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‘Zoe!!’ Friday Brings Antepenultimate CAPRICA!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules
Vipers!
The cover of Entertainment Weekly this week carries the headline “The 10 Best TV Shows Right Now!” “Caprica” is one of those 10 shows.
“Caprica” hit a ratings uptick last Friday, matching its series high in 18-49.
Friday 18-49 finals (previous Fridays in parentheses):
0.5 (0.4) (0.4) (0.4) (0.5) (0.4)
Syfy says of tonight’s episode, titled “The Imperfections of Memory”:
Amanda fears for her sanity while Daniel and Joseph close in on their daughters.
After tonight, just two more new episodes will air before the series returns this autumn with 10 more new hours.
9 p.m. Friday. Syfy.
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“The Venture Bros.,” $28.99 last week, is momentarily $15.49/Season!! (48% Off!!)
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Somebody is going to have to clean this up...
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Let's doom ourselves our children and our entire culture to a slow, painful, pointless death by throwing all our technology into the sun.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twWd1L4fmTI
My favorite fan clippy thing this week. -
http://tinyurl.com/ye3tl78
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Way to entirely miss the point. I can't believe this conversation is STILL going on a year later. I'm really sorry you feel like you wasted so much time watching an awesome sci-fi show. But seriously, get the fuck over it. Caprica is really good also. Not BSG good, but very good nonetheless.
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Quote: "...a slow, painful, pointless death..."Uh, did you watch the same show?
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Thanks to BATTLESTAR GALACTICA's craptacular series finale, we'll be debating what could and should have been until the End of Days. Way to go, Ron.
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God I hate people that one year later still defend BSG and moores lame end to a corner he painted himself into
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Mar 12, 2010 9:55:42 AM CST
This show has actually started growing on me
by isleptwithkathybatesandallthatigotwasthi
It's taken a few episodes but i'm now, i guess, a fan. I loved BSG and this isn't in the same league but it's a really well written character drama with nice sci-fi elements.
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I'm not a Jesus freak but I'm okay with Moore's ending. Your disparate opinions are just that, opinions. I for one, was pleased to see a scifi show that wasn't afraid to embrace spirituality to the degree BSG did.
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I had doubts when it started, but the less I think about the BSG connection, the better the story is. It's probably best just to forget the Galactica connection. It works better without it.
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Mar 12, 2010 10:03:14 AM CST
I had no problem with them sending the Fleet into the sun.
by mr. nice gaius
I thought it was a moving image and a nice touch to the idea that they were no longer going to stay on the run (and with the Galactica broken, there was no point).That being said, when you consider other plot/story items such as the Opera House, the misfire of the Final Five, and the all-but-ruined character of Starbuck...the element of "god" or the Fleet's final destination should be the least of your complaints (IMHO).
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been given a 5 year series commitment. They need to put stories in place NOW which will entertain and keep people watching. Otherwise, they will be cancelled, long before any grand design can become apparent.
It's no use having a killer set of developments lined up for Season 3, if you never make it past Season 2. -
Gets my balls slapped across their face. Way to miss the point fucktards. Without getting too much into it, the idea was that THEY CREATED US, OUR CULTURE, OUR CIVILISATION, EVERYTHING, IT CAME FROM THEM. How can that be considered pointless?
Anyway, as much as I thought Caprica was a pointless exercise and rather boring, I stuck with it and last week's episode was actually pretty good. I'll stick with it till the break at least. They need to sort out Amanda Greystone though, great actress, shit character "oh hey school mistress I've never met before, come into my husband's super secret lab where he does defense work and have a look around!" that was just dumb. Between that and the "my daughter was a terrorist!" scene they've really shafted her character. -
This is a repost from last week's Talkback but I thought it might be of interest to some."...an idea crossed my mind while watching Tamara discover her post-death V-world nature:If Tamara turns out to be a part of the foundation of the overall Cylon culture (as we know it to be from BSG), could her consciousness be the reason that the Adama family was spared during the attack on the Colonies? Could she be the reason behind Lee Adama (Apollo) getting transferred to the Galactica?"
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It's just boring as hell waiting for something cool to happen. The whole series feels like the opening few moments of Avatar...
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Love that theory. Been telling people about it... I always wondered about that detail.
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into BSG. When you think of it, its bad enough already that Bill Adama is in this at all, as it makes him 69 years old when BSG begins! For some reason, on a show about killer robots in space that fact really affects my suspension of disbelief. Not sure why, but there it is.
The fact his family is so closely connected with the birth of the cylons is a big slab of retconning also. Part of me wishes they had just not focused on the Adamas at all, just used another family name. Certainly if they do go in that direction, having Tamara become involved with the cylons, little Bill better not hear of it, otherwise it creates all manner of problems -
feel like half of it was written by the folks that gave us BSG and half was written by a retarded chimpanzee?
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BSG did not.There is a reason, and you stupid god'ies are part of the problem.BSG earned the love and respect of most of us, and then shit on it. Those who prefer "It's a wonderful Galactica." are intellectually bankrupt.
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why do you assume that we didn't *get it*?
