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Massawyrm will never forget REMEMBER ME, primarily because it has one of the worst endings in modern cinema history!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Hola all. Massawyrm here.
There are some unspeakably bad endings to films out there; some truly stunning what the fuck moments that to this day baffle audiences with their audacity. And then there is REMEMBER ME. REMEMBER ME is a film that will not go down in history as a well-constructed love story or a deeply affecting personal drama. Rather, it is a film that will go down in history for having one of the worst, most ill-conceived, contentious - and potentially offensive – endings of all time. It is an idea so bad that it boggles the mind.
Up until the last two or three minutes of this film, I felt no ill will towards it. It was simply a run of the mill, New York flavored indie starring a pair of up-and-coming (and somewhat overly maligned) actors, backed up by a bevy of underused, powerhouse actors serving as the primary sources of frustration for our angsty 21 year old couple. There was certainly plenty to like here, but nothing to write home about save two particularly wonderful moments towards the very end of the film. Robert Pattinson is Tyler, a 21 year old, shiftless rich kid with daddy issues who spends his days coming to grip with the hero worship he has for his deceased older brother. Emile de Ravin (who most of you know best as Claire from LOST) is Ally, the daughter of a NYC cop still reeling from the murder of his wife some ten years earlier – a murder Ally witnessed.
Pattinson’s Tyler is needlessly nihilistic. Even when all the cards are laid on the table and you understand what his deal is, you still kind of look sideways at him and want to say “Dude, you are really doing a pisspoor job dealing with your shit.” But he’s 21, angry and it’s not entirely unrealistic. I’ve known douchier 21 year olds who have had half the problems Tyler does, so I bought it. When Tyler inexplicably intervenes in a fight between street thugs, he mouths off to a cop who decides not to take this richboy’s shit and puts his head into a windshield. That cop is Ally’s dad. You see where this is going? Guess who decides to date Daddy’s little girl for a possible revenge bang? But then, predictably, they fall for each other.
While the setup was a little too SHE’S ALL THAT for my liking, director Allen Coulter (HOLLYWOODLAND) handles the relationship very well and makes a believable, summer fling out of it, with each character both equally damaged and nurturing, giving the relationship a relatively authentic feel – despite the obvious contrivances headed their way. Fortunately, the film has an equally interesting subplot involving Tyler’s little sister (in a wonderful turn by young actress Ruby Jerins, easily one of the best things this film has going for it), who as it turns out is quite gifted. Enter even more daddy issues.
But just as it seems as if the movie has nothing else to do or say, it comes to an interesting climax that brings about some really solid resolution and two great character moments involving Pattinson and his father (played by Pierce Brosnan). One of the things that will bug some folks about this film is that while Tyler is a stand up family man, he is little else beyond that. He’s really got nothing going for him character-wise. But watching the film call him on that a couple of times – especially in one explosively uncomfortable scene – makes for some pretty compelling viewing. Had the film been much more about this aspect rather than dumping piles and piles of Daddy issues onto the audience (and really, I’m not exaggerating here, it is what the main thrust of this film is entirely about) this could have stood as a potent, if forgettable drama.
But then comes the ending.
Those of you that don’t want to be spoiled need to leave now.
Seriously. While I am typically the guy who tries to avoid discussing spoilers, in this case I am making a *huge* exception. It is not enough to call the ending of this film terrible, audacious or worst in modern history. It must be explained, it must be discussed and if you really don’t want to know, by all means, please, bookmark this page and come back after you’ve seen it. There’s a good chance you’ll want to. Final warning.
Many of you have already heard about this ending; some are just reading to confirm that it is in fact the ending you’ve been hearing so much about. Yes. It is that ending. Just as Tyler gets a precious glimpse into the mind of his father and feels, for the first time, as if he understands him, his father’s secretary asks “How old would your brother be?” “28. He died May 20th, 1995. You should know that.” Throughout the film it is mentioned that his brother died at the age of 22. Just as you begin doing the mental math, plugging six years into that equation and realizing that they just celebrated Labor Day – we cut back to Tyler’s little sister in her classroom. The teacher steps out from in front of the chalkboard. It reads September 11, 2001. Back to Tyler who steps over to the window and looks out over the city. Gosh he’s high above it. Now we’re outside looking in. The building is unmistakable. We pull back and see its twin framed behind it.
All this time the film has failed to mention that Tyler’s dad works in the World Trade Center. Now I’ve been told that other prints showing around the country set up the date of the film as taking place in 2001 on a title card towards the beginning – some press materials are including this as well. Our print apparently didn’t have it. No one I spoke too saw a date. But twist or not, surprise or not, my response is the same. This ending is cheap, low and despicable. It’s bad enough when a love story aims to rob the audience of a happy ending through an easy but tragic twist of fate accident like being run over by a bus or struck with brain cancer or some such horrible thing; but when you invoke the single most profound, horrifying, culture changing event of the modern era, you best have something powerful to say about it.
Instead, this film serves only to remind you.
Why was it titled REMEMBER ME? Because NEVER FORGET would have been too obvious. If the film has something to say in terms of metaphor, it is muddled, weak and confused. You can draw a number of interesting comparisons, but none of them are solidly communicated as if they were intentional. Instead it gives us the mother of all bad endings as our protagonist has finally gotten all of his shit worked out, only to find himself about to be caught up in a world changing event – 9/11’s own Dante “I’m not even supposed to be here today” Hicks. Do we see the planes hit or how he dies? No. The movie is over once we get the reveal. There’s a brief, saccharine slo-mo montage of people running in the streets and the moment each major character realizes something is wrong, followed immediately by even briefer scenes of mourning. But that’s it. We have watched an entire film build to a crescendo that our protagonist is only tangentially involved in.
It is a romantic film that wants to hit you with the one-two punch of love unfulfilled and OMG 9/11. It is tasteless pandering to the very lowest common denominator – meant to elicit emotions not by creating endearing characters we will mourn the loss of, but rather by reopening old wounds and pouring salt into them. Tyler is a nearly worthless character who is on his way to becoming a good man. Too bad for that whole plane thing, huh? In the end, it turns out to be a film populated by characters that desperately need to move on from the tragedies that turned them into the wrecks they are, that serves to remind us instead that we shouldn’t forget the tragedy that turned this country into the wreck that it is. It is a film that comes dangerously close to endorsing a victim mentality rather than promoting one of healing and growth. And while I’m sure that’s not what the film’s intent was, it sure as hell comes across as what it is saying.
Now, I am certain that this was done with the very best of intentions; a lot of incredibly stupid things are done with the best of intentions. But their attempt to remind us of that terrible day while putting a human face on the tragedy is misguided and frustrating to say the least. They took an otherwise watchable and entertaining story and gave it one of the most regrettably awful endings in modern cinema history. I have no doubt that Pattinson’s young fanbase will adore this. With little attachment to the tragedy (as most of them weren’t old enough to understand it or even process what a pre-9/11 world was like) and plenty of scenes of Pattinson brooding that seem to skirt the shores of fan service at times, they will find this an enlightening, humanizing work that exposes them to something they only know about second hand. But for the rest of us, well, more than a few of you will find this as pandering as I did.
Let me be clear: I’m not offended by this in the way that I feel that they are capitalizing upon a tragedy. As far as I’m concerned, that teat has been suckled more times than I like to think about. Politics, religion, finance, Country music – there’s hardly a sector of industry that hasn’t found a way to squeeze a nickel out of the WTC. My problem isn’t that they exploit 9/11; it is how cheaply and crassly they exploit it. Much like its protagonist, it wants terribly to be deep, but never has anything interesting to say.
Until next time friends,
Massawyrm
Got something for the Wyrm? Mail it here.
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I like it...
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I'll be giving this one a miss.
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...that bad if done right. Apparently it's not.
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...any hot shots of Emilie De Ravin?
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Christ almighty. Nice review by the way....good analysis of a film that probably didn't deserve such depth.
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...Reign Over Me...and reversed it. Instead of 9/11 happening at the beginning, it happens at the end...with the rest of the film filled with brooding and nauseating self-involvement. Shit on a stick.
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Don't insult "the heartland." I think most people are not going to be happy with the end of this movie. If it plays out like Massa's telling us, it's not just "pandering", it's friggin' stupid. And imagine being blind sided with this ending as someone who lost someone that day, after expecting some weepy romantic movie.Idiots.
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Since the ending is supposed to be a surprise and has nothing to do with the rest of the movie, they can't let the audience know about it before hand. So you're going to get a lot of people expecting a nice saccharine love story only to get emotionally jerked around at the end...and for some people...it will hit too close to home. The backlash should be interesting.
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...get over it. Sheesh. I read that whole thing in anticipation of something truly dreadful, instead I get your fucking moronic knee-jerk reaction.It's a part of history, and as such fair game for the movies. End of.
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Lame lame lame. Seems like an easy way to drum up emotion because the film couldnt do it alone.
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I guess I could understand the premise of showing people living their ordinary lives, with ordinary problems whose life was destroyed/broken by 9/11, but I can see a lot of people being pissed at this, I know I would be.
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That guy better get himself into a comedy or some action movie. This brooding, troubled character he's playing will get him typecast very damn quick. "Ugh, it's that Twilight guy." Your shtick will get old fast, buddy.
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Mar 09, 2010 7:45:53 AM CST
johnnyrandom will be there opening day wearing his Twilight T-sh
by bumlove
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Is called Inglorious Babyz and is about my sons who are on a 9/11 flights and they take away the boxcutters and cut off there heads and then fly planes to the middle easts and get machine guns and dynamite and kill all of Obama and his terrorists with so much sweet death and explosions and David Bowie songs.
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Just wow. That is fucking astonishing. Now cue the Alex Jones-ers in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ....
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Let me no if you think it is good at my website. I no this is such a douche thing to do but I dont no what to do so I say okay.
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That doesn't sound so bad. Maybe it's in the execution.
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It should be studied and explored through documentary, art and even mainstream films. But not as some cheap, unearned fucking plot twist at the end. This reminds me of THE BOY IN THE STRIPED PAJAMAS.
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should be allowed to tackle such subject matter. This is beyond crass. Beyond trash. To turn 9/11 into a Sixth-Senseian gimmick is stomach turning. Top it off, a BRIT! is the leading man???? How patriotic.
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You don't mind people exploiting 911 as long as they don't "cheaply" exploit it? Care to clarify that statement?
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67 Brits were amongst the dead. I'm not scrabbling for any kind of moral highground here, but I'm really not sure what your point is.
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Mar 09, 2010 8:06:03 AM CST
Hell, even if you wanted to do a FROM HERE TO ETERNITY
by colonelfatheart
kind of movie, OK. At least that movie put you in the time and place. You knew what was coming, and how all of these people's lives would be turned upside down. There's no moment where it's like, "Oh, by the way, it's DECEMBER 7, 1941!!!!" Fade to black.
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Really, that's it? I read the review hoping to find out that last two minutes of the film featured everyone dropping their trousers and taking a dump in each other's mouths and all we get is that some dude worked in at the WTC?
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Mar 09, 2010 8:17:36 AM CST
Without reading the spoiler: Does it end with aliens?
by isleptwithkathybatesandallthatigotwasthi
Man, I hope so. That would be awesome.You could have the two star-crossed lovers running towards one another only for Robert Twattison to suddenly be sucked up into a mothership. As his girlfriend sinks to her knees in tears, staring in disbelief, we cut to Robert Twattison being anally probed as the ship flies back to Mars where he will be turned into snack food for fat red Martians.That would be a cool "WHAT THE FUCK!?" ending.
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People died from 90 different countries on 9/11. But don't be naive. 90% or more were Americans. This is an American tragedy. That's a fact, not a "point". But if I were making one it would be that only a non-American would stoop so low as to use this tragedy for some kind of half-ass emotional pay-off. It isn't. It never will be.
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...just for the comedic effect of Emilie De Ravin trying to beat down that godawful, outrageously grating Ozzie accent whilst simultaneously trying to effect a New York accent. However after 30 minutes or so, I'd probably just want to shoot myself to end the misery done to my eardrums... and brain.
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Mar 09, 2010 8:23:06 AM CST
or is it like Easy Rider "so god damn annoying" type ending?
by thedannerdaliel
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and give it the ending we know it should have!
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doesn't sound very memorable, plus I avoid anything with "R PATZ" like fucking AIDS
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i was talking to a high school age kid the other day and he said "oh shit, yeah! EURO TRIP is on!"
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Mar 09, 2010 8:32:07 AM CST
Add a montage at the end... the planes fly by WTC...
by jaylenotookmyjob
...and off into the distance, Emilie De Ravin turns on CNN, planes have destroyed the Pentagon and the White House(!). The lovers run to each other through the city streets, meeting and embracing by the Brooklyn Bridge. We pull back past a sign saying "Entering Manhatan" and notice a bald man with no eyebrows wearing a black suit holding some high tech folding binoculars... The End.
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I know nothing about this film, so are you telling me that everyone involved was non-American then? Look, i get it, you're angry. But lash out at the right people, not the people helping you fight.
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good God, why do people have to dwell on 9/11? it happened, people died...NEXT!!!! GET OVER IT!!!
yes i have sympathy for those that lost loved ones, but you know what? It was yrs ago... it is past time to grieve, its time to let go...being able to move on is a GOOD thing one the rest of the world needs to do. Take a look at the mid east Muslims- Sunni & Shiite, Christians and Jews are fighting and dieing because they wont let go of things that happen ages ago...short term memory- one of the knocks on western culture-is a wonderful thing -
good God, why do people have to dwell on 9/11? it happened, people died...NEXT!!!! GET OVER IT!!!
yes i have sympathy for those that lost loved ones, but you know what? It was yrs ago... it is past time to grieve, its time to let go...being able to move on is a GOOD thing one the rest of the world needs to do. Take a look at the mid east Muslims- Sunni & Shiite, Christians and Jews are fighting and dieing because they wont let go of things that happen ages ago...short term memory- one of the knocks on western culture-is a wonderful thing -
hated the trailer... no way i am seeing this movie. ever.
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My apologies bro. I'm not lashing out at you, or anyone. And I'm definitely not angry. I can say with much reserve that I'm just geniunely disgusted. And no, I'm not saying that everyone involved was a non-American. I'm just saying that this film would not have gotten made had a certain non-American decided that this would be a great addition to his nascent yet increasingly bland filmography. But God bless the both of you.
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A movie that shows how life really is with a character becoming a better person and ending with a reminder of a tragedy which needs to be remembered. Finally a "quality" love story - it's been awhile.
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...are you seriously suggesting that casting a British actor in a film that ends with your 'American tragedy' is somehow UNPATRIOTIC?
I mean come on, you MUST be joking. UnPATRIOTIC?? Please oh please I beg of you explain this one out to me. I'm just a poor undereducated Brit and I'm sure I have no idea what patriotism means. but by your example is it more patriotic to cast a Brit as the baddie and an American as the goodie? seriously? this is a patriotism issue?
Would the hurt locker have been a less patriotic movie if Pattinson had been cast in Jeremy Renner's role? Boy, there's stupid and then there's stupid and then there's you. -
I honestly suspect the film would've been made regardless of who took the lead. However, don't get me wrong - slag off Pattison all you like. Man's a cock.
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I thought I was the angry one! LOL! Dude, relax. This is a democratic medium. We're all just putting our opinions out there. And I would be as stupid as you presume I am had I not realized that the patriotic jab was merely sarcasm.
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You don't know what your talking about. Shut the fuck up.
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Well, not THIS movie, but a carbon copy of it, mainly because I think endings like this are hilarious, but naturally assumed a movie like this would never get made. I am so happy to hear that this CAN get made though. Yes, it is offensive, but I think it's a fantastic way to end something.
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Endings like this can be darkly funny....like the ending to A Serious Man. But the Coens are brilliant enough to pull something like that off...and their films can be both morose and funny at the same time. This film doesn't fit that category.
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Believe it or not...I think he's a good actor. He has great potential and I really do admire his ability to materialize what's on the page. This was just a really bad idea is all. But it's not the end of him. I won't even remember it after I see the Eclipse trailer (I'm a David Slade fan. I think he's Twilight's Alfonso Cuaron).
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It's all good. Cue Academy Award for Best Picture.
