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Quint renders a verdict in THE PEOPLE VS. GEORGE LUCAS at SXSW!

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with my thoughts from South By Southwest’s premiere screening of THE PEOPLE VS. GEORGE LUCAS. To be completely honest, I had no idea what the movie was going to be before taking my seat. You don’t have to be a genius to figure out what a documentary called THE PEOPLE VS. GEORGE LUCAS is about and it is everything you think it is. The film opens with an animation sequence of a drawn Lucas setting up projectors and a small screen that shows the titles of his films. First it’s THX 1138 and a few bowling pins with legs (fans, I guess) show up behind Lucas. Then it’s AMERICAN GRAFITTI and more pins show up, some jumping up and down. Then it’s STAR WARS and a giant mob show up, picking up Lucas and carrying on their shoulders, taking him through a toy store and then putting him up on a throne. Focusing on the symbiotic relationship between George Lucas and his fans the film chronicles a whole generation’s fascination with Star Wars, leading into the prequels and how those films caused a giant and negative reaction from the usually dependable and loyal fanbase. Director Alexandre O. Philippe was able to get some impressive interviews with people like OT producer Gary Kurtz and the ever disgruntled man-in-the-suit David Prowse, but the focus is always on the fans, which is both the point and the failure of this documentary. Failure might be too harsh of a word. It’s definitely a success at what it sets out to be, the definitive document on the arguments for and against the prequels, but the problem is that for anybody who is or was a Star Wars fan there is nothing new. It’s like listening to the discussions you’ve had with your friends ever since 1999 or even earlier… the real divide starts with the Special Editions. There are other angles, with professors discussing Star Wars’ true impact on culture and the gray area of the creator’s artistic rights vs. the audience’s right to the art. Those are fascinating topics, but are presented and quickly moved on from so they can get a bunch of fans talking about how stupid Jar-Jar Binks is. I’ve had these discussions, you’ve had these discussions and I’m sad to say that I think this movie’s about 5 years too late. It almost feels like its trying to open up old wounds. Most of us that hate the prequels have made our peace and moved on. Those that love them are happy anyway. I don’t know if you guys have seen Red Letter Media’s Mr. Plinkett reviewing The Phantom Menace, but if you haven’t… it’s the smartest, hilariously funny deconstruction of Episode 1 that I’ve ever seen. Plinkett points out inconsistencies and story flaws that I never could vocalize or even noticed (like in the opening scrawl Lucas says “two Jedi Knights” are on a mission and then he makes a big deal of Obi-Wan becoming a Jedi Knight at the end of the movie!), but the reason that works 10 years on from The Phantom Menace is very simple: it’s not a fanboy review. It’s not 70 minutes of talking about how stupid Jar-Jar is. He’s barely mentioned because he’s not the root of the problem with the prequels. The problem is in the writing and execution of the shoddy script and that’s a point I think is totally glossed over in THE PEOPLE VS. GEORGE LUCAS. Interviewees state that there’s no way Episode 1 could have lived up to what the movies' fans had been imagining since Obi-Wan told Luke about The Clone Wars and the man his father used to be way back in 1977. Bullshit. What we want is a good movie. The backlash isn’t about the movie not meeting expectation, it’s about the movies being poorly made. I won’t say THE PEOPLE VS. GEORGE LUCAS is boring. It’s not. It’s just beating a dead horse and lacks focus, trying to cover the entirety of what is essentially a very complicated issue. If Philippe had been able to keep the focus on the concept of an artist putting one of his creations out into the world and then struggling with his control over it, the way Lucas has, I think we would have gotten a documentary I could get excited about. What I love about that aspect is that there’s no clear-cut right and wrong. Does Lucas have the right to recut his films and add in a ton of dancing cartoons? Of course he does. Should he do that? That’s a more difficult question, especially when he’s of the opinion that the originals aren’t fit to see any kind of real new tech release, restoration or preservation. That to me is an interesting subject up for debate, not the 400th time you’ve seen people talk about how stupid Greedo shooting first is or that Midiclorians dispel the spiritual aspect of The Force as set up in the original films. Or if Philippe had wanted to chronicle Lucas’ arc from revolutionary, anti-corporation filmmaker to the head of a multi-leveled corporation he could have done that. There’s fascinating moments of this documentary that touch on this idea, with Lucas himself acknowledging the irony and an old interview with Francis Ford Coppola talking about how Star Wars could be the worst thing to happen to George Lucas, Filmmaker because it has forced him to become George Lucas, Entrepreneur. Coppola states that the Star Wars franchise might be worth billions of dollars, but the whole value of that franchise is one tenth the value of the filmmaker that George Lucas was and has denied us two decades of Lucas pursuing other interests because he has to control the juggernaut that is his little space adventure. There’s definitely a market for this kind of movie and I guess it’s valuable as a documentation of the geeky back and forths that have been going on in what used to be an incredibly tight-knit community, but as someone who has opinions that fall on both sides of the argument it just feels too much “been there done that” for me to be any more than lukewarm on it. There’s a better documentary in there, a more interesting documentary in my opinion, but what is there is done competently and professionally. It’s just misguided. Kind of like Lucas himself. If you haven’t seen Mr. Plinkett’s Episode 1 review I’m embedding them all below. You owe it to yourself to watch them all. It’s biting, but it’s also funny as hell and avoids snark (for the most part).













And here’s the trailer for his pending Episode 2 review:

With that I sleep. I have some reviews to catch up on tomorrow and hopefully I’ll start getting some interviews out to you soon. Already been a massively busy fest and I’m only 2 days into it. -Quint quint@aintitcool.com Follow Me On Twitter



Readers Talkback
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  • March 14, 2010, 5:17 a.m. CST

    hmm

    by SPYDERMANN_2099

    I figured the film would suck.

  • March 14, 2010, 5:18 a.m. CST

    this is the man..

    by nolan bautista

    ..who gave us American Graffiti,Star Wars and Indy..why the hate?

  • March 14, 2010, 5:20 a.m. CST

    The 70 minute review

    by Bob of the Shire

    Is genius. I've watched it all the way through three times so far, it's the final verdict on TPM.

  • March 14, 2010, 5:23 a.m. CST

    and THX-1138..

    by nolan bautista

    ..and ILM and the THX Sound System..i worship the man!

  • March 14, 2010, 5:24 a.m. CST

    Agree with you on Mr Plinkett's Review, Quint

    by Denty420

    As someone who was there in the cinema in '77, and again in '99, the two experiences couldn't have been more different.

  • March 14, 2010, 5:24 a.m. CST

    The Real Divide Started With Return of the Jedi

    by MANNZILLA

  • March 14, 2010, 5:25 a.m. CST

    nolan

    by Quint

    The undercurrent of the documentary is love. The reason why the fans get so pissed and the "raped my childhood" phrase caught on is because they do care and love about these movies, which is why it felt personal to them.<BR><BR>So that aspect is there. I personally acknowledge what the dude has done despite my dislike for the prequels. I'm sad that they're missed opportunities in my eyes, but I'll always have his early work and the brilliant collaboration with Spielberg that resulted in Dr. Jones.

  • March 14, 2010, 5:26 a.m. CST

    RedLetterMedia is currently preparing an AotC Review, too...

    by BurnHollywood

    ...After a fairly pointless digression into a two-part AVATAR attack that actually contradicted some of the excellent points he made in his TPM review. All the same, can't wait...

  • March 14, 2010, 5:37 a.m. CST

    A documentary about a bunch of whiny nerds? They should call it.

    by Cole_El

    AIN'T IT COOL TALKBACK: THE MOVIE

  • March 14, 2010, 5:46 a.m. CST

    Mr Plinkett

    by Righteous Brother

    what an absolute cunt. He sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher. There's no way I could listen to him drone on for 70 minutes.

  • March 14, 2010, 6 a.m. CST

    the woman in the basement woulda been way funnier...

    by BadMrWonka

    if he'd just panned past her and that was it. no reason to overdo it.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:02 a.m. CST

    the story of Lucas is a fascinating one

    by The_Crimson_King

    like it or not we owe a great debt to him, the man along with Spielberg literally created the blockbuster and modern movie geek culture and yet people shit on him any chance they get, the prequels were not as good as the original trilogy, but they weren't THAT people

  • March 14, 2010, 6:03 a.m. CST

    the same goes for Kingdom of The Crystal Skulls

    by The_Crimson_King

    which I liked

  • March 14, 2010, 6:03 a.m. CST

    *but they weren't THAT bad people

    by The_Crimson_King

  • March 14, 2010, 6:12 a.m. CST

    Am I the only one that thinks nerds need to wise

    by bongo123

    The fuck up? Jesus Christ there fucking movies, the originals were brilliant, I had the toys and bought every new edition as they came out but that's where it stops, this borderline fanatism/extremism when it comes to starwars makes me want punch one of these fuckers. So what the prequels weren't the second coming of Christ big fucking deal, Lucas could release a new cut of starwars in which he kills off Solo and the guy would still be an absolute legend in my book, fucking whiny starwars nerds and fucking whiny nerds in general need to fuck off and die along with the dicks that made this documentary, the guy give us Indy and he can nuke him or paIr him up with jarjar in his next movie for all I care cause at the end of the day they are his creations and he can do whatever the fuck he wants with them...

  • March 14, 2010, 6:14 a.m. CST

    "Raped my childhood"

    by Son of the Suns

    anyone that seriously used that phrase was never going to like the prequals and wouldn't have liked the originals if they came out today. Because it's just too cool to be negative.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:27 a.m. CST

    I love ALL The Star Wars movies

    by sonnyfern

    I freaking adore the original films and I dig the hell out of the prequels. They're big, fun, crazy, nutso adventure movies. Revenge Of The Sith is great stuff. I can understand the backlash, but really, I think folks is crazy.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:27 a.m. CST

    RighteousBrother

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Plinkett is a character. The voice is part of the character. That's not the guys real voice, mate.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:31 a.m. CST

    I do however have one big complaint with Lucas

    by The_Crimson_King

    and that's that he needs to get working on blu rays of all the Stars Wars and first three Indy movies NOW!

  • March 14, 2010, 6:33 a.m. CST

    Was watching Plinkett

    by SavageJuicebox

    Way back when he was doing Star Trek movie deconstructions and only has a couple of hundred views. Welcome to the party bandwagon. And yes I do want a cookie.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:37 a.m. CST

    Same with me, my only beef with Lucas & Spielberg

    by bongo123

    Is the two of them need to stop denying their actual fans not those whiny cunts a chance to watch their movies on bluray, I mean seriously what the fuck is the hold up

  • March 14, 2010, 6:37 a.m. CST

    Plinkett

    by Kizeesh

    WHATS WRONG WITH YOUR FAAAACE??<p> He's great, but the basement scenes need to be cut back. They go on too long.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:38 a.m. CST

    I agree bongo123

    by The_Crimson_King

    although it seems like Spielberg movies are slowly starting to come out on blu ray, Minority Report and Saving Private Ryan are coming out on blu ray soon

  • March 14, 2010, 6:41 a.m. CST

    I don't understand all the hate for the prequels, honestly...

    by Marksman91

    Look, lemme first say here that I am a BIG fan of Star Wars. Not like HARDCORE big, I just bought the movies and a lot of the LEGO sets, but I could quote almost the entire original trilogy, hence why I consider myself a big fan. And you know what? I dug the hell out of the prequels as well. Sure, they're not as good as the OT, but whatever! They're still fun movies for me to watch. Could they have been better? Sure, but hey, things are what they are, and the prequels sadly wasn't the 2nd coming of Jesus that all the overly-optimistic fans were expecting. <P> Of course, maybe the fact that I was born in 1991 had a lot to do with my liking of the prequels. I was freaking 8 years old when I watched TPM. But hey, I still find them enjoyable to this day, especially RotS. Honestly, I think making a documentary about fans rants for the sequels is stupid, immature, unnecessary and pointless. Thanks, Quint, for letting me know that even as a fanboy rant against the sequels, it was still not that good. Never was interested in watching this film anyway, which I had just heard of thanks to this article.<P> Oh, and the little "divide" between the fans didn't start with the prequels (again showing how even the content of the film was a bit too out of date), it started with the Special Editions of '97, which I, surprise, surprise, find also better than the original cuts. The only change I guess that I thought was unnecessary (but didn't dislike either) was Sebastian Shaw being replaced by Hayden Christensen in his "ghost" form at the end of RotJ, but everything else, IMO, makes the SEs better, or at the least, doesn't make them worse.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:43 a.m. CST

    Mr Plinkett

    by MrPoop

    I liked the prequels. I watched the first couple of parts and that guy is a bitch. The story was a tragedy with a bummer ending leaving a glimpse of hope for the future. I knew that before TPM came out, but this guy seems he wanted another original trilogy. I liked that Lucas moved away from traditional/cliched story archetypes for the prequels and did something new.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:50 a.m. CST

    Mrpoop

    by Kizeesh

    I'd argue that the plinkett reviews are actually pretty spot on.<p> You might not agreee with every point but some of his observations are genius. You should watch the whole thing though.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:51 a.m. CST

    There is no debate, the Prequels are horrible filth. The end.

    by IndustryKiller!

    I've never come anywhere withing firing range of losing a reasoned argument about the prequels and I never will, because they are disgusting pieces of filmmaking. They fail on every single criteria that makes a movie worth making. Literally every single one. Take a look at all the apologist bullshit in this talkback already. This is the face of the prequel supporters. I don't hate the prequels because its cool, I hate them because they are horrible written, acted, and directed. And moreover they are a complete bastardization of everything that came before (sans the Christmas special, they are right on par with that). And I'll take anyone on in a straight debate about the content of the films and it'll be a total joke of a fight.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:51 a.m. CST

    World-building is NOT storytelling.

    by Stereotypical Evil Archer

    I wanted the prequels to be emotionally heavy and have some "golly gee" visuals. Instead we got too many "golly gee" visuals that pretty much meant nothing to the story. The few moments of emotion had more to do with the music than anything else. World-building is not storytelling. A good script requires a good writer not a visual artist. A good script requires a good director to become a good film.<p><p>I still have those "golly gee" moments with the prequels, but the only emotion is like a post-coital regret; wishing there was something more fulfilling from a promise that was never delivered or properly attempted.<p><p>I bet there's another good decade of prequel hating left in the public consciousness.<p><p>The prequels are what they are, but a re-imagining with emotional weight and emotional momentum would only make the original trilogy that much better. I'm willing to bet that George will let them be re-written, and re-made. He could only gain from such a project.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:54 a.m. CST

    Marksman

    by BadMrWonka

    you need to watch the YouTube videos embedded above. trust me, spend an hour and watch them.<p>I stood in line to see Phantom Menace opening day (I was 19, I think) and these videos have nailed it. it's not that there's nothing to like in the prequels, it's that empirically, logically, they make no sense. characters act with absolutely no motivation, the plot is needlessly convoluted, there's a wall of cartoonish nonsense in every frame. if you enjoy it, fine, but you were EIGHT YEARS OLD. the original trilogy appealed to EVERYONE, not just kids who like anything shiny and fast.<p>the prequels, especially The Phantom Menace, are so pathetically written, it's just depressing. <p>I'm not mad at George Lucas, I just feel sorry for him. he's forever going to be the guy that had a great, iconic series of films, and then completely flushed it down the toilet. <p>watch the YouTube videos above. see if, now that you're no longer 8, you can forgive the glaringly obvious, and inarguable lapses in logic and structure of TPM.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:54 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! I grok your mind music.

    by Stereotypical Evil Archer

  • March 14, 2010, 6:57 a.m. CST

    But really, there is nothing to like BadMrWonka

    by IndustryKiller!

    The Duel of the Fates. That scene is the ONLY 5 minutes of all the prequels worth watching. SO I guess it has ONE thing to like. And I would argue Revenge of the Sith is by FAR the worst written of the prequels. All those complaints about logic lapses and motivation are the most glaring and obvious in ROTS. I mean for fuck sake Lucas has to invent an 11th hour dream prophecy just to get Anakin tot he dark side, which he then completely ignores once the prophecy actually comes true....but that is Lucas' special brand of idiocy at play. Spot on though brother about being forever known as the guy who pissed his legacy away.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:57 a.m. CST

    funny review, but the voice is ripped off

    by SlimButNotreally

    He clearly ripped off the voice and personality of one of the Jerky Boys charaters (Kissel). Regardless, he makes very good points and it was very funny. watched the whole thing

  • March 14, 2010, 7 a.m. CST

    Every 70 minute review...

    by Bodenland Unbound

    ...deserves a negative review.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:13 a.m. CST

    Hilarious youtube videos

    by Tallyrand

    Thanks for posting those, laughed so fucking hard. Had to watch them all, on the hunt for more.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:21 a.m. CST

    ROTS is a great film!

    by umbral_shadow_

    I can understand the palpable hate for TPM and AOTC. But ROTS was (with reservations) are great movie. I would go as far as to say it was the best SF action/fantasy flick of the last decade. Obviously it doesn't hold a candle to any of the LOTR films, but LOTR weren't SF. I enjoyed ROTS much more than Avatar and I was know many people who think the same. So sue me.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:26 a.m. CST

    I like Jar Jar Binks

    by MC_DLyte

    Because he looks very much like my wife who is so beautiful to me www.residentevilgenius.com

  • March 14, 2010, 7:26 a.m. CST

    Nerds need to get over this Lucas obsession

    by PaulSC

    He's just a guy who made some dubious films. That's it. The way fanboys' inability to come to terms with their dislike of a few family movies has led to them elevating this man into almost mythical boogeyman figure to be loathed until the end of time is fucking laughably pathetic.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:27 a.m. CST

    Crying Tree Hugging Man Baby

    by Trannyformers_Apologist

    RedLetterMedia's Avatar review = massive butthurt Avatard backlash. <P>

  • March 14, 2010, 7:34 a.m. CST

    Quint, I think it is important for Star Wars fans

    by jimbojones123

    That just aren't geeky enough to have been coming to this site daily during the prequel days to read the Jedi Knight round tables, haven't seen the TPM review (or won't watch it for it's over the top sociopath stuff) and just educating the public that the <p>Star Wars franchise is not a golden goose. Parents who had Star Wars toys as kids, own the Prequel DVDs, and buy their kids Star Wars everything need to realize that the franchise is broken and that people do realize it. <p>Star Wars "lemmings" need to understand that the product they are feeding their kids is many levels below the quality from a previous generation. <p>I was watching ROTS with my six year old as order 66 was executed. She said she loved the Chewbaccas, but the moment Ani went into see the kids to slaughter them, we turned it off. That has NO PLACE in MY Star Wars.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:37 a.m. CST

    Lucas is a master at visual storytelling

    by SifoDyasJr.

    The problem is that he is terrible at character and dialogue. Almost every actor in the prequels is, or has potential to be, an Oscar caliber talent, yet they all come across as wooden and uninteresting. The one movie that excels at dialogue (Empire) is also the one that he had the least amount of involvement and control over. My biggest gripe with Lucas is the total disregard he had for great connecting elements he had set up in the original trilogy. How simple would it have been for Luke to have been born on Dagobah ("There's something familiar about this place…"), or Yoda had hiding Leia's existence from Obi Wan ("That boy is our last hope…") or countless other areas that he just got lazy and sloppy with his writing? But ultimately, turn the sound down on any one of these movies, and play the soundtrack on a CD player over it, and you have to admit, these are incredible looking films.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:41 a.m. CST

    I'm Typically A Positive Person

    by Crow3711

    I don't like hating and shitting on things typically unless they really are just dredful, awful crap. Like a Paul WS Anderson movie or something. But my goodness, I can't stand people defending the prequels. I think I may been a defender at one point in my life, when they first came out, and I was much younger and didn't fully understand what I was happening, but anyone who says "Cmon! They are fun movies and I enjoy watching them!!!" is an idiot. If you watch that 70 review and can still sit there and say TPM is a film that deserved to be made based on the script that was written...you don't understand a good movie. It's just a fact at this point. That little bit of deconstructionist history leaves absolutely no room for discussion in a way. It's so on-the-fucking-head parts of it almost hurt. It's like your inner fanboy wants to stand up and say hes wrong...but you just cant. It just isn't there. Resistance is futile. Lucas may be a revolutionary genius...but he made 3 just absolutely terrible movies.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:42 a.m. CST

    Thanks Darth_Tarantino.....

    by Righteous Brother

    I feel stupid. I'll give it a listen. I've got a bit of a like/hate relationship with the prequels.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:44 a.m. CST

    jimbojones123

    by PaulSC

    That is amazingly stupid. The public at large are going to go about their business liking what they like or disliking what they don't like. You honestly think some repulsive fanboy cunt making a documentary to 'educate' them about why their opinions are wrong is going to impact anything at all? The documentary is clearly nothing more than a giant monument to fanboy hubris.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:50 a.m. CST

    To those who consistently bash Star Wars...

    by alienindisguise

    or any movie for that matter, create your own worlds with the stories YOU want to see and make your won thing happen instead of wasting time and energy bitching about how much this movie or that movie sucks. Write a novel, make a comic book, We all have the means to make what we want to see happen in some form.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:54 a.m. CST

    Parts of Plinkett's reviews work, others do not

    by reflecto

    Funny guy but often, at least in his Trek reviews, he gets bogged down in nerd jargon and neuroses over actual story mechanics. For God's sake, the man thinks Insurrection is okay and First Contact is bad. He complains that the Enterprise sets were remodeled and re-lit for film even though Nick Meyer totally overhauled the look and feel of the Enterprise in Star Trek II and no one complained then. No one IRL cares about the scientific timeframe during which Malcolm McDowell launches a rocket at the sun and it blows up, they only care that is a dumb story in a cheap movie. He devoured the story issues of TPM well, but on other films he cheats on nerd points of order that do not make a difference to anyone and would in fact hurt films looking for cinematic relevance - not that any of the TNG Trek films had any, except for, mildly, First Contact.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:57 a.m. CST

    Paul SC

    by jimbojones123

    Parents don't know what they buy for their elementry age kids. Thy buy what shuts them up. How many of your kid toys were your parents interested in? If you didn't make a Christmas list, you would have gotten whatever was the first picture on the Target ad. The public thinks geeks are over the top in love with the prequels. This is not the truth. Any more unjustified vulgar insults you want to throw at me now, I sure hope they do make you feel GREAT inside.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:05 a.m. CST

    james cameron is the new george lucus

    by Potatino

    there... I went there!... but seriously. I agree with Quint this doco would have been more resonant 5 or more years ago. Most of us have moved on. Well I have anyway. I think geek hate has moved away from lucus onto other things. Why not a more releveant and up to date doco on geek hate? Interviewing geeks who have a seething hatred for guys who have ruined the watchmen by making that horrible new movie or all the guys who hate cameron. Or how about a doco intervieing geek reviewers on aintitcoolnews who hate the talkbackers for hating cameron or hating other things they think are cool or just hate the talkbackers bacause talkbackers can be mean. Now there's your updated doco on the current state of geek hate. Start with the talkbacks on here at any given time. Use that as you documented evidence of geek hate at that given time then move onwards and outwards...eh just an idea

  • March 14, 2010, 8:24 a.m. CST

    That Youtube review

    by Amazing Maurice

    Is fuh-king hilarious.<p>And so true.<p>Thanks for posting that, I've never seen it XD.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:38 a.m. CST

    I fucking hate Star Wars fans

    by ballyhoo

    I hate what they have become.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:42 a.m. CST

    Saw Episode II on T.V. last night

    by lochkray

    Not all of it, just enough to remind me that I liked that movie. I like all the prequels. They didn't "fail on every level" by a long-shot. They are (were - technologies continue to advance) spectacle of the highest level. They were fun. They fail in character and dialogue, but for-christ's-sake, listen to the dialogue in the first (1977) Star Wars. It was AWFUL. "I want to go to Tawshee station to pick up some power converters" and "I miss Ben" and "don't try to scare us with your socerors ways" - Wooden acting and tin dialogue. Nothing different than in the Prequels. The movies are spectalcle that pushed the technological envelope of special effects, always were. Anybody who's childhood was raped by those movies probably needed a good peodiatric asshole ripping anyway. Now, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull on the other hand....that sucked donkey balls. George and Steven can go up against the people for that one. At least a documentary on that would be somewhat more current.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:43 a.m. CST

    lucas irl is 5'7" but in the movie hes only 5'51/2"

    by alice133

    epic fail!!!!!!!

  • March 14, 2010, 8:43 a.m. CST

    this is blasphemy, you fucking pissants, hope you all die crippl

    by DioxholsterReturns

    how dare you speak that why about star wars as though you have a personal stake in it, its not yours you fucking pigs and how dare you question George Lucas's creativity and criticize him in this manner....the man came up with star wars from scratch. you lot came up with nothing, all you did was fornicate and breed insolent creatures to add to the world's woes all while immorally forcing pleasure out of your minds. you pple disgust me. and this movie represents the type of society that exists now sadly. I believe a review of this doc movie should be removed as the film itself is not legitimate in any way and only serves to sensationalize.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:47 a.m. CST

    Cameron is no where near Lucas

    by TheMandrakeRoot

    If any of the prequels had been even a 1/4 as good as Avatar they might be films worth revisiting. Sure Avatar as a story is much simpler then what the prequels attempted, but Cameron knew that. He also knew that he was attempting a film that was basically visual overload, and to get mixed up in complicated plots or ridiculous sub-plots that go nowhere would be a serious detriment to many filmgoers experience. People tend to forget that the SW I, II, and III, were largely intended for children, the way Avatar was largely intended for young children. However Lucas bogged his film down with so many plot details that made little sense and went nowhere, diminishing much enjoyment from those films. At least Cameron knew that with a budget of 300 million dollars, you HAVE to appeal to children. And he did, and much of Avatars insane box office gross was kids who thought it was the greatest film they've ever seen...just like kids who saw the original SW trilogy. It was a classic tale of good vs bad, some awesome sci-fi ideas, and mind-blowing visuals. There was a CLEAR hero that was easy to root for, something lacking in the prequels. Perhaps not as iconic as A NEW HOPE, but really not far off in terms of originality, acting, dialogue, and visuals/ visual influence. Plus there are just so many amazing scenes in Avatar, and the story was largely told through visual - basically Jaking exploring his new life as a Na'vi on Pandora. Star Wars story was never propelled visually like that, it's visuals were just pretty as a way to forget that the story made NO fucking sense.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:49 a.m. CST

    E-Mail me if you want a PIZZA ROLL!

    by lotharius3rd1118

    PIZZA ROLL...PIZZA ROLL...PIZZA ROLL...Who's been fuckin' with my medicine? PIZZA ROLL! The review is a slice of fried gold.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:50 a.m. CST

    And yes

    by TheMandrakeRoot

    that youtube review is hilarious, although at 70 minutes I can't really be fucked to watch it again. Although I've been waiting for the episode II review for ages. That should be fun.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:52 a.m. CST

    And, on a personal note...

    by lotharius3rd1118

    I still love the prequels. Um...no love is too strong. I truly dislike AotC but I still really enjoy TPM and thought RotS was bliss. I just don't feel the need to attack them for their shortcomings, but celebrate them as the experience. Summer of '99 is still one of my favorite summers in history. Too much good vibes coursing through that period of my life to not look back on it favorably.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:55 a.m. CST

    Why George Lucas bashing matters...

    by BurnHollywood

    Because it's a warning to all other would-be "geniuses" that they ignore the opinions and feelings of their audience at their own peril. Like it or not, any successful artist is in collaboration with their enthusiasts, or they wouldn't even have that success in the first place.<p> In Lucas's case, it wasn't enough to clearly minimize input into the Prequels' direction so he was effectively in his own creative bubble...he even turned around and started changing the originals that made him such a star in the first place, then jealously blocked access to the unaltered versions.<p> The result is a lingering resentment by his movie's fans, and a notorious object-lesson in how NOT to capitalize on a genre's success. Just the very mention of Ewoks, Jar Jar Binks or Greedo shooting first is enough to get eyes rolling and groans started. I don't think this documentary is saying anything new, but I certainly understand where it's coming from...

  • March 14, 2010, 9:06 a.m. CST

    I like Ewoks.

    by lotharius3rd1118

    The first time I cried in a movie was seeing the two Ewoks run from an AT-ST and one of them gets blown away to a baby scream. The other one mourns. That saddened my little mind.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:09 a.m. CST

    AotC = Lost in Space (the movie) + Love Story = Fail

    by WickedJacob

  • March 14, 2010, 9:19 a.m. CST

    Diox -- love the sarcasm

    by jimbojones123

    Almost had me for a minute.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:24 a.m. CST

    Yep.. Sums it up nicely.

    by screamster101

    I was in denial for about a year after watching Phantom Menace. Couldn't figure out if what I had seen was good or fuckin horrible. I chose the path of fuckin horrible. Now, a TV series in the works? ... LMAO.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:25 a.m. CST

    Trannyformers_Apologist

    by The_Crimson_King

    how come every post you make never relates to the story and you wind up making no sense whatsoever?, seriously what the fuck are you talking about? you sir, are an idiot

  • March 14, 2010, 9:25 a.m. CST

    Fuck you Rick Berman!

    by lotharius3rd1118

    Wait...that's not Rick Berman. What is it with Ricks?

  • March 14, 2010, 9:27 a.m. CST

    The Prequels were a money grab

    by umbral_shadow_

    for Lucas. Plain and simple. PM and AOTC targetted kids and made a shitload of money. ROTS was dark and more adult and made less money. Lucas has always been a business man every bit as much as a film maker. He financed the prequels himself and he knew that if he pandered only to the hard core SW fans those films would have topped out at around $600m each globally. He went for th money grab and made an extra $200 - $300m. What Lucas did is no different to James Cameron planning to re-release Avatar in fall after just nine fricking months after it's initial release. It's all about the money grab, folks.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:29 a.m. CST

    seriously, am I the only who's noticed this

    by The_Crimson_King

    Trannyformers_Apologist asshole?

  • March 14, 2010, 9:29 a.m. CST

    *one

    by The_Crimson_King

  • March 14, 2010, 9:31 a.m. CST

    The hate for the prequels

    by bee152

    The reason why there is so much hate for the prequels is NOT because they couldn't live up to people's false expectations. It's because they are not that great of movies. The acting was horrible (except for Ewan), the story was paced poorly, the dialogue was hollow, the screenplay was riddled with plot holes and overwritten, and the directing felt nonexistent. If TPM was a new filmmaker making a new movie (not a Star Wars movie) it would have been panned and the next 2 parts would never have been made. Hell they might be the reason why we keep ending up with mass produced crappy blockbusters that make hundreds of millions of dollars, like FF or FF2 RotSS or X3 or SpiderMan3 and all the no names I can't think of. If studios know they can make the same amount of money on sub par shit why waste the time to give them something good. The point is, that is about good filmmaking and as an audience we should demand it. We should hold their feet to the fire.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:34 a.m. CST

    Wow, where to start....?

    by gooseud

    1. To turn off the prequels when Anakin comes to kill the younglings because that isnt "YOUR" Star Wars...WTF? What movies have you been watching? The ones where Obi-Wan is cut down right on camera? The ones where Vader chokes out multiple people and slices Luke's hand off, right on camera? The ones where Han blasts Greedo point blank for talking shit, or where Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru's scorched corpses are displayed, or where Han is violently tortured? The movies have always been violent death-fests, thats what makes them great, because it puts it right there on screen: the stakes couldnt be higher in these films, and yes, people can die. 2. The failures of the prequels fall 100% on the shoulders of Lucas. Dont believe me? Go read the novelization of ROTS. Its utterly fantastic. If they had made THAT movie, it would have gone down as one of the great sci-fi epics ever. It explains everything you would want to know, the section with Count Dooku and his thought process during the Anakin battle alone is worth the price of admission. Its simply that Lucas lacks the ability or motivation to bring the story to life on screen in a coherent, fully realized manner, plain and simple.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:34 a.m. CST

    7 Disk Blu-Ray set please George

    by MattInTheHat

    Thanks. And call New Line (or whoever it is now) and tell them the theatrical LOTR releases are a waste of time. Get on with the extended versions.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:36 a.m. CST

    gooseud: Yes, WTF? Ani goes "dark"...

    by MattInTheHat

    But he's not allowed to kill anyone unless they are 18 maybe? That prveious post made me laugh.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:38 a.m. CST

    Blu-Ray set of Indiana Jones too please

    by The_Crimson_King

    I haven't seen any of the first 3 movies since early 2004

  • March 14, 2010, 9:40 a.m. CST

    Do all of you realize...

    by crashcow

    ...that the rest of the world who don't live vicariously through Jedi Knights are LAUGHING at how easily your world is destroyed and your childhood raped? IT'S TIME TO GET OFF THE INTERNET, GET JOBS THAT DON'T INVOLVE YOUR UNWARRENTED OPINION AND CONTRIBUTE! The rest of us on the planet are kinda getting tired of making excuses for you. They're movies. That's all. Movies. Wax philisophical all you want; talk about how they changed your life if you must, but, at some point,

  • March 14, 2010, 9:40 a.m. CST

    Oh, and people distrust Lucas

    by gooseud

    Becuase every decision he has made, every tinker, has been wrong. Therefore, it begins to shine a light on past accomplishments retroactively. Everyone has always known (and kinda shrugged) about the fact that Empire featured the least involvement from Lucas, and was coincidently the best of the series (and the best sci fi action movie ever made by a mile). However, as time goes on, and pretty much everything regarding Star Wars that DOESNT involve Lucas continues to kick ass (the original Clone War cartoons, the novelizations) and everything in which he is involved continues to feature absolutely epic bad decision making (too many to count), that Empire situations looms larger.....and larger.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:41 a.m. CST

    GO LIVE YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by crashcow

  • March 14, 2010, 9:42 a.m. CST

    bee152

    by lotharius3rd1118

    I don't think that mass produced blockbusters that end up being shitty can logically be attributed to Lucas and the prequels. I'm not arguing your dislike of the prequels, mind you, but am simply pointing out your specious argument that Lucas' failure with the "Star Wars" movies were a direct influence on the wealth of shitty, big-budget no-brainers that we are inundated with today. Those types of films have always had their place in Hollywood. Just look at de Mille's "Greatest Show on Earth."

  • March 14, 2010, 9:42 a.m. CST

    George, do you have any Blu-Rays?

    by MattInTheHat

    Cannot believe this dude and his releases. Ages for DVD. Then we get 2 seperate sets. No Blu- Rays at all... blah blah blah. Anyway, the the point of this whinge is that I stopped buying Star Wars media a ways back, now the only thing I will buy is a full Blu-Ray set. I could be waiting for some time.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:43 a.m. CST

    GREATEST REVIEW EVER. (Youtube)

    by V'Shael

    That is just brilliant. The face on Rick McCallum when they see the first cut, is fucking awesome. <p> And when he says they get the girl in the end, Charlie is hugging Willy Wonka. Fucking hilarious.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:44 a.m. CST

    Ha!

    by crashcow

    My little one hit the keyboard while I was typing and before I could add the last sentence. Y'know...cuz I've had sex with a woman and turn off the Computer and TV sometimes to be with her outside of a movie theater.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:48 a.m. CST

    Also, branch the Blu-Rays

    by MattInTheHat

    So we get the originals and special editions on the same disk. Easy. Everyone is happy as they can watch whatever flavour they like, or switch between scenes as is their want. You make millions. Yeesh, ok anough about the non-existent blu-rays already.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Best line of the review:

    by lotharius3rd1118

    "Explain the logic to me of why the two most sensible guys stay behind on the ship while a clumsy alien, a useless robot, a young fragile woman, and a drunk go wandering through a big city." The jokes about Qui-Gon's drinking habits had me rolling on the floor.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:51 a.m. CST

    crashcow

    by argos_and_the_laminated_book_of_dreams

    by little one do you mean your penis? And by sex with a woman, do you mean that Lara Croft cutout you keep in the closest? Inquiring minds wanna know...

  • March 14, 2010, 9:51 a.m. CST

    His Insurrection review was also spot-on.

    by lotharius3rd1118

  • March 14, 2010, 9:55 a.m. CST

    This site always hates on Lucas

    by Gateway5

    This site has and always seems to hate on Lucas and Star Wars. Why do you even cover anything Star Wars?

  • March 14, 2010, 9:56 a.m. CST

    I could pick apart

    by jameskpolk

    The logic of many many of the movies people revere.<br><br> I used to identify the plot holes in Star Trek TNG episodes and ruin them for my little brother. It didn't make them no fun to watch. <br><br> And to those people who hate the ewoks and Jar Jar Binks, why not also hate R2D2, Yoda, and other "kiddie" elements that date back to '77?

  • March 14, 2010, 9:56 a.m. CST

    The fact that Lucas

    by Juggernaut125

    spent more time on an inconsequential pod-race than he did on Anakin's actual turn to the dark side tells you how awful RotS honestly is.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:01 a.m. CST

    slaughtering chldren

    by jameskpolk

    was in Anakin's nature. Did anybody have a complaint with him whacking a whole village of Sandpeople? The one event foreshadowed the other. The whole point of introducing us to the younglings was a set up to Anakin's crime against his own tribe.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:04 a.m. CST

    Grow up, move on, or keep hating

    by TheJudger

    Everyone praises Weta and Pixar for picking up the ball. <P> Lucas invented that ball. The man wanted to race cars until he wrecked. He became interested in the moving picture, and then Star Wars gave gave him a panic attack put him in the hospital. <P> That's why he didn't come back to direct Empire. <P> All the money that came in from the merchandise deals and the successes of those space opera films gave him free reign to tinker with the engine of motion pictures. He reworked everything, and literally reinvented the damn ball that everyone plays with to make films today. Be it digital cameras, the digital projectors, cgi, all those pre-cgi era achievements in sound and picture editing, early and final cg rotoscope advancements, digital editing and printing systems, blue screen tracking systems, pre programable motion tracking camera systems. Man it all came from him and his divisions. He treated film like he wanted to treat cars, and we and film and the artist who make them are all the better for it. He is more than those space opera films. All these bitter full grown children can keep hatin. I wish he did rape your childhood, some of you assholes deserve it.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:05 a.m. CST

    I meant what i said, i never kid

    by DioxholsterReturns

    star wars is very dear to my heart, and George Lucas is the man behind it.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:06 a.m. CST

    Mr. Plinkett's Review Is ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT

    by LaserPants

    Agree with it 100%. It more or less echoes everything I've been saying since Lucas decided to ruin one of the greatest movie series of all time.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:08 a.m. CST

    The solution is simple

    by Darth Busey

    George Lucas should sell his interest in the "Star Wars" name as he did "Pixar". Then, he will still have billions of dollars, but be free of the burden of dealing with Star Wars, and can do whatever fucking films he wants.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:09 a.m. CST

    Uh, Juggernaut?

    by lotharius3rd1118

    The pod race and Anakin's fall were in two separate movies. You might as well argue that Die Hard With a Vengeance sucks balls because they wasted all that time in the skyscraper in Die Hard when all that was important was McClane killing Hans Gruber.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:09 a.m. CST

    TheJudger---- exactly, Lucas changed everything

    by DioxholsterReturns

    the guy is a genius, he is to Hollywood movies as Einstein is to physics.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:14 a.m. CST

    DioxholsterReturns

    by lotharius3rd1118

    Dude, simmer down a little bit. Star Wars is important to you, it was important to most of us, and that's great. But learn to not try and randomly lash out at the rest of the world that doesn't get your obsession. BTW, the first step to actually loving something is acknowledging its faults and loving it anyway.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:15 a.m. CST

    The prequels were unanimously shit.

    by alan_poon

    He fucked over the people like me who sat and gazed in wonder at the screen in 77. Lucas basically stuck two fingers up at the people who helped him get those godawful prequels made in the first place. THAT'S what hurts the most.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:18 a.m. CST

    It is pretty amazing

    by lotharius3rd1118

    what all came as a result of Lucas' little space movie.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:19 a.m. CST

    How is it ruined? The people who hate the pt

    by TheJudger

    never wanted it to begin with. They only thought they wanted it. <P> 20 fucking years of playing with action figs, EU, role playing, and repeat viewing of the originals set up too many "If I made it" ideas and expectations into the fucking heads of the fans. <P> These people couldn't deal with or accept the creators vision. Like meeting an old girlfriend at a High School Reunion and expecting the Chick to be the same girl you she used to be 10-15 years ago. <P> People change. While you were still rewatching the original films. Lucas was busy changing film. When he came back. He didn't have that 20+ year of re watching shit he made dictating his creative choices for the new films. I'm pretty sure he doesn't watch his films like the fans do. Just like most seasoned actors don't watch the films they act in. <P> Ruined.... Goddamn, the originals are still there in LD quality on DVD. Get over it. Lucas doesn't owe you shit!

