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ScoreKeeper Howls At THE WOLFMAN Score That Almost Was
Update: It appears this is not legit. It's my fault. I apologize. The talkbacks here have been fun though so if you want to continue to argue the merits of Elfman's work in THE WOLFMAN by all means continue.
Greetings! ScoreKeeper here and I'm vexed. Devin Faraci over at CHUD.com (giving credit to Doc Phibes) has posted a YouTube video featuring an audio clip from Paul Haslinger's rejected score for THE WOLFMAN (2010) which was ultimately replaced by Danny Elfman's score which was initially rejected to pursue Haslinger's eventual rejected score...eh, you know.
I appreciated THE WOLFMAN more than I actually enjoyed it. There is simply too much kinetic attraction for me to dismiss it entirely under the weight of its flaws. One of its crown jewels is the amazing score by Danny Elfman which we almost never heard.
It's always interesting to hear rejected scores and wonder the "what-ifs." In the case of THE WOLFMAN I share Devin's sentiment that this was a big "whew!" in my book. I don't fault Haslinger here as I'm sure he was composing the score he was hired to write at the time; however, it's so glaringly wrong for the direction of the music in THE WOLFMAN that I'm aghast that it was ever seriously considered. I understand the need for options and experimentation during the filmmaking process so all I can say here is, congratulations on making the right choice! Even if Elfman's score had to be hacked up to fit a cut of the film that had changed after he scored it, it functioned seamlessly in the film. This is due in large part to the talent and craftsmanship of master orchestrator and composer Conrad Pope who supplied the mortar to Elfman's musical bricks.
It may not have been pretty but Elfman's score is one of my favorites so far this year.
Check out Haslinger's clip HERE for yourself.
ScoreKeeper!!!
ScoreKeeper!!!
Readers Talkback
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The Elfman score is frankly one of the worst I've ever had to sit through. Although I like the film overall, this was definitely a low point. My only question is why the fuck Universal put his score BACK after realizing it was shit to begin with?
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But I agree that it feels worlds removed from the tone of the film. At least now I understand why that TOTAL SHIT Elfman score was reinserted because, if for no other reason, it at least matched the tone.</p><p>But they might as well have just stuck the WHOLE Dracula score in there and saved the money.
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On another note: I STILL HAVEN'T SEEN THE FUCKING MOVIE!!! cAN YOU BELIEVE THAT!?!IT'S MY MOST ANTICIPATED MOVIE OF THIS AND LAST YEAR, BUT I COULDN'T FIND THE TIME TO FINALLY WATCH IT!!!! Damn.
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as if if this WOlman version was a spin off from the shitty and crappy underworld series... luv danny elfmans... may be this version may7 grow on me on repteaded viewings
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(Not trying to diss Supernatural.)
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I can see the slow motion "action scenes" right before my imaginary eye, while listening to the score excerpt.
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Feb. 17, 2010, 10:11 a.m. CST
To make it short: It seriously sounds very, very wrong.
by RedEgiraahgnal
If they wanted a "rock" score, they should have asked Apocalyptica to score it. Not sure if it would have been more fitting, but it would probably have sounded less generic.
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That would definitely be a shame if it just sat on a shelf somewhere.
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the Wolfman score as it is. I thought Danny Elfman did a pretty good job.
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It was a great Wolfman score. Certainly gave the movie a much-needed gravitas, as it was otherwise lacking in story and characterization.
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...by Wojech Kilar's score for Coppola's Dracula. Litigiously so. Apparently the word is that it was 'inspired' by Kilar. Yeah, inspired to re-record it note for note!
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Feb. 17, 2010, 10:28 a.m. CST
Hopefully this is the beginning of a creative renaissance
by SithMenace
for Elfman. I love his 80'/90's stuff, and certain scores from 2000 on, but he has definitely been lacking the past few years.
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I don't have anything against Haslinger, but this cue is generic, fake badass, typical Hollywood "modern" synth/electro/loop/ersatzMetal overproduced bullshit.
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Haslinger's score would have killed the film for me. Pulling of a score with contemporary music for a period film is always a dicey proposition. Out of context, it's got a great gothic vibe to it, but it wouldn't have fit the Wolfman at all.
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It wouldn't make sense for a period piece, but the music is still very cool. It's powerful and driving and everything you would want for a horror movie, but in no way does it fit the WOLFMAN. I am glad they went back to Elfman's score.
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style of music, the slo-mo 300 style. At one point putting in a Barry Manilow song for a romantic comedy was cliche, at this point, this style of music is cliche for ANYTHING to do with horror, action, or scifi. I guess it sounded good in the 28 Days movies.
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heres some samples I found online of Elfman's take. http://tinyurl.com/ylhehte
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i thought the score "stuck its foot in the door" of EVERY scene. Or maybe they were just trying to add to the drama by bringing it and almost shoving it in my face.
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That was awful - just gives you the idea of what "suits" have in mind with what people are expecting as "entertainment." They were trying to cash-in on all the Twilight hype, thinking that adults would like the same things that 15-year old girls like.
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Feb. 17, 2010, 11:48 a.m. CST
I feel the same way about "The Wolfman" and the score
by The Reluctant Austinite
It's severely flawed, but I still enjoyed the cinematograpy, Rick Baker's wonderful Wolfman and Danny Elfman's score. This is a case where EVERYTHING could've been much, much worse. That's certainly a backhanded compliment, but I smiled during every scene that Benicio's Wolfman rampaged across the screen to Elfman's music. I look forward to the extended cut and hope to hear more of Elfman's score in those deleted scenes.
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One problem, amongst many, with the film is that all the atmosphere on screen was suffocated by Wojciech Kil...I mean...Danny Elfman's seemingly wall-to-wall relentless score. I would have prefered a much more sparse approach from a minimalist composer like Michael Nyman that would have allowed the film to breath a little. Lest we all forget,"silence is golden".
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Some have criticized it as being "too obvious", but we don't know if he intended this musical piece to go here or to go there after this project went through an army of editors.
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Who makes the rules? Someone else. Bring back Oingo Boingo!
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Elfman really can't be held liable after all that went on in post. I'm sure whatever Mr. Elfman's original intentions, they were far less cloying than what ultimately got represented in the theater. I hope. However, his music is far too similar to Wojciech Kilar's, that's for certain.
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No other modern composer comes close. Maybe Michael Giacchino would inherit his greatness.
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Philip Glass' Dracula score would have been groovy.
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Just wait.
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That's music that appeared in the very first trailer, before Paul Haslinger was even thought of for the project. This "news" has been all over the Film Score Monthly message board for months. ScoreKeeper reads that message board, and as such I am stunned and infuriated that he would continue to talk about something that has been proved false again and again on numerous other sites. Great journalism, buddy.
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...how much Elfman's effort sounds like Kilar's Dracula score. I was listening to it the other night and wondering why Elfman isn't being sued for copyright infringement.
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It sounded very " Dracula " yet it's Danny's best score in ages.
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But its not the trailer music. Its different enough.
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So, are their details about this supposed rip-off? It reminds me of the Spider-Man 2 sequence bit that the suits wanted to be a rip-off of some Hellraiser music, and Elfman walked. Was he asked to duplicate Dracula, and opt to follow orders this time, or something else?
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last week i went to the dr. for bloodwork. yesterday they called my wife and said that i need to come back in. they want to discuss the results. they wouldn't tell her anything over the phone. so this afternoon i'm gonna go find out what is the dealio. am i dying?
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for a flick that was already on it's death bed for me. I didn't like The Wolfman that much, but I would have excoriated it my review had THIS been the score!
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Feb. 17, 2010, 1:29 p.m. CST
Yea that is a turd, They always hire dudes to do rock,
by the Green Gargantua
that have had their heads up their asses for over a decade virtually ignoring what has been REALLY happening with heavy music. The Ruins of Beverest would make an amazing movie score, or even Blut as Nord.
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The fact the movie takes place in the 1800's... why have electric guitar riffs in such a setting.<br><br>Wasn't this the same (type of) music that was in the 2nd trailer (which I didn't really like)?
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but it did sound appropriate. good luck with the blood test results
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It was hard enough for me to get in to the movie as it is. This score would have taken me out all together. This is all wrong for a period piece like Wolfman is. This is better for another Crow movie.
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The Elfman score, compare it with the score of the original. The original was a deep, brooding piece that really spoke to the heart and soul of Talbot. Like everything in this movie, the Elfman score had no clearly-defined theme beyond endless droning pounding nothing and it was not engaging, no emotion to it. It was a piece of work. Not a piece from anyone's heart. This rock replacement is just awful, and should not be used either. What happened to real movie music? The "suits" don't want it. Then again, it would be lost on the people watching, who more thna likely would be all like "there was music?"
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This is SO off for The Wolfman. This score sounds right for like a modern bank robbery scene gone wrong or like a main character trying to figure his way through something complicated.
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It's the same track that has been on the website since November (which is where the original poster probably got it from). Haslinger didn't record his music until the end of December. This music was not written for WOLFMAN.
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I just saw it and I sat there thinking "...wait a minute, that's from Coppola's Dracula!"... seems I'm not alone
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I wasn't impressed with Elfman's score, as it was a rip of the much better Dracula score... but this I'll admit it's a lot better than this.
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*headbang* *headbang* *headbang* *headbang* *headbang* *headbang* *headbang* *headbang* *headbang* *headbang* *headbang* *headbang*
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Elfmans score had a repeating sequence that was identical to the main theme from King Kong. Very distracting, I kept expecting to see a big ape leap out.
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Classy, sophisticated.
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Well Whorekeeper writes for CHUD so there are some who line up for his occasional rim-job.
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There was no moment to breathe and allow the film to draw the audience in. There were many moments when rain or the ambient sounds of the gothic forest, even just the crackling of fire would have been more effective. Instead all I heard was Elfman's score, which was no better than this alternative score.
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precisely my line of thinking on the matter as well. <p> Bravo.
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Amazing score, check it out. A must-hear for any Bernard Hermann fan.
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I'm sending out positive vibes and shooting a prayer out for ya right this very moment brother. God bless.
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that was BAD. you can just see the exects looking at each other all thinking the same thing. "give elfman a call" "already did sir, he said use what you've got but he aint coming back" <p>cut to elfman "fuckwits"
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Ya, it appears this isn't legit. My fault. But the talkbacks have been cool on this one. All of you complaining that Elfman's score was overbearing or too much surely wouldn't wanted me to have me direct him. My lone complaint is that he didn't do more or go far enough. The action music is great but he pulled way to far back on the smaller cues. All the classic Universal monster scores were not bashful or keen on restraint. I wanted to go deeper into that musical universe. He went there but I would've relished him going all the way. Plus, just the mere notion that this score is overbearing is ridiculous.
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it is AWESOME. I actually wanna see the film now. people say it's ripped dracula? bullshit, it's spiderman gone apeshit
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Score was disappointing cuz it ripped Dracula, even with hopkins in it. Rick Bakers work towards the end was laughably sub par..especially the wolf bear suits in that stupid werewolf fight..which shoulda gone in part 2..they shoulda just followed the original storyline and embellished it. By making his father a villain and giving no background info on talbot they remove the tragedy. And there was no humor in the film except for the unintentional. I credit Joe Johnston for saving it from being a total mess...hopefully the extended version will help.
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I was pretty disappointed by this film overall. It added a lot of things that did not need to be added and left a lot of holes unfilled and questions unanswered...
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Feb. 17, 2010, 9:33 p.m. CST
Am I the only one who found the werewolf fight...
by The_Genteel_Gentile
...finale in front of the fireplace strangely reminescent of the nude wrestling scene in Ken Russell's Women In Love? Except, you know...not good. Seriously it was like a MadTV parody of that scene with werewolves. Also DelToro ain't no Oliver Reed.
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Would you prefer Hans Gregson-Jablonsky? Elfman's scores do NOT all sound alike. He has had PERIODS of similarity between scores (his Pee-Wee period, his Batman period, his Dead Presidents period), but people who claim that all of his scores "sound alike" obviously haven't listened -- REALLY listened -- to anything he's written since 1990. How do Sommersby, Black Beauty, Mission: Impossible, Corpse Bride and A Simple Plan sound even remotely "identical"?
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Feb. 17, 2010, 11:33 p.m. CST
To your point Nasty, I'd prefer Zimmer for sure.
by The_Genteel_Gentile
Have you not heard Zimmer's score for Hannibal? Now that's some grade A gothic romantism and dark tragedy right there. If only Wolfman were as fortunate. I truely wish they'd used Zimmer's Hannibal for the temp track rather than Kilar's Dracula. <p> I like Elfman quite a bit, but he "Mickey Mouses" too darn much and has lost alot of the inspired mojo he had in the 80's and 90's. Zimmer by contrast is still in top form, plus I just prefer the progressive building and long drawn out notes of Zimmer. <p> Speaking of Hannibal, I believe Elfman's last decent score was for Red Dragon way back in '02. <p> Now tell the truth, you were just reading off Elfman titles from the back of your "Music For A Darkened Theater Vol.2" CD weren't you? C'mon, your amongst friends here, admit it.
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Feb. 17, 2010, 11:37 p.m. CST
Corpse Bride and A Simple Plan were post-Darkened Theater
by Nasty In The Pasty
The basic idea still stands...anyone who thinks Elfman only does that "Ooompa-ooompa" shit or just writes "wacky circus music" is severely deluded.
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It's not just ONE theme, he recycles a BUNCH of them in this, and Scorekeeper, it's the bricks that are just as much at fault as any editing hackwork. Like I said before, Elfman's lazy-arse score rips off not just his own Batman score which he already shamelessly pilfered for Spiderman. It also rips off Jackson's Kong, and it rips yes, the Coppola Drac as well. Normally I'd say the Drac score and this one using gypsy-tinged instrumentation is appropriate in both cases and therefore a certain degree of similarity makes sense, but again, this was shameless. <p> I don't hate Elfman at all, but when he falls into recycling the same orchestrations, motifs and themes he's been using since Family Dog (which he then used in Beetlejuice - check the Family Dog basement scene), I get shitty. This one didn't go back THAT far, but still was "lazy" Danny. From memory I loved stuff like A Simple Plan though because it showed he could forget himself and actually serve the story/film before his own ego. I think people these days actually hide church bells/recordings/files from him! <p> Nasty, I think BOTH views are right. He doesn't ALWAYS do the Beetlejuice shtik, but when he DOES fall back into it it's pretty annoying if the setting's not appropriate. <p> Scorekeeper, I don't get it. I usually look to you for informed and level-headed opinion, but I don't understand how you could possibly call this a good score. The building blocks are all so shamelessly recycled from his own work and other films and especially the Kong score's inappropriate tempo for the train scene takes you right out of the movie. It's not just editing or switching around after the fact. It's the main themes and how ill-judged (while taking the audience out of the story) they were on every level. At least with this one the music wasn't a lumpy indistinguishable sonic mess like Wonka. We were supposed to HEAR what the Oompa Loompas were singing? I know that's not all Elfman but still... how the hell does something that awful get out? Maybe like this - no time. Oh and I didn't even look at that other fake score. I'd be interested to hear what it was really like though. <p> Just to make sure I wasn't imagining things I used a freebie and saw Wolfman again the other day. The music distracted and annoyed me even MORE this time. The last time an awful score has made me this cranky was the lifeless, soul-sucking abomination from the first X-Men movie.
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Can someone do A/B comparisons to actually show how blatant Wolfy is? Go either Batman to Wolfy or Spiderman to Wolfy, then do Drac to Wolfy, then Kong to Wolfy. I ain't no musicky type so I don't know how to do it, but I'm sure someone here does. <p> Speaking of "Mickey Mousing" I love it in original Kong and considering all the jump/scares I think that sorta score would've been O.K., but not all the apeing (haw!).
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apeing in Wolfman I mean. Duh.
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but more like the 70's Frank Langella Dracula with John Williams' score.
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That sacore was miles ahead better then the fucking abomination of a score that James Horner made for the movie. Yared's score was pretty good, and the final end credits song he composed was great, specially in comparison to the fucking piece of shit that Horner shat and called a song.
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nowadays. I miss the glory days of John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, James Horner, Basil Poledouris etc. Nobody today has anywhere near their talent. It was a pleasure to hear Horner's score for Avatar (derivative though it was) - an old school orchestral epic in the way that none of todays kids can seem to get to grips with. <p> And Giacchino is the new Williams in the same way that Abrams is the new Spielberg. He isn't.
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When the Score distracts you from the film, then it is not doing it's job. The film is a collaboration process and should be seamless, the score complementing the mood instead of bulldozing the audience when it does not need to. A great score pulls back when the "empty space" is required. It appears that some are confusing the score's quality with how it is laid over the beats of the film. You can have great music, but place it at the wrong time or overdo it and you nullify both the visuals and the score itself. Good to see Gentile and others picking up on the same thing.
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Isn't that the truth? Thank goodness Elliot Goldenthal is still around.
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...the studio imposed electronic rape of Michael Kamen's already rushed original orchestral intentions for X-Men, rather than lambasting Kamen himself right? Because Kamen was fantastic and sorely missed. He did more whilst suffering from multiple sclerosis than John Ottman and his ilk could ever dream.
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First off, yes Goldenthal is great. Kudos sir. <p> But second, Gabriel Yared's score for Troy was awful and unforgivable when you account for the fact that he was given over a year to produce it. Horner, by contrast, was give mere weeks and was able to still produce a pretty rousing and effective score, albeit while ripping off generously from David Arnold's Stargate as well as his own back catalog such as Braveheart. But Horner knows how to produce a highly complimentary score for film and Gabriel Yared really does not. Just look at Yared latest score for Amelia, the music sounds fine but does nothing for the movie itself. Horner of course infamously said as much about Yared in an interview, and I'm inclined to agree. <p> BTW, I'm actually listening to Yared rejected score as I type, and it's not a half bad listen, but I'm confident Wolfgang Petersen was very wise to call in David Arnol...uhm, I mean Horner ultimately. Becuase Horner's just simply a master at marrying music to image, that's all. It's a refined art that Yared does not understand nearly as well. That's not to say I don't have severe criticisms for Horner and his plagiaristic ways, please do understand that. But at the end of the day his is a better FILM score than Yared's. <p>Okay, sorry for being redundant, carry on and good day.
