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Herc Has Seen All 10 Hours Of The Most Expensive Miniseries Ever: HBO’s THE PACIFIC!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
A new $150-million HBO miniseries from Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks (“Saving Private Ryan,” “Band of Brothers”), “The Pacific” should be required viewing for any young man or woman considering enlisting in the armed forces.
With its depictions of violent death, dismemberment, malaria, dysentery, incontinence, maggoty corpses, jungle rot, enemy traps, night terrors, suicide, (literally) petty officers, post-traumatic stress and general madness, the series is half horror story. It also suggests the atom bomb couldn’t have been invented a minute too soon.
The project follows three U.S. Marines – Eugene Sledge, Robert Leckie and John Basilone – who fought the Japanese during World War II. The ruggedly handsome Basilone became a war-effort poster boy after his tiny squad held off thousands of Japanese at Guadalcanal. Sledge and Leckie both wrote popular books about the war and Sledge’s childhood friend Sid Phillips coincidentally served in the same company as Leckie. I don’t know if Sledge and Leckie ever met in real life, but they share a great conversation about God and fate in episode five. (Leckie ends up leaving the Pacific theater just as Sledge is joining it, so the two were not destined to share a lot of screen time.)
Joe Mazzello, preteen star of Spielberg’s “Jurassic Park,” has as an adult a distinctive face that makes it easy to pick him out when everbody’s in fatigues. The Latino visage of Jon Seda, an American actor of Puerto Rican descent playing the Italian-American Basilone here, helps Basilone stand out among the other American soliders. (Helpful to fans of NBC’s “Homicide”: Seda starred in 46 episodes of that series playing another Italian-American, detective Paul Falsone.)
Leckie is played by curly-haired James Badge Dale. (His curls were shorn when he played the CTU agent who was putting the bone to Kim Bauer -- before daddy Jack Bauer cut off his hand in season three of “24.”) Dale does a memorable job as the star of the first half of the series, but he’s hobbled a bit by the fact that – when a helmet hides his distinctive mop of hair – he looks and sounds too much like the other TV-handsome actors in his squad.
While the series is driven by lesser-known actors, it’s always fun when a familiar face pops up. The famous Lt. Col. “Chesty” Puller is played by William Sadler (“Die Hard 2,” “The Shawshank Redemption,” “Roswell,” “Wonderfalls,” “The Bourne Conspiracy,” “Eagle Eye”). Matt Craven, just one of the many “Boomtown” vets involved in “The Pacific,” plays a good-guy psychiatrist in hour four. “Wonderfalls” headliner Caroline Dhavernas pops in for the first and last episodes as Leckie’s hot but dismissive neighbor. “Fringe” lead Anna Torv arrives at the top of hour five all glammed up as movie star Virginia Grey.
HBO sent over DVDs instead of Blu-rays, but from what I can tell the production values are spectacular. The many shots of the massive warships at sea are CGItastic.
A caveat: While hour one has many fine and distinctive moments, and serves to set up a lot of storylines that will wend through the entire series, it is one of the enterprise’s lesser installments. You’re encouraged to stick with the series at least until hour three, in which we get to know Leckie better as he hooks up with a pretty Australian.
Few series launched this season have earned better reviews:
Entertainment Weekly says:
… has both grand scale and intimacy. It builds in intensity as the series proceeds. …
USA Today says:
… stands with Band of Brothers as the best war movie ever made for TV. … easily the most brutal depiction of battle ever shown on American TV, from the near-constant fear of death to the debilitating discomforts imposed by jungle warfare. It's so intense, one almost wishes it were repetitious so you could at least build up some tension immunity. But instead, every island, every battle, puts its own new twist on terror. …
The New York Times says:
… mesmerizing … For all its realism, “Band of Brothers” was veined with an almost romantic infatuation with just war and noble warriors. “The Pacific” is harder to watch and all the better for it.
The Los Angeles Times says:
… its forerunner's equal in emotive strength, weird poetry and technical bravura; it is also, if memory of the first series serves, an even more brutal and unnerving experience, appropriate to a war fought in tropical extremes against an enemy for whom surrender was not an option. … the series is less a narrative than a kind of tone poem, alternating moments of dark and light, quiet and loud, action and rest. …
The Chicago Tribune says:
… a few slow patches and awkward transitions don't notably detract … The series' most notable achievement is that, in depicting the battles of Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Peleliu and Okinawa, the creators of "The Pacific" have come up with some of the most visceral, intense, affecting war footage ever committed to film. …
The Washington Post says:
… we are made to understand that war is indeed hell, but it is also a lot of hunh? In terms of comprehension, it looks at first to be a death march, 10 unrelenting episodes. … All but the most ardent fans of war movies and the Military Channel will initially feel lost, overwhelmed. But if you give "The Pacific" about three episodes to broaden its story (the miniseries disembarks at 2100 hrs Sunday), it becomes the sweeping, engagingly emotional stuff one would expect. … becomes a very good miniseries that fails to arrive at a coherent, artistic sensibility. There are simply too many people making (and starring in) this movie with too much duty in their hearts, trying to do right by Dad. …
The San Francisco Chronicle says:
… Beyond the fact that HBO's ambitious new miniseries, "The Pacific," is a superb, viscerally moving and harrowing depiction of World War II and a worthy complement to "Band of Brothers" (2001), it offers a resounding yes to a nagging question: Do we really need another movie about World War II? …
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette says:
HBO's latest World War II epic, "The Pacific," arrives in the shadow of the network's much-admired 2001 WWII miniseries "Band of Brothers," and there will be inevitable comparisons. If you're a fan of nuanced, character-driven story-telling, there's no question "The Pacific" is the superior effort. …
The Newark Star Ledger says:
… Most viewers of "The Pacific" won’t have actually witnessed the brutal combat on small islands like Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. But the moving (in every sense of the word) pictures of the miniseries do an incredible job of making the viewer feel like they’re looking down into the real thing. … The advances in digital effects over the last decade, plus a $250 million budget, lets "The Pacific" depict fighting in ways "Band" simply couldn’t. The most memorable "Band" moments often took place in between the action, but there are long stretches of "The Pacific" where there’s nothing but action. The fifth, sixth and seventh episodes essentially turn the battle of Peleliu (a footnote in many WWII histories) into three straight hours of the storming-the-beaches sequence from the start of "Saving Private Ryan." …
The Boston Herald says:
… The first episode, taking place in the days following the attack at Pearl Harbor, is an admittedly rough introduction to what seems like a platoon of characters. Relax. The miniseries eventually settles its focus on three men. … just might be the TV event of the spring, if not the year. Dive in.
The Boston Globe says:
… Amid the expertly managed tension-and-release rhythm of the miniseries, as the Marines go from full-on rampage to rest and cigarette breaks, the characters do tend to get lost in the action. “Band of Brothers’’ had a similar problem, as did HBO’s more recent miniseries about the early days in Iraq, “Generation Kill.’’ The men in these miniseries wear short hair and uniforms, and none are played by known actors, so they all blur together. Which guy just got hit? Which one is frozen with fear? There’s something to be said for asking the viewer to feel this kind of chaos, to put us in the middle of the muddle of battle. War shouldn’t make too much sense. But once that point has been made in these epics, the interchangeability of the characters gets in the way of the storytelling power. It’s harder for us to invest emotionally in each character’s experience, since it’s not clear who’s doing what. We can be awed by the pyrotechnics, by the stunning shot of a severed hand on a battlefield wearing a wedding ring, and yet still feel distant from the personal dramas. …
The Hollywood Reporter says:
… a gem of a production and would be a highlight of any TV season. "Pacific," in its totality, conveys a sense of the combat experience that is as complete and realistic as any work of film could be. From the harrowing nighttime battles with a deadly but invisible enemy to the sheer misery of the punishing jungle climate to the macho posturing of the young American fighters, "Pacific" omits nothing. …
Variety says:
… at times seems weighted down by an obvious desire to trumpet its importance in all caps -- and suffers when compared not only with that 2001 HBO miniseries but with Clint Eastwood's "Flags of Our Fathers"/"Letters From Iwo Jima," to which there are unavoidable parallels. With its gaudy pricetag and glittering auspices, this 10-parter almost demands to be admired in its broad strokes, but yields fitful satisfaction in its particulars. While powerful sequences emerge, they're simply spaced too liberally across this ambitious project's epic, blood-splattered canvas. …
9 p.m. Sunday. HBO.
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Was excellent. If "The Pacific" is anywhere near "BoB" it will be worth it.
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I can almost feel the man-tears coming on already ;O Having read With The Old Breed there's quite a lot of disturbing content in there...
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The first, last and middle words on the Pacific War were said by Clint in the greatest film duology of all time.
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And any series that tells good World War II will always be welcome. Can't wait.
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Seriously, when it was over, I said "God, I hope they make one of the pacific War".
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jon seda is only part puerto rican
hes also half sicilian so playing
an italian amreican isnt a strecth
for him gotta keep up on ur facts better herc -
Awesome awesome awesome series. Well worth subscribing to HBO for the next 10 weeks if you don't already. My only complaint was the versions I received were only in SD, so I actually can't wait to view them all over again when they air in HD. This series was definitely well worth the very long wait.
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That is something that most war series/movies always seem to get wrong (even Band of Brothers skewed older). But judging from the trailers alone, they all look like kids, which is exactly what it was like (and still is). I hate war movies where 40-year-old privates run around.
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These miniseries aren't entirely interesting. They just play out as uninspired combat simulations. I'll take Flags of Our Fathers/Letters from Iwo Jima over this anytime.
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"...but from what I can tell the production values are spectacular."
Ah yes, because DVD quality is like watching the screen smeared with vaseline. -
many over 30 joined up too
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but you gotta wait.
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Herc, what the hell are you talking about? Why should anyone deciding to enlist in the military watch this considering WW II and the Pacific specifically has nothing to do with modern war? Generation Kill, the Hurt Locker, and even Black Hawk Down are better depictions of modern war.
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was around 25, and according to the song, in Vietnam was 19. War is hell, no matter if it was 2000 years ago getting sliced open with bronze swords or today with IED's made up of nails and old car parts. What defines men and women who choose to serve, who already know the dangers and consequences of making a conscious choice to serve in the military today, is that the bravest thing they did was signing up.
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Having been in the military for the last decade, I can say that watching Band of Brothers really put asses in the military. People watched that mini-series and wanted to feel a sense of camaraderie that those men felt. I bet this will do the same. Band of Brothers is heart-wrenching. I can't watch those pre-interviews with those old-timers tearing up without losing my shit.
