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Christopher Nolan speaks out about 3-D, Inception, Superman, Batman, writing and much more from the Hero Complex Film Festival!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here.
Geoff Boucher’s Hero Complex Film Festival continued last night with a double feature of INSOMNIA and THE DARK KNIGHT. The two features were split by the Q&A with Nolan and he had some really cool stuff to say about all things filmmaking. I’m especially fond of his scientific distrust of 3-D as a viable and ongoing format.
But first let’s go back and look at the two flicks shown tonight. I missed INSOMNIA when it first hit theaters for some reason. It could have been due to travel… I don’t remember, but I know I didn’t see it until it hit DVD where it really struck a chord with me. I loved the atmosphere, the slow descent into sleep deprived semi-insanity by the main character, the wonderfully flawed Will Dormer (Al Pacino) and the pitch perfect serious turn by Robin Williams.
Watching it on the big screen really underlined the fantastic work by everybody involved, specifically Pacino and Williams, and made Wally Pfister’s photography pop in a way that isn’t possible on standard def DVDs (and few Blu-Ray transfers to be completely honest).
Part of that is due to the amazing location work in BC and Alaska (the setting of this little tale) and the rest is because of Pfister’s sheer magical talent at capturing images. The man must have trapped a leprechaun or discovered a magic lamp or something even more ridiculous. There’s no way a regular guy can be this good at photography.
Pacino plays a detective who is incredibly good at his job, but is also under investigation by internal affairs, so his bosses kinda throw him a murder case up in Alaska to get him out from the prying eyes of the agency.
What starts out as a Silence of the Lambs rip-off quickly morphs into something a billion times more interesting and nuanced. We know Pacino’s partner has decided to cut a deal with IA, a deal that most likely would mean throwing Pacino’s fame and record into question, and that he’s not happy about it. So when Pacino shoots his partner while searching through the white mist for the cornered killer we don’t really know if it is an accident.
Which is perfect because after a few sleepless nights, neither does Pacino.
“A good cop can’t sleep at night because he’s missing a piece of the puzzle. And a bad cop can’t sleep because his conscience won’t let him.” That’s a quote attributed to Pacino’s character, recited by Hilary Swank’s Detective Ellie Burr, an Alaskan officer who idolizes the famous LA detective.
So, which is causing Pacino’s insomnia? Is it guilt or his inability to make all the pieces of the murder he’s there to solve come together? Both? Maybe it’s just the constant sunlight and lack of night that does it.
At a certain point Pacino’s forced to cover his ass when the shooting death of his partner starts being thoroughly explored. He soon discovers there was only one witness to the accident/murder… the fleeing murderer of the 17 year old girl that brought him to Alaska in the first place.
Williams, of course, is the murderer and doesn’t play anything for laughs here. The light is still in his eyes and he turns in one of the most nuanced performances of his career. It might not be particularly Oscar bait-ish, but it’s perfectly balanced. His Walter Finch is a deeply troubled soul that is just barely sane enough to believe he was justified in murdering this girl and not realize how fucking crazy he sounds trying to bond with Pacino.
There are a lot of layers to this film, to each character and to the plot as it unravels. If you haven’t given it a spin in a while, throw the fucker on. You’ll be impressed all over again. I was.
And what can possibly be said about The Dark Knight that hasn’t been said already? Two years out and it still gave me goosebumps. When Heath Ledger’s Joker is video taping the fake Batman and turns on a dime from the laughing clown to the threatening lunatic (“Look at me… LOOK AT ME!!!”) I get chills. I have every single time I’ve seen the movie… whether on Blu or the big screen.
I love that the movie is all about small victories. In reality The Joker wins here. At every moment he’s right where he wants to be. The only time he seems genuinely surprised is when the two ferries don’t blow up, the biggest victory of the movie for our heroes and one that Batman really has nothing to do with (if you don’t consider the positive impact he’s had on the citizens of Gotham).
The way the Nolans and David Goyer structured the film is dark as shit. The Joker is one of the most iconic comic book characters ever created and they make him one of the best realized screen villains in the history of the moving pictures. Smart, unstable, unpredictable, The Joker is the perfect villain for Bats. He has figured Batman out and I love that at a certain point he has no interest whatsoever in killing the hero. Instead it becomes all about HURTING him. Kind of Khan-like in that regard when you think about it. “I’ve done far worse than kill you, Admiral. I’ve hurt you. And I wish to go on hurting you.”
But unlike Khan The Joker’s attacks are more at breaking down Batman’s moral code, which he is unable to do, but that forces Bats to be on the defensive the whole movie. Even at the end he has to make an impossible decision.
Everything is running at top efficiency here. Nolan’s direction, all the performances from Christian Bale to Aaron Eckhart to Michael Caine to Morgan Freeman to Heath Ledger just pop off the screen, Wally Pfister’s cinematography is unreal, the score is pitch perfect (I noticed this time out that they use the high screech of The Joker’s theme much like John Williams used the Jaws main theme to always indicate when The Joker’s around. I didn’t notice it ever popping up when he isn’t on screen or just off screen) and the whole just feels effortlessly epic.
I’ve noticed it’s become kind of trendy to dismiss this film, but that really kind of blows my mind. I can’t even fathom that point of view. I’m not saying it’s wrong to have an opinion, but I just can’t imagine not being in awe of this film.
There are my thoughts upon revisiting those two films tonight. Let’s get into the Nolan Q&A, shall we?
- Nolan considers Robin Williams’ work in Insomnia “flawless.” “I wound up watching the film a hundred times as we cut it, as we nailed it down, and I never hit that point in the performances where you see the acting.”
- Discussion turned to similar projects kind of haunting Nolan’s work. When The Prestige came out, The Illusionist was right around the corner. When Insomnia came out, it beat Mark Romanek’s One Hour Photo, another dark Robin Williams performance. And when Memento was being shopped around Scott Franks’ The Lookout was making the rounds as well. That film would later be made starring Joseph Gordon-Levitt.
- Nolan prefers editing to production. “There’s a point during production which you’re really almost doing a paint-by-numbers thing; you’re almost just fulfilling a set of creative obligations that you’ve set up for yourself in prep. So, even though some of it can be fun, and it’s where a lot of interesting and amazing things can happen, there’s a point where you just want to be done with it and get into the edit suite and mess around with what you’ve shot.”
- Nolan has one week of finishing touches on Inception.
- “I’ve always had a belief that however sophisticated a process of animation is, the audience can always, on some level, tell the difference between something that has been photographed and something that has been animated by an artist.”
- Nolan cited an example from Batman Begins where his visual effects crew pushed for more digital work. Nolan pulled off a shot of Bale landing at the bottom of the staircase in Arkham Asylum and told the team to match it. They came back with two videos, one was the CG test and the other the original take. Nolan said they were close, “but I could tell which one was the effect… which upset them a little bit.” But he realized it was close because they had a real shot to match to. When they had to do shots from nothing the level of reality was “far, far lower.”
- The trailer shot in Inception with the buildings crumbling into the sea is a combination CG and practical effects shot. They went to Morocco, shot the actors walking up from the water, with the waves coming in and some small representation of buildings to give the CG guys something to start with. So, he always tries to do always do something in camera to give the CG guys something to build on.
- Nolan first pitched Inception to Warner Bros right after Insomnia. They liked it, wanted him to write it, but he realized he couldn’t write it on assignment, that he’d have to do it on spec and come back with the finished thing. “So, I went off to write it figuring it would take me a couple of months and it took me ten years!”
- Ever since Nolan was a kid he wanted to make a movie about dreams. 10 years ago he settled on the concept of a heist movie set around the idea of a technology that allows people to share dreams.
- Nolan was struggling with the script so much because he said he didn’t have a strong emotional connection to the material. “I had written a heist film and heist movies it turns out, and it’s not something I really realized, tend to be deliberately superficial. They tend to be glamorous and fun and procedural based. They tend not to have massive emotional shifts and that wasn’t really enough for me to move forward.” He ultimately did, but that’s why it took so long.
- Leonardo DiCaprio had the task of “finding the emotional truth” to the character in the film, much like Guy Pearce did in Memento. Nolan spent months with DiCaprio to find emotional logic for every moment and every decision in the story.
- The interrogation scene between Batman and The Joker in The Dark Knight is Nolan’s favorite scene in the movie. He shot screen tests of the Joker make-up and the new Batsuit on that set, which is very much how he wanted it to look.
- He tussled with his DP, Wally Pfister, over the lighting of the interrogation room. Nolan didn’t want to do the typical dark and shadowy interrogation scene, so instead he insisted on very hot key lighting (five stops over for you camera nerds).
- Said one of the biggest technical challenges of doing that was making the Batsuit look good fully lit. “We could never have done that scene with the Batsuit that we used for Batman Begins. It simply didn’t have the quality for the one we built for The Dark Knight.”
- This scene was also put early in the schedule. Nolan talked to Heath about it and felt strongly that by putting one of the big Joker scenes early in the shoot would be a great way of breaking the ice and, hopefully, give him and all of them the confidence that they were going in the right direction with the character. They shot the interrogation scene in the second week.
- So, Nolan loves this scene for all those reasons plus it’s the first time we really get to see just how fueled by rage Batman is as a character.
- They built that set in a building in London. It was the police station in Batman Begins, went back for The Dark Knight and then shot there again with Inception. “It’s just a good, old building with a lot of texture.”
- “Heath was in awe of Gary (Oldman), as all young actors are.”
- Nolan’s films have been about haunted figures to a film… so how was he drawn to produce Superman? “As you said, it’s something I’m doing as a producer. Obviously I’m not directing it, but my involvement in it is quite specific. While David Goyer and myself were wrestling with the story for another Batman film as we got stuck he said to me, kind of out of the blue one day, that he had a great idea for how to take on Superman. I thought it was terrific and I just felt like I didn’t want it to not get done, so I went to the studio and said, ‘Let’s have a crack at this.’ That’s the nature of my involvement.”
- Speaking of, Richard Donner’s Superman was very influential to Nolan on Batman Begins. “I literally pitched the studio my take on Batman by saying I wanted to make the Batman film that had never been made in 1978 or 1979.” He was attracted to the Dick Donner take of putting an extraordinary hero in an ordinary world.
- He told the studio he wanted to shoot just like they did (in an American city for locations and then in English studios), he wanted to cast like they did, build an ensemble. “Now all these superhero movies come out and they have these great casts, but when we did Batman Begins I was looking back at that movie. They had Gene Hackman and Marlon Brando and Glenn Ford and all these incredible actors around the principals. That’s how I got permission from the studio to cast up this comic book movie.”
- On Tim Burton’s Batman: “I think what Tim Burton did with Batman was absolutely extraordinary, but it was very idiosyncratic. It’s really kind of a mad studio film, really.”
- Nolan is obsessed with Blade Runner. “That’s a film I’ve seen hundreds of times. I’m one of those people that knows every single detail of that movie.” Blade Runner spoke to Nolan at an early age (he saw it when he was 13) and it kind of defined the kind of movie Nolan wanted to make. He loves how it rewards multiple viewings, how you’ll see something new each time you watch it.
- Nolan screened Pink Floyd’s The Wall to the cast and crew before they started shooting Inception. He does that a lot, screens movies for the crew and see if that inspires anything for the project they’re working on.
- He’s able to use a screening room at Warner Bros. “That’s a good part of being a film director. You can call up a studio and get a film print of a movie!”
- Is Michael Caine Nolan’s lucky charm? “He claims to be my lucky charm. The problem I’ve faced, and the reason he’s in Inception, is that once someone has said that to you what are you going to do?” Lots of laughs. “He’s actually just a terrific person to work with. His movie star charisma is just extraordinary. He’s a lovely, professional guy to work with and the crew and the young cast all behave much better when he’s around. He’s very valuable!”
- Cillian Murphy gave a killer screen test when he can in to read for the Batman role on Batman Begins. So good, in fact, that when Nolan suggested him for the villain role the studio said okay right away, which he thought was unheard of for a major villain in a Batman movie to be such an unknown (to the masses, obviously) actor.
- Chris Nolan doesn’t look at the internet. “I think I realized at a very early stage on Batman Begins that it wouldn’t be helpful to look at what everybody was saying.” Nolan felt like all he could do was deliver the movie he wanted to see and if he tried to accommodate everybody the movie would have been a mess.
- And no, Cher is not in the next Batman movie.
- He doesn’t have email or cell phone. “It gives me a little more time to think.”
- Ed Brubaker asked the first question from the audience. He read a lot of Nolan’s screenplays and complimented them as being some of the tightest screenplays Brubaker has ever read. He wanted to know more about that process.
- Nolan wanted to point out that when you’re reading a published screenplay “you’re reading something that’s 14 or 15 drafts in because they publish the shooting draft which includes all the revisions from production.”
- Nolan doesn’t have a writing credit on Insomnia, but he wrote the last draft himself.
- Nolan’s first drafts very rarely get read (“in fact they very rarely leave my house!”). He called his first drafts “rambling.”
- He doesn’t outline and generally starts from page one and tries to write in a linear fashion. Even when the story is non-linear.
- Nolan’s first film, Following, was written chronologically and then, at the script stage, he edited it to make it non-linear as he had diagramed it out. He found that very difficult because there was an enormous amount of rewriting to make it flow right together.
- When it came to Memento, he thought it was important to write the film the way the audience would see it unfold, instead of doing it like he did Following.
- While he doesn’t outline, Nolan does draw a lot of diagrams and sticks stuff all over his walls. “It all gets a bit Beautiful Mind by the end of it.”
- “I always start with story rather than characters. When I write I try to write from the point of view of defining a character through action. That way having the narrative shifts define what we think of the characters. That’s why I love film noir crime fiction because double-crosses, twists and turns… you’re constantly readdressing your opinion of the characters and you’re reassessing who you think those people are. I find that a really interesting and very strong form of characterization, but it means putting story first and then just seeing where that leads the characters.”
- When it comes to writing dialogue, like the Joker’s multiple origin stories in The Dark Knight, Nolan tends to write it free-form and it can go on for three or four pages. Then he spends days and days editing it down. “I try not to stop an idea before it is born. In this way I throw it all out there and then edit it down. It really is like editing. You write a bunch of dailies and then you edit it together into a comprehensible form.”
- Nolan attributes The Dark Knight’s success to people liking Batman Begins. When BB was released the idea of rebooting a franchise was new and they didn’t know exactly how to market it… plus it hadn’t been that long since the previous Batman movies and there was some distrust (read: people thought it could be another shitty Batman movie) from the audience.
- He also says Heath Ledger’s performance was also a large factor. He noticed when people started seeing glimpses of his performance they could already tell it was going to be extraordinary.
- Christopher Nolan on 3-D: He’s not a huge fan of 3-D (which got a lot of cheers, surprisingly), but said that if people want to watch stereoscopic imaging then there’s no question that’s what the studios are going to make and that’s what he’ll be doing.
- He thinks 3-D vs. 2-D is a misnomer. “The whole point of cinematic imagery is that it is three dimensional. We work in three dimensions. 95% of our depth cues come from resolution and color and so forth, so I think the idea of called a movie a 2-D movie a 2-D movie is a little misleading.”
- They did post-conversion tests on Inception and “it worked quite well, actually. It looked really good, in fact, but it takes some time and we didn’t have time to do it to the standard I would be happy with.”
- “On a technical level I think it’s fascinating. On an experiential level I find the dimness of the image extremely alienating. The truth of it is, when you watch a film you’re looking at 16 foot-lamberts. When you watch it through any of the conventional 3-D processes you get about 3 foot-lamberts. It’s a massive difference.
You’re not that aware of it because once you’re in that world your eye compensates, but having struggled for years to get theaters to get up to the proper brightness you’re now sticking polarized filters into this thing and we’re going back worse than we were.”
- Also from a shooting standpoint, Nolan has even more issues with 3-D: “It requires shooting on video, if you mask it to 2.40 you’re only getting 800 or 900 lines of resolution. You have to use a beam-splitter.”
- Nolan doesn’t use use zoom lenses, only primes, because the image quality isn’t sharp enough on the long end of a zoom, so the idea of shooting a whole film through a beam-splitter doesn’t appeal to him. “There are enormous compromises, in other words.”
- Post-conversion 3-D he believes is the only way he’d be able to work with the format, “but it’s really up to the audience to decide what they want to see and how they watch their films.”
I don’t particularly love 3-D and I don’t hate it, either, but I gotta say hearing Christopher Nolan speak about it from the point of view of making a movie and watching a movie really kind of hit home with me. The dude won’t compromise the image on the screen and I LOVE that about his work.
Hope you guys enjoyed the piece. Now I’m off to see Ridley Scott screen Alien and Blade Runner!!!
-Quint
quint@aintitcool.com
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In a recent interview, he described Superman as "alien" and "other-worldly." I have tremendous respect for Nolan, but that's not true. Superman may have been born in another world, but he was raised human and at his core is as human an any other human being. That's the way Jonathan and Martha Kent raised him.
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Jun 13, 2010 3:43:54 PM CDT
I’ve noticed it’s become kind of trendy to dismiss this film
by theguilty1
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Jun 13, 2010 3:43:59 PM CDT
"I’ve noticed it’s become kind of trendy to dismiss this film
by theguilty1
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This guy is tight lipped on Dark Knight! I wish there would've been more!
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I've also never seen The Wall without taking hallucinogens first. I don't think I could watch it with a straight head to be honest.
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When Superman arrives you will all see how a real Superman movie musts be made. All of geekry will be astonished by its briliance.IN NOLAN WE TRUST
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But we all know the story, no need to re-cap it in the article.
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the film is great and a massive massive success. of course the daggers are out for it.
its fine to not like it asnd of course you can have an opinion but when you read typical internet hyperbole "its a fucking disaster" "a piece of shit" which you do see then they are talking absolute crap.
I love really love batman begins. a lot. its amazing as well but i do not understand how anyone could prefer that to dark knight. does dark knight have flaws?? of course - but its a great film and if it had bombed the same folks who really pile on it would be claiming it a masterpiece. -
Fascinating read. Nolan just GETS IT. In awe of his technical expertise and appreciation for FILM as both a filmmaker and a member of the audience. I'm a bit iffy on his take on Superman as "alien / other-worldly" - for the same reason a talkbacker above pointed out - but I can't think of anyone I'd rather trust to make Supes fly onscreen again. And y'know, give Routh another, better, shot? Dude doesn't deserve to go down like a Lazenby. Thank God Nolan's out there making ORIGINAL, thinking movies. (And yeah, I'm still looking forward to The A-Team, doesn't mean I appreciate the gulf of difference between remakes and reboots and Nolan's efforts.) And to whomever it has become to trendy to knock The Dark Knight? Sheesh. That film knocks my fuckin' socks off each and every time. Not as a comic book adaptation. Not as a Bat-movie. Just as a FILM.
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Whoa.
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Jun 13, 2010 4:00:17 PM CDT
"I’ve noticed it’s become kind of trendy to dismiss this film...
by theguilty1
Shit, I don't know why the hell that just posted three times.....
Anyways, it's not "trendy"...it's because people are finally getting a clue. I was a die-hard "TDK is the greatest superhero movie ever made" until after multiple viewings. I started realizing that it really pales in comparison to Batman Begins. The saving grace of TDK is Harvey Dent. Everything that was fun and exciting about BB was sucked out of TDK. Ledger's Joker wasn't this amazing performance everyone wanted to believe it was. Good? Absolutely. But "one of the greatest performances of all-time", as people seem to think it is? Hell no. You can slam me all you want, but it's true. -
then go get Rutger Hauer back for the next batman!!
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Jun 13, 2010 4:04:02 PM CDT
Nolan won't get an Xmas card from Cameron
by bp_drills_america_a_new_asshole
"We're worse off than before with 3D". Ouch! Cameron just spewed his coffee through his nostrils. Nolan is the man, I have nothing but respect and admiration for the guy. Can't with for Scott to talk about Alien and Bladerunner.
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Jun 13, 2010 4:04:57 PM CDT
Alien and Blade Runner w/ Ridley Scott, in the house...
by jimmy rabbitte
That's a prime ticket right there.
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Nice to see some love for "Insomnia". Gorgeous film and really well acted. I actually think it's a better crafted film than the European original.
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I only say seems, because I've never met the guy. But every time this guy talks, you can tell that he really cares about what he's doing, and is as much a film lover as he is a director. It's a nice change of pace from the Ratners and the Bays that seem to dominate Hollywood nowadays, who are just in it for bragging rights.
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That was probably the last Robin Williams' that I loved.Actually, that's a lie. I also like that really black comedy he did recently. I've forgotten the name of it but, man, that was dark. And funny.
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The special features on the Dark Knight DVD were terrible.
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Jun 13, 2010 4:07:33 PM CDT
Jonathon Nolan was asked if he wanted to say anything
by richard_gere_raped_my_gerbil
Jonathan Nolan: "No"
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Was another of his "depth clues", means when one thing is in front of another. The event was very cool, the theater was about 95% full. There was a funny moment before the Q&A when my friend bumped my shoulder and gestured behind her - yes there was Mr. Nolan. He really does have a laser-lock focus. The questions from the audience were a little disappointing, "Were you surprised by the success of the Dark Knight?" Eh, considering he only took like 5 questions they seemed like a waste of an opportunity. Whatever, it was a thrill to hear him talk. And MAJOR PROPS to his take on 3D. I deal with color balance all the time and yes, it sucks that the glasses dim the image.
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is the name
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cher is gonna be catwoman.
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Absolutely goddamn right.
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...now where was I...
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That's the one! A great movie!
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INSOMNIA is "...something a billion times more interesting and nuanced..." than THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS?!?! I think not. I hope you meant that as a continuation of your initial thoughts that it might be a LAMBS rip-off. Because TSOTL is a horror masterpiece while INSOMINIA is, frankly, a fairly decent thriller.Anyway, nice write-up on one of the best directors working today. Sounded like a cool experience.
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I totally dig Nolan's other films, but Nolan's remake of INSOMNIA was pretty weak compared to the original. Skarsgard was better in the cop role than Pacino, I never bought Swank's character, and the whole end sequence was way too Hollywood and seemed to drag on for too long. I confess that I can't completely look at Nolan's version objectively after having loved the hell out of the original, but to me Nolan's INSOMNIA is his weakest film.
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Jun 13, 2010 4:19:13 PM CDT
INCEPTION WILL BE THE BEST MOVIE OF 2010. FACT!
by richard_gere_raped_my_gerbil
....As TehCreepyThinMan would say.
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"he couldn’t write it on assignment, that he’d have to do it on spec"
In film making terminology what does this mean? I'm not making a joke. What does it mean? -
I love when he said that his first drafts are "ramblings" that "never leave the house". He doesn't have the disgusting arrogance of most American directors. And did someone ACTUALLY ask him if Cher would be Catwoman? OMG what a fucking waste of a question.
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How could Superman be anything other than otherworldly alien? Are you telling me if there was a man from outer space who could pick up cars and fly around, you wouldn't think nothing of it because his parents were good old aw shucks salt of the earth people? Fuck no, it'd be creepy and weird and terrifying. He made it pretty clear he likes to make an emotional connection to the film, what regular joe could realistically connect with an alien like that?
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heh i see you keep using my quote i wrote one month ago in another talkback.but its true.in Nolan we trust.
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but, at least he'll do Batman 3.
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IN NOLAN WE TRUST
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The problem with Nolan talking about an "emotional connection" he has to make when he conceives his films is...there aren't that many in his produced movies. I think his aesthetic is rather cold, akin to Hitchcock. However, unlike Hitch, I just don't see the big deal over this guy (Nolan). Wasn't impressed with 'Memento' other than its gimmick, 'Insomnia' was a bore other than Robin Williams' performance, 'Batman Begins' was interesting and is a more exciting film than 'The Dark Knight,' if you ask me...'Inception' looks like perhaps the most interesting thing he's done (if it doesn't rip off "Dark City" or "Open Your Eyes" too much)...but for me, that's not saying much. I'm just not into his movies...and I think 'Superman' will rise or fall depending on who directs...THAT one NEEDS EMOTION...if its a 'Nolan' cold-feeling protege, the movie will be no better than the hollow 'Returns,' methinks...
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Nerds just love monorails!
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I'll credit Nolan with 'going against the grain' with right now, is his rather strong opinion about 3-D, i.e. NOT turning everything into it, "just because"...He and G. del Toro are two of the few who are fighting that propaganda..
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I think "In Nolan We Trust" actually comes from AsimovLives who has been using it since last year.I'm wondering where he is. This is the second TB he's not appeared on, despite being related to the only two topics (Star Trek and Nolan) that he's interested in!
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on assignment means that the studio would give him cash and a possible commitment to begin preproduction on the script. on spec means the studio would just take a look at it, make no promises, and definitely not pay him for the trouble of even writing it if they decided to pass on it.
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is way more interesting than the dull boat/harbor 'sacrifice' scene in TDK...
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"The Silence of the Lambs." Not sure how that film started out ripping it off, but wow, what a complete swing and a miss. Outside of that, very nice interview information. I love how Nolan works and how he thinks. It doesn't seem like there's a formulaic bone in his body, if it sucks, he knows it and he fixes it. Let's hope it stays that way for the rest of his career. Damn, would've loved to have been at both of those premiere's. Hope he posts the Ridley Scott Q and A.
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...if the report had mentioned JJ Abrams, Asi would've been here immediately, raging on and on, as per usual.
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Jun 13, 2010 4:40:48 PM CDT
Mr. Murdoch: IS there a chance the track might bend?
by jaylenotookmyjob
... not on your life my Irish friend!
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AsimovLives passed away this weekend, he fell off a cliff in new zealand. Jeff Goldblum waved hello as he fell to his doom. once on the bottom he ran into Ares God of War himself, Kevin Smith.
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Did Nolan perhaps mean that he would feel less restricted in his mind, or less stressed by the studio, if he wrote his script on spec/on his own, rather than "as an assignment"..? That's something I can imagine him saying...kind of pretentious, but..."whatev"
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and i have said it before and i will say it again.Nolan,despite that he did a great job with Bats,he is not suitable for the reboot of Superman.That doesnt mean that his movie wont be great,BUT it wont be very faithful to the real character of Superman.Basically,like in Bats,he seems to approach Superman with the same way that he approached Batman,very realistically and very seriously BUT that approach is wrong.
Donner's Superman,which personally i consider the best super-hero comic movie ever,had the perfect approach when translating the comic character into the silver screen: verisimilitude,americana,epic-ness,entertainment and strong characterization/drama.
Just look at the best scene with Superman in all the goddamn media:
http://tinyurl.com/mclmow
that scene shows perfectly what Superman is all about: Man (his love for Lois) and God (using his powers to save her). -
No. Any creepy, alien feelings he has had have been dealt with and he accepts his place on Earth and considers our world his home. It's the only home he has ever known.
I don't want to see angsty "Where do I belong? I'm different. No one on this planet understands me" Superman. Because at the end of the film he'll just come to the realization that Earth is his home and I don't want to waste two hours of him just going through the motions to come to this conclusion just too add melodram for melodrama's sake.
Sure he might have feelings of lonliness but it should not be the point of the movie.
He's Superman. He's smart. Here is his thought process: "I came from an alien world to this world full of wonderful people with dangerous possibilities. I can make a difference. I know what is right and what must be done."
Maybe an angsty SuperBOY movie but Superman, no. He's made his peace and now he is a guardian for the just and innocent. -
Thanks.
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The only way 3D is going to really catch on with people is if they figure out how to do it without people wearing the glasses. Otherwise its shelf life is going to be short.
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Bryan Singer just proved that what works in one franchise doesn't always apply to another.
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3D isn't a fad if some lazy directors can't figure out a way to make it work.
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I have nothing but high hopes for Nolans name being attached to the project. I think Routh was a great Supes/Kent and if he and Goyer can bring to the project the same level of story they brough to Batman Begins i'm fucking sold! Just like with Batman,I don't think any of us understand why it has taken so many years to get a Superman or Batman movie filmed correctly.
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On vacation? Dead? Posting under a new handle? Abducted by aliens? And where is that other regular weirdo Ominus? The mystery deepens...
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...A SUPERMAN movie should be about a super-man wrestling with his morals for the emotional connection. Imagine you could squish your worst enemy like a bug - one swipe of your arm and the guy is a red smear on the floor. Why wouldn't you do it? Because you've set yourself up as the guardian of truth, justice, and the American Way. And that makes you the same kind of monster your enemy is. You got all that power, yet you can't just do what you want with it. But the bad guys can do what they want...
Put a moral dilemma like the one the Joker set at the end of THE DARK KNIGHT in there, and you have a conflicted Superman who can do all the epic stuff we WANT to see, but who will always be one step BEHIND the bad guys because he's bound by his own rules of fairness and what is right - and the bad guys aren't. There's enough meat in there for Nolan to chew on. He's got a ways to go to stop being this generation's Kubrick, though - because his films, intelligent, spectacular and intricate though they may be, are COLD. Yes, even the BATMAN movies. ESPECIALLY the BATMAN movies. He needs to give us some protagonists we can actualy identify with and root for, rather than the aloof but boring characters we've had thus far, and look to be getting again in INCEPTION. -
Nolan prefers imax and the first 10m of TDK was a great advertisement for this projection format,but unfortunately for him Avatar's 3D success overshadowed the imax format to become more widely adapted.yes i know Avatar is supposedly to get experienced better in Imax 3D,but its easier for a common theater to adapt to the 3D format rather than the imax format.
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Jun 13, 2010 4:56:51 PM CDT
In fact, this is why THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS is so great...
by spud mcspud
...Because if there's one graphic novel that gets the duality and the opposition in ethics than drives Superman and Batman - and exploits them more fully than any other - it's Frank Miller's THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. I'm not the biggest Miller fan, but that GN is fucking amazing, and should just be put up there on the big screen, not ONE WORD or panel altered...
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Jun 13, 2010 4:57:42 PM CDT
Superman's not dark. He's grand! The ultimate source of Hope!
by kal reeve
He's the source of decency and good morals. A farmboy raised good and raised to grow good crops. And Superman's crop is hope, truth, justice.
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Jun 13, 2010 4:59:56 PM CDT
Inception might be the #2 movie its opening weekend
by annie_michael_hall
With Sorcerer's Apprentice at #1. But I do think Inception will be the better film - obviously.
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Jun 13, 2010 5:00:48 PM CDT
Why are you surprised people don't want 3D being shoved
by coughlins laws
down their throats? It was really nice to see a gimmick movie like Avatar that was made specifically for 3D, but it's a novelty. Not everyone likes it and most people do not want it all the time. It's a passing fad. Movies made just in 3D will make less and less money...
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Superman makes people smile and inspires good within them. The mere presence of Superman should make one want to be a better, kinder person who does right by others.
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Involved Krypton not blowing up. And Lex Luthor being an alien.
It's funny that that script, that we all destroyed years ago, would actually have a lot of fans now due to it becoming OK to change origins for "Reboots" -
I'm a huge Nolan fan, and as much as I liked TDK, it most certainly was not a tight script. It's about 20 minutes and the script seems to unravel a bit in the 2nd and 3rd acts. Anything with Two-Face feels unneccisary. I still think it's the finest superhero movie ever made, though.
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Jun 13, 2010 5:05:09 PM CDT
Nolan Will Approach Superman As He Did With Bruce Wayne
by richard_gere_raped_my_gerbil
One of the reasons Batman Begins works is that it takes its time to show Wayne evolving into Batman. The audience sees where Bruce's interest in fear begins, his lack of power at what happens to his parents (and what happens to their killer) and why he eventually needs to wear a costumeI have no doubt that Superman will be approached in the same way. I suspect (and hope) we won't get another origin story, but we might get a similar narrative structure to that of Batman Begins. Hopefully it will peel back the layers of Superman and show why he became the man he did, and where his personal rules come from. I also hope they'll give him a nemesis who attempts to force him into breaking those rules, just as The Joker did with Batman in TDK.
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i finally decided to change my nick since i use the Killik nick in almost all my other accounts for years now.well i should have done it a long time ago,but you always postpone something for the next day and the next day and so on,and time passes before you notice it.
meanwhile for the last days i had some obligations to do in my personal life,thats why i didnt have time to visit the talkbacks.i dont even know what movies have premiered in the last 2 weeks.i suppose something similar might have happened with Asimovlives.that or he went to USA to murder JJ.ha.
anyway you know what they say: Life are the things that happen to you,when you are planning something...i hope from tomorrow i will start reading the talkbacks again. -
Jun 13, 2010 5:12:43 PM CDT
Re: Nolan Will Approach Superman As He Did With Bruce Wayne
by acquanetta
Here's hoping Nolan doesn't take an hour to tell us where Superman came from. I was never that fond of taking so long to convey such simple details.
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And I like Nolan very much for it.
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route then fuck it.Besides why should the new movie be about the origin of Superman? we know where Supes comes from and regardless SR's flaws,you must agree that it used very well the flashbacks in order to shed more light in Supes's character and link to Donner's movie.we dont need an origin movie,we need an adventure.
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Jun 13, 2010 5:19:32 PM CDT
I'm not saying they'll go the Smallville route
by richard_gere_raped_my_gerbil
Or at least not in depth. I think the narrative structure will be jumbled up a bit so that we have flashbacks at the relevant times to give us a deeper understanding into Superman's personality. I'm certain that Nolan understands the audience doesn't need yet ANOTHER origin movie.
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I know a lot of people here hake Luthor and don't want to see him in another Supes movie, but this interview gives me confidence that he will be.
Luthor IS Superman's Joker. While he might not be the physical challenge he does challenge Superman's morality more than any other villain. -
Jun 13, 2010 5:22:44 PM CDT
I wonder who Nolan will pick as the director?
by richard_gere_raped_my_gerbil
That, of course, is the key question (or, at least, one of two - the other being who is cast in the central role) regarding whether the new Superman will work.
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And that proves just how far out to sea Nolan is on Batman. He just doesn't understand the character. Nolan thinks Batman is some kind of unhinged ragetard who would walk into an interrogation room and then beat the holy shit out of a defenseless Joker.
Is that Batman? No way, no how. Batman is in CONTROL. He has to be to hold the upper hand in the dangerous world he inhabits. He is a detective. He is rational, analytical and precise.
Anyone who thinks otherwise, including Nolan, simply do not understand Batman. Which is why, when all's said and done, TDK is a shoddy movie. It has a bad screenplay. The director and screenwriters woefully misinterpreted THE LEAD CHARACTER. Who, by the way, doesn't appear as the Lead Character IN HIS OWN MOVIE. The bad guy does.
Quint, if you have trouble recognizing this and wonder why everyone is not "in awe of The Dark Knight" then you should be seriously concerned, as you are a professional critic. You need to be able to identify badly written movies.
I shudder to think what Nolan will do to Superman. You think Superman Returns was bad? Just wait to Nolan gets a hold of the Man of Steel. -
I'm not the biggest fan of Nolan (TDK was vastly overrated upon my first and only viewing) but I like reading about director's thought processes and such.
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Jun 13, 2010 5:25:03 PM CDT
BTW if Nolan was trying to make the Batman of '78 or '79
by continentalop
He should have cast a young, ex-Disney actor by the name of Kurt Russell to play Bruce Wayne/Batman.
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..voiced by some others recently as well (here or elsewhere) is to set up his story where he is already established in Metropolis as Supes and Clark, but doesn't yet know the full extent of his origins...which would be discovered by him throughout the film, most suitably through an encounter with Brainiac, who is intimately involved somehow (no, not *that* way..). Lex would be present, someone Supes already has tangled with...but a supporting role... That premise would be something I'd be interested in seeing...perhaps even begin the film straight-off in the middle of a fight, in-medias-res, a la Abrams' drafts...would definitely give people a different impression right off the bat. The second film could open with an even more expansive flashback detailing further mysteries/mythologies of Krypton, setting up that film's plot. Hearing talk of "Kryptonian mythology" in the trades, I suspect Goyer might be moving somewhat towards a similar direction...
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Batman... Took her to the movies
Batman... Thought it was groovy
Now that earwig is gnawing at your soul
If you deposit money in my acct I will stop the pain
you ville comply! -
Nolan is simply one of the best in the industry right now. He gets it pure and simple.
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Nolan means that he wrote the script on his own and then sold it to the studio, as opposed to writing it on their timetable.
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I think BB is a C and TDK is a B+ movie. But I have come to realize that TDK really isn't a Batman movie, it is an extended metaphor for the occupation of Iraq. In some ways it makes it a better film for me to watch, and in other ways it annoys me that he shoe horned Batman into such a role.
But I have come to realize it isn't really the Batman of the comics nor was that Nolan's intent for him to really be that character. Not saying that lets him of the hook one way or another but just what he was going for. -
This was mentioned elsewhere, but "Sloan" from Entourage will be playing the Catwoman in the third Batman film.
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Hes the orphan child of a dead world.The last of his kind living on a alien planet.He protects humanity but he will never be a human.Also his lifespan will see him live for thousands of years after the humans he has made connections with are dead and buried.
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WHO superman is, is very human.WHAT superman is, is alien and otherworldly.
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Where was this confirmed?
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Have Clark kent come out as Superman so he can just be himself. But, have "clark" still work at the Daily Planet. Then he doesn't have to be alien anymore.
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what is was like to kiss Chris Reeve
lucky bastard -
damn no edit function
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Jun 13, 2010 5:44:30 PM CDT
No Sailor, I didn't say Superman would feel weird
by guy who got a headache and accidentally
I wasn't talking about Superman, I was talking about us, regular people, Superman being out there in the real world would be bizarre and terrifying to us, no matter who raised him. Someone said Superman shouldn't be alien and otherworldly, I'm saying like hell. Maybe in the comics he comes down out of the sky in his bright blue tights and everyone is okay with that, it's fucking weird in the real world.
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That's a good point.
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"I’m especially fond of his scientific distrust of 3-D as a viable and ongoing format."That's because you're a moron, Quint, and always have been, just like Devin Faraci and all the other webmaster mouthbreathers. As with CGI, 3D is simply another tool in the filmmaking palette. It can be used well or used badly. Unfortunately, a whole raft of fanboys, who don't know shit about the technicalities of filmmaking, wave their hatred of these technologies about as an ignorant badge of honor, making laughable blanket statements and clearly unable to make any kind of simple differentiations regarding said tools. The 3D in Alice in Wonderland and Clash of the Titans was garbage - sloppy post-conversion work grafted on at the last minute to make a cheap buck. In contrast, the native 3D work in Avatar was absolutely masterful and added immeasurably to the experience, drawing us into the dreamlike environment and even complimenting the themes of the film. I have no doubt that Scott and Scorsese's (to name but two) 3D work on the upcoming Alien prequels and Hugo Cabret is going to be equally masterful, rich in atmosphere and supporting the particular moods and content of those films. Heck, even such an iconoclast as Werner Herzog is using 3D for his next feature. So don't confuse cash-grab hackery with artistic use of a particular filmmaking tool. 3D is around to stay - make no mistake about that. Over time the crap will be weeded out and filmmakers will learn to use it well (the good ones anyway). Nolan, too, will be using 3D a few films down the line, as he seems to indicate above. I'm looking forward to Inception, but it would have been even better in high quality 3D; the film's exploration of dream space, and the particular lucid quality engendered by 3D, would have been an ideal fit for each other.
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I would think Superman himself would just feel like a mostly regular person, having been raised on earth his whole life, who just can't shake the feeling there's something off about him and he doesn't fit in. And he's got a job that has a huge amount of responsibility. Like a guy who lives in bumfuck arkansas and is gay, but also has a secret alter ego that is the president of the us. Yeah, that's what superman's all about. Now that I think about it that way, I'm surprised Singer failed so badly.
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had to fire up the theme to superman
hope them kids doing alright
They gotta be mid-late 20's by now -
the ending was foretold with the two little kids throwing snowballs at each other at the start of the movie.
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Jun 13, 2010 5:52:42 PM CDT
"drawing us into the dreamlike environment and even complimentin
by guy who got a headache and accidentally
Is a bullshit sentence that doesn't actually mean anything. And avatar was a fucking cartoon, might as well have just had pixar make it and saved more money on the production, would a got at least a half intelligent script out of it at least as well.
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Jun 13, 2010 6:05:47 PM CDT
Dark Knight 3D would have sucked ass
by best_little_whorehouse_on_caprica
Big Resident Evil ass
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...in no way is even an unarmed Joker ever considered "defenseless". That's the point of the Joker: he's just as intelligent, capavle and obsessed as Batman, just twisted and pur evil.
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...happens.
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The brilliance of TDK is in the GREAT SCRIPT. The various themes that are introduced early in the film and then revisited:
1. The hero who with time becomes the villain.
2. Alfred's solution to stopping the bandit in the jungle by "burning the jungle down" foreshadows Batman's solution to locating the Joker.
3. Joker's assertion during the interrogation scene that people are only as good as the situation allows them to be....that they would ultimately "toss you out" when the "chips are down". This is revisited with the dilemma on the boat and Batman's decision to be cast as a bay guy.
Others anyone? -
Give the superman job to Alfonso Cuarón.He can handle blockbuster and intelligent.
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Maybe your Batman isn't filled with rage, but mine is. The great thing about Batman is that he has stood the test of time, and encompassed myriad iterations. So after Nolan gets done with his BILLION DOLLAR take on The Bat, we can look forward to your interpretation. If I were you, I start pitching Warner Bros. now.