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Listen to Yared's score for THE ENGLISH PACIENT and then you might reconsider your opinion of him. Adn his work for TROY was far better then Horner's. The fact Horner took the job wioth only two weeks for TROY only shows what a mercenary for hire he really is. and Horner's score for TROY is abominable. I don't care he only had two weeks. If the timeline was so short, why didn't he had shared duties with another composer, like Hans Zimmer does? James Horner can kiss my ass!<br><br>Good to know you are an admirer of the great Goldenthal. He isindeed one of the best. He's making too few movie scores, if you ask me. I guess he just prefers to work with his wife. Or Michael Mann.
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... but his score for X-MEN 1 is a big pile of nothingness. It doesn't even sound like he did it, it's so uncharacteristic of him. Had they put the name James Horner in the credits i would had believed.
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... and now i fucking detest the man with fury. I get stomach cramps everytime i learn he is making the score for a movie i want to see.
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Loud and clear. <p> Horner owned the mid 90's, that's a fact. I too am now filled with dread when reading his name in the marcque. I mean really, why not just keep the Glory-Braveheart-Apollo 13-Titanic temp track and call it a day. <p> But The English Patient is a drama that really only requires some beautiful music to serve it's aural needs, I mean something, anything lushly romantic really ought to suffice. Classical music could have done the same job. But a genre film like the epic adventure of Troy has much more specific requirements in temperment and tone, to counterplay certain moments and match others beat for beat. It's a delicate balance that Yared knows not, I think. I get what you're saying though, I just think, like Avatar, Horner's Troy score "works". It just does the job whether inspired or not and does so better than Yared's would have. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one I guess. <p> Although I love Goldenthal, Mann edited his music for Public Enemies into a hot mess. He's known to do that type of thing, just ask Trevor Jones and Randy Edelman.
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is easily the best music the series has ever had though.
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I love the use of music in THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS. Besides, i know that mvoie from the international release version, which had a great use of the music, and none of that Clannad song in the middle of it. So, in that retard, i'm forced to say that Mann did the right thing. I saw the american domestic version of LAST OF THE MOHICANS and yes, it's edited worst, with whole segments unincluded. It does hurt the movie.<br><br>Actually, i think horner's last great score, or last good score for that mater, was GLORY. After that he begin his tiresome self-replicating bullshit. And no, i don't count his Braveheart has a great score. Nowdays i even had difficulty calling it a good score, and i bought the CD. All his so-called good 90s scores have far outstayed their welcome, as far i'm concerned. I still love most of his 80s stuff, though. For me, it's as if Horner had died after Glory.<br><br>You understimate Yared's score for THE ENGLISH PACIENT. The guy is good. He really is good. He's the real deal. And composing for romance might even be harder then for action. You don't have the action to distract from the music.<br><br>As for Elliot Goldenthal, he was once nominated for a score he composed in two weeks: INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPYRE. I kid you not! So, Horner's lament about his fuck up with Troy means nothing to me.
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Thank you! my bloodwork results showed that my bad cholesterol was WAY high and my good cholesterol was WAY low. so, i'm not dying. yet. it's just not good. dr. wants me to get on Lipitor. i'm only 36. and since i'm here i'll just say to white_vader: YAYYY!! for mentioning Family Dog.
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I was talking about the final score that's on X-Men 1 is that Kamen? I like Kamen, but whether it was studio rape or Kamen's fault, X-Men 1 score is shite. I don't see how the lifeless music isn't his fault, and I'm not talking inappropriate placement or badly edited cues in exactly the same way I disagree with scorekeeper that it's the glue and not the bricks or whatever in The Wolfman. As for dismissing or praising a composer outright though, I don't give anyone a clean pass for everything. And while I like "invisible" scores, I also like leitmotif and the tone and Singer's direction of X-Men 1 really required it. Interference wouuldn't surprise me, and would easily explain Ottman who is both Composer and Editor. A typically political Singer move to get around the problem. <p> I also like scores that balance both approaches, like (trying to recall one) Shore's Seven score, or his stuff for Cronenberg. I like Goldenthal too. <p> Getting back on topic, that's why I said what I did about Elfman. He DOES do some great stuff in both 'incidental' or supporting/less ostentatious stuff, but he DOES do some lazy-arse recycled crap too. I'm not going to as simplistic as your general TBer and reduce it all down to this composer vs that composer or even that a particular composer is ALWAYS great and that guy ALWAYS sucks. Even Trevor Jones, who I generally hold up as your stereotypical wussy English composer (how's that for blanket statements eh?) who did awful stuff combining modern instrumentation like watered-down electric guitar on say, Labyrinth which I maintain would have been a MUCH more effective/successful film with a great score (he's no Jarre), has been fine on other things like, um, Dark City. Even Dark Crystal seems to operate at half-mast a lot of the time. Anyway, point is like anyone, composers have their ups and downs. And at the moment, Elfman is making me crazy. <p> Speaking of interference/re-cutting, does anyone (Scorekeeper,are you still out there) have any infor on why Elfman's Wonka is so awful? I don't think it's the studio as Elfman did a similar (not as bad but) thing on Corpse Bride. The levels are all over the place. Surely it wouldn't have been an engineer without Elfman's input...
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Welcome to the club dude. Lipitor and Family Dog - two things we've got in common.
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Shh!
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10 yearsa go i would agree. This days, he composed the score for TERMINATOR SALVATION. I rest my case.
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10 years ago i would agree. This days, he composed the score for TERMINATOR SALVATION. I rest my case.
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Feb. 19, 2010, 2:53 p.m. CST
Of course, it would help if you BAMF!ed to the right thread.
by Subtitles_Off
This is obviously the wrong one.
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im making popcorn...
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But this time, I had to leave a more obvious breadcrumb so Flick wouldn't get lost.<P>He is, after all, Some Other Guy.
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that we're in the wolfs lair..<P>i crack myself up sometimes...<P>i really wanna see that doc..ive heard about it for quite some time...
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(cue music, something attention grabby and all TVish)<P>The views expressed by Some Guy don't necessarily represent the views of this station, The Pedalback, or any of its advertisers. Hell, they might not even represent the true views of Some Guy. Same thing for Some Other Guy unless he says otherwise. Any use of the blah-blah-blah without written consent is prohibited, and we don't just mean it's discouraged, we mean we'll track down your pirate ass and kick it.<P>As for SPOILERS, well, both Guys have already seen the movie, so you can't spoil it for us, but thanks anyway. Oh, you were worried we might spoil it for you? Well, then, maybe you should be ignoring us. Anything said by Some Guy or Some Other Guy might expose a secret, offend you, anger you, or cause convulsive reactions and subsequent beverage spilling. Neither Guy is responsible.<P>In this episode, Some Guy & Some Other Guy discuss...<BR>BR><BR>BR>SHUTTER ISLAND<BR>BR>(fade music on 3...2...1)
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...sorry to hold things up.
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Where DEƒUCK® is Some Other Guy?<P>BAMF! fragged up our show.
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He's so vain
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SHUTTER ISLAND turns out to be the first love-it/hate-it movie of the new decade. What side of the aisle are you gonna plant your butt, Other Guy?
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Just relax and read what's on the teleprompter.
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...I'd say the movie worked GREAT!...about fifty percent of the time. Maybe sixty.
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...it isn't coming together and makes him sound like Some Other Asshole...
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Or do we wait until after opening arguments?
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he's right there with you in the middle. Keep your head down, would you, please? I will so-go 'Lop all over your arse.<P>M. Night Scorsese, Marty's evil twin brother, has made a film that is gorgeous and rich, based off a story that is preposterous and illogical.
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...right up front that I'm sure that Martin Scorsese is much smarter than I am...I'm sure all decisions about the making of SHUTTER ISLAND were well thought out and calculated. Any complaints I have only reflect whether I think this movie is effective for Some Other Guy...not...you know, the History Of Cinema and stuff.<P> I thought this movie worked great...about fifty percent of the time. Maybe sixty. I REALLY hate to be the jerk who brags that he had the movie figured out in the first half hour...but man, Scorsese telegraphed things with a hammer in this one....and I spent most of the movie hoping to be wrong...that I didn't have it figured out.<P>Sadly, I did.
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What did you think of the acting?
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Feb. 22, 2010, 10:29 a.m. CST
...I thought the acting was stilted, stagey, and oddly...
by FlickaPoo
...paced. For good reason it turns out, but you're still left with a movie where 80% of the time it feels as though you're in a HARDY BOYS story...
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(But to skip ahead, "yes and no.")
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But Leo's been working out, though. For the first time, he comes across as a man and not some boyish wannabe. The fire-lit scene with him and Patricia Clarkson is as good an example of great acting as the scene of him and Moocher is an example of bad, stilted acting.<P>And, there is no way you had "The Law of 4" figured out! I don't think Dennis Lahanne, who wrote the shit, knows what that means!
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Feb. 22, 2010, 10:32 a.m. CST
...wait, I have to modify that. I spent half the movie...
by FlickaPoo
...hoping I was wrong about the ending...and the other half hoping I was right, because only one ending could fully explain the metronome-ish CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE type pacing.
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about the CGI.<P>Michelle Williams has a nice ash.<P>Seriously, the CGI looks pretty good, considering it's used for a dream sequence.<P>That CGI-enhanced shot of the execution at Dachau is a stunning sequence!
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...no, no, there were all kinds of great acting moments sprinkled throughout...more of a pacing issue really...like a play, or a bombastic dream...
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that 30-40 second shot is worth admission alone. They're gonna be raving about that one for years.
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...I hated the Michelle's ash...but I too really liked the execution shot...<P>I should really back off for a moment and say that I enjoyed watching the movie. I'm making it sound as though I hated it...I didn't. I just think Scorsese made a bunch of conscious decisions that in retrospect didn't work out so well.
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I realize that's the whole point. Marty's masterfully pulling on all your paranoid synapses the whole time. It really is a fantastic piece of work, but that ending essentially pulls the rug out from under everything.
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Leaves ya there rubbing your bruised ass.
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...within the first thirty minutes...right? Mr. Marty laid all his cards right there on the table...early and blatantly...
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Or, THEY WORK TOO WELL, in the service of a lazy story. <P>The twist - which, yeah, any half-wit can see coming from a mile back - is preposterous and renders everything before it moot.<P>"You're the most dangerous patient we have here."<P>Oh really? That's why you let him run around endangering the health and well-being of all the other patients?
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The story is blatant and obvious. Marty does the best he can, I think, considering.<P>There are a lot of subtleties to the way he's structured things. He does a sensational job at keeping you on the edge of your seat.
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...Land in the theater. The common clay of the new West...you know, morons.<P>The creepy events and scares kept coming at such a regular and rhythmic pace that eventually they all just started laughing.<P>I hate to say it, but the moron's weren't completely wrong.
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It's based on a novel! I do understand Some Other Guy's argument that maybe too much was given away too soon. But, you can't blame the ending on Marty.
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with clay people, but I'll admit to laughing out loud at the waterfall of rats and creepy, talky corpse girl.
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Fuck me.
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...but he picked the story...it's not as though his hands are tied.
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and while a second viewing enhances a lot of the subtleties that Scorsese squeezes in there and even reduces the surprise-sex aspect of the resolution (since you can see it coming, you can pay attention to how it plays out instead of your initial frustration, and it 's not so offensive), it also exaggerates the flaws in the entire plot.
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...quit dancing around spoilers.<P>We're gonna run out of fuel here if we can't address the main event...
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Batman characters through the whole thing. There's Penguin and Poison Ivy and Zsasz and Mr. Freeze.
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SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P>SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P> SPOILERS<P>
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...an old text-based adventure game...especially in the dungeon tower...<P>you are in a dark and damp corridor, do you turn left? Or do you turn right?<P> You see a dark cell, do you reach for your matches? Y or N?<P> A terrifying prisoner approaches you, do you speak to him? Y or N?<P> You stepped too close to the prisoner, he grabs you and chokes you.<P>GAME OVER.
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Marty's love for Hitchcock and Noir is all over the first two-thirds of this thing, and the issues raised re: paranoia, multiple personalities, repressed guilt, psychiatric advances from the dark ages of torture to the era of enlightment are all provocative, interesting, and not hard-hammered. it's just that everything is turned to "whatever" by that resolution.
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that's the intended style. You can't say Scorsese was clumsy about the way he did it. You can only say that type of thing doesn't push your buttons.
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...the forms and traditions that Scorsese was obviously playing with...I kept trying to give him the benefit of the doubt because I liked a lot of things about the movie.<P>But it was distracting. I kept thinking...<P> "that's odd. It must be an old noir thing. I'll have to ask Conti or Subs." <P> "that's odd. It must be an old noir thing. I'll have to ask Conti or Subs." <P> "that's odd. It must be an old noir thing. I'll have to ask Conti or Subs." <P> "that's odd. It must be an old noir thing. I'll have to ask Conti or Subs." <P> "that's odd. It must be an old noir thing. I'll have to ask Conti or Subs."
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if Elias Koteas was going to just borrow the make-up from Brannagh's FRANKENSTEIN, why Marty didn't just cast DeNiro in that cameo? Are they not talking to each other? Deniro's damaged goods after MEET THE FOCKERS, innit he?
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Nice reading so far, Some Guy and Some Other Guy. I'm dying to weigh in.
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ask Conti. I'm no expert on Noir.<P>Don't you think, though, that it was nice to have such a gorgeous application made to what is, essentially, just a spook-house tale?<P>That set is fantastic.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 11:02 a.m. CST
(Go ahead, all. Pretend you're yelling at the TV screen.)
by Subtitles_Off
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...here's my main problem.<P>A lot of the acting and pacing felt intentionally staged. I know Scorsese is a smart guy...so it must be intentional...so either this is all a setup, or more likely this is all a delusion and he's already insane...or both.<P> And sure enough, Scorsese is a smart guy...nothing was accidental. Everything felt fake because is WAS fake.<P>But you're still left with a movie where 80% of what you see on screen fells fake. I think it's a design flaw. A skillfully executed flawed concept.
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and in my opinion there is no other way to look at it, especially given the twist ending as everything that happened up to that point was from the perspective of a seriously delusional man going in and out of reality, then I think it works. Some other guy seems to be looking at it from a straight realistic narrative perspective.
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the little touch of ambiguity right at the end. Is Leo cured? Is he just pretending? Sort of volunteering for a lobotomy?<P>I wish they'd found a way at the script-writing level to put in a lot more of that ambiguity into the ending.
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And now that I've had a chance to reflect on it and the ending which is devastating, geez... I think Marty was just trying to make a different type of film...he wasn't shooting for the fences per se to make a big statement film. But it is a good film. Will see again for the details I saw but didn't.
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For a second I thought it was DeNiro and that would have been awesome, but would have added to the artificiality that Some Other Guy is lamenting.
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90% of what you see onscreen IS fake. Everything might be an illusion. That's exactly the problem. The things that aren't illusory - the physical actions - make absolutely no sense once they're explained. That's why you leave the theater thinking "what DEƒUCK® ?"<P>There is no justifiable reason to allow any of the things the doctors allow to happen. This is all about one individual's sanity, remember, in an institution of 66 other individuals.
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...kept thinking..."this is sooo intentionally staged. It HAS to be on purpose..." <P>And sure enough, it WAS on purpose. But if your whole movie it taking place inside a bombastic dream...you're still left watching two and a half hours of a bombastic dream.<P>I say it's well executed, deeply flawed concept.
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SPOILER: It's a common thing in nightmares. That random, singular, malformed monstrosity that, in all likelihood, symbolizes some idea or feeling you have about yourself or a situation you're in. And let's face it, Teddy/Andrew's life is a waking nightmare.
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You think he reset... But then he makes that final statement...wish it was a little more ambiguous though..
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and have him on his way back to the mainland on the ferry. But. then pull a Brazil and cut to a lobotomized DiCapio. So in his mind he escaped.
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it's a 5-star execution of a two-star story. I give it ★★★☆☆ ½><P>I suggest, if M. Night had made this, in exactly the same way, we'd be calling for his head on a plate with boiled potatoes.
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Was him being electroshocked
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Shot his wife??
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to explain "The Law of 4." Yeah, Gandhi scribbles four anagrams on the board, but that's two pairs of two. That hardly counts as a "law of 4."
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Yeah, that's the reason he's there.
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I believe that Dr. Kingsley's experimental therapy methods as he explained them were real. So, I totally buy the huge role play experiment they pulled. Plus, they new that Andrew was really a good/moral person. And it was clear that not all of the staff agreed with Dr. Kingsley's experiment at all. Plus the warden was pretty badass and they had some serious security in that place. Also, Dr. Chuck was pretty much with Teddy the whole time.
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...somewhere else with it.<P>A recent THIS AMERICAN LIFE story was about a guy who wakes up in India with no idea who he is. The local Indian authorities are very sympathetic and helpful, and take him directly to a substance abuse/halfway house. <P>Everyone wants the best for the guy, and tries to help him clean up his life...the guy completely buys the narrative that is being lovingly pushed on him...he writes long letters apologizing to his family for being a fuck up...and finally ends up restrained and sedated in a mental institution.<P>Turns out the guy just lost his memory due to the anti-malaria drugs he had to take...he was an aid worker with a successful career, but in the absence of any evidence he completely accepted the assumed narrative about him.<P>I kept hoping the story would be more interesting than IT WAS ALL A DREAM.
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You had to appreciate some of more movie-ish aspects of the film. The setting, the cinematography, the sound (once it settled down, that is - the dong-dong-dong accompanying their arrival at the asylum was so derivative, it was annoying).
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But I don't think killing your crazy wife for drowning your kids should have you locked up...they shouldve elab'd that hebwent nuts at work or started looking for a killer when there wasn't one....
