Cool News
‘Proceed As Planned!!’ LOST 6.7!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
Is that William Atherton (“Ghostbusters,” “Die Hard”) lurking behind Ben at the end of the second clip, getting ready to give Dr. Linus some bad about his angry dad?
ABC says of tonight’s episode, titled “Dr. Linus”:
Ben deals with the consequences of an uncovered lie. Guest starring are Alan Dale as Charles Widmore, Tania Raymonde as Alex, Daniel Roebuck as Dr. Leslie Arzt, Jon Gries as Roger Linus, William Atherton as Principal Don Reynolds and Steve Boatright as officer. Written by Edward Kitsis & Adam Horowitz and directed by Mario Van Peebles.
Now that Sayid and Jin have connected, and John and Ben have connected, these little flashsidewayses seem now to be telling a larger story. So where is it going?
The cover of Entertainment Weekly this week carries the headline “The 10 Best TV Shows Right Now!” “Lost” is one of those 10 shows.
9 p.m. Tuesday. ABC.
Follow Herc on Twitter!!
Follow Evil Herc on Twitter!!
“The Venture Bros.,” $28.99 last week, is momentarily $15.49/Season!! (48% Off!!)
“Carnivale,” $31.49 last week, is momentarily $15.99/Season!! (60% Off!!)
Follow Evil Herc on Twitter!!
-
+ Expand All
-
I love this show...fuck the haters!!!
-
Well that's what I heard!
-
Wow, am I actually first? Probably not
-
Anyone agree?
-
Cool!
-
From the look of the trailer it seems like Richard is gunning for Ben because he knows Ben had more than a little part in Jacobs demise. Poor Ben looks like he is being forced to dig his own grave or dig up someone else’s grave and shackle himself to a body or big rock so he’ll be easy eating for smokie while nobody wants to stick up for him and help him out. (Reminds me of the goat in the T-Rex enclosure in Jurassic Park) Can’t wait! More smokie (maybe) definitely more Jack and Hurley, Richard and he old beached Black Rock in dark territory! Apart from the brief horizon shot at the end of the last season I don’t think we’ve seen that ship in quite a while. Was it that Sawyer strangling old Sawyer ages ago in season 3?
-
Mar 09, 2010 3:20:20 AM CST
I haven't been arguing this vehemently since the 2008 election.
by billypilgrimisunstuck
Man. I love this frakkin' show. LOST to me is what football means to most men. I don't have football season, I have LOST season.
And yes, since it moved to Tuesday, I feel like the wait is much shorter. Not sure why. -
whaaaaaaat?
-
is there are too many cast members!
Need a cull. -
Mar 09, 2010 3:53:16 AM CST
Van Peebes? Will there be a Sweet Sweetback reference?
by kateobviouslydidntgoblack
I sure hope so.
-
Yes, it does seem like a shorter wait. I have to wait til Wednesday morning to see it but it still feels quicker than in the past.
-
Though not sure about this one, as he has been nothing but a spectator in this one. If he dies in this one, will be more like putting him out of his misery.
-
You can't have Lost without Ben, you just can't.
-
of the shows finale right now.How weirds that!
Ive heard set reports regarding what they are filming and I wont spoil here but it sounds very interesting indeed. In 2 weeks time plenty of people will know the full story which is sad because Ive enjoyed these talkbacks but will have to avoid them like the plague cos we all know some shithead (probably our own pet trolls) will blow it for us out of spite and theres no point calling to get people banned because they will get (or already have ) another account! gerr
-
Thanks credit spoilers
-
if Jughead was responsible for its destruction during the 'incident', wouldn't a young Widmore have been there?
-
Mar 09, 2010 5:44:08 AM CST
Perhaps the most amazing feat from the Lost writers this season
by itchy
have been making me actually feel bad for Ben. They took this absolutely brutal, heartless, deceptive leader of men, and exposed him as a scared, desperate, mislead pawn whose unresolved Daddy issues have rendered him a scared little boy in a man's body. That's actually pretty well done.
-
**WHAM!! Bonnie Bedelia breaks Atherton' nose.**
Did ya get that??
Back on topic, this looks okay. But if these flashsidewayses (fucking awful sobriquet, by the way) don't go anywhere then fuck the LOST writers - for wasting half their last season's viewing time on an alternate reality for no good reason. I don't give a damn what could have been - the characters are now less interesting than the story of the Island, Jacob, Esau/MIB, and all that mythology. We know that Jack will always fuck up and cry about it, that Sawyer will always be untrustworthy but eventually do the right thing (in his own interest of course), that Kate will cocktease both Jack and Sawyer untill the end of time, let alone the series, and that Hurley will always be cool. All this is a given. Now get with the mythology story already!! -
Unlike last weeks Smokie kills everything tha we introduced so far this season thus rendering the first third of the season pointless.
-
Last week Sayid killed Dogen and Lennon. How does that make the first third of the season pointless, Jimbo? Not a very perceptive comment you made was it. I think you should apologise to the rest of the talkback for being retarded. But it's okay. We forgive you. As long as you're sorry.
-
This flashsidewayses bollocks is going nowhere. It's being used to underscore or foreshadow the motivations of the characters - so if we have an Off-Island episode where Sayid mopes and whines over the woman he always wanted but pushed away because he felt he didn't deserve her, we just KNOW that On-Island, Sayid's love for Nadya will become an integral part of his motivations for that episode. Oh look, it did. From that 2nd sneak peek, I guess we're in for an episode of On-Island Ben putting across how aggrieved he is and how pissed off at losing his position he is. Personally, I'd love to see him have a major role in the re-imprisoning or destruction of Smokey/Esau/MIB (give him a fucking name already, writers!!) but LOST seems to want to wrongfoot us right to the end, so I think Ben's gonna be sidelined for most of this season. Shame, really - Ben needs some vengeance, dammit! - but if you were going to kill off a major character, fucking kill JACK! That weepy bitch has fucked up spectacularly for the past three seasons, and now he's wrecked the invisible lighthouse, he's done fucked up again. Of course, we all KNOW that finale will end with Jack getting closure over his daddy issues (fucking psychobabble bullshit again), but y'know, I'd just love to see Sawyer and Hurley get off the island alive with Jacob's help, and to hell with the rest of 'em.
MORE MYTHOLOGY, DAMMIT!!! -
Lighthouse? What lighthouse? I ain't never seen no lighthouse. Yeah Hurley. Stop lying to us. Jack didn't smash the mirrors in the lighthouse. There is no lighthouse. Oh, so it's an INVISIBLE lighthouse. Hmmm. Sure.
-
Nope, YOU'RE wrong. Those characters were just two-dimensional cyphers set up to spout huge chunks of clunky exposition, then get killed to make way for more characters with more clunky exposition. We don't know them, have no emotional connection to them, and so they're purely there to provide us with enough info to get us to the next bit of plot that won't make sense.
I mean, the week before last - the fucking lighthouse, one of the most recognisable and visible things you'd see on an island - wasn't found before THEN?? And when Jack asks why they hadn't seen it before, Hurley gets that babbling bullshit line "Maybe we weren't looking for it"?? NO, writers, MAYBE you hadn't fucking worked out how all this shit was going to play out, so in that annoyingly amateur way they seem to keep using this season, they just throw in something that could NOT have been missed in the last five seasons, then give Hurley some vaguely mystical dialogue to explain away their error!
Look, I love LOST, I really do. I even stuck this show out through Season 2 and 3 - when the slumps REALLY kept coming. I even watched that fucking pointless Jack's tattoo Bai Ling episode. But this season seems to be written by fucking amateurs - and all these revelations would have had more emotional heft had they had at least another 10-15 eps to spread it out over. It's too much, too fast, the pacing's all over the place and the dialogue is fucking dire. It's like ABC have let a bunch of new screenwriting interns write this season to a plot that's seemingly written by a Random Plot Generator. It's shit!!
A lot of us have stuck with LOST until this much-vaunted last season. We deserve better than this tepid, exposition-heavy bullshit they're serving us. -
Mar 09, 2010 6:52:41 AM CST
rosasaks - I was replying to the jimbojones123 comment earlier!!
by spud mcspud
I totally agree with your Jack Hurley comment. It's all ridiculous!
-
Dogen was so stereptypical he should have been played by Al Leong, and as for Lennon - a stone cold badass in the first couple of eps, reduced to being pushed around by an unarmed Kate in last week's episode. What a drippy bitch. Weak sauce, writers.
-
I went back and rewatched Sundown last night for 2 things. First the supposed people in smokie when Kate was in the pit with Claire. I can neither confirm nor deny because I saw something, just not sure it was people.
The 2nd, and I think the most important, was what Dogan called Locke. If I remember correctly, he told Sayid "This man is evil incarnate." In that conversation he kept using he and calling Flocke a man. So I googled Man as evil incarnate and came up with yet another mythological figure....this time from Hindu mythology.
Ravana
Look it up and see if this seem Flockish to you. -
Yep, that's what I was afraid of. And the week after, how the ocean around the island is made up of all Jack's tears.
-
Obviously the temple was going to be a location at some point. It had been established near the end of season three as a safe place to go when Naomi showed up working for Widmore ahead of Keamy and his men. Hopefully it will serve some bigger purpose in the mythology later. But as a location for various stuff to happen I don't have a problem. Dogen and Lennon? Well look, somebody needed to be in charge of the Others at the temple. It would be ridiculous if Cindy had been in charge. Richard was tied up at the beach. They could have just put Richard in charge of the temple, that would have made sense. But I think you're way overstating the importance of Dogen and Lennon. They're just good actors so they did more to make you think those characters were important than was strictly necessary. Someone else said last week those scenes could have happened anywhere on the island, and I suppose that's true. Except the temple was a pretty cool set, I thought. And is now introduced for whatever they really want to use it for later. Can't remember who was saying this, but they said why not have an existing character fill the role of Lennon and Dogen. Well, Christian might have worked, except not in the context of whatever else is planned for him. They could have had Claire in charge I guess, but it didn't fit with the plots they wanted to do. We've seen that the temple folks don't know as much about the island as might be supposed. Sayid has disposed of them after they tried to dispose of him. The whole thing establishes Sayid and Claire's predicament, and also that Jacob is behind the scenes and knows much more than the others, and is more interested in saving Hurley and Jack from Smokey than any of the others. But I guess all that is LOST on you McSpud. Criticise LOST all you like, I do, even though I love it, but at least try and fucking make sense. You just sound like a dickhead making dumb ass comments.
-
I don't know who I was replying to either. Erm. Ha ha. All good bro. Just warming up with a bit of pointless abuse. hee hee.
-
Had to take a trip into Manhattan for two days. Won't get to watch until tomorrow night. It's funny to think it might actually be the first I couldn't be home to watch lost live. Gonna be a tough night. I know some of you will miss my insight terribly (right?) but try to hang in there. I hope everyone enjoys the episode...while I'm not. The worst part is I hate knowing the rest of the world will know something that I don't know....bullshit. Oh well. Everyone enjoy lost day, and know how jealous I am. I'll be back tomorrow night to join the discussion. Cheers you lucky bastards!
-
This argument is over the minute either of us compares each other's argument to Nazism, or if one of us tells the other to go eat a bag of dicks :D
-
One of the earliest, most cast-iron rules of scriptwriting is that if you are going to have the end of a movie depend on a character using a screwdriver, you'd damn well better make sure we see them have that screwdriver with them from the outset, or pick it up along the way. What they're writing at LOST goes way beyond that - we're expected to think that after 104+ days of exploring the island from one end to the other (INCLUDING from the POV of the other island), they didn't see a fucking LIGHTHOUSE - a building DESGINED to be as visible as possible? Ditto the cliff temple, and the main temple that's suddenly filled with Other Other others?? Why the hell don't Ben and Richard seemingly know these guys? Why was there no previous clues that any of this stuff already there??
Honestly, at this rate they could have a battleship appear beached up next to the Black Rock and I wouldn't be surprised. All my carefully built suspension of disbelief is being eroded by this amateurish plotting and frankly embarrassing standard of writing... -
Now eat a bag of dicks! Nazi dicks!! :D
-
Clearly knows what's going on. Note that having found here way in and out of the temple in the middle of all this, when nobody else has a clue what is going on, she asks Miles where are Shepherd and Reyes, then pauses, and Ford, and then a moment later asks what about Jarrah, and tries to stop Ben going after him. She knows the character groupings even as they are unfolding. How? Also note the back story we got about Dogen. Jacob made a deal - his help in exchange for healing his son. Well, did Jacob heal Ilyana's wounds when he visited, asking her to help, AGAIN? I wonder if the reason Ilyana knows about the temple is she made a deal with Jacob like Dogen did, once before, and lived to tell the tale, and is now the person Jacob wants to help him against Smokey. So whatever knowledge Dogen represents, hasn't been killed off. Ilyana is more important than him. Plus Dogen has been seen in the flashsideways and got dowsed in that magic water, so if they want to do something else with him, they still can. Now Dogen was introduced a bit late, but Ilyana wasn't. Remember, she is the one who on Jacob's bequest went and captured Sayid and brought him back to the island on Ajira (after Jacob had touched him). And since she seems to know what's going on, and Jacob knew as well to get Hurley and Jack out of there, can we presume that Ilyana and Jacob knew that Sayid was going to kill Dogen? The people who didn't time flash off Ajira still have their story to be told, and it was established last year. Ilyana seems to have told Sun and Frank and possibly Ben a bit more about what is going on now, and didn't Christian talk to Frank and Sun last year? It's a mistake to think just because Sayid killed Dogen the temple stuff didn't go anywhere. Why did Dogen want to kill Sayid, and why did Ilyana bring him back to the island?
-
You just didn't realise it was the screwdriver. You were distracted by the guy with the hammer up the telegraph pole. Or something. Raymond Chandler used to talk about this. Misdirection. Get people asking the wrong question. Expecting the wrong question to be answered so that when a character finally asks the right question, the audience goes, oh, shit, yeah, it was there all along, I just didn't see it.
-
I just get the feeling it's one of those things they'll never get round to explaining. Is it demonic possession? A true sickness? Some hybrid of the two, a la REC? I think Ilyana brought Sayid back because Jacob thought he could turn him to his cause - and Dogen wanted to kill Sayid, because whatever brought Sayid back from the dead (dollars to doughnuts we're meant to think it's MIB, but it could still end up being Jacob, playing a long game) made him evil (or seem to be), which is what Dogen and Lennon were there to stop in the first place.
But don't we have enough other mysteries to explain away? Like WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLTTT????
It'd be depressingly predictable if Walt became the next Jacob and Aaron became the next MIB, though... -
...It just feels like they never had the endgame planned, and all this is being made up on the hoof. Despite what Darlton says. Now THAT'S misdirection - making everyone think you had a plan when you hadn't...
-
Wasn't the first mention of the temple Ben telling Richard to go there when they got news that Widmore was coming to the island? I wonder if we'll get more information about the temple from Widmore. Also not the reversal. Jacob tells Hurley that somebody is coming to the island, and this is part of him getting Jack and Hurley the hell away from the temple. In contrast to Ben thinking the temple will be a safe place to go when Widmore comes to the island.
-
Also to be explained in addition to the whole infected business is why Dogen was able to keep Smokey out of the temple - Lennon said he's the only one keeping him out. The first time we actually saw the outer temple wall was French team during the flash sideways, which we took to be tied up with the sickness and the smoke monster. So there is this question of why Smokey was kept out of the temple, and when did that happen? When exactly was he trapped in the Cabin, etc, why does he want to get back to the temple when supposedly he's interested in killing Jacob and going home. Why does he care about the temple? That scene with Ben and Alex and Locke last year happened near the temple too, didn't it, and that was building towards Smokey having Ben stab Jacob. There does seem to be more design to this than is immediately apparent, it's just hard to see because of the glacial pace at which they tell the story - owing to having so many characters and this fractured, mosaic approach to telling a "serialised" story.
-
You did make that shit worthwhile. Just like this talkback. Could you start a list of all the things you've done since you started coming on here? You know like how many fans you've swayed? How many times the dumb-fuck writers that don't have a fucking clue what they're doing, have read your stuff and cried like the stupid little bitches they are because they realize they've written the worst show in the history of time. It fucking sucks. Just compile a list for me and I will add it to my blog-lostboytexass is my God.edu. Please? I'll be your best friend. Oh yeah and spud mcspud, since you fall into lostboys camp in obviously being a waaaaaaaay better writer than any of the window lickers working on LOST could you tell me how you would have written it better? You know cuz it's so easy I'm sure you could spell it pretty quickly in a post.
-
I know right? This is the worst season EVER! And I can say that because a) It's not over and b) It's so different than the fist five seasons. How does everyone not see this? It's like a totally different show. Season 1-5=brilliant. Season 6(that just started)=steaming pile of dog shit. And I don't question your true love of LOST because you said you liked the first 5 seasons. Just like I don't question mcspuds love cuz He EVEN watched the tattoo episode.OMG! He must really love this show.
-
Please, please, please will you write the fan-fiction? You have such a compelling voice and deep insight.
-
Sheesh, why are you always humping lostboy's leg with those sad puppy eyes? It's embarrassing.
-
Oh and I saw you went back to calling ToughGuyRizzo, ToughGayRizzo. GENIUS! You fucking nailed him...Oh, no! While I was typing that I thought about gay people and it made me throw-up cuz they're so gross. Now I have to clean my keyboard.
-
..are Gold, and I have high hopes for tonight. But I am not 100% behind these flash sideways, it feels like I am watching a Lost spinoff or something. But since Ben was on the island when the bomb went off (or was he?) I am curious how this will play out with his side story.
-
Simple. I'd do a J Michael Straszcynski and make damn sure I knew what the plot was from start to end, every season, every arc. And if something happened that wasn't in my plan - such as JMS having to use Sheridan to complete the arc he'd planned for Sinclair - I'd do it with the panache and logic that JMS did, not just drop plot strands because I don't know what to do with them - such as Eko, Walt, Take-A-Shit Guy and Girl, Walt's powers, Vincent the dog, Clancy Brown, etc etc. I also wouldn't expect my audience to believe that after 104+ days on an island, and trying to map out and explore pretty much every damn inch of it, the survivors wouldn't fail to see a gigantic lighthouse built on one of the highest points. I also wouldn't insult their intelligence by having Hurley explain WHY they couldn't see that lighthouse for the past five seasons with "Maybe we weren't looking for it, dude".
The standard of writing and plotting has demonstrably dropped. Maybe you don't care about this loss of quality - in which case, hey, George Lucas has a new STAR WARS TV series you're gonna rilly rilly, like, LOVE - and Spielberg can't wait to see you in the cinema when his INDY 5 shows up.
Meanwhile, those of us lamenting the loss of quality in LOST can carry on bitching. See ya. -
It's fun. If he gonna come on here and spout off about how much LOST sucks and how awful gay people are, I have every right to give him a hard time.
-
dude, your acting like an abused little spaniel who just wants his owner to love him.
-
Oh, and it's just a TV show. It's okay for other people to not have the same opinion as you. Now go wipe that froth from round your mouth and take your ritalin, fer Chrissakes. IT'S JUST A TV SHOW!!
-
First of all, the lighthouse doesn't seem to have been THAT important. It's a McGuffin. It's Jacob's (or Smokey's) crystal ball. Second, they did not spend 104 days exploring the island end to end. they spent very little time exploring. They were LOOKING for the radio tower, which should have been as easy to find as a lighthouse, and it still took months to locate. Third, there is already a precedent for structures that appear and disappear in the cabin. And so, I'm totally fine with the lighthouse. As for there always having been an endgame, this looks exactly like the endgame I anticipated in season one. The demigod/possession thing is a twist to it, but otherwise, they've been foreshadowing Team Locke from the beginning.
-
Who was in the cabin? The person they showed, where everyone was poring over screen shots saying it was Jack or Locke. He said "Help me". If it was the MIB it didn't look like the guy we saw on the beach and why would he shapeshift there?
-
First off, I've never watched Babylon 5, so I won't speak to that, but JMS fucked up Rising Stars so bad, it started as one off the top 3 books in the country and fizzled out at the end to a point that a lot of retailers didn't even order it. As far as having every moment planned out in advance, watch a movie. That is how they are made(most of the time). TV is different. You are supposed to leave thing a little nebulous in case it a)gets cancelled-and you need to wrap it up or b) gets popular and you need to expand the universe. As far a lamenting to loss of quality most fans are loving this season and loved all of the last one.
-
fucking love it, and seems like its coming around very quickly.
Sadly only another 10 eps to go. -
How do you know these haven't been addressed? Some have speculated that Sayid took on Eko's story last season. Walt -- well, I haven't written him off yet. Nikki and Paulo -- what more do you want? I'm pretty sure they fulfilled their purpose, they just did it sooner than planned. Vincent -- uh, he's a fucking dog. What do you want from him? Really, I know there are theories that this is all his doggie dream, but what on the show makes you think there's more to him than being a dog?
-
How am I foaming at the mouth? I give lostboy shit cuz he's terribly unoriginal, but other than that I haven't gotten riled at all? I answered your question politely and with a full understanding that it's just a TV show. I could say the same back to you. Don't get so upset that the writing fell off cuz it's just a TV show.
-
Have you ever owned a dog? That is the worst analogy I've heard in a while.
-
The Kate ep was average in my opinion, the rest has been either great or brilliant.
With each week, I can feel that the stakes are going up. Quite rightly the focus is on the key characters(the Losties) and the main players in Jacob and Smokey.
Most of the actors have stepped up, in particular Terry O'Quinn, who must be loving this role. -
They addressed the issue of the lighthouse not being previously discovered IMMEDIATELY upon seeing the fucking thing. I can't believe this is an issue with anybody. Crikey!
-
It's getting down to the wire ... Sad to say I and I'm sure other careful viewers will leave the Lost TBs till after the finale. Starting pretty soon too. Ah well.
-
Season 1 is not great tv, but seasons 2-4 and the last ep of 5 was great, as a story arc I agree that it was very well done.
Per my other comments I think Lost in this season is going in exactly the right direction, at the right pace, just like B5.
-
I don't mind trolls like Dioxholster, making comments about his obsession with Stargate, even AsimovLives's obsession with his hate of JJ Abrams, but there is one troll in these tb's who has on a few occasions posted spoilers, and is clearly very immature. If there was any justice with ban hammer he would no longer be posting here
-
Normally I'm a spoiler hound, and LOVE getting spoiled, but LOST is one series I don't want to know ANYTHING for.
-
I said last week that Sundown was top 5 all time, but I now realize that was a bit of afterglow. Having said that I still think it stands as the most rewarding episode of all time. Not for any answers they gave although they gave some big ones. More for the journey that all these characters have taken. If you've stuck with it, things like, Sayid stabbing Locke and their resulting conversation, every second Keamy was on screen, the destruction of the temple, and all the ALT stuff was the very definition of engaging TV. There have definitely been episodes where they ended and I said meh and waited for next week, but this whole season I have gotten to the credits and wished it was Tuesday immediately.
-
That line made me wince also. At this late stage any structures on the island really should have been seen or at least mentioned already and that sad dialogue to explain it away just didn’t cut it. It is lazy “fuck the fans” writing
I still think that the writers did have an ending that will tie into the first ever 6 or so episodes in series 1 and everything else set between because of the success of the show and its non-cancellation was mythological embellishments.
Now I have enjoyed the last 6 years and I am a HUGE fan of the show but these so-called trolls are making more and more valid criticisms as this season progresses.
We will probably find out how the show was originally intended to end if it was cancelled earlier when this show bible is published later this year. My guess is this lighthouse was a major element of what could have been a one series mystery show. And Lindelof and Cuse probably remembered this during the break between series 5 and 6 while they were wracking there brains trying to think of a plausible ending arc and thought “oh shit, remember that lighthouse idea?”
“Oh yeah the idea we had involving the nature of the island way back in season 1” Cuse (panicked)“How the hell could we introduce it now? Wouldn’t someone have seen it at this stage? it IS a lighthouse for Christ sake! There kinda built to be very visible ”
Lindelof (thinking) “I know! We could address that very question head on during the episode to pre-empt any criticism, like have a character say something... I dunno....about not knowing about it or say they weren’t looking for it or something.”
Cuse“ jeez .. you think they’ll buy that?”
Lindelof “ Who cares, anyone who sees through it we will call nit pickers with no lives, fuckem”
-
This thing about the rules and not being able to kill certain people. Could that be to do with the flash sideways? The fate of a character in one has consequences for his doppelganger in the other? So those who know better don't break the rules where certain people are concerned. It would be interesting if "the others" were the other selves of people who Jacob brought to the island in exchange for favours. But in a sense MIB is offering the reverse deal. Jacob tempts them to come to the island. MIB tempts them to leave. I do wonder if Ben will die in the flash sideways tonight, and that is used as a device to twist a little with where this is going. The separateness of the two worlds, and the absence of any magical elements from one (in an echo of early season one) can't continue much longer, surely. That promo about Ben's "demise" and a couple of calculated remarks from Lindelof would suggest that we'll find out what's up with the flash sideways and how they connect to the island when a character dies. Ben would be a good choice, especially as we're not very invested in him as an off island figure, but expect compelling stuff from him. This business with the candidates is interesting - a satisfying reveal with just enough explanatory power. But it probably also dovetails nicely with the writers experience. What do we do with these characters, how do we fit them into the island mythology. They have certain key story elements they're planning, and some flexibility who they utilize in which role. So the writers will have been scrutinizing the candidates as much as Jacob or MIB. Eko still feels like a waste though. A lot went into his back story and it was more compelling than most. It's an interesting idea that Sayid was chosen as the candidate to take over Eko's purpose. The image of Sayid plunging a knife into Locke, after facing his inner turmoil about the bad things he has done, may lend weight to that. If Eko had been one of the O6 that would have helped story elements of season two seem a lot less redundant than they do now. I love LOST, but somewhere in there there's a great rewrite of a truly breathtaking work of fiction, with tremendous architectural ambition. And it's frustrating that LOST isn't quite that show. Pity Lindelof can't use what we've been watching as a first draft, and go and remake it for HBO - five seasons of thirteen episodes would do it nicely. Impressive as it is, there's something better struggling to get out. Juggling so many characters is difficult, and too many arcs feel out of focus or fell into early redundancy. The overall mosaic effect is still great, but the extent to which it all hangs together as a serial is a bit of an illusion.
-
Because it's Jacob's, and Jacob can appear to those we wants to appear to, he endowed Hurley and Jack with the ability to see it. Or perhaps it can only be visible from up close and not far away. Therefore, you won't see it unless you know where it's going to be. That's why it's never be on any of the maps & diagrams. It's obviously not meant to serve as a real lighthouse, as it's Jacob's magical lighthouse. If you can buy into a smoke monster, an electromagnetic, timetraveling island that heals people, is it so hard to believe in a magical lighthouse??
-
Because it's Jacob's, and Jacob can appear to those we wants to appear to, he endowed Hurley and Jack with the ability to see it. Or perhaps it can only be visible from up close and not far away. Therefore, you won't see it unless you know where it's going to be. That's why it's never be on any of the maps & diagrams. It's obviously not meant to serve as a real lighthouse, as it's Jacob's magical lighthouse. If you can buy into a smoke monster, an electromagnetic, timetraveling island that heals people, is it so hard to believe in a magical lighthouse??
-
plus the cabin.
If it was a Dharma station I could get the gripes -
There's nothing "lazy" or "Fuck the fans" about it. They wanted to have a fucking lighthouse so they put one there. They needed to explain why it hadn't been seen before and the answer they give is basically "it's magic". Which might be lame EXCEPT IT'S A SHOW ABOUT A MAGICAL ISLAND.
-
When he was a 20th century businessman. I'm trying to give this show as much slack as I can but stuff like that isn't helping.
-
"Ah yes a fucking teleporting cabin in the woods. Sweet. Wha???? A fucking invisible LIGHTHOUSE??? "MOTHERFUCKER!!!"
-
I suppose characters like Richard and Abbadon may have originally been introduced looking for somebody to fulfil elements intended for Eko. Miles talking to the dead may be part of that too. Remember Eko going to see that psychic in Australia, with the dead girl and the voices, and Libby seeming to be snooping in the background at the airport as if connected possibly to some of the off island groups? That could be the roots of some of the freighter elements right there, and they had to retool with different characters. This ghost talking bit is yet to be explained, so Miles might in fact have one element of Eko's story lines there. But Sayid does seem to be the one who has been integrated into the Ben and Locke storylines in the way we might have expected for Eko. Which makes me wonder if Eko hadn't have been killed off, maybe Sayid might have been killed off some time in season four or five. But then, Sun is still around, and when was the last time she had anything to do, so maybe not. What was Christian talking about when he told her she had a long journey ahead of her? And why did Richard say he saw them all die? Those two plot points were left dangling last year. It seems likely we need characters like Ilyana and Eloise to explain them. I agree with the comments there are so many mystery characters who know stuff and come and go without really telling anybody about it. It does get a bit comical, or irritating, depending on what mood you're in. Some of these could have been conflated. Desmond is a strange one. The saving grace of the season two arc having any relevance to anything - except the rather curious introduction of Ben, who might as well have been introduced along with Juliet in season three, except he happened to get cast as that throw away character and was brilliant, despite the leader of the others getting caught in the jungle, on purpose, making no sense whatsoever, quite apart from that nonsense about spinal surgery - and yet bizarrely, Desmond isn't really in season two at all, apart from the first and last episodes. The tailsection stuff and the Walt cliffhanger and Michael is just stupid in hindsight. Yet so much time got spent on it. Desmond, Radzinski, Clancy Brown, is just tantalisingly poorly addressed despite being so much more interesting. Killing off Eko and Daniel and using Desmond so sparingly is frustrating, as is the general apathy about doing anything much with Ben and Widmore. With the flashsideways, it would be better if there was one episode from a past season they could point to and say, a ha, fooled you, this was a flash sideways all along and you never noticed. Likewise this endless introducing of new characters - MIB and Jacob presumably have to tie into Aaron and now David as grandchildren of Christian - with Christian and the black and white stones being there from the early days when the black smoke was just dinosaur noises in the jungle. Otherwise it's just handwaving big chunks of plot into existence when they should have been there early. Even still, it seems like more of this Jacob stuff ought to have been alluded to earlier. Going back to Eko and that bible and the spliced tapes, i wonder if that was leading to Jacob stuff. But then they liked Michael Emerson and AAA wanted to go and they had to retool, and it took until the cabin stuff to get... oh i don't know.
-
They never explored the island. This has been a point of frustration by some of us fans for years. They never set out and carefully explored the island - certainly Jack and Hurley never did, and I don't believe any of the other 815ers did except possibly Locke but he wasn't big on sharing.
The old joke about Lost is there could be a Carnival cruise ship on the other side but they'd never know because they spent most of their time not even curious what was on the rest of the island.
So while that frustrated me as a fan, I can believe they didn't see the Lighthouse before, especially that Jack didn't. -
I want to read your post but the absence of paragraph breaks makes it daunting.
-
maybe somebody brought the lighthouse through time last season?
-
Very often my three year old will ask me for something, juice, a snack, a specific TV show to be on right then. And I answer, I'm sorry we don't have that right now. And she will get really angry, and keep repeating in a louder and louder voice, I WANT JUICE! But, she is not objecting to the fact that we don't have the juice or whatever, she feels like I haven't answered her question. Now, sometimes, I will simply say we don't have it, other times I will go on to explain either why we don't have it or when we will get it again. I still feel like with 10 GD episodes to go they've got just a little bit of time to expand on their answers. And if they don't, don't get mad, 'cause they didn't answer your question, they did. You just didn't like it.
-
Do you guys forget when the losties didn't realize there was an entire other fucking ISLAND?
Speaking of which. WTF Happened to the other island? -
Yeah it doesn't really bother me having a structure appear they haven't seen for three reasons:
1. Idol is right. They barely explored the damn island. And it's big.
2. Magic crap appears and disappears and is only visible to certain people at certain times ALL OVER THE PLACE in this show. Just the way it operates. Deal with it.
3. At least they blatantly foreshadowed a few things. Putting the statue foot in Season 2. Referencing the Temple off and on since Season 3. If they had done this for every single structure or new location that probably would have gotten annoying. Since they did it for a few, I have no problem accepting that there are more unseen locations.
Besides, what the heck does it matter if they're "manipulating the audience" or "making up bits as they go"? What matters is whether it's entertaining and rewarding, and perhaps for some it hasn't been, but for many (myself included) the answer so far is a resounding yes -- and I hope the Season closes even stronger. On LOST they tend to build incredibly each Season to an epic climax, so I have no reason to not assume it'll happen here. If it doesn't, I'll bitch then. But I've been given no reason to bitch now. -
Ajira 316 landed on that Island. I believe they left some survivors of that crash still there, right? Unless Illana and her boys purged them all...
-
At one point in the show lindelhawarf said that everything that had happened in the show was going to be scientifically explainable. Now its just a bunch of mystical magical crap! (Yes, I'm a fan)
-
Rather, the tail section and the Walt and Michael story lines aren't stupid, it's just with hindsight having them form so big a part of the season two narrative architecture is a great shame given how the cookie crumbled. A lot of the season arcs don't really add up to the sum of their parts. Great episodes addressing characters, mythology whatever, but in terms of forward progression of the grand plot, rather than a accretion of interesting details - Season One - they spent about ten episodes building a raft and staring at a metal door in the jungle floor just because it wasn't time for the season finale yet. Season Two - the whole tail section and Michael / Walt fiasco. Nothing wrong with doing those stories, just having them as an integral part of the structure of the season is a major flaw now. Not their fault, but still. Season three - okay seriously, waiting for that freighter to arrive was a total drag. It was ludicrous how strung out that was. Great run of episodes in the second stretch, all the same, but god that first clutch of six served little purpose, and the good run didn't really string together compellingly at all, they were more like great stand alones loosely threaded together. Season Four - again this is the major problem sometimes with LOST. Have a lot happen in the first episode, and a lot happen in the last episode, make plenty of great episodes in between, focusing on characters, weird structural devices, mythology etc. but good god, nothing happens in terms of real forward progress of the big picture - eg The freighter is coming. Lets spend the whole season rearranging people through the jungle as they have very interesting flashbacks. Cut to the season finale. The freighter is coming. Oh, is it? I thought it got here last season! Utterly ridiculous. And the freighter itself wasn't even important. Using it as the island story arc for the season was a mess, and the Michael stuff didn't make a lick of sense either. The freighter is salvaged by the Daniel and Desmond stuff from seasons three and four. Which doesn't actually have anything to do with the freighter itself being interesting, except in a notional sense. And here's the other big problem with that whole O6 storyline... Season Five - quite like the time flashes. But what happened when the island moved? We still haven't got an answer on what happened in the season four finale. Meanwhile, season five is quite concerned with getting the O6 back to the island. We found out they left the island in the season three finale. And it turns out them being off the island isn't that interesting. Despite the fact from the end of season three to the middle of season five this show is about we've got to go back to the island, because oh look we've left the island,oh, but how did we leave the island, oh look, here's how we left the island, even though you already know we left the island, and look, here we are, we've left the island, and this is what we did when we left the island, and do you know what, we were right two seasons ago, we need to go back to the island, oh, look, we're back on the island, we're back on the island, but how did we get back to the island, here, this is how we got back to the island, and hey, we're back on the island, but it's 1977, oh, look, three years later, it's the final season, and we got back to the island. See, when I said in the season three finale, that we needed to go back to the island, it occurs to me now that we might as well have never left the island, because apart from shouting GOTCHA at the top of our lungs about that flash forward business, it served an astonishing lack of any credible purpose, and we could just as easily cut straight to season six, except then we wouldn't have had loads of really cool flashbacks and flashsideways and time flashes and flashforwards, as we walked around in the jungle not talking to each other about why we were so incredibly confused whether our motivation was we really need to leave the island or we really need to get back to the island when actually the mystery was quite simply we really need to get to season four so we can go back to season five then go forwards to season six and go sideways to season seven and if we just keep walking round in circles in the jungle not talking except when some random guy turns up to confuse everybody, I reckon that should fill up the next three years quite nicely. Ah, now it's the last few episodes, lets ignore all that business about leaving the island and going back to the island and going forward to the island and going sideways off the island and instead walk round in the jungle confusing each other about what we might have done back in season one if we'd had the sense never to think of season two and saved our selves the hassle of leaving the island and going back to the island and going forward to the island and going sideways to the island and instead of all that just walk round in circles in the jungle like the good old days in season one and look we've finished walking round in the jungle talking to each other and not talking to each other and confusing each other and we left the island and then we didn't leave the island and we've arrived right back where we started and it's season one and look look look look didn't we tell you we had this all figured out right from day one i told you so i told you so i told you so and you thought we were just walking round in circles in the jungle and leaving the island and going back to the island and going forward to the island and going sideways to the island but we weren't going round in circles in the jungle at all we had it all planned out all along because look we're right back where we started in season one and I told you so and we're all geniuses and you're not. LOST.
-
towards the end. Des eps usually tie things up nicely. But I'm pretty sure the finale isn't going to be a specific character episode. They better make it one hell of an episode.
-
ok .. you keep harping and harping and harping about the fucking lighthouse .. lighthouses are designed to be the most visible thing FROM THE WATER!! .. in the show it is recessed and beyond a forest and lower line of sight so from a high vantage point INLAND you wont see if but you would FROM SEA .. i dont know if mommy never told you this but lighthouses were originally intended to keep SHIPS from crashing into LAND not for people on LAND to see from far away and be amazed how pretty they are .. way to take ONE insiginicat detail and make it your soapbox for an entire opinion
-
Maybe someone brought it through time? What the fuck? It's jut a building, abs not a terribly large one at that. You weren't complaining when we heard about and then saw The Tempest for the first time 2 seasons ago. It's a big island. Did you honestly think we had seen everything the island has on it at this point? They were actively looking for the radio tower from day one and didn't find it until rousseau led them there. What's sooo egregious about introducing a new building, where they spent all of 10 minutes. I'm not entirely 100% satisfied with the season so far, but that is just a bullshit complaint. You're just trying to find things to hate. If you honestly thought we had seen every structure on the island, and are mad that they found a new one you need to get your head on straight. Introducing a building isn't exactly something even worth complaining about it, whether you liked it or not. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe there are things we still haven't seen yet. They never walked around the edge of the entirety of the island, and they never sailed around the entirety of the island, and its not like te lghtouse itself was even taller than the trees around it. Get a fucking grip
-
The cave in the cliff not being seen is very plausible, its a tiny little hole in a rock - its not like any of the characters have been able to conduct a detailed inspection of the island's perimeter. As for the lighthouse - I got the feeling that the reason it couldn't be seen before related to Jacob - he either kept it cloaked until now, or it was never even there until now but he somehow conjured it up for the episode two weeks ago. Its not like this was shy'd away from - I forget which but either Hurley or Jack asks out loud why they never saw this before. I suspect there's a reason, perhaps the show will tell us.
-
We've got to leave the island so we can say we've got to go back to the island and they can say look they've left the island and this is how we left the island before we said we have to go back to the island and this is us leaving the island and this is us getting back to the island and look we're back on the island but this is use after we left the island but before we got back to the island when we said we've got to get back to the island and you said look they've left the island but now they know we left the island and said we've got to get back to the island and know how we left the the island and got back to the island and this is how we got back to the island after we said we've got to get back to the island and when we left the island someone moved the island and when we got back to the island the island had moved and we went back to go back to the island and so we need to go back to future back to the island and back to the future back to the island everyone walks around in the jungle saying how did we get back to the future back to the island and we've got to go back to going back to the island now we're back to the island but not really back to the island but back to back islands back before we got to the island.
-
Excellent run through of the seasons there. Needn't bother re-watching the DVDs, especially S5.
-
where the Others lived? Is that forgotten about or am I just confused.
Been a bit let down by Lost recently, seems to be treading water and all this "evil" infection crap is shit. It's like they know the end but are not quite sure how to best get there -
Back on the island we want to get back off the island back before we were back on the island or back off the island or back to the future island or back before the island was back then.
-
Seriously. I'm going to cut n paste that and keep it to use as my own.
-
I don't have time or inclination to address everything you point out, but I think generally speaking you're right that LOST is a mess if you desire the show to be tight narrative of linear single-minded purpose-driven storytelling.
BUT personally I've always found it more like a series of vignettes that have added up to tell both a compelling overall story as well as a lot of compelling little ones (and admittedly a couple duds). This very like television and from a lesser show, viewers wouldn't even be demanding such a taut narrative flow.
I mean look at shows like the X-Files or DS9 where only a small amount of episodes would actually further the overall plot at all! That's just the nature of television shows. Remember this isn't a mini-series or something. They had to make this whole thing flow over SIX YEARS! I think it's actually turned out remarkably cohesive all things considered. -
LOST is great, and the overall effect is like a cool mosaic made of all the different pieces. But none of it really adds up. There seems to be a really tight story in there. It's just what ended up on screen is more like a first draft of a brilliant piece of fiction. The production standards on LOST are outstanding, a high water mark for network TV, and conceptually it's as ambitious as anything there's been. I think TV is making inroads into the territory reserved for great novels in the 20th century, and LOST is going to be very influential to writers I suspect, but it illustrates a lot of lessons and pitfalls about the problems of doing something like this on network TV. People say TV has become a writers medium, but LOST shows even if you don't get shafted by ABC the same way Mark Frost and David Lynch did, telling the best story you can is going to be incredibly difficult unless you're given an HBO type deal, and even they have a proclivity to cancel things early.
-
Most LOST episodes are very well done. And there's an undoubted ambition to what they weave together. They take a lot of risks with the narrative structure, and succeed, but it's not quite there. The sense that the great thing about LOST is this ongoing story is a bit of an illusion. The construct of each episode holds up a lot better individually than if you actually try to plot out the overall story arc - not in terms of what ideas and imagination and originality are undoubtedly there in abundance, but in terms of the control and execution and timing and rhythm and nuance and emphasis and stuff like that. LOST is really really uneven in terms of it's overall architecture, but that's forgiveable, because it's so insanely ambitious to anything else that's tried to do this cohesively for six seasons. So I imagine most of us are on the same page.
-
Thank you. The fact of the matter is that, for what it is/was, a serial, it was spot on. Was it a better sitcom than Seinfeld or Arrested Development or even Malcolm in the Middle? No. But it was way better as a serialized sci-fi drama. In terms of apples to apples, I would say X-Files is as close as it gets. And in that way I feel LOST is ending when it should.
-
is what every TV show and movie ever made does. A story, at its core, is a manipulation. If you have a problem with it, you and Michael Haneke can go off into a corner, have a few beers, and bitch about how much you hate one of the fundamental aspects of the thing you love.
-
I disagree about those things being flawed. Ok I'll admit I didn't read your whole post even though you had paragraph breaks. But I've said this before: Not every bit of story needs to be in the service of the finale. The story of Michael and Walt was cool in and of itself. I don't think it needs to be a huge part of the largest arc possible to be satisfying in its own right. Personally the only problem I had with it was that when they revisited it in season 4, it wasn't that great. I would almost have preferred they just left and that was that. The bit about Michael being back in the real world was all right but his return was anticlimactic. Anyway, this is an episodic TV show, not a novel. Stories within stories, arcs within arcs.
-
Kate Loves Jack. Kate loves Sawyer. Kate loves Jack. Kate loves Sawyer. Kate Loves Jack. Kate loves Sawyer. Kate loves Jack. Kate loves Sawyer. Kate Loves Jack. Kate loves Sawyer. Kate loves Jack. Kate loves Sawyer. Kate Loves Jack. Kate loves Sawyer. Kate loves Jack. Kate loves Sawyer. We've got to leave the island. We've got to get back to the island. We've got to leave the island. We've got to get back to the island. We've got to leave the island. We've got to get back to the island. We've got to leave the island. We've got to get back to the island. We've got to leave the island. We've got to get back to the island. The plot of LOST is like a woman who can't make up her mind.
-
Good God man... LOST "doesn't really add up"? I actually understand some of your arguments, but the show isn't even DONE yet. I'll wait until episode 6x18 before I give the show my final grade.
That being said, is LOST perfect? Probably not. It did have a few low moments i.e. Fire+Water, Stranger in a Strange Land, Eko's forced exit, a weak backstory for Kate Austin, etc. That being said, the Desmond/Penny arc remains my absolute favorite, favorite story arc of ANY series to date. And short of an AWFUL X-Files Season 9 suicide ending, LOST will probably end up edging out BSG as my absolute favorite series of the 2000s. -
"a series of vignettes that have added up to tell both a compelling overall story as well as a lot of compelling little ones (and admittedly a couple duds)."Exactly. Lost is not a blueprinted, planned from the beginning, streamlined thing. The first three seasons ensured that. Looking at it as a failed example of something like that will really bring out the flaws, which is unfair since ... that's not what it is. It is a victim of being a network TV show to a degree, BUT a lot of good stuff has come out of the patchwork quality of its evolution. Just a quick example would be one Benjamin Linus, a character that we never would have had the pleasure (???) of getting to know if the writers had every detail planned from the get go.
-
Clearly there was going to be a leader of the Others though. They just had the sense and the flexibility to say oooh, let's make it that guy. I'm sure there have been similar decisions, just as there were times they dropped characters, such as Nikki and Paolo. Just why did Ben let himself be captured in season two, LOL?
-
The sense they may have had otherwise, but the point is they had the flexibility to keep the actor on the show. So technically yeah the character "Others' Leader" in the broadest sense probably would have been there, but I'm talking about the character specifically of Ben Linus, as portrayed specifically by whatshisname.
-
hahahahaha! He would so be disappoint! 'Cause now his own son probably want to have gaysex with him. It's so awful! Bad grammer! Gay stuff! Ga-ross!
-
I do love Lost and I haven't missed an episode in years (and even the ones that I missed back in the day, I eventually watched). I love this season, too, but, I must admit, something feels off about this season. Something kinda tacked on. Like a patch on a great pair of jeans that you loved and wanna keep wearing. The patch is not "of a piece" with the jeans, it seems to me. Again, no real criticism ('cause I love the patch/final season), but something just feels... off.
-
manipulating the audience and having a solid plot = LOST. manipulating the audience with no solid plot = Carnivale
-
Michael Emmerson. And that is excactly why LOST is so good. Because they are not trying to tell a story that has to be done a certain way. There are many ways to get to where they wanted to be. "It only ends once. Everything else is just progress."
-
I've always thought there was potential for a great Juliet flashback of her leading him into Rousseau's trap as her personal revenge for what he did to her/Goodwin. That would certainly add a lot of weight to the Ben/Juliet dynamic at the start of Season 3.
But it's quite possible that he either A) actually just stepped in that trap or B) Thought maybe he could lie his way into the survivors' camp.
Rosasaks, you say that narratively LOST is "not quite there." You're right in that there are 12 show hours left. Here's hoping the can get "there" in those show hours. Personally I think if they can explain 2 basic things satisfactorialy then it'll all be pretty narratively cohesive.
1. The history/agendas of Jacob and the MIB (this will explain all of the Others' shenanigans through the seasons as well as the need for candidates and why all our heroes were "brought" to the Island)
2. The importance of "The Incident" happening to both the Island and the world at large. (This will tie together the importance of the Dharma Initiative, Why the O6 had to go back both to the Island and in time, and possibly even explain the necessity/value of the Alternate Universe)
Everything else is gravy, character stories, character alignments with Jacob/MIB, and Island wackiness. Obviously I'd love to be given as much details on every crazy mystery as possible, but those two points are the big ones all the little ones orbit around. Good luck, writers! -
Great comparison. I was really excited for Carnivale but after season 1 I was done. I didn't even bother to watch the season 2 premier. Same with John from Cincinnati.
-
How can so many people be bothered by the fact that we've never seen the lighthouse before but have no problem with the fact that it has a magic mirror on it that reflects lots of different specific buildings that are thousands of miles away?
If you can accept that Jacob/MIB/the Island/? can create a magic mirror that gives you the power of the Wicked Witch of the West to spy on people from far away, why can't you accept that that mirror is located in a lighthouse that is sometimes invisible?
It's like accepting that Superman can fly but being upset that his X-Ray vision "makes no sense". -
I've been watching season 1, and I'm wondering if Kelvin Inman will return to Lost...
-
In the same way, I would imagine that "Eko" kind of is still on screen, or at least quite a bit of what they had envisaged for him, it's just we have to squint a bit with regards to the significance of the aborted ground work for those stories with AAA, which is a shame, because Eko had some of the most well crafted character work going in the early seasons. Eko and Ben are two examples of the show runners coping with the unexpected - a great character planned in detail that led nowhere, and a throw away guest role that led to a great character that's a cornerstone of some of the best stories. Maybe that balances out. Both were introduced in season two. I can live with Anna Lucia and Libby going by the way - they felt incomplete, but I'm not sure how much more there was to come and can live without them, plus I also suspect again Libby became Charlotte to an extent, and maybe Ilyana is a stand in for some of Ana Lucia's traits. The specifics aren't important in this regard. The flexibility works for them and against them I guess. If they had the equivalent of all the scripts being outlined ahead of time, and Eko walked out on them, they'd be a bit fucked. And they'd also be a bit fucked if they'd let Michael Emerson slip away because he turned out to be one of the brightest strengths. So it's swings and round abouts. Except of course it's not so much about writing it on the fly, as having a really long lead in with pre-production, so I think if this was more like HBO, they'd be able to really have their shit together with the casting. LOST has been very good at finding interesting character actors and getting a look at whether they like them and have an idea for them. That's been there from the start in a sense. When this was much more Lloyd Braun and JJ Abrams development project than the show we know as created and run by Damon Lindelof, the casting was done before they had characters. They auditioned actors and then picked who they liked and wrote characters. Because initially every character was "plane crash survivor ####" so they could do that. And it seems the casting calls continued to be on the look out just for people who had something interesting about them. I think they went looking for Miles because they liked him as Junior Soprano's protege in the nut house. But to get back to the point, the frustration is that LOST has such ambition and so many ideas that it does rather transcend the limitations of being a TV show, more so than any network genre drama I can think of, and so it's frustrating that clearly the people making it have not only hit the ball out of the park, they could have done much much much much better too, with more time. But comparing the show now to the horridly uneven days of late season one to early season three, there's absolutely nothing to moan about, which is a strange thing for somebody to say having done so much moaning, it's just the potential of this show is so high, and has been since day one, at its best it's Twin Peaks good, and it's been going for six years. Returning to the vagaries of season two casting, strange how much Desmond comes and goes from sight given his being a fan favourite and the fact his story devices are so compelling. But perhaps because they have something specific in mind for those abilities, they have to keep him off screen a lot until the time is right. There are other characters like that. Christian and Widmore are actors you'd think they would have made regulars by now on any other show. The Richard episode will be interesting.
-
great analogy, but we do it all the time.
I am as guilty as the next guy, watching the latest Indiana Jones, seeing that fridge scene and thinking (that was f@cking rediculous), meanwhile enjoying the other Indy movies, even though they contained a magic box, magic stones and magic cup. -
Clancy Brown is brilliant in that. Strange show. Season one is SO SLOW. Like the atmosphere is great, it's intriguing, it looks good, but Christ, it's SO SLOW. Season two. Ur, fuck, holy exposition, Batman. More just happened in ten minutes than was explained in a whole year. Well that's kinda cool. Except wow, it's SO MELODRAMATIC. Went from this slow build of intense mystery that was getting a bit annoying but kept you hooked, to being this hyper-kinetic frenzy of mad shit. Then they cancelled the third season, which was all mapped out to explain the mythology. But season one is like this nun who's all mysterious, and season two is like this stripper who's all mysterious. Fucking weird show. Good though. At what point did Ronald D Moore fuck off and do Battlestar Galactica? Is that the explanation for the shift? Galactica was a horridly uneven show with lots of very shit story lines and characters some absolutely brilliant ones. If the focus of the whole show had been on Baltar and Six, it would be one for the ages. But after building that so brilliantly, they had no idea how to sustain it, so we get a lot of stuff that's less entertaining and a damp squib of an ending.
-
It's like people forget Indy jumped out of a pilot-less plane, inflated a raft while
falling through the air, slid down the side of an icy mountain, and landed safely in a river. Honestly, I find it easier to believe he survived the nuke/fridge. In the last ten years, people have forgotten that whole "suspension of disbelief" thing. You know, the foundation on which every piece of theater film and television is built on. I -
spot on about the answers that matter. I feel confident that we will get answers to both,probably and fittingly in the last couple of eps.
-
"Dickless" from Ghostbusters - one of the most fun character actors of the last few decades.
Also - who do you guys think are Desmond's parents? We've never been told yet have been told for most of the other main characters. -
I assumed his character was not hugely important or I wouldn't have mentioned it.
-
...Then i will be disappointed in this season, come on Ben, fuck my mind!... just dont use a dharma condom, we all know theyre all expired and doesnt protect against the transmission of stds (smokie transmitted disease)... TEAM BEN (and lostboy)
-
seriously my beloved Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back would have been ripped to shreds if the internet existed at that time, no doubt about it
-
Mar 09, 2010 11:47:39 AM CST
Just out of curiosity, what show do you guys this have perfect e
by ashokforgiven
After seeing all this BSG ending bashing on AICN, geez.. what endings make you folks happy? I thought the BSG finale was fantastic. Really liked the explanation with Six and Starbuck.
Anyways, I'll throw The Shield into the hat. -
The last episode of Twin Peaks is stunning.
-
Ending a TV show is tricky. Most of them don't have a real overarching story to tie up, and those that do typically don't exist purely to serve that one story (like Lost even). Lost is most comparable to BSG I think, because there is definitely a certain payoff waiting that has loomed large throughout the series. Never mind that if they get the island payoff right but fuck up the characters' endings it will be probably more unsatisfactory than if the converse happened.)BSG screwed the pooch but on the other hand they started screwing it well before the finale.On the other hand, the Sopranos had no such mega arc and as such, to my mind ended perfectly, which is to say it kind of didn't.
-
...Angel was the best (my heart was racin after the infamous line and after seein the sacrifices and deaths)... Buffy was ok (Spike made it imo and it was sad to Anya die without a last word to Xander)... now so sitcoms, Roseanne was bittersweet, Scrubs also... funny good endings Arrested Dev...and for guilty pleasure... DAWSONS FUCKIN CREEK...
-
Sopranos finale is very good. The Wire does some very deft symbolism that's more like literature than TV, delving deep into the character histories, so that's way up there. The last episode of The Larry Sanders Show was great. Even a series that dies young can have a satisfying ending. My So Called Life and Freaks and Geeks both did. And it's fitting in a way, cause they're about being young, and being young doesn't last. Speaking of which, the last episode of The Wonder Years was sad, when he says his dad died.
-
...Best example of love lastin forever (despite the lack of love between the two lovers)... but man, that was the most abrupt endin ever
-
Do you think that Mr. Paik WANTED for his son-in-law (Jin) to die? Interesting...
-
Frasier ended well. The last set of episodes with Laura Linney were a real return to form. Season eleven was pretty good in fact, it felt like the show of old, after some ropey missteps for a few years.
-
Personally, I think it's absolutely hilarious that you guys think that you've come onto some profound revelation about the writing process of Lost. I've got news for you. If you think ANY TV show, series of books, or series of movies, or even novel for that matter, in the history of story telling, was pre-plotted to conclusion, you're fucking retarded. General outline, yes. An idea of how you want to end it, yes. But I absolutely guarantee you that when Tolkien was writing the first chapters of Lord of the Rings, he had no fucking idea what was going to be in Chapter 20. A story evolves *as you write it*, because it's *not written yet*. Places you wanted to go with it are no longer viable because of where you've taken it to this point, and new places and ideas open up because of where the story has been taken to this point. Biggest example of this in Lost is Ben, he was only supposed to be in it for couple of episodes, but his character (and actor) turned out to be so awesome that the story changed to keep him in it. A second point about the writing process, is that when you're writing what is essentially a character piece, driven by a crazy, mysterious McGuffin, and you haven't gotten any brilliant ideas about what the McGuffin is, you just start writing the smaller stuff until the McGuffin fully comes to you. And the Lost writers admitted it didn't come to them until Season 2. Which is pretty much par for the course when it comes to stories with crazy mysterious happenings. Let me ask you this, at the beginning of Season 1, why would the Lost creators spend a whole lot of time working out the end-game answers to the batshit stuff going on on the Island, when their main and central focus at that time was creating a single episode at a time that was compelling enough to build an audience and keep them all in a job? Yeah, it would be great if David Lynch already had the Finale written when he was filming the Pilot for Twin Peaks, or if the writers of Quantum Leap knew if Sam was ever going to get back home again when they wrote the pilot, or if Ronald Moore knew what the deal was going to be with Earth when he wrote the first Season of BSG. But they didn't. They never do. That's just how it works. It's just the process, and if you think you're brilliant enough to envision a 6 season, captivating drama, that's able to stretch a single mystery across 6 years without getting boring or frustrating enough to make people stop watching, then go for it. Until you do, shut the fuck up, because you're not even a tenth as smart as you think you are for thinking you've figured out something that everyone else is smart enough to just inherently know.