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Is that "required viewing" comment meant to express an opinion that young people are too stupid to recognize the horror of war and therefore not smart enough to "not" enlist?I find that possibility slightly insulting. Though I am a civilian.
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they should be forced to watch those too, especailly Generation Kill.
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I believe young people are smart enough to recognize the horror of war.
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Great review and thanks. Congrats on seeing this. Looking forward to this and very excited about it.
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These series are great accompanied by The World At War. But surely someone should make a series like this, based on WW1 in europe next?
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...nuff said.
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why couldn't have it been Pacific instead? :(
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episode 9, why we fight, might be the single most harrowing piece of TV I've ever seen. Only down side is both these series are written by Graham Yost, who at least according to Joss Whedon, is a bit of prick
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How long until it leaks onto torrent sites I wonder.
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I'm sick of it, stop making movies and series about it, we need something new.
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Are you guys for real?
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Whose ready for a Hanks/Spielberg mini series on The Holocuast!?
FINISH THIS OFF WITH THE MOST HEART WRENCHING MINI SERIES.
Would I be depressed watching...sure...but I want all 3 MAJOR stories of WWII put to screen by these guys. -
The citizens of Hiroshima and Nagazaki was just about ready to invade America. I mean dropping one at an unpopulated area as a show of force wouldnt have been enough. Only the charred corpses of civilians would convince the evil Japs to surrender. Keep repeating it and it might become true.
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Eastern Front was some pretty evil shit as well. Although it might be hard for the American audience to connect since there is no American presence...unless you count us supplying the Russians with munitions.
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Mar 14, 2010 7:24:33 PM CDT
Americans were about to become the absoulute heroes
by david cloverfield
of the hell on earth called WW2. Then, in the last minute they've dropped the ball (bomb). I'll still watch the Pacific, but it seems it'll be a ten part raitonale of slaughtering two cities worth of civilians in a show of force.
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...we wouldn't have to listen to pasty Canadian internet nerds complaining 60 years later. That's gotta be worth millions more deaths on both sides, right?
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I'm sure everyone at AICN is butthurt that Matt Damon's "America, F*ck You!" movie GREEN ZONE has bombed, but it's getting really annoying to see the constant drumbeat of, "If you're stupid enough to want to serve your country, you need to watch this and Generation Kill so you know how stupid you are." The reason morons can call themselves Hercules and pontificate on the Internet about how much they hate "My Name Is Earl" is because brave men and women stand to keep them safe in their parents basements. The sheer contempt and ingratitude toward our soldiers is breathtaking.
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The Pacific is a love letter to the vets. And my parents and I have lived in different states for more than a quarter century, so I'm safe in my own basement now.
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If you stick with this series long enough you get to see former "Law & Order" ADA Annie Parisse cavort nakedly!
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Im geniunly interested. First one, then another one with a plan to nuke practically every city in Japan if need be. What the fuck?
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It's starting!
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IF you mean me as a pasty Canadian internet nerd, I'm a Hungarian. My family got purged once, during the Holocaust, then once again, during the Soviet occupation (after we rebelled in 56, thanks to the promise of American assistance, that never arrived). I know the kind of shit that happens in a war on your own soil, and I know about civilian casualities, and what they mean. It's beaten into us in our childhood. That's why the end of the war makes me sad. The US behave in an incredible way - you guys gave hope to everybody, over here. The world is not evil. Men are capable of great things, sacrificing a lot for the good of the world. You were shaping a buetiful future for the 2öth century. Then, as soon as the US had the capability to destroy thousands of civilian lives with one order, they gave into temptation immediatley. It's what any other nation would've done, in that situation. But that's just it: instead of being a paragon and setting an example, dropping those bombs meant becoming part of the problem, like any other country. That's a very sad, missed opportunity, for everybody. After that, it all went downhill.
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Mar 14, 2010 8:20:48 PM CDT
I think there are a lot of countries that wouldn't have used the
by tradeskilz
in the same situation or atleast in the same way. Im guessing most would have opted for dropping them on some sparsly populated region in Japan. The effect wouldnt have been as immediate but Japan would surely have surrenderd just the same.
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..but are TV (and cinema, for that matter) audiences so shallow that if normal ugly looking people starred in these shows no one would watch them? I assume overweight and ugly actresses have all but given up the dream of acting and leave that to failed models these days. It's a pretty sad state of affairs for a couple of the dumbest forms of entertainment. Maybe I'm incredibly strange and I don't need to watch model-looking people on screen to enjoy the mindless entertainment presented to us on the small or big screen!
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If the U.S. hadnt dropped the two nukes people would still be pissed with the result. The firebombing campaign of Japanese cities was probably just as bad. They would have kept scorching the whole country with the B29's. Then follow that up with a bloody invasion if Japan still hadnt cried "uncle". The choice was brutal either way.
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Who else from "Boomtown" aside from Matt Craven is in this Herc?! I watched "Band of Brothers" for the first time when I got it on Blu-ray this past Christmas (I know, better late than never.) That led me to finally watching "Boomtown- Season One" by buying the DVD. I LOVED that show. Well written, well acted etc... I'm psyched to hear there are people from that show in "The Pacific". Who?
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Color me hooked for the rest of the series. That's Matt Damon's partner from The Departed. What are the chances they're both in war movies this week. Funny how the universe works.
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It was more humane than any reasonable alternative.
Done. -
I'm just saying.
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Would have racked up hundreds of thousands of Allied casualties, as the Japanese were preparing civilians(including kids and seniors) for hand-to-hand combat. We faced an enemy whose jingoism was wrapped in religiosity, and was unafraid of death. By dropping the atom bomb, we showed them an undeniable truth: futility. By showing the Japanese our ability to completely wipe them out without sustaining even one Allied casualty, they were left with but one option - surrender. Dropping those bombs saved countless lives on our side, and that's an undeniable fact. Could we have achieved this by dropping the bomb on an unpopulated area as a show of force, as one talkbacker suggested? Doubtful, since the Japanese initially didn't want to believe that the first bomb had done the damage it did, as some claimed that we had simply cut off Hiroshima's ability to communicate with the rest of Japan. What is also undeniable is that we changed the course of Japanese history for the better, turning a system bent on conquest and genocide (Nanking,) into one of the world's best citizens (whaling aside.)
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Is there any chance HBO will make that money back? Anyone know?
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Did anyone else have trouble viewing tonight's episode in HD? HBO in Chicago wasn't working. Comcast cable blows
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BoB sold an amazing amount of DVD's and Blu-Rays. I think new subscriptions to HBO just to see this mini-series will be high too.
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any hesitation on the part of Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan to drop an A-bomb on London, New York, or Los Angeles if the Axis would have developed the bomb first? The bomb was a game changer, and game ender. Period. If it had gone the other way, this talkback would not exist, or at the very least, be more Nazi and less nacho.
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Not Fuller. The man is a fucking legend in Marine Corps lore.
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At least as a prisoner of war in Germany an American G.I. had a chance of living. The Japanese would more than likely slice off your head for fun or starve you to death if your lucky.
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With that kind of justification anything goes pretty much. America didnt even try to force Japan to surrender with a less catastophic show of force. They droped one nuke and before the severity of the situation had fully dawned on the Japanese, they dropped another. They were apparently ready to nuke the entire mainland Japan killing virtually every civilian in the country.
Seeking an alternative solution would have been a moral imperative. There is no doubt in my mind that Japan would have surrendered if america would have started droppng nukes pretty much anywhere in the country even if those bombs didnt produce a single casualty. The message would have been the same.
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That was another reason they wanted to end it asap. In a way, that may have been a good thing for Japan in the long run. Can you imagine some bullshit North Japan (Communist)/South Japan (Capitalist)? Oiy.
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All those "show of force" nukes you would have liked to see dropped would have just emboldened the Japanese. They would have painted us as gutless cowards and we would have had to drop one on a city anyway. Meanwhile, the radioactive fallout from all of your "show" nukes would have proven even more devastating, depending on the prevailing winds. I totally understand your revulsion at what the US did, but it had to be done.
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and episode 1 of the Pacific was interesting. Im onboard.
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The US only had two bombs. There were no plans to keeping nuking them because we didn't have any more. Also, after the first was dropped we asked for an unconditional surrender and the Japenese refused. Maybe if your countrymen were at danger from the Japanese Empire you would understand. I know to you, the loss of a few hundred thousand US Marines is not much but in my opinion it was well worth it.
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You're right on the money. But why learn history (which isn't really taught anymore,) when you can be steeped in "Hate the US at all costs" ideology?
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Was worse by far than the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima? Why fixate your outrage on the latter? Because nuclear weapons are magically more evil than other weapons?
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"Jutify the use of the atomic bombs then..."REALLY???Don't ANY of you morons actually know or understand your own history???The projected casualties of American Marines and soldiers in an invasion of Japan was ONE MILLION DEAD. Add in another 250,000 for British, Chinese, and Russian.Do you fucking retard hippies want to know what the Japanese projected losses were? FIVE MILLION.FIVE FUCKING MILLION PEOPLE.So yeah, Truman dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which WERE military targets you mother fucking revisionist history socialist education mother fuckers, SAVED over 6 million lives.SIX MILLION.God... the stupidity and outright hatred and vile disprespect some of you lazy, selfish mother fuckers show the greatest generation to ever live on this planet sickens me.I hope all of you die painful deaths as the 35 year old virgins you are.
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And for any of you morons to claim that we didn't give Japan the ability to surrender...Again... DO YOU PEOPLE EVEN KNOW HOW STUPID YOU SOUND BECAUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW SHIT!!!We TOLD them about the atomic bomb.They decided to keep fighting.So we dropped the Hiroshima bomb.They didn't surrender.So we dropped the Nagasaki bomb.How fucking stupid are you people??? Learning your revisionist history like the lefties and members of Obamanation want you to do. How fucking sad for our country that you people are allowed to live in it and spout off such lies and feel such righteousness in your belief in things that aren't even close to being true.Dumb, stupid, IGNORANT mother fuckers.
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Stop getting so worked up - it's only a mini-series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I just hate some of these fuckers who have no fucking clue what they're talking about, who didn't pay attention to half of the revisionist anti-American history they learn in high school to have an intelligent conversation about American history, and who then take the ignorant shit they do remember and use it to form a basis of hatred and ignorance about their own country and the brave men who fought and died to protect their rights to be lazy, selfish, hateful, ignorant mother fuckers.KNOW YOUR FUCKING HISTORY BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR STUPID FUCKING IGNORANT MOUTHS!!!
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To all you revisionists, just stop right now. OK? You have no facts to support your bullshit.
