Cool News
Here's One Direction Future TERMINATOR Movies Might Head...
Merrick here...
While all of the rights nuttiness spinning around the TERMINATOR franchise has been going on, William Wisher (who worked on the scripts for the first two TERMINATOR films) has been toiling away on a potential 5th and 6th installment of the franchise - a two picture concept that finds away to re-unite Kyle Reese and Sarah Connor, return Arnold for one film, and apparently wraps up the whole series of movies.
Wisher has created a role for Arnold Schwarzenegger that is as surprising as his shift from villain in the first film, to John Connor’s bodyguard in the second.
[EDIT]
...fresh off the Skynet assembly line are new shape-shifting cyborgs that can morph together in Transformers-like mode, and are more lethal than anything we’ve seen in previous Terminator installments.
...says Mike Fleming HERE. The article discusses Wisher's concepts in quite a bit more detail - be sure to jump over and check it out.
Please note that...with so much left to be determined regarding the fate of further TERMINATOR movies...none of this should be seen as "a done deal" until the dust kicked up by recent events has settled & The powers That Be have had a chance to fully weigh in on where TERMINATOR should, and shouldn't, go next. Just think of this as one possibility.
"Shape-shifting cyborgs that can morph together in Transformers-like mode"? Sounds like...
--- Follow Merrick on Twitter! ---
[EDIT]
...fresh off the Skynet assembly line are new shape-shifting cyborgs that can morph together in Transformers-like mode, and are more lethal than anything we’ve seen in previous Terminator installments.
-
+ Expand All
-
Go listen to this soundtrack. It's wonderful.
-
Ditch McG!
-
Just end it. Please god.
-
nothing about that sounded good.
-
...fuck off please you stupid corporate bastard. The first 2 terminators movies ever amazing. land mark films int he genre of sci-fi action but the later movies are complete and utter horse shit. fuck off
-
that has been perpetrated on the movie going public.
-
Seriously, what is so hard for all these writers and directors after Cameron left the franchise to understand? Kyle Reese fighting alongside John Connor until they defeat Skynet and send Reese and good Arnie back in time. That's all it needs to be wrapped up in a big future war movie.
-
I miss that big cunt!
-
Please make it stop, but how? It won't stop EVER until we are dead!
-
buy this francise!
I've got...5 bucks! That's real money on the table people! -
Feb 11, 2010 9:45:11 PM CST
And the sequel's prequel spinoff's end of the beginning online w
by coachbombay
... will feature arnold trying to get his son a toy for christmas before sinbad.
-
Id throw a hundred bucks in. I call for a female terminator lesbo scene which ends in them giving birth to baby terminators... Look, its better then Salvation thats for damn sure. When the rights first came out for auction I was seriously considering finding rich relatives and going...buy this... you never know right?
-
Feb 11, 2010 9:48:40 PM CST
This is like watching someone get raped over and over...
by onin solstice
It's starting to get creepy now. Terminator continues to get whored out. So much so it's starting to stink of infection.
-
They show a remarkable lack of understanding when it comes to dead horses.
-
Is better than Salvation, so I'll take it. We want to see the future war that were snippets in T 1 and 2. Give us that! With the crazy machine 1980's music. That's what we want. Give it to us in 3-D and we will give you 18 dollars a tickt like Avatar. WE PROMISE!
-
I want killer machines, talking chimps and a CG Charlton Heston fighting alongside Arnold Schwarzenegger. In 3-D, bitches.
-
I hate shoehorning cameos into movies to such an extent that it changes the story.
-
but at least two people just said (re the EXPENDABLES screening) Arnie is really looking his age now, so how are they going to write an ageing machine into the story? If they can make it work, I'm all for it, I love back-to-basics and returning to your roots (when they involve inimitable and/or legendary actors, bravura storytelling, etc.) so it will be interesting to see what happens. I just hope this hedge fund owernship rubbish doesn't get in the way of good movies getting made.
-
want to morph into a liver-spotted 63 year old man?
-
Sent back to kill Marty McFly!!
Wow...it just might work. -
he's 157 years old. this is just ridiculous!
-
I am directly below Arnold's scrotum.
-
Feb 11, 2010 10:01:36 PM CST
Wasn't the T-1000 pretty much the ultimate transformer?
by naboo_the_enigma
I'm just sayin'
-
I hope they put Ahnuld as human warrior, that would be the only way to explain his age, I know they can de-age him, but that would make it easer and maybe throw in the guy who play T800 in the 4th one to play that character with a couple of head replacements.
I still don't know why they should go back to the time travel stuff, but I bet Wisher has some cool ideas up his sleeve...
Lets hope someone with the power to make this movies is reading... oh yeah, make sure you make R... thanks -
when Ripley hooks up Bishop in the garbage pile?
I always thought that would be a way to work in old Arnold into a new Terminator movie.
Pick an ancient machine laying around for years and programme it to save your ass. -
of $10,000. Really.
-
At least it's someone who has actually worked on the first two great films. But the T-1000 is the Ultimate Terminator which is why the T-X seemed redundant and pointless. One of the reasons I dug Salvation was the "Ultimate Terminator" at the end was, basically, the T-800, which was still very badass (even if the final scene kinda ripped off the ending of the 1st/2nd movies).
-
Nothing against his visual sense, but his "travel back to 2013" idea of Terminators vs. Army sounds hella stupid.
-
MAKE. IT. STOP.
-
"Most importantly, they're eating all of our sand"
-
He'll know what to do! Hell, he killed that franchise before it even had a chance. "I AM THE LAW!"
-
how hard is that?
-
how hard is that?
-
That show contributed more to the mythology of the Terminator franchise than the last two craptacular movies combined. Just finish that storyline and be done with it. We will all pretend that parts two and three never happened.
-
correction..parts three and four never happened..ah it's getting late.
-
Awesome post. I almost shit my pants.
-
How many of us sat at our computers when we first learned how to edit video and spliced together the future war battle scenes from T1 and T2. Show of hands? I know I did.
-
Carl Rinsch should make this while being "mentored" by McG!!!!
-
Nor do these movies, really. I've been saying for a long time that I love the first one and parts of the second one (like, the ones without Furlong, which ain't many). Otherwise, unless something spectacular happens I'm not really interested.
-
Feb 11, 2010 10:55:49 PM CST
I think it's about time to crush this franchise in a factory pre
by robertbaron
or dip it into a molten steel vat.
Seriously, it's over Johnny. -
Since T1, all I have ever wanted to see was the Future WAR. In T2, I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was more to the story of Sarah and John, but then again hoped to see the Future WAR, which I KNEW I was not going to see with T3, but was slightly hopefull since the ending BLEW UP THE WORLD, which kind of is the kick off to the FUTURE WAR...which I THOUGHT we were going to see in T4...but it kinda was a Future gorilla war, with scattered robots that KINDA looked like terminators and Kinda looked like mad max, but really in the end did nothing to look like a FUTURE WAR. Hello, how hard would it have been to make that happen idiots.There is no way Arnie plays a T800 at 65 or whatever age he is now, he will probably play the guy who designs the first one, or the guy who built the first chip or some dumb thing like that. The cool thing I liked about T4 was the CG Arnie, it looked enough like him that you could probably reshoot T1 with that and it would look just as good, or replace the now old rubber head fx with the CG version and do a T1 fx do over, not that it needs it...
-
Say whaddya say Harry... how about bringing this site up to 2010? Hell I'd even settle for 2005.
-
Stay with me on this- a dildo is sent back from the future by Skynet to take out Sarah Connor's ovaries. But another dildo, sent by John Connor is sent to stop the evil dildo. This good dildo is bigger, has vibrating functions and a little thing that tickles the anus. Sarah sees these two side by side and picks the good one. Therefore, John Connor sent his own mother a thing she will put in her vagina.