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SHUTTER ISLAND is not about some superficial twist. I knew, or at least figured out, the twist coming in, but as the movie crept along (and this movie creeps along; it's requires a patience that, sadly, much of today's audience lacks), it became apparent to me that the twist itself was immaterial next to Teddy/Andrew's journey to the point of realization. That said, since Scorsese and DiCaprio (I think it's his best performance yet) did such a fine job immersing me in Teddy/Andrew's experience and psyche, the movie created enough doubt that I may have been wrong all the time. Thankfully there was no herky jerky flip at the end. That would have been cheap. Instead, we're left as bruised and battered as Teddy/Andrew, contemplating guilt, shame and our inherent violence. This damned movie lingers. <p>It opens like a potboiler in the beginning because it is through the eyes and mind of Teddy/Andrew. Scorsese has a knack for taking us into the psyche of lead characters and compelling us to empathize. Only here he uses B-movie tropes to do it, but without it ever feeling truly like a B-movie beyond the opening moments, even though the plot is preposterous, as Some Guy says. And even at the beginning everything is laced with a queasy dread that hints there is more going on than what appears. <p>SHUTTER ISLAND is an equisitely crafted slow burn, adorned with one great character turn after another and masterful production values. Thelma Schoonmaker is in top form here. The music is expertly chosen. The piece at the beginning (anybody know what it is?), which feels portentous at first, becomes more bitter and appropriate througout. Robert Richardson continues to deliver A-plus cinematography, especially in a spectacular flashback shot that depicts American soldiers executing Nazi concentration guards. <p>SHUTTER ISLAND is the work of a master, but the master in this case, Scorsese, has left his guns at the front gate. He's not shooting blindly here, as he did through much of the flawed but loveable THE DEPARTED. Scorsese's in his patient, formal-rigor mode here, like in TAXI DRIVER, RAGING BULL and THE AGE OF INNOCENCE. It's his best film since 1995's CASINO.
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of the scenes with the other patients. there is no moral or ethical explanation to allow a single patient to play mind-fuck with others. Also, "Andrew's" violent tendencies are actual and documented. He has disfigured Moocher, for crying out loud. Gandhi says - and this is not a fantasy - that "Andrew" has to "snap out of it" instantly because, due to his violence, there are doctors who want to have him lobotomized.
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...through the movie...there was much to enjoy.
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You have to realize that SHUTTER ISLAND is a period piece and during the 50s psychiatric medicine was still in the relative dark ages. they locked bed-wetters in institutions, for crying out loud. That is one of the themes running through SHUTTER ISLAND that is wasted by the rote, predictable and ridiculous "mystery" of Lahanne's original.
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I'm with you nearly 100%. The director is giving us the wrap-up signal. They want to cut to Oprah or some shit. <P>What's your rating, star-wise?
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That the main conceit...you have to acknowledge and accept that he's given free reign about the place... He's unarmed, has supervision for the most part, security is basically around him...
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That this was the 50s. Some seriously f-d up shit was done to mental patients up until recent history. Dr. Ghandy really believe that Andrew was capable of rehabilitation whereas the majority of the other patients were not. I'm sure worse experiments than this have taken place in mental institutions in real life, for instance lobotomy which is a horrifying last resort as it is in the film.
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...as the first Guy's, and for the same reasons.<P>I loved half of this movie...the other half was a bold, but failed experiment.<P>Three stars.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 11:32 a.m. CST
Interesting parallel, plot-wise, to SHUTTER ISLAND:
by ColonelFatheart
Blatty's THE NINTH CONFIGURATION. You guys see it?
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Also, Col., nice review of your own, there. I'll post it up at Right-Brain Archives, you-know-where.
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following your rubric: ★★★★☆ ½
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I look forward to seeing this feature again and again.
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I can see why people will be blindsided. It's basically played as a mystery of a lost person then slowly and subtly turns to a schizo pyschodrama...there's a lot I liked and not really much I would change...
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It was a glimpse into the mind of a man and how he is trying to come to grips with his past, his sins and his reality. That is more profound than it was all just a dream. Everything in the movie has a point, because it helps unlocks the secrets to the protagonist's character and reveal who he really is.
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SPOILERS: Anyway....I left the movie having no idea what the "Law of 4"was. Forgot about it, didn't remember them explaining it, didn't seem to be relevant. Guess I wasn't paying attention.<p>Anyone who has ever seen a movie had to know Leo was crazy but I enjoyed the ride finding out how and to what extent he was crazy. Did they ever explain the band aid on his temple? I never caught the explanation on that and it was the most obvious clue that he was a patient already.<p>Once they described "Rachel's delusions" it was pretty obvious that was HIS condition.<p>The mossy prison was unbelievably great. The weather added to the tense atmosphere and sucked me in. I feel like I say this all the time...cast was great except Leo. He wasn't bad at all but he is so "movie pretty" I can never accept him as a "real guy". 8 out of 10
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...people paid for blood and tears and all we did was cuddle. <P> Fortunately now we have strong differing opinions from the rest of you guys...let the real fun begin!
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Almost brought me to tears...
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unexplained. It's remarked about once or twice - "How's your head" - and it might add credence to Sixies electro-shock treatment theory.
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a lot of the times.
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Most convincing he's been since he was on TV and had to pretend to look up to Kirk Cameron.
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about the 67th patient and the LAW of 4?<P>did the doctors plant it there? to jog his psyche?
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ooh show me that smile!
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...I was being hyperbolic and simplistic with IT WAS ALL A DREAM...there's a lot more to it than that.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 11:47 a.m. CST
I thought Leo's "movie pretty" looks took a back seat.
by ColonelFatheart
He looked really weathered and lined. He did a lot of acting through his eyes in this, too. There wasn't a moment he wasn't in deep, metaphysical pain, and it showed.
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★★★★☆...just cause ive only seen it once and there are some things left unanswered that might be better explained a second time round..
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most studied films.
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I thought that was a decent "twist" that he was a doctor and not just a "figment" of Leo's mind. Wasn't he sitting next to Leo when they were interviewing the patients and someone comments on his looks and running the group or was he out of the room at that point? Anyway he is developing a lot of character in his face as he gets older. He has done some good stuff in the past but i think his best films are yet to come.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 11:53 a.m. CST
...I kinda like Michelle Williams, but I thought she was...
by FlickaPoo
...terrible. Distracting, unintentionally funny...<P>I don't think it was her fault...I think Scorsese gets the blame for that one.
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you just gave it 3 stars outta 5...that aint a failure...thats better than average...<P>only it can be deemed a failure cause we're talking about marty...<P>but then sometimes he just wants to cut loose..and not make GREAT FILMS...<P>i look at this film as an experiement...can he do it?<P>the answer is yes...naturally.
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That head shake at the end was heartbreaking. Ruffalo is one of the finer actors working today.
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He left momentarily while Crazy Lady #7 warned "Teddy" to RUN.
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want to discuss andrew to teddy around his "partner"...<P>im sure all these little nuances that ARE there will resonate more clearer the second time.
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On the contrary, Flick, I thought she did a fine job, particularly during the real flashback at the end. Her crazy is very, very real, and it feels very dangerous.
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I think all that study will be for naught.<P>Other than the "movie" aspects of the film - it's style, directing, lighting, pacing, etc. - which all merit study. Those things are all perfect.<P>The story is just useless. Won't hold the weight of any serious study. It's B-movie junk.
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whoops...
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because to do so risks a physical beating as "Andrew" gave to "Noyce." there's nothing deeper than that to that specific aspect of the story. "Andrew" is feared by patients and staff. That's why they're all on edge, and that's exactly the reason the story falls apart.<P>I don't care who Dr. Gandhi is, he would not be allowed to stage such a potentially dangerous "role-play," putting other patients at physical and psychological risk.
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I feel like that's lipstick on a pig. No matter what you put before or after the word FAILURE it's still FAIL. That's like giving me the finger and saying, "But I'm wearing a diamond ring." Yeah that's a pretty ring. You still told me to go fuck myself.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 12:02 p.m. CST
...I mean Noble Failure in the military or sports sense...
by FlickaPoo
...I think he lost the battle, but he put up an admirable fight.
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my bad..
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She's a cipher. But, then again, she represents his idealized memory of her, so maybe her emptiness is a perfectly reasonable acting choice.<P>That's another reason the movie falls apart for me. You can't really trust yourself while you watch it, and while that's fun some times, and part of the intended experience in this case, it isn't very rewarding.
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I'm glad they liked it as much as I did. I totally bought into the movie from the beginning and trusted Marty to take me where ever he wished to go. I was not trying to figure out the plot the whole time, I was just enjoying the experience. Is it perfect? No, but it is near great. ***1/2 Stars
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Giving me the finger while wearing a diamond ring.<P>I wish I had thought of that!
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It won't be studied in screenwriting classes, for sure, but all that other stuff--which, really, is what makes movies MOVIES--will end up being evaluated and written about. This movie's a film aesthete's dream. Add in the fact that all the "movie aspects" of the film were what made the ridiculous story as absorbing as it was, SHUTTER ISLAND's academic value grows.
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maybe gandhi was allowed to do what he did for a short time...maybe it wasnt on record to the mainland...it was on the downlow...<P>thats my only take on it..<P>and the crazy lady was trying to help him..when ruffalo walked to get her water...
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It allows for a lot of debate. Also..did you see that I gave you the bad ass "one-liner" at the end of floaters. Your welcome;)
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...he gave it his best...used every bit of terrain to best advantage...and fought bravely to the last man.<P>History makes songs and legends about noble failures...but ultimately he couldn't hold the hill.<P>And I'm not sure the hill was worth making a stand on in the first place.
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I guess four is the standard, but I prefer Netflix's five. It makes it easier to denote a baseline at three for the average.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 12:08 p.m. CST
And valiantly, Scorsese didn't give up on the story.
by ColonelFatheart
You can tell he was determined to make it work. That's why the twist wasn't some cheap, bombastic reveal. It was always there, just under the surface, like it is in Andrew/Teddy's conscience. There really is no twist, just an acknowledgement.
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...I thought you liked it better than that.<P> ***1/2 is just OK in my book.
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and he elevated it pretty high was his style...<P>think if this was in the hands of some other director..
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Hair of the dog, Lloyd. Hair of the dog.
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Like you, I reserve 5 stars for masterpieces only.
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Agreed. And yet another Maguffin. Why would she want to help him? She knows he might end up lobotomized? If she's "in" on the act, as she would HAVE to be for it to work - and think about that for a moment, the doctors are counting on loonies for key roles in their little farce - she knows they're trying to help him, not hurt him.<P>
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but I've come to embrace the five-star. So much more flexibility.
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I think I'm getting carried away with "its Marty" love. 4 out of 5 stars is near perfect. I enjoyed the ride and loved the look of the movie. The problems were in the writing and narrative and general flow of the movie. I also thought Michelle was really good for the role she played. I really hated the shit outta her at the end. After rethinking it 3.5 outta 5.
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if you want to interpret her "shusshing" him at the beginning that way. And, I say, why not, since nothing is clear, any interpretation is fair game. That's sloppy.
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She's crazy. She doesn't know or care that the doctors are trying to help him. She only knows they are playing him. And the other patients were not critical parts of the scheme, imo.
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Can't wait until 'Lop shows up and schools us all, and we all start letting half stars fly hither and thither.
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...split things right down the middle if necessary.<P>If I was Ebert I'd need a sideways thumb.
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Most times, it isn't as cut and dried as "up" and "down."
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I consider 5 stars. So, 3 1/2 is high for me.
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after Leo was wearing the orderly whites, I thought it would turn out that EVERYONE in white would be patients and that the "patients" he had interviewed were actually the nurses. When he was staying in the orderly quarters during the storm I was almost sure of this.
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at least said something to him. They were clearly keeping an eye on them. I wouldn't be surprised if she was told to tell him to run as part of the act as it would play into his paranoid fantasy.
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...I can't not picture her as The French woman in LOST.<P>Maybe Leo had been on a LOST bender and she crept into his subconscious.
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Why are they, as well as smiley guy with the rake, the only patients at the staff meeting being conducted that "Teddy" returns and nearly walks into? The patients aren't in on it? Why are they shackled at the start and not at the end? Oh, crazy people just let themselves get shackled without issue, all the time. or, maybe, those patients don't even exist. They're all figments of his imagination? Either way, as I said, it's sloppy.
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i think there were different levels of loonys in the bin...and i think teddy said that the responses sounded coached...like they were told what to say...perhaps they were given extra outside time if they cooperated..
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Second best thing in the movie next to the execution at Dachau.
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If this came out in the Aughts it would have made my top ten.
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...every day, a good man is deprived of his cupcake...and we sit here and do NOTHING.
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Did anyone say they had seen that? It's plot is VERRRRY similar to SHUTTER ISLAND.
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Therefore, "in" on it. You can't be "crazy" and still be relied upon to act as you are coached.
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Never seen DREAM TEAM either.
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or hinge of the film...<P>she is basically his subconscious talking to him...<P>and its so true that once youre labeled crazy, every action you do and have done will only enforce that...<P>the mere accusation of that is hurtful..like being labeled a communist by the HOUAC.
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even if its very ending is too sunny and "inspirational" for its own good.
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SPOILERS back on, guys.
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Is that Andrew was Dr. Ghandi's golden goose. Being a U.S. Marshal the government would have special interest in him. If Dr. Ghandi were to cure him then it would prove his methods to work and he would be granted government funding. He mentions this in the movie. Do you really find it that hard to believe that a psychiatrist in the 50s with with near free reign would use an elaborate experiment to save his research. The fact that they are experimenting on the inmates is built into the script and perhaps that is not all illusion. In fact we know that it is not.
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1990 comedy with chris lloyd and peter boyle and michael keaton who are in a mental institute and they go to a baseball game things go awry...
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SPOILER<P>SPOILER<P>SPOILER<P> <Br> <Br> <Br> <Br> <Br> But, with the ending, all of that has to be tossed as his "delusion."
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...convincing Ben Kingsley was at the end...how fragile and subjective your own perceptions are...
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to THE EXORCIST. Not EXORCIST f'n II.
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One critic compared Shutter Island to it.
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is on track for approval. Basically you'll be able to bet on whether a movie makes x amount of dollars. Wow. WOW.
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is CLEAR that he is crazy. She is just hanging out in a cave like Spock in New Trek and she has no shoes on. She's fuckin Rambo? That is where this movie lost it for me.
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...by John Fowles...except for the ending.<P>A young English guy has a teaching post on a small Greek island...and the other half of the island is owned by an eccentric rich guy who fucks with his head with elaborate staged events.<P>Fowles also wrote the famous and excellent THE FRENCH LIEUTENANT'S WOMAN.
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I know that's the explanation for the plot. I get it. I just don't buy it. Not for a minute.<P>Von Sydow, The Warden, the entire Board, are all shown to have more importance than Dr. Gandhi. I don't believe the entire institution's manpower would be put into service for the benefit of a single patient, U.S, Marshall or not. <P>Of course, had there been insidiousness and a government conspiracy at work, it'd be a different thing. But the ending tells you - in no uncertain terms - that such is NOT the case.<P>The plot is propelled on suspicions that turn out to be contradicted at the end, rendering all our assertions invalid.<P> That's why it's a cheat.
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SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER <p><p><p>delusion, doesn't mean there isn't truth in it. There's archetypal/subconscious truth in everything he sees/envisions throughout. It just becomes more pronounced as his journey progresses. The idea of the cave itself is archetypal very prevalent in philosophy and psychology, dating back to Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Are we looking at shadows of the real thing, or the real thing? Even shadows take on a lot of characteristics of the ideal or actual.
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so you really dont know what to believe...at least i didnt..<P>and what of the rats??? what was their purpose?
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he has so few credits and this is a great one;)
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And, I'm not saying I'm wrong.<P>I'm saying that the ending makes fools of us both, and that's why I'm not a fan of the story. I am, however, mightily impressed by Scorsese and all's efforts.
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yeah i just thought it needed a warning at the beginning...
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in my future.
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but hes not the main draw for subs..
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of the cave scene in last week's LOST episode, actually. For those of you that care/watch, anyway.
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And they are plying him with psychotropic drugs and they have brandished him as insane and they will never let him leave.
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...most of the movie has a slightly hokey HARDY BOYS feel to it. It's intentional, because the whole thing is a combination of Leo's delusion and an elaborate therapeutic dinner theater put on by Ben Kingsley...OK, fine. But we're still left watching two hours of dinner theater.<P>Just because it's intentional doesn't make it right.
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It doesn't have to be 100% real. i just bought it and you didn't. And I think it does a very effective job of portraying psychosis, from my own experience.
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I also didn't buy into the part where he jabs Max with the syringe on his way to the lighthouse. Yeah..he is violent and one of their top guys is left alone to possibly get killed. All he had to do was jam that bad boy in his neck and rip it out. No more Max.
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another trial in Teddy/Andrew's self-imposed heroic narrative, and, in film language, I believe, they stand for the inherent evil/corruption oozing out of the island, at least in Teddy/Andrew's eyes. In another layer, they symbolize Teddy/Andrew's corruption becoming more apparent.
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the movie is around the dinner theater. Subs, could speak to this better having seen it twice.
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..."wow, that's cool...wow, that not...wow, that was great...wow, that was ridiculous...wow! Great scene...wow! That was just silly..."<P>All the silly or hokey stuff makes perfect sense in light of the conclusion, but you still have to sit through it...I don't think the end justifies the means.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 12:49 p.m. CST
...Stabby, it IS the movie...it takes up the bulk of screen...
by FlickaPoo
...time...I think that if the dinner theater is going to take up that much screen time, you have to make it work better for the audience.
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I wouldn't use the word "conspiracy." I'd use the word "argument." Dr. Gandhi represents the more enlightened, compassionate psychiatric method. Everything else, and everyone else, represents the old method, cruel and torturous, or a more medicinal approach. The problem is: THAT ARGUMENT IS NOT REAL. And, further, we're supposed to believe it's occurring in Dicaprio's mind! <P>At the end, the sun is shining. The yard is nice. Flowers are growing. The patients are smiling and walking around without chains. THAT IS THE REALITY. The beginning is the hallucination.<P> The methodological argument is mostly sub-text put there as the film's Red Herring.
