Cool News
LENO 2.0 Still Doing No Better Than CONAN!!
I am – Hercules!!
Anticipating the TV-news slowdown as we head into the Memorial Day weekend, TV By The Numbers has unveiled another of its charts demonstrating that “The Tonight Show Starring Jay Leno” 2.0 continues to do no better than “The Tonight Show With Conan O’Brien.”
In fact, Jay’s 12th week apparently lagged Conan’s.
AND David Letterman's "Late Show" is now doing a lot better against Jay than he was against Conan.
Doesn’t NBC claim it was losing money with Conan’s “Tonight”? (That was Steve Kroft’s “60 Minutes” premise a few weeks ago, right?) So how much money is NBC losing with Jay pulling essentially the same (or lesser) 18-49 demo?
Of course the trend could reverse itself in a few weeks since Conan eventually had to endure as his lead-in the nigh unwatchable “Jay Leno Show.”
Enough of my biased jibber-jabber. Have a gander at the graph here.
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May 27, 2010 8:44:05 PM CDT
So what was the deal with the food drop?
by crispin_glovers_acid_flashback
LOST or nothing!
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NBC?
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..... Sarcasm, of course.
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with what little he had left after "passing the torch" to Conan.
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Boycott Leno. His monologue was the only good thing about his act and the only thing I watched of his. But since what he did to Conan, I just wait for Kimmel and watch Adult Swim in the mean time.
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Gilmore Girls was pedantic BS, SNL only shows flashes of humor, Joss Whedon is overrated, and in a related story Buffy the vampire slayer has not aged well both figuritively and litterally. What? If Herc can post an inflammatory if not trolling headline, why can't I?
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I caught a segment of George Lopez' show though...even he's got better charisma than the Chin. Look forward to see Conan on TBS this fall!!!
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The more I hear about this show, the more glad I am that I buggered out about the same time as Mr. Eko
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Wow, Herc's not giving up. Does anyone else find his massive emotional investment into a feud between three millionaires a little bizarre? Also worth noting that ALL the research on this was done by another website. Good work, other website.
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+1
Herc is acting like the BFF of the girl who got dumped by the star QB for the nice homely girl who turned out to be a hottie once she got a makeover. Ok, even I don't know what that analogy means, but bottom line, Herc's acting like a bitch. Maybe he couldn't get tickets to Sex and the City 2 on opening night. -
I know we're getting kind of off-topic here, but Gilmore Girls was "pedantic" BS? That word... I don't think it means what you think it means...
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I don't have much energy to get outraged about any of this, but all talk shows are pretty much the same flavor of tripe. Calling one "brilliant" and one "nigh-unwatchable" is still relative to the fact that they're both talk shows, where a comedian comes on and tells a couple of "cute" gags, celebrities come out and pimp their new movies, and animals occasionally eat food off the floor.
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This was nothing to do with Conan, but what the heck, you guys brought it up. It was established that depending on your angle of approach, you could end up hours, days, perhaps weeks or years out of date on the island. Eloise Hawking said that the island was always moving, which some would take to mean that it could be any place -- but I believe she meant any TIME. More than likely, a food drop from the 1980s got blown off course and landed 20+ years late. There, mystery solved in Season 5. Simple as that.
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than he ever did on NBC.
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...Oh? What? That wasn't real?!
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I called it pedantic because I thought if you take away the way the dialog was written and delivered, i.e. without any punctuations, what you had was an unoriginal, pedestrain, show that belonged on Nick Teen rather than on network TV.
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Karma?
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Sad but true. TBS is a definite step down in ratings and prestige.
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Yes! So,so real!
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Are we sure? The older generations still gravitate toward network TV, but I don't think younger viewers care as much. Network TV is dying and basic cable is kicking ass lately. You could argue that the best drama is on AMC (Mad Men) and the best sitcom is on FX (Always Sunny). People seem to think the Daily Show is the best late night has to offer, so put that in basic cable's column too. Conan should have a lot of freedom to do whatever he wants with his new show on TBS. It might be the best thing for him, and for us as viewers. The move to TBS isn't the huge drop in prestige it would have been 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago.
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but the reason he replaced Conan was because it was cheaper than buying out Leno's contract. Conan even said this during his 60 minutes interview. NBC did not replace Conan because of ratings.
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what's your point?
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At least the talk shows in the U.S are better than here in the U.K .We have Johnathan Ross (Jane Goldman's husband) and he's a sad cunt.
