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‘Time To Talk!!’ LOST 6.4!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
Carlton Cuse just twittered he's working on the third draft of 6.15.
ABC says of tonight’s installment, “The Substitute”:
Locke goes in search of help to further his cause. Guest starring are L. Scott Caldwell as Rose, Katey Sagal as Helen, Billy Ray Gallion as Randy, Suzanne Krull as Lynn Karnoff, Kenton Duty as teenage boy, Eddie L. Cavett as courier and Joshua Smith as school kid. "The Substitute" was written by Elizabeth Sarnoff & Melinda Hsu Taylor and directed by Tucker Gates.
9 p.m. Tuesday. ABC.
Follow Herc on Twitter!!
The second season of “The Sarah Connor Chronicles,” $44.99 last month, is momentarily $16.99!!
$4.99 DVD!!
$9.99 Blu-ray!!
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Of course
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After six years of cockteasing, when we finally get your pants off there had better not be a penis.
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...is a penis. Now that would fuck with everyone's head, figuratively and literally.
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...we've never seen Claire in a bikini.
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YEAH!
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Anybody got a theory on why we can hear the clicking sounds of Ol' Smokey coming from Locke's adding machine in 'Walkabout'? Does the Monster have some sort of tallying function?
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The show is dead, they don't know what the hell they are doing. Each episode moves soooooo achingly slow that the only thing it compares to is the soap "Young and the Restless". I mean... walking down a path and having 3 conversations sucks up an entire episode. Sawyer is angry at Jack, Jack is suspicious of someone, Kate loves Jack, Kate loves Sawyer, Locke acts mysterious. A fart is smelled! The cast realizes that there is no point to all this crap and they have stopped caring. It's retarded. NOTHING HAPPENS! *sigh*
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No way, I was so overjoyed last week when there was absolutely no Locke and all we got was the misadventures of Kate's confused vagina. MORE OF THAT SHIT PLZ WRITERS, FUCK THIS SMOKE MONSTER AND ANSWERING YEARS OF QUESTIONS NONSENSE.
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So what's burning? The Shroud of Jughead perhaps?
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Hey.. maybe the Lost producers will take a page out of the movie producers manual if a final episode cannot be agreed on. REBOOT.
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..all the vaguely cool stuff in the promo happened in the last minute of the episode and we learned nothing, I then broke my tv I was so angry, and when I screamed 'FILLER!' Cuse and Lindelof turned up to beat me up. But I promptly kicked their asses and started Jack Bauering them for show answers, but they died before I learned anything.
Was a weird dream, I think it means I really want some mysteries answered, or maybe I have issues with my father or something.... -
But this is LOST ..so everything is upside down and reversed. Oh some junk will be revealed, but on the Sepatown, tipi tais.
Just wait until Hurley pulls his pants down.. Libby will be very surprised.
Did ya know on the original recording of "The Crying Game" ..Jimmy Page played guitar.
..and der kinder all say Jimmy Who? -
..fairly sure that most dead people seen are either the actual people or smokey in disguise, either way why did bald dave try and get hurley to kill himself?? If it was Dave, why is he such a dick and if it was smokey why didn't he just yemi style beat him to death.
Not sure why he is but I think Hurley is the only true variable in this equation. Jacob touched and made everyone come to the island, but Hurley got a choice in the matter.
Desmond would seem to be the wildcard, everyone would like his help but can essentially do whatever the hell he wants.
My outside theory is everyone will choose to fight for smokey or jacob, with both trying to get as many friendlies on their side as possible to convince hurley to listen to them, him being the only one with actual choice in the fate of the island, except he will actually choose to side with Desmond (to hell with the island and all its mystic crap), finishing all the island shinnanigans.
as for the island shinnanigans themselves, well, as long as 'god did it' isnt the answer I'll be happy.
when starbuck disappeared, did her fancy white viper go too? God damn that ending pissed me off, I'm still bitter, and caprica is pretentious bullshit. -
Desmond was Constant
Faraday was Variable
Substitute is, Locke???
Would it be too much to hope for a return of Faraday and Desmond?
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The island is the playing board. The lostaways and the others are the checker pieces.
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Mentioned to some, past... That in 5.14 'The Variable' when Daniel is conferred DPhil at Oxford... their traditional academicals, their full dress gown is the combined Blue and Red of so common occurrence in the clothing of LOSTies. And now the temple folk. The colors, just like those in Flags have meaning.
I don't think it is so easy as being a hat-tip to Star Trek, Boone's red-shirt assertion aside. Or simply Home and Away, Friendly and OppFor. Rather, I feature than in the end, when this show is watched back, the color codes can be identified as pieces being 'claimed' by certain forces...at certain times. And due note specific color reversals coupled to character actions as well as certain ...progressions
Blue and Red. specifically. I conjure will be seen as indicating that a particular character, game piece or pawn in the larger game is acting out of direction of free-will or fate, nurture or nature, decision or destiny in the course of action they are undertaking. And, also an indication that the character's actions in the larger game are in play and of import. Sometimes, both forces and colors are at work.
Which is why now, I feature James resembles Desmond in Island attire soon coming. Same such progression.. The symbolism of him removing the Tan, neutral color, Dharma jumpsuit. awesome.
Think there are are more than those two action codes and forces as well. Sayid in Black... it ain't random.
And thus it begins... -
please.
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Just wanted to be the first asshole to post that.
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I think anything creative is essentially made up as it goes along at some point. The trouble starts when you film a bunch of episodes that in retrospect you'd like to change to reflect the better ideas you think of after you shoot them. Anyway, this talkback isn't made up as it goes along at all. MacFaux scripted it all last August, at his log cabin in the Adirondaks, recuperating from a nasty jolt of mononucleosis. These names you see are merely colour coded pawns in his grand scheme. Or hallucinations, from the psychotic side-effects of all that Prednisone. He still thinks Michelle Pfeiffer is his nurse!
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..well i know at some point I will die, havent written the inbetween parts yet.
them stating they know how it ends means practically anything could happen inbetween before Vincent wakes up from his dream.
I'm personally OK with shows not answering questions posed, quantum leap and angel being good examples of paticularly good endings, but lost was babylon 5 style a continually developing story requiring massive investment from the viewer, AND they have promised answers to some of the big questions.
the reason why everyone is pissed off is because the 'this show is about the characters and their development' arguement is bullshit, we want to see character development dealing with the answers to these questions, they are running out of time to do this.
I dont care if kate still loves sawyer and is having trouble moving on, I want to see how she deals with being a pawn of a MIB vs jacob game of backgammon(assuming that is the case of course). I want to know if her love triangle is still something that matters to her then, in the face of bigger issues. ANSWER ME THAT MR'S LINLELOF AND CUSE
Battlestar was such a let down in the last series because the time from realisation of their fate to making life choices was about 3 minutes.
On another rant and something the producers should be aware of, I have now had 5 separate people asking whether they should bother investing in lost, and buy the dvvd's/ blu ray now they have seen it advertised again, I have told each one to wait until it is done and I will tell them whether it is worth it or not. ANSWERS = CASH!! -
ace name by the way. Wasnt yanking your smokey and commenting was just random ranting.
I think I understand satire, and the meaning of the word retarded but to be clear from now on im going to use 'satarded' when I'm using retarded in a republic-doh! ..satirical way. 'George Bush was soooo Satarded' cant get mad because it was satirical. FACT!Couldnt stop laughing when I watched the daily show, I wish UK politicians were nearly as interesting, its comforting to know they are all intelligent enough to rob us blind but its not fun. Sometimes american politicans make you feel like you are at a pantomime, and you should be 'boo, hissing' at them, much more entertaining. -
not that, that was what you were on about, was just on my mind.
work is boring today. Bring on the trolls!! -
about the BSG thing, and the 3 minutes. With Lost, I just want to enjoy it, but let me know WHAT THE SHOW IS EVEN ABOUT. The actual plot (and major pieces to this puzzle) have not even been revealed yet.
If the show is about dimension-jumping time cops from the future who battle demons, let me know before the last scene of the final episode so I can enjoy the show for what it is. Mystery is great, but C'MON. Plot and action have to take place at some time.
Again, the show when it ends may not even be the same show you are watching right now, so to speak. Is the show really about (1) time travel? (2) a person(s) from the future, (3) angels and demons and such? Who knows?
And don't tell me "it's all about the charaters". That's what bad writers say. That's what you say when you have no plot. That's called a charater study, and Lost is a genre mystery show, I don't think anyone would call this primarily a character study. Also, when the finale airs, and the REVEAL is, well, revealed- Darlton will say, "Look at us, ain't we clever, we planned this all along," and all talk of it being only about the characters will go right out the window. Don't Crying Game me! But seriously, don't crying game me. -
If they REALLY knew the end then they would have discovered the scripts eons ago, fully formed with a scrawling list of answers as the last series episodes.
Seriously, I find myself in this weird feedback loop of watching episodes and judging on whether they're answering enough instead of actual quality. Probably too much reading of the moronic comments on this here talkback instead of the rational interesting ones. Has anyone asked Harry why we cant have an ignore poster button? -
Never mind writing before the show aired...
If they REALLY knew the end then they would have discovered the scripts eons ago, fully formed with a scrawling list of answers as the last series episodes.
Seriously, I find myself in this weird feedback loop of watching episodes and judging on whether they're answering enough instead of actual quality. Probably too much reading of the moronic comments on this here talkback instead of the rational interesting ones. Has anyone asked Harry why we cant have an ignore poster button? -
I agree with that. For instance, ABC fucked Twin Peaks up the ass, but revealing who killed Laura MID SEASON and then spending several episodes dealing with the consequences of that made for some very satisfying viewing. Just a pity Frost and Lynch weren't around to pick up the pieces from having their hand shown earlier than they wanted. Conveniently revealing everything just in time for a cliff hanger then not properly addressing it again. LOST hasn't got a David Lynch figure to come riding in, tear up all the scripts, and tie the room together with a nice looking rug to pull from under us. It would have been ballsy to reveal the mythology early then tell stories about the characters coping with the fall out. But I've been satisfied with the show for a long time, just playing devil's advocate I guess. Oh, and has anybody started a book on which episode Dogen gets killed? Clearly he knows far to much to survive until the finale.
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Bring it.
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im hilarious me
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I actually said this to my wife around season 3 when they first started talking about an end date for the show because viewership was falling off. I just thought, if they answer the bigger questions of smokey and the island and then focus on character stories after that I would still watch just as religiously 'cause I love the characters. I love everything else and would've stuck with the show for another 5 seasons without major answers, but I do agree, it would've been an interesting move.
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Feb 16, 2010 7:59:57 AM CST
The Constant, The Variable, The Substitute. And later this seaso
by hugoreyes_bitchtits
The Candidate!
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About Hurley's friend Dave: Dave wasn't on the island, so he wasn't likely Smoke Man. I think the "Dave" episode is just one of those throwaway episodes; the showrunners have admitted that some episodes were poorly written, & can be ignored when considering the mytharc.
And unless they show that Jacob has been using dead bodies, I think it's safe to say that every walking dead person seen on the island has been Smoke Man, or his influence; this would include Yemi, Christian Shepherd, & presumably Claire & Sayid. -
I dont think there is anything to indicate the Dave ep was throwaway. In fact now knowing dead people can be claimed, it clearly shows the island/smokey using someones mind/memories to get them to choose to kill themselves. I'd say it was pretty important. Also, Dave was never real. On or off the island.
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This will surely be better than last week's turd of an episode. I would love a Flocke/Sawyer teamup for the remainder of the season. Hopefully they both kill the others sooner than later.
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...is a dead dude. Like Libby's husband or some crazy shit.
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I'm just saying that some episodes are discardable, as acknowledged by the LOST folks, & I think Dave counts. The "dead people can be claimed" thing appears to depend upon the physical presence of a corpse. The smoke can display your memories, but it can't form a solid construct, i.e. Dave, from them. It needs a body! That's why you gotta bury them bodies, maing.
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If they don't like it.. fuck 'em. It will make you feel even more special to like it if it ain't so mainstream. TDK is a great movie that people bash just cause it was such a big hit.
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I think they dropped the ball by not keeping Yemi around. Yemi could have been the perfect retro-continuity to have kept Eko and the tail section relevant, even after they weren't.
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Right. I agree with your rules of claiming, what I'm getting at is that Dave was trying to get Hurley to kill himself therefore providing it with another corpse to claim. And, from what they've said, Hurley would be a pretty important person to claim. Which is why I'd say it was an important episode. I feel like stranger in a strange land and fire + water are the type of episodes they are talking about when they talk about it not having to do with the larger mythology.
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The thing about Losts big mysteries that people seem to forget is that the show could have been given the ‘lets wrap this up’ signal from ABC by the end of the 6th episode.
Meaning that, the producers could only make another 8 episodes max to tie it all up and Lost would become yet another forgotten gem of a prematurely cancelled show. And by now (in an alternate universe!) we would know exactly what the island was, what smokey was and the “most important question in the world” was… Why were they on the island?
In this parallel universe Lost got its marching orders in 2004, 6 episodes in and ran for only 12 or 14 episodes and for the last 5 years the entire world has known the ending of the show but then had there brains melted by half a decade of endless “talent” shows, moronic procedural cop shows, so called quirky hospital comedies and there serious emo-drama counterparts. Tv plays the safe card in this world close to our own, yet…stupider
Lost continued for 6 years in our own world and influenced a spate of temporarily interesting (if flawed) serial sci-fi fantasy shows as an alternative from these ‘other’ or idiot shows
Unfortunately, even now, although we were given a temporary tv refuge for 6 years these two universes are merging and our tv entertainment is regressing back to its gay idiot state, see ‘Glee’ for example, or ‘Spartacus’, dark times are indeed ahead of us all
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It's also one of the only times we've seen a "ghost" version of someone on the island that I can think of where it won't make a lick of fucking sense if it turns out it was Smokie/MiB. He's never had any interest Hurley, would gain nothing from getting him to off himself, and the whole episode is just a cheap way of revealing the Libby mystery. The Dave thing sucks. I love LOST, I defend it foolheartedly when it deserves it...but Dave doesn't deserve it. Especially considering they had already expressly said the show isn't in someones head, so watching that episode was just a slap in the face. Fire + Water, Stranger in A Strange Land, Dave, Par Avion...the only episodes of LOST that are only barely worth watching. There's nothing wrong with 4 out of 110 episodes being less than stellar though.
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He could have just been setup for Hurley's abilities...or a rather large hole/grave they dug to throw all the dead plots into.
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I read that after I posted. Maybe MiB wanted Hurley...but why didn't he ever try again? Why hasn't he shown a moment of interest in Hurley ever again or before that...including with the smoke monster. Has Hurley ever been in danger of the smoke monster? Not that I can remember. If MiB wanted him dead...why couldn't he just rock him Eko/Pilot style? I'll accept your "MiB wanted to claim Hurley" thing...but it still seems pointless to me. What can you do with Hurley?
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He was Hurley's imaginary friend.. Some of you don't remember shit right. Hurley's not playing with a full deck.
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Way to bait the Goth Claire fans LOL....
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She didn't die did she? I thought she just disappeared. As for Sayid, I think Jacob wanted him put into the Lazarus Pool (or Lost-equivalent) for a reason. Presumably there is some way to save him from the influence of The Dark Side (or Lost-equivalent), thus there should be some clues forthcoming about how to at least try and save Sayid.For another, the fact I'm even discussing this speaks volumes of how cool I'm not. But I do love the show.-Cheers
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I think the reason Smokey used Dave and why he didn't try again is that it had to Hurley's choice. Which seems to be a pretty big deal on the show. As to what you can do with Hurley? Maybe Smokey wants to have a snack when he gets "home", cuz you know that motherfucker taste like Ranch.
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he wouldn't have been encouraging him to take a dive off a fucking cliff! Kinda hard to reanimate a fat corpse that's sinking in the ocean. And if he wanted Hurley dead, he would've pounded on him. "Dave" was garbage.
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Exactly, the end of "Dave" basically preempts any speculation about Dave on the island. That was Hurley tripping out & seeing Dave, which was just a dumb plot thread.
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It was: What Hurley Does.. which is go nuts when things don't go his way.
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It would be quite something if they found an old episode or three to plausibly claim had flash sideways in it.... This speculation about who else may or may not have been claimed makes me wonder what other reversals they could attempt. And I still want to know precisely what happened when Ben "moved" the island. Should we see that in a new light now, as well?
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Would re-animating Hurley be more or less hard than re-animating any of the other people;Yemi(in a plane),Christian(in a coffin)Claire(buried under rubble). I'm just saying if you're willing to accept the idea of "claiming", but then argue it's illogical cuz he'd be underwater, it's hard to follow.
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Or else there wouldn't be the Locke-is-Smoke-Monster and the Locke-in-Coffin. Would there? If only I had the answers. I also think Dave may have just been a way of showing how the island messes with people, while providing a glimpse into Hurley's past at the mental institute. I doubt the corpse of Kate's horse was on the island, yet it brought that back. The MIB Corpse Puppet Master thing might be too straight-forward if you think that is the only way the island works. So I think Dave was a one-off, but not necessarily worthless or throw-away.-Cheers
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Just trying to find some way of making sense of his inclusion besides accepting him as filler.
I just don't think we have a clue on the payoffs for Hurley quite yet. If it's been known by the writer's where Hugo's thread leads, then his experiences and abilities (the Hurley-bird, numbers, visions of dead people, etc..) must have some unforeseen payoff. Hopefully... -
..is what i was assuming to be true. Meaning dave wasnt just a figment, jacob himself has now shown that hurley can see dead people he hasnt met before.
assuming the above i hypothesised that dave was mib trying to keep hurley from reaching the island by influencing him in the mental hospital and trying to kill him when he got there anyway. After trying twice he gave up on him as someone he could claim.
am trying to work out why smokie has never really done anything else about hurley though, and why he gets his own bird.:) -
If MIB can take the form of Locke and Bens daughter and others without thier body why is it so ridiculous that he could appear as someone who exist only in Hurley's mind
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- I've always loved that theory. It would explain the significance of Libby being in the ward as well as connect Hurley's current "power" to his past visions.
I just hope by the end of the series we're given enough info to figure out on our own when island visions/dreams/sightings were the doing of Jacob (Locke & Charlie's Dreams?) and when they were the doing of the Man in Black (Christian, Yemi)... or when they were the doing of the Island's crazy magic box that makes it like the Dagobah cave and brings to the Island what the survivors themselves have brought with them (Sawyer's Boar, Kate's Horse?).
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Wasn't full crazy.. you can't go full crazy.. everyone knows that. But Hurley is a little nuts.
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Because Smokie never scanned Hurley so how would he know about Dave?
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I am NOT saying the Dave ep was good I'm just saying I don't think it's disposable because of what it says about the capabilities of the island/smokey.
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By the way, if anyone's bored enough to want to read an in-depth analysis of the mysteries revealed in last week's episode (6.03 What Kate Does), check out my blog:
I take a special focus each week on trying to categorize the various mysteries of the show into as few categories/questions as possible. -
Here's that blog link: http://tinyurl.com/y8q2g88
I regular link html doesn't work on here... -
That's completely the opposite of what the LOST writers do then. They take a special focus each week on trying to categorise the various mysteries of the show into as few answers as possible.
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We don't know he was never scanned. Also he could have gotten the info from a source we don yet know. Alls I'm sayin' is, that if your argument is that, that particular ep was poorly written, I would agree. But to say it's meaningless based a few details that, right now, don't add up, seems like a good way to not be open for what the answer may be. If you dismiss possibility outright the truth never seems to add up. It's why we have conspiracy theories.
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Ben's daughter's corpse was presumably left outside by the barracks. If Claire did, in fact, die, her body was available, above ground, after her house blew up. So if/when the writers finally codify the physics of the Smoke Monster, zombies, etc., there's some illustration for them.Dave was a single-episode plot device used to illuminate Hugo's mental conflicts.
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Dave was a season 2 episode.. back then they had 24 episodes season. Room for filler.. but it was a pretty decent filler. I wasn't bored with it but it didn't add much to the story other than than revealing that Hurley is a slight nutcase.
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Then I guess I'm a potential cure for that? :)
I think part of why we all can't wait to see how this thing pans out is so we can know whether we should hug the writers or pummel them.
Though, knowing this show, it'll probably end up a mix of both. -
There's obviously much more to Hugo than we've seen as of yet. Just pondering the threads we've been dealt thus far to see if a pattern is emerging or not.
MIB, Jacob or whateverthefuck also posed as Ben's mother. And as far as we know, her body was not brought by Roger and Ben on the Sub. Her ashes maybe? -
That Others woman Harper who we never saw again but seemed to appear and disappear. And of course Walt was astral-projecting or some such shit. Why did Shannon see him? Was that the same as when Locke saw him? He wasn't dead, so what was that about?
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Here's my take on Hurley's Power from my "LA X" break-down on my blog:
"Hurley's Power: 'Can he really speak to the dead or is it just the Island/Jacob sending him visions?' has been a question since Charlie first popped up at Santa Rosa in 4.01 (The Beginning of the End). Here we get confirmation for the first time that he CAN speak to at least one dead person: the dead Jacob. But there's still a chance that it's been Jacob in different forms the whole time anyway, so maybe his power is just that he can speak with Jacob, alive or dead, on-island or off."
sagaciouspenguin.blogspot.com if anyone wants to read more.
If Dave actually does turn out to be a dead person, then maybe he'll finally be the proof that Hurley actually can talk to the dead and not just Jacob. After all, there's no reason Jacob would want Hurley dead in 2.18 (Dave), so if Dave's not Jacob, and he's not Hurley's subconscious (still a possibility), then perchance he's our good old friend the MIB? Of course if the MIB wanted Hurley dead, I'm sure smokey could have just come along and thrown him off that cliff.
Here's hoping by the end of the show we'll be able to categorize all the visions and mysterious island sightings rather easily...
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Looking forward to seeing how his gifts tie in too. Has he been claimed for some bigger purpose, by someone else?
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Any major revelations regarding the nature of the island will first and foremost have to tie in with the earliest episodes.
The writers say they have always had an ending and so far I believe them.
I am not saying the episodes between 7 and now was filler. But in regards to the BIG mysteries…. Well they are, in a sense.
The writers have admitted that they hadn’t even conceived of the Dharma initiative by episode 6 and had to introduce it to stretch the mystery out, the writers have also stated that Dharma will have practically no baring in the ending of the show. The Others will though. We know the ‘others’ were around early on, and the purge of hippy dippy scientists and the amalgamation of the remaining Dharma folk and the original Island folk equals to practically the same group of jungle people that were a treat the crash survivors in the first place. They are all back living the jungle old school style now. Even Jacob was around (just not by name) in the form of Christian.
All of the major pieces are in the first 6 episodes. Only the small details (in the larger scheme) have changed in between. I’ve had a great time don’t get me wrong, but I think this is all leading up to one specific characters fate. Jacks.
My bet is on him going some Ben Sisko/ Sam Becket route taking over someone or something’s supernatural job. He is for all intense and purposes a REPLACEMENT
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I'm inclined to think that both Harper and Wet Walt were not those individuals but manifestations from either the Island itself or perhaps the MIB. After all, Harper said she had orders from Ben, but we don't have any reason to think Ben was in communication with the Others while he was captured by Locke. I mean, it's a possibility... but I would think that the MIB himself would have been more inclined to want to see every person on the island killed rather than Ben. I think Ben values himself too much to commit group suicide...
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Point taken. Definitely agree on the filler aspect of it, much like a lot of 2 and 3 when they started to think it was going to go on forever. But, I guess, agree to disagree, on Dave's importance as a construct. Cuz I still feel like that info is going to come into play later.
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Scroll up a bit and read the back and forth about Dave and Hurley and why he wasn't just thrown off the cliff or pummeled. I'd be curious to hear your take.
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I think there were two big infusions of mythology - what they dreamt up during the hiatus between the first two seasons, and again what new elements were brought into play around the time they got an end date. I agree other aspect probably won't play into the finale so much, even though they had a lot of screen time. But I think those early season one days were a different entity to what we have now. If it had just got a 13 episode order, we'd get that first set of stories up to Jack resuscitating Charlie and Locke and Boone finding the hatch, and then instead of spending weeks staring at the jungle floor and building a raft, the season one finale would have happened immediately. But with different cliff hangers. The hatch would be revealed, they'd explain the monster (who wasn't smoke yet) and Adam and Eve, where the island is, and go home. There's a very good essay on the creation of Lost in one of the Chicago newspapers I think it was. Basically, it was a different deal back then to where we are now. Obviously those early elements of mystery will be paid off, but we've come a long way since then, so I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
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Have the writers said or implied, are the powers/mysteries of the Island tied to the powers of Jacob & MIB? I'm guessing Hurley's numbers, the specialness of the Island, and all that entails is intertwined. However, I'm not sure if Jacob a/o MIB are related to the Island's nature, or if they were normal and the Island transformed or created them, or if they were special and they were drawn to the Island.But I also wonder if something like Dave, Desmond's fortune telling, the time-traveling, the Island's healing, some/most of the strange events etc. are all entirely separate from Jacob and the MIB/Locke, and they are just players (of as of yet unexplained origins) trying to manipulate the Island?It's probably a longshot, but here the writers expressely stated that Jacob & the MIB are separate from the Island and its powers or implied how they became intertwined?-Cheers
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This is why so many of the complaints about LOST bug this shit out of me. If this was LOST:The Movie, we wouldn't have seen 1/20 of what we've gotten with the show. That's what makes it so engaging. It's episodic. TV is a medium that has survived the advent of DVD players and the internet because you can do things in that medium you can't do anywhere else. Like set up a fairly broad, albeit amazingly original, idea and run with it as long as you can.
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There's this:
Lindelof: Look, it would be nice to look back and say, "We love every episode of 'Lost,' and every episode turned out the way we wanted it to." There are shitty episodes of "Lost" that we wish we had never written. But had we not written them we would be in a different situation now, because we ran out of ideas, we stalled, then the network realized what we had been saying from early on -- that "Lost" needed an end date. And now here we are six years later on broadcast with a show that is -- not what it once was [in the ratings] -- but still performing, and we're ending it on our own terms because we had shitty episodes.
Plus some other interview or podcast from back in the day, when somehow they acknowledged that some plot threads/episodes, & they might've been talking about Stranger In A Strange Land specifically, that don't directly serve the mytharc. But then they defend those plots/episodes as important for character development, & who really gives a shit about that? -
I'm pretty sure that was a podcast/online only scene and not a deleted scene.
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I suspect it's correct that if the MIB wanted to "claim" Hurley, he wouldn't have tried to trick him over the cliff. Though there's also a chance that he'd already judged Hurley "unamenable for coercion" like he'd eventually decide about Eko.
Though if Dave wasn't the MIB or anything beyond Hurley's subconscious manifested through Island magic, then he's probably part of the Dagobah Cave factor of the Island (like I suspect Kate's Horse and Sawyer's Boar will prove to be).
Speaking of which, where do we suspect Locke's father (Cooper) falls on that table? Did the Others just grab him from Tallahassee via a car accident and the Orange Juice Express, or was Ben telling the truth about the Island's "magic box" abilities? -
Just because they say that an episode was shitty doesn't mean by extension it can be thrown out. I think that's McGooCain's point. Mine as well.
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Where/what is the island. The backgammon game. Black and white stones. Locke being healed. Christian's body. Adam and Eve. The monster. Aaron. The others. I agree all this should be in play in the finale. But there will be additional elements too, I should think. The idea of a loop was there early. Wasn't the show going to be called The Circle at one time? Plus that time stamped iteration of the distress signal could foreshadow a pattern of endless repetition. The spooky creepiness of twenty years ago still haunting the survivors fate was a really nice note to end the pilot with. Took a while for them to make as much of that as they could. And of course the flashbacks were in play early. The pilot interlinked different characters thanks to the plane, and we're seeing that connectedness a lot more now, thankfully. But the flashback structure played with time elements too, so the narrative of the finale ought to retain something of that. I think there's some imagery from the pilot that folk are still expecting to mean something too. But I think it would be a bullshit move if the end of Lost hinged entirely on the early episodes. Remember this was hastily cast and written on the fly basically on the whim of a studio executive who got fired and a director/producer who pretty much left the show after two episodes. I know Lost has a history of big opening episode - lots of filler - big finishing episode. But for the whole show to be pilot - lots of filler - finale, is a ridiculous thing to expect.
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So many other seasons have started out like gangbusters- like when the freighties started landed or even when we first see flash forwards. This one feels like a bad hangover. Please start answering questions about the ongoing mythology and stop drifting. I get the feeling that the show will end with everything being completely nullified and Hurley going- yeah that would be totally weird if it actually happened!
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That was a "Missing Pieces" Mobisode filmed and written between seasons 3 and 4.
"Christian Shepard" pets Vincent and tells him to go wake "his son" up from where he lay in the jungle. As Vincent runs off to go sniff Jack (the opening scene of 1.01 Pilot) "Christian" says "And so it begins..."
I suspect Christian might be the MIB here... -
"lets move on"
No one's stopping you. -
really enjoying the talkback for a change, decent back and forth, valid arguements for and against many points, rather than insults and satarded comments, trolls having a day off. its all good.
I need to refine my theory and definitely need a reason why hurley is so special, des had to be willing to sacrifice himself for everyone else to get his fancy powers. But i remain convinced that Dave McBaldy was smokey both on and off island trying to keep him out of the final confrontation. Just not sure why he couldnt directly affect him. Am i right in thinking that everyone left has had some direct encounter with the smoke monster except hurley and desmond? -
I agree that just because they acknowledge they wish they hadn't written an episode doesn't mean there aren't mythology tidbits to be gleaned from it. It just means they wish they hadn't done that particular story or vehicle of communicating those tidbits.
Stranger in a Strange Land is a perfect example. The tattoo story was dulls-ville, but Juliet being held on trial for breaking "The Rules" and branded as an outcast was an important story development.
I suspect this "branding" was more than just a sign of shame. After all, there's got to be some reason she timeskipped with our heroes rather than staying "connected" to the Island itself like the rest of the Others...
So there you have it, something important buried in an otherwise throwaway episode. I suspect most "throwaway" episodes are like this.
And by the way, TrasnportedMan, I care a LOT about character development :) I don't think this show would have nearly the following it did if the characters weren't so well-developed and likable. -
Anyone care to speculate as to where does Ben vs Widmore stand in all of this? Seeing that we had one whole season [4] and a half [3 and 5] dealing with Ben vs Widmore, is strange to see that Widmore is suddenly out of equation. Were they just spinning wheels in S4?
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This is my point. I think the episode is important in that it shows, in my opinion, that the island/smokey has the ability to take the form of not just dead people but even imaginary people. It also shows us that someone; Jacob/Smokey/Other, wanted Hurley not just dead, but to choose to die. I think all these things will be important, based on this idea of "claiming" people.
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I'm not saying toss the whole episode for shit's sake! Just toss the plot thread when discussing the mytharc. When the showrunners admit to having written shitty episodes, & have acknowledged that some plot threads are dead or inconsequential, it should seem obvious that we can disregard some episodes for their lack of value to the mytharc. "Dave" sucked, but I see that it had a bit about Henry Gale, so yeah.
And duh, we all care about character development! The running joke here is that the LOST folks have been saying that LOST is foremost a story about characters, & I cry foul at that. It's a story about a mysterious island & the events, characters, & physical/temporal properties within. -
I could be wrong, but if I recall... in the mobisode "Christian" told Vincent to wake his son Jack, because "he has work to do".
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See, here's the thing. You could say I wrote a long analysis of the mysteries and character archs from last week's episode on my blog because I'm desperately trying to save face for this show and find things to talk about where there are none... but you'd be mistaken.
Truth is, I was riveted to the episode, analyzed the dickens out of it with my roommates, and only then came online, read some comments in forums, and realized that my snap reaction to the episode was wrong and that it was "filler" and that "nothing happened" - so whoops, I guess my gut reaction was incorrect.
But seriously, my point is that I respect that last week's story might not have been everyone's cup of tea, but to say nothing happened is being blind and ignorant. Check my blog out for all the things I had determined had happened before coming online and being told that nothing, in fact had. sagaciouspenguin.blogspot.com.
Okay, that's the last time I'm posting that link - promise! -
Regarding Widmore, it would seem that the Ben vs. Widmore plot is just another conflict echoing the ages-old conflict b/w Jacob & Smoke Man, but Widmore's back this season, & I think there's a bit in season 5 where Widmore's like, "A war is coming."
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Further to those Damon quotes above, I think there's another one where he fesses up once the show was a success and he was basically secure as the show runner and got Carlton in because JJ was gone, that's when they really had the luxury of determining their long term strategy. They just ran into trouble with those long long early seasons and not knowing how many seasons there would be. To his credit, when asked about poor episodes, the first one he singled out was one he wrote himself, on the grounds that he's grown as a writer doing this show - I think we've all seen this - and that a couple of early ones weren't his finest hour in terms of doing productive things with his own characters. It's commendable that he's protective of his writing staff. I think he pretty much took the blame for Stranger In A Strange Land off whoever wrote it, because asking somebody to write that was a bit like what in rugby they call a "hospital pass". I remember how many idiots there were just before the season one finale who were adamant that the Others were totally EVIL and the Losties were terrific and swell and really really great guys. They wouldn't countenance any of the blindingly obvious ambiguity about what was actually happening in the episodes. Presumably these fuckwits are among the several million who stopped watching. But it gets me to thinking, just has the Losties aren't exactly heroic, but may be more significant to the island than they realise, and just as Dharma, and the Others, and the Hostiles, and the people on the freighter aren't necessarily indiscriminately bad guys, there remains the possibility that Jacob and MIB aren't as high up the island hierarchy as they think. We could still get the Joop the magic monkey scenario, or the Wizard of Oz, or whatever. Now time travel is a factor, or alt realities, it does seem likely that the Losties are important because of events on the island that have not yet happened to them, at least in this life, but which are known or partly understood by other island interest groups, perhaps even set in motion by the Losties themselves. Which is going to be paradox-tastic, I'm sure. I wonder if we'll not just get island stuff from Black Rock days, but also just prior to 815, from Jacob MIB perspective, and contrast the two. Hopefully all of this has happened before, all of this will happen again, will have a fucking plan to it if that's where we're heading. Desmond seems to be something else than Jacob and MIB maybe? The island may have an interest of its own.
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Am I imagining things, was that included in the pre-finale catch you up show?
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As much as I hate to admit it I don't think they will have time to satisfactorily "finish" the Ben/Widmore story. I think the big question will be answered but stuff like, What the fuck was that video Ben showed Locke of Widmore, or why was Widmore so keen to get the Black Rock journal, wont be.
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Some of you are like a fucking broken record. The "answers" are all gonna come in one episode, right now they are telling the story still. Deal with it. There is more story to tell. Its honestly like most of you have only watched the show for the "answers" and you actually dont give a fuck about the story or the characters. That backwards, my friends. Honestly, how long do you think it will take to unpack the mysteries? 10-15 minutes. You guys act like it will take an entire season and they are blowing it. Revealing things takes very little time...like, say, one or two scenes of expository dialogue. We have 14 hours left! What do you people expect? We still aren't at the end-game, so what answers do you expect? I posit that no amtter what happens, what they answer, who lives who dies, most of you will hate it and call it bullshit and say it was a waste of time. Just like the fuking BSG finale people. Try being realistic about something for once, instead of bloating your expectations into something retarded. Answers schmanswers. I want to know what happens to our character. I'm honestly less interested in knowing what the island is than I am in knowing what happens to Jack and/or Desmond. I want to know more about Charles Widmore and "the rules". I swear, some of you watch this show for the absolute wrong reasons. Acting like just because its the final season they should be throwing out "answers" like candy is stupid. There is a lot left to happen. Think about a great mystery movie, I'll go with Chinatown. it's two hours long. And they unpack a whole lot of mystery. Lost is a fucking 120 hour movies. There are 14 hours left. THAT IS SEVEN FULL LENGTH MOVIES WORTH OF SCREEN TIME. Honestly, some of you need to get a grip. SEVEN FUCKING MOVIES WORTH. You think they can explain what the island is for 7 movies? I hate most of you. Your comments infuriate me with their stupidity.
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Yes it was.
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Someone has to try to bring some pragmatism to this whole ordeal. it's getting out of hand.
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http://www.thrfeed.com/-lost-final-season-interview-part-two-.html
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Amen, brotha.
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Onezeroone - I still think Widmore has a major role to play. He told Locke that "a war was coming" on Island and they had to make sure he was in the right place when it came. Could Widmore be pro-MIB?
McGooCain - I have a feeling that the ending scene(s) and the end of some of the major character archs may have been ready to go from as early as Season 1, but all writers add things of importance as they go - especially writers crafting their tale over six years - so I suspect a lot of the big endgame reveals/moments will be based on things beyond Season 1.
OtherJosh - I'm with you on "Dave" being an important clue/puzzle piece as to how the Island works - whether he was MIB (like Christian, Yemi) or Island magic pulling Hurley's subconscious out of him (I suspect, like Sawyer's Boar, Kate's Horse).
TransportedMan - You're right that it's not just character archs. I have a feeling the writers are taking that angle in interviews this season just to start preparing people for the fact that not every single mysterious beat on the show can have an in-show speech explaining what precisely was going on. I do think, however, that we'll still get satisfactory story points for all major mysteries that will give us enough info to solve the majority of the rest. For instance, if the MIB ever says he went around testing all the heroes on-Island to find who was most amenable for coercion, appearing in dreams and as elements of their subconsciouses... well, that's going to knock out a lot of mysteries in one go!
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Note: This is very long and written over time. Rest assured I haven't fully lost my mind yet. I do not proclaim to be a "know it all", these are my personal thoughts/opinions. I love the show and enjoy trying to break it down. I look forward to being proven wrong on everything! Makes the show even more fun.
No reason to recap the entire episodes. Here's a few bullet points on what is going on right now.
* Remember Hurley and Miles conversation last season about Time Travel? Miles argued that "Whatever Happened, Happened" and Hurley argued "That they could alter events", according to what we are seeing: both are right.
The universe we have always known (seasons 1 -5) I'll refer to as the WHH universe... Whatever Happened, Happened. They always crashed, Desmond always failed to hit the button, the Freighter always came, the 6 always left, the rest always time traveled, etc. It was their present while being in the Island's past. When Jacob died and said "They're coming" he was referring to those in 1977 being flashed to 2007 where Richard, Ben, Sun etc. were at the foot of the statue. We see that the hatch had been built and "WHH". This is the universe we have always watched. This is 1 thing that happened at the bomb site. The other is...
Juliet activated the bomb and the plan worked. They wiped out all that energy. The island submerged to the bottom of the ocean. Sometime in the late 70's I suppose. There was enough time for people like Ethan and probably Ben and his Dad to evacuate the island with the rest of Dharma. So none of these people grew up to be "Others." This is the Hurley arguement: "The reset universe." Imagine time as a straight line. That line is continuing and that is the WHH universe that we know. This reset universe is a fork in the road created by the bomb working. So in this universe they never crash, the island no longer exists. Yet somehow fate is bringing them together. Jack has a cut on his neck similar to when he crashed, Kate and Claire are still tied to each other, Jack and John, Ethan/Claire, etc. We'll continue to see this all season long. Notice when we cut to these "flash sideways" we no longer have the flashback "woosh" sound. It's been replaced with the sound of the time flashes. Because this universe is very much real. It's not an alternate, it's a parallel. These versions of the characters are very much real. Why should we care about this universe? We have no investment in this version of the characters? I believe we will see down the road somehow these 2 universes will "bleed" into each other. How? That's the million dollar question. These deja vu moments the characters are having with each other are certainly hints.
Maybe it's Jacob's touch? I wrote prior to the season premiere that I thought we would get a new universe. But that the twist would be that this "new" universe is the original. That they never did crash ever. That Jacob going back and touching specfic people altered their lives and brought them to the island. So I proposed that everything we saw season 1 -5 was the universe that was changed. This universe we are seeing now, while being presented as new is actually the original. This is still a possibility but I am starting to doubt it. We know Jacob brings everyone to the island so it's very well possible. He believes there is only 1 end, and everything before that is progress. This would make sense with everyone has brought to the island: Army = bomb, dharma = hatches, etc. Each of these groups did something specific that ended up playing a role in where we are now. What makes the Oceanic survivors so important is because they are the "final" pieces in this game between Jacob and the Man in Black.
*Juliet saying "It worked" via Miles was in reference to the parallel universe. The dead can cross over. Think back to when "dead" Charlie visited Hurley. He told him "I am dead, but I'm also here."
Answers revealed in these episodes
They are answering questions! They are not going to beat answers over are head! We will have to fill in some blanks based off info we are given. The Man in Black/Evil Locke = the Smoke Monster this is a huge reveal! If you go back and watch the series, every action of the smoke monster can be seen in a different light.
The "Sickness" that Rousseau's husband and team experienced is finally revealed. It's different then the sickness that people expierenced when traveling to and from the island on the wrong bearing. The sickness = man in black claiming the dead. This explains why Claire was in the cabin. I believe the murky water is what killed Sayid. The Man In Black made the water change color, this is what led to Sayid's death. Then Sayid woke up in an undead state while in the process of being claimed. This also explains what the Others did to revive young Ben after Sayid shot him. Only the water was clear then. This also explains why the Others are so careful with their dead. They had sent the body of an other named Colleen to sea and burned her body. This was so the Man in Black can't take it over. Remeber last year when Richard visited the Others and demanded Ethan's mom Amy's 1st husband's body since two of his men died? This was because they wanted to dispose of the body properly. This also could explain why Christian Shephard's body was not in the coffin. Since he was dead the man in black claimed him and guided him to the cabin.
It's pretty clear as well that the whispers = the others. Hopefully more will get explained on this.
Random thoughts.
No reason to hate these new others. We have known since the end of season 3 that there was a temple on the island. Ben told Richard to bring everyone there as it was the only safe place from the freighter people who would soon be showing up. Last year Richard told Fake Locke that there was a group of thers at the temple. So it's not like they just sprung this group up on us. I imagine "Dogen" is upper management and doesn't deal with the day to day things. He just is in charge of the temple and is probably much more educated about the history of things then Ben, etc.
There is a war coming: Team Jacob, Team Man in Black. Each will recruit their players. There's some sort of "rules" in place. We will hopefully learn more about them. We already know that Jacob and The Man in Black can't physically kill the other, I believe this is part of their laws. Perhaps when Richard visited young Locke and gave him the test with the different items, that the laws that they must abide by are in the book titled: "the book of laws." This was one of the items Richard presented him. Just a thought.
I also believe Widmore is alligned with the man in black. That's why he told John Locke that a war was coming, and in order for the right side to win he had to be back on the island. What he didn't tell John was for the "right" side to win, John had to be back but he had to be back dead. I believe Widmore is also the person who kicked some of the ash out of the cabin back in the day. Man in Black has now been coming and going from the cabin as he pleases. I believe Widmore ordered the purge of Dharma. Eloise was gone from the island at this point. I believe Widmore made sure none of the dharma folk were properly buried, but instead placed in a pit. He did this so the MIB could have acces to them. That's how the MIB as Horace Goodspeed visited John in a dream and told him how to find a cabin. He has known about Locke for awhile. He made sure his employee Matthew Abbadon motivated John to get on Oceanic 815 to ensure that the events that would follow would happen.
I guess the Man in Black has somehow been a prisoner on the island, forced to play this game with Jacob. Will be interesting to see where this goes.
Speaking of prisoners: I think the man in black's line to Richard about seeing him out of those chains has a double meaning: He was on the black rock ship. He is "free" of having to take orders from Jacob. Richard and Man in Black certainly have a history. Dating back to that day that we saw last year when Jacob guided the Black Rock to the island.
"Aldo" the other who was killed by Claire and is on the show" It's Always Sunny..." was in a season 3 episode. That whole line to Kate about the prisoner trick was a reference to when her and Sawyer knocked him out to go into Room 23 on the smaller island to help Karl, Alex's boyfriend, escape.
Still banking on Rose and Bernard being "Adam and Eve" skeltons.
Personal Thoughts
I'm being patient with the parallel universe because I feel we'll get a great payoff for how both universe's play into each other. I still hope the real locke comes back to life. I think the parallel universe story will climax with Jack fixing John. I am sticking to my guns that the real John Locke is "What Lies in the Shadow of the Statue." And that Walt's dream about John being back on the island in a suit with people around him wanting to hurt will still be seen. I believe the only person who will believe that it's the real John Locke - will be Jack. I still think that when John first saw the monster, he saw a different monster: Jacob as a bright light. Remember John told Eko he saw a bright light. We'll see. In the end I think John, who we were duped into believing was special. Will be seen as the most special of all: by being the first to come back from the dead. I think that's why we keep being reminded that when you die, you can't come back. So we won't see this coming.
The Loophole
Couple of people asked me to breakdown the Man In Black's Loophole on how to kill Jacob here it is.
He gave Ben cancer. This made Ben start to question Jacob and why he would become ill.
When John and Ben go to the cabin The Man In Black appears to only John and says "Help Me." He does this so Ben gets further jealous that John has a direct communication with Jacob and he doesn't.
Later in Season 4: Keamy and the other Mercs attack Dhramaville with Alex as their hostage. Ben summons the monster/MIB. He shows up and attacks the mercs (Remember: Alex shut off the sonar fence, so the monster/mib was able to enter Dharmaville). He doesn't kill any of the mercs he shows up just to make sure John, Ben and company get out alive. Because he needs them for his plan.
When John later goes to the cabin Christian/Claire ( both claimed by the MIB) tells him he has to move the island. The MIB makes sure not to tell John how to move it. This is done on purpose. Because he knows John will go to Ben who will then move the island thinking Jacob wants him exiled. Now Ben is in the "real" world and is clueless on what to do. Since the Island has been the only home he ever really knew.
The flashes start to happen. Each is done with a specific reason to confuse John. In the first flash he goes from 2004 - 2007 where Richard tells him he has to die to save everyone. Who told Richard this? The MIB disguised as John. This is a paradox: Just like the compass, daniel's journal, Ethan (Ethan helped bring Juliet to the island, Juliet later in her present, goes to the past and makes sure baby Ethan is born safely), etc.
John then goes to 1954 and tells Richard to visit him after he is born. He does. The MIB has now tricked Richard into thinking John is special. John eventually thinks he can stop the flashes from happening if they go to the orchid station. He goes and he falls down the well when another flash comes.
Side note: Sawyer holds onto the rope when this flash comes. Daniel said that anything they hold onto seems to travel in time with them. So Sawyer brought the rope with him to a past time when the statue was still up. This rope now stays in this time. Sawyer has most likely led to the wheel and time travel being discovered. Egyptians or some early natives will discover this rope in the ground and dig down and find the wheel and eventually build the well. This is all because Sawyer held onto the rope and it flashed with him. This is another example of a paradox.
Back to the Loophole: John has fallen down to where the wheel is. Christian Shephard (claimed by man in black) tells John that he was SUPPOSE to turn the wheel. He really knew John would go to Ben, which is why he didn't tell him how to move it in the cabin. The MIB wanted Ben off the island so he can kill John. So now Christian tells John to save everyone he must turn the wheel. He also makes sure to tell John information on how to get back once he has everyone: see Daniel Faraday's mother and the former leader of the others- Eloise Hawking. John agrees knowing he will die and accepts this fate to save the island/everyone. The flashes stop. Sawyer and company are now in 1974 and will be there for 3 more years. The wheel turn flashes John to the Tunisia desert in 2007.
Ben eventually finds out that John is back. He stops John from killing himself because John has information he needs. Once he finds out he needs to see Eloise Hawking to get back to the island he kills John. The MIB knew this would happen. Because he knows how jealous and how much of a threat Ben saw John as, since Richard and company felt he was special. Because in the cabin he thought Jacob communicated with John. Because the island healed John and it gave Ben cancer ,etc. So now John is dead and Ben organizes the troops. Eloise Hawking says that if not everyone is on board the Ajira 316 flight that the results could be "unpredictable." They are: Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid are flashed to 1977 to join Sawyer and company. Sun, Ben, Frank, etc land on the runway on the smaller island that the others had Kate and Sawyer work on. It's still 2007 for them. Jacob ordered the runway to be built.
John Locke's body has now come back to the island. The MIB now takes the disguise of John. He brings Ben to the monster (himself) to be judged. Normally he would most likely not let someone who broke the rules return to the island. But he needs Ben for his plan so he gets a pass. MIB now in smoke form becomes Alex and tells Ben he will listen to everything John Locke says or he will hunt him down. The MIB as John then tells Ben to come with him and Richard on an errand. That errand is for Richard to tell a time traveling John Locke that he has to bring everyone back and has to die to do so. Thus creating a paradox and ensuring that he will be able to take over John's body in 2007. He asked Ben to come with him on this errand so he could pretend that the island told John what to do. To further make Ben jealous that the island never told him anything. He reminds Ben that Jacob was the one who exiled him, allowed Alex to die, and gave him cancer. He of course actually did all this. But he says this to make Ben more angry and capable of killing Jacob for him. Jacob allows Ben to kill him, he wanted to die. It's part of his own loophole. He told the MIB on the beach that when he found his loophole he'd be right there waiting for him. He believes in humanity and I believe he thinks it will save it's self. As he dies he touches Ben, certainly worth noting. He also says "They're coming" - this is everyone in 1977 being flashed to 2007. Now the lines are being drawn for the upcoming war.
Namaste! -
No one can fucking read that. Try using some spaces or something. Christ man. Gives me a headache just looking at it. Sorry, I'd love to read it...but I'm not going to.
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so it is spaced out and easy to read? I wrote my previous post with a bunch of spaces, how do I properly format on the talkback
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Without the spaces between the directly around it creates a space.
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Without the spaces between the " directly around it creates a space.
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I'm pretty sure his beating up of one of Ben's agents (on the videotape) and his bidding on the Black Rock journal were all just parts of his various attempts to get back on Island.
It's too bad for him that he and Eloise are clearly on the outs, cause she seems to be the one person capable of getting people back there... -
There are some who will pissed off though if we get 15 minutes of exposition in the penultimate episode. Why not do that 15 minutes mid season, and do the character based story telling as a consequence of the mysteries being resolved. I'm not saying this is my view, but I can see the fear some have that it shows a lack of faith in their own writing if they think the lure of the show is to continually have unexplained mysteries. For instance, I watched the season one finale of Veronica Mars again recently. That was a fun show, novelistic in that it had these nicely building mysteries all year long. But it really is crazy how one thing after the other gets laid out in the final couple of episodes of season. It might have been better doing that over five episodes, so instead of a cinematic rush of revelations and action, the characters actually get to walk around in this world which is rapidly changing for them. As somebody argued above, if you hinge everything on mysteries and twists and reveals without giving time for the characters to live with the consequences, that isn't storytelling so much as exposition, and it has the effect of suddenly invalidating the world view the characters had for 99% of the time the audience has been watching them. I personally don't want everything to feed into one gigantic pay off. Hopefully the mythology will be gradually laid out all season, building into some new unpredictable story element that follows naturally from how the next few episodes changes the characters. I don't want everything to suddenly change right at the end, to a dramatic sound track and a big explosion, with no time for the characters to really experience anything.
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The SmoKEY that unLOCKEd the.....Magic BOX??
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This was not some estranged plot element from one of the early seasons but was introduced well after the writers supposedly "knew" their end game. We better find out why there is an underground cavern that houses a wheel that moves the island through time and space when turned, and who built it. If the writers came up with such an over the top plot device with no means of explaining it they should be dragged out of the writers room and shot.
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It sounds like we're pretty much on the same page...the only thing is this..there is no winning scenario. If they do the laying out of answers sparsely through the whole season, the people in these talkbacks, instead of getting their one awesome episode they were always waiting for...they will call every episode filler. "Yeah..we learned (insert one mystery), but other than that, just a bunch of characters running around doing nothing" for every episode. As I said, I care more about the people than the mysteries, so I'm happy either way. My biggest desire is to have a satisfying conclusion for Jack that deals lays the hammer down on both his virtues and his massive flaws. That is the heart of Lost for me. What the fuck is Jack going to do? But that's just me, I know a lot of people seem to hate Jack.
What you were saying about shows like V.Mars, and basically every other show ever made, holding off answers for their season finales...it seems to me thats just how things are done. If you reveal things too slowly, over episodes, people figure everything out too soon, before the show gets around to it in the finale. There are things in lost, that if answered prematurely, would destroy the tension of the show, imo. You reveal too many things, and you reveal everything. We're smart, they know we'll figure it out if they give us too much. Like it or not, ratings matter, and finales are big business. I think the series finale of lost is going to be two hours, and the first hour will be answers and mysteries revealed etc etc, and the second hour is going to be all character. All jack, kate, and sawyer, and maybe some Locke, all over it. It will end with our characters. Not their mysteries. -
With those time flashes, instead of having them witness a few events from past seasons, to actually have them participate in something, totally unexpected. Which rather suggests they were dreamt up a bit late in the day. I do think there have been times when it's been opening episode - filler - closing episode, with a lot in the middle just being a stalling action ready for the finale. HOWEVER, that's only in terms of season arcs. A lot of mythological stuff and flashbacks and character stuff works pretty well on a stand alone basis, and adds to this prismatic overall effect of the show. Some times the serial aspect is a bit of an illusion for weeks at a time, but I'm okay with that. Whole groups of characters and story lines have a tendency to go AWOL. But it leaves things like the freighter and whatever seeming more important than they are because they're around for so many more episodes than they need to be.
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I am confused. Many of you are saying that Christian says "So it begins" after Vincent runs off. Was this recut and aired during one of the catch-up specials? When I first saw it I remembered Christian saying "Find my son, he has work to do". I found the clip as I remember it on YouTube. http://tiny.cc/BpNBn If the creators did re-cut the clip, is that significant? Does it change the meaning? Interesting if they did. Thoughts?
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That would really fuck with the fan theories.
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Christian doesn't say "and so it begins" which is unbelievably cheesy and stupid. He says "He's got work to do."
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While the wheel itself may no have been thought up until Season 4, I think it's safe to assume the writers had the idea of the Island being awash in space/time for quite a while.
So even if we don't meet the man who built the wheel, it can be chalked up to humanities various attempts to control the Island's magic/electromagnetic properties over the centuries.
We need more clarification on what the Island is of course and what it's powers are, but is it really a deal-breaker if we don't find out precisely which ancient civilization on the Island decided they would try and exert some control over this place?
It might be cool to learn some of these things, and maybe we will, but I have a feeling many of them will be implied in the bigger answers of what the Island is, when/why did Jacob and the MIB arrive there, and for how long have they been bringing followers to the Island to do their bidding/protect the place. -
He just says "I need you to go and wake my son up...he has work to do." Which is fucking awesome, but not terribly revealing.
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Sorry about that - I think that's the actual NAME of that missing pieces episode.
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I feel like nobody caught that one giant easter egg:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAdjLVXZXwA -
Feb 16, 2010 10:26:16 AM CST
Trying this again hopefully works. If not Crow mind copying and
by cekma
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Can have their cake and eat it. They can set up a twist, drop some red herrings, pay it off - and then keep going and do something else afterwards. I feel LOST has been creative with it's narrative structure to engineer some big cliff hangers and reversals, but it's been a bit too cagey in laying out much detail about what's really going on. Now maybe there's some grand strategy that's just going to cascade from one story into another as the show climaxes, but I do wonder, entertaining as some of seasons have been, whether those stories could have been told faster, this season have happened sooner, and then something ELSE happen after that. Risky, I know. Telling us who killed Laura Palmer might give us the very best episodes, but what if then there's nothing left? Now Lost succeeded where Twin Peaks failed - it didn't get cancelled and has been allowed to play out its mythologies. In fact maybe we are now seeing characters trapped in the Black Lodge and the White Lodge. But LOST seems to have chickened out of revealing who killed Laura Palmer early in the game, if you see what I mean. Maybe it would have been a disaster. But these writers have thunk quickly on their feet after early mistakes, so maybe it would have been a challenge they could rise to. The other thing I think about mysteries is take a detective story. You need two narratives. The mystery of the detective solving the case which the audience reads, and then the back story of the murder, which the writer works out but witholds for the denouement, at which point he burns through what he needs quickly. Now LOST has fucking time travel. They could show us the mystery first, drop all the answers, then take us back into the world where the mythology was forged. Instead, we're getting a lot cagely done at the last minute. Now, for a show praised for its narrative structure, I think that's a bit too conservative, for arguments sake. The thing I also think about twists and mystery reveals is you can infer things and suggest them, and in doing that, play out multiple posibilities and have them linger in the imagination, without actually letting all of them be what happened. LOST is doing a good job on that front, I think. So maybe that's the upside of delaying. You can have the illusion of the story being all things, before deciding which way to settle it.
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No reason to recap the entire episodes. Here's a few bullet points on what is going on right now. * Remember Hurley and Miles conversation last season about Time Travel? Miles argued that "Whatever Happened, Happened" and Hurley argued "That they could alter events", according to what we are seeing: both are right. The universe we have always known (seasons 1 -5) I'll refer to as the WHH universe... Whatever Happened, Happened. They always crashed, Desmond always failed to hit the button, the Freighter always came, the 6 always left, the rest always time traveled, etc. It was their present while being in the Island's past. When Jacob died and said "They're coming" he was referring to those in 1977 being flashed to 2007 where Richard, Ben, Sun etc. were at the foot of the statue. We see that the hatch had been built and "WHH". This is the universe we have always watched. This is 1 thing that happened at the bomb site. The other is...
Juliet activated the bomb and the plan worked. They wiped out all that energy. The island submerged to the bottom of the ocean. Sometime in the late 70's I suppose. There was enough time for people like Ethan and probably Ben and his Dad to evacuate the island with the rest of Dharma. So none of these people grew up to be "Others." This is the Hurley arguement: "The reset universe." Imagine time as a straight line. That line is continuing and that is the WHH universe that we know. This reset universe is a fork in the road created by the bomb working. So in this universe they never crash, the island no longer exists. Yet somehow fate is bringing them together. Jack has a cut on his neck similar to when he crashed, Kate and Claire are still tied to each other, Jack and John, Ethan/Claire, etc. We'll continue to see this all season long. Notice when we cut to these "flash sideways" we no longer have the flashback "woosh" sound. It's been replaced with the sound of the time flashes. Because this universe is very much real. It's not an alternate, it's a parallel. These versions of the characters are very much real. Why should we care about this universe? We have no investment in this version of the characters? I believe we will see down the road somehow these 2 universes will "bleed" into each other. How? That's the million dollar question. These deja vu moments the characters are having with each other are certainly hints.
I also believe Widmore is alligned with the man in black. That's why he told John Locke that a war was coming, and in order for the right side to win he had to be back on the island. What he didn't tell John was for the "right" side to win, John had to be back but he had to be back dead. I believe Widmore is also the person who kicked some of the ash out of the cabin back in the day. Man in Black has now been coming and going from the cabin as he pleases. I believe Widmore ordered the purge of Dharma. Eloise was gone from the island at this point. I believe Widmore made sure none of the dharma folk were properly buried, but instead placed in a pit. He did this so the MIB could have acces to them. That's how the MIB as Horace Goodspeed visited John in a dream and told him how to find a cabin. He has known about Locke for awhile. He made sure his employee Matthew Abbadon motivated John to get on Oceanic 815 to ensure that the events that would follow would happen.
Speaking of prisoners: I think the man in black's line to Richard about seeing him out of those chains has a double meaning: He was on the black rock ship. He is "free" of having to take orders from Jacob. Richard and Man in Black certainly have a history. Dating back to that day that we saw last year when Jacob guided the Black Rock to the island.
"Aldo" the other who was killed by Claire and is on the show" It's Always Sunny..." was in a season 3 episode. That whole line to Kate about the prisoner trick was a reference to when her and Sawyer knocked him out to go into Room 23 on the smaller island to help Karl, Alex's boyfriend, escape.>
Personal Thoughts I'm being patient with the parallel universe because I feel we'll get a great payoff for how both universe's play into each other. I still hope the real locke comes back to life. I think the parallel universe story will climax with Jack fixing John. I am sticking to my guns that the real John Locke is "What Lies in the Shadow of the Statue." And that Walt's dream about John being back on the island in a suit with people around him wanting to hurt will still be seen. I believe the only person who will believe that it's the real John Locke - will be Jack. I still think that when John first saw the monster, he saw a different monster: Jacob as a bright light. Remember John told Eko he saw a bright light. We'll see. In the end I think John, who we were duped into believing was special. Will be seen as the most special of all: by being the first to come back from the dead. I think that's why we keep being reminded that when you die, you can't come back. So we won't see this coming.>
When John and Ben go to the cabin The Man In Black appears to only John and says "Help Me." He does this so Ben gets further jealous that John has a direct communication with Jacob and he doesn't.
John then goes to 1954 and tells Richard to visit him after he is born. He does. The MIB has now tricked Richard into thinking John is special. John eventually thinks he can stop the flashes from happening if they go to the orchid station. He goes and he falls down the well when another flash comes.>
Back to the Loophole: John has fallen down to where the wheel is. Christian Shephard (claimed by man in black) tells John that he was SUPPOSE to turn the wheel. He really knew John would go to Ben, which is why he didn't tell him how to move it in the cabin. The MIB wanted Ben off the island so he can kill John. So now Christian tells John to save everyone he must turn the wheel. He also makes sure to tell John information on how to get back once he has everyone: see Daniel Faraday's mother and the former leader of the others- Eloise Hawking. John agrees knowing he will die and accepts this fate to save the island/everyone. The flashes stop. Sawyer and company are now in 1974 and will be there for 3 more years. The wheel turn flashes John to the Tunisia desert in 2007.
Ben eventually finds out that John is back. He stops John from killing himself because John has information he needs. Once he finds out he needs to see Eloise Hawking to get back to the island he kills John. The MIB knew this would happen. Because he knows how jealous and how much of a threat Ben saw John as, since Richard and company felt he was special. Because in the cabin he thought Jacob communicated with John. Because the island healed John and it gave Ben cancer ,etc. So now John is dead and Ben organizes the troops. Eloise Hawking says that if not everyone is on board the Ajira 316 flight that the results could be "unpredictable." They are: Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid are flashed to 1977 to join Sawyer and company. Sun, Ben, Frank, etc land on the runway on the smaller island that the others had Kate and Sawyer work on. It's still 2007 for them. Jacob ordered the runway to be built. John Locke's body has now come back to the island. The MIB now takes the disguise of John. He brings Ben to the monster (himself) to be judged. Normally he would most likely not let someone who broke the rules return to the island. But he needs Ben for his plan so he gets a pass. MIB now in smoke form becomes Alex and tells Ben he will listen to everything John Locke says or he will hunt him down. -
Two realities + 45% commercials = very, very little story-time. I bet the Locke scene is the last 2 minutes of the episode but hope not...
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well in the alt universe I am
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I helped you out, and have begun reading...I'll give you one thing, that theory wth Sawyer holding the rope, which leads to the digging of the well, because the rope was there, which leads to the donkey wheel, is fucking awesomely brilliant. I love it when people figure out shit like that. The future informing the past, the rope creating the well, our lostaways being directly involved in the islands stories history...well fucking played. Everyone should read that.
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Shame on you. That is the worst video ever put on youtube. Ever. Stop trying to trick people into watching someone something so horrifically awful. Honestly, did you make that? Shame on you. Stop peddling that crap here. It's honestly unwatchable.
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The battlestar 'out of control answer train' was a disaster, no one was given a chance to deal with anything presented and god did it all, etc, getting fed up hearing myself whine about that one
This is precisely what I dont want to happen, I want our beloved characters to ask logical questions, get answers and deal with them. I dont need every mystery solved but why turn down the chance to develop these charcters with more information rather than the current style of blindly stumbling forward towards the answer train and going ooooooooh, what?! BAM! the end. You work it out! we're geniuses.
and just because poking trolls is fun, its not seven full length movies screen time because half each episode is flash sideways, (which i will happily be proved wrong) going nowhere, 10% of the remainder people asking 'what is going on' and getting no answers and 10% people asking 'do you know what is going on?' 'no i dont either, shall we ask him?' - satarded disclaimer -
1. Watch Season 1
2. Watch Season 2
3. Alvar Hanso/Dharma/Numbers video - This was part of "the lost experience" between seasons 2 and 3. While the lost experience it's self is not part of the story. Producers have confirmed that the 1st part of this video with Hanso and Dharma and Numbers is. The 2nd part of the video with the girl hiding with the camera don't watch. Just the 1st 4mins/ hanso portion matters with the show...
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Sri_Lanka_Video
4. Watch Season 3
5. Lost: Missing Pieces - These are minisodes that provide small bits of new info on events for seasons 1-3. They are in the bonus features of season 4 dvd. Watch these before season 4. Some are pointless but still fun. They were mainly made because Michael was coming back to the show and they wanted to somehow feature more with him along with more of what Juliet was doing during seasons 1 and 2. Some good stuff with Vincent the dog and when the others had Walt. Here is a link if you want to watch them online, just scroll down to the 1st one. 13 total...
http://lostmobisodes.blogspot.com/
6. Orchid Orientation film outtake. In the season 4 finale you see most of the orientation film. This clip provides a little more though then whats seen on the actual show...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bTvAUVPyLI&feature=player_embedded#
7. Watch Season 4
8. Watch Season 5
9. Mysteries of the Universe the Dharma Initiative - 5 part unsolved mysteries type 1980's conspiracy theory show. Provides more info on Dharma. Creators did this because there not sure how much more of Dharma they will have on the show. It's on the season 5 dvd bonus features. If you watch online you need to select part 1. Part 5/final part starts playing right when you go to the page..
http://abc.go.com/shows/lost/lost-mysteries.
10. Read The letter of Truce between Horace Goodspeed/Dharma and Richard Alpert/Island Natives. The front is Goodspeeds letter with Alperts notes. The back of the letter is Alperts changes. Here is the link...
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Truce
11. Finally... Season 6!
12. Cry that Lost is over. -
I'm an idiot on this talkback formattin! If you enjoy it and don't mind putting the rest in I appreciate it.!
