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ScoreKeeper Deconstructs the Notes and Bolts of the IRON MAN 2 Score
Greetings! ScoreKeeper here forging my thoughts and iron-clad opinions on one of the more anticipated film scores of 2010. I'm an ardent admirer of John Debney's work especially for the previous two films in which he collaborated with director Jon Favreau: ELF (2003), and ZATHURA: A SPACE ADVENTURE (2005). You may count me among the disappointed when he was not assigned to pen the score for IRON MAN (2008).
When I announced back in July of 2009 that John Debney had officially been hired to score IRON MAN 2 (2010) I was elated! It immediately spearheaded the list of scores I would look forward to most in 2010.
Having finally seen the film and absorbed the weight of heavy-metallic orchestral music wrought by Debney, I stand between a division where some of my loftier expectations were met while others fell unexpectedly short.
There is much to applaud and appreciate in Debney's raucous score for IRON MAN 2. If I had to award a blue ribbon for one particular aspect of the entire work, it would be the music associated with Whiplash (Mickey Rourke). Debney manages to weave uber-cool guttural explosions of distorted electric guitar and bleating trombones with the enigmatic timbres of an Eastern European style choir and orchestra. He nailed the aural characterizations of Ivan Vanko by combining a primitively gothic sound with that of advanced technology. The low brass writing during these moments (and throughout the score in general) certainly should be praised. Even during the quieter moments where Vanko is toiling away at his sinister inventions the music is brooding and boiling with the subtle confidence reflected in Rourke's eyes.
Although the overall functionality of the score is relatively uncomplicated, there are certain key moments where Debney's narrative instinct is on display. Such a moment occurred when Lt. Col. Rhodes (Don Cheadle) steals the Iron Man Mark II suit and flies it to Edwards Air Force Base to turn it over to the U.S. military. To fully appreciate the success of this cue you have to understand the complexity of the narrative at this juncture and how important it was for Debney to provide the correct emotional signature. Rhodes, who is a dear friend of Tony Stark, and admired deeply by the audience, appears to turn traitor and serve the government machine which has already been established as a major antagonist. Favreau's intention was not to make Rhodes out to be a villain but rather a patriot. Debney composed a rousing patriotic anthem with a glorious theme during Rhodes arrival at Edwards. I did not succumb to the temptation to turn on Rhodes thanks in large part to John's music which delicately balanced the motive of his actions as a heroic gesture.
In a film that is packed to the hilt with crunchy electric guitar and low brass-laden orchestral music, the ear welcomes the relief from several well-timed moments of intimacy within the score. Debney has a penchant for expressing volumes of emotion with a few simple musical gestures. The earthen tone of a solo clarinet balances well the relentless kinetic energy of the fast-paced action music. I wish there were more moments like this in the film, not merely from a musical vantage point but from a narrative one as well.
One of the highlights of the score is a short source cue composed by Disney legend, Richard M. Sherman, entitled "Make Way for Tomorrow Expo." Known for his collaborations with brother Robert, the pair crafted memorial tunes and scores for films like MARY POPPINS (1964) and CHITTY CHITTY BANG BANG (1968) as well as the infectious theme-park standard "It's A Small World (After All)." This particular scene in IRON MAN 2 reeks of an homage to Walt Disney himself which makes the inclusion of Mr. Sherman delightfully apropos.
Although Debney composed a mighty Goldsmith-esque theme for Iron Man and relies upon it periodically throughout the film, there isn't enough development to extrude it from its expositional form. I think this would have been perfectly acceptable if this were the first film of the series; however, since we are embarked on a developmental journey of already established characters, the music doesn't quite have the legs to keep up. It's a fantastic theme that embodies Iron Man well. I lament it was not developed more throughout the picture.
At times the score was turned on or off with the flick of a switch. This is an attribute I fear permeates a lot of film music today. We're on. Now we're off. On again. Off again. One of the aspects of Debney's past work I appreciate so much is the seemingly effortless manner he weaves the organic flow of his compositions into the narrative. There were certainly a host of opportunities for this beyond the ones utilized that would have established the legacy of such a memorable theme. Perhaps it's a mild case of THE-DARK-KNIGHT syndrome but I can't help feel the film could've benefitted more from Debney's melodic magic and a little less of the bulldozing riffs.
Before I wrap this up, I feel it pertinent to expose one of the more egregious missteps concerning the score and it has nothing to do with Mr. Debney. Films in general (especially high-octane action films) are rarely mixed well. I've accepted it as the status quo and will rarely mention it but in the case of IRON MAN 2, I feel compelled to reveal my disappointment with the film's mix. It befuddles me to no end that one would spend tens of thousands of dollars per minute for original music only to completely and wholly bury it under a deafening avalanche of sound effects. Film music literally ceases to function if the ear can not perceive its existence.
