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Regarding Joss Whedon's involvement with the 'final draft' of the X-MEN script
Hey folks, Harry here and for all you fans of Joss Whedon that cheered upon hearing of his involvement in X-MEN's screenplay... Well... It seems whatever he did... didn't pass the mustard. And was either re-written over... or just wasn't really used. But Joss went over to the official Buffy board and posted about the ordeal.. so here's Angel's Girl with Joss' post...
Hi Harry
Love the site, You may already know this but i though ti'd write you anyway.
Joss Whedon was onthe official Buffy board today and posted this info re his
X-men script
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joss says:
(Sat Sep 18 15:16:47 1999 63.192.89.21)
See some X-men talk there. Wanted to let you all know that they are NOT
shooting my rewrite. There's about two pages of my stuff left in the movie
and even that's been kinda tweaked so let's get the word out to all the kids
that the movie ain't me. not even a little.
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so i thought you could get the info out ;)
hope you can use this
Angel's girl
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I can't say that I'm sorry to see Joss Whedon's re-writes aren't being used, because frankly, I'm not a big fan of his. I realize that much of his script for `Alien Resurection' was `screwed up', but I'm not too keen on his writing on BTVS (although I've only seen two episodes, both were written by him). I just hope they do a good job with the script, which I think they will, since they do not have a large effects budget.
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Sure I like Buffy but those characters are "cartoony". I would to see him write an X-men series but not the movie. He already ruined the Alien franchise with that terrible script. He claimed to be a big fan of the Alien series and yet he knew nothing about the Alien movies. He turned the alien into Freddy or Jason whose only goal was to kill people for no reason, there was none of the romanticism that James Cameron put into the Alien. In Whedon's script it more like "hmmm,this guy dies this way and that guy dies that way". And most important of all, he gets rid of the company!!! I would loved to have seen a movie that dealt with the company but now that's impossible. The "Company" was a big part of the movies and he simply washed it away. And don't even get me started on that alien/human hybrid! So pleeease keep him away from my X-men!!!!!!!!!
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It's not such a loss to what looks like to be the kick ass movie of the Summer. I mean seriously the majority of the cast seems like the good serious type with talent. This movie will be good because they've learned from such movies as Batman & Robin that story and plot are important, with character development and characterization rather than seeing how many big names you can squeeze under one title.
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JMHO, but the Alien franchise was already ruined with Alien3. AR was an attempt to reclaim the franchise. Now, it didn't succeed in that, but I could at least watch it.
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You have actors like Stewart, McKellen, and Paquin (an Oscar winner). Right there that's a good start. Then you have Tyler Mane who is an actor (well not really an actor) where a lot is not expected except to kick ass which is what he does best, fine. Then you have Stamos who will transform into other people so again no real acting required from her. You have Dougray Scott, the most controversial pick, but I think he will do a fine job. Like most people I didn't like the choice at first, I didn't know what made Singer choose him, but that was based on "Ever After" which I never watched but could assume wasn't really worth watching. I did however watch a movie reccomended by someone on this board, the name escapes me but it was made in Britain I believe. While the movie really wasn't good I was surprised that Scott's performance was like Russell Crowe's Bud White. Now most people say James Marsden is a mistake. I too am iffy on this guy at this point, but I don't think he's too young because in the comics Cyclops is between 25-28 so Marsden is fine age wise. Performance wise I'm not sure, but lets face it if Singer managed a decent perfromance from Stephen Baldwin which is a once in a million thing then I think Singer can do the same. Famke obviously was a surprise because I always thought Jean was the sensitive fragile type, but Famke is pretty tall and wouldn't fit in that category, but she isn't a bad actress either. Her performance is decent from what I've seen. Then there's Halle Berry who I'm not so sure about now after her comments about making X-Men, but Angela Basset woulld've been perfect. You also have Bruce Davison who I believe was nominated for an Oscar, and Ray Park who needs no reason because well he's cool. Then there's Singer who I believe is a serious director, and knows how to work with large casts well and include character development, and from what I've heard Chris has written one hell of a draft, if anyone has read the 2 pages online you can see that its good so far. Also Richard Donner, the man who brought Superman to the screen, acting as executive producer with his wife as producer. The costumes are also said to be Matrix style so no colorful yellow or other bright colors. Now the difference between X-Men and movies such as Batman & Robin is budget. B&R had spent well over $100 million and thought they could get away with big names and special effects, wrong. X-Men is budgeted at around $75 million which means they are forced to make a character driven story where plot matters and talent is required. Make the compariosn to "The Haunting" and "Sixth Sense". "The Haunting" was budgeted pretty high and thought hey no one will care about the story they'll be blown away by the visuals, wrong again. "The Sixth Sense" was budgeted at $40 million and was forced to focus on story. Now maybe you didn't like either of them, but from reviews and box-office its obvious that it is better. Sorry if this is long for anybody that read this, but I just wanted to make a point.