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Satisfy my curiosity: From where are all you LOST morning talkbackers talkbacking? For example, I'm at my desk at my crummy day job (business analyst, Baltimore), pretty much just checking talkbacks. Might go to the bank in a minute.
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With commercials, and your "20% retardation" asking questions thing...four movies is still a hell of a lot of time.
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Stay-at-home daddin' it from the frozen hell that is west Michigan.
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Nice Job, it's like you swiped a mental snapshot of the writer's whiteboard flowchart... So do you think that all visions/visitations of Christian are MIB??? He's definitely dead in both timelines, right?
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Albuquerque, NM - worst place in the US. Sitting in the office and obviously working hard.
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Day Job, Orlando, FL
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C'mon, dude. Albuquerque? Worst in US? I'm sitting in a blizzard with another foot predicted after living in L.A. for 5 years. NM sounds pretty fucking good right now.
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If Charles Widmore is never on the show again, I'll consider a bunch of LOST a massive fail. There are a select few things LOST can do, or neglect to do, that will break my heart and result in me being disappointed in the show overall. It'll never destroy my incredible love for the enjoyment the show has given me over the years...but it still has to assessed objectively. No Charles Widmore in season 6, no resolution of the rules or the war, means a huge fail. But...I don't believe that will happen. He will definitely be back, and probably play a major role, imo. Neglecting the sickness entirely, which after last week looks extremely unlikely, would also result in a significant fail. The Walt stuff is the only thing I have no hope of resolution for...and thats a fail. But I forgive it, because there is so much other interesting stuff, and its not their fault. The kid grew up, and its hard to deal with that. I would like to know what Michaels role in Smokey/"Christians" plan was in the long run. Why was he on the freighter exactly, and why did christian say "you can go now, michael." What did he really accomplish by coming back? Never clear to me.
But yeah...Widmore has to come back. Has. To. -
Yeah, I just had a weekly meeting where I had to give status updates. I wanted to deliver a gem, like "I located the interview where the LOST showrunners admit that some episodes suck balls. Presently insisting that Dave is inconsequential."
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Some people love ABQ, some don't. I came from Fargo, ND and lived the last few years in Missoula, MT. I hear you about the snow, but honestly I miss it! Something about ABQ just doesn't click with me. Stay warm.
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I agree with a lot of your analysis.
I hope that Sawyer/Rope thing does pan out. That would be really neat for them to show.
The only thing I would say that I hope gets better elaborated upon is why some Ajira 315 Fliers were zapped to 1977 while others weren't. The results being 'unpredicatble' doesn't fly for me since four of our heroes were sent to the exact time at which they needed to match up with Sawyer and Co. and be a part of The Incident. There seems too much of a designing hand at work here for this to be unpredictable results.
My guess is that even as the MIB was influencing things for Jack to bring Locke's body back, Jacob was influencing things so that his playing pieces would be able to ensure that "The Incident" goes down (Whatever happened, happened style). I'm hoping the importance of "The Incident" to the entire history of the island and the Jacob/MIB conflict becomes clear soon... -
I hope. That's still a lot of time though. 10 full hours, through 15 episodes. That's a lot. So the reality is somewhere between my estimation of 4 full movies or 7 full movies. More like 5ish.
Or think about it this way...4 Dark Knights. That movie is jam-godamned-packed. 4 Dark Knights of LOST left. -
Maybe I'm in the minority - well I must be here anyway - but I actually agree with the Lost showrunners that it is primarily a character-driven show. That's what I liked most about it, what kept me watching those first two or three seasons.I honestly don't know how one could really call the assertion that it's mainly a character show BS because the proof is in the pudding. From day one, the show has been 90% of time spent on character stuff and 10% on mystery stuff. At least until season 4. And truth be told, the sped up and more plot- and mythology-driven version of the show is a little less appealing to me. I think it was a necessary change and the right thing to do but I still kind of miss the more languid pace of the first couple seasons.
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Thanks buddy.
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Regarding Michael's role in Smokey's plans - I guess the big question here is did Smokey want the O6 off Island to begin with? Is there a reason in his plans that Locke had to die off-island? If so, then that explains Michael's role in his plans... but I wonder what the reason for needing Locke off-island would be...
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I think what made me think about this was someone posting that the Dave episode was meaningless or useless or whatever, and I just completely disagree.
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I don't think we will get the rope thing on the show. I think it was just something to figure out on our own based off info the info we were given.
Besides Eloise saying the results were unpredictable, I'm ok with just assuming Jacob flashed people to be where they needed to be. Maybe we will get more on this though.
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I'm still pretty new here and I think you are as well, and I'm not at all trying to tell you what to do, but lostboytexass doesn't actually want to debate the show at all. He just wants use homophobic epithets and claim he has more talent than people with fans in almost every country on the planet.
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Honestly, even the "mysteries" of the show that are the most compelling, revolve solely around characters. Richard Alpert, first and foremost. That guy is a character entirey unique to the LOST world, we know almost nothing about him, and yet I care about him. He seems mostly sympathetic, yet pragmatic and ruthless when necessary, not an idealist. Those are real character traits about a guy who we know nothing about. And its because of things like that I care about why he doesn't age, and what his role is in this whole drama. Not just because of the fact he doesn't age for some reason. Alone, that's far from compelling.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Jack Shepard might be the best "character" ever written for television. Desmond is my favorite character, but Jack is just so...consistent. And flawed. And noble. And hes sometimes annoying for all these reasons, yet infinitely compelling. I know lots of people don't like Jack, because hes a bitch about kate and doing things his way sometimes, but thats just because hes so consistent. I've never thought "Jack wouldn't do that" once in the history of lost. Maybe he would ask more direct questions in real life sometimes, but everyone person on the show is guilty of that, its the nature of lost. Now don't get me wrong, I want to know what the island is as bad as the next guy...but I NEED to know what happens to Jack. Is he a tragic figure? Will he manage to break free of his flaws by the end of the show and do something truly great? My guts tells me no. He'll succumb to his weakness, to what his father always told him he was, he won't stop trying to "fix everything" and something bad is going to happen to him. but it'll be beautiful. it'll still require great sacrifice. Some people will have happy endings and some won't, but I don't know if Jack has earned his yet...and I love that. And that's just one character. There are at least 15 others whose fates I am nearly equally invested in. Those endings will be infitinetly more satisfying that finding out what the island is. That will come with a few lines of dialogue. I'm here for the story. -
When people discuss LOST, it's largely about the unexplained mysteries of the mytharc, not character examinations or "shipper" BS. The characters of LOST have everything to do with why LOST now has a fan base, but it's been 6 seasons of character development & mystery, & now we want answers! Certain episodes can be disregarded when looking for those answers.
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that I'll like how it ends. But I REALLY, really hope that the scene with Hurley and Jack in the.. lighthouse?... is not in the last 45 seconds of the episode. Please, please no.
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Not 100% certain. Jack saw Christian in what he buried him in. (season 1) Perhaps this was ghost Christian wandering around similar to Claire before the MIB claimed him? We will definitely get the luke/vader confrontation in Jack and Chrisitian, MIB is building an army of people who others will have a hard time being able to kill.
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c a n t o n r a i n i e r
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"He walks amongst us, but he is not one of us." You think Jack might be the Hero?
"I am dead, but I am also here." Remember when Ms. Klugh made Patchy shoot her? Or when Mikhail willingly drowned/blew himself up? Then there's the way the camera always seems to linger on the bodies of the dead. CANTON RAINIER indeed. -
Lindsey Baskum (the woman supposed to adopt Claire's baby) is an anagram for "Used by Malkins."
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I go to the experts." At Canton Ranier, if we don't get it right the first time, we come back and do it again and again and again until it IS right. Count on it.
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OtherJosh - I'm sure you're right, sometimes it's just hard not to resist replying! I've only been posting for a few months now, but have been reading AICN's acidic talkbacks for over a decade :)
Crow3711 - I agree with you about Jack. The fact that the writers were willing to take their hero from the first seasons and break him so completely through seasons 4 and 5 (resulting in the Jack of the first flash-forward in 3.22) is VERY gutsy on their part and absolutely compelling. His need to fix things is both his greatest asset and greatest failing. Good stuff.
gotlik - ABC has been showing clips from the first batch of episodes in all their commercials. If I were you, I'd be more worried that that Jack/Hurley scene isn't even FROM this episode!
Cekma - speaking of Christian's clothes - anyone got any idea why they switched what Christian was wearing from when he first appeared in the Cabin onward? (Jack sees him wandering around in a suit, but Cabin-dwelling Christian, Christian at the Donkey Wheel, and Chrstian at the Dharma Barracks, is in a plaid shirt...) Also, remember when Hurley saw two people in the Cabin back in 4.01. Maybe It was the MIB and Christian's body. I don't believe the rocking-chair occupant moved... did he? -
First of all, hats-off to your "Answers Answers Answers"post - those are the exact words I want to SCREAM at all my naysayer friends who "watch" the show simply to prove to me that it sucks. So ridiculous.
In regards to your Widmore concerns - check out this link. http://tinyurl.com/yg8fl7y
Widmore will definitely be a big part of season 6. -
Oh, believe me I hear you. I've had to respond a few times despite my realizing it would amount to jack shit. I just wanted to make sure you knew it would never become an actual intellectual debate. But if you want to bone up on your talking shit skills by all means reply, he really does make a Hurley sized target with all his nonsensical bitching.
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For so long I have not been able to stand Jack. I mean, I didn't loathe him the way I do Kate, but at best, he was just kind of there. I never bought him as the hero he was trying to pretend to be, because his motives always seemed to be selfish and misguided (as people's motives tend to be in the real world). And I really couldn't get his logic as far as Jughead went. But since they've been back in 2007 on the island, something in Jack has changed. It's like we can slowly see him becoming the hero he is meant to be. It sort of feels like in the Matrix when Neo fully begins to become The One.
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Also, I rarely do this but I gotta ask, what does your username mean?
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fain88--present! Ready for Lost Day! YEAAAAAAAAAH!
8 hours. Just 8 hours till my Locke episode. Ehhhh...ehhhhh....ehhhh..... -
when Hurley saw Christian in the cabin he was in the suit. Then we got a closeup of an eye (presumably MIB) so this was probably MIB "transferring" into Christian. I'm sure him no longer being in a suit will never really be addressed. As far as I'm concerned only thing clothes/hair wise needs addressed is Richard with young Ben in approximately 1973. Richard in the 50's and in 77 has short hair. Did he grow his hair out in 73 and run around in black rock like gear?
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I'm sitting in my art class, but it's my prep period now, so I'm breezing the talkbacks.
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You've inspired me to go to the bank as well.
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Nothing but good ideas, theories, etc. for the first part of our day in the TB and no longwinded gasbag arguments (yet!) Of course, now I said it, so cue Olivier Hague.
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How about this for the dual Christian stuff----
The Christian that Jack sees is just Christian's spirit. He's the one who appeared and talked to Vincent, and is similar to Charlie, Ana Lucia, any of those other 'ghosts' that Hurley's been seeing as well, who all seem to be working towards Jacob's ends.
The Christian in the 'Native Other' gear, similar to what Ruseau wore, similar to what Claire now wears, that's Christian's actual body. It was taken from the crash site before Jack could find him (hence, empty coffin), and either put into the waters at the Temple when they were murky or taken to what I postulate is the opposite of the Temple, MiB's stomping ground, where perhaps there is a 'dark' heling spring. This Christian, like Claire and the French Team and now Sayid, was Claimed.
Soooo...two Christians, maybe? -
What the hel is a heling spring, anyway?
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Thanks for the recap interspersed with your theories/explanations. I agree on just about all of it. Good stuff.
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Think of me as your Jacob. All you needed was a little..."push."
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...we'll find out why the "you" in question is there.... right? Looking forward to this ep. Especially the return of Katy.
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T-minus 7:30....
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They don't need to be in story speeches. In fact, one of the things Lost has done very well over the course of it's life is create and explain mysteries with visual storytelling.
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.. and 630 minutes is plenty of time to tell the tale, was just having a mini wind up there :).
I haved watched lost from the start and despite doubts have stuck with it, but a lot of what was entertaining was only entertaining on the promise of it being explained and relevant later.
for example, all the interactions in each others lifes in the flashbacks, I only find that interesting as there might be a more mythical connection to these characters fates, yet to be explained, otherwise its just a gimmick, and in the case of some scenes which only seemed to be there to cameo other characters, completely pointless.
now getting the answer right at the end is fine but I would much rather have it explained earlier and give the characters time to react to it, like the very brief time given to 'swayer' being lockes father.
also some threads do need to be addressed, imagine Babylon 5 if the motives of the Shadows and Vorlons had never been explained, the episodes with them manipulating things were exciting in a anticipatory way, you would be rewarded for taking in the whole novel, looking back and realising why certain things were done. The BSG way of 'you use your intellignece and imagination' is great for impact but gives the complete story no replay value.
finally, do you geniuinely believe that even half the threads will be tied up in the remaining time with their current method of storytelling? Much as I enjoyed 6.03 not a lot happened -
It was very prominent in the last one, sounded kinda like.. something old and wooden, rocking, ricketing..
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I think that's kinda the point being made. That LOST has done a great job of giving us bits at a time and telling us the story in unconventional ways, but that is why people cry "filler". Cuz it wasn't said flat out,"That is why such and so happened." I agree they do this better than almost anyone, but the bitchy people can't get past the fact that they have to think a little to arrive at a conclusion.
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I'll see your discussion of the new sound effect, and raise you;in the first three seasons not every-flashback,flashforward,flash-whatever, was accompanied by the wooshing sound. Sometimes it just cut away. So maybe these have been sound cues in the same way there are color cues. And this new sound is the first time we are seeing this particular iteration.
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I thought it kind of sounded like the plane when it started to creek and groan prior to the crash. I listened to it again, and it sounds more like what you said... wooden, rocking, etc.
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I cried filler at the last episode. Very loudly, in fact. I haven't changed my mind on that at all. However...I don't understand why a certain group of talkbackers (not you necessarily) have such a huge problem with anybody having a different opinion than them. It's like they feel threatened. Which is really odd, because it's just a TV show. I mean, if everything they've said turns out to be right, they can pat themselves on their backs and say, "see, I told you so!" But until then, these Lost threads have become just like the pre-Avatar threads. A bunch of people taking anything that doesn't jive with exactly what they "know" is going to happen lumping everything everybody else says into a satirical insult. It just makes no sense. Don't you have conversations, discussions and debates in your real life? Or do you just tell everyone you know how everything is and insult them if they disagree? Silliness. Especially because, as I've said 100 times, they don't "KNOW" anything. They're guessing just like the rest of us. Not go ahead and bash away (and you will, it's a certainty). I won't be back to this thread until after I've seen tonight's episode.
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I read somewhere in the talkback above that the creators said that Dharma won't be important in the grand scheme of things. I will love the show regardless, but I think that's disappointing if true considering how much time was spent on them. When Widmore said in S4 that the island was once his, we should have found out that he was the head of Dharma and wants the island back. Hanso could have been a pseudonym or something. I think that would have been a really great way of tying everything together, and I think it's kind of a missed opportunity.
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...the fucking dog is mostly forgotten. What happened to all the people who wanted a Vincent centric episode? lol gimme a break, a fucking dog, who cares? I´d actually like to see Nikki and Paulo back. Now, that´d be ballsy!
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I, too, appreciate visual storytelling in LOST. For example, we wanted to know what Danielle's colleagues' "sickness" was, & while we still don't fully know, the pertinent action bits in S5 went far to explain it. I don't want a deus ex machina explanation of all mysteries & unresolved plot threads, just answers. LOST has done much to keep fandom involved & hypothesizing regarding these mysteries, but often at the expense of scripting. There's been far too many moments of characters "conveniently" being ambiguous or dismissive for plot's sake, & it's pretty tired. It's not a big deal if a few episodes in seasons 2 & 3 were plot filler, but save yourself some time & see them for what they are!
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just got renewed!!
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his whole "my-baby's-dead-so-i-dont give-a-rat's-ass-about-anything-in-the-world"-sawyer is refreshingly believable and realistic for someone who had been had to go through that kind of lost.
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I'm very glad you said that. I really do try to stay open and not resort to emotional name-calling...mostly. In real life, I can talk to my wife and that's it, about LOST. None of my friends watch it enough to want to debate shit. So I come here to get that. So rather than alienate anyone who disagrees by telling them their kids a faggot or whatever else kidtexass said after ep 2, I try to be civil. But it's print, so I don't think it always comes across that way.
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Feb 16, 2010 12:57:12 PM CST
Any ideas on what "The Subsitute" may refer too?
by fox_cancelled_my_life
Ideas? I would think the most obvious would be Locke on the plane in S5 as a subsitute for Christian. There has to be some other ideas... you guys are better at thinking outside the box.
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If it does refer to Flocke, could this be an episode that devotes some time to backstory in the present day about smokey and the island?
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Just because you your brain is too tiny to grasp the pantheistic existentialism of BSG doesn't make what has happened to Lost any better. We have two forces on Lost who appear to be "gods" ie Jacob and the smoke monster. We even have avatars for the two. Just like we had Avatar Kara and h Avatar 6 or Avatar Baltar... two different forces were at work, ie the Lords of Kobol and the Cylon god who used to be one of them. Whether these were spiritual beings, aliens, or highly evolved humans with vast technology I am unsure - but what exactly is the difference between that and a smoke monster? OMG the idea of GOD is so retarded but a "SMOKE MONSTER!" and people surviving point blank detonations of nuclear bombs - that's realistic! Are you going to tell me that you will hate Lost if smoke monster and Jacob end up being "gods"? It may be likely because the Lost creators watched BSG like a hawk for every idea they could steal. At this point the difference between the two shows is that the plot kept progressing on BSG, rapidly in fact and Lost has slowed to a freaking crawl - and you know why? Because this show's audience now has too many middle aged housewives and it is focused entirely on titillating them! Hence the Young and the Restless style slowdown and the fact that the actors have stopped trying or caring and are just biding their time and "sniffing the farts" until the show is over. At this point an ending of even half the quality of Daybreak would be a welcome and pleasant surprise.
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I had thought about the two christian things. I like it.
Only reason why it might just all be one "dark" Christian is because when Hurley first saw the cabin and looked inside Christian in a suit was in the chair and then we saw closeup of an eye (MIB) so he might have taken the Christian body to the cabin to begin the claiming process. -
So, I propose, with a heaping dose of sarcasm and some admittedly goofy logic, that the Islands gotta be either an asteroid that Cthulhu lives in, a chunk of debris from the collision of the mythical planets Tiamat and Nibiru, or like some ginormous Monolith dropped here by some Ancient Astronauts so long ago that you know..like trees and shit have grown all over it's surface. And shit, if that's the case, it's obviously just the Starchild's Magical Mystery Island Playset (*Electromagnetism not included) that he got for his first birthday. Way fuckin better than some boring old bush baby!
"We are all Stardust." -
I'll have to go back and rewatch (and listen tonight) to the sound effect, but just reading that you guys say that it sounds old, wooden and rocking, could it be the sound of the rocking chair in the cabin?
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Feb 16, 2010 1:18:18 PM CST
my feeble attempt at describing the new flash sound effect
by billboefett
sounds wooden.. like a wooden rack, some casters or rollers.. being racked... if you've ever listened closely to the Colossus roller coaster at six flags magic mountain, as you're climbing to the first big drop... this is kinda like that, but in fast forward mode. I was thinking maybe... something on the black rock?
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Hurley after Dave? How about Hurley being the only one who could find the cabin, and also the only one who peeked in to see Christian Shepard and someone else's eye?
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Concrete answers to "Lost" questions?
OR...
Harry will actually post a current DVD New Releases column?
Wrong! The answer is C) The Detroit Lions win the Super Bowl vs. The Robots. -
needs to do some serious math. TDK wasn't 4 hours long sir.
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The only things I can remember him ever saying were to Kate and they consisted of things like "I wanna go home Mommy", "I want some milk", and the best yet "Juicebox!". The kid's got vision.
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My take is that they took the flashback/flashforward sound effect and added a "warping" element to it to make it sounds as if time itself is being bent, stretched, or distorted in some way. What I don't hear is wood. But that's me.
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i've been waiting 2 weeks for an episode of Lost to make me excited again.
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Last week was "just ok for me, dawg"..."not your best"...I think this one will be chock fulla great shit.
The new Flash Sideways sound FX soulds to me like a combination of the original flashback sfx...combined with the time travel flash sfx from last season.
The dull, subdued whoosh, mixed with the more mechanical, higher pitched squeal we heard right before a time jump. -
...that the flashbacks/forwards/sideways could possibly be being viewed by someone else other than us the viewers, like by someone or some group within the show's universe? Obviously Ms. Hawking and Brother Campbell keep an eye on Desmond, but what sort of technology might they have that would enable them to peer into someones past/future/alt? Could Smokey be a probing/scanning device that someone controls? Just a random thought.
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- NotSnitskeysFault - I'm with you on Jack this season. I think losing Juliet rocked him to the core. And the bullet he took for Sayid last episode was the most heroic thing we've seen him do in a long, long time.
OtherJosh - Sagacious being pretty much just a big word for 'wise,' I guess I've just always liked the contrast of such an erudite, pontificating word attached to such an absurd animal. Kind of sums up what I like to do on the internet which is "talk smart" about silly things like sci-fi shows, games, toys, etc. I know - I'm a dork ;)
Cekma & Fain88 - Good thoughts on Christian. Agreed. Though if there are two Christians, then one is probably just a body like one of the two John Lockes...
Jaka - Your points are all right, I think what some people respond to is incessant bashing from people who insist you must be dumb if you like/think X. It's the reverse scenario from what you've described. People get snippy whenever they feel they're being talked down to, on both sides of any argument. So if AwesomeScreenName traipses in here and says "Last night's episode said NOTHING WHATSOEVER in it and all of you who are gleaning things from it are WRONG!"... well then, people feel the need to backlash. Differing opinions don't incense people so much as differing opinions that dismiss other viewpoints as innately flawed.
BillboeFett - The new soud effect reminds me just a bit of the Smokey clickety-clackety, but even more so of the Donkey Wheel turning and/or off it's axis...
McGooCain - You know, you're right. Maybe the reason people filing around the "Filler" insult so readily drives me nuts is that I actually like the stuff that qualifies as "Filler." To this day, 3.10 "Tricia Tanaka Is Dead" remains one of my favorite episodes because of the humor, the great character work, the heart, and overall vibe of the episode... but that's pretty much all "Filler" in the eyes of those who use the word... Maybe it's just what folks use to describe any part of a show they don't like :)
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yes, many of us, even some of us in season 1 (me, others). Thought the final scene would be someone pulling back from a monitor, who has been watching the flashes this entire time. I don't think so now though
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...last season I dreamt I was on the island where I was in a loop where I would always die (forgot the 1st death was, but the sec one was the door of the plane blasting off and landing on me before it crashed)...and this mornin I awoke to another one...pretty much Sawyer (I think I was him) got bit by a blood and somehow the blood recomposed (or is it undecomposed?) Faraday underneath the ground (sorta like Juliet bein stuck in the hatch, cept he was surrounded by dirt and vines and such)...anyway, CANT WAIT FOR TONIGHT!!! GIVE ME SOME (GOOD) ANSWERS!
GO TEAM BEN/VINCENT! -
That's actually what I figured but didn't want to sound like an idiot when I said it sounds/looks like sage-like and you responded with no it's the main villian from dr. who's second season,newb.
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I was quoting Sagan, but that Joni Mitchell lyric really drives the point home.
@BillboeFett- aah, I'll have to search that out. I don't feel as silly for asking now. Okay, maybe a little, probably because I'm like six years behind on my theories. So maybe everyone's, like dead, and they're, like, all in Purgatory maan! -
s6 is 18 hours long. We've had 3 hours go by so far. 18-3 = 15 hours. 15 x 60 = 900 minutes, not 630.
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that was cool until the American Idol references. BLAH!! but, i suppose, all the TROLLS are the Paula Abduls of these talkbacks. i also like the new "swoosh" sound.
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You are indeed right that 15 x 60 = 900. However, we don't get 60 minutes of LOST each episode... more like 42 minutes.
42 minutes x 15 episodes = 630 minutes.
And to the nerds out there that saw the last equation and saw two of the Numbers, I applaud you. -
on the 23rd
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i think Mcgoo's math might be off but, i think he also means that ALOT of story and action was crammed into TDK. he's saying that if all that can happen in that amount of time we should be ok with Lost's 600 or so minutes left.
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agreed, and that was never in play for my math point. I for one want a gradual reveal, interlaced with characters and plot, and not just one big bam of exposition.
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...but it would be pointless seein as tonight, some crazyfuckery of info or character development will happen, neglecting all my theories...Ill still stand by sayin that the island will sink later in the season leadin to LAX reality...and that LAX is about righting wrongs from the reg reality (Charlie goin to jail which would be the end of his storyline IMO, Claire havin the baby, and Hurley not goin crazy) but then if I was right about LAX reality, then LAX would be totally pointless...to me, LAX has no drama going since we practically know whats gonna happen (esp after watchin last ep wit Kate...you think there would been somethin important that happened to Kate, but nope, it was just a Kate and Claire reboot story)...now unless Jacob or MIB shows up in LAX, then things will get interestin...but right now, LAX sux...
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The fact that the well-publicized ending-3-years-in-advance move by ABC and the LOST producers is driving people nuts, coupled with the fact that they've said its a serialization, with one continuous story. We know TOO much as viewers, and knowing insider network television business shouldn't taint our perception of the story or show. Is anyone here old enough to remember how it was watching TV shows in the 80s and early 90s, before forums, before talkbacks, before TMZ and AICN and gossip sites reported on what Damon Lindelof had for breakfast last Thursday? We didn't know what a hiatus was, we didn't care about ratings, and we didn't know that there was some imagined feud between the Heroes and LOST producers. We took in each new episode as it came, had no idea what was going to happen next, and enjoyed the hell out of stuff. Part of the fun was coming home from school, gettnig a snack, doing your homework, and then turning on the TV around 8pm to your favorite shows to see what would happen that week. 'Very special episodes' were actually cool and new and not a punchline. the phrase 'jump the shark' hadn't been invented yet by cynical youth who demand instant gratification to their too-short attention spans. Our increased knowledge of business transactions behind the scenes of TV and movies, and our increased saturation of interviews with producers, writers, and stars in our media obsessed culture in the era of 24 hour cable news and internet with a million blogs dissecting each day's train wreck, has really robbed us the suspension of disbelief and being the best audience we can be, just sitting in the boat and going along for the ride. Soapbox rant, over.
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they're just the land mass sticking its head up above the water, right?
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I'm just along for the ride. I'll reflect back after it's said and done on whether I like how it wrapped up. I'll also rewatch the series all the way through to catch things I've missed and piece together the clues and foreshadowing sprinkled along the way. Seriously though, I'd rather watch it and let them have their own artistic vision in creating the show rather than over-analyze and push for show creators to do something with their media (if they ever read this stuff). Imagine if Shakespeare wrote his plays and then bowed to popular sentiment how different (and terrible) Hamlet would be, or any other slow-burn/satisfying show just gave us what we asked for. How boring if House and Cuddy would be together for years now (and stagnant), and we'd miss out on lots of great reveals a/o the interesting bits that would get cut if they went straight from point A to point B (or C, if we told them going to point B was a bad idea). Sometimes you've just got to have faith in the writers (a/o directors, producers, etc.), whatever the media to follow their own vision.-Cheers
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follow the fans' requests and enhance their scripts accordingly. That's why there can't be a final episode written years ago as suggested earlier. The final ride will be enriched with our speculations and demands - not to the point where we are 100% right... Think of itas Dungeons and Dragons. The writing stuff plays the game master and we go on the journey. The endgame of the story itself is written in stone, but throw us stones and bones - according to our skills. I didn't recognize 6x03 as a filler episode; it was more of some slow pacing with hints of answers. Tonight seems to gonna be some kind of bomb - probably not jughead-like, but more fullfilling. Aren't we all just a bunch of children, eagerly awaiting answers, ice-cream and chocolate, while our parents try so hard to let us enjoy the journey? I strongly believe that after LOST's gone - for some probably years later - we'll be proud to have been part of this experience! For me it remains the most intelligent tv show ever happening!
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like a typical live audience goes to a stand-up comedy show. They WANT to be entertained, they WANT to have a good time, they WANT to laugh and already have a disposition to do so. If you think about the lines that most stand up comedians give, they aren't THAT funny, but delivered in a row, to a prepared audience that WANTS to laugh, and is anticipating laughing, it works. Look at the audience when the comedian comes out on stage, they're already smiling because they got in their cars, drove a distance, and came in the mood to be entertained. Now replace that audience with what seems to be a large number of LOST watchers here. No smiles, only scowling, droopey faces, bloodshot eyes, arms folded tightly, foot tapping on the floor, hoping for failure. Putting up the challenge "you'd better fucking be good or I'm so out of here" with an absolute pompous attitude. Cynicism, being jaded, hoping and anticipating failure.
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That's 42 x 15 episodes or 6 hours plus two shots at the chandelier, two at the lounge door, and one for the singing telegram. Either way, it's 1+1+2+1... or 1+2+1+1 which is...
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...I agree wit ya...before AICN I actually enjoyed movies...but now due to my impatience I cant wait to see and judge a movie based on MY THOUGHTS alone (and also due to my aspiring to become a writer, cuz Ill be damned if I write another script and Legion and/or Constantine steals my plot and props)...there was a time I enjoyed wrestling also...but one google search sent me to a site where they told you who would win the match, days before it was even aired or filmed...internet ruined creativity...but on the other hand, without the net, I would still be jackin off to magazines of still shots of women instead of seein any and every type porn I want (besides kiddie porn, ill leave that entertainment for those who "hate" HitGirl)...
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The gig's up, Scarlet. There are no more bullets in the gun.
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That was awesome. Some drunk buddies and I had the same convesation the other night. Imagine "Who shot JR" if were happening right now.
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we found out it wasn't all in Hurley's head, we found out why Hurley was in the mental ward, we probably saw Smokie up to no good, and most importantly, Hurley had a nice, sweet moment of acceptance and love from Libby, and they kissed. It was GOOD writing. It was sad and emotional and well acted. You don't need mythology and big reveals in every damn episode.
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...what bout who shot Burns?! remember it was a contest and everythin...funny thing, yourSTEPDADDY biologicalDADDY actually guessed Maggie...and he could have won a t shirt or somethin
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for those of you who saw that mobisode. It was pretty cool.
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over and over in various forums to give us a black rock flashback actually is going to pay off, or was in the plans from the beginning. SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS It was reported, possibly here, last year, that the LOST producers put out an ad to buy an old replica of a 19th century sailing ship. I think they ended up buying the real deal, and possibly 2 of them.
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...have a Vincent episode like the Nikki and Paolo ep...he will sit and watch while people explain stuff...and since he cant talk (that we are aware of CURRENTLY...dun dun dun) he wont ask stupid or unimportant questions...cuz I guarantee you, he has seen some crazy shit...like that one time Jack was tryin to go into Sawyers pants when he was recovering from the bullet wound (cuz come on, Jack has been actin VERY GAY this season...tryin his "have we met before" line on Desmond...tryin to coax Sayid into sodomy...last scene of the series will be of him coming out the closet)
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Don't post spoilers. Link to them.
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I do stand-up about twice a week, and you couldn't be more right. You see so many comics bomb because they think the audience is against them. As long as you can hook them out of the gate, you're pretty much golden. And LOST more so than any other show, in my opinion, had the best pilot I've ever seen. Firefly's was also pretty spectacular. Maybe I just have a thing for shows that have people getting sucked into jet engines in the pilot.
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...are you any funny? like could you outfunny Jay Leno? Carlos Mencia? Dane Cook?
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If you search Josh Guerrin on youtube you can let me know.
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...Ill admit, its very cheap lookin (but its obviously not your fault since its probably amateur hour at a bar or whatever) but ya got that confidence that comedians will obviously need...but I swear you could make your audience bust a gut if you mentioned the sadness that is AICN talkbacks...just dont admit you join in lol...keep up the good work!
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...you sure do say fuck a lot too...
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I bet if we do have an episode that deals with the Black Rock, it will be the Richard Alpert episode and it will also tell us a lot about Dogen and Lennon and some of the other Others. BUT, since we seem to be just having flash sideways right now, it seems that we might not have a flashback until this storyline is complete, meaning that timelines may converge sooner rather than later.
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Yes. 13th mobisode title - "So it begins.."
Its on the Season 4 DVD if ya have it.
But the title is telling.. -
Right on with your last post. It seems like we're living in a time where not too many people want to be entertained anymore. It's all about calling something out as being shitty before anyone has even seen it and then if it is they can gloat and if it's not they can say it sucked anyway. When did being a fanboy stop being about being an actual fan? Now being a fanboy eqates to mildly enjoying 1 out of every 500 things.
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Brill. For years people have yada'd "Vincent Ep" but yu actually tossed out a concept that would have actualy worked: fill in key flashback elements where Vinnie was present, watchng, reacting, being tossed a bone. that could be the metaphorical hook: giving out minor answers to long standing loose plot threads as "tossing the fans a bone."
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Do another Nikki and Paolo episode. NOT as a "Zombie Season" "what happened after they were buried and died", like everyone expects, just do half the ep with more flashbacks to things they saw and were tangentially part of - but with the added mythos. show their meeting with Jacob, how they found the Swan and bathed in the magic fountain. For the other half, flashsideways to the LA X universe and what would have happened to them and their stolen diamonds if they had gotten off 815 to LA. Not trying to be too mean to the "filler" complainers, but can you imagine the uproar that would cause? Imagine if there were 22 eps this season instead of 16/18 and they had time for stuff like that.
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Good episode. Liked it.
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...its cuz Vincent is the key to the shows Lock(e)...he will become Jacob cuz what does that old god dyslexic sayin go? God spelled backwards is...damn I forgot
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Really man? Really?
17:01:01 04.02.2010
http://tinyurl.com/ShipCreak
Ω
Go to tallshiprose.org - info - sounds. you can hear it there.
I was actually kind of torn as to whether it was the sound of the Black Rock ...or boating across the River Styx.
Black lake, black boat, two black, cut-paper people.
Where do the black trees go that drink here?
Their shadows must cover 'The Island'.
A little light is filtering from the water flowers.
Their leaves do not wish us to hurry:
They are round and flat and full of dark advice.
Cold worlds shake from the oar.
The spirit of blackness is in us, it is in the fishes.
A snag is lifting a valedictory, pale hand;
Stars open among the lilies.
Are you not blinded by such expressionless sirens?
This is the silence of astounded souls.
..sorry for the addendum Dead Sylvia. ..hmmpf good name for a band. -
I would like to see them in an off hand way like how we see Arzt now and again.
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And I don't mean to be rude by larfing at what any sincere LOST fan says. But I do get a mild chuckle when someone says things like "People don't care about the character development arcs" and "people care about the Island mysteries and getting answers to dangling questions."Well, no, those are what "you" - the hypothetical Lostie saying those things - cares about, "You" are not all people, you are just one person. Or you maybe legion and know you have many people who believe the same things you believe. You are still not ALL people, and you wants and needs to not negate the desires of those whose interests differ from yours.Since LOST was an expensive show, it was initially bought, as I recall, for 13 episodes. It was once it achieved smash hit of the year (or a two way tie for smash hit of the year with Desperate Housewives) back in 2004/5 that it was picked up for a full season. IF Lost had been canceled with 13 episodes - if a complete series boxed set was those first 13 episodes, we would have a lot of unanswered questions, and a lot of the island mythology that had never been touched on or, quite probably, even thought of at that time. But those 13 episodes, even without resolution to the intriguing questions they raised, would still have been fascinating stories that served well to introduce most of the shows (original) main characters. And I would have enjoyed them and having the show end would not change the fact that I enjoyed them, any more than it's premature cancellation robbed e of the pleasure I got from watching The Book Of Daniel or The Nine or Invasion or Eastwick. Sure it left me wanting more, but it didn't prevent me from liking what I got.What I liked about those first 13 LOSTs was the character stories. And my main interest is still in the characters. I have come to accept that in order to solve the mysteries and tie up the loose ends of LOST's convoluted plot, it has been necessary to repeatly change directions and introduce strange new elements; time travel, talking to the dead, ghosts, questionable physics and science, Egyptian hieroglyphics, religious and occult symbolism, supernatural elements. I still prefer the character elements and character developments. If the things happening on the island were not happening to the late John Locke and Ben Linus and the deceased Charlie Pace and the loving Rose and Bernard and the sarcastic Sawyer and the often confused Hurley, the show would be much less interesting. Cast a Lost-clone show with CW style model-pretty cookie cutter twenty-somethings and the same exact story elements would fall dead.
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First, the actual "cool news" left, then one of the only competent reviewers bailed, and finally the DVD column went MIA. The LOST talkback is the only reason left to come to this site...and that's only going to last another few months unfourtunately
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It was of a POV 'Crossing the Water' towards lightening and a 'flash' (boom) while mirror-ed expressions of the Main characters rotated ending on terrified Kate in the Magic tree.
How bout that.
The whole thing is Das Glasperlenspiel. There are no answers. There is no solution. The rules are nebulous and only alluded to.. There is only cognitive reverie, which too many have no appreciation for anymore.
Welcome to Castalia, Magister Brody. -
Feb 16, 2010 4:44:06 PM CST
Some slit nits over cynicism, Shark jumping, etc.Re: Billboefett
by tomonicker
As far as I know, not only are stand up audiences predisposed, they are also likely "warmed" up before the recorded portions.
The phrase "Jumping The Shark" originates from that Fonzie stunt in Happy Days, so while the Internet was barely conceived, Sharkjumping in practice has always been around.
True, me and my friends never had heated discussions about tv or film in that way, but in music, oh, dear... The best antidote to cynicism is being genuinely entertained; I barely thought at all about the hype and b.s. that floated around here before Avatar broke. Sure, I did think about it some because Avatar has some genuine flaws, but I was engaged enough that they didn't spoil it for me. Cynicism for me is not discussion, even criticism of something- it's pointless negativity coupled with arrogance. -
ABC gave the show a full run after the 4th Episode.
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Jump the Shark..the fonzie stunt. Some of us saw happen on big console tvs. What Billboe refers to, the idiom, did not make it into the lexicon until the Jon Hein in the 80's and wasn't really used 9outside of certain circs) until the 90's. Point to Billboe on that.
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What the hell is going on over there that people are posting that many times? Ok, back to Lost.
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The series should end with them alone on a beach and Nikki saying to Paolo "do you have any idea how much I want to kill you?"
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I never thought that I would one day type the sentence "I agree with anotherdeadkitten", but I fully do.
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is a star wars bounty hunter, no?
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Thanks for the kind words. Yes,
I say fuck alot. -
Let's say that early on - certainly not half a year before the series was sold. but during an early season - the writers had a clear idea of where the series was going but didn;t exactly have all the details of exactly how it would end yet hammered out. so let's say they had a writers meeting and asked "Well, how does it end?" and ideas were bandied about, some (It's a dream, it's purgatory and everyone died in the crash) were rejected, but a few decent ideas emerged, whittled down to a few, then five, and three, and finally two. So they had two great ideas on how to end the series. What to do? Which idea to use and which to discard?Perhaps that's why the series has diverged into "Crisis on Earth LA X" or "What if 815 Dinna Crash" territory? Maybe they need two distinct, unrelated, alternate story lines... because they have two endings?At the risk of invoking trolls, I am being optimistic. I think - or at least hope - that there is more to LA X FlashSides then just 'introducing new story elements' and 'trying to keep it fresh'. And I think/hope that neither alternate storyline will emerge as the "this counted, the other stuff, forget about that". Ideally, both worlds are part of the overall story. Because, really, other than Jacob or God, who could wake up to reveal that the whole LA X alternity was just a dream?
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Canton Rainier
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LoBat was mentioned a few years ago in a stand up comedy monolog by an African-American comedian. He was commenting on the jealousy of African-American women and referred to his girlfriend - or young woman friend, as we learned to say back in high school after bussing was instituted - grabbing his cell phone, looking at the display to see who he had been talking to, and demanded to know "Who is LoBat?"[which for the couple kids who don;t get it, is what a cel phone flashes on the display to indicate that the battery needs recharging. Low battery. LoBat.}
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the promos are showing clips from the first 5 episodes
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Hadn't really ever considered the Game at all. Seems LOST is as close as we've ever been to anything resembling the Glass Bead Game and it's "mode of playing with the total contents and values of our culture."
Unfortunately, we still have all these fuckin commercials. Kinda doubtful that the Game would pause every five minutes for a word from their sponsors, but, I'll take what I can get. -
Best Talkback of the year so far.Hard to determine the real character of a talkback hours before the program under discussion has aired, but a couple weeks ago we have Olive Hag droning on and in in halffoot thick blocks of text about how a season two finale did not meet his criteria, and plowing over the same material a multitude of times, repeating his claims to anyone who would comment on them.Then last week the pre-show chatter focused on LGILFS (Lost Girls I'd Like to Friend on Spacebook), followed by the resounding echoes of "filler", then a day or two after that, some sort of homoerotic troll gangbang.This talkback, in contrast, has been civilized, thoughtful and filled with interesting speculation. Admittedly quite a lot of it focusing on whether the Dave episode mattered, but still, a huge improvement in the level of discourse over the last few installments.And I am optimistically going to presume that tonight's episode is going to justify that degree of improvement.
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I feel like saying/expecting the writers to have had the ending fully realized at the start and if they didn't they suck, just shows your complete lack of understanding of the medium. Just look at something like Y:The Last Man. Sure Vaughn had the gist of the ending written but he had to start writing it with the understanding he may never make it to issue 50. Now that we have the complete story we can see he both knew exactly what he was doing but also did some things he didn't have to do. Doesn't make it any less one of the best limited series in the last half century.
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If world A is set in 2004 and world B occurs in 2007, I'm not sure how reincarnation (an anagram for Canton Ranier) would enter into it. We know 815 either crashed on The Island or landed n LA X in 2004, and there is enough evidence to convince us - well, convince me - that the current on island activities are a continuation 3 years later of that crash on 815. If the on island scenes took place in, say, 2107, then those characters might be the reincarnations of the characters who landed in LA X. But I don't see ow the 2004 characters could die and be reincarnated into the same approximate time frame.Perhaps, as is often the case, I am totally misunderstanding what is being suggested by the repeated references to Mr. Ranier's anagram, and perhaps someone can enlighten me as to how reincarnation could play a part in these proceedings.Oh, and Charlie not choking to death in both tie lines, Sayid revived, Locke surviving being shot and left for dead, Mikhail surviving a presumed lethal electric security fence sock, etc... those would be examples of resurrection, not reincarnation.
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I read an interesting theory, that, rather than only having seen 2 alt realities, we've seen like 50. All those little changes in a scene;fridge contents,Bens gunshot wound, are actually different iterations. If that is correct(which I doubt), that might explain/be another way of interpreting the concept of reincarnation.
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I meant to say shock. But, okay, I posted it, so I'll stand by it. the security fence 'socked' Mikhail unconscious.But enough frivolity. Can we agree that at some point Danielle Rousseau was mental as anything? For a long time talkbackers put credence in her statement that The Smoke Monster was "a security device" Eventually we were led to accept that not everything a crazy person says can be taken as canon.But her observation wasn't completely off the wall coocoo for cocoa puffs, merely confused. There was a security device, and it did have a direct relationship with Smokey. The Dharma Initiative's electronic security fence's specific purpose was to keep Smokey from crossing its barrier. So there was a smokey and there was a security device - Rousseau merely had the specif facts about them mixed up in her confused noggin.Or maybe in alternate earth 17-b, the one where 815 flew thousands of miles off course and landed in the Philippines, Smokey the monster really is a leftover Dharma security device made up of nanobots, just like people thought back in season two.
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Hmm, interesting that we both posted the idea f there being multiple alternate versions of the lost universe at the same time. Alternate thoughtlines?
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... reincarnation in another reality? Failure as discussed by Jacob/MIB. Those on island perhaps destined for failure/death/whatever at the hands of MIB following the death of Jacob. Those in LA X are Jacob's loophole, unaffected and untouched by MIB, reincarnated into a new reality where they atone for their sins and ultimately "win" Jacob/MIB's little game off island?
Fuck if I know ... just throwing shit around trying to see how reincarnation could work into it. -
... in order for their alternate selves off the island to succeed?Bah, this shit is way off base I am sure of it. Oh well.
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I really feel like there has to be one last big, 'what you thought it was, it wasn't' moment before the end. Showing us things we have already seen but in the proper context.
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...could have just been referring to only Locke being re-incarnated at some point. Seeing as how he was the freshest corpse at that moment.
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Unless you count LA X. Island Locke seems to be deader than a doornail. Flocke doesn't count. If it referred to Flocke, then Canton would have been a red herring.
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1) Kate is boring
2) Unrealistic escapes and fight scenes
3) Unrealistic character actions (ie, claire going with Kate, Kate finding Claire at the bus stop, etc)
4) Losties captured again
5) Losties escape again
6) Losties track down Losties again
7) Dogan allows Jin to go as well
Did not like this episode at all. This is not the Lost I have come to know. Hope tonight brings the magic back... -
Best explanation I've heard so far. It is, sad to say,the last thing I consider with this show. That maybe,just maybe, the writers know people obsess over every detail and they can do shit like that without ruining it for casual fans.
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...the reincarnated Locke. I meant that maybe Canton Rainier was only hinting at a potential reincarnation of John that's still yet to occur.
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Thought of that after I posted. Could be ... but I take it then, in that case, John would be reincarnated into something or someone else. As someone mentioned before if his body came back to life it'd be resurrection.Ben was driving the truck, maybe he'll have something to do with someone being reincarnated? Hell, he already killed Jacob, who might be looking for a body ...
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And maybe it's because I don't go dredging up spoilers, is how much of the show secrets that the producers have kept under wraps. Maybe I'm naive. Bless me. Honestly, I love the wtf moments, but for me, I'd have to say I was always in it for the characters... First it was Locke, Charlie, Sawyer, Sun & Jinn, then Sayid... etcetera. Granted, I first started watching LOST as a lark. Over the years, there's been missteps, screwjobs, and yeah, tripey filler, but overall, it's been a very rewarding show. I'm gonna miss it...
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Was that meant to be the LA X timeline where 815 just flies on by with no problem? Wonder when the divergence happened from the main timeline, island sinking and all that? Was it 1977 when the bomb went off? Or was it perhaps after that, from some other unknown event? Because really, how does an island sink. Would have to be from a massive earthquake or something. Or perhaps the wheel is turned at some point and the mass of earth that is the island is moved to a point in time where the sea levels are/were much higher than they are now and that is why the island is underwater?
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Real life got in the way for a few hours there but I'm back, with less than one hour to go. Glad to have rejoined you all. Others have said as much, but this really has been a great talkback..one of the best. Lots of positivity and people working together to figure stuff out. Love it. I've been telling people about Cekma's rope/well/donkey wheel theory all day long. I think, overall, the thing I will miss most about LOST, more than the mystery, the excitement, etc, really is how much conversation this shows spawns. There is no other show with talkbacks like this. Nothing compares. I love talking lost shop in here with you guys every week a great deal. I will lament the fact that Mad Men, 24, etc while excellent shows, do not warrant the kind of discussion LOST does. It'll be a sad, sad day when the LOST talkback disappears from the co-ax for the final time.
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So this episode has a kid in it, and it's called "The Substitute," so maybe the kid is a substitute for Walt? Hah! Y'all have all forgotten all about him, haven't you? Either that or it's Tom Berenger kicking inner-city high school ass ...
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It's the one thing i'm prepared to fully forgive the writers for abandoning. Maybe, if we're lucky, they will discuss Walt in some manner, and if we're really lucky, they'll have a line or two about what exactly was so special about him...but I'm okay if it doesnt happen. if they answer mostly everything else, either directly or through inference, I'm happy. Walt (the actor) grew up, the show time traveled, things got crazy, Michael exploded....I just don't see how to do it. If they find a way, more power to them. But I'm prepared to accept Walts arc as incomplete if I have to. it wasn't easy to accept...but I've found a way. The kid just got too damned old.
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Yeah, I was just having some fun. Walt is an artifact of Season 1, when they really didn't know what the hell they were doing or where they were headed. His conspicuous absence from the season-opening clip show makes me think they won't even mention him.
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His importance was hinted at highly in the first season, but you know his dad was such a douche that I can be happy to let it die. Walt's first scene with Locke on the beach was really creepy at the time when we knew nothing about Locke. Eep. Now, we all know they could find some way of shoehorning him in despite his gowth, but I'd rather they didn't.
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I prefer Treat Williams and the Kung Fu Yo-Yo!
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"What Kate Does" didn't piss people off because it didn't have enough "answers". It didn't piss people off becuase it was a "Kate" episode. It pissed people off because it was a poorly-written Kate episode full of implausibility AND not enough answers. News of Cuse still writing the finale makes people worry. Testing faith of those who HAVE been patient for 5 seasons and 3 episodes. We do care about these characters, and we don't want to see them go out like punks.
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we'll get one more visit from Walt, Eko, Penny, Faraday, Widmore? No spoilers please.
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because it didn't have enough of her ass, or any shots of her stripping down and swimming, or any scenes where she made out with chicks. At least that's why I was pissed.
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there had better be some Widmore in this season, in my opinion he is one of the bigger mysteries they introduced into the show...specifically since faraday and miles are from "his" team and boat, and the scene with Ben in Widmore's bedroom, and them not being able to kill eachother
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I love Lost. I love it passionately. If I didn't I wouldn't care when it felt like an episode didn't move the series forward. Also, I doesn't piss me off so much as it does disappoint me. Anyway, I'm going to watch the re-run of "What Kate Does" tonight and see if it hits me in a different way. I was so incredibly pumped by the two-hour LA X premier that I think anything other than another classic ep would have been a let down. With another week to think about it maybe "What Kate Does" will make more sense, or have more meaning. That's certainly happened with other eps when doing series or seasons re-watches.
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Maaaan, I hope so. But a lot of people seem to think that's not going to happen. Walt, I don't think so. Faraday, I do think so. But that's just my gut feelings.
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Penny close to that too, Faraday would be as close to that as well.
Walt and Eko, not so sure. Would love to see more Eko.
Walt will turn up with a greying beard and a voice like James Earl Jones..... yeah Walt is highly doubtful. -
Well put.
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And a few that are just awful, like shouldn't be working in the industry bad. What Kate Does was written by two of the very bad ones, and if you look at the previous episodes they wrote they were only decent compared to the shlock of What Kate Does.
To those trying to rewatch it hoping it seems better, don't bother. I tried it and it made me realize that I was being too kind to it in my earlier reactions. -
TV cranked :)
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Meant to mention of the three quotes you put up last talk back... the Citizen Kane grab was the one I was least sure of. Unrelated, but know what else? I never really liked Raging Bull either.
But the Kieślowski? I boasted on that because from about the 4th episode that was the vibe I was getting. Dekalog ..on an island and then with the connections Trois couleurs: Bleu, Blanc, Rouge and then La double vie de Véronique.
I swear I thought that Krzysztof was sitting on an island somewhere scribing this all. Or Dalrtonoff swiped it from him.
Ya have to admit the similarity of concepts and themes are stunning.
...HEEEEre we go. -
That's gotta suck. AND HE"S DOWN!
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LOLHey its Peggy!
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and the east coasters too I guess :)
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Wait, wrong show.
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Could the 815ers (or at least the main ones (Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Locke, et al.) all be reincarnated? Perhaps several times over? People seem to think Richard will be seen on the Black Rock in his ep. Maybe not. Maybe he'll always have been on the island with Jacob/MIB. Maybe the 815ers are in fact the past crew or passengers on the Black Rock? In fact, going all the way back to Egypt, maybe the 815ers built the statue on the island in one of their past lives. Jacob and MIB seem to be playing the same game over and over. Perhaps with the same pawns, who keep failing. Didn't Jacob say something like each time they get a little bit closer? Maybe 2004 will be the time they finally succeed?
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The reason why I say I don't think he'll be back is because the short scene with him last season, when Locke visited him, felt very much like a goodbye. But again, just a gut feeling.
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Also, in the Wire's second season.
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He has him in a SACK in a TREE!
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Going to wait for the DVR to build up a cushion then compress some time. ;-)
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After all these years, I would still tear that up.
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the flash sideways isn't an ALT or a different universe, its a new birth cycle, a new incarnation, for ALL the losties, and the entire world, including Locke. It has nothing to do with smokie taking his form on the island.
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But...I couldn't wait tonight. And that was...fantastic. Holy dogballs.
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...gotta run before spoilers pop up. Yaaaarg!
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when you're camping??
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Locke episode. I'm tellin' ya'. That's what I've been waiting for.
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Did anyone get a Jacques-Louis David - The Death of Marat vibe off that scene. It was Charlotte who killed Marat and said - "I killed one man to save 100,000."
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Mac from Sunny & Gemma from Sons of Anarchy? Smoke Monster is Vic Mackey!!!!!!!! They're all screwed now!
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PSYCH!!!
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GILF, seriously
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and dragged you around & tied you up in a tree. Friendsies?
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Important clue or toilet during set breaks?
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Bad actress!
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Just c'mon man. Buck up. Shit.
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I'm guessing clue!
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Lost is reminding me of the Stand more & more. Like Flagg [locke]meeting Lloyd [sawyer] in jail [grief].
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some sort of grave.
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"Will Kate choose Jack or Sawyer?"
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Someone needs to cast Josh in an Escape From New York remake!
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Geez even a dead Locke gets no respect!
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smokeman john and sawyer can see the kid, but richard couldn't?
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Dammit! :headesk:
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Get the fuck outta here because inserting Walt in this particular scene would have been awesome!
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from the 'Village of the Dammed'? Is he the ref in the Black vs White smackdown?
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it's future Aaron
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Stream of Consciousness....That's great, dude. They really delved into it. Awesome.
Lovin this episode! -
Ilana and Sun right there onscreen & you're reminiscing about your late 80's hard on for Katey Sagal
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No way! Cool.
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just don't give a fuck anymore. Love it.
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Why did Locke pretend there was no kid? Maybe Sawyer see a kid and NEW!Locke doesn't see a "kid"?
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then he says he's with Black!Locke because he has the answers...huh?
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of Terminal Cancer.
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asking questions...GUN IN FACE! He's also totally being conned right now.
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looks like a younger version of Jacob
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*boosh*
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as ever
GQtaste -
That's what I thought first thing too.
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Damn another wimp!
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This season is going to be great.
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killer deliver ..... Worst. Eulogy. Ever.
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Awesome. Ghost Morning Wood! Hilarious!
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Lapidus Rules
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with a scene of Locke being wheeled into surgery... or even better, walking out of the hospital. I kinda like the thought of that.
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if this ALT timeline has any lasting bearing, or is just some cool, extended "What if"
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Feb 16, 2010 8:43:28 PM CST
Yup, Ben confess to murder and no one jumps his ass!
by hollywoodhellraiser
Nice going Frank...you wimp!
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Is the entirety of Lost shaping up to be Locke's walkabout/vision quest/fever/wet dream? I don't like the thought of that.
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I would be totally creeped out if my finance ask me to open up a case and it was full of FUCKING KNIVES.
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Have to kill me first.
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Fuck that.
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Younger.
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but how did locke survive the fall? was jacob still there to touch him?
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STAT
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Black and white stones, and Names on the fucking wall.
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Feb 16, 2010 8:50:47 PM CST
Thought for sure Locke was setting Sawyer up to be killed.
by hollywoodhellraiser
And introducing your love one to a suitcase full of knives maybe isn't a cool idea!
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In the alt Locke didn't break his back in the fall. At least not after being pushed by his father, as his fiance' here mentioned his father coming to the wedding. So in this timeline they're on somewhat good terms.
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*shiver* Bad Voodoo chess game.
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I think it was everyone brought to the Island. "Jarrah" was not x'd out
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at least they didnt deliver him Jack's luggage, because she would have left him for sure
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Has this episode given us any more ANSWERS than last week's yet? NO. You just think it's a cooler episode because it's focusing on Locke and Sawyer instead of Kate and Claire.
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I thought there would be a drawing a an airplane on the wall, then little kids would come running out and start calling Sawyer, "Captain Walker."
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Locke and Linus as dueling teachers.
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When people cross paths in this ALT timeline, like when Locke meets Rose or Ben, they just play the creepy music as IF it means something. Still think it's cool, but they're definitely manipulating you.
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They *are* the numbers. Mind is blown.
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NICE.
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who thought Jacob touching everyone was significant. These flashes DEFINITELY confirm it was.
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Don't fall for it Sawyer!
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Wow... next protector of the island! And they are all the numbers... but what do the numbers mean? Do we know yet? Enough answer for you people yet??? Wow, this is just big stuff.
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Now we know whats going on!
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I wonder where Black!Locke & Sawyer are going to register?
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Fuck, being able to look at six years coming together here is getting Lost PRETTY close to ousting Twin Peaks, The Wire, and Sports Night out of my top shows.
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That is literally the only thing I can say.
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a good episode. phew.
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Feb 16, 2010 9:03:06 PM CST
Now while I digest tonite good episode, its time for...
by hollywoodhellraiser
National Lampoon Christmas Vacation!
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Okay, did all of the names on the wall have MANY numbers next to them, and then Jack, Sawyer, etc. happened to have the "pivotal" numbers next to them, or, were the numbers next to the names ONLY the pivotal numbers. If it was the former, then this pretty much is the explanation of the numbers significance; them representing Jack et al. Does this make sense? Did anyone notice?
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just showing "what if" for no reason will be a huge waste time.
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maybe i missed it but i didnt notice her name on the wall or Locke mention her. seeing as how everyone else was one of "the numbers", its interesting if she was indeed left out. a hint of her fate perhaps since i'm sure there will be at least one major death in the final episode.
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lol. I was wrong, reyes not crossed out. I need to watch this with my DVR feature on...
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The writers are never going to tell us all that we need for resolution and our satisfaction. It is just art imitating life.
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could they be the "what if's" if Jacob never interfered in their lives?
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DVR'd it at home only....so I can't scroll back n search.
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I'm glad they're getting down to the nitty gritty info. Somebody call Penn and Teller cause this is some bullshit! Biggest cocktease ever produced on tv! Adn the biggest waste of time.
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Sawyer and Shep would end up on the same side? Sawyer will probably sacrifice himself to save them all, in the end.
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anyone got the seating on the flight??
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Feb 16, 2010 9:10:23 PM CST
rocks in balance, then the "inside joke" tilts to Locke's favor
by planetran_fan
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I think I did see numbers next to other names... but not sure which names they were. Were they just other people on the flight who died? Were they names of people who had been "brought to the island" over the past years? That was an AWESOME episode and I think we will be significant impact by what is happening in the "sideways" flashes as well. Like the "inside joke" line when he threw off the balance. So will MiB and Widmore be tied together for both "breaking the rules" by killing someone? Should be interesting to see! So excited about the rest of this season yet sad about it being the last.
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Seriously, LOST is very close to beating out BSG as my favorite show of the decade.
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I think they are just fucking with us again
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Feb 16, 2010 9:11:47 PM CST
First they say they must show Others the face of Locke...
by planetran_fan
Then they bury him. WTF???
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Does anyone think it's significant that Sayeed wasn't touched by Jacob until after the Oceanic 6 were rescued, as opposed to everyone else who was touched before the crash?
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And all of the other names have various numbers next to them. One had 212, one had something in the 30's, I couldn't see very many, they were clearly very old, faded, and crossed out. Our survivors were "the numbers" 4-8-15-16-23-42. No Austin though, anymore. I paused and went through frame by frame. No Austin. Clearly, Kate sucks.
On another note, the reason why Sun didn't go into the past the way the others did, I'm going to guess, is because she isn't the candidate. Maybe it is the other way around, but it seems to me that all of the other candidates ended up in the past together, and Jin was there with them, and she wasn't. That would imply Jin right? They said they weren't going to tell us why Sun didn't warp with the rest, but the clever would be able to noodle it out. Is it that simple? -
Ok... I saw the reincarnation theory somehwere else, and didn't really like it.... but and if Im right remember where you heard it.... could it be that the numbers are the number of times each person had been reincarnated? Locke was the first "number" to die, and also the lowest number... he was only on his fourth incarnation. I really didn't catch the numbers that matched to each castaway so cant really further the theory...
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Jack was also in seat 23 on the plane, not sure what other significance this has but interesting none the less.
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Just blew my mind again. Fourth time this season, I think? This ep is proof that this show is NOT a cocktease.
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Anyone notice Lockes alarm clock was the sound of the countdown clock reaching zero. So when Locke described what happened in Australia does that mean what we saw in "walkabout" is part of the flash-sideways? Cuz if things are diffrent; he's with Peg, he has a relationship with his dad, then this isn't the same reality as the "walkabout" ep. Which calls into question whether we've just seen flashbacks from one reality the whole time or not.
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I'm not asking if there were other names besides the "cast" with numbers next to them, but rather, if the other names had numbers like 1,3,9,55 (any number that is NOT 4,8,15, etc.). If this IS the case, then I'd say this is the meaning of the numbers. Picking these numbers would be akin to naming Jack, Sawyer, Hurley...Also, wouldn't it be something if Jin became the island protector in the end? No one would suspect that, ha.
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I don't even know where to begin
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4 - Locke
8 - Reyes
15 - Ford
16 - Jarrah
23 - Shephard
42 - Kwan -
Feb 16, 2010 9:15:09 PM CST
The Numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42 are one of Lost's most prominent rec
by gqtaste
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Numbers
In the first season finale "Exodus, Part 2" Hurley sees the Numbers engraved on the hatch of the Swan. In the second season episode "Adrift" it was revealed that the Numbers are the code that must be entered into the computer in the Swan every 108 minutes (4+8+15+16+23+42=108). Entering the Numbers resets the countdown timer to 108 minutes. If the operator doesn't push the button in time, the counter flips to a series of hieroglyphs; during this time it's still possible to finish typing in the Numbers, press execute, and return the counter to 108 minutes. The crew in the Swan were supposed to be replaced every 540 days (108 x 5), which means that each crew would enter the Numbers at least 7200 times. In the fourth season episode "Confirmed Dead", a television news anchor reports that although the remains of Oceanic Flight 815 had been found, all 324 passengers and crew had been confirmed dead (108 x 3=324).
A worker constructing the Swan station in "Some Like It Hoth" referred to the numbers as a "serial number" for the hatch lid. The other worker had some slight difficulty in determining the final number as the number was smudged on his paperwork. -
Sorry it was row 23 not seat 23 and in LA X he was in row 24... a hint perhaps?
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i hope she dies soon
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I'm considering this an answer!
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I watched the lead-in LOST tonight and noticed something. When she and Jack part at the temple the chords to the music they played was the same a s when Charlie died. As when Juliet died in Sawyers arms. As when Boone, Shannon, etc. died.
Kates name was not on the cave ceiling.
One other thing - why does Flock not just leave the island? He's free, right? But he told Sawyer "We can just leave". Why we? Why not I'm outta here?
Curious....and a damned fine episode. -
She'll be the Island Protectors Grand Whore or something. She's there to make the job enticing. She doesn't get to be a candidate, because she sucks and is stupid, but I don't think she'll die. If she's not a candidate, why kill her? She has plenty of...uses.
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was also up there but crossed out.
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The music don't lie
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Could also be Ji Yon and neither sun or jin
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Damon Lindelof - "There are some questions that are very engaging and interesting, and then there are other questions that we have no interest whatsoever in answering. We call it the midi-chlorian debate, because at a certain point, explaining something mystical demystifies it. To try and have a character come and say, "Here is what the numbers mean," actually makes every usage of the numbers up to that point less interesting.
You can actually watch Star Wars now, and when Obi-Wan talks about the Force to Luke for the first time, it loses its luster because the Force has been explained as, sort of, little biological agents that are in your blood stream. So you go, "Oh, I liked Obi-Wan's version a lot better." Which in the case of our show is, "The numbers are bad luck, they keep popping up in Hurley's life, they appear on the island." ... But if you're watching the show for a detailed explanation of what the numbers mean—and I'm not saying you won't see more of them—then you will be disappointed by the end of season six.,,,,,"
Damon Lindelof - "Here's the story with numbers. The Hanso Foundation that started the Dharma Initiative hired this guy Valenzetti to basically work on this equation to determine what was the probability of the world ending in the wake of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Valenzetti basically deduced that it was 100 percent within the next 27 years, so the Hanso Foundation started the Dharma Initiative in an effort to try to change the variables in the equation so that mankind wouldn't wipe it itself out." -
Bring back , Mac!
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Feb 16, 2010 9:22:11 PM CST
Interesting that Lindelof essentially says numbers mean nothing.
by danielkurland
Because I'm pretty sure we were just given their meaning tonight.
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hired to convince him the curse was lifted was the woman at the temp agency?
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42 - Kwan
What show were you watching? -
They didn't really explain the numbers. I mean we know they were assigned to candidates picked by Jacob but we don't know why each got which number etc, or why they ended up winning Hurley the lottery, so I'd say the mystical aspect is still in place.
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interesting.
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We know, collectively, that the Losties have these numbers because they were the final candidates to become the protector of the island. And I'd then say, any mentioning of these numbers before the island is foreshadowing of the whole incident.
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And not Sun, that would mean all of the candidates are male. I think since Jacob was a male, I'm going to go on an assumption its more evidence that it is Jin and not Sun, because only a man can be the protector of the Island. Maybe LOST really is about penis' after all? (read first few posts of TB)
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we will learn the Kwon from the wall is Jin. there will be a karate tournament at the temple between the pill pushing fu man chu vs Jin, fake john lennon tells his boy to "sweep the leg" but gets crane kicked in the face by Jin, and Jin becomes the protector of the island
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maybe the numbers are just the first couploe of season's MacGuffin, and they just mean that they are the numbers identifying the cast on Jacob's list.
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Walt is special, gifted, but not one-of-a-kind. He is just very good at whatever he was good at. Obviously if he was the crux of the Others' operation, they would never have let him go. He was just very valuable, but not absolutely necessary. Once you know more about what's going on, you will be able to infer why the Others wanted Walt. This will not require the actor to explain.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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But why didn't Kate have a number if she was also touched by Jacob in the past
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that's the only letdown.
