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Harry looks at Thora Birch and Mena Suvari from AMERICAN BEAUTY
Well you know, I do believe this is an honest to goodness first for me. I don't
believe I have ever SAT down to do an interview with anyone. And I tried my best not to
here. But damn the setting and the situation, it was hard to do this the way I like to...
but... hey... that's the way it goes.
A couple of weeks ago I got a call asking me if I wanted to go to the 'Texas
Premiere' of AMERICAN BEAUTY with Thora Birch and Mena Suvari in attendance.
"Well... Ummm Sure," I said. I was then questioned about my desire to do an 'interview'
with these two young ladies. Figuring that this was my only chance to get up close
enough for either of them to figure out if they instantly love me or not, I decided to take
em up on the offer.
So out I drove to the METROPOLITAN THEATER... The same theater that I
camped for over a week at for STAR WARS EPISODE ONE: THE PHANTOM
MENACE. It's like a homecoming. All the management and staff loathe the sight of me.
I mean... day and night we camped. They had to put up with that crowd, drunk, stoned,
sober even... But here we come again.
Luckily through a separate source I was able to score 10 passes to the event, so I
was able to give them to my whole crew... all of whom hadn't seen the film that I consider
the best film I've seen thus far this year.
As the crew arrived: Hooper and Quint, Johnny Wad, Copernicus, Captain Blood,
Flash Gordon, Annette Kellerman, Robogeek, El Cosmico and Father Geek all lined the
far side of the ropes. The folks at the event lined me and my little Sony Mavica digital
Soul Collector on the south side of the ropes. On one side I had the folks from the local
access tv show, The Reel Deal, and on the other side... two short ladies that didn't say 2
words in my direction so I could never figure it out.
The funniest part of the event was the red carpet. Literally noone was allowed upon
it. Not the people with tickets to the premiere or the folks that were here for the
University Screening. It was reserved for the two ladies coming in the one limo that was
en route. Very strange really. I don't know to whom the invitations were sent for the
premiere, but they must not have been familiar with the movie, because if they weren't...
they sure as heck should have known.
So while we waited I bugged Corey and Martin and took a picture of Annette's ass
from across the red carpet. She gasped in horror when I showed her, but it was too late.
My Mavica had collected the soul of her ass. Ahhhh... wallpaper.
Then they arrived and the masses began chattering real loud and trying to fight for a
glimpse. And I'm not kidding. There had to actually and for real be guards there. I was
kinda surprised because while I'm a bit of a fan of both these young ladies... it was not my
impression that they were widely known at all. But hey... Never underestimate
popularity... it's strange. As I pondered this I decided this was the last bit of reality that I
would see.
I decided that I was going to become the character of Ricky Fitts from AMERICAN
BEAUTY. I wanted to study Thora and Mena whilst they handled and played the red
carpet. Using the digital zoom I would get closer than any person has any right to be.
Watch the minutest of reactions in their faces as they talked to the various press people
and fans. I've never done this before so... have patience with me.... This is when I got the
first shot of Thora
It was a tad dark. Barely any available light. My little camera would have to try it's
darndest to catch the magic. I didn't want to use any flashes. That captures a deer in
headlights. I wanted to get these two and see if what I found was different from the
movie's video footage.
I noticed a strange thing as I looked through the lcd screen... I noticed that I wasn't
really listening to anything that was being said... To tell the truth I can't remember a
sound. It was strange. Like that above shot of Mena... I remember thinking how
incredibly young and beautiful she was, but at the same time I thought that she had to be
very tired of this type of thing.
Then I turned the camera to Thora and with her I saw some one that was just being
very straight forward with people. Answering questions... Not really playing to the
cameras... Not doing an overly exciting laugh quite like
Mena was playing the crowd. At one moment she'd be stone faced, then suddenly
burst out into laughter like above... or suddenly she'd have a very muggy look of
surprise...
Of course at the same time she is incredibly sexy in person. And that is effortless. I
remember thinking that she had to have been a model at some point.. something that was
confirmed later when I interviewed her.