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plausibility of the experiment. Almost. Then I think about the government-sponsored experiments with LSD, mind control and isolation chambers. Also, if Teddy/Andrew is allowed to completely indulge his fantasy of still being a working U.S. marshal, his violent tendencies would likely be reduced to a controllable amount as he sees himself, down to the suit and fedora, as someone doing his noble duty.
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anyone see it yet? Supposed to be really powerful. And being Irish it might be too much for me.
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Anybody ever see the Fairy Tale Theater stuff with the celebrities. Three Little Pigs had Furst, Billy Crystal, and Jeff Goldblum and I thought it was funny as all fuck. My little sister made me watch it all the time as kids and I never got tired of it. If you have kids (Flick I'm looking at you) and want something that won't make you wanna tear your eyes out, check this out.
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Irishman, I fear the same thing. Have you seen THE WIND THAT SHAKES THE BARLEY? It devastated me for days.
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Nope. I haven't seen that one, either. Lettuce know what you think of it, Stabbers.<P>(And, hey, you know already, but I want to make it clear - I'm not trying to force my interpretaion, RE: SHUTTER ISLAND. Your points are all valid. As you said, it worked better on you than it did on me. That's all.)
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...shiny new movies keep pushing it back...I'll have to check it out though. Fortunately there's time...my rodent is only 2.5
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...that arguing this movie with you guys makes me want to see it again...that's pretty cool.
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And it was heartbreaking. And I'll never be able the enjoy a good Black and Tan the way I used to before.
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...THE BARLEY was on my queue, but got lost in the shuffle of switching from Blockbuster to Netflix.<P>I had forgotten about it...thanks.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 12:58 p.m. CST
Note to self: Do not see WIND THAT SHAKES THE BARLEY.
by Subtitles_Off
Self enjoys Black & Tans too, too much.
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keep pedaling. see yalls later.
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Good stuff as a kid... Some were directed by Tim Burton and Coppola if I remember correctly...
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...anyone see it?
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You're "Bouncing." Do you know what that means? Are you Tigger?
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If you remember, I predicted you'd give it 2 1/2 stars last week.
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Can we assume the storm was all a delusion too?
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Was that Shelley Duvall's HBO thing? That was really good. I remeber Mick Jagger in "The Emperor & The Nightengale."
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...I think Asi should survive as a smart, witty, stubborn bouncing head...and when he guzzles Portuguese wine it just gushes right out his neck, making him always grumpy.
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I thought you were just picking on me because I usually rate things on the low side.<P>Anyway, I gave it an extra star more than you expected. I think it honestly earns it.
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Wal-Mart just bought it.
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As I said, that's the thing I consider to be a weakness that others might be okay with. Once the resolution calls everything in to doubt, you're free to pick and choose.<P>I'm on the side of the storm being an illusion. I'm also on the side of "Teddy's" never climbing down the side of the cliffs.
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I definitely did not have high expectations going in, even though it was Marty. I agree with Col., his best since Casino, which is another flawed near-great movie.
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built into more HD TVs and Blu Ray players. I had never heard of it before today.
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ISLAND that I've yet read was written the other day by Stabby. He called it a "speechless walk to the EXIT movie in many ways, even if you like it."<P>I wish I had thought of that.
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...bring up Plato's Cave and you've got my attention.
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censoring films the way they censor music cds?
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Although, I have to admit, I have to do some more reading up and give SHUTTER another go before I really articulate my argument. It's there, though.
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With you guys
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Some Guy & Some Other Guy<P>Yea or Nay?
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...[crickets]...
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[crickets]
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The flame prominently obscures part of each character's face, underscoring both the inherent unreality of the scene and its meaning/reference to the Platonic allegory. Not to mention the fact that fire plays a VERY important part in the narrative. In fact, SHUTTER ISLAND is a very elemental movie, and not just from a psychological perspective. Wind (hurricane), water, fire and earth (the island itself) all play significant roles. And there's a healthy dose of heart in there, too, for you Capt. Planet fans.
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After they pull back the curtain it can be assumed that it never stormed and he didn't descend the cliffs...did anything happen?? His onscreen convo with crazy in the third ward? Argh!
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James Cameron just announced his sequel to AVATAR will be called...<P>Flight of the NA'VI gator...<P>adiós para ahora
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...the cast...pit two Pedalbackers against each other to dance and bleed for our pleasure.
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reminds me a lot of my former logic/philosophy professor's take on NIGHT OF THE HUNTER, although your view isn't as extreme as his. He says NIGHT a bad movie, mostly because of the plot, but an excellent bad movie he revisits often because Laughton's aesthetic is so rich with meaning and archetype.
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Some Guy & The Other Guy. Because, frankly, how often are you and I, Flick, going to be able to see the same movie at the same time?
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is just wretched.
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Be back later this afternoon.
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Think we should do this more often...mainstream films that will be good and anyone will have a chance to see....still waiting for the opines of conti and Eff
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I'm on board for this thing.
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Good...and sore, tried reading as much of the PB as I could, you were never around then though. You did say that kkbb finally saw Avatar, what node/day was that? No idea what the 'Archives' are! How are things with you and Mrs.Poo and the Flickette?
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...have to duck out in a minute...the refrigerator repairman is on his way.<P>I don't think BangBang ever wrote up a real review...he/she got back late and wanted time to cook up a proper Ode to AVATAR...then disappeared again...
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What's shaking on this cold, windy Monday?
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Did you see SHUTTER ISLAND yet?
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...I'm living on wine (red, white requires chilling) and boiled shoe-leather.
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Anyone here seen the Bill Pullman/Bill Paxton mind fuck 'Brain Dead'? It sounds pretty similar to 'Shutter Island'.
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First I'm hearing of it. I'm intrigued.
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Even after reading all the spoilers, I think I'll still go see it for the visuals and the performances. <P> I might even wear my Scorsese shirt.
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But hey, lotsa wine on an empty stomach aint all bad, am I right?
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“Captain Subs…”<p>“Yes, Number One?”<p>“The last of the Ambassadors has bamfed aboard and we have been cleared for departure by Starbase 12.”<p>“Splendid Mr. Moose. Teddy, take us out of orbit…”<p>“With pleasure, Sir.” TedKordLives was the youngest member of the bridge crew of the USS Gary Oldman and this was his first time at the helmsman position. He was positively beaming as he punched and clicked the buttons on his control panel. <p>“Steady, Teddy,” Captain Subtitles Off cautioned the young man as he ran his hand across his freshly shaven head. Being bald DID lend him a commanding presence, he had finally decided. “Series 7, plot a course for the Misogyny system, warp 8.”<p>“Course plotted and entered into the nav-computer .” Capt. Subs knew the numbers would be right even without the Nav-computer. Series 7 was a super sophisticated android, after all. “Refresh rates are at optimum..”<p>“Engage…” ordered the Captain with his catch-phrase. Momentarily, the still picture of stars on the view screen began to move toward them with incredible speed …<p>As the bridge crew busied themselves with their assignments and the ship eased into warp, Anonymoose took his chair on the right hand of the captain’s careful not to let his wide spanning antlers hit anyone around him. <p>“You look troubled, Number One,” observed Subs. <p>“It’s just this mission, captain. How is the planet Nazareth important enough to the Pedalback Federation to send not one, but three Ambassadors? From all I’ve read, it’s a very backwards world in a very dangerous system. They‘re lacking in even the most basic of human decencies. ”<p>“Now, Moose, tolerance is the very thing that the Pedalback Federation and the AICN fleet were founded to spread throughout the galaxy…”<p>“But, Sir, they treat their women like objects and their objects like women on Nazareth.”<p>“Our new 10 Forward barkeep is originally from the Misogyny system, is she not?”<p>“That is correct, Sir,” Chimed in Series 7. “She was born on the planet Kobe.”<p>“Home of the marauding Space Ass Pirates,” added a deep growling voice from behind them. “Something else we need to be prepared for.” Mr Stabby , Chief of Security stood almost a foot taller than the rest of the crew.<p>“Not to worry, Number One. Even a backwards people like Mr. Stabby’s eventually came around to the Pedalback Prime Directive…Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations… I mean his people still graft blades onto their bodies and tattoo themselves head to toe. And, you know how I feel about tattoos.”<p>Stabby grumbled something under his breath but went back to his monitoring station. <p>“Apparently,” continued Captain Subs, “The Federation aren’t the only ones interested in the Misogyny system…One of the Ambassadors we are carrying is from the Baleback Empire.”<p>“Captain.” chimed the intercom.<p>“Subs, here. What is it Counselor Flickapoo?”<p>I think you need to get down here, Sir. We’re having problems with the Baleback Representative.”<p>“Problems, Counselor?”<p>“He keeps insisting that his quarters ‘do not exist in his Dojo‘.”<p>“I’m on my way, Mr. Stabby, with me, Moose you have the bridge….”
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First of all, Benicio Del Toro is the shit. How the hell did he channel Lon Fucking Cheney so well? The man may in fact be the Spider-Man villain known as the Chameleon. <P> Second, I LOVED Anthony Hopkins in this movie. He was in that mode where he'll say completly outrageous/important things in a perfectly off-hand, casual way. I love it when he does this (See:Bram Stoker's Dracula, The Edge). <P> Third, Emily Blunt is a beautiful woman. I'd like to thank Joe Johnston for the side-boob. <P> Fourth, "Hey Danny Elfman, shut the fuck up for a second." Jesus, man, sometimes silence is better for creating a mood. <P> Fifth, this is the most gratuitously gory mainstream film I've seen in quite a while, and that was greatly appreciated. <P> Overall: ★★★ (out of 5)
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But I'm fucking CHEKOV? <P>I know it's TNG, but I'm still Chekov.<P> Ah, as long as I have that mod Monkees haircut, I'm ok with it.
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Thanks for the WOLFMAN review, short form. I'll give it a go this week.
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Lt. Worf was always my favorite. i was worried I'd be Wesley. And I hope this is heading to the Holodeck at some point.
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since he's the Pedalback's unofficial Chief Science Officer.
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This being TNG and all.<P> Wait, Cheeses, did you know that the kid that played Wesley voiced Ted Kord on the Brave & the Bold? <P> Or is that the universe telling me, once again, that I was right in choosing Ted as my avatar?
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Short form's all I got time for at work, but then again I'm no Ebert over here; that's probably the best review you can get outta me.
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...is constantly getting "strong feelings" about things?<P>I'm getting a strong feeling that I have to go play with my boobs now...while making pouty faces at myself in the mirror...
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Whoopi Goldberg. She's not gonna like that.
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who am i in star trek? i wanna be barclay! <P>EffDub can also be ensign ro!
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Feb. 22, 2010, 2:50 p.m. CST
When Subs and Stabby arrived at the Ambassador’s quarters...
by Cheeses_of_Nazareth
they found Counselor Flickapoo arguing with a man in a solid white suit with a camera.<p>“Ah, Captain…”Flickapoo greeted them. “We can’t get the Ambassador to calm down.”<p>“I’ve never seen him act like this before,” added the man in the white suit.<p>“And you ARE?” Captain Subs asked the man.<p>The man handed Subs a business card but the Captain waited for a reply before looking at it. “I’m Vader, D. Vader, just like on the card…I’m the Documentation General of the Baleback Empire…It’s my job to follow the Kia everywhere he goes and record his every move for prosperity.” <p>Subs stared at the man like he were a bug. “Flick, what is upsetting the Ambassador?” <p>We don’t know, Sir…he just keeps yelling ’this does not exist in this Dojo‘, ‘that does not exist in this Dojo‘…I don’t even know what a dojo is…”<p>“Very Well,” Captain Subs acknowledged. “We’ll just have to ask him.” <p>The doors to the suite swished open and the large snake-man that was the Baleback representative was obviously agitated. The hood that flared out and surrounded his neck and face was fully expended and he slithered back and forth across the room nervously flicking his forked tongue… “This bed does not exist in this Dojo…” he was muttering. “This lamp…”<p>Ambassador Cobra--Kia? I am Captain Subtitles Off, welcome aboard the Oldman. I understand you aren’t happy with your quarters. I’ll have my people make whatever arrangements necessary for your comfort.”<p>“Comfort does not exist in this Dojo,” the snake man hissed. <p>Subs looke at Vader for help. “I’ve only seen him like this once,’ Vader told him. “When he thought there were invisible beings harassing him on Paranoid 6. I wonder…” Vader then stepped up to the Ambassador, “Mighty Kai, are you being haunted?” <p>The snake’s eyes locked onto Vader’s and he seemed to calm down a little.<p>Subs touched his communicator, “Mr. Six…I require your expertise on deck 27 room 213...<p>“On my way,” was the only reply.<p>“Mr. Ambassador,” Subs addressed the snakeman, “I understand the Baleback Empire has an interest in the Misogyny system. “<p>“Misogyny does not exist in this Dojo…” but he was a little calmer. <p>I have great respect for the Baleback Empire. Praise be to Bale.” Subs clasped his hands and bowed toward the Ambassador. <p>“Praise be to Bale,” he responded and bowed appropriately. <p>“You’re making progress, Captain,” encouraged Flick. “I sense him calming but still afraid.” <p>Then the doors whisked open and SixDemonBag stepped inside. “What can I do to help?” he asked. <p>Subs held up his hand to keep Sixes from entering any further. “Ambassador Kai, This is my Chief Engineer, SixDemonBag, he is also an accomplished Shaman among his people. I have asked him here to exorcise your room. Does he have your permission?”<p>The Snake man nodded his head and the crest around it fell slightly.<p>“Okay, Sixes, do your stuff…”<p>Sixes walked to the center of the room and Vader set up his holocamera. Sixes then cupped both hands around his mouth and in a horrifyingly loud voice screamed, “BITCHES LEAVE!!!” <p>Immeadiatly the Ambassador perceptively relaxed. “Thank you,” he offered, “Praise be to Bale.”<p>“Those ghosties shouldn’t bother you any more, sir. They are banished to my bag, which can hold a LOT more than just the six it’s name implies. Anything else I can do, cause if not I’m checking on why our refresh rates seem to be dropping the closer we get to Nazareth.”<p>That will be all, Commander Sixes…nice work.”<p>“Captain,” came the intercom. It was Moose. “I think you need to get up to the bridge…”<p>“Understood, on my way….I look forward to seeing you at the reception, Ambassador. You too, Mr. Vader” <p>Subs and Stabby left the room and head ed to the turbo lift…”What is it Moose?” <p>“I think you better see it for yourself..”
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fucking great!
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... my brain, this is so good.
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FunnyOrDie.com/m/3l7d
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and no, Teddy, about Wesley/Ted Kord...but that's just another case of Pedalback Syncronicity...
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http://tinyurl.com/yfscuyu
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'Sup homie?
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to mine: http://tinyurl.com/yb8w4tw <p>"But for all the immediacy and seemingly disposable pulp in its fiction, 'Shutter Island' requires multiple viewings to be fully realized as a work of art. Its process is more important than its story, its structure more important than the almost perfunctory plot twists it perpetrates. It's a thriller, a crime story and a tortured psychological parable about collective guilt. But in the end, "Shutter Island" is the cinematic equivalent of a Joseph Cornell box, a world of appropriated ingredients given new meaning through their combination and juxtaposition. It won't be a beloved movie. It will inspire doctoral dissertations. And while this news may not bring unbridled joy to the folks at Paramount Pictures, let them be consoled by the thought that it possesses a kind of obsessive perfection."
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But shit like that is EXACTLY why Ted Kord lives in my heart.<P>Too many things tell me that he's supposed to.
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I didn't see Sixies 'exorcism' coming at all.
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when you going to SI?
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http://tinyurl.com/yj3gx3b <P> These are real posts on real forums.
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I'm returning to my home state this weekend, and I may catch it there, but I'll prolly catch a matinee of SI the weekend after.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 3:48 p.m. CST
Whatever he thought he would see when he got to the bridge…
by Cheeses_of_Nazareth
Was nothing like the scene that greeted Captain Subs and Stabby when they exited the turbo lift. The entire crew were standing mesmerized by the scene on the view screen. <p>“DAFUCK?” was all the Captain could mutter. “What IS that?”<p>“Unknown, Sir,” answered Series 7. “Accessing ships logs to determine it’s nature.” <p>“It looks like an amoeba,” offered TedKordLives. <p>“That’s a pretty fackin’ big amoeba, ensign,” replied the Captain. “Moose?” <p>“Unknown, Captain. But, it measures 200 thousand parsecs. I have Dr. Morbius and Flickapoo on the way to the bridge.” <p>“Can we go around it?” Subs asked. <p>“Not without missing the summit on Nazareth by a week,” answered Series 7.<p>“Mr. Stabby, recommendations?”<p>“I recommend STABBING it…”<p>“Subtitles Off grinned, “Somehow I thought you might.”<p>the turbo lift doors opened and Dr morbius and Counselor Flick entered the bridge. “What magnification is that screen on?” asked the doctor . “’Cause that looks like a giant fackin’ amoeba.” <p>“Captain,” Flick said suddenly looking woozy and swaying. “I think it’s alive…and I’m sensing an intelligence…not much of one, to be sure, but an intelligence, none the less…it’s trying to speak thru me…it says it’s name is Dirk….”
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http://tinyurl.com/yed24lu
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BWAH-HAHA-HAHAHA!
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Yes.
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Hehehe.
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That animated clip is funny. Makes you wonder how an artist would interpret a day on The Pedalback.
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When did that happen?
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Haha! Nice writing Cheeses, a good mixture of the serious disciplined Starfleet Officers with the in-joking Pedalback vibe. Keep it going!