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Jun 13, 2010 6:13:56 PM CDT
GuyWhoShouldShutThe FuckUpLestHeEmbarassHimself
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Are there STILL clowns out there who absurdly think Avatar looked like a cartoon? Even our resident troll, Tranny Apologist, admitted that Avatar was, at the least, a technical marvel, so you know who are on the losing side.Dear fuckhead, what I just stated was far from menaningless plaver: most people would attest to the very dreamlike quality of that movie, particularly in IMAX, and the 3D most certainly complimented the themes, as the 3D perspective acted as the audiences' surrogate or 'avatar', allowing them to be drawn into the phantasmagoric wonderland of Pandora, and seeing things from the multilayered POV that revealed the texture and beauty of the planet. Seeing things through a new pair of eyes, a new perspective, if you will. 'I see you', you know, cunt? Heck, there were even crowd meeting scenes that seemed to blend in imperceptibly with the audience making the audience a part of the story. Obviously too subtle a match of narrative content and technology for your tastes, so the irony of a thickheaded cretin like you bleating about a 'half intelligent script' is palpably amusing.Now shut your fucking mouth before I embarass you some more, you fucking fool.
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couldnt agree more... and generally about his whole pragmatic and hands on philosophy on film and storytelling... i have loved him forever, i hope he continues his current reign of success for decades to come
I remember when people were calling nolan a hack and memento a fluke after insomnia, now people are writing glowing retrospective reviews (whereas I was in the first place)... i wrote my term paper on memento while it was in like 20 theatres and most people still hadnt heard of it.... and i was taken aback by the awe-inspiring atmosphere (fog/rocky cliff scene is amazing) and tension of insomnia.
i try to aviod trailers like the plague if I know I want to see something, but i just saw the most recent Inception trailer in theaters at the ATeam (sidenote: very enjoyable for what it was and should be), and was a bit unsure what was what, but hearing him describe the bank-robber analogy made it all gel instantly. Now I really cant wait for it (as if this visuals in the trailer alone werent enough). -
...Please, no more Lex Luthor. Give him a rest. Or at least, he's there in the background as a beloved (but actually corrupt) businessman. Only other villain I could think of that would work in a movie would be Brainiac, though. The Superman: TAS version always creeped me out and I like how he was tied in to the destruction of Krypton.
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and i agree.Inception with 3D would have managed to give an even better,more immersive dreamlike experience.
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"Why so serious?"
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with Superman finally obliterating Lex Luthor.As in the first 2 minutes of the film.He zaps Lex with the eye laser, he kills him forever.The film can now begin.
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The guy is pure talent, and a class act. In a sea of mediocrity, he gives hope.
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So your sick of the real estate scams? Well, just make a Luthor who isn't in the same mold as Gene Hackman and Kevin Spacey
The great thing about Luthor is he can be shaped to fit the era and your current audience's taste. He can be a con artist, a mad scientist, a billionaire, a criminal mastermind, a power mad politician, an armor wearing super-villain and a stand in for 1940s dictators. You're not just limited to another version of "Lex Luthor - Real Estate Scammer." -
Jun 13, 2010 6:25:04 PM CDT
Nolan's way of looking at big movies could save us all
by performingmonkey
He has his head screwed on over the whole 3D situation. YES it's technically brilliant but Nolan knows it only makes movies harder to make to a great standard. HIS standard. Btw casting is 90% of your job done. Insomnia - Pacino, Williams, excellent casting. Batman Begins - Neeson, Freeman, Bale, Caine, Murphy etc. (Katie Holmes the only slight slip-up, but she still performed) suddenly you're looking at a Batman movie with a brilliant ensemble like what Nolan was talking about regarding 1978 Superman. Perfection. There's truth in 99% percent of scenes in Batman Begins. Only 1% bullshit. That was then changed to 0% bullshit with The Dark Knight.
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Jun 13, 2010 6:29:45 PM CDT
Also, The DARK KNIGHT IS one of the greatest films ever,
by idrinkyourmilkshake
And lex luthor sucks because we all want a fist fight.A big ole physical fight between superman and another equally strong villian.It is Superman ,no? The guy flies, has super strength , x ray and laser eyes. How is Lex the villian in every film? Zod?
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James Cameron hasn't made a good film since terminator 2.People who like avatar probably think 2012 is amazing because of the cgi.Avatar was a crap movie whos aliens didn't look a tenth as realistic as the ones in a infinitely superior film that cost 1/25th of its budget(District 9).
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Everyone knows where Superman came from. There should be no time spent on Kypton showing him being sent to earth, the planet exploding, etc. That's the big problem with Superman movies, so much time is spent telling us shit we already know, which is why Superman 2 is so revered, because it was just Superman getting down to business and actually having some big battles. There was ONE enjoyable sequence in all of Superman returns, and that was when Supes was out actually stopping crime. But that was saddles for more love letters to the original film, another Lex Luthor real-estate scheme and more of Superman having no power. Besides Superman II, we've never had a movie where Superman fully uses his powers. Has he ever even punched something?
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Because if you remember the Joker was hardly a physical challenge to Batman. In fact Bats was very rarely in physical danger from the Joker or anyone else. Batman could beat the crap and takedown the Joker with one hand tied behind his back.
But the Joker challenged his intellect and, more importantly, Batman's own belief system. Batman has yet to fight a villain or even a thug you can really put up a fight that last more than 20 seconds (excluding Ra's).
Lex Luthor is Superman's Joker. The guy who challenges him not physically but his mind and his spirit. And plus, Lex Luthor is the guy who created Bizarro and Metallo (in some versions), who teamed up & reprogrammed Brainiac (the legendary Luthor-Brainiac teams) and freed Zod and the other evil Kryptonians from the Phantom Zone. He can always get someone else to do the actually fighting.
PS - Luthor is in every film because he is THE Superman foe. Name a Superman Elseworld's story without a version of Luthor in it? None, because he is Supes opposite number. -
one small reminder:
2.7 BILLION dollars IN B.O and Bluray/DVD sale records.
now crawl back to your basements. -
Ok sure it is not really a heist movie, rather a theft movie, but Nolan's first masterpiece is a must see, and you'll see what it means when it's all about writing...
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My child arrived just the other day
He came to the world in the usual way
But there were planes to catch and bills to pay
He learned to walk while I was away
And he was talkin' 'fore I knew it, and as he grew
He'd say "I'm gonna be like you dad
You know I'm gonna be like you"
And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man on the moon
When you comin' home dad?
I don't know when, but we'll get together then son
You know we'll have a good time then
My son turned ten just the other day
He said, "Thanks for the ball, Dad, come on let's play
Can you teach me to throw", I said "Not today
I got a lot to do", he said, "That's ok"
And he walked away but his smile never dimmed
And said, "I'm gonna be like him, yeah
You know I'm gonna be like him"
And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man on the moon
When you comin' home son?
I don't know when, but we'll get together then son
You know we'll have a good time then
Well, he came home from college just the other day
So much like a man I just had to say
"Son, I'm proud of you, can you sit for a while?"
He shook his head and said with a smile
"What I'd really like, Dad, is to borrow the car keys
See you later, can I have them please?"
And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man on the moon
When you comin' home son?
I don't know when, but we'll get together then son
You know we'll have a good time then
I've long since retired, my son's moved away
I called him up just the other day
I said, "I'd like to see you if you don't mind"
He said, "I'd love to, Dad, if I can find the time
You see my new job's a hassle and kids have the flu
But it's sure nice talking to you, Dad
It's been sure nice talking to you"
And as I hung up the phone it occurred to me
He'd grown up just like me
My boy was just like me
And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man on the moon
When you comin' home son?
I don't know when, but we'll get together then son
You know we'll have a good time then -
I LOVED IT.I think it's solid (this is entertainment by the way...)and really just came off as a good drama and felt absolutely "believable".This is versus 99% of other comic book films that just never create the illusion of what we;re watching as a "real world".Nolan really shows us the logic between everything we see on screen.Anyhow,you comparing Batman and the joker to what I said about Superman needing a physical challenge...you missed the point.Batman is a normal man,as is joker.Joker defeats batman psychologically in that scene, which in turns saves the joker from a further beatdown,Essentially he wins.And with Superman, he's STRONG,can fly,etc. So, Lex is not a physical challenge.So, although he is CANON to Superman and the mythology...look at batman, look what happens when you dare to think outside the box.And Lex was just lame (presented as comical foil).Even smallville portrayed Lex rather decently.In the film though, bring on a new villian.And go rewatch the DARK KNIGHT.That film is brilliant.
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Jun 13, 2010 6:47:26 PM CDT
"What can possibly be said about The Dark Knight that hasn’t bee
by flip63hole
Ummm, "who cares?" comes to mind. Still haven't stayed awake through the whole thing and I saw it the first weekend it came out. No better than the one before. Time for a reboot...
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I feel asleep the first time I saw it too,opening weekend.And, I remember just not liking the film.Can't explain it.Then,I saw it in IMAX, and something clicked.It was amazing.And when it came to dvd,it got better.Now,I think it's badass.
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Batman was precise and in complete control in the other Batman films, especially in "Batman and Robin." He was a cardboard character in those movies and that's what Batman is supposed to be. No rage, no emotion, COMPLETE CONTROL and stewing over his dead parents in every fucking movie. Now, I for one think those other films blew ass, but that's just me, I prefer Nolan's films where Batman is actually human, even if he's not supposed to be. STAR HUMP'S a fucking IDIOT. He'll probably post next that "Batman Returns" is the best batman movie or some shit like that. I'm equally perplexed at how stupid people really get. Star Hump has a right to his opinion, but fuck that!!!
By the way, quit posting "CONFIRMED Betty White as Catwoman" posts, they're fucking stupid!!!!! -
And for it to take place in the mind? That's the bomb diggity.
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Gordon meeting Bats on the rooftop at the end of "Begins" = great, "plausible" scene concerning everything that has happened before -- probably the best scene in the movie, actually. Gordon, Dent, Bats meeting on the rooftop in "The Dark Knight" = OK, you're stretching it Nolan (you too, Bale, with your "voice"), but I'll go with it. Gordon allowing Batman "a few minutes with the scene" while the other cops stand idly by with a dumbfounded look, and/or are "ordered" to leave the crime scene by Gordon (either the vault scene, or later), making them question their own need to be there in the first place -- i.e. "If Batman can be BOTH the physical and mental/detective deterrent in this town, why the F to they need us?" THAT's where Nolan loses me. = IMPLAUSIBLE considering his so-called "REALISTIC" tone built up so far. The problem with making Batman "interact" with more than just Gordon and be "realistic" is that everything he does now seems out-of-sync with any plausibility that you're supposed to believe in... Just one guy's opinion.
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i dont particularly like BR,but i know a lot of people who love it and consider it the best Bats film ever,and i understand the reasons for that.From another perspective,BR is rightfully the superior batman film to DK,but not respecting this opinion and calling names to the people who support it,its plain idiotic and uncivilized from your part.
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Why can't Lex be presented in the same way as the Joker? A man who thinks outside of the box? When he first appeared in 1939 he wasn't doing real estate scams or was even a corrupt businessman, he was a stand in for Hitler & Stalin. He was an arms dealer with a vast organization trying to start a war between two European countries to help start his bid for power.
Think about the potential of a TRULY evil Luthor. Superman, an omnipotent but incredibly moral foe, is threatening him Lex so what is his only options? How about telling Supes he has planted bombs that will kill innocent people if Superman so much as touches him? How about deciding to hit Superman were it really will hurt by targeting those he loves like Lois Lane? How about creating situations that tax both Superman's powers and his moral stance?
And like I said he can just create or recruit someone to physically challenge Supes. Make a clone of Superman that mutates into Bizarro or contact and team up with an alien computer like Brainiac.
I personally want to see Luthor in the new Superman movie because I would love to see a new, evil interpretation of the character. -
1939 was the Ultra-Humanite. I wouldn't mind if they had him as the villain though.
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I like the Bats, Gordon, Mayor scene in Batman RETURNS ("Looks like the circus gang is back! Bats: "We'll see...", never looking at Gordon or changing his movement as he continues walking away) MORE than anything Nolan has concocted, save perhaps the final scene of "Begins."
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Welling's earned the S
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1) Memento
2) The Prestige
3) Batman Begins
4) The Dark Knight
5) Insomnia
6) Following -
Could really work, I think. It would be impossible for Superman to function in the real world, as it is now. Other countries would complain he gives the US an unfair advantage. Local law enforcement would complain he's doing their jobs and making them irrelevant, there would be countless lawsuits over property damage. The government would try to weaponize him. The media would blast every decision he made: if he saved a bus full of children in Metropolis, how come he couldn't save two African kids killed by a warlord on the same day? I'm sure some people would worship him as a deity or proclaim him as the messiah, while others would think he was the antichrist. If they can pull off something like this, I tihnk they could really make a great Superman movie. There's internal conflict in Superman, with trying to be a beacon of good and virtue that nobody wants to see, Lex Luthor can be anything, whether it's a low level con man who sees the potential to be a constant "victim" of Superman, or a George-Soros type billionaire who plays to liberal "the rest of the world should get Superman" mentality, etc.
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McDonalds make billions too every year as does coca cola.Does that mean the MCDonalds makes good food or is it that morons who don't know any better like giving them their money.
Blade runner,The Shawshank redemption,Once upon a time in America,Office space,The wizard of oz and the big lebowski all bombed at the box office. -
Eywa has heard you. And I love Nolan but the guy can't direct action for shit. Check out the last 30 mins of Avatar for a masterclass in action filmmaking. That final aerial setpiece is GOBSMACKING.
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@Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_GraveI never admitted or said A-V-A-T-A-R was a "technical marvel"... With 4 years of development and 400 million dollars Cameron still failed to provide groundbreaking 3D or Photo-real CGI. How much money Cameron wasted has nothing to do with how horrible Avatar is as a movie. Please stop lying about me, I'm sorry your RABID FANBOI RAGE is out of control to the point of lying and ad-hominem attacks. But don't take it out on me you crazy psychopath. Avatar is a FINANCIAL MARVEL if anything, which is a thin and vapid complement. Cameron's expensive shitfest still couldn't overcome fake plastic skin textures and lighting not to mention the terrible environment lighting. Uncanny valley is still there. But the main problem with FAGATAR is the story, character development, and dialogue....You know the basic ingredients of a movie Just read the critics reviews about how Fagatar fails at the basic elements of movie-making in favor of: gimmick "photo-real" 3D, cliche big budget live-action Disney cartoon environmentalist bullshit. Avatar's live-action scenes looked like cardboard cut-outs which is why most of the movie is animated.... the only types of movies 3D is accepted in ...animated ones. Dumb Cameron-apologist-trolls roaming unchecked frothing at the mouth.
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We're given a pretty limited range of options based on what the studios decide to make, or the multiplexes decide to show. Just because a crappy movie in a crappy summer makes a lot of money, for example, doesn't mean people want to see more of the same thing. I know it's important to hedge your bets with the whole 3D thing (especially if you're in the business of asking permission to make big-budget movies), but I think all any filmmaker can do is make the kind of movie he or she wants to make.
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what i meant with what i wrote is simply this:
Your opinion,regardless if its right or wrong,is irrelevant since the rest of the planet loved the film.
or in other words:
who gives a fuck about your opinion? amen
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with the new firmware that released this wee.and Cyberlink released the new Powerdvd player which supports 3D.and tomorrow E3 starts which will probably focus on 3D games.in other words 3D is here to stay.
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got slammed by everyone. You guys must really be jealous.
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I know for a fact that you certainly did grudgingly admit that the visual and technical accomplishments of Avatar were excellent (while trashing everything else about the film). I'm sure your quotes can be found in the AICN archives. I may even try to find them and post them. So no cigar. You fucking minnow, I have a long memory and low tolerance for bullshit, so you're shit out of luck in trying to best or get one over on me. Your problem is that you're a coward, as well as being a bleating troll, and also an abject liar to boot, doubling back on your previous comments. You railed on Avatar for months on end, claiming that it would bomb, and now you're completely fucked since its mass box office and popularity. Facts are facts, you little twerp.Your other points are moot and defy all reality - Cameron failed to deliver photo-real CGI or groundbreaking 3D? Hahahaha!!!! But seriously, you are not worth my concern, just my pity. And isn't it telling also that my comments speaking the TRUTH about you were the only ones that have ever engendered a direct response from you, you fat, angry, virgin nerd?PS. How does it feel that you were quoted in Empire magazine last year as an example of the quintessential online, borderline illiterate, Avatar troll, eh? For a laugh, the editors actually read out your inane utterances (and those of other fellow trolls) to Cameron himself, and he laughed at you. You and your ilk were mocked. How does it truly feel to be the butt of a joke??
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Jun 13, 2010 7:26:54 PM CDT
Story Characters Dialoge > Money DVDsells CGI 3D
by trannyformers_apologist
Everybody knows that:Avatar has dumb cliche boring story. Boring vapid 1 dimensional characters. Cringe inducing dialogue written by a retard. Box Office numbers and Blu-Ray sells = examples of ad hominem fallacy (aka retarded fanboi rage)
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You're imposing all of your own definitions and restrictions of Bats upon what other filmmakers should do according to your standards. There's a hell of a lot of different versions of Batman and his character out there. Cripes, Dark Knight Returns has him as an anti-social boderline headcase guy who loves his job smashing heads, the Neil Adams/Denny O'Neil years had him as the detective, Arkham Asylum has him as basically a fucking coward. There are different takes on the character. Nolan's is one of them. Just because he takes a different version, of Batman pushed to his limits, doesn't mean he's wrong and it's badly written.
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Jun 13, 2010 7:28:57 PM CDT
Nolan would never be dumb enough to write the word "unobtanium"
by guy who got a headache and accidentally
The only time I got semi-interested and shrugged off my drowsiness to pay attention during avatar was when he was bringing ripley in to plug her into the tree, I thought here maybe we'll see something real alongside these cartoons, something besides CGI looking giant blue things fighting CGI looking mechs and ships. Fuck no, anytime it showed ripley the camera was zoomed in on her face. It was all a parlor trick, it might as well have been a pixar cartoon. The last battle was completely dull as well. It was just like the last fight with the mech in the third matrix movie actually. Where it starts out with two armies fighting for about 30 seconds then is down to one guy fighting the rest of the bad guys for the duration of the fight. Just a lame fucking movie. I'm glad the fact that a lot of people paid money to see it makes you happy though.
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Batman the boy scout. And it totally rocks. "Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!" How can anyone not get a kick out of that?
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that's all there is to it. he's the best director TODAY. and certainly one of the best there ever will be.
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"Did you break out the BBQ, hit the links, or go up to the lake and do some fishing?" "No, not this weekend. I spent my time arguing with a transvestite on the internet who hates the movie Avatar."
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Once again, you prove your utter idiocy. 'Unobtanium' is a REAL WORLD term used by engineers to describe a hypothetical problem solving material. It also has a long history in science fiction literature, which Cameron was clearly paying homage to. Do you think the man didn't know that the dumber quarters of the audience wouldn't know the origins of the word and probably mock it? He did; he just didn't care. Why should he play to the cheap seats?For your information, in the universe of Avatar the material - which is a McGuffin and thus its qualities are never revealed in the movie itself (it's actually a superconducting mineral used to fuel transport and mag-lev trains back on earth) - isn't actually called 'unobtanium'. That is simply a joke name, a colloqualism that the workers on Pandora have christened it with. It's true scientific name is not disclosed.Now how about cracking open some books and you might learn something, eh?
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Whenever Avatar gets slammed, the comeback is it made $100bn so fuck off you are all wrong. What kind of argument is that? Alice In Wonderland is on course for $1.5bn is that piece of shit any good? THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE. Avatar had a million problems. Everyone knows it had a myriad of problems. Titanic is a MUCH better film. And 11 Oscars to Avatar's 3 demonstrates that.
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Just because people payed to see a movie doesn't mean they enjoyed it or thought it was a good movie.Its easy to herd sheep into a slaughter house if they dont know what they are getting into.Most people in the world thought it was shit and if given the choice of their money back,they would have taken it back.How much money would it have made if it had only the income from cameron fanboyz who like faping to bad cgi smurfs.
Well we will see when cameron makes his waterworld 2,sorry I mean avatar 2 and it is the biggest flop in movie history. -
It has giant fucking robot suits. With machine guns. This is not rocket science, people.
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Titanic's status as a period piece and a true life disaster undoubtedly helped it along. Avatar's status as sci-fi, a genre frowned upon by the academy, hindered its chances. It was an achievement in itself for a sci fi movie to be nominated for best picture (of course, Star Wars was,too, and also didn't win). I like Titanic, but Avatar is a better Cameron film.
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She ain't got no money
Her clothes are kinda funny
Her hair is kinda wild and free
Oh, but love grows where my Rosemary goes
And nobody knows like me
She talks kinda lazy
And people say she she's crazy
And her life's a mystery
Oh, but love grows where my Rosemary goes
And nobody knows like me
There's something about her hand holding mine
It's a feeling that's fine
And I just gotta say
She's really got a magical spell
And it's working so well
That I can't get away
I'm a lucky fella
And I've just got to tell her
That I love her endlessly
Because love grows where my Rosemary goes
And nobody knows like me
There's something about her hand holding mine
It's a feeling that's fine
And I just gotta say
She's really got a magical spell
And it's working so well
That I can't get away
I'm a lucky fella
And I've just got to tell her
That I love her endlessly
Because love grows where my Rosemary goes
And nobody knows like me
[Fadeout:]
It keeps growing every place she's been
And nobody knows like me
If you've met her, you'll never forget her
And nobody knows like me
La la la- believe it when you've seen it
Nobody knows like me
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Isn't Rotten Tomatoes the end all site of movie critics these days?
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@NippleEffect...Thats really weird that song , I got a record of it from a jumble sale when I was a kid, and used to listen to it slow because it sounded freaky ...
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Jun 13, 2010 7:47:15 PM CDT
Tall_Boy66, how did those suits get to Pandora? Big fucking ROCK
by stereotypical evil archer
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Cameron hasn't made a bad movie (discounting Piranah II, but everybody does anyway). At it's worst, Titantic is a long slag that only kicks into high gear in the last hour... but it REALLY kicks into high gear in that last hour. Propeller guy FTW. Still it's my least favourite Cameron movie, but even in my least favourite Cameron movie he still pulls out a solid hour of great entertainment.
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They shipped 'em? Who gives a shit, anyway. Really. Giant fucking robot suits with machine guns, motherfucka!
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Jun 13, 2010 7:49:57 PM CDT
RPLocke, and yet idiots like Tranny will deny even that
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
and try to claim that critics only praised the effects, proving what a liar that insane, frothing troll truly is. Avatar was praised in multiple aspects by many critics, such as Roger Ebert, for its performances, story, emotional content, sociological concerns, and all those fundamentals. Visual effects alone do not garner a movie best picture noms (and some wins) from various awards bodies. So stop denying reality. Avatar's only real faults are a familiar story and some perfunctory dialogue. The movie tells its classic tale extremely well and is faultlessly crafted.
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whether it be "I'm a freak" to "I love this planet so much". Just get on with the plot. Sure there can be some of that, but previous movies started to dwell too much on that. Give us a Superman that just gets on with the story, not flying around navel-gazing. If Brainiac and/or Lex are used, whatever supervillain, they should be messing with his mind, messing with him, so much so that he doesn't have time to think about his place in the world etc. etc.
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I don't know why people slam Cameron for actually using the 3D effect well in a movie, when most other films that use 3D just use it as a cheap effect.
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Do you ever wish that Trannyformers_Apologist and AsimovLives would just cross their hate-boner piss streams (kinda like crossing the streams in GHOSTBUSTERS) and blow themselves up into oblivion?
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just to be able to sniff your music
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Anybody who mentions Avatar or Lost on a non-Avatar-or-Lost thread gets banned and their computer gets thrown down a flight of stairs.
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I just don't get the hate one can have for a movie where so much effort and love was put into it.
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Everything that comes out of this guy's mouth smacks of integrity and focus, just like his films.
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Every single thread should turn into Lost and Avatar because there's only so much millage you can get out of an article devoted to blowing Christopher Nolan's filmography. Let's get some shit started in here!
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I love Lost, but the series is over, and thanks to to the podcasts, etc it was overtalked already.
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get a shave, get a haircut and get a job
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Good thing about Nolan is that his movies are very plot-driven. Hopefully that carries on into his involvement with Superman.
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I feel so excluded from the pointless arguing.
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Is Richard not in the flash-sideways because even though he's aging he ages reeeaaaallllyyyy slowly and is still alive off-island?
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Even Harry said Ebert was wrong about his Avatar review and hes his friend.As for classic storyline,read as unoriginal and clichéd.Now can we get back to talking about good movies like insomnia,memento and the dark knight.
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I guess it was people who worshiped Smokey, right? cause they built a temple for him and everything.
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Jun 13, 2010 8:04:04 PM CDT
Titanic isn't just about the last 30mins
by bp_drills_america_a_new_asshole
Yes, we know the sinking is coming, but Cameron expertly weaves his story that we almost FORGET about the sinking. We get totally absorbed by the attention to detail, the period setting, its all so authentic. And from a director from sci-fi roots, that's all the more incredible. Cameron gave us something visually NEW with Avatar, but not something better. In fact, he even recycled the best bits of tech from Aliens - the mech suit, the drop ship, the motion tracker, the pulse rifle.
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Jun 13, 2010 8:04:17 PM CDT
Do I really agree with Nolan on his point that most heist pictur
by chaunceygardiner
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Are you kidding me? Of course it did. But that's not a knock on the film. I love cartoons and anime. And I had great time in the theater with Avatar. But I don't have a great desire to ever see it again.
Because it's ironic how a 3-D movie with such colorful visuals (which is one reason why it looks like a cartoon--the brightness and vividness) could sport characters so 2-D and a story so black and white.
The gungho capitalist who's dumb as the rocks he's after and the gruff military man who you know from the beginning is going to get shot multiple times before he finally dies were particularly laughable characters. Which is probably why it also feels like a cartoon. Again, this is not a knock. There is a time and a place for flat characters.
Nolan, on the other hand, is a master of painting with shades of grey. You can get into great arguments with people about the ethical decisions about the characters in TDK and Memento. I don't think there's any character in the films that you don't feel ambivalent about at one time or the other. Like the people you meet in life, they've got their attractive and unpleasant qualities. They make choices you don't always agree with or at least question.
Look at TDK, where each character is forced to make a moral choice--and note that Harvey's is not he only one that could be considered "wrong." Should Batman have revealed his identity to Harvey in that wreckage when he said "I Lost everything?" Should he really have taken the man's crimes on himself? Should Alfred have burned the letter? None of these decisions is an easy one to accept.
This + great performances is why these movies will be ones I return to time and time again, whereas like I said, I have no desire to see Avatar again.
This is from someone who prefers Scott's Alien over Aliens, btw. Sometimes I like to play a mental game where I imagine Cameron directing 'Blade Runner.'
Cameron is great at what he does, don't get me wrong. But his films don't reward repeat viewings like Nolan's do. You still have the same fun and thrills you had the first time you watched it, but you never get deeper into the characters or the story--it's all there on the surface.
I'll watch Aliens again because I already love the universe, I'll watch Terminator 2 again for the nostalgia and "I know now why you cry." But neither motivates me to watch Avatar again.
Okay, one exception to my critique of Cameron is his knack for presenting great mother-child, father-child bonds in the two previously mentioned movies. But again, these are single emotional notes--not the multiple strands that Guy Pierce, Bale et al have to integrate into their complex personas.
PS> And as for the Joker, like Anton Chigurh, he's a villain that threatens not just physical but spiritual harm. Avatar's villains, as I've pointed out, are more mundane, and not very memorable (the same problem with Iron Man 1 & 2 minus Mr. Rourke, who saves that character). -
That's my biggest strike against Avatar. I like it quite a lot, but it's not Aliens, and that's to it's detriment. And while I appreciate the attention to detail in Titanic in the first 2 hours, like any Cameron movie detail is just pouring out of every frame, it just ain't that entertaining. And then the boat sinks and all is forgiven. So I still like it.
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Jun 13, 2010 8:07:22 PM CDT
Hey Kobe tell me how my ass tastes!
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
Lets go Celtics!
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Stephen Lang chews scenery so much that he's one of the most memorable things about Avatar. It just kinda rocks that he's so damn hillbilly Vietnam Vet dropped into a sci-fi movie.
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Harry said Ebert was wrong about KICK-ASS, not Avatar. Harry loved Avatar.Now don't worry, I'm sure people will get back to talking about Nolan in due course. A director who has yet to make a movie as good as The Terminator or Aliens - and has only made two that were even better than Avatar.
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Jun 13, 2010 8:10:56 PM CDT
And those two weren't Batman movies either
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
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Jun 13, 2010 8:13:27 PM CDT
Cameron already did his Blade Runner BTW
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
It was called Strange Days. Yes, it was directed by Bigelow, but its a Cameron pet project all the way. And its criminally underrated, though certainly not as good as Blade Runner. Mind you, Blade Runner is beyond ol' Ridley these days, too.
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Jun 13, 2010 8:14:21 PM CDT
Prestige, Memento and Dark Knight are up with Cameron's best
by tall_boy66
Even if Dark Knight is too much of a hot potato because of it being a blockbuster comic book property, Memento and Prestige are just gold through and through. Ever watch the illusionist and Prestige back to back? It's like watching a snail raise Barry Allen. Ownage.
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http://tinyurl.com/fr37u
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Unlike Nolan though who is great PTA films don't make that much money which is too bad.
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Jun 13, 2010 8:17:32 PM CDT
One final point - Quaritch is one of the best villians
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
to appear in a blockbuster for a very long time, and second only to the Joker as recent blockbuster protagonists go. Stephen Lang was absolutely terrfic, and looked like he could have taken down Arnie in his prime. Not memorable? Don't be ridiculous. One of the best villains in any Cameron movie, and one of Avatar's strongest elements.
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... I do look forward to INCEPTION. Maybe he should do more originals. I liked MEMENTO (though it was based on his bro's short story, so maybe that doesn't even count), but every other movie he made was kind of dull. And yes, they ARE "cold." That's a perfect description.
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And definitely Nolan's best. TDK is better than Avatar in some ways, but highly deficient in others. A good, sometimes great, film, but vastly overrated amongst male fanboys. It sits above some of the classics of world cinema on the IMDB, which is just pathetic. Nolan's other movies are solid but overrated. His debut Following is quite excellent and I'll bet many of the TDK fanboys haven't seen it.
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Jun 13, 2010 8:22:21 PM CDT
Quaritch was laughable and lame
by guy who got a headache and accidentally
Do you watch Nickelodeon on a regular basis or something? Otherwise I can't figure how you found that to be a compelling villian. Nobody in the real world acts like that. That's a cartoon cardboard cutout, not a character, a strawman. How on earth Cameron went from Terminator 2, one of the most intelligent, consistent and greatest action movies ever, to the completely fucking dumb, dull and cliche Avatar I'll never figure.
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I said he was memorable BECAUSE he was so over the top. There's a huge difference there. Just because something is big doesn't mean it's bad.
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Please stop your cracking me up.Every movie Nolan Has made is better then Avatar.In fact every movie uwe boll has made is better then Avatar.Avatar is like if someone gave uwe boll 500 million to make a movie.
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Drab visual sense, and very little ability to direct action. His films are often high on their own importance, too. Not so apparent in his other films, but very much so in the Batman ones.
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Jun 13, 2010 8:25:58 PM CDT
"Nobody in the real world acts like that" is exactly my point
by tall_boy66
Big bad movie villain. He gets his space plane blown up that kills the fuck out of everybody and all it does it piss him off. Entertaining, yo.
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Strange Days had a very smart script. Really sharp, intelligent writing. One of Cameron's best scripts IMHO.
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Great movie but still the plot hinges on mumbled dialogue too much.
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Batman/BW - James Brolin
Ducard - Sean Connery
Falcone - William Holden
Gordon - Peter Fonda
Lucius Fox - Sidney Poiter
Earle - Charlton Heston
Dr. Crane - Jack Nicolson
Thomas Wayne - Robert Redford
Rachel - Bo Derek -
Jun 13, 2010 8:28:31 PM CDT
Inception plot twist: DiCaprio is the "dream master" bad guy...
by prof. pop-cult
My guess (based only on studying the trailers):The entire movie's reality is a dream within a dream. DiCaprio's character is an old dying man, who is in the snow fortress.The younger alter ego, our protagonist, doesn't know this. He (and the audience) thinks that he needs to do one more dream-heist job in order to be reunited with his wife, who is being held by the bad guy's henchmen. But the truth is his wife died long ago in the real world (as an old woman).The younger alter-ego hero will discover the truth when he infiltrates the snow fortress, and will learn that *he* is the proverbial Colonel Kurtz. He will be reunited with the image of his wife, and then will let go of his life (die). Definition of the word "inception" = "the beginning."
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The other day I read William Goldman's definition of a screenplay: "a series of surprises." When you apply that to AVATAR, you see even more that it's a series of predictabilities. That may be my biggest criticism of it: more than the bad acting, lame dialogue, average CGI, and trite themes, the thing that made it worst of all was that you knew everything that was going to happen before it did. Kiss of death...
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Jun 13, 2010 8:30:08 PM CDT
Every time I head the name Christopher Nolan, everything whites
by nippleeffect
I saw her sitting in the rain,
raindrops falling on her.
She didn�t seem to care.
She sat there and smiled at me.
And I knew
(I knew, I knew, I knew, I knew)
she could make me happy
(happy, happy).
Flowers in her hair,
Flowers everywhere.
I love the flower girl,
Oh, I don�t know just why.
She simply caught my eye.
I love the flower girl,
She seemed so sweet and kind.
She crept into my mind.
I knew I had to say hello
(hello, hello)
She smiled up at me
She took my hand
And we walked
through the park alone
And I knew
(I knew, I knew, I knew, I knew)
she could make me happy
(happy, happy).
Flowers in her hair,
Flowers everywhere.
I love the flower girl,
Oh, I don�t know just why.
She simply caught my eye.
I love the flower girl,
She seemed so sweet and kind.
She crept into my mind.
Suddenly the sun broke through
(see the sun).
I turned around she was gone
(where did she go).
And all I had left
Was one little flower from her hair.
But I knew
(I knew, I knew, I knew, I knew)
she had made me happy
(happy, happy).
Flowers in her hair,
Flowers everywhere
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Really? Cause I never knew that Jake's human body would die and he would become a Navi, nor did I know the girl would live.
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I want my fuckin money back
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Possibly one-note, but the RIGHT type of one note. Just an absolutely tenacious and utterly despicable villain. Lang was charismatic as hell. "Nobody in the real world acts like that"Well, most of Bush's administration did. At least Quaritch was no chicken hawk and actually had admirable balls and got stuck in doggedly on the front line unlike those cowards. No one acts like The Joker in real life, either, dude. That's why they call it the movies (and not Ingmar Bergman movies, either). First class popcorn entertainment.
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Joker - Mark Hammil
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Great to have a director around that knows his shit and cares about what he's working on. I really loved that story about making the 3D batman in BB and how he could tell the difference. I think effects people are a little high on themselves that their work looks better than it does. Practical effects almost always look better. Glad to hear Nolan call them on it.
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and in THAT movie, you can use Cher as the washed up, broken down whore of a Catwoman.
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Jun 13, 2010 8:37:07 PM CDT
Yep I want my money back and I want it given too......
by johnwaynewasgay
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Jun 13, 2010 8:38:36 PM CDT
Goldman would have praised Avatar's script
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Just like he did Titanic's, in the face of critics there, too. Because Goldman knew that Titanic was a meticulously constructed script, and Avatar, while telling a familiar tale, is also masterfully constructed. Hence why it won a WGA award (I think; I know for sure that it was nominated). The way that Jake's VO was even worked into the V-LOG of the story was itself a brilliant structuring device.Stop speaking for Goldman; you've no idea what he thinks. It may surprise you.
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with real looking aliens.
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that most heist pictures tend to be superficial? Can anybody help me here? Most of the heist pictures that I can think of that are superficial are just bad films to begin with. Agree? Disagree? Even with a film like Mamet's "Heist," which I'm not particularly fond of, while there may not be much emoting on the surface, you have the main character's realization that his line of work has left him alone. Rich he may be but he's been sold out. The thief must play his cards close to his chest. Actually, and interestingly, heist movies are a lot like gambling movies. For example, look at Melville's "Bob le Flambeur," one of my all time favourite films. Even better yet, look at the difference between it and Neil Jordan's remake of it, "the Good Thief." While "Bob le Flambeur" travels along quite leisurely, Melville all along reminds us of Bob's precarious situation, his dangerous life. It is there in the everpresent undertone of the risks one takes when one gambles. And when one loves. When one makes emotional connections. The betrayl of Bob is one of the most frustrating moments I've had in any film. It is worth nothing. It is a moment of the world's nihilism, its pettiness, its selfishness. And yet, mind Melville's beautiful image of Bob's face behind the policecar glass at the end: tranquil, yet knowing. While stylish, we are always in the realization that all is at stake. Here is a man who has taken the world's greatest gamble, and lost. This style of risk taking is pleasureable to Bob, and so he does it. And when he loses his bet, there he is: a loser, knowing he has lost, and yet confident in the knowledge that he did precisely what he wanted. We revere Bob not because he won, but because of how he loses. The only way I might agree with Nolan is in my realization of the recent trend in heist pictures (only the past decade, really) to have the thief, or thieves, get the cash, clear and free. Almost as though the only way for the audience to enjoy and appreciate the film is to have the "hero" win. And while the Danny Ocean films of Soderbergh are fun and some of the most entertaining films I've seen in a while, I can't define them as emotionally satisfying. But for Nolan to dismiss the whole genre of heist pictures I don't know. Maybe he is saying that he is easier to make a superficial heist pictures than to make an emotionally-centered one. Maybe. Still, you'd have to be lazy. Look at what Scott Frank did with his "the Lookout." A small masterpiece. And one of my favourite films about the personal investment of criminality. Or in more professional terms, view Mann's "Heat." A panorama of criminal enterprise that works because, while making the professional thief a character an almost zen figure, Neil, a man so in need of balance he almost priest-like, eschewing the world for the work that defines him, it undercuts this with the sacrifices he makes: it shows the hollowness of his world, the emotional and physical brutality of it. And while good cop Vincent's life is a shambles in comparison, a veritiable hell of personal failure, he is still a good man, and a man who is able to fulfill commitments to those he loves, even while being a man who cannot really live with. He is capable of loving. His work does not exclude love. While our image of the thief may be of a slick operator, someone always in control, we have countless protrayls in the history of film of the thief as a tragic figure: a man or woman incapable of a fulfilling life. There's is always a short, brutal one. Look at how Arthur Penn juxtaposed humour and violence in "Bonnie and Clyde" to show a more complete picture of a life of crime and excess. I mean, the list of good and thoughtful and fulfilling heist pictures is a long one. I don't really get Nolan's comment. Any of you guys got some examples of heist pictures that do and don't work emotionally? Peckinpah's "The Getaway" might be a good example: a visceral action film, one of the best ever shot, a very great early forerunner to the style that John Woo took from Peckinpah and perfected, but one that never escape the realms of being all sound and fury and formula. A good picture, but not one that I invest in emotionally. But almost perfect in the geography of violence it portrays - some of the most beautiful action sequence ever. But a genre exercise. Maybe that's what Nolan means - he had trouble making "Inception" live and breath. Just didn't like his choice of phrasing. It left a whole great genre, the possibilities of it, out in the cold.
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I hope it lives up to it, because this year has bombed so far.
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Jun 13, 2010 8:42:15 PM CDT
The take on "the Getaway" from that great "Movie-a-Day" column
by chaunceygardiner
was a damn fine synopsis. I miss that column, actually. A lot of insights.
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Seriously, give that movie a shot. Solid noir character-study thriller.
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You are the child of my heart
I could not love you more
You are my son
You call me father
Someday I'm going to have to leave you
Please forgive me
My son -
Jun 13, 2010 8:46:21 PM CDT
"That's why they call it the movies (and not Ingmar Bergman movi
by chaunceygardiner
Thanks, Turd. Made me laugh. Funny, and thoughtful.
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You couldn't get a more emotionally centered heist movie.I think what Nolan means is modern heist movies.
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Cuz Tom's heart done got stolen by Summer.
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Supes - Christopher Reeve
Lex - Gene Hackman
Lois - Kidder
Richard White - John Travolta or Tom Selleck
Eve - Valerine Perrine
Perry White -Jackie Cooper
Jimmy -Marc McClure
Jor El - Brando
Zod (cameo in jail) - Stamp
directed by Richard Donner
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Jun 13, 2010 8:51:16 PM CDT
The twist ending of Inception will very likely be...
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
that DiCaprio's charcter doesn't actually exist, and is, in fact, the titular 'inception', implanted in the mind of one of the other characters, to engender a chain of events. The character and idea of the 'dream thief' is himself a mere fabrication to lead to a process of thoughts that will expose secrets. A real chicken and egg scenario, hearkening back to Nolan's short film, 'Doodlebug'. See if I'm wrong.
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Rififi, Sexy Beast, Reservoir Dogs, The Killing.
But I think John WayneWasGay. I think he isn't specifically talking about all heist movies - I think he talking about movies were the entire point of the film is the heist. Ocean's 11 and Money Train, for example.