Meanwhile, I really was being drawn more and more to Thora's face. It seemed to
be telling more of a story. Now I don't know if that is risidual prejudice left over from
watching AMERICAN BEAUTY... or if that was just something I was seeing in the
camera. I think... it was in the camera. A couple of times my focus was broke by one of
the publicity people asking me if I wanted to speak to them out here... and I merely
pointed inside... not wanting to talk to anyone right then.
It was so strange looking at these two girls through a camera. Once you see
AMERICAN BEAUTY you will understand what I mean. The film is almost a calling
card for voyeurism. And I understand the appeal. You can sit back... stand in a crowd...
stare and never feel like you are staring. You can see flashes of emotion that otherwise
you would miss. and as you look at your palms you hold a living live image of the person
that you are getting closer and closer to without even moving.
And you can control the brightness and the focus... automatic airbrushing. It's a
separation from reality. And... I think it is that aspect of both this movie and THE BLAIR
WITCH PROJECT that I so dearly latched on to without even thinking of it at the time.
There is something very pervasive about the video image. It seems like it is reality.
Whereas film creates the illusion of reality... but you always know... That is staged. I
automatically drop my instinctual 'this is film' when looking at pixels. I don't know why
that is. It's strange. I think it has to do with the lighting. It isn't so perfectly
balanced.
I had no idea what I would ask them. What do I have to say to two people that
were not alive when STAR WARS opened. People that were not living when
SUPERMAN opened. People who's life times have known only Reagan, Bush and
Clinton as Presidents. That's weird to me. I don't know these girls. I mean. Thora was
Jack Ryan's daughter.
But that was years ago... She has changed quite a bit. In fact she's moved from
being cute to being attractive. It's amazing what a few years does to a vocabulary and use
of adjectives.
Meanwhile, with Mena... Well I've seen her in film for a few years now, but my
primary thoughts of her are as a girl that a lacrosse player and middle aged man wanted to
fuck. I mean. That's weird memories to have as a starting point. What would I
say?
Inside we had to wait for them to introduce the screenings... then they came out...
and began to do their interviews... of which I was just one of. So while I waited, I just
watched them talking to other reporters. While watching them with Chris Garcia... local
newspaper reporter and film reviewer, I saw that they and he were strictly business. It
seemed so serious. And I was set to nod off. Thankfully this charming lady came up to
rescue me. Actually she just came up and said, "Hi, I'm a big fan of yours, I'm Thora's
mom, Carol."
Oh man. Thora's mom. Well, this was something I wasn't expecting. So I just
ducked my head and blushed as she talked about a couple of different things I've written...
strangely things that didn't concern Thora. So, I decided... AHA, this was my chance to
do a pre-interview. After all, Thora was 17 which meant everywhere that she went on
set... and everything she did... MOM was watching. So I began talking to her about her
daughter. And like the other child actor mom I've met, Elijah Wood's mom Debbie, she
was incredibly proud of her daughter. I asked where Thora was on filming with
DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS. And I was told that Thora had completed shooting on
that film. That was wrapped up in Prague this summer and she had a lot of fun on it.
When asked about it, she seemed to think it was a fun role for Thora. She had a great
time with John Malkovich. At first she couldn't remember Tom Baker (our cool sorceror
from THE GOLDEN VOYAGE OF SINBAD) and she mentioned Thora really being keen
on the idea of riding atop a dragon in the film.
Carole told me about how she was a physical trainer that helped pregnant women
get back into shape after birth, when Thora first started out acting... but she had to drop
out of that in order to be the 'stage mom'. We then talked about the stage that Thora is at
in her career. Where suddenly she is going to be looking at playing parts that are older.
And how not many child actors can successfully make the transition.
In all... I found Carole to be a very nice lady that cared quite a bit about Thora and
believes with absolute certainty that Thora will be acting for quite some time to come.
Also... It was a bit strange, but both she and Thora don't think that Thora has been
portrayed as being beautiful in film yet. I disagree. In AMERICAN BEAUTY... I felt
that she really captured the screen wonderfully... especially when Wes Bentley's character
begins paying her some attention for her and not her best friend.
Finally it was my time to sit down with the girls and frankly... this was waaaay
weird. So, as I sat down I decided I should be talking. Quint had given me this tape
recorder of his. I had my little reporter tablet. And I only had a 15 minute length of time
to interview them. Doesn't sound like very much time.