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I believe that MiB is trapped both in John's form as well as on the Island now. He can leave but only if he is taken away by someone making the CHOICE to leave. A lot of themes lately have been based on the characters making a conscious choice. He gave Sawyer 3 options, Ben was given a choice to kill Jacob, etc. So I don't think he can just leave without being taken away by someone or possibly a certain amount of people.
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But, maybe the reason Jacob touched both Sun and Jin at the same time is because it's their child that is the candidate. It'd be a pretty good set up, if they kill Sun or Jin making us think the other is safe. But, then killing the other and revealing it's Ji Yon.
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Yes the Numbers are assigned to represent the characters, mystery solved in the broad sense. Now long ago Damen and Lindelof said the Numbers didn't have an explanation. What they meant is why those particular numbers are used. Like, why is Jack 23 and not 58? There is no explanation for that nor does there need to be one. The meaning of the numbers is important and not the particular choices for numbers used.
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Interesting, his appearance tonight indicated that MIB is prone to these visions too, therefore Kate's horse and other visions from the past were not necessarily MIB.
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He threw the light stone away leaving only darkness. I think we now know the the others were the good guys all along.
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yes, Flocke needed Ben to kill Jacob,
Dogen needed Jack to give the green pill to Sayid,
Flocke needs Sawyer to sail away from the island. -
Numbers were a list for Jacob. Maybe representing the liklihood of the "canidate" accepting the position. Next in line is Reyes, he is the now chosen one.
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Oh, yeah cuz everything black is bad. Fucking racist. Just messing with you.
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Just look who has ruined this country. White=Bad. The end.
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Just look who has ruined this country. White=Bad. The end.
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Only a man can protect the island... Old School. (No way that 42 was Sun either...)
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im not 100% convinced, its too obvious. maybe the inside joke is that Jacob aka the white rock is bad and MIB aka the black rock is good
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right before Jack got clocked in the halls of the temple wall,when Kate and Hurley started disappearing,the silhouettes of the Others running in the shadows,did anyone else hear "THE WHISPERS"?
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Ok, flock tells sawyer to leave with him, I am taking that to mean he needs Jacobs candidate to go with him, otherwise he remains on the island and if someone accepts Jacobs job the cycle of black vs white continues. Comments?
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Did they ever explain why the Dharma VAN traveled forward in time with them when the bomb went off?
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Feb 16, 2010 9:42:39 PM CST
What? None of have seen Chuck Norris' "Godd Guys Wear Black?"
by planetran_fan
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Rewatch the convo between Locke and Widmore last season. "There's a war coming" - Widmore wanted Locke back on the island for his side. It's obvious where he is getting direction from.
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that's when I heard the whispering return.
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Feb 16, 2010 9:44:23 PM CST
They even have an explanation for why they carried the coffin
by dapper swindler
Something arrogant haters and doubters complained as unrealistic. Gotta watch the whole thing before you judge fellas.
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I'm throwing it out there that the ending of the show is about ending the timeline we have been watching for 5 years. I think the goal is going to be to make the alternate timeline the only one by the characters in the finale. Most everyone so far seems a little better off than the regular island timeline.
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So Jersey Shore is coming to LOST?
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Feb 16, 2010 9:46:03 PM CST
First spotting of boy, he was red handed and invisible to Richar
by tomonicker
Second spotting of Junior Jacob/Aaron, he is clean handed and visble to Sawyer. (F)Locke: " I don't need no stinking RULES! "
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Makes sense. Especially since Flocke is just a form, so he needs a candidate himself to have a body off-island.
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they didn't explain it, it may be that we have to infer there's a functional Dharma van nearby in any given year, like when Hugo first drove the "Ben's-dead=daddy" van in 2004.
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assuming that fake locke was telling sawyer the truth (for whatever purpose) he said, there is nothing special about the island, its just an island. therefore all the mystical shit,donkey wheel,move the island magic is due to "something" or "someone" that is on the island (doesn't matter what island that it is on)
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They had a Dharma van in the present too. Hurley got it to work, he ran over some others with it, it was a pretty good time. I just assumed it was that van. Otherwise, it went with them because one of them was touching it, and it traveled with them, like the rope.
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I think he was lying. That's gonna be an understatement at the very least.
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Sawyer/Ford is vulnerable...hurt, angry. Fake Locke is preying on that... SO Obvious.
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Sayid was still lying next to it and it had Hurley's guitar case in it.
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It had a good feel - not to much clunky exposition, and the direction has that tense feeling early seasons had. The last season and this season's first 3 felt like the characters were just standing and talking. Even the scene where Jack was trying to resuscitate Sayid felt like it was made for a reality show. Much more drama in this ep. I'm very glad Hurley owning the box company payed off finally.
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But in the blurriest sense possible. Like how Lost reveals all its answers previously, it gradually gives you the info making it less and less blurry. We're looking at the right painting now, but it is blurred. ...well something like that.
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does that imply that Christian and Alex weren't him? Or maybe the smoke monster and the MIB aren't the same being after all, so Christian and Alex were Smokey but... not MIB.
OR SOMETHING. -
You fucking idiots played several worthless early primary election results for the "entire frakking hour" at the BOTTOM of the screen.... which DISENGAGES the HD broadcast for ALL. No HD....
Update once every half hour and wait till 9 or 10pm you useless fucks. -
in the real world with real jobs makes me think the island sank before they were born. Yet obviously sometime after dharmaville was built
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I also believe in your end series prediction
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A sprinkle of good moments... these last two episodes feel like they're 15 minutes short. It's like the opposite of when I was a kid and I finally started to sense the predictability of the hour drama, wherein the last 15 minutes, everything would have to be wrapped up in due haste. It's just a sense of the taffy being stretched a little too far. I think Katy Segal is cool but she's been showing some wear and tear on here and Sons of Anarchy... Maybe it's because whenever I think of her, I think of Leela, who's kind of timeless as animated characters tend to be and the contrast is more striking.
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Jack and MiB sitting on the beach, reenacting the opening scene from the Season 5 finale.
Jack is "The Candidate" -
Feb 16, 2010 9:57:53 PM CST
I don't think the island just 'sank' in the alt timeline
by dapper swindler
I think it never existed. "How is the island?" is the question Matthew Fox told us to ask. Yes, I know we saw it at the bottom of the ocean... it's confusing.
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1) according to fake locke, Jacob interceded in their lives when they were vulnerable, supposedly causing all of the bad things that happened to them to happen. gotta admit. they all lead shitty lives 2)Jacob manipulated Ben, and then right at the moment of confrontation, he was kind of a dick with the "what about you" line to Ben. 3)the sideways timeline could be their lives if Jacob never interfered, since according to fake locke, Jacob brought them there. Is it too hard to believe that maybe all isnt what it seems just because we were so sure jacob = good, and mib = bad. maybe we were manipulated too? im just saying, things may not be what we thought they were
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You think?? The fact that we saw it 1st thing this year tells me: 1) Bomb went off, sinking island and tossing the time shifters forward and out of "flux". 2) Created the Parallel time line.
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After 800 posts arguing with him about whether or not the writers have a clue where this is going, I would like to see a little egg on his face.
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what's his motivation if he's the good guy protecting the island?? Look at the 1st time we saw him. Hinted at bad off the bat
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Feb 16, 2010 10:04:10 PM CST
Just remember the very last bit of dialogue spoken in this episo
by scraptalicious
Fake Locke/Jacob's Nemesis: "So, are you ready to go home?"
Sawyer: "Hell, yes"
Just wanna throw more fuel on the fire of the "island being heaven/place of salvation" theory -
I think alternate timeline events reflect those of the island to some degree and often to the same result. AKA:
1. On the island, Kate helps Claire have a baby. Events from LAX lead Kate to help Claire have a baby.
2. Ethan works on Claire while pregnant on the island.
Ethan works on Claire while pregnant off the island.
I think at the end of the series, those parallels and more will show that perhaps, you can't change fate.
Or maybe I'm just talking out my ass. -
WHY is this episode cooler or more informative than last week's? What ANSWERS did we get that we didn't already have? We already KNEW that those people were significant to Jacob. We saw him touch all of them in LAST Season's Finale. We already ASSUMED the Numbers have some significance. Putting a number next to each of their names means... WHAT EXACTLY?You guys bitch when you don't get ANSWERS, when what you really want is FUEL for your own THEORIES. You're going to bounce theories about names and numbers off each other for the next week or more, but those theories are coming from YOU. We weren't given ANSWERS tonight. We were given INFORMATION. From a source we have no reason to TRUST.And next week, when more screen time is devoted to Kate and Jin finding out what Claire's been going through, you'll be pissing and moaning again about filler and not getting ANSWERS. When the fact that the Others KNEW that Claire is Jack's sister and that she's now "infected" opened up all kinds of fertile ground for speculation. Which you guys ignored entirely because you're gay for Sawyer and Smoked Out Locke.
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Lotta good stuff. Wish you were on here earlier, but I am out. Thanks for the Dave debate guys. It was fun.
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I think that he was only trapped after Jacob was killed. That seems to be some sort of catalyst. I really am curious to see about the significance of the ash from Jacob's body that Ilyana put in her bag. I'm sure it will be important in some way, shape, or form. This is why I need a DVR. Want to be able to watch this stuff all at once without the damn commercials.
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It was simply better written. Answer or not, even if last week they'd given everything away, it was simply a shoddily written episode.
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then there wouldnt have been all these changes on flight 815 such as hurley being lucky, shannon staying behind, ben being a teacher etc. And Jack, Hurley, Sayid and the rest wouldnt still be on the island. Something else is going on here
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You must be a bitter, cynical little man in the real world. Give it a rest.
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Pretty sure I saw his name on the ceiling of the cave. Written in pink lipstick.
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My original theory about Lost since Season 1 still seems to work today. Basically, Jacob has some capacity to control fate. He wishes (possibly by use of some metaphorical magic box) that something should happen and fate finds a way for it to happen. He wanted certain people to come to the island and fate, working in very subtle and invisible ways, made these people come to the island. Those seemingly innocuous connections between the characters? That’s the hand of fate working behind the scenes in ways that are apparent but incomprehensible. Luck (the lottery, Hurley’s curse), fate, destiny, free will (can the timeline be changed?) – it all adds up thematically.
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The reason this episode is so much better is that it doesn't treat the fans like fools. By that I mean, it doesn't matter if it tells us answers, character points, mythology, etc.... it matters if it tells a great story in a satisfactory manner. I wasn't wondering 'hmmm..strange that Claire would get into a cab with a gun wielding convict'' Instead I wasn't critiquing at all. This episode didn't give any TRUE answers, but it gave a lot of hints, and it did so in a way that last weeks episode failed at in every way.
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I think the ash will be poured in the pool making it clear again.
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Jack saw his Father.
Boone saw Shannon.
Shannon saw Walt.
Sayid saw Walt.
Hurley saw Dave.
Eko saw Anna ..and Yemi
Ben saw Mom
John saw Walt
Juliet saw Harper
Claire saw her Father
and now
..Sawyer saw 'Boy with Blood on his hands'. Der Blut-Handjunge.. Blond hair, blue eyes and all. Got creepy Die Feierstunde der Hitler-Jugend vibe off that. kids and the Blutfahne and all that now.
Anyway..did I miss anyone who saw Any-not? -
Feb 16, 2010 10:13:35 PM CST
I don't like to think of my Claire being infected with darkness.
by tomonicker
Oh, hell, what am I saying. 8P
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We already know everything that was "revealed" tonight even to the point that they were reminding us of scenes that have already happened (as if LOST fans needed the quick cut scene of Jacob touching the Losties in the past--how cheesy was that?). YES WE KNOW JACOB FUCKING TOUCHED THEM. We already watched the fucking episode when it happened. We know Smokie wants off the island (again previously revealed). The only redeeming quality was O'Quinn's performance. I'm still going to cry filler on this one.
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Yes, we knew these people were important in last season's finale, but I feel some of the impact on this numbers reveal was lost due to how we saw it. If the sequencing of the series was we saw Jacob assigning HUNDREDS of people numbers, knowing, what each number people had, and THEN we started hearing the 4,8,15 business, we'd say, "Oh! The people that have those numbers must be important." The impact is lost here because we got the numbers first, we knew they were important, we knew the cast was important, so when we're told that the numbers actually ARE the cast, this doesn't seem like that big of a reveal. But, if Lost was going for MANY seasons, and was presented chronologically, and we had YEARS of Jacob milling about on the island, once Jack and friends eventually showed up, it would all make sense.
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take a shit guy and exposition girl are really in control so gives a fuck?
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I only say that because your "Lost fans are funny" post shows that you don't consider yourself a fan of the show, yet you are posting in a Lost talkback.
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Remember, Ms. Klugh asked Michael if Walt was ever in a place he wasn't supposed to be. So that might be different than people seeing dead people.
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Agreed, better than last week's episode (in terms of the flash sideways story), but the island stuff was worse. The island stuff treated the fans like fools this time...did we really need the "reminder" scenes? Horrible.
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It always has given you the pieces, one-by-one, so gradually that by the time it plainly tells you what you are building you had already figured it out yourself a few pieces ago. It's always been this way. I point it out every talkback. I have done this for years and the show just continues to affirm whatever I say. I need more attention.
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As I said in the previous talkback, last week's episode being considered 'bad' by most viewers had nothing at all to do with the fact it was about Kate or did not provide us with tons of answers. It was simply an exceptionally poor episode. I have never minded a Kate episode, not once. I hate her, but I enjoy hating her.
Again: Kate somehow manages to disarm and knock out a trained law enforcement officer at one of the largest international airports in the world, a place crawling with law enforcement located in a city with one of the biggest law agencies in the world. She then gets to carjack a yellow cab where we are clearly shown not only security but, again, actual police.
Now, even if that was somehow possible, she would not have made it off of the property. No way. Not going to happen. But she does. She not only gets away but gets away pretty cleanly. Drops off the driver and Claire. She then cruises around Los Angeles where, of course, every single officer in the area would be looking for her cab, as would other cab drivers and regular motorists due to the news coverage it would get.
Still, she keeps the cab and finds Claire who, amazingly, is just sitting there not seeking any type of help, nor has, again, law enforcement gotten to her. No problem! To the hospital where, finally, police catch up to her only to search the room minus the corner she is in.
Things like THAT made it a bad episode. Yes, all of us admit we are watching a show with moving islands, time travel, smoke monsters, physics, and many other things that do not exist in reality - and, yet, it is this stuff with Kate in L.A. that dumb founds people. I can suspend my disbelief for htings that make sense within the confines of the world as it is setup, but the stuff with Kate did not even make sense in the world of Lost.
Anyway, last week's was my least favorite episode of the entire series. This episode? Outstanding, loved it. Again, it was not BECAUSE it was a Kate episode last week, it was because it was just a bad episode.
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So my criticism comes from a place of love. :)
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Great point--I hadn't thought of it that way.
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"He was after my time." COME ON, guys!
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I'm wondering now if the "alternate" reality will end in everyone somehow choosing to start over with the one we've been watching for five seasons. Something about Locke tonight suggested he would jump at an alternative to his life (just as he did originally) ... Will the others get to a similar place and allow the loop to "start over" as it were? It seems like something along these lines is possible. Very interesting that the smoke monster is being chastised by a barefoot kid. Could it be that it and Jacob are not the highest authorities on the island?
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Loved that entire bit, says he has been there for a very, very long time. Also, he was a man who loved and all that. Great stuff.
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Widmore being MIB's guy and Jacob making sure MIB is unable to use Widmore as his getaway by making Ben cast him out. MIB can't use one who's been cast out to go home.
Makes sense? -
Good, but not great... I'm not really sure if I like this season yet. The first couple eps seem to be a setup to something but I'm not really sure what... (Like last season before they went back to Dharmaville...)And this ep needed more DOGEN!!!
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I wouldn't call this week's episode "outstanding" but it was an improvement. I personally don't like the flash sideways stories, and I think the island story is being streettchheed out way to long...when they start showing me rehashed clips from previous eps (did we really need to see Smokie kicking Jacob in the fire again? Or each scene of him touching a Lostie? Horrible!) I know we have problems...
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What? nothin? Seriously? You gonna give me nothin for "The Bloody Finger Post":
"Let me ask you. In your opinion...Is this world more good or more bad? Which holds sway? If you had to put it all on a scale...would the scale tip dark or light, good or bad, positive or negative? Ok, take that opinion and feature, if at the end of life, said energy is released and pocketed, which pocket of energy would be more powerful? Who has scoreboard? " - 3 June, 2009 02:21:14 node 41067
Not even a, "You Bastard!"??
Welp, Nothin?
"Inside Joke" *snicker* -
On the reason why Last week's episode was bad. You seem to have a lot of faith in the police. I assume you have not been the victim of the crime or you would realize the real police are not as efficient as they are in movies and tv. Everything Kate did made sense to me.
Anyway, the episode was bad because the story barely moved. A lot of characters just talked a lot about nothing and did almost nothing. Sluggish, unsatisfying progression. It's not rocket science. -
Best few minutes of the evening for me...
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I still think there's a big significance to Sun's first ever flashback where we see her as a little girl and she blames the maid for breaking the glass ballerina (knowing full well the maid would be fired). Everyone else's backstory seems to derive from being influenced in a negative way from others (and usually an older male figure in their lives) but Sun's story begins with a selfish choice that she makes to get out of a little bit of trouble. It's a life-altering choice that affects the maid, but for anyone else, it probably only would have resulted in being sent to your room without supper.
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It has never done this before during the show, has it? Although my reaction is not as disdainful as Gunter's.
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Vincent saw them all.
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Random thought...
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I love it!
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Feb 16, 2010 10:34:25 PM CST
People's disinterest in ALT stories has been mentioned...
by danielkurland
That they don't seem to work because the character's development is reset to where they were at season one, where we've already seen them all at, and mature past. Other than that, a brief "thrill" that oooooh Locke is now GOOD with his dad, or ooooh Hurley DOESN'T have bad luck, isn't enough for viewers. I'm coming across as critical, but I've highly enjoyed this season so far (although I suppose it's moreso due to the aspect of seeing six seasons worth of stories start to coalesce), I'm just hoping the ALT timeline aren't just throwaway stories, because that's what they feel like at this point, and that they're just subtracting time from the "main" story. IF they do all mean something, then I'll be super pleased.
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Point Taken. I should have said SOME Lost Fans since I am very much a Fan of the Show. And the important word was FUNNY. I'm not hating on anyone. I just find it amusing that the same people who wouldn't give a pass to Kate and Claire's Thelma and Louise hijinks last week WILL give a pass to Hurley and Rose helping Locke become a substitute teacher so he and Ben Linus can bond over Earl Grey tea? Because we got some names and numbers on a cave wall? Okay...
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paralyzed in the sideways flash...but NOT because Daddy pushed him out the window?
Helen says dad was invited to the wedding. Not someone you would expect to be invited to nuptials, eh? Wonder how Locke lost his legs in this iteration of the story. -
This more than likely is NOT the case, but it made me think back to season one of The Wire where they have their one and only flashback scene. In the commentary, the creators say how much they hated this, but the NETWORK insisted. This could have been the case here, and not Lindelof/Cuse, however, it seems a little strange when the following week's episode plays RIGHT BEFORE.
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Cymb & Daniel-I agree with you both, that the flash sideways story was weak again, and will continue to be, because we aren't invested in those characters...I'm hoping the stories do mean something to the greater story, because it is coming across like bad fan fiction at this point...
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I don't know if I love 'em or hate 'em, but they sure make watching this a lot more efficient. They should do them on the new episodes too but with a little parodic spin, like "these numbers probably mean absolutely nothing" / "this guy is evil" / "we shamelessly ripped off this plot point from season 1" (e.g. the Japanese guy who doesn't want anyone to know he can speak English, etc.) ...
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Yeah, we can give them the benefit of the doubt, that it was the network's dabbling instead of any creative choice by the creators/writers...it just seemed low brow and a bit jarring since they never do it...
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They were about the character you were currently invested in. The flash sideways are about different characters, so it's hard to care. And this week's was especially odd since Fake Locke isn't even Locke. Or is he? I still enjoyed the scenes but I ultimately wished to return to the island action whenever they were on.
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appearing in visions as a "creepy spirit" to a "crazy jungle woman"... will Jack's dad too? This to me seems more of a forced writers move since Rousseau wouldn't appear this year.
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Great way to put it, Daniel...I'm hoping they do become something more, since they are detracting from "main" story...
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And we got "Search and Destroy" as a soundtrack for an Evil Dead style SmokeyCam. Now I'm picturing Sawyer and Juliet getting it on to "Shake Appeal" back in their Dharma Days. Sigh...
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So, a lot of our LOST peeps are candidates for Island guardian. Honestly, the cave reveal was the let down of the episode. Um, so we got Jacob lives in the Foot statue, he may or may not live in the Cabin, and now we have revealed the cliffside cave/gameroom/office of Jacob? Or was this really MIB's lair, home?
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EXACTLY what I was going to say. Again, I am not hating, but the flashbacks and flashforwards taught us something about these characters, no matter how small. All we're learning here is how these characters acted years ago, and that they sure do seem to bump into each other a lot. I mean, I'm sure when we get Jack's story, we'll see Locke calling him or something, but other than the ALT story having Locke and Jack being friends, rather than enemies on the island, does it mean anything?
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...what's his excuse for missing the corporate conference? He could've attended it and THEN flown back to the states. Sheesh. And was it really necessary to lie so blatantly? I mean, go to the damn conference and THEN sign up for a walkabout. I mean, the walkabout company probably schedules these things on a regular basis. And did it ever occur to Locke that an authentic Aboriginal walkabout probably doesn't involving signing up with a tour group and getting on a bus? Couldn't he have just, like, done it on his own? Never mind, I forgot that we're not supposed to ask common-sense questions about plot points, just invent wild theories about reincarnation and parallel universes ...
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on dead locke's head? A medusa spider paralyzed nikki and paulo and everyone thought they were dead, but of course they were alive. Could that be a hint that the real John Locke is not actually dead or might come back to life?
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Feb 16, 2010 10:48:04 PM CST
I think it's just another way to give characterization
by dapper swindler
Just like the flashbacks. I am skeptical they will mean much. But at least (spoilers) they will end soon.
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Totally valid point. With all of the research Locke had done, and considering how determined he was, you'd think he would have just taken his knives and gone on his own, to just further prove that he can't be told what he can't do.
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Haters will be haters, but if you really truely love LOST, tonight was some serious main-event caliber action.
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I so want this to be awesome. But something doesn't feel right. I don't even care about the lack of answers. The show just doesn't feel compelling anymore.
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I took it as MiB's lair... and he was crossing off risks as he "dispatched" them. And he intended to kill Sawyer until that warning from the kid. He probably decided to wait. Maybe Jacob was there years ago and helped write the names on the ceiling... and he tossed the "jacob rock" off the scale as he feels he has ridden himself of Jacob and the scales are in his favor now....
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It would kind of disagree with me, but I could see Jack as the heir to Jacob and Sawyer as the heir to the smoke monster or whatever. It seems like he's an understudy or gearing up to be. I don't know about the smoke monster and Sawyer, but ,aybe even Jack IS Jacob already or some shit. They do take other forms, used to be actual people (as per Flocke tonight at least) ... I'm stuck on this loop idea, maybe.
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I don't think they're that bad but I do agree they better be more than a red herring or tossaway... If they don't have any bearing or consequence for the "Island" Losties, what indeed is the point of them?
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Could be also that the kid in the woods is a re-growing Jacob a la Spock in Star Trek III.
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A) Ben's eulogy. Amazing how something could be sweet, horrible, and absurd at the same time. I like how everyone's reaction to the murder was "Aw geez. Oh well, whatever."
B) Richard running out of the jungle scared shitless, ranting to Sawyer, then getting his ass out of there. I thought his eyes were about to burst out of his head.
C) Fake Locke's "inside joke." Such a perfect line. They could have had some boring explanatory line that told us what we already knew. But instead those two words said so much already. -
Weak spoiler warning, man
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Jack and Sawyer, forever on the island, as the new Jacob and MiB. Maybe they are the two skeletons? Holding their rocks, representing their sides, until their final moments.
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What about all of the clarification on being a candidate, a bit more information on the "game", and the information on becoming protector of the island, of jacobs role, and more about smokeys needs and desires. The stuff on the wall is just excellent, excellent setup. But it also answers who is really important going forward. I don't understand anyone who says we didn't learn anything we didn't already know. That is a bold-faced lie, I say!
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any info we got on the MiB was great,especially him explaining to sawyer that he was once very human, and the fact that there is something/someone else that frightens and has authority over the MiB.
But the biggest revelation is that we now know why some of these people were brought to the island, to take over jacob's position. HUGE huge mythology stuff.
also to the people complaining about the "reminder scenes", get over it. it actually confirmed whether or not jacob physically touching each of them during last season's finale had signifigance. it did, and according to MiB this "re-wrote" their destiny.
also i love the idea of the little boy being aaron. would finally give him a purpose. -
Ethan and Ben were still born on the Island. Ethan got his new last name "Rom" when he was integrated into the others after the purge. They were alive b/c before the "incident" all women, children, and non-essential personnel were evacuated from the Island before the drilling continued. So after it sunk, Ben and Ethan were raised as normal people apparently off Island. The bomb went off... O6 were transported (along with the van that they were touching and anything else they were in contact with)back to the "present day" Island. Also in the blast, the Island sunk creating an alternate timeline and killing all the other inhabitants on the Island (possibly Jacob and MiB included).
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We learned a very important piece of information tonight. Just as last week we learned an important piece of information about 'The Infection' on The Island (or should I say about 'Claiming').
We have learned what this game is all about. It's all about finding The Island's Protector. The Next Jacob. And those who have been chosen are connected to The Numbers, in fact are each ASSIGNED one of The Numbers (most likely in reference to the order they would be 'activated'--Locke was the 'spiritual leader', now he dead! Hurley is next--as someone pointed out above).
I would also not be surprised if we see other names crossed out on that ceiling, like '4 Eko', '15 Dawson', '8 Pace'. We've known these people were brought here for a reason. And now we know that reason.
There are two viewpoints (as there are in any story with any sort of conflict). If you believe Jacob's side, he's brought those he deems worthy (ie, Enlightened) to take his place or become his Protector of The Island. If you believe the MiB's side, Jacob is a frankly childish or insane person who gets his kicks trapping people into what this is. Because either way, this is all one giant game.
It's backgammon. The 'oldest game in the world', as Locke told Walt (and for those who caught, they made specific reference to this at the end of the Enchanced episode tonight). One side light, one side dark. "Inside joke," UnLocke says, and don't worry; we'll get the other side of that joke, probably in the upcoming Richard episode. But it is still...one side light. One side dark. And the rolling of Jacob's destiny dice draws the next group ever closer to the game of backgammon he must play, to protect this Island he loves so much.
We learned the MiB was once a man (the man who spoke to Jacob on the beach, perhaps?). We learned those up for 'Candidacy' can see the visions on The Island (Jack, Hurley, now Sawyer), when Others (Richard) can't. We learned who the main main MAIN players are in this game, who the actual chess pieces are. Well, all except one...'cause dollars for doughnuts back in the recesses of that cave there's a not-crossed-off '16 Lapidus'. Sorry, Sayid!
We also saw more glimpses of what's still to come. Ilana taking the ash of Jacob from the fire pit, perhaps furthering the CANTON RAINIER chants on this forum. The red-handed child who could easily be Aaron or Jacob...or both? And on the other side of the pond, LOCKE is MARRYING HELEN?!?!? adoublesayWHAAAAAAAAAT?!?
Soooo...yeah. LOTS of things learned in this episode. 'The Infection'? Check. 'Candidacy', 'The Numbers' and 'Jacob's List'? Check.
But I do have to say, I agree with something DapperSwindler said a while ago...these answers are coming in a blurry, focusing way. I think when the season is over, we'll be able to go back through, not only the entire show, but this season in particular, and realize all the puzzle pieces are there to assemble the entire story/solution/ANSWER to the many questions and mythologies surrounding the show. In fact, I think we already know a hell of a lot...we're just not sure how to put it into focus yet. -
None of those. By far the funniest part was Frank's "Weirdest damn funeral I ever been to." I had to pause the show to let my laugh go. And I'm not a laugh out loud type of person. Bens euglogy/confession was just so personal, so heartfelt, and the entire episode of to that point was just heartpounding, and then that line. I cracked. Frank Lupidus is just fucking hilarious. Right up there with "We're not goin' to Guam...are we?"
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I think that's the big thing. That and the fact he saw the kid and Sawyer saw him too. It would be quite a surprise of there was a twist and UnLocke was a face and Jacob was really a heel. I don't see that happening. If Jacob needs a replacement then why doesn't UnLocke?
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It's true, they aren't helping us understand the characters, and they really aren't very compelling stories...I remember when the flashback episodes were hitting their peak, and I would enjoy watching the flashback stories more than the island story...they were well written and engaging, and told us more about the characters. Now I just sit through them patiently until we get back to the island. I want to like them, but they just aren't that engaging on a narrative level...at least give us good stories...
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Didn't think it was much of a spoiler.
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Because I was laughing at Ben's.
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That ALL the Losties had one of The Numbers. I interpreted it as none of the numbers repeating, and the final Losties that are alive (and on the wall) are the culmination of all of this. So, if Pace or Eko WERE on the wall, they would have had some irrelevant number, and that's why they are dead now, because obviously they weren't going to be protector of the island.
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He determined that Eko was all kinds of pure and holy, and would never side against Jacob if the choice presented iteslf. Interseting.
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Your interpretation is about the same is mine. But I think you missed that all the names that were crossed off had other numbers than The Numbers. 4,8,15,16,etc were the last numbers/names left. (Except now 4 is crossed out)
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Assuming that 1) It's all about the choices individuals make, and MiB and Jacob can only influence them and 2) that MiB is some kind of Demon. He hates humans, wants to kill them. Jacob has the job of keeping locked away, on a deserted island, so he won't hurt anyone. Jacob is tired of this situation but cannot leave unless being replaced by a good candidate. So he goes outside the island, influences people into making choices bringing them to the island. Once on the Island he watches them go through some "tests" to see if they are worthy or capable enough for that job (or if they make the right choices?), crossing the names that are gone until there is one left. Now when MiB says that "there is nothing to protect" about the island, he lies. The island is there to hold him prisoner and should NOT be found, because that would give him so many opportunities to escape. So Ben wasn't lying when he said that if Widmore found the island, they were all going to die. It would litterally be the end of the world if MiB left the island, hence why the gang protecting Jacob call themselves "the good guys".
Assuming that MiB would only be allowed to leave if Jacob set him free : Since the rule states that you cannot kill the candidates - that's what the boy said - on the island, then one of them had to die outside AND COME BACK, therefore provinding the loophole for MiB. The loophole is : MiB arranges to have Jacob killed (again influencing the choice made), has someone replacing Jacob (like Sawyer) and that new Jacob willingly sets MiB free.
But then is Ben on MiB side? He did kill Locke, he did insist that Locke had to be on that plane, he did unleash Smoke Monster when his daughter got killed, he did round up the people "on Jacob's list"...
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Re-watched the cave scene. I have a HDTV and slo mo dvr.
"Litteton" was written on the wall and crossed out.
The number 313 or something was before her name. -
Fair enough. I was so jittery-excited I couldn't make out any of the others on the wall; just my guess there would be the same numbers repeated. I need to go back and watch that frame by frame NOW! Damn my lack of frame-by-frame!
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Feb 16, 2010 11:08:43 PM CST
Funny how Ben will fess up to a killin' Locke but not Jacob.
by tomonicker
Yeah, I know it wouldn't be to smooth to admit that in front of Jacob followers. Something about this candidacy business stinks... let's get this straight: MIB's looking for a loophole and Jacob is looking for a replacement. Hmmm.
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Not sure if anyone else caught this. Definitely NOT a filler.
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Biological? or Adopted? Remember Granny asked who she needed to see about adoption? Ya think John maybe didn't wind up in revolving Foster Care? Maybe in a stable, loving family?
And thus this is the 'Nurture' iteration. And explains his more 'light' disposition. Heck, Maybe on this side... this iteration, 'Jeremy Bentham' actually has a teenage son as the Obit in Season 3 said. Maybe?
And C'MON! man. Sawyer and a jelly jar full of whiskey. Still no love? Ola! Whiskey!?!
"Inside Joke" -
You hit on something important. MiB doesn't need Jacob dead to leave the island, he needs Jacob to allow him to leave. And since Jacob wouldn't do it, he wants to manipulate Sawyer, the new Jacob, to do it for him.
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That the protector of the island is the only one who can let MiB go, and MiB is just hoping that it will end up being Sawyer. Or maybe all of the candidates can let him go...
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So, whats that deal? Dead like Sayid, but still walking? Possessed by another? Interestingly enough, Rousseau lost her kid, became jungle fever er, Rambo, then Claire, lost her kid, (sorta) and is now Jane of the jungle. (with guns and traps.) Rousseau incarnate, Sayid is Jacob incarnate?
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i would be very satisfied if everything you said is true
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Widmore and Ben's roles in this grand scheme confuse me now...
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I think that's obvious. He will be the new "Shepherd". I don't think there's any way around *not* showing that hand too early without not setting up the idea of a new Island protector. But I'm pretty sure that's the way its gonna go. (haven't read the TB yet; I'm sure its already bee suggested).
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That was fantastic.
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There are a lot of reasons they used Numbers instead of the actual Names they represent other than to keep it a mystery. One interesting reason is that who knew what actors would be around by season six.
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I agree too, with my only hesitance being that it would be TOO obvious to be how things turn out.
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But I think that's the point. And we've all thought if before, way back in Season 3. Its obvious, but its necessary, narratively speaking, I believe.
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Is the idea that MiB inevitably had Locke killed because he knew Locke would be the protector, and side with Jacob? In which case, the theory is opened that there is not ONE protector that will eventually be revealed, but rather, that this protector can be any of these candidates, and if the one it was meant to be dies, any of the rest are capable of filling the position.
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The numbers are 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42. They are not 23 (Jack's number). That means all six of those will be Jacob, or will be integral to some important thing that is going to happen having to do with Jacob.
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I'm looking at those six numbers as merely the end to an insanely long elimination process. Not all six of these are needed to become Jacob, but rather the finalists for the position.
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And what a moment! We go from one, very happy scene where Locke has a very happy Other-life... and immediately after we're thrust into the depressing reality where Locke's dead body is "starting to go ripe" according to Lapidus. Man, how sad Locke's fate has been.
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No I think you're wrong. I think the numbers are numbers/names of pple Jacob knew WAY ahead of time and he has been crossing off hundreds of names for hundreds of years. Jack being 23 means nothing as far as sequence goes.
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MiB killed Locke bc he knew Locke believed in the Island and everything "IT" told him, and he knew he could use Locke to manipulate Ben into killing Jacob. Bc MiB couldn't kill Jacob, but a mortal man, one of Jacob's followers, could.
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So there are many names on the wall with many numbers, like 313 for Claire. So if all these names are crossed out except for one, then why are 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 significant as a group? If 23 is the winner, then the rest, 4, 8 15, 16, 42, are just like 313. And obviously the six numbers together are significant in some way.
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he would have turned into smoke monster, the protectors shot him, and he became the monster. Richard specifically said to the group outside the foot, do not shoot him
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I see what you're saying, but the way I see it adding up is this: Jacob assigns everyone a number. Then "forces"or whatever start echoing this 4,8,15,16 business, so he knows that ONE of these people is important, just not which one. I think it's suspension of disbelief to build, appropriately enough...suspense. If we only had one number, we'd know who the candidate is.
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I don't understand you. I know that the numbers/names are people Jacob has been crossing off. The remaining names/numbers are the Numbers. ????
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Re-watched the cave scene. I have a HDTV and slo mo dvr.
"Litteton" was written on the wall and crossed out.
The number 313 or something was before her name. -
The numbers. The Candidates. Are confidence picks. 01 to an indeterminate number.
I realize confidence picks and sports stuff slides right over the head of sertain sci-fi fellas... (and let us speak plainly, it is fellas, this is an Armandino Batali Salumi board, 1 lass in a hundred here) That's not big time. It is what it is..but what the hey.
The numbers are the Coaches Poll of candidates. Jacob is the Island's Danny Sheridan.
*PS. Jacob, like most, hates Colin Cowherd. -
So you're saying the six are sort of the special set of finalists that Jacob is mulling over?
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Necessarily means that person is dead. It just means they are no longer a candidate for whatever reason, death being a possible reason.
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both dead.
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ANY of those six people could be the candidate, but ONLY those six people have the necessary traits to do it. Which is why Locke was one of the numbers to begin with, but is now crossed off.
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Hades was Zeus' older brother and the one who should have had control of the throne. But it came down to a drawing of straws, who got to rule the sky and who got to rule the Underworld. Hades lost and was relegated to the world of the dead. Just like Smokie? Here's how I see it: Jacob got to leave the Island ALL the time to draw in pple to be candidates to replace him. But it was up to Smokie to actually JUDGE these pple, to see if they were right or wrong for the part. And he was doing it to find Jacob's replacement, not his own. Who was to take over his job? Why did he have to work hard, judging and killing and crossing off names, to make Jacob's job easier? So now that Jacob is dead, what does he care who takes over? He gets to leave now, right? But I think the bigger question is this: Who did THEY take over their jobs from? Are they the first? MiB liked to read books, so they cant be that old, can they?
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1 is the winner, 5 others are just candidates, and the hundreds of others are just considerations. Maybe.
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I agree: Being crossed off does not mean you are dead, but rather, something has happened to indicate that you will not be the protector. Obviously, being dead falls into that category but is not exclusive of it. I'm not sure exactly where I fall on the numbers and if there is only one set person to be protector, and he is one of these six, or if any of these six can be protector, but I think I'm leaning more towards the first theory. Dapper, I'm suggesting that yes, these six were the finalists Jacob determined to be his successor. However, I'm not so much saying he was trying to decide which of them would be the new protector, but adversely, he genuinely didn't know who would be his successor, but that it was just one of these six.
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And figure this out.
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Feb 16, 2010 11:45:24 PM CST
I don't think screenshots are going to prove anything...
by danielkurland
other than neat little tidbits like, oh, look at that, Desmond's name is on the wall too!
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Maybe we misunderstood each other. I took your opinion to be "Jack can't be Jacob bc he's number 23, not number 1". I was saying, there is no "number 1= Jacob". Jacob just numbered hundreds of pple as names came to him and any of them could be his replacement. Number 23 is as good as number 1, which is as good as number 500. Did that make sense? I have been drinking tonight, mind you.
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He's a street-walking cheetah with a heart full of napalm. DUNN NUN NUN NUUUN NUN NUUN NUAAAH!
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Obviously 23 is the best number to be. Jack is gonna King James dunk over everyone and be the new Jacob.
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makes me wish Carnivale was still on, as you could tell the mythology behind their avatar system was JUST as deep as this stuff :(
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And Helen is Gemma's real name..and this is her alt-light-life too. And the way John broke his spine was ridin the open road.
All of a sudden, while John is in the tub and Gemm..er, Helen attends..we here..
Brrrnn..Brrrnnn.Brrrrrrnnn.
Jax, Obie, Clay..the whole club, Sons of Anarchy, come ridin down the street. To the House. Jax hops off his XLCR, strides to the door, kicks it in.. YELLS ..Gemma! Gemma! John! and arriving at the bathroom declares:
"We have to go back! We have to go back"
Then, all of the Sons of Anarchy ride off into the Sunset, John 'Locke' Teller on Piney's trike, and flash to the Island and proceed to kill everyone there.
Now. That is a crossover worth watchin.
Did I mention that St. John and St, James were brothers? The Boanerges.
The Sons of Thunder. -
Feb 16, 2010 11:49:30 PM CST
LOST, please don't turn this into the BSG numbers game...
by guntermonkey
We don't care who the fucking "final 5" are, or any such nonsense...
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No, I was saying Jack can't or won't be Jacob because he is just one number (23) while THE Numbers are six.
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Just mean "Not a candidate anymore". Smokie infected Claire and thus made her "not a candidate".
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I mean really, do we really want this season to be about who is what number? Does it matter?
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The Numbers, in which there are six, are simply the candidates left at the time of Jacob's death. Although Locke died a few days earlier than Jacob.
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Well played, sir. Well played. Thought that, truly. But as to my age, thought of the true King.
MJ. No. The black one...who played basketball. -
There are six numbers left in the Numbers Hurley used so the remaining number in the end must be the Sixth one (#6 or # 108), a name we haven't seen yet? Is that your idea?
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I think that the idea of being "infected" makes sense maybe only for people that have died and come back to life (Christian Shepherd/Sayid). The Others THOUGHT Claire was infected, which I would believe if all we had to go on was Claire chillin' in the cabin with Christian with that spooky light on her. BUT, Claire showing up in the jungle, disshevelled and gettin' her Rousseau on makes me think that she is not really infected. The Others may not fully understand what it means to be claimed, and Claire maybe has resisted MiB/Smokie's power and is on her own.
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That it's not the SIXTH number, it's that all SIX of these numbers are essential. He's saying that not one of these numbers is significant (which is what I'm proposing) but rather, that all six of these numbers were chosen because all six of these people somehow must work together to "make up" Jacob.
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...but they finally cranked out a really good episode. Amazing how good this show can be when they don't ram 30 fucking minutes of Kate down our throat.
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"Worst damn funeral I've ever been to." Can you imagine this guy's position? He's brought to a crazy, spooky Island. Never meets a John Locke. Never meets a Ben Linus. Leaves said Island. Comes back 3 years later. Has an injured Ben Linus on the plane. Sees John Locke walking around. Ends up near a giant statue's foot. Sees John Locke's body. Sees John Locke walking next to his own dead body. Digs a hole for John Locke's body, and then hears his fellow gravedigger, Ben Linus, confess to murdering the man he's seen walking around? The poor guy. I'd be begging for some Island liquor at this point.
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I think 1 number matters in the end, not 6.
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You say this: "42 mins
of walking through forests to see a wall with names. lets face it, theres really not much of a story to tell. thats why its being dragged the fuck out" Just what do you think the point of a story is exactly? To tell you the end IMMEDIATELY? Is only one aspect of the story or the twist important? If it is, than you're in love with plot and nothing else- not character, not thematic subtext, not mood or tone. Gimme a break with a bitchy complaint such as that. -
Holy shit it makes sense why we didn't see her name on the walls yet.
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Feb 17, 2010 12:12:19 AM CST
(though I think it makes more sense for Jack to be Nu-Jacob)
by d.vader
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Ji Yeon. Thats why Jacob needed to wish them well on their marriage
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Shit, as I typed it I was thinking of the names on the wall meaning a woman could not be one. I was gonna say what about Eloise, but ah well. The list is for Jacob incarnate.
vader, everytime I point out his failures, he cries and takes shots. He does it to himself.
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Thank god for this ep.
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I don't see the significance of this UNLESS Ji Yeon IS the island protector, otherwise, it is just another eliminated candidate.
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I couldn't place her. Thank you for reminding us all that the crazy lady asking about Locke's spirit animal (penguin, by the way) was the fake psychic that Cheech took Hurley to see in Season 3. Nicely done.
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I've stayed out of your feud with LostBoy in the past, mainly bc I don't have as much time this year as I have in the past to read every post and I don't remember who is who (I am sorry for that; I do remember the conflict in past seasons, just not the sides), but his post was monumentally stupid. Just plain stupid.
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Think about it: What does Sawyer have? (Whiskey?)
MIB took Sawyer to the cave, saved his life on the ladder, and gave him answers. He didnt kill him like Richard said he would. (not yet at least)
So, Sawyer is down as a recruit? Look as how well MIB manipulated Ben of ALL people. -
Then so is Aaron. The two will be friends and will arrive on the Island to find their parents who disappeared YEARS before. This will all happen on LOST: The Next Generation.
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Dun dun DUUUUUUUN?!?
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"Earl Grey, hot."Another fine Star Trek reference.
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It started with him attacking an opinion and then taking it too far and not liking that he was called out on being knowledgeable, then posting spoilers and being rude.
NEVER being constructive to any tb.
I just wasnt gonna take his troll shit and fired back. You gotta take a stand (no pun intended) against bullshit artists. -
But later, much much later than now. Jacob made a mistake. Walt WILL be the Island leader and protector. But not now; he is too young. He will take on this role in LOST: The Next Generation.
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I heard 100,000 "filler complainers" who hoped we'd get through the whole hour without seeing Kate scream in anguish.
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A motherfucking idiot. This episode was spectacular, end of story.
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I think it'd be a neat development, but once it was revealed, I don't think ANYONE would expect/want Ji Yeon to be the island protector. I also don't mean to harp on Jin and Sun, but are either of them anyone's favorite character? I mean, have you ever spoken to someone about Lost, and they're continually steering the conversation to Sun/Jin. It won't be any of the Kwons in the end, because ultimately, it is not what the fans want, or really, what even makes sense.
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It actually caused us to miss an important line, whether or not Ben introduced himself as "Benjamin Linus", bc I was too busy yelling out "EARL GREY, HOT!" to a female friend who is also a big tea fan.
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something for the romance 'shippers.
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True that. Thanks for fighting the good fight for the rest of us who aren't (but mean to).
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We know that the Dharma Initiative, maybe independently of Jacob, identified 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 as important numbers, coefficients, whatever, in an equation. Maybe Jacob didn't know those numbers were important the way Dharma did, and the fact that this game they have been playing for centuries has whittled the candidates down to those having the significant numbers assigned to them is why they made it this far. Because it would always come down to those numbers in the end.
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...but you probably won;t believe me."Maybe I read too much into it, but I think UnLocke saying that was this weeks example of the writers speaking directly to the fans - especially the ones who insist on not believing whatever an episode comes right out and tells them.
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Ji Yeon = conceived on island, born off. Aaron = born on island, conceived off. The two balanace out the equation, return to the island at an earlier time by time travel, live out their lives together, and die in a cave. We call them Adam and Eve.
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The Old Spice guy is the smoke monster.
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23 is and always will be Michael motherfuckin Jordan, bitch! Queen James coulda never stepped to that shit. He woulda been tore up from the floor up!.
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I would LOVE this, but I don't see it happening (although that would make it all the more great). I say this because in my opinion, they've done a pretty intentional job of almost regressing island Sawyer back to season one Sawyer, because Jack's plan "didn't work." It seems like he's going out of his way to be difficult, and alone, and that's what I saw his line about Sayid "just being a torturer" last week being about. That's exactly something he'd have said in season one. So at this point Sawyer seems beaten down, sad, and pretty much hopeless and this most certainly is NOT an act. Although I'd love him to be tricking MIB, Sawyer is plenty malleable at the moment due to everything he's been through.
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Flocke will turn into a crow. And Bernard will be part of his flock. Only skinnier.
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Who did Jacob and Bocaj replace? And who made the "rules"?
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Yeah, I feel what I was saying and you are saying pretty much go hand and hand, and sort of chicken-or-the-egg like. Regardless as to whether which came "first" both are true.
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Open the season with "Hey, here's what - or who - the smoke monster is" and follow it up two weeks later with some major forward traction on explaining the numbers.BUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ORIGINAL STUFFED PANDA IN THE CAB!!!
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I wonder if Je Yeon and Aaron will factor in at all this season. I hope so. Or maybe they really will only show up in.... LOST: THE NEXT GENERATION. (seriously, give me a job)
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I think that maybe the most significant thing about this episode is that The Numbers are finally "explained." We aren't going to get clear, definitive answers for everything in LOST. The Numbers were a huge unanswered question, and this episode gave us the answer to their significance. Jacob is seeking his replacement, numbering his candidates, and the our castaways (the finalists) are 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42.
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He cant take anyother forms. He's stuck as Locke. So, he's not Claire. She's alive but infected? Zombie? Guess we'll find out next week as she electrocutes Jin.
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This is why LOST is great- They answer the question... but there's still an answer to be had!
And I've championed LOST's logic from the beginning. "How were they brought to the Island?" "Desmond didn;t push the button" "But couldn't fate have *caused* him to not push the button?" -
some quasi-dimensional lottery was being done over who would be the finalists for island protector, and some guy picks 4,8,15,16,23,42 and wins.
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Interesting theory on Ji Yeon, though first names were not given for an of the candidates, so it's anybody's guess. That being said Aaron will definitely be important (I hope) and I qould totally watch LOST: The Next Generation if it's made by Darlton.
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I really enjoy reading all the theories on this board after all the Lost episodes air, but I never had one to offer until now. It struck me as kind of odd watching the flash-sideways tonight that the lives of the Losties in the alternate timeline seem so drastically different. I mean, Hurly is lucky, Locke is with Helen (and both if them are alive). Then I remembered what slight-of-hand magicians those Lost writers are, so I started wondering, what if the flash-sideways are nothing of the sort? What if the flash-sideways are the eventual outcome of whatever the MIB and Jacob have been doing on the island? The "alternate timeline" is not what happend if the bomb went off. It's the result of all the temple, Smokey, Fake-Locke stuff happening on the island. Right now, everything happening on the island is building to some big conclusion. What if the "alternate timeline" is that conclusion? Whatever game Jacob and MIB are playing, the outcome is that the lives of all the characters are "reset" and we're watching that simultaneously with how the "reset" came to be. Kind of like how we were watching a Jack flahsback at the end of season 3 and it was really a flashforward. The "alternate timeline" is one big flashforward. Does that make sense?
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Jacob has the Others. What does Smokey have? Only the dead whom he has judged? Or the memory of other dead pple whom have relatives on the Island? So he makes the living work for him, the Infected, the Claimed. They are HIS "Others", and in the end they will battle against Jacob's followers.
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because that fits much better
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Think of stuff like Charlie and Boone being there. Also, thinking about Littleton being on the board, wouldn't this disqualify Aaron? Who's last name does Aaron have? If it were Kate's, we're in the same territory...
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Interesting idea, and quite possible. Although, Juliet said "It worked." How she knew that, who knows? But I think I believe her. Also, it addresses the "Whatever Happened, Happened" notion that you can't change YOUR past, but you can create an alternate path of reality.
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Dripping wet and whispering "Shhhh", moments after he had been abducted from the boat? Man, what a trippy moment that was. We had NO idea what we were in for in the future...
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If that's a lie, why take Sawyer down to the cave to tell him that?
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Feb 17, 2010 12:43:00 AM CST
@Dapper Swin ..Reverse it! The numbers count down not up. Spoili
by macfaux
Remember. It only ends once. Which indicates progression. The Rules?
Coaches can't kill the other teams players or recruits..recruits and players can't kill the other teams Coach. Only the Coaches players can kill the Coach. (Bobby Knight nods in understanding) Understand? The Candidate numbers are, as mentioned above, confidence picks. They countDOWN like the Swan Station clock. The Coach assigns his highest (confidence) number to his best (player) chance of success. The lowest (confidence) number to his least (player) chance of success.
So, when Jacob gets down to his last Best to Worst Candidates:
42 Kwon
23 Shephard
16 Jarrah
15 Ford
08 Reyes
04 Locke
Out of a game pool of potentially ..well, billions. He knows.. He's got troubles, Lord. He is runnin out of time. And. And just maybe. Maybe. ...Cheats? As in the fix is in.
Maybe he allows a Dharma to come to the Island.. for the purpose of ensuring that his guy, his man, is on the clock. 108 minutes. Reset. More time for the final shot.
Maybe he reaches out to the last remaining Candidates/Recruits and ..'enhances' their 'performance' or chances of success.
What you must remember. If the other player is at 00 and Jacob is at 01. He wins. Whatever that is. Good or Bad.
Ya think that is why the other player is also 'recruiting' candidates?
I think the shot clock is off.
I am hoping for overtime. -
What in the fuck are you talking about? If you know anykind of shit about this season, It's:
1.) Not a fuckin flash forward, but as Damon and Carlton (TPTB)have announced it's called a FLASH-SIDEWAYS.
2.) What the fuck are you8 talking about? -
the question is.. how much of what he said is true, and how much a lie?
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Not a flashforward in the strictest sense. Something big is going to happen on the island between Fake Locke, the Others, the Losties, etc. Something set in motion by Jacob probably thousands of years ago. When that happens, everything changes. The lives of the Losties are completely different. They are not cursed, they are blessed. They are not unlucky, they are lucky. They don't have daddy issues, they are well-adjusted. They don't want to give up their babies for adoption, they want to keep them. The flash-sideways are what happens to these characters after the final confrontation on the island between Jacob and the MIB. So it's not exactly a flashforward, but kind of like it.
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...when he says that he was once a man? If that is true (he was a man who somehow became trapped on the island), it seems to dispel a lot of other theories, like he is a god or Hades ir Lucifer, etc... What do you guys think?
P.S. GREAT episode. -
I think we can now conclusively say Harper was REAL. Ben knew the Freighter folk were coming. Ben knew they would know of his DHARMA secrets (bc Widmore knew of them). Ben sent the Others to the Temple where they'd be safe from the poison gas emitted from the Tempest. Ben knew Juliet was with the LOSTies. Ben had Dr. Harper, after a certain amount of time (if Ben never returned) appear to Juliet to tell her to kill the Freighter 4 and stop them from turning off the poison gas at the Tempest. We've already confirmed that the whispers were the Others way of confusing/distracting their victims so that they could attack/kidnap pple. Ben knew Widmore knew Ben knew about the poison and wanted to use it as a way to kill everyone on the Island who wasn't in the Temple (ie, the LOSTies and the Freighter 4). Now that episode can make sense. Harper was REAL. Not Smokie or an apparition.
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if you posted your bloddy finger post while LOST was airing onthe east coast, then I wasn't here to read it sir. I live in the left coast in Arnold land,.
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Darn, I almost had a workable explanation for the FlashSides [tm].There is a volcano on the island, right? So the part of the island submerged is not solid rock,it's a hollow tube.And the Islands bizarre electromagnetic flux properties can cause time travel jumps.So when Faraday's plan WORKED - Juliet bashed the fuse and the explosion of the bomb released the strange energies, it didn't JUST create a timeline in which 815 landed in LA X instead of crashing on the island it sent timetravel flux energies into the recent years past, causing all the changes between the original timeline and the LA X timeline. And the explosion plus the released energy shattered the hollow volcanic tube the island was set on, crumbling it and causing the island to sink. So, new LA X alternate universe, sunken island and various other changes all accounted for, with me so far?However, the DC Silver Age still had to have happened in order for those characters to go back and cause the Crisis on Infinite Earths that reset time and wiped the Silver Age from history. The LA X alternate would not could not exist UNLESS Faraday conceived a plan, Jack fulfilled it and Juliet bashed that fuse with a rock. So the original 815 plane crash HAD TO HAVE HAPPENED in order for the new LA X universe to exist. So the creation of a new alternate universe did NOT cause the original universe to cease to exist; Thus the continuing adventures on the island with the original characters we've known for five years.That theory seems to work for me at this moment, but I admit it's built of toothpicks stuck together with coffee, so go ahead and knock it apart for me. And feel free to come up with something more elegant that works better.
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I was responding to a previous post that suggested that the flash-sideways was IN FACT a flash-forward.
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DESMOND had got to factor in, SOMEHOW. Even Mrs. Hawking (who must have married a Mr. Hawking) told Desmond the Island wasn't through with him yet. And I hope that's true.
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the whispers have accompanied the smoke monster, the medusa spiders, ghost-libby, and ghost Christian Shepard. None of those are corporeal Ohers
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John Locke. Like many fans, I'm sure, Locke has always been my favorite (or at least shared the role with Sawyer) and I was really hoping after the season 5 finale that the "real" John Locke was not truly dead. Tonight's episode, when they buried him, seemed to suggest that the body in the coffin would not be coming back to life. BUT, it might be possible to bring the Alt. Reality John Locke to the island. Who could do that? Desmond. The character that I am most looking forward to seeing in action in The Final Season. I think that he has honed his abilities and is able to bounce back and forth between dimensions. I always think of Faraday telling Des that he is unique and the rules don't apply to him as confirmation of his importance and unpredicability. MAYBE John Locke was really special after all. Big point, he did not go on the Walkabout even in the alt. reality, thus he is still more important (more the same?) than any of the other characters and could still play a pivotal role on the island. He may just be the new Jacob after all... Goddamn I love LOST!
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u sure u alias isnt ZORRO from the DarkUfo comment section?? quit bitching about the ALT timeline... i mean for fuk's sake... the writers wouldnt JUST introduce something this late in the series for it to be...GASP...FILLER!!! i cant stand u people bitching about the ALT...
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Yeah, I just said the same thing: If MIB/FLocke was able to manipulate BEN of ALL people, he's playing the fuck out of Sawyer.
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Penny's last name is WIDMORE, which means her mother's name was Widmore, which means Charles married an off-Island woman while he was the Other leader. Think we'll get to see her? Think she'll die a mysterious death? Think Mrs. Hawking is behind it? Think Mrs. Hawking marries a man named Faraday and hence, Daniel's last name is such?
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is going to end with all of the 816ers at the bank for various reasons. Hurley will be there making a big deposit, in the bathroom. Kate will bust in the bank to rob the place and take hostages.
Kate: Everybody on the ground
Sawyer: Whatever you say, freckles
*everybody in bank laughs*
The End -
i play for keeps FRENCHEY!!!!!!!!
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When did the whispers accompany Smokie? They DEFINITELY accompanied corporeal Others 2 weeks ago when they kidnapped the LOSTies in the Temple catacombs.
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dude... I spent the entire summer debating that guy. Him and his "fake ALT, fake locke, fake jack" crap. To the point that Lindelof had to say in the podcast "stop calling the flash sideways fake, its offensive". Who are you over there? I'm John aka JohnConstant69 :) check out my theory on the "original island gods" :)
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Then do a Re: or @ whoever posted it next time, cause it read as you were posting that theory. Sorry dude.
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s1 or 2, re: smoke monster
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Neat, in my motherfuckin mouth!
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drink up!
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Maybe it ties the Others and Smokie together more than SMokie would like.
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If smokey or MIB couldnt penetrate the sonic fuckin fence, then where did it come from when Ben summoned it?
Cause...um, why couldnt it just come back thru where Ben summoned it from? Just sayin. -
GOOD LORD I AGREE!! that dumass was an idiot. ZORRO- the alt doesnt make sense because we're NOT INVESTED IN PEOPLE THAT ARE'NT REAL!!! umm... ALL Lost characters ARE NOT REAL...fucking idiot..
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my guess...
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i was the same over there. i posted a few times not alot though for obvious reasons.... just didnt want to fight another dumass on the net. took alot of patience though....
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Yeah, but It's weird. Like they were trying to keep the Hostiles and Smokie out, but all along there were underground tunnels and shit. So, Maybe it was a hoax the hostiles wanted Dharma to believe?
But I'm still with the idea that MIB and Jacob could turn into a pilliar of smoke.
Cause why would the MIB we know as FLocke let Ben summon it and do Ben's bidding. As in attacking the Mercs. -
I think we have to assume Alex's code, which let the Mercs in and also alerted the village to the infiltration, took down the fence for the entire perimeter. And yes, it seems Smokie travels by underground tunnel. Entirely possible.
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It was interesting how the names on the cave wall was written in chalk (I believe) and Locke was a teacher. Teachers use chalk. Probably grasping straws with that one though.
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about the mini "Reminder flashes" was that they should have begun and ended with a little half second long snippit of the flashback poom. That would have been funny.No, seriously, it did seem odd to introduce a new storytelling device that had never been used before.But speaking of introducing new things, I LOVED the Smokey POV steadicam tracking shots.Also speaking of introductions, lets start a pool on how close Lost will get to the final episode before they finally STOP INTRODUCING NEW CHARACTERS!
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IE, Ash made from Jacob's BURNED BODY!!! To protect herself from Smokie? Ahhh, is he a Phoenix?
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So now that we've seen the episode--what does the title mean?
The most straightforward answer is that Locke in the alternate universe becomes a substitute teacher--it could be no more than that, a joke, that we thought it would be a meaningful label describing someone's role in the grand scheme of things, but it's actually just a minor detail.
But is this necessarily true? *Is* there some greater meaning? Is this somehow what Fake-Locke is asking Sawyer to be: a substitute? For who--Jacob? Richard?
The alternate timeline might seem like filler now, but there's no way they would introduce a plot twist like this without it leading somewhere--this is the last season; surely they have some endgame in mind.
When people complain that it doesn't make sense for Kate to have gone back to help Claire, or for Claire to trust her--maybe that's the point? By normal logic, it doesn't make sense--but are the people in this alternate timeline influenced by the original versions of themselves? Does the bond that Claire and Kate had (through both their roles as mother of Aaron) somehow extend from the original universe to the alternate one? Is this why Hurley and Jack both offered to help Locke? Does this make it significant that Ben and Locke now work together? Something's going on with this alternate timeline, and perhaps it will make more sense as we learn about the forces that caused these people to come together in the original one.
As for the numbers on the ceiling: was there anyone there who wasn't on the plane? My first instinct is that this is a list of all the survivors of 815, and they are being crossed off as they die. -
Who else would cry so much over hearing the guy was dead?
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I get drunk and listen to Iggy real loud.
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if it is indeed another dimension, reality, or incarnation, then its 100% real, with real people who live real lives with real sitatuations, hopes , dreams, apsirations, etc. Just as real as the s1-5 people. thats why zorro didn't make any sense. I wanted to choke out the guy
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Flocke is a substitute for the Real Locke. Lots of interpretation.
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how about a blood relative
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People are saying we've never seen "reminder flashes" like the ones that reminded us of Jacob touching the people on the wall. It's not common, but I think we have seen them before. I'm pretty sure that at one point we saw a reminder flash of Jin on the freighter as it blew up--maybe when Kate visits Sun's hotel room in Season 5?
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the explanation for why the Others can't kill certain folk. Cross the Blue line. funny. To make it easy. Light and Dark.
The Dark team's players or recruits can't kill the Light teams players or recruits unless in defence of their life or the life of their teammates or coach. To do so is a violation of the rules. "The rules don't apply" -Juliet- Ben cheated ..."he changed the rules" -Alex- Widmore cheated. makeup call. To break the rules is to foul out. Catch a suspension from the Game. "He has ordered Juliet to be marked." She killed a team mate. yeah?
Did I also mention there are, Captains, Quarterbacks, Point Guards who call the play? Ben was breaking the rules. Jacob (the Coach) knew. And he pulled him. Lookin for a better skipper to play. Cause, Jacob knew Management was about to give him the heave ho, baby.
And its why Ms. Klugh commanded Mikhail to shoot her...so she might not be 'claimed' by the believed, perceived 'other' side.
This is a game about persuasion of a point of view, not violence.
Players. Must choose to join one of the, at least two teams, in contest. They cannot be forced into choice. They can be manipulated. coerced. cajoled. into choice. Room 23! HALLO, Pa!.
Oh, hey...what are all the Refs and umps supposed to wear?Wrong.
Impartiality.
Beyond watchin Das Glasperlenspiel ..we have been watchin, or will have watched about 85 hours of combinatorial cultural cricket.
And I dig it. -
Our group was clapping over it as 86 people watched.
Most applause of the night:
Old Spice Black guy commercial. Stole the damn show....dammnit. lol -
Lust for Life chica
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Claire's name was on wall. My money says that Shannon's name is too. Maybe both Jacob and MIB can impersonate the dead and other supernatural visions and he contacted all on list. Shannon and Syiad saw Walt, Claire at the cabin, Jack and his dad, Hurley and lock see things all the time, and Sawyer finally saw the kid tonight. And the dude in the eye patch told Kate she wasn't on the list in season 3. Also explains why Ben is so angry, i'm sure he wasn't even considered. Holy. Shit.
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Great idea! I just don't think its possible due to Jacob being hundreds of years old and why would Ilana care so much if she learned he's her great-great-greatx10 grand-uncle?
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it was introduced in s5 when Ben told Jack he didn't know what happened to Locke and it showed the reminder flash, also showed Sawyer jumping from the copter. So, no, calm down, this isn't some new awesome storytelling device, it was a directorial or editing choice, and i liked it. Its been done at least once before, and I feel like it was done more, just hardly ever. LOST expects its auidence to remember EVERYTHING, and sometimrs thats hard for people. Not me.. but people like my mom, for instance
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Jacob's substitute. I mean, that's all the episode was about.
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Nice job irrelevant mongoose! If you are right (and I seem to remember that), it is a GREAT reason as to why we didn't see Kate's name on the ceiling! Perhaps, Kate's name was on the list, but was supposed to be rubbed out, and THAT'S why Smokie charged after her and Juliet after their mud wrestling scene (other than to get in on the action). Very interesting. Course, Mikhail wouldn't have full disclosure regarding the lists.
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how do we KNOW that it was doing BEN'S bidding? everything that has happened with ben so far has HELPED mib. MIB has just been moving pieces around the board too...
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solidify the fact that Jacob touching these people WAS important.
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I think that is obvious now.
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Who knows what could have been had Jack not gotten his Apollo fix!!!
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Feb 17, 2010 1:29:34 AM CST
D.Vader,I think that Kate just hangs out out with popular kids.
by irrelevant_mongoose1
I think she's just a wild card overall, like Desmond. But how she lived this long would maybe be a stretch. She's the glue maybe, the connector to keep people motivated.
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to spank it. Seriously, I don't understand the Kate-hate.
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pickett only said SHEPARD wasnt on the list....hmmmmm...
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... Because she keeps Sawyer and Jack close together and invested in the Island. So she might not be a candidate bt is important as glue keeping the other candidates together and close by.
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when kate visited sun in la and it flashe d to jin on the freighter. BTW, in the non-LOST world, we call this a "callback" because no character is experiencing it, only the audience is. A flashback is where a character relives something from the past.
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Pickett would only know of the lists that Ben gave them, which Richard gave him. And even then, they'd only know of what names were given to them. Its possible they (Pickett) didn't know of all the names in the cave.
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but pickett said Shepard not JACK...just spitballing...