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...backlash. Awesome! lol
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I don't know whether that's the actual explanation, but you're forgetting that the Swan station went into "lockdown" to prepare for the food drop. So if it's as simple as a crate entering the island at the wrong coordinates and jumping ahead 20 years, who initiated the lockdown sequence?
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In the episode Lockedown. When Ben was at the computer and Locke was caught under the door, couldn't Ben have sent an order to the computer to send an automatic food drop?
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But then who/what made the food drop?
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"Lost" was so overwhelmingly boring and trite it is a wonder I didn't slit my wrists when I watched the first season, and I only watched the first season because I promised someone I'd do it. And yes, Leno is back on TV because his contract was too expensive to buy out. Conan took the high road. The difficult, potentially career-ending high road, but the high road nonetheless.
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How old is that tired old fuck? It's only a matter of time before he needs to be replaced, again. FUCK LENO. Fuck the tonight show. That franchise is dead and buried. Goodbye!
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Could the "lockdown" have been initiated because some radar within the Swan station detected the plane over the island? An automated lockdown? I'm loving the idea that the food was dropped because the plane had skipped in time when passing over the island, but I don't remember that episode well enough to say for sure.
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First of all...we get it: Leno was a douche and Conan does no wrong. Second: This tagline is a bit misleading. First of all, Leno only dipped ONE WEEK below Conan's numbers. He's been consistent since then. Secondly, Leno is still #1 in OVERALL ratings. The numbers cited here are just the 18-49 demo. While that is the MOST IMPORTANT demo, its not the only one. Your little rant fails to mention that Leno is still #1 in overall ratings and still beating Letterman. Conan often came in 3rd behind even Nightline in overall ratings. So, as long as Leno is #1, I don't think NBC is going to be tsk-tsking their decision. #1 trumps #3 every time. This DOES, however, prove that the stupid "Lead-In" myth that the Conan fans were touting is just that: A myth. When Leno doesn't do so well, you don't blame the lead-in, it seems; you just blame Leno. When Conan fails, you blame the lead-in; you still blame Leno. This despite the fact that Leno was ALWAYS Conan's "lead-in". Meh.
Yay for Conan and his new show. Finally everyone will be on every single channel doing different versions of a 40 year-old concept. When he goes over there, maybe people will quit bitching. And why are people watching these shows anyway? It's an old, dated concept whose time has passed. -
It was Dharma food. Remember the company Mittletos Biosceince that was trying to recruit Juliet to go the island? Maybe they sent the food drop?
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He would have had better ratings. Now NBC will actually work on putting something good at 10 and Leno's ratings will go up and the executive douchebags will say "See! We were right!" After two years of botching it up, they will say they were right. Ah, spin.
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It's been four months since Conan freebirded his way out the door at NBC. You're still on about this? Let it the fuck go, man. I mean you're about one more of these Leno articles away from sticking your thumbs in your ears and taunting "Nanny-nanny boo-boo, Leno's full of poo-poo!" We get it, man. We get it. This is gettin' to be ri-goddam-diculous.
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and man some of you people are just always going to whine huh? No matter what the story is, how cute. Oh and FUCK Jay Leno! :D
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It's every TalkBacker's god-given right to whine. Try it! You'll like it!
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You're speaking too much Sense, Logic and Truth for this crowd.
Now we can't exactly blame Herc, because he's something of a sociopath when it comes to the subject of Leno, and nobody really ever expects him to get anything correct, unbiased or even truthful, when it comes to Journalistic integrity. Even he admits it himself.
But then there are his Lemmings and Butt-boys here who won't bother noticing from that Graph, that it's only dealing with the 18-49 Demo, whereinJay is still beating Letterman, and that his numbers even in that Demo have only dropped below Conan's twice so far. Not that this is to be unexpected, since Conan was supposed to be the strongest of the three when it came to the 18-49 demo. Nor will they bother to note that Leno is still leading and beating Letterman in overall ratings whereas by this time last year, Conan had already lost the number one spot to Letterman and was even getting beat by Nightline routinely, and with still no "weak" Leno Lead-in to blame since he still didn't debut until 3 months later.
But not like we expect Herc to report any of this. He's full of shit as usual in his Leno-hate and slanted crooked biased reporting, and his Lemmings on the talkbacks just follow him over the edge in their collective stupidity.
So TheRevenge, take that good logic nonsense somewhere else where people actually use their brains for more than just a counterweight to the feet. -
Like he promised. Now he's going to be an example of failure and proof that you can outstay your welcome, even on late night TV. NBC could not have fucked this up more than they did.