So I did a bit of small talk. "So I take it you two are happy with the movie." What
an incredibly stupid thing to say. I'm suuuuure they would say, Oh no... I hate it. I mean,
this thing had only just won the audience award up at Toronto, as well as a couple of
awards at the Boston Film Festival. Yeah... It was doing just terrible.
In their response they talked about how they had each seen the film multiple times
now and they are still happy with it, so that provoked the thought to ask.... "Do y'all like
watching yourselves on screen, I know many actors hate it"
Mena responded first with a very enthusiastic, "Yes, I really like to watch dailies, and
they really begin to shun me because they don't want me to become 'mannered', but it's not
that really.. I'm just looking at the photography"
"Right, to get an idea of what the film's looking like," I slid in.
"Yeah, when I watch myself it's completely third person, you know," Mena said as
Thora interupted with..
"I hate watching myself. I can stand to watch everyone else but not me."
Then Mena dodged in with, "Well, I find that I have all these different mannerisms and
facial things that I'm not even aware of and when I see it I'm like 'whoa I didn't know I did
that'."
Getting an idea about what Mena gets out of watching herself, which strangely I
found a direct parallel to her character as well as the behavior that I caught outside. Her
reactions seemed a bit 'mannered' She seemed a bit... self concious... So I decided to ask
Thora, "So when you look at yourself of film, what is it you don't like that the camera
sees?"
"It's not anything self concious, it is just that I go like... What am I doing up there?
I'm just a big ugly thing up there. I don't know how to describe it really. When I was
younger I was so much better, I was like.."
Suddenly from out of the bathroom came this primoridial scream. It was as if a
woman was giving birth to a baby calf. Which caused Thora to say,
"Uhhmmm... COOL... I would watch the whole thing (film) and look at myself as a
character. But I think that as my style changed as I got older as an actress I find that I'm
more aware of what I'm doing, so I criticize it more."
This was interesting to me. Thora, who has been acting on film since a very young
age (6 in fact), feels that she just gets critical when she looks at herself, whereas Mena
who is still relatively new (4 years now) to the game is still entranced by every moment
that she is on camera. Constantly studying herself. Very excited.
Hearing this, I wondered if they saw themselves as getting set to change in the type
of roles, because they were both coming out of the ‘Child’ age and entering the ‘Adult’
age. And I wondered if they were looking for adjustment roles. Films to grow themselves
up on film.
Hearing this, I wondered if they saw themselves as getting set to change in the type
of roles, because they were both coming out of the ‘Child’ age and entering the ‘Adult’
age. And I wondered if they were looking for adjustment roles. Films to grow themselves
up on film.
Mena responded first... I must say Mena was alway very agressive in answering first.
She was hungry to answer the questions, “No not really. I still look very young so I’m
still taking and going out for those roles...”
”Well, You do have SUGAR AND SPICE coming up with New Line... Have you
finished shooting that?”
”Oh.. yeah yeah” -- Mena
”So are you playing the insane pregnant cheerleader that goes wacko?” I say in my
most charming of voices. She paused and looked at me like I was some sort of wacko
myself, then...
Mena said, “Have you read the script?” I shook my head no, “Ok... well basically
there are 5 main girls and they each have different style personalities, but I guess you’d say
our main girl is Marley Shelton (or Marla Sokoloff, I couldn’t tell on the tape). I play the
tough one named... Kansas”
”Did you hear about that squad of Texas Cheerleaders or Pep Squad girls that pulled
a series of gas station robberies, but,” as I’m saying this poor Thora is thrown into a
laughing fit, while Mena look concerned, “got nailed when one of the girls got drunk and
started talking about it to a bunch of people who turned them in.”
Mena asked, “Where was this?”
”Right here in Texas somewhere, my father told me about it one morning. The girls
were wearing masks and dressing like guys... using guns... and being really tough.”
”That’s scary... that has a lot in common with the film.”
”Well, that’s just the way it is now days, people in our age just go a bit wacko now
and then.”
Mena - “Well, access to guns is awful easy.”
”Agreed. Let’s see here. Well Thora, I’ve already heard everything about how you
grew up... all the embarrassing details from your Mom, like the first pimple, and” at this
Thora began scouring the lobby of the theater with death in her eyes, “Oh... I’m just
kidding you, “
”That’s good, besides she doesn’t know that story. I kept it a secret.” Thora
responded.