Without dropping two nuclear bombs on Japan, and forcing the surrender, the Allies were planning to have to use about 5 million soldiers to invade the Japanese home islands, let alone free Korea and China. It was estimated that it would have taken over a year at least and a least 1 MILLION allied soldiers would have been killed or wounded and well over several million japanese civilians and military would have died. When it was done, there were MILLIONS of lives that were going to end because of it. And the post-war Japan was going to be 100X more difficult and expensive to help revive which we were obviously going to do and did because of the ensuing devastation to its infrastructure.
These bombings forced Japan's hand. And we did it ONCE then said "surrender" they did NOT respond. We dropped a second and even after that they did NOT respond. Learn your history.
We then sent a bombing run over Tokyo and even after THAT, they accepted surrender CONDITIONALLY, THAT THE EMPEROR REMAINS IN POWER. Can you imagine that? even after all that, a CONDITIONAL surrender ! Truman's government accepted.
Yes many people died, but a tiny % of the total that would have for sure. What's a bigger WMD-- a small 1945 nuke or the bombing of Dresden? OR the rape of Nanking or the tens of MILLIONS Hitler's army killed. Nukes are scary because they are "easy"?? to use-- one bomber, one missile, one button, one psychopath with the will? But the two times it was used was only when the alternative was Millions of deaths and years more of war. That is 100% unrelated to the fears the world has today of smaller nations getting the bomb.
Those of you who are SO convinced it was wrong probably could not be convinced of anything logical or factual. NOTHING. you are hateful people who hate America and what it stands for, are totally ignorant to the facts of the war, and hate hard decisions and have totally unrealistic views of the world and what the world was like at that time, and probably even now.
Crawl back to your delusions of ignorance and please do not tarnish the memories of those who gave to much, often everything, so that you are even able to write the sickening bullshit you write here today.
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Fuck all of these socialist Obamanationites and their love of "global citizenship" and "world order" and their anti-American, blame-America shit.These fuckers need to have Jay and Silent Bob beat the fuck out of them. Daily.
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... Michael Moore is a fat fucking sack of lying shit who uses slick editing techniques which invalidate his documentaries, turning them into hateful works of fiction.He's going to burn in hell for what he did to Charlton Heston. A man who marched with Martin Luther King and was at the forefront of Civil Rights in Hollywood while the more liberal and "correct" thinking in that fucking town couldn't be bothered.
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I had NO problems watching it in HD, through Comcast digital cable. But I get the Schaumburg Comcast service, so that may be the difference.
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I saw all the ads and there was no way I was merely grabbing the crappy looking torrents of the series. Comcast gave me a deal where I get all HBO channels, including the HD feed for 10 bucks a month, for 6 months. No 'cancelling fees' etc... When the series ends, I will cancel. lol.
Already my two best friends Sara and Bob, and my father, have made plans that every Monday night (Sundays don't work for us) we will get together and watch the new episode on my big screen. -
There would've been no need for Nagasaki. Yes, she's THAT devastating.
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Socialist? Keep buying your own marketing. That's what you tell yourself to avoid facing the fact that Obama helped save capitalism. And what thanks does he get? A bunch of Wall Street Morons who would rather start tea parties and complain about their taxes than face the facts that they fucked up.
Yes, that's right. The same Wall Street folks who forgot the fundamentals of supply and demand. Remember "Rick Santelli and the Rant of the Year? CNBC hack, with his bond trader buddies cheering him on about their genius plan to let more people default on their mortgages, so even more assets could be feared toxic.
I don't blame America for the problems that happened out there. But do you think America doesn't do anything wrong? Americans and America make mistakes. Now we can bullshit ourselves about this, or we can have the pride in this country to believe that we can and should do better.
I believe the atomic bombs were the right decision, but they were also a horrible decision. In the course of history, it may be a decision we come to regret, because of what Nuclear Weapons have come to mean.
I've had to confront folks like you for quite some time in political arguments on the Iraq War, and the fucking out of control partisanship on the subject always pisses me off. You're so damn worried about liberalism that folks like you let the Bush Adminstration run the war like a bunch of remedial class second-graders. It's easy to flex your muscles like a hawk and tell people they're pussies for not supporting the policies you like. Trouble is, there's a difference between talking tough, and actually fighting a war effectively. -
That "expert 40" guy was giving me a fucking headache.
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Two bombs dropped on Japan ended the war and saved countless Marines their lives. The Japanese brought the war on themselves and paid the price. Anyone who thinks otherwise, talk to anyone that was alive during that period and ask them if it was worth it. Semper Fi.
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... suck a cock mother fucker.Don't lump me in with the people who let Bush do what he did.I'm talking about the ignorant, revisionist history being taught in schools across this country for the last 20-years by the politically correct socialst fuckers LIKE Obamanation. But here you go having to bring other shit into it, when I was talking about the revisionist history mother fuckers and the fact that they don't know dick about what they're saying. Stay on topic mother fucker.And BTW... Obamanation didn't save capitalism. He's got it in a sleeper hold, ready to pile drive everything this country stands for into oblivion the first chance he has. He's no better than Bush was. They're BOTH bad for America. Two sides of the same coin; just a different kind of arrogant asshole is all.
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I don't know what's more scary the fact that you nuked two cities or the fact that you are unequivocally supporting the act and even praising it. I had no idea nuclear weapons was such a tool for democracy. Hell you apparently saved the Japanese people and their future by nuking them. They should be THANKING you.
I also had no idea that nuclear weapons were more humane than conventional weapons. Damn my socialist education. All this time i thought that with normal bombs you get some kind of warning and stand a reasonable chance of survival in a basement or shelter and don't have to suffer years of nuclear fallout or face instant incineration.
You guys go totally ape shit when this gets brought up, falling back on the "you uneducated fuck" "ignorant communist hick" "learn high school" "read books" blablabla.
You piece of shit. Don't even open your fucking mouth about an education when you so obviously lack one and have never been taught the value of critical thinking. You fucking robots. You are a living caricature of a brainwashed american living in denial.
Why don't you deploy some fucking bio weapons in a-stan? I'm sure that would save a lot of NATO lives. Just sprinkle the whole Helmand province with the stuff and your troubles there will be over shortly. You are actually SAVING the women and children there (even though a couple of hundred thousands will die) The survivors will thank you later.
I'm impressed by the way you guy utilized Wikipedia though in lieu of actually knowing what the fuck you are talking about. -
... I spent 13 weeks of hell on Parris Island followed up by two months in SOI at Camp LeJeune.I've been in the cold, the rain, the jungle, and the desert.What the fuck do YOU know?
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because I knew KNEW all you political numb nut on both ends of the spectrum couldn't keep your hands off your tiny cocks. AICN RIP you cum catchers have managed to ruin it with all your nonsense, cherry picking and talking points.
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... AGAIN, you ignorant fuck...dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saves ONE MILLION American lives.It also saved AT LEAST FIVE MILLION Japanese lives, the vast majority of which are the SAME fucking civilians you pretend you care about.So what is it you stupid mother fucker? The hundred-thousand-plus who died in the bombings? Or the MILLIONS who would have died in the largest invasion in recorded history?Or are you so fucking stupid that you can't even do BASIC ARITHMETIC???
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If America is the cesspool you claim it to be then why does the world beg us to help after every quake/tsunami/genocide/famine/etc..
Why? Because we, the American people, actaully give a shit about you even though you hate our guts. That is what makes us different. AS I much as you revolt me and your hate speech makes me want to vomit, here in America you have the right to say it. When was the last time your country (Hungary) gave assistance to another country in need? Especially one that hates you. We helped save your collective asses twice in the last century and then helped topple the Soviet Block. What thanks to we get? This venom you spit at us about how we are the worst country in the world for dropping two bombs on a country and a people that slaughter untold numbers of innocents all over Asia. What they did to Nanking merited the boms alone. Call me names if you will but remember who gave you that freedom to do so. It sure wasn't Hitler or Tojo... -
in the second fucking paragraph. The fallout was inevitable.
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who ever said a nuclear weapon is a tool of democracy? I sure didn't. but 6 decades ago it was a tool to end Japanese Totalitarian aggression and to save millions of lives. that somehow you can equate the events of WW2 with anything going on in the middle or near east is astonishing. The only thing they have in common is bullets and soldiers.
And we had the ability to use a third bomb and we did NOT. We did a bombing run over tokyo next. Actually any educated Japanese knows that by ending the war in days at a cost of < 200,000 lives makes much more sense than the 3-4 Million lives that would have been lost, not to mention billions in infrastructre lost with a full-on invasion of Japan. Tell me Admiral Tradeskilz, how exactly would you have ended the war. OH and by the way, before you point fingers at America, point it first at Japan and Germany who Violated every possible act or law protecting civilians during war imaginable, not to mention deliberately murdering and mutilating POWs by the ship load.
America, Britain, France, Russia, Canada, Australia, and others SAVED the world from literal destruction and the abyss. Wake the fuck up or put out some facts so we can laugh and tear them to pieces.
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Tell me, my friend, to whom do you owe your freedom today, to Communist Russia?? to bulgaria, Norway, Italy, Vietnam, Algeria...... NO my friend, the reason you can even write the putrid waste of RAM you produce is because of America. You must really be a food to the nth power.
The bumper stickers I saw recently said it best:
" WHICH PART OF EUROPE ARE YOU FROM? THE PART WE SAVED, OR THE PART WHOSE ASS WE KICKED ?" -
dude...you really have no idea what you are talking about. The war with Japan cannot be compared to any war since then...the Japanese people followed their emperor because he was literally a living god...they believed in his divinity and would do anything for him. You had civilians jumping to their deaths on Iwo Jima because they believed the stories their leaders told them about American soldiers raping Japanese women and murdering their children...the Japanese defended tiny spits of land to the last man, little islands that had zero cultural significance to them. Instead of being captured they would hold grendades to their chests and blow themselves up or fall on their swords. Now, imagine an allied invasion of the main Japanese islands?? How hard do you think they would fight to defend it?? The bloody battles that happened all over the Pacific would be nothing compared to the carnage that would have ensued had we invaded mainland Japan. The allies knew that the only way to force a surrender was to shock the Japanese into doing so...it was honorable for them to all die while killing as many Americans as they could...but what the atomic bombs showed was that the only people who would be dying was them...
and before you go around spouting your anti-american nonsense how about you read up on what the Japanese did to POWs during WW2...there is a reason they refused to sign on to the Geneva Convention...they butchered and intentionally mutilated and starved POWs to death...the Bataan Death March...look it up
like it or not the two atomic bombs saved millions of lives...that might seem like a contradiction to your simplistic world view but maybe it's time to wake up and see things for what they are -
Right next to my McCain/Palin '08 sticker.
