 30, 2010, 10:29 a.m. CST

    Another Nail...

    by Prof

    ...an even greater comic.

  • June 30, 2010, 10:30 a.m. CST

    Alright, I'll be the fanboy-typo guy.

    by ArcherNX01

    It's Jean Grey, not Gray. (X-Men Legacy Review)

  • June 30, 2010, 10:33 a.m. CST

    I remember that X-Men issue

    by Laserhead

    Rogue and Wolverine hanging onto a train on the cover? Something like that?

  • June 30, 2010, 10:36 a.m. CST

    Leinil Yu

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    On smaller-scope, grittier stuff like Ultimate Hulk vs Wolverine where he had all the time in the world to draw it, his art was pretty awesome, I thought. But most of his New Avengers stuff was puke-in-mouth horrible.

  • June 30, 2010, 10:36 a.m. CST

    yep

    by Joenathan

    I was pissed. That was the only book I got, because my parents would only let me subscribe to one and it was still coming in a brown paper wrapper, so sometimes you'd get a wet comic, or miss one, which was maddening, but that one arrived, all bulbous nosed and ruddy and I remember just flippeg through and double checking the issue numbers. I didn't get any comic news, so I didn't know if Silvestri was gone for good or what... it was very traumatic-ish... I still irrationally hate that guy to this day.

  • June 30, 2010, 10:48 a.m. CST

    I subscribed to it too

    by Laserhead

    And missing issues sucked horribly. Though with Claremont's X-Men, you often felt like you'd missed an issue, when you hadn't. I remember the first Australia stories, and I was like, The fuck?

  • June 30, 2010, 11:04 a.m. CST

    Millar's talking Old Man Logan 2

    by Joenathan

    He hasn't pitched it yet, but I'm sure it will happen.

  • June 30, 2010, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Post Fall of the Mutants

    by Joenathan

    That was also when no camera could detect them because of whatever happened at the end of Fall of the Mutants... When did that go away?

  • June 30, 2010, 11:20 a.m. CST

    Old Man Logan 2

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    It's gotta happen! I loved that series - Millar at his OTT best.

  • June 30, 2010, 11:43 a.m. CST

    Skaar just wants some loving authority

    by SteadyUP

    http://tinyurl.com/2cogbsf

  • June 30, 2010, 11:45 a.m. CST

    I did too

    by Joenathan

    I want to see more of the world in general. I love me some What if.. dystopia.

  • June 30, 2010, 12:15 p.m. CST

    And here....we.....go....!

    by Thalya

    <>

  • June 30, 2010, 12:18 p.m. CST

    I will just say "I like pants"

    by Thalya

    And they need to kill Diana and let Donna take over permanently.

  • June 30, 2010, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Simon Williams was good in the Wonder Man...

    by superhero

    series in the early 90's. Not a classic series but it was fun. At least in the beginning...and I second that Byrne made him interesting in his West Coast Avengers run.

  • June 30, 2010, 12:25 p.m. CST

    Ugh...

    by Prof

    I'm not going to get in depth on the WW issue because I foresee an "Opinions are for @$$Holes" rant/essay in my near future on this topic but let me throw my vote for get rid of Diana and just give us Donna. Donna is infinitely more interesting a person and far more overtly sexual in appeal.

  • June 30, 2010, 12:40 p.m. CST

    It's time for a contest, @$$holes, and @$$holeohiles

    by mortsleam

    We all know that JRjr's art has become a blocky, wooden, rushed mess. Let's do something about it. In the spirit of the above-referenced "How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way," let's take a page or two from the Avengers and remix, phantom-edit, just-plain-draw-over JRjr's chicken scratch. Let's see who can really improve on the layout, staging, characterization and rendering. You have nothing to win but bragging rights and maybe a smidge of appreciation. I know BottleImp could do it. I'm just an underemployed graphic designer with a modicum of illustration talent, but I'm more than willing to try my hand. I think even rank amateurs should try. Except Leifeld. He's just too amateurish for words. I'm serious here, people. Let's all get accounts on Deviant Art or something and try this out!

  • June 30, 2010, 12:41 p.m. CST

    Gondor has no pants. Gondor needs no pants.

    by mortsleam

    Sorry, I have to say that anytime the word "pants" is uttered.

  • June 30, 2010, 12:45 p.m. CST

    As a Brit...

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    ... I thought that's all Wonder Woman wore on her bottom half - pants. Why can't you crazy yanks say "trousers"?

  • June 30, 2010, 12:47 p.m. CST

    New costume....

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    I kinda like that new Wonder Woman costume. Couldn't be worse than her old one anyway. But what's the deal with the timeline reboot? I've never read a Wonder Woman comic in my life, but does this mean she'll completly forget her time with the JLA and everything or what?

  • June 30, 2010, 12:57 p.m. CST

    That's what it kinda sounds like, Gunslinger..

    by Thalya

    Here's the JMS interview on the plans: http://tinyurl.com/35jage9

  • June 30, 2010, 1:10 p.m. CST

    That new costume aint gonna stick.

    by George Newman

    10(likely less) issues down the road she'll get caught in an explosion, the new costume is burned up, revealing the one piece underneath that she always wore "just in case." [read: sales dropped dramatically didnt get to see her Illustrated bare legs]

  • June 30, 2010, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Thalya

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    Interesting interview. Good luck to Straczynski trying to make the character relevant again. These things are often an uphill battle, but be interesting to see how well it does. I'll probably check out a few issues.

  • June 30, 2010, 1:20 p.m. CST

    The new costume

    by Laserhead

    Looks like the mid-90s bike-shorts costume. I vote pantsless.

  • June 30, 2010, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Ugh, you can't change Wonder Woman's costume that much

    by rev_skarekroe

    It NEVER works. Look at when they tried to update her women's-lib style in the '70s. Total failure, as this will be.

  • June 30, 2010, 1:27 p.m. CST

    JMS'll need all the luck he can get

    by Thalya

    The drastic is needed I agree.<BR><BR>Though, what's with this "going urban" trope? Hasn't it been played out years before now? I say, let Supes have the country, Bats have the city, Wondy can get the 'burbs!

  • June 30, 2010, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Peter David wrote a good Wonder Man

    by holidill

    He had like a 5-6 issue mini series that guested the Beast and they were training a girl who was on the verge of either going bad or good. That was pretty good,came out about 3-4 years ago? I can't remember. Getting old sucks

  • June 30, 2010, 1:47 p.m. CST

    JMS New York Times Wonder Woman piece

    by Jaka

    http://tinyurl.com/35jage9 Probably the same info, but I thought I'd pass it along anyway.

  • June 30, 2010, 1:48 p.m. CST

    Simon Williams was interesting

    by Continentalop

    Back in the 70s when he first got 'revived." The guy who had Thor class power and was nearly invulnerable, but was scared of dying. I remember him being very timid fighting the Korvac until he Captain America went toe-to-toe with the God-like being and was killed, inspiring Simon to fight. <P> That was a great Wonder Man moment.

  • June 30, 2010, 1:48 p.m. CST

    "I'm pretty tired... I think I'll go home now"

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    I like the idea of Superman Grounded, but I just can't stop thinking of Forest Gump. Will Supes grow a shaggy beard and get a whole group of followers? I can only hope!

  • June 30, 2010, 1:49 p.m. CST

    Yes Bendis does sell comics

    by Continentalop

    One of the biggest sellers to day...in an ever shrinking market. Hmmm.

  • June 30, 2010, 1:52 p.m. CST

    The Imagination Manifesto

    by Jaka

    Sounds great. I love mixed-media art if it's done well. I put it on my "check it out" list.

  • June 30, 2010, 1:53 p.m. CST

    rev_skarekroe, I agree

    by Continentalop

    Plus it is always a bad idea to touch an iconic look. <P> I will say, the keep trying to do different things with Wonder Woman - why not TRY and do what William Moulton Marston did with her when he first started? Might actually be whacky enough to work.

  • June 30, 2010, 1:56 p.m. CST

    SEA BEAR & GRIZZLY SHARK

    by Continentalop

    Has ASYLUM optioned this yet?

  • June 30, 2010, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Incorruptible

    by gooseud

    has been terrible. So much promise squandered.

  • June 30, 2010, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Wonder Woman

    by Joenathan

    IT doesn't matter, none of it... It's not like JMS will actually finish anything...

  • June 30, 2010, 2:17 p.m. CST

    Hey, Prof

    by Grandpa Bunche

    Archie as The Man from R.I.V.E.R.D.A.L.E. goes back as far as the 007/spy craze of the 1960's. I'm curious to see how it works now...

  • June 30, 2010, 2:17 p.m. CST

    I second Jaka

    by Thalya

    The Imagination Manifesto looks like something to study. Thanks for bringing it to light, Bug! That and A God Somewhere from last week.

  • June 30, 2010, 2:18 p.m. CST

    You're right, Continentalop

    by Joenathan

    and that is completely Bendis's fault too. Hmmm...

  • June 30, 2010, 2:26 p.m. CST

    Irredeemable and Incorruptible

    by Joenathan

    I almost wish someone would re-do the series, avoiding Waid's mistakes, because I bet the tale, properly served, would be great.

  • June 30, 2010, 2:31 p.m. CST

    Joenathan

    by Prof

    They should hire JMS. He seems to like just ignoring what's gone before and write his own shit and slap someone else's character onto it.