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Bullshit, or not? http://tinyurl.com/twotrigs
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I say bullshit, but stranger things have happened. She'd get away with it too.<P>"Yes, I have used a substitute stunt baby. I often have to have him photographed way past his bedtime, donchaknow. What kind of mother would I be, subjecting my child like that, as if he were a prop?"<P>"But, ex-Governor Quitter Palin, aren't you in fact using a child as a prop, regardless of whether it's your baby?"<P>"Regardless? Regardless? Are you implying that this baby is somehow better than my baby? Are you trying to say my baby's malformed ears are something he should be ashamed of? How dare you? I say how DARE you!"<P>"No, just pointing out that you are making a prop of a human being."<P>"Listen. I've paid well for the use of this substitute child, who in God's eyes, is a precious little miracle American, just like my own. In Obama's hopey-changey America, we couldn't afford to get our baby's ears fixed, and what could would that do my campaign, holding up a baby with ears that are gonna gross everybody out?"
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FACK®!
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http://tinyurl.com/yz3kena
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with the Quitta from Wasila. I really don't know. Nothing would surprise me.
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...is deserving of many a kidney punch. Maybe a few eye pokes as well.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 4:48 p.m. CST
Ok, I've been staying off of here because I wanted to write
by Continentalop
A review on SHUTTER ISLAND and not be influence by you guys. <p> So what did everyone think of it?
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What is required to sign in?
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And I see that Subs doesn't like NIGHT OF THE HUNTER. <P> I thought I knew you Subs.
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and stopped 3 parsecs away from the bizarre giant amoeba. It’s glowing cilia changed colors and writhed across the open vacuum of space. <p> “Counselor Flick, is this ’Dirk’ the cause of our rapidly decaying refresh rate?”<p>“I believe so, Captain. It is toying with us. I sense it means no harm, it is just…confused…” <p>“Number One, who is our resident expert on microscopic life forms?”<p>“That would be Lt. Calls, Sir,” Moose answered. “I’ve tried to get him on his communicator, but I keep getting the message that he is only taking Scorpio’s calls.”<p>“Scorpio? Who’s Scorpio?”<p>“Captain,” interjected Flick, “Lt. Calls is over due for his psyche evaluation and spends way to much time on the holodeck. I don’t know how much help he will be in his current state of mind…”<p>“Find him, Mr. Stabby, and have him brought immediately to the Bridge.”<p>“Aye Captain…” and with that the large man left to find the microbiologist.<p>“Can I speak to this Dirk, Flick?”<p>“Yes, it can hear you…It says hello.”<p>“Greetings, Dirk…We are …”<p>“Dirk knows who you are,” Flick’s eyes rolled back into his head and he acted possessed.<p>“We wish to know more about you,” Subs offered.<p>“I am Dirk the Amoeba. I must be the only one of my kind… I am lonely…”<p>“But, Dirk, no need for that…we count many unique beings among our number here on this ship…Series 7 is an android and my first officer is a genetically uplifted caribou from my home world of Earth. He is often very alone, but he has found friends, comrades among the Pedalback Federation…”<p>“I thought I was small, but I am very large…perspective is something new to me…”<p>Dr. Morbius turned to Moose. “This Dirk is either a giant amoeba with an inferiority complex or a tiny amoeba with delusions of grandeur.” Moose held a digitalized finger to his lip in effort to quiet the doctor. <p>“I heard that….and it has given me much to ponder…Be on your way,” and as suddenly as it had appeared, the giant amoeba disappeared leaving Counselor Flickapoo to drop onto the carpet. <p>“We should have taken Stabby’s advice,” Teddy said under his breath…<p>“What was that, ensign?”<p>“Nothing, Captain…I said you handled that real nice…”
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I say it's Scorsese's best since CASINO. My review is up above and posted at The Shelter in the RIGHT BRAIN CINEMA section.
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3 to 4.5 stars out of 5 is the average
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We are all friends here
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you have to be registered on Google (which you already are if you use any of the free aol-based e-mailers), but you can register anonymously if you want. When you request membership, just be sure to use your AICN handle, so we'll know it's you. Once approved, sign in to Google, click on the My groups link, update your profile and look for the posted message titles "READ ME FIRST." That should get you going.
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I have an exclusive Shutter Island review deal with them. I'll talk about the film, and even tell you what I thought of it. But the full review goes up there.
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I give it 3.5 out of 5. Kind of a compromised rating because it isn't a three or a four, so you can accuse me of playing it safe.
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This is my "review" of NIGHT OF THE HUNTER.<P>This 1955 film is often described as a masterpiece, an AFI best-ever. It introduced a singular villainous archetype in the diabolical false preacher, Harry Powell, played by Robert Mitchum. Still, as far as I'm concerned, the character, with his profane conversations with God and his exaggerated gestures, is a cartoon, far sillier than scary. A criminal chasing stolen money in the possession of a couple of creepy pre-teens, he's easily bested at nearly every turn, and, despite a proverbial dichotomy tattooed across the knuckles, about as complex as one of the irradiated monster mutations in any of the B-movies from the time. Everything in the film is painted in florid strokes, including intentionally fake sets, infuriatingly phony supporting characters and moody lighting. Consider the scene where Powell chases the cherubs up cellar steps, clutching at them like some kind of slapstick nosferatu. It's been cited as a classic of suspense. I found it "soda through the nose funny." There are a couple of undeniably remarkable scenes - the discovery of the siblings' mother's ultimate fate and Mitchum's relentless pursuit witnessed by the boy from the loft of a barn. Yet, the climax, from Lillian Gish's heavily shadowed standoff as God's good angel against the devil (diminished to whooping like a swamp bird) to a wildly inappropriate mobs-with-pitchforks riot, seemed to me like clumsy parody. Dated hokum.<P>★★☆☆☆ ⅔
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Nice to see you outside of Werewolves on the Moon for once.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 5:15 p.m. CST
I will definitely check it out when it's up at AIBN.
by ColonelFatheart
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The pettiness and patheticness of evil. To a young child, even the weakest villain is a monster.
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Pish! After we held off all weekend?<P>Golly.<P>I rated SHUTTER ISLAND the same, 'Lop. I guess I'll have to go over to AIBN to see if you can articulate my point of view better than I can myself.
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Trying to type up WHY I only gave it 3.5 stars. I just was so tempted to say "Because it felt like 3 and a half stars Damn it!"
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I've been doing this all day. I'm at this office working today and the door is opening so I am typing what I hear people say outside. Someone just called for this guy Danny. <p> I hope I didn't do that with my f'ing review.
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I'll check in later. And I'll get to your review when it's available, Conti. See ya, guys.
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Much fun, today, as usual.
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Very insightful stuff here.
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SPOLER to anyone who hasn't seen the film. <P> I read your review Colon-El, and I ask you and everyone else do you think the Nazi flashbacks are all fake memories? That they are constructed by Leo to help him deal with the killing of his wife? <P> I mean the dead jews could be his children, and the shot guards could be his wife. That makes the Nazi Commander Leo. <P> That's what I think.
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What did you decide to do about the fridge?
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...us the shits.<P>The coldifier fan had been slowly fading for the last couple of weeks...food wasn't spoiling, but it was giving us all...um, frequent irregularities...
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knocking on the doors of my complex...when they get here, what would be the funniest shit I could do to them???<p>I'm thinking of asking them in to help me sacrifice a goat...and have a beer..
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...at Jehovah's Witnesses.<P>The irony that my parents were technically missionaries too didn't seem to bother me one bit.
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I think it's all clearly, if not completely hallucinatory, at least, highly exaggerated. We know "Andrew" was at Dachau, so he saw horrible things, but the execution of SS and the piles of frozen corpses, are probably nightmare images he has created in his mind.
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There's a horrible joke that I could tell here, regarding your moniker and your fam's situation. <P> But for decency's sake, I will abstain.<P> Stain...hehehe.
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Makes no sense.
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You know what is interesting is that Dr. Cawley reads Leo's background and says "He may or may not have been involved in the liberation of Dachau." <p> Interesting...
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...'cause I want to hear it...
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isn't that execution sequence extraordinary?
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"You most certainly were at Dachau, but you may or not have killed any guards there."<P>Dammit! I saw the thing twice, and I thought I was paying real close attention the 2nd time. That's gonna haunt me now.
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How much tofu do you have in the house?
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Because of the CGI gunshots. I could have made those gunshots using plug-ins on my computer. <P> When I see a Scorsese movie I don't want to see anything that I could possible do. Unfair judgement yes, but it is the way I feel.
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..."stab it!"..."BITCHES LEAVE!"...<P>Like Ted, I can't believe I let that catch me off guard.
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I'll check out your review @aibn. Thought you were going to say 'Danny' was DGDB.
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I'm sure you could probably work it out for yourself, or at least find the ballpark.<P> But it's so gross that typing it out would make me feel dirty. And possibly diminish my esteem here at the Pedalback, if that's possible.
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SHUTTER ISLAND SPOILER ALERT! <P> I have faults with the movie, but the thing about it is all about Context. Like when Kingsley reads the transcript from his conversation with Haley and Leo interprets his words as meaning something else. <P> "You put me here..." <P> "He didn't mean it like that. He meant I got him sent there..."
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and say please come in...i'm guessing they won't.
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Can't be diminished.
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it's a wash. You will see subtleties and nuances the second time that you might have missed the first time. And because you already know the ending, you won't be as surprise-sexed by it the second time. You'll be able to judge it as it plays out without interference from your frustration.<P>However, on the other hand, second view also exaggerates the leaps in logic that I was trying to explain earlier. Makes the story even weaker. All the subtext has been contradicted.
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I think this movie is a strange contradiction, something that is very intricate and complex but also has some of the most preposterous explanations that are completely illogical. <P> It is like you have a really indepth movie with lots of subtext but you can't spend a lot of time thinking about it or else it falls apart.
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I wish I wrote that in my review.
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the sub-texts - things like paranoia, repressed guilt, conflicting psychiatric methodologies - are the best things about the theme, but all are rendered moot by a conclusion that contradicts them and turns them into Red Herrings to propel an absurd plot.
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Or the terrorists win.
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But SI is starting to sound more and more to me like After Hours, thematically speaking.
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As Arkham Asylum's origin story.
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You're crazy.
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I'm going to retract my After Hours comment on the basis that I may have to explain it, and also because I haven't actually SEEN 'Shutter Island'.
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After hours was nothing more than a fever dream brought on by anxiety from work
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So there.
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That statement is impossible to quantify. But there is a lot of paranoia and identity issues in After Hours. I don't know, I'm probably not qualified to speak to these things (See: My Wolfman Review).
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It takes me like 20 minutes to figure out what I am looking at with that ad up there.
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(I hate it when people do that.)
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two purple breasts on an Orion Slave Girl...
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You planning on seeing SI?
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I was thinking "am I looking some reptile girls weird purple tits or two olives or what" <P> I really should read the ad instead of just stare at it confused...
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Feb. 22, 2010, 6:25 p.m. CST
Pretty good, Conti. No complaints. You? Still on vacation?
by TedKordLives
I'm heading back to the home state this weekend, so I may see it with family. If not, it'll be a matinee next weekend. <P> Of course, I had the shit spoiled out of it today, but that was my decision.
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...ISLAND, the first conversation you need to have is...SPOILER...<P> ...OK, we have this story where 80% of what happens isn't technically real...it's either part of a delusion, or it's elaborate therapeutic theater for the sake of a mental patient...how do we make that seem artificial in retrospect, but not blatant and annoying as it is happens on-screen.<P>It's a difficult problem, but I don't think they managed to thread the needle.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 6:29 p.m. CST
STILL no fucking story about Mark Strong being cast as Sinestro
by D.Vader
... on AICN. Fucking amateurs. This goddamned news has been floating all over the web, I even emailed Harry, Quint, and Merrick about it, and STILL no story on the subject on the front page. <p> And they wonder why AICN is such a fucking laughing stock at this point. <p> Oy. Just needed to vent my frustration with my one time favorite website from the age 14 to 28.
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You figure prominently in one chapter so far...starts at 01:55:52 PM...
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I don't think threading the needle was their primary concern. I think Marty was trying to recreate psychosis in the audience, as silly as that might sound. "Teddy's" paranoia is supposed to be felt as opposed to intellectualized.<P>I don't think that diminishes your argument. In fact, maybe it strengthens your point of view. <P>I just think he was trying to visualize "crazy" without being too sign-posty about it.<P>Your point is that it all is hard-hammered.
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...we're the Cool News now.
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SPOILER to FLICKS SPOILER, SPOILING IT FOR SUBS. <P> To deviate from what you guys were saying, I don't Scorsese cared if you figured it out or not, because this movie isn't about a twist or even illusions. It is about DELUSIONS. About lying to yourself about what is really going on. <P> And to lie to yourself you have to know deep down what the truth is. That is why the movie felt so "false" and "obvious" at times, but Andrew choice to ignore those warning signs. The film is about how paranoia and self-loathing can make someone reject reality.
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I caught Gregg Araki's 'Smiley Face' last night, and thought he did a good job of visualizing what it's like to be really, really stoned. <P> And Anna Faris is hilarious in it as well.
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has moved on to bigger things. They are too important to be bothered with their silly, little one-time hobby.<P>Yet, things like Cinematic Shrimp, in my estimation, are the way to go. Turn this thing into a creative arts studio on the internet.<P>AICN will evolve into something else. It's not like we're going to miss any "news." Geek cinema advanced-info sites have popped up all over the place.
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More like I'm doing this part time. A mild but necessary diversion from work and home life once in awhile. <P> I work in the film business with a bunch of comic book fans and the only place I can come for real discussions is here or AIBN or Werewolves on the Moon. Sad really...
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The draw now is the TBs. They don't even have to try and do stories anymore. <P> All this place is a big empty buidling where people come to meet and talk. The "stories" are just an excuse for us to go to another room.
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To me, it's like Dr.Pym's Infinite Avengers Mansion over in 'Mighty Avengers'.
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Into the film earlier...giving it more ambiguity.<p> how did you like the ending ending conti?
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used that instead of "How'd you get so wet, baby?"<P>Jesus, did I get sick of that phrase. When Dr. Gandhi says it to begin the resolution exposition, I wanted to throw some shit.
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...that the artificiality of what happens on the island gives away the ending...I care that what happens on the island is irritatingly artificial. Artificial bordering on silly at times. I think that's a problem.<P>Like I said earlier, everyone in the theater kept laughing through the entire middle third of the movie, and while I hate to agree with the plebeians...they weren't always wrong. The artificial and dreamlike pace of events got comical after a while.
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and Cheeses story is off to a great start. "LEAVE BITCHES!"
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You inspired me man...Loved the ending of your Floaters tale...all action all the time...And Hair of the Dog...Great shout out...
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they had. He killed his wife, and beat the shit out of JEH for calling him by his real name. What else did he actually do though? In the end they act like the lobotomy is the last resort for him as a "hard case". He wasn't like Bronson or anything. Seemed like the doctors were taking the easy way out with him. He relapses and thinks he is back on the case. Lets say the doctors give up on him and he just "becomes" Ted and everyone calls him Ted. So what? He is just one more wack job on an island full of wackos. NEW POLICY PEOPLE! Call Andrew, "Ted". All better.
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I don't know the context, but it's hard to imagine a scene where that line doesn't inspire SOME giggles.<P> Then again, I'm not Martin Scorsese (tho I do have a t-shirt with his picture on it).
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According to Geoff Johns who went down to New Orleans to visit the production offices. There's your Cool News. Its not Jackie Earl Haley, its not Hugo Weaving, its Mark Strong.
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Howany times did they use it? I only it heard it once by gandhi
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I was gonna make him medusa and JettL the Kracken but then I put 2 and 2 together and it made sense. My 2 favorite parts at teh end were my bullshit explaination and then my character says, "Makes sense." and then when we all sit down in the road facing away from each other. I'm loving your stuff so far Cheeses.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 7:19 p.m. CST
...SPOILER Mac, I was wondering that too. He's supposed...
by FlickaPoo
...to be THE MOST DANGEROUS PATIENT EVER, but "all he did" was shoot his wife after she drowned their three kids. You're telling me that in a world of serial-killers, rapists, and serial-killer-rapist-cannibals he's the worst of the worst?<P>Crazy aside, he'd probably be out in five years today. They'd probably get him aggravated manslaughter.
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Bruce Willis tells MTV that M.Night is still thinking about Unbreakable 2, and he's down for it if Sam Jackson is. <P> Man, I hope that comes together.
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I think "Sheehan" even says it to "Teddy" at some point.
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...don't toy with me man...my heart isn't unbreakable.
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his first time seeing her with the burning back, Gandhi, the actual flashback in its proper context and then I think maybe they set up the gandhi scene just before with it. no less than 3 times though.
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I think you're correct, truth be admitted. I think some of us can be accused of cutting Martin slack because he's Martin. I said earlier today, the same film from M. Night, with the same beats, would probably have gotten laughed out of theaters.
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Naw, it's suit-and-glasses Scorsese. <P> It's kinda stylized, so it's got people guessing everyone from Ralph Nader to George Romero. If they guess Romero I allow them to labor under that misconception.
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If he doesn't get sick and doesn't "break" wouldn't that slow his aging process as well? Sorry to naysay right off the bat but...lets just leave well enough alone.
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I was thinking that too...he had to have had a screw loose or went nuts at work and pulled a memento...looking for his wifes killer or fire bbug when there wasn't one...
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...DUE TO NORMAL BONE CALCIUM LOSS, BUT STILL BREAK-RESISTANT.<P>I don't know, it could be kinda cool if he aged normally...but was just impervious to trauma and illness or something.<P>I'd give it a shot.
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I suppose it acts as a sort of profiling device. After their guess you have a good idea of the kind of person your dealing with. gotta get me one of them shirts.
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They can digitally de-age him a few years. Since the FX budget on the movie should be slim-to-none, it shouldn't be a big problem.
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Just let everyone else in as callers. If you wanna express an opinion post RING RING and then Some Guy can say, "Lets go to Conol_El in Ireland. Hi Colon." after he posts come back with, "Thanks for the call Colon. Keep listening."