Although I enjoyed the film as a whole I felt a perpetual yearning to connect with the narrative on an emotional level that never quite manifested. I'm not sure how I was supposed to achieve this when the primary ingredient designated for fulfilling such goals was completely obliterated from the sonic space it desperately needed to survive.
Debney undoubtedly turned in a solid effort and there will be moments from this score that I will be listening to perpetually throughout the year. I believe it is a step in the right direction as far as resurrecting the intellectual complexity of the superhero score even if it's a smaller step that I might have expected. I have a feeling it'll be well received amongst the film music faithful even if some of my nitpicks are shared by others. If there is an IRON MAN 3 I would welcome Debney's return to the musical world he established in IRON MAN 2...I just hope my ears will be able to tell that it's there.
The twenty-five track CD will be released by Sony Classical on July 7, 2010.
ScoreKeeper!!!
ScoreKeeper!!!
Readers Talkback
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But that suit was designed for a user that had an Arc Reactor embedded into his chest. How the heck does Rhodes power the suit?
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Debney is a good composer,i am sure despite its flaws i am going to enjoy his new soundtrack.
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well, unless you count lawrence of arabia
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What about the first Star Wars movie? O
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It was pretty good. I wouldn't call myself a "Dark Knight lover", but no one can deny it was strong. Also, John Williams is a thieving hack.
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Jebus that dude sucks. His COTT score was laughable.
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The Joker theme was good, but the rest was lifted from Batman Begins.
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......actually wasn't that bad. I saw it yesterday. It's not great, but it's not a catastrophe.
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It was called "Vacation's Over." I tried to listen to the rest of the soundtrack and it was kinda boring.
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and didn't even realise there was a musical score. Sometimes that's a good thing, non-intrusive scores because we're caught up in the action and drama but I think this was more a case of what score keeper talks about. Also if Iron man has or has ever had a theme i couldn't tell you how it goes or hum it. Whatever happened to hummable hero themes? nowdays just seems to be all percussion and electronics. Does anyone remember what a melody is?
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I know I'm one of the few that liked a lot of the Iron Man 1 score (I think the blacksmith hammer-like percussion from Mark I is brilliant and the brief theme that followed has been stuck in my head for 2 years; also the more horn-like theme that plays while he's testing the Mark II and towards the end of "Driving With the Top Down" was catchy too), but even for the sake of consistency, I was hoping at least some of the themes carried over (and I was made somewhat hopeful by them being used in some of the tie-in commercials like for Dr Pepper).
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Um, since when is a high-pitched screech from the string section a "theme"?<BR><BR>And I agree with red_weed...whatever happened to heroic themes in superhero movies? To this day, you can hum the themes to Superman, Indiana Jones, Elfman's Batman, ect., and people will recognize them, but in the last 10-15 years...what? Aside from Williams' first three Harry Potter scores, and James Horner's two Zorro scores, there's NOTHING for the ear to hold onto, just a lot of synthetic banging noises, the generic Apocalyptic Choir Of Doo[tm], a few shreds of an orchestra, and a lot of minor-key noodling. Hellboy actually had a few very good, melodic themes, but Marco Beltrami got canned from the sequel, meaning we never got to hear him elaborate on his thematic material from the first movie. Do today's moviegoers think themes are "corny" or "old-hat"? Imagine Indiana Jones done today and scored by that Ramen Noodles guy, with squealing electric guitars and thumping drum machines in every scene. Fuck...
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and that comes from a guy that has had this username since 1998. "Molossus" is one of five tracks I use to test any piece of audio equipment.
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That's James Horner you're thinking about.<BR><BR>Christ, people are bagging on JOHN WILLIAMS now?! For FUCK'S sake!
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He goes home every night to his harem of eager ladies, bangs four or five, and then has a cocktail. What's a good score to bang four or five women at the same time?
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Which means that when people look on store shelves on the Tuesday before the film comes out in theaters (the usual soundtrack release date), all they will find is the AC/DC tie-in "soundtrack." That's a lowdown con, if ever I've seen one.
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...if Michael Giacchino did it.
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The only time I ever heard a score in TDK was the great Bank Heist theme, and the theme where Gordon and Batman chase after the Armored car.
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May 2, 2010, 10:07 p.m. CST
Kids of the early 90s had the Batman music of Elfman/Walker
by Nasty In The Pasty
Kids of the late 00s have Zimmer/Howard. What a travesty...
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John Williams is a hack because almost everything he's ever "composed" is directly lifted another composer, some even fairly close to his time period (Prokofiev to name one). And I can hum Batman's theme from Dark Knight. It pops into my head all the time.