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With that kind of logic its possible to justify any barbaric act. I could probably make a compelling case for eliminating every person carrying the genes for obesity if i was so inclined. Proving that the ends justify the means even though its obviously insane.
Also im from Sweden btw and we spend enormous amounts on foreign aid and one Swedish town of 60,000 people, took in twice as many Iraqi refugees as the entire United States combines. So yeah we are doing our part. But suppose you'd rather we spend more on bombs and weapons. -
killing the obese? dude where is your mind?
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there is a really good chance Japan might not even be a country today...the amount of mass suicides that would have taken place would have made Jonestown look like a family picnic
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and when did you finally decide to come and "rescue" the world? I guess he 50 million dead europeans did absolutely nothing right? Nah you "kicked everybodys ass"
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Curious, do you know the history of WW2-- of what Japan and Germany did do their own countries and the countries they invaded. WW2 killed 70 Million or so people you moron and it was started by basically two principle nations, although there were other "lesser" AXIS powers-- let us not forget that Italy, Hungary, Bulgaria, Croatia, Slvakia, Finland, Thailand and yes for a time even Iraq was on the side of Hitler.
did you know that over 50% of all deaths in WW2 were CIVILIANS WHO LIVED IN COUNTRIES OF THE ALLIES??? DID YOU KNOW THAT 4% OF CIVILIAN DEATHS WERE IN AXIS COUNTRIES-- HARDLY CLOSE ARE THEY.
There has never been any universally scholarly work showing the bomb did NOT save lives overall in this war. On the other hand, the preponderance of the data was that it did.
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... their brains are so fucked up anyways, it's no use.Not one fucking ounce of logic can penetrate the brain of a neo communist socialist.Yes, you dumb mother fucker. You talk about atrocities, yet you refuse to recognize the genocidal acts that the Empire of Japan committed against the Chinese and Koreans. You refuse to acknowledge inhumane things they did to POWs.To you, America, the country to which you owe your very freedom no less than THREE FUCKING TIMES in the last 100 years, is evil, no matter what we do.You have no concept of history. You obviously have no concept of right and wrong, as you would trade over 5 million Japanese civilian lives for 100,000-plus.You just want to hate America.Well, to borrow from a couple of flapping-headed Canadians: FUCK YOU, BUDDY!
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this joker obviously knows nothing about WW2...some teacher or a friend of his planted this seed about America being evil for the atomic bombs and he's running with it without any care for facts...kind of like a toddler running with scissors...it's not going to go well
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If by spending money on weapons you mean protecting ourselves and others, A resounding yes.
Sweden? Wow, you guys really stepped it up in '42. When the rest of the world resisted Hitler, you guys played it safe. Way to go. And since you guys have been on the sidelines since 1814, I don't think you have the right to criticize. I know a number of Swedes and they are wonderful people. I will try not to change my attitude towards them becuase of your hatred toward everything American. Funny thing... if Russia or someone else came knocking on your door one day guess who would come to your rescue. Yep, us warmongering Americans. You see, we have a soft spot for people like you. You know, those that can't fend for themselves. Have we made mistakes. You bet! But, on the whole we strive to do the right thing. That is better than staying nuetral all the time. At least we take a stand. -
I did know that. So following your logic it would be justifiable to nuke Afghanistan Pakistan Iran or whatever? If not, why was it strategically and morally defensible to do it to Japan and not these other countries? What has changed?
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some asshole actually thought it was smart to say that if we had lost the war that American leaders would have been charged with warcrimes. Like that was some profound statement...he seemed to forget that if we had lost it would have been Hitler, Himler, Tojo, Spear, charging us with warcrimes...like that reality would have been a great outcome
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first off what is your point about obesity and who would ever want to kill people because of weight. WTF are you talking about. and by the way, I'm a physician (MD) so don't' go and try to convince me that weight is a gene issue-- it is ALMOST 100% PREVENTABLE IN EVERYONE. OK? NEARLY 100%.
FRANKLY I THINK THAT THIS IS IRRELEVANT.
AND THE DEAD EUROPEANS ARE A TRAGEDY AND THE US UNFORTUNATELY HAD A LIMITED POLICY TO GET INTO WW2 UNTIL 1941 BUT IT WAS CLEARLY INEVITABLE WE WOULD.
But get your factrs straight. Except for Russia and Britain BARELY hanging a stallmate against Germany's airforce, there was NO invasion of Europe to free it of HItler's clutches until 2.5 years after US entered the war. Do yourself a favor, stop embarrassing yourself-- try looking at a map of Europe in 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944 (pre June) and Then post June 1944 and look at the BIG RED SWASTIKA THAT KINDA WAS DRAWN OVER MOST EVERYTHING-- YEAH, THAT SWASTIKA THAT'S DRAWN OVER EVERYTHING. THAT WAS GERMANY AT IT'S HEIGHT OF POWER IDIOT. ONLY THROUGH AMERICAN INTERVENTION AND ITS INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION AND SHEER NUMBER OF MEN OF FIGHTING AGE AND SMART LEADERSHIP DID THE JUNE INVASION OCCUR AND BETWEEN THAT AND THE RUSSIANS FINALLY GETTING AN ADVANTAGE, WERE THEY DEFEATED. OMG I FEEL LIKE I'M TALKING TO A CHILD.
YOU ARE FROM SWEDEN SO G-D KNOWS WHAT IS WRITTEN IN YOUR TEXTBOOKS AND THAT MAY EXPLAIN YOUR STUPIDITY.
OH BY THE WAY, BY GRANDMOTHER'S GOLD TEETH WERE RIPPED OUT OF HER MOUTH AT AUSCHWITZ, RIGHT BEFORE SHE WAS GASSED AND BURNED, THEN THE TEETH WERE MELTED DOWN AND THE GOLD SHIPPED TO A VAULT IN YOUR COUNTRY SOMEWHERE; IF YOU HAPPEN TO STUMBLE ACROSS THEM, I'D LIKE THEM BACK SO I CAN BURY THEM WITH HER BODY TO COMPLETE HER RELIGIOUS RIGHT TO A BODY INTACT AT BURIAL.
YOU FUCKING IGNORAMUS.
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we are not at war with any of those countries you mentioned...we are at war with a militant islamic group that uses those countries for safe harbor...comparing any of the current conflicts to the war with Japan is just the height of idiocy...makes me feel better about the American public school system if this is the kind of crap they are teaching you in Sweden
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WHAT AS CHANGED YOU ASK??????
ARE YOU KIDDING? DO YOU NOT SEE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FIGHTING AN ARMY OF A GOVERNMENT, WITH DEFINABLE LEADERSHIP THAT WEARS A UNIFORM, VS. RELIGIOUS FANATICS BENT ON A RELIGIOUS WAR AGAINST JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY AND THE WEST. R U KIDDING ME?
FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, A NUKE RIGHT NOW HAS ZERO ROLE IN PAKISTAN (AN ALLY), IRAN OR AFGHANISTAN.
THE EXCEPTION BEING IF IRAN GETS ONE AND THREATENS SAUDI ARABIA OR ISRAEL THEIR NUKE FACILITIES SHOULD BE CONVENTIOANLLY BOMBED TO THE GROUND AND THEIR COUNRY INVADED AT THOSE SITES AND THE COUNTRY SHOULD BE ATTACKED UNTIL THEY ARE NO LONGER A THREAT. THEY ARE A GRAVE THREAT. BUT RIGHT NOW, NO WAY.
DUDE, SERIOUSLY, HOW OLD ARE YOU? -
You'll blow a gasket! Are you prepared to operate on yourself?
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a goverment that may or may not support or fight it. When Afghanistan was run by Taliban and they did 9/11 you bet your ass that government needs to go. But there is NO government to "surrender" now, just religious fanatics who are motivated to kill us because of our ways. Listen to their words-- do you hear them say that they just want us out of here or there, no they call us the Infidels, etc... dude, WTF are you learning in that school system of yours, seriously. you have to start reading something different becasue your mind if full of misinformation.
by the way, my apology I misread, i thought you said you are from Switzerland.
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They will never be skinny. And I'll wager it's genetic.
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a tiny minority of obesity exists in people who have no control over it.
if Calories IN > Calories burned(out) you can weight. period. -
Just make sure you rest up for surgery. And take out the right organ, for God's sake. I've heard horror stories ... you know ...
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and a surgeon. Always a fascinating day around here.
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regarding the moral justification of using weapons of mass destruction. I wasn't literally comparing the situation in WW2 to that of Afghanistan. I was merely stipulating that IF for example there had been a war with say...Iran. Then in order to save allied lives it would have been justifiable to NUKE Iran?
I guess i need to remind myself that 90% of you read everything absolutely itteral and cant draw any conculsons or parallels that is not explicitly written in clear text. You are fucking robots. FIGURATIVELY speaking of course....
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Did any of you right wing blowhards watch the first episode or are you just here to bitch and moan?
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peace
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Mar 15, 2010 1:17:47 AM CDT
I don't care how many lives dropping the nukes saved
by king sweyn forkbeard
If anything they didn't bomb those fuckers enough.
Japan was responsible for upwards of 20 MILLION deaths from the mid 30's onwards, all with the approval of the Emperor who had the fanatical devotion of the Japanese people. China and Korea both paid the price of Japanese imperialism, not to mention the abuse, torture and murder of Allied POW's and civilians in occupied areas.
The capper is that even today there are apologists and deniers in Japan who try to play down and sweep under the carpet the full horror of the crimes committed against civilians and POW's in the name of the Emperor. At least the Germans are contrite. -
What would it take to nuke Iran? Uh a lot and not a simple analysis.
Like if they exploded a bomb in their desert and said surprise !! We have nukes and in two days we will nuke tel aviv
or sell one to a terrorist group unless they get their way. They should be stopped
then. When someone is aiming a gun at Your head with the hammer cocked back you have any right to preemptively kill them.
Dude you live in a fantasy land -
It was good
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The Alamo,Fuck Yeah,Band Aids,LasVegas,Christmas,Immigrants,Popeye,Republicans,Democrats...Fuck Yeah,sportsmanship, Books!!! Love that song
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You're completely right about WW2, and the history around it.
I think it does a bit of a disservice to mix it up with current political nonsense, though. This isn't a liberal/conservative thing; any halfway educated Democrat, and there are many, know the history and understand the reason for the bombs.
The kneejerk reaction against nukes isn't necessarily a left/right issue; it's just an issue of ignorance. Just like, say, creationism vs evolution isn't a left vs right issue, but an issue of ignorance and education. -
are the talking about how corpses in jungle turn completely black just like a dead gook they find in the beginning of platoon?