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damn, is that really a line of dialogue?
why didn't they just say, "hey, let's just take a moment to underline to the audience that that date is significant"??
i agree. that sounds like the worst shoe-horned, most gratuitous ending ever.
which is a shame, cause i like Emily de Raivin.
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I'm kind of annoyed I read the spoiler now.
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It's a title almost like a math problem, except x = hipster doofus.
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you weren't being sarcastic. At least have the courage of your convictions and stand by your beliefs. If a suicide bomber can do it then surely you can try it. Suicide bombers aren't even American most of the time, so they haven't got those stars and stripes filling their filthy unamerican hearts with oh whatever...
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capitalizing on a real human tragedy to tell a love story? Btw the worst ending in film history was...The Talented Mr Ripley. That douche got away with it all.
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You beat me to my own schtick.
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where Tyler's brother died in the '93 attack. Now THAT would've been too much.
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All of these dopey broads who made "Dear John" and the Twilight bullshit hits will come out in droves for this. We're looking at Pattinson as the next "go to guy" in Hollywood unfortunately!
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you know me so well. (still sarcasm.)
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Yes, millions of Muslims, Chtistians and Jews are still at each others throats throughout the world. Such as what happened in Nigeria yesterday, in which 500 Christian men, women and children were hacked to death with machetes by radical muslims screaming Allah Ackbar as they chopped their victims into hamburger(strange it's rarely the Christians or the Jews who are the instigators of such massacres). Which is precisely why we shouldn't "get over it". That's what monsters like those that perpetrate such hienous acts are counting on. Complacency and resolution regarding such matters will be our downfall. While I appreciate the need to move forward, 9-11 should be allowed to fester and bleed like the still-open wound it is. That constant sting will reduce the chances of something similar happening again.
Also, fuck this movie for turning that day into a cheap O'Henry ending. -
Watch A Serious Man. You will want to hurt someone.
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THe difference is, people knew what they were going to see when they saw Titanic. The movie is called Titanic. If this movie was called "9/11", it wouldn't make it less corny, but perhaps less offensive. Also, Titanic interweaved the love story with the disaster and didn't tack it on at the end for a twist. If a movie set in the early 1900's ends with the couple deciding to take a cruise and then you discover the cruise is the Titanic before it rolls to credits....it would be similarly cheap. But this is somewhat worse since most Titanic survivors and their immediate families are dead.
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It's a modern fable addressing the question "Why do bad things happen to good people?" The main character is seeking truth and meaning while being tested, like in the story of Job, and through his mentally challenged brother he sees that others have it much worse than he, and he realizes the value of having faith in himself and a higher truth in the face of struggle....because without struggle one isn't living.
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type endings when the happy members of the cruise ship discover (close in on the life preserver) they are, duh duh duuuh, on the TITANIC.
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What will reduce the chances of another attack is for the US to change it's foriegn policy in regards to the Middle East, along with law enforcement disrupting any attacks before they take place, not hand-wringing over something that happened nearly a decade ago.
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Um really?? "the single most profound, horrifying, culture changing event of the modern era"? Only if the 'modern era' is constituted to mean after 2000. If you include the 20th Century as being 'modern era' then I think youve got a long way to go to prove yr case! It was a tragic event, undeniably sad for all those directly involved and their families and friends - and I think this movie would be very painful for them in ways we cant really comprehend, but I think you made a claim you cant really back up, unless as I said you have a really short-term definition of the modern era!
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of recent years.
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Ending or no ending, I am honestly more surprised anyone gave a rats ass about this film?
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There are just no other interesting articles on this site right now to shoot the shit.
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My grandma never got over Iwo Jima. She saw newsreels and the dead bodies on the beaches and so on, and yeah, it kinda scarred her. Some things can't be forgotten. Asking people to "get over" 9/11 is about the most shallow sophomoric - make that sophomoronic - things any douchebag could say. It was an attack in the heart of New York City, on American soil, on innocent and helpless civilians, a million times worse than Pearl Harbor - and when we see reminders of it, we're just supposed to shrug and say "that's so ten years ago"? Again, anyone with that attitude is a douchebag. And BTW the film does sound like total crap. Thanks for the warning, Massa. You've done a lot of people a good turn today.
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The reason people hated The Mist's ending was entirely down to Jane's horrendous acting. Genuinely the most stomach-turning thing in the film.
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Twilight aside, I can't watch that guy in anything without wondering who hit his face with a frying pan.
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I was thinking more along the lines of the St. Elsewhere finale, when it turns out the entire show was some kids dream. THAT, my friends is how you screw over an audience!
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That would explain why he constantly looks away with the fairies.
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Calm down, people. They're just saying that yes, it was a tragedy, but that doesn't mean it can NEVER be portrayed in a movie. Iwo Jima, Pearl Harbor, Vietnam, and the example someone else gave of Titanic... these are portrayed in movies ALL THE TIME. Yet they were tragedies, too. So why is it okay to "use" them, but not 9/11?
Honestly, the ending doesn't sound bad at all. Maybe it was more "gimmicky" in the movie, which would be disrespectful, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. -
2 people who worked in the WTC you could compare it to Titanic. Even if they didn't mention the year the movie takes place it'd be a safe bet, setting your movie in those buildings, 9/11 will play some part (if for nothing else, to make the audience think of it and elicit an emotional response that the story and characters themselves cannot earn from you).However, this sounds like a cheap, exploitive "twist" designed purely for shock value. "How do we stand out amongst all other emo love stories""We could kill off one of the lovers in a surprising and unexpected way""Won't that just piss off the audience and make them feel cheated""Not if he dies in the WTC, then they'll transfer their emotions of that event onto the characters and feel nothing but sympathy""Brilliant! By the way, did I tell you how we decided to end Lost? Last shot the camera pulls back to reveal the film crew, etc. The whole thing was just a TV show where anything could happen because it's all just make believe. The End."
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It proves that He really is God. He dares to predict the future for 2/3 of the bible. All of these things (Pearl Harbor, 9/11, Global Warming, Earthquakes in diverse places, Chaos in the Middle East) they're all signs that Jesus said to look for at the end. I'm no religious zealot. Just pointing out that there's no stopping the armageddon train.
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Its either "I'm a great-looking but misunderstood wild child and my dad is James Bond!! And I'm in love with the chick from LOST!" or its "I'm a great-looking but misunderstood wild child whose in love with the chick from LOST! But her dad is Chris Cooper and he doesn't like me either!!!" And they ALWAYS show the shot of her tackling him on the beach. Their ads always make me laugh at its ridiculousness.
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When I was in seventh grade, the class had to write a short story for a writing contest, with a few of the winners going to a little ceremony/party thing at the local college. Being a dumbass, I didn't do the assignment until 20 minutes before class. I whipped up a retarded story about some kid trying to commit suicide by driving his car off a cliff. He fails and sits on the edge thinking about life and decides he wants to live. As he closes his car door, the cliff gives way and he falls to his mangled death. I was one of the winners. The moral of the story is, sometimes poorly-written, middle-school-level hack writing with a ridiculous ham-fisted melodramatic ending is enough to get you a share of the prize. If only I'd had an agent...
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People are far too fucking touchy. This movie looks like a complete piece of shit. I'm not against it being used to frame this horrendous love story. We've seen Christ brutalized on film, our grandfathers slaughtered at Normandy, Jack the Ripper, the Son of Sam, Jeffery Dahmer, and the Zodiac Killer's victims hacked to pieces, and countless other simulated true to life acts of violence committed to film. Have you ever watched Bully? I'm sure that fella's family enjoyed reliving those events acted out on film. Their son (true or not) painted as a rapist and sociopath just before having his murder drawwwn out on film. They apparently don't even showcase the event, simply use a cheap twist for shock value. 9/11 happened, it's up for grabs. The event while the greatest U.S. tragedy in recent memory is not some holy untouchable event simply because it hit home for a great number of us on a personal level.
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That's for sure.
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If you're not watching it, you're missing out.
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But damn, in the commercials for this flick, she looks just like the girl in Modern Family who also wears glasses. Whoops. My bad.
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so they have no experience of the world before that happened.
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Mar 09, 2010 10:07:33 AM CST
I hated "9/11-in-movies" whining then, I hate it now
by american mythos
It's a part of fucking history. Get over it you whining god damn morons. Firstly, this movie looks like shit, 9/11 ending aside. The previews make it look like some brooding, emo, depressing suckfest -- starring Robert Pattison, the master of brooding, emo, depressing suckfests -- so that the ending is so much full on exploit-your-tears bullshit is not surprising.
What's surprising is in this talkback are the same whiny idiots who have bitched and moaned about 9/11 being used in movies since I first heard about the shitfest caused by the mere appearance of the twin towers in that horrible remake of the Omen starring Liev Schreiber. "How dare they remind us!" "What if someone who lost someone on 9/11 is watching this and they have to go through it all again?!" Well, to begin, I would hope they would have more taste than to sit through this pile of shit.
But to piss your pants with such phony rage is more disgusting than any exploitative ending that could have been tacked onto this shithole of a film. So, enlightened ones with your easily prickled emotions, what is the expiration date on a world changing tragedy before it can be used or even references in movies or literature? Or do we just continue the hysteria that commenced after 9/11 -- when filmmakers were cutting or digitally removing the towers from their movies (Spider-Man, Men in Black II, People I Know, just to name a few); the word "terrorist" was changed to "hippie" and the guns were replaced with walkie-talkies in the 20th anniversary re-release of E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial; and all references to 9/11 were taboo for pop culture.
We were such a numbed and hypocritical nation after it happened. Americans didn't mind 9/11 being used to start two wars -- as long as they weren't reminded of it in their TV, books, and movies. Some of you might want to go back to the art-gestapo (not that I'm calling Remember Me art, no way) bullshit that followed 9/11, but not me. Whipe your tears and look for something else to rail against.
And know this: this was rant by someone who did witness 9/11. I was getting ready for another freshman day in high school when I saw on the news the smoke from the first plane. The Greengrass movie "United 93" had the power to bring me back to that moment and move me to tears in front of my grown friends. People will make good movies about 9/11 and people will make bad movies about it. But to go all out film Nazi over any of it is just pure bullshit. -
I don't understand why anybody would be angry or upset or frustrated with the ending. I don't find it a cheap trick or a cop out at all, and honestly, it kinda makes me want to actually see it. Sounds like a fairly decent story with a good ending. I could understand Wyrm being upset by it if he's also subsequently upset by movies about WWI, WWII, Pearl Harbor, Hiroshima, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, et al, but if he's not, than it's hypocritical bullshit...and the reason I mostly pay attention to the reviews at slashfilm and NOT this site.
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Who gives a shit if peole knew what they were going to see in Titanic and From Here to Eternity?
What difference does that make? We can't be surprised or taken aback by an ending now? Fight Club would have been good if there had been a title card at the beginning that said "Tyler Durden is in the narrator's head". God forbid the end have an unexpected emotional impact. -
It's right there in your review. We all remember what the world was like. The target audience for this film doesn't. It's nigh impossible for us to look at this from the perspective of a 16 yr old girl, so it should come as no surprise that we find the ending offensive, or at least inappropriate and awkward. The youngsters have to find a way to relate to the infamous event (why do people keep calling it a tragedy?) that can't include any personal experience of it. Imagine the same film released in 1983 and the last scene is a parade in Dallas. Our dads would have found it cheap and unneccesary, we would have found it informative.
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I dont think I can communicate why it doesn't bother me, but it just doesn't. Like Massa said, the ending will most likely work very well for its young audience, equating the tragedy of love unfulfilled with catastrophic disaster. I can't put it into words, but reading about the ending... just doesn't bug me.
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For instance, all those who bitched about being reminded of 9/11 when watching "War of the Worlds" or "Cloverfield". I'm sorry every disaster on film will now remind you of 9/11, but I guess that's the way it will forever be.
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No offense to you, Orschigh, but I can't even begin to imagine what frame of mind one would be possessed of to even hold such an opinion.
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A lot of strawmen, tangents, and arguments against things that weren't mentioned in this talkback. You've got the monopoly on phony outrage in this talkback.
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You mean exactly the fucking same?
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I totally thought that's where it was going when Massa mentioned the date he died. I was thinking "Was that the first attack on the Twin Towers? OH, the horrible, horrible IRONY!!!"
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it is NOT sacred...it just one of MANY horrible things that have happened....raising it to such levels gives it too much power and gives those that accomplished it what they wanted
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...was moronic. But that's not the same as using a tragedy where thousands died to get an emotional payoff at the end of a film which wasn't earned authentically...but is merely borrowing it from the recent memory of a real tragedy. That's cheap. I don't have a problem with films about 9/11, like most of them that have been done, including Reign Over Me, despite the fact that it sucked. But exploiting 9/11 like the politicians have been doing...it's just repulsive. I'm not outraged because I was never gonna see this. But if this appeals to you...your taste in films differs from mine.
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Mar 09, 2010 10:24:13 AM CST
If I saw a "2001" title card at the beginning of the flick...
by d.vader
I'd expect the movie to end when Robert Pattinson speaking to a talking red-light bulb. Cue "Thus Spake Zarathustra!"
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You really think Pearl Harbor and 9/11 and earthquakes and chaos in the Middle East were predicted in the Bible? Because I'm pretty sure that stuff's been happening for a millennium. Every generation sees the signs. They've been seeing the signs since the 10th century.
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The film could have ended with father and son boarding a plane in over-saturated slo-mo, sitting behind two suspicious-looking Middle Eastern men while "Leaving On A Jet Plane" plays mournfully into the fade-out over their ticket stubs for United Flight 93. But that's really the only dumber ending.
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piqued my curiosity? I don't mean to be a fucking dickhead but that sounds kind of different. That ending sounds tasteless but some say Reign Over Me was a terrible flick because it's use of a national tragedy as a plot device...and I absolutely love that movie. I never cried while watching a film up until I saw Reign Over Me.
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Tony Scott may be reading this.
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was saying that the results weren't tragic? I definitely need to explain, then. When I think of 9/11 I remember an atrocious attack by hate-filled zealots. My reaction to that act is anger at the perpetrators and their accomplices and sympathizers. I tend to have a very different reaction to tragic events for which no one is responsible, like a natural disaster. Does that clear it up?
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Maybe Patterson's living in the alt universe...
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We stay in the Twin Towers, but the soundtrack plays that Carole King song, "I Feel the Earth Move Under My Feet"... "I feel the sky tumblin' down, a-tumblin' down..." Terrible. Maybe yours is worse now that I think about it because while mine is too on the nose, yours has that terrible irony of being a sweet, happy song. Like playing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" in the middle of a gunfight.
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"It’s bad enough when a love story aims to rob the audience of a happy ending through an easy but tragic twist of fate accident like being run over by a bus or struck with brain cancer or some such horrible thing; but when you invoke the single most profound, horrifying, culture changing event of the modern era, you best have something powerful to say about it." - Massa
If you'd been there that day, you'd never say something so stupid. It's one thing to see it on television - we all did that a thousand times. It was quite another to be in the street and see that cloud coming at you, having no idea what it was, and start running with everyone else in a kind of fear you never even knew you could feel. Trust me. Sorry to preach, but people who say "get over it" make me wish they'd been the ones at the top of the towers instead of the good people who died." - Rex Carsalot
should be allowed to tackle such subject matter. This is beyond crass. Beyond trash. To turn 9/11 into a Sixth-Senseian gimmick is stomach turning. Top it off, a BRIT! is the leading man???? How patriotic." - XiMan
People died from 90 different countries on 9/11. But don't be naive. 90% or more were Americans. This is an American tragedy. That's a fact, not a "point". But if I were making one it would be that only a non-American would stoop so low as to use this tragedy for some kind of half-ass emotional pay-off. It isn't. It never will be." - XiMan again
THe difference is, people knew what they were going to see when they saw Titanic. The movie is called Titanic. If this movie was called "9/11", it wouldn't make it less corny, but perhaps less offensive. Also, Titanic interweaved the love story with the disaster and didn't tack it on at the end for a twist. If a movie set in the early 1900's ends with the couple deciding to take a cruise and then you discover the cruise is the Titanic before it rolls to credits....it would be similarly cheap. But this is somewhat worse since most Titanic survivors and their immediate families are dead." - You, BumLove
"However, this sounds like a cheap, exploitive "twist" designed purely for shock value." - Big Jim
I don't have a problem with films about 9/11, like most of them that have been done, including Reign Over Me, despite the fact that it sucked. But exploiting 9/11 like the politicians have been doing...it's just repulsive. I'm not outraged because I was never gonna see this. But if this appeals to you...your taste in films differs from mine." - You, BumLove, complete ignoring that I said this film looks like shit.