Oh wait, I just described the plot to the original TERMINATOR. Sick when you think about it that way, huh? -
Transforminators? I think not!
-
...Wisher might be the reason the first two movies turned out as well as they did. I have lost all faith in Cameron.
-
is either they stop this madness and let it be. Which we know they will not do. OR someone comes up with a way to tie up the last couple movies with a bow, move them over and make a real terminator movie with some real stakes at hand and no more hand wringing. Here is an idea, just make a Terminator movie that is from the Terminators view, from the beginning of the damn Future war as they pretty much destroy every living thing on the planet...going through our neighborhoods, no good guys, no damsels in distress, just victims through out the movie until finally the resistance shows up to get fucked up too...Everything can just escalate from there, and you would not need any stinking actors, except screaming extras, for like 3/4ths the movie. I'll line up right now.
-
Oh no you fucking DIDN'T! You have GOT to be fucking kidding me! Sorry but Terminator isn't fucking POWER ZOIDS!
-
-but this sounds better than T4 did, that war didn't look ANYTHING like the war in the other movies. It wasn't nearly gritty or grimy enough. Any of you read Terminator: Earth War back in the day? They captured the look and feel perfectly.
-
We are really at that point, lets have Terminators, Aliens, & Predators with Will Ferrel & Jon C Reily running around being whacky.
-
That will be the next concept. Just watch.
-
...Conan The King, of course.
-
for signing that ammo registration bill. The Terminator is really a lib in disguise. Fuck you Governator. Fuck you!!!
-
"...what it's like to be a Terminator!"
-
After nuclear holocaust, cattle-pen concentration camps, and shape-shifting mimics that can turn into 4 foot spikes, what the hell is "more lethal?" Maybe if Skynet stopped screwing around and just pumped the atmosphere with so much poison gas nothing organic could survive, then they could claim "more lethal."
-
that if you spend more than 5 minutes thinking about it, the entire premise is moronic. It's pulpy and fun- none of it really holds together logically. So, go out there, make a kick-ass movie with robots and lasers and apocalyptic imagery, but Christ, stop taking yourself so seriously, TERMINATOR.
-
Ah, Terminator movie. I remember when you were young and fresh, full of hope and promise. Now...now your an old and tierd concept whose best days are behind you. Sigh.
-
So they can join up and make a 50 foot robert patrick t1000 and when he swings his hands at stuff human sized metal globs fly off of his fingers and they turn into human sized spikes and they hit shit and then morph back into human sized robert patrick t1000s and they race back into the 50 foot sized robert patrick t1000 or they chase you. and maybe they have that female bitch terminator power to make complexe tranny parts too. A logical step.
-
Then you can have Arnie in there. Heck, you can have anyone you want in there.
-
so, in the first film, Arnold plays an unstoppable bad guy. In the second film, he's now the good guy and bodyguard to John Conner, and they have to fight a shape changing cyborg?
They aren't even trying to hide it anymore are they? -
i'll bee left back.
-
that Terminator vs. Robocop comic like 17 years ago? That was a really good story. Probably unfilmable though. =( Batman vs. Predator was great too! They could film that! =P
-
I whent there to see The Expendables review and all I see is a chicks ass.
-
It's Termi-Morphing Time!
-
Wait, that's no leg!
-
plus William Wisher
-
James Cameron filmed an ending that's viewable on the Special Edition DVD and Blu Ray where the future had changed and they had won, that's it, over, finito! Even the theatrical ending finishes on a moral lesson showing the future as what we make it and no longer something set in stone. That's for the audience to take with them, unfortunately the idiots in Hollywood have ZERO discipline and greed beyond measure and feel that means they can just flog this dead horse till it can no longer crawl! Stop trying to make money out of this tired and pointless concept, endless time stories just showing us how many different ways they can sell us the same story with the same threats and the same outcome with new FX! Arnold is just a fat old has been now, with no place in any movie let alone this one just to please the loins of fanboys who can't let go of their childhood. Grow up and move on like respectable adults! Terminator was not meant to be a franchise, just two stories and that's it! James Cameron moved on to secret agents, subterranean aliens, huge sinking ships and 8 foot alien Smurfs; you guys need to take a hint!
-
Transforminators my ass!!!
-
There are exactly 2 terminator stories to tell: The one where the future is set, and the one where you make your own fate. In other words, the first 2. Anything else is just a rehash.
-
Sounds like a terrible idea. He himself should be aware when the audience sees the future with John Connor? He has already won the war. The franchise works better set in the past and zero teeny bopper terminators such as Summer Glau and the chick from garbage. Can hollywood cut out the political Correctness and bring in men for the roles of the machines? Female terminators don't work.
-
Yes, it's become quite redundant to see a film franchise get a fresh restart but frankly it's been both a good thing and bad thing and in the case of Terminator it would probably be the best thing. The number one reason is that the Terminator in its current form will ALWAYS require the involvement of the now over 50 year old Governor of California Arnold Schwarzenegger. Any further efforts to create that character using CGI will only prove equally as unfulfilled as the MCG efforts of the last installment. Reason number 2 is that Sarah Connor is an equally important part of the equation and at the end of the day what made the original and second Terminator films so great had to do with the chase element that the third one didn't do as well and the 4th kind-of veered off from entirely (basically once the story turned its attention to John it lost its flavor). Personally if I'm going to hand out another dollar towards this franchise I'd like to move back to a simpler story retelling the initial arrival of this perfect killing machine landing in modern times to kill the mother of the unborn future savior of the resistance. With less concern over special effects or coming up with "cool robots" and more emphasis on the thriller elements that made the original so enticing. The hunt, the efforts by the Terminator to remain concealed while tracking down his target, the romance between Sarah and her protector from the future, the mystery surrounding the future and the uncertainty left at the end are all the elements that makes the Terminator an appealing draw. The reboot would be an upgrade because the Terminator would be coming to 2011/12 (assuming the movie were shot then) and of course the real test would be to find the right person to take over what would be the biggest shoes to ever step in, that of Arnold's Terminator.
-
Not even cameron can revive it. T1000 was such an awesome villian nothing can top it.
-
These posts are getting painful.
-
Cameron can fix the whole series. Using the Avatar template. A part CG Terminator movie in 3D with a real tight script could end the whole series on a high note. Why anyone would want to end it with the McG movie is beyond me. I want justice for this series of movies. Wishers treatment sounds pretty interesting. Forget having Arnold come back, CG him in there but do it right and let Cameron be behind the whole thing. Pay him whatever it takes, he is box office gold.
-
fact
-
Arnold is an older man, almost a father figure to Kyle Reese. His bodyguard if you want. A big beefy bull of a man who could still strike fear into peoples hearts even in his 60's.
So when creating the Terminators they use his DNA sample as a template. And thus the exoskeleton ends up being skin thats cloned from that man. Except that of course the exoskeleton is going to create a clone thats in his prime age, not an old man.
There are many ways you can go about this.
If not the bodyguard as has been mentioned, it could be an old soldier, a general in charge of the program... even a German Mad Scientist! who used himself as the DNA sample for the cloned skin.
-
http://tinyurl.com/yfdlhh5 how would you like your lights, mr. bale?
-
"so how are they going to write an ageing machine into the story?" -- Er, ever heard of something called emotion capture used in a movie called Avatar, where you can alter someone's apparence ?
-
I would have bouht the rights and locked them away never to be seen again. That would be the most dignified way to end the franchise. Unless there is some form of miracle the Terminator franchise will never recover the quality it once had.
-
Am I the only one who absolutely DOESN'T want more focus on the future war, if any more movies get made? I always felt we saw just enough of that, it was a driving force, always there in the background of the story, while the real meat of the film was the chase and the more personal battle between ONE (wo)man and ONE machine.