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Gee whiz, you mean the brainiac responsible for such 'classic' films as 'Speed', 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' and 'Alien Resurrection' will not be 'polishing' the X-Men script?? Thank God! How can ANYONE like the crap this guy churns out? This guy makes Kevin Williamson look like David Mamet. Whedon seems content with doing nothing but ride a wave of one gimmick after another within his screenplays. He abandons character development and interesting drama in favor of plot tricks, deus ex machinas, and 'catchy titles'. Does anyone remember his spec script from years ago... 'Suspension'? It was supposed to be the sequel to Stallone's 'Cliffhanger'. Here's the pitch: "It's Die Hard on a bridge! Isn't that COOL!" Since that initial script, all we ever get are 'hooks' and no story out of this guy. Speed: "It's Die Hard on a bus!" Buddy: "Cheerleader turns vampire killer!" Resurrection: "Ripley is cloned and crossed with an ALIEN!" All you need to do is read the titles of his films and you know he's not thinking very far beyond the 'hook' of his scripts. Now, I don't mind 'hooks' or 'gimmicks' in a script (and I actually DO like the ones he's come up with), but not at the expense of interesting characters and story! I mean sheesh! Whedon seems good with the broad strokes, but not with the details. If anything, he should do the first draft to lay the groundwork, and someone else should be brought in to REWRITE HIM! THAT might make for a good film! But as far as HIM polishing SOMEONE ELSE'S WORK??? Classic Hollywood reverse thinking! PSHAW!!!
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I know this isn't related to the X-men movie, but it is comic related... I was at a party recently at the Edinburgh Film Festival (Sean Connery was there!). So, I was talking away to some industry people who must remain anonymous, and the topic of conversation was on who to commission for a movie being touted under the auspices of "Superman Red / Superman Blue". Now, I don't know how true or how false this whole shenanigans is, but from what I gather the whole Superman Lives dying may be resurrected in some form from a recent comic (forgive me, I don't read them, I don't know). Now, it probably is all rubbish (you know what producers are like when talking to journos over a few vodkas), but wouldn't it be cool? BTW, I think one of them brought it up in reply to a "what are you up to tommorrow?" type question, so maybe there was a meeting or something? It got me thinking anyway and Matt Groening, Cate Blanchett, David Mamet and Rebecca Pidgeon etc were all in town around then. I'm not insinuating at anything about them because that would 99% be way off the mark, but if like Mamet or Groening were involved wouldn't it be great? BTW, this was about two weeks ago and the only other people I've heard talk of it were friends of mine at the party so it could all just be down to a rumour-mongerer or big-shot, although I'd rather think that someone let something slip in a drunken state. Who knows? Anyway I get the feeling you're bored reading this by now so later then.
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does no-one remember the x-men have been around for over thirty years?????????just because cyclops is meant to be mid twenties now doesn't mean he started out that way..he (like all the x-men..apart from wolverine and a couple of ntable exceptions), was a teenager. who caresa how old the actors are as long as they don't look 40. and has dougary scott been in some awful sitcom , or sunset beach out there in america or what?....ok so he's not gary oldman or robert carlyle but he's a fine actor.what have you got against him?????fair enough he is a lot taller than wolverine should be,...what do you want JEAN CLAUDE VAN DAMME,, let's face it physically he is near perfect short and musclebound.....but he can't act....