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I guess it's within the realm of possibility that the Others could have made the food drop somehow (since they commandeered a bunch of Dharma equipment and goods after the purge), but Ben was only taken out of his cell after the lockdown took place.
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oh wait...my bad
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is a possible alternative title ;-)
Just saying! -
even folks I know that liked Leno have turned against him after all that and no longer watch him
And I can't see him attracting new viewers -
Skewing headlines since 1957.
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Proving once again that 87% of all percentages are made up.
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Fair and balanced.
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Because news won't break itself.
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From the makers of hater-ade.
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As objective as the day is long. In Alaska. In December.
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It is our god given right, can't deny that! :p Just surprised at HOW MUCH whining goes on, I should know better by now ;)
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He could have just developed "Top Gear USA", not taken a 5 night a week 10pm TV vaccuum, would have only been on once a week... but also would have killed, let him play with his beloved cars, keeps conan on the tonight show... and avoids this whole fucked up scenario in the first place.
Sadly, the motherfucker has a head with the size and IQ of a goddamn wheel of parmesan. Alas. -
What a time saver...
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As Conan suggested, canning Conan and buying him out was cheaper for NBC then buying out Leno. Even if the ratings stay exactly the same, they may still be better off from that perspective.And Conan on TBS likely isn't going to beat the network shows, but there's also less of an expectation for ratings there.
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I think this could maybe be blamed on one of two things, or maybe both. I figured (as NBC probably did) that in the end, despite the negative press Leno was getting, people eventually wouldn't care and just end up watching Leno anyway.BUT, the fact that Conan was on, and got lower ratings suggests many regular Tonight Show viewers stopped watching it. And after several months pass of not watching the show, viewers get out of the habit. It doesn't take much for people to give up on a show after a long absence.
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Yeah we know NBC lied. Conan said that NBC would've had to have given Leno a bigger payout if they dropped him, so they dropped Conan because they didn't have to pay him as much to leave.
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The Hanso Foundation was funding the Dharma Initiative and dropping them food. They didn't realize that everyone had been murdered, because Mikhail "Patchy" continued to work the communication station with the outside world in his Dharma outfit. If you can't follow simple things like that, then maybe Lost wasn't the show for you.
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May 28, 2010 9:00:40 AM CDT
Yeah.....at this point Herc is outright lying to get attention
by sauronthepowerful
It has been proven EVERYWHERE else in the world, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, that Leno is once again indeed trouncing Letterman in the ratings with the exception of the 18-49. However, his overall numbers are destroying Conan's rather elongated pathetic experiment for 16 months which yielded exactly nothing.
And yet Herc continues to espouse the myth that 'coco' was unfairly run off by the very same network that unfairly ran Leno out (against his repeated wishes I might add) the first time. It defies logic that the wildly successful incumbent host should be ousted for a younger, supposedly hipper, upstart who then turns out to be a miserable failure FOR SIXTEEN MONTHS and then be criticized when the network is forced to mop up the baby's spilled milk with damage control to regain what was lost in putting the idiot O'Brian in charge. I guess that age old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is lost on the various coco-flavorred amobae trolling this site despereate to formulate even the most basic concepts of logic.
Bottom line: Leno is once again #1, beating the competition soundly (makes you wonder if Letterman's magnanimous gestures of indignant support of coco's heartbreaking plight were motivated by just the slightest conflict-of-interest), and is not going anywhere, anytime soon despite the desperate, whiny attempts at verbal defecation running rampant on this site (including a rather sadly comical attempt by the "journalist" du jour.
Leno's winning and there's not a lot that anyone can do to change that, now is there??????? -
May 28, 2010 9:11:59 AM CDT
So, what your little chart shows is that Leno IS beating
by coughlins laws
Letterman soundly, and you're also failing to include OVERALL VIEWERS, where Leno is DESTROYING Letterman, just like he always has. The 18-19 demographic IS the most important one, but it's NOT all that matters and you know it. Besides, aren't you guys at AICN all anti-establishment, anti-corporate liberals? I thought you hated evil corporations and now all of a sudden, you use their guidelines to try and tell us which shows you think are doing better. What you're basically saying is that you don't think anyone over 49 should count because it doesn't matter to their bottom-line. Look, Leno still gets one to two million more viewers than Letterman EVERY NIGHT. He will continue to trounce him. And when he's head to head with Conan (the scumbag backstabber who went to NBC behind his back to steal his job), he'll trounce him, too. Did Leno run over your puppy or something, Herc? This vendetta is just very strange at this point? Do you REALLY hate this guy this much and are trying to hurt him because of what Howard Stern says? Really?