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Feb 17, 2010 1:37:25 AM CST
one thing affects another - the brilliancy on the LOST writing
by billboefett
MIB gets his plan rolling, but also gets screwed: Smokie appears to Locke as Walt and warns him not to trust the freighter folk. Because Locke moves into New Otherton bringing Ben with him, this ultimately leads to Alex dying, which leads to Smokie impersonating Alex and tricking Ben into killing Jacob. Also, if Locke hadn't gone to New Otherton, Claire wouldn't have ended up the way she did, and given up Aaron, whick Kate took, which will ultimately fuck MIB in the ass, because kate raised Aaron.
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That list could be name taken for thousands of years. It was definitely not know by all others who not to kill. Ben knew and probably told Juliet to kill anyone who would kill Saywer or Kate.
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I think it was MIB's list, of people to take out. That's why Jack could still not be on Jacob's list.
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What if that child was Jacob being resurrected like the pheonix and whoever is "The Substitute" MIB, or someone else is the substitute guardian of the island until Jacob is totally reborn?
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Feb 17, 2010 1:42:21 AM CST
Jacob or MIB used Jack's dads body as a conduit to reach Jack,
by irrelevant_mongoose1
He was dead before the plan left the ground.
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the white rock into the ocean? Just to show that he was in power or at least thought that he was?
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and we wont say anything right FETT?
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Feel free to take part. http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/
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someone might slip and tell or this will draw Texas like a moth to flame to reveal it for us.
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i think... RIGHT NOW... its looking like Jack's gonna be the new jacob because he ALWAYS HAS TO FIX SOMETHING...just like it looks like jacobs been trying to do...my current 2 cents
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"Thanks for the shoes, John!"
The End -
but lets not to anxious with "new" theories ok FETT??
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is what i meant to type
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That the sideways flashes are indeed building up to something very relevant (beyond a new tool for characterization). At least where he is involved.
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This game developed when I got all of my friends finally invested in LOST (during season 4 break [a couple people saw "The Constant" and were forever hooked])
Drink Every Time-
They say "Previously on LOST"
Every title screen
Jack is acting doctorly
Sawyer calls someone by a nickname
Hurley says "dude"
Desmond says "Brother"
Every commercial break
Locke lays down a hard truth
Eko lays down a hard truth (Double if it's on Locke)
Kate is sexy
Sun is sexy
Shannon is sexy
(or the dudes if you're female or homo)
Ana Lucia (also sexy) acts way too crazy
Dead person/something from one's past/Smoke monster manifests on the island-commonly referred to as "Island is being crazy"
Vincent is onscreen
Faraday sounds like a stoner
Time shifts
Character drinks alcohol (Chug for Dharma beer)
Characters get it on
These rules apply best to the early seasons, but I try to keep it alive. I should note that the only way to WIN the "Drinking LOST" game is to fail out of school and lose your job. I only did the latter (so close!)
Have fun fellow freaks!
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Every time-
Michael is a bad father -
flashback, flashforward, flashsideways DRINK!
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Sorry bitches! But you should still try to read the "rules." It's a fun ass game, but be warned: some episodes will be a bit foggy....
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MIB took Sawyer to his "list" or "recruits". we've seen jack and hurley in a totally different place with Jack proclaiming "why is my name on here"...."what does he want from me"? THAT JACOBS LIST. jacob tells hurley to take jack there for his list. sawyer TOTALLY ACCEPTS MIB'S LIST ( typical of his character ) and OF COURSE JACK REFUSES JACOB'S ( typical of his character ). its settin g up the ultimate pieces... that being... JACK VS. SAYWER for the islands...future?? hmmm sounds pretty good....
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Thats why out meetups are at a BAR! Ended bday week on a feelin nice note. And have a 12-pack of Guinness here to boot. Well, down to 8 now.
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Cut my life into pieces,
This is my last resort.
Suffocation,
No breathing,
Don't give a fuck if I cut my arm bleeding.
This is my last resort.
Cut my life into pieces.
I've reached my last resort,
Suffocation,
No breathing.
Don't give a fuck if I cut my arm bleeding.
Do you even care if I die bleeding?
Would it be wrong?
Would it be right?
If I took my life tonight?
Chances are that I might.
Mutilation out of sight,
And I'm contemplating suicide.
'Cause I'm losing my sight,
Losing my mind,
Wish somebody would tell me I'm fine.
Losing my sight,
Losing my mind,
Wish somebody would tell me I'm fine.
I never realized I was spread too thin,
Till it was too late,
And I was empty within,
Hungry,
Feeding on chaos,
And living in sin.
Downward spiral, where do I begin?
It all started when I lost my mother,
No love for myself,
And no love for another.
Searching. To find a love up on a higher level.
Finding nothing but questions and devils.
'Cause I'm losing my sight,
Losing my mind,
Wish somebody would tell me in fine.
Losing my sight,
Losing my mind,
Wish somebody would tell me I'm fine.
Nothing's alright,
Nothing is fine,
I'm running and I'm crying.
I'm crying.
I'm crying.
I'm crying.
I'm crying.
I can't go on living this way.
Cut my life into pieces,
This is my last resort,
Suffocation,
No breathing,
Don't give a fuck if I cut my arm bleeding.
Would it be wrong?
Would it be right?
If I took my life tonight,
Chances are that I might.
Mutilation out of sight,
And I'm contemplating suicide.
'Cause I'm losing my sight,
Losing my mind,
Wish somebody would tell me I'm fine.
Losing my sight,
Losing my mind,
Wish somebody would tell me I'm fine.
Nothing's alright,
Nothing is fine,
I'm running and I'm crying.
I can't go on living this way.
Can't go on.
Living this way.
Nothing's alright. -
Since both parties seem to have been fighting over the Losties thiw whole time. Maybe that's where this character stuff finally connects - they ultimately choose which side of the war to be on.
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not filled with trolls and hecklers for once.
Mac...like the "nurtured" Sideways Locke idea....dead on. Perhaps we'll see that play out at the wedding at the end of the season...with Locke STANDING at the altar with Helen. And not only will his REAL dad be standing next to him...Jack will be there....and Hurley....and Sawyer and Kate...and...
Wait a tick....sounds a bit "Wizard of Oz", eh? Maybe even Henry Gale will be there, too!
Tea anyone? -
To the Island. And have a full battle. Even Eloise can be like Mae Young of the WWE dammit!
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and kiss Jerry Springer RIZZ?????
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DL: A fart.
Secretsss... -
falling off his van hoist, out of his chair lying on the lawn and the sprinklers came on, Borderline slapstick comedy relief exploiting his bad luck. Then he gets fired. then his lost knives show up. Then he tells Helen "I lied to work about what I did on my vacation." Oops, lied to her abut it too. Then she opens up the box of knives. The guy can't catch many breaks. But then a guy in a wheelchair who thinks he can be a construction site foreman makes his own bad luck. Then he gets that substitute teach gig, has to be the girls gym coach and then teach a class on sex ed. That's kinda funny. Like to see that lecture as a DVD extra.The one good thing about being in a wheelchair paralyzed from the hips down and having Helen for a girlfriend/fiance: the delicious, delicious cunnilingus. I said that. Flashback to last weeks pre-episode "Lost's Hottest Hotties" debate: Helen for the win! Milfy!
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Awesome. But we still need an adam and eve. Sawyer already sacrificed himself once for Kate. Doubt he'll do it again.
Locke and Ben genuine friends in the split time? Gold. Our meetup went nuts when Ben appeared as a teacher. -
GO AWAY.....please
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Ahhhhh....You saw that too?! Ahhhh, lol. But yeah.
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Fake Locke called Sawyer "Dave", twice. As they were climbing down the cliff he yelled out"you coming Dave", and when Sawyer begin to fall Fake Locke yell out "Dave".
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i love me some santino or santina...i roll that way sometimes lol
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Was one of the best moments of tonight's ep. I want more of alt. reality Ben/Locke!! Big question: does Ben retain any knowledge of island?
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DONT JUDGE ME!!!!! too many Busch Lights and NOW im off to the bed....
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When HAVENT we felt sorry for Locke?
I posted this in the season 5 talkback that out LOST "Jedi council" going (from the finale till the season 6 premier) without the majority of the talk backers here.....
?
"I just so wanted Locke to belong, ya know? To the Others. It seemed like he finally found his home but with the time jumps he got gypped. Locke seemed to LOVE the Island and everything it was about way more than Ben ever could have. Ben seemed to make the Island do for him, not what the Island could BE for everyone on it."
POOM. -
2 things:
I love Santino.
FUCK JOHN CENA. = THE CHILDRENS CHAMP. -
that was the first post i've made in this whole TB (mainly because you among others are clearly antisocial douchebags), and it had nothing to do with heroes, it was a lost gag on jimmy kimmel.
Pull the giant black stone out of your ass and quit being an officious prick. -
1) Old Spice Black guy commercial. Stole the damn show. Well, that is a T-shirt waitin to happen. That above. And then the next line:
Dammit!
And then the next line: Guinness.
2) Dark Smoke from below. Light Smoke from above.
Oh? Didn't see the reflection in the window? Oh, now I got you thinkin bout the Wonster as posted back in 5.16/17...
Told ya so.
86 people. Truly? you da man. -
Referring to Cekma's Theory of the Time-travelling Rope - if Sayid was in the bus, or simply just leaning against it, the bus would have travelled as well.
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The Princess Bride. In fact, just today I got to the part where Westley, in disguise as THE MAN IN BLACK, pursues Inigo and Buttercup's other kidnappers up the Cliffs of Insanity. Tonight on Lost the MIB and Sawyer climb back down the cliff to the cave. Weird coincidence.Did anyone see Nemesis/NonLocke throwing dead Jacob's white rock into the ocean as an echo of Sawyer throwing dead Juliet's ring into the ocean? Sort of gave them something to bond over.Did the names scratched into the roof of the cavern remind anyone else of the map on the ceiling of the Dharma Station?Still rooting for story importance for the little guy minor characters. Cool seeing Rose getting on with her LA X life. Less cool seeing that jerk Randy again.Folks here still speculating about the Adam & Eve skeletons in the caves by the fresh water spring. I've always been happy to accept the black and white stones as literal and that they were a timelost Rose and Bernard. Though I'm still hoping they turn out to be Steve and Tracy.
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I watched tonight's ep. (with my gand of 3) an hour late on DVR. I was in control of the remote and saw about half of that commmercial i guess. Black dude says "Look at him. Look at me. etc." I say to my girlfriend "Don'y do what he says" and hit fast forward.
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I thought he yelled "Dave", but I watched it a couple times and he yells James, Sorry.
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Just remind her, you are a man who discovered the wheel, and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn!
That's the kind of man you are. She is just a woman with a small brain. With a brain a third the size of us.
It's science. -
Who has your back? Not us. Dont push it.
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I GUARANTEE YOU They arent Rose & Bernard. Pinky bet.
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*snicker* ..mine or DarkU's hmmpf..like some other guy ..anyway.
I believe, if MY post 10 months ago was correct ..he's tryin ta spoil ya bout Jacob's child.
Jus sayin. I lub Billboe. He / She want's to hot tub wit me in Oregon.
Eddie Murphy as James Brown style.
Sadly. They are both dead now.
Wait... What? Not both dead? Ok. -
Mainly a lurker here after just getting into Lost this season but wanted to say this talkback has had some really nice points and has been mostly polite. Thanks to everyone for their contributions.
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iS IT hot?!, is iT wET? sHOULD i GOT iN IT?
Im drunnk, but I can type lione breaks. -
Very Daniel Ocean.
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"dont push it"
"backup"
you guys are nuts. this is an overblown and archaic comment section on a website, not a goddamn gangfight.
Btw love the "jedi council" comment farther above... *eyeroll* -
Well, just this 1 particular TB. (talkback) Uh, the season opener...not so nice.
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wont bother commenting anymore, there are better places to read airtime lost threads anyways where you dont have to sift through essays on obscure literature or the ramblings of neckbeard drunks.
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At first i thought i was missing something. i wasnt seeing every episode (not that i thought i'd be missing anything) but i watched the 'lost breakdown' episode where it explained everything that had happened thus far. ......it's trash. pure trash. it's like a practice show for peoples art; be them cinematography, music, direction, acting.... maybe even script writing..... but at it's core, it is the most ridiculous show since twin peaks. the only thing more bizare to me is the fan love for it
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You said it. Gangfight? Well, welcome to the LOST AICN TB's.
As for Jedi council, sorry but regardless of decent TB'res here, NONE of them kept the season 5 talkback going save what we "joke" s out LOST Jedi Council.
Who the fuck are you bro? Have your kept up and read out threads? Gone to comic con and met Damon and Carlton and camped out overnight and recorded everything?
I break my ass for this show and my meetup group or over 300 members.
Tell me what you do for this show. -
That's why you are the guy who kills the shark. Me?
I'm just the over-educated douche hiding on the bottom...
I tweren't foolin bout the ALT-LOST opening credits wrote above. It ends on Kate, terrified, cowering, in that Magic tree, where for whatever reason, writ or cannon, the monster can't go. That's at least twice she has gone to ground there. Others soon will see and experience the Yoda-Dagobah tree. I think. -
people give me shit for enjoying star trek so..... go nuts with it
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He is your Host. Show some respect to his largess, sister.
He puts up with all of this bull ying yang.. at his expense.. and our amusement. You should thank him. Buy a blu-ray off his links, like we have done did. Don't insult him, cause friendo, that is the most non-muy bueno -
"Ji Yeon = conceived on island, born off. Aaron = born on island, conceived off. The two balanace out the equation, return to the island at an earlier time by time travel, live out their lives together, and die in a cave. We call them Adam and Eve."Wasn't there a rumor about a scene shot a season or so ago about a grown up Aaron and an Asian girl alone on the island?
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"My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
http://tinyurl.com/yk4l46d
..in the Alt-Whatever. -
might Shepherd actually refer to Christian? Considering that a Smokey has appeared in the form of Christian, and consistent with Marsdale's theory that it was Jacob posing as Christian all along - and Hawkings comment that Jack had to bring Locke's body back to the island as a substitute for his father.
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He does. He already got his replacement last Season. I'm sure this season will culminate in Jack being finalized as Jacob's replacement/avatar. It would be pretty cool if the series ended with Jack and Locke sitting on the beach by the foot, watching a ship roll in/plane crash.
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when Sawyer and FLocke were swinging on the rope ladders on the way down to the cliff cave?
I thought for sure that FLocke was gonna grab Sawyer's chest and start shouting "Khali Maaaarrr!!! Khali Maaaaarrr"! And the little kid was gonna be at the top of the cliff shouting "Cover yer heart, Sawyer!"....or when Sawyer fell, we were gonna get the obligatory shot of crocs chewing on empty clothing!
The Sideshow Collectibles ad for Mola Ram reminded me of that scene. -
Interesting, in that I see Twin Peaks as one of the most amazing and creative series to ever grace tv. At this point I'm kind of wondering if your tastes lie more with the kind of show where people adjust their sunglasses while making puns about dead bodies?
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I was hopin maybe Big Walt would stick his head out the cave and say:
"No time for Love, Dr. Jones!"
Awesome.
But at this point, I am Crum Petree. And by the time I get to your snazz, I'm pretty well liquored up and pissed off. LuPo. -
That was Caruso-mag-nificent. Outstanding!
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dunno if anyone's already said it, but there it is
sure Jack's the obvious choice, but really... if there WILL be a replacement, I highly doubt it will be anyone else
so... they're not 815 seat designations -tho Jack was 23D I think?
btw if anyone is going to be a MIB replacement, surely it must be JARRAH!! -
it was a lol of an ep (locke fallin, richard running off like a bitch, sawyer)... i was wrong bout smokey bein flocke... somethin is up wit ben in lax, his hair was really DARK... kate not special since flocke said "last but not least" to sawyer meanin he named the important ones... love that sawyer is in the middle of the mythlogy arc and just dealin wit character development ... lil kid was weird most likely aaron seein as it would seem too easy for jacob to be reborn or reimaged... i think mib and jacob are both the protecters but mib wants to be fired (i say this cuz flocke empathized the "he THINKS HE IS THE PROTECTER")... and ben will sacrifice himself in whatever way leadin to the island sinkin (as a team ben guy, i was annoyed at how he lied bout jacobs death but i know he will set things right)... vincent should had popped up or at least have his name up... locke deserves a shitty life (just answer her! what animal are you?!)... damn tuesday needs to be everyday... and fuck jacob!
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it would be great if sawyer manipulate flocke... it would be a kickass karmic mindfuck!!!!
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Really, when things are settling down and we are getting some decent back and forths, you can still rely on folk like Rizzo to come out with:
"I posted this in the season 5 talkback that out LOST "Jedi council" going (from the finale till the season 6 premier) without the majority of the talk backers here..... "
So lets just all acknowledge that Rizzo and Jay are the primo number one fans of this show. Know and understand it more than anyone else on the entire tb and will be right about anything they post.
Great well done guys, its not quite up there with penicilin but its still a heck of an achievement to know so much about a TV show and to have met the writers.
Question is , what do you get out of this tb ? Don't you think a little private enclave somewhere might be more appropriate for you fans extraordinaire.
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john saw boone
john saw yemi through the eyes of eko
john saw horace
ben saw alex
and then sun and the pilot saw christian
hugo saw christian and locke in the cabin
hugo saw dead charlie and eko and jacob.....
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watched it this morning before work, really enjoyed it. Lost is still being mostly a big flirty tease but is definitely a hot one.if smlocke is honest and cant leave that would make my bald dave is smokey theory all crappage but nevermind. I even enjoyed the flashsideways this time, Lockes interactions were much better viewing than Kate's, but I think I've finally comes to terms with the fact that she is a very dull, flawed and expendable part of the show. I was a bit hurried at this point but was kate noticeably absent from the cave roof of names?
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1st thing she comes in with, says:
Rizzo..sniff sniff..blah, blah, blah.
Really? 2leg, really? Offer nothin and pick a fight? Baby..look sugar, no one is gonna join your whinge except your many own.. *snort* own logins.
Be a big girl. Gig not the Rizzo or Jay. They are smarter, stronger, built better.
Anyway, please, stay if you will, but offer somethin other than bait, babe.
mmmkay. thanks. I knew you could feature the compliance, lassie.
Carry on. -
Cause I can just as well go away, George, and live in a cave.... You can just as well go to hell. And the sycamore leaves whispered. Run, rabbit, run! Oh my God, Kate is John Updike!!!! Stay and do nothing – two characters will turn down the mythology, and become Adam and Eve? Two characters will accept Jacob’s calling, and take over the MIB / Jacob roles? MIB wants to leave, Sawyer to the Frozen Donkey Wheel? Ben wasn’t a candidate. Locke didn’t work. Maybe Widmore moved the island in the past and that didn’t work either. Jacob now reincarnated as Aaron? Not sure where Sayid fits. The not knowing Jin or Sun is nice – this must explain Sun not time flashing? Their daughter? Was Frank a candidate? Richard now even more interesting. Illana and Richard don’t know each other so I wonder if she knows Dogen at the temple. Oh, and if she was touched by Jacob but doesn’t have a number, WHAT DOES KATE DO?!?!?!?!
Nice work showing Smokey isn’t all powerful. Now he’s assumed the identity of a candidate he can’t change? Until when / because of what? He sees weird shit too, because of Jacob. He used to be a real man? The rules say he can’t kill Sawyer. But Locke is dead. Is Jacob dead? Did Widmore break the rules? And yet the cliff scene works so well to show that Sawyer can still face danger. Just because Smokey cannot kill him does not mean he can’t die.
Is Smokey right telling Sawyer that Jacob is wrong about the island, it doesn’t need protecting? Is he right telling Richard that Jacob has not been truthful? Or is it misdirection. Possible that there’s another layer of mythology bigger than MIB and Jacob, that cuts to the Island itself? We’ve seen it before, groups of people think they have answers, or we think they do, but it turns out they don’t know the big picture either. The main characters we know will end up being very high up the island hierarchy – they just don’t know it yet.
Jacob doesn’t want to quit as island protector. MIB wants to go home. Somehow they are linked. One can’t leave without the other? So the loophole is about creating a situation where there’s a window of opportunity for somebody to jump on the merry-go-round and take over from Jacob. If MIB can get that person to leave the island with him, he’s free, no longer trapped. And two other candidates will take over their old roles. But Jacob still has time to regain his position. Could this be how the game works? Ben and Widmore may have been pretenders to the throne who were mislead by MIB as he sought advantage. Interesting MIB doesn’t know to cross out Sayid. So something else is in play there…. Or are Sayid and Sawyer in the same boat for the moment? Kate seems to be a wildcard doesn’t she. Has Jacob hidden her from view. Is Kate the loophole? Kate escapes, gets out of things, cheats, lies, tricks.
The Claire / Kate thing is interesting too, different mothers for Aaron, different outcomes?
Shepard is 23. Which Shepard?
They have to get Ben into that cave so he can find Jacob hasn’t even put him on the list, LOL
I still wonder if the Frozen Donkey Wheel has as much to do with the flash side ways and the island sinking as the bomb did. Hurley and Locke and Ben and the Cabin seems to be the start of MIB being revealed to us now, and he wanted the island moved, but Ben did it instead of Locke. Then Christian told Locke he was supposed to do it. Then we got both the time flashes and Locke getting the O6 to return to the island leading to the bomb going off. So the bomb came about because of the Cabin and the Frozen Donkey Wheel. But Jacob touching the O6 allowed him to influence what was going on somehow, so it’s not clear what the outcome or the intention was. Is that chain of events complete yet, or still playing out, leading to the alt-reality? Did Juliet flash between both when she was dying, like Charlotte seemed to flash through time? I think Widmore must have left the island by Frozen Donkey Wheel in the past, but then how did Eloise go home as well? Whose side is she on – and therefore Desmond and Faraday? That Constant business is a big deal, the significance of which we’re still waiting for. The whispers aren’t entirely out in the open yet either. Could they be to do with Sayid being claimed?
This candidate business is a good way of tying up loose ends of characters who got discarded sooner than seemed appropriate. Not perfect, but good.
I still wonder if these character’s kids will show up as old people from the island’s history, since time travel and long life is an option. They come to the island years after 815, then somehow get transported back to ancient times. Seems like a missed opportunity not to have an old Walt to get round that, perhaps with old Aaron (Jacob?) and old Ji Yeon .
So, Sawyer isn’t being used as a candidate by MIB, but as a Substitute? The difference being…. ?
Is Richard right then that MIB wants to kill the candidates? Or just the ones who would side with Jacob? Interesting that the faith side of things has “rules” to it. They’re just not the sort of things most people get to know about. But do Jacob and MIB know ALL the rules?
Also why six numbers. Are there candidates for more than one position? And has this game been played many times, with these people, and different variations leading to the same outcome? Is it a difficult game to win? So far, every time it’s been played, they both lost? Do Jacob and MIB have peers who are not playing the game? And just who is protected under the rules?
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Does Smokey WIN by finding the right candidate to depose Jacob, and go home via Frozen Donkey Wheel? How does Jacob win? Is Jacob not following the rules because he just wants to live on the island? He's refusing to play the game? Is that why they LOST? This science/faith thing has been played out before, and its important to interpreting the rules...
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When Smokey goes over the line, Walter is the only one who cares about the rules. Jacob just pisses on the dude's rug. Or was that the Chinaman? I dunno.
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Something we need to find out is how Jacob is free to go and touch the O6 in America, but Smokey cannot leave the island. WHEN (by which I mean in his own chronology, not what year)does Jacob make these travel arrangements?
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Thanks for your input - totally unasked for of course, but thanks anyway.
"They are smarter, stronger, built better"
You're just all elitist idiots aren't you. How old are you ? Have you really looked at yourself recently and your behaviour to others.
Anyway your descriptions were a bit odd of your fellow nerds. Go on , you can tell me privately which one you fancy the most. I like Rizzo but don't tell Jay.
Hugs girlfriend. -
John saw boone. Hit!
John saw yemi through the eyes of eko. Misfire.
John saw horace. Hit!
Ben saw alex. Hit! (quibble)
Sun and the pilot [Frank] saw Christian. Hit!
Hugo saw Christian and Locke in the cabin..a miss! (John saw Christian and Claire..a hit!)
Hugo saw dead Charlie. Hit! But, not on the Island..a miss! Jack saw Christian, again, off the Island..a miss!
and Eko. Not seen..a miss! (but Ana Lucia was..a miss!)
and Jacob. Hit!
Outstanding work. Better memory, man. You overlorded me. Well done, sir. Well done.
You sank my Battleship! -
Adam and Eve are actually the MIB (the body we saw him in in the season 5 finale) and the woman that he cared about that he mentioned to Sawyer in the cave. I think he said something about losing someone he cared about. You hear it here first. I think.
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i'm sure someone mentioned this but i noticed something. when illana gathered jacob's ashes in a bag i wondered if maybe thats why the circle of ash usually keeps smokey out. its always been the "leftovers" of different bodies that Jacob's used over the years. though i think the ash was black or really dark as opposed to the light color Jacob's were so maybe that kills that theory but just throwing it out there. lol
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Do you think that woman could be someone we've met? And why Sawyer? Does Smokey have some connection to Sawyer due to what's to come? I think that scene with the names is set up to get us asking why isn't Kate there, she was touched by Jacob too. So I wonder if she's the loophole. But could she be the woman MIB cared about? And they're Adam and Eve? Could Sawyer be MIB? WHAT DOES KATE DO? LOL.
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I like this idea that it's a person. And Kate does fit the bill as the kind of person who would be good at cheating to get out of something, so her back story is a metaphor / foreshadowing of this role on the island? Probably a wrong headed guess but it could work.
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No one is an elitist, 2leg. Thats just dumb. When we, some of us, go 'arrogant' (mostly me)..its much a goof. Feature the uptake, darlin.
Now. What we don't do is beam in 800 posts into a bonnie, mostly troll free talk back and look to stir up some shit. Like you did, baby.
Rizzo and Jay can handle there own junk *snicker* But. Hey. If you have a problem with me. If you feel you need to try that case right quick? Jump, lil froggie.
Google me as you will. You'll find me. My age, my all right and your desired assignation.
I don't hide my self behind anonymous nothings. You'll taste the flavor..hmmpf. Well, you can come right back here and flex your web muscles and tell me when and where. If you want, belgian britches. -
Anything Locke centric is good for me.
Can't help thinking that alt Locke is being pushed down a certain path and so, regardless of him tearing up Jacks card he'll end up seeing him.
Slight concern that UnLocke says to Richard "You've been following Jacobs orders without knowing why?". Bearing in mind Ben acknowldeged never having talked to Jacob it means there is likely to be little justification for any of the Others actions towards the Losties other than them being todders - sigh.
Loved the funeral - love how I keep changing my feelings toward Ben. -
Jack becomes MIB to save Kate, who lives out her days with Sawyer as Eve and Adam. Christian is Jacob, and MIB just killed him, because he has DADDY ISSUES. There have been different incarnations over time as the game progresses, but the series as we know it is the start. They some how end up in the past, and the game is finishing just as their younger selves arrive, and the loop begins again.
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In season three, others said to each other why did we take Jack he is not on Jacobs list. (reason was selfish part on ben because wanted a spinal surgent to tuma).....now fast forard to season 6 and suddenly jack is on the list and jacob did meet/infulence him,,,,,
if I am wrong and writers are not just making this stuff up...please explain...would love to know what i have missed? -
Two different lists. We can imagine Jacob had a particular purpose in mind giving the Others a particular list of names at that time. Remember fake-Locke's surprise that the others had been obeying Jacob without an explanation. Jacob only told the others what they needed to know. There's no reason for us to expect he would have given Ben, et al the accurate and complete list from the cave wall.
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It may not be Jack on the list. It could easily be his father.
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"yeah! So WHAT!"
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guess will have to wait and see!
(don't know why, but I still think MIB is the good guy and Jacob bad...i.e. killed sayed's wife, send Sawyer on a murder hunt and was eating a 'red hearing')
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so the kid was telling Smocke he can't kill Sawyer - just like he can't kill Jacob or HURLEY!
anyone from the above "Dave" debate still around?
coz this episode just OWNED your theory that Dave was a throwaway episode - "Dave" was Smocke trying to trick Hurley into hurling himself off the cliff SO HE COULD CROSS HIM OFF HIS LIST - and because he can't kill Hurley himself...
filler MY ASS!
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so that was Smocke's own little cave right? which begs the question - is he running the longest con of long cons in the history of long cons? just how much of what he told Sawyer can we believe?
ok let's pretend he really does want to get off the island - to "return home" (remember Ji yeon was born off island too) maybe to somewhere in Tunisia? and so he needs the island powers-that-be to let him, preferably with an agreeable "candidate" - well that doesn't quite ring true to me but let's choose to believe it for a second.
let's also believe that the island "doesn't need" a protector and everybody will be just fine without one - THAT IS EXACTLY THE SCENARIO THAT IS BEING PLAYED OUT BY THE FLASH-SIDEWAYS
somebody theorised a few TB's ago that maybe Smocke is trying to create an alternate reality and Jacob is trying to keep it real - is that "The War" that's a comin? A clash of "What Happened Happened" original timeline "protectors" and Jughead "Variable" Doc Browns??
one last thought - the Adam and Eve skeletons - is Eve confirmed to be female? Once again, taking what Smocke said with a grain of salt, could these two be the skeletons of Jacob and Smocke, from back when they were both just regular, corporeal guys? -
I am still here/back from the Dave debate. I was one of the few arguing its importance and while I don't feel totally vindicated, I feel like it went a long way to backing up my theory that Dave had a larger meaning than just showing Hurley is crazy.
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I mean, felt like I was watching a real movie.
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I think we have seen that MIB can only take over as the bodies that are corpses brought to the island and did not die there (Jack's father and Locke) and is locked (no pun intended) into them. I believe Jacob can only take over from babies born on the island.
I think the kid telling Smocke he can't just kill him was referring to Jacob and not Sawyer. The kid was saying that it isn't that simple for Smocke to escape. Though now it is obvious with the scale thing, that one island-keeper has to die before the other can be free.
So I think the ending of the story will be two of our cast members sitting on the beach watching a ship come in or a plane crash. -
Don't know about you, but that's the first unanswered question I remember. Charlie said it at the very end of the 2 hour pilot.
Guys....we know where we are.
Look away if you don't wanna know.
For me the stones on the scale were not as big a deal as were the scales themself. The light and dark stone were balancing each other out. To me, that was the inside joke...and the big clue to where we are.
If light and dark represent good and evil, then the scales were telling us that neither can be "loose" in the world. If there was nothing but good, would we even be human? Don't we need a balance?
Flocke doesn't seem to think so. He threw away the light and tipped the scales to complete darkness. But imagine a world where there is only darkness.
He wants all of us...everyone you care about....dead. So Richard told Sawyer. If you had been protecting the light for all these years and knew now the dark was "free", how scared would you be? And Richard was very frightened.
But Flocke isn't exactly free, is he? What are you? I'm trapped. He didn't say that in the past tense. In fact, in the cave with Sawyer when he gave him the 3 options, the 3rd was not I can leave. It was WE can just leave.
So apparently Flocke is not free...at least not yet. Apparently he needs someone to help him escape. Help him leave. But Jacob's dead. Why can he not just leave?
Because there are still security things holding him there. Security. He has to beat security. It's not enough he's out, he's still not free.
Guys, where are we? We are in some sort of prison. A prison to either keep darkness from engulfing us all, or maybe to keep the balance between light and dark the showtakers are seeming to tell us we need to survive. And with a prison with this type of prisoner, there has to be special security devices.
I started to list them, but you know what they are. And Flocke is not free because of them, he's only loose. And he's claiming, and he's recruiting. And the final battle will begin soon to recapture him. To lock (pun intended) him back up.
Where are all our old Prison Break talkbackers we used to see in here now? -
What if one represents Smokey WON, and one represents Smokey LOST?
On the beach at the start of the season five finale, MIB says he found a loophole. This is in the era of the Black Rock, so the inference is time has been played out many times before, and could be again - the game is stuck in a loop, possibly because of Jacob’s subversive playing style.
MIB has to be patient to utilize his loophole, we should imagine, because it must be relevant to the current day storylines and characters we know as the series. But the Black Rock is the first part of it.
We can assume that Jacob’s actions, touching the O6, are his response to MIB’s loophole. MIB sets the current part of his plan in action, escaping from the cabin, spinning the frozen donkey wheel, killing Jacob etc. But this is not decisive. Did the right person spin the wheel? Has Jacob changed things via the O6, leading to the nuclear explosion? This coincided with the Incident, and Jacob dying and saying They’re coming, and then his body turning to ash. It’s still playing out.
Now this is they key thing. Even though he killed Jacob, MIB is still manoeuvring, as we’ve seen. So Jacob’s body may be dead, but he’s still around. MIB hasn’t won, yet. But he’s close. We saw the kid, whether it’s Aaron or not - I think effectively Jacob has lost his Queen powers, giving MIB a temporary advantage. He’s going to use this window to try and win, which for him means going home. I think with Sawyer he thinks he’s now got the right piece to make the winning move, and the board is set up to allow him to do this. But Jacob still has a chance to beat him.
I think MIB is going to take another spin of the Frozen Donkey Wheel, and thinks this will get him home. But something ambiguous will happen due to interference from another player, and this is what causes the dual time lines – not the nuclear incident. Or rather, the wheel, the bomb, the time flashes, the ghosts, they’re just moves that are concurrent parts of the finishing combination. They all cause the fracture. And this is MIB playing his Loophole – except it doesn’t go according to plan!
Two things suggest this. Faraday seemed to think the bomb would restore them to the plane never crashing, even though this broke the rules of physics as he understood them previously, under his mother’s guidance. Yet they time flash to the hatch still having been built. Now time splintering into two is the inference we’re being led to, after the bomb. But clearly we’ve not been told this explicitly yet and there’s certainly ambiguity, perhaps setting up a reveal. Juliet first seems to think it didn’t work. Then that it did, as she’s dying. Maybe in their world, the bomb just caused one last time flash taking them back to the right place, after Locke had corrected the wheel leaving them stuck in 1974. Only by dying does Juliet step outside time and see the consequences of the endgame of MIB and Jacob in 2007.
Cause this is the rub. The bomb going off can’t be the loophole or the entirety of Jacob’s reply. Because MIB is still running around making moves trying to clinch it, after that happened (in the characters’ chronology, not in a what year is it sense). Jughead is just part of it. Juliet makes her sacrifice to get them back to 2007, but it’s tragic this delivers a grief stricken Sawyer to MIB, but this in turn may reverse to him being the one who makes the move that gets them off the island, to a 2004 where the plane never crashes. But then, what are the consequences of letting MIB beat Jacob? Will the characters in 2004 find out about the island underwater, and raise it, by spinning the Frozen Donkey Wheel in Scuba equipment? LOL. What if the Black Rock is some part of them going back to the island, after the 2004 timeline resolves itself? Not sure how that one would work…
But seriously, why would the bomb cause two time lines? But MIB going home…. That might. Perhaps we’ll know more if we get hints of Jacob and MIB in the 2004 X world. We know Jacob can leave the island, so in the alt world, my bet is MIB can too. Will the streams converge because what happens next in 2007 island time isn’t what certain characters expect it to be, and somebody like Desmond can get the information across worlds to sort it out? Then we see things play out at an earlier time in the island’s history, before these events were set in motion, and everything gets corrected? Maybe in the end there’s a choice. To keep repeating the loop, or to break it. Each choice favours some, but requires sacrifice on both sides.
Maybe MIB and Jacob, from an earlier time, are trapped in a loop that begins with the Black Rock. MIB thinks 815 is part of breaking that loop, but it goes awry, starting a fresh cycle that merely replaces his old trap. Jacob understands, which is why he keeps the status quo. So I’m hedging here, LOL. The new 2004 alt reality could be if Jacob succeeds in preventing MIB from springing his loophole, and 815 never crashes. So I’m not sure if the splinter is MIB escaping, or staying trapped, but I think that’s a more likely cause of the flash sideways than the bomb going off. The bomb is important, but just one facet of the end game between Jacob and MIB.
(NOTE to some people – nobody is saying the folk in 2007 time travel to a new 2004 with amnesia, LOL. They’re just questioning whether the reason there seem to be two realities is just that we’re still seeing the “original” timeline getting erased. When that happens, we’ll just have LA X, which is what Faraday was anticipating. So 2007 is the consequences / aftermath of Jughead, it’s just that Jughead had ramifications for the island mythology that we’re now seeing, which will explain the alt-verse. Maybe somebody will also attempt a reset in the 2004 LA X timeline too, setting up the series end run. The reveal of the names on the cave roof shows there’s a lot more going on than has been explained yet, and that certain entities have knowledge of things that can’t logically have happened yet, in the chronology of the characters we know. Which has implications for that What Happened Happened mantra, only with the future feeding into the past. And yet the loophole is to reset reality so that loop is broken. Maybe that’s part of a loop too, and different iterations have been playing out not just across time, but across reality, or consciousness, or whatever – The Constant business rather seems to have been a pre-cursor for this. And the island is the nexus of understanding metaphysical knowledge about reality. So anyway, just some harmless speculation! Plus, is there any reason to presume that 2004 LAX and 2007 Island are somehow concurrent in consciousness, just because we’re seeing stories from each presented together in episode structure? Until we’re explicitly told that in a Desmond episode, I think not. Those moments in space time are no more tied together than the 2004 LA X and the 2004 Island plane crash – well except actually, there are visual clues that Jack realises something different just happened in 2004 – the welt on his neck, the strange looks, the plane shuddering, as they fly above the submerged island. So it’s just presentation of the episodes that juxtaposes 2004 and 2007 at the moment. Presumably 2004 will catch up, or they might jump around with some flashbacks, if the story needs it.)
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You know how we've had all the different Deadwood stars play roles on LOST. Did you know Illana was on Married With Children? Look it up. She played one of Al's tall, long-legged shoe store women.
And Katie Segal played who? -
Lol, what an ass of a pussy show! I read all the wiki catch up articles, something about Dharma and Greg and some nuking bullshit....(LOL)....and now I finally watched the episode, and it was balls out boring as fuck.
And you people hated BSG????
Faggots! -
At least it had some action. LOST has......people walking?
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BSG I meant. You guys are still queers though.
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That would be a nice rotational symmetry. Jacob reincarnated through birth, Smokey reincarnated by death. Hmmmm. Think too, 815 brings Christian's dead body, and his grandson's unborn foetus. Both story lines which have to be paid off in a big fashion. I wonder if we'll see a similar situation with the Black Rock. I'm not clear on the rules about why Smokey is now LOCKED in as it were, as he seems to have been able to change forms. Also, there is the question of who was trapped in the Cabin. Are there two smoke monsters? How was MIB taking forms to appear to people early on in the show, if he was trapped, and if he doesn't have freedom to change forms? For instance, he appeared to Ben as Locke, and then as Alex, and then as Locke again, only a few episodes back in Season Five. Is it because Jacob is dead, it creates a new situation? Both have taken on new forms. But at what point does that become flexible again? And MIB says he was once a man - is that the guy we saw on the beach? How did he become Smokey? What is Smokey? Is/was Jacob still a man, or did he become something else too? This woman MIB cared about, is that why he and Jacob are rivals? Would mirror the Kate, Jack, Sawyer situation. So something happens to them on the island, and one becomes life, one becomes death, reincarnate? One is a protector, one is a destroyer? Where did the Jacob and MIB bodies we saw on the beach, before the Black Rock, come from, how were they brought to the island? And what are these island entities that ensnared them?
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Had a quick check on your profiles as requested and apparently you are 42 years old.
That, and the style and content of your posts tells me all I need to know and so I think, if its okay with you, I'll just bow out of this conversation.
I meant no real harm other than to instil a bit more self awareness into you and your friends that , for grown men, you come across as immature pricks.
Sadly on reviewing the evidence its clear there is nothing I can do to help.
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Feb 17, 2010 8:16:39 AM CST
1 reason this episode was much better than last weeks
by kenny_fucking_powers
No not because there was no Kate, but because there was no Temple Others scenes. God they suck. Go Team FLocke!
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No, you're the queer.
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That's funny!
Wait...no. No, it's not. Sorry. Got confused for a second. You were just being too loud of a douche. -
yay someone whos sane, and not a victim of massive hallucinogen intake!
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He is a con artist. He knew how this would play out all along.The MIB would try to recruit. But little does MIB know, Sawyer will con him in the end.
Everyone that Jacob recruited has a special skill, which he will use to his advantage against MIB. -
My money's on Jack and Sawyer sitting on the beach watching a ship come. Their constant conflict has been a big part of the show and MIB said he has loved and lost too to Sawyer. Sawyer's rage over Juliet's death is only growing and the kind of thing that could turn him into the next MIB.
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"that was Smocke's own little cave right?" ...right on. When I saw the corner cave office I thought.. well that's odd. Jacob's man cave? No. You are much more right. Jacob under the statue, 'Other' guy on ..or in the rocks. Screw my confidence picks. Well. Wait no. no Wait.
At this point. WE don't know for sure who Non-John is...other than 'his' professed nature. Not a 'what'.. but a 'who'. A 'man'. Who has experienced most things ..forgive me for typin.. 'Men of a Certain Age' have. Love and Loss. Win and Lose. But, with the benefit of an extended perception. would you agree? Of Mice Men. "Before my time"...How long before his time?
Non-John wants to go 'home', as PA said. And as you say, Tunisia. But its not just where is it, its 'when' idn't...maybe what. That, as the Bard says, is the rub.. Recover. It still is confidence picks. If it's Non-Johns cave, and it is he who is ticking off all of Jacob's 'candidates'. Then it's not Backgammon is it which is about removing your pawns from the board before the other fella can. But. Again. Getting off the Island is very privileged information...as Richard said.
Jacob is or was (when this show got to here) still down to his final six. Non-John can't kill them by his own hand...Ghosty bloody hand boy said so. But might he be able to claim them? or corrupt them? One by one after an 'other'? hmmpf.
*Jack said Adam and Eve were male and female.
*We don't know who is right to do what.
*As to Dave...remem. Hurley said, "Doc says, your negative" Never featured that as insignificant.
Fantastic! Maniaq. Set my mind a goin again and more with that simple pick up. dammit.. You da man. right on. Magister Ludi!
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Good observation Sawyer will try to mislead MIB. We got that with a neat reversal, where we think Saywer is the one being led into the woods to die, then he pulls a gun on Smokey, and shows grief has made him fearless. But then on the ladders, we see he wants to live. He is frightened, he fights to survive, the tension is real. Smokey is giving him some sense of purpose, and he does want that again. But once he has some answers, his purpose may become to defeat Smokey. His fearlessness at the moment will let him try this, but also, the rules that Smokey can't kill him will allow him opportunity to betray a dangerous enemy. However, I wonder if it might make a good story if Sawyer sets everything in place to betray/defeat Smokey by aligning with him, only to back out of the Darth Vader moment and not chuck the Emperor into the abyss. He succeeds in conning Smokey, but can't take the victory, because he is faced with a choice concerning Jack and Kate. And with that choice, he sacrifices himself by not stepping back into the light, becoming Smokey, instead of vanquishing him.
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i took the blond haired kid to be jacob in i guess what could be called his basic form, mib is in power now and clearly worried others (sawyer) could see him (jacob)
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So is it a misdirection that Aaron is a blonde kid? Since we're presumably done with the off-island original time line, could the flash sideways be leading to Aaron coming back to the island? And he grows up to be Jacob? He's got intuitive knowledge of the island he shouldn't have, like Walt did? When Richard tested Locke, it wasn't about what ended up happening with Locke, it's about what's in store for Aaron? But this is a different version of Jacob, because in one time line he was raised by another, and in the other he isn't? So which is which? Ah, so could this be McGooCain's two sides of the same coin thing? The point of the flash sideways in this theory would be that it creates two rival versions of Jacob, who both make it back to the island in the same reality somehow?
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So MIB wants to merge things back so he and Jacob are one, and Jacob doesn't want that?
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Ahhhh. ya know. I was going to beat your goo foo boo child-y down with great prose and such...then I figured. I realized. Your just a kid. Just like Sean Maguire... Who, even as a fictional character, I share several traits with..and is more than spot on in how to handle, deal with a choad like you.
Your just a kid. You haven't the slightest idea what your typin about.
chickenshit.
That was me. I Lost the patience and interest of Sean there. Sorry.
Pussy. Seriously, I apologize. I can't help myself. Dumb ass. Godsdammit, I did it again.
Look, you go over there and I'll go over here...and I won't bother you if you don't bother me. Cunt.
Peace. -
It seems the episode made most of you turn retarded. A bunch of "maybe its because..." and other nonsense speculation, most of which is entirely wrong anyway. Before the episode we were all sticking to the facts that we know. Now that we know about candidates and replacements...you've all lost your minds. You're all just making things up. I think we learned a lot of interesting stuff last night, but none of it really changes anything we already know. The candidate stuff is the most telling, and the fact that he also wanted Richard to go with him (and Richard isn't a candidate obviously, still wanted him) leads me to believe needing Sawyer to leave with him isn't an telling as some of you are making it out to be. And then why would UnLocke need a replacement? He's the prisoner. The guards need to change sometimes, the prisoner doesn't. If he escapes, the game is over it seems to me. I don't know, I just wanted to say most of you are getting too excited and throwing out wild theories that have no grounding. Slow down. Think some stuff out. And the fact that Eko's name isn't on the wall is not the reason Smokey killed him. It just isn't. He said "Locke would get me close to Jacob" or whatever. Eko wouldn't, because Eko didn't develop into the spiritual leader he needed. He was considering using one or the other, he chose Locke, but I don't think it has anything to do with the wall of names, because Smokey knew about the wall the whole time and could have killed Eko immediately if that was his only reason. That just doesn't make sense.
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regarding killing everyone. Changing the time lines back wipes out certain iterations of whole groups of people. But is that for the best? A greater good? Surely the Losties will be faced with this same dilemma. I like the idea of rather than good versus evil, from different points of view, both sides have merit, but for different characters its selfish, and for others its altruistic. In both camps, it's co-mingled. Shared purposes, with different motives. And in the two time lines, there could be mirrors and reversals.
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Like Sawyer said last night, regardless of the face he put on, he was too scared. MIB exploited that, and because of that exploitation Locke is dead and Flocke is loose.
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A 42 Year old grown man...wow !!
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So people are retarded for speculating what revelations on a TV show they like might be foreshadowing? On a message board for talking about a TV show? Which just aired a great episode? Well thank god you came along to call everybody childish names. Now we can stop being retarded and not talk about what's going to happen next. Will that be okay with you? Just sticking to the facts.
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It's all good. I apologize for my earlier statement (about you being little). ;)
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Wasn't he in EastEnders and Grange Hill?
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but what an awesome awesome episode.
love this show -
Need to differentiate a little between reality and fiction in your arguments.
Eko and his part in the story is unfortunately a broken link because of the actors choice to have no further involvement in the series. I don't think you can read too much into the wheres and whyfors of "Eko's" death because of that - same with Libby.
We'll never realy know what was planned for these characters so its pointless speculating. -
troll numbers aren't too bad, and a lot of great stuff being talked about.
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The Desperate Housewives pastiche opening to this episode. Which makes me wonder, maybe we should just natter among ourselves like this was Sex in the City. You know, since speculation about LOST is retarded. I can't believe someone broke Smokey's heart. What a BITCH. Kate is SO fit. LOLZ. I wonder what period of history Ben teaches. Weren't those leaves in the jungle such a lovely shade of green. Oh dear, that young child has fallen over and cut himself. Has anyone got a bandage?
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and eventually they will get bored and go back to watching Desperate Houswives. Watching Lost makes their brains hurt so they feel the uncontrollable need to bash it.
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so there are manifestations on this island that isn't cause by Smokie or Jacob.
Is anyone certain that Christian is Smokie ?
the kid is possibly Smokie when he was human, blood on his hands that may have played a part in in his imprisonment -
Was the Evil Dead pastiche as UnLocke zoomed about the woods.
Kept expecting Bruce Campbell to appear - particularly when it stopped outside Sawyers "cabin".
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very funny character, fish out of water, love his comments and facial expressions.
I hope he makes it off the island and becomes an old drunk in the corner of a bar that tells fantastic stories, that only the odd drunk guy believes.
Or he becomes a pirate and has lots of wenches!! -
But I think that was a real kid being chased through the jungle. That's why Sawyer could see him. And why Smokey was surprised. Now, earlier, the kid had blood on his arms. THAT was a vision. Of the same kid, to be sure. But not in corporeal form. That's why Richard couldn't see him. I don't think the purpose here was to say Sawyer is intuitive to island things that Richard isn't. I think it's to show that one time the kid was a vision, and the second time it really was a kid. Having a scene with Richard and Sawyer together, with Richard appealing to him, was I think to re-enforce the idea that they're in the same boat, and Richard is looking out for Sawyer. Though having said that, the tone was a little strange. Richard seemed much more freaked out than he was when we saw him not long earlier, despite having been set free. Had Richard spoken to the boy in the jungle, and they were trying to rescue Sawyer, who didn't come with? Richard is freaked out because of what has happened to Jacob, and seeing the child (not the vision) has made him realise how grave things are with Smokey having the upper hand?
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Ever the con man, Jacob may have been hoping that at some point that Smokie tries to recruit Sawyer and will eventually be conned by him at the last minute.
Think though this will be Sawyer's last con and it will cost him his life. -
Smokie is Cain, coming back of course to the Garden of Eden view.
The kid is Cain, blood on his hands after killing Abel, wandering Earth, but in this sense trapped on this Island. Is home then Heaven? -
Sawyer conning Flocke. Back to the beginning. Perfect.
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On a limb here, but I don't think it's Jack. I also don't think it's Christian. Christian is Claire's father, and Claire had Aaron.
I think 23-Shepard = Aaron, and i believe the kid in the jungle was indded Aaron. -
They erefernced the fact that Lockes dad would be going to his wedding last night - so I can assume from that, that Pops never pushed Locke out of a tall building.
Any idea why Locke is in a wheelchair then?
No doubt it will be answered when he has his op but it leads to interesting questions around the Losties destinies and how changeable they are? -
I don't think anyone else brought this up but wasn't Christian the one who told Locke he would have to die to get back to the Island?
He set up Locke up so he could take his place. -
I don't think anyone else brought this up but wasn't Christian the one who told Locke he would have to die to get back to the Island?
He set up Locke up so he could take his place. -
Could Christian be Adam? Plus that would be neat with Jack looking for his dad's corpse after the plane crash, and not knowing he found it in the caves... Christian's manifestations that way wouldn't be Smokey, but one generation older?
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I've watched the scene in slo-mo 3 times now. No Littleton, anywhere. There is a "Mittling", which is what I'm going to guess most of you saw for a moment and it looks a bit like Littleton. The only other names 100& discernible besides our candidates are Mittling, Grant, Domingo, and Goodspeed. Goodspeed is obviously more interesting because we know a few Goodspeeds. My guess is Horace, but it could be Ethan I suppose, or Horaces' wife, but I am thinking no women can be candidates. There is also a Vargas or Bargas or Vagrus or something like that, can't quite make it out
On a side not, I'm sorry for calling people names. But, lines like this, "Maybe MIB and Jacob, from an earlier time, are trapped in a loop that begins with the Black Rock." are my definition of empty speculation. Maybe this and maybe that. You can sit around doing that all day, making shit up. I'm interested in facts, and before this episode aired, this talkback was nothing but figuring out the facts. That is just figuring out a fun little twist in your own mind. It is a little retarded, I'm sorry to say. Didn't mean to offend so many people -
...first, good on Sawyer for immediately recognizing non-John as not Locke. But then a couple curious little echoes (not Eko). The first is Non-Locke "recruiting". This is largely what John was supposed to be doing back in season one, when the stench of The Stand clung thick about the island. Boone, Walt, Claire, Charlie, Locke was making overtures everywhere. There was even a nascent breaking of the survivors into beach and cave. That thread was dropped after the first season but now we appear to have returned to it, under much different circumstances. "Don't tell me what I can't do." I'm sure everyone caught Non-John shouting the exact words Locke had screamed over not getting to Non-Walkabout. But what are the implications? This would be awfully late in the game for the writers to use this bit as just a cheap jokey gimmick. So assuming there is some deeper connection where does it come from and in what direction does it work? Did a similarity in spirit simply make Locke a more acceptable form for Non-John? Is there some effect from wearing a person’s body (wouldn’t think so, not only because it’s one of the hoariest clichés in the speculative fiction box but also because MiB seemed to possess this attitude pre-Non-John incarnation. Is there assonance at a level above any of these characters? Don’t know and don’t feel like I have the information to determine this. I hope the shouting and the reflection of Locke’s season one activities aren’t just happenstance. And I do feel like we heard lies from both Richard and Non-John in last night’s episode.
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(loved, loved, loved the episode by the way, this is just the one really stupid moment) Ben is asking Illana who John Locke is, etc, why he looks the way he does, etc. He seems very interested. She then just gives the BS line of "He's trapped like in this form now" or whatever. And Ben doesn't ask WHY?!?! Are you fucking kidding me? That just sounds like a bullshit line to explain why Terry O'Quinn still gets to play this character and not the original MiB we saw on the baech. If you are going to make up a rule like that, and offer no explanation, that's just nonsense. They better explain why at some point. The more infuriation part is that Ben just nod his head "Oh..okay. Sure." Bullshit. Ben would go, and why is that? Really infuriating moment in an otherwise excellent, excellent hour.
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I think Jacob creates the list of possible replacements for his job, and Smokie has to judge them and keep up with who lives and dies. Its a crappy job and its all for Jacob's benefit. Smokie's upset bc he doesn't get anything good out of it.
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Feb 17, 2010 9:40:11 AM CST
Probably already mentioned- Alt Locke's cube photo: Him w/Daddy!
by tomonicker
And he wore a rasberry burea, okay it wasn't rasberry... Redhanded kid, vision of what? Sort of makes me think of Cain and Able. I don't know why.
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It wasn't Christian who told Locke that. It was Richard...and he was told to do it by Fake Locke, who we already know is Smoky. So that plot point doesn't influence the Christian/MIB possibilities.
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Ox Bow Lake.
The Flash sideways are the events after the plane landed and always have been.
The Ox Bow Lake piece is all the events related to the Island. Its as if these folk have all been pulled out of time to fight for one side or the other, and dead or alive they'll all be delivered at the other end into continuing their lives after the Island piece has been resolved.
Google Ox Bow Lake to get a visual interpreation. -
Just bc Flocke didn't point it out doesn't mean its not there.
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You may be right. But was Locke also a factor in returning the O6 to the island? So there may have been other parties interested in him spinning the frozen donkey wheel. We still need to know more about what that did, IMHO. Jack found out that Locke saw his father, didn't he, feeding into the substitution as it were of Locke for his father in the coffin on the plane. Hopefully answers next week, as it should be Jack mirroring the White Rabbit episode from season one, so his dad's funeral? So was it Christian who appeared to Locke, or was that necessary to influence Jack, so it was actually Smokey? I'm not sure. I think Christian might have ended up at the temple after the crash, but maybe he got claimed, maybe not. Maybe Smokey used his image too to influence Claire? I'm not sure we're just seeing one entity with Christian. Might be Christian, and somebody posing as Christian. He seems to be important, whoever he is.
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And crayfish away.. Multiple logins and all. Oli Oli Loli Hague.
Sweet Jesus and Fries. Why. Oh why do Europeans (UK excluded) need multiple logins.
As if the Continentals haven't boned this world enough.
Good God. Well, thanks Europe, for the helping hand when it doesn't matter. But, hey, that's what you are best at.
Rosasaks is a girls name. really. If you had read the book you'd know.
And now we know where the trolls come from.... -
Not bc of some new knowledge, or bc he talked to the kid. He was freaked bc he was alone in the jungle and Flocke could be ANYWHERE. That was fear in his eyes. He didn't show the same level of fear when he was with Flocke bc he'd already been captured and Flocke said he "just wanted to talk". But once he ran away, who knows what Smokie would do to him? Hence his fear and apprehension.
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awesome in its potential. What if Eko ain't dead, or returns again.
Angry. With Jesus Stick. Say. Who has the Jesus stick on the Island now? Locke had it last right. And then? -
Totally with ya on the Sawyer tip. My prediction...it happens right after he goes beyond the call of duty to....wait for it...
Save JACK'S life! -
and her name is crossed out, and her number is 313.
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Point to Stephen Colbert.
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us Aussies call them billabongs instead.
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If you've read The Authority comic arc Earth Inferno, there is a bit about giving this terrible bastard, essentially the power of God, knowing that eventually he would be overcome by the past knowledge of everyone that had come before him. It's sounds like you might be touching on a similar theme that would keep in line with the series, while also explaining Lockes importance.
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Don't know how I missed it, but it is there. Kinda fucks with my idea about the wall. Oh well, I admit my mistake. I just saw Mittling so clearly and figured...well, doesn't matter what I figured. I was wrong. In this case, I'm the retard.
But if I wanted to make up something outlandish with no evidence behind it, I'd say, "Maybe it isn't even for Claire. Maybe its much older, and it was written about her mother or grandfather. Maybe, man." -
Feb 17, 2010 10:00:27 AM CST
Cheif I like it - saving Kate again would be much less interesti
by miyamoto_musashi
Sawyer has been compared to Han Solo before, it could be like the end of the A New Hope when Han comes from nowhere to shoot Vader and give Luke his chance to take out the Death Star, but in this case "Han/Sawyer" puts himself in the way and sacrifices himself
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absolutely brilliant book, though wish I didn't see the mini series
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Some talkbackers above made an interesting theory that MIB was using Widmore, but remember in season 4 when Ben summoned the smoke monster to kill Widmore's men?
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I thought about this in season 1 too. Couldn't Locke get his boss fired for making fun of a cripple, not just get Hurley's sympathy and get offered a better job?
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this story is getting real familiar.. you think "home" for MiB is heaven? if so, i've seen this movie before and Alanis is God..
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Again, didn't see it, but its interesting, because it says his name, just like Littleton, is crossed off. Which is weird, because Miles isn't dead for sure. We know 100% Miles is not dead, and yet hes crossed off. Any thoughts on this? You can be crossed off without dying.
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Interesting piece going on with Locke in the Flash forwards/sideways -
There is something there fighting against his loser streak - e.g. he gets fired then immediately hired by Hurley.
Its like something is putting right the bad things that may happen to him - we'll see. -
It's getting annoying how fast they are able to walk to places that are suppose to be far away. Ben told Alex and rousseau that the temple was a 1.5 days walk from the barracks. Sawyer left the temple for the barracks did not take that long. Last night Sun and co. walked from the statue with a corpse mind you to the cemetary of the original beach camp and the sun was still out and they had time to bury him. Rose working for Hurley? I'm cool with that it's fate/destiny. Her being on the same flight as her boss and living in L.A. now instead of the Bronx bit of a stretch. I get that it's a parallel universe so they can get away with it but still.
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If so, I'm even more sorry than I was before. I didn't really care about offending anyone. To be honest, some people in here are being retarded. But to have derailed the talkback into politics and discussions of fucking sarah palin....thats a sin on my part. Something even Jacob wouldn't forgive. Stupid Palin's name has no business in a LOST talkback. Sci-Fi only please and thank you. Again, sorry if I started this. Shame on me
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Retard is not a vulgar word. It is a legit word in our vocabulary. I hate that we are going back to being politcally correct again. If you don't like the word then don't use it,but stop trying to dance around it by saying the "R" word. There I feel better now.
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I don't know who he is, and don't tell me either please
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"Inside joke."I fucking laughed my ass off! lol
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Cain, the restless wanderer, if.. as you feature is the blond kid..
Well, it flies in the face of a few thousand years of rabbinical and church orthodoxy. As Cain was, ya know, the dark one...dark as darkness and all.
Black is White. Right on. Yeah, well screw the Orthodoxy. And the Church too.
Funny thing is. Cain could not be killed by man. He had the mark ya know. Juliet? And speaking of Juliet..do you remember when I drunkenly mentioned James, Juliet, and Kate coming ashore in the boat? Season 5 finale? ..that if you look in the northwest corner of the screen you see a great big rainbow? Well, the word in re Rainbow also indicates a flood. simplified that a bit. I'm too drunk too taste the Kosher Hot Dog... wait a sec. -
Verb, 1489 1. trans. To keep back, delay, hinder, impede (a person or thing in respect of progress, movement, action, or accomplishment.) 2. To delay the progress or accomplishment, to impede the course, of (an action, movement etc.) 1572 b) to defer, put off (rare)1735 3. intr. To be delayed; to come, appear or happen later; to undergo retardation 1646 eg. The Black Rock was extremely retarded by the winds (1732); eg. The LOST talk back was extremely retarded by Crowe3711's retarded grasp of nuance and fact because he can't infer forward direction from storytelling or even use simple everyday words correctly. (2010)
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Hil-larious.
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Care to explain why it's so funny that I'm calling the show boring. After all the hype about lost, I decided to watch. It was piss poor. Very boring. Others see this too.
There is a big backlash against LOST because well, the show obviously is using the BSG approach of "wtf cliffhanger moments" that lead nowhere.
Now I like BSG because despite it's cliffhanger unresolved bullshit, there was some good nuggets in there to be had, as well as some stellar acting, directing, and effects.
Also, as a genre fan, I liked the spaceships in BSG. Maybe it's because I hate that blonde chick from Terminator TV series, and her shit accent, but I found lost and the actors within to be an exercise in shit acting, shit story, and well just balls to the wall shit.
People complain about BSG filler, yet lost is 100% filler, and the fact that Jar Jar Jewish Dicknose masterminded the series only adds to my dismay of this futile POS.
SO Fain, if you want to have a discussion, please explain to me the merits of lost, and how it's a good show. -
Just a thought. Im wondering if there will be any significance to the fact that in one reality Aaron will be raised by Claire, while in the other Kate raised him. Something to consider about the kid who supposedly would become the Anti-Christ without Claires influence.
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Take your anti-Semitic bullshit someplace else asshole. Ban this fuck AICN.
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I'm the one who thinks..no, knows you to be...ah, what's the point.
You have typed nothing that is worth anything. It is..kind of Euro. Oooooh. Crash. Greeece! Buh-bye Euro.
At least my drunken crazy occasionally barfs up a theory that is relevant and reviled. Well..there ya go. -
and itll go away. Lets make it happen. Fain88, don't take the bait.
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I'm mainly referring to the Jacob/MiB/Numbers/Candidate stuff. If we'd known what the stakes were it would have made the last two seasons a lot more interesting. The producers didn't have enough faith in their own story. Now it feels like the series is ending just as it is getting started.
Other than that major misgiving, it was a good episode, a lot better than last week's.
As to the debate on various forums as to whether the boy was Jacob or Aaron, maybe it was both. If it's only one I'm pretty sure it was Jacob but I don't rule out that Jacob = Aaron somehow.
As to which Kwon is a candidate, most likely Sun. They need to have at least one female candidate and she's the only possibility. -
"She nodded. Then she handed the sack of dirty linens to Joe and stared down the hall. Joe stood beside the couch for a moment, looking at Sammy with a perplexed expression, as if trying to work his way backward, one at a time, through the steps of the clever feat of SUBSTITUTION that Sammy had just pulled off."
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Good one, smart guy. Read any one of your posts and explain what nuance is contained therein. Your theories are baseless nonsense at this point. Get over yourself. Some of you are being retarded.
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FACT OFF
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That's your most clever reply ever. I'm starting to warm up to you, sweetie.
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I'm overseas, can't watch "Lost", can't get HULU and don't have an internet connection that allows me to download torrents. Thanks to all the thoughtful people having interesting discussions on one of my favorite shows of all time, keeping me somewhat in the loop until I can see the episodes for myself.That does include you MacPoodles. Just wish you would dial down the pretentiousness.
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I dig your style, buddy.
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Is not a sweetie...he is a 42 year old grown man.
Yes I know many of us will have kids with more maturity and perspective than he's got, but what can you do ? -
that Hurley in the flash-sideways is the luckiest guy in the world and how Locke was going to scratch up his Hummer with his chair lift and it shorted out again?? I know it means nothing..
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...this is my one and only post on this as I think (hope) it's a blind alley. But... Cain originally drew God's displeasure because he sacrificed the fruit of his fields (rather literally) to God instead of something with a little meat on it. Old Testament God was certainly not a vegetarian. Anyway, after God expressed His dissatisfaction with Cain, equating not killing a lamb with sin, Cain decided to whack his brother. After that he was supposed to have to wander Kung-Fu style across the world, with nothing he touched growing and no one allowed to kill him to end his suffering (and why was Cain so afraid of being killed when he'd apparently invented the sin and should therefore have been the unchallenged master at the event) but the next thing we hear of Cain he's building a CITY and naming it after his son Enoch. Which sounds like settling down. But in short it seems, from a modern perspective, that God sort of set up Cain to do the deed. Cain was a farmer, Abel a herdsman. Cain gave of his bounty, Abel gave of his. God liked lambchops better than bread, for which I will certainly not criticize Him, but disfavoring Cain for offering the bounty of his labors in the same manner as had his brother seems questionable. Cain did murder, and the situation was no more Abel's fault than Cain's, so it was a murder that rose from jealousy of God's approval. But in this situation God did play the role of the bad daddy figure. Not that it mattered too much, because like I said, a verse later and he's getting to build a city and having a kid, but it always seemed to me like Cain got a bum deal. It wouldn't surprise me if someone wanted to examine the ethics of that bit of Genesis. There are some interesting questions there. God clearly preferred a sacrifice that involved blood and killing (though of a "lesser" life form). And yet God condemned Cain for the killing of his brother (and unless my memory is failing even mentioned Abel's blood crying out to him). If Non-John is Cain and Jacob is Abel (metaphorically, because I cannot imagine the show portraying this literally) then it would make sense of the contradictory currents of "good" Jacob and his henchmen causing so much death and grief while "bad" Non-John cared only about killing the favored Jacob. But it breaks down when Temple Smokey kills the bodyguards, at least a bit. Even after posting through it, though, I don't want this to be part of the answer so I'm not going to think about it anymore.
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Not sure if this has been mentioned yet...But when Smokey first sees him, the kid's arms are covered in blood.What's the significance of I wonder?I screen-grabbed that shit for you guys here:http://tinyurl.com/ydkzbv7
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...can you, Angus? Don't you realize that by hitting "Post talkback", you aren't actually ignoring someone. Or did that stroke I predicted take effect?