So, according to you and Massa -- 9/11 should only be in films if there's a profound message to deliver. That sounds like art-gestapo bullshit to me. Sorry if that's the way you roll, but it's not how I roll. -
chances are you were too young to understand the emotional trauma of watching thousands of people die in an instant on live t.v. Thats about as "Running man" close as I ever want to get to watching death. Yes it's been almost 10 years, but years do not erase mental scarring.
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...you need to learn the art of being concise. That last post could have been several paragraphs shorter. It will really help you make your points better. The shotgun or kitchen sink method causes people to eventually stop listening, and you can tell yourself you have won an argument when people just walk away. Basically you're saying, you don't like this film, but defend to the death this film's right to cheaply exploit 9/11 for this cheezy Robert Pattison romance/angst film. We're going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think 9/11 films should have profound messages...but they shouldn't be cheap where the tragedy is tacked on as a gimmick. That's all.
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My apologies for misinterpreting your statement. I need to go back to caffeinated coffee in the morning.
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I think Massa would not have been offended if the plot twist had been done WELL. Not so much artsy or epic, just done well. But to me it sounds a lot like the last-minute 7th grade short fiction ending I described writing above, except someone put $50 million dollars into developing it as a film. Now THAT'S offensive and depressing.
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"Hey its 9/11" should never be a plot twist.
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"art-gestapo" has to be the most retarded made up gibberish i've read in awhile. Art is not inherently above criticism. This is a criticism. Your pretense that its an attack on the sanctity of expression is as equally pretentious and misguided as the 9/11 outrage you are railing against.
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Mar 09, 2010 10:45:56 AM CST
Did "I'll Remember You" by Elvis play softly in the background d
by butterbean
For maximum effect.
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Fans seem happy with the ending.
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That movie was designed PURELY for pulling your heart strings. That's the cheapest tear jerking plot of 20th century film, stretched out over several ass-numbing hours. It could have easily been any ship traversing the Atlantic at the turn of the century and been given a plot twist in the last 30 minutes to reveal it was the Titanic. But that "T" word is what sold tickets. Making Remember Me a romance movie titled "9/11," like you suggested, would have been more exploitative to the Notebook and Dear John crowd than simply tacking it on to the end of a movie called Remember Me. The irony in your statements is way out there.
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...watching 2 hours of Robert Pattinson doing his laundry, even if a washing machine drops on his head at the end.
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I expected Sarah MacLachlan's "I Will Remember You" myself.
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Massa pretty much says that wasn't the case, it just wasn't done in an effective matter.
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"strange it's rarely the Christians or the Jews who are the instigators of such massacres" BULLSHIT, stop talking out of your ass. You do realize the recent attacks by Muslims in Nigeria were reprisals for the Jos riots in January during which Christians slaughtered hundreds of Muslims, right? Get some perspective, chief. Ever hear of the Crusades? Don't even TRY to paint any religion as morally superior to another; every single one of them has blood on their hands. They've all been used at one point or another by corrupt hypocrites as tools to incite rape, murder, and theft for their own selfish ends.
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...the audience is onboard the Titanic with the characters for most of the film, and we all know how it ends. If Remember Me was named 9/11, at least the people who may watch this film would have the option of avoiding it...as did people who chose not to see World Trade Center. This is an M. Night Shymalan style ending...only it's using recent tragedy for the emotional punch. The Titanic comparison has no legs.
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Please don't let this be the catalyst in resurgence of movies with untrustworthy narratives/setting reveals.
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While I'm sure he does have a bias against Muslims based on his last post, he does have a point when it comes to recent events. Christians did terrible things back in the day (everyone did) in the name of religion. Unfortunately, I think we're going through Islam's Dark Ages. Hopefully soon they'll have an Enlightenment period but I doubt it will be in my lifetime.
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I'm gonna sound like a big ol hypocrite for this, because i agree with your political views of religion (oxymornic sentence?) but your telling someone your opinion because of someone elses opinion,even if it is historically inacurate as an opinion your still giving yours while shitting on someone elses? Your a fucking loser.
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The art gestapo bullshit to which I'm referring is this blanket condemnation of ANY AND ALL films referencing 9/11 or evoking 9/11 imagery. It's a fact that filmmakers went through their films after 9/11 "cleaning up" the scenery to remove images of the towers. Yes, there was outrage at one second appearance of the towers in the Omen remake. There were even critics who wanted god damn Fight Club altered for future DVD releases because of the imagery.
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They were wrong because they ignored blatant criterias for the end: 1st - Israel re-enters the land (1948) The generation that sees this will not pass before the return of the Son of Man (Mat 24:34). A generation being 70 years (that's means by 2018). 2nd - Wars and rumors of Wars (Mat 24:6). Turn on CNN. We've had wars and world wars before, but wars AND "rumors" of wars??? Only in the 21st century. 3rd - Nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom (Mat 24:7). Burma, Sudan, Pakistan, Iraq, Russia, South Ossetia, Iran, US, Afghanistan, N. Korea, et al. World wars have two sides. This is describing an increase in Conflicts. 4th - Famines, Pestilences, and Earthquakes in Various places (Mat 24:7). Famines: 1.02 billion won' eat today. 5.6 billion are at poverty. Unheard of numbers previously. Pestilences: AIDS, Cancer, SARS, Swine, Bird, Avian, et al. Earthquakes: CNN lately? They're happening more frequently every day (literally). That's also unprecedented. 5th - These things are the beginning of labor pains that birth armageddon (Mat 24:8). Now, if you can show me a freeze frame in history where ALL of these things were happening on the earth SIMULTANEOUSLY and Jesus didn't return, then yes, it would seem that I am mistaken. But you won't...
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I said Titanic could have easily been a differently titled film with a ship whose name we did not know until the last 30 minutes, or it could have been about the Titanic and called something else (for example "Jack and Rose"), but it was the "Titanic" part that sold the tickets. The whole movie was marketed on peoples' knowledge of that event. People went into it knowing it would be a cheap one-two punch assault on their emotions. They went into it expecting to cry. In other words -- the movie was made PURELY to exploit your emotions. If this movie was called 9/11, like you suggested, that would have been even more exploitative. Thus, the irony in your statements. I can't repeat myself much more. Fingers are tired.
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How exactly did you manage to go from "I'm looking forward to Eclipse" (paraphrase) to "the end is nigh"?! All obvious jokes aside, that's quite a tonal shift!
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Rumors qualifies as a sign of the impending apocalypse? Really, it's come down to rumors? Sorry, but that's happened all through history. All of it.
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...But now im suspectin vampires had somethin to do wit it...
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More of a segue.
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With the sole exception of Israel returning (which was a self-fulfilling prophesy, was it not?) every one of the things in that list is pretty much happening all the time and always has for all of human history. A freeze frame that lacks any one of them would be quite a find!
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Then it should be easy for you to list them. "All" of them. There's only 5...
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Self-fulfilling prophesy??? Riiiight... You do know that it's NEVER happened to another nation, don't you???... Ever. Again, if this has happened SIMULTANEOUSLY before, surely someone can list the events.
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...I understood perfectly, and explained why I disagree with you. Yes, a movie called 9/11 would be exploitative, I understand that, but people could avoid it instead of being ambushed by it. I see what you're saying about Titanic exploiting the incident about the boat, but people went to Titanic wanting to see a film ABOUT the boat. The love story was what people didn't expect...and they were pleasantly surprised and that's why the movie caught on. If Titanic was set on a different boat, even a fictional one, and was merely billed as a love story on another boat, and then the boat happens to sink, it probably wouldn't have been successful. The brilliance of the film was the fact that the audience knew how the movie was going to end in terms of the disaster...but not the relationships. That's why it was important to use an event that everyone knew about, and was more of a storytelling device than exploitation because most of the audience was not affected by that tragedy. In this instance, 9/11 has absolutely nothing to do with the movie. Nothing. Since it's tacked on at the end, you could just as easily have Robert Pattinson get hit by a car instead of having thousands of people die with him. They are using that tragedy, which has nothing to do with the rest of the movie.
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the time to be an hero is now, if it was ever, surely?
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... how long is long enough for you before people can start using 9/11 as a plot device? Because like it or not, there have been countless world changing events used cheaply in movies. Did you have similar complaints about "Pearl Harbor," a steaming turd of a movie? Or "Inglorious Basterds," which, while a great movie IMO, does not deliver the powerful message that you and Massa are seeking from historical events. If the time limit is not 10 years, is it 20? 30? 60? You people act like 9/11 was some small, personal tragedy that only a sacred few have a monoply on. It was not some simple murder-suicide. It was perpetrated as an act of war and has been dealt with as such at the cost of blood and treasure. And not just our own. To me, something that big can be referenced however one sees fit, especially when its consequences have been felt throughout the world.
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I'm tired.
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One small thing fella - you talk about a generation being 70 years. You sure?
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I'm no hero bro. I just hate surprises. I figure it's better for me to know what's coming
than to be caught off guard like a schmuck. I hate being caught off guard. I also hate being on the losing team. So yeah, I'm down for Jesus. He's pretty cool once you get to know him one-on-one. Which you can't do if you belong to any kind of "organized" religion. That's all bullshit now. -
Sure it was. By winning the war, leaders of Christian nations acquired the power to shape the map according to their desires. Had they had an ancient tradition predicting Madagascar would be populated by Inuit, and that would prove their religion true, there would be lemurs pulling sleds today. Israel didn't just pop back into existence of its own accord.
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Were those people retarded. The movie was marketed as a love story. Official trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26HJ52yRz2s
Yeah, I would never know that movie was about the forbidden romance between Leo and Kate with the ship as a backdrop. Not in a million years. -
I, for one, think people should stop being pussies about it and tackle it head on. But a twist like this is offensive because it's lazy and without context. What the fuck exactly does 9/11 have to do with anything in the fucking plot? Why be so coy about when the movie is set or where the dad works? It's sensationalist but it completely lacks context. The filmmakers are using 9/11 in the most craven way possible here. "OH, BY THE WAY, IT'S 9/11!!!!"
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Good question, young padawan! And yes, I'm sure--when it comes to the nation of Israel in the end times, a generation is 70 years. See Daniel 9:2 and 9:24.
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never tells you it's set in the 1940s and that there's a war going on, only to reveal at the end: "What day is it?" "It's August 6. My grandfather died five years ago to this day, in 1940." "Oh, I'm sorry for that." "No worries, I'm just going to this beautiful Hiroshima morning! By the way, what time is it?" "Oh, about 8:15. Hey, what's that noise ...?"
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Your 2nd and 3rd point are the EXACT same thing- WAR! WAR AND RUMORS OF WAR!!! Its been happening for centuries, sorry pal. That one's easy. And your 5th "point" isn't a point at all, its just an explanation for the criteria. So that doesn't count. And famine and pestilence- again, all over the world ALL of the time. The only reason this is "unprecedented" today is because the world's population has exploded compare to 1,000 years ago. But let's not forget the Crusades and the Black Death and wars and battles all over the earth and plagues and Spanish Flu and Polio and yadda yadda yadda. Sorry, its been like this for all time. Everyone thinks they see the "signs"
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I saw a screening of this last week and you'd have to be fucking blind not to know it was set in 2001. It begins in 1991 when the girl's mom is murderd and after Chris Cooper's first scene, it says in BLACK AND WHITE 10 years later on the screen. The title is called Remember Me? What the fuck do you think is going to happen?
If you're punched in the gut then you're not paying attention. Jesus, even the film synopsis says it's set in summer 2001. People just want something to yell and bitch about but whatever.
I thought it was well done and not exploitative at all and from reviews I've seen so far, I'm in the majority.
I'm not a 16 year old girl for fuck's sake and I like it.
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"most profound, horrifying, culture changing event of the modern era"????
Wow, worse than the Holocaust, huh? Worse than the Vietnam War? That sentence is more offensive -- and clueless -- than anything in the movie. -
Is a sub par romantic drama being reviewed on what used to be a site for nerds and being told that a movie the majority of the readership wouldn't see in the first place sucks.
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Colonel, you're complaining about the talkbackers opinions about this movie? We haven't seen it. So what do you care if talkbackers bitch about this movie? What's in it for you, hmmmmmm?
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After 9/11, Claire decides to take a trip - on the Titanic! She survives because she was rescued by - the Hindenburg! But she'll be OK. They dropped her off at the top of the U.S. Embassy - in Saigon, April 29, 1975!
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[Insert a Serious History Lesson.] In the Google age, there is no excuse for not having a decent grasp of history (I'm not attacking you--just saying). Wrong. Israel was given their land by the United Nations (the entire World) because of the guilt they felt from the Holocaust (another event God prophesied about in the book of Deuteronomy). It had nothing to do with trying to force majeure some Christian ideal. You do know that Christians turned their faces during the holocaust right? And that Catholics (the vast majority of Christians) befriended Hitler (who was in good standing with the Catholic church at time of his death), right? Christians today (who mostly aren't people Christ would label as such) are in enmity with Israel, as they were then. They beleive they've somehow replaced Israel in God's heart. The only way to explain Israeli Jews (the most persecuted people throughout history) regaining the land God promised them is to give God his props for being unable to lie. Also, after they were given their land they fought several wars against IMPOSSIBLE odds (Six Day War, Arab-Israeli conflict, et al) and won in inexplicable ways.
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It will probably be years before I see this film, when both my legs are broken and I'm depressed and eating cheetos and in the mood to feel good about myself and I stumble upon it when it's finally on commercial cable. But thanks for the perspective. If what you say is accurate, then no one should be surprised how this film would end and, if that's the case, this ending doesn't sound tacked on to me like others are saying. In any movie described as taking place in summer 2001, or set ten years after 1991, there should at least be a reasonable expectation that 9/11 will play a role. In that case, all this whining is unwarranted. And Massa's shock just seems stupid.
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what a doctor would call 'delusion'
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Loving your detail-specific accounts of these 3 events (I stand corrected). But you're missing the most important determining factor....ALL of the events (all 3) must occurs after 1948 (Yes, that's after W2). Does that help you narrow down this unending list of examples???
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D.Vader: I'm talking about recent events, too. SubliminalJones implied Muslims were morally inferior to Jews and Christians and used the very recent slaughter of hundreds of Christians at the hands of Muslims in Nigeria as an example. The reason I'm seeing red over that is because this week's slaughter happened as a direct result of Christians murdering hundreds of Muslims just two months ago. His saying one was more bloodthirsty than the other is completely moronic and proved to me he had no idea what the real story was, he just used a headline to support his own prejudice.
meta4: I'll be offended at being called a "fucking loser" once you A) start typing coherent sentences that have anything to do with what I wrote, and B) learn the difference between "your" and "you're." -
...they should start the movie at Robert Pattinson's funeral, where his name is being read amongst other 9/11 victims...and then cut back to the start of the film. That would be a better way to do it and would eliminate any of the twist ending complaints. Colonel Klink says it isn't meant to be a surprise and you are shown enough to know it's coming...but Massa's review sounds like it's otherwise.
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Mar 09, 2010 11:55:07 AM CST
Klink, my fellow colonel, you raise interesting points.
by colonelfatheart
I'd like to see Massa's response.
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...The story of a young interracial couple who confess their love to each other just as the hurricane approaches the coast or shore or whatever...
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"A romantic drama set in New York City during the summer of 2001, where Tyler (Pattinson), a rebellious young man, meets Ally (de Ravin) through a twist of fate. Her spirit helps him heal after a family tragedy, though soon the circumstances that brought them together threaten to tear them apart."
Wow. It's set during the summer of 2001? In New York City? I wonder how it ends! -
....set in New York in 2001 has to end with the main characters getting killed in the twin towers. LOL....Jesus...AmericanMythos, you're trying a bit hard to seem smart...and failing....
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Does not make it seem like it was set in 2001. I mean doesn't he use an IPHONE at one point?