We got it. We just found it lame, contrived and stupid and shallow
We got it
We rejected it
That was the worst ending of any television series -
You need shock therapy. I watched it all in a couple months beginning to end and I could not have imagined a better ending. YOU ARE FUCKING WRONG.I would love nothing more than to choke these so-called fans into submission. SpyGuy- YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT. Good thing this show is not made for idiots. FUCK YOU.
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I want to fuck you up. You are so dead wrong in your opinion. I fucking think you are scum.
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One of the best essays I've ever read on a science fiction show: http://tinyurl.com/ksq7kc
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So you liked the series finale. Good for you, but you're obviously in the minority...idiot.
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All shows end, none do exactly as we envision. I like Bill's end, I liked that Starbuck remains a mystery, That 6 and Gaius have their ending. Nah, it was solid. Great show, great till the end. I miss it. All we have is LOST now and that is almost done too.
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Can someone send me the episodes Entertainment Weekly's been watching? It can't be the same shit I've seen.
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Lovers of BSG ending vs Haters of BSG ending. Good fight, good night!
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Remember when airlock dude told starbuck adama was a cylon, it must be Tamara. Explains the slow build up to wipe humans out.
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I love this show. I hate to say it but I have to agree with you. There are parts of this show that are beyond brilliant, and others parts that are just really clumsy and on the nose. I thought the scene where Bill and his Dad go fishing was just HORRIBLE in every respect. But I loved that episode overall. Strange. It's almost like you can see the different behind the scenes forces at work, "we want to do this, the network says do that! We HAVE to have a fishing scene in this!!!" etc.
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The only interesting characters are the dead daughters.
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Remember also when Adama first encountered Leoben in the miniseries, he somehow knew that Leoben was a Cylon even though there was NO precedent for a humanoid cylon. He even knew the specific circuits that were malfunctioning in his brain! That is something that I always thought was going to have HUGE ramifications. Maybe it will?
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http://tinyurl.com/ksq7kc
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I've read that before. Great piece.
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It moves slow but the story is definitely developing. The stuff with the daughters is the best in my opinion. But I think VShael(?) might be right in the comparison to the Dollhouse. They are not going to give a show like this forever to slowly develop a story. Unfortunately, you have to come out guns blazing. This show will likely get cancelled right when it hit its stride.
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That's exactly the kinds of things that were wrong with the show at the end. They wrote themselves into corners when they created the mythology but didn't really think about the repurcussions. The writers on that show fucked it up big time.
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airing half a season and doing the other half in the fall. Then they'll wonder why the ratings dropped because suits are fucking retarded. I DVR this show and I'm giving it a shot still but honestly if they cancel it, I won't miss it that much. It's still better than the reality drivel though.
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I'd watch the show if there were more cool scenes with big, manly fighter jets instead of people talking to each other.
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STFU and get over it. Not everyone took the ending as being as simple and contrived as you knuckleheads.
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Interesting idea and it's very possible. Although, I don't think the original writers/creators had that in mind during the advent of the mini-series. However, as we learn about young Adama's close proximity to the creation of the Cylons (something I'm not a big fan of but it's the direction they've chosen), one would assume that he's a bit more intuitive on these matters.Oh, and don't forget that during the first Cylon War, we got to see Adama discover the Centurion experiments aimed at creating human-style Cylons. So, it seems that he's definitely had a lifelong inside track!
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Jesus teach you that?
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Is it what we think of as God or is it some higher being on an evolutionary scale much like the perfect machine Caville aspired to?
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and I don't care who knows it. Perfect? Not by a longshot. But also not anywhere near as bad as its rep. An enjoyable series capper that resolved enough arcs to be satisfying, and yet still left a few ideas out there for debate and discussion.
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Knucklehead.
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and I'm an atheist. Go figure.
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Definitely true about the events in Razor. I still thought it was a little bit of a leap (the leoben scene) but not much. I think they're doing about as tasteful a job as you can as far as the young William Adama conceit is concerned. I have heard a couple of exciting things though: supposedly, the revelation/climax at the end of season 1 is going to blow anything that we've experienced on Galactica out of the water (hyperbole perhaps?), also, the jjump between seasons 1 & 2 will be WAY more drastic than the jump between Galactica Seasons 2&3, lastly, I also read that SyFy is committed to the show long-term and it's definitely getting a second season.
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Maybe that's what makes it so frustrating. What they could show us in this series is staggering to think about. e.g. all 12 colonies, the first Cylon war, creation of Cylon homeworld maybe? If we don't move away from Caprica in season 2 then IMO there's no hope. YES Caprica should always be the base for the show but I hope to god there's no 'no space' rule.
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See, Herc, this is what I mean. You've got people on this board trashing each other over differences of opinion about BSG, and that's fine--but someone calls Survivors fans idiots, and he gets threatened with banning. I don't get it.
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You're misremembering the BSG pilot. He didn't remember "the specific circuits" in Leoben's brain that were malfunctioning.
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True. I definitely do not remember the exact lines. But I know he said some technically specific stuff. Do you remember? Love your name btw. I miss Mister Eko...