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What's with this pompous illuminati who shout down anybody who just wants to talk about a TV show? Nobody's impressed by the gobbledegook or group think. You all pretend to be better than the trolls but at least the trolls are transparent. You lot make your Oscar Wilde bullshit allusions to Lost then start groping each other in self-congratulation. You know who you are.
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You will, Oscar. You will.
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pretty much, even if i read his posts aloud they make no sense, and end up sounding like they're written by a drunken effeminite southern gent or some crazy shit like that
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the girl from the BBQ, how could he know? How could he know.
And mr. fain, peanut butter, and the champion of vinyl, excellent work, you all receive points.
I concur, I concur.
But why would God not know what Eve was up to in that garden? Hmmmm??? Speaks alot, doesn't it? I'm drunk as a sailor but even I can see the writing on the wall. Right Bilbo??? Recall what happened 7 years ago in my post here: tinyurl.com/timetravel
Ώ
Sawyer saw those names because the names were those that were written, am I right? All these bubs/bubbettes comin into the greek council tryin to exploit our common decency by any means necessary, tres cute.
I posted my masters thesis in the other thread, I hope Mr. Lindelof gives me an A+ for effort.
The virgin Mary, quite contrary. Charlie, wouldn't have been in there.
Oh but they didn't see it. You never do. If Locke was born under the moon phase alpha, he would indeed have a heart like a wheel. Has Locke ever ridden a donkey?? Vikki from mars eatin her porridge like a champ, karma's a bitch. Did Oliver Hague refry the beans? not likely, not likely. But if the war over the recycled souls of Walt is indeed coming, then is not the battlefield that of the Constants? and everyone says the triangle does NOT matter! Yeshua made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Ben. So then that battle is over love, for the island.
You're beggin' me to go, you're makin' me stay
Why do you hurt me so bad?
It would help me to know
Do I stand in your way, or am I the best thing you've had?
Believe me, believe me, I can't tell you why
But I'm trapped by your love, and I'm chained to your side
We are young, heartache to heartache we stand
NO PROMISES, NO DEMANDS
Love Is A Battlefield
We are strong, no one can tell us we're wrong
Searchin' our hearts for so long, both of us knowing
Love Is A Battlefield
We're losing control
Will you turn me away or touch me deep inside?
And before this gets old, will it still feel the same?
There's no way this will die
But if we get much closer, I could lose control
And if your heart surrenders, you'll need me to hold
We are strong, no one can tell us we're wrong
Searchin' our hearts for so long, both of us knowing
Love Is A Battlefield Ώ Ώ Ώ -
Careful with the troll speak luvvy.
Another thing that MacFaux and his ilk are good at is to label anyone who doesn't agree with their world view of Lost, no matter that half the time their posts are more sensible than MacFaux's and Co, as Trolls.
If yoy aren't in the Rizzo,Jay , MacFaux Troika you are a troll.
And these are grown men !!! -
Neither is liking JJ? And South Park can make jew jokes and it's funny, but humans can't? Wow, you sure showed everyone who's boss? LOL.
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Evangeline Lilly said she plans to quit acting after lost. The Hurt Locker, which she is in, is nominated, and hopefully favored to actually win Best Picture If she does, her IMDB page will read as a bunch of extra parts where her character didn't even have a name, to starring in a (possible) Best Picture winner and and then closing things out with the finale episodes of what will (probably) go down as one of the greatest and most complete television experiences of all-time. And then she drops the mic and walks away? That's hilarious to me. She'll be a legend on paper. Until people actually watch, and see Kate was pretty stupid and shes in the hurt locker for all of 5 minutes. But still, her resume will look legendary if she walks away.
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Hot damn. The MaxFaux was spot on! I laughed the whole time. Well played, good sir.
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I thought that from early on. If you read the wikipedia article on them alot seems to fit. One part I liked is the Abel is eventually buried in the cave of treasures...hmmm....cave. Also Abel becaomes the judge of souls and Cain is expelled to be a restless wanderer of earth in the land of Nod...which is hebrew for the wandering land....sounds like the island to me....also, Cain and Abel were the sons of Adam and Eve.
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Hi-larious. Thanks for the laugh. But you forgot to use more paragraph breaks, snorts, giggles and homoerotic come-ons. Then spill your beer on the keyboard.
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God didn't like Cain's "sacrifice" because it wasn't one. Cain's heart was in the wrong place, and it cost him nothing to offer up fruit. The animal blood sacrifice was more of a loss for Cain and he didn't want to do it. Cain killed Abel because he was jealous of God's favor over Abel instead of Cain. Cain was a bad seed from the gitgo.
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but you
missed the,
ever present page....
saw a donkey in the moon and the ocean wa gold man.
... breaks. -
Or for him, inadvertently or not. Remember when Bram kidnapped Miles in his van. He told Miles that working for Widmore was a mistake, that he was on the wrong side. He said they (Brama and his Jacob followers) were on the winning side.
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Did he say they were on the 'winning' side or the 'right' (righteous) side? Seems it would be a big distinction.
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are still a hugeee ??? as far as i can tell, theyve knocked off bram and that gang other than illena, frank, sun etc... still not sure how that whole thing connects.
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...you can always just ignore those things which you find distasteful, engage with anyone where and when it suits your tastes, and poke gentle fun when an opportunity makes you smile. Bilboe...Love is a Battlefield. Damn, no one here did anything to deserve that. Talkback version of mustard gas. I'm a little in awe of you, a little more afraid. You could take out the entire site now with just a few lines from Warrior by Scandal.
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And Jew jokes aren't allowed in YOUR tb, but it's ok for you to make them, watch them on your shows, and generally have them around. Where are the cries to remove Cartman from the Air??
And JJ is Jewish, and DOES have a dicknose. Isn't that an observation? I mean, the man has a dicknose, what can you do? He goes to temple, what can you do? I didn't say to throw him a a fucking Jew oven or something.
So, TB'ers, please explain the following
Why is LOST a good show?
Why can't I not like it? I thought I gave good reasons.
Why can't I make jokes that popular TV shows do, especially considering this is the "wild west of the internet" as some say, this is as you know a relatively uncensored forum. I'm we have tb'ers like Sodomy Joe SHitpants.
Perhaps I shuldn't have given you the ammo (now you can counter argue by saying "BAN TEH BIGGOT") but the fact remains this is a forum in which to express my opinions. Easily obtainable proxy server software can help one attain different aliases here anyways, so banning is rather pointless given the low security employed by AICN.
So, can you respond to this (anyone) and give me valid answers??
Probably not losers!!!!
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You continue to be too thoughtful and intelligent for AICN. Carry on.
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Again with the perspective - sorry.
Some folk will view Lost as one of the greatest and most complete television experiences of all time but a lot won't.
Case in point the recent SFX reader awards:
Best TV Show : Lost not in the Top 10.
Best TV Episode : Lost (He's our you) is at No 6.
Best Actor - Zilch
Best Dialogue - At No 4 Sawyer "Time Travel's a bitch!"
Best Actress- Zilch
Evangeline comes 6 in sexiest female.
All subjective and these are Sci-Fi/Fantasy awards which Losts ambiguity could cause it problems in, but puts things in perspective -
At that military camp or whatever it was in season five, with the bandages, wasn't Jacob asking Ilyana to come and help protect him, or something? Now we've seen a hint Jacob might be running around the island in child form, is that why he needs protecting? He anticipated what would happen at the statue, and Ilyana is his insurance policy to get back the upper hand? How, remains to be seen. But could she be a contemporary of some of the older generation of characters from the island's history?
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I'm pretty sure he said "winning" side. But whether that's the right side or the wrong side, it seems to imply that Widmore isn't on Jacob's side.
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I wasn't aware that the term "Jewish Dicknose" was considered a joke. I inadvertantly mistook that for a racist stereotype. My bad.
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Not to mention when those lists came out...it wasn't over. You couldn't possibly judge lost in that way until it ends. The end will inform whether its been a waste. It can still be enjoyable if the end sucks, but if the end is epic, it will become one of those shows. Not to mention how incredibly popular it is for such a weird genre show with time travel and shit. Compared to battlestar galactica, or mad men, or basically anything. Not too many shows that aren't about doctors or lawyers or "reality" pull the kind of numbers lost does. And even more people are watching the dvds and catching up each week. Not to mention a little fact about your perspective: who gives a fuck about those lists? i don't know the actual people who made them. I don't care what they think, personally.
On the other hand, as I said, on paper, starring in LOST to the end and being in a best picture winner all in the same year and then walking away...it will look epic. -
You're absolutely welcome to not like LOST. But you don't need to sit in here and tell us repeatedly why you don't like it, or challenge us to prove its likeable. Get a life, in other words. Its like a fat person at a weight watchers seminar interrrupting andf yelling at everyone to prove to you why you can't be fat... its a waste of time, out of place, and really inappropriate
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...yeah, but you're talking interpretation, not the actual story as it appears in the Bible. And yeah, I'd want to interpret it so as to get away form the actual story, too. But in the Bible there is nothing about Cain's gift not costing him anything. He was a farmer and gave of his produce. Able was a shepard and gave from his. Now I've even gone and looked up the verse: "2: And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3: And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4: And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell." That's the old school King James version right there. You know, the good stuff.
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He told Miles he was on the wrong side and said he (Bram) was on the team that was "gonna win."
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He obviously is very desperate for attention. Look at how he asks "So not liking lost isn't ok?" and NO ONE RESPONDS. So what does he do? He asks it AGAIN and this time loads it up with more insults, desperately hoping and wishing someone- ANYONE- will pay him the attention he craves. Very obvious that the best course of action here is to ignore him entirely. I hope you guys will agree and don't do any feeding.
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That would obviously make him a Shepherd, if we're talking about LOST that is.
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...had a legitimate beef.
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And watch how CRAZY he goes.
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what happen to sonic fense security perimter to keep smokey out?...no one bothered to switch it on...surely would be more safe than temple...love the show but drives me crazy!
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That happened in Season 4, so its been off for 3 years.
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ignoring people who disagree with you is apparently just an "jedi council" thing..
i hate i had to frame it that way i think i just puked in my mouth a little -
I still watch Lost even though I have some big problems with it, but on balance I like it. (I liked BSG more !!)
With Lost there is a lot of wandering about and sometimes not a huge amount of progression. Thats true. Also the writers got themselves into the Shyamalan trap of thinking there has to be a WTF moment- that it is then hard to dig themselves out of.
So whats to like - well there are some nifty characters in there such as Sawyer, Hurley, Miles and Desmond and its been interesting to see how some chacters who may only have been potential bit part players like Ben have grown hugely in importance.
The characters do have a progressive devleopment to them although with some e.g. Sayid ( torturer, remorseful torturer, torturer again, killer) this can be confusing. Much as it is a surprise considering the way the show is played out for its mysteries and everybody is just a little too circumspect, you do actually come to care for a lot of the characters. One of the huge pluses is the ambiguity over who is good or bad. The main hero Jack is acknowledged by many folk to be a prick - but he is still the main hero - like in real life.
I criticised the WTF moments but, when they are carefully crafted parts of the story line that suddenly shift your whole perspective they are great.(Like Fight Club great or "A Kiss before Dying")
And then there is the central mystery to what is going on that hopefully we'll see resolved at the end.
Infuriating at times but always watchable - even the episodes hard core fans criticise- its well worth keeping up to speed with -a way above average TV experience. -
I'm ignoring someone who is spewing racist hate speech to entertain himself and to get a rise out of others. Its painfully obvious that's what he's doing.
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...good to see you!
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They are showing the Jacob scenes again for the benefit of anyone that missed them the first time...if they didn't think new people would start watching they wouldn't have had that recap episode before the premiere. Not only diehards watch lost...
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this episode was fantastic because I find the temple stuff somewhat cheesy. Brian K Vaughn is sorely missed there.
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Red Ned, you Swashbuckler you. Always. And if you are secretly MacFaux under another screen name, please don't ever tell me. I'll be devastated.
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I think those memory joggers serve another purpose too - they make you go hang on a minute, Jacob visited Kate in that convenience store when she was a child. So why hasn't she got a number on the cave roof? What does Kate do?
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Your cognitive reverie coupled with your knowledge of holy text. or great literature. or whatever. Well, it is most fantastic.
~Sidebar~ Please note as I type this reply I am watching 'Thunderball', specifically when Connery goes wet, fights underwater..Film 4 Theme 007. pure happenstance.~
"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."
You typed..."the situation was no more Abel's fault than Cain's" No. Nope.
There was fault. Cain (the Farmer) gave the common. Abel (the Shepherd, and in those times..the Hunter) gave the best. God said ...'pfffft' to Cain and 'Right on' to Able. And if.. even if, that were so...justification for Murder? No. Nope.
Cain, slighted, infuriated, 'whacked' Able.
There are those who say it was all really about a woman. And. Ain't that how it usually goes.
In the story, God had no preference of offering. Only the effort given.
Look, God did not play the bad Daddy. Cain was told what he offered was mediocre. He saw his brother Able's offering accepted better and "Cain was very wroth". The whole 'Dark' thing was over layed latter. Thanks, again Europe. Thumbs up!
The End.
"I am as Pious as I am Profane...how will the scale balance?"
Crap. Non-John just threw my white rock in the Ocean. Goddammit. Oh Shit..Bond just spear-gun-ed one of Largo's fellas. right on.
Hey, man, ya remember when Desmond told Widmore..."I had to take care of my brothers"
Anyway, if I totally missed your point, sorry, I mostly drunk now. right on. -
not a question more a statement. Ben was one of the best things about LOST from season 2 til 5. But since last ep of 5 and all so far of season 6...is character is terrible. i really hope they are able to bring him back...what happen to the ben who new everything and could manipulate everyone...i know stuf has happened to make him this way...but he needs his mojo back fast! but i fear the writers have effectively shelfed this charater for good...
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My one inconsistency is this: Sawyer knows he's gone back in time, traveled through different times, and knows the island moved, yet somehow he's convinced the island isn't special?? It has to be a Sawyer con of Flocke.
Also, an explanation for why the people who would have still been on the island when the bomb went off (Ben, Ethan…): the bomb sent a shockwave through time, through the energy that was being built up, and sank it before most of those people ever showed up. For all we know, Ben had a good relationship with his dad, his mom’s not dead, and neither are Ethan’s parents (though if that were true, his mom (Amy) never would have left the guy who was killed by the others (Paul) for Horace), so we’ll see, maybe that stuff is never even addressed.
I do have to agree that this episode showed us a little bit - maybe one big thing – and is more just set up for the following weeks. I now concede and am OK with that fact: that the first few episodes are just set up. Locke’s side-story just happened to be more interesting than Kate's, and it was also nice seeing Helen again, and nice seeing them get together. Though him ripping up Jack’s card was ultimately the dissipation of a cock-tease that went nowhere (though I guess still could, theoretically).
But it is still a little confusing… if Locke and his dad are close enough for him to be at the wedding, how did he break his back? (which so far after reading the whole talk back, Chief Brody was the first person to bring this up). I also agree with ReportAbuse, who brought up that it was illogical for Locke to have a tan, try to go to the conference, and not make it.
It seems that Sawyer will be the new Jacob. As goofy as it would be for Jack to be the “Sheppard,” based on his name alone, it could happen, but Sawyer seems to be the guy to me. “Maybe I’m just supposed to be alone” or whatever he said last week. Speaking of which, so Kate just ditched him?
Why isn’t anyone bringing up the fact that Ilana somehow magically knows that the Flocke can’t escape from Locke’s body?? (Actually, ToughGuyRizzo just did, damn this is a long tb to get through). (Crow3711 brought it up now too).
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Feb 17, 2010 12:43:36 PM CST
absolutely hilarious how Macfaux completely missed my post
by billboefett
I'm pulling a McDonalds over here... because I'm lovin it
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Feb 17, 2010 12:50:47 PM CST
@Macfaux @@Red Ned Lynch - Cain & Abel
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
It was not the offering, it was the intent. Abel made his offering from the heart, whilst(had to get that in) Cain made his by by duty. God saw through Cain's intent and called him on it, them Cain went batshit and killed his brother.
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and you need to get yourself to AA, pronto
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Good to see you back. Comic gold, sir.
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I hope a rancid, infected, warthog dick get's rammed up your ass, you molested piece of shit.
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just remember: Canton Rainier
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...isn't an act, I think I know why. His MySpace page http://www.myspace.com/macfaux lists his age as 42 and his income at "less than $30,000". Snort.Hmp.Snicker.Surely, Shirley Hemphill, that MUST be at typo. That's just too sad.Hey, hey, hey. What's Happening, MacAngus?Hey,this IS fun! No wonder he does it.
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I mean I don't care. Good for you and all. But why do you stalk me, baby. I'm just curious.
I mean I know you steal my posts and plagiarize my theories. Cause ya have none of your own...and ya need to embiggen yourself with my posts and that's ok...shhhh. it is ok.
But are you Gay? Are you lookin for hook up or what?
Just tell me sweetie..as i thought we were friends. Obviously you want... need more..I don't know if I can go there. But, again, if you love me so..we'll see.
Ooooh. I get it...you are one of those. ok. hmmpf *snort* ...never would have guessed. -
and imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.... so take it as a secret love note from yours truly. If I had mocked ANYONE else, you would not stop posting me your praises
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...yeah, I've sat in plenty of churches myself over the years and heard that (and various other versions) myself. Now all you have to do is find a scriptural basis for what you're saying. I'll check back in and will be very willing to admit you've proven me wrong. But I don't think you will, because here is the rest of that story, as it appears in the actual Bible, and it makes things even more clear: 6: And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7: If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. 8: And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him." So you see, though some faiths may tell you Cain only gave straw or the leavings from his fields and others tell you he did it without love and others tell you he gave nothing that mattered to him...The Bible doesn't. And like I said, especially given what God told Cain after he'd rejected him, I'd want to figure out some sort of explanatory backstory to get away from the Text, too. Well, at least I would if I was selling a specific religious product.
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Wow homie. Not cool.
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Feb 17, 2010 1:09:06 PM CST
McGoo, I don't want to talk about politics here, but the fact
by coughlins laws
that you don't know that a large majority of Rush Limbaugh's show is satire and mocking of those on the Left and making fun of media coverage says more about your ignorance/stupidity than anything else. Regardless of what you think about his politics (and I realize that 99% of the people on this site think he's the anti-christ), there is over 20 years of proof that he constantly does satire in lampooning the left. You might think he's wrong about everything and you might not think he's funny at all, but to deny that's what he does shows you to be even more dense than I already thought you were. If you're really going to have such vitriol and disdain saved up for one person, you really should try to understand why you hate what these objects of your scorn and the reason they say and do the things they do. Not just cherry-pick a 5 second quote from a 3 hour show with ZERO context...
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Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.
1 John 3:12
Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous.
Jude 1:11
Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion.
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Feb 17, 2010 1:15:50 PM CST
As far as last night's episode, it does kind of allude to that
by coughlins laws
Locke actually has a good enough relationship in this timeline that his father would be welcome to the wedding. So, that begs the question, how did John Lock become paralyzed in this timeline? It couldn't have been from his father throwing him out a window. Any theories?
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You've got to be fucking kidding.
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Right on!
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Feb 17, 2010 1:20:37 PM CST
I have a theory about the Alternate realities.
by keepfuckingthatchicken
I am gonna post this every week in the Lost talkbacks so I can prove I am right in May. What if Desmond, Charlie, Hurley, Sawyer, Jack, Kate etc. being in Los Angeles WASN'T an alternate reality and WASN'T happening as the same time as the castaways being on the island. WHAT IF that the castaways being back in LA is technically Season 7? Hear me out. Season 4 was a Flash Forward season. One part was on the island, but future events took place off of the island.
What if the same was taking place in season 6? I believe they are doing the Flash Forward method again. There was only ONE result from the explosion and that is them being still on the island. I think by the end of season 6, there will be an time changing EVENT that will cause the castaways' to jump back onto the Oceanic 815 where Jack is looking out of the plane, Kate back on handcuffs, Hurley being lucky, etc etc. What season 6 is the finale of the island as well as "season 7"/the epilogue of them being home FINALLY with no recollection of the events from the island. It would explain why they look weird and funny at each other when they see each other again in LA. Whatever event makes them jump back into the past and on the plane does a MIB memory wipe of the island to everyone who makes it back on the plane without it crashing. At the end of season 6, I think the event will cause the island to be underwater hidden for good and we will see how the castaways got back on the plane without anything bad happening to them (At least to Rose (even though she has cancer still) , Bernard, Charlie, Desmond, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Boone, Locke (who is looking like he will be saved by Jack in "Season 7", Hurley, Jin, Sun and Claire). It is like getting the best of both worlds for a finale. Haven't you all noticed that nothing bad is happening to people in the "Faux Alternate Reality"? There is NOTHING within these first 4 episodes that says they will connect the 2 storylines together, which shows that the scenes off the island has great potential to be the actual ending to all of the characters. Them on the island now and the castaways not being on the island AT ALL because of the Event that will take place at the end of season 6 to cause them to be back on the plane. Season 5's attempt to use the bomb to get back on the plane FAILED but someone will come up with another plan (Maybe now "Evil" Locke/Man in Black's plan to escape) and it will work finally at the end of Season 6 on the island. -
I don't know where to start. The fact that your first post was huge and inflammatory in almost every way and then you casually follow it up with a request for theories. Or that you're honestly defending the nuance of Rush Limbaugh.
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to hide the insane rhetoric he spews. But the main point about all this is how hypocritical Sarah Palin is: on the one hand being "offended" by Family Guy, and not Rush. Both are satire. I don't understand how she didn't think she'd be called out on this. If she's going to excuse Rush and not Rahm, she has to excuse Family Guy too.
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You win. That screen name made me chuckle.
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...but not one of these later commentaries on the story of Cain and Abel address my point. Why was the sacrifice Abel offered God better than the one Cain did? The verse from John concerns only the murder, not the important matter (in this context) of why Cain's offering was rejected. And the passage from Jude is part of a roll call of Biblical villains. It in no way comments on or illuminates the story of Cain and Abel. It only pronounces him a villain.
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powerful liberals can get in trouble and the story is swept away after one day. He want the stories to stay alive. I feel sorry for you if you don't understand it...
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WHY does it say Abel's sacrifice was better and he was counted as righteous, whereas Cain was not? And WHY would he be pronounced a villain? and WHY were his actions evil, and WHY did he belong to the evil one? You don't seem interested in actually THINKING about the meaning the verses are delineating.
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I'm not saying that there aren't countless others that do the same thing, but Rush only and always says what he knows his audience wants to hear. Not what he believes. Which makes him a piece of shit. If he were honest he would've been talking about how awesome vicodin makes you feel. But, he didn't cuz he knew it would hurt him(ironic?). Either way, he may be smart, but he's a pandering, overinflated, douche-bag.
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Thats where I was going to with my Ox Bow Lake Theory - these aren't flash sideways they are flash even further forwards past all the Island shenanigans and I too think that everybody ( dead and alive) will end up on Oceanic just past the crash point and thats what we are seeing now.
Of course the one fault with that theory is that it looks as though Ben and Locke will be friends in the further future which really fucks with my instinct for justice. -
I didn't know making a jew joke was so controversial, so, I'm sorry. I thought JJ was hated around here anyways... but I guess the jew thing was too much for some people. Sooo many shows, that AICN tb'ers like usually, have tons more jew jokes on the same level or higher. But you guys swooped in to save JJ. Good for you. It's not like I called for the extermination of the chosen people or something. AGain, I feel it's no more offense than what is allowed on cable TV. And this is AICN, not a fucking yahoo message board or something. I have a warped, immature sense of humor, sometimes it's funny to people I know, sometimes it's offensive. Hwoever, I never directly attacked anyone on this board directly, aside from calling you guy's losers, playfully so, but I didn't sya "fuck you vader you asshole motherfucker go fuck your mouth with a cactus you asspisser". Jesus guys, you act like I'm the worst troll ever.
Thanks to 2leg for actually answering my question, saying why he likes LOST. I just wanted to know why people like it. And yes, I was very angry after watching one episdoe, because I had to read all this bullshit and watch videos and study wikis just to get caught up on the series, only to watch an actual episode and realize how boring it was to me.
2lg actually formed an opinion and argument, and I respect the fact that he actually responded to what I was saying.
As for Vader, I have no idea why you have such a hate for me after sharing other tb's with me before. I don't think I have ever really directly spoken to you before, but I;m sorry your so angry.
And as far as all the Psychoanalyst fuckery, aren't all tb's in some way looking for "attention"? Why do you post your tb's if not to have others read and respond? You guys really need to re-evaluate how you respond to "trolls".
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Im gunna have to agree with you. Too many people reinterpret the bible to make it more comfortable for them accept.
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Clearly God was making it up as he went along then, and Cain and Abel was just filler. It's retarded to speculate what the Bible means. We don't have the facts. We'll get them in The Last Testament, after the second coming. God's been making it up as he goes along for two thousand years, so it's bound to have even more filler, which is why he's gone all J D Salinger on us and is too scared to publish. In the LOST finale, Jacob is revealed to be Jesus reincarnated as Holden Caulfield having a flash back looking at an installation of the Garden of Eden at the New York Museum of Natural history. Kate is his sister Phoebe, reaching for the gold ring on the frozen donkey wheel. And Jack is their dead brother, Allie. Damon, Carlton and JJ will be unveiled by Scooby Doo and Crow3711 as a bunch of phonies.
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So, if we take your co-theories as true and we know that someone will wind up the new protector of the island...who is missing from the further future? Who had to stay on the island and not get to live 'happily ever after'?
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Feb 17, 2010 1:39:32 PM CST
I'm not the one who turned this into a political discussion
by coughlins laws
However, when I see something truly stupid and from someone uninformed about what they're talking about, I speak up. First of all, Limbaugh is not the right hand man to the most powerful man on Planet Earth...Second of all, Limbaugh was NOT saying what he said in vein or in anger and was NOT calling a group of people that word in anger...Third of all, why is it that people can get mad at him for pointing out constantly and repeatedly what powerful liberals say, and then you somehow only get mad at him for saying it? It's just like last month. Harry Reid, the most powerful Democrat in Washington after Obama, said that Obama appeals to white Americans because he's "light-skinned" and doesn't speak with a "Negro dialect". Harry Reid, Senate Democrat leader said that. Limbaugh, for the next week or so, kept bringing this up over and over again, because the mainstream media gave him a pass. Had a Republican said that, they'd have been driven out of office, or at least the leadership. Those of us who are conservatives (40% of the country) hate this hypocrisy. It's nice to see someone in the media who will point out the racism and vulgarness of the left that the vast majority of the mainstream media choose to ignore. I'm sorry you don't like him and I'm sorry if you're too dense to see what he was doing. The show isn't for those with lesser intelligence who need every opinion spoon-fed to them by the likes of Keith Olbermann and Jon Stewart...
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the nonsmokey monster aka what locke saw in the 1st season... and walt ghost couldve been h it too... yep 2 smoke monsters
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Unn-hunnh. That's what was typed. Jeebus.
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Feb 17, 2010 1:43:31 PM CST
Anyway, anyone have a theory on how Locke became paralyzed?
by coughlins laws
Also, I love that we get to see everyone in a storyline on how their lives would be had they never made it to the island...
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ya know..to flatter. but. I don't know how to parody plagiarism.
Hey, I don't know.. maybe try coming up with some of your own theories.br>
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I love LOST. I don't think Darlton are phonies, and I don't understand why you've been attacking me for the last few posts. You're just being a douche. I'm on these talkbacks every week trying to be constructive most of the time. After this episode aired, imo, most of the things being talked about became incredibly stupid and empty speculation. You've taken to mean I think lost is stupid and has no meaning? You're way off base pal. I suggest you get a life, because saying something like that literally is retarded. I doubt too many people on here are as genuinely invested in LOST as I am. I watched Pilot the day it premiered and have never questioned my loyalty, stopped watching, or not been there to watch the episode live. You need some perspective buddy. You do.
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Well, Jack's card, which the camera lingered on, identifies him as a neurological spinal surgeon. Which makes me wonder, in this reality at least, Locke's problems might be psychosomatic, and Jack will actually heal him.
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that something is infallible it is very easy to then reason out in your head what doesn't make sense so that what you believe is infallible continues to be so.
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Oxycontin overdose?
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Good question but could two of them be Jacob and MIB --- aha !!!
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If you had ever read 'Catcher in the Rye.' sigh. but ya haven't.
Rosasaks is a girls name. really. you'd know that if you'd read that book too. Euro-Troll. -
name one theory I plagiarized from you, and then post the URL containing my plagiarized text as proof. I double-dog dare you. I'm not going to hold my breath
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MiB needs one of the candidates to release him using their free will. Otherwise they choose to become the new warden of the island, which detains the devil himself, smokie. There you have it, LOST explained. If you will excuse me, I'm going to have a little face-time with Ilana's bountiful titties. Om Nom Nom Nom!!!
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Will we ever find out who put that tatoo on it?Maybe, the shark is going to be the protector of the Island, to keep Godzilla or Cthulu away from it, or some shit...
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I didn't respond because I don't feel the need to. If you don't like the show that's fine. You don't have to. But, to ask for why the show is good in the space of a talkback is futile. It's good for the ride it takes you on, each episode at a time. I hate to say it but, if you want to know why we like it, watch every episode in order and ask again.
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And if I was to bet - based on who seems to have the most supernatural good luck in the new world I'd put money on Locke and.....Hurley.
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The moment you called half the talk back "retarded" you pretty much became an open target for ridicule in my book. YOU need some perspective, pal. YOU are not the arbiter of what the "facts" are, or whether people are allowed to speculate about a TV show. Got it, pal? Ditch the shitty attitude and come proper.
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IS A FORTY TWO YEAR OLD FULLY GROWN ADULT MAN !!!!
Just in case you were confused by his adolescent nonsense. -
My bet is he is in some sort of auto accident. Would be interesting to see it go down in a way that, instead of Michael getting nailed by the car it is Locke. Flash-sideways later on will reveal Michael and Walt as loving father and son. But, good luck ever seeing Walt again.
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is there´s really not much else to tell, apparently. A whole episode of MIB and Sawyer walking to a cave? woah, interesting. And Richad just happens to walk into Sawyer on an island this big? Gimme a break.
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You remind me of a little kid who won't let anyone look at his secret goldfish. Or you used to. Now you've moved to Hollywood and become a god damn prostitute.
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Little theory of mine based on last night's episode. Last night, Sawyer saw Locke and said "You're not Locke; you're not scared!". And Locke is actually Man in Black / Black Smoke.
Who else is notoriously frightened? Hugo Reyes. And what is he in the Alt-Timeline? Fearless and confident. Therefore, I think when time resets, Hugo will have taken over the Jacob position and Man in Black will be freed to the Alt Timeline and will take the role of Hugo. How this all works through, etc. etc., I have no idea. I just think this may end up being the outcome telegraphed by last night's episode. -
You were the one talking about BSG right? Well, I've never watched a single episode. So if I just went to wikipedia and "read up" on the plot, and then watched one episode, do you honestly think I would enjoy it even a fraction of the way you did?
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I agree. some fucktard comes in here and starts demanding we explain why we like a show he hates after watching one episode, cant say im too keen on wasting time explaining it to him when Id rather talk about the episode.
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But I think its obvious you are asking for your attention with your (knowingly) vitriolic comments and words that are labeled as hate speech. I don't think any of it is needed here to debate whether or not LOST is "good".
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I've been getting promised Kate would get naked and wet for five years. I'm tired of this mufftease!
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So, its okay to call people retards, right?
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I'm all for debate. I honestly don't even mind if you get so emotional over it that you call me names. But, explaining why you like a show to someone who's never watched it is like explaining why you like blue to a blind person. They can get the gist, but, c'mon, it ain't gonna happen.
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Didn't Locke say to Eko what he originally saw was a beautiful white light?
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I don't understand it. I don't get why rosasks and Crow and Bilbo and MacFaux and everyone else are insulting each other when the bottom line is, we all love LOST?
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Uh, I have no idea what your last post response to me even means, do you? Is it a state secret that only macfoes with the super secret sauce recipe can access? jeebus indeed.
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is a pretentious twat. And twats must be tweaked. Er...well...you know what i mean.
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Stop responding to trolls who are clearly just trying to get people riled up. And start responding to the more thoughtful calm posts people make. Arguing with the trolls drowns out the good posts.
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...well from a historical perspective we know the reason Abel's offering was considered better. It was because it was a blood offering. This fact is born out again and again throughout the Old Testament. That's not even really an issue. However, we are talking about this now in context to Lost, and about what the implications would be if those verses from Genesis were serving as a basis for the relatioship between MiB and Jacob. And to do that we have to be clear about what actually appears in the Bible as opposed to what folks get fed in Sunday School. Not, I suppose, that there would be anything keeping the show's writers from preferring the Sunday School version. Always creeped me out a little that they do that myself, because of the whole "whoever shall add...whoever shall take away" bit.
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The only difference being that, should MacFaux ever go back in time in a Delorean and have his own mother come onto him - the rest of the story would be about the results of inbreeding.
He is indeed a twat. -
Sorry, gal. I'll be more direct. You post was wrong. you are stupid..at least in this instance.
Clear enough? -
Agreed. I brought this up last night, but with everything in the ALT reality being so different I think it's important to note that when Locke told Helen what happened in Australia it was word for word the scene we saw in "Walkabout" which makes me think that scene and probably other took place in the ALT reality and not the one where the crash on the island.
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the nasty in the pasty.
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don't you all see that the whole point will be that the fake reality will lead to all the people ending up on the island anyway, thereby "closing" the loop like the ending of ZATHURA? You people.
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Death, be not proud, though some have called thee
Mighty and dreadful, for thou art not so;
For those whom thou thinkst thou dost overthrow
Die not, poor Death, nor yet canst thou kill me.
From rest and sleep, which but thy pictures be
Much pleasure; then from thee much more must flow
And soonest our best men with thee do go
Rest of their bones and soul's delivery.
Thou art slave to Fate, Chance, kings, and desperate men,
And dost with poison, war, and sickness dwell,
And poppies or charms can make us sleep as well
And better than thy stroke. Why swellst thou then?
One short sleep past, we wake eternally,
And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt die!i think this is LOST. -
You're willingness to expose others comments as "truly stupid" and "uniformed" has inspired me.
Hey guys, did you know Coughlins here didn't know that the word "casualty" refers to someone killed or INJURED in combat and that he angrily defended his incorrect definition of the word for an entire day on these boards?
Carry on Coughlins. -
Well, Jayson Blair, old yella, here ya go ..no need for link just scroll right back up. Feb 16th, 2010 04:35:04 PM
Oh wait..
http://tinyurl.com/BillPlagi
©
There ya go...don't make me go all day now...
Well, the smart guy said..the secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. -
watch ZATHURA. Tell me you can't have LOST totally spoiled by it. For real!
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Is it really? I'm not sure...definitely not funny
And yet...in a way...
I'm stickin with it. Grr. Its not funny.
Yeah, its not fucking cute, witty, or funny. Pathetic, lonely, would be closer to the mark. -
not for the least being Donne was a Jacobean. Greatness.
That Should be LOST. -
we haven't had Locke and Swyer together like that for as long as I can remember...
personal highlights were smokie vision, Locke and Helen(the mentioning of bringing his father to the wedding), Scared Richard....numbers, white stone being thrown away, and freaky your not allowed to do this kid(not to mention don't tell me what I can't do returning)...,
missing so much more but it was a really good solid geek heaven of an episode.....
Get locke inot teh temple and lets see some shit hit the fan....fantstic -
And time to GET IT ON!
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a word that no one uses in every day conversations, that they probably only ever talked about in junior high and high school when talking about Viet Nam or World War 2, and that I've seen at least 2 news organizations (CNN and CBS News) use regularly to mean the same thing as deaths. Nancy Grace used to put a graphic up every day saying there were 4,000(and counting) CASUALTIES in Iraq (she just recently started referring to them as combat deaths). Casualties is a word that Americans usually only talk about during times of War (shich usually only happens every 20 years)or when discussing history. I'm sorry I made that mistake. I owned up to it and admitted I was wrong. Are we past that yet? OK, now point out anything else I'm wrong about, or are you just going to continally act like a child and harp on the same pointless point forever? I can certainly play that game, too. Why should I take anything Obama says serioulsy when he thinks there are 57 states? (Or does he think there are 59? He said that he'd been to 57 states and had 2 to go. It's so hard to tell what that idiot-savant is talking about whenever he's off teleprompter...)
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So you are reaching out to grab a word in a post to my half-country man, Miyamoto right. Right?
That about it..well, I could tell you about the different meanings of what that word means. But. Somehow. 1) I don't think you could fathom it. and B) What do you care?
How old are you david19? What country do live in? What did you read at University? I mean, C'MON, if you are gonna make those assertions, be man enough to wear your colors.
*cough* yellow *cough* -
No teleprompter there. Course, Fox News cut off the feed when it became increasingly obvious Obama was winning that debate, so maybe you missed it. Honestly, that teleprompter joke is old and now needs to be put to bed based on the Prez's performance that day.
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Jesus Christ, Dude! Let it fucking go. Not the time or place.
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Feb 17, 2010 3:02:04 PM CST
Red Ned Lynch - you are making a quite common error
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
You are quoting biblical text from the old testament as if you are a Christian or at least in the christian vein, and you are doing it in a literal sense. I am a Jew. Abrams is a Jew. I assume he grew up the same as I with the Torah, not the bible. One of the first things we learned in Hebrew school was that the Torah is not to be taken literally, but is to be combined with teachings from scholars and the oral history of the Torah. As an example, an "eye for an eye" does not mean 'as like revenge' it means that if you harm me, you must compensate me in a like manner, pay my bills medical expenses etc. So, keeping in mind that if Abrams is referring to the Torah with that passage you quoted, he is also using the interpretation of that passage, which means that God found Cain's offering to be lacking.
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I am a Jew, so maybe you can understand - though I doubt it, why your comments are offensive. So, go fuck a rusty fork - sideways.
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Read my post to Red Ned - ok forget it I will just summarize: Abrams is a Jew, he grew up with the Torah -not the Bible. The Torah is not to be interpreted as literal it is to be used in conjunction with the oral history of the Torah and scholars. -so That means it aint literal. Got that pumpkin? I doubt it, but go play with your lips I am sure you find that amusing. Idiot.
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...yeah, but even as highly a regarded source as the Netziv says that God did what he did to Cain to teach him a lesson about how his was not the only Godly lifestyle. Yeah, I know a little bit about the Torah. And I know there are several different opinions as to the meaning of the story of Cain and Abel.
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...Rashi who explained it based on the idea that Abel brought his sacrifice from the first of his flock while the same may not have been specifically true of Cain's plants?
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Feb 17, 2010 3:14:21 PM CST
thotherjosh, they're the ones attacking me. I didn't start it...
by coughlins laws
As far as Obama at the GOP retreat, what exactly did he say that impressed you? He stood up and talked about bi-partisanship, then just lectured and shot down every thing Republicans said. Are you saying he looked very good lying for an hour? What specific piece of policy did he discuss in detail that you are impressed by? Also, the fact that he was at a lectern and you didn't see anyone asking questions made it look like he was a professor lecturing students. But he never really said anything. What did he say that wasn't a repeat of the shit he was flinging at the State of the Union? Anyway, enough politics. Why can't you guys leave politics out of a Lost talkback? Let it go. Let's talk again in November. I can't wait to see the excuses you guys come up with over the coming Democrat bloodbath...
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I think that some of the others like Dogen who have been on the island for a longer period of time know more about Jacob and MIB than Ben or even Richard knows. When Ben unleashed the smoke monster a few seasons ago, I think Locke asked him what it was and he didnt even really know. Then last night, when Flocke confronted Richard, he was shocked to learn how little Richard knew about the grand scheme of things. I think that if Ben really knew that MIB even existed then he wouldnt have been so easily manipulated to kill Jacob.
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You're the one that started it with the "I don't wanna get political BUT... I'm gonna do it anyway." Don't try to turn it around as if you're just a victim here.
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So, therefore you do see that it is not to be taken as the christian literal(which is what you appeared to be arguing up above), but open to the oral traditions and teachings and interpretations of the Torah. I have heard of the Netziv, but I honestly have never read any of his writings - I am not a Talmudic scholar by in stretch.
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Feb 17, 2010 3:21:04 PM CST
According to the Netziv re: Cain and the fairness of God
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
According to the Netziv, Cain is wrong in his conviction that only his Spartan way of life is pleasing to God. Life is not always fair in the sense that Cain defines fairness. Both the hard-working farmer's frugal comfort and the shepherd's leisurely lavishness can accommodate a life devoted to the service of God. It all depends on the spiritual orientation of one's efforts at work and the manner in which the individual uses or abuses his or her non-laboring time. This is what God seeks to communicate when He tells Cain that if he does well, his face will be lifted. But Cain remains with his envy and avenges himself on its object. The first murderer, as the Netziv resurrects him from the text, is not a one-dimensional figure, wicked from the womb. He is a human being very much like us, possessed of a keen sense of what is fair and what is not, and quick to feel hurt and humiliation when his vision of himself and his position in relation to others is confounded.
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...and my apology here, because my theological reading is a rather long way in my past now, and there were a few stretches of rought road since... ...but isn't there a school of thought in the Jewish faith (maybe not contemporary) which argues that Abel's purpose was to be killed and that he was never intended to rise to the level of actuality? I'm sure you can answer this one...is one backward translation of Abel vapor? Hevel? Am I completely off-base here? If not and if you're right about him drawing on the Jewish faith for Lost that could be very interesting.
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Feb 17, 2010 3:24:07 PM CST
That was a direct quote from Rabbi Shalom Carmy
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
Regarding what the Netziv said about Cain
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Who ARE you? : )
When I get back to the States, we are going to sit down for some Everything bagels (or garlic if they are out) some Philly cream cheese, red onion and smoked salmon. Man, I'd kill for that right now.Kobe? You in? -
...Kobe, tinyurl me unless you got that from a book.
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That's all I've got.Well, at least, it seems troubling. Somebody was trapped in the cabin when Ben took Locke there, and we assume it was Flocke because Richard was visiting Jacob that entire time. Upon visiting the cabin they broke the ash-seal and released him, but this was...what, season 3? The Smoke monster has been around from the start.Either there are two opposing Smokies, or it is a different entity entirely. In the temple painting we did see the Gods bowing to it.
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This is excactly what I am talking about."what exactly did he say that impressed you?" Nothing. Not a goddamn thing. Not a fan. Not even a registered voter. But, even though all I said was, not the place for a political debate, you read I jerk off to Obamas picture on the hour and responded in kind. What the fuck is that?
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Feb 17, 2010 3:25:28 PM CST
D.Vader, the political discussion started LONGGG before
by coughlins laws
I commented on this talkback. All anyone has to do is read the first post on. I saw a couple stupid political points and I responded to them. Then, as per usual, the personal attacks started against me. I guess I ask for it. But, I was all excited about seeing others opinions about last night's episode and I was disappointed to see the nonsense political shit from people's who's sole sources of information are far-Left people like Olbermann, Maher, and Stewart. I will continue to specifically point out what I think is wrong about political statements, despite the unfair treatment and off-topic, personal I receive in return. However, I still would like to just discuss Lost. So, what'd you think? How'd Locke break his back in this timeline? Is Evil Locke really not evil like he's said or is he just trying to trick Sawyer?
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*commences reading TB*
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This is a joke right? Like a performance piece.
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...trust me, I ain't nothing. I've got writer's knowledge. Which means about a thousand miles wide and about a half inch deep. But thank you all the same.
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I think, at this point, that it almost has to be.
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"Hey fuck you guys for deeply personal reasons and your long held beliefs. Now talk about LOST with me."
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Really? Nancy Grace got it wrong? Well hell I stand corrected that vapid mouthpiece got it wrong too. But I guess I can see your point about the word only used druing times of war. I mean when's the last time the U.S. was at war with anyone? Oh yeah, during our entire history as a nation. My bad.
I could spend all day pointing out the things you're wrong about but I don't have the time or care enough about you to attempt such a feat. I'm sure you're probably busy recounting the OIC states anyway.
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I think both Sawyer and Flocke are conning each other.
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Anyone notice Lockes alarm clock was the sound of the countdown clock reaching zero.
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You do realize the irony of your last post, right?
I'm with MadFuckingMax, I've gotta' catch up. Go to frickin' work for 7 lousy hours and there's too much TBs to read rassafrassum... -
Im not sure Abrams faith would really figure into this. He kinda kicked the show in the right direction, but I dont think he does much in the way of writing. Not saying that is or isnt the case but Im skeptical.
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Sorry I wasn't around today to answer you. But in response, no, of course it's alright not to like Lost. And I'm all for discussion on the subject.
But when your first post in a TB is to call we who enjoy the show 'faggots' for liking a 'pussy ass show' with no real explination (besides lack of action, which I could point you to all kiiiiinds of action in Lost), then I'll respond in kind.
Faggot! -
It was a regular alarm clock for good old John Locke. In the Desmond episode, however, "Flashes Before Your Eyes", HIS alarm clock WAS the Swan countdown sound.
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It was two sentences but one line, numbnuts.
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to Vermin. But I'll make an exception in your case. This one time more.
Do you know how I know you are a child. Insignificant. Never served anything but yourself..barely off the tit? Cause you type something so near fetus and foul as Angus Jack MacAlzheimers.
I know you are a child... cause you have never had to deal with any real hardship. You know.. like, leave the gig you were born to do, retire from the thing you love cause your FATHER, a Veteran of Foreign Wars HAS Alzheimers. And you would rather die than see him in a nursing home.
You know, rat fuck, like watch a man who was 6'2" 210 (sorry, nazi-lover thats 'merican ..no metric for you) who spent his life after the service getting up before dawn, coming home after dark, doing a pride swallowing job, like most do (you wouldn't know), to provide for his family. Never suck off a gov't tit.. Pay for one kids Ivy League education and the other's...well
MacAlzheimers. You typed it didn't ya. See him shrink from that program size above down 6 inches and 60 pounds less. Have him move in, fill your days, live with you, feed him three times a day, dress him, medicate him, bathe him, care for him.. only..
only.. to not even remember who you are, what his name is, where he is from, the magnificent things he has done. How to go to the toilet. Oh, and then, him want to fist fight you every third day over something unknown. (and this is guy who is trained)..
So, excuse the fuck out of me, if my service and sacrifice tweren't enough. That don't matter to you. Where you are from. Though you enjoyed the umbrella that kept the rain off of ya..cowards always do
I get to go no where. Do nothing that doesn't allow me to be danger close if He needs assistance. So, wee lil fucker, if I show up drunk a day and half every week to have fun here. Well, I beg your fuckin pardon, 'big' man. Fuckin deal with it.
I mention all of this not to tug your heart strings, or pocket your pity, you pussy. Not to let those who might read this know you are childish and despicable human being for having a laugh with MacAlzheimers. Whether you followed 2leg to my Twitter or you are another login of 2leg and were too stupid to understand what Alzhiemers caretaker meant, you little fuckin dick.
As Hurley said man. "That's not cool"
I write this cause I want the kids here to know... Man, more is coming. If you are Twenty something. Prepare. I wish I had. Long Term Care. Buy it. Your parents will live older than you think. And Alzheimers will be the disease du jour in the decades to come. Also, hope if you have a brief moment and a buck go here and donate:
http://www.alz.org/
Pay now or pay later. Hope the docs figure it out.
But, hey, Darryl_Revok named for the archetype euro-nazi douche coward character..thanks for your clever, pal. You are... a really special 'man'. And I, actually, I do hope all know your character. dick. -
I don't want to get into a Bible debate, but from what I understand is that the reason why Abel's offering was accepted and Cains was rejected didn't have to do with their offerings exactly, but their obedience. God commanded an animal sacrefice. Abel obeyed, Cain decided to sacrifice what he wanted to sacrifice. Abel's Sacrifice was accepted because he was obidient to Gods commandment.
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I think you might be wrong on the alarm clock. When it first goes off it sounds like the Swan timer and then it gradually morphs into a regular alarm sound. At least that's what I remember.
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Well, it's two sentences.
THIS is a second line. -
Abrams has pretty much nothing to do with Lost since early season 1. They actually didn't plan out the whole series roughly until after he left mid season 1
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I really think it was the swan sound. You could argue it wasn't, but was just really close, but why would they use a similar sound without reason?
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Id say then that Christianity believes more or less the same as Judaism on this point. If later text is expounding on the Cain story to shed light on why God did not like his sacrifice, ok, I'll bite. I won't disagree that its possible it was intentional to explain God and Cain's intent later, rather than when the Bible actually tells the story. However, in my view of what I read (this is my understanding, not my belief) God simply does whatever the hell he wants, and decided that he would accept Abel and not Cain. Unless there is more to the story that isnt written down, it seems to me that Cain was unaware that God wanted a blood sacrifice, and just got himself a nice shock. This makes more sense to me cause now I get why he was pissed off enough to kill Abel.
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What does that have to do with anything HoboCode was talking about? Just being mean to be mean? Deflecting much?
Here, don't get anyone else all riled up. Just shoot that shit at me. Here, I'll help. My dad was a gay stripper and my mother was a crack whore. Go nuts. Just leave everybody else alone. -
THERE ya go!
But why do you think I'm a homophobe? I just told you, my dad's gay as shit. -
'tri-force'? Is that a Zelda reference? Or like a tri-sexual, 'He'll TRY anything!' Yuck, yuck, yuck!
I just don't get it. I must be stupid. Ooh, you can use that too! How dumb I am!
Go crazy. -
Spoken from the heart. If you spoke like that more often, you might not come off as the pretentious vinegary douche that you are.I would never have guessed you were only 42. They say tv cameras add ten pounds. I guess pretentiousness adds ten years.You don't really get to act all high and mighty with all the venom that you have spewed on this board. You sling mud and guess what? You get muddy.Didn't hear any snorting or chuckling that time.
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It most certainly was not me. Find the quote, shitbird.
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freecreditreport.com? I hear ya'. Those bastards and their instruments...
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My memory of it was me thinking "Hmmm, that doesn't sound like the Swan, or any other previous sound effect before. Missed opportunity." That's what I thought as the scene played. But I could have been listening wrong.
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I just told you, I'm not a homophobe! Geeze!
I have done some shows at the VCT, with many fine homosexual individuals...are you from the area? Do I know you? C'mon...you're Matt Tassell, aren't you? -
And yes...I was raped at the VCT. Very painful to remember...*sniffle*
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I don't wanna sound like Rodney King or anything, but having to read through all these attacks and insults on each other is getting annoying. Its starting to push me away from this talkback, which used to feature more LOST discussion than anything else.
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Do you think they will do something fun with that, or just ignore it. I'm going to guess ignore it, because obviously it doesn't matter, but since the numbers did come back in a big way this week, maybe there will at least be a small nod to the fact that its the 108th episode. Who knows, just thought it was a fun bit of trivia to share...
Maybe I'll be attacked for this post too -
To hopefully actually talk about Lost.
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Who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler?
If you think we’re on the run...
We are the boys who will stop your little game,
We are the boys who will make you think again.
'Cause, who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler?
If you think old England’s done.
Mr Brown goes off to town on the 8:21,
But he comes home each evening and he’s ready with his gun.
So, who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler?
If you think old England’s done.
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Feb 17, 2010 4:26:59 PM CST
Yeah, you're right. Throughout my lifetime we've been at war
by coughlins laws
constantly. Well, let me fill you in on some facts. I was born in 1976. Viet Nam was over. Then we didn't have another real war until 1991 which lasted all of six weeks. So, from the time I was born until the Afghanistan War, there were a total of a few weeks of actual war and some skermishes here and there that were never referred to as wars and the death tolls were so small that no one ever used the word casualties. In fact, I'd like to know how many times in your lifetime you've actually used the word "casualties" outside a classroom. I'm sorry, but no matter how many times you try to convince people, it's just not a common word that's used in every day conversation. Why are you so obsessed with it? As far as thotherjosh, I think you're confusing what other people do to me. I show everyone I talk with here respect (even though it's unearned). I don't say "fuck you, you're wrong". I give thought-out, point by point refutations of what I think they're saying is wrong. I don't throw personal attacks out there. I have a couple of times after being bated by dozens of posts in a row of hatred and sometimes wishing for my death. But whenever I join these conversations I am respectful. All you have to do is read my posts to see this. I am not rude and I don't personally attack like you just did...
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You can add paranoia to your list of douche bag traits.
I won't be logging on under multiple log ins to deal you...thats the kind of immature shite that folk like you dream up.
How old are you again - 42 !!!!--unbelievable.
Considering what your father and you went through, I find it utterly incredible that you are still the totally selfish egotistical twat you appear to be today. Did the experience teach you nothing about what the truly important things in life are ?
42, helped his father through Alzheimers and yet is still posting adolescent shit - incredible. -
With Darlton mentioning we won't be seeing much of Dharma in this final season, one has to wonder why/how the Initiative used the numbers from Jacob's list as the computer code for the hatch.
Or are we still not talking about LOST anymore? Should I find someone to attack? -
Feb 17, 2010 4:46:28 PM CST
*Cough, cough* d like to take credit for the Cain & Abel de
by tomonicker
Oh, what, you say you find my offering lacking? *kapow*Kapow* Actually, I just read the entries off wikipedia, and all of them were interesting, but honestly, I hope they are not relevant to LOST in the end. Personally, I'm hoping Sawyer isn't getting in to deep with Smokey as so far Smokey's been a pulling everyone's strings. It's even funny if you think about it, that when he talks to Richard about being kept in the dark by Jacob that he's been possibly masquerading as Jacob through Ben, ect. for a while now... *scratches head* Now, of course, Jacob must have had some inkling what Smokey was up to???
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I agree that the use of the numbers throughut the show now seems...inconsistent at best in some way. They need to explain why the numbers of our survivors seem to be important in certain ways all over the universe, while Claires number (313) or the other peoples many, many numbers have no importance to anyone as far as I can tell. Our numbers were everywhere, for lots of people who weren't the six names on the wall. That's why I was hoping that maybe next week, being episode 108, they could take the opportunity to go back and talk about the hatch and the computer and the button etc. We shall see. But I'm with you, forget these foolish attacks.
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I damn Talkback for not having an edit function...
I was refering above to my introduction of the Cain & Abel idea earlier this thread, jokingly of course... -
That numbers question highlights how Lost is a combination of Sci-Fi/Fantasy and Myth. Sometimes its hard to get your head around how it could all blend together.
One thing that could link science to the paranormal would be "String Theory". So maybe the numbers form part of a universal string that then affects everythign around it. -
Not a fully formed theory, not much of anything, but just imagine a REALLY FUCKING LONG con. Like eons. Lifetimes.
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Is somebody really powerful like Rose Tyler in Dr Who, who spread the clue "Bad Wolf" throughout space and time to lead herself in the right direction.
But that would feel too derivative for this show. -
Congrats. That's the single stupidest, most offensive post I've ever seen after being an avid viewer of this site since 2006.
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ABC needs to stop running this crap until LOST stops posing new questions .
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I don't have an entry for "04:35:04 PM" from yesterday, so you'd better paste in whatever you got there so I can see it.
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Thanks for listening, and not just bashing or ignoring me Crow. I'm mostly alright with the numbers kind of resonating and echoing throughout the show everywhere. It seems to give them an air of importance, and in a way, illustrates various themes of fate and recurrence. It's more the in-universe usages that stump me. Since Ben grew up Dharma, and we now know Dharma were hopelessly ignorant of the larger implications of the Island/Jacob/MIB conundrum and their powers/functions, and even he had limits to his knowledge, how on Earth did the Initiative get to the point of using those damned numbers? I'm counting (not a pun) on learning these things when and if we are privy to any post-incident activities. Pouring the concrete, etc...
Like your "String Theory" 2Legged. Well, not YOUR string theory, but that is definitely some food for thought. -
Shoot me someone has mentioned it already.The kid is Smokey's son.Smokey told Sawyer that he too had lost someone he loved. Doesn't mean it was a lover.
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http://tinyurl.com/ydkzbv7 (remove any spaces)
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If you're going to take an internet joke so hard, maybe you shouldn't come on here every day and belittle everyone for not knowing Latin and Chinese and having every poem of William Blake memorized. If you can use this forum as your own private outlet to talk however you want, you can't get pissy when other people do the same thing.
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So UnLocke said that the list was to find a replacement for Jacob. That would seem to imply that only one of the numbers was the truly important one. Yet, we have 108, which is the sum of our numbers. Seems to indicate that all of them are important, I mean shit, it's an equation right? I feel that NonLocke is definitely pulling an Emperor Palpatine maneuver. Mixing in a little dab of truth with a whole fuckload of lie.
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Sorry, I posted that without realizing how much had been posted after McFaux's complaint. Don't bother responding to me. This talkback is toxic; I'm not coming back.
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...I sincerely hope your wish is fulfilled, Crow. I'm not bothered by Not-Locke's casual brush-off to Sawyer about the numbers because I believe that to certainly be a lie. I'm not overly concerned about the names in the cave at all, at least at this point, because although I suspect there is significance to their presence in the cave I also suspect that it is not precisely what Not-Locke claimed. I don't really think either MiB or Richard told Sawyer the truth last night, though I think there are truths mixed in to what both of them told him. 2 Legged...string theory. Oh yes. That would be scrumptious.
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...and I suspect it may be fueled by wishful thinking. But... Here goes and blow it to pieces as you will. From a purely narrative standpoint it would have seemed more fitting to me for Locke's body to be abandoned on the beach. The sad, abandoned coda to a life that had been discarded a belittled for nearly every instant it was lived. But instead he was buried. Instead the writers made a point of him being buried. Now that may have just been to give Ben a chance to confess one of his many sins. It may have been to mirror Ben and Locke's first meeting in LA. It may even have been that the writers just didn't want to leave Locke to the crabs and tide. But they put enough time into the process that it makes me wonder if Locke on the island is really a completed transaction. Like I said, probably wishful thinking.
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...baby'snamesworld. And man I'm glad when the neurons fire. Doesn't happen all that often. Hevel is the Hebrew word for Abel. Hevel means breath or vapor. Now I'd be willing to bet my house (and its mortgage) that there's nothing more in that than coincidence, but it is a fun one.
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I still think it was Smokey/MIB posing as Locke's father. So I could see where Smokey finds the "bond" between Locke and Ford. He has seen them together. Despite that he kept them thinking James had "killed" him - a con - as we now know he can't be killed by even bullets targeted at him. So what's the point there? And Ben seemed to have Smokey under control (as with the Magic Box and him pulling the drain in the cellar of his Dharma-House). So why can it possibly be that Ben doesn't know, what's Smokey REALLY capable of - as evidently seen lately? And why is Smokey now so afraid of this boy that even James can see? Is that boy the real "They're coming!" Jacob's claimed? Are we fooled to think it's just a war between the Temple Others and... WHO? I'm just a humble minion in the eye of human mankind... but if that would be my last wish here on earth - I want to live through the end of this season 6! After that I'm ready to go anywhere... Well, if there's another tv show on the horizon keeping my mind THIS invested... I shall stay!
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I'm sure we're being duped regarding Smokie and Flocke.I don't know exactly how, but I'm sure of it. Are we ever going to be privvy to Widmore and Ben's discussion of rules at any point? Were they ever candidates too? I know they discussed the implications of killing one another.
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He's certainly what I've been thinking about the most since the show aired. Probably how I ended up falling down the Cain and Abel rabbit hole. So what do we know about him? Blonde and certainly of European descent. Age range between maybe six and twelve (though my wife believes he was younger the first time we saw him than the second). Blood on his hands the first time we saw him. Wasn't seen by Richard during his first appearance. Was seen by Sawyer during his second appearance. Gave a warning about the rules to Smocke. Also ran from him. And escaped him. Anything else?
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is Smokey's son.The 'loved one' he lost when he was a normal man.I'm calling it. ;)
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He was the very first person killed by the smoke. He is also the only person see know how the plane crashed. I bet he comes back this season.
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As in the LA X timeline, Locke's got a happy pic of him & Daddy, and that already contrasts deeply with original timeline Locke's Dad. It seems unlikely that Smokey would be able to play possum like that? So far NonLocke seems to sweat pretty much like a human, and although I haven't seen him eat or drink, as far as I recall, Jacob did offer him some food and he said he had already ate.
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...no offence, but I hope you're wrong. It's very cause and effect, and in addition if the apparition is actually the persisting consciousness of MiB's dead son would MiB want to leave the island and that last lingering of his son behind? It's possible, I guess, depending on the circumstances of the boy's death and his attitude in returning, but with Lost I'm hoping for something a little more...twisty.
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Good point and I also thought it was odd that last season the Others were determined to retrieve their guy's body from the Dharma people, presumably to bury him. The way this show has stressed burials over the series run suggests there will turn out to be something to that - maybe not alive again but it probably matters in some way.
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...last season's finale. Some water while talking to Richard. That brings me to the point, why NonLocke wasnt recognized by Ilana in "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" when she now claims, the people at "the Foot of the Statue" had to see his face... She had an agenda, but she didn't seem to recognize the unaccounted passenger of Ajira Flight 316... or has it already been answered and I've just forgotten...? Stupid agin' of mine... Anybody feel free to call me Mr. Alzheimer then!
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Amazing Maurice mentioned the interesting idea that the kid is Smokey's kid. But then I thought well but more likely Jacob's kid, right? Since he looks like him. But why can't he be both: the son of Jacob and Smokey. If we assume that Smokey took over the Man in Black's body and that was not his/her original form, it seems possible.
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...eating in front of Ilana - back "Jeremy Bentham" then...
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then what we and the characters are seeing is just the island manifestation of him, not actually HIM.Over the summer, we had gotten used to the idea that all of the previous 'ghosts' was simply Smokey in disguise.But that doesn't seem to be the case.The island can fuck with Smokey too. But he's been around long enuogh to be wise to its tricks, so he's knows it not really his son standing before him drenched in blood - it's just the island messing with him.
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Fuck my English
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...what a creepy effing idea! And with MiB so desperate to run, so desperate to leave...just leave! MiB didn't point out Kate's name in the cave. It's probably rubbish. But it is beautiful rubbish if it is and I do salute you.
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Why not just transform into smoke monster mode and catch him that way?
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...the child is Aaron. Not really Kate's either, but someone she loves. And the meanest iteration of who Jacob is would then be Sawyer. Two people destined to be alone forced to spend a sizable portion of eternity together. Great ghost story but probably not what is going to happen.
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So that we can see him crawl out of the sand when all the dead rise.
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...make a joke about how Locke was now Kate? And D. Vader, I too am a believer in the concept that all great stories must end with the dead rising. In my head there's a version of the Godfather where Sonny and Luca are two of the hitters that help Michael settle all the family business.
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I love me some Lox and Bagels! I think it is the capers that really send it over the top for me. Yup, I am there! David19 - I can't speak to the christian bible, but everything I have heard, and from what I have just read from The Netziv, I think that it was due to Cain's lack of true belief as opposed to God being capricious.Red Ned - here ya go, and btw I have no idea if Abrams is still creatively involved or whether or not he would steer the storyline toward the Torah and its interpretation, but I think too often Christians tend to overlook the fact that the Bible in old testament form, is heavily influenced by the five books of Moses. It aint called Judeo/Christian for nuthin.
http://tinyurl.com/yacbs9u -
...but if Smocke knows the boy he's seeing is just a manifestation of the island what's the point? To get on his nerves? And why would he chase it?
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...hey thank you! Going to go read this.
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Did anyone else think that the Kwan written on the stone was the baby and not Jin or Sun? Just the way Locke made a point of saying he didn't know if it was Jin or Sun made me think that the reason he didn't know was because it was neither of them.
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Heck, since season 3 I've been thinking that every single apparition on the island was just a manifestation of Smokey fucking with people. but if SmokeyLocke is seeing visions of people, then I guess maybe not. Hurm. Speaking of Smokey mainfestations, Ilana said that Smokey can't transform into other people anymore HOWEVER, like, 3 days ago in LOST time. Maybe less, Smokey, while walking around as Locke, turned into Alex to appear to Ben. But now Smokey is stuck as Locke (but can still turn into his Smoke-Monster self whenever he wants)? Either that's just a continuity glitch which I'll just shrug over, or Jacob's death means Smokey is stuck looking like Locke from now on.
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Was infuriatingly vague, and seemed entirely made up by the writers in my opinion. "We need to keep O'Quinn on the show, hes doing great as the MiB, we'll just say in one line he can't change anymore" And Ben didn't ask.."well why is that?" That was so bad. The only bad moment of the otherwise excellent episode. It really read like a "making this up this moment" type of rule. The point TallBoy66 makes about Smokey turning into Alex just a few days ago is very telling of just how much bullshit that line was. All Ben had to do was say why and I'd be happy. The fact that he didn't is beyond daft.
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...you rock. I'll have bagels with you and Mr. Revok anytime (though I'm going to be quite a disappointment for Darryl).
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It's possible that Christian could also be some form of the kid.
They made it very clear that Sawyer could see him, (whose name was written), Sawyer also sees the Black Horse.
Other 815'ers who were all on the wall list have also seen things on the island that others cannot.
I'm thinking this a version of whoever the kid is. Well, besides waterfall Walt.
But who the hell knows what was going on there.
But I dont think Kates name was listed and she saw the horse...but then again, who cares about Kate. -
they're making the show up as they go along? i can't believe i watch it when i continue to hate it. i swear it's a socialogical experiment on the part of hollywoods television devision
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Lox and bagels rock, I just roll with them! You are welcome. Thanks for reminding me of The Netziv.
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Hey all! A busy day kept me from the discussions today, but here's my blog on the mysteries revealed/analyzed in this week's episode: http://tinyurl.com/yljyckr
Enjoy and let me know what you think! I'll start trying to catch up on some of what's been talked about here.
@Crow3711 - You might be right about that line being a "Writers' Way Out," but possibly not. I mean they could have easily just had the MIB like being Locke :) But hopefully, as you say, they'll elaborate more and the loss of some of his powers after Jacob died will be a legitimate part of the story... I talk about this a bit in the aforementioned blog. -
What is obvious is that they planned out the past 3 seasons a while ago. Everything fits and is coming together.
