Elston Gunn Interviews HARRY BROWN Director Daniel Barber (Part 1 Of 2)!!

Hello. Elston Gunn here... For fifteen years, British filmmaker Daniel Barber has been traveling the globe, shooting commercials and developing his directorial chops. His short film, THE TONTO WOMAN, based on a short story by Elmore Leonard, earned the director an Oscar nomination for Best Live Action Short Film in 2008. Last year, Barber helmed his first feature, HARRY BROWN (official site HERE), a modestly-budgeted story, starring Sir Michael Caine and Emily Mortimer. It centers on a widower (Caine) in South London, who decides to take matters into his own hands concerning young violent criminals in his neighborhood. If you're simply wanting to see a film where Michael Caine plays a badass, look no further. Harry Brown makes The Punisher look like Barney Fife. (How's that for a pull quote?) You can't keep your eyes off Caine - whether out of curiosity or comfort. And while the concept of "there's nothing scarier than a man who has nothing left to lose" isn't new to cinema, Caine and Barber have tried to craft a contemporary take with enough breathing room for the audience to ponder the motivations of the characters and the ills of London society. For all of its moments of intensity, the film is pleasantly, surprisingly simple and subtle in the right places. The film opened in the UK in November and has sparked some debate in England to the point of being used as an example by a Conservative candidate in the current election campaign. Samuel Goldwyn Films is opening it in select cities in the US this weekend. For more on HARRY BROWN, visit the film's website. Earlier this week, Barber answered some questions for AICN. He couldn't have been more affable and generous with his time - so much so that we're going to present the interview in two parts. (Often, I find the moments one may be quick to cut out of an interview are generally the most entertaining and telling. Therefore, unlike, say, one of the characters in HARRY BROWN, the following was spared the knife.)

PART ONE

[ELSTON GUNN]: So, you're nominated for an Oscar for your short film, THE TONTO WOMAN, and people like Michael Caine and Matthew Vaughn want to work with you. One of your cameramen suggests this screenplay, you like it, and then it all comes together pretty easily, right? [DANIEL BARBER]: Kind of, yeah. I mean, it was slighly more convoluted because the screenplay, which a friend of mine, Ben Davis, the cameraman, recommended I read, was actually a different screenplay, but it happened to be a screenplay which Kris Thykier, the producer, was producing. So, [Kris and I] got on really well and he explained to me that as much as he would love for me to do the other film, I couldn't, because it was being made with Miramax and Miramax don't work with first time directors… even though I'd been nominated for an Oscar. [laughs] So, ultimately, what happened is he said to me, “Listen, I've got this other script, which I'd really like you to do, would you read it?” I said, “Yeah, of course.” I read it, and I really liked it, and that was HARRY BROWN.
[EG]: You've said that the screenplay needed work when you came onboard. Was it just a matter of taking out what wasn't needed? There's not a lot of dialogue, really, in the first half of the movie. It's very visual. [DB]: Yeah, I mean, basically, I developed the script because I felt that a lot of the dialogue in it wasn't necessary - that it could be done filmically and visually. And I think it was a matter of honing it. A lot of the scenes in the film I developed to try and make as interesting as I could. A lot of the action scenes were developed such that I was trying to make them different and unusual and stand out, really. I think initially the script was good as a basic story, but it lacked intensity and it lacked the particularity of a vision, if you like, of someone who could come on and give it a very particular direction. So, that's kind of what I do, really, although I'd like to do more of it. It was great and Gary Young, the writer, was great. Because he's very grown up, he's got a great attitude. I said to him, “Oh, listen, I've got some thoughts and I'd like to develop the script.” He says, “Oh, that's fine. I always knew whoever directed it would come on and would change things and develop things.” And he was really helpful, actually, in that process. He wasn't at all obstructive, so it became really interesting. And he's a great guy, it was really nice to work with him. I developed it with him, but also with the cameraman, Martin Ruhe, as well. Because Martin and I are friends - very good friends - and he would say to me, “Well, you know, I don't think that scene is as good as it could be. I think you need to try and make it better.” So, I would sit down and try to work out what i thought would make it more interesting. And I wanted the film to stand out. I wanted it to be a strong piece and I didn't want it to be cliched. So, I tried very hard to make all the scenes as strong as they could be and to make them as intense as they might be. For example, the scene with the drug dealers I wanted to make that as intense and as hard to watch as possible - to build up the tension, to get the audience to the point where they couldn't take any more. And just when they couldn't take any more, it went on. And when they really couldn't take any more, it still went on. And then it went on again and it was relentless. I love cinema that makes you feel something and becomes an experience. I'm not a great fan of cinema which when you go see a movie and the most interesting thing is maybe the pizza you have afterwards in the evening. That's where I come from, really. I do it because I love it. I certainly didn't do it for the money, that's for sure. I did it because i'm passionate and I really want to make strong pieces of film and cinema, and tell stories. But, you know, this is one very particular type of story, if you like, and it's my first film. THE TONTO WOMAN as a short piece - as a long short piece - is a very different piece. It's a very feminine, sensitive, sort of melancholic piece in a way and it's really different from HARRY BROWN. But I want to do different films, different things. I don't want to be known for a very particular style of cinema, or a particular type of story.