-
Feb 12, 2010 3:06:37 AM CST
Shape shifting Terminators that turn into Transformers sounds
by takingscorpioscalls
RUCKING FETARDED.
-
Sounds like an incredibly weak idea to me...
I'd love to see a true sequel to TERMINATOR SALVATION. A proper sci-fi war movie with plasma guns, hunter killers, etc and Kyle fighting alongside Connor in a desperate attempt to destroy Skynet (but only Connor knowing they are related). Keep Connor, keep Yelchin, keep the state-of-the-art fx, and build/improve on what was laid out in TS.
This 'bring back Linda Hamilton and Arnie' sounds like desperation - plus as others have said, the actors have aged far beyond what is convincing or cool for a hard-hitting sci fi flick of this kind. -
"but seeing as how he wont touch this hellbound franchise it fills my conscious and hubris better knowing that a proposed part for him merely EXISTS in my script and plus it goes great for promoting this to studios just be namedropping him! but really though we have NOTHING! i mean did you see our newfound ideas are terminator megazords! oh yeah and we also wrote in a part for linda hamilton, and michael biehn too! and lance henrikkson, plus robert deniro is attached to it and leonardo dicaprio will play some vague detective character with his weird looking facial hair figuring out clues to the fighting, and russel crowe will join in as one of john connor's generals of the north with his trademark caesar cut."
-
but seriously, a Terminator movie without Cameron is like getting somebody else aprt from Spielberg to make an indiana Jones, or someone else apart from Sergio leone to make a Dollars movie. Utterly pointless. Whatever filmmaker gets drafted in to do it can't help but make a shallow copy. Leave it alone, or do as I do and just ignore everything post-Terminator 2.
-
He was the sole reason I watched Salvation and found it enjoyable. But the franchise as a whole doesn't even interests me slightly. I for one allready found T2 to be childish and only enjoyable but definately not great.
At least with Bale I could see Bruce Wayne fighting evil machines in the future -
was a future war with John Connor fighting FUCKING SHITLOADS of YOUNG Arnold Terminators, coz, you know, they come off an assembly line yet up to now you only ever see one at a time...I'm never gonna see that am i?
-
The franchise was wrapped up at the end of the second film, and I'm very happy in accepting that.
-
The future scenes worked in the original 2, because they were quick flashes and glimpses that gave the idea a near mythical feel.I always knew a whole film set in that world , wouldn't work .That said Salvation ,didn't seem to even attempt to recreate the established look of the future .An open daylight desert setting ,brings to mind Mad Max more than Terminator .Where were the nightscapes of skulls and ruined buildings?Enemy at The Gates looked more like Camerons concept of the future war {He was most likely inspired by the War of the rats and the fall of Stalingrad ,in the first place}Plus I don't buy that in the original terminator reese had ever seen an Endoskeleton , prior to arnie getting up out of the flames.He obviously Knew of them , but seemed as surprised /shocked as everyone when it happened.In T2 and salvation , theres so many Endoskeletons wandering around , that theyre more like a mech army , than an infiltration unit.It looked like in T1 cameron imagined Hunter killers as the machines warriors , the Endos were only in Human form because they had to pass as human once covered in skin.
-
... and saw only two words written inside. "Gay porn."
-
They should leave this alone for at least another 20 years.
-
doesn't it? Complicated again somehow. Sounds like Kyle finds a way to bring (older?) Sarah to the future to fight along with the resistance.
I don't know about these movies. Either they're dragged out forever (like McG's plans) where you add more and more new elements and complications that need resolving, or you finally show what a lot of people want- A CONCLUSION i.e. the rebel fighters finally storming Skynet and detroying the defense grid. And before that all that the resistance hiding in the dark avoiding HKs and T-800s. Although that timeline's been messed up...Where John (and his wife and children! Not to mention Mom and Dad) fits in with Wisher's take, who knows (I guess Deadline Hollywood.) -
Cameron's best scripts had a co-writer. Gale Anne Hurd on T1, Giler and Hill on Aliens and Wisher on T2. Whenever Cameron has been the only writer his scripts have been long-winded and lack focus(True Lies, Titanic, Avatar and even Abyss). He needs another writer to condense his ideas. I felt sorry for Wisher that no one acknowledged his contribution for T2. Without him, T2 could have been all over the place (one of Cameron's early ideas was to have a good Arnie vs a bad Arnie which would have sucked ass). I guess part of Wisher's motivation for writing T5 and T6 (apart from money) is to show the world that he can write a good Terminator movie in his own right ad he wasn't just grabbing onto Cameron's coat tails.
-
Why don't they just continue "the war" as they started? I didn't think Salvation was bad. Sure it was kind of "soft" being PG13, but you don't necessarily need R to tell a story. I thought it was pretty decent. Lets see the points where they get into skynet and send the originals back and win.. Otherwise leave it alone and let it stand as is.
-
section suggested something pretty good- conclude the story already created with a 5th and 6th movie, *then* think about a reboot, if the rights-holders (whoever they are) want to drag the Terminator series out and keep their cash cow alive (or dead but propped up like Bernie.)
As for the alternative to Wisher, keeping McG and staying with whatever he and Brancato and Ferris come up with next...hmmmm....computa says NO... -
is that I don't want to see a Marcus and a Helena Bonham Carter character hogging up screen time. I enjoyed the Marcus and Kyle scenes, it had a relationship dynamic and humanity (something John and his wife and his team seemed to lack.) Plus we knew who Kyle was. Imagine such scenes between John and Kyle. I don't want to mostly see these new relationships with people we don't know like Marcus and Moon Bloodgood. I think it should focus more on the characters we do know, give John some life, not just whispering intensely.
-
Really, this sounds so much like Transforminators, stealing a lot from Transformers.
I mean: We already got that Harvester-Terminator, transforming a Cannon on it's shoulder, and now, they're adding even more Transformers-likeish creations.
They're very eager to take as much out of TF than what might good to the Terminator-Franchise, seemingly changing it to an Transformers-Ripoff. -
it was The Burning Earth with art by Alex Ross (unless you meant All My Futures Past or Nuclear Twilight - where both showed the end time chamber sequences)
i vaguly remember flicking through 'Futures Past' in a comic store (mustve been in 1990) and seeing the T1 terminator and then Reese on the time chamber being prepared to be sent back and thinking 'WOW that would look amazing onscreen' - just the look of it all and the time chamber looked great - and they STILL havent done it!! there were rumours at the time that it would be shown in T2 (in fact it was in the original screenplay and is in Wishers T2 novel) and i was damn certain wed see it in T3 and then again in T4..but still no
and regarding Nuclear Twilight (and its prequel Cybernetic Dawn) i noticed some foreshadowing of stuff in T3, T4 and even the tv series:
one character goes 'if we dont do something We are dead! we are all dead!!'
in Cybernetic Dawn, 3 terminators are sent back to 1994 to ensure Skynets emergence (like the TX's mission in T3) plus one of them is a T1000 that poses as the head of the cybernetic corperation (like the Garbage singer in TSCC)
obviously the writers got stuff from the comics for the movies...(i cant imagine they 'homaged' the comics as who outside a hard core fan would even know of them?...ive always been a huge terminator fan and only learned of the comics recently by accident)
notice they expanded on some disguarded T2 scenes (e.g. flashback to the T1000 interogating the mexican dude who helps Sarah, future war and time travel scenes etc)
-
No NO NOOOOOOOO....it shits all over the mystic of the Arnold terminator...