  • June 30, 2010, 2:33 p.m. CST

    Interview with JMS coming...

    by Ambush Bug

    I talked with him a bit today and we should have the interview up tomorrow.

  • June 30, 2010, 2:35 p.m. CST

    Prof

    by Joenathan

    Yeah, except I'd like to read the whole thing, so he wouldn't be a good idea

  • June 30, 2010, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Bug

    by Joenathan

    Did he leave the interview early and say that he'd be back later and then never came back?

  • June 30, 2010, 2:49 p.m. CST

    JMS on Wonderwoman; From Jaka's Link

    by Dave I

    "It's all part of Straczynski's attempt to give Wonder Woman a more realistic, grounded approach that contrasts with her still mythical background. He compares the effect to what Neil Gaiman did in Sandman." <p><p>It's not QUITE like what Gaiman did with Sandman. <p><p>"And while the changes to Wonder Woman may seem a bit overwhelming to DC fans, Marvel fans will remember another recent iconic character change written by JMS. After all, Straczynski was the writer behind "One More Day," the story that saw Spider-Man's history altered to erase his marriage." <p><p>Yeah, I'm sure THAT'S the comparison Straczynski was hoping for. <p><p>I can't say I'm bothered by this. I'm not really involved with the character of Wonder Woman, and this just seems like them trying something new rather than trying to UNDO something, this at least seems to have rules as well as some fairly well laid-out idea of what is going on and where she has to go to find the answer, and might result in her readjusting the time continuum or something. One More Day is something I fear I will have a grudge against without end as it was a total dues ex machina, a cop out on dealing with Spider-Man being married, and made no sense even by their crazy made up comic-book logic just so he can be perceived as accessible to young uns' and they can have him date different Marvel characters. Great. I'm NEVER letting that go. <p><p>But Wonder Woman with a new costume and trying to find her lost timeline? Whatever, go for it. <p><p>-Cheers

  • June 30, 2010, 2:50 p.m. CST

    Joenathan . . .

    by Dave I

    "Did he leave the interview early and say that he'd be back later and then never came back?" <p><p>Nice! <p><p>-Cheers

  • June 30, 2010, 3:02 p.m. CST

    Dave is right

    by Joenathan

    Time has shown that if not for the Justice League, Wonder Woman, as a character would have disappeared a logn time ago, as she has never really been able to maintain her own book for very long.

  • June 30, 2010, 3:22 p.m. CST

    So what's the Wizard 228 relaunch like?

    by hallmitchell

    Just wondering. I hope the mag has gone back to the future.

  • June 30, 2010, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Disagree...

    by Prof

    Wonder Woman taps a mythical archetype that resonates on a metaphysical level. The problem is that writers are afraid to tap into that. Perez was probably the closest for awhile but even he eventually turned her back towards more mundane stories...and lost the point.

  • June 30, 2010, 3:26 p.m. CST

    I 100% agree with Joenathan's sentiment

    by Thalya

    Just...Wondy's been in continuous publication since the Golden Age, primarily because of a rights contract between DC and the Marston estate (which ended around the time of Infinite Crisis/OYL): if her book wasn't in monthly publication, the rights would revert.<BR><BR>As a character, she certainly hasn't merited the continuous publication though. When has her book genuinely mattered?

  • June 30, 2010, 3:31 p.m. CST

    What possessed Jim Lee...

    by JayLenoTookMyJob

    ...to put Wonder Woman into some Rob Liefeld cast-off costume design from the early 90's??? What's next? Will she begin sporting extraneous pockets and pouches all over her costume and start carrying a ridiculously over-sized gun and bandoleer?

  • June 30, 2010, 3:41 p.m. CST

    I'm just saying...

    by Joenathan

    She's always worked grat on Justice League... not so much on her own.

  • June 30, 2010, 3:43 p.m. CST

    How about....

    by TedKordLives

    Wonder Woman and Wonder Man SWITCH COSTUMES?!?

  • June 30, 2010, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Wonder Woman needs to lose the stars

    by TheWaqman

    on her outfit. She's Amazonian, not some fucking lame ass Ms. America shit. Otherwise I think her new outfit looks decent, if she loses the half-jacket it's all good.

  • June 30, 2010, 4:05 p.m. CST

    We have no way to know...

    by Prof

    ...what would have happened to WW if the rights had reverted to Marston way back when. I submit that the core appeal of the character incorporates so many deep-seated aspects of human nature that we are uncomfortable facing (bondage, sadism, lesbianism, rape, androgyny, etc.) hidden behind the imagery of Western patriotism and imperialism that I submit the character may have exceeded anything DC has done with her by not being bound to the strictures of the DCU. Imagine Playboy publishing WW on her own in the midst of the 60s sexual revolution for example? Might make an interesting artistic series of illustrations imagining WW throughout the decades but without the DC connection. Did I just get inspired? :)

  • June 30, 2010, 4:15 p.m. CST

    Oh noes... You got something!

    by Thalya

    So Prof, you're saying Wonder Woman is truly a supervillainness force-fit into a superheroine mold?<BR><BR>Women are evil after all. And I'm being completely serious on that point.

  • June 30, 2010, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Come on

    by Joenathan

    No one cares about all that, it's just so obvious. I mean, I guess Garth Ennis has proven that there are still people out there that love nothing more than a "batman is gay" joke, but still: Wonder Woman: Bondage Queen barely had legs in the beginning and in the days of the modern internet, it has even less now. Which means we can only approach her as viable as a superhero and as a superhero... she's kind of lame and THAT is why her books always fail. That's also why she always worked great on JLA. She can run around there and be Iconic and not have to worry too much about the deeper character stuff.

  • June 30, 2010, 4:44 p.m. CST

    Remember...

    by Prof

    ...Hercules brutally raped Hippolyta. The Amazons were enslaved by man and the bracelets are supposed to symbolize their freedom and serve as a reminder of their submission. They are warriors in an androgynous way and usually killed any man that would find his way onto their island. And WW's boots were a gift from Hermes. The Hermaphroditic trickster god. Play up these mythical aspects of WW. Darwyn Cooke got her right in NEW FRONTIER. Build on that. You know? Corporate butt their heads out of it and let someone with an understanding of myth, like Alan Moore...or dare I say it...Grant Morrison...and just let them fly with it unrestrained and see what happens. But grounding her in the urban world is always a mistake. There is no mythical underpinnings there to resonate.

  • June 30, 2010, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Barely had legs???

    by Thalya

    Or hobbled by the Comics Code Authority? Or skip "hobbled", what if she potentially had her unifying characteristics stripped out because of that?<BR><BR>Overall, I tend to be down on Wondy as-is, but I think the ultimate expression of woman's power would be for a woman to not just endure, but afterwards shrug off rape like raindrops and a duck's back. Then rise up, wipe the blood from her mouth, and turn it around to annihilate her attacker.<BR><BR>The character of Wonder Woman adds a deliciously perverse twist to it by making her attacker Love Her.<BR><BR>But of course that's not anything DC would ever publish, probably not even as an Elseworlds.

  • June 30, 2010, 4:50 p.m. CST

    I loved SEA BEAR & GRIZZLY SHARK until...

    by JonQuixote

    ...I got past the cover. Ugh. What a mess.

  • June 30, 2010, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Thalya...

    by JonQuixote

    ... you scare me. Let's go out.

  • June 30, 2010, 4:58 p.m. CST

    Wonder Woman reboot: When does stuff like this ever work?

    by JonQuixote

    When do reboots like this ever take - grab an enduring character, keep the name and a couple elements and reboot the hell out of the concept and the history? Successes, anyone? Aquaman? Hawkman? Maybe BRAND NEW DAY, but that's still new (and I think anything good coming out of it is completely divorced from the reboot anyway). All it does is make her backstory convoluted and dull, and set things up for the inevitable restoration. *** WONDER WOMAN is never going to be all that popular as a title, just like you're never going to break sales records with NAMOR or ANT-MAN. However, if they do want to boost sales, they should simply add some big names as supporting characters. Throw HAWKMAN and HAWKGIRL onto Paradise Island as regulars. Don't skimp on the BATMAN guest appearances. etc.

  • June 30, 2010, 4:59 p.m. CST

    I really need to get the hang of

    by JonQuixote

    capitalizing titles and regular-case for characters. I'm all over the place. Where's the edit post button?

  • June 30, 2010, 5:06 p.m. CST

    Jon, you wouldn't happen to live near Philly?

    by Thalya

    They almost need her to take a lesser role on a team, different than JLA, and from that low point let whatever character notes they find emerge naturally, let them compel readers that way. Or not.

  • June 30, 2010, 5:08 p.m. CST

    Prof

    by JonQuixote

    I don't think the core appeal of the character fits into those elements. Maybe the core appeal of the character for her creator did, but she's well beyond that and has been for decades. And as I'm typing this out I see that I'm agreeing with Joenathan. Feels weird. But it's true. The bondage thing is an easy fall-back, but in reality it's gone, baby, gone. Now there likely is and should be some sort of sexual element to Wonder Woman as she currently exists, simply because it's somewhat inherent in questions of feminism. And for WW, there's always been a question of "what type of feminist is she?" A few years back, when I interviewed Geoff Johns for this site, he gushed about Greg Rucka's WONDER WOMAN and what a complex perspective he gave her, especially on issues like the abortion debate. And a few months after that, Chuck Austen took over JLA and in talking about Wonder Woman labeled her "the ultimate super liberal feminist" or something like that. Of course, it's easy to say one is smart and the other is retarded, but I think that a lot of people reflexively (and not necessarily wrongly) put WW into that Chuck Austen category.