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A music critic.
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May 2, 2010, 10:23 p.m. CST
Horner is the one who "borrows" from other composers shamelessly
by Nasty In The Pasty
And his own meager compendium of thematic fragments keep getting recycled again and again. Horner had A FULL YEAR to write music for Avatar, and what did we get...? A few rewrites of themes from Glory and The Four Feathers (the former already swiped from Prokofiev), the ever-popular Moaning Woman, and the motherfucking four-note "Danger Motif" (da-da-da-DAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!) that he's been hammering into our eardrums for the last 30 goddamn years. Williams is clearly INSPIRED by his peers and predecessors, but I can't think of a moment where he deliberately lifted something from his someone else or his own back catalogue and plunked it verbatim into a new score. When Williams is gone, film music will be in a truly dire state.
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You are remarkably wrong. But theirs no point in saying that because you'll think what you want.
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Dude, you already spoke volumes about how mind blowingly deaf you are with your Dark Knight comment about not even realizing there was a score. Now your going after Horner, just do all of the music world a favor and put a drill to both of your ear drums. Maybe then we won't have to listen to what must be grunts and squeals in your actual language.
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Um...are you forgetting Lord of the Rings? There's a ton of hummable themes in those three scores. The Fellowship theme, Hobbits theme, Gondor theme, Isengard, the Ring...
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Um, what am I wrong about?
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If you want bland "musical" sludge trowled into your ears, that's your perrogative, but I've been listening to and collecting film music for nearly 20 years, so I think I have a fairly good grasp of what's good music and what isn't. I used to LOVE James Horner cira 1992...but by 1995, I had heard pretty much every note of music he had ever written recycled a thousand fucking times. Every now and again, he writes a score where he actually seems to put some real thought and effort into (the two Zorro scores, for instance), but then he follows up with some generic kack like Avatar, and I get dragged out of the film by the dreary, unimaginative musical drivel. Avatar's stunning visuals should have been a HOME RUN for a talented composer to go nuts with lush themes and experimental orchestration, but Horner took a YEAR to (re)write THIS?!
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You call John Williams a hack. Lets look at some of the iconic music he has created shall we JAWS;CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND; E.T.; RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK; STAR WARS; EMPIRE STRIKES BACK; RETURN OF THE JEDI; THE TIME TUNNEL; LOST IN SPACE (ORIGINAL SERIES); SUPERMAN; SCHINDLERS LIST; SAVING PRIVATE RYAN; Oh and I mentioned it but just want to make sure you heard it with those obviously defective ears. He wrote the most recognizable piece of movie music in the past century. STAR WARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dumbass
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Shame on me for forgetting them. Imagine those films scored like the Narnia movies, or Iron Man, or what have you, just recycled fragments of temp track leftovers instead of Howard Shore's operatic, densely themaic music? The horror, the horror...<BR><BR>Then again, I'm speaking to a talkback community that honestly thinks Danny Elfman has written nothing but "wacky circus music" since 1988.
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May 2, 2010, 11:10 p.m. CST
Even Williams scores for small, forgotten movies are awesome
by Nasty In The Pasty
Even hear hs music for Robert Altman's Images? As far from Star Wars as you could possibly get, and absolutely brilliant. What about The Fury, Heartbeeps, Monsignor, Stanley & Iris? People always think Williams only does the "big ol' 16,000-track John Williams thang" (to quote Stephen King), but he's done pretty much every kind of score you could imagine, while still maintaining his very distinct "voice" throughout all of them. It baffles me how people can rag on a truly great film compser like Williams, then defend the HORRIBLE, droning Dark Knight score because it "works" in the context of the movie. Imagine Superman: The Movie scored like that. Awful.
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That makes all other music bad? If you want to fellate Howard Shore by all means please do so. And while Danny Elfman has had some seriously bad music outside of Batman, Beetlejuice, and Darkman (maybe NightBreed) I think you'll find his music for the recent "Wolfman" movie to be far from Circus music. But if you want to base all of your musical taste on Family Guy jokes by all means. Your just proving my initial reaction to your posts correct.
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The Fury is one of the most amazing movie scores in the last 40 years. The scene where regan's teacher get's killed while Kirk Douglas is chasing her (regan) is unique, and the main theme still haunts me to this day when I hear it.
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Most anything john williams does sounds amazing. NBC News theme anyone, guarantee some of you have ended up humming that to yourselves more than once. Damn, now it's stuck in my head just for thinking about it.
