April 21, 2010, 1:42 a.m. CST
April 21, 2010, 1:44 a.m. CST
I doubt the Avengers will be a Jackson vehicle. He is almost certainly going to have a more prominant role than his cameo in IM, but its not like he'll be the star of the flick.
April 21, 2010, 1:46 a.m. CST
hope the Avengers movie actually happens after all this build-up.
April 21, 2010, 1:50 a.m. CST
April 21, 2010, 1:51 a.m. CST
It makes sense.
April 21, 2010, 1:55 a.m. CST
April 21, 2010, 1:56 a.m. CST
April 21, 2010, 2:05 a.m. CST
No Loki, no original plot, it's all there in the Ultimates. Do that.
April 21, 2010, 2:07 a.m. CST
This is a Avengers movie not a S.H.E.I.L.D. movie.
April 21, 2010, 2:13 a.m. CST
If you actually read the article and not just the individual remarks, you'd realize that he's not saying the film is about him, just that the film is presently the only one in the works with Fury in a leading role.
April 21, 2010, 2:13 a.m. CST
April 21, 2010, 2:14 a.m. CST
... knowing the fucktards on this site, nobody will read my comment and then launch in gigantic tirades over a story that's not even accurate, all thanks to AICN's continuing quest for sensationalism.
April 21, 2010, 2:14 a.m. CST
by V. von Doom
DOOM feels some concern for this production. Putting together a lot of big-name actors means someone will be stiffed for screen time, "money shots", dialogue, you-name-it.<p>The regular "Avengers" comic can afford to do that because the fanboys can read about the big guns in other comics. The "ensemble" Avengers who don't carry their own regular books generally get more time in the team book.<p>Expect to see clashing egos. No matter how well the actors are capable of working together, someone's going to bitch. Loudly.<p>DOOM predicts the ones to stiffed the most will be the actresses playing supporting characters in the other movies. They will be reduced to cameos, or worse. Forget Pepper, forget Sif, forget Sharon Carter ...<p>... unless the plot involves them being kidnapped by the villain. Then they can pant for rescue. ("Oh, SAVE me, Cap!")
April 21, 2010, 2:15 a.m. CST
There's something so bland about that.
April 21, 2010, 2:16 a.m. CST
Go check out Latino Review...Someone asked SLJ if he was getting his own Nick Fury movie and he said something to the effect of The Avengers being as close as he's getting to a standalone Nick Fury flick. Fact checkin', yo!
April 21, 2010, 2:18 a.m. CST
Is what threat can they come up with that requires the Avengers in the first place? Hulk himself is a decent bet but even if in the first half of the movie it's Hulk going apeshit, the second half will be about who or what set him off and that who or what will have to be someone BADASS in that the climax will need all of the Avengers to team up and take them out.
April 21, 2010, 2:19 a.m. CST
Uninspired Unoriginal tripe. Its like Taking comic book character and taking the "Comic Book" out of it.
April 21, 2010, 2:20 a.m. CST
by V. von Doom
Read the article, not the AICN headline. Ever heard of "bait and switch", folks?
April 21, 2010, 2:21 a.m. CST
April 21, 2010, 2:26 a.m. CST
Other than I think it's interesting this column went up at like, O middle of the night.
April 21, 2010, 2:38 a.m. CST
Nick Fury is going to be responsible for assembling the Avengers not Tony Stark. This isn't Iron Man 3.
April 21, 2010, 2:41 a.m. CST
Loki. He basically turned the Hulk apeshit against the team. My money is on that being the hook for The Avengers flick. Good stuff, I say. And fuck whoever didn't like The Ultimates. Say what you want about Millar but the story was great and Bryan Hitch's art was cinematic. Suggested read for all of you Marvel virgins out there. Just do yourselves a favor and skip Ultimates 3.
April 21, 2010, 2:45 a.m. CST
You are right on the money.
April 21, 2010, 2:47 a.m. CST
he told us that Mother & Child come out the same day, then informed everyone to choose Mother & Child. i'll listen to the man. damn good movie and hes damn good in it.
^^^^^ i meant that mother and child comes out the same day as iron man 2...
April 21, 2010, 2:49 a.m. CST
then Cause I find the Ultimates is a cop out Like Comic Books for people who dont like Comic Books.
April 21, 2010, 3:07 a.m. CST
And love The Ultimates (and Kick-Ass and Wanted and pretty much everything else Millar has written). <p> I do agree wholeheartedly that Ultimates 3 (written not by Millar but by former "Heroes" mainstay Jeph Loeb) was a real hunk of shit.
April 21, 2010, 3:11 a.m. CST
As opposed to what it used to be called, you know, 'MARVEL's Avengers'. Even before Marvel themselves have officially announced him as director. Not to say that Marvel above that level of stupidity or cheapness. <p> <p> I also liked Joss Whedon's Serenity - that one did really well in the theaters. $38 Million Worldwide blockbuster!! Gangbusters!! <p> <p> And also Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman - that one was a blast. Epic. Sweeping action. Grand Story. Transcendental dialog...... Oh wait......
April 21, 2010, 3:12 a.m. CST
Ultimates was a pile of shit IMO. And yeah, I know a lot of people are going to bash me for saying that but let me ask you, what is the point in reading about child hero archetypes acting unheroic and psychotic? Yeah, I know, that makes them more realistic. But you know what would be even more realistic than super-heroes with psychosis and who aren't really heroic? Anything without super-heroes in it. <P> You can't have grown up super-hero stories. Sorry, but that is an oxymoron.
April 21, 2010, 3:16 a.m. CST
it focuses on one event that happened one time in Hank Pyms life and made him all about that<p> It was bad enough that for 20 years that the avengers would back tread to that and never mention how he had been under a mental assault for months preceding it<p> Decasedof character development, erased and the character reduced to one event, replayed and revisited for more decades
April 21, 2010, 3:16 a.m. CST
But I consider myself somewhat of a pop culture snob. I'm quick to call crap crap if the name suits it. The ultimate universe is all about untangling the 50 - 70 years of Marvel continuity. Basically boiling characters down to their essences while modernizing them at the same time. While I haven't read EVERY Ultimate book out there, I was fortunate to grab all of the Millar/Hitch run and I can definitely say that it is way ahead of its time. Not a "comic book" comic book you say? Well there's still a genetically altered super-soldier, God of thunder, a billionaire in flying armor, irradiated behemoth...it's definitely retained the comic book flavor before you even mention the action! And it's got an actual message to it. A very allegorical message but still. Surrender? Does the 'A' on my head stand for France?? Over the top AND awesome simultaneously.
April 21, 2010, 3:19 a.m. CST
by Talkbacker with no name
April 21, 2010, 3:20 a.m. CST
Right about the plot of The Avengers movie? Sam Jackson not being the star of the Avengers? Or how awesome the first two Ultimates volumes are?
April 21, 2010, 3:26 a.m. CST
by Talkbacker with no name
That's cool, but you are wrong about it being a oxymoron. Since when were stories about super heroes just for kids? Two words for you while we are on the greek theme...greek mythology.
April 21, 2010, 3:30 a.m. CST
Ultimates 2 spoilers *** If the hook is the Hulk going apeshit in the movie...it's a good bet Loki could be the bad ass pulling the strings. In Ultimates 2, he basically frames Thor for leaking info which leads to Shield incarcerating him and to Bruce Banner getting executed (seemingly) and America getting overrun and briefly taken over by foreign superpowered bad guys....just to fuck with Thor. Now that is bad ass.
April 21, 2010, 3:37 a.m. CST
Needs to be reminded that he mined 2 or 3 classic Kirby/Lee storylines for inspiration for his Ultimates run. It's all just pop eating itself. And at the core, Marvel heroes were always grown ups with grown up problems.
April 21, 2010, 3:46 a.m. CST
Yes. Not sure. Yes. <p> I checked to see how many comics fans stuck with Millar's Ultimates. Apparently it built an OK following: http://bit.ly/ccF1EK
April 21, 2010, 3:52 a.m. CST
But no need to worry, it won't be the normal 616 Universe, it won't be Ultimate Universe. We will be treated to the Marvel Movie Universe in all it's glory.
April 21, 2010, 3:52 a.m. CST
I'm over Samuel Jackson. The dude is the same motherfuckin character in all his motherfuckin movies.
April 21, 2010, 4:08 a.m. CST
They might share common elements, but they also have huge differences. You want to make something for adults that is like the myths, fine. Just don't put a bunch of super-hero trappings and tropes with it then because it naturally makes it childish. Secret identities, code names, incredible powers, bright costumes, etc. All of these things are child wish fulfillment fantasies. <P> And if you really want to make a new Greek myth, don't be basing them on characters explicitly made for kids. You can try and update the Hulk for adults, but the idea of "Hulk Smash" is kid speak and reminds us what he was intended for - a character for kids to relate too. <P> I don't mind adult fantasy, but the super hero genre itself (such as Spider-Man and Superman) is naturally geared towards kids. The symbolism and themes are ones of empowerment and wish fulfillment. Only Batman can be made relatively adult because of his pulp roots, and even then do you think it would have done any business or be taken seriously if it was a hard R and directed like a Scorsese or Coppola gangster movie? The mere presence of a guy in costume makes something less serious and realistic. <p> When they can come up with a super-hero movie that fits in the same universe as The French Connection or Apocalypse Now, you can tell me I am wrong.