  • June 30, 2010, 5:16 p.m. CST

    When is Adam Hughes's All Star Wonder Woman...

    by Thanos0145

    coming out? Does anybody know. That's the Wonder Woman title I'm waiting for.<p>JMS's One More Day and Brand New Day for Spiderman sucked. So he thinks a new shitty 90's costume and same storyline that fucked up Spiderman is going to work for Wonder Woman too?<p>How okayed this shit, oh Dan Didio did (DC's Joe Quesada).

  • June 30, 2010, 5:18 p.m. CST

    *meant who, not how...

    by Thanos0145

    need an EDIT button AICN!

  • June 30, 2010, 5:22 p.m. CST

    Wonder Woman as a visual icon...

    by Prof

    ...will forever be more than her published stories. Because she is so archetypal. She speaks to something deep inside everyone. Otherwise there would be no reason why she rose to the level of licensing importance that she did. The stories told clearly do not connect with the comic book audience in any big way. Yet she brings in a ton of money for DC through licensing. Which is part of why the costume is what's getting more notice than the dreck JMS is about to unleash on the character story-wise.

  • June 30, 2010, 5:32 p.m. CST

    B.S. As-is she is not archetypal.

    by Thalya

    She was just the only solo female superhero at the time and they needed some kind of brand to reach the female half of the aisle. And that (and Lynda Carter) is why she's known.<BR><BR>Anecdote? An apparel booth at the last con I went to: lots and lots of WW apparel on sale, a little bit of Batgirl and Catwoman and Supergirl. Guess what sold better?

  • June 30, 2010, 5:54 p.m. CST

    Actually Joe, I think it is Bendis's fault to a degree

    by Continentalop

    Or I should say depending on him for the financial and sales success of the company. He is a short sighted attempt at relevancy with modern audiences versus making a company that can attract new readers or keep casual fans. <P> I mean here is a writer who puts the most dynamic characters ever into scenes where all they do is talk. He writes stuff ONLY for the die hard modern comic book fan and nothing to appeal beyond that audience. Whether he is talented or not, he is bad for creating new readers.

  • June 30, 2010, 5:56 p.m. CST

    Actually Thalya I think she is archetypal

    by Continentalop

    At least she WAS archetypal if you look at the Golden Age Wonder Woman. She was Rosie the Riveter (practically literally) for the super-hero world, and I think that makes her very archetypal. Nowadays, I agree with you, not so much.

  • June 30, 2010, 6:05 p.m. CST

    I will say the Bondage thing is ONLY one aspect of her

    by Continentalop

    A big part, yes, but the other part was the concept of female characteristics being strong and worthwhile. That there was nothing weak about femininity. in fact, Steve Trevor constantly finds himself attracted to WW over Diana Prince. <p> Like I said, she was Rosie the Riveter, someone who said "Woman can help the war effort, and don't have to lose being women in the process." And Wonder Woman herself served as a messenger to women, saying all of them had the potential to be Amazons (remember, in the GA the trained girls to possess Amazonian Powers). It wasn't something you were born with, but something all women had the potential to be - a wonder woman. <P> As for her costume, I think touching it is a mistake. It is iconic. The problem is coming up with a rational for it, and the only rational that works for me is that it was made IN WWII so the US could tell right away who side she was. And I think you can either say Diana fought in WWII, or if you want her younger say her mom, Queen Hippolyta was the original WW (she was called Wonder Queen in the 50s, so she has a super-hero identity already) and Diana has taken over the mantle. <P>

  • June 30, 2010, 6:16 p.m. CST

    Wonder Woman's sexuality thing doesnt work

    by gooseud

    because she isnt sexual. Has she ever gotten any ass whatsoever, other then her token non-powered dude from the 70s or Supes in the Elseworlds futures? Is she significantly better looking then say, Power Girl? In fact, shes pretty much an ice queen. When you have a character who is intimidating to men, completely non sexual, and with nothing inherently interesting about her powers, guess what? No one is going to buy that book.

  • June 30, 2010, 6:22 p.m. CST

    There is nothing wrong with Bendis

    by gooseud

    As much as I enjoy ripping him (and he deserves it), hes perfectly capable, on the right book. Give him his little corner of the U and let him go to town. The problem lies with editorial, for handing over the reins of the Marvel U. I mean, what is Bendis supposed to do, say no? But he should no more be running an entire U then Millar should. Give Millar the Punisher and give Spidey to Bendis, and let em run. And keep Bendis away from Thor, for Gods sake, he cant write that character any more then I can bang Hayden Panetierre.

  • June 30, 2010, 6:27 p.m. CST

    Hmm. I beg to differ

    by Continentalop

    Going back to the Golden Age, there very much was a sexual angle on Wonder Woman. She was obviously a virgin (at least with men) who left the world of women because of her curiosity about men - Steve Trevor to be precise. <P> Wonder Woman in the GA always projected a physical desire for Steve Trevor, but she was unsure what to do. She was a woman with the sexuality of Bella from Twilight - completely confused.

  • June 30, 2010, 7:57 p.m. CST

    When TWILIGHT: MOONING COPS Makes $

    by Buzz Maverik

    ...mondo dinero as the biggest selling movie/book ever, is selling something really any indication of anything being good? This is in relation to Bendis ... whom I've actually grown to like but my point is still valid.

  • June 30, 2010, 8 p.m. CST

    I Looked At The FF In the Grocery Store...

    by Buzz Maverik

    ...Reed gave lecture, which was probably as boring as listening to a real one. Then Sue was in a bubble under the sea and she hadn't even been kidnapped by Namor/Krang/Byrrah/Tiger Shark. Franklin did some karate kid stuff which at least was doing something then I remembered that I needed to get one box of white taco shells and one box of yellow taco shells and ten cases of plain wrap beer because I was making lunch for myself. See, ya wanna have an FF comic, ya have Reed lecture Ben on the splash page as monsters swarm outta the Negative Zone portal and...

  • June 30, 2010, 8:03 p.m. CST

    See, Wonder Woman Is Beautiful But Not Hot

    by Buzz Maverik

    Hot women can be beautiful and beautiful women can be hot but the two don't necessarily go together. I remember this Venezuelan chick who lived downstairs from me in the late '80s who would get bored sometimes and....'scuse me. Gotta go...

  • June 30, 2010, 8:11 p.m. CST

    Buzz

    by JonQuixote

    Is the ContinentalOp your less insane alter-ego? Just because we don't talk anymore doesn't mean I forgot about your burning love for RED HARVEST.

  • June 30, 2010, 8:13 p.m. CST

    JonQuixote, the answer is no

    by Continentalop

    And I wouldn't be so sure about me being less insane. I just cover up my insanity with a little more rational words once in awhile. <P> Buzz likes RED HARVEST? Good taste.

  • June 30, 2010, 8:22 p.m. CST

    regarding the WW costume...

    by BooBoosDaddy

    I think it blows. It doesn't look like Wonder Woman. Superman's costume has remained relatively the same since 1938. Sure, there have been a few changes here and there, notably the S. And the same goes for Batman. the bat logo has changed, the length of ears has changed...but certain things have remained constant throughout time. if a little Venezualan boy or girl picked up a comic at his or her local shop/market/whatever they would recognize Superman and Batman. They sure as hell wouldn't recognize this. "Who is this new character?" Bad move, DC. And my wife is a die hard WW fan. She fucking hates this new look/origin.

  • June 30, 2010, 8:35 p.m. CST

    And to think...

    by rabidfnark

    Second Coming was the point at which I said, "That's it, I'm done with the cross overs!" Sigh. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. If it weren't for shitty luck I wouldn't have any.

  • June 30, 2010, 8:54 p.m. CST

    WW was well handled in the Justice League..

    by leo54304

    TV series. One scene had her in the beauty dept of a store wondering why women need those things. Another had her creating a new plant for her to give supes on his birthday. Little things like that help flesh out a character. Plus the crisis movie showed where her heart was on helping people. And in that movie she kicked some serious butt. People complain about the length but it was fun and the fight scenes were well done.

  • June 30, 2010, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Skip the Avengers and buy "Nefaria Triology"

    by leo54304

    Written by Shooter and drawn by Bryne. The Beast kills with one liners in first two issues.

  • June 30, 2010, 10 p.m. CST

    Jonathon Hickman

    by igregory

    is the biggest asshole I've ever met. Talked to him twice at Heroescon, complete prick both times. I was buying, and enjoying, all of his Marvel stuff, and dropped all of it as fast as I could get back to my LCS. Thanks for saving me 10 or so bucks a month. Long story short, bought a book from him for $20, then he refused to sign it, in case I wanted to sell it on e-bay. Just one example of the shittiness I saw come from him over the weekend. Jeff Parker, on the other hand, is one of the coolest cats you'll ever meet. Second time meeting him, awesome guy, and will sign any book with any cover you want. Did a Gorilla Man sketch in my Atlas trade last year in New York, not even by request. Buy his books instead.