If not, I guess he really has to see more heist movies. -
"Phew! I made it out of the dream world...oh, snap, this isn't the real world, IT WAS THE DREAM WORLD ALL ALONG!!!! YOU BLEW IT UP! DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL YOU HELL!!" etc. etc. You know what I mean. Hopefully Nolan is smarter than that when it comes to his twists.
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Great movie for 2 hours, 20 minute bullshit cheap twist.
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The more I think about it, what did Nolan mean by his comments about heist movies?
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Avatar is great because it's SUPPOSED to be dumb and The Evil Colonel is lame and cartoony because he's SUPPOSED to be lame? It's supposed to be "entertaining" is all. In that case to quote Vern, you guys take Batman and Robin, I'll take The Dark Knight.
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...and Britney Spears has sold more albums than Black Sabbath, so I guess that MUST mean she's the better musician.
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use a paragraph break. Like this without the spaces. I want to read what you said about Heist movies but no way am I sifting through that massive block of text. Thanks mate.
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Game, set, match, eh?
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Jun 13, 2010 9:06:22 PM CDT
Yes, a giant scenery-chewing villian is meant to be entertaining
by tall_boy66
You are not supposed to take a guy who says "wants to kill you and eat your eyes for jujubes." as a MULTI-LAYERED IN-DEPTH CHARACTER! Seriously, when the dude says that you're disappointed there are not enough layers to the character? Really? The layer is he's a fucking asshole who likes to kill things with his robot machine gun suit. There. There's your layer.
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Jun 13, 2010 9:09:36 PM CDT
Nolan: "A director who has yet to make a movie as good as The Te
by paladinryan
Thank you for that comment. I was battling a bad case of depression today, but that made me roll on the floor laughing.
I'm sick and tired of the "Nolan can't direct action" shibboleth. What Nolan sometimes has a problem with is fight scenes (though I thought the one in Memento was well done, as well as the chase, and I adore the Neeson-Bale ice fight). But he's still learning, and he already blows away Cameron when it comes to other important aspects of action, like the all important suspense or buildup leading up to the violence. In this he follows his Jedi Master, Ridley Scott (witness the wonderful suspense of the Mayor, Judge, etc... killings before the Joker crashes the party in TDK).
Moreover, as I've suggested, "action" includes more than fight scenes. People who say he can't direct action should be forced to watch the car chase in TDK ala Clockwork Orange.
Q (I'm not going to try to spell his name right at the moment) is a great villain, I won't disagree with that. FOR THE FILM THAT HE'S IN. But the Joker, like Chigurh, is a villain for all time, that will still chill souls long after the political references being made in this thread no longer spark.
Which is ironic, since Nolan is even more sensitive to the post-9/11 world than Cameron. -
YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE GREAT?
GREAT WOULD BE KNOWING SOMEONE WITH A THEATRE
YEAH YEAH WHATSDEWD
HIS PLACEIS WAY OVER THERE
BESIDES I'M ALERGIC TO SHOCKING ORANGE -
As an aspiring screenwriter (I know... why the hell would anyone aspire to THAT!), I found it fascinating he "always starts with story rather than characters." I understand what he's saying, but as a writer, I find that prospect terrifying. I'm afraid my characters would feel manufactured to fit a particular role in the story. To his credit, this doesn't seem to happen in Nolan's films. Great interview and Q & A.
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Jun 13, 2010 9:13:13 PM CDT
Shit, didn't even mention all the great Noir heist pictures.
by chaunceygardiner
"Kansas City Confidental"
"Out of the Past"
"Once a Thief"
"Odds Against Tomorrow"
Even forgot the contemporary "Jackie Brown" (which is essentially a heist picture, though its crime is ostensibly money laundrying for an arms dealer).
Another great film about a thief/con is Sturges' wonderful "the Lady Eve." One of the all-time great emotionally satisfying entertainments (what Sturges was aiming for in his thesis, "Sullivan's Travels" - which I think works better as an idea than as a satisfying motion picture because its ideas are so transcendent and so wonderful that they eventually overshadow the actual product of the film, in my very very humble opinion.
Point is, a great made can be made from the ingredients of the heist picture because we are inherently invested in a picture where something of great worth can be gained. And where something is taken from one person and taken in the possession of another. Where things are at stake: ways of life, love, promises, relationships, life itself. And while stealing can be sexy, this allure is always a thing subject to greater forces, like justice and mortality, those which a life of crime run contrary or parallel to, makeing up the initial allure of the endeavour. It is something you are not meant to do. Look at the subject of temptation in a great heist film like "Out of Sight." (GO SCOTT FRANK!)
Trust me guys, I could go on for a much longer period time. Pompous old wind-bag film-lover that I am. Are there any great heist pictures I'm missing? I know there are. Help me out. -
That's fine; like, I said, he's a great villain for the movie he's in. And he is memorable in an over the top 2-D way, certainly, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned him haha.
But I haven't been going to Youtube to watch his scenes the past few years like the way I often rewatch Bardem and Ledger's. That's what I meant by memorable. Maybe I should have said: disturbing or haunting.
Entertaining yes; disturbing or haunting, no. -
God, that killed it. Hey LOOK! The NAMES are the same!!! I was hoping the movie would leave that out and just ignore it.
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got places to be
and peoples to byte -
been trying to figure that one out for a long time. Gave up quite a while back. Guess the secret was posting enough that it became an source of irritation for someone. I will try it out next time.
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I agree; that was the most interesting comment Nolan made in the whole interview to me. I am dumbfounded. I think maybe the way to think about it is that Nolan is interested in how the story/life shapes the characters, and not vice versa. Especially how the story confronts the characters with choices.
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Jun 13, 2010 9:22:48 PM CDT
Paladrinyan, Nolan cannot TOUCH Cameron when it comes
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
to action (though admittedly, few can). And when I say action, I AM talking about suspense/build up/spatial geography/ editing/composition, etc., not 'splosions. That's mayhem and carnage, not action. That's what Michael Bay does. Nolan could never replicate the claustrophobic tension in, say, The Abyss, or the intense build ups and releases in Aliens - or at least, he has shown no signs of doing so as yet. Just look at the opening scene of the faux-Batman v the scarecrow's goons in TDK. It is borderline incomprehensible. He certainly fares better when it comes to vehicular chases, but even there, there is nothing that can match the precision of the canal chase in T2 or the rhythm of the bridge sequence in True Lies. Nolan has many strengths, but he is simply not a great action director; at least not so far.
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Is this some kind of insinuation that cartoons are not awesome? The lack of traditionally animated theatrical features in the US is shameful.
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a character is in a action or sci-fi movie they dont need to be more then a cardboard cutout that connects one explosion to the other.All the best action and sci-fi movies have had great plots,dialog and rounded characters.In 20 years time people will look at the effects in avatar the same way we look at the stop motion effects in terminator.The difference is that the rest of terminator will still stand the test of time.
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Jun 13, 2010 9:29:33 PM CDT
Protagonists should be complex. Antagonists don't have to be
by tall_boy66
That's the thing about being the baddie, they're single minded and in a movie it all comes down to the panache of the performer. Stephen Lang had oodles of it.
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that before John Huston's "The Asphalt Jungle," it was rare to find corrupt cops on film. He sort of rewrote the book with that one - and think it, a genre picture no less. Before then: "Who could care less about a two-bit gangster/bank robber?" And after seeing it, who could not remember Dix (almost called him Johnny) chasing alongside a racehorse. Just to see something beautiful from childhood. One of the most human pictures ever. Damn, thanks Continentalop. And "Touchez pas au grisbi" is one on my list of those to see. Thanks for bringing it up. Gotta see it. Gotta see it. (Like saying it over and over again will make its way on the list in my mind.)
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Scientific distrust? PHHPT! How about the fact that the world (most of it, at least the ones with 2 eyeballs) see in 3d? How about that little scientific nugget? I'm suprised at Nolan for hopping on that little bandwagon. It's not like *LO CARB* or *SCREAMO BANDS* .. it's how we SEE!! Hardly a fad, far from a gimmick in its current incarnations. Jump off the hatewagon and stop being a follower.
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But a single-minded superficial good guy is boring. Superficial bad guys? Ham that shit up, yo!
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and so will Avatar. Probably not to the extent of its current popularity, as technologically advanced movies always lose luster over time, but certainly it will not become a universally loathed obscurity. It will most likely settle into a movie of "reasonably above average" repute.
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I'd like to see a story just once end the way it ends in real life. With a bad cop being bad and getting away with it in the end, like most of them do. In big, nasty, violent, deadly and humiliating ways against the people who have the least opportunity to fight back. I don't hate cops. I've known a few personally and only one was what I would consider a power-hungry, corrupt, violent and generally evil guy. (got away with murder... literally..) But when they're bad, they're VERY VERY bad. And they get away with it, especially with suspects, constantly. And try divorcing one sometime that doesn't want to be divorced. ELL OH ELL. Good luck.Most modern stories of corruption start with one or two "bad apples" and a little of the old boy's network and some "got each other's back no matter what" going on, but almost always end with the bad apples being exposed and the good cops winning in the end. I'd like to see maybe a realistic representation of what happens when you even attempt to lodge a complaint against an officer. Try to go pick that paperwork up some time and see if you end up being told to "calm down" and eventually asked to leave even though you've never even raised your voice. And they'll want to ID you before they give you the paperwork in spite of the fact that it's against the law for them to do so. Forgettaboutit. I'm not sure we'll ever get any further than "The Wire" to showing what really goes down. Your best bet? Keep your head down and stay clean. Your chances of getting caught in the crossfire will be lessened. But not eliminated. THAT is the reality of corruption I'd like to see on the screen some time. But I doubt I ever will. Go ahead and call me a cop hater, etc etc. It's just not true. I've had a cop save my ass once and I'll never be able to re-pay that debt for as long as I live, even karmically. But that does not change the GENERAL truth of the matter.
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Jun 13, 2010 9:45:26 PM CDT
Quaritch is no different than Darth Vader
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
in A New Hope. A cartoon villain, and a great one, and perfect for a timeless space opera which is what Avatar is. And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not saying he's better than Vader. But he's the same type of 'black hat' villain, and one of the best I've seen for a very long time.However, in addition, Quaritch's proximity to real life hawk military commanders does give his character an extra resonance in these post 9/11 times, as well as his historical parallels to figures like Custer and Cortes, all of which archetypes the movie is playing off.
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Please!!!.... Nolan has done an outstanding job on his films. Versus all the films made by you...OH WAIT YOU GUYS HAVENT DONE ANYTHING TO COMPARE!!!.... point made....
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Jun 13, 2010 9:46:45 PM CDT
You just compared Avatar to The Beatles
by guy who got a headache and accidentally
Get the fuck out of here
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In the article it states that he doesn't use zoom lenses.He only shoots with primes.If you know anything about photography then you would know that prime or fixed focal length lenses produce sharper images.I remember he refused to have the dark knight shown in cinemas using digital projectors instead of 35mm film ones, because digital projectors are no as sharp as film projectors.Hes not anti technology.Hes just pro technology that produces the best image at the moment,which is 35mm film in 2d.
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I don't remember if any of the bad cops got away with it in the end, I don't think they do, but damn, that was one fine film. It's sad to see such great films like that disappear into obscurity.
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Much like ska gets a lot of reactionary hate, there is plenty of valid material, but all anyone remembers is when pop/mall culture tried to adopt its more superficial elements into radio music. Look up Level Plane, Witching Hour, or Robotic Empire for the more artistic application of the aesthetic. Still, as a youth culture, it is not for everyone, but far from the parody the mall crowd turned it into.
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Jun 13, 2010 9:49:34 PM CDT
"You've never made a film!! All your opinions are null and void!
by tall_boy66
That's such a bullshit entitlement non-argument. It's called democracy, motherfucker. I can bitch about whatever the fuck I want.
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Shit, I must have missed the end of Dark Knight when Batman looks through the sonar goggles.
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Not disagreeing with you about your statements regarding protagonist/antagonist, but I would say I think Dirty Harry is the reverse of what you just said.
Dirty Harry is a very simple protagonist, while Scorpio is a very complex antagonist. -
I've never starved several million of my fellow countrymen or infringed on their rights, but I think I can judge Kim Jong Il.
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and i thought wow...mr. nolan got really fresh performances out of icons like robin williams and al pacino. loved the ending of that movie.
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It's smallville's last season this fall, so that could be the plan, with Rosenbaum as Lex, Marsters as Brainiac, Durance as Lois, and Welling as Clark Kent/Supes it's a wrap!
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Jun 13, 2010 10:15:30 PM CDT
Well, okay, Dirty Harry is the exception that proves the rule
by tall_boy66
Most movies, esp. in the action genre, rise of fall based on the good guy having some layers to them. Bad guys can get away with being rank bastards with nothing else to them. To keep out of the James Cameron/Christopher Nolan examples: Hans Greuber in Die Hard. Ain't much there aside from he's a prick. But he's an AWESOME prick.
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I agree that Cameron is great at action, and in some respects better than Nolan. We'll have to agree to disagree about the suspense factor though: Alien's suspense puts Aliens to shame, and I found TDK tons more suspenseful than Avatar (where death is pretty predictable). Also, I think Memento is an amazingly claustrophobic film. I need to watch the Abyss again. But anyway, my point was that Nolan is not "horrible" with action, which still stands.
Also, Darth Vader is clearly more complicated than Q from the get-go thanks to Obi-Wan's backstory, his complex interaction with Tarkin and the imperial officers, etc... Plus you're comparing Avatar, a harder sci-fi film, to Star Wars, a space opera. A 2-D character is of course going to feel flatter in the former.
Again, don't get me wrong: I really liked Avatar. But I couldn't help but be disappointed with some of the things I've mentioned. And we haven't even touched the issues such as how the two major male native characters are conveniently killed off, how dumb the main character is (sleeping with Neytiri instead of telling the people about the deadline--How it Should Have Ended is spot on here), etc... these things don't ruin the film for me, but they were disappointments.
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But let's give Arnold a lot of credit for that too.
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as part of cameron's oeuvre..no more.
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That really wasn't my point. I was talking about the other characters being complex. When I turned to the Joker and the issue of villainy I was talking about the type of threat they pose vs. the mundanity of other villains. Chigurh, the Joker, the big D, etc...are more elemental, symbolic compared to Q. This is reflected in their dialogue, with no mention of eyes as jelly beans.
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"I agree that Cameron is great at action, and in some respects better than Nolan". You were being sarcastic right?
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...That said, I was pretty drunk that day.
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now that was rubbish. As for 2d vs 3d at the end of the day story is most important thing and thats why I trust Nolan. Great track record. I don't think I even need a review for his next. I'll watch it.
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Jun 13, 2010 10:43:01 PM CDT
Avatar is kinda like Obama, everyone was really excited
by coughlins laws
at first because it was something no one's ever seen before, was advertised really well, and was the most expensive movie/campaign in history. Then, after awhile, people are finally beginning to see there was never really any substance to it at all...
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than the Beatles. Game, set, match what?
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But I came close on Flintstones.
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Jun 13, 2010 10:56:03 PM CDT
I was waiting for Coughlins Laws to interject some of his
by continentalop
Insightful political commentary.
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...you need to remember that this whole "Superman is just an aw shucks farmboy and not at all alien" schtick didn't truly come along until the John Byrne reboot. Before that it was pretty common for Superman writers to deal with the idea that Supes was an alien who had to masquerade as a human and that was part of why pre-Crisis Kent was such a dork.
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It was 1970s, especially post Superman: the Movie, and Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns that made Superman a dork. Clark Kent in Smallville was an "aw shucks" farm boy, but Superman himself was always the ultimate male/adult figure: confident, sure of himself. always knew what to do, and never filled with doubt about what his responsibilities are. Just look at him in the old George Reeves Superman TV series, or pick up any of the older pre-1978 Superman comic book. Look at him in his Spider-Man team ups - he is far from "aw shucks."
And his early GA appearances he was pretty much an ass-kicking radical. -
This is probably the best article you guys have posted in a very long time! It was full of interesting information and it certainly qualifies as "cool news"! Have more articles like this one please!
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lets face it, as entertaining as TDK is, is Batman the primary focus of the film? not by a long shot. TDK is a fine film (with the exception of having far to many climaxes), but I would much rather watch a Batman movie that focuses on Batman himself, like Batman Begins. Regardless, I'm still all for Nolan's third outing with the character, I just hope he puts more focus back on Batman. Have him do a lot more detective work. Show him training in a bunch of different fighting styles. Oh, and bring back the batcave please.
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Only being there when the Joker shows up. Really? I thought it was the most obvious thing about the movie from the very fest screening.
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The first movie is so good and still holds up. It makes the sequels look bad.
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Course, I was jet lagged and running on very very little sleep. But it was one of the first movies I'd ever dozed off in the theater watching.
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No, I wasn't being sarcastic. If you look back, my main argument was that Nolan's films are deeper than Cameron's, that his characters and stories are more emotionally and ethically complex, and that his villains are better. I don't back down from any of those claims. My other argument was that Nolan is better at suspense in his action scenes, and his chase scenes are fine. I granted that Cameron is better in some ways: like his filming of fight scenes. That's all. I'm trying to be as objective as possible, and I still come down on the side of Nolan.
Though I don't want to keep derailing this with another Nolan vs. Cameron argument, which constantly flood IMDB.
I vehemently disagree with the idea that Batman is not a focus in TDK. At the end of that movie he is totally transformed from what he was at the beginning. Let's not let Ledger's stunning performance distract us from the dinner scene with Harvery and Rachel, the criticisms he receives from Caine and Freeman, the last 10 minutes of the film where he makes two key decisions (1) not to reveal his identity to Harvey, although you can see he thinks about it (Bale is actually not as bad in this film as people say) and (2) to take Harvey's crimes on himself. -
thing is going to end once we're all blown away by the rotating hallway fight. Someone who works in Hollywood and saw a test screening of the film said there's been nothing like it and no one can be prepared for it. I really hope the commercials that come out between now and the middle of July 16th don't spoil too much of it, or other great scenes. I'm actually glad the commercials have been stingy with releasing new footage.
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and then i'm done
ok, hello
s'ok, here I go
two words
black chick
two words
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yeah, too bad it looked like the scene in the garage in Matrix 3.
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With Ridley Scott in second, hoping Nolan kicks this decade off better than Scott did.
Interesting of course to compare them with Scott being the director of Nolan's much loved Blade Runner.
Think the biggest challenge for Inception will be expectations, particularly the crap that has come out this year so far, people are really hoping for Inception to be amazing. Think it will struggle to meet expectations. -
That movie that bombed when it first came out and only became good 20 years later?
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1. Dark Knight
2. Memento
3. Batman Begins
4. Insomnia
5. Prestige
6. Following -
I like it and we saw it come through in Donner's Superman movies.
Clark Kent is "human" raised in a small town by two great parents with great moral values (maybe a little two black and white at times). But Supes is a godlike alien, who doesn't really belong.
I liked that in Superman 2 he didnt have to hold back with his powers. That his weakness really isn't kryptonite, that its his for the most part black and white morals and his attachments to people, mostly Lois. As terrible as Superman 4 was, the interesting aspect of it, is that Supes has the power to walk into any nation and take away their nukes. -
cue it up as you see fit
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Batman was pounding him in the face, not even a nose bleed C'mon! All that aside I really respect Nolan's philosophy towards film making, I love his passion for "doing it real" and avoiding CGI at all costs, he is a true artist.
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Come on, mannnnn...
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Jun 14, 2010 1:48:27 AM CDT
MY POINT IS THAT NOLAN GIVES US ENTERTAINMENT IN ONE OF ITS GREA
by canidate_micheal
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Yeah, 2 Face was graphic, but NO BLOOD in the movie at all? And an entire GANG of Jokers walk in and drive out of a bank in broad daylight?
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So glad he brought that up, there's been very little discussion of that.
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I wish the fuck that Portuguese goat-fucker would SHUT THE FUCK UP, PERMANENTLY.
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Just waiting to tangle with you sorry asses... what the fuck is this article about? (That's a little expression from before your time when people were literate).
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I'll quote Dr. Johnson instead (look him up if you don't know him):
"You may abuse a tragedy, though you cannot write one. You may scold a carpenter who has made you a bad table, though you cannot make a table. It is not your trade to make tables.”
Therefore, wether someone can or has made a film is irrelevant. And I also add that supporter of films are in the same boat as detractors - they haven't made a film either, so by your logic their opinion holds just as much weight as those who criticize a movie. -
Jacques Audiard is the director of the last decade. Read My Lips, The Beat That My Heart Skipped and The Prophet.
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The Sausage King!!!! HE DIED!!
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That has reinvented the police suspence like Insomnia and Memento has never truly delivered the detective Batman movie that some have hoped. Strange.
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Breakfast will never be the same. Personally, I never touch swine, but I'm sure this will wreck the day of some pork enthusiasts...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8UE4P8kB-c -
No, if you have to use Lex, have him go all out to kill Supes via Bizarro, Brainiac, and a whole bunch of other thigs he can fucking PUNCH. And recast Routh and give us the real costume.
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...making a Batman film this way? A suspenceful fantasy detective movie where the city if part of the story. It's been done in a sublime manner in those direct-to-DVD Batman animation films. Very anime.
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Definitely want to see Gotham play a more prominent role in the next film. A great detective story, and a fully-equipped Batcave. Should be a good time at the movies.
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- They built that set in a building in London. It was the police station in Batman Begins...
This was at the Farmiloe Building in Clerkenwell. Check it out.
http://www.urban75.org/london/farmiloe.html -
Batman has a line he won't cross, see? The Joker goads him and goads him, but Batman still won't run him over with his little Batpod and the Joker wins.
Unlike "Garbage Truck Dude". Coz Batman squished GTD like a bug in the underpass just five minutes before. No way that guy's walking away from that cab with just a band-aid. If the Joker knew what happened to GTD, maybe the rest of the movie would've been over, because Bats had already waltzed over his uncrossable line without a second thought. Joker need not have bothered with the lame ferry/Tiny Lister/Marshall Bell shennanigans... -
Well, well, what kind of technophobiac are we. Me.. I like the new 120hz (60hz per eye stream) 3d tv sets for sure.. Oh man I like it a lot. Gonna get one very soon. I know I know people bitch on about the glasses. they dont bother me I wear glasses to see so it's not much of a change, and I've seen the technology used to make glasses free lcd 3d, and it's not very good. I mean it's a damn transparent screen with tons of hair sized vertical lines going through it. I also pretty syked because I just found out that have a powerful enough nvidia graphics card based computer to get a 3d ready 120hz lcd for all my pc needs as well. Maybe it's just me, but the 3d tv shutter frame tech doesnt seem to make the screen darker, maybe I forgot the reality of the experience, but damn do's I wantz one.
No net. Well theres so many ideas here, all of them totally free. So I'm kind of sad to hear that. No cellphone, man I wish I could cut that cord. They believe it causes Brain and Nut cancer. Never can get away from people who are bored and think talking to you can fix that. -
will be just like the first action comic set in the 30's. no ma and pa kent, he found on the side of road by someone in car, sent to an orphanage, his strenghts are seen as a young child and people think he's a freak so he trys to be us. he cant fly, he can jump long distances. his skin is bullet proof, he can run faster than a train, the sun doesnt give him these powers, hes a man of tommorow, all of the people from his planet were like that. after he leaves the orpganage he gets a job at the daily planet. He get tired of the crimes and he decides to become a champoin of the people, but he wants to keep it secret. He investigates a senator he thinks is corrupt. Lois stick her nose in to and she is kidnapped. superman comes to her rescue, the thugs try to escape with her in a car he lifts it up and shakes it tossing the bad guys out and rescuing lois. something like that. Truer to origin of the comic. I think it would be interesting to see superman wiht out a ma and pa kent in an orphanage until he's old enough to leave. I think he should mask his idenity somehos as superman though, the glasses and hair flip is kind of hard to buy into now.
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Jun 14, 2010 4:51:34 AM CDT
I kept scrolling but no "Nolan's favorite color is peach"
by eddiemurphyslaugh
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The haters don't really *hate* it at all, they LOVE it, and well they should because it's easily in the top ten best of the decade. The so-called *haters* hate it for several reasons: 1) Morbid obesity and chronic virginity leading to negative, unreasonable thoughts. 2) Boredom. 3) Utter lack of critical insight. 4) Immaturity. 5) Did I mention the Obese Virgin angle? They hate themselves SO MUCH, that they have to pretend to hate everything else as a defense mechanism. Each and every one of their pig squeals can really be distilled into a crippling self-loathing coupled with an inability to face that self-loathing, and instead focusing on an outside tormentor, in this case, the entertainment they secretly love SO MUCH they'd literally fall over dead without it...
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....psychology is involved. Al Pacino's character can't sleep...and he wants nothing more than to sleep. For anyone watching it while a little tired...it triggers a psychological desire to sleep. It's like how yawning makes others yawn. Or when a person talks about how hungry they are it can make you hungry, too. If you fell asleep during insomnia...you're just easily given to suggestion. You're the type who would go under easily at a hypnotist show.
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one more time,just to understand why the rest of us laugh at you:
2.7B $ in the BO,and DVD/Bluray all time world records.
so please do keep up with your laughable statements,please do entertain us. :D -
I thinks it just more fun to watch, which I think is a necessary component of a film about a guy dressed as flying rodent beating up criminals.
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Did you ever see any of the animated JLA series? I thought their iteration of Lex Luthor was pretty good, and made a worthy foil for Superman.
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Me neither
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...will always refelct badly on the person doing the bitching. Of course, no artist is critic proof, and no work of art is objectively good, BUT there is no doubt that he is a fantastic filmmaker who is still refining his craft.Posting dismissive soundbites about his films is absolutely permissible - a bit like being fat and wearing skinny jeans, or wearing a poorly fitted wig, or scartching your bum in public and then smelling your finger - all permissible but, by god, you don't half look like a massive wanker at the time.
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But then again I'm not a fan of Batman in general.
I do like the movie and thought Ledger's Joker was astonishing. I don't know, just not crazy for it. I wouldn't say it sucks though, that's kind of silly, obviously it's very good to earn the kind of accolades and praise it has. Now, Avatar, as someone else mentioned... that's a shitty movie. -
And NOW, becuase Nolan said it, I'm suddenly fucking right. And I was called an idiot by all these TBs here when I said Cameron was pushing moviemaking to the wrong way with Avatar.
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I don't think i'm being "trendy" when I say that I'm not a huge fan of the dark knight. I'm just being honest. I wasn't a huge fan the 1st time i saw it and that opinion hasnt changed. i find it too serious and too flawed. it needed an injection of excitement and humour. everything i loved about batman begins was missing from the dark knight. instead of bruce wayne dominating the film and making a film about bruce wayne/batman, it became more about the villians yet again. i admire nolans intentions with the dark knight, making it like a realistic crime epic but it's batman and batman needs an injection of fun and humour aswell as seriousness and smarts. i thought batman begins got the mix perfectly and that's why I think it's a superior film.
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I agree with you whole-heartedly.
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I agree with you whole-heartedly.
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Yeah, i saw "Death Trap" too.
Read Michael Caine's biography. He says that he and Chris drank some booze to prepare for that scene because neither of them were fond of actually doing it.:-) -
it's coming along nicely, actually much easier then batman 3 at the moment
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Because of Christopher Reeve i became i fan of Superman. Still love the first 2 movies. As for Batman, the Tim Burton didn't do much to interest me for Batman and Shumacher...well let's not talk about him.
Batman Begins was okay and TDK with its flaws was great.
I really hope that Nolan can stay true to the essence of Superman and not make the mistake of taking their Batman route.
Superman is ying to Batman's yang. -
Jun 14, 2010 7:27:24 AM CDT
Quint: Proof read your shit before you post it. Thanks!
by --- emperor ---
I stopped reading after your 3rd typo. I can't be fucked reading through a sentence 3 times in order to finally make sense of the typo -- especially if the report is this long. Next time, proof-read, before you post your shit.
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Jun 14, 2010 7:34:35 AM CDT
It's even more "trendy" to call an undeserving movie a masterpie
by alienindisguise
I agree with Nolan as the interrogation scene is also my favorite scene. It's the only time Batman is Batman for me. the rest of the flick, Bale just seems like he doesn't give a shit and talks too damn much with the stupid bat voice. But since most people are followers, trends, however wrong they may be will never end.
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I do think that Nolan does get an essencial thing about Superman's nature. He is an alien. He was raised as a human, and superficially looks like a human, but he's an alien. superman, the way i see it, is the epytome of the american emigrant experience. He's the ultimate emigrant, welcomed in a foreign land and doing his damn best to fit in to the land's new valours and to play them to heart, even suplanting the natives who took them for granted. Superman is like the migrant that wnats to made do and uphold the best value sof his adoptive land. Thus, and since nolan himself is an alien to USA, on account he's british (though one of his parents was american, and his brother is a naturalized american citizen), i think he undestands pretty well that facet of Superman. As a british, thus a non-american, Nolan is well aware, like many non-amerians might be, that Superman is not an earthling but alien. I can't wait for the Nolan's take on Superman.And i agree with what many have said above: bring back Brandon Routh. He was great as Superman in Singer's movie.
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Actually, the expression "In Nolan We Trust" pre-dates THE DARK KNIGHT. I didn't invented it, it was already popular and in much use at the time when the first TDK teaser was shown. If i had to venture a guess, the expression come about when Nolan was anounced as the director of TDK, because ther ehad been speculation he might had not return for a second Batman movie after BATMAN BEGINS.
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Amnd i care for far more subjects then just JarJar Abrams and Nolan. You have not payed attention.
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When I noticed it was garbage.
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it's like your watching that Kirsten Dunst cosplay vid
And Kathy Griffin overlays her face,p>
I would sooooooo totally wreck Kathy Griffin
bring it you orange haird monstrosity -
I'm not sure what the fuck a "masterpie" is, maybe something Hitler cooked up on weekends in between Blitzkriegs? Anyways, TDK is an outstanding piece of cinema, that's the bottom line. Anyone dumping on it to be "trendy", or contrary can run and go fuck themselves. And if you honestly didn't like it well you can eat a dose of fuck off as well (I don't want to exclude anyone). Bring back Routh as Superman indeed! With some stronger direction I think he can do very well with the role. Looking forward to what Nolan can do with Superman. And as for "fun" and "humour" being injected into Batman? Fuck that noise. Go watch the 60's tv tripe if you want that shit. Serious is what the character needs. He's the Dark Knight, not the Affable Knight.
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He was just doing a Reeve impersonation! We need a new Superman from the ground up! not a retread!
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Just give Superman to Brad Bird already.
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it works with vampires,why not with a flying man? heh?
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That man has yet to let me down. His movies are filled with substance and well developed characters, nice twists and they look amazing.
There was too much hyper-boil about TDK, but I can look beyond that and see how good it really is. As for the Superman debate- I will let him take a shot at it see what he can produce, can't be any worse than Singer's take. Bring back Brandon Rousch, he fits the mold better than anyone else that I can see stepping into the role and "Superman Returns" being crap had nothing to do with him. On a side-bar, Nolan is the best dressed director I have even seen. I want to raid his closet. -
With a sledgehammer.
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Since Batman has gone rogue and he has sort of been chased out of the city, you play on his urban legend aspect and you have three separated stories about the World of Gotham at night and all its citizens in anthology form. With Batman making appearances as this scary creature of the night in the three stories. It would be an ideal way to introduce some cat burgler, a club owner with a penguin tuxedo that knows everything, a mob assassin with a cyber eye, maybe a group of street kids choosing the bat as their emblem...
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You do indeed live!Welcome back to AICN! In Nolan We Trust!
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I thank you for your warm welcome.
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Well, i had to say it, hadn't I?
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It's a good film, maybe even a very good film but it's not in the "masterpiece" category. It's not even Nolans best film. I would place Batman Begins, The Prestige and possibly even Insomnia above it. When I said earlier that The Dark Knight needed an injection of fun, humour and excitment, I wasn't suggesting that it emulate the campy 60's show,as one talkbacker suggests. A film can be fun and have humour without it ever losing sight of it's origins, Batman Begins being my example. Batman Begins got the mix just right. It never lost sight of the characters and story but it also never allowed the story to become too serious that it became mildly depressing and dull to watch. It had humour and yet it didn't once descend into stupidity. the humour was welcome. humour afterall exits no matter how serious your life is. I would argue that it's more realistic for a film to have humour as it's part and parcel of all us to a degree. even for Bruce wayne/batman. Remember in Batman Begins when Bruce asks if the batmobile comes in black with a wry smile on his face, or the moment when Gordon says I gotta get me one of those when he see's the batmobile, or when Alfred bemoans Bruce for not being able to get the log off despite all those push ups he does, this is the kind of humour i'm talking about that contributed to making Batman Begins a more enjoyable experience to watch. couple that with the story we hadnt seen before of how bruce became batman and how he got the batmobile, toys, training etc and you have a better film on every level. To prefer Batman Begins to The Dark Knight is not crazy. It makes all the bloody sense in the world. But at the end of the day it's all down to personal preference and if you love the dark knight great. If you don't great. I don't bear grudges bcos someone likes a film more than me. that would be very fuckin stupid. some of you think the dark knight is the holy grail of superhero films and that if anyone claims to dislike it then they are just being a hateful person for the sake of it. well no, i simply dont like it as much as Batman begins. so ...... WHY SO SERIOUS!!!!
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You are the king of lies!THE KING OF LIES!!!!
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Just because the nolans want to make a more complex Superman movie with a more complex characterization to the character doesn't mean that automatically the movie will have the kind of cinematography found in Tim burton's Batman movies or something alike. It doesn't mean it will have the washed out cinematography of Nolan's Batman movies. I do remmeber reading in an interview with Nolan that he does believe that superman is a more colourful character then Batman, and needs a visual style accordingly. So, it seems, under Nolan's aegis, they do want to make a Supermna movie which the visual style of the movie reflects the type of imagery and sentiments that Superman brings and is know for, optimism and good-hearted kindness. Again, i'll repeat what i usually say about all things Christopher Nolan:In Nolan We Trust.Besides, Christopher Nolan is not directing the movie, as he said above, he has a specific production capacity for a specific part of the movie.
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From "The Core." The scientist in that film named his new kind of element rock "unobtainium." Avatar blew ass, and so did BATMAN RETURNS all you fucking retards!!! I can NOT BELIEVE there are people in this world who think that movie is better!!! It's so fucking cheesy and lame and fucking boring as shit! The Penguin is annoying, Catwoman is ridiculous, and Bruce Wayne is a whiny, brooding bitch. PERIOD!!!
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The Dark Knight IS a masterpiece. Too bad you can't appreciate it for what it is. Why so serious, dude?
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Unobtainium predates THE CORE by about 4 decades, if not more.
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Jettl93's stitch is no longer funny. I used to laught at it, but now, it outstayed it's welcome, if you know what i mean.
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Jun 14, 2010 10:20:59 AM CDT
Bush is a lot like the Titanic captain...
by somebodys_something_something
America is the Titanic.
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Avatar is the most financially successful movie of all time. That makes the opinion of all who dislike it irrelevant. McDonald's is the most financially successful restaurant of all time. Anyone who were to disagree is irrelevant. Katy Perry sells more music than Arcade Fire. In short: Avatar, McDonald's, Katy Perry and conservatism is and will forever be dominant because the masses are always correct in their opinion and wisdom.
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so it's still a Kathy Griffin groin discussion
c'mere girl
we're gonna do orange p0rn
In the cheeto'verse
we bigtime zekzy -
Esp. since a live-action remake is being planned (of the novel, actually, not the anime per se). It would be interesting to see if he even knew about it, but it sounds like his idea had been maturing for years in parallel.
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For me a true masterpiece is something like Godfather, Chinatown, Citizen Kane, Rashomon, the Bicycle Thief, GoodFellas, Taxi Driver, etc. I just can't put TDK in that category.
Masterpiece of super-hero fiction, I'll give you that, even though it was too "serious" for my taste. -
And maybe Catwoman too.
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Jun 14, 2010 11:07:00 AM CDT
somebody_something, you have to work on your analogies...
by coughlins laws
you have to give us more than "America is the Titanic...". Explain why Bush is like the ship's captain. Explain specifically what he did that was similar to the captain. Make me laugh...
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Anguished Penguin
Or whayeverthehellitis
somebodygivehimajob
Someplace way in the back
The universe can't stand anymore orange -
Jun 14, 2010 11:10:31 AM CDT
Ledger's Joker wasn't this amazing performance everyone wanted t
by broseph
BULLSHIT
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(And Quint's right...it's probably INSOMNIA, which actually improved on the Scandanavian original)
Said it once, say it again: that Pollyanesque ferry "resolution". I might have bought that "hero who's taught the city to care" bullshit in SPIDERMAN, but this is fucking Gotham City, for Chrissakes. If anything, Gotham only gets WORSE. That's why Batman's eventually joined by Robin, Batgirl, Huntress, Batwoman, The Outsiders, etc. etc. Even Catwoman...and now there's TWO fucking Robins.
Yeah, that's the comic version, but do you get the picture? Gotham's basically a crime-ridden shithole that murdered Wayne's parents, and he's exacting revenge one criminal at a time. BEGINS ended on *exactly* the right note...the Joker's card indicated that Batman had made a difference, but the criminals were simply raising the ante and playing dress-up too.
Nolan's casting of the Joker as bin Laden and Gotham as NYC might have been a pleasingly dopey allusion to 9/11 (and man, is that drum getting beaten a little too often...screenwriters, move the fuck on), but it was a bad fit for the fictional locale, and served to undermine Batman's self-imposed duty to his dead parents. He'll still fight crime even if it's been reduced to jaywalkers and turnstile-hoppers. Like Rorschach in WATCHMEN said, it's in the blood.
Oh, and Alfred? You're wrong...the bandit didn't give the jewel to the child because he "wants to see the world burn". He was saying, "Fuck you, Britain...I've got the loot, and thanks to that, the support of the people. My eyes and ears are all around you, now." -
You can bet your ass that when Godfather, Chinatown, Citizen Kane, Rashomon, the Bicycle Thief, GoodFellas and Taxi Driver came out, there were many people who didn't consider them masterpieces. Same with THE DARK KNIGHT. TDK is a masterpiece. Masterpieces came in all sizes and shapes, but never before in the history of cinema as a superhero comic book movie. TDK is a masterpiece, you better accept that fact.
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Please make it happen , Nolan after Bats 3... and as much as I loved Dark Knight Returns don't let Miller anywhere bear it
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I don't know for sure which is Nolan's best movie. Might be Memento, might be The Prestige, might be The Dark Knight. I haven't decided yet. However, this just reflects one important thing: Nolan short career has many great movies.
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I can appreciate The Dark Knight as much as the next person. I just don't think it's a great movie, merely a good one. I still appreciate it though. It has some very good moments. I just don't consider it to be better than Batman Begins. I'm off for a jog, to the sounds of Rocky 4 :)
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The Joker isn't a stand in for Bin Laden, he's supposed to be Al-Zarqawi.
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I'll say it again. In terms of a Batman movie, Batman Begins is FAR superior to TDK. As far as actual cinema goes, TDK is FAR superior to Batman Begins. As far as the interrogation scene, I see a still young Batman acting just like he did in that scene. In TDK remember that Batman still isn't very seasoned/grounded yet. I hope that in Nolan's next Batman we will see a further grounded Batman, or the more calculated, "in control" Batman that was described above.
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I enjoy all of Nolan's time-bending editing, which has been present in all of his movies except The Dark Knight. And I enjoy watching the birth of Batman more than his fall.
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IN HASSELHOFF WE TRUST.
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I loved Dark Knight, for me should have been nominated for Best Picture, and one of my top 10 for the decade. I can't imagine it will ever be referred to as a masterpiece, but either way need to give it time for it t even contend with the likes of Godfather or Rashomon
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But I don't have to. Just like you don't have to accept me saying it isn't a masterpiece.
I accept that I am not infallible or the final arbitrator, can you accept the same? -
I saw the twists coming early on, but still, that movie is brilliant. Lots of unlikable characters, though. Except for Michael Caine. He's always awesome.
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Evan does
Chorus of really hot chicks *Yeah!*
Is wrong of me to want to put a hurtin to evan?
Evan,thats a purdy name,p>
wee'l see if we can't get the patron saint of shark jumpin twe plays yews
he lewks liak an Evans -
Ok my friend, you know I am not one for being confrontational, but your statement of "TDK is a masterpiece you better accept that fact" comes off as arrogant. Yes, to you, it's a masterpiece, and that's fine, but that statement comes across not as your opinion, but as cold hard fact, when in fact, there are varying opinions about the film. Some people did not think it was as great a film as you do, there are some that didn't even like it at all (that I do not understand at all, it was not even close to being a bad movie, but to each his own I suppose). That doesn't mean that the people who think less of it are stupid, or have bad film taste, it just was not as special to others as it was to you, nor do people HAVE to accept the fact that it's a masterpiece because to some people, it just is not. Granted, most people liked it and I am certain it is going to be regarded as a classic film, but that does not mean that people who have a lesser love for the film are flat out wrong. To those people, it is what it is to them, to you it's a masterpiece, to others, not so much, but that doesn't make them, or you, right or wrong. It's imply a matter of opinion and personal taste. Your statement of "masterpieces come in all sizes and shapes" is absolutely correct, thus what is a masterpiece to one may not be to another. You and I have a mutual respect for one another, and I say this as your friend, not as someone trying to stir shit up, but I am sure you understand that. You are highly opinionated and very passionate about movies, as are many of us. But you know that no one person is right any more than another, at least I would hope so. Ok rant over, carry on LOL.BTW, I watched Shutter Island last week, did you see it and if so what is your take on it? I loved it, a total mindfuck.