-
Curb Your Enthusiasm. If The Table Read and Seinfeld turn out to be the last two episodes, that's not so much the culmination of a series, as the culmination of the sitcom format. Really transcendent stuff. Remarkably good. And the last scene is perfect. After all the metaphysical games, which are brilliant, they're sitcom characters, so of course Larry can't change and goes right back to where he started, fucking up the happy ending. Inspired.
-
At some point all stories are made up as they go along. They have to go from not existing to existing, and that process entails making them up. Well done for noticing that and patronising everybody. Nicely played sir. What people are really talking about with LOST is that the writing process continues after production has started. A novelist can go back and insert a paragraph about The Man In Black if he so wishes, during the second draft or editing or whatever. Damon Lindelof can't do this with LOST. So it's the same but different. TV has a different set of constraints. It's like having to publish your first draft. But this is nothing new, people of the calibre of Charles Dickens used to publish "penny dreadfuls". Of course they could revise them for later publications. Which is what I was suggesting. It feels like with the luxury of revision, the story Lindelof has cooked up here could be really really really good, instead of just really good. Okay sorry guys, will shut up before I get even more sanctimonious.
-
Its been 2-3 years since the TASG and Jacks tattoos. It is no longer funny to reference them anymore.
-
For instance, if a film is undergoing rewrites on set, while the actors are already shooting footage, nobody is going to hold their breath expecting the film to win Academy Awards. The suspicion will linger that it is experiencing a troubled production. Although of course there have been exceptional exceptions. Victor Fleming directed a couple of films in 1939 with storied production histories, and they did all right. Twin Peaks is an interesting example in the television world. David Lynch and Mark Frost pretty much fucked off for long stretches of season two. Lynch would ride back in, rip up the scripts, and film whatever the fuck he felt like. And the final episode is genius, and bears zero resemblance to what was originally written. But in general, that's not a very good idea.
-
"It only ends once. Everything else is just progress." Yeah, I think that this is the most important indication from Jacob that the show won't end with a "loop" (ala LOST: VIA DOMUS). There WILL be a definitive ending.
-
Stop trolling trolls. There are things about the show that suck. That does NOT preclude the possibility that aspects of the show are good. To insist otherwise is illogical and PURE TROLL. "WHAAAA! Lighthouse lighthouse lighthouse, WHAAAAA! I don't like the lighthouse! WHAAAA! I got poopie in my diaper! WHAAAAA! I'm ignoring O'Quinn's performance! WHAAAAA! I'm ignoring all the emotional impact the character's arcs have! WHAAAAA!" Talkbackers, we're supposed to ignore TROLLS. To do otherwise is to invite frustration and more TROLLAGE.
-
Would be hilarious if they got JJ Abrams back to do a remake of the pilot episode, with an entirely new main cast, but a few old faces to play "the others". Then proceed to do the entire show in two hours. Perhaps ABC could do this for a film franchise in a few years.
-
...was classic. He wakes up in bed and finds out that he was still in the old show...dreaming of being married to an attractive blond and owning a hotel and being called "Dick." The MASH finale was pretty good too.
-
That's crazy! I can't believe Herc doesn't mention it!
-
My money's on Ana Lucia.
-
Damnit I avoid the "credits" list in Herc's little summary so I can be surprised, only to have YOU spoil it for me in the talkback. DAMN you!
-
In this talkback.
-
...but for what tho? havin sex at 13? for the Posse? highlander 3?... ps- Posse was tight
-
It was perfect. Even better than the wire, IMO.
-
I think the alt timeline was devised as a final curtain call for all the supporting actors to show up one more time.
-
Great cliff hanger. The Fonz strapped on these water skis cause he had to jump over this shark you see but the series must have got cancelled after that cause no-one knows what was supposed to happen when he jumped the shark.
-
But I won't say who I think it was bc it may be a spoiler to some.
-
That was out of left field.
-
A lighthouse is generally intended to be seen from, you know, THE SEA.
-
Stop trying to start fights.
-
Tis a pity Darren Aronofsky never got to do one. He was going to at one point they reckon.
-
on The Soup a couple of weeks ago.
-
For all intents and purposes, growing up watching the show I WAS Dawson, the kid in high school who idolized Spielberg, wanted to be a filmmaker, and was in love with the girl he couldn't have. And in college, when it ended, I was still going through ridiculous relationship hoops with the girl, so when the finale came and it was shown that Dawson didn't get the girl but did get the career, I said "fuck that, I want 'em both."
-
Honest to God that was the best Soup guest ever. His thing at the end,"What the hell was that?" and then the way he said yeesh. Priceless.
-
The Wire, The Shield
-
That's just how angry I am about this lighthouse. If the writers can't keep continuity straight then there is no purpose to life! P.S. JMS had Babylon 5 completely mapped out when he first started it, but then the studio made him fire Michael O'Hare, it threw him for a tizzy. He then had to roll with the punches. Same when they told him at the start of S4 that it would be the last, and then he ended up getting a S5 after he had compressed everything.
-
Both entirely perfect endings. Can't really think of any others. I always hear Babylon 5 is basically perfect in every way, I just haven't gotten to it. Also haven't seen the shield yet, on my netflix queue tho. Any others?
-
Cause Joey should never have joined that fucking weirdo cult and had a baby with that freak and nor should Jen have got pregnant either or engaged to that other freak with the clown paint who killed himself. It just sets a really bad example to Young Americans.
-
...You are my best friend sir for havin the Creek love... i was Dawson too, hopeless romantic in love wit my best female friend and had dreams of writin and directin (its Dawson who showed me my love for movies, but not a big Berg fan tho )... but really i hated Dawson for his views (just like i hate myself for havin the same views cuz really, everlastin love doesnt exist and monogamy is stupid) and i was more of a Pacey Joey fan... but like Dawson, i got to college and grew up... but anyway, that finale was great for Dawson cuz he did get both, he got his dream job and he could forever be wit Joey (but thru semifictional storiesi)... too bad Dawson is doin those robot cell phone commercials tho while everyone else is makin bank (hit tv shows, nominations for awards, havin millionaire kids)... "I DONT WANNA WAIT!"
-
...After Dawsons latest flop, he goes makin commercials for cell phones...
-
Yeah that was great. Very few actors would be able to deliver those lines and make them as funny as he did. I really hope he doesn't just fade away after Lost because he's one of the greatest actors working right now, on tv or off. I wouldn't mind seeing him teamed up with someone funny in a movie as the straight man, like the Charles Grodin and Robert DeNiro team up in Midnight Run.
-
Hee-hee-hee.
-
I think it premiered the same year I decided to be a film director instead of paleontologist or Disney animator. It was the perfect time to get me hooked into the show. Though I too shared Dawson's hopeless romantic viewpoint. Which was later snuffed out by the damn female of the species and made me a bitter man who doesn't really exactly believe in monogamy anymore either.
-
...DCU cartoons... a good finale of five different shows and two movies (Batman, Static Shock, JLU, Superman, Batman Beyond, Return of the Joker, Mask of the Phantasm)... and the REAL Avatar (except the line bout Zuko mom)...
-
Sam leapt onto the bridge of the Starship Enterprise and was stuck there for five years cause Al's plan to look for him on the Battlestar Galactica didn't make much sense.
-
How easy was that to explain.
-
But then I figured that Sayid, Jin and Sun saw it, but we just didn't see that part. Things got a little too busy after their boat trip to go off on a lighthouse exploring expedition.
-
Ben took Sun to the other island by boat.
-
No one could see the cabin either unless Jacob or someone instructed you how to find it. Remember Locke's dream with Horace? Remember how Locke tried to find it again and it was gone? Geez, do you guys even watch this show?
-
Man, when I saw that ending, I remember just sitting there going. Holy shit. After all that, this is your ending? You meet god in a bar and realize you're screwed forever? Lame!
-
- But I just had a YouTube video I co-authored featured on Entertainment Weekly's website!
http://tinyurl.com/yjjqqeq
Couldn't resist sharing! -
Cheif Brody Gotta EAT!!
http://tinyurl.com/ydsccfz -
The Wire. Battlestar Galactica (fuck you haters!) Blake's 7 (dark as fuck). The Angel finale is very good considering it was axed and they kind of threw together a story arc out of nothing. The Sopranos last episode was quite good although besides the final scene I can't remember a thing that happened in it. Oh yeah Phil got beheaded by his car...good times
-
http://bit.ly/aXjWNh I've been saying this since last summer, but oh well. All the doubters, keep doubting! Keamys cooking up a good egg for you to put on your face once the show is over!
-
Love the shirt. Very funny!/I liked the video but I don't watch Parks and Rec, so I don't actually know the song you're parodying. But I do like me some Jabba!
-
"There's nothing "lazy" or "Fuck the fans" about it. They wanted to have a fucking lighthouse so they put one there. They needed to explain why it hadn't been seen before and the answer they give is basically "it's magic". Which might be lame EXCEPT IT'S A SHOW ABOUT A MAGICAL ISLAND. "
Yeah. Look up "diagesis", find out why it's a good idea that a TV show follows the rule it creates in its own diagesis, then we'll talk. Because right now, you're accepting the kind of plotting you'd only find before LOST in stuff like MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE. -
That's definitely him. :)
-
I mean honestly. "OBVIOUSLY the lighthose was cloaked". What? "maybe the lightouse time travelled there". Huh? What kind of drugs are you people on? It's a big island. They didn't see it before. How fucking hard is that? It's also easily the most believable. I swear, sometimes you read things in here and you just have to wonder where you come up with this shit. There is no indication, whatsoever, that it's anything other than "they'd never seen it before", so where do the wild theories come from? Do you honestly believe someone in a future episode is gonna say, "oh, the reason you never saw that before. I used magc cloak and invisibilized it"? Youre crazy.
-
That wasn't really intended as the series finale though. It was an end of season cliff hanger then the show got cancelled so they just edited it a bit and said he never got home, or something like that. I can't quite figure out why that show was so good then the guy goes and makes something like NCIS or Crosby Stills Nash and Young New York or whatever the fuck it is he does now. Actually, I'd pay to see David Crosby solve a mystery each week. He has a flashback to the 1960s and Neil Young plays his Indian spirit guide. Dean Stockwell actually did write and direct a film with Neil Young, so he can be in it too.
-
Granted, -30- was actually quite good, but after hearing so much praise and hype about the The Wire, I was expecting an AMAZING final 5th season that would literally blow me out of my chair.
It didn't suck or anything but after the whole season of McNulty setting up a fake killer, I just kind of shrugged my shoulders. A "good" season, but I probably wouldn't watch it again. Didn't impress me like the final season of The Shield. -
He's been in short supply lately.
-
So, you mean, it's probably actually super small and as Hurley and Jack walked up to it, they shrunk too!?!?
-
... was actually a guest star for tonight. I thought Herc was saying he thought it looked like the dude, not that he was expecting to see the dude.
-
is annoying as FUCK! Big Deal. I totally buy that there could be a lighthouse on the Island and nobody noticed it. These are the 815ners remember! Not exactly the most inquisitive of bunches. Ooh look there is a big statue of a four toed foot! Lets check it out, naah. Lets not even mention it again. If I crashed on some crazy Island I'd go exploring pretty much straight away, but the Losties aren't like you and me, they're self obsessed and narcisistic and having a whole load of emotional baggage to work through. They don't care about some statue. And I don't mind either, its LOST. Thats the way it is. Fucking hell of all the things to get upset about.
Its like the whole WHEN WILL WE FIND OUT WHO THE ECONOMIST IS? debacle all over again. Just enjoy it for what it is -
Re: The lighthouse, I couldn't give two shits why they didn't see it, but I thought the line about "not looking for it" was not to be taken literally and was inferring something supernatural. Which the lighthouse obviously is anyway. But really even if you're not looking for it, you'd still see that fucking thing if you were near it. The characters seemed confused as to why they'd never seen it before and didn't just say oh yeah we've never been here before.
-
9 hours till lost.
*tears his hair out* -
consider me shocked
-
BLAKES 7 - "Blake". The final episode. Everyone of the good guys dies except Avon, who is surrounded by Federation troopers. He has a gun - so do they. He smiles. Fade to black. Lots of gunshots. Credits and title music. Fucking perfection.
BOSTON LEGAL - Could not have happened any other way. Denny Crane is officially a greater Shat role than James T Kirk. To me, at least.
ANGEL - Come on! That is a stone cold badass ending. "Personally, I wanted to slay the dragon." Excellent stuff. And loved Spike reading poetry in the club!
TWIN PEAKS - Excellent example of how to confuse the audience, yet still have the ending make sense. FIRE WALK WITH ME elucidates it all further. Great stuff.
NOT A GREAT ENDING: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA. So we've had several years of the Cylons trying to kill us. Now they've got some weird-ass religious thing going on, and it turns out some of our friends are Cylons, and have been for decades. Hey! I got an idea! We'll fly all our ships and technology into the sun! Yes, even the medical supplies and food recreators! Then we'll live like cavemen, on this new planet whose perils we know NOTHING of, and we'll just hope they don't come back! Hope, hope! And no, we won't mention New Caprica.
Absolute tree-hugging psychobabble bullshit of the highest order. And "it was our planet, all the way in the past" ranks up there with Bobby Ewing walking out of a shower as one of the lamest plot twists EVER CONCEIVED. And if any of you mouthbreathers that actually enjoyed that finale can explain any of it to me in terms that make sound rational sense, I'm all ears.
I'd love to think there's some spectacular rug-pull plot twist a few eps away in LOST that will dovetail the alternate reality with the Island reality and explain to us why we've spent half the last season watching characters that we KNOW are on the island doing shit in either another dimension, reality or wherever - hey, if that twist is awesome, I'm the first to eat crow and say I was wrong. But since we were led to believe that Walt was practically the Second Coming, what with all his mystical powers and shit, and then he's been practically forgotten about, I don't hold much hope out for an ending that satisfies AND makes sense. And all the LOST apologists that will swallow anything JJ pumps their way will argue that it's MEANT to be vague, while NOT recognising that as the lame-ass excuse for lazy writing that it really is.
Meanwhile... I just hope they don't kill Ben next week. He's easily one of the best characters they have. -
And what is the rule of Lost, exactly, that isn't followed by a lighthouse suddenly appearing. The rule that says "a cabin in the woods can appear and disappear in different places but a lighthouse cannot"? What the fuck
-
"These are the 815ners remember! Not exactly the most inquisitive of bunches. Ooh look there is a big statue of a four toed foot! Lets check it out, naah. Lets not even mention it again. If I crashed on some crazy Island I'd go exploring pretty much straight away, but the Losties aren't like you and me, they're self obsessed and narcisistic and having a whole load of emotional baggage to work through. They don't care about some statue. And I don't mind either, its LOST. Thats the way it is."
That's the best explanatio for why people will accept inferior plotting for pretty visuals I've ever read. Yeah, don't care if it makes sense, or if the characters act like real people - hey! It's the way it is!
When did people get so fucking lazy? Is it too much to ask writers to write characters as if they were fucking realistic, even in a show set on a magical island? ESPECIALLY for a show set o a magical island - you need the realism to anchor the wilder aspects, and make it more realistic, enabling an easier suspension of disbelief!
Fuck! Why are you so prepared to be talked down to and condescended to? Did you grow up watching nothing but Michael Bay movies or something? -
The cabin was made out of wood. The lighthouse was NOT made out of wood. How the FRELL do you explain a non-wooden structure disappearing into thin air?
-
huh? what does wood have to do with it? How does an island dissapear into thin air?
-
The stuff with Marlo in the final episode is deep. He's stood back on the corner in a business suit after Omar got shot by a kid in a corner shop. Marlo is Walmart. But he's still haunted by stories of Omar's name, even after he gets Stringer Bell's happy ending by outsmarting the lawyers. You can't even tell their names apart for fucks sake. Omarlo. So he gets into a fight for no other reason than being fearless as fuck and nearly dies but is left standing because he's Stringer Bell and Avon Barksdale rolled into one and he won. Marlo is the only one who wins. He beats the system and is left standing. He can either stand there on that corner back where he started or he can walk away in his business suit. He has the choice, but only if his mind set will let him. This is the last thing before the montage with McNulty on the bridge. But the scene with Marlo is a powerful summation of the whole of the series.
-
If you can buy a guy changing from an unnamed MIB to a smoke monster to a John Locke doppelganger, you can buy a dead Jacob talking to a live Hurley, you can buy the bending of time and space numerous times in the show to move a whole island(s?), but you can't buy that Jacob wouldn't make the lighthouse a/o cabin only appear and in certain places whenever and wherever he wanted it to be?That just does not seem as big of a stretch to me, nor something I am overly concerned with for that matter.-Cheers
-
The same rule that says if they use this device of having shit appear out of thin air for no reason every time they write themselves in a corner, you may as well have the Cheshire Cat and Bobby Ewing pop up in the last episode and say "You jumped the shark, it was all a dream" and have these fuckers all wake up as the 815 is landing safely. If every time they need to shift the plot they add shit that has never been alluded to, as awkwardly as they have been doing (Hurley's shit lighthouse line), it's bad writing, plain and simple. Sorry for not just sucking down the shit and asking for seconds as you obviously are. I actually like plots to make sense. Fuck, how rebellious of me!
-
hello! the island has trees - trees equals wood, which means the island can disappear.
the lighthouse didnt have a high enough wood ratio or threshold. an object must be either mostly wood or contain a certain magnitude of woodiness to qualify for disappearification. the lighthouse clearly did not fill out it's paperwork properly to qualify -
Well, the whole MIB/Smokey/fakeLocke thing is another can of worms I don't want to get into. That's about the time this whole series went to hell - since we got into this Jacob/Esau contest, and suddenly everything Smokey did before makes no sense. How could Ben control Smokey from that wall panel, but not be able to control him now? I know there'll be lots of howls of "MIB was letting Ben THINK he controlled him", but why? Most of the early stuff Smokey did makes no sense when you realise it was the MIB all along! Why go to all the lengths of scaring the Losties, way back at the beginning of Season 1, and trying to discourage them from coming to the hatch? Why the dinosaur type noises? If the MIB needed the cnadidates to help him to escape, WHY try to scare them away from the hatch and everything else Dharma-related??
The Hurley talking to the dead thing has been handled way better, and alluded to from the start. As for the cabin and lighthouse moving, I'd like to think there's a great explanation for that... but I doubt it. -
The rule you mention is not a Lost rule, not in its fucking "diegesis that's for sure - i's a spud mcspud rule. Anyway, where the fuck did you find out they "needed" to "shift the plot"? I don't recall any dramatic plot shift requirement that the lighthouse fulfilled. What did the Lord Yahweh himself tell them to put a lighthouse there and they just had to suck it up and deliver? And how the FUCK did the lighthouse get the writers out of a corner they'd written themselves into? What corner was that for the love of god almighty?
-
"the whole MIB/Smokey/fakeLocke thing is another can of worms I don't want to get into. That's about the time this whole series went to hell"
The whole MIB/Smokey/Fake Locke/Backgammon thing is actually one of my favorite aspects of LOST. :( -
Marlo gets Omar's ending too as well as Stringer's, if you think about it. Basically he steals the connect from Joe then kills Joe and sells it back to Joe's underlings for ten million dollars. That's robbery on a scale Omar can only dream of. Then he walks away from all the murder wraps and he walks away from Levy the mob lawyer with money in off shore bank accounts thanks to Joe. The montage shows how all the other characters are right back in the rigged game. They've just been promoted or become casualties. Those who make it through become the compromised figures the show rails against. And Marlo is the coldest most ruthless character but he's the only one who beats the rigged game. And instead of locking him up, the city gives him a motive to retire a rich man. Even then he has trouble walking away. He's the victor. It's a fucking bleak conclusion. The serial killer story line is all about how these two loveable rogue cops McNulty and Freemon are the same fucking insubordinate fucks they were from day one. There's a reason Freamon was sidelined in that pawn shop unit for twenty years and there's a reason Rawls didn't trust McNulty as far as he could throw him. It's because if you give them any resources or responsibility they do stuff like this. They might have a moral compass that they're willing to act upon that for a time seems appealing to us, more so that the institution they work for, but they're corrupt cops who go so far off the reservation they're the worst of the bunch, even though they're good people. They're not good police. They're intelligent and more competent than their peers, but they're not good police.
-
...is made of wood. That's why it controls all the disappearing!
Finally, some folks showing a little critical reasoning. -
"... pretty much straight away," Uhhh, not me brother. Not when there's some killer monster in the woods.
-
I have yet to watch S5. Please!
-
He just alerted the "security system" to the mercs presence and the danger they faced. And Smokey wanted to manipulate Locke, so had to make sure Locke survived. Honestly, thinking Ben can control smokey is not a well-thought out theory.
-
This is big, and a good one guys: http://bit.ly/9lNTos
-
+10 pts for imagination there. -10,000 for the imagination there.
-
The dramatic plot shift requirement that the lighthouse fulfilled was that the writers needed for Jacob to have a reason to get Jack and Hurley out of the Temple while Smokey attacked it. They decided to put a magical lighthouse that strangely hasn't been seen at all since the series began, and then added the fucking Mirror of Erised that shows Jacob what's happening in every candidate's life/home when it's angled the right way, and rather than wait for Jacob to show up and ask him how the fuck this lighthouse can do what it does (as any sane and rational person would) Jack smashes the place up (because the writers further want us to realise what a fucking pussy Jack is, and how petulant he can be when he don't get his own way). The corner they wrote themselves into? Well, say Jacob got Hurley and Jack to an empty cliff top. They watch the sun go down. Hurley says "Why did you get us out here, dude?". Jacob says, "I'll tell you in ten minutes". They sit there. Sun starts to set. "Right," Jacob says, "I got you sitting here on this boring-ass clifftop watching the fucking sun set because right now my nemesis Fake Locke is killing all your friends that didn't go with him, along with all those Other Other Others you never knew existed. You need to live. Obviously I can't tell you why. Yet.". If this is what happened, you'd think it was shit, and you'd be right. So they cooked up a fucking magical lighthouse, with a magic mirror that shows you the life of a cnadidate when it's angled correctly, and then they get Jack to smash it. Why? IT FUCKING FILLED UP THE TIME AND GAVE JACOB A SHIT REASON TO GET JACK AND HURLEY OUT OF THE TEMPLE! And WHY is it a shit reason? Because they invented a magical lighthouse, with a magical mirror, which has NEVER been alluded to before - and TRASHED IT because there's NO POINT TO IT!! Do you think there's gonna be a fucking lighthouse-and-mirror flashback before the end of the series? I don't fucking think so!!
It was a waste of time, a pointless plot device to justify having Jacob remove them from the Locke slaughter. But hey - you keep thinking it actually had a reason for being there. That's what Darlton WANTS you to do, ain't it?? -
I get that Ben doesn't control Smokey. But considering Smokey can apparently now do whatever he wants, he was pretty damn vulnerable to a lot of stuff before - the sonic fence, circles of ash, Dogen's presence, Jacob. But I still don't get why, if Smokey needed to get most of the candidates onside to help him escape the island, he spent most of S1 scaring people away from everything except their shitty beach camp! Think about it - Smokey stopped them going to the hatch, then the ex-Dharma village, the Temple... Pretty weird behaviour for a guy who could have just offed one of them, stolen his body, and then manipulated them all into helping him escape WAY sooner than now. He was able to fake being a person before (appearing as Eko's brother even though he wasn't) - why not put all this into effect then?
Because the writer's hadn't even THOUGHT of all this at that point. Because there was NO plan for this series - maybe just a vague idea at best... -
...stumbling around the jungle, desperate to find someone to protect him.
As Nelson Munz would say, "hah hah!" -
So that's what the writers call MIB/Smokey/Etc.
-
Or go to the LOST meetup? Oh wait, that's Wednesdays games.
That man caused an explosion....and a whole Island disappeared as a result!"
YOUR MOTHER! -
Was because he smashed the coffin in episode five of season one so he needed something to smash in episode five of season six and oh look here's some mirrors that we've never seen before nobody will mind if I smash these.
-
If they never explain the lighthouse's purpose, that'd be a bit if a strike against them. I think they will. Jack smashing it, that was lame and short-sighted, but was probably meant to show him being decisive and just concerned with ending the invasion on his and everyone else's lives. All I'm saying is the rules they've written indicate Jacob & MIB have some powers over time/space/physics, so making this lighthouse be invisible/unreachable unless Jacob wanted them to see it is not all that far-fetched considering everything else.As for it never being alluded to, on one hand maybe nobody else on the island knows about it (maybe Richard) a/o had a reason to reveal it to them. Maybe it's something they wanted to wait to reveal that was cool but not uber-important, maybe it's short-sighted and they just though of it (e.g. "How does Jacob watch them? Hmmm, Got it! A magical lighthouse!") to explain something and threw it in there. I can buy it was a secret. Stranger things have happened in history than that.For me it depends on how they tie it all together. I'm enjoying the ride, and believe them when they say they knew/know how it's all going to end and have been planning things toward that end (and really, they almost have to have been or else it will just suck come the two-hour finale), so I believe it will all wrap up pretty cleanly.So the lighthouse just now appearing, particularly with godlike Jacob being the person who led them there and the rules allowing for some mystical stuff, really doesn't annoy me or leave me head-scratching. If it all pans out for the best? We'll find out in a couple of months. But I still do not find the sudden appearance of the lighthouse, which required directions from Jacob to get to, as all that stunning.-Cheers
-
Perhaps it would be good if this rage we've seen from Jack where he smashes shit is foreshadowing him losing his shit with another character and smashing their shit up.
-
Ya I hear ya mate. It's kinda like that super famous story about that immortal chick who found this apple tree. And this Man in White comes to her and says, "Dont eat that apple because... I said so". She sits there and talks to a funny snake that tells her the fruit will make her wiser than the Man in White. She eats it with her husband, and they lose their immortality and eventually die.
Seriously, the Man in White could have been like "THE SNAKE IS EVIL! HE IS A SHAPE SHIFTING FALLEN ANGEL AND IF YOU EAT THE APPLE YOU WILL DIE, IT IS A TRICK!" But he didn't. Why? The writer needed a CRAP plot device to make the characters mortal!!! So they added a MAGIC SNAKE and MAGIC FRUIT!!! Basically there was NO POINT!!!
Can ya believe Damon Lindelof fell for the same faulty narrative device when he tried to write LOST? -
I can't really go point by point as to why what you wrote makes little sense (hint: they wouldn't have gone to the cliff to look for a lighthouse IF THERE WAS NO FUCKING LIGHTHOUSE TO LOOK FOR) but it doesn't matter because you're getting away from the main question here. Which is: Was the lighthouse - if it did magically appear - consistent or inconsistent with the show up to that point? I think it's pure blockheadedness to say it's inconsistent; that somehow a lighthouse showing up that was heretofore unseen is some kind of an anomaly. And if it's consistent - which it is - I think it's blockheaded to single it out. You don't have a problem with the lighthouse, you have a problem with a cornerstone of the whole show, which is that mysterious, unexplained shit happens. The lighthouse was not the solution to a festering plot hole or anything like that, it's jut more mysterious island shit. Nothing new there.
-
The mystery isn't who is David's mother, it's whether he murdered her with an axe! Sawyer comes to investigate and Jack murders him with an axe. One by one they all go to see Jack and he murders them with an axe.
-
I don't want to hear one more person snottily assert what "real" people would do when faced with a supernatural island on which a monster lives, etc. "I'd go exploring! Duh!" The FUCK you would.
-
When next to the invisible lighthouse they find an invisible shopping centre.
-
Methinks you art missing the point. Because there is one. In some regards, the "Magic Snake" and the "Man in White" are the two main players. The "immortal chick" and her husband are largely important because they are, you know, symbolic of US.So of course there is a point. You know, free will, consequences for our actions, trust, faith. All of that stuff. You might disagree with those points, but belittling them with such a wide paint-stroke is a bit insulting.-Cheers
-
invisible airport.
-
So Jack goes back in time and becomes George Lutz in THE AMITYVILLE HORROR!! Me like!!
-
they ought to go the invisible opticians.
-
I DO have a problem with the cornerstone - not the entire idea of that fact that mysterious shit happens (that's what made LOST so cool to begin with) but the fact that since half way through last season, suddenly EVERYTHING HAPPENS AT ONCE!!
In one episode, we've had Claire sneak into a temple and tell the Losties that Smokey is coming and they can't stop him, Dogen tried to kill Sayid (twice, counting the Flocke assassination dupe), we found out how and why Dogen got to the island, Sayid revealed himself to be evil and killed Dogen and Lennon, Hurley and Jack found (and smashed) a magic lighthouse and mirror, all the new Templars got killed, some of the Losties escaped and are now AWOL on the island, Flocke is building up an evil army to escape with, and the Temple is now ruined. Oh, and Flocke doesn't quite know if Kate can be trusted (duh). That's a lot to fit in - and I'm the only one who feels like the writers are throwing in everything AND the kitchen sink so that we don't notice them just filling time with situations, devices and people we've never heard of before (or will again) because they have so much to explain away and so little time to do it with?
It comes across as clumsy and amateurish. Sorry, but it does. -
You know who REALLY controls Smokey/MIB/Flocke??
Invisible writers. -
I don't think Smokey needs "Candidates" on his side. He just needs people on his side. Like the devil getting strength through sinners. I'm sure we'll learn more. But when Jacob was alive, I'm confident that Smokey was still a security system, as much as he hated it. He had to judge men's souls.
-
I'd be the happiest person on this talkback if I thought, even for a second, that these guys had a plan and could tie in all the loose ends, explain all the mysteries, by that last episode, which we KNOW will end with Jack getting closure with his FUCKING DISTRAAAAAAACTIIIIIIIING daddy issues. He'll cry like a bitch, we'll all be better people, and thank fuck NO MORE WEEPY BITCH JACK!
But I'd LOVE the writers to wrong-foot me and get it absolutely right. But all the indications are that there is no plan, they're frantically throwing in every weird shit concept they can come up with in a vain attempt to cover up the cracks starting to show in the overall arc with enough weird shit to distract us all. Problem is, it's obvious by the way these answers we've had so far aren't making a lot of sense, that it won't end well.
PLEASE let me be wrong about this... -
That bit about all that happened at the Temple. It sounds like exciting action and a buildup of future events to me. Because you don't like it doesn't make it amateurish. I don't see how all of that is " a lot to fit in".
-
Juliet is Jacks wife, and shes going to end up meeting Sawyer. Great little piece of dramatic irony considering Sawyer stole Kate too.
-
Don't you get it? But considering Smokey can apparently now do whatever he wants, he was pretty damn vulnerable to a lot of stuff before " EXACTLY. Now that Jacob is dead he CAN do just about whatever he wants, it seems.
-
In my post above, I stated I am a *MASSIVE* fan of the Jacob/MiB arc.
Good vs. evil has been around since the beginning of time, and I was sarcastically poking fun at spud mcspud. -
Are the invisible lighthouse keeper. Actually, good point. Don't lighthouses usually have a lighthouse keeper? And don't fictional lighthouse keepers as a general rule have a proclivity for being bat shit crazy? So is Jacob the invisible lighthouse keeper, or somebody else?
-
This weeks TV listings mag in the UK 'Radio Times' states as follows: 'Episode 15 will feature none of the regular cast, and is set "in a time and a place you have never seen on a network series before", according to Michael Emmerson, who plays Ben Linus.' Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
-
Fuck this bullshit, fuck LOST.
-
The other things "candidates" have seen on the Island. Kate's Horse, Dave, Bloody hand kid, the white cat (Sayid).
Like Richard mentioned to Ben about being able to see things other people cannot see. -
That was the cabin Horace WOULD have built, had Jughead not detonated. Think about it. When John saw Horace in the jungle...is it possible he was looking at a sideways version of him...which is why he really wasn't there?
I have no interest in where the Lighthouse came from....and it won't bother me a bit if it's never explained. My guess is, just like the cabin, it wasn't visible until Jacob WANTED it visible. -
Nino Brown will be new leader of the Others. "You still mad at me Ben?...Fuck you then!!!". Maybe Pookie can stumble out of the jungle too. "Dat shit be callin' me!!"
-
Longum illud tempus, quum non ero, magis me movet, quam hoc exigium.
—CICERO, ad Att., xii. 18.
O may I join the choir invisible
Of those immortal dead who live again
In minds made better by their presence: live
In pulses stirred to generosity,
In deeds of daring rectitude, in scorn
For miserable aims that end with self,
In thoughts sublime that pierce the night like stars,
And with their mild persistence urge man's search
To vaster issues.
So to live is heaven:
To make undying music in the world,
Breathing as beauteous order that controls
With growing sway the growing life of man.
So we inherit that sweet purity
For which we struggled, failed, and agonised
With widening retrospect that bred despair.
Rebellious flesh that would not be subdued,
A vicious parent shaming still its child
Poor anxious penitence, is quick dissolved;
Its discords, quenched by meeting harmonies,
Die in the large and charitable air.
And all our rarer, better, truer self,
That sobbed religiously in yearning song,
That watched to ease the burthen of the world,
Laboriously tracing what must be,
And what may yet be better— saw within
A worthier image for the sanctuary,
And shaped it forth before the multitude
Divinely human, raising worship so
To higher reference more mixed with love—
That better self shall live till human Time
Shall fold its eyelids, and the human sky
Be gathered like a scroll within the tomb
Unread for ever.
This is life to come,
Which martyred men have made more glorious
For us who strive to follow. May I reach
That purest heaven, be to other souls
The cup of strength in some great agony,
Enkindle generous ardour, feed pure love,
Beget the smiles that have no cruelty—
Be the sweet presence of a good diffused,
And in diffusion ever more intense.
So shall I join the choir invisible
Whose music is the gladness of the world.
-
agreed that the series was short-changed with that finale. BUT, it still served a purpose. The take away wasn't that "Sam got stuck in time forever." It was that sometime good people make an ultimate decision to devote themselves to doing the "right" thing over living their own lives. It's been a while since I watched the finale, but I believe the Bartender gives Sam an option to go wherever he wants at the very end. And Sam chooses to continue leaping (to help Al instead.) Bartender tells Sam the leaps will get harder. Sam accepts this. Sam also accepts that sometimes you have to make decisions to do the right thing without knowing all the facts about why a situation is the way it is. Agree or disagree with it, but there's a message there. Even if it's an idealistic one. Don't misplace your dislike of the series ending unfairly onto the finale. Ok, thanks for the chance to vent. Back to LOST.
-
in addition to generally being "batshit crazy", is it also accepted that lighthouse keepers have a loved one lost at sea and adopt a redheaded boy and his INVISIBLE dragon to keep them company? just ponderin'
-
confession: it took me several times of rewatching it to come to a more appreciative understanding/interpretation. but, to this day I still wonder if "Shtopah" means "Steve" in Russian.
-
Or Smokin'? 420 Dragon!
-
Were the Grogans who were chasing him Others? they sure dressed like it.
-
lol Perhaps it explains why Dogen the banker was such a good martial arts fighter. .....unless we are just supposed to assume he would be because he Japanese...but that would be awfully ignorant.
-
I find myself screaming this any time Kate is on screen. Shtopah! Shtopah!
-
For some reason Kate makes me do an impression of a Scottish-Russian submarine captain shrieking "stop her... stop her!"
-
Have you ever, ever felt like this? When strange things happen? Are you going round the twist? No? Just me then.
-
How'd new Dharma recruit Hurley get such kitchen prominence so quickly? Did he have to fight to be a chef? Did Dharma really just hand out such an important role that easily? Surely there must be details on how Hurley fought his way to "chef" level in the Dharma kitchens. Maybe he organized a whole Island Iron Chef and won? And while we're on the topic, what station held the Dharma kitchen? Did I miss the episode where the Losties find the Cornucopia Station? Other LOST mysteries we need answers to: Did Mikhail eat in the Dharma Commissary (AKA: the Casino)? Did he have any food allergies? What happened to Radzinsky's eyes that caused him to wear glasses? How many VW vans were on the island? How much did a gallon of gas cost in '77 ON THE Island? What was in Room 22 and Room 24?!
-
I might be spelling it wrong...or need a Cyrillic keyboard. I did a Google search and found something that says "Steve" in Russian is "Stepan", but there's no pronunciation guide with that.
-
Gotcha. Sorry, sarcasm doesn't always translate, and I've been skimming the talkback. The oversimplification makes more sense now. ;)-Cheers
-
Mar 09, 2010 3:52:42 PM CST
Well, your story is very compelling, Mr. Jackass, I mean, uh, Sh
by rosasaks
So, I'll just type it up on my invisible typewriter.
-
thing is, reality is... Lost is a bag of cheats, a mind-numbig stream of lies only destined to make the audience confused and stretch the storyline that would have made good 90-120 minutes of entertainment via a movie for 6 f*cking seasons. It's just stretched, folks. Anyone that read or seen things like Slaughterhouse 5, the Days of the Future Past saga in Marvel comics, knows this is a rip-off and can already see where's going (and coming from). Seriously, people talk shit about Heroes - with minor cheats and that at least has a goal each season, and self-concludes - and keep praising this series in which half of the cast can't act to save their asses (as Matthew Fox's film career already proved). I'm just watching it in a kind of morbid pleasure... it's kind of a trainwreck, the rocky horror picture show of television. So bad, it's good. And heck, I do like JJ Abrams, but Lost is garbage.
-
Laughable man.
-
How many people could the Dharma sub sit all at once? Would Vincent ever dig up the remains of Nikki and Paulo and bring a femur back to Bernard to play catch? Did Bernard ever create bamboo and rock versions of dental equipment to pass his spare time? What size shoe did Pickett (the Other) wear? Did his wife WhatsHerFace die or just show up breifly b/c the rest of that season got cut short? Why did Lapidus completely shave his face when he started flying for Ajira? Why do Ethan Mapother and his brother Tom Cruise share a father, but Ethan looks creepy, but Jack and Claire share a pa and they're both "beautiful" people?
-
What kind of clue is Darlton giving us that Lennon from the temple looked like a cross between Animal and Floyd from the Muppets?
-
fuck proofreading!
-
with all the Hollywood rebooting goign on, canit be far away?
-
So now your problem is "everything happened at once"? My how thing have changed. I remember the good old days when the only problem with Lost was that lighthouses were horning in on woodsy cabin's territory.
-
which makes Lennon Jack's dead nephew. Which makes Christian Shephard the grandfather of Squirrelbaby (by adoption). Which has absolutely no connection to Sawyer's little Clementine brat! Wait, maybe Kate is Clementine! huh?
-
Hour eight? Looking forward to it. Always dug Ben as a character. Plus, the eps that center on him are usually pretty messed up.
-
Usually I just ignore such posts, but cifra's post should be in the Smithsonian or some shit. Pure, perfect trolling at its best (worst).
-
I can have both problems simultaneously! I can hate that there's a magical lighthouse appearing because the writers couldn't think of anything else for Jack and Hurley to do while at the cliff, AND I can hate that the writers are cramming everything into every episode in a vain effort to hide the fact that there is NO overall arc being finished here, they're just trying to figure out how the hell to finish this thing that's gotten away from them! Why can't I have BOTH problems? DON'T EVER TELL ME WHAT I CAN'T DO!!
Wait, was that a clue?? ;P -
I miss the Ben from Season 3. but, it seems like his perceived role as "leader of the Others" is done with. I have a hard time seeing the logic behind him getting to run things the way he did, though. I mean, why let certain Others have fun over at the old Dharma camp while the rest stay in rags at the temple?
-
Is misspelling Ilana's name (by putting a Y or multiple Ls in it) the new version of calling Mr. Eko "Mr. Echo" as a way of showing that you've actually seen the show, you just don't care? Jeez, if only they had the technology to put some sort of thinking box in people's homes with some sort of system to hook them together so that common knowledge like the spelling of TV characters names could easily be looked up so that people who enjoy a TV show could discuss it intelligently. Oh well, maybe in the future.
-
Great question!
-
Funny parallel that MIB as Locke has directly used other people to kill someone at least twice now: Ben to kill Jacob and Sayid to kill Dogen/Lennon. (Three if you count his indirect influence upon Ben to kill Locke off-Island?) Now MIB in Locke form has apparently "recruited" Sawyer to help him accomplish his agenda. Is it coincidence that the real Locke also used Sawyer back in Season 3 (or was it 4?) to come to the Black Rock and kill Anthony Cooper? Something else Locke "couldn't do"?
-
that last post of yours sounds like the logline for that flick Room in Rome.
-
The other points I should say. Getting Jack and Hurley to the Lighthouse was NOT done ONLY to get them out of the Temple. If you REALLY think that's the only reason they were there at the cliff, then you really aren't paying any attention. No wonder you're abit confused.
-
Now, why did that make me laugh?
-
12th century mystic Meister Ekhart.
-
So what else am I missing here? From what I remember, Jacob wanted Jack and Hurley away from the temple because he knew what Smokey was about to do, and also because Jack had to figure something out for himself. Somewhere along the line, I predict this will include Jack weeping like a bitch. Anyway - what else am I missing??
-
Remember when the O6 were on the chopper and the Island(s) vanished. Find me an expert in magical vanishing Islands who will testify that the large and small Islands HAD to go to the same place. Or, if you read acronym, Save Tom Friendly's Underwear.
-
Jacob apparrently needs Jack to figure something out. perhaps he used the Lighthouse to further that agenda. If nothign else, it seems that Jacob knew what was going to befall the Temple and knew Jack would not be able to focus on whatever he's thinking about at the very end of Lighthouse if he had still been at the Temple.
-
The way I see it, there were three things accomplished by sending Jack and Hurley to the Temple, possibly 4: 1. Jacob needed to make sure Hurley and Jack were protected and away from Smokey (we see Jacob trying to salvage his long-gestating plans). 2. The audience gets to see that Jacob has (potentially) been following every candidate their entire lives. 3. Jack gets the shocker that Jacob has been watching him all his life. He gets to come to the realization that there may be such a thing as fate, that despite everything that's gone wrong lately, that maybe he IS supposed to be on the Island at this moment. Its an important revelation for him. 4. Potentially Jacob did intend to also help bring someone new to the Island while accomplishing those previous goals.
-
He drives a 1934 Chrysler Airflow sedan. Smokey has emotional problems.
-
and the Island of Passamaquattie will never be the same!
-
The Lighthouse was NOT just a way to get Jack and Hurley away from the Temple. There was more to it.
-
point taken. Will LOST ever get the "huge purple heart" we've been promised?
-
Pete's Dragon is Elliot. Elliot was the kid that befriended the alien in ET. Peter Coyote was pursuing the alien in ET. A coyote is closely related to a wolf. MIB as Locke is a wolf in sheep's clothing. WALT!!!!
-
Well, you must laugh. Lost fans... There's a lighthouse, made of stone, on a cliff, by the sea. That's preposterous! What lazy fucking writing. How can there possibly be a lighthouse, made of stone, on a cliff, by the sea? I've never seen something so stupid in all of history. A lighthouse, made of stone, on a cliff, by the sea. Well I never. Lost fans... There's a mirror when you rotate it 360 degrees looks deep into the souls of people thousands of miles away far far back in to the past. Of course! Of course! Why didn't we think of that! A mirror when you rotate it 360 degrees looks deep into the souls of people thousands of miles away far far back in to the past. How did we not think of this before? It's so obvious. What brilliant writing. This explains everything.
-
Is that Smokey?
-
Or, instead of Dogen handing Sayid a special knife, he'd have pulled a big pink french tickler outta that box. "Here, use this on him!" "What would you have me DO to him with this?" "Whatever your heart desires." Hurley enters suddenly. "Hey dudes, did you guys know-WHOA! Sayid, you are definitely not the same since you came back from the dead."
-
You've been here nonstop allllllllllll day long talking about everything you hate about a television show. Honestly, do you have anything meaningful in your life? Trolling is one thing, but you've been going nonstop for like 9 hours now. What gives? Don't you have one better thing to do?
-
Wait, now you're on to something. This isn't about "good and evil and ancient gods. This is about Puff the Magic Dragon vs Pete's Dragon. it's about a non-Disney property vs a Disney property...airing on a network owned by Disney! that's not really a lighthouse. It's actually a giant french tickler! Oh, nevermind. You LOST fans are all the same...overreacting for the wrong ocassions.
-
Is the Dread Pirate Roberts.
-
I'm honestly wonderig what drives a person to do what your doing for such an incredibly log time. It's just a baffling waste of time to me. I beg to know why you do this, and why you don't have anythig better to do.
-
Don't you know that there is no better thing to do than spending time on AICN talkbacks. Of course you do, that's why you came back!
-
I want to call you Rosa Parks for some reason. I don't know why. Anyway, that would make Hurley "Fezzik", no?
-
if DPR was MIB, and DPR was actually Wesley, then I guess it'd have to be someone on MIB's side. Which means "Fezzik" could be...Sawyer?
-
Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time. Are they called detectives? Watch - and see what life teaches.
-
If you're in such a hurry, you could lower a rope or a tree branch or find something useful to do.
-
Anybody got a peanut?
-
he's got a finale to plan, characters to murder, and Lost fans' expectations to blame for it. he's swamped!
-
Look, I don't mean to be rude, but this is not as easy as it looks, so I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't distract me. All right Finky, I've never had a valet, you can try if you'd like. I'll most likely kill you in the morning.
-
Just wondering... do the characters "see" their flash sideways or is the audience looking at it as a third person. aybe if they "see" their alternate selves, they can make a decision whether to stay on the island or go live in their alternate universe.....
-
"Well, Roberts had grown so rich, he wanted to retire. So he took me to his cabin, and told me his secret. "I am not the Dread Pirate Roberts", he said. "My name is Ryan. I inherited the ship from the previous dread pirate Roberts, just as you will inherit it from me. The man I inherited it from was not the real dread pirate Roberts either. His name was Cummerbund. The real Roberts has been retired fifteen years and living like a king in Patagonia." Thank you. Then he explained that the name was the important thing for inspiring the necessary fear. You see, no one would surrender to the dread pirate Westley. So we sailed ashore, took on an entirely new crew, and he stayed aboard for a while as first mate, all the time calling me Roberts. Once the crew believed, he left the ship, and I have been Roberts ever since. Except now that we're together, I shall retire and hand the name over to someone else. Is everything clear to you?"
-
I hope someone somewhere is archiving all the lost comments from all the talkbacks. Later when the show is over I'd love to see who came the closest to 'the answers'
-
I award Finky the "Hey that's some funny stuff" award for his Lost mysteries series. good stuff.On a less jocular note, Finkster, you stated "Ben to kill Jacob and Sayid to kill Dogen & Lennon." Just a hunch in regards to a very small point, but I don't think MIB or anyone cared about getting Lennon killed, he just happened to show up at the wrong place at the right time with his throat hanging out.
-
I learne I'm not a detective, everything has a reason, and I have a tight sweaty asshole that has something to do with a French tickler, but no one even came close to telling me why this hopeless loser would spend his enter waking up day on a talkbak for something he claims to hate yet watches week in and week out. Obviously he has nothing better to do every Tuesday night. If he did, he would do that every Tuesday. I have other things I could do every Tuesday night, but in my opnion, not better things, because I love lost. He hates it vehemently. And yet...here he is. Why?
-
At the end of season one of Genero Denberry's Andromeda, Everyone is dead, dying, being converted by monster aliens, nailed to a wall, in a room with the oxygen blowing out, and the entire ship is falling from orbit into the enemy stronghold.At the end of Joan of Arcadia season one Joan learns that she has contracted Lyme Disease from a deer tick bite months earlier, that one of the symptoms is delusions, and she decides to believe that all of her interactions and encounters with God have been only in her mind. In the final scene we see the shows various versions of God avatars gathered in her hospital room, hoping she recovers.In BOTH cases these were better series endings than what they eventually wound up giving us.Also, the final episode of She-Spies was a clip show. That was pretty funny.
-
Mar 09, 2010 5:37:14 PM CST
I'd do it, bc I do enjoy watching pple's reactions as stuff happ
by d.vader
"Holy shit, Sayid just shot Keamy!" etc etc. But I've got LOST viewing parties to host. And sitting on my laptop ignoring my friends might not be the best idea.
-
...he is just pissed at somethin that was so great...now, I dont hate it as much as he/she/it does, but I can say for certain, its not the same...now, hopefully tonight, the episode will fuck my mind (like i said earlier at top) because Ben is my favorite character on the show (but Des is my favorite part of the show)...so if a Ben ep cant get my mind all wet and juicy, then I will be disappointed...but hopefully this episode will fuck my mind like the hoe fo sho that it is...
-
...when you read this, make sure you go check out the Remember Me talkback...you will LOOOVVVEEE the discussion thats goin on in there...
-
Great points! Once again I will point out how airtight your logic is, given that seasons 1-5 are so drastically different than this one that isn't finished. Let me also congratulate you on not just reverting back to ripping on icky gay people but a big thumbs up for adding Jews to your shit list. Those fuckers have had it too easy for too long! Get 'em, lostboy. Affect change. Sway hearts and minds. Matter!
-
i'd say spud mcspud was right. It is lazy writing. Any attempt to say 'it wasn't meant to be seen' etc reminds me of David St Hubbins' immortal words, 'I think you're all trying to rationalize this into something that was done on purpose'.
And the cabin argument doesn't hold water. Initially it was meant to be constantly shifting and hard to find, cause it suited the writers to have it be so. Later it becomes stationary and seemingly easy to find. -
...if i sit by myself in a room, high, watchin the episode then immediately goin to AICN to discuss? its not?... damn, i need some loserish friends...
-
...otherjosh is lostboy, right?... thats what Im led to believe by our trusty leader, Rizzo!...
-
Is like a road trip, and instead of cranking the tunes, enjoying the scenery and sparking a bowl, people are screaming and kicking in the back seat "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? I want answers, I want a soda, this soda hurts my teeth" It may be best to enjoy the ride.
-
Let's say the under-bridge residents were right and the writers just gave up and dozens of major mysteries go unanswered and the final episodes are just a series of magic tricks and vanishing lighthouses and introduced to die characters to distract us fro not delivering a solid ending. So then what?Well, let's say that the TV viewing public for this sort of story loses it's patience with network TV and decides "that's it; no more series long mystery shows with involved, complicated mythologies, no more riddles within enigmas, no more investing in the start of a series that might be canceled on the way or might not pay off even if it isn't.So what happens then? Networks stop buying pilots of long continued mythos heavy series long mystery shows and we stop getting Invasion, Threshhold, Surface, The Nine, FlashForwards... Okay, so we might miss out on something sorta fun and entertaining like Fringe, but we'd go back to getting a lot more complete in one episode shows with season long status quos where the only major changes or developments revolve around occasional replacing a departing actor with a new character. Which is how an awful lot of good or great shows were structured and nearly all shows were done back in the "old days".See? Win/win.
-
Season 6 of Lost. Based on what has come before in the prior 5 seasons, write your own goddamn Season 6 outline. Follow the threads that YOU want to follow. Give the answers that YOU want to hear. Because, like all ingrates in the history of the fucking world, you won't be happy unless every fucking thing goes 100% your way. Jesus Christ this is ridiculous.
-
Yes. I am lostboy.
-
...sweet...ya should do some standup as both josh and lostboy...ya can be the first schizophrenic comedian (i think)...
-
But aren't all ventriloquists schizophrenic comedians?
-
just to see if the internet breaks the next day.
-
...say whaa? a bowl is for a quick, in home use... now a blunt on the other hand, thats what you use for a ride...just make sure its a good flavor just in case ya gotta swallow it after the cops pull over after seein the inside of your car is filled with the smoke monster...
-
I couldn't do stand-up as lostboy. All those gay jokes? I would literally kill the audience with laughter.
-
...thats quite disgustin but memorable... i like it!... and no ventriloquist are just people who are best friends wit a midget and wanna make money off them...just draw two lines goin down from the crack of your mouth...
-
You can have two problems simultaneously but my point is you were talking about one thing then it BECAME something else. As if by ... magic.
-
...redundant talkbacks in the history of AICN. Seriously, it's the same ten posters throwing the same insults at anybody who has an opinion that varies from whatever it is they just KNOW is going to take place before seasons end. Just shut up and watch the show already. It's been six days since the last ep has aired, you shouldn't have anything new to say until you've seen the new one. So frustrating.
-
Compared to seasons 1-5 is the Flash Sideways, and *that's* all. There has been no other change in storytelling; they are doing the same thing they've always done. I'd actually argue that the series is split. Seasons 1-3 are one half of the series told in a very similar way. Seasons 4-6 are different from 1-3 in the way they tell the story are constitute the other, faster-paced half. Seasons 1-3 were all about having character moments mixed in with the mystery. Then once Season 4 started, it was all about shortened seasons and gone were the character episodes, episodes I personally adored but ones that others decried, bc all they cared about were plot progressions and answers. So now we don't get episodes like Hurley's Van, but instead are treated to stories that always end on a cliffhanger of sorts. But really, in the end, there is nothing happening differently this season than what has happened previously.
-
Why don't you take a vow of silence then when you die somebody can sum you up in five minutes at the eulogy. I'll chip in for a gravestone that says "Here lies Jaka. What a cunt."
-
That's my whole point. You can't say what a lot of these people do that, they love the first 5 seasons but this one sucks. It's the same show it's always been. The only difference is that now they're more likely to answer a question or two. I mean things like Dogen getting introduced and then killed; anyone remember Pickett or his wife. They've been doing this stuff from the start.
-
Did you just solve the "has mib left the island mystery"? He may have been corrupting locke at the hippie comune
-
...I guess Vader is right, that its basically cuz of the flash sideways because we dont care (as of now, that is)... but really I think it has to do wit MIB... maybe he seems to be too smart, conniving, powerful, whatever, but his introduction left a bad taste in my mouth (even though I admit, it is cool how he manipulated so much)... dont get me wrong, i like MIB, but I just wish he had REALLY popped up sooner... but then again, another big reason why this season may seem off is cuz Ben Linus is not BEN LINUS this season... and to me, Ben makes the show (wit Des right after)...
-
...if I did solve it, Ill let you know, Im about to go inhale some smoke monster in a few... I just hope he dont make me scream "dont tell me what i cant do!"
-
thanks. Feel free to continue the series!
-
I realy don't mind that they killed Dogen and Lennon, but I understand why people might. These two guys show up, acting Jedi/Yoda'ish, like they have all the answers ect. Yeah, Picket and Coleen were killed off right away, but Picket was never anything more than an a-hole and a thug who had it out for Sawyer, and the wife was even more minor. We weren't going to get any answers from them. Dogen was presented as a character who had answers. Now he's gone.
-
John Locke will be pulled from the sideways universe to the island timeline. That's the meaning of the term "substitute."
-
...is datin/married to either Danielle or Penny in the flashsideways? i mean, we gotta have at least one female from his past, in his flash sideways present, which is our past...
-
Not trying to pick a fight. Dogen was only a character who had answers to you. To a lot of others, like myself I figured he wouldn't be around too long so I was as invested in him as I was Picket or anyone else, that isn't the main cast. My point is that we make the characters what they are. Some people will cheer if Ben dies. I will be very upset. Others will say he was never important to begin with so who cares? Others will say the writers haven't ever know what they're doing and they hate us and this is all an experiment and I hate everyone and this show is such bullshit. But in the end the journey is what you make it. I choose to enjoy LOST and feel like the writers make that really easy.