I always figured that the T101 Arnold model looked the way it did due to it having to cover the massive endolskeleton..and it was kinda like Skynets idea of what a perfect humanoid would look like - the atlas thing..and that it was developed as a way to infiltrate humans after the crappy T600s with rubber skin..plus it had arnolds face as thats just what a T800 model 101s skull happens to look like when you put skin on its head
where as in that stupid T3 scene suddenly it was all based on Sgt Candy as early as 2003?!
thankfully it was only a deleted scene (its almost comical in tone - almost like a gag reel) and there was no indication in T4 the T800 is based on any captured soilder or anything
id be real disappointed if we see old Arnie as a human in T5 and T6 and skynet using him as the basis for the T101
-
But Arnold... I don't know. (Liked his CG version in "Salvation", though - good hjob.) And yes, "Salvation" wasn't half bad -- it was a lot more entertaining and much fresher than the stale rehash that was T3, for sure.
-
the Cameron-esque blue night battles, plasma rifles, rise of the T1000, end of the war, all the time travel - reese and the terminators sent back, death of Conner...end scene Arnie in the time chamber, kneeling, just about to be sent..cue Fidel theme.....R rating, plenty violence and deaths, sense of dread, good directors like Scott, Bigelow, Verhovan, Proyas, Araonsky etc
(CG Arnie/Kickinger for the T800s at the end, CG Robert Patrick for the T1000 and the TX could be just mentioned as having been sent back off screen - no need to stink up the film with the crappy fembot Terminator ) -
If only Cameron had done a future war T3 in 96 to complete the trilogy, Using his disguarded T2 end of war/time chamber intro - and stretching it out to 2 ½ hours...he couldve done it instead of that T2-3D thing he did for the amusement park. Arnie wouldnt have looked so old then (like in 2003s T3) and Biehn couldve got away with playing Reese again (just)
i mean the all important reese being sent back with the terminators wouldve been done (with Biehn as Reese..damn that wouldve been so cool)...so no need to have the crappy T3 we got and this new trilogy as its those scenes which are the whole point of starting this new series (which are obviously being held for T6)
Camerons terminator trilogy could’ve been amazing...ALL great (like Star Wars OT, Indy 1-3 and LOTRs), not just 1 and 2...(kinda like Godfather, Superman and X Men)
-
something that should be simple twice now, even as a kid I thought Terminator should be a trilogy and the third movies was a kind of prequel showing Conner winning the war and sending Kyle and the other Terminator back, end of story, instead Rise of The Machines screwed things up by changing the timeline and Salvation just continued the screwing up
-
Terminator franchise needs to nut up or shut up, either give us a decent sequel already or just let the series end already
-
seemed to be more enamoured with Arnie than the Terminator story around the time of T2. Hence the sort of parody of a Terminator in T2 (Bad to the bone!) and then they went and made True Lies, leaving the Terminator franchise behind to become what it's become. It's true, the story that began with The Terminator was fairly simple- John inspiring Kyle and others in the camps to fight, banding together and then destroying Skynet.
-
The continuation of TERMINATOR SALVATION could be truly special.
The story that wants telling would involve the two leads Bale and Yelchin, Son and Father. Only the Son is the senior figure, and the Father in awe of him. That could be a really interesting and original dynamic - one never put on film before.
It would culminate with Connor and Reese battling through to the time pod and then Connor making the decision to send his own Father back in time... to his certain death. What an emotional payoff that would be. -
...with fixes. I'm with Cobra--Kai on this one. Make the next film closer to the future scenes we got in T1 and T2. I know I'm not alone in getting tired of reboot after reboot. It leaves viewers who've invested their energy into following serials or a franchise out in the cold.
-
McG stated he wished to do to Terminator what Cameron did to Alien when he did the sequel....i didnt think he meant literally but after seeing it maybe he did:
-mute Star = ‘mute’ Newt (Star is going to take the detonator and Connor says "Be careful". Newt did the same thing with a granade in Aliens and Hicks said "Don't touch that. It's dangerous, honey")
-Opening with Bale and Co finding humans - similar to the Colonial Marines finding the colonists
-waterbots - like facehuggers...plus the bit in the water was reminsant of Newt being taken.
-going back for Reese...going back for Newt
-confronting the T800 - similar to the Alien Queen confrontation...even with a pole through the chest like Bishop & and waiting for the elevator…
-the end nuclear blast destroying skynet - similar to the end of Aliens
Moon was kinda like Vasquez
Wright waking up after years...like Ripley
-
twice by the opening 'half terminator'
then two times by toon Arnie
then a further THREE times by the T800
Plus - As he 'squints and listens closely', like the T800 lurking inside is a ticking time bomb or something, Connor gets hit in the face by a 7X4ft, six inch thick, metal door. Hard enough to be thrown back 10+ feet.
i dont get it - why didnt the throwinators just grab him and punch through his head or chest or just crush whatever part it grabbed?
i realise thatd be the end of the movie but then why have it get close enough for these gaping plot holes in the 1st place??? -
That can look like us, or be modified machines, that evolve, have self-awareness, are much, much stronger, and absolutely relentless, isn't enough? You really need to turn it into the Transformers? Really?!Just write a good script, have good actors, pay attention to the basic laws of science and medicine (a heart transplant, in a tent, in the middle of the desert??????), and some semblance of logic.They should have just left it at Terminator 2. Not every great movie needs a(nother) sequel.-Cheers
-
it creates and alternate future timeline where new an deadlier terminators are created. It seems that Judgement day, no matter what, always happens. Going back in time either pushes back the date or makes things worse. Why can't there ever be a happy ending and end this madness.
-
they are going to make.For me they exist two terminators: Cameron's T1 and T2.they are sitting safe and sound on my dvd library.Greedy Hollywood is never goign to fuck up these two masterpieces,so let it have its own way.
-
Yes, you can see McG's influences esp. Aliens in the movie. But I think it's also Brancato and Ferris. It's very much the fanboy style of "let's write a scene like from our favorite movie". It's like when Orci and Kurtzmann said that the Robot Heaven scene in Transformers 2 was inspired by the Phantom Zone from Superman II (although that's all kinds of fucked up.) You've got these enthusiastic well-meaning fans like McG (dude shouldn't read AICN cause his feelings will get hurt) making these movies. REPLACE HIM. (Sorry dude.) Replace Brancato and Ferris. At least with Wisher you have someone from the original movies, not someone who grew up as a fan.
-
Cartmanez, 'Throwminator' Haha! I like it... good parallels between TS and ALIENS too!
-
Seriously, the terminator movies need to stop trying to include time travel in their plot because it doesn't make ANY sense any more. In the first movie they claim the resistance destroyed the time machine after sending back Reese. Then in the second they claim they actually sent TWO protectors back to two different times before destroying the time machine. Now they all clearly have the ability to time travel at will...which has only destroyed the point of the second movie where people can control their own fate. I guess not. So now what? If people have no control over their own fate, and time travel never seems to work or change anything, why keep going back to that well?
-
The series should have ended with Terminator 2. We didn't need the third or fourth, nor did we need The Sarah Conner Chronicles (even if I enjoyed it).
-
Morphing is so 1990s. How about vapour-bots, like flocks on nano-machines that can terminate you from the inside out? It would also be good to see the early-model terminators that could be spotted by "their plastic skin" as Kyle Reese described them in the first film. And future world needs to look miserable, not like a music video where only the good looking survived (I'm looking at you Terminator: Salvation).
-
is fun, I rode it most recently in 2007 and it's a little dated technology wise, but still allot of fun, it's also cool being in the Cyberdyne building
-
Feb 12, 2010 8:30:28 AM CST
How about a single film to wrap up the Future War timeline
by anyangbluth
Make it balls-out, make it epic! Give it the franchise a proper conclusion and be done with it. Stop trying to turn something we love into a cash-cow.