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Someone said they don't need "angst" in their Superman. So we should remove Pa Kent's death scene from Superman 1? And Lois' death and resurrection? And Superman giving up his powers for her in Superman 2? No angst there... Avatar is entertainment. The Dark Knight is thought-provoking entertainment. The special effects in Avatar were extraordinary. Heath Ledger's performance was the best special effect in the Dark Knight. Two separate movies with two completely different methods, goals and rewards. Some of the Rolling Stones' individual songs *may* be superior to the Beatles in a song-by-song comparison (i.e., Satisfaction vs. Day Tripper, both of which came out the same month in 1965), but aside from Beggar's Banquet and Let It Bleed, no full album from the Stones can possibly measure up to the depth and consistency of a Beatles album, aside from say Help! or Yellow Submarine. Usually about four good songs and shit-ton of filler in any Stones album. (70's Stones doesn't count because the Beatles had broken up by that point, and anyway Lennon's Plastic Ono Band destroys all competition.) Looking forward to Inception!
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Where did Unobtainium come from? Anyway, to everyone else, Nolan rules, Burton sucks, and if you disagree, what has Burton done lately? Oh fuck, now people are gonna say "Alice in Wonderland" was awesome! "Inception," and "Batman 3" are the only movies I care about right now.
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My Batman is a detective
and you can't merchandise that -
it isn't a masterpiece. a very good movie but it came off very cold to me. i am in the group that prefers batman begins. what is exciting is that we haven't gotten nolan's masterpiece yet. sometimes as someone has already mentioned he has a procedural style and occasionally that leaves me cold. i'm waiting for a nolan movie that hits me emotionally like bladerunner.
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Has really gone down the tubes. He is all style and no substance now. I have not seen Alice yet, and I am sure I will as the women in my house (fiance wants to see it , and stepdaughter saw it) out vote me, and seeing as they put up with all I make them watch I cant really complain. But damn he has really hit the wall creatively. He is turning into the remake guy, but only if you want your remake to look really trippy but have no substance whatsoever. Like many of us have said, box office does not equal quality. So Alice made a shitload of money, big deal, all that means is that Burton will be able to make more shitty remakes instead of actually pulling an original idea out of his ass, something he has not done for quite some time. If when I see it I like it, I will admit to as much, but I am not hopeful that I will like it. I used to look forward to a Burton film. Sadly, I don't anymore and have not for some time. If it's one thing I cant stand it's wasted talent.
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it's meh. i agree with your assessment of burton. big fish was very good though.
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enjoyed Corpse Bride, Sweeny Todd was ok, but Alice really isn't worth the effort, its high up there in the long list that is "disappointing movies of 2010"
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Yeah, I know what you mean. I used to be slightly amused by Jett but the joke has continued for FAR too long now. I wish he'd sod off.
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But it seems some people are already calling it that and get upset at others who don't accept that as fact.
I don't mind people saying they "think" it is great, just as I don't mind when people personally don't like it. But when people state opinion as fact is when I lose some patience.
I don't mind debates but I don't need sermons. -
raimi's spiderman 2 is the best superhero movie thus far. very satisfying movie for me.
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Neither of them is better than average.DARK KNIGHT, however, has it all over BEGINS, which is pretentious, poorly filmed and edited dribble.Now, yell at me. I don't care.
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Jun 14, 2010 12:23:52 PM CDT
HOWARD THE DUCK IS THE BEST COMIC MOVIE EVER
by richard_gere_raped_my_gerbil
I'll fight anyone who says differently.
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"It vasn't lies, Jenny! It vas achting!"
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You could almost consider TDK to NOT be a super hero movie, as it is pretty much devoid of the things that are typical in such a movie, if anything it could be better classified as a crime drama WITH a super hero, the fact that it is Batman puts it into super hero territory, but I see it as actually the furthest thing from a super hero movie, more of a high tech detective/crime drama. But that could very well be why it had such a wider appeal than any other super hero film.
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Yup, you got it right, Howard is vastly superior to all other comic book movies. Oh and I am sorry but i enjoyed The Rocketeer and I am not ashamed to say it.
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Good to see someone else with taste here.
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... I would say Heat even though that movie has many genres within it. (drama, romance, thriller etc.) and is the best movie of the 90's, if not of all time. IMO anyways.
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That is all. Sorry.
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loved it when it came out, but I was the perfect target age, made the helmet & backpack out of cardboard. How does it hold up now?
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Don't deny The Rocketeer!Timothy Dalton for the win!
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A young, hot Jennifer Connolly, Twisted Timothy Dalton, and good old fashioned Mob Bosses turned patriots in the end. A catchy musical score! Great old school Hollywood, Errol Flynn fun!!
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Okay, that's cool you don't dig the Bale Batman movies, but how on God's Earth do you describe "Batman Begins" as "pretentious?" Do you actually know what that word means? Just saying.
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Actually, one of the things I really do like about Nolan's take on Batman is that he is going back to the 1939-40 version of him. He isn't a superhero as much as a modern day Pulp Hero/masked crimefighter, ala The Shadow, Zorro, The Spider & the Green Hornet.
That is why I prefer TDK much more than BB. Batman Begins has to many comic book/superhero plot devices (Microwave cannon, fear gas in the water that will be vaporized, and League of Shadows for example). I think most of these comic book stuff is actually the hand of Goyer and not Nolan and personally I think as the series goes on it will get better because I think Nolan will be able to move further away from Goyer's "contributions." -
You are cool and i like and respect you, you know that, but you still wrong about TDK, friend. Sorry. The future will be very kind to TDK and vindicates all those who hail it for the masterpiece that it is.
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Jun 14, 2010 2:33:19 PM CDT
D.Vader, really? You saw those twists early on in The Prestige?
by coughlins laws
You really knew that they were clones and twin brothers? Really?
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It's the same arrogance of those who know that gravity and evolution is the truth and as response to those tho fail to see the obvious. For those, it will come off as arrogant. For those who know, it's just stating the facts.
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The Unobtaniumis a SF injoke which is shared by engineers. Bascially, Unobtanium in Sf is any mcguffin type substance or alloy that allows impossible things to happen. You know, for example, the dillitium crystal in Star Trek that aloow faster then light speed to happen, is a form of unobtanium because it's an impossible subtance that doesn't exist in the universe and has impossible, almost magical, properties. In engeneering, Unobtanium is a mock name the engeers give to any type of alloy with perfect characteristic that would be need to resolve some engireering problem. It's basically an injoke.
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1) Just add "I am pretty sure" or "I thinK" to your line "The future will be very kind to TDK and vindicates all those who hail it for the masterpiece that it is."
2) Gravity and evolution can be tested and backed up by science and peer approval testing. I mean, I drop a fork it falls - gravity proven.
Art cannot be scientifically proven or tested because it is all subjective. So unless you can produce the mathematically formula that says something is good or can produce the magical element "Goodtanium" that is in all good movies, than you are just stating a personal opinion AND not a fact.
When you talk that that you sound like the characters from A Mighty Wind who were in W.I.N.C (Witches In Nature's Color):
"Humankind is simply materialized color operating on the 49th vibration. You would make that conclusion walking down the street or going to the store." -
You know why it's relatively easy to figure out the twists in THE PRESTIGE? Well, first of all, if like D. Vader you watch the movie knowing there are twist,s you are already lookign for them. And the movie NEVER HIDES them. That's the thing the movie does that's like a illusionalism act: it has the secrets all right in front of you. What the movie does is not hide the twists, but it obfuscates them with misdirection. And the movie always puts the "secret" right in front of us, for us to see. Never hides anything. That's the most amazing thing about the movie, how it never hides anything, it's all in the table for us to see. Have you ever wonder why the movie even opens with the voice-over saying "are you watching closely?". It's amazing! My awe for THE PRESTIGE has no bounds.
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Very cool, glad I know that now. Agree with you about "The Dark Knight" as well. It's not perfect, but it IS a masterpiece. So saying any Avatar sequel could be better than a Nolan Batman sequel would be "Unobtainium?"LOL.
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"evolution can be tested and backed up by science and peer approval testing"Tell that to the creationists.Movie geekry is full of crationist,s people who fail to see the very obvious for their oen reasons and agendas. THE DARK KNIGHT is a masterpiece. Jar Jar Abrams's STAR TREK IN NAME ONLY is an horrible dumb stupid failure of a movie. This is the obvious. some, evne many people fail to understand this very basic obvious thing. Why? for many reasons,but the important thing is, they fail to see what's right in front of their eyes. That's how it is. My opinion is that fortunarly i really care about movies to not be fooled by quackes and to see the real gold when i have the oportunity to be presented with it. All you need is love.
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you would excuse him mischaracterizing Superman and even support him. The World's Greatest Superhero is not sacred to you and you feel beholdent to Nolan's vision.
I understand your support for and faith in, Nolan, who is a great director, but that does not mean he's incapable of mischaracterizing Superman. -
Well, i ask, what is a perfect movie? Is it a combination of perfectly realised technical achievements? a collection of great performances? In truth, what is a perfect movie? My take on it is, a perfect movie is one that accomplishes what it set to do. As such, i reckon there's quite some perfect movies, like TTDK, or Carpenter's THE THING, RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, JAWS, BLADE RUNNER, 2001: A SPACE ODDYSSEY, AGUIRRE: THE WRATH OF GOD, THX 1138 (initial version) APOCALYPSE NOW, PERFUME: A STORY OF A MURDERER, HEAT, and so many other, smaller movies and lesser known but which completly achieve their golds remarkably.For example, i just watched a movie which i would call perfect by those measurements i said above. The movie is caleld VALHALLA RISING. Many will say the movie is boring, or that it's slow, that nothing happens, that there is no character developement , there there is not enough explanations (in fact the movie has none whatsoever). But as a realisation of the filmamkers' intent, the movie is a massive sucess. The movie is what the filmmakers wanted it to be. And it helps that it's a pretty good movie, pretty off-beat and not to everybody's tastes (specialy among the Jar Jar Abrams Braindead Talibans Crowd) but admirable nontheless. I can't think of any way the movie could improve on the execution of it's intentions. ^so, there it is what's for me is a perfect movie. And as such, again i repeat, TDK is a perfect movie.
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Jun 14, 2010 2:54:50 PM CDT
But Asi don't you see you are acting like a creationist
by continentalop
You are going by a "belief" and stating it as fact. There is no proof that God created man or even exist other than people's personal faith and belief system. God cannot be proven, and but Creationist refuse to accept that or listen to anyone who dares bring up an alternate opinion about Creation. Anyone who does so is a heretic to them.
Well, you can not scientifically say TDK is a great movie, you can only say it is your personal belief. And you can't get upset at people for bringing up an alternate viewpoint because neither one of you has any sort of actual "science" or "facts" to prove your belief. You can only bring debate it on a philosophical level.
I am a skeptic in life and at the movies. I refuse to believe any thing that is true cannot withstand other people's doubts or skepticism. If it can't it must not be that strong of idea or film to begin with. -
No, i just agree with Nolan's take on Superman. I already had this idea about Superman before Nolan voiced it. As a portuguese myself, and thus, as a non-american, and as froma country which sent a lot of immigrants to your country, i can't help but see superman as the ultimate emigrant. He is an alien, he is an emigrant. I find no suprise at all that Superman was created by two jewish kids, sons of emigrants from eastern europe. superman would had never been created by anybody who would be from a long time established american family. superman is clearly the product of those who experience first and second hand the immigrant experience.Superman is an immigrant, Superman is an alien, and about time a movie starts to explore, with more depth, that much ignored facet of the character. Seems the Nolans are doing as good an insight for Superman as they were for Batman.
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I don't have beliefs, i have convictions. There's a difference. Convictions came from observation. Belief came from cognitive dissociation. My conviction about TDK cames from watching a movie that is a masterpiece. TDK is a materpiece, deal with it. It miht never be your favorite movie, that's OK, there's a masterpiece i don't particulary like it much either, CASABLANCA. I don't liek it much, havne't seen it for 20 years already, have no hurry to rewatch it, but despise my non-preference for itl i know it's a masterpiece of cinema. It would be stupid of me to say otherwise. Can you dig it? TDK is a masterpiece i happen to like. Can you dig it?
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Jun 14, 2010 3:11:34 PM CDT
Asi I can deal that you love TDk and think it is a masterpiece
by continentalop
What I don't like is your condescending attitude with whomever doesn't share your belief (yes, I said belief).
Convictions are not always right. Racist have convictions, so do fascist. A lot of Americans have convictions about using torture. Just because it has a much more sophisticated word doesn't make it right.
You love TDK and what to talk about all the reasons you think it is great, more power to you. You insulting people for not having the intelligence to recognize it's genius like you somehow magically can - that I can't dig. Saying "In Nolan I Trust" is not an argument - it is a statement of religious faith. -
Great piece!!! Nolan is an artist and an incredibly talented one, intelligent and professional. I love hearing him speak about film. Thanks Quint.
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because Superman is the immigrant who came to American and made good, found a home, a purpose, an identity. Not all immigrants stories are ones of pain and angst.
And nobody wants to watch a morose Superman. Superman is supposed to be the dynamic, hopeful, and optimistic hero who inspires everyone, including his fellow heroes. They told the story of Superman feeling like an outsider in Superman Returns. I like that movie very much, but many fans turned on it for a reason.
We want a larger-than-life Superman. A Superman with a huge warm heart and a twinkle in his eye. Remember that moment in Superman The Movie when Superman saves the cat from the tree, gently scooping the cat up and returning him to the little girl. He smiles at the girl, softly pets the cat, and flies away. That's Superman. He's happy to have a home and a place where he can do good, where he can cultivate hope and make a difference.
I know people say that because Krypton was destroyed it should weigh on his heart. That's a vaild point, but I see it differently. Clark was an infant when Krypton blew up. Were he a teenager the angst and heart ache and sense of lonliness would be appropriate. Of course Krypton's demise will always be a part of Clark, but it would not make him bitter or sullen. Instead it would make him even more protective of Earth; he would do all he could to ensure that the world which adopted and loved him would not suffer the same tragic fate. -
Experiencing a new Superman through the investigations of a suspicious Batman would be so utterly badass. Cat woman stealing some kryptonite thing, etc. But Seriously this would be amazing, and it keeps Superman alien and strange, and he would be!
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Jun 14, 2010 3:24:34 PM CDT
Especially with a huge warm heart and a twinkle in his eye
by the green gargantua
Know what I mean?
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Because it's a fact that TDK is a masterpiece and not just a matter of opinion, right?
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Probably in my top 20 if not top ten of all time, just love the hell outta that movie, in fact if I had to pick a Nolan movie that was my favorite, that would be it. As much as I love Nolan's Batman movies, I think I look forward more to his non-Batman movies even more.
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Belief schmifery! Belief my ass! Belief yourself, friend. I think TDK is a masterpiece, coincidently TDK is a masterpiece, and i love it. I think CASABLANCA is a masterpiece, coincidently it is a masterpiece, and i don't like it. TDK is a masterpeice and you don't think it because you have a chip on your shoulder against that notion, for whatever reason that's particular and peculiar to you. The thing is, it's not my proiblem that if you can't understand TDK for the masterpiece it is. It's your problem, really. Maybe one day you will come around. As for condescendign, nothing is mroe condescending then you claim people having beleifs when they don't have. Just because you don't know how to use a concept and you use one you know to otheras which is misaplied do not make you right. Many people who have beliefs, like you do, can't understand people who don't, like me. So you shove it where it doesn't fit. Sorry, but you are mistaken. You faithboys should start to realise once and for all that not everybody goes by the world with the same way you do. Deal with it.
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An informed opinion.
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I think I see a hint of sarcasm in your post....but regardless I will say that it IS a matter of opinion, not fact. It is only a matter of fact to those who believe it is a masterpiece, and that's fine, thats what they believe and are entitled to that opinion. I believe that TDK will be regarded as a classic, a masterpiece? Not sure about that yet. But, that is, only my humble opinion.
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What i don't udnerstand about you is your automatic association of focusing on Superman's alien nature as if it would make it automatically morose? Why would that be so? Really, it's you who sees morose in the notion. Me, i see a fertille ground for cool characterization and for entertaining plotting.
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Unless you are a pure blooded indian, the vast majority of americans are descendent from immigrants. Superman as an imigrant goes to the deep core of being american. How can you not see it?
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I did not say TDK WAS NOT a masterpiece, I merely said I wasn't sure about that yet. Either way, whatever I believe, it will be considered a classic, of that I am pretty damn sure, whereas I feel Avatar, as good as it was, will not be considered a classic, TDK is a far superior film, I don't care how much cash Avatar made.
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"...once and for all that not everybody goes by the world with the same way you do."
Right, I'm a faithboy because I have a healthy amount of skepticism and don't believe anyone here has some sort infallible taste in movies, while you go by the assessment that you somehow know what is good, bad or great yet can't prove it. You work on a magical conviction that is above reproach or doubt.
Gotcha.
Talk a good look in the mirror Asi, I believe you just described yourself. -
You know what subjective stuff you and I sometimes bandy about? Well, if you would just say something like:"In my opinion, TDK is a masterpiece."as opposed to:"TDK is a masterpiece. Deal with it."...you'd probably wouldn't catch nearly as much shit as you do here at AICN. And your nose-in-the-air stubborness might not come off nearly half as prickish.
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"alien" is often code for cold, slightly withdrawn/apart from human beings, and angst-ridden.
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In movie opinions, none, no one opinion is any more correct that the other. No one has THE definitive opinion. What is good to one, may not be as good to the other, and that doesn't make any one person right or wrong, just different in their opinions. Lop...you are correct in that no one, on here or anywhere, has an infallible taste in movies, because, like it or not, that is the truth, there is NO ONE that has a perfect taste/opinion about movies. No one is 100% right, nor is anyone 100% wrong. I dont know about anyone else, but I do not need anyone to tell me what is good and what is not, and I take offense at anyone who thinks they need to tell me what's good or bad, because I know, according to my personal tastes, and nothing anyone can say will change that.
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he feels like one. At his core he is Clark and Clark is as human as anybody else on Earth.
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What the fuck? I start scanning through the talkback here at Asimovlives News (seriously, every other post has contained his name since he resurfaced) and some woman suddenly starts telling me about eye drops. My fucking arrow was nowhere near that advert. What fucking madness is this?Harry - you and me will have words about this.
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Thanks.
Personally I wish we weren't even debating this subjective taste thing but instead arguing the merits of Batman/Superman foes and arguing who should be used in the movies. -
I'm glad Avatar didn't win many Oscars. Just to show people that how many cash a movie makes doesn't automatically deserve the Oscar for best Picture.
Even though the effects were great, the story and characters were weak. Period.
James Cameron; great director but the whole concept looked like it could've come from people like Uwe Boll / Roland Emmerich. Only Cameron can afford better actors and has a huge budget. Which makes it a huge dissapointment.
I don't necessarily look for Superman movie in 3D. I would be happy if Nolan/Goyer are capable to make a great Superman movie first. Sure we are meant to believe that a man can fly and it's important but not the most pivotal thing that should be addressed first.
The nightmare is that Nolan and company make Superman suck and that after 30 years we still don't get a movie that "gets" Superman and that would really suck. -
Jun 14, 2010 4:17:25 PM CDT
but the whole concept looked like it could've"from people like U
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
I'm all for people having dissenting opinions, but that comment immediately negates the rest of what you said."Only Cameron can afford better actors and has a huge budget."He's also an infinitely more skilled director. What - you think a huge budget negates hard work and talent? What further infuriates me is the Avatar haters insisting that the movie was praised for making a lot of money. These are the same clowns that railed on Avatar for months on end, declaring that it would be the biggest bomb of all time; now, in the wake of its success, its record haul is taken for granted and it was apparently now a done thing that it would be a smash (and consequently rewarded). Two faced cowards all. Fucking ass.
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Cause that's his best movie...
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Nolan will nail it. I very much doubt that he will try to retro-fit the character into a gritty, uber-realistic mold. That was appropriate for Batman, because that fits the intent of that character (no super-powers, bleak dystopia, the character as detective), but Superman will be approached on his own terms (real superpowers and fantastical elements, colorful, the positive flipside to Batman). These two characters are the ying and yang to each other. The best comparison I ever heard concerning the two universes was that Superman is how America sees itself, and that Batman is how America really is. Apple pie, cheeseburgers, baseball, mom and pop, community spirit, and patriotism Vs crime, mobsters, the dark side of a capitalist society, and political corruption. These two superhero universes were models for the duelling sides of 20th century America and its development. I want Nolan to play off that, and bring some of the post 9/11 21st century updatedcommentary from his Batmans to the new Superman movie, but in an opposing and contrasting way.
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Jun 14, 2010 4:32:05 PM CDT
Nolan could nail a damned "Mr. Roger's Neighborhood" movie...
by cletus van damme
...and have my ass in the line on opening night.He's one of about 3 directors to whom I would give carte blanche as a studio head and trust that the finished product would be stellar.
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Stop with the fucking subjective bullshit already. It's old and it no long works anymore.
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I think Avatar has a place in the history of cinema. But i fear the movie is more of a fad of the moment then a true keeper. Maybe it's like you said, Avatar will never be a true classic. And TDK already is. TDK became an instant claassic the day it was first released. Some movies are like that. Avatar might be the new Titanic, huge sucess back in the day, nobody cares much for it nowdays. Truly, it seems the day when Cameron pulled classics one after the other are gone.
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Lots of great tidbits there. Nolan is obviously the real deal. Just his mention of Glenn Ford tells me that - imagine, he actually has a grasp of Hollywood history before his birthdate. Besides, Ford rocks in his brief Superman appearance. As much as I hate the idea of yet ANOTHER reboot of Superman (I thought Singer was well on track for a great second film), I'm glad Nolan is in charge. As for Batman 3, I'm hoping he pulls back from the darkness a little and just makes a truly thrilling Batman movie.
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I enjoy BB far more than I do TDK. It's the difference between a smart but fun comic book movie and a movie that tries to TRANSCEND the comic book genre and in doing so becomes kind of convoluted, bloated and depressing. Pull back a little, Chris. It's just popcorn.
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God how I fucking HATE that ridiculous bullshit by TDK enthusiasts. I'll go back and read some of these replies, but I wanted to respond to Quint without influence of the talkback. I think it's well-shot and most of the acting is great (though there's an awful lot of OVERacting, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not). But there are serious story and dialogue issues that somehow get shrugged aside. The same way that actual critique of the film gets shrugged aside. Which is. Total. Utter. Bullshit. And if you want to know specifically what's wrong with it, find a way to go back to the month it frigging premiered and find my rant then.
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I forgot from all the times before that TDK enthusiasts on AICN largely are made up of assholes who just like to shout you down a lot. The good ones are great, but they are in the vast minority. Migraines, man, migraines.
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You nailed it. And I hope you're right. A Batman-like Superman just doesn't work - it would be like putting salsa on ice cream. I still remember the roar of laughter and applause in the theatre when Christopher Reeve said "The American Way" back in 1978 - believe it or not we were an even more weary and cynical country at the time, and people loved the audacity of that phrase being used in a pure and unironic fashion. That's Superman.
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...I've got a slab of granite that you might want to try to dent with your skull, if you get tired of that.
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LOL. The fact that you don't like CASABLANCA - a movie that I have (had) yet in my entire life been able to find ANYONE who didn't appreciate it on just an entertainment level - that says everything we need to know about you. No wonder you're so arrogant in declaring TDK a masterpiece. You don't know what the word means, evidently.
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I don't want to sound like a jerk, but your definition of the "comic book genre" seems awfully narrow. Are you saying comics are only about fun? Because I thought that TDK, dark as it was, wasn't as dark as some Batman comics. And some comic book worlds are quite convoluted (in a good way). I like that we can have the best of both worlds: movies like Iron Man 1 that are fun; movies like TDK that are more serious.
Now if we could only get a Sandman movie within my lifetime... -
Well said, to you as well. Nice post on the Superman mythos. Good to see some genuine thought and intelligence on this board, and not just "shouting down" as others have said.
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One man's depressing film is another man's catharsis. ha!
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Lets turn this around: A lot of those Avatar fanboys i talked to say that Cameron was robbed of the Oscars and he should've won the important ones. Why i asked and i got the because Avatar made a lot of money. So you see that retarded "moneymaking cashcow routine" cannot only be attributed to Avatar haters but also to Avatar lovers who naively think that a movie that makes shitpile of money automatically deserve Oscars and everything else there is. I'm glad it got recognition in the technical fields. As for everything outside that it was rightly ignored at the Oscars because it wasn't that great.
For your info: I didn't look at the trailer at the time and said: Well gee, i hope it sucks. Cameron is a great and skilled director. I wasn't concerned about the special effects because i knew he wouldn't settle for third rate effects. I was concerned about the story and that didn't change when the movie came out. For someone who we hold in high regards because he's about the best action director Hollywood has and directed movies we all love we expect better. From people like Uwe Boll/Roland Emmerich we don't expect much because they're basically a one trick pony and if you ask me a bad one at that.
And for someone who has had 14 years to work on a script, a big budget and good actors and this (and with this i mean the story obviously not the effects)is what he can come up with. That makes it dissapointing. I wonder that in the coming years when more and more movies like that will make it in cinemas that you really can judge the movie for what it is. It's the movie that raised the bar high for special effects but it lacked a great story/characters to really engage.
So as it stands:
1)Cameron: great director
2)Avatar: apart from the special effects really dissapointing.
So don't give me crap that people who don't like Avatar can't give credits where credit is due.
They can but the trick is to listen and not get defensive about it as if its a personal attack.
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There is a difference between liking a work (of any kind) and recognizing its artistic merits. One can evaluate a piece of music objectively and then subjectively, same as a poem or a film. Neither is really a matter of belief.
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I think there is so only so much "reality" that can be pumped into a comic book premise and still be expected to work. Some grit and darkness gives it a nice texture, but too much and I think you lose what the genre is really about: cheap thrills, spills and chills that dazzle and invigorate. At some point, you're trying to make a comic book something it's not. For instance, it's not a philosophical treatise or existential meditation on man's loneliness. When comic book film BECOMES Film Noir it has lost it's joy somewhere along the way. And that's the way I felt about TDK, as impressive as it was on many fronts. I walked out feeling a certain heavy-handed pointlessness. That's my take. I got a bigger charge out of the Joker card at the end of BB, then out of the Joker himself. As good as the performance was, it was a real world sociopath and thus, ultimately, a bit of a drag. The whole film just felt weighted down by too much gravity. After all, it's still a film about a billionaire vigilante that dresses up as a bat and takes on villains like "Joker". Let's not get carried away.
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I hear what you're are saying about a film accomplishing it's goals. That's a good way of looking at films. Part of that with me is whether or not a story completely meshes fluidly. TDK had moments where it didn't feel right. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean to me that it is any less worthy of a film than another film which might hit that and not be as engaging as TDK. That's what I meant. TDK is AWESOME, and better than any other comic book movie ever, except maybe the Fantastic Four (Yes idiots, I'm joking). Batman Begins is more fluid than TDK in story structure, but it's scale isn't as big nor are the performances. But to me that doesn't mean it's better or worse than TDK. That comes from pure opinion and how the movie resonated with me. I won't argue with others who say BB is better than TDK, cause structurally it is. However, if your definition of a perfect film is what TDK achieved in your mind, then it's perfect. If you ask me, the most perfect film ever is "Lawrence of Arabia." It has the best of the big 5, directing, acting, script, cinematography, and musical score. Some will say it's a boring movie with camels walking in a desert. They can go ahead and say that. "Aguirre The Wrath of God" is a fascinating film, but not my favorite. My point is that we all have our own definition of a perfect movie. For crying out loud people here think B Returns is better than any Nolan batman. We all have our own formula for a perfect movie. TDK to me isn't perfect in structure, but in my formula, it's still a masterpiece. What's the difference between what I said and what you said? Who cares, to anybody reading, we both think TDK is awesome, which it is.
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In response to Paladinryan, not AsmimovLives.
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yeah i don't think i've ever met anyone who has not liked casablanca either. casablanca is the definition of a masterpiece. i personally liked dark knight a lot but there is something about it that keeps it out of heavy rotation for me. there are films i will watch over and over again. for example road warrior, casablanca, shawshank redemption etc. tdk doesn't have a high rewatchability factor for me.
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overrated. Memento - far too predictable an ending, Prestige - shit ending, Insomnia - couldn't stick with it to the end, TDK - had at least two endings and the last was the worst, Inception - trailer looks shit.
BB was good, I concede that, if you ignore the train nonsense.
Superman will probably be boring. -
I get what you're saying, and it's fine if that's all what you want from the comic book genre, but then you're really making a statement about the content you prefer to see in that genre, not the genre itself. It's not fair to say that TDK tries to transcend the genre, when that genre is so multifarious to begin with. That's my only point.
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Ha, shouting when discussing the ultimate superhero and symbol of Truth, Justice, and the (ideal) American way just seems inappropriate.
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I have never ascertained that Avatar should have been awarded Oscars because it made a 'shit pile of money', or is a quality film because of that fact. The money aspect is thrown in the face of all those idiots who claimed the movie would be the biggest bomb since Waterworld, and subsequently got their asses handed to them. Even now, they try to deny the movie's obvious popularity. So it's a source of amusement to goad them with the financial grosses.Avatar deserved Oscars because it was a good movie, certainly the equal of most of the nominated crop of that year, and quite apart from its technical achievements. Many critics agree with that assessment, and that is why it recieved awards noms in the first place. Do you see every other huge grossing blockbuster getting nominated de facto of making piles of cash? So your argument doesn't hold up.As for your other points - sorry, but Avatar DID have engaging characters and emotional and resonant story (a classical, archetypal story by design is not the same as a poorly told or unengaging one). Again, merely a subjective opinion, but one shared by many others, though obviously not you.It also did not lose Oscars because of its failings, but due to the politics of the academy voting system. In any case, even if it did not deserve to win, neither did the extremely overrated Hurt Locker.In any case, you directly compared the content of the movie to Uwe Boll and Roland Emmerich, which is the height of stupidity. I can assure you that those two fools would never be able to direct anything as well crafted as Avatar, and you certainly are an idiot if you thinks so, though I'm sure taht was just attention seeking hyperbole on your part, although with lunatics like Trannyformers Apologist, I expect they deludedly believe their own bullshit. "I wonder that in the coming years when more and more movies like that will make it in cinemas that you really can judge the movie for what it is." Again, I and others can see the movie for 'what it is'. Don't make the mistake of making blanket statements just cause you weren't invited to the party, so to speak.P.S."And for someone who has had 14 years to work on a script" Cameron did not work on the script for 14 years. He wrote a lengthy treatment in 1995, and then wrote the actual script in the early part of 2006. And for the type of story he was trying to tell - an archetypal and universal fable in the vein of Star Wars - he could not have done better. I stated many times before its release that was what he was going for; thus I was not disappointed with the results. Perhaps you wished for more complexity or ambiguity, but a piece of material can only be judged against how well it satisfies its own intent.
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Saying the ending to Memento was predictable completely overlooks the manner in which that film's story was told as well as one of its major themes: cyclicality. What's great about that film is how the little surprises add up. In particular, I find the turns in Moss's character so fascinating.
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I agree that Superman's values should not be approached in an ironic fashion or downplayed. Remember that Superman Reborn project where they were trying to make the character dark and gritty, redesigning his 'faggy' costume (according to Kevin Smith) to black leather and trying to bring the material into line with Burton's Batmans? It seems to be the de facto thing to do with all superhero properties (save Iron Man) to a greater or lesser extent, but it doesn't work for Superman without compromising the character or the tone of his universe.
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Is that Pandora is just too damn unique biologically and ecologically speaking. The fact that the union of the life forms wasn't anything mystical but something actually PHYSICAL added a harder sci-fi element to a film I agree could have been closer to Star Wars. GL was smart in the OT not to spell out the nature of the Force too much. If you look at the original script to ESB which was recently leaked, you can see that he hadn't figured its rules out quite yet. In fact, if you compare Obi-Wan's speeches on the Force to Yoda's they're really quite different. Of course, as we all know Lucas went in a very different direction with the midi-chlorians--I know why he did this, but there was a price to pay in terms of tone and atmosphere.
Similarly, Cameron's decision to explain Eywa so throughly (a great idea) clashes with the flatter characters and simpler story that are more appropriate for the type of story you argue Cameron tried to tell. It's like a mixed metaphor.
I did find the characters emotionally resonant though. Lack of depth in characterization does not equal lack of feeling. But after I came out of the theater, the disjunction between the different elements of the story bothered me. -
sorry to jump into the convo but...what did you think about the aliens so closely mirroring native americans. that nearly killed the movie for me. he could have easily mirrored a feudal japanese culture and that may have worked better for me.
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Oh, bullshit you fucking coward. Good lord, man. Your stubbornness does you no favors. You clearly know that I'm right in that regard and, as it so happens, it has even been addressed by several others in this Talkback.You should take to heart what was posted by paladinryan. Take it to heart and then shut the fuck up before you try anymore of that half-assed bullshit response stuff.You either like something or you don't, Asimov. Just quit telling other people what to think.
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You know, it's kind of gotten to the point where it feels like I get a 50 ton anvil (courtesy of ACME / Warner Bros.) dropped on my head everytime I address that guy.
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So, you have a problem with Asimov saying things that some of us agree with, even though I don't agree with everything he says. However, it seems you are ready to suck off Paladinryan. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, I'll say what you want me to say. My opinion, Nolan fucking rocks. Avatar sucks big time!!! You are wrong and saying all of Nolan's film suck except for BB is an opinion I will never share or respect. Is that a strong enough statement or am I sugarcoating it?
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Yes, that bothered me (aside: I don't think the issue of race--Note I did not use the word racism!--in Avatar hasn't been carefully discussed in any internet discussion I've seen).
Again, it especially bothered me because Pandora is SO DIFFERENT from Earth. Look at how few organisms on this Earth are really symbiotic. That's why symbiosis is so fascinating to us--has been to me every since I was a kid and collected bugs. Now that's why I liked the idea Cameron had--to show a planet where symbiosis is the NORM, not the exception. But then he combined that with characters and civilizations we've seen before. So it felt really odd.
Let's look at Alien again. One of the great things about that film is how Scott takes a biology that is also not the norm--the life cycle of certain wasps and parasites (though parasitism is more common than symbiosis--but I'm talking about a specific type of parasitism). So we have this new exciting type of predator, but one strangely familiar, that takes on other associations as well, such as sexual ones.
Now Scott puts that into a horror context, just like Cameron put his biology in a archetypal context. But what did Scott do? I completely overhauled the horror movie, transforming each generic trope (the haunted house, the lone survivor, the unlucky travelers etc...) into something that fit the alien (an alien spaceship, a new heroine, a rough and tumble mining crew in suspended animation).
Cameron, on the other hand, did not transform his world enough for me. Thus what I felt was an awkward marriage of different aspects, which again made the characterization and group dynamics of the film a problem for me. The point is, the Earthlings CAN'T be like the N'avi--Earth is not Pandora, it doesn't have the same ecology. Thus the B&W conflict became really depressing--that last line about "a dying world"--quite unfair!
Look at Princess Monoke--a superior film to Avatar IMO that tries to say some of the same things. Now all the humans in that movie are on a level playing field in terms of what they can physically experience. More importantly, look at how Miyazaki presents even his villains as complex and not totally unsympathetic characters. I could go on, but I want to eat dinner now haha. -
Jun 14, 2010 6:44:54 PM CDT
I SHALL WRITE THIS POST IN THE STYLE OF "MOMENTO"
by richard_gere_raped_my_gerbil
bed.for mynow timeIt is
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And my paragraphing sucks. I might have to punch Dean Cain to make myself feel better.
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I just compared a cartoon to Avatar, and said the cartoon was better. ;-)
Also, obviously Scott overhauled the horror genre, not me. Don't know why I typed "I" there.
I also meant to say that Weaver as a rough space hauler presented a relatively different type of heroine.
Just to be clear: I did enjoy watching Avatar, and I'm not sure yet if TDK is a flawless film. I just said that TDK is the kind of film I want to see again, to go deeper into it, its issues and characters, whereas with Avatar not so much. I feel like one viewing was enough to appreciate its story and characters. I felt the same way about Iron Man 2. -
Make no mistake, TDK is a flawed film, that doesn't take away from its greatness IMO, but those that say it is without flaw are just blind. I talked about this in another TB a while back, and strangely enough, my points were not refuted.
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Perhaps you are ignorant of the ongoing "discussion" that exists between myself and senior Assimov? Because I'm not really sure where you're coming from with that out-of-the-blue post of yours. However, if you'll refer to rogueleader66's post at 03:47:00 PM, it makes the most succint point about the subject at hand. As for paladinryan, I was refering to his statement regarding subjective/objective evaluations of artistic merit.
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I think what Gaius is saying is look how Paladinryan has argued his point with view with calm restraint and respect for the people he's debating (including myself). That's the model that A.L. would do good to emulate. The effect is that people who might otherwise close their mind to what he's trying to say, will listen to him and give serious consideration to his points. Why? Because he listens to them. Most people just want to feel they have been heard, and then you can agree to disagree on certain things. Plus it just makes for a better, more intelligent talkback.
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Didn't mean to put words in your mouth. The above is actually my opinion.
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It makes for more interesting discussions, but only when there is respect for other opinions.
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No worries! You pretty much hit the mark.
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Ty for the compliment
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And you are an idiot and moron for suggesting that we should respect each other.
Sorry...couldn't resist. -
You are welcome. (And please forgive my apparent misspelling of "succinct"...)
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LOL.....yea well piss off, I dont respect a tool like youHmmmm this could be fun huh? Nahhhh it's only fun when there is genuine hostility...oh wait that's not fun it's just stupid LOL
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Hey no worries bro, if it were not for spell correction in my browser, I would have spelling errors as well, I type to fast sometimes and don't pay attention to what i'm doing LOL
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not the same as not having the internet
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I asumed that Jake would stay with the Na'vi. And to be honest, I don't even remember the girl being in danger of death; but if she did, I would have assumed she'd live. I always assume the romantic interest will live. So yeah -- predictable.
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Can you feel the love tonight? lol
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I wasn't speaking for Goldman, I was speaking for me. *I* found the story lacking in surprise; thus when I read that description, I realized it summed up my disatisfaction with AVATAR. You're right, Goldman did praise TITANIC as a story, though he also pointed out "howlers" of bad dialogue. But I've never heard his opinion of AVATAR. In any case, I didn't mean to imply I knew what he would think of it.
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Jun 14, 2010 8:11:59 PM CDT
Nobody Said Anything About "Nolan's" SUPERMAN Being "Dark."
by laserpants
Why? Because TDK was dark? Well, yeah, because it's about Batman and he's a dark, brooding, arguably mentally disturbed character. I haven't read ANYTHING that said this latest iteration of Superman is gonna be "dark" or "brooding." Why would they do that? I think people like Superman because he is this genuinely benevolent, positive, trustworthy, heroic character, and I suspect that the creators of this film, who managed to make the DEFINITIVE Batman films, are going to do just fine by Superman by keeping true to his nature. I can't wait to see it...
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so predictable with "nerd rage", that suddenly Nolan and Dark Knight becomes "overrated", the formula seems to work everytime; geek property + critical success (look at rottentomatoes, look at metacritic) + financial success = nerds calling it overrated.
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Sometime I think he just wants to argue for the sake of arguing, using the word "fact" is hillarious.
And to your comment on creationists, they sadly still exist even in countries with high rates of literacy, probably due to 2,000 years of indoctrination, wish thinking and fear of death -
There is definitely some alienation between Superman and us. Superman isn't all sunshine and bunnies. He has to keep his power in check, otherwise he might accidentally kill someone. This is what he tells Darkseid in a comic whose name slips my mind; he says that he admires Batman because Batman never holds anything back. But then he says just this once, for you, I'm going to unleash all the power I have. Plus, IIRC he gives Batman kryptonite, just in case he should ever lose control. Someone above pointed out the fact that he will also have to watch his loved ones die. So to me there's a lot of room for that kind of sad emotion there, even if the last Superman movie didn't execute it as well as it could have. I would like to see them do a different villain than Lex this time. Doomsday's Kryptonian backstory would be interesting to see on the screen at some point: more Krypton pre-explosion!
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in terms of his powers..
seriously, no strenght to lift a continent or spin a planet. For him to be a relate-able character, he needs to have his powers TONED DOWN. look at the animated series from the 90's, or the comic "Birthright" those were perfect in terms of getting this right. No long time in space w/out a spacesuit, and he can be killed by a large enough force, not just kryptonite. -
Jun 14, 2010 8:31:18 PM CDT
2,000 years of indoctrination, wish thinking, and fear of death
by paladinryan
I don't want to argue about religion here but I can't let such a broad paintbrush slide by:
1) Not all Christians are creationists, not now or ever in time (the early Christian theologians had conflicting interpretations of Genesis), in part due to the influence of Jewish and Greek allegorical thought
2) Ancient materialists argued that the existence of the afterlife would be scarier than oblivion because of the possibility of eternal punishment. Classic Christian thinking on death is pretty frightening--just look at the Sistine Chapel or listen to the Dies Irae. Or read the "To be or not to be" speech from Hamlet, which is all about the fear of a Creator and a wish that death was the end.