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A plant? Bawhaaaaa. Yeah, ok. And I don't care what the talkbackers bitch about. I was referring to Massawrym. I've lurked her for a long time and his outrage at something he should have seen coming (especially as a film reviewer) finally got me to register.
American M, that's all I was getting at...that it wasn't a surprise if you paid attention, so thanks for not calling me a plant or worse. LOL -
So I simplified. This is a talkback about a 9/11 romance, after all. The point is that all the major players were familiar with the prophesy. You think "the whole world" had a concensus on the matter? The people who wanted it to happen had the power to make it happen and they made it happen. It was the people, the humans, doing their own wills. If you want to posit G-d's influence there go right ahead, but don't stroll up like you've got special knowledge that the rest of us lack.
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...instead of 2001...because then, instead of getting gunned down in Grand Central Station...Al Pacino would have been killed in the twin towers, LOL.
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...this hardly seems worthwhile since surely you must be joking...but instead of investing a lot of time in this I will simply refer you to the book A Distant Mirror, written by perhaps the greatest American historian, Barbara Tuchman. It very specifically demolishes the rubbish you've been spewing by engaging in a point by point comparison between the conditions in the 14th and 20th century. In both cases all of your "criteria" above were bitterly, brutally met. If this isn't enough I will be glad to at length point out other high points in AD history, from the truly horrific 10th and 11th centuries through the ultimate periods in the post renaissance world for "wars and rumors of war", 1615-1650, 1795-1815 and 1908-1918. Some great famines and plagues during every one of these periods too. And they are just a few examples.
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The subject line of your post read "Fucking Blind People". Does Massa comprise of more than one person? I know AICN reviewers are fat and all...but still. Then you said "People just want something to bitch about..." Again. You never addressed Massa once in that post....Mr. Planty planty Plant.
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Is pure simple perfection. If you were merely annoyed by it... well I don't know what to say about that. Never heard it expressed in quite those terms before. "Frustrating" is the word most often used by those who dislike cinema that does not, from their point of view, "resolve" completely...
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Is pure simple perfection. If you were merely annoyed by it... well I don't know what to say about that. Never heard it expressed in quite those terms before. "Frustrating" is the word most often used by those who dislike cinema that does not, from their point of view, "resolve" completely...
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Is pure simple perfection. If you were merely annoyed by it... well I don't know what to say about that. Never heard it expressed in quite those terms before. "Frustrating" is the word most often used by those who dislike cinema that does not, from their point of view, "resolve" completely...
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- though perhaps it is -- it's just that it's DUMB.
if the movie has nothing to do with 9/11, then why is that the big end reveal? That's lazy twist writing at it's worst!
They might as well have just had him get hit by a car and then cut to black. Brilliant!
A good twist ending resets the framework of the film in a manner that the entire film is changed upon reviewing by watching it. All kinds of clues become obvious, etc., etc. Just killing a character at the end of the film UNCONNECTED TO THE PLOT is useless.
If the plot of this film had been about people dealing with or reacting to a 9/11 death - for example that reveal occurs midway through the film -- then maybe that would be something, but as it stands he seriously might as well have been hit with a car! -
...the Israelis won in "inexplicable ways"? Do you consider US trained pilots flying better planes, a professional army with almost no corruption, and a unified command inexplicable?
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Holy shit, if ONLY the world knew about this the past 1000 years!! It could have been prevented!
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Why the personal shots bro? Just answer the question. Also, please don't ignore the state of the world and of the "power" players at the time of 1948. You can only lack knowledge if you blind yourself to the truth. Which is in vain, because the truth is still coming. They didn't give them the land for their own will. They gave it to help themselves sleep at night and then they left them totally defenseless. Seriously, I'm trying to understand how it would be their will for Israel to be in the land when they gave the land as a pacifier then turned their backs??? You're confusing modern Christians (the REAL ones, like myself) who back Israel today, because we know scripture, with the ones circa 1948 who didn't give a damn.
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Mar 09, 2010 12:10:25 PM CST
heh, remember all those people who KNEW that the world would end
by mynamesdan
and then they couldn't agree whether the milennium passed at the start of the year 2000 or the end of the year 2000? Where are THOSE guys right now?
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Remember, it's not a rule to act like an insolent, insensitive little cunt on messageboards.
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At some point in the future, the world will end. But the here are a few of the signs to watch out for: There will be WAR! Lots of war! And rumors of wars starting somewhere else! People will be sick! There might be an earthquake or two! Maybe even a ... wait for it... VOLCANIC eruption on some poor island that's know for having volcanic eruptions! And people will be poor in many places around the world! And starving! Which has never happened before! And some new country will be created... The Muslims in Iraq will split the country and the Kurds will get their own bit of land! Mark my words, when this happens, all together, its the beginning of the end! And some day, a visitor will come to earth from the stars. And when THAT happens, its all over! I'm a prophet! Bow before me!
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Sorry my use of the English language sucks for you and sorry I didn't SPECIFICALLY say the reviewer instead of referring to him as "people." Jesus christ, touchy much? Dude, I didn't know how careful I had to be about offending people in the comments by mispeaking.
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...gave the area comprising modern Israel to the Jewish people. I will not pretend to know if they were men fulfilling the will of God, but if they were they worked his will in a lot of dirty ways. And actually there was even some sentiment among the Young Turks who took over after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire that a Jewish state should be created in the Middle East, but the notion got swallowed up in post-war political manuevering. And there had been some sentiment in England to push for a Jewish state from the end of World War One forward. You're free to look for God's hand in whatever you like, but if the creation of Israel was a miracle it was a homely one done with all the usual evils that accompany human enterprise.
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Serious inquiries only. Read up on the Six Day War and the EARLY history of the modern nation of Israel. I believer you're referring the Yom Kippur War, which the US did provide aid for (aid only)...but that was 25 years later. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
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I'm just saying you're a plant. That's all.
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Lame.
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Let's not pretend that didn't happen.
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just sayin'...this movie, very obviously, blows
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The "signs" have been there for thousands of years. Just because the Jews got their country back doesn't mean anything more to me as far as the "signs" are concerned. Anyone could have predicted that.
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...what was Nassar's army, his best troops, commanders,army and air support, able to do against Yemen MONTHS before the Six Day War? Inexplicable...jeez.
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Nassar, whose nation took the lead for the Arab world in the six day war, couldn't conquer Yemen. Oh yeah, it was a miracle from on high.
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"Why does it have to occur after 1948?" Re-read the 1st (of only 3) signs.
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You should change your login to Red Herring after that last load of non-sequiturs.
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...Israel was flying Mirages that were much better than the mostly Soviet planes being used by the Arab nations. And on and on. You want me to talk you through the whole Six Day War, Xi-Man? Starting with the premeptive airstrikes that took out so much of the Egyptian air force? I can.
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Curious if Stephen King has any feelings on this film's ending goes. He used 9/11's events to destroy Black 13, a piece of Maerlyn's rainbow. It is stored in a locker beneath the world trade center and it is implied that the collapse of the tower not only destroyed it but actually may have happened because of it's dark draw.
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"Why the personal shots bro? Just answer the question." I didn't take anything remotely resembling a personal shot. To put what I said another way, don't make the mistake of presuming to know more about the history than someone whose only point and reason for communicating with you is to find out if you really believe that Jesus is going to physically return and establish a kingdom on Earth in the next 8 years. I see now that you really believe this and you really believe that you have the evidence to prove it if everyone else would just become as informed as you and have the sense to accept the overwhelming evidence.
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In all seriousness pal, what do you actually think is heading our way in 2018? Be specific, I'm interested in YOUR beliefs, not chapter and verse.
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Considering that Revelation itself was written in a fit of End Times paranoia that pertained to those times, you'd think any rational adult with even a basic comprehension of language and history would think twice before they try to line up the "signs and wonders" in a vague, poetic piece of ancient writing to modern day events. Then again, the world is and always has been light on rational adults, which probably explains why these silly End Times theories get regurgitated and retrofitted to each generation.
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Man, 3000 people died, ok, it has been a terrible event. But it has been SO TERRIBLE jsut because it happened in TV.
Then USA went to afghanistan and then to Iraq. The total of people killed has been almost 900.000 civilian casualties. I mean NINE HUNDRED THOUSANDS. And I mean civilians, as those in 9/11 where. Wrong, right, I don't care. Just stop flogging a dead horse. -
You joined this discussion a little late bro. I hope that's why you're going on about matters impertinent to our earlier discussion. Either way, you may now return to whatever you were doing before. XiMan out!
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...are you saying that neither the United States of France provided military aid to Israel prior to the Six Day War? You suggested that earlier. Please repeat it if you believe that to be true.
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makes the whole prophecy thing even more significant. Because he was a descendant of Nostrodamus, another Jew. Basically, we are at the mercy of a multigenerational Nostrodamus/Rothschild family conspiracy that will soon come to self-fulfillment when Mahmoud Ahmedinejad de Rothschild. You know how Obama wants to build nuclear plants around the country? Yep, that's part of the plan. Only the Glenn Beck and his Mormon Army of Zion can save us now.
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...I read what you wrote. You claimed that this MUST be the end times. You claimed that there had never been another time with wars and rumors of wars to match the 21st century. You claimed that Israel won "inexplicable" battlefield victories. Both of these claims are demonstrably false. Now personally I don't think you're enough of a dummy to make these claims and believe them. So I think you're just here to rattle some cages and chuckle to yourself at how clever you're being. But you're not. I'll quit correcting you as soon as you quit saying stupid things just to mess with folks.
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I'm typing on a phone.
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Mar 09, 2010 12:36:56 PM CST
Col Fatheart, I first realized some pple were "different"...
by d.vader
In late middle school early high school when I had conversations with my friends who believe Revelations would happen EXACTLY as it was written. They also believed dinosaurs were either faked by science or lived with Bible-era humans. They couldn't decide which.
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Oh, my bad. I just assumed when you wrote that I think I'm a prophet and that I know more than everyone--I thought you were taking shots. Because I've never claimed to be anyone or know anything incredible. Now, I have actually READ the book in question (the bible) and I assume you haven't, hence the angst. But you shouldn't be intimidated by me. People know a lot more than me and I'm not intimidated by them. Look, I know it's kinda scary knowing that if there really is a hell, right now, you're probably on the road to it. I've been there buddy. I've engaged in the debate before I knew the curriculum hundreds of times. But man am I humiliated now that I know how ignorant I was to the facts. I can relate.
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Mar 09, 2010 12:39:27 PM CST
Vades, the Creationist museum in Kentucky settled that.
by colonelfatheart
Humans did live among dinosaurs. It's in a museum. It has to be true.
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Haiti, Chile, Taiwan, Turkey ... how else to explain this sequence of earthshaking events? And the fact that Hyundai is building better cars than Toyota. Nothing makes sense anymore.
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How the fuck am I a plant? Because I pointed something out the guy didn't see in the movie? Or because I bitched about it? Seriously, I'm confused here. You get called a plant on AICN because you pay attention to a film better than the film reviwer? Good to know.
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Condescension is surely a sign of pride?
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Mar 09, 2010 12:42:31 PM CST
KENTUCKY JUST TOPPED MY LIST OF VACATION DESTINATIONS
by bringingsexyback
Thanks for the heads up.
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is 9/11 used in a live action americanized version of Doomed Megalopolis
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"...that serves to remind us instead that we shouldn’t forget the tragedy that turned this country into the wreck that it is." This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site. 9/11 didn't turn the U.S. into a wreck. WE turned this country into a wreck, by spending money we didn't have for stuff that clearly wasn't worth it.
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Read what I wrote a little more carefully. I didn't say something WILL happen in 2018. In fact 2018 wasn't even the reason the discussion began. Someone disputed with me that 9/11 was a sign of the end. They said people have been saying that for hundreds of years. I simply pointed out that those people, while zealous and good-hearted, were wrong and were ignorant to the word. Because God himself (not some symbolic symbol)--God himself--said the beginning of the end is marked by Israel re-inheriting the land that they were promised, which happened in 1948. Jesus--God Himself--went on to say that the generation (70 year period) that sees Israel return to the land would not pass before his return. Therefore, BY 2018--not in 2018--Jesus Christ will return. According to His words not mine. Don't shoot the messenger.
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Cut the foreplay and start ranting about the Antichrist already. My popcorn's getting cold.
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BSB. Had to clarify.
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Nostrodamus: "So ... you're married."
Summer: "Yeah. Crazy, huh?"
Nostrodamus: "Not really. I saw it coming." -
Sorry...the condescension just seeps out of me sometimes.
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i can explain the recent trends in earthquakes atleast and wars...
the earthquakes are (as we know) caused by shifts in tectonic plates. they are moving more now then ever because believe it or not, roland emmerich is more right than anyone knows. 2012 will just be a MASSIVE geological shift, and this is all precursor! mayans were one of the smartest civilizations to ever have existed!
as for war, my theory is the extreme basic of animal instinct. we are after all animals, and like ALL animals (primarily mammals), we get very territorial. while some are fought over "tragedy" or "religion", it is a subconscious primitive instinct coming through. humans are just "intelligent" enough to make an excuse for it. territory doesnt have to literally mean land or home.
those are my theories anyways. bring on the hate! haha
but the world will end by a scorge of zombies (through bio-weapons) :P -
http://tinyurl.com/nttyek
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Wow! Worst and most inappropriate ending ever. That is fucking hilarious. The sheer balls of the filmmakers to tack on that ending to try and add poignancy to a shitty romance flick is mindblowing.
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Take heed Ximan.
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Jesus, God and the Bible are all fictions. It's sad you have chosen to take it seriously. Nothing is going to happen in 2012, 2018, or 2112 (unless it's a celebration of the Rush album). History is littered with would-be end-or-the-world types standing on hillsides waiting for the clouds to part--it's never happened and it never will. But do enjoy your stories if it keeps you out of trouble, kiddo.
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Their dinosaurs drag their tails on the ground instead of balancing them in the air when they are carrying people to and from church. Its obviously a very outdated museum already.
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LOL! Go and find out what this means: "Though your sins are like scarlet, I will make them as white as snow."
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"the condescension just seeps out of me sometimes"
What you're interpreting as angst on my part is something else entirely. I helpfully warned you against assumptions and you responded with several more. How is it, do you suppose, that you've been so blessed as to have your eyes opened when our hearts are hard? By your will? Surely you'll say no. Chosen, then? You're in really deep, I can tell. -
Because did you hear God himself say that?
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That was awesome.
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Mar 09, 2010 12:57:53 PM CST
Actually, a Zombie Apocalypse WOULD be in line with the Bible
by d.vader
After all, doesn't it say something about the Dead rising when Jesus comes back? They didn't really say if that was a good thing or not, did they?
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Men can't avoid trouble or sin, that's the whole reason why He died for us. Please do not confuse me with the typical run-of-the-mill crazy Christians. I'm smarter than that. It's sad because, you mean well. You really do. But you're deceived. The worst part about hell is the fact that every man there will know he didn't have to be there. That someone had paid the cost. But they were taught that He was too strict, mean, mad at them--and they never gave him a fair shot. One-on-one. The good news is if I'm wrong, you'll know long before 2018 because 7 of the years b/w now and then are under the Antichrist's rule. In the meantime, I'll still be here. Talkbacking.
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(I almost posted the KY Museum, but that would have been... awkward). They've got a ZONKEY!!
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but as long as you believe in Jesus and perform some ritual signifying atonement, your salvation is assured.
I don't subscribe to that hokey stuff. I find it offensive that one thinks he can pardon himself of his sins/crimes/wrongs through some act of personal faith. It's a cheap way of escaping responsbility for doing wrong to others. -
but if it's anything like romero's dead or black lantern zombies, then no that would not be a good thing haha
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Mar 09, 2010 1:02:39 PM CST
But "The Dragon Hall Bookstore, rich in dragon lore & legends"
by d.vader
... seems a bit incongruous with the rest of the place. But maybe that's me.
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Will you positively identify the antichrist for us when he emerges? If 2018 arrives and you are ultimately shown to have been wrong about your beliefs, will you abandon them or just make an adjustment to your calculations?
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comin misconception of one of the commandments of using god's name in vain DOES NOT mean swearing his name like goddamn or anything like that, but rather...doing something wrong and knowing you can atone for it through believing in god almighty! common misconception of that commandment
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THE BEAST!!!!!