April 21, 2010, 4:15 a.m. CST
They were metaphors for kids and teenagers and the problems they had. Spider-Man was a kid. The Hulk represented children - angry, inarticulate, and feared and hated. The X-Men represented teenagers trying to find themselves. Even Thor with his struggle of going against his father to do what he thought was right. <P> And yeah, they mined 2 or 3 classic Kirby stories and then made something horrible out of them. Sorry, but the characters in the Ultimates were the Avengers in name only, In fact, they were bizarro Avengers, taking each character and making them a parody of themselves. Like someone said above, Hank Pym became ONLY the abusive husband. Captain America was turned into something he never was, the jingoistic jarhead. Hulk into a creature of pure id instead of the character whose monstrous appearance hid a childlike being. <p> The Ultimates was the simply and uninspired idea of taking super-heroes and making them ugly and unheroic. And I ask, what is the point of that?
April 21, 2010, 4:35 a.m. CST
by Steve Rogers
...and in the Ultimate books, I believe Fury lost the eye after tangling with Wolverine... now obviously the X-Men are owned by Fox and can't appear in a Marvel movie... but HOLY SHEEIT.
April 21, 2010, 4:38 a.m. CST
by Mr Gorilla
I totally agree with you. Myths are adult stories that get to grips with teh psychology of life, death, love, loss, growing up etc. They are not always easy. They are not all versions of Spider-Man or Luke Skywalker. They are massively varied, even though they may share common ingredients. One thing that depresses me is just how SIMILAR the current superhero movies are. And unchallenging. Did IRON MAN really give us anything that wasn't explored much more provocatively in ROBOCOP? Was SPIDER-MAN much different from SUPERMAN?
April 21, 2010, 4:39 a.m. CST
No way in hell.
April 21, 2010, 4:55 a.m. CST
Will that be the official title of the fukking Movie?Who really enjoyed watching Buffy or Firefly anyway?
April 21, 2010, 4:57 a.m. CST
John Wayne(ultimate chewin tobaco cowboy), Humphrey Bogart(intense, myterious) and Gregory Peck(tall, tough, commanding, yet noble).
April 21, 2010, 5 a.m. CST
has classically awful taste in everything. The guy is just the definition of a philistine. he's also indicative of a very awful form of fanboy, the kind that claims to love something but simultaneously has only the most base understanding of said thing. If you think the Avengers movie should be based off of Millars Ultimates then you don't like comic books, you like silly rips off cynical, faux deconstructionist crap. Stick to talking about your fucking boob tube shows, it's where your brand of bad taste can do the least damage.
April 21, 2010, 5:01 a.m. CST
by Mr. Profit
Midway through the movie. I can't stand him, and it sucks he is Nick Fury. And no not because he's Black. Because he's fucking overrated. Jeffrey Dean Morgan would have made a better Fury.
April 21, 2010, 5:02 a.m. CST
make comics for adults without devolving into pop culture aping crap like what Mark (borrow from everyone and give NOTHING back" Millar does. Take a look at Geoff Johns and Ed Brubaker.
April 21, 2010, 5:04 a.m. CST
on these motherfucking comic books!<p> "People getting jacked in this movie."-Sam Jackson talking about Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones<p> Perhaps, he was referring to the people who bought tickets to the movie.
April 21, 2010, 5:22 a.m. CST
by Mr Nicholas
April 21, 2010, 5:36 a.m. CST
Maybe you guys aren't fans of the acid-fried Limey writers like Grant Morrison, Warren Ellis & Alan Moore, but I wouldn't generally recommend most of their stuff to children. That's not to mention non-straightforward Superhero books like Cerebus and Ex Machina. I don't see why comic books have to be permanently lumbered with that golden age gee whizz vibe. That may be what you guys grew up with, but when so many writers spend so much brainpower trying to bring superheroes to life, yes, I think it's safe to say they become more than just fanciful childish fantasies. It's a genre with its own tropes, but apart from that writers can take it any direction they please and cater to whomsoever they want. This has given us such awesome adult works as Top Ten, Doom Patrol and Astro City. They may not be Dostoyevsky, but I wouldn't write them off altogether because of their genre. If you did that, you might as well call all anime taboo porn and all romantic comedies chick-flicks.
April 21, 2010, 5:47 a.m. CST
Grant Morrison, Warren Ellis & Alan Moore happen to be my three favorite guys besides Millar. <p> IndustryKiller, do you judge fans of Morrison, Ellis and Moore philistines as well?
April 21, 2010, 5:54 a.m. CST
by Talkbacker with no name
but what's your point? I don't see where I defended Millar one bit. In fact I was making the same point as you. Maybe I wasn't clear, but when I said "you are wrong about it being a oxymoron" I was reffering to the superhero genre and not Millar's work. I'm not even really a fan of much he has done.
April 21, 2010, 5:55 a.m. CST
by Talkbacker with no name
I mean "there are ways to make comics for adults" and nothing else.
April 21, 2010, 5:56 a.m. CST
I don't mind comic books written for adults, but lets be honest the entire concept of the super-hero genre is juvenile. That is the appeal of them. Top Ten, Doom Patrol an Astro City constantly bring up the ludicrous nature of the concepts and both praise and mock them, but I would also add all three of those comics you listed also love the whiz bang nature of comics books and bask in it. <p> Comic book characters when they work appeal to 11 year old boys, and that which remains inside every man, without irony, self-mocking, hipsterism, and tragic coolness. <p> And yes, occasionally you can try and make a super-hero comic that caters to adults, but even that is deconstruction or revisionism and will only appeal to a smaller crowd. Marvel is trying to appeal to a mass audience with it's movies, not cater to an isolated group who want comics and super-heroes to only appeal to people who have read the last 20 years of DC and Marvel and know continuity by heart.
April 21, 2010, 6:01 a.m. CST
by Talkbacker with no name
April 21, 2010, 6:09 a.m. CST
by Axl Z
Or Marv in the cinemas anyway, an off shoot like Marvel Knights.. I'm just hoping that KickAss is in MarvelVsCapcom3, that would Kick Ass!!
April 21, 2010, 6:11 a.m. CST
by Axl Z
When ge talks to Tony about setting up a team? I took it for that rightaway!
April 21, 2010, 6:18 a.m. CST
What absolute rubbish. There is nothing inherently juvenile about the SuperHero genre. It allows for some of the most insightful examinations of humanity, morals, ethics and the entire range of human emotions and relationships. Very complex and deep stuff that just happens to have cool action sets on the surface. If you can't see past that, then that's a shame.
April 21, 2010, 6:26 a.m. CST
that comics, as a medium, are one of the best ways of retaining information. Words+pictures. I don't see why every comic ever made has to be of the po-faced, "Powers...fading...must... somehow...save kitten...from tree..." variety just because you say so. I do genuinely get the appeal of the Kirby and Lee era- you get to visit a primary-coloured, good & evil version of reality for 23 pages- but to say that all comics should stick to that formula without ever shaking it up is a little myopic if you ask me. You're not even using the words "superhero comics," you're just saying "comics" full stop. I'm guessing that indie comics aren't your bag, but there are quite a few which are genuinely inspired, like Blankets and Acme Novelty Library. <p> Why a medium can't ever transcend its roots, just because you say so, I'm not sure. I do honestly agree that the constant Superhero deconstructionism is getting a bit much, but I reckon that's because these guys are using the comics they grew up on as a launching pad to take the medium somewhere else, somewhere more personal and far out. Maybe they don't cater for you, but they sure as shit are tailor-made for me.
April 21, 2010, 6:34 a.m. CST
They're telling the same thing to Downey and Norton, maybe even Evans and whoever the Thor guy is again. "Yeah, babe, major star vehicle for YOU despite the ensemble thing!"
April 21, 2010, 6:44 a.m. CST
wanted tried to hard to be cool, same for kick ass and his run on the Ultimates made Cap.America look like a total asshole
April 21, 2010, 6:46 a.m. CST
Sam Jackson may LOK like the Nick Fury of "Ultimate Avengers", but I hope that is all they take from that series! The comic and especially the animated movies were a complete abortion!
April 21, 2010, 6:50 a.m. CST
Now THAT I'd pay to read...it would be like the regular Kai Mah'gra... only clever, witty, smart, interesting, risk-taking, not repetitive, and occasionally it might throw in a musical number.