-
I originally thought Ben still kidnapped her but I actually think it would be weirder and more interesting if he was with Danielle.
-
but has anybody seen the new bad ass animated trailer for breaking
bad? jesse walt and everbody r superheroes cant wait for the new season -
...and his favorite hobby is titty fucking her...not a handjob though wit those manhands...
-
You missed my point about the LOSTies not exploring the Island. I'm not forgiving lazy writing, I'm just accepting the way the show is. Vader is right, the format of LOST is only really different in seasons 4 and 5, and even then only partially. For me LOST is like no other show in the 'it is what you make of it' stakes. If you get bogged down in 'character X not doing this' or 'not telling this person this at the right time' or whatever then you miss what the show IS good at. It presents mysteries, and offers you the chance to figure them out. Most of the time, it does it well. Sometimes it can feel a bit forced. I accept its not a perfect show, hell even The Wire isn't perfect. But after 5 seasons of being entertained and occasionally infuriated with LOST I just accept it for what it is and enjoy the ride. After all there's only 12 hours left.
And no I did not grow up watching Michael Bay movies, I would hope that even the children of Michael Bay are spared that ordeal -
Name that William Atherton reference...
-
Because it fucked with the expectations of the viewers in a way that was epic. Ya think the bad guy was a Bond-villian? NOPE. You expected answers? FUCK OFF. The ending of the Prisoner was the EXACT SAME SHOT from the beginning of the series. We will see the guys on LOST do the SAME THING. Trust me, they have cited The Prisoner as an inspiration. Prepare to be angry at the finale, as we go right back to the beginning. The island is a loop.
-
I'll fuckin guarantee that shit.
-
Didn't Sayid and someone sail around the Island? That's when they found the foot and also the fact that there were 2 islands. Pretty hard to miss a lighthouse.
-
the way I reconciled it in my head was that, say Oceanic survivors were at the Southern tip of the island, the Others were located to the North East, so Sayeed sailed north and to the east to get to their camp, while the lighthouse was north and to the west. The other island was also to the north east as well, hence this western portion of the island would have been largely unexplored. Once the shows over the producers will have to publish an actual map of the island to give some of this stuff some reference.
-
When Sayid first sees Locke in the jungle Locke does pause and stand there for a second giving Sayid a chance to stab him before he says hello. I hate to say it but I think the simplest answer is the correct one here. Sayid allowed him to speak, hence no knifey time.
-
Rosysacks wrote: "Here lies Jaka. What a - - - -."The word I omitted is a vulgar and offensive term for the female genital apparatus.So what you're saying is that Jaka is widely beloved by well over half the population of the planet, is warm and receptive, fragrant and delicious and as beautiful as a Georgia O'Keefe painting? That Jaka is the miracle of humankind, the bringer of life and gives great pleasure to all who enter there? That a significant portion of the entire internets is devoted to posting photographs and drawings of Jaka? Is that what you truly think of Jaka?Because the alternative is that you were using the word Aunt spelled with a C in place of the A in a disparaging manner.Loo, we're all tired of all that pop psychology nonsense about how all heteronormative and verbally abusive homophobic people are really deeply repressed and closeted homosexuals. Even though it's conclusively been proven that that stereotype is only factual in slightly over 87% of the cases.However, the statistics on people who use a term for the vagina as an insult are much higher: close to 98% of all people who use terms for the female genitals in ways that are intended to be insulting either hate the vajayjay or are afraid of it.I also reject the widely accepted stereotype that most or all "sci-fi geeks" or "nerds" are virgins, gay or gay virgins. There is no evidence to support such a ludicrous notion. However, the 55% of you who are completely unfamiliar with c*nt and think it is a bad thing; you really ought to consider being more open minded until you have had an opportunity to check it out for yourselves. C*nt is actually very nice, once you get used to it.
-
Amen. Well Said
-
The thought that the show ends as it began? Well, one fairly popular theory in these talkbacks has been that the LA X off island reality is "season seven"; that everything on island leads up to the sinking of the island between 1975 and 2004, which in turn leads to the events of 2005 (the crashing of 815) occurring differently than we have already seen them progress. So, yea, Season Six began in a way very similar to Season one up to the divergent point (plane not breaking up). So, yes, it is possible that that IS the ending. We ought to know for sure by June.
-
with this Glee club show on Fox I keep hearing about? They're rerunning the mid-season finale episode tonight. Should I watch that instead of Lost?
-
BOTH The OtherJosh and Lost Boytex Assstampons have claimed to be the other. This freaks me out, since I thought most of Josh's riff on pretending to agree with everything LadyTex says was parody. And mostly pretty funny except for the antisemitic parts.But I thought I was the first person in the history of the internets to pretend to be someone else, when I convinced Mike Fox that anotherdeadmartindale and VinkieKitten were the same randomly chosen banned talkbacker name. And I stole the idea from John Jombi and Bill Bofetti.
-
so, you kids actually watching the pop up video version?
-
before the New Episode?
-
This is your Brain on Keamy.
-
Was anyone else a victim of LostFan108's reign of terror spoiling the end of Season 3's flashforward? I remember I was in a talkback for either 24 or The Wire and I remember in a post in that TB, that dickhead put in the subject line "JACK AND KATE GET OFF THE ISLAND"...Glad to know that as the show is nearing its conclusion, the greatest twist and most un-want-to-know-able spoiler was spoiled for me by that cock.
-
...high, ready to watch LOST, better be satisfied...ho yea, TEAM BEN!
-
Jack says, "Damn, I gotta take a mean dump." And he turns around to find an outhouse there that wasn't there before.
"Why didn't I see this earlier?"
"Maybe because you weren't looking for it, dude..." says Hurley. -
What happens after the island. When island time ends, the island (for whatever reason) never existed and what we're calling "sideways timeline" is actually what happens without the island...
The epilogue, delivered with the last chapter. -
I am not actually lostboytexass, but I kinda gave up on trying to clean that up since there isn't a sincerity icon or something to convey when I'm being honest.
-
I've read that theory alot. I subscribe to it myself, actually.
-
Mar 09, 2010 7:57:52 PM CST
Anyone find it strange how Sun manage to be alive
by hollywoodhellraiser
when she the most useless character on the show! I mean really give her something to do or kill her off! I grow tired of her "deer in the headlights" acting!
-
they did talk about the temple early on, it was one of those locations, like the radio tower and the pearl and the swan, that you knew they would get to eventually.The lighthouse, on the other hand....
the only way to explain that would be some mystical invisible Jacob shit...which I could live with. -
We will see the alternate timeline END UP back with the plane crashing, because the characters cannot escape the island in the alternate timeline... they are destined to be on the island and end up crashing - again - for the first time. Listen to the dialogue at the beginning of last years cliffhanger again, and that is the foreshadowing to the last season...
-
hmmmm.......
-
Mr. "No Dick" himself!"Yes, your honor this man has no dick"!
-
Mar 09, 2010 8:04:36 PM CST
Artz!!! Fuck I knew this guy was important to Lost!
by hollywoodhellraiser
Now how to blow him up at school!
-
hmmmm.....
-
TVguide: "Lindelof says the show is not going to specifically state why, however, “we feel like we’ve given you the empirical data so you can figure it out for yourself.” Hmm… a little more help please for the clueless? “Clearly Ethan was born on the island in 1977,” continues Lindelof. “That’s the last baby that we know of who was born on the island. And then something happened between 1977 and when our show takes place in 2004 (when Claire arrived eight months pregnant) where it’s been a long time since women have been able to have babies on the island. What might have happened between those two points that could have created fertility issues?” "
-
hmmm....
-
Mar 09, 2010 8:07:14 PM CST
Wailt, are they really that surprise?! Dude confess to killing L
by hollywoodhellraiser
Guess his speech at the burial went over their heads!
-
......the sideways universe is where the castaways get "what they truly wish for". or along those lines...
-
that whole scene with his students was classic Indy. but really that kind of classroom scene has been done to DEATH. teacher writes on board, mentions random shit that kinda has to do with the plot ina round about way, bell rings, he talks over it to mention READ THIS DONT FORGEET while some authority figure stands out side the door waiting for him. CLASSIC
-
could be referring to trace radiation on the island from the bomb, if so, thats a shitty cop out
-
Is this episode even worth watching?
-
And will be exploited.
-
.....DAMN its good to see her....alive
-
Multiple Personality Disorder is not the same as Schizophrenia. Schizophrenia involves hallucinations, generally auditory and in many cases visual. A person may react to their hallucinations in an "uncharacteristic" manner, but they are still themselves. And schizophrenia may *lead* to Multiple Personality Disorder as a coping mechanism. But they aren't the same thing. Yes, it's pedantic of me. But... well... I'm on the west coast and I have to find SOME way to waste time until the show.
-
Awesome.
-
Awesome.
-
Ben Linus: Creepier WITH Glasses or WITHOUT?
-
Is so hot!!!!! Goodness!!!! I was thinking not good thoughts when she asked for some one on one tutouring... from her adopted dad!!!
-
Sorry neither are really important characters. I imagine that was a red herring.
-
Is GOLDEN!
-
this show will go down as the biggest cocktease of all time. AnswersS? not yet. We've only been waiting for yrs and yrs.
-
The ole' dig your own grave is cliche.
-
L-O-S-T.
-
What's a four-letter word for "cocktease"? Alex?
-
If Nuclear radiation and exotic matter create infertility problems, then how were we supposed to know that? It's just stupid. I'm not usually a complainer, but THAT'S A FUCKING COP OUT. Why woman can't have babies is important, dammit.
-
cmon man PUT YOUR DICK IN HER MOUTH ALREADY
-
just trying to think if jack and richard alpert have actually ever met each other? off the top of my head can't think of a time
-
Ben faces his own demise (if I remember correctly). Facing your demise is not the same as dying. I agree, he lives. Another few episodes anyway.
And yeah, Alex is hot. Love the blue eyes. -
Mar 09, 2010 8:24:24 PM CST
Alex wants to fuck her Ben! I think Ben wants it as well!
by hollywoodhellraiser
Don't blame him if his thoughts are impure!
-
Also correct!
-
hmmmmmm
-
Awesome.
-
is so calm about those diamond!
-
...and the buried money..???
-
Seriously she was getting all kinds of hot in that scene! Ben should have made a moved!
-
great line w nikki and paolo
-
and Miles knows about Nikki and Paolo because he's standing over their graves
-
dead minds? that's how he knew???
-
Tania Raymonde who plays Alex is 22 years old and she dated 57 year old Jeff Goldblum (true story)
-
thanks! i knew they must of, but it was kind of escaping me when
-
Always a rat, right Dr Linus.
-
Fucking tool!
-
i wouldnt make such a neat grave, just sayin
-
GOONIES NEVER SAY DIE
-
Take That WHINERS!
-
Goodbye to lame-o Richard!
-
Kaboom Richard. Tossed salad like Artz!
-
wow, maybe an answer!!
-
Jacob didn't tell him shit.
-
Just sayin'.
-
he cant kill himself but someone else can? dynamite might do the trick..
-
to dig that grave.
-
You guys are fooling yourselves w/ getting answers from Richard. He's not going to say anthing of signifcance sadly.
-
So he was on the Black Rock. It's not surprising but it is disappointing and kinda lame.
-
I"m going to kill the producers when it's all said and done.
-
so that scene fell flat!
-
You Fuckers should have Quit Watching A Long Time Ago.
-
Really.
-
LOL!!!!
-
Ben is indeed a bastard. In any reality.
-
Where's the Boob-Cam when You need it?
-
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORUNS
-
Aaaaaaand Ben is redeemed?
-
.......to add to his collection. good stuff!!
-
is one hell of an actor
-
Impure thoughts again....
-
It will all be stupid cliche pandering if he sacrifice himself. You know it will happen.
-
if he wasn't a lying SOB!!!
-
She's f-ing the principal.
-
Muahahahahahahaha!
-
oh shit....its WHITMORE!!!
-
that is all
-
Season one. Top 5 episode.
-
Mar 09, 2010 8:59:51 PM CST
Not loving these happy ending! Where the deaths and chaos!
by hollywoodhellraiser
Shit I guess they needed something happy to offset the badass Sayid goes on a killing spree episode!
-
widmores death sub has arrived
-
I really did not think this season could get worse, but it is.
-
wild card bitches!
-
Until Jacob dies? All these unwritten rules are so confusing.
-
Cue Whining
-
Fuck the naysayers.
-
Okay, could someone help me. When we first were introduced to Miles, when he had been hired by the gang-bangers mother, when he was upstairs in the bedroom...didn't he actually communicate with said gang-banger. Didn't Miles ask him where he hid some money and then he heard a noise, and went right to the wall where it was hidden. That sorta conflicts what he told Elena, right?
-
Richard, Jack, and dynamite scene is one of the series' best.
-
Periscope Guy: "Sir, Ben Linus is on the beach!"
Widmore: "Stop the Sub! I'm Getting off here! Someone get me my guns!" -
fuck this episode. FUCK IT. Again, they use that shitty slo mo to tell us that something significant is happening though - BLATANTLY - nothing fucking is. This show has become irredeemably lame. Expect more lame sidebar excuses from Darlton in interviews for the next 10 weeks. SHIT. And to think I used to love this show. Jesub.
-
Is Widmore Smokey's RIDE Off the Island?
-
Jacob and Laban?
-
Why would he want to tell people the extent of his powers? The less they know about what he can do the better for him. He didn't need to hold a piece of Nikki or Paolo's remains to find them diamonds, now did he?
-
i mean there were two options, dig a grave so you can be killed and buried in it or refuse to dig and be killed anyway. i woulda just told her to go fuck herself and have a fun dig after i'm dead. as for the episode itself, it was pretty cool. too bad whidmore's reveal wasn't a surprise since his name was in the opening credits.
-
Wikipedia-Laban can be seen as symbolizing those whose concern for the welfare of their immediate family, nominally a virtue, is taken to the point where it has lasting negative ramifications. Laban's normal urge to ensure his older daughter not be left unmarried can be interpreted as leading to the Exile in Egypt; his anxiety over seeing his son-in-law throw away his family's comfortable position in Aram in search of a risky new beginning back in Canaan leads him to oppose the return of the Children of Israel to the Promised Land.[1] His name can also be seen as symbolic in this matter: it means "white", the visual representation of purity, without visible stain, symbolizing those without apparent evil motives whose actions nevertheless result in undesirable outcomes.
-
exactly
-
...didnt I Vader?
-
Hey guess what? It paid off. Ben lives while you'd be dead in the ground. The lesson here: get busy diggin', or get busy dyin'.
-
wow!
-
Digging a grave buys time though. And you know Ben's brain is always working.
Which reminds me, I really miss the Ben that could talk his way out of anything. I really liked the resolution of the episode with him, but I hope we get to see awesome Ben again, instead of just pathetic Ben for the rest of the season until he probably eventually dies anyway. -
As I predicted, you look like gullible retards now.
-
The Jacob and Jack thing is boring me to tears and I could care less!
-
Whatever happened to ass kicking Ben? Remember the one that beat the bejeezus out of some guys in the desert?
-
Structurally this was a great episode. Great performances, great dialogue, great scenes between characters. The alt-timeline stuff was a great story. However, I've been judging this season based on how much further the story has progressed from the start of the episode to the end, and what'd we see change today. Jack, Hurly and Richard joining the people on the beach. Jack and therefore the rest of the candidates can't kill themselves. Yeah, not exactly ground breaking story progress, as opposed to last week when we saw the temple's residents wiped out. Of course we do know unLocke is headed towards the other island, and Richard is back, but that last part was more of a cliffhanger than actual canon of today's episode. So yeah, great actor's/writer's episode, but as far as the shows mythology I wanted more out of a season 6 episode.
-
and then not follow through?
Anyone have the answer? other than a big cock tease -
I don't know if that's intentional or not, but he was creeping me out in that scene with Richard, rofl.
-
...he was unsuicidable...
-
Anybody agree?
-
This is my first ever post on AICN, though I've been a reader here for the past 7-8 years or so. I've never felt the need to post on a talkback until tonight.
Here's the deal: I really think that there's a segment of the people on here that are ROOTING for Lost to fail. I just don't see how else there could be so much negativity regarding this season. Has it been perfect? Nope, but it seems that anything less than perfection by Darlton and Cuse means utter failure.
Personally, this season has been all about putting the chess pieces in place for the checkmate... the addition of answering some of our long-awaited questions has been a bonus.
We need to keep in mind that we have 6-7 hours worth of storyline left... everyone needs to just relax and enjoy the ride. -
...if the FSs turn out to be the good outcome of the reg reality, Ill be a bit disappointed... but fuck yea TEAM BEN IN BOTH REALITIES BITCHS...
-
Okay, here it is - Widmore is on Jacob's side, always has been. We've established that neither Widmore nor Ben can kill each other, just as Jacob and UnLocke can't kill each other, just as Dogen couldn't kill Sayid. Those directly recruited or "touched" (not physically, but selected somehow) by one side or the other cannot kill each other. Now, Ben has been lied to for a long time by the Smoke Monster...I'm sure that posing as Jacob it told Ben that Widmore had gone to the dark side. Ben could not kill Widmore, so he exiled him from the island, banished him, whatever the process was, Ben pushed him off. At that point, Widmore realized that Ben was under the influence of Smokey, perhaps deducing it, perhaps some other direct form of knowledge we don't yet know...but he knew that Ben would be instrumental in Smokey's plan to get rid of Jacob. NOW...it's clear that Smokey needs other people to actually escape the Island...he's not recruiting Sawyer and trying to get Alpert just for good fellowship...he NEEDS company to get off the island. It therefore makes sense that Widmore, appearing to be evil, was actually trying to save Jacob and keep Smokey contained. He knew that Ben was a big part of Smokey's plan to kill Jacob. Thus he sent his team in with instructions - either get Linus off the island, ruining Smokey's plan, OR, failing that, kill everyone on the island, no exceptions. Since the Smoke Monster cannot escape alone, that would also contain him. A more drastic solution, but a solution nonetheless. And that's what's going on.
-
When he sat down with Richard and was like "let's talk now"...it brought back some of my love of Jack from Season 1....before he got boring and pointless. This episode was the best so far this season. Michael Emerson is like the god of acting. Had an emo tear running down my cheek when he talked about Alex to Ilana. Side story was brilliant too.
-
They never said that Ben dies. That was just people who didn't listen to what was said and then came bitching. All it said was that he would face death, not die.
-
WHERE did Jacob touch Richard? :P
-
I mustof not been watching closely
shame on me, i should know better with lost by now -
Jack (holding a doll): "OK Richard. Show me where Jacob touched you."
-
who found that speech slightely homo erotic lol.
all n all decent episode. Ben is in deep shite with Widmore arriving -
so i just thought of this and i never posted but i thought that i start now...anyways i was just thinking that how does widmore fit into all this and then it hit me...yes he has to be on jacobs side. the reason? he wanted to help the oceanic six BACK to the island but he didnt want John to die at all. think about this, the canidates were all part of the oceanic six, and widmore (working for jacob) was seeing it that they all got back, ALL OF THEM! including locke!!! so of course widmore didnt want locke to die...at the time we didnt know who to believe and we were led to believe widmore was this big bad guy but in reality (as replicant said) was that widmore knew ben was tainted and was trying to get back to the island to prevent smokie from escaping. killing everyone was a last resort of sorts in that even though all the canidates would be dead, at least smokie would be still stuck on the island, and then the whole process can just repeat itself with new canidates...or something like that. but after the 6 got off the island widmore was working to get them back (he also prob wanted to get back as well, the island being his home and all) and it certainly meant that everyone needed to live including our good friend john locke. it actually makes a lot of sense right now but i am sure within the next two episodes that theory will be shot to hell but it seems to all fit...any comments?
-
His delivery of that line is some of the most powerfully emotional shit I've ever seen. And I'm proud to say that I shed a tear. Ben-centric episodes are always the best. Now the real question is who else might be on that sub? Eloise? Desmond? As for how Widmore found the island, I think that's a very easy answer, although one not easily (and therefore won't be) explained: the same way Eloise knew about the Ajira flight. Sometimes you just have to go with the flow. By the end of the series, all questions CAN be answered. By us. It's called interpretation. God forbid a narrative require actual thought.
-
what is great about this show is how i just deconstructed my own argument that widmore is good because i realized a few things....widmore could just be lying to locke about not wanting him dead, he could very well be part of the plan to get smokie free (see brahm aka shadow of shadow people try to get miles away from widmore) widmore very well could had been using locke to get the canidates back to the island then have whats his face kill him then send them all back...then again i find it hard to believe that both eloise and widmore are working against the best interests of the island unless they uncovered some down low dirty stuff about jacob and they turned their backs to him (they very well could had been the ones tainted by the MIB). however then that doesnt explain why he wants to kill everyone and steal ben cause killing everyone would simply ruin smokies plans...yah idk im sure it will become clear int he next few episodes (been saying that for five years now!) haha love the show!!
-
First off...Mario Van Peeples is da muthafuckin MAN! One of the most beautifully shot & sequenced episodes of LOST in a long while. That early night time scene in the jungle, with Miles reading Jacob's last thoughts...best use of torchlight ever on the show, IMO. Shooting from behind the cabinet as Ben stored Roger's empty oxygen tank was another remarkable shot that caught my eye. Nice job, New Jack!
Speaking on "New Jack"...when he lit that stick in 'the Rock'...and then SAT DOWN for a chat with Richard?...My faith was restored in that dude big time. I think he's finally figurin it out.
Alpert sure was admiring 'those chains' wasn't he? Case closed. Not a cyborg...a slave....from the 1800's. Loved seeing that ship again...altho...I don't think it will be the last time we see it. (More on that later)...
Dr. Benjiman Linus...had an 'adoptive' nature in the sideways world, too. This by far was the best episode (harkening back to Season 1) where the on island story paralelled the flashes so perfectly. Arzt's 'sweater vest' line cracked me the fuck up..."You're a killer"! Thought for sure we were gonna see Leslie vaporized again....by his antiquated 1950's science equipment. Sideays world had me fooled...Ben makes a promise to Alex...then breaks it...then the power play for the prinicipal gig. Had me fooled that Dr. Linus did 'the right thing' in the end by choosing Alexandra's education over his need for power. Michael Emerson's speech to Ilana about his regret over letting Alex die will surely get him nominated again for another Emmy.
Funny, the entire time he was digging his own grave...he had the means to save his skin with Ilana...all it took was lil visit from UnLocke. Factoring in Alpert's disgust with Jacob...Anybody else convinced MIB ain't 'the bad guy' here?
Speakin of graves...glad Nikki & Paulo finally 'paid off' for someone. You go, grave robbin, Miles!
So...will the "I WANT ANSWERS" babies be cryin about THIS episode, too? My guess...is YES...but not as loudly.
Anyways...What a fitting tribute to what will likely by the last 'centric' episodes of one of the best characters ever created for television. Dr. Benjiman Linus.
Now...we all saw the island...sunk at the bottom of the sea in the season opener...(Hmmmm....wonderin if that sub Widdy is tooling around in has any 'island sinking' technology on board?)...But it occurs to me...that SHOULD the island sink at the end of the season...what's the one thing that might float everyone to safety?
Ahoy, Capt. Magnus Hanso! Will yer rickety old boat sail everyone off into the sunset afterall?
I know a good sailor who could drive it...Desmond Wallace...er...I mean...Hume?
[POOM]
-
It assumes that Widmore knows what's going on, knows what candidates are and all that. And ilana knows and has known all along. It also means that other people (possibly all the others?) also know all this: The Oceanic people are all secret candidates to take over Jacobs' very important secret job and it's so secret no one who really knows anything can tell the people involved why they're on the island or what Jacob wants them to do, so these very important secret candidates keep doing stupid things that just make everything worse for everyone. Why didn't Widmore, or Richard, or Jacob himself just tell them what's going on?? Heck, now that Jack has seen the lighthouse, he's seen the ligh! He's on board, he's ready to do whatever. They could have saved themselves six years and a lot of people dying if they just explained this stuff. Would've made getting the six back easier.
It's just like x files: there's plenty of people that know what's going on, but they can never tell the main characters because they're "not ready to hear the truth" or something. Having said that, I'm really enjoying this season. -
...cup of television.
-
You're missing the primary piece in the puzzle that came through tonight's episode: the redemption of Ben Linus. He chose to head back to the beach instead of going with Flocke and the potential for power. Same decision he made in the Alt-Reality: choosing the people he cares about (Alex) instead of the power grab. I thought this was the best ep yet this year.
-
I keep going back and forth. Right now I am leaning towards Widmore = team MIB and helped MIB become Locke. Was kinda hoping to hear the "rules" for the Widemore/Ben game mentioned in season 4, I think... ?!
-
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Once the Emperor is revealed to have no clothes, he has no more power. Look how he tries to continue to lie and manipulate to no avail; everyone knows his game and they're not playing. And yet we see that deep within there still lies a spark of good. In the alternate reality we saw him try to become the master manipulator in a bid to amass power... but he could not do it at the expense of his favorite student's future. And on the Island we saw that he had the chance to kill Ilana, to escape, to get "control of the Island" that was offered to him by Smokey. But he refused. And in the end we saw that all Ben ever wanted was, well just to BE wanted. And when Jack and Hurley arrived on the beach, he looked like such a sad sack standing there, shoulders hunched, knowing that neither one of them would come shake his hand or say "nice to see you". And for that I felt bad for him.
-
First the can talk to ghosts, then he needs the body to do it, then he can't talk to ashes, but tonight he can? Man who dropped the ball on the continuity there? I have a hard time believing that the script supervisor and the actor wouldn't remember previous episodes, so there's GOT to be an explanation. All they had to do was give Miles a line that said "I can't with cremated remains, it has to be a body." Then Ilana forces him to try anyway, and Miles succeeds. Then he says "There's something different about this one, though." Boom, problem solved!! Unless, of course in the previous episode, Miles COULD read the ashes but didn't want to tell the father the truth of what the son felt. So he lied about what the son said. Then lied and told the dad he couldn't read it anyway. I guess that's the explanation.
-
In the first scene where we met him, he had that funky machine that boosted his powers and created a paranormal bridge. On his own, he can only do what he said tonight.
-
Didn't someone say it would change him or he would never be the same? It seems in this episode Ben isn't really under any supernatural or superscience influences. He just has some human weaknesses that made an ugly combo with his manipulative abilities. I wouldn't mind him staying on the side of the angels til the end but I hope he stays devious.
-
As did a few others. I may have as well. Though I thought it'd be Des or Walt. But really, Widmore made the most sense. Where's he headed? Hydra Island? To hook up with Smokey? They made a point in the previous episode's POP UP VIDEO to mention that Widmore told Locke a war was coming and if he wasn't on the Island the wrong side was gonna win....
-
Um, don't think those were ashes, lol, unless that fire was way hotter than it looked...
-
if Widmore turns out to be helping Jacob that just further confirms my thoughts that Jacob's a douche. Remember why Ben defied Widmore's orders? Widmore said Jacob wanted Rousseau and her child dead. And what about Dogen? How is his deal any worse than what we suspect MIB's deals end up as? Jacob healed his son and in return Dogen had to abandon him and never see him again. Wouldn't the good guy have just healed Dogen's son if he could.
Don't know if MIB is really supposed to be the villain and Jacob the good guy, but if you look at their actions, I don't see how you can consider Jacob any better. -
On the way home I remembered it and that's how I reconciled it before. I just forgot it instantly once I started writing here at home, thought. Good looking out zacdilone.
-
So no dead Locke, team Jacob wins... so Widmore = team MIB?!
-
I'd be her after-school tutor for sure.
-
"Nothing on this Island stays buried for long." So true, Locke. So true.
-
Being told there was a plan, seeing it all crumble and losing faith, only to see a spark that maybe, just maybe in the end, there IS a plan afterall... a metaphor for all the haters out there?
-
i hear you, i just think it makes the most sense in a way that even though it makes no sense that some of these people dnt talk, i think whatever game jacob is playing required a whole bunch of secrecy in order to make sure someone else couldnt manipulate what was happening. now that i think of it, ben seemed to the be only leader who never spoke directly to jacob...jacob kept making him wait...but their is a chance that widemore got to speak to jacob, hense knows more about these plans than richard (and was just told not to tell richard by jacob...why? cause that would make the show less mysterious haha). on jack: obviously it looks like whatever jacob intended jack to do is happening and the man is taking the bull by the horns now. again a lot of trouble could be saved by just explaining to these people what is going on but i think in jacobs own little way he needs these people to come to the decision themselves (even though he is manipulating events to lead them to have to make the choice...the important thing for jacob is that when confronted with the choice they make it on their own). thats just my feeling cause otherwise this whole show wouldnt make sense...like i said any theory can still be shot to hell by the richard albert centric episode i feel.
-
Or being manipulated by him. Or in the end, while not being anti-Jacob per se just has goals completely different from Jacob's. Thus making him the wrong side.
-
... ended up blowing him up by the episode's end.
-
anybody got a link or stream?
thanks -
Mar 09, 2010 10:25:29 PM CST
Confirmation Alpert was on the Black Rock in chains= AWESOME
by d.vader
And he hasn't been there since he got out! Interesting!
-
And I loved it! I miss the happy endings from Seasons 1-3. I still wish Ben got a handshake from Jack, though. Come on Doc, he got you back to the Island! Don't be a douche, you're on your way to being enlightened! And then of course, we STILL got a twist in the end!
-
I'd suggest googling it. Or wait until it pops up online tomorrow on ABC.com or Hulu.
-
...that there are some posters and others who are rooting for Lost to fail, and it's annoying.
On the other hand, it's also pretty clear that there are some people who are going to attribute deep meaning to any shit they shovel at us. I mean, I just watched an episode that was mostly about Ben Linus attempting to manipulate his way into becoming principal of the high school, and some people on here are calling it top 5??? I'm not even sure it's one of the five best episodes with Arzt on it. -
not up yet! Thanks anyway
-
There was never any rule saying whoever left the Island COULDN'T come back. What Ben meant was "it'll move and I'll never find it again, so I can't come back." Widmore could never find it until Season 4. But he had to send the Mercs to get rid of Ben and allow him to come back. He WAS exiled after all. Then the Island moved AGAIN. But Eloise found a way to get there. That's why he's here now. It has nothing to do with rules, I'm betting.
-
"Structurally this was a great episode. Great performances, great dialogue, great scenes between characters. The alt-timeline stuff was a great story. However, I've been judging this season based on how much further the story has progressed from the start of the episode to the end, and what'd we see change today."I think that just about sums up the most nutso way some people watch this show. "I loved this episode. Everything was terrific. However according to my Progress Chart, not enough happened so therefore it is a failure." Weird! (no offense)
-
"He's the only one that'll have me." Bravo Michael Emerson.
-
I'd dig and use the time to try and find a way out. I just can't believe Sun and Lapidus and Miles were so cool with what was about to happen.
-
If his pre-suicide attempt speech wasn't written with one eye on grousing fans, I'll eat my hat.
-
I guessed the whole time that it was going to end with Ilana deciding not to shoot Ben, putting her gun down, and then all of a sudden a bullet hits Ben and the camera turns to reveal ... Sawyer.
I was wrong, obviously, but it does raise the question: what in the hell happened to Sawyer? -
I guess my focus wasn't on Ben because we haven't seen him much this season, but when you put it like that I realize how much did happen in this ep, thanks
-
What the flip Uncle Rico!
-
Like actually explode? For a second... yeah, I kinda did.
-
Linus to get that bullet in the end still. Smokey is definitely the clever Tempter, and Jacob is like the wise sensei who let's the pupil both ask and answer all the questions for himself, with a little nudge, here and there. It's still hard to reconcile some of Jacob's more obtuse, overt machinations, but I think Smokey has definitely shown his true colors many times.
-
My thoughts... maybe Widmore gives the sub to all of nuLocke's Flock to leave... and then it's just him trying to retake the island vs Jack and whoever... Kate will not go, have a big fight with Claire and survive, and AWOL Sawyer will probably come back to side with Jack unexpectedly... and be redeemed.
-
It doesn't say Van Peebles on the IMDB page? It says the same guy who directed last week. Anyone wonder if they are going to try to get some more high profile directors in these last 10? I mean granted seems like Van Peeb is just doing work for hire now with TV. He's directed a couple of Sons of Anarchy I'd like to see him put himself in that show.
-
Interesting. Ben has a good relationship with his dad in the alt-timeline, and his dad wanted Ben to have a good life. So they joined DHARMA. But they left and the Island is now sunk? WHY? HOW? Interesting revelation nontheless!
-
Going boom-boom bc of his old equipment. Drat =)!
-
The one who wants to protect children, the one who is invested in their futures.
-
I still believe Widmore is evil. He was hanging out with a dude called Abaddon--a name that means angel of death, and is synonymous with Apollyon.
"APOLLYON, or, as it is literally in the margin of the AV of Revelation 9:11, "a destoyer," is the rendering of the Hebrew word Abaddon, "the angel of the bottomless pit."
[And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.--Rev 9:11]"
Apollo is also the name of a certain candy bar on LOST? Am I correct. Their are clues hidden everywhere. THE man in black is APOllyon! And Widmore is trying to help him. Just my two cents
-
Mar 09, 2010 10:51:44 PM CST
The answers are coming tonight!
by hercthinksentourageisbetterthanarrestedd
Or next week! Or the week after! Or never! Hooray!
-
Mar 09, 2010 10:52:58 PM CST
Did Widmore find the island because he has Faraday...
by annie the pod racer
onboard as a hostage?
-
The first one showed us the childhood of Ben Linus, our first glimpse into his previous life. We saw the remorse he had when the DHARMA Initiative was wiped out. The second one showed us his powerful acting ability as he watched Alex gunned down before him. And it was the first time I ever felt sorry for him. The third one showed Ben being judged by Smokey and showing remorse for Alex's death. It showed us that Ben didn't kidnap Alex for evil, but to protect her from harm. And we learned that due to his childhood, he feels for children and their mothers. And this one showed Ben broken and sad. The truth is that he just wanted to be wanted. Great stuff all around.
-
They're gonna need that boat when the island sinks, brutha!
-
Mar 09, 2010 10:55:06 PM CST
So does this end the Ilana spoiler ..that some here hint of.
by macfaux
Ilana is not... in point of fact, Jacob's daughter. Pa? Do you concede?
-
For my money this was the best episode of the season. You got some legitimate development for Richard and Ben, plus the full-on Jack monster at his craziest. Anyone who thinks Sayid is acting nuts needs to review their Jack history; the man is unbalanced. His idea of a happy ending is a divorce and perhaps and eventual conversation with his child for crying out loud. It was nice to see him make a decision and display a little confidence. Plus, Widmore has arrived. Where was Desmond? He was in the credits I must've missed him.
-
Every week. Doesn't matter if he shows up or not.
-
I just remembered seeing his name and expecting to see him...I am usually packing the bowl during the early phase of the show.
-
That in the end, he was thinking and hoping, just before he was stabbed, that maybe he was wrong about Ben? That maybe Ben wasn't what, a total washout? That he hadn't succumbed to evil? I think that was an important part to make considering his attempts at redeeming himself here.
-
Yes its the start of the second act for the final season; its a new arc.
-
Sailing away on the Black Rock. That's a cool image.
-
He's a man, a man who has lived a very long time. He once lost someone he loved. Now he has a job to do on the Island for all time. He's the security system. Almost like Dogen's story, no?
-
Not an important "part". Argh.
-
I was called away and missed if there was an explanation for them leaving the island in the alt time line. Did they leave when the island was evacuated? Before the nuke blew or after? Did they show this last season? I don't remember. I think the last time we saw Roger Linus he shot Sayid. Then he and Ben disappeared for the rest of the finale, I think.
-
Ya know that fish movie that Stephen Spotzberg put together that some kids like? Ya know who he wanted to play Quint and deliver one of the greatest movie monologues in the history of cinema?
Ya. I don't mean Sterling Hayden.
That's right
Lee Marvin.
And he would have been better...
Shock and Awe! Shaka Khan! Shake and Bake!
...That just happened!
-
Nothing yet. But Pappa Linus didn't seem like the old, angry Linus and seemed to remember the Island and the DHARMA Initiative fondly.
-
JAKA...idiot (who knew?)...umm of course lostBOY...AND THE NEW BECOMING OF DUMASSESNESS...Spud McIdiot (and a order of fries please)and Rosasaks ( wow didnt have to make fun of that). AWESOME AWESOME enlightenment guys!!!! nice shoutout for DICKHEAD too...cant make this shit up if i tried lol. whats the deal with the Remember Me TB STEPDAD??let me guess um that tb, and u, dont like religion??? SHOCK!!!!
-
i was watching "Walkabout" just to days ago when I noticed something I hadn't before and it about knocked me out of my chair. during the ep,at the end of the flashback scene with Locke and his asshole boss, Locke says his trademark "don't tell me what I can't do", and cut to black. as they cut to black you hear quite prominently the sound of Locke's adding machine. and that sound is the single iteration of the sound that the smoke monster makes continuously as it creeps about. i am now utterly convinced they new Locke would end up as Smokey from the VERY BEGINNING. hot damn.
-
LOVE JACK!!! oh yea ummm...fuck all the same peeps i dont like lol.
-
Not in the same way as you FEATURE and CONJURE. cause..as I typed (honking own horn)... Ajira 316 is the exit strategy. But you strike on some deep vein of potential gold there.
Imagine if this whole 'Shen' loop starts with the remnants of the Black Rock we see beached on the Island NOW, come washing ashore on Madagascar THEN..with a certain Lostie, Tailie, Freightie, or..shhhh... Combie.. on board. Way back when. Awesome. The Journal. Was, is, and shall be again. That's all I am sayin. Well done.
Ps. just GIGGED ya above. Ya know, for the kids. -
Mar 09, 2010 11:28:17 PM CST
The pieces are set for the final showdown: ISLAND vs ISLAND!
by d.vader
Anyone else notice that? And does FLocke expect to leave by Ajira flight 316 or what? I guess he's got Captain Walker on his side or something.
-
Too lazy to go through the entire talkback, but just wanted to say I'm really enjoying Ilana's huge tits. Enjoyed seeing them out on display in ROME, still love them even though covered on LOST.
-
Like Harry, I have seen the Runaways live..and Dammmmmmn. Joan Larkin still rocks!
I hate myself for loving you.. Leno. -
well, i'm convinced.
-
"No he cared.."
"Right up until the second the knife went through his heart he was hoping he was wrong about you..." -
I was watching walkabout a couple weeks ago and I noticed the same thing about Locke's adding machine...I started a thread on IMDB and noone seemed to care
-
...everyone is discussin my theory i said 2-3 weeks ago bout Widdy workin for Jacob... i feel smarts ...
-
i hate the first 3 hrs?? of these talkbacks......and bears can smell menstruation....
-
just a regular...umm "fan"? good reasoning on ur part overall. doesnt mean its correct but, at least ur TRYING to watch unlike the first 3/4 of the talkback. u have been upgraded to a SEMI-idiot...good job brotha...
-
are the same dooodes. Oh what, wait a minute. I get it. You are ..oh. ok. Man, that is so foooooony! Brilliant!
I just don't get the self-reinforcing logins.. I mean, I really don't. why. Why? What is the point. How insecure do you have to be to have multiple logins on AICN.
That's like sayin.."Hey, everybody, i am big giant Loser on a big giant loser fan-boy board...but I. I. I am the tallest Loser!" (sorry, Harry)
Shit. Well, done. Ya drew me off sides there.. you are all on the list, man. Trolls. But droll. bonnie britches. -
I loved the reunion at the end and how Ben redeemed himself and saved Alex this time and the moment between him and Ilana. Also the dynomite scene with Richard and Jack was great also!
-
Actually laughed a few times during this ep, I liked that. Liked the flow of the episode overall, too. Mario did a good job. Sides are lining up; both groups of people, and islands. Wonder where Widmore will end up, or what havoc he'll wreak? (Could he actually be the cause of the sinkage?) I don't actually believe that Sayid will stay on the Locke side. Although, that's his nature, so it's possible, I suppose. There's no way Kate will stay there, though. Nice touch that Richard ended up on The Beach Side (would have like to see Jacob give Hurly a message for Richard at some point). I'm still not sure that Ben won't turn again before the season is over, either. He's proven to be a liar over and over, and he just admitted power is his weakness. I think if he believes that he could become the new "Jacob" that he may switch teams, or go down with the ship. How the hell does Sun stay looking so clean and beautiful? I still find the LA X time meetings to be forced and contrived. But it would appear (finally) that what they're about is the islanders changing their stripes. Kate, Jack and now Ben have all helped people other than themselves now. It appears that's what Sayid is going to do as well. Locke is slowly becoming happy. Hurley isn't cursed and is evidently quite successful. I still think LA X time is the end of the series. I think that's where we'll be for the last scene(s) of the show, after the "battle" sinks the islands. After all, if the island(s) are sunk, there doesn't need to be a new "Jacob".
-
I know this is off-topic, but Variety is reporting Fox has canceled "24": tinyurl.com/yaq5zng
-
I nether agree with or against that point about Ilana. Its looking more and more like its false since that revelation was supposed to happen back during the 3rd hour, but you never know.
-
But I believe there was rumors of this before the season even started. Apparently because they're planning a movie. ?? That's what I remember reading (here), anyway.
-
So we're still not to the middle. Interesting. I'm really interested in seeing where they go after the middle season downturn towards the end of the series.
-
Do they really matter anymore? It seems like they don't. Many characters have done things this season that wouldn't previously have been possible, or likely at any rate. I'm OK with throwing everything in the pot right now so long as it's leading somewhere, and it seems like it is.
-
finally glad we got some answers.
-
http://tinyurl.com/SmithDumb
ƒ¨ç˚ ¥ø¨
"".As to A) Señor Hurley bought 78 seats on Ajira 316..never featured that it was only and primarily about savin average folk from a fate on the Island.. Howse about that somehow Hurley knew/knows..those seats will be needed. Cause, mi freunds, that beautimous 737-700er is on the ground and intact. 737-700..800, hmm, whatever it takes..and that bit is not so important, as the TPTB booted that bit of writin anyway as the range to Guam from LAX is over 5200 nm and no 737 a wing and about and stripped down and with extra fuel tanks has any range more than 5500 nm or an ETOPS (Engines Turnin Or Passengers Swimmin) of more than 180 mins..which means no Trans-Pacific flights..which means...I rambley digress..The 737-700 has 126 pax seats in 2 class config (which it was)..and Hurley bought 78 empty seats. How many passengers would thus be on A316? 48. How many flashed off to '77? 4. Leaving 44 excluding Lapidus and Locke, da? How many survivors of 815? yep..and how many from the tail section joined up? yep. How many pilots lived..and then died? yep. How many re-animated corpses? yep. So, fate or the other thing? hmmmmm. And all that is just Doc numbery fun stuff. Cause the point is..AT some point..in the near future episodes..people are going to turn that plane to, load up, and fly high like an eagle off the Island..in the nick of ..well, time. just sayin.""
May 7th, 2009, 01:22:18 AM
how bout that, Mr. Smith. Don't bother, your on the list. -
and shit shrapnel by dinner time. Sometimes I'm glad 1st choices are overlooked.
Kinda glad Michael Keaton wasn't willing to commit to a long stay in Hawaii as Jack on LOST. -
when Roger said some comment about what kind of person Ben would have been if they hadden't left the island Ben turns on the air tank on old Rogers Oxygen tank reminding up just what Ben would have done to him!
-
Is the one Jacob said needed to be shown how to get to the island im more then likely wrong but Jacob said im sure whoever it is will find a way im so wrong i know it lol
-
...the Lost folk hit this one out of the park. If you ain't on board with Ben's redemption, the Black Rock, Artz, Alpert, the sub and Widmore - go fuck yourself. GREAT hour of television.
-
But, what must a man do to get some of your fantastic art done on Dogen.
I miss your Art, Pa. Or was that all Rizzo's? very confused. Dogen! -
Big hole in the co-pilot window, for 1.
I theorized long ago that Ajira might be their saving ticket off the island...that a frantic last minute rush to plunder the only parts of 815 that didn't burn up or sink...i.e; the Captain's quarters & components...will be crucial to getting that plane back off the ground.
Why do you think Frank Lapidus had to come back to the island? Somebody has to save some asses. That's why. But...he'll need 815's help to do it. -
on Bram and Illana's candidate question of 'ol Frank...
-
Because I don't believe anybody is getting off the island. If they do there had better be a stellar explanation for what's going on in LA X time.
-
hmmmm....
-
and the way he delivered the line "why Locke? Because he's the only one who'll have me" was just massively awesome acting. Wonder what Jack and Alpert talked about! Jack is starting to believe, Neo style! He may have restored Alpert's faith in the island Surprise Widmore in the sub! So does it mean whoever Jacob touched can't kill themselves?
-
im SURE ur going to be VERY DISAPPOINTED YET AGAIN...with something...
-
No, but not because it wasn't great acting. It definitely was. But I didn't get emotional because I just don't believe a word that comes out of Island Ben Linus' mouth. Not one single word. I have complete faith that he'll backstab as many people as possible before seasons end if he believes he can "win".
-
Rizzo has been doing stuff on the main page, advertisements for his great NY Meet-Ups. My art is on the Muses page. I did finally finish Libby and Im currently cleaning up Penny and designing Jacob, MIB and Eloise. Its hard to get to though since my On-Line store is keeping me very busy making cards and sketchbooks. Dogen is on my definate To_Do list though. Good things come to those who wait.
-
"wanna try another stick?"
oh man that was 33 flavours of AWESOME! Linus' ALT story was easily the most interesting - and the parallel with LOCKE being the one who tempts him in both... er.. iterations...
and I *still* cannot tell if MIB is full of shit or forreal - jus seems like it can go either way - still...
everyone who was worried about Walt being too grown up to make a final season return - did anyone actually buy (smokin hot) Alex as a high school history geek?
not that I'm complainin
so I guess Ben was MIB's "candidate" huh - if you choose to believe anything he says?
was wondering about the return of The Wid the whole episode - glad it wasn't ALT-Wid, which would have been pretty damn confusing I think - he's still being portrayed pretty ominously, tho I'm still not convinced he's one of the "bad guys" but I guess we'll find out soon enough...
hey so if Jacob's Touch is a "gift" of some kind of immortality - does that mean our surviving "candidates" must behead each other?
-and is that why Michael was so hard to kill - was he touched by Jacob too? -
these trolls-- albeit some with decent BITCH typing-- are getting very ANNOYING...
-
Nah, Alex didn't look high schoolish, really. Especially after that little blond girl wanked by in one of the latter scenes. I think Ben Linus looks WAY more disturbing without the glasses. I actual new a couple teachers who looked a bit like him with the glasses on. Regarding Jacob "touching" Richard; do we generally believe that was meant in a literal sense? Like, "he put his hand on my shoulder and now I can't die"? I took it to be a metaphor for something with a greater meaning than a literal touch.
-
Right side scroll down a bit
http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/ -
Well Darlton has made a big point in their podcasts that Jacob did touch all of the main castaways and how important that was.
-
I'm sure this has been covered before, but in light of some discussions above on Jacob's nature, thought I'd weigh in with some definitions of the name Jacob:
The literal Hebrew means "heel" or "leg puller" and is derived from the Biblical Jacob's birth account, when he literally was born grasping his brother Esau's heel. Over time, the name has been translated as "he who supplants," "deceiver" and interestingly, "he who trips up another and takes his place." Good guy? Doesn't sound like it, necessarily ... -
His direction on Damages was good and I'm impressed with what he did tonight.
-
Thanks. Interesting point. They made a point of re-showing some of those "touchings" from the "meetings" ep last season. Hmmm. So if it's a literal interpretation, do we have a list of how many people have been touched? Does anybody think Ben would count?
-
...because he exists in the LA X time flash sideways?
-
The guy has done pretty much everything there is to do. His problem has always been shaking the B-list tag. I hope working on Lost, Damages and Law & Order will help with that. The guy has definitely been working hard to get there for a very long time.
-
Right on.
However. I can't help but wonder what the 'Sideways' casting might have yielded. Marvin and Keaton.
Fun remem'd thought about how that is the thinking of the once and future is it not.
Bout 20 years ago, i bought an Ensoniq, I told an old friend, guitar player, rock star, you'd know him (I'm such a starfucker) ..that it, the music bid-nizz was comin full circle and going back to singles..that folk would buy the song, and not the band. That folk would be able, thanks to tech, be able to cobble and paste together 'music' ..such that it is And few would really know anything about it or be able to play an instrument.. That it would no longer be about musicians and all about producers.
He laughed. I bought Apple @ 4 bucks a share..
Flash forward a few years ..Henry Rollins is doin his Tai-whatever, man-yoga in a marked off space where no one was allowed to talk to him.. chit chat chit chat.. same thing.. I got the eyebrows and the head tilt and my point is..S1m0ne. Writ common and for the PS5 or Xbox 1440.
It is going to be the same such going forward for movies and TV and I don't think it so bad. Indistinguishable, Photo-realistic fun. Just like 'guitar hero' but, ya know. Movies. TV.
You will be able to mash up your favorite movies and your favorite actors right down to their smallest idiosyncrasies..
I guarantee it.
I have always wondered what it would be like to have John wayne play Rick blaine and Humphrey Bogart play Rooster Cogburn.
That is what 'Avatar' is showing us... Movie/TV 'Acid' and 'Pro Tools' is just a decade..and I think less, away.
Now, that'll be fun. Personally. first up, i am gonna start with the Fondas. i am going to have Young Henry Fonda play Kevin Costner in Bull Durham or Field of Dreams (baseball player) hell, maybe Fandango. And then i am gonna have Jane Fonda play Gunnery Sergeant Hartman in 'Full Metal Jacket':
"Who said that? Who the fuck said that? Who's the slimy little communist shit, twinkle-toed cocksucker down here who just signed his own death warrant? Nobody, huh? The fairy fucking godmother said it. Out-fucking-standing! I will PT you all until you fucking die! I'll PT you until your assholes are sucking buttermilk!"
Can ya see it. Fun. And then i am gonna post it on whatever derivative of You-tube is the survivor..and you know what? It'll get eleventy thousand million hits. You know you want to see that above.
Point is. We. Are in the last days of Movies and and TV as we know it.
There will never be another show like LOST.. not due to lack of creative ability. But... Ah, you get it. -
I gotta hit the fuckin hay. Back with more tomorrow. Still crackin up...Ben didn't get kicked out of SAWYER'S book club!! Priceless.
-
with that awesome image of the island sinking and the Black Rock pirate ship, after centuries in a tree, k i s s i n g, still in sailable condition and floating away with someone - anyone we know on board.Twist ending: and just as we think whoever it is is going to get away scott free, that's when the dynamite explodes.
-
...where that come from? are they over usin ellipsises?... i mean, i thought i would be accused of bein lostboy cuz i defend em, but those guys? really? ya couldnt just say anyone "popular" at least?... lol now i know how Josh feels...
-
Yeah, I loved the echo effect reflection/parallel of on and off island Ben and Dad. Loving Doctor son hooking up daddio's oxygen tank as we remember him casually slipping on a gas mask and hitting Pops with a poison grenade.
-
I was cleaning... I was cleaning my dead grandmother's antique vacuum.. and, well and ..There was dust and...
I got something in my eye, man. That's all.
I got such click back to 'The Shape of Things to Come'
*sniff* But again, to *sigh* again, it was only latent dust from my dead Grandmother's vacuum cleaner ..that got in my eye. -
"Oh, the first three hours of the talkback were all trolls" - Sez you, puss-puss. Just 'cause you're too lazy to show up when the talkback goes up and can't be bothered to read the first several hundred post, you assume if you weren't there, it can't be any good. Spoon. The pre-show game was half trolls and 35% people obsessing about some outhouse or something, but the other 15% was gold.
-
Should be saved until 100% after the new episode has aired. Just my opinion, of course. But I am seriously worried about the cities and towns that some of these people live in. I hope they have extra officers patrolling the week after the series ends.
-
Miles establishes that he can tell you the last thoughts of someone who died. Later he mentions that he's aware of the diamonds buried in the Nikki & Paolo double grave. Later still, they show us looking at one of the diamonds he dug up from Nikki and Paolo's grave.What they didn't tell us, because LOST isn;t a comic book with thought balloons, is that while digging for buried trreasure, Miles hit bone and flashed on N or P's final thoughts. Which were, of courseHOLY FUCK WE'RE BEING BURIED ALIVE STOP WE'RE NOT DEAD QUIT THROWING SAND ON US I CAN'T BREATHE FOR GHOD'S SAKE STOP IT YOU'RE KILLING ME I'M NOT DEAD I'M NOT DEAD HELP ME OHMIGHOD PLEASE... help...meeeee. Aughhhh... uhhghnhhh... ...uhh... ... ... uhhh...
-
I also heard the monster in the flashback, but I also heard bits of the monster during the plane crash during the pilot. Remember Rose said it, the monster, sounded familiar. That always stayed with me. i went back to wacth it tonight and the monster made a whole lot of sounds that it doesn't make now anyway...and back then it seemed to have 'weight' to it...footsteps. I think they changed it midstream. however, no one has addressed my true monster issue: if MIB was locked up in the cabin until someone messed with the ash...then how was he the smoke monster killing all those folks? And is MIB so stupid as to not be able to go OVER a sonic fence? I'm thinking MIB is not the monster, but controls it...or them. I'm still thinking there might be more.
-
that the principal and the school nurse may be engaging in improper behavior on school grounds."Arzt: "Seriously? Two consenting adults doing the monkey dance on school grounds after hours? It's freaking 2004, dude. Unless they're raping the cheerleaders and filming it and posting it on the internets on a pay site, who gives patootie rodentia?"
-
Ben holds up a copy of 'Booty Babes' with the headlines 'Going There' and 'Getting To The Bottom of it' next to a Benjamin Disraeli book titled 'Justice is Truth in Action'.. Then you see a copy of 'The Chosen' By Chaim Potok.
How do these all link together? -
Combo platter that with Ben Linus and Mom. Annie. Kate. Alex. Juliet. Ilana.
Ben's penchant for stringent women. hmm. Cats. -
I stopped watching the show for the most part last season, watched a tiny bit of the first night of season 6. Stopped watching with the introduction of the other-Others. I still tell my friends I watch and just make shit up, more spoilers makes it sound like I know what I'm talking about.
A general update on what's happened so far would be very helpful... -
They're all here too!
-
"There is a folk story that describes how the animals were assigned to the cycle of years. A long long time ago, the Lord Buddha summoned all the animals together to assign each of them a year. When the cat heard the news, he let his friend the rat know about it and the two animals decided to go together the next day. However, the next day the rat did not wake the cat who, being a cat and loving to nap, slept through the morning. Therefore, the cat did not make it to the assembly on time and did not get a year. This is why there is no year of the cat and this is why cats hate rats."
"The rat, on the other hand, made it first there and received the first year. He did not achieve this without trickery either. He knew that a small animal like him would not be able to compete with the others, so he begged the ox to let him ride on its head. The ox consented and they went together. Just when they were about to arrive, the rat jumped off the ox's head and got through the finish line first. This is why the year of the rat is the first year in the cycle and the year of the ox is the second."
Ben. Hurley. Frank. Island guardians....sharing apollo bars. awesome.
ya get the retro. right? No? Nothin? ok. -
On a morning from a Bogart movie
In a country where they turn back time
You go strolling through the crowd like Peter Lorre
Contemplating a crime
She comes out of the sun in a silk dress running
Like a watercolour in the rain
Don't bother asking for explanations
She'll just tell you that she came
In the year of the cat
She doesn't give you time for questions
As she locks up your arm in hers
And you follow till your sense of witch direction
Completely disappears
By the blue tiled walls near the market stalls
There's a hidden door she leads you to
These days, she says, I feel my life..
Just like a river running through.