Mena laughed and I chuckled, and to Mena said, “But with you.... I just know that
your mom was a nurse and your father was a psychiatrist, but”
”That’s scary... It’s like you already know me.” and folks... This really spooked her.
It felt obvious that noone that had interviewed her had known what her parents did.
So.
”Well, I just went to Internet Movie Database and clicked on Trivia.” Which
instantly caused Thora to chime in with...
”Oh... The Trivia on me on that thing is Wrong. All wrong.”
To which I responded, “Well, they must’ve figured it out cause it ain’t there any
more. All I could find on you was that really cute Thora.org.” You should have seen her
blush. The closest image I have to it in my library of Thora and Mena images is this one..
that I took when she had a private tickled moment... you know... Some thought triggered
a totally and completely happy face. And here it is....
”Alright, so where is it that you two are wanting to go next... in your careers? What
type of roles, etc?”
Mena responded first, of course, with, “I’m going to take some time off and go on
vacation.”
”Where to?”
”Oh, I’m going to go to Germany and travel around Europe for a while.”
This is when I went into telling them both about THE OGRE with John Malkovich.
Who they both love. But Thora said,
”Well I have to see that one just to see John Malkovich on a horse. I just get such a
great image thinking about that.”
Now without my knowledge the tape recorder of Quint’s started recording a strange
skip noise that has given me a headache trying to decipher. So the rest of this will not be
direct quotes but my memory. Damn technical mumbo jumbo devices.
We talked about performances, working with Sam Mendes, Kevin Spacey, Annette
Bening, Wes Bentley. And the answers were basically the same you’ll read in any ol
interview you can find. In fact... Moriarty did an interview out in L.A. a week or two ago,
so in his piece I’m sure he’ll cover that.
My general impressions of the girls was this. Mena is a surface level babe and a half.
To most I’m sure she is the sweetheart. But there is a bit more going on than meets the
eye. She isn’t the innocent little Choir girl from AMERICAN PIE or the horny
self-involved cheerleader wet dream surrounded by rose petals in AMERICAN DREAM.
Instead I get the distinct impression that she really and truly wants to be a star.... badly.
As for Thora Birch... I get the distinct impression that Thora wants to merely act
for the rest of her life. As a tiny little dwarfling of a girl she was in love with Harrison
Ford... saw INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM about 150 times, and
always dreamed of working with Harrison. And she did... twice in both of Harrison’s Jack
Ryan movies. And the experience was everything she had wanted. He was a wonderful
guy. But she picked up a lot of professionalism over her years of doing this. 11 years
now she’s been acting. She actually has tenure. And she’s only 17. She has taken a little
2 day seminar class on directing, but doesn’t know if that is what she wants to do. Thora
is very much into film making. The process of MAKING films.
Mena on the otherhand is in love with the camera. She likes what she sees... and in
a strange and perfect way, that’s why they each got the roles they got in AMERICAN
BEAUTY. Thora doesn’t believe she’s beautiful, and Mena... well Mena does. While
they are not complete reflections of these characters... some basic root motivations and
beliefs are there for both of them. And while being extremely young.... I found them both
to be very fun to talk to. They are... good kids. Having just seen a movie with both of
them in it. One that I have loved and talked so much about with so many. I really found
that I didn’t want to talk about AMERICAN BEAUTY. I know the story behind that. I
just wanted to talk with these two girls about what makes them tick. Will they continue or
burn out. For now... they are both in this for the long haul. So we’ll have to just wait and
see. Tis very interesting.
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+ Expand All
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...I just wanted to say that I loved the movie. I thought each of your performances was great.
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.....I thought Wes Bentley gave the most amazing performance, especially in that awkward scene where he has to describe why he found the wind-tossed paper bag so captivating. I still wish that Mendes and Ball had allowed us to discover what was so mesmerizing about the image, instead of having Ricky spell it out, but Bentley plays this difficult scene perfectly; underplaying it all with the ease of a veteran performer, which allows him to capture the overly earnest thoughts of a confused teenager with an eerie accuracy. His reading of the monologue, which in other young actors' hands could have proved excrutiating, is perhaps the greatest triumph in this very good, but frustratingly flawed film.