April 21, 2010, 6:51 a.m. CST
by I AM ROCKO
...no fucking way. Look at box office for Sherlock Holmes- Downey Jr is mega hot right now- guys think he is cool- babes love him, IM2 will solidify his position. Jackson may have a bigger role- of the biggest role the marketing will focus on Downey Jr more- and if Thor is massive and new guy popular- then adios Sam in the credits to "and Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury"...
April 21, 2010, 6:58 a.m. CST
by V. von Doom
It's clear that when you call comics "juvenile" it is not meant as a putdown. (Some of the talkbackers, however, ARE juvenile, and that IS meant as a putdown ...)<p>DOOM assumes you've also read Joseph Campbell on heroic archetypes. The hero's battle with the enemy is symbolic of the child's rebellion against the parents in order to grow and reach the end of the struggle.<p>In that sense, superhero comics are distilled Campbellian heroic journeys, except that they are drawn out forever with no real ending. Eternally juvenile, ever-fighting.<p>(How many talkbackers are now catatonic thank's to reading DOOM's cheap psychoanalytic analysis of their superheroic fantasies?)
April 21, 2010, 7:05 a.m. CST
No way big stars are going to allow themselves to be portrayed as Ultimate assholes.
April 21, 2010, 7:13 a.m. CST
the guy who kicks an already defeated and fallen helplessly on the ground enemy? The guy who shouted: "Do you think this (letter A on his forehead) stands for France?" that Captain America? <p>i loved Ultimates 1 (2 and especially 3 were not that good) but Ultimate Captain America is NOT what the real,original Captain America is really about.He is a prick and by making him into a prick Millar thought that he made him cool enough for the kids who buy the comics. <p>If the Avengers are going the Ultimates route and turn all the original heroes into their ultimate counterparts,then count me out.
April 21, 2010, 7:27 a.m. CST
by Star Hump
write Captain America. What the fuck does he know about America, except what he saw in movies? The Ultimates is terrible. Naturally, the Marvel movies are based on that line. Thank fuck the first Iron Man was based on Stan Lee's origin and some fairly strong 80s Marvel work. At least we got one decent movie out of this mess.
April 21, 2010, 7:33 a.m. CST
I don't see why the movie version of the Avengers can't draw upon the best of both worlds. Millar wrote The Ultmates as a film, and many of the plot points, set-ups, and action sequences would fit perfectly. Doesn't mean a "grunt" Captain America, wife-beating Giant-Man and hippy Thor have to be the versions of those characters reacting to the events. The big issue as far as I can see is a threat that is big enough to require all the Averngers (let's face it, Thor could deal with most crises on his own), that isn't too campy. The Skrulls, or an invading force manipulated by Loki could do it. Imagine a movie that opens with the Avengers assembling to take down the Hulk and ultimately uncovering a plot to invade the Earth. Final sequence has the big hitters (Thor and Hulk) taking down the massive machines of destruction, the soldiers (Cap, Black Widow, Hawkeye) sorting out the infltration, and Iron Man and War Machine dealing with the alien tech. If we're dealing with a Norse Thunder God on a government-sponsored team, are aliens really too out there as a plot point?
April 21, 2010, 7:34 a.m. CST
April 21, 2010, 7:34 a.m. CST
End of line.
April 21, 2010, 7:37 a.m. CST
Not Cap be a prick.
April 21, 2010, 7:38 a.m. CST
he wants to keep iron man "realistic"
April 21, 2010, 7:39 a.m. CST
Sometimes a superhero should be just that. A super hero.
the Ultimate universe sucks
April 21, 2010, 7:49 a.m. CST
The minute Tony Stark shares screen time with a Thunder God, realism has gone out the window. Then it's all down to tone. Done right, the most outlandish plot point can be handled in a "realistic" manner.
April 21, 2010, 7:51 a.m. CST
.....yeah, me too. Too bad it would be cancelled halfway through it's post after airing in assbackward order. <p> <p> Or it would bomb galactically and spectacularly at the Box Office making less money in its Worldwide gross than it actually cost to produce it. <p> <p> Or it would completely eviscerate and bury a movie franchise formerly directed by Ridley Scot and James Cameron with Sigourney Weaver in her prime as lead - an almost impossible feat. <p> <p> Or it would get buried and scrapped by the Studio while in pre-production like a certain DC Amazon Super-heroine Joss-Whedon tailor-made franchise. <p> <p> Or it would get cancelled again for the umpteenth time with an Eilza Dushku headliner series. <p> <p> <p> <p> But hey, at least the DVD's and collector's box-set would do grrrreat, right?
April 21, 2010, 7:55 a.m. CST
I could see working in a kind of Ghostbustery science vs supernatural kind of way.
April 21, 2010, 7:56 a.m. CST
I don't read comic books, and maybe it's because of the giant boot fetish they have. Seriously, what the hell is going on in that drawing?
April 21, 2010, 7:58 a.m. CST
Perhaps a bit harsh, but it sums it up decently. The Ultimates were were-the-top action heroes... Take yore average Arnold role from the 80's. He'll, take his team from "Predator" and put 'em in Avengers costumes, and you have the Ultimates. You *know* those guys were all manly assholes. And hell... Thats not such a bad way to go. 80's action flicks were awesome... But I want to see an adaptation of the original, not an adaptaion of Millars adaptaion. <br><br>Some people love a Cap who makes surrender quips like "You think this "A" stands for France?" and some love a Cap who shoots down that kind of cheap shot by reminding people that he was in Nazi occupied France and fought alongside a resistance who's country had been overwhelmed and was being held hostage by one of the most fearsome militaries on the planet, and there was no goddamn quit in them. I don't blame people for enjoying and even preferring the Ultimate take, but surely you can see how other people who grew up liking these characters desperately don't want to see them go the Ultimate route.
April 21, 2010, 7:58 a.m. CST
Nick Fury will be featured MORE PROMINENTLY than he has been in all the other Marvel movies when compared to the Avengers, but he certainly won't be the star. I think he just meant compared to my other parts in these movies...this is basically a star vehicle for me...along with a bunch of other people. It makes no sense that Fury would be the main character in the Avengers, but I think I know what he means. I'm more worried about Whedon directing, personally.
April 21, 2010, 8 a.m. CST
I can't even believe Favreau said that. Looks like he really isn't the visionary we thought he was. Cuz this guy will never be able to put Galactus onscreen - and THAT will be the 'ultimate' Marvel movie.
April 21, 2010, 8:04 a.m. CST
I apologize... Hazards of typing on a mobile device that guesses at what you're trying to write.
April 21, 2010, 8:05 a.m. CST
becuase he felt it wouldnt fit into iron man......
April 21, 2010, 8:06 a.m. CST
I want spectaculaction on the big screen.
April 21, 2010, 8:07 a.m. CST
by Nerd Rage
This is the guy who's biggest accomplishments are buffy and firefly? HE gets to take on the biggest comic book movie in history. Fuck off.
April 21, 2010, 8:15 a.m. CST
Well...I might buy the DVD...but only in Blu-Ray, so that your trollish hatred of all-things Whedon was rendered in stunning 1080p high definition...
April 21, 2010, 8:16 a.m. CST
Isn't the whole concept of "nerd rage" sort of stunningly laughable? I mean...the mental image I get of it...just sort of...ludicrous...
April 21, 2010, 8:21 a.m. CST
by THE TRUE PINBACK
The fact that you know little to nothing about THE AVENGERS original incarnation mearly means that someone else should have written this article. Oh...and the original comic book Nick Fury did NOT look like David Hasselhoff...more like a pissed-off Bruce Willis.
April 21, 2010, 8:22 a.m. CST
April 21, 2010, 8:24 a.m. CST
celebrities in the Ultiamte universe.They are going to reality shows,they go to magazine photoshoots,sign autographs,give interviews,etc.They behave more like movie or music stars rathen than super-heroes.meaning they are mostly assholes.
April 21, 2010, 8:26 a.m. CST
Black Fury is an imitation,White Fury is the real deal.you know it.
April 21, 2010, 8:29 a.m. CST
And we do. A lot.
April 21, 2010, 8:30 a.m. CST
Does sound like we are talking about a comic book and not a feature film. <p> Still think this will be beyond Joss (In fairness beyond most). <p>
April 21, 2010, 8:30 a.m. CST
That's pretty fukken cool.
April 21, 2010, 8:34 a.m. CST
Make it so.
April 21, 2010, 8:34 a.m. CST
He said it is his starring vehicle but I don't think that's exactly how he meant it.
April 21, 2010, 8:35 a.m. CST
by Nerd Rage
Joss "milk toast" Whedon writing it? Not so much.
April 21, 2010, 8:36 a.m. CST
Latino Review and IESB carried this story at the beginning of the week and actually included the interview with Sam Jackson. This is becoming Aint it Lazy News.
April 21, 2010, 8:38 a.m. CST
by Rocco Curioso
Sounds like you're a member of that not-so-secret society EBFZ--- Eternal Boners For Zooey. Have at it, hoss. I myself found her quite fetching in "Almost Famous", but have since moved on.