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He will always get the ratings because the masses buy his "regular guy" schtick and eat up his bland inoffensive humor. He was made for network television and he belongs there along with his geezer audience.
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people's minds?
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that troll on this board. Get your facts straight before you post outright bullshit. Fucking chuckleheads.
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I think you mean SIX months; 16 months is 1 and 1/3 years. In other words, if Conan had been host of The Tonight Show for 16 months, beginning June 1, 2009, he'd still be on the air now, and remain so until the end of September 2010.
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May 28, 2010 9:39:39 AM CDT
Really, seagrass? Herc leads with a headline that's a lie
by coughlins laws
and I'm the one that needs to get my facts straight? Name one thing I was wrong about...
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... Shocking!!!
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Exactly
Amazing how a cozy little concept called the truth is able to destroy even the most assinine of imagined liberal arguements. -
LEno is kicking as much ass with old people as he always has. Pretty much everyone under the age of 40 wouldnt piss on him if he was laying by the side of the road on fire. And this is news? Hasnt this been the case for like 10 years? Leno will continue to dominate the retirement community crowd, coco will embrace hilarious obscurity on TBS,and Letterman will continue to cruise along pretty much exactly as he always has, rising up to show brilliance in crisis. Status quo.
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Are we somehow arguing that Conan is a huge Democrat? Or Conan success equals success for Obama? I dont get it.
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While Conan said in his interview that it was cheaper to buy him out than Leno, he was only talking about the RUMOURS that Leno was asking for more. NBC responded to that interview by denying Leno was more money and stated the buy out for both was about the same.
While I have no doubt NBC is full of crap, if we take them at their word, then this was all about Leno's ratings. Ratings he no longer has. -
Jay Leno, is the smoke monster.
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The article is saying Letterman is doing better against Leno than he did against Conan, not that Letterman is beating Leno.
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Now he's reaping what he's sown. No more Mr. Nice Guy, huh? Guess what - once you've shown yourself to be a manipulative, self-serving jerk, you can't take it back! Yeah, the olds who watch Leno's show may have faulty memories, but not the people NBC really wants for his audience: all those tweeting kids. They wouldn't be caught dead supporting Leno.
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While you may be right that Herc's article is misleading and hilariously biased, the facts he lays out are true. In the most important demographic, Leno's ratings are no better than Conan's were during the same period of time and he isn't "crushing" Letterman, thus disproving the network's and legion of Leno apologist's excuse that the reason Conan was canned was because his ratings sucked.
Yeah, Leno might have the entire Matlock demographic on lockdown, but that's never been what networks or advertisers gave a shit about. -
May 28, 2010 12:30:30 PM CDT
So I guess.....according to the new liberal math.....
by sauronthepowerful
Being #3 is far preferable and will get you that oh so coveted facetime with Herc than being #1.
Amazing in all of this is that Letterman can't beat anyone with the fellacating twitter demographic. -
I can confirm that everything advertisers think is exactly true, old people dont spend money for shit.
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May 28, 2010 1:07:54 PM CDT
I don't think it strange that Herc has a personal bias...
by mr. nice gaius
...but I do find it strange that admitted conservatives are so eager to suck Leno's cock.Oooooo weeeee! What up wit dat? What up wit dat?!
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Seriously. Look at the distance between the two numbers. Yeah, like there isn't a whole lot of "wiggle room" there. It has always been somewhat of a smokescreen.
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Regardless of how you feel about Leno and how the whole Conan/Leno fiasco played out, NBC made a business decision. If Conan's ratings were better, if his show wasn't about to lose money for the first time in the history of the Tonight Show, he would still have his job. Leno's show is doing better overall now once again, than Conan's did. And even if the overall ratings were the same, if NBC was still making more from advertising on the Leno version, it still would have been the right decision on their part to make the switch.
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1. They tend to be older.
2. They tend to be more likely to respect an established institution (Leno over newcomers).
3. They love to suck white silver-haired cock. -
I still have a spot in my heart for Conan and watched show regularly back in the day. Leno has never been funny to me altho, outside of this recent stuff, I hear he's a really nice guy, caring of his entire production crew (down to the interns) and just an all around decent guy.I hear the same about Conan too. Dave supposedly isn't as nice a guy but not a major dickhead. And with the Letterman/Leno Tonight Show wars years back..it occurs to me that the villains in this circus-y episode are the networks and affiliates and network presidents.