3) There's nothing incompatible between literary and belief in a Creator: Augustine loved his Aeneid and the humanists of the Renaissance like Petrarch and Erasmus were real scholars. -
SPOILERS Well, only half of that. I expected the twin, not the real magic. I'm on my iPhone and can't type well, but all the conspicuous lack of focus on Fallon made me think he was a twin. The other twist I was talking about was the Jackman death.
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Jun 14, 2010 8:34:18 PM CDT
paladinryan, I am going to disagree with some of your ideas
by continentalop
1) If this is a relaunching of the Superman franchise, I think you're going to need Luthor in it. He is his arch-enemy and one of the most important supporting characters in his universe. To not have him there in the beginning would be just be catering to fanboys desire of having a new villain instead of doing what is best for a true Superman story. Not saying you can't have another villain there BESIDES Luthor, but I do think Luthor has to be present and established as his arch-nemesis.
2) I don't think you show more Krypton pre-explosion. At least not at first. If you look at the evolution of Superman in the comic books his full back story and alien nature were not revealed until years after he first appeared. At first he was just an alien child, than they revealed his name Kal-L (later Kal-El), then his parents and his then started exploring the history of the world he came from. I think it would be cool NOT to see Krypton at first and reveal later on what it was like when they can spend some proper time on the planet.
3) I agree with you about sad emotion, just as long as they don't make it maudlin like Singer tried to do. Superman has feelings like everyone else, but he sure isn't a whiny moper. He has no self-pity at all in my book. -
That scene you are describing -- Supes talking to Darkseid about having to keep his powers in check -- is from the Justice League Unlimited cartoon. Which is, hands down, the best superhero cartoon ever.
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I'd already know there were twists. I tried to forget that fact as I watched, as I always try to do, but it's tough. I also knew disguises were involved, so when Fallon is first introduced and mysteriously brushed aside as if he wasn't important, well, then I knew he was important.
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http://i47.tinypic.com/2lwadrr.jpg
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http://i47.tinypic.com/2lwadrr.jpg
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Doesn't take a genius. So, as good THE PRESTIGE is in a lot of ways - and I think the ending is pretty mindblowing - that sort of ruined the movie for me, that the gimmick being used was so obvious from the start.
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Even when you're clearly joking around, people always take it literally. Jesus, if you hate a movie, great! TDK is good, no it's not, yes it is!!! Blah blah blah!!! But I love it!!!! Can't wait till the Batman 3 villain/s are announced so we can really get something started.
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I literally knew the twist 30 seconds out, when DiCaprio talks to his "partner" on the boat. No matter what happened from then on, it just felt like a long slog to a surprise that wasn't. If your story is dependent on a twist and it's transparent from the start... your movie ceases to work.
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But I don't think Gina Carano would be a good choice for Catwoman. Gina is just not lithe enough IMO.
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You're right, it was from JL. Still, I wonder if they took that from something that happened in the comics at some point. JL was amazing though--the last cartoon that made me want to cry (I refer to when Batman stayed with Ace when she died and then carried her out of the woods--devastating!)
CB, I'm not sure about your first point. Nolan restarted Batman with Ra's and Scarecrow, not the Joker. And IM still hasn't done Mandarin--I was pissed when he didn't appear a la the Emperor in ESB like Favreau hinted.
That's interesting about Superman's origin being revealed gradually, but while that works great in a serial form, I'm not sure it works as well in a film. Though perhaps they'll start the movie similar to how BB started with Bruce in the prison.
You're right though; Superman was too mopey in the reboot; maudlin is a good word. -
Jun 14, 2010 9:17:29 PM CDT
Superman needs to be done like Coen's Hudsucker Proxy
by eddiemurphyslaugh
Same cast, same setting, everything.
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I haven't seen the film yet, but my brother said the same thing. What tipped it off for him was when he's looking in the mirror and says "pull yourself together." Not a reliable narrator to say the least! I want to read the book though.
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If you dissect the craft, while being well above average, it is not close to The Godfather or The Dark Knight -- but as the first built-for-the-ground-up 3D movie and having been done so well, it has planted the seed of imagination in a future generation of film makers. Suck on it.
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I friggin' LOVE that final episode. It totally gets to me too. That show was SO good. It showed that they could do an intelligent, fun, exciting show that both kids and adults can enjoy. I generally like the DCU animations, but I think JLU was the peak.
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Lalalalalalalala.
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It would be interesting to start the movie with Supes dead, then show how he died, then have the last act be him resurrected and fighting someone else. In any case, I want to see a fresh approach to an origin movie!
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http://www.imdb.com/media/rm283476736/tt1243957 Johnny is looking like a bit of a chubster.
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The plot architecture you just described takes the entire ammount of piss out of doing a Death Of Superman movie. You probably would have started Armageddon with news that the world is in no danger.
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Wow, just noticed how much of a dickhead I just sounded like. Not on purpose
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I think you reversed what I said. Start the movie with Superman dead. How is that comparable to starting a movie about Armageddon with news that the world isn't in danger? Anyway, I was thinking of Ikiru and the way that they have the funeral for the main character, and then go back and discuss what happened with him (the funeral isn't in the beginning of the movie, but at the end).
Perhaps you mean that you want the movie to end with the death, not with the rebirth. Fine--but tis been done! Especially in those second act movies (ESB, POTC2). I'm just trying to think of something different. -
Both of those re-arrangements take the piss out of the tension leading up to the big moment. You blow the proverbial load.
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I guess I mean the audience has too much time to let the news gestitate before the events unfold before their eyes
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That should say: the funeral in Ikiru isn't at the beginning of the movie, but not at the end either--somewhere in the second half.
The problem I have with the kill the hero at the end of the movie, resurrect him in the next, is that the movies where they come back are often weak structurally as a result or let downs (Search for Spock, ROTJ). If you kill him in the middle of the movie, like Gordon in TDK, or even at the beginning (like Teddy), that makes for a fresher chronology.
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Well, you have a problem doing the Death Of Supes because you have to rewrite the resurrection... the original resurrection comics are not of the quality to submit to film. Lord knows nobody wants those 4 "new Supermen". But it would be funny that one would kind of be a remake of the Shaq movie Steel
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The Cyborg/Green Lantern thing is half worth salvaging
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Maybe in the middle then. Something different from X2 and Jean Grey (another example of killing a character than following it up with a weaker movie where they return).
In BB, I really liked how they killed Ra's and then brought him back waaaaay after he had "died."
Note too, that one of the best episodes of Batman the Animated series is "The Man Who Killed Batman." ;-) -
Jun 14, 2010 9:38:58 PM CDT
Paladinryan, there is a big difference between Luthor & the Joke
by continentalop
The Joker is Bats greatest foe and his nemesis, Lex Luthor is all that AND a suporting character. Joker is part of a string of Arch-Criminals who fight Batman (Joker, Two-Face, Catwoman, Penguin). Joker might the most infamous of them but he is just the first amongst equals. Lex Luthor is THE Superman foe - no hero or villain are as identified as being together as those two. You say Batman in the 60s or 70s and people were just as likely to say The Penguin or Catwoman as they were The Joker. But you say Superman at anytime after Luthor appeared and only Lex's name popped up. I mean, can you ever imagine any FF movie without Doom? Well, that is the same with Luthor.
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Man, that series was pretty ambitious with structure for a kid's show.
Anyway, there's a reason epics always start in media res. -
that is what was a let down for me. going into avatar i was hoping for an alien culture and that wasn't the case. cameron set up a fantastic alien world and seemed to just sketch in the n'avi. now i'm not looking for some kind of discovery channel alien anthropology documentary but it would have been great if cameron extrapolated what would an intelligent alien culture be like based on symbiosis with the planet. basically the planet can communicate rather overtly with it's inhabitants. i would have liked for the movie to touch on things like what is the political relations between the tribes. have they fought each other. does the tribe have a proprietary attitude towards hometree similar to jerusalem? that sort of thing. that may be asking to much from a movie but the n'avi just wasn't compelling to me.
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If you figured out "The Prestige," you'll have zero problem with "Shutter." Even I figured it out and I never figure anything out. Although, the main twist isn't really the big twist which most people missed.
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I totally Get what you'e saying with Search For Spock. Perhaps the last scenes of the Death Of Supes movie being the Fortress Of Solitude teaser from the white-bagged resurrection comic. Kind of an anti-cliffhanger.
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Just finished watching "The Incredible Hulk," did anybody else like that movie like I did? It's not BB, TDK or Iron man, but it's better than the others, I think anyway.
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Good Job fanboys.
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"Any REBOOTING of an FF movie." Because you could do a pretty good Inhumans without Doom, but that wouldn't be in the first FF movie that establishes the series.
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Yeah it is sweet. It is like a morning toke for my Ang Lee hangover
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Don't remind me of that. I have a scary suspicion that they will cop out and not have him in the next film, which will be a shame because I think you could easily adapt him to the Iron Man movie series.
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Are you referring to who killed the kids?
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Disney reboots it in Pirages PG-13 fasshion but as a Princess And The Frog visual quality animated feature with no musical numbers. Now thatn's how you indulge your inner fanboy
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and the concept art is all modernization of Kirby stuff
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SPOILERS:
Not a great movie by any stretch, but a lot better than what some people believe. It just suffers from the unfortunate fact that it was directed by Scorsese who we expect masterpieces from.
And yes, the Twist is totally predictable, but as TDN said that isn't the real twist. SPOILERS: The mystery is WHY is he insane and decided to live in this fantasy world he has constructed.
The surprise that it is a delusion is never meant to be a real surprise IMO. It is like THE NINTH CONFIGURATION or SPELLBOUND - no real mystery at any time that they guy is nuts. -
Who cares if the twist is predictable Shutter Island is a good movie. Hell, it's better than A Team, or effing Karate Kid.
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Nothing I said puts down the movie for having a "predictable" twist. I said the Twist is predictable but it isn't the real twist. I was just pointing out it isn't a TWIST movie - it is about WHY someone is nuts, not "Wow! He's nuts Never would have guessed!".
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I agree, Shutter Island is good, but to think everyone in that institution would go to that trouble for ONE person is a little hard to swallow.
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The specifics of Leo's situation in SHUTTER did surprise me - it was essentially backwards from what I was expecting. Which is why I think the person who comes out the best in the whole film is Michelle Williams: great performance from her. And you're right that the movie doesn't seem to be even trying to hide the "twist" most of the time - the use of the cigarette lighter is a dead giveaway. The problem is it's still a long path to not really go anywhere.
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...but I can't get upset anyone who couldn't get into it because I can understand why it left them cold. You can't set up a movie like that where people watching it our thinking it is going to be about a twist and not run the risk of some of them turning off. I didn't turn off and found it entertaining but I can see other people just as easily not invest emotionally into it because they already feel like the filmmakers are being lazy with the narrative.
That is the risk of doing a movie like that. It is like setting a film up to be like a horror movie and than not delivering - some people in the audience are just going to rightfully feel like they got cheated. It happened to me with BLADE RUNNER so I can understand. -
How the movie kinda turns around and becomes something else. I think if they turned it around at the midway point instead of at the end, it would have been great.
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Really, did the experiment work or not? Quite a few people missed it. Did anyone here catch it?Oh, I was also referring to the Norton Hulk, not the Nolte one.
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Your reference of "Who Killed the Kids" went way over my head. Please enlighten me.
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http://tinyurl.com/29xgn7r
http://tinyurl.com/2f68erc -
Don't get me wrong, it's a wonderfully crafted film with great atmospher, an amazing cast, and is probably Scorsese's best attempt at a pure genre film. But yeah, the wind went out of the sails pretty early for me. I'll have to watch it again and see if I like it better the second time. Didn't Harry say that? I am a fan of NINTH CONFIGURATION (which DID fool me way back when) and so I just couldn't believe they were playing the same exact gambit. I know it's been done in other movies too. It would be like you decided to make a murder mystery where the secret was ALL THE SUSPECTS DID IT, WORKING TOGETHER. The audience would be like, uhm, no fair, been done already. The other problem is that despite the fact that DiCaprio works his ass off as an actor and I do respect him, I still have trouble seeing him in parts like this where he is just clearly too young and boyish to have the proper world-wearyness. Think of how powerful that final reveal would have been if he was a man who had been around the block, a real cop's cop. ...Change of subject. That's interesting about BLADE RUNNER. What, did you go in expecting more of an action film? I remember when it came out it seemed very misunderstood by most critics too, who were expecting something much different.
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Just saying.
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The other Na'vi tribes--a wasted opportunity.
Sci-fi novels like Le Guins that compare alien civilizations work better when you really get into the nuts and bolts of the two worlds, rather than just a simple B&W dichotomy--ie showing how each world has its own factions, issues. I kept thinking: I'd really like to see a movie like Avatar with a third species involved, to break up the binary opposition. But focusing on another tribe would have done the same thing. For example, what if one tribe was more willing to cooperate with the humans? etc... -
SPOILER! DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN SHUTTER ISLAND.................................................................................I meant the surprise that it was his WIFE who was crazy and ended up killing the kids, and that he then felt he had to kill her. The whole time I was thinking he had killed his family and that's why he ended up in the asylum, but it was the opposite and more nuanced than that. I thought that was what you meant by the REAL twist.
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I thought you were referring to my Hulk question, no wonder I didn't know. SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!IThe twist I was talking about was the fact the treatment worked and Di Caprio didn't relapse.
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MORE SPOILERS. The experiment DID work. He had broken out of his delusion...but in the end he decided to PRETEND he hadn't, so he would get lobotomized and put out of his misery. And he would rather "die a hero" than keep remembering what really happened.
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so I'm thinking Geoff Johns and Co. will have the Green Lantern, (not yet greenlit) The Flash, and Superman movies setting up towards that. Characters like WonderWoman, Aquaman, DCU Batman, etc can be introduced in the JLA movie.The Superman origin can be a five minute prologue. I think most people know Superman's origin and dont' need another movie to re-tell it yet again.There shouldn't be any worries for a "dark" Superman. Chris Nolan will make sure that Superman believes in TRUTH, JUSTICE, AND THE AMERICAN WAY.
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We're in total agreement, sir.
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Is his great subtle sense of humor. I mean, the scene in Memento where Pierce realizes he's being chased by the guy who threatened Moss rather than vice versa cracks me up. Actually, anything with that guy in that movie haha.
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SPOILER!!!!!!Now we're on the same page. A lot of people I know didn't get the reference when Di Caprio said "I'd rather die a man than live like a monster" or something along those lines. I thought that was the real twist because it was subtle.
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Jun 14, 2010 10:46:45 PM CDT
Rebeck, I am a huge Film Noir/Hard Boiled detective fan
by continentalop
BLADE RUNNER is really only those at the cosmetic level. It has some of the noir iconography, but it really isn't a noir (or at least not as much as people think).
And the hard boiled detective allusions drove me nuts because Deckard is not much of a detective. He does one scene of real detective work ((the brilliant scene where he blows up the photo and uses that to track someone down) but the rest of the time he just happens to find someone with very little investigating.
If you are going to set it up like and get my hopes up that it will be THE MALTESE FALCON or MURDER MY SWEET 2025 and not deliver, than I am going to react negatively. The movie might be good and I can understand why others love it, but it doesn't work for me because IMO it isn't what it says it is. -
Great villain. Why not see him done right for a change (and by right, I mean not like Burton fucking did him or how he is done in comics nowadays).
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I think Robin Williams has a good shot at being Nolan's pick to play him. I think Nolan really likes and respects what Williams does in dramatic roles.
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I could barely sit through the first ten minutes. What was the plot?
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SPOILERS: The best thing is he does suffer from survivor guilt. Sure he didn't kill his kids, but he feels responsible for neglecting his wife.
Also, anyone else pick up the fact that the entire story about the liberation of the Concentration camp and the killing of the guards and commandant is all an allegory to what happened to his wife and kids? -
You make a good point - I can see that. I guess not being as versed in the genre, I thought the whole concept of detective noir in the future was just so novel and fun - and wouldn't you say Scott got the MOOD right? - but under more scrutiny, it's certainly not much a mystery. But hey, wadaya' expect? The director thinks his hero is actually an android - even though that completely ruins the entire premise of the story, as well as the fact that a man who hates androids falls in love with one. Idiot. No wonder Ford never wanted to work with him again.
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That's why I actually prefer the narrated version, because it is SO archetypal private eye story.
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I don't know, I actually like the fact that he's an android in the film--or rather that it's implied. Makes the ending have a lot more impact for me compared to the narrated version.
I'm teaching 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" and showing the Director's Cut of Blade Runner in the fall, and I'm really interested to see which version of Deckard students prefer. -
Oh, i bet they won't give a shit.
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Please give us your take ?
Describe him, what motivates him and how would he fit into a Nolan type storyline ? -
I'm not the first to note this, but the colors and some of the scenes from the trailers really remind me of Gattacca. Anyone else?
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On the ending...what would be so special about one android running off with another one? Why does that have any meaning to it? But a man hired to kill "skin jobs", falling in love and running off with one - isn't that a more satisfying story arc?
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Because it explains perhaps why Batty saves him. It also has something to do with the mysterious missing replicant (if I remember my math right, there's one extra that's unaccounted for). Also, I like the idea of someone hunting their own kind without realizing it and then finding out the truth--adds a certain sadness to the story. It's also that twist where the police officer/bounty hunter becomes the one hunted (Minority Report, The Fugitive, etc...) and questions his identity. Though if Deckard is human he still has to question what that means too.
Oh, and I also love the addition of unicorn dream and the ominous warnings of Gaff: the origami and "It's too bad she won't live, but then again who does?" that takes on a new level of menace. -
Late reply, but yes I did see it and that was one damned fine film.And to address the misunderstanding re: Nolan/3DYes, I know he was addressing the techniques, but I still came away feeling like he was jumping on a 3d hater bandwagon. Could be wrong, but that was my impression. And regarding the quality of his films, I have found them ALL to be outstanding. So if anyone came away with the impression that I was dissing his work because I criticized him, you are most likely functionally retarded. I just find this 3d backlash to be shortsighted and selfish. What the explosion of 3d will bring to other fields of technology and home presentation far outweigh the threat to your frequently raped childhoods and fragile sensibilities.
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Is that the real payoff of 3D will be sports. I live in a college town, and he said eventually his theater would be showing our football games live in the theater in 3D. He said that watching sports in 3D will be as big a revolution as watching sports in HD was--once the technology improves.
But he agreed with me that most 3D films are a waste of consumer's money (something Nolan didn't touch on hahaha) because the 3D is added in post-production, and this practice often leads to headache producing experiences like Clash of the Titans. The way Cameron did 3D is the right way to do it, but these kind of triumphs will be few and far between until people get their act together. -
MR. MURDOCH reasonably asserts: "The problem with Nolan talking about an "emotional connection" he has to make when he conceives his films is...there aren't that many in his produced movies. I think his aesthetic is rather cold, akin to Hitchcock."
What in fact makes Nolan the best co-writer / director on the planet is that he presents characters that are enormously challenging to make an emotional connection to, but once you cross the barriers he has set up, the payoff is enormous. I'm thinking particularly of Leonard, who becomes more and more sympathetic with every viewing of MEMENTO, and (spoiler here) especially the utterly honorable "good twin" in THE PRESTIGE, whose very existence isn't clear until you've seen the film twice (and whose exact role may require three or four viewings to nail down). -
I always thought he would have made a MUCH BETTER Bruce Wayne/Batman. Never knew he actually screen tested for it, thats awesome
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The fascinating thing about Leonard to me is the decision he makes at the end of the movie to write what he does on Teddy's photo. He doesn't kill him right then and there because he can't. He's not a killer, as Teddy says, that's why he's so good at it. He doesn't kill the person Moss sends him after either. But he would kill for his wife. So he sets things up in advance--but note that he doesn't just write--this is the killer! He writes "don't trust his lies"--quite true! And then things unravel from there. What I find interesting is how everyone thinks they're using Leonard in the movie, but really he's using them despite himself. The question of who's really in control in that movie is mindblowing, especially when one considers that Moss probably doesn't realize Teddy killed her bf.
Speaking of which, Moss's character is really unlikeable at first, but there is something there still... -
Leonard is an example of what Nolan is great at: the moral ambiguity of his characters and their choices. It's what I was trying to get at in my discussion of character when I first started posting, but you put it better than I did. Again, the decisions Alfred, Gordon, Wayne make in TDK are not easy or nondebatable. I think this was what Nolan was getting at in discussing his approach to story--seeing how it affects the characters, so you see how they develop based on what they've been plunged into.
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That thing is so fucked.
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You didn't read everything i read about the movie, did you? You just read what INTERESTED you, not what i actually wrote. because if you had, you would notice that i not only know but acknowledge that CASABLANCA is a great movie and a classic. I know that. I respect the movie for the true classic it is. It is a great movie. It just doesn't connect with me much. But the thing is, unlike many of the subjective brigade, just because i have no personal investment in CASABLANCA doesn't prevent me from knowing what a great movie and a classic it is. Which means, that doesn't make me arrogant at all,quite the contray, it actually makes me humble about cinema. For me, about movies and appreciating them there's more then just my fancies of the moment. You get it now, boy?
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You nede to voice over to udnerstand what's going on? What's the matter, watchign too many Michael Bay moviesor something delluted your capacity to understand the plot as it goes along? Or are you one of those that hate to think about a movie and trying to figure out the story as soon the end credits show up? Really, what's your deal?
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The reason, i think, why the institution went to such trouble for one single pacient in SHUTTER ISLAND is because it was on the ballance two different ways to view pacient treatment in cases of extreme mental cases: what is the best option, the humane treatment, or the more direct but brutish cirurgical treatment? And in the end, thanks to the maincharacter's "relapse", one can see that the propornets of the lobotomy/cirurgical approach won. It actually reflects two important branches of psyquiatry of the time. And in truth, for a while the cirurgical branch was winnning, and lobotomies were in fashion. It took until the 70s to understand the error and the problem that lobotomy was causing the pacients, and which was not a really cure at all. This perspective makes, for me, the movie even more tragic.
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Insomnia was an amazing film. but a billion times better than Silence Of The Lambs? i think not.....
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Good point, but you gotta wonder what the other patients thought when this one patient got special treatment. I realize the woman in the cave was probably a nurse, but what about all those people in the Civil War part of the prison?
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Wel,, i think that DeCaprio's character was one of those that were in the civil War part of the asylum. Just maybe DeCaprio was picked because he was their star pacient. The other,s frankly, looked like they were beyond possible terapethic help. Also, i wonder, the other Civil War ward pacients might view DeCaprio as a hope for their own cure. So, i wouldn't be suprised if they see in DeCaprio a sort of hope for their condition.
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No, of course INSOMINIA is not a billion time better then THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS. That's just the typical AICN's overboasting hyperbole. They just can't help it, they are addicted to it.
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The woman in the cave was a hallucination by Leo. She is the "missing woman" and she tells him everything he wants to hear to continue with his delusions - she tells him not to trust anyone and how they will try and frame him to make him seem insane and even have himself doubt his own sanity.
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... because in USA a billion is a thousand millions, but in Europe, where i live, a billion is A MILLION MILLIONS! So, imagine how even more exagerated it is the hyperbole above.
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The 3D was awesome, though.But at home when I watch the Blu-ray, I don't miss a thing.
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I'm so fucking jealous...... :-(
God, I love BLADE RUNNER. Best. Movie. Ever. -
Jun 15, 2010 4:44:36 AM CDT
"Superman needs to be done like Coen's Hudsucker Proxy" Wait wha
by thajackal
"Same cast, same setting, everything." So your saying Tim Robbins for Superman/Clark?
Now Superman Returns is looking like not such a bad movie afterall compared to that idea... And singerman Returns was craptastic! -
I agree with Nolan…Robin William’s work on Insomnia was just…well…INSANE!!! I thought that it was nearly perfection…but to shock & awe ya’z all…I thought that Pacino was just as fantastic. I truly believe that “Young Pacino” is one of the great actors of our spanning generations…he’s a bit over the top now in his late years…but he’s still got it. The thing is…Insomnia as a whole…William’s & Pacino’s, & Hillary’s performances…sorry folks…that had a hell of a lot to do with Christopher Nolan. Time is gonna prove Nolan to be one of the greats of our time. I hate to keep using those “timely” analogies, but when you love film as much as I do over the decades…well…you just own up to kicking 40’s heels with your toes. Heh heh heh.
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First off, I am not suggesting my idea is better than anything the Nolans could come up with, just that I am showing HOW you could use the Penguin to prove that he works as a viable villain.
Secondly, I am going to apologize because I think this is going to be a long post. In fact, I am pretty sure it will be. But it isn't easy to explain why you think something will work in just one or two sentences.
I would simply do what Nolan did with the Joker - go back to his first, Golden Age appearances and base him on that. And like TDK which is heavily based plot wise on the Joker's first appearances in Batman #1, I would use the Penguin's first appearance in Detective Comics #58. I would also follow these steps:
1) I would remember he is the anti-Joker. The Joker represents anarchy, chaos and nihilism; the Penguin represents professionalism, order, and the corrupting influence of civilization. The Joker is loud and attention seeking, the Penguin works in the shadows and behind the scenes. The Joker kills people to spread his ideological message; the Penguin kills people when necessary and says it is “just business.” Joker wants everyone to know him and fear him as an engine of chaos - the Penguin doesn’t want people to fear him because he wants to be underestimated and ignored.
That by the way is the point of the Penguin in the Golden Age. He isn’t in it for glory or infamy, but power & wealth and be able to stay rich & power. His only vanity is that he wants to be the number one criminal in Gotham and he can only do that if he does not draw attention to himself. He acts as a grey eminence of the criminal underworld, much like Prof. Moriarty did for Holmes. The fact that he is underestimated and laughed at is actually his strength - who would suspect this funny looking man is the cities most dangerous and powerful criminal, or that he could kill you without even dropping his silly smile.
In the Golden Age he once was describes as “The funny looking man with the evil brain.” That is exactly what he is. And because he is funny looking, no one ever suspects him.
2) The Joker represented terrorism and the insurgents in Iraq, I would have the Penguin represent the politicians and big businessmen who helped get us into this financial mess but are not footing the bill. The Penguin represents the kind of men behind the curtain who make all the big decisions that affects our lives that we don’t know about. Guys who look and act classy and use big words but is really just another crook - think Hans Gruber, the “exceptional” thief. He is like the gangster characters of the 50s who acted as surrogates for big corporations or how the Corleones stood in for the Kennedy family and politicians.
3) Get rid of practically everything about the Penguin that popped up post 1980 (after his stupid origin was finally revealed). The Penguin doesn’t have an origin, he is like the Joker - he just “is”. He doesn’t need a Freudian explanation for his appearance or his fetish for umbrellas. Did we ever get a real explanation for why Goldfinger liked gold besides he liked the way it looked and felt, or why Oddjob used a razor tipped bowler, or where Jaws got his braces? Or how about why Anton Chigurh uses a cattle gun? Nope, they just do and that is the same explanation why the Penguin uses an umbrella and dresses nice. He just does.
4) The Penguin’s name isn’t Oswald Cobblepot. That is a late edition to the character (I believe introduced in 1980) and a ridiculous name to saddle someone with. In his first appearance he is called Mr. Boniface, but that could have been just an alias. I would have the cops and Batman have trouble finding his real name - he seems to have a lot of alias and little records telling them who he is (for modern fans I would throw them a bone and say one of his aliases is Oswald Cobblepot).
5) The Penguin is not a freak or a birdman or any of that shit. He is simply a short, funny looking man who dresses nice. He is called the Penguin because it is a mob-type nickname (Murray “The Camel” Humphreys, Tony “The Ant” Spilotro, Vincent, Paulie “Walnuts”, etc) and because I would have him walk with a slight waddle, like this guy did:
http://tinyurl.com/27266aj
The proof that the Penguin was not originally viewed as weird looking is that during the Golden Age he used to be seen walking down the street without raising suspicion or even attention from the cops (the only thing people would notice is how “funny he looks” but nothing too out of the ordinary).
6) That is also why the Penguin uses an umbrella. It is a stylish walking stick, just like how some guys use putters for walking sticks. And the Umbrella is also a metaphor for his character: it is an apparently harmless and innocuous object that actually conceals a weapon.
As for the weapons it holds, fwhen he first appeared no one knew he carried an armed umbrella, hence why it was a very effective concealed weapon. And even when Batman figured it out, he never knew WHAT weapon he had in there.
Secondly, I wouldn’t use flame throwers and buzz saws and helicopters. When he originally appeared he had much more realistic weapons. I would limit it to one weapon inside a Umbrella at a time and have things that exist in the real world like this:
http://tinyurl.com/6g5gxy
http://tinyurl.com/25ss777
http://tinyurl.com/2vqsb4e
7) Yes, he would wear a tux but not all the time (maybe one or two scenes, kind of like how Sherlock Holmes in the old movies would wear his iconic Deerstalker cap and coat once or twice in a movie).
When the Penguin first appeared he did wear a tux and a top hat but that is what a well dressed gentleman would wear back then when they went out (not all the time, but comics are a visual medium so it helped sell that idea to kids). Well, for a more realistic version of the Penguin I would have him wear what a classy gentleman would wear nowadays: custom tailored suits, Italian shoes, Seville Row shirts, Rolex watches, Burberry coats and maybe a bowler. He is always slightly overdressed but always dressed impeccably and immaculately groomed. Only at formal events would he wear his tux (but he does love breaking it out).
8) Remember the Penguin’s comical appearance is his best disguise. Like Bruce Wayne who negates suspicion that he is Batman by intentionally drawing attention to himself as a boorish, spoiled rich kid, the Penguin negates any suspicion by intentionally appear foppish and funny looking. He overacts the part of a gentleman and the classy guy because he knows that will make it harder for people to suspect he is a master criminal. Think Vincent “the chin” Gigante who use to wear a bathrobe and pretend he was senile/nuts so the cops wouldn’t think he was still in charge of his family.
The one big difference between the Penguin and Bruce/Wayne Batman is that he doesn’t ever let his mask slip or take it off. The Penguin is always in character, even to other criminals, because he wants everyone to underestimate him. In the comics a mob boss thought he was a pushover until the Penguin shot him with his umbrella.
9) Yes, he is not physically tough, but who cares? Scarcrow and Joker were hardly physical challenges to Batman, they instead challenged his mind, his resolve and his moral convictions. Same thing with the Penguin - he is a master criminal. He has an army of thugs to do his fighting, and if people want to see Batman face a real tough challenge who isn’t to say that a plotter like the Penguin wouldn’t get muscle like a big bruiser with severe ichthyosis or a hired gun who is a deadshot with a pistol?
10) You notice I keep bringing up being underestimated, well once again that is the entire point of the Penguin. He was meant to not look like a criminal or bad guy - in fact he is supposed to look like the opposite of one. But he is thoroughly evil and sinister.
In the Golden Age, the Penguin murders a man by exposing him to Psittacosis. The man’s death is declared a natural cause and no one, not even the cops or Batman, suspect he was murdered and never find out (making Penguin the only GA villain to actually get away with murder). That is what is scary about the Penguin - he will kill people and no one will know so he doesn’t have to fear punishment. He is a man that Batman was made to fight - a criminal the cops are not even looking at.
The Penguin is also without a doubt a genius and a cunning foe. In the Golden Age, he managed to escape from Batman in his first appearance, and then proceeded to legitimately get away from Batman FOUR MORE TIMES IN A ROW (and he would have kept doing that if DC’s editors hadn’t made an edict that criminals must get caught and can no longer kill).
And finally, I also bring up a lot that he is the anti-Joker. Well, that is a good thing. Anyone who even shares a slight similarity with the Joker is going to most likely be badly compared to Heath’s award winning performance. Better to go with a villain who shares no similarities with the Joker.
Also, Batman is on the run in the next film. Any obvious villain who pops up will instantly make the cops want to work with Batman. Riddler sends riddles the cops can’t solve? Well, guess we can overlook Batman’s crimes because he is our only hope. Some bruiser name Bane or Killer Croc just showed up? Shit, they look way worse than Batman. Black Mask, a scary looking guy in a skull mask, is reorganizing the criminal world? I prefer a vigilante Batman to him.
But the Penguin, a criminal who stays out of the lime light and no one suspects of being a criminal? He is the perfect villain for Batman in the next film.
In the Penguin’s first appearance Batman goes undercover and learns that someone called the Penguin is running things (the first time he ever heard the guys name after running the underworld for a while). The Penguin, the genius that he is, realizes Batman is on to him so he frames Batman for a crime so the cops will hunt him down and keep him occupied until the Penguin’s men can get the drop on him. He played both sides against the middle.
That is what I would have Penguin do in the next movie - force Gordon through his political connects (and maybe a little blackmail, ala what Leob tried to do in Year One) to actively hunt down Batman. Batman now has to deal with the cops (or continue to deal with them, as the case may be) while trying to stop a criminal that no one knows exist or believe is a criminal.
And for me that is a great continuation of the themes set up by Nolan. The first one fear, the second one was escalation. The third one is simply commitment - can Batman stay committed to a cause when no one supports him or even believes him and they look at him as the criminal? Plus, can he stay committed and dedicated when can’t even arrest or stop his foes? Is he just battling windmills but not doing any real good and will he lose his faith in Gotham and his resolve.
I would obviously have other dilemmas in the movie, especially of a personal nature, but that sums up what I believe the Penguin brings to the series. Sorry once again about the length. I don’t have time to edit this done so I just rambled on. -
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.... you are clearly passionate abt this subject and I commend you for it. some interesting ideas there. whatever you do for a living, it's wasted, you should become an ideas guy for movie productions, you never see ideas guy in the credits do you, but it's basically "story by" ....
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But normally I don't have so much free time. My GF is sick and coughing up a lung and there is no way I can fall asleep with her around.
This is the moment I wish I was single again - which was only three weeks ago.
As for what I do for a living - I'm a film editor. -
and i hope your gf doesn't read your post ;) what kinda films have you worked on, any that I might know?
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I do a lot of Online work now, but still cut some infomercials and TV spots here and there. I did edit some independent movies and I did some work on Black Dynamite, which might be my proudest moment. I mostly did the Online editing for that, but I did do some of the recuts on it. The editor was a cool guy and he let me go wild and change a lot of his stuff because I have more experience than him.
I also used to edit and write on soft core flicks in the late 90s. Ugh. -
I have come to the conclusion there is worse things than being single and not getting laid every night.
She isn't bad but I just realized I don't really like her. -
"She isn't bad but I just realized I don't really like her" .... hmmm usually a sure fire sign that the relationship has had its day. soft core flicks of the late 90's, i've probably seen some of your work then. i've not heard of black dynamite but bravo anyway. i'm a bum so to meet soemone who works in film editing is abt as close to meeting royalty as i will ever get. whats your fav movie, if you have one?
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I didn't change a lot of Adrian Younge's stuff. I only touched about six scenes, but he was cool in letting me completely change stuff that wasn't working.
I don't want to make it sound like I did his job. He edited it - I only did some additional editing. -
But I sometimes felt like I was closer to Hollywood when I worked at Hollywood video. It is pretty much just a job - it is like a hot dog vendor at Yankee Stadium - he doesn't know A-Rod and is easily replaceable.
As for favorite movie, that is hard. But I will say it is probably Taxi Driver and GoodFellas that got me into the film business. -
and absolutely brilliant, always impressed with what you have to say, but that is on a new levelIts a pity Nolan doesn't read the internet because we have a ready replacement for Goyer here, except cheaper and more thoughtful
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But I hear you. Whenever I think of hot dog stands I think of Sleepers. Goodfellas is my no 2 movie of all time. This is probably not a popular choice bcos it leans more towards sentamental territory but The Shawshank Redemption is my no 1, from the first time i saw it i knew i had just watched the best film i'd ever seen.
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I figured out why your lower opinion of THE DARK KNIGTH cames from,and why you refuse to acknowledge it for the masterpiece that it is. and the reason, it seems to me, is simple: The movie doesn't match up to the exact specifications of what you think a Batman movie should be. You have a very close idea of how a Batman movie should be like, and for you, TDK does not correspond. And as such, you put it down as a lesser movie then it actually is, a cinematic masterpiece. I understand you know. I think it's maybe a bit like me and the Moby Dick movies mad eso far, none of them, even the pretty good John Houston movie, matches what i would want a Moby Dick movie to be like, as i envision as a fan of the book. None has come close. I understand you know. I don't agree with you about TDK, naturally, but i understand where you came from.
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THAT'S how you talkback, bitches!Good post.
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I used to liek Hot dogs, but i got so fed up with them that i avoid them nowdays. And i don't miss eating them. Same with dumb crass stupid blockbusters. I used to be far more acepting of them, but now, i bash them with complete abandon and never once i miss liking them. I don't miss kiing them, i don't need to liek them, any good movie provides me more then then 100 dumb blockbusters put together. I never lose in not appreciating and enjoying a crap dumb blockbuster, because there's always some good movie outhere that will satisfy me good.
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... who likes beverly hills cop 3 hmmmm?? does anyone have anything good to say about Jaws 4:The revenge??
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Your work on Emmanuel in Space was awesome, don't run it down.
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Jun 15, 2010 7:13:10 AM CDT
Asimov I agree wholeheartedly abt dumb ass lame ass blockbusters
by jackgraham
when i was a kid, say between the ages of 8 to 18 i would have been first in line for movies like GI Joe, Transformers, The Mummy:Tomb of the dragon emperor, erm The mummy returns and so on but now being 30 and having matured somewhat i hope I havnt seen any of those films bcos the trailer says it all really and these special effects bonanzas hold no interest to me anymore either. but im guessing they appeal to kids in the age ctegory i mentioned earlier which is why i love Nolans work, he caters for my tastes. Ive just rented his first flick Following, havnt seen it yet, anyone seen it, is it good? its only 69 minutes long apparently.
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I think it's a good idea that Nolan doesn't read the internet about his movies, and xpecially AICN about Batman. It means that he can do his own thing, in his own style, and not be distracted by others. Filmmakers should do that, specially those who are truly creative. They should do their own thing, and let the results speak for themselves. Of course, filmamkers should be aware of the importance of the mvoies they are making, specially it's about such a belived character as Batman.But there is a line about beign aware of the fans and be respectful to the character and it's history, and in kissing the audiences ass in an atempt to create a minimum common denominator movie for the sake of a quick buck. Bay and JJ abrams did the later case with their respective franchises they are their filmmakers, they made populist pap that is more based on trying to second-guess audiences wants, comité group thinking and pool research. What nolan does is somethign beter, he has a vision for the character, he has a vision for how the movies should be like, but he still goes for the respect for the character as generally perceived and is aware of his history. He still does his own thing, in his own style, but he's respectful. I think nolan's approach is the best. And so far it has worked brillantly both times.I think that if a filmmaker actually constantly read this AICN talkbacks and actually took to heart the stuff we said, the end result movie would be a complete mess without a style and a personality of it's own. It would be as bad as a movie made by only following the cards from screen tests. It's a bad deal.
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Well said. And what's your thoughts on Jaws 4?
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the amount of posts on this Nolan interview is incredible, it took me 126 minutes to scroll down to the last post, which was probably mine. what can i say i'm bored and love talking film. a bit like that police investigator fella from the exorcist. Nolan really ooks like a cross over between harry enfield and leo dicaprio. has anyone seen The karate kid redo yet. any good. is the end tournoment as goosebumpingy as the original. does he use the crane. does will smith cameo as a referee?
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Jun 15, 2010 8:53:24 AM CDT
I destroyed an entire universe in 126 minutes once
by richard_gere_raped_my_gerbil
It's amazing what you can do with 126 minutes. If its any consolation, it was a universe in which Uwe Boll had just won his third oscar. That universe won't be missed.
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For a movie made with the budget of a school lunch, FOLLOWING is quite an achievement. Regardles sof tha,t it's quit a pretty good movie and agreat start. You can see in it many of the tropes we now associate with Nolan, like non-linear narrative, manipulation of expectations and a manipulative villain who outwits everybody. The villain in the movie is, in many ways, a real precussor to the way the Nolans portaited The Joker in TDK. FOLLOWING really is NOLAN BEGINS.The movie has this one detail that in hindsight can be seen as a sort of injoke: when the characters go to a apartment, there's a batman logo on the front door.
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I never saw it through and through. But from what i saw, and remembering something that happened 20 years ago, i really didn't liked it.
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126 munites was all it took for Jar Jar Abrams to completly fuck up Star Trek and ruin 30 years of Gene Rondenberry's hard work and his whole legacy. So yeah, a lot can be achieved in 126 minutes.
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That is one hell of a coincedence. I'm a member of lovefilm.com, a U.K based dvd rental site and ive put Following on my list of must haves. In the meantime i've just checked what dvds they have sent me this this week ... I've got Drugstore Cowboy, which i've never seen, and 44 inch chest, a Ray Winstone film from the writer of Sexy Beast. Drugstore Cowboy has 100% on Rotten Tomats, but it also says review unavailable on almost every box. I watched My own private idaho a few weeks back for the 1st time and i got to say I wasnt a fan. I found it incredibly boring, which was dissapointing because I liked River Phoenix. Gus Van Sant made a film with Casey Affleck and Matt Damon years ago abt these two guys walking and one getting stuck on a large rock. that was also incredibly boring. But i really like To Die for so Van Sant you are forgiven. But not for Psycho 98.