April 21, 2010, 8:39 a.m. CST
by Nerd Rage
HAHAHAHA! Comedy gold!
April 21, 2010, 8:46 a.m. CST
of ANY Marvel Universe. Why is this so hard to comprehend? The movies are their own entity. They have elements of the Ultimates, elements of the classic Lee/Kirby universe, and elements of many other versions. These heroes and stories have gone through so many incarnations, it's almost impossible to track. That's why the movies are taking inspiration where appropriate. I believe they've already said that the movie Cap will NOT be the Ultimates Cap, who's kind of a jingoistic asshole. And in some ways, I agree with Contintentalop, but what he's describing about juvenile wish-fulfillment perfectly describes Millar's work, but does NOT describe Moore, Morrison or Ellis. Millar's stuff, for all its supposed 'real-world' sophistication is just a more cynical and vaguely politically aware juvenile wish fulfillment. Not that the Ultimates is not fun, or cinematic. But comics have grown up, as have its readers, who are aware of the ironies of the superhero genre, and aware of how the presence of the genre in our cultural makeup DOES influence our thinking as adults, so dismissing them as merely children's fare does a broad disservice to the medium as a whole. Having said that, I think Joss Whedon will find a perfect balance between nostalgia and adult emotional resonance, as he did with Astonishing X-Men.
April 21, 2010, 8:55 a.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
April 21, 2010, 8:57 a.m. CST
Spiderman was and continues to be a great read. Xmen started off pretty good then fell apart. Ultimates was pretty good but it felt like Millar was trying too hard to turn everyone into complete assholes. But I do like Cap in the Ultimates.
April 21, 2010, 8:59 a.m. CST
Hey, dont get me wrong, I love comics. Not a super huge fan, but I love a good comic and usually read the best stories. Some of you comic book fans, holy crap, you sound like 10 year old boys arguing on a playground.
April 21, 2010, 9:17 a.m. CST
the original Fury, was a fuckin bad ass. maybe even more so than the new incarnation... check your facts asshole. the avengers movie focusing on Fury, is not such a bad thing i guess- but it will be if they treat the main heros as side players though. this story needs to be about captain america, iron man, thor, Hulk, etc- with Fury coordinating them. DONT FUCK THIS UP WHEDON. I dont have much faith in you bedsides your run on Xmen.
April 21, 2010, 9:19 a.m. CST
Even if it turns out really crappy. I'm hoping it doesn't. But even if it does the Avengers movie marks a milestone in comic book movie history. Super hero movies won't be the same after Avengers comes out. It's kind of like the escalation theory Gordon gave Batman at the end of Batman Begins. Speaking of DC characters... I am truly curious where DC will take there most well known properties after the Avengers flick. I say screw making a bunch of DC origin stories and just go all out and produce an epic 2 or 3 part Kingdom Come type of story.
April 21, 2010, 9:19 a.m. CST
April 21, 2010, 9:28 a.m. CST
And my membership card is double laminated for ease of cleaning ... you know ... 'stains'.
April 21, 2010, 9:33 a.m. CST
Agreed. While Ultimates was a nice what-if, elseworlds, or bizzaro-Avengers tale, I dont see retrofitting the Marvel U to conform to it. If I was a Hollywood investor, I believe the smart money would be on the series with the 500+ issue run. Not the 8 or so issues of an angry unpleasant super-team.
April 21, 2010, 9:33 a.m. CST
by Mr Lucas
How about some love for the character with the silliest name in the Marvel universe?
April 21, 2010, 9:34 a.m. CST
This better not be all Ultimates. I hate the 50 ft Giant-man.
April 21, 2010, 9:35 a.m. CST
That's got to be the worst, most horrible looking Iron Man I've ever seen. I don't read the Ultimates stuff--haven't bought a comic book, outside of the Cerebus phonebooks, in ten years. I haven't actively collected comics since the 80s. It was the twin bitch-slap of Crisis on Infinite Earths and Secret Wars (and the cost of collecting comics) that eventually convinced me to kick the habit. But if I was still collecting, things like making Iron Man look retarded in Ultimates would be exactly the sort of thing that would stop me.<br><br> I'll just wait for the movies. Seriously stupid.
April 21, 2010, 9:36 a.m. CST
Kick-Ass doesn't have anything to do with Marvel. MARV is the name of Mathew Vaughn's production company, watch Layer Cake, that's MARV too.<P> Doesn't have anything to do with Sin City either FYI.
April 21, 2010, 9:38 a.m. CST
Experience reality directly, by going outside and socializing with people, rather than sitting on our butts watching the Netflix on our Roku.<br><br> I don't think we really want realism.
April 21, 2010, 9:42 a.m. CST
by Rocco Curioso
It is indeed heartening to see a strong man manfully admit to what makes his knees wobble; well played, sir. I can empathize, and only hope my membership in RHDWFJAFD (Rock Hard Dudes Waiting For Jessica Alba's Future Divorce) is not in vain.
April 21, 2010, 9:46 a.m. CST
by Royston Lodge
DEPTH PERCEPTION, HELLOOOOOO!!!
April 21, 2010, 9:49 a.m. CST
Cuz he's lookin thru a scope! With one eye!And he doesn't even have to squint the other one!
April 21, 2010, 9:50 a.m. CST
April 21, 2010, 9:53 a.m. CST
Not milk with a bit of toast.
April 21, 2010, 10:03 a.m. CST
....than what they are. But I'd never sell them short either. So sorry "Conti" but this superheroes are inherently juvenile, a grown-up superheroe story is an oxymoron nonsense is just that. Or to put it in Kurt Busiek's words, Its funny how such criticsms of the medium inadvertently point out its greatest strength. If a medium can so adeptly apply metaphor to represent adolescent male angst, could it construct a metaphor for adolescent female angst, or for the anxieties fears and longings of old age? Of course it can. And has. Comics are no less than the modern incarnation (continuation) of the tradition of mythical storytelling. Conveying societal mores and transcendent ideals through larger than life characters and fantastic deeds. The supposed limitations are limitations driven by commercialism. They're not inherent to the medium.
April 21, 2010, 10:06 a.m. CST
He's said he's "Sick of these mother fucking nerds and their mother fucking comics".
April 21, 2010, 10:07 a.m. CST
Think about it...it is Joss Wheadon..."BORED NOW"....
April 21, 2010, 10:07 a.m. CST
If they make Fury the center of the movie, it will SUCK. Movie-goers are being primed to see Iron Man, Thor, Captain America and Hulk assemble for a SUPERHERO-centric ass-kicking adventure, NOT a Sam Jackson starring vehicle. Don't do it guys.
April 21, 2010, 10:07 a.m. CST
Ignorance just pours out of you in this post. The original Nick Fury does not look like Hasselhoff, he was just played by him in the awful tv movie from the 90s. This aside the very idea that the Avengers will be a Nick Fury centric movie is just stupid. It will be an ensemble cast featuring various characters, one of which will be Fury. Lastly, for all you Millar haters out there, go fuck yourselves. Millar has written some of the best comic related stories over the last decade. Saying otherwise just shows how piss poor your taste in entertainment is.
April 21, 2010, 10:23 a.m. CST
A bunch of crap, misunderstandings and misinterpretations of what were characters with more than one dimension. Garbage. Create your own characters, jerks--leave those you're too small to understand alone.
April 21, 2010, 10:26 a.m. CST
His sentence? To be strapped to a chair, Clockwork Orange-style, watching Seasons 1-5 of SUPERNATURAL
April 21, 2010, 10:34 a.m. CST
Into The Blue is right up there with (500) Days. Both are loin rousers of the highest order, no doubt. http://tinyurl.com/y354g9p <P> I agree. Reality sometimes is a little too real. Especially on the 4 train at rush hour. I know the economy is bad - but I'm sure soap and deoderant can be gotten at affordable prices. Fuck's sake, man.
April 21, 2010, 10:36 a.m. CST
I'm not trying to be cruel, but My. God.
April 21, 2010, 10:37 a.m. CST
because you know,we must explain why he is a super genius.Its not that Einstein and Beethoven were gifted by nature,no they were mutants too.
April 21, 2010, 10:39 a.m. CST
David S. Goyer!</p><p>http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0333060/</p><p>It seems he wrote Blade, Dark City and Nick Fury all in teh same year! Before that he just wrote total shit like Kickboxer 2 and crappy Full Moon Entertainment shit like Arcade.</p><p>Interestingly, IMDB says he is developing remakes of The Invisible Man and Scanners!
April 21, 2010, 10:39 a.m. CST
But something tells me they suck a fat one.