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quit watching late night talk when Johnny Carson retired
These days if I watch a late show it's Craig Ferguson -
May 28, 2010 1:36:51 PM CDT
And everyone except for Herc apparently can see that that busine
by sauronthepowerful
Amazing.
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That's the whole point of this article, though. If Conan was dumped unceremoniously because his ratings stunk, then the execs did so hastily and foolishly because Leno didn't pull in shit during the 10pm hour and isn't doing any better than Conan in the Tonight Show slot (outside of the Matlock demographic who networks and advertisers don't care about). Conan already got his new job in a more appropriate place, so I'm not interested in dragging this out over and over like Herc. However, I can't fathom how the Leno apologists can't see that Leno taking the 10pm slot and then agreeing to take back the Tonight Show were both classless moves that were either indirectly or purposefully designed to sabotage Conan, particularly since most of them are old enough to remember Carson stepping down graciously despite being run out by Leno under eerily similar circumstances. Unless, of course, it's just the continuing polarization of discourse. The other person isn't simply wrong, but every aspect of his argument is wrong and admitting otherwise is akin to losing. Sad really that compromise has become such a dirty word.
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And thank you Conan for ending Lost on such a satisfying note. Seriously.
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...and then hate themselves for it through legislation.
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You seem to be comparing apples and oranges. You can't compare Leno at 10PM to either Conan at 11:30 or himself at 11:30. Two entirely different animals. They clearly were alarmed by what they saw with Conan. Do I think they jumped the gun? Yes, and I wouldn't have done what they did, when they did it. But if a show has always made money and suddenly after changing hosts, it begins to lose money, not just ratings, there is a problem. NBC clearly believed in Conan originally or they would never have shown Jay the door (5 years in advance) in order to keep Conan from bolting.
Did NBC screw over both guys to a large extent? Yes. Did Conan get the worst of it? Yes, though you could make the case that financially he came out just fine. And did Leno make big mistakes in handling the whole situation? Absolutely. I doubt anyone would disagree that it was handled poorly. But that didn't mean NBC didn't have any reason to make the change. -
he makes Fallon look like Carson.
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FUCK YOU, JAY!
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Herc was corrected on this before and continues to do it: I can't assume he just doesn't understand. The ratings he refers only includes 18-49. Overall Leno handily continues to beat Conan's former Tonight Show and Letterman's show.
Herc I have seen you post dubious stuff before and I have always assumed you were misinformed or playing the advocate for someone. But this is too far even for you. -
So, Conan is now a "scumbag backstabber who went to NBC behind his back to steal his job"? That's flat-out bullshit. Nice try.
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Take it easy there, champ. I can understand you're feeling frustrated with all the complaints lodged at the "Lost" writers (or "backlash toward the backlash," in an attempt to tie this at least tangentially to the subject of the article), but I actually like the show. I'm just trying to talk through some of the plot points with other people. By the way, you're the third person in this Talkback alone with a different "simple" explanation for the food drop, and all three of them are problematic. So maybe you should cool it with the insults when you don't even know what you're talking about.
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Jimmy Kimmel is the future of Late Night talk shows. Where you don't really do an opening monologue. You just show clips of the absurd things celebrities did that week and make fun of them, like the Soup on the E Network.
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May 28, 2010 3:31:19 PM CDT
Forget ratings, how do Leno apologists defend the fact...
by ebonic_plague
...that Leno is not even remotely funny? Honestly, he could have the highest rated show on television, and that would still not change the fact that Leno is painfully unfunny. I can't even begin to relate to a person who considers his show to be at all representative of worthwhile comedy. He might serve well as an inoffensive cue-card reader and pre-scripted celebrity interviewer, but to call what he does "comedy" is an insult to anyone with a functioning sense of humor. -
I know for a fact what Leno apologists say. They say Leno is funny, Conan isn't and if Conan was funny then he'd have better ratings. they close by saying if all the Conan fans watched his show, his ratings would have been in the billions and NBC would have given him a 100 year contract. In short, Leno apologists are full of as many self-deluded excuses as Leno himself.
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I don't even know the number of TBS on my cable box.
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That's why The Wire was the highest rated show on cable and swept the Emmy's all those years, and also the reason that shows like American Idol and Wife Swap were such dismal ratings failures and disappeared overnight. Nobody ever went broke overestimating the American public's appetite for smart, challenging entertainment. Or, wait, I think I wrote that wrong... -
...although that chore may take some doing.
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May 28, 2010 3:49:56 PM CDT
Craig Ferguson actually shits on most of these guys anyway.
by fat_rancor_keeper
Letterman is Letterman, you either like him or you don't. Conan is cool but his last NBC run was weak. Not weak enough to have gotten the shaft that he did but it was weak nonetheless. Leno has always sucked.