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I said that the general AICN talkback reaction whenever Elfman's name is mentioned is to bitch that he's written the same score for the last 20 years, or to whine about "wacky circus music". I personally think he's a superb composer who has written successfully in a myriad of styles over the years, and it's a shame he gets browbeaten by geeks for having an actual STYLE (or did Bernard Herrmann write the same score over and over, because he used similar devices from film to film?). You need to actually READ my posts a little closer, ttringle.<br><br>And I fucking HATED that Family Guy joke, because it just added fuel to the fire for this annoying Elfman generalization.
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May 2, 2010, 11:20 p.m. CST
Williams' Amazing Stories episode "The Mission"...
by Nasty In The Pasty
...is utter genius. One of the most suspenseful "countdown" cues I've ever heard.
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Considering Spielberg and Hanks were producing it. That would have been fantastic.
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He is a bit repetitious with the style of some of his movies, but he also dramatically changes them much as alot of composers do. Wolfman is almost unrecognizable as an elfman score and I love what he did for the first two Spiderman films. And while I hate the movie, I love his soundtrack for Planet of the Apes, even though it's now entwined with the trailer for Star Trek: Nemesis ( a movie which makes baby jesus cry ). And while I don't totally agree with the joke from Family Guy A) it was pretty damned funny and B) When you compare Elfman to Williams, it's somewhat accurate. But people are basing those things on the fact that when he got jobs early on all people wanted was music in the vein of Batman his most recognizable music for action films, or music like Beetlejuice or Pee Wee's Big Adventure, his most recognizable music for comedys. People usually don't even realize he scored movies like "Midnight Run" one of the most awesome non Elfman like tracks ever to grace the silver screen.
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May 2, 2010, 11:26 p.m. CST
Oh and as far as elfman goes he can rebut any argument with
by Tim Tringle
I wrote the song "Weird Science" what have you done lately?
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If Costco has a bargain priced four disc boxed set of the 100 greatest movie themes, it's not going to include many from the last ten years. You could include the Fellowship theme from Lord of the Rings and it would be recognized. Add in themes from Spider-Man, Pirates of the Caribbean, Up, Gladiator, The Dark Knight, and a few others, and I think the average listener would instantly know what films they are from. (You can always throw in some James Horner and get recognition--but five different people will recognize it as music from five different films.) My local theater plays movie themes while you wait for the movie to begin, and everyone recognizes Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Superman, Jurassic Park, etc. They are not throwing in the main theme from Atonement, Babel, Finding Neverland, Frida, Brokeback Mountain, or The Red Violin because they are not recognizable despite the Oscar wins. There have been some great full scores over the last decade, but instant classic individual themes are becoming rarer.
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...that to bitch about "old-school" guys like Williams, Elfman, ect., confounds me. It used to be that composers actually WROTE music out, on PAPER, before recording it. Now some toady asshole fetches Hans Zimmer a cup of coffee, and suddenly he's scoring a $200 million movie like Iron Man just by improvising random chords at a keyboard direct to the movie. In the last decade we've lost Goldsmith, Poledouris, Kamen, Shirley Walker, Elmer Bernstein, and many other class acts, and who do he wave to replace them? Right now the only "new" composers who know how to write melodic scores that brilliantly service the respective films as well as making for excellent listening on CD are Michael Giacchino and Alexandre Desplat (sometimes John Powell on select movies).
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That song is now stuck in all of your heads.
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I wouldn't call a bunch of random guitar power chords a score.
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While the Batman movies were sucking ass after Batman Returns and before Batman Begins she made a soundtrack for Mask of the Phantasm that was so good. I love Giacchino and some of the guys that work with him make some awesome music too (check out the Fringe soundtrack for examples of that).
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How do you do a new Terminator movie and refuse to use the main terminator theme hardly at all and be arrogant about it at the same time. WTF? Brad Fiedel was so original with the two Terminator movies, how the fuck did that happen? He's still alive and kicking as far as I know. That movie could have been somewhat better with the inclusion of that theme at key moments and he just blew it on that one. I can understand artistic desire to be original etc but for gods sake it's the Terminator!!
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I'll spin Rocketeer and TREK II, and that'll do it. Even the ALIENS OST is full of KHAN lifts. Williams, Goldsmith, Poledouris, Shore, and Elfman are the modern masters in descending order of magnitude. I had high hopes for Doyle after FRANKENSTEIN, but he never took off. Zimmer? Jury's out for me.
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Is still the greatest superhero theme ever composed, and I admit that as a hardcore Batfreak. You hear that fanfare, and the goosebumps appear.
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Not shocking.
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Now, obviously this is just my opinion, but I thought TDK score actually built on what was done in Batman Begins. And I don't see it as a rehash at all.
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Okay seriously, NO ONE liked his Iron Man score??