  • March 14, 2010, 10:20 a.m. CST

    Plinkett review is money

    by PornKing

    They should have just played THAT at sxsw. Hilarious and true. I hope he puts that much effort into the next review, because I'm sure that took a long ass time to make w/all those clips.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:26 a.m. CST

    Right on, Judger. Right on.

    by lotharius3rd1118

    Lucas did things his way. That's done now. If someone doesn't like it then they should do it their way. Like BioWare did with the Knights of the Old Republic video game or some of the novels that gleefully mix genres and styles. RedLetterMedia's review is still golden though.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:26 a.m. CST

    Has George seen this :)

    by drunkenmonkey73

  • March 14, 2010, 10:33 a.m. CST

    PM would still suck without jar jar

    by Powerring

    Bad acting, bad script...bad movie. I just described all 3 prequels.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:36 a.m. CST

    That 70 minute review is SO GOOD I'm finished

    by The Reluctant Austinite

    talking about the prequels. Almost everything I ever wanted to express regarding the prequels is expressed in that review, and it's done in an entertaining and humorous way. I'm done. I've wasted far too much time, brain power and just air complaining about the prequels and the people that like them aren't going budge in their blind love of whatever Star Wars iconography they can hold onto for dear life.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Yeah, that statement by Coppola...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ..."Coppola states that the Star Wars franchise might be worth billions of dollars, but the whole value of that franchise is one tenth the value of the filmmaker that George Lucas was and has denied us two decades of Lucas pursuing other interests because he has to control the juggernaut that is his little space adventure."<P>...is probably the most pertinent take on all-things-Lucas. I've said this before and still think it holds true, STAR WARS is the albatross around George Lucas' neck. Although the man has been involved with a number of films, he has only directed a handful. And I would be shocked (SHOCKED, I tell ya) if he ever wrote/directed anything of remote interest, along the lines of THX1138 or AMERICAN GRAFFITI ever again.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:38 a.m. CST

    Bongo123

    by Bootskin

    Before you condemn all the "nerds" to death, you may want to ask some of them for some grammar and punctuation advice.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:39 a.m. CST

    George Lucas in Love

    by lotharius3rd1118

    Does anybody remember what happened to this movie. It was supposed to be a Star Wars parody of Shakespeare in Love. It sounded brilliant when I heard about it, but I've never been able to find it.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:40 a.m. CST

    AICN does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    AICN's opinion on THE PHANTOM MENACE from back when it was released...<p> "I think it's better than JEDI, but it's not A NEW HOPE" Moriarty<p> "Mesa Luved Him!" Harry on Jar Jar<p> "I’m so utterly love smitten. I was afraid tonight. Instead, I saw a really wonderful adventure. A fairy tale that told of a galaxy far far away. I guess I’m still a kid, because when I came home this morning... I didn’t update, I didn’t even go online. I just played with my toys. Holding them, and trying to figure out what their place in things were." Harry<p> Quint, I can't see your old love letter to TPM back in the archives - you been in there and deleted it mate?

  • March 14, 2010, 10:40 a.m. CST

    The Plinkett Review isn't just wrong, it's INACCURATE!

    by Sith Witch

    Seriously, not more than a few minutes in I had to cry "foul" at several things that are the result of simply not seeing what's onscreen. As for Quint referencing the "Jedi Knights" phrase, that's simply an example of using shorthand to get a concept across in a few words. <p> Do nitpickers REALLY want the opening crawl to include, "...sent one Jedi Knight and his apprenticing understudy Jedi" to the crawl?!

  • March 14, 2010, 10:42 a.m. CST

    Does no one else get annoyed with the faux retard voice?

    by Spikey

    Does no one else get annoyed with the faux retard voice? I couldnt watch all of the guys review because it felt like walking home with an old shuffling grandad where you just want to walk way ahead or pick him up and carry him in a quarter of the time. Is there a transcript of the review anywhere or maybe a subtitled version to fast forward thru?

  • March 14, 2010, 10:44 a.m. CST

    RE: "Lucas changed everything"

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But when did that become an excuse for delivering three poorly written, woefully acted, childish excuses for CGI overload?

  • March 14, 2010, 10:45 a.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    Sith Witch, obviously the guy 'exaggerates' a few things for comedic effect but I didn't spot anything in there that was factually inaccurate. What specifically was inaccurate?

  • March 14, 2010, 10:50 a.m. CST

    Well.....

    by evilhoban

    The prequels haven't even aged well. I re-watched them last night with my son on Spike....the effects look terrible. I don't see why some fans are so insistent on defending these movies. Everyone has an opinion, but the quality of the writing and characters are obviously not up to the originals. That's the main argument, right? Where's a character even close to as cool as Han Solo? That's not to say people shouldn't like the prequels at all. I choose not to, but I can see their appeal to others, I guess. It's not like anyone is saying everything Lucas has done should be disregarded because he failed to live up to the original trilogy... and Indiana Jones. I just don't agree that everything he has ever done should be blindly defended because of his past work. I am a huge Sam Raimi fan, and it hurt my soul a bit to admit Spider-Man 3 sucked total ass....but it did. By the way...I love it when people on the talkbacks tell everyone else on here to get a life for whatever reason. Hey dude....YOU ARE ON AN AINT IT COOL TALKBACK! If you have such an awesome life, by your own standards you wouldn't even have been on this site, read the talkbacks or posted anything...so sit down and shut the fuck up. Let us be.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:50 a.m. CST

    I'm still laughing about

    by lotharius3rd1118

    the sequence where he says he kidnapped a bunch of cheerleaders and forced them to watch TPM. Their conclusion: "If I let them go, they wouldn't tell anyone." That review fucking funny. Love the voice too. Kinda like Buffalo Bill doing Critic's Corner.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:52 a.m. CST

    re: George Lucas in Love

    by JAMF

    google it. seriously.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:54 a.m. CST

    Loved all 70 minutes of that

    by Lane_myers111

    A brilliant disection of a truly awful movie..and very funny in parts.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:55 a.m. CST

    Love the Plinkett review

    by Gozu

    That should shown in a fucking graduate level screenwriting class. Also love the reaction of fanboys who can't bear the sight of the Emperor's new clothes (especially a decade after the fact). As for James Cameron being the new George Lucas, yes, James Cameron too favors technology over humanity and is more than happy to sacrifice storytelling or coherence for the sake of shit that supposedly looks cool (I mean, really, it's just a bunch of giant blue elves riding flying snakes and running away from Battletech robots and Aliens-style drop ships and pretty much all flora and fauna looks like a diseased vagina).

  • March 14, 2010, 10:57 a.m. CST

    The prequels haven't aged nearly as well

    by SithMenace

    in 10 years as the OT has in 30+. I still pop in the OT three or four times a year, but the prequels have not seen my dvd player in years. I caught ROTS on Spike a few months ago, and I literally turned it off because it's so unwatchably bad. It's hard to believe it's the same director as Star Wars.<p>And Plinkett's reviews are great. If you like the TPM review, check out the Star Trek reviews, it exposes everything that was wrong with Berman's pale imitations of the much better (for the most part) TOS films.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:58 a.m. CST

    Somebody made a documentary to whine about the prequels?

    by rev_skarekroe

    There are real problems in the world and people devote so much time and energy into crying over a perceived slight on their precious childhood memories. Somebody should make a documentary about the mental problems of obsessive fanboys.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:59 a.m. CST

    The opening argument...

    by Lane_myers111

    about the complete lack of a main central character or even any character you can remotely route for is 100% spot on..although im sure you could come up with some way of describing the characters without references their clothes,physical appearance or jobs. But they are still terrible characters. The one thing i would have liked him to lok at was Darth Maul's role in the movie (or lack off screen time). He was a completely underused character and had great potential IMO.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:02 a.m. CST

    I got my adulthood raped

    by InActionMan

    Not by Lucas. I watched "Velvet Goldmine" last night. When Batman and Obi-Wan Kenobi started making out I think I cried a little.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:02 a.m. CST

    Red letter media

    by DK1138

    Thankyou Quint for introducing those to haven't seen it to the brilliant reviews. (though he could cut back on the psycho killer stuff a bit in my opinion!) I have to disagree however when you say they aren't fanboy reviews. As I think is evident in both the Phantom Menace and the Star Trek reviews he has done, he has a love and understanding of these films and has clearly seen every episode of Star Trek TNG. He is just more eloquent in stating his much thought about points. He was also able to make his case without resorting to Jar Jar bashing every chance he got, though Jar Jar did get the talking down he deserved....

  • March 14, 2010, 11:03 a.m. CST

    The makers of this documentary are collosal chumps

    by Star Hump

    It's difficult to believe the depths Star Wars fans will lower themselves to. So, there is some group of SW-obsessed assholes out there who ARE STILL NOT OVER the prequels and were so motivated by their pathetic angst that they made a documentary just so they could vent their spleens on this ridiculous subject.<p> THEN they took the time to shop this piece of shit around and get it entered into SXSW! And SXSW accepted the fucking thing! Are you kidding me? Who are these emotionally retarded assholes? They represent everything that is wrong with fans of fantasy and sci-fi stuff. How can they look themselves in their faces each morning. "I made a documentary about how much the Star Wars prequels sucked."<p> WOW. I'm flabbergasted. This kind of shit ACTUALLY EXISTS. PEOPLE ARE STILL OBSESSING ABOUT GEORGE LUCAS AND ANAKIN SKYWALKER. It boggles the mind.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:03 a.m. CST

    Some of these guys...

    by Bootskin

    I can't believe these people who have such great, fulfilling lives really take the time out of screwing their beautiful super-model wives, directing their blockbuster motion pictures, developing their mega-selling video games and driving their million dollar sports cars to stop by this "nerd" site and render their opinions. We must have a bigger presence on these "non-nerd" people's radar than we thought. Go us. Look, I hate to break it to you, but if you like Star Wars (or anything else really) enough to post your opinion on a site like this; the rest of the world thinks you're one of us. Now kindly go fuck yourself.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:04 a.m. CST

    Thanks, JAMF

    by lotharius3rd1118

    Just watched it. I didn't realize that it was a short. Pretty fucking awesome though. Great punchline in the end.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:07 a.m. CST

    rev skarekroe, you beat me to it

    by Star Hump

    I stopped reading the TB to vent MY spleen about this, for Christ's sake. Ridiculous.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Plinkett's Trek reviews are great.

    by lotharius3rd1118

    But I gotta disagree with everyone talking about how the prequels don't hold up. In some aspects, I agree. But I think the visuals in TPM are still pretty stunning to look at, minus a few moments of pure cheese. Honestly, I can't help but defend RotS, I thought it was a terrific movie. Sure there are plot holes galore and it followed the completely unsuccessful trend of the prequels to replace every interesting villain with a less interesting one. But hey, it was still fun. Oh, and fuck Rick Berman.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:09 a.m. CST

    Star Wars is crap

    by SmokingRobot

    I was a rabid fan right up until episode 1. By episode 3 I am SO OVER Star Wars. No more comics, no more books, no more shitty games. It's all crap. Thanks, George, you've done a great job of running your legacy into the ground.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:09 a.m. CST

    RighteousBrother

    by Darth_Tarantino

    The Plinkett review is good fun. He goes out of his way to complain about idiotic little things and it's very entertaining. As for my own relationship with the prequels, I don't like TPM, I enjoy AOTC despite its faults and I love ROTS. That last one is a great film and has, hands down, the best John Williams score of any of the Star Wars movies.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:16 a.m. CST

    The Duel of Fates is a great piece of music

    by lotharius3rd1118

    by Williams. I listen to it when I want to drive very fast. However, Williams had a great ethereal tone going through his RotS score. On the flip side, I find almost nothing to like about AotC except that its number completes my Star Wars DVD collection.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:19 a.m. CST

    Lucas Directed ANH- had a panic attack

    by TheJudger

    wound up in the hospital and that sealed it for him. He didn't direct ESB or Jedi. He waited 20 fucking years to get back into that chair. Film making is not like riding a bike, and it shows. The man wanted total fucking control. Let's put it into perspective for you guys. Ever play a video game and known deep down inside that you could have made a better control scheme, and better gameplay. That is what Lucas was struggling with. He envisioned all of these new tools that didn't exist that would simplify and expand the range of film making and empower the film maker. He didn't want to do this again with out them realized. The other thing he wanted- the very thing that gave him his panic attack- was to completely rid himself of outside funding, influence, dealines, and control- there are very few directors who get to have that. So basically he had to build his own total movie making studio- Him and copola always had that plan. And he did it! People keep talking shit about his money empire. Nearly all of it goes right back into the innovations to improve film. I fucking hate you hating pricks. He's given film and film makers an immeasurable amount of wealth and power. There would be no Weta, Pixar, CGI Cinema, Abyss/T2 Cameron JP/Indiana Spielberg and more without Lucas's contributions to cinema.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:21 a.m. CST

    The Original Trilogy was only good for one reason:

    by Pants_McCracky

    Harrison Ford as Han Solo. If you imagine Star Wars or Empire without Ford, what you have left is surprisingly similar to the Prequels: stilted, awkward performances of cheesy dialogue, ho-hum plot, and lots...and lots...of shots of spaceships taking off and landing. I suspect that when people talk about the awesomeness of the original movies, what they're thinking of is mostly scenes with Han Solo -- where he shoots Greedo (first!), his cynical wisecracking, the funny banter with Leia.<br><br>That's what the prequels were really lacking -- a Solo type character who's sort of detached from the action and acts as the viewer's perspective, commenting wryly on the super-serious goings on.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:22 a.m. CST

    TheJudger

    by MrPoop

    He had chest pains and high blood pressure. I don't blame him at all for not wanting to direct ESB and ROTJ after the toll ANH took on him. He also said the film community made it very hard on him to get the two sequels done after Star Wars because they didn't like they kept them from getting a piece of the action by funding them himself.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:22 a.m. CST

    I'm still amazed people don't get the Plinkett review

    by 11ZOMBIES

    All you people who continue to bash the prequels: His review is making fun of you. It's really silly that people consider it a real review. I've seen praise for it all over the web, but it is consistently from the prequel haters. I praise it because he's finally showing just how pointless all the bashing has been ever since '99.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:29 a.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    11ZOMBIES, huh - what basis do you have for declaring that Plinkett stuff to contain any mysterious role reversal subtext??? So Plinkett's actually saying TPM is great and 'the haters' as you call em are fools?? Pls explain what in the Plinkett video led you to that conclusion.<p> And it's not actually a 'review' persay, it's more of a comedic deconstruction. But like most comedy it's funny because it's true.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:29 a.m. CST

    clone wars is finding it stride

    by skiff

    And yes there is some amazing music in the prequels john really stepped up to the plate.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:33 a.m. CST

    Exactly 11Zombie

    by TheJudger

    The basement shit is a riot. And the mail in thing for a pizza roll. I squeeze my gat till my clipz is spent.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:36 a.m. CST

    @Cobra--Kai

    by 11ZOMBIES

    No, it's actually funny because he's showing how silly all the haters are, nitpicking plot points that can be explained with perhaps two seconds of thought, not to mention all the girls locked in the basement jokes. This 70 minute "review" is the best love letter to TPM I've ever seen, I mean seriously, who does a 70 minute video review of something they hate? That just makes no sense. His videos are brilliant because they finally call out the haters for the knuckle dragging mouth breathers they are. Really folks, all of the "points" he makes in his videos can be easily explained by doing something simple- actually thinking about the film.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:42 a.m. CST

    No plinketts saying the movie sucks and

    by TheJudger

    so do the losers that waste their basement dwelling ass time getting muffed up over it. The voice is them. The lifestyle is them. The retarded trying to be puesdo intellectual talk is them, and I'm pretty sure the basement shit is a direct sunk the battleship play on them as well. There is no side taken here. The first film in the PT was pretty uneven and one hell of a mess, and the fans it still hurts 10 years later are fucking wackoffs. It's a movie!!!! Wont cure cancer, wont get you laid, wont give you a raise or promotion at work, pay your bills, or revirginilize your asshole.<P> No it's just a movie. Get over it.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:48 a.m. CST

    Can we admit the prequels are shit...

    by ebonic_plague

    ...without lapsing into fanboy PTSD and tears? Has it already been done in this TB? At least attempted? Because I have tried to be magnanimous with my opinion of the prequels, but they are just average-to-shitty movies, and have lessened my appreciation (not erased, but diminished) for the overall Star Wars universe. Which isn't as headline grabbing as "raped my childhood," but it's honestly how I feel. And now I'm done thinking about it until the next Lucas TB.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:51 a.m. CST

    Cameron is better than George because

    by Disrobed

    he has a fuller, broader, bigger body of work!

  • March 14, 2010, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Cameron is better than George because

    by BumLove

    his penis is longer, fatter, and harder.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Loserguy3000

    by SithMenace

    So what you're saying is we should get on with our lives, get lives, move on and grow up twice? That's about as well written as the prequels.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:57 a.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    loserguy, methinks you be the one that is 'upset and angry'. Calm down dear, as you say it's only a movie.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Wow, there really is no middle ground here.

    by lotharius3rd1118

    The manic defenders and the psychotic haters suffer from the same neuroses that make this argument about the prequels so terribly pointless. I personally liked the prequels, warts and all, but to be so fervent in one direction or another about anything is pretty crazy.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Plinkett's other reviews....

    by TheHumanBurrito

    ....funny how no one seems to want to touch his Avatar review which is almost equally as scathing-"For all the money and time spent to make this movie in 3d, it's characters and story are stuck in one dimension." Or his eviscerating of the completely awful in every way Trek:Next Gen movies.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:13 p.m. CST

    'Cause his "Avatar" review is kinda lame.

    by lotharius3rd1118

    Not saying that movie is beyond critical reproach, but that review lacked his earlier reviews penchant for rampant observation or comedic flare. Although the shot about the rednecks at the briefing was pretty funny. His TNG movie reviews are awesome though. I always had a problem with the idea of the cloaked holoship in Insurrection and how it was put in a lake so no one would see it. IT'S CLOAKED!

  • March 14, 2010, 12:14 p.m. CST

    Just read the clone wars trades

    by YoyodynePropulsionSystems

    Nothing can change the original reception of the new trilogy. Read the trades of the clone wars. It makes them twice as watchable. During the shitty parts, you can just use your imagination to try and figure out what Quinlan Vos is doing at that point in time.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:20 p.m. CST

    When Lynch Met Lucas

    by slummingangel

    David Lynch knows what it's like to meet George Lucas: http://vimeo.com/9773538

  • March 14, 2010, 12:21 p.m. CST

    lotharius

    by SithMenace

    I'm on middle ground with the prequels. I don't despise them, but I don't have an urge to watch them again. For me they're just meh. I think the biggest problem I have with the prequels is that I don't care about any of the characters like I do in the OT. And when I don't care about the characters, it becomes a domino effect, because then I don't care about what happens to them, so the story has less weight, the visuals become pointless and monotonous, etc. etc. <p>I guess what it comes down to is that for me, story and characters are what get me excited about a film, and the prequels were lacking in both. Probably the same reason I didn't like Avatar that much, I didn't like the characters and the story was just felt like a better movie was buried under a cartoon.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Trashing the prequels a waste of time?

    by Nerd Rage

    Then so is attacking fanboys and defending the prequels. It takes the same amount of time to log on, type a nifty rant, then press enter. The same exact amount of time. So shut the fuck up about the whole 10 minutes I waste by trashing the prequels every 4 months when there's a Star Wars prequel thread. If taking minutes from your day to bash Lucas is a waste of time then so is taking minutes from your day to attack prequel haters. You can't have it both ways, hypocrites.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:25 p.m. CST

    creator’s artistic rights vs. the audience’s right to the art.

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Aside from the use of the word "right(s)", that is an interesting argument.<p>Though I gotta say, I wish people would quit saying midichlorians de-spiritualize the force. I disagree, however dopey midichlorians may be.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Perhaps Not *Ruined*, But Most Definitely *Sullied*

    by LaserPants

    Profoundly sullied.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Are you kidding me?

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    "As someone who was there in the cinema in '77, and again in '99, the two experiences couldn't have been more different."<p>LOL, gee I wonder why, besides seeing two different movies. Oh maybe being 22 years older may have factored in A LITTLE.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:29 p.m. CST

    11ZOMBIES, you are totally clueless

    by one9deuce

    He trashes Episode 1 because he thinks it's a shitty movie. Period. He reviews lots of movies. Try to pay attention.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:31 p.m. CST

    But Avatar is a good film?

    by TheLastCleric

    Whatever flaws the prequels may contain, all three films when taken as either a whole or individually are better than Avatar. The great thing about Avatar is that it exposed the glaring and obvious hypocrisy of those who claimed Lucas was all about effects and eye candy and then proceeded to masturbate to Avatar, perhaps the most vapid studio film released last year. Every flaw you can levy against the prequels also exists in Avatar and in most cases in much larger quantities. Bad story? Check. Horrible dialogue? Check. Cliché, soulless characters? Check. Oh, and the alien designs in the prequels are vastly superior to anything seen in Avatar. For all of its lauded FX, the art direction in Avatar was as dull and lifeless as the glassy eyes of the masses who made this swill the highest grossing film of all time.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:32 p.m. CST

    Midichlorians demystify the force

    by Nerd Rage

    One of the coolest aspects of Star Wars is interpreting symbolism behind the force. A forced scientific explanation is (like the youtube video said) a huge middle finger to the fans.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:32 p.m. CST

    @one9deuce

    by 11ZOMBIES

    You are wrong. Period. I don't think you are paying enough attention. See, there's this thing called subtext, do try to keep up.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:34 p.m. CST

    @ Nerd Rage

    by 11ZOMBIES

    See, that's the thing: That quibble can be cleared up with maybe two seconds of thought about the Star Wars films as a whole. It's not a "huge middle finger", it's a point being made about Jedi hubris before the fall.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:36 p.m. CST

    SithMenace

    by lotharius3rd1118

    You seem like a sensible cat. I can completely understand a "meh" reaction. For some reason, I tend to care less about a character and more about a situation.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Without watching the review

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Just the thing about the opening crawl being inaccurate that Quint mentions made me think "Who gives a shit"

  • March 14, 2010, 12:41 p.m. CST

    Wait a minute - "EVERYONE" liked the OT??

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    God that is complete and utter horseshit.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:45 p.m. CST

    An artists right vs. audience rights.

    by lotharius3rd1118

    That's actually a pretty intersting question. Sad that this doc didn't really take that on. Personally, I think that all creation belongs to the artist until the time that he opens that art up to the audience. At the moment the artist's creation enters the public knowledge, it becomes the domain the public to do with as it wishes. But then again, an audience's knowledge of a creation is often stagnant and resists any updating or allowance of adaptation. I think Lucas drew a double-edged sword from its scabbard when he released the special editions. Oh well, at least it gave the material necessary for a really great South Park episode.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:46 p.m. CST

    lotharius

    by SithMenace

    Thanks man. You too.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:47 p.m. CST

    Lucas bashing "matters"?

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    "it's a warning to all other would-be "geniuses" that they ignore the opinions and feelings of their audience at their own peril." <p>Right. the peril of people writing bad things about your mega high grossing movie on the internet. Yes I'm sure filmmakers now quake in their boots knowing someone on a talkback might criticize them.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:47 p.m. CST

    Thunderbolt Ross

    by lotharius3rd1118

    Give the review a shot. It's pretty funny. PIZZA ROLL...PIZZA ROLL...Who's been fuckin' with my medicine?...PIZZA ROLL...PIZZA ROLL. <girl screams> Seriously, a geek review from Buffalo Bill from "Silence of the Lambs."

  • March 14, 2010, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Watch Avatar then a SW prequel

    by Nerd Rage

    back to back and tell me the experience is identical. Avatar is no where as mind-numbingly soulless and stilted as the prequels. Avatar actually attempts to draw you in where the prequels simply go through the motions to convey the Star Wars universe without actually capturing the magic that made it special in the first place. Again watch a prequel and Avatar back-to-back and tell me there's no difference. The convincing visuals and relentless urgency of Avatar alone put it another category.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:50 p.m. CST

    loserguy3000

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Yeah I guess that just about sums it up

  • March 14, 2010, 12:50 p.m. CST

    11Zombies, you missed the point.

    by lotharius3rd1118

    He really was bashing TPM. I know you want to have your cake and eat it too, but it just doesn't work that way. But it's ok. You can still laugh at the ripping of a movie and continue enjoying the movie on your own. Kinda like a roast really, only the one being roasted isn't laughing.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:57 p.m. CST

    lotharius

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Oh I will, I'm just sayin'

  • March 14, 2010, 12:59 p.m. CST

    Who said Avatar and SW prequels are identical?

    by lotharius3rd1118

    Nerd Rage, that is a silly fucking argument. Personally I enjoyed the experience of all the prequels (even the one I didn't like) and Avatar equally, but they are no where near identical experiences. As far as theater expeiences go, all four of those movies rank below Snakes on a Plane 'cause I was drunk and the audience was rowdy as Hell. Avatar has some pretty cringe-inducing moments as well as some pulse-pounding, mind-blowing ones. SW has spectacle and a feeling that you drag into the theater with you. They're not in the same category, therefore comparing them is pointless. It's like comparing Demme's "Married to the Mob" to Coppola's "The Godfather Part II." Just different leagues.

  • March 14, 2010, 12:59 p.m. CST

    11Zombies missed another point

    by ME_M

    "No, it's actually funny because he's showing how silly all the haters are, nitpicking plot points that can be explained with perhaps two seconds of thought"... Not quite. He was saying that two seconds of thought by Lucas during the scriptwriting process would have avoided plot points that don't make any sense even when the characters try to explain it.

  • March 14, 2010, 1 p.m. CST

    TPM

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    It is pretty shitty. When I first saw it, it was a time of cognitive dissonance. A few years ago I got the Phantom Edit, which in a perfect world would be included in a Blu Ray release. Much better, but still crap in spots. It helps to determine the specific problems because it's not ALL bad. Like those goofball aliens at the beginning, one of them talks so fucking annoying, it seems like they all do, and seems like the whole start of the film is thrown off.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:04 p.m. CST

    this bashing has been noted for some time..

    by emeraldboy

    and anyone with acsess to a pc can now blog thier opinions. The phantom sequel love never dies has ben 25 years in the making. it opened last week. despite the 9 million pounds lord webber raked in advanced pretickets. the online reviews for it uniformally awful. appalling, appalling, appalling someone blogged and someone else dubbed the show paint never dries. god help the poor young restrauntuer who decides to open an establishment. Bloggers or online reviewers dont have any restraint and can say whatever the like even if they never heard about a play which has just opened. book which has come out. like or dislike movies like the star wars prequels or avatar or a musical like lord webbers Love never dies. cameron, lucas and lord webber wont be losing any sleep financially. lord webber said of the online reviews which were scathing, we will have to take note of the onle reviews.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Lucas bashing does matter

    by Nerd Rage

    Lucas' legacy is ruined by the prequels. They take away his credibility as an artist and as a visionary. Not many visionary filmmakers would want to repeat his mistakes after the backlash Lucas had.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:09 p.m. CST

    What's the Phantom Edit?

    by lotharius3rd1118

    For me, the most glaring problem with TPM is described in two words: Jake Lloyd. Sorry to disappoint JarJar haters out there. But, there was no reason to cast such a young kid in the first movie and then have him age so rapidly doing into the next movie, although everyone else stays the exact same. Every time that kid was on screen I cringed. In my mind, JarJar had nothing on him. But, that movie is not without its pleasures. Darth Maul was a cool, though underused, character. A lot of the effects were nifty. The podrace was one hell of a white-knuckled moment. There was some stunning designs. An awesome, epic lightsaber battle. And, out of the prequels, TPM seemed to hew closer to the look and feel of the OT.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Nerd Rage

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    At the risk of repeating myself, how did this backlash you refer to affect Lucas negatively? His "mistakes" were hugely successful. The franchise rolls on. I think it's safe to say this backlash you refer to is a vocal but tiny minority. There are plenty of people that ate up Lucas's "mistakes" to more than compensate for the few that didn't.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:14 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    "Whatever flaws the prequels may contain, all three films when taken as either a whole or individually are better than Avatar." TheLastCleric, you should have added an 'imho' to that statement cos I for one certainly do not agree with it (neither does the critical community, as reflected by rottentoms, nor the public, as reflected by the box office).

  • March 14, 2010, 1:14 p.m. CST

    I'm glad you feel that way, Nerd Rage.

    by lotharius3rd1118

    Ego is important, I suppose. There's a difference between bashing and criticizing, just as there is a difference between insulting and ribbing. I think you underestimate the ability of people like Lucas to ignore a basher in favor of a criticizer.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:16 p.m. CST

    lotharius

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    If you haven't already, google the phantom edit. Some guy just cleaned the movie up, basically. <p>I agree Jake Lloyd is at least equal to Jar Jar. I don't know if he gets the number one spot to himself, but he is awful

  • March 14, 2010, 1:16 p.m. CST

    lotharius

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    If you haven't already, google the phantom edit. Some guy just cleaned the movie up, basically. <p>I agree Jake Lloyd is at least equal to Jar Jar. I don't know if he gets the number one spot to himself, but he is awful

  • March 14, 2010, 1:19 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    lotharius, I agree with you. TPM does feel closest to the original trilogy and I think it's because of the location shoot and the practical set designs.<p> When AOTC and ROTS came around Lucas was so enamoured of CGI and green screen he went too far and subsequently both films have that artifical 'photoshop' look to them.<p>

  • March 14, 2010, 1:26 p.m. CST

    THe Phantom edit is.

    by hallmitchell

    A guy who recut the Phantom menace and took out all of the silly scenes with Jar Jar binks and scenes like creatures farting. It's alot better edit. It might even still be on youtube. There was a rumour that it was Kevin Smith who did the edit. Yet he's denied it.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:26 p.m. CST

    I don't underestimate

    by Nerd Rage

    Lucas' ability to insulate himself from criticism by surrounding himself with "yes" men. He may be in complete denial about how much the prequel backlash bruised his legacy but that doesn't change the fact that it did bruise his legacy.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:30 p.m. CST

    AotC is certainly the most plastic-y of PT

    by lotharius3rd1118

    Everything about the tone and the colors of that movie seemed wrong. Everything was too clean, too engineered. RotS suffered that same problem, but at least made up for it with a fun spirit and an engaging storyline which are two things that AotC didn't have.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Actually, the Plinkett review, to me...

    by StarWarsRedux

    ...seems pretty damn crappy. <p>Granted, I'm one of the few people out there who actually thought TPM was a great movie right from the start, but it's more than just a mere disagreement. The 70 minute review is usually either just picking nits or indulging in crass, irrelevant humor. The level to which he tears down the holes in the story is a little absurd, and something you could do with just about any popular blockbuster nowadays. Does the trade-blockade aspect of TPM make perfect sense? No, but then neither does the stock-shorting in "Casino Royale", the close-to-the-chest plotting of "The Dark Knight" or just about anything in JJ's "Star Trek". And let's not even start with new sacred cows like LOTR or "Avatar", because that'd just give everyone headaches... <p>Probably the most distasteful part of the review for me was the "man on the street" section where he picks 4 "average" people to describe characters from TPM, which just struck me as cheap and manipulative masquerading as journalistic objectivity. Perhaps he should look for a job at Fox News.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Nerd Rage

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    You're delusional. The prequels were successful because a lot of people liked them. Millions of "yes" men and women and kids, I guess. Christ at a certain point you people are going to have to face the fact that your outrage is just not that important.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:37 p.m. CST

    The only true Litmus Test..

    by McTreble

    The OT gets better with age and repeat viewing, the PT gets worse. Nothing more needs to be said.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:38 p.m. CST

    Insulated, an interesting choice of words.

    by lotharius3rd1118

    Because you seem to be convinced that your opinion is an overriding one speaking for all geeks everywhere and that it has irrevocably harmed the legacy of one of the last quarter century's most influential filmmakers. Sorry, but your disturbingly vocal outrage about a movie that was generally well-liked by everyone outside of your clique will have no effect on anyones appreciation of great films like the OT or "American Grafitti." Or even "Willow" for that matter, which is the bee's knees of fantasy movies.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Demode

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Agreed. That is the single worst change that was made. Just fucking idiotic, horribly executed. Han Solo dodges lasers by head bobbing

  • March 14, 2010, 1:44 p.m. CST

    I though the funniest parts of the Plinkett review

    by lotharius3rd1118

    were the most obvious. No real nitpicking to pick up on the discrepancy of how the Trade Federation landed their ships on the opposite side of the planet as the side where the Naboo live.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Greedo would have missed anyway.

    by lotharius3rd1118

    That head bob wouldn't have dodge shit. The shot purposely went wide. If Greedo was that bad a shot, Han probably just could have walked away while Greedo emptied his pistol at him and killed everyone in the cantina but Han.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:47 p.m. CST

    At least he took out Luke's girly scream

    by lotharius3rd1118

    when he fell down the pit at the end of the ESB special edition.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:47 p.m. CST

    Plinkett reviews rock

    by Chief Joseph

    Notice how no one can defend against anything his actually says. They'll bitch about the characters voice or the dead hooker jokes. I love all his "reviews", ST:TNG and Avatar included. Now when friends of mine say, "WHAT!? How can you hate Star Trek Generations!?" I can point them to Mr. Plinkett. BTW his Plinkett character predates those reviews; a lot of those gags make more sense if you watch his other videos in order.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:50 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    StarWarsRedux, yes it is nit-picking and i've seen TPM 3 times and still not picked up on most of the stuff Plinkett highlights.<p> But you gotta admit the fact that the 'decoy Queen Amidala' orders the real Queen Amidala to go and clean a filthy droid is pretty fucking hilarious.. not to mention the flight helmet for a 6yr old left in the Naboo fighter. Worth a giggle.<p> The major complaints about the lack of a protagonist and the muddled plotting are rather more serious tho.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:54 p.m. CST

    Maybe it was like a game that they played.

    by lotharius3rd1118

    The Queen gets ordered around by the servant and the servant is like, "Oh, next week I'm gonna get you good." I forgot about that. The entire section on the convoluted logic and questionable ethics of Qui-Gon was classic as well.

  • March 14, 2010, 1:56 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    lotharius, I know some people are purists but I actually really like all the Special Edition enhancements (with the one exception of Greedo). The swooping shot through Cloud City is particularly nice, and the extra tentacles on the Sarlaac.<p> I still live in hope that the PT may get the 'Special Edition' treatment when it comes to Blu Ray release... and we might get an official 'phantom edit' that tweaks and twists the three films into something a little better. In this case tho it's probably more a matter of cutting out scenes than adding them!

  • March 14, 2010, 2:05 p.m. CST

    Could have done without the sarlaac enhancements

    by lotharius3rd1118

    But I did like the new song-and-dance number that John Williams constructed for the band in Jabba's Palace. That was a terrific scene. I also liked the juxtaposition of Like being rescued from the weather vane with Vader's return to the Executioner in orbit.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:06 p.m. CST

    "dependable and loyal fanbase"

    by JacksParasites

  • March 14, 2010, 2:08 p.m. CST

    @Lordoflight--agreed

    by Powerring

    I really dig the imrpoved effects, especially elimination of matte lines and blue screen errors. I prefer that Greedo shot first, so han could have redemption later. Lucas's original 3 movies, THX and everything else brought movies out of the stone age. I cannot let my dislike (not hate) of the prequels to tarnish his monumental contributions to cinema.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:09 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    Sarlaac was turned into 'Audrey 2' from LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS! What's not to love?!

  • March 14, 2010, 2:11 p.m. CST

    That it didn't sing, of course!

    by lotharius3rd1118

    It think it needed big fat lips to enhance the effect.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:11 p.m. CST

    11ZOMBIES

    by secretcylon

    You are totally and completely wrong. Sorry.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:11 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    "IM'A MEAN GREEN MOTHER FROM TATOOINE AND I'M BAD..."

  • March 14, 2010, 2:12 p.m. CST

    The fundamental problem with the prequels

    by SwedishChef

    is the depiction of Anakin. The whole Star Wars saga is contingent on the Character of Anakin working. The original trilogy succeeds in making the audience feel that the fall of Anakin was tragic. He was a great and heroic man who fell to the Dark Side. Unfortunately in the prequels he is portrayed as nothing more than a whining spoiled crybaby. Essentially he was a jerk from the start. Seducing him to the Dark side did not require much effort at all as he was an ass to begin with. Ergo the whole story falls on itself. The prequels makes the original trilogy almost unwatchable now. Let me pose a question to all of you. Was the apparent depiction of the Jedi as self-absorbed, self-righteous and arrogant intentional. I mean if you go back and watch the prequels, the Sith are almost heroic. The Jedi seem to deserve their downfall due to their own ignorance and arrogance. Discuss. Chef out.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:13 p.m. CST

    Glad to know someone else has seen

    by lotharius3rd1118

    Little Shop of Horrors. "Down on Skid Row" is one of the best musical sequences ever shot on film.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:15 p.m. CST

    "dependable and loyal fanbase" Who are you kidding?

    by JacksParasites

    I am so sick of these spoiled haters who feel like they own the movies. Sorry, ya don't. The person who owns the copyright does. If you don't like the films, then don't watch them. Many of us don't have a problem with the prequels and are tired of hearing a bunch of overgrown children bitch & complain about how Lucas raped your childhood. And Obi Wan is acting in the role of Jedi Knight in the beginning of Phantom, justifying the usage even if it wasn't on paper. It's really not rocket science here. Get over it.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:16 p.m. CST

    I would think the haters would relate to Anakin...

    by JacksParasites

    since they whine far more than he ever did.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:18 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    "Alaaaaaaaaaarm, goes off at seven...."<p> Lotharius, you seem like a good sorta fella, you should put a post or two in our Pedalback group (currently in residence in the Exploding Girl tb)... a place to talk about movies without the other bs you often get on aicn...just tell 'em Cobra sent you.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:21 p.m. CST

    Of course the Sith were heroic

    by lotharius3rd1118

    they were Jedi once, heroes who fought for peace and balance within the force, who then left the Jedi Order when they disagreed. They all did it at some point thinking they were doing the right thing. Anakin thought that his destorying the Jedi Order would save Padme and help bring order to the war torn galaxy. But with the Sith, comes the tragedy that all their attempts to thwart the injustices of seemingly arrogant Jedi corrupts the Force around them. They lose everything in their attempt to save it. That's just my take anyway.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:22 p.m. CST

    Thanks, Cobra-Kai

    by lotharius3rd1118

    I'll do that.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:24 p.m. CST

    Cameron intentionally dumbed down Avatar...

    by ObiBen

    ...to spare the public from overload? Jeez, it's like 1999 all over again. Let the rationalizing begin!

  • March 14, 2010, 2:26 p.m. CST

    He's right, TPM sucks!

    by Orionsangels

    I was in denial for a while. It took years to come to grip with that.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Liked ROTS most of the 6, still not interested in this movie

    by Geomancer21

    I agree with Quinr. beating a dead horse.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:39 p.m. CST

    Hey Man I'm outta work!

    by Annie The Pod Racer

    And they shoulda gone back for my mom sooner than 10 years. Dang-

  • March 14, 2010, 2:49 p.m. CST

    Avatar Review

    by Sgt.Steiner

    Was dead on. Compared to Ripley in "Aliens", Kyle Reese in "The Terminator", Hudson in "Aliens", Bud in "The Abyss", and yes, even Jack and Rose in "Titanic", Jake Scully and the characters of "Avatar" are not unlike the Avatars themselves: a group of blanks. With the exception of Quaritch, who should have had a cheesy neon sign above his head(which would have fit nicely with the planetary decor) which read "THE BAD GUY". Lang had more to work with in "Public Enemies", where he played, you know, an actual character.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:50 p.m. CST

    That reviewer is an idiot as are his friends

    by JacksParasites

    The story of the film is a group of disparate characters join forces to protect an invading foreign power from oppressing a people. It's similar to many of plots that have been done in other movies and I fail to see how anyone who has seen the film could not know this. The reason there's no one protagonist is because TPM is what we call an ensemble film (ex. The Breakfast Club). Ensemble films have several protagonists, each following either their own arc or the same arc. Qui Gon is a roguish Jedi who doesn't always play by the rules and who is determined to help Anakin fulfill his destiny (not unlike Morpheus' role in The Matrix). Queen Amadala is a pacifist but is determined to protect her people from oppression no matter what. Did this guy's dopey friends even SEE the film?