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And I'm Catholic.
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Well put. It's all fake, all pretend. If only the people who believe that nonsense would go away, leave us alone, and stop trying to turn the world into what their self-loathing fantasy says it should be. None of us are going to hell, but religious fanatics are making this Earth a living hell for everyone else.
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I don't think all the nonsense should go away, as for the most part, religion does instill some good morals in many, many people.
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...this talkback has been hijacked.
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Yes. Yes it has.
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[Trying very hard not to be condescending.] We're made in God's 3 dimensional image (Mind/Heart, Soul, Spirit -- the body is merely a dwelling). God is infinitely complicated. But there's one part of his being that makes him understandable (His heart). It is impossible for us to talk to or understand God outside of his heart. "Out of the abundance of the mouth the heart speaks." Words. Jesus is the Word become flesh. Jesus is the heart of God, separated from God, come down to earth to make God understandable. To not believe in God is not a matter of the mind or intellect or predestiny. It's a matter of the heart. It has nothing to do with being chosen. Any man who offers his heart to God will never be lost. Ever. Period. When God mentions "chosen" he's talking about being chosen to WORK for him, which will make you rich in eternity. Very few are chosen to be co-heirs in the next life. It has nothing to do with knowing God. A man's only real choice in life is to choose rather he believes God loved him enough to make a way for him, or that he didn't.
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it was more interesting than dicussing Robert Pattison.
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And perhaps it's better than dicksucking him, too.
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You spotted that. Looks like my parents were right about me all along.
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WRONG. You're deceived. You believe that men sin because they mess up. Men sin because they're sinners. It's as natural to a man as breathing. God--being your maker--knows this about you. He knew it before he made you, but He also knew many would love him anyway (which he considers more precious than the love of angels--who never sinned). Men are made out of flesh--dust. God and angels are made out of spirit--the best stuff around! God doesn't mean you can sin all you want. But he will never let sin come between himself and someone who genuinely loves him. Period. “For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust.” - Psalm 103:14
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If i was gay, would God still love me?
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I know there's no edit button here, but you should really read what you wrote again and give it another shot. Kinda inconsistent. You seem to be teaching but you're really just sharing your imagination with us.
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Brosnan looks out from the WTC as the year 1976 is displayed on-screen and a gigantic, hairy fist closes around his shrieking form.
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...but I think I can round up a few people who might have something to say about that.....
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...are you done mangling history to try to make it support your beliefs now? Because if you're only going to proselytize I don't have a problem with you. But before you throw the Six Day War into your bag of unexplained mysteries you need to read about it a little. Those Mirages the Israelis were flying, the ones that outclassed the MiGs the Arab nations had? They were part of the French military aid Israel had received before 1967. And the M48 tanks the Israelis used to drive the Jordanians back through the desert? Those were from US military aid. But if you stick to just making proclamations of faith you're fine with me.
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That might be fun ;)
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XiMan: "God is infinitely complicated." Yes, exactly. Infinitely complicated. And we as humans are beings with decidedly finite understanding. Ergo, we can never understand anything about a Supreme Being, from origin, to intentions, to feelings. Not a single thing. Except that He employs little people who occasionally steal maps from Him.
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...better than dicksucking Robert Pattinson.....take it away, boys....
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And it was not at all hysterical, it was part of apocalyptic literature that was prevalent at the times. In fact, Revelations refers to the Roman Empire of the day. The Catholic church has followed St. Augustine's interpretation of the symbolic history of revelations, which argues that the 1000 year reign number is not literal but a figurative way of describing the age of the church. Although I do remember the Church teaching that the message has a timelessness about the message to humanity that can be seen in certain symbolic events. It is only the "Future History" viewpoint espoused by some literalistic protestants which formulated in the early 19th century, that sees the books of revelation - I think 4-20 something as being a predictor of future history. I left the continuous history folks who started around the middle ages to see a literal viewing of the book. They pretty much died out though when their prediction did not come to pass.
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XiMan, let me just hop aboard your crazy train for a second and quote the full verse you're using as a pillar for your arguments. Matthew 24:4-6: "Jesus answered, 'Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.'" Or how about this one, Matthew 24:36: "“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." When you sit down for your little chats with J-Spot (I'm assuming at Starbucks, I know how much the Lamb of Hosts loves his Caramel Macchiatos), do you rub his face in the fact that you know when the apocalypse is coming and he doesn't? Does he ever try to tickle the information out of you?
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God defines gay differently from the world (he defines just about everything differently from the world). The world says that you're gay if you have a high-pitched voice, are a girl who plays sports, if you "attracted" to someone of the same sex. God says you're gay if you have sexual intercourse or fornication (porn, etc) with someone of the same sex. But to be TEMPTED to do those things is not a sin. Because temptation itself is not a sin to God. Acting on temptation is the sin. Jesus was perfect in every way and he was tempted for 40 days and nights by Satan himself. But he did not act on those temptaions. Short answer: Yes, God still loves you. He can't stop loving you. " For God IS love."
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Seriously, that's just daft. You might as well have had the foot from Monty Python come down and squash him.
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i rarely add to these types of conversations but....
its not worth arguing with people like Ximan. especially those who are as intelligent as him. this is mostly because i REFUSE to accept the bible as a primary resource. while its certainly true that many historical events in the bible that are depicted can be backed by other historical documents does not mean that it is a work of the divine Word of God. It was written decades after Jesus walked the earth AND the only version we have of it are the books that certain Popes CHOOSE to be included in the bible.
again just to emphasize: the bible is not a primary resource. and the "quotes" that are supposed to be straight from God are obviously not from him. its just written in the book. one must be a rational "reasonable" person to acknowledge this. -
Catholics, of which I am one, do not see the End of Times in Revelations. I should say mainstream Catholics. And I am including the Vatican in that. It is only some literalist protestants, and a few literalist Catholics (they exist) who do believe that.
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But gay people choose to sin? WHAT THE FUCK????
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To counter my response with yet another passage ... I'm under the impression that you don't know how to relate to other people except with Bible references and proselytizing. It's kind of tragic. The mind has the potential for wide reaching thought, yet you limit your thinking to words from one single book. Never opening your mind to other possibilities, never analyzing. Just living by a script. Good luck with that.
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...I've only met a couple Catholic literalists in my life. It's always a vaguely surreal experience. By the way, hey!
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the ending to A Serious Man is fucking great. LOVE that movie. sorry to say, but YOU DIDN'T GET IT.
its ok though. the Coen's stuff goes over a lot of people's heads. also I loved The Mist. great ending. truly horrific.
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If opening up my mind makes me sound remotely like the hot air you just blew all over the place...I'd rather have less than wide-reaching thougts. I quote the word of God because that is the curriculum buddy. You don't quote it because...is it possible you don't know it?Sorry for the sarcasm. Here's one more: "For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."
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There are all kinds of Catholics, apparently. Beat this story: In highschool I was invited to a prayer meeting at a Catholic school. I went expecting something like a church service. What I got was several school employees and parents of my fellow students pretending to speak in tongues, copying each others' gibberish and trying to get me to do the same. Rarely have I been so uncomfortable.
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Wife and I had a longer discussion after A Serious Man than we've had over a movie in quite some time. Terrific!
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I think I met the same two of them! Yes, it is quite strange. hey totally off subject, do you read Cherryh?
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Reading is fundamental. Re-read it. You'll be hard pressed to find the word "choose" or any variation of it. You guys are getting caught up on sin because the idea of sin deceives you. You love sin (like every man) and you don't need my crazy ass reminding you that it's evil (that makes it a lot less enjoyable). That's why you have to search the scriptures and open your heart to Christ. Because you're putting sin between a deeper understanding of the truth, when He's already taken care of it. God doesn't expect you to be perfect. But he does expect you to love him, because his love for you is MIND-BLOWING. He died for YOU! After you admit that he loves you, deeply, you will inevitably love him back. As time passes, you will love him so much that you will want to start saying no to your temptations (but it is a process! so get started now). That's all he wants. He wants your heart to turn towards him. Your sins will follow.
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...eeek. I come from Catholic stock on my mother's side of the family but my sister (who was eight years older than me) was a bit extreme in her faith. When I was a child she would take me to three services on Sunday. We always went to Our Lady of Sorrows and Tabernacle Baptist but the third church varied. Sometimes it was a Unitarian church where these extremely sweet little old ladies gave me clothes and comicbooks and candy. But there were also trips to charismatic churches where yeah, things got pretty funky. Even so, I don't know what my reaction would be to Catholics going holy roller. I would guess fear would play some part.
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Although it too has divisions.
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Really!?!?
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I think that was in late 60's to mid 70's. I never actually met anyone from it, but I heard about it.
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...oh yeah, though not compulsively. And she's still going strong.
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You're only human, not divine.
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Let's say you die tomorrow. Now you're standing before the throne of God and they ask you: "Why should we let you in?"--Actually, it will most likely be--"What have you done with the blood of Jesus?" And you say "Well, everytime I went to the Catholics they were weird. And the protestants were loud and weird. And blah, blah." Do you really think he's going to say "Ok. Come on in."? A) You would HATE heaven if you don't love God b/c EVERYONE there loves him and that's all we do is love him! B) You live in an age of limitless knowledge at your very fingertips (at this very moment) and you never took the time out of the year to find out what HE is about--not some denomination that He never ordained--but HE himself? Wise up. There won't be an excuse--especially for us!
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GOD made me a sinner, right? Oh, and by the way, "acting on temptation" implies CHOICE. You may not have used the word "choose," but that's what you meant. Semantics: the only thing Xtian fundies are "good" at.
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...It even sort of bums me out to think that the Antichrist was just stinking Titus. I can understand the yearning for a more universal meaning to "prophetic" scripture. I'm not championing it, mind you, but I can certainly understand it.
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I do not disgaree with the concept of Ecumenicism, but you are mixing and matching Christian beliefs, and espousing an End of Times that is not embraced by the whole and certainly not the majority of Christians.
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It is the sequel (written 20 years later) to Cyteen. Cyteen is one of my all time favorite books of any genre. Regenesis, while doing a very good job with the characters, just meandered at times. Not a bad book, and I am glad that she is getting back to Union space, but it pales in comparison to Cyteen.
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With its own Smokey Anti-Christ.
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We got cheated out of Damien! I wanted the Final Conflict! Maybe I should not have put that exclamation point on it though.
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...Cyteen and reread it. I have pretty fond memories of Cyteen. This isn't the kind of sequel that makes you feel less charitable toward the original, is it?
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"you never took the time out of the year to find out" There you go again.
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Ok, ColonelFatheart. I admire the intelligence of your response so I'll give you the point. Choice is implied. And yes, at the end of the day, we do choose to sin. That hasn't changed from the very first man. However, you must cede that choosing to be gay and choosing to sin are two very different statements. The bible clearly tells you that you are BORN a sinner: "Surely I was sinful at birth. Sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5. "Why shouldn't I love sin?" Because when you're honest about sin, you can admit that it's not leading to a fulfilled life. No one truly loves sin. They love the "pleasure" of it. But all sin leads to some form of evil/hurt/pain/loss. It all leads to someone getting damaged. This is the ONLY reason why God wants you to turn from it. God loves people, and all sin effects someone negatively. He wants you to be honest and admit that 30 seconds of pleasurefull bliss can't really compare to the love you feel in your heart (for your mother/father/sibling/bff, etc.) Because the pleasures of the soul are forever. Once you understand this and admit it, you will see sinful pleasure in a new light. And because God has loved you so deeply and ocvered all of your sins (past, present, and future) you will love him like you love that mom/dad/sibling/bff, etc.
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... Im a atheist mainly because of logic and science... but im also a libra and have to be devils (actually gods advocate to MYSELF lol) and say god does exist, just not no religion view of it... as a science man, i can say two things, earth is my god since i literally NEED it to survive and/or my parents since they literally created me... but i will never believe in a demandin, strict, jackass being that craves my worship and attention at all times... dam guy, am i that special?... and if "god" really existed, he made me not like him so why should i try to like him?...
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In fact, it will make you think of it even more fondly. Have you noticed Ximan has not responded to me at all? My feelings are a bit hurt! Ha!
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That entire example was a generalization. I'm not aiming that at you.
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...Granted that i dont die, the world is still somewhat a livable planet, and theres more women survivors than men... my first move when it happens, raidin a hardware store for nailguns, hammers, generators, etc... shit will be fun! (and hopefully my ipod will stil function)
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My bad. Sum it up for me in one TB.
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Mar 09, 2010 2:28:45 PM CST
the single most profound, horrifying, culture changing event of
by edgars_wallace
Jesus, Americans. Get over 911 already will ya? Nobody cares anymore.
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If you look at my original post, I cited "radical" muslims as the perpetrators of this most recent massacre. And, yes, I was speaking in terms of recent history. I am in no way implying that Muslims in general are any better or any worse than any other group that uses religion or God as a justification for their questionable acts. But, citing the Crusades as a way of leveling the moral playing field in this case is disingenuous on your part, at best. I defy you to cite recent examples of widespread,organized Christian and Judaic violence against Muslims that would even begin to put a dent in the bloody legacy that radical Islam has wrought for itself in this last and present century. Admittedly, I was not aware that the recent Nigerian incidents could be seen as retaliation for an earlier transgression against Muslims. However, if so, then it stands as a single drop in the bucket of blood. Sorry, but when it comes to the big picture, I just don't except that we are all on the same moral level.
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If you look at my original post, I cited "radical" muslims as the perpetrators of this most recent massacre. And, yes, I was speaking in terms of recent history. I am in no way implying that Muslims in general are any better or any worse than any other group that uses religion or God as a justification for their questionable acts. But, citing the Crusades as a way of leveling the moral playing field in this case is disingenuous on your part, at best. I defy you to cite recent examples of widespread,organized Christian and Judaic violence against Muslims that would even begin to put a dent in the bloody legacy that radical Islam has wrought for itself in this last and present century. Admittedly, I was not aware that the recent Nigerian incidents could be seen as retaliation for an earlier transgression against Muslims. However, if so, then it stands as a single drop in the bucket of blood. Sorry, but when it comes to the big picture, I just don't except that we are all on the same moral level.
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"The warrior aint no damned librarian! Look it up yourself". I will say, just scroll up a few and read the preterism post and the sophistry and ecumenicism post, and you will get it.
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If you weren't aiming it at me, and you don't think it applies to me, how do you explain me?
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I would absolutely love to know how everything you've said here falls in line with Matthew 24:36-37. How is it that only you and God know when the end of days will be?
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I grok a wrongness with Ximan.
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I think this TB has been more pro religion than any I can remember on AICN in quite a while. It would be more appropriate to say that it is more anti End of Times though.
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Imagine yourself in a room of Koreans, heads to the floor crying themselves into a hysterical fit and bellowing out total gibberish. It was entertaining for a moment, but amusement becomes fear in short order.
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I hear them
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I was freakin' terrified. And they were pushing me to try it - all of them in my face saying things like, "Just let it out!"
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At least you're confident in what you believe. The lukewarm folk are BARF. Go and find out what this means: Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? John 10:34. God is telling you that you have a LOT more authority over your life and your eternal destination than you really want to believe. If you know that God is real, that He loves you, that he died to keep you from the worst place imaginable, but choose not to believe it or love him back--then you are the god of your life and you are deciding your fate, and you should have as much fun on earth as you can because hell is not fun, and you are not in control of your life there--you aren't anywhere near the strongest person there and no one will be able to deliver you. But why? Why not love God? I know it's hard to love the IDEA of God that Satan (the god of this world) has convincingly painted--but that portrait is not God. God is up there on the cross, being tortured to death, to bring you life eternal. If Christ doesn't pierce your heart, nothing will.
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...They were around way before everybody else...detectives dont try to solve a case by askin the new neighbors questions of a victim from twenty years ago, especially if the new neighbor is hearin voices in his head...
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I'm not trying to explain you dude. Seriously. You're misreading this. Ask me a specific question about yourself and I will try to answer. But only God knows your heart bro.
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...Religion= cult... faith= delusion... love= sex until it gets boring... jettl= fluffer...