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(Silly primative formatting...)
Hey all! A busy day kept me from the discussions today, but here's my blog on the mysteries revealed/analyzed in this week's episode:
SagaciousPenguin's Blog: http://tinyurl.com/yljyckr
Enjoy and let me know what you think! I'll start trying to catch up on some of what's been talked about here.
@Crow3711 - You might be right about that line being a "Writers' Way Out," but possibly not. I mean they could have easily just had the MIB like being Locke :) But hopefully, as you say, they'll elaborate more and the loss of some of his powers after Jacob died will be a legitimate part of the story... I talk about this a bit in the aforementioned blog. -
Go watch Heroes then. And yes, D&C decided to end it at a certian time so they could write the rest of the show out. It's been planned for 3 years now. Do your research.
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If they had said something about the connection between MiB and Jacob, that once Jacob was dead, he lost some of the powers he had on the island. It doesn't quite add up because he can clearly go all Smoke Monster whenever he wants...but I like the idea of once Jacob is gone he lost a power or two. I would also accept an explanation along the lines of something having to do with the rules of the game, and MiB has to choose one of Jacobs candidates as his primary vessel for manipulation or something, and once he chooses his "pawn" as it were, the game is set and he is stuck as that player. I would buy that easy, something about the connection between him and the candidates. Hopefully thyell give us *something* and not just leave it at "yeah he cant change anymore...lucky for us"
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...I like your second alternative better. It's less gimmicky and feels more true to the spirit of the show.
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I hope they'll give us more, too.
What seems to hint at it being a result of Jacob's death is the fact that we saw Smokey appear as Alex after he first started appearing as John Locke.
I have a feeling MIB losing powers thanks to Jacob's death might make more sense if it comes to be that Jacob trapped him into the Smokey form to begin with... I talk more about that possibility on the blog so I won't repeat myself too much here. Suffice to say that I think MIB is trapped in more ways than just on the Island. I think he might have a Barbossa-like hunger for genuine humanity again... remember the way he loved the heck out of that Mango back when he first emerged from the Ajira 315 cargo hold... -
Into Alex. So either Jacob dying had something to do with Smokey being stuck as Locke, or it's just a throwaway reference that you can either nitpick to death or just No Prize your own reasoning why Smokey can't change into anyone else anymore. (Personally, I would have just been fine with Smokey saying that he "enjoys" being Locke. He does have his memories and it seems he's starting to pick up some of his "DON'T TELL ME WHAT I CAN'T DO!" habits.) Personally, I think this line was just a throwaway so the audience would know that they weren't going to go all Skrull/Cylon on us where "Anyone can be the Smoke monster!" which would be a bit too simple for this show.
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...yeah, the tantrum redux was too specific and too closely spaced to just be a toss-off. The question, of course, is what it means. I sincerely hope it isn't the hoary old "the longer it's in this form..." thing because that has been done to putrefaction.
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Jacob wasnt dead yet when he changed. Thats why he cant change anymore. Ilana confirmed this last night.
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...as simple as that both Locke and MiB reject their limitations and have faith in their ability to transcend them. If the timing had been a little different I might have even thought that Rose's talk with Locke had freed him from (or stolen from him, depending on your point of view) that aspect of his personality in LA and it somehow was transposed to the Not-Locke on the island. Although that wouldn't even read well, because MiB had already demonstrated a hatred for the limitations forced on it.
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Well, you cant catch a 12-year old kid and take the forms of dead people anymore. POOM!
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No spoilers please, but there is got to be something more to her, picking up the ashes (maybe to attempt some kind of resurrection), hanging out with the guys still.
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I would respect that answer the most...but still, liking the body has no bearing on the fact that he "cant" change. Not that he doesnt want to. But that he no longer can. It has to have something to do with Jacob dying. I can't noodle out any other connections on that one. Nice discussion though, very thought provoking. The tidbit with him turning into Alex is a very important piece of information to remember.
@ToughGuyRizzo - ZING! haha, good stuff -
...when she first started gathering the ashes my first thought was resurrection, too. But my wife (and I think some folks somewhere above) both assumed it was ashes for protection. Which may raise the question of where the ashes used before came from. That's assuming, of course, that these are special ashes and that any sort of ashes (or even any sort of cremated human ashes) would perform the same function.
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...is Jin.
42! -
...some idiot wrote "would" where he should have written "wouldn't".
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Great moment when Smokie said that.
Terry O'Quinn has been great throught the series, but he keeps brining his performance to new, higher levels. Josh Holloway has grown leaps and bounds and is now great.
Only thing I missed from the episode was Dogen (Sanada Hiroyuki - Lost is very lucky to have him on the show) and Des (possibly my favourite character) -
MIB made Ben think he was forgiven, but then used Alex to get Ben to ultimately do MIB's bidding. His gola, killing Jacob.
W@onder if it was a spiritual thing, like, Locke, as leader of the others, if he wanted, could kill Jacob. (If there werent time flashes)
Locke dies, and without anyone knowing, Ben is the actual leader by way of default. So he was ble to trick Ben and I dunn,maybe thats the loophole. -
what makes the protective ashes (which seem to be in huge quantities) special and where did they come from.
I hope there is something a bit more special about these particular ashes. Hope there is a payoff later on, where they are used in a ceremony of some sorts whether that be for Jacob's resurrection, or in an offensive way against Smokie. -
Suck it, haters. That is all.
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I hope since they're trying to mirror the first season that this is how Sawyer's con history comes back into play.
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...pluses both ways. I have an emotional pull toward the ashes performing some function more special than keeping the monster away. On the other hand, if keeping the monster away is a property special to only a certain kind of ashes it suggests that the show is doing as Incarnations of Immortality riff. And that is a direction I would find satisfying.
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Glad you know now.
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Good call. Sawyers no dummy. He's proven he'll help his friends.
During the season 5 time flashes, he was generally concerned for Locke when he went down the well, and disappeared. -
a cold open scene aboard the Black Rock, full on period piece no expense spared with Richard Alpert chained up, and Jacob chained up right next to him offering words of wisdom. It's a shame that the ad/accountant wizards would never approve of that idea.
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When I think about Cain and Abel in regards to Lost, I don't think of it 100%, literally as a Juedo-Christian story.
I come from a "Western" country that has its history from a christian society, hence Cain and Abel is something that I can easily relate to. But like most (if not all) stories in the bible, toragh, koran etc, these are age old fables, with tweaks to the stories, different names, different places but largely the same story, story telling the same message.
I am not a scholar of Egyptian mythology, but am sure there would be a story that could be compared to this and that would be as relevant.
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Probably. But speaking of Egyptian, wonder if aliens did land on the Island some long time ago....just sayin. Wonder if we'll get an explanation on that. I know the Island is old, but well, I'd love to know the what the date was when we see Jacob and MIB having that beach conversation.
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I know its exciting to think that Richard was a slave on the black rock and stuff...but I just want to really think this one out. Lots of things we have seen has been of Egyptian mythological origin. They've implied Richard is VERY old. The black rock crashed on the island in 1845. I get the impression Richard is older than that, personally, and if they are going to use the upcoming Richard episode to unpack a lot of history of the island stuff, I really don't think we are going back nearly far enough. I mean look at the four toed statue. Couldn't he have been a slave building that fucking thing? Something more tied to the Egyptian history of the island. Its getting to the point they need to find a way to explain these origins, and if Richard does come from that long ago, using a Richard episode would be a logical way to do that. If he comes on the black rock...thats only like 160 years of the islands history...not nearly far back enough imo. This conflict has been going on a lot longer than 160 years. As we've discussed, this stuff seems biblical. 160 years is not long enough, and I don't think Richards episode is going to start there. I think the scene with MiB and Jacob watching the black rock come was only meant to show the past using a reference point we can all understand and remember. This is, of course, just a theory. And in light of my previous comments, I'll probably be called retarded, especially considering, as I said, there is no evidence to support it. But there is also no real evidence to support the theory he was on the black rock.
According to lostpedia, the black rock was on a trading voyage to what is now thailand. Why would they have/need slaves to take to thailand to trade? I think Richard is Egyptian or some shit. He even looks a little bit ethnic that way, with the eyeliner-ish eyes and the olive skin. Again, just a theory, and we'll see in a few weeks. But Richard being on the black rock just doesnt seem important enough to me. 160 years..? -
This talkback has become a cess pool. I'm time traveling. Mind the nose bleeds.
4+3x9-2+7 -
Where did this theory that Richard was on the black rock start anyway? Is there any evidence I'm forgetting that has made it such a prominent theory amongst people? I mean, I admit, I thought it was probably true for awhile, I'm just aying the more I think about it the more unlikely it seems to me. But I'll admit if I'm totally wrong in a few weeks of course. I'm just spitballin'. Anyone know where the theory originated or how it is backed up? Even I forget things sometimes.
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guess what??? same typical fuckwad trolls. always fuck up a good LOST tb. it was going SO WELL. just ignore them. but, on a good note...some really good discussions and theories.
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Regardless of what MIB tells Sawyer, I believe Richard to be a reasonable person.
He gave the Army a chance to leave in 54, but they declined and then they had to attack them.
I totally think MIB is full of shit about not having to protect the Island. It's Terry O'Quinn's acting that makes it so convincing tho. You want to believe him.
Crow, we arent 100% on Richard being on the Black Rock. But I just remember the episode The Brig, it looked like people were chained here and there. (Regardless of the actual brig.)
So in reference to what MIB says to Richard about being out of those chains, I'm leaning on that. I mean, what else could TPTB pull? They seem pretty keen to the Black Rock by this point as it being very relevant in this story. -
...i was about to say that about richard and the ship... but yea its toooo obvious of a backstory... but i bet ya dogen was on it
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We know that:
1) The Numbers represent the six environmental factors of the Valenzetti Equation, which predicts the precise moment of the End of the World.
2) The Dharma Initiative believed that they could prevent or delay the End of the World f they could find a way to change one or more of the numbers.
3) Six of the Losties represents one of each of the numbers.
Therefore...
In Reality#1, two of the Losties have been "changed" (Locke and Sayid), because they died and were possessed, probably by Jacob and Esau. So maybe in Reality#1, the End of the World has been averted, or at least delayed.
In Reality#2, it appears that Jacob never met the Losties on the mainland for the purpose of manipulating their lives. Maybe Jacob doesn't even exist in Reality#2. So that means in Reality#2 the Valenzetti Equation never gets changed, and the world ends right on schedule ... presumedly at the end of the season.
In order to verify this theory, we really need to know if the Numbers exist in Reality#2. What numbers did Hugo use to win the lottery?!?! -
Feb 17, 2010 10:34:50 PM CST
Random Thought: Any complete translations of Dogen around?
by tomonicker
I know there's probably precious little but I sort of remember a couple of lines were not translated by Lennon, could they hold hints? Checked Lostpedia but nothing.
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the limited time u can use it lol. i need to get me a laptop or something when im on the road. any ideas on a good one? i just need one for internet access basically. gotta go...
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Feb 17, 2010 10:37:34 PM CST
Richard think more Black Rock than ancient Egyptian
by miyamoto_musashi
And what a different Richard we saw in recent episodes, shocked and scared, not at all calm or confident.
Though if it isn't the black rock would be interesting to see Richard in ancient Egyptian times, a slave, to a daemon (Smokie), freed by the Island/Jacob and given eternal life with the obligation of aiding Jacob in ensuring that the evil/daemon is contained /imprisoned on the island.
Would be interesting but I still have the feeling that Smokie and richard don't have that much history together and Black Rock is more likely.
I still don't like the island as a prison theory 100% as I don't think it explains enough the purpose of humans and the growth of humans that Jacob and Smokie were discussing the season 5 final.
Maybe its more of a game, more of a test for humans, to see whether we are ready. And maybe Smokie is there not as the big evil, but is imprisoned there to aid the "entity", the island in testing humans. Smokie is a convict basically. -
... but I hate Lost with every fiber of my being.
If it's a character piece, then there was never a need to literally "bring the island into the story". It's like the writers are smuggling Mushrooms out of Bali and chew a couple before writing an episode.
Others; Dharma; Dimisional Rifts; Cain & Able ... this is truly some epically bad shit folks.
It's almost as though the ONLY reason so many people keep watching is to see if all their theories are right and/or to see how 6 years of clusterfuck is wrapped up. -
Damon debunked the Valenzetti Equation on the last podcast, saying it isnt canon.
In reality #2, the island has sunk, which would mean, jacob is dead before he can visit all of the LOSTies he visited. -
Then dont. Please go watch American Idol and Heroes.
If it's a character piece, then there was never a need to literally "bring the island into the story"
Well, they brought the characters to the Island.
Now get the fuck outta our talkback fuckface. (Ahhh. 1st fuckface of the day) -
I don't usually, but I thought I better watch that again - and the whole time I kept thinkin about Land of the Lost..
you know, where they're TRAPPED in some strange dimension and the bad guy wants to break free from his prison so he runs a confidence game on the protags...
I'm totally with you rb!
the island doesn't need a "Protector" - that was just a little bit of bullshit from Smocke there - it needs a WARDEN
it makes sense - especially when you ask that question "where are we?" - the island is hard to find and MUCH MUCH HARDER to get away from! Smocke doesn't want to go "home" - he wants TO ESCAPE!
also those ashes got me thinkin - notice how Jacob's ashes are WHITE and the ashes that keep Smokey at bay are more kinda grey - darker - you know, BLACK...
What if any old ash wont do, but it has to be the ash from the original body of the Man In Black? (woman?)
so is Jacob a smoke monster too now?
was that him in the little boy suit?
btw Crow in case you're still interested, you need to upgrade that slomo to a freeze-frame - there's a whole bunch of names I made out before I lost interest:
LITTLETON (you already saw)
MATTINGLEY
LEWIS
LY
ALMEIDA
REYNOLDS
TROUPE
DARGAS(?) (BARGAS?)
AGULLA (I think- it's a little obscured)
GOLDSTEIN
O'TOOLE
**FARADAY** (don't remember Jacob visiting him?)
SULLIVAN
ELLERSEN(?) (EMERSEN? LARSEN?)
GRANT
JONES
JEAN
DOMINGO... and so on... -
Feb 17, 2010 10:53:10 PM CST
Apparently Richard Alpert, Nestor Carbonell, was ridiculed...
by d.vader
My girlfriend saw/heard some special on LOST and the actors and she says they revealed that the makeup team actually tries to lessen Nestor's eyelinerish eyes, and that when he was young and in school, Nestor was pestered and made fun of for them.
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http://bit.ly/932f8I Only possible slight clarification is Dogen really meaning "Possessed" instead of claimed...
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Feb 17, 2010 10:56:26 PM CST
Weird, cuz he previously said explicitly that it is canon.
by royston lodge
In this interview: http://tinyurl.com/yw5gmc
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Is "For you to come with me." "What do you want?" "What I've always wanted. For you to come with me." Think there's sincerity there? That MiB is jealous Alpert picked Jacob over him? Is there something special about Alpert other than his immortality? Or does MiB just need someone else to leave the Island with him; he can't do it alone?
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Well, now we know a bit more about the numbers and the rules. This also went a long way towards explaining the relationship between Widmore and Ben...obviously both were candidates to replace Esau or Jacob, as both were aware of the rules and Widmore at least was very clear in stating his ownership. Also, it was refreshing to see Locke finally get over the hump; when he got canned I thought "New reality, same old Locke." Fortunately, he finally grew a pair. Hopefully Jack follows suit.
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I don't think Richard was "scared" so much as just in a hurry - remember Smocke LET HIM GO - he's running AWAY from anything - merely TO the Temple
they been preparin for a long, long time now and shit is going down NOW and he needs to be somewhere else - so yeah maybe a little "desperate" but not "scared" per se...
jus sayin
also Faux, gotta say you're much more interesting when you're theorising and much less when you get all personal, dude - you used to be able to take it on the chin - they just baitin man, but you swallowing their shit hook, line, and all fishing metaphor like... -
Testing humans, weighing their souls, judging them, etc. Because he's given up on humanity and finds far too many bad, corrupt ones than he does good ones. And he believes all this judging is for Jacob's benefit and not his. He's sick of it.
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Author of Bad Twin? The man who got sucked into the engine turbine?? Cool! I couldn't see shit on my tv bc its too damned dark.
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I saw the Valenzi equation above, which I dont know much about. However, if the combination of those folks were so dangerous, would the world not have ended already? They were all kinda stuck on an Island together for months, not to mention the fact that everyone from the Others to Smokie wants them on the Island together. What was up with Mikhail telling Kate she wasn't on the list? And did you see the amount of names crossed out? Perhaps Jacob has been watching certain bloodlines, checking each generation for his certain five.
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but you probably figured that out already
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Listening to the podcast I think they debunk it in. Be there with the link in a sec
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Smokie as a disgruntled employee, he would be logging on to the internet and updating his twitter if he could:
"today I finally took down mr goody two shoes, still stuck as this bald old guy, really should have waited for Juliet, they are some nice cans!!, LOL" -
I think someone above said there's a list on Lostpedia? Wouldn't surprise me - they had the right names next to the numbers by the time I was through watching the episode - tho conspicuously no hyperlink on the name KWON...
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Confusing us with his lies!
Heh heh heh . . . -
I would definitely not try and hate on a theory. I could have swore Damon said that. Ah well. However, Jacob sunk with the Island and could have never visited the LOSTies.
The podcast I was listening to was on ABC : http://abc.go.com/shows/lost/podcasts -
He knows Jacob is dead, which according to the rules he plays by should not be possible. Plus he already denied Esau's allegiance, apparently not for the first time. In short, for the first time in our time with Richard, he seems to be on the same plane of knowlege as some of the more normal folk. Also, if Jacob and Esau are there to judge, does t not make sense to have a tiebreaker? Maybe that is what Esau means when he asks Richard to side with him.
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-and then back into Locke again - only reason I can think of why he's now stuck in Locke form is that Jacob is dead
maybe he does indeed lose some powers because of that?
again wit the rules! DON'T TELL ME WHAT I CAN'T DO! except you're right, of course; I can't take no bush walkabout; that's just stupid; I dunno what I was thinking; can I interest you in a set of steak knives? -
Have this image of him mixing so so many drugs like Hunter S Thompson, and as a result his train of thought is mixed with some really random stuff.
Its all usually fun reading, and think some people take him far too seriously
Its interesting that even on something as impersonal as a tb,with completely fictious names (for the most part - i.e. pa is an exception), we still take offence at things said by others, we still let it bother us.
We made up this concept of "adult", but really whether you are 14, or 64 you are still a kid, you may just be a kid with more years of experience. -
... I assume that means she thinks Jacob's ashes will keep Smokie at bay.
Does that mean that the ashes which have kept smokie at bay in the past are the ashes of someone else who had died? Whose ashes are they?
If Jacob was looking to recruit his replacement, who is to say that Jacob wasn't actually someone else's replacement?
Maybe the ashes we've seen in past episodes belonged to Jacob's predecessor.
If true, does that mean that Esau also had a predecessor?
If true, just how many bodies have Jacob and Esau had over the years? -
Good catch? Really? It's almost a year later man.
Here's the previous post:
We've BEEN knowing that. And it was discussed in the TB already. We called it The day of that episode in this TB.
>>MIB made Ben think he was forgiven, but then used Alex to get Ben to ultimately do MIB's bidding. His gola, killing Jacob.
Wonder if it was a spiritual thing, like, Locke, as leader of the others, if he wanted, could kill Jacob. (If there werent time flashes)
Locke dies, and without anyone knowing, Ben is the actual leader by way of default. So he was able to trick Ben; maybe thats the loophole.<< -
Not sure if this has been pointed out but Jacob's looking for someone to replace him is analogous to Desmond being in the hatch pushing the button and waiting for someone to come replace him. Not sure if that is an on purpose symmetry in the plot which means something or not.
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you've put me in my place toughguyrizzo
... and superb catch on the fact that not liking Lost illustrates an undeniable affinity for Idol & Heroes.
kudos sir! -
Flocke walking Sawyer around on a mysterious quest reminds me of Locke leading barefoot Sawyer around on a mysterious quest to kill "Ben"
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It provided enough clues to keep me interested, unlike last week's episode.
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a certain amount of time has passed, say, sunrise to sunset, etc. In other words, all his other masquerades were always for sheer moments of time, and never continuous hours, unbroken
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Only took you an hour to notice.
See you wouldnt find me on a Heroes talkback...waiiiiit.
Cause If think a show sucks, I dont waste my time. You showing up, well...you did it to yourself.
Are the line breaks helping you read and follow better?
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is he cool with his dad's chosen profession, or does ALT-Sawyer do something else? Does that mean Ford's parents are still alive? What the hell was he doing in Australia?
we've seen ALT-Ben and ALT-Ethan - is there an ALT-Jacob? He could leave the island, remember, even if Smokey couldn't... Smokey doesn't like water, right? which would go a long way to explaining why he needs someone TO TAKE HIM off the island - a pilot or someone who knows how to drive a sub - any kind of boat really, but they seem to have a habit of blowing up or otherwise becoming unseaworthy...
anyway, point being if the island is sunken in ALT then either MIB is done with and Jacob can go-
whoah! what if SMOKEY is the JAILER and JACOB is the PRISONER - but he can't just kill him and go home, Jacob has to be properly...
ahh fuck it
I'm just gonna let the ALT stuff unfold - it's too early to tell what's going on there... Slow Burn and all -
"Two players. Two sides. One is light. One is dark." -- John Locke, Season 1More and more, I'm beginning to believe that LOST all comes down to that one scene when Locke explains the game of Backgammon to Walt. My tentative theory being this:There are two players on the island: Jacob and Smokie/MIB. One is apparently light and the other is clearly dark (most likely they are representative of good and evil). They have acquired "pieces" in the form of the passengers of Oceanic 815 and they have set a board of events in the interest of their sides. The purpose?The island is a scale - a place where the balance between light and dark is maintained. Jacob and Smokie/MIB are the current personifications of this struggle. And as we have been told, there are set rules which govern this struggle and each "player" is bound by them. Should the balance of the island be tipped in a certain direction (cue the "inside joke" scene with the scale and rocks), then the consequences could reach beyond the limitations of the island. I suppose any number of end-of-the-world-type scenarios could apply.As of right now, I'm thinking that Jacob and Smokie/MIB are not the first to be in their situation (this could change...perhaps theirs is an eternal struggle). Whatever circumstances brought them to the present, it's clear that the years have worn on Smokie/MIB. And in his effort to obtain freedom (from ???), he has finally found the necessary loop-hole with the killing of Jacob. As a result, the balance of the scale of the island is now been tipped in the favor of the dark side.Now that we're hearing talk of "candidates" and "recruiting", it would seem that the pieces are once again being moved to further the goals of the other side. And while Smokie/MIB wants to "go home", it is likely that he must first choose a replacement (or replacements?) in order to maintain the cosmic balance in his and Jacob's absence.What do you think? Any thoughts? Considering what we know of the island's inhabitants, could any of them be recruited for such a purpose?Random thoughts:1) The ash used against Smokie may, in fact, be the ashes of former "players" of the island. As we've seen, such a substance (depending on that former player's side) would act as a deterrent; much like holy water or garlic on a vampire. At some point, Jacob's ashes could be crucial and Ilana's interest in them is, no doubt, significant.2) I would love to see Sawyer con ol' Smokie/MIB. Pulling a long con on the show's now revealed antagonist would be pretty sweet.3) I still believe the real John Locke will return.
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I think you and I may be on the same page.
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I first thought he was a member of the black rock because he didn't age, so then that would mean he probably came from something old.. the black rock at that time, in s3 "man behind the curtain" seemed like the oldest item on the island. Also, his outfit and long hair made me thingk he looked like a 19th century pirate,.... and then when we saw Jacob in the pirate puffy shirt flash when Locke saw him, that kinda sealed the deal for me. Recently there was the scene of Richard playing with a replica of the Black Rock inside the bottle when Flocke walked up
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MIB cannot change form because of Jacobs death. Or something to that effect.
But the question I wanna know, if he did take Claire's form, then how did Claire originally survive the explosion? What made her leave Aaron? -
I think she was claimed
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But your complaints and comments do imply that you don't enjoy or like anything that is not simple, not straight forward.
If its a show that you have watched from the start, you aren't enjoying the payoffs, or you dont like the direction, talk about that, talk about what you would prefer to see.
But starting off saying something like "....but I hate Lost with every fiber of my being", paints a picture pretty early on and first impressions do count. -
what the fuck are you talking about? the episode where we find out he can no longer change from Locke's form was YESTERDAY - and it's taken me this long to get to the bottom of the talkbacks and somewhere along the way I saw a post which pointed out he'd changed from Locke form at least once, when he turned into Alex
I call that a good catch
(and what's this "we" shit?)
I was talking about Smokey changing form - I'm not quite sure what you're talking about - seems to me, what we have here is failure to communicate...
anyhow, have a Mexican Coke and smile -
MIB turning into Alex. If you meant you caught it on this TB, you didnt specify.
This is old news. Just like Ben summoning MIB and then Locke coming out of the jungle. DEAD GIVEAWAY.
"we" are the talkbackers who caught it last year. What else would it mean?
And Ilanya made it clear that Jacob dying is the reason MIB cannot change form any longer.
I'll have a Guinness and do whatever the fuck I want. Dont tell me what I can...er, can do, dammnit. -
See, I'm not digging that "claimed" shit. I wanna be able to speculate but after 6.4, It's a bit tough.
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In the picture behind Locke at the temp agency or just some dude with similar hair? Forgive me if this has been discussed to death but there is too much troll talk/response form my taste in the above posts to read it all...
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Absolutely not. Its locke n his dad and locke n helen
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should be strung up by their necks and all of their children and family members. Their garbage series needs to be replaced by better shows written by better writers. Go away cunts.
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Oh boy. I've never generated hate like that. Oh shit. lol
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All she said was "he can't do that anymore" which doesn't say if Jacob's death had anything to do with him being able to change. All that confirms is that Smokey used to be able to change into different people, now he can't. There's no direct correlation between Jacob's death = not being able to transform. All she said was that he can't transform. Jacob's death wasn't mentioned anywhere.
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So, he COULD change when Jacob was alive (Alex) But after...he cant.
So, what gives then? Have you been reading anything about MIB loosing some powers now that Jacob is dead? -
Feb 18, 2010 12:45:33 AM CST
That's our conjecture, it's not what they said on the show
by tall_boy66
You're using the term "confirm" that Ilana said that because of Jacob's death Smoke Monster can't transform into anyone else anymore. She didn't say that. All she said was that he can't transform anymore. It's the middle gap that hasn't been filled in. Yes, she confirmed that he can't transform. No, she did not confirm that the REASON Smokey can't transform is because Jacob is dead.
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For that kinda explanation. I bet you wanna know about the new washer & dryer in the hatch right?
Shits not entirely spelled out here due the fact that they want us to use our imagination. -
This tb was off to such a great start pre-ep, then the flurry of comments during, then a days worth after. Actually civilized discussion of the show we're fans of. I slept through Wednesday, logged in to catch up and the thing had turned into an alternative lifestyle chatroom debating the two main topics my daddy always told me to never talk to strangers about: p*l*t*cs and religion. I was afraid the trolls were running the asylum and I've have to just skip it til next week. But then the night shift swept in and actually restored balance and civilized discourse and started discussing Lost again. Bravo. Who is that boy, why can't NonLocke/Smokey change shape, what is the significance of the FlashSides. Solid questions that relate to the show, even if we lack enough information to formulate a clear hypothesis.Though I did assume it was clear that NonLocke's lack of changing ability directly related to Jacob's death. But hey, I could be wrong.Fun to see characters act "out of character". After years of being the mysterious guy who knows stuff, Richard really seems freaked out over Jacob's death. And I LOVED Ben's epitaph at Locke's grave. "A better man than I'll ever be, I'm sorry I murdered him."
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Now we know that the numbers were scratched or written on the ceiling of a cave at the bottom of a cliff overlooking the ocean. Names of passengers on flight 815, with numbers that happened to correspond to their seat numbers o the flight.Were they written by Jacob or Nemesis? And were they written before or after Flight 815? They could be like ancient cave paintings, been there for centuries as a prophecy. Or they might be a magick incantation that summoned those people to the Island. Somehow the Dharma Initiative shose six of those numbers to inscribe on a hatch door, perhaps because they were the numbers that had to be input into a computer to contain the Island's freakish electromagnetic energies. Those numbers were broadcast - were they part of Rousseaus distress signal? - heard by a radio operator who went insane and was committed to the same institution Hugo was at, Hurley heard the man repeating the numbers and he played the lottery and won, then bought Mr. Cluck's in one reality and both Mr. Cluck's and the paper company where Locke worked in the other.Many other appearances of The Numbers, on cheerleader uniforms, room doors, clock, even the mileage on Hugo's car, may have just been coincidence, but hopefully these main appearances - as the numbers to be input, on the hatch, as the Lottery numbers, as the seat numbers and on the cave ceiling... We can say that this episode told us a LOT about the numbers but we certainly need to know more.
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Was the best. awesome.
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How does Sawyer climb up out of the cave? Didn't the ladder fail?
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Why of course, since JJ is a "JEW" as opposed to ya know using the proper and less offensive form 'Jewish' (bet you call people from Japan 'JAPS' don't ya)
Why don't ya bring up your Talmudic scholarship at
ישיבה this week. But heh, thanks. Big thumbs Up!
In the mean time, you don't like me and I don't respect you. I snarked you and you snarked me. The scales are balanced. Let's leave it that way, let each be and let the nice people talk. -
Really? Beyond the racism, sexism, homophobia, wishes of death, genocidal day dreams, implied pedophelia, necrophelia, hell, all the phelias.. Here?
That? That was the most offensive post you have ever read? Really? A story of a great man dying piece by piece, day by day, before my eyes... was the most offensive post you have ever read in your ..what was it 6 years here. right.
Ok. two possibilities. You are a BlaLiar or BlaStupid? Fielder's choice, babe...come back in six more years.
In the mean time, you don't like me and I don't respect you. I snarked you and you snarked me. The scales are balanced. Let's leave it that way, let each be and let the nice people talk. -
uhmmm...Wubba who? I did what? WTF? ..welp, that beats my crazy drunk.
Rosa Saks is still a girls name.
In the mean time, you don't like me and I don't respect you. I snarked you and you snarked me. The scales are balanced. Let's leave it that way, let each be and let the nice people talk. -
I apologize for any offense given. But, Geezy Greasy, you are too easy. You guys are predictable. I mean... I never imagined you would take that bait so easily. Thanks. And thanks for confirming my theory, now proof, that you are childy wee cowardly compassionless ..well. boys.
See the part about showing your true character wasn't what ya typed about me.. MacAlzheimers. I don't care about that.. kids, really, that is like A on list of A to Zed that I have been called worse. No, dummies. The display of your character was knowing you'd be showing your bum...clowning yourself ..in how you would bounce back and belittle. You had every opportunity, upon reading that true testimonial, to, no matter how *sniff* 'mean' *sniff* you think I have been or how gigantic of an asshole you think me to be... you had a chance to offer commiseration to a fellow human being (not me) in dire straits and delicate situation ..But. You couldn't even display any tiny tiny bit of empathy for an old man dying. wow. sad.
Nope. Zoooom! like verminous animals. All you saw was a perceived weakness to bite down on. hard. Which, I am certain you are well versed in, B-tard. Biting down on it. Nope, like pigs to slop.. you couldn't betray your nature. No simple kind thought...and then type to me "You're an asshole" or crack dumb about my age, or wish me to have a stroke... *sigh* Welp, again, thanks for being so ..*snort* ...easy, boys.
Boys. Lesson. It is called drawing fire... It's been tedious to feature who is friend or foe in the LOST talk backs this season. So. I gave you a target and watched for the muzzle flash. Drawing fire, *snicker* better here than there.. to expose the enemy and their position. Thanks for so easily giving away your cover and concealment. Thanks.
In the mean time, you don't like me and I don't respect you. I snarked you and you snarked me. The scales are balanced. Let's leave it that way, let each be and let the nice people talk.
Oh, you do realize you are.. have, been watching 5 seasons and change of Saviour Survivor, right? Oh Shit...
..Did I type that out loud.
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Ironically, in most of the languages of the world it is spelled:
BillboeFett
C'MON man...admit it. That was funny. You walked into that, baby. -
I guess we just keep adding to the long list of books you know the titles of but haven't read. Pull your weak shit with somebody else. I was talking about LOST. I've noticed you rarely do that. Fuck wit.
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I will be addressing you as Captain Manwaring from now on.
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Good job on missing my "Of Mice And Men" allusion, last week...
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In the mean time, you don't like me and I don't respect you. I snarked you and you snarked me. The scales are balanced. Let's leave it that way, let each be and let the nice people talk.
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So not only is your ego fragile when your teeth get kicked, you're a last word freak too, who has to tell everyone how it is. Fuck you buddy. I'm here to talk about LOST. Why the fuck are you here, you Dull Bugger?
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MacFaux white und rosasaks black? Or vice versa? AICN Talkbackgammon - gotta luv it!
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So she and Bram belonged to Widmore and Jacob - so it seems Widmore is on the side of the Temple Others. What does it make the "claimed ones"? The "Believe it or not - We're actually the Good Guys" as Ben told earlier?
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I thought Bram told Miles not to get recruited by Widmore, because the shadow of the statue crew were the good guys? Iliana-Lucia knows about the temple. I think Widmore must have had some bargain with MIB. The story of how Widmore left the island is going to be important, isn't it.
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This pair have history from their time off the island, then again in 1977. So it's interesting that both have now been revived in the Temple water. I presume that the adult Ben we know was always taken to the temple to heal his wounds, although with alternate realities who can be sure - Ben seems most changed in the LA X continuum, a totally different life in different circumstances. But Sun was shown a picture in 2007 of the other Losties in 1977, so I guess it must always have been thus. Which begs the question, whether Ben is claimed or not, because it seems he's been kept in the dark about a lot of the island mythology. I guess we will get to the significance of the water being cloudy. It could bring a neat reversal of the dynamic between Sayid and Ben - who seems to be undergoing something of a crisis of faith - the master manipulator having betrayed Jacob, whom he dearly wanted to recognise him, only because he himself was deceived by Jacob's enemy. At the weird funeral, did we see honest regret from Ben that he betrayed Locke? Is this the start of his redemption, just as Sayid takes a dark turn? Also, having lost Alex, he has yet to find out that Juliet died. Ben has had some interesting pairings. Locke is gone for now, but for a long time Ben was equally paired in opposition to Jack. Then we got to Widmore, who presumably must come back into the island story this year. Widmore and Ben seemed to be equal rivals, and yet now I wonder if Widmore knows more than Ben does, as Ben seems to have been used as a dupe. But then, maybe Widmore was too, and that's why he ended up off the island. But the point being, there are a number of character pairings which we'll surely return to this year, and this claimed business looks like it's going to be a big factor.
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seems to me I recall being on these here talkbacks a year ago, discussing all this and more - and the year before that, and so on..
the communication is still a little broke-
the "catch" I was referring to was that, according to Ilana Smokey can no longer shapeshift (we know not why) BUT - as someone pointed out (rosasaks in fact) earlier on this talkback - he took Alex's form just a few episodes ago SO THIS LIMITATION IS A NEW THING...
from there I wondered if this limitation is due to Jacob dying - which is one of just a few things that have changed for Smokey since he convinced Ben that Alex would hunt him down and do nasty things to him if he didn't do exactly everything that Locke told him to do...
dammit, I think that's getting complicated! is this making sense?
btw deadkitten, the numbers aren't seat assignments - that was among one of the very first theories way back in S1... Lostpedia mentions the seat assignments on the numbers page, I believe (prob'ly has for a few years now) and Jack's 23D is the only one that's even close
make of that what you will -
Yes that's what I'm thinking too, the only on screen development that could explain Smokey being LOCKED is presumably Jacob's body turning to ash. If Jacob has taken new form as this child, and MIB is now Locke... perhaps this is the window where it's possible for new people to take over the island roles, or for MIB to go home, or whatever. But it begs the question how long does this phase last, how can Jacob get his powers back, will that also make Smokey more powerful again, etc.
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Despite the first part of the post, I agree. Scale's balanced. Meantime, if I can be totally honest, I can't remember what started this argument in the first place.
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continuing my previous thoughts:
MIB can assume the identity of any person that was dead before they arrived at the island....Christitan, Eko's brother, now Locke. MIB was the one in the cabin, not Jacob. Iilayana says Jacob hadn't lived there in a long time. The ring of ash held him in until someone broke it (Hurley?).
Jacob was NEVER seen on the island (Ben only heard him...and was it him or MIB?)...until AFTER Aaron was born. Either Jacob can inhabit the full timeline of a child born on the island, or he IS Aaron. -
Are Jacob and MIB similar entities? If so, perhaps Jacob was "fixed" as the blonde man we've seen, but in death becomes nebulous again, causing MIB to lose the ability to choose different forms, becoming trapped as Locke? Maybe before, Jacob could take only one form, he was trapped as that persona, but he wasn't trapped on the island and could leave, as Jacob. Now, Jacob can take many forms, but is trapped on the island. MIB is trapped as Locke, but is free to leave the island - as Locke? And the cabin was some sort of device for curtailing the entities' ability to roam? Just some speculation with A LOT of holes in it. I'm still puzzled what some of the smokey manifestations were if something was trapped in the cabin for the early part of the show. Christian as a third entity? The fact that six numbers seem to be important was what made me suggest we're not just looking at two island powers, those are just the pairing locked in this game. Smokey just told us that it is an option to do nothing, and see what happens. So maybe they have contemporaries who did just that. And maybe they have contemporaries who took the third option - which was to leave. Ah, could Christian have had island powers, left, but now returns to the island on 815 to get back in the game? I was trying to talk about lots of this stuff in lengthy posts upthread, before being informed that it was retarded to want to do so. Ho hum.
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We did see Jacob on the island at the time of the Black Rock sailing past. And some of his visits to touch the Losties back in the USA were prior to Claire being pregnant. But I do think Jacob is Aaron, somehow sent back in time. That was another purpose of those visual reminders - to make sure we clocked the similarity of the kid and Jacob. The kid seems older than he would have aged in three years. But then Tall Walt grew up too fast, LOL. Perhaps Walt and Aaron were somehow candidates to fill some other island function? Or time flashes are involved. Or, crazy, that kid is from the LA X time line. I wonder if Aaron will have a new father in that new scheme of things. Interesting the generations of Shepherds. Christian, Jack, Claire, Aaron. Didn't we see great grand-pa Shepherd in a flash-forward? That might kibosh Christian being really old, I guess. The names on the cave - so ambiguity over which Kwan, making us think of the daughter. But also ambiguity over which Shepherd, and which Littleton has been crossed out? I'm sure there's plenty of stuff that's not been put on screen yet, so it's not something we'll piece together in clue form.
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Some of the crossed out names in the cave will show up in the Black Rock back story?
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I know we saw him then and in flashbacks, but none of the island inhabitants saw him before then. The flashbacks could be flashfowards for the aaron entity.
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Also since Ben thought Jacob was in the cabin, but Ilyana said he hadn;'t been there in a long time, I think Ben was actually being manipulated by MIB most of the time...pretending to be Jacob. Ben's version of the other thought they were doing good by taking the children and protecting them in the village, but what they were actually doing is somehow preventing the true Jacob from being able to regenerate or take over a child....this was all MIB manipulating Ben. I guess somehow this was to weaken Jacob to help facilitate his death...and in turn the chance for MIBs freedom.
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I really don't think Christian was ever alive other than another guise of MIB manipulating along the way.
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I can't remember exactly when MIB appeared as Alex, but was it before Ilana and her crew find the cabin empty and the circle of ash broken?? If so maybe up to that point maybe MIB was imprisoned in the cabin and could only appear out of the cabin as deceased people. Once he was released from the cabin, maybe THATS what changed and made him be locked into this current image and not necessarily Jacobs death.
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or thinking more on that train of thought...maybe MIB knows that Jacob was born a child on the island/born there, but doesn't know when. MIB pretends hes Jacob and manipulates Ben into killing off the Darhma people and taking over as the others...also from then on he also has Ben take all the children and someone makes everyone die or lose their children if they conceive on the island. Trying to prevent Jacob from even being born...a loophole. Jacob is Aaron...who grows up on the island...can control the island in time and space for whatever purpose....so all the "older" Jacobs we see throughout time are Aaron's flashforwards.
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They may be fighting on the side of Jacob, butv they have been ruthless and murderous. Look at Ben, the asshole from It's always Sunny, and the two guys who were going to rape the chick from 24.
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Wow this TB got ugly!
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It's probably to do with the fact that he offed Jacob, or had Jacob offed. Or just the fact that Jacob died. That's my guess.I may as well say right now, if I'm correct with any of my guesses or theories, I am going to make a big deal about it when the time comes.
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Sorry, I missed that. Is that in the alternate universe created by the nuke detonation?
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was that Smokey pleading with Locke to "help me!" or Jacob?
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I think it's going to have something to do with a third party and not Jacob at all. There definitely seems to be some other force at work beside just Jacob and MIB.
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I think it was Smokey...the cabin was surrounded by ash...i think keeping him inside.
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Not only keeps Terry O'Quinn employed, it "explains" why Smokey appears to tempt Sawyer as Locke, and not, for instance, Juliet.... Given rumours of lots of old characters reappearing in the run up to the finale, I'd be amazed if the island manifestations don't get a new lease of life sooner rather than later. I don't know if that involves resurrecting dead Locke, or establishing more than one smoke monster, or what though. What's next week's episode all about? The preview didn't seem to show much. Didn't see John Terry listed (perhaps he's the one sex texting Vernon Kay and Cheryl Cole!)so does that mean no Christian? Cause I'm assuming it must be time for the funeral service in LA X world. And why have I got a nasty feeling we won't see Locke and Sawyer now for two or three weeks?
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don't think its so black and white in regards to the Others.
yes they have killed a lot, but which army/group of people hasn't killed a lot in defence or protection of something that they deem is important to them, most of the Losties have. -
Good to see you guys. Hell of a ride we're on, huh. Hope you're enjoying the trip.
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The missing coffin is going to be the catalyst for Jack asking some serious questions about his dead father in LA, perhaps also precipitated by Claire or her mother turning up at the funeral? And this ought to coincide with Claire capturing Jin, and the Temple others telling Jack more about what happened to his father and sister, as well as what being claimed is going to do to Sayid. Now THAT ought to be a satisfying episode. Hopefully more about Jacob and Aaron too. Oh, and Claire knows about the Cabin, doesn't she. Hmmm. Could she have been using that too? Not really sure what to expect next week. Anyone have guesses what will be in the episode? I admit I do find it frustrating when the island story splits into groups of characters and we only see one each week at a time. Suppose this was mitigated by Sawyer bridging this week and last. So next week ought to see Richard or Ben/Ilyana/Sun/Frank arrive at the temple? Just to keep things fluid. Or might Locke/Sawyer need something from the temple? It might be a waste not to have Locke and Jack meet before Jack gets the whole story - Jack believed Locke would be resurrected on the island, didn't he? And this would feed into his hopes for his father. So he needs to see Locke and wrestle with whether Locke is really Locke. And the Temple others test with the ash and electricity. Hmmm. So will Locke go AWOL for a bit, or try and stroll into the temple before anyone else can get there? Either way, I think Jack needs to not be around to hear certain information about Locke/MIB/Smokey just yet. Doesn't the one line TV guide synopsis say something about Hurley taking Jack on a mission? So while they do that, everything goes to shit at the temple?
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its in the bible....
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Of course the writers had to do this I suppose. Otherwise, how would anybody know that anybody is who they say they are? There might be a time and place to do that later, for short while, but for the bulk of the season it would be very confusing. It's enough to have the characters who don't know about Locke wrestle with that. Sawyer saw it wasn't Locke straight away. Will Kate, Jack, Hurley etc be able to do the same? We've been told that Locke is recruiting, and we've been told that the defences at the temple are to keep him out. And the ash/electricity may be necessary because the temple doesn't know what form MIB will take? So does that suggest we need some other characters for them to be paranoid about, while the Losties are being paranoid about Locke?
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She went missing, was later seen in the cabin, is acting weird now. It seems likely she's the answer to the who let MiB out puzzle piece.
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taking the girls to the park while we have 10 minutes of sunshine.
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Smokey has been around and taking human form since seasons 1 and 2. How could it have been him trapped in the cabin?
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Yes,
But
(1) A number of the other have clearly committed acts that are not justifiable
(2) While they may not have all the answers, they are very secretive about what they do know. The Losties have killed out of fear and ignorance, something the Others could have reduced had they given them what information they did have.
(3) Any violence perpetrated against the Others has been their own fault. -
I don't know what happened to the rest of my post, but my point was the Others could have shared information. There are also a number who have committed vindictive or otherwise immoral acts. Any violence perpetrated by the Losties has been due to their fear and ignorance, a large amount of which was created by the Others.
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Remember, when he grabbed the guy and dragged him underground.
I believe that took place before the ash around the cabin was disturbed. -
When Sayid lit that campfire that created the pillar of black smoke, Smokey saw it and thought it was a girl smoke monster. He cleaned himself up, splashed some cologne on, and went out for a booty call. When he discovered it was just a campfire, it pissed him off.
Heh heh heh . . . -
Moreover, if you want to compare them to soldiers they act more like terrorists. Not saying they are all bad, or that generally Jacob's side might be the side of right. Just saying they are definitely not good guys. Not the same as saying they are bad guys.
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Smokey was in the space between the internal and external walls, but I do not believe MIB was in the temple.
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In a different TB, someone mentioned that Korean wives don't take their husbands' family name. If the Lost writers know this, then Kwon probably refer to Jin.
Which would mean that all of the final six candidates are male.
The Numbers sure are sexist. -
How's this? When all this started off, when 815 crashed, Smokey was trapped in the cabin. This had been somehow arranged, presumably by Jacob, with the convenient circle of ash (is that ash the cremated body of the MiB's true form, that of his 'loved one', or Jacob's last incarnation? I don't know, but I'd like to think it's one of those).
Now, during this time, the Smoke Monster is shown to be controllable by Ben and The Others, it's other appearances also don't seem random; there is a 'judge/jury' vibe that we all saw in ole' Smokey, examining Eko, trying to take Locke, etc. Could this mean at this time he was also able to be controlled by Jacob? Could it be that the MiB himself was 'claimed' by Jacob?
Perhaps the idea of 'trapped' is metaphorical, or like a specialty 'penalty box'. He can still be used by the other side for their purposes in the game, but can't interact of his own volition for his own 'dark' purposes.
And could the 'dead' manifestations MiB creates be his 'loophole' in that rule? It's very important people are buried on The Island. The Others had to bury their dead, they make a point of people being buried, even to this newest episode with John Locke. So who are we pretty sure Smokey has been over the course of the show? Christian Sheperd--body missing out of coffin, never buried. Yemi--body in the bi-plane, but never buried (but eventually BURNED, and never seen again). Locke--body ripening in a box, but definately not buried. But they all have one thing in common--they're all on The Island, and within MiB's range. I'd even go so far as to include Dave in that, since it would also be the perfect 'loophole'--can't be buried, not real.
Still, these interactions could only further his machinations without any physical force. Until the undead body of Christian Shepard was Claimed, and led Claie through the woods to break the circle of ash. Now Smokey can do whatever he wants for his own plans. He's no longer being controlled. Yikes! -
Maybe he was trying to get at the Temple Others, but they were keeping him at bay with their own Magic Ash.
Now, more than ever, this show needs a Bruce Campbell cameo. Ash. Get it? Get it?!
Damn, I'm hilarious. -
Yeah but if Smokey is female, we can forgive Jacob for being a little sexist.
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... the ash circle that goes around the island is pretty fuckin' huge.
That's a lot of ash.
Surely, all that ash cannot come from just one body... -
...is just the die-hard GOPers way of excusing his statements that go beyond the pale. He has never once been held to account by his own political ilk and they've never demanded an apology or retraction from him.Just look at Dick Cheney - he all but confessed to war crimes on a Sunday morning talkshow and there hasn't been a peep from the overall GOP. (And they appear to have no problem with Cheney lackey, Marc Thiessen (a former fucking speechwriter for Pete's sake!), making the national rounds advocating torture and libeling the current administration's performance on the terror front.)The lesson being, of course, that they will always excuse their own in the interest of party over country. That is the biggest problem with the GOP and this current wayward, leaderless conservative movement.
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Feb 18, 2010 10:01:00 AM CST
And now back to our regularly scheduled LOST Talkback...
by mr. nice gaius
...already in progress.
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Wait I always thought your name was Rbog, not second r. Am I mistaken or did you get banned?
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I am Jew. The word 'Jew' is a noun, denoting the singular of the word 'Jewish'. JJ Abrams is a Jew he is not a 'Jewish'. If you choose to revel in the pejorative uses of the word, that is your issue. Not mine. Adjectival uses of the word like 'Jew Doctor' would be inappropriate and borderline offensive. Yeah, I don't like or respect know-nothing trolls like you who seem hellbent on showing the world your/their ignorance at every opportunity. So, Bubbie (that is a Yididsh word of endearment which I am using in an obvious sarcastic manner vis-a-vis you) if you stay out of my way, I will avoid you like the plague you carry.
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Feb 18, 2010 10:15:36 AM CST
'I am a Jew ' - it should have read
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
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That is definately a dark/black spider on dead John Locke's head before Frank throws the tarp over him. It scuttles away quickly, and is clearly a spider. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
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Mikhail and Mrs Klugh were willing to die just to keep our survivors, two of which were our candidates (Locke and Sayid, from capturing them and learning any answers about anything. Why? That makes no sense. lots of the things the others have done make no sense knowing what we know now. They clearly know little to nothing about their real purpose on the island or what "the game" is really all about, so why were they tormenting our survivors and Mikhail was ready to shoot Klugh to death and then himself in the head. Some of these occurances will never be justifiable in my opinion. The Others have been inconsistent to say the least throughout the show. I don't know if the writers can come up with something that makes their secrecy/violence make sense while at the same time maintaining the fact that they seem to know absolutely nothing. And that is just one occurance off the top of my head from S3.
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Really? Teaching Jews how they should refer to themselves? What's next sweetie? You gonna put in an appearance at the Apollo and do the same there?
Spin all you want, MacFaux News. You weren't 'drawing fire'. You pulled a Gary Hart and dared people to search you out. And now you cry because people did. You lost it and got owned. And that ain't no Monkey Business.
I took my screen name, my ONE screen name, from a goofy, geeky sci-fi movie that I have fondness for. No message intended. Did you use the Google (that is what the kids call it right, the Google?) and search out some of my other conversations online? Did you catch the fact that I was Jewish from one of the Mel Gibson talkbacks? Is that why you have been inserting 'nazi' into every accusation against me since I started giving you shit? Would Hurley think that was 'cool', AJ?Daddy's out of bounds, but nazi's are okay?What would Plato do, Otto?I'll give you a little honesty, MacFisthsticks, I've been called the Jewish Nazi. Why? Because I am one mean bastard. Life has whetted me down to a fine edge. Don't like it? Can't handle it? Run back to your corner with your tail between your legs and we will try to ignore your whimpering.Shouldn't you be spending time finding a ten year old Malaysian boy and teaching him how you like your ass wiped? Some medical conditions are hereditary and I don't sense that you have spawned.
I love Lost, by the way. -
Found it on a friend's Facebook link. Made me laugh. Great quotes too.
http://pics.livejournal.com/ack_attack/pic/00c05fs7 -
I like the first version better. I am Jew. Hear me roar.
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... and Esau is a big, fat liar, then it makes sense that they don't really know anything.
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Is that they were worried that one of the lostaways could be a vessel for smokey escaping. That would explain their actions better than anything except that upends our sense of what our heroes are candidates for. So I dunno, you guys got anything?
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I thought it was obvious The Others just don't want the LOSTies anywhere near their village or their parts of the Island. They want them isolated on the beach where they will be allowed to live, but its not their Island and they don't have to do shit for them. That was always my impression. Plus, they were probably following orders from Ben. Also, they knew if they started cooperating with the LOSTies, the LOSTies would want to call for help to get off the Island.
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It's not a lot of fun. My recommendation to Macfaux is he lay off the mac-sauce when posting. At least he has an excuse though, which is more than can be said for many trouble-making TBers.
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Good catch on the spider. But somehow, I don't think that's going to ultimately be the cause of Locke's return. We KNOW he's dead and we know how it happened.
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I rewatched it last night and it scuttled sideways like a crab and was all dark, no light markings like the Medusa. I'm about 99.99% sure its a crab.
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And I'm 99.999% sure of that.
That's 0.009% more sure than you.
Cuz I'm awesome. -
I just watched it a couple times, it clearly scuttles forward, but it also could have just been knocked off his head by Lapidus' tarp. I will admit, I do not have the HD-iest of HDs.
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Locke gets murdered by Ben, gets resurrected on the island, but gets bitten immediately by the voodoo spiders, has his likeness stolen by the smoke monster, and gets buried alive. That would be a tough break. They should do it, just so he can dig his way out beyond the grave and have nobody believe him. By the way, the theories about bodies being buried or claimed - those Adam and Eve skeletons were never buried.... Could Christian be the one who trapped Smokey in the cabin? Still not sure what to make of the symmetry of Locke and Christian in coffins in the cargo hold, with the shoes etc. Also, any chance Christian could have time flashed off 815, and that's why Jack couldn't find his body?
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Timeline Question:
I've been pondering the fact that since the timeline split, we now have 2 different timelines that we are following:
1) Chronological time is 3 years ago in series time, when the plane went from Australia to LAX. This is a past timeline (from our viewer perspective) that we are watching unfold.
2) Current Island timeline. This is a little tricky. The bomb goes off but does nothing, leaving our heroes on the island IN THE PAST where Dharma was still digging the ditch to house the wheel etc etc. This was IN THE PAST. Immediately after the failed reset button and bomb detonation, we see the same guys at the same incomplete pit, with the same mess. We see no indication of time moving forward at all. They go to the temple. Sawyer leaves to go back to New Otherton (aka the others' camp). It is abandoned and empty. My question is WHY? If they are still in the past, why is Sawyer going there anyhow? How did, or did he, know the camp would be abandoned? Because now the camp is future Others camp, isn't it? Because the original Dharma accident didn't kill everyone, so what timeline is Sawyer in at this point?
3) Smokey Locke goes to visit Sawyer. But Smokey Locke comes to the Ajira survivors in present timeline. If Smokey visits Sawyer at the camp, does that mean they are in the present timeline now? The past timeline?
Can Smokey go back and forth in time? If so, why is he still stuck as Locke?
Did the Losties go forward in time after the nuke? If so, why didn't they blast forward to a point where Orchid station (I believe that's where they were--the pit...) was complete, instead of a big hole in the ground?
4) Also, can someone refresh me: was the big hole where Juliet killed and from where Hurley and co. drove sawyer to the temple the place where they were digging for the donkey wheel, or was it swan station post explosion?
Thanks for any input. -
Locke's lying on a sandy beach. Where crabs live.
I am somewhat ashamed that I have nothing more to offer to the talkback at this point. -
The Church of Tennents lager damns you all!
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Who else is buried at that sight next to Locke? Boone, Shannon, Charlie, is that right? Where were Libby, Ana Lucia, Eko, Nikki, Paulo etc buried? Are they all there? Do you think we'll get any resolution on why Shannon was seeing visions of Walt? This was around the time Cindy disappeared with the whispers. Could the whispers represent a third island entity with a different agenda to Smokey/Jacob? I'm trying to remember when we've heard them. Some times with the others, sometimes with the monster, sometimes on their own? Well, two people can be in the same place at the same time, so co-incidences could be coincidental. Still wonder if they'll have to do with dead spirits, or time shifts, or whatever. That thing about Sayid being claimed but it being a matter of time before it gets to his heart and he stops being Sayid. Danielle killed the rest of her team because she felt they were changed. Is this sickness another thing entirely again? It did seem to be connected to the smoke monster and the temple. So does that mean smokey WAS in the temple. And if being claimed has to do with smokey, maybe the island manifestations are of people who Smokey tried to claim. Maybe now he can only be Locke because Locke is who he has succeeded in claiming? He needs to take a corporeal form to leave the island? (Jacob was able to leave the island by the way, and we don't know if we've seen him in different forms)Yet that would confuse me, because we've see Locke's body hasn't literally been claimed by Smokey, whereas Sayid's body is Sayid and he's claimed. So claimed is different to the French Team and Smokey afterall? I'm not sure. I wonder, will Locke's body being buried have any impact on Smokey? I'm guessing not, as it wasn't Ilyana-Lucia's idea to bury him. But who knows. Is it my imagination, or is Ilyana probably going to fulfill whatever purpose they had in mind for Ana Lucia, way back when? I wonder who's Eko. Probably Ben or Richard or Dogen or MIB. Sawyer's reference to George and Lennie made me think of Lenny from the mental asylum with Hurley and Libby and Dave. There's something I doubt we'll see addressed. Remember when Libby appeared in an Eko flashback and it seemed a bit like maybe she had ties to Dharma or Widmore or somebody? But then she was dead and it never went anywhere. I'm still pissed that Abbadon got killed off instead of being grown up Walt.
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You are right, I should just leave it as: I am Jew!
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THEN HOW THE FUCK CAN HE BE SMOKIE?
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It doesn't matter. Even if it was a spider it wasn't meant to be a Medusa. It was just there for effect to show the body was indeed decaying.
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...in reverse order. Crab. It was a crab. Locke was dead on a beach. Crabs eat things on beaches. Crow, it's quite possible some of the Others' activities will never fit neatly into what the show has become. But aa a general rule an awful lot of violence has been done by people who had a vague cause or poorly understood belief but no real knowledge of what was happening around them. Really a lot. Darryl Revok. I never got around to thanking you yesterday for spotting the source for my screen name. I've been called a communist and a redneck because of the Red but no one's ever called ou the movie before. Thanks.
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At what point is Sayid claimed? Is it just when he's dying on the island? Or is it after he takes a dip in the temple fountain? Is the water bath not only to revive him but to stop him being claimed, or is it source of being claimed depending on whether the water's right? And if Sayid had been baptised in clear water, would he still be claimed, just by the team the temple support, or would he be regular Sayid? Is someone like Cindy altered, or has she just had the clockwork orange treatment in that crazy room Ben had? Were the French team taken to the temple water? Was Claire? Is Ben claimed? I don't think any of this is clear at all yet. So I liked the temple stuff in the Kate episode, really I did, but it threw up many more questions than answers, didn't it. Which is okay early in the season, but I hope we burn through all this stuff fast. It would be nice to have the story unfold with both the characters AND the audience knowing what the stakes are.
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Seriously. What's with the skinheads in our TB?
-Member of the Tribe -
Welcome!
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Didn't they just time flash back to 2007, which is where the beach story was unfolding? The reason the Others village is a dump is it got levelled by Keamy and the Smoke Monster. And who knows what happened on the island between 2004 and 2007. Not sure which character we will get that perspective from. But we saw the village as a ghost town last season, when Christian was talking to Sun and Frank, and Locke and Ben went there as well I think. That scene with the photo of 1974 and Sun being told by Christian she has a long journey ahead of her still really needs paying off. It was so many episodes ago now. Frank looked crazy in his blood stained pilots uniform throughout those scenes. Straight out of a David Lynch film.
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The first chance he got. It seems a little bold to me to have someone threaten to kill two people who are clearly so important to The Island itself, which they claim to be protecting because its "theirs" I just don't think they can justify actively trying to murder two of jacobs candidates and have it make much sense.
Not that it affects my judgment or enjoyment of the show. I know some things are going to seem inconsistent no matter what. I;m just bringing this up because people were discussing the others up top and I just happened to watch Enter 77 yesterday, -
Shalom
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I would like to agree with you about the time flash EXCEPT that when the Losties leave the scene of the bomb, it's still a giant pit...an excavation site untouched. Even after all the ringing and stuff. So why is that station still an unfinished pit, if they DID flash forward. Or, put differently, if they DID flash to 2007, when after the bomb detonation attempt DID it? Plus, the parallel events in LA are still unfolding as flashbacks.
If they were going to flash forward, wouldn't we, literally, see a FLASH and a completed site?
That's why I'm not convinced everyone's back in the same timeline. -
A lot of behaviour of Others and Island Manifestations of seasons past isn't going to make a lick of sense except to speak to a general theme of what's going on, no specifics. Those others didn't know anything, they were just subordinates. Those apparitions were just Smokey doing reconnaissance, etc. That sort of thing. But it can be understood in context of higher powers going about their business making decisions off screen. But this season, these characters, these jungle apparitions, they know what their purpose is, they have a canonical understanding of the island. Is it perfect? No. But it will do. The candidates, recruiting, claiming etc serves a useful purpose besides telling a story. It's about as convincing a device as you could hope for to hand wave away a bunch of ambiguous indecision from late season one through to early season three.
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...it was clear that even the Others in the temple (Dogen's bunch) didn't know these people were candidates (whatever that will entail) until Hurley cracked open the guitar case and Dogen cracked open the cruciform. I suspect they only collected up the people they did early on for the same vague "here's a list, hop to it" reasons. Not altogether unheard of in religious and dogmatic political groups. Certainly has an echo with the Dharma folks as well, primarily expressed with the pushing the button routine. It's been a recurring theme throughout the show, really, from the early reason v. faith conflicts between Jack and Locke to Eko's denoument and with a bunch of other examples just lying around. I'm hoping that before the ride's over we get a little view of the writers' notion of that spot where faith and reason meet. One of the reasons I got such a grin out of the mention of string theory.
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Eko and Charlie blew up the swan station in 2004 with Locke and Desmond inside it, didn't they? We're not entirely clear what happened after that either. Desmond picked up some weird Billy Pilgrim abilities with space and time, and turned up naked in the jungle. Eko and Locke were affected too. So who knows. But the hatch is supposed to be a crater, and it was. I think this is a red herring. Maybe watch the episode again? Jin actually makes a direct reference to it being just like the times he time flashed before, leaving aside Kate and Miles having hearing problems. As to what happened with the bomb... we're still waiting for more, aren't we. Sawyer first thinks it didn't detonate. He tells Jack none of them have a clue what happened. Juliet then confirms she detonated the bomb, but seems to agree it hasn't done what Faraday and Jack were expecting. But then, in death, she seems to say "It worked" - Miles gets this at her grave. So who knows. The intended inference seems to be that the bomb splintered the time line, but how that works exactly doesn't really seem clear. After the explosion, life on the island is altered, leading to a 2004 where 815 never crashes. But, the old time line doesn't appear to have been erased in its place, as we're still seeing the crash timeline played out in 2007, and the time travellers from 1977 have been restored to that time line. They thought their suicide mission would restore them to a new 2004. So which is it? Either or both? Some are arguing the bomb is not the reset. Something will happen in 2007 that wipes out the 2007 timeline entirely, and this will leave just the new LA X timeline in 2004 - this would be a bit of a fake out, like the flashforward reveal in season three, the narrative structure not entirely being what we're led to believe. But who knows. I guess we'll find out between now and May.
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This really has been bothering me since last season as things got "clearer". It just started to look like we weren't never going to get a good answer. And now it's looking even worse.
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So my question again, which I was confused about...were they back at Swan Station with the Bomb, or was that the Orchid Station...Maybe I'm getting confused, but I thought that the dig site was the Orchid, not the swan, because the Orchid is where they tapped into the Donkey wheel. And isn't Orchid where their "incident" happened that killed a bunch of Dharmites? I remember the losties encountering swan station in the last few episodes, but i forget who or where. But I thought that the bomb detonation was at the Orchid, not the swan station.
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. . . when Jack & Kate aren't in the episode.
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I also thought where Juliet ended up after the bomb "went off" was in the imploded Swan station after Desmond had turned the key. That was pretty much exactly what it looked like at the start of season 3 right? It seemed, to me at least, like they were just implanted back into 2007 as if they had never really gone to 1977. It was the present as if they hadn't warped off of Ajira. They are in the same time and reality as Sun and the beach crew, they just haven't met up yet, so I think it makes more sense she was in the imploded hatch and not the detonated construction site. But its interesting to think that if the Swan hadn't been imploded, so would have either warped into the inside of the swan station on the floor....or buried alive in solid earth. That would have sucked
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I've been looking everywhere, and I can't find a single person annoyed by this and it severely annoyed me when I watched the episode. The error is: Teacher Ben should not exist. When the 815ers went to the 70s, theoretically their childhood versions of themselves were living out their lives elsewhere off of the island. By detonating the nuke and sending the island to the bottom of the ocean, they were hoping to prevent their plane from crashing. Therefore, these childhood versions of themselves would grow to be adults and would get on the plane, and everything would be fine. Sure there would be changes, such as Widmore no longer having an interest in the island, but that was pretty much that. The huge error is...that Ben's younger version of himself was on the island. There was no alternate Ben living elsewhere. Ben was in the temple when the entire island sunk to the bottom of the ocean. Thus it is a huge error that they had Ben teaching a class. He should be dead.
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its just the aftermath from the hatch explosion from a few seasons ago. doesn't explain why juliet was down there still and nowhere near as deep as she shoulda been but i guess she was just transported with the others and it placed her as close as possible. or its just another typical tv continuity issue that wont be explained.
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That's why I'm confused. I'm streaming the season finale on hulu to check...but the bomb detonated at Orchid, didn't it? That's where the core was. That's why they were there. Or am I confusing now?
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i just took it to mean that ben never went to the island in the first place. remember he was only there because his father took him as a child. so in this new timeline that just didn't happen.
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I think someone more clever than I pointed out above that Ben would have been part of the evacuation of non-essential personnel before the incident.
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I don't disagree with that...Or that Jack's sideburns are a huge continuity flaw in past present and alternate timelines.
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They dropped the core down the ladder shaft of the Swan hatch.
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you could see the hatch cover lying on the ground during the construction scenes.