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can someone tell me why the x-men are opening against a SPIELBERG directed tom cruise starrer(written by phillip k dick no less!), a mel gibson film,and a harrison ford movie.........it's suicide......even lucas wouldn't open ep 2 against competition like that!!......are they hedging their bets with a built in excuse in case the movie tanks?........oh and the difference between the x-men budget of $80mil and batman and robins $100mil is about 40-50% of batmans budget went on actors fees. only patrick stewart gets anything like a hollywood fee.even sir ian mckellen anlle berry aren't that expensive........
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just because it looked good, and david fincher is a class director lets not forget alien 3 was terrible.....no suspense no fear.and the waste of hicks and newt just for the sake of being different and saying this is not jim cameron's movie..alien 4 was a dissapointment....but it was better than 3 and did well enough to give fox a shot at getting back on track with a fifth movie.....
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First, the Whedon thing -- frankly, I like his work on Buffy. I think it's fresh and accessible. On Alien Res, of course it wasn't as good as Scott's or Cameron's, but it was WORLD'S better that A3. On Speed, I didn't know Whedon did that (if the above poster was correct), but I thought that was one of the best movies of the year. Tense, exciting, and FUN. As far as Whedon being off the X-Men, that's too bad, but the movie still has hope. Second, AND LISTEN UP HERE FANBOYS, this WILL NOT be a character-driven movie. Not to say it's going to be bad, but I can already hear the bitching that is going to take place in these talkbacks. You're going to be pissed that the two hour movie doesn't present the same depths of character as you've been provided with from reading comics for the last ten (20? 30?) years. YOU IDIOTS! It shouldn't. The movie should have development of the central characters (in this case only THREE - Prof X, Magneto & Wolverine) and the rest should be interesting PROFILES of the other X-Men. There is NO WAY you can fuly develop the entire team w/in a 2-hour film, and you shouldn't have to. There should be good tension surrounding our THREE main characters (who cares about Marsden, I like Cyclops but he won't be a principal character in this movie, even if he is the leader of the team), there should be a couple of good mutant fights scenes, and there should be a solid story that makes us care how it will end. Singer will deliver all three of those things. And it will be fun. And that's what it's supposed to be. But you people will bitch all summer about "the movie that could've been." Do us a favor, be thankful that the movie got made at all and isn't in limbo like the GREATEST potential Marvel movie - SpiderMan (natch!). Cap out...
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AKA; Yes, there was a Superman Red/Superman Blue storyline that lasted about a year or so in all of the Superman titles. The basic plot of that storyline was that Superman lost his powers, and was split into two forms. Red, and Blue. His powers, however, were strange. I don't know about them exactly (because I didn't read that particular storyline), but I think they were solar powered (in an odd way). He travelled like electricity. It was weird, and every fan hated it (which is why I completely skipped that whole saga). Unless you were referring to the X-Men being a comic, then, yes to that too. I don't know about anyone else, but I think the best way to view any - and all - news regarding the X-Men is to look at it as if there *is no comic*. If you look at it from this perspective, you'll see your expectations won't be as high. You won't be expecting 30+ years of continuity in a 2+hour film (as I was originally before I thought of it this way). It helps in taking some of that frustration off when thinking they may butcher the X-Men. When it hits the big screen, it will no longer be `that great comic book team of mutant anti-heores', and will become `a comic book movie about team work'. A few weeks ago, there was a story posted on AICN that described various scenes in the film (for one of the seen scripts), but, one of the scenes revealed was that Cyclops discovers his optic-powers at his 10 year high school reunion (at least, if I remember correctly.). Now, forgetting the fact that his powers were to manifest at puberty, my hopes are that they changed this scene around a little, or made a completely different origin because, frankly, Marsden is too young (looking, at least) to be going through a 10 year high school reunion. Otherwise, I have no problems with the cast and trust in Singer's ability to direct. Now, I admit I may be wrong, so, does anyone know exactly how old Marsden is?