[EG]: Well, it's certainly not your typical vigilante crime film. In fact, I saw where someone compared the beginning of the film to Ken Loach. [DB]: Yeah.
[EG]: So we have kind of a Ken Loach-meets-vigilante justice amalgam. Are you okay with that comparison? What was it you wanted to do differently with this kind of film? [DB]: Well, what I think what's interesting is that people always seem to be about trying to pigeonhole things. So, whatever you do in film people are always going to say, “Well, it's a bit like this and a bit like that… or it's like this and that. If you like this, then you'll like that and if you don't like this, then you won't like it.” Do you know what I mean?
[EG]: Yes. [DB]: So, I just find that a little disheartening, to be honest. Because as much as I very much like the work of Ken Loach - and this film at parts is presented in a realistic way, but it's presented in a realistic way with a style that is not Ken Loach - the story is so not Ken Loach, that anyone who might compare it to a Ken Loach film surely doesn't know anything about Ken Loach, to be quite frank. So, it becomes slightly bizarre and I think for me, personally, it’s much more… I wanted it to have the impact and drama and effect that a film like TAXI DRIVER had, you know. I wanted it to really transport people to somewhere they didn't necessarily want to be, but they felt they had no choice but to be, and to enjoy, hopefully. I mean, the reaction I've had from audiences that I've sat with watching it has been, for the most part, very favorable. But some people have said to me, “My God, that was quite an experience.” And for me, that's a great critique of the film to have, rather than “That was a nice film,” or “oh, that was really nice, yeah.”
[EG]: Was the script written with Michael Caine in mind? [DB]: I think it was. I mean, I think Gary always had in his mind that it could be, it might be Michael Caine. And I think he was great, Michael… I don't know if you know the story, but basically, he really liked the script and I met him for lunch, actually, with Kris. I was very nervous meeting a hero, an icon, like that and I could hardly eat. I couldn't concentrate on what I was doing. It’s funny, because on the way there my sister phoned me and immediately she said, “Are you okay? You sound terrible.” And I said, “Oh, I’m sorry. I’m just really nervous.” She said, “Well, what’s wrong?” I said, “Oh, I'm just going to have lunch with Michael Caine.” And she said to me, “Well, what are you nervous about?” I said, “What do you mean what am I nervous about?! I’m going to have lunch with Michael. Caine.” And she said to me, “Well, it's like having lunch with grandpa, isn't it?” And I said, “Yeah… I suppose so.” [laughs] He was great. He was so nice, because I think he knew he could see that i was a bit nervous. It was quite funny, actually, because I thought well I better wear a suit. I mean, I’m meeting Sir Michael Caine, I better wear a suit, you know. And I never wear a suit, so I got my bah mitvah suit out and squeezed into that. I turned up at the restaurant and, of course, he’s in jeans and a casual shirt [laughs] and sneakers, and I'm in this fucking suit, which is about four sizes too small. Anyway, so he was very sweet, and I sat at the table and undid my trousers a bit, as you do, do you know what I mean?
[EG]: Right. [DB]: And he said to me, “Do you like seafood?” And I said, “Yeah, I do. I do like seafood, yeah.” He said, “Good, ‘cause this is the best seafood restaurant in London.” And I said, “Oh, great.” He said, “What are you going to have?” I said, “Oh, I don’t know really.” He said, “I always have the same thing. I have the seafood cocktail and I have the fish and chips.” And I said, “Oh, well, I’ll probably have the same as you, then, I think.” Because I was too nervous to hold the menu. The waiter comes over and he just looks at the waiter. Then, he points at himself and me and said, “We’ll have two of what I have.” [laughs] So, the waiter sort of nods and goes off. He’s hilarious. He said to me at the end of the meal, he said, “Did you like your seafood salad?” I said, “Oh yeah, it was really nice.” He said, “How many prawns did you have in yours?” I said, “I don’t know. I didn’t really count them.” He said, “Oh, I had seven. And if I didn’t have seven, they’d hear about it.” [laughs]
[EG]: [laughs] That’s great. [DB]: He’s so funny. He was brilliant. In the meal, he said to me, “I really like this script…” honestly, this is what he said, “but I’ll tell you why I'm here. I saw this short film you made, and I watched it with my wife, and we just fell in love with it.” And he said, ”I want to work with you.” He said, “I think you’re good and I want to do a film with you.” That’s what he said to me.