April 21, 2010, 10:42 a.m. CST
by maxwell's hammer
...you do realize that Robert Downey, Jr's Tony Stark is a lot closer to the Ultimates version than the original universe one.<BR> <BR> And by the way, most of the characters in their original incarnations are all 'golly gee whiz' boyscouts. Most of the storylines involving alcoholism and spousal abuse might have been effective when they were written, but they come off today reading like after school specials.<BR> <BR> The Ultimates universe took those public-service-personality-traits and weaved them into the characters from issue #1, turning the cast into a bunch of flawed heroes. Yes, Captian America is a total asshole, but the rest of the characters are pretty well written, including the downward-spiraling loser, Hank Pym; the enigmatic hippy Thor, and the military-for-life family man, Clint Barton.<BR> <BR> Volumes 1 and 2 of the Ultimates had some exceptionally great stuff in them.
April 21, 2010, 10:43 a.m. CST
into Dirty Harry in spandex. It's become pretty rote. Thanks, Frank Miller.
April 21, 2010, 10:46 a.m. CST
mark millar = hack herc= no taste
April 21, 2010, 10:48 a.m. CST
put out by Lionsgate. I know the first one closely mirrors the comic because they compare them in the behind the scenes content. I don't know if the same can be said about the second film. I like them both pretty well, but I don't think an alien invasion would work on the big screen. And I'm quite wary about this Loki Jedi mind trick shit too.
April 21, 2010, 10:49 a.m. CST
Those are some small claw-marks...
April 21, 2010, 10:50 a.m. CST
Depth perception throws off your aim.
April 21, 2010, 10:54 a.m. CST
Because the original versions of all the Ultimate characters were sooo complicated and deep. You are such a dip shit. Re-imagining comic characters is something that has been going on since long before the Ultimates. And accusing the writers of "not understanding" the characters, fucking laughable. The Marvel Ultimate line has run its course, but for a brief shining moment we actually had GOOD modernized versions of classic characters like Spider-man and the Avengers, the fact you could not appreciate that is just sad.
April 21, 2010, 10:55 a.m. CST
ultimate universe than the 616 one.And thats why i am worried with the sequel.You see the first movie has in reality the ultimate IM in the 616 universe.RDJ was perfect cast and did a great job.The problem is that since the key for the movie's success is RDJ's IM perfomance,i think that Favreu might overuse him sacrificing the quality of the story,and turning the sequel into a pure Ultimate IM show.The trailers already suggest this,Tony eating donuts,Tony doing dance numbers,Tony acting like more like a prick kid who doesnt want to touch their toys than someone mature and intelligen who understands the threat that his technology poses.In other words the sequel looks to me too Ultimate than original 616.i hope i am wrong.
April 21, 2010, 10:57 a.m. CST
April 21, 2010, 11:01 a.m. CST
Remember in "Mirror Mirror" how there was this alternate universe in which Kirk, Sulu and Chekhov were all murderous swine? <p>Think of The Ultimates as the Marvel Mirror Universe. You still have good brave heroic Steve Rogers fighting evil in the regular universe, but now you also have evil unheroic Steve Rogers in Ultimateland. <p>If you're super-angry about evil Mirror Kirk, however, kindly disregard this post.
April 21, 2010, 11:06 a.m. CST
April 21, 2010, 11:08 a.m. CST
I grew up with the original "Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos" and he was a badass. When he was recruited to be head of SHIELD he was a badass. In one issue he did a demonstration combat match with Captain America and blew Cap's mind. So that is his dominant characteristic: a gruff badass. Sam Jackson works perfectly. David Hasslehoff did not.
April 21, 2010, 11:11 a.m. CST
Fucktards. Loads and load of them who didn't pay attention to my clarifying post.
April 21, 2010, 11:12 a.m. CST
they have Nick fury and his Howling commandos in Cap.america
April 21, 2010, 11:24 a.m. CST
more bad-ass both as character and as actor.
April 21, 2010, 11:52 a.m. CST
Would actually make a decent Fury. Too late. That ship has sailed.
April 21, 2010, 11:58 a.m. CST
There is much to like about the Ultimate (Millar) universe Avengers. However, they don't really come across as "heroic". The Avengers in the Marvel Universe proper, have had their moments, but all-in-all seems a little pedestrian for my comic-book tastes through most of the'80's-00's. So here's hoping that the Marvel Movie-verse can bridge both those "universe's" and make a badass modern superhero flick. A beast all it's own that looks and feels like the Avengers is just fine with me.
April 21, 2010, 11:58 a.m. CST
by Adelai Niska
My personal fave moment is in Ultimates 2 when a nerdy guy who says he came halfway around the world allows a giant robot to crush him. And then Hulk emerges from beneath the robot.
April 21, 2010, 12:02 p.m. CST
JSA, Green Lantern, Blackest Night. Millar's Civil War was shit.
April 21, 2010, 12:12 p.m. CST
the reason that Ultimate Avengers is the way it is, is because Marvel saw the then popularity of The AUTHORITY over at DC. a book both Millar and Hitch were very involved in. He was told by Marvel to reinvent the Avengers in a more modern way that would reflect parts of the Authority. Additionally, when he and Bendis were tasked with creating the Ultimate Universe, they were specifically told to mine 40 years of continuity to do it. So Millar did not steal a couple of Lee & Kirby Ideas to make his book. Ultimates 1 is pretty much the first 4-6 issues of the original Avengers title decompressed and filled with more details to tell the story. He also looked at modern thinking when dealing with characters like Thor. I mean seriously, if someone came up and said they were a Norse God, you would be looking for escape or the men in the white coats. Look at all the people waiting for the second coming. you know if he DID come back, he would be completelydisproved because it would interfere with someone elses agenda. Captain america would be Jingoistic. He would be more of a Mans Man and have a more blunt and to the point view of things. Because that is more in line with how people were back in the 40's. It wasn't Leave it to Beaver land. Things were hard back then. there was no suck concept as political correctness. the whole France comment was more or less playing to the people at the time it was written, because thanks to bush French Fries were renamed Freedom Fries and France was maligned in the public eye. Thor in Ultimates 2 brought about the Idea that there really are things beyond human perception and what we consider reality That is why the characters reacted as they did when all of Asgard showed up to save the day. Super Heroes in the Ultimate Universe are closer to the reality of what we as people view heroes to be. We consider our Military to be heroes one and all. They go to other countries and kill many people to insure our way of life. Not for selfless reasons either. They do it because it is the job they volunteered for and they are fulfilling someone elses goals. why would The Ultimates be any different? They are a Government sponsored team. should they wait around for some costumed baddy to come along so they can go kick is ass and destroy the city at the same time? no. They would be used for Intervention. To keep Military and civillians from being wasted in a situation that they could handle. Hank Pym. In every itteration of the Avengers he has shown a major Inferiority complex. That is why he changes Identities all the time. He beat his wife in the Ultimates out of Jealousy and feelings of Inferiority. He always wanted to be the Big Man. (which is why he became Giant Man) Hawkeye: He's a guy that shoots people with Arrows. where I come from that kind of thing Kills people. It makes sense that he would be a black ops soldier. so looking at this wall of text, I can only come to the conclusion that the most childish thing about Superhero comics are not the characters and their tropes, but the people that read them and refuse to believe that they would have personalities more in line with real people.
April 21, 2010, 12:17 p.m. CST
I wish the site wouldn't have compressed my post so much. That said, I agree that Russel would have made a great Nick Fury. I also always liked the Idea of him playing Captain America back in the day. He would have been awesome.
April 21, 2010, 12:25 p.m. CST
As far as Nick Fury being played by Samuel L Jackson, I don't like it. Not that Sam Jackson can't play a hard as nails Shield agent, but I see him as the WW2 vet. As for Captain America, I like a mix of old and new style. My favorite runs on the character were Mark Waid's Operation Rebirth and Ed Brubaker's recent work on the character. We get a little bit of modern grit with the super hero sensibility. Honestly, I don't think Millar or Morrison or even Moore truly get superhero concepts. I will give Moore credit for the Superman story Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? though. British writers just see superheroes as a joke. However, British comics are great. I see Watchmen as a British comic and I love 2000AD. Again, the difference is being immersed in American comic culture. So, I liked Ultimate Avengers as an "Elseworlds" type tale, but the classic Avengers is still my favorite. Why can't they get real comic writers to do the script. I know Whedon did Astonishing X-Men, but I found that overrated.
April 21, 2010, 12:29 p.m. CST
Just because something is dark and full of violence doesn't make it edgy and smart. The same goes for witty dialogue. I swear if Capt. America says one liners like a Buffy character I will have an Asgardian rage.
April 21, 2010, 12:37 p.m. CST
Fans of either universe will have a problem if they're purists about the films precisely b/c the films adhere to neither entirely. I would think this is obvious, but it needs to be repeated (and has been on this thread).
April 21, 2010, 12:39 p.m. CST
What happened to the wings on Captain America's cowl?