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DRUGSTORE COWBOY is really good. It has William Burroughs in a cameo, playing an old time drug addict. Good stuff.The movie you mention above, the wandering movie with Affleck and Damon, is called GERRY. You could call GERRY boring. i call it mesmerizing. i love the way the movie is it's own beast. I love that the movie is it's own thing and damn the torpedoes and anybody who doesn't go with it. I love that kind of attitude, that kind of daring. Thew movie works as an antidote to the typical Hollywood bullshit. Movies like GERRY are needed for exactly that reason, as antidotes. I could dismiss GERRY if not for the fact that0's quite clear that the director and the actors and everybody involved in the movie really believed what they were doing. movies like GERRY only exists out of love for the craft and art of cinema, make no mistake about that. And i can't help be contagiated by that. GERRY is pure cinema. Cinema for it's own sake, you might say, and very righty so, but let me tell you this: today's mainstream is filled with stuff that 20, 30 years ago were the province of art-house, and today are common. And as a work of the vision of a filmmaker, i cna't help but admire GERRY, and it's irresolute way to do it's own thing. I can admire a movie like GERRY.
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Ok maybe not but Asimov you put up a good argument and I agree with some of your points. I have only seen Gerry once when it was first released and my opinion of it is based on that one viewing but I just recall how plodding it was and how bored i felt watching it. perhaps a 2nd viewing is in order and my opinion re evaluated. i'm all for cinema to be experimental, to be an antidote to the usual hollywood bore busters but I find alot of Van Sants films to be boring. Gerry, Elephant and Last Days were all in style i'm reffering to. I admire the fact that they are different, I don't admire the fact that they didn't keep me engrossed. On the other hand, Vincent Gallos Buffallo 66 was an antidote, something different and I loved that.
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Ok maybe not but Asimov you put up a good argument and I agree with some of your points. I have only seen Gerry once when it was first released and my opinion of it is based on that one viewing but I just recall how plodding it was and how bored i felt watching it. perhaps a 2nd viewing is in order and my opinion re evaluated. i'm all for cinema to be experimental, to be an antidote to the usual hollywood bore busters but I find alot of Van Sants films to be boring. Gerry, Elephant and Last Days were all in style i'm reffering to. I admire the fact that they are different, I don't admire the fact that they didn't keep me engrossed. On the other hand, Vincent Gallos Buffallo 66 was an antidote, something different and I loved that.
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Your long post on the Penguin is okay for a comic book, but there was nothing in it that made me feel it could exist in Nolan's world. There isn't a shred of a story that comes from TDK that would continue into Batman 3. Or does Nolan just go with the whole "There's a new villain in town," plot? That's what Nolan doesn't want to do. If you give a reason why The Penguin would show up and how he relates to the previous film/s, serve it up. But just saying the Penguin is the opposite of the Joker isn't a valid entrance point for his character. The whole reason Nolan's movies work is they all connect. True Joker showed up, but they did it once and it was justified nicely, can they just have another bad guy show up without it getting repetitive? I'm not saying your Penguin ideas aren't good, but not one of them made me think to myself "Yeah, I could see that." Besides, a short funny looking mob boss sounds boring to me. If I were a betting man, my best bets would be The Riddler or numerous other villains who are actually a member of the League of Shadows who have observed Batman and the Joker's use of theatricality as effective weapon, thereby justifying having another wacko with a funny name. Black Mask sparks the most Nolanesque bad guy look to me. Oh well, I guess we'll find out. Sooner rather than later I hope. Nice post though.
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... is that Batman doesn't waste his time with the riffraff. He's not catching purse-snatchers and jaywalkers, like Batman in the previous incarnations mostly were. Specially when they were forst presented, including Tim Burton's Batman.In Nolan's Batman, right from the start is misison is to go for the big fish, for the people who are responsible for the evils of Gotham, for the crime lords. Batman never wastes his time with the small fry, unless they are henchemen on his way to get the big boss.This goes even futher in TDK, to the point that when The Joker first appears, Batman just treats him as a bank robber and barely bothers with him, because he's devoted and focused on catching the big crime bosses. They are who he wants to bring down, they are his mission, all he does for the first half of the movie is just for that porpose. It's only when The Joker becames an immediate bigger problem that Batman goes after him, when The Joker becames a big picture problem.Another interesting thing is that The Joker is the only character so far that made Batman get reactive, instead of his usual active character in Nolan's movies. Batman becames active again when he goes on the trail of The joker and stops playing his games by the Joker's rules, when Batman imposes some rules of his own into the game.Man, i have no small amount of awe for TDK!
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who doesnt want drive thru!!!
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his relationship issues. Mr Talop, when did you first start feeling that you didnt like your coughing partner? Is she aware of the disdain you feel for her? 1 hr starts now!!
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It's gratifying to know that i might have helped you get a new apprrication for... well, anything. Glad to be of help, mate.yesterday is saw for the first time this movie called VALHALLA RISING. And this is anothe rof those movies that it is it's own thing, and screw those who can't connect. Really, the mvie is it's own beast. And visually, is just amazing. One of the best cinematogrpahy i have seen in movies recently. The movie is it's own thing. i know many will clal it "art-house", but i rathe rclal it off-beat. Most art-house movies are too devoted to Gay Cowboys Eating Pudding. But that is not what happens in VALHALLA RISING. There's nothing gay pr effette about it. In fact, the movie has the most bad-ass one-eyed ass-kicker since Snake Plissken. The closest comparison i can find is with Werner Herzog's AGUIRRE: THE WRATH OF GOD. I'm just in awe of VALHALLA RISING. It's not a movie for everybody, but you want to see something more off-beat, stylish but brutal, uncompromising, hypnotic, and want to take a break from the typical blockbuster bullshit, that's the movie to go. It's about Vikings, the main character is a brutal Viking badass anti-hero, and they go form Scotland to America. And it was shot in the most savage areas of Scotland's highlands. VALHALLA RISING is now my new movie drug until INCEPTION arrives.
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Valhalla Rising is allready on my LoveFilm.Com wish list and eagerly awaiting its arrival. i wanted it bcos i heard it was brutal and I like brutal. empire mag also gave it 4 stars and the quotes on the dvd cover impressed me as they usually do. i'm a tad concered it may be too off beat for my tastes, i know it's from the director of Bronson which despite a terrific performance from Tom Hardy, I wasnt a fan of. I live near the Scottish Highlands,and i can assure you they havnt been very savage in a long long time, unless you fear snow sheep and highland cows.
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You are scotish? Cool! Amy Pond and all that.By savage i meant to say the most wilderness zones of the highlands. The movie uses it to very good effect, to represent both the 1000 AD scotland and The North America the Vikings ends up on. However, don't be fooled by the DVD cover, because it lies. there's no armies in the movie, unless a bunch of 6-to-10 people can be considered an army!The movie might not be your thing, but i ask you to have an open mind about it. If the movie strieks a chord with you, which it did to me, when you will be awed by it and you will really love it. Like i do.By the way, i'm portuguese. And i'd love to visit Scotland, it's one place i'd like to visit. Eating haggis, however, maybe not. Your cousine is not exactly praised, if you know what i mean. And thank you and the irish for inventing and developing whiskey. Good job, guys.
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the more I like and respect him. He really reminds me of the old school film directors from the 70's like Scorcese, DePalma, Coppola, Spielberg, etc.
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Jun 15, 2010 1:16:33 PM CDT
Hey Kobe tell me how my ass tastes!
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
Lets go Celtics!
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"True Joker showed up, but they did it once and it was justified nicely, can they just have another bad guy show up without it getting repetitive?"
Of course they can, and the appearance of The Penguin ties in nicely with the ending of TDK...with Batman a fugitive and The Joker and Two-Face having wiped out most of Gotham's underworld, a newcomer steps in to fill the vacuum. And as Continentalop said, it wouldn't be repetitive, because he's nearly The Joker's opposite.
Oh, and one more "Nolan-esque" character twist...he's called "The Penguin" because he made his illicit fortune fencing blood diamonds. Diamonds = "Ice" = Penguin, get it? -
Who's Amy Pond. Yeah i'm Scottish, live abt 50 miles east of Loch Ness, and as far as i know the monster never existed, and i try to feel the same way about the Ted Danson movie too. Not a fan of haggis, because i know whats put in it!!! our cuisine is the least of Scotlands problems, the weather sucks, the women often don't shave down there and there's too many fields with nothing going on in them apart from cows attempting to hump one another. seriously though, i've lived here too long and i'm craving change so by all means you can move into my apartment and live here for as long as you want, just give me the keys to ur apartment and dont expect them back. Whisky aint bad tho!!! prefer tequila myself. I will go into Valhalla rising with an open mind as always. keep an eye out for Centurion, the Neil Marshall directed action flick filmed in the highland mountains and moors and from what ive heard very brutal and exciting in the more traditional sense. saw ur nation play the ivory coast today at the football world cup in south africa, a goal less draw. scotland on the other never even qualified cos frankly they suck. if only farming was a world cup, we'd win hands down.
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Gonna troll, do it RIGHT.
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Thanks for enjoying it, especially since I know you disagree with it and are not a Penguin fan.
I see your points but I still disagree. As BurnHollywood said, he is filling a vacuum left by Joker's destruction of the mob. All you need to justify his existence is have Alfred paraphrase Nietzsche, "Out of comes chaos comes order. Just ask the Germans in 1933."
Secondly, who says he has to come completely out of nowhere? The Penguin is known and respected by older, big time gangsters - maybe they haven't met him but they have heard people mention him. Have the Penguin be from a past era, before there was a Batman. He was a major shadowy criminal in the Gotham underworld until he had a falling out with Falcone and decided to leave Gotham, but he represents the old ways and that is why Gotham's underworld is so eager to back him up. That way it does tie in with first movie - with Falcone (just don't do a SM 3 and reveal that the Penguin was the one who REALLY ordered Thomas and Martha Wayne killed his parents). It also explains why he wants to rule Gotham - it is his dynasty and something he has longed for years. He was planning on taking Falcone and Maroni down himself but Batman spared him the trouble (remember TDK takes place only 6 months after BB so the next one can be just 6 months - year later.
I personally could see it working because he is simple and far from outlandish. And I also don't think their is anywhere to go with the League of Shadow members (and Talia has not been hinted at so she would be an even bigger out of nowhere character for the masses). As for Riddler, I love him but I do think people are going to unfairly compare him to the Joker and as old talk show say "you don't follow a music act with a music act, or a comedian with a comedian. You follow a music act with a comedian or an animal act."
But like you said, we are not really making the choices here. -
I just don't think it is a masterpiece. I'll put that up against Godfather, Psycho, Breathless, Searchers or the Bicycle Thief in a Pepsi challenge any day of the week.
Plus, I think it is a good movie, just not perfect. Why is that such a bad thing? -
Jun 15, 2010 2:08:01 PM CDT
Why would Nolan Pull a Burton and have Pengy and Cat shiksa?
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
He wouldn't. Pengy - maybe. Catbabe - with Riddler, maybe. Pengy and the Cat shiksa? Don't think so.
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I miss Lost.Win one for the Reaper.
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Because they were used so badly in Batman Returns. Have Nolan fix the damage Burton wrought, especially on the Penguin (fucking flipper hands, wtf?).
And Nolan already made people forget about Tim Burton's Batman and Jack Nicholson's the Joker - you think that having two villains already used by Burton in the same movie is going to really intimidate him?
He probably won't use them but I could see him easily doing it as well. Those two are Batman's next two most important villains and play a huge part of the Batman mythos and his life. -
Jun 15, 2010 2:24:05 PM CDT
Plus whp says she has to be called Catwoman in her first appeara
by continentalop
Catwoman was originally just the Cat, then became The Cat-Woman and finally Catwoman. It was a character that evolved over time, and strangely enough that evolution works great in Nolan's Batman universe. She could have just been a master burglar/thief nicknamed the Cat original, has a run in with Batman, wears a slightly more outlandish costume (the Nolan theory of escalation) to be this creature called "The Cat-Woman in the papers") and then finally goes full out and makes a sleek hi-tech costume and gets gadgets to become Catwoman.
The subplot could basically be "Catwoman Begins", the realistic transformation of a female cat burglar into a Robin Hood-esque archcriminal. -
Jun 15, 2010 2:26:30 PM CDT
The Dark Knight is good but no masterpiece
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
The idea that it is equal to 2001, The Seven Samurai, or The Godfather, is patently absurd. It is an intelligent popcorn movie but it is not an unimpeachable work of art. And the over-zealous idea that it is, brooking no argument, actually does the movie a disservice. I think even Nolan would blanche at these claims.
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Nolan could probably pull it off. Since this is his grand finale he is gonna want to go out in style! That fish Pengy ate in Burtons Batman looked like peanut butter shmear.
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I would also say that it diminishes his work on Memento, which I think is the film that you could make the best argument about being a masterpiece.
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Jun 15, 2010 2:50:12 PM CDT
Anyway, someone's gotta fix that Gawdawful Devito Penguin...
by burnhollywood
Might as well be Nolan.
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Sorry bout that fellas.....anyways like I was saying....I am leaning towards TDK NOT being a masterpiece. A classic? Yes, but not a masterpiece. IMO, a masterpiece is basically a flawless piece of film making. TDK is brilliant, but it is not flawless, thus making it not quite a masterpiece. Those who claim it to be a masterpiece are either blind to its flaws or have the belief that a masterpiece can have flaws. But to that I ask, how is it a masterpiece if it is flawed?
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The Catwoman arguments don't make ANY sense at all. I keep reading these posts where people say "Catwoman could start out as a woman who robs houses, then she runs into Batman and then becomes Catwoman." No one is stopping and actually thinking about that. If Nolan goes from Rhas Al Ghul wanting to DESTROY the city to Joker who wants to PLUNGE GOTHAM INTO ANARCHY to a character like Catwoman who ROBS HOUSES. Come on, I'd rather not see a third film. I have heard decent Penguin ideas, my favorite being an arms dealer who uses a company as a front for his business, maybe called "Arctic Technology," therefore earning himself the nickname "Penguin." That seems like a Nolan thing to me, but even then he would need to be the subvillain. I still don't like the Penguin for a Nolan movie, but I can at least see SOMETHING that might work. Catwoman makes little to no sense to me at all. If anyone has an idea other than "Female burglar who robs from the rich and gives to the poor," please post, cause those other ideas just don't mesh with the NOLAN Batman universe. Just look at the villains he has used so far. They are realistic, dark, and tight. Catwoman doesn't fit in my humble opinion.
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I hear what you're saying about the Penguin stepping into fill the void, just think the execution of that would be a lot tougher than thinking of the concept. But I like the Blood Diamond reference, very "Nolanesque."
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The penguin is a normal 9 to 5 bloke with a normal dull existence. think robin williams character from one hour photo. he works in a factory ina very unsatisfying job and basically his life is lonely and depressing. think sean penn in the assasination of richard nixon. the factory he works in is a biscuit factory that predominantly specialises is making those delicious chocolate Penguin bars, do you get those in the U.S? Anyway, despite hating his job he really really loves his penguin bars and when suddenly he gets fired from his job for eating one too many penguin bars whilst on the factory lines, he goes apeshit and basically decides to be all that he has been supressing inside all his life .... a penguin!!! what do you think?
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"Just look at the villains he has used so far. They are realistic, dark, and tight."In what sense is the League of Shadows, an ancient society of ninjas, realistic?
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Nothing in any comic book is realistic so to speak. I'm saying the way they are portrayed has realistic logic behind the idea. Now, Terrorist organizations in Afghanistan have been showing videos where guys dressed like Ninjas train at Terror camps. Technically, that shit exists. Nolan takes the realistic parts of certain villains to mesh them with his world. I'm saying, what kind of villain would Catwoman be who robs houses? If you can't at least do something as large as Shadows or Joker, then don't fucking make another movie. Seriously, if the scale of what is to be done to Gotham isn't on the same level as the first two films, then the Gotham police are rendered ineffective idiots like in every other Batman film except for Burton's first, and Nolan's of course. Why would Batman return to stop a burglar? The police can handle that. The "realism" edge is what Nolan based the new films on in the first place, if he gets away from that, then what's the point? Glad I'm not Nolan, and I can understand why he and Goyer got stuck with the 3rd story for a while.
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Nolan has said he doesn't believe you have to top the previous movie when making a series. He thinks that is a mistake and has said so in interviews, stating that he believes you should worry about making the best movie and going where the characters would naturally go.
And yes, on paper as I described her, Catwoman seems kind of boring but you got to remember that she A) Isn't really a villain, but more like an anti-hero and potential romantic figure; B) she isn't there to create a big master plot, she is there to complicate Batman's personal life; and C) who says she just has to rob houses?
A) Catwoman is kind of Batman's opposite number. She is not evil and a killer, but her life is also based on trauma and a firm belief in what is right - in here case that it is ok to steal as long as you steal from the rich and people who don’t deserve their wealth (she obviously came from a poor background). I imagine where Bruce Wayne travelled the world learning martial arts and detective skills, Catwoman had a similar journey learning some martial arts but mostly Parkour and Thievery. And like Bruce Wayne who puts on an act as a rich spoiled heir, Catwoman puts on an act that she is a vapid slut to get in close with the rich and powerful and scout them out.
B) Because she isn’t really a villain she doesn’t have to creating some big world shattering plot (but she might be incidentally involved with it). She serves pretty much the same functions as Rachel and Harvey Dent/Two-Face did - as characters that Batman interact with and creates problems because of his feelings for that person. Here is a crook who creates a personal dilemma for Bats, because he knows she isn’t completely evil or even really evil, she just has a different moral belief system - stealing from those who can afford it is ok. She exist in the grey zone which is hard for Batman because he likes to look at the world in B&W.
And I could easily she an awesome chase scene between the two kind of like what they did in the Batman: TAS. Think of it as the foot chase at the beginning of Casino Royale meets the car chase along the winding road in Once A Thief - a parkour/free running chase across rooftops and through alleyways that is also very flirting and sexual (at least for Catwoman).
C) And finally, she might only be a burglar so that would make her someone who shouldn’t warrant Batman’s time, but if you look in the comics she usually gets involved in bigger, messier crimes. She is kind of like Pussy Galore, who get’s involved in Goldfinger’s plot despite not being evil.
For this scenario I could easily see the Penguin needing something from Wayne Enterprises, and if you are going to steal something from the most heavily secured place in Gotham you’ll probably need the world’s greatest thief. I could also see such a crime grabbing Batman’s attention and leading him to investigate and discover what bigger caper the Penguin is planning.
And if you ever read the Golden Age Catwoman stories, she invariably gets involved with a criminal partner who double cross her and Batman has to save her - and of course, Catwoman then returns the favor. Well same thing would work here - The Penguin got what he needed and decides to get rid of any links to himself so he sends some men to kill Catwoman and Batman comes to her rescue. And later on when Batman is in trouble, Catwoman shows up and helps him out despite the personal risk (which leads to why Batman lets her go - he is attracted to her AND he owes her).
And then at the end of the movie you show Bruce Wayne thinking about Catwoman and Catwoman thinking about Bruce Wayne.
Hell, it writes itself. -
It's delicious.
But can we change them to Hostess Twinkees and Cup Cakes? -
Batman is being chased by Gordon and the cops - all the cities energies are being diverted to "Hunt the Bat." But Batman knows that the Penguin is plotting something big - a crime that will kill hundreds if not thousands but will be deemed an accident. Batman has to investigate what this crime is and stop it all the while trying to avoid being arrested or killed. And with no support from anyone.
As for what the crime is, I could easily see it as a variation of Luthor's real estate scam in Superman: The Movie or, a better analogy, the Drought and plundering of the valley in Chinatown. The Penguin is going to carry out a crime that will be deemed an accident or natural disaster and he will profit tremendously from it. It is a crime that Batman was made for - something no one will suspect was a crime or ever investigate, especially with the Penguin's connection. Only someone outside the system can stop this - like Batman. -
Batman needs a new love interest! Although can you imagine Bale in this iteration of the batsuit in a chase on foot?And harking back to realism, its not so much appearance (and Al-Qaeda don't look THAT much like Ninja's) but the idea of some omni-present ancient order that had a hand in all the various historical catastrophes down the ages. It's not realistic at all, but that's why I liked it.
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I would use the crappy suit in the chase. Sure Bats can glide which gives him a way to stay close, but I would have Catwoman run rings around him and make him look like an oaf.
Which would lead Batman dumping the armor for a suit made of lightweight nano tubes.
BTW - good to see yah SD. -
This is the last Batman film. Nolan is finishing the series, from his own mouth. How does ur idea finish the story? These characters still seem more Burton than Nolan to me. Obviously we are going in circles, and if Nolan picks either Catwoman or Penguin you can all rub it in my face, unless the film sucks. I just don't see Catwoman at all, and the love story thing seems like a rerun of BR. Still putting my money on a different villain. We'll find out. Good posts though.
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Which ironically put me to sleep. Zzzzzz
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I really have no idea what villains will be in the next one. I would LIKE it to be Catwoman and Penguin (and to be honest, two cats named Waylon Jones and Floyd Lewton to act as the Penguin's special enforcers) but whose to say? What I am doing now is just trying to prove they CAN work. And I understand if they still don't rock your boat - you're obviously a Batman fan and have your own preferences for who he should fight. Everyone has their own personal favorites (as long as it isn't Kite-Man, Ten-Eyed Man or Orca).
As for how my idea finishes the story, by doing the only thing left - having Bruce Wayne accept being Batman and finishing his transformation into the character from the comic books. I don’t think Bale has acted a lot like the Batman from the comics - he is to “whiny” and filled with ‘doubt” - but as Noted_Sage_Yackbacker said he is still young and new to the business. This is the adventures of an inexperienced Batman, so we have to take him the rest of the way.
The first movie was about Fear - Batman overcoming his fear so he could fight crime. The second film was about Escalation - the idea that Batman must accept that he presence will cause greater evils to surface, and accept the fact that the presence of Batman might sometimes cause escalating loss of life because that is how people will target him. The third film must be about Commitment - Bruce Wayne must accept the role of Batman and commit to it because after this film he is going to be Batman for 10-15 years. Protecting Gotham will not be the easy job he though it would be (think of it as a metaphor for the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan if you want) and we must show that his sacrifice will be needed.
How do you show someone making such a commitment? By showing the consequences of what happens if he is not around. Rachel and Dent are the consequences of Batman being around, but if he wasn't around you have to show that things would be worse.
And how would I personally do that? I'm glad you asked because I would tie it into the only major element of the Batman mythos missing.
The Penguin works in the background, doing crimes no one is aware of. I would say that one of his associates is mob boss Tony Zukko, who the Penguin has set up to be the front of the Gotham Underworld so he takes all the heat (kind of like how Tony Soprano let Uncle Junior take the title of boss so the FBI would be focused on him). Now I would also have a married couple accidentally discover some information that could tie the Penguin to a crime, so he gets Zukko to kill them and make it look like an accident. No one suspects a thing...
...accept the couples eight-year old kid is aware it was murder and not an accident. Now Batman learns of this and realizes this kid is in danger because he can finger Zukko, who could finger the Penguin. Batman must protect this kid while at the same time stopping the Penguin's bigger plot.
And this is where the commitment comes in: Batman looks at this kid and he sees himself as a child, angry, bitter, scared and hurt. Bruce Wayne realizes why he became Batman - to stop things like this from ever happening to someone else. To protect the innocence from the pain he went through. And only a guy like Batman can do something about it because the cops and the public don't even want to look at a criminal like the Penguin - they just want to ignore him and pretend he doesn’t exist.
That is where Batman learns that he must stay committed to his crusade - because without him criminals like the Penguin could kill with impunity because no one would stand up to them or even realize that a crime has happened. That is the final step Batman must take - realizing that ONLY HE can do this and must continue to do this. It will be a long and continuous crusade.
Of course I would also have the final movie about Redemption and Hope. Batman trying to redeem himself for his belief that he failed Rachel and Dent (Gordon going through the same guilt). And also Hope, because Batman can now hope that Catwoman can redeem herself giving him hope that maybe there is someone out there who understands him like Rachel did.
And the final Redemption and Hope thread is the young boy. Batman feels he must redeem himself for failing this child and must keep being Batman to make sure it never happens again. And Hope because Batman hopes that child will not succumb to anger and bitterness like he did. I would have the child’s Aunt take him in and Batman set up a trust fund in the kid’s name, but knowing deep down that probably won’t be enough because he knows exactly how the kid feels.
And that is how I would complete Nolan’s story using the Penguin & Catwoman. I’m sure they will do something else, but once again I think this shows that they can work in the Nolan universe.
PS - For BurnHollywood and others, I would have the very end of the movie be a letter on Gordon’s desk with a question mark on it - hinting that the crusade to fight evil never ends. -
soon as avatar became a massive success, nolan publicly denounced 3d. what does he know that cameron, cuaron, spielberg, jackson, and even scorsese dont? all these a-list names have shown interest in trying out the 3d format. if nolan prefers to doing it old school, with film, and not digital, fine. just dont talk about the 3d tech like you know more about it than cameron/zemeckis/spielberg/jackson combined. it makes you sound like an idiot.
and 2. nobody cares how many lightstops you use for the interogation scene when you still cannot direct an action scene properly.
3. i still cant believe there are people out there who praised the prestige. it's one of the silliest film i've seen. i cant even believe it's directed by the same guy who did memento and insomnia.
4. in case you're wondering where i'm coming from: dark knight> avatar. all cameron's films> prestige. -
Let me tell you what Cameron, Spielberg, Jackson know. Avatar sucked balls because it was all imagery, no story. The latest Indiana Jones sucked because it was all imagery, no story. King Kong sucked because it was all imagery, no story. Even Lucas, the prequels were all imagery, no story and they fucking sucked. But if the amount of money a movie makes is how you measure whether or not a movie is good, good for you, I feel bad for you. Nolan was saying that 3D is a movie of the week effect that will be used to mask films with no story ala, but in my opinion, "Avatar" and "Clash of the Titans." Studios will make everything 3D for the money, and not give a fuck about the story. Nolan has shown that great storytelling can lead to a BILLION dollar movie as much as a storyless 3D shitfest like "Avatar." You like 3D, great, I think it's okay, but there must be a story with it. Would Crystal Skulls have been better if it were 3D? Nope, it's story still sucked, PERIOD! That's all Nolan was saying. It's cool if you like 3D, but Nolan didn't rip Avatar, his point was simply 3D will eventually get old. As for your dislike of "The Prestige," I won't argue with that, it's your opinion. I love Cameron, and I love Nolan. I just think "Avatar" used 3D as a crutch and it showed. As for action direction, the end fight in "Avatar" was choppy, slow, predictable, and fucking boring. Sorry.
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love it when director said they had the idea for a movie ten years ago, when you can plainly see some of the influences for that idea from a much recent film. exactly like what cameron said about avatar. 'oh oh, i conceived of this idea on the day i was born! it's original!' yeah yeah, except kevin costner has beat you to it. directors should stop saying something is new/original when it's actually a rip off other works. at least come out and admit, 'yes yes, i tried to do my own spin with it, but the original idea is never my own.' that i can at least respect, rather than fooling the clueless masses into thinking they're actually witnessing something new.
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rip on avatar and indy4 all you want. i did my share as well. i'm not talking about the story here. i'm talking about the 3d tech. nolan talked and talked as if he's well versed enough in the tech to badmouth it, when in fact even the most well versed technical directors around see the pros in it. whose words am i to believe when it comes to this new tech? the guys who've always been pushing the envelope in film tech for decades, or a guy who just got his first taste of blockbuster success? and even if you want to dismiss those technically proficient directors, scorsese, a name most respected in the film medium today, is giving 3d a chance with his next project. so is he being a sellout, or nolan's ego got the best of him?
oh but then he also said (from the article)"if people want to watch stereoscopic imaging then there’s no question that’s what the studios are going to make and that’s what he’ll be doing." so bascially if people want it, he'll do it in 3d too. way to stand firm on your belief, dude.
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Amy Pond is the new Doctor Who companion, a sassy scotish lass, and she is played by the lovely scotish actress Karen Gillan.Don't be too harsh on your country. I know, familiarity breeds contempt and all that, i know what you feel, it happens to anybody. there are time si just wish i could whiskey myself away from my neck of the woods too. Thing is, the food here is jsut great, and so are the beverages, and the girls, when they are pretty, they are stunning. and thanks to the mixed blood of the common portugues,e there's brunettes, redheads, blondes, ashen, you name it!I was disapointed with my country's perfoemance at the game yesterday with Ivory Coast. We have a great team filled to the grills with excelent players. The problem is organization. I just don't trust the trainer much. And my mistrust is being proved. We should had done so much better.Sorry, but my apartment is for sale. Can't help you there with your own exodus, friend. Sorry.
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I know that since the late 70s, i saw the Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious Worlds TV series, he disproved the existence of the monster quite well.
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Just admit that TDK is not the movie you want a Batman movie to be like. And masterpieces cames in all shapes and types. TDK is one of them. And don't forget, for me there's only two type of movies: god and bad. The good ones can seat next to each other nicely and they don't contrast. I can seat TDK next to The Godfather and Bycicle Thief and all the lot of the good stuff. I don't seperate movies from their genres nor if they are maisntream or art-house. There is only good and bad movies, nothing more.I know you have very stprong anf personalized opiniosn of what a Batman movie should be like, due to your long time fandom about the character and the comics. And it's clouding your judgement about TDK. So, yeah, you don't think it's a masterpiece, your loss, truly. I mean,a s i said before, you don't even need to love a masterpiece to know it's one, like i said before with my case about CASABLANCA. You don't have to love all masterpieces, nobody has! Just know they are suffices.
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Have you seen INCEPTION already? Then how can you say it's exactly like PAPRIKA? Specially about a movie which we know next to nothing of what's the story about and what's the plot? How about we watch the movie first, hem? And where the fuck your deep distrust about Christopher nolan cames from? Where has he has done a shiity movie before where he fucked up in the technical department? Personally, i think he's right to be distrustful of the 3D fad of the moment nonsense that's going on. So Scorsese is using 3D, that should be the end of the discussion? No, thisis the begining of the discussion, and we will ahve to wait until the deluge of 3D movies happens upon us to see who's really in the right. But so far, i'm on the skeptics side, it feels like a gimmick to sell more overpriced tickets. Worked for AVATAR, doesn't means it can work for everything.And Nolan is very savvy about the technical side of filmmaking. Watch his filmmography, and you will not find one single made for Tv movie, Tv series or music videos. He has only worled on films and nothing else, right from the start. He was evne his own cinematographer and camera operator in FOLLOWING. He followed the Ridley Scott school of "do it yourself" filmmaking for his early movies, and he didn't even made comemrcials like Scott did at the start. He has only made movies and nothing else. Thus, i think the man really has a pretty good vision of what is a movie. He's not influenced by any other medium technicallitie,s you know, like Michael Bay, whose movies all look like over-inflated music videos, or JJ Abrams, whose all movies look like over-inflated TV episodes of Felicity. Nolan is, toda,y one of the purest film director there is. I trust what he has to say about filming and the techniques used any day of the week. Specially over yours, friend.
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let's see...one one side you have spielberg, cameron, zemeckis, jackson, del toro, scorsese, scott... guys who have decades of experiences in cinematography n film tech. they have/are willing to give this 3d tech a try. then on the other side you have nolan, a guy who's still new to the high tech side of filmmaking, he claims 3d sucks(but admits he's willing to try it if the public demands).
look at the two ends of the seesaw. only a rabid nolan fanatic would side with him by his lonesome.
and sure, i havent seen inception. but i've seen paprika, and it's clear from the inception's trailers that some of the imagery were taken from that anime. that's just the imagery. how about the similar concept of manipulating dreams? look, directors steal all the time. some of the best films i've seen are not the most original. just dont proclaim it as something new when it's not. less ego talk and more direct honesty, that's all i ask. -
just in case it's not clear to some of you... nolan said 3d sucks BUT he's willing to do it if the studio/public demands it.
not if the STORY demands it. IF THE STUDIO DEMANDS IT.
so even if he think it's a gimmick, he'll do it for money. that's basically how he feels about it. way to go, artistic integrity!
look, it's fine if you want to do it for more money. film is a business after all. but if you want to keep badmouthing 3d now but use it later down the road, it'll only make look a hypocrite. just concentrate on making great movies and shut up about things you have little knowledge of. -
It sounds like your promoting a holiday hotel, good food , good beverages. do you have a swimming pool too, and a maid service in the mornings? You said it, familiarity breeds contempt, it's almost unnatural to stay in one area all your life, it's bound to drive the average person nuts, never anything new around the corner, same old shit, different day. i suppose its different if you like your surroundings but my feelings are theres not alot to like, its as if i picked the shitty end of the stick and was made to live here. its grey, its cold, its depressing. fuck that!!!! i'm leaving for europe in the not too distant future with my gal. In the meantime if you want a trip to scotland I recommend you rewatch Braveheart and Rob Roy, alot more exciting ;)
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In terms of vacations, my country is super. The food, wines and beer here re great. Some of the ebst in the world. It's no boas,t it's fact. Portuguese cousine is influenced by cousine around the world, due to our history of the discoveries and world traveling, we used to have a world empire once. Thus, we have a mediterranean cousine influenced by africa, asia and middle east. And each 20 kilometers, you will find a local dish that's just great. The diversity here is unbelievable. And while the french wines have the fame, ours are as good as theirs, and with as much diversity too. And while north europe is famed for their beers, our beers are second to none as well. In terms of scenery, food and drinks, my country is awesome. Too bad it's in the hands of incompetent politics that make Tony Blair look like he knews what he was doing.And i'm one of those rare beasts that thinks ROB ROY is a much better movie then the over-rated science fiction movie BRAVEHEART. I call it science fiction because there's little history in that movie, except for the name of some kings and knights. The movie that is famous for showing the Battle of Stirling BRIDGE happening in a PLOUGH FIELD! That shit never ceases to make me laugh!
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Because Nolan works in a vaccum, dpoesn't he? He can make his movies out of his own pocket, right? Give me a break!And you know what? I don't give a fuck what Zemeckis and Jackson say about 3D, their last movies have been disapointing to say the least. To say the least, specially that hack Zemeckis. Scorsese needs a commercial hit so he can make his more personal movies. Spielberg is an iatus on credibility for me thanks to his INDY 4: CRYSTAL SKULLFUCK, and unles she makes another MUNICH, what he says i take with a grain of salt or two. Cameron, he did ONE MOVIE specifically for 3D, he was not starting a trend, he was making the best thing for his movie. Scott, brillant director that he is, he's now a journeyman, he does studio movies, he will do what a studio wants, it's called carrer smarts. And speaking of carrer smarts, that's what nolan is doing too. All your precious directors mentioned above also did that, they made whole careers with carrer smarts by playing with the studios as well. Nolan is doing nothing different. And my admiration for Nolan cames form his movies, which are all very good, and from what he says in interviews. He is a very good director, and the stuff he says is very sensible. Deal with it.
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I completely agree, for me it is about acceptance that he may continue to be hunted, but Gotham needs him, Gordon and the police force have limitations and they need him, and Bruce needs "Batman" to give him purpose and ensure that he isn't consumed in depression, and guilt.
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Hopefully he does use Penguin, the character is well done and we can forget the awfulness and the joke that was Burton's Penguin.Will be a very different perspective than Joker. With Joker, the mainstream audience generally has a positive opinion of the character, and Nicholson's performance was generally highly regarded, and it strengthened the view of the character.With the Penguin, I think mainstream audiences upon hearing about this character being in the movie will at first groan, with their mind going back to the freakshow that was Devito's Penguin. The character after that performance went down in most people's view. May be the initial groan, before remembering its Nolan's Penguin they will see will have an impact on how they approach the film, maybe with some level of concern. Maybe thats a good thing.
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I think this would be a perfect time to bring Catwoman to the fold. As many people have said before, and maybe evne our friend conti, i think Catwoman could be presented as a mirror figure to Batman. but while batman is driven by an pure altruistic motive, Catwamn could be an as much dammage person as Bruce Wayne, but her motivatiosn be purely egotistical. she could contrast with Batman because of the nature of her actions, egotistical in contrast to Bruce Wayne's altruism. She could be a mirror to Wayne, but distorted. Or course, whatever i say means nothing at all. The Nolans will do what they want or allowed to do. And thanks to both BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT, i'm sure the Nolan brothers can come up with better stuff then the one i can dream of. Wait and see indeed.
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If i'm not mistaken, the Nolans wanted Pinguin for THE DARK KNIGHTa, but they figured there was so many characters they had to cut out some, and Pinguin got the shaft. And their idea of Pinguin was of a crime boss. They seem to evne wanted Bob hoskins to play Pinguin, and i suspect their idea for thw character was something like the character Hoskins played in THE LONG GOOD FRIDAY.
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Long Good Friday Hoskins would be good, but think Bob is a little too old for it nowMaybe not for the Penguin, but would love to see Tom Hardy of Bronson get a role in Bats 3
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to Conti's earlier comments would love to see either of the two in Bats 3. With Batman being hunted, Deadshot seems the natural fit and being hired by the Penguin.
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I actually don't care who the villain is, I just want the damn movie to be made and come out!!!!! Too bad Nolan won't be doing anymore after the third, he really has given us a great version of Batman, I wish he would make more, but I admire him for putting a limit on it as well, he makes great non Batman films as well, and doesn't want to limit himself to just that.
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I agree with you about Braveheart being historically inaccurate on many levels. I'd like to know what it was like being a scottish actor in that movie and being directed by an aussie/american who is playing the biggest bad ass scotland has ever produced and being historically innaccurate at the same time. those scots actors/extras must have been thinking ... "och this bloody yank, fit dus he kane aboot scottish history, i wint tae tell him he's got it ah wrong, but he wid probably fire my backside for looking at him in the bloody eye, ach weel, at least i'm getting sum fresh air and being paid 50 bob for mee troubles!" ..... As far as the film goes, it's entertaining and has some of the best battle scenes i've ever seen, accurate or not. I also really like Rob Roy though. Saw it again recently and one thing i noticed more so than i did before was the dialouge was very bang on the money as far as the scots language is concered and it beats braveheart hands down in that dept. With Rob Roy, they wern't afraid that the audience might not understand a word bcos they were being as accurate to the times as possible. even i had trouble understanding what certain words meant .... quim for example, which ive since learned means a womans vagina. Acting wise I think both Tim Roth and Brian Cox are brilliantly sleazy and vile in their roles and Liam Neeson brings alot of weight to his role aswell, for some reason i love his getaway scene when he hides in the belly of a dead highland cow. But what i always remember beyond all else about Rob Roy is the end swordfight, which is one of the best duals i've ever seen, not because it's set in a lava world and is choregraphed to within an inch of its life and lasts forever, no, because it's intense, and realistic and you can really feel that both men are up for it, and when Liam Neeson grabs Tim Roths sword with his bare hand and slices his upper body in two, well i like that scene. so as far as which one i prefer its a close call for me, both have merit, but i'm gonna supposrt the underdog and go with Rob Roy. Now I'm a huge fan of the original Die Hard, what do you make of its sequels and what would u like to see from a possible 5th? did u like that supposed title of diehard 24/7?
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continental, i love the idea of ending the film on a question mark, both literally and thematically. thats the perfect note to end the trilogy because the whole idea of batman's journey is that it's a never-ending struggle with no real end or definitive answer, both to his personal demons and society's at large. that should be a big part of the theme, too, if this is intended to be the end of the story, or at least this part of batman's career.
for villain, my money is on catwoman. she's always been my favorite and i think her character dovetails nicely with the themes i described above. michelle pfeiffer gave as classic a performance as jack nicholson, but i would love to see something darker than secretary-seamstress-gone-wild. more along the lines of a trampy, year one-style prostitute, for sure.
and for those who say that a cat-burglar isn't BIG/BAD enough to follow The Joker? joss whedon followed Glory, a GOD, with three nerdy dudes on "Buffy" precisely because he knew that he couldn't top her.
i think a fugitive batman dealing with a dark attraction to a chick who does nothing to help his reputation, and trying to redeem her as she possibly tries to corrupt him... well, that's the kind of movie i would love to see Noaln make next. -
Even though you were not addressing me, I am responding anyways LOL.Regarding Die Hard films....The first is and always will be the best, that is the quintessential action film, and no one, not even it's sequels have come close to topping it. Hans Gruber is probably the best bad guy in an action movie, Alan Rickman was just freaking awesome.Die Hard 2 - Again, like with many films, I seem to be in the minority of people who liked it. I liked the bad guys, Bill Sadler has always been a fav of mine, the setting was at least different from the first film. I dunno, I just liked it and not because I'm an idiot or "bought in" to hype or anything else.DHWAV - Definitely the second best DH film, loved that it was Hans Gruber's brother, and that Simon's (Jeremy Irons, always great) plan (covering up a robbery by pretending to make a "statement") was just like his brothers in DH1. Sam Jackson was a good companion to McClane.LFODH - Ehhhhhh....if it wasn't a Die Hard movie, it might have fared better, but to make McClane Superman was a bit much, he wasn't an every day guy in this one, yea he got hurt, but it didn't have the same tension, I never really felt like he was up against something he couldn't get out of, it was just like "yea he will think of something". Disappointing to say the least. Die Hard 24/7???? I think it is a really stupid title and hope they come up with something better. I also hope they get the feel of the first and third movies back. Anyways, that's my take on DH. Even though you didn't ask for it LOL.