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Harry, first rule of journalism is never trust a tape recorder. I had a similar experience where the damn batteries went dead during an important speech by the university president only a week ago. There was also the time I interviewed someone and then dropped the tape out of the reocrder on the ground...anyways, I always make notes now, but that's not fun to do when you interview cool people like these girls. So, bring two recorders next time! : )***This interview really has me excited to see the movie and compare what the girls are like in TV interviews and how their characters act. To Thora's mom if she ever sees this: You've done a great job raising your daughter! Hope to see her on the screen for many, many years to come.
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So Harry, where's the shot of Annette Kellerman's ass? You're just teasing all your readers by not posting it.
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Great job Harry. (except for the recorder mishap)
I loved how you took the photos of them as if you were the character from the movie. Make sure at the Spiderman premiere , you fully swing down on a rope from the roof of the theatre, & snap all your photos from a webbed up camera set on 'autoshoot'!
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OK, it's cool that you like movies. It's cool you get to go see 'em a lot, and I suppose it's cool that you waited in line. BUT, when you sit here and take endless pictures of young girls, talking about how damn good looking they are, and how your "feelings" toward them have changed over the years, and THEN try associate yourself with a character from a movie just to justify such an odd course of action is WRONG! YOU ARE PATHETIC. American Beauty was an excellent movie, I'll give you that, BUT, I'm not about to start stalking anyone because of it!
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Sep 23, 1999 10:24:47 AM CDT
Thora Birch - Naked Breasts - Potential Child porn in "American
by inkymae
I just recently saw "American Beauty" phenomenal, I might add.
but I have a question for everyone out there that has seen it. Thora Birch at one point exposes her breasts in the movie. According to the IMDB she is only 17 years old and will not be 18 until march 2000. The way the scene is shot it doesn't look like a body double. So since she isn't 18 years of age doesn't that constitute as child porn? (don't get me wrong, she looks great and stuff I'm just wondering if this is something that people have just been overlooking) -
As long as they receive parental consent, someone under the age of 18 can appear nude in a movie. Just off the top of my head, there was Brooke Shields when she was 12 I believe appearing nude several times in Pretty Baby and there was a fully nude scene as well as a fairly graphic sex scene with a 16 year old Nastasia Kinski in To The Devil A Daughter.
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It struck as very odd that both Thora and Mena showed their breasts in AMERICAN BEAUTY while both Spacey and Benning were spared showing anything indiscreet (and both actors had big nude scenes - in fact, it seems to me that Kevin Spacey was in a state of undress for the whole movie.) Until Thora undressed at the window of her bedroom, I felt that all of the nudity was carefully handled in the film and then suddenly in the last half of the film, the under-agers seemed to be losing their shirts. I wonder if this has anything to do with their limited star power (when weighed against Spacey and Benning's huge influence). At any rate, I am very surprised that there hasn't been more said about it - particularly since both actresses are under the age of 18 and since the nudity was probably unnecessary in both scenes. (Both sequences would have been equally effective without teenage nipples.) Was I the only one uncomfortable to see Thora Birch giving the show??
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Thank God for "American Beauty." As the American theater slowly dies as an entertainment venue excepting vanity shows that make people as "who's in it?" rather than "what's it about?," I was so impossibly happy to see that an incredibly beautiful, theatrical, character study like "American Beauty" could be made well and is (so far) being so well-received by the mainstream audience. Whether this will continue after its wide release, who knows? But, I for one put it at the top of my list for this year and hope that this injects a little more theater into the film industry in the future.
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I know this is going slightly off-topic, but has anyone seen the ads for this flick on mtv? The selection of scenes and the voice-over would give you the impression that this is another run of the mill teen flick. The ad seems to betray the movie totally.
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I agree with you, StarBarella, that the nudity in the film had been carefully (and well) handled throughout the first half of the movie. But I thought it was perfect when we are first shown Thora Birch's breasts. Up till this moment in the film, none of the nudity had had anything to do with beauty. Now we are seeing a charming demonstration of intimacy from Thora's character. The director (or writer) had to up the ante at this point. I don't see how anything less would have served this scene. We needed to see something markedly different from any earlier nudity, and we did. I thought this scene was very tasteful and appropriate.