  • June 30, 2010, 10:55 p.m. CST

    JMS doesn't GET Wonder Woman.

    by Thanos0145

    "The second reason for a big shakeup is that frankly, it's long overdue. Her look, her dynamic and the sorts of stories being told have ossified over the years. Other characters have had their image buffed and altered over the years, but absent the regrettable mod look of the 60s, Wonder Woman looks pretty much the same now as she did in 1941. The resultant question being, if you were to design Wonder Woman right now, as though she had never existed before, what would she be like? So there's the timeliness issue."<p>Wonder Woman like Superman and Batman is an ICONIC character. There is a reason why their looks haven't changed.<p>If a writer can't respect and build upon their mythology, then don't chose to write them.<p>An excuse like Spiderman is a hard character to write because he is married to Mary Jane. So let's change that.<p>I hope Superman's marriage isn't a problem for JMS since he is the new writer for Superman.<p>Here's the rest of the interview:<p>http://tinyurl.com/35jage9

  • June 30, 2010, 11:08 p.m. CST

    JMS

    by JonQuixote

    Catches a lot of shit and deservedly so. Is it really fair to lay "One More Day" on his shoulders though? I seem to recall him being very much in favor of the marriage and writing a very nice reconciliation issue shortly into his run. And, of course, he wrote ONE MORE DAY and then booked for DC. I think that's more on JQ than anything. Of course, AMS was pretty awesome following that, but as discussed, that's an "in spite of" more than a "because of" thing.

  • June 30, 2010, 11:09 p.m. CST

    The art on Avengers SUCKS? What did you expect???

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    They've got the two clunkiest artists around — John Romita Jr. and Klaus Janson — drawing it! Hire guys who specialize in scratchy, grungy art and drawing broken-nosed thugs and that's what you get. You want clean, slick art on Marvel's premier team of heroes, rehire Alan Davis or George Perez to work on the book again, or give the work to Olivier Copiel.<p>At least then, you might get me to actually pick it up and buy it!

  • June 30, 2010, 11:21 p.m. CST

    Continentalop

    by Thalya

    That is precisely my sentiment, better stated. Whatever she started out as, when the era of merchandising hit, she wasn't. Love the 'Rosie the Riveter' ref - nail, head.

  • July 1, 2010, 12:57 a.m. CST

    The problem with Wonder Woman...

    by Bootskin

    ..is that nobody has an effing clue about what to do with her (with the exception of George Perez, and maybe John Byrne for about 5 minutes when he was on her title...). Wonder Woman should be treated in the same way as Marvel's Hercules or Ares, or even Thor; An incredibly strong, mythical character. Sure, you'd have to have some "fish out of water" stuff in the beginning...but a good writer can make that work, and move beyond it. Rucka had some GREAT ideas with the character a few years back ( making her an actual diplomat...she had a minotaur for a personal chef...), but that was destroyed as well. Give her a strong Mythological background, make her an avatar of power sent by the gods to assist mankind (maybe a cabal of goddesses chose her?) throughout dark times and to be their champion on earth. This new JMS storyline sounds like retread 90's style "Heroes Reborn" bullshit. And yes, the "new" costume looks just like what she was wearing while Artemis had taken over her post back in the 90's. It hasn't aged well....

  • July 1, 2010, 1:03 a.m. CST

    And about JR. JR....

    by Bootskin

    ..He used to be the fucking man. He was an artist's artist, not unlike Mike Mignola, or FRank Miller, or eve Mike Allred (the kind of artist who's art style most artists adore, but some casual fans may not enjoy). I've noticed ever since he took over Uncanny X-men back in the 90's, and needed to push that book out rather quickly, he's adopted this horrible sketchy "style" and it's gotten worse every 5 years or so. If you go back to the 80's, and look at his Uncanny X-men or Daredevil work...this is NOT the same artist. THAT artist had a linear flow, and knew how to use shadows without succumbing to the tempatation of filling every space with hash marks. Look at his 90's work on Thor, Spider-Man, or Iron Man (80's-90's) THAT artist still had some vigor in him, even though he was getting a little "blocky" in his character design...it was still solid, with GREAT storytelling panel to panel work. Now his panels are filled with sketch and awkward poses to try and fit his ever-bulkier characters into smaller, bacground-less panels. John Jr...buddy...it's time to break out the old 80's style again. Hell..I'd even settle for Dan Jurgens era Thor art....Just for the love a god, stop doing what you're doing now. It's ugly.

  • July 1, 2010, 6:20 a.m. CST

    And yet the WW animated movie

    by Laserhead

    is far and away the best of the DC animated films. A total success. I'm all for WW being sexy, but I agree, for decades she's been beautiful, untouchable, and that kind of inhumanity doesn't draw one to a character's personal dramas.<p>Red Harvest is one of my all-time favorite novels.

  • July 1, 2010, 7:40 a.m. CST

    JRJr and Alan Davis

    by Poptard_JD

    There sure is a lot of disrespect for JRJr and Alan Davis floating around. JRJr's work on this new Avengers title is the worst I've seen of his, but the guy is a comic staple and plenty talented. Back during JMS' Spidey run, it was a crisp clean style and looked beautiful. This new stuff just looks rushed. As for Alan Davis, he's as strong a penciler as ever. His work has gotten BETTER over the years and deserves respect. This guy can DRAW.

  • July 1, 2010, 8:14 a.m. CST

    Grandpa Maverik WAS The Inspiration For Red Harvest

    by Buzz Maverik

    It was a lot more like the Walter Hill version except that he was kind of a cross between the Bruce Willis and Bruce Dern characters. He was a city marshal in east Texas who'd set up and support the bootleggers until they bothered the locals, then he'd kind of wipe them out or run them out and set up a new crew. It worked out quite well until he got shot all those times.

  • July 1, 2010, 9:06 a.m. CST

    I thought the Old Man Logan sequel

    by Laserhead

    was already done. It was that pretty weak Fantastic Four story about 'The Galactus Engine' and New Earth and Logan was 'The Hooded Man', with grandbaby Hulk as his adopted son.

  • July 1, 2010, 9:09 a.m. CST

    Buzz, is that true?

    by Laserhead

    And if anybody likes Red Harvest, buy this book! http://tinyurl.com/23lgvbo

  • July 1, 2010, 9:35 a.m. CST

    Princess Power

    by Hedgehog000

    Does anyone remember JMS's Supreme Power and his take on Princess Power (who is basically a WW knockoff). Obviously, he can't do that to WW, but some out of the box thinking like that would be cool.

  • July 1, 2010, 9:37 a.m. CST

    Laserhead

    by Joenathan

    True, that's the ultimate ending. I think this one will be (and this is just a guess, but I'll bet anything I'm right) that Old Man Logan 2 will be Lone Wolf and Cub journeying through the Supervillian dystopian world

  • July 1, 2010, 9:40 a.m. CST

    Successful reboots

    by Hedgehog000

    Someone commented that reboots never work, have to disagree, I can think of at least a few. John Byrne's Superman reboot worked incredibly well, I particularly liked Lex as an evil, seemingly legit businessman. Obviously, the changes that Chris Claremont and others made to the Xmen turned them from a book almost nobody read into the hottest thing in comics for many, many years. Batman has been successfully rebooted a number of times from near ordinary detective, to campy hero, to near psychotic force of vengeance (Miller), and to JLA superhero. Dan Slott did a great redo of SheHulk who hadn't been interesting before or since (I'd actually like to see Slott try WW, he might go somewhere totally new).

  • July 1, 2010, 9:44 a.m. CST

    I think JMS "gets" WW

    by Joenathan

    mostly because... there's nothing to get. She's basically a blank slate. Beyond: She came from Amazon Island to teach people peace by punching them (America!), she has no other continuity that has stuck. Sure, there's been stories told, but none of them are still with her, none of them affect the character TODAY. Basically, by changing the costume (and I hate to say this because it's so fanboy lame cliche typical) the ONLY possible thing about WW they coul screw up, the ONLY thing people actually know about her... is the costume. By changing it, they've taken her ONE piece of history and continuity and her indentifiable iconic touchstone. By changing her costume they might as well be writing a completely new character.<br><br>Of course... all that being said, I still won't by the book because <br><br>A. It's Wonder Woman, so who cares? And B. It's JMS... It's not like he'll finish it, so why bother?

  • July 1, 2010, 9:46 a.m. CST

    New Readers

    by Joenathan

  • July 1, 2010, 9:49 a.m. CST

    Oops--again...

    by Joenathan

    There is no such thing as "new readers". We're the last generation. We're dinosaurs wandering a slowly freezing landscape. I don't know what the change will be, but video games, internet, and movies ensure that there MUST be one. That's just how it is. It's not Bendis's fault, it's weird and somewhat crazy to try to throw that at his feet.

  • July 1, 2010, 9:51 a.m. CST

    Hedgehog is right

    by Joenathan

    I was going to agree with Jon that reboots never work, but... there are some that did. Wonder Woman won't though. <br><br>The key to Wonder Woman is to make her a relatable character, not change her panties and home address.

  • July 1, 2010, 9:56 a.m. CST

    Also (more stupid WW stuff)

    by Joenathan

    You can't go back to the Golden Age with Wonder Woman. You can't make her MORE relatable by making her LESS modern. She has nothing to fall back on continuity wise beyond your basic greek/amazon stuff (which Incredible Hercules proved can be awesome) and she has nothing to build upon character wise, looking backwards just highlights that. Whoever suceeds with this character, it will be because they built her up internally and gave her external concerns that DOES NOT include superhero stuff. Otherwise, it's just gonna be another in a long, long, inexplicablly long (I believe Thalya is right: She was the only chick at the party, that's why she's remembered now) history of uninteresting fails.