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but then again, so was that pretty cop woman they brought in, and she turned out to be pretty fucking awesome in Rescue Me
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provokes such a heated discussion even so many decades later. Pearl Harbour was a terrible, sneaky attack against a military institution. The american answer to that was vaporizing two cities worth of civilan families. In war, everybody is an asshole, that's why it's war.
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No matter what you rah rah America, revisionist pricks seem to think.
Japan was trying to negotiate and because they didn't accept all our demands fast enough we used our other bomb on them. They would conceded eventually, especially as the devastation from Hiroshima became known.
Also, they were not military targets any more than Dresden was. Of course, it's our policy to bomb water supplies and hospitals, nowadays. Ever since the Blitz, the majority of US targets are civilian in nature. Learned all the right lessons from the Germans in that war. -
Mar 15, 2010 6:44:16 AM CDT
hst666 you are so wrong and another semi or total American hater
by corplhicks
you wrote "Ever since the Blitz, the majority of US targets are civilian in nature. Learned all the right lessons from the Germans in that war."
really??? and that is why we had intense bombing raids in the military infrastructure and shipping aspects of the enemy right? and developed smart bombs, etc.. since that are accurate down to meters.
The concept of bombing civilian targets was part of our world back then after the fucking Germans began murdering millions by air, sea, and land indiscriminately like that.
Nagasaki is defensible because Japan was SILENT after Hiroshima.
also, blowing up a bomb in a remote area would not show the government or people there what was really at stake. In a world without CNN around to attack the US at every turn, only a minority of Japanese citizens even knew the bombings occurred. And sometimes, also, a sad truth is that when your country has just brutalized tens of millions of people all around you for about a decade and is SILENT on surrender after bomb #1, sometimes a little payback in your face is appropriate.
It is not rah rah rah American pricks that think this.
THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A COUNTRY ON EARTH THAT HAS ENGAGED IN WAR ON LARGE SCALES AND HAS HONORED BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS DURING WAR TIME AS CAREFULLY AS AMERICA HAS, HAS THERE! IF SO PLEASE POINT ONE OUT TO ME.
again,
WHICH PART OF EUROPE ARE YOU FROM? THE PART WE SAVED, OR THE PART WHOSE ASS WE KICKED ?" -
We did not jump into WW1-- in fact we entered it the last year or so.
We did not jump into WW2-- in fact we entered it after a little over 2 years in, when our soil was attacked from a nation thousands of miles away.
And once those assholes saw the wrath of our sleeping lion, freedom was restored again, that is until some other totalitarian, blood thirsty, crazy people decided to try to take over the world and murder others again on a global scale. Then we helped END it.
Geez, do you morons even recognize how much you owe America, England, Canada, France, and even Russia ?
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The British did a whole lot of civilian killing themselves. They also didn't afford Rommel the same courtesy he gave them in North Africa. Rommel would order his troops not to fire on British trying to reclaim their dead and told them to avoid hospitals. He also made sure his prisoners were well taken care of and he even SHORTED his own forces supplies if it meant keeping them alive. The British didn't. Rommel was a class act...it's too bad he got implicated in that whole Valkyrie mess and had to kill himself to save his family+staff.
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you wrote this:
guess he 50 million dead europeans did absolutely nothing right? Nah you "kicked everybodys ass"
well again you really don't get it do you????
teh USA lost nearly 500,000 soldiers (dead) in WW2-- you are quoting civilians mostly there. Bulgaria (barely) and Russian lost more in the European theater of operations.
Also another 500,000 were wounded
So about 1 million dead or wounded--- is that not enough for you?
which country lost more? Russia and China and look who they were fighting and for how long.
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Yes, Rommel was a warrior and not apparently much of a hate monger etc... who knows exactly as he was a part of the Nazi war machine anyway which viewed the people of N. Africa as slave races and scum. You act like he is a hero???!!!! dude, I'm sure note every single Japanese General was a fanatical psychopath either but doesn't mean they are praise worthy just because one cog in an evil machine is cleaner than the one next to it. OMG,
It's like some of you are trying SO hard to find good in the Germans and Japanese of that time, and EVIL in America and England at any cost.
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JUST FOUND THIS:
http://www.amazon.com/WHAT-PART-EUROPE-WHOSE-SAVED/dp/B0002U6KZW
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Let's Nuke Japan again. They deserve it. Have you seen their porn!?
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Poland was neither saved nor ass kicked by America, unless you count us cravenly abandoning it to the Reds. Poles fought the entire damn war against both totalitarian states and kept fighting it after so called V-E Day.
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And it's understandable. However fun the recruitment antics might be, as sheer drama it compeltly pales to the war itself. In my country this series starts airing next sunday. I'll be there.
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with Woody Harrelson
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Mar 15, 2010 9:11:33 AM CDT
"we entered (WW2) 2 years in, when our soil was attacked"
by scratchmonkey
Oh, please. The USA had been conducting an underhanded economic war against Imperial Japan since the mid-thirties, ever since its invasion of mainland China. The USA's sneaky involvement in Japan's affairs culminated in the USA cutting off Japan's oil supply, an act which led Japan to seek oil elsewhere. They settled on the Dutch East Indies and were *forced* into attacking Pearl Harbour in order to prevent the US forming a blockade between Japan and its new oil supply. Pearl Harbour was *caused* by the USA's short-sighted foreign policy. But America's never been one to blame itself for the bad things that happen to it, has it?
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Leave Japanese porn alone man! I love the non blurred out stuff!
And expert4o, as a former Marine and veteran of the Gulf War I'm telling you to calm the fuck down and stop demonizing fellow Americans. Fuck dude the guy you were raging against probably isn't even American and yet you took the opportunity to take a shit on half of your fellow countrymen. And another thing, I went to college in the last 20 years and I don't know what revisionist fucking history you are talking about. My BA is in history. Where did you go to school? -
Did you stop to consider why the American's cut off Japan's oil supply? I don't know but do you think the people suffering under Japanese occupation in China were at least a little grateful that the Americans were at least trying to help them out?
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I give it a "B". Only because of the poor way the introduction to the three main characters was handled. The editing was choppy and there just wasn't enough information given about any of the characters. We didn't learn Sledge is from Mobile until his buddy read a letter from him. I don't even know where the other two guys are from.
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I think you have been scratching your monkey too much. Maybe USA blocked japan's oil to slow it's brutal murdering expansionist behavior. Yeah, you fucking moron, American started WW2, sure. That's why Japan invaded China and Korea and Philippines and Guam and Borneo and Hong Kong and had their eyes set on Australia. And why they aligned themselves with Nazi Germany and that's why they brutally murdered tens of millions of civilians and executed military POWs left and right. Yeah, all America's fault. Please, you idiots, just STFU already.
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Give it a B-- beginning was a little choppy. I get the idea that Americans from all walks of life and ideas etc were suddenly about to be sent thousands of miles away to fight. Yeah. But the intro could have been a little tighter. Still, the latter 1/2 of episode was very good. Realizing your enemy is not some buck tooth savage but a real dangerous foe with aggressive troops and a good navy is a wake up call.
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It's incredible how an off hand remark by a writer on this site can spark this crap. Anyway, I do think maybe this episode seemed a little bland at first. But, yeah, every BoB episode wasn't perfect. I think once we get into the war it'll be more interesting. But, I think we should all be warned. This is not the same as "Band", and it looks like we will be getting some more personal stories, people being back home at times, etc. That may turn some people off a bit, if they just want the war story that Band was.I know how people like to expect every WW2 story to be a "rah rah america!" story, but this is definitely not that. Just look at the scene where some American soldiers are slowly firing on the surviving Japanese soldier and some even laughing as they make him suffer. And one of our heroes, disgusted, puts him out of his misery. Definitely not a story showing war as a 100% heroic, nostalgic endeavor. But we also saw the butchered dead soldiers and the injured Japanese soldier looking for help and then setting off his hidden grenade.But I am still on the side of the fact that simply enlisting and believing you have to do you part to stop the world from being conquered is heroic.
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And I believe the Hiroshima bombing was justified. Nagasaki? It's debatable, not entirely a black/white issue. I don't think it was a necessity. We would've won without it. After the devastation of the first bombing sank in, the 2nd bomb could've been used as an effective deterrent for further conflict. Had Japan been given time and not surrendered, then another bomb could've been dropped. No offense to the post-war Japanese - but let's face it. Imperial Japan was a fucking monster. Cruel, inhuman. They showed no mercy to anyone and it's to our credit that we showed them the mercy we did.
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is any indication of things to come, it's gonna be a very powerful series.
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Mar 15, 2010 9:59:06 AM CDT
I FEEL EMPATHY FOR THE VICTIMS OF HIROSHIMA/NAGASAKI
by bringingsexyback
I can't help it. You can't know that everyone who died was part and parcel of the evil that gripped Japanese society, just like not every German was a Nazi. It is tragic that innocent people died in the bombings, but the blame is squarely at the feet of Hirohito and his followers. That's the danger of any nation led by charismatic war mongers. That's what happened to us under Bush, and we still have retards defending the Iraq war, as evidenced in the Green Zone talkback. They should be nuked.
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I took away the same thing. By humanizing the enemy in the first episode, it looks to be on the path of the Horrors of War, more than the Us vs Them slant.
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Sledge's book, "With the Old Breed" is a dark look at mans inhumanity to man. Lecke's book also, these two told it how it was. It's going to be interesting to see how this is treated on screen.
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I did find that very interesting when Seda was explaining that the Japanese are actual soldiers to be reckoned with, and not buck toothed cartoons, or whatever it was. Lots of propaganda in entertainment at the time depicted them as either wild animals, or goofy characters to be laughed at.I also don't think the series will pretend many of the Japanese soldiers weren't fanatical, and often more brutal because of that. But of course, they ALL weren't.
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All the sacrifice and bloodshed of WWII brought us to this screaming rabble of sickeningly arrogant dittohead scumbags and capslock morons. Two empires couldn't destroy what it took a generation of delusionally short-sighted babies to undermine with their own actions. Apparently, the USA's only real vulnerability was it's own unlimited hubris. -
Band of Brothers was extremely close (especially for Hollywood) to the written account by Ambrose and the men of Easy company.
If that's 'meh' (a nonsense word, used by lazy, inarticulate people by the way), then I guess real life is boring to you, and should be disregarded, eh? -
Has a seen where they find the heads of two Marines. Not only were the men decapitated, the Japanese cut the penises off the bodies and stuffed them into the mouths of the heads. Wonder if that will be in the series?
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I'm not that dumb.