-
can someone please tell me why everyone today with a little bit of money has those blinding bright white teeth?? i dont get it - it looks weird...i noticed it about 2004 or 2005 that some people were having it done and now u see it everywhere - even bums in the street have em...
it dosnt look right these X Ray teeth - i'll stick with my ever so slightly yellow stained set thanks -
Uh, no, this ideas sucks major ass! What's next? A Terminator with a flute who summons a giant Termi-zilla? Just stick a fork in this franchise, already... it's done.
-
they should just embrace the fact that they've stuffed it all up and go for cheese factor. make rocky time travel into the future and have a boxing match with the arnold terminator cheered on by an audience of gremlins and muppets to decide the worlds fate. or something.
-
Just give us the hard R war film we've always wanted, no gimmicks. Saving Private Ryan with terminators instead of nazis. I know the suits feel they need to one up the terminator ability with every film, but the T-800 endoskeleton design is still frightening and holds up really well after 26 years. Just have armies of those like in the opening scenes of T2. Along with the terminator tanks and airships, some solid human drama and some incredible battle scenes, that'll be more than enough to fill a movie. Oh and give us characters we actually care about this time too, you wouldn't believe how far that goes.
-
Feb 12, 2010 9:20:36 AM CST
How can any movie that talks about altering the past ever be don
by wickedjester
Why not just go kill Adam & Eve?
Movie over. Skynet wins. -
Feb 12, 2010 9:25:22 AM CST
I'm Pretty Certain The Next Terminator Film Will Be A Remake
by freebeer
Seriously, they are rebooting (I HATE that word) everything these days, and concidering the reception the last too got I think it's a safe bet they are going to ignore what's gone before and remake the first one.
-
McG should have stuck to the basic Terminator formula, meaning "Character X" is sent back in time to protect "Character Y". In this case the Worthington Terminator should have been sent back in time to protect Kyle, instead of being a death row convict that was somehow made into a super advanced Terminator/human hybrid.
-
With an updated setting and fx, but the problem would be that they would redesign the cyborg and go overboard with cgi. But if they could get a responsible director who respects the source material, I would watch it. Although part of the charm of the original is the early 80's LA setting, so the new one would already have that strike against it.
-
Say it with me, boys! Summer Glau! Summer Glau! Summer Glau!
-
Make it so.
-
"Why are you trashing my scene?!"
-
Feb 12, 2010 10:05:07 AM CST
Perfectly good way to get Awwnald back into the storyline...
by ravenloff
...was in SM Stirlings "Future War" trilogy. In this series, which picked up immediately after the building goes boom in T2, with a young John calling Miles Dyson's wife to tell her he's dead, Stirling came up with a great way to use Awwnald's character as a hero, not a bad guy.
Sarah and young John were somewhere in South America living in a rural villa (running a trucking business, if memory serves). A retired CIA operative, one of the best, retires to the villa next door. He walks over the day after moving in to say hi to his new neighbors, only to have them freak out and start blasting away at him. Why? Because he is Awwnald...the template Skynet chose from it's copious database for the terminator we all know. In the book, the CIA operative had a beard and was bit older than the terminator we've seen, so it would all match up perfectly.
Why this isn't a story direction they want to make film about, I'll never know. It's perfect. -
Not Terminators ftw!
-
....there I've said it! and I feel GOOD!!!
TSCC deserves better than what it and we got. After getting the DVDs from both seasons, this is one of the best Sci Fi series ever done with a classic final episode which could have lead to another brilliant season.
At the very least, give Summer G a part. -
That's actually pretty damn good. Then you can have a different Terminator, but still have Ah-nold.
-
Then we could have the colossal shitfest and ultimate Cleveland steamer of franchise killers: Aliens vs. Predators vs. Terminators.
-
Arney's character made the Terminator. He's the scientist who designed it.
I mean, what else is there for him? He's already been a bad guy. He's already been a good guy. He's already been a good guy turned bad guy turned bad guy turned etc.
Just make him a human. -
Feb 12, 2010 10:20:23 AM CST
Fresh off the Skynet assembly line are new shape-shifting cyborg
by ptsdpete
Maybe they can all transform into Jay Leno, so the franchise could finally come to an end...
-
I'm getting sick of all these new Terminator creations.
-
Sounds OK, sounds better and more intriguing than anything McG came up with (there were some nice ideas in there, but the script/execution/production was screwed so bad, either by McG or Bale, depending on whom you believe, that the final product is a glorious mess of...meh and blah). I'm all for Arnold as an "older resistance fighter" who gets to be the model for the Terminators -- at least that's my bet on where Wisher's story would place him -- though I don't really how Arnold could get much better than that striking moment in T3 when he struggles with his technological "humanity": "Desire is irrelevant -- I am a MACHINE."
-
It makes sense that a T-800 would age rapidly because it's living tissue is getting no sustenance. It's tissue probably has a finite amount of glucose and water enough for one mission, then it needs to get a new tissue graft or it's going to rot like a zombie. Old Arnold could be brought back with this explanation, though the will need to add some skin decaying effects.
-
Feb 12, 2010 10:59:36 AM CST
"Most interestingly, he turns the story back to the core charact
by dave i
"Most interestingly, he turns the story back to the core characters and time travel storyline of the first two films that Wisher crafted with Cameron."Reading the article, I'm a bit more optimistic. That said, it's all about execution. Except the transforming terminators; unless they are thinking something much different than I am, it sounds lame. Even then, execution and plausibility, to some extent. I can kinda see how what the story described could work, but if it's just the Destructicons all over again (and I haven't seen Transformers 2, just the cartoon, maybe it's cool in TF2 but even then it's already been done), I'd pass. If it's a robot that can split up into smaller attack robots then reform, like a T-1000 that could split up into smaller bits and it makes sense to do so, I'd probably give it a shot. Still, T-1000's, or even T-800's and the other robots we're already seen in small glimpses, were really cool as-is.All that aside, the aforementioned quote has me more positive. Let there be cool post-apocalyptic stuff because this could be the last shot to get that done right, focus on the characters (which Wisher seems to be saying he's going to do), decide if they are going to alter the timeline or just win the war in the future, and worry about the plot more than the special effects.-Cheers
-
... the real problem is if they keep McG as director. You could resurrect Shakespeare in all his glory and McG would still make a fucking horrible mess out of it.
-
Kill him.
Kill him.
Kill the fool!
I'm afraid I have to disagree with Orville, Jack, and Mr. Can't we just do something to his voice box?
Look, unless someone wants to make a PROPER sequel to The Terminator (ignoring that stupid rehash garbage T2), something portraying Connor's future campaign properly, I'm not interested.
And when will the thickos understand that The Terminator was NEVER about changing the future? It was quite specifically a story set in a narrative universe where TIME TRAVEL DOES NOT CREATE THE FUTURE, but rather COMPLETES THE HISTORY THAT WAS ALWAYS THERE?
No more muppets making sequels to a misunderstanding of the original story. Please. "Oh, it's time travel, that means the future can be changed..." NO. -
Embarrassing. Sorry, that should be (psyches back up to caps lock mode):
TIME TRAVEL DOES NOT CHANGE THE FUTURE, but rather COMPLETES THE HISTORY THAT WAS ALWAYS THERE?
Thanks. Sorry about the mess. -
I guess you were really upset that Arnold didn't played an evil Terminator in the second movie, hem? but i wonder, if Arnold had been another evil Terminator in T2, wouldn't that be a rehash of the first movie? What says you?
-
Have some rogue Resistance guys go back in time to kill Dyson (Sarah's original idea) to prevent the war and Skynet sends a terminator back to save him. There'll be so much emotional journeying and philosophical posturing you'll forget you're watching a Terminator movie. And if they actually go that route I'll kill myself.
-
is they keep trying to outdo the T1000 and come up with crazy new variations of terminator "this time it's a woman!"" this time it can turn into guns!!""this time it's a hybrid!""this time it's a motorbike!""This time it's fucking massive!" Like someone said earlier do it like Saving Private Ryan, but at night, with lasers and have fucking loads of exoskeletons and lots of young Arnolds done with decent CGI this time.