The year of the cat
Well, she looks at you so cooly
And her eyes shine like the moon in the sea
She comes in incense and patchouli
So you take her, to find what's waiting inside
The year of the cat
Well, morning comes and you're still with her
And the bus and the tourists are gone
And you've thrown away the choice and lost your ticket
So you have to stay on
But the drum-beat strains of the night remain
In the rhythm of the new-born day
You know sometime you're bound to leave her
But for now you're going to stay
In the year of the cat -
"How insecure do you have to be to have multiple logins on AICN." Oh MacGoux, you've done it again.Did I confuddle you when I wrote "I convinced Mike Fox that anotherdeadmartindale and VinkieKitten were the same randomly chosen banned talkbacker name."Look, here's the story, but don't tell anyone, especially Herc, Okay?Once upon, there was an AICN story about this new fantasy show from the guy that created Alias all about plane crash survivors who find themselves on a tropical Pacific Isle with a giant monster polar bear, or something.So using the name Napoleon Park I posted a few witticisms, and came back for the series premiere talkback and the week after that and Ed Cetera. Years past.One night I drank some Pepsi and got caffeinated and posted a dozen of so comments in either a Lost or Heroes talkback and the next day I got banned. I have no idea or recollection of what, if anything I'd posted that anyone objected to.I came back with a couple varient names like "NPisBack" and another one I don't even remember. And there were periods when I simply could not sign back in because I guess they have a computer or something to keep track of user ISPs even when they use a throw-down e-mail acct.Eventually - and within the last year or 14 months, because the Victim kitty showed up in December, I got back in as VikkiMarsdale.Then, about 3 or 4 weeks ago, one day I could not log back in and I thought I got banned again so I tried getting a new account, but that didn't work. I even griped about it on facebook.Well, A few days later I came in to read the latest comments and tried logging back in and, what do you know, I was in again. So half a week later I remembered that I still had that e-mail with the code to get in with my new name. So I checked it out and this time it worked.So, why? Well, because Lost is not just a TV show, it's a phenomenon and part of that experience is reading the theories and discussions in these talkbacks.And part of it is because the general atmosphere here at AICN sometimes lends itself to wanting to say something impolite to someone who may or may not have it coming. So, well, generally I try to keep the Vikki name for the "Hey, it's me, Napoleon" posts, and that other name for when I succumb to the temptation to say something stupid and make an enemy out of some schmuck I don't even know and have nothing against, just because they said something stupid too.Of course owning up to being a formerly banned member who came back as me and as someone else just sort of moos the whole point and calls attention to it when I should be trying to be discreet and not get banned again. Because I really do want to keep doing this until the series ends and the season/series finale talkback gets to that five minutes to load point.And yes, on about four occasions I thought it was funny to do a call and response and talk to myself, ask a question as VM and answer it as adk. And, yes, I realize that's an internet troll thing to do. But, dood, I'm doing it in an ironic way, so it goes around to cool again. Or not.And to be 100% clear, just because I used the name of Solo from UNCLE and the French Pastry got got sent to an island, I do not in any remote way think that the Napoleon on Elba reference from the Dr. Linus episode was in any way a shout out. Paranoid about getting locked out again, I may be, but that would be totally delusional.
-
Okay, not EXACTLY crickets. But statistically speaking you can't avoid some people bitching. I mean, this is a Lost talkback on AICN. But my point is this: vast majority "awesome" with one or two predictable grumblers. Of course, I can't give all the credit to Ben (even though my fictional-man-crush demands that I do so privately) as Badass Defiant Crazy Jack was in full force (for all the accolades everyone else gets, Fox was in the freaking zone tonight) and Ricardus gave us some awesome info. Oh yeah, and Return of Widmore. Still, significant that it was a Ben episode to bring all this together. Because Ben Linus is the greatest TV character ever. And no, I'm *not* being hyperbolic. Okay. Maybe a little.
-
that I was rooting not to happen,Never knowing what to expect on this show for a split second there when they showed us the submarine I had this horrible feeling that NonLocke was going to be on board and it was going to be that Submarine Locke blew up- if you remember all those fun "Locke moved the submarine and parked it underwater and faked blowing it up and that's why his t-shirt looked wet" theories. I so wanted those theories to be wrong, and I just freaked out for sa moment there when that sub showed up and I thought "Maybe..."
-
That the flash-sideways scenes are a "do-over" that the characters get rewarded with at the end of the series. Once we get to the finale something will happen that will make us go back and see all these sideways eps in a new light.
It seems like they are all getting a chance to go back and make up for what they did wrong. Sayid got Nadia killed--so Sayid gets a world where he stays out of Nadia's life so she can live. Ben got Alex killed, so he gets a world where he sacrifices his ambitions for her future. Kate took Aaron from Claire, so they get a world where Claire gets to raise her own baby. Jack got Juliet killed, so he gets a world where he is divorced from her (???) and she is raising their son without him.
Maybe I'm wrong about the specifics, but I'm POSITIVE that something will happen at the end of the season to throw all these sideways storylines into a new light. -
Epilogue is set in the future. Something like a space shuttle coming in from orbit over the south pacific. People talking, yadda yadda, then major FX crash sequence, cut to debris falling on beach, being watched by whoever is Jacobs replacement. Final scene is guy or gal from shuttle waking up amidst the grass, just like Jack in the pilot. Zoom in on pupil of the eye, and fade to black.
-
that I was actually rooting for.Richard sets the fuse, Jack lights it and sits down, confident that if his name was scrawled on a revolving mirror in a lighthouse that he would be unable to die, ala "The Island won't let you, Michael".So since you never eally know what to expect on Lost, I guess I was the only Lost fan/non-Jack fan out tere who was watching old Fusey going all Mission Impossible opening credits and shouting Yes, yes, surprises us to death, BLOW UP!!!Yeah, not to be, yeah, too much to ask for, yeah, I suppose there's still some more Richard story to tell and yeah I guess we're probably stuck with Shep, Kate and Ford till the very end.Still, for just a moment there I was really hoping for one of those Old School LOST WTF moments, one of those great old "I can't believe they just did that!" scenes that made Lost great.If they blew up JS and RA in the same scene, wold people scream and shout and twist all about over unresolved Eyeliner guy issues? Well, sure, of course, but then they capped AnaLucia and Libby in one great awesome scene and people still think OnTheLabel was spying on Hurley for Widmore in the asylum.
-
Shout-out to the great Ed Shrinker, gone, not forgotten.
-
That Jack was going to go all hard core and let him go BOOM! (Because that would have been one of those WTF Lost moments - just wasting his character on a death like that.) So I was doubly surprised that he didn't go BOOM! and that he seemed all "born again" and ready to follow the candidates.
-
For some reason that scene has always stuck with me. Those Libby/Hurly scenes are some of my favorite from the entire series.
-
Yeah, I'm avoiding Lost spoilers, so I have no idea if Jack will be in the finale or whatever, and I'll tell you that it was tense. Part of me was saying "They'll never kill Jack." and part of me was saying "Maybe they'll start killing off all the candidates... and this is their way of starting. Otherwise, why have Hurley leave?"
It was tense. And I only realise *how* tense, when I exhaled the same way Jack did. -
...spacecraft crashes on the island... and apes get out! ..... OK, no, not so good really.
-
Acc. to the Lostpedia he's one of the crossed out names in the Lighthouse but jeez ... it seems like it would be so appropriate.
-
I get your bit. I know your history. Hell. You take the time to remem ..or read back, i was a defender of NaPa.
I was typin bout those other girls. In assumption, that was not YOU doing YOUR crazy. Whatever, man.
Anyone who would FEATURE and CONJURE mopeds. Comically. And add upon that Nunjas.. can't be bad. Even if a THUNDERBOLT came from the sky and killed ROSS and joey and chandler like a GIGGED up bull in a pen.
You rock your nutty, fly your freak flag. I think if you become so bored to go back through the talk backs you'll find ..I'm a counter puncher. Mostly.
Don't push me. I won't push you...懂了嗎？ -
best series finale EVER!
(esp on acid)
oh Cheif - everyone sailing off the sinking island on the BlackRock would be pretty cool, but I think they're gonna need a bigger boat... -
A space shuttle crashes and it is Hurley who comes out and tells the people on the island they have to come back with..that they need do something about their kids....to go with him, back to the future!
-
See MacFu the trick about public forums as opposed to say chatrooms is if you make a generalization - ie all people with multiple sign ins are insecure neurotics - you have to expect the ears to go up on everyone in the tb with multiple IDs and all the insecure neurotics as well. When the shoe fits I dance, dance, revolution.I may have to reread the older talkbacks I bookmarked some time. I'm kinda sorry I skipped over your stuff as long as I did. Appy-polly-ollogies. For a while I was unenlightened and your stuff seemed like part over my head intellectualism, part Tom Waits alkie-riff cross-breeding Scots dialect and beatnik patois. Once you started tossing in rock lyrics I finally noticed - and the line breaks help, too.
-
Considering the general surprisingly negative tone these talkbacks have taken so far this year, I'm kinda surprising that there wasn't a lotta more tumult and hummis and upbraising about the final moments from tonight's ep.[conjure this in the Jerry Seinfeld voice:] "Seriously, could they give us any LESS Widmore?"Really, as I saw it I fully expected a riot in here with folks expressing the same thought, only seriously.Me, I'll take a buncha Arzt and some sweet Alex over more Widdy any day.
-
...when he did his first facial scene during his Nina Hartley interview: "And I am outa her!"
-
whatever happened to the headshrinker?
-
Which would make for a weirdly appropriate series finale, if you've read the Dark Tower series.
-
oh - one thing about Miles - I always had the impression most of what he did was on a psychological "healing the wounds" level and he's never really been completely honest with ANYONE about the extent of his "gift" - and maybe that includes Ilana?
-
--interesting idea...the individual who finally takes over for jacob becomes the lone survivor of the original reality, which actually ceased to exist when the bomb exploded. the flash sideways universe is actually the only reality that really exists outside the island...? Actually I think that theory is debunked because Widmore is on the sub finding island....the sideways Widmore was more than likely killed in the h-bomb detonation.
-
What does Kate do?
-
I loved that guy's game. Where did he go? I prayed for his mom and all...
Miss his calming, peaceful style. -
Hurley is talking to Jacob, but only fleetingly, and Jacob seems to be grooming Jack, who now seems up for it, but Richard knows more about the island at this point than Jack, who has restored his faith in Jacob, and so does Ilana, who considers Jacob to be her father. Then you've got Ben, to whom Richard was until recently subordinate, who actually has been the leader on the island for some time, and is the one who knows where to find Locke. So who is the leader on the beach? Could be some conflicts there, with Miles, Frank and Sun floating voters. Sayid, Sawyer and Claire seem to have chosen to follow Locke for the moment, but Kate and Jin are up for grabs. The groups aren't settled yet, but with Widmore arriving, it looks like we're going to get a clearer view of what the dynamics actually are.
-
Somebody expressed surprise last week which side Richard and Ilana were sitting on. But it kind of looked to me like there's a gap between them and the others. I wonder if the positioning and spacing between characters is as significant as what sides they are on? Look to the relationships within each side rather than who is on which side. Shared goals with opposite motives. The ying and yang of conflicted outcomes.
-
Are we clear yet if the rules Ben and Widmore spoke of are the same rules that Jacob and MIB speak of? Ben seemed pretty clear that Alex was safe because of the rules but Widmore broke those rules and ultimately (as we were reminded this week) that was Ben's motive for allowing himself to be manipulated into killing Jacob. Is Widmore the person Jacob said was coming to the island? (beyond the metaphysical sense of Jack finding the island.) So are Widmore and Jacob complicit in having broken the rules? But then, was that boy Jacob telling MIB not to break the rules? Would killing a candidate be the same as killing Alex, or are these different rules? Would anyone be willing to risk killing a candidate? We have seen Jack apparently cannot die. Richard cannot kill himself. Sayid could not kill Locke. And yet Ben could kill Jacob. What is the loophole in the rules? Why was killing Alex against the rules? How was it possible to break the rules and kill Alex leading to Ben killing Jacob? Alex was born on the island. Aaron was born on the island. Some have speculated Aaron might be Jacob. But is Alex important? Could Alex be somebody's mother? In the past. There's another baby with ties to the island. Kwan.
-
If you're starving and someone throws you a cracker..
You're like damn that was the best cracker I've ever had !!!
Its been so long since there was a good Lost episode, you can't see you are just getting regular old crackers. Remember when Hurley found those 30 year old crackers..... -
unborn.
Said it. can't find it. hmmpf. -
Seemed important in those early episodes, and as we see now, things such as the monster, the whispers, Christian, the Black Rock, the black and white stones, Adam and Eve, all these elements from season one, are very much in play as we move towards the endgame. Aaron is clearly important to what's going on. But there's a possibility that Alex is important too. Alex was raised by an other too - Ben - and this led to the death of Jacob. So what does Aaron being raised by an other - Kate - portend? Is that what Kate does? She raises Aaron. If iguana is the new gecko and Claire is the new Rousseau, is Kate the new Ben? What does Kate do? She kills. Another candidate who can't die - Sayid. Brought back to life. Also, Locke. Started screaming don't tell me what I can't do in the middle of the jungle. The rules and the candidates being so hard to kill must foreshadow one of the candidates being killed. There could be a fake out. Kill one of the Kwans and not know if it's the right Kwan (sorry that's a terrible pun.) But one of these candidates will probably be killed. What were the consequences of killing Alex? Again we're back to the chain of events with the cabin and the frozen donkey wheel and the incident and Ben killing Locke and Jacob. Does breaking the rules by killing Alex trigger the flash sideways universe? Interesting that Ben has sort of murdered both the island powers and yet both are still here and Ben has lost all his power. Widmore should explain the rules to us, if we ask nicely. Christian is still the wild card in this struggle between MIB and Jacob. Could Widmore be with Christian? Christian has two children, one fair haired, one dark haired. Also two grand children, one fair haired, one dark haired. Coincidence? Characters refer to the island for the first time in the flash sideways this week, and we're reminded how important Alex was to Ben in his struggle for the island with Widmore. And she does seem important in this episode, although it's for thematic and emotional residence. But is she significant, being hidden in plain sight the same way David was in Jack's flash sideways? I think Alex, Aaron, and David are linked. Somehow they are both younger and older than the current set of candidates. The rules apply to this generation of muppet fucking babies as well as to our candidates. And Christian is like a parent to the island powers.
-
yup.
-
was that a ritz? it tasted like a ritz... MMMMMM MMM! that is one tasty cracker!
-
So clearly groups of candidates come to the island and it plays out the same way each time and all the names get crossed out and we start again with a new set of candidates. So the question is are our LOSTIES gonna be the exception that breaks the rule or will they be the exception that proves the rule or... aw hell, that phrase never made sense to me. Anyway candidates for what? Candidates to do the same shit the island's always done or candidates to say look dude this is fucking stupid and blow up the island and go home? Will the candidate become like the last candidate and start looking for new candidates? Or something else?
-
That's what Kate does. She's the Can Did Kate. Candid Kate is the Can Did Kate. What katedid? The candidkate. That's what.
-
I think it would fit though. Ben raises Alex and thinks he gets the keys to the island but he's not the one. Kate raises Aaron and gets Ben's happy ending. Or what would be a happy ending for Ben. It might not be for Kate.
-
As you reached so deep down in your pocket of philosophical phunzy...
..To pull out Eddie Murphy 'bits' as a rebuke and a what for bout all the folk here who like LOST, the writers, the directors, the actors and everyone else who ain't makin several many figures an episode...
Ya come here late and crack wize and..well exceptionally dumb, belittle and puff up and hide your fail, so ya can big time everyone who has been havin a good night, and a good time, and a good talk bout a good show.. welp.
Ok. "Don't you think you're being a little too hard on the guys?"
Now. obviously. A genius, like 'yourself' will know the next line...
Juuuust. turn it around and apply it to 'yourself'. ok.
Welp, it's the euro shift. I'll sees you LOST fans later. -
That scene people were obsessed with when Ben and Kate have breakfast, but which really had no hidden codification at all it turned out. It's an interesting symmetry now, because of Ben's relationship with Alex and Kate's relationship with Aaron. We don't see Kate manipulate like Ben does, but she has these survival traits to get what she needs, and that involves... well, I really do think Kate is the new Ben. And what Kate did, what Kate does, is a clue or a red herring or something. the proper question is: Can Did Kate?
-
A man looking through a periscope exclaims, "Sir, we've reached the lighthouse.
Charles Widmore replies, "Lighthouse? WTF are you talking about lighthouse? There's no lighthouse on the island!"
*pom* -
Sawyer has been chosen by Locke. Sayid has been infected and claimed. Hurley is talking to Jacob. Locke has become the smoke monster. Which Kwan is misdirection. Jack has been touched by Jacob too soon for this to be legit. It's a fake out. In the cave, the only recall to Jacob touching people we didn't see was Kate. Well why not? Cuse said her name was on the wall it just wasn't in the shot that aired. Austin was there in the lighthouse scene. She's been sidelined with this Claire / Aaron stuff - which is clearly important, but not in terms of Kate. Sawyer and Jack have been too obviously tapped by Jacob and MIB at this stage. Kate has always been caught in the middle of Sawyer and Jack. Now with Jack and Sawyer taking island sides, Kate is going to be caught in the middle. She's the candidate.
-
"We've got to leave the island. We've got to go back to the island. I love Jack. I love Sawyer. We've got to go back to the island. I love Sawyer. I love Jack. We've got to leave the island. I love Jack. I love Sawyer."
-
People speculating the flash sideways are a coda to what happens on the island in 2007. So are the flash sideways What Kate Does?
-
Q: What Does Can Did Kate Do? A: Can Did Kate creates the flash sideways.
-
LOST
-
who cares. Remember when there was MYSTERY instead of just questions...
These idiot writers either have forgotten or don't know the difference. -
Ben just had an episode where he weighs the consequences of his decisions with regards to Alex. This is clearly foreshadowing an episode where Kate weighs the consequences of her decisions with regards to Aaron. The first episode after the pilot was Kate-centric. I bet the last episode before the finale will also be Kate-centric (excluding the island mythology warm up to the finale.) This mirrors season one, where the episodes after the pilot and before the finale were Kate-centric. The Candidate will be Kate. One sideways world Ben raised Alex and Kate raised Aaron. The other sideways world Alex and Aaron were not raised by an other. This is why Kate's motivations are centred on Claire and Aaron. It's leading to something crucial. And it serves as misdirection by making her look secondary to all the big flashy island moves that are happening. I like a comment MacFaux made. What if whether Kate chooses the white rock or the black rock with regards to Aaron will have consequences for whether David is undead or unborn? This will have to do with the rules that the blonde boy speaks of in the jungle. Alex died when the rules were broken. The blonde boy has blood on his wrists and speaks of the sanctity of the rules. He appears twice. Once like a vision. Once as though in corporeal form. Once he has the wounds, and once he does not. This is the choice. Kate must choose whether to make a sacrifice. Not wanting to mix biblical metaphors, but then Jacob is already Aaron, so Kate will be Abraham binding Isaac, so call me Ishmael.
-
LOST
-
Mar 10, 2010 7:44:46 AM CST
I've been critical of a few things this season so far, but...
by wampa_droppings
...last night's episode was great. May be the best this season, IMO. It did nearly everything a great episode should. And the Ben flash sideways was the most tolerable yet. Did a good job of showing that timeline matters. Oh, and, WELCOME BACK WIDMORE!!!
-
...NIKKI AND PAULO R U L E ! ! ! !
-
True? Is he an actual "lost boy" now?
-
Speculation: The Candidate must choose between the white rock and the black rock, one sideways world and the other. The island is a kind of nexus. Locke just offered Ben the chance to have the island when everyone leaves. He can't. It won't be his choice. This is what Kate does. "What Kate Does" is all about Claire and Aaron, not Ben and Alex. It's the first flash sideways episode once they are established. This is important. My bet is it will be important in the last flash sideways episode too. The flash sideways are What Kate Does because Kate is the Can Did Kate. Prediction: Claire will have a miscarriage in the flash sideways. Foreshadowed by the scene in the hospital in What Kate Does. Foreshadowed by Claire's skull doll. Foreshadowed by Damon Lindelof saying but what happens if you die in the flash sideways. Foreshadowed by the blonde kid in the jungle with blood on his hands. On the island, Jack will say that his wife once had a miscarriage. Foreshadowed by David. Foreshadowed by the invisible boy. Jacob and MIB are the undead manifestations of Christian Shepherd's unborn grandchildren. This is the choice. The black or the white. Observation: if David's mother with Jack turns out to be a plot point, so will Aaron's father with Claire, in the flash sideways. Candidates? Juliet and Sawyer. But I don't think this will be a plot point. Retarded speculation: Widmore has come to the island on a submarine from the flash sideways world. LOL. It wasn't a spider, it was a crab. Foreshadowing: There will be no accusations, just friendly crustaceans, under the sea.
-
The flash sideways seem to hold a cohesiveness that no one has mentioned. But you have to look at all of them, not just the single episodes.
Locke - In the flashbacks of previous seasons Locke was a loser. An outcast almost. His father wanted nothing to do with him until he needed him. He was brought up in foster homes. Etc. On the island he found purpose, but even with purpose he met obsticles in acceptance by the losties, by the island, etc. And when Ben killed him his last thought was I don't understand.
But the flashsidesways should how he finally acccepted and even embraced his limitations. Locke got the thing he most wanted. To be comforatable in his own skin and accepted for who he was.
Kate - As part of the O6 she raised Aaron as her own son. But she eventually realized that the most important thing she could do was to return to the island, rescue Claire and reunite the 2.
In the flash sideways she did her part to make sure that Aaron and Claire would be together. She got the thing that was most important to her by not running, but by returning and helping.
Jack - Daddy issues. Plain and simple. He wanted more than anything to be accepted by his father, but as a child he was told he didn't have what it took. Still wanting acceptance he followed in his father's footsteps, only to perceive to be "humiliated" by him in his first big surgery. His response - take the bastard down. And he did. And his father died because of it.
Flash sideways Jack had the same issues, but X2 with his son. But in the end of the flash sideways he overcame the daddy issues, repairing the rift between him and David. Jack fixed the thing that caused him the biggest grief throughout his life.
Sayid - As Sayid told Flocke, the thing he wanted most in his life died before his very eyes. Sayid saved Nadia by helping her escape, then searched for her for years. He saw her die, and then killed and killed and killed some more for Ben. He went from being a torturer to being tortured inside himself for the acts he had done.
Flash sideways and he's found Nadia. Flash sideways and she's safe. Flash sideways and he's still the badass, but now he uses for good the skills he's used in the past for "eveil". He is the good man he proclaimed to Dogan that he was before turning Flocke evil.
Ben - In S4 Ben showed his true colors. Not the liar etc. we've all come to know, but the truth that he loved Alex as any father would. That being siad, he still let her be killed. He watched this with his own eyes. And while his immediate response was to unleash smokie on Keeney's team, he wept over her body after smokie's wrath had been dealt. He lost the one thing in his life he unconditionally loved. (Side note - there's more with his dad kinda in this vane, but you know what that is.)
Sideways Ben found the same ruthlessness for what he considered the greater good - getting rid of the principal. But when given the choice to save Alex's college desires, he turned on his own ruthlessness. He instead took what he could hold over the principal's head for his own benefit and used it to better Alex. Ben always wanted to use his ruthlessness for the greater good, and in the flash sideways he has.
See? Flash sideways are so much better when you look at the forest, not the individual trees. -
The stupidity, it burns! Rosasaks, why you got be so retarded? Your like a nerd humping the leg of a cheerleader.
-
That line to Ben about staying behind when everyone leaves is intriguing because what exactly would that entail. We've seen one reality when the island is sent to the bottom of the ocean. But that is not yet determined. Who or what Jacob is remains unclear. Whether he is different to MIB or the same with a different view of their purpose. What does it mean to protect the island? What does it mean to be Jacob? What will become of the candidate? Jacob seems to exist on the island across time and space. So will the candidate take on a different form? Have we already seen signs of the candidate role in the island history? Because I don't get the impression that if, for instance, Kate becomes the candidate, she either stays on the island, does nothing, or goes home, like MIB offered to Sawyer. There's more to it than that. The candidate may be determined, but I bet it's the island mythology episode that will explain what being the candidate means. It's interesting that MIB told Sawyer there were three choices. Stay and protect, leave and go home, do nothing and see what happens. At the moment we have this binary system. Black and white. Island and flash sideways. Jacob and MIB. Aaron and David. Jack and Sawyer. I'm interested in this fact MIB was quite clear to Sawyer in the cave that actually there are three choices. I think he was telling the truth about that.
-
I think Kate represents the third choice. The triangle. Christian is part of this axis. A third way. At the moment we have these two competing realities. I bet they will resolve building up to the episodes we have titles the Last Recruit, The Candidate, and the island mythology episode. But perhaps the finale will explore the third choice? The original time line and the flash sideways represent two of the choices. The candidate will be offered them. The candidate will choose the third path. Kate represents the triangle. Her choice won't be binary, between Jack and Sawyer. She was originally conceived as the main character. She'll have this choice whether to make sacrifices in her own life, or sacrifices in Aaron's life, with sacrifices in the lives of her friends implicit in both choices. All of her fugitive back story and the love triangle will play into this. But Kate is about self sufficiency and survival even if she gets it through others. Some how she will turn this to her advantage with the third choice. Idle speculation of course, but it really does all fit quite well.
-
I thought the sideways story was a little hokey, in that it hinged on a deal between Ben and OMG IT'S A NEW CHARACTER WTF that seemed unrealistic to me. Are you telling me the principal would risk being "outed" by Ben? It just seems more likely he'd step down and look for a new job than risk his entire career and marriage. Didn't buy it.
-
If they use smokey a lot in the finale, I hope they come up with a few more sound effects than the "angry bull" sound that they overused so much in last week's ep. I also hope Hurley makes it to the end of filming. Dude, he is soooooooo big. Having him walk around the jungle and up and down slopes and stuff must be really hard on his knees. I also hope they show how the Black Rock ended up in the middle of the island.
-
Not only does Ben do right by Alex, he doesn't assassinate the authority figure. So the symmetry isn't just with his choice as posed by Keamy, but later the decision to kill Jacob. It's almost like wish fulfilment. Ben is given a test which mirrors his two biggest regrets on the island, and he passes it. He also has a good relationship with his father, and we get a visual cue of the gas cannister. He is helpful rather than vindictive. What isn't addressed so much is his choice to kill John Locke. But on the island now, Ben knows where Locke is, and his old foe Widmore has arrived, so after this moment of catharsis with Ilana, it's clear what Ben's concerns will be next. Episode covered lots of ground very effectively, and Michael Emerson was terrific. Hit a higher emotional resonance than a lot of the earlier episode, and had plenty of mythology development too.
-
Plus Ben had something of an epiphany with regards to Locke when they buried him. The tone of that was rather odd however. But then Locke's circumstances are odd too. But that scene builds nicely into the deeper character development in this episode. Ben seems to have come to grips with some of the demons he was faced with when the Smoke Monster appeared to him as Alex. It's telling that Ilana seems to be able to forgive him for his crisis of faith and for killing Jacob. And it means more because she says Jacob was like a father to her. Ben was like a father to Alex. And Ben killed his own father and he killed Jacob. Ilana doesn't kill Ben in revenge. This gives Ben the opportunity to redeem himself in actions.
-
There's actually a lot of very careful attention to the symmetries in character relationships this season, in addition to the juxtaposition of island stories with sideways stories and season one stories. And it's feeding into mythological plot elements too. If they can sustain this to a layered pay off it will be impressive. LOST has always had pacing issues owing to juggling so many main characters within competing narrative devices that make conflicted claims on the dramatic arc of a given episode versus the mythological architecture of the whole series. But whilst this stretch of episodes is by no means perfect storytelling, LOST is far more adroit than the majority of its detractors can so far detect.
-
another awesome ep.
-
That must make you a chair leg nerf herding the humps off a camel.
-
So yummy, can't imagine than any hetrosexual male wasn't getting a little excited when she was on screen.
Students that look like that would definetely prevent me from being a teacher. -
that Kate was originally supposed to be the star of the show, leader of the group of Losties, etc... And the Doctor character (played by Michael Keaton) would have died in the pilot, much like how the pilot died in the pilot.
In fact, in her audition video, she is rehearsing lines from after Jack's death.
So it sort of makes me wonder if maybe the show has been about Kate all along, and that she will wind up being the Candidate that wins out. -
Another brilliant performance, and he has made Ben Linus one of the most memorable tv character's.
He will be battling it out with Terry O'Quinn for the best Lost actor this season, and probably an Emmy. -
someone mentioned above that this felt like the beginning of the second act of the season, completely agree.
-
for me will go down as one of the classic scenes in Lost.
Really looking forward to the Alpert episode in a couple of weeks -
Definite and possible spoilers!Excerpt from Wiki: "'The Chosen' tells the story of the friendship between two Jewish boys growing up in 1940’s Brooklyn. Reuven Malter, who has a mind for mathematics,wants to become a rabbi and follows modern methods of studying Judiasm. Danny is a genius son of a Hasidiac Rabbi, Reb Saunders, who expects him to take over his position as tzaddik eventually."This is an obvious reference to the relationship between MIB and Jacob as revealed in Episode 15, Across the Sea.Literary themes within the book include widespread references to senses (especially sight), the pursuit of truth in a gray world, the strength of friendship, and the importance of father-son relationships.Excerpt from Wiki: "Literary themes within the book include widespread references to senses (especially sight), the pursuit of truth in a gray world, the strength of friendship, and the importance of father-son relationships."LOL! This doesn't even need to be explained.Interesting to note in the article is that some of the conflict revolves around fathers who want their sons to become one thing while the sons want to become something else. In the end, the truth behind the fathers' wishes and actions is revealed and the sons make their decisions on the paths they'll take. Much of this same conflict also revolves around faith, science, and tradition.Definitely some hints and allusions, it seems, in this novel.
-
i was partly thinking the same thing as mentioned above regarding the principal. granted, holding alex's future over ben's head was a good leveraging piece, but i didn't completely buy that the principal wouldn't have resigned. there was nothing that gave him contract that ben wouldn't just sell him out after alex got her letter of reference. i understand it was just a means to drive the plot and progress ben's character comparison, but i wasn't completely sold. i don't think anyone would take that kind of gamble.
-
...I don't think you're right...but I kind of hope you are.
-
Another fan-freaking-tastic musical episode! So exciting that his career is only just beginning.....
-
locke being a substitute in the flash sideways is complete rubbish. you can't just show up at a temp agency and be made a school substitute. even though you're not a full fledged teacher you still have to have SOME level of education credits completed. and subs aren't called via temp agencies, you still have to be registered within the board of education system. they really should have at least tried to give locke some back story to make that plotline believable.
-
TNG finale was EPIC! Would have made a better motion picture than GENERATIONS did.
-
Six feet under was brilliant.
The Shield was great
The Wire - good but not great -
Bet I'm the only guy here who relies on a VCR to watch LOST !
-
Maybe it's been said, but I'll just throw out something that occurred to me.
The choices they make in alt time line seem to parallel the side they join on island time. Sayid decides to kill in alt time, on island he joins MIB. Ben puts someone else over his own interest, island time he joins team Jacob. Just a side note here, wonder if the MIB's real name is Edward. Jack chose good off island, and on. Kate risked herself to help Claire in alt. time and I don't think she will end up with MIB as her reaction and Flocke's reaction to her wasn't the same as it was to Sayid and Claire.
And while Sawyer is in Flocke's camp currently, we haven't seen what he'll do in alt time, and I think we will then see him make a real commitment one way or another. -
in the beginning (I think Lindelof and Cuse said they fleshed out Ben more when he really took to the role and they realized they had a good character here), Ben Linus' arc has been one for the ages. To actually feel pity for this man on the island, and see how well of a human being he is in the flashsideways, is amazing.
-
to the Black Rock (before they even brought out the TNT), just cause he likes fucking things up
and crying -
There's no reason to think Locke is unqualified to become a sub. Some places it doesn't take much AT ALL ... And though I've never seen it done, I don't know why a temp agency couldn't be involved. I actually don't remember that he got the job through the temp agency, now that
i think about it. -
rosasaks maybe?
on island: Ben kills father with gas cannister.
flashsideways: Ben "saves" father with gas cannister.
whoa. -
I would tell her about my innovative new teaching method where I tattoo facs on my dick and plunge it into her over and over again. No jury in the world would convict me for that.
-
OK, I'm working (well, "working") and actually on a VPN in a Fed network (so I'm sure there's some content screen going on, cue phone "Mr. T****, we're seeing some unauthorized traffic through ..."), er, so I'm semi-distracted, but anyway...
Since time travel, parallel universes, etc., are all a core part of the series, I'm wondering if the "do overs" aren't a different batch of people, but the same people again and again through different timelines. i.e., they wind up scratching off all the candidates without a "winner" and they/the_powers_that_be push the reset button and we're back to the beginning[?] (or the candidates are people who can reconcile themselves in every timeline)
It's the same reason I wonder if "home" for the MIB isn't so much a +where+ as a +when+
-
Isn't Michael Emerson amazing? He has taken a weasel of a man, a confessed liar and murderer, who risked (and lost) the life of his daughter on a bluff for the chance to stay on the island, then not only turned him into one of the most interesting and compelling characters of a villainous nature into somebody that I (and presumably the audience as a whole) feels a connection and roots for. I find him to be a very deep and engaging actor to watch put out some pretty heart-felt acting, and pretty funny in interviews too.The Alpert/Jack scene was cool too, and this does seem like it is starting to push things straight to the heart of the matter while putting Richard and Jack together more or less as equals. It did also seemingly answer (in part or through implication) some questions fans have been griping about for quite a while.-Cheers
-
The producers admitted this past month that one of the sounds used to create Smokey is the tikatikatika of a receipt printing from a NY Cab's counter. That's probably why it sounds familiar to Rose.
-
EVERY scene that has taken place in or around the Black Rock has been a highlight of LOST. Last night's (unstable) dynamite showdown was fantastic...But, the Sawyer/Cooper scene from "The Brig" still trumps it in my opinion.
But as I posted last nite...Jack having the "FAITH" to lite that fuse AND sit down for a chat was a sign that the old Jack is BACK...and "SCIENCE" is no longer steering his ship. -
Same here about the Fed job VPN. Lol. Haven't gotten any phone calls in the last year about these 'talkbacks'.
-
Christian is suspiciously absent so far, although Claire has reappeared and the lighthouse episode dealt with looking for his will, and mirrored Jack smashing up the coffin. The unexplained visions of Christian were a spooky hook early in season one. Hurley seeing Jacob feels less unexplained and Locke we have to accept as MIB. So maybe the blonde boy is the closest so far to a vision like Jack was having after the plain crash. I'm reminded of the fact that Sawyer met Christian in Sydney. I wonder if this fact will be redeployed. Remember that great scene with Jack and Sawyer where they talked about Christian in season one? With Jack and Sawyer now taking opposite sides I wonder if there will be a parallel scene that brings them closer together, and if this scene will involve Jack's father. That would be nice and tidy. Christian in the coffin does seem like a foreshadowing of Locke in the coffin, just like Alex seems like a foreshadowing of Aaron. It's strange these glints and glimmers of story strands repeating and echoing in island history. Almost like there are certain near misses with characters who almost fulfil criteria of being candidates for certain roles but not this time and you must be expert to tell the real thing when it happens. Ben at times seems like such an echo. Richard had doubts this week whether he was important as he felt he was. But this all fits with this sense we now have of candidates who are rival possibilities for whatever the island demands or suggests or gets stuck with. There isn't one fixed hierarchy so much as a set of different possibilities. Christian is a big mystery. Can we take he has been to the island long before Oceanic 815? If so, when? The French scientific expedition? The Black Rock? Could he be a contemporary of Widmore and Eloise? I think Christian's role is much older and more integral to the island than has yet been directly alluded to, and that's why Jack and Aaron seem so important. But I'm totally clueless how to expect Christian to be reintroduced into the story. Where is he going to show up? How long? We're seven episodes in now, and this is the guy who clearly has a lot of answers AND is directly related to the main characters. So he's probably going to be pivotal in terms of explanations. A lot is being made of the Richard episode being revelatory. Would that be an opportune time for Christian to reappear? Might Christian, rather than being on the Black Rock, already be on the island when it gets there? Or might he be known by another name we've heard before, such as Hanso, for instance. Or is he just going to be held back until nearer the finale? I do think there needs to be a scene with Jack and Sawyer that mirrors the season one scene about Jack's father though. Something else to ponder is if "Sawyer" never exists in the flash sideways. Cooper is on better terms with Locke. Might that mean Sawyer's parents are alive? Might we meet Sawyer's dad? That would be interesting. Also, whether the theme continues of younger characters. What of Clementine? Something we might want to know too is the time scale of these flash sideways. We start with Kate and her dealings with Claire and Aaron. Jack was still dealing with his father's will. Locke with the aftermath of his trip to Australia. Sayid didn't seem to be long after 815 but Jin was in the freezer so some time had elapsed. I'm not clear where Ben fits into the time frame as he wasn't on 815, but it's after Locke becomes the substitute. The season one flashbacks had a lot of time jumps. There's not so much of that with the side-backs yet. (I'm going to call them the side-backs because it's more economical. Glad I just thought of this.) But might we see more time elapse? Presumably no because everything is building to Aaron being born I suspect. But what of Sun's baby? Ben mentioned the island in the side-backs for the first time. I think this raises the question of expectations. Will somebody try and raise the island? Will the two realities converge? Will one be wiped out? A lot seem to think the side-ways are the endgame, after the island. But if that is true, will the finale concern itself with the side-ways world? Will magic creep back into the new lives the characters have? The real world of season one was decidedly none magical, and we're seeing this again in the side-backs. Ben talking to his father was the first time this has been remotely punctured. Are the side-backs mere glimpses of what could be, as viewed perhaps in a cave or a lighthouse from the island by people who are offered a choice - a choice that they very well might have the opportunity of taking, but ultimately don't? Or are they a going concern? Could we see real forward progression, in years, forward from 815 landing at LAX? Are we totally done with the real world of the original time line? This question of consequences of death with Lindelof raised might even hint at whether the two real worlds might course correct into the same reality as the Losties die off in one or the other and this is how the island comes to embody them, stuck between, like whispers in the jungle of space and time. Could that be what became of Christian? And now Locke. And gradually all of them? What does having your name struck off as a candidate actually mean? How is the last one standing different? Locke tells Ben someone has to stay on the island after everyone is gone. Richard says Locke wants to kill everybody. Does going home involve death? Is that why Richard in his crisis of faith wants to die? Is dying a good thing, depending on your point of view? Someone will have to choose who dies and who lives, but in each world, some want to die and some want to live, and they can't all get what they want. Each side with conflicted goals and motives between each other and within and not reflected clearly in the other world. The candidate has to choose. And the instinct is to cheat. To some how find a way to cheat in a no win situation and reject the choice of life or death. To do nothing and see if dead is dead or what happened happened, or something else. The doing nothing bit would be redolent of various tenets of eastern mysticism. Possibly the Dharma initiative is not important, but whoever chose it's symbols was a lot more savvy to the nature of the island than they admitted.
-
No one is paying any attention so he starts shouting louder, with more insults, hoping and praying someone will look at him.
-
He let his own daughter die right in front of him. PRAISE TO YOU, Michael Emerson. You've made a purely evil sonofabitch someone we want to root for. Don't be fooled though, Ben's true colors willonce again show themselves to screw over the 815ers sooner or later.
-
The Brig scene was also amazing.
But was great seeing Alpert, so screwed up, so unsure of himself, Jack having faith but being a leader, and in many ways being a healer again, giving and proving to Alpert that he has a reason to live.
-
To be a substitute teacher, I've been told all you need is either a high school diploma, or a college degree. I don't recall which one it was. But if its a college degree, its plausible to think in this reality Locke may have gone to a college for something. But its really not that difficult to become a sub. That's a really nitpicky thing to criticize.
-
At the moment he said it I really got the strong impression that Richard telling Hurley that the DeadJacob's Ghost he'd seen and talked with COULD NOT BE TRUSTED was, you know, perhaps the single most significant and important major clue of the week in moving the Island mythology story forward. As in, you know, 1.) Jacob is "dead" and 2.) there is a character in the story who can assume the forms of other people but it has been stated that he can only assume the forms of the dead.Dogen to Sayid: "He will appear to you as someone you know who has died."Um, not that we know who or what Boy In White is, and not that we know for a factual certainty that everything Ilana says is correct or can be trusted.Is JacobsGhost NOT Jacob? Sorry if I missed it, otherwise surprised that this point isn;t getting more discussion in this talkback. Like I said, it seemed real important to me at the time.
-
All of you expecting his "true colors" to show, for him to lie and steal and kill in the end... I have to disagree with you. I think the alt reality showed Ben's true colors. Deep down he IS a good person. He wants to be wanted by others. But he was never wanted, and that desire turned into a lust for power, a way to dominate men and gain acceptance that way. Ben has been redeemed. He's not going to turn back now. If anything, he's going to do something very selfless and unexpected in the end.
-
sorry a little obsessed with her today, soo yuummy and Jeff Goldblum has been having a good time with Tania Raymonde, lucky guy, pushing 60 and getting that, should be a reward or medal for that
-
I had some substitutes that apparently only needed a day pass from their correctional facility...
-
I don't think Richard was implying the Jacob ghost was Smokey. I think he was really heartbroken and angry at Jacob, that he had followed this man for hundreds of years and received nothing in return. He's like Ben at the end of last season. Ben was told Jacob would come to him if he had patience, but Jacob never came. Richard was told he was doing things for a reason, that Jacob had a plan and one day he'd share that plan with him. But he never did. And then he died. And Richard sees his life on the Island as being pointless. That's why he said "whatever he says, don't trust him." I seriously doubt Richard would say "Don't trust him bc he's Smokey" and then go try to kill himself. Those pieces don't add up.
-
Isn't it just a flash forward then?
-
Raises an interesting question. Can we forgive Ben? Now we see these characters living different possible lives in the side-backs - now we've seen another SIDE of them - can we entertain forgiving them for the lives they've led to get to the island? Ilana forgives Ben for killing her substitute father Jacob so maybe the answer is yes, we can. The growth Ben shows in the side-backs seems to shine through in his confessions concerning Alex and Locke and Jacob on the island. Is the subtext of the side-backs that we must not always think of history, but of human potential, that we must always entertain the possibility of difference? There is a conflict here. Sayid last week choose the darkness in the side-backs though with motive. He followed the Monster. This week Ben chose the light, and followed Ilana back away from the Monster when the Monster tempted him. Is this what the scales of judgement are all about? Is this how the characters choose and take their side-backs? Ben is a history teacher. Should we judge him on his history? Dr Linus. Locke is only a substitute. But Ben is a substitute father for Alex. He killed his own father and he let his substitute daughter die and he killed Ilana's substitute father but Jacob's substitute daughter let Alex's substitute father live. So can we allow Dr Linus a shot at redemption? If Ilana regards Jacob as the closest thing to a father she's got... Is Ilana another island baby? Which would put Jacob in the Kate/Ben role. Could Ilana be MIB's daughter? Ilana is the person he loved and lost? MIB is like Rousseau, Claire.. his child has been raised by an other... and he wants vengeance? Doubt it. But this substitute business put me in mind that it draws a parallel between Ilana and Alex and Aaron, and therefore Jacob and Ben and Kate. Which might be a good catch, actually.
-
not sure I agree that deep down he is a good person, though don't like a person being described as good or bad, its their actions that should be judged.
Deep down inside your name sake was a "good" person, but most of his actions until his final one were evil, lots of death. Linus is mostly the same.
But I do agree with you that he will be selfless right at the end. Perhaps sacrificing himself to save his "friends" -
I disagree. I think this was his defining moment. These ARE his true colors. He had Ilana at gunpoint. If he was going to screw the supporters of Jacob and his cause, that would have been the time. What better chance could there possibly be? Also, his genocide was for something he once believed in as his destiny, which now is lukewarm and has lost its appeal to him. In short, he has grown. If he was going to do something evil and selfish at this point, he would have done it with Ilana at gunpoint a/o with the possibility of gaining power in the school. Those are parallels that show his growth and a significant change to the heart of the character.While it probably makes me a bumbling fanboy, I cannot help but cast praise at Michael Emerson, and the writers, for creating such a compelling character and such a simple couple of acts that shatter what my perceptions of Ben Linus was while creating such a great image of one man's salvation and such great character growth. No, I think we saw Ben lay down all of the cards, reach that point where he had to make a decision once and for all, and this is what he chose. He has no more secrets, no more hidden agendas or knots to unravel in his story, this is who he is. We know what he has done, who he was, his motivations, half-truths, and the losses suffered. I believe this is as honest and close a look at the character of who Ben really is we have ever gotten and we have a pretty good idea what he's been through and how he got there.-Cheers
-
Pa...actually is the bible for information about our old friend Ed Shrinker. Ed has had just about every fuckin tragedy befall him that anyone could possibly hope to endure.
Pa still corresponds with him in the jail he now (temprorarily) calls home. But how he got there is as sad & heartbreaking as anything we've witnessed unfold on LOST.
I'll let Pa update you on the details, if he chooses to...but suffice it to say, Ed is trying to remain his old 'upbeat' self despite is truly dire circumstances.
If anyone in these talkbacks who desperately needs a 'flash sideways', 'happier outlook' make over...it is our old friend Ed.
Namaste, Ed Shrinker!
-
Zillabeast gave Michael Giaccino a justified shout-out for his essential and evocative musical contributions to Lost. Perhaps the most important TV series musical creator since Angelo Badalamenti's work for Twin Peaks.I'd agree. Sometimes parodies or mocked by pundits who don;t get that sometimes all a scene needs are three bowed notes on a cello or a plucked violin stacatto. And some of his full compositions have been incredible. As well as his adaptations and arrangements of coutsid music, such as last weeks incredible scene of the NonLocke team in slightly slow motion marching into the jungle to the echo-ey, psychedelic stains of Clare's sing-song madwoman performance of the lullaby "Catch a Falling Star".Oddly enough,this episode (Dr. Linus) contained a bit of music that had me gritting my eyes and rolling up my teeth. Pendulous Hugo Reyes marching through the jungle, down the side of a treacherous twisting slope, belly swaying to the tune of a bit of doot-do-doot-de-doo baby elephant walk "comedy relief" music. One very small isolated moment from 5.4 seasons of brilliant work, but Im afraid it how you say "struck the wrong note" with me. All is forgiven and everyone makes mistakes, I just hope that's not the new recurring Hurley Theme. He deserves better.I don't think I have ever craved or dreampt of "Cheese Curds" in my life. Or woken talking about food. Every episode, especially the drama-heavy ones, needs a few moments of levity. But something better than Hurley fat jokes and comedy music, please.
-
You may be right, but it would run counter to Jack restoring Richard's faith in Jacob. Of course it could be that Jack's way past being crazier than Hurley ever was by now. Richard was spooked in the jungle and he really doesn't like MIB either - unless that was somebody else just appearing to Sawyer as somebody he knew... Which it wasn't. It's been CONFIRMED by Lindelof that owing to island rules Smokey can't take on different forms from the moment Ben killed Jacob. So who do you propose is appearing to Hurley? Jacob might be able to take on different forms if Smokey no longer can. The old bait and switch. There's a dilemma here actually how to reconcile dead Jacob who Hurley talks to, ghost kid with blood on his hands, and blonde boy running happily through the jungle. Buggered if I know. But I don't think Jacob is pretending to look like himself, because that would be retarded, even if Jack and Hurley are nuts. In fact, it sounds like the sort of explanation the pair of them might concoct right now. Now the one possibility is that CHRISTIAN has been impersonating Jacob, but at that point my head starts to ache, because surely he could just appear to Jack instead of bothering with Hurley at all. Other people have seen him. Locke. Claire. Frank. Sun. Though of course there is the riddle of the two Christians. That sounds like the opening line of a joke. Two Christians walk into a barber shop and one of them says.... Ahem, so who exactly would be appearing to Hurley as Jacob? A FOURTH island entity? Holy plot contrivances, Batman. Somebody talked about Occam's Razor up thread. Does that ring any bells? Hurley can see dead people. Jacob is dead. Hurley is talking to a dead person who says he's Jacob. Dunno about you, but I reckon Hurley might be talking to Jacob. There's a bunch of interviews with cast and writers which seem to agree. Jorge Garcia sounds convinced. So anyway, two Christians walk into a ba...
-
you're mostly right with these parallels, but I don't agree with your interpretation of Sayid. He chooses to kill Keamy in cold blood when he didn't have to. He didn't think he was worthy of redemption, and said he didn't deserve Nadia. When Eko wouldn't repent, he died. Sayid thought it was too late for him - he said 'I have to' or something like that with Keamy. So the choice he made in the flashsideways immediately impacted the main reality by having him be a killer, who he thought himself to be. And I'd join in the creaming over Alexis, but you know, I like women, not little girls. And I'm not a vulgar creep.
-
Mar 10, 2010 10:55:27 AM CST
that last part was directed at the other pervs, not rbrog77
by oisin5199
-
Everyone is wondering about who will replace MIB and Jacob, but I wonder if Richard is so important in the grand scheme that Jacob has given him an extended life to help protect Jacob/the island..or whatever his function is.....will someone we know end up replacing Richard? May not be important..but a thought.
-
He wants to protect children from harm. Everything we've seen from him regarding children reinforces this idea.
-
I interpreted Ben saying Widmore couldn't kill Alex because he would break the rules this way:
Babies born on the island are rare and important in the grand scheme to Jacob...perhaps he can be reborn in such a child. Ben either assumed that such a child would be protected by Jacob, or at the very least that Widmore would respect that "rule" and the rarity of such a child and not harm her.
Basically, I don't think that rule is the same as the inherent laws of the island the bind jacob and MIB to the island. -
Interesting though to compare his fear of MIB to his disillusionment with Jacob and his wish to end it all. Jack talked him round. Now Richard clearly knows something of MIB from way back when. He was frightened because Jacob was dead and this caused his belief system to unravel. But now Jack has him believing in Jacob again, and now Richard knows Jacob is communicating through Hurley... now what? Are his loyalties up for grabs? Will he see Jack as the heir to Jacob and follow him? Now he is past his crisis of faith, will he be back on the market and willing to entertain proposals from Smokey? He warned Sawyer about MIB killing everyone, but then wants to kill himself? How easy would it be to tip Richard over the edge? He's on the beach now with a very mixed bag of characters, and has his purpose restored. But what was his purpose? What was he trusted to do by Jacob, with gift of his touch? He seemed very ambivalent to Ilana when he met her. His relationship with Ben is now presumably very strained. He has gone from being somebody calling the shots who has known the terrain for many many years to being perhaps the person most deeply troubled by the sudden upheaval in the island's status quo, because he had known it and understood his role for so long, and recent events have called that into question. He sees Locke and Ben as the agents of that change. He doubts Jacob and is wary of Ilana. What does Richard do now? Will he have his own agenda? Or might he be heavily invested in completing this candidate process to find Jacob's successor? Something which needs addressing. Does Jacob want to be replaced? Does Jacob see the replacement as a threat or a friend? And Ilana, his "bodyguard". She knows a lot about this candidate process. But what is her goal? To see Jacob replaced, or make sure that Jacob is not replaced? To protect Jacob so Jacob can protect the island? Jacob's old body is gone. Ilana seems to be tasked with protecting the candidates. But we've seen bodies on the island have strange things happen. Christian. Locke. What of Jacob's body? Does Jacob need a new body that needs guarding? Because this Jacob guy doesn't seem dead to me. He knew that trap was being sprung and allowed it. Now what the kid in the jungle and Ilana are all about remains to be seen. Richard might be right when he tells the candidates not to trust Jacob. But not because Jacob isn't Jacob. But because Jacob isn't quite what people think he is.
-
Is it better to be special or gifted? Is there a difference? Also note how Ben the history teacher is forced to concentrate on the kids in detention rather than the kids trying to get into Yale. Are the candidates the kids in detention or the kids getting into Yale? They need to find an island history teacher pronto who can clue them in.
-
A better man than I'll ever be. And I'm sorry I killed him.And, um, Jacob. I was in a bad mood and apparently I stabbed some sort of god-like entity in the heart. I'm totally sorry I killed him.And, um, my father, In retrospect, I guess the crime or sin of patricide is frowned up by society for a reason.Oh, and wiping out the entire Dharma Initiative with poison gas and having their bodies plowed into an open pit? Totally my bad. Sorry.Summoning the Smoke Monster to attack the Mercenaries from the freighter Yeah, I kinda lost my temper there, but you have to remember, Martin Keamy just killed my Daughter. Because I refused to cooperate with his demands ad, you know, sort of said "go ahead and kill her." But I never thought he would. but he did. Yeah, I kinda have to blame myself for that one two.Okay, in my defense, stabbing the wounded Keamy in the throat repeatedly, he totally had that coming. Yeah, I guess everyone on the freighter died because I did that, but still, f*cking Martin Keamy, man.Now when I turned the FDW and teleported to Tunisia and was taken captive by two guys with guns, well, that was self defense and they had it coming.And all those people I got Sayid to murder for me? Hey, I was only responsible for their deaths in, well, you know, a moral sense. I didn't pull the triggers or anything. Blaming me for those would be like saying that the deal I offered Michael directly led to AnaLucia and Libby getting capped. I mean, come on, I was no where near there at the time, okay? I totally have an alibi for those.So, to recap: John, Jacob, Alex, my Dad, all of Dharma, the merc's who weren't Keamy, Michael and everyone who was on the freighter, I'm sorry. Sayid's hits, AnaLucia and Libby, you can't pin those on me. Keamy and guys on horses with rifles who attacked me in the desert? Totally had it coming.So, okay, that's a lot of dead folks, but come on, everyone deserves a second chance at a happy ending, right? It's not like I'd strangle a high school principal just to get a promotion or anything. Honest.
-
Sorry, a couple of my posts this morning had drop-outs. Here's the rest of what I wanted to say about Michael Giaccino's Lost music:I am only rarely one of those folks who picks random inoffensive comments to disagree with, and Zilla, I am in almost complete agreement with you on this point... except...Oddly enough, this episode (Dr. Linus) contained a bit of music that had me gritting my eyes and rolling up my teeth. Pendulous Hugo Reyes marching through the jungle, down the side of a treacherous twisting slope, belly swaying to the tune of a bit of doot-do-doot-de-doo baby elephant walk "comedy relief" music. One very small isolated moment from 5.4 seasons of brilliant work, but I'm afraid it how you say "struck the wrong note" with me. All is forgiven and everyone makes mistakes, I just hope that's not the new recurring Hurley Theme. He deserves better.I don't think I have ever craved or dreampt of "Cheese Curds" in my life. Or woken talking about food. Every episode, especially the drama-heavy ones, needs a few moments of levity. But something better than Hurley fat jokes and comedy music, please.
-
If we assume MIB is bad and imprisoned to keep him from being unleashed on the world....then couldn't there be a possibility that he doesn't leave and that only Jacob is replaced...by Aaron.
-
Invited us to ask who is Ben. Is he the man whose history we have seen on the island? Or is there the possibility that he can be this other person we see in the side-backs? Does it matter which back story brought him to now? Whether the past actually happened or not? Isn't history open to interpretation? Who are we to judge what Ben is. Ilana says she'll take him as he is. Is she right to forgive him for killing her substitute father? Does that in anyway absolve him for killing his own father? Or mean that Alex forgives him too? Is Ben capable of making the choices on the island that he makes in the side-backs? Do circumstances decide our fate and our character, or do we get to decide ourselves? This makes me think of Dogen's baseball for some reason. Or the coin that Chigurh likes to toss.
-
If we assume MIB is bad and imprisoned to keep him from being unleashed on the world....then couldn't there be a possibility that he doesn't leave and that only Jacob is replaced...by Aaron.
-
So, is he already at the Hydra with Jin? I am starting to worry that when Sawyer said 'Hell yes', Flocke pushed him off a cliff.
-
Since Ilana seems to know so much and thinks of Jacob as a father. It seems to echo much of the Ben/Alex thing. Could Ilana be from an older time period. We don't know how she came to be burned up in a hospital in Russia, perhaps Jacob sent her to this future to help in this final battle. She could have been his "adopted" child when Jacob was a living person (assuming he took over from someone himself).