[EG]: You can't ask for more than that. But it's a return to those gritty kind of roles he did four decades ago, so was he at all reluctant to do the film because of GET CARTER, THE ITALIAN JOB, or any of those movies he did earlier in his career? He was even in the GET CARTER remake as well. [DB]: Well, I think the thing about THE ITALIAN JOB… THE ITALIAN JOB is probably quite a stylized film, more comedic, and I think GET CARTER has more of a gritty realism about it and it’s based in a truth of that period in time, which is a long time ago now - the 60s. And I think HARRY BROWN is a very modern piece - it’s very of today in Britain - and I think Michael Caine is a man who is very much aware of what worse-for-wear British society is at the moment. It’s a film that makes its points based on the facts of what’s going on in our country, and he wanted to be a part of a film that did that. And, you know, we had many chats on the film where I would say to him, “That was really interesting what you did there, but I felt that you were a bit ‘Michael Caine’ for me and I want you to be Harry Brown.” So, he was really good with that, Michael, and he worked very hard at being the character. And so, as much as the character does things that he would never do, he’s a great actor and he threw himself one hundred twenty percent into the role. Michael’s not a violent man, but this is about the man who’s brought to violence because there seems to be no other way and not quite as simplistic as a base vigilante film. Once again, the comparison with DEATH WISH is very easy to make, but it’s not really a great comparison to make not if you look at the two films very carefully. One is a sensationalist piece born of a period of cinema and it was made very cynically, I think. But HARRY BROWN is not made cynically, it’s made with great love. [laughs]
[EG]: I like that we see his vulnerable side as much as we do his tough side. [DB]: Yeah.
[EG]: And we also see his age -- the moment where he wants to see the video on the cell phone, so he hands it to the younger guy and says, "Make it work." [DB]: I’m really glad you picked up on things like that. Because when we were developing the script, I remember we talked about that and I said, “No, I think it’s a good thing, because he wouldn’t no how to work it.” And, you know, people are going, “Well, yeah, but don’t you think it’s funny?” Well, maybe it’s slightly funny, but it’s very much a sign of the times and how would he know how to work that thing - it’s crazy. So, yeah, I mean, I wanted it to be as real as possible. It is quite a realistic piece. You may may look at it and think “my goodness, but are those things really happening?” But I can assure you that the police I worked with on the film helped me understand and made me very aware that what was going on in the film was nowhere near as bad as some of the realities that they have had to deal with.
[EG]: What's your response to David Cox's criticism in THE GUARDIAN that the "film's dissociation from any discernible reality limits its effectiveness as drama?" Or that Caine and the film could be used to sway people to switch from Labour to Conservative? (details HERE) [DB]: Well, I think, to David Cox, I would say this… that when your reality as David Cox is that you live in Hampstead Garden Suburb, or Mayfair, or Islington, your reality of what London life is about is, in fact, so divorced from the reality, that it’s very difficult for you to understand what the reality is. You know, if you’re a middle class GUARDIAN-reading intelligentsia person, then what do you possibly understand of what is going on on the streets of London? And the reality is that David Cameron of the Conservative party has seen the film and very much liked it. And it’s the reason - that because of that film - he invited Michael Caine to get on board with him and what he’s trying to do in this election campaign in England at the moment. So, you know, I think it’s kind of funny in a way. But I have to say, those kind of comments make me laugh, really, because they’re written by people who are so divorced from reality that their bottoms are so far up their asses, they don’t really know what’s going on.
[EG]: Back to another one of the movie’s moments, I like the scene where he talks about studying Bobby Fischer's chess strategies. In most films, that would be brought back later in the film, but you don't belabor it, nor do you needlessly delve deeply into Harry’s backstory. Was it a conscious effort on your part to keep with the "less is more" idea? [DB]: Very much so, yeah, and majorly a point to try and treat audiences with intelligence - not to labor things. You know, audiences now - especially young audiences - are very visually literate. They get it quick. You don't need to labor things and, you know, as a modern piece, I wanted to appeal to younger audiences. It had a slow pace at the beginning, which is unusual for a film aimed at the main cinema-going audience, but it slowly increases. And once it gets going, it doesn't really stop, does it?
[EG]: No. [DB]: And so, it's that pace. You know, I think there are some things you do need to mention twice, or might work well as a reprise, but it didn't seem necessary in this case. I think we're understanding from the film more about him. We're building a great picture of his character and his psyche, you know. This is an intelligent man, who feels that [he has to act] because nothing else is going to be done. I think the strategy you might employ with chess is sort of his upbringing as a Marine, and his knowledge of strategy and how to deal with things comes to bear. It's almost like a game of chess he's playing. He's far too good for these kids, though.
In Part 2, Barber discusses Emily Mortimer's character, avoidance of emulating other filmmakers, his test screening experience and what's next.
Elston Gunn elstongunn@hotmail.com http://www.myspace.com/elstongunnaicn