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theGoldbergV, the problem with saying Bill Adama would be 69 years old, is A) you are applying our Earth length of time, B) They are not humans as we are from the story so they may age longer, and C) this is Science Fiction.
I also have issues with those that say, a 1969 Ford would not be there if there are space ships. Those that say things like that are making the same mistakes that theGoldbergV is. You are relating things as if it was us on our Earth with our set of rules and causations. Would you do the same in a parallel Earth if aliens lived knowingly with us and their Earth looked different?
People rediscover things all the time. Look at the fact that every culture has had some sort of bread/donut, and yet they taste so different.
Some say the Egyptians have hydroelectricity and light bulbs during the times the Great Pyramids were made. Some point to hieroglyphics with that and space suits.
This has already happen and will happen again! StarGate said that Earth Humans were the second time it had happen. Every consider people’s souls are being recycled and some part of a past memory creats an idea? Souls were a big issue for on B5, remember!
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Yeah I get all that. But I still find it jarring. Same with the sylistic choices too, not so much the cars (hey, everyone loves classic cars) but the fact the press take pictures with flashbulbs in the same universe that has interplanetary travel is just weird. If you look past those things then great, for me its just a little distracting.
Desipte it all though, I stil like aspects of Caprica a lot. Stoltz and Morales are good, as is Walker and some of the plots are developing nicely. It still needs to up its game though and the fact Zoe can't interact with any character other than Lacy makes her character's arc very tedious. -
Remember Cylons were the 13 colony and left about in their terms 4000 years ago and wasn’t there already a Cylon war during that time? So this would be just another Cylon war happening again.
Keep in mind the 12 colonies and the Zodiac signs along with the Gods and the 1 true God.
In their society, they all live understand and accepting that life, not just simple life, but intelligent life and come from other places. Did the people all originally live on one planet, out grow it and move to other worlds or did it happen independently on each or a few? How can the breed together?
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Aren't they all from Kobol?
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to settle the 12 colonies after the cylon war there. the cylons went to the burnt out "Earth" where the final five were "born" then the cycle of war happened again.
I do wonder who the "Lords of Kobol" were. Were they human?
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Get back to your schoolbooks son.
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Anyone who is sick of this fighting need not worry. Only a few weeks until Lost becomes the greatest/worst ending of all time (delete as appropriate)
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theGoldbergV for discussion and arguments sake, let’s assume a few things and accept them as facts.
Let’s say an alien culture is viewing us on a monitor, no strike that, it goes straight to their mind. They see we have computers and some space travel, yet we still use needles in medical uses. When they discovered computers and space travel, they moved beyond needles to do injections.
Or how about those people that still use Polaroid cameras in this digital age or vacuum tubed radios. Or in 20 years our time still read books.
On another front, the STO person behind the confessional screen will be either one of the final 5+ or someone from Kara’s family (Starbuck’s family I think they will tie into Jesus’s family).
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yikes
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that they sold out so fast...But I'm really not.
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1. The sudden decision to completely abandon technology. The survivors of the Colonial fleet are now on a strange, new world with no idea of what they'll be facing, but someone decides tech is bad and everyone's okay with that? No debate? No arguments, nothing? Shit, real people freak out when the power's out longer than an hour, but space travelers are just hunky-dory going the Amish route? BULLSHIT.
2. The decision to scatter themselves all over the Earth and populate the planet. Again, they have no idea what they'll be facing in long-term climate, animal threats or whatever, so because New Caprica was a bust, scattering themselves into smaller, easier-to-die-out packs is the way to go. Uh-huh, sure it is.
3. The notion that Bill Adama will never see Lee or anyone else again. "Sorry, son, but I have to go off and be with my dead girlfriend and live alone in a cabin by her grave until I die. I know I could stay and enjoy my remaining years with you, but them's the breaks." What the fuck?!
And so on. I have other nitpicks -- the preachy message at the end, the poor resolution of Kara's storyline, etc., but I'll let someone else rant about those. -
Don't call it that.
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Definitely agree. Especially point 3. That always bugged the crap out of me!! So old man Adama's just gonna sit by himself on that hill? Really? How nice would it have been if he and his son had built that little house together and were sitting around chilling? Finally resolving all their issues, both lost the loves of their lives. etc.
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I have never seen BSG or will it be too confusing?
I'm guessing it will be like watching Star Wars 1-6 in order, which I can't imagine lol. -
You could definitely watch it. It's hard to say how interesting it would be if you haven't seen BSG, although I know people who haven't seen BSG that really like it. Having seen BSG, I'm always looking for clues and connections and wondering if the two shows will ever meet in the middle...
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You could definitely watch it. It's hard to say how interesting it would be if you haven't seen BSG, although I know people who haven't seen BSG that really like it. Having seen BSG, I'm always looking for clues and connections and wondering if the two shows will ever meet in the middle...
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How does that happen?
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Yea I'm going to give it a try, everything I read about this show has been really good.
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Um OK, then I'll let you back to your lashimg of donkeys or whatever you do to them.
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Does anyone else think one of the best things about Caprica is the music? That main theme modulates fearlessly, and when the Tauron woman started singing the "Tauron theme" a couple weeks ago at the Adama's house I got chills.