April 21, 2010, 12:44 p.m. CST
...they branded it with the words ULTIMATES and set it in a universe called ULTIMATE MARVEL. This is the REVENGERS or the Squadron Sinister version of the Avengers, this is supposedly a relaunched version of the Avengers for a new audience. <P> Which is the other joke of the Ultimate line. They made it because all the continuity and history of the original Marvel U was intimidating to new fans (agreed) so they make satire and parody versions of established characters (so new fans will never jump over to regular Marvel because the characters are so different) and they make the comic "adult", violent and intentionally shocking (you know, for the young readers who couldn't get into the original Avengers comics). <P> Superheroes was power fulfillment fantasy for kids who knew being a bully was wrong and never would be a bully. THE ULTIMATES is power fantasy for those who want to push their weight around. It is about bullies for wannabe bullies and everything I hate about "pop" culture.
April 21, 2010, 12:47 p.m. CST
to ISN"T. Then maybe that rambling will make sense.
April 21, 2010, 12:55 p.m. CST
by A for Aristocrat
Now if Whedon can make Downey happy then he should be all right.
April 21, 2010, 1:09 p.m. CST
Sam Jackon = Nick Fury in the Ultimates? I mean it was explicit but it was obviously a characiture of sam jackson similar to how Moore made Constantine an homage to Sting. That's what i meant by Millar tainted. Why can't i have my classic Nick Fury?
April 21, 2010, 1:14 p.m. CST
by Commander Breetai
Regarding your "Mirror, mirror" metaphor: The problem with that is that, if the Avengers movie would be written in the "Millar" style, then it'd be as if the Star Trek reboot would have been set in the mirror universe. Millars scribblings are not at all what the normal Marvel universe is about. It comes off as especially dissonant if compared to what Brian Bendis has been doing on Ultimate Spiderman for 130+ issues.
April 21, 2010, 1:14 p.m. CST
by Angry Ghost
-Joss Whedon awesome -Same Jackson awesome -Rob Downey Jr as Iron Man awesome -Thor, Captain America awesome -no stupid bint who can transform into a little wasp and sting people - Awesome All mixed together into a big back of summer action - awesome A whole bunch of fanboys pissed off and screaming - awesome. Awesome awesome awesome. Like a hundred billion Hotdogs.
April 21, 2010, 1:16 p.m. CST
Once again you prove that beneath your metal mask you are the wisest and smartest man alive. <P> And Raptor Jesus and seppukudkurosawa, just because I think something is inherently childish doesn't mean I don't think it can be sophisticated or even subversive. Yes, comic books and the superhero genre can be sophisticated and have subtext, but it is still a child's genre. The medium (comic books) does not have to be but the genre of super-heroes is. <P> Yes you can make a super-hero comic or movie that caters to adults, but that is catering to adults who grew up on comic books, and that will have to acknowledge the childish nature of the genre. Capes, mask, names, powers, the more you want to make it realistic or plausible the less of those things you can have. The very tropes that make something identifiable as part of the super-hero genre also label it as being childish and ridiculous. <P> Once again you prove that beneath your metal mask you are the wisest and smartest man alive. <P> And Raptor Jesus and seppukudkurosawa, just because I think something is inherently childish doesn't mean I don't think it can be sophisticated or even subversive. Yes, comic books and the superhero genre can be sophisticated and have subtext, but it is still a child's genre. The medium (comic books) does not have to be but the genre of super-heroes is. And I personally think their is nothing wrong with being childish or for kids (look at IRON GIANT and THE INCREDIBLES). <P> Yes you can make a super-hero comic or movie that caters to adults, but that is catering to adults who grew up on comic books, who understand the conventions and symbolism, and will have acknowledged the childish nature of the genre. Capes, mask, names, powers, the more you want to make it realistic or plausible the less of those things you can have and will have to lose. The very tropes that make something identifiable as part of the super-hero genre also label it as being childish and ridiculous. <P> If someone made a movie about Strawberry Shortcake and friends having sex, robbing banks and doing blow and meant it for adults it could work but it doesn't mean that they would be able to escape the fact those characters were created for children and that cute cartoon characters are inherently something we associate as being for children. In fact they are probably banking on that. It is the same way with Willingham's Fables. He has nursery rhyme characters involved in very adult situations and making very adult decisions, but you can't say that the idea of a nursery rhyme character isn't inherently childish. He is just playing off of the dichotomy; same thing with guys who make super-heroes and try and make them for adults. They are playing off of the inherently childish nature of the idea, sometimes paradoxically. <P> Personal, I prefer my superhero stuff to be like Shakespeare in that it is written for two audience. Have the super-hero equivalent of “To be of not to be” for the older, more sophisticated fans, and have the bright colors, costumes, action, and wish fulfillment power fantasy for the groundlings (the kids). When you have super-hero stuff made exclusively for adults it begs the question ‘Why bother?” and most adult super-hero stuff doesn't really have a good answer.
April 21, 2010, 1:17 p.m. CST
he was probably too old when the movie was made but i think it's a valid comparison, the sam jackson depiction in Ultimates i always interpreted it as a parody or a joke basically. Not something to be taken seriously. I get that it's 'cool' that they actually cast Sam Jackson in the Nick Fury role but who the fuck made Millar's universe the most prominent marvel source to draw from? It's frustrating, there are only maybe 1-2 things that might be cool if they implement them into the movie but not Sam Jackson as Nick Fury but the damage has already been done.
April 21, 2010, 1:39 p.m. CST
In the end, in the Ultimates and in just about everything of Millar's work, the heroes DO good deeds in the end. They squabble, they bicker, they yell "DO YOU THINK THIS A STANDS FOR FRANCE?!" because it's controversial and it'll get a laugh, Cap kicks Banner in the face when he's down after sweet-talking him because Banner is dangerous and it's also kind of a darkly funny moment. But in the end in Ultimates, to just call the whole thing a bully fantasy is really missing the point because they do band together, they do defeat the insurmountable bad guy, and they do act like heroes. They just bicker a lot along the way. And, wadddya know, just like in the Stan n' Jack days. Besides, it's really hard to read the entire run of Ultimates and not get a smile out of "HULK WANT FREDDIE PRINZE JR!" That shit be funny, yo. Bizarre.
April 21, 2010, 1:44 p.m. CST
They kill helpless foes and ones begging for mercy, brutalizing them in horrible ways. That is heroic? The Hulk rips off each of the Abominations limbs, and Quicksilver ran so fast that Hurricane's skin came off, even when Hurricane was begging for help. And Wasp stepped on a helpless Swarm. <P> THE ULTIMATES are heroic because in the end the win. That is the only thing that separates them from their opponents. Which is probably the point Millar is making - that there is no such thing as heroes, just the guys who win and get to right history when it is over.
April 21, 2010, 1:52 p.m. CST
by Mr Gorilla
YES YES YES!
April 21, 2010, 1:56 p.m. CST
This is the biggest one: WRITE history when it is over. <p> Well obviously I can't chew gum and post comments at the same time so I'm just going to concentrate on finishing my gum.
April 21, 2010, 2 p.m. CST
Forgetting about all this stuff about origin vs ultimates for a minute;( IMO Ultimates blows.) The problem is Sam Jackson himself. Cmon? is there ANY movie this guy wont do for a paycheck? he has no credibility anymore; and secondly..as someone said above, Nick Fury is a badass and can even give Captain America a run for his money. Sam is 62 freaking years old and has no athletic ability. One of the ideas put to screen; Mace and The Emperor should have been one of the best fencing scenes ever, instead it was slow and boring and inadequate. What's he gonna do? talk us to death with more monolougues from his Pulp Fiction days? sighs..guess its a done deal though, no since in bitchin about it
April 21, 2010, 2:20 p.m. CST
Yes, the Liberators all died rather horribly in Ultimates 2, but that's there for A) a gag and to be controversial and B) it's a bit of a Watchmen rip off wherein showing how superpowered beings would be terrible and awesome to behold, yadda yadda yadda. That being said, the entire point of The Ultimates is not "HAH HA! THESE SUPERHEROES SUCK AND THEY'RE HORRIBLE PEOPLE!!!" There is a specific love for Stan n' Jack days in there and it's not as if Steve Rogers goes home and eats kittens and laughs in his evilness at the end. He's still a good guy who stops the bad guys, same with everyone else on the team. Ultimates has a bit of a wink and a nod towards all the ultraviolence but it has very good action beats and payoffs, even character ones. That final showdown between Hawkeye and Black Widow in Ultimates 2? That's the stuff people remember because it comes from a place of, admittedly dark n' gritty, character. But to say that Ultimates is just a big F-U to the entire concept of superheroes misses the point and affection that it clearly demonstrates for the genre in the entire book.
April 21, 2010, 2:33 p.m. CST
by Axl Z
I thought Icon was owned by Marvel.. I might be wrong, been out the comic game for a while now! As for Marv, yeah I'm man enough to say I got that wrong, presummed it was a new offshoot.
April 21, 2010, 3:08 p.m. CST
Whats to fucking get? In the Ultimates the dude is based off of Samuel Jackson....they got Samuel Jackson to play it case closed.
April 21, 2010, 3:20 p.m. CST
The one who had really relevant things to say about the world through superhero/genre fiction. The one who had brave politics. The one who didn't sell out.