-
You just encapsulated my thoughts exactly. You said everything that needs to be said on that subject. Nicely put.
-
... was how much of it happened at night. Humans fighting the machines in broad daylight. Even doing incursive attacks IN DAY TIME! More then one dramatic escape happens AT DAY TIME! Nobody in that movie used the dark of night to strie, except for the last sequence, when Connor alone hits the Snynet major base. It's as if connor was the first to came up with the idea that maybe it's for the best to use the night for cover operations, because, it's like, harder to see then, even by machines. Really, watching T4, one gets the idea nobody using a brain was in any position of true authority. They just let that McG fool run the shop unwatched.
-
Feb 12, 2010 1:20:33 PM CST
Before I would have said no, after Salvation YES PLEASE!!!
by performingmonkey
Salvation made any future Terminator movie viable in my eyes. I could have lived with T3 being the end, mainly because it was still Arnold-starring and the T3 ending is pretty good, let's be honest. But what McG shit out along with his innards just canNOT be the end of the Terminator series. No frakkin way! Get Wisher to write T5 and make something worthy of the audience who've stuck it out, and worthy of Cameron's legacy. I vote YES to this.
-
so that it comes completely under his control. he has the clout to do it. cameron is no fool. he has made the biggests films of his career with titanic and Avatar. or it may well be terminator franchise is more of a studio franchise and his maybe tied in that respect.
-
Didn't Kyle say that they see better at night?
-
Yep, I said it.
-
Read it. It should be the blueprint for any future Terminator movies.
-
As a terminator or father of kyle reese or just as kyle reese somehow. Just do it.
-
1984....1991....2003....2009
there shouldnt be a T5 until at least 2015 -
Without technology man is at the most disadvantage at night.
They aren't going to go for a two-fer end-all, end-game, if they are buying into this "franchise" to milk it... It'll probably end up being REBOOTED. By the time we get a decent Terminator movie, it will be a "reality" show. ;-) -
Feb 12, 2010 3:40:16 PM CST
T5 - starring Bale,Yelchin, Arnold, Patrick, Biehn & Hamilton
by cartmanez
directed by Ridley Scott
-
Feb 12, 2010 3:42:34 PM CST
real Arnie in T5/6 or Shatner in Trek '2' - what would be the bi
by cartmanez
The Shat yes?
-
thats what i meant
-
AvP, Die Hard 4 or Terminator 4??
i know finding out AvP was PG13 was pretty shocking but it was more based on a video game/comic based on a throwaway shot at the end of Predator 2 - not a 'proper' Alien or Predator movie...was still very shocking that was pg13 though.....now if the new Ridley Scott Alien film or 'Predators' was PG13 - THAT would be a suckerpunch followed by a heartattack shock level
with T4 - although it was still a shock we kinda knew McG would fuck us over - plus there had already been the PG13 AvP and DH4 just recently so it was kinda expected and less of an impact...and there were the playmate toys, pizza hut deals and constant rumours of the dreaded pg13 - but still a nasty shock seeing that little PG13 logo on the bottom right of that PIZZA HUT ad - like a suckerpunch to the gut
for me DH 4 was the most shocking though...i just didnt see it coming...and was like 'Holy crap a PG13 Die Hard!!' it was like a dream or something...like finding out the new Halloween/Nightmare on Elm St/Friday13th or Martin Scorteses latest crime film was gonna be pg13...something that you thought couldnt possibly be a pg 13 was a pg13!!...how the fuck were they gonna work around McClane cussing every other line?? his catchpharse?? the endless 'mother fockers'?? the bloody bullet hits and head shots, ultra violence etc???
i still cant believe it
-
Think about this: what you think is the clever thing? What Cameron said about humans getting more of a chance fighting at night, or McG saying that the humans had more of a chance fighting at day because machiens saw better by night?Let me tell you something. it's impossible to see better at night. Even with infrared. To see with infrared, you need to have your own infrared light generators, because you ar enot going to get any from the stars and the moon's relected sunlight shown down. And thermal can only go so far, it's not very good for long distances seeing. So, always the best, even for a machine, is to use DAYLIGHT.And Cameron, who's a smart guy, he understood this well, thus why the humans attacked the machines at night, under the cover of darkness. McG, because he's an ass, he thinks he's so cute and smart with that "machines seeing better at night" bullshit idioticy. That is truly the kind of retard bulslhit an idiotic hack would come up with.If you ask me, i would rather heed what Cameorn says then McG, if you know what i mean.
-
William Shatner was in Star Trek 2. You know, the Star Trek movie subtitled "The Wrath Of Kahn".
-
But, infrared detection is based on heat though. This would not necessarily mean you need your own generator, just a heat source. At night your surroundings would cool and the temp of the human body would show up better. Heck, just look at the first predator movie when Arnie covered himself in mud that hid his heat signature. Maybe you are thinking about laser painting? Heck, even light amplification goggles take in ambient light and even starlight to function. And you're right, Orcus would take Cameron over McG, but it looks like in T4 the Humans were just starting to get their shit together as opposed to what we saw in T1. Orcus does have a habit to try to shoehorn things in so they make some kind of sense
-
I think you are talking about thermo vision, which most people (anmd most movies) msitake for infrared vision. The confusion might be originated because heat is indeed carried by the infrared frequence of light. Also, infrared vision is also mistaken for light enhancement vision. So, yeah, all, this can get confusing.Thermo vision is what you see in Predator, where one sees heat signals form aninals and sourse of heat. But thermo vision is very limited in hot weather. In Predator, in the end they had to simulate the thermo vision because the real camera couldn't pick up the actors because the air was so hot all they could shoot was a huge yellow glow everywhere.Infrared vision is pretty common in handycams, to shot at night. Many time sit's claled nightvision. But you cna only see in infrared only if you had an infrared lamp. You need to carry with you your own sourse of infrared light, or else the infrared camera or gayloye will be as blind as we would at any darnless without light.Ligth enhancement is what we saw in those Iraq War images from nightt-ime, like the famous images of those anti-aircraft tracers trying to hit american bombers. It's a technology that picks up the most minute light refkection from object and statistically enhances them until it creates a visible image. Many people mistake it for infrared vision, but it's not. And it's by far the most common use of night vision techniques today.
-
The way in interpreted T4, it's the early days of the human rebellion, when they still had a lot of gear and aircrafts in their service. Which for me is absurd, in that the world suffered a nuclear holocaut. It's just too cute that the humans would still had so many operating vehicles and so much fuel to waste around. Aparently, McG never heard of this little phenomenum that happens when a nucelar devise is explode,d the AMP. That fucks up anythign with transistors and electrinics, including, and specially, vehicles and aircrafts. And nuclear submarines. You can't make me believe that so much of aircraft hardware was SO CONVININELTY safe guarded inside some mountain hideout. fuckign bullshit. Truly, the fucks who made T4 didn't though things out. This is why Cameron made the good Terminator movies and McG made a shitty one.
-
... Bale should had trashed the lights, because tha tmovie has no particular nicwe or interesting cinematography to it. It's quite banal looking. It's the cliched "post-apocalypse" crap one woud expec,t only this time, it all looked nicer the usual. It was the nicest apocalypse i ever seen in a movie. Barely looks any worst then what one could see daily on a Californian desert road.