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One of my favorite film scores, The Cowboys by John Williams. Every once in awhile I start to hum it and have never forgotten it.
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coming from a guy who loved elfman/walker and who has been collecting film music for as long as you have...<p>there was a lot more going into the joker suite than just a "high-pitched screech from the strings section".<p>unfortunately, so many fans, especially those who grew up in the 70's/80's/90's have become hopelessly attached to the kind of leitmotif that you can hum after walking out of the theatre. anything else doesn't seem to register as a theme. which is a little sad, really
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Bah Bah Bah. I haven't bought a soundtrack CD since 2005
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It's easy to write a memorable score for a PIXAR film. Especially when you rip off Barry and Randy Newman. Star Trek blew chunks. The man is so grossly overrated it's painful to witness.
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How much ACDC is actually in this movie? The previews make it seems like it's all ACDC all the time.
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You are so completely wrong on so many levels.
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Just like Horner's latest shitfest.
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...film. You just can't. That's why current film scores for action films serve little purpose other than background walla. If you love action film music, stick to the stuff written in the 1970s and 1980s.
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There Will Be Blood? Because that was a pretty great score, perfectly suited to that film.
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Aliens and Star Trek 2. In fact while I was watching Avatar I heard sections of music that were lifted right out of one of those two, or maybe both, can't remember now. He was great following Goldsmith, maybe because he felt he had something to prove, but now he's just a joke. <p>Oh and Danny Elfman is great. If you don't believe he can compose scores that stand apart from his Burton scores, listen to Sommersby and A Simple Plan.
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rip-off of Batman Begins with a some metal thrown in. If you don't believe me listen to the Iron Monger track, which is pretty much typical of the entire score.
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... and THANK FUCKING GOD FOR THAT!! I don't know about you guys, but i'm pretty fucking tired of seeing Hans zimmer scoring half the movies being made in Hollywood. He can be very good and inspired and do original stuff, but for fuck's sake, Mr Zimmer, give it a bit of a rest, OK? Holywood movies are all starting to sound alike, and that's notr good. I miss diversity of movie scoring.
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well said.<p><p>and horner's best score was willow...<p><p><p>willow.
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Nothing special about that score. & I say that as someone who purchases essentially nothing but scores. Tiresome music for a film that goes nowhere over the first one.
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Willow? I'm sorry, friend, but i'll have to disagree with you on that. There's quite some pretty good scores that Horner has composed, which have stuck on my mind. Willow is not one of them. Willow's score is pretty by the numbers. Horner's best score he ever composed is, without a shadow of a doubt, for the movie GLORY. That is his crowning achievement, bar none.
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... for the film THE THIN RED LINE. his best single composition, though, might be the "Joker's theme" (the title is different, i know) for THE DARK KNIGHT. It's his most avanguard, challenging, unusual piec eof composition he ever came up with in all his career. It's as avanguard and unusual as Jerry Goldsmith's score for PLANET OF THE APES sounded for the audiences of the day. Or even today.
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was always a favourite of mine...especially that little string ditty in The Kiss
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I haven't seen the movie, but I've heard the score. It doesn't stand on its own IMO, which makes it only decent at best.<p>A great score should be listenable and enjoyable even if you haven't seen the movie. Like some of the score from "Unbreakable" (Newton Howard) or "Last Samurai" (Zimmer)
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but I honestly don't understand why anyone would want to discuss the "nuts and bolts" of a soundtrack for any movie whatsoever. I was about to ask "does anyone care about this?" but then I see all the comments here. and they obviously do. I just don't get it, I really like this site, love film, and like discussing it with my friends. But I've never spent more than a minute discussing the score for any film, and in fact it almost never comes up at all.
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i could listen to his "little things" song over and over again...i guess thats not really part of the score but more part of the soundtrack but it's still a great 80's era sounding rock song
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...Trevor Jones and Randy Edelman did.<BR><BR>And caprica, "noticing" film music is different for every movie fan, I suppose, but I *always* find myself getting more emotionally and dramatically invested in a movie that has a really good score (or else use of pre-existing music, like Tarantino has brilliantly done time and again). The Iron Man score doesn't have a shred of musical interest, and just gets buried under the cacophany of deafening sound effects in the movie, but a similar superhero movie about a hero that flies like The Rocketeer boasted a fantastic James Horner score with soaring melodies that truly sold the exhilaration of flight. With Iron Man, you can just hear The Suits musing "Huh, we can use that "I AM IRON MAAAAAAAAANNN!!!!" song for the end credits, and use METAL!!! music because the hero's SUIT is made of metal! How clever are we...?"