April 21, 2010, 3:24 p.m. CST
According to dudewithsecrets...
April 21, 2010, 3:58 p.m. CST
...in the face. After he said he wouldn't hurt him. <P> So fuck that guy.
April 21, 2010, 4:01 p.m. CST
wrong, dude. Kick-Ass is put out by Marvel. It's not in the Marvel universe, but the comic was released by Marvel.
April 21, 2010, 4:05 p.m. CST
there are plenty of interesting nuances that make it more mature in some ways. It really explores the violence hidden under the surface, especially with Pym and Cap. And Cap is NOT evil - he's just overly aggressive and insensitive. I actually really like the Ultimate version of Thor when it's unclear (at first) whether he's actually a god or just batshit insane. The way they brought Loki into the Ultimateverse was actually really clever. So it was not all bad. It's actually really enjoyable. And the Ultimate Iron Man (who feels like a different character in the solo outings than in the Ultimates book) is much more of a Warren Ellis/Philip K. Dick inspired scifi hero - I don't think there's any similarity between that and the movie Iron Man, which again, is it's own thing.
April 21, 2010, 4:06 p.m. CST
guess you said it bettert than I just did.
April 21, 2010, 4:10 p.m. CST
he's been around since WWII and unlike Cap, he wasn't frozen in ice, so he really is old, just slowed down because of the super-soldier formula. I actually hope they do more with Fury in the Cap film, since in the Ultimateverse, he was the first recipient of super-soldier formula, but didn't become the optimum fighter like Cap would and since they can't bring Wolverine into things (damn you, Fox), he can play that role as well. The thing about Fury is that even though he could, he hardly ever engages in a fight. He figures out every contingency to manipulate and overpower his opponent before it ever gets to that. So Jackson as Fury is just fine.
April 21, 2010, 4:22 p.m. CST
His work is cynical, to a level of almost being a parody of itself, one note bullshit. I mean honestly his work is so false on any sort of relatable level it might as well be the comic book version of the movie Crash. Where if someone isn't doing something mind numbingly dispicable, then just force them to do it in a way that does not make any sense on any thematic or character level. And I'm not talking as someone with a thin skin, I'm probably just as cynical as Millar is, the difference is the man uses cynicism in his work as a form of lowest common denominator populist entertainment and not one fucking word of it comes off as genuine or realistic. And if you can't see that then you're one of those assclown fanboys who doesn't get comic book characters, and just wants to see things go boom in an "edgy, EXTREME" way. Millar is no less cheesy or realistic in his portrayal of characters than the old dated Stan Lee comics from the 60's, he's just on the other side of the spectrum. A good example of that would be Kick Ass, the Dave Lizewski character isn't one iota more accurate to teens today than Peter Parker was in 1968, like all Millars characters he's an absurdist over the top joke with zero substance.
April 21, 2010, 4:44 p.m. CST
I mean FUCK we got Obama now, who needs a fucking superhero to look up to?
April 21, 2010, 4:46 p.m. CST
You like Millar and the Ultimates, Fine. I’m not going to rag on you for enjoying his work. But when you change established character to act completely different, than you have to expect to pay the piper. Some people won't appreciate it and some will even hate it. That is what he is going for anyway, because otherwise why do such radically big changes and have characters do such outlandish actions? To get a reaction. Well he got one and for many of us it isn’t a good reaction. <p> Secondly, the idea of Cap being aggressive and insensitive annoys us because now it is no longer Captain America, it is a jingoistic dick just dressed up as Cap. This isn't the Cap who has been shown time and again to be compassionate and fair-minded. And how is being a dick being more mature? If anything it is more immature because you cannot imagine anyone from that time period or who fought as being anything other than a stereotypical gung-ho soldier-type. Well, many soldier’s were far from the stereotype because it was the age of the Citizen Soldier - regular people enlisting because they thought it was the right thing to do. In many regards (if not all) Millar’s Cap isn’t nearly as nuanced as Kirby’s Cap. <P> Finally, why have Nick Fury fight in WWII and have the Super-Soldier or Infinity formula at all? That happened because they needed a rational why a character introduced in 1963 (just 18 years after the end of WWII) could still have fought in the Big One (where he met Captain America AND Reed Richards - no one brings that part up anymore). Well, it is the modern age now and we are reintroducing the characters so there is no need to say Fury served in WWII with Cap. He is just a career military man who was appointed head of SHIELD. No need to add comic book rationalization to a character who doesn’t need it now.
April 21, 2010, 4:52 p.m. CST
by Axl Z
Thought that was the case, there's so much fuzzy logic in who owns what nowday thou, heck Men In Black could count as a Marvel film if you really get into it! Suppose they're all Disney now anyway!!
April 21, 2010, 5:37 p.m. CST
Enemy of the State was still great. Really, it's a pity they didn't get Millar on the Wolverine film since that seems to be the Marvel character he 'gets' the most, as well as the one which fits in best with his aesthetic.<p>Still not too keen on Sam Jackson though. The guy's great but much like Iggy Pop when he's on film, he's never believable as an adapted character. You just sit there throughout the thing going: "That's Samuel L Jackson". Even in the comic, it feels more like Sam Jackson 'playing' Fury than Fury himself.
April 21, 2010, 5:42 p.m. CST
decent thing to come out of the ultimate universe was marvel zombies. and even that got old quick. the ultimate universe is comics for non-comic book readers, meaning total crap. and whedon is not right for either project.
April 21, 2010, 5:43 p.m. CST
Good luck with that Mr Jackson. You should resume your meds now. Personally I couldn't care less about Nick Fury. Maybe, if I try really hard. Like most average comic fans, I didn't even know a Mr. Fury existed till the end of Iron man. Add to that the one dimensionality of Sam Jackson's acting and voila, I DO care less than I did just a minute ago.
April 21, 2010, 5:48 p.m. CST
The character is written as a stereotypical Sam Jackson role. Then they cast Sam Jackson to play stereotypical Sam Jackson, so really there's nothing there for him to play. And, because they already signed him for 9 flicks, we're going to get Sam Jackson shoehorned into a lot of things whether the story called for a Sam Jackson or not.
April 21, 2010, 5:51 p.m. CST
by Anything But Tangerines
The filthy throngs of comic book fanboys will be screaming foul about continuity and who is or isn't supposed to be in what and when, and it will be so deafening that it will drown out the Trekkers, the Star Wars crowd, the Japanese fetishists, and even the Tea baggers in front of your local government offices. There will be geek blood in the water and the sharks will deliberately swim around it. this is the prophecy.
April 21, 2010, 6:05 p.m. CST
..next year.<p>"Finalll Justice"!!
April 21, 2010, 6:13 p.m. CST
it could be a legacy title, as well, like Dread Pirate Roberts. Though, Johnston said he prefers the Bru/Epting version, which has cryogenically frozen Bucky/WS, and Black Widow also has extended lifespan, as well. We'll see how it plays out.
April 21, 2010, 7:18 p.m. CST
Hulk was tearing apart New York, they manged to power him down long enough and Cap tried to lull him into passivity for a moment to get close enough to knock him out. Strategy. Kind of a jerk move and maybe Cap was pissed at Banner at the time, but he didn't do it because he was evil and wanted to inflict pain on puny Bruce, he did it to stop Banner from turning into the Hulk again.
April 21, 2010, 7:20 p.m. CST
Later on in the Ultimate Nightmare storyline, where Mar-vell ask if it is ok to hit a man that is down and Cap says that is how he prefers it, or some shit like that? <P>
April 21, 2010, 7:26 p.m. CST
Banner was lying prone on the ground. I don't care what the Hulk did to New York or to Captain America. <P> Captain America lied and kicked a man when he was down. <P> So: Fuck that guy.
April 21, 2010, 7:30 p.m. CST
But as for being THE star...I don't know. I think he might have to share. He hasn't exactly been headlining a lot of films lately. What was his last movie where he was the only star (not starting shit, just asking)? He can't be thinking first billing for this...can he? On the other hand I could see him eating up the right script from Whedon.
April 21, 2010, 7:34 p.m. CST
That is Ultimate Captain America. <P> So maybe we should call him Captain Amerika?
April 21, 2010, 7:44 p.m. CST
But I liked the Ultimates, and his Work on Ultimate X-men. He didn't exactly redefine himself in those runs though. He's all about role reversal: Cap's a glorified goon, Hank Pym beats his wife, Wolverine works for Magneto and sleeps with Jean Grey, Superman's Russsian, Wolverine becomes the weapon he was meant to be, Tony Stark is an right-wing power monger, Cap is a left wing enemy of the state. His work with established characters is redundant. Some of it's good, but it gets old.
April 21, 2010, 7:50 p.m. CST
Good lord do I hate the facking Ultimate Universe. It truly got the ugly fate it deserved-Ultimatum. <P> And yeah, I know it's still going.