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in Unbreakable 2: Still not broken.
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...in Austin."<P>Ted: "Hi Some Guys, long time reader, first time poster..."
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Mac, that's using yer noodle! Great idea!
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Even though I have no interest in seeing Shutter Island, but maybe if these are gonna be pre-arrainged in the future, the Pedalback Cave could be used to organize the two narratives prior to presentation on the pedalback proper...Make it a thread only you two can enter or something, if you want it to be secret or open if you want all imput, then after it is posted open it up for callers...<p>Gets rid of the time delay and gives you both a chance to make funny before hand...<p>Also, I think any two pedalbackers who agree to see the same movie in the same opening weekend should get to play...Just my 2 cent's worth...
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About Westerns.
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...Cheeses. And occasionally we should peer-pressure two unlikely candidates to dance and bleed for our pleasure...get people out of their normal element and genre.
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"Hi Some Guys. Love the show. What I hated about that stupid fucking movie is that it sucked Howard Sterns balls. BABBA BOOEY! BABBA BOOEY!"
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SPOILERS <P> I did like the ending when Leo says "I wonder what would be worse: living as a monster or dying a good man?" <P> I thought that was a great line to be honest.
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RE: Most dangerous Person. I couldn't by Leo as the most dangerous guy, but I could buy someone saying that about his character. <P> He might have only killed his wife, but since then he has snapped. He is a trained (soldier and marshal) who believes he is completely justified to use force to get to the truth. The only reason he hasn't killed anyone else is because he is locked up. <P> Serial killers are pussies. They target the weak. Rapist target women. Serial killer-rapist cannibals have to kill someone before they can rape and eat them. <P> This guy is a KILLER. He won't back down (as Max Von Sydow pointed out) and can't be intimidated. Fuck he was ready to fight a man who said he would bite his eyeball off. <P> So yeah, I can see him being called the most dangerous patient. The other guys are mostly dangers to themselves, but when he is in fantasy land he is a danger to everyone. <P> OF course that raises the question: WHO FUCKING OKAYED THE ROLE-PLAYING SESSION. <P> "Ok. so we are going to give our most dangerous patients free reign on the island..."
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Here is the link: <P> http://tinyurl.com/y9s2ops
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Feb. 22, 2010, 8:02 p.m. CST
Action Comics #1 sells for...ONE Million Dollars...
by Cheeses_of_Nazareth
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100223/ap_on_en_ot/us_superman_first_issue<p>And Dr. Evil laughs hysterically...
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SPOILER SPOILER Andrew would be considered the most dangerous patient. Throw in the fact that he actually sees himself as a noble enforcer of the law, and that's a volatile cocktail. This is also, paradoxically, why the role-playing works. He sees himself as a good guy doing the right thing.
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Someone really wanted to read it....I have a reprint...
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...it's interesting, I think you can see the movie struggling with all this stuff. I get the feeling they tried to split the difference by showing him mow down all the Nazis in the unreliable flashback.<P>It seems as though the movie is struggling to show his lack of balance as a character, and his potential for violence...but not so much that no one would ever consider giving him the run of the island in the first place.<P>You can feel the work going on just below the surface...trying to hold the story together...
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Feb. 22, 2010, 8:08 p.m. CST
And Conti, to answer your earlier question about the
by ColonelFatheart
Dachau sequence. SPOILER: I do believe they were embellished by Teddy/Andrew. There's a fantastical quality to the whole thing, particularly the papers flying through the air and the CGI gunshots, which you said you didn't like. I didn't mind it, and I don't think Scorsese minded the touch of unreality there, either. <p>Another thing about the Dachau scene, when Andrew/Teddy is looking at the dying commandant on the ground, there's a strange cocktail of emotions in his eyes. Hatred, yes. Revulsion, sure. But there's also pity and guilt. So, yeah, he probably does empathize with the commandant.
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SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER Yes, but he views himself as the noble enforcer of the law...facing a conspiracy of people the law can't touch. It is a very dangerous mix. <P> Plus, to add to the evidence of his dangerous, Max von Sydow calls him a "Man of VIolence". Sure he might not be Violent, but he can get violent and has no problem being violent. A dangerous condition when dealing with a man who is delusional.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 8:09 p.m. CST
Ha Sixes...Me too, and it wasn't all that great...
by Cheeses_of_Nazareth
like a page or two only...<p>I bet it was Jerry Seinfeld who bought it...He's the only multi-million dollar Superman Fan I know...except maybe Nicolas Cage...didn't he name his kid Kal-El???
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not to register @ Google or is having difficulty with it.
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I'm glad I know what I'm in for when I go see this. I really don't like it when a movie purports to be about one thing but ends up being something else. It's trickery and I don't like it. <P> So instead of walking out angry, I'll have a chance to piece the together the 'real' movie as it unflods.
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SPOILER: But he might empathize with the commandant because that is really himself. <P> OR...I have to watch the movie again because I wonder was the Commadant in the same pose as his wife after he shot her and she fell back?
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scrotal-shaped. HA!
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Likewise to Subs, Flick, Colonelman and all of the others who posted their reviews...<p>Nothing I read made me want to see it, except for the Arkam Asylem comparisons... Is it really just a Batman Foe Arcade?
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I don't think Nic Cage could afford the latest issue of Action Comics right now, let alone the first.
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I just wish I stole some of the things Subs, Flick and the Kryptonian Proctologist wrote. My review would have been a lot better. <P> I actually do recommend the film though. I think it is one of those films with enough going on that it makes it interesting viewing. It is a character study disguised as a genre flick. I just don't think it is overly successful, but successful enough.
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I'm bettin' Seinfeld...Article said the buyer already had one copy at at least $3OO Thousand...
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Teddy passes Cobblepot and Poison Ivy on his way to the asylum for the first time. Ivy looks fairly rotten, as if she's been kept out of the sun.<P>Dr. Gandhi = Hugo Strange<P>von Sydow = Mr. Freeze<P>The escaped patient "Teddy" subdues is Zsasz<P>The imagined "Andrew" is Two-Face<P>The "Law of 4" note was left by The Riddler<P>There oughta be a Scarecrow in there somewhere
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He had a copy of Action #1.
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For some reason I seem him as Crane/Scarecrow. Sure he is older, but still the guy seems like a totally cold-blooded asshole who likes to scare things.
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And Crazy Guy #1 with the foul mouth could be Johnathan Crane, since Teddy asks him "What was she afraid of? She was afraid of you!"
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He let out a loud "Shit" because there goes any cnahce of them shooting a Batman movie that takes place exclusively in Arkham Asylum. No way you can match the creepiness of this place.
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As a kid, I once neglected to pay 5 bucks for a coverless Avengers #4 at a podunk flea market. I'm still kicking myself over that one. But the point is, even if I got rich someday, that copy would be all I needed.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 8:26 p.m. CST
There has to be a way we can all edit one document...
by Cheeses_of_Nazareth
isn't there? I mean this what 2010? How can we not have a Pedalback Concensus review, combining the best observations from each of us edited into a cohesive representation of the 5 Star rating average...?<p>It would really help people on the Movie Box Office Success Stock Market the Colonel told us about earlier...<p>I don't know about you guys, but I could stand making a few bucks off our combined handicapping...
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...clarifies my understanding of the movie immensely. Either by sharpening my argument...or expanding my argument by incorporating the ideas of people I agree with...or softening my position as a result of persuasive opposition.<P>If I had to write a review, I think I'd have to hash it out here first...just to get my thoughts straight.
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At least.
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SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER<P> SPOILER
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and go with the over on 66%...<p>Sorry, Subs, old buddy, but the Price is Right...
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Because I think its getting good word of mouth. The old people might start showing up next weekend.
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what "Law of 4" is about?<P>Two pairs of anagrams with different letters hardly convinces me of any "Law of 4." Does it have something to do with three dead kids and a dead wife?
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There was powerful storm. Power is lost. Ward C(?) has escaped mental patients with violent backgrounds running wild. Time to shut our little game down maybe? Maybe? No...I don't buy that it was part of the treatment. They let Leo go into the Ward and "capture" loose patients resulting in him beating the shit out of another patient. Good luck explaining that to the board of directors.<p>I feel like I am tearing this film apart. Let me re-state that I really enjoyed this movie.
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Sixies was right, it was misleading marketing.
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I thought the Law of 4 Was only about the four anagrams. That was it. <P> I think the bad psychological clues was one of the biggest weaknesses in the film. Batman foes can be that ridiculously rational, but real nuts don't make anagram rules for people to figure out. That is just...silly.
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The role-play thing is a terrible explanation. It's inconceivable that such an experiment would be conducted for one, relatively unimportant patient, risking the safety and treatment of 66 others. And, remember, I think all the dark asylum imagery is all in his head anyway.<P>It's a maguffin used to propel the plot of a ridiculous, illogical story.
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I had just watched The Fisher King so I had some hardcore standards for asylums and the mentally ill going into this. To be perfectly honest I think a mentally ill person is potentially one of the most frightening things in the world(realisticly). I was never really scared by anything in this movie.
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Been fun as always.
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There are two related anagrams and two separate related anagrams. That's "The Law of Pairs."
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SPOOOOILEEERS: <P> But the film is a mix of completely absurd b-movie pulp fiction and serious, complex personal psychology and detective work. It has a little bit of a mishmash problem. <P> SILENCE OF THE LAMBS successful combined the Pulp Elements with a serious, intelligent policer. This one isn't quite as successful (but WAAAAAY better than fucking HANNIBAL).
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four people in his mind.
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...regardless of whether such an experiment WOULD be conducted, I really don't see how it COULD be conducted. Too many variables to control. It doesn't have to be really possible, but his has to at least feel right.<P>I haven't seen it in a long time, so I could be wrong, but I remember a similar scenario feeling more plausible at the end of Fincher's THE GAME...when they have that big surprise/catharsis party at the end...and you see hundreds or thousands of people involved in the elaborate deception.
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SPOILERS <P> To see if you can make each anagram by changing only four letters or some shit like that.
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"The Law of 4. I love that part."<P>You really think that's all there is to it?
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I thought the GAME was even more implausible. But I am not a fan of that movie. <P> At least SHUTTER ISLAND didn't try to pretend that they could predict Leo's every move. <P> Just that they would let a dangerous mad man loose on an island...
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was imaginary...<P>i think everything that got OVERexplained was imaginary..like teddy was trying to justify it..<P>like in the beginning when he said his wife died in a fire..BUT IT WAS THE SMOKE THAT KILLED HER..he made it a point to say that...<P>im sayinng the storm didnt happen..it was in his head to give him more of a heor complex and that this old civil war fort wasnt there...hell the whole island couldve been a delusion...<P>i said that when the film started to my father in law..SO THERES THIS BIG ASS ISLAND OFF BOSTON?<P>it couldve been an institution in the country for all me know...<P>marty kept his cards very close..lars yes.
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If this is all supposed to be part of some big elaborate role-playing game....where are the 20-sided dice?
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Feb. 22, 2010, 8:45 p.m. CST
I don't know. Maybe it's another one of those ambiguities.
by ColonelFatheart
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Talk to y'all later.
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...it's genuinely terrifying...and up until that point he was just a cute, eccentric little homeless guy.
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SPOILERS (got to keep remember to do that so people know)) <P> Is that this is in some ways the most critic proof movie yet. It is like the episode of the Simpsons with Xena where she just says "Wizard did it." <P> "You know, it makes no sense that they would let him wander the island.." <P> "He imagined it."
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A popular writer of garbage who becomes the go-to author for film adaptations.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 8:50 p.m. CST
You know what would really have helped me in this film?
by Continentalop
SPOILERS <P> If Leo wasn't an actual Marshal. He was just some fucking accountant who killed his wife and now was living his life as a hero because in the real world he failed at everything.
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Again, watch out for...
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...since it first came out. I like to think I'm a little smarter now.<P>Or at least more experienced.
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Show Teddy escape on the ferry and then cut quickly to a lobotoed Andy being wheeled into an empty room.<P>Then everything becomes ambiguous. What's real and what's imagined?<P>That woulda slayed me.
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SPOILERS <P> That at the end of the film Leo never acknowledges he is insane or that he killed his wife. That we are left wondering "Is Leo nuts" or "Man, they HAVE set him up to take the fall." <P> I love fucking ambiguity...
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the hospital isn't as scary as it's made out to be...maaaaybe. This is all relevant to the tone/reality of the story we are being told. We have to assume as fact that this asylum is for the most dangerous of the mentally ill. If this is the case then there are tremendously disturbed people in there. This is where the problem lies in the movies ability to sell me on the story. There would be raving deranged psychos. Leo is the most violent? I'm sorry...I can't buy this based on the movie I saw. Unpredictable? Maybe. I also just saw Bronson. Totally unpredictable prisoner/patient. Kept sedated at all times. Certain rules were broken in SI when it comes to violent prisoners and the movie suffers because of it.
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Otherwise, I want the explanation to be air-tight.
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I think if he was an accountant there wouldn't be a justification for the role play would there? That would just enforce his delusions more
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Plus, you know what? An ambiguous ending is really the "Safest" ending. Now we are left with two completely opposing narratives. We can chose to accept one or the other or even both. It gives you a lot more room to fit the story into.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 8:58 p.m. CST
Anybody remember this from last week? Only a day's worth of air
by Cheeses_of_Nazareth
http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20100222/US.Plane.Crash.Pilot/
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if Scorsese was involved in optioning this novel, or was he more of a "hired" hand?
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But if you have him never leave his delusion and acknowledge what happens, then we are left wondering WAS he just an accountant who was delusional, or was he a federal marshal they suckered and have now eliminated? <P>
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...broke him, he would never really know...and we would never really know.<P>I was much more interested in the dangerous subjectivity of our own identity and perceptions. We need outside verification from the world and other people to confirm who we are and what is real.<P>The whole suppressed memory thing is sorta played out and cliche at this point.
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Hired Hand. Or got involved because of Leo.
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MAYBE SPOILERS (I'm not done writing yet) <P> So far we have had this much talk about it. We have broken this movie and continue to examine it and see both a lot of good and a lot of flaws. <P> No imagine if they had spent just a little more effort on the script and story? Fuck. We would be talking about this and examining this like a bunch of Rabbinical students looking over the Torah.
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I don't mean to sound inhuman, but keep your fingers crossed.
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...about the dangerous subjectivity of our own identity and perceptions? <P> Videodrome.
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...his heart hidden away?<P>He isn't truly dead until we destroy it.
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evil monks, readying the glass jar in which they are going to pickle his brain in order to preserve it for placement into the skull of a future Republican Prez.
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Had they not made his partner the doctor it wouldve been more ambiguous...did they just mindfuck a federal marshal into taking the fall...did they just make him crazy...that would have been congruous to what cave woman said about being labeled crazy...all your actions will enforce the accusation
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I need to see that and The Warriors again real soon...<p>Wierd TV effects and bizzarre storyline...
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...intentionally do to crack detainees. Induce altered states through stress, sleep deprivation, hunger, and worse...remove all sensory input except what we want them to have...introduce unreliable allies and antagonists...<P>But I guess that's been done too...
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Are destroyed...I almost got one but I was outbid on eBay...
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And like I said before, because we are talking so much about this film I know it is good...just not great. Which it could have been, Which is so infuriating.
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Good night, everybody.<P>Special shout out to Some Other Guy. I think our pilot was good enough to get picked up for syndication.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 9:18 p.m. CST
I get the impression Satan isn't in any hurry...
by Cheeses_of_Nazareth
to let Dick Chenney into Hell...and seriously, with Hitler, Suddam Hussein already there, who needs th competition...
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Yeah I love Videodrome. I once saw James Woods in a Mel's Dinner once and yelled "Long live the new flesh!" at him. <P> I think he smiled.
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Feb. 22, 2010, 9:20 p.m. CST
i think marty was a hired hand and then leo got attached
by Six Demon Bag
thats how it works in the quote business unquote..
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Subs, if Lehane is the new King, then SI is THE SHINING.
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God, I love that movie.
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...watch out for Some Other Badguys.
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See you gents. And remember, the battle for the mind of North America will be fought in the video arena.
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G'night for real this time.
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its the Fairy Tale Theater of my Netflix que.
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Pirates of Caribbean 4 will have Ian McShane as Blackbeard. More cool news that AICN doesn't report. I could fucking run this site, jeebus.
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I saw someone mention that in the Justified/Crazies TB. thought they were bullshitting. That is COOL news. Love me some Swigen.
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I'd love it if, true to history, we got a glimpse of the Carolina coast where Blackbeard liked to hang out. Sadly, though, I don't think it'll happen.
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With McShane in this... a pirate might actually beat a ninja someday.
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bundle up boys...tis snow in the forecast for manana!!!!<P>and im out...gonna dream of greedo's breasts<P>now THATS a handle.
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...I hate waking up to a cold seat.
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will be revaled thursday. there u go aicn give me my check lol
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Sweet dreams everybody...
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This is no small boast, since i'm an atheist. Movies are my only gods, and i know they aren't.
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Long live the new flesh!
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No "enhanced interrogation techniques" necessary. This news is what probably sent ol' Dickless Cheney to the ER last night.
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bring the snow on!!!!
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Commuting will be a pleasure, I'm sure. See you chaps in a little bit.
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i think i might win the lottery tonight too<P>and the snow...<P>this is the best day ever! ever!
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http://tinyurl.com/yfemgls
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Nice, Cheeses!
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Not that cold in my part of the country, but then again in i live in the south. The northenr part is suffering from extreme snowy weather. Still, for what i'm accostumed, this winter is just too fucking cold. I'm build for war weather, not cold. It's the moor in me, i guess (those who know anything about the history of medieval Iberia, or saw EL CID, will understand).
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AVATAR is helping bringing the whole people of mankind together. Cameron with a movie is doing more then most politicians combined.
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Feb. 23, 2010, 9:33 a.m. CST
...Asi, were they set up for 3-D in your neck of the world?...
by FlickaPoo
...I bet I had to travel further in New Jersey to find a decent 3-D theater...