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Clearly Faraday, knowledgeable chap as he was, hadn't got the whole picture with his understanding of what happens happens, as demonstrated by this time line fracture business, where clearly now a bunch of stuff is happening that before certainly didn't happen. So that asks the question, is it both? Are these the rules the island entities know to follow? Because if you break them it gives reality really really bad juju? Faraday understood the physics of not being able to change the past, and being able to change the past, he just didn't realise that the result of trying to change the past in this case would be that BOTH happen, thus the plane crashes in 2004, and it doesn't crash in 2004. It's not an either/or. So do we get a Schroedinger's Box moment? What determines which what happened happened? Who observes it? Regarding string theory. I've only read a bit of popular science, those Brian Greene books a decade ago. But more recently Roger Penrose's hefty tome The Road To Reality and Lee Smolin's sociological study of higher education research and funding through the lens of theoretical physics. And yeah, thematically it would be a great fit for LOST and the question of what the nexus is of science and faith. I think the climate debate also speaks to questions of the proper understanding of scepticism and whether science these days is really science, or instead politics or faith or big business. That would fit with LOST too - Desmond did seem to think the island was the key to saving the world. Was it Fennyman who said Science is the organized skepticism in the reliability of expert opinion? I think LOST will take a view of faith that is heavily rooted in renaissance humanism and the scientific method and the enlightenment. It will eschew modern dogma both in the church AND academia. The name dropping of Locke, Hume, Rousseau etc isn't entirely for shits and giggles.
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No, the bomb in 'The Incident' was the dig site for the future Swan Station Hatch. We even saw them stamping the familiar Numbers onto the outside of it. They threw the bomb down the hole at the electromagnetic 'foreign matter' the Dharma people were about to dig in to.
When the bomb 'doesn't' go off in their timeline, they are shot forward in time to the same time the Ajira 316 crew (Lapidus, Sun, Ilana, UnLocke) were in, and Jack and the rest were now around the blown-up Swan Hatch.
Also, there was a worry somewhere about the van with Hurley's guitar shouldn't have traveled in time--yes it did, Hurley was leaning against it. Just like when Sawyer was holding the well's rope at the Orchid station. -
Also I think given Flockes conversations with Richard and Sawyer were very telling. It was reminiscent of the devil tempting Jesus in the wilderness. And, since faith/choice seems to be so important it may be that one of the "rules" that you CAN'T give your "followers" too much info.
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Mystery cleared up.
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I agree with Bouncy that Ben probably never went to the island in the first place. For all we know his mom probably lived giving birth to him, his life was peachy, and hes just a normal boring history teacher. But on top of that, its not like we know for sure the bomb went off and the island just sunk immediately and everyone died. I don't really buy that, just like I don't buy the idea of the island "sinking". Something fucking crazier than anything we're going to come up with is going around with that. But to say its a huge error because you know the island sunk before anyone could get off because of the bomb is nonsense. We don't know anything of the sort.
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Why the rope travelled through time, who knows...inanimate objects and all...Clothing. They're minor. The van is a bigger deal, however. I think it is just another sign of something guiding events.
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And after this episode, we're starting to see how LARGE those changes are. Locke is friendly towards his dad. He's marrying Helen. So perhaps Roger Linus never went to The Island in the first place.
But even further, what if it's just all these people's lives were never controlled or influenced by Jacob is the big change? What if Jacob was the one who helped turn Locke's pappy into a con-man in the first place? What if Jacob's been pulling strings longer than we've realized? And the LA X reality we're seeing isn't just that 'the bomb never went off', but also that Jacob perhaps never existed, or if he did didn't come into contact with our dear Losties. -
It's pretty clear, btw, that the alternative timeline we see is not directly the effect of the bomb exploding. Otherwise, Shannon would have been on the plane. Desmond would not have been on the plane (or would he?), Ben wouldn't be a teacher.
As for the plane with the food lift to Dharma...Could that have been Widmore? -
Sure, like the Ankh in the guitar case was a homing beacon guiding it through time. I could dig on that theory.
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I read a theory that just sounds way to solid to not be right. That Eloise turned to wheel in 77 and that is the bright light we saw however the reason for the island being underwater(not sunk:big difference) and the ALT timeline haven't been seen yet.
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The island can move...Who's to say the island was sunk, when it could be just HIDDEN?
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Wow. Thakns for that nugget. That makes alot of sense to me... where did you read that? Could you pass it on? My head is going full throttle right now.
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In the original time line. The 815 people time flash to 1974. So I guess it is unclear how Ben's life would be affected by whether 815 crashes or not (815 isn't the root cause of anything in particular, by the way, just Faraday and Jack's motivation to detonate the bomb to stop it crashing. Plenty else would be changed too by the general fucking around with that Island energy so it doesn't need containing with Desmond and the button.) Now since other characters may have gone through time with information, who knows where the ripples go. We know very little about LA X Ben so far, but he did look the most DIFFERENT of anyone we've seen. The vibe I got was of a guy who led a totally different life, possibly never going to the island. But who knows. We really DON'T know when the island sank in the new reality. We're waiting to be told. But if Ben didn't go there in 1973, something which should have happened before the time travel shenanigans, could that be a hint that the bomb events 1974-1977 aren't what caused the reset? I don't think that's clear at all. Remember the bomb storyline involves Faraday in the 1950s meeting Eloise and Widmore. There's also the business of Richard being led to believe that Locke is special. This stuff happens way before Ben going to the island in 1973. So if 815 never crashes, and those interactions never take place, it starts to change island history way before 1973, so maybe Ben never gets there. Oh, here is a thought. That lovely theory up thread about the rope and the well in the era of the statue, perhaps in the ancient history of the island? Well if 815 never crashes, Sawyer and Locke are never there by the Frozen Donkey Wheel to leave that rope behind where the well should be. So does that have a BIG impact of the Frozen Donkey Wheel, island energy, long before anything to do with the hatch? Could that be key to the island being under water? The whole history of the energy and the island being moved is irrevocably changed because of wiping out that time flash back to ancient times? Was Christian down there talking to Locke? Does he know about this stuff? What year was Locke in when he moved the island? Could Locke turning or not turning the Frozen Donkey Wheel somehow be tied into the whole business of whether the island is sunk or not? Rather than the bomb? The bomb explains 815 not crashing. But other things explain other facts being changed? Everything MIB sets in motion when he gets out of the cabin plays into the reset? The bomb just being one component of it? Which could be why we still see 2007 being played out now on the island - the bomb is part of the reset, but not all of it. We're getting the final moves now? I think I said something similar to this yesterday but I'm not sure. But it seems at least a possibility.
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If Ben never went to the island, that implies that his father was never recruited by the Dharma Initiative.
That might imply that the Dharma Initiative was never created by Hanso and the DeGroots.
That might imply that the UN never commissioned the Valenzetti Equation.
That might imply that the numbers do not exist in Reality#2. -
DARKufo. It was one of the top theories for like a week but it might be tough to find now. I think the title was Eloise moved the Island. Or something like that.
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Feb 18, 2010 12:20:56 PM CST
Oops, except the Dharma Initiative must exist in Relity#2...
by royston lodge
...because we saw the underwater DharmaVille in the season premiere.
Ok, so the Dharma Initiative DID exist in Relity#2, but was sunk.
That means the number SHOULD exist in Relity#2, since the Dharma Initiative was founded to research the numbers.
Maybe the island was sunk before Ben's dad was supposed to be recruited by the Dharma Initiative. -
I like alot of that. I hate to get into the quantum physics argument of Butterfly Effects, but you gotta admit one tiny change, one little "push", has huge and far reaching consequences.
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When the losties time flash they don't just go to 1977 and set off the bomb. They go to other times too. So them never crashing and never doing that possibly changes a lot else other than just the hatch. So Ben being around in LAX isn't a continuity error if they don't want it to be. And there is A LOT of wiggle room as to why the island is underwater. That idea of Eloise causing the time flash to 2007 via Frozen Donkey Wheel is interesting and would explain part of the randomness of it all. But we still would need some insight as to what governs the time flashes. I mean, what just perfectly plops them back down in 2007? Unless she knows how to configure the damn thing properly, whereas Ben and then Locke were a bit amateur. Except Locke was under Christian's guidance. So were those time flashes being steered by that entity? The Ben/Locke donkey wheel thing must be cleared up. Were they told to do it by different entities, or is it as simple as Ben stole Locke's thunder against the wishes of whoever was in the Cabin? This is where all this gets set in motion, so it must be intimately tied to the reset, IMHO. Oh shit, that was long winded again. Oops.
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"The second thing that we do is we drop out of the plane and we go below the water and we see that the Island is submerged. What we’re trying to do there is basically say to you, “God bless the survivors of Oceanic 815, because they’re so self-centered, they thought the only effect [of detonating the bomb] was going to be that their plane never crashes.” But they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?” So that their entire lives can be changed radically. In fact, it would appear that they’ve sunken the Island."
EW: Are you saying definitively that detonating Jughead was the event that created this new timeline? Or is that a mystery which the season 6 story will reveal?
LINDELOF: It’s a mystery. A big one.
"Should you infer that the detonation of Jughead is what sunk the island? Who knows? But there’s the Foot. What do you get when you see that shot? It looks like New Otherton got built. These little clues [might help you] extrapolate when the Island may have sunk. Start to think about it. A couple of episodes down the road, some of the characters might even discuss it. We will say this: season 6 is not about time travel. It’s about the implications, the aftermath, and the causality of trying to change the past. But the idea of continuing to do paradoxical storytelling is not what we’re interested in this year."
"And we don’t use the phrase “alternate reality,” because to call one of them an “alternate reality” is to infer that one of them isn’t real, or one of them is real and the other is the alternate to being real."
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When? Who knows. 54 or 77.
Thank god you are using line breaks now. I think I actually read the majority of your post. -
Remember last season when they were flashing through time, and they stole a canoe or whatever, and then other people, unknown, chased them and shot at them. Who were they? Since were done with time travel, it seems difficult to imagine that strange little piece will be answered...unless someone here figured it out somehow. Was it the defenders of Jacob or whoever? Bram and them? I can't remember, I just remember it being very strange.
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Ben and Locke leaving the island leads to Locke being dead and the O6 being brought back and the losties being stuck in 1977 together to detonate the bomb. Is all of that desirable to MIB? Didn't he use the time flashes to some extent to manipulate Richard into believing Locke is special, then using Locke to get to Jacob? So are the timeflashes not random, but to specific points where MIB exerts influence to change things to his liking? So what is the mechanism for that exactly. And is it all MIB, or is Jacob making moves too? Or is he just working off island, touching the O6? And do the time flashes, and Jacob visiting the O6 have to have always happened? Otherwise reality would be in constant flux during the future world of each time flash. Faraday is right, when they are time flashing, that it must have been ever thus. So what IS actually different this time? Is it in fact just Faraday realising the bomb can change what happened after all? The wildcard element does seem to have to come from Faraday, Desmond, Eloise I think. There's really not enough information to work it out I don't think.
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Because we saw underwater Dharmaville, that proves that the island was sunk at some point after the foundation of the Dharma Iniative in the mid sixties.
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That is a good question. It seemed significant at the time becasue it appeared as if Juliet shot one of them. I was pretty annoyed they didn't follow up on that last season and I highly doubt they'll revisit it this season. But you never know.
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I haven't rewatched the season, but I think that it was the Aijira gang. Could be wrong.
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Is the "reset" part of the struggle between Jacob and Smoky at all? Or is it part of the free will being exercised by Jack and Faraday? There are these island entities trying to manipulate to either continue or break an endless cycle, and there are these laws of physics which say what is done is done. But Jack and Faraday say to hell with that. The men of science try to escape this deterministic universe by exercising free will that physics and the island spirits would deny them. So did they succeed, or not? Is the alt-reality about man choosing his own destiny, or about man being trapped by the forces of fate?
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Take this for instance: This week Richard runs into Sawyer. If you recall, last season, Richard tells Sun that he watched everybody die in the 70s. He didn't seem too suprised to see him this week. All I'm saying is, that this flash sideways, the way they are doing it this year, doesn't really fit the mold of what they were saying last season. They are trying to show us that in one reality the bomb sunk the island and thus the plane never crashed. If the bomb went off in that reality and in the other reality the 815ers are sent back to present time...then how did Richard witness them all die? Second problem is that Ben could not have gotten off the island in the "bomb going off timeline." Ben's dad was still looking for Ben while all hell was going on and shot Sayid because of it. Ben was in the temple likely going through the water ritual. There is something seriously wrong with the writing this year, and I don't think it can be fixed. You can't say that in this timeline Ben never came to the island. The differences that we see in the alternate timeline are all due to the fact that the island sunk, thus Jacob never visited any of them and Widmore never tried all of his corporate conspiracies to get back to the island. That's why this reality is heavily changed.
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Watch the scene again and see how the crab moves when Lapidus puts the tarp over John's body. Its totally a crap and not a spider.
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They do keep saying LOST is about the characters. So I think it makes sense if the science and the faith pulls are two sides of the same coin. And the answer is that the people have to make sense of their own world through rational action that navigates both and affirms our humanity. Science and religion taken too far are both dogmatic schemes that trap us in superstitions that make us automatons and deny us our sense of self or spontaneity or community. We have to use our creativity and intuition and emotions in tune with our physical senses to really experience ourselves in the world. Authority in LOST is frequently shown to lack the knowledge and understanding that would justify the leadership roles that people take on. A greater awareness of the need to question these things is what will win the day. I think Hurley might be the paradigm. The world makes him out to be mad, but really he's not. He sees the nonsense in so much of what's around him, but remains a good natured friend. It's the demands of the world that are pulling him towards crazy superstition and driving him nuts. But set free of that, his intuition is a good thing. The world would be a better place with more Hurleys.
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it was a cockroach, they are big in Hawaii.. just kidding, it was a scarab..
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No Other has ever met with Jacob other than Alpert. And even Alper DIDN'T know about Jacob's list of candidates. So it makes PERFECT sense that Mikhail would threaten to kill Locke and Sayid bc he doesn't care and doesn't know that they are candidates. And just bc they're candidates doesn't mean they can't be killed (obviously). It could just mean who's the last one to live, not who is the most special.
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That's a good catch about Richard saying he saw people die. There's a whole bunch of stuff about the 2007 story from last year that needs explaining. Especially Sun. I guess we can wave it away by it being anything goes in the wake of Jacob being killed. Richard is scared for his life and expecting the unexpected. Richard and Sawyer do seem surprised to see each other. But remember, Richard must know about the time flashes, having first met Sawyer in a time when he shouldn't have been, when Sawyer knew stuff he shouldn't have. So Richard might not be entirely shocked to see him in a place he doesn't think he should be. In the 2007 time line, I presume we take for granted 1977-2004 happened as it always did. I think there are big questions as to what went on 2004-2007, after the island is moved in the season four finale. Is there anyone who could provide that perspective on the island? I think just Richard, yeah? Everyone else we knew either time flashed, or went home.
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Because he's seen Sawyer on the Island since 815 crashed 3 years previous- remember?
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1977, the BOMB GOES OFF. This explosion near Island Magic electromagnetism sends the 77 LOSTies into the present where they belong. But to everyone still on the Island- the DHARMA peeps that got away, the Others who were off in the distance- they saw a crazy explosion at the site and assumed everyone was dead. DHARMA listed LeFleur and Miles and Juliet as dead casualties. THIS is what always happened. THAT was the Incident. The bomb going off *stopped* all the crazy electromagnetic pull and allowed DHARMA to regroup, pour concrete on the site and rebuild the Swan, now with the ability to vent all the built-up pressure. THIS is why Alpert says he "saw them die" back in 77. But he's also seen them alive on the Island in the present since they crashed on the Island. He just remembers them from his past. Now the bomb might also have created an alternate reality- we don't know. We don't know if this reality is bc of the bomb or bc of something else. But when you put it all together that way, it makes sense that Alpert would remember "seeing" them die in the past. And he wouldn't be surprised, after all he saw Locke appear and disappear a few times in his life.
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COULD think that 2004 Sawyer went to 1977 and died. It does need clarifying. Probably he just found out, now, that Sawyer time flashed back to 2007 instead of dying in the bomb blast. He would have had a nice chat about it right there in the jungle, but was busy being scared witless by the smoke monster. My guess is Richard meets up with some of the others and talks about it next week? Hey, I just saw Sawyer in the jungle. Why aren't you guys dead? Bigger question, why doesn't Richard suspect Sawyer of not being Sawyer? Maybe he spoke to Jacob/Aaron who told him to help Sawyer escape, and they were in cahoots leading Smokey away through the jungle giving Richard chance to speak to Sawyer? Another possibility, that wasn't Richard. It was an island manifestation? Unlikely I guess.
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Peeps. Darlton explains all these supposed discrepancies in the EW interview by telling us that the incident didn't just prevent 815 from crashing, but changed everything before that point as well.
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Richard has seen Sawyer in 1974 as well.. when they saved the truce.
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So it was probably a crab.
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You're forgetting the premiere episode though. They showed the island under water. So your explanation of them building everything and patching up doesn't make too much sense?
Seems that in the reality with the Ajira flight, the bomb never went off and the hatch was made like you said. But in the other reality it seems the island went straight to the bottom of the ocean, hence the hatch didn't bring down flight 815. -
The crab lives at Sea World. That's the script Carlton's doing the third draft on. Episode 6.15. Got to tie up those big mysteries! Synopsis: "Hurley tells the crab it's got to swim back to the island and turn the Frozen Donkey Wheel, or he'll buy Sea World and turn it into crab sauce." Hope you guys don't mind the spoiler, but this is big news.
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Feb 18, 2010 1:39:35 PM CST
Curious: What would be the point of the Alternative Reality...
by mr. nice gaius
...flash sideways timeline-thing if the island is now under water? As we see the lives of the Losties start to cross paths during the post-bomb reality...where are the paths going?Are they being inevitably drawn back to the SUBMERGED island? Wha?!?Or is there another incident set to take place once all their paths collide?
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All the names in the cave were (deliberately vague, and gender-neutral) last names. So, as "Kwon" can, and probably does refer to BOTH Sun and Jin, Kate CAN be among the names in the cave. How? If she marries Jack or Sawyer, she becomes "Mrs. Shepherd" or "Mrs. Ford". Personally, I think she's going to become "Mrs. Shepherd" and Jack and Kate will become "Adam and Eve." Time will tell!
Awesome episode, BTW. LOST rocks! -
Global warming. Apparantly in the alternate reality ocean levels have went through the roof!
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That is a joke. I don't want to start a neverending climate change debate. Leave that to the 'experts'. Lost rules my life.
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In the 2007 timeline, the Island is NOT sunk. The explosion from the bomb sent them into the present. Present day Alpert is still the same as 1977 Alpert. In 1977 he saw them "die". Bomb still went off in 1977. We don't know how big the explosion was, and I'm sure the Island's powers negated a lot of its impact. But my theory is the bomb stopped all the electromagnetic powers long enough to let DHARMA pour concrete over it, like they did in Chernobyl, like Sayid mentioned in Season 2.
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What if when you come to the island, in the scheme of things, you travel a few years back in time. Say that when the Ajira flight crashed, it crashed in 2006. Do you recall the delayed transmissions and such from season 4 and the whole thing with the dead doctor who floated to shore but had not been killed yet? The ship was farther away from the island. Thus, when the body fell off the boat, it traveled back in time when it started to approach the island, so when the island communicated with the ship, it could essentially cheat time. It could let the ship know what was about to happen. There's obviously discrepancies in time here. What if that is Widmore's motives? Maybe that's why they were building satellites and communications systems on the island. If you could communicate to the American/European Shores you could manipulate the stock market and make billions. Maybe that is the source of Widmore's success? What if the island has not sank yet and the bomb in 1977 had always went off? What if it was the bomb that sealed away the energy into the hatch to begin with? What if it was just an explosion but not a nuclear explosion? This might answer some of our questions. Richard might have seen the hatch site explode and thought that Jack, Sawyer, Kate and everyone were there. He may assume that they were all blown up. What if whatever sank the island under the ocean is still yet to come? Maybe the writers are showing us in the alternate universes the lives each passenger will live if they sink the island. To make things clear, I'm saying, I wouldn't be surprised if all the characters in the second half of the season start switching consciouses between the two realities (like the Constant Episode) and have to make the choice whether to sink the island or to let it stand. That may be what we are heading towards. if someone on the island were to have a magical cell phone that could call Australia, flight 815 may still be 3 months from taking off, even though it's been like 3 years since it has crashed on the island.
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You guys should check out the latest issue of Rolling Stone. Great article about LOST.
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chaseguy17, you just made my head a'splode. Going to have to think about this for a while...
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I really like that. It almost seems too simplistic. With the whole, in it for the money angle. But, at the same time it kinda makes the most sense.
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A new washer dryer in the hatch? Excuse my french, but what in God's name are you babbling about? The problem is simply this: you said "Jacob wasnt dead yet when he changed. Thats why he cant change anymore. Ilana confirmed this last night." That statement is incorrect. All she confirmed was that Smokey can't change into other people anymore. She did not confirm anything beyond that. There is a big difference between confirmation and conjecture. What you are doing is using conjecture. Confirmation is completely completely different.
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"Even if you're not a LOST fan, you'll miss it when it's gone. Because we may never see a network TV show this insane again." So, so, true.
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the writers might be showing us the ending from the get go. The island under water and all of these flash sideways might be the ending to the show. That might be the whole trick. That they all continue their relationships off the island, with a little hint of deja vu. So when we see the island underwater, we might think that this is all a result of the bomb, when in reality, this might be the ending. The island being sunk to the bottom of the ocean might be the last thing we see of the season. Cuse might have given us the ending right from the get go, and we never knew it. So the last thing we see is the island sinking and we all think, "WHAT?!?!?! this is it?" When in reality, they told us the rest of the story with these flash sideways. I think that this might be more logical than the "Constant" conscious switching i brought up above.
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was my response about predicting Alpert might be on the Black Rock back in s3 adequate for you?
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think about the HUGE hit Harry's website is going to take once LOST is over in May
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He says he's drunk, and if the foo shits ...
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based purely on conjecture, is I think too much time has passed and now he's "locke'd" in. I don't think its because Jacob died, but who knows? we'll find out I hope
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A couple of thoughts here...
MIB can't change form because he has taken the form of a candidate.
Sawyer was able to see dead little Jacob because he is a candidate. Alpert was not able to see little bloody Jacob because he was never a candidate. If you can buy that, then my guess is of the two Kwon's, Sun is the candidate.
Back in LA X, Jacob tells Hurley Jin will not be able to see him. My guess is this because Hurley is a candidate and Jin is not. -
some brilliant deductive logic used there sir. Kudos!
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Rosasaks, royston, red ned, vader, crow
What I'm thinkin:
bloody child = Aaron
hope this doesn't turn out to be The Stand on an Island. That would suck.
Although it looks like they are setting up Jack to be the new Jacob, he's such a jackass(ha), that I think it's just as plausible that he's the new Esau.
So, at the end we get Hurley eating a candybar on the beach, Jack walks up and says: "Do you know how bad I want to kill you?"
Hurley:"Dude, have a candybar"
THE END -
I would have guessed it was Jin rather than Sun, purely because I can't think of a reason why Sun didn't go back to 1977 whilst everyone else did.
But then Kate isn't on the list. Hmm. Nevermind. Maybe their was no good reason for them being split up other than as a narrative device.
I was happy that MIB confirmed he was most definitely a man. I was a bit worried that MIB wanting to go 'home' was going to turn out to be a bit ET/Indiana Jones.
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Anyone curious who Locke was substitue teaching for? Class was learning about human reproduction. Juliet anyone? What's to say she is still a scientist in the alt-verse?
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Yea, sorry I never responded to that, but I do now remember the scene with Richard staring at the black rock in a bottle, and the pirate-y hippyish shirt. I agree those could definietly be construed as hints and nods, I still don't think its concrete evidence. But it certainly is more evidence than my theory has, thats for sure. I just really think they are going to throw us for a fucking loop with the upcoming Richard centric episode. I don't think we can really know what to expect. We shall who ends up correct...I don't really care personally, I just want to know already! haha
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-Richard episode
-Statue being built
-more of Widmore & ELoise
-more Faraday
-Claire going Rousseau on everyone
-Ghostbustin' with Hurley & Miles (coming Feb 2011)
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Any chance Dogen is Jin's father? He was adopted.
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Jacob alive = MIB can take forms.
Ilanya now knows Jacob is dead, she makes that claim about MIB cannot change.
So, throw in some thoughts on another reason why he might not be able to take forms now.
And the washer & dryer comment was sarcasm as to tallboy wanting intricate answers. You arent gonna get them. -
I suppose Miles is Jin's half-brother brother as well?
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I suppose Miles is Jin's half-brother brother as well?
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Typing too fast. I'm the "R" word.
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He was referring to the Purge. I doubt he meant everyone specifically in that group photo. Just Dharma in general.
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Yep more Faraday for me too
Although in a way I'd also give kudos to the writers for having the guts to kill off what was becoming a popular character - Faradyas sub story with him getting killed by his own mother was one of the best bits of Lost even though his moms actions still don't quite make sense to me. -
Gotta link to the RS article? I only saw one from last year.
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you seem very against conjecture and speculation when... thats the ENTIRE online point of fans interacting with each other and discussing/debating/theorizing LOST.... what gives man? Whats wrong with havnig fun? Its a TV show, not to be sacrosanct
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I don't see why the alt reality doesn't fit that bill. As far as I understand it, that alt reality also always has happened, etc
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I think Eloise Hawking has so much faith in the flow of time, and after shooting him when she was younger, later in life came to realize what she had done of course, but then let it happen anyway, because she felt she had no other choice. She didn't believe in "choice" the way her son came to. That was my thought at least, if thats what you were talking about when you said her actions didn't make sense. Just like we saw in "Flashes Before Your Eyes" way back when, she wouldn't allow Desmond to buy the ring and not go to the Island. It was his destiny, and he had to do it. I just don't think she had faith in a choice by the time she sent him to the Island to die. It had already happened.
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Sitting around and saying "what if this and what if that" with no evidence behind the theories isn't interesting to me. But I don't think I just attacked anyone did I? Except with the Asian thing I guess a little...but I was mostly kidding, andit is true, clearly his only justification for saying they are related is because they are both Asian. There is nothing else behind making a guess at that.
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well, yes, if and only if, Jins father is important enough of a twist to the writers. Jin's father is unknown only his adopted father. It might nt be impportant to the story and we may never find out. Or it could end up being someone to tie him even more to the island...everyone else seems related to someone. Dogen gave Jin a look...that could mean, "Hey I recognize you last name or first name and I knew your father.....heck Dogen's name might be Jin-Soo Dogen.
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A report states she'll be coming back. No word if it's for one episode or several.
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It also might be Doug Dogen. That's my new theory at least. I'm not trying to be a dick at all, sorry. Proceed with the conjecture, boys. I'll stay out of it.
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Forgot about that. Alpert could have totally meant that.
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His dad only said he didn't know for sure if he was the father. But there's a chance.
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theres is a difference between saying "maybe alpert is from the Black Rock" and saying "maybe Desmond is Charle's Widmore's father". You don't seem to distinguish between the two types of speculation. One is based on evidence, the other is completely yanked out of someone's ass. You seems to lump the two together. I'm not talking about Jin/Dogen, I'm talking abvou your general tone in this thread over the last few days. If I misunderstood it, I apologize, bu you seem to treat the "maybe alpert was on the Black Rock" type theories with the same amount of respect I'd treat the "maybe Desmond is Widmore's father" type theories.
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And I'm pretty sure Dogen was speaking Japanese. So there's that. Not all Asians are from the same country. Sorry
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Yep I get that...but knowing that Daniel doesn't have time to do anything significant on the Island after planting the idea in Jacks head about the bomb - I might, as a loving parent, be tempted to tell him not to go rushing into the Others camp brandishing a gun.
The gamble being of course that you can't tell what leaving him alive would do but I need to know that Eloise knows enough to have made this judgement. It doesn't quite ring true for a parent. -
Didn't I respectfully ask for someone to explain where the original theory of RIchard being on the black rock came from? And then you told me. And then didn't I say thanks, and that I had forgotten that, and that it was more evidence than I had for my theory. I also stated about 100 times that we're going to find out in a few weeks anyway, and if he is on the black rock and I'm wrong, thats perfectly fine. My original post I was just laying out why it seemed much more interesting to me that Richard would be much older than 160 years. I just don't think going back that far will explain nearly enough of the Islands past, and if they are going to use Richard to do that, which seems likely, then I don't think he'll be on the black rock. I don't think I ever insulted the theory about Richard being on it. If he is, it's still going to be interesting as hell. I just hope hes a lot older, and we get to see that. MiB saying "I've been trapped here for so long I don't even remember what it feels like to be free." also sounds like a lot longer than 160 years for a seemingly immortal smoke monster. I'm sorry if I offended you somehow, but I never said anything against the theory at all.
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I'm with everyone else that wants the Real Locke to come back. That would be the ultimate geekout moment for me, because Locke has been my favorite character since the beginning. I don't know how it would happen unless Sidelocke somehow made it to the present time when timelines converged. I don't know if it will happen, but it would still be great if he reappeared and was the key to it all. I like the idea of Sawyer conning UnLocke, but how or why exactly?
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And kill Flocke.
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Unfortunately, no. I just got the issue in the mail.
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But only because I think it's a really, super ballsy move to make such a wonderful and beloved character a joke. A pawn. A blip. It's just so bold. It breaks my heart, but I just feel like if John Locke somehow comes back to life...it cheapens that somehow. Dead is dead. They've said that many times. And now he's buried in the ground. Unless somehow the alt-verse and the present timeline converge and some crazy shit happens...I think the story of john locke is what it is. Sad...but complete. But again..just my opinion. My guy says all of you are probably right and he will be back, in glorious fashion to strike down his foes. I'm just sort a fan of tragic stories, they resonate with me, and it seems fitting for john locke to end up the way he is somehow to me. But I certainly understand the desire to have him back. He was awesome
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Not my guy. I don't have a guy who advises me on these things. That sentence looks funny. My guy says..
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He can't be simplified into a white rock/black rock good or evil way, apparently. Also this season has 3 acts/arcs to it, and the first arc will end first week of March. Second arc will deal with everyone picking sides. Damn. Just like Season 1 predicted.
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you didn't offend me, and you're taking this to literally. I wasn't talking about the Black rock stuff specifically, I was talking about reading your responses to people on this thread over the last few days where you've said "stop the speculation! no evidence! its all conjecture!" and I think its been a little too harsh and dogmatic. Speculating is what makes LOST fun. Its possibly the most-fan-involved online phenom at the moment. I feel bad for the people that just watch the show in batches when the DVDs come out, because the theorizing and interacton is really half the fun.
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I guess I just like it when people figure out stuff for real by working together on here, than just throwing out ideas "that would be soo cool if it happened" I don't mean to be dogmatic. These talkbacks, every week, remind me of or inform me on at least one thing I haven't noticed or haven't figured out. I love that. I just get annoyed when people sit around making things up from nothing. That isn't theorizing, thats bullshitting. I guess I'm just not a bullshitter. I don't mean to cramp your style. I'll cool it.
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I am anticipating Flocke vs. Locke more breathlessly than Keamy vs. Jarrah. (All right, so I was holding out for the spin off: "KEAMY: World-trotting adventures of the psychotic chipmunk-toothed mercenary, Martin Christopher Keamy." Or as Kevin Durand himself puts it, "I think you guys are misinterpreting his character."Gas up the chopper, Frank.But yeah. Flocke/Locke. Hope it pans out. Maybe they'll play an action-packed game of backgammon? Maybe all these references to "timeline convergence" mean something different... something more subtle than what we think it means. I hope not. Juliet's (unspoken) last words give me hope that timeline-X isn't some dead-end diversion.
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Do bad people know they're bad? Sure, some folks (boytextampon) must make a conscious decision to be evil and hurt people. Imagine young Vic Von Doom in his dorm room with a bong, chortling over how he's gonna be worse than Hilter.I raise this digression because ford pours drinks, hands one t NonLocke and offers a toast: "Here's to being bad!" UnSmoke winces and gives him a "that's not funny." look.So, was Nemesis offended by the toast because:1. He is a trickster and doesn't like it when someone sees through his deceptions and calls him out for what he really is?or 2. Like Ben and Bram and Jack and so many other characters in this drama, he really thinks that he's one of "The Good Guys".We ignore the Chuck Norris variable and assume that White/Black equals Good/Evil and, in this case, Jacob/ManInBlack. (Which also leads to the assumption that bloody boy in white is Jacob Jr, Jacob reincarnated or ghost of Jacob.)This does not hold true for all cultures: most famously in China white is the death color."Today there is no day or night, today there is no wrong or right, today there is no black or white, only shades of gray." - The Monkees
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Oh, I realize that Jin is Korean and Dogen is most likely japanese. I was just reading some outstanding questions on different character and one of the big ones with Jin is who is his father...so i'm not pulling the idea totally out of the air. Now his mother was a prostitute or at least a woman labeled that for sleeping with a man different than her husband/boyfriend at the time. So it could be Christian for all we know. I just know that it is a small lingering question out there and when Dogen saw JIn we thought he was questioning who he was and if he was on Jacobs list. But he could just have been saying, "I recognize your name." So I am not totallly pulling it out of my azz. just a little bit. No offense taken.
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the toast was "here's to being dead." in reference to both locke and juliet being dead. But fair enough, interesting post.
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Somebody said the two timelines are explained in a Season 5 deleted scene. Faraday says something along the lines of, "If you throw a huge rock in a stream, sometimes it dams up the stream. But other times, the water just runs around the rock. It makes two streams."
Anybody seen this? What's the exact quote? -
No one yet has raise the least important question raised by this episode.I love it when folks obsess over the unimportant stuff, things they claim are "questions" that you just know will never be addressed by the show. The example given above about the washer/Dryer in the Dharma station being a prime example, and the spider/crab debate being one such topic. (Loved the typo "It's a crap, end of story." Nuff said.)Well, my totally unimportant question raised by this episode is: Whose Iggy album was that? Sure Sawyer was listening to it, but we seriously doubt he brought his album collection with him on the plane. and loud raucous rock music is associated with young people (Alex, Karl) but look at the pop charts: young people gravitate towards current music from their own era and consider classics from "before their time" to be "old peoples music" no matter how cool it is or once was.Besides, since "Search and Destroy" was - if I recall correctly - Iggy's first post-Stooges LP and from 1973, and the Dharma Initiative arrived on the Island in 1975, then we can safely assume that the album was brought to the Island by someone from the Dharma Initiative. But who? Which Dharma bum owned it? Is it an important clue to the personality of one of the Dharma Initiative's key players, or is it just a minor detail with no further significance and a conundrum we will never have answered?One thing we can safely assume: it did NOT belong to Pierre Chang Candlewaxman whatever his name is, Miles' dad. He preferred country music.Slightly less tongue in cheek and more on point: whose theme song was it meant to represent. We saw NonLocke enter the house that "was never Ford's house" looking for James as the greek chorus vocal identified him as "the one who searches and destroys" which certainly seems to fit the UnSchmoke persona, but it was James who was getting drunk and listening to the album, and he certainly seems to be "the world's forgotten boy," if only in his self pitying daze.So, was Search and Destroy NonLocke's theme song, or James'? Or is the fact that it applied to both of the equally a clue as to the bond that ties them inexplicably together?I remind you, before you respond, that this may be the episodes least important question.
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Like Andy Kaufman's little foreign man or Stephen Coalbear's rabid whinger, a put-on construct. I cite as evicence of this conjecture the fact that everything he writes is hilarious. And he can't be serious because everyone knows conservative Republicans' don't have a sense of humor, which is why they think Rush and Glembck are so funny. So if Coughee really believed what he says, he'd have to be a rite-whinger, but since everything he says is hilarious, he can't be. therefore, obviously, he's a parodist. But a good one: he sure cot some folks here falling for his troll act.
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once again:
"there’s the Foot. What do you get when you see that shot? It looks like New Otherton got built. These little clues [might help you] extrapolate when the Island may have sunk. Start to think about it"
the nuke DID NOT sink the island
maybe it cracked the statue, leaving only the foot - someone will have to confirm if it was just a foot in 1977 - I could be wrong there
but NEW OTHERTON GOT BUILT - that's a big clue right there - as Darlton say, start to think about it... -
is how they hit you with a cliffinger (not a typo, my personal pronunciation of cliff hanger) and then completely ignore it the next episode. They've done this a lot over the years and this weekif you tuned in a few minutes early and caught the end of the previous episode, there's CrazyClaire all Rousseau/Rambo'd up and backshooting, after having been AWOL for an entire season. A-hah - at last, answers about where Claire went and what happened to her after she left Aaron in the crotch of a tree. You might think. and them [poom] eppy over.New episode starts with "Previously on Lost..." and they recap various scenes including the "Hey, there's Claire on the island" momentito por favor. So you're (and by you're I mean I'm) thinking "Now we find out whassup w/ Bay-bee mommy" - and of course the eppy opens with unlucky altLocke in sitcomville. Nice fake out when he smiles, by the way - for a split I'm thinking, hey nice house, nice van, he can get around on his own, he's a winner. Then his chairlift stalls, he makes the bad choice to try to skijump of it, flips his rig and gets rained on by his own lawn sprinklers, then does a sitcom wha-wa-waa comedy take. Then just when you think he's poor pitiful he, out comes his lovely hot fiance Helen and you realize it aint all sucks being him. Nice emotional roller coaster ride.But, back to point - nothing about Claire on the island. zip nada zilch chinaclippercallingalamedea, Mr.dubbalinamr.bobdubbilina. Zilllch.Claire, what Claire? Who? Oh, that Claire, sure, we'll get back to you on that.And that's another thing I love about Lost.
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After the episode where Sun buys off Jin's mom, my own theory was that Jin's dad is ... Sun's dad. Why? Jin's fisherman "father" says he doesn't really know if he's Jin's real dad - and if Jin's dad was to be someone else, I was thinking its likely another character on the show - and through that point in time, the only plausible person it could be was Sun's father. Of course, that would make Jin & Sun incestuous and gross, but the producers came somewhat close to that already with the whole Boone loves Shanon thing (even though they weren't related by blood).
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Another excellent EP, love the pairing of Flocke and Dark-Sawyer. I'm going to ramble on a bit...
I was reading through some posts above, re: when things happened both in X and ... do we have a standard reference? Let's call it O like original, but also like X vs. O [in tic-tac-toe]
Anyway, at first I wondered (after season 5) the bomb going off changes from the crash forward (kind of the apex moment in the timeline), but then we learned pretty quickly that it seems to have changed at least from '77 forward. It seems the blast was "parallel", it went off in 77O and affected/created 77X. In X, the affect from '77 winds up preventing the crash in 04X (most conspicuously because the island is under water).
It was somebody's comment above about Ben being on the island, and it being pointed out he may have not been there. However, I don't think we've seen anything that indicates anything _before_ '77 is any different[?] Can we assume that up until the bomb detonates in '77, that everything was the same? I'm assuming yes, because I don't believe there was any pre'77 X time, the X and O were the same until, *boom*, now there's a fork in what was a one lane road.
So that would suggest if Ben was on the island in 74/75, he was there in X and O (since they share a common pre-77 history), and I'm thinking any exposure to the island has some consequence. Plus we know Dharma was present in some capacity, etc. That's _also_ why I subscribe to the bomb not being the reason the island is sunk - I believe it sunk way after the '77 event, though I was wondering if anyone saw anything during the underwater shot that would suggest the Dharma ruins were "modern". Was the shark a modern experiment? -
You know, like Hats Off To Larry or A Tip of the Hatlo Hat if you know those.I keep the thermo set to 62 and layer on the sweats to try to fight the gas bill. 90% of body heat is chimneyed out though the scalp. (not a real statistic) I have this silk/wool blend tube that can be used as a collar or a balaclava - I roll it double and hear it as a knit hat ala Mike "Woolhat" Nesmith. So in tribute, I's doff my hat but since I'm waring a tube on my head, I doff my tube to MacFaux for raising the level of literary content, obscure references, song quotes and autobiographical TMI in this forum. A true inspiration. I just hope he doesn't charge me with plagiarism if I cite him as an influence.I'll admit that I skimmed of skipped his stuff for a while there; it takes a while for him to come into focus to the uninitiated reader. But I'm coming to appreciate his contributions to this endeavor more and more.Hehh heh, heh heh, I said "I'm coming." Not in these pants, you don't. "I have to return these trousers to the rental agency, there's a deposit on them" "Oh don't worry, sir, that will brush right off."
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Congrats to our gracious host Herc the strong, by the way, on the most elegantly on point talkback title quote ever. "Time to talk LOST". Well, in spite of the occasional troll incursions and p*l*t*c*l and religious debates or debacles, isn't that what we really keep coming back here to do week after week" to talk Lost?(And wasn't the original Room23/Jedi Council all summer break long talkback inspired by the one time that a Lost talkback was canceled and taken down for getting too spoilerific, resulting in the fans striking back and resulting in the famous 10,000 post tb?)LOSTtalkin'!
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This talkback has been very revealing.
It was a pretty good post tho, if I do say so. -
...first, you should have a guy who advises you. They're useful. Second, sadly enough I sort of agree with you about Locke not coming back. I would much rather he did...but he shouldn't. At least not as a living, breathing Locke-shaped guy, anyway.
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...another flier and I apologize if I'm not the first to take this (probably stupid and incorrect) plunge. In backgammon the goal is to remove your own piece from the board. Smocke, or whatever you would like to call him, threw the white stone away. And even if this were true it wouldn't necessarily mean anything. But I was thinking about it.
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WILL KILL THE FUCKING INTERNET!
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...Sawyer and Juliette lived in the place for three years. We don't know, after the bomb maybe exploded, if anyone lived there after. They had plenty of chances to get stuff shipped in. And Sawyer seems to have chosen to listen to it. Seems pretty likely it was theirs.
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few things... dogen could be jins daddy... ever hear of biracial children... i mean a korean plays a jap on heroes... im just sayin this cuz of technicality, i dont believe it
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...the son of a hundred maniacs? Maybe that was Ben.
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The pre 1977 time line MUST be different, because without 815 crashing, none of the survivors could have gone back to 1954 and interacted with people on the island. And they didn't just go back to 1954 and 1974 either. Oh, well at least this raises the question: is LA X the time line that follows on from a 1977 when the bomb goes off? Or is LA X the time line that follows on from a 1977 when no bomb goes off because 815 never crashed? I'll go for answer C - the bomb ALWAYS went off, which is why 2007 still exists. Something else will be revealed as the cause of LA X.
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My girlfriend is coming over, and she is currently borrowing my DVDs and watching all of lost basically. It's actually impressive because she's gotten all the way to halfway through season 3 within 2 weeks. Anyway, she wants to watch some episodes...and she's on Expose. I almost can't wait to be forced to watch it again. It's one of the few episodes I've never watched twice, and unlike most people, I don't remember hating it. I remember being frustrated because I waited a week for a new episode and got a story unrelated to the main plot...but it was still morbid and fun. It was like a twilight zone episode of lost if i remember. just thought i'd share, its been such a long time. Right after this Sawyer is gonna go ahead and kill John Lockes dad, and then soon after, our good friend Charlie is gonna die for his friends. Its been some journey
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This time loop thing gets COMPLICATED very quickly. Hypothetically - First time around, we're all born on the island in 1977 and live our lives forward in a linear fashion. This could be the original time line. BUT in 2004 815 crashes and these people from the future later appear in 1974. Now is this the first time this happens? Is this a new 1974, or is it the same 1974 that always was? Does the past and future of the whole time line always exist simultaneously? Would that be determinism/fatalism/destiny/clock work universe shit? Or is it an event that can only happen AFTER the first time 2004 HAPPENS? So possibly right there if we cleave to one view of fate, just time travelling at all creates a second time line. I mean god forbid, one of these time travellers could kill our parents in 1974 before we are born in 1977? Or could they? Do they have free will? Does it matter that we have already survived to old age in the original timeline? okay, so bear with me. The first time 815 crashes and they go back in time, 1977 carries on in a new time line. But then we get to 2004. So what happens here? Does the SECOND timeline carry on in linear fashion for ever more? Well presumably, yes. But hang on. 815 might still crash. The survivors might flash back to 1954, or 1974, or whenever. So oh Shit. Does that mean we've now got three time lines? and the third time line goes on in a linear fashion from 1977, for ever more. But again a plane crashes, and some time travellers go back to 1974, and we have a fourth time line, and... ad infinitum. Could this be what Jacob and MIB knew about when they talked about progress on the beach? They have a consciousness that can see all these different timelines, or can remember them, or whatever? This is the loop Jacob wants to perpetuate, and this is the loop Smokey wants to end, to go home, to just one time line? And they disagree as to how to interpret the rules? But the rules are basically what you don't fuck with if you don't want reality to get very very crazy very very quickly? And Faraday is just a genius who can see different permutations of how physics could apply depending on what the rules actually happen to be, he just doesn't have the experience to realise that all permutations could apply? And in the end, there will be some kind of Quantum Physics, magic box, Schroedinger's Cat moment where somebody has to play God and decide what in hell to observe as the truth of what is going on, not to follow the rules, but to realise it's totally out of hand and to DECIDE the rules? And I'm not pulling this out of my ass, nor any of the other posts. I've seen enough on screen to speculate on this as a legit possibility. Some people round here seem to think they they have a monopoly on what people can infer from the show and what they can't. I love that hilariously arrogant post where somebody on here said he sees at least one thing each week he hadn't already thought of. Wow. Just wow. Good luck with the autism, mate.
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That could explain Desmond's visions of Charlie. He's seeing different versions of what could / does / might / did / will happen, etc.
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Whatever happened, happened.
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you must mean rizzo when ya speak of monopoly... he shoots down theories as if he was writin for the show... "there is no two realities!!!"
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And yet 815 crashed. That happened. And yet we've just seen 815 not crash. So what happened? I seem to remember some pretty heavy debate and disagreement about that What Happened Happened mantra between characters last season. I think the jury is definitely still out, wouldn't you say? Or has there always been a timeline where 815 crashed, and always been a time line where 815 did not crash? In which case, how many time lines are there? Does it even mean anything to say that something happened? Maybe everything happened. And maybe nothing happened. It seems to me a key rule for anybody with a bit of sense might be HOLY SHIT MAN TIME TRAVEL IS FUCKING DANGEROUS.
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We didn't know anything about time traveling or a nuke specifically being on the island back in Season 2. What if the button pressing was to vent the residual radiation from the nuke blast that was trapped in the electromagnetic pocket? Or maybe the nuke caused it. As long as they kept pressing the button the island would not be destroyed or sunk. The flash after Desmond used the failsafe was a different color and significantly longer than any other flashes we have seen. So while a lot of the energy had already been released but Desmond opened the flood gates for a ton of the rest of the radiation when he failed to press the key and used the failsafe. Maybe the island is slowly sinking now, it's days are numbered and both MIB and Jacob know that, but can't do anything about it?
So Jacob may have known about MIB's loophole and didn't care as he didn't want to be last care-taker of a sinking island? MIB just wants to escape before his life is over?
Just a thought. -
The reason Crow only sees one thing each week he hadn't thought of is because he ignores stuff he hadn't thought of because people must be pulling it out of their ass if he didn't already think of it. Because, you know, if he didn't see evidence on screen for speculation, it like, totally couldn't possibly be there. Crazy. Totally crazy, man.
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"at least one thing" I learn plenty. You're just attacking every little thing like a little kid with a grudge. I don't give a shit about you rosagirl. You're being such a douche for no reason. I've contributed to legitimate conversation and great questions just as much as anyone.
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Crows own speculation. Which is obviously 100% top notch shit based on cast iron deductive logic, and not at all retarded or pulled out of anyone's rectum, except possibly LOST's rectum, because Crow has his head stuck so far up LOST's rectum he knows exactly what it had for dinner last night and precisely what's it's going to shit tomorrow.
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Speaking in the 2007 timeline, Richard says he watched the 815'ers die at the Swan Hatch.He can assume he witnessed 'The Incident' and that he thought Jack et al were killed (when in actual fact, the were propelled through time again).It seems like it has ALWAYS happened this way.The Alt timeline of 2004 may have ALWAYS been the result.But to what end?Will the flow course-correct itself?Fuck knows. I could just be talking utter shite. Wouldn't be the first time. =/
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Was the stroppy bullshit apology where you acted all indignant then made a bunch of snide remarks anyway. Dial down the arrogance matey!
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Peaks being where I mainly know David Lynch from.While it's plausible, as you say, that the records were left in the house that James and Juliet played house in after their three years there - especially if they're still there in 2007 - deadkitty's theory of them being the property of the original Dharma bums was that the Initiative arrived in '75 (when everything comes alive) and the LP came out in '73, meaning it would have been a relatively current release and new acquisition in '75.Let's just hope Ford had enough hipster taste to snag Chang's Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson records.Hey, that just may be the answer to Kitty's other "whose theme song was it" question. Think of it as a vaudeville duo: Search & Destroy. Sawyer is "Search", NonLocke is "Destroy"....and they're cops. on ice. And this time it's personal!
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However, if Ford moved back in to New Otherton in 2007 and the whole town was abandoned after the Freighties onslaught, who's to say with certainty that the house and the record are linked. Entire abandoned village plus a con man who used to scavenge through dead folks luggage to get a salable monopoly on scripts meds and paperbacks. So who'd put it past him to go on a search (but not destroy) mission to round up all the liquore and good music.Let's just hope ford had enough hipster taste to snag Chang's Johnny Cash records.Hey, that just may be the answer to Kitty's other "whose themesong was it" qustion. Think of it as a vaudeville duo: Search & Destroy. Sawyer is "Search", NonLocke is "Destroy"....and they're cops. on ice. And this time it's personal!
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No, Shonda Rhimes is no Darlton. But yes, I'm so old that the only romance in my life are soap operas. and Callie and Violet get me hot.
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THE LEGION OF...POOM!
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love the thought people give this show, can't and don't want to imagine the hole that will be left after this amazing series is over.
Reading the Talisman at the moment by King and Straub, love the book at the momemt (just arrived at the Black Hotel for those who have read it) and whilst reading it makes me think a lot about Lost, not just because the main character's name is Jack Sawyer. The alternate world , the Territories, the alternate versions etc.
Would love to see a TV series based on Talisman, 12 eps would be would be great.
When reading the Talisman I keep thinking will there be any one of our Losties who can travel between the alternative worlds. Desmond became the obvious answer, especially with Des's appearance on the plane. -
Our LOST meetup group is running a Twin Peaks marathon Saturday. I've only seen a few full eps here and there. Looking forward to it
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I'm picking up Dark Tower this week. But I read the Stand when I was 15. I really need to re-read it, but I've seen it on cable like 20 times since.
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http://neverseenlost.wordpress.com/
It's reviews of the current Lost season by someone who has never seen a single episode before. Awesome. Also, I still think that Adam and Eve are the smoke monster's original human form (Titus Welliver) and whoever his lost love is. The stones in the pouch connected to the stones in the cave make me think this is so.
Also, in all three aired episodes of the season Henry Ian Cusick's name has been outside of it's regular alphabetical order in the opening credits. Because he is special? -
Was definitely out of alphabetical order last week. Cusick should be before deRavin but he was afterwards. But I thought he was in the correct place Weeks one and this week?
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Richard said the 815'ers died?
Or did he talk to Sun about the Dharma Initiative saying he saw THEM die?
Cause earlier in the TB, we mentioned he was talking about the PURGE. Not flight 815. Cause arent they alive still? He and Sawyer...in the jungle...Richard...a little scared...working on that novel still Brian? -
And as much as I keep thinking about who would play the updated Jacob and Esau:
Locke vs Jack
Jack vs Sawyer
Locke vs Ben
Jack vs Ben
Lapidus vs Sayid
I keep thinking how bad Jack sucks and so:
Hurley vs Sawyer
that would be the most satisfying for me.
No wait, make that:
Kate vs Claire (sorry Juliet)
wrestling on the beach -
What lost love? MIB mentioned the woman he lost? Or are you just saying MIB has felt love? Cause it didnt go any farther than that.
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And as much as I keep thinking about who would play the updated Jacob and Esau:
Locke vs Jack
Jack vs Sawyer
Locke vs Ben
Jack vs Ben
Lapidus vs Sayid
I keep thinking how bad Jack sucks and so:
Hurley vs Sawyer
that would be the most satisfying for me.
No wait, make that:
Kate vs Claire (sorry Juliet)
wrestling on the beach -
Read that (finally) about 3 months ago, absolutely loved it. King knows how to write characters, and has got one of the most creative minds on this planet (probably number 2 for me after Hayao Miyazaki).
Reading book like the Stand, The Talisman or Dark Tower series, you can completely understand how this does influence Darlton and the like.
Have heard about JJ making a Dark Tower movie series, but I still think the way to go with these is a TV series, the quality of some of the stuff on HBO or AMC or FX.
Anyway I need stuff to fill the Lost void after May, The Stand, The Talisman, The Dark Tower series would be awesome, additionally coming back to another Lost connection Y The Last Man by BKV, would make a brilliant TV series. -
and get Lance Henriksen to play the part.
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Ed Harrrrley!
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But I think Smokie was much much younger when he was killed and became a daemon, a spirit (whatever you want to call it)
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I thought he mentioned love along with fear and all the other emotions he has felt. And he mentioned he lost someone he cares about as well.
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http://tinyurl.com/yezpyjn Check out this video from Important Things with Demetri Martin. It's pretty funny.
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Last I heard D.J. Caruso was making Y:The Last Man as a feature. Did that fall through? Cuz that'd be great. Eagle Eye sucked ass.
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that Titus Welliver was the original smoke monster supreme or if he's just another skin suit? I always just assumed Titus was the first iteration but I suppose it could be anybody. Like Abaddon?
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MIB just talked about having feelings in general. So, who knows. I want a Richard ep and a Vincent ep!
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I don't assume Titus was the original. Maybe he's the original but maybe not, he could just as well be what you call a skin suit. Which is why I was saying we don't know smokey's gender for 100% certain.
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i like that. not bad at all....
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and a Vincent up, but also maybe an ep from the point of the smoke monster starting during the landing of the Black Rock. Does any one know if next week is a specific centric episode?
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Yeah, even tho I put out it was a joke, people keep bringing it up. So, LOP baby!
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I saw a clip on Doc Arzt's. It looks like it Jack-centric
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are we the crappy animated bad guys from the early 80's OR the the bad guy tag team from the early 80's managed by Paul Ellering??
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I just realized, you know who hasn't posted in awhile is Kurt Lockwood. He always had an interesting theory to throw out. Probably too busy banging.
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The Legion of...Meh...lol. we just pwned them!!! i just love me some intraweb slang...
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All I know is we all sit around our computers, talk about LOST and then all have to threaten the talk back... *Justice League* about whether or not we will push the button every 108 minutes; thus saving the talkback.
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lotta trolls out today, weren't there? I almost think Coughlin's is fucking with us Andy Kaufman style.
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All of our favorite trolls 6 screen names. Did you read that some fool thought Me and McFaux were the same user? Isnt Faux in the UK?
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But I will try and remember to sign Toughguyrizzo
Legion of POOM!
lol -
Yeah, the whole sequence in the hatch was just that Desmond had to post a comment in a talkback every 108 minutes. Ha! That's awesome.
And for the record, I am not a troll, and thus not in the Legion of Meh. However, I am kind of a dick sometimes. Just sayin... -
It's all good bro.
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they will come back and try to defend their MEHATUDE to us!! ohh no lol. Faux is from the UK i believe Rizz. little known fact 1: did u know that...if a Troll doesnt question a SANE TB'ERs heterosexuality every 108 minutes they run around their moms house screamin-- DONT TELL ME WHAT I CANT POST!!!! ah...food for thought...
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Tru that. Yup. And as if anyone has read the TB above, we've been incredibly civil without them.
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Awhile ago.
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Looks like not a lot of Trolls today?
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I had an epiphany today. I used to be "that guy". Always crying for the answers, always complaining, not enjoying the show. But today it all came together, when I realized what will happen in the finale episode and how Lost will end. I won't post that here, this isn't the place for super-spoilers.
The point is, the whole "it's all about the characters" thing isn't a writer-ly excuse, it's the key to the whole thing. Sure, I want answers too, but look at it this way: if you're too uptight about not knowing the answers, you're not getting the point of the show. This seasons theme is even: don't rail against the past/accept things for what they are. Which applies to life, AND THIS SHOW. When all is said and done, it will be apparent that the "mysteries" didn't really matter that much (not really what the show was about). If/when you watch the show again after seeing it all, the second go-round won't be to understand the story better, or some Sixth Sense sort of twist that changes everything. You will watch it for the peeps that we have been watching all along. Like watching Twin Peeks. Do we really care that the Black Lodge was never explained? No, we watch the shows for the interaction of the characters, the dialogue, etc.
In other words, it will be apparent at the end that the show isn't about Dharma, or Ben vs. Widmore, or Smokey or Jacob, it's about our Losties and their journey and their destiny.
For the record, I don't think the finale will be mind-blowing, but it will be cool, and it will still be worth it. -
Hi-larity! You guys are cracking me up tonight. Well played.
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to the key mysteries did he? unless you know jacob, you don't know shit. i still think ben may have a trick up his sleeve. since the first season ive always said that sawyer would be the last man standing when the finale finally gets here. i could be completely wrong but its just a hunch. gretchen bleiler is hot.
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The absence of Walt, I know is unavoidable given the actor's growth spurt, would most people be against them using a different actor for that character, any thoughts ?
For me his absence from the end of Lost, will probably be the most disappointing, given how "special" he was in the first couple of seasons.
I am sure in an alternative timeline where the Nazis won, they have cloned their child actors or ensured through chemicals that they don't grow up -
On one hand, I wouldn't mind seeing another kid cast as Walt so that we get to see him and his dad together. But on the other hand, recasts always kinda tarnish the character, I feel like. What I'd prefer to see is maybe not an entire episode with Michael and Walt, but a scene where they interact with another LOSTie in the alternate timeline and made so that they can use old footage of Walt from the plane, smiling and happy, but focus on Michael during the scene. Know what I mean? I'm actually disappointed we didn't see them on the plane, but I'm hoping we'll see them soon.
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or in a Flasf Sideways and get some explination. But if not I would still be happy. I would bet though that Darlton has something up their sleves.
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A Teacher with Locke and Ben? Probably something else though since he never really interacted with ether of then on island.
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Still, the alternate 2004 timeline stuff is different. It's always possible in that timeline that Michael had a kid earlier in his life. We may get to see a scene with Michael and a 16 or so year old Walt. I would rather see that and suspend my disbelief than see them recast the character.
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They said he would at Comic-Con, but that could change.
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Booyah, that'd be awesome.
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And that's how the two timelines are reconciled. Walt was projecting himself through different realities. BOOYAH!
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The timelines will not "converge", but one timeline will effect the other. Oops, I've said too much.
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Feb 18, 2010 11:14:29 PM CST
So when will ether Sun or Claire visit baby doctor Juliet?
by paburrows
Or maybe Juliet has to operate on Jack or Jack operates on Ben?
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I always thought that maybe the Smokey Monster gave Ben cancer somehow. Or the cancer came from the island. Part of all the machinations. From not being on the island all that time, maybe Ben never gets sick and doesn't need to be operated on.
Of course, the universe has a way of course-correcting itself... -
And Eko and Yemi come to LA on a Missionary trip.
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I like Vader's idea. Since they were introducing the fact that the alternative LA X reality is "different" - Shannon not on board and so on - They could have just shown us Michael and Taller Walt on the plane to illustrate that fact in a big way - literally.
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The Watcher - not the guy from Fringe, but the narrator of Marvel's Tales of the Watcher and What If? series - would say that whatever happened both did and didn't happen. And what didn't happen doesn't negate what did.Darlton was quoted above a ways as objecting to the term "alternate reality" but I don't think he grasps the concept that two or more realities can be equally "real". To reference something the older skiffy fans will remember, I don't think the Star Trek "Mirror Mirror" universe characters considered themselves "alternate" versions of the real Kirk, Spock, Sisko and Nerys, etc. Of course their reality wasn't created by a single moment of divergence like The Watcher's "what ifs" or by a transcendent event (like Juliet whacking the sonofabitch with a rock).After seeing it flashedback to about four times in the season premiere, I was hoping that every single week the "previously on Lost" recap would include Juliet pounding Jugheads fuse with a rock and shouting "sunnavabitch!"
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...nobody has called bleeding hands boy/Jacob Jr/ghost of Jacob/"the boy" The Johnny Whitaker Kid? So it was just me, huh?Let's just hope he doesn't turnout to be Lost's Cousin Oliver. Or its Wesley Crusher.And to reiterate a thought posted above, who wants to bet on how many episodes from the end we'll get before Darlton will STOP INTRODUCING NEW CHARACTERS?
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one, unlike what i thought, MIB can't be a pirate from the Black Rock because he saw it coming that time. two, faraday was wrong, because desmond kept changing time by saving charlie, even as he exasperatingly said he couldn't keep doing it. three, what about Des' vision of claire getting on a helicopter? yet to come? four, were certain names not ON the wall, or just not visible (see: Kate)? fifth, does anyone have screenshots of all the names? it would be interesting to see them all. sixth, jack's sideburns defy continuity in the past and "alternate" timelines. seventh, widmore needs to come back. Eighth, if the island can move anywhere, why wouldn't it go into the arctic? (some would say that's where the polar bear came from, but i think it was still walt). ninth, why wouldn't Walt come back to the island to lead it? 10th, smokey only appeared as alex BEFORE ben killed jacob. 11th...the jacob/esau thing has some validity. But it was Jacob who tricked Isaac into giving him the birthright. Esau never killed Jacob. Jacob's descendants became slaves in the land of egypt. 12th...Esau had a hairy chest. Is this relevant to the discussion?
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cat.
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The question has arisen, when the show we gather her to love has finished it's run, will we ever see it's like again? What will fill the void in out hearts and lives?I am old, and it seems to me there have always been shows that pushed boundaries, broke rules, tweaked societies sensibilities, showed us something we had never seen before, and developed a loyal cult following.You might cite other examples or disagree with some of mine, but there has always been a Star Trek, Prisoner, Fawlty Towers, Mary Hartman Mary Hartman, Max Headroom, Cop Rock, Xena, NYPD Blue, Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, Venture Brothers, Book of Daniel, Wonderfalls, Fringe and Mad Men and Breaking Bad and Saving Grace.Each a show that inspired strong feelings both from those that loved it and those that hated it.Lost has raised the high water mark for fan involvement and dedication in a time when the internet bloomed and such things as show-specific web sites and blogs and viral videos were novel - other shows have learned that you can't simply generate that kind of magic by buying a few websites.What will catch the fancy or either the general populace or the elite next, after Lost, is something yet thought of, something that will yet again reinvent fire and spread from viewer to fan to obsessive cultist like a virus. And we can't know what it is yet, or wether utilizing hi-def and 5.1 Dolby and the around the corner 3-D TV technology will be a key component that will place a wall between the show and the poor who cannot afford the new technologies.We an speculate that it may involve science fiction or fantasy, deal with moral issues, have attractive cast members, portray a utopian cross section of the population, involve mysteries and cliff hangers to keep bringing viewers back week after week, feature action, violence and death as well as love and sex and romance. And a flying moped. But other than that, we can not know what the future will hold and what the next big thing will be. Except the person or people who have the idea that allows them to create the next big thing and then bets on it. They'll know, and they'll make a fortune.[Hint: no, it won't be FlashForward. And it might not be Fringe unless their next few seasons just keep getting better and better...]
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*VikkiMars - flying mopeds ridden by nunja's (half nun, half ninja) with guns.
The practical physics of it, the atomic blast wouldn't sink the island. The Castle Bravo test showed that. How it would interact with a 'volcanic' tube...hmmpf. interesting. unknown. Is the Island a big hollow shell? Like an egg? I think the volcano might have been involved too, or rather something tectonic.
But, feature, if what Richard said was true, and Non-John wants everyone dead. Two things:
1) It would indicate that folks there. now. on the Island. are 'alive'.
2) If that is Non-John's mission, in seeing the Island sunk, you'd tend to believe he succeeded in the happy flash-sideways. iteration. Or did he?
And remember in the World what Dave was trying to get Hurley to do? Leave. What if Non-John turns out to actually be.... Dave.
..Dave's not here. -
I drew and co-wrote the comic book Adventures of the MoPed Cowboy, hence the flying moped reference. Nunja is brilliant. Trying to think of nun comics, only Dave Sheridan's Tales of the Leather Nun and Chuck Dixon's Evangeline come to mind.I believe there is a volcano on the Island, so at least part of the base must be hollow.My Non-John you must mean Smokey/Nemesis. He took the guise of NonLocke when DeadLocke returned to the island in 2007 Island reality time, but the Island is sunken in 2004 LA X time. So in LA X reality zone Smokey may have succeeded in killing everyone on the island (which, as I recall, was also Keamy's mission - with the exception of retrieving Linus alive) but if so, Smokey sank it before becoming UnLocke. Unless The Island and LA X are in two different time zones. (Which I'm sure literally tey are, but I'm referring to matters of years, not hours.>[>Unless you're on board with the theory that the 2007 Island adventures lead up to the sinking which causes the reset that creates the LA X continuity.And that boggles me so much I prefer to wait and see what Darlton have up their sleeves, rather than trying to work it out longhand.
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"there has always been a Star Trek, Prisoner, Fawlty Towers, Mary Hartman Mary Hartman, Max Headroom, Cop Rock, Xena, NYPD Blue, Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, Venture Brothers, Book of Daniel, Wonderfalls, Fringe and Mad Men and Breaking Bad and Saving Grace..."Purely subjective, of course, your actual mileage may vary. But, although such a list could never be complete (or please everyone) I MUST add Arrested Development and Spongebob Squarepants. And Doctor Who.And I've heard that Battlestar Galactica revamp was rather popular, too. Likewise X-Files, pre-shark-jump.
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You'll all see!