And the opening titles look really anime. There's more to like about Caprica than not. Same goes for BSG. No pleasing some people though. -
I like the music but the main theme fails to stick in my head for some reason. Kinda sounds a little SyFy channel to me as opposed to special "BSG world" music.
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If people are still throwing hissy fits about it over a year later, then Moore did his job brilliantly. The people complaining are a bunch of Mary Sues, projecting their own desires onto other characters instead of objectively enjoying it for what it was.
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I saw you were interested in the Star Trek MMO game last week. At this week's GDC they announced there will be a new MMO based off of BSG being released later this year to go along with Caprica's 1.5 premiere.
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most haunting tune I've heard so far this year. Sometimes I find myself humming it for no particular reason. It's like it's just always there on the edge of my consciousness like some Cylon programming or something. It's one of the few themes I don't notice being repeated over and over again in a 45 minute show, and that's an impressive thing in itself.
And is it just me or do the opening titles theme from BSG sound like Treaty by Yothu Yindi? -
but the opening theme and visuals are just not doing it for me--starts great, then kinda devolves into a cheesy looking/sounding "Sanctuary" vibe But the use of percussion and the "in-show" music is terrific.
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yes my thoughts exactly
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"Anyone who thinks the BSG finale sucked You need shock therapy. I watched it all in a couple months beginning to end and I could not have imagined a better ending."
I have no doubt that's true... but then, you don't strike me as very imaginative. -
For the first time (I'd never watched an episode ever). Mini-series to the series finale. Didn't bother with the 'webisodes' or 'Razor/The Plan' but I would like to ask AICN readers... is this a record.? My wife says she's never seen anything like it. I suppose I should add, it was fucking brilliant - one of the best TV experiences of my life. And so on to 'Caprica'. It has a lot to live up to.
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My partner and I got through all of Babylon 5 in about a week. That had one more season than BSG (albeit a very miss-able season).
And I would bother with Razor. -
I thought the virtual Vipers Zoe and the dude were flying looked kinda familiar:
http://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/86/conquest/
Lame. The SFX guys on Caprica ripping off a cheesy 24-year old toy design.
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But You had to be blind, deaf, and dumb not to have seen the ending for BSG coming a mile away! The show all through the entire series had loosely followed the original. In the oriiginal they had a group of advanced aliens ( the ship of lights ) that were like angels so it only follows the new series would do it's own take on this. I found the ending satisfying. I don't think it implied " God did it " at all. It implied humans have been influenced by superior beings all a long but left to " Free will ". Now if that sounds a little too close to religion for you you have a really small mind. If you don't want to think of the influence as " God " remember what the Gaius Angel said at the end about the influence being called " God " " He really doesn't like that name ". Lighten up people! It's not like they made it a secret that there was another force at work and if you watched the old series you could have worked that ouit for yourself. Geez!
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Any entity that advanced would seem like God to us anyway so what's the difference? Humans still had a choice in the matter of which direction to go. If they hadn't flown their ships into the sun they would have found the technology by now and perhaps started the whole cycle ( that they were trying to break )again. I liked the ending and I certainly don't think it was a cop out.
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People either liked the ending to BSG or not. They either like Caprica or not. We can try to explain why there's more good than bad in them, but if people have made their minds up then they not going to change it.
I always liked the idea that "god" is related to physical manifestations of Cylon programming in the subconscious and/or collective subconscious - and that some humans are in some small way part Cylon (because human/Cylon breeding has happened before). But that's just my take on it. -
they are a ripoff of the Grumman X-29.
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I think that the opening of a show (movie, tv, radio, etc) is there to draw the audience into the universe of the story you're about to experience. It's saying "forget about your worldly concerns, and watch ours for a time - this is a glimpse of what it's like".
It's hard to sum-up the mood/style/world of a story in a 30-60 second opening title sequence, and for a world like Caprica where there's so many different elements coming together I think the music over the titles works as a meshing together of orchestral, synthetic and rock ensemble elements - much as Caprica is a meshing together of different story-telling genre elements. -
Did you read what his alternative suggestions were? Ripping off Planet of the Apes, or just saying "Yeah, this is like Star Trek, we're in the future".
What utter craptastic wank.
I'm utterly non-religious, and adored the ending. 99% of people who disliked it was asshat atheists who can't separate their own thoughts on belief with those in a piece of fiction.
It's like people hating Lord of the Rings because wizards don't exist.
If you hated the BSG finale, you're a fat basement dweller. No argument. You're a stinking up-themselves hick, who can't see your keyboard for you geek-gut.
It was awesome. -
The three webisode series and Razor are brilliant--I highly recommend watching them. The Plan has a few continuity issues, but it's also a lot of fun.