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Does anyone else finds Greedo's eyes oddly appealing in a sexuall way? Me, too!
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February 22nd, 2010...<P> @ Node #44023...Mac's "Floaters" concludes with the reunited Pedalback releasing something from their bag o' tricks to "head" off an enormous challenge...Diox would like to collabo on a sci-fi script and begins his "Subject 6." Unfortunately, no one else can join in because none of The Peebers are much knowledgable about "Stargate," but that shouldn't discourage Diox from his creativity...Some Olympic teams play hockey. The excitement! The inspiration! The thrill! OOO ESS AY, OOO ESS AY, signed the communicative ape...☆☆ BEATLES OF THE DAY ☆☆.™ (http://tinyurl.com/yaer3xu) George was the first to quit The Beatles. He returned, but he had reached the limit of his patience...We BAMF!, but we don't BAMF! far. One Node North...<P> @ Node #44024...Sixies exorcises the thread with a hearty "Bitches leave!" shortly after 10 A.M....The debut episode of Some Guy & Some Other Guy @ The Movies premieres, with The Guys having a spoiler-filled discussion about Martin Scorsese's SHUTTER ISLAND...The Guys agree, it's a well-made but ultimately frustrating movie...Parts of it improve with a second view, and other parts do not...The Common Rabble at Some Other Guy's screening started laughing at the movie-ish silliness, after awhile...Stabby and Sixies liked it better than either of The Guys...Some Other Guy compares the movie to one of the interactive adventure books for children. You know the ones: "If you'd like to save the princess and slay the dragon, turn to page 14. If you'd like to just stuff the gold in your pocket and mumble 'Fuck it, let Miss Screamy Bodice save herself," turn to page 24"...Some Guy liked the iota of graceful ambiguity at the very end of the wretched ending and wishes there was more of that in the movie...Stabby should've written the screenplay because Stabby has a much better ending in mind...On a 5-star rating system, Some Guy rates it ★★★ ½. Col. thinks it's masterful and rates it ★★★★ ½..."The Law of 4" is, really, "The Law of 2+2," which makes it a confusing Law...Some Other Guy rates it ★★★. Mac gives it ★★★★, but he's gonna knock it down half-a-star later. Sixies gives it ★★★★, and he's gonna stick to it. Stabby, who seems to favor it nearly as much as Col., rates it ★★★ ½ because he's a strict grader...THE NINTH CONFIGURATION is a similarly plotted film as is SHOCK CORRIDOR, according to some...Flick compares it to MAGUS, a novel by John Fowles...Box Office Futures Trading Exchange will allow capitalists to wager on films' earnings...THE WIND THAT SHAKES THE BARLEY is so heartbreaking it's affected Stabby's enjoyment of a pint o' Black & Tan...Walmart now owns an online movie service. Streaming all those Cable Guy and Tyler Perry movies since 2010...Col. gets deep into SHUTTER ISLAND's Jungian psychology...Future Some Guy & Some Other Guy installments will feature other Peebers as The Guys...DrMorbius might take shelter...Teddy's gonna wear his Scorsese tee-shirt when he sees SHUTTER ISLAND...Cheeses begins "The Pedalback: The Next Generation" (http://tinyurl.com/y8p8xnk) ...Teddy liked THE WOLFMAN...'moose recycles a song about recycling that is so old, it was made when Charlie Daniels was well-known (FunnyOrDie.com/m/3l7d), and shares an animation based on actual posts taken off the web (http://tinyurl.com/yj3gx3b) ...Sarah Palin may have two prop babies - the real one and a more photogenic spare (http://tinyurl.com/twotrigs) ...'Lop basically agrees with The Guys and gives SHUTTER ISLAND ★★★ ½, but his stars are fist-shaped and property of AIBN (http://tinyurl.com/y9s2ops) ...I didn't like THE NIGHT OF THE HUNTER, and I'll tell you why...6:51:18. Or, the terrorists win...Batman villains who make cameos in SHUTTER ISLAND include, Penguin, Poison Ivy, Scarecrow, Hugo Strange, Two-Face, Zsasz and Mr. Freeze...Vades does AICN's work for them, announcing the casting of Mark Strong as "Sinestro" in the GREEN LANTERN movie, as well as Ian McShane's casting, as "Blackbeard," in PIRATES OF THE CARIBBE4N...UNBREAKABLE 2?...A copy of Action Comic #1 sells for a million bucks, doubling the record payment made for a comic book just days ago for a copy of Detective #27...'Lop says VIDEODROME is "the best film...about the dangerous subjectivity of our own identity and perceptions"...Dick Cheney's heart is once again trying to reject the rest of his body...
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I didn't need to travel futher then 2 kilometers to find AVATAR projected in 3-D. I didn't even left the county (yes, i mean county, not country, i know the difference between the two). Believe it or not, but most of Europe is quite a very urban place.
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... as i'm from China.
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Is SHOCK CORRIDOR meets SPELLBOUND.
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I haven't seen any of those, so I'm out of the loop.
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And Waitress if she's around.
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He doesn't think Betty White can host "SNL" by herself, so he's going to prop her up with Tina Fey.<P>
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Something shiny may have distracted her in another thread.
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yeah i heard about the SNL thingy..<P>to make matters worse--justin beiber is host/musical guest..da fuckers 15!
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Not.<P>That kid's been in the public eye since, when, December? And already they're gonna be poking him with lame sexual innuendo on "SNL?"
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if your grandpa were an embarrassing hipster trying to be cool when your friends were in the house.
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... a mental head-fuck of a movie. And for the evangelical thigh-ass fundamentalist motherfuckers, it was a complete ass-fuck. As it should.
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My bad.
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But, spoiler-filled.
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Conti, do you like THE NINTH CONFIGURATION? I love it until the very, very end. The showdown in the bar gives me chills.
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helps break a GOP filibuster on a $15 billion Democratic jobs bill. Wingnuts turn on him. LOLZ. http://tinyurl.com/ye89muy
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in every way does not give you rights to disporridge my home county. And, yes I mean country.
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I like THE NINTH CONFIGURATION a lot. Yes, it is a flawed movie, but any movie that calls God "Foot" gets a lot of points with me. <p> And SPOILERS the climax in the bar is just awesome. It feels like an eternity of Stacy Keach just humiliating himself, until finally he reaches up and grabs that bikers hand (Drago wasn't it) and you see the look in Keach's eyes and you know he has reverted back into Killer Kane. And he's going to shoe these men of violence was true violence is. <p> I might have to watch that again.
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Feb. 23, 2010, 11:06 a.m. CST
Asimov_Lives, Portuguese cuisine and wines are better...
by AsimovLives
... and that's what really matters on a daily basis.
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Gents is what people in UK call the public bathrooms. They also call the toilets as "bogs".
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I meant Show. I hate working. It is very distracting.
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Then again, I can't say I've ever eaten authentic Spanish food, either.<P>Everything I think of as Spanish-influenced is probably Tex-Mex.
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they were tasty AND authentic...my waiter dressed as Goofy told me so...
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It's all imitation-authentic. says so right on the label. <P>Even the animals on the safari aren't "wild" at Disney World.
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Come on, Asimov, you half to agree with me at least on the France part?!
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Again, I'm getting chills thinking about it.
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But there is a holocaust denial museum.
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Scott Brown gets elected, says he'll try to bring about a new air of bipartisanship in Washington, something all the *intelligent* folks want, bc we know that's how things will get done, when we work together to solve problems instead of demonizing the other side. <p> So he does what he said he'd do- voted on what he thought was right, didn't shun the other side's ideas simply bc they were "the other side", and what happens? <p> His dumb fuck followers turn on him. The most telling and most hilarious comment on his Facebook page, I thought, was this one: "I thought you were going to LEAD, not follow!!!" <p> Not follow who? Republicans? Blind adherence to his party? Doesn't that qualify as "following" you stupid nutjob? Doesn't bucking the trend amongst your peers qualify as leading? Morons.
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USA!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!!
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Feb. 23, 2010, 11:21 a.m. CST
I knew Scott Brown was going to end up being a thorn,
by Subtitles_Off
uh, sorta. He's from Massachusetts after all.
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backwards they say the holocaust never occurred.
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Sort of Spoilers. <P> I think the end would have been better if he just flipped out and killed Kingsley when he tried to tell him what was wrong with him. Maybe after killing Kingsley would he realize that he was the fucked up one. Like Raffalo doesn't try to be his buddy anymore and is just pissed at him.
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Anyone seen Hunger?
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and Brazilian heritage.
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Have you ever seen VICE SQUAD?
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if Hitler and Disney had gotten their way.
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You know maybe as an 18 year old i would have thought Politicains doing shit with facebook would have been cool. Now I'm like....fucking grow the fuck up.
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are basically all stupid people. Or just really smart people who are evil, devious and/or nihilistic. Dick Cheney, for instance. I love the one guy/gal complaining about Brown because he voted for a bill that would build highways (Improving our infrastructure?!? How Socialist!) while giving people jobs (Money in the pocket of middle-class consumers?!? How is that supposed to help the economy?) doing that work.
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You are bringing a smile to my face this morning.
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What's it about, other than the obvious?
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...I went to school in Florida and mostly worked at restaurants during the school year. One of my favorite overheard conversations involved this well dressed group of Shiny Happy People earnestly discussing their recent trip to Disney World...<P>A woman in the group went on and on about how "marvelous" it all was, and repeated several times that Epcot was "exactly like traveling all around the world...but without the risk!".<P>Every repetition of the phrase was met with much agreement and sage nodding.
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...no, but I've seen RAVENOUS.
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http://tinyurl.com/yesgbfx
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Yeah I think they are pretty much the same movie.
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No, swarthy unwashed barbarians. Disney's vision of the world is better than reality. i know. I live in Europa.
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i love disney world and EPCOT...its a joyous little place to visit and hang out for a while..it makes me feel young again...<P>i went when 3 times when i was young...and i spent my honeymoon there...i would have to say the best week of my life.
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The rest of the world then deal with a giant mass of Americans.
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That's exactly what Uncle Walt was going for, I believe. Appealing to Middle America by offering them an alternative to the swarthy hordes.
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was the 80s hairband Europe and even that sucked it!
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They've been poisoned with so many lies and half-truths, they don't know what real politics are, they don't know what the role of the government really is, they don't know that the things they think they are protesting against are things that actually help them and support them, things that always *have* helped them, and no one complains. <p> Stupid teabaggers. As much as they talk about change, they really just want everyone to vote straight Republican. <p> I guess we should ALWAYS vote against highway projects bc they're not "permanent jobs" and what the hell good is a highway anyway?
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...I just couldn't find any breasts to consent with me.<P>Eventually I figured out how to consent myself...with a little help from the ever consenting woman's underwear section of the Sears Catalog.
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I look forward to taking my kid/kids (when I have them). Future Mrs. Colon-El, though, keeps trying to be sneaky and works it in as a possible honeymoon destination. Fuck that, I'm either going to Europe or a fucking island with blue water and unlimited fruity cocktails.
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If you go to Morocco land and go back behind the tall, winding buildings into the back alley, so that the buildings block out the rest of the sights and sounds of the park... you can imagine that you really are in Morocco. And if you're over 21 you can eat in their awesome restaurant and get drunk. Good times!
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Like how is anyone suppose to give a shit what you say. Someone tell those old fuckers what teabagging is for fucks sake. I don't want my children exposed to teabagging, hey Daily Show...do the bit.
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It is the epitome of a sub-genre of crime films that I call "Sleaze Thrillers" that came out in the 80s inspired by TAXI DRIVER and HARDCORE. THE EXTERMINATOR, ANGEL and TEN TO MIDNIGHT are all other examples of the genre. Unlike those films, however, VICE SQUAD is great. <p> I don't know why but suddenly thought "Man, the Colonel has got to see VICE SQUAD."
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Feb. 23, 2010, 11:42 a.m. CST
For anyone who refuses to believe there is a strain
by ColonelFatheart
of fascistic puritanism running through the modern wingnut movement that gets so much reverential treatment by our "liberal" media, just look at this: http://tinyurl.com/yjkymf7
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...was the one about Republicans having managed to take a sex act involving dipping your testicles into another person's mouth...and turn it into something dirty, and ridiculous.
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Yes, the NY Times, apparently: http://tinyurl.com/yjjehal <p>"But it is also about the profound private transformation of people like Mrs. Stout, people who not long ago were not especially interested in politics, yet now say they are bracing for tyranny." What? How can the Times ennoble these wackos with such tripe?
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HA! Flick!
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The overwhelming majority of dumb pple that think they're smart. The people that think Glenn Beck is really intelligent and want him to run for office.
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Good instincts, sir.
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Tell them the government is stealing your money, wants to take your guns, and is planning a tyrannical, communist style takeover of the country where you'll have no freedoms. <p> Tell them that and they'll believe whatever other bullshit you have to say. Obama wasn't born in the country? His middle name is Huessein? He's obviously a terrorist who wants the US to fall! Because he doesn't care about his children!
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God my thing with that is, even if it is just some money scheme in the end....what if they are correct? Was driving a giant truck really worth it? And how is anti green energy people any different sort of money grab then green products? <P> Also speaking of trucks, why are they the most bought car in America? Probably only 30% of truck owners use their truck on a daily basis. Most people only need a truck like once or twice a year.
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polls. As if finding 100 stupid people to voice their malformed opinion on any issue makes for some kind of usable information.
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That way they'll be alright when they plow into a sedan.
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Even if global warming and climate change are hyped or some grand conspiracy (I believe both are happening, though), how can it be good to continue wasting resources while creating poison that clearly harms people and animals? How can these teabagging nutcases not even embrace fighting pollution out of general HUMANITY?
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Democratically. Its all about ratings so he's got better material if their is a democrate in the office. I bet really Beck doesn't give a shit one way or another.
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And never understood them. Why the fuck do you want a pickup truck? You live in the suburbs. You don't haul hay or tools or farm equipment. <p> You're just a teenager. Why the hell do you want a stupid pickup truck?
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All of those myths about Democrats and liberals have been prevalent for years. What's compelled them to such fervor is that THE PRESIDENT IS BLACK. That, folks, is the elephant in the room.
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Feb. 23, 2010, 11:59 a.m. CST
And once we run out of these natural resources that give jobs...
by D.Vader
... all the people are going to bitch and complain that the government never did anything to get ready for the next big green energy source. <p> And never mind that green energy development will create jobs.
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is that Republicans are aligning themselves with it. Like that's not going to bite them in the ass. Sure, FOX News has told the Teabaggers that Obama is to blame for the ills of the nation. Everyone knows it's the efforts of the Neo-cons that got us to where we are today.<P>That stupid woman who is angry in that article because her son has lost his job? She's an idiot if she doesn't realize who's to blame.
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Trucks when I need to get over. Fuck them. I'm so low to the ground I can't even see if they flip me the bird.
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Feb. 23, 2010, 12:04 p.m. CST
Pickup trucks also seemed to be the ones that ran red lights...
by D.Vader
The most. If a light turned red, and someone ran it, I guarantee you it was a pickup truck 9 times out of 10. It was ridiculous around here.
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The President wants reform. Corporate interests do not want reform because it will curtail their profit margins. The Teabaggers are too stupid to realize their strings are being pulled by the same people who will be advantaged by keeping them down.<P>It's just a rerun of history, over and over, on an endless loop. We hate the rich! We want to be the rich! We hate the rich! We want to be the rich!
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This teabag rage will turn into some short-lived gain for the GOP, and they will pick up a bunch of seats in Congress, but it'll blow up in their faces as the teabaggers grow more and more emboldened and the Repugs will be painted into a new corner with a seething gaggle of racists, flat-earthers, know-nothings, militias and suicide-bombing anti-tax terrorists.
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Feb. 23, 2010, 12:06 p.m. CST
Country music stars all drive trucks. Trucks are manly.
by Subtitles_Off
Trucks get it done.
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It means having to reason with stupid people.
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http://tinyurl.com/yco6a9n
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That will allow for what, exactly? It will allow them to sit there and try to make The President look stupid. And what will be accomplished? Will The Teabaggers be better off in five years than they are now? I'm sure between now and then we will have identified some other brown nation we can bomb to make ourselves feel good about our shit.
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...said Kendall Powell, the CEO of General Mills®
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they still drink polluted water.<P>Oh, yeah, let's emulate China.
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"In New Mexico, Mary Johnson, recording secretary of the Las Cruces Tea Party steering committee, described why she fears the government. She pointed out how much easier it is since Sept. 11 for the government to tap telephones and scour e-mail, bank accounts and library records. “Twenty years ago that would have been a paranoid statement,” Ms. Johnson said. “It’s not anymore.”" <p> Yes, thank the fucking REPUBLICANS YOU ELECTED INTO OFFICE YOU DUMB SHITS.
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Not their stances because I think they are wrong, but their rational. This isn't about issues, this is about status and position on the American pecking order. They are no different from the Al Sharpton followers or a lot of anarchist, anti-war activist. Sure their causes are different but their motives. <p> Do you think Sharpton's followers are about justice and racial equality? No, they are about legal preferences for themselves and moving up the pecking order where they are on top. And the anti-war anarchist, if you told him peaceful protest and being respectful to the opposing side would be more effective in stopping a war, do you think he would put down the Molotov coocktail? No, because it isn't about the best way in stopping a war, it's the best way to hate pro war people and show them up. <p> I completely disagree with the teabaggers stance, but I understand why they are acting that way: they are a bunch of scared people who feel like they are sliding down the pecking order and feeling disenfranchised, and it can't be the Americ they invested so much into's fault, it has to be the not true America's fault.
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"Let them eat Cake-Os®, a high-fiber multi-vitamin part of your daily balanced breakfast!"
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Once we started shipping jobs overseas to fill the pockets of corporate fatcats, Americans lost jobs. Do the teabaggers remember this? <p> Chinese steel will be in demand? What happened to American steel? Oh yeah, that's right...