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I think a B is the right score for Part One...things happend "a little" too quickly for me...if you're going to show these guys homelives you gotta give us a little more than what they did...I don't really dislike not having all the characters names imprinted in my mind after episode one...with war miniseries, "BoB, Over There, Generation Kill" etc it always takes me a couple episodes to learn everyones name...pretty good start with TONS of upside
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"who knows exactly as he was a part of the Nazi war machine anyway which viewed the people of N. Africa as slave races and scum. You act like he is a hero???!!!!"...His view points were always "I fight for Germany, not for Nazis". Work needed to be done for Germany? He was pay wages for the work of the local population, not enslave them. He was witnessed to actually BURN orders from Hitler that demanded that all British Commandos and French Resistance fighters be immediately executed as spies/illegal combatants. One famous story recalled by a British Commando was he was captured while trying to get intel on German beach defenses in France prior to D-Day. He was brought directly to Rommel. Rommel made sure the British Commando was placed in a POW camp with good conditions. Under Hitler's orders, the man should have been executed. The commando even shook his hand. He also refused to let the SS march in front of his Panzer division during a parade in Germany, since he felt it sullied his unit. He wasn't a Nazi. During the whole Valkrye debacle, Rommel was approached as a possible replacement of Hitler after an assassination because he was the -only- person in the Germany military command that had any respect of the Allied Powers. They figured they would need a guy in power that the allies actually "liked" in order to negotiate an end to the war. He was also noted as feeling that Hitler needed to be put on trial for his criminal mismanagement rather then assassinated, and as such, he didn't get directly involved. But his name was dropped during the interogations and since he didn't immediately report the attempt to Hitler, he was likewise labeled as a traior...in secret. It would have been such a huge morale hit that they essentially did a Godfather 2 and gave him a state funeral /w military honors and simply stated that he died from wounds previously received.
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shit is played out.
nothing left to say about it.
move on. -
Mar 15, 2010 12:25:04 PM CDT
nbody is disputing that the jap empire had to be dealt with
by tradeskilz
But just because an enemy is perceived as evil does not mean that anything goes. How hard can that be to understand? It is the MORAL IMPERATIVE of good men to show mercy and restraint even in the face of evil. That is what makes us good men. To quote a good movie "It is a kingdom of conscience, or nothing".
We are all grateful to America for supplying the allied war machine during WW2 and for the brave men who died fighting for us. BUT as history shows America viewed WW2 as a European war and remained neutral until the bombing of pearl harbor. Its not like you guys were dying to rescue Europe from the Nazis even though we were involved in the most catastrophic war in the history of the world. Japan and Germany pretty much forced Americans hand. If no threat of intercontinental missiles existed or if japan hadn't attacked America would you still have intervened? Or silently watched Europe burn to the ground? In any case Russia would have defeated Germany with or without American aid. So NO we would not have spoken German if not for you guys. If anything Russia and England won the war against Germany.
If we are to believe Hollywood the war started and ended with D-day and the pacific campaign. The 25 million dead European soldiers were merely a footnote in history. Maybe if America would have entered the war early (for ones) so many people would not have died but i guess Americas style is to hang back and enter the race at the finish line. Where where you high morals and defender of the world sentiment then? When millions of you allies died in the trenches. -
on hour one not being indicative, of the series' quality. I liked it; it went by very quickly, but it didn't seem to get completely established.
Getting the stories going must have been a little tougher than on BoB, since these guys didn't go through basic and jump school as an already established unit, the way Easy Company did.
I'm looking forward, to the remainder, of the season. -
Other than Russia the ONLY country that lost more troops then the USA in Europe was Germany !!!!!
And the US was not "neutral" we were supplying pilots and hardware to England. YOu really think we would have let Germany take over?? no. And russia woudl not have been able to defeat them on their own were it not for America.
NO one said the war began in 1944 except you
How can you deny that the D-day landings spelled teh end of the war for Germany.
within months over a million troops were landed at 4 beaches:
American X 2, England 1 beach and CAnada 1 beach.
You owe i to them adn Russia for your freedom.
your numbers are way off a total of maybe 25 millions soldiers died in entire war, including Axis and including Pacific theater
how soon they forget, HUH/
ww1 was going nowhere without USA. after we entered the war was over in a year
ww2-- we helped turn the tide and we were fighting a war on TWO fronts. Were YOU??????
were you fighting actively against Germany and Japan????
get a fucking clue.
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Face it, the fact that Japan didn't surrender the instant that it got nuked the first time shows that the second bomb was sadly necessary to drive the point home.
i'm a lifelong left-wing liberal but i think the historical record shows pretty clearly that the US invasion of Japan would have risked mass casulties. Anything else is just hand-wringing. -
you have got to be kidding me?
Europe cannot handle its own fucking backyard-- just look what happened during the "mini holocaust" just about 12 years ago with the Serbs etc... Europe did absolutely NOTHING while basically people were being exterminated yet again. Clinton got NATO going. Where were the European countries banding together to go after this Genocide. please.
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My god you really have been brain washed. I understand, it must be nigh impossible to admit to yourself how wrong that whole thing was. It would probably shatter your whole american ego.
You guys are playing with fire with that kind of attitude. -
Mar 15, 2010 1:05:31 PM CDT
corplhicks. It was Russia that did the most to win the war.
by toadkillerdog
It was Russia and the Eastern Front that won WWII. D-Day as horrific as it was, is greatly over rated as the reason the war came to a close. By the time the Americans landed at Normandy, over 75% of the German army had been destroyed. The Wehrmacht was totally wiped out. There was no air cover at all on those beaches for German soldiers. D-day was more of a diversion to allow Russia to push towards Berlin. I am a former USMC, but I am also a student of history. And the way the Russian contribution - 20 million lives lost in Europe not including the 1 million they lost fighting the Japanese, is an almost criminal oversight.
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including 2 British (Sword & Gold), with the 1 Canadian (Juno) between them (not sure if those were typos, but felt compelled to clear it up nonetheless)
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Fortunately NATO could act without UN mandate. And we DID do something, we used 15 NATO countries to force the serbs to negotiate. It wasnt a pure American initiative. However you are right that america did bring he ass kicking that needed to happen.
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America was just emerging from an isolationist policy that dominated politics during that era. Mobilizing the nation -yet again, to fight a war on another continent, was not a simple task. It seems some can not help but criticize America regardless of what we do, if we wait because we do not want to be dragged into the conflict on another continent, we are criticized. If we seem to eager for conflict, we are criticized. And yes, the second bomb was necessary. To view it through the prism of today's moral outrage is to totally disregard the exigencies of the day.
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We as people can still learn so much from that time in history. It really is the defining moment in modern time.
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At Hiroshima Jesus Christ!
remove spaces
before:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/AtomicEffects-p7a.jpg
After:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/AtomicEffects-p7b.jpg -
Should the USa have surrendered for peace with Japan after Midway? In the 1990's a European documnetary said we should have. Then we could have sent those troops to Europe and ended the war in 1944.
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England and Russia? No U.S. help?Would you mind not ignoring the sacrifice of the U.S. Army Air Corps in their campaign against German industry? Their casualty rate was horrific. Also, you might want to give a shoutout to the U.S. ship building industry that put out ships faster than Doenitz's U-boats could sink them.
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HIROSHIMA
The Americans bombed and asked for surrender. The Japanese refused.
NAGASAKI
Bombed and they surrenered.
It was projected that the war would last a least a few more years and kill millions to take the island of Japan.
I know it is really popular to hate the US for nuking them, but reserve your judgment those that survive. -
I'm a pretty big liberal, but by pure statistics, we made the right choice.
It was a horrible choice, but the regime forced our hands.
Also, I want to second toadkillerdog's point about Russia.
This perception that America basically won the whole war has always bugged me a great deal, because its a pure fact that Russia destroyed the largest portion of the German forces, and at a far greater cost in lives. Stalingrad, the tank and air victories at Kursk basically shifted the momentum of the war and forced the German's into retreat. Of course, we'll never know whether they could have finished the push to Berlin without the US invasion. At any rate, the war would have gone on much longer and cost many more lives if the US hadn't intervened, so lets be grateful they did.
Here's to hoping HBO does a show on the eastern front at some point, that would really be something.
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yeah, nukes go boom, make big damage ! so what? They deserved it, and more importantly it ended the war in days rather than years. FACT.
Look NO ONE should hate the US for nuking Japan. period. They killed many people but a TINY percentage to what Japnese and German did for years. You think the Blitzkreig is any less inhumane?
Literally the world was at stake and many millions of lives would have been lost even more.
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Neiher Germany or Japan surrendered until the bitter bitter end. Hitler NEVER surrendered, ever, remember, his country was overrun with Russians swarming all over his capital city and he didn't surrender. Come on will you,
Japan was done and finished and they didnt' surrender, not even after Nuke #1
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Dude I was not arguing with you. I support the decision, it was the right one. I was merely showing the pictures to those who had not seen them before. It's powerful stuff.
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You can make the case that dropping the bomb was a necessary evil, but when you make the moral leap that "they deserved it," in my estimation you cease to be a person who's opinions are worthy of consideration, like Jerry Falwell or Fred Phelps or Ward Churchill, who all believe that the innocent victims of tragedy "deserved it." -
Before dropping bomb 2. Strategically i can justify the use of the first nuke when taking in to consideration the time at when it was used. Even though i cannot morally justify its use i can understand the reasons for it. The second one was just an act of evil. It proably hadn't even fully dawned on the Japaneese what had occured.
Also i almost feel obligated to end every post i make with an obligatory praise of the brave American men who fought and died in the war. But i have already mentioned it and frankly, the bravery and sacrifice of those men has never been in to question. -
Is that what you are saying?
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You are a fucking blithering moron of the highest magnitude. For the good of humanity, please kill yourself.
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When Sweden and the rest of Europe are taken over by radical muslims just as you are laying down and letting them do, guess who will come to your aid?
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You call me a moron and wish that i kill myself? Do you really think one such as i would take someone like you seriously? You are the dog-shit under my boot. It scares me people like you get to vote presidents in to power.
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Mar 15, 2010 2:32:59 PM CDT
tradekilz, I'm glad that you're hindsight is 20/20, but
by coughlins laws
the burden of proof is on you to prove that Japan would have surrendered. Facts back up that they wouldn't because they didn't. We know for a fact we would have lost one million American lives. We saved over 5 million lives total. Why did you want those 5 to 6 million people to die?
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for Douchelords. Enjoy it, fuckers. And if dropping the bombs saved 1 American Sailors life, then I'm down with it. Mess with the bull and get the horns, world.