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...Trevor Jones and Randy Edelman did.<BR><BR>And caprica, "noticing" film music is different for every movie fan, I suppose, but I *always* find myself getting more emotionally and dramatically invested in a movie that has a really good score (or else use of pre-existing music, like Tarantino has brilliantly done time and again). The Iron Man score doesn't have a shred of musical interest, and just gets buried under the cacophany of deafening sound effects in the movie, but a similar superhero movie about a hero that flies like The Rocketeer boasted a fantastic James Horner score with soaring melodies that truly sold the exhilaration of flight. With Iron Man, you can just hear The Suits musing "Huh, we can use that "I AM IRON MAAAAAAAAANNN!!!!" song for the end credits, and use METAL!!! music because the hero's SUIT is made of metal! How clever are we...?"
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The only good thing to come out of that shitstain of a movie.
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You couldn't be more mistaken about Hans Zimmer in those references to scores. THIN RED LINE is by far his best. He doesn't go for his usual tricks, for that cliche bombastic. As DANCES WITH SAMURAIS is. aDANCES WITH SAMURAIS score is typical factory manufactured scoring. It's a Rent-A-An-Epic-Score. It's banal, been-there-done-that., and completly unremarkable. THE THIN RED LINE score, however, is it's own beast. And you have to know little to nothing about music for you to not be impressed with the track INTO THE LIGHT. a music whihc is both intimate and epic, soulful and grandiose. It's film music at it's most affecting and impressive. I'm hardly Hans Zimmer's groupie, but that score is magnificent. That's the score which he can feel most proud for, and the one that will be engraved in his tomb.
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The piece (I've forgotten the name) playing during the village raid is one of my favorite scores I've ever heard. Any other film (or Zimmer score, really) would probably play some bombastic patriotic rah-rah, but instead we had the juxtaposition of the devastatingly somber strings that just elevated the material. His work on Black Hawk Down had a lot of typical Zimmer work, but there were moments of greatness, especially "Leave No Man Behind."
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May 3, 2010, 8:52 a.m. CST
"you have to understand the complexity of the narrative"
by veteran_of_mu
Um, this is Iron Man 2. No complexity. Powered armor. Dickhead with beard in powered armor. That's Iron Man 2. And the score sucked the pus out of dead seagulls.
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That piece is called "Into The Light".
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... but i saw IRON MAN 2 and the veredict is, it's as good asa the first. No more, no less. and that's a good thing. People who are saying it's a bad movie are just plain wrong. On the other side of the sprectrum, people who are hailing it as a masterpiece and claiming it's better then THE DARK KNIGHT, that is just a whole bunch of nonsense. They are even doing the movie a great disservice. The movie is what it is, and it's a damn good piece of light-hearted entertaiment. And that's no small achievement. Many filmmakers try and fail on that. Jon Faverau should be proud of the movie he made. Everybody involved should. They achieved what they intended to make. Congratalations. Damn fine fun movie.
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You know, a lot of people said the same thing about STAR TREK.<P>Who knew!
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That score was just a complete and utter mess.
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And the point of your post is...?
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Was just more hackery, plus the Star Wars theme is just an inversion and minor variation of the Lawrence of Arabia theme. Williams gets way too much credit.
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Epic
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Who cares if it's a minor-moded inversion? The two don't sound anything alike, and the only people who care about that sort of the thing are the ones who sit and pour over sheet music. You can look at any musical work and find similarities like that. The Dark Knight's theme is two freakin notes...are you telling me that no score ever written hasn't used those two notes, or heaven forbid, an inversion of those? Bullshit.
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People have said that the Isengard theme from LOTR and the Predator theme are similar...but the orchestrations are so different that a somewhat similar melody becomes irrelevant. There's more to a piece of music than its melody; otherwise you wouldn't have orchestrations or instrumentations.
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Fantastic 4.. I must of seen that movie, twice
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How can you not remember how you declared that "fun" is not an acceptable measurement with which to enjoy a film?!
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Okey. And the point of your post is...?
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... which is quite a dissonant tempo, and very hard to compose for. The trade-off is that it createsa type of music that it gets immediatly associated with evil villains. Meanwhile the main theme from Predator is closer to a 3/3 tempo, almost like an unholy mix of a salsa and a waltz for evil.
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Unfortunatly,. it doesn't. You can recognze while it plays in the movie, but afterwards, you can't remember it quite. It's very servicable, but it's not memorable. It's not a "theme", in the way we thinkl of themes from such movies as Jaws, Raiders Of The Lost Ark, Star Wars, Jerry Goldsmith's Star Trek theme, or even Lord Of The Rings.
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Ugh, anyone with the name "Locke" should not be allowed to speak.