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They're stupid, but they can't help it because they're stupid.<P>The real information is available to them. Put down the badly spelled sign, go to the public library - a government program, BTW - and read a merfering book, you dumbass.
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I feel a kinship with them on a certain level. Unfortunately, they should have been protesting during the Bush years. <p>
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OHHH NO!!! NOT MY LIBRARY RECORD! Seriously, who the fuck goes to a library anymore? Especially if you live near a college town you can just walk in and read anything you really need or make copies of shit...if your really that paranoid.
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Feb. 23, 2010, 12:21 p.m. CST
I'm no fan of the anarchists, Sharpton followers or
by ColonelFatheart
many types of anti-war protesters, either. But I still support their right to protest as long as they avoid violence or property destruction. I support the teabaggers' right to protest, too, and I would defend the Illinois Nazis' right to protest if I were a lawyer. (Even though I hate Illinois Nazis.) But it's when a group begins indulging in or celebrating violent behavior that gets me, Conti. The teabaggers openly embrace the idea of "watering the tea of liberty with blood" and they've made a folk hero out of a suicide bombing terrorist just because he targeted the IRS. <p>Furthermore, the Sharpton followers, "anarchists" and Cindy Sheehan's Code Pink protesters are often treated as silly sideshows by the mainstream media. But the teabaggers are a "movement."
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As whites continue to have to accept the influences of non-white immigrants in the U.S., and simultaneously watch the decline of their childrens' standard of living, they will continue to bitch and moan about The Real America. You know, the one that has never, ever existed.
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but yet you do not understand that the Medical Insurance Companies and Big Pharma are funding your movement? Why do they not understand that the primary problem with government is it has been co-opted by corporate power? I don't understand how you can be anti-government, but pro-corporate. At least the government is held accountable to the people. Corporations have only their self-interests at heart. Corporations being treated as citizens with all the rights as such is a huge problem and the founding fathers never intended this.
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Actually know the facts or are just there because it just happens to be their tribe? Just because some people are on the right side of an issue doesn't make them smart, it's because that is where they landed.
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Seriously. You've seen photos of these people, right? Right?<P>These are not individuals who should have any influence on the progress of the nation. They chose to give up on progress when they chose to stop brushing their teeth.
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I just made a call to the hot line, consider your library records....SCOURED!
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"At Liberty Lake, the participants settled on a “big tent” strategy, with each group supporting the others in the coalition they called Friends for Liberty. <p> One local group represented at Liberty Lake was Arm in Arm, which aims to organize neighborhoods for possible civil strife by stockpiling food and survival gear, and forming armed neighborhood groups. <p> Also represented was Oath Keepers, whose members call themselves “guardians of the Republic.” Oath Keepers recruits military and law enforcement officials who are asked to disobey orders the group deems unconstitutional. These include orders to conduct warrantless searches, arrest Americans as unlawful enemy combatants or force civilians into “any form of detention camps.”"<p> You know they'd have no problem with this if it was a Muslim.
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Feb. 23, 2010, 12:26 p.m. CST
Just look at the coverage of CPAC over the weekend.
by ColonelFatheart
It was a sideshow, a freak show, even. You got Stephen Baldwin up on stage calling Obama "homey." Glenn Beck, a TV host with a cartoon persona, on stage leading the "movement." Dick Cheney greeted as if he were Abraham Lincoln, all because he decided that the presidency should be a ruthless monarchy, even though the teabaggers purport to support "democracy" and "freedom." And yet the media treated it as some kind of prestigious event somehow above analysis.
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...picture books, history books, novels, and literary lesbian erotica.
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Feb. 23, 2010, 12:29 p.m. CST
There's a reason the Founding Fathers came up with this system..
by D.Vader
The Fouding Fathers, whom the Tea Party followers claim to hold near and dear to their heart, there's a reason they came up with this system of democratically electing officials... <p> Its because they know the "people" are too stupid and too uneducated to be allowed to vote for everything. That's why we elect smarter people to do the right thing. <p> If we didn't, then I seriously doubt slavery and civil rights would have come to pass when they did. <p>I'm sure the Tea Baggers don't think about that, though.
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of history books?
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Feb. 23, 2010, 12:31 p.m. CST
Having accurate information isn't about "where you landed."
by Subtitles_Off
It's about educating yourself.<P>People who are entrenched in a point-of-view based on inaccurate information are not engaged in some sort of honorable exchange for the public good.<P>You're jealous of smart people? Try becoming one.
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Can support Dick Cheney. You're a fucking idiot and a hypocrite to boot if you do.
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Yep, that sounds like Dick Cheney's wet dream.
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And I liked it on an aesthetic level. It is artistically shot and edited, but there is very little story to it. For half the movie there is almost no dialog and then boom there is a 30 minute conversation between the IRA leader and an Irish Priest, who is also an activist. This scene is largely a single long shot of the two actors and the acting is superb. Then the film returns to it's nearly exclusively visual storytelling after a seemingly endless long take of a guard sweeping urine down a corridor which acts as a transition. The movie is more about the experience of the imprisoned IRA members than it is about politics or anything else for that matter including plot. Steve McQueen definitely has a great cinematic eye and would probably make an oscar calibre DP if not a great director. Either way i look forward to his next film, but I cannot universally recommend Hunger due to it's bleak, cinema verite, minimalist style of storytelling.
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They just know what they're "against." They don't understand it, but they KNOW it.
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The Anti-War movement in the 60s led to the SLA, Black Panther party led to fringe movements that were violent. The left in the late 60s and 70s truly thought you needed a violent revolution. <p> I'm not defending the Teabaggers stance, or even their actions, but that it is a natural reaction for people who feel they are slipping down the pecking order and wanting to maintain there preferential treatment. <p> They are like the Al Sharpton supporters chanting "No justice, no peace." What they meant was "No justice for US as we see it, no peace for YOU."
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He did say he hated political discussions. He'll probably like at least 2/3s of Hunger.
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Feb. 23, 2010, 12:37 p.m. CST
i dont understand how anyone who makes less than $50K
by Six Demon Bag
can be a republican..
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The mechanic said he just needed his oil checked.
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They're idiots. All she has to do is a little song and dance for them, and they'll elect her, not realizing she's playing them like a 2-bit fiddle.
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Just trying to do work and keep up. I agree with what you say about the movie totally. I think I liked it better then you though. I mean he wanted to put you there in the prison. I am really looking forward to his next work, that was a strong first film. I reviewed it over here if you care: <P> http://tinyurl.com/ydy3fvl <P> I mainly can't believe how more people haven't seen it or are talking about it.
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the SLA and The Black Panthers. Those were fringe groups of radicals. In fact, "the Anti-War movement" wasn't an organized movement at all. It was a natural reaction to television coverage of the war, propped up by an increase in the number of young people going to college and accentuated with groovy music.
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Feb. 23, 2010, 12:41 p.m. CST
Subs do you think everyone who voted for Obama is smart?
by Continentalop
Our do you think there are some dumb people who voted for Obama as well? And because they are dumb they should have no say on what worries them and scares them, even if the can't articulate it?
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even among the large majority of African Americans. Not really sure... No it is an apt analogy. my bad.
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the teabaggers are protesting the tax hikes they are getting...<P>less than 2% realize that taxes actually went DOWN..<P>if you're gonna protest, try to know what youre talking about...<P>otherwise your are uninformed puppets that will be herded around whenever the GOP of FOX need a picture of the "masses"
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the masses are asses.
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"They just know what they're "against." They don't understand it, but they KNOW it."
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for such a minimalist movie with no plot that hour and a half flew by. I think it was due to the brilliant visual style. And when that scene with the priest came I was riveted to the edge of my seat. Luckily I've been to Ireland so i could understand most of which was said through the thick brogues. I'd give it *** out of 5 stars. Definitely worth watching for every PedalBacker.
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The rightwing movement led to the organized Teabagger movement, which led to violent groups, just like the Civil rights movement led to the Black Panthers which led to violent groups.
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people vote for strange reasons..i voted for him cause he was black...but im white...<P>it doesnt make sense..<P>but ask these clowns out there what they are doing and why they are doing...i promise you a blank stare will be your answer.
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are dumb, I'll say many of the people who voted for Obama were dumb. Many others were justing voting against his opponent. And many believe in Obama's abilities.<P>You know who I think are the dumbest? The ones who voted for Obama and now would vote against him because they blame him for lack of progress instead of those that should be blamed: Corporate interests, media, Congress and their own impatience.<P>Look, it's very honorable to defend the rights of the uninformed to remain uninformed. It's nice not to condemn the feelings of others. But, personally, I don't want emotional influence on the progress of the nation I live in. I want an informed populace to demand progressive government.
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...people my parent's age figured out how to use fucking Facebook.<P>End of story.
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They're a show put on by FOX. There were only 10,000 people at CPAC. There are more at a poorly attended Monster Truck rally.
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Learning is hard, inconvenient and sometimes scary. That's too much for a lot of people, liberal or conservative. And so, because of this aversion to learning, we're rewriting textbooks to play up Christianity, cast doubt on provable science and recast history as we see fit. It's true that history is written by the winners; ours is being written by morons and dishonest, sleazy, Orwellian hacks.
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Yeah Stabby. This film will get more and more play and viewing in coming years.
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...Baby Boomers just figured out they're going to die some day. <P>The new knowledge makes them feel anxious...and they have to blame somebody.
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They are both flabbergasted by Teabaggers. Can't believe this is where we have ended up in our progress as a nation. My mom is a life-long Republican who is "sickened" by The Right Wing. And my dad is a life-long Democrat.<P>And, about FOX news, they are in complete, unshakable agreement.
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all those C- students who, inspired by the last President, think it's time for them to be running things. It's Revenge of The Slow Class.
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...etc...they get from friends and colleagues. Educated religious people. People I've met. People I would have called nice people. <P>Fucking appalling.
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Democrat *who always distrusted hippies.*
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My parents confessed to me that they pared down their Christmas Card List this past holiday due to all the "nutty" e-mails they were getting from some people.<P>HA!
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Way to make me crack up at work, Subs! You're dead on again. Who were the leaders in the Slow Class? Those farting, obnoxious, loudmouth football players whose job was just to hit people on special teams.
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Feb. 23, 2010, 1:04 p.m. CST
...I'm telling you, the internet hit my parent's generation...
by FlickaPoo
...like smallpox hit Native Americans. They have no natural defenses, no immunity...they believe everything they read.
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It becomes "Fucking appealing!"
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but didn't bother to google teabagging. doesn't that sum up the whole group right there. idiots. hey everybody. no movies today huh?
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...model citizens.
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I do NOT think smart people are BETTER than under-educated people.<P>They are, however, better than people who choose to remain dumb.
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Fucking BADASS. <p>http://tinyurl.com/yddtsgh
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Who saw Crazy Heart? I was looking at show times and realized there was nothing else I haven't/wanted to see. I think moose said it was great. He's not here though.
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CRAZY HEART, that is. It's a character study, though. Don't be expecting anything more than that.
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I just saw it and liked it and wanted to share. All this political talk distracted me! I was supposed to be at the gym 2 hours ago!
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I fell asleep on the bowl last night.
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Typing about politics for more than an hour at a time is like taking a spin in a gerbil wheel anyway.
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Yes, please.
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...of the bowl looked as though it had been shot with a sawed-off ass-cannon.
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especially Bridges. I can't say the same about Maggie Gyl though. She annoys me. How about her Subs? good? Do you just wanna smash a guitar over her head through half the the movie?
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i'll be stealing that one for use in the "real world".
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The new Oldsmobiles are in early this year!
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Best I've ever seen her. Depends, I guess, on what annoys you about her. I mean, she is what she is.<P>The thing I liked about it is it doesn't unnecessarily dramatize alcoholism. The crisis isn't an overblown fate of the world, and the struggle to overcome it isn't depicted with the same cliched scenes of the drunk sweating in bed imagining giant spiders. It's a well-acted mid-life crisis picture, like THE WRESTLER, without all the ugliness that THE WRESTLER stylized to make it look all hero-y.
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I've used my own sawed-off ass-cannon in the real world, countless times.<P>Need more fiber!
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I go by the Obama philosophy, "respect those who disagree with you." Asi goes by the "disrespect those you disagree with you." Which tactic works better? <p> I mean what do you get out of insulting and demonizing them? You know you are right, so you can afford to be strong be respectful of them and then maybe then try to reason with them. But if you call them idiots and nuts, who's going to listen. They are going to close themselves off, even if you have a good point. <p> Plus if you disparage them and question their intelligence they'll get more defensive and stuck on their point. Or get defensive. Saying that the Founding Fathers were a bunch of elitist, true or not, doesn't win points - it just goes to confirm that they have no future in your version of America. You might as well mention the Founding Fathers were white and male to get blacks and women nervous about their place. <p> And if you refuse to listen to them, you might not notice that they have a point or a reason for their stance. Asi would say you are a moron and have bad taste, but maybe if he listened he could understand why you like STINO or maybe find out why you are mistaken about it and change your mind if he is respectful of your intelligence. <p> But if you are respectful and accepting you can change people's minds. A fist fist hitting ice is going to hurt, and the ice has only managed to hurt the fist not transfer part of itself to the hand. But a fist hitting water is going to be enveloped by the water and surround it, and even when pulled out the hand will be wet. <p> Asi has good points about movies, but his disrespectful manner and insults doesn't change Antibes opinion. The discussions never become about the movies but about each others intelligence. And if your goal is to really get Hollywood and people to want smarter movies, is your tactic of insulting people's intelligence and saying they don't have valid points working? Or is it making people more adamant in their position. <p> The entire point of debate and discussion is to convince the other side you are right. You can't do that if they feel that you don't respect them. <p> Abe Lincoln once gave a speech where he said we have to reach across and become friends with the South. An old woman said the South were a bunch of traitors and enemies who must be destroyed. "Why Madame," Lincoln replied, "do I not destroy my enemy when I make him my friend."
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let me ask you this...would it be inappropriate for me to sneak a flask into the theater and get sloshed while watching it?
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...New York Magazine all the time talking about her coolio Brooklyn lifestyle.<P>I suppose it's my fault for flipping through New York Magazine.
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In this, she's just playing a natural single mother. It's a more convincing fit for her than "sex kitten."
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your average Teabagger merits respect.<P>Frankly, I don't care if they crawl away. They've had their thirty years helming the ship, and they crashed us into an iceberg.<P>I was serious when I voted for change. I'm not going to be happy seeing change derailed by a group that refuses to do any serious homework. It's like holding the start of the game because the fan-bus is still loading back at the Away School.
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...sure, he has a couple crazy danger zones, but they're well marked with police tape.<P>I know the areas of Portugal to avoid...and I think the rest of the country is well worth it.
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Sergio Leone movie. It mixed European and American themes with hints of wisdom from the Orient.
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You're expecting me to embrace the Teabaggers in case they might have a point hidden away in their pea-brains?<P>When they start respecting The President - one of the things they've repeatedly asked of me in the past - maybe I'll revisit this whole "respect" thing.
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What's wrong with New York Magazine? Last week they had a great article on the various Oscar campaigns.
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America's fucked, and we all know it.<P> There you go, done in one.
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...yeah, we're reduced to date night, but our date night is probably freakier than your hookup...<P>Unless you're Conti. <P> I've heard stories.
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bobble-heads for some thirty years now. Why wouldn't they be motivated, even against their better natures, to fight fire with fire?
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...that was a great article, wasn't it? And I like their relatively short and pithy political stuff too.
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Yeah, I've been ignoring that magazine for months, but once I cracked one open I realized there's actually some pretty sharp writing in there.
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of calling Conservatives names.<P>Then we'll all be ven.<P>Nonny-nonny-boo-boo, infinity.
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Ven is a diagram.
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To be respectful and open-minded. Only someone truly comfortable and confident in his position can listen to the opposing side without resorting to insults. And that confidence in position is contagious. It sells his idea better than any argument.<p> That is one of the reasons I think the teabag movement has been so small despite the efforts of Fox and the GOP to push it - Obama refuses to react to them and continues to be respectful (but not a pushover as his meeting with Republicans showed). <p> Plus I refuse to hate fellow Americans just because they are scared and acting stupid. All my hate is reserved for Canada.
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re-reading the top of this thread...Danny Elfman's score is the worst thing about THE WOLFMAN? Really?
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Feb. 23, 2010, 1:50 p.m. CST
It might be a sign of moral strength. Check that, it IS.
by Subtitles_Off
But, the past fifty years of American history disprove open-minded respectfulness as a political strength. There is no reason to do anything with the Tea Party "movement" other than ridicule it out of existence.
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why should i be accepting and open minded of a group that has pictures of our current president with a hitler moustache on placards?<P>i read an article in the alt paper here about a guy making tee shirts with said pic and he really didnt understand the iconography and looked totally stoopid..
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I was afraid you saw the video. <p> In my defense the room was cold...
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...John and Elisabeth Edwards?<P>Holy shit.
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Or maybe it's yet to arrive here.
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...debut of the fingernail story...way back when.
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If Elfman's score ain't the worst thing about The Wolfman, it's damn close. I mean, it's fucking omnipresent. It never goes away. It's as if Elfman was being paid by the note.
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tactic. Obama's doing it with the GOP now. You want us to post our health care reform online for 72 hours of review/discussion? Here you go. By the way, where's yours? You want to debate health care reform on live TV? Let's do it. Oh, you think it's a stunt now ... hmmm. <p>But you're never going to get a kumbaya moment with the fringe, left or right. Obama knows he can't come to an understanding with the teabaggers. They exist to oppose him. That's what they do. Once they begin to reconcile with Obama they cease to be teabaggers.
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Is it as shitty there as it is here?
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...crazy shit. Supposedly, the biggest secret of the Edwards campaign was that Elisabeth is a raging psycho bitch...and Edwards was warned repeatedly about the affair but was too stupid or too blinded by fame to listen.<P>And his aides were plotting a coup...because they couldn't risk having their douche-bag boss become president...
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with something that refuses to compromise?