Remember also that when Jacob visit Ilana at the hospital that he wore gloves and wouldn't touch her. His touch would have altered her in someway and he was concerned/cared enough to avoid touching her. -
...how is Sawyer getting out of the cave?....the ladder is toast.
-
- Great episode!
- Richard should've said "What the hell is a cyborg?"
- so if or when the island sinks and they sail off in the Black Rock...if that happens, I say the music swells, everyone left hugs each other, staring into the sunset, and then five minutes later that ship sinks like its namesake, a black rock.
- Desmond is invisible, just like our beloved lighthouse
- I enjoy this TB, even those considered by some to be trolls! -
When I was a teenager there was this show called Lost in Space and I totally had a fan crush on Angela "Penny" Cartwright. But I felt guilty about it, like I was taboo-busting, because she was several years younger than me. Which is a big deal when you're in your mid-teens.Funny thing is, I much later learned that her birthday was just a couple weeks after mine. Yeah, she played a 14 year old on TV, but she was actually 17 when she was doing it, and so was I.Point being, if Tania "Alex Rousseau" Raymonde is TWENTY-TWO years old, whether the mental image of her with Jeff Goldblum skeeves you or not, and even is you picture her with her hair in braids or pigtails and wearing a Japanese Schoolgirl outfit, the fact is that 22 is a fine ripe age for someone to be lusted after. Think Alex is hot? Hey, no harm, no foul.to recap: Oisin, not a vulgar creep, and Alex, a woman, not a little girl.
-
so its not wrong to lust after her. but hell she could be 17 and i still would but she isn't so i'm safe. :P
-
ACADEMY AWARD WINNER Michael Giacchino! Man, how many TV shows can claim they have one of those on their production roster? So awesome!!!
-
Richard's followup about how he can't kill himself, a la Arnie in T2.
-
may already have been posted:
Nestor Carbonell says that the ninth and fifteenth episode of the currently airing final season will be the episodes that answer almost all the remaining mysteries of the series says Digital Spy.
Those episodes will air March 23rd and May 4th respectively. -
In 12 days, Tania Raymonde will turn 22 years of age. Well above the legal age of consent.
At last check, Tania has been dating actor (and BrundleFly) Jeff Goldblum, who will turn 58 this October.
I think any 'oogling' of Miss Raymonde's 'schoolgirl assets' by us talkbackers is all in good fun, and not in the least 'creepy'.
What would have been creepy, was if Alex hugged Ben for getting the principal to write her letter of recommendation, and gave him a friendly peck on the cheek...then a slow pull away...still locked in their tight embrace...and then...their eyes lock...and a sudden passionate, full on french kiss makeout session ensued.
Just thank God we aren't watching "Melrose Island". THAT would have been beyond 'pervy'.
-
Bait and switch. I'll be hatin it
-
did Locke die?
-
Pass me a bucket of pitch!
*glub* -
Obviously. Jacob gave Richard a gift- he'll never age. Jacob touched everyone else who was a candidate in an effort to bring them to the Island. Perhaps a side effect of the touch is you can't kill yourself- explains Jack not jumping, Michael not shooting, and Locke not being able to hang himself. That does NOT mean they can't be killed by others, as Richard explained last night.
-
The dynamite didn't explode because that would have been, in effect, Jack killing himself.
-
...Still wonderin where that came from... know it shouldnt matter, but i hate the fact you think i would have three logins (well technically i do cuz i never deleted my other two names, which one was mraholeramirez)... ill take bein called an idiot but a super loser, na...
-
If Ben went to the island as a kid, did he leave before or after he was taken into the temple and they did something to him? Should he have still been changed, or was everybody freed when Jacob died?
-
Hahaha, I said to the woman "This scene needs [baby] Stewie playing his tuba and Hurley respond with 'its a glandular problem!!'"
-
...Daniele obviously never crashed on the island but i wonder what her career choice is now (cant be good if she has two jobs)... bein a sub is easy (at least in MD), my friend is a sub and has been for years (even somehow got promoted to bein a math teacher until he fought a student lol, but now he is a assistant girls basketball coach)... im thinkin Locke may be smokieish, wit what he said to Ben seemed very manipulative... and wtf, people are praisin Bens performance? you guys havent noticed that Ben is the SHOW!... i like Hurley when he is in danger, his face always say it all... and Miles is cool (and most be a great digger to get those diamonds)... and maybe Artz is smokie too, he has been too prominent in the FS...
-
I thought it was an interesting new melody for LOST. It was somewhat ominous. I didn't get a "comic" vibe from it at all. Except for the fact that it was ominous music playing while Hurley walked.
-
Not disputing that it may have been for a different reason but he explicitly used the words touch and gift. To wit, Locke dying. Couple of thoughts. One possibility is Jacob just needed Locke not to die when he fell out of the window. Or the touch meant he would be able to walk on the island. So it was an example, as with Richard, of giving a gift - the use of his legs on the island, as opposed to not ageing, or being marked as a candidate or whatever touching the rest did. There's a quote around somewhere answering a question about when Jacob visited people to touch them. Can't remember the question or the answer but Lindelof inverted it slightly or teased a different emphasis. Could it be Jacob touched Hurley after Locke was dead? This was right before Ajira, setting up the guitar case with the new list and also Jacob talking to Hurley on the island - although Hurley already saw dead people, so whether this was a gift from being touched that time I'm not sure. So there's a few questions here. Why were Sun and Jin both touched and the confusion about which Kwon? Is it there kid? Why be so oblique about it? Is there an advantage to keeping secret information? Why was Hurley touched so late. Why was Sayid also touched after leaving the island? Particularly given what he does when back on the island. Why was Locke touched by Jacob but then killed and used as a likeness by MIB? Shepherd. #23. Is that Jack? Could it be Christian? Aaron? David? Jack was touched as an adult. Is it significant that Kate and Sawyer were touched as children? Oh, this was the question. Lindelof said a better question might be WHEN was Jacob watching the candidates. So Kate and Sawyer have been on his radar the longest, because he visited them as children? Are they the most important then? And the others he picked up when he needed them for some specific purpose as he tweaked his plan? I find it interesting that Hurley and Sayid have contact with Jacob and Ilana right before going back to the island. That's after Jacob goes to see Ilana. So clearly this is a late development in Jacob's plan as he scrambles to defend against MIB's moves. Random question. Since we've seen flash sideways and time travel now, I wonder if we might see a place and time when people aren't the ages in relation to each other that we expect them to be. And still totally absent from all of this is how Desmond's version of time travel fits into everything. What's the deal with his gift?
-
...Peebles must be a ass man wit all those ass shots (think one was on Miles)... why Ben run like a bitch? come on now, he is badass... i understand Jacks reasonin that he is special but just showin one image of your house and writin your name in wood is not concrete enough to grow such balls, i mean i have a pen and google maps, would Jack think he is special cuz i wrote his name down while showin him a satelite view of a house... Bens glasses suck, i hate those types... and why couldnt Ben get a handshake at least from Jack durin the reunion? come on Jack!
-
Um, just had a thought. You're not going to like it. and if I'm right, you're really not going to like it and If this is really what they do and you think I spoiled it, you will really really hate this, or me. Unless you stop reading here.But it's just a far-fetched theory, this can't be what's going to happen.1.) First, the Island has entities with selective visibility. NonLocke and Ford see KidInWHite, Richard can't. Hurley sees Jacob'sGhost, Jack can't. John heard Cabin Jacob, Ben couldn't. Selective visibility, the power to only appear to certain people.2.) Our friend Ed Shrinker once sent me screen caps proving that Jin was NOT on the bridge of the freighter before it exploded. We thought he was, we saw him waving at the chopper singing "hey, don't you forget about me" as they took off, then the explosion. But what's on the screen is canon and shots of the freighter before it blew up shows No Jin, no stunt man and no stand-in OldNavySupermodelquin handing in it's stand.3.) Even folks who consider Sun and Jin borderline redshirt minor characters are aware that for about a year and a half we've had an ongoing sub-plot about when and if they would finally be reunited. No, no if, just when, and the call is that the Sun/Jin-centric ep will tie up the airport and cooler bondage cliffingers in the FlashSides and the awaited Kwon reunion in the island story. This seasons version of the Rose and Bernard reunion, or the Dez & Panny get together from last year.But um, wait a second now, keep an open mind here...Dogen to Sahid: "he will appear to you in the form of a person you know to be dead."4,) Michael was with the bomb. Jin was on the deck. The helicopter was in the air. The freighter exploded, Sun screamed, we were lead to believe he was dead. Slo-mo freeze frame examination of the split second before the explosion shows no one on the deck, leading us to assume Jin jumped into the water.The helicopter headed back towards the Island Ben turned the FDW. The Island disappeared.Jin later appeared on the island. We are led to assume that there was a ring of influence around the island and it took Jin too, although he was in the water swimming towards the island at the time.And not to be trollishly sarcastic about this point, but cancel Hawaii 5-0 and cast the SubMariner movie, because that means that Jin can swim faster than a helicopter can fly, because the chopper, which was NOT taken with the Island vanished, had to have been closer to the island than Jin, who was swimming from several miles out, was.5.) But wait, silly Lost viewer who never understands anything, what are you trying to say here? Well, it appears that it may be possible that, um, hey, this theory is not in stone, just be open minded and consider it, okay?Maybe, what if...6.) JIN either died in the explosion or drowned in the ocean while swimming towards an Island that was no longer there. But how can that be, we've seen this so-called "Dead" Jin on an island on which an allegedly evil Djinn takes the form of dead people? That would mean all the time-jump appearances of Jin during the entire season were actually some smoke-moster entity posing as him. But that would be crazy, what kind of show would spend an entire year showing us a character who turns out to have been dead all along and impersonated by... um, oh, wait, NonLocke/MIB. Yeah, they can do that, right.Not possibly a Spoiler:7.) In the Sun/Jin -centric ep, on Island Jin arrives at the beach site and everyone wonders why Sun isn't rushing to embrace him. Finally someone says to her "Sun, look, don't you see? It's Jin!" and she replies "What? Where? I don't see anyone."freaking [POOM] Lost...
-
Jack's a different man. Ben is redeemed. Come on, do the right thing and acknowledge one another.
-
...Who are the six candidates? shepherd, sayid, kwon, hurley, sawyer? thats five, is Miles or Frank one? Claire?... how long has Sun/Jack been on the island the sec time? less or more than a week?... Was is Sawyer spankin it to that mag? if so, did he need glasses to do so?... how did Ben get his grave so rectangular?... and has Ben ever had sex?
-
Either Ilana still counts Locke, or she's bumped him off and included Jin AND Sun. Or she's including Kate, but I thought her name had been crossed off at the wheel. Someone told me last night it was not crossed off. (?)
-
...I like your train of thought but it would be pointless showin Jin watch smokie kill the expedition team or whatever... and if Jin is dead, maybe Des is too...
-
I think we can rule them out as being candidates at this point.
-
She clearly knows who the remaining candidates are based on their last names... So why tell Bram that Lapidus *might* be a candidate in last season's finale? I think she knows Lapidus once was a candidate, but he's not anymore. Hurley, Jack, Sawyer, Sayid, Kwon + Kwon. Or I guess its possible that she's crossed Sayid off the list too. And maybe Lapidus was on it before. Hurley, Jack, Sawyer, Lapidus, Kwon, Kate? Meh. Its really a mystery I'm not that interested in at this point.
-
...Im now leanin that mib i evil (but Jacob is still a douche), but he seems sorta genuine wit peoples wishes... so my thing is, Jacob wants to protect the island and MiB wants to leave... im sure it would be bad if he left, but he seemed to be tellin the truth bout lettin Ben protect the island... now, we dont know the extent of MiBs evilness, but if Jacob such a freewill person he could let MiB choose to leave and the island would still be protected by either Jacob or Ben... i dunno
-
...He said somethin like you wont believe where i was, but it couldnt have been the Black Rock cuz when they was there, its been the first time in ages... also, i guess its safe to say the natives/ hostiles of the island are the Black Rock people, but what happened to everyone else? was Rich the only one touched? and it would been nice if Rich said how the Rock got to that point of the island...
-
Wait, you're Mraholeramirez> Dude, why didn't you say so? I'm Napoleon.First, the director being an ass man? with an Ilana and Alex episode, how could that possible be a complaint. Okay, as Conan always said in his Clinton impression, "I like-a the boobies", but shoving a camera in for a 45 second closeup of Ilana's generous pulchritude would be a bit exploitative, while showing people marching or running from behind, perfectly natural for an action show.Although remember how it used to rain on the show all the time back in season one? I want a Kate in too tight t-shirt and wrong size push up bra in a wet t-shirt downpour action figure now.And your other point, why did Ben run? Um, woman with rifle who plans to kill you at point A. You, at grave site, point B. Your only hope of not dying, rifle leaning against tree, at point F.As a Doctor not named Linus is fond of saying: "RUNNN!!!"Which doctor? Who. Witchdoctor? No, the Witchdoctor says ooo-ee-oo-ah-ah, ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang. Doctor Who says "RUNNN!!!"
-
I will keep asking this, because I want to know! That split second shot of dude in cabin way back when ... WHO WAS IT????
-
...He was givin Kate the "im goin to blow your back out" grin to Kate in the promo...
-
I don't think I ever realized that was his middle name...since he is Mr. Time travel, then maybe HE is Jacks son.....just got to find a way to get him that accent that fits with that theory....any ideas?
-
MIB crossed Locke off the list but not Sayid but he might not have been up to date on developments at the temple. There's the question of whether the lighthouse and the cave regard the same people as being the best candidates too. Plus some of the crossed out names weren't dead. Is the reverse true? Is it possible to be a candidate whilst also being dead, LOL. Seems likely Kate is a candidate cause she was visited by Jacob as a child. Yet some are saying the candidates are all men. Frank was mooted last year but there's no evidence he is. I'm not sure we can take for granted who the candidates are at all. And what exactly the difference is between being on the list, being a candidate, and being THE candidate. Ilana says there are six though. So who does she need to protect? It sounds like Sawyer is protected under the rules. He's in. Hurley and Jack have been explicitly told. They're in. Ilana says one Kwon but not sure which one. That's four. She asks after Sayid at the temple. So presumably he's still in. So the sixth is Kate, or Locke somehow? I think this is going to develop to be honest and will be open to interpretation from different sides. Mistakes will be made. Assumptions challenged.
-
you stretch it too much, in two key ways.
1) You insist that what is on screen is canon. Tell me, does that include the scuba divers which have appeared on screen? (The safety divers, they've been caught in a few scenes). Of course not.
2) You seem to have forgotten how Jin got to the island. Not by swimming fast, but time-flash and pick up by Rousseau's boat. -
Christian, Desmond, some others who clearly have some island purpose, perhaps shouldn't be ruled out too hastily, regardless of what names we've seen scratched down. I take it Ben is not a candidate. Ilana clearly does not regard him as such. Presumably Locke was lying to him about letting him keep the island. I've outlined up thread why I think KATE should be THE Can Did Kate, but I think everybody's sick of hearing about that, LOL.
-
Strikes me as the type of guy who won't much care if he's a candidate or not. He'll pretty much act like a candidate until somebody shoots him. He ain't asking for permission!
-
...Yea i was suprised last week to learn of your past life as Nap (you and Vades are the only ones i can remember from past seasons tbs, but where is locksbrokenleg?)... but i didnt think my ahole name would be memorable, ho yea!... but i love the ass, just funny that we get ass shots from a black director... and bout Ben runnin, i meant wit his arms swayin and stuff, it looked so funny (especially when he threw that shovel)...
-
I hope we get an episode which is basically a sort of treasure hunt of shifting reversals bluffing and double bluffing what the line up of candidates actually is. There's an episode coming up called The Last Recruit so maybe that will be what they do. It seems like a good opportunity for a few surprises and twists, and coming near the end, nobody can count on the rules to keep them alive. Another thing is Jacob dying seems to have impacted how things work on the island. So it might be interesting in this process of power being reconsolidated they enter a phase during which the understanding is that rules don't apply. The rules are for setting up the chess board. When the game is LOST and WON the rules don't apply. Until the game begins again.
-
...All the reunion scenes are great wit that music playin, but LOST screwed up by not havin Vincent reunite wit them also... that would have really made it an emotional pay off...
-
Locke showed them to us: Locke, Hurley, Jack, Sawyer, Sayid, Kwon. There's the 6. 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
-
Many names were seen on the Magic Wheel of Time. Ben's name was there. And it was crossed out. Pretty much everyone who's been on the show was a candidate at some point.
-
...I think the survivin freighters are important... seems like it wit Frank explainin his story...
-
From what we've seen this season and all the candidate stuff I think it makes sense that...Jacob = Willy WonkaJacob has been 'inviting' people to the island for a very long time looking for a replacement for himself - Just like Willy.If this holds true that means that...
MIB (aka Fake Locke, etc...) = Mr. Slugworth (aka Mr. Wilkinson)If Hurley only knew. LOL -
I stopped watching LOST after the first hiatus in the first season. I liked it, but I wasn't desperate to find out what happened. I never picked it back up.But through no fault of my own I ended up catching the rebroadcast of season 5's finale, before the 6 premiere, and there we all these show notes going on at the bottom of the screen that told me what everything meant in relation to everything else and why I should care. So I've been watching this season. It's really good. Has it always been this good?Question for the faithful but honest: I don't feel LOST hehehe with the trajectory of the season. Perhaps I'm missing the nuance and some of the impact of what's going on, but I find it pretty entertaining. Do I need to go back and catch up on the rest of the series as soon as I can, or do you think it will be alright if I just ride out to the finale?
-
I'm not saying that this theory is impossible - but the biggest problem I have with it is that Jin met MiB in Claire's tent, and MiB is stuck in his form as Locke now apparently. Which means that MiB would have had to be Locke and Jin at the same time... which I think is beyond MiB's capability
-
...I think the survivin freighters are important... seems like it wit Frank explainin his story...
-
Has anyone made this connection yet? Twice this season Ben has been told what the final thoughts were of the two important men he murdered- Locke and Jacob. This has impacted him greatly and I think is responsible for his redemption in some ways. Great to think about, though. Locke was confused and sad, and Jacob was rooting for Ben in the end.
-
Is that right? You've seen probably half of the first season, the finale of the fifth season, and now all of Season 6? That's IT?!?! Why YES it HAS always been this good! You've missed out! But I am VERY glad to hear that the popup videos have been helping people like yourself.
-
Since there's a difference between being on the list, being a candidate, and being THE candidate, I suppose there's wiggle room with regards to people who should know better saying someone MIGHT be a candidate. But then, was it Bram who said that? Ilana knew better than Ben about going after Sayid in the temple, started to correct him then couldn't be bothered. Bram clearly knew a bit but wasn't as important as Ilana. Similarly, in the jungle, the others said Jin might be one of THEM, but they weren't sure. Actually, that does need explaining. Why did they come out with that, when Jacob had to tell Hurley to explicitly tell Dogen that he and Jack were candidates. Was Dogen just bluffing about being so threatening? Oh, I suppose it can be handwaved one way or another. But is there a possibility being one of them isn't the same as being one of the candidates? We need explanations of the significance of leaving the island or staying on it, (the o6 and especially whether Aaron is supposed to have left the island) the significance of flashing through time or not flashing through time, the significance of getting dowsed in island energy via frozen donkey wheel or incident or hatch explosion, the significance of leaving the island via frozen donkey wheel as opposed to normally, the significance of being infected or claimed, the significance of being scanned by the monster, the significance of being born on the island, the significance of being conceived on the island, the significance of being brought to the island as a dead corpse, the significance of having a constant on the island, the significance of being a substitute, the significance of being a recruit, the significance of being touched, the significance of being watched, the significance of being a candidate, the significance of being protected by the rules. Amongst other things.
-
is that a shout out to the great Terry O'Quinn movie The Stepfather? Yeah, there seems to be a surprising turnover in the AICN Lost talkback standbys. Chief Brody is still here and PaBurrows is 4we8have...etc.Some of the old crew only visits the Room blog to avoid spoilers, I think a few may still be lingering in the 5th season finale tb as a private clubhouse, I think Rizzos been with us for a few years now. Of this years crop, I think MacFaux's actually been around for a while, I find Josh interesting... and there are a LOT of them where it's hard to tell if they're serious, kidding or trolling. But if you can't tell, you have to read them with an open mind.Then there's Tex in his own league, this years Gabriel Gray, if anyone remembers him from the year one Heroes tbs.
-
Well, good to know that if I ever catch up on the rest of it, it will worth it. I actually think it might be interesting to see how it all plays out and THEN go back to the beginning to see if it hangs together.
-
Because the guy/girl candidate ratio needs to be more balanced.
It is silly reasoning I know, but that is what I will go with for now. -
hopefully happily ever aftering it back in 1977. Hope Madison, the actress who plays Vincent is doing all right. Very popular character, even if she was a real dog.[and I forgot to mention long-timer RBrog who checked into this tb a couple of times. Who else has been with us in years past; with same or previous names? Sound off.]
-
Was some dude had seen this cool looking series about a plane crash in the jungle being broadcast on some weird satellite frequency he picked up on his big dish because TV folks use stuff like that to transmit oh fucked if I remember the explanation of how he claimed to have seen it but it was like that. Blatantly he was a PLANT. From the island. Cause the word of mouth was ridiculously strong on LOST from that point on. This was ages before the pilot actually aired, I think.
-
If Walt had aged 42 years since season one... Well, there's the Madison/Vincent problem, dog years. Hope she can come out of retirement for a finale cameo, I know the dog lovers love her.
-
Because Locke is supposedly dead. So either Locke wasn't touched, or those who have been touched can kill each other. However, that would be working on the assumption that Ben had been touched (or touched Jacob, which he did). Errr...
-
Some time around Autumn 1997, no doubt reading Star Wars spoilers, amongst other bits and pieces.
-
Heh. Just goin' for the low-hanging fruit here.
-
Interested in what his opinion is. I can't seemt to recall if he has listed the blu-rays in the DVD columns.
-
I was able to buy it because, as I saw it, the only point was Ben doing something good for Alex. It was an opposite to what happened on the island. It does fall in line with the way large parts of this season have been written (regardless of how many people are completely blind to this fact). But it also falls in line with the general vibe of LA X time. "Real world" character redemption.
-
... nutjobs! lol You do understand that this is the internet and you are anonymous, right? Nothing you say is going to make you famous, or infamous, or even popular. Jeezus I think there must be a bunch of teenagers and special needs people in these talkbacks.
-
thats why Jacob touched them both, and said "don't take your love for granted". He needed to be sure they stayed together and conceived Ji Yeon on the island.
-
...annoyance comes from, it's in regard to the "who has been here for how long"? I've been posting in Lost talkbacks for years. Does it matter? No. Neither do you.
-
and the smoke monster was the part of his essence that he needed to get out and start his plan, thus the ash ring
-
C'mon, guys....really? Upset Ben got shown no love by Jack at the beach reunion? Ya wanna know why?
Ben hasn't EARNED that handshake yet.
Look....Jack's been in 1977 tryin to figure out what the hell he's doin on this island all this time...Ben's been murdering Ceasar and Jacob in the present. WE 9the audience) know what those two have been up to...but they (as characters) have NO IDEA what each other has been up to...or what 'spiritually enlightening' moments they have both just RECENTLY experience.
Ben just learned he was a 'candidate' last nite...Jack less than a day before. Jack had a 'moment to reflect' on a cliff...Ben had a revelation holding that gun on Ilana last night.
It doesn't mean that just because they have BOTH turned a corner ("Jack's a different man. Ben is redeemed.") doesn't mean THEY each realize that point upon seeing each other on the beach after being apart for so long.
Had Jack sauntered up and shook Ben's hand last night, and each exchanging 'knowing' smiles at each other...I would have vomited from a 'cheesy' overdose.
Ben's arc in the story is all but over after last nite's revelations...the ONLY THING left for him to do in this story IS to EARN that handshake from Jack.
Give them some time! Jesus Christ!
-
Those names being scratched out. So the six important ones just happen to be the last six names to be scratched out? Bollocks. For all we know they all get scratched out and they wait for more people to come to the island, then scratch all their names out too. But I mean it must be a bit frustrating if all these years they've been watching candidates and scratching out names but it's all pointless because nothing really important can happen until the last six names to be scratched out arrive on the island in 2004. So I don't know if the cave and the lighthouse can be quite what we're assuming. Also the Locke thing is a puzzle. There was an old spoiler that must have been a foiler ages ago cause this would already of aired which did have something about a list from Jacob (must be the scroll) but then going to the Black Rock and the names of the LOSTIES being there with numbers and places for them to sit and one of them being for KWON but KATE took that place instead. I only just remembered this five seconds ago cause we saw The Black Rock again last night. But I think there was some hint in this spoiler that they match up people to the names at the Black Rock and then something happens to them. But clearly this isn't what we're seeing happen on screen. Yet clearly whoever foiled it had knowledge of elements of what was going on. But Locke can't be part of all that, cause Locke's dead. Does Ilana still regard Locke as a candidate? Remember Smokey screaming in the jungle don't tell me what I can't do? Maybe Locke is dead but maybe he can reclaim the form that MIB is in now as John Locke and that could be how they beat him. And then John Locke can be a candidate again? Cause I don't think he's climbing out of that grave. Another possibility. The candidate stuff will happen in the side-backs. That's the testing ground. Ilana has to protect them on island and get them as far as the side-backs? The outcome of 2007 causes the side-backs. Then the outcome of the side-backs causes a new situation on the island for the finale? Could that be what we're looking at? I'm still half expecting some reversal where some scene we've previously seen in a past season is revealed not to have taken place when and where we think it ought to have done. And they go, a ha, the time travel, the consciousness travel, the side-backs, this was a part of all of that and we hid it in plain sight and it was important and it helps us set up some twist or other right now. The question of when Jacobs visited people, and the fact clearly his plans are in flux as he works to out manoeuvre his opponent... remember the scene on the beach where it is implied that there may have been repeated iterations with similar outcomes? And there is a dispute about whether they can learn anything or change anything or prove anything by playing one another? Jacob and MIB just as the Black Rock shows up presumably. Are we looking at different groups of candidates coming the island and being tested, or different time loops with the same people winning and losing in different combinations but never with the desired outcome for those pulling the strings? Because then these six names being the final pieces might make sense. This is the closest they've ever got to getting the jigsaw pieces to fit. This is the iteration in which they solved the puzzle. And then - the reward is the island at the bottom of the ocean? I dunno, there's a lot that doesn't make sense about this business with the numbers and names, even though it was a great way of explaining so much else. I like where it's going and think it's going to be a good story.
-
Well Ed came down with Cancer because of this he went down the same route as off island OC 6 Jack went with persription medicines and about a year ago the crap hit the fan. His Father died, his dog died and he ended up going to jail for his drug problems. He is currently in there and Im writing him. Things are starting to improve, but its still a nasty place. He really has to keep his head down since there are a lot of people in there who would kill you just for looking at them wrong. I ask for respect if anyone brings comments on this.
-
Go skull fuck yourself you motherless cunt.
-
secret last name. Y'now, like cats and demons? Wallace, maybe?
And I've been around since S2, although only lurking in the shadows 'til recently. -
Every slow motion "montage" LOST has ever done...from way back in SEASON 1....all the way to THE 06 REUNION in Hawaii with their families & friends back home...They ALL had one thing in common:
At least ONE person in each of those 'reunuion' scenes...gets left with no one to reunite WITH!
Last night....it was Ben's turn. That's all. -
...Na the name is just somethin that i thought would be memorable (and i hope to do some of the tbers moms lol)... i just went and looked at my old posts as mr ahole and man o man, was i a lil hater lol (but this was when i was not a true fan) but i still have the same thoughts (love for Vincent and Sawyer, hatred of minorities bein killed off)... and it would be great to see Vincent wit the 815Ers again seein as he is the third best fictional dog behind pot head Scoobie and Buck Bundy...
-
I interpreted that figure that Locke saw a flash of to be Christian. Did anyone see that? It looked just like him...... now, add that to the "help me" that Locke heard, and i'd say we definitely need a Christian centered episode in order to get some good answers...... if Christian and Locke (the 2nd time around) both landed on the island as dead bodies..... why was Christian's coffin the only one that was empty?
-
...I agree Ben and Jack dont know whats goin on wit each other but to me, they BONDED off the island... a handshake would been great cuz it would be like "oh shit? youre still alive? i thought a smoke monster would have killed you. oh well, good shit sir. by the way, ive been time travellin and shit and oh yea, i saw you as a kid."
-
Good governor, this is a long talk-back. At first I didn't like last nights ep, but this morning I was able to put my finger on why. A lot of you talked about it, but it was very clearly the beginning of the end. Kinda the last "main" character we were introduced to, Ben, has finished his arc. He has fully evolved to a point where we have to leave him be. I don't think in any way with 9 eps to go before the finale they'll start his journey up again. I think that's the last we will see of conniving bad-ass baton wielding Ben. And that's kinda sad. I will say I'm very much looking forward to what I'm hoping will be a truly heroic Ben from here on out but I won't hold my breath.
-
As prob'ly the only one here still using the VCR, I paused the tape, (at the time of the figure in the cabin scene)and what I saw was Locke's crinkly bug-eye. At the time I didn't know what to make of it, just figured it was some David Lynch-style weirdness.
-
...Has Jack ever seen Christians dead body? cuz we know now he is the most central, main character regardin the island esp if his body is missin in both realities... and now i can fully say what this show is about (daddy issues)...
-
Jacob doesn't want to be replaced. MIB does. But they have to leave the island together. So Jacob trapped MIB. When MIB is able, he tries to get candidates to replace Jacob. Jacob takes steps to render the candidates ineligible. He is very very good at this. What usually happens is MIB is forced to cross out all the names. And the loop for some reason keeps reiterating. Every time MIB has to cross out all the names. If he can just get one, ANY one candidate, past Jacob, to replace him, then MIB can go home. And this is the iteration in which MIB thinks he has the loophole to beat Jacob. It's going down to the wire but these are the candidates who just happen to matter because for the purposes of what MIB thinks will work and this time the outcome will be different. And Jacob is scrambling because he sees the danger and perhaps he has been subverting the rules a bit to stay in power and its not necessarily good versus evil but whether to go home or not go home and perhaps the island needs to be restored to the proper state of affairs which is the third path. And MIB isn't evil he just wants to go home and Jacob isn't evil he just wants to stay on the island and protect it but whereas MIB will let anyone be the candidate in order to go home if Jacob realises his time is up he has reason to be very specific about who can and can't take over from him and having had his subversion rumbled he's going to take the rules seriously and be very particular about how it unfolds. He never breaks the rules, Jacob just cheated to his advantage, which he felt was in the interests of the island. Now MIB forces him to relinquish power, Jacob has been doing things he shouldn't, but is more responsible in tidying things up than MIB will be in his rush to go home. Well it is simple except I just kept repeating myself LOL.
-
...Thats funny... and i know how you feel bout bein accused of havin multiple logins... at least you got called someone people knew whereas my supposed logins is very lackluster... never even heard of those guys til last night...
-
Everyone thinks Linus has been 'redeemed'....his story is 'over'.
No. He has 'seen the error of his ways'.
Ben has a long way to go before he is 'redeemed' in this story. Will we get to see him be a badass again? Um...don't know if you noticed it or not...but his personal 'arch enemy' is toolin around in a sub just offshore.
Ben's story is far from over. -
No, I liked it, it just left me feeling sad last night.('cause that's the level of pathetic my life has reached)/deelzbub-I taped seasons 3-5 on a vcr.
-
So Jacob tries to have candidates removed so no-one replaces him, and MIB tries to keep candidates in play, and doesn't care which one replaces Jacob. But so far, Jacob always wins. And they've been playing a long time, in a loop. And they argue about what this means about human nature. Jacob thinks he's doing the right thing, but that may be open to interpretation. Once Jacob realises he can be beaten he is very responsible about finding the best successor to protect the island. He thinks he is the best candidate. But if it can no longer be him, he wants the best choice. MIB is not as responsible. He will take short cuts cause he's sick of this and wants to go home. He doesn't believe Jacob any more that the island needs a protector, perhaps because it's convenient for him to believe this so they can leave. Once Jacob and MIB are replaced, their successors may choose to interpret the rules completely differently, because they have different personalities and their relationship with each other and their understanding of the island is different. One might be cast as good and the other bad from different points of view, but it isn't necessarily so. There will be good and bad on both sides.
-
...Will they explain why the others can leave the island and why there is other others workin outside the island? cuz widdy got banished des leavin but we seen many people off island...
-
I really hope so. My only worry is that some peoples theory about Widmore being on Jacobs side is true. Which would suck. I so want Widmore to be the bad guy. He just plays evil so good.
-
The thing is, that split second shot did not look like the guy we were shown on the beach, sitting with Jacob. I don't think shapeshifting is the answer either. Well I mean maybe it WAS the MIB but it sure didn't look like him ... It's a minor thing really but it was such a great moment at the time it kind of annoys me that it's inconsistent.
-
...Last night was indeed sad... Bens sacrifice for someone sorta insignificant to him (meanin Alex, who is JUST a student), Rich losin hope, the reunion and Bens reasonin for killin a douche... now if Vincent had popped up i would had a salty watery discharge come from my occular cavities...
-
I think Richard's attempted suicide may shed light on the relationship between Jacob and MiB. What if Jacob and MiB were once one person, who split himself into two; one is the light part, and one is the dark part. Maybe this is a necessary step to become the island's protector. If this is the case, then MiB can't directly kill Jacob, because this would be the same as killing himself, which is physically impossible on the island, a la Richard.
-
There should be a trick at some stage. A character is led to believe by either Jacob or MIB that the person he is following is who he is being lined up to replace but actually a switcheroo is being planned and they don't get the role they're expecting. Also if there's a candidate to replace Jacob, could it be there are candidates to fulfil other purposes? Obviously MIB has a different agenda. Christian may do too. Are they necessarily looking for the same candidate? Not only could several people be contenders to be the candidate, could more than one be chosen? Alternatively, could one person be selected by all sides? What then? Not much of this has been explained yet.
-
But Jack is on his way to being enlightened. The last time he saw Ben was on the plane. Ben helped him gather his friends and get back to the Island. And Jack is still pissy about Ben being the one behind the lawyers threatening to take Aaron away? That's lame. This is the first time Jack has seen Sun and Lapidus since the time-travel. Same with Ben. He should still show Ben some respect in my opinion. After all the shit he's gone through, after the changes and improvement strides he's been making, I expected him to at least acknowledge the guy, not flat out ignore him.
-
I dunno....who do YOU see? I see Locke. Screen cap here:
http://lost.cubit.net/s4inv/4x01_cabin5.php -
...Like i said weeks ago, it would be great juxposition or contrast seein as a sad, worthless man who was a good man was used for evil just like a powerful, evil man could be used for good... a man who broke all the rules turns out to have broken said rules so he can go up against another rule breaker... plus, Wi essentially sent the most important char (regards to the mythos) to the island in the first place that led to the candidates comin to the island... just think bout that and let it sink in... he is the key to the islands locke...
-
What an incredible episode. Truly standout performances from Michael Emerson and Matthew Fox. The scene on the Black Rock with Jack and Richard was great. Ben and Ilyana's discussion in the jungle was Emmy worthy for Emerson (not that Ilana was bad either). Excellent off-island story paralleling Ben's progression on the island. I like the tempting of Ben by Unlocke and his subsequent rejection when finally accepted by one of "the good guys". Great direction by Mario Van Peebles, of all people. Geez, when I saw that name I was afraid for how this episode would turn out, but bravo! Best episode of the season so far, and I don't say that lightly. Kinda gives me a "holy CRAP, what the hell is coming in the Richard episode" kinda feeling. And I like it.
-
Oh my god. I'm so hurt. How will I ever recover. A special needs person who spends all day on an anonymous bbs posting over and over and over about the same shit making absolutely no sense attempted to insult me. Waaaah. About 20% of you people are seriously fucking mental. And I don't mean that as an insult. You need fucking help. It's just a TV show and your fragile little world is going to be terribly shattered when it ends and all the shit you're talking about means nothing. I'm out. Won't be back until the series finale when I can laugh at how wrong all of you were. Ta.
-
...Like i said weeks ago, it would be great juxposition or contrast seein as a sad, worthless man who was a good man was used for evil just like a powerful, evil man could be used for good... a man who broke all the rules turns out to have broken said rules so he can go up against another rule breaker... plus, Wi essentially sent the most important char (regards to the mythos) to the island in the first place that led to the candidates comin to the island... just think bout that and let it sink in... he is the key to the islands locke...
-
I promise you...Jack & Ben WILL bond over their new found roles on the island...
but to have showhorned that 'happy reunion' in last night's episode would have been more than 'ham fisted', IMHO.
Jack owes Ben NOTHING....yet. -
Mar 10, 2010 2:26:36 PM CST
I don't usually post in these Lost TBs despite being a big fan
by isleptwithkathybatesandallthatigotwasthi
...but I gotta say that this one of the best pieces of television i've seen this year. The entire sene with Ben's confession, and the "I'll have you" ending was heartbreaking.
-
The candidates turn out to be so because of some quirk of fate of where they happen to end up and who they are and what they do in some stage of island history and it's not so much that they're being selected now based on qualities or anybody having a choice it's more that entities are attempting to identify who is who to seek their own advantage from having that knowledge for a crucial slice of stuff about to go down that can be steered but not drastically altered because of the rules. In which case, the candidate might be open to persuasion from an entity to do what they say, but really the entity is overstating their authority and it's the candidates who are more important to the island than the usurpers. As such the candidates may have equal status any way. It's not what role they have to be given and by who and whether they're up to it. One isn't more important than the others by virtue of who is selected. The whole game is the latest in the series of ruses by authority figures who don't know as much as they say. Possibly the candidates together can restore a sense of balance to the island which others have rested away for their own personal advantage. Jacob might be trying to facilitate this but not even he really understands what the situation is. He's trying to interpret what is supposed to happen and how to ensure it much like other characters have done, for instance Faraday last season, or Desmond or Richard, he's just at such a high level of island knowledge compared to everyone else we don't see that Jacob too is in the dark. It'll turn out that the characters we know are actually more important to the island than Jacob, because the island knows its own history or it has happened before or the losties end up in the past or something. And then when all this is resolved, the decisions do lead to the character getting the LA X lives we're seeing in the side-backs.
-
It's the shot of the guy in the chair that I wonder about. I mean I suppose we can assume it's the same person, but that's the one the really made an impression
-
I think Jack DOES owe Ben some thanks for getting them to the Island, whether or not is for his own selfish reasons.
-
...Seemed very manipulative... maybe since onisland effects lax (jacks scar) then maybe MiB is still actin as Locke... but yea, last night ep reminded me i hate Locke (Flocke is cool tho)
-
There was a C S Lewis reference after all. But the series started with Jack's eye. What if these characters arrive on the island in 2004, some how have these immortal lives as the island gods, but ultimately are restored to 815 as if it never crashed, as if it all happened in the blink of an eye. But the lives they lived, though they don't remember them, determine how their circumstances are changed when they step off 815 as opposed to when they stepped on to it. The consequences are real, even though an eternity of living on the island flickers out in the blink of an eye.
-
why do the promos keep listing the wrong number of episodes left for?...they keep saying 'Only 9 more episodes left'...there are 18 episodes this season and even counting the 2 hour finale as 1 episode there are 10 episodes remaining
-
Well paced and I liked the Ben Island scenes a lot.
Also any episode with Miles, Hurley and LawnMower man in it cannot fail to be good.
I did think the LAX Ben scenes were somewhat redundant and would have been covered by the Island story. I'm also not a big fan of these cheesy little reunions thay have at the end of occasional episodes - Yeuk !!
Bit of progression in there. There wasn't a lot new but one key factor around timelines is the fact that, even in the LAX version of the world , some of the characters have interacted with the Island. That'll take a bit of assimilating.
Good point made by an earlier poster regarding Bens death tally so far - lets not get too weepy about him !!
Final headline - "Jack not an asshole this episode shocker !!!" -
The reunion reminded me of when Juliet joined the camp. everyone was hugging except for her. It took a number of catastrophies and her medical knowledge for the castaways to accept and trust her. Its the same with Ben, that trust has to be earned. Off Island the only reason that Jack even followed Ben was that he was in a very broken state and Ben had the answers. I believe they will bond somehow, but they need to work through the operation Con, the kidnappings and everything else that Ben has done to the Castaways.
-
...Its nothin about likin or respectin, its about "oh shit, youre still alive. good job"... i mean, Miles and Hurley hugged it out (i think)... why couldnt Jack just give Ben a shake and kept it movin... no smiles or nothin... just acknowledge their long history together... esp if Jack seemed upset at Lockes death and they butted heads way more (remember an imploded sub? stabbin Naomi?)... they have the same goals sorta and off island, they seemed to be cool wit each other... so Ben deserved a handshake!
-
...Its nothin about likin or respectin, its about "oh shit, youre still alive. good job"... i mean, Miles and Hurley hugged it out (i think)... why couldnt Jack just give Ben a shake and kept it movin... no smiles or nothin... just acknowledge their long history together... esp if Jack seemed upset at Lockes death and they butted heads way more (remember an imploded sub? stabbin Naomi?)... they have the same goals sorta and off island, they seemed to be cool wit each other... so Ben deserved a handshake!
-
...Juliet is and always has been a bit that no one knew... sure Ben has done wrong, but i think after seein so much death seein any familiar face is good... i mean, people have forgiven other chars such as Michael and Locke... plus i think Jack should understand why Ben did what he did (for the island)... if Jack was broken, im sure he understands Ben is somewhat broken too...
-
someone mentioned the selective visiblity of cabins and ghosts and outhouses and sso on. Just imagine if Hurley and/or Miles could see all the spirits on the island.. Not just the dead we have been privy to, but the dead from the different groups that Jacob/Esau have been toying with over the millenia. Bumping into spooks left and right! That would def explain the whispers.
-
Happily I don't need to wait until the series finale when I can laugh at you right now. What a maladroit, narcissistic miscreant you truly are. Your projecting onto this talk back gives you away darling, every time. You're a sad little wretch and everyone sees it. Good luck with the personality disorder, sweet cheeks. Kisses xxx
-
Am I going mad or when Jack went to light the fuse his face turned into Jacob's. I'm sure of it
-
But they are NOT incorrect with regard to how many NIGHTS of LOST we have remaining. (They make the mistake of calling them "episodes"). There are only 10 NIGHTS of LOST left.
The series finale is NOT on a Tuesday....it's on a Sunday...May 23rd....and will be a 2 hour finale....
8pm - LOST REPEAT of the episode airing Tuesday May 18th.
9pm - LOST Series Finale pt 1
10pm - LOST Series Finale pt 2
There will be an upcoming break in the Tuesday schedule for 1 episode for some reason this season....I think in April. So...
The new promo is NOT incorrect....It clearly says "Only 9 New Episodes Left...UNTIL the Series Finale". Which, if you count those 2 finale hours as 1 episode...makes 10.
However....the promos suck for me because they constantly imply "ANSWERS, ANSWERS, ANSWER ARE COMING!!"...when they are not necessarily ALL chock full of answers...Or that a character may die (as was implied in the promo for 'Dr. Linus'....with shots of Ben at the graveyard with Smokey noises approaching).
Bottom line...they are misleading and are NOT to be trusted...and Darlton has very little control over any of that...except what footage is allowed to be shown or not.
But...the episode tally is right. -
Darlton did once say that the series as a whole is very loosely patterned after Narnia.
-
so help me, if they try to make this whole machine dependent on Kate, I'll destroy every season of LOST that I own, and forcibly erase my own memory by drinking shoe polish. Regardless of how she was originally conceived, she has been realized as possibly the most consistently worthless character on the show (which tends to be the case with the vast majority of the regular female cast), and clearly used as a constant crutch by the writers whenever they need cheat in ratcheting up the drama. Further more, she's about as empowered, capable and formidable as Bella Swan in Twillight, which is to say not at all...........I can't even believe that an idea tossed around a talk back has got me this riled up.........(muttering angrily to myself)
-
Doesn't make either of us right or wrong. Done arguing about it.
-
so help me, if they try to make this whole machine dependent on Kate, I'll destroy every season of LOST that I own, and forcibly erase my own memory by drinking shoe polish. Regardless of how she was originally conceived, she has been realized as possibly the most consistently worthless character on the show (which tends to be the case with the vast majority of the regular female cast), and clearly used as a constant crutch by the writers whenever they need cheat in ratcheting up the drama. Further more, she's about as empowered, capable and formidable as Bella Swan in Twillight, which is to say not at all...........I can't even believe that an idea tossed around a talk back has got me this riled up.........(muttering angrily to myself)
-
Yep Kate is kind of irritating isn't she ?
-
yeah, I love the show, but Kate is a mess; for a while I thought it was just any female lead on the show, but I think Juliette broke the cycle of domestic abuse.....
-
for the audience could lead them to make kate the nexus of the whole story.....In fact, I could accept pretty much anything except Kate or Claire.
-
"This is an obvious reference to the relationship between MIB and Jacob as revealed in Episode 15, Across the Sea."
what? this episode doesn't air until May. what are you talking about?
-
Just wanted to be the first to admit, as I said I would, that I was clearly wrong, and Richard evidently did arrive on the Black Rock. So there is that.
Apart from that, wow, that was one incredible episode. If that didn't restore faith in the people who thought this was going nowhere then nothing will. Really powerful stuff.
And Jack! My boy, he finally gets it. He's not fighting it anymore, thank god. Instead of continuing to rebel a bit more until more was explained to him, he did what Jacob said he would, and noodled it out for himself. So proud of him. He knows there is a reason, and now he's going to do whatever it takes to find out what it is. That was fantastic. -
... But it wasnt arguin, it was debatin (the only difference is havin respect for each other and not droppin fag every other sentence)... but ok, we can disagree to agree...
-
And it sounded to me like she meant it sort of like, in the world, or in the whole game. Maybe all the names were set from the very beginning, with a limited amount, and our people are the final players. When looking at the cavewall I sort of got the feeling that when one "team" all ended up crossed off, jacob selected new ones and it just kept going. who knows, i just thought when she said she meant it in a drastic way, like not just six of our people, but six candidates left. period.
And, Welcome back to The Island Mr. Widmore. We've been expecting you. -
...I was tryin to remember who said Rich wasnt on the boat... and honestly i dont think the egyptian parts arent really important cuz the two entities are no where near egyptian lookin (well maybe in a white wash hollywood way)...
-
Sawyer, Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun/Jin and... Desmond I think.
-
We now know how he survived so long. He was a candidate. He threw himself into the fence, etc. and lived because he couldn't commit suicide.
-
Just slightly ahead of Evangeline. But man, Tania just keeps getting hotter and hotter every time we see her. I'm surprised Ben didn't try to manipulate her into an innapropriate relationship in the library. Not his daughter anymore...
Weird. -
I cry every time I see it.
Newhart was great too.
BSG is also up there.
But I think Lost may take it's place.
anyway I think the sideways timeline is the one that survives.
How we see them in it is how they will go on. Most seem to be in a much better place than they would have been in the previous one if the accident hadn't happened.
Whatever bad things that happened as a result of being touched by Jacob seem to have been rectified.
But they are different people than they were. Their attitudes. The proof is Jack's scar. Their obsession with looking in the mirror. Like the memories are there but they just can't consciously recall them.
Anyhow they seem to be redeeming themselves. Jack with his son. Ben with Alex. Locke found love. Sawyer and Kate are on the lam together.
Poor Richard. He's been there a long time. can't wait until his episode. -
...There will be a show created by Whedon starrin Emerson, Enver, Amy Acker, and JGL... also the show would never get canceled...
-
The Island is a...DOJO
-
...Commit suicide? i wonder how that works (meanin was Dave a ghost or island manifestation)...
-
The six
by ThrowMeTheIdol Mar 10th, 2010
04:15:55 PM
Sawyer, Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun/Jin and... Desmond I think.
I wouldn't count Charles Whidmore out.
-
When we first meet her I think because she seemed nuts she looked less hot. But a few episodes before she dies I started getting semi-boners whenever she was on screen. She started to look hotter and hotter. And last night, very hot.
-
Actually its Sawyer, Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun/Jin and Sayid
-
I've jerked it to her. I'll be her "Daddy". LOL
-
watching her masturbate with everything around the house was fun.
-
on Malcolm In the Middle? i remember clearly when she first appeared on Lost i never connected the two.
-
Just as he gives Ben the idea of killing Jacob. This time he doesn't go through with what Locke suggests. This is reaffirmed - on the island - when Ben follows Ilana, not Locke. That Napoleon reference to an emperor on an island stripped of his powers has to be a nod to somebody we know. Jacob could leave the island and was giving gifts so not him. Unless in the side-backs, Jacob is the emperor with no power, on a sunken island. Could be someone else though.
-
Exiled, stripped of his power, etc.
-
Made me think bout folk calling Jacob manipulative and all that. Well what was Mr. Miyagi doing? He made that poor kid wax his car and sand his floor and paint his fence...and because of it. The Kid was able to kick Tommy and Johnny and Dutch's ass when it counted!
Hi-ya! That is what Jacob is has been doing. I just hope we get to see hugo do that Crane kick thing
I miss Cobra guy poster..he was funny. -
Is that a good idea? I mean, Jacob seemed pretty important with some strange powers, and that ash looks like it has some significant properties on the island also. So will that have any effect on Miles, reading Jacob's dying thoughts like that? Might it be a bit like being touched by Jacob in a sense? It's still less than clear what Miles is on the island for. He was there as a baby too don't forget. I wonder if at the very least those ashes might give Miles immunity from the monster. But perhaps Miles is now touched by Jacob too. Remember Bram tried to recruit Miles - so he could be important in the sense that Ilana and Jacob clearly had designs for Sayid and Hurley. Jacob needs these three as part of his contingency for being killed by Ben. And yet, what to make of Jacob hoping to the last he was wrong about Ben. Is that just Jacob's nature, to hope for the best from people? Whereas the monster expects the worst? But Bram, Ilana and Jacob are seen going to Miles, Sayid and Hurley, after the 815 plane crash. So Miles and those ashes might be more than a throwaway bit to reveal Ben's secret.
-
Is if Jacob touched Ben in the season five finale, when he died. And Miles just put himself there in that moment of death too, so Jacob may have touched Ben and Miles in addition to the people he visited in the flash backs during The Incident.
-
The idea of Jacob's body being with Ben when he dies and Miles now reading Jacob's mind as he dies... The monster has taken on Locke's form. Sayid is struggling with this infection, which is apparently to do with his soul. Yet the monster also wants Sawyer. That's three. And if Jacob has tapped Jack, Ben and Miles, that's three. Making six candidates? Except this doesn't seem right because Kate and one of the Kwons ought really to be in this picture. And Claire has apparently been claimed too. Plus people like Desmond, Frank, Widmore don't entirely seem ruled out either. So perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree here. But could there be some sort of separation of the island entities powers going on here into a trinity? In which case maybe a third entity too, making nine candidates, not six? I know we got the six numbers in the cave, but was the cave the same as the lighthouse? I don't know that the LOST numbers are necessarily the code to figuring anything else. I think we just got to see them one last time in a cool context that gave them significance.
-
When he started shouting like he was old Locke. Could that be remotely like when Desmond jumps around in consciousness? I'm trying to think of Christian disappearing off a plane. Locke disappearing off a plane. Now Desmond wasn't dead and he wasn't in a coffin but we only saw him above the island for a short moment. Remember when he first got there on a boat and he washed up ashore and Clancy Brown took him to the hatch? What if he arrived dead like Locke and Christian did? Desmond's experience could be similar to what Christian and Locke will be shown to be? When Jack saw Desmond on the plane above the island, it was like when he saw his Dad after the plane crash? I know I know, the white and black stones. But I think it's going to be three, not two. And if we've already seen what Desmond goes through to some extent, then that's a stand in for not having shown the deal with Christian for so long, and it doesn't feel like a last minute hand waving of a glaring omission when they explain it all. And it's interesting, Jack's link to Locke's coffin and Christian's coffin and also meeting Desmond before he goes to the island and seeing him on the plane in the side-backs.
-
that he felt that Ben was the Napolean reference, but that Widmore and MIB could also fit under that discription.
-
Six left alive, or six left to choose from? I mean, could some of the candidates already have been "claimed". Ilana may need to protect these six so Jacob has a chance to recruit them, not the monster? So it might not be that there are only six candidates and the number is being whittled down. It may be that there are more than six candidates and these are the last six candidates to be claimed and are the crucial pieces in determining the outcome. So crossing out a name might not mean that person is not a candidate, but possibly they are a candidate who has been claimed, or something. I know that theory doesn't fit with this idea of a replacement for Jacob, but who says the monster was telling the truth, or Richard or Ilana or Dogen had the whole picture? Just trying to parse what Ilana says to Sun for any ambiguity for going in a different direction to how it looks. Don't feel this is really there, but just spitting it out as a passing thought to see if anyone can make use of it in terms of anything else they picked up on.
-
Coincidence that there are six candidate and we spent so long hearing about the Oceanic Six?
-
Is whoever cannot be claimed. The one who does not take sides. In The Last Recruit we will be down to two, and they will be tempted, and it could go either way, and one makes a fateful decision, leaving The Candidate. The one who sits on the fence and does nothing, neither trying to protect the island, nor leave it, ironically ends up being judged best qualified to rule it. There's a few who fit the bill, but Kate springs to mind :-)
-
Cannot be tempted by the black or the white. Among all those who are qualified to be candidates, the last one to be claimed is the one the island takes.
-
you are absolutely right, and it still pleases me that they thought that far ahead.
-
well if i'm on your list, then you should know i prefer homemade cookies to fruitcake. i think i was trying to agree with you, but upon further review, you might not have been making shit for sense. a few less hits on that crackpipe and you just might make that cogent point one day. but no matter, we luvs ya anyway.
p.s.: who the hell else am i supposed to be again? -
If you try and pass the test, you fail. If you want power, you can't have it. But if you avoid the test, or try and avoid responsibility, you can't be the one either. That does seem to fit with the personal style of Jacob that we've seen. With regards to Kate, she doesn't seek power. She's born to run. She just survives. Perhaps her arc is to stop running. She does go back to help Claire in the LA X world..... Something to reconcile is where does this successor to Jacob, if we get one, end up? Is it destined to protect the island from the bottom of the ocean? A failure? Or is that just one possible contingency? Are there others? Maybe the LA X world is what happens if there is no replacement for Jacob. The candidates all fail. Could Jacob's replacement be found in the LA X world, via Desmond? Somehow I'm struggling to see them go to the island in a submarine and go down with scuba equipment to the frozen donkey wheel to move the island back above water. That really would be jumping the shark! So is there any way actions in the LA X world could end that time frame taking us to a new scenario for the finale? Obviously the other options are something on the island in 2007 both causes and puts a stop to the new 2004 reality. Or LA X really is the end of the show unfolding in a parallel narrative to what sets it up. Which seems to be the currently favoured consensus theory - which is odd since a few short weeks ago everyone said that was retarded and not even possible based on what happened in the show.
-
good theories up there around the 2pm mark today.
-
from the plane in LA X.
-
Next to the statue in the prologue to The Incident we got Jacob and MIB dropping hints that the same scenarios had been playing out time and time again and they had competing theories about what this meant about human nature or the island or the cosmos or their own predicament or whatever. This was as The Black Rock appeared to be showing up. Or some boat like it. If Ocean 815 is just the latest time people came to the island and behaved in a fashion they had seen before, as the long lists of names in the cave and the lighthouse augur, my bet is episodes 9 and 15, which have been hinted at being heavily mythological, are going to resolve island mysteries and drop anvils about where we are going by SHOWING us two of these past occasions play out almost in full before our eyes, the only bit missing being the final outcome because these are not the right candidates to bring closure - that will be left to the LOSTIES, but what fates befall their predecessors will inform the audience of the challenges and dangers they will face. Furthermore, a character like Richard, or perhaps Ilana, is going to have knowledge of these past events that could be useful to help the candidates avoid mistake of old. The scenarios will be different, but instructive.