  • March 14, 2010, 2:50 p.m. CST

    Felt my heart sink...

    by ObiBen

    ...as soon as those Nemodian guys started talking. Like at the beginning of Johnny Mnemonic, when the first lines of dialogues are uttered, alarm buzzers go off and you go "UH-HO, that's going to be long and painful"...

  • March 14, 2010, 2:55 p.m. CST

    Plinkett review is spectacular

    by VitaminZ

    It's the final word on The Phantom Menace and exposes the problems with that film better than anything else has. The only people complaining about it are 1. Star Wars fans who are still in denial about Episode I and 2. Film nerds who are jealous they weren't the ones to make that 70 minute review.

  • March 14, 2010, 2:59 p.m. CST

    @ The_Crimson_King

    by RickyDMMontoya

    I would shit on him for creating the blockbuster and geek fanboy culture.

  • March 14, 2010, 3:08 p.m. CST

    @jacksparasites

    by PornKing

    A more relevant question is whether you understood the reviewer. He points out the FACT that almost any good sci-fi movie has a protagonist because it works well. See the examples cited. Without one, you generally have a weak film ala Phantom Menace. The characters were cardboard. You're really stretching with your definition of Amidala. She was a robot. Qui Gon is a rogueish Jedi? Again, the reason hardly anyone can remember what these characters were like is because they were forgettable. Not iconic. Nothing noteworthy. If you asked someone about Morpheus's character, they would easily describe him. I couldn't tell you anything about almost any of the characters in Ep1/2 except "boring, annoying, robotic." But hey, it's cool that you liked the movie. It's just hard to overlook the valid points the reviewer brings up, such as how terrible the plot is and the characters. Trade disputes? Huh? *yawn*

  • March 14, 2010, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Avatar is Cameron's Phantom Menace

    by umbral_shadow_

    Look at the similarities. Both are CG overloaded. Both pushed technial boundaries. Both had a dumbed-down story to appeal to 10 yr old snot-faced kids and "simple" adults who work in burger joints or clean lavatories for a living - I.e pandering to the lowest common denominator. And both arrived on a wave of hype and intense expectation from directors who had been away for a long time. And, dare I say it, both were a profound disappointment.

  • March 14, 2010, 3:20 p.m. CST

    Avatar

    by SwedishChef

    is a technology driven film. In no way should this have been nominated for best picture. The story is basic and the characters are cardboard cutouts. We know nothing about them. Why is the protagonist evil? Because he has scars on his face and drinks coffee while he is eradicating a civilization. Lazy. The hero is in a wheelchair from his service in the military. That is about it for him. Weaver's character is a tree hugger. That is about it for her. This was an entertaining movie no doubt. But in ten years when CGI is even better than this, we will all look back at this film as just an average movie that drove CGI forward.

  • March 14, 2010, 3:21 p.m. CST

    Mr. Plinkett’s Episode 1 review

    by Vespalad

    Thank you SO MUCH for sharing that with me. That is one of the best (and definitely the funniest) SW inspired videos ever made.

  • March 14, 2010, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Vespalad

    by damned-dirty-ape

    I agree completely. I'm now going through the Star Trek reviews. This is a funny man.

  • March 14, 2010, 3:41 p.m. CST

    As for Lucas..

    by damned-dirty-ape

    I have to agree with Plinkett, when you have 20 years of being surrounded by yes men and no one is willing to offer any other opinions, Lucas is going to see his ideas as the only way to go. Unfortunately,the more commercial he has become, the further away from any form of decent story he has become. If you look at the section in Plinketts review where everyone is watching the cut of TPM, you can see the look on everyones faces (Lucas, Burtt and especially McCallum) that they have just watched a giant turd.

  • March 14, 2010, 3:42 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    UltraTron, it's easy to look back with hindsight but fuck dude you are SO right. Jim Caviezel would have made a great Anakin.<p> I've nothing against Hayden Christensen, but I hated him in that role. Didn't buy his character or sympathize with him in a single scene of the trilogy.

  • March 14, 2010, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Grammar

    by damned-dirty-ape

    I apologise for the grammar on the last post, i really should proof before i press enter

  • March 14, 2010, 3:59 p.m. CST

    The bit at the end of part 6 of the review...

    by Mr Gorilla

    ...Is really quite moving. I genuinely think that the original STAR WARS is one of the best films to come of our Hollywood. I know that it's old hat to us, all the stuff about Lucas revisiting myth etc etc - but at the time it was seriously visionary stuff - - to invent a whole fairy story, one that PSYCHOLOGICALLY had such effect on audiences. (And it still does.) Anyway, that review is spot on - the one thing I would add is that I think the prequels are HONOURABLE failures. I think he was trying to tell a story about how democracies become dictatorships - and to say something about good people turning bad. That's pretty ambitious stuff. Such a shame it didn't work out (though I did love Ep3 in the cinema).

  • March 14, 2010, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Cobra, I think Christensen was fine.

    by StarWarsRedux

    Just the right combination of heroic, sincere and JUST PLAIN FUCKING CREEPY. That's what I like about the PT-- at times, it's really goddamn WEIRD. <p>Anyway, he's better than the pretty-boy vampire from the fuckin' "Twilight" movies. We can all agree on that, I think.

  • March 14, 2010, 4:02 p.m. CST

    Plinkett is hilarious!

    by fiester

    Someone give this guy his own half-hour movie breakdown show. I'd watch every week.

  • March 14, 2010, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Review > than the movie

    by DannyDorko666

    Wow thanks for posting that review I've never seen it before. Very very funny stuff and its all true!

  • March 14, 2010, 4:15 p.m. CST

    the trek reviews

    by secretcylon

    Are amazing.

  • March 14, 2010, 4:21 p.m. CST

    by Thunderbolt Ross

  • March 14, 2010, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Elimination of matte lines

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I only wish they'd have gotten rid of the boxes around the spaceships. I don't understand why they didn't, really.

  • March 14, 2010, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Plinkett is a genius...

    by ChocolateJeebus

    ...and anyone who finds fault with his reviews is a retard. The man has eviscerated movies that I really liked (First Contact) and I couldn't disagree with him on anything even though I wanted to (his nit-picks on some of the Treks maybe). I still like those movies though. God bless him for handing Avatar its ass. That piece of shit should be forgotten forever.

  • March 14, 2010, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Did the "raped my childhood" meme start at AICN?

    by CarmillaVonDoom

    Just curious.

  • March 14, 2010, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Lucas's love affair

    by Manatee

    Lucas fell in love with his own mythology. As a result, he turned the prequels into a one-man show. That's a problem, since he can't write worth a shit. The writing for the prequels is worse than fan fiction, for cryin' out loud!

  • March 14, 2010, 4:34 p.m. CST

    The "raped my childhood" meme started at....

    by BumLove

    ...Aint It Uncles dotcom - the world's premiere site to meet Uncles from around the world. That site eventually evolved into what we now know as AICN.

  • March 14, 2010, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Describing characters

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    The describing characters part of part one of that review is stupid. Putting aside the fact that yes the characters in the original movies were much better, all the people interviewed were kids when that shit came out and adults for the new ones. OF COURSE the original characters made a bigger impression.

  • March 14, 2010, 4:56 p.m. CST

    Although I wasnt a HUGE fan of TPM or Jar Jar Binks...

    by Deviant Apex

    I still think that he meant for Phantom Menace to be more laidback and goofy to contrast Anakins life as a child with the darkness that comes later in Revenge of the Sith. Not sure about all the political jargon, but even it serves a purpose as it shows how a government can become corrupted. I think one of the biggest things that tends to get in the way of our enjoyment is how cynical we become as adults. The majority of us saw the original series as children so its only natural for us to have a sense of amazement when it comes to remembering seeing them for the first. Even though I was still somewhat young when I saw TPM, it was at this time I started to question the quality of everything I saw. Anyway, the point Im trying to make is maybe the prequel trilogy isnt as bad as we try to make it out as.

  • March 14, 2010, 5 p.m. CST

    Episode 1 should have began with Anakin as a teenager

    by BumLove

    The decision to have him as a child was a business decision to market the movie to children. Lucas's years as a businessman have been a much larger part of his history than his years as a director.

  • March 14, 2010, 5:03 p.m. CST

    i still dont get chilhoods being raped

    by Bouncy X

    whatever your childhood was like, whether it was awesome or full of sexual abuse, nothing can or will change that. star wars was an amazing part of your childhood you say? well thats done and over with, whatever memories you have will always be there. how can something that happens AFTER have any effect on it? if the prequels changed your view on the originals then fine but it doesn't and hasn't changed whatever effect they had during your childhood. oh and that review had a very cringeworthy scene, showing that one guy dropping to his knees and practically kiss the floor because he was let in to watch the movie. wow...just wow, those are the people you really gotta worry about. those are the people that make us normal folk weary of admitting we like the same things.

  • March 14, 2010, 5:04 p.m. CST

    They should make a doc called "Thank you Irvin Kershner"

    by bishopfan85

    Speaking of a dead horse, this is one I've been beating for several decades now. There are many Star Wars fans out there, but in reality there are more than may realize it who are actually Empire Strikes Back fans who accept the rest of the Star Wars Universe due to their association with ESB. And in saying that, ESB is a great film because Lucas gave a concept that he deserves all of the accolades in the world for creating and handing if over (even if only due to illness) to a director who could take his vision and actually mold it into a top notch quality cinematic masterpiece. Irvin Kershner is the reason (IMO) for much of the Star Wars fanaticism and he along with several of the writers of the Star Wars novelizations and even video games have proven that if Lucas ever were to wise up and hand over his vision to others who specialize is taking great ideas and bringing them to life then the Star Wars Universe could continue to produce quality films and series. Here's hoping before any further steps are taken with the franchise that these considerations are taken and we can actually have our childhood's "un-raped".

  • March 14, 2010, 5:22 p.m. CST

    In retort to those who complain about nerds, I give you......

    by gooseud

    Godfather III. If the internet had been in full bloom at the tile that GFIII came out, what do you think the reaction would have been? The only difference is, Godfather fans are a bit older and less tech savvy, thus less able to create Plinkett type rants. Is there a more reviled sequel, that commits virtually all of the identical sins of the prequel trilogy, as GFIII? But let me guess, all the people who hate that movie are honorable fans venting righteous anger, but the prequel haters are basement dwelling nerds, right? Guess it depends on your viewpoint.....

  • March 14, 2010, 5:27 p.m. CST

    The main flaw

    by gooseud

    is that Hayden Christenson isnt scary. When the guy you pick to play Darth Fucking Vader doesnt at any point seem even remotely frightening, or even for that matter appear that he could kick Rosie O'Donnells ass, let alone Obi-Wans.....I'm gonna say thats a bit of a problem. That stupid "scary voice" he puts on when hes yelling up at Obi-Wan "Its over for you, my master!!" LOL unintentional comedy at its finest!! And to think, the kid that played Pyro in X2 was in the running, but was judged to be.....not as scary as Hayden Christenson?!!? Did he just go home and kill himself on the spot??

  • March 14, 2010, 5:36 p.m. CST

    I came up with that phrase independently

    by OBSD

    After TPM, which was the biggest cinematic letdown of my entire life, I had a fake grin on my face for 2 weeks. If I just acted like it didn't suck, then I could actually actually make it not suck by sheer force of will, right? Wrong. For a few years, I was never quite able to shake the feeling that something was off with the very idea of the entire Star Wars universe. That because this movie was soooo goddamned awful, it de-legitimized my entire fascination with everything Star Wars since I first saw it as a 4 year old in 1977. And then one day I was reading an Authority comic in which the team is fighting an all powerful being. During on part of the battle, he turns toward a female member of the team and in a split second, travels back in time, molests her as a young girl and pops back to the present. In that moment, she remembers him molesting her (even though he just did it) and crumples to the ground and is rendered useless for the rest of the fight. And in that moment, I knew the exact feeling that I had about Star Wars was as if Lucas himself traveled back in time and sat next to me in the theater and just as the opening scroll came up, forced my hand on his erection. It was only months and months later did I realize that others were using the phrase "George Lucas Raped My Childhood". I'm not claiming to have started anything, just sometimes you have a thought and then you realize that there are millions of others that are thinking the exact same thing.

  • March 14, 2010, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Why I don't read comic books

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    "the team is fighting an all powerful being. During on part of the battle, he turns toward a female member of the team and in a split second, travels back in time, molests her as a young girl and pops back to the present."

  • March 14, 2010, 5:39 p.m. CST

    What's wrong with Godfather III?

    by lotharius3rd1118

    i kinda liked that one. Sure it wasn't pure greatness, but it was still effective entertainment.

  • March 14, 2010, 5:45 p.m. CST

    If it doesnt mention crystal skull then its irrelevant

    by Piratebill

    There are many excuses for the prequels but to follow those films up with the crystal skull sealed the deal on the whole "lucas has lost it" argument.

  • March 14, 2010, 5:48 p.m. CST

    Fans hate Godfather 3 because....

    by Kizeesh

    Idiot film-school morons with delusions of relevance like the guy in Scream 2 said so....<p> <p> It's a decent mafia movie, It may not be as good as GodFathers 1&2 but considering they're commonly regarded as two of the best films ever made it's a little harsh to disown the somewhat poorer 3rd film just because it continues the story.

  • March 14, 2010, 5:51 p.m. CST

    Phantom Edit and Attack of the Phantom

    by Kizeesh

    are brilliant works of editing. Easily one of the most intelligent reworkings of a film I've seen, best watched with the commentarys by Michael Nichols (The Phantom Editor who made them both) He's very astute.<p> You can download them from somewhere on FanEdit . org

  • March 14, 2010, 5:52 p.m. CST

    Kenobi, Anakin, Vader. -- 3 guys originally

    by Star Hump

    Go back to the original film and watch the scene in Kenobi's home where he introduces Luke to his father's lightsaber. In that small bit of exposition, Kenobi describes how a Jedi Knight named Darth Vader seduced and betrayed Anakin Skywalker.<p> There were originally 3 Jedi Knights in the equation. That was stupidly all thrown out the window in ESB, altering the series permanently and making Kenobi (one of the good guys, supposedly) a big fat fucking liar.<p> This renders the entire prequels moot as they tell the story of TWO Jedi Knights, one who succumbs to the dark side. Lucas was just making shit up as he went along...and ultimately, it doesn't really matter anymore.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:05 p.m. CST

    this film is a few years too late

    by sith_rising

    nobody cares anymore. prequel hating is so 2001. by now the lines are drawn - you either hate them, tolerate them, enjoy them or love them, and nothing will change your mind. might as well make a film about abortion. is it really going to change anyone's mind? I have issues with the prequels (CG yoda, midichlorians, fake sets) and I have issues with the originals (ewoks, leia is luke's sister), but fuck it, it's star wars. you either love it or leave it.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:22 p.m. CST

    "Thank You Irvin Kershner"... For what?

    by StarWarsRedux

    For boring 60's and 70's dramas nobody remembers? For the limp sequel "Return of a Man Called Horse"? For ruining a perfectly good John Carpenter script with "Eyes of Laura Mars"? For tarnishing Sean Connery's spotless run as 007 in "Never Say Never Again"? For pissing off Frank Miller about Hollywood with "RoboCop 2"? For the fucking "SeaQuest" pilot? <p>Don't get me wrong, I think Kersh added to ESB's value with his better understanding of pacing and performances. But Lucas is still the main driving force, the man with the vision, the story and the storyboards. If anybody's the unsung hero of ESB, it's Peter Suschitzky.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:32 p.m. CST

    Oh, and the reasons Godfather III suffers:

    by StarWarsRedux

    (1) Nino Rota was dead. Imagine if John Williams had died before composing "Duel of the Fates". Imagine what Nino Rota could've penned for the death of Michael Corleone. Maybe then it wouldn't have leaned so heavily upon Cavalleria Rusticana. <p>(2) Tom Hagen was dead. Thanks to the fact that Paramount wouldn't pay Robert Duvall the same amount as Al Pacino, the actor refused to sign on to the series. It sucks, because Hagen was more or less the only character who had the nerve to challenge Michael, and it would've helped to make the film much more dramatic. <3>(3) Sofia. Francis Ford Coppolla was unable to secure the big-actresses he wanted for the part of Michael's daughter (Julia Roberts, Winona Ryder) and didn't bother to look hard enough to find an unknown who was effective in the lead. Instead, he put his own daughter in the role, and while it would later turn out she had some talent as a director, it sure wasn't there in terms of acting. Granted, casting his sister as Connie worked, but sometimes nepotism just doesn't work out.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:34 p.m. CST

    Ha ha it is actually on Spike as I type this

    by CarmillaVonDoom

    Episode II is on right now. At the very least, Natalie Portman looks BEAUTIFUL in this movie. And Christopher Lee is in it. So not a total loss.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:42 p.m. CST

    TESB was a perfect storm

    by sith_rising

    lucas and kershner could collaborate on 100 more film, even 100 more star wars films, and it would never happen again. lightining in a bottle. never happen again.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:47 p.m. CST

    THAT WAS SOME SERIOUSLY FUNNY, FUNNY SHIT

    by BringingSexyBack

    It should have been nominated for a documentary Oscar. Totally spot on. The problems he pointed out with TPM also apply to Pirates 3. I can't wait for the AOTC review.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:47 p.m. CST

    I forgot that she shows up in bondage gear

    by CarmillaVonDoom

    and then leaves Anakin with blue balls. LAWL.

  • March 14, 2010, 6:56 p.m. CST

    crashcow

    by tradeskilz

    We are all loser fanboy douchebags except you. You have a JOB! Thats totally fucking amazing. What an achivement. Not only do you hold a job you repotedly have had SEX. Sex, i can't beleive it, you are so fucking special. Only in the mind of someone who actually IS a total fucking loser is having a job and having sex something note worthy enough to brag about. Seriousy dude who the fuck do you think you are? Movies is my hobby and i suspect you feel strongly about it too or what the hell are you doing on this site? You even took the time to register an account to post. (even though you use it to post disparaging remarks about the other people here) I have friends who talk about nothing but golf all day long. Maybe i should invite you so that you can tell them to stop pretending to be Tiger Wood and that they should go out and get laid like you do. Yeah that will make you look awesome. Douche.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:03 p.m. CST

    Stop it! It's over!

    by The Reluctant Austinite

    It's not worth talking about anymore. The Star Wars prequels VS The Lord of the Rings movies arguement was over the day "Fellowship" opened. Lucas finally made a passable/ watchable movie by "Revenge of the Sith" in spite of being strapped with the worthless characters and clumsy storytelling of the first two. He did this only because he asked for and welcomed more help from other sources and friends on the third film. It's over! Let's move on. He blew it!

  • March 14, 2010, 7:05 p.m. CST

    what a fucking waste of time. if there is a movie

    by FamousEccles

    you don't like, don't watch it. if it has a sequel or prequel you don't like ignore it. I love STAR WARS. Do I give a fuck if someone else doesn't? No I do not. I loved the first POTC. The other other two were shit. Do I care that other people like them? Fuck no - good for them. Holy Shit. Good forbid these people should actually encounter a real life problem sometime. "Raped My Childhood"mentality says more about the "victims" than Lucas. Stupid dopey fuckers.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:06 p.m. CST

    IT'S NOT OVER! NOTHING'S OVER! NOTHING!

    by BringingSexyBack

  • March 14, 2010, 7:13 p.m. CST

    Reluctant-- "Fellowship" was okay...

    by StarWarsRedux

    ...but "The Two Towers" and "Return of the King" are both pretty much useless to me. Bloated, boring and almost completely devoid of suspense or drama. All that time wasted with the invincible Legolas and Aragorn in one huge, impersonal battle against swarthy, monstrous armies after another. Pass.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:16 p.m. CST

    The Reluctant Austinite - FELLOWSHIP is one of my favourite

    by FamousEccles

    movies, but 2 & 3 where a bad mess. The Ghost Army saving Gondor sucked monkey balls. I'd been waiting foer Aragorn to take some names at that battle - big disappointment. The peopler of Gondor would have told him to just fuck off without his ghost army. Turned him into a pussy. Dumping Christopher Lee was stupid too.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:22 p.m. CST

    Ultratron..

    by nolan bautista

    i dont have the THX system in my house (i never bothered)...i was talking about the ones in theaters..sounds like you got a nice home theater set-up..

  • March 14, 2010, 7:26 p.m. CST

    What?!?!?

    by The Reluctant Austinite

    Look, no sane person could possibly argue that the Star Wars prequels are in ANY way better than the Lord of the Rings films, which are all 3 consistant and really just one long story. Not in story. Not in characters. It's only apples and oranges because Star Wars is more sci-fi and Lord of the Rings is pure fantasy, and some people enjoy one of those genres and not the other. Both of you guys think "Two Towers" and "Return of the King" are "worthless" and --this is the weirdest comment I've ever heard--"a bad mess"? Again, that's why I quit this argument. It's insane, and it's over. Look, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be an asshole, I'm just not understanding the argument. I guess you guys are likely very young (still in your 20S or younger?), and it's likley you'll see the difference between these two trilogies in 10 or 15 years. My tastes certainly changed!

  • March 14, 2010, 7:26 p.m. CST

    Star Hump - of course Lucas was making it all up as he went alon

    by FamousEccles

    That's how movies are done.Kenobi said something in Episode 4 that Lucas changed for Episode 5. this means that YES - Obi Wan told a lie. What is so hard to grasp about that. People tell lies to manipulate others into doing their wishes. Lucas found it necessary to change things as he went along. There is nothing in the Jedi Code that prohibits lying. Fucking yes. Lying no.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:29 p.m. CST

    The prequel's were simply awful.

    by DARTH VOODOO

    As a die hard fan of the original films I can objectively state that the prequels were simply bad films.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:29 p.m. CST

    Private MacReady reporting for duty

    by MacReady452

    here is the requested post necessary for that extra boost.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:37 p.m. CST

    Reluctant-- Jackson's handling...

    by StarWarsRedux

    ...of the passage of the Ring is interesting, but I could honestly give a crap about the humans, the elves or anyone taller than a hobbit. Whenever we cut away from Frodo, Sam and Gollum the films suffer and turn into rather rote crusader-mentality sequences of hollow stoicism and impersonal battles. I'll take Lucas' chases, dogfights and duels over those any day, no matter how much carpentry the dialogue needs. <p>Plus, I just can't stand how goddamn WHITE everybody is. Sorry, I'm from New York, and all that homogeneity just makes me uncomfortable after a while.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:37 p.m. CST

    The prequles were the biggest disappointment in the history of f

    by DARTH VOODOO

    I could go on and on and give examples of how and why, but at this point it seems everyone in the known universe has done that. Just suffice it to say that the prequels are simply the biggest disappointment in the history of Hollywood. They are a mess from start to finish...Could you imagine the box office numbers that TPM would have put up if it didn't suck? The world desperately wanted to love the first SW film in 16 years, but George Lucas gave the fans a film/films that insulted their intelligence and all but destroyed the legacy of the once untouchable franchise.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:42 p.m. CST

    The Reluctant Austinite - so you run from a discussion

    by FamousEccles

    rather than listen or try to understand the other side??? What is the fucking point of being in this forum so??? Guess it explains the "Reluctant" part of your name. I can't speak for StarWarsRedux, but you are way off in your wild and irrelevant guessing of my age. As to LOTR, being "consistent and one long story" - d'uh - would've been quite odd if it wasn't considering it was one story. Is STAR WARS inconsistent? How? Explain to me. BTW, I consider STAR WARS to be fantasy and not Sci-Fi, so comparisons with LOTR are inevitable. Many themes are similar - good vs. evil, friendship, sacrifice. Comparisons with TREK however are stupid.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:47 p.m. CST

    Y'know, I've said my piece on TPM before...

    by StarWarsRedux

    ...so instead of just repeating myself ad infinitum, I'm gonna post the link to what I goddamn wrote, and just let it be done with. <p>http://www.theaspectratio.net/phantommenace.htm

  • March 14, 2010, 7:52 p.m. CST

    Buncha gobbling turkeys - give Lucas a break, you sad bastards

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    This is 2010. I can understand this kind of ire back in 1999 but over ten years it's absolutely pathetic, and the knuckle dragging fanboy crowd really need to get things in perspective. Lucas made three disappointing movies, so what? Though given we have warped idiots here who think Jackson and Cameron dropped the ball with wholly successful and widely liked movies such as Avatar and LOTR, I'm now convinced that even a home run from The Flanneled One wouldn't have pleased them.<p> Go back and watch the prequels now, free from the weight of crushing expectataion and hype - they're not bad at all. Ambitious, flawed, hit and miss, moments of genius rubbing up against misjudged garbage. I'd take 'em over any blockbusters that have come subsequently save the aforementioned ones, plus The Dark Knight and Casino Royale.<p>So do we realy need to see a doc or fat nerds on you tube continuing to berate Lucas with utter inanities or nitpicking nonsense? Hell no. Any sensible person has had their fill of that.<p>And yes, those early AICN reviews are hilarious. Particularly since they backtracked once the dreaded pendulum of consensus began to swing the other way. Too bad Harry, Moriarty and Quint never had the courage of their convictions.

  • March 14, 2010, 7:55 p.m. CST

    StarWarsRedux, to be honest I was more interested

    by FamousEccles

    in the non-hobbit characters (Sam really got on my tits), but Jackson really balls them up ROTK (I recant my claim that TWO TOWERS was a mess - I had recently mentioned the POTC sequels and was momentarily confused - Helm's Deep is THE shit - how could I forget?). STAR WARS cheesy dialogue is part of it charm. I fear that the live action series will be out of place without it. Also, you are wrong about everybody in LOTR being white. Sauron's allies from the East, etc. were based on Middle Eastern, African, etc. races. the peoples of MiddleEarth were "white Europeans" by Tolkian's design - not Jackson's doing - he was just being true to the world in which the story was set. Pay close attention to the background characters in STAR WARS. Most humans are white too. I notice the black characters (is that PC) in LOST keep getting killed in the rare event any black actors are ever cast. Pick that bone with them. Not Jackson.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:01 p.m. CST

    Peter Graves is Dead!

    by InActionMan

    Let the Abe Vigoda jokes begin.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:03 p.m. CST

    Turd - fat nerds never forget.

    by FamousEccles

    "wholly successful and widely liked movies" - who gives a fuck about that? POTC 2 & 3 made shit loads of money too and many people like them. got the Oscar for ROTK, but this had been decided three years earlier. He deserved it for FOTR, movie 3 sucked. The same was done to Johnny Depp with POTC. Everyone knew there would be sequels so he was passed over the first time - only for him to stink in 2 & 3.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:04 p.m. CST

    For God sakes STOP pretending ROTS is watchable

    by IndustryKiller!

    its the worst fucking prequel. This common perception that its the best is based SOLELY on the fact that events actually occur, what counts is the execution of said events and said execution is uniformly some of the worst filmmaking and writing in screen history. I would rather never see Anakin fall to the darkside then see it played out in such an absurd manner. None of it has a single moment of pathos. Anakin vs. Obi Wan, Palpatine revealing himself, the hand off of the kids, Padme dying (which DIRECTLY contradicts continuity), nothing. In fact it's all laughably acted and written. Christensen is porn bad in some parts.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:06 p.m. CST

    So it's "AICN Talkback: The Movie"? No thanks.

    by ricarleite2

    I've proposed this very documentary and wrote a bit about my idea about 5 or 6 years ago at the originaltrilogy.com forums. And this TPM review has been posted here on AICN on several previous ocasions, but it is HILARIOUS. I wish GL would watch it, and I quote Chaplin when he was informed Hitler watched The Great Dictator twice: "I'd have given anything to know what he thought of it."

  • March 14, 2010, 8:06 p.m. CST

    Peter Graves??? Damn. Still he had a good run.

    by FamousEccles

  • March 14, 2010, 8:06 p.m. CST

    "Moments of genius." hahaha

    by IndustryKiller!

    Ridiculous comment of the talkback right there.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:07 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! - "Padme dying (which DIRECTLY

    by FamousEccles

    contradicts continuity)? - How?

  • March 14, 2010, 8:09 p.m. CST

    I can't be mad at the guy who gave us STAR WARS and Indy

    by CountryBoy

  • March 14, 2010, 8:12 p.m. CST

    CountryBoy, nice one!!

    by FamousEccles

  • March 14, 2010, 8:13 p.m. CST

    Famouseccles

    by IndustryKiller!

    Luke confront Leia in the Ewok village and asks her if she remembers her mother. Leia says yes, she died when she was very young, but she remembers her being very sad. Luke then has a moment of lament of the mother he never knew. ALL the drama of that scene comes from the fact that, unbeknowst to Leia, she is also describing Luke mother. So either Leia remembers the 7 second after she left the womb or Luke and Leia are talking about two different people, which is obviously not the intention of that scene considering it makes the whole fucking thing a giant case of mistaken identity since Luke thinks she is talking about their mutual mom. And if that is the case then all the drama from that wonderful character moment is completely fucking gone.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:15 p.m. CST

    So basically, Super Nerds want their money back!!

    by Disrobed

    And plus their time, which no one can get back! Lame get over it!!

  • March 14, 2010, 8:15 p.m. CST

    FamousEccles

    by InActionMan

    Industry Killer is right. In ROTJ Leia talks about childhood memories of her mother being sad. Most newborns who mothers die immediately after childbirth don't have memories about their mother.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:24 p.m. CST

    Next rant - Coppola and Lucas

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    That quote from Coppola - it's somewhat true, but Francis has got some nerve too talk. <p>Lucas and Coppola are interesting because they've essentially followed the same career path, just in different ways. The two of them were arguably the best directors of the movie brat crowd in the 70's. They were certainly the most consistent. Lucas - THX 1138, American Graffiti, Star Wars. All five star, visionary films in my books. Lucas was a GREAT director back then, arguably the most talented and out-of-the-box of them all. Coppola's 70's films - Godfather 1 and 2; Apocalypse Now; The Conversation. Again, all masterpieces. Even Spielberg and Scorsese had duds like 1941 and New New, York peppered amongst the Jaws' and Taxi Drivers'. Lucas and Coppola were on a higher plane. But once the 80's rolled around, unlike their colleagues, they both became more moguls than directors, and increasingly tired. Both burned out fast.<p>Coppola does have a point when he says we lost Lucas to Star Wars, Inc. If Lucas had enjoyed directing, he could have gone on to direct stuff like Apocalypse Now and Tucker and avant-garde things he produced like Powaaqantsi and Mishima and all that jazz, as well as big 'comercial' blockbusters like the remaining OT, Raiders, and Red Tails, since they were mostly all his projects. He could have had it all, and would now be feted as a genius. <p>However, Coppola is a pretentious clown, more interested in his vineyards and the nepotic shepherding of his privileged kids' directorial careers. This is a guy who basically directed Jack and The Rainmaker and Captain EO, and Godfather 3 to pay off his debts, and yet has the gall to criticise Lucas, or Scorsese, Nicholson, De Niro et al. (as in an interview a few years back) for selling out, and blabbing on about how young filmmakers should make 'personal films' (as if he can decide what is personal to an individual or not). Of course, he has put his money were his mouth is in recent years and is now making pretentious clap trap that largely goes unnoticed, like 'Youth Without Youth' and 'Tetro'. But he's largely a wash up now, just like that other ego jerker, John Millius (who was never that good to begin with). Coppola is just as much as 'sell-out' as Lucas; he was more interested in stroking his sack and being a fat, cigar-chewing mogul post-70's than a visionary director. At least Lucas didn't make movies to fund the production of cheap vino. <p>Coppola has pretentions and thinks that because he made dramas instead of genre that he has continued credibilty as a director. I believe he even took a knock at Christopher Nolan, saying that while Nolan was a talented guy, that TDK was still just a silly movie about a guy dressed as a rubber bat. A genrephobic comment such as that, instead of adjudging quality based on merit, reveals the true piousness at Coppola's core. His post Apocalypse career is just as much a fraud as Lucas' Star Wars factory. <p>In short, Lucas and Coppola both denied us the full scope of their talents. Lucas, simply because he's an introvert who hates directing (and because his divorce knocked the joy of filmmaking out of him), and Coppola because he's an egotistical douche now reduced to a hack for hire.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:29 p.m. CST

    FamousEccles - Elephants never forget, either

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    I think there's something of a correlation there with the fat nerd dino crowd.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:32 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! - it is "possible" that Leia

    by FamousEccles

    is referring to Padme. Leia is an untrained Jedi. Her birth was traumatic. She carries the memories of her mother's pain but cannot recall the specifics. Leia has these feelings because she was in the womb longer than Luke. It is also "possible" that she is speaking about Bail Organa's wife. She was sad because couldn't bear a child of her own, or was sad because she was concerned for Leia's safety and perhaps she died when Leia was young. There is no contradiction here. We are simply not told everything. Lucas doesn't see the need to explain everything. It's not the point. The viewer can fill in the blanks with their own imagination, or just go with the flow or bitch about it for the next twenty years. It's up to each person.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:33 p.m. CST

    Turd - you could be right. I'm a skinny nerd and I

    by FamousEccles

    forget shit all the time.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:35 p.m. CST

    OMG - I laughed so hard at that!

    by CloneRanger

    That review has brought out so much of the niggling stuff at the back of my head from when I first saw TPM! Have always been saying to my apologist mates about the yes men surrounding GL around the prequels, so glad Kurtz got a mention – I’d like to shake the man’s hand! I have been a committed SW fan from the VERY beginning. But where the Special Editions felt like heartburn/palpitations , the prequels were a goddam mini-stroke! TPM was bad enough, but I had such a deflated feeling coming out of Ep3, as when shooting it was originally promised that the epic Obi/Anakin fight would be a full on intense 12/15 min solid cut, instead we keep getting our attention jarred keep intercutting with the Palpatine/Yoda fight – could that not have been the exhibition bout before the main event?! My favourite prequel moment is the last 30 mins of AOTC and the Tartakofsky (sp) cartoon micro series (amazing what happens when GL doesn’t have direct control, you get humour AND character development!) Bottom line – totally committed OT fan, tried to like the Special Editions (thanks for the big Ronto’s arse in my face added at Mos Eisley George BTW) & then the Prequels, but after digesting it all, either it doesn’t comfortably fit in and/or make a whole lot of sense to what came before.... P.S. I STRONGLY suggest you look for ADIWANS ANH fan edit – colour corrected from the DVDs & cut in with the laserdisc OT goodness – now THAT was like watching it again for the first time, Yavin moon in the background for the Death Star assault anyone...

  • March 14, 2010, 8:35 p.m. CST

    All the haters...

    by TampaBayLightning

    ...seem to know the movies they bash in great detail. They all seem to have spent a lot of time watching the movies they proclaim to despise. I would wager that most of you own several versions of each movie on dvd, and vhs.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:36 p.m. CST

    FamousEccles...you just pulled that out of your ass

    by BumLove

    You can't bend logic both ways. If Leia's Jedi abilities were so powerful that she remembers her mother being sad, even though her mother died at birth and Leia at this point doesn't even know she's a Jedi....then why did she make out with Luke skywalker, her twin brother, in Empire? Where were her magnanimous Jedi abilities, then? Pull something else out of your ass.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:40 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! - moments of genius

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    Qui-Gon meditating while Maul stalks impatiently behind the force field in Menace; Order 66 in Sith; opera scene in Sith, Palpatine's music being played backwards in the subversive ceremony at the end of TPM, parralelling and mocking the similar scene at the end of Ep.IV; the musical/visual montage as Anakin sets out to find his mother in Clones, as well as the nod to 'The Searchers' in the grave ceremony later on; the cross-cutting between Anakin and Padme in their apartments in Sith before Anakin decides to go against Windu's orders - amongst many others. All terrific grace notes, or smart displays of audio/visual and editing invention worthy of the Lucas of old.<p>And yes - ROTS is perfectly watchable and inarguably the best of the prequels. Get your head out of the oven and maybe you'll realize that.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:43 p.m. CST

    PLINKETT I LOVE YOU

    by JaPra

    You summed up my 10 year frustration and anger I've had with Lucas for a series of prequels that were more about effects then story.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:46 p.m. CST

    Seriously famouseccles, you gotta be kidding me

    by IndustryKiller!

    She's using her Jedi powers to remember her mother FROM THE WOMB???!!! That would be hilarious if you didn't say it so earnestly. That argument is pathetic dude.<P>And I addressed the adopted mother issue. That moment has so much weight in ROTJ because Luke is asking about HIS MOTHER, not Leias adopted mother. And that is CLEARLY not the intention of that scene. THATS WHY LUKE ASKS. Want proof? here is the actual line from the film.<P>"LUKE: Leia, do you remember your mother? Your real mother?"<P> He specifies REAL mother. NOT adopted mother. If they are talking about two different people the moment is completely lost in the switcheroo Lucas retroactively pulled. But since the scene is so obviously about Luke and Leia talking about the woman who is mother to BOTH of them, we shouldn't even consider that as an option.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:52 p.m. CST

    Oh please Turd

    by IndustryKiller!

    I gave the prequels the Duel of the Fates scene earlier in the talkback. So we can agree there. That is the one respite in the epic black hole of awful that is all three films. The rest of what you described are not anything approaching genius. I mean cutting between Padme and Anakin looking out on the horizon is genius? Genius - I do not think this word means what you think it means. At best that moment is unintentionally funny cheeseball fluff. Especially given the terrible performances from the actors playing those characters, there isn't an ounce of pathos there. A career worst for Portman. Christensen on the other hand never had any talent to begin with, one of the worst actors of his generation.

  • March 14, 2010, 8:56 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller!

    by CloneRanger

    You are a genius sir, that argument about the Luke/Leia/Mother scenario PLUS the build up & VERY LAME explanation for the force ghost apperitionwhich we were waiting years for (cut from the film, but very present in the comic adap & novel) REALLY killed it for me. Famouseccles - you really do not know what you are talking about - obviously you were not there from the start mate ;-)

  • March 14, 2010, 9 p.m. CST

    And Order 66 scene is genius??!!

    by IndustryKiller!

    Its one of the worst moments in film history. The Jedi go down like clowns. Again pissing away continuity as Obi Wan clearly states Vader HUNTED DOWN the Jedi. not much hunting going on there, nor does Lucas infer in any way that there are a bunch of Jedi still left out there to hunt later. <P>The scenes of Jedi dying are shot like a sy fy movie of the week. I still remember the one with the blue chick running ahead of the Clone Trooper on that ridiculous looking blue screen vista, turning around and deflecting like 3 lasers before laughably slumping to her death. Priceless.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:03 p.m. CST

    BumLove

    by Geomancer21

    What does unknowingly making out with your brother have to do with with remembering an emotion from your dying mother? Bit different situations.<BR><BR>But if you must. if she does have latent Jedi abilities then since all individuals with those abilities can sense others that have them she could have just misinterpreted the sensation as attraction.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:03 p.m. CST

    No Im sorry

    by IndustryKiller!