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Hey Harry, Couldn't resist picking my favorite nit. Unless you're making a sandwich, it's not "didn't pass the mustard" instead it's "didn't pass muster."
Hmmm...now I'm all hungry.
--Fred4Sure -
What is it when someone mixes two sayings? Like Pass Muster/Cut the Mustard into Pass Mustard (sounds like a diarrheic hot-dog-eater)?
Is it a Malaprop? Mondegreen? I forget. -
I used to think Alien 3 was not only a dreadful blight on the Alien franchise, but one of the worst movies ever made. The travesty that was Alien: Resurrection, though, drastically altered my opinion. In retrospect, Alien 3 (or cubed, or whatever) was a pretty decent flick. It was nowhere near as exciting as the second one, but had a lot of the same ponderous, doom-laden atmosphere that made Ridley Scott's original so haunting. Resurrection was just goofy. It's like Scott did the scary one, Cameron did the cool one, Fincher did the arty one, and Jeunet did the wacky one. I loved City of Lost Children, but that guy should have kept his French sense of humor the hell away from Alien. And that creature at the end- what the fuck was up with THAT? I'm mystified that so many of you liked it better than 3.
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i must be one of the only persons who likes alien 3...
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Joss Whedon is the best, sharpest, and most original writer working today. I'm really bummed his X-Men script isn't goin to be used. Imagine how amazing that would be. The perfect blend of Buffy-style wit and Alien Resurection style, well, badassness. Arggg...I'm starting to lose faith that Singer knows what he's doing. Yes, Usual Suspects is a GOOD movie, but Apt Pupil was mediocre, and I'm not prepared to say this movie is going to be good simply because of him. Hooking Stewart and McKellan is a good sign, but after the James Marsden news...I'm suspicious. All it would take is the writer of Toy Story and creator of Buffy writing the script to renew my pdyched-ness for this movie...but now I'm not so sure.
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How can Ray Parks (Darth Maul) play Toad- the midget X-Men villian who just jumps around all the friggin' time.
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In all fairness to Whedon, the original screenplay for SPEED was written by Graham Yost. It's pretty much accepted that Whedon saved that film with a very extensive re-write (try to find a copy of Yost's draft. It's awful!) In fact, Whedon is one of the industry's most valued script doctors. He may not be Mamet, but he does have a knack for storytelling.
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some movies you watch for style, some you watch for substance. then sometimes, there's the flicks that have both. scorsese films usually have both. james cameron's usually fall on the style side, but there is a reason that most of them have an over-2 hour running time...there's a story there. "speed" is a straight action flick. you watch films like that for their style. even "die hard" was mostly about stringing action setpieces together. the difference between "speed" and "die hard," though, is that die hard showed the characters' motivations and feelings--"speed" was just style. but i like speed and accept the flick for what it is: a well-crafted action movie without a lot of brains. whedon: i like the buffy movie for its strange off-kilter feel. i hate the show. the alien series...i love every single film on its own merits. #1 is the original, and has some tense moments. #2 pleases me the most for the terror of facing hordes of these creatures. #3 and #4 i appreciate for the style that was brought to them. #3 is dark and sinister. at first i panned it because all it seemed like was an excuse for grown men to run around and curse and die. i think ripley's death was a cop-out, and was cloning her for #4. #4 brings a european aesthetic and the action setpieces are fantastic (ron perlman flipping backward on the ladder? the aliens killing one of their own to escape? dan hedaya looking at his brain?). i'm rambling. the point is: sometimes you just have to accept a movie for what it is. my mom loves meg ryan comedies, i hate them. she can't stand stuff like "pulp fiction," but it's my favorite film. sometimes film is a matter of taste. somewhere, i'm sure someone liked the new version of "night of the living dead." who knows. i'm sure there's room in an institution for them somewhere.