Craig Ferguson on the other hand is consistently funny yet criminally overlooked. -
I think Conan is way funnier than Leno, but he seems so uncomfortable with guests. He tries WAY too hard to force jokes and humor in when it would be great to just hear some of these people just talk. He needs to stop trying to make the interviews into a half-ass improv sketch. You're funny Conan, ease up.
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Sorry, just sick of everyone blaming Leno for the whole thing. It wasn't his fault, NBC made the fuck up.
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whose fault it is that the ratings were low or not as high as they'd have liked. I'm just glad that Leno hasn't improved them much or at all. Fuck Leno. El Douchebag Ultimo!!
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in the other Conan TB - It was picked up by CTV this week. Canada Gets Conan!
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The guy is terrible at interviews and you can tell he just makes up shit as he goes.
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1. This is all due to poor decisions on NBC's part. Conan was likely NOT going to leave. But they dangled "The Tonight Show" in front of him to ensure it. That was mistake number 1. They never should have pushed Leno to retire when he wasn't ready to. I don't care if Leno announced it or not. Leno has always been a Company Man who does what he's told. On a side note, I don't know if Conan's reps forced this from the beginning or not...trying to force NBC to ensure him that show within 5 years...but, if they did, that was ALSO a poor decision. Forcing out the #1 guy too early just wasn't a good move. I'm assuming it was NBC, so I'm giving Conan's people a pass. That said, Conan had a great gig with NBC. I don't know that he needed to push it.
2. Leno doesn't "owe" anyone a retirement. No one whined about how Carson HAD to retire when he wasn't ready to yet...and that guy stuck around to the point where he only showed up a couple days a week. If Leno loves his job, why does he owe it to anyone to go away? Especially not when MILLIONS of people still love to see him?
3. The fact that millions of people love Leno is what scared NBC the most. Yes, Leno said he was retiring....FROM "THE TONIGHT SHOW". He never said he was done with TV. What scared NBC the most wasn't losing Conan or even losing cash on "The Tonight Show" by not waiting a bit longer. What scared them was if Leno went to Fox or ABC, (Both of which wanted him) or syndication, and hosted another talk show. If he BEAT "The Tonight Show", they would have lost even more money and REALLY looked like jackasses. Imagine getting their asses kicked by the guy who they forced out. It would've been an even big disaster than what happened.
4. Leno was ALWAYS Conan's "Lead-In", yet no one gives him any credit for Conan's years of success at 12:30. Why not? If you can blame Leno's 10pm ratings for Conan's failure, why can you not also concede that much of Conan's late-night SUCCESS was because Leno was successful at 11:30pm? Well, THIS was something NBC thought...so that's why the wanted to try the stupid idea of putting them BOTH on after 11:30pm. Conan balked.
5. The "Lead-In" thing is a myth anyway. It's stupid. It's 2010. People choose who they want to watch, not watch because of whatever is on. Anyone here watch TV that way? Didn't think so. Neither does anyone else.
6. There is not a comedian I know of (I'm a professional comedian, btw) who would not have taken the deal Leno did when offered to take "The Tonight Show" back. And I include Conan O'Brien in that. Here's the scoop: You don't know any of these people. What they say and what they do aren't always the same thing. Leno was given what he WANTED and had an entire staff wanting the same thing. He wasn't crazy. Ad his saying no did not mean Conan was going to be saved.
7. These are all dated shows using a dated formula. I don't watch any of them unless I really want to see a particular guest (which is rare) or something like that. Ferguson is actually the best, but that's because of his energy. The format is still kinda tired.
8. I've never understood the hard-on for "The Tonight Show". Yes, it's an institution, but it's always going to be a matter of filling someone else's shoes; following the other guy's lead. Fuck that. I'd rather have my name on it and take it where I want to. Hopefully Conan will do just that. -
Based on the headline Herc threw up -- as well as his comment "In fact, Jay’s 12th week apparently lagged Conan’s AND David Letterman's Late Show is now doing a lot better against Jay than he was against Conan" -- you'd think that Leno was really sliding badly behind Letterman......Well, that is UNTIL you read the actual article, where is specifically says (quote): "David Letterman’s Late Show also stayed even with a 0.9 adults 18-49 rating vs. the previous week, and was again beaten by the Tonight Show as it has been each week since Jay returned."In other words, NBC is probably pretty fucking happy since Leno IS beating Letterman, which Conan was NOT doing.Herc, I know you don't like Leno, but better luck trying to twist the news next time! In addition to taking some lessons to get better at reading comprehension, why don't you take a course in Journalism 101 while you're at it?