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...is well taken.
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I only really remember the themes from two movies last year: Star Trek and Sherlock Holmes.
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Your point is still not understandable. Really, you need to explain what was the point of your post.
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By Star Trek you mean El Abramanito's atrocity of a movie? That crap had a memorable theme? Where? What cut of the movie you saw? Because the one i saw, the msuci was crap and the emo theme sucked ass.
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May 3, 2010, 1:15 p.m. CST
MattmanReturns, i ge tit, you are refering to that music...
by AsimovLives
... used for the demise of the villain, right? The one where the choir sangs the names of the dead pets of composer Michael Giacchino. And no, i'm not joking, that was what the lyrics the choir was singing, if you doubt me, lust listen to the audio comentary of the "movie". Yeah, what a fucking memorable score!
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Really? You're not joking? If true, that's hilarious. Umm I was actually referring to the main title theme, the bombastic theme you first hear when the bigass STAR TREK title appears. I actually really like that theme, although it's overused in the film.
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May 3, 2010, 1:22 p.m. CST
Asimov - Just think about it w/ relation to your hatred of STAR
by Mr. Nice Gaius
1. You don't think "fun" counts as a legitimate reason to enjoy a film.<P>2. Lots of people enjoyed STAR TREK because they found it "fun".<P>3. You declared this opinion irrelavant as "fun" is not an acceptable form of film appreciation.<P>4. You enjoyed IRON MAN 2 because you found it to be "Damn fine fun...".<P>5. Conclusion: your opinion of IRON MAN 2 is irrelavant.<P>It's base irony (pun intended) but, apparently, you need some help figuring that out.
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No, i'm not joking, it's true. I couldn't believe it myself. It's in the audio comentary, by El Abramanito himself.<br><br>As for that end credits' theme, it's ass. It really is ass. It's both overdone, even desperate. You want to listen to a great reinvention of a Star Tek theme, check out what Jerry Goldsmith did for the ST mvoies they composed. Better yet, check out what Jerry goldsmith did for the opening theme of the TV show ST: VOYAGER. I know that show is not particulary well liked, i don't fancy it much either. Howeve,r the theme is suberb, it represents perfectly the heroicism of ST without repeating what had been done before. Here's a link, if it pelases you:<br><br>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=- DaXyxLY9fc<br><br>Remove the space, as usual in this cases and there you are. Tell me, doesn't this do the job? And how fares Giacchino's job in comparison? Very poorly.
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If you actually bothered to have read my post, the whole post, instead of just some fial coments, you would had noticed that i said that IRON MAN 2 is as good as the first movie. Which means, it's pretty darn good. That's the whole basis, that it's good. Good,y ou know? As in, quality. You really got to stop this habit of yours of only reading what you want, and start read what it is. You are better then that, friend. I'm not even recognizing you, it's as if you are possessed or something. Shake it off, man, it's not doing you any good.
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I read your whole post. What's your point?
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sucks shit...I was loving everything about Avatar until his god-awful 4 note "bad thing happened" horns kicked in. Same fucking god-cursed horn sound he used in Troy, which I could've enjoyed if not for his abortion of a score. My heart sank when I heard he was doing Avatar. Please stop having this man do your soundtracks, Cameron. Glory was good though. BTW Hans Zimmer is a god just for composing Roll Tide from Crimson Tide - the single most stirring piece of music ever made IMHO. His best overall soundtrack is Da Vinci Code though. James Newton Howard is a god too. Oh, and Giacchino's Star Trek theme kicks ass!
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Yeah I love Goldsmith's Trek work. his Klingon theme is one of my favorites. So simple yet so instantly catchy. And that Voyager theme is killer (and the only good thing about that show)... very elegant and moving. I still like Giacchino's theme. I obviously don't think it holds a candle to Goldsmith obviously. That's an impossible act to follow. But it's a big, badass theme that got my blood pumping. That being said, he relies on it too heavily. Sherlock Holmes remains my favorite score of 2009. I used to hate Hans Zimmer, but ever since the Pirates sequels he's really been coming up with some fantastic new stuff. At World's End is possibly my favorite score of the past five years.
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I too am sick to fucking death of that 4-note motif. I wanted to be sad when Michelle Rodriguez blows up in Avatar, but Horner single-handedly ruined scenes like for me with that fucking "theme".
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and the music kicks in...Goosebumps baby! I dunno, maybe I'm a simple man but that cue just DID it for me!
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The Adiemus bulshit music was just vomit inducing!! Really, why James Horner? Why? I don't get it, i really don't get why people keep hiring James Horner for movie scores. I mean, this hack isn't even cheap, you know? He must earn one million dollars per score. Does this guy's music is worth one million dollars? I wouldn't buy it for a dollar! How can i ressurect Jerry Goldsmith and Basil Pouledoris?