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Harry, this site was a god send. You opened a forum where anyone could discuss their favorite movies, upcoming movies, etc. Then THEY happened. THEY are the idiots. THEY are the people who will lambaste what I am writing. THEY are the ones that turn every god-damn talk back into something that it was never intended. THEY, simply have no idea what makes a movie a film, a movie a movie, and a movie bad. Granted, THEY are inevitable. THEY take various forms (in this case, people with a lack of fortitude to back their empty words). THEY pan movies, claiming to be experts, and the result being: some great movies get passed on in the theaters. Yep, Harry, your little site has a lot of pull. But for some reason people would rather air out their inadequacies than admit this project has their attention (more often for good than bad).
Apt Pupil, for example, while not as flashy as Singer's other flick is really well-made. Singer isn't a moron. Watch what he does with King's novella. It does what Singer wants it to do. It pulls at you, makes you squirm. It's extremely well-done. Face it people, the guy paid his dues and is going to make a four-color funny book that a lot of us hold dear into a movie. He's done his homeworkon this project. He obviously made a great pitch for this project. That's why he's directing. He's good, so just shut up. -
I agree with SpellChecker... I think that Joss should come in and lay down the foundation and have someone else come in and rewrite him. I have grow to love Buffy the T.V. series... but there's some stuff in the show that he totally forgets... he's a high concept guy.. kinda like Chris Carter.By the way you can do 30 plus years of history in a 2 plus movie.. it's been done before...I am keeping hope that this film is good.
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I agree with SpellChecker... I think that Joss should come in and lay down the foundation and have someone else come in and rewrite him. I have grow to love Buffy the T.V. series... but there's some stuff in the show that he totally forgets... he's a high concept guy.. kinda like Chris Carter.By the way you can do 30 plus years of history in a 2 plus movie.. it's been done before...I am keeping hope that this film is good.
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I agree with SpellChecker... I think that Joss should come in and lay down the foundation and have someone else come in and rewrite him. I have grow to love Buffy the T.V. series... but there's some stuff in the show that he totally forgets... he's a high concept guy.. kinda like Chris Carter.By the way you can do 30 plus years of history in a 2 plus movie.. it's been done before...I am keeping hope that this film is good.
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Hey, how can gary Sinise play Lt. Dan? Gary Sinise has legs?!? Being pretentious rules!
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They are both from Fox. MR, if it ever gets made, was to open the weekend X-Men is now opening in June. MR will instead take spot originally meant for X-Men which was a Holiday Y2K opening. They essentially switched spots. What Lies beneath opens nowhere near X-Men. The Patriot is the only flick set to open against X-Men but trust me if it stays there it WILL come in 2nd. American History will not beat out a comic book movie at the box office, Mel or no Mel. Bet your ass Patriot moves its opening down a weekend to the July 4th slot. More appropriate for it anyway.
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here's a quote from infoseek movie news.yes they have switched the opening of minority report but do you honestly think MEL Gibson, and Harrison ford can't open ............................."That's some confidence when you see what the film's up against. X-Men will be battling George Clooney and Mark Wahlberg in Perfect Storm and tussling with Mel Gibson's The Patriot. What's a movie fan to do?
But wait, we also have What Lies Beneath with Harrison Ford. Now which one would you choose?
If you want foxy females, then X-Men -
Even if all the X-Men comic readers see the movie, that's only a shade over 100,000 people. That's a bomb right there. I don't think the cast has enough pull to bring people in. Maybe Stewart can bring in some Trekkies, but otherwise, it's not a big drawing group. This movie isn't like Batman or Superman. The majority of people out there have never heard of the X-Men. And I don't see a reason (yet) for people to want to see this.
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The scene is at the high school _prom_ not the ten year reunion. That's why they were smoking weed!