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is fundamental to the story, laid out from the very beginning of BSG. InHead Six stated openly and often that she was an Angel of God, and she was clearly manipulating Baltar. The same concept appears in the first moments of Caprica.The nature, intent, frequency/degree of direct intervention of this One True God/Cylon God is not at all clear, but a key mystery of the premise overall. So, with everything in the story woven with those threads, treating as if it was a "bolt-on" plot resolution at the end is absurd. Like it or don't like it, be disappointed by the lack of details or explanations, fine--but the God element in the story arc has been present from the beginining. The referenced critique linked above invalidates itself by defining any interventions by a God as automatic epic failure, but also says BSG was great until God was used right there at the end. God was there from the very beginning of the show.
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The G.I.Joe toy is based on the X-29. The Viper has more similarities to the G.I.Joe toy, i.e. both have twin vertical stabilizers (the X-29 has one) and both have a single air intake under the fuselage (like the A-7, F-8 and F-16) while the X-29 has two air intakes on the sides of the fuselage (like the F-4 F-5, etc.).
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Mar 12, 2010 10:50:38 PM CST
Amanda Greystone's Brother--Apparition, Hallucination, or....
by chromedome
...an InHead?Precedent for long-earlier InHeads appearing was established in BSG. The poster that she was led to was real, and significant to her. The manipulations/interventions could well be underway...
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Mar 12, 2010 10:57:28 PM CST
"God was there from the very beginning of the show."
by thehumanbeingandfish
No, it wasn't.
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and she thinks she's crazy. I gotta say I was a little worried after the first couple of episodes but this show and the plot is really getting interesting now.
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But BSG started early on with InHead Six stating she was an Angel of God, and there was a LOT of discussion by the Cylons about the One True God, His Plans for Baltar, etc.First ep of Caprica referenced the One True God, too.Dunno what YOU were watching...
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that female warthog the sister whatever
She comes on, I change the channel -
but it was a massive cop out sure. It was almost like M. Knight called RDM up and said, "Dude, wanna fuck with your audience? Well listen up!". I didn't buy their "150,000 years ago bit". Why? Well were was the massive paradigm shift in Homo Sapiens about that time. If he had set it about 10,000 years ago when one did happen (settling of the first cities, massive expansion in agriculture) it would have made a shit-ton more sense. As for the god thing... it's one thing to go from a cult obsessed about a god and throwing it in your face to that god actually being real and he/she had been determining your fate all along! Imagine if tomorrow, fucking Xenu appeared, Tom Cruise turned into a damn Thetan, and space ships looking like DC-6s fell from the sky! If that happened I might give RDM some credit.
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Everyone who tuned out after the pilot or episode 1 or 2 should give it another try. It really picked up a few weeks ago and now I'm hooked.
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I'm sorry to break this to you but God was indeed there right from the very start. During the confrontation between Adama and Leoben in the storage depot in the miniseries, Leoben mentions "God" (singular, not plural) several times. I've said it before but this isn't sommething they just pulled out of a hat at the last minute.
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Zoe is what we know as the "God" who orchestrated the guiding of the BSG crew,the final five,Baltar and now Amanda.
Remember how we heard Cavill ranting about his ideal existence as the "perfect machine"? One that was essentially a form of pure energy and was one with cosmos?
We know that the hybrids could tap into the stream.
What if Zoe eventually becomes this entity with the ability to travel through time and to project psychically into people's minds?
What if she was trying to stop a future that ended in the elimination of either the cylons or the humans or both?
Maybe she used her ability to go back in time and push key people to change the future using images familiar to them. Since she had seen this play out in many unsuccessful attempts (all this has happened before and will happen again) she had to keep trying variables until she found the right combinations.
If all the cylons are her descendants she would care for them as much as she did the humans. That's why she tried so hard to get them to merge. It would have been a lot easier to choose sides and aid that one side. convincing both to realize they needed each other and weren't that different was the hard part.
The angels were more like her avatars but they existed in the real world. She lives in the stream and our reality is like a v world to her.
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all the head entities are like avatars she's created that work in our reality. Do you remember the last words of Baltar and Six about God and how SHE doesn't like to be called that?
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Who LOVED the ending of BSG. And I don't think anyone who hated the ending is an idiot. So now what, fuckers?
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Given that they've sold about one million tonnes (at last count) of Firefly DVDs, it might have been not a bad idea to have made a second season at least don't you think?
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One of the things I hated the most about BSG was things like this: You have the colonials find a holographic projection of the night sky of earth. However the constellations seen are the same as those seen as our present day's night sky (more than a few thousand years each way and those patterns don't exist - it's a very narrow time frame).
But then we find out that this earth wasn't even our earth anyway but another planet in another solar system - which had our present day's night sky.
Wait, what?
Basically, the longer that the show went on, the more of these sloppy plotting and dead end plot points, detours and other ineptitude symptomatic of poor (or no) planning snowballed until they'd not so much painted themselves into a corner but in fact to the edge of a cliff - before jumping off it.
Which is all the more a shame because the first season was fantastic.
As for the finale, I still hate it with the fiery passion of a thousand suns. -
Loved the cliffhanger ZOEY ending. And Chromedome, you're 100 percent right.BSG was always about God. What I didn't like about the finale Spyguy summed up pretty well a few posts up. To think the Adama's would split up is asinine. To get rid of all their ships and technology makes no sense either.
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Seriously? Glee at no. 7? Lost not at no. 1? No Community?