I can't make the same argument for the later bit of nudity with Mena. But I can point out that Americans are pretty much the only people in the world that view exposed female breasts as nudity. From the under-developed African tribes that you see in _National Geographic_ to the modern shores of Europe, no one bats an eye at a breast. It's just we Americans, still clinging to our contradictory notions of decency, that make a fuss over skin. -
I have not seen the ads for _Beauty_ on MTV, but have you seen the trailer for _Fight Club_? I think it makes the movie look shallow and full of gratuitous violence. But believe me, nothing is farther from the truth. I had the good fortune to catch an advance screening of _Fight Club_ last week, and let me tell you: _Fight Club_ is one of the best movies that I have ever seen. I saw _Beauty_ the day after I saw _Fight Club_, and I would be hard pressed to tell you which one of them is the better. It is a shame to see both of these movies targeted for the wrong audience.
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Since when does mere nudity equate to porn? And waist-up nudity at that?
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I didn't feel the nudity was exploitative. If some felt that it was, then this makes this an opinion question, right?
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Wow, so much to say on this topic.
Let me emphasize this. I think American Beauty is the best film of the year. I think Thora Birch is beautiful and I think her nudity was necessary for the scene and done extremely tasteful.
and I personally had no problem with it whatsoever.
I was just wondering about the laws about child pornography. It would seem that if it is ok for her to appear topless when it is done for "art" That any high school teacher that has decided to take some "tasteful" nudes of his students has an arguement that it was done for art. (after all, art is often relative) It was always my understanding that photographing a minor nude whether by her consent or not was still considered child porn ever since the days of ed meese....
I guess I'm just surprised that no one else has even asked about it. what the hell do I know.
Go see the damn movie! It's great! -
To answer your question about the pregnant cheerleader....it's Marley Shelton. By the way...Mena is great chick, I met her when I worked on the Sugar and Spice set. Really pretty and really nice.
I also had to fight the preteen girls away from future "Cyclops" James Marsden. Not many guys bugged the girls on set which surprised me. -
this story weirded me right out, dude.
-
...since I obviously wasn't completely clear making my point last time. Whether she had a body double or not, whether those are her breasts or not- THAT ISN'T PORN! Naked breasts in a non-sexual context just isn't porn. Sorry. If it is then every other issue of National Geographic is pornographic (although they do come in plain brown wrappers...) Goddess, some of you Americans are so prudish.
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If she had a body double as you say she did, why did Access Hollywood run a quote from her Mom saying in part that "It was all done in good taste and was necessary in the movie." They went on to say it wasn't the first time an actress under 18 had appeared nude on film.
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Okay I know that headline has nothing to do with what I am about to say but I thought it was catch and kinda fun in that softcore kinda way!
I thought these two dynamic chicks were the best thing about American Beauty, Annete and her full degrees of bitchery came in third....by all means the guys did a awesome job especially Wes Bentley and Mr. Spacey but I love Mena's lines, her delivery and the brutal candor of her potty-mouth! That is how me and my best friend Kristin talk, very frank and sometimes trashy but by all means I do not shop at Wal-Mart on a daily basis and eat HO HOS and Top Ramen, although the curry chicken flavor rocks, anyways as I was saying the GIRLS OF AMERICAN BEAUTY RULE and I hope to see Mena in more roles and I hope to see Thora and Christina Ricci as sisters in a movie some day....
P.s Was it me or Was Peter Gallagher's EYEBROWS FUCKING THE SCARIEST THING ON THE BIG SCREEN THIS YEAR??? -
This is perfectly legal. As another example, I just read an article about Milla Jovovich in which it states that she appeared bare-breasted at the age of 14 in the movie "Return to the Blue Lagoon".
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Do people really LIKE this bland sitcom tripe? Wait for Xmas and MAGNOLIA--see a pro show ya how it's done.
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Kevin Spacey had me rolling on the floor, especially in the drive-thru scene! Inkymae mentioned photographing nude children, probably unaware of the fact that people like Jock Sturges and Sally Mann do it for a living, and earn a lot of artistic acclaim in the process!
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Didn't she work with Jeremy Irons in Dungeons & Dragons, and not John Malkovich?????
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