And not to throw history into it, but the reason the Russians steamrolled to Berlin is because Hitler had to recommit his forces to France when the American's entered the fray. The less to be learned, of course, is to squash cumlickers like Hitler in the bud to avoid problems later on, but I'm sure 80% of the pasty screeching iternet turds on here think meglomaniacal lunatics like Kim Jong Il and That-fucker-from-Iran-whose-name-no-one-can-spell are just valid leaders with a different world view that should be considered and valued equally with ours in the interest of furthering the community of nations. Fuck that. -
Mar 15, 2010 2:35:49 PM CDT
As far as Russia playing a huge part in the War, of course
by coughlins laws
they did. That's not the point. If America never entered the War, Germany probably wouldn't have been defeated and Japan DEFINITELY wouldn't have been defeated. WW2 ended with the Allies winning because of America's involvement, PERIOD. If America didn't become involved, The Axis would not have been defeated...
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Beyond the thousands of planes and tanks it was the steel and machine parts America provided to Russia early on were critical to it's ability to later crank out the tanks and guns (in '43) that allowed them to steamroll the Eastern front.
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I didn't run out of arguments. Not that they would've done any good with a moronic cunt like you.
I just wanted to chime in and let you know what an idiotic douchebag you were, that's all.
Now again, please kill yourself, dickhead. -
Build a fucking time machine, go back and tell all those people that the bombs are coming from them. Then enlist in the army and storm the beaches of Japan and get mired in a year long drive to the capital. Let all these guys that die beside you that you could have ended it with the war inside a week, but said fuck it, this shit is more humane.
Armies are created and used to allow the enemy the maximum opportunity to die for his country.
And ending war as soon as possible is the most humane way to do that.
I am maybe the most bleeding heart liberal you will find in America and I say this....If the bombing saved lives in the long run, fine. -
The military attempted a coup against the Emperor when he finally agreed to surrender.
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Why are we even bothering? His country were the cowardly little pussies of that war, supposedly remaining neutral while their European neighbors were getting the shit kicked out of them. But neutral they certainly were not. They were Hitler's bitch, bending over and allowing German troops to travel through Swedish territory, providing Germany with iron ore, etc.
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Ep 1 was solid, tense, fairly well focused. I'd like to stick in a vote for the North Africa, Sicily and Italy campaigns as worth revisiting. My grandfather fought through Tobruk, El Alamein, Anzio. Occasionally he'd let stuff slip out, stories, incidents, characters he knew, partisans and people he met. Came home to my grandmother without a scratch on him. It's only when I started reading the history in my teens (a while ago now) I realized the extent of the shit these men - well, all soldiers everywhere in ww2 - went through. Humbles me, pierces me still. And it's good that drama is still being made of it. These are stories worth telling, and worth remembering. Shit, I miss him.
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You know for a FACT japan wouldn't have surrendered without nuking two cities? Are you psychic or something? You bring nothing but conjecture and speculation to the table yourself. I never claimed they would surrender for a fact but they should have been given EVERY opportunity to do so in light of what was coming. Two nukes within days is not ample time to negotiate anything. Its revenge.
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You and your pussy coward countrymen don't get to comment on WW2.
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Some moron said that WW II is played out and that there are no more stories to tell. There are thousands left to tell.
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Mar 15, 2010 3:04:28 PM CDT
There is no doubt that America entering the war tipped scales
by toadkillerdog
And ultimately led to the defeat of Germany. No way in hell did Hitler want the U.S and its industrial might brought to bear. I think what war historians try to point out though, is that if the Russians had not absorbed 20 million dead, and inflicted 7-10 million dead Germans, as well as the destruction of 70-75% of German army, then D-Day would not have succeeded at all. After the war, Russia was the enemy, and no way in hell would history taught by the west accurately reflect what Russia did and sacrificed. It does not diminish the American contribution to acknowledge that others played as leading or more a role. We know what we did and sacrificed. The world knows the war would have either been lost or gone into stalemate without America.
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You know a TB is full of worthless armchair-warmongering neck-beards when *Coughlin* actually seems to have the most coherent regurgitation of GOP approved revisionist talking points.
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...somewhere, a tractor pull has an empty bleacher seat and a big foam finger waiting for you to take your correct place in the world. That's at least ONE concession stand that will be kept safe from Islamist aggression, for as long as your over-taxed colostomy bag holds out.
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...somewhere, a gay pride parade has an empty bleacher seat and a big rubber butt plug waiting for you to take your correct place in the world. Go fuck yourself, pussy.
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Nicely put about Russia absorbing the blood, the USA's casualties were a blip on the radar compared to the Russians. Stalin put it pretty succinctly when he said "America gives money, Britain gives time, only Russia gives blood".
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but the reason they gave so many lives is because Stalin and his generals were perfectly fine with the human wave/meatgrinder way of waging war. To them, their troops were completely expendable.
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Good one! See, your debate skills are wasted on world history and politics. Obviously, trading in various phobias (xeno, homo, etc) is your correct niche. And I saw that seat, but your dad was using it (quite strenulously, for a man at his age and decrepit health), and while that might conjure treasured memories from your non-traditional upbringing, I'm pretty sure even industrial grade bleach couldn't make it hygenic for anyone else to use ever again.
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Please tell us what on-topic points you've brought to the debate? Yeah, I didn't think so. Go fuck yourself, pussy.
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The mental image still haunts me. Considering you went through that for your whole childhood, I can understand why you've got issues that will take time and undestanding from fellow talkbackers to work through. Good luck!
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TSC, oh America gave blood as well, but without a doubt the Russians gave the most. KIY and just what do you think the Germans did? What do you think the Americans did? We sacrificed troops - nowhere near as many as Stalin, but we damn sure sacrificed troops. There are no niceties in war. You fight to win at all costs - or you will be destroyed.
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The topic is your dad's abuse, of himself and of you, and how it's led you to cling to BS to validate your twisted little worldview. I mean, I just skimmed your posts, but that's what I got. Other people are discussing WWII history, but I'm responding specifically to your posts, which are just the ramblings of a severely damaged emotionally stunted neck-beard. Did I miss something? -
Been a while. Hola ebonic.
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Exactly what "BS" am I clinging to and what is "twisted" about my worldview? Care to actually come up with some counter-arguments to what I've said? I'll sum it up for you. Tradeskilz is a cunt and he and his pussy "neutral" countrymen have no ground whatsoever in commenting on the moralities of the decisions of WW2. Go.
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Always good to see you lay the calm, collected factual smack down on the usual TB hysterics. And please excuse the troll bait, I must sheepishly admit I rarely have the patience for the high road anymore, especially when your posts (and others) say it so much more wisely and succinctly than I can manage. Hope things are good in your corner of the world! -
You are a garden variety armchair quarterback Islamophobe sub-moron neck-beard bragging about the accomplishments of actual honorable men in order to accomodate your need for validation through internet puffery rather than referencing any kind of actual contribution of your own (which, I'm guessing, you can't, as they don't exist) other than calling other people pussies on the internet and parroting ridiculously simplistic summarizations of world history as fed to you from AM radio. There is no point in "debating" you, as you're not equipped, factually or emotionally, for an honest debate; there IS, however, some small satisfaction in mocking you and your attempts to "win." You're welcome for the attention. -
Are you implying that the Germans and the Americans sacrificed troops in the same way as the Russians did? We didn't send human waves running at machine gun nests with only the 3rd or 4th soldier actually having a weapon. We didn't casually throw away lives the way the Russians did.
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Mar 15, 2010 4:02:36 PM CDT
Yeah, I didn't think you had the intellect to actually add to th
by king_in_yellow
Care to compare DD214s?
Go fuck yourself, pussy. -
That's how the Russians won. Not military strategist victories
that's why their troops suffered such losses. -
Out of respect for people like TKD who actually represent the military honorably (and whose service I can believe actually happened), I won't take that bait. But while your "service" obviously did nothing for your debate and critical thinking skills, I bet your potato peeling skills are unequaled, and if you put the life-skills you got from your dad into practice in the Navy, I imagine you're practically a LEGEND. -
I hate people on the internet. Because people come on ranting and debating history without knowing anything! The debate about A-bombs used in WW2 is huge! Not something that should be bitched about by movie nerds. Only a hand full of you have brought up valid points. Like the amount of people killed if they weren't used and the other reasons. The Soviet Union was planning to take over most of what the Japanese empire took over. The A-bombs were used to show the Soviets that the US was serious an power full, plus there are like dozens of other reasons along with that. Also more people were killed in fire bombing over all like the bombing of Dresden. That was a civilian city that burned to the ground. So some of you please just go read a little, not just for me but for yourselves.
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Figures, you pussy faggot. Potato peeling or not, it's more than a coward like you did. Again, if you're not going to add to the conversation then just shut the fuck up.
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Oh i have every right to comment on the morality of war. I've served my country on domestic and foreign soil (in one of the conflicts mentioned in this very talkback) I also needn't have killed a man to know that it isn't right.
You on the other hand seem to think you qualify to talk about war based solely on the accomplishment of the better men that went before you, on the grounds that you live on the same continent. I don't think you have even tried to make any arguments or raise any questions (unless you count questioning someones sexual orientation). And regarding my countries involvement in the war, I could write an essay on that subject but most of it would go above your head. The closest America has come to a modern war on their soil is Perl Harbor and you shat your collective pants at that and nuked two civilian cities. Whereas my country of then 7 million was surrounded by the Third Reich on one side and the Soviet Union on the other. Declaring war would have been PREPOSTEROUS. Even America who had the means and the manpower didn't want to declare war on Germany. -
All that and more has been brought up before in this TB. Nobody is impressed with your rehashed Dresden bombing facts. Keep believing yourself to be our intellectual superior though.
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How about you start with an essay about the war materials your pussy country provided to the Nazis? The only reason Hitler didn't bother invading Sweden was that it was (and still is) insignificant. Once he conquered the rest of Europe, do you think he would've just left you alone? I find it hilarious how you've criticized the US for waiting to enter the war when your country didn't do jack shit to help anyone except Hitler. Even France had the balls to stand up and fight.
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Don't kid yourself. You think all those countries voluntarily declared war or Germany? They got fucking invaded and many of those countries later joined the German army sending tens of thousands of volunteers to fight in the Waffen-SS. It was never a matter of choice or bravery. Germany left us alone because our iron was vital for the German war machine. One way or the other they would claim our Iron. At least as a neutral country we could control German influence over our country and be free to harbor Jew refugees and war children. If Germany had won the war we would have became a vassal state, no question about it but at that point it wouldn't have mattered. At the start of the war we had like 40 fucking tanks or something. I'm not kidding. We might as well just have surrendered and told Germany to take our country and do with it whatever they wanted.