-
I see folks here talk to their friends and ignore some of the newbies. "Arby64" dropped in with an interesting non-sequitur. Hi Arb. His idea is that Mikhail was a candidate and that's why the seeming fatal froth at the mouth bleed from the ears encounter with the electro-sonic security fence didn't kill him; because he ran into it and couldn't die.Well, not to be picky, but I think he was pushed. And he dies three times: pushed into Fencey in the field, Desmond in the underwater station with a speargun and Colonel Mustard with the exploding candlestick outside the porthole. So he was killed by the fence, murdered by whoever pushed him into it, and survived. He was killed (or maybe just seriously wounded) by Desmond. In neither would the cannot die by suicide rule be in effect. However, if he committed duel suicide - death by drowning by swimming out of the station and death by hand grenade, they by your theory he should still be alive. Unless he bled out from the speargun wound. Hey, Arby64, I didn't mean to dissect your idea, just discuss it with you, but it doesn't seem to hold water. that's cool, I post ideas that don't pan out all the time here. Scroll up a ways and I thought maybe Jin was really dead...
-
i don't mean to be looking backwards when there's so much good stuff left ahead in this last seaosn, but there's somethign that still bugs me about the Others. Up to somewhere around early Season 4, the Others (the folks we came to know under Ben's leadership) really seemed to perfer to have anyone who wasn't already on their "team" dead (with a few exceptions). To the extent that Mikhail blew himself up just outside the Looking Glass; the black lady in the Flame with him killed herself; they shot a bunch of the other Losties with arrows at the beach. even during those seasons I couldn't really come up with a good explanation why the Others were so hostile (pun in tended) to anyone else on the Island. When I rewatch those episodes through the filter of knowing what we learned about the other inhabitants of the Island aside from the 815 Losties, it's still not any clearer why Ben's group would have been mortally devoted to killing off the Losties. I could spin a theory about it relating to the Island being a "sacred" place and Ben's paranoia that any newcomers to the island might be a threat from Widmore, but it feels to easy and convenient. A whole plane crashes and Ben assumes it's Widmore trying to get to him versus the mystical nature of the Island bringing more folks there. I dunno. Nobody for me to talk about it with here, so I'm wondering what you (or anyone esle reading this) makes of the Other's obessive deathwish for Losties. Thanks!
-
Remember the original Lost twist idea: "What if we start the show with a handsome manly main character type and trick everyone into thinking he's the star of the show and then kill him. Wouldn't that freak people out? Only Matt Fox "tested well" and they decided to keep him. Well, I'd bet a penny that there's absolutely no way they'll do this, but what if they decided to hang on to that idea.What if we go of the entire length of the season and let people think that Jack is the star of the show, and then in one of the last couple episodes, we go ahead and kill him. wouldn't that freak people out?Well, yes, I suppose it would.But instead, we're getting some very plausible theories here that Kate is going to turn out to be the star of the show, which I guess was their default position #1 in the first place. Oh well...
-
Well, somebody sure has been scratching those names out in the cave for quite a good while. So perhaps somebody's been talking in people's ears about not trusting any newcomers? Dunno about that falling on your sword business. Maybe those others had been hanging out with Dogen at the temple and told them all manner of weird shit. I reckon Dogen got bored one after noon and for shits and giggles told everyone Walt was special, then had to go along with it when the dumb bastards didn't realise he was joking. This could be a good explanation for pretty much any piece of Others weirdness from the early years. That Dogen. What a practical joker. That's why he started talking through a translator. Some of Dogen's peers who weren't idiots insisted that Lennon be around to make sure Dogen didn't get away with telling people to do mad shit. There ya go. Water tight :-)
-
So anyway I was taking a nap or a shower or something and there was a discussion here centered around Jack not shaking Ben's hand. Well, no one did. No one ran up to say "Hey, look, it's that guy that lies and kills, how ya doin' old pal?"Moral judgement and the fact that, well, no one seems to like Ben Linus and they all have very good reasons not to, what I wonder is why the assumption that Jack is in charge of handshaking?Are we still stuck with that season one "Jack is the leader whether he wants to be or not" concept? No one came up to greet Ben. And rather just as importantly, Ben did not approach anyone and offer to shake hands. Oh, he spoke to a few folks who ignored him, but he was visably filled with remorse and not particularly looking like he was particularly happy to see anyone? Heck, IS Ben Linus ever happy to see anyone? Is he ever happy? Happy Ban is what the LA X model is for.
-
Does that make AnaLucia the Lucy?Is Hurley Pigpen? Is David Schroeder? Is Michael the Franklin? Is Alex the Violet the girl with naturally curly hair? So who's the Peppermint Patty, the Marcie, the Shermy, the Sally, the Rerun?Okay, Charlotte's the little red haired girl (though the girl young Ben once loved and lost fits the role better) and Vincent is Snoopy. So do Woodstock's bird scratching vocals translate to cries of "Hurley!" (I always assumed he was saying "Nevermore!")Anyway, Linus's teacher Mrs. Othmar (the woman who speaks with the voice of a soprano saxophone on the TV specials) is the Smoke Monster. Right?
-
Like an invisible lighthouse?Uh, yes, I suppose Jack did return to his seat and ask Cindy or Rose or someone "what happened to that guy I was talking with?" I kinda occam's razored that he just went and sat in his seat. People usually don't just spend a whole airplane journey standing around leaning over the seat of someone they think they might possibly know from somewhere.Maybe he was a tailie.
-
Uh, what? No according to IMDB.
-
I posted a quote in a previous TB (was it last weeks?) saying that we would know very shortly whether Des was really on 815, and that it would be conclusive. I think it came from io9 on one of their Morning Spoilers pages. Agreed though, I really wanna know what happened there. I've posted before I don't think he was really there. Perhaps a leak from the original timeline, or travelling across dimensions, or perhaps even created by Jack's mind or conciousness carried over from experiences on the island into the new "reality" which may in fact be false.
-
"right up until the last moment he hoped he was wrong about you" OOUUCH!
-
IMDB not always the most reliable.
-
Great character for having such small screentime.
-
It wouldn't make sense and be completely arbitrary to tell the viewer "yeah, 2 seasons ago Jin actually died, everything after that was the MIB, even though we have shown him in dozens of other scenes that don't make sense if he actually was MIB." It would confuse more people than it would tell a great story.
Lost is fun because you can come up with theories, but some people's theories aren't logical or interesting. Remember this is television. You have to tell a good story. If your theory requires 45 minutes of explaining how things "REALLY HAPPENED" than its not a good story.
No reader or viewer likes being told one thing, then later told "yeah that thing you believed? i lied. its not true. gotcha!" Its cheap and retarded writing. Lost has been better than that- expect quality episodes that click everything into place from here on out, fellas. -
Jack thinks Jacob has been watching him since he was a kid because he saw his childhood home in the mirror when he went to 23 degrees and the name Shepherd. But wait. Jacob went to visit Kate and Sawyer as kids. He didn't touch Jack until Jack was a doctor working at the hospital. So was Jacob watching Jack in the lighthouse mirror? Or was he watching Christian? Jack does sound totally crazy now. It would be a nice twist if he's basically delusional. Jacob clearly does want him for something, but Jack's assumptions are a bit magical at present. Something I noticed is Michael seemed to be unable to kill himself in the same way as Richard. (possibly Mikhail suffered from the same malady too.) Now if memory serves, when Michael was eventually allowed to die, Christian appeared to him. Which makes me wonder, in this scene with Jack and Richard and the dynamite, is it Christian who is keeping Jack alive, not Jacob? Is the reason the name Shepherd was so prominent compared to the others in the lighthouse actually that Christian is really really important on the island? Jacob we know from Ilana and Dogen may go around enlisting people to help him in exchange for healing people and certain sacrifices. I wonder if he knows Christian. Christian worked at the same hospital Jacob visited Jack at. Other things about that Black Rock scene. Richard calling being touched with a gift from Jacob a curse. With Hurley stood right there with them. Hurley has always thought himself cursed. Some felt Hurley was put in the position of mediating between Jacob and Jack in the same way Richard was between Locke and Sawyer the week prior. So I wonder if Hurley to Jack what Richard is to Jacob. And it's a curse. Mind you, Hurley seems confident this year, almost a leader. And in the side-backs he's saying he's lucky, not cursed. We'll see. Nice having Artz inter cut with the Black Rock dynamite scenes. Jack and Hurley are traipsing round in circles in the jungle when a mystery man appears out of nowhere and starts spouting exposition. Continuing their homage to the old days except this is what characters still do pretty much every week to some extent. But it's funny that Jack claims Hurley is the one stalling. Because he's just asked Richard where he came from and Richard won't tell him! Richard just leads them off into the jungle without explaining anything! Of course he does take them to the Black Rock and explain what's happened at the temple. So that's progress. He also willingly divulges what sounds like very honest, pertinent, personal information, which is a bit of a rare occurrence for one of the mystery characters, although it's far from his whole story - that's coming in a few weeks. But what's most interesting is this time it's Jack who gives Richard a chunk of island mythology. Jack is explaining to Richard how things are with Jacob. Now it's not necessarily the case that Jack is right in his interpretation and Richard is wrong. So it's not like the tables have turned. But this is a radical development in terms of where the main characters are in the island hierarchy. The candidates are fully fledged factors in their own right now and can hold their own, even as supposed authority figures such as Dogen fall by the way side. Even Jacob is vulnerable, and the monster has been shown to have moments of confusion and doubt. Back on the beach the way the camera roams a bit and a character like Miles or Frank can come into shot and then mid conversation the story moves on to Ilana's gun barrel... everybody is to an extent on equal footing in terms of feeling any sense of obligation to follow a leader - even as people start to take sides, so this is maybe in contrast to Locke's group to some extent, as we last saw him marching them all into the jungle, but we'll get a better view of that dynamic next week. But on the beach, we now have Jack, Ben, Richard, Ilana, who have leadership qualities, and Frank, Sun, Miles and Hurley are not exactly about to be pushed around by anyone. So there's been a definite shift there I'd say. Everybody has their own information and shots to call. I think we're primed for people to question their faith again even as they rediscover it, perhaps in a more determined manner rather than one of confusion. Which will surely lead to terrible consequences, but the group dynamics and the distribution of island mythology is getting interesting now.
-
Jack's being set up by the writers for a fall. He's got this sense of finding his purpose on the island. He's got faith in all this magical thinking and is basically a nut job who tried to detonate a nuclear bomb. The guy who follows him round is an escaped mental patient who talks to dead people. But leaving that aside... Where was Jack in season one? He had daddy issues. Then his dad died and as he came to grips with the island he was haunted by his dad. EVERYTHING that has happened since then and he is headlong back to finding out the truth about his dad's coffin which has eluded him since day one. Has Jack experienced any real growth that equips him to deal with this particularly well, whatever it is that is coming? He's all island destiny. And the island may well be all about destiny. But it doesn't mean Jack isn't a total nut job all the same. Jack isn't gonna get redemption. He's going to find out that this belief he's found is actually a delusion of grandeur. He plays an important role but it's smaller than he's being set up in his own mind to anticipate. When he comes crashing back into his daddy he's going to discover that Christian is way more of a big deal than he ever knew, that his sister Claire who he never even knew about has her say too, and even his nephew Aaron is way more important than he is. The two peers, Kate and Sawyer, are the pair Jacob has been watching since they were children, not Jack. Jack is an after thought. And this is going to make him angry. Now in the side-ways, Jack seems to be cast as the father in a new version of his relationship with his own dad, with a son we had no inkling of. There's a symmetry there maybe, the disappearing son, David, the disappearing dad, Christian, to go with all the others in the Shepherd family. Now on the island Jack might turn out to be not very important to the Shepherd family. In the side-ways, Jack is sorting out his dead dad's estate, maybe helping his sister, reconciling his own family with wife and son. If the island is at the bottom of the ocean... Jack isn't going to protect the island, he's going to destroy it. He's going to complete what he started with the bomb at the incident, only this time he's going to succeed. I still think Kate's the candidate though.
-
picked this up somewhere else, sorry if you've already heard it:
"Apparently Jeremy Bentham actually coined the phrase "penal colony" in 1803 in regards to New South Wales, Australia. He was against the practice of relocating prisoners and was the originator of a new type of prison, which allowed outsiders to observe the prisoners without the prisoners knowing they were being watched."
veddy interesting, no? -
So we've heard they're gonna start dropping like flies. I'm thinking if you guys are right, and LA X is the wish fulfillment/wheel of kharma/season 7- then maybe who gets left on the island WILL NOT show up in LA X timeline.
Any takers? -
Were those gunshots in the boats ever explained? Maybe when they go to the Hydra station...
-
Might we get a couple of scenes that tie in with the time flashes yet then? It seems likely Jacob or MIB would utilize them further in this endgame. Just as the time flashes may be pertinent to the side-backs, by erasing the LOSTIES ever having gone to 1954 or whenever, thus allowing different events to transpire ever since... well since the building of that well in the time of the statue I guess - where Christian seemed to be hanging out waiting for Locke, hmmmm?
-
...the closer to the finish line the show gets, the more bizarre the theories people are throwing around to explain it all.
-
This is my first post here and it may be a bit rough around the ages. Thus, bear with me.
The beginning of the end of the series will show a character appearing in multiple timelines to check up on many of the leading Losties. In the La X timeline, he will visit a well-to-do artist showing off his new gallery of works. However, this observing characteracter will notice a tinge of melancholy. You see, the artist in LA X is Michael Lloyd. The observer in question is his son, Walt.
In the LA X timeline, Walt does not exist. We then see him appearing on the island, though in a rather transformed manner. Apparently, Walt is now the spiritual leader; leading a flock of peaceful yet odd figures. In an observance, we see a continuation of a battle brewing between the Jacob forces and the MIB forces. Only they look tired and older: their neverending battle completely pointless and futile. We then realize that this is the island and its inhabitants in 2010; three years after the battle began.
Quite obviously, the final episode of Lost centers on the one person that seemed a threat to every other Lostie in some form or other. That character of course is Walt. You see, Walt has the gift of time travel, similar to Desmond. He also has powers which, for any Twilight Zone fan, would make Bill Mumy look tame in comparison. The flashes will give us a glimpse into how Walt matured and went back to the island in 2007.
It will be known that during the Great Battle, while many Losties continued to fight, others grew tired. Walt, as spiritual leader, offered these fellow Losties a path to peace and humanity. His argument boils down to something along the line of: you are humans with a brain. Why must you all be manipulated by figures whom may or may not exist?
We will also see a sight not seen on the island. Namely, a visual reality device in a control room of sorts that shows the Losties in multiple timelines; some of them even converging with others. In this one case, the 2007 timeline converges with the LA X timeline, in that Jack and his son in LA X are heading towards the sunken island to bury and memorialize Christian Shepard.
In all other timelines, we notice a resolution not unlike that of what ended The Dark Tower. Namely, the battle continues, and the end result is always the same with the leading Losties fighting on, while others flock to Walt and by extension their own selves.
As if by magic, Walt appears to Jack while in the 2007 timeline, with Jack getting ready to begin his never-ending battle. Walt will say, "Hello, Jack!". Jack will ask whom he is, of course. Walt will likely say something like "I am that boy whose father wanted his son back badly!" Cue another Matthew Fox face of shock and stuned.
This is only the beginning ideas of the series finale. Yet, this idea gives us a great return for Malcolm David Kelley at his current age and appearance. T -
What governed the time flashes? When they flashed and to what year? Was it random or was somebody controlling it? And what triggered the final flash back to 2007? Somebody speculated a couple of weeks ago that somebody - probably Eloise - might have turned the Frozen Donkey Wheel just as the bomb exploded. That, along with the stuff about the statue and the well in ancient times, seemed like a really smart idea, regardless of if it makes it on screen.
-
This will bring forth newer questions. But remember, it is a sci-fi fantasy TV show. The impossible is possible in these regards.
Any Questions, worries, bothers, or even comments will be appreciated.
In the box yet out of the box,
Lax27 -
Why Sun and Ben and others didn't flash off the Ajira flight back to 1977 with the rest.
-
Has Widmore come out of hyperspace too close to the Hoth system?
-
I always had a question in my head if he was really dead. If Jack being a candidate,touched by Jacob couldn't kill himself with dynamite, then Mikhail (also a anti-suicidal candidiate) didnt have to fear the holy hand grenade? It did go off in his hand right?
Think he's still around?
rosasaks! Sounds like your dept! -
In which he politely made it clear he expected there to be a lot more answers by now too.
-
he didn't seem very pleased
-
Like was said up earlier, he may have had a "moment" of clarity, but there is still the fact that "his" Alex IS dead, and Widmore is still out there. I think everything is moving along nicely, although I wasn't as wowed by Jack's Dynomite Chat with Richard as others... I am curious about Michael's death now, since it was also mentioned earlier, how it was sanctioned by Christian. I'm wondering if Christian was the defacto "Jacob" placeholder til they had a solid handle on the character or his casting. Hmmm.
-
"The group dynamics and the distribution of island mythology is getting interesting now."
Always has been for me.
Nappy...I agree with you completely on the handshake. was thinking the same thing before I got bored of the arguement....sorry...debate. Lol! -
...I was sayin Jack should gave Ben a handshake cuz of their history... granted it wasnt a peachy history, but i thought that Jack seein on the beach wit the "good guys", he couldve just extended his hand...
-
Predictions for the future:
1) Widmore sinks the island and sends people back to 2004, thus causing the flash-sideways, somehow.
2) When Miles tried to "read" the ashes, Jacob took control of his body.
I'm not married to these theories. They're just guesses. -
...I can't wait for him and Richard to reunite.
"Hello Captain."
"Hello you scurvy dog." -
Blubbering like a woman as the good guys assemble.God, I love you Lost. Gonna miss you when your gone.
-
...works.
If characters who are dead in Reality#1 are alive in Reality#2, then how can the flash-sideways really be flash-forwards?
Boone, the science teacher, Alex. -
over the least couple of years, there's all kinda boats swept and left inland. I really don't need an explanation on the Black Rock's inland location.
-
...until this episode.
Same goes for Ilana.
But then she started running.
Towards the camera.
Bouncy bouncy. -
...But theyre just focusin on these two realities... like Des had MANY visions of Charlie dyin, so if he let Charlie die the first try or the sec try will have different results...
-
Mar 10, 2010 9:44:14 PM CST
Darlton said on the podcast it isn't an "alternate" reality.
by royston lodge
-
If Widmore was on the Black Rock...he would be 150 years old. He did not recieve the same 'gift' from Jacob that Alpert did...Charles obviously ages.
-
umm i wasnt saying ur were one of idiots in the first 3/4 of the talkback. i clearly named said "fans". Also darlin'--- some of us arent "lazy" by coming into the talkback late--- im out of town on tues. and dont have access to a computer till i get home sunshine lol. Fucking YEESH. and BTW-- I READ EVERY POST sugarpants. thats why it takes me so long to post and also, why im SO FREAKING PISSED when i do. everything better now????
-
i only have access to the hotels computer on wed. and the auto action has a limited # of available computers on thurs. plus, it takes me 4 hours to get home on thurs. so i dont look on here till i get back thurs. night. and some jackass was on the hotel computer for freaking 2 hours today....that a good enough explanation??
-
man, best news ive had all week...
-
Macfaux - sandwich or senator??
-
PA-- sorry to hear ED's still in his predicament. tell him i hope hes ok. he seemed like a pretty cool guy. i enjoyed talking to him in Room23...
-
But how did Miles know that Nikki and Paulo were buried with Diamonds?
-
you wait and see. he's like roy brocksmith in total recall.
-
Dogen told Sayid to stab Locke/MIB before he was able to speak otherwise he would be in trouble and Locke/MIB told Ben to shoot Ilana before she did because she wouldn't hesitate to shoot him.
-
of when Sayid forgave Ana Lucia for shooting Shannon when he told her that he was dead inside.
-
Ben wasn't the only one who didn't get a handshake, Richard didn't ether. Granted he didn't know anyone there, but when the camera drew back to the sub point of view there was the group and then away from the group on one side was Ben and on the other side away from the group was Richard.
-
graveyard prior to Ilana forcing Ben over there to dig his own grave. He simply had a pow wow with the fallen duo, and found out they had diamonds on them....and exactly how much.
-
Why did they cancel Las Vegas in Season Five???? It's killing me!! What happened with the baby! How did Cooper SURVIVE!!!??? ARG!
-
Nikki and Paulo were buried with them and he heard them talking about it. Also, Richard not shaking anyone's hands makes sense. Hurley not shaking Ben's hands makes sense. Jack completely dissing Ben, to me, does not make sense. Some acknowledgment should have been given. Ben DID get Jack back to the Island.
-
Theres pile upon pile of bad blood between them. Jack only let Ben talk him into returning because he was at a low point. Its not like Jack returning to the island was some major prize. Again I would rather that the handshake was really earned.
-
Ben knew where to go to find out how to get back to the Island, Ben drove Kate back to the Island, Ben tried to get Hurley back. Ben did a lot for Jack, and Jack was happy about it until he learned that Ben was behind the lawyers who were going after Kate. And then he got all fake self-righteous and blind to the big picture, and that's when Ben pulled that van over and put both him and Sun in their place. Jack and Ben even had a nice conversation on the plane- the very last time either person saw each other. Nothing bad has happened between them since Jack asked Ben "How can you read?" and Ben moved away to give Jack some privacy with Locke's note. They're obviously on speaking terms. A "hello" there at the end would have been nice.
-
in front that horse! I also have 13 chickens. Well, they haven't hatched yet...But I'm certain there will be 13. I'm counting on it!
-
...but i forgot the lawyer part...
-
Ben goes back for Sayid and says: "Sayid, come on, there's still time." to which Sayid responds "Not for me."
He may have been saying 'it's too late, I'm with Locke now.' But I think he was actually saying that there's literally no time for him anymore. Similar to Richard, maybe Sayid has been dislodged from time. Just a thought...sharp writing. -
Ben goes back for Sayid and says: "Sayid, come on, there's still time." to which Sayid responds "Not for me."
He may have been saying 'it's too late, I'm with Locke now.' But I think he was actually saying that there's literally no time for him anymore. Similar to Richard, maybe Sayid has been dislodged from time. Just a thought...sharp writing. -
Previously on Lost Talkback, A Mr. R. Lodge asked "If characters who are dead in Reality#1 are alive in Reality#2, then how can the flash-sideways really be flash-forwards?". Traveling backwards in time, he earlier theorized "Widmore sinks the island and sends people back to 2004, thus causing the flash-sideways, somehow."Well, sir, it seems you have loosely answered your own question. A question with no concrete answer at the moment; that we will have sometime in May of this year, until then we only have theories. And I gather that even among the people who think the events we are shown occurring in LA X world 2004 are chronologically occurring before the current 2007 On Island events, there are a multitude of ways to explain them.I am not a theoretician, I am a smart-ass and a douchebag. In one previous talkback it was pointed out that I am an incidence of coitus, but I do not think this is possible.But to return to the topic at hand... I would not attempt to condense the concepts of DC Comics' "Crisis On Infinite Earths" down to the length of a Tweet. Find a funnybook fan to explain that too you if you have a few hours sometime.Based on what we have seen about the ways LA X world differs from conventional Lost history (Desmond yes really on the plane, Shannon not, Locke on apparently friendly terms with his father, etc. and, as you pointed out, various dead characters [nadia, Arzt] alive). LA X is NOT "what if Juliet beating the sunnavabitch with a rock worked bringing Faraday's Principle into play and preventing the event that caused Flight 815 to crash", but some other 2007 or later event with more far reaching consequences that caused many changes including but not limited to preventing the crash.This train of thought can be twisted to conform to The Darlton's promise that FlashSideways are not Flashbacks or FlashForwards (or even FlashForwards-to-the-Past) and are not an "Alternate Reality" but are parts of the same reality. Which does connect the on and off island continuities by allowing an occurrance the 2007 events are still leading up to to eventually cause the 2004 LA X timeline events to exist.As I said, there are many alternate theories of what and how and even the acronymous WTF floating around to explain what this reality altering event might be. The idea I floated (as unpopular as my crackpot theories around here always seem to be) is that an ultimate Death of both Jacob and MIB - a real end of the road death, with no ghosts, no alternate bodies, etc, actual D E A D dead, causes these mythic beings to not merely stop existing from one point in time forward, but throughout time, so that they never existed. And therefore never had any effect on the Island, and Jacob never touched anyone at any point off island (in the LA X) version of things. So, um, Jacob and MIB Did Exist in order to bring about the events leading up to their deaths, at which point they cease to have ever existed, forcing an altered reality of what would have happened if they never existed to come into existence.I did a small quantity of psychedelic drugs back in the '70s including psilocybin, peyote mushrooms and Hawaiian Baby Wood Rose Seeds plus one single experience with Opium and extensive use of more moderate recreational substances such as marijuana and hashish. I have also read over 50,000 comic books. If that helps to explain the above ramble. 8)
-
http://lostroom23muses.blogspot.com/2010/03/penny-cleaned-up.html
-
Is Miles Melinda, Eli or Allison? And if you've never heard of Ghost Whisperer and Medium, no I'm not going to explain the differences.One idea that always tends to upset someone in the talkbacks is the concept that characters do actually talk and interact beyond the page - that is, the "total story" goes beyond what we are shown on the screen. I understand to objection to the concept that the author can simply claim to have implied material he never bothered to write.However, in regards to Miles and the NikkiPaolo diamonds... I return to my topic line question, because I do not have encyclopedic (or Lostpedic) knowledge or photographic memory of every instance of Miles usage of his power, or if they have been consistently shown from one event to the next.Honestly, in his first appearance I got the impression he was a con man or fraud with a ghostbusters prop. Later he seems to be able to hear the dead and specifically their final thoughts leading up to and during their deaths. I'm sure the folks here who have participated in the summer long Watchbacks and have seen the entire series three or four times may remember if Miles needs to be in physical touch with the dead or their remains or over their graves or holding their cremains or in proximity to the location of their deaths.Then there is Occam's Razor: the simplest answer is likely correct.So, the Psychic Answer: Miles in Boone's Hill stood on or near Nikki and Paolo's grave, which was also the spot where they died (since they were buried alive and perished as they - or at least she - regained consciousness), and sensed their thoughts.The Simpler Answer, though it relies on lazy writing and implied off screen conversations, is that since Miles and Hurley actually seemed to have become friends or companions - at least to the degree that people bond when there is no one else around to talk to, the way co-workers become friendly - then Miles learned of where the diamonds were buried, and their value, because Hurley told him.As I stated earlier in this talkback, my favorite Unwritten Scene in the episode was Miles sitting near the graves and holding a diamond, with the Implication that if he learned of their existence and location from Nikki and Paolo's thoughts, then he also learned that they were buried alive. Perhaps even by who. I like to think that when he was looking at that diamond, he wasn't thinking "Hey, if I ever get off this Island I'll be rich" but "Jeebus, should I tell my pal Hurley that he helped bury two people alive?"
-
Really think Jack is the man and still hoping that Jack says no to both Smokey and Jacob, turns the wheel backwards and hey presto here is the new reality, the one we have been seeing in flash sideways all season long.
-
Mar 11, 2010 1:55:22 AM CST
Also glad earlier on in the TB it was made clear that Tania is a
by miyamoto_musashi
nothing wrong with wanting to play teacher and student with her.
-
How Lost ends: All the series major mysteries are resolved, all main character arcs completed, dozens of questions are answered and those left unanswered are arguably relatively minor. The final episodes largely involve resolving the larger sci-fi/fantasy concept arcs that have little real bearing on what people thought Lost was about during the first two seasons.The Final Scene - the scene after the scene in which two randomly chosen characters sit on a beach and one talks about wanting to kill the other:We see David Shepherd in a High School Library, returning some books to the two blonde librarians behind the counter; they are Juliet and Libby. As David turns to leave he says "Thanks, Mom, see you later."The young black man standing behind him in line steps up and hands over a well worn massively thick paperback edition of the 1,623 page long novel "The Lost" by Darlton King. Libby asks "Well? How did you like it?" Walter Lloyd replies "It had a lot of great concepts and it started terrific, but I think it was one of the books he made up as he went along while coked out of his head. Kinda fell apart at the end. It was okay, I guess, Not sure I'd want to read it again for a while.".The next day the AICN Lost talkback hits #1 on the most used list with over 1,516 posts, about a third of which are people arguing about whether Juliet or Libby was David's mother and whether she and Jack are divorced or separated and whether they will ever reconcile and whether or not they broke up due to his affair with either Kate or AnaLucia or Sarah.And 0.075# are posts from former Lost trolls checking in to say "Actually, that was a lot better than I expected it to be. Sorry for all the negativity."[poom]Lost...
-
Is he going to be aligned with Smokey's gang or Jacob's gang ? Or be a third party.
Hoping for the later -
Note that even in this historical reference there are two islands (two separate defeats) involved in the leader's downfall, and something about an offshore power presence: "Following the Treaty of Fontainebleau, French emperor Napoleon I was exiled to Elba after his forced abdication in 1814 and arrived at Portoferraio on May 3, 1814 to begin his exile there. He was allowed to keep a personal guard of six hundred men. Although he was nominally sovereign of Elba, the island was patrolled by the British Navy. During the months Napoleon stayed on the island, he carried out a series of economic and social reforms to improve the quality of life, partly to pass the time and partly out of a genuine concern for the well-being of the islanders. Napoleon stayed on Elba for 300 days. He returned to France on February 26 for the Hundred Days. After his defeat at Waterloo he was subsequently exiled again, this time to the barren and isolated South Atlantic island of Saint Helena." (Wiki, "Elba")
-
Well I know your little baby sister
She thinks that I'm a flopBut I guess that you know that it's trueI spent more time at the bottom than the topTell your little sisterI know she wants to give me a whirlBut I don't have the time, babyTo wait till she's grown up and she's a woman, not a girlDon't you know I wanna boogie with youHey, I wanna boogie with youI wanna boogie with youI wanna boogie with you, yeah.Lou Reed, I Wanna Boogie With You, from the LP Street Hassle -
Interesting that the main city of Elba, Portoferraio (Iron Port), was once known for its principal industry of iron mining (just made me think of the magnetic anomaly in Lost ...)
-
Team KidInWhite or Team BloodyHands KidInWhite? Which group has a treaty with Team TallWalt?
-
Though I hope Jack has better taste than Libby
-
Pantera 777 said "Can Not Wait!!! I love this show, (have coitus) with the haters!!!"I can wait from one week to the next and one season to the next for new episodes of Lost, and usually find them to be well worth the wait. I do love this show, in that we are in agreement. But I see no reason to have sexual relations with the haters, I feel they are well capable of doing that to themselves, physical unlikelyhood aside.I also prefer the cutsie-pie internet slang term "h8ers". You know who else would have h8ed Lost? That's right, Hitler. Or H8ler.
-
You prefer Del Monte?
-
Is either young Jacob or your smokey.
-
is that an American thing ?
-
Libby's: major brand of canned fruit. Del Monte: major brand of canned vegetables. Del Monte, also third major brand of either Ketchup or Catsup behind Heinz and Hunts.Responses from either coast may vary: it's a wide continent and I never know when brand name preferences and pop music hit singles are national or regional things.
-
Was very surprised that Miles could read them. A) because they were ashes and b) because they are from Jacob.
Suppose on the ashes front, its not about a tangible body, its about a spirit, so its just something very connected to the spirit that Miles needs to make his connection with the spirit.
Jacob, I suppose is like the original Richard a human that was given a gift to live and not age for a very long time.
-
have learnt something today
-
So I assume that previous to the Black Rock arriving at the island and Richard taking up his role and been given imortality, there may have been others like Richard, who served Jacob before.
-
What was happening on the island prior to Jacob and Smokey?
Is this is a case of the island always needing balance, has there always been someone that represented light and someone that represented dark.
Think many have theorised that this is the case so prior to Jacob and Smokey was there two others, whose places they took. And two others before them and so forth.
How long has Jacob and Smokey been on the island, 1,000 years, longer.
What additionally makes it interesting for these two is were they originally brothers?
Will the series end with Jack and Sawyer taking up those roles.
Or too my view will Jack break the cycle, will there be progress. -
Sometimes TV shows seem to respond to competition by adding similar elements. The Simpsons introducing Dr. Hibbert after going head to head with the Cosby Show. Alias adding the Rimbaldi mythos while appearing opposite the X-Files. Joan of Arcadia placed even more emphasis on the High School storylines while on opposite Boston Public.When the Lost Compendiums are compiled, with The Substitute and Dr. Linus be footnoted as appearing during the season that Lost was on opposite Glee?>[?I'm kidding, but c'mon, I bet people would watch Lost High School: the Spin Off as long as it had Terry O'Quinn, Michael Emerson, Daniel Roebuck, Tania Raymonde, Wiliam Atherton, Malcolm David Kelley and the kids that played David, Son of Dogen and Tania's Kids.Then in the second season they could add Jeri Ryan to help boost ratings, because that trick always works.
-
Ben - countless unnecessary murders and genocide = GOOD
Claire - unwed mother = EVIL -
I think you nailed it, Pailin'.
-
damn! PA please send Ed my best wishes - by all accounts your penal system is all kinds of fucked up..
ok now, let's see - first and foremost GUYS! do yourselves a favour and CHECK OUT THE LIST on Lostpeadia - who's name was crossed out/not crossed out in the cave/lighthouse:
http://shrunklink.com/egry
or if you prefer:
http://shrunklink.com/egrz
interestingly the name AUSTEN (51) was NOT crossed out in the lighthouse but WAS crossed out in cave - personally I believe that's Jacob's WHITE lighthouse and MIB's BLACK cave so to me, personally, that means MIB has already written off Kate as a candidate whereas Jacob is still, you know, hoping that he was wrong about her...
I sincerely hope you are wrong Rosaks about this entire show being about Kate, tho!
some other highlights, just to put some theories above to bed-
LAPIDUS - not even on there (tho to be fair, this is a PARTIAL list)
STRAUME - crossed out
INMAN - yup, crossed out
HUME - not there, but some ppl still believe WALLACE (crossed out) means the same thing
LINUS - crossed out - likely BEN not ALEX
ROUSSEAU - crossed out - likely DANIELLE not ALEX
BAKUNIN - (as in MIKHAIL) not there...
WIDMORE - again, not even on the list...
which brings me nicely to my next point - let's assume for a moment that some "candidate" (or jus some guy) flips a switch or something and causes the Flash-Sideways to become reality and the island sinks and nobody remembers a damn thing about it - that person would likely still have to stay behind, be on the island while everyone else gets to shift sideways, right?
so whom have we NOT seen so far in these FlashSideways adventures beyond the looking glass station?
Charles Widmore
ok sure there's others - BUT HE JUST SHOWED UP ON THE ISLAND!
so IF that is how this thing is going to turn out, then I don't think it's going to be Jack or Kate or Ben or Locke or anyone else we've seen in ALT 2004 - just because we HAVE seen them in ALT 2004 and therefore none of those people made the ultimate sacrifice... jus sayin...
which brings me to my NEXT point (hey it took HOURS to get back to the bottom again!)-
I distinctly remember hearing MIB say to Ben "once we're gone, someone's gonna need to be IN CHARGE of the island" - and he can't think of a better (ahem) ok let's go with candidate for the job...
now is it jus me or is that just a leeeeeeeeeeeeetle beeeeeet contradictory to what he told Sawyer about the island - how "there's nothing to PROTECT it from - it's just a damn island and it will be perfectly fine without Jacob... or any of the other people..." - am I trying too hard or is this guy full of shit?
oh and finally, I think I figured out why Keamy had Jin tied up in the walk-in-fridge last week-
he didn't want Paik's prize damaged so he decided to test the carbon freezing process on Sayid first - sure he's no good to him dead, but the brother might have compensated him if he was to die
you know it to be true! -
actually it doesn't really matter to me if anyone remembers that or not
I almost forgot, tho - that exchange with MIB where he suggests Ben should be the new MIB - in the same episode where Ben laments seeing someone he loved die right in front of him - was anyone else reminded of a certain other character saying how he was once a man WHO LOST A LOVED ONE?
so many parallels in those conversations...
and yet, I still feel that he's full of shit
and like other ppl have been saying, Ben of all people should know when a bullshitter is being bullshitted - notice the reason he gave for going to the other camp WASN'T "coz I gonna be runnin tings from noah on" -
Will it matter that some of the candidates lived on the island for much longer than the others? For instance, because Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley and Sun left the island, I'm not sure they've actually spent all that many days there in the scheme of things. Desmond was there longer. Then you have Sawyer, Jin and Miles who went back to the 1970s and stayed there for three years - the O6 turned up late to that party, and Sun never at all. Claire never went anywhere so was on the island 2004-2007. Christian is a mystery - remember he arrived on 815 too and may or may not be dead. Locke is presumably dead. Frank is a late comer, but there's this suggestion he should have been there longer. Ilana is an unknown. Richard seems to have been there a very long time. Aaron for all his vaunted importance has actually spent less time on the island than anyone who arrived on 815 and lived, except for Walt. Michael is dead - he left the island and came back and Christian appeared to him, is there a link? Widmore is returning to the island after a long and enforced absence. The submarine. Are we to assume that was them arriving? obviously lots of speculation who might be on board - my guess is Gretchen from Prison Break. But might they already have been ashore? That blonde kid had to come from somewhere... or is he more of an island spirit who time travelled or whatever. Question: do we think Aaron will return to the island? Remember all that stuff about the o6 having to go back? Well Aaron didn't, did he. Is this linked to the raised by an other stuff with Kate. It's not so much being raised by Kate, as Aaron isn't supposed to be off the island? Is there a parallel with the side-backs, in which David is clearly off the island? Still think Claire will have a miscarriage in the new 2004, as argued way back up thread.
-
maybe Jacob touching people gives them a part of himself.....ala..the Horcruxes in Potter....so he really isn't dead as long as there is enough of the candidates alive.
-
so far.... bet they keep getting better!
Like many have said - the acting was amazing (Ben/Jack, etc) and I haven't felt that way at the end of an episode in many years... well done -
Another site has pictures of Jack's ex Julie Bowen running around Hawaii in a bikini Sunday. I haven't heard about her returning to Lost but it's a strange coincidence.
-
We'll see him in another life, ya?
-
Mar 11, 2010 9:31:15 AM CST
It would have been really stupid if Jack gave Ben a handshake,
by themanwhocan
come on some of you talk-backers are never happy. If they DID shake hands, everyone else on the beech, especially those who have been the victims Ben’s manipulations (i.e. everyone) would be confused and creeped out.
I can see it now (in slow motion). Miles, Sun, Frank, Ilanna, Ben, are rebuilding tents and huts . Sun sees Jack, Hurley and Richard coming round the corner down the beech. (music)DING, DING ,strings. Sun runs towards Jack he hugs her (still in slowmo, music still all DING…. DING), Frank gives Hurley a hand shake Hurley pulls Frank towards him and give him a big bear hug(DING>>>DING …more strings). Jack shakes hands with Miles and walks towards Ben..(DING>>>DING)(still in slow motion) Jack stands in front of Ben who is getting up from where he was sitting.. DING…DING Jack smiles puts out his hand Ben takes it and they shake, then pull in and hug each other (more string instruments) Jack picks up Ben in a bear hug and spins around , they both throw each others head up in laughter. They both run and chest bump each other do a 10 part secret hand shake, finished by (DING DING (still in slow motion)) both of them jumping unto the air an giving each other a high five. The camera then points towards the rest of the beech people who are looking at all of this with worried confused looks on there faces and DING …DING (music still playing so you cant hear them and still in slow motion) you see there mouths mouth the words “wwwhhhaattt ttthhheeee fuuuccccccccckkkkkk????” DING DING
POOM
LOST
no wait. Even better , we see this scene from a distance from a periscope lens. then we see Charlie Widmore looking away from the periscope viewer and looks at the camera and says in a thick Australian accent “Flamin eck, thay’s all a bunch of Shelia’s!”
-
Julie Bowen is on Modern Family, which I believe I read is doing a hawaii vacation type episode.
-
Do we know how he died exactly? Could drinking yourself to death be considered suicide? What if he was a candidate and the island wasn't done with him?
-
mehh
-
...To be on the island cuz he seen ONE image of his old house (not a image of him as a kid at the house) and see his name scratched in wood, but it doesnt make sense that Jack (who forgives people and is the designated leader) to shake the hand of someone important in his life for the past three years esp when they have gone thru so much shit... imagine youre at war, behind enemy lines, by yourself, then you see a old military mate who you dislike, but is clearly still fightin on your side... you wouldnt give him a handshake? you just ignore him and continue lookin for enemies?
-
I don't really care too much either way ... But Benjamin Linus has been horrible. He's lucky someone doesn't kill him, much less opt not to shake his hand.
-
I accept that Locke was paralyzed and the Island enabled him to walk again, but isn't it weird that his legs could support his weight without a problem even though they had atrophied from 4 years of non-use? Other burning questions: Who would have won that backgammon game between Locke and Walt? Who was Vincent's REAL dog parents? What's the significance of his owner changing from Brian/Walt to Walt to Rose & Bernard? Will bernard become a veternarian now! When did Rousseau first learn to use a gun? If hurley had pollen allergies, would he also have an allergy to Smokie? Speaking oHurley, how did his crazy friend Lenny break his glasses? What was Geronimo Jackson's first hit? And, Who was wimpier: Frogurt or Glass Joe from Punch-Out?
-
Also, why tease us with Boone and Charlie in the pilot then have them be MIA.
And why was Walt so special? (Sorry, couldn't resist.) -
all due respect man, think i called Hurley vs Ben waaay back. Could be wrong , though, because you and me are on the same page about a few t'ings. Such as, (your quote)
"which brings me nicely to my next point - let's assume for a moment that some "candidate" (or jus some guy) flips a switch or something and causes the Flash-Sideways to become reality and the island sinks and nobody remembers a damn thing about it - that person would likely still have to stay behind, be on the island while everyone else gets to shift sideways, right?
so whom have we NOT seen so far in these FlashSideways adventures beyond the looking glass station?"
which I also was t'inking yesterday:
dead pool
by deelzbub Mar 10th, 2010
08:11:50 PM
"So we've heard they're gonna start dropping like flies. I'm thinking if you guys are right, and LA X is the wish fulfillment/wheel of kharma/season 7- then maybe who gets left on the island WILL NOT show up in LA X timeline.
Any takers?"You, me, and Vader (and sometimes rocksacks and vikki)seem to be on the same page, so maybe we're heading towards a consensus?
-
had an agreement with Keamy to dispose of Jin. Maybe to keep Jin & Sun from getting married?P>Maybe there was some other reason. Wouldn't it be f'd up if Sun was in on it, a la evil Sun?
Think Jin is done for, in either reality. -
Jack has adopted some of Locke's attitudes about the island. Meanwhile the monster has taken over Locke's image and some of its personality.
-
Smashed up the coffin... Blew up the hatch... Blew up the bomb... Smashed up the lighthouse... Anyone see where this is going... Cause you know there's like an island at the bottom of the sea...
-
Jack's arc will be tragic. He's going through hubris now. Next will be nemesis.
-
Going back to what Locke told Sawyer about running away, protecting, or doing nothing. Those three choices. Kate is "born to run". A shepherd protects his flocke and Jack is a doctor. And Sawyer the confidence trickster waits a long time and sees what happens. But I don't think it will be this simple. I think Jack is clearly heading for self destruction. He's still the same maniac with the bomb. He just survived and thinks he has a purpose. His world will come crashing down in daddy issues when he finds out Christian and Aaron are more important Shepherds than he is. I think there will be reversals for Kate and Sawyer too. We've seen Sawyer now wants to run from the pain of losing Juliet. And Kate is trying to protect Aaron. I think this will keep switching around as we narrow in on the candidate. This is what the lighthouse is for - identifying who is right for the island. The only other person I could see it being is Desmond. At a push, Ben or Locke.
-
He's easily the most destructive doctor I've ever seen.
-
by deelzbub Feb 22nd, 2010 05:05:27 PM
Thinking about Lost while driving today, and this is what I came up with:
Both timeline are real and both happening. This serves to give us, the viewers two different endings to the show, a Choose-your-own-adventure, if you will. While nothing pleases everyone, this would seem to be a strategic attempt by the writers to please more folks with more than just one ending.
In the LA X timeline, our Losties get to purge their demons, correct their mistakes, and have the happy ending that so many wish for their favorite character(s).
In the original(O) timeline, our Losties adventure, live and die, and do heroic and dastardly deeds (depending on their character's bent) right up until the ending.
I see Sawyer being Smokie's bitch right up until the last, then putting the smack down on him, sacrificing himself Juliet-style. Whether skid-marked boxers are a part of his plan would remain to be seen.
At the last, I still see two players having to fill the role of Smokie/Esau and Jacob at the end. My vote is for Ben vs Hurley.
-
We so rarely see him tend to anyone's wounds. You'd think with everyone getting the crap beat out of them week after week for years he'd be offering more help. I guess he's technically a doctor but not in spirit.
-
About do we see where this is going with Jack's destructiveness and the island at the bottom of the seas.
Might that be the real reason the producers had the sub arrive? Maybe it's carrying another, bigger bomb? Maybe Jack gets wind of it and goes out with a bang? -
Since Hurley And Ben have shown up in the flash sideways, it makes me question my above theory.
And Hurley's "Cheeese Curds" could very well be some dimensional overlap like Juliet's coffee break.
This has me worried for fan favorite Hurley. -
And it's interesting that Locke's faith in the island ultimately led him nowhere. Is Jack now heading down the same path Locke asked him to follow? He thinks he's important and that will prevent him from being what the island wants. It's not just Jack who has inherited the arc motivations of another character. Sawyer is fleeing the scene of a crime at the moment. Running for his life. And Ben, as we saw... he's a pathetic figure. He's almost like Locke before he came to the island. I wonder what Desmond is doing.
-
Kate will protect the island through her choices regarding Aaron. The side-backs show us David, a character who appears not to exist in the original history we know. What if Aaron is stillborn in the side-backs? Claire has a miscarriage and the side-backs show the world in which Aaron died? Kate will have to choose Aaron's fate.
-
or any potential bombs onboard. He knows where there's a stash of old TNT . I only hope no one shows him where the donkey wheel is. He will f it up.
-
That weird skull doll Claire had is foreshadowing one dead baby. So was the hospital equipment flat lining. So was Damon Lindelof saying we should ask the consequences of dying in the side-backs. So was the vision of the blonde boy covered with blood. All we need is a scene on the island that establishes Jack's wife was pregnant once but never gave birth. Kate is going to have to correct a miscarriage of justice by not running away from responsibility. Kate is going to protect Aaron and the island.
-
In LA X Charlie Pace is lead off flight 815 in handcuffs. He is arrested and charged with attempted heroin smugglingMeanwhile, in the flooded communications room of the Looking Glass station, small fish swim in through the shattered porthole and nibble on the last few scraps of his once bloated remains.While in jail awaiting trial he develops a severe toothache and Bernard is called in to extract an impacted molar.The ebb and flow of the water causes Charlies skeletal remains, still clad in his water-soaked, rotting clothes, to drift back and forth in the flooded com-room at the Looking Glass.Neil is dismissed from Jury duty for stating bias against "dope shooting rock stars".A snail on a counter top nudges a Sharpie marker (brief clip of Charlie scrawling "Not Penny's Boat" on his hand) to the edge and it falls off and drifts slowly to the floor.LAPD officer Ana Lucia Cortez testifies about what she was told when she was called to pick up Charlie Pace at the airport, and his behavior in the patrol car.A smokey-cam POV journey through the jungle ends at an abandoned shelter. We see the cradle John Locke made for Claire's Aaron and a David Lynch-style extreme close up shows us a tarnished gold ring caught in the dusty folds of a pale blue blanket.At the courthouse music fan Hugo Reyes is an observer of the Pace trial and it is a hot day: one of the jurists in the back row is a sexy woman wearing her favorite blue striped shirt: she is seen slightly out of focus.At Boone's Hill Miles pauses before a wooden grave marker and stands with arms outstretched, palms downward. "There's nobody here, man" He remarks, seemingly perplexed. "No, Dude," replies Hurley, "That's Charlie Pace's grave, He was not a nobody."Sunset, the old Tailies camp: the evening tide comes in. We here the soft, echoey sounds of a forlorn, evocative arrangement of You All, Everybody. slowly the volume increases, the music becomes rockier and there is an echo of cheers and applause. The camera zooms out over the water, lower and lower, then goes below the surface; the sound volume drops and becomes more hollow and echo-ey. On the bottom of the ocean we see the torn-apart remains of Michail Bakunin's head, partial rib cage and left arm, separated from the rest of his body. A fish swims by and his single eye pops open: Immortal, for all the good it does him, and torn to bits.Charlie Pace in a slim gray suit, pastel blue shirt with white collar and a dark navy tie stands with his attorney at the defense table and pleads "Guilty, your honor."As the camera approaches the Looking Glass station the Dharma shark swims by and through a gurgley- bubbling, underwater distortion, we hear the individual notes of the Beach Boys "Good Vibrations" picked out.[poombble]Lost...
-
I don't think we need a scene with Jacks wife. I just have gone under the assumption that Jacobs influence eventually lead to Jacks separation from his wife. If that hadn't happened they eventually would have had a child. I don't think they need to explain it further than that.
-
The black and white stones being weighed in the cave symbolise two newly born babies cast out of the womb depending on the scales of justice.
-
Gotta say it man. I really wish you were writing for LOST. Or any network show. Such a great little story.
-
You wanted to see a LOST "Glee"-type high school show. Well, here's the pilot!! Enjoy!!
http://tinyurl.com/ygwc6u2 -
Spark, spark, spark as Ben Linus desperately tries to get an old Zippo lighter low on fluid to light. He holds a bundle of unstable dynamite with a short fuse in his left hand. He is in the Frozen Donkey Wheel room, his breath forming steam in the chambers chilly confines. Buzzing, rattling Smokey noise; Ben looks up in a panic and NonLocke enters the room.We rapidly cut between three scenes showing different groups of our main characters scrambling to board the Ajira plane, Widmore's Submarine and the Black Rock pirate ship.Pilot Frank Lapidus curses and shouts "Sorry folks, not enough fuel to get this thing started, let alone get us anywhere safe to land." Sun and Jin embrace.Kate is in shock, aware she is on the submarine that she sabotaged. She reaches out and takes James Ford's hand. Charles Widmore gives the order to start the engine: we see the blocks of C4 wired to the motor and then an exterior view as the submarine explodes.Sitting on the beach arm in arm, Vincent at their side, Rose and Bernard see the submarine explosion explode in the distance. Rose smiles and shrugs: business as usual on Crazy Idland."I'm afraid I can't let you do that, Ben." says NonLocke as the lighter continues to spark but fails to light. Benjamin Linus sees the nitroglycerin glistening and dripping from the ancient explosives and his hand and throws the lighter down on the floor like a petulant child with a broken toy. "Son of a bitch!" he shouts and slams the bomb in his hand down hard against the spoke of the FDW.Cut to all white.[poom]Distant aerial shot as we see the island sink and be swallowed beneath the waves.The water rises to the treetops and the Black Rock creaks and begins to float away. Jack, Hurley and Miles are in the slave hull with the chains and the dynamite. Jack is casually leaning with his elbow against a box of dynamite.Christian Shepherd appears and says "It's over, Jack. You can go home now." Miles stares in shock: for all his experience talking with the dead, this is the first time he's actually seen a ghost. jack loses his balance and the top box tips over and falls. Close up of Hurley saying "What...?"The Black Rock, exterior: explosion.[poom]Lost...
-
All will be made clear next episode...and it will be rendered a moot point. Not sayin yer wrong...just saying...that horse is more than dead.
-
Still needs more Jeri Ryan.
-
He's on his way to being enlightened. He had a friendly conversation with Ben the last time he was with him. It only makes sense to see Jack NOT act like a stubborn asshole again.
-
Didn't mind Artz working at the same school as Ben, or Locke showing up as a substitute teacher, or even Alex being Ben's pet student. I can accept the accretion of coincidences is building to some significance and we need to accept it and that's fine. But what stopped this being a phenomenally good episode is the idiocy of the plot of the week in the side-backs. On which I lay the blame squarely on the same sort of bad story telling that brought us What Kate Does from these two clowns. It's nice that Ben's frustrated. Believe it. It's sly that Locke is the one who whispers in his ear to supplant an authority figure. But here's where it all goes wrong. When Ben and Alex are sat in the library under the sign that says "reference" (reference to what?) and she cosily tells him tales about the principal, I thought, well this seems a bit convenient and unlikely. But I thought maybe I like where this is going. It shows the wheels going round in Ben's head. That muscle of manipulation inside his noggin is there all right, he just hasn't been pumping any iron. When he asks Alex if the principal was molesting her, there might almost be a glimmer of him hoping that it's the case, so he's got some ammunition to make his move. Never mind how absolutely awful it would be for Alex if that is what happened. It would be good for Ben's career prospects. So when Alex tells the tale, all cosy and chummy with him, did anyone think oh look at Ben, he thought he was getting some juicy gossip to lever to his advantage, but who could possibly care about a garden variety affair between a school administrator and a nurse. He's got nothing. We've seen he's still capable of scheming, but in this world he's just a shlub who hasn't even got a good scheme going for him. So was anyone else a bit miffed when we then get treated to the nonsense about the emails and Ben actually tries to blackmail the principal? Over this? Really? What an idiot. Thought this was a ridiculous plot that would be roundly laughed at on any other show at all really. And these two writers really ought to be writing for any other show at all, really. The ones that get cancelled because they don't have good writers. But no, it doesn't stop there. Because apart from this ridiculous extortion premise which oh so conveniently drops into Ben's lap even though it's completely stupid, we've got another bone headed plot premise to go with it. And this one just happens to involve Ben's former adopted dead daughter from the island too. Because Alex wants to go to Yale. Fair enough. She's a pretty girl and clever. Good luck to her. But wait. The only person she knows who went to Yale is the principal who Ben just happens to be blackmailing? The same principal Alex was just gossiping about, setting in motion this ridiculous blackmail plot? And what's that you say, Alex desperately needs a reference letter from the principal, because for the sake of trite plots of the week on network TV the only way you can possibly get into Yale is by getting somebody to write you a reference? Well gee, too bad Alex didn't look up at that big sign on the wall above her head saying "REFERENCE" when she was busy gossiping about the person who her future depends upon. I mean the number of desperately stupid coincidences and lazy ideas are up to our knees by now - and no, I have no problem with the conceptual stuff about the side-backs and the island and the characters - it's just the idiocy of the plot that's the problem. So now Ben goes ahead with this hare brained scheme of his. And what was Ben's motivation again? Oh yes, he was annoyed because he had to go and supervise detention for a week instead of running his after school history club. So his answer to this is to possibly jeopardise the future of the kid he cares about the most in his history club by betraying something she told him in confidence. Well gee, that sure makes sense. God these two are idiots, Kitsis and Horowitz. Now obviously it's a stronger episode than What Kate Did. And they've written good episodes before in fact. And what elevates this one here is Michael Emerson's acting, some juicy developments on the island, the wonderful music, and the densely thought out sequence of rhymes and symmetries with regard to the character relationships which really are very well done though that ought to be chalked up to the architecture of the season as a whole as plotted by the show runners not the writers of the week with their school room melodramas. But the on island stuff is good, and the whole effect of what they actually achieve with Ben's character is great. But good god the side-back story is utterly dreadful and simply atrocious. Thankfully they manage to utilize it to strong effect anyway. I like Kate (really!) and Evangeline Lily too (it's just fun to snark) but what dragged What Kate Did down was being early season and we'd not seen Claire for ages and the whole thing was constructed to build to a silly cliff hanger that served no purpose so the rhymes and the symmetries and their place in the season as a whole was a lot less well done and of course the episode wasn't anchored on a performance like Michael Emerson gave this week whilst the island developments had a bit too much traipsing round the jungle asking silly questions although the temple stuff was good. I think the plot of Kate with the taxi was possibly even more useless than the school stuff. So Dr Linus was a brilliant episode, but it really had a lot of problems similar to what was wrong with What Kate Did. The fact this is LOST in full stride covers up the deficiencies of a pair of their second string writers. Presumably these two will get their own show off the back of their work here, but I wouldn't expect it to last very long. Having said that, I'm one of the few who really liked Expose, so maybe they should do that. Nice seeing the call backs to Nikki and Paolo. I read that originally they were only going to introduce Nikki, because they wanted an extra female character, so it's a pity they decided to saddle her with take a shit guy, because on her own the audience might have been more accepting of her - she is after all a good looking girl. Presumably they had some purpose in mind which was passed on to another character, so no great loss. I read there was an idea to do a flashback where it turns out in a twist at the end that the flashback was an episode of Nikki's TV show. That could have been cool. I think they learned from the mistake with Ilana. She had a sidekick at first but they kicked him to the curb knowingly. Caesar, wasn't it. Are we to infer that Miles dug up all the diamonds do you think? Might he have just found one? I like the inference that he read their dying thoughts at the graveside. But is Miles the kind of guy who having experienced people's thoughts being buried alive then goes digging for diamonds in their grave? I know Miles arrived after they died, but I'd like to think he just has that one diamond and he got it some other way. Otherwise, ewwww!