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I did get on my knees in the circle but the only thoughts that ran through my noggin were (1) I'm in a real life Rosemary's Baby situation and (2) the sex was somewhat worth it.
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...Religion= cult... faith= delusion... love= sex until it gets boring... jettl= fluffer...
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...Ishtar stripped, dropping one item of clothing at each of the 7 gates of hell to win back her lover Shamash from her sister Erishkigal and bring summer back to the earth. Don't tell me I don't have love for the Sumerians or I'll start telling you about Ea and Enlil.
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Checked it out after reading someone mention them above. Wow. Looks like the teen girls are gonna get all sentimental and eat this shit up. Quote from one viewer:
"I was numb for months after 9/11. 'Remember Me' is helping to heal that part of my heart still in hibernation. I'm looking forward to sitting six rows from the front to see it again on Friday." -
I mean, come on give it up for the Big Z!
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If my kid wakes up scared that there is a monster under his bed I can convince him there isn't by looking and reporting back that I see nothing. He trusts me to tell him the truth. I could very easily abuse that trust and tell him that while I didn't see the monster, that might be because he's invisible, so you better be good or else he'll get you. Bad enough, I know, but now imagine I tell the child that while I see no monster, it is often the practice of monsters to trick grown-ups into not believing in them in the first place. How is the kid gonna process that tidbit? That's right. My Dad can't know the truth because the monster has tricked him into telling me there are no monsters, so I can't trust Dad and am at the mercy of the monsters. Ever hear the quote, a fundy favorite, that Satan's greatest accomplishment is convincing the world he doesn't exist? Their worldview starts you in a box like a crated puppy.
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I believe in a God. A lot of folks use this term loosely, but I believe in a real God. All-powerfull, all-knowing, omni-present. Matter of fact, my God boasts that he is the only God. And He came up with the perfect way to prove it: PROPHECY. You see, if you really created all things, then you also created time itself. So you stand outside of time--outside of all things because you cannot be bound by what you have made. If you stand outside of time, you can see how it ends. You can intervene and try and save some people--many people even. But no one else can. Out of all the religions in the world, the God of the Bible is the only God who dares to declare the future. For centuries bible critics said the bible was false b/c there was no record of a "Pontius Pilate" in Rome at the time of Christ. Then one day they excavated his sarcophogus and retracted. Then they said the book of Daniel must have been written after all of the prophetic events it described. Then one day, the found the dead sea scrolls and fold a 1,000 year old copy of the book of Daniel and Isaiah (100% perfect translation--not a single word lost). It may take time, but what God claims to know always comes to pass. And He's the only one bold enough to make that claim. Because he's the only one who can.
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You didn't understand the question. My fault. Suppose I knew everything you know and didn't come to the same conclusion. How would you explain it?
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Mar 09, 2010 2:59:39 PM CST
BumLove, I'm not trying to sound intelligent but you sure sound
by american mythos
You went into Titanic thinking it was a movie about a ship and you were "pleasantly surprised" to find a love story? The marketing for the movie was mainly centered on the love story. I was fucking twelve back then and I remember that. And Colonel Klink merely points out that the movie makes no attempt to hide the fact that it's set on the eve of September 11 and you call him a plant? That's really intelligent. Just face it, you blew your top because Massa mistakenly told you that 9/11 jumps out of nowhere in the film (when really, if a Robert fuckface Pattinson romance movie is set immediately prior to 9/11 there's a chance that, I don't know, 9/11 might just play some role), and so you're stuck insulting people. Don't worry. Happens to the best of us. We get frustrated and we turn into apes at the keyboard. Keep slingin' the insults.
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Shit, I'm paying to see that Mo'Fo'!
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...got his chance to be the in thing back with turn of the century orientalism. Won't be his turn again for at least a couple centuries. Although they're the closest thing to people of the book who aren't actually people of the book for Moslems. Sort of heathen-lights.
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They're way more interesting and make for better movies.
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That's exactly what I have a problem with - assigning "moral levels" to groups of people, be they sects, religions, etc.
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Yes, but the truth sets you free. Lies are bondage! Plain and simple. Don't believe them! What sense would it make for God to make you the way you are and hate you for it???? It's the biggest dumbest lie ever! Don't believe that crap bro. God loves you, plain and simple. He HATES the devil! And has made him the victim of hell--not it's ruler. Satan will be at the very bottom of the pit--where its a million times hotter than an inch above. But we signed over the deed of the earth to him. Now we have to deal with the consequences. But not for long... Jesus is coming back. That fact does not require you to believe it. But life gets better everyday when you do.
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but now I have to get in the car, so, let's keep trying later.
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was playing out an elaborate story that exists only in his mind? That's what Ximan reminds me of.
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... I can tolerate an non omnigod, but an omni potent and powerful god? na... he made us born into sin because of what Adam did... but he already knew Adam was gonna do what he did but he still punishes us for it? thats stupid... also, why would people pray to god when bad stuff happen when he CAUSED it... thats like me askin a bully to treat my wounds he inflicted on me...
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You're not telling me anything I haven't heard before. Instead, directly answer my question: You are quoting scripture as fact and it is your sole basis of argument. Your argument is that you know, within the span of less than 8 years, when the end times will be. I pointed to the scripture that says you DO NOT KNOW that, that not neither the angels nor Jesus nor Gargamel has any clue when that time will be and only God the Father knows. Are you God, then? If so, can I have a pony?
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And I don't believe that any one else does either. The notion that the figure called Jesus was both the son of a god, a god incarnate and human all at the same time completely undermines most of the claims made about his so-called sacrifice. What was being sacrificed? His fleeting (in the eternal lifespan of a god) incarnation on earth, which by his own admission he is soon to repeat (just don't try and pin him down on a date though...).
Who is the sacrifice made to? Himself? What possible meaning can that have? Beyond that, he had superhuman abilities. He was not really human. Humans can't walk on water, raise the dead, curse fig trees, etc. How can he be sacrificed in our place, when he is clearly and by his own admission not really one of us?Robert Anton Wilson had this great theory (at least I read it in one of his books, may have been repeated from some other smart chap) that all religions have to include some abject illogic to demonstrate the faith of the faithful. Some really crazy, or vague, or contradictory rules or stories that are fundamental to the religion that demands acceptance without any proof or satisfactory explanation. So, from the perspective of the faithful, these things don't have to make sense - in fact it is maybe preferable to the believer to have these "mysteries" to wrestle with and pursue as they have the verisimilitude of profundity or complexity.Anyway, XiMan sounds more like a gnostic than anything else with that last screed about the "God that Satan (the god of this world) has successfully painted". He's found all sorts of wonderful, juicy nonsense to have "faith" in. Strange thing to act so smug about one's delusions. -
...just a badass version of Prometheus...
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Why doesn't he destroy the devil. Why is there a capacity for evil?
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that HE was normal and right?
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...He seems open minded, but that jay guy in the lost tbs... man, he is why i hate religious people...
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I saw the dick on some morning show today. He's still got the same limp, mopey personality as when I first saw him giving interviews after Twilight 1. What's wrong with him and Kristen Stewart? And WTF is the appeal of two mopey little emos? As much as I think Kristen is hot, it's really a turn off to see her suck the life out of the room in her interviews.
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That a god would try to understand or empathize with its creation, to experience the suffering and evil he created. It's an atonement, but not for men. But for the god itself. A god who feels bad about what he did. It's resonant as fiction. As a "reality," it's hogwash.
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...you find a dedicated gnostic and it's like a steel trap. Once you throw in the demiurge you can wriggle out from under almost any logical argument. There's a very seductive quality to it.
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God is big on sowing seeds. It's a picture that he designed into nature. If you want to know more, or even any truth at all, you have to plant the seed. The seed is the word of God. You've got to start studying the curriculum. How can a man expect to pass a Calculus test by reading a Spiritual book? He's destined for the worse kind of failure, the kind where he just KNEW he would pass. Start in the book of John. Forget about everything you've ever been taught, and just talk to God. Be honest with him. Say "Dude, if you're real, I really need you to make yourself real to me." God is real! If you do it with an open and honest heart, I guarantee you He will make it all very real to you. I guess the answer to your question is, the only way to know what I know is to read the word, have a real living relationship with God and BELIEVE. Faith is how you know. You know because you believe, and when you believe you water the seed, then over time a tree of knowledge will grow.
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...Will be answered by "you just have to have faith"... always...
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My bitch wife who I love so much (haha) say God gave us free wills so that we can choose to love Him because if we have no choice then we are robots and who gives a shits if a robots love you unless it is a Milla Jovovich sexbot then SWEET but I dont know why God dont make us all Milla sexbots, maybe God is gay... probably not though because he made pussies I love and Death Wish movies. Anyways bitch wife says some of us use free wills to do evil and it kills God to let us do it He must because He love us to much to take it away. I dont get it but she say it make sense and she is much smarter because she took a class at high schools.
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Mar 09, 2010 3:26:52 PM CST
Yeah, but what does the bible say about Biggus Dickus?
by colonelfatheart
Did he exist?
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we can have it at www.residentevilgenius.com
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Ximan is clearly fucking with us. This has to be someone having fun.
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You gotta believe! I mean who thought The Saints would beat the Colts to win the Superbowl? Who dat? That's faith baby! I have faith my Giants will get their shit straight next year and that Eli will wind up with more Superbowls than Peyton. You gotta believe! Can I get an Amen up in here?
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I'm getting off this island while the gettin's good.
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Go G-men!
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Everyone would go see it then. Thousands of people killed by forces higher than we can imagine shouldn't be used as a big OMG moment at the end of a movie. I agree that IS fucking ridiculous! It's making me laugh though, and that's what people will be doing in theaters to, just at the sheer insanity of that being the ending. 9/11 is nothing to laugh at though, it's one of the sickest acts man committed against man for a while (OK far FAR worse atrocities have been committed but, hey, they just involved Asians dying so what does it matter...;)). 9/11 was carried out for the sole reason of creating a terror event (and that's exactly what it was, an 'event') that would be talked about the world over, FOREVER. It was a statement saying you-must-live-in-fear-because-look-what-could-happen-to-your-innocent-western-life. It also helped a lot of people financially and took the opportunity to demolish the twin towers, something that needed to be done at some point but would never have been feasible. The theory that they were built with 9/11 in mind strikes me as an intersting one to ponder... Seabucks rule btw.
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...Ximan is actually the Wandering Jew. Either that, or he's Stephen Baldwin.
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I mean...when you stop and think about it, alot of people were in the buildings when that happened. Who's to say that at least one person, if not more, went through exactly what this character went through before that morning?
It IS a bit of an odd choice for a plot twist, especially right at the end, but I mean...the camera didn't zoom out to show Earth inside a snowglobe, or that it was all just a dream, or anything like that. It showed that the character was in the building on the morning of September 11th.
Sure, the building falls and maybe his character dies, maybe he doesn't. Even though I have yet to see this, I actually sort of like the ending. We don't get a whole lot of...tragic yet sort of ambiguous endings in films, and it's nice to have one once in a while. -
I didn't sling any insults, I just claimed you appeared to be trying too hard to look smart...and were failing...and I maintain that. Your response confirms that to me, and that you're very insecure about your intelligence. If it makes you feel any better, I'll tell you that you won this debate in order to soothe your ego. Ready? Here goes....you win, American Mythos. You're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone it...people like you!
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On that we are in agreeance! That's not what the crucifixion means. The crucifixion has nothing to do with guilt. God made man perfect in a perfect world with a perfect woman, and man said--what a lot of us are still saying--"Screw you. I'll do whatever I want. It's my life." But not all men. Millions, maybe billons of men are already in eternal paradise. The cross was for THEM and the men and women still to come. The ones who would choose to love a God who loves them more, even in their rebellion and sin. He's not guilty. He's righteous! He's love! He can't stand to see certain people go to hell. Because he knew they would love him, if given the chance. The cross is valiant. Not petulent. Also, God--the maker of the soul--knows its true value. The Cross tells us ignorant fools that our souls are incredibly valuable--because they last for all of eternity. God says the WHOLE WORLD and EVERYTHING in it isn't worth 1 soul. One. God dying is a price so big you cannot imagine. But it bought a lot of eternal souls.
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It can be turned into a Broadway musical a la LEGALLY BLONDE.
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...Christians wouldnt be afraid to die and wont try to stay alive like they do ie surgeries, chemo therapy, turnin the wheel so you wont drive the car into that truck, etc... read Haunted by Chuck "fight club author"... if heaven existed, thats what people would be doin
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So, to be clear, you are saying to believe in a god you must believe in a god? The operation you describe in your post above requires me to address, in a personal way, a concept that has absolutely no basis or precedent in my reality or history. That simple act alone (which, when you describe it sounds a lot like invocation) is a demonstration of faith - not an exploration of it, or an inquiry into its source.But the whole prophecy thing really is a strange rock to build your faith upon. The current collection of writings commonly referred to as the Bible is pretty inconsistent. It is curious that so many can extrapolate significance and precognition about the future from a text that can't agree upon it's own recent past. The most confusing example of that being the different versions of the life and death of the star of the whole show, Jesus. XiMan, believe whatever nonsense you want - just don't waddle onto a movie site and start witnessing to us all - it's tacky.
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...I shall leave this tb... i thought jettl was annoyin... at least jett was original
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LOL! Um, yeah...it's called.... prayer.
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You're weird. LOL!
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But the God you deny would really be cruel if he didn't warn you about the other side. If you want to gamble eternity in hell, you will have to deal with the consequences. "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:17-18
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Dude I'm reading Simmons right now! Great reference. Amazing novels.
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God, as you describe it, is a fascist.
We're told that only through the love of God and Jesus may we enter heaven. No matter how good we are, no matter our intent and action in the world, no matter how positively we may affect our environment and the people around us - if we don't embrace the love of God, we go either to Hell or to Purgatory (depending upon your reading of things). We're left either in the soul-rending absence of God (Purgatory) or the pit of torture and suffering (Hell). No matter how we lived our lives, even if we tried hard to avoid the traditonal "sins," the believers get paradise and everyone else gets screwed.
That is fascism. I'd rather burn with the other good people God unjustly punishes than sit by its side knowing such injustice is done. -
...One of my favorite songs and its bout an asshole i dont believe in!
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You have joined Coughlin's Laws in the pantheon of easiest TalkBackers to debate. You both allow your own contradictions to defeat you, so I'm not going to cherish this victory too much. But I'll try. I'll try. Much luck in your future endeavors, good sir. And remember, next time 9/11 creeps into popular culture, just plug your ears, stick out your tongue, go "lalalala" and pretend it never happened.
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You have the heart of a man who would love God. He hates injustice too. But you don't know him bro. Your idea of him is warped. Its not your fault, but you are going to have to be a man and do something about it. Stop blaming God for things the Devil is doing. See, everyone who knows God loves him. The only way you can hate God is if you believe the lies about Him. Invite him in like you would a stranger in need. He's real dude. He's not some old white guy with a beard. He's youthful, strong, beautiful and madly in love with you. If you won't like a God like that, willing to die for you, the truth is you wouldn't feel comfortable in Heaven. But that's only b/c you think hell is endurable. It isn't. Especially if you reject Jesus Christ. Its easier on those who never heard of him.
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sound like Stockholm Syndrome?
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You need to focus on the positives and drop the negatives. Sales 101.
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and he hates the Devil, then he has no one to blame but himself. "I really hate this bastard." "Well, you're God, just get rid of him." (crickets)
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But tell me, what features and amenities does heaven offer?
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you're really not equipped to sell God. Perhaps some training is in order.
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Now, the God-sanctioned "adversary" of the Old Testament, that's the way to go. A trickster, a skeptic, a "Devil's Advocate," if you will, who has God's sanction to challenge him.
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God has. Keeping him on his toes, raising his game, &c. He's like Apollo to Rocky in ROCKY III.
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Good question. You see,men were not God's first creation--angels were. They're made out of Spirit--the material of God. He created them and let them see him and live with him, and he didn't test them. The highest ranking angel decided that what men would later decide. "Screw you. I'll do what I want. Its my life. I'm going to be God!" God has given every creature free will. He's not interested in slaves--that's the devil's thing. So he let him "test" the angels. Keep living in perfect peace, or rebel and take your chances as an enemy of all might God. One-third of the perfect beings joined this rogue angel and there was an actual war in paradise. They lost of course but now God tests every being before they get in his presence. Because otherwise, there could be another war in Paradise. God's still using thius demon to test his creatures, but not for much longer. A million years into paradise we won't even remember him.