  • July 1, 2010, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Hedgehog

    by Joenathan

    I think Princess Power is now in the Ultimate Universe, hanging out with Nick Fury.

  • July 1, 2010, 10:05 a.m. CST

    WW

    by Hedgehog000

    I'm not as sure that there's nothing to WW that could work. I think if they did a truly "adult" approach, the idea of this amazon who's been taught to hate men, who's been isolated forever, and who comes from an early Greek culture that's incredibly warlike, could be interesting. For example, WW probably wouldn't have much problem killing and/or enslaving enemies. She'd probably be ok with looting and raping too. When Rucka had her kill Maxwell Lord, that was an interesting change for the character - of course it didn't stick.

  • July 1, 2010, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Buzz

    by Joenathan

    "is selling something really any indication of anything being good?"<br><br> Come on... don't be naive. There are many different definitions of "good" and you SHOULD be well aware of that. From a business tand point, the answer is yes, selling alot means you're better than good, you're fucking awesome. Look at Avatar. Most cliched, derivative movie ever... made Ga-billions. But is James Cameron "good"? Well, he did make a movie that appealed o the MOST people ever, and that aint easy, because the old adage goes: "You can't please everybody all the time." James Cameron came pretty damn close, so yes, he'd be "good". So is Bendis? He sells like crack pancakes, so yeah, to MArvel, he's "good". <br><br>BUT<br><br>I assume you're talking about "art" (yaaaaaaaawn), what a waste of discussion. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. "good" is determined on an individual basis. HOWEVER, everyone who buys him (except the idiots who buy him just so they can complain on the internet...), they must think he's "good", otherwise they wouldn't buy him. So is Bendis "good"? <br><br>I think so.

  • July 1, 2010, 10:06 a.m. CST

    PP

    by Hedgehog000

    Joenathan - I think you're right, but I doubt they're making her as bats*** crazy as JMS did. They probably don't have the same artist as did those nudie pics in Supreme Power either.

  • July 1, 2010, 10:08 a.m. CST

    WW

    by Joenathan

    Another problem with changing WW (and I agree, making her hardcore would be a step toward establishing a histoy/3-D character) is the fans. They don't read her, but they DEFINITELY don't want her to change. So, it's like: she has to change to become interesting, but if you change her, the fans flip out. Fucking comics, man...

  • July 1, 2010, 10:09 a.m. CST

    Ah... gary frank boobies

    by Joenathan

    I miss Supreme Power Max

  • July 1, 2010, 10:11 a.m. CST

    Joenathan

    by The Penultimate Gunslinger

    Good point about the original costume. It's the only thing most people (myslef included) know about the character, so would probably be best to keep it as it is, I guess. <p>It sounds like they'd be better off killing Wonder Woman in some amazingly heroic death, then have Donna Troy or Wonder Girl or whoever step up to the role, Wally West style.

  • July 1, 2010, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Bendis

    by Hedgehog000

    I agree that Bendis is probably "good". He's even been artistically good at times. Unlike Cameron in the movies though, I'm not sure from a business sense that he's bringing new people to the table or just doing a good job at selling to those who are already there. Lee/Kirby made comics hip in the 70's. Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman made them intellectually respectable and brought in people who would have sniffed at comics. People like Todd McFarlane made them cool for kids in the early 90's. I sometimes think Bendis just provides the kind of stuff fanboys want - seeing their beloved heroes sit around and yak - as if they were fanboys too.

  • July 1, 2010, 10:16 a.m. CST

    WG vs WW

    by Hedgehog000

    If WW doesn't work for people, I'm unsure why WG would. Wally worked because he brought both a cockiness and a bit of an inferiority complex that gave him a dimension the staid Barry Allan never had. I'm not sure WG isn't just a younger version of WW.

  • July 1, 2010, 10:45 a.m. CST

    Joenathan, when I say go back to the Golden Age

    by Continentalop

    I mean see what it was that the original creators where trying to do. It is like writers constant attempt to update the Penguin without going back and looking at the original intent - you get a character who becomes less relevant and relatable to modern audiences. Or you could compare it to what they did with the new Sherlock Holmes movie, where they went back and say an aspect that had not been explored about the character in films that much, his use of martial arts like baritsu. That is what I mean by going back to the Golden Age with Wonder Woman. <p> You say she can't work, period. Fine. That is your opinion. But I say there is enough elements in her that make her interesting to last this long - what is it about her that makes her so memorable that comic book writers have not been able to tap into for 53 years since her creator died? <P> And you know what it is? Is isn't bondage (but that helps), it isn't that she was a member of the JLA, or the first major female super-hero (but that does play into it)...it is MYTHOLOGY. And not Greek mythology, her own, Wonder Woman mythology based only partly on Greek mythology. William Moulton Marston understand the basic concepts of what mythology does and was the first to impose those on a comic book character. <P> Before the creators of Superman started to adding all these memorable elements to his mythology, Wonder Woman already had an encyclopedia full of her own unique myths. Paradise Island, the Island of Healing, Transformation Island, The Purple Ray, Beeta Lambda sorority at Holliday College, etc, all predate the naming of the planet Krypton, Jor-El, Lara, the Phantom Zone, Fortress of Solitude, Smallville, kryptonite (in all their colors) and the rest. Sure, Wonder Woman’s mythos isn’t as well remembered, but neither is Captain Marvels (who stopped publishing for awhile) and other characters who were drastically altered from their original intent (once again, look at the Penguin). <P> And for proof that it is mythology that makes Wonder Woman what she is, what is the things people remember most about her? Yes, part of it is her costume and how Linda Carter filled it out, but the other things people remember are her bracelets, her lasso, and her invisible plane. Basically the comic book version of modernized mythological magical items, like the ones that Perseus took into battle. Are bracelets, a lasso and an invisible plane anymore bizarre than a magic sword, shield, helm of invisibility and sandals with tiny wings on them that can let you fly? Or how about a magic hammer that creates thunder, girdle that increases your strength, gauntlets and a chariot pulled by a pair of flying goats that you can eat and they will regenerate the next day? <P> I think that actually making her so bound up in Greek mythology has hurt her because it makes her seem more out of place - there was nothing like her in Greek mythology. But if you go by the assumption that she was an extension of the Greek myths, one that come of after they continued to develop on their own for over 3,000 years and were not just stagnant, than I think I could imagine the character working again. Greek myths was her starting point, something for people to relate to, but not her all that she was. <P> She is just a modern mythological character, one for this era. Where Heracles, Theseus, Perseus and Jason were the chthonic heroes for a young Greek nation and represented the virtues of masculinity and manliness, Wonder Woman represents the virtues of womanhood and how feminine traits can be a strength, and humankind’s victories over hatred and agression.

  • July 1, 2010, 10:53 a.m. CST

    Also

    by Continentalop

    "it will be because they built her up internally and gave her external concerns that DOES NOT include superhero stuff." <P> That is one of my points about the Golden Age, She had a huge supporting cast that did not always include super-heroics. Beta Lamda and the Holiday College, her sisters on Paradise Island, Steve Trevor, Col. Phil Darnell and the Defense Department, etc, was just as deep as anything Superman, Batman, Captain America or Captain Marvel had at that time. Something that was unfortunately lost when Perez did the Post-Crisis revival. <P> Another aspect they should think about bringing back.

  • July 1, 2010, 11:04 a.m. CST

    Continentalop

    by Joenathan

    You're probably right, there's probably gold in her backstory hills, but I still hold that she's needs character oundation that makes her relatable first and foremost. I mean, really, no matter what mythology weirdness we pull out of her past... we've pretty much seen it. "Oh no, God so and so is trying to destory the world with the Helm of blankity-blank. We used to know each other back on Ancient Greek Land Island for ladies without pants. WONDER WOMAN AWAY!" I'm kidding, because I don't/won't read Wonder Woman because the character and creators involved doesn't interest me, but I certainly believe that she COULD be cool, even though I love a good invisible plane joke... she just needs something more than just fashion acessories to make her a whole and interesting character.

  • July 1, 2010, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Also

    by Joenathan

    "She had a huge supporting cast that did not always include super-heroics."<br><br>I think we're saying the same thing. She had. HAD. That's MY point. Nothing from her past, except that she came from an island of pantless ladies to teach the world of man peace through punching, affects the character TODAY. The only thing that makes her indentifiable is her one piece swimsuit, etc.

  • July 1, 2010, 11:12 a.m. CST

    No I agree Joe

    by Continentalop

    Which is why I keep bringing up Sherlock Holmes the Movie. They went back and found an element that was not explored BUT that made him relevant to modern audiences: he knows how to fight. That is in the books. They just featured it more. <P> I'm not saying to make WW a clone of her 1940's self, and pull out all this old comic book hooey - that would be like saying we are going to bring back the Chronoscope for Superman or have Batman carry Anti-Shark Bat Repellent in his utility belt. It's a different era. <P> But I do think they should look at WHY she was popular back then and TAP into that, not necessarily completely imitate it. Adams & O'Neill and Miller tapped into the dark, pulpish era of 1939-40 Batman, they didn't have him smoke a pipe, carry a gun and have a fiancee named Julia Madison. That is what I mean by going back to the Golden Age. Find out what made her work. <P> And for me, it is mythology. How she has her own mythology and is a mythological hero in a modern era.