-
timeline thing going on with these movies. As Orcus said above, everytime someone goes back in time an alternate timeline is created where the terminators are deadlier. Look at T1 which we can consider the Prime timeline. Remanants of the T-800 were left behind and reverse engineered which then created a timeline for the T-1000. A timeline where the time travel machinery wasn't destroyed as stated by Kyle in T1. Now the t-1000 gets smelted at the end of T2 and maybe a new alloy was created? Who knows? Maybe this leads into the timeline of T3? And then there is the TV series where Sarah Connor Jumps over her date of death and get's herself checked out. It kinda makes you wonder what timeline they are following. Even John Connor voiced that thought when he listened to his mothers tape. As far as all the equipment was concerned, accorging to the T4 prequel novels, Mexico was relatively untouched and there were US troops and equipment there working with the Mexican government in regards to drug trafficking. In short, this is beginning a fucking mess and even Orcus is getting a headache over this
-
"I guess you were really upset that Arnold didn't played an evil Terminator in the second movie, hem?"
I don't give a shit about that. The problem is that The Terminator says, "In this narrative universe, time travel turns can't change anything; there was never a version of history WITHOUT Reese and the terminator!"
Whereas T2 says: "Hey, with time travel, you can change the future! Cool, eh?"
They don't fit together. The rules are changed. It's a different universe with the same characters.
That sucks. -
"As Orcus said above, everytime someone goes back in time an alternate timeline is created where the terminators are deadlier."
In the original movie, there is no "alternate timeline". That is the whole point of the movie: it's the same, single version of history that always existed. -
Depends which movie you mean. In Salvation, he says that nights are most dangerous because of the machines' vision.
But that contradicts completely what he tells Sarah in The Terminator:
"You stay down by day. But the nights...you can move around." -
That's why T1 was the Prime timeline since it was the result of how things played out. There was no tweaking. Another contradiction you forgot was the credo of "No fate but what you make it". Where everying after T2 just shows that all roads lead to Judgement Day. The date might be different but it is still coming. T1 showed the natural progression. T2 showed some hope that the cycle might be broken (shame the alternate ending did not make it though and put an end to this madness). T3 was a self fulfilling prophesy. T4 is the Bale show. And Moon Bloodgood. Gads, Orcus would like to probe the dark side of the Moon
-
That's the point of The Terminator. It's a 100% deterministic universe with a causal loop. There is also no such thing as "the present". All moments of history exist simultaneously, and "the present" is just a subjective notion whereby the subset of the universe representing "an individual" at any given "time slice" happens to have atoms that represent a compression of slices only to "the left" of this one (what we would call the pas) rather than to "the right" (the future). Reese and the CSM-101 in 1984 are the rare exceptions to the rule - they have atoms in their brain/CPU representing some of the elements of slices to the right.
It's a bit like when you watch a DVD for the first time...halfway through the movie, you might feel that the ending hasn't happened yet, and you're thinking that the characters might steer fate in one direction or another, but actually the ending is already written, and the entire sequence of data, something that feels dynamic and changing when it's being played back on your TV, can be popped out and held in your hand as a static, unchanging entity, with every moment of the movie existing simultaneously. What is "the present" when you watch the movie? It's nothing but a pointer into a static sequence of data. -
(what we would call the pasT)
-
Wow, they're at Lake Placid this year
-
DO NOT LOG OFF...You will not be re-admitted...
-
The first Y2K disaster of the 2010's...
-
How does AICNageddon play out? Will the Earth eat us alive? Will virgins be eaten alive?
-
But they are 10 feet tall and eat humans. Thankfully the Underworld is roomy and comfy, tat and Orcus is not human. Win-Win for team Orcus on that one
-
Hey, you type with claws and see how good you do.
-
I'D BUY THAT FOR A DOLLAR....
-
At least we got a new franchise from the Emperor of the Universe.Hollywood can shove the rest of the dead horses in its ass.
-
than Polanski and Woody Allen combined. Lame video...who would spend their time making this crap.
-
nearly 20 fricking years...where does time go??
it wasnt THAT long ago..yet it is...i can still remember heading down the comic store and picking up the starlog offical T2 magazine and the marvel adapation - then resisting reading them before i saw the film....then at xmas 91 picking up the offical magazine and comic for Trek VI and then seeing the film...
now its 2010...holy crap, what the fuck happened?! people are dead, new people have been created and are now adults.. -
Or was it today? Orcus needs to fix his watch
-
None of the both movies,T1 and T2,seem to clearly adopt only one of the two main philosophical interpretations of time-travel: that you can change future events by your actions if you time-travel back in time,or you cant change the future because everything is already predetermined.
There are three elements which strongly support this:
1.Skynet in both movies sends back in time the two T,in order to change the past.but what is the point to do this thing,twice, if its fate is predetermined to lose the war? is Skynet stupid,desperate or is knowledgeable of time-travel's true nature?
2.In the end of T2,there is no evidence that the future has been changed by the actions of the heroes.Cameron leaves this thing vague,maybe they did it,maybe not,the answer lies open for personal interpretation.
3.the most important one,when Kyle says to Sarah:
''Thank you, Sarah, for your courage through the dark years. I can't help you with what you must soon face, except to say that the future is NOT SET. You must be stronger than you imagine you can be. You must survive, or I will never exist. '' i dont know about you,but the above doesnt sound to me that the universe in T1 is deterministic.
On the other hand we do have the time-loop in T1,which must obey to the rules of the deterministic theory and not that of the parallel universes/alternate timelines theory,evidenced by the photograph Kyle gives to Sarah,as you correctly said in an older talkback.maybe even the events of the second movie are also a predetermined time-loop,if the actions of the past didnt alter the results of the future,instead they create a circle of events.
And there imho lies the difference between the two movies: the end of T2.if it was shown that it is another time-loop then we can safely agree that the universe is deterministic.But if the movie is not a time-loop then the universe is one of the unlimited parallel ones.
and here comes the difference between me and you.You treat the movie as a pure fanboy who thinks that T2 destroyed everything that his beloved T1 movie built and that Cameron is a traitor of his own work.
I am a fanboy too but i am also a lover of Cinematic Art and i always try to view all the movies not only from my POV,but also from the POV of the artist,the creator,the director.
For me Cameron didnt commit a crime for wanting to have two different movies as messages (and genres) go.He wanted his first movie to be with a dark message,that which the man can not escape from his fate regardless if its about good or evil.But as an artist,he wisely decided not to give the exact same message in his second movie,because it would be viewed more as a remake rather than a sequel.He wanted the message in T2 to be that of hope,that man can be the master of his fate.
And that decision of his,its not only artistically well-thought,but it also does not contradict the events which transpired in the two movies.I gave you the 3 reasons for that.in the first movie there is a deterministic time-loop,but there is also the hint that we control our fate,in the second movie there is the feeling that we control the fate but there is no proof of that at the end of the movie.
I dont know about you,but i am completely satisfied with what Cameron achieved with his two masterpieces.He managed to express two entirely different messages in two different movies of the same universe,without creating contradictions in the rules of this universe.And that because he masterfully let the time-travel and its nature open to our personal interpretation. -
None of the both movies,T1 and T2,seem to clearly adopt only one of the two main philosophical interpretations of time-travel: that you can change future events by your actions if you time-travel back in time,or you cant change the future because everything is already predetermined.
There are three elements which strongly support this:
1.Skynet in both movies sends back in time the two T,in order to change the past.but what is the point to do this thing,twice, if its fate is predetermined to lose the war? is Skynet stupid,desperate or is knowledgeable of time-travel's true nature?
2.In the end of T2,there is no evidence that the future has been changed by the actions of the heroes.Cameron leaves this thing vague,maybe they did it,maybe not,the answer lies open for personal interpretation.
3.the most important one,when Kyle says to Sarah:
''Thank you, Sarah, for your courage through the dark years. I can't help you with what you must soon face, except to say that the future is NOT SET. You must be stronger than you imagine you can be. You must survive, or I will never exist. '' i dont know about you,but the above doesnt sound to me that the universe in T1 is deterministic.