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Razor, The Plan, Webisodes are all great!! You've come so far, why stop now?? Really important Adama flashbacks in razor. Watch!!
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I hope you haven't spoiled the plot of Caprica for me!
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Huge call, I know. But BSG had no Eric Stoltz. It had no V-club or New cap city. And it had no real exploration of existentialism.
BSG was great. But you know that Caprica has the potential to be so much more than a rehashing of the bible. -
or it had the most exploration of existentialism in any TV show ever.
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I concur with your thoughts on firefly. Even with the theatrical failure of Serenity the Firefly universe has 100 times the fans it did when that movie arrived in theaters. Hell even Serenity is now well in the black after the huge amount of DVD sales it generated. I miss that show. Did Whedon make any comic books as follow-up to season 1 as was talked about?
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But as for "real" existentialism, I am less sure. Perhaps I am wrong, but when I think of existentialism, I think of the complete rejection of the idea that a god can exist. It requires at it's core that there is no creator. Yet, in BSG, there is clearly an interventionist god at work. If the show explored existentialism, it did it in a profoundly inconsistent way.
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There was a 3 parter prequel to the movie, which I thought was quite terrible. And there's a current "Book" series, which fills in the backstory of that wasted character.
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Was it made after the movie? So he didn't yet start making a season 2 like he did with season 8 of Buffy?
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Amanda's brother.
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when the movie was coming out.
I don't think he's done a season 2, the way Buffy and Angel have done their seasons.
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I am the Jesus Freak of the talk-back I guess, and I loved the entire series, including BSG's finale. Caprica adds an interesting element to the whole story. Zoe in the Bible refers to eternal life, and that promise for all the redeemed. It's all over the New Testament. Some of the above theories are awesome, and I agree that Zoe, who's faith began in the One True God, became herself the Cylon God (thanks Chain! That really rocks). For me, the one true God in the series showed himself, but was never physically revealed outside of Starbuck, and occasionally delivering our heroes from harm using the most unlikely vessel of all, Baltar. A far classier way of handling what we might consider God than was depicted in the original series as Light Beings. Baltar was always warring with either himself, God, or Cylon. Starbuck seemed to be an angelic warrior sent from the one true God. I don't think the Cylons were as in touch with the real God all the time, but rather did the same things that we humans do. That is, basically make God in our image, and even tune up (or down) our religions to serve our own desires. The entire arc was fascinating. The whole idea that Cylons were able to experience love, and that love was ultimately their doom in their conquest of wiping out the humans is definitely an underlying theme portrayed from the very beginning of the series and throughout. Love was their Hobbits the Dark Lord did not suspect capable of destroying the Ring of Doom, if you will. Or their tribe of Ewoks who rose up from where an evil Emperor could not see, and were enough help to the rebels to defeat him unsuspecting. Yeah, you go ahead and laugh at that, but I dare you to take those goofy little guys that serious...Sorry, I'm digressing... Bottom line? The series was one of the most daring I've ever seen. It dealt with things that we'd like to not deal with, but have to. Even the ending was brilliant, from my view. Though I did have some of the same reservations mentioned above, especially Adama, I simply resolved that they would have, in the end, gone back to sticking together after the trauma of their adventures no longer weighed on them. They did those kinds of things all through the series, after all, and it rings true with how we all deal with life from time to time. Even the idea that they settled on Earth during man's initial appearance (whether you want to believe during early Bible times, or as some believe, during theistic evolution...the idea that God created man through evolution) dovetails into what lots of believers view as a possible Pre-Adamic race hinted at in the scriptures. No, that's not the Adama of the series, but the Adam of the Bible. The early chapters of Genesis (6:1-7 if you care) speak of a race called the Nephilim, or the Sons of God who went to the daughters of men. Just as well could have been our beloved Capricans...well, at least Baltar would have been a sure bet...
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I was thinking all throughout the ep's this shit was the Antepenultimate and told all my friends yo homies this is Antepenultimate and shit...
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And yet... intriguing.Mrs Grey is nails-on-chalkboard horrible. Please die.
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Thank you both for the very thoughtful posts.Chain, your theory of Zoe and the bringback from the BSG finale "She doesn't like being called that." was great! And it turns what seemed like a throwaway too-clever line into something much more.
DPS, great stuff. I see what you mean about the Ewoks being the lowliest unsuspected heroes, but I still think that could have been done better if they had stuck with Wookies. The Ewoks were just too damn cutesy for me. At least they were (a little) better than the prequel soldier droids saying "Uh-Oh." (which absolutely ruins action/battle sequences by destroying the suspension of disbelief.)Again, thanks to both of you for the very well thought out posts. They are the kind that make the talkbacks a real discussion. (A real contrast to the knuckle-dragging expletive-strewn attacks that are pretty much the internet equivalent to chimps throwing their own crap.) -
How did she manage to get Starbuck to come back from the dead? Zoe is just a computer generated avatar who may exist in the stream but surely has no power over life and death so how could she resurrect Starbuck and then make her physical form appear, be touched and felt as real and then disappear at the end of the finale? Zoe if she is the god of the cylons does not seem to have that ability.