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...he's the funniest person working pn late night tv.
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It no longer exists on my list of channels
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YEAH.....I guess that's what we're calling it these days.
Starshipcaptain: EXACTLY CORRECT! Couldn't have said or supported it ANY better myself and yet there are still those who fly in the face of convention AND common sense trying to comically convince us that NBC is sufferring from the decision to stop the largest venting of cash and advertisers in the history of the Tonight Show brand with a tried and true product that wildly succeeded not once, BUT TWICE!
Until next time.....1) Leno will indeed get to keep collecting his hefty salary while Herc continues to dream-the-dream of actually engenderring some journalistic respect (apparently SORELY lacking thus far) 2) NBC somehow find a way, despite their education by the worldclass journalist known as Herc, to indeed be happy with the performance that Leno has put up so far and 3) The artist formerly known as coco will continue to toil in obscurity despite the best efforts of herc to 'enlighten' the rest of us as to why Leno isn't making NBC and its affiliates millions in revenue streams..... -
May 28, 2010 11:47:37 PM CDT
I can't wait until Coco's show DESTROYS Leno and Letterman!
by burnhollywood
LMAO...but even the most ardent Coco fan knows THAT won't happen...
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I don't care if Conan's tbs show does well in the ratings compared to the network shows.. as long as it does well for a cable show (which it most likely will) and they keep making them is what I care about.
The whole Leno vs Conan thing still going on is pretty funny. Why do any of you care any more? They are both going to have shows, so just watch what you want. -
confirmed it. Conan went to NBC executives 5 years ago and said he was getting lots of offers to leave and would leave if he wasn't promised The Tonight Show. This has been confirmed by multiple sources. He forced the executives to choose between him and Leno. He could have walked and gotten a network gig. Now the loser is going to TBS, where he'll finish a distant 5th place, behind Leno, Letterman, Nightline, Jon Stewart, and local news. It's an idiotic move. If he hadn't failed so miserably and ruined The Tonight Show's ratings, he could have gotten on ABC or Fox. But no, the loser is stuck on TBS now, leading in the horrible George Lopez...
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I love watching the arc of a backlash on these boards. It's been really easy to watch happen lately, too.
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May 29, 2010 11:08:31 AM CDT
Jaka, Conan forced NBC to fire Leno, even though Leno
by coughlins laws
was by far the most popular Late Night show. This fact didn't seem to bother the small but vocal Conan fanbase, who don't let facts get in their way. They're of the generation that immediately hates everything about their supposed enemies, no matter what the facts are...
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Which sources? And which ones specifically state that he "would leave if he wasn't promised The Tonight Show."?
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outlets, etc. Notice Conan never denied it?
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Specifically about the "promised" part. Because the book on the negotiations that brought about the transistion YEARS ago is already public knowledge. It sounds like you're trying to put a particular spin on it in favor of Leno. Which I can understand since you're such an uber-fan.
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May 29, 2010 11:44:33 AM CDT
Mr. Nice Gaius, explain to me what you think happened
by coughlins laws
when Conan went to NBC executives 5 years ago (six, now). Why did he bother telling them about the other offers for an 11:30 show if he didn't want them to give him The Tonight Show? You really don't think he want them to promise him The Tonight Show? Why didn't he just take another offer? Leno was 15 to 20 years younger than Carson when he retired. He showed no reason to believe that he wanted out. Carson, for his last 5 to 10 years, barely worked. He took off 2 to 3 nights a week and took multiple vacations. Leno, on the other hand, never takes a night off and takes hardly any vacations. Leno obviously wanted the job. And Conan obviously wanted his job. If he didn't, he would've left...
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Why must I look things up for you? Explain why Conan went to NBC executives if he DIDN'T ask them to give him The Tonight Show...
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May 29, 2010 1:04:53 PM CDT
Are you daft? Of course Conan wanted the Tonight Show.
by mr. nice gaius
It's the token Holy Grail of late night talkshows; it's what some comedians/writers aspire to achieve. But the burden of proof is on you to prove your allegations, Father Coughlins. Quotes please. Because the scenario you have laid out is a hypothetical and it also suggests that Conan had more clout at NBC than your favored ratings-master, Leno.What's clear is that NBC viewed Conan as an asset; one they did not want to lose to another network. So, they announced a 5 YEAR transistion period - one to which Leno utterly capitulated. In fact, he endorsed it.Do you really think Leno would let Conan usurp him if he wasn't willing to agree to the arrangement? How could Conan muscle Leno out of a job during the heighth of his popularity? If Conan was such a force to be reckoned with, why would NBC work so hard to keep Leno within the network rather than let him entertain the offers coming in from NBC's competitors? Could it be that there was concern over whether he would bite into Conan's ratings?Bottom line: I wish you would just admit that NBC fucked up and that Jay Leno is a banal, unfunny asshole.