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Yeah, I personally think it is a natural fit. Now they could make the 3rd film's theme be something else, like Redemption, Hop, Forgiveness, etc, but I think commitment would definitely be part of the film. The film series has to end knowing Batman is going to keep going at it and realize that this is, as vivalabeck said, an never-ending struggle.
I'm probably the only one who wouldn't mind the next one being called "CAPED CRUSADER." Sure it is campy and brings back images of the 60s show, but I think it sums up the idea that this is a long crusade for Batman, not some easy one shot mission. Like "The Dark Knight" giving new meaning to Batman's nickname, so could this film. -
Also what I love about those guys is that they are actually not that hard to adapt to fit into Nolan's universe, especially if you look at how they first appeared.
When Killer Croc first appeared he wasn't a humaniod reptile but was originally just an ex-Alligator Wrestler, powerhouse who suffered from severe skin disorder called Ichthyosis, like this but worse:
http://tinyurl.com/29uef95
And this is how Floyd Lawton, Deadshot, first looked when he appeared in 1951:
http://tinyurl.com/2692j95
Maybe not the coolest appearance, but certainly something you could easily update (get rid of the tux for just a suit with a slight western flair for example). And you can even give hints to his more famous costume by having him use concealed guns up his sleeves (think Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver and his spring-loaded pistols) and have him wear a ski-mask in one scene with a single night-vision google (which is actually how Special Forces do it because that way they still have depth perception).
That is why I think both could work as henchmen/hitmen, they don't need a lot of backstory, they are just "henchmen" and they are easily adaptable to a more plausible universe IMO. -
Let me just say that for me, i pretend Die Hard 2 and 4 never happened. And i intent to keep it that way.You are very right about what you say about ROB ROY. I'm not a scotish, but i felt the dialogue and expressions used in the movie felt very trute to life. I felt i was watching a movie about people and not characters, if you get my point.The sword fight in ROB ROY is indeed phenomenal. One of the top best i ever seen in a movie, as equal as to the sword fights in the sadly much ignored but great first movie directed by Ridley Scott, THE DUELISTS.In ROD ROY, Tim Roth plays a great villain. In many other movies, he would be a complete effette who would shit in the presence of Rob Roy. But in this movie, everybody shits in his presence, he is the fucking terminator, and even the most badass of badasses of the whole of Scotland, Rob Roy himself, almost gets his ass handled by Roth. Rob Roy wins because he thinks outside the box and does the unexpected.I think one of the reasons ROB ROY works so well is that it was directed by a scotsman, and i think that makes the difference. And speaking about ROB ROY, one should never forget to mention the score. The score composed by Carter Burwell is just beyond belief. It's so beautiful it hurts. Just thinking about it, specially the main theme, makes my skin crawl.Saying all that, you know what is the thing i most like about ROB ROY? notice that in the movie, every character is an intelligent person. Everybody is smart and intelligent and savvy in the movie. Heroes, villains, sidekicks, henchmen, the men, the ladies, everybody. What a great feel it is to watch a movie populated with smart people, for a change!
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the difference is those guys i mentioned didnt attack 3d before they plan to use it. they saw potential in the new tech, while nolan dismissed it outright as lesser tech. and he's done that publicly for a few times now.
so what... those names i mentioned are wrong about 3d? never mind that they're the giants of the industry with extensive filmmaking experience. this one guy, nolan, said 3d sucks. and you just took his words for it over those giants. riiight.. biased much?
this is what happened... nolan bet on imax. he thought he's being a pioneer in filmmaking when he's championing imax camera for film. and for a little while everybody was talking about how great it looks on screen. then avatar happened, and now everyone's talking about how great the 3d look and nobody's talking about imax. avatar basically stole nolan's thunder. 3d is now the new trend, not imax. and now his ego is bruised. hence he cant stop shitting on 3d at every chance. but wait! he's going to do it in 3d too if the studio demands it! yeah, a stickler to his own principle, that guy.
and "all very good"? no. one is very moronic. it's called the prestige. it's even more moronic than jj's star trek if you can believe it. -
Guess what, Imax is better then 3D. But the fad of the moment is 3D, or so the studios want us to believe. all we had so far was ONE MOVIE, that was very sucessful, which is AVATAR, and the conclusion that studio heads come with is that it's the 3D that's responsible for it. Same way the studios though back in 1977 when Star Wars was very sucessful and the studios though the real reason was the special effects and nothing else.And ask me, this, how can one be rabid about a really good director that delivers the goods? Am I also rabid about Stanley Kubrick because i think all his movies he made are brillant pieces of cinema? Whjat the fuck is your problem in rightly praise a very good director for the right things he does and say? What the fuck is your problem with that? What is your problem?
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Check this out:
http://www.libertasfilmmagazine.com/what-is-christopher-nolan-doing-with-superman/ -
biased much?
you're a rabid fan because you think nolan knows more about 3d than all the a-list directors in hollywood combined.
just because he's a good director doesnt mean he's right on everything. we're not talking about the quality of his films now, we're talking about his view regarding 3d. stick on topic. -
Overrated, doesn't need to be in every single stinking movie, but it's the trend, gotta deal with it unfortunately. Avatar's 3D was exceptional. but not every movie has a gazillion dollar budget like Avatar had. Just make a good fucking movie, and forget the damn 3D...jeez does everything have to be a fucking gimmick?
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then it ceases to be a gimmick. 3d is just another tool. dont hate the tool, hate the hacks who use it wrong. nolan, of all people, would realize this himself if his ego hasn't got the better of him.
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Rabid? Look at the mirror, friend, it's you who seems a bit too preocupied in making Nolan look bad for whatever bullshit reason you just pulled out of your ass this morning. Get a grip, man! Or go admire the carrer of Michael Bay, if Nolan upsets you so much!
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"if only one movie can use it right then it ceases to be a gimmick"Wrong. Anything is a gimmick if it's wrongly used in a movie. Slow-motion was used very well by very talented directros and helped tell the story, but then it became a gimmick in the hands of hacks that used and abused it because it was their only idea of "good looking stuff", hacks like Renny Harlin and Michael Bay which abused slow-motion so muchy it became anoying and irrtating instead of interesting and cool. This happens with any filmmaking technique. shjaky cam was fascinating and inovative when they first used it, now it's irritating and mostly badly used by hacks like Bay and JJ Abrams. It also happens with weird intrusive sound effects, used to be cool when David Lynch first used them inhis earlier movies, but when hacks started to abuse it, it became fucking anoying. Extreme colour grading was inicially cool and interesting when oliver Stone start palying with it in NATURAL BORN KILLERS, but hacks like tony Scott abused it so much that by the time he did DOMINO nobody could stand it anymore.3D is the same shit. Cameron used it well. They tried it for CLASH OF THE TITANS and it fucking sucked, because it was hacks misusing for dumb stupid reasons (a fast 3D convertions to jump onthe bandwagon). already ttwo movies in and we already have two great examples of good and bad use of 3D. and evne in AVATAR, the 3d became tiring and anoying and distracting by the one hour mark, and i still had to endure one and half hour more of it.What Nolan says about 3d rings very true. And he gives a very informed opinion on his reasons, on why he thinks so. and what you have to offer for yours? What other filmamkers, many of them very dependent on the studio's will, say? What do YOU have to say about it? Because as i'm concerned, i'm not very welcoming of a time when everytime i go to the movies i'll suffer a migrane because of the anoying 3D that outstays it's welcome past one hour of screentime.
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is what you've been making in defense of nolan. guy said 3d sucks. i dont agree. most a-list directors dont agree. that's my beef with him.
you know who agreed with nolan? michael bay. yeah, he also said 3d is a gimmick. and just like nolan, bay too had said he'd do it in 3d when the chance permits. see? the two have something in common.
i dont need to make nolan looks bad, he makes himself look like the typical egomaniac director whenever he slams 3d. nobody's following in his imax footstep, deal with it and stop sulking already. -
Nolan just voiced his opinion about 3D. I have an opinion too, I think it's okay, but i DON'T want to see a Batman movie in 3D. Nolan just voiced his personal opinion, what's so wrong with that? And you don't have to make a 3D film to have a professional opinion of it. I mean, who the FUCK is Scorsese to say 3D is interesting, he's never made a 3D film before, FUCK HIM!!!
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The only thing I liked about "Avatar" was the 3D gave depth to what would have been a CGI shitfest. I think if a movie is a purely CG film, 3D can give it depth and make it worth watching. But in a film like TDK where CG is very limited, it's not necessary. I think 3D can be effective, but when it's a gimmick like in "Journey to the Center of the Earth," I have no interest. Would have liked to have seen the Star Wars prequels in 3D to give all the CG some depth like in "Avatar." Unfortunately, as was the case with "Avatar" 3D doesn't fix the story. But imagine a CGI film with a great story in 3D, that would be worth seeing. But until that happens, as far as I'm concerned, 3D is just a gimmick right now. In that sense, I agree with Nolan.
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who? spielberg, jackson, scott, CAMERON? these guys would gladly bend their asses for the studio??? who keeps making up lame excuses? if you get a migrane then stick to 2d. 3d is an option. no one is forcing you to watch everything in 3d.
what nolan said about 3d ring very stupid. he said post conversion 3d is better than real 3d. did you read that? do you think the 3d in clash of the titans and alice look better than in avatar? because your idol seems to think so.
what reason do i offer to defend 3d, you asked. here's my reason: the 3d in avatar looks great to my eyes. there, it's that simple. the depth of field beats nolan's imax. and that's why i think he's wrong. -
hence i said, blame the craftmen, and not the craft itself. a point asimov missed completely, hence his long winded post above repeating exactly what i meant. the idiot.
sure sure, nolan is just voicing his opinion. and here i'm also just voicing MY OPINION that nolan should check his ego before it got any worse, and just concentrate on delivering a solid bat3. if he doesnt like 3d, fine, just leave 3d to the big boys. but whenever he presents himself to know better than those guys, to make it look like 3d is beneath him, that frankly makes him look small. to me. -
nolan dismissed it outright. one is being adventurous n imaginative. one is acting like a girl with a bruised ego(nooo! imax is STILL better! LISTEN TO MEEEEE!!!). surely, you can tell the difference. :)
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Opinions from anyone are welcomed, addressed or not. Agree with you almost entirely about the series. Die Hard is obviously still one of the best action thrillers around and easily the best of the 4, I like Die Hard 2 but I dont love it, it's not a patch on the original but it tries hard to be and importantly for me it feels like a die hard film, something others in the series didn't achieve. more of that in a minute. Die Hard 3 for me didnt work. It starts off well with explosion, harlem, subway etc but after McClane is told of simon and his relations to Hans the film just gets lost amidst badly shot action and effects with no real suspense. To name a few things I dont like about the film, Firstly I dont want McClane to be washed up and hungover. I liked him when he was strong and had his wits about him, like the 1st film. he's like a different guy in part 3 which i know ppl will argue that ppl change etc but if you change the character then part of the appeal is immediately lost, why change him to a drunk when ppl loved him for who he was before? I think the action scenes are shot badly, the elevator scene where McClane kills all those bad guys is almost incomprehensible in that I cant see what the hell he's doing, the fight he has with Targo on the ship, what was that about, its over in seconds and all you see is McClane stabbing him on the leg and then whipping him with a chain and thats it, fight over. Very dissapointing. and the ending for me felt uninspired and lacking in any tension, like it was an afterthought. I wanted to love Die hard 3, same director as 1 and all that, but it dissapointed me alot, but I like the first third of the movie. and no 4. terrible. not just for a die hard film but for an action film in general. bruce seemed bored, and we all agreed. i did anyway. awful. i have hopes that if a 5th one is made then they really get back to the claustrophibia element of the 1st but they seem to be going bigger and more expanded with each one. i hope McClane goes it alone with no partner in tow and i hope its violent as all hell. but to be honest it doesnt look good does it. not when your leading man describes in interviews that he thinks live free or die hard is as good if not better than the first. if a 5th is made id want it to be called Die Hardest ... an apt title to end the series on a high note .... i hope.
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THe point of your posts is that you do not have a point. But thank you for sharing your thoughs with us. It was a nice conversation anyway, despiste our divergences.
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Did you read the Quint interview with Ridley Scott? Scott said that Bay ias making TRASHFORMERS 3 in 3D, they even talked with each other about how to approach shooting for that format. so, guess what, your argument that Bay shares the same idea with Nolan falls down to the mud. You need to keep up, or you risk making an argument based on falsehoods. There!
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Jun 16, 2010 1:55:42 PM CDT
AsimovLives ..Get up!!! Ye bunch o ragged-arsed tinker cow-thie
by jackgraham
.... just one of the many rather funny scottish lines from Robert Roy McGregor aka Rob Roy, and heres a link that I think you will like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNcC0Bw9qy0
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THEN after avatar's mega success he said he'd do it if given the chance. what did i say that was wrong?
it's no surprise you cant see my point since your face is so deeply buried in between nolan's ass cheeks at the moment. but if you would just come out of there(as i'm sure you would, eventually, since you need to breathe) the world will open up for you again.
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While i can't speak for everybod,y i do know that what happened with me also happen with others, and the thing is that prolongued exposure to 3d caused migranes. After one hour watching a movie in 3D, i got an headache. 3D stoped beign interesting and became a nuicanse. It became distracting and was taking me away from the story. Now, if the future is movies in 3D, and that means i go to the movies to get a migrane, instead of the wole porpose of what it is to got watch a movie, which is, to have some fun, then it fucks up the whole porpsoe of the thing, doesn't it? Is this the future of cinema? To cause some people, quite many in fact, migranes and disconfort?I'm reminded of those japanses cartoons from the early 2000s, which where so frenetic and had this stroboscopic flashes of colours and sequentialized lights, that it caused seizures on certain people. 3D causes migranes after a while on many people, like myself.And then there's the dramstic impact it can bring. And frnaklyl as somebody who watched AVATAR in 3d and 2D, i see no difference between the movie using both techniques. The movie is just the same. In fac,t watchign it in 2d is far less distracting, because it didn't give me any headches. Only toothaches because of the sacharine sentimentality of the story, but that's another matter.So, frankly, for me, 3D is just a gimmick. It doesn't work as great as it should, it's distracting withough bringing much to the presentation of the story, and it causes health problems to many. I don't see the positive of it. As such, i agree with Nolan's take on 3D.And cloudrider, if nolan irritates you so much with his take on 3D, it's easy, don't watch his movies. There, problem solved. Easy, isn't it?
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And don't talk about heads buried in asses, because by now you must be extremely familiar with the insides of your colon, you could draw a map with your eyes closed.I'm a fan of Christopher Nolan, yeah, what of it? Proud of it too. So there!
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... the fact that simon involves mcclane in his plans doesnt ring true to me. why bother waiting 7 years as die hard is 88 and dhwav is 95. and also im confused as to when dhwav is set bcos the song at the start is summer in the city and it looks hot and sunny in the film yet the kid on the bike says "its xmas, you could steal city gold" is new york usually that summer looking at xmas?
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The movie ROB ROY is filled tot he teeth with great dialogues. Every character gets a pearl of kick-ass dialogue. Jessica Lange's character in particular is recipient of some of the best lines in the movie. Really, i love the movie.I once truied to read the Sir Walter Scott's original story, but it was so different form the plot of the movie, that i just gave up on it. I really loved his IVANHOE, but ROB ROY just didn't rocked my boat. but i realised this, that the movie seems more like a sequel to the book then an adaptation proper.
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you're using the lame 'dont like it, dont watch it' routine??? how cliched and childish can you get? i dont like his view on 3d and i should just ignore all his films? what's one thing got to do with the other, stupid?
but you if get migrane from 3d, just skip 3d films entirely. if you're a blind person, you dont go to movies. if you're deaf you go to musicals. does it mean they should stop making musicals and movies entirely? what are u, a super idiot? dont like 3d, stick to 2d. or find other form of entertainment more suited for you. adapt. dont drag the rest of us to suit your own need. -
believe it. i just dont have my face buried inside his ass, like you. you can be a rabid fanboy(again, like you) or you can be a fan and still maintain your objectivity. one can see logic, the other cant see anything but the hairy ass blocking his view. that's the difference between us.
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The expression the kid uses is to mean that there's no cops securing the place, so the robbers can do anything they want, here wouldn't be a cop around to stop them. Thus, it's open christmas for robvers. It's not supposed to be literal meaning. And you could even read it as an injoke about the first movie, which is indeed set during christmas.Well, miste,r there's no bashing of DIE HARD WITH A VENGENCE on my watch. Because io really like that movie. Right next to DIE HARD, it's the only other Die Hard movie i acknowledge it's exiostence. That shit Die Hard 2 and the other movie made recently that suppsoedly also is acalled die Hard, for me, never happened. Figments of my imagination. And i intend to keep it that way. Thinking about Die Hard 2 causes cancer. Die Hard 2 should had been called "Die Hard Again, Only Worst, Much Worst". At least with DIE HARD WITH A VENGENCE they went for something different. And the brother thing, it was jsut a ploy to divert the cops and McClaine attention formt he real thing. "you killed my brother, i'm going to make you suffer, look like a tool and then kill you" was all bulslhit. The brother couldn't give a shit about Hans Gruber and who killed him, all he cared was gold, tonnes of it, fuck his brother. It was all just a ploy. I mean, remember the scene when McClaine tries to irritate him about how he killed his brother, and all that Simon does is just smile and say "you got him exactly" and walks away unperturbed? That's it. The revenge stuff was just bullshit from Simon. and a smart nice jab at the typical 80s and 90s action movies, specially sequels, which many of them had reasons for it the revenge of some relative or associate of the dead villain from the first movie. In truth, DIE HARD WITH A VENGENCE is a far smarter movie then many give it credit. Completly unlike the other two dumbsequels THAT DON'T FUCKING EXIST!
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The difference between you and me is that you are reachign at straws. So fucking what if i'm more of a fan of Nolan then you? So what if his movies connect with me more then you? So what? What the fuck is this, a penis measurement context? Get real, man! I agree with all that Nolan said about 3D, you don't, so fucking what? Until Nolan says something i disagree with, untile then, i'm not going to pretent to not think he's right just so your sentivites can be smoothed. i'm not going to change my opinion about Nolan because of you, you better accept that. I find it coincidental that so far i agree with everything that Nolan has said about 3D. The day he decided #d is the shit and everythign shoudl be done that wa,y is the day i'll disagree with him, because i really don't like the 3D stuff, and it causes me health problems. Until that say comes, i agree with the man. There's nothng about having my ass up Nolan's ass about that, mister. Deal with it. Start thinking for a while and stop reacting like a scorned bitch. Get your act together and get real.
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CLOUDRIDER, Nolan didn't say Scorsese or Cameron sucked balls, he just thought 3D sucked. That's not EGO, that's an opinion. So you're saying he should have responded "No comment?" He has a right to think 3D sucks, and he has a right to voice that opinion when asked, that has NOTHING to do with EGO. That is all a huge presumption on your part. ASIMOV: I saw "Avatar" in both 3D and 2D and the difference was I walked out of the 2D because I lost interest. The 3D kept me watching before. You are right though, some people get headaches as a result of watching 3D. That is another reason why I think 3D is just a fad that will fade.
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Chill dude, so he didn't like DHWAV, who cares? You like it, as did I, but sitting there telling him why it was so great won't change his opinion of it, just like everyone telling you why they thought Trek was great won't change your mind about it. To each his own bro, doesn't make anyone right or wrong, just different. Much in the same way that I like DH2 and you don't....nothing I say will convince you to like it, nothing you say will convince me to not like it, so why try? We all have our views on things, and seriously, trying to change someones opinion is a futile thing and just leads to dumb arguments.
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because nolan said it. everything nolan said is right. and if he's right about 3d then scorsese, jackson, cameron, zemeckis, cuaron, del toro, etc etc. all these guys must be WRONG. sure.
fine by me if you want to see the world that way. i dont see the world from behind the man's anus. it's just unsanitary.
"so fucking what?" so why do you bother to keep going back and forth with me then? if it's simply a "so fucking what" to you, you'd just plant your head back into nolan's buttcheeks and ignore my posts. but you obviously want to profess your unyielding love for nolan to the entire world. of talkbacks. -
refer my post above. nobody is saying nolan said scorsese sucks. but by dismissing 3d, nolan apparently thinks he knows better than scorsese. and to that i say, 'oh, reaaaaaally?'
ego is when you think you know better than all those guys who have come before you, who have more technical and filmmaking expertise than you, who have been pushing the envelope decades before you even did your first short film. that is EGO. -
I don't want to see a 3D Batman movie and am glad Nolan isn't doing it....and I absolutely HATE when a movie is shot 2D and then converted at the last minute, screw that crap, it seems like a ploy to cover up what is most likely an already bad movie, so lets convert it to 3D so people will come see it and we can maybe make our money back. If your film is good, it does not need to be converted, just leave it alone. It's one thing to shoot in 3D, totally different to convert. Just my humble opinion.
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Consider the fact that JackGraham is scotish. It means that most certainly we share the same of type of humour. I'm certain he understood the humour i injected in my post, which is there.
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I didn't had a problem with the 3D of CLASH OF THE TITANS as much as i did with AVATAR because thankfully CLASH was mercifully shorter, much shorter. It helped. Tireness didn't had enough to settle in. also, and this have helped a lot, i spend most of the movie laughing at how terrible the CLASH 3D was. Specially the floating hair! The floating hair was something else, it inhabited it's hown space seperated from the characters. It was surreal. At was as if i had taken acid or LSD or soemthing! It begged for a prog-rock soundtrack like Yes! So i guess my laughing at the bad 3D in CLASH helped alliviate the inevitable migrane i would get. It was still an uncomfortable experience, and i'm not even talking about the script and dialogues.
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Provide a quote from Nolan's replies where he even hints that he's superior to Scorsese and thinks the later is clueless and dumb. Show us where Nolan gives vent to his unlimited egomania, as you claim it. Really, i want to see direct evidence of this, instead of just what you think you saw of it. It seems to me the one who is inhabiting his own ass is not neither Nolan nor me. Can you prove me wrong with direct evidence from Nolan's own words? His words, not your opinion.
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Again, you are saying Nolan has no right to an opinion. Nolan DIDN'T say "I know better than Scorsese." He said "I don't like 3D." That in no way shape or form is EGO. Nolan didn't call out any other filmmaker or say he knows more than all, he simply gave his own opinion that 3D isn't very good. I guarantee you if someone told Nolan that Scorsese was going to make a 3D movie, he'd be all about seeing it. He just made the point he doesn't really like it and he'd never make one unless the studio absolutely pushed it. That is NOT EGO. I don't understand how you formulated that bullshit EGO thing. Nolan comes off as a talented respectful filmmaker who likes certain things, and not others. But by what you are saying, if Nolan disagrees with something Scorsese says, it's purely because of his horrible ego. I think Scorsese shouldn't have made Casino because it was just like Goodfellas but really annoying. But I don't think I know film better than Scorsese. That's just my opinion. I just don't get your, logic dude.
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I dont think Nolan came off as an egomaniac, just said his opinion on 3D. I won't say anything more LOL.
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There is no logic in what cloudrider has said, just a chip on his shoulder rant. Aparently, he gets terribly upset if anybody really agrees with Nolan. He must feel it's a personal insult to him or something. I don't usually call trolls to people who have disparate and offbeat opinions or go against what i think, but cloudrider tasks me.
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Feeding the troll and all that, hem?
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Not at all, I am just giving my opinion, and I honestly think he (Nolan) was just giving his opinion. I generally try NOT to make arguments worse, if anything I try to be a peacemaker.
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I read ya.
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I'm positive that the kid on the bike says "look around, the cops are into something, it's christmas, you could steal city hall" I understand that the kid might mean that its like xmas bcos there are no cops around and you could steal till your hearts content but it could also be meant literally, that it is xmas! what makes me think that it could be xmas is because in the following scene when McClane walks into the bank and talks to the bad guy at the desk, the bad guy asks McClane "what do you think of all this heat this late in the year"? If it was summer then summer is not late in the year is it. Xmas however is late in the year! So can you say for certain if DHWAV is set in the summer or at Xmas, bcos the evidence points to xmas, which would make sense as the first two were set at this time too. I understand your a fan of DHWAV Asimov and I didnt read your post in a negative sense, we all have diff opinions as Rouge pointed out.
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I know that the whole McClane revenge thing and the whole bombs and bomb in a school thing was just a decoy for the actual heist itself. but in my post i said why did Simon even bother getting McClane involved in proceedings. his whole plan to rob gold would have succeeded if he just set of the bombs in bonwetellers and the subway etc and then make known to the police and public about possible bombs in schools. why include McClane in any of this. all this would have worked perfectly without him in the mix and adding him to the equation just adds to the possibilities of him ruining your plans, as he does, and then kills you. do you see what I mean. The heist would have succeeded and Simon would have got away had he not involved a man they don't really give a shit about who killed a brother he didnt give a shit about, as you put it. It makes no sense.
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"but in my post i said why did Simon even bother getting McClane involved in proceedings....why include McClane in any of this."
Because it's a movie? -
thanks for clearing that up.
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Well, i can't say how New york is in wintertime, but i was there in sumemrtime, and i tell you, it's hot. Very fucking hot! As hot as it looks in the movie. From what i know, NYC is very cvold, in chrstmas time, so mcuh so there's no way to mistake it for summer. It even snows. So, no, you cna rest assured, the idea is that the story is set in SUMMERTIME, just like the song. So, yeah, the kids were being metaphorical. No two ways about it. The city in USA where christmas still reads like summer is Los Angeles because it's never cold there. Die Hard With Vengence happens in NYC. That is that. Hope to have been of help.As for the reason why Simon goes about pretending he's seeking revenge agaisnt McClaine is agian a case of deception of misdirection. The type of heist he was atempting could never go unnoticed, so, he needs to have the whole city and all the major justice agencies focued on something that would make Simon get his coast clear and do what he wanted. His pretending at revenge is a great deception, it obfuscates everybody, because of it's own plausability. Everybody took for granted that Simon, being Hans brother, would seek revenge. In reality, Simon couldn't give a fuck about his brother. He used his familair relationship to obsfuscates the autorities, including McClaine himself. It's quite clever, actually.You know what is one of the things i most enjoy about DIE HARD WITH A VENGENCE? It is that, unlike the first sequel THAT DOESN'T FUCKING EXIST, which was just repeating the basic surface backstage element, that it was an action movie set in a limited space, VENGENCE goes for the core of the story that DIE HARD told. While THE FUCKING SEQUEL THAT DOESN'T EXIST keep with the notion of actin in confined spaces, which wa snot even the real point of the story of DIE HARD, VENGENCE realises this little fact: the first movie was called DIE HARD. and why did the first movie was called DIE HARD, instead of LOTS OF ACTION SHIT HAPPENING IN TIGHT SPACES is because the main character, John McClaine, is a real die harder. The Earth and the Moon is thrown at him, adn he still comes back, he not put down easily at all. that's the whole point of DIE HARD, that he's relentless, he can't get put down no matter how much you try, he just keeps coming back. Thus, DIE HARD. THE FUCKING SEQUEL THAT DOESN'T EXIST didn't got this. they went for ACTION IN CONFINED SPACES. But DIE HARD WITH A VENGENCE knows that the very core of the story is John McClaine, the human coachroach that just doesn't get killed, that survives and keps coming back no matter what you throw at him. VENGENCE is about the character, as all god movies should. VENGENCE understands the very core of the franchise it belongs. The other TWO FUCKING SEQUELS THAT DON'T EXIST do not understand that.So, not only DIE HARD WITH A VENGENCE understands and gets the point of DIE HARD, but it's also even smart about it. Smart action movies, me likes them.
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About VALHALLA RISING, which we were talking about yesterday, today i ordered the DVD. Yeah, i bought the movie. Not rented, bought. I liked it that much. In fact i have watched it 3 times since i first saw it 3 days ago. Yuppers, me like it.And as for my post above, appologises for my many typos. I wrote it with a vengence, if you get my drift.
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good to hear your opinions on this, even if they differ somewhat from mine. I'm all out of Die hard talk now so let me ask you what you think of the upcoming Predators. are you a fan of the original arnold movie and its danny glover sequel. what are you hoping to see in the new one?
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I really like the first movie, it was the first John McTiernan movie i saw, and was an instant fan. As much so, that whenever i think of PREDATOR i don't think of it as "that Arnold movie" but "that McTiernan movie". I like it a lot.I enjoyed PREDATOR 2. It's not as good as the first, that's for sure. I like that they set the story in a city instead of repeatingthe jungle scenario of the first. Different jungle, you could say. I even liked the fact they didn't repeat any of the characters from the first movie, a nice touch there. Certainly Danny Glover helped sell the notion that he would be out of his depth dealing with the Predator creature, since hye is not the he-man that Arnold is. Made the character more vulnerable, and thus, helped the mood and tension and made him easier to root for.As for PREDATORS... well, you see, when i go watch a new movie, i just want to watcha good movie. Well made, with some smarts to it. I don't have any particular set of list of things to expect and things a movie should have and then tick the boxes. I know that's the usuala geek thing to do, but i don't partake in that type of expectations. i just want a good movie made by talented enough filmamkers who made the movie believing in what they were making, who treats the audiences as intelligent people and don't insult my intelligence with bullshit. Any movie that does that, i have a good time watching it, be they B-movies or major releases.So, what i expect from PREDATORS? A good movie, please. Am I having much good hopes in it? Not really. Ubnlike many her,e the name Robert Rodriguez doesn't put me into geekasm extasy. In fact, i find most of his movies underwhelming, all of them look like they are good starts for better things that never happened. And i have absolutly no idea what the director is capable of, so there's that. As for the actors, i have a motto: a good actor do not a good movie make. A good actor is not enough to make a movie good. It would be easier is that was so, but it isn't. There's that too, then. Basically, i'm skeptical. Much.
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Nighttime now, very late matter of fact, as JackGraham can confirm, since our both countries share the same meridian. See you guys tomorrow. Have a better one.
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I'm a big fan of Predator. I don't know any guy in my age group who doesnt love it/quote it/ etc. What a double whammy John McTeirnan had with this and Die Hard, a contender for the two best action films of the 80's. I'm very aware that the sequel gets a bad rap. I don't think it's as good as the 1st by a long stretch and it has moments that i wish were cut in editing such as the predator saying "motherfucker" followed by "shit happens" rather like a naughty schoolboy learning bad words for the first time. And the ending was really bizare. one minute he's in some old ladys bathroom, the next he's underground and in the predator ship, talk about the ship being in the right place at the right time. however despite its flaws i quite like it. it entertained me. i liked the shift from the jungle to LA. I liked the whole police/jamaicans/druglords war. I liked King Willie man. and i liked danny glovers fuck the rules attitude, and the fact that he was more of an everyman rather than a man mountain and a total 360 to roger murtaugh. but the original is one of my favourite films of the 80's and im hoping the new film can deliver something half as good. I've only seen one of Nimrod Antels films, the rather shit Vacancy, but my fingers are crossed.
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talk to you tommorow. by the way do you have a name or is it just AsimovLives?
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If he's going to do it (and he shouldn't be forced to use 3D at all if he doesn't want to), conversion is NOT the way to go. To do conversion right takes at least 6 months (far too long a time after production for a current release - no studio would wait for that), and it still will never look as good as something shot in native 3D. High quality conversion should only be used for prestige movies that weren't originally shot in 3D, like Star Wars and LOTR. From what I can see, Nolan's main issue with 3D is not that he doesn't like it, but that it is 'hard' or presents difficulties in filming. That is no excuse. Others can do it, so he should be able to as well.Also, this talkback is heading into lunatic territory. Cloudrider had some very good points, but there's no point in arguing with rabid fanboy zealots like The Dark Nolan, who is clearly so hungry to lick the sweat off the scrotum of his 'infallible' hero that he cannot proccess an alternative opinion. Nolan is not a deity; I'll visit the IMDB if I want to hear such rampant childish idiocy.
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"because one director says something on one particular subject that some viewers disagree with they should then boycott said director's whole film output?"Works for me about directors i really don't like, like Ron Howard, Robert Zemeckis and Mickey Bay. This is putting your money where your mouth is.
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...if you haven't already. Miller's take on Catwoman was miles away from Burton's. Miller's Catwoman is a streetwise dominatrix with a waifish sidekick that gets a taste for cat burglary. Miller - as per usual - crafted a sexy femme fatale that's sinister and dangerous, particularly to men. There was a hint of that in Burton's Catwoman, but Miller is the master of all fuckedupness in comics. I thought that Nolan had already discounted Penguin, however I liked the portrayal in the GN Broken City. Penguin was a nightclub owner (with those mobsterish backdoor shenanigans going on). He really was well placed as a nightclub owner. With the tux and all, suited him perfectly. "This is a classy joint..wah wah wah"
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Cloudrider has no point at all. He invented this weird notion that Nolan thinks hismelf better then, say, Scorsese, a director that Nolan never once mentioned. If there is one rabid person who made assuptions based on nothing but his own stuff that he pulled out of his own ass, that's cloudrider. cloudrider's argument,s if one could call that, are deceivious and nonsensical. What he did is a classical case of trolling. Try reading them again and you will notice of out of sense they are. He enver argues abotuwhat Nolan really said, but about what he perceived (if he honestly perceived them as such instead of just pure trolling).
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Year One is a nearly flawless comic, save for Catwoman. The idea of a dominatrix prostitute (yes, she is clearly a hooker in his comic) becoming this great thief is preposterous. How many hookers know Karate? How many hookers have studied cat-burglary and thievery long enough to elevate themselves to household status? I imagine you don't get much time to study and master those crafts when you are to busy lying on your back getting humped by a bunch of Johns.
Plus I will also add prostitutes are usually very f'd up and self-destructive people. The very reason they resort to prostitution is that they lack the ability to do anything else or even try. So where would Catwoman get the motivation to suddenly transform herself into this great thief? -
A hooker who doesn't want to rely on a john for protection?
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Interesting point, but you know, Miller's stuff kind of works in a fever dream sort of way. There are many prostitutes of the dominating kind that don't even have sexual contact with the johns; they talk dirty and kick them in the nuts or whatever. And a lot of these women are intelligent and enterprising. I can't generalise about hookers as I haven't met them all. It reminds me of that movie Thriller: They Call Her One Eye, a great little potboiler from Sweden. Christina Lindberg is a heroin addicted hooker who discretely learns karate and gunplay as part of a plan to take down her pimp and clients. And all with ONE EYE!! Cool movie. Oh and that red headed chick in CSI was a stripper. place
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She would rely on a pimp. I don't know if you read YEAR ONE, but in it she and Holly beat up the man who is implied to be their pimp.
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cant argue logic with a rabid fanboy. nolan apparently knows everything. and his ass smell nice too, that's why some people like living there.
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But I have met a lot. I used to work as the desk clerk at a really shitty massage parlor called Donna Lee's in Minneapolis before it got shut down, and when I first moved to LA I used to hang out at the Rock n' Roll Denny's on Sunset for people watching. Most of the people I watched were pimps and street walkers. None of those people seemed mentally healthy enough to get it together to become a great cat burglar. Prostitution is usually a crime of hunger.
And yes there are hookers who work as dominatrixes, but once again if that is their kick, how many of them go out and also master martial arts and cat burglary? It is just Miller playing with his weird obsession with tough hookers (which makes you wonder if hookers are so tough than why are they a favorite target of serial killers?).
I'm not ripping into you if you like it or buy it, but for me, personally, it just makes Catwoman implausible. The thing about Batman is he is a realistic hero, someone who had to actually bust his ass of for years to become the hero he is. To have some streetwalker/dominatrix come along and suddenly become his female counterpart with not nearly the same amount of effort or drive just makes it harder for me to buy the character.
I'm not saying she couldn't have ONCE BEEN a prostitute or dominatrix, but that was years ago. She needs time to develop, not go from the bedroom and the s&m clubs to being someone who gives Batman a challenge. -
BTW - that might be the most awkward subject line ever.
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@The Dark Nolan, of course he didnt say he knows better than scorsese. that'd be an idiotic and embarrassing thing to say in public. he just love saying 3d sucks IN PUBLIC.
again, many many a-list directors are 3d converts now. these guys are not a bunch of nobodies. these are the currently the cream of the crops in hollywood. the kings of kings of cinema. if they were not converts before, at least they have the humility to not attack 3d in public but instead pondering its potential and possibility. they all gave cameron the benefit of the doubt, and are willing to give this latest toy a try.
nolan did the opposite. he, like michael bay before him, just dismissed it in public. he's done this a few times now. and i'm sure he'll keep attacking it again at the next opportunity. why? why not learn more about the tech? why not give cameron's latest toy the benefit of the doubt like scorsese and the rest of those guys did? why keep mouthing off on the offensive?
let me tell you know why. 3d stole his imax's thunder, and now it's payback time. that's not humility. that's ego talk, plain to see.
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Yep, I can buy it. Lets find an uneasy treaty in the last sentence of your second last post. Nolan would not do a carbon copy of the Year One Catwoman, so he might make the types of changes to character you suggest. Are you asking me if I've read Year One? Yes, of course. It was a few years back though. But yeah, I kinda remember the pimp getting beaten up.
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If he read YEAR ONE. He had a comment about Johns.
And yes, I can go for an uneasy treaty. Like I said, I don't mind the idea she once was a prostitute. Catwoman to me is a lot like Batman - someone suffering from some sort of trauma in their life that shaped who they are. I could easily see that Catwoman was once an underage prostitute, abused, who learned some valuable life lessons: you can't trust anyone, you can only depend on yourself, and money makes the world go round.
My only problem with your suggestion for the YEAR ONE version of Catwoman was that she was a (strongly implied) streetwalker who suddenly becomes a woman who can match wits and abilities with Batman. I think you need at least a couple of years, if not more, for her to develop her skills and talents. -
But I stated in my post "The thing about Batman is he is a realistic hero, someone who had to actually bust his ass of for years to become the hero he is. "
I mean even his fake sidekick, Robin, has a rational for why he could possible fight crime - he was a child prodigy at acrobats. There was a reason why the original writers went to such lengths - to make it plausible, even when dealing with something as preposterous as a child sidekick.
If we are just going to say it is just a comic book, why even have Bruce Wayne leave Gotham to train as Batman? It can't be that hard to learn the skills to take on the mob, right? -
Forgive my ignoranc,e but what exactly is the differenc ebetween a john and a pimp. I though it mean tthe same, different words for same meaning, but being portugese myself, i might have failed to see the difference.
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Have you considered starting a career in FUCK OFF? Mommy and daddy when they educated you, they missed the part about politeness costing nothing? Fucking ass! How about you rephrase your above post, but this time writen in english instead of assholeness? Thank you.
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i once got this close to buy it, though. It had writen in the cover "From the author of THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS", a comic which me and my pals loved reading back in the day. But for some reason, fate made me never get the oportunity to buy it.
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how are you today.
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... what happened to Frank Miller? He used to be a pretty good, inventive comic writer. and nowdays... it's like, is he mad or something? What happened to the dude?
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Not too bad. And how are you, my caledonian friend?If i'm not mistaken, CENTURION was released there recently, wasn't it? I' d like to watch that, it's a Neil Marshall movie, and so far i have liked all of them, even the much maligned DOOMSDAY. And i love, love, love THE DESCENT.
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... they cast an ukranian hottie, Olga Kurielenko, to play a pictish amazon. Not that i'm complaining, i think she is hot beyond belief, but it's funy they went for an ukranian to play a pictish, which bakc then lived in what is today's Scotland. Well, i think she plays a pictish, i'm not sure if the Picts already lived there back in the time of the roman occupation, of they came after.
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Jun 17, 2010 11:11:24 AM CDT
N. Marshall is another director i usually agree with what he say
by asimovlives
Cue people calling me a motherfucker who have my head up a filmmaker's ass. Aparenrly, in today's geedom, the only viable director for you to agree with is Martin Scorsese. If you agree with anybody else, you are a cocksucker motherfucker. Specially Christopher Nolan about 3D. God forbids! Nolan the fucking heretic!And never forget, to be a true geek, you have to be a complete bitch to Jar Jar Abrams and offer your ass to him. If you are not Jar Jar Abrams's bitch, you are not a geek.
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Jun 17, 2010 11:11:30 AM CDT
N. Marshall is another director i usually agree with what he say
by asimovlives
Cue people calling me a motherfucker who have my head up a filmmaker's ass. Aparenrly, in today's geekdom, the only viable director for you to agree with is Martin Scorsese. If you agree with anybody else, you are a cocksucker motherfucker. Specially Christopher Nolan about 3D. God forbids! Nolan the fucking heretic!And never forget, to be a true geek, you have to be a complete bitch to Jar Jar Abrams and offer your ass to him. If you are not Jar Jar Abrams's bitch, you are not a geek.
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Indeed Centurion was released here a month ago but I Never got the chance to see it so i'm awaiting its arrival on dvd. Yes Olga from Quantum of solace plays a pict, a mute pict if i'm not mistaken. I too love The Descent, recently watched Descent Part 2, and i thought it was ok, The Predator 2 of Descent movies. Could have been alot worse but wanted it to be alot better. Havnt seen Doomsday yet. I'm a bit behind arn't I. My weekend involves watching 1st time views of Drugstore Cowboy and 44 inch chest and 5th time view of The Prestige, which I like watching every so often to unravel its brilliance. How old are you Asimov out of curiosity and do you have a name?
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we're all mature here .... right?