  • July 1, 2010, 11:13 a.m. CST

    Didn't Grant Morrison recently express an interest in WW?

    by stones_throw

    Specifically in revisiting the original William Moulton Marston concepts? If DC wants to revitalise the character that seems a better bet since (from what I've read) Wonder Woman is fairly unique among Golden Age superheroes in being created by a member of the intelligentsia according to conscious thematic scheme; whereas Superman and Batman were produced by struggling young men with explicit themes added later. (Embodiment of the the American immigrant dream, war on crime etc.) Would those ideas work today in a very different comic book market? It would be an interesting experiment, which is why I found the mooted Morrison project intriguing. JMS's vision just screams early '90s. Is a super-powered, flying Amazonian more realistic with or without a jacket?

  • July 1, 2010, 11:16 a.m. CST

    Also

    by Continentalop

    But that is why I keep saying go back to the Golden Age. Obviously a huge horrible wrong turn was made with the character to make her irrelevant to modern readers. <P> She HAD a great supporting cast, should becomes she WILL HAVE a great supporting cast again. In fact, I don't mind the idea of a retcon where they undo some of the unintentional damage that Perez inflicted (great run, but getting rid of Steve Trevor turned into a colossal blunder because now she has no one in her life of any importance at all).

  • July 1, 2010, 11:21 a.m. CST

    I also think getting rid of the Secret Identity

    by Continentalop

    Was a big mistake. Sure it was ridiculous for her to have a cover identity working for Military Intelligence and no one could recognize her with the female Clark Kent disguise, but it gave her opportunities to react and have a relationships with normal people. And who cares if it was ridiculous? She wears a flag swimsuit and flies around in an invisible plane - believable rational for her secret identity is non-important.

  • July 1, 2010, 11:27 a.m. CST

    Steve Rogers long had the same problem

    by Joenathan

    I'm sure there's a solution for Wonder Woman too and I think we agree, secret identity or not, what she needs is outside relationships, everyday concerns... honestly... she needs to be "Marvel-ized"

  • July 1, 2010, 11:28 a.m. CST

    Peace through Punching

    by Joenathan

    I want that on a T-shirt

  • July 1, 2010, 11:38 a.m. CST

    I don't think she needs to be "Marvel-ized"

    by Continentalop

    As much as "Spider-Man-ized" and "Superman-ized." Those are the two characters who's lives have always been soap operas where the stuff outside of the super-heroics is just as important as the stuff in the costume - maybe even more so. <P> I mean Wonder Woman is a girl - she SHOULD be something of a soap opera character with personal and romantic problems. She should honestly be like Buffy the Vampire Slayer in the sense that her personal life is very much in conflict with her special mission.

  • July 1, 2010, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Totally

    by Joenathan

    That's what I was saying. She needs some human dram through in between the punches. With occasional forays to the Island of No Pants, which, contrary to popular belief is NOT a place in France.

  • July 1, 2010, 11:44 a.m. CST

    though

    by Joenathan

    *thrown

  • July 1, 2010, 11:45 a.m. CST

    Joe, Re: WW; Gunslinger, Re: Joenathan

    by Thalya

    A-MEN!

  • July 1, 2010, 11:46 a.m. CST

    Side Note: To bad Marvel didn't own WW

    by Continentalop

    Or DC owned Captain America. I always thought it would make way more sense if it was Steve ROGERS instead of Steve TREVOR who crashed on Paradise Island. It would totally explain her star-spangled costume...she has the hots for Cap and wants to impress him. <P> Maybe someone can throw that in an Elseworlds/What if?

  • July 1, 2010, 11:48 a.m. CST

    Hedgehog, Re: WG vs WW

    by Thalya

    Donna isn't an ice queen, she's THE cool girl who everyone likes. She's not a princess. She lives her creed, she doesn't preach.

  • July 1, 2010, noon CST

    The pants game again...

    by mortsleam

    "Doc, we don't have enough pants to reach 88mph!" <p>"Pants? Where we're going, we won't need... pants..."

  • July 1, 2010, noon CST

    The pants game again...

    by mortsleam

    "Doc, we don't have enough pants to reach 88mph!" <p>"Pants? Where we're going, we won't need... pants..."

  • July 1, 2010, 12:27 p.m. CST

    Cable

    by andread

    Hey, Optimous, I think the ending of X-Men Legacy was implying that Cable let himself be completely taken over by the techno-organic virus, erasing his organic components entirely. A big sacrifice leading to either his death or rebirth, maybe? Or merging with Cypher? Cy-ble? Doug-ble?

  • July 1, 2010, 2:14 p.m. CST

    A Grant Morrison WW could be interesting

    by Jaka

    Mostly because I don't think he's ever done a particularly stellar job with female characters. It would be interesting to see what he would/could do with her in modern times. I think it would, anyway. However, I don't actually read much WW. I dug the Trinity series for a while, but after a while I realized I wasn't reading it for two or three months in a row so I took it off the pull list.

  • July 1, 2010, 2:23 p.m. CST

    There is a simple solution for Wonder Woman

    by gooseud

    Make her evil. She realizes that all her efforts to educate mankind and her ambassadorial efforts for peace have failed. She snaps, or decides to take matters into her own hands fascist-style. See, thats the thing: its FAR more believable that WW would have an Irredeemable style fall from grace then Supes. She is a warrior first and foremost, and when the word fails, its time for the sword. They were completely on the right track when she killed Maxwell Lord, thats EXACTLY what she would do, shes from an island of spear wielding, man hating warriors!! Unfortunately, they backtracked on that just like they always do on cool ideas (although the Kingdom Come warrior princess was also on the right track, that actually made her interesting). There is a cool character in there somewhere if they just went balls out badass with her (considering Supes couldnt break her magic lasso, sO she actuaLLY COULD go toe to toe with the blue boy scout.

  • July 1, 2010, 2:25 p.m. CST

    Having said that...

    by gooseud

    WW isnt DC's most underutilized, misunderstood character. That would be Captain Marvel, who has the potential to rule with such awesomeness that it is a crime someone hasnt fully utilzed him yet.

  • July 1, 2010, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Knowing Grant Morrison...

    by Thalya

    How close to becoming an actual woman would he go to write it?

  • July 1, 2010, 2:37 p.m. CST

    Goose, what do you do after she goes evil

    by Continentalop

    You've just painted her into a corner after that? She can never just go back to being a hero. <P> But I agree with you about Captain Marvel. Underutilized, misunderstood and I would add wasted.

  • July 1, 2010, 2:48 p.m. CST

    Jaka

    by Joenathan

    His female characters in Invisibles were just fine.

  • July 1, 2010, 2:52 p.m. CST

    The WW roots

    by Hedgehog000

    Conty's idea of getting to the creator's intent is interesting. Marston wanted to make a character for young girls to look up to. Now, WW is a character for fanboys to drool over. Joenathan may be on the right track suggesting to have her in a soap opera, maybe they should even go further and Mangaize her (yeah, I don't like Manga either). As for evil, while I liked Supreme Power Princess Power, it doesn't work for the long term. Maybe she could be like Wolverine or Ares in the MU.

  • July 1, 2010, 2:52 p.m. CST

    Continentalop

    by Joenathan

    What do you mean? Eventually it's WW (and probably her army) vs the world of heroes. She'll be brought down, but then there's the trail, the redemption... I mean, yeah, eventually someone will have to reboot her, back to her roots, yadda, yadda, yadda, but this is comics. You can't think in terms of forever, you can opnly think the next three years, the next five years...

  • July 1, 2010, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Joenathan, true.

    by Jaka

    But they're also decidedly Grant Morrison characters. Not what one would call mainstream at all. Certainly not classic archetypal comic book characters. I'm one of those who likes what he did/is doing with Batman, so I think it would be interesting to see what he could come up with for Wonder Woman. Even if it was in an Elseworlds context.

  • July 1, 2010, 3 p.m. CST

    Joenathan

    by Continentalop

    That was much more of a question than a statement. The question being doesn't it forever taint her character if she truly becomes evil? I mean, it is one thing if she is Sub-Mariner level bad for a moment, but goose compared her to Irredeemable levels of badness. It is hard just to say "forgive and forget" if she sinks Singapore, don't you think?

  • July 1, 2010, 3:17 p.m. CST

    I say: "why not"

    by Joenathan

    What is Wonder Woman? A blank slate in a flag swim suit. I was picturing more of a hard-liner, maybe edging into Magneto than Irredeemable, but either way... why not give her an edge, a moment, a trajedy, SOMETHING that you can build a history and a character off of, because right now? All she is, is the member of the Big Seven with boobs

  • July 1, 2010, 3:21 p.m. CST

    Yes, but Joe those are very nice boobs

    by Continentalop

    I can understand Magneto level or Sub-Mariner, like you said, but it is just Irredeemable levels of evil seem a tad too much. <p> Also, I sometimes think making someone evil is the easy way out of making a character. She is supposed to be a hero, someone for girls to hold up to as a standard like boys do Superman. It almost smacks me as fanboy fear of woman and feminism (not accusing you or goose of that, but it does have that appearance if you have the number one female hero turn evil - strong women are bitches).