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After reading the postings of the last few months I must say that I'm a little disappointed in my fellow X-fans. Instead of discussing actors we'd like and sharing news there have been bitter squabbles, celebrity outings and debates as to whether X-Men is a "gay movie" (!?) What the hell is going on! As for the casting, I'm thrilled no end to have Patrick Stewart and Sir Ian McKellen on board. This version of the script has Storm and I have always seen Iman in the role but I know that by Hollywood standards she's considered too old so we'll have a less-statuesque weather goddess. I don't know if this script includes Colossus but Dolph Lundgren would kick ass as the literal man-of-steel. Of course, by the Hollywood calendar, he would also be too old for the role. The script I've seen hawked on the street here in NY includes Rogue and Wolverine as well as the original five. (I think Ashley Judd would be PERFECT as Rogue and there's a short, hairy Polish wrestler who is the spitting image of Logan, but hey, it's not my movie) While we would all like to see certain actors in X-Men maybe we should have a bit of faith in Bryan Singer. On 7/20 Deltahead stated that the driving force should be characterization or we'd end up with another fiasco like "Batman and Robin". I agree. The glue that holds the X-Men together is the continuous love and support they offer each other in spite of their outcast status. The big battles just happen as they fight to protect their dream of peaceful co-existence.
What it basically comes down to is the characters. For the movie to do well it has to pack the seats with X-fans and moviegoers alike. Like Superman1 wrote on 9/19, it's like the difference between "The Haunting" and "The Sixth Sense". The special effects didn't save "The Haunting" and "The Sixth Sense", with it's more modest budget, is still in the Top Ten simply due its being an awesome story that any moviegoer can enjoy; in case no one has noticed, that's Bryan Singer's fort -
How is this movie going to launch in time for it's June 30th debute. It generally takes 6 months of principle photography and 6 - 8 months of post-production. That would extend past the June 2000 deadline. It sounds like most of that 75 million dollar budget will be spent on paying blurry-eye cgi artists overtime to finish the film ontime.
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As many concerns as I have about the direction and casting of this film, I have even greater concerns about the script. Has anyone even considered letting Chris Claremont and/or John Byrne write the script? The real point is that this story is already written, and merely needs to be adapted. To X-Men fans it is important how the story unfolds, and there are moments that no fan would want to lose from this story in the long run. Ororo shopping for clothes and saying, "I am never cold" in her cool, smooth way. Scott and Jean on a mountain and her turning off his eye beams so they can kiss without his glasses on, and what that told us about the ever-increasing power of Phoenix. I'd love to see that whole scene at the carnival. Wolverine busting loose and having to snap Jean out of her hypnotized personality by slapping her, then her blasting him and calling him a "little man" and telling him never to touch her like that again. The animated show got lots of things about Wolverine wrong. They had him calling someone else "little man" like it's a generic insult, completely missing the point that he's a short guy. They made the claws go "shing!" instead of "snikt!" like big switchblades. I often get the feeling that the people who adapt these stories don't even bother to have a copy of the comics on hand. If that trend continues, we'll NEVER have a good adaption of a comic into a film. The influence of a pre-existing fan base CAN and WILL have an influence on ticket sales. Unfortunately, with X-Men we may see the Episode One effect. No matter how bad it is, it could be so eagerly anticipated that everyone will go see it anyway.
It's also just wonderful that some people on this forum, rather than talking about the film, just want to bitch about the opinions of others on the forum are different from theirs. I, personally, did enjoy the new version of The Night of the Living Dead. Tom Savini did a great job on it. Patricia Tallman was good in it, too. Don't like my opinion? Tough. I guess I'm just hung up on this "free will" and "free thought" concept.
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Just as a side note, most of the X-Men books circulate between 600 and 800 thousand (600,000-800,000) issues per month, and this is only the people currently reading the book, not those who read it 10 years ago and would still love to see it as a movie.
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Seriously. X-Men #1 is the most popular comic of all time--it sold 8.1 million copies, for cryin' out loud. Surely those people will be interested in seeing the movie, and if the trailer seems promising, they'll go. And that's just the collectors.
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