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and the nature of reality vs. virtual reality (and limits or lack thereof within VR) are already being touched on.In New Cap City, "maybe the object of the game is to find the Object Of The Game".Zoe is already postulating ways to make VR more realistic, varied, and infinite.....Life extension within VR is being addressed.Who knows what form of reality BSG occurred within, or what limits of interaction between them can occur, can be developed....?
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I think Starbuck was a physical avatar. she was resurrected. by Zoe. We know that the Cylon skinjobs are very similar to humans. they can even breed in certain conditions.
Zoe downloaded her into a body she made most likely from her DNA sequences the Cylons had on file.
More or less a clone.
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Very plausible that she was a clone..still it doesn't explain the disappearing if she is a physical avatar unless its a virtual world that BSG existed in.
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I've been wondering for a while now if BSG takes place in V World or some variation thereof. Sort of explains how people can appear/disappear, projection, an unseen force influencing events, etc.
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Sister Clarice is looking for Zoe's program because she wants to create "apotheosis." I think she means uploading their minds into a computer. Daniel Graystone is realising that the cylon only works because he uploaded a unique personality into it (Zoe's) and it can't be copied. In order to make more cylons he's going to have to upload a unique personality into each one using Zoe's program. The Soldiers of the One are going to end up being those personalities (apotheosis).
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That is a TV show in it's own deserving to be made.
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A game where life seems cheap, and newbies have a life expectancy that can be measured in minutes?
Anyone who's played any Doom-like deathmatch online would know how quickly newbies get killed. And once you die, you can't go in again.
I don't know how much that game would be on Caprica, but I can't see why anyone would play it. -
you can frak 50 women in one night without taking boner pills. that's why.
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Aside from a interesting bit here and there, the entire episode focused primarily on Mrs. Greystone getting shit faced and then stoned with the STO leader chick\bitch.
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But still I fear far too slowly. especially given the ridiculous decision to split this into 2x 10 episode seasons.
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But still I fear far too slowly. especially given the ridiculous decision to split this into 2x 10 episode seasons.
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Wow...lots of interesting ideas - people who can't handle constructive argument aside. Anyway, here's my take on the BSG theme: It's about the evolution of man's concept of self, his place in the universe, the drive to answer the unanswerable, and how we are doomed to endlessly repeat the process in one form or another. Each time, posits BSG, the results are the same. Sure, small differences in our timelines of progress. Space travel sooner; 70's era decor/tech. Polytheism still; Monotheism just emerging. Regardless, BSG/Cap is about human history, which is always wrapped in religion, and how to stop repeating our mistakes.
Take our own (and their) religious history. Man has always worshipped something he perceives as greater than himself, yet sought some way to explain what is not yet known. In our case, it was mostly polytheism evolving into monotheism. Not easily, of course. We've basically resolved that part; BSG is still struggling.
BSG is what happened just "before" us. And, when they found "new Earth," they knew something very important: Do not interfere with the natural course of our evolution. That's why the ship into the sun, the spreading out, and so on. Still, it was inevitable that their genetics, mythologies (the gods, the zodiac), skills, social norms, would become part of us. And why now, as Baltar and 6 walk amongst us, they laugh: As it went before, so it goes again. -
Zoe's beliefs are written into her program. Since she's the first, of course the Cylons are all over the one god thing. And I thought that up all by myself, too! Do I get a cookie?
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As previously mentioned those cock sucking lips and that husky voice add up to instant win.
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I think the problem many people had with the ending is that they assumed all of the talk about religion and God was all bullshit. But I don't think if you looked back you would see that the show really suggested it was all not real. Since TV/movies tend to be not very religious, you come to presume it will all turn out to be fake. And then we learned that it wasn't supposed to be.
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Yeah I have major issues with the human race destroying their only chance to defend themselves. But ending with Adama alone on his hill would have been fine.
The God did it crap at the end along with Moores cameo was just pathetic. -
The problem with the ending wasn't that God was controlling things, it's that Moore didn't trust the audience to figure it out themselves. He had to spoonfeed his point at the very end, leaving no room for interpretation, ala the Sopranos ending.
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of New Cap City. Still doesn't explain why anyone would choose that instead of any other v-game, realistic or not.
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Everyday, gamers still log on to ancient servers to play the original quake online. Heck, they still play the original Team Fortress mod made for this game. You may want to ask why, considering there are much better and more realistic games available. I can't offer an explanation except to say that people do what they want to. Given this, it makes perfect sense to me that at least some gamers would play a game like New Cap City.
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Mar 14, 2010 7:08:16 AM CDT
"God did it" is as bad as midiclorians. Bad writing.
by stereotypical evil archer
Weak writing and poor execution to an ending of what was a great TV series. It would have been better if everyone died and nothing was explained, then the sense of wonder that accompanied the series could have lived on. Instead we have one of the lamest endings ever. Stupid writers. Death always trumps explanation.
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I can see why people still play Quake, Team Fortress, Counter Strike, or any of the old games.
I'm talking about a game where you can play with only one life, and it seems to be in constant deathmatch mode. Newbies last minutes.