-
Sometimes a cheese curd is just a cheese curd.
-
I fully believe he would dig up dead bodies (I think he has no problem with that- lots of experience) to get the diamonds.
-
Menu items on the LA X 815 flight, while deboarding the plane? Have to go back and watch....but he was definetly talking about Mr. Cluck's on the phone with someone in the sideways world.
Could the 'cheese curds' dream he was having just have been another 'bleed over' between the two realities? Like Jack's appendix scar.
As for Miles 'grave robbin'? Well, it's possible Nikki or Paulo, who were shown to be trying to screw each other over time & again over the possession of the diamonds...could it be possible one of them took a few out of the bag for themselves for safe keeping, in case one took off with the whole bag? So, Miles merely picked up on where the few hidden diamonds were?
Either way...for 8.8 Million Dollars? I would have dug up my MOM'S grave! Hell, for $100k I would have dug it up. Miles...lest we not forget...IS an opportunist. Old habits die hard. -
Miles wouldn't have had to do much digging to get those diamonds. Really dont think it would have bothered him that much. Me, not at all.
Just sayin' -
Shout Out to Expose was worth the whole Nikki Paolo thing. Everything outta him is gold. The sub is there for the survivors to leave on in the finale. Jack and Locke are the 2 in the end. Jack is Jacob, Locke will be the new Smokey somehow. Hurley might be Jacob but just because Sawyer is gonna die so Jack/Kate will have something. Jin will live, Sun will die, mark my words. Sun is DOA baby. Sayid is gonna die. Ben will die at some point. Miles will live and so with Frank (well maybe not Frank) its all coming to a head biatches! Wow, why did I say that as a sign off?
-
Was part of the group who came to the island on Widmore's behalf to find Ben and also had the $3.2 million dollars plot with Ben so it's nice to see them interact again in this episode, just ahead of Widmore himself coming to the island in a submarine! The diamond stuff is cute and a nice fit. But there's something more significant about making Miles prominent here. Babies being born on the island. Miles was born on the island in 1977 and promptly left a few months old. Does this remind you of anyone? Bit similar to Aaron, don't you think, born on the island, leaves a few months later. Now Miles came back. Will Aaron? Was Miles the last baby to be conceived on the island BEFORE the incident? I think the first baby to be conceived on the island AFTER the incident was Ji Yeon. Was Miles the last baby to be BORN on the island before the incident? I think the first baby to be BORN on the island after the incident was Alex. I don't know if it was made clear if Miles was either born or conceived on the island or not but it's definitely a direction they could take I think. And if he was, he'd be the last baby who was, because Alex and Aaron were conceived off island and Ji Yeon was born off the island. So is Miles important and slipping totally under the radar? His ability with dead people - it's strange, isn't it, how we've speculated Jacob is about new life and children and MIB is about death and bodies. What to make of the purpose of Miles' gift? And now he has touched Jacob's ashes. Did Jacob touch Ben in death? Has Jacob now also touched Miles in death? Body and soul. An island baby. Coincidences? Miles really slips under the radar by not having so much to do and being seen as sarcastic entertainment but he's out lived Daniel and Charlotte without his role being clear. Strange too that he looped round to the beginning of his own life and escaped the incident. Was that the purpose of the time flashes? To rescue Miles? He seems to be hiding in plain sight. But now there's a way to connect him to the Jacob mythos as well as the island baby mythos and the dead spirits mythos. Don't know what any of it means though. Seem to remember Ken Leung wasn't auditioned. They saw him in The Sopranos episode "Remember When" - dealt with Junior's old age, Leung's character's daddy issues, and Tony's distrust of Paulie - and liked him so much they offered him a job. So is Miles important? They cast the role with an actor they picked out themselves and I don't think that's the way it usually works. Did they have something very specific in mind? One wonders what episodes got cut in the abbreviated season four. The other thing to remember is Miles came with Widmore's people on the freighter, BUT, and this is a big but, Bram tried to recruit him to the shadow of the statue gang right before hand. Now he's ended up in Ilana's group anyway, just as Frank has. The two other people we saw Jacob and Ilana visit after 815 crashed were Hurley and Sayid. So Miles is presumably at least as significant as them. He's more integrated into the core group of characters than his sarcasm makes it seem.
-
Also remember Eko getting involved in the story of the psychic and those voices on the tape of the dead girl's autopsy in Australia? I think maybe that story has passed to Miles. Something else to bear in mind is Eko was having visions involving his dead brother Yemi. Yemi got shot on that drug plane, so possibly was dead when he arrived on the island. So was the dropped Yemi story line building into the Christian Shepherd storyline? Does Miles being able to speak to the dead constitute the direction they chose to go with that element of Eko's story too?
-
...I like the theories only cuz i like Miles so much and want him more integral to the story...
-
What she was doing in that scene wasn't actually finding out information but making sure Miles got a good whiff of those ashes without having his suspicions raised? And in the episode in which we see all about island baby Alex, we conveniently don't remember this other grave robbing, ghost whispering island baby named Miles? It does feel like this episode was quietly doing a lot of heavy lifting to re-establish him as something other than Hurley's sidekick in snark, whilst totally not drawing attention to that fact. The other thing with Miles is if he's been talking to the spirits he might know a heck of a lot he doesn't let on. Underneath the sarcasm, you see him knowingly check himself sometimes and let something drop. You think he's going to say something sarcastic and then chooses not to, but actually it's more than that. Maybe that would undermine Ilana forgiving Ben, or not being more vehement with him in the first place. So maybe she just had suspicions. But I think something else was up with those ashes.
-
aka Marvelman, written by Alan Moore. It got pretty lame but the first arc is classic. Anyway there is something about Lost now that's making me think of it.
-
Seems like a dark joke or a throwaway nod to an old episode nobody mentions much just to acknowledge those characters as the series ends. And it is those things. But beneath the sly winks it's doing a lot else. It's saying remember this is who Miles is. Can we trust him? He's sneakily got his hands on eight million dollars of diamonds without telling anyone. What else has he been up to? Yeah we laugh with him, and we like how he mucked in with Sawyer and Hurley when he got stuck in the 1970s, but he hadn't got much choice about that. Remember when he first came to the island how prickly he was? Now sides are being taken, how loyal is he? His conversation with Sayid last week showed how matter of fact and astute he is. Ditto his bluntness with Kate, which was also shaded with an awareness that they weren't in 1977 any more and he wasn't going to be Sawyer's deputy. So will Miles have any loyalty to Widmore his former boss? Remember he rejected Bram's overtones. He's with Ilana, for now. The diamonds remind us Miles might be in it for himself. So that's the other side of it. The character of Miles, as opposed to how he fits into the plots and island myths. There's actually a lot to him, and yet he seems under utilized. But again it's because of the sarcasm. There's plenty there built up for him to be quite significant. We know a lot more about him than Frank. Obviously Frank has some purpose too, but I think the obviousness of hey what is Frank doing there is a bit of a red herring to draw attention away from asking those questions about Miles. Though Frank's interesting and hilarious too and I wonder what else they have in store for him apart from the pilot stuff. Frank looked crazy cool in the abandoned village in his bloody pilot uniform talking with Sun and Christian last year. Like an extra from a David Lynch film. The way the camera was roaming on to him as they stood on the beach was great this week too.
-
LOST has a great look and feel to it this year I think, and the music is great. LA X seemed to be paying homage to Hitchcock, with the music and the Kate story line. That was my annoyance with What Kate Does, was expecting that Hitchcock pastiche to continue, but it was flat compared to the second hour of the two parter, which was mad with all manner of shit happening all at once it seemed. What Kate Does should have paid homage to Mulholland Dr, something like that. Whatever the beats were for that side-back, the way they put them on screen and dramatised it was terrible. Doesn't stand up as an episode. It's one thing to say oh it will be apparent what it meant when the show is over but that's a cop out. It's apparent what lifting was going on with the plot mechanics now, What Kate Does was just not a very evenly written episode. Though I still go back to that line between Kate and Jack when they agree to "take care" of Sawyer and Sayid. They mean helping them through their trauma, but I think that's foreshadowing conflict, maybe death. Kate and Jack are going to take some very difficult decisions with regard to Sayid and Sawyer.
-
The one problem I have with the "who are the candidates question" is that I can't get hugely excited about the final choices.
This is because the individual flashbacks and somewhat poor handling of the Island ensemble mean we don't get a chance to get really close to a character - e.g. Sawyer feels like he's been MIA for a while now.
Its only the relatively stronger written characters that you might care about, such as Sawyer and Hurley - the rest being the candidates - meh.
Jacks improved a lot but he gives off the vibe of the little boy who doesn't get to go into the hillside with the Pied Piper because he's broken. -
Or at least the first half. I may be forgetting, or missing, something but I don't quite understand the relationship between Ben/The Others and Jacob. Wasn't it the case that Ben never actually communicated with Jacob? How did the list of names get to Ben and the Others? Also in Dharmaville, I was struck by their fancy clothes. Why do they change out of them into barefeet and rags when they go back to the temple? anyway it was a pretty cool episode. I remember that mini-season as being annoying but, for instance, I "get" Juliette now, in retrospect. At the time she was the worst, but it's pretty obvious they had at least planned her story out (basically being a captive herself)
-
I think they said that the list came via Richard
-
Thanks ... I thought it might have been that. Now on the other hand, Ben brought Locke to the cabin to see Jacob. What was Ben seeing there? He himself said nothing. Or was he being communicated to, just not able to see the entity within (we know it wasn't Jacob but Ben THOUGHT it was, right? I guess I'm not sure how Ben "interfaced" with the cabin. If it was indeed the MIB in there posing as Jacob, AND Richard was giving him info from the real Jacob ... Wouldn't there have been a conflict earlier. Something like MIB instructing one thing and Jacob another through Richard? They are at odds, after all.
-
...Why dont you do subject titles? i likes what you say but i usually skip over it cuz of the lack of title... come on sir/maam/it
-
That was BEN'S own list to get who he needed to manipulate Jack into performing surgery. Has nothing to do with Jacob or Richard.
-
LOST
-
It makes you wonder if Ben was EVER 'in favor' with Jacob...but, if he was...Could Ben's own 'selfish' list have been what caused him to fall out of favor with Jacob?
-
It hasn't been cleared up yet but they have hinted a few times and I believe that Ben was taking orders from Smokey and misleading other people to believe he was in contact with Jacob.
Either that or Smokey was pretending to be Jacob and misled Ben. I thought season 3 was the highpoint of the series, Ben and Juliet were the two extra people ever added to the show that helped it the most. And that season had flashes before your eyes, par avion and that one I can't remember the name of where Juliet and Kate are handcuffed together. :)
While I don't care much about the triangle, that stuff does affect the tone of the show and I wish they had kept Jack/Juliet and Sawyer/Kate as the pairings. Jack was kind of a dick not getting how much Juliet digged him. -
So Ben's list was only three people? I wish I could remember better. I do think the Jacob/Ben/MIB triangle needs to be cleared up. Jacob certainly was in contact with Ben at some point, at least via Richard. But apparently so was MIB, via the cabin. Can someone clear up if Ben was actually in communication with MIB (assuming that's the cabin entity)? Again, I feel like at one point he revealed he'd never actually heard Jacob (though unbeknownst to him he really meant MIB)
-
I brought up a wacky theory, it got shot down, let it drop I should. It only got thee comments, rall negative. No one thinks Jin could have died when the Island moved and been substituted ever since. Fine.I wish the people who refuted the idea had done a better job.One argued that not every frame seen on screen is canon. Citing crew members caught in shots. Well, okay, that's fair... but the fact that Jin was NOT on the deck of the freighter when it exploded was proof that he was alive. The scene ran thus: Jin on deck, helicopter takes off, Sun screams, freighter explodes, Jin is believed dead. The pre-explosion moment proves he managed to get off the deck and could have survived. if that scene "doesn't count", we're back to Jin being dead.It was said that the show would not ignore a years worth of continuity by saying that the Jin we saw flash back in time and spend three years with Dharma wasn't him. But, um, the show did show us a "Locke" for a year who turned out to be NonLocke/MIB. How can you say they wouldn't do something if they rather famously did it already?Of course, there's a matter of continuity. Though all we know is that after three years, Jin now speaks much better English than he used to. But that doesn't prove he's someone else; people can learn.Other than Sun, who he was separated from the entire time, does anyone on that island know anything about JIn? If you spent three years with someone posing as someone you barely know, would you suspect a fake?JIn spent that time pretending to be a guy who came to join the Dharma Initiative. He was a spy, that was his cover, it was a lie. If his entire three years there was a lie, how does that prove it wasn't a bigger lie and he was an entity posing as Jin?So Ford spent three years as Jin's boss, helping him learn English. Did he ever know Jin well enough to spot a fake? Did Hurley? Miles?I said that the O6 headed towards the island on a helicopter from the freighter explosion site when it vanished: Jin was swimming from that same location. They had to be closer, yet the Island took him and not them? Someone said Jin was picked up in the water by a boat and brought to the island. Did they pick up Jin and not the imposter? All that would prove is that if Jin drowned and was replaced by an entity capable of posing as a dead person, that it could not have been MIB (the being we know who can pose as dead people) since we don't think he's able to leave the island. And that fact that Jin and NonLocke co-existed, and that Jin continues to exist after we've been told that MIB can no longer shape change, proves that JIn is not Jacob or MIB.Assuming GhostJacob really is Jacob in spite of Richard's advice to distrust him.So if there are only two Island Entities and neither are Jin... than why have we never seen Jin and KidInWhite together, huh? Got ya there.Oh sure, Jacob is dead but his ghost appears to Hurley as Jacob and to NonLocke as KidInWhite-with-or-without bloody hands. Assuming Jacob is KidInWhiteWithOrWithoutBlodyHands and that they're both the same Kid and neither of them are BackwardstalkingWalt, WetWalt or TallWalt. Or guy stuck in time shopping down the csame tree to build a cabin. And that everyone's abandoned the old premise that The Island itself is a conscious entity.So the absolute definitive proof that Jin is not dead is.. well, I'm sure it exists. No, not "because you don't want it to be true". Gonna need something more solid than wishing Tinkerbelle is alive or chanting "Don't die, ET".No, not "Sun isn't important anymore". Really, one of the season one original characters, one of the 06, a possible candidate and one of the only people ever capable of standing up to both her father and Charles Widmore, expendable? Uh-uh.C'mon, sock it to me. Jin can't possibly have been dead since the freighter exploded because...Whatcha got?
-
Since I'm obsessing over this now, this is part of what Lostpedia says of Jacob's Lists:
Later, in "The Other Woman", Ben doesn't specifically say he is talking about Jacob's list, but it is implied when he says, "Who are we to question who's on the list and who's not?" to Juliet in response to her concerns about taking Zach and Emma from the tail-section survivors.
In "The Incident, Part 2", Ben talks about Jacob giving Ben lists and bits of paper, in reference that there was more than one list. -
C'mon, sock it to me. Jin can't possibly have been dead since the freighter exploded because...Whatcha got?
Because...Jin cannot BE killed. He is a Candidate. If it were JIN & Alpert watching that dynamite fuse burn....it would have gone out....Just as it did with Jack.
That's what I've got.
-
I thought everyone thought Kate was the Canned Id Eight.Or was that just one guy rephrasing the same thought fifty times?
-
What does Miles Know?Speaking of lists, does anyone have a list of who all if buried in Boone's Hill? Boone, obviously, Nikki and Paolo, sure, AnaLucia Libby Scott Shannon probably. The Others killed in the raid on the beach? Possibly. If Miles has spent time sitting up there reading dead minds, what has he learned?Other than "Trust no one" and "If someone pulls out a gun, run or duck."
-
but as much as so many of u seem to think, until they show smokey morphing intto unlocke i dont think the two are one in the same.
-
So you're saying the captioning in te pop=up videos are not canon? that when NonLocke appears on screen and the captions says "this is the smoke monster", you don't believe them?Fair enough, Care to justify that belief?
-
Locke at the Purge Pit. Ben had him dead to fuckin rights. Surely a fatal wound, no? As Locke lay there dying, Walt appears...and gives him the strength to pull himself OUT of that mass grave. "You still have work to do"
Juxtaposed...
Michael (likely another Candidate) is standing on board the C4 laden Kahana...With the means to blow it to smithereens to save his mates on the island, tells Jin to get to safety...then gets visited by Christian...who tells him "You can go now".
While Locke's candidacy was extended...Michael's was revoked. -
the weirder and more far-fetched, the more fun.Yeah, remember that episode of All In The Family when Gloria had a miscarriage and a boy dressed all in white with bloody hands appeared on an island and suddenly Lionel was played by someone else? Same thing.
-
It is odd,given the late date of the series, that we haven't been treated at least once to the transformation. To me, it seems like more of a deliberate avoidance of something that could possibly come off pretty hokey, as the season premiere's underwater CG and a few other dodgy effects. Seems like its been telegraphed pretty clearly that Unlocke IS Smokey, ie, SmokeyCam, etc.
-
but Rose is the Candied Date. you know it's true.
-
Mar 11, 2010 5:14:59 PM CST
VikkiMarsdale: Darlton said the popups cannot be trusted.
by royston lodge
In the official podcast, Darlton said that the popups cannot be trusted 100%, because they are compiled by ABC and not by the LOST production team, and because minor errors have appeared in the popups in the past.
Specifically, the popups called the loony bill an "institute" instead of an "institution".
A minor point, to be sure, but it was enough to get an official clarification out of Darlton. -
maybe im remembering wrong but werent nikki and paulo buried with the diamonds, as in i remember somone dumping them in the grave with them, spilling t hem. so it makes perfect sense to me that miles, sitting near their graves can easily find one laying the dirt , correct ? u people think too much sometimes...sheeez
-
he can hear dead people's thoughts. nuff said
-
Darlton has gone to GREAT LENGTHS to NOT show us shit like that...
They had every opportunity to show us:
1. John disappearing before Alpert's eyes during a time flash. They didn't.
2. The Losties who didn't flash to 1977 aboard flight 316...and landed in 2007...weren't shown watching the selected few simply disappearing in front of their eyes...or...transporting ala 'Star Trek' off the flight. Sure, Sun mentioned "one second they were there...the next...they were....gone. Darlton could have shown us this happening. They didn't.
3. They could also have shown us Smokey transforming into Alex or Yemi's forms, or any of the other characters we have seen appearing where they shouldn't. They didn't.
4. We never saw Ben or Locke magically beaming onto the desert floor after turning the Frozen Donkey Wheel. The just woke up there. Darlton could have shown us that happening. They didn't.
5. They could have shown us how Miss Austen ended up forty feet high in a tree after Jughead was detonated, when she was clearly only feet away from the drill hole when it went off. They didn't. (Fun fact: Evie Lilly LOVES climbing trees. Always has. She told Darlton this one day. I think THAT had more to do with it than anything). However...they didn't show it happening.
Why? Your guess is as good as mine....but I'll venture one.
They didn't want to turn the show into FULL ON Sci-fi. Had we seen Jack, Kate, Hurley & Sayid magically beaming off the Ajira flight right before our eyes...some fans (me included) would have rolled their eyes and turned off their televisions. It would have transformed the tone of the show from LOST to Stargate in a fraction of a second.
By NOT showing us these miraculous events unfloding before our eyes...they leave these unfolding events (very wisely) to OUR OWN IMAGINATIONS. Thus, not turning off half the audience fan base who merely wants the show to stay as 'grounded in plausibility' as possible.
If you NEED to actually SEE Smokey transform into Locke for you to believe it...what does that say about your imagination?
trust me...you probably WILL see this happen before it's all said and done...but not until Darlton is 'sure as shit' that they have us comfortably wrapped around their little fingers....and damn sure that when they DO show this unbelieveable thing occuring...we'll ALL be too caught up in what's unfolding to care.
I don't mean to get your silky boxers in a bunch...but just be thankful Darlton knew better than to try to shove those over the top sci-fi moments down our throats. -
*Last things first... Cheif & Vader...This is the the handshake Jack and Ben should have done:
http://tinyurl.com/DopeShake
†≠Ω
*The LOSTies, The Others, The Dharmas, The Freighties, The Ajiras, The LA Xies, The Templers. The Non-Johns, The Beachies, and The SUBies. I wash thinkin bout all of the factions that have come and gone and are coming and the camps they inhabit... Then I read back through that list and it occurred. Don't it kind of read like a C stage lineup of unknown bands at some music fest. hmmpf. Festival. Click whhhhrr.
Ever been to Burning Man? Know where it is held? BLACK ROCK desert. And they burn a big man. And they burn a Temple. And there are freaks and monsters and symbology and 'Alt'-Everything.. and lots of walking.. and spontaneous hook ups. Medicine Men and Magic Women. Funnily, dogs are not allowed anymore.
The whole show, LOST, is going to be a drug induced vision of Ch-AHrlie ..at Burning Man. yep.
*Widmore's sub. 1) As someone mentioned above, the revelation won't be his sub...but who he has on board. I agree. ..and B) did ya notice in the same episode that Hugo asks Richard if he is a cyborg we get a nice Terminator style red reticle view through the WidSUb Periscope of The Beachies..
"Who is in authority here? - Please... - Shut up! You still don't get it, do you? He'll find her. That's what he does. That's all he does. You can't stop him. He'll reach down her throat and pull her fucking heart out! " ~wink wink. -
When he was confessing to Sun about being behind her abduction.. He asked, "You gonna tell Jin?"
She answered. "No, because then I would have to dig another grave."
I always liked the non-specificity of it ..meaning you couldn't be 'fore' sure if she was referring to a grave for Sawyer from Jin's vengeance or for Jin from her knowing how Sawyer would operate in that scenario. Sun's a smart lady. -
I got NO ambivilence about Sun's reply whatsoever. She was talking about diggin SAWYER'S grave. Jin would have killed the shit out of that con man.
-
which, knowing his character, had Sun said "yes". And he thought it so. What do you think he would have done? Run? Hide? Nope. He would have gone for the 'preemptive strike' And Sun knew that. aaaand it all comes full circle. Lee Marvin.
Sawyer's not exactly a puff ya know. Ah, but agree to disagree, like the Jack and Ben Dope Shake and increasingly larger things coming in the weeks ..to, er come. If I was right.
-
Mysteries explored!
www.sagaciouspenguin.blogspot.com
Excerpted Thought: While Jacob seems to be able to protect his Candidates to a certain extent, he certainly doesn't make anything easy for them. In fact, it's almost the exact opposite. One of my favorite revelations of the night was Miles telling Ben that Jacob didn't want to die and was in fact hoping that he was "wrong" about Ben. We all know that Jacob behaved like a mysterious, ungrateful jack-ass to Ben right before Ben knifed him, which leaves us with only one conclusion: Jacob will go to any length, including risking his own life, to force his Candidates to prove their character in the face of unwavering adversity.
"Linus" may have been crossed off both the Lighthouse and the Cave wall long ago, but Jacob still wanted to see Ben change, and was willing to give him neither an apology or nor an explanation to ease that transition. Ben's faith had to be proven in the worst possible circumstances. It's reminiscent of God's behavior toward Job in the Old Testament's Book of Job. And if this is the way Jacob feels he needs to treat all his Candidates... perhaps it helps explain just a little bit why the Others haven't been allowed to tell the our heroes ANYTHING about ANYTHING ever. Perhaps if they did, the true test of our heroes' make and mettle would be tainted.
What do you think?
Read more at www.sagaciouspenguin.blogspot.com -
-- Herc just posted a Parks & Recreation fan video my roommate and I made! Awesome!
-
A super futuristic boat is heading to the island 50 years from now (or a hover-car) and Jack is cooking fish. He asks Flocke if he wants any, and Flocke says, "No I just chewed on some Rose and Bernard."
Later, Flocke says "do you know how bad I want to kill you right now?" -
about the "zombie" season.
-
IF Sun HAD told Jin about Sawyer's lil "con"....Sawyer wouldn't have been privy to that info....and would have had no idea what the fuck was goin on when Jin snuck up and snapped his red neck like a pencil.
Sun was just making sure Sawyer knew she was doing him a very LARGE favor by letting him off the hook with Jin. Jin is NOT to be trifled with. Robert Shaw.
-
lol theyre made of a special material that resists bunching. actually in most of the instances u presented they did show a special effect, the bright light and the loud sound. but the fact that unlocke hd to physically step out of the room and the smoke monster came in , its pretty obvious. i do think t hat they are connected tho. i think it was the monster that appeared as the bloody boy to remind unlocke of the rules when he was gouing to kill sawyer. as for sawyer, by your logic, we should just assume hes dead, we havent seen him since the episode in the cave and he clearly wasnt in lockes group, after all they didnt show it..lol. but its great that lost inspires such great debates
-
Watched again. Not a lot jumped out.Some folks here seem to not like the writers who did this ep and Say What Kate?A few nice touches, though. Pa commented on the scene with Ben hooking up his dad's oxygen tank while they discuss how things would have been different if they'd stayed on that island. Nicel done.Obvious, maybe,m but I loved the repetition of the line "I saw him standing over the dead body with a bloody knife, I'm pretty sure (he killed him)". - Ben about Sayid, later Miles about Ben.VEry tiny meaningless moment, but people like the balance of black and white on the show. As Ben gets his dad's TV dinner from the microwave oven, the handle is a whitish bushed aluminum, the reflection of it in the door is pure black.The whole silly blackmail scheme and the Principals move: "If you take my job I will destroy Alex" - so clearly a stand-in Widmore metaphor.Enjoyed Arzt's naughty exhuberance over the scheme and his possible rewards, his childlike "I want aprons - LOTS of them. And equipment made in this decade."Still got a nasty "comedy relief music" vibe from the Hurley's March" music.Maybe Richards revelation that Jacob cannot be trusted isn't as important as I first thought, maybe he was just feeling betrayed, the same way Ben felt with he killed Jacob. But if he was despairing that he'd never learn what Jacob had in mind for him, why wouldn't he be glad to hear that Hugo was talking to Jacob's Ghost unless he was hinting that it wasn't Jacob?So much audience manipulation on the show, so many instances of scenes designed to make us think one thing, then show us something else. Ben in the Principals Office when Alex arrived, moving the principals name plaque and stuff, was subtly designed to make me think he had sacrificed her again and gone ahead with the scheme.Jack is gone looney tunes again. Especially that devilish grin (and the black t-shirt) as he watched the dynamite fuse burn down.Other than that he's been leading forced marches for the whole run of the series, what was his freaking hurry? Seems to me, you wake someone up, then wanting to eat breakfast before going on a hike is not an unreasonable request.Sorry, but even on second viewing, when the fuse fizzled out but was still smoldering, I was still hoping it was a fake-out and would spark back up and blow Richard, Jack and the Black Rock all to heck. Loved Hurley in that scene and his "If you want me I'll be like a mile away" line.maybe I have a morbid desire to see more violence after that Sayid episode, but it's hard to believe after Ilana and Ben stood pointing rifles at each other that they both managed to walk away from that scene alive.To Brody's list of Island Magick that we haven't been shown, add "MIB wiggles finger and Ben's bolted on shackle falls off. Very I Dream Of Bewitched.Another parallel: Ben offers to help Ilana and she ignores him, later he offers to help Sun and she accepts.While I have no objection to the outpouring of love and desire and "glad to see her again" for Tania Raymonde as teen-Alex in this talkback, Zuleikha Robinson as Ilana is the show's real sex symbol. I don't even recall seeing her mentioned by name here. Zuleikha. I like-a. Here's to you Ms. Robonson.Not getting that it's a big deal that Ben and Richard stood alone at the big reunion party. Most people have reason to not like Ben and for the most part I gather he doesn't like himself. But after being underused most of the season, nice they gave Emerson an episode to submit to the Academy for Emmy consideration.
-
of the writing, the acting and just our knowing what he know abut the character, but every scene NonLocke is in, every line, every gesture, every inflection and even - especially - every expression,,, every little glance or smile or cock of his head is so creepy as it never lets us forget for a moment that we're looking at good old Terry O'Quinn who played out pal Locke all those years, but HE'S A MONSTER.Hard to steal a Michael Emerson episode with a few small scenes, but I think he pulled it off.
-
No one has a list of the dead buried in Boone's Hill? Guy who reads the final thoughts of the dead sitting in a cemetery. That makes me wonder if he's picked up the last moments of everyone buried there. What does he know and how does he process it and what does he think and is there anything he can do with the information?Several people say this episode built him up and hinted at his importance to come.Not to be argumentative, but his first app with the GhostbusterDustbuster seemed kinda con-mannish and predatory. And he did arrive on a ship full of mercenaries. Seems a little bit that hay himself.Just sayin' if we think Miles wants money, finding the diamonds could be his final hoorah happy ending. Or not, whatever.Speakin' of, remember how important people used to think that whole "the pictures on the wall changed" business was. Well? Still important question to be answered, or continuity glitch to be ignored?
-
that's good point about why they don't show certain things. Never thought about that before.
-
"so it's turtles all the way down then
by Maniaq Feb 3rd, 2010
06:16:48 AM
funny how Desmond was just on the plane long enough to save Charlie's life - again...
someone (sorry, forget who) asked opinions on contemporary versions of Jacob/MIB for the mythical final shot of the series - I agree with you that it's probably not that Locke/Jack combination - in fact I'll go one step further and suggest a better pair would actually be HURLEY and BEN - who were both kinda chosen by their respective.. err.. players to speak on their behalf..."
like you say, we're both pretty much on the same page -
Press release to follow this weekend. We are going 1000% over what LA has planned. Believe it.
-
Told a nice short story. Good twists taking place. Jack beginning to believe. Emerson playing Ben as well as he ever has. Excellent casting of William Atherton. Fantastic heightening ending, trademark of mid-season Lost. I was a little weary of the season thus far, but now I'm excited to see it through to the end. Keep it up!
-
because their cgi budget is obviously so shitty - remember the sub last season?
that, plus I totally agree with the Cheif about drawing the line between (ahem) other shows that are a little bit more about showing you masturbatory effects and shows that actually WANT you to use your imagination... -
Yeah Lucas left it to the imagination in Empire Strikes Back when you could see Luke hanging upside down but could only hear the Wampa coming towards him. But then he screwed it up by throwing in a scene with it chowing down on a bone of its last kill and then getting up and going after Luke. Totally changed the scene and in my opinion weakened it.
-
Lostpedia has it listed as a 2 parter, but I coulda sworn I heard it was going to be a 3 parter. 1 hr the week and a half before, and 2 hrs the final Sunday. Anybody know fo sure?
-
I'd be watchin "Jersey Shore" non-stop had Darlton shown us all that crazy shit happening.
They know ONE thing....and they know it well.
They lured us in back in 2004...with a smartly written, captivating premise...a premise that gave us some of the best character driven, "THIS COULD HAPPEN TO YOU" moments in television history. Then they dished in Polar Bears and Smoke fuckin Monsters to tell us....This aint yer grandfather's Gilligan's Isle.
Those that are looking for LOST to stay grounded in reality...to not overstretch our 'suspension of disbelief' WHEREVER the story might take us....is VERY important to Darlton....AND to ABC.
This show will suceed or FAIL miserably in it's ability to resolve the who, what's and WHYS...with as little dependence on fucking CGI (remarkably done or NOT) and magical "fairy dust" bullshit that will turn this show in a 180 turnabout from what it started as.
A simple survival story.
When Jacob is explained...or, better yet...who put Jacob IN CHARGE in the 1st fuckin place is explained...or when we finally are privy to WHO "the man behind the curtain REALLY is"...Darlton will make sure that WHATEVER those answers are...will not be supplied with the use of 'hocus pocus, abra cadabra' and 'slieght of hand'.
It will resolve with the thing that drew us ALL in in the first place. The relateablity and the commonality of our own souls to those depicted in the story.
Period.
Darlton KNOWS this. It has been a fine line they have been walking since DAY ONE. I trust they have a juicy conclusion that will please as many of us as they possibly can.
But...they will NOT please everyone.
They know THAT, too. -
The reason JAWS was so fucking terrifying, and has kept people out of the water for over 3 decades, was because for three fuckin quarters of the movie...OUR OWN IMAGINATIONS had to conjure FOR OURSELVES what was lurking below the surface.
WE IMAGINED a far worse terror than any crappy practical effects or shoddy CGI could have EVER accomplished.
Spielberg is NOT a genius for coming up with this brilliant manuveur.
The Fuckin Fake Shark LOOKED FAKE! He couldn't SHOW it!
So...he did what he had to do to save the movie. His genius was...He made the movie about THE PEOPLE....NOT about the goddamn SHARK.
And when Bruce finally got presentable enough to show us on camera....SPIELBERG ALREADY HAD US SO INVESTED IN THESE CHARCTERS...we didn't CARE how FAKE it looked.
Even though Steven went 3 times over budget...and pushed the shooting schedule nearly 6 months past its deadline...He made box office history & created the very first summer blockbuster...but more importantly....
He created a movie we ALL could relate to...and a movie whose success had more to do with letting the AUDIENCE use they're OWN imaginations to fill in the gaps to achieve its goal.
Darlton has learned WELL from Steven's genius. Ya. Don't. Have. To. Show. Everything.
Our own imaginations are FAR better at elaborate CGI than anything that's been invented yet.
That includes YOU, James Cameron!
Ok....off soap box. I need a case of Apricot Brandy.
-
Mar 12, 2010 3:04:22 AM CST
Jacob had to die in order for everyone else to be saved.
by dailysportspages
Jacob = Jesus
Ben = Judas
Iliana = Mary
Her Group = Apostles (Darth Locke calls them Jacobs body guards)
Just like Judas realized what he had done and repented, so did Ben.
Judas killed himself (supposedly), and Ben was about to die too.
Ben was going down a dark path, if not for his killing of Jacob he would have never realized his inner "good" potential.
Jack would never have become the man of faith either.
So Jacobs death had to happen. And Jacob had to know it was coming in a way.
It needed to happen.
-
Just rewatched “The Variable” with Daniel Faraday. There’s so many complex and unanswered questions regarding Desmond, Faraday, Widmore, and Hawking. Starting with, why did Widmore stage the fake 815? Why did he put together the Freighter four? Who is Abaddon and what does he know? Why did Hawking explain to Desmond how he couldn’t change Charlie’s fate? Why did Eloise want to send everyone back to the island and was she in cahoots with Widmore about this? Why did Hawking need to send Daniel back to die? I’m sure Jacob and his smokie pal have some story behind them that we’ll eventually get to, but this Desmond is going to take a long time to sort through.
-
For a moment I felt it was open to interpretation that Ben had gone through with getting the principal fired then just forged Alex's letter of recommendation himself, and that was why it practically glowed in the dark from her description. But Ben doing the right thing was of course the proper outcome. But it was a nice feint if intentional, which it probably was. Those writers are capable of nice touches but their episodes generally have gaping flaws in them. I agree the island story worked and the gas canister in particular was cool. Trouble is even if somebody's name in on an episode you don't know if the things which were good Damon did himself anyway. Damon Lindelof will pass the test for them to let them into Yale, cause he's that kind of guy. Remember the old joke Simpsons writers used to tell about how any time somebody complimented them on an episode they wrote, it always turned out the jokes they really liked were all written by George Meyer? Similar with Deadwood -- Milch used to write the scripts lying flat on his back narrating them to the room around him and whoever typed up the notes got the credit. Of course Milch was crazy. There's a New Yorker profile that explains to get a feel for the Wild West he hired a hotel for a few weeks and filled it with convicts and drunks and rodeo riders just so he could hang out and see what happened. He could afford to do this because of his Hill Street Blues residuals. Hilarious.
-
Arrrghhhh!
-
Regarding Alex and the Rules and the principal being a stand in for Widmore. I think there's a bigger reflection to be teased out from that. Remember Ben sacrificed Alex not thinking the Rules could be broken but Widmore's goon Keamey broke the rules and killed Alex. Ben also presumably broke the rules by killing Jacob. The loophole in the rules? To be determined. Well the Rules in Skool are still broken even though Ben chooses not to sacrifice Alex or get rid of the man in charge. That letter of recommendation sounds a bit too good to be true. Like real glow in the dark references. So basically the principal wrote it under the duress of Ben blackmailing him and they came to an arrangement. Instead of the principals job, Ben's price for not going public was that reference for Alex. Now Alex didn't need any favours by all accounts. She's a smart kid. Maybe she deserves to go to Yale, maybe she doesn't. But the point is this power struggle between the authority figures in her life - which she innocuously played her part in but which really had nothing to do with her - has had consequences in determining her future. On the island she ends up dead because of a feud over the rules. In the side-backs she gets into Yale because of a feud over the rules. In both instances, is it right that her fate should be determined in this manner? Shouldn't she get to live her life based on her own merit, making her own choices and her own mistakes and her own triumphs? So what seems like a happy ending, with everyone getting what they want and doing the right thing... is it really? It's subtle, but the suggestion is, no, wait a minute, this isn't right either. Both outcomes break the rules. It's just in one instance the consequences are good, and in the other, the consequences are bad. Think of those scales, the white rock and the black rock. Isn't the answer for the scales to be balanced? To be fair? To be free of interference? At the moment that does not seem to be the case either on the island or in the side-backs. So a hint that both realities will ultimately need correcting? An island baby who is allowed to live free of the rules corrupting the world in their favour or against it?
-
Geddit? Geddit? No? Oh well. Keamey and the eggs. Good call to remind us about the guy who killed Alex a week before she reappears in Ben's side-back. What were those eggs all about though? Sayid has a darkness going in him and when it gets to his heart his soul will be taken or whatever. So Sayid is a bit like a hatchling if you think about it. Except it would fit better with The Moth, and The Moth was episode seven of season one, with Charlie, not episode six with Sayid. So I'm clucking at straws. Eggtown was an episode six, in season four, but that was Kate. It did however have the stuff with Miles and Ben and 3.2 million dollars, which was mentioned this week. I can't really remember what was going on in that one. Don't know if the eggs are important. Oh wait oh wow it was all about Kate's custody battles over Aaron, wasn't it? Whether she was his mummy or not. So I think the eggs definitely were an allusion to Eggtown, because last week continued to set up the conflict between Claire and Kate over Aaron. Don't think Keamey was even in Eggtown though. Perhaps he smashed an egg when he killed Alex? Are there allusions/foreshadowings here of something hatching? Are the side-backs like an egg? Aaron? David? Alex? The island? Oh I don't know. It seems to me though there was some meaningful subtext to those eggs which can't be seen yet. Desmond took a long time HATCHING. Geddit? Geddit? No? Oh, call me Moth Girl.
-
Jacob seeks to bend the rules to give people an unfair advantage? MIB seeks to bend the rules to give people an unfair disadvantage? I'm not sure though, because Jacob seems to exist in the shadows and let people exercise their own path with a little guidance, whereas MIB is much more in your face steering people. This needs to be explored further on screen and I'm sure it will be. Perhaps Christian represents the scales being balanced? As WALTer Sobchek said when Smokey went over the line, AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE THAT GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THE RULES?!
-
I too am lost when it comes to the whole Desmond, Faraday, Widmore, and Hawking plot.
Hawkings motives seem a bit of an Angela Petrelli to me at the moment. (Heroes reference, former fans and now haters of the show (like me) will know what I’m getting at!)
Whose side is Eloise Hawkings on? Widmore? She seemed in cahoots with him following Desmonds shooting,
She also seemed to be cahoots with Ben with the whole lamppost station thing (the proxy/shoes plot still seems like flaky magical nonsense to me)
Can Ben and Widmore really not kill each other? I mean are they on the honour system? (Which Ben would ignore at this stage) or can they really not physically kill each other the way Michael couldn’t kill himself with the car crash or gun? Mr BigGay seemed a little shocked that Michael actually tried the gun to the head and it jammed
Why did Ben strangle Locke on hearing Widmore’s involvement in getting the oceanic 6 back to the island? I know Jack started his ‘we have to go baaacccckk’ shit after Lockes “suicide” (That reminds me! Jack still doesn’t know Lockes death was actually a murder by Bens hand, AND that he shot Desmond while trying to kill Penny! the fact that he shared a motel room with the little schemer will creep him out now! ) did Ben just have a temper hearing Widmores name? But he knows Eloise was Widmores woman once upon a time anyway. Why was he so surprised? Plus he wanted to get back to the island anyway. Wouldn’t it have been easier to play along, help Locke get the gang together instead of the whole creating, storing and moving a dead body around LA? Surely he knew Widmore wanted people back to the island as well. Very confusing.
Does Widmore respect Desmond really? He seems to now? whats with the tough love?,
Where is Desmond now? Why was he court marshalled that time.?
What’s bugging me at the moment is the overly ambiguous motives with Widmore and especially Eloise. They did the same ‘is she good?/is she bad? contrived bullshit in Heroes with Angela Petrelli and contradicted motives constantly, proving that that show didn’t know where it was going and losing fans that couldn’t accept the inconsistencies anymore. Smallville gets away with it because it was always stupid and light (example Clark going down stairs to get breakfast only to find Lana enjoying a Coffee and friendly chat with Lionel Luthor! who she had tied up and tortured by hillbillies 2 episodes before!).
Now I’ve gone and compaired Lost to Heroes AND Smallville! Oh well, Bring it on militant talkbackers!
-
There are lots of different ways of having your eggs? The side-backs are just one hatching of many? Sayid still kills Keamey either way. Interesting...
-
Chooses not to have any eggs. What happens if there are no eggs? See it really is dangerous to count your eggs before they HATCH.
-
I've done it myself but I'm not sure why people are assuming the MIB needs a replacement. All that's been discussed on the show - and a big part of the story - is who will replace Jacob. (Why he needed to be replaced at all is a mystery to me but that's a different story)
-
Reviewed it myself, and listened for the Hurley music, sounded more ominous to me. And it continued after Hurley was out of the shot.
I dont know, music is kind of subjective. -
the reason for the fake 815 is that he didnt want anyone looking for its crash site ie The Island. the reason for the freighter is to take back the island for himself. he was going to use Keamy to KILL everyone on the island. also, if hes in cahoots with MIB that would be helping MIB accomplish his goal of killing everyone like Richard told Sawyer. Abbadon just simply worked for Widmore thats it. Charlie Fate- Eloise knew from her past/Daniels notebook that Charlie died in The Looking Glass turning of the signal. it had too happen. Daniel dying- same reason as Charlie. it happened in her past. thats why she was crying when Daniel was playing the piano. she knew -right then- that Daniel was destined to die.
-
killed Keemy on the island, not Sayid.
-
ben/widmore are/were candidates. they cant kill other candidates. Ben's Surprise- he knows widmore wants the island for himself and was/is willing to KILL anyone/everyone to get it. Ben killing Locke- he only killed him AFTER he found out he was talking to eloise. locke was going to be the leader when they got back to the island so ben couldnt have that lol. he basically used locke to get back to the island before widmore could. remember, he told locke that whoever turned the FDW can never return to the island. so,being typical ben, he manipulated his way around that. Desmond Tough Love- widmore had to "push" desmond to the island because he had to be there to talk to daniel when the isalnd was skipping through time. he had to make sure his "past" happened that specific way. eloise "pushed" desmond the same way in the Flashes episode. Desmonds Court Marshall- he was CM'ed because he went AWOL and went to see daniel in the episode The Constant.
-
dont ever and i mean EEEEEVVVVEEERRRR compare Lost to Heroes again LOL!!!!!
-
There's a rumor that there's an untitled episode on the schedule that "will be like no other episode of Lost you've ever seen". Here are a few of the things you WON'T see on that episode:An entire hour of disco balls, flashing lights, blinking Christmas tree lights, smoke, fog, sparklers and glitter.A black cloud of smoke and a white cloud of smoke making Wookie noises at each other.Something that looks like Clash of The Titans but with Egyptian gods, but it still has an annoying mechanical owl droid going biddi-biddi-biddy.An interview in which the creators, writers and key director of Lost answer questions from journalists and fans and give actual answers to everything.Lindlehof and Cuse taking turns reading troll comments of the internet and after each one they flip the bird at the camera and yell "F***ck youuuuu!"Slow motion footage from current and past end of season wrap parties showing drunk cast members doing belly bumps and then getting in cars and driving off.CGI Bea Arthur singing a song about how it's time to go, my friends.Al Gore saying "I met JJ Abrams at a fund-raiser and I was telling him how much Tipper and I enjoyed Felicity and he said he had an idea for a Global Warming PSA showing an archeologist finding the skeleton of a polar bear in a desert. I said it was an intriguing image and could he build on it and that was the last I heard from him."All the Losties, Tailies, Others, Dharmites, Mercs, Freighties and Widmore Sub Crew who ever died on the Island all rising up as Xombis and doing the Thriller dance.The Island begins to rumble and shake, the Ajira plane takes off and crashes into a treetop, the sub explodes, the island sinks, then the Black Rock sinks - all during the opening tease leading up to the Lost title swirls; the entire rest of the episode is set in the LA X continuity with no explanation of what happened except at the very end of the episode we're shown the island under water again, just like in the opening of LA X. (Oh, wait, that's what it will be - sorry; "spoiler")A best of blooper reel in which every time Kate blows a line someone, usually Ben, Locke, Jack or Hurley, screams "F*cksh*t p*ssc*nt!" at the top of their lungs.An entire episode of nude swimming and waterfall showers. Darlton and Abrams are keeping that one in their vaults.
-
Yeah, they made a huge point in season 4 with Michael. "The Island wont let you die."
It was true off Island as Michael could not kill himself. (Sorta like Richard huh?)
Anyway, I'm surprised Ben was able to kill Locke.
Unless of course, it's all a plan made by MIB that Locke could be killed. He did appear as Christian to help Locke along.
I just wanna know if MIB was Christian when he told Michael, "You can go now." and then BOOM!
Kinda like how Richard wanted to go out.....tough to figure out...ugh! -
"wanna know if MIB was Christian when he told Michael, 'You can go now.'"Has MIB ever been seen off the island (that we know of?) Was the freighter ON the island?I refer to my theory that all off island appearances or all appearances period of Dead Christian have been Jacob.Have we ever seen Jacob, Christian and Clark Kent together?
-
I know Widmore was trying to cover up the plane crash – but how did he know it crashed on the island? I know Abbadon works for Widmore but how and why did he suggest Locke go on his Walkabout? I know the Freighter was sent to kill everyone on the island, but why did he recruit and send the Freighter four (Miles, Lapidus, Lewis, Faraday)? I know Hawking sent Faraday to die on the island because it was his destiny, but why was she so afraid to break this fate?
I forgot to include the Hatch explosion. How did everyone survive and why was Desmond naked? How did Desmond get clairvoyance from this explosion?
-
"Why did he put together the Freighter four?" - The four were a mercenary (who we can ignore, she was just their protection), a theoretical physicist, a cultural anthropologist and someone who can tell how someone died and hear their last words.
Seems like Widmore was intending to investigate someone who died and hopefully communicate with that person. Jacob wasn't dead and Widmore likely didn't care about talking to the dead among our heroes, so it seems likely he was intending to learn something about the Man in Black - Smokey. The make-up of the team would indicate he wanted to learn more about MiB and how he died.
Also given that Jacob was still flesh and blood and Smokey/MiB did not seem to be at that time, and that Keamy was to kill everything living - it would seem that Widmore was on MiB's side. Maybe even that he wanted to kill Jacob. The presence of Faraday might indicate he was hoping Faraday would figure out a way to use his skills to free Smokey. Which leads to an possibly interesting thought: maybe the way of freeing smokey is via the alternate timelines. That's how smokey wants to "leave".
Anyway, that's all I got for now. :) -
just because it does'nt match up to what u think should "satisfactory" doesnt mean they're not right. thats whats cool about Lost. why do YOU think he suggested Locke go on his walkabout? im sure there's enough evidence for u to infer a answer that will suit YOU brotha...
-
i think u cant kill any candidates ON-island. Off-island is free reign looks like...
-
if u recall ben was going off island alot. there was that video of widmore interrogating one of ben's men. thats where he got the info of the plane. Idol answered ur freighter question again. "Breaking this fate"- again in the Flashes episode she told desmond that the island/fate always finds a way to course correct. she prolly could have tried to save faraday but, he would have died in some kind of "course correction". the Hatch- like Brody said,up top a little, the writers dont show us everything so we can use our imagination. do u really need to see desmond being "transfomed" by the hatch?? u can infer that the island properties made him special and...naked lol?
-
Widmore is in cahoots with MiB. This means Abaddon was as well. And the walkabout thing was part of MiB’s plan, as were the Freighter Four and all of Widmore’s other actions. I called your answers unsatisfactory not because I disagreed with them but because they didn’t answer the questions I asked.
-
I don’t buy Idol’s Freighter Four explanation. If you recall the scene with Naomi it seems to imply that those four were chosen because of more than just their abilities. You also neglected to mention Lapidus. I think Widmore chose them because MiB instructed him to. Probably something to do with them being candidates or whatever. Same unknown reason everyone else needs to be on the island.
And no, I don’t think it was just a hatch explosion that transformed Desmond and made him naked. I think there’s more to it than that. Hopefully we’ll find out.
-
This is the day Desmond released the energy contained in the Swan hatch, imploding it. I think this will have serious ramifications on the flash sideways. Perhaps that world will be destroyed on November 27. Maybe this has something to do with Desmond’s abilities.
-
I was just throwing out one possibility that seemed intriguing to me. We definitely deserve more of an answer on those things. I don't want every last i dotted and t crossed but the big picture should be filled in, including most of your questions above.
-
hopefully it will answer some things for u brotha...
-
How is it that Dogen knows what the smoke monster is, what MiB is, and is needed to protect the temple when Benjamin Linus didn’t know any of this. Ben thought the smoke monster was something that was supposed to ‘judge’ people. He has no idea who MiB is.
My theory is that Dogen was recruited shortly after the Oceanic 6 left the island and the rest went back in time. Jacob knew it was end game and that he needed someone to deal with MiB when Locke returned. He recruited Dogen and gave him the protection ability specifically for this purpose. At the same time, he revealed to Dogen what the smoke monster was – something he never told Ben or Richard. I think Dogen needed a flashback, not just to explain his character but an opportunity to tie up a lot of other loose ends.
-
There is no absolute good or evil on the earthly plane. There is no black or white, only gradations between. NonLocke/MIB, Jacob, KidInWhite, VariousWalts, GhotChristian, "The Island" and Widmore are all conscious entities - lower case deities, if you must - and all just different shades of gray. that explains why folks here have such a hard time deciding who the bad guy or good guy is: they all embrace both extremes.If an Island "Power" - Jacob - can travel off the island, who's to say an Island Power - Widmore - couldn't be DonkeyWheel Exiled from the Island? Wouldn't that explain why Jacob's death allows Widmore to locate and travel to the Island?
-
I think many are over-thinking the rules about who can kill what and why regarding the candidates and suicide, etc. It’s as simple as Jack put it – the dynamite didn’t blow up because it wasn’t Jack’s destiny to die there. Just like it wasn’t Michael’s destiny to shoot himself in the face. Everyone in the show has their own destiny created for them that will be fulfilled. Probably by Jacob.
I think the reason the island is special is that it gives someone the power to create destinies for people (i.e. a ‘Magic Box’ of wishes). Jacob destined every one of his candidates to come to the island, so they did.
-
wow thats like the color black calling a pot a kettle lol...
-
Not only did Widmore get that Black Rock journal at auction, he probably read Daniel's journal at some point too. Daniel is his son. His son gets shot in 1977 by the woman who is pregnant with Daniel when she shoots him. Eloise knows all about the bomb. It would be in the journal that Miles and Charlotte and Daniel get hired by Widmore and go to the island in 2004 on the freighter. So Widmore does it. Plus we saw Miles on the island as a baby. We saw Charlotte on the island as a young girl. We saw Daniel's mother on the island pregnant. So in addition to their abilities, they have links to the island. Is it possible being born on the island is similar to being touched by Jacob? Widmore may be coming at this candidate malarkey from another direction. He may think those people in combination could achieve something that MIB or Smokey would need a candidate for. Or, he's just fulfilling the prophecy of Daniel's diary, because it seems important. I forgot about Daniel and Ethan before, but it seems possible that Miles was the last person conceived and born on the island before the incident, so the bit with him and Jacob's ashes is intriguing to say the least, even if it's a red herring. Can we assume Widmore will have a new group with him on the sub capable of doing the task he had in mind for the freighter folk? Or does he consider the freighter mission a success? The last remnant of that really is Miles - Frank being 815's intended pilot is hardly a coincidence him being on the freighter then flying Ajira, but he's not on the island as a result of the freighter, he left and came back. Miles is still on the first go around off the freighter. Bram tried to recruit him though. Yet Frank and Miles are with Ilana for now. Was Ilana's group conceived much for the same purpose as the freighter group? If so, could Miles and Ilana now come into conflict? I have a feeling the freighter story was messy and won't seem coherent by the time we're finished. There seems to be some repetition and redundancy in some of what was introduced amidst all the leaving the island and coming back and going back in time and going back and the freighter coming to the island and Ajira coming to the island now the submarine coming to the island. I think what's going to be important is how many times the donkey wheel got turned. Other than that, they'll pick and choose who they need from which go around and the specifics of who they like came when won't really matter except for fitting together the stuff they run with in a plausible fashion.
-
So Eloise is pregnant. What if she spins the frozen donkey wheel at the precise moment the incident occurs - sending the time travellers back to 2007 at the precise moment that Jacob dies. Erm, I'm not sure what I'm trying to speculate here maybe someone can help me... But it seems like there you could have the incident, the frozen donkey wheel, the death of Jacob, and a baby all linked together somehow.
-
ok sure yes it's an incomplete list but AS FAR AS ANYONE KNOWS SO FAR the name WIDMORE does not appear in either the cave, or the lighthouse
he's NOT a "candidate" and never was
which is quite telling in and of itself, considering The Wid has not yet made an appearance in the ALT not-an-alternate-reality... -
http://tinyurl.com/NYCLOSTFINALE
-
She was probably recovering from the KO shot Richard gave her before they broke into The Dharma Barracks. Doubt it.
-
get line breaks?
http://tinyurl.com/NYCLOSTFINALE -
Anyone see his name on any screen grabs from the Lighthouse?
-
he was the LEADER of the others. doubt jacob would have a non-candidate for a leader...
-
"You can't die yet, Michael; the Island won't let you."What was The Island's purpose with Michael? He had already capped AnaLucia and Libby, rescued Walt, abandoned Vincent, returned on the Freighter. After that, well, he talked to some people on the ship and had some limited effect on exactly when the Freighter exploded. Then Christian told him he could go. That was it?No, you cant shoot yourself, no you can't die in a car crash, We need you to get on a freighter, come back to he island and.. here, hold this wire. Okay, thanks. [POOM!]
-
If I lived in New York instead of California I'd definately be there.
-
hence...line break.
I'm torn about the Tampa Bay Finale Watch party. I know our local ABC affiliate has something huge planned...but...do I really wanna watch this thing with a ton of strangers who are undoubtedly NOT going to be able to keep their traps shut during the entire 2 hours?