    That was Ki Adi Mundi in that scene. Making even more ridiculous that a Jedi Master would die like Bond Villain Henchman #3. The blue chick was on the speeder bike, an equally ignoble and poorly shot death.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:09 p.m. CST

    The scene of Anakin and Padme is a great one

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    Lucas isn't much of an actor's director but he understands the language of film very acutely. This is why he was considered one of the most forward-thinking directors back in the 70's, and he employs those skills here. The scene in question conveys everything you need to know about Anakin's inner turmoil, using only mournful music, visual image and juxtaposition to convey meaning. This scene was not in the original script; Lucas likely cobbled it together afterwards and it works superbly. Anakin and Padme appear to be looking directly at each other over the vast expanse of Coruscant, as if silently conveying their thoughts to each other; of course they weren't doing that in the original order of scenes, but the editing makes it appear so. There's nothing 'cheeseball' about it - it has the pathos of silent cinema, and Portman and Christensen's lacklustre performances aren't an issue, since the moment was created with post-production tinkering (which Lucas has alway sbeen a whiz at) and not through acting. Lucas has employed his skills at editing to cut to the truth of the story he is trying to tell much more succesfully than his efforts through melodrama - though, there are good dialogue scenes in ROTS as well, namely the machiavellian opera scene and the jedi council ones. Those were written by the playwright Tom Stoppard, not Lucas. <p>Regardless, there are many of these types of scenes in the prequels and they're terrific. SW always worked best as a purely cinematic experience, and that quality was not abandoned in ep. 1 to 3; in fact, it's much more pronounced.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:11 p.m. CST

    BumLove - I didn't. This is a widely help opinion of

    by FamousEccles

    many stable, open minded fans. In fact, if I recall correctly Luke asks Leia about her "real mother" (marking this as the first time - on screen - we are told that Leia and her friends knew she was adopted by the Organas). Assuming that Leia's recollection of the "sad woman" was indeed Padme and that we know Padme died in child birth then Leia's memories are indeed of her time in the womb/birth and she retains these memories because of her latent Jedi powers. The Ewok village scene implies some confusion in Leia as to where or when these memories are from- which I believe she actually says are more feelings than anything. If you really pay attention to this scene it fits in nicely with how Padme actually dies. Knowing that Leia is indeed a Jedi can also be used to explain how she was able to resist torture in Episode IV - even though Lucas' intention at the time was to show her courage and resolve. The kiss in EMPIRE was written before Lucas had decided that Leia and Luke were siblings. It was written to advance the subplot of Han and Leia's romance. How does Lucas deal with it after ROTJ? He doesn't. Why? Because Luke and Leia never talk about it again. Why? Let us say you have the hots for the sexiest chick in your gang and once, in front of all your friends, she licks your tonsils and you goddamm enjoy it. Then one day, you discover that the sexy chick is the sister you never knew you had. Would you ever want to talk about it?

  • March 14, 2010, 9:12 p.m. CST

    Between IndustryKiller!s comments & Mr. Plinkett's review

    by CloneRanger

    Any glimmer of redemption with the prequels are officially done with me now. What little merch I still have left, are going on Ebay now - OT forever!

  • March 14, 2010, 9:13 p.m. CST

    Video of Order 66 deaths, "moment of genius"

    by IndustryKiller!

    http://www.youtube.com /watch?v=-fow5RUK_Q0I <P> Man watching it again for the first time in years I had forgotten just how terrible it was. I was wrong again about the blue chick, she just gets shot in the back like an imbecile and takes a prat fall right out of a high school theater production. It's by FAR my favorite in this ridiculous montage. If I were watching this before I saw the OT I would say "So the Jedi are a bunch of fucking clowns, who despite all their powers and ability to see the future fail to see the writing on the wall, and die with the BARE MINIMAL amount of resistance in sequences so silly they would make Roger Corman proud."

  • March 14, 2010, 9:20 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! - you do realise that STAR WARS is a

    by FamousEccles

    fantasy right? How is the notion that a Jedi baby can recalled it's feeling in it's mother's womb "pathetic"? This is a fantasy realm where law enforcing monks know kung fu and magic and carry laser swords. Wookies. Robots. Spaceships. Giant gangster slugs. Millions of soldiers created from the DNA of one man. Please tell me how my idea was far fetched in relation to these others? As to "which mother" - see the post above.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:22 p.m. CST

    Turd....I mean, really?

    by IndustryKiller!

    "Anakin and Padme appear to be looking directly at each other over the vast expanse of Coruscant, as if silently conveying their thoughts to each other"<P>Man, im sorry I gotta laugh, it sounds like you are describing the hammiest moment in some forgotten 1940's melodrama. Except instead of actors of gravitas like Bogart and Turner it's Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman. If I saw that written in a review of a film I hadn't yet seen I would cringe at teh very thought of it. if I then heard it was directed by Lucas, who visually dropped the ball completely in the Prequels, I would absolutely not see it. The ONLY reason a moment with characters staring out of a horizon wouldnt be over the top silly is because the characters doing it have built up that kind of credibility with the audience beforehand and the actors have sold the melodrama tone of the film (see Titanic for a good example of that). That is absolutely not the case in the prequels. What you described is just bad Shakespeare, my friend.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:24 p.m. CST

    Well I've officially given Famous enough rope to hang himself

    by IndustryKiller!

    "How is the notion that a Jedi baby can recalled it's feeling in it's mother's womb "pathetic"?"<P>He seriously asked that question. My job on that front is done.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:26 p.m. CST

    In fact famouseccles i think...

    by IndustryKiller!

    "The Jedi baby remembered it's mothers feelings from the womb." is the cinematic equivalent of "God put dinosaur bones in the ground to test our faith." as far as hilarious excuses go.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:28 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! - did you actually watch ROTS?

    by FamousEccles

    There are many Jedi left after Order 66. That was the main reason why Kenobi and Yoda returned to Coruscant. They went back to shut down the message coming from the Temple that was calling all Jedi to come home. I believe Kenobi alter the message order all survivors to run and hide. Plus, Anakin lead the attack on the Temple and Kenobi could assume that he also help Palpatine issue Order 66 (which by slaying Windu, he did).

  • March 14, 2010, 9:33 p.m. CST

    Fair enough famous

    by IndustryKiller!

    Like I said it's been some time, I could be wrong about remaining jedi. My point stands on the laughable awfulness of the Order 66 sequence though and the major jedi not putting up ANY fight.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:34 p.m. CST

    See how that works?

    by IndustryKiller!

    I have no problem admitting when I say something erroneous. Now let's see you do the same rather than reaching to absurd lengths to cover your logical fallacies.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:35 p.m. CST

    Genius.. Pure Genius

    by Sicuv Uyall

    Hilarious, on point, and at times disturbing (hope the cheerleaders are still alive!) Everything he points out about the plot, the characters, and the inner workings behind the scenes (loved how he noted that all of Lucas' employees are like timid little rabbits around him) seem dead on. I actually seem to think that Lucas has a little disdain towards his creation, because he is powerhouse financially, the series has boxed him into a corner creatively. Think of James Caan's character from Misery, who wants to kill off his character because he's tired of being known only for that series of novels. Lucas is probably trying to do the same because he hates the universe he created. Why else would turn the Force, which inspired so many fans in the 70's and 80's, into bunch of scientifically explained yet lame midichlorians. Also, the review, being great as it is, is just like my response... it takes too much time to ponder over something that should not deserve this much attention. I mean 7 parts.. c'mon!! My hate for the prequels should be kept at a mininum, but i can't wait for his next review!!

  • March 14, 2010, 9:36 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! - is that it? I actually thought you'd be able a

    by FamousEccles

    able to argue your point, but you seem to have been crippled by the fact that STAR WARS is fantasy movie.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Through The Force, things you will see.

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    "Through The Force, things you will see. Other places. The future...the past…old friends long gone." The notion that Leia sees - or rather, feels - Padme through the Force is completely consistent with the above quote. As for Leia kissing Luke in Ep.V, remember that that wasn't a signal towards Luke, it was a signal towards Han.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:39 p.m. CST

    There are shorts about a Jedi Baby

    by MacReady452

    it's called Space Baby on Funny or Die

  • March 14, 2010, 9:39 p.m. CST

    I always thought Lucas directed TPM this way....

    by Orionsangels

    The actors were in front of a green screen and Lucas just told the actors, what was in the scene and what to say, wait it was like that, wasn't?

  • March 14, 2010, 9:39 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! Order66 - your opinion of it is

    by FamousEccles

    your opinion. You think it's awful? that's fine. My point was that it does not disrupt the continuity o0f the Saga.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:40 p.m. CST

    Revenge of the Sith

    by SavageJuicebox

    Anakin and Obi Wan jumping around on Megaman platforms in their final fight. Frankenstien Vader breaking his bonds and yelling "NOOOOOOOOOO". Movie ruined, all redeeming qualities dragged down with these scenes.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:40 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller!

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    You and I have had some disagreements over the years but I gotta say, in this fight, you are absolutely right. There is just no getting around the fact that the SW prequels are duds.<P>IndustryKiller! He fights...with passion!

  • March 14, 2010, 9:41 p.m. CST

    Mr Poop

    by Sicuv Uyall

    when you say "traditional/cliched story archetypes", do you mean anything containing a coherent story, memorable characters, and suspense?

  • March 14, 2010, 9:41 p.m. CST

    This thread is funny.

    by Orionsangels

    It brought back the ghost of the infamous TPM thread of 99. 11 years later the argument continues, haha!

  • March 14, 2010, 9:41 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! "admitting when I say something erroneous"

    by FamousEccles

    - if you recall I beat you to that earlier when I recanted my statement that TWO TOWERS was a mess.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:41 p.m. CST

    Leia really made Han jealous.....

    by BumLove

    ...when he entered her hut on Endor and found Luke thrusting his meat saber into her poom puff while she squealed like a Jawa.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:44 p.m. CST

    Famous I don't have to argue

    by IndustryKiller!

    absurdities that you are fucking making up wholesale under the excuse of "It's a FAAAANTASY MOOOOVIE. It could happen!" I made my point clear, you are MAKING SHIT UP about Leia reading her mothers mind in the womb. It sounds fucking ridiculous and its a COMPLETELY unsupported insane assumption.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:44 p.m. CST

    TheHumanBeingAndFish - dead on the money there.

    by FamousEccles

    IndustryKiller! the particular Jedi ability I refer to is already referenced in the Saga.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:45 p.m. CST

    The scene of Anakin and Padme is a great one response..

    by Sicuv Uyall

    Probably Spielberg's idea...

  • March 14, 2010, 9:47 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! - I am not "making shit up"? Lucas

    by FamousEccles

    did that already. TheHumanBeingAndFish posted the quote above referring to Jedi abilities in recalling memories.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:49 p.m. CST

    hey, peter graves just died

    by Shitty_O_Cuntfuck

  • March 14, 2010, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Plus, Luke on Dagobah

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    Plus, it explains how Luke felt that there was "something familiar" about Dagobah. He had previously seen or felt Dagobah *through the Force* - which is how I've always interpreted it. The suggestion that Luke should have been born on Dagobah, or something, would have been cheap, IMO.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:51 p.m. CST

    That's not a support of mind reading babies

    by IndustryKiller!

    That's talking about the ability to communicate with dead friends like Obi Wan does with Luke. That is obviously not the case with Leia and her mother. She would have to be directly remembering her time in the womb you apologist idiot. There is ZERO support of that kind of inane plot point other than "The Jedi have powers, why can't that be one of them?" And you would think if Leia was remembering her time int eh womb she wouldn't say "She died when I was very young." given that that would be the understatement of the century. Very young? More like ten seconds old. Leia says it without an ounce of irony or confusion given that she has no idea she comes from Jedi stock and it would be pretty fucking weird to any person that they can remember floating in amniotic fluid and feeling her mothers feelings.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:59 p.m. CST

    Plinkett is awesome

    by MurderMostFowl

    His reviews of all the prequels and several episodes o Star Trek are DEAD ON and so fucking funny. There are parts of Episode 1 that he is so right about, your brain tells you its funny, but then you just want to be sad because its so blindingly obvious that George Lucas didn't even ponder these things. <BR><BR> The only thing that Plinkett does wrong in his commentaries is his horrible throw away jokes about killing his wife and keeping someone captive in the basement. Not funny at all.... not that you couldn't do that funny, just that it isn't funny. His other material is so good, it just take you out of it all. <BR><BR> Plinkett, if you read this, edit out all that crap and you'll see your reviews go down as the most poignant and funny commentary of Sci Fi man.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:59 p.m. CST

    the "something familiar"

    by IndustryKiller!

    Is mroe likely Luke relating a lonely planet in the middle of nowhere to his upbringing on Tatooine. He says it casually, not mysteriously, like it's something he can't quantify. <P>And saying "something familiar" is a world away from remembering details about a person from the womb. Again, Leia is obviously talking about interactions she experienced. It wasnt nearly as vague as "Something familiar", and in that case why wouldnt Luke remember it too? He was in thesame fucking womb after all.

  • March 14, 2010, 9:59 p.m. CST

    No

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    No, Leia doesn't need to remember Padme "in the womb". She sees or feels Padme through the Force - she sees/feels the past. Over time, she's sen images of Padme - the past - through the Force. That's completely consistent with the quote from Yoda. It's established elsewhere that the Force can give Force-sensitive people visions of the future and the past, or of far away places, without them having had training. Luke has seen Dagobah; Anakin "can see things before they happen, that's why he appears to have such quick reflexes". Plus, Luke - with no training - is able to pick up a light saber using the Force. Look, I didn't like Jar Jar or Anakin as a James Dean-like whiny brat either, but trying to see plot holes where there are none is a bit silly.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:01 p.m. CST

    TheHumanBeingAndFish - Luke on Dagobah

    by FamousEccles

    I had always thought that the Prequels would show us ObiWan bringing Luke to Yoda on Dagobah as a baby/infant en route to Tatooine and the Lars family. I now think the "familiar" is Yoda and the "like something out of a dream" is maybe that Luke could subconciously sense Yoda "watching him"

  • March 14, 2010, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Again, no.

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    "Leia is obviously talking about interactions she experienced." What? No she obviously is not. She says "Just images, really. Feelings". Just as vague as "something familiar". "He says it casually, not mysteriously, like it's something he can't quantify." No, he says it's *exactly* like it's something he can't quantify.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:05 p.m. CST

    So she invents memories?

    by IndustryKiller!

    She is specifically relating an ACTUAL memory of her mother Fish, she doesn't say she had visions of her mother. That's a large distinction. And again when she says "She died when I was very young" she isnt saying "she died in child birth." Again, Thats an incredibly large distinction. You can philosophize all you want about what the force can and cant do, the specifics dont support you. Just because you can personally wish it away with your overactive imagination doesnt make it not a MASSIVE plot hole. I cant believe Ive even talking about this apologist nonsense.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:06 p.m. CST

    FamousEccles

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    "I now think the "familiar" is Yoda and the "like something out of a dream" is maybe that Luke could subconciously sense Yoda "watching him"" That's possible too. I just always figured he's had vision of Dagobah through the Force.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:07 p.m. CST

    Mr. Plinkett’s Review is Hilarious

    by cgih8r

    His review on Episode I is more entertaining than the movie was. I'm just boggled by the fact that Lucas is shown discussing what was wrong with Episode I and saying that it was too late to change it, but then he did not learn from his mistakes when going forward on the next two? Plinkett prob has the best explanation which is that Lucas does not have his ideas being challenged anymore. The shortcomings of his prequels show the level of importance collaboration and criticism have in the process of making a good movie.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:13 p.m. CST

    Cool stuff you learn from the novelizations:

    by gooseud

    1. Up until the very last second, Dooku thought he was going to simply throw the fight to Anakin, pretend to lose, and be captured. From there, he would claim to be corrupted by the Sith, recant, and gradually turn the Jedi into his own personal army, with Anakin as his general. Of course, this plan of action went out the window when Anakin started legit kicking his ass for real, as Palapatine always knew he would. Right up until the final second, Dooku always thought it was all part of the plan. 2. Palapatine had his lightsaber hidden in his office the whole time, buried in a statue made onf unscannable metal. When he finds out Windu is coming, he activates it, as it starts melting its way out of the super-dense statue. This is in fact how Kit Fisto goes down, Palapatine calls the lightsaber to him, striking him down from behind as it flies through the air.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:17 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    "She is specifically relating an ACTUAL memory of her mother" No, she obviously is NOT talking about an actual memory when she says "just images, really, feelings". At least, when I talk about an actual memory I don't describe it as "just images, really, feelings". "she doesn't say she had visions of her mother" images = visions. AGAIN, "Through The Force, things you will see. Other places. The future...the past…old friends long gone." "She died when I was very young" obviously doesn't refer to a specific memory, otherwise she wouldn't have said "just images, really, feelings", it's just an explanation of what happened to her mother. So, the specifics DO support me. The notion that Leia remembers Padme through the Force is totally consistent with everything we learn about the Force (see quotes I gave), and everything we learn about what Force-sensitive people are capable of even without training (see quotes and specifics I gave).

  • March 14, 2010, 10:20 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! - why are you getting so so upset

    by FamousEccles

    and name calling? where you bullied as a child? not by me I assure you. The scene clearly states Leia memories are "more images and feelings". Leia says she "very young", but if she has no actual memories then it can be argued that she could have been just a baby. We do not know what Leia's knows, or what Bail told her, about her past. Maybe she just doesn't know when Padme died. Bail took her as his daughter to keep her from harm. This no doubt ran to lying to Leia herself about her origins, lest the she unknowingly reveal herself. "Womb memories" are no more ridiculous than Wookies, the Force or Yoda himself. I'm merely pointing out that nothing about Padme's death contradicts the little we know of her from the OT. Leia believes she died when she was very young. For all we know Bail twisted the truth just like ObiWan does with Luke.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:27 p.m. CST

    EP 3 sealed the deal

    by stuttering_bucktooth_perv

    Some of you state that EP 1 and EP 2 were garbage (they were) but state that EP 3 was good. You didn't mind Hayden's rant when Obi-Wan showed up at Mustafar? HAHA it was poor as was JEJ's "NOOOOO"! and Amidala's apparent death due to a broken heart!! Absolute rubbish!!!

  • March 14, 2010, 10:28 p.m. CST

    Thats not how Luke takes it Human

    by IndustryKiller!

    Luke has ZERO recollection of Padme because he never knew her he says. So Leia gets random Force images and Luke doesn't? In fact Luke gets no images of his family at all? Oooo just more of the mystery of Human's Force philosophy. When Leia says just images really...feelings, it's clearly just meant to be the way a small child recalls a parent long since past, it's not meant to be taken literally. She says it as a brush off to his question. it even says in the script that she is surprised by his insistence and that is when she actually takes the time to expound. To say that Leia is talking about randomly implanted Force memories that Luke bizarrely doesn't have is twisting the dialogue and implications. If Leia had never met her mother she wouldn't speak about her as if she had. And the "old friends long gone" line is, again, CLEARLY referring to ones ability to come back in ghost form via the Force. Not the ability to think you've met someone that you haven't

  • March 14, 2010, 10:31 p.m. CST

    the Lightsabre fight in Palpatine's chamber

    by FamousEccles

    was disappointing. Palpatine would have come across as much more badass if the Jedi had put up more of a fight but I think that is down to the fact that it was added at the very last minute. As cool as all the lightsabre action is the only real kick ass fights all involve Ewan McGregor or where Yoda whips it out.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:34 p.m. CST

    Jesus-- STILL with the retcon complaints?

    by StarWarsRedux

    Honestly, those never bothered me. If anything, I've always thought it to be kinda cool that Lucas doesn't always adhere to the backstories talked about in previous films, letting stuff he wrote decades ago paint him into a corner. Really, I see no reason to complain when his contradictions give us some of the best material-- Vader as Luke's father instead of his mortal enemy, Qui-Gon the maverick Jedi discovering Anakin instead of Obi-Wan, pregnant Padme being force-choked by the father of her children instead of holding Leia in a rocking chair. If you think that's bad, you're probably still pissed that the Jedi weren't fighting Mandalorians in the Clone War, even though that's what you read on the back of the package for Boba Fett's action-figure.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:36 p.m. CST

    Eccles-- You gotta admit, though...

    by StarWarsRedux

    ...the shots of Palp and Mace fighting, especially in the window, were absolutely CLASSIC. One of my favorite moments from all of "Star Wars".

  • March 14, 2010, 10:36 p.m. CST

    I just got back from December 18, 2010 and...

    by Julius Dithers

    ...saw the stillbirth known as Tron Legacy yesterday. Fuck you, Lisberger!

  • March 14, 2010, 10:40 p.m. CST

    Two things that bothered me most...

    by cgih8r

    1. The look of the films. The original trilogy had a great look because it just felt dirty and exposed. It had a flavor and real set pieces. Episodes II & III looked like they were shot entirely indoors. The computer graphics made everything too clean and perfect looking, especially the clone army. You just can't beat the flawed gritty look of practical effects seen in the original trilogy. There is one quick shot in episode III where Obi One is on that iguana thing and he gets shot down. He plunges into water, REAL WATER and it looked great to my eyes because it was all real! It made me realize how cool the movies would have looked if they used more real sets, and practical effects. Even if it means you cannot do as much with a scene I think the authenticity that it adds is totally worth it. Less is more. 2. The acting was so robotic and stale. Like Plinket said, it lacked emotion. And that's it, if they had changed either of those two elements, I would have forgiven Lucas for the plot holes as long as it builds emotion I don't care. I'm sure there will be more Star Wars movies in the future.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:42 p.m. CST

    My favorite part of Plinkett's review...

    by mortsleam

    When he in about three sentences points out and fixes the central issues with Lucas' story. All it took was for someone to look at the story, say, this doesn't make sense, here's how it should go. Voila. A better movie.<p>Oh and get rid of Jake Lloyd and start the movie with Anakin as a teenager. Again, I've always considered the IMAX edit of Attack of the Clones as episode 1, Genndy Tartakovsky's Clone Wars as episode 2, and Revenge of the Sith as Episode 3, if someone took a hacksaw and some duct tape to it and shored it up into a believable story.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:43 p.m. CST

    Julius Dithers

    by gonkdroid

    please elaborate

  • March 14, 2010, 10:51 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    "So Leia gets random Force images and Luke doesn't?" Apparently. Leia has some Force connection to her mother, and Luke to his father. Why would this be a problem? It's magic, after all. "it's clearly just meant to be the way a small child recalls a parent long since past" Which in no way excludes the Force explanation. Leia has some vague unspecific memories of her mother, doesn't really know where they come from, and was only told that her mother died when she was very little. Why are you so opposed to the notion that those images came from the Force? Like I said, that notion is consistent with everything we know about the Force and the abilities of Force-sensitive people even without training. "And the "old friends long gone" line is, again, CLEARLY referring to ones ability to come back in ghost form via the Force." Maybe. But "the past" CLEARLY refers to THE PAST, as in the time period when Padme was alive.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:55 p.m. CST

    The biggest issue is no emotional connection.

    by Daredrummer

    There's so many complaints I have about eps 1 & 2, but at the end of the day I think the bigest problem really is the lack of emotional content. Everyone really did feel as hollow as the CG around them. And Anakin was handled SO badly. He was just a little bitch from the start, it always seemed like it was obvious that he was the problem. We're always TOLD that he's a hero, but we never SEE it. All we see is him being a defiant, selfish asshole. We never got to actually LIKE him, so that when he fell to the Dark Side, instead of it feeling like a horrible tragedy that this noble hero fell, it was like, "oh, well THAT'S no surprise, that's what you get, dick"...

  • March 14, 2010, 10:56 p.m. CST

    THE DIVISIONS RUN DEEP OVER STAR WARS

    by BringingSexyBack

    But thankfully not for (500) Days of Summer, which we all agree is flawless.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:57 p.m. CST

    the "old friends long gone" line is not referring

    by FamousEccles

    to force ghosts. the WHOLE quote is Yoda talking about a Jedi's ability to see beyond the confines of time. Hence, why look sees his friends being tortured in the near future. Therefore, if a Jedi can see the future (and change it as implied by Yoda stating that the future is "always in motion"), then it is no stretch to assume they can also see the past (which is actual set in stone). Luke had zero memories/feelings of Padme - I guess you could likewise ask why Luke had a connection to Anakin (that he clearly didn't know he had until he found out who Vader really was) and Leia couldn't sense it in all her dealings with him. Yet, Luke had a connection to Anakin (that Leia clearly did not feel) hence his desire to save him. Perhaps if Anakin hadn't gone bad, Luke would be closer to Anakin than his mother, and vice versa for Leia. Father and son closer than Mother and Son, etc. Lucas isn't the only Hollywood writer to do this. In TDK, Jim Gordon favours his son over his daughter.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:57 p.m. CST

    And that review was awesome!

    by Daredrummer

    It did well to chronicle alot of the poor writing and nonsense, such as referring to the pair as Jedi Knights at the beginning crawl, as well as the hilarious point about them splitting up to go down to the surface at the beginning.

  • March 14, 2010, 10:59 p.m. CST

    Why the prequels sucked, film by film....

    by thecomedian

    Phantom Menace- Everybody hates Jake Lloyd and Jar Jar Binks but the main idiotic thing Lucas did was not following the mold of the original trilogy and having Obi Wan and Qui Gon discover a teenage Anikan on Tatooine. Lucas tried way too had to push this film on little kids who were bored out of their minds and ran in droves to see The Matrix instead. He should have started the film with a teenage Ani (which would totally parallel Luke in Ep IV) that way the romance and everything else wouldn't be so forced and awkward. <br> <br> Attack of the Clones: Great action, great light saber battle and Yoda fight at the end. Lousy directing, shitty acting and they did the same kiddie friendly bullshit with Bobba Fett. They fucked up Bobba Fett's origin so bad. They could have made him Anikan's friend and essentially the Han Solo of the prequels who fucks up and goes evil too. Shit they could have even done one better and revealed that he's actually Han's father. Would have been a nice parallel. Instead we get another stupid little kid. <br> <br> Revenge of the Sith: Better acting, better performances. We actually believe Padme and Anikan are in love. Hayden Christiansen's only horrible scenes are the ones with Palpatine and that's mostly because of the shitty writing. The thing that sucked most about ROTS though was how they wasted Vader. We waited over half a decade and sat through all the shitty acting to see him put that helmet on. The Lava Pit should have been the beginning of Act 3. The last 20 mins should have been Vader just killing Jedi left in right in the suit and Obi Wan having a horrified,"who the fuck is that guy" look on his face. James Earl Jones deserved better than delivering the most laughable line ever.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:04 p.m. CST

    StarWarsRedux, sorry I should have specified the

    by FamousEccles

    scene I refer to as disappointing is Palpatine taking out the Jedi Masters - not the one on one with Mace (which does look cool, imagine how much better it could've been with more than a few hours to put together.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:07 p.m. CST

    QUINT, DID YOU FORGET THAT I POSTED THE PLINKETT REVIEW.......

    by TehCreepyThinMan

    All over this worthless site? Or how about the fact that I sent a link to Knowles that he didn't even acknowledge?

  • March 14, 2010, 11:07 p.m. CST

    Sounds like Buffalo Bill

    by MANNZILLA

    it puts the lotion on it's back!

  • March 14, 2010, 11:09 p.m. CST

    IndustryKiller is right...

    by THAT__SAID

    The whole 'Leia memory of her mother' thing is a plothole, Lucas basically forgot about that scene they filmed in ROTJ. <p> Get over it.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:10 p.m. CST

    thecomedian - Boba Fett as Han's father??

    by FamousEccles

    awesome idea, but he'd have to CGI Harrison Ford in all three OT films to look half Maori.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:13 p.m. CST

    Eccles, I knew what you meant. No prob.

    by StarWarsRedux

    I'm just saying-- I really dig Mace Vs. Palp. I also love the build-up to it, very tense, very good character stuff, especially for Lucas. His coverage of the deaths of the other Jedi is a little too brief, but I can live with that. At least it isn't shot in the shaky-cam style that Abrams and Greengrass are addicted to. <p>Also, am I the only one who's impressed by the sequences Lucas more-or-less concocts on the seat of his pants during reshoots? The factory sequence in AOTC, the Opera scene and Mace Vs. Palp-- if he really does just make it up as he goes along, he sure as hell does it better than anyone.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:14 p.m. CST

    THAT__SAID, no, IndustryKiller! is wrong.

    by FamousEccles

    Just too upset to admit it.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:16 p.m. CST

    StarWarsRedux, making it up on the fly is not a

    by FamousEccles

    concept some people here can grasp. you might won't keep such heresy to yourself least they reach for the pitch forks.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:16 p.m. CST

    I'm sorry, I really don't think that Lucas knew about Leia/Luke

    by Daredrummer

    Honestly. I think it was just a damsel in distress situation, as evinced by the sexual undertone between the two. It's fairly known that they expected SW to flop, so I doubt he's planned any of that out, amongst a few other plot points. It's pretty obvious if you can go watch them with some degree of neutrality.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:20 p.m. CST

    Obi Wan should've been a Jedi Knight from the start..

    by Thanos0145

    who found Anakin himself, and played by Kenneth Branagh (remember those rumors). Anakin should've been exactly Luke's age in Episode One, not some eight year old kid.<p>The scientific explanation of the force (midichlorians) was one of many horrible ideas in the prequels. Not defining what the Force is/was would've been better.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:22 p.m. CST

    Thanos0145

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    The concept of "midichlorians" is not, by any stretch of the imagination, an explanation of the Force, scientific or otherwise. The Force in the prequels is the same Force as the Force in the OT.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:24 p.m. CST

    @Thecomedian

    by cgih8r

    Dude, I really like those ideas minus the Boba Fett as Solo's father, everything else would have made those movies tons better and more memorable. Too bad you couldn't have been on the Lucas team! Aaaah what a waste.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:25 p.m. CST

    The prequels had many problems...

    by KEVIN_COSTNERS_RECYCLED_PISS

    But for me I just can't get over how laughably bad the dialogue is throughout these movies. I remember watching TPM when it came out and in the first 15 minutes you had those stupid fucking asian sterotype sounding aliens saying "What's the matter are you braindead?" followed soon after by the 'wise' jedi Qui Gon saying "You almost got us killed! Are you brainless?" <p> Lucas definately saved the 'best' for last however with this classic exchange between Anakin and Padme... <p> You are so... beautiful. <p> It's only because I'm so in love. <p> No. No, it's because I'm so in love with you. <p> Then love has blinded you? <p> Well...that's not exactly what I meant. <p> But it's probably true. <p> Seriously George... What. The. Fuck? <p> By the time we got to Darth Vader yelling Nooooooooo as if straight out of an episode of The Simpsons I had lost all faith completely.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:30 p.m. CST

    FamousEccles...

    by THAT__SAID

    Whatever man, it just sounds like you're making up your own movie logic to me.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:41 p.m. CST

    Humanbeingfish, again with excuses.

    by IndustryKiller!

    "Why would this be a problem? It's magic, after all."<P>what a wonderful cure all excuse for any point you might make. It's all just amorphous magic. Leia has implanted memories of her mother and Luke has none? Magic! Is that really the point you've gotten to? It's all just magic anyway? Ugh. Sorry but nothing in the Force, other than it being a spiritual guide, says anything about implanted familial memories. I think my point get's proven right there with bullshit like that but I'll continue anyway.<P> The past comment refers that someone might be able to SEE the past, not think they lived in it. "Do you remember your mother?" "A little." So Leia remembers her mother. Or, by your logic, she has been fooled by Force related images into thinking so. She either she met her mother or she didn't. Period. And the intent of the scene is obviously not that Leia is incorrectly recanting a story about remembering her mother. Only a complete revisionist would twist and shoehorn it that way to fit a retcon. It's a heartbreaking scene because Luke is lamenting the family he never knew and asking Leia to tell him about the mother only she could have known. And that is the way the scene is meant to be taken, ANY OTHER WAY robs it of impact. You could twist it to mean that Leia is talking about her adopted mother the same way you are if she is incorrectly remembering, not her mother, but images that popped into her head as a baby, but it's fucking childish ridiculous screenwriting.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:47 p.m. CST

    And another thing

    by IndustryKiller!

    Luke had no overt force connection to his father until they met in person and clashed and then Vader purposely directed that connection. This was also after Jedi training on Luke's part. There were no childhood visions of Amakin popping into Lukes head. And besides Anakin was the one with the Force power to begin with, not Padme. So you shoehorning in a, just revealed in this talkback, force connection between Leia and Padme is nothing at all like the one between Luke and Vader. But keep reaching I can't wait to see what you come up with next.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:50 p.m. CST

    Midichlorians is ridiculous because

    by IndustryKiller!

    Knowing that people with Force powers could rise up, if Vader and Palpatine had a tangible way to test that wouldn't they have mandatory Midichlorian tests for all children born under the realm of the Empire? I mean shit the test takes two seconds. It's pretty clearly not on their minds to even attempt something like that in the OT. Why? Again more retcon garbage from Lucas.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:54 p.m. CST

    KEVIN_COSTNERS_RECYCLED_PISS, the dialogue is

    by FamousEccles

    no different to the OT. Even at it's best in ESB between Ford and Fisher it is still pretty damn chessy.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:56 p.m. CST

    This talkback is hilarious

    by MajorFrontbum

    You people seem to know a hell of a lot, about these movies that apparently "suck" and "suck hard". Lucas has you all by the genitals; you're still talking about his films, ten years after the first one was released. I'm sure he'd thank you all personally for the free publicity here and elsewhere, but I hear he's to busy shifting mountains of money around. If the film/s really were shit, then they'd be forgotten about in a heart beat, not quoted verbatim in talk backs like this one, ten years later. All this fuss, over some 1940's retro-inspired idea, with some updated FX. You guys really are entertaining. Keep it going for another ten years, please.

  • March 14, 2010, 11:56 p.m. CST

    Favorite bad moment from the Prequels...

    by BurnHollywood

    Anakin confesses that he just slaughtered an entire village of sandpeople to Padme in AotC, children and all, and aside from some concern, she still continues their relationship...<p> "Aw fuggit, Lil' Himmler...it's not like they were HUMAN or something!"

  • March 14, 2010, 11:57 p.m. CST

    TheHumanBeingAndFish:Qui Gon sending Anakin's blood..

    by Thanos0145

    sample to Obi Wan so he could get his "midichlorian count" wasn't a scientific explation of the Force?<P>Lucas needed a scientific explanation of the Force so he could state that Anakin would one day be more powerful in the use of the Force than even Yoda.<p>By Shmi Skywalker telling Qui Gon that Anakin was a virgin birth, there was no need to introduce the midichlorian count to state the obvious. (I guess George's "yes" men were too afraid to point it out to him.)

  • March 14, 2010, 11:59 p.m. CST

    The Leia memories debate

    by Star Hump

    (and I'm with IndustryKiller on this one)is another sterling example of how Lucas ignored what he had created before in favor of the newest plot idea that had popped into his head. Making Vader Luke's father instead of his killer(as stated by Kenobi in the original film) is another clear-cut example.<p> Of course no one expected the guy to have the whole damned saga tightly plotted out, but a detail-oriented writer would at the very least backtrack to ensure the plot threads line up. That's why, in my view, this making-it-up-as-he-goes thing Lucas consistently repeated was so damaging the narrative. It's shoddy writing, period.

  • March 15, 2010, midnight CST

    TYPO

    by Star Hump

    *Making Vader Luke's father instead of his FATHER'S killer(as stated by Kenobi in the original film) is another clear-cut example.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:03 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    "It's all just amorphous magic. " Why yes, that's what the Force is. Magic. And, some of the rules have been laid out several times: for instance, through the Force, you can see the past. "Sorry but nothing in the Force, other than it being a spiritual guide, says anything about implanted familial memories." Why are you suggesting that having images of your dead mother is inconsistent or impossible, in Star Wars? "And the intent of the scene is obviously not that Leia is incorrectly recanting a story about remembering her mother." AGAIN, Leia remembers "just images, really, feelings". That constitutes "a little". Nobody said anything about being incorrect. "t's a heartbreaking scene because Luke is lamenting the family he never knew and asking Leia to tell him about the mother only she could have known. And that is the way the scene is meant to be taken, ANY OTHER WAY robs it of impact." Ehm .... now I know you're just playing. That's not how the scene is "supposed to be taken". "but images that popped into her head as a baby" I never said that images popped into her head as a baby, why on earth would you assume anything like that? What a strange person you are, concocting straw men like that! Leia says she just has images and feelings of her mother, when her mother died only moments after she was born, and babies don't form episodic memories. So, it there anything that could explain those events? Why yes, there is: the Force. Problem solved - and in a cohesive, internally consistent way, no less. Yet folks like you scream "plot hole!", getting all emotional over a series of flicks aimed at preteens. It's like you *want* there to be plotholes, and the disproportional emotional tone of your posts suggests as much. Now, why is that, I wonder?

  • March 15, 2010, 12:04 a.m. CST

    And Star Hump at least Lucas had the decency

    by IndustryKiller!

    to Have Obi Wan justify his earlier comments to Luke in ROTJ. With this Padme's death bullshit he just threw it all to the wind, which is even more impactful because as you can see guys will make this ludicrous shit up in their head and we get force implanted memories and my personal favorite, babies gaining force feelings in the womb. Can you imagine if Lucas had stated that in the film? We'd all be having a laugh at Lucas' expense.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:04 a.m. CST

    BOB ORCI WRITES BETTER THAN LUCAS

    by BringingSexyBack

    "Oh no you di'int," you say? <P> "Oh yes I did," I say.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:07 a.m. CST

    George is a fucking Butt Hurt Manchild.

    by conspiracy

    Let me say this for the 1,000 time George Lucas went to Shit when his wife left him for a cameraman, and he Hermited himself in Marin with his adopted rug rats and a cadre of sycophant yes men.</p><p>By 1982 George had just been kicked to the curb...and had more money than the fucking Catholic Church. He licked his wounds and crawled inside that estate with his kids and that was the end of that. George HATES Star Wars...blames it for destroying his marriage. George is spoiled...the fame and money did that too him, of course severing yourself from the adult world, and adult relationships for several years didn't fucking help. Ewoks, and Willow, and Roger Roger robots and fart jokes...George has said he bounced ideas off his brood and thought of them when he made the prequels. His kids must all be fucking retarded.</p><p>The George of the early 70s was fucking girls..having beers, racing his cars, and made movies that entertained kids while not insulting adults. Now...just look at the shit he pumps out. Crystal Skull Fuck was a money grab...and I'm still not convinced they didn't intentionally made it bad as a big "Fuck You" for "The fans". </p><p>Can't wait to see what his current mind set brings to Red Tail..."Shooo Weee Boss....Weessa gonna fire up dat Nat See real fines like yas see?" I'm smelling Oscar.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:09 a.m. CST

    Too many Prequel apologists!

    by jimbojones123

    Wow, it is like troll central. This many geeks could never like the PT. You trolls that think ROTS is pretty good need to get a life and quit screwing around with the rest of us.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:10 a.m. CST

    while we're all reminiscing on Episode 1

    by MurderMostFowl

    The top 10 things horribly wrong with the prequels ( not in any order, and many covered in depth by PLinkett ) <BR><BR> 1. Metachlorians. That one line singlehandedly ruining the message and point of the Force in episodes 4,5,6 <BR> 2. Yoda fight scenes... he should have been such a badass to not even need a lightsaber, and not fight actively flipping around like an idiot.<BR> 3.C3p0 made by ankin was absolutely lame. If anything C3p0 should have been Padme's protocol droid on her ship... one of dozens. that would make a ton more sense... so much so that I bet it was in one of the drafts <BR> 4. R2D2 with jets. What the fuck. This was retard write yourself out of a hole stuff at its worst <BR> 5. Jar jar and alll of the gungans... useless. Why not have the Naboo fight, didja think of that?<BR> 6. Anikin's mom. She should not have existed. Anikin shoudl have been an orphan and not known his family at all.Why the hell didn't he go back and get her? <BR> 7. Virgin birth. oh come on. Why even go there? It's a useless detail for a manufactured character. *IF* they had explored the deeper meaning of the force again and the tease we get from palpatine in the opera scene throughout the movie I might have bought this.<BR> 8. Age gap in padme and anikin. Padme should have been in her 20's and Anakin 16 or 17. So he can grow into a "man" in the next film and have the same effect. There's never any real sexual tension in the movies. <BR> 9. The insane number of utterly pointless battles and CGI. <BR> 10. Quigon jinn, darth maul, and all the other one shot pointless characters in the films. Seriously? We couldn't think of anyone reoccuring? It's just the "bosses" at the end of the video game levels? Is this what we've been reduced to?<BR><BR> I'm not the first to point any of these out, and many other people have said them so much more elequently, but I'm on a rant

  • March 15, 2010, 12:10 a.m. CST

    BSB...I can't choose between Orci and Lucas...

    by conspiracy

    It's the difference between being drawn and quartered or dipped in boiling oil upside down.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:10 a.m. CST

    Thanos0145

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    No, the Midichlorian count isn't a scientific explanation of the Force. In that scene, they're merely used as proxy for someone's Force abilities. That does not, in any way, shape or form, change the nature of the Force.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:11 a.m. CST

    Let the record show i've wittled Human down to

    by IndustryKiller!