If Quake 5 came out next week, and you could only play it until you got fragged the first time, and then never play it again for as long as you live, would you pay 50 bucks for it? -
Why did it take Graystone so many fucking episodes to piece together that "Zoe" was in the robot??? That's the reason he built the thing to begin with!
What really bugs me about this show? It just is far too much like earth. I mean, Haida native American art as backdrops? Come on....
However not only is the design and look / setting of the show too much like our own to be an alien planet but the TIME setting and technological advancement seems just barely advanced compared to ours today and it's meant to be our distant distant future after mastering intergalactic space travel. And these story lines of...is the machine alive was done to death 10 years ago with Data on Star Trek. I'm still watching, hoping something unique or interesting will happen. -
The show is set around 200,000 years ago or so in our past. They are our ancestors hence why so many of the things from their culture resemble stuff in our culture. Zoe was not the reason he built the robot. He built the 1st cylon for the defense contract money it would bring in.
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Just ship that bitch as parts then move on with the fucking story.
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SC: One of the scenes in the pilot has Daniel Graystone, your father, watching the robot walk after having downloaded your avatar into it, and he sees it crumble down and he is sad. But then we see the same robot being used as a military weapon by him. Does he know that Zoe’s avatar is still inside?******
AT: No, he doesn’t know. For the first, I would say six episodes, he has no idea that I am inside the robot’s body. And then, slowly, he starts to figure it out. For instance, we have a dog, and the dog can kind of sense that I’m in the body, just because, you know, animal instinct, and it doesn’t make sense why the dog won’t leave my side if I’m just a robot. Little things like that take place, and then he starts to figure out, to think ‘Maybe she is still in this body, and she is just hiding it from us?’ And slowly but surely he figures it out but at the end of the first episode he has no idea, he thinks that I died and he ruined everything, that he ruined the chip where he downloaded me. -
At the start of season 3. Sure, the whole "how quickly can we return everything to normal" sucked ass, but that isn't it. It is the contempt they showed their viewers with ugly recon action! At the end of 3-2 you see Cally *in the forest* when the gunfire starts. There are buhses all around her, she is right in there amid those fuckers. But when the scene plays in 3-3, fuck me does she get anywhere near that shrubbery. Chief is out there and pushing her to ground long before she hits the tree line. If they can't work continuity between episodes one week apart, God help them for the entire series. Before anyone with vauge recollections of this steps in, I just checked it with my own eyes right this minute. There is no way the footage matches up.
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cant believe shes 36. srsly.
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Go eat something.
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Sigh, probably...
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That could explain a lot.
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If BSG is set in the V world then the end of the show is a little more easy to swallow. That would mean present day earth is also in the V world.
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Maybe six is the sixth version of Zoe she creates for herself in V world? like why should she look the same all the time?
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That's what i've been saying! It would cover A LOT of things.
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Jesus.. I have been giving this show a chance, but it keeps alternating "somewhat interesting" with "boring as hell". And we throw in some drugs and polygamy "just because". And then we have the Nun who just casually reveals to Ms. Greystone that she's a monotheist, and Greystone reacts like she just farted in public. WTF. Granted she was high at the time, but seriously... where is the drama in this drama? Get to the cylon war already. ( which I can already tell we'll never see since they cleverly make Willie too young of an actor and old Husker didn't join up in the colonial armed forces until he was at least in his 20's. So we've got at minimum like 8 years of time we have to cover.
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Mar 14, 2010 10:38:08 PM CDT
So this is CLEARLY an exploration on the nature of reality
by chromedome
with VR becoming more and more prevalent in their society, conversations about life-extension, the rules and nature of Vworld, and the very direct "my daughter's avatar is my daughter and she is alive in Vworld" stuff.This fundamental premise is the core concept of the series, and must play an important role in the BSG arc.The cylons in BSG walked around in VR's of their own making all the time. A pristine viper, yet identical to Starbuck's "original" viper is much more easily explained in a variant of a VR, the "divine" interventions as well, and the One True God of a VR could be as simple as the One True Programmer of the VR, sitting at the keyboard..."She doesn't like to be called that..."If addressing and considering deep questions about the nature of reality or alternatives, and the only thing you want is 'splodin cylons, well, Caprica may not be for you. But it is very intriguing what they are playing at, and the BSG track record gives me hope that they are going to do something fantastic with this story.
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should have read "If addressing and considering deep questions about the nature of reality or alternatives IS BORING YOU..."in some alternate reality, AICN TBs are actually 2010-level tech!
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For me, it also gives extra wait to Sam's "See you on the other side" line at the end of BSG. Perhaps the hybrids are just beings with awareness of both sides of "reality." Also (and i'm really just guessing here) the cylon goo baths could simply be a way of getting around the fact that when you die in V world you can never come back. The goo can provide some sort of protection or trick the programming, or whatever. It was mentioned that your Code in V world is genetic or like DNA in some way.
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Yep, I think we are onto something here: the uploading and downloading of BSG takes on new possibilities and implications now. And I really like your hybrid theory! Hafta noodle on this some more.... Cheers
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