Think I'm better off watching the finale the same way I watched the premiere on September 22nd, 2004. Alone...with sound up full. eating a block of cheese in my underwear.
Speakin of which...Anyone else think LOST will END, in the story, on May 23rd 2010? -
what was a block of cheese doing in your underwear?
-
and he's a big fan of the show, too. He also likes wearing my underwear.
-
the name DAWSON was both in the lighthouse and the cave
and tho there appears the name FARADAY on both lists, it is accompanied by neither the name WIDMORE nor HAWKING (that we know of)
make of that what you will -
All you people are about to learn something new in the next couple of months and years...
Can any of you guess what that is?
What do you think you are gonna learn here?
How to be the best possible person?
Wrong!
What you will learn, here, in Selection is FAILURE!
You may be the belle of your battalion and the homecoming queen, but we got 360 of you hand picked for this round of selection. All of you the most likely to succeed...
360 of you.. and I'll dress up like Bambi if 8 of you make it through. Hell. If 6 of you pass muster.. I'll dress up like Bambi and his Mom.
You wanna know why it is so hard?
Because it is our job to make you fail.
We are gonna weed out the weak.
This is not a training course.
So here is your handy guide...
Everything you do is an individual effort.
You will assist no other Candidate.
You will not accept assistance.
Daily instructions will be given.
Pay attention.
Read nothing into the instructions that is not stated.
Those of you who fail to live up to corp standards will be removed.
If at anytime.. you no longer wish.. to continue with the Selection course, inform a cadre member of your desire to withdraw, you will immediately be returned to your Parent unit.
Questions?
Have a good one. -
with cheeeesssseeee....er anyway....
-
of the cave walls or lighthouse dial. The real set pieces and props probably have everyones name.
-
back in season 2 when Jack and Kate got "coaught in a net" literally they were talking about how they were not on the list or that they were not on the good list.
-
Darlton NEEDED us to see.
-
H - 8 - REYES
&
O - 15 - FORD
...or not -
http://lostroom23muses.blogspot.com/2010/03/olivia-dunham-in-color.html
-
Here's something to keep you entertained over the long weekend. Get you LOST fix by playing Adult Swim's new online game...POLAR BEAR PAYBACK! Mind the spaces!
http://games.adultswim.com/polar-bear-payback-action-online-game.html -
@Maniaq
How do we know that DAWSON doesn't mean Walt? -
A lot of attention has been going onto those early elements of season one as we near the end. How about the season one finale? We have after all seen The Black Rock and Alex reappear in the last episode, which is interesting since the show is shifting gears into the second act of the final season. Since the Walt plot fizzled out, let's consider the plot that dominated the second half of season one - the hatch. Now the hatch gave us Desmond. An important character clearly with his own mythology which we'll no doubt return to in an important way when the time comes for that. But don't forget he ran off into the jungle for the bulk of season two before we ever got to him blowing the hatch up and going all Billy Pilgrim. So what of the hatch while it actually existed in season two? Aside from providing a location (we didn't have the temple back then) for Locke and Jack and Ben and Eko to argue over the nature of things, what did the hatch do for us? Well the thing specific to the hatch was those Dharma videos dropping clues about stuff. Eventually we got to see the 1970s for ourselves. And the guy in the videos telling us about the incident turns out to be Pierre Chang, father of Miles. So the hatch sets up the incident and it sets up Miles, Pierre Chang's son who unbeknownst to us arrives on the island on the freighter. And when the time flashes start one of the things done in 1977 is to convince Pierre Chang whatever happens with the incident, which still isn't exactly clear one way or the other, he needs to get his son off the island. So his son is alive to come back to the island and... and do what? It's interesting that the incident and the death of Jacob are linked to us it seems. Because Miles is a character you can link to the incident (Pierre Chang, the hatch, the time flashes) and now also the death of Jacob through reading the ashes. Earlier I was hypothesising that Daniel as a baby could also be linked both the incident and to the death of Jacob somehow. Is this what Widmore's freighter was all about investigating? Is this similar to the business with the candidates? One clue I wonder about is Ben blowing up that Dharma stuff to get to the Donkey Wheel. Again Dharma is a red herring for the real island significance. So too with the incident? We shouldn't be looking at the Dharma stuff but what's hidden underneath it? It seems likely to me that the characters with knowledge of what happened as a result of the events of the season five finale are trying to identify from among the characters involved which ones are the pieces they need to correct something that got altered there. They know part of the story but not all of it and that's why there's this question about who the person is who is important. Something happened and they are trying to figure out who is the key to understanding it. And it will have to do with how Jacob managed to die but still have influence on the island. Some will want to bring him back, others will want to make sure he stays dead and finish the job. I think the freighter characters were replacements for the tailsection characters who didn't work out. And the Ajira and submarine characters will be used to augment whatever design they have for these roles. At the moment, Miles is it. And obviously Desmond feeds back into that whole hatch arc, and also the Widmore story line too. So I think Miles and Desmond, who were the ultimate purpose of the hatch, are two characters to keep a close eye on. It's interesting that for long stretches of time neither are given much to do.
-
That bit this week with Ben and his dad talking about going to the island and then leaving and how their lives may or may not be different... it's interesting on several levels in addition to the character shadings for Ben which were so nicely illustrated with the gas cannister. This is the first mention of the island since Desmond disappeared at the tracking shot under the water. It made me think, Ben and Roger are in a similar position, in effect, to Jack and Kate in the season three finale. They went to the island, but they left, and they are asking themselves what their lives would be like if they had chosen to stay. They think things would have been better. Jack and Kate chose to go back to the island. Is that an option for Ben and Roger in the side-back world? Now in parallel to Ben's off island life, we see that actually his life on the island isn't better at all. He killed his father and his adopted daughter died. This is the same world in which Jack and Kate left the island and came back to the island. Remember how much talk there was about the island feeling that the o6 should never have left? And how hard they tried to duplicate the circumstances of 815 as if to make up for them ever leaving? The key difference was Aaron did not return. This island reality we have now seems very screwed up. It seems possible the o6 really should never have left. Is it possible the time flashes were a type of course correction? The island taking action to make the alterations to the time line required to compensate for the o6 leaving the island, and also to correct the consequences of them leaving? Jacob touching people and Sun not time flashing seem linked to this as well. It seems likely the candidate must have been present in 1977 for some reason. Oh, the Desmond consciousness thing. The Candidate may need to be present at certain times in island history and flash around and change things to effect the outcome. People are trying to figure out who that person is to get a desired outcome. Anyway, it was interesting to me that Ben and Roger are in the position of leaving the island and wishing they hadn't, just like Jack and Kate in the season three finale. This is one problem I now have with those flash forwards. They showed us some of the survivors back in Los Angeles, just months after the crash, picking up their lives. If this side-backs thing was part of the plan for the final year all along, I think in retrospect we could have done without the flashforwards. Or rather, I think having flash forwards makes a lot of sense as a narrative device, and I actually predicted they should have them when I was watching season one, as they would make that part of the show more relevant to the mythos. But perhaps the flash forwards should have been used to show something different than the o6 leaving the island and then coming straight back. It just feels a bit redundant now. Like some of the devices they used in seasons two, three, four and five could have been condensed down to more like two seasons rather than four. The tailsection/freighters/Ajira are rehashes of the same plot. The side-backs and the flash forwards are variations on the same theme. Michael and Walt leaving the island then Michael coming back on the freighter got duplicated with the o6 leaving the island and coming back on Ajira. You don't need both. Then the time flashes to have started sooner etc. There's a lot of slack that feels like repetition in hindsight. Not that I mind particularly, but it does seem a bit odd. Not so much filler, as repetition of ideas.
-
I think it was in the hatch Ben starts going on about Jacob and what a great man he is. So that's good now, establishing the hatch and Jacob as being linked, which they are, by the season five cliff hangers, two events which seem to be connected in a way we don't yet understand - the hatch incident and the loophole that kills Jacob. And it's Jack that sets the incident in motion and it's Ben that kills Jacob. And it's Locke that's pulling strings. Those were the three who rivals in the hatch remember. So what we need to know is who inherited Eko's story line (Miles I bet though maybe Sayid) and what Desmond's role is. Meanwhile, Kate and Sawyer were the two that Jacob was keeping tabs on as children, so that's where their story lies. Sayid and Hurley seem to be Jacob ad libbing in response to events. Claire is important because of Aaron. Sun and Jin we don't know about. Ilana and Richard and probably Christian are the island history characters. Widmore is something of an unknown quantity. Frank, who knows.
-
Is there BECAUSE ASSES NEED SAVIN....and to chew bubble gum.
And he's ALL OUTTA HUBBA BUBBA! -
As opposed to what Dogen thought. Ben was getting some of his info, unbeknownst to him (Arguably) from MIB himself. Also I think by all accounts the monster IS a security system and DOES judge. SMokey is there against his will but is there partially because he has a job to do. Patrol the island and potentially fuck shit up. And that's not really at odds with what Jacob's own people do, in the sense that they are pretty rough too. Remember the purge?Another thing is we have no idea about the relationship between Ben and Dogen, if there was one, is still unclear.I hope they do reconcile Ben's apparently getting info from MIB and Jacob, but at the same time it may be just that MIB and Jacob are essentially doing the same job, MIB just doesn't want to do it.
-
As opposed to what Dogen thought. Ben was getting some of his info, unbeknownst to him (Arguably) from MIB himself. Also I think by all accounts the monster IS a security system and DOES judge. SMokey is there against his will but is there partially because he has a job to do. Patrol the island and potentially fuck shit up. And that's not really at odds with what Jacob's own people do, in the sense that they are pretty rough too. Remember the purge?Another thing is we have no idea about the relationship between Ben and Dogen, if there was one, is still unclear.I hope they do reconcile Ben's apparently getting info from MIB and Jacob, but at the same time it may be just that MIB and Jacob are essentially doing the same job, MIB just doesn't want to do it.
-
Well worth reading twice.
My guess is...MIB hadn't just grown tired of doing the job... I think he got fucked over by Jacob...really bad...and from that point on...all he ever wanted was Jacob dead...and OFF Craphole Island.
My guess? It will have to do with the love of a dame. MIB, against protocal, fell hard for one of the early 'Candidates' long, long ago. This was forbidden. Jacob had a hand in 'revoking' her candidacy, i.e., her life....MIB, in a fit of revenge, tried to retaliate against Jacob...but was unable to.
Because of 'The Rules'.
Thus...MIB was merely waiting...for hundreds of years, for the right set of candidates to find the island...so he could put his 'loophole' plan into place.
He hit the jackpot on Sept. 22nd, 2004. He may or not know that getting Ben to kill Jacob is only the beginning to getting the 'freedom' he so desires.
I'm thinking...MIB doesn't know that Jacob has several NEW tricks up his sleeve after taking that tumble into the fire. -
The question you raise has been answered here already. The general consensus seems to be that the name Dawson, where ever it is scrawled, does not refer to the young man with the powers, Vincent's owner Walter Lloyd, son of Susan Lloyd and Michael Dawson. There is a reason people do not think the name Dawson refers to Walt Lloyd. But I'm not going to tell you what that reason is. You're a detective, you figure it out.
-
Q: "Jack and Kate chose to go back to the island. Is that an option for Ben and Roger in the side-back world?"Oops, I did that flashbackwards.
-
This also begs the question about the sideways world...WHEN did Roger & lil Dr. Linus LEAVE the Dharma Initiative?
It would appear to me that they left of their own accord. Not because some atomic bomb forced them off of it. Side-Roger & Ben definitely got a second chance at a better existence in Side-2004...but what does that say about Jughead having anything at all to do with it?
What did Juliet mean when she told Miles "It worked"? -
He said he had leave he could take on the phone to penny. He ended up locked up for something else, what? We still do not know!
-
But I have a feeling Chuck Widmore was BEHIND whatever got him locked up.
The same way he got him locked up in that Swan hatch (prison) years later. -
And that is one double post I can take full credit for. Too often they arrive mysteriously and without warning. In this case, it was me and me alone wot made it 'appen.
-
So the monster turns into MIB (looking like Locke) and vice-versa. We know though that MIB was trapped in the cabin (I think) while the monster roamed around, if not exactly free, freer than being stuck in a cabin. SO - there is something about the relationship between these supposed two forms of one entity that isn't exactly one equals the other. Right? Because while MIB was in the cabin, the monster - allegedly MIB in a different form - was NOT in the cabin.
-
I think - and in a sense fear - that this will loom large as we approach the end. Speaking of which I think AICN should hire someone on a temporary basis between now and the end of the season to dedicate themselves to spoiler patrol.
-
The day referred to above as the day Desmond blew up the hatch... is a Saturday and I believe Helen said her and Locke were getting married in November...possibly significant?
-
For those who didn't see it, the good recapper "fishbiscuit" on the docartz blog a couple of weeks ago noted that in Jack's sideback house there were some big floppy sunhats on the sides of a mirror. And that there were also big sunhats in Juliet's house back when she was doing her book club thing in season 3. So odds are she's David's mother.
And yes the default assumption of most viewers (I thought) was that the "it worked" will play big towards the end. I don't see any other way to read that scene with Miles and Sawyer. -
Ha, I say that's tenuous. I don't mean I'll be surprised if Juliet is Jack's baby mama, I just don't find floppy hats to be compelling evidence.What's the scene between Miles and Sawyer, I don't remember. Anyway I'm just fearful because I would hate some happy ending where everything is bright and joyful because of that bomb going off.
-
On whether or not you view the hat thing as an intentional easter egg, a delibrate clue they planted, or not. You choose not to, but it looks like one to me. We'll find out soon enough I'm sure.
The scene between Miles and Sawyer was when Miles told Sawyer that Juliet said "it worked".
My fear of an ending is that they will make the alt timeline the final real timeline and thus make almost-pointless the struggles and redemptions people went through in the island timeline. I don't find it a happy ending if they don't remember what they went through and/or it didn't happen to them. -
If you look. When Jack is in David's room, on the wall behind him is a picture of a young David and his Mom.
You decide who it is... I know who I think it is. But I am not sayin. Cause last time I said I saw somethin that no one else saw. Royston Lodge took away my No-prize. (Wonster) .And I can't go through that pain again.
*sniff* -
As i typed to Hobo. And, say, where is Hobo. I miss Hobo. Previously. On LOST:
"""As the answers you are getting seem per-functionary allow me to overspew yet again.
Desmond's (DD) papers were stamped 'DESERTION'. What is not known are the circumstances behind the judgment..You can extrapolate them I think..working back from the given evidence.
*Desertion can have differing key elements:
1) an intent to remain away from your unit, organization, or place of duty PERMANENTLY which is distinct from Absence Without Leave (AWOL)
2) or an intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service..
I think Desmond is guilty of the 2nd element...
*Based on the length and location of Desmond's confinement, rule out the 1st element. Usually a boot buggin, unless especially grievous or chronic, would get a Summary dealing and an adios. Maybe an escalation to a District Court-Martial and minimal confinement..max out at 2 yrs..
OR-3 Lance Corporal Desmond David Hume was Dishonorably Discharged and that means five officers and a General Court-Martial.
*When Desmond is discharged, Charles Widmore goads Desmond with "because you are a coward" and "you just run away"
*Desmond told Kelvin he was kicked out of "that nice ole lady's army" for not following orders ...and..Penny's letter speaks of a "burden he must carry alone"
*Desmond's 6-months training in Explosive Ordinance Disposal and mentioning of just enough time to know enough to "blow yourself up" (true. its called the 200th hour) when confronted with the Kahana bomb..seems more than fortuitous.
--SO--
You have to feature that at some point OR-3 Hume was confronted with something that went boom..was given an order to deal with it ..and chose to do it not. bad things ensued. you got to think.
Just to be even more typety verbosey ..In the show Desmond is confined at Southway Garrison which is a stand in for MoD's one remaining prison the Military Corrective Training Centre at Colchester Garrison in Essex ..bout 90k Ne of London the barracks is also home to 16 Air Assault Brigade which is quite skilled in blowing the shite out of T-55's..but anyway its called the 'Glasshouse'
...I remem thinking it was amusing..and possibly revealing.. the exchange between Tom Friendly and Jack in Season 3.. When Tom said," See this house your livin in Jack.. (taps glass wall) ..why I don't I get you some stones.."
"Penance left undone during life converts to punishment in purgatory""" -
i was about to dig out my season 2 and 3 to back up my point. i think its the first part AWOL. thats what i was trying to point out to Maniaq. the writers give u the answers just not PRECISE answers. u can use ur imagination on the PRECISE part. thats why i think he went AWOL. he asked for leave to go see Faraday and was denied. so, he went anyway hence the AWOL. maybe, he had done ALOT of other "negative" or "disruptive" things before this particular incident, during his time of service, annnd this was the straw that broke the camels back for his military superiors.
-
On 30 Rock last... (you do know certain other shows are dropping LOST clues. right?)
WELL. Anyway, Kenneth lost his wallet..
He posts a flyer written in show font:
LOST
one wallet (box high lighted)
~one wallet is an anagram for 'ATONE WELL'
"The verb "atone", from the adverbial phrase "at one" (M.E. at oon), at first meant to reconcile, or make "at one"; from this it came to denote the action by which such reconciliation was effected, e.g. satisfaction for all offense or an injury."
!AND!
from Wiki: 'Wishing Well'
"A wishing well is a term from European folklore to describe wells where it was thought that any spoken wish would be granted. The idea that a wish would be granted came from the idea that water housed deities or had been placed there as a gift from the gods, since water was a source of life and often a scarce commodity."
"The Germanic and Celtic peoples considered springs and wells sacred places....Water was seen to have healing powers and therefore wells became popular with many people drinking, bathing or just simply wishing over it. People believe that the guardians or dwellers of the well would grant them their wish if they paid a price...This may be a left over from ancient mythology such as Mímir's Well from Nordic myths, also known as the ¨Well of Wisdom¨, a Well that could grant you infinite wisdom provided you sacrificed something you held dear. Odin was asked to sacrifice his right eye which he threw into the well to receive not only the wisdom of seeing the future but the understanding of why things must be. Mímir is the Nordic god of wisdom, and his well sits at the roots of Yggdrasil, the World Tree which draws its water from the well"
And so Kate took refuge from the smoke monster 3, Threee times in that funky lookin tree. 'Yggdrasil'? And you just know now the 'Well' is going to show up as relevant again. Way back when. Gods, literally.. This awesome blessed wonderful show is a religious ratatouille, they are offering and overlaying just about every possible redemption mythology Man has ever known. Sweet.
"...we all deserve a second chance" -
my bad...
-
i loved when jenna told the ending to Lost to the writers. the LOOK on their faces and reactions were PRICELESS!!!
-
in case this has been missed. I think the last episode CONFIRMED that the flash sideways occur because of something that happens at the end of this season and therefore are a sort of epilogue to the series. Otherwise, why does Ben care so much about Alex? If its just that she's a typical student signifying his devotion to teaching then thats just lame. It must be something more. He MUST have knowledge of his previous life (and hers) and be trying to give her a better future? Right? Its weird because the LOST detractors always cite Darlton's habit of 'writing around' the obvious flaws in their story, not that I'm agreeing, but with this episode the 'point' of the ALTtimeline really effects how much you enjoy it. If the flash sideways are a new timeline created after the events of season 6, and Smokie does give everyone (or just a few of them) 'whatever they want' as he promised Sayid, then that makes sense with what we've seen. Jack has a family, Kate realises she's not a completely hopless human being, Sayid gets to see Nadia again, Locke is at peace and Ben gets Alex back. Makes sense.
But if these things are simply a result of the bomb, or something else unrelated to the series finale then suddenly the last few eps become less enjoyable. Why do Artz, Locke, Ben and Alex all end up at the same school? Just coincidence? Don't get me wrong, I'm still enjoying the season but this question needs to be answered soon (I hope it will).
Other thing...Didn't Richard say "I saw them all die" referring to Jack, Jin, Hurley and Kate on the Dharma photos? You'd think he might have mentioned that when he saw Jack... -
they officially "got all excited" that Julie Bowen is shooting in Hawaii and dropped some major hints...
about the cabin, Ross - I've been turning that one around in my head too and I cannot quite make sense of it, either
my current theory is that is was JACOB in the cabin - and the ash ring was to keep MIB out, as opposed to in... and he really didn't appear to Ben ever but really did appear to Locke... and then he abandoned the cabin in 2004 - and nobody has lived there in the three years since....
three years is kinda a long time, as per Ilana's observation, no?
I'm not entirely happy with this theory but it seems to make the most sense, I think? -
Flash Sideways = Losts Epilogue. They remind me of an old Batman the Animated Series episode where the Mad Hattercaptured Batman and hooked him up to a device where he was in a perfect dreamworld where his Parents hadn't died and he never became Batman. He eventually had to figure out it was all a dream and choose to break free by jumping off a clock tower.
Reguardless of weither my wacky theory is correct or not (probably not) I doubt the epilogue stuff. -
just because she might be in a episode doesnt mean she's jacks wife/mom to david. she may not even have been in that accident to even meet jack in the first place.
-
i dont see it being THAT obvious u know...
-
what point are you trying to make to me about what exactly?
Desmond? I never weighed in on that one...?
The Wid being a candidate?
let's put aside the fact his name hasn't yet made an appearance on either list for a moment - like I keep saying, we haven't seen the entire list yet..
dya remember The Purge?
pretty much Genocide right there, yeah?
remember who was in charge of the Others at that point - who ordered it?
"they come, they fight, they corrupt and destroy..."
at the risk of contradicting you, yes I DO believe they had a leader who was NOT a "candidate" - and that's why they were looking around for a better leader..
lemme join another couple dots here - Richard being so pleased that Ben saw his dead mother - Ben who eventually kicks The Wid off the island...
coincidence?? -
sayid is a candidate- was good now looks like he's "bad" now. i mean, do u actually need a character on the show stating "this means this"- "that means that"? widmore was the leader and PROTECTOR of the island at one time. he was good if u remember the episode he saw little ben. he was young and seemed very compassionate towards little ben. a far cry from his current disposition. he simply chose to use the island for selfish purposes so...they kicked him off the island. he was a candidate.
-
ben cant kill widmore....coincidence??
-
K-I-S-S-I-N-G!
Just sayin...Sideways world....flippity floppity. Not likely Sarah n Jacky Boy were bumpin uglies. -
Never. Avoid them like the plague.
-
if a hundred intelligent educated and dedicated Lost fans post random guesses, theories, quips, japes and surmises about how they think Lost might possibly end... then odds are at least a couple of those ideas will be close enough to wind up being spoilers.Oh, and Jin died when the Freighter exploded, Jacob was always Christian's ghost, and the event that sinks the island causes a "reset" that creates a reality in which Jacob and MIB never existed and never touched or influenced out characters. Also, Rose and Bernard are Adam & Eve but Vincent is NOT in Aaron's cradle.And in a newly created third reality, Steve and Tracy become the new Jacob and WIB (woman in black). Gotta keep it fresh.
-
Some of you are saying weird things like "The Candidates can't be killed" or "The Candidates can't kill each other"? I don't recall the Show saying that. What the Show said is that the Candidates can't opt out by killing THEMSELVES. Michael couldn't. Locke was interrupted by Ben. Libby stopped Hurley from walking off the cliff. Jack didn't jump off the bridge, and the dynamite didn't go off etc etc. Being a Candidate doesn't make you Immortal or Off Limits. A lot of those crossed out names were CANDIDATES KILLED BY OTHER CANDIDATES. Ben certainly killed Locke, right? Aren't some of the other names people we've seen be killed by the current Candidates?I think you guys are confusing two seperate issues. Ben and Widmore's "Rules" and The Boy who looked like Jacob telling the Locke-ness Monster "You Can't Kill Him."First of all, we have no evidence thus far that Widmore was EVER a Candidate.His name isn't on the Cave Wall or in the Lighthouse. Some of you are assuming he MUST have been, or he wouldn't have been able to lead the Others. But the two things have nothing to do with each other!Dogen didn't resign his leadership of the Temple Others because a bunch of Candidates showed up. And he didn't even bother to protect them or keep track of them. Sawyer left. Jin went with Kate. Jack and Hurley snuck out. And Dogen tried to get Jack to kill Sayid (or have Sayid kill himself?) with the poison, which would seem to contradict ALL of your theories in one fell swoop!I think Widmore's machinations make more sense if he WASN'T a Candidate and he wants control of the Island anyway. How can he "Kill every Living Thing on the Island" if Six of those things are Candidates? And why would you assume the "Rules" Ben referred to, are Candidate Rules? Was Alex a Candidate? Is Penny?
-
I can live with other ppl having their own theories that don't agree or even contradict my own-
i'm pretty sure my own theories have turned out to be wrong on occasion and i'm not exactly head-over-heals in love with them...
we'll see how it turns out - i actually PREFER being surprised with this show, as opposed to having my theories confirmed and basically knowing how it was gonna go, all along... -
me too. i like being surprised also. we shall see brotha...
-
ur confused with alpert being immortal and not being able to kill himself. candidates killed each other?? nope who? like i said-- locke was killed OFF-ISLAND. jack and such not dying or killing themselves off-island is because they are,if u will, PRIME candidates ie the only ones actually assigned a NUMBER. the rules pertain to being on-island. the boy actually said "you know the rules--you cant kill him". so, they do have something to do with each other. dogen wasnt a candidate-- he very simply said- "jacob offered me a JOB"- that was protecting the temple from MIB. NO CONTRADICTION BROTHA...Alex and Penny were "children" of candidates and conceived OFF-ISLAND like walt. widmore looks to be working for MIB and MIB wants "every living thing" dead on the island so that would be helping him. maybe, widmore can FINALLY HAVE the island if he helps MIB destroy everything??
-
Wasn't MIB....that's for sure. Could Ilana be being mislead herself? UnLocke said...in response to being told he wanted every living thing dead on the island with...."No...Just the ones that don't listen".
Could he be tellin the truth there? -
to Sawyer
-
And here is a question.. In the epi 'The Other Woman' ...When Harper appears to Juliet ..tells her, and Jack, to take their guns and go and stop Faraday and Charlotte..at the Flame..
Was that MiB? And if it was MiB ..given what we know about his nature.. Wouldn't that mean MiB did NOT want Faraday and Charlotte to render the gas inert? And just who called that play anyway? Rendering the Gas inert..Widmore? Eloise? Penny? Was it an audible by Faraday?
And why did Juliet tell Sawyer and Sayid, "if you knew where I was from ..you'd kill me"?
And why was Sawyer wearing size 12 shoes at his Parents funeral?
And why did Ms Klugh say "We can't do that, Michael"?
Too many questions! I am gonna switch sides.
I now hate LOST.
hmmmpf. Ok. that passed. I lurv this show. -
also, im watchin AMC...why 'o why did cal naughton jr. switch sides and become the lawman for biil the butcher?? i always thought...once a DEAD RABBIIT ALWAYS A DEAD RABBIT!!!
-
Mar 13, 2010 11:40:33 PM CST
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
by the_man_from_rio
that is all.
-
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllt !!!!!!!
-
SHIT!!!
-
Yeah....Ricardo said it...and he's been running around like a skeered bunny the past 3 episodes with his head up his ass. Now his faith in Jacob is gone...and he's suicidal.
Not a guy who sounds like he's got any better handle of WTF is going on than our Losties.
Is it possible Jacob NEEDS Alpert to believe that? -
as is ALL THINGS LOST!!!!
-
"Atreus and his twin brother Thyestes were exiled by their father for murdering their half-brother Chrysippus in their desire for the throne of Olympia."
..but..
"Castor and Pollux...twins who shared the same mother but had different fathers which meant that Pollux was immortal and Castor was mortal. When Castor died, Pollux asked Zeus to let him share his own immortality with his twin to keep them together and they were transformed into the Gemini constellation. The pair were regarded as the patrons of sailors, to whom they appeared as St. Elmo's fire."
So many murderous twins and so little time to figure which..Twins.
DeVito is Tall..hmmpf. Oh, and Jay?
Pow! Pow!
http://tinyurl.com/c2l6me -
When I complain that people are more interested in expressing their own theories than discussing what the Show itself is explicitly SHOWING us and TELLING us, these are the kind of things I'm referring to.Ilana specifically said: THERE ARE ONLY SIX CANDIDATES LEFT. You may dearly wish that Charles Widmore is one of them, or that he used to be one of them, but the Show itself has given you no evidence to base that theory on. He's not among the names that have been revealed to us. He has no number assigned to him. You say the final Six are "PRIME candidates ie the only ones actually assigned a NUMBER"? WTF? Did you not see the same Cave and Lighthouse the rest of us saw? Whole lotta Names and Numbers. No Charles Widmore. And if you're assuming the numbers assigned to our final Six have some special significance because they keep showing up in other contexts, you may be right, but the show itself has never said that. It hasn't even implied it.Richard Alpert ISN'T immortal. Not aging and never dying are too different things. Richard said that once you've been TOUCHED by Jacob that you CANNOT take your own life but you CAN be killed by Someone Else. And he wasn't just referring to HIMSELF. He was referring to the CANDIDATES!How do we KNOW this? Because as the Audience we've seen each of them be TOUCHED by Jacob. Richard appears NOT to know who the Candidates are. Dogen didn't know until he received Jacob's message. Ilana and the MIB seem to know, but even they seem unsure whether the KWON refers to Jin or Sun. We saw Jacob touch BOTH of them. If you remove Locke from the equation because he's DEAD and Sayid because he's UNDEAD, there are only FOUR other OBVIOUS Candidates. The Ones we SAW Jacob TOUCH: Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hurley. Add the Kwons and there's your SIX.I base MY theory purely on what the Show Itself has SHOWN us and TOLD us. Not any desire to have Charles Widmore or Desmond or Walt or Miles or Frank or Ilana herself be the SUPER SECRET BONUS CANDIDATE. If I'm wrong, fine. But until the Show Itself SHOWS or TELLS me I'm wrong, my theory is more grounded in the Show than in my own desires or imagination.And the Characters themselves are beginning to realize what it means to be a Candidate. That was the PURPOSE of the Dynamite Scene in the Black Rock. Jack renewed Richard's faith in Jacob's plan. Richard no longer wants to kill himself and Jack now realizes that he CAN'T kill himself. Because he's a CANDIDATE.But the Candidates CAN be Killed by Someone Else. Especially ANOTHER CANDIDATE. Which is why the MIB wants to turn them against each other, and why Ilana is trying to unite and protect them.When you say "the rules pertain to being on-island" WHAT are you basing that on? Certainly not the Show Itself. Faraday,Carlyle,Burke,Pace,and Dawson were all NAMED as CANDIDATES. All of them DIED on the Island or in close proximity to it. Those are just the most obvious ones.When you say "candidates killed each other?? nope who?" you need to either READ the NAMES again or WATCH the Show for the past FIVE YEARS. Pickett killed by Burke. Friendly killed by Sawyer. Pryce run over by Hugo. Not to mention all the Named members of Rousseau's team that were killed by Rousseau herself. If these Candidates could be killed by other Candidates, than so could the Final Six. And any of them can be killed by someone who's NOT a Candidate, like your pal Charles Widmore.NONE of Them are SAFE. Off the Island or On It.
-
and a idiot. wow MY post makes no sense??? guess ur watching something on SYFY. i watch Lost brotha...
-
its late here in NC. and idiot (sorry) posts like urs need alot of attention to detail lol. i will debunk it when i get up brotha...
-
Your above post confused me. Because it was the first thing I've ever read here with 2517th's number on the top that made sense. I had to look again to realize that it was addressed to him, not written by him.This is a very minor point, but is everyone here familiar with the concept that typing words in ALLCAPs is the internet equivalent of screaming? I realize that in some forums such as this there is no way to underline or use italics and the secret to bold type is a well guarded secret. I get that sometimes you need to capitalize a word to place the proper stress and emphasis on a point. However, when you do it several times in nearly every sentence of your post, It's makes it bothersome to read I keep wondering "Why are you shouting?" Plus, it makes your post look like one of 2517rds, which adds to the confusion.I agree with your main point; people get so rapt up in their own hypothoseizures they lose track of what is on the show.When I posted my admittedly wacky, tongue in cheek semi-serious goof about Jin having died in the Freighter explosion, even I dismissed it as "this can't be right". I felt certain that someone was going to pop in a DVD and cite chapter and verse and quote one scene from one episode in which post-freighter-blow-up Jin said something to any character than we know only he could know. Some word or deed beyond obsessing over finding his wife to conclusively prove that he was Jin and not an Island Djinn convincingly imitating him. So far all I have is someone saying that not every single frame caught in a screen-cap is canon. Unfortunately, the fact that Jin was clearly not on the deck of the freighter right before it exploded was the most compelling evidence to prove that he might not be dead. Remove that from the equation and we're back to having to accept what they wanted us to think: that Jin died. One entire season plus a third of keeping Jin and Sun apart, keeping Jin away from the only person on the island who would be able to tell if he was an imposter. And "they wouldn't do that" is not a persuasive argument when it's exactly what they did do with DeadLocke and NonLocke. I agree with C4 - what is on the show is what counts. And I'm sure there must be proof on the show that Jin is really Jin and not Djinn or BoyInWhite (BIW) some other imposter entity. Still waiting for someone to cite that proof. Confident someone here will find something. Hopefully without having to yell about it.
-
in itself makes no sense. dude, all those names WERE CROSSED OUT! no longer candidates!! KILLED ON-ISLAND!! also daniels team... CLAIMED by MIB. widmore OFF-ISLAND!! u notice the people that were not CROSSED OFF?? the PRIME CANDIDATES!! BTW-- not aging and not dying lends credence to being somewhat IMMORTAL....
-
tried being friends but, oh well. LOVE ur "theories" too...
-
AGAIN... damn thats so OFFENSIVE i guess...some of u "intraweb" peeps are really out there...didnt know MAKING ACTUAL SENSE would confuse VIKKI... i know now and OFF TO BED....
-
If Jin were dead and replaced by an Imposter/Entity, why would be still be trying to find Sun?Well, Kwon is a candidate, but no one seems to know if Sun, Jin or Yi Jeon is the candidate. If Jin is a candidate he cannot commit suicide. But he can still die. Being abandoned to jump from the deck of a freighter moments before it explodes hardly counts as suicide. What if Jin - killed by being torn or crushed by the explosion or drowned, was replaced by an Island imposter entity (with the ability to impersonate the dead which we associate with MIB, but he ability to move off the island that we associate with Jacob, implying that it is a third Power with both abilities). Why would that creature be so obsessed with finding Sun? Well, if she's a candidate, maybe it wants to kill her.
-
I think it was already said, but lemme say it again - the big problem with the idea that the guy we saw wash up on the beach, clinging to a piece of freighter, nearly dead, watch Rousseau's team become "infected" and nearly get taken out by Rousseau herself, give John Locke his wedding ring to give to Sun as proof he's still alive, join the Dharma initiative and systematically search the island grid by grid (except for that grid with the lighthouse on it, obviously), watch Sayid get "infected", LEAVE the Temple still in search of Sun, get shot in the leg, hook up with "infected" Claire and meet "her friend" who's not Locke - the problem with that guy NOT being Jin is WHO THE FUCK IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE EXACTLY??
yet another new character? the boy? so when the boy appeared to MIB, Jin disappeared in front of the eyes of the people he was with? or was it MIB, who was in two places at once when he met HIMSELF at Claire's hideout?
the guy who looked exactly like Locke but wasn't didn't wash up on the shore nearly dead - he just strolled up to the beach, fighting fit... and he never really acted like Locke, even though it was subtle - Jin's pretty much been the same Jin, except for his improved English...
it would be a total mindfuck if it turned out to be true and, like I said, I've been wrong before, but I think it would be a touch contrived and even lazy to have him turn out to be some new character - and I can't think of any good reason WHY they would do it, either? -
...somehow exactly replicate the Kwon wedding ring? Even well enough to fool Sun?I haven't seen any indication that just a piece of the Imposter/Entity has any kind of reality unto itself. I mean, can the LochAlike take off his shoe and hand it over to someone else? Can that person then take it off the Island and even through time itself? That'd be quite the stretch methinks, even for a show as wacky as LOST
-
Thanks for the bit of sense.
You just have to watch that, because you disagree with Jay, you don't get labelled as Trolls.
Its very unfortunate that somebody who hasn't even been on the Lost talk backs from the beginning and who obviously prefers their theories over facts will dismiss sensible posters as idiots - what can you do though.
In summary though I would just ignore him - when he's not just simpering up to Rizzo - "ooh Rizz, what do you think about this ? Ooh Rizz you're so right, Brotha !" he just reacts with aggression to those he disagrees with. Very few sensible posts just tons and tons of psycopathic antisocial nonsense.
-
ive been reading from the beginning duuuuude. ive read idiot posts for 5 and almost half seasons now. i mean, guys like u 3 must need Angela Lansbury to come on before the end credits to explain the episodes right?? guess too much CSI and Matlock can rot ur brains. its called DEDUCTIVE REASONING. like i said, thats what makes Lost so cool-- it makes u use ALL of ur brain. i know, i know, thats alot to ask of u 3 but, i'll look over it lol. 'ol widdy could have a conversation with MIB next episode and say "i never was a candidate" or something-- u never know thats just Lost. BUT, up till now, all "clues" are pointing to him being one yeeesshhh. ill now channel my inner Knowles and Hulk Hogan and....THAT SAID mr. 2Legged-nonidiot... is it ur turn to give LostBoy a reach around or is it Jaka's....BROTHA???
-
hope he doesnt get mad....sob...PLEASE FORGIVE ME !!!!
-
if Rizz doesnt come back to this tb... ur not gonna tell on me in NEXT weeks talkback....RIGHT??? please please please dont tell on me!!! man, im getting the wire hangers tonight FOR SURE NOW......
-
Particularly like your lame "I've read idiot posts...". You know and I know that you are a real johnny come lately who sucks up to the hardcore fans.
God help the likes of Rizzo who has been around for a while and then has to come on here and put up with your sycophantic stalking.
I have to confess to being a fact finder for the top secret shadowy group; The Calumni.
This organisation gathers information from all over the internet and makes judgements based on it. Its members range from folk in democracies to folk in dictatorships. Rich folk to poor folk. The scientific elite to the lowest criminal. All their thoughts are pulled together to form a judgement on key trends in society.
As a matter of interest I sent through Jays postings on AICN for the last 6 months and got a response back saying that the Calumni had judged Jay to be the biggest loser on the internet.
There were a couple of quotes included :
Hector Collidoscope a notorious Brazilian serial killer commented “ What ? I am in jail and dis freak is free to roam the streets – Aye Caramba!!”
Professor Brian Fitzpenis ( Currently planning the Totally Huge Hadron Collider ) commented – “At either a sub-molecular, macro-quantum or True Math level this chap has all the appearances of being perhaps the biggest douche on the internet – I would need further evidence to ratify this theory but can at least be confident that Jay is one of the worlds biggest twats.”
So there you have it – The Calumni has spoken
-
Thats two consecutive posts by you about Rizzo - you can see why thats a bit worrying, can't you ?
-
Maniaq on the dance floor and the Umpirestrokesamberlynnbach andmoredeathkity, thank you for actually addressing the issue.Manny, you present a detailed breakdown of what Jin's been up to. I might add "Lied to Claire because he didn't want her to hit him with an axe" - something a shape shifter might not bother with. If I were trying to argue this I might suggest something dishnest about someone allegedly "searching the island grid by grid" but never spotting the temple, the lighthouse or the Scales cave - though that cave would take a really detailed search to find... if not for those ladders bolted to the cliff, which are kinda attention getting.But then I've said all along "this can't be real, this can't be happening". I didn;t keep ringing it up to try to sell the idea, I'm just enough of an attention swine that i wanted someone to refute it. Manny did that well, Although Kitty did provide motive (wanting to kill Sun for whatever reason), and Ump nailed it with the ring. Unless a shifter took the ring from Dead Jin before turning up on the beach, there's no evidence that a shifter (and so far NonLocke/MIB is the only character we know to have shape-shifting superpowers, in spite of the semi-popularity of the idea that Jacob might be a White Smoke Monster), an "break off a piece of itself" which then exists on its own. Unless someone else argues for the idea, I'll drop it as empirically refuted now. But I appreciate that you can actually address an unpopular or even admittedly silly idea and refute it with intelligent arguments and evidence rather than the only tool in the trolls arsenal, name calling.Hey Mac, see what I did there: referred to the tools in the trolls arsenal, thus subliminally embedding the words tool and arse in the sentence so the troll in question will feel even more insulted without quite understanding why.Freakie, giant bonus points for humor, a weapon name-callers can't even begin to fathom. Also, extra points for getting through a post that large and the only thing in allcaps was the AICN acronym. Still, another of the things that confused me about the Cymbalta4 message with the lostboy2517 shout-out in the topic line was WHY was he actually trying to talk sense to him? As Rocky told Bullwinkle, that trick never works.Rule one of troll-fight club; don't talk to trolls. Rule two of troll fight club; don't talk about trolls. Rule 34 of trool fight club: trolls who name call, insult, can't form a sensible argument of their own, call on bullies for help and deny being trolls: = trolls.
-
I'm afraid you were a bit naughty there in using "worlds biggest twat" as a pejoritive insult.Vajayjay, like prang - and like condoms - come in a variety of sizes. The Kama Sutra of Vatsuyana described it as the conundrum of the Hare Lingham'd man and the Elephant Yoni'd woman. All stereotypes about our friends in the Asian community and the Negro Leagues aside, the procreative participles of both engenders vary widely in size; both in length, depth, girth receptivity and elasticity.There is the matter of statistics. The American male average is said to be 5.5. Since pornhounds know or believe that eleven inches is possible with out Swedish vacuum enhancement, that implies that 0" is the opposite option.However, over 99% of all humans are born with genitals.Which means when you insult the poomba you have to bare in mind the ancient Chinese proverb: "Man who complains about the size of huge 'see you next Tuesday' is usually a little prick."
-
...It wasn't me that said it ...it was the worlds foremost top secret information analysis organisation.
And I don't know about little - I'd accept "slightly below average" -
I don't always waste a post just to correct a typo but "Dishnest", aside from being fun to say and a possible name for an Indian character, is pretty unintelligible.Dishnest = dishonest.Can't blame AICN just because I lack a "too lazy to proof read" button.
-
Thanx for clarifying that butter. But you can see that the Professor is overcompensating for his own shortcomings by building a "totally huge" anything. And you can see why it is; Fitzpenis is obviously a girls name.2LF, nothing wrong with being under a statesticle average: half of everybody is; that's how averages work.You ever notice how over the last few decades the so-called Adult entertainment magazines have altered their data, reporting that the American average has been reported, at various times, as 6.5, 6, 5.5 and, most recently 5.Either we're getting shorter, we're getting fatter or Men's Entertainment magazines are lying to make more of their audience feel good about themselves. I think it's 2 and 3.TMI: thanx to a combination of diabetes, morbid obesity, clinical depression, surgical complications and age, my Erectile has been Dysfunctional for about eight or nine years now. And I can't take little blue pills because there's a hole in my heart that goes all the way to China. Also, I'm so fat that mine is an internal organ now. But hey, thanx to the perspiration, mine is in a moist hole all the time now, so I win. (So if any trolls want to tell me to go perpetrate an act of coitus upon myself, been there, do that all the time. Doo do doot da doo, I'm lovin' it.
-
just because u can't "fathom" my expert analysis doesnt mean me am stoopid. i hear that instead of the "pop up" episode next week they're gonna have Ms. Lansbury explain it to 3 slowly lol...and now im a troll? ah the irony...the irony...
-
the 2 Rizzo posts were SARCASM dipshit...big brain ya got there buddy...ANYWAY...back to Lost brotha's...
-
yeesshhh. i take all the bad things i said. poor fella's all u have is this TB for talking to other people. TMI...TMI...lol
-
Sorry but you aren't wriggling off the hook just yet chum
The problem we have my friend is that you have one standard insult that you use all the time around how much cleverer than other posters you are.
Keeping up with Lost doesn’t make you intelligent chum..its just a TV programme.
Key questions to ask yourself would be:
In a discussion can I avoid just lashing out with the same infantile insults all the time.
If I am as intelligent as I think I am would I be spending my time insulting others on a talkback about something as ephemeral as a TV show.
If I am as intelligent as I think I am why would I try and lie to people and convince them that I have been involved in these talkbacks for 5 and a half seasons when I have been posting for just over a year.
So the basics are that you are a Fucking liar who thinks he is cleverer than others. That makes you a border-line psychopath my friend and a loser.
-
Explain to all us idiots how you have been reading these talk-backs for 5 and a half years and posting for 1.
Make it realistic now otherwise folk will be tempted to think that you are a dirty stinking liar. -
lying about how long you have been involved in a talk-back about a tv programme to make yourself look clever....how much of a loser do you have to be.
Incredible and Sad -
i have been reading since season 1. i never posted because i just enjoyed reading other peoples thoughts. however infuriating they were lol. i posted last season too. this year, since it was the last, i figured "what the hell" might as well put my 2 cents in more than last year. i know u 3 are REALLY appreciating it lol. so u TELL me--based on the episodes up till now-- how by "opinions" not valid?? u dont like me/i dont like u but, that doesnt mean my theories are not well thought out and dont stand up brotha...
-
when the situation calls for it...
-
On the basis that you have actually engaged in reasonable discussion for once I am quite happy to take your word for it.
I don't consider your opinions as invalid although there has to be care taken with what Lost itself seems to be saying about candidates versus what folk would like. My issue isn't so much about your opinions but how you react to others opinions- way too defensive and unaccepting of views that don't fit your own.
Chill Brotha !
-
thats always good. i just get mad when people get answers and, since it doesnt jive with them, dismiss them. then their argument is...we didnt actually SEE it happen or the characters didnt actually SAY that...know what i mean? the writers give u like 80% of the answers and the other 20% u can use ur imagination. for example-- the overwhelming evidence (80%) leans towards Widmore being a current/former candidate. now, the writers have left some gaps (20%) for YOU to see it different. if YOU prefer to say- "he might NOT be candidate and never WAS"...then thats cool for YOU. but, like i said, 80% of the evidence (we have SO FAR) points to him being one. hell, next episode he might come out and point blank say-- "i was never a candidate Jack" lol...
-
Man I come back after a day to find THIS??? Gentlemen!
-
I'm on a horse!
-
and hes on a horse!! mmmmmm old spice....
-
look back at my hand...it now has a clam in it...now back to me... that commercial is fucking wierd and hilarious...
-
lemme jus state for the record I haven't been posting here since the beginning
in fact, I've only been posting here for a few days, not even a week
sure I've posted on OTHER talkbacks for years, well over a decade now, but I'm pretty sure I didn't post on any Lost talkbacks (let along read them) for a good year or so, MAYBE the first season finale at best
I guess my opinions don't count, huh? -
Kate and Old Spice guy on Kate's black horse.
Kate's got a gun pointed at him saying, "You've got the wrong horse, pal."
I'll post it on Room 23 after I scan it tomorrow.
And that's toughGAYrizzo to you pal! -
huge finale spoilers are out there as of today, so tread carefully
-
300 tix in 3 days. 200 went from 12PM-3PM Friday afternoon. Holy Shit.
-
ill check it out. is PA's new artwork up yet? Maniaq... its all cool brotha...i NOW understand ur posts lol! my bad...thought u was here since the beginning. didnt mean to come across as a dickweed. ur opinion counts brotha...
-
when I say I haven't posted on any Lost talkbacks for a year, I mean the FIRST year that it came out
I don't think I participated until S2, tho I could be wrong about that - otherwise I've been regularly banging my own drum on here every chance I got... -
now i guess im a dickweed again too u lol? and here i thought i was going to get along with u brotha lol...
-
if your refering to the Lost meet-up artwork, then thats Rizzo's. I do all of the stuff on the Muses page. Just wanting to give Rizzo proper credit.
-
Garauntee you this Tuesday's new LOST talkback will be a spoilertastic cess pool. I will definitely be staying away until after the episode airs...and maybe even afterward if the spoiler posts are still being disscussed ad nauseum.
It was only a matter of time before some heavy secrets got out of the bag. Was hopin it would have taken a lil longer. Oh, well. -
or anyone else in here. I just think we could spend our time more productively discussing and analyzing the Show Itself.Keeping up with the Show Itself is its Own Reward. Trying to Stay Three Steps Ahead of It is Pointless. It's not a Make Your Own Adventure where you get to come up with your own Ending or some Mad Libs thing where you plug in your own words and theories and ignore anything that contradicts them.I don't know or care whether Charles Widmore used to be a Candidate. He could still be one for all I know. I just think his whole arc makes more sense if he was NEVER a Candidate. And despite jay's 80% evidence theory the Show Itself would seem to bear that out. He's not on the Cave Wall and he's not on the Lighthouse List either.Wouldn't you be pissed if you WEREN'T on that List and Ben Linus WAS? And Jacob gives the Island and the Others to Ben, and kicks you off? I'd be looking for Payback too. FUCK YOU AND YOUR RULES! If I Can't Have It,Nobody Can! That just makes more sense to me as a character motivation than kicking him off because he knocked up Penny's mother. Or having Ben say "You stole Fizzy Lifting Drinks! You Lose! Good Day Sir!"I don't know if I'm right and I won't care if I'm wrong. I'm not writing the show. They are. If I was writing it Mr. Eko would still be there and Hugo would be getting some Libby lovin. And Hell, I'm a Browncoat, so maybe Kate's cop ex is a Candidate too, because Nathan
Fillion is perfect for every role right?You Watch the Show you Have. Not the Show you Wish you Had. -
test
-
Or its new firefox. Lost another post
-
thats pretty funny cymabal. ok ok..no beef... i still think my 80/20 is a good rule to go by. we'll just be more friendlier in our "discussions" lol. wow...im getting along with with 2Legged AND cymbal...cool...now if onlu that beeottchh Vikki can come around lol...oh did i mention im a NAZI and hate JEWS???? ZING!!! ...what to soon???
-
.....TUMBLEWEED......
-
Mar 15, 2010 1:33:42 AM CDT
ummm ok...tough crowd...errr OK...whats the deal with CANCER???
by jay2517
at least u have a good DEDUCTIBLE...er...****crickets****ok umm HEY....i read this SPOILER on DarkUFO how the show ends and the island is REALLY a [ BLAM! ]....(shotgun blast from BRODY)....
-
http://tinyurl.com/yfwlq4g
-
Mar 15, 2010 4:54:38 AM CDT
Im betting Widmore has a few bargaining chips on that sub of his
by themanwhocan
Those chip are Yi Jeon, Aaron, Clementine and possibly Waaaaaaaaaaaaaalt . Snatched from there guardians while their parents were of gallivanting on the island. It’s not beneath Charlie boy to use children, as negotiating tools don’t forget.
Place your bets!!
-
Do these kids serve a purpose after all?
-
http://tinyurl.com/yhkthkb
-
What I don't get: if jack (and presumably other 815ers) couldn't be killed b/c they haven't fulfilled their purpose on the Island, why did Jacob find it necessary to get him away from the "bad people" coming to the Temple? Wouldn't Jack have survived anyway? And, just how do we know it wasn't Richard's stil-lingering purpose that kept the dynamite from igniting?
-
Keep Cindy occupied. But, then what's Cindy's purpose? To watch over Zach & Emma? That would make it an never-ending loop or responsibility.....much like the continuous loop the Island events seem to be on. Hmmmmmmm.....
-
I look forward to digesting it in more detail later. Stuff like this is one of the things I love about LOST.
-
should have been "never-ending loop OF..." not "or" still, FUCK PROOFREADING
-
Zach and Emma were children traveling in the tail section of Flight 815. Presumably their parents or guardians died in the crash. they were taken by The Others. The Others later picked Cindy the flight attendant off from the tall end of the march to the beach camp. Cindy was given the job of looking after the children, as seen on Bear Cage Island, and three years later at The Temple she was still doing that.John Locke was a man in a wheel chair who had to be "loaded" onto the plane before the other passengers boarded. when the plane crashed he survived, woke up on the beach and discovered that he could wiggle his toes, move his feet, bend his legs and get up and stand and walk. The 'other' miracle was that of the 48 people who lived through that plane crash, none of them were anyone who would have known that John Locke was not supposed to be able to walk.The only person who survived that crash who wold have known Locke was not supposed to be walking around was Cindy, who was on the plane when he was brought on board. But she was far away, on the Other island, watching The Children. So the function of Z & E was to keep C from blowing JL's secret.Not the answer you wanted, but all I got.And one of the great unanswered mysteries dating all the way back to the pilot episode: How did the Island heal John Locke's spine and let him walk? Um, the crash snapped his vertebrae back into place? Err, it was a psychological problem all along? Island Magic? Special healing properties? Okay, it cured Rose's cancer, so lets go with special healing properties. What are the Island's special properties? Ummm... pockets of strange electromagnetic energy? Okay, and electromagnetism heals cancer and fixes useless legs how exactly? Well, uh, simple, it's all about.. hey, look over there. a Smoke Monster.Okay, they've given us what's the smoke monster and more clues abut what are the numbers. What is the Islands Special Healing Properties?
-
The fuse didn't go out because they can't be killed, it went out because they can't kill themselves. If Hurley had lit the fuse instead of Jack or Richard and then booked it out of there I reckon the dynamite would have exploded.
-
I see what you're saying, but, strictly adressing the no-suicide rule, wouldn't the dynamite still have exploded, (potentially) killing Alpert, but leaving Jack alive? Similar to Michael trying to kill himself off-Island in Season 4. It's all in the way the writers wanted the scene to play out and give us only the clues they want to give us, so I don't think nebulous things like the "no-suicide rule" can be interpreted too strictly, but I feel like we've seen enough instances where castaways have survive things they shouldn't. The dynamite fuse going out was kind of a cheat. But, I'll argue against myself by pointing out that when Michael tried to shoot himself, the gun wouldn't fire, which is similar to the fuse going out on the dynamite. I'll counter my counter-argument by pointing out that Richard willingly staying in the BR when he believed the dynamite explosion would kill him is pretty much the same as suicide, which in theory would not permit him to die.
-
a gust of wind blows a tumbleweed through the desolate street of the "ghostown" TB.
-
the abandoned DHARMA van careens by, a blue blur on an empty green hill.
-
the black smoke hurls itself through the jungle, a dense vapor of chitters and chirps.
-
LO LO LO LO O O O.....
-
On a horse: http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/
-
I don't care so much about who Zach and Emma are, as HAVE THEY BEEN TO ROOM 23 yet?
oh, someone remind me, what was Shepherd's number? -
Mar 15, 2010 7:22:51 PM CDT
Richard lied, he clearly is a Terminator
by kevin_costners_recycled_piss
Afterall, he cannot self-terminate.
Anyone else find that grave Ben dug to be pretty damn impressive considering he was using what was basically a pointy tube? I suppose he was really taking his time over it, there was probably a deleted scene where he tells them he loves America "Oh say can you see, oh say can you see..." -
thats a pretty good pic...
Readers Talkback
User Login
Top Talkbacks
- A hot redhead (not Harry) is set to play lead in Fede Alvarez's remake of EVIL DEAD! -- 166 total posts 166 posts
- UPDATED: Talkbacker Bob Orci tweets STAR TREK old set pics! -- 243 total posts 87 posts
- The Friday Docback Spelunks 'The Caves Of Androzani'!! DOCTOR WHO Story #136, And More!! -- 90 total posts 81 posts
- RIDDICK Sequel Details Via A New Press Release!! -- 84 total posts 73 posts
- Here Comes THE GODMOTHER! -- 71 total posts 71 posts
- Rest In Peace Ben Gazzara -- 67 total posts 67 posts
- INSIDIOUS-ER? -- 120 total posts 42 posts
- ABC Has Cast The Lead In Its Future Nuclear Nation Pilot!! And They’ve Chosen Wisely!! -- 39 total posts 39 posts
- The Behind the Scenes Pic of the Day, you bitch! You never backed away from anything in your life! Now fight! FIGHT! -- 136 total posts 37 posts
- AWAKE, This Season’s Best Broadcast Pilot, Gets NBC’s Old ER Slot March 1!! THE FIRM To Burn Off On Saturdays!! -- 37 total posts 37 posts