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But it's just make-believe, so don't think God will punish you for playing it.
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I dont want to encourage his behavior, but gotta give the devil his due so to speak... didn't you basically just sum up what MC_D said above? Me thinks between all his Borat nonsense he actually said it better in a lot of ways. Ok I said it, let the crucifixion begin.
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When someone is certain of eternity, there is no point discussing, as that person will not listen to reason.
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Stockholm Syndrome it is. "You just don't understand God, bro! Sure he might lose his temper and discipline me on occasion but it's really my fault. If I would just put the lotion on my skin like he asked..."
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You've caught on quicker than I did. You can bring logic to the party but XiMan just refuses to dance with it.
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That last one was too much. Well done XiMan, no point trying to get any sense out of you. You are either an inventive and tenacious (and very successful) prankster, in which case I offer kudos - Or a smug, evangelic non-denominationalist who believes in angels and (presumably) talking snakes and all that gubbins, in which case I can only offer sympathy. Either way, ta ta for now.
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HOOAH!
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Yep, and the weaker the will, the stronger the love for God.
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1) God created us. He could have done ANYTHING. Literally anything. He could have made us born with all the knowledge we would need to be perfect in his eyes. He could have made us so that we would never have to eat or drink or have sex to procreate. He could have made accidental death and disease just never exist. Instead, he planted a forbidden tree in a garden in which two people who did not know the difference between "good" and "evil" lived, allowed a manipulative snake to wander free, knowing full-well what was going to happen. And then punished EVERYONE for all eternity when those two people inevitable screwed up and broke the rules he put in place for no reason. Then, he created germs, diseases, hunger, thirst... not to mention the myriad of weaknesses every living body possesses. He gave us urges, and then told us acting on them is sinful. WTF?
2) For thousands of years, if you sinned (which you couldn't avoid, apparently) you had no recourse. Then, one day, for no apparent reason, god just decides he's going to spend a few decades on earth. Why? Who knows! Some BS about forgiving our sins. The problem is that god didn't need to come to earth to forgive our sins... he's omniscient, he could've done that at any point. So why do all those already-dead people get screwed? Maybe he wanted to get his message out? A big magical banner across the sky for all eternity would've worked a LOT better than relying on word of mouth. Or how about speaking in everyone's ears all at once? He's god, he can do anything he wants to, but THIS is how he does it? Seems fishy. And why exactly does this clear us of sins, anyways? Is there something special about being strung up on a cross? Can god only forgive your sins (which, by the way, are only sins because he says they are) if he sheds a little blood first?
3) Worst of all, after "dying for our sins", god tells us that the only way to reap those benefits and ensure a happy, shiny afterlife is to worship him. Narcissistic much? Doesn't matter if you donate all your money to helping feed the hungry, or housing the homeless, or clothing the cold. Doesn't matter if you spend your entire life trying to find the cure for cancer. If you do not fall to your knees for this god, you will burn in hell for all eternity. And for anyone who has the misfortune of being born in a place that does not have internet or TV, so they only way they can find out about this god is if a bunch of nuns happen to hack their way through the jungle to their village and find some way to communicate with them? Sorry bub, hell for you.
I'm with Dennis. I'd rather burn in hell with the good people who cured cancer or housed the homeless than waste my life pandering to an insecure deity. -
LOL! Funny. By the way, the bible wasn't written in English. The word translated as "serpent" in Genesis is actually seraphim or "shining one". A serpent would have had as much luck seducing Eve as one would a woman today. The devil appears as an "angel of light" when he deceives. That's also in scripture. Get on my level! BTW, everyone knows Angels are in the bible dude. Are u serious???
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Development
While there is still disagreement as to what factors characterize incidents that contribute to the development of Stockholm syndrome, research has suggested that hostages may exhibit the condition in situations that feature captors who do not abuse the victim, a long duration before resolution, continued contact between the perpetrator and hostage, and a high level of emotion. In fact, experts have concluded that the intensity, not the length of the incident, combined with a lack of physical abuse more likely will create favorable conditions for the development of Stockholm syndrome.[1]
The following are viewed as the conditions necessary for Stockholm syndrome to occur.
* Hostages who develop Stockholm syndrome often view the perpetrator as giving life by simply not taking it. In this sense, the captor becomes the person in control of the captive’s basic needs for survival and the victim’s life itself.[1]
* The hostage endures isolation from other people and has only the captor’s perspective available. Perpetrators routinely keep information about the outside world’s response to their actions from captives to keep them totally dependent.[1]
* The hostage taker threatens to kill the victim and gives the perception of having the capability to do so. The captive judges it safer to align with the perpetrator, endure the hardship of captivity, and comply with the captor than to resist and face murder.[1]
* The captive sees the perpetrator as showing some degree of kindness. Kindness serves as the cornerstone of Stockholm syndrome; the condition will not develop unless the captor exhibits it in some form toward the hostage. However, captives often misinterpret a lack of abuse as kindness and may develop feelings of appreciation for this perceived benevolence. If the captor is purely evil and abusive, the hostage will respond with hatred. But, if perpetrators show some kindness, victims will submerge the anger they feel in response to the terror and concentrate on the captors’ “good side” to protect themselves.[1]
In cases where Stockholm syndrome has occurred, the captive is in a situation where the captor has stripped nearly all forms of independence and gained control of the victim’s life, as well as basic needs for survival. Some experts say that the hostage regresses to, perhaps, a state of infancy; the captive must cry for food, remain silent, and exist in an extreme state of dependence. In contrast, the perpetrator serves as a mother figure protecting her child from a threatening outside world, including law enforcement’s deadly weapons. The victim then begins a struggle for survival, both relying on and identifying with the captor. Possibly, hostages’ motivation to live outweighs their impulse to hate the person who created their dilemma.[1][6]
In many cases, capture may also involve the killing (or threat of killing) of the captive's relatives, thereby isolating the captive. The captive is subjected to isolation and so sees even a small act, such as providing amenities, as a great favour. Such captives may side with their captors while believing their captors have conferred on them great importance and love. Furthermore, captives who perceive themselves as the only members of their group not to have been killed may believe that they have been shown a special interest.
Psychoanalytic explanations
Stockholm syndrome is a psychological shift that occurs in captives when they are threatened gravely but are shown acts of kindness by their captors. Captives who exhibit the syndrome tend to sympathize with and think highly of their captors. When subjected to prolonged captivity, these captives can develop a strong bond with their captors, in some cases including a sexual interest.
Psychiatrist Frank Ochberg, widely credited with Stockholm Syndrome's psychiatric definition, describes it as "a primitive gratitude for the gift of life," not unlike that felt by an infant.[7]
According to the psychoanalytic view of the syndrome, this tendency might be the result of employing the strategy evolved by newborn babies to form an emotional attachment to the nearest powerful adult in order to maximize the probability that this adult will enable—at the very least—the survival of the child, if not also prove to be a good parental figure. This syndrome is considered a prime example for the defense mechanism of identification.[8] -
How do you know God ISN'T the Devil? I mean, plagues, killing the first-borns, letting his "chosen" people suffer in a desert for 40 years, creating all those craaaaaazy rules you see in Leviticus, damning people to an eternity in hell for having the audacity to pick the wrong religion out of hundreds of choices, all of which are claiming to be "the right one"? Sounds more like the work of an evil entity than a god.
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...that was a great post and mirrors my exact thoughts (although Im not able to communicate it as well since God made me so unintelligible)...but good shit, sir/maam/it!
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...after I told them I dont believe in God, "do you believe in air? because you cant see it, but it doesnt mean it doesnt exist"...wtf...
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...say those exact words to ANY Christian and they will get pissed...why? he did technically rise from the grave like zombies do...
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Yes, because I love free will, I "test" my toddler with that vicious pitbull that lives next door all the time. Wouldn't want to stop him, because then he'd be a "slave", and we wouldn't want that. Next week, I'm going to install a pit with spikes in the bottom in our kitchen to "test" him further! I'll put a rug over it and everything! It's his choice to fall in or not. Isn't freedom grand? *LOL* You really seriously believe this stuff?
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...we dont need any bitch ass babies who cant fight off a pitbull, its survival of the fittest out here!...not callin your baby a bitch ass tho...
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...we should lay off Ximan, he/she/it hasnt really done anything wrong except express their faith/delusion...now, if he start condemnin people, then we should bash his delusion in...but, he's not so bad and actually gives good answers (although you gotta have faith to actually believe those answers)...
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1) God did make us with perfect knowledge and beauty and also a perfect fellowship with him. We never had to know anything about evil, but we wanted to. You see, putting the tree in the midst of the garden only gave us the oppurtunity to reveal our hearts. We could've been thankful with peace and paradise, but we really aren't. We want to do bad things. Its in our very nature. Watch a 2 year old and you'll see it. We like being bad. That's not God's fault, it's not our fault--but it is the truth. It's what we do with our own free will. God warned us that we would bring death if we choose evil and we still chose evil. And don't deceive yourself into thinking that you would have done different than Adam/Eve. They were the perfect human specimens--you wouldn't stand a chance against the devil.
2) Death can only be covered by the shedding of innocent blood. Think about that for a second. The logical poetry of it. 3)Charitable acts are a front. You must understand your own human nature to understand what this means. People cure cancer and feed the homeless because it makes them feel good about THEMSELVES. That's why they make sure their names are in the papers and everyone sees them being magnanimous. We aren't fooling God with that crap. Cure cancer and charge the poor and elderly into permanent debt for it. Right.
You have a lot of hard feelings toward someone who loves you because you've never read his autobiography. Read it. His heart is on every page. Yes we suffer--but what about God? Does he deserve to suffer? Its never going to make perfect sense to you. But what does???? -
...do Jupiterians believe in God or a big tree?
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...Im just askin, not to be funny, just curious to your answers to these questions...1.you believe in aliens? 2. do babies go to heaven if theyre never baptised? 3. is it wrong to want to fuck god? like say you get to heaven, you love him, follow all his rules, etc, but you have a desire to fuck God, but not in a lust way, more like a tryin to create a family way...
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Here's the thing though. The shock of this ending elevates what would've been a film you had forgotten five minutes after you left the theater, to a movie you'll never forget. I thought it was clever and daring, if not entirely organic to the story. Worst ending ever? Not even close.
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Wait, I'm confused. I only read the script. Are you saying that they changed the ending to just *showing* him in the World Trade Center tower? Cause in the script, it's an awesome shot of him standing there and seeing something coming at him. As it grows bigger and bigger we realize it's a plane. It's a great and tragic shot, and a great twist. I don't think it exploits anything. It shows that there were people out there living their daily lives, who died on Semptember 11th. Because we watched an hour and a half of one of those lives, their death hits you in a way that only hearing about the tragedy on the news could not.
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What I find sad is his lack of faith in humanity. That he would trivialize the efforts of humanitarians and charities just to reinforce his personal loyalty to God is pathetic. Is it a prerequisite for proselytizers to speak ill of others in order to sell God?
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successful troll is successful. You can have your armageddon. but please, do us all a solid and when the world hasn't ended in 2019- make a public announcement about how totally and hilariously wrong you were.
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...eh, sorta agree wit Xi on charities... giving money isnt really a good thing in my mind, actually doin something is good (ie Brad Pitt in New Orleans)... I mean, there was a strip club event where the money would be donated to Haiti...i dont consider that really humanitarianish...
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"God did make us with perfect knowledge and beauty and also a perfect fellowship with him. We never had to know anything about evil, but we wanted to. You see, putting the tree in the midst of the garden only gave us the oppurtunity [sic] to reveal our hearts. We could've been thankful with peace and paradise, but we really aren't. We want to do bad things. Its in our very nature."
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...and I see my question was again met with a seeming lack of understanding. Tempted to give up on this.
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Maybe it would've worked if they'd shown the bomb under the table?
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...and back to the whole "horrible endings" thing, I'd like to nominate "Pay It Forward" as having the most exploitive, assholish ending ever. SPOILER: H.J. Osment - he who sees dead people in "The Sixth Sense," after spending the whole movie doing good deeds, gets stabbed protecting a friend from schoolyard bullies...and fucking DIES. My wife and I were at a screening, and I actually said "are you fucking kidding me??" out loud. Really loud. Was so glad that that movie crapped out.
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MAYHEM BEGINS ONCE AGAIN!!!!
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I never thought anything could knock it out of the top spot, but by god, they did it!
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Don't get me wrong, I'm talking about corporations soliciting donations just so they can make a big one under their name with other people's money - I'm talking about real charity and humanitarian workers. Like Brad Pitt, as you say. XiMan just seems to lump everyone in the same category - all in service to his God.
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...War of the fuckin Worlds... how the hell is ...A. aliens gonna die from something as stupid as germs (almost as dumb as being allergic to water... on a blue watery planet)... ...B. how the hell was Boston so damn nice... ...C. how the hell did that kid survive that explosion?......and ACTUALLY, as some may know, I find the entire third acts the worst ever (in terms of a bad third act attached to two great solid first acts, like Sunshine or 28 Days Later)...
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...I hear ya... but Im also talkin bout those douchebags with a lot of extra money who think they're doing good by givin some to it (but while doin so, are ignorant to whats actually goin on with the cause or within it)...
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FUCK YO MOMMAS!!!!!
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I would like to nominate 2012. The whole movie is shitty, but you won't believe it could get shittier until you watch the alternate ending on DVD. Watch it. You know you want to.
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possibly the best ending of all time, check out (500) Days of Summer. You'll feel uplifted, as though touched by angels.
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Oh I wanna see. The original ending was bizarre. 5 billion people just died and they're smiling at the sunrise. Like, WTF.
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Dancing with the Stars?
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But they acted like Jackson Curtis' shitty sci-fi book was the only book left in existence (and therefore "part of our legacy, because I read it"). I think when they were saving the Mona Lisa and other countless art they probably would save an entire record of earth's literature, either in ship libraries or on the computers. Just a horrible, horrible movie. But fun as hell if you don't mind rotting your brain for a couple hours. I still get a chuckle from the absurdity with which Woody Harrelson eats a pickle.
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Mar 09, 2010 8:57:08 PM CST
BringingSexyBack, I want to be touched by Zooey.
by stereotypical evil archer
I love (500)Days of Summer; the academy should have stepped up and nominated the hell out of it.
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The aliens dying from germs is actually a smart ending. We're the most powerful animal to ever roam this planet, and we could blow it up a thousand times over, yet tiny invisible bugs could wipe us off the face of the earth, too.
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How was (500) Days not nominated for director, actor, actress, editing, screenplay and score is beyond me. You love the movie, you know exactly what we're talking about here. Fucking son of a bitch just thinking about it has my heart racing.
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I was annoyed by the ending of the Mist not because it was tragic, but because it was ridiculously contrived, inconsistent with the previously established motivations of the characters, and cheesy in terms of its overblown, cheap irony.
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I once saw a film called Little Murders, that (spoiler) used a random shooting in much the same way as this one uses 911. That film came out in the late 60's/early 70's, not long after a real-life random shooting perpetrated by Charles Whitman, so it's probably safe to say this idea has been done.
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You guys and your flame wars - in the end it will be an apocalypse created by geeks arguing over whether Lord of the Rings or Star Wars was a better trilogy.
BTW == OMG 9/11 would be a more fitting title. -
Mar 10, 2010 1:07:47 AM CST
Fuck this pre-9/11 vs. post-9/11 bullshit. It makes no sense.
by motoko kusanagi
No fucking sense at all. What's the difference anyway?And don't get me started with my age. I'm over thirty, fuckers.
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...but, ummm, now I'm not so much. I was already struggling with the fact that shiny vampire guy was in it, but so is Pierce Fucking Brosnan. I was vacillating, now I'm not.