    "So, it there anything that could explain those events? Why yes, there is: the Force."<P>The implication there being that the force planted memories of Padme in Leias head as a baby. And that is explained away by "it's the Force". Which can now apparently do absolutely anything and be used to justify ANY leap of logic in the prequels. "It's the Force" Considering Leia explicitly states she remembers her mother ("Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?" "A Little") and in no other time have we seen anyone have an implanted memory from before they were born by The Force, this can only be considered a total fabrication of information given to justify a retcon.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:14 a.m. CST

    POINT TAKEN CONSPIRACY

    by BringingSexyBack

  • March 15, 2010, 12:14 a.m. CST

    Sorry but it does change the force Human

    by IndustryKiller!

    Do the midichlorians give you more mastery over the force because you are born with them? or are they planted in you by the force? It's never explained. Either way it's a biological agent added to a spiritual being. That changes things.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:19 a.m. CST

    The idea that the force was a metaphysical being

    by IndustryKiller!

    I use the word being for lack of a better one, is part of the allure of it all. it goes beyond biology. It goes straight to the very building block of your soul. Some immeasurable. The fact that it may now be beholden to this very tangible biological element makes it less appealing for most of us. If you don't care thats fine, but you can't blame us for being pissed.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:20 a.m. CST

    The Three Jedi

    by Star Hump

    I know having Vader turn out to be Luke's father was one of the all-time great surprises in cinema history, but man, I wish the next 5 films after Star Wars would have stuck with Kenobi's original explanation to Luke.<p> The prequels would open with the three Jedi - Kenobi (about 50 or so), Anakin Skywalker (35) and a young, somewhat emotionally unstable new Jedi named Vader (25). They are the best of friends and formidable warriors, Skywalker being the best pilot in the galaxy, ala Kenobi's description.<p> Enter Padme Amadala for conflict. There is a triangle between her, Skywalker and Vader. Forbidden, secret love, naturally. She is torn between them and Vader is consumed with jealousy, igniting his fall to the dark side.<p> You end the second prequel film with young Vader murdering Anakin Skywalker and becoming the cyborg Darth Vader. All by the manipulations of the twisted Emperor, of course.<p> You then open the third film with Darth Vader in his prime hunting down the remaining Jedi, all to Kenobi's increasing horror. The film ends with the decimation of the Jedi, Padme's death, the birth of Luke and Kenobi's exile on Tatooine. (No Luke and Leia brother/sister stuff for me, thanks. Leia is just an unrelated young royal living on Alderaan.)<p> That's how I wanted to see the pre-story of Star Wars.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:20 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    "The implication there being that the force planted memories of Padme in Leias head as a baby." Stop making such odd straw man arguments. I never said that the Force gave Leia visions of Padme "when she was a baby", and have indicated as such in the post you're responding to. If you can only argue by making straw men, you're making my case for me. "Considering Leia explicitly states she remembers her mother ("Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?" "A Little")" And Leia qualifies "a little" as "Just images, really, feelings". You still haven't explained, despite asking several times, why it would be impossible for Leia to get her memories via the Force, despite the fact that it's completely consistent with what Yoda says.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:20 a.m. CST

    MAYBE THE ORGANAS SHOWED BABY LEIA VIDEOS OF PADME

    by BringingSexyBack

  • March 15, 2010, 12:22 a.m. CST

    It's not the end

    by watch_the_world_burn

    People should stop looking at the prequels as the destruction of the franchise. Or at least, stop only considering the movies when dealing with the Star Wars legacy.<p> I watched the OT as a kid, had a few of the toys - but I never really became a massive fan until I picked up the first Jedi Knight game. Playing that made me want to explore the expanded lore of Star Wars, a universe I had no idea existed until then. The most brilliant thing Lucas did was create this Star Wars empire that appealed to so many, and allowed certain people to contribute to it (still within his control, of course). But in terms of lore, Lucas is only really responsible for the content of the movies. There is so much more.<p> The novels (the novelizations of the films are usually better than the actual movies), the comics, the games - they are what keep my interest and love of Star Wars alive. I was excited about the prequels, and like many disappointed upon their release (although I didn't mind ROTS - I think by then my expectations had been lowered sufficiently enough to somewhat enjoy it!). But then I played Knights of the Old Republic games (I & II), with a storyline (officially part of Star Wars canon) more epic than the OT itself! And check out the cinematic trailer for The Old Republic MMO (http://tinyurl.com/nwlngp), and tell me if that isn't better than Episodes 1-3 COMBINED.<p> The expanded lore for Star Wars is greater than even that of the LOTR (I should know), and there are literally thousands of years worth of stories left to tell. I know most Star Wars fans focus only on the movies, but with the wealth of information already out there, the potential is there to make some really great movies or television series - perhaps they could look at the Old Republic era (The Great Sith War, The Mandalorian War, The Jedi Civil War) or beyond the OT era. Even sticking with the OT era, you've got the adventures of Darth Vader's apprentice, young Han Solo, Boba Fett, Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade etc. If only Lucas loosens his grip on the reins. The good thing is though, that even if there are no new movies, there are still going to be Star Wars stories being made for decades to come.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:26 a.m. CST

    I'D LOVE A TREK / WARS CROSSOVER

    by BringingSexyBack

  • March 15, 2010, 12:26 a.m. CST

    god, who cares

    by groby123

    jesus, they're just movies. all 6 of them. and none of them are very good, very well written, or very interesting. star wars fandom has always baffled me. the movies are all boring, the plots are all uninteresting, and the characters are all one-note. i'm not a troll--just a 25-year-old who has spent the last 15 years of my life having to listen to people blab about how star wars is the greatest bunch of movies ever. ugh!!

  • March 15, 2010, 12:29 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    "Do the midichlorians give you more mastery over the force because you are born with them? or are they planted in you by the force? It's never explained." No, indeed it's not explained. It's merely stated that they allow to let you know "the will of the Force, and that the Force can create life by manipulating midichlorians. "Either way it's a biological agent added to a spiritual being. That changes things." Like what? It doesn't change the Force as such, which remains the same energy field it was before. "The fact that it may now be beholden to this very tangible biological element makes it less appealing for most of us. If you don't care thats fine, but you can't blame us for being pissed." Likewise if you don't like it that's fine, but I don't see how an added inconsequential detail like that can piss anyone of - especially when lots of people appear to misunderstand the whole thing, thinking it's some kind of "scientific explanation".

  • March 15, 2010, 12:31 a.m. CST

    THE FORCE IS A FICKLE BITCH

    by BringingSexyBack

    That much is certain.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:36 a.m. CST

    Padme's cause of death was pathetic at best.

    by Daredrummer

    Hey, I have a kid and an ex-wife. Let me tell you, point blank, the connection a woman has to a new child, hell, TWO, is far, far more reaching than some emo connection to a child murdering asshole. To say that she died of a "broken heart" is so laughable. She would've fought for her kids. It's pathetic. Why not have it be that Anakin just choked a bitch out? Is that somehow worse than him killing a room full of children? Palpatine tells him that's how she died anyway...why do that ridiculous ending? Gah

  • March 15, 2010, 12:37 a.m. CST

    BurnHollywood

    by jimbojones123

    Right on about Padme forgiving the psychopath. Especially when she was SOOOOOO interested in her own people's well being in TPM, and even the Gungan's.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:39 a.m. CST

    Too many fatties with time on their hands

    by anamika

    This talkback is hilarious. Granted, I'm not a Star Wars fan, but I can't imagine ever getting this obsessive over an 11 year old film, ever. I actually like the newer films more than the older ones, as they have a better story and action, but to each their own. I also think it is totally disrespectful to George Lucas that he has stupid fatties making movies and YouTube videos bashing his art relentlessly again and again. Get real.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:39 a.m. CST

    And the midi thing -is- a direct scientific change to the Force.

    by Daredrummer

    It's like measuring your spirit with a blood count. The Force is supposed to be the spiritual aspect of the SW universe, opposing all the ships and lasers and lightsabres. To take the spritual aspect of Star Wars, and feel the need to use a blood test to define power level is really like 5th grade writing. Yoda demonstrated his power by lifting a ship out of a swamp with his mind. There was no need for a nurse. It just shows the poor ideas and writing of the new films.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:40 a.m. CST

    DID ANAKIN EVER FINGER PADME'S TWAT WITH HIS ROBOT HAND?

    by TehCreepyThinMan

    That's the only real question?

  • March 15, 2010, 12:42 a.m. CST

    Human, I have in fact explained, several times

    by IndustryKiller!

    Why it's not consistent at all with what Yoda said. First of all, you ARE saying that those memories would have been planted in Leias head as a baby. That's not a straw man dude, that's a fact. If you care to finally specify then by all means, but that has been your tract. If not a baby though, it would have to be womb or as a little girl, either way it's bullshit.<P>Now Yoda says you can see Past, but it's obviously that you can SEE the past, not that you can think you lived it. Now if you have seen pictures of your great great grandfather whom you had never ever met and someone asks you "Do you remember your grandfather?" You wouldn't say "A little" and if he died in the moment you were born you wouldn't say "He died when I was very young." So obviously Leia thinks she has MET her mother. like physically met her (because obviously i have to be that clear). Now if Leia is wrong, then, for the umpteenth time, you ARE saying that those memories would have had to be implanted by the force. She would have thought to have lived them, which is not at all in ine with what Yoda is saying. Period.<P> The line about images/feelings is clearly meant to signify distant memory, and a brush off to the question. If she had meant it literally, and she knew she had never actually met her mother because she died at childbirth, she wouldn't fucking say "she died when I was very young" which obviously implies something other than dying 10 seconds after you were born. When Luke says "tell me" the script says that she is taken aback by him pushing further and that is when she specifies further, implying she means the images/feelings line as a brush off to an odd question. And Luke obviously doesn't think Leia means she has Force induced memories of her mother, he thinks she met her, and that's why he asks further. If she had said "she died in childbirth" Luke would have not inquired further. So even by your rational there would be a disparagement between what Leia is saying and what Luke is saying, automatically making the scene fucking absurd.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:43 a.m. CST

    If the mountain won't come to Mohommed...

    by StarWarsRedux

    ...then an internet fanboy will always find a way to make one out of a molehill.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:43 a.m. CST

    CTM - ANAKIN'S HAND HAD A BATTERY OPERATED FORCE

    by BringingSexyBack

    according to the novelization. It was cut from the movie.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:43 a.m. CST

    It's obvious Star Wars is still a big deal....

    by Han Cholo

    As evidenced by the size of these talkbacks. Personally, I would definitely like to see someone other than Lucas and his people to take a crack at an epic new Star Wars movie that had nothing to do with any of the trilogies and basically had nothing in common with them other than maybe the Planets and tech that is reminiscent of what we've seen but not a carbon copy. Maybe have an all new story take place in an alternate universe. <p> I've actually had some fan fiction in my head for a number of years. Not like the stuff written by guys who just rip off lines and make cliched stories about already established characters but a story that has all new characters that I'm trying to make into a graphic novel. <p> It would be interesting to see what other would-be directors and people who always wanted to write their own stories could come up with. And I think that's the real power of Star Wars, that it's become bigger than George Lucas and it almost seems unfair that he owns it because there are people that are guaranteed to have better stories and ideas that will most likely never get made or will be seen by everyone. <p> Those comedic fan films that are selected every year by Lucas are absolutely terrible.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:44 a.m. CST

    anamika

    by Sicuv Uyall

    Art... Hah! You probably like the cartoons too. By the way, I'm in shape. You're a douche.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:44 a.m. CST

    Obi Wan wore brown and tan robes because he lived in the DESERT.

    by Daredrummer

    Oh yeah, I don't see many people address this. It irritates me that the look Kenobi had going on Tattoine was due to the fact that he was a desert hermit. The fact that became the default Jedi look is so uncreative. When I hear the description of the Clone Wars in Kenobi's dialogue to Luke, I imagined the jedi having all sorts of different looks, hell, they were warriors and cops more of less, I thought we'd see all sorts of cool, futuristic outfits, but nooooooo....brown f'n robes, 'cause that's the clothes worn by an old desert hermit. U-n-c-r-e-a-t-i-v-e

  • March 15, 2010, 12:45 a.m. CST

    How far away is that galaxy?

    by strosmer

    Are we talking the Milky Way still, or could it be a galaxy in another universe, in another dimension, where the rules and logic of our known universe simply do not apply?

  • March 15, 2010, 12:47 a.m. CST

    groby123

    by Star Hump

    You're too young to be so jaded. It's not so much about each individual movie, but about the entire concept, the awesome imagination of George Lucas. He created a brand new galaxy of stories and characters. It's a staggering accomplishment. We can give him credit for that much, and more.<p> And as one TBer mentoned way up thread, it might've helped if you'd been around back in 77, or 80, or 83 when the 3 original films impacted the world like a goddamn atom bomb. It was a worldwide phenomenon, in the truest sense of the word - a cinematic thrill ride no one had ever experienced before. That's why we're still talking about Star Wars to this day. Now, a good many poor decisions have tainted this universe a bit, but the initial idea, the spirit of Star Wars, will live on forver, and it's remians to this day a truly impressive feat of creativity. It's too bad you missed it, but I know you don't give a shit. That's fine.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:47 a.m. CST

    And Human, it COULD be a scientific explaination

    by IndustryKiller!

    Like we both agree the midichlorians arent explained. So if people have the Force because they are biologically born with this thing in your blood stream, that implies an explanation for why some have the force. Thats science.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:50 a.m. CST

    It's a blood test to determine a number. It's scientific. Period

    by Daredrummer

    Really. He gave a blood test to determine a number to assign to his potential power level, as opposed to meditating and feeling how strong his connection to the force is. Everyone expected option B, because it is inferred that the Force is a spititual connection everything shares, not a number of alien cells you have.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:51 a.m. CST

    And it's also a terrible idea. Also period.

    by Daredrummer

    I could never imagine Yoda taking Luke into his hut and telling him to roll up his sleeve for a little test. Jeeeeez

  • March 15, 2010, 12:51 a.m. CST

    right on Daredrummer

    by Star Hump

    The uniform Luke wore in ROTJ was more in line with how a Jedi should look - or variations thereof. Jedi should have looked intimidating and mysterious.<p> The decision to have Kenobi and Ginn wearing desert bedouin gear was ill-conceived.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:52 a.m. CST

    FEAR AND LOATHING IN MOS EISLEY……

    by TehCreepyThinMan

  • March 15, 2010, 12:55 a.m. CST

    High five Star Hump

    by Daredrummer

    It's funny, the only way that Lucas had in his arsenal to show their monastic connections is to dress them up like monks, even though they are pretty much Galactic Special Ops peace keepers. Or at least that's what we told....I guess he doesn't SHOW us that aspect much....

  • March 15, 2010, 12:57 a.m. CST

    Wow, this really is a huge talkback....

    by Daredrummer

    Seriously, for a talkback with no planned sequels, that ended quite while ago, this talkback is on fire. I have made peace my how I feel about the films, but it's clear that so many people aren't able to simply "walk away" as we'd like to claim...myself included!

  • March 15, 2010, 12:59 a.m. CST

    Bob Orci IS a better writer... face it.

    by Sicuv Uyall

    StarWarsRedux, why do you keep fooling yourself into thinking there was anything good about these movies? There was nothing "classic" about any scene, yet we all wanna believe that our money was well spent. And about the dialogue, maybe the originals were just as cheesy as the new ones, but the original talented actors who tried to make us believe they actually CARED what they were saying. If I was Liam Neeson and had to read lines about midichlorians, I'd half assedly recite them for the camera then go out for a beer when it's done, collect my paycheck and then hope they put me in that awesome Batman reboot in a couple of years. Stop standing up for those prequels... it destroys your dignity.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:59 a.m. CST

    Wow good catch Daredrummer

    by IndustryKiller!

    If the midichlorians werent a retcon, then Yoda or Obi Wan, upon meeting Luke, would have checked his midichlorian count to see if he was a match for Vader. Because TPM implies that a high midichlorian count equals higher potential mastery over the Force. SCIENCE!

  • March 15, 2010, 1 a.m. CST

    More on the robes....

    by Daredrummer

    Now that I reflect on the idea, the Jedi were supposed to blend in, yet they were the only ones roaming around the galaxy in tan robes...everyone knew a Jedi when they saw one. They were obvious, stuck out like a sore thumb. Never thought of it that way.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:04 a.m. CST

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    "You ARE saying that those memories would have been planted in Leias head as a baby." No, I've never said that - I know just as well as anyone that babies can't form episodic memories. I don't see how she could not have seen Padme through the Force when she was very little (*was* capable of storing memories). She says that all she has is images and feelings - the kind that, indeed, would feel like memories from when you were very little. So, she had images of her mother when she was little, and to her those images feel like vague memories. I still fail to see why that's so implausible. "If she had meant it literally, and she knew she had never actually met her mother because she died at childbirth" why do you assume that Leia knows when exactly her mother died? She probably says that her mother died when she was very young because her adoptive parents probably told her as much. And yes Luke does obviously know that Leia was raised adopted (hence "your REAL mother"), Leia probably told him at some point off-screen, what does that matter to anything?

  • March 15, 2010, 1:04 a.m. CST

    Anakin should've been almost paranormal.

    by Daredrummer

    If they simply HAD to make Anakin a little kid, then he should've been really weird, floating objects around unintentionally, flinging objects with his mind when upset, showed how he was out of control of his abilities, and they were too strong to handle at that point without training. Not a f'n blood test, almost like a paranormal thing or a creepy little Damian kid, not a whiny spoiled brat that is supposed to be a f'n SLAVE, not some bored suburban kid.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:05 a.m. CST

    No Star Hump

    by Sicuv Uyall

    Lucas ruined it ALL! Any imagination that came from Star Wars was destroyed once the Prequels came out? From the Special Editions on up, everything... EVERYTHING.... was, is, and will always will be a fuckin cash grab! Thank God he put out the tools for MORE TALENTED filmmakers to use and make good blockbusters.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:09 a.m. CST

    Who the hell is Bob Orci?

    by StarWarsRedux

    And why the hell should I care? <p>Sicuv, I think Lucas is good at writing stories, and could use a little help from his friends when writing dialogue. Too bad guys like Lawrence Kasdan et all. didn't take him up on his offers to help him write the prequels. Funny, nobody seems to remember the reports of different people being offered positions to collaborate on the PT and turning Lucas down-- hell, remember the piece right here about David Hare being offered the chance to be co-director on TPM? Lucas is well aware of his limitations, and often has tried to get others to help, or at least give feedback. The sad thing isn't that he surrounded himself with Yes Men, but rather that nobody bothered to take his requests for assistance seriously. <p>Still, I don't think I've even talked about his writing at all in this thread. What impresses me about him most are what he does with visuals, the cinematic poetry he pens with the camera-stylo. That, undoubtedly, is classic.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:10 a.m. CST

    THe 70 minute review is...

    by vettebro

    Fucking spot on! Lucas fucked up the Star Wars franchise with the last 3 movies. Bottomline! I love the quote from young Lucas stating that SFX mean nothing unless you have a good story. Then we see a cluttered SFX movie with no story from him. Fucking ironic. I watched all 70 minutes and it's spot on.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:11 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    "So if people have the Force because they are biologically born with this thing in your blood stream, that implies an explanation for why some have the force." Yes, it might explain to a degree why some people are Force-sensitive and some are not, but *it doesn't explain the Force itself*. Which leaves the issue of whether the midichlorians are there because "the Force wills it" or for some other reason. The *only* thing is does, narratively, is establish beyond doubt that yes, Anakin is the chosen one. That's it. It's just a proxy for Force ability. Nothing else - and we don't even know how good of a proxy it is. But the midichlorians themselves don't say anything about the Force itself, at all - and the notion that the midichlorians *are* the Force is just absurd.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:13 a.m. CST

    Robes issue.

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    Isn't the point that the Jedi wander around in farmers' robes? The Lars guys also wear them.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:16 a.m. CST

    Star Hump

    by groby123

    at first i thought you were right--that perhaps being back in the late 70s and 80s would've legitimated the now 3 decades of endless obsession. but then i saw you debating how a jedi uniform should look and realized that these are far more than movies to you (even though they are just movies, if really the engines behind a profit machine) and are an obsession. my advice to you: grow up, get laid, and stop worrying about a stupid "universe" of space ships and teddy bear aliens. seriously people. the movies are fucking BORING. how in the hell can you all care so much about a series whose main character is a boring little white dude who doesn't even care when his surrogate parents are blown to smithereens? why not become obsessed with movies that have, you know, humanity and depth. here's a few: the godfather, citizen kane, there will be blood, and, for all you sci-fi losers, children of men.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:18 a.m. CST

    Nah, I can't agree Sicuv

    by Star Hump

    I don't think Lucas and co. ruined it all - at least they didn't for me. We'll always have the original 3 films. Sure they're flawed gems but the spirit remains intact. And hell, the first two are high watermarks for overall moviemaking, you ask me.<p> I'm non-plussed about the prequels. Hell yeah I was disappointed, but that faded quickly. I really don't think about them all that much. And there are people out there who really love them, who seem to get the same thrills I did from the originals. At the very least it keeps Star Wars alive. Sure it's kind of a rocky road now film-wise, but they'll make more movies again one day, and next time they just might make them great again. Until then, put in the original Star Wars and forget about the rest.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:20 a.m. CST

    On midichlorians

    by IndustryKiller!

    I actually think we are agreeing in our disagreement. We seem to be on the same page about what midichlorians mean. I dont think they ARE the Force, but anything that brings The Force closer to the realm of the scientific makes it less interesting to me, and many many others, spiritually. The idea that you are chosen by the force itself, and not your biology, is far more fascinating.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:20 a.m. CST

    anamika

    by groby123

    i'm with you! isn't it nice not to get bent out of shape about stupid boring sci-fi crap? oh and by the way, you stupid star wars losers, you do realize that lucas continually changes his trilogy not to piss you off, but to make more money repackaging old shit. when you guys jump on the web and freak out it's only extra publicity to the fat bearded billionaire, and we all know you're buying what you're bitching about anyway. GROW UP.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:22 a.m. CST

    PHANTOM MENACE WAS THE GIMME SHELTER OF THE 90'S.......

    by TehCreepyThinMan

    Just in the way Woodstock represented everything that was good about the 60s, Star Wars created a huge wave of optimism that expanded minds until the wave crashed, resulting in The Phantom Menace, just as Gimme Shelter revealed the ugly downward trajectory of the hippie era as it’s ideals became corrupt. So to has Lucas became an old man who sold out his principles, if he ever had any, and became the very thing he hated when he was young. Each generation betrays the next and Lucas’ betrayal was The Phantom Menace.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:24 a.m. CST

    All the midichlorian arguing just amuses me.

    by StarWarsRedux

    People who think midichlorians ruin the mystical nature of the Force remind me of Right Wing fundamentalists who can't reconcile the theory of evolution with their belief in God. We don't all have to be like John Locke or Jack Shepherd-- we can be men of science AND men of faith at the same time.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:24 a.m. CST

    Force Stew

    by Captain Papercut

    Midichlorians were bad, but were made way worse by the fact that Lucas didn't even have them pay off. All of the outrage about them scared him off and they were never mentioned again! I hate the idea of midichorians, but if you are going to introduce them, you better go for it. I swear I remember reading an article before the prequels came out where Lucas said he'd figured out a way to tell the story that even if you watched episodes I-VI in order, you'd still be surprised by the big Vader/father reveal in Empire. So I thought: Well, if the force is made up of little critters, then you should be able to collect them in a big vat. Maybe as part of the hunting down of Jedi -- Palpy drains their blood into a big device that separates the midichlorians. He then creates a clone of Anakin and marinates the clone in the Force Stew. Anakin and Obi Wan fight Anakin's bad-ass clone and in the battle everything gets mixed up. One Anakin dies and you are lead to believe it was the mean clone that goes on to become Vader and the "real" Anakin that ObiWan talks about in ANH was "murdered by Darth Vader." And we're cool through the prequels and through most of Empire until Vader says HE'S Luke's father, and everyone watching it goes, "Holy shit, the wrong Anakin died back in Episode III!" So we're all surprised whether we watch the OT first, or the PT first. And if it was handled right, we'd be absolutely devastated about the guilt and pain ObiWan has had to endure. Also, I really think Lucas had bigger plans for JarJar, but had to totally rework them in light of fan outrage. I expected JarJar to be one of the first characters killed by Anakin when he went to the dark side. It would have been really tragic to see Anakin kill his old friend -- a simple creature that loved him since he was a kid.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:27 a.m. CST

    Humans rabbit hole on Leia gets deeper.

    by IndustryKiller!

    You see whats happening now Human? we are getting into all kinds of assumptions about Leia. Now your making shit up about what Leias adopted parents told her (uhh they never told her WHEN her mother died! Yeah, Thats the ticket!), and Leia substituting Force visions for memories (they just seem like memories to her so she clearly lumps them together!) to justify your points. The graveis just gonna get deeper, but Im having fun watching you dig.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:27 a.m. CST

    groby123

    by Star Hump

    is to go fuck yourself. I get laid as often as I please and I'm all growed up. Everythng's just fucking dandy.<p> I merely mentioned a detail about a movie costume. Earlier I typed out some thoughts about the plot to the prequels. I'm a movie fan. I enjoy thinking about all kinds of movies, Star Wars included. All aspects of filmmaking are interesting to me - from costume design to cinematography to acting. It's not an obsession. It's not "worrying." It's a passion, and there's not a damn thing wrong with that.<p> Why are you even here if you think Star Wars is boring and stupid?

  • March 15, 2010, 1:27 a.m. CST

    Lucas was a cameraman on "Gimme Shelter"!

    by StarWarsRedux

    Ha! Granted, the Maysles gave him a shitty camera that didn't work right, but he was there for the infamous Altamont moment! According to John Milius he was the one who shot the footage of the Hell's Angels killing a concert-goer. <p>Ha! Irony! It's just a shout away!

  • March 15, 2010, 1:27 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    "I actually think we are agreeing in our disagreement." Cheers! :-) "anything that brings The Force closer to the realm of the scientific" I feel that way about everything Star Wars - it's pulp sci-fi, and should remain so. To me, Ep.2 is a far better SW movie than Ep.2, but the notion of "altering genetic material" was borderline. "The idea that you are chosen by the force itself, and not your biology, is far more fascinating." But, if the Force can influence your midichlorian count, wouldn't that be the same as being "chosen" by the Force? In the PT, it's alternately stated that Anakin was "conceived by the Will for the Force" and "conceived by the midichlorians", so we know the Force can influence midichlorian counts.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:29 a.m. CST

    oh please

    by gotilk

    Gimme Shelter didn't reveal shit. It just reinforced people's prejudices at the time and created a false record of the "downfall" of hippie culture. The people that were the real thing back then continued to be and just like the poseurs that ruined punk, the poseurs that made the rest of the hippies look bad settled into false lives with their false hippies wives and had babies named Turnip and Wolf-fart, who either killed themselves or started dot-coms. Nothing really ever changes.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:32 a.m. CST

    Sick of this.

    by tensticks

    O.G. SW fan (5 when ANH came out and wasn't ANH). Barring a few things, like the special editions, like the prequels, and GL did NOT rape my childhood. I wish everyone else would just get over it.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:35 a.m. CST

    *clarification

    by tensticks

    I meant, I *like* the SE's and I *like* the prequels.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:39 a.m. CST

    Wow Papercut

    by Star Hump

    That's brilliant. Talk about an original idea.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:39 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    "we are getting into all kinds of assumptions about Leia." Yeah, of course you make assumptions when interpreting dialogue - you do that every time you talk or hear people talk. That's normal. You should read your own explanation of the Luke-Leia dialogue; it contains as many assumptions as I make in mine. "Now your making shit up about what Leias adopted parents told her (uhh they never told her WHEN her mother died! Yeah, Thats the ticket!)" As opposed to making assumptions about what her foster parents *did* tell her? So, oh enlightened one, tell me what her foster parents told her? "and Leia substituting Force visions for memories (they just seem like memories to her so she clearly lumps them together!) to justify your points." No, that's always been my point. Leia has visions of her mom while growing up, and they seem like memories to her. Don't you have instances where you can't tell whether you can actually recall something from your infancy, or whether it's because you've seen pictures? Anyway, it's bedtime for oldies like me - good night and thanks for the discussion so far.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:42 a.m. CST

    Everybody fighting with Industry Killer

    by jimbojones123

    JUST STOP-- The Trolling is not necessary. You can go ahead and think whatever you want, but to anybody who has invested more than five viewings into this franchise knows that there was a list of about 10-20 things that needed to happen to get from point A to point B. <p> Lucas decided to be an egotistical smartass and undermine or alter half of those key points.<p> Why, <p>1. An attempt to prove how much more creative older Lucas wa than a younger Lucas. <p>2. To stick it to the fans who thought they knew everything -- his story was more deeperer than any foolish fan ever knew.<p> 3. Sell toys. The $$$ for the PT was always in merchandise. Lucas knew if he could average $165 in merch sales for every white male from the ages of three to nine, it didn't matter how many $7 tickets were sold.<p> The bending over backwards to attempt to figure out the logic behind these decisions is just an attempt to stir the pot here. A newborn having a force connection to somebody that was not force sensitive is silly.<p> Should we start assuming that with enough training and blood transfusions, anybody could be a Jedi now? If Han gave Leia mouth love while she was on her cycle, could he lift boxes???<p> What other new "laws of Star Wars" can make up under the "it could happen" premise?<p> Nah, I am too defeated by the lack of logic ones already made up here.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:49 a.m. CST

    Human, I dont have to make it up

    by IndustryKiller!

    What her adopted parents told her that is. Because Leia was there, and old enough to remember, as she explicitly states in Return of the Jedi. That's the beauty of following the dialogue.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:20 a.m. CST

    Aw, come on Quint

    by ol' painless

    These old wounds need to be reopened. Old battles need to be re-fought. Its the funniest fucking thing in the world to watch fanboys and haters go at it year after year! I hope they end up in old folks together, whaling on each other with their canes in rage over Greedo shooting first, never realising the futility of it.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:25 a.m. CST

    Logic

    by strosmer

  • March 15, 2010, 2:30 a.m. CST

    Logic? In Star Wars?

    by strosmer

    Arent' those movies a celebration in irrationality. I swore I read that somewhere. The Making of Star Wars? Yeah, think that was it. Can't remember where in that book though. All this talk of logic is just silly.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:18 a.m. CST

    Gonkdroid

    by Julius Dithers

    It was a pisspoor attempt at humor on my part. Dissing the prequels is tired. Might as well have the haters start their vitriolic attacks on Lisberger, Kosinsky and Tron Legacy now. That's 28 years of anticipation just waiting to blow its load in December. Commence the bitching, bitches.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:33 a.m. CST

    FamousEccles

    by BadMrWonka

    as an impartial observer, you are completely wrong. <p>if you think logically about what you're saying, that means that Leia's comments were referring to neonatal memories of her mother, as she describes her beauty. (I guess her womb was beautiful?)<p>seriously? and if her comments are, as you say, her memories from pre-birth, then she must know that her mother died during childbirth. do you think it makes any sense she wouldn't mention that? especially since LUKE IS ASKING HER SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HER MOTHER?! that is borderline humorous.<p>not to mention, for ANY of what you're saying to be logical in any way, Lucas (when writing and filming the scene) would have already had to have decided that Padme had died during childbirth. do you honestly (I'm asking seriously) think that he'd already decided on something that specific? (here's a hint: he hadn't, and he admits he hadn't until he finalized the script decades later).<p>so now, knowing all this, isn't it MUCH more likely that's just a combination of lazy storytelling on Lucas' part, and your own overactive imagination?<p>by the way, Bruce Willis didn't die in the Sixth Sense, and I know it's true because there are ghosts in the movie, so why not?

  • March 15, 2010, 6:11 a.m. CST

    This whole debate on MidiChlorians...

    by robtaylor

    To me it just seemed like Quai Gon was a more scientific/renegade Jedi than most... They made reference to him "clashing with the council"... perhaps the clash was cos he was the Darwin type, espousing the theory of these little things you can test for rather than pure faith... it would explain why he was always "so sure" about Anakin... as he believed whole heartedly in his theory and why Mace and Yoda were not so sure...

  • March 15, 2010, 6:22 a.m. CST

    Star Hump

    by groby123

    fuck yourself asshole. you're a virgin and everyone here knows it, you stupid fucking prick! yeah ok, a big cinephile is bitching about fucking jedi uniforms, you boring self-centered asshat!! and that goes for all of you!! fuck you all!!!!!!

  • March 15, 2010, 6:49 a.m. CST

    MurderMostFowl

    by BurnHollywood

    Excellent list. Reading through it, it really hits you: GL just could not do origin stories for shit, could he? Anakin, C3P0, Boba Fett...man, we're lucky he passed on the chance to do a boy Han Solo...

  • March 15, 2010, 7:02 a.m. CST

    it got to be 5 am here and I fell asleep. Just going to

    by FamousEccles

    look for where I I left off.

  • March 15, 2010, 7:13 a.m. CST

    Okay, a lot of TBers seem to have missed the point

    by FamousEccles

    completely. We are not not discussing which movies are better, which actors suck, etc. Go learn to read.

  • March 15, 2010, 7:32 a.m. CST

    BadMrWonka -I am well aware that Lucas did not

    by FamousEccles

    know the specifics of how Leia's mother would die while writing ROTJ. He probably hadn't decided how or even if she going to die on screen until ROTS. This is irrelevant. It still fits with what Leia says. By "beautiful", Leia doesn't necessariily mean great tits and ass. Look up the word in a dictionary. In the Ewok village scene Luke asks Leia about her memories of Padme. She could indeed be confusing Padme with Bail's wife, however, IndustryKiller! (I think it was him anyway) is right - the scene means little if Leia isn't actually talking about Padme. Therefore it is clear she is. She states her memories of Padme are "more images...feelings" than real memories. She died when Leia was "very young". That can't mean child birth? It isn't possible that Bail lied to Leia about the specifics of how and when Padme died? That is assinine. They were living right under the Emperor's nose. Of course, she didn't now the details.

  • March 15, 2010, 7:35 a.m. CST

    jimbojones123 - fuck off you twank. IndustryKiller!

    by FamousEccles

    is killer is quite capable of looking after himself, you twating nancy boy?

  • March 15, 2010, 7:40 a.m. CST

    StarWarsRedux - the Locke/Shepard thing

    by FamousEccles

    well said. There are plenty of scientist who believe in God.

  • March 15, 2010, 7:56 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! - please tell me how you can accept

    by FamousEccles

    the "logic" in wizards, space dogfights, hairy aliens and ganster slugs, but not in the possibility that Lucas intends that Leia "memories" are from the womb? The fact that Padmne dies in child birth is a clear indication that he does. It is ridiculous to say he ignored/forgot the scene in ROTJ, just because it does not fit in with the preconceptions YOU had of the Sagas untold chapters.

  • March 15, 2010, 8:01 a.m. CST

    Many films have plotholes

    by THAT__SAID

    Why is this one so hard for you to accept?

  • March 15, 2010, 8:16 a.m. CST

    If only you geeks had shown half the critical faculties...

    by AsimovLives

    ... you shown for THE SW PREQUELS for when you watched JJ Abram's FRAUD TREK! If only! I'll never understand why you compartimentize so much, why can't you be more congruent. I'll never understand that, why so critical to some bad movies and so dismissive and forgiving and appologetic to similiar or even worst bad movies. A damn nigh on unexplainable mystery.

  • March 15, 2010, 8:17 a.m. CST

    I can't watch the whole Plinkett review

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    It's fucking boring.

  • March 15, 2010, 8:21 a.m. CST

    The Force is still the Force

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Midichlorians don't change anything. It's just a silly sci fi concept for biological receptors for the Force. It's how you interface with it. It doesn't mean the Force isn't the Force. <p>Midichlorians is an okay if dopey sci fi idea if they started out with it, but the way it's introduced it's unnecessary and muddles the issue as evidenced by the fact that 99% of viewers seem to misunderstand the concept.

  • March 15, 2010, 8:36 a.m. CST

    My problem with that theoryy famous

    by IndustryKiller!

    Is how silly "womb memories" are. It's laughably absurd. I mean Famous....Jesus man Ill say it again. WOMB MEMORIES. And, again, Leia would have to be on the cusp of lying to Luke in that scene for that to be the case. No one whose mother died during childbirth would say she died when she was "very young" and Im not going to invent some ridiculous plot in which the Organas were unspecific in their recanting of Leias mothers death. Im not going to retrofit one of the best scenes Return of the Jedi because Lucas decided to retcon the fucking thing for an inferior film 20 some odd years later. The scene was beautiful how it was and Lucas clearly just didnt fucking care.

  • March 15, 2010, 8:41 a.m. CST

    Daredrummer and Star Hump:

    by Sith Witch

    The brown robes are indicative of a monastic order; what else would monks wear that identify enough with our own world to be quickly visually identifiable for an audience of millions?

  • March 15, 2010, 8:41 a.m. CST

    You are right Thunderbolt

    by Arteska

    Also - people flew off the handle about that detail from Ep1 without allowing it to play out but then it eventually dovetailed with one of the very best scenes in Ep3. Anyone with a 7 part YouTube video deconstruction either actually does love the movie or is a world class narcissist. The prequel bashing meme is one of the worst legacies of this site and it does in fact have its origins here.

  • March 15, 2010, 8:45 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller...

    by Arteska

    I'm sure when it was written Leia's speech referred to her shared mother with Luke but as it turns out it's not hard to assign that to her Organa mother since in the end that was the only one she knew - imo anyway.

  • March 15, 2010, 8:54 a.m. CST

    Some facts.

    by cricklewood

    My daughter (aged 8), along with my friend's kids (aged 5 & 8) love the prequels and hate the OT. Me - (aged 40) love the OT - not really bothered about the prequels (don't love nor hate em too much). Why? Because that's the way it's MEANT to be. I watched the OT from 1977, when I was 8. The films are for kids. Period. anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts. And George doesn't owe anyone anything. They're his films, not yours. If you hate him so much, don't discuss him, don't buy DVD's toys and cinema tickets and he *might* get the message. He might not though. With his bank balance, I'd be laughing all the way to the bank too.

  • March 15, 2010, 9:12 a.m. CST

    Carrie Fisher in a fucking metal bikini

    by Dark Doom

    I was there in 77 and for all of the original trilogy and Leia in a bikini. Because of that George gets a free pass. Plinkett's reviews are fucking hysterical though.

  • March 15, 2010, 9:21 a.m. CST

    I believe Leia was talking about Mrs. Organa

    by ricarleite2

    She didn't know she was a Skywalker when Luke asked her. She could know she was adopted (albeit still having the Organa name), so perhaps she was thinking of a deceased Mrs. Organa, who died before Alderaan was exploded.