April 21, 2010, 7:52 p.m. CST
all action, no substance
April 21, 2010, 7:58 p.m. CST
I really liked Millar's 'Enemy of the State' run in Wolverine, but it's still all part of the same shtick.
April 21, 2010, 8:01 p.m. CST
You forgot Wolverine becomes a pacifist who refuses to hurt anyone, Batman is really the Joker (or something to that effect in Nemesis) And Doom becomes an apprentice and serving someone. <P>
April 21, 2010, 8:03 p.m. CST
Avengers are so... well... boring.
April 21, 2010, 8:04 p.m. CST
Most of it, anyway. Tho I can usually take or leave Millar's works, I will say that I really dug Marvel 1985, to the extent that I bought a (discounted) Hardcover.
April 21, 2010, 8:15 p.m. CST
I never got the appeal of the Ultimate universe. It just seemed to be a parody of the Marvel universe , adding crass and shocking behavior under the guise of being somehow more relevant, intelligent and realistic. It is just hipsterism.
April 21, 2010, 8:22 p.m. CST
I very much enjoy reading your commentary sir.
April 21, 2010, 8:27 p.m. CST
I've said it many time, and I mean it without hyperbole, the worst crossover in the history of Marvel comics. I've just never seen anyone so cavalierly write characters into the ground like that to serve such a half baked idea of which the creator seemed so allergic to using for any insightful ends, from a story or character standpoint. It's like Millar just went "You know what...fuck all these characters. They're old and boring and fuck them." I honestly think anyone who liked it is either a total laymen to comics or deep down just doesn't like the medium.
April 21, 2010, 8:31 p.m. CST
and I believe he has in the past (Enemy of the State being my favorite of his endeavors), he can be pretty good, but, unfortunately, he seems perfectly content to coast on recycled ideas, variations on a theme, and (especially with his OWN creations) multiple pop culture references, and over-the-top violence. He also harbor's an, "I'm too cool for your little fanboy brain to handle," attitude that really rubs me the wrong way. Unfortunately, now that he has cashed in on Wanted and Kick-Ass I don't see him really applying himself in the near future. Hope I'm wrong, though.
April 21, 2010, 8:43 p.m. CST
and it opened the door to this, 'everyone is an antihero' attitude that practically all the marvel titles have adopted. The X-Men, Cap (although I do like Brubaker's run on the title, over all), Iron Man (and the rest of the Avengers), even Spider-Man made a deal with the devil! Now everything is Dark This and Dark That, and to be frank I'm fucking sick of it! Let heroes be heroes for crying out loud (and yes I realize that in the Dark titles villains have assumed the role of most of these heroes, but that kinda furthers my point). I don't think that everything needs to be 1960s/Kirby era black and white, damn it's gotten out of control.
April 21, 2010, 10:01 p.m. CST
It's not too late...he's probably lying on a bathroom floor somewhere, munching a cheeseburger and just waiting for the phone call...
April 21, 2010, 10:12 p.m. CST
Jackson is a boring and samey actor and as already has been said, The Avengers should surely be an ensemble thing. Jackson has had his day (long ago) and will ruin this film (if he is the main focal point), he should never have been cast as Fury to begin with.
April 21, 2010, 11:12 p.m. CST
Hitting on his daughter.
April 21, 2010, 11:35 p.m. CST
The story itself is fairly gripping, the problem was that Millar, in contrast to I'm pretty sure most of the other writers, wrote it as a pro-fascism homily where Iron Man's group, hunting down heroes and throwing them in that negative zone concentration camp, were portrayed as the heroes.<p>No, the real fuck up came with Secret Invasion, which was just one last mess from start to finish, especially when they hooked in that deux ex machina in the end, quite obviously because the writers had written themselves into a corner and had no idea how to end it. Oh look, they were in a spaceship all the time! I do have to admit to enjoying Dark Reign, though it speaks volumes about how little the writers have left to say about the actual heroes.
April 21, 2010, 11:44 p.m. CST
*** SPOILER ALERT for all you Ultimate Virgins- Don't read or you'll be fucked - You've been warned :) I’ll be happy if they adapt The Ultimates vol.1 and 2, but also do the following: <br> <br> Incorporate the recent Bucky/Winter Soldier storyline into this version. In Ultimates Bucky is old- I say rework that to make Bucky presumed KIA until he reappears as Winter Soldier <br> <br> Cap- While I highly enjoy Cap’s badass soldier attitude in Ultimates universe, I also like Cap’s personality in mainstream Marvel universe. <br> <br> In both universes, Cap is Marvel’s # 1 tactician, he’s also an inspiring leader- very likable, which is evident with his associates Sharon Carter, Falcon, Bucky, Fury, even the pro registration Avengers can’t get to hate him even though they’re sworn to bring him in. <br> <br> Joss Wheadon really should blend a bit of both Caps- Joss, is you or your associates are reading this, please make this happen.
April 22, 2010, 12:01 a.m. CST
but i have notice marvel isn't very good at the crossover events. civl war was midly entertaining, secret invasion was ood for a few issues, and dark reign got boring really fast. DC is way better at the crossover events.
April 22, 2010, 12:38 a.m. CST
Shut up nerds, you are so dumb, LTR - THIS IS NOT ABOUT COMICS BOOKS THIS IS ABOUT MOVIES!?!?! The movie is called The Avengers not The Ultimates!?!?! Shut up about your stupid comics, get it thru your thin skulls - Iron Man is a movie, Hulk is a movie!?!?! You nerds are so stupid, if I saw you I would bash you so hard your balls would come off.<p> Iron Man was a really cool movie. I'm glad they got Dane Cook to play the Iron Man, he was so funny. And he killed Osama Bin Laden so that is cool. When me and my friends become Ceos when we're older and be mega-rich, we're gonna build our own suits and we'll keep them and not give them to you, so there. Hulk was ok, lots of smashing shit which was cool. But I didn't get the ending where Hulk kills the nerd to become real and then at the end the nerd is alive!?!?!<p> Anyway, this is about Samuel L Jackson muthafuckas! He used to be cool but now he's old. I don't know what he'll be like as The Avenger but the eye-patch looks cool. He should do another movie like the one with snakes on a plane (I forget what it was called) but with an eye-patch, he looks cool. I hope The Avengers is good. I don't know who this Josh Whedon guy is, he better be good. At least they didn't hire the gay guy who did Buffy.<p> Anyway stupid nerds, I'll leave you to your arguing about gay things. Don't worry about me, I'll be banging my cheerleader girlfriend. That's right losers, I know what sex feels like, and you never will HAHAHAHA!?!?!
April 22, 2010, 12:45 a.m. CST
And in the Ultimate Wizard of Oz the character of Dorothy is Danny, a 6 year old black boy from Chicago.
April 22, 2010, 12:54 a.m. CST
It's really horrible, unoriginal, embarrassing stuff. Stick with the originals, they are without question, the best of the best. As much as I like Sam Jackson and the fact that he has been in every movie that has been made since 1995, Nick Fury is a white guy. I'm sorry... it's just the way it is. Jackson as Fury is kinda ruining this for me because it doesnt stay true to the franchise or Jim Steranko's awesome initial vision. Ugh. No thanks.
April 22, 2010, 1:11 a.m. CST
Really bad impression of DRUNKHULK
April 22, 2010, 1:27 a.m. CST
That's the Avengers movie I wanna see. 1st movie will be Avengers assembled to take down the Hulk, which was the origin story for both versions of the team. 2nd movie, Avengers vs. Skrulls. 3rd movie, Avengers vs. Loki and everyone else!
April 22, 2010, 2:37 a.m. CST
And it's better than most if not all of Bendis' work in the mainstream marvel universe. and, well waddya know, the new Spider-Man flick by Marc Webb is going to be based off Ultimate Spider-Man. Kooky, ain't it?
April 22, 2010, 2:39 a.m. CST
I started going off about Terminator 2 in the Avatar talkback and it's all about Terminator 2 time paradoxes now, and this one is a lot about Ultimates. Huh. Moment in the sun, I guess.
April 22, 2010, 4:35 a.m. CST
April 22, 2010, 7:59 a.m. CST
April 22, 2010, 11:48 a.m. CST
Because Hollywood can't decide if the government is still the bad guy. In Hollywood, the government represents the White Man and institutionalized racism. But living in the Obama regime, Hollywood now wants the government to represent equal opportunity. Or have I been listening to too much Sean Hannity?
April 22, 2010, 12:23 p.m. CST
Dude, Ultimates with a black Fury was written loooong before Obama was even a national candidate letea lone Prez. Try again.
April 22, 2010, 12:28 p.m. CST
As Millar had mentioned in the ultimate avengers dvd.some of you get over it, hasselhoff is a no talented drunk asswipe.back to Germany with that hack.
April 22, 2010, 2:44 p.m. CST
either black, Hispanic or a woman. This is how we compensate for that not being so in real like. A pretend Utopia is better than no Utopia.
April 22, 2010, 4:20 p.m. CST
Thanks for sharing. NEEERRRDDDS!!!