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...a fucking tabletop game playing hippy piece of shit critic like Massa. Why does the story have to end poignantly?! Why do you need some sort of catharsis or convenient explanation for the 9/11 ending to be valid? What -- didn't shit-kickers with uninteresting lives die that day too? I'd hazard a guess that quite a percentage of the people killed in the towers were just some poor bastards going about their routine lives. It's not like there were a few thousand people who went to work that day on the precipice or at a huge turning point in their lives. They couldn't all have interesting stories and valid cathartic reasons for dying. The ending just goes to show that people seemingly going about their day-to-day lives can also wind up in extraordinary circumstances that nobody would expect. Seriously, you're the worst fucking critic, not only on this site, but on the whole fucking internet.
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who has been to a don't be gay camp.
I guess you're cured you fucking loser. -
You talk of truth, well here's how I see the truth: this is a win-win situation for you. We'll never shake your faith, and by trying, we're simply giving you the soapbox you're clearly after. I personally feel you're completely out of line for coming on here and peddling the same carrot and stick pitch as the organised religion you say you're against. Lead with fear, follow up with the solution. Pretty much how they advertise bleach. You talk of God's love, but lead with God's wrath. Ximan, I and many people here have tried to be patient and polite, but at the end of the day, you're a fundamentalist. Seriously, have you never considered how the Muslim extremists indoctrinate their flock? Have you ever considered, just for one second, that they might sound JUST. LIKE. YOU?
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I doubt they'd be as excited about the next Twilight film.
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I have a feeling this TB will be refenced many times in the near future, so I need to clear up some things (mostly typographical): Re: 2018 -- 3.5 years of the remaining 8 will be under the Antichrist's rule (1/2 of the 7) The "fig tree" mentioned in Mat 24 is a reference to the nation of Israel. The context of the chapter is in regards to the end times. I stand corrected regarding AID in the Six Day War--but not in regards to odds. Their 264,000 troops were outnumbered 2:1 versus the Arab force of 525,000. Their tanks and air force were outnumbered 3:1. Tanks at 800 Israelie vs. 2,424 Arab. Air Force at 350 Israeli aircraft vs. 939 Arabs. But again, this war occurred 19 years after they reentered the land in 1948. The day after they became a Jewish state they were invaded by 5 Arab nations (Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Lebanon). Where was the aid then??? (By the way: They won of course.) There's no disputing that the early history of the modern Israeli nation is unprecedented. Whatever you believe, please don't write a History paper stating anything different. Unless you like failing. Which is possible. For a lot of your other questions...that's what Google's for.
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troll me twice, I mean, what I'm saying is, Look, you can't troll me twice.
But look at me I HAVE to bite. so tell me- if eight years remain until armageddon, three and-a-half of those will be under the reign of the anti-christ. three and a half is half of seven so question 1: what seven? i mean, where did seven come from? Which seven of the next eight years are the seven? have they started? is the antichrist already ruling? which brings me onto Question 2: Is Obama the antichrist? It seems worth asking this early on, but sorry if you were saving it for a punchline, I know a lot of 'christians' in America can be a bit racistey. Not like out and out racists, but they probably wouldn't let their daughter marry a one a them mud peoples. I digress Question 3: Do you mean the end of 2018 or the beginning? I know it seems pedantic, but the next decade won't begin until the end of this year. Not a lot of people accept this fact but it most certainly mathematically true. A year hasn't been counted off until it has been completed- which brings me to my fourth and final question. Question 4: When will the world end? it might seem impertinent to ask, but since you seem to have studied this quite closely, you must be able to predict (within a year, see question 3) when the seven years will begin, when the rule of the antichrist will really be officially started for his 3 and a half year term. Any other important dates, will daylight saving time still be in use, will there be any new festivals or holidays because of the global religious circumstances- you know, will we start rolling thanksgiving and christmas into one holiday and just calling it "antiwinterval"? Thankyou in advance for taking the time to consider these carefully thought out questions. I hope that you are right and that this talkback is often referenced in the future. To clarify, I'm not really interested in hearing about all the scriptures and testaments. I don't really consider the bible to be an accurate historical document capable of telling us the future, but since your faith in it is positively unshakeable, well as a person who doesn't believe in anything I'm hardly qualified to criticise you am I? So, listen I'm prepared to just totally take your word on all that stuff So if you would be so kind, let's get down to the nitty-gritty. The facts and just the facts, if you please. Let's not argue semantics, or the finer points of who done what during the six-day war. I can read all about it later. What I'd really like to know, Ximan is detailed in the questions above. here they are again:
Question 1: what seven? Question 2: Is Obama the antichrist? Question 3: Do you mean the end of 2018 or the beginning? Question 4: When will the world end? that's all- oh and if you have time I wonder if you have an opinion about which news network will probably secure the first interview with god. I hope it's PBS. Diane Rehm would do one hell of a job interviewing him (her/it?).
I await your answers with heavily baited breath. -
As did countrymen from many other countries. For the British, it was the terrorist attack that killed the most british citizen. For my own country, it was the ONLY terrorist attack that killed portugueses since 1975. And we all moved on, live goes one. And now one amrican over-reacts to a reference to 9/11 at the end of a movie? This "too soon" stuff has to end one day, don't you think?
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I'll humor you back:
1) The seven is the last 7 years (or "week" which is a bad translation of "sevens") referred to in the Book of Daniel. 70 Weeks (or 70 seven year periods) are determmined for the Nation of Israel before God ends all things. Only 69 "weeks" have passed (research Daniel's 70th Week). The last 7 year period begins when the antichrist makes a secret pact with a league of 10 nations. It could have already started. But halfway through it, he will reneg and declare himself to be God and he'll desolate the Jewish temple and all religions. This will mark the start of the Great Tribulation--the period of time on Earth where Satan and his "son" are allowed to unleash hell on earth. Up to this point, even now, the Devil is on a leash and more demons are bound in Sheol than there are free. But they will be released during that time as preview of what hell really is--since so many people are hellbent (literally) on going there.
2) Obama is most likely not the antichrist...but he could be. He fits the description perfectly if you believe America will still be around for the end times. But it won't. America is completely absent from every End Times prophecy. America is actually Daughter Babylon or "Mystery Babylon", the woman who rides the 10-headed beast. But the beast turns on her and devours her (Rev 17). The secret pact with the 10 kings referenced above is an Anti-American pact. They will plot to take out America in a single day (the only way to successfully pull it off). This is the prophesied end of our government (not the people, though many will die that day). They will nuke all of our major cities and territories (inclding ancient Babylon--Iraq). They will be targeting military, government, and financial infrastructures. Then we'll be invaded and plundered. God describes this in Jeremiah 50 in incredible detail. We are also symbolized as the Eagles wings attached to the Lion--the base of the antichrist kingdom--in Daniel 7:4. (Note: our symbol is the American Bald Eagle.) The eagle's wings are plucked off and the Lion is stood up on it's feet. This is a depiction of our independance from England and the fact that we will be cut off. England is the antichrist kingdom (Mother Babylon--where Daugher Babylon descended from). The antichrist kingdom MUST be a part of the reassembling of the Roman kingdom (the EU) Daniel 2:40. Prince Charles, or one of his sons are the best candidates for the antichrist today, but if Obama has made some kind of New World Order pact, he could very well be him too. But not as US President. He'd have to take on some other mantle, which is plausible after our nation is destroyed. These things require a lot of study. If you want to better understand you need to study Daniel & Revelation also Jeremiah and Isaiah.
3) For the umpteenth time: 2018 is not a deadline or a destination. It is a "by" date; not an "at" date. The world could end in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 or 2017 and still end "by" 2018. Get it?
4) God says No man knows the date or hour, but he goes on to give us clues of what will be going on right before he returns. He tells us to be careful to "Watch" for these signs because that's his whole reason for providing them. God considers it a curse to be unaware of what time you're living in (Matt 16:2). All of those signs are happening right now.
It's important to mention one very important event: the RAPTURE.
The Rapture is another term falling victim to translation (it actually means "Snatching" or "Catching Up"). This is an event that God has promised to end time believers as a hope to look forward to at the end. You see, God does not judge his people with those who reject him (Gen 18 and 19). He has promised to snatch every soul of his one day before the Great Tribulation (last 3.5 years of man ruling earth). This will happen unexpectedly, in the twinkling of an eye (1 cor 15:52). Basically, every Christian alive at that time will be instantaneously transformed into a spirit and will NEVER see death, a lot like Noah and his sons at the time of the flood. This event will be so dramatic and world-shattering that people will become hyper-religious again, which is why they will believe the antichrist is God--that and the fact that he will have god-like powers.
Research the scriptures regarding the Rapture and you'll have hope to "escape these things". The rapture really will require a new talkback, but you should research it. It could happen at any moment. -
Your real name...is it...Roland Emmerich? I mean...is this...is this all just 'prepping the market'?! DAMN YOU, YOU WILY BASTARD! I'd lose the bit about Prince Charles though. Him and his kids couldn't organise a cup of tea.
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I can't get enough of that title.
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Mar 10, 2010 11:22:13 AM CST
Asi, it's not that it's too soon or anything like that.
by colonelfatheart
I think 9/11, or any horrible event for that matter, deserves -- no, needs -- extensive examination through art and culture. It's the cheapness with which this ending handles it that sticks in my craw. I'm starting to read other critics' takes on it, and they say there's more "foreshadowing" than Massa's letting on here, but the generation conception is that the ending is a howler. It's bad writing, bad moviemaking, and in it's in bad taste. It's just basically reducing the event to "OMG 9/11." It's Shyamalan's THE VILLAGE, but it trades on the power and impact of a very real tragedy.
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what if i never got to find out what happens in the end of
loST? -
what if i never got to find out what happens in the end of
loST? -
They have cable in hell. Surround sound too.
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Thanks for the laughs again. I really should get back to work. Deuces.
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Good luck with the screenwriting fella ;)
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I wish someone could convince me that America is not on the perpetual downward slope to either 1) invasion and subjugation by a more relevant country with an itchy trigger finger and 2) Slow, agonizing death - of our currency, our manufacturing base, our government, and our ability to earn a dollar without having 90 cents ripped from our pocket 'for our own good'. And I believe this has been caused by human ignorance, hubris, ego, short-sightedness, and the generally exponentially increasing stupidity of the kinds of people who get into politics. Republican AND Democrat. I've said it before - give me a good reason to believe we aren't headed towards either bankruptcy or basically working just to maintain our government. And please dont' misconstrue my statement about 9/11, I believe we were already headed over a cliff at some point (it's inevitable), but that event basically pushed the pendulum really far into one direction politically, and now it can't do anything but wildly swing either way until it finally snaps.
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Shh. ; ) Actually, changed professions last year. Didn't really work out for me out in Hollyweird.
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I really hope you hate Michael Bay's PEARL HARBOR and find absolutly no fun in it whatsoever. Because otherwise you would look an hypocrite after all you said about "sensitivity to major disasters" stuff.You know what i think is the problem with most americans about the way they deal, or rather, deal so badly with? It's because you had not much of such disasters and tragedy in your short history. Yoru new world has been blessfully spared such tragedies as what happened in the old world like in WWI and WWII and before. You have no cultural background to fall back into, you never developed the attitude of "disaster happened, life goes one". You know, like the English did after that recent subway bombing. For you, it's all new and it still is. For the rest of the world, it's another tragedy. I tell you, if the Japanese had stoped and gone on self-absorved emo trips that you went with on the Tokyo firebombing and Hiroshima and Nagasaki's atomic bombings, the country would had ceased existing,a dn instead would be millions of mourning people with nothing else to do but their own emotional self-indulgences. Stop this already! It happened, nothing can make it go away. Life goes on. Enough already with the deification of 9/11!!
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Mar 10, 2010 4:19:39 PM CST
Seems Massa is not udnerstanding the major point of the ending
by asimovlives
I haven't seen the movier and i already understand the use of the 9/11 in the end of the movie. One doesn't need to be terribly bright to get it. The point the movie is making, i'm sure, is goignfor that notion of "the problems of a few people do not amount to a hill of beans" compared to the word at large. 9/11 serves to make one realsies that this self-absorved problms that the people have in the movie are pretty meaningless in the whole grand scheme of things. It's petty. For each of us, our own created problems mgith be major, but for the world at large, it's nothing. And then a tragedy happened that put into context how small, how minuscle, how fucking unimportant our little personal tragedies are. That's the fucking point. I haven't seen the movuie and i udnerstood what the filmamkrs want to say. Massa saw the fucking movie, and all he got was an over-emotional reaction because of all that "too soon" bullshit! Grow the fuck up!Everytime i think Massa will finally write a smart and intelligent review, we always fucks it up with some inane bulslhit born out of he just doesn't think things through! Suffice to say, this is the same guy who was upset with NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN because the movie was not formulaic enough! Give me a fucking break!
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144,000 baby. Yeah!
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....JettL93. Aaahaahaahahaaa I make me laugh.
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...review, or are just selectively processing what you want to get out of it. Massawyrm clearly stated that he doesn't have a problem with the use of 9/11 for whatever means. He just has a HUGE problem with HOW IT'S USED IN THIS FILM. Quite honestly, from what I've seen in commercials and the trailer, I completely agree with him. I would have been pissed the hell off if I paid to see that ending in the theater when I went in expecting a film that had nothing to do with 9/11.
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not sure what's so shocking about that ending. seems like the typical thing hollywood does with a real life disaster. its been almost 10yrs, so of course the event will start being used as a gimmick or a twist or whatever. some americans just have trouble handling it because it happened in their country. i think they're still getting over the fact that the world didn't stop just because they got hurt. just like it doesnt stop when other countries experience similar or worse situations. but yeah they totally shoulda showed the impacts, CGI 9/11 would be awesome yo!!!!
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All you muthafuckas need to seriously chill out. Go inside yourself and get in touch with your inner Samuel L. Jackson - Mace Windu variety, not Jules Winfield .
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Critics are becoming absolutely irelevant,anyway, so I don't know why people even pay attention. If you look at the reviews rolling in it's almost split 50/50; the ones who don't get what the filmakers were trying to convey call it cheap and exploitative. The ones that totally get it and see the deeper meaning in all of it, call it beautiful and poignant. And maybe they're all just a little bit right but as with most movies, I make my own mind up. But Coulter and Chris Cooper are both died in the wool New Yorkers and Cooper talked at length about the meaning of the film during the press on it last week. Do you really think people who lived through that shit and love the city they call their own would make a movie as a slap in the face to NYC? And I'll say again, anyone that doesn't realize a film called 'Remember Me' set in the summer of 2001 in NYC won't have something to do with 9/11 is not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. Throw in the actual time, place and year in black and white on the screen, not to mention huge cell phones, Bush blabbering on the TV about stem cell research and the Twin Towers looming in the background of the opening scene, then you've got a shitty ass observer that should never get mugged and be expected to ID the sonofabitch.
Trufax. -
is a bad movie anyway. To make the cause of death 9/11 is literally taking the piss.
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The 144,000 and the Rapture are two totally different groups: The 144K are strictly Jewish, virgin men. They are 12K from each of the 12 Tribes. Basically, Jews today have no idea which tribe they belong to--even though they are history's most diligent record keepers. This is not a coincidence, which is why only Jesus will be able to "seal" them. They are the pure Jewish men whom Jesus will use to preach the Gospel (which just means the "good news" about God dying for them to keep them from hell). They teach DURING the Great Tribulation. The rapture is for the "Church"--the bride of Christ, the body of believers who love Christ. They will be snatched BEFORE the Great Tribulation. The Church is "not appointed to wrath" 1 Thess 5:9. Remember, the Great Tribulation is God's wrath. He doesn't pour out his wrath on those who love him, but on those who reject him and ONLY so they can realize that rejection is vain and foolish.
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Just watch it a second time. For example, "Nothing could separate us, not even death," or the scene where Robert Pattinson reads "My Pet Goat."
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Tick tick tick tick....
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I just saw it today. I disagree. It's easy to see why Wrym thinks that the ending is exploitative. To be honest, it should have been handled much better. But what I took from it was this: I think the point that the director was trying to make is that every person that died in 9/11 had a story. And up until the moment that the attacks took place, they had no reason to believe that anything was going to keep those stories from continuing. Again, that's just me. Flame all you want.
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No flames from me...I still disagree about the exploitative part but I think you're right on some of what they were trying to do.
Newsweek wrote a really interesting take on it. Major Spoilers for anyone who cares.
www.newsweek.com/id/234827 -
http://broodingtotaldestruction. ytmnd.com (remove space)
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but not mine. - Patti Smith
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