  • March 15, 2010, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Great 70min Review

    by TheManWhoCan

    More entertaining than most comedy films out in the last few years, and free. Can’t wait for his AOTC review. <p>I remember watching the making of the movie (back when I thought the “making off” a CGI heavy movie was interesting, which it isn’t. I was just caught up in the DVD extras gimmick) there is a bit where George Lucas is overseeing the computer people render CGI Yoda saying the line “Begun, the clone wars has” he keeps telling the animators to change this and that/make his mouth and eyes bigger, then smaller. Except, the changes where inconsequential. Ultimately it didn’t matter how much they tweaked this and that. Really it should be the lead animator’s call at the end of the day but Lucas still keeps banging on to change little things, and the animators who are clearly frustrated with Georges interference keep agreeing with him because they are afraid of him, like he could choke them to death with the force for talking back or something. “Begun, the clone wars has” “okay change the lip there” “Begun, the clone wars has” “no change that back” “okay how does that look now” “Begun, the clone wars has” “ehhh.. no make his eyes a bit wider when he says that” “Begun, the clone wars has” Animators make desperate quick eye contact with each other and make slight shrugging motion, one animator looks at the clock on the wall, another wipes tears from his eyes “Begun, the clone wars has” “yeah that’s it!..no wait try that again “Begun, the clone wars has” etc

  • March 15, 2010, 10:04 a.m. CST

    OVER YODA, I SO AM

    by BringingSexyBack

  • March 15, 2010, 10:14 a.m. CST

    Plinkett = COMEDY GOLD...

    by SkidMarkedUndies

    And he shows some pretty damning evidence to how sucky the prequels were. I'm a bit of an apologist and even I can't deny how spot on he was.

  • March 15, 2010, 10:19 a.m. CST

    "what's wrong with your face!!!!!!

    by ludmir88

    haahahahahaahaah that make my monday. now i'm full charged.

  • March 15, 2010, 10:40 a.m. CST

    THAT__SAID, every movie, TV episode, book play, etc.

    by FamousEccles

    has plotholes. The fact at hand here is that what IndustryKiller! claims are plotholes are not. George Lucas wrote something that went agaionst IndustryKillers! OWN preconceptions. That is I think what is troubling the lad.

  • March 15, 2010, 10:52 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! - can't you see what you are saying?

    by FamousEccles

    The whole thing is a fantasy where the rules of the real world do not apply. A Force sensitive person can see the future, even when untrained. Anakin could do it in TPM. Why not Leia? "Womb memories" are no more ridiculous than any other concept in Star Wars. And Lucas did not retcon this for ROTS. We do not know what Leia knew about Padme or what Bail told her about how or when she died. Leia is not aware, until Luke tells her, that she is Force sensitive and so is completely unaware that her "memories" of Padme are Force related - which they ARE because Padme died in child birth.

  • March 15, 2010, 10:58 a.m. CST

    Too much of everything

    by Zeruel

    What sums up the failure of the prequels for me is the first scene in Revenge of the Sith. First we get this great shot of an epic space battle. (Love it.) Then Anakin's fighter as it is followed by a homing missile. It gets closer, closer... Could be anything in there. A warhead, some radically advanced clusterbomb, alien acid, that eats his canopy, or even a mini nuke. Instead we get a cloud of tiny robots, trying to dismantle his ship... And on a related note. Since Anakin knew that Padme was pregnant, he must have assumed that the baby/babies died with her. Flash forward to 18 years later and he doesn't seem the least bit surprised that his son is alive and well. Yet has no idea that he also has a daugther. Apparently even with all their cool and shiny tech they never noticed she was having twins?

  • March 15, 2010, 11:05 a.m. CST

    ricarleite2, Leia is talking about her biological

    by FamousEccles

    mother in that scene (Luke says "real mother"). It is the first time on screen that it is revealed that Leia adopted and aware of it. As revealed in ROTS everybody would know Leia is not the Organa's biological daughter, but they are not aware of who she really is.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:10 a.m. CST

    Zeruel, Anakin did not know Padme was having twins.

    by FamousEccles

    Their cool shiny tech is not perfect. It could be argued that the midichlorians where "cloaking" one of the babies. Plus, how do you know whether Anakin was surprised to discover he had a son 189 years later? We never see the scene where he discovers Luke's identity. It occurs between TNH and ESB.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:13 a.m. CST

    I meant 18 years later of course. although I believe

    by FamousEccles

    Lucas says it is now twenty years (which makes more sense than 18 anyway - since Luke is "still" stuck at home)

  • March 15, 2010, 11:21 a.m. CST

    Twins

    by Zeruel

    Your're right. He probably found out between Ep 4 and 5. Still a shame that we never see his reaction. Must have been quite the Kodak moment. But I find it hard to believe (way too convinient) that they can't diagnose a pregnant senator (VIP!) of the Republic is having twins. Personally I would expect a a civilization that mastered interstellar flight millennia ago to have that kind of tech.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:35 a.m. CST

    diagnosing twins

    by Bouncy X

    i think i mispelled that but anyway. there are countless women and their doctors who only realize she has twins at birth. but as for Vader never knowing, well since they split the kids and hid them its sorta obvious they also made sure the information never got out.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:49 a.m. CST

    Zeruel, he did find out between 4 & 5 because

    by FamousEccles

    it is Luke he is now hunting, not the Rebels. True about the tech, but the Force could block a scanner most likely. But the tech isn't perfect in Star Wars, just like in BSG - Adama wears specs!!!

  • March 15, 2010, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Daredrummer you're right about garmets

    by MurderMostFowl

    As we see in ROTJ, Lucas or someone on his staff must have agreed with you at the time... Luke's jedi outfit is much more appropriate for a "warrior" to have. <BR><BR>

  • March 15, 2010, 11:58 a.m. CST

    I always thought the Obiwan was force shielding the twins

    by MurderMostFowl

    Because he thought they were his! Zing!

  • March 15, 2010, 12:01 p.m. CST

    Luke and Leia should've realized they were...

    by Thanos0145

    related when they kissed in ESB.<p>George Lucas Prequel Apologists will state that Luke and Leia's midichlorian count must have been low that day for their force powers to work. No "searching their feelings" during that liplock.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:02 p.m. CST

    Thanos0145, can you explain?

    by FamousEccles

  • March 15, 2010, 12:14 p.m. CST

    Amazing How Much Discussion This Topic Still Generates

    by LaserPants

    Plinkett NAILS it, nobody else is really offering anything new (either pro or con), and yet the war for the heart of Star Wars continues. Of course, the war is already lost, Emperor Lucas has taken one of (if not THE) greatest film series of all time and hopelessly *sullied* it (if not ruined; we still have the *good* movies) in order to turn a profit (the only thing that matters to the man), and that's pretty much it. It's a shame, but I'm not losing sleep over it. <br><br>Echoing sentiments voiced earlier, I watch the OT at least 2 or 3 times a year (usually around holidays with my girlfriend or other geek friends), and haven't watched TPM (Toilet Paper Movie) or AOTC in years (why bother? But I do like ROTS; I watched that several times and still enjoy it). It all comes down to this: the prequels are an epic failure on every conceivable level. That the final installment wasn't *as bad* as the first 2 installments is grudging praise at best. Lucas seems to have gone out of his way to eff this up, one suspects, almost out of spite. That's right, I think Lucas hates Star Wars and hates you. BUT, he does like money, and since he knows he could make TONS of it no matter what came on screen, he hacked it out, only managing to make one last good flick before going off to nurse his neck fat in a pool filled with YOUR money. Sad. Because it could've been SO GOOD. Oh well....

  • March 15, 2010, 12:15 p.m. CST

    he tries to fix what aint broke. ex: ep,1,2,3

    by FleshMachine

    episode 3 should have had brand new xwings and ties...but no, he had to made all new vehicles...dumb.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:16 p.m. CST

    twins writing is to blame

    by MurderMostFowl

    I always thought a much better ending would have been the falling out of Anikin and Padme earlier in the film, and have the twins born in secret, AND no one, especially not YODA should would have been there. <BR><BR> Anyway ... so Padme herself takes the twins out of fear of what Anikin might do and some visions she's had. Then some situation happens where she gives up Luke ( in a emotional lesser of two evils scene or something like that ) and he is brought back to Obiwan. Padme secretly escapes to Alderan. And we do not ever worry about how she dies or even if she dies.( hint hint ) <BR><BR> Anikin gets word of her disappearance and apparent abandonment of his child and comes back to find that Obiwan won't even let him see Luke. Feeling betrayed by his wife and his friend and mentor, this becomes the final straw for Anakin and he fights his battle against Obiwan.... the end. <BR><BR> This ( or something similar ) satisfies alot of issues, and makes for a much more compelling reason to join the dark side to me

  • March 15, 2010, 12:19 p.m. CST

    They Kissed In ESB Because They WERE NOT Brother & Sister Yet

    by LaserPants

    It is pretty obvious, to anyone with half a brain, that Luke and Leia were NOT supposed to be brother and sister when the series was conceived, and not when ESB came out. That plot point was clearly not even contemplated until the writing of ROTJ.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:25 p.m. CST

    Laughed my ass off!!!

    by The Dark Nolan

    Six months ago when I first saw that review. Yeah, kinda figured there'd be a few douche bags on this site who'd try and stand up for the prequels. Plinkett kicks ass, can't wait for the AtotC review.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:28 p.m. CST

    It should be called...

    by Azlam Orlandu

    ...The Ingrates Vs. George Lucas. Who the fuck do you people think you are? Get a life.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:47 p.m. CST

    The BIGGEST problems with the prequels.

    by The Dark Nolan

    The point that many have already made is that the script sucks. Lucas wrote episode 4 and co-wrote Jedi. They were obviously amazing, however, writing is like exercise, you have to keep doing it to stay in shape. If you work out five times a week for a year straight, you're gonna be in great shape. But if you quit working out for 20 years and then run a marathon, you're not going anywhere. Lucas didn't write shit after Jedi, and it showed with his scripts for the prequels. Lucas should've written the stories and then let a seasoned writer write the scripts. Kasdan, Zaillian, anybody but Lucas. I also hated the CGI in space. There was no sense of speed. No shots from behind the ships like in the originals to create that adrenaline rush. The ships had no life to them. They should've used models in front of the blue screen like they did for the originals. I just watched all six films again, and the gritty, realistic look of the originals blow away the beautiful computer canvases of the prequels. Just because it looks pretty, doesn't mean it looks good. The CGI use to me is a metaphor for the whole problem with the prequels. It all looks good, but it's hollow. I won't even go into Hayden's acting because if the scripts had been better, then he probably would've too. Although I think Hayden still sucks. Oh well, as Plinkett said, "They can never be undone."

  • March 15, 2010, 12:49 p.m. CST

    Mr. Plinkett should also review the SW Holiday Special

    by Thanos0145

    Any SW fan who wasn't a kid during the OT should check it out if you can find it. Talk about crap!<p>That special should've been a reminder to George that Jar Jar and poopy jokes in the prequels were a bad idea. Wasn't that special made for kids as well. I thought Chewbacca's family was going to get a cameo in ROTS.

  • March 15, 2010, 12:49 p.m. CST

    The most damning part of the Plinkett review...

    by Jared

    ...is when the people can't describe any of the prequel characters. That alone brought a lot of my issues with the movies into focus.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:03 p.m. CST

    SW Holiday Special Is Still Better Than TPM

    by LaserPants

    AOTC is only marginally better. (And yes, I'm an olde head who remembers watching that on tv and loving the Boba Fett cartoon.)

  • March 15, 2010, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Let's All Celebrate Life Day This XMas

    by LaserPants

    Oh, hey, look, it's a drunken Carrie Fisher pretending she's not having an ongoing nervous breakdown. And is that... Jefferson Starship? Wow!

  • March 15, 2010, 1:08 p.m. CST

    We will never have Hope or Empire again

    by erikzod

    People should really let go of the prequel bashing. Hope and Empire are both perfect films and will never be matched again. Lucas was never going to satisfy everyone after those two masterpeices. Empire being my fav, I still loved Sith,had fun with Clones, and thought Darth Maul was cool in Menace. These are just popcorn movies. Although I did love the 7 part review of Menace which I have always had problems with.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:11 p.m. CST

    Lucas' Redemption

    by Dan Halen

    Those prequels were our last hope. No, there is another. MAKE EPISODES 7-9. He's got nothing to lose after the last three fuck ups.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Carrie Fisher high off her tits on coke...

    by V'Shael

    is about the only way geeks would get a chance to fuck her. So that version is the best, clearly.

  • March 15, 2010, 1:51 p.m. CST

    So the prequels are bad. Now what?

    by Dr. Hfuhruhurr

    All of this complaining about a movie that is over 10 years old.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Kasdan and Kirschner were offered the prequels

    by Dr. Hfuhruhurr

    Kirschner told Lucas that right or wrong, these were his stories and he should put his vision on screen and no one else. I think this interview was in Starlog when PM premiered but can't find a link. I did find a link that verifies that Kasdan was offered a chance to work on the prequels but declined. http://www.pub.umich.edu/daily/1998/oct/10-30-98/arts/arts2.html So, say what you want about Lucas, but he tried. This wasn't about ego.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Anyone see Star Wars Robot Chicken?

    by SithMenace

    "She's lost the will to live? What is your degree in, poetry?". Classic.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:22 p.m. CST

    groby123

    by rogueleader66

    Sounds like quite and articulate intelligent guy.....ok I am laughing as I type that. Just another worthless troll, if you don't like sci-fi or any of the movies covered on this site mr groby, then I say respectfully....fuck off you stupid assclown....go someplace where your peers go....maybe the local home for "special" people....you fucking retard. Something is very wrong with a person who gets pleasure out of constant insults and degrading of others for no reason other than he is so bored, cant get laid and lives in mommy an daddy's basement but thinks he is independent. Pity people like him.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:33 p.m. CST

    I don't get the hate for Return of the Jedi

    by SithMenace

    Yeah, there's Ewoks in it, and yeah, Ford was pretty much just going through the motions, but it also features THE best lightsaber duel of the entire saga because of what's going on between those three characters. Not to mention you had the best space battle of the entire trilogy and a well done ground war with Scout Walkers and Speeder Bikes. The opening with the arrival of Vader was was ominous and atmospheric, the entire Jabba's palace sequence was well done (until the Special Edition), more Boba Fett, a sweet battle over the Pit of Carkoon, Yoda's death, Vader showing true regret over what he's become for the first time (it's too late for me, Son), The Emperor's death, Vader's redemption and a satisfying close to the trilogy. But all anyone can ever say is "Jedi sucks because of Ewoks". I don't get it.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:38 p.m. CST

    the divid DID NOT start with Jedi

    by FleshMachine

  • March 15, 2010, 2:38 p.m. CST

    ROTS > ROTJ - fact

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    Stoned Carrie Fisher, bored Ford, boring and contrived expositional scenes, burp jokes, and a re-hash of A New Hope iconography, versus Ian McDiarmid at the top of his game, political intrigue, great action sequences and a downbeat but hopeful ending. No contest.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:38 p.m. CST

    i don't get why we're still talking about star wars.

    by RedHorseVector

    maybe it's cause we know in our hearts that we still have three more mediocre sequels coming before george drops dead.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:38 p.m. CST

    i don't get why we're still talking about star wars.

    by RedHorseVector

    maybe it's cause we know in our hearts that we still have three more mediocre sequels coming before george drops dead.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:40 p.m. CST

    the divide DID NOT start with Jedi

    by FleshMachine

    almost everyone loved jedi...every kid certainly did...only years later did it become hip to not like it...and not like the Ewoks. the real divide started at the special editions!

  • March 15, 2010, 2:51 p.m. CST

    cricklewood nails it

    by la_sith

    Watch the new movies with some little kids and see how much *they* complain about how "midichlorians destroyed the Force", Jake Lloyd's bad acting, flaws in the opening scrawl (seriously?), Leia's false memory and Lucas's disgusting neck. Your inner-child is gone and dead, and all you whiners need to get a fucking life and/or write your own fucking stories.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Turd, you're getting facts and opinions confused

    by SithMenace

    Because in my opinion ROTS was a hackneyed, rushed, poorly directed, poorly acted and poorly written attempt to give fans what they always wanted. I mean, did we really need a 15 minute rope swinging lightsaber duel? It was boring. Christenson and Portman were beyond terrible, Anakin's turn was rushed and unrealistic, Padme's death was beyond ridiculous (see Robot Chicken reference above) and the whole thing just felt completely off. Oh and don't forget about Vader screaming Nooooooooo, which was the most effective emasculation of an iconic villain in the history of film. <p>Imo of course.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Turd does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    Turd... Turd... Turd...<p> You really think that one of those souless photo-shop fake CGI clone trooper + battle droid yawnfests is superior to RETURN OF THE MOTHERFUCKING JEDI???<p> Dude? Wtf??? The big space battle at the end of Jedi was shot 20 years earlier than the big space battle at the start of ROTS - and it PWNS IT INTO OBLIVION. The model work in that space battle is AWESOME. Star destroyers, x wings, tie fighters, a wings, y wings, super star destroyers, loadsa other craft I can't even name - plus of course the death star itself. All battling together in a beautifully choregraphed battle with suspense, thrills and spills and quotable dialogue "ITHSA TRAP!" sayeth Ackbar.<p> Turd, now contrast that with the all cgi battle at the start of ROTS. All cgi all the time. Dude, nothing... nothing sticks in my brain from that space battle. It was just a blurry of CGI nonsense with no suspence, no importance, and in fact... it bored me. Yes, a Star Wars space battle bored me. Tragic.<p> In short, Turd, if you think ROTS pwns JEDI then you have never been more WRONG in your life my smelly friend.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:57 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    Sithmenace - you and I saw the same movie. Agreed. ROTS was not the movie that saved the PT, just more of the same lameness.

  • March 15, 2010, 2:57 p.m. CST

    RedHorseVector

    by SithMenace

    If that's true, hopefully Lucas will just outline a story and hire a writer and director. What's Kasdan doing these days?

  • March 15, 2010, 2:58 p.m. CST

    Right on Cobra--Kai

    by SithMenace

  • March 15, 2010, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Isn't GL working on 3D versions of the movies?

    by Thanos0145

    I know that last summer watching the SW musical concert tour special on TV, they showed the new cgi Yoda for Episode 1. The new Yoda footage was only shown if you went to see the the concert.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Mr. Plinkett is a joke

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    The dude who speaks like a foul-mouthed Walter Matthau with a mouthful of rolled up socks? I couldn't make it through 5 mins of that gimp, and yet I see some people here are applauding him for a supposedly truthful, insightful and hilarious 'review', which is utterly hilarious to me. You geeks are far, far too easily impressed. Where have you clowns been for the past 10 years? There was nothing new here. There was NOTHING said here that hasn't been said by others countless fucking times before. Therefore, it is worthless and completely void, a bore, just like this supposed Fat Nerds Vs. George Lucas documentary garbage. The case is closed, and the horse has been beaten to death.<p> Mr. Plinkett and his ilk are just the umpteeth obese losers in a long line of millions, and he won't be the last. Any chimp can sit and critize while festering at their computers. It's also telling that these monkeys think they know better than Lucas, yet their ideas are no better and often considerably worse. Who was the twit above who said that Boba Fett should have been Han's father and people were actually applauding him, without a trace of irony?<p> You've also got to laugh at some of the nonsense in this Plinkett guy's 'critique'. Nit-picking shit like the opening crawl saying 'two jedi knights' but Obi-Wan is technically still a padawan? That kind of crap means nothing at all. There are deep-seated reasons why the prequels did not work, but stuff like that is of no consequence to the success, or lack of, of them, as pieces of cinema or storytelling. Talk about missing the forest for the trees. This is why fandom simply isn't taken seriously, whether it is evident in their garbage ideas, suggestions for 'improvements', crappy fan edits - they are hung up on trivia with no idea of how filmmaking and cinematic storytelling realy work. And yet they have the temerity to sit sagely at their laptops in their rank basements, mouths full to bursting with junk food, and have the gall to lecture Lucas and others on what is wrong with their movies, nodding sagely at their apparent 'wisdom'. Lucas is flawed, but he sure knows a shit more than the keyboard jockeys. Those who can do, do. Those who can't...well.<P>And finally, as if futher proof was required that some of the sadsacks here should get some fresh air, I find it amusing that anyone here who dares to defend the prequels the tiniest bit, even while acknowledging their mediocrity, gets shit immediately thrown their way, or branded 'apologists' (surely the stuidest term ever co-opted by fandom), as if we were discussing matters of world import or those highlighting the merits of the prequels were defending Nazism or a dicatator. Get a fucking life, you hairy sacks; you take this shit way to seriously. Here's another one for the road - the prequels, despite the weak performances of Christensen and Portman, have, on the whole, better acting all round than the pantomine theatrics of the OT. Neeson/McDiarmid/Lee/McGregor > Hamill/Fisher/Billy Dee/Countless rotten supporting actors. Only Guiness and Ford put in great 'human' performances in IV - VI.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:11 p.m. CST

    There are all kinds of thing Lucas is working on

    by SithMenace

    But none of them ever seem to appear. I've heard about a tv show, Red Tails and the 3-D Star Wars movies for what seems like years now.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Cobra-Kai, I speak the truth

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    ROTJ is like a high school production - cheap sets, lazy performances, bland cinematography. ROTS is akin to Empire in its aspirations, though certainly not as good. It is a flawed, though very ambitious film - full of ambiguous meat to chew on, relevant political and historical allegories, and even some genuine soul. I will always prefer an ambitious mess over a phoned-in cash-in every time.<p> Back to the dojo for you, Mr. Kreese!

  • March 15, 2010, 3:14 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    And IndustryKiller, well done for arguing.<p> In that lovely quiet (and beautifully scored) scene in JEDI when Luke and Leia talk about their family. Luke does say he never knew his mother and Leia does she remembers her.<p> FAMOUSECCLES, 'IT WAS A WOMB MEMORY'?? WTF?? I'VE BEEN READING THIS SITE FOR TEN YEARS AND I'VE NEVER READ SUCH BULLSHIT!<p> IF I FOUND YOU I'D FORCE CHOKE YOU AND NOT STOP UNLESS SOMEONE OF GRAND MOFF RANK OR HIGHER TOLD ME TO!!!!

  • March 15, 2010, 3:15 p.m. CST

    The audience HAS NO RIGHT to his art, asshole

    by Chameleon88

    *spit* (It sucks lately, though)

  • March 15, 2010, 3:16 p.m. CST

    check out the bizspark live video at sxsw

    by akkosa

    sxsw.com/interactive/accelerator

  • March 15, 2010, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Funny you mention a phoned in cash in, Turd

    by SithMenace

    Because that's what the entire prequel trilogy was.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:19 p.m. CST

    70's Lucas vs. 90's and beyond

    by Samuel Fulmer

    Old Lucas had to rely on the filming methods/effects and budgets he was given in the 70's, giving his genre efforts like THX-1138 and the original Star Wars a pseudo documentary realism in regards to the look and editing. Compare the original unaltered THX-1138 and Star Wars and you'll see what I mean. There is an almost matter of factness to what you see (which of course with Star Wars was mind blowing in '77) no shock value whereas the special editions of both films are crammed with over the top effects the actually distract from the viewing experience and are counter productive to the story. Lucas exhibits this to the max in the prequels, we get wall to wall effects that zoom by so fast you have no real context as to what we're seeing (thus the space battle in Jedi trumps anything in the prequels because we are actually given an idea of place and movement, instead of a bunch of CGI ships zooming around with fast editing that disorients to the point that it actually takes you out of the film). It's sad that he took THX-1138 and the original Star Wars and butchered them much in the way Michael Jackson butchered his face with multiple plastic surgeries. It would be like Michael Mann going back and somehow altering his old good films that he actually shot on film to give them the terrible DV camera look of his current output.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:20 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    Turd, and I will always prefer a carefully costumed Gamorrean Guard over an all-cgi Clone Trooper.<p> I mean fuck, man. They couldn't make one Clone Trooper costume? Not one single one? Not even for the close up shots when they're interacting with the leads? Soul-less, sterile, fake, and artificial film-making.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:21 p.m. CST

    ROTJ>ROTS Slave Leia>any outfit Padme wore

    by Thanos0145

    I'll take watching Vader lifting and throwing the Emperor over watching FrankenVader throw his NOOOOO tantrum any day.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:25 p.m. CST

    The problems of ROTJ

    by Samuel Fulmer

    Should have clued people in on how the prequels would play out. All of the bad decisions of that film are only magnified when the prequels rolled around (except Lucas decided to make the Ewoks talk and call them Gungans).

  • March 15, 2010, 3:25 p.m. CST

    I'll chime in with what I say on all these threads

    by Jaka

    I like both trilogies. But I absolutely love the original trilogy. They are both watchable, but for completely different reasons. The first, because it's original, new, exciting and it reminds me of the innocent wide-eyed days of my youth. The prequels because they're ridiculous over the top eye candy, devoid of nearly all emotion. I don't have hatred for them, though. I just can't view them with the same love as the original trilogy. They're not the same thing. Fortunately for me I'm able to separate the two and enjoy them on their own terms. That being the case, I shant argue with people about them any longer. Midichlorians are dumb and you can't convince me otherwise. No need to argue about that. Nyaaa! : )

  • March 15, 2010, 3:26 p.m. CST

    And by magnified I mean

    by Samuel Fulmer

    Lucas took the worst things in Jedi and made them even worse in the Prequels.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:27 p.m. CST

    The prequels are okay in context of the '00s

    by Samuel Fulmer

    but really they are as forgetable as the Pirates of the Caribbean movies or the Spider-Man films.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Mcdiarmid in ROTS is akin to Gargamel in The Smurfs

    by IndustryKiller!

    I mean get with the fucking program here Turd. Considering you haven't made a relevant point yet on ROTS actually being a good film I can see why no one is taking you seriously. Mcdiarmid at his best? The Mace Windu death scene has got to be some of the worst acting in the trilogy on his part. the "NO! NO! NOOO!" line is a career low for a great Shakespearean actor. it's like Lucas went "DO it like Return of the Jedi but make it 2000 times cheesier and take out any sense of menace...basically make him Gargamel from the Smurfs!"

  • March 15, 2010, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Boba Fett's "comical" death at the hands of Han Solo

    by Thanos0145

    was one of the bad things about ROTJ. A Luke Skywalker saber throw to the chest would've been a better end for Fett.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:30 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    In the Special Edition of JEDI you see Hayden Christensen appear in 'ghostly' form standing alongside Alec Guiness and Yoda at the finale, right?<p> But how come the guy who played Vader unmasked wasn't also changed? I mean he looks nothing like Hayden and he's clearly British.... talk about your continuity lapse... Hey Eccles - What's your answer to that one motherfucker?

  • March 15, 2010, 3:30 p.m. CST

    Cobra--Kai

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    Gamorrean guards? Those things looked shit even back in '83. Rejects from Jim Henson's muppet factory with green paint flaking off. yes, there's a certain nostalgic charm to be had there, but automatically singing the praises of puppetry over CG work is just ridiculous. Why should Lucas have made an actual clone trooper costume (other than so some obese Harry Knowles-like collector could get their grubby mitts on it an auction?). He didn't need to. Those CG clone troopers looked great, and even held up well in close-ups. Hard surface CGI modelling has always looked good. I gurantee that had they not been told beforehand about the CG used, most geeks would have took those troopers to have been men in costumes. It's only after they learned otherwise that they start carping - "oh, they look like x-box characters, wahh! CG sux!" - and it thus proves how fraudulent and contrived fandom is.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:31 p.m. CST

    "Soul-less, sterile, fake, and artificial film-making"

    by SithMenace

    Right on Cobra, you nailed it. And all of those green screens and cgi environments are responsible for the wooden acting (as well as Lucas). An actor needs encouragement to get into his role day after day, and working in a zero real world environment in a studio kills any chance of that. You need an extremely strong Actor's director to be able to pull that off, and Lucas is not that director.<p>That's why the acting in the LOTR trilogy was light years beyond the prequels, because they only used cgi as one of many tools. If you watch those making of docs, almost every actor says at some point that it was so easy to get into the role because of the amazing sets they were on. They felt like a part of the world they were helping to create. Sure there was cgi, but it wasn't hailed as the final solution in that production.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Those CG clone troopers looked great

    by Samuel Fulmer

    But they still looked like computer generated, not like a real person in a costume like in the original trilogy. And really, they look "great" until they move around and don't move like things do in reality. That's usually the give away, the physics.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:37 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    Turd, a well-lit, well photographed model built by craftsmen still cannot be beat. From Kubricks 2001 spaceship to the Nostromo in ALIEN to the Star Destroyers and Milennium Falcon in the OT... they look 'real', they look 'tangible'...because - they are!<p>

  • March 15, 2010, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Gamorrean guards looked like crap

    by Samuel Fulmer

    But still light years ahead of Gungans or any other aliens in the new films. The sad thing is how bad Lucas film got at practical effects (see the god awful Yoda in Phantom Menace as the best example) that they switched almost exclusively to CGI in Attack of the Clones and Sith.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:39 p.m. CST

    I can understand the complains about TPM....

    by AsimovLives

    ... but for the rest of the prequels?? GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!! Here's news for you, geekois, THE ATTACK OF THE CLONES is better then THE RETURN OF JEDI. Eat that!!

  • March 15, 2010, 3:40 p.m. CST

    geekois = geekoids

    by AsimovLives

  • March 15, 2010, 3:40 p.m. CST

    There is nothing left to say about the prequels

    by Colt19801980

    Lucas should never have written and directed those movies. He should have done an Empire on all three. The End. Now can we get on with our lives now?

  • March 15, 2010, 3:40 p.m. CST

    a well-lit, well photographed

    by Samuel Fulmer

    And this is what was missing. It's as if the cinematographers for the prequels were taken from the same talent pool that light local car commercials.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:42 p.m. CST

    Comparing gamorrean guards to clone troopers is absurd

    by IndustryKiller!

    A mroe apt comparison would be Storm Troopers, and Clone Troopers don't rate. The image of a clone trooper will never be classic. A more apt comparison would be Gamorrean Guards to Dexter Jettster, that ridiculous alien Obi Wan meets in the silly space diner in Episode 2. He looks like total shit. Faker than the worst puppet Henson ever came up with.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:44 p.m. CST

    This talkback should not be this long by the way

    by Colt19801980

    Everything that's been said about the prequels is more than enough. Please stop posting and go have sex or something.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Attack of the Clones was the worst Prequel

    by Samuel Fulmer

    I could prove my point, but pop in the movie and you'll see what I mean. At least the Phantom Menace was shot on real film, had the best soundtrack, and had some decent scenes among the crap. What did Clones give us...Yoda fighting. Oh boy, that's worth sitting through the worst romance this side of the Oxygen channel and murky made for Sci fi channel cinematography.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:46 p.m. CST

    Lucas tells this talkback to be

    by Samuel Fulmer

    Faster...more intense.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:46 p.m. CST

    The rescue of Han Solo and

    by Nerd Rage

    the redemption of vader are far superior to anything in in ROTS. Those scenes are classics.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:47 p.m. CST

    Talkback proves the review to be fact

    by Jaka

    It's all been said before. We're divided as a fan base and that's not going to change.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:50 p.m. CST

    Aside from Portman and Christenson

    by SithMenace

    AOTC is probably my favorite of the prequels. It's the only one that actually felt like a proper Star Wars film, because the pacing was correct.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:51 p.m. CST

    Industry Killer!

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    Same old tiresome schtick from you, pal. I've already made successful and relevant points in ROTS' favour - points which you spectacularly failed to counter (par for the course with you), only having recourse to some convoluted nonsense and double-speak which you farted out of your ass, as is your wont with everybody who disagrees with you. I find you a tiresome individual, and not particularly a worthy opponent - you also lack a sense of humor, which is something that chaps like Cobra seem to have and makes debating with them entertaining. As someone else said above, you're the straw man king.<p> The opera scene in ROTS is the BEST acting hands down in the entire saga, terrific acting and a testament to McDiarmid's classical theater skills. Watch how McDiarmid uses counter-body language and voice tonality to persuade Anakin throughout the scene,as all the best liars do, turning dialogue on a dime as the emotional mood of the scene shifts (as it does about 3 or 4 times throughout). Great scene. Can you actually provide ANY FUCKING DETAILED analysis of individual scenes like that, or as in the case of my above description of Lucas' use of editing; really can you offer anything at all beyond hysterical fanboy ranting that means absolutely fuck all on an objective or rational level, such as "Oh, the blusecreen looked crap in the Order 66 sequence and er..'no, no no!', turns Mcdiarmid into gargamel from the smurfs!" Really, anything at all, while you sit there with the mayo from your triple-decker sandwich dribbling down your chin and onto your Han and Chewie shirt? I tingle in anticipation.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:54 p.m. CST

    Just because someone can dissect

    by Samuel Fulmer

    Plan 9 From Outer Space, that doesn't make it the greatest Sci-Fi film ever made.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:57 p.m. CST

    Luke looking at the sunset on Tatooine is..

    by Thanos0145

    the best scene of the entire saga.

  • March 15, 2010, 3:57 p.m. CST

    Attack of the Clones was the worst Prequel?????

    by AsimovLives

    That's hysterical!!!! Fucking shit, i can't believe human beings actually think this!!! UNREAL!!!! But i should know better, this is the site where people pile up to suck the dick of JJ Abrams. Fucking unbelievable!! I had to laugh!

  • March 15, 2010, 4 p.m. CST

    I think there is a lot to be said about the prequels...

    by AsimovLives

    ... when the dust settles. Until them and while the geekoids still do their spasmodic kicks, no real conversation can be had about the subject.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:05 p.m. CST

    Attack of the Clones looks like something

    by Samuel Fulmer

    JJ Abrams directed, that's how bad it is.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:13 p.m. CST

    The last time I saw great spaceship models

    by Star Hump

    was in Starship Troopers. And the ships were done by ILM, if memory serves. Their last great model accomplishment. Wonderful shots of giant cruisers manuevering about. It really brought a smile to my face. This aspect was totally absent from the prequels. The ships seemed off somehow. The CGI just didn't inspire awe. And the sound design was different, too. The ships often sounded like motorboats -- putta putta putta putta.<p>

  • March 15, 2010, 4:17 p.m. CST

    Samuel Fulmer

    by AsimovLives

    Hardly at all. There's nothing of JJ usual incompetence in ATTACK OF THE CLONES. If fact, JJ would had alot to learn from AOTC... if he wasn't such an untalented egomaniacal loonie in the first place. But he rather decided to learn filmmaking from Michael Bay instead.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Star Hump

    by AsimovLives

    Believe it or not, there's far mroe model work in ROTS then you imagine. I was suprised myself as well. It's the post-production computer grading image correction that makes it all look like CGI in the final result.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Even TPM at it's worst is still 1000 times better...

    by AsimovLives

    ... then any shit Michael Bay ever made at his best. Or JJ Abrams, for that matter. And i fucking hated, hated Jar Jar Abrams... i mean, Jar Jar Binks.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:25 p.m. CST

    How to detect a fucking moron?

    by AsimovLives

    He's the one that will piss and moan and bitch endlessly about any or all of the SW prequels but loves and defends INDY 4: THE QUEST FOR PISS.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:25 p.m. CST

    Turd, really? More ad hominem nonsense?

    by IndustryKiller!

    Eh, so be it. You can remain willfully ignorant to all incoming arguments all you want, but no one's buying it but you, my friend. You have thus far merely listed scenes you love, offering no backing other than "Them looking out over the horizon is beautiful!" to hammy garbage. And you didn't ANALYZE Lucas' editing, you basically just said you liked it a lot. That's not really a support so much an admittance of you broken barometer for B-level drama. I've been as specific as one can possibly be in my retorts to this silliness and I'll continue to do so. <P>The Opera scene in ROTS is hijacked at every point by Christensens terrible line deliver. If oyu try to justify lines like "At last! We'll be able to capture that MONSTER and end this war!" and Christensens pre pubescent delivery Im gonna call your bullshit right now and accuse your whole schtick of being a put on. Mcdiarmid is serviceable, but as the scene goes on it starts to seem more and more like an after school pedophelia. Lines like "They asked you...to do something that made you feel, doshonest, didn't they" sound more like some old guy in a Turkish bathhouse. Its not helped by Christensens stilted "i..dont....uh...I don't know what to say." You can practically see the forced elipses on the page. When he recants the story of Dark Plagus it sounds like a guy reading out of a childrens book. Yeah his voice tonality changes, the problem is it shifts wildly and never sounds like a guy speaking to another adult. His constant "Who me?" tonality borderlines on farce. It's so obviously shifty I can't believe Anikin doesn't call him out on his shit right then and there. Again if you can watch that shit, look int eh mirror, and say to yourself "This sounds like two people having a natural conversation", then Im gonna have to call you out and say you're fucking with us all.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:27 p.m. CST

    For emphasis, here is the scene of Anakin and his gentleman suit

    by IndustryKiller!

    http://www.youtube.com /watch?v=FGBFasDG31I&feature =related <P>Witness Diarmid taking the term "dark side seduction" a little too literally. Cheers.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Cobra kai speaks truth of ROTJ.

    by jimbojones123

    It defines the saga. Without the greatness here, nothing in Empire means anything. Oh, the Ewoks are a metaphor for the least of us, and as the pathetic geeks we are, we should be happy that the least of us are so brightly looked upon.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:42 p.m. CST

    WTF Turd!!!!!

    by The Dark Nolan

    I get what you're saying, but you're WRONG, plain fucking WRONG. First, you rip on Plinkett for the complaint about the "Two Jedi Knights" text, even though the rest of the review clearly analyzes the main faults with the prequels you were talking about. Then you do the same thing by saying the opera scene was the best acted scene in the series. Who fucking cares, it's surrounded by shit, constant fucking shit!!!! "You are in my very soul." "I am haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me." "I'm sorry senator I failed you." Even though she just successfully protected Amidala from getting her ass blown up, that line made no fucking sense. How about the constant spoon-feeding dialogue for Anakin, "He's jealous, he's holding me back!" which continues in ROTS "I feel lost." How about "I'm just a simple man trying to make his way in the universe." or "We used to lay in the sand and guess the names of the birds singing." Are you fucking kidding? Yeah, anyone who defends the prequels outside of saying, they have their moments is a FUCKING moron, you included. And for the fucking idiot above who stated that Attack was better than Jedi, FUCK YOU TOO you pussy ass piece of shit. Lucas scripts sucked, and there is no defending them. I can pick out a couple of good scenes too, but that doesn't make the whole fucking movie good TURD. You did just what you criticized Plinkett for you fucking hypocrite. Fuck the prequels. Lucas still rules for the originals, but his fucking kids went to his head and turned it to mush.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:43 p.m. CST

    Jeebus Christo

    by D.Vader

    The monkeys have been set loose from the zoo!

  • March 15, 2010, 4:46 p.m. CST

    The New Star Trek is better than any prequel too!!!!

    by The Dark Nolan

    The script is good, it's not boring, and the CGI use is well done. Fuck the prequels!!!!!

  • March 15, 2010, 4:46 p.m. CST

    Everyone remember there IS such a thing as "opinions"

    by D.Vader

    And the meaning of the word "subjectivity".

  • March 15, 2010, 4:48 p.m. CST

    RETUIRN OFTHE JEDI is 1/3 of a really good movie...

    by AsimovLives

    ... and 2/3 of mindboggling shit! And yeah, i get what was the intentions regarding the Ewoks, but it still sucks donkey balls. ROTJ makes the prequels look great. Except The Phantom Menace, that movie has issues.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:50 p.m. CST

    D.Vader

    by AsimovLives

    I think some people also understand the concept of validity and backing up an opinion with thoughful and rational arguments. Which puts the so-called "subjectivity" excuse down the drain.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:53 p.m. CST

    The KNIGHT SPOKE ENGLISH at the end of Last Crusade

    by ricarleite2

    HE SPOKE FUCKING ENGLISH. Just realized that! FUCK!

  • March 15, 2010, 4:53 p.m. CST

    I can't read these posts anymore, it gets me too fucking mad!

    by The Dark Nolan

    To say any prequel is better than any original, opinion or not, just boggles my mind!! I'm surprised no has said the Mummy Returns is better than Empire Strikes back yet.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:55 p.m. CST

    The New Star Trek script is good???

    by AsimovLives

    You mena, the script which has the story advancing because of deux ex machinas, plot contriveances, impossible coincidences and characters acting and behaving completly at random to serve the plot needs whenever the movie faces a narrative dead end? That's what great writing is considered this days? Fucking news to me. As for well done CGI, even TERMINATOR: SALVATION and TRANSFORMERS 2 had well made CGI and the movies still fucking sucked! At 150 million dollars, you better have good CGI, it's the very least you can have with such a budget, if nothing else.