On the other hand we do have the time-loop in T1,which must obey to the rules of the deterministic theory and not that of the parallel universes/alternate timelines theory,evidenced by the photograph Kyle gives to Sarah,as you correctly said in an older talkback.maybe even the events of the second movie are also a predetermined time-loop,if the actions of the past didnt alter the results of the future,instead they create a circle of events.
And there imho lies the difference between the two movies: the end of T2.if it was shown that it is another time-loop then we can safely agree that the universe is deterministic.But if the movie is not a time-loop then the universe is one of the unlimited parallel ones.
and here comes the difference between me and you.You treat the movie as a pure fanboy who thinks that T2 destroyed everything that his beloved T1 movie built and that Cameron is a traitor of his own work.
I am a fanboy too but i am also a lover of Cinematic Art and i always try to view all the movies not only from my POV,but also from the POV of the artist,the creator,the director.
For me Cameron didnt commit a crime for wanting to have two different movies as messages (and genres) go.He wanted his first movie to be with a dark message,that which the man can not escape from his fate regardless if its about good or evil.But as an artist,he wisely decided not to give the exact same message in his second movie,because it would be viewed more as a remake rather than a sequel.He wanted the message in T2 to be that of hope,that man can be the master of his fate.
And that decision of his,its not only artistically well-thought,but it also does not contradict the events which transpired in the two movies.I gave you the 3 reasons for that.in the first movie there is a deterministic time-loop,but there is also the hint that we control our fate,in the second movie there is the feeling that we control the fate but there is no proof of that at the end of the movie.
I dont know about you,but i am completely satisfied with what Cameron achieved with his two masterpieces.He managed to express two entirely different messages in two different movies of the same universe,without creating contradictions in the rules of this universe.And that because he masterfully let the time-travel and its nature open to our personal interpretation. -
You do know that Cameron made Titanic right? That movie is like the ultimate Teen Machine Abortion. It's Twilight + A Boat Sinking. I will always hate Cameron for making that movie...you should kill yourselves.
-
The Terminator ABSOLUTELY says that changing the timeline is impossible. That is the entire point of the photograph of Sarah Connor. James Cameron explicitly made a point of that photograph being significant, and its significance ABSOLUTELY invalidates any notion of "there's no fate but what we make." Bullshit. The Terminator had absolutely ZERO chance of killing Sarah Connor, because IT ALREADY HAPPENED. The Terminator was ALWAYS there. Kyle Reese was ALWAYS there. John Connor was ALWAYS Kyle Reese's son, and NOTHING that happens can ever be changed. Yes, The Terminator ABSOLUTELY pointed this out very fucking clearly, and Terminator 2 simply does not make sense, when put in context with the original. Preventing Judgement Day or changing history in ANY minor way is absolutely 100% IMPOSSIBLE according to the first movie.
-
I used to be a supporter of the notion that T2 doesnt definitively say that the future was changed. However, I've changed my mind. Why? Miles Dyson. Lot's of the "changing the future" shit in T2 could otherwise be excused as the protagonists just being wrong. But one of Good Arnie's primary goals is to protect John Connor. John Connor very much puts himself into harm's way by trying to stop Sarah Connor from killing Miles Dyson. At the same time, Good Arnie has "detailed files" on Miles Dyson. Lots of time change stuff can be dismissed due to the fact that most records were lost. That's why The Original Terminator had to look Sarah Connor up in the phone book. And with all of the "original" records being lost, that makes it convenient to say that unimportant dudes getting killed doesn't change shit, since they would have died anyway. At the exact same time and place, and being killed by the exact same person. But Miles Dyson is different. They DO have detailed files on Miles Dyson. It stands to reason that Good Arnie knew that Miles Dyson was going to die that very same night by trying to blow up the the Cyberdyne facility. So...while John Connor was putting himself in harms way trying to save Miles Dyson, isn't it just a little bit ridiculous that Good Arnie never once tries to KEEP John connor out of danger by saying something like, "It is futile to save Miles Dyson. My detailed files show that he doesn't get killed by your mother, but instead dies in 3 hours by trying to destroy the Cyberdyne facility." And yes, John Connor sort of HAS to get Good Arnie to take him to save Miles Dyson, just to get Miles Dyson to destroy the Cyberdyne facility. However, this requires good Arnie to basically become functionally retarded, just to advance the plot. Good Arnie should ABSOLUTELY had files pertaining to Miles Dyson's death, and Good Arnie absolutely should have said something about this to John Connor, in order to keep John Connor from going to the Cyberdyne facility and putting himself in harms way. The fact that Good Arnie DIDN'T say a goddamn thing about this IS either extremely out of character, or provides a strong clue that the Connors actually did manage to CHANGE Dyson's fate.
-
...no more Terminator "new power" gimmicks. That played out in T2. Go back to badass nearly indestructable machines hunting human and cast Vin Deisel as the new model. That is all.
-
time-loop could not be broken? For instance if John DECIDED not to send his father to the past,would that break the time-loop yes or no?
please answer me this question before i comment on your posts. -
Because this "we're doomed" thing is just too dreary and has become a cliche.
Four Terminators come back as a bedraggled damaged group and plot stuff.
Sarah Connor and son (and cohorts) discover them and mayhem ensues!
Linda Hamilton would work well as the boss of "resistance fighters" and Edward Furlong could even return -
Arnold's new character was Kyle Reese's father?
-
if you'll excuse the hyperbole, but seriously fuck PG-13, if I ever become a filmmaker I'll make most of my movies R even when they don't need to be, Hollywood needs to bring back gratuitous nudity (which is an oxymoron in my opinion)
-
back in the day Hollywood had no problem with letting a movie be R-rated, they didn't worry about this "limited your audience" bullshit, take European Vacation for example, today that movie would be an instant PG-13 (as I'm sure any future Vacation sequels will be), but European Vacation had totally unnecessary nudity that would never be left in today, heck even the string of post-American Pie style comedies with nudity have slowly died out
-
Hollywood has downplayed violence as well, most gore and violence in movies these days is reserved for horror movies
-
The future Terminator movies are going to go the same way as anything past T2.....Straight down........down the toilet. I hate to stroke his ego, but if we are looking for a decent Terminator movie, Cameron must return.
-
Orcus must prevent the mass bannings
Readers Talkback
User Login
Top Talkbacks
- Whitney Houston 1963 - 2012 -- 439 total posts 159 posts
- WTF HOLLYWOOD: SOLARBABIES -- 144 total posts 142 posts
- Herc’s Seen Tonight’s Return Of THE WALKING DEAD!! Discuss Also DOWNTON ABBEY, FEAR FACTOR, PAN AM, ONCE, SIMPSONS, DYNAMITE, LUCK, SHAMELESS, BAIT CAR, THE GRAMMYS And More!! Sunday Is Sweeps Day 11!! -- 155 total posts 140 posts
- Avid Comic Reader Hercules Does Battle With Tedium During Kevin Smith’s COMIC BOOK MEN! -- 55 total posts 45 posts
- There's a STAR TREK video game that is going to lead into JJ's STAR TREK 2 apparently... -- 196 total posts 45 posts
- I am The Behind the Scenes Pics of the Day! No, I’m the Behind the Scenes Pic of the Day! -- 35 total posts 35 posts
- If the Behind the Scenes Pics of the Day drops her pen, pick it up, but don’t look at her legs or else it will be on your record. -- 60 total posts 34 posts
- New JUDGE DREDD post production footage pops up -- 127 total posts 32 posts
- To Commemorate The 3D Release Of STAR WARS EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE, George Lucas Wants You To Know...Greedo Shoots First!! -- 513 total posts 29 posts
- The Sensorties Revisit The Friday Docback (And Still Smell)!! DOCTOR WHO Story #7 Again, The Coming Of Season/Series 7, And More!! -- 118 total posts 27 posts