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Jun 17, 2010 11:22:24 AM CDT
Crikey, just read some of the posts and I take it back ...
by jackgraham
they have called you that! Don't get involved in riff raff personally. whats the point in arguing with someone you have never even met. it's pointless. healthy debate, good, verbal abuse, bad.
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My real first name is Carlos, i was born in 1971 in my homecity of Almada, where i still live, and i'm 39 years old.
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Well hello Carlos. Nice to make your aquaintance in a more personal level. I'm glad you told me your age at the end of your post. I never would have guessed it by date of birth alone ;) i must admit i assumed you were younger than 39, that is a suprise. i am 30 and my name is Ewan McGregor .... :) ok maybe not, it's actually Jack Graham, my username. What do you in Alamada Carlos. You married, kids?
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has anyone seen Deathwatch, one of Ewans earliest films in the 90's. What a terrible American accent Ewan has in that. the man can't do American accents to save his life, except maybe the over the top easyness of his accent in Big Fish, which was basically Forrest Gump speak. I'm not a big fan of Ewan, his output has been mostly shit since the 90's and he's a bit of a sell out in recent times. he admitted to hating dumb blockbusters of the likes of Armageddon yet appears in The Island. I still don't think he's forgived Danny Boyle for not sticking with him for The beach.
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.. completely unfunny beyond the first 5 minutes. I'm actually a fan of Ricky Gervais, love the office U.K and Extras but both Ghost Town and Invention of Lying were bloody terrible, especially Invention, which had a fairly good idea albeit a one joke idea, but was so unfunny. i almost walked out it was that bad.
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Nice meeting you too, Jack.Well, my job is, i'm a court clerk. I'm still single. As i use to say to my relatives when they ask me when i'll get marrie,d my reply is "i'm too young for that yet". And i am, in my head. At heart i'm still a kid.I liek Ewan McGreggor as an actor, though it seems that today he lost a bit of the sparkle he had in his early part of his career. Maybe it was his alchoolism that left him dried up. And his decision to be in THE ISLAND was one of the biggest blunders of his career. It hurted his reputation, and the fucking movie even flopped at the box office. He did make out with a then 20 years old Scarlett Jonahsson, so it wans't all bad.I can't tell for sure if Ewan does accurate accents or not. Since i'm not a native english speaking person, i can't tell the acuracy of the accents. Hell, i even have problem sepearing the scotish from the welsh accent. I know this must be risible for you, but from an outside perspective, all i can figure out is that the welsh have a tendency to turn every each consoant into an F sounding word. But i tell you, put two scotsman, one from Ediburgh and another from Glasgow, and i wouldn't be none the wiser.
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Good to get to know you. I can tell you are passionate about film also. You know alot more about 3d than myself. I don't actually know enough about 3d to have a strong opinion on it. I have only seen a handful of films in 3d, the most recent being Avatar, but before this probably Jaws 3D and one of the Friday the 13th movies from the 80's. I liked Avatar in 3D however I wasn't wowed by it's format. It seemed that the use of 3D in that movie was quite subtle. I kept lowering my 3D glasses to see the difference, i'm just not used to seeing a film in 3D, i havnt seen any of the recent crop of 3D films but for me it's all about the quality of the film regardless of its format. I've heard that Clash of the titans was rushed into 3D post production and i dont agree with that. I think a director needs to know b4 a single shot is filmed whether its a 3D movie or a 2D movie. When you start making huge decisions like this after the film is shot it's like the director doesnt know where their sensibilities lie therfore i immediately do not trust or respect them wholeheartedly. Its like filming a movie and then deciding afterwards if its gonna be in colour or black and white. pre production is for making these important decisions.
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Someone that's all powerful is not really fun or interesting to watch. Outside of the origin story of the first movie, what else is there to say, really?
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how did you come up with your username out of curiosity? it's a unique one. Regarding Superman it's true that certain elements such as threat and danger for a virtual invulnerbale man seem non existent. I always found it funny that Superman looked hurt and expressed pain if something like a rocket hit him in certain superman movies yet kryptonite is meant to be the only thing that can hurt him. But i'm sure/hope that Nolan and his writers will come up with something that takes full advantage of his weaknesses, emotionally and physically. I'm sure that these people responsible for making a new Superman movie realise as we do that Superman can be deemed "boring" because of his abilities and his impenetrable nature but i'm sure and i hope that they are smart enough to penetrate his weaknesses and exploit the notion that he is impenetrable. otherwise there will be no tension which equals redundant movie really.
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As far as I'm aware there are at least two versions of Superman 3 out there. One version opens without the usual Superman theme and instead has an annoying silly 3 stooges style soundtrack playing over the annoying silly 3 stooges style opening. The other version, which I own, begins with the Superman Theme and the usual space, flying titles like the 1st and 2nd. I mention this because the Superman theme from Superman 3 that plays at the beggining of my version is a fantastic version of the John Williams theme orchestrated by Ken thorne. heres a link to it and the main difference from this score to john williams score is the following .... 0.09 to 0.16 ... 0.19 to 0.23 ...
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the 80's called Cocktail. It was about a bartender and his older mentor was a drunk named Coughlin who would come up with a list of stupid life lessons to be a successful bartender and he called them Coughlin's Laws. The movie is VERY 80's but when I was younger and a bartender, it was a fun movie to watch. Anyway, when I first came to this site, I saw all these screen names with obscure movie references so I tried to come up with one. Unfortunately, there used to be a guy on here that went by Brundlefly, so I couldn't take that. I just thought of it on the spot when I was signing up and am now stuck with it...
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heres that link .... and this is the geekiest thing ive ever commented on. my geek credentials need not be disputed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=641bXiqO_kw -
Jun 17, 2010 2:01:43 PM CDT
Anyway, as far as Superman being boring, it's the same
by coughlins laws
reason I can't watch a Friday the 13th movie, or Halloween, or any movie where the bad guy is invincible. It takes away any tension if you don't think Superman can be stopped. Only one thing can stop him, Kryptonite, and how often can they come up with unique ways to expose him to it? I even had a problem with the movie No Country For Old Men because of the Chigurh(sp?) character. He seemed inhuman and indestructable. He couldn't be stopped. And the way he was, why would anyone ever hire him if he just kills his employers? And why isn't he already super-rich? If he's so willing to kill everyone just like that, surely he'd be a multi-millionaire at that point and wouldn't need to go on that wild goose chase. I know most Cohen Brother movies are half real world/half surreal, but I just couldn't buy it. It was a great movie, lots of tension, till the last 20 minutes where it fell apart for me. I guess if that's what's in the book, that's what's in the book. But I'm long past the age where I can really get into a story where the characters are invulnerable...
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I thought your name sounded familar. I've seen cocktail many times. a guilty pleasure of mine. It came out around the same time as Rain Man. i remeber it being a small hit for Cruise at the time. I love the line .... Customer " I martini!!!" ... Tom Cruise "what's in that"!!
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Nolan spoke about the 3D in very technological terms, I think he knows exactly what it entails as he describes it in this very article. 3D has NOT stolen the IMAX thunder, IMAX will still continue to be a huge draw for viewers. I doubt Nolan is all that concerned with that. And one last time, you are then stating that when Nolan is asked in public about 3D, he should either lie and say "it's awesome," or say "no comment." Because as you said above, by saying he doesn't like it in public, then that "obviously" means he hates 3D because it stole his IMAX thunder and it disrespects the other directors who are trying it out, thereby showing his EGO. Which means according to you Nolan can't have an opinion on the subject. Still, a lot of presumptions on your part. What you're saying is kind of like saying because Nolan decided to make Batman Begins, clearly he hates Tim Burton and thinks that Burton is far inferior to himself. That's a pretty big presumption. Your theory is forced more than "Avatar's" storyline.
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why got all nicey and sweet when you could always stoop to his level when talking to him? *shrugs*
what asimov meant was if you dare to critize one director you shouldnt watch him/her films again, for like, forever. now, i recall he badmouthed zemeckis, spielberg, jackson, etc in one of his reply to me above. if he's really all about "putting your money where your mouth is" he will never ever watch those guys films ever again. riiiight... that will happen.
and yes, apparently he also think 3d is useless because it gives him headache. i think we should ban books altogether now because books give babies headache. or maybe we should ban cars too because, you know, mentally handicapped people can't drive them. great with logic, that guy. but dont worry, i know he knows he's being stupid. he just has too much ego to admit his stupidity, just like his idol nolan. -
if he knows what he's talking about then he would know conversion 3d is not better than shooting it in 3d, which is what he said. just because he talked in technological terms doesnt mean he knows what he's talking. that just means he SOUNDS like he knows what he's talking about to you, clueless geeks.
like i said, he can have his opinion, sure sure. and i can have my opinion that cameron knows better than nolan when it comes to 3d. those a-list directors i mentioned have the courtesy to be curious about the new tech, to be excited with its potential. nolan dismissed it outright. that's not the attitude of someone with the wisdom of foresight. that's the attitude of someone with a bruised ego. just read his condescending remarks. he talked about 3d making things to go "worse" than before. he said he wont do 3d unless the studio and public demand it. riiight.. if he ends up doing it, it's because HE'S FORCED TO. like the studio can force him to do anything he doesnt want at this point, that snob.
lots of directors have been asked publicly about what they thought about 3d. only michael bay and nolan share the same disdain. ponder that.
nolan: 'imax is still BETTER! 3d sucks! listen to me! LISTEN TO MEEEEEE!!!' meanwhile everyone else is going 3d, including bay. yeah, sucks to be the only one who thinks he's right. -
JackGraham: I don't know much about3D mroe then most here. What i know is my personal experience about watching a movie that was longer then two hours, and i found it taxing. 3D is not helping me having more fun at the cinema, it is helping me have less fun. Migranes and eyeache are not fun.And indeed you are right, most of the time Cameron was quite subtle in the use of the 3D. with one single exception, he never resorted to the usual "poking things at the camera" trickery that many filmamkers using 3D do. Ther worst offender in that regard, as far i can tell, was Robert Zemeckis and his stupid retard disastrous Beowulf piece of shit movie. Everythign about that movie was a epic failure, starting with the use of 3D.By the way, in case you are still looming around here, do you have an hotmail account? We could continue our chats in MSN. By far you are the most interesting and friendly chap i have meet in here for quite some time. The fact you are a scot helps too. I feel a natural sympathy for your people. See ya.Ace of Wands: OK, thanks for resorting to normal cordiality, it becames you. Thank you. As for what Nolan says, well, it just so happens that so far i have agreed with everythignhe has to say about filmmaking and 3D in general. It just so happens so. I guess this is why youhave certain filmmakers which are your favotires, as oposed to others whom you always disagree with and thus they are not your favorite at all. You know what i mean? Everythign that Nolans says rings true to me. And i have liked a lot every movie he has made so far. So, my appraisal and admiration for Nolan cames form tha,t that i like his movies so much and that he sounds smart and informed in his interviews. It cames form that. likewise, i deetest some filmmaker,s retards like Michael Bay and Jar Jar Abrams, because they make shitty retard dumbed down finantical-motivated-only movies and everytime they open their mouth to speak they say anoying platittudes, in the case of Bay incredible childish idioticies and in the case of Jar Jar the most oily used cars salesman pitch sales talk imaginable. So that's how it is.And really it that so fantastic to conceive the notion that you can happen to agree with most or so far all of what a filmmaker has said? Is there no filmmaker out there you can revise yourself in, who seems to make movie which are perfect for you? I have a few (Kubrick, Nolan, Ridley Scott to a point, Neil Marshall so far). And you, you have none? The concept is alien to you?
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For an english speaking native, you have a terrible understanding of the writen word. And The Dark Nolan caugh you right. You made a bullshit nonsense deduction on nolan based on nothing at all he said, you just pulled shit out of your own ass. The Dark Nolan called you out on that. Truly, i rarely, rarely call people this just because they disagree with me, but in your case, it's special, in your case it's true: you are a troll. Keep trolling, dude, for our amusement. Keep inventing shit that's only in your head.
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A round of applauses to you, sir. Good job, well done.
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I feel imax provided the type of imagery spectacle that 3D is supposed to deliver. Imax images for me feel very real life-like, like i'm there. 3D only seems, for me, to make movies look like they are a sucession of cardboards placed at different distances like those maquettes i used to make and play with when i was a kid. For me, the irony of 3d is that makes the movies look more theatrical, instead of natural. Imax, on the contrary, makes me feel like i watching an expantion of the possibilities of cinema, zas if i'm watching more cinema, if you know what i mean. The only problem i ever got with imax so far was motionsickness but caused by a show which was totally CGI animation. And this was 2000 CGI that didn't even tried to look naturalistic. It was even wrost then Tron in it's artificiallity, and the iamge movement was too brusque and suddent, and caused me motion sickness. But imax images from shooting real life elements never caused me motionsickness, quite the contray, it always enthralled me.I guess i'm mroe of a imax guy then a 3D guy. But i never saw 3D in imax, so who know, maybe i could be sold on 3D is i watched it in imax? Who knows? Or maybe i would get an even worst migrane.
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Where this extreme reaction in defense of 3D cames from, anyway? The 3D defenders, like cloudrider, are all sounding like religious fanatics who are eyeboggling furious because anyone dared not to sing it's glories! The people who are skeptical of 3D ar ethe new heretics, so it seems. Their extreme reactions makes me recall the same thing that happen when the Gays For JayJay got all fucked up when they discovered there was people who didn't liked JarJar Abrams's SHIT TREK and went jihad on them. Now it's the 3D supporters going jihad on those who are not much enthusiastic about the 3D, be they geeks or filmmakers. And nwo they are pulling the usual creationist bulslhit, inventing arguments out of their own asses and distorting other's words for their own agenda. This shit is just weird.What cloudrider did with what Nolan said reminds me one of the oldest tactics used by the creationists intheir "argumention" agaisnt evolution or atheist scientist,s that Darwin renounced evolution in his deathbead, and that Einstein and Carl Sagan accepted Jesus Christ as their savior in their last moments. All complete bullshit pulled out of their asses, all trickery and invented nonsense to advance their agenda. cloudrider is just doing the same, pretenting there is something in Nolan's replies which is not there, and shouting about it long enough so it gets accepted unquestionably. Well, if that shit worked in the middle ages, why not now too, hem?
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i offered my legit points, you offered insults and distraction. anybody can read what nolan said. everything i said he said, he did say them. i dont have to make up any bullshit. bullshit is what you've kept making up to distact from the topic of discussion.
i'm not a native english speaker. but dont worry, my english is better than yours. obviously.
and again with the migrane. sigh... colorblind people wont enjoy color films as well. dont mean all color films suck. keep repeating your stupid rationale wont make your rationale any less stupid, it'll only make you look dumber. -
nolan said his piece about 3d. i think he's wrong. i think he spoke out of a bruised ego, and not knowledge. the extreme reaction came from you because you cant stand your idol being called on. it's always the rabid fanboys who are the extremist. they can only see things from one side, which is through the hairy ass of their idol.
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exhibit A:
his endless rabid attack of jj's star trek.
case closed. -
Yes there is a “hyper-realism’, but there is also plausibility. Is it within the realm of reason that Selina could know karate while being a prostitute? Maybe, but it is very “implausible” IMO. Maybe I am being pedantic, but I just find the character of Selina Kyle that Miller presented to be incongruent: Four things go through my mind:
1) Prostitute Selina Kyle IS NOT that great at martial arts and only somewhat agile. If this is the case I find it hard to believe that she would become one of Batman’s greatest foes because she is no match for him.
2) Prostitute Selina Kyle IS great at martial arts and is a skilled thief. If this is the case than why didn’t she leave the profession years ago when she first became competent as a thief?
Even if she is only halfway decent at first, I imagine she would have gone to try her luck at thievery years earlier before she had actually mastered what she is doing.
3) Selina Kyle ENJOYS being a prostitute despite being also good at martial arts and thievery. This just seems preposterous to me (and offensive) because if she enjoyed being a prostitute why would she ever learn another trade like cat burglary, and also why would she punch her pimp and leave it if she enjoyed what she was doing?
4) Like you said, they don’t tell us everything. But one thing Batman comics do is IMPLY things. They might not tell us exactly what and how Batman trained, but they do say that after his parents died he went on to push himself to peak condition, and master science, fighting and even disguise (Detective Comics #33, November 1939). So while they don’t explicitly say what he trained in, they do say he has been training himself since his parents died to wage war on crime.
The problem with having Selina Kyle as a prostitute is that it undermines my belief that she could possibly take on or even cause any problems for such a focused person as Batman. Sure you can say she knows karate and maybe a little thievery, but it makes it hard to buy that she would have mastered either one of those skills if she is also plying her trade as a streetwalker. And you are saying she is not a master in either martial arts or cat burglary, than what kind of criminal and member of Batman’s rogue gallery is she? Batman’s foes should be the best at what they do, like he is.
When you reduce Catwoman a fetish character, you reduce Batman IMO.
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A "John" is slang for a customer.
A "Pimp" is an agent/manager of prostitutes who lives off their earnings.
A John gives hos money, a pimp takes it. -
Has he been in boring stories the last couple of decades? Hell yes, but the character himself is far from boring, just someone who is never really shown in a different light.
Sherlock Holmes, James Bond and Dr. Octopus have all been called boring, but I think we have seen in the last decade all of them presented in interesting ways. And Dracula and vampires are another unstoppable, nigh-invulnerable beings (holy symbols, sunlight and stakes through the heart sound a lot like kryptonite, red solar radiation and magic to me) who has been reinvented time and time again as something interesting and new. -
Was originally supposed to be Bizarro, but some sort of legal issues popped up.
And I believe that Superman was originally going to be Luthor and Brainiac, but when Hackman refused to be in it and they got Pryor they made that monstrosity. -
I agree that Miller can write a hell of a Batman story (or at least used to be able to -ASBMAR and TDKSA might prove he has lost his Batman touch), but I will say I have always found flaws in many of his female character (Just because a whore is tough doesn't mean still isn't a whore or an exploitive character).
But the problem with what you said about how YEAR ONE is about Catwoman not yet a great Batman foe but becoming one is we were discussing her potential as a character that could be adapted into the next Batman movie. Yes, the one from Year One might someday become the one that truly challenges Batman, but you can't expect audiences to wait that long. If you are going to put Catwoman in the next Batman movie than I imagine that she has to be further along in her skills and abilities than Selina Kyle is in YEAR ONE, and for her to be that I can't imagine that she is a hooker when the movie starts (of course I doubt she would be a hooker just because it would hurt the family rating - kind of like how Sherlock Holmes got rid of any mention of his cocaine use). -
i don't use MSN, but i'm more than happy to swap email addresses. i don't really want to give it out on here though, any suggestions? i see on the above posts you've been having "healthy debate" again.
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Have been busy for a bit, no chance to come to this TB and see what was going on. Hows it going fellas? Jack, Asi, Cloud, Ace, 'lop....hope all is well with you gents.Watched Daybreakers last night, quite enjoyed it, better than I expected it to be...any of you guys see it?You know when it comes to 3D, my view is this....should be used to enhance a movie, ala Avatar, which IMO, it did, made it a richer experience. I think 3D conversions should just not be done, period. It never looks good, and it almost feels as if you are trying to draw attention away from the fact that your movie is not all that good, so you converted it to 3D to get people to see it. That's what 3D conversions say to me. Sure 3D today is better than it ever was if done right, but god I am getting so tired of seeing "Coming soon in 3D" in almost every movie trailer.
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Do what I do, make a dummy email address for when you don't want to use your real one. It works. I use it for signing up for stuff as well. Less spam in my real inbox.
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Bullshit, you offered nothing but insults and presumptions based on nothing but nonsense you invented yourself. Many already have pointed that out. The only thing i insulted was your intelligence, whihc you ar enot showing much here. So there. You are a troll indeed. -congratalations, it's not everybody that makes me call one such. you are an exceptional exception. A round of applause to our friend cloudrider. God job, well done.
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Right! Thanks a lot for enlighting me on that, friend. Now i know.
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Allow me to put a cent or two about the conversation you are having with Ace Of Hands about Seline Kyle. Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that Seline started as a whore. A child from a dammaged white trash family, where whoring was a common "job" in the female of the family. Very soon in her childhood, she gained a huge interest in jewlry, and he equates robbing from others, specially the rich and from musseams, as a way to get back to her life what life and society took away from her, as she sees it. The rich because they depredate on the poor to get whores where they can get kinky with, and with little fear of sufering consequences. and musseaums represent society at large. As a teen, Seline whore herself, for monetary advantage, so she would finance her future trade of highly especialized thief, while also learning martial arts and be highly effective at that. Her whoring days to finance her thieving days.
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Humm, i will have to think this through. And yes, the unhelaty debate with the troll is still going. I particulary love his cheap shot at my coments about Jar Jar Abrams and his last shitty movie he made. Because i never ever bothered to expalin exactly why i have my opinion of him and his movie. Yeah, right! My coments are always what's in the movies. Clourider, however is far more creative then me, he invents his own shit. One got to admire his more creative approach. It's Troll Nouveau.
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The fun never stops. Now in 3D!
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Ha ha ha good one dude. BTW did you see Daybreakers?
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Indeed i saw. And i really liked it. While it's not a GEREAT MOVIE, i found it very inventive, very well though out, and very well made. I really have a soft spot for this Spierig Brothers guys, i'm one of the fools who actually enjoyed their first feature lenght movie, UNDEAD. I also watched a short movie they made before that, called "The Big Picture", and it's very good. It's about a woman who refuses a date with this very nice guy, and when she turns her TV, the channels show their future life together as a married couple and how happy they will be, each channel a 5-10 years into the future time. The twist in the story is that she thinks she is seeing her future with the guy, but in fact she was watching scenes from a paralel universe where she accepted the date invitation. The universe she lives in has a very different fate waiting for her. Good stuff, check it out.An americna online friend of mine i chat a lot wiht, he compared DAYBREAKERS to a modern day John Carpenter movie. and i agree with him, the movie does look like something Carpenter would had done back in his earlier days. There's a real John Carpenter vibe to that movie.The movie also proved to me my opinion that Michael Bay just can't and doesn't know how to shoot beautiful woman, and how he constantly misused them in his eternal quest to turn every pretty actress in Hollywood into looking like a junkie white trash whore. Isabel Lucas is also in DAYBREAKERS, and she is far prettier and the Spierig Brothers used better her true natural beauty in their movie, then that whore version of her that Bay used in his latest abomination. Lucas has a natural girl-next door beauty to her that the spierig Brothers utilized very well for their movie. Bay just whored her up. What a fucking loser! I'm not suprised two newbies in the movie business can teach Bay how to film a movie, though.
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That could work but I do have some issue with it:
1) Yes, I imagine she could have been a prostitute to finance her thieving, but if that is the case she would probably be a high priced call girl instead of a street walker. Selina is undoubtedly beautiful so she could make a lot more as a Call Girl than a street walker, it would require less time (Call Girl is by appointment set up by an agency, Street Walker is a time consuming job because you have to work the tracks - it's like being a desk clerk).
2) I also don't think she would stay a street walker for long because it is a waste of her time. Besides being more time consuming it would also not teach her anything valuable that she could carry over to her new profession.
In BB they show Batman giving up his money an identity for seven or eight years so he can learn how to be and think like a criminal. To give him on the street experience that a rich boy like him never would have, and give him what cops call "street eyes."
"Selina needs the opposite - she is probably born poor but she needs to be able to think and blend in with rich people. Think like them because she has to know where they would keep there valuables, what do they own that is actually valuable, judge if this is the type of person who would own jewelry, money or have anything worth stealing at all at home, etc. She also has to be able to blend in because she needs to be able to scout of potential marks and do reconnaissance (probably by going to parties and clubs. Those are not skills you develop in street walking but you might develop as a high priced escort (how to dress, how to act at fancy restaurants, what wines to order, how to talk about business or subjects the client finds interesting).
3) Even if she used the money she made from being a high priced call girl or escort to help her start off as a thief, I can’t imagine she still would be a prostitute of any sort by the beginning of a Batman film. If she was any good, she would not have resorted to prostitution or keep resorting to it to survive. And she must be a great thief if she is to be any sort of worthy foe (or even love interest). Prostitution would have just been an means to an end, and a short term one, because obviously she must hate that life if she is willing to try something much riskier (burglary).
4) Finally, I don’t mind the idea of Selina Kyle having once been a prostitute because it adds a trauma to her life, much like Bruce Wayne had trauma in his life. My only problem with the prostitution angle is the idea that she was a prostitute up until she met Batman and that she somehow studied karate while being a street walker. I just find it hard to believe she would have developed the skills to be Catwoman if she was still a prostitute and that if she did learn martial arts and/or some thievery while a prostitute, than was she still one and how did she get the time or even the inclination?
Not to get to serious or over analyzing, but if you ever watch any documentary or cop show where they pick up street walkers, they hardly seem like the type of people to be studying karate and gymnastics. Self discipline and self confidence are not traits associated with Street Walkers. Sure you can argue that they can be the exception and that you don’t see billionaire playboys putting on a batsuit and fighting crime, but what makes Batman go against the norm is that he had such a traumatic experience. Well, I see prostitution as Selina Kyle’s traumatic experience that taught her that you have to steal to live, so why would she keep doing that if that is what motivated her to became Catwoman so she could leave that life? And if it isn’t the traumatic experience, than why would Selina Kyle do something that is so damaging and so little reward? She has a very good chance of being attacked, raped, killed, arrested and for very little money being a street walker, she might as well just take the risk and be a thief right now instead of waiting. That is how I see it at any rate.
One thing I have learned from all this is only one woman can play Catwoman - Sasha Grey. -
Sasha Grey...really? I did not see The G/F Experience, I have just seen her in her...ummmm...other films....and yea she is pretty hot, but I cant speak of her acting ability, so I don't know. but if Nolan were to cast her, I would trust that he knows what he is doing.
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I too enjoyed Daybreakers very much, an interesting take on vampires, and I like the way the movie looked and the whole vampire society, how the world changed to suit it's now dominant species. Also, agreed that it kinda has the feel of a John Carpenter film. I will try to check out the other films made by these guys, I am impressed.
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"I imagine she could have been a prostitute to finance her thieving, but if that is the case she would probably be a high priced call girl instead of a street walker"Agree. she couldhad started small-time, but her very good looks would made her a high class call girl fast. and as you said, it would pay better for less time on the job, thus, more time on her own for her other projects."I also don't think she would stay a street walker for long"Absolutly. Completly agree with you on that."In BB they show Batman giving up his money an identity for seven or eight years so he can learn how to be and think like a criminal. To give him on the street experience that a rich boy like him never would have, and give him what cops call "street eyes." Selina needs the opposite"'You really understood the point of my post. Selina as an opposite of Wayne but essencially doing the same trajectory, in reverse. This is why i think it's possible to create Selina Kyle as both an euqal to Wayne but at the same time his opposite. And what is it they say about opposites attracting?Also because of that, and that she lives a whole life in duplicity, she would be the first character to figure out pretty fast and early on the masquarade that is Bruce Wayne the playboy.Remember when in Batman Begins Rachael Dawes tells Wayne "it's not what one is inside that counts, but what he does"? Seline, living a life acting on deceptions, she would think that it's not what one does that counts, but what is inside. As such, she coudl catch up on Wayne's dupliciousness, and be sympathetic to him in a way the more straight arrow Rachael Dawes could never."Even if she used the money she made from being a high priced call girl or escort to help her start off as a thief, I can’t imagine she still would be a prostitute of any sort by the beginning of a Batman film"Nor do I. I even though up an alternative to that. Her whoring would be her "dammaged past". Today, at the begining of the Batman movie, she would be working for the DA and an intern. Why? INSIDE INTEL. And she could also throw a wrench to the proceadings involved in the investigation and atempt at appreention of Catwoman. She would aslo use her "dammaged past" to get browning points", to play the weeping Mary Magdalena, the repented prostitude who is now a paradong of virtuous civic duty and the victory of human spirit and decency over immorality and corruption. She could evne use her call girl days to embarace and/or gain favours some important figures in Gotham, including people in the judiciary system. She could evne feign a cloeness with Jim Gordon, pretending it was his kindness as a cop that helped her get away from her former life and turn the path of rightousness."than why would Selina Kyle do something that is so damaging and so little reward?"You again raise a very good point, and i have a very comic book reply for that: free training sessions. You know how in DEATH WISH the Charles Bronson character used himself as bait to atterack robbers and muggers, so he could execute them? Similiar thing, Seline would play up the defendless weakly girl, so that she could attract some lowlifes,a nd then she would use the oportunity to put to use her karate-kung fu training and some krav-magra (or whatever it's called). Basically, pulling a Buffy. Of cours,e this would had been during her earlier years.I think it's too precious to assume that all prostitutes are this damamged junkies with little to not personality of their own who were forced into prostitution by force of curcunstances beside their control. But it's not always so. Sometimes prostitution is a deliberate choice, and i'm not even talking highclass prostitution like call girls. And if you think about it, to turn yourself into prostitution can also require a bit of strengh of will. Many people think it's easy to fall into prostitution, that it's an easy job, but i'm not so sure it is. Consider the though, how easy it would be for you to sell your ass and go suck dicks for money? Because, frankly, that's one of the least appealing thoughs that can ever crosses my mind. You know what i mean. Maybe prostitution could have taugh Seline Kyle a form of self-control and cold professional detatchment.
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UNDEAD is remarkable as a victory of talent over budget. What those guys did on the budget of a breakfast is quite amazing. I'm still suprised they mannaged what they did, with the scope the movie has, on one million AUSTRALIAN dollars! This guys are experts in stretchign the buck for their bang. They are, in fact, the anti-Bay.THE BIG PICTURE is a short movie so i guess it has a limited availability. I watched it on the telly. Maybe you can download it somewhere.One of my favorite images from DAYBREAKERS was that shot of what appears to be this little children smoking at a posh bar. Of cours,e since they are vampyres, chances are this are full adults still in the bodies of children because they do not age since they turned vampyres. Cool image, and pretty unsettling as well. And is also helps build the world and follow the logical conclusion of such a world.And i loved the Vamp-Car. I want one! Coolest car in recent movies after THE TUMBLER.
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You guys are blowing my mind with all of this Catwoman & life philosophy shit LOL. Very interesting reading fellas.
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Vamp car was way cool, and an interesting and actually good idea, I could see something like that being made sometime in the future, maybe even closer than we think.
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This is why no matter what divergences i might have with Conti, i still respect the hell out of the guy. Intelligence is the thing i most respect. Which is why for me scientists are my rock stars, followed by very good artists and filmmakers.
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The cool thing about the vamp car is that it was made from a really good american car. As an european, my idea about arican cars is li,e the prevaling idea, which is, americans can't make cars. But the Chrysler used in the movie is a really good car. It's a Chrysler 300, and it's a really very good looking car. With it's gangster car looks and impiosing retro looks, it's such a good looking car that it's even sold in Europe. Even in my homecity i mannage to see one or two once in a while. They are very well build, and while they might not have the same high standards as found in a Mercedes Class S, BMW series 7, Jaguar XJ or an Audi 8, they are still very well made enough to be sold in here and be deemed worthy cars on the luxury segment. They were degiend and made for the first time when Chrysler and Mercedes were a joint group, and it shows in the cars construction and material quality. And again, the looks, man, the looks. David Cronenberg, a major car freak, couldn't resist just having one in his movie A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE, to good effect. I tell you, if i lived in USA and i could afford one, that would be my car. I'd rather that then a muscle car. Besides, the top engine Chrysler 300 is more powerful and runs farter then most muscle cars, and with the added bonus that they can turn corners! Actually it's the fact that the Chrysler 300 CAN TURN CORNERS that made it good enough to be sold here. For anyone who lives in Europe or visited here and has driven in here knows, being able to turn corners is a fundamental adn vital characteristic for a car.
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"my idea about arican cars is li,e" = "my idea about american cars is like"
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Don't worry. I was joking.
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I agree with pretty much every thing you wrote except for a few points where I have either offered a counter idea or expanded on it. Feel free to agree or diagree.
“Also because of that, and that she lives a whole life in duplicity, she would be the first character to figure out pretty fast and early on the masquarade that is Bruce Wayne the playboy.”
I actually think she wouldn’t be the first person to figure it out - not right away. Mostly because of my own personal preferences I imagine that Penguin would figure it out because the Penguin’s entire existence is living a lie - he is pretending to be something he is not 24-7 so he can spot masks.
HOWEVER, Penguin also suffers from his own personal bias - he might see that Wayne is pretending to be a rich, spoiled kid but he would never imagine it is because he is Batman. No, he is doing it for selfish reasons, such as getting people to underestimate him so he can take people by surprise in business. I mean, Wayne Enterprises financial records prove that Wayne must be smart enough to run it because it is profitable under him and he appoints smart people like Fox. That goes against his image. Penguin might suspect Wayne is smarter than he puts on but he would never suspect him of being Batman.
Catwoman would, as you pointed out. Not right away, but eventually. I imagine when they first met they would act like they are attracted to each other - she is beautiful, he is famous and rich - but deep down they would find each other distasteful - she seems like a slut and a gold digger only interested in his money, he comes across as spoiled and shallow. It is only after they saw each other a couple of times would they notice incongruences in their act - especially things like why does a gold digger have calloused hands and why does a rich brat have bruised and broken knuckles? They would also recognize similar personal traits, including noticing deep pain. Sooner or later they would piece it together.
“Today, at the begining of the Batman movie, she would be working for the DA and an intern. Why? INSIDE INTEL.”
I disagree with this idea only because I don’t think it would be very inefficient. Selina is a cat burglar who operates solo - as long as she doesn’t leave behind clues and keeps a low profile (or at least has a proper cover story) she has nothing to worry about from the cops. She doesn’t have an organization to protect where there is a million avenues that could lead the cops to her.
Plus being a Intern or working for the DA or cops is time consuming. Sure she can gain some info from the cops, but she looses opportunities to do the things that are most important for her career: practice (it is what makes her perfect) and scouting out potential marks and targets, which she does by interacting and meeting rich people and doing research.
I DO however see her dating a cop or DA because that is much less time consuming and it gives her access to information. I see Selina as being very time conscious and using other people to do little things for her (I imagine she has an accomplice in the insurance business who can tell her about what rich people have insured what gems for how much, and what the security is because they are forced to list that under the policy).
I also don’t think she would let people know she was a former prostitute. Being considered a slut is one thing, but prostitutes are criminals and right away you’ve just made yourself a possible suspect. Bruce Wayne doesn’t always remind people that he is a victim of crime because it would raise suspicions that he could possibly Batman - I think if Selina let people know she was a prostitute it would make people think “Hey, better check out the ex-Hooker.” Once you have a record or are known to have been a criminal, you’re always investigated.
“Similiar thing, Seline would play up the defendless weakly girl, so that she could attract some lowlifes,a nd then she would use the oportunity to put to use her karate-kung fu training and some krav-magra (or whatever it's called).”
I have no problem with Selina actually putting herself in danger once in awhile to test her mettle, but I actually think that her fighting ability is overrated by the fans. She is a thief, not a crime-fighter, so why would she need to be a truly great fighter? She only has to be good enough to escape, not win a fight (Batman has to win a fight - EVERY TIME).
Bruce Wayne’s emphasis for his training would be finding criminals, stopping them and stealth - basically detective/intelligence/surveillance work, martial arts and ninjitsu (for hiding in shadows and moving quietly). Selina Kyle’s emphasis for training would be those things that help her be the best cat burglar possible. What are those things? She needs to know how to FIND OUT WHAT TO STEAL, HOW TO STEAL something and HOW TO ESCAPE.
I would says it would be those skills would require the following: What to steal - acting/conning (to blend in and win people’s trust); How to Steal - cat burglary (climbing, scaling buildings), stealth (hiding in shadows and moving quietly), lock picking, safecracking, and alarm systems; and How to Escape - martial arts (to fight off people trying to apprehend her) and Parkour.
She needs to only know enough martial arts to take care of someone trying to grab her or who takes her to the ground, or enough striking to buy her some time so she can run away. Parkour (but not so much free running, if you know the distance) would be the more important skill because she has to actually physically get away from a crime scene before cops show up or escape those chasing her. Parkour, l'art du déplacement, is the physical discipline of training to overcome any obstacle within one's path by adapting one's movements to the environment, and unlike free running, it is the idea of getting from point A to point B the fastest and the most efficient way. A skill like that might be very valuable for a comic book style thief.
“Sometimes prostitution is a deliberate choice, and i'm not even talking highclass prostitution like call girls.”
The only reason I am against the idea that as someone forced into prostitution by outside circumstances it gives her the motivation to have become a cat burglar. And it gives her a reason to be wary of relationships, which is why she falls for Bruce because he too is hurt and wears emotional armor (after Rachel’s death). They recognize kindred souls.
Also, if she has no problem sleeping with people why become a thief in the first place? Why not just become a black mailer or madame or some other profession. Or just keep being a high class prostitute?
That is my take on it anyhow.
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"I see Selina as being very time conscious"I like that. A good writer could go to town with such a character trait."How to Escape - martial arts (to fight off people trying to apprehend her) and Parkour"You know, i would like to see what nolan could do with parkour in one of his movies. CASINO ROYALE proved you can use parkour effectively in a movie and still retain some plausability while not sacrificing spectacle. A parkour Catwoman, done right, could be make for some cool badass femme action shit."Why not just become a black mailer or madame or some other profession. Or just keep being a high class prostitute?"I'm not as well versed on all things Batman as you are, but i don't think it would be too much of a stretch to ther character to have a sideline business in blackmailing. Let us say, imagine that besides jewlry and art, she would also be in the business of stealing secrets and confidential information that would embarace the welthy. Imagine,if you will, she then decides to do it for Wayne, and finds he has the most impenetrable firewall about his private life. Except his parents death and his socializing and playboy antics, there's nothing that people really know about him. And then there's the 7 years gap in his life, when he was declared death. If catwoman is the curious cat that i think she is, wouldn't she be very curious about such a thing about Wayne's life? Wouldn't that perk her interest?And since we are talking about the ladies in Batman's life, what you think of Vicky Vale and how could she be presented in the Nolanverse?
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I'm not saying that everything should be based on the old Batman: TAS, but they did do a nice chase scene between Bats and Catwoman. You combine that with the free running from CASINO ROYALE and you might have a cool scene.
Plus, I would say she is also a good tight-rope walker. Have you seen MAN ON A WIRE?
As for Vicky Vale, I think she could easily work for the Nolan Universe, but one problem is that she is so similar to Lois Lane (alliteration in the name, female reporter, suspects he is really Batman, etc.) and with Nolan doing Superman I don't know if he would want to use her.
Of course, at the same time, a female reporter who also had feelings for the subject of a story (Bruce Wayne/Batman) might be interesting, especially if you did it in a story that involved the importance of Batman maintaining a secret identity (I imagine Riddler in a story like that for some reason).
I could easily see the climax be Bruce Wayne, owner of the newspaper that Vale works at, NOT squashing the story because that would be abusing his power, but letting Vale make the decision to publish it or not. I could see something like that working. -
I could easily see Vicky interviewing Bruce like the female reporter in Iron Man, and finding him shallow and pathetic, and than begin to see a different side of him and piecing two and two together.
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Indeed.
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"Bullshit, you offered nothing but insults and presumptions based on nothing but nonsense you invented yourself. Many already have pointed that out. The only thing i insulted was your intelligence, whihc you ar enot showing much here. So there. You are a troll indeed. -congratalations, it's not everybody that makes me call one such. you are an exceptional exception. A round of applause to our friend cloudrider. God job, well done."
no, i insulted nolan. you insulted me. and i insulted you back. get it in the right order. and who are these "many that pointed out" i was wrong? it's just you and someone with the nickname 'dark nolan', obviously a guy which such nickname is just as biased as you. everyone else can see nolan talked out of his ass regarding 3d.
you said i have "extreme reaction", so i pointed out your extreme rabid reaction towards jj's. it's not a cheap shot, it's me calling you out as a hypocrite and an idiot.
and you can keep saying i made stuff up, but everyone can read the article again and again and again. nolan said what he said. you just cant accept the truth. -
Batman goes criminal!!!! We discover JOE CHILL IS STILL ALIVE, like RA'S AL GUL and LT. GORDON as we've already seen in the film canon. THEN INTRODUCE... THE REAPER!!!! who is too vigilante.... Then end with BATMAN"S ULTIMATE REDEMPTION!!!!!!
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... a whole bunch of unsubstanciated dumb shit.
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http://www. zercustoms.com/photos/Panoz-Abruzzi.htmlIt's called the Panoz Abruzzi "Spirit Of Le Mans". Check it out. It really looks like the car Batman would use as his batmobille. And it's road legal. V8 6 liters engine producting 600 BHP. And it's gorgeaus. The snag? It costs 600,000 Euros and they only make 81 cars, one for each Le Mans race that took place. Each car will be personalized with the year and the winner of the race.The batmobille is real, it's here, and maybe one day you migth see one rolling by you. The only real question is: does it came in black?
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Sep 27, 2010 8:59:19 AM CDT
Chris Nolan directing Superman would be great. F*&k the other d
by lcworld
Inception, Dark Knight are proofs Nolan is the right man for the job. I hope he pulls a Peter Jackson(possibly directing The Hobbit after Del Toro left) . Matt Reeves? Who cares.
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Both got great reviews and did well, but people(even Nolan fans)seem to forget about it.
I think it's one of the best thrillers of the last 20 years, much like Silence of the lambs and Seven.
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