  • March 15, 2010, 4:58 p.m. CST

    The Dark Nolan

    by AsimovLives

    ATTACK OF THE CLONES and THE REVENGE OF THE SITH are better then THE RETURN OF THE JEDI. Deal with that, you JJ Abrams syncophant. If you can't understand why, then there's little suprise you liked JJ Abrams's FRAUD TREK so much. As you would.

  • March 15, 2010, 5 p.m. CST

    The new TEH DUMB KEWL bullshit:

    by AsimovLives

    To hate ALL THE SW PREQUELS while at the same time kissing the ass of JJ Abrams and loving his FRAUD TREK piece of shit of a "movie". Fuck 'em! Fucking asses!

  • March 15, 2010, 5 p.m. CST

    I don't think so, Asimov

    by D.Vader

    Subjectivity is never an excuse when discussing art or entertainment.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:04 p.m. CST

    Expensive CGI is different from good CGI.

    by The Dark Nolan

    Overuse of CGI, Star Wars Prequels, Transformers, any Roland Emmerich film of the last decade etc, blows goats no matter how fucking expensive it is. Knowing when to use it makes all the difference. And yeah, Star Trek is better than any prequel, I'll stick by that. You can rag on coincidences all you want, but they make sense, it's like saying the colors trilogy doesn't make sense because every character ends up on the boat in Red. The story reveals how they all ended up on the enterprise. A little coincidence is always a necessity. I mean, if you want to bitch about coincidences, lets throw episode 4 under the bus, how fucking perfect was it that the droids were bought by Luke's fucking Uncle and that after Luke was attacked, Obi Wan Kenobi shows up? Come on, coincidence. But it was necessary. And ANYONE who says that the force is what led the droids to Luke is fucking stupid!!!! Accept it, Star Trek was fucking better than the prequels. PERIOD!!!!

  • March 15, 2010, 5:06 p.m. CST

    Industr Killer!, the only one fucking around is you

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    "After school pedophillia" and "the whiff of the turkish bath house"...guess I misjudged you; perhaps you do have a sense of humor after all. If not...be afraid, very afraid. <P>Anakin's 'hammy' lines are prefectly servicable - this is Flash Gordon, B movie pulp updated and SW was never anything more than that, though great actors like McDiarmid certainly make it much more than it perhaps deserves to be. Lucas is writing in the comic book/serial idiom, and although he's generally not a good dialogue writer only a damn fool would deny what he's deliberately trying to do. Same with his dialogue between Padme and Anakin, which is stilted melodrama and deliberately so - no different from golden age romances. <p> As regards McDiarmid's delivery in the opera scene, this is not two equals having a conversation, but a twisted quasi-father/son one; he knows Anakin is a vulnerable, insecure young man, and his manipulative, cajoling delivery is perfectly attuned to that. Obviously McDiarmid could see the subtext implicit in the scene and chose the appropriate performance; you apparently, could not.<p>Your comments have no merit, because they're all contrived, largely absurd rantings with no objective basis. Not to mention you cunningly, but unconvincingly taking every pre-emptive effort to ward off or discredit every angle of possible attack I could make. Others don't see through it; I do and I'll continue to rake you over the coals for your transparent stupidity wherever I find it.Not to mention your duplicitous and selective side-stepping of critical points made. I said far more than I simply'liked' Lucas' editing. Apparently you failed to read, because B movie melodrama has nothing to do with that scene. Its a moment created, and a meaning communicated, through shrewd editing that does not depend on any acting at all, so drama and performance have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Stop being a very silly bastard indeed.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:06 p.m. CST

    Back it up Asimov!!!

    by The Dark Nolan

    How were they better? Say something other than making a statement. What makes them better? From what I've read, you haven't said shit!!!!!

  • March 15, 2010, 5:07 p.m. CST

    episode 3 is the best

    by JackSlaterV

  • March 15, 2010, 5:09 p.m. CST

    The Dark Nolan

    by AsimovLives

    You stick by a fucking retard movie that makes no sense whatsoever. Think about that.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:12 p.m. CST

    Once again Asimov...

    by The Dark Nolan

    You make a statement, but nothing to back it up with, that's what I thought you prequel pussy!!!!!!!!!!

  • March 15, 2010, 5:16 p.m. CST

    The Dark Nolan

    by AsimovLives

    Well, becasue i'm not a fucking moron, i see that in the storie sof the prequels, they build up to a whole narrative point. The whole plot makes sense, with with all the flaws that THE PHANTOM MENACE has. See the whole prequels with Palpatine as the protaginist, and the whole prequel saga plays examplary. Meanwhile, in fucking FRAUD TREKA, nothing makes any fucking sense whatsoever. Bullshit happens just because JJ Abrams wante dto make another Star Wars mvoie but was suck withy Star trek characters. The whole story makes no fucking sense. Characters act with no logic or rhyme or reason. Every character in that movie is a bitch and unsympathetic and a fuck up, and none worst then the so-called protagonist, that Kirk In Name Only assclown. I never seen a more contrivied plotting then in that FRAUD TREK bullshit. It's like the worst of Star Trek maguinified by Micahel Bay own style of complete narrative incompetence.<br><br>There's a narrative logic to the Sw prequals that one needs to be a fuckign moron not to undestand and notice. Meranwhile, one needs to be a fucking moron not to understand the stupid failures of FRAUD TREK.<br><br>And i'm not even going to being talking about the disparities of competence of editing between George Lucas and JJ Assclown Abrams.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:17 p.m. CST

    The Dark Nolan, the same nitpicking complaints

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    could be made of the OT, which is full to the brim with B-movie dialogue as well. I think someone noted it perfectly above, when they said that Ford's mocking performance distracted from some of that, but when you look at the OT objectively, the same groan-inducing earnestness is present there, too. <P>The problem with Plinkett, and other ranting fools like IndustryKiller!, is that they have decided to hate something and will thus go to town in looking for nitpicking and contrived faults. You can pick holes, or mock anything, if you look hard enough or are prepared to engage in ranting absurdity. They are not proceeding from a rational, objective basis. Even the legit points are undermined because those very same faults largely exist in their treasured OT as well, and if they chose to turn their ire on that they could easily tear it to shreds, too. Of course, they're selective and don't do that. The rose-tinted glasses cloud all.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:18 p.m. CST

    The Dark Nolan

    by AsimovLives

    And your statements are backed up with that? Mindless geek dogma bullshit? Give me a fucking break! You like JJ Abrams's FRAUD TREK, for fuck's sake! 'Nuff said about your intellectual rigour.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:22 p.m. CST

    That's it? Are you 2 years old?

    by The Dark Nolan

    Seriously, did I just read that? You come back with, Star Trek makes no sense, bullshit happens, and the characters are bitches? Star Wars has a narrative logic to it? Really? SO did Freddy Got Fingered, but that doesn't make it good. What doesn't make sense in Star Trek? Be specific you fucking moron. What works in Star Wars besides "The Narrative Logic?" and what doesn't make sense in Star Trek outside of "Bullshit happens and characters are bitches." That's no argument. Like I said, that's what I thought, a prequel defender who has nothing real to say.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:25 p.m. CST

    Turd...

    by The Dark Nolan

    Bad acting and terrible scripts are not nitpicking points. Last time I checked, good acting and scripts are pretty important to how good a movie is. Oh, wait, to you they aren't, THAT'S why you love the prequels. Now I get it. Hey, wanna discuss The Mummy Tomb of the Dragon Emperor now?

  • March 15, 2010, 5:25 p.m. CST

    Cobra--Kai, threats over the internet is the best

    by FamousEccles

    you can do? You limp dick twank!!

  • March 15, 2010, 5:25 p.m. CST

    I Love The Vader-Luke Dynamic In ROTJ and Vader's Redemption

    by LaserPants

    Vader's Redemption and all of that make-peace-with-the-father stuff gets me Every Damn Time. I literally cannot watch any of those final scenes without tearing up a little bit. The rest of the movie is really pretty awful though. I think ROTS is *mostly* really good, but with a few hiccups. I think, objectively, ROTJ and ROTS are about even (even if ROTS is easily the most *hardcore* and depressing of the movies), and my mood swings back and forth on which I like better. I really loved ROTS when I first saw it, and watched it a buncha times since then, but the last time I popped it in, all I saw was the clunkiness. Maybe I was in a bad mood... Anyways, clearly ROTS is the only one of the prequels that earns a place with the originals. The first two are indefensible. I can't believe I'm even still talking about it.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:28 p.m. CST

    The Dark Nolan

    by AsimovLives

    Your whole last post is a great example of irony that only a person without the capacity for understanding irony can make. The irony of your whole post is so thick, it would need a chainsaw to cut through it. Small wonder you liked FRAUD TREK so much. Quite telling.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:29 p.m. CST

    The Dark Nolan

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    "good acting and scripts are pretty important to how good a movie is. Oh, wait, to you they aren't"<p>Apparently, they're not important to you, either, since Return of the Jedi has neither of those two things.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:29 p.m. CST

    LaserPants

    by AsimovLives

    THe Vader-Luke relationship is part of the 1/3 of ROTJ that works. Too bad about the other 2/3.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:32 p.m. CST

    If only the rest of ROTJ had been as good as Vader-Luke relation

    by AsimovLives

    ... the moie would had surpassed EMPIRE STRIKES BACK in terms of quality easy. Too bad about the 2/3 of the movie that fucking fails miserably. And part of the fucking problem about ROTJ is that it wants to be STAR WARS REDUX, only bigger. That was the same problem that THE PHANTOM MENACE had.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:35 p.m. CST

    The Dark Nolan

    by AsimovLives

    You don't care about good acting and scripts, or how else you can explain your love for FRAUD TREK?<br><br>You nkow what is one of my all time favorite movies? CITIZEN KANE. Bitch about how fucking bad acting and script is in that movie, i fucking dare you, you JJ Abrams's ass kisser.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:35 p.m. CST

    The problem with ROTJ is that Lucas was burn out

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    and quickly wanted to be done with the whole thing. So there's a lot of contrived tying up of loose ends, as well as hiring a stooge like Marquand. Jedi directed by Spielberg, and with a Kasdan script that Lucas didn't try to hem in; that would have been the shit.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Return of the Jedi was when the mystique left

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Star Wars is still original, visionary, singular. Empire may have lacked the visual flair of Star Wars but it brilliantly expanded on everything the first film established (something that will probably never be done as successfully again, ever). ROTJ has no ambience and little originality. It's a very 80s, superficial experience. Part of it is the obsessive retreading of the beginning and end of Star Wars, things Lucas thought he didn't get right the first time. Part of it is disengaged actors. Part of it is making one of the great villains of all time some goofy smiling old dude. Part of it is the goddamned fucking Ewoks.<p>There are some good things in ROTJ but the first two films owe more to the adventurous spirit of 70s US films, and are all the better for it.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:41 p.m. CST

    Yup, you are 2 Asimov.

    by The Dark Nolan

    "One of my favorite films of all time is Citizen Kane," pulling out the cliche concensus #1 film of all time. If you would've said Lawrence of Arabia, I might have believed that you weren't a child, but come on dude. I'm done, come back when you've been through debate class in high school ten years from now. Or come up with substance to back up your arguments cause you've said Fraud Trek like 30 times now and it isn't working. Fraud Trek? Really, come up with something better boy.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:43 p.m. CST

    "This sounds like two people having a natural conversation",

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I'm positive this was never an ambition of Lucas's. I mean, I know it for a fact.

  • March 15, 2010, 5:46 p.m. CST

    by Han Cholo

    People everywhere are still into Star Wars in a big way. People who say they've moved on or are over the movies still want to see that quintessential Star Wars movie get made. Everyone here wants to see another Star Wars done right, me too. I think at some point we'll get our wish, even if it's a decade from now. But I'm sure we'll get what we all want which is a movie that all of us can enjoy. I don't think it'll come from Lucas though....

  • March 15, 2010, 5:51 p.m. CST

    No interest in this

    by Kontarsky

    My two cents: The part of Return of the Jedi I like is about as good as the entirety of Revenge of the Sith. The rest of the Original Trilogy is completely superior to everything else Star Wars. The cartoons, comics, and books are all crap. Movies only. George has bored me and I'm man enough to move on to other shit by now, seeing that I don't have any interest in what they shovel out for the fans (Mandalorian shit, Bounty Hunter scum, everything basically OTHER than the Empire).

  • March 15, 2010, 6 p.m. CST

    Oh boy.....

    by rogueleader66

    I am not going to get into this argument because it will consume my entire evening and I refuse to let that happen, especially when my g/f is calling me to the bedroom later. <P>All I am going to say is this....Being an admitted SW fanatic, I have always been more forgiving of the prequels than most. I enjoyed all of them, felt they had enough classic SW moment to be a worthy addition to the franchise. They are, for me anyways, not better than the OT, but have moments that equal some of the best moments from the OT. <P>To close, people are going to bitch about the PT til the end of fucking time, and that's fine. All I am going to say is this, despite what you may have thought about the story line of the PT, at least they were telling a fucking story, unlike most of the garbage that has been released since that throws out story in favor of big flashy CGI fests that have zero substance and no narrative whatsoever. I will take Episode I over any Transformers movie, any crappy McG directed Terminator shitfests, any Emeerich end of the fucking world CGI fest, fuck I'd even take it over Avatar (which is no slam against that movie which I thoroughly enjoyed). That's it. I will say no more because I have zero desire to get into another pointless argument over SW. I may chime in here and there but I will not debate this pointless crap yet again. My opinions are not changeable, nor are the opinions of others, therefore making these arguments utterly pointless. Carry on fellas!!

  • March 15, 2010, 6:03 p.m. CST

    Love the PT...

    by darthwaz1

    and I grew up w/the originals as a child of the 80's. Sorry so many of you feel raped.

  • March 15, 2010, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Models in ROTS Asimov?

    by Star Hump

    Damn! I had no idea. I don't own the DVD. I'd dig seeing some behind the scenes stuff. Using models in the current day...Anyway, thanks.

  • March 15, 2010, 6:15 p.m. CST

    NEW RULE: Bitching about Lucas is sooo 1990s

    by Bill Maher

    Why not play Mambo Number Five while you're at it? Or the Macarena? They're all fads that belong in the Clinton era. George Lucas is the greatest filmmaker of all time. Just look at how many people bitch and whine about his movies, then pay to watch them! Oh, and FUCK Francis Coppola. He hasn't done dick since 1979.

  • March 15, 2010, 6:21 p.m. CST

    Ill be back later, but I take solace in the fact

    by IndustryKiller!

    that I've gotten Turd to the point where he isn't defending The Prequels, only trying to tear the OT down and attack me personally. I think that speaks volumes and is a big step in the right direction. :)

  • March 15, 2010, 6:22 p.m. CST

    Bill Maher...

    by The Dark Nolan

    It's fun bitching about this shit. But I agree, Lucas has created some of the greatest shit ever. He's not my number one, but he's close.

  • March 15, 2010, 6:24 p.m. CST

    slightly off topic, but I 'd like to know..

    by cricklewood

    ...when ROTJ was being written, the story goes that GL wanted Wookiees to be in the Forest Battle, but he rewrote it as 'Ewoks' because, he claimed, 'audiences wouldn't buy it that Chewie could pilot a ship, while his race lived in trees.' Okay. SO if that's the case, why did he go with full-on Wookiee society and put them in ROTS? Just always wanted to know the answer to that...

  • March 15, 2010, 6:30 p.m. CST

    And again on the opera scene.

    by IndustryKiller!

    Unless Mcdiarmids subtext is "Man I really want to fuck Anakin Skywalker" Im not sure he knew what his subtext was. Im not saying its bad because it isn't a conversation between two equals, Im saying its bad because he's alternating talking to a grown man like he is a small child ( and I dont mean that as a metaphor, I mean it literally) and talking to anakin like he is a naughty student kept after school for "extra carricular activities" and being Cobra Commander level flamboyantly slimy. You can't watch that scene and tell me that if someone talked to you like that, even a confidant, that you wouldn't be creeped out and say "why the fuck are you talking like that?". But then again even you admit it sounds like a stupid B-movie, well I guess we agree on something finally. Heh.

  • March 15, 2010, 6:30 p.m. CST

    You keep dreaming, buddy

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    You know you've got nothing to say. As for me not defending the prequels anymore, what are you smoking, you selective minded turkey gobbler? I've been continuing to defend them all the way. Or rather - been continuing to defended ROTS. I never made any claims about TPM and AOTC; I simply said they had some good moments (and even that was attacked). <p>IndustryKiller!, you are a fraud. Come back after devouring your daily meal of thirty chocolate donuts and a three-foot long sub, not to mention masturbating vigorously over your slave leia figurine, then we'll talk. Or rather...I'll talk and you'll gobble. Gobble, gobble, gobble!!

  • March 15, 2010, 6:39 p.m. CST

    Star Wars!!!!

    by BoopyBeepy

    People talking about the opera scene in ROTS? The opera scene where people in space paid to see a jelly orb. That scene was bland like everything else in the prequels. Star Wars OT had B movie dialogue but it was within the context of a good space adventure movie. EP 1, EP 2, EP 3 are just a bore. Nothing fun about them. Stupid Space Politics.

  • March 15, 2010, 6:39 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    Eccles, don't make me force choke a bitch.

  • March 15, 2010, 6:47 p.m. CST

    I say Attack of the Clones sucked more!!

    by THAT__SAID

  • March 15, 2010, 6:50 p.m. CST

    And I say The Phantom Menace sucked more!!!

    by KEVIN_COSTNERS_RECYCLED_PISS

  • March 15, 2010, 7:10 p.m. CST

    You people are still arguing???

    by Colt19801980

    I just read an entire book while you guys argued for the last hour and a half. Go do something else. The OT rocks, the prequels are terrible, Lucas is a failed artist turned businessman, end of story. What more needs to be said. I feel like I'm in the early 2000s with all this prequel arguing.

  • March 15, 2010, 7:23 p.m. CST

    Star War was one of the biggest

    by Nerd Rage

    cultural phenomenons of our generation. Of course people are still talking about the prequels. You expect people to suddenly forget about Star Wars? Yeah ok.

  • March 15, 2010, 7:30 p.m. CST

    I'll admit I have a shit load of Lucas merch..

    by Dark Doom

    Christ, we can argue about Lucas till the cows come home- but how much of his shit did you buy? I'm looking at 6 SW dvds, 3 fx sabers, a small army of figures and a fleet of x-wings, the falcon, a-wings, etc, etc. Lucas you bastard!! George you win....

  • March 15, 2010, 7:32 p.m. CST

    Star Wars WILL be back! It ain't done yet...

    by Cervantes

    Think this talkback is long? Pah, small potatoes. Whatever anyone thinks of either STAR WARS trilogy, the fact is that the WHOLE saga as it stands now is going to be 'converted' for a 3D re-release eventually, and that's a fact. Lucas has confirmed this.<p>So the debates on quality between the OT and Prequels will begin anew, and then there's the coming live-action SW television series which will keep things bubbling along long into the future....<P>But if there remains the glimmer of a SW fan inside you still, then do yourself a favour and seek out the 'STAR WARS:REVISITED' fanedit by a creative genius called 'adywan', and prepare to be amazed. Type in his name on YouTube for clips, and check out the details on it at Fanedit.org It's the best-looking (and sounding) version ever, and yes, 'Greedo' shoots first once again!<P>He's now onto his 'Empire:Revisited' effort, and it's looking equally fantastic. This is how the 'Special Editions' SHOULD have turned out!

  • March 15, 2010, 7:33 p.m. CST

    RLM/Plinkett's review

    by Kaitain

    imo the single best thing I've ever seen on YouTube, and the poster boy for the value of the Web 2.0 cliche.

  • March 15, 2010, 7:35 p.m. CST

    Reading is fundamental and so is shutting your gob.

    by ZodNotGod

    I've been there since the begining so I feel the films belong to my generation- anyone else is merely interlopers. I LOVE Star Wars- ALL SIX of them and quite frankly I'm sick of these spoiled assholes, there so-called internet journalists making a buck from Lucas's films despite saying they hate his work. Way to go with ethics and all that morality jazz. I've discovered lo' these many years that the people who hate the prequels, WERE NEVER FANS TO BEGIN WITH. Sure they may like the orginials, but they are not true fans. They go where the wind blows them and if that means dumping on uncle george, so be it. And for that they do not deserved to be listened to. I've had many debates on SW and I never, ever lose, espeically in regards to the prequels. ALSO, for the utter and complete retards out there, there is NO flaw in the crawl- OBI WAN IS ALREADY A JEDI KNIGHT,(he and Jinn make two!) A BIG DEAL IS MADE OF HIM BEING A JEDI MASTER!!!!!!! KNOW THE DIFFERENCE! DUMB YOU ALL ARE.

  • March 15, 2010, 7:37 p.m. CST

    11Zombies

    by Kaitain

    "All you people who continue to bash the prequels: His review is making fun of you." <p> No it isn't.

  • March 15, 2010, 7:53 p.m. CST

    lets stop the bullshit....

    by ZodNotGod

    Spielberg was going to direct Jedi but Lucas was not a member of the Directors Guild- fucking unions! Greedo shooting first DOES NOT EXIST anymore so please shut up about it. The current DVDs have Greedo and Han shooting simultaneously. Geez, I'm tired of making you all look stupid.

  • March 15, 2010, 7:53 p.m. CST

    I meant HAN shoots first once again!

    by Cervantes

    See how much George has confused me over the years....<P>Damn his tinkering.

  • March 15, 2010, 7:58 p.m. CST

    Yes it is.

    by ZodNotGod

    Otherwise he's a nitpicking, moron cunt. Just once I wish there so-called internet journalists would have some back-bone and stick by their words. Harry sways with whoever throws him the proper bribe and Moriarty, is well, we know how he changes his mind. Quint, I recall your loveletter to TPM, now it's all about hate. Geez, its just very depressing.

  • March 15, 2010, 7:59 p.m. CST

    Nothing wrong with liking the Prequel Trilogy

    by one9deuce

    But calling them anything other than shit is just ignorance. I can guarantee that anyone here defending the PT doesn't know anything about screenwriting. The OT is well written. Fact. The scene in the Millenium Falcon when they are in the asteroid creature that ends up with Princess Leia in Han Solo's lap is a master class on writing. My God Lawrence Kasdan was a talented writer then and he absolutely crushed that script. <p> For chrisakes, just saying "Millenium Falcon" sounds cooler than anything in the Prequel Trilogy!

  • March 15, 2010, 7:59 p.m. CST

    I'm a true fan and the prequels are still pretty bad

    by SithMenace

    It's easy to generalize and say all prequel haters are not true fans, but it's just not true. Alot of them are true fans that are upset about the drop in quality from the OT to the PT, otherwise they just wouldn't care. I don't hate the prequels, but I don't love them either, they're just kind of there. But I am a true fan all the way and have been since I was 2, when I saw ANH in the theater.

  • March 15, 2010, 8:02 p.m. CST

    cricklewood

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    My understanding is he wanted the fight to be between primitives and a technologically advanced force. Because it was established Wookies weren't primitives, he had to go elsewhere. To bad he went where he went.

  • March 15, 2010, 8:05 p.m. CST

    You gotta be kidding

    by Kaitain

    "Greedo shooting first DOES NOT EXIST anymore so please shut up about it. The current DVDs have Greedo and Han shooting simultaneously." <p> How does Greedo manage to miss??!

  • March 15, 2010, 8:06 p.m. CST

    Zod not God...

    by The Dark Nolan

    Not a big deal to me but for the sake of accuracy, and in defense of Plinkett's review, if Obi Wan is already a Jedi Knight at the beginning, then why does Yoda say "Confer on you the level of Jedi Knight, the counsel does," at the end of Episode one? Seems you need to check your facts before making a bad point.

  • March 15, 2010, 8:08 p.m. CST

    ZodByGod

    by Kaitain

    Please believe me, this is not intended to be some arch meta-commentary on critics of TPM. (Laughs.) <p> "Otherwise he's a nitpicking, moron cunt." <p> Well, that's settled that, then. ZBG's law of the excluded middle has spoken.

  • March 15, 2010, 8:25 p.m. CST

    @Thunderbolt:

    by cricklewood

    Cheers for the info. Luckily the Wookiees weren't all celebrating Life Day when the Feds invaded, eh?

  • March 15, 2010, 8:26 p.m. CST

    So IndustryKiller!. Are you still refusing to accept

    by FamousEccles

    that the "plothole" isn't actually a plothole. Even Cobra Kai and his tiny penis were able to find a real plothole in the Saga.

  • March 15, 2010, 8:27 p.m. CST

    As for People VS George Lucas...

    by cricklewood

    Easy as shooting fish in a barrel. And way too late. I won't watch it anyway, I can get juicer verbal sparring right here on AICN!

  • March 15, 2010, 8:28 p.m. CST

    I wish the Wookies were celebrating

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I'd love to see a big Wookie dance routine

  • March 15, 2010, 8:44 p.m. CST

    one9deuce, that statement shows your own ignorance

    by FamousEccles

    how can you say it's okay to like something as long as the people who like it think it's shit? You are a stupid person.

  • March 15, 2010, 9:17 p.m. CST

    The night shift has arrived

    by Star Hump

    Begin the Endless Debate again. Is it going to be Leia's memories again or?

  • March 15, 2010, 9:19 p.m. CST

    Nerd Rage

    by Colt19801980

    "cultural phenomenons of our generation. Of course people are still talking about the prequels. You expect people to suddenly forget about Star Wars? Yeah ok."------------ No, I expect them to have moved on like normal adults after saying all that needs to be said about a film series. Silly me.

  • March 15, 2010, 9:34 p.m. CST

    It's one thing to still be talking ten years later...

    by StarWarsRedux

    ...about something that you love. That makes sense. <p>But when you're still talking ten years later about something you hate? That's just sad. Like the cavebound Japanese soldiers who didn't know WWII was over. Like Southerners flying the Confederate Flag. <p>Leave the Prequels to the people who actually like them, for crying out loud, and move on. It's better for everyone.

  • March 15, 2010, 9:42 p.m. CST

    OB1's robes

    by tao_pilot

    I was also confused about why Obi-Wan's robes from episode 4 became the standard Jedi robes, because.. why wouldn't Obi-Wan change into something else if he's in hiding? He changed his name. For that matter, why didn't they change Luke's last name? If they're hiding him from his father, was it really wise to bring him back to his father's home and keep his last name?

  • March 15, 2010, 10:15 p.m. CST

    tao_pilot

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I wondered the same thing about Luke. Why even bring him home to Tatooine? It's not like his aunt and uncle were close to dear ol' dad. Plus its a shitty desert planet. Meanwhile Leia gets to be raised in the lap of luxury.<p>As for the robes, a lot of people wear robes in Star Wars. Uncle Owen wears robes. <p>It's funny how bitter Own is in ANH considering how little he actually knew of Anakin. I suppose they could've hung out off screen. Just a quick scene in ROTS of Anakin dropping by for a tension filled brunch would have gone a long way, however.

  • March 15, 2010, 10:31 p.m. CST

    StarWarsRedux, those Japs where awesome.

    by FamousEccles

    a H-Bomb is cheating.

  • March 15, 2010, 10:36 p.m. CST

    AsimovLives:Only 1/3 of ROTJ is good???

    by Thanos0145

    If the attack on the Death Star II space battle is shit, name another movie since ROTJ that's better. There's nothing that's even comes close to it. (Yes, the prequel space battle in ROTS was shit.)

  • March 15, 2010, 10:49 p.m. CST

    Other great ROTJ moments

    by IndustryKiller!

    Luke and Leia talking about her memories of her mother, amazing acting and writing, particularly from Hamill, whose character arc over the course of the trilogy is probably the most natural of any character in any film saga.<P>The Luke Vader duel, chock full of pathos from beginning to end. The Emperor as an instigator is just one of the most frustratingly evil sons of bitches to ever grace the screen. the line "Your overconfidence is your weakness" retorted as if Luke was a meaningless insect with the inarguable "Your faith in your friends is yours!" is a fucking classic moment. I mean for christ sakes it shuts the hero right the fuck up.<P>And the entire Jabba scene, from the Rancor fight straight to the end. When you hear Luke, once the gangly naive kid from A New Hope utter the line "This is your last chance Jabba, free us....or die." and follow up the refusal with a casual "Last mistake you'll ever make." you have no doubt that Luke is a Jedi, and everything that entails. Bad ass.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:04 p.m. CST

    StarWarsRedux

    by Kaitain

    "It's one thing to still be talking ten years later about something that you love. That makes sense. But when you're still talking ten years later about something you hate? That's just sad. Like the cavebound Japanese soldiers who didn't know WWII was over. Like Southerners flying the Confederate Flag." <p> Or, say, people who rattle on about the My Lai massacre, or thalidomide. MOVE ON, PEOPLE! <p> Are these things equivalent in gravity with the badness of the Star Wars prequels? No. <p> Is your position untenable? Yes. People continue to lament lamentable things.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:11 p.m. CST

    Prequel bashers love Star Wars

    by Nerd Rage

    Which is why they care enough to comment on a 10 year old movie. But bashing the prequels on a talkback doesn't require some month-long devotion. You can bash the prequels in a matter of minutes so I don't get the "move on" thing. A negative comment on a messageboard doesn't take a huge level of commitment. People who need to "move on" are stalkers or the mortally vengeful, not people who have unchanged opinions about older movies. Who gives a shit if I resent an older movie? Some older movies should be resented. Especially if they were a wasted opportunity on the scale of the prequels. The bigger the opportunity wasted the longer the movie will be resented by the purists. That's just the way it is. So expect the prequels to be resented for at least 30 more years. Ha!

  • March 15, 2010, 11:17 p.m. CST

    I do think ROTJ's space battle is slightly lame

    by Kaitain

    It's nice compositing, but the narrative and the sense of geography are a bit weak. <p> It's a sequence that seems to be more about conveying a sense of spectacle than an engaging part of the narrative. One gets the impression that in the script it could quite easily have been described as: <P> SCENE 131 <p> SPACE BATTLE ABOVE ENDOR <p> Mayhem! Rebel and imperial pilots engage in dogfights with each other. Capital ships fire heavy weapons at various targets, while the smaller ships weave around them. There are losses on both sides. <p> ...and that's it. Fill in the gaps yourself, effects unit director. It's not like the Death Star battle where there are minor characters whom you get to know (a little), several distinct death star runs, periods where the turrets are the main risk then periods where the TIE fighters are the main risk, Luke helped out by Wedge, Biggs's death, the near-thing with Red Leader, Solo's timely arrival etc. There's an actual story to A New Hope's battle. In Jedi, it's just a bunch of kinetic hand-waving compositing (explosions! lasers! lots of fighters!) that acts as a holding pattern, a reminder of what's at stake, while the real story takes place on Endor and in the throne room. <p> After the shield goes down, it improves, with the tunnel run having something of a narrative. But before that, it's a whole lotta nothing.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:23 p.m. CST

    Wow

    by SwedishChef

    Much hostility here regarding the prequels. It's a matter of taste. If you like them, good for you. Some people like TF Revenge of the Fallen. And that movie was..well pretty bad. I will state this again, the problem with the prequels is the portrayal of Anakin. The whole saga working is contingent on the tragic fall of an apparent great man, Anakin. The prquels portray him as an arrogant and unlikeable jerk. Ergo, the whole saga falls in on itself. His courting of Amidala is creepy. He even says to her at one point that people should be made to agree with government. This is supposed to be a great hero? Personally, this portrayal of Anakin is a failure in the storytelling of the original trilogy. It makes the whole thing moot. When you watch the whole thing again and reach the point in ROTJ where Luke removes Vader's helmet, the moment is gone. The Jedi were also portrayed in the prequels as arrogant, self serving and pompous. Was this intentional? I mean they completely ignore the fact that Tatooine is actively practing slavery by using devices that blow up people's heads. What kind of defenders of the galaxy are these people anyway? Sigh.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:23 p.m. CST

    My biggest problem with Jedi

    by Kaitain

    Is that the direction is flat. <p>Richard Marquand was a journeyman. Not quite sure how he got the gig. Kershner's sense of style, his framing and lighting, his camera movement, the sets he oversaw...they're all a level of quality above those in Jedi. <p> Jedi looks like it was shot on sound stages with flat, boring lighting. Even though the lightsaber battle in Jedi is good in scripted form, with all the shit going on between Luke and Vader, the equivalent scene in Empire is much better directed. It feels visceral, real, grimy, threatening. Jedi feels somewhat cartoonish throughout, and it ain't just the ewoks and Jabba's muppets. Something about that whole movie has a flat, synthetic feel to it.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:23 p.m. CST

    Asimov I wish I could see you on cam posting this stuff

    by CarmillaVonDoom

    Is there any frothing involved?

  • March 15, 2010, 11:28 p.m. CST

    Good observations Kaitain

    by IndustryKiller!

    I agree with your points and the real meat of that scene is in the throne room, but I mean come on, that throne room scene would be literally impossible to top. And while the death star charge in ANH will always be THE classic cinematic space battle of all time, the Battle of Endor is still a wonderful spectacle and full of heart, something all space battles in the Prequels lack. And the oh shit moment of "ITS A TRAP!"/"THAT THINGS OPERATIONAL!" is perfect. The opening shot of the tie fighters and interceptors just descending upon the rebel forces is amazing. The chaos of the moment, guys making near kamakaze runs into star destroyers, is so wonderfully framed. I do think Han's place would have been better suited in that space battle. i would have loved to have seen him and Lando going back and forth as old pros.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:33 p.m. CST

    Kershner was a journeyman, too

    by StarWarsRedux

    Framing & camera movements weren't up to him, but Lucas via storyboards. Lighting ESPECIALLY wasn't up to him, but Peter Suschitzky, the cinematographer Lucas originally wanted for ANH and made sure to hire before anybody else in pre-production for ESB, even before Kersh was considered. <p>Oh, and My Lai? Lovely taste. Bashing hyperbole usually only runs to sex-crimes, and now we have war-crimes. I wonder how long before the Hellen Keller jokes start popping up.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:42 p.m. CST

    I just don;t see who anyone who loves the originals

    by slappy jones

    can seriously even remotely enjoy the prequels. especially AOTC which I is by far the worst of all. I would take caravan of courage of AOTC.I just rewatched the originals for the first time in a while and it is crystal clear what the problem is. The originals are stuffed with a sense of excitement and joy that is just not apparent in any of the prequels. No one seems to be enjoying themselves whatsoever. It is all so po faced and glum and...shit. Who is the han solo of the prequels? the characters are awful. the films terrible. stiff, awkward and worst of all BORING. I know its flogging a dead horse but I just cannot believe anyone who seriously loves the originals could defend the prequels in anyway.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:44 p.m. CST

    as for ROTK. jabbas palace is a great beginning.

    by slappy jones

    endor is a little flat sure but the film is no where near as bad as folks seem to claim it is. Ford seems to have checked out a bit but the film is following on empire. a tough task. I would still take ROTK over any of the prequels.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:44 p.m. CST

    I'd have rather George Raped my Childhood...

    by conspiracy

    than made the steaming piles that are the prequels. Unlike watching the prequels, a good old fashioned childhood raping might have allowed me to derived SOME small bit of passing pleasure from the act.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:45 p.m. CST

    Hyperbole

    by Kaitain

    "Bashing hyperbole usually only runs to sex-crimes, and now we have war-crimes" <p> Sorry if this sounds like an ad hominem, but that's quite a typical response from someone who is fairly weak at engaging with an argument. <p> Extreme examples are good at testing principles. If your principle is sound, it should be able to survive even extreme cases. But the weak practitioner of discourse will instead, as a first resort, point out its extreme nature as if that in itself constitutes a rebuttal. <p> It does not. Your position was that talking ten years later about something you hate is just sad. That position doesn't stand up to any serious scrutiny, so you will have to refine your claim to set the boundaries of the things of which it is indeed sad to maintain hatred ten years on.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:46 p.m. CST

    FamousEccles

    by one9deuce

    You're either incredibly dense or just.......ok, I guess incredibly dense is the only option. I absolutely love the movie BLOOD SPORT. Love it and quote it with my friends all the time. But I'm not under any illusion that it's high quality filmmaking. Just like I hated Fellini's 8 1/2 but I know that it is groundbreaking and high quality filmmaking. Films can be judged objectively, but enjoyed subjectively. <p> Here is the problem with the Prequel Trilogy summed up in one sentence: The OT was made by an incredibly talented filmmaker in his prime who wanted to change everything, the PT was made by the executive of a corporation who actively dislikes STAR WARS but needs it to keep all the divisions of Lucasfilm going strong. Period.

  • March 15, 2010, 11:52 p.m. CST

    Lamest effect in the original trilogy...

    by BurnHollywood

    When ten miles of Executor flagship slams into the Death Star II...ILM just composited an overhead shot of the model onto the Death Star, then replaced it with a flaming plume. EPIC FAIL.<p> Worse, when Lucas went back and redid some of the effects for the "Special Editions", it was the one effect noticeably unchanged. WTF.

  • March 16, 2010, 12:37 a.m. CST

    Thank You, Mr. P

    by Cobbio

    I agree with Mr. Plinkett one hundred percent. Saw the original in '77 and thought it was fantastic, but I loathe the prequels.<p> Plus I now hate George Lucas for turning into such an artlessly corporate, money-grubbing douchebag of epic proportions. Go fuck yourself George. You don't deserve my respect and you won't get it.<p> Thank you Mr. Plinkett for showing us why.

  • March 16, 2010, 12:43 a.m. CST

    BurnHollywood

    by Kaitain

    Re: Executor. <p> Agree 100%. <p> Lucas added a load of pointless shit like the CGI muppet song and dance routine in Jabba's palace, and left that giant turd of an effect in. <p> That explosion looked like something I might have put into a home movie.

  • March 16, 2010, 1:01 a.m. CST

    AOTC had one redeeming quality

    by DrAwkward

    When Anakin, Obi and Padme were chained to those columns, there was a glimmer of the OT. The dialogue wasn't as wooden for a brief minute or two. <p>Really, the only good thing to come out of the new trilogy is Star Wars Battlefront II. <p>That still doesn't make up for alien camel fart scenes.

  • March 16, 2010, 1:59 a.m. CST

    AOTC at least connected to the old films.

    by Orionsangels

    The birth of the stormtroopers. The deathstar plans. It reminds you, oh this is all leading up to Episode 4, but TPM was so detached from Star Wars. The planet Naboo didn't fit in Star Wars end was pointless.

  • March 16, 2010, 3:12 a.m. CST

    one9deuce, regarding your last post aimed at me

    by FamousEccles

    concerning denseness, etc. - at no point up to now in this talkback have I stated my opinions regarding the quality of either trilogy, Lucas' filmmaking, story, vfx, etc. My discussion with IndustryKiller! was in regard to plotholes and continuity goofs. Therefore your post is of absolutely no relevance. Try reading some posts before throwing out insults, lest you reveal YOURSELF to be the dense twat!!!

  • March 16, 2010, 3:15 a.m. CST

    Cobbio, Lucas doesn't need it. Sorry to let you down.

    by FamousEccles

    Plus, you shouldn't need this Pricklet guy to "show" you anything - you can judge these things for yourself.

  • March 16, 2010, 3:24 a.m. CST

    The "IT'S A TRAP" scene works

    by SithMenace

    in large part because of Williams' rousing score. I'm a huge fan of ROTJ but that scene has some of Williams best work of his career.

  • March 16, 2010, 3:26 a.m. CST

    IndustryKiller! - regarding your post above on

    by FamousEccles

    Hamill's character arc, the ROTJ lightsabre duel and giving Jabba a "last". Couldn't agree more, brother!!! The Final Duel is still my favourite scene(s) of the whole Saga. I'll never understand how Hamill didn't have a career like Ford's.

  • March 16, 2010, 3:36 a.m. CST

    ROTJ works. Period.

    by SithMenace

    The final battle is 45 minutes of chaos, but it works. There isn't anything in the prequels that can even come close.