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...he had many guest-hosts over the years. They varied from actors to working comedians. As Carson's tenure was winding down, the guest-hosts started to become more selective and Leno became the most frequent of them all. As such, he was becoming increasingly familiar to the viewers of the show. Meanwhile, Carson had always fancied Letterman as his replacement. But we all know how that worked out.It's interesting to think whether anything would have been different had NBC opened up the possibility for guests hosts during Leno's initial tenure. Considering Leno's much bally-hooed work ethic, it's highly unlikely that any other transitional scenario could have taken place short of the one involving Conan; the most logical successor.
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May 29, 2010 3:47:26 PM CDT
Herc..... Where were your updates when Leno was Beating Letterma
by darfurontherocks2
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Conan's strength is 18-49. That's his only strength, he fails every older age group. That demo is NOT Leno's strength, and yet he's doing roughly the same with them than Conan did, PLUS gets the oldsters in droves, which makes him #1 instead of #3 in late night. I love Conan, but NBC's business decision makes perfect sense.
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When one is a banal, unfunny asshole oneself, it's probably more difficult to recognize those traits as negatives in other people. Besides, I doubt Coughlins Lawls even likes Leno. He just hates Letterman, because Dave makes fun of retards like Saint Sarah, and so he has to come out on the side of team Douchebag. There really is no defense of Leno in terms of comedy, he only gets the ratings he does because his shtick doesn't make retirees have to use their dwindling mental capacity in order to get the jokes.
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The biggest issue I have with this is people saying who is funny and who isn't. Honestly, they are each about as funny as network television will allow. And the monologue is, what, five minutes of the show? With that in mind, the average viewer tunes in to watch whom they think is the most likable and the best interviewer. Say what you will about Leno (and I know any of you just can't wait to hate him, regardless of what he does or whether or not you've even watched him in years), he's known for being a good interviewer. Celebrities always talk about how much they like being interviewed by him. That's one reason people tune in to watch. It's just a cheesy interview show. They all are. Being funny isn't even the biggest part. And, whether we like to admit it or not, a majority of Americans don't sit around rooting for edgy comedy or dripping sarcasm. That's why Letterman often loses the popularity contests to Leno. Personally, I find the format dated, as I've already said. And I find Ferguson the most entertaining of the bunch. But here on AICN we all live in some world where we think that broad appeal is a bad thing. On network TV talk shows, broad appeal and simple interviews are GOLDEN. Leno is popular because people find him likable on TV. Period. The numbers speak for themselves, whether it pisses of hipsters and edgy comedy-lovers or not. And sometimes...just sometimes...people like being talked to by a host who seems to like them right back. Leno gives that impression. BTW - As far as "guest hosts" goes, as far as I now, Carson was the only one to use them (with the exception of Pat Sayjack. Yes, Pat Sayjack.), so I don't find it odd that Leno never has. None of them have. In the end, everyone just won. Every single one of those fuckers now has a late night show on opposite each other. Go watch whomever you want. Everyone just won. If you love Conan, you should REALLY be thrilled, because his "Tonight Show" wasn't nearly as entertaining as his "Late Night" show was. TBS won't neuter him, methinks.
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No idea why there were so many typos in my last post. Sorry, gang. Apparently the keyboard doesn't work as fast as I do. Fuckin' netbook.
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when Conan's TBS show loses to whatever is on Nick at Night and informercials. Blame Leno then, morans.
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Agreed on both points, sir. And Father Coughlins' knee-jerk reaction to always defend the likes of Leno, Beck, and Palin and attack others such as Letterman, Conan, and Stern is truly revealing unto itself.
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To all the Leno lovers out there you should be happy. The boring, two faced, unfunny guy is back. The classy, screwed over guy will be on TBS soon enough. Everyone has something. Enjoy.
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until all the facts came out. NBC and Leno showed their true colors when it all came down to it. Conan rose above all the crap and showed what class is all about. Take a hard look at the interview Leno gave Oprah. I had never seen an individual speak sideways out of his mouth and ass at the same time.
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