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Shocking what combining a typo with that stuff can do.After that I speculated that there's a volcano on the island, so at least part of the base is hollow. Then I questioned if "NonLocke sank the island. Because Nemesis/Smokey took the form of UnLocke after the body of Deadlocke arrived on the island in 2007 in the on Island continuity, but the Island was already sunk in 2004 LA X time. And though I know The Island and LA X are in different time zones literally, it wold be a difference of years, not hours. And if Nemesis/Smokey sank the island before 2004 LA X time, that was before he became UnSmockeAt which point I conceded the possibility That the parallel adventures are linear though cyclical - that is, the events in 2007 and later lead to the sinking and a time jump that causes the reset that results in the creation of the LA X altiverse. But, as I said, it boggles.
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after name checking UG Comix artist Dave Sheridan and Evangeline the killer nun, I said "Hmm, Dave and Evangeline, why do those names sound familiar?Then I mentioned the volcano and the hollow base theory. Pointed out that Smokey/Nemesis didn't become NonLocke until 2007 when the body of DeadLocke arrived on the Island. Suggested that if Nemesis sank the island in the LA X continuity in 2004, that was before he became UnSmocke. Joked about The Island and LA X being in different time zones. Conceded the possibility that NonLocke/Nemesis/Smokey sinks the island in 2007 or later and causes a time event that causes the reset that creates the LA X continuity. And admitted it boggles the mind.
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why it took three tries to get that into print. hardly worth the bother. I'm going to bed now. Namaste.
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I nominate "Unlocke" as the term of choice.
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Because this ep just oooooozed of Stephen Kingfluence. Smocke's POV shot, and him recruiting Sawyer, set to the tune of a overtly symbolic rock song? Probably two of the most spot on visualizations of the feel of Kings prose I have ever seen. And that's mostly a good thing (though I felt the Sawyer, whiskey and Iggy scene, cool as it was, was a bit ham-fisted). Lost has been a lot more to me than just a King tribute, though. And even though MiB is turning out to be the great Randall Flagg of our beloved show, I hope (and have faith) that our Lost boys will one-up the King, and give him more ambiguity and nuance than Flagg had in the Stand. Because that's my major (and only) gripe with that novel, and King's writing in general (haven't read the Dark Tower except for the first one): his perception of evil as an absolute, a force of nature, is sort of banal, dramatically dull and not emotionally resonant. I want to be able to relate to and empathize with my bad guys. But it seems like TPTB have more in store with MiB. After all, he only wants to go home, and he was on the verge of tears when recalling Locke’s dying thoughts. Ideally, we'll never get a definite answer to who's the bad guy of Jaco and Smocke, they'll just represent two sides of the dichotomy, without either one being more good/right than the other. That's how they've handled their protagonists and antagonists in previous seasons, and I have faith that that's how it'll turn out in the end too.
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...or shit, somebody named Phil Dick, should make a cameo in the LA X timeline. That would be such an amazing tribute.
So LA X is not an ALT reality. Maybe it's the TRUE reality beneath the false one. Ehh, maybe... -
Lost is like a Stephen King (for me the greatest fiction writer alive) novel, full of mythology and some of the most interesting and importantly flawed characters.
Have you read Under the Dome ?, great read and love his nod to Lost -
The Island is like VALIS, has incarnations like Sophia
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Just checking in. No major thoughts now. All good convos. Got some great NYC LOST meetup news I hope to share soon. Really good shit.
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had to reread your comment about Lain, didnt know so many people had seen it, definetely one of the better stories and anime, good to see I wasn't the only one who watched it
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Feb 19, 2010 9:51:47 AM CST
paburrows: Daniel will be fucking dumb college students.
by royston lodge
In his flash-sideways, he's Rip Torn's character from The Man Who Fell To Earth.
Wakka wakka! -
So the numbers are the core values of the Valezetti equation. Changing one of them prevents end of mankind. So if Smokey Locke gets one of the candidates to change to his side, is that changing one of the 'core values' of the candidates?
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A really funny heartless jerk, but a heartless jerk nonetheless!
I didn't think that episode made fun of people with Down's Syndrome. It makes fun of Chris for being a borderline retard. -
Feb 19, 2010 10:05:06 AM CST
Darkocity: Family Guy didn't use the words "retard" or "retarded
by royston lodge
And it never used the words "Down's Syndrome" in a derogatory sense. The episode never made fun of the Ellen character, except for the fact that she happens to be really bossy.
Stewie sort of makes fun of Chris for having a crush on someone with Down's Syndrome, but that's more a comment on the fact that Stewie is a douche (He used to be an evil mastermind, now he's just a douche. Times change, eh?)
The Palin joke was one throwaway line designed to elicit a response and get some free publicity. Governor Palin jumped on it because it gives her some free publicity if she runs for the RNC nomination.
Everytime Hollywood makes fun of Palin, her ratings among the Republican base goes up. That's why she goes on shows like Saturday Night Live and why she does interviews with hostile journalists.
I'm not saying that's a good strategy for her, cuz she needs more than just the Republican base to win, but that's why she does it. -
I keep re-reading "Cosmogony and Cosmology" from Dick's selected philosophical writings, and man, it's blowing my mind. LOST would seem to be using PKD's Exegesis like some kind of key or primer. Fascinating stuff. http://tinyurl.com/65qnhl
Gotta be ZEBRA all the way. The Island seems to be the world-projecting Artifact which must be disobeyed and overcome by Humanity (Losties) so they can merge (after they're all Judged by Ol' Smoky of course) with the Urgrund/Creator (Jacob) in the new reality (LA X). The Real reality, as Jacob will nullify the false one when he destroys the Island. Just an idea that no doubt will continue permutating as the season plows ahead, but I'm sticking with it for the most part. -
Unless you wanna review "Who's Nailin' Palin" then knock this shit off. I however would love a Lisa Anne TB. I have the DVD. Its. Good. Shit. This "aint" the place for politics people.
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I even added a little Stewie in a previous post. Kinda...about Brians novel...still working on it...almost finished...taking you time..
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Its all good. Just surprised I guess.
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Now I sucked at Algebra, so correct me if I'm getting it wrong. X is a Variable. So in LOST, X = The Characters( as Daniel said). LA X, or LA=X (the Characters are Angels). I don't fucking know. Just playing around with X cause Darlton said it had a meaning. Now, please don't get angry at my speculation and like jay2517 said...Don't tell me what I can't post!
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Never banned....at least not yet
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In fact, the girl with Down Syndrome came across as a very intelligent and normal girl. There was nothing wrong about her, except she had to make Chris be polite to her.
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I think in private, you can say whatever the Hell you want, and kudos to him for trying to put the Democratic party in its place and get rid of all the stupid petty squabbling. I have no problem with what he said really.
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I don't believe it myself, but the possibility occurred to me that maybe the plane crash itself awoke the island. In other words the island was underwater from the incident in 1977 until the electromagnetism or Jacob or whatever reached out and caused the crash in 2004. That Des et al was "created" by Jacob as a backstory.
I think I'd hate this, and don't believe it, but could it be a possibility? -
Hmmm, maybe. The Island itself could be exercising it's will to live by altering the future to ensnare the Losties and avert it's own inevitable destruction. Or the Island really is Cthulhu and he's just hungry after waking from his Aeonic nap at the bottom of the Pacific.
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I think "this island isn't special, it's just an island" was one of the only honest thing Locke said. I think that everything crazy on the island can be attributed to the incredibly powerful individuals on it. Therefore 815 would've have been brought by Jacob or MIB or the third unknown party.
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Believe it
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We are the causes of our own suffering.
EVERYTHING CHANGES -
YOUR LIFE
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Sarah Palin's Room 23.
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Feb 19, 2010 11:18:15 AM CST
Plant a good seed and you will joyfully gather fruit.
by theumpirestrokesbach
"The wise know how to use time and space perfectly; they lead free and harmonious lives. Retards are enslaved by time and space; they are busy running around all day. Wise or foolish, the difference is obvious." - Buddhist Perspective on Time and Space
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Yeah, the character work is what reminds me most of King. Archetypes, but complex and compelling. Haven't read dome yet. Saving it for a vacation. King is perfect for lazy days in the sun. Is Lost an important part of the book, or is it just a small reference?
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Maybe they think she's like the Anti-Buddha or some shit. Which would make her kid The Beast. Now there's only one part missing from this Unholy Trinity...
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REPENT! THE END IS EXTREMELY FUCKING NIGH!
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But it brought back too many painful memories of my Summer. Who actually grew up with my Autumn.
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Does not refer to someone with Down Syndrome. Just as calling someone an idiot or moron doesn't refer to someone with Down Syndrome either.
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Oopsie Daisy.
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As long as no one minds I thought I might try to steer things back into a more Lost-oriented direction...this TB as always has some very interesting thoughts on the show, so props to all for holdin up some good discussion (well, until it gets inevitably sidetracked anyway). The one thing that someone wrote that really piqued my interest was that if the island sunk in '77 as a result of the bomb going off, how could the castaways have appeared in '54 or '74-'77? This is where the time travel stuff gets really complicated and confusing...I subscribe to the idea that in our "orginal" timeline, "whatever happened, happened" - as in, there was no version of '54/'74-'77 that didn't include the castaways. So I totally dig that Jack, et. al had historically appeared on the island well prior to crashing there, and indeed in most of their cases, before they were even born (in the earliest chronological time flashes). BUT, logically speaking this can only be consistent with the timeline where they do crash on the island, because that's how they ended up time traveling. Furthermore, them setting off the bomb was clearly dependent on them time-traveling. So, in the X-timeline, how could they possibly have set off the nuke and sunk the island when they can't have even been there to begin with? Wouldn't that indicate that the island had sunk at a much earlier point in time, with all their time-flashing history having been negated? Except that Dharma housing was built on the island, meaning the island can't have sank prior to the early '70s when Dharma showed up... The one way I can think of to reconcile this is that the other timeline really had no prior history before the bomb went off...or that it shared history with the original timeline before splitting into two "streams" ala the Faraday deleted scene from last season. Which is crazy though, because in that case the castaways who sank the island in the X-timeline were actually our original timeline castaways who performed some kind of strange dimension-hop...I hope that makes sense somewhat. Their actions in the original timeline actually became part of the history for the X-timeline, even though they are from the original - so theres already some precedence for bleed-through from one timeline to the other, either that or it's difficult how to make sense of it all. All of this is to say, basically, that although I feel pretty strongly that the nuke is what caused the split, I'm curious to see how this issue is addressed...and I hope that it is addressed. And as for the "least important question of the episode" as posed above, which I must address because I love the album "Raw Power" and all things Stooges, I think the record belonged to Sawyer when he lived in that house and Dharma probably had all the latest albums and books and stuff shipped in pretty regularly. The truly amazing thing is that that record is from '73! Sounds more "raw" than anything since! I did like the thematic relevance of the lyrics to "Search and Destroy"...people already mentioned "the world's forgotten boy", "the one who searches to destroy", but what about "honey gotta help me please...somebody's gotta save my soul!"...certainly applicable to Sawyer as well, but maybe also foreshadowing/suggesting that Smokey/MIB's apparent need to "recruit" people to help him "save his soul" by escaping the island? Or maybe I'm reading into things too much...
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Smokey as the Shroud of Jughead?
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"Retarded" has moved beyond the medical definition, just as "idiot" and "moron" have.
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Like David Bowie.
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Someone else above (WAY above) brought up the fact that the island is not at the same time as the rest of the world. Now we know that it APPEARED and acted as if it was only five minutes (or 20, can't remember) offset from the real world. But what if it is more? A LOT more.
What if when they were on the island and we think it is 1977 because that is what it is on the outside of the island....it is really 1145 B.C. or some other really obscure date?The act of traveling to the island takes you back in time, even though communication is possible. This is how the island could be sunk, if it is, and appear to be sunk present day, without some of the paradox problems.
This could also make the island Atlantis without making that the entire focus of the series. -
Look out honey, cause I'm using technology!
So far, every song choice on LOST has been closely tied thematically to the events transpiring. Only hinting at various ideas indirectly. "Shambala" comes to mind, so does "Scentless Apprentice", and especially "Where is my Mind". This usage of "Search and Destroy" is no different in my mind. -
I thought that was well established from Shannon's comment about Locke being his new boyfriend in S1. He had some crazy obsession of her, but I don't think he wanted to bone her.
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whats happened to Room 23 with Fishy a Barfy??? i liked chatting in there.
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Which ep had "Where Is My Mind?" I remember "Gouge Away" which Jack was listening to on his way to the funeral parlor (in the first version of the scene he's listening to Scentless Apprentice, the second time they show it it's Gouge Away, not sure why it's different) but don't remember Where Is My Mind...just curious. And good call on the "runaway son of a nuclear a-bomb"...perhaps referring to the entire X-timeline? Lost is definitely pretty great with the song choices.
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They didn't change Jack's music. When he goes to the funeral parlor the FIRST time, during the day, he's listening to Nirvana. The second time, at night, is when he listens to The Pixies.
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Though I thought I saw a music video featuring LOST clips set to it on youtube.
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I don't doubt the hypocrisy would be there one bit. I mean, its there now, obviously.
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It was 'Gouge Away'. Was thinking of that LOST video that uses 'Where is my Mind'. Thanks for the correction.
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Right you are D.Vader...for some reason I had it in my head that the second scene was a re-showing/continuation of the first but it was definitely separate visits. Bearded Jack has pretty sweet taste in music if you ask me!
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"Hey ya'll who you came with, who you leavin' with?" Any body ever figure out who did that particular gem. It plays in 'Numbers' while Hurley's walking on the beach, and when he's driving his Ma to her new house. Such a silly sounding track, but goddamnit if it doesn't makes me laugh every time.
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I just discovered Lostpedia has a page listing songs used in episodes and unfortunately that particular one is on their list of unidentified songs...so I guess it must be pretty obscure. Bummer :-(
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This is on Lostpedia's main page over in the 'Next time on LOST' box on the right. Any idea what those numbers mean? Am I a retard? I'm kinda stumped.
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Not sure what they represent but, if you click your mouse on them they jiggle slightly !!!
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What the fuck? Maybe it has something to do with that crazy ass hash code from a few weeks back.
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Why no official Lost podcast posted yet? Unless I missed it somewhere.
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"I've held a torch in the darkness to glance upon a truth unknown. An act of faith begun with an ineloquent certainty that my journey promised the chance, not just of understanding, but of recovery. That the disappearance of my sister, 23 years ago, would come to be explained. And that the pursuit of these greater truths ...might even reunite us. A belief which I now know to be false... and uninformed... in the extreme. My folly revealed by facts which illuminate both my arrogance and self-deception. If only the tragedy had been mine alone, might it be more easy tonight to bring this journey to its end." -Redux 5x02
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I want to believe they're coming...
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I know that Miss Fish is doing well though but busy.
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"My conviction remains intact that the mechanism by which Aboah killed and in turn survived, can only be explained by medical science and that science will eventually discover his place in the broader context of evolution. But what science may never be able to explain is our ineffable fear of the alien among us. A fear which often drives us — not to search for understanding — but to deceive, inveigle and obfuscate. To obscure the truth not only from others, but from ourselves." -Teliko 4x04
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He had sex with Shannon and in ether the same episode or another one he was on a date with another woman. Shannon just said that he was gay to make fun of him.
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Trust No Destiny Found...
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The identities of the skeltons in the cave have already been given away due to an easter egg in the "Not in Portland" ep. Google the anagrams for the backmasked phrase in the room 23 video for the spoiler on who they are.
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so we can specify the term under discussion, let me quote "Character formerly on a cop show" who referred to an idiot who "misused the verb retard as a noun"."Retarded" is a proper medical term. The word "retard" (re-TARRED) means to impede the forward progress 9of a thing). To call a mentally retarded person an impediment to forward progress is an insult. And to use a verb as a noun is an act of illiteracy.NONE OF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH P*L*T*CS. It is a simple matter of human decency and human dignity. People are both as they are. To use any condition people are born to as an insult - "That Conan O'Brien, he's such an albino" for example - is an insult to all persons in that category. And my apologies to any albinos here for using they in a hypothetical example.A few years ago I used a joke. "If African-Americans can reclaim the N-word and male homosexuals can use the fourth and fifth F-words (after f*ck, fr*g and f*rt)(the "British slang for cigarette" and the "bundle of sticks" ones), then it's okay to use the R-word since it makes clear that the person using the word is allowed to do so." The flaw with that joke is that it still uses the idea of being retarded as an insult. The fact is most handicapped people do not use derogatory slurs to describe their conditions.I have a friend who is the mother of a boy with Down's Syndrome and she would like everyone who uses the R-word to smash their testicles with a mallet so they cannot breed. Maybe then that form of ignorance will die out in a generation or two.I think that's a harsh attitude to take. I think it's a good idea for evil people filled with hate and bile to come out and identify themselves. If a person uses an N-word or R-word or 4th F-word (or, as mentioned earlier in this talkback, misuses the noun Jew as an adjective or, worse, a verb) then we should be grateful that the pig ignorant malefactor has identified himself (or herself, though that rarely applies in this forum) as someone whose words and thoughts are to be ignored because they simply do not count. In the song Heroin Lou Reed said "I have made a very big decision; I'm going to nullify my life." People who are filled with hate simply do not matter. People who chose to use the language of hate on a regular basis and in public forums have chosen to call attention to how small minded they are. They have nullified their existence.To summarize, it has nothing to do with Alaskans or political correctness. Using the R-word is simply the equivalent of being seen in public with the person wearing the "I'm with stupid" t-shirt. Or wearing a shirt of your own reading "I am not a decent human being: my opinions do not count."Another final thought. The language is elastic and ever changing. There will be some who think that when the brats on South Park say "that's so gay" they're not insulting the Gay community, simply redefining the word which once meant festive the same way the Gay community redefined it. And they may feel that it's common knowledge that when people say something or someone is the R-word it has nothing to do with the mentally handicapped, it's just a more strongly worded way of calling someone silly or an ingoramus or, as Bugs Bunny would say, a maroon. To them I reply that that's what I'm doing: redefining and reinventing the language, so that "someone who uses the R-word" now means "Someone of no importance whose opinions are of no value."Also, having sex with his sister doesn't prove Boone isn't gay - he could be Bi. NTTAWWT.
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Or "retarded" at least? That is the question
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on his new show...but they let Vic Mackey say "Suck my dick, you asshole" on The Sheild. Go figure.
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A lot of things, but discussing the semantics of the word "retard" should absolutely be on the top of everyone's list of ultra-relevant conversation topics. Maybe it's not as important in other nodes, but it's damn near essential in a LOST talkback.
So please, could some of you retards tell me when it's okay to use that word, or should I just check out Palin's Twitter or some shit to stay abreast of any developments concerning what could quite possibly be the defining issue of our time? -
who really gives a shit?? politics and/or the schematics of politics should be left out of ALL Lost tb's. kinda causes a unncar
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that was weird?? politics kinda causes a unnecessary rift between us civilized peeps. in other words, it turns everyone who disagrees with another person's party a trollish person somehow lol. lets just stick to Lost overall. there's plenty of other tb's on AINC for that TRUST ME....
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"Man, I already said
that it was not Conservative. It was from a derelict Liberals political career. We homed in on its Facebook."
"And found something never recorded once in over 400 surveyed
blogs or tweets. 'A Trig that gestates inside a living human host', these are your words, 'and has concentrated retard for blood.'"
"Look. I can see where this is going-"
"Thank you, Rahm Emanuel, that will be all."
"God dammit that's not all! Because if one of those retards gets down here
then that will be all! All this, this PC bullshit that you think is so
important, you can just kiss all that goodbye."
File status: Retarded
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The distinction is easy. "Retarded" describes a medical condition. If you call someone mentally retarded but are not describing a medical condition, simply using the term to insult a person's intelligence, some people find that offensive. I mean, I like Louis CK, hes a very talented comic. but what he actually using the term to describe a person with Downs syndrome, or was he using it as a pejorative derogatory slur?As for Vick Mackey or Andy Sipowicz or Grace Hanadarko saying "suck my dick, asshole", well, look at the statistics. 48.5% of the population is male and allowing for certain accidents or crimes of aggression and torture, probably 99% of them have dicks. Not sure on what percentage of all men are dicks; it may be as low as 90%. Do you remember when they gave you a carton of milk and a drinking straw in Kindergarten? that was the test. If you passed the test, then like over 98% of all people of either gender and sexual orientation, you suck. I did NOT mean to slip those last two words in there as a personal remark: so do I, so do we all. People suck. And you know what they say about opinions: like assholes, everyone has one. Again, allowing for extreme medical deformities, probably over 99.8% of everybody has an asshole, though the percentage of people who are assholes may (or may not) be slightly lower. So sucking, having or being a dick and having or being an asshole are almost universally applicable, so there really isn't that much about those things that anyone can find offensive. You are human. Ahh, you symmetrical biped. Air-breather. You are mostly water. See, these do not really register as insults no matter the tone of voice, because they are simply universal conditions.Some people on the PC fringes like to downplay words like disabled and handicapped, preferring "differently enabled" and other awkward constructs. But whether terms like "mentally challenged" or "developmentally slow" are insulting or not, the fact is that retarded people are at an intellectual disadvantage. And, well you know the old joke about having a war of wits with a disarmed opponent. Using words - using your mind - to insult people who are at a disadvantage to defend themselves is not only unfair, it is thug-like bullying. And using words identified as derogatory slurs in other contexts and claiming "Well, I'm not talking about them, I'm just using the term as a generic insult" still doesn't wash away the tarnish or excuse the offense.CB, you said 'go figure'. Well, that's how I figure it.T-Bolt, I suppose it's the "African American's can use the N-word, Gays can use that f-word" rule all over again, but I can't speak for them. I will have to ask my pal Phil, who is an excellent photographer, a fine interpretive dancer and has many close friends in the classes he attends who were born with the same condition he was. Except, obviously, I won't ask him - I would never say that word to him.I am not on a high horse here; I am not denying that I am a complete and utter douche nozzle. Simply that there are limbo lines on the wall marking how low I will go. I draw my line at being a scumbag; people who use the R-word go lower.Umpire, since I don't recall if I ever directly responded to any of your posts in the past, it will have no effect on you whatever if I ignore everything you have to say from here on out. Buh-bye.
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...make me sad.
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It was satire dude. Was poking fun at the derailing of this thread for posts about some bullshit Sarah Palin got her panties knotted up over. So please, calm the fuck down.
Quite frankly, I'd much rather be discussing LOST. Not really sure what you're getting at with all this soapboxing, but if it makes you happy...go for it. -
How it ends:We see Hurley sitting at a computer - state of the art circa 2005. LA X universe. He is talking to Dave. As he discusses what he has been writing we look over his shoulder at the screen and see that he is working on a script which he closes under the document title "LOST"."See, dude, it's about this plane that crashes on a magic island and the people who survive that crash and how their lives are inexplicably linked by fate or God or something. And there's all this trippy stuff, like a polar bear on a tropical island and this giant monster make out of black smoke that people think is a security device made out of nanobots but actually turns out to be an ancient godling in an altered form. You know, an enigma in a riddle in a conundrum, every time the audience thinks they have something figured out we throw something else at them and change everything, and we keep killing off old characters and introducing new ones and in the final act we have two parallel realities existing simultaneously showing different ways these characters lives could have turned out. Totally trippy."Then Hugo's mom and dad come in to bring him his lunch and ask him "who are you talking to?' and he looks at the chair but Dave's not there, and he says "Oh, just thinking out loud."Then an off camera voice says "Cut, that's a take." and the camera pulls back and we see that Hurley and his parents aren't in a room, they're on a stage set, and we see the lights and technicians and another camera, and Hurley and his dad refer to one another as Jorge and Mr. Marin. We learn that they are filming the story of Lost, which includes the story of how the story was written and all the characters were based on this circle of friends whose lives seemed inexplicably linked to the writers, and the LA X reality is closely based on the true reality of the writer and his friends while the Island story is a roman a clef fantasy inspired by their personalities.[poom] - LOST
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Other than Mr. O'Quinn, quite a few of the people on Lost are, well, best known for Lost. Well, other than Matt "Party of Five" Fox and Evangeline "Phone Sex chat line ad" Lilly.Those of you who came to Lost as TV fans, as opposed to Sci-Fi fans or fantasy fans, may have heard the term "Seinfeld Curse". In which most of the cast members of Seinfeld had difficulty finding other properties to successfully star in. (Patrick "Puddy" Warburton being a notable exception, with Jerry Stiller having a long run on King of Queens and Julia Louis Dreyfuss landing a fairly successful sit-com on her 2nd or3rd try. Or you may be aware of "cursed" performers who get every show their on canceled - Jump The Shark's patron saint Ted McGinley, or the lovely Rena Sofer, for example.Well, what are the predictions for the Lost cast? Considering that Matthew and Evangeline have both announced their intentions to retire or take extended hiatuses from acting. Considering that Harold "Michael" Perrineau's series "The Unusuals" was canceled. Considering that FlashForward (with "Libby" and "Charlie") and "V" (with "Juliet" are both currently described as "bubble shows" (shows that may or may not be picked up for another season depending on how well their ratings improve)Which Lost cast regulars (not just recurring guests like Katey Sagal) do you expect to go one to if not greater than at least more things, and find relatively steady work. If any. And what roles would you like to see themin? And which, if any, Lost cast members do you expect to pretty much fall off the public radar and wind up in ten years as part of a "Whatever happened to the cast of Lost" trivia quiz?I can see Terry O'Quinn returning to film and stepping into a few Patrick Stewart roles. Hey, maybe they'll decide to "reboot" the X-Men franchise with a new Professor X.Oh, and if you look at other parts of AICN then the Lost talkbacks, you've already heard that "Jin" is in the Hawaii 5-O remake pilot.
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90 mph feet first or head first, on ice. insane and awesome.
Dead Kitt -for fun workin on your Cursed List. -
Meh. Not really. Bc I'm pretty sure those pple aren't using it in any way that refers to people with Down's Syndrome. And I wonder, is it the people with Down's Syndrome who get offended, or everyone else who *think* they should get offended by it...
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Have you seen those commercials for the Dyson sphere vacuum cleaners? using the patented tornado vacuum engine, riding on one wheel like a Jetsons droid to maneuver around corners, and now available in a rainbow of vivid, intense colors. I'd like to have one of those. That's not the same as saying "I'd like to have dirt." And yet dirt is the reason why vacuum cleaners exist.My apologies to all who've grown weary of this unpleasant topic, however.I believe the basic definition of a scumbag is that is a slang term for a condom: ie, a bag to place semen in. As an insult, then, it is primarily a person of either gender who is what Seth MacFarlane coyly refers to as a cum dumpster; a receptacle for human scum, generally orally. Of course the term is often used in a broader sense, to mean a low person of little worth. The difference here in using a slang term to mean something other than it;s principal meaning is that, frankly, I'm not all that concerned about insulting scumbags.But I never said, as you posted in your topic line, that people who use the R-word are lower than scum. I said that people who use the R-word are lower than Scumbags. Certainly you wouldn't disagree with a reasonable statement like that. The difference between scum and a scumbag is the same as the difference between a vacuum cleaner and dirt. And a scumbag, or condom, is actually a useful and valuable thing, preventing the spread of some very nasty diseases and unwanted pregnancy. I had no hesitation it identifying myself as a scumbag, using that criteria. Although I would still prefer to think of myself as a douche-nozzle - one who brings freshness and comfort by being forcibly inserted into a vagina.So being a scumbag isn't that bad - although people generally find used ones distasteful. Needless to say, being lower than a scumbag, as a person who used the R-word is, would be less desirable.And if you''re not clear on it, "retarded" is a technical medical term, the phrase "R-Word" refers to using the six letter verb form as a noun. So I never said anything about [people who use the word "retarded". Although if they aren't using it to describe a person with a mental handicap then they are not using it correctly, or are using it in a way that some persons find offensive. And those people who are offended are not PC cops looking for things to be offended by on the behalf of others; at least, not entirely. they are, among others, persons with downs syndrome and the families and friends of those persons.This is what I get for trying to be helpful. Reading the above talkback, there were clearly a few people who were uncertain of if or why using the R-word was offensive. I was helpfully trying to explain that to them as clearly, simply and directly and emphatically as possible in terms they would understand. And since using the R-word is offensive, confrontational, angry, rude and unpleasant, I may have more than verged on those elements in my explanation. Hopefully I have made myself clear. Unlike I certain Mr. Hague of our acquaintance, I do not want to repeatedly post lengthy diatribes on this topic. I thought I'd already moved two subjects past it until Darth asked a direct question or three that apparently he needed clarified.Vader, old pal, let me put it this way. REmebmber when John and Yoko recored a song of hers called "Woman is the (archaic six letter derogatory slur directed at people of Negro lineage, often identified as "the N-word") Of The World." The title and lyrics of that song formed a vivid image and certainly made a specific point about how women were abused, exploited and mistreated in the pre-feminist era. None the less, even though it was a poetic and powerful usage of the unfortunate term and made a point, there are still a lot of people who are simply not comfortable with using that word in ANT context. In this case, Ms. Ono-Lennon was not specifically talking about African-Americans (or Jamaican-Americans or Haitian-Americans) - although the set "all women" certainly does contan the sub-set "black women". Still, whether the word N-- referred to what it usually refers to or not in this context, there are still folks who consider it an offensive word, in any context.And that is how non-scumbag people view the R-word. Have I cleared that up for you?Because I'd hate for anyone to go around using a horrible offensive term thinking "well, if some p*l*t*c*l pundit used the word, it must be okay to say" and not realize what a poor impression they were making by inadvertently using a word that decent people abhor. If I've helped anyone here today, then my work here is done.Your friend, a scumbag and s douche-nozzle, anotherdeadkitten.
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The guy in Locke's body, NonLocke, (NotLocke, UnLocke, Smocke, UnSmoke), Smokey, (the Smoke Monster, The Black Smoke Monster, Old Smokey, The Monster), Esau, (SeeSAw, SeaSalt, C-Sauce), The Man In Black, Johnny Cash Guy, Jacob's Nemesis, (Nemesis, the man in black called fate), Bocaj (Bojak),... which ones have I missed? Do we need any more? How about this one: "Jacob's Constant"?
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I almost forgot your cursed or no list.. )Oh, also Non-John and/or Un-John(
Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje -- Cursed
Naveen Andrews -- Not Cursed.
Nestor Carbonell -- Not Cursed.
Henry Ian Cusick -- Cursed.
Jeremy Davies -- Not Cursed.
Emilie de Ravin -- Cursed
Michael Emerson -- Not Cursed.
Jeff Fahey -- Not Cursed.
Matthew Fox -- Film. Cursed, TV. Not Cursed.
Jorge Garcia -- Cursed.
Maggie Grace -- Not Cursed.
Josh Holloway -- Not Cursed.
Malcolm David Kelley -- Cursed
Daniel Dae Kim -- Not Cursed. But since he is going to be on H5-0 w/ the guy who is cursed. Cursed.
Yunjin Kim -- Not Cursed.
Ken Leung -- Not Cursed.
Evangeline Lilly -- Unknown.
Rebecca Mader -- Cursed
Elizabeth Mitchell -- Cursed
Dominic Monaghan -- Cursed
Terry O'Quinn -- Not Cursed.
Harold Perrineau -- Cursed
Zuleikha Robinson -- Not Cursed.
Michelle Rodriguez -- Not Cursed.
Kiele Sanchez -- Cursed
Rodrigo Santoro -- Cursed
Ian Somerhalder -- Not Cursed.
Cynthia Watros -- Cursed
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reminded me of my favourite part of this episode-
"Who were you talking to?"
"Nobody. Did you catch that kid?"
"What kid?"
"Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight..."
comedy gold!
so anyway someone mentioned Desmond and his repeated attempts to save Charlie but the universe "course correcting" and him allowing Charlie to die in the end...
..and Darlton saying the Flash-sideways aren't necessarily an "alternate" reality per se...
well, seems to me ALT-Charlie is still alive and, as he has already pointed out, needs to be DEAD!
what if the nuke was like Desmond saving Charlie, in that things have not progressed as they're "supposed" to - but the universe will course correct so that the ALT-2004 somehow aligns with the..er.. ORIG-2007??
after all, we've not seen any ALT-2007 yet - maybe that's because THERE ISN'T ONE??????? -
I'm just waiting for Kevin Spacey to do Michael Emerson's audition for Clarke Kent...
btw flying mopeds have been done by Galactica, back when the Cylons invaded Earth
-hilarity ensued -
Please tell me you don't spell woman, with a "y" instead of "a".
Please also tell me you are an English major, or teacher or something.
Language is an interesting thing though. Especially such a young, mixed and ever changing language that is English.
I for the most part don't like the American spelling of words such as "centre", "colour". But why should I be so critical, so many words in the English language have changed spelling over time, maybe the American spelling is part of that evolution too.
Idiot, cretin, moron, imbecile were all terms that were once used in a similar way to retard, do you have the same view on them ?
anyway thats my non-Lost related rant over -
Dominic Monaghan and Elizabeth Mitchell - now star in crap to average tv shows, but am sure their pay packets are much bigger as a result of their Lost fame.
Flash Forward, stupidly I thought the show would have had hope, same with V, but both quickly disappointed -
Haven't seen that one yet...
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Calls him the Locke-ness Monster.
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the wife finally saw the Kate episode, and heard Dogen say"mesareru", which Lennon translated as claimed.
My wife was surprised with that word being used, its not a common word, and she said she had never used it in her life. She mentioned its a word that is mostly used by Christians i.e. "Ten ni mesareru", which would translate to be called/drawn to heaven. -
I think I've finally gotten over it (fingers crossed), but I would regularly call things retarded when speaking to him. I always felt like I stepped in shit when I did. I don't think he really minded or took it personally or held it against me but it definitely hung in the air for a moment every time, like a dark fart.
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the p.o.v. shot of m.i.b. stalking sawyer seemed like an homage to sam raimi. did anyone else think that? has that been mentioned already? esau did kill jacob didnt he? ben shanked jacob but didnt esau kick him into the fire before he was dead? that would mean that technically it was esau that sent jacob into the clearing at the end of the path. has that been mentioned already too? hey paul b., have you read courting disaster yet?
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child had downs syndrome and the family guy aired that same punchline. they would never get away with it. im not some kind of mcveigh right wing nutjob, im just saying step back and take a look at it objectively.
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Feb 20, 2010 12:12:10 PM CST
imagine if our current president's child had downs syndrome
by theotherjosh
I think this is funny and kinda touches on what McGooCain said. There is an article making the rounds by a douche bag named Cal Thomas, where he rails against Biden for "taking credit" for George Bush's war. Thomas says that since Biden was against the war at the beginning he can't say that us getting out of Iraq is Obamas doing. However he glosses over the fact that Bush, Palin, Cheney, and all the rest spent 8 fucking years going back and forth on any number of topics. Kinda seems stupid when you look at the fact that the same things they're so pissed about, are the things they did for years.
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I actually do have a bit about the cognitive dissonance of both sides. And, when you wholeheartedly, emotionally attach yourself to an opinion, be it LOST or politics, you immediately open yourself up to ridicule simply by virtue of the fact that you couldn't possibly be 100% right. No matter the opinion, no one ever has been. It's funnier when I do it on stage.
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Was that Chaucer?
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I'm going to admit, that took me minute.
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He doesn't care about the use of the words "retard" or "retarded" bc he knows people aren't using it to insult his sister. That's one factor that affects my opinion of the word.
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But it never caught on. Referring to the name only, not the character, he was never my favorite. He seemed like a villain or at the least a jackass ever since he walked away after bringing a dying Boone to Jack.
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I pretty sure he knows that when someone says "That is retarded" he knows they're not saying "That is stupid and slow like your disabled sister." Just like when I tell him "You're an idiot" he knows I'm not saying "You're like your sister". Now if someone goes up to another person who is mentally challenged or has Down Syndrome and says "You're a retard" then obviously they are intending to insult a handicapped person.
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and who the fuck invited the freaking Family Guy in here anyway?
if you guys have run out of Lost to discuss I'm outta here -
geez fucking louise...THIS IS WHY U DONT TALK POLITICS!!! and Seth McFarlane is a SMART guy??? he lets his obvious LIBERAL views on his show which is bs. BOTH sides are ripe with comedy but, only the one view of it??? cant piss off Hollywood i guess...
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Its a touchy subject to be sure, and I don't know if there's really a right and wrong answer to this. I'm just glad we've all been able to debate it and be civil about it. Kudos to us!
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When for awhile there this Talkback was nothing but posts insulting one another. Come on, you know it to be true =P.
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I thought South Park nailed it with the manatees
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politics are just too divisive. just keep it to Lost overall and all the smart non-troll fans will get along. smartass EMOTICON back at u vader lol
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Shut you all right up.
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That WAS a giant skid mark! Ol' Sawyer was hanging on to them drawers WAAAY past their expiration date!
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A couple more things I want to see:
Kate pull bad on someone
(on the island)and earn her rep as a killer.
Ben needs to grow a set and get back to what he does best.
And lastly, Sawyer puts a long con on Smokey/Esau! Love it when the supernatural gets screwed by mere mortals!
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and i love family guy. i actually dont even mind the low blow jab at palin on the show. im not against the joke. my point is that if the tables were turned and it was the current presidents child or obiden's child that were lampooned in such an obvious way, family guy wouldnt get a liberal media "pass". the extreme right and left both harbor kooks i.m.o. im somewhere in the middle. this is the last political post i will make on the family guy subject. i just think it needed to be said.
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the enhanced version of last weeks ep. this tuesday. i am curious to see what the ticker at the bottom of the screen says about the kid that locke sees. my first thought was that it could possibly be some incarnation of aaron but im probably way off with that one.
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they handled the uncc 49ers with relative ease. xavier have a great run and gun style. they rarely missed their shots today. sorry to break topic with this post, im just really starting to get geared up for the ncaa tourney next month.
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i meant to write has instead of have in my previous post. corpsmen.
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Feb 20, 2010 7:01:44 PM CST
Lucid... i assume Vader's a fan off UNCC so be careful lol...
by jay2517
or i think he is maybe?? vader is no longer known to me as D.VADER...he is now known too me AS...DARTH SEACREST lol. 2517 OUT!!!! beoottchhhess...
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wont see THAT on seth's show unfortunately...
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are we there yet?
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I answered your question back at the other place.
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oh sorry tho this was the lost talkback
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In the beach scene between Jacob and The Man in Black Jacob is wearing and old fisherman shirt or something that looks like he made. In all of the visits to the Losties hes wearing a buttoned shirt or nice modern clothing. (I figure that hes just trying to blend in when out in the world.) But back on the island when Ben comes to stab him hes still wearing a buttoned shirt, slacks and bare feet. Any special reason for this or not important?
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We discussed Sawyer pulling a long con wayyyyy back in the TB. Season 6 is after all mirroring season 1.
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"The Long Con." But Sawyer already knows he aint dealing with a regular person, regardless of what answers Flock has told him, regardless of the list/numbers reveal.
With all of his conning, and training and experience as Head of Dharma security, I'm sure hes not that fuckin stupid to fall into Lockes game.
On another note, Dharma might have had tapes or some kind of insight to what the were keeping out of the sonic fence besides the hostiles. It's possible Sawyer would have gained that knowledge in his time as head of security. -
Theres 2 things you dont ever talk about in a bar. Politics and Religion. At my place, we will boot your ass out, lol.
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Probably cause off Island, he's gotta blend in. In the 4-toed statue, that his residency. He's part of the weaving and history. Much like when I left the navy. I no longer wore any uniform related stuff. When I got home, I wore my home clothes.
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Oh no, I am a fan of UNC! UNC period! That's all you need. UNC as in "University of North Carolina", ie, the University that sired Michael Jordan and Mia Hamm, Jack Palance and Andy Griffith, Billy Crudup, President James K. Polk and Charles Kuralt, and lets not forget the great comedian Lewis Black. Soon, "D.Vader", the first internet talkbacker/filmmaker extraordinaire will be added to the list.
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In the flash he had "home clothes" when he went out and touched everyone he had dressy clothes (to fit in) but when at home (before being stabbed) he had dressy clothes (a buttoned shirt.) Im probably grasping at straws. I noticed that while printing off reference for my next 3 designs, Jacob, MIB and Eloise.
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If only to ensure that the REAL LOCKE comes back, that he is rubbing off on Smokie, that in the end he will return to vanquish his foes and ensure that his friends survive, thus securing his legacy as Island Hero. Because he deserves it. I like the idea of Locke as a tragic hero, but only if in the end he defies the odds and, as a truly blessed Island person, comes back to life to destroy evil and secure happiness for his friends, Jacob's Chosen people.
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I think Real Locke broke through into Smokey when he was chasing the blonde kid. I'd love for out flash sideways LOSTies to merge and make better versions of the characters we love and hope that they defeat whoever is evil at this point; or in the future.
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It was like when Smith imprinted himself onto Neo, but it became a backfire. It wound up destroying Smith. If real Lock breaks free, and comes into his own somehow, like having the Locke we always hoped for, then I'd love that shit.
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Feb 21, 2010 1:36:29 AM CST
As a matter of Fact Think we saw a hint before The Substitute
by toughguyrizzo
And it was with Jack. He got some mad faith in him when he was gonna swallow that pill. Just a thought. Could be extremities in our characters (like sayans in DBZ) that push together our two storylines.
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I would LOVE for the series to end with Jack as Jacbo's replacement, haunted by the ghost of Locke, looking to John as his helper and teacher bc he knew how to do things right, how to do protect everyone. Jack wanted to protect everyone. Locke wanted to help everyone reach their potential and serve the Island. I'd LOVE to see a reconciliation there, with Jack seeing Dead Locke everywhere, and Locke advising him with how to properly lead everyone else. That would be perfect. Locke isn't just the tragic hero, but the leader he was intended to be... just in death.
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"Don't tell me what I can't do!" it made me start wondering if taking Lockes form was backfiring and slowly turning him into Locke and that will be how we get Locke back? Maybe there will be a battle of wills and at the end Locke will will and become the next Jacob/Island protector?
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Some Matrix type shit where the "imprinting" that Smokie does on Locke backfires, and only strengthens Locke' spirit, and ends up being Smokie's undoing, bc he's so defiant. Twould be... AWESOME.
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Feb 21, 2010 2:07:03 AM CST
looks like ALOT of people were watching BRAVO this week LOL...
by jay2517
fuck Vikki from Orange County!!!
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i totally agree with ur assesment. i posted earlier in the tb about Jack and Sawyer-- it was similar. sawyer totally agreeing with mib now and jack totally DISAGREEING with jacob. that being sawyer agreeing with mib's list and jack NOT with jacobs.
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by bringing locke to the island purposefully. it might explain why jacob doesnt seem to try and defend himself against his impending murder. maybe having flocke take on lockes identity was a trap. has anyone mentioned this yet? if so , i apologize in advance. jacob is pretty slick. we still dont know that much about him yet.
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the 2 matrix sequels were BAD. i loved Reloaded because i wanted neo to kick The Merovengians ASS and The Architects ASS.......and it didnt FUCKING HAPPEN!!! i totally get the story but, it set up the audience for failure. the reason being-- in the 1st movie neo could do ANYTHING...soooo...the sequel he doesnt kick ass IN THE MATRIX??? ARRGHHH lol!!!!! seemed like the character of neo was neutered. i get they wanted u to connect to the human neo but, the Matrix neo is what everybody really connected too....anyway....
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but i always thought that the w. brothers could have tied the story up with reloaded. i love the scene with the architect.
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neo or trinity could have said...u know guys...umm neo CAN destroy sentinals in REAL LIFE. maybe...could have been ...i dunno..helpful to the cause lol. PLUS-- it would have shut the fuck up the "non-believers". god, that was bad too...and i know it was part of the matrix program but still...
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CONCURRENTLY!!! CONGRUENT!!! APPREPOS!!!
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Did you know that the first Island was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy...
It was a disaster. No one would watch the program.....
But ya know the most accurate..The best tie in line from the Matrix?:
"One of these lives has a future. One of them does not." -
A suggestion was posed. An interesting one, that, unfortunately, might be similar to something already done on another show.The idea was... well, let's look at the big picture. Ben kills Locke. Man in Black, who the audiences perceive as a probable villain, a being with the superpowers to assume other peoples forms or become a smoke monster, assumed Locke's form. He has read Locke's thoughts, such as the final thought in his head before he died. Now Locke's personality - at least one of his catch phrases - is beginning to emerge. Could the Locke persona reclaim his form in the living UnLocke?Well, there's the superhero show that was briefly popular a few years ago, called Heroes. Politician Nathan Petrelli is assassinated. A supervillain named Sylar, who has multiple super-powers including shape-shifting because he has to power to absorb other people's abilities - is captured and forced to assume the the form of Nathan. Mind Reader Matt Parkman removes Sylar's persona from his body and tucks it away in the back of his mind, allowing the Nathan personality to take over Sylar's body in the form of Nathan. So they had Nathan's thoughts take over Sylar's body (in the form of Nathan), bringing a dead character back to life.If Locke's thoughts take over the Man In Black's body (in the form of Locke), reviving a dead character... well, it would not be exactly the same thing, but would it be too similar?(I realize most Lost fans don't watch Heroes, that's why I went into so much detail explaining the similarities.)
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The guy in Locke's body, NonLocke, NotLocke, UnLocke, Smocke, UnSmoke, Smokey, the Smoke Monster, The Black Smoke Monster, Old Smokey, The Monster, Esau, SeeSAw, SeaSalt, C-Sauce, The Man In Black, Johnny Cash Guy, m.i.b., Jacob's Nemesis, Nemesis, the man in black called fate, Bocaj, Bojak, "Jacob's Constant", Man In Blocke, Locke-ness Monster, Flocke, DreadLocke, DeadLocke, Unlocke..
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The Lockinator, Copy-Locke, RepLocka.
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Just perfect, I'll probably actually use that one. Can I suggest LockAlike...or maybe Locke-Puppet? If Smokey has anything to do with Jughead, I'd call him AtomicLocke. Hmmm...could see him being called a LockeSucker maybe...
The Black Locke -
Darn - I think you pipped mine with LockAlike - nice one.
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Maybe Locke is cocooned in a way?
"You see this little hole? This moth's just about to emerge. It's in there right now, struggling. It's digging it's way through the thick hide of the cocoon...Struggle is nature's way of strengthening it." -
But I'm not really a fan of UNCC. I went to UNC and that's where my heart lies.
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I'm an independent, but when pushed I tend to lean a little bit to the left.
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see:
http://tinyurl.com/ydo7ny4 -
to wheel himself into Jack's office. Man, I just hafta know how he got in that wheelchair. I was resisting getting invested in these sideways stories....but that one got me! Damn You, Darlton!!
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*Moriah Vineyards is the wine produced by the monastery Desmond was at...
*Moriah..Mount Moriah is the spot where Abraham was about to sacrifice Isaac...
*Some believe that Moriah is also the place Jacob laid his head upon a stone, weary from fleeing his brother Esau, and had a dream about Angels climbing ladders...
*When he awoke Jacob said "This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven."...
*This place Jacob named, El-Bethel - "House of God"
*The manager or steward of great houses, in Greek, are Oikonomos
*Oikonomos - or what we might call... The Economist...Duhn! Duhn! Duhn!
"Everyone answers to someone Elsa..." -
Irony fun. Jack's dad caused a car accident. Jack's wife caused a car accident...speakin of which.. think Jack is still married to Sarah? Maybe has kid with her? No? Ok.
Two Bonus thoughts -
1) Did you notice that 'Other' Locke at the school was wearing a plaid shirt of Red - Choice, Blue - Destiny, Black and White. Yin Yang balanced - "disjunct or opposing forces interconnected and interdependent in the natural world, giving rise to each other in turn."
2) Recalling the conversation of 'Other' Locke and Boone...Do you think that bit about Aircraft fuel tank buoyancy might be a bit O' foreshadowing? No? ok.
...to paraphrase General Maximus Decimus Meridius - "What we do in life echoes on the Island ..and what we do on the Island echoes in life."
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yea i remember awhile back u telling me u lived in charlotte. i just live a little bit up 77 from u. be careful though i go to the auto auction there sometimes sooo... i can hunt ur COMMIE ASS down u PINKO lol!!! 2517 out!!!
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didnt you enter a short into the romero festival they had here? it seems like i asked you about that before. i saw the crazies screening at the epicenter. i wish i could have seen dawn or day but i bought my tickets too late for those films. night of is still my favorite dead film from george. i am independent as well.
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The ash is the burnt remains of the trees that provided shelter from Smokie way back in season 1 or 2. The crazy french lady showed the castaways they would be safe in the roots of the tree. I think I remember it smoke monster was behaving like a cat trying to get a bird in a cage, waiting and watching. I thing smokie was animated to look for a way in, cocking its head like an impatient animal trying to get at something. Burning that tree and carrying its ash around is a lot more portable and easier to spead than the tree itself.
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THANK GOD someone mentioned land of the lost above. I've been to lazy to post it but I'd be hard-pressed to believe that that show wasn't the main inspiration for Lost. Even if subconsciously in the producer's minds. Remember the hole that closed while Will or Horry were hanging from a rope in the hole? And then the hole closed and all their was was a rope coming out from he dirt? Like Sawyer and Locke. Must be a nod. Another nod was when they parachuted in from the freighter, a la that one pilot in LOTL ep. and Uncle Jack coming to the rescue. So many other parallels.
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I think the loophole is being betrayed by someone you trust. This was arguably how Jacob and Locke died, and it is arguably why Dogen wanted Jack to give Sayid the pill. Now NotLocke is hoping to use Sawyer to betray his comrades and help him get rid of the other candidates but Sawyer aint that stupid.
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Umpire was talking about Moths and Cocoons which reminded me of the Pheonix in X-Men. The X-Men were returning from a mission and about to crash, Jean Grey tried to save them (while the X-Men were in sleep chambers or something) and the Pheonix joined with Jean Grey and saved them, or so they all thought.
What had really happened was that The Pheonix force had saved them and wrapped Jean Grey in a Cocoon and placed her at the bottom of the ocean to preserve her and made a copy of Jean Grey that it inhabited and was called Pheonix. Since the body was a copy it had Jean's personality and humanity.
Pheonix/Grey was on the team for awile, but was eventually corrupted but Mastermind and Emma Frost of the Hellfire Club and became The Dark Pheonix because she couldn't handle all that power. Dark Pheonix wiped out a whole planet and was brought to trial by an intergalactic race called the Shihar. Before they could put her to death she sacrificed herself.
After a few years the Advengers found the Alien Cocoon and with the help of the original X-Men freed the real Jean Grey from the Cocoon. Jean had no memories of anything that the Pkeonix/Grey had done.
It would be interesting if they went that route with Locke. Desmonds Flashes are almost exactly like the way that Shadowcat time traveled in "Days of Future Past". -
Yep. Me too. When the Losties were brought to the temple in the premiere, I kept thinking some Sleestaks were gonna pop outta one of those doors in the hallway.
SLEESTAKS ! -
I think the show is gonna end in a loop, with the plane crashing on the island all over again. They did that in Land of the Lost. Season finale, before they knew they were going to get picked up for a second season. Marshall, Will, and Holly escaped the land of the Lost, and as soon as they did, an alternate Marshall, Will, & Holly came in riding on a raft, plunging down a thousand feet below!
to the land of the LOST! -
I'm surprised no one ever brought up my Ash theory...at least I haven't read it before anywheres. Anyone seen it proposed before?
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...I never read the right issues as a kid to put that whole Dark Phoenix saga together. So X-3 really fucking botched it far worse than I had realized. What a waste.
Back to Locke...he says something else interesting in that same episode (The Moth). Right after using the Bloody Rock God to catch a boar he exclaims, "Nice work Charlie! You make excellent bait." And in 'Further Instructions' it was stated that Locke is/would be "amenable to coercion". It really seems to me that this poor man has been coerced/conned into being used as bait. Whether by the MIB, Jacob, or some other unseen confidence man, I gots no clue. Bait for what exactly? That I don't know either, but I'd like to.
Someone above or in another talkback mentioned Professor X needing to be re-cast soon and that Terry O'Quinn would be great for the part (shit, we've already seen him rockin it in a wheelchair). I am in 100% total agreement with that assessment. He's really quite a fantastic actor who deserves some recognition beyond the television and could possibly bring something a little different to the role. Put him in the movies! -
Is thee a time limit? Or are certain sources considered spoiler sources? What information and how long can it be out there before it's considered to be common information?I was tidying up the dining room and going through some magazines before tossing them in the recycling. Weekly Television Program Listing Magazine (I prefer not to identify TV Guide by name since they bought and dismantled the Jump The Shark web site) regularly covers Lost. They had a Sawyer cover article a Locke article, a Claire one page feature, a Michael and Libby sidebar feature, and their "what are they watching " featurette identified Lost as Jery Ryan's favorite show.And there was an article about "The mysteries of the Lost season premiere". So that was a magazine from several issues ago discussing a Lost episode that aired nearly a month ago now.When it first appeared I was reluctant to mention anything in it because I know how sensitive some of the folks here are about Spoilers. for example - not a spoiler - they mentioned that we'd be seeing Boone Hill - the beachside graveyard which figured in last weeks episode (the one this talkback is about). At the time I mistakenly assumed that meant that another character would be dying, but as it turned out they were finally getting around to showing Locke - who was revealed as dead in the Season Four (4!) finale - finally being buried.Still, I loved Ben's eulogy. And seeing all those makeshift wooden crosses - a few of which were shown in closeup, but you may have notices an entire row of them just over the edge of the hill - made me think of all those talkback gags about season six being the Xombi Season and which characters would be reappearing.I assume we saw Ana, Libby, Nikki and Paulo, Boone, Shannon and many other old favorites in that scene - or at least their grave markers. Anyway, that's the article I'm referring to, so I don't know if this next bit of information can be considered a Spoiler or not. though it does seem to be common practice here to quote the Darlton and take interview comments as canon. I'll label it anyway.
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Since this is something the Darlton said that directly responds to an Episode 6.1 scene that people here are still debating, I thought it could be helpful to point out that a definitive and authoritarian answer exists.Question: "Why is the Island now submerged under water?"SPOILER [maybe] answer: Lindelhof says "It was a result of the explosion," adding that with the island sunk in 1977, perhaps Jacob never touched the passengers lives off the Island. Nestor Carbonell adds "Who knows if (Richard) was on the Island when it happened?"Just to obfuscate the point, saying that the island was sunken in 1977 does not exactly clarify if the sinking occurred in that year or earlier. However, it does appear that SPOILER The island was sunken no latter than 1977 and that it was the explosion that caused it to sink.So, can we consider this to be canonical general knowledge now, or do we put up with the usual lost talkback drop-in visitors who still want to debate the subject?And let me know if information from the Darlton, published weeks ago about a month old episode, constitutes a spoiler, because I'm really not out to annoy anyone. I understand folks who prefer to remain spoiler free, I just tend to consider the coming attraction, the promo ads, the capsule TV listings and non-current magazine articles to be fairly general knowledge. Let me know if you disagree.
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Charlie doing a hit off a Dharma bong. Then blowing the smoke monster out. Charlie and Hurley are sitting on the back of a Dharma van as Cheech & Chong watch in amazement of smokie.
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just wondering big man...
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In the first few seasons the island was sometimes treated as sentient, usually by Locke. As in the island wants this or that. Have we moved away from that concept entirely? Or does what the island wants still matter? How say you all?
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flick them stain-infected boxers at ol' fakeLocke and throw him down the well.
THE END -
Feb 22, 2010 12:18:10 AM CST
3 Minutes. Names on a List ... A funeral. And someone comes.
by macfaux
MICHAEL: I hear you're a priest.
EKO: Yes.
MICHAEL: I guess you believe in hell, then.
EKO: For a brief time I served in a small parish in England. Every Sunday after Mass, I would see a young boy waiting in the back of the church. And then one day, the boy confessed to me that he had beaten his dog to death with a shovel. He said that the dog had bitten his baby sister on the cheek; and he needed to protect her. And he wanted to know whether he would go to hell for this. I told him that God would understand [helping Michael clean the floor, wrings blood from a white cloth] ... that he would be forgiven, as long as he was sorry. But the boy did not care about forgiveness. He was only afraid that if he did go to hell ...that dog would be there waiting for him.
You think that boys hands might have been bloody? I miss Eko.. -
It sounds like good information.
@ ThrowMeTheIdol-I like the island as entity concept, and if the island has benn sunk in the X timeline, then it is essentialy dead there. -
I'll do it Monday night.
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definetely worth reading, like how he uses Smokey in reference to the character he is playing.
Has Sawyer given Smokey any nicknames yet ? -
. . . the little blonde boy watches quietly from a distance and whacks off while Kate shits in the woods.
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It was meh.
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Yes, I did enter a film into that Romero Zombie Short film contest. It sounds like, according to Romero, that mine was unofficially second place. I was also at the Crazies screening. Crazy huh? At the Dawn screening the people working the DVD player kept screwing up and were playing it with the commentary on. Everytime they retstarted the movie, we'd think it was gonna work, and then someone's voice would pop up "Hey this is so-and-so!" and the entire theater would groan or break out into laughs. As the process went on, everyone was yelling insults or helpful hints on how to get the DVD to play without the commentary track. It was hilarious.
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THis show will probably preach that free will exists via it's denouement,but free will is one of those things (like the existence of God) that is not within our power to disprove. Therefore for the time being all evidence points to the non-existence of free will. As such, I would love it if the show ended with the point that predetermination is a fact, and also have Gene Wilder make a guest appearance as a goofy non-essential character who accidentally saves the world while saying "whoop!...Whooop!!Zazaaz!" Historical but unlikely.
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Sorry after I posted I realized the post was poorly/lazily written.
Some things, like the existence of God, cannot be disproved because of the very nature of the concept of God and faith.
I used God as an analogy for Free Will (not sure a valid one but I think the point comes across) since Free Will is an idea that most think cannot be disproved because it is a concept based on faith. No one has been able to prove free will.
In any event I DO BELIEVE that THE LACK OF Free Will can be proven by logic alone. There is no evidence of free will, either.
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"I just think that when you start to get a sense of what somebody tick and you realize that that clock is kind of ticking out of whack, that's scary," Haley says. "That scares me in this world. You know what I mean? Sometimes when you just run across people that seem to be tracking on a different kind of cord and something's up. To me, that seems more scary. There's even more uncertainty knowing that whoa, something's driving this and it's real and it's…you know what I mean? But it's just not making any real sense. You know it makes sense to him though and that's what's scary about it."
Oh wait..he's talking about Freddie Krueger. Well, that is interesting. -
Six days of speculation wears on people.
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Well and Free Will is kind of an ozymoron. Sure we have our agency to choose what we want to do, but its never free. If we choose to rob a bank theres always a concequence or a something to pay if we choose wrongly. Jail, etc. speed to fast and we might hit something, etc, etc. I prefer the term agency over Free Will.
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Feb 22, 2010 3:11:21 PM CST
"In any event I DO BELIEVE that THE LACK OF Free Will can be pro
by colonel_blimp
Now that I'd like to see :) What do you base this belief on?
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Dammit. I'm going to bed. FU Harry Knowles.
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www.petitiononline.com/editbttn
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Try this link:
http://tinyurl.com/editbttn -
Thinking about Lost while driving today, and this is what I came up with:
Both time lines are real and both happening (but not actually simultaneous since we are concerned with 2004 in one and 2007 in the other) This serves to give us, the viewers two different endings to the show, a Choose-your-own-adventure, if you will. While nothing pleases everyone, this would seem to be a strategic attempt by the writers to please more folks with more than just one ending.
In the LA X timeline, our Losties get to purge their demons, correct their mistakes, and have the happy ending that so many wish for their favorite character(s).
In the original(O) timeline, our Losties adventure, live and die, and do heroic and dastardly deeds (depending on their character's bent) right up until the ending.
I see Sawyer being Smokie's bitch right up until the last, then putting the smack down on him, sacrificing himself Juliet-style. Whether skid-marked boxers are a part of his plan would remain to be seen.
I still see two players filling the role of Smokie/Esau and Jacob at the end. My vote is for Ben Vs Hurley.
In the LA X timeline, I think Oceanic calls Jack, tells him they found his dad's casket, and can he fly to Austailia (free ticket) to identify.
Stop me if you see where I'm going with this. -
http://lostroom23media.blogspot.com
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Because things only happen one way...the way they happen and happened. Don't confuse freedom of choices...gas pedals that affect speed and a Chinese buffet...for freedom TO choose. You will only pick menu items a-z, or will drive x speed, and it may be possible to explain why in hindsight, but you do what you do and once it's done it's done. Things can only happen one way because they do only happen one way. As such, how can free will exist? Therefore Free Will is an illusion in which one either speaks to themselves while looking at options available to them (which is usually by another's hand) or they physically pick up candy bar A and say "I made a choice." That does not mean that they are all powerful since many factors outside themselves contributing to event A, the purchasing of a Kit Kat. Free Will I believe implies control where we have none. If everything happens one way and one way only there cannot be free will. I know I am missing a premise i just don't quite know how to put it. So count me on the Pre-Determined camp of Lost
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Lost continues to add new characters and new mysteries right up to the first fifteen minutes of the two hour series finale. In the next twenty minutes the exact nature of the smoke monster(s) is/are revealed and Jacob takes possession of one of the original 815ers (let's say Sayid) while his Nemesis takes the form of one of the deceased 815ers (Let's sday Arzt). everyone who wants off the island is rescued and a boat is left behind for the few who choose to remain, and a peace treaty between Jacob and Man In Black Smoke which allows the surviving Others to live in peace. Cindy and The Children make an informed choice to remain on the island with The Others.Then the Last Hour of the final episode of Lost rolls around and Jack, Hurley and Ben Linus have remained behind (they have a boat to get off when they're ready to go, remember). Jack, Hurley, Ben, Jacob and MIB gather together one final time to talk. And that's it. Forty minutes of exposition. Jack asks the tough questions "Okay, what I want to know is..." Ben asks the sneaky questions "So you mean that all along..." and Hurley asks the funny or geeky questions "Whoa, dude so you mean..."And they cover EVERYTHING that the series didn't have time to show us being wrapped up. What are Walts abilities that make him special? What's the deal with the Hurley Bird? How exactly to the various iterations of The Numbers tie together? Is the Island sentient? Why did things that seemed to make no sense happen that way? How did Locke's dad really get brought to the Island? And about a hundred other more questions, Widmore, the Black Rock, the Frozen Donkey Wheel, all definitively answered. In clear easy to understand ways that don't leave any room for doubt or raise new questions.And the next day in the AICN talkback they're still be people biching or whining about how they didn't like the way the information was presented, and folks with tiny niggling questions about the most trivial and unimportant aspects of the show that were never meant to be mysteries in the first place.But hey, I kid the Lost fans. As long was we find out what happened to Steve and Tracy and Jin's Original Stuffed Panda, I'll be fine.
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"I wonder if he was thinkin about Ozymandias?"
At first I was sure you were channeling some Watchmen vibe...
But then, it occurred maybe you are channeling Island voodoo in Smith and Shelley's competition:
In Egypt's sandy silence, all alone,
Stands a gigantic Leg, which far off throws
The only shadow that the Desert knows:
"I am great OZYMANDIAS," saith the stone,
"The King of Kings; this mighty City shows
"The wonders of my hand." The City's gone,
Nought but the Leg remaining to disclose
The site of this forgotten Babylon.
We wonder, and some Hunter may express
Wonder like ours, when thro' the wilderness
Where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace,
He meets some fragments huge, and stops to guess
What powerful but unrecorded race
Once dwelt in that annihilated place.~Smith
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away~Shelley
Oddly, wonderfully, relevant. Well done, Pa. -
http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/
Hurley and Charlie hitting a Dharma Bong and releasing the (Up In) Smoke Monster...with cameos by our weed Mexicans. Enjoy! -
it's definitely something open for debate, but I don't really feel that your explanation debunked free will with logic. "Things can only happen one way because they do only happen one way" doesn't equal predetermination. It doesn't prove that the outcome was set in advance, that's just your assumption. That's why this is a philosophical debate, isn't it? Because you could never make a scientifically sound experiment to prove how choice A differed from choice B in any given situation. You could only make thought experiments, like Lost did with Desmond, and the Jughead reboot.
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there's no such thing as "free will" (sorry Jesus freaks) because we are basically just really complex, organic machines and we are "programmed" by our "instincts" and our genes and our culture and various other factors so that, with enough information each and every one of our thoughts and actions could be totally predicted, regardless of how "free" we are to make choices
in fact some people are so good at "reading" people they set up their own magic shows and go into business - with varying levels of success - calling themselves...
psychologists (you thought I was gonna say psychic right?)
(sorry Ed)
it's just an illusion -
Feb 23, 2010 6:29:55 AM CST
Well, even if we assume that is completely true, Maniaq
by colonel_blimp
Does it still negate free will? I don't think so. It decreases the amount of likely outcomes, and also makes some a lot more probable than others, but to say free will is an illusion is sort of an easy way out, IMO. Do you actually behave and live your life like every choice you make has already been made for you?
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1. Can you define choice (in the verb sense, as in "to choose") or at least your own definition of choice?
2. Can that definition be proven empirically?
3. For the sake of argument, if there is no Free Will, which depends on choosing something (as in "deciding") would you agree a lack of Free Will therefore follows?
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Sorry, meant to say "...would you agree a lack of Pretetermination therefore follows?"
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I know which zombie you're talking about. That's a cool story. I'm sorry he died.
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Feb 23, 2010 9:32:07 AM CST
The new TB is up, so this discussion is gonna die, I suppose...
by colonel_blimp
But: 1)Ok, of the top of my head: "An individual making a decision to pursue one specific alternative, at the expense of one or more different alternatives available." Something like that? 2) I'm not the one claiming to be able to prove free will with logic :). I don't really understand what it would add to the discussion to be able to prove the definition of "choice" empirically, either. How do you prove a definition empirically, anyway? 3) If there is no free will, I'll concede that predetermination follows, assuming that's what you meant?
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The same thing goes for people who use "-tard" as a suffix.
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This may have been posted above, but I can't be bothered to wade through thousands of posts.
When Kate is looking up at the smoke monster in the shot of it going over her head and the pit - freeze frame and step through it frame by frame. There are people inside the smoke.
That's why this show is awesome. Even if I'm seeing things that aren't there, the fact that the show is making me think I am says it all.
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