  • March 16, 2010, 3:36 a.m. CST

    The Dark Nolan

    by AsimovLives

    By your faulty pseudo-logic, then nobody would actually like CITIZEN KANE, would they? There's no honest love for that movie, is that what you say? Fuck you, loser! Small wonder you are a JJ Abrams' ass kisser! Nice try to avoid the subvject, but you ar enot fooling me, loser. Now, again, tell me the wrong doings in character developement and story in CITIZEN KANE, so you cna justify your deranged dumb love for FRAUD TREK. Acuse CK and by comparison defend that FRAUD TREK shit, if you can.

  • March 16, 2010, 3:40 a.m. CST

    CarmillaVonDoom

    by AsimovLives

    Do you froth from your mouth when you see somebody criticise your beloved hackboy JJ Abrams and the shit movie he made?

  • March 16, 2010, 3:42 a.m. CST

    Thanos0145

    by AsimovLives

    You got me at great space battles, because frankly we have been pretty beref of space battles movies.

  • March 16, 2010, 3:52 a.m. CST

    Jesus fuckin christ...

    by TSTEWIE

    ...just watched entire holiday special on youtube...it...i...mother of...there are no...must sleep...must forget...must remember...wow...

  • March 16, 2010, 3:53 a.m. CST

    The prequels suck balls. End of story.

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    Plinkett's reviews were always awesome - except for the AVATAR ones. They suck royal monkey dick.

  • March 16, 2010, 4:15 a.m. CST

    Falling asleep to...

    by TSTEWIE

    Ewok Adventures: Caravan of Courage...fellow Star Wars fans: why do we do this to ourselves...?

  • March 16, 2010, 4:15 a.m. CST

    Asimov does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    Asimov, you never cease to amuse me. For a dude who's always ripping movies apart like a rabid dog on a jihad, we all know which movies you hate. But i've always been curious about which movies you actually rate.<p> Now we know... ATTACK OF THE CLONES.<p> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!! Aw fuck man, that's some funny shit.

  • March 16, 2010, 4:27 a.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    BurnHollywood, the Super Star Destroyer crashing into the Death Star was pretty hokey but it was still more convincing than AOTC's American diner scene. Ewan chatting to an extra from MONSTERS INC.

  • March 16, 2010, 4:34 a.m. CST

    On Hamills performance

    by IndustryKiller!

    We certainly agree on that Famouseccles. Hamill starts the trilogy epitomizing the wide eyed kid, giving every young man in the audience an avatar without being an empty vessel as a straight man. In Jedi he brings a gravitas to the role of Luke Im not even sure was on the page. He's constantly contemplative, zen, and yet there is a sadness in him that is JUST below the surface and makes him so fascinating and flawed. Everyone by the end of jedi seems to find some sort of happiness and completeness in victory, but I didn't get that from Luke. I felt like maybe his journey of self discovery was still in progress, and even if his destiny is clear, his peace of mind wasn't quite complete. That always fascinated me. I remember Hamill saying in an interview he was disappointed Lucas didn't go into darker territory with Jedi and he once even questioned him about it and got the typical "Well, its just a kids movie" response, but it seemed to me Hamill just acted in that movie anyway, and I give him all the credit in the world for it. I've always wanted to tell Mark Hamill how much I appreciate his performance, not just because its Star Wars, but because he grounded that character and brought such a sense of life and pathos to it. It's flat out genuinely good acting. Perhaps someday I will.

  • March 16, 2010, 5:08 a.m. CST

    Amen, brother. tell him I said so too.

    by FamousEccles

  • March 16, 2010, 6:41 a.m. CST

    Hope Lucas saw it

    by Dazzler69

    He's the one that needs to wake up to what a good Star Wars movie is. He should pass on the creative to someone else. We should have tv shows, more movies, and tons of toon shows by now. To say the least a blu ray versions of 4,5,6 ep's.

  • March 16, 2010, 7 a.m. CST

    THE PHANTOM MENACE will always be

    by ColonelFatheart

    the moment geeks were cast out of Eden. It is our Fall, our Original Sin. Our End of Innocence. <p>Eleven years on, the wound is still red, raw and ragged. Eleven years on, we're still wandering in the Desert of Bruised Minges. We don't trust anybody. We don't trust each other. We are a People Divided, lost and thirsty. <p>When will the Messiah come? Will we know it when He arrives? Who will redeem us? Who will redeem the Throat Sack? <p>I know who its, my brothers and sisters! I know! Search your hearts. You know, too.

  • March 16, 2010, 7:27 a.m. CST

    Interesting

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Someone above mentioned three "great" scenes from ROTJ, two of which to me are anything but (Luke and Leia's awkward conversation about "mom"; the sand barge "battle"). Different strokes.

  • March 16, 2010, 7:31 a.m. CST

    Kaitain

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Great point about the space battles. I'd never thought of it before, but it is true. Though if the ROTJ suffers in comparison narrative-wise with Star Wars, I don't think that necessarily damns the whole thing. Certainly it is lacking in that department though.

  • March 16, 2010, 7:39 a.m. CST

    Avatar?

    by KEVIN_COSTNERS_RECYCLED_PISS

  • March 16, 2010, 7:44 a.m. CST

    one9deuce

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    "Here is the problem with the Prequel Trilogy summed up in one sentence: The OT was made by an incredibly talented filmmaker in his prime who wanted to change everything, the PT was made by the executive of a corporation who actively dislikes STAR WARS but needs it to keep all the divisions of Lucasfilm going strong"<p>People make movies passionately and earnestly all the time and they come out shitty. The converse is also true, though less often.<p>Anyway I think it's bugnuts to suggest Lucas dislikes Star Wars. You're basically suggesting the guy is clinically insane and should probably be locked up, because only a person dangerous to themselves or others would mount the gargantuan effort it would take to direct three movies on the scale of the prequels if they actively disliked the subject matter. You might have an argument if he delegated, but he didn't. Like, at all. Which some would argue is the real problem with the prequels (not me).

  • March 16, 2010, 7:48 a.m. CST

    My Star Wars Saga reviews (out of five stars)...

    by I AM ROCKO

    ...TPM- two stars; AOTC- three stars; ROTS- four stars; ANH- five stars; ESB- five stars; ROTJ- four stars. 'Nuff said...

  • March 16, 2010, 7:57 a.m. CST

    Cobra--Kai

    by AsimovLives

    If SW fanboys didn't had their heads up their asses and had their brain paralized by THE PHANTOM MENACE's faults and failure,s they would udnerstand, without need to go to college, why ATTACK OF THE CLONES is one damn good fun old fashioned adventure movie. The emphasis on old fashioned. Yeah, the tricks of the trade that were used to make it are state of the art modern (for 2003) technology, but the way ther story is told is old fashioned adventure film fun.<br><br>It's for reasons like this that i thank my lucky stars i'm no SW fanboy.<br><br>That said, THE PHANTOM MENACE is a movie with some serious prblems, but i would still take it over any Micheel Bay or JJ Abrams retard bullshit any day of the week. There's nothing that those two assclowns ever did in their whole careers that can match the cool and excitement of the TPM lightsable fight between the two Jedis and Darth Maul. Anybody who thinks that scene alone is not great is not just dumb, but fucking stupid and should get his Luke Skywalker action figure out of his fucking ass!

  • March 16, 2010, 7:57 a.m. CST

    ROTJ's fucking teddy bears are as bad as Jar Jar Binks

    by AsimovLives

    And i fucking hate Jar Jar Binks.

  • March 16, 2010, 8:01 a.m. CST

    Redeem yourselves!

    by ColonelFatheart

    You know the path. You know the answer. Shed yourselves of the burden of the Prequel Trilogy. <p>The path is there. It's right in front of you, in three dimensions ...

  • March 16, 2010, 8:06 a.m. CST

    You SW original trilogy fanboys about Geroge Lucas...

    by AsimovLives

    ... you all sound like teenagers who discovered, for the first time, that their own dad is not perfect but a man with flaws and who makes mistakes. To quote form another well known Sf classic, it's as if you have met your own Childhood's End. Yeah, Lucas is not perfect. Yeah, Lucas can make mistakes. Yeah, Lucas is not God. Fucking get over it already!<br><br>You know, i actually can understand your sentiments, because there's a similiar moment for me about who was then my favorite director, ridley Scott. and that moment was when i saw WHITE SQUALL. The moment when i noticed, for the fust time, that Scott can really fuck things up. The man is merely mortal, and not some unfailable God. And to make matters worst, he had to turn the knife with another bad movie, GI JANE. Yeah, i felt disapointment. i was this close to give up on the man forever. Thankfull, there was Gladiator. but with that movie, i no longer felt he was the unfallible dad that let his kid down. Now i saw him aas for what he is, a man who can make good movies, but also bad movies. I see him now as a human being. It's called emotional grow up.<br><br>And the fucking SW fanboys who keep on calling Lucas the devil for his failures for THE PHANTOM MENACE, that he didn't delivered the amazing perfect Sw movies that you were expecting it to be, and that you keep on mistaking the other two prequel movies for bad movies, really, just grow the fuck up! It's about time you stop this teenager whinning! Yeah, your dad is not perfect, DEAL WITH IT! Hey, you want to know soemthing? The original SW trilogy is not perfect either. FUCKING DEAL WITH IT!

  • March 16, 2010, 8:10 a.m. CST

    ColonelFatheart

    by AsimovLives

    You proselytizing AVATAR? On a SW talkback? It takes some nerve and balls, young man. I can't help kinda admire that.

  • March 16, 2010, 8:11 a.m. CST

    The New Way is before us.

    by ColonelFatheart

    I, too, was blind once, but now I can see ... in 3D! <p>J.C. has brought us Salvation itself. Open your eyes! Embrace the Lord's AVATAR and find yourself redeemed, with the stain of the Prequels washed away!

  • March 16, 2010, 8:13 a.m. CST

    The Game has been Changed, my brothers and sisters!

    by ColonelFatheart

    The Transfiguration is complete! Your redemption is here!

  • March 16, 2010, 8:14 a.m. CST

    AsimovLives

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Sorry if you've been over this before, but seriously, why the hate hard on for JJ Abrams? It seems personal. Go ahead, share with the group.

  • March 16, 2010, 8:14 a.m. CST

    Be Baptized in Blue!

    by ColonelFatheart

  • March 16, 2010, 8:21 a.m. CST

    Cameron the Redeemer loves you.

    by ColonelFatheart

    Embrace him. Embrace his AVATAR. Embrace his sacrifice. <p>Forgive the ThroatSack! Cast off your chains of Jar-Jar hatred! Embrace the Big Blue Love!

  • March 16, 2010, 8:48 a.m. CST

    Even 3D won't sort out the Prequel issues....

    by Cervantes

    ....but I sure can't wait to see what 'adywan' does with them, as he's planning a lot of changes.<P>He's also planning to make the final ROTJ episode's final space battle the most immense one of the lot when he gets onto 'ROTJ:Revisited' next. Now THAT I want to see.

  • March 16, 2010, 9:53 a.m. CST

    Wookies became Ewoks because of budget

    by Dr. Hfuhruhurr

    Too costly. He may have reasoned that fans wouldn't accept primitive Wookies, but that wasn't the reason Lucas changed them to Wookies for ROTJ. And Avatar sucks as much as the prequels. At least the prequels were original stories.

  • March 16, 2010, 10:35 a.m. CST

    don't understand the Abrams hate either

    by Star Hump

    Sure the new Star Trek is fucking horrible, but so were the majority of the original movies. The new Star Trek is just par for the course.

  • March 16, 2010, 10:40 a.m. CST

    INDUSTRYKILLER!

    by BringingSexyBack

    Hey that was a great post about Mark Hamill. Never thought of it like that, but you're right. He was the only part of ROTJ who didn't reek of cheese. Had Lucas had his way, he might've been dancing with ewoks.

  • March 16, 2010, 10:45 a.m. CST

    I HATE LUCAS FOR PURGING THE YUB NUB SONG

    by BringingSexyBack

    He is to me as JJ is to Asimov. Just because I'm not verbose about it doesn't mean my hatred is any less intense.

  • March 16, 2010, 10:46 a.m. CST

    I LIKE THE EWOKS

    by BringingSexyBack

    I have a thing for primitive natives.

  • March 16, 2010, 10:53 a.m. CST

    ColonelFatheart

    by AsimovLives

    TESTIFY!!! TESTIFY!!!!<br><br>Wait a moment, why am I rapturing on AVATAR? I don't think the movie is as awesome and magnificent as many claim it is. Damn it, i got carried away!

  • March 16, 2010, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Avatar is superior to the prequels

    by Nerd Rage

    All the prequels are a series of boring diplomat dramas peppered with glow stick sword fights and forced connections to the original trilogy. Avatar had an actual story and had scenes that brings people to tears. Not to mention conveys an alien world that puts the prequels to shame. I can't even imagine any of the prequels being considered for best picture let alon nominated. The prequels were complete jokes.

  • March 16, 2010, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Mark Hamill luke acting: underrated

    by FleshMachine

    he is dismissed as annoying and whiny..yeah.. but that's luke. original trilogy is magic...the new ones...zero magic

  • March 16, 2010, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Mark Hamill luke acting: underrated

    by FleshMachine

    he is dismissed as annoying and whiny..yeah.. but that's luke. original trilogy is magic...the new ones...zero magic

  • March 16, 2010, 11:08 a.m. CST

    4-5-6: magic, 1-2-3: no magic.

    by FleshMachine

    thats all there is to it in the end.

  • March 16, 2010, 11:12 a.m. CST

    Don't resist, Asi!

    by ColonelFatheart

    Embrace it! Embrace the Ecstasy of Blue Redemption! Embrace J.C.'s grace!

  • March 16, 2010, 11:14 a.m. CST

    WHAT BOTHERS ME IS THE SERIES NEVER MADE CLEAR

    by BringingSexyBack

    if Luke ever got his power converters. I hope so. Maybe the novelizations can shed some light. I'll research.

  • March 16, 2010, 11:14 a.m. CST

    Thunderbolt Ross

    by AsimovLives

    Not understanding criticism and "hate", so to speak, against JJ Abrams is like not understanding why water is wet.<br><br>In fact, in truth i tell you that don't hate JJ Abrams. Hate is not a good description of my feelings for the JJ Abrams old boy. Loathing, despite, disgust, disrespect, avertion, scorn, spite, vexation, irritation, contemp and despise are more accurate descriptions. As a SF fan i feel mortified, chagrin, fretful and vexed. There is only one filmmaker i really hate, and that's Michael Bay. But if JJ Abrams makes another movie like FRAUD TREK, he will be in Bay's company.

  • March 16, 2010, 11:16 a.m. CST

    SAD THING IS, I DON'T THINK LUKE EVER GOT LAID

    by BringingSexyBack

    Unless he had a girlfriend sometime between eps 3 and 4? Does anyone know?

  • March 16, 2010, 11:21 a.m. CST

    I HEARD THERE WERE A RASH OF YOUNGLING MOLESTATION CASES

    by BringingSexyBack

    in the Dagobah diocese. Yoda covered it up.

  • March 16, 2010, 11:22 a.m. CST

    ColonelFatheart

    by AsimovLives

    You are asking too much from an atheist. But i'm sure in your proselytization, you will be sucessful in making some SW geeks apostate their SW faith. I mean, you have the prequels to help your argument, don't you? If you ask me, many SW geeks have lost their religion, and are begging to accept a new blind dogma to rule their lives. Though truth be told, you are getting the sloppy seconds of the LOTR proselytization that went a few years ago.

  • March 16, 2010, 11:23 a.m. CST

    I CAN'T EXPLAIN IT BUT AVATAR HAS THAT "YOU ARE THERE"

    by BringingSexyBack

    feeling that Star Wars lacks.

  • March 16, 2010, 11:25 a.m. CST

    A SHAVED WOOKIE PUSSY WOULD LOOK BIZARRE

    by BringingSexyBack

    To say the least.

  • March 16, 2010, 11:27 a.m. CST

    SISTER OR NO, I WOULD'VE HIT THAT

    by BringingSexyBack

  • March 16, 2010, 11:28 a.m. CST

    (AS REGARDS TO LEIA)

    by BringingSexyBack

    Not wookies.

  • March 16, 2010, 11:28 a.m. CST

    BringingSexyBack

    by AsimovLives

    So the SW religion is like catholicism, heh? Who are the protestants, then?

  • March 16, 2010, 11:29 a.m. CST

    And as important...

    by AsimovLives

    ... who are the muslim? And the jews?

  • March 16, 2010, 11:35 a.m. CST

    WELL, SINCE YOU ASKED

    by BringingSexyBack

    In The Chin's universe, Watto is a Jew, the Trade Fed bastards are Asian, the Sand People are Arabs, the Gungans are African and the Sith are probably the Protestants.

  • March 16, 2010, 11:36 a.m. CST

    STAR WARS is to Judaism as AVATAR is to Christianity.

    by ColonelFatheart

    Wander in the desert no more, my brothers and sisters! AVATAR is here to redeem your sorrow!

  • March 16, 2010, 11:39 a.m. CST

    WELL, JAMES CAMERON'S INITIALS *ARE* J.C. ...

    by BringingSexyBack

  • March 16, 2010, 12:04 p.m. CST

    BringingSexyBack

    by AsimovLives

    Believe it or not, i read the SW novelization before i watched the blessed movie.

  • March 16, 2010, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Jesus Christ, James Cameron is named like Jesus

    by AsimovLives

    Fucking hell, John Connor's inicials are also JC, like Jesus Christ. And James Cameron. And if AVATAR is christianity, who the fuck is John The Baptist?

  • March 16, 2010, 12:09 p.m. CST

    The Sith are protestants, hem?

    by AsimovLives

    I did noticed they doth protest too much.

  • March 16, 2010, 12:24 p.m. CST

    Cameron fanboys are John the Baptist.

    by ColonelFatheart

    They were preaching "game-changer!" and "eyeball fucking" for years. And they were beheaded for their preaching. I was one of the persecutors. But I was blinded on the road to Pandora, and now I can REALLY see!

  • March 16, 2010, 12:59 p.m. CST

    to me Sith=fascists Jedi=socialists kinda...

    by MurderMostFowl

    I don't see it as religous really... And I don't mean that as some veiled attempt to throw in politics into this TB, I mean at their philosophical core of how they believe problems should be solved. Neither are better than the other per se<BR><BR> akin to what Palpatine says says that they both seek power and don't want to lose it. <BR><BR>

  • March 16, 2010, 1:02 p.m. CST

    ColonelFatheart

    by AsimovLives

    You had your road to Damascus moment, hem?

  • March 16, 2010, 1:02 p.m. CST

    I just noticed that ColonelFatheart is Saint Fucking Paul

    by AsimovLives

  • March 16, 2010, 1:04 p.m. CST

    MurderMostFowl

    by AsimovLives

    In SW, the commander of the death Star calls the Jedi's ways as religious superstition. He says so to the face of Darth Vader, no less.

  • March 16, 2010, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Leia as the Not So Virgin Mary

    by AsimovLives

  • March 16, 2010, 1:15 p.m. CST

    I May Be Late To This Party....

    by Pawprint

    But Plinkett's review and IndustryKiller are correct. TPM and the entire PT are fucking awful!<p> There are also two completely fucked arguments that PT apologists use in defense of the PT that just don't fly:<p> 1. "The dialogue is just as bad in the OT"; Agreed - the written dialogue is bad, however, the delivery and quality of the acting far exceeds that of the PT, and sells it. Contrast the following:<p> Jake Lloyd's completely joyless and flat "Yippee." in the PT with Han Solo's jubilant "Yeeeeeee-HAAAAH!" during the Death Star attack in the OT. George Lucas can't even get an excited yell out of a seven-year old?! Also, look at the apparently genuine jubilation and celebration on Luke's return from the Death Star attack in the OT, compared to the 'celebration' at the end of TPM; it speaks volumes that the CGI characters show more emotion than the actors, who smile joylessly, glassy-eyed, as if to say "What the fuck's happening?".<p> 2. "If you think you could do better..." - I answer that challenge thusly; I can't cook for toffee, but I can tell when I am being served shit instead of steak, dickheads.<p> The biggest problems with the PT have all been brought out; Lucas had nobody willing to rein him in, he went overboard on the CG, the story made no fucking sense whatsoever, it wasn't exciting, too many main characters, the acting was SHIT and most importantly, there was no sense of peril in any of the PT films, because we already know who lives and dies.<p> Lucas' revisionist bollocks and frantic attempts to squeeze everything into ROtS and wrap it up neatly makes it rushed and laughable. The final duel is frankly cringeworthy - during a pitched battle with melee weapons, the two fighters are stood within arms reach of each other and spend about 2 seconds (which is an AGE in a sword fight) just spinning and waving their sabres - not even trying to hit each other! WTF?! This sums up the entire PT - flashy, showy, visuals over substance. Also, when they are on those lava droids, that is some of the worst CGI I have ever seen in a film with that budget and pedigree, which adds to the rushed feel.<p> Utter shite.<p> Rant over.

  • March 16, 2010, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Star Wars is no Ice Pirates.

    by Dingbatty

  • March 16, 2010, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Seriously, though, the prequel stuff works

    by Dingbatty

    when other people are handling it, even as disparate as they may be, such as Genndy's version of the Clone Wars, or the new CG Clone Wars show.

  • March 16, 2010, 1:42 p.m. CST

    Other People Handling the PT Only works..

    by Pawprint

    Because they do not handle any of Lucas' shitty PT canon. They tend to make their own stories in his Universe, just addressing broader themes or events. None of the expanded Universe stuff has any real impact, outcome or effect on the films - obviously it can't, so they tend not to tread on ground covered by the films.<p> Basically, the TV series' and all are just sci-fi with a SW flavour. Not necessarily a bad thing...

  • March 16, 2010, 1:42 p.m. CST

    Guys, Guys, Guys... can't we all just get along?

    by NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks

    Oh, and as an unafilliated agnostic, I will gladly bow before James Cameron. <p> I still get 70+ virgins right?

  • March 16, 2010, 1:56 p.m. CST

    NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks

    by AsimovLives

    Everybody getting along in here? You should know better then that.<br><br>As for Cameron's paradise, i'm affraid it's about having 70 na'vis singing the fucking movie score for all eternity. I call that hell.

  • March 16, 2010, 2:01 p.m. CST

    The Droid Factory scene with C-3PO in AOTC

    by Samuel Fulmer

    Was awful. I mean it made that Droids cartoon from the 1980's look classic in comparison.

  • March 16, 2010, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Droid Factory Scene was

    by TRON

    nothing but a video game storyboard

  • March 16, 2010, 2:45 p.m. CST

    AVATAR redeems all!

    by ColonelFatheart

  • March 16, 2010, 2:46 p.m. CST

    AVATAR redeems all!

    by ColonelFatheart

  • March 16, 2010, 2:46 p.m. CST

    AVATAR redeems all!

    by ColonelFatheart

  • March 16, 2010, 2:46 p.m. CST

    AVATAR redeems all!

    by ColonelFatheart

  • March 16, 2010, 2:46 p.m. CST

    AVATAR redeems all!

    by ColonelFatheart

  • March 16, 2010, 2:46 p.m. CST

    AVATAR redeems all!

    by ColonelFatheart

  • March 16, 2010, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Brilliant review, but...

    by Jesus of Suburbia

    the Episode 2 review will be much improved by scaling back the feeble dark humor.

  • March 16, 2010, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Put this Prequel Trilogy nonsense behind you!

    by ColonelFatheart

    The Way is here, and it's in 3D.

  • March 16, 2010, 2:59 p.m. CST

    AsimovLives

    by CarmillaVonDoom

    I have to say that you don't answer the questions put to you very well. WHY the hate-hard-on for JJ? And for the record, I was entertained by Star Trek but wouldn't put it in my top 10 for last year. And Star Wars ratings: I: 2/10 II: 5/10 III: 5/10 IV: 8/10 V: 8.5/10 VI: 7.5/10

  • March 16, 2010, 3:31 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    Carmilla, no 10 outta 10 for EMPIRE? Ooh you're a hard taskmaster.

  • March 16, 2010, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Ah, the age old debate....who can hide from it?

    by BLEST

    Even when attempts to remain bi-partisan are in place, and the effort to offer nuetral opinions on films is given.....THIS one issue always decides how every one else sees you.<p>(sigh)<p>Well, no bother... I'm afraid of nobody so let the flaming begin...<p>I like the Prequels. I really like 'em.<p>Are they as good as the Originals? Of course not. Are they cheezy and wooden in places? Of course they are. Is there alot that was done wrong and alot that REALLLLY could've been done better with more drama, emotional impact, and epic (almost spiritual)effect on film history? <p>Yes.<p>But "that said", I still like them. Heck, in theaters I flat out loved them. Now of course, upon repeat viewings I'm very aware of the plot-holes, unfulfilled opportunities and straight up blunders that are in the 3 films. But when I saw them I was 16, 19, and 22. I grew up as an 80's kid who watched the OT on vhs (and BETA before that) probably 600 times.<p>For me, the PT was awesome. I had no pre-concieved ideas of what should be there. I just went to watch. I was probably at the right age for it, because I could reference it to what was in all the old films and see the connections, but not so old and jaded that I couldn't accept this new vision.<p>Awesome moments in the PT:<p>EP1 - The teaster poster (anakin shadow = vader shadow) and trailer actually are great moments, lol<p>The 2 jedi in the beginning going bezerk and killing droids and melting doors...really just going all out in Jedi action like had never been seen in the OT. <p>The first helicopter shot of the Naboo planet.<p>After Qui-gon mentions how fast and dangerous pod racing is, there's a quiet pause, then somewhat boldy "I'm the only human who can do it." (note: Jake Lloyd was shite, but that was a good little beat)<p>Liam and Ewan are acting just fine in the whole movie, IMO.<p> The moment when the doors open and Maul is revealed, the non-jedi scatter, and the 3 warriors just remove their robes silently = EPIC. Then the lightsabers ignite, Williams score swells and the singers in SANSKRIT come on behind the instruments. (very few modern movies have that level of greatness in the whole film, let alone a scene)<p>The scene of qui-gon "praying" and his death. And obi-wan bursting through the door in righteous anger and puttin Maul on his arse and breaking his saber in half = WIN.<p>The funeral scene with Qui-gon's burning body and the question from Anakin to Obi-wan "what will happen to me now?" "the council have given me permission to train you. You will be a Jedi, I promise" followed by a slow blurring of all the characters to close up on Palaptine.<p>EP2<p>The whole section of Anakin losing his mom is well done and Chritensen actually does his best acting of the series here, IMO. His confession to Padme about how he killed the woman and the children too and you see his hate/anger mixed with regret is really good. <p>The little bit when he jumps in to stop Dooku from killing Obi-wan and Dooku taunts him about learning his lesson, there's a great little moment where Anakin just stares at him and with his defiance and power surging underneath says, "I am a slow learner." is awesome. It really is the heart of his character in that film. He's got issues and he knows it, but there's greatness in him and he'll stand up to fight anyway.<p>The marriage scene is really good, just aesthetically and musically. <p>EP3 has tons of great moments, and many have been listed in this TB.<p> <p>In the end, the PT is chock-full of screw-ups, parts of the acting are dreadful (portmans worst stuff EVER), and I would've done alot of it different.<p>But it's starwars, and I like it.<p>Btw, my fave film is ESB, natch.

  • March 16, 2010, 5:04 p.m. CST

    I don't think I could give a 10/10 lightly

    by CarmillaVonDoom

    8.5 is a high rating!! ☺

  • March 16, 2010, 5:05 p.m. CST

    Jesus Asimov.

    by The Dark Nolan

    You keep proving that you are clearly a kid. I didn't knock Citizen Kane at all, NOT AT ALL. YOU are the one avoiding giving an argument of substance and considering how awful your spelling is, I know for a fact that you must be like 8 years old. I told you, until you argue an actual point, we are done. And again, Fraud Trek isn't an argument. I'm not even sure what Fraud Trek means, sounds like an insult I heard when I was in preschool. Fuck off little boy.

  • March 16, 2010, 6:07 p.m. CST

    Agreed, Carmilla. 10/10's are rare

    by StarWarsRedux

    I do know that I'd rate any movie from the PT much, MUCH higher than the likes of LOTR, Avatar, or anything JJ Abrams has done since the pilot for "Lost". Hell, even TDK ranks below the Prequels to me-- don't get me wrong, it's a fun movie, but the plot doesn't make a lick of sense.

  • March 16, 2010, 6:13 p.m. CST

    First Quint - Thanks for those video reviews

    by 900LBGorilla

    That was FREAKING HILARIOUS.

  • March 16, 2010, 6:13 p.m. CST

    CORRECTION QUINT-THERE IS A RIGHT AND WRONG

    by 900LBGorilla

    Should Lucas re-cut his films and add in a ton of dancing cartoons? <p> Of course he should if that’s what pleases him. <p> Should Lucas effectively ERADICATE the original versions of these films as well. (Films which he may have been the prime creator of, but also which are collaborative efforts-indeed 2 of 3 of which he did not even direct) <p> OFFUCKINGCOURSE NOT LucASS is an art and history-destroying asshole of the very first order. Indeed he is rewriting the book on the subject. <p> If the rest of Hollywood engaged in such a travesty there would be a righteous outcry. Can you IMAGINE this being done to The Godfather, Jaws, or even Rocky. Let alone films like Citizen Kane? <p> This is wrong even with less significant films, or if the change is an improvement….but Star Wars was a landmark- and LucASS’s STATED INTENT is to eradicate the film in favor of some lamely re-imagineered turd…because that’s what he is…a turd.

  • March 16, 2010, 6:26 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    Carmilla, you don't give 10/10 lightly? Girl, one night with the dojo and you'd be awarding 11...

  • March 16, 2010, 6:57 p.m. CST

    Whirling lightsabers instead of hitting eachother---

    by jimbojones123

    I am no ninja, or kung Fu master, but I have no Idea why Jedi are concidered cool when they look like they are leading a parade? <p> I really miss the dirty fights of strength. POTC, more than any other movie ever WAY overdid the sword suff until ROTS! That end fight was stupid! Take out the other guys floatie things with the force over the LAVA and it's over.

  • March 16, 2010, 7:49 p.m. CST

    Why ROTJ kicks ass

    by jimbojones123

    1. The slow reveal of what the hell a Hutt is and the shitty underworld it lives in. Han may have been a badass pilot, but what a crappy place to work out of. Mos Eisley looks like a vacationers paradise compared to that shithole. <p> 2. Han thawing and Leia revealand Han's reaction -- awesome! If you think Ford is mailing it in, his recovery from the carbonite is greatness. <p> 3. Han and Chewie reunite -- tears at me for a moment and adds more exposition than most scenes in the SW universe. <p> 4. Luke's OH SHIT scene with the Rancor. "Don't get cocky, kid!" <p> 5. The diving board and music leading up are one of the best adventure music/scene marriages ever. <p> 6. Yoda crokes, but does not appear to Luke, Ben does. Luke gets some last advice from the man that starts his journey. <p> 7. Dying Bothans make me sad. Before the EU taught me that all Bothans are DICKS, this is a somber moment to explain how willing some were to give everything for the slightest chance to help! <p> 8. Biker Scouts are not the fuckups that stormtroopers are. They can do a little more than just get shot. <p> 9. 3POs story to the Ewoks is awesome with Han and Leia having their first official tender moment. <p> 10. LUKE SURRENDERS HIMSELF TO VADER. We have seen nothing but a teetering Jedi out of Luke so far this film. Shot, lost his sis to Ewoks, master died, endangering the mission, he was no confident Jedi Knight. But this was the first scene where we finally thought Luke was ready for Vader after having his ass handed to him. Vader also finally becomes human. Both Luke and Vader's disappointment at what could be is one of the strongest moments in the saga. <p> 11. R2 gets shot. The one sure fire thing in Star Wars was that R2 could fix ANYTHING he could computer link with. This was when they needed him more than ever -- he gets shot. This is a very dark and awakening moment for our heroes. Leia is also shot. Things are going to get dirty. <p> 12. Space battle is still untouched. There is so much crap everywhere. But, it all makes sense. <p> <p>13. The throne scene has more emotions than any other scene in the saga. Dense beyond belief.<p> 14. Lando's unconfident flying. I love that Han is not flying the Falcon here. It says an adds much more to both characters, and would you really want Han stuck in a cockpit instead of on the planet kicking ass? <p> 15. The slow Star Wars theme as Vader dies. Williams is the second most important character in this Series behind Luke. <p> 16. This is Luke's story. It is all about him. The Han / Leia subplot takes a back seat and even requires Luke in it this time. Much less scattershooting this time around. Keep the focus on the farmboy.<p> 17. Stormtrooper and Biker Scout bongos / fireworks / a burning Vader / three ghosts and three nods of approval / "he's my bro" putting Han in his place for being a little bitch / Yub-yub / segue to credits. It is the perfect ending. All loose ends tied up. Only thing for the third trilogy to touch is "your kids, something has to be done about your kids!".<p> Seriously, if Lucas were ever to do 7-9 --- look at the Star Wars Legacy comics series. Cade Skywalker would be Awesome on screen. This series was MADE for the big screen.

  • March 16, 2010, 7:53 p.m. CST

    I forgot number 10.

    by jimbojones123

    Nein Numb talks shit to Lando. These two are fun.

  • March 16, 2010, 7:55 p.m. CST

    AsimovLives that's not what I meant

    by MurderMostFowl

    I didn't say the Characters in the movie didn't view it as religion. Some talkbackers were equating the characters with real world religions and I was saying I always saw their views more political at times in the prequels. Wait a second, you were even participating in that discussion. I think you need to go lie down for a bit. ;)

  • March 16, 2010, 8:14 p.m. CST

    BringSexyBack... "you are there"

    by MurderMostFowl

    To be fair, CGI has come a long way since the prequels. All of the prequel landscapes and large battles look very odd at times. I think you have to actually give props to WETA for improving large scale battle CGI. Lucas suffers horribly from CGI multiplication issues. When all the crappy battle droids are on screen your eyes can immediately notice that they are too perfect, they line up to well, the walk too similarly. In reality a bunch of identical robots probably *could* pull that off, but as humans we see it as fake looking.

  • March 16, 2010, 8:21 p.m. CST

    I'm not taking a shot at Pawprint

    by Jaka

    And I understand you point - it's a good one actually. But comparing "yippeee" and "yeeee-haaaaw"! just cracked me the hell up.

  • March 16, 2010, 8:21 p.m. CST

    Your

    by Jaka

    Stupid R button.

  • March 16, 2010, 8:29 p.m. CST

    General Grievous

    by Anything But Tangerines

    could have been the most badass character in the history of cinema, instead he was written as an afflicted coward. The problem was, they made him almost invincible, so they had to cripple him and kill him off cheaply just to move on with the story. Motherfucker could weild 5 lightsabers at the same time and any possible way he wanted to because he was a basically a trained killing machine with a warrior's brain.

  • March 16, 2010, 8:33 p.m. CST

    by Anything But Tangerines

    not to mention a brilliant war strategist

  • March 16, 2010, 9:03 p.m. CST

    No no no Asslives-it's the Back End of Klones that's okay.

    by Sal_Bando

    You however happen to prefer the Back End of Goats. Okay? Klones are one thing. Goats are another. Klones are those troopers you see in the prequels. Goats are your girl and boyfriends in Almada. <p> Repeat after me. Klones. Goats. Goats, Klones. <p> You like the back end of Goats. It's your fave Sequel to the Ibex Menace. You know it, we know it, so please-<p> Sod yourself and your Porto leper colony-Today!

  • March 16, 2010, 10 p.m. CST

    Blest..

    by nolan bautista

    ..good observations..we gotta hang out sometime..

  • March 16, 2010, 10:59 p.m. CST

    Ditto

    by ZodNotGod

    It's one thing to still be talking ten years later... by StarWarsRedux Mar 15th, 2010 09:34:01 PM ...about something that you love. That makes sense. But when you're still talking ten years later about something you hate? That's just sad. Like the cavebound Japanese soldiers who didn't know WWII was over. Like Southerners flying the Confederate Flag. Leave the Prequels to the people who actually like them, for crying out loud, and move on. It's better for everyone. Greivous was meant to be a distraction. He was not a coward, he doing what he was told- to distract and take Kenobi out of the picture for a bit. Lame. I like this. Read it. Learn it. Live it. Another poet once said, "Drink your fucking milk and shut your fucking mouth."

  • March 16, 2010, 11:15 p.m. CST

    Star Wars: Legacy

    by CarmillaVonDoom

    After reading the synopsis, it sounds like a very solid direction.

  • March 17, 2010, 12:08 a.m. CST

    FamousEccles

    by one9deuce

    You specifically cited my username and asked me a direct question. I answered it. Then you act irate and say you weren't even speaking to me. Scroll up, your question directed at me personally is right there somewhere above my answer. Please, get back on your meds. For the sake of the people in your non-cyberspace life.

  • March 17, 2010, 5:41 a.m. CST

    Suck_Blando, go fuck yourself

    by AsimovLives

    Get raped by JJ Abrams and die.

  • March 17, 2010, 6:01 a.m. CST

    CarmillaVonDoom

    by AsimovLives

    What boggles my mind is that i would even had to explain why JJ Abrams's FRAUD TREK is a bad movie. I could offer the whole Hoth sequence as proof without any explanation whatsoever for a final definitive smoking gun proof. That you would even need an explanation for one of the most obvious thing about modern cinema is bewildering beyond concepttion. It's like having to explain why water is wet. To call it obvious is an understatment.

  • March 17, 2010, 6:26 a.m. CST

    Young padwans, don't hate

    by BumLove

    Hate leads to anger, and anger leads to the dark side.

  • March 17, 2010, 6:41 a.m. CST

    Anything But Tangerines

    by AsimovLives

    I agree that there was huge potential for General Grievous. I guess the character came out much more interesting and charismatic then it's creators anticipated.

  • March 17, 2010, 6:47 a.m. CST

    BumLove

    by AsimovLives

    And the dark side is more fun. Look at the Emperor, he's always laughing, always finding the funny side even in tragedy.

  • March 17, 2010, 8:34 a.m. CST

    I want out of Star Wars but I read this entire TB....

    by codecrackx15

    I'm done with Star Wars and yet I read this entire talk back. I agree with Industry Killer on the screw up of killing off Padme in child birth. There were no force memories is was a screw up and nothing more. How come Obiewan had to be told by Yoda in Empire that there is another that could be the Saviour if Luke messed up? He wouldn't have to be told that if he knew that Leigha was Luke's sister so there's a plot hole in the original trilogy. Also, midiclorians is the equivalent of Highlander 2 explaining immortality = LAME... No...not getting into it. George Lucas has not raped my youth....he has raped my wallet and will never do so again. I have bought the OT 3 times on VHS and once on DVD and the prequels were bought on DVD and he keeps re-releasing and I'm sick of it. I'm never buying these movies again. I'm not going to see them in 3D and then buy them in 3D. I refuse to buy anything Star Wars EVER again. You will not rape my wallet anymore Lucas. Your Indy Script was the LAST transgression of EVIL you will put upon me. I will not watch or buy your Star Wars clove wars videos or take part in your live action series. I will not read the books or play the games. Your CGI is shabby and not cutting edge anymore and it will not pull me to the dark side to open my wallet for you. I'm through with Star Wars forever after this waste of time reading this talk back......I was sucked in for a good hour but I have the will power to break away from this tractor beam. NO..Lucas...you will not see my money for anything Star Wars EVER again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • March 17, 2010, 9:27 a.m. CST

    codecrackx15

    by AsimovLives

    I don't know, maybe at birth Luke was the only one that showed a strong force radout, like Leia was weak, and in her the force only manifested much, much later., maybe in puberty. Or maybe it was all the comotion in SW a New Hope that shoke lose her potential. Or maybe Ben Kenobi got forgetdful in his old age, he lived in a cave in the middle of the desert, for fuck's sake. Or maybe it's just a plot hole that should had not existed in the first place.<br><br>I understood the idea behind the midiclorians. In concept it's actually far clever then most think. The problem was the execution, which was poor to say the least. The idea behind it, as i see it, is like a reflection of what happened in our world after the fall of the roman empire and the begining of the dark ages, when much of the scientific knowledge from the ancient greeks