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The single finest film score in history.
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Can you tell me where was the guiy i had interesting conversations about THE ROAD and all things Cormac McCarthy? I miss that guy. When you find him, tell him to show up.
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Well, i place Pouledoris's Conan score in a second place after Vangelis' BLADE RUNNER. A very close second.
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you plucked the thought right outta my brain regarding sad Avatar moments.
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My favorite film score of 2009 is for the film MOON by Clint Mansell. It is the best music done for a movie bar none else made that year. That's what i call a film core. It works great in thye movie, and it works great on it's own. Best of both worlds.
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You are refering to the scene in Robert Wise's STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE, right? The msuic for that scene composed by Jerry Goldsmith is almost beyond description, how good it is.<br><br>Well, i assume you are talkign about that scene in that movie. you certainly cannot be talking about that stupid scene with the bad music in that horrible movie "directed" by El Abramanito. You can't!
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The new Star Trek! Sorry, I just liked it... awesome theme, awesome timing, maybe I've got simplistic taste, but that shit hit me!
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"Recovery" by Basil Pouledoris will be played at my funeral. I love that soundtrack like I love my mother. Ok, I'm done posting my random thoughts. Thanks for listening
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grunge 4evah!!!
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....and Michael Giacchio should have won the Oscar for that, not UP.
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that's cool!
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oh i do love me the score from glory, but my love for the willow score comes from the fact that horner, after aliens, was feeling wildly experimental in regards to percussion. especially telling of this is the "escape from the tavern" cue. yea, i'll respectfully disagree with it being by the numbers. he certainly knew how to make use of a choir though. this is true of both willow and glory.
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Howard's work on the Batman films is so drowned out by the typical Zimmer sound that I don't know why he even signed on after Batman Begins. That man can do some incredible work (The Village is a masterpiece and works wonders in the film...the track "I Cannot See His Color" is one of the most brilliant musical depictions of agony I've ever heard). So no one should blame him if one doesn't like TDK's score. That's Zimmer's doing.
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by mentioning a track that doesn't even exist.<p>It's LIGHT, not "INTO THE LIGHT"<p>It is a fine piece of music, but I think "A Hard Teacher" and "A Way of Life" in the Last Samurai are better.<p>While I agree that Light is more "epic", I'm usually not into "epic" scores. I like the quiet, really intimate ones. Where the volume level/tone is practically the same the whole way through. It may have little rises here and there, but not 'swells' of emotion.<p>Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
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Ugh...what score are you listening to? It's themeless and has practically no melodies or harmonies; it just drones on and on. Maybe its austerity is deliberate, but how then can anyone connect to the music? It's not even listenable.
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That movie sucked so much ass.
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Thanks, RPL, I'll stop liking it, then.
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Kiss ass.
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But thanks for noticing.
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"It's themeless and has practically no melodies or harmonies"<p>wrong on both counts. but don't take my word for it:<p>http://tinyurl.com/236egvo<p>now whether you like this theme is a different and altogether subjective matter. i for one appreciate subtle and atmospheric leitmotif that doesn't insist upon itself, serving to create mood, rather than just musically announcing characters and situations.
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Overseas. My ass will be in a seat Friday!
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Themes don't just "musically announce" characters (if they're good themes); they say something about the character and they evolve, switch from major to minor, are manipulated, inverted, combined with other themes, and a thousand other things to fit the journey of whatever it is they represent. LOTR did this brilliantly; often you're listening to a piece of music and not even realizing that it's actually a theme because it's been manipulated so skillfully. A theme like Moon's is hardly like that. It never changes and there's no complexity; anyone can sit at a keyboard and hammer out two notes. No one will remember it ten years down the road.
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i'm well aware of what good themes do. my issue there is the ridiculously narrow definition of what a theme is to so many fans. is it any wonder that when the topic of themes comes up that the only examples that come up are epics, fantasy sagas and adventure films? unless the movie has a theme played bombastically by a full orchestra at least once in the movie, it doesn't register on the "proper theme" meter of the mind of the leitmotif dependent fan. apparently there is no room for subtlety...oh unless it's a subtle version of an already broadly stated theme. my main point was to address your claim that moon had no theme and a lack of melody and harmony. and the score for moon actually does have complexity and all of the other qualities you attribute to the use of good themes. i certainly heard it. there is a lot more going on there than just hammering two notes on a keyboard. as far as how memorable it is...it will clearly be remembered by a minority of film score fans that appreciate more atmospheric and subtle music. it's lack of popularity will say nothing of its quality.
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