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The Japanese were pretty much begging us to surrender prior to the dropping of those bombs. They had only one condition: that we let the emperor stay in power as a figurehead. We said no, it has to be unconditional, bombed them, and then let them keep their emperor anyway. So it was all about ego and scaring the Russians, not saving American lives. Can we please move past that notion already?
As for those anti-war hippie liberals, I never understood this. Pretty much every 20th war was brought to us by liberals. It was Ike who was warning us about the military industrial complex (and got us out of Korea). It wasn't until the Troskyite neo-cons came along, that the Republicans turned towards nation building. If you support the wars going on now, then you are anything but a small government conservative. You're a freakin' commie and likely a traitor to the constitution. -
You think the conquered countries sent "volunteers" do you? By the way, you were a vassal state.
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...but I did have to google "the King in Yellow," and that sounds like something that I'd actually like to read, from the sound of it. Sorry you're such a prick (with a verbal arsenal limited to one vulgar phrase), and seemingly can't recognize what constitutes civil debate or service to one's country in any fashion beyond the military, but thanks for the inadvertant suggestion, it's the most interesting thing you've brought to this talkback. And please tell your mom she left her toothbrush at my place again. -
Yeah, she told me you like a thorough raping with objects like that. Please remind us again what you've actually brought to this talkback that was anything other than insults? Oh yeah, nothing.
And as far as the service to one's country bullshit, you're the one who called me out on whether I've contributed or not. I didn't bring it up. -
No, of course not. Not in that way. However, all sides did sacrifice troops and in the case of the Germans near the very end, civilians including children. Strategic demands often trump the tactical situation which may call for the sacrifice of a unit in order to further the strategic goal - or at least the current strategic goal - because they can and do change That is war, you make a move and sometimes it is only a feint, but real men's lives are lost -knowingly. The Russians were at times cold, callous and incompetent. But let me guarantee you that they did not have a monopoly on those traits. They did however place much less value on the lives of their citizens
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How big is IKEA in Sweden? Is it a respected brand?
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Still fighting the good fight I see!
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I just sit back and watch you bring out the hickory!
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I try.
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What's a DD214 and what does it have to do with peeling potatoes?
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You can do it when you put your mind (giving you the benefit of the doubt, here) to it. And I haven't brought anything to this talkback besides insulting you, never claimed I did. You're the one who claimed you're "debating" by flinging vulgar grade school repartee without, yknow, actual substance to back it up. I just took your bait. I'd say it was a waste of time (as these TB's almost universally are), but now I've got some ideas for new reading material (there ya go, a blank check charity set-up for you to practice your t-ball grade, flame war skills) and you got to feel superior to someone smarter than you by pimping your theoretical service record on the internet. Now all you have to do is engage your capslock and challenge someone to a wrestling match and you'll have mastered the art of being a talkback tough guy! -
Capslock requires skills and expertise - it's not for the faint of heart.
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IKEA is huge in Sweden. Very well known obviously. They are not known for high quality furniture though. You get what you pay for.
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Capslock is like that gun the german guy gave to Ned to duel with in the Three Amigoes. Not only does great responsibility come with that kind of power, but your pimp hand must be strong (and judicious!) to wield it.
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a quick google search shows it is a way to request military records. As for peeling potatoes, my guess is that if a person had a particularly traumatic experience while pulling KP duty -notice I did not say KY, and they blocked out the potato peeling incident, then perhaps their records would show how the were discovered passed out in the kitchen with a peeled potato halfway up their anus
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Well I'd have to google it, but from context, it appears to be the kind of credential you trot out when you want to win an internet argument, but prefer to call your opponent "pussy faggots" rather than use facts or logic. See also, "I'm a cage-fighter/porn-star/industry-insider/C-No"
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That's what I get for having weak google-fu!
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when the Marines first arrived on the island and were trekking through the jungle could anyone make out what exactly they saw when they stopped?...I paused my DVR and still could not make it out clearly...it was definitely the dismembered body of a Marine or 2 but I couldn't see clearly what happened to them...it looked to me like 1 had his head chopped off and the other had his penis cut off...could anyone see that scene clearly?
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keep trying grasshoppah
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was some awesome, easy-to-use quick peeler. I'm often tasked with the carrot/potato/fruit peeling duties and am always on the search for the perfect tool.
Alas, the quest continues ... -
Tradeskilz man, hook me up!
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It looked to me like it was a Marine who had his neck tied to the tree, and some gruesome injuries to his body. Maybe he was stabbed with bayonets. It was fucked up.
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Isn't it about time we dropped a few Nuqular bombs on the terrorists in Terroristland before these evildoers aquire Nuqular bombs and do the indefensible and drop Nuqular bombs on someone ?
Or better still a dropped a biological weapon on the terrurist evildoers. That would show them.
P.S. War is hell ??? Who'd have thunk it! -
Man this looks sweeter every day, someone tell me the DVD's aren't too far off!
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What do u wanna hear? Russia did more?
Idiot! USA is surrounded by water. Being invaded basically is nearly impossible
war with japan was mixed naval and land emphasis on naval. War in Europe mostly land and air. Different TOA and strategies. At least early on. Germany had basically no surface fleet for example to speak of.
Many countries happily were part of axis and i listed them way above.
Croatia had concentration camps and one of the most brutal Nazis ever running it who was Croat.
By the way it's Jewish refugee not Jew refugee.
Russia did a lot and lost a lot because of two reasons: they cared not much for the lives of their soldiers and civilians and two Germany directly invaded them full on directly.
Industrially allies were vastly superior to axes especially USA
England two beach heads USA two beachheads and Canada one. It is they you owe freedom to also -
Being a passionate student of WWII history I think that the revisionists do need to acknowledge the truth about the bomb. First and foremost, we did warn the Japanese about the bomb before we targeted Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The horrific destructive power of nuclear weapons made it no less terrible but the truth is we did try to give them an opportunity to evacuate people. Secondly, the targets we bombed were hubs of their war machine manufacturing areas and not strictly civilian targets for whatever that was worth. Needless to say, at the end of the day human lives were destroyed in the most terrible and gruesome way ever seen in human history. Granted, hypothetical estimates did have death toll figures well above 2MM had we actually invaded Japan but of course now we'd never know. On a personal note, my admiration for the young heroes that helped save the world in the 1940's frequently called the "greatest generation" runs deep. Whenever I am lucky enough to meet these great people I make it my business to ask them respectfully about their memories of the war and thank them for their service. I met a man named Gene Young who was a Marine in the pacific theater and asked him what he thought of President Truman. He responded, "If it wasn't for Harry Truman, I would be dead. That man saved my life... To me that was all I needed to know to formulate an opinion.
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You say the A-bomb was "the most terrible and gruesome way ever seen in human history" to die. That's the only thing I have to disagree with. I'd much rather go in a flash than die in a firebombing raid. Or suffer an agonizing death after having a FAE dropped over my position. Napalm and flame throwers were pretty gruesome weapons as well. Yep, I'd take instant death by A-bomb over just about any other type of war death.
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According to IMDb, War and Rememberance cost 110 million in 1988. By a very rough estimate using the inflation figures for the 1989 Batman movie according to Box Office Mojo, in today's dollars W&R would cost around 200 million dollars. Perhaps CGI saved The Pacific 50 million. Anyway, both mini-series were not cheap. I always get skeptical when they say something is the most expensive ever made.
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However, if you compare the number of hours of show produced to the same amount of money going into a regular feature film, then either mini-series is cheap by comparison.
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...could be set in America and show the four or five years this nation sat back before deciding to help out. Still, the profit made from selling arms to Britain certainly came in handy. Not facts that are boasted about in forum arguments, strangely!
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I think the perception that the U.S. people think we won the whole war is put in people's head by the fact that Hollywood focuses on the American part of the war. But that is because Hollywood is American! Though the whole world sees American TV and movies, most filmmakers and studios are American. So, naturally they will focus on the U.S. in the war. For the most part, the days of mindless propaganda about the war have passed.As for Russia's part in the war, I would say that a major reason we never saw much about that was the Cold War. Right after the end of WW2, Russia became "the enemy", so the good the did was downplayed.
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The fact that we did not get into the war in the early years is not some fact hidden from anyone. Pretty much any education of the war I've been given -- even back to elementary school history -- does include the fact that many Americans wanted no part of the war, and saw it as a European problem. Part of that was due to the memory of entering WW1 on the side of European allies. As I think I heard it, FDR wanted to get involved, but much of congress wanted no part of it. Pearl Harbor proved to be the final straw that convinced people they couldn't be kept out of it.But to use those facts to say that the U.S. entry in the war wasn't a major boost to the effort, and didn't help speed up the end of the war is ridiculous. Plus, the TV show that started this whole discussion is about the sacrifices of the fighting soldiers on the ground. Their sacrifice is what this is all about, and as the series shows, many of these people believed it was their duty to fight, and were even upset if they weren't allowed to go.And stop acting like all of America believes their infallible nation won the entire war. These days, America includes many, many people who feel the need to explain why we're not great and apologize for everything. And remember, every talkbacker here is not a representative of the United States. Some people are uneducated, brainlessly patriotic people but many, many of us are not.
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"... sat back before deciding to help out."WWII officially began September 1, 1939Japan attacks Pearl Harbor December 7, 1941US declares war on Japan December 8, 1941Germany & Italy declare war on US December 11, 1941By my math, the US "sat back" before "deciding to help out" a little over 2 years. And, yes, building arms for Allied nations was profitable. It allowed the US to have up and running, before an official declaration of war, the infrastructure to effectively arm its soldiers and their allies. Plus that infrastructure was safe from enemy bombers (although supply routes were plagued by U-boats - six of one, half dozen of the other I guess).
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Mar 16, 2010 3:42:12 PM CDT
Only American liberals are upset about Hiroshima/Nagasaki
by darthvedder81
The Japanese won't even talk about it as they view the 1930's and 40's with embarrassment and shame. That makes sense since they, you know, started the whole thing.
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ALIVE
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I hope that misconception isn't gotten out of watching something like Enemy at the Gates (because the human wave 2 men per 1 gun thing never happened) because i think we're all smart enough here to realize it wasn't that simple even though us sophisticated western world types would like to think of those peasant russkies as throwing themselves with no clue about tactics, the human wave thing was more like the early part of the war but Stalin, unlike Hitler, learned and realized of his mistakes and instead gave more power to his generals during stalingrad. I think one of the operations around belorussia destroyed more german troops than russians. bagration or sometohing like that.
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Less emotion more facts. GOOD.
both bombs good, needed, and ended war in a week and saved millions of lives. -
In her Esquire interview Anna mentions a nude sex scene. Does it make the final cut?
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