  • July 1, 2010, 3:50 p.m. CST

    To me

    by Joenathan

    Playing around with those issues while doing a Diana Amazon Fascist storyline, could be really interesting, because yes, there would be a lot of inherant commentary that I'd like to see tackled. I think that would be really cool, because, at a Magneto level, you could really go for the "what if she's right?" angle. I'd like that. I'd read that.<br><br>Irredeemable could be too much, unless she did that kind of stuff to "bad guys"

  • July 1, 2010, 3:51 p.m. CST

    And yes,

    by Joenathan

    They ARe nice boobs

  • July 1, 2010, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Question fellas...

    by Thalya

    [stealing from an earlier TB] Would "terrible benevolence" be a way to characterize some of what you may want in Wondy?

  • July 1, 2010, 4:39 p.m. CST

    I think...

    by Prof

    ...Darwyn Cooke's use of WW in NEW FRONTIER sums up a solid way to approach the character. A modest change to the costume and an Amazonian attitude of empowerment for oppressed women. Which is what she did for those women in Viet-Nam. WW didn't go in there and beat the snot out of the guys raping and oppressing them. She empowered the women to rise up and take down their oppressors...much to Superman's horror.

  • July 1, 2010, 8:16 p.m. CST

    It's not a bad idea at all...

    by Thalya

    But DC won't allow her an ounce of the Dionysian, lest they allow the whore persona to mix with her virgin persona. Look at how everyone screamed and hollered over Max Lord (and how they're probably going to retcon away her being the one to kill him with Generation Lost/Brightest Day).<BR><BR>How is it that Wondy is supposed to be the natural mediator between Supes and Bats, but she's not allowed any of Bats' dark side?

  • July 1, 2010, 11:11 p.m. CST

    Words Of Wisdom, Joenathan...

    by Buzz Maverik

    ...especially the well typed middle part.

  • July 1, 2010, 11:14 p.m. CST

    Laserhead...

    by Buzz Maverik

    ...as the title character of an unproduced DIE HARD type screenplay about a thief left out of the caper who shows up to menace the crew when they take over Microsoft, I personally guarantee that every word I type is true.

  • July 1, 2010, 11:16 p.m. CST

    Sorry It Took Me So Long To Get Back To You Guys

    by Buzz Maverik

    I just got out of my sensory deprivation tank (actually my neighbor's swimming pool -- I float around in it with my ears underwater while they're at work. Next week, when they go on vacation, after a drainage day, it'll be my private skatepark. BTW, they are now out of vodka).

  • July 1, 2010, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Is YOUNGBLOOD # 1 Good, Joe?

    by Buzz Maverik

    And McFarlane's SPIDER-MAN # 1, cause those outsold any single issue Bendis has ever done and they ain't art. Like TWILIGHT ain't literature.<p>Actually, I'm a Bendis fan. Every review I ever did of a Bendis comic got a thumbs up and FORTUNE & GLORY is one of my top ten favorite graphic novels of all time. And I thought SECRET INVASION was one of the best events of the decade, if they, you know, HAVE to have events instead of just comics.

  • July 1, 2010, 11:20 p.m. CST

    My Neighbors Are At Work When I'm Floating..

    by Buzz Maverik

    ...not my ears. That would be kind of cool, though.

  • July 2, 2010, 7:20 a.m. CST

    McFarlanes Spidey

    by Hedgehog000

    I don't think that's a good comparison. The 90's were a freak time when comics had a bubble as if they were internet stocks and a lot of people who normally weren't into comics bought and collected. That said, a lot of people enjoyed McFarlane's art and some still consider him a definitive Spidey artist. I thought it was cool though his style wears on you after a while. And while Twilight may not be art, a lot of people really love it.

  • July 2, 2010, 7:34 a.m. CST

    No one is going to read this, but....

    by gooseud

    I was on my way back from vacation, so I didnt have a chance to respond to Cont and Joe. In regards to evil WW, and what happens if she goes to the dark side: who say anything needs to happen? Why cant she just be evil? The biggest pox on comics storytelling, bar none, is writing for the reboot. All of us have been reading comics forever, and we know all the tricks, twists, and turns. We know when something isnt permanent, and can see the storytelling "seams" in the fabric of where the story is going to go. Alot of these storylines are being written with the reboot in mind, and we can see it, and the writers KNOW we can see it, but cant do anything about it due to editorial edict. So, in answer to your question, what would happen if WW turned evil? Nothing. Shes evil. I dont think Irredeemable-style (basically, what WW Hulk SHOULD have been had it had any balls whatsoever) evil would be logical for her, but a fascist, "I know best" storyline would be perfect, logical, and pretty awesome, especially since Supes and Batman cant, on the surface of things, stop her all that easily.

  • July 2, 2010, 8:44 a.m. CST

    Because it's just too hard

    by Joenathan

    Yes, Buzz, they are. From a sales aspect, they were very "good" and at the time, everyone loved them(go ahead and pretend you didn't, poser), so yeah, they were "good" there to. They were lauded critically, as well. So yes, in just about everyway, at one time or another Liefeld and McFarlane and their products were considered "good". I know it's REALLY hard for you to grasp the concept of multiple definitions, but try to give it a go, ok? <br><br>OR<br><br>You could maybe write some more "c-c-c-c-CRAZY" non-sequitor posts. People love them. They do. They read them all the time and never skip them. Really. Proceed.

  • July 2, 2010, 8:45 a.m. CST

    Goose

    by Joenathan

    I'm with you. I would read the fuck outta that Wonder Woman

  • July 2, 2010, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Goose

    by Continentalop

    As Joe has stated repeatedly, comics are a dying art. They pretty much only exist to keep properties alive in the publics mind until they can be used in another medium. <P> Wonder Woman has HUGE name recognition. Huge. We think she is a horrible comic book character, but come to Hollywood and you'll see two, three actresses dressed as here. If you are lucky you'll see a Supergirl and a Catwoman and MAYBE Batgirl. And for the guys you'll see Spider-Man, Batman, Joker, Superman, Captain America, Iron Man, and you used to see Wolverine but people didn't recognize him (they now him from the leather jacket character in the movies, not the comics). <P> My point is, for a character who hasn't been big comic book seller she is hugely popular. More so than Punisher, the FF, Flash, Green Lantern, Thor and the other heroes in the publics eye. She was big enough name and famous enough for a TV show in the 70s and has been continuously published since her debut in 1941. <P> And now you want to turn her evil? And what, still have her in her iconic costume? The American flag themed one. I doubt that will fly. And if you DID change the costume than you risk losing her instant recognizability. <P> The idea of turning her evil is the idea that you're throwing your hands up and giving up on her because there is nothing you can do with her. I disagree with that mentality. The problem with Wonder Woman isn't so much with WW as is that most writers haven't a clue what to do with her, and one of the reasons is because the character she is now is so far removed from the one that was so popular on the TV show in the 70s and in the comics in the 40s. They keep trying to find ways to make her work instead of going back to what made her work - the same thing that worked for Spider-Man and Superman and even Buffy the Vampire Slayer, a personal soap opera. <P> You can disagree with me fine, but I keep asking if she is such a bad character why is it that so many elements of hers stick - the bracelets, the costume, the lasso, the plane, the Amazons, Steve Trevor, the Diana Prince alter ego - yet no one tries to figure out how to make THOSE elements relevant to a modern audience? Instead they keep trying to throw the baby out with the bath water.

  • July 2, 2010, 10:55 a.m. CST

    I think you're sticking on the word: "evil"

    by Joenathan

    I'm saying Machiavellian. I'm saying Amazon Warrior who's tired of pussy footing around. I'm saying "hard-liner". To me, she's a generic blank slate, so why not try anything?<br><br>You're right though, I'd even saying the three most recognizable super heroes are Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. It's always seemed so strange how she is so instantly recognizable, so cross genre popular, and yet... has never really been that good in the medium of her choice. Crazy.

  • July 2, 2010, 10:55 a.m. CST

    Not "choice"

    by Joenathan

    "birth"

  • July 2, 2010, 11:04 a.m. CST

    Joenathan

    by Continentalop

    "has never really been that good in the medium of her choice. " <P> That isn't actually true. I know you are not a GA fan, but if you compare WW in the GA to Batman and Superman you'll see that she is actually much more consistent than those two. <p> Did she have as good as Rogues Gallery as Batman? No, but she had a much better one than Superman. And she had the better supporting cast, personal life, and was a much deeper comic with more subtext (and not just about bondage and sex). <p> The problem IMO is that while Superman and Batman were able to adapt to the times but keep there recognizable supporting cast, WW's was jettisoned on more than one occasion in a desperate attempt to make here relevant. <p> WW suffers the some problem as Captain Marvel (Batson) and Plastic-Man - a lack of good modern writers who knows how to use them.

  • July 2, 2010, 11:55 a.m. CST

    True

    by Joenathan

    That is the core of her problem. Give Diana a life and a supporting cast and the rest will follow

  • July 2, 2010, 7:59 p.m. CST

    I Believe I've Upset Joe

    by Buzz Maverik

    My work is nearly done. I promise to make my posts funnier by reading back issues of WIZARD, stealing all the Hawkeye BBQ jokes and giant tea cup gags, pass them off as my own and use them EVERY talk back.<p>Poser? Like you surf.

  • July 2, 2010, 8:02 p.m. CST

    Joe Doesn't Understand Me Because...

    by Buzz Maverik

    English isn't my native language. My parents spoke German around me until I was five, even though they aren't German. They just thought it'd be funny when I went through the public school system.

  • July 2, 2010, 8:16 p.m. CST

    But Joe...

    by Thalya

    ..your last thought there is precisely what every writer of hers since COIE has thought. It hasn't worked.<BR><BR>Another angle, maybe? Isn't Diana supposed to represent the ideal (American?) woman? Has she been that since the Golden Age? At that, is this also a reason why Superman suffers? Implicitly, they're supposed to represent the ideal American man and woman, but as the idea of what it means to be "American" has been under question for the last 50 years, their identities and impact have diminished. It's not an angle that explains everything about why she doesn't work, but it's probably a factor.

  • July 2, 2010, 8:20 p.m. CST

    Hey Buzz?

    by Thalya

    *passes the cubans and Herradura, especially the Herradura*

  • July 2, 2010, 11:42 p.m. CST

    Thalya, has the American identity question...

    by Continentalop

    ...really diminished their impact and charater? Both are imigrants, who have come to the US. Superman is an immigrant who is learning about his past culture, regaining his ethic roots while not losing his American identity (he is the jew who pretends to be a gentile or the light skinned latino who passes himself as white or even the black american who knows nothing of his past or African ancestors, now older trying to reclaim his lost heritage - Kryptonian for Superman). <P> WW is the recent immigrant. Someone who finds American culture alien but wants to fit in because she admires our belief system. She is the "wetback" over the border, the recent African immigrant or refugee, the guy from India or China trying to make a stab at it here. <p> I think if you look at them like that Supes and WWII's American Identity still make them very relevant.

  • July 3, 2010, 12:33 a.m. CST

    At the same time as "Truth, Justice, and all that..."?

    by Thalya

    Except where DC and WB have tried to tone all that down in order to sell to an international audience?<BR><BR>What you're describing is their original natures. I would say Superman suffers less than WW because one of the foundations of his character is that he was raised in the heartland, which offers a ready point of identification.<BR><BR>For your point on Wondy, when's the last time we've seen in the comic her speaking of her admiration of American values? (and look at the new costume, the American Flag look is clearly downplayed) I would say from Perez onwards that the emphasis has been on Amazon culture rather than Diana's story as a recent immigrant; I cede that Perez developed the latter angle notably, but how much was it developed after his run? And how can she really be an immigrant when she's still an Amazon princess with all attendant duties? This is why Paradise Island gets destroyed with each new creative team run (along with her getting a new supporting cast). There's a quality about her from the Golden Age that was apparently stripped away, and every Themyscira/cast shakeup since has been an attempt to paper over the hole in her.

  • July 3, 2010, 1:08 a.m. CST

    No, I agree whole-heartedly Thalya

    by Continentalop

    I actually raised my statement as a point of maybe HOW Wonder Woman should be presented and how she can still have relevance. Here is a character who is from a foreign land and comes to America voluntarily (unlike Superman) to live and fight. She tries to fit in, but she also retains much of her own culture and beliefs. And despite being from a foreigner she wants to be part of America and be considered an American. <P> How is this character considered someone that is NOT relevant to the modern era? Seriously. <P> I agree with you about Perez - he did a great job elevating the role of Greek myths in her background, but despite how much I liked his run I think I have to look at Perez's work as a failure because it had the unforeseen consequences of leaving her rudderless and without direction. She is now a greek myth who wears an American flag costume for no reason, and has no real normal human supporting cast (of they are all quickly discarded and replaced). Like you said, se is an Amazon princess who everyone on these fans sites say should be an "ambassador" to Man's world instead of someone trapped here (look at the original WW stories, she leaves Paradise Island with the idea she will never come back and see her mother or sisters - a damn tragic immigrant story). <p> Like I said, here is a character who can represents the idea of comic books as modern myths, sexuality, the role and status of women in society, AND the idea of being a recent immigrant in America, and no one can figure out what to do with her? Makes no fucking sense to me.

  • July 3, 2010, 2:11 a.m. CST

    That's not a half-bad idea at all..

    by Thalya

    Provided creators can refrain from returning to Themyscira, a tempting device, to be sure. <BR><BR>Question is, how much does her work as feminist symbol really matter anymore when feminism has largely won? Or, how much has being a symbol of the modern feminist movement been a detriment? I find it somewhat (no, scratch that, DEEPLY) offensive that here's this foreign ice-queen princess who's here to tell me with dated utopian rhetoric how to be empowered when I can already go toe-to-toe with anyone I damn well please, no thanks to any kind of "sisterhood." (and yet everyone near her automatically claims to "love her" in a continuously egregious display of tell-don't-show storytelling) Beatriz daCosta in Formerly Known As The Justice League said it best: "Bitch." <_< -_- .....ahem.<BR><BR>But... *looks up the TB* Yup. Is there anything that hasn't covered at this point? A better question might be 'what have they done right with her character since COIE?' Kinda seems sad to say that there's maybe more meat for discussion as to how she's not been successful.

  • ......ahem.<BR><BR>Was just gonna say: *looks up at the TB* What haven't we covered at this point? Would it be an easier question to ask what's been done right with her character since COIE? Though it seems a sad commentary that the topic of why she's so unsuccessful may well be the meatier one.

  • July 3, 2010, 4:19 a.m. CST

    Thayla

    by Continentalop

    I really can't comment how much has been done right with the character since Crisis because I have only sporadically looked at her other than Perez and Byrne's run (thought both were good but in hindsight flawed - although I like the fact that Byrne made Queen Hippolyta the GA Wonder Woman). Whenever I do see her I feel disappointed....she is just Wonder Woman in the name and costume only, none of the glory that was the character in the past. <P> As for how much of a feminist symbol is she isn't that important IMO as much as she is a character that girl's and woman can look up to for inspiration and relate to the problems she tackles, and that men find as someone interesting enough to want to follow and read. I can't speak for girls and women, but I imagine that it must be nice form of wish fulfillment to be someone who is much stronger than men. The one fear many women I know have is being physically or sexually assaulted, and because of this they are intimidated by large, imposing men. So, it is probably nice to fantasize that you were like WW and can kick any guys ass who so much as puts a finger on you. <P> Secondly, I think despite the advances of women in modern society, it hasn't been fairly spread over the globe. To me, as much as WW fights for America and views herself as an adopted daughter of the US, I also see her seeing herself as someone who cares about the global struggles of women and children, and really any one viewed historically as weaker. She is someone who wonders what can be done about the apartheid that women live under in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, about women getting raped in South Africa, about children soldier's in Western Africa, about white slavery in Europe and the US, and about child pornography and slave rings in the US. <P> Also, I think she could work great as an allegory for what modern women are going through. Like you said, you can go toe-to-toe with anyone and no thanks to "sisterhood." I think Wonder Woman can be like a modern, comic book version of G.I. Jane (bad movie, interesting message) - you want to compete with men, you must compete with men on their playing field. She doesn't ask to be judged against other heroines but against other heroes - men or women. She is truly gender bias free. <P> Finally, I could also see her reflect on something that a lot of women encounter nowadays - lack of men who equal them in status or education. Many women are finding it hard to find a man as tall as them, as educated as them or makes as much money. I'm not saying that Wonder Woman encounters this literally, but imagine how much turmoil must be in the relationship between her and Steve Trevor, stud in the real world with normal women, but overshadowed by Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, Aquaman and the rest. <p> My question is has any of these angles been explored by modern writers?

  • July 3, 2010, 3:22 p.m. CST

    CO: let me respond point-by-point..

    by Thalya

    Though before points, let just say I think you've been utterly spot-on with most everything you've written thus far (Buffy aside - her formula works, it's awesome, but her quality of humanity favors having the supporting cast, whereas it doesn't make as much sense with Wondy, who feels more lone-wolf)<BR><BR> - Honestly, I haven't read much of her either, just getting into comics in 2004, thereabouts. I've felt an obligation to read her because she's the premier female superheroine, but aside from some good Rucka writing (The Cheetah issue late in his run), Dodson artwork and briefly making Donna WW, and glimmers of depth/reality early in Simone's run, there haven't been any hooks for me.<BR><BR>- You're right that it's wish-fulfillment to be a physically powerful woman. That's a huge part of the appeal for a lot of women, I suspect. Truth be told, I've never conceived of Wonder Woman as fitting that particular mold - I find Power Girl more appealing in that regard.<BR><BR>- Very true that there are plenty of women's rights issues out there for her to deal with, that she ought to deal with. Just, while appropriate for her and no doubt dealt with by modern writers, is there an audience for that kind of story?<BR><BR>- I don't know if Wonder Woman herself has presented being a modern woman "no thanks to sisterhood" - so long as she's had the Amazons, that'll never happen. Veronica Cale is a good representative of the self-made woman though - almost too good (my favorite moment with her was in Giffen's 4 Horsemen mini when Cale shut WW down from whining about being nearly sealed out of the complex along with a horde of zombies). Frankly, I'm speaking as an outlier with no genuine female friends: so long as a girl or woman has at least one girl-friend or a tight set of familial women, she's got "sisterhood."<BR><BR>- YES!!! Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes! Brother, you are singing my heart. It's so hard to find a man who can keep up. Sadly, it seems like most modern writers strictly avoid the romance angle at all. Probably the best (only) that's been done is the potential Batman/Wondy 'ship in JLA or Wondy/Nemesis with Gail's run.

  • July 10, 2010, 1:03 a.m. CST

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